The Ramsey Show - If You're Intentional With Money, You Can Win With Money

Episode Date: March 6, 2025

📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss: "How do I handle my finances after a separation?" "Should we fight late payment reports?" "How can I live on my own after a breakup?" "Stop investing in order to tithe more?". Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY ⛨ Find top Health Insurance Plans at Health Trust Financial 💸 To find out more about student loan refinancing, check out Laurel Road 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at The Nokbox 💵 Learn more about Timothy Plan 🏛 Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📱 Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🤓💸💰 File your taxes with 100% accurate software that’s 20% of the price. 📖 Preorder Build a business You Love today. 🎟️ See Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Delony LIVE in a city near you Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Me and Dr. John Delaney are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. It's happening soon, so don't wait. Get your tickets at ramsysolutions.com slash tour. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey your host Ken Coleman Ramsey personality number one best-selling author and host of the new hit on Ramsey Networks Front Row Seat where he is interviewing big names and going really deep in these interviews. It's a wonderful show be sure to check it out. JD is gonna start this hour in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, JD, what's up?

Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call. Sure. It's an honor to speak to you. You too. I have a question. Try to get through this. About five weeks ago, my wife out of nowhere said she wanted to separate.

Came out of nowhere. Our marriage definitely had its ups and downs. We've always worked through it as some other things I found out, but, um, we're living apart right now and about two weeks into this, she split up the finances completely without even telling me. Um, so my question is, how do I best navigate this through the separation? Since we do, we are still legally and biblically married? How do we navigate handling finances right now?

Tom Bilyeu You separate them as if you're divorced. And then if there is an answer to prayer and reconciliation and you get back together, you recombine them. Okay. You have direct deposit on your payroll. Yes. And so does she go open, go open a new checking account and have your, have your check to send to your checking account. But the thing that I don't, that I'm wary of is that she can see what I'm doing, but I can't see what she's doing. Not if you do that.

Yeah. She has access to my account. Not anymore. You're going to go close that and open a new account. Cause it's a, cause it's a joint. It's a, it was a joint account. I'm just like, but she basically wants to continue paying down our debts. Well, that's her problem. She's the one causing all this. So you asked me what you should do. What you should do is separate as if you are getting divorced. You should go open a new checking account, have direct deposit sent over there, and then you pay what bills you're agreeing to pay during this separation while you negotiate the terms of the divorce who

gets what bills. If all of that gets sidetracked and you end up in reconciling then you just go back to a joint account and you reconcile. That's what I'm hoping and praying for. We're both in counseling. We're seeing the same counselor but separate. There was an affair on not my part. But I'm still willing to work through this. But I think the issue is our income is a lot different because I have a lot of

chronic health issues so I don't make as much. So the amount of debt that I have I can't cover by myself. So that's why she was okay with like, hey, if you need money we can like work as a team to get everything paid off. Well, I mean, you can send her a list of the bills that she needs to help you pay, but that doesn't mean you have to have combined checking accounts. Okay. Okay, because here, John Delaney taught me a saying, and he taught me by sitting at my

right like Ken Coleman is right now. He says that behavior is right now. He says that behavior is a language. I heard two very disturbing behaviors for the future of your marriage in this conversation so far. Not verbiage, but actual behaviors. Behavior number one, she's sleeping with someone else. Behavior number two, she separated the money without even telling you.

None of these, these two behaviors say you're getting divorced. Well, I do have to say the affair was emotional and it's kind of on the back burner and he's going back to his wife. So I think that's burning out. Yeah, and she separated the money, so I don't believe that.

Okay. Yet. I hope that's all right and I hope you guys get back together and I hope you're able to work your way through this, that you're part of it but in the meantime you said what would I do with my money I would separate it completely I would just completely separate it and then if there are some common things we need to work on you'll write your check towards that she can write her check towards that but we things we need to work on, you'll write your check towards that, she can write her check towards that. But we don't need to have everything in one pile anymore,

because she's doing a lot of sudden, emotional things that are not pointing towards reconciliation. Yeah, because I think what I like is that since I'm self-employed, one part of our, we have like one big account that we have like checking, saving, saving, saving for like my taxes, medical, housing, and she divided all of that up so I don't even have everything that I need to pay the tax bill that I have coming up. Okay, well, she, you know, she don't have that right. She can't take money out of that account, um, that has your name on it.

In this situation, the divorce court will undo that, and the judge would hand the money back to you. So... So, do you, what'd it be, do you think I should, uh, sit down and just say, hey, what exactly is... Yeah, yeah, I think you try to get some clarity. What exactly do you have, what, okay. Well, you you know and where's my dad got money by the way hello that'd be something I'd want to know yeah the money that was for my taxes it

just disappeared a minute ago and we had set that aside for taxes it needs to be there and it needs to go to taxes so I need that put back like now and and no you can't buy your boyfriend a car and there's about 20,000 set aside for we're saving up for a home 10,000 of that came from her boss So I don't know what you care where it came from It's common property now Okay, and you're you have as much right to it as she does Okay, okay, so um you know we have a $20,000 savings account. You can't just make off with that money. You don't have that option legally.

Cause since we don't have kids, um, she was kind of wanting to push towards just doing a disillusion if that gets to that. Not the way this is working so far. Okay. Cause she's much better at negotiating so far than you are. Cause I, oh, you're right. And because I did speak to a divorce attorney in my family, advised me to do that. Yes. Check my rights.

And it sounds like, um, going that route would be more expensive for her because she makes so much more money than me and she's got a 401k. Um, it's not more expensive for her. It means that you get what the law says you get in the event of a divorce. The other route, you get what she says she's going to give you because you're going along with everything.

So now you need some help in your corner, Dave. Yeah, JD, I'm just listening to this entire exchange with Dave. I think you've got to separate hoping and praying for this marriage from protecting yourself. Protecting yourself doesn't mean that you can't hope and pray. So it's like, do the counseling, hope, pray, do everything you can, that it does work out, but at the same time, you must protect yourself and stand up for yourself in the midst of this. She's just rolling all over you. And it feels like in some cases I heard you almost making excuses for, and I think you got to stop that. Hoping for the best, but also have some sense and protect

yourself. So there's got to be a mental approach to this alongside the emotional. And boy, my heart breaks for you, JD. I mean, I feel for you. I can't imagine. But you need a mental strategy while you're dealing with this emotional mess. And that's what Dave's telling you. So my friend that does divorce counseling says that divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction. And so far in this conversation, you suck at this business. So you need to separate this, protect, and then come from a position of strength with an attorney in your corner of how we're going to reconcile or how we're going to split

Equitably under the law not under what she wishes She's got this fantasy in her head that is not reality and she's getting ready to find that out. This is the Ramsey show As an investor in a person of faith when your mutual funds and ETFs put your money into the dark side, you might feel a disturbance. Well good news, Timothy Plan offers investments for people who want to be intentional about where their money goes. As the pioneering force in biblically responsible investing, Timothy Plan entered the investment space to offer clean alternatives to secular funds that invest in stuff you'd never willingly expose your family to. And for more than 30 years, Timothy Plan

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Mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners LTD and ETFs distributed by Four Side Fund Services LLC. It's tough. As a matter of fact, when you become self-employed, you will discover you have a jerk for a boss. That person will work you into the dirt. I mean, they will work you like a rented mule. It's crazy. Some of you don't even know what that means. But anyway. I know.

So here's the thing. It's also a lot of fun. I've been running this business for almost 40 years now from a card table in my living room. And it's just a straight up, it's a dad gum adventure every day. There's always something wild and wacky that you don't see coming. It's a blast and you need a path, a clear path to get through and to grow the business. We have developed that from our experiences at Ramsey and also coaching about 10,000 small businesses for the last decade or so through Entrez leadership. And the path is this, there's five proven stages of

business, particularly small business, and there's six drivers that drive you through those five stages. In other words, if you understand that framework, you've got the baby steps for a small business and I just did it in a book the books coming out April 15th it's on sale right now it's called build a business you love build a business you love and we're going to take you through this Entrez leadership framework and show you it's not going to make your business instantly easy it's not an easy button it's not a panacea but but it is a um...

it is a clear thing and it will it will at least tell you where you're going it's good to have a map even if the road is bumpy right and so we're gonna show you how build a business you love if you pre-order it before april fifteenth which is like right now you would get uh... twenty nine ninety nine for the book and you get over three hundred fifty dollars worth of free bonus items including instant access to the Entrez leadership hiring and firing playbook which is probably the number one

sore spot in business hiring and firing process and also early access to the ebook itself and the audiobook on this book is pretty incredible. Yes I did voice it but we also did a bunch of enhancements to where it feels a little bit more like a podcast than an audiobook. And so you're really going to like that if you're an audiobook person. Pre-order at ramsysolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or on a podcast. Derrick's in Florence, South Carolina. Hey Derrick, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey Dave, thanks for having me. Sure, what's up? So what's up is my current situation. I'm set to be adhering to my dad's business over the next 12 months.

Right now I work with him in the same business so it's not like it's anything new as far as learning too much other than you know having a lot more payroll expenses. The main question is really, um, that's going to be a big change of income for me. Um, it'll be roughly tripling my income or so. I'll make about one to 50 right now and I'll be making 450 to 550 or so over the next year. Um, and there's going to be expenses in there,

but it'll still be a lot of extra income. So my question is really to, I don't know exactly what I should be doing with extra income. I'm obviously, you know, I might would have some more expenses with marketing or something, but I of course wouldn't be in a better financial position and not get too ahead of myself and you know, just thorough money wise. So trying to get some insight of what to do with that and trying to play my cards the best way I can.

get some insight of what to do with that and trying to play my cards the best way I can. Okay, you're inheriting the business. Did your dad pass? No, I'm sorry. He's retiring. So he's been in the, we have an insurance agency together. I've been working with him the past 10 years and he's looking at retiring sometime between the end of this year and beginning of next year within the next 12 months. So he'll be giving the business to me so I'll be inheriting his book of business, you know, the whole agency. So are you buying him out? I'm not. No, he is giving it to me. I've offered to give him something in the past actually but he doesn't want to take my money. So that's basically you're getting the book of business and how many employees have you got? We have, it'll be about four employees that we pay. So how's

he going to eat? How's he, he's obviously built a nice retirement nest egg, huh? He has and he's done some, he's done some development. He's done a few development projects over the past few years and so that's really his retirement egg right there and then plus whatever he's had from insurance over the years. Okay, all right cool. Yeah so he'll be fine without anything here. He's probably good. So basically this is the transition. He's tossing you the keys and you got this puppy. So your question is how to handle the increase in income responsibly? Right, correct. I've had a you know my history. I've always lived pretty comfortably but you know whenever I do get more money I tend to

Spend on things that are stupid and you know try to You know nothing more than I have I'm not I'm not in debt necessarily but not having a whole bunch of extra savings coming in I'm 33. Are you married? I am married one kid. Okay well here's the thing very few people do something stupid intentionally so if you're if left to a vacuum is where stupid sneaks in and so what I mean is is that you're you're being very wise right now the opposite of stupid in that you say okay I need a plan for this because if I don't have a plan I'm gonna have a problem. Right. And so what I would do is sit down with your wife and say write down what we're going to do with $450,000 this year.

What are we going to do with it? And, and then do that with it. Well, and the thing is, you know, talk about some of the stupid things, you know, it may be not stupid things is not the right word, but we bought a house in the past two years, um, that was certainly stretching our income. So, um, a big portion of what we make right now goes to paying the mortgage. Okay, same thing applies. Okay, I now have $450,000 for the coming 12 months.

Write down exactly in detail what I'm going to do with it. So you're telling me $150,000 is what you were making, the house payment's a strain, the house is a strain, so you may want to, okay, we're going to're going to raise our living budget to 200, which still leaves me $250,000. I need to decide what I'm going to do with. There's only three things you can do with money, by the way. Invest it, save it, enjoy it, and give it. And you probably ought to do all three. Yeah. With the extra 250. So what, out of of that 250 you two look at each other with the kid in bed and the TV off and the phones face down and you look at each other deeply

in the eyes and say, all right, how much of this 250 are we going to invest? How much are we going to spend on fun? And how much are we going to be outlandishly generous with? Yeah. And we've talked about it. One thing to the wife, she's always wanting to have a barn in our yard and we have a few acres so we can make that happen I guess, but trying to see how wide I should guess we want to have a barn and pasture and everything in the backyard. So that's the one thing we talked about wanting to have in the next five years potentially. Well then let's say, what's the barn going to cost? I got a five year plan. I need to set aside one fifth of that per year out of this money.

That's an example of what we're talking about. So you guys need to, you know, you're right now. This is all up in the clouds and it's bouncing around inside your head. It does not have any organization. I'm telling you to write it down like it's a dead gum business plan. Yeah. I want to add in here really quick. I'm listening to you, Derek. We know from research that whatever we focus on, in other words, we allow a thought to

stay in our head and we fixate on that thought, then what happens is our brain goes and takes pictures of it everywhere. So in other words, if somebody starts their day off feeling like a victim, then the rest of the day, their brain is going gonna go look for evidence of this thought. Now this is like basic neuroscience, all right? Now here's what's happening. All throughout the conversation with you, Dave, I heard Derek, I heard you say,

I heard shame, I did dumb in the past, I did stupid in the past, and Dave would tell you, do this, lay it out, set a budget, you know, be intentional and you kept coming back to, and I just want to encourage you. I think you're so ashamed and so embarrassed and I'm going to say a little bit of fear that you're going to do something dumb again. And it's because you're so focused on what you've done in the past instead of going,

all right, Dave told me what to do, have a written plan and we're going to decide, we're not going to let the wife and me get excited and talk about a lavish barn. No, we're going to say, we'd like to have a barn. Here's what good, better and best would look like. So I just want you to start focusing on that you aren't going to do something stupid in the future with money if you're intentional. I think that's got to be the new thought in your mind. I can be intentional with money, therefore I can win with money.

And I think that'll change his perspective. Intentionally give some of it, intentionally save some of it, intentionally enjoy some of it. Be in agreement in detail with your spouse exactly how much and then live what you write down. And you won't do stupid then. You'll be fine. That's right.

This is The Ramsey Show. Hey you guys. You'll be fine. That's right. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know which ones I mean. But I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fairwinds has been in business for over 75 years and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. You can feel secure because your deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to $250,000.

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that's fair wins www.farwinds.org slash Ramsey Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host thank you for joining us open phones phones at 888-825-5225. Kate is in Bozeman, Montana. Hi Kate, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi Dave, thanks for having me. Sure, what's up? I'd like your opinion on whether or not I should go back to Baby Step 2 and help my husband. I've been working in The Ramsey for just under a year. Um,

and so I'm a lot farther than him. I think I'm on six. So now that he's fully on board, I'm just wondering if I should go back and start helping him. Okay. Yeah, you've been doing it wrong. So yes, you should, you should, you should have been with him all along. Um, you're married, you're married. So definitely, definitely you should combine your goals, you should combine your dreams, you should plan to be married a long time and you should you know combine all income, combine all problems and combine all solutions. And that's the

fastest and the highest probability of a high-quality marriage that becomes wealthy. Okay. Couples that do what you guys have been doing have a very low statistical probability in the data that we have of actually becoming wealthy and generally it ends up in some kind of marriage problem. Okay. Because you're not dreaming together, you're not setting a future in your mind together. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah and I've been trying to get him on board. It's just he's a little stubborn so I can't force him. I couldn't you know

just stuff it down his throat. I just listen to like the Ramsey personality books really loudly and being obnoxious doesn't work either. No, no, no, I wasn't trying. You listen really loudly, I heard you. I love you, you're awesome. If we're in the car, if we're in the car on a long trip, I just put one of the books on. How long have you all been married? I'm not gonna, 25 years.

Yeah, okay. Wow. Are you both for separate accounts or just him? You separated your money. Is that something you both have been for this whole time or just him? Because that's another issue here. You mean separating the money?

Yeah, you guys have separate accounts. You said his consumer debts. Dave said you need to do it together. I'm curious, are you both on that same page that you've always had separate accounts and you were fine with it? Or is it him or you? Who's driving the separation of the accounts? Well, when we were first married,

all of our money was together and he was kind of like hands off. He's like, here's my paycheck, just do whatever with it. But then we ran into some problems and one of us had developed a major addiction problem. So the other one of us had to do it for safety purposes because I couldn't keep the bills paid without, you know, the money being in the account. So it was separated for a reason, but now that that's been resolved, I think

we're in a great place to get our finances back together. It's been so long now that it's kind of weird, you know what I mean? So I think we're moving forward. Yeah, that's understandable. That makes a lot of sense. It is awkward, I'll give you that. And that's fair. And the history you just laid out explains a lot, really.

So that part's fair. But again, where you guys paint a detailed picture of what our life looks like 20 years from now and then we combine forces to knock down blockers and achieve the goals to get to that life. And that creates not only an incredible relationship of trust and high levels of communication and respect, but it also actually increases the probability of that life that you pictured occurring. Because we find, we studied 10,167 millionaires, one of the things we found among them was

89% said my spouse and I work together. And that's the proof in the pudding right there. I mean, it's like nine out of 10 of them. So 10% found a way to get there without, with a reluctant spouse somehow, or with a spouse that was a hard head, or a spouse that didn't want to participate, or a spouse that wouldn't listen or whatever. But 89% got there by the two of us looking like two adults saying, hey, let's talk about where we wanna be,

let's get agreement on where we wanna be, and then let's get in attack mode to get there. Dave, you've done a lot of financial counseling crisis with couples, I'm gonna bring this up for your take, but it feels like hearing what Kate just said, that this might be the last piece of the healing. That she goes, okay, you've done your work, you've cleaned up, and now I'm gonna trust you, Kate just said that this might be the last piece of the healing. Yeah. That she goes, okay, you've done your work, you've cleaned up, and now I'm going to trust

you. And boy, that forgiveness in the form of trust feels like the last piece of healing and hopefully restoration for them. Well, and not only that, you know, he's more like my wife Sharon. Sharon said, whatever you want to do, honey. Right. And one of the things we had to come up with was we said, okay, we just can't use that phrase anymore. You can't say that anymore because I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do whatever I want to do. Right. I'm

gonna do whatever we want to do and so you're gonna have to speak up and I'm not going along with this. You're gonna dump it on me because then if it's not right you're gonna blame me and I'm not okay with that. When we agree together, I told you so leaves. And so I'm not taking the responsibility for this whole thing by myself. You're gonna be with me. And I get it that I'm the nerd, I get it, I'm probably gonna be the one executing

a lot of the details of this, and the one probably writes out the stupid spreadsheet. I'm that guy, I get all of that. But you're gonna have a voice in this, a vote in this, and I don't even care if you want to. You still have to. You still have to say what we're doing together. You have to say it out loud. You cannot say whatever you wanna do, honey.

It's kind of, when you're young and you're married, and your wife looks at you and says, whatever you wanna do, honey, you kinda stick your chest out and go, of course I'll be them. I'll take care of everything, little lady. You know, and it's like, then you find out you're an idiot. And you really, you know, I don't want to do everything I want to do. I want to do the stuff together. It's much more effective. I make better decisions with the other half of my brain plugged in

called her. Yeah, that's true. You know? And so, who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above Ruby's? The heart of her husband safely trusts her, and he will have no lack of gain. I'm convinced one of the reasons that we're very wealthy today after recovering from bankruptcy 30 years ago is not just that we've made some money, but that we work together. I trust my virtuous wife, and I have had no lack of gain.

I mean, that proverb is playing out right in front of you, boys and girls. So that's what it's about. And Kate, I really like where you all are having fun with this, you're laughing about it. I'll turn it up. I'm going to be obnoxious and turn up the Ramsey books too loud, and that fun and you know you've worked through some tough stuff there in the past and the verbiage that you use tells me it's probably way in the past and Ken's probably exactly right that him saying I'm going to participate in the decision making like a grown man, not necessarily

do all the detailed stuff because I can tell you Kate's the detail in there. Yeah, no question. Okay, but him saying that is part of him coming past the former problems and saying, all right, I actually have an opinion and it does matter even though I have that in my past. That's right. And that's a part of his healing. Yeah, it's absolute restoration is what I'm hearing here. Yep, amen. Amen. And that it's really, really powerful. Builds trust like you wouldn't believe. Joanna's with us in Youngstown, Ohio. Hi, Joanna, how are you? Well, I'm doing good. Thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? So, we, my husband and I, currently are doing the financial peace program and we're

trying to pay off debt. My husband is an army veteran and he is now a owner operator, semi truck driver. He went to buy a new truck at the beginning, he's planning on doing one this year and they looked at our credit and our credit they said was too bad for him to get another loan for another good semi great good yeah because now you're not much further in debt that was another big purchase but this has me terrified because all we have is a thousand dollars in savings as we're trying to pay off this debt. Good.

And if that truck does break down, sometimes to get it back over the road, you drop forty thousand to get it back over the road. In your business, he's running a business, you need to have retained earnings that are more than to cover repairs, a reasonable repair. But going and buying a new truck because this one might break and going another forty or earnings that are more than to cover repairs, a reasonable repair, but going and buying a new truck because this one might break and going another 40 or 50 or 100 thousand dollars in debt because this might break is a really stupid idea so I'm really thankful you got turned down for that. But over in his business

he needs some retained earnings to cover repairs because he's done over the road truck driver. That's common sense. Absolutely put some savings over there more than a thousand. This is the Ramsey Show. I hate to admit this, but I don't always eat right. I know I need to eat more fruits and veggies, but sometimes I just have to pound some chips because they taste so good. That's why I love my field of greens. It helps me eat healthy when I don't have much time. And each fruit and vegetable in field of greens was doctor selected for a specific health benefit heart lungs kidney Metabolism even healthy weight and folks. I ain't getting any younger

It's super easy to mix with water and here is the great part of it I thought it might taste like grass, but it tastes great. And only Field of Greens makes this promise. Your doctor will notice your improved health or your money back. So go to www.fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey for 20% off your first order. That's www.fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey to save 20% on your first order. Ken Coleman Ram Ramsey personality is my cohost today. Number one, bestselling author and host of front row seat. You should check it out on Ramsey networks on YouTube and podcasts and all those

places that you see that Ramsey network thing like the Ramsey network app, which is free. All right. Samantha's in Springfield, Illinois. Hi, Samantha. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Thank you so much, Dave and Ken for taking my phone call. I really appreciate your time.

Sure, what's up? So I have a bit of an interesting question. I am trying to figure out how to navigate graduate school as a non-traditional student. Cool, what are you gonna study? So I am a bit ambitious in that I want to do a combined MDJD program. Okay, why? So about a year ago I did a,

I volunteered for the county and I was working with amazing defense attorneys and I loved the work so much I didn't realize how much I was gonna enjoy it so I started assisting them with case files and I mean when I came home I was just super excited. So what's wrong with just going to law school? Oh nothing actually. Okay. So why the ambitious, maybe explain that to us, what's the reason for going and getting this particular route? Before I wanted to be a lawyer, I was pretty headset on becoming a doctor. Um, I currently have an associate's degree in psychology.

Um, and just a little bit about me. Um, I have two children. Um, they are both in elementary school. elementary school and I do work full time. I work from home so that has been really helpful with navigating school. And I will be starting my bachelor's degrees here in the fall and currently how that's going to be paid is 60% of it is going to be grants. 30% of it is going to be scholarships through the university.

And the rest of it will be paid for. That's great. But here's my question. Let me jump in, because you asked us for our thoughts on how to do this. And so my question is, why are we doing this? I mean, I understand you initially wanted to be a doctor, but now it sounds like you've fallen in love

with the legal side of things. Where do you want to be 10, 15, 20 years from now? MD, being a medical doctor and a lawyer simultaneously serves zero purpose. Yeah, and I was expecting some unicorn description here and you don't have that. So where do you want to be 10 years 15 years from now doing what? Law or medicine? So I currently work for a hospital here nearby and I would love to continue working for them. I just thought that as

far as working in their legal department that it would be really beneficial for me to have a medical background as well. Not at all. No. No. Any doctor would tell you that. It's not going to make you a better lawyer. You need to be smart enough to grasp the issues in the medical field of law, but you don't have to go get an MD to be an effective lawyer in the medical community. Not at all. No, that's like saying I have to be an architect to represent architects in the law

field. No. You know, I have to be an engineer to represent an engineer as a lawyer. No, absolutely not. No, I mean, I think you need to decide what you want to do and it's all over the map. I think that's your issue. And then you can start, you've already figured out how to get the bachelors under your belt with no debt. And then we say, okay we're going to go to law school. What kind of law school? It's obviously going to be a non-traditional law school because you're not going to be able

to do, you know, just stop your life and go for two years with little kids and it's not, you know, so you're going to do some kind of a version. I don't know if it's still open here. We used to have a version here in Nashville that there was, that it was a night school, if it's what we used to call it. You go to night school and you get your, you know, you can become an attorney past the bar. And I knew some of the guys that went through that

and they made great lawyers because they were doing it as an adult. It wasn't theory. They were really digging in. And so something like that and then figure out a way to fund it, uh, with your day job and like you've done on your undergrad with grants and other things. And's the way to go but I think you need some real clarity on because there's there's what you're asking to do to go to law school in your situation is a very tough oh my gosh there's a lot of time and

money you're gonna really go through a lot if you add anything else to that plate the plates gonna break yeah and so we're asking. If you add anything else to that plate, the plate's gonna break. And so we're asking you don't add the MD to the plate. Yeah, Dave's right. Samantha, you need to figure out the mountain. Let's figure out the mountain, and then the best way to climb said mountain. Let's give her my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

It comes with the Get Clear Assessment. This is going to give you tremendous clarity. When you get the results of this assessment in less than about 18 minutes, Samantha It's gonna make it really really clear to you which choice to make and I think you got to listen to your heart here Not your brain try to do it all do the thing that lights you up Yeah And don't listen to your heart to the point that your heart's telling you to do more than these Humanly possible in this process because what you're laying out here is unbelievable. Jesse's in Seattle, Washington. Hi Jesse,

how can we help? Hey Dave, how's it going? Great man, what's up? Well my question for you, I'm 19 years old, I own my own company, it's a contracting company here in the Seattle area and I started about a year ago and I just got my contractor's license here about two weeks ago and I just got my contractors license here about two weeks ago and my question for you being winter time right now works kind of slow and very unpredictable. My question for you should I go out and get another more steady job as well as working my company or since my expenses are pretty pretty low right now

and I can live on a pretty minimal amount should I put my all into my company. What kind of contracting work have you been doing? Just a general contractor. I do just about everything. Retaining walls, land clearing, concrete, just about anything. Everything you just described is inside so it's not everything. Outside so it's not everything. There's inside work available too. Okay, so I understand that. So I not everything there's inside work available to okay so the okay yeah that I understand that so I do not do like inside work like I don't build houses I don't remodel anything

everything I do is going to be outdoors I mean could you do commercial buildouts and tennis and tenant improvements on the inside during the winter yeah I could it's not something I've gotten into yet it's not you don't know how to know how for yeah you know exactly right yes sir all right so I think that what It's not something I've gotten into yet. It's not something we have the know-how for. Yeah, you don't know how. That's exactly right. Yes, sir. All right.

So I think that what I'm going to start to do is explore my business model and say, if I'm going to only do exterior work and I'm in Seattle, I'm going to have to have something else to do during the winter. Yes, sir. Right? Yeah, totally. 100%. So I do have another. It's kind of a, it's not very steady.

It's down at the rail yard in Tacoma. I work down there when they have an excess of work. I'm maybe working there like once a week or so. I mean, it's, you know, it's 300 bucks a day. So just my work's really, it's really not very steady right now. And, you know, so that's kind of what I'm talking here. Go get something. Go get something is the answer to your question. You need to be stacking cash if you're in a seasonal business. But I would also say, Dave is on to something. I would see what you can do outside.

What did you say the outside work is real quick? Run through that real fast. Land clearing is kind of my specialty. Gravel driveways, concrete, and retaining walls, stuff like that. I thought I heard gravel driveways, concrete and retaining walls. I thought I heard gravel driveways. You know what I think though, I think you'd be surprised how you getting into interior flooring could be, there's some transfer of some of that skill when you're talking about gravel driveways and leveling, stuff like that.

I'd look into stuff like that too, which is an extension of what Dave was saying. You're doing interior flooring. That's going on 12 months a year. And I think there's some transferable skills. So if I was you, I would be taking a list of paper today and I'd go, what are my actual specific describable skills based on that work I've been doing so far? And with a little bit of training,

a little bit of observation, I can transfer that skill. That's where the biggest bang for your buck is gonna be. And you're actually doing what Dave told you to do, which is now diversifying your company. Yeah, I might take a job working for another contractor doing interior work of some kind to start to learn the skills. And let that be your winter job.

I just think if you can do gravel driveway, you can do interior concrete. You can do a lot of stuff. It's similar. Concrete's concrete. Yeah. There's nothing done about that. So yeah, I think you're exactly right. But yeah, you need to diversify your product line and the way to do that is go get those

skills. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance—Christian Christian Healthcare Ministries.

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it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. God's and grandma's ways of handling money and life that's what we're gonna talk about here. It's a free call at triple eight eight two five five two two five. Ken Coleman number one best-selling author Ramsey personality and host of the front row seat a new hit show on YouTube on the Ramsey networks be sure and check him out he's gonna help me this hour the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five Greg's in Dallas Texas hey Greg how are you hey Dave how are you doing better than I deserve what's up so I've gotten myself into a situation where I have a couple hundred thousand in

credit card debt and loans that I've let go delinquent. And my question is, do I let it sit there and fall off my credit report? My research showed maybe it falls off in seven years or do I attack it? And the reason I ask that is we're kind of attacking my wife's debt and my truck payment and those debts are about a hundred thousand and we're using the snowball method starting that now to to attack those debts. I just cannot afford to pay these other debts. And part of my question may have been what did you buy for $200,000 on credit cards? A lot of stupid decisions. It's a bad lot. You know, just living a good life. How old are you?

I'm 52. My wife is 52. It's our second marriage. What's your household income? She is a nurse. She brings home, takes home $7,500 a month. And right now, unfortunately, I'm in between jobs laid off. And so I'm driving Uber and probably make four grand a month doing that. But what were you making at your old job? Um, on average, it fluctuated since we've been together the past five years. I'd say on average on average 85,000. We bought a house in January of 2021.

And... How the heck did you get a house? Well, I had great credit before all this. So I had outstanding credit my whole life. I had 800 credit score and wasn't delinquent on anything. So I bought the house. When we got into the house, it was a new build. The payment was around 3K.

And then we got hit with the fact that the first year it was assessed on land value, so it shot up. And then we got, county appraisal went up the first year before we were protected the homestead, 60%. We appealed it, and like our neighbors and in-laws. So the house payment shot up from 3k to about 4,200. Since then it's appreciated quite a bit.

So we removed the PMI and got it down where it's about 3,500 right now. What's it worth? Um, that's the, that's the only good decision we made. Uh, we owe 432 and it's worth on the low end probably $625,000 or $650,000. Cool. And you have $200,000 in credit card debt and miscellaneous loans and then you have $100,000 on cars? No, that's like my wife's card.

So my wife's credit cards and loans before we got married and... How much is your wife's car debt? No car debt for her. Oh, how much is your car debt? That's the first stupid decision I made. How much is your car debt? Forty-two thousand dollars. Okay.

Yeah. So, you're not going to like me, but I'm'm gonna tell you the truth because I love you. Okay, that's what I want to hear. Sell the car and sell the house. Yeah. Well, the car all upside down. Told you I did not. Yeah.

You're not gonna do either one, are you? No, we have discussed that. Yeah, you need to clean house. Because you got $200,000 in equity and you got a car that's absolutely stupid in the middle of this. You bought a house that was stupid in the middle of all this. The only thing that's good is it went up in value and then you're telling me how you can't afford it. So yeah I'm gonna get your career back on the rails and I'm gonna pay off all my debt by selling the house and selling the car and huh whoa look at that you're gonna be renting

something and you'll be debt free. And now you start from ground zero instead of subterranean. You have a negative net worth that's substantial right now. And you need to get back right side up on that. This is killing you. And no, it's not gonna go away, by the way, in seven years. Because the rule on the credit reporting is not the legal obligation

it's just how long do they report it the legal obligation does not go away and they can still sue your butt at the 10-year mark they can sue your butt at the 15-year mark and they will okay so this is not going away by just not dealing with it putting your hands over your ears and going la la la la la la la la and walking through in the midst of the bears and the Tigers they're going to eat your butt. So yeah it might fall off of your credit bureau but it is from date of last activity not

date of not date of default and not date of anything else. So this is not going away until you fix it Greg. So the way you fix it is you sell a car you sell the house get your job back you get to get to make an 85,000, she's making over 120,000. Then you put that together, you got a $210,000 income, you can rebuild, save up a good down payment with zero debt, and buy a cash car with zero debt, and then save up a good down payment on a house and get you a nice home that you can actually afford. But right now, your life is not good. I mean, you're even talking in circles you have so much stress. Yeah, that's what I heard. I heard the mindset of, oh well, and I'm just going to close my

mind off to all this other stuff over here and only focus on a little bit. And what's happening here is I'm not knocking him at all, but there is this defeatist attitude, a fatalistic. I'm stuck and I can't get out. That's right. And you're not stuck. Which is why, by the way, he's staying in the Uber car a little bit too long. I'm not against Uber.

Let me say this, and I've talked to so many people, I feel like this is becoming more and more of a thing because it's an easy thing as far as stepping from being laid off or fired into something. And I'm all for that. However, if you're not careful you get in that car and you're picking people up and you're staying busy and you kind of go well this is the best I can do right now and you've got to treat those temporary jobs as just that. Temporary. You are getting after it to try to replace that income, not settling for a 50% cut and just reasoning

it away. And that's the reality. I don't mean to be unkind. It's not a mean spirit. I'm saying that. It's just I know how the brain works, Dave, and activity starts to replace intentionality. And there's a big difference between activity and intentionality. In other words, someone tells me, well, Ken, I submitted 200 resumes today. That's a bunch of activity, but that's not intentionality.

You didn't go see somebody. You didn't go have coffee with somebody. And so that's what we got to be careful of is not replace intentionality with activity. Yeah. I want the temporary job to be something I hate. Absolutely. So that it's temporary. Right. Because I don't ever want to go back. I don't ever want to live like that again. I don't ever want to have to do that. I don't ever want to have to pay that price

to pay my bills. That's a great point, you know, because it's kind of nice rolling around in your car, your car, listening to your podcast, picking people up. That's nice. Hey, I was going to say, you're kind of messing with our audience here, because I mean, this is who you think's listening to you, man.

You just told a whole bunch of people not to do them, but seriously, yeah, it's... Activity and intentionality, there's a difference. Yeah, if you take three part-time jobs to replace your old full-time job, they should all make you want to go get your old full-time job back. That's right. Or something better, but not something worse. You don't want to be doing that at 52 and then look up at 62 and you're still doing the same thing.

So, Greg, you're probably not going to do what I told you to do, but you should, you should sell the car. A $45,000 car and you're using it for a taxi wow think about that not a good use of money this is the Ramsey show hey listen up everyone is at risk of identity theft I don't care if you're a hermit living off the grid listening to the show on a battery-powered radio. All of your data

collected by every company you've ever done business with lives online. Your bank, your doctor's office, retailers, the apps on your phone, the gas station where you have loyalty rewards, they all store your info online making them ripe for a cyber attack or data breach. That's why I've been telling people for almost 25 years they need an ID theft protection plan and the only one I've ever recommended is from Zander Insurance. They monitor your personal and financial info, even your home title, and take over the work if you become a victim.

It's the most thorough and affordable plan out there. I even have it for my family and our entire team. Visit Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Listen guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money, so let's go ahead and settle this right now. You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money where to go so you can stop wondering where it went. So if you're going to start winning with money, you have to get

on a budget. The easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the Every Dollar Budget app. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free so no excuses. Download Every Dollar in the App Store or Google Play today. Money and relationships can be two of the biggest stressors in life. If you're feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or uncertain you're not alone. Dr. John Deloney and me, Dave Ramsey, we're going on tour to six cities with the

Money and Relationships Tour. You're going to learn how to take control and shift your mindset around money and relationships for good. It's going to be a different kind of experience at these events. We're going to put up a list of topics before the show starts for the live audience and you're going to vote with your app and then we're going to do the topics you vote for. I like that. That's kind of fun. I like that. That's a little bit a little bit stressful but I think we can do it. Like me and John are ADD both enough that we can just kind of pull from the holster and shoot and reholster right? I was gonna say the tool belts got plenty of tools. Hey Louisville Kentucky April 21st get your tickets Durham North

Carolina April 23rd Atlanta April 25th in the Fox Theater yeah that's a great venue it's a cool venue it's a great old venue down there Phoenix Arizona we're gonna be over there May 5th Fort Worth on on May 7th. And Kansas City on May 9th. Don't wait. Tickets are selling out on these. They're not yet gone, but you don't want FOMO on this. So there you go. Or yeah, you just, you just do want to be there. That's how that works. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash tour, or if you're on YouTube or podcasts, click the link. Will there be any fine bourbon on the stage in Louisville? I doubt it. Unless it's backstage.

You're not bringing it on stage. I'm not sure that I need my brain dumbed down by that in this environment. No. That would definitely take the job. I'm sure I don't need my brain dumbed down in that environment, but yeah, it could happen. Yeah, Louisville has access to some of that.

Liz is in Dallas, Texas. Hey Liz, how are you? Oh my gosh, hi. I'm so nervous. Okay, so I've been with my boyfriend. I've been with a man for four years now. He's 17 years older than I am. And it's been quite emotionally abusive and I'm trying to leave, but I have $23,000 in debt. I only really count $6,000 of debt because 17 of it is car, which I'm, I feel like all are going to tell me to get rid of it, but I don't want to. I'm just trying to figure out how to navigate like paying off this $6,000

because it's affecting me of getting, it's affecting me from getting a place of my own right now. And I have a bonus from work coming up and I'm just like, I don't know how to navigate. I'm 27. And how much money do you make honey? I make 2,400 a month. Doing what?

Um, I work for a very, very large health insurance company as a customer advocate. And so you work 40 hours? Yes. Do you have any kind of education or training? Uh, no. Okay. Well, one of- You're a high school graduate?

Yes. No college? No. Okay. Well, one of the high school graduate. Yeah. No college. No. Okay. All right. I'm going to jump in quick cause there's some money stuff that Dave's going to get to, but I want to tell you one of the strategies here you've

got to be thinking about quickly is raising your income. Yeah. How do you take the skillset that you have? You're at a big time healthcare company. So you're in the building. How can you move up within the building? What skillsets can you add without going to college? What other

types of work can you do to where we can get that income up by a minimum of I want to say 25 to 50 percent is your goal. You need more income. You just don't have much to work with. You're making $15 an hour. It's not good. And you know, the going rates 20 at target. Well, I, um, technically make like 1975 before taxes. Okay. So 2400 stake on it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I live like two hours from Dallas. So it's like pretty good for here.

Where's your family, hon? My dad lives in a motel about an hour away and my mom lives in Missouri and she lives off the government so she's not very... Okay, are you plugged into a church there in your community? Yes. Okay, I want you to go sit down with a pastor in the next three days and Ask them for some help To get you out of there Okay, and that's not to pay off your debt. I think we need to do two things We need to you may need to move to a more metro area where you can get a better job And but but you can't stay there you can't stay there another another two

weeks I want you out of that house okay okay um did not let you stop whoa whoa you didn't hear me you did you just you just drove right past that and I saw you I saw your brake lights as you went around the corner okay I'm telling you you've been putting this off and you know the situation that you're in is evil and wrong and you need to leave. Do you hear me daughter? Yes. Get out of there now and don't talk to me about I'm gonna trade my safety and my mental health for a freaking car Get in the car and drive to Dallas and get a job Get in the car and talk to your pastor this week and get some help to get out of this situation

Because he has stolen your confidence Yeah, yeah because he has stolen your confidence. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Almost like I've done this before, haven't I? Yeah. Okay. Your dad's in a hotel, your mom's on government, so you got nobody in your corner that's telling you you're a champion, and I'm telling you you're a champion and you deserve better than you're getting okay okay you've never seen anybody in your family win and you're gonna be the first one that goes and wins you're gonna go do something okay I want to hear I want to hear a hero story about you from you six months from today that you're making $25 $30 an hour you're

standing alone with your shoulders square and your chest stuck out with pride and the debt is gone and you're getting control of your life okay? Okay. You can't sit in this cesspool anymore. You're sitting in sewage. Do you smell it? Yeah.

I smell it from over here. Yeah. You don't need this guy to win. You don't need him. And he's become this weird support system for you that he's abused and manipulated. So you got to make a clean break. I'm with Dave. Clean break. Yeah. Go see a pastor in the neighborhood right now and a loving pastor at a good church in your neighborhood will take care of you honey and they'll get you set up and get you put get you out of there and then help you get the next steps into a better position making more money. I want you working more than 40 hours and I want you making $25-$30

an hour and you can clean up this mess and you can create a sustainable life, stand alone, on your own, you are a warrior princess. And it's time you act like it. It's time you go be the champion God designed you to be right now. And this has got to change kid, and it's not going to change until you change it. It's not going to change until you believe what I'm telling you is to be true. That you are worth being treated well. You're worth it. And so you need to go get yourself in a position where everyone that looks at you says, this woman demands that I treat her well. She's a warrior princess and she won't tolerate anything else. And that's who you're becoming as I speak right now. That's who you're becoming. And you've got to go do that. And you got to go do it now. You hang on, Christian will pick up and we'll find out the little town that you're in and see if

we've got some connections there with some local pastors and we'll help you get connected with one of them and get some people in your corner that aren't the kind that you currently have in your corner. You need a different crew, kiddo. Wow, what a mess. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Ken, it is hokey as it can be, but this idea of what you believe matters more than the actual reality. Because you end up creating your reality is what you believe. And if you believe that you're not worthy, then all of a sudden you're not worthy. Yeah, when you start to believe you're worthy, then you become worthy Yeah, you know thoughts are very powerful and our brain goes and finds evidence to give truth to these thoughts

So changing your mind is a huge part of changing your life You hate to see this out of destruction or parents and that poor girl Just got to believe that she's worth it. Yeah, amen. This is the Ramsey Show. Listen, I know a lot of you would rather watch paint dry in slow motion than file your taxes. But thankfully, you don't have to dread filing

when you've got Ramsey Smart Tax. It comes packed with everything you need to file online before the big deadline. That means all major federal forms and deductions are covered with no hidden fees. Plus, with Ramsey SmartTax, you can save up to 70% compared to other tax software out there. It's a no-brainer. Just go to ramsysolutions.com slash SmartTax and see how simple tax filing can be. That's ramsysolutions.com slash smart tax. Our question of the day is brought to you by why refi are defaulted private student loan payments dragging you down.

Why refi could help save you thousands of dollars. Visit why refi.com slash Ramsey to see how they can help. That's the letter. Why are E F-f-y dot com slash Ramsey might not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Daniel in Oklahoma. My church is very big on encouraging its members regarding tithing. Our church leadership recently said, do not focus on investment for retirement, but focus on investment given to church and the Word of God. Retirement investment can go up and down, but investment in your church and God's Word will always prosper. Should we stop investing

in order to fund our local church?" Well, if, all caps, if a leader of the church said this to an individual, to you, or corporately from the platform, if they said this, this is not biblical, Dave, and so the answer would be a resounding all caps no from us. It would be a resounding change churches. Yeah, this is borderline apostasy. Let's walk through what portion of this is accurate, and I don't know if you've twisted this

or not Daniel or you heard it through a different lens of some kind so I'm not positive what church leadership has said other than what you told us okay so we have to go on what you told us because the only information we have now number one the tithe is not in place of retirement the tithe is a tenth of your income the word when you look it up in the Hebrew or in the Greek Jesus used is not in place of retirement. The tithe is a tenth of your income. The word when you look it up in the Hebrew or in the Greek, Jesus used the word tithe twice, when you look it up in it literally means tenth. It means

10 percent. And evangelical Christians have taught for over a thousand years that we believe that a tie, the tenth of our income, goes to our local church to support the work of God. So if you're attending a church, you're an evangelical Christian, that's a standard teaching in a Baptist church, in a, you know, any kind of normal Protestant church out there. That a tenth of your income, standard evangelical belief and teaching, I've taught it for 30 years and I tie the tenth of my income to my local church. Okay? That's what I believe. I believe that to be biblically correct. Above that 10% is not more tithe. It's because by definition you can't be

more, you can't say I'm to tithe more than 10% because the word means 10% so anything above that is called an offering to support the kingdom of God or to support the community work that the church is doing which is good work usually and and so yeah there's nothing wrong with that and you do want to be doing a portion if not a good portion of your generosity in your budget to things that are eternity oriented or moth and rust don't destroy which this person said retirement investment can go up and down but investment into the kingdom of God they said church and God's Word you're not actually giving God's Word money. You're following God's Word when you give money into God's kingdom. God's Word is the Scriptures. You don't give the Bible

money. That's not, that's not, it's incorrectly stated. So that's why I'm kind of thinking, Daniel, you've misinterpreted this or heard some of it wrong. I don't know. I hate to accuse your pastor of straight up craziness, but the way you presented this, it sounds like crazy. Okay? So yes, I tithe, and yes, you should put money where moth and rust don't destroy. You should put money towards things that matter in eternity, not things that matter short term and retirement compared to eternity is short term and the Bible says you should save for your needs in the house of the wise our stores of choice food and oil the diligent prosper. These are actual scriptures from the Bible that I just quoted. And so wise people save money for a rainy day. They save money for purchases and they save money in our society to retire with dignity so they

don't have someone else having to take care of them. They don't become a charity case of the government or a charity case of their church because they took care of themselves. They were wise, they were diligent, and they prospered and in the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil. So the Bible very clearly teaches to tithe, to invest money into God's kingdom where moth and rust does not destroy. And the Bible teaches to save and invest. God, it is the Lord your God, it says in Deuteronomy, that gives you the power to build wealth.

Hmm. How is that consistent with give it all to the church and don't save any for retirement? It's not consistent. That's as you said in the opening part on this, not biblical. Okay. So this sounds like a money grab the way you presented it, but that could be that it's how it felt to you and you change the words around to match your feeling I don't know what was really said by church leadership here I know what you say they said and I'm again I have to go on that because I don't But I don't know many churches that would say this

I agree and we were we worked with tens of thousands of churches across America and almost none of them say something like this. This is a, if someone is actually saying this, it's probably some kind of sick, toxic little small church. There's something going on that's wrong. If they're actually saying this, give us all the money, don't save anything for retirement and God will take care of you. That is not what the Bible says. It doesn't say that. And so, you know, we're not going there. But, do I believe in tithing? Yes. Do I believe in giving to eternity? Yes. Do I believe giving to eternity is more

important than saving for retirement? Yes. But it's also important that you do both, according to God's love letter to me, which is called the Bible my heavenly father Which if we being evil know how to give our kids good gifts how much more so our father in heaven our father says that loves us that the diligent prosper and that in the house of the wise our stores of Choice food and oil wise Wise people save money, diligent people prosper. It's the Lord your God that gives you the power to build wealth. This

is all from His mouth, not from your preacher's mouth. And so that's what you can measure this stuff against is figure out, okay, to what extent is church leadership out of line with what the scripture says, and if they're too far out of line and it seems to be self-serving that's a disqualifier as a place to go. That's right. You need to leave. That's right. Full stop. That you know you don't hang out in the place that's got you know they're trying to milk the cows every Sunday. That's manipulative. Trying to shear the sheep every Sunday. That's right. It's evil. That's just nuts. So, but is it wise? I wish more pastors would do a better job of teaching the importance of giving versus

consumption because it's better for you. If you're listening to me, you will have a better life if you consume less as an American and we consume massive amounts in this country. We spend more on our dogs and cats than most people in other countries spend raising their children. Now you've gone and stepped in it. Yeah I know I did literally and so... No pun intended there. And I've got a dog that I like more than most humans. But that doesn't matter. I mean, we consume.

And I'd love for us all to talk about consuming a little less and being a lot more generous. It was just a couple of percentage points. You could shake this entire country up in ways that would blow your freaking mind. If we said, okay, I'm going to cut back on pet and Christmas and Halloween by 5%. You can fund entire children's hospitals for two years with that amount of money. It's hundreds of millions of dollars. Would I love preachers to talk more about that and less about and more about giving

into the kingdom of God and the work in the community and charitable work. Yes, but I don't want you doing it this way. If this guy is really doing this, I'm going to call him out and say, no, honey, you're not following the word of God and I'll challenge you on that and I actually know what I'm talking about and you don't want to get an argument with me on this. It's the only thing I've studied for the last 40 years. I actually know what I'm doing. This is the Ramsey Show.

Hey guys, good news. Presale is on now for my new book, Build a Business You Love. If you're a business owner, you know running a business is hard. That's why I wrote this book, to share what we learned over the last 30 years so business owners can grow your business faster with fewer mistakes. Pre-order your copy today and you'll get access to over $350 in bonus items only at ramsesolutions.com slash store. Ramsesolutions.com slash store pre-order today. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today open phones at triple 8 8 2 5 5 2 2

5 Anthony's in Portland Oregon. Hey Anthony welcome to the Ramsey show. Mr. Dave hey thank you for having me on. Sure what's up? Well I have a question I am currently on a plan right now to pay off my house in the next 20 months. We've, we've every penny that we've saved, uh, we've dumped into this house, we've made extra payments and we are currently looking at kind of the end of our mortgage, which is so satisfying.

Wonderful. It is my question though is my company offers a four Oh three B and a four 57. And I'd like to start maxing those out instead of my house payment but someone told me that you know when I'm ready to retire 15 or 20 years from now I'm going to get hit with so many this big balloon RMD, we fired minimum distribution payment that it's not worth investing in just those accounts I should look at something in something different I'm just wondering what your advice would be on that. How old are you? I'm 49. What do you make? I make about 120. My wife makes about 250.

Okay. And you have only 403 Bs and 457s. No 401K's available. My wife does, yeah we have a, we have two Roths, we each have our own. We've got probably 70,000 on our Roth, we have, I currently have about 80,000 in my 403 B. Does your 403 B have a Roth option? It does not. Does her 401K have a Roth option? It does not. Really? No. Because 80% of the 401ks now offer Roth, hers doesn't. Now that I know it, we haven't double checked that. I double check it because I think he probably does. All right. So number one is we want to do Roth if we can because it solves this problem. Roth IRAs, Roth 401ks, Roth 403Bs are not subject to RMD. RMD only applies to traditional. Now RMD stands for required minimum distributions that have to

begin at 73 years old. So what it amounts to is when you put money in a traditional 403B, you do not pay taxes on the money you putB, you do not pay taxes on the money you put in and you do not pay taxes on the growth until you withdraw it. If you have not withdrawn it prior to 73, they require you to begin taking withdrawals, a required minimum distribution because they want their tax money. If it's in a Roth, it's tax free and there is no required minimum distributions. Okay, and I'm nervous about getting hit with this. If we stay with a 457 or 403B. Well, here's the thing. The 457 is a deferred comp. It works differently, but 403B, when you retire, you could roll it to a Roth IRA and pay your taxes then if

you want to. Oh I didn't know that. And then but but here's the required minimum distributions are not huge. There's a it's a table there's a little factor a little table of factors and when you turn 73 it gives you your life expectancy and you pull that table that factor off the table and you multiply it and you know you got a million dollars in there you're not cashing out 300,000 at 73 years old. That's not that it's a small amount. Okay, but they begin making you take the thing down to where they get their tax money before you're supposed to die according to

this table. That's what it amounts to. So it's not that punitive, it's not the end of the world, but the way to avoid it is start moving stuff to Roth and having more and more and more in Roth and less and less and less in traditional. So whoever told you to not invest because of RMDs does not know what they're talking about. You should invest even if you have RMDs. Okay.

Because they're not that punitive. I mean, it's not going to destroy your nest egg. It's just you're going to have to pull out some every year and pay taxes on what you pull out. That's all it is. And do I do that after I retire? At 73 years old, you're required to do required minimum distributions, RMDs. And it's really, I mean, if you want want it it you can understand in about 10 minutes if you just google and look at it

or if you sit down with your financial advisor they can walk you through it's really not that much to it it's not that big a deal and it's not a reason to not do investing. It is a reason to do Roth if you can. The more Roth you have the less you have to deal with that. And by the way Ken, one other benefit I'm now starting to understand at 64, and I hadn't really thought of it before but it turns out I was genius accidentally, was that when you die and you leave an inherited IRA to your family, leave a million dollars in an IRA or in a 401k, inherited,

becomes an inherited IRA. The Secure Act under Biden requires now that inherited IRAs are distributed over a period of 10 years. So if I leave a million dollars to my kids, they have to, in a traditional IRA or 401k, they have to take out $100,000 a year for 10 years, and they have to pay taxes on it as they take it out. If I leave them a Roth, it's tax free, it's not subject to that. It does not have to be unpacked.

It can sit there and continue to grow tax-free. Or if they do cash it in, there's zero taxes on it because it's tax-free. So accidentally moving everything into Roth not only avoids RMD, but it also is a wonderful estate thing for the kiddos and the grandkids. They get this money and it's all tax free. They don't have a tax burden coming with their inheritance through a retirement plan. So, you know, Roth, Roth, Roth, Roth, Roth, Roth, Roth is what the moral of this story is. It's the way to go. So anything you can put over there, your personal Roth, if she's got a 403B or a 401K that's a Roth, talk to your your plant administrator on the 403b.

They may have instituted a Roth option you don't know about. You can check on it and start just chunking all your money into Roth for those two reasons if nothing else. Not to mention the fact that there's no taxes on it. It's wonderful. Yes. Oh it's music to my ears. I love hearing no taxes. Uncle Sam doesn't get his bite of my cookie jar. And that irritates you. I love that you laid that out for me because I didn't know that either, but that's why they're forcing that is so that they can get taxes. Yeah. They want their money.

They want our money. Pay me now. Pay me later. Pay me off. It's not their money. Then pay me again when you die. Oh yeah. Pay me, pay me, pay me, pay me, pay me. Well, maybe not so much anymore but now you see we'll

see yeah wow pretty crazy hmm pretty crazy awesome open phones at triple 8 8 2 5 5 2 2 5 you jump in and guys here's a fun thing you can do this if you're sitting there and the guys 50 he says 49 yeah 49 yeah and I think he said he had a hundred and something thousand dollars saved right he his wife had 300,000 and he had about 120 or yeah about a hundred thousand okay so let's say they got a half million dollars yeah pretty close yeah they're 49 if it's invested in good mutual funds you guys can remember this formula okay if you're invested in good mutual funds and it's

making 10% or a little more on average which it should be because the markets average more than that all right if you're making 10% a little more that lump sum if you don't add anything to it will double every seven years so they're 49 mm-hmm at 56 they got a million mm-hmm at 63 63 you know help me there you go I got a million, at 63, help me there, there you go, they got two million, at 70 they got four million. So this question of RMDs or inherited IRAs, it starts to be, you know, eight million bucks that we're dealing with here if they don't add anything to it. And they live up into their 80s. And they keep investing it in good growth stock mutual funds that have a market-based return. That's where they're gonna be. And so those of you that, you know, you can kind of take that lump sum doubles every seven years plus what you add to

it. Wow. You can get there in other words. You're not, it's not too late. You know, Dave, am I too old to save money? Not if you're still sucking wind. You just keep at it baby. You're never too old till you can't suck wind anymore and then it's over. It's good. Keep at it. Keep at it. Keep at it. Keep at it. There's something, keep at it, keep at it. There's something to do, there's some, listen, if you've got some money, there's always an opportunity to be generous.

And if you're broke, there's not an opportunity to be generous. Keep that in mind. Broke people can feed hungry people. I mean, rich people can feed hungry people. Broke people can't. That's right. So there you go.

Let's think about this. This is The Ramsey Show. Thanks for watching!