The Ramsey Show - Increasing Your Income Jumpstarts Your Wealth-Building

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

💵 Sign-up for EveryDollar today - The simplest way to budget for your life! Jade Warshaw & Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss: "How can I add fun into my budget?" "Should I finance building a new house?" Ken and Jade weigh the pros and cons of paternity leave, "I am completely unhappy at my new job," "Should we sell our house to pay off debt?" 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! Support Our Sponsors: Zander Insurance USCCA Churchill Mortgage Neighborly Next Steps 💡Keep your employees happy, hired, and thriving with SmartDollar.  ☂️Protect yourself with the right coverage—take our coverage quiz! 🏠 Find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life. Three areas. Win with your money, win at work, and win in your relationships. That is the game, and you can crush it.

888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by the fabulous, the incomparable, Jade Warshaw. Now I'm turning into a boxing announcer. Always fun. We love being together. Jade's going to help you on the money issues. I'll weigh in. I'll dive in on the income, and she'll help out on that as well.

That's what we're talking about. More income, getting rid of debt. We have a great group of people, fabulous-looking group of people out in the lobby today watching. You can come watch the show anytime that we're on. Go to ramsaystolutions.com. Look at the schedule. We'd love to see you. Come out and say hi during the breaks and all that jazz. It's always good to have folks staring at us like we're zoo animals.

Speak for yourself, Ken. There's some lovely zoo animals. I would put you as a peacock, maybe. Okay. I'll take that. You okay with that one? I'll take a peacock. Don't tell me what I am. I'm afraid I won't be able to handle it here we go man emmanuel or manuel i never know let's i say manuel let's see st louis missouri what say you um it's emmanuel it's emmanuel but all right no no we got to call you by your name man manual so how can we help

all right all right so i'm about to graduate from college with a degree in mechanical engineering in about a year. Nice. But my dream career is to be a prosthetist. And you have to go to grad school for three years. And that's going to be about $160,000. Plus, there's only like eight schools in America that have it. And the closest one to me is Chicago. Okay.

So far, I've cash flowed all of college, and I want to cash flow grad school, but that's going to take, like, six years, I assume, to, like, save up all that money. And I didn't know if it would be best to just go ahead and take out a loan and, like, pay it off later when I get my career or to go ahead, work as an engineer, save up money, but I don't know where I'll be in life in a few years.

That option. So I'll be like, yeah. Let's break that down. So Jade and I, we want you to go with no loan. So let's start to map this out so it doesn't feel like you're placing your life on hold. Because can we be honest? That's the emotion. And I get it.

Yeah. Oh, six years. All right. Did you say $160,000? Okay. Now here's my question. You said there were only... It'll be $90, I get it. Yeah. Oh, six years. All right. Did you say $160,000? Okay. Now, here's my question. You said there were only... It'll be $90,000 each year.

Okay. And you said there were only eight schools in America that offered this particular degree, grad level degree, correct? Yeah. That's out of my research. Yeah. Is 160 the high, low, or medium of the eight prices? It seems about like the medium, like the regular price.

What's the lowest price? I'm curious. I actually don't know that right off. I'd find out. It's cool to look through. I'd find out. Let me tell you why. The good people that you're going to be putting prosthetics on or designing prosthetics for

and the people that will hire you do not care which school you go to do you agree or disagree with that statement i'm fine with whatever agree yeah all right definitely agree so homework assignment number one jade i want manual finding out what the lowest price school is let's say it's a hundred for sake of discussion okay now all of a sudden if i'm doing the math right now, I always have to have Jade help me because normally I have to take my shoes off to do math. 100 divided by two, Ken. But the point is that you've got a six-year timeline for the 160 price. You're looking at it kind of going, for me to save cash, it's going to take me six years. I'm trying to get you in a

mental process by which you start to go, wait a second, I am not limited and I'm not putting myself on hold. So practically what we're doing right now, Manuel, is we're going, all right, I need to find out what the lowest price school is. Let's say for sake of discussion, it's $100,000. How does that, let's play this game out. How does that change that timeline from six years to, what do you think, off the cuff? I don't know, maybe three, maybe four. I agree with that.

And by the way, we're not holding you to these numbers. We're just working the exercise that you need to do after the call. So now we've shaved off years, right? And let's not forget, we shaved off lots of dollars. And you're going to be making really good money as an engineer. Now I have one other question, and I want Jade to weigh in here. But the other question I have is, is it possible to work your way into this role, not educate your way into this role? What I mean by that is, if you start out in engineering and you make your way into that industry, and maybe there's a level or two below the designing of the prosthetics or whatever you described, Could it be possible that you work your way into that? Or is it only way in is the master's, the grad degree?

From everything I've read, it's the only way in is to a master's. All right, I'm going to challenge you. Let me challenge you. There's a lot of things I've read, and I think I'm right. And then I meet somebody who's actually experienced it and actually knows. So that's homework assignment number two, right? I want to know by talking to somebody in the field who hires people in the field, who's working in the field, is it the only way that I get that job by getting the grad degree?

I think you get that answer and the answer to the first homework assignment, which is what's the lowest cost school of the eight. And Jade, why is it so important that he be patient and wait three years, four years to save up? Why do we have that stance? Well, I'm looking at a couple of things here. So I'm really interested in where the lower price range schools are. I wish I knew that number. Because that dictates a lot for us. But I think that, to Ken's point, while you are where you're at, what will you be earning as a mechanical engineer out of the gate? I'm currently at an internship, and I rolled over to a career, and so I'm not sure what the price is.

I think I've heard a lot it's like around $40,000 as like the first year income. First year income as a mechanical engineer? I don't know. Right after graduation. Okay. I heard it could fluctuate depending where you are, but that's because I'm at a startup now.

Okay. I just think that you need to do a lot more research. I feel like, and I'm not faulting you on this because you've been focused on your education, but I want to turn a lot more research. I feel like, and I'm not faulting you on this because you've been focused on your education, but I want to turn a lot more of those I don't knows or I thinks or I'm not sure. I want those to become way more definite because where you work

and the amount of income that you're able to earn and knowing where you're going to go next is a huge informative piece of this puzzle, right? Like if you find out find out hey there's mechanical engineer jobs in denver that pay twice as much as the ones that are over here in new mexico you're right you know i'm saying and then you find out oh and by the way that least expensive program is also in colorado just a couple minutes outside of town like you might find some things that really inform the choices that you make next so you're really in research mode that's where you're at right now is research mode and then

the mindset simply has to be like ken said no matter what i do debt is not an option so maybe you're calling those places up and you're saying hey i've got this degree i've been working in this field for the last year and a half is there i'm so interested in working my way into prosthetics. What can that look like? Is there a program? Is there a fellowship? Is there an internship? How can I do this to where you guys are going to fund part of this or all of this? Ask questions. And man, y'all just leave it with this. I want you to go watch our documentary Bar of Future because there's a dentist that's featured in that powerful documentary, and you just need to get his story because if he could get a hold of you, he'd go, it is not worth all the debt on the back end. Even though you're doing the thing and you're making good money,

you do not want to be stuck with all that debt and resent the very thing that you feel you're supposed to do with your life. You're going to do good stuff. Thank you so much for the call. Excited about your future. Man, don't take the debt. It's never worth it. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I've taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones

that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of next week, in the middle of all that grief, like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking

care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282, or go to zander.com. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me this hour, and we are here for you, America. 888-825-5225. Dallas, Texas is where we go next. Our Janice is on the line.

Our Janice, how can we help? Hey, how are you guys? First of all, I'm really excited to be on the show my first time. And I have a bit of a different kind of question for you guys. A different kind of question? Here we go. I'm ready. So my question is, how can i budget to have fun the

reason why i'm asking is because a lot of my family is dispersed in different parts of the like the world okay so i always have to find a way to budget to travel and go visit and kind of you know connect back with my family. So that's, to me, it's very important to make memories. Luckily, I never opened up any credit cards. I don't have any debt. I have a house paid off that I'm renting at the moment. I'm actually working on renting out another RV that I have.

So how can I also just budget so that I can go out and kind of just spend my funds, my money and some funds? That's cool. Hey, it sounds like you've done a great job with your financial situation. You don't have any debt. Did you say you have a paid off house, but you're renting it out? Yes. Awesome. And then you've got an RV that you're renting out. Where are you living? I'm actually renting a house. A second house? Yes. Okay. Interesting. Okay. So tell me a little bit about how much income you're bringing in every month. So I'm bringing, just for my job, it's about $4,000 a month. And then with the rental, it's another $1, another 1200 and once i get the rv rented out i'm planning on renting it out for another 750 a month okay and how long will you be able to rent that rv out at 750 because it's going down in value and is the rv completely paid

off yes the rv is completely paid off um so mean, I just would rent it as long as I possibly can or eventually sell it. But for now, I'm looking to just get, you know, some money out of it and just kind of rent it out. And what do you pay in rent? For yourself? I pay $1,000 in rent. $1,000. Okay, interesting. So, okay.

You asked one question, but I can't help but pull a thread of another one. It is interesting to me that you are operating a rental and you're renting for a $200 spread. Yes. So eventually, well, my plan was that I was going to live in it, but the rent's just been increasing more and more in Texas.

I originally am from New Jersey. I moved from New Jersey to kind of get away from all the expenses and stuff, and I came here. So everything started to increase here. So I was like, well, if I just live in it, I mean, I won't really pay anything, but but i was like maybe i can get some money out of it and i'll be honest with you i don't have any kids i don't have like i guess major huge responsibilities in my life right now but the rental is not where you live how far away is it from where you live the rental is 20 minutes from where oh okay okay okay okay let me let me keep myself on track if let me just give you a piece of advice that you didn't ask for if i were you i would not be renting i'd live in the house that you own because it's not

worth when you said it you were right rent is going up so you're charging more but you're also paying more that's why you're never making a spread on it um so if i were you i would live in the house that i own and if you want to do rental property I would save up because like you said you don't have any debt And then I would save up until you can buy another piece of real estate in cash and do it that way and I think You're going to get where you want to go a lot quicker that way. Okay Now let's talk about Go ahead. I'm sorry. The reason why I originally got a rental was because it was a whole mix of between a family thing going on

With the property at first so I kind of rented to get out of that situation but you own the house yes right but it was a whole sentimental thing you know having family come over and can I live in it and things like that so you have family renting the house yes yes right now still you know that yeah i'm sorry still no no not anymore that's what i thought yeah no we appreciate the reason but the advice is still correct yeah jay's right doesn't change it doesn't change what i think that you should do and i get that i'm just a radio person that you called into so um let's get to the crux of what you want to do which is you want to travel more and you And you're on the right track.

You have to put in the budget. So this is just a matter of you getting very detailed on what that looks like. Where are you traveling to? How often are you trying to travel? And really being detailed on what it's actually going to be costing and letting those items be reflected in your line items. So if you're saying, all right, where's one place that you have family? So I can give you an example. Last about two years,

I think it's been two years already, I met up with my uncle. We actually went to the World Cup in Qatar together. So that's one place that we traveled to. He happens to live in Romania. And then his brother, which is my uncle, lives in Spain. And then I have a family in Mexico so it's kind of between like Europe Mexico um in those areas but it's so when you went to Qatar when you went to Qatar what was the problem or was there a

problem I'm guessing that you budgeted to go because you said you don't have any debt. So tell me where the problem lies. So the problem is I also have this thing where it hurts me when I have to start taking money out of my account. For some reason, it bothers me. I got to a point in my life where even though I know I have a good emergency fund and my checking account is still good. It starts to bother me when it goes down. It might feel a little excessive. Like, here's what you have to decide the tension between. You said that it's important for you to see your family, but we also know that your family,

it sounds like, is spread across continents and countries. So it can, when you're making $4,000 a month, I'm just going to be honest with you, it can feel excessive if you're going to Spain and Mexico and Romania and Europe and Qatar. Like there is a part of that, that even if you're making it work, there's probably a part of you that's like, hey, can this money be better spent elsewhere? And that's where you are going to have to go. Okay, the opportunity cost of this is what? If I'm going to Qatar, if I'm going to Romania, if I'm going to Mexico, is that keeping me from investing? Because are you currently investing 15 percent of your income?

So I'm not really. I do. But things that I really need to be doing, right? So the way we teach is you're already in a great spot. You have no debt. Do you have any money saved? Not retirement, but just like a saved emergency fund? Yes, I do have some money saved. How much? I have about 12 grand right now. Okay, great. So you might bump that up a little bit since you're a single guy, try to get it to six months of

expenses. But then I think what's happening is you're not investing. And we would suggest that at this point, you're investing 15% of your income every single month, every time you get a check. And I think once you start doing those things, you're going to go, okay, when I have extra, it truly is extra. Like I'm taking care of the things I'm supposed to take care of. And then it's reasonable for you to think, okay, I'm a single guy. I don't have a lot of attachment. Are there really, are there two trips that I can plan a year? Yeah. And this is pretty simple. You need to reset your expectations. You just don't have a lot of margin. I think you said your rent was a thousand. You make 4,000. That's too high.

We've already told you what to do there. Run the baby steps out. And after you do everything that Jay told you, it's back to the line item and the budget. I've got, I'm making this up, $150 a month that I could put towards the, we used to have a envelope called the blow envelope when Dave first started to teach. It was like blow money, fund money. And that's how you started the call. So here's the deal. I'm going to save up $150 a month because that's what I can do after I take care of business. And here's the other thing.

I would sell the RV and get what money you can for that now. Yeah, that's a losing. It doesn't make a lot of sense. So let's say it's worth $15. I'd go ahead and get the $15 cash, and I'd start applying that to the baby steps. And I also want to challenge you to make more money in four grand a month, you know, more income. If I got to take on a side hustle and all of a sudden that side hustle is my travel fund. Fantastic. But I think it's very simple, real expectations based on your income and then some discipline. And I think you're a

disciplined guy. Um, but I think there's some strategies that you can take to bring in more income and not be putting money into things like renting when you own a home and an RV. It's a depreciating asset. I'd sell it now. He's trying to do the most. He's trying to do everything. Yeah.

I'd rather travel. You've got to scale it back. If it were me, I'd rather travel. Yeah, scale it back. So there you go. Thanks for the call, Argenis. Appreciate you. This is the Ramsey Show.

Quick break. We're coming right back. Don't move. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. That's 888-825-5225. If you're new to us, and boy, we hear about this all the time,

new people coming in all the time, YouTube, podcast, first of all, welcome. We're thrilled you're here. This is a safe place, and I'm telling you, when you talk about money, when you talk about your work, you know, your income, you talk about your relationships, it's very vulnerable. And I just want you to know that we're here to help you as a caller. You aren't a prop. You are the reason we do the show, and you represent millions of people who can connect to you. So I just wanted to say that if you're new, welcome, but feel safe. That phone number is for you, and we want to help you win. Jade Warshaw is alongside of me. I'm Ken Coleman. We're your friends. I promise. 888-825-5225. All right,

up north we go. New Haven, Connecticut. That's where Chris is waiting. Chris, how can we help? Hey, thanks for taking my call. How are you doing? We're having a blast. What's going on? So, work question for you. Hoping you can help me out. Okay. Love my job. Absolutely love it. Been there for about two years. Work for a very big company. So you can kind of see where I'm going here. And I've heard stories about this all the time, but I was hoping it would never happen to me, is that everyone loves my work. Everyone loves what I do. I have no problems with the people I work with at all, but I was promised a promotion at my most recent review.

It's not like I was begging for one. It was discussed heavily. Well, it's been quite a few months and it still hasn't happened yet. So I absolutely love what I do, but how do I be a little more aggressive and pushing for that without burning bridges? Sure. All right, let's go back. So you said you weren't begging for it. Did you bring it up or did your leader bring it up in

the review? This idea? My leader did initially. Interesting. Did they give you a timeline? No. And did they discuss any comp? They discussed a potential increase. Nothing specific. I've got to tell you, I love Jay's question. If you combine it with no details at all on timeline, what it looks like, I feel like maybe this was a carrot. I think you're doing a really good job, and I think this leader is probably a inexperienced leader. I'm not going to project anything more negative than that, but I think that's an immature move. And it feels like,

whether it was intentional or not, it feels manipulative in the form of they're dangling a carrot. And for people that are really young and never heard that analogy, that's the idea of, you know, the old cartoons, you know, they would tease Bugs Bunny or whatever with a carrot and a stick and just hold it out just far enough that he couldn't get it to keep him moving. And that's the idea. And Chris, you resonated with that when I said it, correct? Yeah. Okay. Now let's go back for a second. You said that you weren't begging for it. So had you had this annual review and the boss says, Hey, we love you. Love what you're doing. Great job. Keep it up. And we feel like if you keep it up, you've got some real growth here. Had they left it at that, how would you walk away from

that meeting as opposed to kind of expecting a promotion soon? How would that be different? Pretty good. You'd have been fine. Yeah. Yeah. So now here's what you've got to do. You've got an immature leadership move.

Now you have to be mature. So I'm talking mindset first. I'm going to tell you practically what I would do in a second. But I want to make sure you now have to hold serve and go, that was an immature move. I got to be mature. Does that make sense? Absolutely.

And that's why I'm going back to reframe it. You would have been fine. You'd have just been, man, I'm really enjoying this. Now, everybody wants to progress. Every human wants to know, where do I stand now, and do I have an opportunity to progress? So now this has been dangled. It hasn't happened.

What I would do is I would set up a meeting and I would go back in and say, hey, at my annual, this is what was said. And it got my brain going. Now I want to give some ownership to the boss, but I'm going to be humble with this. It got my brain going and we haven't talked about it since. And so I started going, you know what? What would a growth plan look like? And so I want to come back to you and go, hey, in the annual, we didn't really talk about maybe some areas where you think that I can grow some skills, maybe some tools I can add to my tool belt. Make this about humble and hungry here and go, what do you think? I'd love to see some more feedback on that.

And then, hey, is there a timeline? And how is that timeline affected by my performance? Because you kind of got me excited. And so we're going to put it back in their plate with some humility, and here's why we're doing that. We're going to find out really quick whether that was truly a carrot, and we're going to give that leader actually a little bit of what I'm going to call positive pressure to come up with a plan.

But you're going to put it in their lap. They get to develop the plan, and we want to measure it. And so when I create a personal growth plan that they help map out and it's tied to performance and the performance is tied to income and promotion, now we got ourselves a plan. And that's the best way to ask for a raise, never ask for a raise. But in this situation, it's not as simple as the raise. That's how I would go about it. I'd love to know what Jade thinks. How would you go about it? What would you do? I think you're right, Ken. What was formulating in my mind, and it might be the question that Chris has or maybe somebody listening, is if you are in a position and you

have outperformed your position to the point where you can be talking about a raise, what's a fair time frame for you to see that play out in the form of an actual income increase? Because Chris might go and follow your instruction and the guy be like, okay, yeah, and they create a roadmap or a rally plan around this, but what's a fair timeline to watch that shake out? Yeah, it's a good question. I'll answer it, but Chris' question, did you get any kind of annual bump? And we know in corporate America, your typical bump on an annual raise, and usually it's tied to your annual, is a three to four percent bump. Did you get any kind of annual bump? I did. What'd you get? Three percent. Okay, so that falls within the averages. So this was not about the raise in this

case. It was kind of like you're in line for a promotion and then there's just been crickets. So to answer your question for Chris, you always, your baseline for a raise discussion is usually at your annual. And then outside of that, that's where I want to be developing a plan to where I'm not just relying on the annual 3%. And I call it like a growth plan's where I want to be developing a plan to where I'm not just relying on the annual 3%. And I call it like a growth plan. I always want to sit with my leader and go, and I do it here. But I mean, even with that, what's the time frame on that?

I don't think there is. That's too formulaic. I think it is based on if I'm talking to my leader and we're talking healthy here and the leader's going, I see you're a performance guy. Let's lay out a path for growth. And if I hit these numbers, then I get this. That becomes its own timeline, if that makes sense. I see.

Yeah. But Chris, let's let you step in here. I mean, we told you what we thought. Any more questions? Does that help? You have more questions? What's going on in your head? I think it's all good.

I'm willing to work with them let's just say that but i don't i don't want to again like you said be waiting too long well you know what's going on this this this dangling of the carrot has created a potential for resentment yeah it went as whistle and now you get it let's go you get it so i i would do it the way that because here's what we're going to do if you do what i told you to do we're going to find out real quick if they meant it right now i think you and i and jade are going there's a possibility they meant it and they're busy they've got distracted or maybe or maybe circumstances changed and they just haven't been good at communicating i think you need to get to the

bottom of it so that you now have uh expectations. That keeps us from being resentful. Does that make sense? Absolutely. All right, my man. Hang in there, but go after it. Listen, let me tell you this. I wrote this in my first book, The Proximity Principle. It was about connecting and turning connections and opportunities, but it's true in this situation, Jade, and this is a good reminder for people. You know, you're not the only person your boss leads. Right. And there's a guy I used to work for who used to tell me this. I don't know where he got it, but he said, nothing's moved unless it's shoved. And sometimes you've got to shove your leader a little bit because you're not the only person they're thinking about. They didn't wake up this morning, and while they're getting ready for work,

they didn't go, huh, I've got to think about Chris's cop plan and how I'm going to promote him today. They're just not. So you've got to stay in front of them a little bit, and there's an art to that. What say you about that? I think that's exactly right. I think sometimes –

You know what I'm talking about. I think sometimes it's a little bit of a test to see how bad you want it and are you going to go get it and make it happen. Push forward. There's a respectful push. Oh, 100%. And it's basically get in front of your leader and be like, Hey, remember when you said that thing?

Yeah. Hey, I want to play. Yeah. Listen, there were times where I got in the game only because I said, Hey, coach, I'm ready to get back in. Put me in, coach. And he was like, Oh, yeah, Coleman. All right, get back in.

That guy's coaching the game. I got to tell him, want to go in, coach. This is the Ramsey Show. Buying your first home is a big deal and sets the stage for your financial success. So work with a mortgage advisor you trust, not just some random website. Churchill Mortgage is Ramsey trusted because they help you avoid hidden traps and expertly guide you through every step. Learn more at churchillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSConsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. So thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is with me as well. And we're here for you, America. 888-825-5225. Now,

the board says on line four that Jim from Scranton, Pennsylvania is on the line. And you know what I'm thinking. Come on, Michael Scott. It's all I can think about is Dunder Mifflin. I'm hearing the theme song in my head right now. All right, let's see what this is all about. Jim, you're on the Ramsey Show. How can we help? Hi, Ken.

Hi, Jade. I had a question about a vehicle loan. What's up? I have my emergency fund saved. I have six months emergency fund saved. I have six months expenses saved. The only debt that I have is my mortgage and this vehicle loan. Okay. My question is, I'm fortunate enough that my job provides a pension.

So I have a pension for retirement. Okay. And I also am involved in a deferred compensation program with that. Okay. That's great. Separately, I have a Roth IRA that I no longer contribute to. Okay. So my question is, that Roth, should I cash that and pay off my vehicle, my truck? No, I would not do that.

But I do wonder why you have a Roth IRA that you no longer contribute to because if you have a pension, we would still say that you're investing a certain percentage into separate retirement funds. And a Roth IRA would be a perfect place to start. Sure, sure. So I do have a separate one. The Roth that I was talking about, I was actually in charge of and I was managing. I changed that to

what we call a deferred compensation. So I do have money coming out into a separate retirement account. It's just that this particular lot is no longer receiving any contributions. Okay. And the deferred compensation, where is it going? What's it going into? I believe it's a pre-tax account, and it's managed by a third party. It's obviously not managed by me. Okay. And are you choosing the investments? No. Okay. So back to what I said, and I'll get to the rest of the question, but this is really important for you and anybody else listening. When you have something like a pension or deferred compensation, that's great, but because you're not in control of it, the pension, obviously,

there's a huge portion of that that you're not in control of. And the pension, obviously, there's a huge portion of that that you're not in control of. And if you die, that money dies with you. So that's thing one. Thing two with the deferred compensation, it's great that you're having money put aside. But again, you're not in control of the investments. Therefore, you're not in control or you have even less control of the rate of return that takes place. So the way we teach here is that if you've got that going on, there's nothing wrong with that, but you should not count that as 15% of your monthly salary going to your 401k. And here's why. And those are the two reasons I just laid out, because you don't have control of it. So let's say if you had an estimate overall,

how much, what percentage of your income is going into the pension and what percentage of your income is going into the deferred plan? So the deferred I have is 10%. Okay. But the pension is basically a set amount depending upon your yearly salary. And are they taking it from your salary or it's just them putting that money aside for you? That I'm not sure. Okay, let's find out about that. Because if it's just them putting money aside for you, then I would count that as 0% when it comes to your 15% that's being invested.

And as far as this deferred thing, I'd probably count that for about half because you don't have, you're not in control of it at all. So let's say that you, that 10% count that as 5%. And now we still need to do another 10% of investing into plans that you have control over. You're choosing the investments. And that's why that Roth IRA is still a good place to keep putting money into. And for that reason, I would not withdraw money from that. And even if that wasn't the case, by the way, I still wouldn't pull money out of a retirement vehicle to pay off a car loan. Is that fair enough?

Yeah, yeah. That 10 percent. So maybe that was a little confusing. That 10 percent is managed by a financial advisor and they are invested. Right. But it sounds like you don't have any say in the matter. It's just, hey, this guy, we give him this money and he does X, Y, Z with it, right? Correct. So you get to pick either aggressive, conservative, and you can either set a set amount or you could do a set percentile of your, of your pay.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I get what it is in my, my ideals on that remain the same. Okay. So, um, I know I answered part of your question. What was the other part? Because you mentioned a car. Correct. So I, so that, that rock I was no longer contributing to, I could pay off my vehicle with that Roth that I was not contributing to. Well, what do you owe on the car? $18,000. Okay. And what do you earn every month? I'm trying to break it down monthly. And what do you earn every month? Trying to break it down monthly. Roughly around $10,000.

Okay, so... Is that your primary car? I have three vehicles. Okay. I mean, my family has three vehicles, I should say. My wife has one, and then my daughter has a vehicle. But my truck is the only thing that I have a loan on. What's the payment on it? I think it's $500.

I do like $550 a month just to try to pay it off ahead of time. I would just keep working that plan to pay it off. There's no reason for you to borrow from the Roth for all the reasons and hit yourself. Just get it done. It feels like you're trying to fast- something that you regret which i get but in this case that's not a good strategy the only strategy right now is to either sell it and you get something cheaper if you've got equity in it or just go ahead and pay it off you got good income yeah yeah yeah i mean i i can afford the truck and I don't want to sell it. What's your hesitation? Well, I thought I would just, which I'm not going to do now,

but I thought I would just drain the rot. I have that deferred comp, and I have my pension, and then obviously I would start working on my mortgage. I love that you're mad at it, but there's a couple strategies on how to be mad, right? Yeah. And the way you propose is like throwing a tantrum. It doesn't help anybody versus getting focused to knock this out so that's the point let's put him let's put it in perspective because i always have a handy dandy investment calculator here so i want to know how

much is in that roth right now um it's 18 000 it,000. Yeah. Depending upon the market of the, depending on that day. Yeah. Okay. So that's probably one reason it's tempting. So if you don't mind me asking, how old are you, Jim? I'm 38. Okay. You're 38. Let's just, let's just pretend that you decide to retire when you're 68. Okay. So what would happen if we left that money alone that 18 000 alone um and we invest it for the next 30 years and it compounds annually uh at about eight percent that's fair right eight percent i would say you know you want accounts that do ten percent but for the haters let's say eight percent and let's say you don't add anything else to it you just leave it alone at the end of that term that's going to be 181 000

yeah so let it go and let it go yeah let it go you got to let it go and let it grow and i don't think that in the moment it feels worth it to you to say, let me just take that money and pay off this payment. But when you really think of what it could be, if you just sit it there and let it grow, you're going to have almost $200,000 and you didn't touch it as opposed to just you, as opposed to pulling it out now, just use your own income, pay off this car. And I can't, I can't emphasize enough what I said earlier about your investments, especially now that you revealed that you've got a daughter and a wife. That pension is a great, it's great that they're offering that, but that dies with you. So you've got to be investing in

other places and you've got to be investing 15% of your income. Very, very important. Yeah. I mean, I do have a life insurance policy. So I've kind of, I don't know if you want to call it hedge that, but if something were to happen to me, I do have a term life insurance policy. Okay, good. It's term. All right, great. Yeah, term is absolutely smart. But you got the plan. Yeah, of course.

It is, yeah. Okay. Listen, I'm trying to help folks out. I want to make sure he's okay, because your retirement is not just for what happens after you die. It's for your family. It's for you to live. It's for you to thrive. A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children. And that's what we want to get to. Good hour, Jade Warshaw. Thank you, James Childs and the crew. Thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the

Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, winning with your money, winning in your work, and winning with your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number for you to jump in. It's your show. Jade Warshaw is with me. I'm Ken Coleman, and we love taking your questions. So let's get going. Samantha is going to kick this hour off. From the Big Apple, Samantha, how can we help? Hi, Ken. Hi, Jade.

Excited to be here. So high level, we just found out we are expecting our second baby in two years. Very exciting, but we have our hands full. So I work full time. My husband works full time owning his own business. And he has broached the topic of me possibly stopping working or reducing to part-time um and i'm not really sure how i feel about it i don't i don't know if i'm ready to give up working i don't think you are let's stop right there for a second we'll get to the rest of your question but i gotta tell

you we got a working mom beside me and i'm anxious to dive right into this because by the way you said that, I think you're leaning more towards, no, I kind of want to keep working. Am I right? Tell us your real raw feeling when he brought that up to you. I mean, there's a part of me that definitely is intrigued by it. I mean, who doesn't want to be home with their kids all the time? And me. True. Listen, I love them, but I like a break. Me too. And I have a very flexible job. I really like what I do. I like the people I work with.

And I'm home most of the time anyway. I'm pretty much fully remote. Well, why don't you try it? And then if you start having feelings that are like, oh, man, I feel like I want to be home more, then you can adjust. Why do you feel that you have to make this decision before the baby's even here? I don't know. I think it's just more of, you know, it's come up a few times. And I don't know. It got me thinking. And I just. Why does he want to stay up a few times and I don't know it got me thinking and I just why does he want to stay home like what's his reasoning behind it is it a cost thing is it a nurturing thing like what is what are his talking points per se I think probably more towards the

nurturing side um you know I don't think it's a financial thing. We definitely could afford for me to not work. Okay. How flexible? But I think it's just more. How flexible is flexible? When you said your job is flexible and you're homeless, anyway, what does that mean?

Describe flexible. So I'm in the office two days a week, but my boss is very flexible. He's got three kids of his own, so he gets it. You know, if you can't be in this week, you can't be in this week. Or, like, you know, I haven't been in since early December. It's mid-February now, so it's definitely flexible. The days that I am out of the house, they're long days. I have a far commute, a commute into the city. So it could be a 15, 16 hour day, but

it's two days a week for the most part. But what I'm, and I've got a follow-up question. So what does the flexible look like when I'm home? When, when you're three days at home, what kind of free time or control of your time do you have? Pretty much complete control. If I need to step away for an hour, for two hours, if I need to sit on the couch because the babysitter has to leave early and bring my computer with me, I can do that. All right. So I did interrupt you because I wanted to dive in there. So I want to make sure we get to any specific question. But I think you called because you've got some concerns. We know your husband's concerns.

He's like, you know what? I want you to be a full-time mom. It's great for the kids, the nurturing. That's his position. We get it. But you don't make this call if you don't have some concerns about what's on the other side of you walking away. Am I right? Yeah.

What are your concerns? Tell me. I mean, I, from, from one standpoint, I, as much as I know we can afford it and we're in a good position financially, I, there's always that fear that things change and you could always go back to work. What's your income? Yeah, you could always go back to work. What's your income right now? I make $120,000 a year. Okay. And just me or my husband as well. No, I just want to know, because you're giving us your concerns, so I want to walk through those. So one is, we can afford it, but that's also $120,000 pre-tax.

That's a lot of money. What are your other concerns about walking away? I also carry the benefits. What does your husband work, by the way? I just want to know. What does he make? So he owns his own business. So salary, he takes about $150, but then he takes distributions kind of as needed.

And, I mean, we try to limit that just because we don't really need it, so we can keep it in the big room. The health care benefits are going to be very different if his company is carrying them. I've been there, done that. All right, what else? What else is on your concern list? Anything else? I mean, we live in a very high cost of living area,

so I just, you know, there's always the concern. So it is financial. There's two money things you've listed. Yeah. And that's not bad. No, I think it's fantastic. I think it's your call in this situation. I think he's got his preference, but this is a conversation that we have to have at the dinner table with a budget and go,

let's walk through reality. If I walk away, let's start doing a real new budget. We got to start. Can I just be honest? I hope you're always honest. I mean, I feel like if we were talking about a situation where you're like, I go into the city every day, I work nine to five, I come home, I'm exhausted, you know, that would be a lot different of a conversation. But we're talking about a woman who honestly sounds like you have the ideal situation that a lot of moms would be like, oh, I wish that was the situation for me. Well, you kind of have it the best of both worlds in that you've got this flexibility and you can see your children.

You've got three days at home that you're working. But you've also got two days where you go into the office and you get to be a professional Samantha. And so I honestly, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm with you. If I was your husband, I wouldn't have brought this up at all. Real quick, we only got about a minute. Because that's going to put a lot of pressure on him too.

Well, and I want to ask real quick, do you guys have any debt at all just our mortgage okay so again this comes back to this is this is um this is a preference issue you guys need to have a real honest conversation and you need to lay out your concerns with him he needs to hear your concerns we need to put pen to paper on what a real budget looks like without your income. That has to happen. And then we've got to square that up and go, here's the financial piece. I've got concerns about what life looks like with my 120 gone. Let's talk that first.

And then you need to go, and then there's kind of like what I do. I got flexibility. The kids are going to see me every day. I kind of want to stay in it. And you didn't mention this, but my gut is you want to leave the door open to coming back, right? Yeah. And I don't think this is worthy of shutting the door. I'm with Jade 100%. And I'd say as the husband, I'm feeling some type of way. Cause part of me would be like, well, what would it look like then if you stayed home?

I'd turn the tables on this a little bit and figure out. Not me because I want that double income right now. I'm just saying to try to figure out what are we really trying to get at? Is it a money thing? Is it a nurturing thing? I guarantee you. And if you ask those type of questions, you're going to get to the bottom of it. But I guarantee you this is his tradition. Tradition.

The way he grew up, what he's always envisioned, that's part of it. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money in your work and in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me. And Jade and I were just talking

during the commercial break. And I can't give it away, or she's going to punch me right in the throat. But we're going to do something fun at our new, brand new, spanking new event called the Total Money Makeover Weekend. The dates are May 10 and 11.

And it's right here on our campus. Franklin, Tennessee is just a God's gift to the South. And just a suburb of Nashville. So great, great destination place. And you're going to get a crash course on everything we teach about money. Brand new content from all the Ramsey personalities, including Dave. Budgeting, beating debt, investing, and more. And it's going to be really fun in that not only are we going to speak,

but we're going to do a lot of Q&A, a lot of interaction with the audience. And then, as I said, Jade has asked me to join her for a fun moment, and that's all I'm allowed to say. One night only. One time only event. If you've enjoyed our segments on the show in the past, when we talk about budget, she's the budget queen. I've now given her that moniker. We'll see if it sticks.

But it's going to be fun. A lot of fun. Tickets are right now on sale at an early bird price of just $99, but that's limited. We're going to sell out 2400 people in the arena here and it will sell out so come on ramsaysolutions.com slash events ramsaysolutions.com slash events all right speaking of collaborating with you uh you told me right before the show yeah that you got some you got the 411 on some new app.

What is this? What do you have? Okay, so I kind of feel like yesterday was Valentine's Day, and in the spirit of that, I found this new dating app. Actually, my husband sent this to me. I'm a little concerned as to why Sam is sending you information on dating apps, but I'm going to keep that between you two. To clarify.

Sam's a good friend. He's out there in the lobby. To clarify lobby sometimes he'll send me things that he thinks people will want to hear about I know Sam you know I love you I got you Sam I got your back he's a good man so he says it says the new dating app there's a new dating app that only matches singles who have good credit scores come on and it's kind of funny funny because we've talked about this before, about when you're dating and when's a good time to bring up financial stuff. That's fair. What are your barriers to entry? You know what I mean? What does somebody have to have the minimum on the table for you to be going forward? We're going to throw a filter in here.

Yes. Listen, it says just in time for Valentine's Day, the app is called Score. Now that makes me a little uncomfortable. A new app and a website for the financially minded. It hopes to attract people with good to excellent credit scores who know the importance of monitoring their finances. No one with a credit score less than 675 is allowed to join. No way.

675 is table stakes. So they have to submit their like credit report to yes wow yes of course an 850 is considered perfect and like very few people get in at that point but yeah you have to have at least a 675 um so score here's there's more to it than this and i think it's worth talking about there's a little there know what they're doing with that of course like yeah all right it's a dating window but we don're doing with that of course like yeah all right it's a dating app can you window but we don't have to talk about that it is all right score is the creation of another company they're called the neon money club it's a company black owned and

they partnered with american express to create not only this app but this is maybe the other part that's worth talking about it's its own credit card it's called of course the cream card oh now i'm a little completely i got questions that's a wu-tang reference ken it is cream get the money dollar dollar this is why i don't know and i didn't get it i'm not a big wu-tang clan i need to i need to get caught i need to go back and refresh myself on the Wu-Tang. Yeah. I mean, when I look at you, you scream somebody who would know all the Wu-Tang songs. Yeah.

Anyway. You're right. This card. It's called Cream? It's called the Cream Card, and it lets cardholders. I like cream corn. Invest in the stock market using the points they earn. So it's a game.

They are now setting you up. It's under the guise of responsible dating all to get a credit card. Am I drawing the lines correctly? What I'm thinking is happening here is we're all people who want to build our credit. And so I'm going to find somebody on the Score app, and I'm going to take them to dinner, and I'm going to use my cream card to buy us filet mignon and Dom Perignon. And it's okay if I spend more than I can afford because I can take the points and invest them in the stocks. I have so many thoughts that I feel like James Childs,

our fearless producer, sitting on my shoulder right now saying, careful. I have many thoughts about this. It's not good. I'm'm gonna go to a restaurant with my my score date and drop my cream card on the table and she's gonna go oh la la like he has the card i don't know man this is all it this is garbage this is a game so let me say this you tell me wrong feels like we're in the matrix again they are gaming people literally it's just terrible i'm like wait a minute so you're gonna spend more money let's just put this in like it's just appealing only to the african american community i hope it's not appealing to any community i mean don't get me wrong i think

that i know you don't but i'm saying this feels like this is a this is a this is a real play well let's real talk for a minute ken what i think about stuff like this is just jade talking what i truly think about um situations like this is i think that at their core they think they're helping people and they want to help people and they're thinking the way they think the way we help people is to help them build their credit score because if people can have access to credit they can have access to more that's what a lot of people believe whereas here like our rhetoric on that is completely different obviously and i think that they do believe if we can offer this to people we're doing them a service and i i don't i think these are slimy

credit card people because the whole point of the app is to lead you up the ladder to the credit card i'm just telling you but think about it i don't know what the point system is dating they don't care about marriage but they're thinking we're going to bring couples together who are like-minded who are going on a financial journey together who are going to build their empire together right and i'm like you can't do that based on credit and debt because think about it 100. A hundred percent. If you say, all right, in a normal life, if I was spending cash,

I'd spend a hundred dollars. Right. But if you're like, listen, you don't get any points until you spend 150. Then you spend $50 more. And then you're like, okay,

great. I spent $50 more. And now I got 30 cream points and I can invest that $30. I'm like, what are you doing? This is a sign of the apocalypse when we're trying to get cream points. We've now, it's like society is done.

All right, now I got an idea. I just got an idea right now. What if we have a program that is, it's a dating app and it only allows people in that are debt-free? Listen, that would be the app for me. No debit card, no credit card. It's just, you know what?

You want to find people who are like-minded with you with money? Money problems is one of the biggest causes of divorce. We need a dating app. You and George need to get on that, and it's only for people who are debt-free and you have zero credit score because you have no debt. Now, this would change society. It would change society.

I have some real thoughts I can't share. I feel like you're narrowing the pool a lot. Yeah. You want to narrow the pool to find the right person. Small pool for the long game. Yes, but in many ways, love goggles can be very helpful. Yes, love goggles. Like when you meet someone.

I'm lost right now. I'm going to get you. I'm lost right now. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm going to get you where I'm going. Okay. When I met Sam Warshaw, I didn't know how much debt he had, but I'm like, this guy's a snack.

So I'm like, let's go forward. And by the time I found out how much debt he had, my love goggles didn't care. So he wouldn't have got into the app and maybe instead I would have been matched with some poindexter who's

maybe not as good looking. I'm being a little altruistic, but I'm just saying, you want to be around people, you know, that you want to have no money problems, you want to find girls, you want to find guys that got no debt. It's just an app idea. This whole segment's hysterical. What do you think, America?

All I know is I'm looking at Sam Warshaw in the lobby right now, and all I can see is a piece of celery. No, no, no, no, no. A carrot? A protein bar? A bag of chips? No, a filet mignon. Well, that's a snack.

That's an entree. My world, what kind of world do you live in where a filet is a snack? What are you, The Rock? I don't know. That's what The Rock eats. A chocolate-covered strawberry, Ken. Oh, my gosh. Stay away from the app and the credit cards and everything.

Oh, my gosh. I feel like I learned so much, and yet I'm not better for it. Well, now you know Wu-Tang Clan, so there you go. I do need to search the old tube, the YouTube, for some Wu-Tang videos. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, and Jade Warshaw joins me this hour,

888-825-5225. Joaquin is going to start us off in Phoenix. Joaquin, how can we help? Hi, I was getting a call. I had a question. Me and my wife are going back and forth. I'll give you a little background. I have like four properties, I guess, that are all paid off,

and we bought this one property to build a house on. My wife wants me to get a loan and finish building the house just because we've had some problems with hiring and doing it a little bit at a time. We've been saving the money and doing that. So that's why I called in to see what you guys think about it. So real quick, are you living in some other house, or are you living in a part of this house? Because I heard you say four.

Okay. No, I have a house that I live in right now are you that's paid i have like two other rental properties and then we bought this other property okay i heard properties and i wasn't sure if we were talking dirt or or homes so are there homes on all these properties no no yeah i have three homes and one property well i have an old beat-up home on it i'm gonna tear down i'm building that gotcha And you're in the process of building another house right now? Yes, on that property, yes, sir.

How much do you have left? Oh, I just started building the shop. Oh, okay. Like I said, the house I live in now is 20 years old, so my wife wants me to put some money into this house,

and I want to sell this house and just use that money to build a house. Okay. Well, let's get some real numbers here. So what's it going to cost you? So eventually you guys are going to move out of this house, and you're going to build something on this land or whatever it is that you own, right? So what do you think it's going to cost to do that? I'm looking about $400. $400, okay.

And how much cash do you have saved? I got about $150 in the bank, I guess I can say this. And is that aside from three to six months of emergency fund, or is that including? Yeah, well, because I have, no, that's aside, because I have like $20,000 I saved of emergency fund or is that including yeah well because i had no that's the side because i have like 20 000 i saved for emergency fund so we've got 20 000 aside for emergency fund and then you've got this 150 correct two separate pots yes okay um how can i i'm sorry i'm asking you a bunch of questions but i want to get the lay of the land how much

income do you and your month do you and your wife bring home per month combined uh it's 100 about 120 and it ranges goes a little higher sometimes but 120 that's about that okay so my suggestion here i'm going to give you a couple of different options um for your emergency fund i'd probably like to see it beefed up a little bit more simply because you're about to move into a brand new house or you kind of live in a rental now that needs work I just feel like having a little more than twenty thousand dollars might be helpful so whether it's you just stacking that cash up or you moving some over from the 150,000 that you have piled up um then my next question is if I if I were you

you know I look at this situation and I'm thinking you've done a lot of things right. You've got paid off real estate, but my personal residence, I don't want to have a bunch of paid off real estate over here that a bunch of other people are living in, but my own personal residence has a mortgage on it. Like I want to make sure the house that, you know what I'm saying? Even now don't have a mortgage. Right. But when you go, when you go to move into this new house that you build, you want to lay your head down on the pillow and know there's no mortgage there. So I would consider I don't know what these other three properties are worth, but what would it take to find to pull together another, you know, three hundred thousand dollars to make this happen debt free? Well, that's the thing. I wanted to do that, but then, well, I keep building it up,

and I mean, I don't do it as we go, but my house in the now needs work, so I need to put, like, another $20,000, $30,000 into this house. In order to even sell it? No, I would sell for $500 right now, which it is, but I wanted to fix it up a little bit. If you know that you're going to sell it, I wouldn't put the money into selling it if you know that you're going to still pull five five hundred

from it okay but then my wife because i want i told her let's move to the other property and live in our motor home and then sell this house and have the money to build that thing but my wife don't want to live in the motor home up on the other property until we how long would it be live in this house live in this house well another story i got two girls that are still in high school so i gotta wait for them to get out of high school so i got about three years so when is the time what's the what's the realistic timeline on this if they're out of high school in three years um let's put some real numbers down because i'm thinking okay number one the house is not on fire. So this is not even a thing. It sounds like until three years from now.

So the things that you were talking about, the things your wife doesn't want to live in a motor home and that's understandable. So we're definitely not going to have her live in a motor. I'm sorry. So you want to live in a motor home with two teenage girls right exactly nobody does no one wants to do that so we're not pulling the trigger on that at all right now so realistically your timeline is in in three years unless you said okay we're going to sell this house we're going to sell the motor home and we're going to i don't know do something short term but i really what i think the strategy is no matter how you get to it is your when it's time for you to build on this other piece of land that you have you're going to do it in cash that's

that's thing one and if you put that on the paper first and circle it with exclamation points then everything else is a derivative of that it's like okay we're doing this in cash so what does that have to mean in order for that to take place? Well, we're going to have to sell one of these three properties. So you said that one of them you live in, one of them is, tell me about the three properties. So is it possible that you rent, is it possible that instead of you guys living in the motor home when this time comes that you coincide it to where with one of your renters they're out and you're into that property until your home is finished and then when your new home is finished you move into the home and then you bring new renters back into that other house and so now at the end of the day you're left with one rental property with renters

you're in your home that's completely debt free and i don't know what the motor home situation is but i'm selling it because it's going down in value. Well, I mean, I don't want to sell it. I use it for going out in it. I don't want to sell my motorhome. What's your household income? You said $100,000? $120,000?

And what's the motorhome worth? It's probably worth $25,000. So it's not worth a lot. Listen, at the end of the day, here's the math I want you to do. If you calculate that with all the other vehicles you have, if it's more than half of your income, your yearly income, you need to get rid of something. Because that's too much. You're not,

you don't have enough of a, it's too much stuff going down in value at the end of the day. Joaquin, you called to ask us, should you finance building a new house because your wife wants the house? The answer is no. And I've listened to you guys forever, and I know you guys are going to say no, but that's why I wanted her to hear about it. Right.

But we've walked through everything. This is really simple. You're going to do what you want to do with the motorhome. I agree with Jay completely. But bottom line is you don't need to finance, so don't finance. You have the properties to be able to do with the motorhome. I agree with Jade completely, but bottom line is you don't need to finance, so don't finance. You have the properties to be able to do this. And with the kids and school and everything, Jade walked you through the timeline. This is pretty simple. I mean, it's time to move on. You either decide that you're going to do debt or you decide not to do debt. You know what our position is. It's that simple. But if I was in your situation,

I'm moving those properties so that i build the house that i really want that my wife wants cash and the good news is if he wants to get started on the sooner all he has to do is look and go okay like the other the other rental house when's their lease up because as soon as their lease is up you guys can move in there and get started yeah sooner than three years from now so he's got options. It's his wife he's going to have to get on board. Oh, yeah. And he is not wanting to part with that mobile home. I feel that. Do you?

Look, that's the least of his concerns. I agree. He can do everything we told him to do and still keep the mobile home. But when you've got opportunities like that, it just makes so much more sense. Fascinating. So you have been, how long have you been co-hosting on the show? Ooh, since September, no, since December of 22. All right. I've never asked any of my co-hosts this, so I'm fascinated with this.

I'm ready, Ken. What is your take, having sat in a seat enough now, on why a guy like him, I'm not knocking on him, why does Joaquin know exactly what we're going to say, but he still calls in anyway? He and his wife are not on the same page. And so when he goes in to talk to her about this, he feels like he's speaking another language. But when he calls us, now suddenly we're all talking the same language and he realizes he's not crazy.

That's what I think. And then he gets a little bit of confidence, a little bit of language. Yeah, it's like, okay, I'm not totally crazy. Okay, now I can stand on business a little bit more when I go talk to my wife. That's what I think. I concur. I concur. I can't add anything to it.

I've never asked one of my co-hosts. And you know what? Instead of pontificating myself, I thought, I want to see what Jade says. That's a good word, Ken. It's a word you can use this week. No one will know what it means, but you great don't move this is the ramsey show welcome back to the ramsey show i'm ken coleman jade warshaw is with me triple eight eight two five five two two five answering your calls let's go to st louis, Missouri area, and that's where John joins us. John, how can we help?

Hi, John. So me and my girlfriend, we are recently pregnant. I'm Ken, you're John. Oh, my bad. No worries. It happens all the time, Ken. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't confused. I'm so flustered. I'm so amazed that you guys picked up my phone call.

You're doing great, John. So me and my girlfriend, we are girlfriend, we found out we're pregnant. We've been together about six months. I've got some debt. She's actually debt-free, thankfully, but I've got some debt, some dead weight on my end that's dragging, and I've yet to check out paternity leave and all the benefits that I have. I checked out my handbook, and it says to check in with HR, which I have yet to do.

There's nothing stipulated in the handbook. So I'm really wanting to take off three months, but you know, that's one of the baby steps. So I would be having to put that ahead of, you know, baby step number one. So should I go ahead and do that if they give me the, if they don't give me the parental leave or should I work as or focus on getting my emergency fund, doing the baby steps in order? Well, I'm going to tell you right now, if they don't give me the parental leave or should I work as or focus on getting my emergency fund doing the baby steps in order well I'm going to tell you right now if they don't give you paid three months is that what you're asking yeah if they don't give you the paid paternity leave no you're not taking time off you're working you're in debt you're broke yeah jade uh well I'm just I'm just not sure what like you know my girlfriend she says like she feels like i need to be there for her i mean i'm in bed yeah but you can be there for her

if you get paid but if you do not get paid for three months um i i think you're really struggling financially even scrap that money together and i still wouldn't do it because i think you need to be getting out of debt the best thing you can do to be there for her and this baby is to keep making money and keep paying off debt period end of story now that's my take at the very least um and I have some views on this but at the very least one thing you could do is take some vacation take your vacation time and take a week if you have paid vacation. Great idea. Because I do think that she's going to need support. As much support as she can get. But if you can give her that week after she gets home from the hospital, that is so, so much. That's good. But this points to a bigger

conversation. Bigger conversation. But John, I would also add to what Jade said. I think taking the vacation, that's smart. Use your vacation time to be there for her. But you guys are young and I've done this three times. So I just want to say from experience, you can be there for her while you're working too. What that means is, hold on a second, I'm not finished. I hadn't landed the plane. You got to let me land it before you. I'm saying he can be there for her. He takes the vacation time that you're recommending, but he can work and still go home and take the midnight, the 4 a.m., bust his tail. He can be there for her and work full time.

Listen, John, you might need to go. Ken and I might need to have a little taxi here. We can have a taxi, but John, am I making sense to you? You're like, because you're working doesn't mean you're not there for her. You're going to have to have some sleepless nights. Take the feedings. Give her some time. There's no such thing as taking the feedings in the beginning, beginning, Ken.

That's not true. I mean, depending on how you're feeding the baby. Thank you. But you just made a blanket statement. My wife did not breastfeed. So guess who helped? That's true. That is true.

I'm just saying but you also made the blanket statement of like he could still support her i'm like it depends on the situation no no no he can support her after he gets off work by coming in taking bath time doing a lot of stuff how about some laundry i did all this stuff listen you're acting like he can't support her i'm not saying he gets home i'm not saying he can't but i do think that and in his situation i let me be clear in john's situation he's got debt they're they're not married like there's a lot going on here i think if he takes his seven days of vacation i love it there for her that week that's great but in a grand scheme of things the ideal situation is you've got three to six months saved we always tell people to go

into stork mode when a baby's coming that's right you're stacking up money because if you can't take this is jade's opinion if you can't take paternity leave you've got to stack up some money because i i'm just telling you and i know plenty of women doing it that did it but because my husband worked from home he was home when i had my kids but kids. But I can't imagine not having help for the first two to four weeks with a newborn. Especially if you had like a cesarean. Like, come on now, Ken. Okay, listen. I get it.

But help doesn't only exist in the form of your stay-at-home husband. I get it. I get it. But I'm saying you have the option. You get it. I'm saying it's a great option if he has it. John, speak. Excuse me, can I interject here?

Of course. This is your call. Just to give you guys a little bit of background. So like I said, in terms of like what we do, we both work in a factory and we both work second shift. So she works 2 to 10 and I work 3 to 11. So we're going to have to figure out something about that, first of all, with the baby and daycare. That's going to be something we're going to have to work around. And my debts are in the form of a $4,500 loan that I have to a bank. It's an auto loan. And that's a $191 payment a month that I could free up. That's the biggest one I have.

And then a debt to the state I owe through some legal fees and things like that. How much is that? That's, I think, $1,500 or maybe $1,400 after I paid a little bit on it. Okay. When do you guys get married? I'm planning. I'm pushing that out until I get debt-free,

to be honest. Here's what I think. I'm going to tell you my opinion and you can do what you want with it. I think for free, to be honest. Here's what I think. I'm going to tell you my opinion and you can do what you want with it. I think for you guys to have... We could get eloped. Yeah. Honestly, in order for you to do the things

that I think you feel you want to do and need to do, I think you need to do it under the cover of marriage. And so if I'm you, I'm going to the courthouse and I'm getting the certificate. That way you can financially be there for her and in a way that you're both protected and I think that's really really important that you do this um in that way so that it's like okay now we're working together we're paying off this debt it's our plan and you guys are no longer individual singles you're we

and it makes it just makes moving forward a lot easier. And it sounds like you were going to marry her anyway. So in no way am I saying you should marry her just because you had a baby, even though you don't even like her that much. I'm not saying that. It sounds like y'all were on that path anyway. So am I right? Yes, for sure.

Can you pay off this debt, John, before baby arrives? Even in storm mode? I don't think that's possible. I don't think it is. I think two years, maybe. Okay. So despite Jay and I's difference of opinion on what the husband's role is, here's the deal. Let me make it clear. If your company says, yeah, we have a three-month deal and we're going to pay you, then take it. But I'm just telling you, I'm taking the extremely conservative approach and it's all about money and you providing. And I don't apologize for that at all. If you don't

get the three months paid, tough. Life is tough. The kid's going to be fine. She's going to be fine. We'll find a way. And you can be there for her and you should be there for her after you've busted your butt all day long. I did it. But that loss of income is not worth it. No. No. No. In this case, I definitely don't think so.

I think you're better suited to keep working. But like I said, take the resources you have and try to help her out. But Ken. John, are you good? Before Jade takes off on me here, I feel you good. There's one more thing I need to get squared. All right. We got about a minute and a half. Yeah. In regards to that loan, it's on two vehicles and both of them are totaled out. One of them is totaled out because I got in a wreck and I did not have insurance, unfortunately. And the other one, it just needs head gasket

replaced. And I'm not sure if I want to replace it because it's just a lemon, to be honest. But the total is $4,500? Yeah, it's just I pay quite a bit off on both the cars. One of them was a nitric car. What's your question? What can I do in order to alleviate those debts? Work for jobs. Work for jobs.

You got to pay it off. You have no life right now. None. None. Yeah. I mean, the only thing you could do is maybe take it to a scrapyard and see if they'd give you anything for the metal. You could try working it out with the bank, but that's a Hail Mary. We got to have another plan.

I mean, he said they're totally scrapped. They're totally totaled. I know. He said, could he work it out with the bank? I go, I'm always going to leave the opportunity open. Probably not going to work. The point is, you got to pay it off. You have no life.

She's pregnant anyway. They won't release a title to me the opportunity open. Probably not going to work. The point is, you've got to pay it off. You have no life. She's pregnant anyway. They won't release a title to me to sell it. They're like, you make this amount on the sale, or we won't release a title. You've still got to pay it off. But they're totaled vehicles. Who are you selling them to? Well, I'd part them out. That's an option. But he still has to pay it off before

he can scrap it out. You guys can take all the money for it. Your only choice here is to work. You gotta work it off. It's $4,500. You're working like a crazy man for a lot of reasons here coming up. You got a baby and you got debt you have to pay off. There's no easy equation out of this.

Thanks for the call, John. You just gotta work really, really hard. Congratulations. You got out easy this time, Ken, but I had my argument set and ready for that paternity. We're going to reset that because I'm right. What? I don't mind proving it. This is The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life. Winning in your money, winning in your work, and winning in your relationships is the goal. And we can help you. 888-825-5225. Jade Warshaw joins me this hour. I'm Ken Coleman.

The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Rosalie is on the line in San Antonio. Rosalie, how can we help? Hi, guys. So I'm having a little bit of buyer's remorse with our house. We sold our first home last year, and then we bought a new home this time last year as well.

And I just feel like it's just way too much money and I'm having a little bit of remorse here. Oh, what happened? Walk us through the numbers. Okay. So we bought it our first time in 2017 and we made $100,000 in equity. Okay.

And then I paid off my school loans and we paid $100,000 in equity. Okay. And then I paid off my school loans and we paid off our vehicles. And so we were debt-free except for our mortgage. Okay. We bought about a $500,000 home. Okay. And we make about $10,000 every month. That's what we're bringing home.

Okay. How much is your mortgage payment? $4,000. Okay. Yeah. dollars every month that's what we're bringing home okay well how much is your mortgage payment four thousand okay yeah that's why you're feeling that you're about forty percent of your income um and we would suggest that you be somewhere around twenty five percent so that's that's why you're feeling it. Yes. Tell me more. So it was, we fell in love. Our real estate agent was awesome. We just qualified and qualified and qualified and got over our head and just got swept away with the moment. Yeah, because they'll say you're good up to 50% usually.

Yeah. And then they're like, oh, your credit score is so good. You can get more and more and more. I was oh my gosh oh that listen the lesson that you just learned is a lesson that so many people need to learn because i can tell you coming here when sam and i put an offer on a house they were willing to approve us up to 50 of our income gladly gladly and they're like oh we'll make the approval letter for this much and i'm like no that's good you can just make it for the for the amount that we want so remember guys anybody listening advocate for yourself because they want you to spend spend spend because they get paid off that so just stick to your guns um all right so you're in at four thousand dollars a month

are you both you and your husband working yes Yes, I'm a virtual teacher. And then he owns a body shop with his dad. So we're both working. And are you working 40 hours a week? Are you both working 40 hours plus a week? Yes. Okay. Yes, and we've got two little ones.

I've got a three-month-old that stays home with me. And then I have a three-year-old who goes to daycare. Okay. How much to daycare. Okay. How much is daycare? It's not bad for our area. You say as you chuckle when I asked you that question. What was the chuckle about? Yes.

Well, I mean, that's average. How much was it? $150 a week. Oh, yeah. All right. That's average. How much was it? $150 a week. Oh, yeah. All right. That's not bad. I was just curious. Yeah, it's just an expense.

Because I've debated pulling him out and trying to work. Because I'm a virtual teacher, so I can work from home. But I've got a three-month-old and then a three-year-old. It's just a little bit crazy. What was your interest rate um i think it was right around like six percent yeah yeah and this is a 30 year i'm guessing yeah girlfriend all right so the choices are not many um your choices are which by the way let me just ask what's the house worth now it's still sitting the same it's 500 like you didn't buy it too high yeah we have 47 to like

pay it off and i want to sell but i don't want to pay capital gains back. Yes, that's what I'm kind of getting at. Right. Well, let's look at this logically. All right. You're in at 40%. Now, the question is, do you see a pathway where you and your husband can close that gap and knock it down 20% points to get it where it needs to be? With income. To. With income?

To increase our income? Yeah. Can you find a way to increase your income by 15% is basically what I'm asking you. I feel like we're kind of maxed out with a three-year-old and a three-month-old. Like we're definitely busy. And so that's the reality of the situation if you can't see a clear path to increasing your income 15 so you're closing this gap and then it's sitting at 25 25 28 even 30 right where right where it's a lot more comfortable then you do need to consider some situations going forward. Now, let's look at this capital gains thing with real numbers. Okay, let's say that you bought it for 500. Let's say you sold it for 540.

So that's a gain of 40%. And your capital gains rate is based on your income bracket. So based on where your income is, I think in your case, you're probably going to be at the 15%. You know, you're either going to pay 15 or 20, I believe, if I'm saying that correctly, but 15% of 40,000. I would sell. I'd take the hit. I was curious what other options you were going to give. Take the $4,500 hit because I think we hear capital gains and we're like, oh my gosh. And you're like thinking that it's going to make you go bankrupt. But when you really draw the numbers, it's not like you had a gain of $300,000 on this property.

So let's just look at the psychological side of the money. So I think Jade's right. I think that's the option. If you can't increase your income, if he can't do body work on the side on the weekend, you're going to be stressed out every month as opposed to a little stressed out for a couple months to pay that tax bill. Yeah, because when did they move in? When did you move in?

March of last year. So it's been a year? I'd take the hit. I'd take the hit. You get out without very little stress at all. And you guys just learn from this and move on. If you literally can't increase your income, then I think that's your only viable option. I would not bite the bullet and be really stressed out.

For over a year? With kids? Yeah. Because I was thinking of just staying here another year and just like, you know, keeping it real tight with the budget. How tight is it? You know what? Are you able to make it work?

Yes. Without credit cards? Yes. Then I would work for a year if you can make it work for a year then stay if you can't put food on the table you got to get out yeah okay yeah no we're not we're not doing credit cards um my husband could he likes his toys so he could we have a third vehicle we've got a truck probably worth about fifteen thousand dollars and i think we could he's not gonna like me he ain't gonna like me but if i had been one half of this bad decision i would then be going all right i'm gonna start selling

stuff and we're gonna stack some cash well yeah because you're gonna sell that truck because the time is gonna come for you guys to move and you want to know what you're going to need moving truck boxes tape all that stuff that costs and that truck is going to come in real handy to pay for all that and he's a very talented guy doing body work i'd like to challenge him to work a couple saturdays i know you need him at home i'm gonna get yelled at by jade on saturdays but if i was this tight i want to go find some margin and i'm gonna go work yes ken men should work i'm not gonna leave you stranded but i gotta go make some money this is the ramsey show welcome back to the ramsey show i'm ken cole Coleman. Jade Warshaw is with me this hour, 888-825-5225. Hey, folks, this is a breaking news item here.

Fresh off the presses. The Money and Marriage Getaway is back. This has been a really popular event with Dr. John Delaney and Rachel Cruz. The new dates are for our fall season, October 24 through 26. It's a weekend getaway for you and yours. And right here in Nashville, Tennessee, on our campus, two and a half days of teaching focused on communication, intimacy, and money. A lot of Q&A for you to get real answers to your real questions

about money and your marriage. You and your spouse are going to come away with tools to get better. I think you're going to be better. Wonderful, wonderful weekend. Platinum tickets already sold out. Few VIP left. That includes a meet and greet with John and Rachel. Get them before they go.

Tickets are $799. That's where they start. You can get them by going to ramseysolutions.com slash events. Visit ramseysolutions.com slash events. All right, time for the Ramsey Show question of the day brought to you by our friends at Neighborly, your hub for home services. Winter is the perfect time to freshen up your home's interior with a new coat of paint. Five-star painting can paint your walls and doors, even those difficult cabinets and trim. Find a locally owned five-star painting near you at neighborly.com slash Ramsey. Love it.

Today's question comes from Melissa in Iowa. She says, I'm at a new job making almost double the hourly pay for my last job. My old job was my ultimate goal, but we moved for my husband's career. Even though I'm making great money, I am completely unhappy at this new job. I miss my old job and coworkers, but my pay is so much better here. I've only been here for three months, but I'm not sure how long to keep going at it before I go looking for something like my old career, where I know that I'll make less money again. How long should I stick it out before finding something more fulfilling like my previous job? For context,

we are debt-free and saving for a down payment for a home. All right, so let's get some layers to it. This is funny because if Dave were here, he'd have a very different response than me. You think? Oh yeah, he's very anti-going backward on anything in salary as it relates to meaning. It kind of irritates you. You're like, well, you can find the meaning in the money, and many times you can, but not always. All right, so here's my take on this. I think I meet you both in the middle. Yeah.

My take on this is you're not going to be able to continue to do this much longer mentally and emotionally for the way you laid it out. Yeah. You love the old work. This is just a J-O-B for you. There's no juice or passion in it. And so for that reason, I don't think it's long before you start to look. I think you could make the case though, that I would stick it out long enough to get that house down payment. There you go. I like that. And so that's, I'm reasonable on it to say,

all right, sometimes we do what we have to do so that, watch this, we can do what we want to do. Boom. It's one of the great lines from the movie, The Great Debaters, Forrest Whitaker's the father in that. And he tells his son that one night. He's, you know, the son's always wanting to be on the debate practice. And he says, he's neglecting his studies. And he says, son, you do what you have to do so that later you can do what you want to do. And I think in this case, I would stick it out the way that you can do this, because I do not want to minimize the realities, folks, of burnout on the job. When you have no connection to your work, you will burn out fast. And I want to call that out because millions of people are listening and watching us right now going, uh-huh, that's me.

So how does she do it? She says every day, I'm grateful for this job that pays a lot better than my old job that I loved because this is going to help me buy a house that I love. Yeah, I like that. Now, when we get the down payment, Jade, now I'm shifting and I'm going, I'm debt free. I've done a good job on my home. Yes. And I have the margin to make less because it was never about making more in the previous career.

Yeah, that's right. She only left it because of the move for her hubs. Yeah. So in this case, I don't even consider it a I'm taking a pay cut. No, you're going to do the thing that you know you love to do. Yes. That's so important. And I think people do need to hear that.

There is a time and a space where you do a job. I talked about this a while back with Rachel. You do a job to get to where you want to go and there is very good reason to do any job until you are able to do the job and in this case love that there is a down payment that you're hoping for and i think a house is a pretty dang good reason to keep keep chugging away let's make double the income come on this is a version of paying your dues yeah right yeah I mean I I think about doing work that I did not want to do Sam and I traveled for oh a decade and sometimes we'd be gone Ken 35 weeks out of the year it's exhausting and people think it's glamorous

oh you're going to Turkey oh you're going to Australia I'm like girl I'm tired you didn't even know where you were I didn't even know where I was. And I, we were at the point where we had already paid off our debt and I was ready to stop traveling. And, but I was like, you know what, if we do this a little bit longer, we can save for this down payment. Love, same exact situation. You know, love the question. And so that's my take on that. But I will tell you, once you do what you have to do, there comes a point in life where you better do what you want to do or you will get to the end of your journey and look back and regret. That is true. One of the top five regrets of the dying, according to a bestselling book out of Australia written by a hospice nurse, was I did not live the life that I truly wanted to live.

That's sad. And it's that important. And so, and we at Ramsey can teach you how to be a millionaire on a teacher salary. The third largest group of net worth millionaires, based on our unprecedented study of net worth millionaires that we did at Ramsey Solutions, the third largest group of net worth millionaires are teachers. The median pay in the United States for teachers right now is about $63,000, $64,000, some of the latest stuff I've seen. And so the point is you can do it. It's where you make enough. And so great question. Love that. And I loved your anecdote and you guys did it. You actually walked it.

But I think to your point, what you were just saying, Ken, there's something really important about that, that I do want to highlight, which is one of the things I love most about the baby steps is when you do baby step two, I think something that we just forget about when we're paying off debt, we're so focused on I got to earn more money so I can pay off more debt so I can earn more money. So like we're just trying to get out of that. And you really don't. And probably before you got into the baby steps, you were just in that paycheck to paycheck wheel and you never get the chance to stop and think, if life were different, what would I be doing? If money wasn't this tight,

what's really the career I'd enjoy doing? And so one of the benefits of becoming debt-free is you declutter your mind enough to have the, it's a privilege to be able to sit and think, what would I like to do? What's a career that be able to sit and think what would i like to do what's a career that in your words gives me the juice like that is such it's it's very important and a lot of people don't even take the time i was talking to an adult in my life um and i said well if you could do whatever you wanted to do what would it be and? And they said, I don't know. I've never even thought, I've never had the ability to think of that.

Isn't that tragic? It's tragic. I don't know. I've just, you know, I've done what I have to do. And I'm like, oh man, like we got to get past that. I love that you said that because Dave made this line famous, live like no one else, baby step one, two, three, right? And even the full, the full, the full step, the full process.

But the backside of that phrase is live like no one else so later you can live. And then he added give like no one else. But let's just look at the live like no one else. It's exactly what you just talked about. When you get to that point, you can decide whatever the crap you want to do. There's real freedom here, not just financial freedom, but financial freedom gives birth to so much more freedom that's right i can live where i want to live yeah travel to where i want to travel you

start to fill in the blank i want to and you start to see what's truly important to you you start to realize maybe you're not a person who really is motivated by money maybe you're more motivated by being able to serve maybe you're more motivated by being able to being able to create something but because our debt is has made us it debt makes everybody money motivated and so you lose track with who you are which is very interesting uh i want to call that out folks that was a little bit of a bomb right there debt makes everybody money motivated hey that's pretty good that's the name of my next you don't get to choose by the way it's It's like, you're so obsessed with money. I don't have a choice. I don't have a choice to be. That's a really great point. And yet the opposite is sold to us in culture.

Yes. We're sold debt as freedom to live however you want. Right? That's right. But you're actually right. Jade Warshaw, folks, write it down, put it out on social media. I think that was absolutely great. Ooh, man. Think about that for a little bit. I feel like the line from Lion King. Ah, see what not. Not that one. No.

It's where the one lion says Mufasa's name in front of the hyenas, and one of them goes, ooh, say it again. Mufasa. Yeah. That's it. That line? Yeah. That line had a little Mufasa on it.

Ooh. Ooh, say it again. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America. You have joined The Ramsey Show, where we talk with you about you, specifically your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Let's go down to Daytona Beach, Florida, the home of the Daytona 500, the great American race. Alan is there. Alan, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Thanks for having me on. You bet. What's up? I'm looking for some career advice um i am graduating chiropractic school in march um and i've been getting some offers and um i got my first offer so i want to kind of run it by you guys and see what you think love it walk us through it what's the offer yeah so this it's a salary position of 60k and then there is a monthly bonus of 8% of collections based on collections above $45,000 a month.

So when I'm in this negotiation stage, what do you guys recommend I should focus on? Should it be the bonus structure? Should it be the salary? What do you guys think? I'd like to know more about the bonus. When they walk through this, or did they walk through what the averages are on how many times they're over the $45,000? Because if I understood this right, you don't get 8% unless they hit over $45,000 in billing. Right, right. Did you ask them? um i did not ask them but just from i i'm precepting our internship uh doing my internship there okay and just from like gauging it's a growing office

i want to say they want to make they make about 30k um every month and with me coming on they kind of assume or hope that they're able to grow the practice even more. So this is kind of new. Yeah, but see, you're assuming. I don't like assuming. And I want to get in and go, okay, let's talk real numbers. So when I come on board, how many patients do you expect for me to see? What do you think is realistic? And I start, you know, I just walk

through that. Just have them walk out and say, hey, I just want to make sure I understand the bonus thing. How can I play into it? Because that's the other thing I'm wondering. Are they wanting you kind of spreading the word a little bit? Because here's the deal. I don't know what a starting salary is. So to be fair, what I would do is I'd be looking in your area, and I'd be looking at what starting salaries are for chiropractors right out of school. And I'd want to see on that offer of $60,000, just the base alone, is that low, medium, or high? So I'd get educated on that. That's exactly where I'd start.

Then I'd get the explanation on the bonus. And if I can figure that out and go, go okay what are the possibilities that we hit that and uh well that could be interesting glass door says between 63 and 110 per year in the state of florida starting out yeah and indeed also says between 67 and 110 so i wonder if they're trying to fill that gap uh do the math for me do Give me 8% of, let's go conservative, of 45,000. I know roughly what that is. It's 450 times 8, basically. Yeah, I got it.

Right? So it's going to be somewhere in the four grand range. Is that right, Alan? Am I saying that right? Well, it would be anything over 45. Yeah, he doesn't get the 45. It's whatever's over. So if you get, let's say you earn 48,000.

You get 8% of 3,000. That's nothing. Oh, I apologize. Yeah, so based on what Jade found, even with the bonus, and let's say you hit that, tell me if I'm starting to be too conservative, maybe six months out of the year, and let's say that the average is 3,000 over using these numbers. Okay.

Right? So three times, that's 16,000, and you're getting 8% of that. So, yeah, it's really on the low end, feels like to me. Yeah, yeah. Now, let's not just take, I mean, Jade's got it. I'm looking at it. But let's not just take, I mean, Jade's got it. I'm looking at it. But let's not just take those numbers on the internet at face value. Let's go dig in a little bit.

And because it's your first offer, I'd like to see you be getting a little bit higher offer than that. On that bonus, conservatively, you're looking at maybe three to four grand. Right. Above and beyond the 60. So how do you feel about that? It's your life. I feel like I'm in the position to really help the practice grow just from like my expertise and what I'm passionate about. And I feel I can add and market myself and market the practice

even more, and especially in the area. There's just an untapped population that they haven't gotten to yet. So I'm asking you, do you think that's a good offer? I mean, I have a lot of debt, so it's a lot of student loan debt, so it's a little tough for me to swallow that $60,000. What's keeping you in Daytona, can I ask that? Because I'm looking here, and I'm looking at the highest-paying cities for chiropractors in Florida, and I'm seeing that Pensacola cities for chiropractors in Florida and I'm seeing that Pensacola is $96,000 a year or Jacksonville so I'm wondering if you're tied to Daytona great suggestion Alan you called to say what should I do I certainly wouldn't I'd get

try to get a few more offers and I love what Jay just said I'd start going where can I go yeah especially with the debt that's kind of motive that's what's motivating this is to get a few more offers. And I love what Jade just said. I start going, where can I go? Yeah, especially with the debt. That's what's motivating this is, how can we get more? I'm afraid to ask. How much debt do you have? It's $238,000.

Where are the Tums? It's brutal. It's brutal. Now I'm really on Team Jade. I'm looking anywhere in the country. Yes. Because I got to get a big shovel, which is your income, and dig out of this $200,000 as fast as possible, my man.

What I do like about what I see here is the top paying positions are in North Florida, which is far less expensive than South Florida right now. South Florida is crazy. So you increase your income, you're increasing your cost of living. So it's a wash. But I feel like in North Florida, it'd be worth it for you, or even going out of state to a, you know, I would definitely search is all I'm saying, because $238,000 of student loans, she ain't going away. That's not a bill.

That's a William. If the highest paid offer i could get was in the middle of wyoming i'd go i know nothing against wyoming please don't send hate mail i don't read it but but i'm going i don't care how cold it is it could be 200 below zero alan i would get the biggest shovel possible to get because listen you can be a chiropractor anywhere you want to to our last segment talking about freedom jade yeah that's right i i'd be shopping myself young man yeah yeah yeah i understand thanks guys yeah i really appreciate the call i woof jade this is this is why we tell people don't go into debt no i'm just mad that you missed my joke say it it again. I said that he has $238,000

of debt. I said, that's not a bill. That's a William. Nice. I apologize. I apologize. I was still reeling. It's a lot. It's a lot. I was reeling from his reality. And this is what we talk about. You know, I think so many people go into college, their professors, their guidance counselors, their family members are telling them, hey, careers like these will ROI, you know, and you kind of feel like that it's this given that, OK, like I can take out this debt and if I get my job, it'll just pay for itself. And the thing that we have to tell ourselves is nothing pays for itself. Like you have to go out and work and pay for it. Like they don't, you don't just get the job and them hand you back all the money that you paid on your student loans. You have to go to work and clock in actual hours to make it pay for itself. And that's not fun to do. Okay. You're absolutely, while you were talking, I was was you inspired me on the computer so i was like let me just do a little search what'd you find that there is a chiropractic school i'm

not going to say it because i don't want to endorse and i don't want to there's a chiropractic school that is only charging twelve thousand dollars a year now i don't know if they're cuckoo quacky which is why i'm not going to you understand why yes but i'm just saying there's ranges i i just because here's the deal i love chiropractic care you probably don't know this about me i love the snap crackle and the pop and are you like a million dollars are you cool with going to dr 12 000 you know why i'm probably cool with it because you don't ask yeah have you have you ever been to a chiropractor? I'm not. I'm afraid. I have. Oh, no, it's fantastic.

I love it. Fantastic. In fact, I'll recommend. A nice married couple that Stacey and I go to, all of our kids. It's great. But anyway, here's the point. I never asked them where they went to chiropractic school.

I can tell whether or not they're cuckoo, they're quacks. I mean, check the reviews is all I'm saying. And what you've done. 100%. They were highly recommended from people that we know and trust. This is how we all pick doctors. That's right. I guess my point is that

no one cares how much your chiropractic school costs. They just want their back and neck to feel better. That's true. I need an adjustment now. All this talk about it. I need a little adjustment. That's like that episode of Seinfeld where Kramer just does adjustments and he doesn't have

the real education. Alex Hearn gives me one in the back. He can pop my back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me this hour. 888-825-5225.

Here's the number to jump in. Our scripture of the day comes from 1 Corinthians 15, 58. Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me this hour. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Is the number to jump in? Our scripture of the day comes from 1 Corinthians 15-58. Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

Our quote of the day from the I think one of the great voices about American liberty and freedom and just a great philosopher, Thomas Sowell. He said, people say you're a very tough person. I'm not tough. Life is tough.

I'm merely trying to acquaint you with the facts. He's a no-nonsense guy, Thomas Sowell. I like that. I like him, man. He's one of my favorite voices in the world. Fantastic, fantastic guy. All right, let's go to Veronica in Tampa, Florida. Veronica, how can we help? Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. You bet. I'm calling because my husband and I are trying to figure out what's the best route

for us to take to pay off our student loans. We have about $110,000 in student loans. My husband, I don't work outside of the home. I actually recently resigned to be a full-time stay-at-home parent. And we are also expecting our third child. So I don't anticipate on working for the next several months. My husband earns about $112,12 annually. That's before taxes. And we just are pretty overwhelmed with the total amount of our student loan debt. And we were discussing, like, should we sell our home and downsize for a time? Should I find a job? Is the student loan debt the only debt that you have or do you have other debts as well?

No, we have a $12,000 car payment and $2,800 in medical bills that we're likely going to pay off this year. So our biggest concern is the student loans just because it's such a mountain. It's like really big. Yeah, I mean it is. I want to know what were you earning before you resigned? is the student loans just because it's such a mountain. You know, it's like really big. Yeah. I mean, it is. I want to know, what were you earning before you resigned? Before I resigned, I was bringing home about $55,000. And my husband was still in around the $110,000 range.

Okay. So combined, it was about $160,000. So conceptually, I like to kind of pull this out of the clouds and bring it down back when you were working you guys were bringing in you said 112 for him 55 for you you guys were bringing in you know 167 000 almost 170 000 you guys could have lived on 70 and been out of debt in a year with some side hustles. Right. So when I was working, we did have to pay for child care. And that just that was almost all of my income.

OK. And we do budget every month and we look at all the areas that we can cut back on and um it just seems like there's still not there's still not like enough to make the the headways on our student loans okay so let's let's let me let me give you a plan and we'll see if this strikes a chord with you so the way that we teach oh before i give you a plan how much money do you have saved? Probably like 10 or 12,000. Okay. So we'll say 11,000 saved.

Yeah. Okay. So a couple of things about how we teach here. We teach a series of seven baby steps. Have you heard of them? Okay. So the first baby step is you get a thousand bucks saved. Does that ring sound familiar? Right. right okay so you know that one second one is we say to list your debts from smallest to largest

and pay them off and that's called doing a debt snowball you pay minimum payments on everything but you focus on the smallest debt so you can knock it out pay it off feel good about yourself get that dopamine hit and feel motivated to continue on, right? So there's a purpose in doing it that way. The way that you talked about doing it was flipped on its head. And when we see that, it's a lot harder to stay motivated because all you see is this giant mountain and you don't have any trail of success to tell you that you can do it. You just have to stand there and go, all right, I guess I have to start climbing. Where if you do it smallest to largest, you've got, you've proven, hey, I can be successful.

I paid off all those bills back there. I'll be able to pay this one off. It's just going to take a little bit longer. So mentally, it really does help you. And I want to, I don't, I don't feel confident that I've convinced you to do it that way, but I really, really, really think you should. We believe in the dead snowball method. So we've actually done it before. And before my husband, right when my husband and I got married, we combined everything.

Okay, good. And we had our student loans. We were, we had our student loans. They were still there. We had just graduated college and everything. But we had thousands and thousands of dollars in consumer debt. Okay. So you've made headway.

Yeah, we've made a lot of headway. We actually sold our first home, took the proceeds to pay off all of our consumer debt, downsized for about 18 months, had another child, and then we purchased a home, we put 20% down, and now we're like, okay, we feel like we didn't,

obviously we didn't go all the way the first time because we still left our student loan. But that's the difference. I'm calling this out because that's the difference. You guys didn't work the debt snowball. You sold a home and paid off that consumer debt. And there's nothing wrong with that. But you never exercise that mental muscle of spending time and effort at one task and hammering away at that task and proving

that over time you can display that discipline. And I think that's what's missing. And now you're looking at this 110 of student loan debt and you're like, oh crap, I don't have anything I can sell to make this go away. I'm actually gonna have to like do the hard, hard work. And I will never stand here and tell you that it's easy because it is hard. And I think that's where you guys are like, dang it. Like we did all this sacrifice

and we sold this house and we did this and we did that and we still have debt. And so i think this time you are going to have to walk through that step and the great news about it is when you do it this way you're never going to go back into debt again because you're going to go oh my god i never want to have to go through that again so have you veronica have you and your husband sat down and just started mapping out, okay, how long would it take us to pay this off if we did this much a month, then a new total this much a month? It helps to break this big mountain apart and go, all right, and I'm throwing this out there. If we did $1,000 a month, even if we had to really hustle to come up with $1,000 a month to knock this out. Okay, that's $12,000 a year. So then you start doing the math on that. Then what would it take to do this? You have some bigger months.

We sell some other stuff and maybe put $2,000 one month. Have you sat down and really said, okay, what could we do right now? And then what would we have to do to be able to really put a good chunk on this, like a $3,000 a month, which now knocks it down to about a little bit less than three years. Have you done that? Yeah, we've done that. We've done it on a high level. What's stopping us, like what seems like the bottleneck is the fact that I'm not working, which is something that's very new to us.

Yes, but let me encourage you, though. Your work before was literally going to child care. It was almost like a net loss. It was like a net net. So I actually don't think you should let that hold you up because, and I'm not trying to make you feel bad about all that time you worked, but if your work is barely covering the child care for you to be able to work, then you weren't gaining anyway.

So I don't think that I want to get over as a mental hurdle. Does that make sense? Right. So now we go, wait a second. The good news is we're saving a bunch of money on child care. You're at home with the baby. So now we go, how do we increase our income? And my point is you guys have got to sit down and go, all right, what can we do?

Scrapping. Scrapping. I'm sitting next to a lady who she and her husband scrapped and hustled and paid off almost half a million dollars it's not easy but jay we're we're willing to to do like what we need to do i think and this is definitely not a burden at all this is a blessing the fact that we're we're growing our family it's just a thought of you know like okay i'm set to give birth my husband has trying to leave he'll be home with us we have two small children already so it's like okay it's almost like putting a pause

to this for the next six to seven months because my husband works a lot now anyway. Right. So he's probably like, he, you know, can't really, he can, but we don't want him to have to get another job right now. Right. He's pregnant and everything. And here's the thing. You're going to, I don't know how long until the baby comes real quick. Four months. Okay.

So you've got three to four months where he can be scrapping. You have the baby. He pulls back for a couple of weeks until everybody's home and well. And then you guys get after it. You've got to get after it. You can do this, but you've got to make up your mind that you can. Good show. Thank you, Jade Warshaw, James Childs, and all the guys in the booth.

Thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney here. Mental and emotional health challenges, broken relationships, it's all just part of life, but they don't have to define you. The Dr. John Deloney Show is here to help. It's a caller-driven podcast where you can get practical advice on dealing with anxiety, loneliness, depression, relationship challenges, your kids, and so much

more. Listen to questions from our callers, or if you're walking through a tough situation and need some help, give me a call. You were never meant to do life alone, and that's what this podcast is all about. Follow along on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app. Remember, you're worth being well.