The Ramsey Show - Make Financial Choices That Give You Freedom

Episode Date: June 12, 2024

💵 Sign-up for EveryDollar today - The simplest way to budget for your life! Ken Coleman & Rachel Cruze answer your questions and discuss: "I am $470K in debt and drowning" "Is there a responsible way to go into debt?" Selling Taylor Swift tickets to pay off debt, Watch the trailer Mike Rowe's new movie Something to Stand For A 14-year-old entrepreneur looking to expand, Getting sent to collections... in Europe Support Our Sponsors: Zander Insurance Health Trust Financial Churchill Mortgage Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 🚢 The Live Like No One Else Cruise is booking fast!  📄 Will an online will work for you? 🏠 Find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome aboard. We're here to help you win in your life, win with your money, win in your work, and win in your life, win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the number. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour, and she'll be taking the money questions. I'll jump in on the income questions related to your work.

You ready to go, Miss Rachel? Oh, yeah, Ken. Summer time. Summer, summer, summer time. Here we are. We are here. In June, living it up. And the weather could not be nicer in Middle Tennessee. A nod to our lovely studio audience out there, great looking people today from all around the country. So let's get to it. Michael's going to start us off in Columbus, Ohio. Michael, how can we help today? Hey, I'm pretty much drowning in debt. I'm 27 years old

and I got about $350,000 in my house that I owe and about $120,000 in eight different accounts that I'm owing. I'm just kind of trying to figure out what the best route is. I have a 401k loan.

I have doctor bills. I have 8,000 IRS. I have two personal loans, one auto loan, one travel trailer loan. And, uh, and then a 20,000 on a credit card. Oh my gosh. Okay. Um, so how did, how did you get here, Michael? What, what's, what's kind of the backstory? What's caused all this?

I think previously I didn't make much money, and then I got a job where I started making more money. So I just started spending more, and then I think it became a habit. And then I started trying to pay off my debt, so I started consolidating debt with a loan, paying that off or not paying it off, but consolidate it and then rack up all my credit cards and, you know, finance more stuff. And then I consolidated again. And I probably did that two or three times. But now I'm kind of, I'm right at the edge, I would say. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's, you're bumping, yeah, half a million dollars in, in,

in debt, including a mortgage. Um, but this, so the consumer debt is what I would probably, what I want to talk to you about first and foremost, um, because this is where, are you, are you behind on payments? Uh, no, I've been making payments and I've tried, uh, I'm pretty much minimum and all my payments other than one loan, which I was doing the snowball before. And then I pretty much fell off of that. And I'm just kind of, I'm at a point where I'm just kind of like maxing out. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just trying to figure out where, where's the basic beginning first steps are of this. Okay. That should be taken. Um, what kind of, what kind of career are you in now? first steps are of this? Okay. That should be taken.

What kind of career are you in now? How much are you making? I'm in energy and utilities for my linemen. Probably, it kind of floats depending on overtime, but the last two years I've made about $180,000. Wow. Yeah. That's fantastic. Income is great great there's no question you've got a good income and you've got some potential future here this is uh this is getting control.

Yeah of you Michael I mean that's what it is I'm like it it's a um and it's a in and in your case it is that classic example of people that have the issue right of debt not controlling the behavior and thinking mathematically they can work their way out by getting into more debt with you know a different interest rate or you know trying to kind of move the puzzle pieces around but at the end of the day it's yeah it is you and so I mean we can sit here for sure and kind of talk through some of this on a logistical side but I think the head knowledge I think you may have Michael you said you were doing the snowball at one point I think for you there just has to be this I've had it moment and you just haven't had

it yet this could be it as we're talking and where you're at currently why you called in but there has to be enough pain in your present situation for change to occur and and that's going to be my biggest thing with you that there's going to be a plan And it's going to be long and excruciating And it's going to take a lot more Hours that you're going to be working It's going to be, your life is going to Look 180 degrees Different than how it does today in order for you to get out of this

Are you committed to do that Kind of change? Yeah, I think I am I just had two kids I have two under two I just had two kids. I have two under two. Oh, wow. I mean, I can't be living like this.

Yep, totally. What's your biggest need? I know what you started the call with, but what do you really need help with? Because I think Rachel just nailed you really well. So what is it that you really want from us today? What I want from y'all is to kind of help me figure out the best route I can do this. Ultimately, what I want is time with my family. I'm sick of working 60 to 80, 90-hour weeks.

I want to get back down to 40, 50 hours a week and just be able to live on that. Yeah, absolutely. So I love that. That's a good target. Yep, for sure. So I think, Michael, the debt snowball, like we talked about, because you listed out a lot of debts at the beginning of the call. So what I would want you to do is sit down and list all of those out, the total of them, and the smallest amount, not payment, not interest rate, the smallest amount to the largest amount. So this could be in your credit cards, $20,000 of credit

cards. If it's multiple credit cards, split those totals up right i mean per each credit card is its own debt and list that out and what i would say is i think getting quick wins for you guys michael um is going to be huge and i say you guys because your wife are you married yes yeah i mean your your wife has to be as committed as you are in this. Where is she at with everything? To be honest, she's a stay-at-home mom, and I would say she's more in the dark about everything. I need to be more open with her. What's your spending situation?

Are you guys spending way too much, or have you already started the process of tightening the belt? I believe I've been tightening the belt she hasn't too we still she doesn't know she doesn't know how bad it is yeah by the way and the way you said that if this were a court of law i'd be all over this as a lawyer you just said i've i have which that tells me what's really going on and rachel just pointed it out yeah so yeah so Michael I think there's two big things as we leave this call because I don't think we're going to be able to solve all of this in you know one segment here on the show but two things I want you guys the biggest piece is going to be the relational piece Michael and when you said that she's in

the dark some you're gonna you're gonna have one of maybe the hardest conversation you've had in marriage thus far and I want you to rip the band- far. And I want you to rip the bandaid off. And I want you to be a thousand percent honest down to the penny. And she's probably going to be pissed. She's going to probably feel a level of betrayal, a probably a level of I've been in the dark. How has this been happening? And I had no clue.

I mean, you're going to go through some crap, but that is one of the most beautiful things that can happen for you guys. I mean, honestly, because finally it's off of your plate, Michael. I can't imagine what you've been carrying around. some crap but that is one of the most beautiful things that can happen for you guys i mean honestly because finally it's off of your plate michael i can't imagine what you've been carrying around i mean the amount of stress and everything has been on you and and that's not to her fault she doesn't know but but there's going to be something about bringing all this to the lights michael for you instead of you trying to manage everything and pay the payments and do the thing work extra and figure it out on your own that you have a wife and you guys can be a team in this.

And it's going to be really hard. But I'm telling you, it's one of the best things that you guys can do together in your marriage. You may need some marriage counseling after this. I'm serious. Well, I was going to say, let's help them. Let's do every dollar premium. Well, I was going to do a couple things at the end. Oh, I'm sorry.

I'm jumping ahead. Well, it's just the two things. I'm Kris Kringle over here. No, it's just the two things. So the conversation, Michael, with your wife is really important that's number one as we leave this call please do that number two you need some quick wins you had a car loan that maybe you may just need to sell the car get a quick win on that do the math if you can't pay it off in 12 months get rid of the car there was some kind of trailer loan or something if you sell that like you guys

need some momentum starting and some of the best ways you can do that is sell stuff that you have debt on. So do those things, but also stay on the line because Chris Kringle, what are we going to give Michael today? Every dollar. We're going to get you an FPU. And also I want to line you up with one free coaching session with one of our financial coaches. This'll be therapy 101 and kind of get the therapy process potentially started, but a real coach is going to walk you through how you guys walk out of this going forward. You guys can do it, Michael. Hang on the line.

We'll take care of you. This is The Ramsey Show. One of the questions I get all the time is, which life insurance company should I use for my term life policy? A valid question since there are hundreds of companies out there with rates all over the place and riders and add-ons that are simply a waste of money. You need to get this done and make the right decision. That's why the only company I use and have recommended for over 25 years is Zander Insurance. Zander is a broker who shops the top term life companies for you

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Rachel Cruz joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Lindsay is going to join us now right here in our neck of the woods, Nashville, Tennessee. Lindsay, how can we help today? Hi, thank you for taking my question. I am writing in with a relationship money question, actually. So back in college, my parents loaned me about $18,000 to go to college. It was $15,000 in principal and $3,000 in interest to help me pay for college under the agreement that I would pay it off within three years of graduation. Fortunately, I was able to do that. But after listening to many, many episodes of your guys' show, I feel a little bit, you know, taken advantage of. And my question is, is it worth expressing my feelings to my parents now, despite the loan being paid back?

Or do I just accept the lesson, don't borrow from family and try to do better with my own kids going forward? Okay, I'll start because I think I represent my colleague here. I don't know that we can answer that question without understanding why it is you think they took advantage of you. Based on what you've laid out right now, it doesn't sound like they took advantage of you. So what are we missing that makes you feel like they took advantage of you? Correct. So I knew the full amount when I signed for it. You know, they told me things like, you can go get a loan from a bank, but God forbid something happened while you're paying them back. You know, we're your parents. We would be much more understanding of that situation should it present itself. And I guess

it's the whole charging interest thing that I guess doesn't sit right. Okay, another question. You've paid this all back, as I understand it, correct? Correct, yes. When did the tension arise over the interest? In the middle of it, before you started paying it back, or after you got done with it? Paying the whole thing. More so after I got done with it. How long after you got done with it? Paying the whole thing? More so after, yeah, more so after I got done with it, you know. How long after you got done with it? It was about a year after. What changed? What changed? So,

I'm digging here on purpose, Rachel, thank you for giving me a little leeway here. It's a fair question. It's a very fair question. So let me explain it to the audience and to you one time, and then I want you to answer this. So you paid it back. You paid back the full $18,000 and about three grand of it was the interest. Is that what I'm understanding? I was $18,000 and three of it was interest. That's what I'm saying. So okay, so you paid it all back, all right? And a year after you paid it back, at some point, at some day, a year after you paid it back this started to bother you so that tells me something happened what happened or dare i ask who happened um so it i got married um a year after a little over a year after i graduated college

and my husband and i were talking about it, and he was shocked that they charged me interest and thought it was horrible that a parent would charge a child interest on a loan. And you believed him all of a sudden? Yes. Had it occurred to you before his comment that that might be a horrible, despicable thing in someone else's eyes? Be honest. Sure. It had occurred to you? You're telling me at some point you were like, I appreciate what my parents are doing, but I think this is a little, this is a bit shady.

No, no, no, no. Sorry, sorry. I misunderstood your question. I know. I'm playing lawyer. I watch too many television shows. Here's my point. The husband said this, and because of his understandable influence on you, and probably just by his sheer reaction, which he, by the way, has every right to his opinion, this totally shifted everything. So I'm going to get out of the way and let Rachel weigh in, but I'm going to tell you my opinion now.

I've gotten everything I need to know. So my opinion is it's too late, and I don't think there was any tension or resentment at all until your hubs opened his mouth. He has every right to open his mouth. He has every right to opine on what your parents did. I don't like how he said it because I think he should have been wiser and more mature. And if he was on the phone, I'd tell him this.

He has every right to his opinion, but he's now created some tension and resentment after the fact and only from his point of view. And so for that reason, no, I don't think you should bring it up to your parents. And I think you need to figure out how to process this. Maybe it's therapy. But to create tension now, to me, seems foolish. Yeah, I think what's hard for me, Lindsay, where it does not feel like they took advantage of you is because everything was up front. If you had called, and we've had these calls of people called, they said said oh my gosh we pulled my credit report after i got married to buy a house and i had a student loan on there my

parents took out a loan i remember signing papers at 18 but they never told me you know that's deceitful uh people parents that um that loan with strings attached that we'll give you this money maybe for a down payment on a house but you guys have to live this close to us. We have to see the grant. You know, there's strings attached in relationships. It's kind of gross. Like this sounds like, even though we're not for, you're exactly right, we are not for family members

loaning money, period. But the way they did it, Lindsay, it sounded very clear, very upfront. And the reason they did it from what I hear is they did it from a situation that a it's less risk with the loan being held to them it was not a hey we're gonna give you a deal we're gonna charge you and now if the three if the three thousand dollars um was unreasonable interest right if they're charging you 50 interest and they're taking advantage of you that's gross

and weird but did they do that they pulled the average interest rate and they just said, hey, just do the loan with us. Because if something happens, their words, we can give you grace period. It won't hurt you financially. That's a very good point. That's the reason they did it. It wasn't a mathematical, you're going to get a deal from us. We're going to give you this half off. So Lindsay, I don't think they took advantage of you. I think you knew exactly what you were signing up for and i think that the reason they did it was so that a bank wasn't involved but it wasn't a financial deal on their end it was just a hey here's this did they charge you the going rate on interest i mean rachel brings us a very good point

here well no so it would have been um about what is that, 20% maybe? It was $1,000 for every $5,000 that I borrowed from them. Okay. All right. Yeah, so that's a little steep. Are your parents super tight? Yes, very. Okay. So actually, I'm glad you brought this up, Rachel. Sorry, I know I was diving in a little bit, not truly interrupting because I don't like that. Go, Ken, go. Okay. Well, I personally wouldn't charge my kid interest.

And again, we don't loan our kids money. Right. Nor am I going to. But I'm trying to put myself into this. Sure, sure. So remember the little classic, we tell you what we would do? Okay, we wouldn't do it. But if I'm sticking myself in, I think it's a little tight. I think it's a little tight i think it's a little tight sure but they didn't do anything but take advantage is a really

strong language i don't like that language feels like it was deceitful and i don't think they did i am gonna say though lindsey i so i have another follow-up question i can't wait for rachel to get involved in this potentially so the timeline for all of our viewers and listeners here a quick review it was a year after you paid it off that hubs and you have the conversation he gets he gets Potentially. So the timeline for all of our viewers and listeners here, a quick review. It was a year after you paid it off that hubs and you have the conversation. He gets, he gets upset and it affects you. How much time between that first moment where he makes the comment and this phone call today, how much time has passed? Uh, years. We've been married for almost three years. Oh, wow. That really concerns me. I was very intrigued by this so here we are are you saying three years ago is when he first got alarmed and you started questioning this deal three years ago yes all right yeah so you've been sitting on this for

three years and it's the loan's been paid off for three years as well four loans been paid i got i'm sorry i'm sewing the timeline here the question is, Rachel, doesn't that concern you? I'm very concerned. Concerned? What do you mean that she's just resenting? This resentment is just boiling up. Yeah, it's built and it's built. And she's calling us and I'm glad you called us.

Yeah. Lindsay, I would really. Stop talking about it. Get over it. I would release it, Lindsay. I really would. I think that, yes, they're probably cheap to a degree. Probably.

Yeah, they're cheap. They're a big time cheap. But they didn't do anything deceitful. You knew exactly what you were signing up for. And so I think it's one of those things that, again, thankfully you have the money to pay them back and all of it. But the deal is like, this isn't, this is another reason, right? Why we don't loan money.

So I'm glad you've been watching the show, Lindsay, because you're exactly right. This is, I would do this because it does feel weird. And it's not only does it feel weird because you owe your parents money when we talk about that but it's also weird in this situation when you look back and you're like oh gross I don't like how that felt so like all of that is standard and this is the Ramsey show you've worked saved sacrificed and been gazelle intense with your financial game plan but do you have the right defense in place, like the right health insurance? Look, you can't walk past a doctor's office these days without getting a massive bill. And if you don't have health insurance, a major medical situation can undo

all of your hard work. That's where my friends at Health Trust Financial can help. They work for you, not the insurance company. So they find you the right health insurance and they save you money. Ramsey has recommended Health Trust Financial for two decades because they're the experts. And whether you're 19 years old or 90, you can trust them to do two very important things. Listen to you, then find you health insurance coverage with everything you need and nothing you don't. Health Trust Financial is your one-stop shop for unbiased advice about affordable health insurance options.

They could save you hundreds of dollars a month, so make sure you're not overpaying. Go to healthtrustfinancial.com today. healthtrustfinancial.com today. healthtrustfinancial.com Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. All right, folks. If you are debt-free, you're walking through the baby steps and you're going, man, I got to learn how to turn that corner, Rachel,

from that gazelle intensity that you really need for one through three. To enjoying life. And you start to go, and we get these calls all the time. People are going, I mean, I did it. I got to learn how to spend money. You know, I mean, we get like those calls every week. Then I've got an idea.

I've got an idea for you Baby Steps four through seven people. Is this a new idea? Are you coming up with this on the spot, Ken? No. No, I see what you did there. No, but I'm saying some of you are going, I need to learn how to transition from gazelle intensity to actually living like no one else. So I got an idea. What if you went on a cruise with me and Rachel and Dave and John Deloney and George Campbell and Jade Warshaw and some of

our friends, and you went to places like Turks and Caicos. And then after you did that, you went to St. Thomas. And then we got to go to Puerto Rico. Yeah. Hello, U.S. territory. And then you're down there. Go to the Bahamas. Let's go to the Bahamas.

And so I'm sitting next to the Bahama mama herself. You got a little tan going on, I noticed today. Oh, we went to the beach last week. Okay, I thought you had a little more color. Thanks, thanks. And so this cruise is actually a thing. We're going on a cruise, y'all. We are doing, it's called Live Like No One Else Cruise.

It's seven days, all of those locations. We're going. Rachel will be there, bronzed up. I mean, she'll be ready to go. All of her Walmart beach gear all of the things are you gonna have like a special Instagram this is my cruise outfit I'll tell you my outfit Rachel Cruz cruises there you go that's good that's good I'm really working here because you're known for this if people don't follow you on Instagram you always have

these deals yeah well if I find a good deal personally i'm like yeah i'll share it out and i'm getting fed up i'm can i tell you i'm getting fed up with it because i love your outfits you know this i you love the way you're but every time you got a deal it's not every time i feel like every time i see you once or twice a week it feels like a little people love it hey listen ladies out there appreciate it first of all i'm kidding but i am and jealous that you're always got this new deal. Thanks. Thanks, Kim. Well, but the new deal is happening right now with this cruise, you guys. March 22 through 29. Of 2025. So it's a $600 deposit to secure your cabin.

And again, we're going to hang out. It's going to be a week-long cruise. It's going to be a ship full of people that have lived like no one else. We're speaking. We're going to do Q&A. We're going to do Q&A. We're going to be hanging out. And I just secured this new thing right before we came back on the air. Rachel's a reader. And I love this about her. She loves to read. She loves to go on the gram

and talk about her books. I think I convinced her to have a little book club on one of the decks every afternoon. I told her I'm excited to have a cocktail in the afternoon with a good thriller book on the deck of the boat would you be willing would you be willing to to read to people i gotta like maybe one chapter from the latest book rachel reads i think it'd be a huge hit on the fourth deck we all say around two o'clock i bring 20 copies and out cocktails and copies of books there you you go. You just do one chapter. You hand out a chapter and they sit and everyone reads it. So you never know what's going to happen on this cruise.

You never know. You never know. We're a good time. I'm trying to get her to agree to do that. And we're a good time. Eddie Cullen will be there too. I see him in the booth right now. Eddie's in the control room.

So here we go. Here are the dates. March 22 through 29, 2025, 600 bucks right now. Secures your cabin. Yeah yeah just as the deposit yeah sorry everybody's like 600 yeah that's the deposit that secures your cabin it's a nice cruise ship too and it's very nice we saw pictures the other day uh the website to book and by the way it will sell out uh ramsay solutions.com slash cruise couldn't be any easier ramsaysolutions.com slash cruise some of the suites are sold out already they are um is there gonna be any

karaoke by any way by any chance oh i'm sure that's a classic cruise situation i will not be i will not be uh i think he's like half the week okay yeah all right so he's gonna come for a bit very exciting ramsaysolutions.com slash cruise move on it now you want to go and plan that trip boy it is going to be a lot of fun and i and i look at those destinations by the way turks and caco st thomas puerto rico the bahamas i've been to all but one oh i've never been the turks okay i don't know if i have either so a lot of fun yeah primo destination uh should be a lot of fun and uh we'll see there'll be more surprises i'm sure and fun stuff happening all the time i for one i'm going to show up for the book club

on the deck with you good spy novel yeah deck e on the starboard side starboard don't know what any of that means i should wear a sailor outfit one day just for fun so like one of those old school ones with the shorts no ken? Ken's going to have too much fun on this cruise. Kelly, the producer's terrified right now. Let's move to the calls to help her come out of her catonic state there. Sage is up in Austin, Texas. Sage, how can we help? Hi, sir. It's a pleasure to talk to you. Good to talk to you. What's going on? So my question is about getting into debt responsibly. We own our home, we have a mortgage, and we also have a three-year-old son who is on the autism spectrum.

He's a really good boy, except for his diagnosis, and he has a problem with escaping. He's a really good escape artist. He's gotten out of the house multiple times. We fixed that. We put locks everywhere on every window and whatnot. But now the issue is we'll be in the front yard with him, and it'll be like my father, my husband, something like that. You know, we're just playing a normal game. And then out of nowhere, he'll just bolt.

He'll go right into that busy street, or I'll turn around, and he'll quietly try to creep away to walk over to his friend's house. And we, we all, we always catch up. Well, almost always. There was, there was a couple of times that, well, there was one time actually that he was brought back by a police officer and that was very, very heartbreaking and very traumatic. It's just, it's a dangerous, it's a dangerous situation. So we want to install a fence in our front yard. And we know that a lot of families, especially children, have to have safety fences. It's almost like a necessity.

But it's also really expensive. It's about $5,000. And I don't want to go into debt, but I would put it on the credit card. But I'm also a Christian, so it's said that we're supposed to be in debt to no man. And I'm wondering, what's the responsible thing to do here? Well, we're not going to tell you to put it on your credit card. I'll give it to Rachel here pretty quickly. I just want to point out as a father and putting myself in your shoes, this is not easy. And you've got a lot of hoops that you have to jump through and a lot of safety precautions. But if I was in your shoes, I would

not put anything, any debt on this. I would not do this. We're not going to debt to build a $5,000 fence because he's always looking to get out. And even with the fence, you're still going to have to watch him because it's not going to be long before he's old enough to figure out how to get out of the fence. And at this point, I would not, if I was going to take my kid outside, I would go, when we go outside, we're on high alert here. We're not doing what normal people do. Well, but my point is, is then he shouldn't be running away if we're on high alert. And the fence is a part of the fix. It's not the fix. But I think you guys could save up $5,000.

You could sell stuff to come up with $5,000 pretty quick. But until then, I wouldn't be out in the front yard with you. Or the yard, period. Rachel, is that harsh? Yeah, no front yard in the spring, no front yard in the summer. Yeah, I mean, where are you guys at financially? Do you have any savings? Yes, ma'am, we do. We have a little bit in savings.

How much? About, I think, $3,000 in savings. Okay. Do you guys have debt? No debt, you said? Yes. Yes, we have a mortgage, and that is $204,000. The reason why I was thinking about putting it on a credit card is we got this offer.

No, no, ever. No. Like, just don't even touch it yeah no and i wouldn't i wouldn't sage i would take you know um i would take part of your three thousand but you guys you guys need to be building that up even more how much you guys make a year uh he makes forty thousand a year forty thousand okay so yeah i mean i i wouldn't i mean you you called the Ramsey show. We're not going to tell you to go into debt over anything. It's a pretty black and white issue here on this show, especially. And there's a spiritual element to that. I mean, you mentioned being a Christian. It's not a sin. Debt is not a sin. You can still go to heaven if you charge it on this credit card, right? I mean, it's not a sin issue, but it's this idea that, yes, there is a spiritual emotional component

to debt that is very real. And then there's also just the financial side. And you guys, you know, you don't have the money to afford this right now. And I think that this is a wake-up call, too. And I've had friends with similar diagnosis with children. And it's terrible. It's heartbreaking. It's so difficult.

But to no stage in the future. You guys need to be really, maybe you working extra, you working some. You guys need a good emergency fund in place because there's going to be tools that you guys are going to need to tap into for him in the future. And a fence is just the starting point. But no, I would not get in the habit of going into debt for this stuff. I would save, pay up, and just know that there's going to be further expenses for him in the future.

This is The Ramsey Show. Buying your first home is a big deal and sets the stage for your financial success. So work with a mortgage advisor you trust, not just some random website. Churchill Mortgage is Ramsey trusted because they help you avoid hidden traps and expertly guide you through every step. Learn more at churchillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSConsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. The lovely, the talented, the gracious Rachel Cruz joins me this hour.

888-825-5225. If I'm going to be co-hosting with you, it just occurred to me, I looked in the monitor, I'm going to have to get out in the sun. I feel like we're a fair, similar shade. Not to me, but I feel like a little extra pale, but you over here getting the vitamin D these days. Let's go to Jill, who is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Jill, how can we help? Hey, thanks for taking my call today. It's great to talk to you guys. You too. What's happening? Well, I have a question, and I kind of wanted you guys to weigh in on a little debate in our family. Oh, we love getting in the middle of

debates. We love a debate. Yes. Well, this is going to be kind of a fun one. So my daughter is 22 and she just graduated from college with some student loan debt. And about a year ago, she was able to get on the pre-sale and buy three tickets for her, my older daughter, and myself to go to a Taylor Swift concert in Indianapolis this coming November. Now hold on Jill. Jill I need to warn you before you go any further in setting this question to debate up I am sitting next to quite arguably one of the biggest Swifties I've ever met so this I don't know if I'm the biggest, but I got the right person. Oh no. Okay. Keep going. Keep going. Okay. So, you know, we had this back and forth over the

phone as, cause she was, um, tried to buy the tickets, you know, and it's this fast, furious thing when you're trying to buy them at, on the, you know, their actual sale date. And anyway, she was able to get them and we got them for like $209 a piece. Wow. Hold on a second. Hold on. Is that a good deal? That's a fabulous deal.

Like the resale. See, I thought it was a total splurge. I thought that was such a splurge. Well, it is relative to the way you see money. People were spending thousands of resale is it okay 209 each i'm just keeping score right okay keep going all right so and rachel just said it right so now i'm seeing these resale oh it's crazy oh it's crazy it's insane yeah and so i told her like look you know we we we're trying to I know where you're going with

this to pay down why don't you why don't we sell those tickets if we knock out so much you know but the practical mom comes out of me right like why don't we sell those tickets and you can knock down so much of your student loan but you'd be so far ahead you know and she says absolutely it's non-negotiable it's a bucket list item she's like probably you rachel a swifty and this is you know and it's her money right yes and and no it was my money oh okay it was my money so i paid for them but you know i mean this is and for me too i'm looking at like you know, I mean, this is, and for me, too, I'm looking at, like, you know, she's iconic. I would love to go to her concert. And, you know, my daughter, of all the people that she could take, she wants to take her sister and me. You know, I mean, that's great.

It's going to be a fun thing. Oh, my gosh. Rachel's heart is breaking. I am so looking forward to it. I'm so looking forward to this. Okay, so hold on. All right, stop. Again, practical mom.

I know. I'm going to be practical. You ready? Here we go. Let's start breaking this down. Okay. It's 209 times 3, okay? So I got $627 if my math is...

But if she resells on what was... No, no, no. We're not to resell yet. So you spent $627. What would your take be? Rachel, now walk us through. What do you think you could make on these tickets? Okay, so I just briefed it today before the call. And like, okay, so we're in the 200 level of seats, right? So good seats. 600 level seats, like nosebleeder seats, sold for like two grand a piece 400 level three grand a piece

and there are some 100 level that's just sold for forty seven hundred dollars a ticket so we're easily talking about four grand easy 10 yeah 10 i'm thinking they would average out between three three four grand a ticket easy yeah per ticket i get it i get it uh-huh uh-huh and where would the money and so if we did that uh and so we would be netting, let's go $3,500 a ticket to be modest. And so what are you looking at, $10,500? $10,000. $10,500.

How much is the student loan debt? Yeah. What's it going to? $24,000. So her student loan debt is $24,000? Correct. And that's what you would want to put the money towards? Absolutely. 100% of it would go to there.

All right. And you initially invested $627. That is correct. And the only reason that you can net, let's just call it shy of $10,000 grand is because you bought these tickets would you be putting nine thousand plus dollars towards her student loan if you hadn't bought these tickets i would not all right i'm going somewhere uh i i think well i don't i don't care what anybody says i i wouldn't i wouldn't i wouldn't resell these tickets are you shocked at his response jill this is the holy spirit moving no no i'll tell you what dare i say why she wouldn't have put that money here's the deal jill you weren't planning to

to cut a check for nine thousand five hundred500 to put on your daughter's student loan ever. I was not. So my whole point is... This is like a windfall, right? If $9,500 fell into my lap, I might do that. I get it, but this is your daughter's and it's a once-in-a-lifetime concert? Oh, yeah. I agree.

You go, Jill. Go to the concert. I agree. You go, Jill. Go to the concert. I agree. Oh, you were just shocked at what I said, or was that fake? Because I was so thankful that we were together on the same team, that our opinions lined up. I thought you were going to be Scrooge. Rachel, tell Olivia. Tell Olivia.

Please tell Olivia that we're going to the concert. Oh, Olivia, you get to go to the Taylor Swift concert. And she has the new Torture Poets. She has her new album. She has a whole new set. A whole new thing. Yeah. I just... Oh, Olivia, you get to go to the Taylor Swift concert. And she has the new Torture Poets. She has her new album. She has a whole new set. A whole new thing. Yeah, I just... Oh, yeah. I will tell you this.

And it's fan... I have a set list playlist that I have to listen to every day. And Jill, it's fantastic. I got to learn all these songs. I went to two. I went to two. I went to the Nashville one, and then I flew my husband out to Seattle with me

to go to the other one. No kidding. How fun. Listen, I... It's really good. I'm looking's really good. It's so fun. I just, here's why I'm saying that. You weren't going to do this anyway. And I think your daughter said absolutely no way. And I think it creates an unnecessary tension. She's 22. She needs to pay the thing off herself anyway. There's a lot of reasons. I want our audience to know I'm not

just, I just think when I will look at something like this this is about the emotional not the financial and could you go to a Taylor Swift concert in the future yes you could but I think you're looking at this and you're going oh my gosh and who wouldn't consider the resale value believe me I would be thinking about it but it comes down to it I'll just just say this. This is a personal anecdote. I'm no Swifty. She doesn't particularly do anything for me at all, but I have a 15-year-old daughter. And when my wife and I were in Europe last year for our 25th anniversary, we got a text from Sweet Josie.

And she had gotten invited the night before to Taylor Swift's concert at the Titans football stadium. And so we were like, of course you can go. Have fun. the night before to Taylor Swift's concert at the Titans football stadium. And it was, and so we were like, of course you can go have fun. It was a gift from her friend's dad, blah, blah, blah. All right. So we returned from Europe. And one of the first things I asked my daughter was tell me about that night and to see her describe that night. And then I had a friend six weeks later who worked for Taylor Swift's merch company. It was a new friend. We had cigars. And I say, really, you work for Taylor Swift? He goes, yeah. Do you want some merch for your daughter? I was like, if you would make me dad of the year. He put a bag, and I mean giant

bag of Taylor Swift merch. Was it Erez tour stuff? The latest tour on my front porch. And here's the story. Thank you for the audience for giving me a little latitude when i walked in my house kelly and said josie come downstairs i got a surprise for you and i told her the story i didn't buy this this is from a friend of mine she got it she cried when she began to open up hoodies long sleeve tees t-shirts and i said to myself i don't get it but i get it so my advice here is everything will be alright if we just keep dancing like we're 22 your daughter's 22

she is I don't know about you but I feel like I had to pull the lyrics up I cheated and she will not be down bed praying at the gym now so we're going yeah you know this is what happens when Dave goes out of town and she will not be down bed praying at the gym now. So we're going. Yeah, you know. This is what happens when Dave goes out of town. This is the show that we all need in America.

This is it. This is the segment we all needed. Yeah, you know, you can't be grumpy Grandpa Dave in this situation. Jill, this is bucket list. Make memories with your two daughters. Yes, and then she needs to pay off that debt. She needs to pay off the loan. She needs to pay it off. Tell her to get pay off the loan. She needs to pay it off.

Tell her to get to it. Man, geez, just getting through to get the tickets was hard enough. Hey, Jill knew the lyrics. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life. We want you to win with your money, win in your relationships, and win in your profession. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour.

The phone number for you to jump in with your question is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. We started off this hour in Des Moines, Iowa. Kip is joining us there. Kip, how can we help? Hey, so I'm 14. I live out in the country and I have this mini business called Horsesake Helpers because it started in a little neighborhood called Horsesake. And my friend and I are wanting to expand out into the city because we think we've gotten most of the customers that are willing to let us work for them. And first, I just am wondering if you think it's a good idea to

move into the city or stay where we're at. And second of all, if we do move to the city to send the postcards to the mail, which is how I want to do it, or how my friend wants to do it, which is just to come up to their house and put the postcard in the mailbox. All right. Well, let me take that part of the question on first because that's illegal. Everywhere in the United States, you can't put something in a mailbox that doesn't have postage on it.

However, you ever driven by a mailbox and seen like a flyer stuck between the red flag and the mailbox? Interestingly enough, that's not illegal. But I love the moxie of your partner on this deal. But let's not do anything illegal. But I think that I'd go another step further. I wouldn't do the flyer on the mailbox. I was just giving you an example of that.

I'd be knocking on doors and letting people look you right in the eye and tell them exactly what you're doing. I think the fact that you're 14. Yeah, Kip, how old's your partner? I love that. How old's the business partner? He's 13. What do you guys do?

How are y'all getting there? How do y'all get to the city? His dad will be taking us on the days that we have jobs. What's your business again? Horse Lake Helpers. And what does that mean? It's just the name of the neighborhood that it started in and then helpers because it sounds nice.

Oh, no, no, no. I'm saying what are you helping people? What are you doing? What's the business? Oh, okay. So we do the three things that we have marketed is walking dogs, mowing lawns, and washing cars. Okay.

Which of the three, hold on a second, which of the three do you do, I mean, rank those three services, walking dogs, mowing lawns, washing cars, rank those and how much you're doing. Which one is the most popular service? Definitely the, do you mean by how many times I've done it? Yeah Are people wanting you to mow their lawn more than they are wash their car? Or do they want you walking their dogs?

What's the most popular service? Walking dogs Oh really? And what's next? Then probably mowing lawn I haven't had a car wash in a while Okay, alright, well that's good So Kip, I mean you had a car wash in a while. Okay. All right. Well, that's good. So, Kip, I mean, you're 14.

The answer is? Well, when school starts, I don't know. I'm like the mother hen here. I mean, I think entrepreneur, we may have different takes on this. There's a part of me that I'm like, you know, I think expanding business and all of that, I think that's all great. I think it's all great. I also don't want you to get in over your skis,

as some would say, that you're 14 and you have school. Okay, hold on. Let me, okay. All right, Mama Hen. I think you're doing an incredible job, Kim. I mean, we are all about this. This is how you make money.

Like, honestly, if you're a teenager, instead of working at a fast food place, do this. Like, you're going to make so much more money. But also, I don't know, like you're going to make so much more money um but also i don't know like you're you're driving to other parts maybe that for the summer let me let me dig in a little bit all right i appreciate the mother hen but we got to find out if he's ready to expand okay all right so you and your buddy want to expand because you feel like you've run out of places to talk to about your three services clearly the, the car washing thing, it's a no-go in your area. Nobody wants your service.

So there's a clue right there. But the dog walking seems to be the reason why I ask what's the most popular is I want to know where your market is. And so in Des Moines, Iowa suburbs, people want their dogs walked. Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah. And you've run out of people who have dogs who might be interested. Is that what i'm hearing yes all right so how far is the city how far of a drive are we talking about uh probably like a

10-minute drive from my house great or maybe like seven from their house all right so we got to talk to dad uh we got to talk to the dad or the adults in your life and go if i schedule some dog walking how is that going to inconvenience you all because to rachel's point somebody's got to get you even seven to ten minutes away to where you can walk rover for somebody okay now the the cutting of lawns same deal so yeah i would but you know what i would do i would pick a couple of neighborhoods to target and i talked to your mom and dad and all the adults in, but you know what I would do? I would pick a couple of neighborhoods to target. And I talked to your mom and dad and all the adults in your life. This is what I would do. And I would say, what are the wealthiest neighborhoods in Des Moines? Okay. Or whatever the city is. And that's where I would start because I would want to start and test this idea

of expanding. And I'd go walking around the neighborhood and I would knock on doors, maybe put a little money into a nice flyer that show you and your buddy walking people's dogs. We had, how long has this been open, Kip? How long have you guys been doing this? Probably around a year-ish. Okay, that's great. How much, by the way, do you charge to walk a dog uh it was originally five dollars an hour but our first client uh up to up to ten

dollars an hour over the winter because they wanted to keep us around so that's kind of become our main for everything i love this kid you're amazing i would raise my prices when i go to des moines though ten dollars let me tell you something i've never lived in iowa but i know people who live in Iowa. And when the winter comes, you might as well be at the North Pole. So if I'm walking Rover in the winter, that's $25 an hour right there. Right?

Okay. Anyway, I'm not with Rachel. I disagree with the mother hen here. You should be trying to expand. Yes, in seven minutes, it's better. When I heard all this, I'm thinking, they're going to drive 45 minutes to drive 45 minutes to do they ain't driving anywhere he's 14 and his partner's 13 the parent will be driving yes i know i know although i'll say this i i'd ride a bike seven to ten minutes uh made double that to ride a bike when i was your age i'd ride a bike i don't know if your

parents would let you do that but we need more of that to school no i never walked to school but i rode my bike everywhere when i was 14 we need more freaking young people in america riding their bikes to walk the dog you could ride your bike into the neighborhood just put the old kickstand down and i'm here to walk rover there is a slight problem with that we live down in a valley in the country and there are giant hills everywhere. So it's good for your heart and your legs. Good for your heart and legs. I think you're doing a great job. And I think if you guys get a couple more customers and you, and you, and you schedule it well, where it's convenient for the parent and your business partner and everything, I think it's great. I really the neighborhood i'm not yeah i'm not trying i was not trying to discourage the entrepreneur but

also i don't know there's a reality things the the things shift in life very quickly at 14 i love it you're only getting here and we got and i would say kip i'm i'm with with ken on this if they can put a face with who's doing the work i think it's really big i had i had three girls they called that they're called the three blonde babysitters. It was on their flyer. These three blonde girls, and they're about your age. They're 13,

came and they knocked on every door in our neighborhood and they're like, we're mother's helpers. We can come and help throughout the summer. And they were so sweet. And I was like, I almost just want you guys to come over. I'll pay you.

I'll pay you. So there's something about Kip. I think you guys, yes, I think it's a good, and that's a good move. Knock on the doors. Good for you, Kip. Good pay you. So there's something about Kip. I think you guys, yes, I think it's a good move. Knock on the doors. Good for you, Kip.

Every dog owner I know, including this guy, thinks our dog needs to be walked but doesn't really enjoy doing it that much. There you go. There's a need. So I have my teenagers do it. They don't get any money. They get sustenance. Shelter. They get shelterenance. Shelter. They get shelter and food and electricity.

All right. I love the young entrepreneur, Kip. Go for it, buddy. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is with me this hour, and we're here for you. 888-825-5225 is the phone number here to help

you win with your money. So you get some money questions. Hey, how do I budget? How do I keep more of it? How do I make more money? Happy to weigh in on some of those questions. And speaking of money, you know, we have been talking about this for a long, long time around Ramsey Solutions, helping a lot of people, and almost every money problem, in fact, not almost, every money problem on some level has a budget component to it. It just does. And we have created what we believe is the premier money budget tool there is, and we call it Every Dollar. And I know you're a big fan of Every Dollar as well. What makes it so effective in your mind? Yeah, so Every Dollar, it's a budgeting app. And I think one of a big fan of EveryDollar as well. What makes it so effective in your mind? Yeah, so EveryDollar, it's a budgeting app. And I think one of the things is the convenience of having an app on your phone, honestly,

because we go everywhere with our phones. And so to have everything right there, to get to it, to see your numbers, I think is one big thing. And then the second, just the way that we teach a zero-based budget and how to track expenses, how to give that we teach a zero-based budget and how to track expenses, how to give every dollar a name. I mean, all of that, you can walk through it on EveryDollar and your budget is there. And it's fantastic.

And there's great analytics. Once you've been doing it a while, you can go in and see, okay, where have we overspent here? Or how much have we spent on average with food? You can actually start to see your spending habits. And so Every and so every dollar it's incredible i actually tracked my transactions this morning ken i think it's it's great i mean we winston and i we use it every single i mean honestly every day i open it um for something to say okay how much do we have left here or there and it just gives you intentionality around your money i think that's the number one mistake people make with

their money is they're not intentional they They don't have purpose to it. So EveryDollar is that. So you can actually download EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play or go to everydollar.com. You can do slash Rachel, slash Ken. We'll be there. And to be able to,

for you to create your first budget and you can do that for free. So make sure you guys do that because seriously being purposeful with your paycheck, it's one of the best ways to get control of not just your income, but your entire money situation. All right, let's go to Natalie, who is waiting for us in Cedar Falls, Iowa. Today feels like an Iowa day. Natalie, how can we help? Well, I guess my question, it's kind of a long one, but to like sum it up, I have followed the Dave Ramsey baby steps. And basically, like, I am a huge budgeter.

I love staying on track. Like, I'm more frugal. I like a simple lifestyle. I enjoy working. So I have like an acreage that's fully paid off. And I have, you know, like the vehicles that are paid off. And I give writing lessons on the side and I work full-time, like at a full-time position. And then I also teach a lot. So I do a couple of kind of

different jobs, but kind of like, okay, it's like you always dream of kind of growing up and getting married, but I'm 32 and I'm kind of like, okay, I don't know if that will happen. And I really just want to live for Christ. And like, what does that look like? And then financially, where do I put my money? As far as like, if I don't get married, like where do you go ahead and invest that? And where do you put it? And like, where does it make the most sense? Cause I don't really want to slow down as far as like the speed that I'm going, but I don't know exactly what the best way is to like maximize resources and stuff at this point. All right. So hold on. I heard a couple things there, and I want to get to the heart of what this call is about.

Is this about investing your money, or is this about marriage, and can I get married? Because I'm hearing a couple themes here, and it's come up a couple times. Yeah, I don't know which direction to run with. What do you mean? Well, I feel a little bit burnt out of, okay, what am I saving for? You're trying to save for, I mean, a little bit like burnt out of like, okay, like what, like what am I saving for?

Like you're trying to save for like, I mean, I totally am like, okay, having a family sounds great. But like, then I'm like, do I really want that? Because at the same time, I feel like sometimes guys can't keep up with me and I'm like, okay, well, I don't want to slow down my life either. Hold on a second. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Have you had dating relationships?

Is there some history behind that last comment that the guy can't keep up with me or is this just all in your hypothetical based on how so stinking productive you are because let me just say this Natalie you got your stuff together I mean you're an impressive person but back to that comment is that coming from history or are you projecting that on yourself it totally comes from things that other people have told me whether like past relationships i've been in or just like family being like oh like you know you've achieved a lot so like it's gonna be hard to find somebody like that can keep and i don't think that it like i don't think that it should be that hard time out time out i'm doing a little digging here all right Your family's telling you this

or a dude or multiple dudes that you've been dating told you this. Give me the real, real. Both. So like, and so like sometimes, um, like really honestly, only like one or two guys that I was with that was just like, Oh, like, you know, you work a lot. And it was like, like, and so honestly, it's been guys that just don't want to work that hard. And I have dated guys before that do work really hard, so then it's never been an issue. Okay. But it's always been. No, no, stop. Stop.

That's what's going on. Just because you dated a couple duds doesn't mean that that's your situation. So I don't want to make this whole call about that, but I just kept hearing that pop up, Rachel, the marriage thing. And you're a go-getter and all that, but if you're dating duds, guys who don't want to work hard, then they don't have that. But let me ask, to me, the ultimate qualifying question. If you met the guy, this guy sweeps you off your feet, he works hard, he's successful, he's got a vision and a plan for his life like you do, do you want that? And do you want a family?

I think that's what I want. I think that's why I'm chasing what I'm chasing. I think it's like I want to make my family as solid as possible. I grew up very – we didn't have much growing up, not financially speaking, and so I think I want to make my life as stable as possible. Here's what's going on. I want to give that to the future. I'm going to bring Rachel in.

I'm going to stop talking with all my questions, but I think I'm hearing someone who's burning herself out because you don't think you'll ever have enough. And if the guy doesn't come along on the white horse or whatever it is girls your age think of these days, whatever the metaphor is, if the Prince Charming doesn't come in, am I going to have enough? If I don't have a family, will I have enough? And I think that all comes from your upbringing. And you're going to have to start to own this and go, I've got this massive fear about spending money or doing anything fun. And that's why I'm working all the time, because I'm just so afraid. Rachel, that's what I'm hearing. What do you hear? Yeah, I think that's totally fair.

I mean, yeah, nothing you said, Natalie, makes Natalie makes me think oh my gosh you're like in this dire situation and you need to be having three jobs and all of this right and again and if you enjoy it though and you're like you know I don't really have much else going on and so I enjoy this and I enjoy that and I'm gonna make money you know it's all about the motivation and that's what I think Ken's point was if the motivation is out of this kind of toxic unhealthy fear because I think spenders can get a bad rap of like oh my gosh they're so irresponsible that's my I'm a spender they're so irresponsible oh my gosh my gosh I think savers Natalie like you can also need to have a bad rap in a sense that since that that saving is not wrong obviously we are we are for saving we are for planning for the

future but there is a level where money becomes an unhealthy part of your life where it almost becomes a god yeah you're afraid to enjoy life yeah and you're you're chasing this number you're chasing this thing thinking okay once i get that i'm gonna feel okay but the problem is you'll get there and then you'll think uh i probably should do like one more year of that and And the finish line just keeps moving. So there is a contentment piece and that's not laziness or apathy But there is a a level of peace natalie I want you to have with your money and people don't have that peace When you're living paycheck to paycheck and you got twenty thousand dollars in credit card debt and you're you know Losing a job and no emergency fund like there's an unrest that money can cause

But your situation and I think ken went off on his questions, which was great. So I kind of forgot the beginning of your story of your situation specifically. But you're not in a dire financial place. No, I'm not at all. And I did buy a horse that was just a horse that I wanted to buy. And I spent quite a bit of money on it. I bought it just for myself. And so I'm going to show her this year.

And so that was totally, and like totally like it made sense. So yeah, so I think going forward, Natalie, I would, because you're debt free, right? And you have an emergency fund. Yeah, just to invest the way we teach. What's your housing situation? Do you own a home? I do.

And that's just kind of like, do I, like, I mean, I have three acres. I have an arena. Like, so I just, I really have the things that I want. But then it's like, okay, do I go a little bit bigger or what do I go back to? No, I think you're good. I think I keep investing and keep enjoying. You know, when you get to that point, giving more, saving more, and spending more is kind of the three buckets that you want to tap into. And I would do that, yeah, to enjoy. And I think that there are guys out there, Natalie,

that 100% would not be intimidated and would actually value and respect and love that about you. But can I also say, be careful not to try to marry somebody who's exactly the way you are with money. Well, yeah, not unrealistic expectations. Sure, everyone's got their stuff. You're going to end up in therapy,

no matter who you're married to. Right, Ken? Amen, amen, Kelly. No, I'm not raising my hand on that one. Staying away from that one. Stacy. Yeah, yeah. She's the one that needs the therapy, let's be honest.

All right, quick break. I'll call a therapist. This is The Ramsey Show. The Ramsey Show continues. We are continuing to take your calls and answer your questions about the challenges you're having with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. All three of those areas come into contact, and you want to be winning in all three areas,

and that's the focus of our conversation, you and your life. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. And let's get right back to the phones. Milwaukee, Wisconsin is where Drew is. Drew, how can we help? Hey, guys. Can you hear me all right? Yes, sir. Awesome. Now I'll get right into it. I'm getting married this December. And so January 1st, you know, 2025, our finances are going to combine.

I'm trying to figure out, because she's coming in midway through physical therapy school with $50,000 in student debt and $50,000 more left to pay. Should I be trying to pay down the debt after we're together or cash flowing the school? I can't do both. Okay, would it be cash flowing the school in january correct yeah i mean i would i would probably i would um look at cash flowing first and then going to pay off debt after that after she's graduated and everything yeah yeah i would even if that means the debt stays and they're at like seven percent interest rate so that I just let them sit there and grow. Yes, because the alternative is what?

Taking out a loan for 50 more and that's not what you want. Is there anything with... Yes, I guess my thought was just it would be paid down by then. Go ahead. How much do you have saved? About $35,000. Okay. So I could check that all towards the debt and then...

Yeah, no, I would... Oh, but... The $20,000 of that is going towards this wedding. Oh, okay. So $15,000. $15,000. Yes, I would... Yeah, I would put it towards tuition

and I would do what I could to figure out, hey, how do we save between now and then to cash flow the rest of that semester for her? Is it one more semester left? Will she be done in May? No, she's done in spring of 2026. So a couple of years still. Oh, okay. Okay. And the plan is just to continue to take out debt for that? Hers is, I guess mine now following your advice would be to cash flow the rest starting january yes she's got 50 000 left and he's saying do i cash flow that or do i pay down her existing she has a whole other year left of school so i'm like yeah so has your opinion changed um i mean i i don't is it realistic for you guys to cash flow this school?

It would be pinching pennies for sure. Okay, but you could. Expecting a little bit of a raise and an annual bonus. Okay. Yeah, on rice and beans. You could do it. Okay, then yeah, then I would put this towards. I would too, because she's going to come out earning money.

Yeah. And now we only have 50 to pay off instead of you know and i understand what you're saying i'll pay the 50 off and i'm getting rid of the interest payment but you know she's got a cash flow her way through this this is her professional direction so what's done is done let's avoid it going forward that's our take on yeah for sure i would i would not dig a bigger hole if i could yeah i would i would stay in the present and then when she graduates and like ken said she'll i mean what will she be making when she graduates, and like Ken said, she'll, I mean, what will she be making when she graduates? I know it'll be another two years, but.

Probably 75 to 85. Okay. That's fantastic. You can pay off 50 grand so fast. Yeah. It'll make your head spin. You really can. That's not a huge amount of money.

By then it'll be like 65, right? Because of the interest. Is it private loans, I guess, with master? Is it all due now or is it due at graduation? It's a mix and none of it's due now. But it is accruing interest. It is accruing interest. Is she able to...

Yeah, your monthly payments due, but accruing interest. Is she able to work while doing pt school full-time uh that's a whole other conversation um but i'll go with no oh oh i picked a scab there didn't i oh i'm sorry do you feel like in general though that you're you guys are in a good um like team aspect like direction wise with money as you're heading into this marriage yeah we're both savers for sure for sure we're both super cheap okay and both have but similar in values of a plan yeah but like value system wise meaning like um that we we have a plan we're working together we both want this we both

want to live debt free we both want you know i mean like those kind of values is that similar okay great perfect her idea would be the second she gets a salary we keep living how we are right now gotcha yeah right uh until all her salary yeah so yeah i mean honestly i would do that because if you continue to take on more debt to to Ken's point, it's going to continue to build more. You're going to have a larger amount with that 7% interest, right? Right. Well, I mean, so it's like I'm taking some off that's not, that before it accrues interest and the same exact is growing. So in my mind, that's 0% interest. So it stays at the same, but it doesn't grow versus if I cashflow it, the current amount just grows at 7%. I get that. About the numbers work out to me. Sure. Sure. Yeah. I think there's a, I think

there's a mental component to this of saying, Hey, this is our goal for her to get through school. And this 15 grand is going to give us a big jumpstart toward that tuition. Yeah. Um, to start, that's what I would do. Yeah. And, and. And let me just circle back one more time, Drew, because I appreciate you're coming at us with that. And that makes sense this way. But let me put it this way. You probably aren't going to be able to pay the 50 off in record time really quickly. It's going to take you how long if we went your route and paid off the 50 in the debt of the student loan? How long would that take you to pay it off? A year and a half. Same as it would take the cash loan, how long would that take you to pay it off? A year and a half,

same as it would take the cash flow, the new schooling. Right. My point is, is you're not getting away from the interest bug. It's still there. It's accruing while you're paying it off. So the point is, we don't want you digging a bigger hole. We're just going to stick with that, taking on more debt in this situation. I'd rather her work some. I know I brought up a very sensitive subject there. Yikers. But that's the reality. She ought to at least consider some hours, if nothing else, to help you with some of the interest payments and start paying it down a little bit. Yeah, I mean, I agree, but I can't.

No, you can't I know brother You can suggest it And she's going to go Nope I want to study And this I know this is You probably know this Drew

But I wouldn't do anything Until after you guys are married Yes Until after December Yeah obviously Awesome perfect I'm married in December What's the date in December?

28th Oh like a New Year's We're the 19th. A December anniversary is a fantastic one. Kelly, our producer, is December 2. It's so great. You'll be so happy. What do you think about three days after Christmas? Why is that so fantastic?

Well, I don't know. I just think December, I mean, after Christmas is a little different than ours. We were the 19th, but everyone's just happy in December. Everyone's just happy. You go to your anniversary dinner out. It's all festive I don't know, it's great So congratulations, Drew I think it's fantastic

I would put this $15,000 towards tuition coming up I would cash flow it And then when she graduates You guys attack the student loan debt How much money in total you got saved? $35,000 But after the wedding, $15,000 Yeah, boy, I'm going to be Mr. Unpopular right now.

Are you going to lower the wedding budget? $20,000, not... I'm going to say... See, I would do that if I hadn't already paid like half of it in deposit. Oh, okay. Because I was going to say, if I was in your situation, I'd go down to the courthouse, get the marriage certificate, a little private thing, then do a big celebration

after we paid off the debt. Womp womp. Well, hindsight 2020. I know, bro. Hey, listen, I had to at least throw it out. You can say for a wedding and have a wedding. I just said you separate the ceremony from the actual moment. I hear you.

Now, I would not go into your, this is not you, Drew, I'm not saying this about you, but to America, I would not, or the world, I would not go into debt for a wedding but if you have money set aside i mean you know for the wedding i know enjoy the wedding but i'm just gonna say that's a female point of view every dude in america and around the world is with me you go through all this planning all the stress meetings about stuff we don't give a crap about you go through a ceremony that you barely remember anything except for the vows. It's true. And you're just trying not to pass out. It's true.

And then you walk down the aisle. You have a moment about two minutes before anybody in the wedding party gets you and you go, what was that all about? I just want the honeymoon. I had a great, I had a fun wedding. I did too. Stacey would be so upset with that point of view.

But I'm just like, on behalf of every dude out there. It is a tradition that I think is great. Now I would be so upset with that point of view. On behalf of every dude out there. It is a tradition that I think is great. Now I would not go into debt for it, but I think it's a great tradition if you have the money saved. I just know how stressed out he is. Drew, you're a good man. They're awesome. They're all going to do great. They're all going to do great.

We need to get her on the phone to talk about this working while it's school business. That's the call America needs to hear. I'm just telling you. All right, we'll argue about it during the break. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America.

You're joining us here on The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. And we are now joined by a very special guest, longtime friend of the organization, and what I believe is truly a great American,

here to talk about a really cool American thing. He is Mr. Dirty Jobs, Mr. Mike mr mike rowe mike welcome to the ramsey show always a privilege always an honor there it is folks the voice uh we're gonna do our best just let him talk as much as possible my whole goal is you're writing children's books now yeah you should have him voice be the the children's audio book we had a nine-year-old my nine-year-old daughter did it i don't know what's cuter that's well so it comes down to a nine-year-old. My nine-year-old daughter did it. I don't know. What's cuter? Mike or the nine-year-old. I don't know.

I'm so tired of competing with nine-year-olds. There's always a nine-year-old girl out there trying to take my job. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. All right. Fun stuff. So, Mike, here's why you're here. You are somebody who loves this country.

You love history. You love the way this country works, good, bad, and ugly. And you've got a new project. It's fun for a guy who produces a lot of TV. Now you're getting into the movie business. Tell us what is going on. Why getting in the movie business? Look, it's another happy accident, honestly.

I mean, every good thing that's happened to me in the last 30 years has been a Forrest Gump-ian kind of misadventure. And this happened because I started writing stories eight years ago in the style of Paul Harvey for my podcast. Those stories were turned into a TV show, and now nine of them have been adapted for this movie. If you don't know the Paul Harvey format, it was called The Rest of the Story. And it was such a great way to learn something you didn't know about somebody you do. So these are mysteries. They're all super patriotic in nature.

They're all stitched together with the trip to our capital, where I visit some of the memorials and monuments that honor some of the people that are in the movie. But ultimately, it's a film called Something to Stand For, and I did it because I'm hoping that there's still some things in our country that people on either side of the aisle can look to and agree. You know, we have to talk to each other again, and I'm convinced that there's still a few things that we can all look at and say, yeah, I'd stand for that. Yeah. Mike, for you, because I've followed some of your stuff,

and I feel like the way you present things and the way you treat people and the way you go about things, you can't argue it, right? I think there's a lot of kindness in that. I hope. And so when you say that, when you're like, gosh, I feel like that there's something that we can both agree on, both sides of the aisle, do you feel like you've seen glimpses of that just by talking about this movie and other things in life? Because we just need hope. I mean, we're obviously in an election year. We won't go crazy politics here in the segment, but just in general, you just see the divide more and more when it heats up like this. But for you, this message of hope, I think, is really key. And do you see that, that it is possible?

Sure. I mean, Dirty Jobs wasn't a polemic, but when I look back at those old episodes and a lot of the other stuff that I've worked on, it feels hopeful simply because politics isn't in it. You know, if you're in a sewer working with a sewer inspector, the first thing that's going to come up is probably not the policy regarding this, that or the other thing. Right. So, look, I think today the problem is our our politics has infected our patriotism. And these two things, they have nothing to do with each other, not really. And I mean, I'll tell you, in 1998, 70% of Americans identified themselves as extremely or intensely patriotic. Today, that number is 38%. Oh, wow. So what happens to a country when the patriotism starts to gently bleed out of the body politic?

Under a 35-year-old, the number is closer to 18%. So we have to figure out a way to disagree with the other side, but not in an anti-American way. There's too many. I didn't make this movie for those who are convinced the country is a rotten place. I made it because of them. I want the rest of the people to see that there is still a shocking amount of common ground. And if we can come together on those elements in our shared past and agree with those things, who knows?

Maybe we can stop fighting about the headlines. You're listening to the voice of Mike Rowe here on The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins us. And Mike is here to talk about a new film. And this is a special release. He'll talk about that in a little bit. It's called Something to Stand For.

And it's only going to be out for a short amount of time. More on that in a little bit. Mike, when you look back on this, you talk about the stories that are all mysteries and they all have a thread that combines with you being there in washington dc uh one of the things i learned from you earlier today is there was a an unscripted moment which has happened a lot in your career uh you know which is what's so beautiful about what you do uh but it occurred to me when you were sharing it with me that it may have been one of your favorite parts of the filming. Talk about that unscripted moment. Yeah. And honestly, I hadn't

given it much thought until you brought it up. But we were talking about the difference between making a TV show like Dirty Jobs, where all of the cameras are basically behind the scenes cameras, right? We never stopped rolling. We never did a second take. There was no script. There was no casting. There was none of that. It was an honest look at a day on the job. Well, movies are the opposite of that. Movies are highly scripted. And the stories in these movies I wrote in a very deliberate, very intentional way.

And so that's fun, but it's a different set of muscles. And so we were filming in the capital and i was setting up for a shot you know there was the lights were just so and everything was placed just right and i was going to walk in and say something extraordinarily profound you know and uh and i and i glanced over and there were uh an honor flight was coming in right so like a dozen old men in wheelchairs, some with walkers, their families are with them, the volunteers. And I could see at a glance, these guys are just overwhelmed, you know? And the point of this movie really more than anything

is to just elevate a sense of gratitude. And everything I was trying to do on purpose in the film was coming together great, but all of a sudden I'm looking at this real thing. And I said to the director, I'm going to go over here for a minute. Let me bring the cameras. And I'm like, what are you doing, dude? We're trying to make a movie. What are you doing? And I went over and I said hello to some of these guys.

And I met a guy named Andy Michael. He reminded me of my dad. He was 91 years old, same age, fought in the same battles in korea and he had never been to the memorial and he was sitting there in his wheelchair in front of this wall of stars telling me what it meant to be here with friends and and family you know and when you see tears roll down a face like that look i mean you'd have to be crazy not to find a way to put that in the movie and And so we did. And so in the end, this is not a documentary.

This is not a big narrative. There are 300 actors in it, but they don't speak to each other. They're just there to bring my stories to life. And now there's also an old man named Andy Michael. That's in it. Who's there because he loves the country too. And even though he can't walk, he will give us something to stand for. That's amazing. That's so, it's in it. Who's there because he loves the country too. And even though he can't walk, he will give us something to stand for. That's amazing.

That's so, it's so powerful. So out of all the stories in the movie, what's, which one's your favorite? So this is tough, Rachel, right? Because the stories are all mysteries. And if I tell you, right. So give me like a, cause I don't know much about it. So when you're saying all this, I'm like, Hey, what does this mean? Is it, is it historical past presidents?

Is it like, give me a- What can you tell us about a certain maybe mystery? I can tell you that at its heart, the key to this format is to tell you something you do not know about someone you do. So I'll tell you very quickly, one of the stories we tell has to do with a very famous person who was challenged to a duel, a deadly duel. He had written something in the newspapers under a pseudonym that caused great offense. Great offense.

I know who this is. Pistols. All you history people over here. I'm like, dad, pistols at dawn. Pistols at dawn is what's required. Okay. Pistols at dawn is what's required, okay? But our challengee knows something about the protocol of dueling, which is the challenger doesn't get to set the terms. The challengee does.

And so this person, challenged to a duel, says pistols at dawn. No, that's not how we're going to do it. We're going to do it with broadswords in a pit. So they dig a pit pit and they draw a line and these two men face off with broadswords. And what happens next literally changes the trajectory of the country. I would even say that as a result of that moment, we would not be sitting here.

What? But for it. How about that for a tease? I'm going to be Googling, Mike. Yes, he is. No Googling, no cheating. Go see the movie. No cheating. You'll love it.

By the way, the movie is something to stand for. It is about our country in an election year. When you don't know who you're going to vote for, you may not like who you're voting for or whatever, vote for this movie. Go see it. It's in theaters June 27th through July 4th. Is that right? It's a special release. That is correct. Go see it. Something to Stand For. Mike Rowe, thanks for being with us. Somethingtostandfor.movie. Check out the trailer. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll love it. Welcome to the Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships.

I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. And our phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. All right, partner, you ready to go? Ready to get to the phones? Ready, partner. Partner?

I love that that threw you off. Yeah. You know. Yeah. I didn't say, like, podna. Like we're on a ranch. Cowboy. I feel like I'm cowgirl.

No, you're my radio partner. No, but I am. I'm ready. It's going to be a great hour, Ken. Okay. I can tell she's ready now. Feeling my bones. I'm glad I woke you up before we went to Jeremy, who is in Anaheim. Jeremy, how can we help? Oh, yes. Hi, Ken. Okay, I can tell she's ready now. I'm glad I woke you up before we went to Jeremy, who is in

Anaheim. Jeremy, how can we help? Oh yes, hi Ken, Rachel. Thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's going on? Hey, glad you're here, Ken. It's a work-related career question, or maybe more of a just some guidance. We're moving out of state in a couple of years, and I'm going to be taking probably a significant A decrease, and also probably in a whole new industry. It's not a new industry, but it's going to be a new job. I have a niche job here in Southern California, and where I'm moving, you know, I'm going to have to essentially build myself back up, I believe. And I'm just a little concerned and confused because it's been about 12 years I've been self-employed, working from home. And I'm just, I'm scared, I guess. Sure. Well, will you be self-employed in the new state?

I'd like to be, but I don't think that's going to start out that way. I'm in the real estate industry. What do you do? I work for a group of investors. We buy and sell distressed homes, foreclosures. What part do you play in that? I understand that business, but what are you doing day to day? Okay. I am a real estate agent. I do list some of the properties, but I'm actually, I coordinate with all of our realtors all over Southern California. I do the title work. I do the pre-work to buy the properties that we're going to end up, you know, rehabbing and reselling. Okay. And so you don't believe that you can go into, and that you said you're self-employed, but yet you work for them. so is this like a contract basis that you offer your services so you work for yourself but they

pay you for your time yeah there's a it's a group of three investors i do uh property management accounting and also i handle the like i said the trustee sales the uh acquisitions what i'm trying to understand and i hope this helps you as we walk through this fear, is the fear is all about this big risk financially and starting over. Anytime change is involved, fear is always the issue. Change is what's driving the fear. So what I'm trying to help you understand is how much change are we actually making? And can some of these changes be good? That's what I'm trying to coach you through. So what state are you moving to? And tell us specifically why you don't believe that you can start out a little bit better rate of pay than you think you're going to.

Give us the details. Sure. Yeah. So I'm in Orange County california and we'll be moving to uh nampa idaho which is just outside of boise boise and you know i i got into this 12 years ago as an assistant to one of the real estate agents and i've just worked myself up every year uh to where i'm at now. And, you know, I just don't know. What do you make now? Right now, last year, my taxes was $131,000. Okay. And what's behind the two-year timeline?

You're calling us today knowing we're moving to Boise or outside of Boise in two years. What's driving that? It's my stepson here. He's going to be finishing high school in two years. I love love that you got a two-year on-ramp here i'd be planning several visits to that area and i would be looking at at figuring out answers to the things i currently don't have answers to and i think the answers you're looking for is how do i transfer all of this experience and knowledge that I have over the last 12 years into doing something similar in Boise? Am I right? Or is it a completely different thing you're looking to do? I mean, I'd love to do this same thing.

Jeremy, not to interrupt you, and I could be misunderstanding part of the business model of this, but I do know some people that have investors that are actually the investors live in california and they're buying homes in nashville and they're doing stuff and they have a guy on the ground in nashville could you use the investors still and just do the same thing but do it in boise and find i mean the deals will look different probably um money wise but could you still say hey i still want to do this role but um you know boots on the ground here in boise and i can find a town and you know go to town if you will you know yeah boots on the ground here in Boise and I can find a town and, you know, go to town, if you will.

You know, yeah, that's great. I'm glad you brought that up. And yes, I have a network here and my investors actually don't know that I'm going to be leaving in two years, but they have talked about doing stuff in Arizona and Nevada, you know, other spots. So, yeah, my goal would be to go there and start it up, you know, obviously on a smaller scale. Totally. I mean, grow it there. Yeah. I mean, one of our great friends literally came from Reno and his investor was a Reno, California guy. And he's doing deals in Nashville with this friend of ours and using, you know what I mean? So I'm like, there's a chance that your connections

are there. So what were you planning? That's, that's Rachel's idea. And you've kicked that around. Love that idea, by the way. But what were you planning to do that was going to be such a big pay cut in Boise? Well, I was going to get my real estate license there and probably start out maybe in property management just to get something consistent going as I build up out there and hopefully use my network from here or meet people out there. Right. And so you're anticipating based on that kind of a job and you've looked it up and that's where you've come up with this number where you're taking a sizable hit. What are you anticipating that actual salary being based on your current money? At half maybe six yeah jeremy no wonder you're scared i i think

you've got two years and a lot of visits and a lot of research on the internet to see how transferable your current skill set and current experience is i i don't think you need to be settling i think this is a bad move and i I would literally challenge you, if you accept that you're going to go to outside Boise and you're going to have to start making 60 or 70 a year, then I think you've undershot your potential. And I think you've got some work to do, but I think this is the wrong narrative. You started this call off with the wrong narrative and the wrong question. You know, it needs to be, how do I transfer my experience and skill set, Ken, to a new area? That's the question. And I actually think you know the answer to that. You got to find out who's doing something similar to Rachel's point to what you're doing now. It

doesn't have to be apples to apples, but certainly we start in real estate and certainly you've got experience and skill set in real estate. I'd be starting there. Not, well, I'm going to have to take a property management job. Talk to your current investors and say, Hey, y'all want to keep doing deals in Boise, you know? Yeah. I think you got a couple of options there, but you got to dig a little bit more and have the conversation that Rachel's talking about. You with us? I am. Yes. Yeah, definitely. Don't settle. Now listen, if that ends up being what the reality is, then you and your wife and family are making a decision to leave Southern California where salaries are higher, but so is cost of

living. And so, you know, you got to look at all, but you've got two years to figure this out. I think you've got plenty of time to figure out how you go from $130 to $130, or maybe $130 to more in a place where that money goes a lot farther. By the way, that economy is booming out there. It is one of the hottest places to move, so I think you're going to be okay. I think you've got some more homework to do. And set your sights a little higher. We're not getting on you. We're on Team Jeremy. We're cheering for you. going to be okay. I think you've got some more homework to do. And set your sights a little higher. We're not getting on you. We're on Team Jeremy.

We're cheering for you. You got this. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Excited that you're with us. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Hey, you want to move up on the

ladder so you can make more money, get out of debt faster, save money? We're here to help. You want to knock out the debt, get it out of your life? We're here to help. That is what we're discussing today. It's your life, your money. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is joining me this hour, 888-825-5225. Let's go to Salt Lake City next. And that's where Ryan is. Ryan, how can we help? Hi, Ken. Hi, Rachel. I have a question for you. It's kind of got an ethical component and a financial legal component. Okay. So a couple of years ago, my wife and I took a trip to Europe. We rented a car. The quote of the car was about $1,200. And some plans changed when we were there. We decided to return early. We spoke with the company. They said we'd get about $300 off of the initial quote.

So eventually we returned it. And the final charge was for the full amount, but in addition to that, there was a second charge for about $2,400. So at this point, it's a $3,600 six-day car rental. My gosh. Obviously. Was it a Maserati? What was the extra charge? Well, it was unclear.

So they said there was like a one-way fee, like an international, because we return it from a different country than we originally planned to. So it just didn't make any sense. And so we tried to contact them. They kind of just like marked our ticket as resolved without even responding to us. We couldn't get in contact with them on the phone or anything. So eventually I just did a chargeback on my credit card for a partial chargeback for the amount that we actually owed, which is around $800, right?

So about six months later, they sent us into collections for that, and they tried to come after us for it. We finally got them to, like, review the case and see what was going on. And they found that instead of charging us $200 for the one-way fee, they charged us $2,000. An extra zero. That's important. Yeah, which is kind of a big deal. So it still doesn't account for the total difference.

Like, there's still something off there, but it's closer, right? So they said, okay, we'll send you an invoice for the difference. At this point, I was ready to pay whatever they asked within reason just to be done with it. Sure. But instead of sending us an invoice, they ended up canceling both of the initial charges, so now we paid zero. So I was done with them at this point. I canceled the credit card so they wouldn't have access to it or anything.

They're just incompetent. I held onto that money for about six to eight months ready for when they came back for it and they never did. Finally, about 10 months later, they came back into collections for the full 3,600. So my question is kind of ethically, do I need to settle this debt with this company? And then I know you're not international debt collections experts, right? But what are kind of the legal financial implications of not paying it?

Do you have anything in writing? I have lots of things. So a lot of it is it is written down. So I was going to say, I mean, because how much is it now that they're asking for in the collections? $3,600. $3,600. And have you contacted them since that's come up? Because, like, your point is, I'm like, I can't tell if they're, like, evil people trying to steal your money or if they're incompetent.

And they just have no attention to detail. Their admin processes are just terrible, and you just kind of keep getting the runaround, right? So which one do you feel like it is? It's the latter. I won't say their name, but if you were to go to Europe to rent a car, it would be one of the top companies you would look at. I mean, honestly, for $3,600, I'm probably wrapping back around to the company again and saying, guys, you messed up again. Here's what you said in the last email here and here. I'm not paying this.

I'll pay this amount and we'll get it settled. But you know what I mean? I would probably just kind of keep, I would probably keep fighting it because, again, it's more incompetence than them like, you know, people trying to come after you. I'm with Rachel, but I wouldn't fight it. It seems to me that based on what you all told us, there was a point at which they acknowledged. The question is, do you have in writing when they acknowledged that the charge was $200, not $2,000? I do, but that still doesn't account for the total difference.

And so that's what worries me is that, like, they found one mistake, but there's something else in there because it should be way less still than what they're asking. Right. And so, okay, I get that. And then do you have what the original agreement was for? Do you have that in writing? Huh? I do. I do.

But it's also complicated because it was in euros. And so there's the exchange rate and that's changed over time. I get it. I get it. I'm going somewhere with this. Because I'm with you. You want this out of your life. Okay?

Right. And so this back and forth, back and forth, I mean, this could be like Groundhog Day for the next 30 years, it sounds like. These people are such idiots. I mean, this is just moronic. So I would try to come to a number based on the original rental agreement. Rachel, check me on this. I'm just trying to common sense my way through this based on the the the original rental agreement the fact that they acknowledge they already just mysteriously slapped two thousand dollars on it when it should

have been 200 i would come down to a number and i would go and i would write all this out and and like painstakingly like what you really do oh right what you what you think you was twelve hundred dollars they're going to take 300 off it's 900 then the 200 charge because you returned in a different country which is fair that one-way rental thing that's a real thing it's real so then put that together it's 1100 bucks and i would pay that and say we are willing to pay this it certainly can't be any more than this if anything it's less but i'm so tired of dealing with you all that i'll do i mean i'd come to some conclusion honestly to ryan i think dealing with the collection people because naturally you can settle collections once the debt's in collections you can usually get

pennies on the dollar that's actually a great point you're saying deal directly just do the collections and and be done with it but have in writing again all of this in writing that's so the company comes after you ethically there's nothing on you you're like no no I I paid I paid it I paid what I owed, and this is what it was, and this is what we settled with the collections company. So that's what I would do. That's a great point. Stop dealing with the company direct. Just deal with the collections people. Go, sorry. And you guys can pounce in. If I could follow up on the ethical component, I mean, it's two years since that happened, and so that's kind of out of our

budget at this point. And we could get the money together if we wanted to but you know like ethically am i obligated to pay this company that that doesn't know what they're doing and you know cost me all this time question rachel what say you she's pondering i i mean i i lean yeah i lean yes i think you use the car you you use the service for that yeah well you use the service i mean you you i mean i'm with you you are there is an ethical like you use the service you pay for that i know but nothing more i mean if it's like 30 bucks or something at some i don't know pastry shop or something and after three years you're probably like it's fine but i mean it's a couple of times the only reason i okay tell you the only reason i sat there and I looked at you to see what you were going to say is,

you could make a case for the service being so horrible that a legitimate manager would go, we've caused you more stress and blood pressure. We're going to wipe the whole thing off. All right. I got my wife's salmon salad taken off the bill the other night on a takeout order because it was 20 minutes longer than what they told me well there you showed up i said your gal just called me and said the salmon that everything was ready she said it'd be ready in two minutes it's been 20 i didn't even raise my voice i was very kind but i was like this is crazy yeah and the manager said you know what sir i apologize we'll take the salmon salad and that's what the company do but this company can't

they can't no i know i'm making a point that i see where he's, and that's what the company do, but this company can't. They can't see their way. I'm making a point that I see where he's at. But that's the merchant giving it. That's their call. But I can see why this guy's done with this rental car company. Yeah, totally, totally. I think you would just not regret

paying it because you used the service, but paying your fair share well here's a follow-up question rachel uh ryan if you're still with us i mean he doesn't have it in his budget now what yeah then y'all need to yeah i probably wouldn't make a move until i had the cash and maybe and i don't think it's unethical to talk to the collection so that point and pay even less like if they would settle for less i would that's that's totally i don't think it's unethical to kick the can down the road and some yourself ryan meaning you pay it because you owe it yeah but i kick the can down a little bit if it took me six months to save the money i go well

i'm gonna oh i'm sorry i forgot to get to that email and i'm sure as long as it doesn't like screw up your credit or like mess something up with you guys financially but mess sorry ryan not fun yikes not fun and if that's the only thing i don't like about international travel is i get a little nervous about getting jerked around a little bit when you don't live in that country all right travel horror stories we should we should have a whole segment on those. That would actually be a great segment. If you've been ripped off, Kelly Daniel is saying, what is the email? Really quick. Sorry.

Dave on air. Dave on air. Yeah. Dave on air at RamseySolutions.com. The Ramsey Show continues. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Rachel Cruz is here. I'm Ken Coleman, and we are here for you. Let's get right to the phones. Jasmine is going to lead us off in Los Angeles. Jasmine, how can we help?

Hi, good afternoon. So I'm training to be a mental health therapist and I'm about 65% through my master's in counseling program. I'm 30 about spending it because one it will wipe out my savings and two more importantly I'm starting to have some fear about my earning potential in this career path. I spoke to several licensed therapists in my area, and I asked them about their careers, and then I tactfully asked them about their incomes, and it varied between $50,000 to $70,000 with one person making what seemed like $90,000.

And the majority of these therapists were married. And the one single person that I spoke to said that her finances were really, really tight. And so I feel stuck because my professors tell me that I'm really gifted in counseling and that I could help a lot of people. And I believe that. And I'm also really concerned about the practical side, like making enough money in this field and someday buying a house. So I'm trying to figure out how I can make this work financially as a single person. What are you doing for a living as you're in school right now? And how much are you making? Yes, I've been actually in school full-time. But before that, I worked in higher education. And what were you making? I was making about $75,000.

Okay. And so how are you paying your bills? Or if you don't have any bills, how are you living if you're a full-time student? I'm a full-time student, and then I have several nannying positions. So that helps me with rent, and then I've just been paying tuition with my savings. Okay. And do you have a car? I do have a car, yes. Is it paid for? It is paid for, yes.

And so what would you say you're nannying if we were to just run an exercise on a spreadsheet? The amount of money you're making every month as a nanny to pay your basics while you're a full-time student, how much is that a month? $2.3. $2.3? $2,300. Yes. Okay. $2,300. All right. So here's what's interesting. You're managing to stay afloat while being a full-time student just on nannying. Right. And the fact that you have the money saved to be able to get through school and not go into debt, it feels like you've got something that you're afraid of that you don't need to be afraid of. I mean, you're not going

to make $2,300 a month. Okay. And so I know you've done the homework. I love that you've talked to other therapists, but the other issue is your zip code. And if it were me and I wanted to help people, I wouldn't live in a very expensive zip code when I was starting out at something. I'd go somewhere else in the country. I don't know if that's on the table for you, but I guess I'm trying to poke holes in your fear. I'm not challenging you. Jasmine, I think all the things you're feeling are real. I'm not in any way discounting them. Please hear me say that. But I'm poking holes in your fear, and your fear isn't dealing with any kind of evidence right now. Okay?

You are managing to stay afloat, nannying. Imagine if you were in a thriving practice and built your way up and eventually had your own practice. And you don't go into debt, and you have no debt right now, correct? Yeah, and that's what I'm afraid of. I mean— Afraid of what? Being in school full-time and working the type of hours, it's like 70 hours. How much longer do you have left, Jasmine? I have a year and a half left.

Okay, so this time in December of 25, you'll graduate. Is that right? Sorry. No, because I have practicum. It'll be in 2026. Right. Okay. And so again, what are you afraid? You're afraid of the nannying plus? Can I ask this? Is the nannying, just what you're making on nannying, Jasmine, is that keeping you afloat or are you still dipping into savings too? I'm dipping into savings. So how much of that, how much of that is it? Are you dipping in? Probably around 800, $900. So an extra thousand a month. Okay. That's a little, okay. I was, that's why I was asking the question.

Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think what's hard about that specific career path and is is you have to be in the chair like it's it's you you don't get to like you know I mean it is it is you that is going to be the one um and so there's only so many hours a day that you can practice right I mean you could go 10 hours a day if you wanted 8 to 8 p.m but but there is a limit there because of that now I think where the growth can happen is

what Ken said you kind of get a little bit creative and do you start your own practice have therapists under you you know that kind of thing right in the future and that's where your income could grow but for the immediate the immediate need that you have while in school and with this I mean like yeah it's I mean something's got to give because if you're dipping into the savings, that's the savings that you're going to use to keep you afloat tuition wise. So you're either going to have to pause for six months, Jasmine,

which no one likes to do that while in school and, and save up again and just work a lot and have a big chunk that to float your way through tuition and lifestyle, the remainder, you know, year and a half left of school or find a way to up your hours as we speak. But there, you know, year and a half left of school, or find a way to up your hours as we speak. But there, I mean, it's probably gonna have to be one or the other because I, you have

to have this other cash for your, for your tuition. Right, right. Jasmine, how much do you love the idea of sitting across from somebody and meeting them in the middle of their pain and helping them with healing and transformation? I... A little part of me is... A part of me really wants to, and then a part of me is maybe a little bit nervous about being able to do it well

full-time day after day meaning meaning the trauma and dealing with the heaviness of that day in and day out right yeah yeah okay yeah because I think there's okay that's a whole different thing and I didn't expect to get that from you. I just wanted to gauge how much you want to do this type of role. Because if you aren't willing to suffer through it, and suffer takes on a wide range of things. The reason that we talk about passion when we talk about loving work is because passion actually means to suffer. That's the root word. And so it's been referred to that for a long time. And so there's some meaning there. And here's the thing. If you don't think it's something that you can deal with,

it's okay to press pause and it's okay to go, you know what, I'm this far in, I've got to think long-term. Now, the only thing I don't want you to do is let the fear of money, because I think we've poked enough holes in that, I hope, because I think you can do quite well financially in that role. Can you do well in Los Angeles or do well enough to live with margin? I don't know, but that's a zip code issue, not an occupation issue. But what I'm hearing now is some serious, serious doubt, which is worth exploring. So the question becomes, is the doubt you're feeling,

is that because you don't believe something good can happen? In other words, you don't think you're good enough or you're strong enough. And I would get some real help there. And you know where to go get that and get some real feedback. Cause it sounds to me like your professors think you're really bright um but but if you don't think you're built for it and wired for it that's okay too yeah you need to take ken's assessment jasmine when you get off the phone yeah i want to give it to you i'm curious i'm going to give you the get clear assessment i want you to take it jasmine and i i think it's going to drive at the what motivates jasmine and if it matches up with this then then I think there's a way. But if for some reason

you don't think you can cut it, you don't have to go through another year and a half just because you started. Rachel, that's a big issue in today's world. It's a lot. Press pause.

Don't spend another dime. You've got some money in the bank. She made $75,000 before. Don't just go through a master's program because you started it. That's right. Only go through it if you program because you started it. That's right. Only go through it if you're going to use it and you have to have it. And it has the ROI on it.

Jasmine, hang on the line. We're going to get you the get clear assessment in the book, find the work you're wired to do. Quick read, quick assessment. It could give you some perspective. Hang on the line. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me in studio. Our scripture of the day is from James 4, verse 3. When you ask, you do not receive because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on pleasures.

And then our quote of the day from Art Laffer, I've never heard of a poor person spinning himself into prosperity, let alone I've never heard of a poor person taxing himself into prosperity. Gotta love a good tax and spin quote. It's right up my alley there. Anti-taxes, folks. Anti-taxes. Marissa is up in Vancouver, British Columbia, a place that I want to go to, but have never been. Marissa, how can we help? Hey, thanks so much for taking my call. And yeah, it's a, they call it the most beautiful place on earth, but it's also the most expensive place in Canada to live. Yeah. So, um, I'm 28 years old and I've saved $200,000 for a down payment, and I would really like to take that step.

But I have two options that I'm considering, and they're very different, and I am stuck and would like your opinion on which one you would choose. Okay, here we go. Give us the details on option one first. Okay, so option one, my mom sent me a listing for a house a week ago and I haven't really been looking seriously, but, um, basically it's a detached home on a quarter or on three quarters of an acre. Um, it's behind a provincial park, uh, in an area that's a lot, it's a lot more rural. So, uh, it's $720,000 and, um, it's very rare to be able to find a detached home within

about two hours, three hours radius of where I live for under a million dollars. So it could be a really great opportunity. Um, I work from home, so the idea of being more rural doesn't really, it's not an issue for me. And I just, I love the house. It would be absolutely perfect for me. It's older, but that's fine. I just, I had such a good feeling when I looked at it. Option two.

Option two. Option two. My parents have offered me the opportunity to build a second house on their property. My parents own two and a half acres. That's a lot closer to town. And my dad is a construction professional. So he would be able to do a lot of the legwork himself. That would save us a lot of money. And they expect that the build would cost $400,000. And then I would pay for the build, and then we would work something out that I would get. That value of the property would end up in my name. So I think we worked it out, and if I built on their property for the $400,000,

I'd put the $200,000 down and then have a mortgage for $200,000, and I would own about 18% of their property. My conflict is that being able to build on my parents' property means I would only have to have a mortgage for $200,000, and that lowers the amount of interest that I'd have to pay significantly. And I think I could probably paying it for the next 30 years and that interest is going to amount to a lot more money in the long run. Okay, so first and foremost, the last comment, you're like,

I'm going to be paying it for 30 years. No, you're not. You can pay this down faster than that. Okay, so just just have hope in that um here's where i i i'm gonna do option one and i'm gonna tell you why you're when people build on family members property there is a point that you end up getting stuck there because there is a you know know, are you married? I am dating someone, but I am making this decision independently.

Sure, sure, sure. But I'm just saying, you guys get married, you have kids, he transfers jobs, and suddenly mom and dad have strangers living on their property who are buying your house. And do mom and dad want that? And it starts to the relational aspect. So if you do option two, number number one i would have a legal document and having new property lines drawn and that's going to be better for resale because if someone else if you have to move one day someone

else is going to come in and be like well i don't know there's some document that they're saying 18 percent of the land but it's some people we don't know it's the girls the girls parents and if it's you know part of the part of the biggest issue is that we're not able to subdivide okay so i would be permanently tied to their property yep so for resale for resale yeah that makes it really difficult and the resale the reason i say that though marissa is i want freedom for you in your life emotionally this isn't the financial discussion and there is something that i hear from people when they live on family property sometimes it works so let me say that there's a percentage that it works and it's fine. But there's also a level of, oh my gosh, I have this guilt now

because eight years later, we're moving to America. Like, I don't know what I'm going to, I don't know what I'm going to do. Mom and dad, no one's going to buy this home because there's no prop. Like it really messes up the future. Financially, it makes so much sense. I get it. But I think it attaches you to your parents. And even if they're great people and all of it, there is something there. It's a big portion of your net worth

that is tied to this. And there's an emotional element. Can I ask real quick on this point? Rachel's making a very good point. Do you have siblings? I have one younger brother. And I think that makes it a little more complicated too. And Will's and then she's got some of the property. I'm with Rachel

on this one. I'm just curious, what do you want to do? When you called us, which way were you leaning before you said, I want your take? I change it based on the hour. But the problem is that this other property that I'm interested in, it is unique. It's been on the market for a while. It won't be the easiest to sell either because it takes a special person to want to live where it is. Yeah, but that's not attached to no property. It's not attached to my parents' property. And I also have to be, I mean, the thing is that my parents have said that if I wanted out for any reason that they would buy me out. Like they have other money that they could buy me out um so who would live and buy me out and they rent it out

then they have to pay capital gain tax on that income and my parents will then be retired and then that's going to impact their pension so it does it does get really messy and I do have a sibling um so I need to consider my parents and what happens if they die it's a mess and how the property is split yep yeah you're asking all the right questions and remember this marissa dave said this on a show recently i was like that's good talk about all the deeds this is everything from you know divorce death uh addiction drugs i mean like like i don't know all the messiness of life that can happen when you're in a financial deal with someone,

living proximity, your home, I mean, all of it. So yeah, if you guys... I have a deeper question, I think. I think we're going in a different direction. Marissa, I'm just curious. If the option one house was the same price as the mom and dad situation, would you even be thinking about it no i would choose the option one all right let me ask you another thing what if another house

showed up 30 days from now that was closer to town or whatever whatever and it wasn't some old thing and it was in roughly the same price which which one would you be interested in, option one or this new opportunity? So I think that's what's really attractive to me is the land value. Like it's on three-quarters of an acre, and it would be impossible to get something that price closer to town. I didn't ask that. I wanted you to play the game. So you're sort of answering my question.

You really like the land option. Mm-hmm. Is that right? It's not the house, it's the land? For option one? The house is very cute and totally suits me. I'm going option one. And financially, I understand, but you're... You got over 20%.

But yeah, you're in a wise position financially still. And Marissa, I think you you know four extra mortgage payments a year what that does you know to calculate you can do this you can pay it off you're not going to be paying it i think it's a cleaner more independent way um it keeps i just think it keeps it it just keeps it clean i would i i and the whole idea with the land and parents we've gotten this question more recently, I feel like, this past year. And I get it.

And again, some people it works, but most of the time it gets really messy from a legal standpoint, a property standpoint, taxes. I mean, all of it. And you've done the research. I mean, I'm so proud of you as you're rattling all of it off. You've thought through it.

But I think option one, that's what I would do. Judge Rachel has ruled, folks. Judge Ken? I concur. Okay. I concur. thought through it but i think i think option one that's what i would do judge rachel has ruled folks and uh i concur okay i concur where there's a part of me that makes her makes me want to tell her wait there could be another problem yeah yeah that's fair she seems like a hurry but well but i'm okay she's done a good job hey great hour thank you rachel cruz thanks to kelly daniel the merry band of folks behind the glass that keep us on the air and you america for listening this is the Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind,

and that's EveryDollar. The EveryDollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money start budgeting with every dollar for free right now just go to ramsey solutions.com slash every dollar and download the app today that's ramsey solutions.com slash every dollar