The Ramsey Show - If You Don’t Follow Through on a Plan You’re Going To Lose

Episode Date: June 5, 2024

💵 Sign-up for EveryDollar today - The simplest way to budget for your life! Jade Warshaw & Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss: "How do I explain why I was fired from a job?" "What's the best way to buy a car?" "We have buyer's remorse about our home," "Am I wrong for questioning our marriage?" "Should my husband buy his dream car for $150k?" "I have no debt but I'm still worried about money," Support Our Sponsors: NetSuite BetterHelp Zander Insurance Health Trust Financial Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 📖 Beat debt and build wealth with the new The Total Money Makeover Updated and Expanded 20th Anniversary Edition! 🏠 Find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome aboard. We are here to help you win in your life, win with your money, win in your work, and win in your work, and win in your relationships. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is joining me, and we are here to give you some hope through practical answers to the problems you're dealing with. Jade's our financial expert. I'll weigh in, and I'm your work expert. You want more income. You feel like there's some

opportunities to make more income. You want to take steps to do that. I want to help you navigate that as well. She'll jump in on that. So that's what we do. Why do we do it? Because we are coaches and we want you to win. Let's go. Let's get started. Let's go to New York City, New York. The Big Apple. Grant is on the line. Grant, how can we help? I'm doing all right, Ken. How are you? Good. What's happening today? So last week on Friday, I lost my job. I was going through, it was a second time I was late on the clock. My manager surprised me at work and it unfortunately turned into a termination. I've since come and spoke with my parents about this and they're very supportive, but I'm concerned about how do I explain this to future employers in different interviews

Yeah, well the truth shall set you free and I think that you've got to learn from this and I think one of the ways to learn from this is to own it and go this is what happened and treat it as though this were testimony in the court, that you were being recorded because, you know, you need to understand it's very possible that

future employers are going to call this boss or check your references. And so I want to look at somebody who can say, you know what, I showed up late. It was my second time. And here's what I've learned from that. And I learned that this is a weakness. And man, did I learn my lesson, you know, because I read biographies all the time of some of the most respected people in the world, women, men. And what I find fascinating when I read these biographies, Jade, is that they share a lot of the stuff they did wrong. And I don't close the book and go, well, that's it, Stacey. I'm in chapter three and I just found out that so-and-so did something dumb. I got to get a new biography where only the people that do great stuff. I mean, I'm sitting next to a very, very successful lady who your whole line all the time

is how much debt you got into and then paid it off. So Grant, I don't think this is anything to be cute with. I think you own it if they ask. Now, let me just say this, and I want Jay to weigh in here too. I wouldn't bring it up, but if they bring it up, you own it. And you say, I'm growing up because of this, and here's what I learned. Here's some things I'm doing in my life to make sure that never happens again. I think the only way to overcome this is to absolutely humbly and violently, what I mean by violent is just go, this is what I did wrong. And it woke me up and now here's what I'm doing. And I am embarrassed by it, but I'll tell you what, I'm never going to be late for a job again. And I think that's

refreshing to people. Jade, what would you add to that? I do too. Not much other than the fact that the quicker you make peace with this and the quicker that you accept it and move on, the more confidently, to Ken's point, that you'll be able to talk about it. And it won't feel so much like a negative as a lesson learned and a piece of wisdom that you gained from it. So what do you think about that? Is there something else we need to know? Or is this just straight up, this happened twice, your boss didn't like it, and it was done? The way the job worked, it was hourly, and I clocked in on company time, and it was just a matter of time theft, I fully admit,

and totally own up to everything. Would I lead off in these interviews with, if they ever mention it, I got laid off off or should I just like you said fully and violently take on the responsibility of what I did? Well you do that but the point is when you show up for the job interview you don't go hey I'm here at this job interview because

I was late twice and got fired we don't need to lead off with stupid but we're not going to hide from stupid so I wouldn't bring it up until it's brought up hey why are you here why'd you leave your last job? You go, well, unfortunately, I made a real bad mistake and I was irresponsible and I was immature. And here's what I did. I think that freaked some people out that you didn't make any excuse at all. That's so rare in the world.

Yeah. I think it makes you look really great, Grant. So own it, be okay with it, and I'm really proud of you just for making this phone call. I really am. I called on Friday when it happened, and I felt like I had nobody to go to, and I had seen the Renji Show clips on TikTok, and I was like, man, I could use a guy like that right now because I didn't think my parents or the people that I love in my life would respond well to this. They did. First people I talked to, no, they did. They did. First people I talked to were them. I was most afraid to tell them and, you know,

it turned out they were the best people to reach out to. Yeah. Well, listen, brother, I struggle with being late to this day. It's one of my biggest weaknesses. I get highly distracted. And so to this day, I have to come up with systems and things and I still struggle with it I get so easily distracted so you know owning these kind of things and is is the best way to get through them really proud of you thanks for calling straight from TikTok to the Ramsey show love it who was on Friday uh I was on Friday I think I don't think I could tell you I can't remember what day of the week it is right now, much less where I was Friday. All right, never mind. Laura is joining us now in Syracuse, New York.

Laura, I know that I'm here today, and Jade is as well. How can we help? Hi. So after five years, we are in baby step three. My primary vehicle is going to need about as much work as it's worth, so I'm looking to trade up a little bit. By September, I plan to have about $9,000, and my primary vehicle is worth about $3,000. I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. I also have a van worth about $2,000, and we feel like we need a bigger vehicle for hauling because we live out in the country. And I don't know if I should trade in both of these vehicles.

I don't want to go back into debt. Are you planning to trade the car in to get a van? Like, could you trade in and just get something that's got more capacity? I do have an SUV right now. I have an SUV and a van that I could trade both of them in. I could keep the van and move to a smaller vehicle. Or I could just drive the van, but the van's not in great shape either. Okay. So let's go back to the 9,000. Is that on top of your emergency fund? Is that additional money? No, that includes, that's all we have. That will be all we have.

That is the emergency fund. Yeah, we just started Baby Step 3. Okay. So you got two cars that are worth $5,000? Did I hear that right? Yeah. Okay. You know, what I- And then my husband has a vehicle. What's his vehicle situation?

His is paid off. It's worth about $20,000. Okay. He has a sedan. So I don't think you need three vehicles. I mean, if the hauling is for work, maybe you just trade into something where it can be your daily driver and you can haul the things that you need. You've got $5,000 to spend because I would sell them both in order to do this. And maybe look and see what you can find for $8,000

and take three of this and see if you can make it work. If it takes a little bit more, it takes a little bit more. You said that the car you're driving now, it's worth $3,000 and it's going to cost $3,000 to fix it. Is that where you're at? Yes. Okay. I'm doing that.

I'm doing that so far, the mechanic said. So I do have some time to figure out what to do here. Yeah, but you said by September, you'll have $9,000. And so, yeah, I would do that. I would spend as little as possible because I don't totally want you to deplete this emergency fund. But yeah, so both take the $5,000, maybe put three or four with it and make it happen. Yeah, good advice there. What do you think about putting three in it if the thing would actually run for a while after the three?

That would be the only other question I'd ask the mechanic. I probably wouldn't because I guarantee she's put more than that in it over the years. All right. Good. So I'd probably cut my losses at this point. Okay. All right. Wow. Talk and shop with Jade Warshaw. Talk and shop. I need to get you one of those mechanic outfits with your name on the tag. That would be pretty cool. You get rocked out with some of your cool nighties. All right, quick commercial break. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show.

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She is Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman, and we are here for you here on The Ramsey Show. We want you to win in life. We're going to help you win with your money, in your relationships, in your work. Those three areas are very, very important. They're all connected. We want to help you win. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225. All right, selling a house, buying a house. It's a lot of energy going in there. It can cause a lot of indigestion. There's a Ramsey way to make home ownership a blessing. The Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find an agent you can

trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey and get the best offer in your house or find the right house for you. So these are men and women that we trust. And they've got years of experience in helping people make wise decisions from pricing, marketing, making, and choosing the right offer. How do you find them? RamseySolutions.com slash agent. RamseySolutions.com slash agent. All right, Jade, as our resident money expert on the show today, you're looking at the market. You're looking at the economy.

What's your advice to people that are biting their nails about listening or buying? I think that we're in a very crazy roller coaster of a time when it comes to these markets. And I think that prices of real estate along with interest rates has got people feeling some type of way, rightfully so. And I think that we have to be really careful that we don't move into a state of desperation because you know how it goes. Can you get desperate? Next thing you know, you're doing something real, real stupid. And we're starting to see that. George and I were talking about it the other day. We're seeing an increase in adjustable rate mortgages that just popping out like a 15% increase over the last two to three weeks, which is crazy. We're seeing people look at 40-year mortgage loans. We're seeing zero down mortgage loans. And so I'm like, hey, lest we forget the Great Recession, let's not go back to that way of thinking. And can you know

this? A lot of people think we're in a recession right now. We're not. The numbers don't point to that. But you know how it is. If you perceive that, you know, your behavior kind of starts to follow. So a lot of people are going, okay, things are bad. Like what should I be doing? And it's a little bit of a scramble right now, I think. And you just kind of have to slow, slow down, slow your roll and go, okay, if I have to rent a little longer, that's okay. I'm not going to feel forced into something that I can't afford. I'm not going to make a into something that I can't afford. I'm not going to make a bad decision with the thought that later I can just refinance or later there'll be an opportunity for me to get out of this, you know, kind of subprime situation because that's what I'm calling them.

Yeah. Calling a spade a spade on that. But anyway. Yeah, it's good stuff. All right. Let's go to Grand Rapids, Michigan next. Renee is there. Renee, how can we help?

Hi. Yes, it's a pleasure to talk to you guys. Super excited. But I have a doozy of a question for you. Oh, we like the doozies. I like a doozy. All right. So my husband and I have lived in our current house. We bought it. It actually burned down a month later. Oh, whoa. And yeah, so we have like a brand new home. We've been living in it for nine, eight years now because it was built. So, and we only owe about $50,000 left and we could pay it off tomorrow. Okay, but? But for the last four years, we've been looking to move because I run a business out of my home.

And that is growing. That is booming. And we have three children. We would possibly love to add another. And so we purchased a home about two months ago. Just got possession of it for quite a bit more money. Okay. House number two. Plus a higher interest rate.

Okay. What'd you spend? And my husband, $585,000. Okay. And my husband officially has extreme buyer's remorse and doesn't want to move into it and doesn't want, he wants to sell it. What caused that extreme buyer's remorse affordability uh no we can afford it i think it's high interest rates

um economy he wants to be he's like we were shooting ourselves in the foot we could have been debt free um you know yeah what's the other worth, the one you're actually living in? Because it burned around $400,000. So why can't you sell that and take home $300,000 and put it towards this $585,000 mortgage? Because he's like, we're still going into debt and he loves the house that we're in he's like it works perfectly so he went from one extreme to the other why did you buy the new one if the other one works perfectly why did he buy the current the new one yeah so that's the whole thing like we're on this two months of roller coaster and now the option is either we sell it and we lose at minimum around $50,000. Yeah.

Yeah. If you sell it right now, there's probably going to be a loss. What'd you put down on it? Oh, yeah. What'd you put down to get it? I think 10% in knowing that we were going to sell this one. Okay. You guys have to follow through on a plan here because the longer that you kind of go back and forth on this, you're losing money because you still have your first

home mortgage payment, even though you only owe $50,000. And now this one is right behind it. We're paying two mortgage payments as of Saturday. Yeah. Okay. So that right there is the motivation. You guys are in a hot pot and it's getting ready to boil. So you've got to decide what you're going to do. If I'm in your shoes, the logical thing to do, if you don't want to take a loss, is to stick with the house that you... He's okay with taking a loss because he claims that it needs updating. The new house needs updating and the current house we have

is 100% the way we like it. And he claims that he has to put time, energy, and effort into it. What do you think? Yeah, what do you think? Because he's the one that's gone back and forth and you seem to have been steady. So what do you think?

He wants to sell it. No, what do you think, Mama? 100%. Mama so what do you think he wants to sell it no what do you think mama mama what do you think um it would work perfect for us i mean no house is perfect for our needs are you saying the new house would work perfect they both work perfect but i we work so hard for our money that it's hard to lose 50 grand right off the top yeah it is in commissions and fees yeah i boy i wish he was on the phone because i'd love to talk to him dude to dude um honestly he's he's got some type of emotional fear or something that is yeah i think like the house fire really damaged him because we put our life savings

into this house and it burned before our eyes. So I think there is some PTSD with it. But he was excited about this a couple weeks ago, right? Or a couple months ago. He was. I mean, he's been looking for like four years for a new house. I would tell him. He put an offer in

on five houses. Alright, I'm going to get out of the way and let Jay take it, but I got to spit this out. Spit it out, Ken. Okay, and you can show him this on YouTube if he doesn't believe you. You can tell him that you called the show and that Ken, the dude over here, got all up in arms and told you, and I'm telling him, you need to man up, dude,

and stop being an emotional roller coaster here. A month ago or two months ago or two weeks ago, you were all in on this, and this is the dumbest of dumb taxes if you back out of this deal and take an unnecessary loss. Move forward, sell the house, the old house, and just man up here. But even if we take a loss, we can be debt-free here. Even if we take a loss, we can be debt-free here. You would say it's more worth it to move there at a 6% interest rate for $585,000 and have to put money into it. It's a different discussion. You're trying to change the discussion on me. I'll say this. No, this is his argument. I don't care what his argument is. Based off of what you told us when you set this whole thing up, you're like, hey, we're thinking of growing the family.

I got the business thing going on. For me, just looking at this and, you know, I'm a numbers person. Like I like people debt free. I like there's nothing wrong affordability wise with you guys upgrading home. There's nothing wrong with that. What I think happened because there was nothing impulsive about this purchase. You said you've been looking for years and years and years. I think you're right. I think your husband had a little T trauma moment and he's processing through that.

I think you have the most clarity of both of you. If I were in your shoes, I would keep the $585,000 house. I would sell your current, the number one mortgage. I would pocket, you know, 300 from it, 320., I would sell your current, the number one mortgage. I would pocket 300 from it, 320. And I would immediately put that down on the $585,000 mortgage and shrink it back. Sounds like you guys have a fine income if you were able to float both of these mortgages and pay it off as quickly as possible. You'll be free again. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Renee, you're still moving forward. He needs to understand if he reneges on this and sells this new house, he's basically setting fire to $50,000 or more. That's what I would. I'd play to his emotion on that. That's right. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is the season for Halloween.

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888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225. Your money questions, of course. Jade's here to help on that. And then how about making more money? What are some things that are holding you back or some things that you can do to make more income? Consider me your work coach, your income coach. I'm here to help out on those matters as well.

All right, today's question, Jade, comes from Anthony in California. I'll read it to you. I got married three years ago with a prenup. My wife is a pharmacist. She makes around $200,000 a year. I'm a teacher bringing home $80,000 a year. She owned a home before we got married that's worth $900,000. I know that the house is not mine, and I have no rights to it.

I contribute $1,700 a month to household expenses, plus $500 out of my check a month for health insurance. I'm not building any equity. I asked my wife if she'd be willing to sell her house. I can't wait for you to answer this and buy a smaller house together. She said she's not willing to give up her house to make me feel better about myself. Am I wrong for questioning our marriage? Oh my goodness. can i get a bag of popcorn before you dive into this i mean i'm just whoa a lot to break down there um this there's so much circulating around like value and worth of the person based off of the money and the assets that

they have um i mean obviously she's the one that made you sign the prenup. And my guess is, is it assumed that the prenup meant that he doesn't have the house? Yeah. That she retains full ownership? I'll bet you that's what that means. Yeah, I mean, I think so. I mean, she's the one that, I mean, I'm not making judgment calls here. I'm just reading what the paper says.

She's the one that makes more money. She's the one that owns more money um she's the one that owns the house worth 900 000 and she also knows who she's married to and i mean the dude straight up says i have no rights to the house so that's what i'm reading wow there's a lot there's a lot of issues here in many ways it's almost like she wanted to separate themselves going into this and because she felt obviously hey he can't contribute financially in a way that i can and then but there's still like this expectation that he should be maybe contributing more i'm like this guy's a teacher what do you want and then when he comes along and says hey is there a way that we can just lower the temperature on our spending

through this house she's like no like go fly a kite so i this for me is yeah you should be questioning the marriage here and uh if i'm you i'm jumping into counseling immediately yeah okay we'll get to the call quick here but i want to ask you a step further okay what's your you're coaching him okay okay and her yeah what do you tell them that they need to dig into in therapy she thinks she's better than him okay yeah she views her like i'm like just calling a spade a spade she's up here and he's kind of down here and it's all because of financial status there it is i'm sorry i like it judge jade has ruled just slam the gavel there it is. I'm sorry. I like it. Judge Jade has ruled. Just slam the gavel. There it is.

I like it. All right, let's get back to the phones. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Aiden is going to join us now in Colorado Springs. Aiden, how can we help? Hi. So I'm basically wondering whether or not I should be going to college or working full-time. Love it.

I love these moments in life. This is so fun. Okay, so let's walk through a two-part question, okay? The questions are, is a degree, college, the only way to get where you want to go, Aiden, or is a college degree the best way to get where you want to go, Aiden, or is a college degree the best way to get where you want to go? And that would imply that you kind of have an idea where you want to go, so let's start there. Do you have an idea which direction you want to go professionally? Not so much professionally. I do know that, so right now I'm 18, and I do know that 10 years from now I want to like own my own business and be, you know,

uh, like kind of free financially free with the business. And, um, I know that I, if I went to college, it'd be for mechanical engineering. And I know that that's a good career, but if I worked full time and started my own business, you know, that could pan out as well. So I'm not great. That's kind of what I'm hung up on, on whether or not what I should do. Yeah. All right. Let me ask a couple other questions. Are you getting any pressure, whether it be positive or not from parents, friends, teachers, whatever you get, any pressure to go to college or is it you feeling like hey i've i've got some freedom here to make this call emotionally um there there's definitely pressure

um from uh friends and family to go to college because um like i'm a smart kid i have a 3.8 gpa and but uh i also have a little one i have daughter, so I'm trying to make the best decision financially as well, because I know that going to college for four years is four years that I could be working. Right. What is the situation with the mother of the child? What's the relationship? What's custody? Give us some sort of a picture of this um there's no legal stuff in it but we're we're not together so so but i mean is there not is there not child support um no there's there's nothing like that now okay but you want to contribute and help out yes okay um okay let's put that aside for a second. Okay. If no one was going to judge and nobody had an opinion, it was just you and your own little private Aiden world.

What's the answer to this question? Do you want to go to college or do you want to go to work now? What's the answer? Realistically, it's probably go to work, start a business. I just, there's a part of me that weighs down because I have friends who like would want to go to college because most of my tuition is paid for by the college. And I just, I feel like it's like a smack in the face to other people that don't get that opportunity. I love that response. I think you're being honest, but let me push a little bit more. If you weren't worried about the guilt and we remove the guilt, I think the answer is you want to go work and work right now and try to figure out what your path is to owning a business. That's

what I think you want to do, not what you think you should do. Am I right? Yes. to owning a business. That's what I think you want to do, not what you think you should do. Am I right? Yeah. All right. Can I jump one side into this? Because on the one hand, I agree with Ken, and I think that you're kind of struggling with just the norm. The norm is you graduate, you go to college, and then you go get a job, right? That seems like that's kind of been the normal way that things play out with the people and the people around you, which I understand and i think that's playing a big part in you feeling some type of way about possibly choosing not to go to college however i want to know more about this business thing because i also do feel like uh when it comes to college there's a lot of asset like there's a lot of aspects of it a

there's the educational side b there's the side where you just kind of grow up and you become an adult and you learn how to deal with folks and make friends. And there's this, you know, there's a lot to it. And then there's this part that kind of buys you time where you're figuring out really what you want to do with the skills that you have. And if you have the opportunity to do that for free, it could be helpful, especially if you know you want to do a business, but you don't know exactly what that means and what that shakes out let me give the converse to that okay because i have mad respect for my colleague aiden but i think you should take at least a gap year so because we're running out of time i want to tell you i think right now you should take one year 12 months and go work with this goal in mind and i'm going to give you my best-selling book

called the proximity principle and i want you to actually use this in this next 12 months. This would be my advice. I'm going to let Jade have the last word. Hey, you're the expert. Well, no, no. I just think I'd like you to take 12 months to actually go work and make some money. And with the goal of getting to know as many people in different types of trades or businesses that you might eventually be interested in. It gives you a year to, he could go right back to college and do what you're saying. That's right. He could, like college isn't going anywhere. The scholarships aren't going anywhere, Aiden. But I'd love for you to just test this baby out. I think a gap year is brilliant for you because I think you're responsible. I think it allows you to stack

some cash, but I want you maybe working two or three or four different jobs in that 12 months. I'm not mad at that. To get some experience for one reason. Can I figure out what type of business that I want to be in? I know that mechanical engineering is an area of giftedness, talent, and I know I could use that in a lot of different businesses. I think that's what I would do if I were you. And I think that'll take the pressure off of you with your family and friends to go, I'm not punting on college right now. I'm just going to try this. What do you think about that? I'm with you 100%. And save some money, give some money to the baby, mama, whatever.

You know, I get that too. I'm with you. I like it. Thanks for the call, Aiden. I know this, you're going to win, my friend. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of all that grief, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops

among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is with you this hour. We are here for you, 888-825-5225. We're going to focus on helping you reduce debt, save that money, invest that money, and make more money. How about that? That's what we're here to do today. Tracy is going to join us now in Columbus, Ohio.

Tracy, how can we help? Hi. I'm calling because our son is a 19-year-old service member, and he'll be home on leave in a month. And he is asking us while he's home if he should do something different with his money or leave it sit in the low-interest savings account that he has it going to. And we've really only invested in 401Ks. We haven't done any outside investments.

So we're not really sure what direction to send him. He saved up a pretty good amount of money during high school working before committing to the service. And he has, like, slightly less than three years remaining so he has some time to do something to earn some interest or something back and I just was wondering like what direction you would suggest he go. How much money is it? He has about $55,000. $55,000? Mm-hmm. Okay. And how old is he? 19. Okay.

So $19,000, $55,000. Go ahead. What is his salary? He's in the service. He doesn't make a lot of money. He's in the military. I know, but he still makes money. All through, well, I think probably, I mean, it's a private, so it's probably roughly around $30 something.

But most of this money was just like during all of his high school years. Like he's a penny pincher, so every penny, every dollar he made, he saved. And so I would say he probably had roughly about 40 before he even went in. So, and then, you know, I said to him when we saw him a couple weeks ago, it just seems sad that the money is sitting in a savings account. And he's like, I don't, do you guys know what I should do with that? And I don that? I'm not sad. It's not sad that it's sitting in a savings account. I mean, if it's just sitting in your old run-of-the-mill savings account, it might not have a great rate of return.

So at the very least, I'd make sure it's in a high yield. And they're really popping off right now. I've seen them as high as 5.3. Matter of fact, an article came up the other day talking about some of them. I know that Laurel Road, James, that's doing 5.1%. I'm not sure about the percentage, but I think that's the one. Yeah, it's over five. George and I were talking about it. George endorses them. Yeah. So if you want to check them out and just put it in a place where it's making a decent rate of return, because to your point, in three years,

he's going to be out of the service and he's probably going to be looking for a place to stay. So there's rent and I don't know what his vehicle situation is. And so he's going to have some expenses coming up where it's going to be nice to have some liquid cash. And if he can make some money on that in the meantime, then I'm not mad at that. Is he investing any of his income right now? No. The military does do like a 401k now which they didn't do years before so he does he does

partake in that but i i would i would probably honestly think it's not going to be a career for him i think it's just like you know just said love of country wanted to do his time and he'll probably do you know his time and just get out um which is why he wanted to make sure he saved all he could. But I didn't know, like, if a CD or something like that would be in his best interest. What about Baby Step 4? Yeah, I mean. Are you familiar with our Baby Steps? I have not followed the Baby Steps.

We are like, my husband and I are, I mean, we just, we haven't been investors. Okay. So Jay should walk you through this. This will be fun. Here's what we would say. First off, no, no to a CD. There's no benefit of doing that. There's a lot of better options. Like I said, high yield savings account. If you go the savings route, high yield savings account, that's what I would do with the 55K that he currently has. Drop it in a high yield. Laurel Road is what we suggest. Now, as far as the money that he has coming in through his income, we would say to invest 15% of his gross salary every single month into that 401K that's being provided for him. That's great. And so to Ken's point, that's part of our baby steps.

It's baby step four. And the reason he's able to do that is because he's already completed everything up until that point, which is the paying off of his consumer debt. He doesn't have any debt. And he saved up what we would call three to six months of expenses. In his case, that's what that $55,000 is. And then after you've done that, now you're in a place where you can start investing regularly and so that's why the why behind why we're giving you that advice okay that sounds good and what what did you say the name was Laurel what Laurel Road

okay and so you can google that if you're like that's not for me you can check out Marcus by Goldman Sachs you can check out Ally they're all really great ones but Laurel is the one that uh we have connections with here uh at Ramsey okay all right he's doing great mom he really is and uh you should be proud the fact that he he should be investing you said he is so he's got a big chunk of savings that's going to give him a lot of freedom and a lot of options, as Jade said. So he's doing okay. Nothing to be sad about at all. I'd be very happy.

This young man is way ahead. Did you say he's 19? Yeah, 19. Okay, yeah, he's way ahead of most 19-year-olds. All right, let's go to Baltimore, Maryland next. Ryan is there. Ryan, how can we help? Hey, how's it going, studio?

Good morning. Good. What's going on? Good. So I'm 22 years old. I have $6,000 in a 401k, another $2,000 in an individual brokerage account I kind of play around with. I'm asking if I should take that money out of the 401k and the brokerage account to pay off some of my debt. How much debt do you have? I was about $23,000 in total between my car loan and I got a personal loan worth $6,000

and a credit card on $4,500. Okay. What's your income? Yeah, what's your income? So I make $130,000 a year right now and I'm also getting another job increase. I'll be making around $150,000 a year right now, and I'm also getting another job increase. I'll be making around $150,000 a year. Nice.

Yeah, no, the answer to your question, I definitely would not touch the 401k. I mean, that's the whole point is you're saving for your future. And whenever you're investing, it's a long-term play, especially if it's tied to retirement. You don't want to touch that money because of the penalties that are going to be associated with that. So no to that. If you wanted to clear out this 2K in the brokerage, definitely do that. Because again, there's not going to be any tax implication or penalty if you do some. Do so. You'll have to pay taxes on it as an addition to your earned income. But other than that, there's no penalty per se with that brokerage. So you could definitely clear that out. And with this income that you have,

there's no reason that you shouldn't be debt-free, lickety-split, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I'm making the payments fine right now, but, you know, just between the interest rates, I think it's 11% of my credit card and about 12% of my car loan. Yeah. So I just didn't know. I mean, total, the monthly payments between all the debts, like $900, like a little under $1,000. So I didn't know if I should take that money out and just didn't know. I mean, total, the monthly payments between all the debts, like $900, like a little under $1,000.

So I didn't know if I should take that money out and just invest $1,000 each month back into the 401k and be back to where I'm at or if it's not worth it. You're using a bad decision to justify a good reason. And so that's where you're at. You want to pay off your debt, which is really great. That's a good choice that you want to make, but you don't want to do it with a bad decision. And pulling from your 401k is a bad decision. And why we teach it that way, there's a lot of reasons. We just talked about the penalties and whatnot, but so much of money is behavioral and habitual. And so you've already had a habit of creating debt in your life, right? And so right now we're working on breaking the habit of creating debt. And what we don't want to do is then create a habit of pulling from 401k savings, retirement

savings in order to fix a problem. Because now we're starting another habit that's a negative habit. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I got you. I'm not very smart with my money decisions. I got a large inheritance when I was 19. I'm kind of still recovering from some of that debt to get back on my feet.

So I just don't want to make another wrong decision by pulling out of the 401k. No, I think that you're... Just go ahead and stick with the payments and take the 2k out of the brokerage account. That's right. Credit card, car, or... Yeah, so you're going to start with the lowest, in the debt snowball, you're going to start with whatever the lowest balance is.

So it sounds like it's the credit cards, four and a half thousand, start with that. Then you're moving on to whatever's next, and then the 6K is, well, actually the 6K is next, and then the car. Okay, sweet. Thank you. I appreciate it. You got it, man. Thanks for the call. You then the car. Okay, sweet. Thank you. I appreciate it.

You got it, man. Thanks for the call. You know, you hear that. You want to go, you're not, Ryan, it's not that you're dumb. You make decisions that a lot of people make. It's just kind of the, well, everybody else is doing it. And then you wake up and it's like, you're not branded as dumb. Hey, good hour, Jade Warshaw.

Thank you, my friend. Thanks to James Childs and all of our team for keeping us on the air. This is the Ramsey Show. This is the Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life, specifically winning with your money, winning in your work, winning in your relationships. That's the goal. I'm Ken Coleman.

Jade Warshaw is with me, and we are here to coach you up. Let's go. You can jump in by simply calling the number 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Okay, James, this is rare, but I'm looking at the magic monitor that tells us who to go to, what line to pick up, little behind the scenes for the audience. Okay, yes. And I see on line four, Jade, if I'm not mistaken, I see two names. What does this mean? I mean, I guess it means

two people. This is very exciting. Is this a husband and wife? Am I asking too many questions? We'll find out. Nobody knows in there. Let's go to Richmond, Virginia, my old stomping grounds, Sarah and taylor hello hi hi oh okay we've got a couple is that what i'm hearing yes yes i have a feeling we're going to be choosing sides here ken this is very exciting all right so whoever wants to lead go take it away. Tell us what Jade and I are weighing in on here.

Okay, forgive me because I'm extremely nervous, but my ultimate question is, should my husband spend $150,000 on his dream car, or should we use that money to pay down our mortgage or further our financial goals. Holy smokes. Wow. That is a big one.

Okay. How much income, what is your income, your combined income, solo income? Tell us what that is. It ranges. We're in sales, but the past couple of years, it's been pretty consistent at about $700 to $750. Oh, yes. Love it.

And so that tells me, I think, that you've got the 150K saved up, ready to go, ready to drop on the car. Yes, we do. All right. Okay. Then I'm going to be the devil's advocate here. So assuming there's no other debt besides the mortgage, yes? Yes. Correct. Okay. And we have paid off all of our debt okay and what do you owe on the mortgage 372 372 okay and uh or have you already been kind of making like i i can feel you looking at me ken i'm getting i'm getting there i'm getting there ken is like jay just tell them they can buy the car. Wow. Wow. Me think Val Duff protests too much. I was just looking at you.

That's what I do when my co-host talks. I can feel it. I can feel it. Here's what I was trying to get at. If you guys have been, you know, we always say to be intentional about paying off the mortgage. My guess is you've probably been making some, throwing some extra money at it here and there. You make a really great income. You've paid off all your debt. I'm guessing the money is going to be paid in cash yes yes he's got the money he's got the money in the bank yeah i mean i'm not mad at it this is so this is very negligible in your world i feel like but sarah there's a reason why you

guys called we know what taylor wants to do there is a reason why both guys called. We know what Taylor wants to do. There is a reason why both of you are on the phone and you called us, so let's be real. Let's walk through this a little bit. I'm not ready to, despite what Jade said, I'm not ready to make a judgment yet. Judge Ken needs a few more things here. The only thing that would make me change my mind, because I just tell you, is if already you guys

have done something kind of outrageous that was on Taylor's side. Like if he was like, honey, I want to put a pool in the backyard, and you guys already did that. So, Sarah, what's the deal? What are you dealing with, Sarah? Yes, he's going to be driving my pool, unfortunately. Oh!

That's what this is about? So, Sarah, you don't have a problem with – No, no. Huh? Are you saying you want a pool? No, you don't have a problem with huh are you saying you want to pull i don't need a pool right now okay sarah are you okay with this 150 000 vehicle purchase yes i i am i am i feel like a you know we we worked very hard we paid off three hundred thousand dollars in debt just following the dave plan um so but So it just feels a little out of character to just go then buy a toy

instead of putting it either on our mortgage or using it to save. Something that everyone can enjoy maybe? Well, but Jade, let's look at the formula. What is our financial formula on cars versus their income? They're fine. They're at $700,000, $750,000. We say that it can't be more than half of your take-home pay. So we're okay there. We're okay there.

But what I'm sniffing out here, Sarah, I think, I thinketh, me thinks that I'm hearing something where you're saying, hey, if we're going to splurge, can it be something that everybody can enjoy and that everybody can use, like the mortgage or the pool? Is she right, Sarah? Because there's a reason why you guys are on the call to ask us. Yeah. Okay, then. I think we just, you know, permission and, you know.

Not ours to give, first of all. True that. Now, the reason I asked Jade that question, I was doing it for the larger audience, because we have a formula by which we make these decisions. So if you're looking for permission, then that would be Jade's permission based on our formula. But again, I think that this comes down to this to me is not a financial issue. This is a marriage issue. If you both are on the same page and you feel good about it and we're completely aligned that once we do this purchase, the next major thing is we're knocking the house out, that I don't have any issue with it. I'm just curious. I think America wants to know, what car is this?

What vehicle are we talking about? It's a brand new 911. That's a sweet car. I'm sorry. I don't know what that is. You don't know what a – okay. It's a Porsche. Oh, okay. I'm sorry, I don't know what that is. You don't know what a... Okay, it's a Porsche. Oh, okay.

Yeah. I'm in it now. Listen, this is another world. Brand new. That means this is a vehicle that is made to scream. Am I right, Taylor? Yes. Yeah.

What color? Red. Ooh. You might as well be telling the police, hey, look at me. I'm going to have to have another wine item budget for speeding tickets. Yeah. And yeah. And insurance. Any other concerns, Jade? I'm ready to throw the gavel down that says this is a big purchase. And Taylor, I think that your Christmas list and Father's Day list and

everything for many years to come is really small, my friend. All I'm saying is Sarah's up next is all I'm saying. She's standing right there in the shadows waiting for her moment. A little bit of bling. A little bit of bling. Yeah. Yeah. Buy the formula.

It's okay. Yeah. The answer is yes. Go buy it. Oh, geez. Okay. Well done.'s okay. Yeah. The answer is yes. Yeah. Go buy it. Oh, geez. Okay. Well done. Hey, well done.

Sarah, wait a second. The ah-geez comment. I'm not letting that go. What are you feeling right now? Be honest. She wants the pool, kid. I know I want her to say it. What's the ah-geez?

What does that mean? It's the largest check we will have ever written in one sitting. So that's just scary. Are you excited to ride in this thing? I am. Yes. And he, yeah, I am. It'll be fun.

All right. You know what? I didn't cover, I didn't cover one other part of this. Please cover away. We have about a minute. It's an assumption. You guys are Baby Steps Millionaires, right? We just passed over about two months ago.

Okay. That's all I need to check okay i assumed it but i didn't come out and ask it so there we go that was the the second contingency that was necessary was that why is that why you were boring your eyes were boring into me before okay i i gotta tell you i gotta work on my non-verbals i i wasn't thinking feeling i like, this is your lane. Go. I'll jump in when I feel the need to jump in. I've got to be careful. I was like, is there something in my teeth?

Is there something going on? No, it's just my normal. I look at you and all my co-hosts the same. When you're talking, I'm respecting. But I've got to be careful. I'll do this. Next time you're done, I'm just going to do this right here so she doesn't think I'm boring a whole. Oh, man. She said in her head.

No, I agreed with you 100%. Yeah. But I would say this. Here's where I was going to... I'd probably get an older model that wouldn't cost quite as much. Oh, Ken, don't be a... And it screams just as much. Don't be a party pooper, Ken. Makes the wife happy, saves a little bit of money.

They all run really good. That's just my two cents. Okay, okay, okay. This is The Ramsey Show. You've worked, saved, sacrificed, and been gazelle intense with your financial game plan. But do you have the right defense in place, like the right health insurance? Look, you can't walk past a doctor's office these days without getting a massive bill. And if you don't have health insurance, a major medical situation can undo all of your hard work.

That's where my friends at Health Trust Financial can help. They work for you, not the insurance company. So they find you the right health insurance, and they save you money. Ramsey has recommended Health Trust Financial for two decades because they're the experts. And whether you're 19 years old or 90, you can trust them to do two very important things. Listen to you, then find you health insurance coverage

with everything you need and nothing you don't. Health Trust Financial is your one-stop shop for unbiased advice about affordable health insurance options. They could save you hundreds of dollars a month, so make sure you're not overpaying. Go to healthtrustfinancial.com today. healthtrustfinancial.com. Welcome back, America. You're joining the conversation about you and your life on the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, Jade Warshaw is with me, and the phone number for you to jump in for your question is 888-825-5225. You know, if you have joined us here, that we're talking about your money, your income, your work, if you will, and your relationships.

So Jade and I are here to take those questions. Let's go to Estelle in San Antonio, Texas. Estelle, how can we help? Hi, I have a job offer that is less than I'm currently making, and I'm just looking for some advice. I'm really unhappy at the company I'm currently working for. I'm just with management changes and kind of the change in direction with the company since I've started. So I'm wondering if I should take the price cut to go to this company, the new company that, I mean, I asked a lot of questions to make sure that I fit with them and the integrity of the company. And I really do, but just the money is what's holding me back. How much of a cut is it? So it's all commissioned. So they're willing to do $65,000

as a draw out of the commission, which would be like a $40,000 pay cut. So you're making over a hundred now. Yes. And is this similar work or something completely different? It's similar in that it's sales, but a different product. What's your, oh, go ahead. Yeah. So what is your ladder look like? What are they saying that your opportunity for financial growth is on that commission structure. In other words, did they paint a picture for six months in or a year in? We project, or you should be able to, based on what we know about our current sales force, that you could make six figures. I'm just curious, is there any kind of forecasting to where this pay cut is temporary? Yes. So their goal is for me to make over a million in sales by six months in,

but at least by 12 months at the very latest. What would that pay you? So they're paying 5%, so 5% of a million, and then you get an additional $12,000 as the base. That's not drawn out. No, I understand that, but that still got you at that $65,000. I'm saying if you take a job where you're going to make $65,000, that's a $40,000 pay cut. Okay.

I'm saying, did they forecast what it would take or how long it would take for you to make $100,000 in this new opportunity? Oh, yeah. So they say by year, by year two, I'd be making their guesses over 150. Yeah. That's a pretty decent gap considering that I'm not hearing a person who's telling me that there's some type of toxic abusive situation in their current company. I feel like you're taking the first exit when, when it may not be the best exit. That was my question. Is this the first job you've been offered? And why does the first offer have to be the one that we go with? Can we keep looking? Well, I've interviewed at a couple and I got passed up. after the second interview, I wasn't offered the position. But I think it's just so much of the like negativity I feel at work is starting to come into my personal life where I just like I don't want to wake up.

I feel kind our service isn't, our service to our customer is what's suffering in the way that the company is shifting. Totally get that. Totally get it. And I'm not in any way, don't hear me say you need to just grin and bear it. I'm saying change your mindset to, this is not my long-term play. I'm out of here soon. But not take such a big hit. But let's just walk through this financially. I'd love for Jade to walk through this.

I mean, just walk through the numbers. Do you have any debt? How is this going to affect your budget? I mean, she's the budget queen. I think you've got to walk through this side of things too. So if you can make a case to Jade that financially, this doesn't put you in a tight, tight situation, maybe I'd reconsider. Yeah. I mean, you're losing a third of your income here, which is significant. Do you have debt? I just have over $3,500 on my car.

That's it. And that's it. Do you have savings? I don't have savings, but I have two investments. Okay. What are they? I have the $1,000 emergency. Okay, but not like a fully funded emergency fund yet? No, not yet. That's what I'm working towards. And that was my other question is,

should I take the new job and keep working my current job part-time where I keep getting that income while I'm building my book of business at the new company? Would they allow that? I'm not sure. Well, that's professional polygamy. And the answer to that is, is you're cheating on both of them. And I wouldn't do that. And now again, if one of the companies are both are like, yeah, I'm fine with you having a full-time job and then you're moonlighting, but that doesn't sound like what you're proposing. So I want to steer you back to Jade. I want Jade to walk you through, because I think the answer to this question is going to become pretty obvious when we look at your actual income and your expenses. Yeah. Is it?

Because I kind of am like, I don't. I don't know. I don't know how much margin she's going to have when she gets cut by 40 grand. That's what I'm saying. Right now, it seems like you're doing okay. After everything is paid for, after you've done your budget, how much extra money do you have every month? Well, I just started with the app. Okay.

Every dollar? Yeah, because my spending was just out of control. Like, that's why I have nothing saved, because as soon as I would get the money, I would just go buy everything I always wanted. Okay, and so now you're not going to have that margin. And if you take this opportunity, you're not going to have that margin, which means you're really going to have to be on top of it. What I would do is I would run out both scenarios. And I think it's going to give you a clear picture because I already kind of put my vote in for, I would just keep applying and seeing it, see if more opportunities come. That's my vote as well. I think she's taken the

first person who batted their eyes at her. I think so too. First offer. You have a lot to offer. And I think, you know, Ken, you can speak to this. How many do you have to go through to find a winner? Well, what's the average? I don't even know any data on that because I think that is so wide, such a wide variance. In today's world with AI, it's really hard to get noticed. So I'd keep your chin up, Estelle. I agree completely with Jade. I don't think this makes sense for you. I don't think that your world's on fire as much as you think it is. I want to acknowledge that it sucks and it is hard to get out of bed in the morning. I want to acknowledge that. However, I also want to acknowledge how tough you are if you

switch your mindset from, oh, I got to deal with this negative environment another day, as opposed to, okay, I'm so grateful that I make six figures and I'm learning how to budget and I'm learning how to pay off debt and I still have debt to pay off and I've got a stable job. It's not great, but boy, am I grateful for the money and I'm going to go find another job where I can step from dock to dock, if you will, we're going to be very close in income. I just think that would be my coaching for you, Estelle, is to change your mindset to that. And let's just highlight, Ken, no job is perfect. Every job has a couple of things that you're like, I wish that were different. Think about Jade. She has to spend three hours with me on the air.

I've tried talking to them about this and it's not changing. I think people understand that. They get like, oh God, bless Jade. No, I love hosting with Ken, but you see our point here is that you could end up, and I'm not trying to, you know, find problems with this. The big problem is the income, but you may go over there for less income. There is going to be something about the job that you're like I wish that were different and so having that plus a lower income you know I'm just saying the grass is not always greener on the other side yeah hang so would you would you take the new job if they matched what I was currently making based on what you've told us yeah you said it was a good fit you feel feel like the culture is good. Was there room for negotiation on that base draw?

I think so. I think it sounds like they're willing to do whatever it takes to get me. They're actually a client of mine. That's new information. Okay, then why don't we start with, I make $105,000 and the economy and the job market is still strong. I can't go backwards i'd love to work for you guys you're asking me to take a massive step backwards and have the walkaway

power okay try it you got this estelle yeah i got it that's a good name thank you for being a friend there it is this golden girl yeah estelle getty wow. I can't believe I passed that test from the 80s. So exciting. All right, folks. We're going to go because Jade's got to fill out another HR complaint about being on with me. And we'll see how that goes. In the meantime, we'll be right back. Don't move.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is with me. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. I like to call her the budget queen because she figured out how to do it long before she even got to Ramsey. And now you get to do a lot of stuff with every dollar. People are new to the show because we've got a bunch of people jumping in all the time from multiple platforms. Why EveryDollar? What is it? Why are we so proud of it? And what does it do for people?

Well, the fact is it is the best budgeting app in the world. I've been with EveryDollar since the beginning. That's what I know before you even were here. Yeah. Back in 2016, 15, when it first came out, I remember being so excited because it offers really everything you need to make the most of your money. It helps you create your budget. It helps you stick to your monthly budget. And what I love about EveryDollar is they're constantly iterating. They're constantly adding new features that are going to help you more and more. You can operate the budget for free, which is great. You can sign up for free. And then there's also a premium version if you want a couple of more very, very useful and handy bells and whistles. But the point is,

every dollar makes this thing simple. It's a simple plan for your spending. It helps you track your expenses in real time, right? Instead of waiting till the end of the month and realizing that crap, I went over budget. Every dollar makes it so that you don't have to do that. You can keep on top of things that help you. It helps you save for the things that matter most to you. It really is an easy to use all in app. And what I love about it, Ken, is I'm not a tech savvy person. If there's something wrong, if I go to turn the TV on and there's a weird screen on it, you may, I may as well hang it up. I'm calling my husband. I can't do anything tech wise. I call Sam too when I have a tech-wise.

But every dollar, it's extremely intuitive. I open it up and I just know how to use it. So if it works for me, it can work for you. It fits into your busy lifestyle. I really can just gush and go on about it all day. If you're married, I like to say that every dollar fills in the communication gaps. It just occurred to me because you did this and my ADHD is flaring. You have the every dollar fingernails. Of course. I know you didn't do that on purpose. You know

what? I kind of did. I see that on the screen. That's an every dollar color. That's right. We had the total money makeover event and I was doing an every dollar demo. And so I did that. That's why you did those? Yes, Ken. I'm thoughtful like that. I like the fact that I picked up on that. I was kind of joking around. Well, with the way you've been staring at me, I would hope that you would pick up on it. There it is again with the staring complaint. Every dollar, kid. It's about every dollar.

There it is. It helps you keep a pulse on your spending and so you make progress towards your goals. You can get it and download it for free at the App Store or Google Play. That's where you get it, guys. By the way, you got to have the every dollar so you don't spend too much on the fingernails. That's right. It goes hand in hand. Do you budget for

that? Of course I do, Kim. Religiously. So you don't do them yourself? I wish I could. I tried one time and it didn't go well. I have no idea. I don't know what goes into it. You know, it's 84 bucks. You have a specialist. What? Yeah. 84 bucks for those? Yeah, it's 84 with tip, $84. How often do you do this? Four weeks, every month. And can you change the color on your own at home? No. Oh, they come that color? No, you pick the color and then they put kind of like a shellac over it.

A shellac. You got to take a drill to get these things off. I am learning a lot about the fingernails right now. Let's ask Stacy. She knows. Yeah, I know. I probably should ask. I'm not looking at that line item. But it's important.

I'm full supporter of it, by the way. All right. Caitlin is going to join us now in Des Moines, Iowa. Caitlin, how can we help? Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. So just to give you some background, my husband and I are in our first year of marriage.

Um, I just graduated from my graduate program. Um, and we are currently staying at my parents' house because we had to move. Um, when I accepted my job, we're staying at my parents' house for a couple months, looking to get into a rental towards the end of summer. And we kind of have a pet situation that is why we're calling. So I have a two-year-old dog. He's a beagle, so he barks a lot. And when we first got him, we lived in our apartment and we started getting complaints that he was barking from management and we couldn't really fix the issue. We tried a lot of different things and we just couldn't get him to stop barking because of just all the noise he was hearing from above, below, all that type of stuff. So we ended up moving to a rental house within like four months to six months of us signing that lease. So it cost us some money to get out of that lease.

And then also our pet deposit that we had to forfeit. So now that we're looking to get a new rental. How much? Can you tell us real dollars that you just spent for Fido? Yes, of course. Of course. So we had to forfeit $300 in a non-refundable pet deposit um and then it cost us about five hundred dollars to get out of the lease oh so we're at eight hundred

dollars deep okay keep going with the story so now you move into the rental and what happens there um and so we had a good experience with the rental house because there were no neighbors to complain about whether or not he was barking uh Um, and so fast forward to now we've graduated, moved. Um, we're looking at getting into another rental, but this time we are on baby step two and we're trying to get out of debt. Okay. So the rentals in the area are between $1,000 and $1,500. If we go towards the $1,000 mark, we would be looking at an apartment. Like $1,300 to $1,500, we'd be looking at a rental house. So my question is, is it worth it to try and get the $1,000 apartment if there's a possibility that we could end up in the same situation as two years ago? How much debt do you guys have?

Sorry? How much debt are you guys have? Sorry? How much debt are you trying to pay off? Currently, we have $8,500 in credit cards. We have $25,000 on my husband's truck. Okay. And then we have $100,000 in my student loans. Yipes. Okay.

That's all I needed to hear. Yes. We know one thing. The dog is not going to stop barking. That's right. Beagles, they love, until you find it a duck or find something for it to put in its mouth, it's going to keep barking. With where you're at, $500 is a make or break. I'm just going to, don't shoot the messenger. Okay. $500 where you're at is a make or break. So the difference between you paying a thousand dollars a month versus 1500 is huge in your world right now. Okay. You guys have got over almost $140,000 of debt. What's your income? Our combined income net is 8686,000. Okay. And so for that reason, I'm going to try to do the apartment deal.

I am going to do the apartment deal. What about the dog? If somebody says, you know, old barking beagle has to go, then that's I'm finding a loving family that I can visit Mr. Beagle on the weekend. And you can send me text photos of him as he grows in a home where he can bark as much as he wants. You're getting rid of the dog? That's your solution to this? That's my solution. All right, I want to place that one on hold.

I got to stand by it, Ken. Oh, okay. Caitlin, you still with us? Yes. What are the chances of you giving this dog away? Oh. Be honest. I think if it's the only way that we can do this.

It's not. It's not. I have another way. I would do it, but if there's another way. Listen, she's got her head on straight. Caitlin, you've got your priorities in line. I think there's another way and keep the beagle. Listen, I'm not suggesting that we call the dog catcher, right?

Or like he's not going to the pound. You said a loving family and then give us Polaroids. That is not helping the dog lovers out there. All right, real quick. I know. How much is the truck worth? Is he upside down in the truck? Yeah.

How much? I think right now I looked at the worth. I think it's about $14,000. Upside down? Yikes. Yeah. Okay. Sorry.

It's worth $14,000. Okay. So yeah. It's $11,000 upside down. Okay. If I got this right, $25,000. And then what's the truck payment per month? $500.

All right. So I would be working on getting rid of the truck, and that's going to help us in two things. Number one, it's getting us out of debt faster, and it's also going to lower that payment. So if you could go to a credit union, if you guys have decent credit at this point, and you can actually get a loan, pay off the truck, scramble some money together, and get him a beater, that's one option. That's a good option. The other option is we work really, really hard, second and third jobs, both of us,

because we're only dog parents. I don't think we've got kids. Is that right? No, no kids. And no money saved? No money saved? Not much. We have the $1,000 emergency fund, but that's it.

So here's the deal. We're running out of time. I don't disagree with Jade. I think that's the nuclear option. I think you both need to be working second and third jobs and to be able to pay the debt down, get rid of the truck quickly, and that way be able to afford a house. That beagle ain't going to start barking,

and people aren't going to stop complaining about it. Boof, boof. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside as well. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Taking your questions about your money.

I'll help out on questions about income. Want to make more income. Multiple ways to do that. Climbing the ladder. You get better, your paycheck gets bigger. That's what I know. So how can I help there as well? 888-825-5225. Let's go to Steve in Phoenix, Arizona. Steve, how can we help? Hey, just the person I wanted to talk to, Ken. So I wrote stuff down because I tend to ramble

and I want to avoid it. So I'm going to start out with my goal, my financial situation, employment situation, my two whys, and then my question. Okay. So I want to open my own bookkeeping business. Okay. Our household income is about 80 to 90 gross depending on my wife's overtime and my overtime and any bonuses we get. I've got about $49,000 in debt between some stupid student loans and some credit cards. We need about $5,000 in our take-home pay to cover our expenses and our minimum payments on that debt. We could possibly squeeze it with $4,800, but my wife might grumble at me.

No, she will. Let's take that off the table. I work at a crumbling CPA firm, and I don't see a lot of growth potential in my income there. And it's part of why I want to start my own business. I have a bachelor's degree and I love the work. Some of my favorite calls are when I get to talk to our small business owners and help them understand their financials. Um, the, I've got two reasons why, uh, that I want to. Number one, I want to drastically change my income potential, be able to pay off debt faster and build wealth.

The second one, a little bit more emotional for me. My mother was diagnosed with stage four kidney cancer just a couple weeks ago, and I've already been wanting to open a business right um and I may need to occasionally go help her out with any doctor visits or whatever whatnot yeah working for somebody else if I have to say oh you know two to four o'clock today I I got to go help my mom. I got to ask permission. I got to take time off.

I got to take a pay cut or whatever. Working for myself, I get to just go take care of my mother, come home, finish the work I need to do, and I don't have to worry about a gap in pay. Time freedom. Yeah. Totally get it, brother. So what's the question?

So the question is, since I work at a CPA firm, it would be a conflict of interest for me to start my own bookkeeping business on the side. So should I? Why? I would only think the conflict is if you... We offer bookkeeping services. The only conflict... Go ahead, Ken. I'm sorry. No bookkeeping services the only conflict go ahead ken i'm sorry no you go no go ahead i was gonna say we we actually teach all the time here that if you're

going to do a side hustle it's great to offer a service that you already know how to do that you're already doing and that you can do on the side it's not you taking clients from you know where you're working and say hey i'll I'll do it for you on the side. That's different. That's poaching. But if you set up a profile online or you're talking to people at church and somebody needs you to do their books,

of course you can do that on the side. Okay. Do you get that? I was kind of, I mean, I signed something that is a paragraph long that says, I agree to the non-compete, which doesn't detail anything of what that is. Oh, well, no, you got it. Other than the employee handbook has a conflict of interest detailed out.

But there's nothing that says, Oh, you can't, there's nothing that details what the non-compete is, but that's what I have. So I would not be able to, or at least I feel like I would not legally be able to work my own business simultaneously as working here. Okay. I would, I don't know any of the details of that. Well, you need to. You need to because without looking at your agreement, they wouldn't put non-compete language in your employee agreement if they didn't have some type of stipulations on it. So it's probably worth a reread. Do you know any lawyers that just personally? Not personally, no. You know people like i said i get somebody to look at this it's probably worth it um but the reality is um this is not something that you have to solve i know you're feeling the urgency because of your mother's situation and that could get really dicey i i don't want

to put all this pressure on you. I feel like that pressure you're putting on yourself. So let me restate that. I don't want your mother's significant health situation to put you in a urgent situation that doesn't necessarily need to be urgent. It feels like you've got a good enough relationship with your current leader that if something were to happen with your mom, they would give you some flexibility. Is that true, or am I making that up? Yes and no. I mean, they're not heartless, but at the same time, they've got a business they've got to run, and they can't just pay me for not being at work right so the question is is the non-compete is if the non-compete is is related to you doing side bookkeeping

services or or duplicating any sir offering services that your current firm offers while employed that's one thing but one of the things that i think you can do and i don't think this is gray area at all i i think it would hold up in a court of law, is you could begin to prospect and line things up and not actually perform the services. But tell me if this feels weird to you. I don't think so. Line up people and say, listen, here's my situation. Here's why I'm doing it. I can offer this. I can do all this stuff for you. And here's the deal. I'd like to come on. I'd like to, if I leave here on such and such a date, then I start up here.

That's one way to kind of skin this cat. Does that make sense what I'm saying? Okay. So just lay up some groundwork before getting started. Maybe get some. Line all the clients up. Line all the clients up. Say, listen, I'm going to do this above board.

And so I don't want to, I'm not going to perform any services for you until I leave an X date, and I want to know that you're committed, and you can sign some type of agreement or whatever, and say I'm going to now take care of you and all your services. And so I leave here on June 30th, and I pick you up July 1 or whatever. I think that that's what I would attempt to do. Because let's be honest, Steve, you're going to have to do this anyway. If they didn't have a problem with you doing bookkeeping for other people,

not their own clients, and thus undercutting them, and I would have that problem too, then you'd still have to go line people up, correct? Yeah. Yeah, so it's the same function. It's just what you're doing is you're going to keep getting paid by this group, and you're going to be smart, and you're going to save money, and you're going to prepare for the transition.

But hopefully you can line up. How many clients do you think you'd have to line up, knowing what you know about what you charge for your services? How many would you have to sign up to be able to step from this current job into working for yourself? To replace my take-home pay, I would only need between six to ten clients, depending on how big they are. I'd start tonight.

That's wonderful. When I get off, here's what I do. On my way home and on my way in, I'm smiling and dialing. I'm emailing. I am lining up ten clients as fast as I possibly can. Okay. I love that. I think that's doable, Steve. And that is in no way, am I right, Jay? Does that feel gross to you? No, I think that's very creative and just what he needs to be doing. Yep. All right, Steve. And I think that's what this is. And then you just do it above board.

And then there's no guilt. There's no guilt at all. So I think that's the play. But let me also point something out that I think you already acknowledged. Just because you're working for yourself doesn't mean that all of a sudden you just got all kind of time in the world. Because once you're working for yourself, guess who has to do the work? That's a fact it's you and i found that that the hardest job i ever had was working for me that's true

but there is a layer that he's talking about of you know if from two to four he needs to go help his mom you gotta do it he can then come back and get that work done at 10 p.m if he wants to that's right you know so there is a little something to that just pointing it out 70 of americans right now want to be self-employed only six percent are there's a big So there is a little something to that. Just pointing it out. 70% of Americans right now want to be self-employed. Only 6% are. There's a big gap there. It's harder than you think. So plan it and then step into it and give it everything you got.

Good hour, Jade Warshaw. Thank you. Thanks to James Childs, our fearless leader. And thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, specifically winning with your money, winning in your work, winning with your relationships.

888-825-5225 is the number to get coached up. 888-825-5225. Jade Warshaw is with me. I'm Ken Coleman, and we're ready to roll this hour. We're going to start it off with Patty in Seattle, Washington. Patty, how can we help today? Yeah, so I think I've done the steps without even knowing I did the steps, and now I'm still in the mindset that I should not be spending money.

Never, never, never, never spend money. Uh-oh. that I should not be spending money. Never, never, never, never spend money. I'm 50, and I would like to start doing things, but I get so nervous. Tell us about your earliest memories or maybe the most dominant memory you have around money early on in life. Like just being super poor. Like when people say say what do you want to do when you grow up all i ever said was i want to have a job where i can pay my bills yeah i have a job where i can pay my bills that was all i ever said and here's the reason i asked that question um that right there is the sole reason as to why you still feel the way you feel. This is the key word about money. Even after

paying off all your debt, you have a great retirement fund, you got all this, and that worry is coming from a deep place of fear. There's a lot of trauma around money, the way you grew up. Does that sound about right to you, yes. What have you overcome? Tell us what you paid off. Tell us what you have now. Tell us about your current situation. Okay, well, of course, in my 20s, I was pretty stupid. Bad marriage, blah, blah, blah.

Got into super debt. Had to file bankruptcy. And then, so since then, I've just literally put my nose to the ground and just said, okay, that's never happening again. I'm going to make sure this happens. I got a decent job that has really good retirement. They have an ESOP program. It's employee-owned.

I've been there 30 years now. I have over $2 million. Wow. So when I retire. Wow. Patty. Patty. Patty. Patty. Wow.

That's pretty incredible. We have two houses that are paid for with my new husband. We have no debt. We have no car. We have $200,000 in savings. And I still worry daily. He's already retired. I'm still working because i i worry and like 55

are companies that i work for says you can take 75 or 25 out of 55 what are you worried about patty right now be specific try to give us something specific okay so like an example so like we were talking about like getting a different house and we would sell these ones and my husband's like i don't even think you can get a loan because we're like one income and i'm like i don't how do you not be able to get a loan when we have 200 000 in the bank and i still work yeah he's wrong he's wrong so yeah he's not right about that So some of it here is just a lack, and I'm not being negative, it's just a lack of knowledge of what's possible and what's not. So that's thing number one.

What else are you afraid of? Well, okay, just, I mean, they're like, oh, $2 million isn't what it used to be. And then they've been like, okay, so like at 55, I'd like to quit working, and they'll give me 25 which is 750 000 basically because i'll gain more in the next five years but if you think about it that's only like 10 years of my of my thing or that wouldn't even buy a house what are your two let's stop okay you need to stop patty how much are the houses worth? My house, or our two houses? Yeah.

Probably about a million dollars together. And you have two million in retirement, correct? Correct. Between you and your husband. And $200,000 in savings. Yes. Here's where you're at.

This is all, the fear and the worry that you're feeling is all for lack of knowledge. Because right now, it's a bunch of numbers that are floating around in your head. It's a bunch of what he said. And it doesn't seem like that's enough or people are saying this,

or my husband said, we can't even get a loan. So let's let Ken and I tell you the facts because we would say here, Dr. John Deloney would say, facts are your friends. So just looking at the 2 million, let's just look at a small piece of your world, which is the 2 million. We say all the time around here, the point is to be able to live off your return, right? The

interest that you're gaining on your nest egg. So obviously you've got this in really great investments. Even if it was just in the S&P 500, it's probably having an annualized rate of return of around 10%. What's 10% of two million two hundred thousand two hundred thousand can you live off and we're we're not getting technical so for all of my technical people listening i'm not getting technical i'm just speaking in broad terms here do you think that if you lived off the interest of two hundred thousand dollars a year you'd be all right yes yes okay yes that's thing one we're not even talking about the houses right now okay okay so money wise you guys are doing very very well you're doing good you're not gonna run

out of you're not gonna run out of money okay so that's i just want you to don't contest it for now just let just sit on that like we've done well we're not gonna run out of money and one of the things i'm gonna take a a message out of this Sam Warshaw playbook. That's my husband. You want to know what he does? He'll write a truthful affirmation on a sticky note, whether it's a Bible verse or something that he wants to believe and wants it to become first nature for his mind. He puts them on the window, on the the mirror every morning and he looks at him

when he brushes his teeth in the morning at night and at night and so I think for you something that you need to tell yourself every single day at least twice a day is I make good decisions now and I can trust the decisions that I make financially we have peace like you need to come up with whatever that is and tell yourself that because the truth is, and Ken touched on it earlier, you do have trauma that you carry around. I talked about it a couple of weeks ago. You know, when you, when you come from a background where you're used to coming home and the water is cut off or the electricity is cut off, or you know, you're cutting the mold off the cheese in order to make a mayonnaise and cheese sandwich. When you come

from that, there is a part of you that wonders if you'll end up back there again, right? I think you have to flip this, and I really think you need to sit with a therapist, and you have the money to spend on a therapist, Patty, don't you? Yes, I probably do. I'm going to give you a little hack that a friend of mine, Mike Foster, shared with me recently. When you have a voice that says, I don't have enough, and I think that that's the voice in your head or something similar, I don't have enough, you have to flip that. And it's as simple as what Jade is saying. It's, I have enough. Now you called presenting with, how do I get to a point where I spend some money? Because I just don't spend any money. So that tells me you're recovering because it tells me that your head

and heart are having a wrestling match, Patty. Your heart saying I've done a really good job of crawling out of the poverty stricken environment that I was raised in. I've got a better husband. All right. The first guy was a bum and now I've got a great husband I got a great life all the things and I'm still scared to spend because and that tells me you've you're recovering you're really close because your heart's going let's enjoy a little bit of this let's let's enjoy the spice of life am I right Patty but your brain's going no we can't because we'll never have enough. Yes. And even saying it out loud, it sounds stupid to say it out loud because I should know that that's enough, but it's not stupid. It's not stupid, Patty. You're just dealing with fear. I really want you, listen, we all endure, listen, go to BetterHelp. Go find a

local therapist and just talk to somebody about this. They'll give you the tools to overcome this fear. Jade and I aren't worried about you financially, nor are we worried about your spending habits, but to enjoy this money that you've worked so hard to accumulate, you're going to have to get healthy and win the battle over fear. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. The Ramsey Show continues. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman.

Jay Warshaw is with me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. All right, let's talk about insurance. Ramsey trusted pros are people who shop the marketplace. Compare insurance quotes so you don't have to. They do it on your behalf, comparing all of the quotes, discounts, bundling, all the things at no extra cost. They're going to make sure that you are covered and that allows you to sleep well at night. We interview, vet, and coach these Ramsey

Trusted Pros to make sure that they're experts who also have your interest at heart. They have that heart of a coach. Do you have the right coverage that you need in your insurance based on your specific needs? If you need to find out, go to ramseysolutions.com slash coverage. It just takes a couple minutes. You can figure out what you need and also get connected to a trusted pro in your area, ramseysolutions.com slash coverage. And it may be worth noting, Ken, that insurance is not a baby step. Let me throw that out there because some people are like, when I get out of debt, then I'm going to get the right auto coverage. And when I get out of debt, then I'll get life insurance. Or when I get out of debt, and that's not how it works, folks. The minute you find out that you need this is the minute that it's added to the budget and you get that security in place. I agree. That's good stuff. Good point.

Abigail's up next in Atlanta, Georgia. Abigail, how can we help? Hey guys, I'm glad to be on with you today. Good to be with you. What's up? So my husband basically found out that he is going to be let go in about 60 to 90 days. And so we are on the hunt for a new job for him. One offer, he's gotten a couple offers, but one offer that he has right now would significantly increase his income. However, he would be traveling out of state every other week, Monday to Friday. All right, let's just take the money off the table. How does that make you feel?

How does it make him feel with this travel? He views it as a neat way to kind of be able to see the country and that sort of thing without having the cost of it. Our daughter will be three years old next month, and so that would put me in charge of kind of running our house, taking care of her, which isn't a huge issue. We both work full-time, so really it would just be getting her off to school in the morning and picking her up in the afternoon and evenings, which isn't a big deal. So it sounds like he wants to do it it and sounds like you're having some second thoughts

about if this is a good decision. So you thought, well, I'll dial up the Ramsey show and get a take. Does he come a little bit, but I go ahead. Can I ask a more detailed question? Does he come home? Does he fly home like Fridays after work or does he come home on Saturdays? So is it really six days? Like how does it? No. So they would leave Monday morning and they would be home by dinner Friday. Okay. So they have full weekends and then exactly. So back to where we were. I got to know. You giggled. What's your feeling? I want to know where you're at on this. My thought is if we could do this for about three and a half to four years, the different, like we would be able to pay off our mortgage. That's the only debt we have at this point. And with our daughter being

so young, like he's not going to miss all the sporting events and that sort of thing that he would potentially later on. So maybe this is just a short term thing that he does for the next three to four years until we get that mortgage paid off and we're in baby step seven. Why would he miss them potentially later on if he didn't do this job? Because he tends to work later into the evenings and that sort of thing over time. Now, he's a carpenter. And so in order to pay off the mortgage, that's why he's doing that? Or it's just the way it is? No, it's a cycle. It's a little bit of both. So if he wanted to leave earlier, he would have the choice.

But the work is always there for him to be able to work later. And so right now we're choosing for both of us, honestly, to be working overtime. I got to be honest. I got to be honest. This is your life and you can choose what you you and your husband um decide but since you called you know when if you had told me jade we're in you know x amount of dollars of consumer debt we're in baby step two this seems like something we can do for you know 18 months or two years or whatever i might be on board with it i a family you know every other week that's half a year that's half the year he's gone. That's a lot. And the house, nothing's on fire.

Like there's no reason to sacrifice at this level. Like, yes, you can see the half glass, half full side and go, I can see the country and I can travel the world. But there's no reason to be at this level of intensity to pay off your mortgage. I wouldn't do it if I were him. I just as a guy looking at it from my perspective, but I am a little bit concerned that I asked you to describe his reaction to this and yours and his is like, hey, I get to travel the country on someone else's dime. And it makes me just wonder, you know, if you were to say to him, I don't like

this for our family, what do you think his reaction is going to be? We've definitely had that side of the conversation as well. And he obviously would miss spending those evenings with us in that time that we wouldn't have right now. So what was his reaction? You going, I don't like it. He completely agrees. And he said that if I say I don't't want him to go he won't go okay then i'm with jade on this i think you should tell him how you really feel and and by the way

and this is by the way i don't know if anybody ever does this jade but if if if you call us abigail and you want to know our opinion then you should use us as bad guy bad girl oh yeah play the tape i mean because it's on YouTube. And so, and so I always try to remind people, if you call and ask us, then use us as the bogeys. Like we're the ones go. Okay. So here's what I think I would say. What's your husband's name? Dan. Dan. Here's what I think, Dan. Uh, I know the Atlanta area very well lived there for 11 years. Um, I also know because I had a, uh, a very popular carpenter who has a massive YouTube channel on my show recently to discuss the shortage of carpenters in America. Oh. And Dan,

carpenters are at a premium. I don't know why you're getting laid off in the one place, but I think there's plenty of work to do locally if you go look for it and start talking it up and i think you can make really good money and never miss anything dan the tool man i yeah so abigail i i agree 100 this is not a gazelle emergency situation this is just be patient let's look for something else that doesn't require all the travel there's no reason for him to even leave Metro Atlanta, to be honest with you. That place is still popping, is it not, Abigail? It is. It definitely is. Well, they need carpenters.

We're just having a hard time finding something locally that would pay what we're hoping for him to be able to make, or even to be comparable to what he's at now. Was he working for a major housing company? It was a smaller company that works on larger projects. So that's why he's getting the premium. Yes. Do you mind me asking what was his hourly rate on this job? His hourly is only $25, but they get quarterly profit share.

So that's the big upside of his current position. Okay. So I'm glad I dug into this because here's the other thing I want to say. That's a rare carpenter situation. Extremely rare. So I don't know that we need to be searching for just that apples to apples type thing. It may not be there, but the 25 an hour, you can definitely get that maybe even more locally in Atlanta. And this is about what's best for the family. And to Jade's point, she's absolutely right. We're not $300,000 in consumer debt. We're just, we want to pay the house off and you guys are going to be able to do that with discipline and steady, steady getting after it. So that's what we think think i i hope i hope he's not mad at us

i don't think he needs a i don't think he needs a excuse to travel the country right now with a three-year-old he was just looking on the bright side you know that's a dude comment yeah that's not a knock on him like that's that's the way guys think we go oh you know i mean i can stop for snacks yeah i mean i get to go out, and then next month I'm out here. That's just a classic dude response. That's funny. It's all about experience, adventure. Oh, yeah, here you go.

It's like the three-year-olds at home. I'm like, that's going to get old real fast. Well, she's carrying a full-time job. Heck yeah. So I'm with you on that. It's time to be home. Half the year? Half the year, half the year. That's a lot of time. And listen, I'm the guy right now that's getting ready to say

goodbye to my firstborn. And folks, I'm in the middle of like this whole, everybody's sick. All young, young couples hate hearing people like me go, it goes fast. But I'm telling you. I heard your voice in my head last night, Ken, saying it goes fast. It does. Because my kids took me for a ride last night. They made me so mad. And I heard your voice. Prince, your oldest, it ain't going to be long.

I promise you it's going to go fast. So hang in there. Hang in there, mama bear. You got good kids, though. I do. They're excellent. They're the best. Excellent human beings.

All right, we'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside the phone number for you to jump in for you to talk about your life, specifically your money, your work and income, and your relationships. It's 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Heidi now in Phoenix, Arizona. Heidi, how can we help? Hi, Ken. Hi, Jade.

It's great to talk to you today. I listen to the show every single day. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I'm very excited. I have gone through Financial Peace University twice, too, so I'm on board with the system. Nice. So I'm 57, divorced, and a single mom to a 28-year-old with autism who lives with me.

And my question is, and I have some more background to share, but to get right to the meat of it, as a 57-year-old without high-level income skills, Cause I don't have a bachelor's or anything. Um, I'm wondering if I should return to school to get at least an associate degree or get additional training in my field to increase my income. Um, I've never made more than $20 an hour. And at my age, should I focus on working multiple jobs or try to find more lucrative work through additional training and schooling? And I do not have the cash to go to get a bachelor's, cash only. Let's start with what field have you been in? I do home-based care services for the autistic community.

I got into that because of my son. Okay. And then I thought you mentioned kind of laying out the scenarios, the associates, bachelors, or additional training. What, if any, additional training could you do in the field that you're in? And then what would that do for you financially as far as income? Okay. So some of the jobs I've looked into to become a registered behavior therapist, which is a step up from what I'm doing, pays about $22 to $25 an hour. And most of the companies have 40 hours of paid training. It's only paid at a minimal wage kind of thing, but it is paid, so I don't have to pay for it.

I'd really like to be a board-certified behavior analyst. Those are the ones who write the program, So they're at the top of the league. They make 80 to 100K, but that requires a master's, which I'm nowhere near getting. So we got to take that off the list. So, so what, what is the next level up then with training and what would that cost you? Um, beyond the one that is paid for training? Yeah. I mean i mean um i'm not sure there's a lot of steps in between the only one i've looked into is the one that pays 22 to 25 an hour slightly more than i make now yeah and is that worth it i guess that's what i'm trying to figure out like if you go through all that even though they pay for it is that i mean that's a that's a bump but it's not

like a significant bump no but it is a step in that direction. Right. I just don't know how far I could take it. So instead of me continuing to ask you, I think that's your homework. One of your homework items is what does the ladder look like? So we've got the paid training. I understood that. Is there something beyond that?

What would that cost you? Because I'm presuming that any of those steps are going to cost way less and take way less time than a degree, correct? Yes, I don't know if it's paid beyond this 40 hours of initial training or if I go higher, it becomes something I have to pay for. No, I know. I would have to find that out. That's what you need to find out. Because what we're trying to do here, Heidi, is we want to see what our potential pathways are to making more income. Well, can I ask a question, Heidi? So you're doing the autistic home care. Do you have several clients, and it just depends on the week who you go to visit, or do you kind of have a set couple of families that you go see?

How does that work? I have a set couple of families that I go see. So the hours are somewhat steady. So my question for you, I'm always going to look on the entrepreneur side. If you're making $20 an hour and you know what the job is, and it's a couple of families that you work with, what keeps you from going out on your own and charging a higher dollar per hour rate? You're basically cutting out the middleman and you're offering the same care and you're in charge and you're in your own boss. You're an expert. Yeah, I don't know because these are kids who are, they're state funded companies that I work for. So these these they're funded by the state and and so that's

what's paying for the whole program i don't know if that would work with me on my own right so they're providing like a curriculum they're providing uh tools and products and things like that for you to use and how much are the families paying out-of-pocket much, if any at all, for these services? No, not that I know. If they are, I'm not aware of it. That's the challenge. Okay, that's the challenge. Got it. They get hours based on like respite and habilitative care because there's different types of care that I do.

Some is more involved than others. All right, I'm going to throw a scenario at you real quick and see if you're interested, okay? What if I told you that for less than $15,000, you could learn a completely new skill that would set you up to make starting somewhere between $65,000 to $70,000 with a path to six figures and you wouldn't have to have any previous experience? Would that interest you? Yes. Okay. I really think you ought to consider technology. Bethel Tech, I've endorsed Bethel Tech forever. They've trained so many people. Ramsey Solutions actually hires Bethel Tech to train people in our building who want to move

into tech jobs who've never done tech before. So that's how much we believe them in an organization. They've got a nine-month program. It's online, and it's less than $15,000. And you could save up for that, maybe even cash flow your way through that. I don't know your situation, but that is learning any type of coding. It could be cybersecurity. I'd really like you to call them and talk to them. Betheltech.net is the web address. But call them and interview them and talk through the situation

because they're training people who've never done any tech work at all. And that's just one option. I'm not saying put all your eggs in that basket, but that is an alternative opportunity for training, for you to set yourself up in a field that is always going to have demand. So that's just one option. That's outside of the world you've been in. But I think that's what you've got to start looking at is where is there a low bar for time and money to get certified that doesn't require a degree?

Because you've already said, I can't do a bachelor's degree. I can't afford it. So that's why that came to mind is something to at least kick the tire. So I'd at least call them because that's what you need right now are options to increase your income without having to pay a fortune to get qualified, right? Mm-hmm. So that's just one option. It may seem scary, but I don't think it is if you actually look into it. The other side of this is—

Well, it's not in my wheelhouse at all. I mean, I know you're saying it's different, but I am wired to be a caregiver. Okay, that's what I needed to know. I think there's something where you can, I truly, maybe not exactly what you're doing now, but I think there's something you can do that you're kind of striking out on your own. And it's you providing, here's the services I do, and I'm working with special needs, and I'm working with special needs and I'm coming into your home and I'm taking some of the burden off of you I think there's something there I don't know the insurances around that I don't know the ins and outs of that but you do and I think that

I think there's something there think about it spitball it around in your own mind can give you a really great option as well well but now that now that, but let me also say this, the fact that you love caregiving, I mean, I get that. And so I don't want to push you into something that just has no, you know, no value to the results of the work. But I would say I like where Jade is going, but the landscape, like I gave you some homework at the start of the call. You've got to go get those answers. Cause right now I think you're coming to us and you're going, I, should I go to school? And it's like, you need to know what all the pathways are above where you are now. Explore that.

But I'm going to go, if you can't start a business on your own because of the funding and all that, that can get really state regulations. That can be weird. But I like where Jade was going. I just wonder if you can't create a position within an organization in Phoenix where they're serving this community in different ways than maybe you have, but you bring a lot to the table. And it's almost, could you create your own position and ideate within another organization, all for the purpose of creating greater value and getting paid more. Does that make sense? I think so. You're saying create a position that doesn't yet exist? Potentially. And here's what I mean by that. You got to find out who is in the Phoenix area that is serving

that group of people that you want to serve, right? Oh, there's a, there's a ton of companies. I know. I put my resume out there. Yeah. My point is get to know people in those organizations, find out what they're doing. Do they need somebody? Maybe you go, Hey, I can do that is my point. It's not that you have to completely create it from scratch, but I'm pushing you to get so connected in Phoenix, in this area of serving these specific folks that you want to serve, you would be shocked at how opportunities will pop up. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Jade Warshaw is beside me. I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here together for you this hour, 888-825-5225. Our scripture of the day comes from Hebrews 10, verses 35 and 36, so do not throw away your confidence. It will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that

when you have done the will of God, you will receive what He has promised. And our quote of the day from Teddy Roosevelt, believe you can and you're halfway there. All right, to Salt Lake City we go, and Julie is there. Julie, how can we help? Hi, thanks for taking my call. So my husband and I would like to help each of our four adult children with a down payment on a home. They're all in their... Oh, are you there? We want to give each of them $50,000 and just wanting to make sure that we are in a position that that's a good thing for us to do and that it's not going to hurt our long-term goals, but also be able to, you know, gift them this and if that's a good thing to do.

Yeah. Why is it, you tell me why it's not a good thing to do. Well, I think it's a good thing to do. I just think it is a lot of money. I mean, we're talking $200,000. So I just want to make sure that we're in the position that it's okay and not going to wreck our retirement or anything like that. Okay. So let's talk about you guys' numbers and see, because it's four kids. So each of them are getting 50,000, correct? That's our plan. We do think we would think that we need to treat them each the same, but we'd love to give them more if we are able to do that. Okay. How old are the, can you tell us the ages of the kids?

Sure. So we've got 25, 27, 29, and 30. Wow. Okay. And let's talk about you and your husband's financial situation. So are you Baby Steps Millionaires? Yes, we are. We followed your program for many, many years. We're 54. We're

completely debt-free. We have worked really hard to never be in debt. Right now, we have about $1,600,000 in investments. That changes by the day. $320,000 in like a traditional IRA. Okay. About $240,000 in high-yield savings. And then we have like $40,000 to $50,000 in like emergency fund. So I think what we would do is we would take the high-yield savings and that's where we would give the kids, you know, their $50,000 each. Yeah, it's already there. It is already there um but you are gonna

have a you are gonna have a gift tax on it so be prepared for that i wondered about that is there so is there a way to gift them only so much each year um and have them hold it or yeah we're giving them 50 so each year you can give 16,000. I think check these numbers because it may have gone up in the past year, but each of you has a limit, you and your husband. So last I checked, it was 16,000 for you, 16,000 for him. And then there's a lifetime limit of like 12.6 million, which is, I mean, you're not going to do that. No. So just kind of know that each year if you exceed that, there is a gift tax on that. Okay.

So maybe it would be better to give them part of it before they're even ready to get their home, just to avoid that tax? Yeah, or yeah, just spread it out is what I would do because it's per recipient. Okay. So you could give, so basically each of you could do whatever the number is. So 32.

It's up to 18,000. It's 18,000. Okay. So you can give each one of them 36,000 this year. This year. And then the next year you can fill in the gap and do the rest. Okay. And that way you're avoiding that. So that's kind of the only loophole thing to consider there. But I love that you're doing this. I think that this is generationally, these are the things that create wealth within a generation to be able to say,

hey, I'm passing this along. I have got this brokerage. It's going to have X amount of dollars for you or, hey, I'm going to do your down payment. I mean, this is really how you help set up the next generation to do the things that you did without having to go through all the hoops that you had to jump through. Yeah, and it seems like the kids these days feel like they're never going to be able to afford a home. And we feel like if we can gift them a nice chunk down, that will help them feel like they can actually do it. You said your oldest was like 30? Yes.

So they don't have a house right now? No, actually, that's the one that lives internationally so he he's going to probably be a little bit down the road till we will help him with the home but actually the youngest one um he's the one who's house shopping now so it really got us thinking we need to like have a plan so we treat every one of them the same yeah yeah i i love it and i i would talk to your tax pro, you know, and just double, triple check everything. How can we do that? It just really irritates me that the government thinks

they can put a limit on how much money I'm going to give somebody and that they're going to tax me on my money that I'm going to give to you. Uncle Sam, we already paid tax on. Yeah, right. I love it. You guys got it in the bank. So I think Jade's giving very wise advice here on avoiding taxes. I'm with her. I hate taxes. So thanks for the call, Julie. That's

great. Great, great, great heritage there. Mike is up next in Chicago. Mike, how can we help? Hi, can you hear me? Yes, sir. It's an honor to talk to you both. Long-time listener. Thank you. You know, there's similarities to the last call. I'll get straight to the point. So my wife and I, sorry, I'm a little bit nervous. You're doing great. You're doing great. We got you.

I'm nervous, too. I'm sitting next to Jade, so we're okay. Thank you. My wife and I are both 34. We have three kids, young children, between one and six, and we've done very well for ourselves over the past 13 years. Our net worth is almost $3 million. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. The only debt we have is our primary residence, And I guess I'd be what you call Dave-ish. We could write a check tomorrow and pay it off. But it's split between that $3

million is split between retirement accounts, stocks we hold in a taxable brokerage account, and then home equity, cash and cars. We've just had very successful careers in demand technical fields. We've risen the ladder and we've saved like 40% of our salary. Let me get to the point. I'm looking to set my children up for success. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm looking to set my children up for success financially. And I know, you know, our orientation is like the primary focus is teaching them the value of the dollar, you know, instilling a great work ethic, focusing on behaviors. But from an account perspective, you know, we're going to use a 529 to pay for all of their undergraduate what would you recommend beyond a 529 and this

is why i said it was kind of similar to the last call like yeah we were considering one-time gifts as adults perhaps setting up a trust an upman or an ugma i mean you could do i typically recommend i like the 529 for the college and just know that if you tend to if you happen to overfund it over time, that money can pass through to a Roth IRA. It would go through at whatever max limit is for the year. So you can't exceed that as it transfers over. But it does. It does transfer over to the beneficiary. So keep that in mind. You could do a custodial Roth IRA for them and start opening up money there. You could do like the last couple did and say, we're just going to keep some money aside and a high yield savings account. And when the time comes, you can decide when you're going to start putting that money aside. Right now, it's great because the rates are so high. It's almost like if you don't want to have any risk attached to that money, there's a

way to do it there. Or if you're concerned with the custodial and the fact that when they're 18, they kind of have access to it, you could just set it aside in a personal brokerage account and say, when the time comes, we're going to transfer this over. So you've got a lot of options. How much money, like dollar amount, are you wanting to give them when the time comes? That's a great question. I think our current thinking is perhaps 250 to 500,000 per kid, but you know, that's 20 years in the future. And I'm worried maybe that's too much money. That could be a corrupting influence. I'm not sure. Well, is that, is that including the education as well? No, it wouldn't be.

That wouldn't be including that. The education would be, yeah, we'd pay for a four-year college, whatever that is. And then, you know, our thought was like that $250 to $500 per kid kind of represents like a 10-year head start. Yeah, I think that it's up to you and your wife. Some of this could be, I don't know if some of this is an inherited amount that you're hoping for, if some of this, but you've got options. I think we're talking about custodials, we're talking about brokerage accounts, and then we're talking about 529s that possibly you overfund intentionally to go into Roth IRAs. I think you've got some options. Sit down with a SmartVestor Pro to find out tax-wise what's best for you with your children. Good

stuff. Thank you, Jade Warshaw. Thank you, James Childs, for keeping us on the air. And to the rest of you, thank you for listening and watching. This is The Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind. And that's EveryDollar. The EveryDollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with EveryDollar for free right now. Just go to ramseysolutions.com slash EveryDollar and download the app today. That's ramseysolutions.com slash EveryDollar.