The Ramsey Show - If You Don’t Have Money You Can’t Help Anyone Else

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

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From Ramsay Network, this is The Ramsay Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by the the winner only Jade Warshaw, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. You call in and we'll do our best to help you take the right next step. That's all we can do. Our best.

Let's do it. Tony joins us up first in Grand Rapids, Michigan. What's going on, Tony? How can we help? Hey, hello. First of all, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. I've got myself in such a mess that I am just so stressed out and scared about where the future lies here. I've been

watching you guys a show for about a month now. And I'm getting with everything that I can as fast as I can to do what you guys are. Well I'm proud of you for at least taking a step to go I don't want to live like this anymore. What can I do about it? No, not at all. What's happening in your world? What's taking place? Well I'm a truck driver. Uh, I, last year I made about 142,000 and the wife works too. She, she probably makes a 25 to 30 probably. Um, I've, I've, I've got some bad knees and had some surgeries done last summer on both of them, uh, that put me out for about six months and I went back to work

and, oh, about three months was good but then the next three was back to being bad again so going up and down a ramp and delivering inside the yeah sounds like we need a different career yeah so I ended up getting an easier job, but I went from, like I said, 142 to about a 55 or 60,000. So now obviously since Memorial Day area, it's just went downhill and I'm so far behind and behind John now. How much debt do you have? Well, the way I had it up is about 110. So you got $110,000 of debt and now doing the job you're doing now,

you guys are still making 90,000. If you're making 60 and she's making 30, that's still a great income between the two of you. I think it's just that you're not used to it. Well, you probably picked up all these debt payments when you were making bank, thinking, well, it'll always be this way. Well, exactly.

Yeah, that's the American way, Tony. You're not alone. I picked up two newer, well, I bought one brand new truck, but a couple of years ago about a 2018 truck, but a Ranger best boat, which I know Dave really likes that. Well, the good news is you also have a lot you can sell when you've got two trucks and a boat. Well exactly, and I've already got my for sale sign on the F-150. A sign is going on the boat.

Okay, tell us the numbers. What's the boat, what do you owe on the boat and what's it worth? Well, it's a Ranger, it's a 52.5 is what I still owe on it. 52,500? Yes. Okay. And I still owe on it. 52,500? Yes. Okay. And I just called the dealer and there's,

he's telling me that they're going for roughly 40 to 50. So you're upside down slightly. Yep. So I'm upside down a little bit on that. And then the truck, I owe 12.5 for, and Kelly Blue Book and Edmunds is telling me it's right around, I think it was $10,000 to $14,000. Okay, good.

So I'm hoping to... So you could break even on both of these. ... break even on that one. Yeah. And yeah. And that, I mean, that clears $64,000 of debt right there. It's over half. Exactly. Does that make you feel better? Oh yeah. And that clears $64,000 of debt right there. Exactly.

Does that make you feel better? Hey, don't glaze over that because that's a huge thing right there. What do those payments add up to? If you take the boat payment plus the truck payment, what's that every month? Well, the boat payment is 6.10 a month and the F-150 is 7.04.

Wow. And my Silverado, I was gonna say I owe 34,000 on that. And Kelly Blue Book is saying that's about 20 to 23. So I'm really upset. You're under one on one. But I mean to know that you could clear, to know that you could get back a little over $1,300 in your pocket just by selling the boat in the truck,

that's gotta. Most definitely, most definitely. So that let... I'm so ready to do it. Are you behind on any of these payments? Yes, I am. Which ones? The boat and the F-150, I'm about a month,

month and a half behind. The Silverado is three months behind. Goodness gracious. Is anybody... So your phone's blowing up. 1-800-PAYME is going hard. Yeah, are they coming after you? Are they about to repo this thing? Where are you at?

I talked to them. I made a payment about a week ago and they said that'll take me out of the repo status for maybe a couple of weeks. Okay, good. Now let's talk about your wife's income. What is she doing right now for work? She's a security guard.

Is this part-time? No, it's full-time. Is she able to pick up extra hours? No, not at that job. Okay, so somebody, one of you guys is going to need to pick up some extra hours doing something ASAP. I don't care if you go over to Walmart and work night shifts.

You do some security shifts. Yeah. She actually even called them yesterday. Okay. And if she can even go to work a retail job making 20, well, she just got an $8,000 raise. Because the holidays are coming up. There's gonna be so many options.

Seasonal work. It's already started. So that's gonna be your goal tonight. One of my homeworks for you guys is when you get off the line, you and your wife sit down tonight and make a list of all the places that you're gonna apply and make a number goal and say, okay, honey, I want you bringing in $500 extra a month.

I'm gonna bring in 500 extra, like sit down and put real numbers to this because when it, the realer it looks, the more motivating it is. But if it's very vague, you don't really know what you're going after. So make that very crystal clear. What other, is there anything else that's on fire debt wise? Because I love that you can sell some things to clear it.

Can you tell us about the other 60,000 of debt that you've got? Well, I've got 3,500 on a visa. I've got like 8,000 for taxes for the last three years is my guess. Okay, we're gonna move that. About 8,000. We're gonna put that at the top of the list.

That goes to the top of your list. That's your next priority is the IRS because they can screw up your life, Tony. So we get current. Exactly. We get current, we do the taxes, and in the meanwhile we're selling the boat and truck. That's the order of all of this happening.

So keep telling us, what else do you have? Well, I got medical and collections, but I don't know the amounts of those. I need to run my reports and actually write down everything, you know what I mean? Yeah, let's do some homework. You can go to annualcreditreport.com and pull your credit report from all three bureaus

and have your wife do the same thing. It'll take you just a few minutes to do. And that's gonna give you guys a true financial picture of where we're at, how much debt we have, where do we owe money, and what's the status. And then we can develop a plan. We're gonna help you with that plan, Tony. I'm gonna gift you one year of every dollar premium

so you can actually list out your income, list out the expenses. You and your wife spit shake, here's the plan, we're gonna stick to it. And by the way, those medical- I have a question about that. Sure. I have a question about the dollar, the average dollar.

I actually downloaded that. And how do you actually start it when you're behind? Okay, so that's a great question. The same way that you would start it if you aren't behind. You still go through and you add your income to the top because it gives you a space to add all the times you're paid and what those amounts are. And then you go through Tony and list everything you could actually spend money on. And George and I did a really great video. It's on YouTube. If you go over to the Ramsey Solutions, Ramsey Show page,

you can find it there. You can do it in five minutes. But remember your homework, get current on everything first. Number two, you're going to settle the tax bill. Number three, you're going to sell the boat in the truck. Number four, settle those medical bills that are in collections. Settle them for pennies on the dollar. Okay. Don't pay full price. And sell everything until you're what's known as a minimalist. It's very trendy right now. And you're going to be on the other side of this very soon, Tony. We're rooting for you. Thanks for calling in. This is the Ramsey show. Hey you guys I'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know

which ones I mean but I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members And I'm proud to endorse Fair Winds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fair Winds has been in business for over 75 years and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. You can feel secure because your deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to $250,000. It's easy to join and Fairwinds partners with more than 5,000 credit union locations around the country,

so you can bank in person wherever you live. But if you prefer the online experience you can log on to Fairwinds and do anything you could do at a physical location. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more and while you're there look at the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances that's fair wins, f-a-i-r-w-i-n-d-s dot org slash Ramsey welcome back to the Ramsey show I'm George Campbell joined by Jade Warshaw this hour open phones phones at 888-825-5225.

Well, Jade, we've got an exciting interview that released everywhere today, and you don't wanna miss this. A few weeks ago, Dave and I sat down with Ben Shapiro to have a real life conversation about work, family, building wealth, the American dream, and the interview is now available on YouTube, podcast, The Ramsey Network app.

Go check this out. This was a long form interview. We went about 49 minutes, I believe, and it was a riveting conversation and I accidentally ribbed Ben Shapiro pretty hard. So it's worth listening just for that moment. I'll take your word for it, George. There's an exclusive extra that you can only watch

in the Ramsey Network app where Shapiro exposes major shifts in the media and family dynamics in the current culture. Go check it out. Ramsey Network app, YouTube, podcasts everywhere, or you can click the link in the description. Let's get to the phones. Mary is in Charleston, South Carolina. Mary, how can we help?

Good afternoon. Can you hear me well? Yes. We can. Hey, I was explaining that I inherited two houses. We got out of probate beginning of March and the end of March I got in a really crazy car accident. So one of the houses is totally free and clear because he bought it cash.

The other one, there's some money. There's no good on it. Um, I decided cause, um, I was using all my money to pay for everything that I'm, I'm really, really low on funds now. And so I decided to, um, try to sell the other house. Um, I was going to use it as my warehouse if I'm paying for a warehouse every month. The paid for house or the mortgaged house you're going to use as a warehouse? The paid for house. Because we got it in like 2018.

He paid like $30,000 for it. It was like a ten houses for $250,000 deal. Thankfully he only bought this one even though I didn't even want to buy this one. Mary, Mary, who passed away? He was my partner. We ran a nonprofit together, but I took care of him. Okay. And he passed away, he was 80. Oh.

And so- How old are you? A lot of things happened. I just turned 52. Okay. I'm sorry for your loss. That can't have been easy. No, it was a really bad situation. It got really worse. And I was trying to take care of everything for him.

And thinking that he would get better at least. Because everything is up in Rhode Island and I'm trying to... Oh, this is long distance. Oh, because you're in South Carolina. See, y'all don't have time for a crazy story, but... How can we help today? I want to make sure we give you the right next step. What's going on with your finances that you're so desperate?

Well, I have kids, which they're all adults, and I'm a Ryan, even my children. I've been debt-free for a good while. Are you debt-free now? Myself, technically, yes. I've got like a, right now, like car insurance and my cell phone bill. I got myself all the way down to just debt. Okay.

But you don't have any loans? No, sir. No, sir. Okay. I had a debt before my brother went to college. I had paid you don't have any loans. No sir, no sir. Okay. I had a debt before my brother went to college. I had paid off my student loan and everything. So why are you so desperate to sell this house? Well, because of the car accident,

I haven't been working and we were running a nonprofit and I haven't been doing anything. So I've been using all of our reserves, all the money I have. So you've been living off of savings and you have $0 coming in every month. How much savings did you start with, and how much do you have left? About between 80 and 90?

Is what you started with. OK. And what do you have left? Truthfully? Yeah. We're not judging you. Probably under... No. No reason to lie to us. No, no, I don't. I don't know I'm crazy. I found that out. $200 maybe. Maybe two, maybe four? So we're about down to zero. It's about $400.

Let's call it zero. And you have no income coming in every month and you're unable to work? Well, I'm not fit for duty. I know my brain works and I could probably do things but I can't stand really well and walking. I can't take more than six steps without being out of work. Have you filed for disability? No, sir, I didn't think about that.

I'm trying to get my daughter to file for disability. And that's what I spend my money that. I'm trying to get my daughter to file for disability with MS, you asked what will I spend my money on? I spend my money on my kids, but she's no longer working, so help me out. But you don't have any money to spend on the kids, so we need to either figure out something that you can do with the nature of your disability, or we need to file for disability for now.

Yeah, because here's the thing, if you go and sell one of these houses, even if you have the cash, if you're funding your lifestyle, which is bringing in zero income, and if you're funding lifestyles and enabling to use your words, your grown children, you're gonna blow through that money lickety split,

and then you're gonna have nothing left to liquidate. So to George's point, we gotta find something that's work from home, that's call center, customer service, something where if you needed to sit in your swivel chair for eight hours a day and help people over the phone with your Stanley Cup, you can do that.

And I think that you can, like you said, your brain works perfectly fine, you're perfectly coherent. I think that in all of this, like your insight is what's wounded, like your emotions, you've been through a ride with losing your partner, you're going through some things with your grown children.

And honestly, it just sounds like your life has been turned upside down. And I think that is where the frustration and just kind of that feeling like you're stuck in the mud, right? So I would not turn this into a warehouse. I think we do need to liquidate these houses. What I would do is go to ramsaysolutions.com,

click on Trusted Services, you'll see SmartVestor Pro there. You need to connect with someone who can help you manage and invest this money wisely. Because what could happen is you sell the houses, put all this money into an investment account that then spins off enough to cover your expenses every month.

So that's what I would be doing while filing for disability if you can truly do no work whatsoever. Because we need something coming in. I don't want you on the streets. And you've got to cut off the the if you've got healthy adult children, you've got to cut off this supply. I thought I heard her say that somebody had MS or something like that. But yeah, whatever that means,

you've got to figure out a way to help them become self-regulatory and that you can do your own finances on your side, too, because you can't. If you don't have any money, you can't help anybody else, George. That's what it goes down to. So sorry, Mary. All right, let's talk to Mark in Greensboro, North Carolina. Up next, Mark, how can we help?

Hey, how you doing? We're doing well, how are you? Awesome. Man, thank you guys for what you do. I've been listening to this show longer than you guys have been on it. Wow. That's not long. Me too. Not long. I thought been listening to this show longer than you guys have been on it. Wow. Me too.

That's not long. Not long. I thought you were gonna say since it's been on the air. But that's cool. What's your question today, Mark? What's your riddle for us? Okay, so should be a pretty simple question. I've got a surface question and then a deeper question.

The surface question I know the answer to, and that's should I close my credit card account? Yes. So I think we all know the answer to that question. But here's why I'm asking it. Obviously, I know that the goal is to have a zero debt or zero credit score. I look forward to that day, but I have a mortgage. So that's not going to happen until I get rid of the mortgage.

And my concern is that I'm plant. We are probably going to be moving in the next few years, which means that I'm going to need that credit score in able to get a different mortgage is it going to hurt my credit and the only reason I'm asking is because and I probably spend more time on credit karma than I should is it going to hurt it because I've had that one card for over it's the only card I have left and I've had it for 20 years. And is it going to hurt my credit score when I close that card?

Not enough to keep you from buying a house at a good rate. It might initially ding it a little bit, but you paying your mortgage on time. It'll climb right back up. It's gonna climb right back up. You stay current on those mortgage payments. And then when you sell your house and buy another one, well, the score is not gonna disappear instantly.

And so in the meantime, that score is gonna still sit there. And when you go get another mortgage, they're gonna use that score. And by the way, Credit Karma, let me tell you something. They try to play you because I remember George checking my Credit Karma score after we had paid off all of our debt thinking, oh, it's gonna go to zero, it's gonna go to zero. And I kept thinking, man, my score, it's kind of starting to be bad,

but it's not rolling to zero, it's going to go to zero. And I kept thinking, man, my score, it's kind of starting to be bad, but it's not rolling to zero. They play you because they want you to take out more credit to increase your score. Cause guess what? That's how they make their money, Mark. Their whole goal is to get you into more debt. They don't give you an accurate score. If you go and actually like to a real reputable source, you'll find your true score. Oh yes. Yep. So be aware of sites like Credit Karma,

because remember they want you to engage in more credit activity. And they'll try to scare you with notifications and emails. Hey, your score is dipping. You gotta take out more credit. It turned out my score was really to zero, but they weren't reporting it that way. So be careful with those sites.

It's a terrible scoreboard. If you want a scoreboard, use a net worth calculator. Okay. Not a credit score. That tells you nothing about your financial life other than how good you are at playing kissy face with the bank. And I don't know about you, but they got that old man moth breath.

No thank you. No thank you. This is the Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is the season for Halloween. It's October, we're wearing costumes and we're wearing masks. So if you haven't started planning your costume yet,

get on it. And while you're thinking about it, I want you to be honest. A lot of us hide ourselves. We hide our true selves behind costumes and masks all the time. We do this at work, we do this around our friends, we do this around our families.

We even do this when we look at ourselves in the mirror. I know because I've been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding behind masks and costumes all the time, if you find yourself hiding from your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can be honest, where you can talk to somebody else and reflect and learn and you can accept all the parts of yourself over time and start living an authentic life. Masks and costumes should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. And if you're considering therapy, try calling my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is a hundred percent online therapy.

You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for you and your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. Plus you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's better h e l p dot com slash deloney. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Campbell joined by Jade Warshaw open phones at triple eight, eight to five, five to two, five. Heather's up next just down the road here in Nashville, Tennessee. Heather, how can we help you? Hi, me and my husband have tried to do a pretty good job with budgeting so far. And now,

I mean, just kind of budgeting living within our means. Now we're about to be parents in about a little over a month. Woohoo! Congrats. Thank you. It's very exciting. So we're just kind of looking for some advice on like how to budget with a new baby and like how to care for this new child and still be able to live within our means kind of with all the new Expenses that come with a baby Absolutely. Well George you're closer to this. I'm the newest dad. I've got a Almost 14 month old Heather So I've had a you know some experience now budgeting with a baby and the truth is there's an upfront cost

That's like it feels overwhelming because we gotta get the stroller and the car seat and maybe another car seat for the other car. And the beautiful thing is if you have some good people in your life, some family, friends, they throw the shower, you've got friends that just had babies, reduce, reuse, recycle. The amount of new crap we think we have to buy

that you can just borrow or take from a friend as a hand-me-down, it's amazing how much money you can save. So I was gonna say hit that registry link and send it to everyone you know. And the registry link as well. So that covers a lot of the upfront to where it's not as overwhelming.

And then on the ongoing budgeting side, the things to think through obviously are the basics. We're talking diapers and formula. A lot of diapers, a lot of formula, unless you're feeding. And so those are the things to add into the budget. Yeah, the idea is to feed unless we can't. Are you guys in a good financial spot where this is not gonna be like a giant curve ball?

That's what we don't know. We're like, we're right on that edge where we're fine right now, but we don't know how this baby's gonna, if it's gonna upset anything. Well, do you have any savings? We're talking like, let's say a few hundred bucks is added to your budget for now.

If there's daycare expenses, that's gonna be the biggest one in the budget if you go that route. So what's the game plan for that? Yeah. Well, thankfully my mom and his mom have agreed to take care of childcare for the first few months.

Wow. They've made that commitment and they've made that promise to us. Yeah, that's a blessing. We have a wonderful support system Yeah, and you guys have the money set aside for any hospital costs and things like that Savings. Yeah, that's what that's the thing. We've adjusted our budget for already, but we're just kind of like, okay What else do we need to kind of prepare for? Yeah, but if you have the out-of-pocket max, you know that number with your insurance, we know that's the max we're gonna pay. Beyond that, it's what are the things that we need as we leave the hospital and come home?

And truthfully, people think they need to have like a decked out nursery. No, you don't. My baby didn't even see that nursery for like six months. My baby initially slept in a pack and play that probably cost $30 that somebody got us and they were in that for a long time before they even went into their crib. And we borrowed a bassinet from a co-worker for the first six months.

Uh-huh. And they don't really do much. So much of what we got didn't come into play until like three to six months later. That's right. And truthfully, Heather, we're in a good financial spot. I still went to Facebook Marketplace to get the like recliner and the crib and all of these things because I did not wanna pay retail price. And so there's a lot of ways you can make this, you can make a baby as expensive as you want,

you can do it as affordably as you want. And so do you guys have any debt? Just some college debt, but we're kind of putting that on hold for the moment. My debt isn't gaining any interest right now, and his debt isn't because of the Biden administration and kind of the weird things that have been going on there. So we're just kind of like, okay, we can pause on that

for now as we adjust to life with the new baby and then get back to that when we're comfortable. Yeah, that's the move. You're doing the right thing. We call it stork mode, where you pause the baby steps and just stack up cash. So how much do you have in savings? Yeah.

Right now, I think probably collectively with all of our accounts, probably close to 8,000. Great. And that's gonna continue for the next month. Yeah. And so another, I guess kind of the other question I have is like, after the baby comes, kind of like how, is there like a good piece of advice for how long to kind of like stay home before going back to work. It's up to you and what you

guys decide that you can afford and what your goals are. And what your you know workplace policies are. Do you have a maternity leave? I work for myself I just teach private music lessons and then my husband just started a new job about a month ago. Thankfully they're willing to work with him with the baby and everything so it's been a little tricky trying to figure that out but yeah so we're kind of his is more the kind of like okay how long is he able to take off before he has to go back. I mean I'd say set a plan sit down and set a plan but also hold it loosely like I remember I said I was gonna be back after I'd been music as well.

I was back then. And I remember thinking, oh, I'll be back. You know, I just need eight weeks. And it ended up going from eight weeks to 12 weeks because you just don't know. So I'd say set a plan. One of the things is a C-section, it's gonna take longer to recover.

So I'm hoping and praying that everything goes super smoothly and that it's a very quick recovery. But also we got a plan for if this takes a month or two or three or four, and praying that everything goes super smoothly and that it's a very quick recovery. But also we got a plan for if this takes a month or two or three or four, we got to be prepared for that too. Yeah, I've already told my students since my babies do around Thanksgiving, I've told them, okay, from Thanksgiving on

I'm not going to be doing lessons until sometime in January, maybe February, depending on how long I need. You know something you could do, my creative brain just opened up real quick. Something you could do is between now and then, create something that's online or like that they can have while you're gone, but it doesn't require you being there.

So maybe it's a little webinar series that they can do or like just a little course that they can take while you're not there, but it still brings in some money. I don't know, just a thought from a fellow music creative. But it sounds like you guys have this dialed in. You got eight grand in savings, family's there to support.

You've got a great system going on. I assume you already did like the shower and stuff, right? Yeah, so we actually, we have probably 80 to 90% of what we need. Amazing, and probably 2000 more items than you even will ever use or need. That's kind of what happened. I know, we definitely have some things that we don't need,

but will definitely be fun to use. Well, then you can return it, get credit, give cards and use that toward the things that really matter, which is really just diapers. So many diapers. You know what, George? Nobody warned me. Okay, I think I have the opposite.

I think that so many people talked about the cost of diapers so much. Well, it wasn't the cost? It was the amount you go through. The amount, okay, yeah. I think in the end I was like, the diapers weren't the thing for me. It was everything else.

Yeah. It was, yeah. Well, my wife is fairly crunchy. So she wants like the European brand formula that's like $4,000 an ounce. It's like liquid gold. And so we got a budget extra on the camel family for her crunchiness.

Here's what you need to budget extra for, mama. Ooh, that's a liquid gold. And so we got a budget extra on the camel family for her crunchiness. Here's what you need to budget extra for, mama. Ooh, that's a good one. Mama needs things that are going to make her comfortable during the most uncomfortable months of her life. So it's like- A spa gift card for a massage. Postnatal massage. Yes, get you some nice pajamas, get you the best pump that money can buy that you like like don't just don't forget about mama

During these words on mama splurge on mama Yeah, my wife and she's we got to pay for physical therapy now because her back is jacked up. Oh man carrying the baby Yeah, it's a lot. You gotta get yourself a like a nice like baby carrier. Whatever you decide. Oh man, those days and months. She's like, ah, simpler times. A little bit, I am. Don't let Sam Warshaw see this. He's gonna be like, uh oh. I love it.

All right, let's move on to Wayne in Fort Worth. What's going on, Wayne? How are you doing today? Doing well, how can we help? Yeah, my wife and I are going to need to make a quick move My wife and I are going to need to make a quick move and our situation is that we have no debt and haven't had debt for many years. We have roughly $175,000 in savings plus $500,000 in investment portfolio, $500,000 in other assets that are liquidatable.

Wow. And we have a paid off home that's worth about 425,000. It's incredible. So, yeah, it's pretty cool. I mean, God's been good. And we've been listening to Ramsey's show for, I don't even know how long, 20 plus years. Way to go.

And your baby steps millionaires. That's right, it's been great. My question is, and this is where my wife wanted the Ramsey advice, and I know you guys there are there for that. We need to make this move and it's going to have to have to happen pretty quick. And so I want, you know, the house that we're looking at is 490,000. Our house is worth, you know, even'll live even if liquidated it. We would get 400 back. Yeah Can I?

Two questions one is can I borrow against myself against my own portfolio and use my cash to purchase this other house? While I'm waiting for this one to sell and then just pay myself back, you know, you know I'm saying like yeah, so I thought and pay myself back, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, I thought I'd borrow. And what's a reasonable percentage of net worth that you should have invested in a home considering it's paid off? And I think I had heard Dave one time said. Wayne, I'm gonna hold you over to this next segment because I love this question

and love the way you're thinking. So hang on the line, we'll be right back with you. Sorry I ran out of time, but I'm going to answer this as soon as we come back. This is The Ramsey Show. My wife Sharon is a major health fanatic so I was excited to tell her that we're partnering with Field of Greens, a fruit and vegetable super drink. Each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens was doctor selected to support your heart, liver, kidneys, and metabolism for healthy weight. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Right before the break, we were talking with Wayne in Fort Worth, Texas.

Let me recap what's going on in Wayne's life. He's crushing it. They're baby steps millionaires, 175,000 in liquid savings, 500,000 in an investment account, 500,000 in other accounts, other things, 425,000 in the house, and they're wondering,

should they purchase a $490,000 house? And if so, how are they gonna do this? So Wayne, is that a fair and accurate summary? Yes, it is. Okay, great. So you had two questions. One was should I sort of borrow against my own investment account?

The word borrow scares me. What you're really doing is saying I'm gonna use a portion of my investments to purchase this home with cash, correct? Plus the equity in your home? Well, I would rather, I could use equity in my home with a bridge loan and cash to do this, or I could use my, truly borrow against my own accounts,

my own brokerage account, just for the short time. So I'm not actually selling assets and taking the tax hit. I would be borrowing against the brokerage account and then utilizing the sale of the home to pay it back, you know, in a matter of a month or two. Why do all the gymnastics when you can just pay cash so easily

with the equity in your home plus plus a little bit of money. I mean, just even from your savings, you could do this. You don't have to touch the investments or borrow against it. Yeah, but then I would have to do a bridge loan. Are you, do you feel good about that? Why? Why? You said it's 490 for the house. You said you'll get probably 400 in net profit

from the sale of yours. So you need an extra 90. There's gonna be a gap of time between making this purchase and the sale of mine. So would you feel comfortable? So you're gonna purchase it first, you're saying, before you sell yours, you need to make this purchase? Yeah, that's right. Do you feel comfortable just taking the

almost $500,000 and paying cash, and then when your other house sells, replenishing it? I mean, not really, because I don't you know, we would be taking a pretty big Hit on pulling out money out of the investment portfolio. You know What are the other assets you said you had when you said you had 500 000 invested You said you had another 500 000 in liquid investments. I'm assuming When you say liquid i'm assuming hey, I can get to this and it's not really going to cause a problem. Yeah, I can move it, but it's probably a three month window on that stuff. Yeah. You know,

like, you know, sports cards, that kind of thing. So it's, yeah. Like collectibles. Okay, I see. Okay. I know that market very well and I know that that really is, you the funds But if you have to liquidate it in a quick turnaround, okay I'd be fortunate why is there a gap between buying this new home and selling yours? I well When we put this home up for sale, you know, it's gonna be a matter of anywhere from

Three weeks to three months, you know You just don't know for sure how long it will take to move it. And the place I'm moving to is in another portion of the country. So I need to make that move soon. And then, so I'm kind of like left in this kind of a, and I don't really want to do a short-term rental. And I did find a place that I feel really good about

that was 490. And just for clarity, the reason that you're wanting to borrow against your brokerage versus just take out a conventional mortgage is interest rate, I'm guessing, yes? We just, you know what, we got that thing where we haven't had any debt really in five or six years now, and it's pretty great. And I just don't even wanna like pay the points

on a, or anything, I don't wanna pay the- What, you know, the points on a, you know, or anything. I don't want to pay the- Sure, I get it. What were you saving up and what was the investing for? Cause I like to have a goal when I invest money versus just like having a pile sitting out there. So are you investing in retirement on top of all this? Everything, well, there's the 500,

basically the 500 that's in the brokerage account and the 500 that's in the, you know, collectibles and whatnot. I see all of that as future retirement and not to mention we still have income. We're still you know around 280 a year in regular income now. So I mean the truth the truth of this is just because you've paid off a house doesn't mean you can never have a mortgage again because plenty of people upgrade in house, they buy a starter house, they pay it off. And then when they want to upgrade, they take a small mortgage out.

And the small part of that is relative to their income and net worth, obviously. So there's, you're not evil if you say, I have a paid off house, and I'm going to buy another house knowing that I'm selling this one and I have a mortgage for it. That's your choice. Looking at your numbers, I don't think it'd be the worst thing in the world. But if it were me, I'd want to find a way to take some of the hard earned cash that I have and I'd want to pay for it in cash. Because to your own point, you don't like having payments. And I get that. And even though in this case, it'd be pretty arbitrary. I don't know how quickly your current home will sell, but probably

relatively quickly if it's priced right. And you can make it contingent. A lot of times you can even rent back from the new owner for a month or two until you get into the new house. So there's a lot of things you can do to avoid all of the hoopla. But if you wanted to get a mortgage and then as soon as your house is paid off

and you know, as soon as your house sells, just knock out the mortgage. It's gonna, we're talking like a few months. Yeah. So the interest is not gonna be detrimental here. I agree with that. And the second part of my question was the percentage of net worth,

because at my moderate level of net worth, it's my understanding that, assuming I don't have debt, that you could be up to 50% of net worth value. Yeah, there's no rule there. In our millionaire study, we found that it just happened to be this way, that these Baby Steps millionaires, about a third of their net worth

was tied up in their house. Right. But there's no rule that says, if it's more than 50, be careful, because here's an example, Wayne. I have a paid for home. It's a very large portion of my net worth right now in my early 30s.

Over time, my investment accounts are going to far outweigh the value of my home. But right now, because we were so focused on home and payoff and investments haven't caught up yet, right now I feel it feels lopsided, but it really doesn't matter. The point of that equation is not having too much tied up in the home is that you wanna make sure that you have

income producing assets and your investments are gonna produce income versus your primary home, which produces nothing, it just costs you money. So that's really the thought process. Yeah, this would be roughly a third. So we would be in line. How old are you? 55.

Yeah, and to George's point, that will change. So 10 years from now, your investments have doubled, your home may not have doubled. It may have gone up $100,000. And so I wouldn't worry too much about that. I would just focus on becoming debt, staying debt, staying debt free, investing as much as you can. You could do maxing out all accounts.

I would focus on the tax advantage accounts. It sounds like you guys have focused on the non-retirement accounts. Do you have any 401ks or IRAs? Yeah, we have 401ks, IRAs. It's difficult because the income level's too high for Roth, but we can do backdoor Roth. Yeah, there's mega backdoor for the 401k. And then beyond that, HSA, if you have one of those,

you can invest there as well. Then there's taxable brokers, so. We're doing maximum allotment on every one of those things for the last many years. Oh my goodness. Those are great. Wayne, you are the poster child. We also do 20% to charity, so we're- Excellent. We're doing what, we're following the right, we're in poster child. We also do 20% to charity. So we're doing what we're following.

We're in good position. I'm proud of you. Well, thanks for the call, man. I want to be Wayne when I grow up. That was really good stuff. These are good problems to have. All right, let's get to our question of the day here. Student loan debt is an epidemic.

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So go to yrefy.com slash Ramsey. That's letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey, might not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Diana in Georgia. She says, my husband and I make $230,000 a year and we have 237,000 in debt, not including our house. Our current house is valued at 600,000 and we owe about 450 on our mortgage, okay?

Our problem is we have outgrown this house and I'm ready to move now. Our living spaces are filled with toys so we desperately need a playroom or you could just get some organization. My husband and I would like to have an adult space after the kids go to bed, master bedroom. And we don't have that either. I found a home that I love, which is listed for 7.50.

I ran the numbers and it would double our mortgage payment to 5,000 a month. This is over 25% of our take home pay, which I know is not what you teach, but it could make a huge difference in our day-to-day life by stressing you with debt. What do you think, Jade? Well, you heard my commentary within the read, and so I think that you are on that stuff, and this is a bad, bad, bad, bad choice. I think you're probably really emotional, truly.

I think that you've got a lot of kids going around. I think that you're stressed and I get that, but I think that- This house is not gonna solve your problems while you're broke. The house is gonna make it worse. You got 240 grand consumer debt. You got barely any equity comparatively to what you're about to jump into.

And then you're about to stress yourself over 25% of your take-home pay. This is not, you need to get, invest in some nice storage for these toys. You need to make your master bedroom your take-home pay. This is not, you need to get, invest in some nice storage for these toys. You need to make your master bedroom a no-kids zone. Y'all are not allowed to come in here when the door is closed or when it's open.

And I think if you set some boundaries and get your space under control, your mind will get under control. We need to downsize and declutter our money and our house, not upsize. That's the short answer here. This is the Ramsey Show. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress

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From Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey Personality, George Campbell, joined by best-selling author Jade Warshaw, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Call us up and we will do our best to help you with whatever life has thrown at you, good, bad, ugly. We wanna know about it to help you take the right next step. Bri's gonna kick us off here in Sacramento, California. Bri, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, thanks so much. I'm so excited.

You guys are the perfect duo for my questions. Wow, I'll let Ken Coleman know. Thank you so much for that. It means a lot. What's going on? Okay so I will exercise brevity here. I have extremely generous and thoughtful in-laws. They do very well though they are not you know Ramsey principal people and with that being said a couple years ago they opened whole life policies for all four of their children that they pay for and technically own. But when they gifted it at Christmas, they said, you know, we opened these policies,

but they're yours. If you want to cash it out, if you want to add to it, if you want to just let it fit, that's totally up to you. Flash forward three years later, now that we're married, because they gifted the policy when we were dating. I would like to cash out the policy because my husband and I both have term insurance so we're covered there on our own. I would like to cash it out and put it in a high yield which the interest would probably cover what they're contributing every month anyway which is $65. But my husband doesn't want to be ungrateful

or have a difficult conversation. And I don't know if my mindset should be like, you know what, technically brass tacks, they own the policy, it's their money. Should it be out of sight, out of mind? Or should I push for this because it's what we follow in our marriage? I mean, they said you could cash it out, right?

They did. Who are the policies for right now? You said there's four of them? They have four children, and they opened whole life policies on all four children. But they own, the parents still own all the policies, and they're listed as the beneficiaries, not the wives. Oh, that's interesting.

So the policy's on him. Correct. So we're talking about one policy, and how much do they pay per month for this policy is on him. Like it's his. So we're talking about one policy and how much do they pay per month for this policy? $65. And what's the cash value? After the surrender charge, it would be about 11,400 at this point.

Okay. And you're saying, hey, we put that in a high yield, we're gonna make the 65 back and we don't need this policy. What if- And it would be something if it wasn't a high yield that I would contribute to where I'm not gonna throw money into a whole life policy.

Into a terrible product with a terrible return. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, what is their intent at this point paying for a grown man's whole life policy? Well, I think I was trying to rack my brain about that too. And the only thing that crossed my mind is are they trying to just set this up as a savings plan

so all of their kids have money to pay inheritance tax when they go? You know, like, so if there are expenses based on their inheritance, they already know that they've helped put aside money to cover that. How wealthy are these people? Because inheritance tax not gonna kick in unless we're talking like $20 million.

Yeah, they're very wealthy. Okay. I don't know if I'd touch this. I don't know that 65 bucks a month is gonna also pay for any meaningful taxes, if we're gonna be honest. Right, right, right. There's part of me just listening to you talk,

I don't know if I'd touch this because this was in, kind of, it was in place A before you guys were married. It's their money that they're spending that and the fact that you are not the beneficiary kind of lets me know that this is just something that they're doing. It doesn't really make sense to me, but who cares? It's not, I would tend to not try to control this. It's almost like, like my mother-in-law has a 529 set up for the kids. And that was something she did. I'm happy she did it.

And she put some in it and we put some in it too. I could try to be like, oh no, I wanna do this state's 529 and I wanna change it. But I'm like, this is something nice she's doing. And she did it for the state of Florida cause that's the state you're in and that's fine. I'm just grateful for it. And it's still some money that I wouldn't have had before. So I'm like, okay, great. And I'm just grateful for it and it's still some money that I

wouldn't have had before so I'm like okay great and I'm not gonna touch it because if I think that it's gonna stir up a hornets nest which in this case for me it probably wouldn't but if you sense that at all or it seriously it sounds like your husband maybe does I'd be like okay great thank you for the thank you and just probably move on. So most more so the first like out of sight out of mind, like pretend it's not even a thing. I mean, that's me. I don't know, George, would you be different?

It's not hurting you right now. Obviously there's you feel like there's a better use of this money. And your husband is going, hey, they're just doing a generous thing. We're not having to pay for this. They're not taking debt out in our name. This is just one way they want to give to the kids.

They are free to do that. And so I don't think this is on fire. If you never see this money, you're going to be okay. So whether they put it here, I mean, you could talk to your husband and say, hey, what if they put that 65 in a investment account that one day we then get to use as an inheritance to pay the taxes, whatever.

Are there better ways to go about this from a wealth strategy perspective? Yes. Yes. It's hard to tell people how to give to you. Especially with this relationship where it's like it's in your husband's name and it's a thing his parents did and now you're trying to get in the middle of it.

I feel like there's more harm than good. Well, I think the only reason it crossed my mind is because of in the way it was given. You guys can do what you want with this You know, so I was like, yeah We want to do what we want. Are they the type of people to get upset if you did cash it out? I don't think so. I think that they may not agree, but I don't think that they're gonna be upset Listen, I would not want to be the one it'd be different if you're listen There's a lady in the audience right now. She's going don't do it.. Don't do it. Don't mess with the in-laws over 65 bucks a month

that you're not paying. It would be one thing if your husband was like, dude, I was just looking at this whole life policy or my parents have on me. Like, this is whack. I'm gonna go tell them, you know, da da da da. And then you could be like, yes, honey, you go do that. But the fact that even he is like,

mm, I don't wanna come across ungrateful. That for me tells an underlying dynamic that even maybe you don't fully know is there. Which is, yeah, don't touch it. I get it though. Yeah, and Thanksgiving dinner's coming up. We don't want that to be a secret. Yes ma'am.

Oh my gosh, yeah, it's like, don't mess with the whole life policy. Don't mess with the macro-19s. But I am proud of you guys for getting term life in place and having a much better policy in place there. I think that was the move to do. And if you were in a different situation, I'd say, hey, get term life and then go ahead and policy in place there. I think that was the move to do. And if you were in a different situation, I'd say, hey, get term life

and then go ahead and cancel the whole life. Pay this on your charge and cash it out. All right, well, I'll stop stressing about this. Yeah, I think it's not worth your peace of mind over 65 bucks a month that you're not paying. As long as they have the right insurance in place for them, this is just something that someone did. Especially their level of wealth.

Their in-laws are clearly aren't broke. They're not spending money they don't have to fund this thing. Sure, sure. It's like my in-laws buying me a biscuit, even though I'm gluten free. And I go, hey, thanks for the biscuit. I actually don't eat gluten.

And they go, no, we wanna buy you a biscuit. And then when you're not looking, they're not looking, you kind of put it, you give it to the dog. Feed it to the dogs. My little French bulldog is very overweight. She doesn't need that. Oh yeah, that trying to slumber down, sorry.

That's a good message though, for all of you out there who don't have term life in place, let this be your wake up call. You need it 10 to 12 times your annual income on the policy and you can get a 15 year term, 20 year term, 25 year term. Here's why you don't need insurance for your whole life. Once you follow the Ramsey plan for 15 or 20 years,

you're going to be what's called self-insured. You have a paid for home, you have sizable nest egg that will cover your family in case something happened to you to replace your income. Not to mention you don't need an insurance policy that's going to quote invest for you. You can do your own investing. Yes, combining investing and insurance

is a terrible, terrible idea with terrible returns. And all it does is line the pockets of these whole life insurance salesmen. That they pose as wealth strategists. Cause they go, well this is actually an investment strategy, the wealth they use. Don't buy it. So if you want to get term life in place,

the only one we've ever recommended to Ramsey, go to zander.com. Our friends there would take care of you. They've taken care of my family for years. Yeah, he's family You can also go call 800-356-4282 to get that plan in place and man the peace of mind is worth it the policy is a Fraction of the cost of whole life and you'll sleep better for it. This is the Ramsey show Are you working the baby steps? One of the smartest and most impactful changes you can make is to ditch your cash value life

insurance plan, if you have one, and replace it with a term life policy. Listen, the only thing a cash value policy is good for is overcharging you for the life insurance and then paying you a crappy rate of return on your overpayment. Stop wasting your money and really focus on getting out of debt and growing your savings. For over 25 years I've trusted and used Zander Insurance to find the best rates on term life insurance from the top rated companies. They keep the whole thing simple. You can apply online or over the phone and they even have low-cost plans that don't require an exam. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282 even if you don't have a cash

value policy. If you're one of the 70% of people who have no life insurance or not enough, it's even more important to get this done. 800-356-4282 or Zander.com. Hey good folks, Dr. John Delaney here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring.

If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we wanna see your application. Right now we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramsysolutions.com slash careers. That's ramsysolutions.com slash careers. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Jade Warshaw. It's a free call at triple 8 8 2 5 5 2 2 5. And some say the advice is worth what you paid for it.

And if you ever wonder what George and I talk about in between segments, this last time we talked about a t-shirt idea with George's face on it. We have some visitors out here in the lobby and she said, I was hoping I would find a t-shirt with your face on it. And I went, you are the only person who would ever buy that. So it would not be worth making. You'd be better off getting the Walmart like iron on than just doing it yourself.

Yikes. You gotta put the two Frenchies on either side and then it's. And then it's still not valuable to anyone, but hey, whatever floats your boat, I'm honored. Charlotte is in Nashville, Tennessee, up next just down the road. What's going on, Charlotte?

Hi. How can we help? Thanks for having me. I have a quick couple quick questions for you. I had the medical debt from being in the hospital at a hospital that was out of state a couple states away. It turns out I was out of town for something and got sick and had to go to the hospital. They kept me in ICU for two weeks but became an astronomical bill. Oh my goodness. And making off, yeah, I had a very strange rare type of pneumonia and sepsis. So- Are you okay now?

I am. Okay. On the top of the fact that I'm still fighting with cancer, yes. Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry. I have a wonderful God who looks out for me. But my question, my concern is this. Okay, so this bill obviously was very large.

They did work with us some to take it down, but it's still a $30,000 bill. I hadn't worked since my cancer diagnosis. I've not been able to work. So we have only my husband's income. It's not a large amount of money, but we make it. Um, thank God we don't have a lot of debt other than our house. Okay. This is the problem they want. This is a non-for-profit hospital, but they want their full 30,000. I said, I can make payment arrangements.

My payment arrangement was not acceptable to them. They wanted 800 a month. I said, I can't do that. Um, so to make a long story short, I went ahead and paid, um, the money on the account through their automated system. The following month I called them back to see, can we do some type of payment arrangement that's affordable for us that I can commit to and do they still, then they dropped it down to 600. I'm like, I still can't do 600. I'm thinking maybe 300 of us. They weren't willing to do that.

They said that wasn't enough for them to mess with. And so that was probably going to go to collections. I went ahead and paid some money to the automated system again. And then a few days ago I contacted them saying, Hey, you know, we got to do something here. Can I, basically my husband and I discussed this and we're willing to pay them 10,000 of the 30 if they'll consider the bill paid in full. The sad point is we have to take this out of his retirement because there's no

other way we can do this. They had in the meantime, sent this to a collection agency. And I said, I don't want to deal with the collection agency. I didn't run my debt with them. I ran it with you people. I'm willing to pay you. I just can't pay you the 600 a month you want. Well, the good news is there is some good news here. If it's with collections,

you have a better chance of settling it. Cause they bought this for pennies on the dollar from the hospital. The hospital is already free and clear from this. They've already written it off. The hospital said, we'll take some money over not getting paid. So we'll sell it to collections.

Okay, so I spoke with the hospital a couple of days ago to offer them, can we do 10,000 and consider this paid in full and the collection agencies out of the picture. And so they're sending it back to their review board to decide if they'll accept this. In the meantime I'm getting text messages and letters from this collection agency so I'm at a point where I don't know what to do. I'm willing to pay this hospital ten thousand and call it a deal. Yeah. I would think my ten thousand is probably more than the collection agency gave them. It might be. It might be. Here's the thing if this just happened there might still be some confusion

over who's holding the debt. That's very possible. But if it's in collections, collections owns the debt. Now, I will say when you're settling something, you could talk to a lot of bozos before you talk to the person who's gonna actually help you with this. So this is kind of, as much as I hate to say this,

this is gonna be your full-time job for the next couple of weeks until this gets settled. And they might not take 10, they might say it's gotta be half or whatever, whatever deal that you can strike, and you're gonna have to beat them over the head with this and say, this is the only thing I have, this is my financial situation,

this is my health situation, if you wanna dime from me, this is all you're getting. And I could care less. You can call me a million times. You can email my phone. Do not rob your retirement for this. No. Please, don't take a dime out of retirement.

Don't take a dime out of retirement for this. We have no way out to pay them. That's okay. Listen, that's part of it. That's okay. We're not gonna rob our future over this. Then they're gonna go and try to garnish my husband. They can't come after your retirement accounts.

No, no, no, no. I'm saying he's still working. He's not retired yet. This is in his investment fund for his retirement later. And I'm not here when he retired. But what I'm saying is if we don't give them some money, then they're going to take this to court to get a garnishment of his wage. And we can't afford with my health and things going on, we can't afford for his income to be any less than it is.

So if they get a garnishment, we're really screwed. So this is why we thought offering them 10 grand is the best we can do, because we're not gonna take all of his retirement. But if you have that in writing, that, hey, we offer them 10 grand to settle and they wouldn't take it and they wanna continue on and sue and go through all the paperwork and legality and

spending all the money with lawyers. I mean, I would cross that bridge when and if we get there. And the chances of getting there is so slim on something like this. This happens every day, literally every day. And the purpose of them selling it off to the credit, the debt collection agency is because they've gone, okay, we're just writing, we're charging this off, we're writing this off, we've washed our hands of it, and they've already accepted a smaller amount.

So the debt collection company, if they can clear a little bit more than they were already paid for it, then great. So here's what I want you to do, Charlotte. Here's your homework. Document every single time you reach out. Record the call, screenshot the emails, and I want you to call them more than they call you.

I want them to be tired of you calling. Oh my gosh, Charlotte again? Screen her calls. She keeps calling trying to settle the debt. I want you to be the squeaky wheel to get the grease. And by that, I mean, this thing is paid in full. So don't give them access to your checking account and make sure that you have in writing

every time you contact them and get everything in writing from them. When they say, hey, we're willing to settle for paid in full on this debt, make sure you get that in writing because these people are, they can be smart. And I asked for that, and this is the gentleman on the,

who's the coordinator for their financial hardship, that's whatever I'm speaking with, I told him I would want this in writing before we give you a guy. Well, we don't normally put that in writing, but I can give you something from my email. No. It takes you five minutes to give me a letter. I bet your bill is in writing, isn't it?

That $30,000 euro. It sure is. Did you get an itemized bill from them? I did. Did you look through it and bill from them? I did. Did you look through it and go, yep, that's right, that's right, that's right? Oh yeah, it was 14 days in ICU. There wasn't anything they didn't cover in there. And you've tried to appeal with your insurance? Is there any coverage through your insurance that would help pay this? We don't have insurance. My husband lost our insurance when the whole COVID thing happened. And now, our insurance that they went through his job he has now is $1,400 a month.

We can't do that. I'm not working. We can't do it. So we're having to pay all this. How are you covering your cancer treatments? Everything we've done so far, he has had to pull from his retirement. Oh my God. Charlotte, there's not going to be anything in that retirement account when you guys get there. Everything we've done so far, he has had to pull from his retirement. Oh my goodness.

Charlotte, there's not going to be anything in that retirement account when you guys get there. We've solved it. And now we're at a point, we know this, it's like, what do we do now? I don't have anything more left. I'm not even doing any treatments right now. We can't do anything because we don't have any more money to give anybody without having anything to live on.

So this is, I mean, I'm at a point now where I don't even know what to do with this hospital. Have you not looked into the marketplace health insurance? I mean, with your income in Tennessee, through ACA, you should be able to get a very affordable plan, if not free. We did look into that, and what they explained to us was it was gonna be like 300 and something a month

for the basic coverage. What she told us was it was gonna be like 300 and something a month for the basic coverage. What she told us was for what I need, like for my cancer treatments and my heart issues and my COPD and everything I deal with, that it wouldn't cover any of that. So we're like, what is that gonna do with any good then? I can pay $100 to walk in my doctor's office and my staff. Well, we need to find out all of the programs available to us and take advantage of them. Jump on to ramsysolutions.com, click on Trusted Services, and Health Trust Financial can help you navigate what the best option is for you. I'm so sorry you're going through this. I hope this

medical debt is behind you. I hope they throw it out and go, she's got cancer, she's broke. Guys, let's just call it a day and get rid of this debt and stop going after her. This is scum behavior. This is the Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession.

Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball that's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite, there's

only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey folks changing your family tree takes more than rice and beans and side hustles It's also about transferring the big financial risks off your family by having the right kinds of coverage in place.

That's why my team created the Coverage Checkup Quiz. It only takes about 5 minutes to find out what types of insurance you need and don't need to protect your finances. Make this quiz one of your regular checkups starting right now at ramsysolutions.com slash checkup. That's ramsysolutions.com slash checkup. That's ramsysolutions.com slash checkup. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Jade Warshaw.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. We just launched a brand new tour. This is a live event with Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Delaney. They're hitting the road coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. And there's a new twist on this. You shape the conversation each night This is a live event with Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Delaney. They're hitting the road, coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. And there's a new twist on this. You shape the conversation each night

to choose your own adventure. You select the topics that matter most to you, whether it's budgeting, relationship dynamics, achieving your financial goals, your voice drives the night. So Louisville, they're coming to you April 21st of 2025. Durham, April 23rd. Atlanta, April 25th. Phoenix, May 5th. Fort Worth, Texas on May 7th,

and finally Kansas City on May 9th. So join Dave and Dr. John live and in person, you're gonna laugh, you're gonna learn, you might even just change your life. So get your tickets for this tour at ramsysolutions.com slash tour, T-O-U-R. And if you're tuning in on YouTube or podcast, there's a link in the show notes. There you go, that'll be a good time. Sad, I want, I kind of want to go travel

to see one of these events. You know? Sad, we won't see it here in our hometown. Oh, that's true. I'll have to get tickets. Not a bad idea. A little road trip. All right. Josh is in Seattle, Washington. What's going on, Josh? Hello. Good afternoon, George and Jake. Can you hear me? Okay? Yeah Longtime listener first time caller. So a little nervous, but we got you my main question here is How do I know if i'm on the right career path and if i'm not on the right career path How do I find something? That I know I can do long term and

For context i'm 24. I'm active duty military, I work in the medical field. I work full time and I also go to school full time on the side, it's online and I have had the ultimate goal of applying to either med school or TA school but right now going to school part-time, my grades aren't doing so hot. So I am starting to just have some doubts and wondering if I'm in the right path right now. Why are your grades down? Is it you're too scattered or you're not capable

of handling the material? What is it? No, I definitely don't think of that. I think it's um, The full-time job and I've had a few life things come at me some sickness in the family and some death recent death the family and it's just been consecutive consecutive events like that come and the greats aren't doing so well now, so

I'm not too sure if I should stick with it or I don't, and I'm not sure either if this is my ultimate dream. So I'm just having some doubts and just looking for some advisor guiding. Well, I wouldn't let the, I mean, you've had some life, some tough life stuff happen to you and that would be distracting, I think for anybody.

So I wouldn't want that to be the thing that takes me off course. This is a, if that's the case, it's a season and you'll come out of it and you'll be able to refocus in a later season. But as to whether or not this is ultimately what you wanna do, I mean, a lot of times I kind of like to just take a moment and clear my head

and just think, okay, in 10 years from now, where do I see myself? What do I see myself doing? How do I feel? What's going on around me? Are there children around? Is there a different scenery around? And really get an idea of where do you see yourself? And if you look up and say, okay, 10 years from now, do I see myself working in a hospital environment? Do I see myself in a private practice? Do I not want to be in the medical field at all?

And so if you did that just for the moment, what do you see? Um, I'd say for the moment, I, I'm really pretty much in limbo. I've always had the notion. I didn't, we didn't go up rich and I always had that notion of just finding a career with some stability, with good pay, good job security. And I never really thought past that. And I had a lot of my family members in the medical field and the medical field has given me that stability, but I am kind of in limbo right now and still don't know. We never got deeper than just,

I want a stable job with good benefits. Like that's no way to live or filter this by. Exactly right. Your parents needed that because it was a different time. Right, the generations that came before us, it was survival. And now we're in a position where we can thrive. Even in the world today where everyone's going,

you can't do whatever, you can. And we have some great resources from our friend Ken Coleman that we're gonna send you, namely his new book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It comes with a get clear career assessment. And here's what you're looking for. Here's, I'm gonna give you the spark notes. You're looking for your top talents.

This is what you do best. Clearly, you're good at what you do, otherwise you wouldn't be doing this, right? Military, medical, we kind of know the things we're good at, the skills. Then there's your top passions. This is what you enjoy doing. So that's not what you're good at,

this is the stuff you love to do, how you perform your passion. And then there's mission, the results you wanna produce, the impact you wanna have. And so once you can dial all those in, you get kind of this purpose statement when you take the Get Clear Career Assessment

that will then help you go, yep, I'm going to med school, I want to be a nurse practitioner, I want to be a MD, whatever that is, it'll get you a lot closer to figuring that out. And then it becomes, okay, how are we gonna do this debt-free?

How far into this are you? Have you started, are you pre-med? Where are you in your schooling right now? Yeah, I am a senior. I'm going to school for laboratory science and I'm a senior right now. Again, it's all online. And like I've been doing a lot of my prereqs and the prereqs to get into those just I just had not

been having good grades from I had a recent family death and now I ended up with a C in this prerequisite and with the prerequisites it I'm starting to worry that I might not have like a good enough prerequisite grade to get into, to get into like a grad school. But yes, I am my senior year. I'm pretty close to finishing. Were you doing good before the life stuff happened? Like, were your grades good before that?

I'd say I've only been going to school consistently for the last two years because the two years before that, the first two years of college, basically, I got all that, all the credits covered through the military. So I wouldn't say the last. I'm not gonna lie, there's a lot of doubt in your voice. You sound like you're not sold on your own dream and it should be the opposite.

You should be convincing me why this is it. It sounds like you're trying to talk yourself out of it and I can't give you that permission. I will not sleep well at night knowing I told Josh, this doesn't sound like it's it for you, bud. I think I'm trying to talk myself into it. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And it's like, it should feel the opposite.

It should feel like, yeah, like no one, how do I make it to where nothing stops me from doing this, right? And I don't hear that. So I think George is right. Getting connected with Ken's career assessment is gonna help you. Cause it sounds like there's probably something

in that skillset that you wanna do, but just not in that specific format. So that's gonna be the key here for you. And it may not be, I wanna be an MD. There's a lot of paths. I've got a lot of family members that are in the medical field, pretty much all of them. I'm the black sheep.

And so my brother's a nurse practitioner, my cousin just became a doctor. So there's a lot of paths you can take that have different levels of schooling and costs. Can you tell me if the military will continue to cover your schooling? So right now, that's another issue too. Like right now they only pay for half of my credits per year.

So I've been playing out of pocket for the rest of it. But once I'm out of the military, yes, they do cover school. Cause I have the GI Bill. So when are you out? So if you got into med school, it's a hundred percent covered? I'm out next year. Okay. Yes sir, that cover school. Because I have the GI Bill. When are you out? So if you got into med school, it's 100% covered? I'm out next year. Okay.

Yes sir, that's right. Wow. Wow. That's a blessing. As long as it's a public university. Sure. Okay. This is interesting.

This has got layers to it. Yeah. I would definitely, I would keep running this down. It sounds like the fact that you're stirring about this tells me that there's something here. And again, like Jade said, I wouldn't let this phase the fact that you're stirring about this tells me that there's something here. And again, like Jade said, I wouldn't let this phase of life that you're in sway you because you got a C on a prereq.

Okay. You don't need, you're not trying to go to, you know, Harvard for your, for med school here. And so I don't look at the frame on my doctor's office. I just go, well, if he was good enough to get hired at this hospital, I guess he's good enough for me. And maybe try to, you office, I just go, well, if he was good enough to get hired at this hospital, I guess he's good enough for me. And maybe try to, you know, what you're talking about,

whether it's being a PA or a medical doctor, or maybe you're a lab technician, if you're going in for lab science, I don't know, but maybe try to spend some time in those environments for real and see what it makes you feel. Like what is it igniting you? Talk to them about the good, the bad, the ugly in every single one of these career paths.

Cause you know, a lot of people, they get into it and they leave the field cause it wasn't what they thought it would be or they got burnt out because they weren't prepared for what was ahead. And so I think having a full picture and doing your homework is going to give you the clarity you need.

And Ken's book will get you started on that path. I probably go in there George and really make a pros and cons list of each thing, because there is part of this that I wouldn't want fear to be the driver. I'm afraid I won't pass the prerequisites. I'm afraid I won't. I've always had some, I've had people tell me like it, it could be just the season of going to school and working full time. Like if I was going, if I was going to school full time, it would be better.

Yeah, you've got a lot going on. You're tired. I'm just kind of in limbo, yeah. Yeah, man. I am pretty tired. I'm starting to get burned out. I take a good nap and then read Ken's book. We're gonna send it to you.

So hang on the line and thank you so much for your service to our country. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here. You know, some people think budgeting means they can't have any fun with money. And I know this because that was me. But the truth is, budgeting doesn't limit your freedom.

It actually gives you freedom. A budget is simply telling your money where to go. And the best way to do this is with EveryDollar, my favorite budgeting app. It'll help you create a plan for your money that fits your lifestyle. So whether it's a spontaneous date night or an epic Disney cruise,

budget for some fun. Download every dollar for free today. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Jade Borsha. If you didn't know, we've got a Ramsey Network app that's free in the app store. And if you choose to download it, there's a place to ask your questions. And so from time to time we answer one of those questions. This one comes from Haley. She says, my boyfriend and I have been dating for almost five years. We have had a joint bank account and shared all expenses since we started living together at age 18.

Oof. Should I be concerned that he is not proposed? Yes. And if so, how should I move forward considering we financially share everything? That's funny. Oh yeah, yi. If I could turn back time. And if so, how should I move forward considering we financially share everything? Hmm. That's funny. Oh, yeah, yi. If I could turn back time.

Yes. Yes. You should be concerned. I feel like we just had this conversation last week. We did, because you made the cow reference. I did. I said, if you can get the milk for free, why buy the cow? Which is a very old lady saying, but still very true. The hard

part is he's not motivated to change course. He's playing house. He's already playing the game. And so, I mean, in his mind, he's probably like, what's to gain? Like we are already combining our money. We've been going along this this long. So it's going to be hard to make that kind of make that case. But here's the thing, if you say to him, we've been together five years, our finances are combined, let's get married. Like let's make this thing legal.

Let's protect both of ourselves. If we say that we're really committed, let's prove it. If he's like, no, I don't want to. To the left, to the left. It's time to go. Everything you own in a box to the left. If I'm in your shoes, I'm going to decouple everything financially. Yeah.

Until the day we are actually married. Cause number one, there's a piece of this that you already feel of this, like, this doesn't feel right. It feels weird that we're just like roommates sharing all of these expenses with the joint bank accounts. It's funny cause there's married couples that don't feel comfortable combining their financial life.

And then everyone playing house is like, let's just combine everything. It'll be better. I'm like, all y'all are doing it wrong. But even if she decouples it and he's like, I don't want to get married, then I'm like, what are we doing? What are we doing? I still would have very deep questions. Now don't get me wrong. I guess everybody doesn't want to get married, but I would still have deep questions as to why you don't want to solidify the covenant that we've kind of said for five years. Yeah, we wanna do this. Well, and aside from that, there's financial protections that you have when you're married.

And right now you're putting yourself at risk by combining everything with basically a buddy. I'm hoping they're renting and didn't buy a house together. Oh, yikes. You know, so. Wow, sorry, Hailey. Not the answer you wanted to hear, but it's the one you needed to hear.

That's right. All right. Let's get to the phones. Paul is in Syracuse, New York up next. What's going on, Paul? Hi, can you hear me? Yes. Oh man, super excited.

Thank you so much for answering my call. Absolutely. I'm actually a new fan starting this month. My cousin introduced me to the show. So I love you, Nancy and Mark. Absolutely. I'm actually a new fan starting this month. My cousin introduced me to the show. So I love you, Nancy and Mark. Oh, it's a shout out. We're honored to have you on board.

I love a good shout out. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So getting into it all, basically, I woke up about a month ago and now I'm ready to start kicking debt spot. So we have three hundred and fifteen thousand in debt and it's between two homes, a home equity loan, a 401k loan and more. About a hundred and ten of that doesn't include the

mortgages. We have a household income household income of 192,000 a year. Awesome. So, um, yeah, it's great. And you're probably thinking, well, how am I in that spot with debt? And what it came down to is a lack of accountability, gambling, and I just wasn't budgeting. So, um, as of three weeks ago, um, now I have a budgeting app. I use it every single day.

Um, and, and just from the two weeks of watching the show and listening, um, I was able to answer a lot of my questions, but I cut out unnecessary expenses. Um, I stopped contributing to my full on K I had 10% contribution. Now it's zero. I can get that extra money for my debt. Good. Um, liquidated the stocks and I have a CD that matures in December and I'm going to put that to debt.

Great. So I'm feeling good. I'm motivated. Can you tell us more about the houses? Just so we know what that means? Is one of them being rented? Yeah, of course. Yeah, yep.

So the first house, I have $90,000 on the mortgage valued at 250. Okay. It's being rented out and I'm making about $600 of profit on that and then I used the HELOC to buy the second house and I got a mortgage of 120 on that. And that's where we're currently living. And what's that one worth? And so that one's worth about 170. Okay, so you have $53,000 in equity there.

Yep, and so where my question lies is I'm using the debt snowball method and the home equity loan I have is got 63,000 with a variable rate of 5.5% and the payments are killer. It's like $356 for a payment and over 75% of my payments go straight to interest. Most recently I was like 60 bucks went to principal so it barely moves that and I have a 401k loan of 20,000 with a fixed rate of 8.5% comes right out of my paycheck and the interest gets paid back to myself.

Okay. And so my question is if I go after the 401k loan first, should I take another 401k loan out to just go after the home equity loan? No, you haven't learned your lesson. You do not borrow against your retirement and do not take out 401k loans because if something goes south and you were to lose your job, you're on the hook to pay this off within the last the next 12 months, or it gets worse and worse.

On top of unplugging all of the growth. And so the key here is, Paul, the principle is we never use debt to pay off other debt. And so the key is to change our habits, use our future income, use our savings. That's exactly what you're doing. So you're on the right path. The only caveat is no more debt, no more borrowing money.

If you just say that's off the table, what am I gonna do instead? Well, you're gonna attack that HELOC with a vengeance because you're angry at this thing. You're angry seeing it all go to interest. You're angry at the interest rate. You're angry at your own choices. And that's what actually causes people to get out of debt

is that fire. It's not finding another loophole, another shortcut to use one debt to pay off the other, playing a shell game. So just to clarify, the first property that you said you had, that you owed 90,000 on, that was the one you took out the HELOC on, correct? Yes.

Okay, so you said it's worth 250. So if you were to sell it, that HELOC would go with the property, right? And you'd still net, what do you think you'd net at the end of it? If I was to sell that property, So you owe 90 plus the 63 plus fees, probably talking 80, maybe 75. Yeah. After closing costs and everything. Which is not bad. There's part of me that I would simplify this very quickly

and the $600 a month, fine, whatever. You could make that with a side hustle. Exactly. It's not worth what you're experiencing right now. And so if I were you, I'd sell that, I'd get rid of the house, I'd get rid of the HELOC right along with it, and I'd have $75,000 to say,

okay, what do I wanna do here? Do I want to... What's your next smallest debt? Is it the 401k loan? I'm thinking yes. The next smallest debt is, my credit card is three grand, my truck payment is 11.

Okay, so you'd knock both of those out with the extra 75 plus the 401k loan. So how far would that get you? What would be left if you did all of this? Plus all the stuff you said you're already doing. It should get you everything cleared, but 35,000 of debt based off of what I feel like the numbers you gave me were.

Because you said you got the CD, you're liquidating the stocks, you've paused the 401k. Let's say you sell the house, use the 75 to pay off debt, would that knock it all out? It would be pretty, yeah. It'd be pretty close. You had one 10, you take 75 out because of the home sale that leaves you with 35, and then you've got

whatever savings you have laying around that you clear down to 1,000 to knock out the rest. Paul, you're about to leapfrog into debt freedom and release so much stress that's been building up. And you've got a, you're on some thin ice here with all this rental thing going on, all these loans you've been taking out. I think we're done paying interest

and we're about to start earning it, my friend. And we'll get back into real estate investing later on. But right now we're building a foundation. Yeah, good, good. Hey, for all of you listening on the show, to the show on. But right now we're building a foundation. I'm proud of you, man. Hey, for all of you listening to the show on YouTube or podcast, it's about to end. So go join us on the Ramsey Network app to finish the show completely free.

Go to your app store, download the Ramsey Network app, and we'll see you over there. You don't wanna miss what's coming up next. You can also click the link in the show notes to go watch the rest of the show in the app for free as well. Thanks for listening. Hey! You're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network

app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada-bing, bada-boom. Alright, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.