The Ramsey Show - Make The Right Decision Today Your Future Will Thank You

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

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George Camel here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So take what you learn today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. This is the Ramsey show. Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman.

We're thrilled to have you with us. The phone number to jump in on the conversation today is AAA 825-5-2-2-2-5. You're ready to go, Parker? I am ecstatic. I see you got your really fancy denim jacket on today. I saved the best for you. I appreciate you cleaning up. Let's go to Kathy in Texas.

Kathy, how can we help? Hi. I'm 68 years old, and six months ago I got involved with an online investment group. I eventually borrowed $50,000 for my brother. he invested 110. I retired from my company. I took out all my 401k and pension. And last month, they ghosted us and froze our accounts, and we lost it all.

I lost $487,000. My brother lost the 50 I borrowed and the 110 he invested. And my brother would like his money. Oh, boy. And I have a house that's paid off. I live in Texas, so I have a homestead on it. I have a $30,000 loan. from American Express. So I'm wondering, do I file bankruptcy? I tried to get a reverse mortgage,

but my husband died so my house is not in good enough condition. I'm just lost. Okay. Oh, absolutely. Not only you lost, I'm guessing you're just emotionally stunned. You know, that's an unbelievable. I'm devastated really. Yeah, I'm so sorry. Is this scam still out there? It probably is. I filed with FBI and all the agencies, but they didn't have a whole lot of hope for me. Yeah, it's rare that in these situations you get your money back. So how much debt total do you have right now? You said you have 30K on an American Express card? Right. That was a loan. The other two are 2000, maybe 3,000 total, so 33,000. So 33,000. And I'm a I know you retired recently.

Yes. What is your, what is the future look like as far as work? Because that's, we absolutely have to consider that right now. Oh, I know. I've been applying, but like I said, I'm 68. I've had my job for 36 years. I did sales, so I can do that. But I'm, you know.

How long have you been out of the workforce? Since May. End of May. What about your past company? Have we called them up and told them what's going on? And my job, once you quit, you're gone. I'm easily replaceable. Okay.

Wow. Well, bankruptcy, you know, it will clear the American Express debt, but I don't think it's worth defer to bankruptcy over this. Yeah. Because you just, you lost your retirement money. You're not going to get that back. Right. And the pension as well.

So you took the pension out as a lump sum, used that in the investment course, took cashed out every dime of your retirement, and threw. it into this course. Correct. All I have is $2,000 a month Social Security now. What is your social... $500. I make $2,000 a month.

And then what was the other thing you were about to mention, $500 something? I promised my brother $500 a month. Well, the promises are over. I mean, you don't have money. Sorry, brother is on his own. You both got screwed in this, and so you just simply don't have the money to pay him back. Okay. I mean, he got you into this if I heard you correctly.

No, I got him. Okay. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. That was just me kind of being on team Kathy, so I misunderstood. But no, you can't take care of brother. Brother's got to take care of himself. You both made a poor decision, and now we got to figure out of it.

You were what the bank would call a risky borrower. And so you borrowed this money, and he knew full well he might never see it again. He had faith in me. Sure. And I've never disappointed him before. Well, I hope you can pay him back one day, but it's not today. You're not going to be making him payments because you've got to put food on the table. Can you live off of 2000 a month?

My bills really are $800 a month plus food and then my homeowners insurance. So all in, what does it take to run your house for a month? Include food, include HOA, every single little thing. pretty much 2000. Okay. So you're just going to hopefully survive, and that's where getting a job is going to come into play. Listen, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to jump in real quick on the job thing, because I think coming off of something this emotionally difficult, one of the best things you can do is get to work.

Now, I understand that you have been applying, but I think you're going to have to take some opportunities that you wouldn't normally think about now. I mean, that's maybe Starbucks, Walmart, Target, I mean, you're functional, your former salesperson. we need income. And if we can get some benefits out of that, so I mean, you're doing everything you can. And your number one goal right now is tell everybody your story. Now, this is very difficult. I understand what I'm saying. I completely understand what I'm asking you to do, which is to share your story.

It is a thing that is going to be difficult because you're ashamed, and I understand that. But you aren't the only person who has been duped before. And I think a 60-year-old lady who's a good person. who has lived her life well. This is where we can't do this on our own. We cannot, Kathy, do this on our own. No advice that George and I will give you is going to alleviate that fact. This is the time to go, everybody I know, here's my story, here's what's going on,

and this is what I got to do. And I think that there's nothing wrong with that because you need some kind souls to go, I'm going to help Kathy. And I'm going to give Kathy a job. That's what has to happen right now. What is your house worth? Probably $350 for a flipper. It's on paper. What do you mean for a flipper?

You know, if somebody came in and wanted to flip it and make some quick money on it. I'm saying if you listed it on the MLS on the market with a real estate agent, What could you get for it? Well, I asked, and they said 375 to 425. Okay. So your house is worth about $400,000. I would keep it for now, try to stay afloat, try to get a job. And there's a worst-case scenario here where five years from now, if you're out of options,

you're unable to work for some reason. You could sell the house downsize and invest the difference to try to create a little bit of a nest egg. Well, that was why I was going to do the reverse mortgage route. No. I mean, they will just screw you with all of the fees. You're going to lose all of the equity in your home. You know, it's a terrible, horrible financial product. And they prey on desperate people like our friend Kathy to try to get them into these.

Kathy, I'm going to ask a question to George on your behalf very quickly. George, I agree with what you said about the house, but I'm sitting here going, if I'm in her shoes at 68, I wonder if it's not a, is it a feasible idea? of to not sell the house now and take the entire proceeds and get that back in the retirement accounts to try to grow over the next five years. As you said that, I just, what are you, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, that was my initial thought was could we just liquidate the house, invest every penny of it, and live off of the growth? There is risk there because we don't know what the market's going to do. I don't want it to live off of it. We don't know how long it'll last. So that's why I want to see right now, can we create enough income and then use that, play that card

later on down the road when necessary, instead of just going to that route and then not working at all. Right. That's my fear. So, Kathy, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I wish I had a magic wand and can just get these scammers to give you your money back. But the relationship with your brother, it's not going to be the same. The future you had, the retirement you dreamed of, it's not going to be the same. So you've got to grieve what was and just create a realistic picture of what comes next.

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Go to churchillmortgage.com to get started today. That's churchillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. Homebuyer edge and seller guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only. and not available in all states of locations. NMLSID 1591, NMLS ConsumerExis.org, Equal Housing Lender. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman. I'm alongside the one, the only, George Camel. He is without comparison, folks. That's just all I'll say. And he is our resident money expert today. He'll help you figure out what to do with it. I'm going to help you earn more of it. How about that? So you've got the guy who wants to help you make more money

and the guy who tells you what to do with the money. That's quite a combo. Winning team. And I see you got one of your nice. jackets on today. It's a sportsman, uh, varsity jacket, I think is what they say. Is that what it's called? I don't know. I was hoping you could tell me. That's no, that's no varsity jacket. Got it's missing the leather sleeves and the letterman. Do you even know what it means to letter in a sports? I never made the team can. I think that's pretty obvious. I know. No one is shocked by that at all,

but we still love you, George. Thank you. And you are our coach today. So where's the whistle? Coach Campbell. Let's get you a whistle and a hat. Whistles are obtrusive. They might be. Jim is up next in Little Rock, Arkansas. Jim, how can we help today? Hi, how you doing? Yeah, I'm calling because our church is expanding. We're adding on to the building, taking out a loan. Our church collects decent offerings every week and month,

but they want some guarantors to co-sign for the loan. How big is the loan? The loan is going to be about $3 million. And what kind of... Yeah, tell me about those church offerings. The church offerings are about 15,000 every week. The loan amount would be like 17,000 a month. So they want you to take personal risk for a $3 million loan?

A few of the members. Are you on the leadership team? Yes, I am. Well, how do you feel about this? I'm not at peace about it. That's why I call it, to be honest with you. We have some people that have done it. Yeah, I wouldn't do it.

I wouldn't do it. I guess I'm just kind of shocked that they would ask that. I agree. That's a very uncomfortable position to put you in. The church should never have to ask individuals to be guarantors on that. If the church can't service that loan, I don't know what they're thinking. So, yeah, the reason they need the guarantor is because the lender doesn't believe the church has the finances to pay. pay the loan. That should be red flag number one. Yeah. Waving in the wind. Number two, if I'm

part of this church board, I'm going to say, what would it take to cash flow this through, you know, a giving through the church? Who's driving this? Yeah. Who's driving this expansion idea? Is it, is it the pastor? It's a combination. Pastors and leaders. Yeah, but I mean, come on, who's the real cheerleader? You know the answer. Who is it? The pastor. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, he needs to cool his jets. The answer's no.

I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. And by the way, you felt that way before you called us. Yeah, I'm just calling for some confirmation. I just to make sure. Your guts right. Listen, I come from the church world. I was raised in the church. My dad was a church planner.

My dad didn't do what this pastor's doing, but I've seen it. you know, growth is exciting. Hey, we want to do this. We want to grow. And I believe the pastor's hearts in the right place. But he's got building fever. And it's an easy thing to happen. And it's just like anything else. He as a pastor is not immune from the idea of being tempted, you know, to buy a bigger house, George, or to buy some land and build the dream home well before you're ready to do so. He's not immune from that. And that's what this is. He shouldn't be putting pressure as a leader on people in the church to personally guarantee what the church needs to handle on their own. So that's for that reason, George, we're out. We're out. So there you go. Let's go to Morgan in Cleveland, Ohio.

Morgan, how can we help? Hey, how's it going, guys? Good. How are you? I'm great. Thank you so much for taking my call. I recently experienced a pretty big increase in my income. I am a student and I've moved from an hourly wage to kind of a higher salary. And I'm a bit overwhelmed about what to do with it and how to manage it responsibly. I was wondering if you have any advice for a student on go by a house or invest or I have no idea what to do. Wow. Congrats.

So what were you making and what do you make now? So I was making, the most I've ever made is about $20 an hour and my new salary is $210,000. a year. Whoa. So you hold on. Five X your income. You went from like 40 grand to 210. Tell us really quickly, 20 seconds.

What happened? I'm a law student and I just got really, I got decent grades and I landed a job. Nice. Good for you. So you've already taken the firm job. You got the big job. So this will be for next summer.

So I'd be a summer. But after that, hopefully a plan is that they hired me back. I've pretty consistently, they hired those individuals back and they train you over the summer. Okay. So I will receive this pro-rated next summer. Okay, so it's a pro-rated. It's not like you've signed on and you're now going to be making $210,000 over the next 12 months. I will after I graduate, so that'll be in a year.

Okay, gotcha. So it's locked in. Okay, got you. But you know this is coming that potentially a year from now, you'll five extra income and you're going, what do I do? Wow. Yes. Do you have any debt from law school? No, I was very fortunate to have a good scholarship. Wow. Well, you worked your butt off for it. It wasn't luck.

I appreciate that. Thank you. So no debt at all? No debt at all. No car loan, no credit in an apartment. How much fun are you going to have with this? You just like catapulted your future. Do you have anything in savings right now? I have about a hundred thousand in savings. Who are you? Is this a prank call, Morgan? Be honest. Morgan, are you a real person?

I am actually. I wanted to thank you guys because my parents actually, I'm sure they would be shocked because I'm calling the show right now, but they listen to Dave Ram's growing up. And the whole show, they went to his event. They wanted to thank him and get the opportunity. Wow. Well, this works. The best thank you is following the plan and living.

it out and changing your family tree and your parents have done that, you're doing that. Wow. A hundred grand save, no debt. They paid off their house, so they want to thank you as well. Wow. Look at that. Incredible family. Okay, so if I'm in your shoes, my next goal would likely be to purchase a home once

I have that stable, big income. So what does your living situation look like right now? Right now, I'm in an apartment. I pay about $1,000 a month. I'm right next to my law school. and, yeah, that's about it. Is the firm in the same area where you're going to school now? It's not.

I will have to move. I have a place rented out for the summer already that I've paid for for next summer, but that's about 1,000 as well, $1,000 a month. George, what I was going to suggest here, and I'll stay out of the way here, let you keep going, but I wonder if she doesn't rent for at least six months, maybe 12 months. Once she lands in this new metropolitan area or wherever she's going to have been. Even if you want to rent for two years and continue stacking up cash, depending on how big a home she's going to get. Yeah, I don't know what your area is like, but, I mean, how cool of a goal would it be to say, I'm going to keep living how I've been living.

And this extra, you know, what, 150 grand, I'm going to just sock away into savings. And after two years, I'm going to have a few extra $100 grand. Well, I think that's what I'm wondering is, I mean, I know nothing about houses. I've never looked to buy a house. I don't know if that's a terrible idea or I should be investing and just keep living kind of frugally. The good news is you can do both. So in the baby steps, you would be at baby steps for, you could call it 3B, where you're saving up for the home down payment. And many people choose to invest that 15% into retirement from their income.

And so you can do that now, depending on what, you know, retirement options you have through your employer. You could always open a Roth IRA and fully fund that through your income. And then as you make more, that 15% chunk gets larger. You know, 15% of 200 grand is way more than 40. And so as you do that, you're going to continue to build wealth, any money beyond that, let's stack away in a high-ield savings account and maybe get a house in the next two years. And maybe you could even pay cash. Yeah, that's an overwhelming thought.

And here's the deal. You don't have to do this alone. If you jump on to ramsysolutions.com, click on trusted services, and you can get connected with a real estate agent that is Ramsey trusted that will help you walk through this home ownership journey. And I think that's the next step for a young gal who's crushing it. And beyond that, enjoy some of it, give some of it. Yeah. And I just want to say, Morgan, I know you're doing such a great job out on your own,

but your mom and dad have taught you right. They've done it the right way. Call mom and dad. You're not alone on this deal. They're going to walk you through them. They're solid people. And so you've got the best bench that you could possibly want, helping coach you as you enter into life.

Thanks for the call, Morgan. You're a superstar. This is The Ramsey Show. Everywhere you turn this time of year, someone's telling you to swipe a card now and pay later. But that mindset always leads straight to debt and post-holiday stress. Fairwinds Credit Union takes a different approach. They're here to help you win with money. Fair wins doesn't push credit cards.

They help you build savings and stay debt-free, just like we teach, with the baby steps. And to do that, Fair wins created the smart. bundle with Ramsey fans in mind. It's more than a bank account. It's a tool to help you live with intention. The smart bundle includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and the exclusive Ramsey Be Weird debit card, which says debt is normal, be weird, right on the front. So every time you swipe at this Christmas season, it's a reminder that you're choosing a different path. To spend no more than you actually have. To avoid. that January budget hangover and to be free from debt traps.

Go to fairwins.org slash Ramsey to open your smart bundle and get your Ramsey be weird debit card today. That's fairwins.org slash Ramsey insured by the NCUA. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Thrilled to have you with us, America. Triple-8. 825.5-2-25 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman, George Camel, is along. Alongside, Karen is up next in San Antonio, Texas. Karen, how can we help today? Hi, you guys. Sure, appreciate you taking my call today.

You bet. I guess the start that I'm a widow. 66. I have a small business that's kind of struggling. Recently had heart surgery, et cetera, et cetera, no kids, no family, two dogs. Two dogs live in Social Security and some from my business and credit. cards. I managed to get into a situation. I borrowed money from a personal loan, an online personal loan company nationally advertised, all that kind of good stuff. Went through the whole process

because I wanted to pay off some debt, you know, to get rid of my credit cards and to invest in a vehicle for my mobile salon. And managed to find out that, you know, I managed to find out that The interest rate is somewhere around 48%. Oh, my goodness. And it's front-loaded. I mean, I heard the 48%, but I thought, that's no big deal because I'm going to pay this off very quickly. And so I didn't pay attention enough to hear that it's front-loaded. So the amount of money that I borrowed...

Most of your payments are going to interest, essentially, not touching the principal. How much was the loan for? Half and half is what it is. I ran a thing this morning. How much? Half and half. It's going to principal. How much was the loan?

For $29,000. And how soon were you planning to pay that off when you just stared 48% and went, bah, no big deal? How quickly were you planning to pay that off? Those were your words. Within a year. Within a year. So you were okay with a 48% for a year?

I've never heard anybody say that before. That's an extra $15,000 in interest alone. Yeah. Well, like I said, I'm kind of ridiculously stupid at this particular point. Yeah. I mean, I'm not here to bash you. I'm trying to understand the desperation that led you to this. Yeah, that's what I'm – is this for your business?

Yes. What's your business? It was – it's dog grooming. Why did you need $29,000 for a dog grooming business that's struggling? To – I went into the next phase, and excuse me, I didn't expect that. It's going into a mobile situation, a mobile grooming situation, with a very specified market. Nobody's really tapping into it at this point.

What is the market? Well, I don't really want to say it out loud on the question. Oh, okay, competition. You don't want to give away your shark tank idea here. Well, I hire mobile groomers, so I'm just curious because I pay these people and I understand how the business works. And I've used a mobile groomer as well. Right. But this was a –

This is a – the concept was a little bit different. It's a larger grooming situation where you have two people inside and then you – We're situated in an area, a contracted area, that we would be there for three or four days and we would – Okay. You kind of park a set-up shop. So we're – The only reason we're digging is... It's kind of like a pop-up.

Got it. But the only reason we're digging on this is we're trying to figure out how we help you get out of it. So the question is, was the 29,000 for like a van or some type of vehicle? Or was it just the equipment? Or was it just other stuff? It was part of the... You're breaking up on us, Karen? I'm sorry. It was part for the vehicle and then the other part for the conversion of the vehicle to the unit that I was trying to achieve.

How much could you sell this thing for to... someone else who does mobile grooming? I believe in an easy 40, 40, 40, 45,000. And what's your total debt that you owe? Everything but the mortgage? On the vehicle? No, just everything. All your job. Because you said you had other debt and you took out this debt to try to pay off some other debt. So what is your total debt load right now?

Okay, total debt load with the thing that I took out before is about $31,000. Then I have eight grand on MX and about $8,000 on Citibank and that's it as far as what I owe and about and 4,000 on the RV that I bought to live in. So you're living in an RV right now? Yes, that's correct. I had a plan originally.

We all have a plan until life punches us in the face. So how if we were to sell this, Can you sustain yourself on just regular pet grooming? Or do you have to be mobile? Well, it's part of, you know, to continue on with the mobile business just because of the culture of employees and such since COVID. I have a standalone. I mean, I have a stick and mortar business also, but I was going to keep it in a small set. Is that profitable?

Is the brick and mortar business profitable? Right now, no. So here's what it sounds like you're jumping from unprofitable to unprofitable to unprofitable, hoping to strike gold at some point. And instead, you just keep digging a hole by maxing out these cards and jumping to another piece of debt to try to cover the other debt. And so we're trying to stop you from playing the shell game. And number one, create a profitable business and two, get out of debt. And that might mean a clean slate where you get rid of this mobile grooming truck. You sell it.

sell the RV, you rent for a while, get rid of all your debt, create a foundation, and then start slow and with cash. Yeah, I just, and to that end, Karen, we're trying to solve for you here. Could you make similar money just grooming for somebody else, just somebody else who's got a business and they're looking for a solid person like you, you're not going to flake on them, you've got the skill set. Can you make the same amount of money working for somebody else as a groomer? if I wanted if I was able to work full time and work as hard as I used to yes I'm like I mentioned before I'm 66 and I had what are you making from this what what is your yearly income from all of this after all of your expenses oh barely anything because everything I have that's what I'm saying you could go work a retail job and not break your back doing this

I agree. Get out of this completely. And what about 20 hours? Like, just work part-time. They need groomers. You're a dream for somebody. I know. I'm trying to find one. I know.

But Karen, listen, we want you to sell all this stuff. And you got Social Security coming in, work 20, 30 hours, do whatever you can. But selling the RV and selling this van gets a whole lot of them. I don't have the van yet. That's why I borrowed the money to. Where is the money right now? Well, I was afraid to spend it once I figured out how much it was going to cost me. So I kept it and just limited it pay itself.

Wait, so it's the money. Can you just go ahead and pay off the loan then? I could, but it would take everything, pretty much everything. Good. Better than paying 15 grand in interest that you don't have. Yes, Karen. This is get out of jail here. I thought the damage was done and you already bought the van and did the renovations.

But if you have the money, No, no, it's not even there yet. Hit the rewind button. The bank gave you 31,000 at 48% interest. That's it. Rewind this whole deal. And you have to $31,000. Do it.

I'm sorry for the sound effects. No, it's great, actually. I like that. Really? Karen, hit the rewind button and get out of this deal. Go work for a local groomer who is going to be thrilled to have a 66-year-old experienced, non-flaky, Gen Z groomer. And they're going to pay you well.

and you get some breathing room. Am I right, George? Absolutely. And what's the RV worth? You owe $4,000 on it. What could you sell it for? No, I owe $40,000 on it. Oh, my goodness. And what I could sell it for is about between 35 and 40. Do it. It's a 24. Do it. Where the hell am I going to live? Rent somewhere. Over some old lady's garage.

Because she needs some companionship and she wants somebody who can. I'm telling you, where there's a will. there's a way. What's your payment on the RV? 441. Okay. Take your 441 that you'll save by getting rid of that, plus your Social Security, plus your part-time hours, and you can afford rent somewhere. You might need it, you know, to

go against you. I guarantee there's some golden girls in your community that would have a roommate. I mean, you've got to look. You've got to find it. You've got to happen to life, Karen. And we've been talking to a lady who life has been happening to her. You've got to flip the script here. We told you exactly what to do. This is doable, because you got to do it.

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I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. This hour, the phone number is 8255-225. You got a question about your money. Come on. You got a question about not making enough money. You want to make more. I'm here to help on that.

George is going to coach you up on your budget, how to keep it. So let's get to it. Is it Joan? I think we're going to go with Joan or Joanne. What do you think? I'm going to go Joanne. I'll go with Joanne. Let's see. Toronto, Ontario. Is it Joan or Joanne? It's Joanne. All right. Way to go, George. Way to help me out. I win a prize. Thank you. How can we help? Okay. So we have a 15-year-old son who we have been baby, Dave Ramsey's followers for years. So he has done the 60, 30, 10 principle. Now he is working 50, 60 hours a week. And we are starting to see an unhealthy money habit where everything is about money and savings.

Be more specific. What's what's showing up in his actions and his comments, that's got you concerned about a 15-year-old working 50 to 60 hours a week. I'm having a hard time being concerned yet, but I want to hear more. Okay. Well, and maybe this is where we don't need to be concerned. But he is an avid soccer fan, and he would rather work than go to his soccer games. You mean playing in his... Correct.

Okay. And what's his job? What kind of work is he doing? He's now into landscaping. And what's he making per hour? $19 an hour. And what kind of goals does this kid have with this money? Have you heard him talk about some of his goals?

Oh, yes. What's he got? He wants to buy a house. Uh-huh. And why does he want to buy a house? He wants to buy a house when he's 20. And yes, in Canada, in our area, you don't get much of a house for $400,000. Right.

And what is he? what is he saying about his future besides buying a house? Is he saying anything about a professional future, things that he may want to do one day? He's leaning towards running his own landscaping company. Okay, there's your answer. But when it comes to college, it is off the table. He doesn't even want to think about it because he can make money instead. Fantastic.

He's making $4,500 a month at 15 years old. What does he need college for? I couldn't be happier, Joanne. You have nothing to be consistent. concerned about it all. You have a 15-year-old who has discovered the value of working his butt off and stacking cash. And he's thinking five years ahead on a house. He's thinking probably seven to 10 years ahead on owning his own landscaping company. And he's going, I'm never going to play in the MLS and I'm probably not going to make the Canadian World Cup team. So maybe I'll

just skip my soccer game and take care of my future. I wouldn't be concerned if I were you Joanne, I'd be throwing a party. Okay. That's good. George, am I wrong? Here's my take. Now, there's, I'm, the only concern is that he has skipped childhood and went straight into adulthood. We want him to grow into an adult who is excited about work.

I like that. He hasn't skipped childhood. That's a dramatic. Well, I just don't want him to look back one day and go, like, I just, what did I do this for? I just worked my whole life. My concern can, and here's where I've seen this play out. There's not a why behind it. He's got a why.

Well, he wants a house. No. He wants to run his own landscaping company one day. Yes. He likes landscaping work. Why a house at 20? Who cares about that? That's just a 15-year-old.

That'll work itself out. She's wondering, is he working too much? Is he too concerned about money? And I don't think he is. Does he have to be in school? We homeschool. Okay. And he's doing his high schooling.

Instead of four years, he's doing it in three. And he's getting it all done. He's doing his work. He's studying. Oh, absolutely. Okay, great. This kid's a machine. He can work and make money.

Yeah, but a lot of people get it. Well, he hates the homeschooling, but he's so bound and bent he can make money. But he's very disciplined. Instead of sitting behind a desk. Yes. But that's what schooling does to a lot of entrepreneurs. In fact, I could tell this story over and over and over and over and over against all about all the great entrepreneurs. They hate being behind a desk.

They hate the process. They're about doing. And my guess is he really enjoys the outdoors. Is this something he's always been, a bit of an. outdoorsy, handy kind of guy? Oh, absolutely. 100%. Again, this is, he's

listen, I wrote a book called Find the Work You're Wired to Do, George. This kid is wired. He figured it out very early. Yes. I'm telling you, I'm so excited. I can barely stand it. This is, by the way, this is rare. Very. But to say this kid's not

had any fun, he's had a fun childhood, yes? Yeah. And trauma. Lots of trauma. Okay, tell us about that, whatever you're comfortable with. We don't need to know the details, but what kind of trauma? He lost his brother when he was seven. So that's really tough on him. Well, that'll make it grow up quick. That's exactly what I was so sorry. Yeah. Yeah, and a year later, his dad and me split.

Okay. So would you say it's possible that this is a big distraction for him and it all also is a potential win for him. He sees a big life win. He sees something that he can control. He couldn't control losing his brother. He couldn't control you all divorcing, but he can control how much money he makes. I think so. And potentially it makes him focused on something other than his pain.

That's exactly what I'm getting at. That's why I said it's a distraction and something that he can control. It can be both. Listen, I think getting him therapy. on a consistent basis and encouraging him to do that is okay. I understand your concern. I was having some fun. I am in no way minimizing the trauma that he's had.

But this is actually he's not some weird situation. He's rare, but he's not weird. Okay. George, I keep thinking about my friend Graham Stephan, who's a big financial YouTuber. He had a very similar experience to your son, Joanne, where he went, he was in school going, wait, I can go make money doing this aquarium photography stuff. Why am I sitting here in school making $0? So there's a bent to him that he's going to be very wealth-minded, and that's okay.

I'm just in the boat of, I think a little bit of balance is good. As long as he has some hobbies, I just, I don't know that I don't want to be working 60 hours a week, let alone a 15-year-old. So that was my only thing was I love where he's headed, his mindset's right, his discipline is there. I just want him doing it for the right reasons and have some real depth to it instead of just going, I got to build wealth. I got to have a million by 21 or else or else or else. And as I dig into it people, there's no why behind it.

I just want him to have that deeper why. And I appreciate that. But Joanne, I would just be aware. I think George makes a very good point there. I just keep your eye on it. But really encourage him and really just speak positive life over him that he's working so hard, that he's put money away. And just remind him, hey, have a little bit of fun with some of that money. And force him to give some of that money.

too. Yeah. You said you're doing the 60, 30, 10. I assume that's saving, spending, giving. Yeah, but he, as long as we've done that, which is all he ever actually remembers, he's never spent 30%. I think we get him to, he doesn't spend way less. To enjoy some of it more, because what I'm, the only concern is that he has a flat tire, where he goes, I'm great at saving and investing. I have a harder time giving and having that open hand. I have a harder time enjoying the fruits of my labor. So I think we can work on those things with him, but I don't think this is a, you know, a crisis. No.

Okay. Just make sure he doesn't get too unhealthy. And that's the only issue. And the unhealthy would be that he's just working, working, working, not enjoying, not giving. So be that positive focus. Hey, I think you should go do this. Or I think you should have some friends over and do that. Community, I think, is huge at 15.

Here's the interesting thing. It may be very hard to find other 15-year-olds who get him. he'll be hiring his buddies to work for his business at this point. Right. You know, so they come over to play poker or something. He goes, hey, let's get outside and knock some boxwoods out here. Let's plant these suckers, you know. But I think you've got a great young man who's been through a lot.

And I think he's been forced to probably mature a little bit too early on certain things. And so lean in, mom, and love him. Don't be concerned because he'll pick up on that. And I just don't think you need to be concerned right now. On the spectrum of 60 hours a week doing video games or working, I'd rather him be toward the work side. So that's better. I love that. Good stuff.

All right, good hour, George Camel. Good stuff. Praying for your voice. We'll get you medicated. More honey during the break. Thanks to Kelly Daniel, keeping us on the air and the fearless crew. This is the Ramsey show. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz.

The holidays are here, which means family time and giving back and remembering what the season is all about. And let's be real. It also means shopping. Y'all, if you're anything like me, December gets really busy and really expensive. It's harder to stay intentional with your spending. And that's why I love shopping on Amazon, especially this time of year. Named the lowest priced U.S. online retailer for nine years running by Profitero, a third-party analytics and research firm.

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pretty much, and I have a plan, and there's some details around that, but that's my question. Okay, tell us more. How do I get out of this poverty? Am I on the right track, and what can I do that? Well, okay, let's start with where you are. What is your income? Right now I have income of about 1,400 with Social Security disability, and I have a part-time labor job for about 100 a week. My income last year on taxes was about just under 21K, which is impossible to live on, of course. Now, I'm curious about the disability, because you're working part-time. What is the part-time job? The part-time job is working at the grocery store as a courtesy cart, bagging groceries, lifting water, pushing the lady carts out for them.

I try to make people feel good and have a blessing on the last face they see before they walk out. Dan, you're a good man. But what is your, what is your disability and how does it limit you from working more? Well, it's like psychiatric. I've had a deep trauma. in childhood. And I've been in recovery from alcoholism for 28 years coming up December 4th. But there's a lot of these underlying issues and problems, which have really prevented me from

thinking clearly about money, making clear good choices, and, you know, making bad decisions like that. So the disabilities, I can't really function that good in a workplace and a lot of depression and personality problems. Well, how are you known at the grocery store? Well, I do excellent at the grocery store. And why do you think that is? Because I started doing a special therapy for trauma called EMDR in March.

And it took me from staring at the wall for a year and a half to working, feeling good, and taking a – I took a training and got a certificate in Google Data Analytics from March until now. Way to go. I'm looking to up level. I'm trying to up level. The thing is, I get to get off Social Security for the first time since 2000, which is somewhat terrible. I think that's the root of this. I do too. And Dan, I want to tell you, keep at it. And I would ask your therapist, get a professional opinion on whether or not she or he feels like you can go to full-time work. Let's take some baby steps to this. And let's move into, if we can, full-time at the grocery store,

because you're psychologically safe there right now. Sounds like. Well, the problem, I can't do full-time at the grocery store, which is a complex. thing about the way they do their positions. I tried that in March, which didn't turn out. So that's what made me turn back towards tech because I went to graduate school for research methods in the 90s. And I've got all the statistical background, and now we've got all this new technology, AI company data analytics is hot. I'm all for you going full blast on the technology side, but what I was suggesting is that might take a little bit of time to get that job. And you're already in recovery, and you're doing some work. And so I think that you're,

getting some wins here is super important you would agree with that correct not just financial wins but psychological mental and emotional wins so here's where i'm going dan i would have never guessed nor would anybody in this vast audience would have ever guessed the trauma we still don't know it's none of our business but we wouldn't have guessed any of that based on how you described how you treat people and what you do at the grocery store so i'm going to tell you something man, I just, I wish I could reach through the phone and give you a hug and say that I think you're stronger than you think you are. And I just, as a, as a stranger who's heard thousands upon thousands of calls, I heard a man who is full of joy. And not only full of joy,

but like gives joy. I got goosebumps when you described the, you want to be the last face they see as they go to their car. I mean, there's a guy who's, been through so much pain and has made it through just enough to be able to give joy when you've had very little joy. So there's my locker room speech, Dan, but here's where I'm going. If the grocery store won't move you to full time, what about Target? What about Walmart? What about any other big box stores who need somebody like you who's going to show up?

broken yes joyful yes and you're going to give yourself away I'd like to see you take that step and let's see if we can get full-time pay and some benefits at one of those bigger stores and share some of your story

don't share all the darkness don't share it but just go hey I've been through a lot I'm 28 years sober I hear that from somebody and I go rock on baby I have mad respect for you, Dan. So I want you to carry that. And let's see if we can get to one of those

roles, get more income in, and get off of Social Security while we are making the inroads and connecting. And I'm going to give you my book, The Proximity Principle is my gift to help you make connections to get into technology. Now, that's my little speech, but I meant every word of it. I appreciate you. That was amazing. That really helps me a lot. You're amazing. It's my heart. Well, good. Because I think your head and your heart need to get on the same page.

Yes, sir. You've lost trust in Dan, and we're telling you he's worth trusting in again. It's worth betting on yourself. I stand with Dan. I'd call every store in Mesa, and I'd vouch for you. Because there's nobody among us today that doesn't have some brokenness. So I think you're going to have to step up a ladder on this. Yeah, the way out of this is.

income and the good news is if you make so much working that you lose SSDI, good. That's great. That's exactly what you wanted, isn't it? Because that's the only path out of this is making enough that you can lose it and not miss it. George, and cover your bills. George, take two minutes and walk him through step by step. Let's assume he's gotten that money now. Walk him through setting up a budget and trusting himself that he doesn't need Social Security. Yeah, right now you're going, well, budget what money? You know, you don't have enough coming in. But once you have three, four thousand, coming in and your expenses stay where they are at I'm assuming two thousand bucks a month how how much you're living off of right now 1800 so can you imagine having an extra thousand or

two thousand bucks left over after your bills are covered what kind of life that could provide for you your ability to save to invest to give because I can tell you're a generous guy who has a heart for that it's going to change everything so you list out your income you list out your expenses and the good news there's going to be money left over when you believe in yourself and go I'm going to do the kind of work that I was made to do. And I don't think you're passionate about groceries. You're passionate about serving people. And that could be through analytics.

That could be at Target. It doesn't matter. The key is you're worth more than $100 a week. Can we agree on that? Yes, sir. Dan, I'm going to tell you, those tears are not a sign of weakness, man. Well, these jobs, you know, they started $100K, these jobs. Yeah.

I've been on disability since 2000. If I got a $6,000, take-home check. I'd be on my knees. I'd be walking on. No, I'll tell you what you're going to do. You're going to get yourself a ticket and you're going to come to Nashville and you're going to wait to meet George and I in the lobby. We're going to come out. I'm going to give you a big bear hug and we're going to have the whole lobby.

Just cheer. Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, let me tell you something. The Dan we're talking to today who's here today and made the call today has got enough strength to be the Dan that you want to be. You better believe that, my man. Hang on the line. We're going to get you the proximity principle. that is your homework assignment to get that $100,000 a year job. This is Dave Ramsey.

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and find real hope in Christ. $28, one ultrasound, one heartbeat, one mom who realizes she's not alone. That's the kind of life-changing impact your giving makes through pre-born. Go now to preborn.com slash Ramsey or call 855601-229. That's preborn.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside the phone number is AAA 825-5-2-2-25. Allison is up in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Allison, how can we help? Hi, good afternoon, guys. Thanks for taking my call. I just want to give a little background of what I'm asking about. I'm getting my boyfriend just under two years, and we have definitely talked about the future together. You know, and the next step would be living together. We feel rent is just a waste of money.

We like to buy a house. Neither of us are in the financial state to buy a house. his parents have graciously offered to basically have us buy their house from them for 350,000, which is, you know, pennies in this market, with the agreement of if we were to ever sell that we would have to split the difference with them. Whose parents? My boyfriend's parents. This is an awful idea. That's why I'm calling.

Did you feel like it was an awful idea when you called, or did you think it was a great idea and you're just being nice to my really dour response? I was kind of 50-50. You know, I came from a divorce house and my parents argued about money every single day. My boyfriend's parents are still together. They live in middle class, so did we. I also have student debt. My boyfriend doesn't have any.

So I'm just trying to, I guess, think of the future. I'm also thinking, am I going to sign off on a mortgage without an engagement? So I know that's playing into it. Yeah, yeah, those are all legit questions. I mean, George can go through the litany. That's your gut telling you, red flag, red flag, red flag, don't do this. It's not the opportunity you think it is. And also, you splitting the difference with them.

What happens if you stay in this for 10 or 20 years and this house becomes worth a million bucks and you just gave away 300 grand? Right. Do you see how convoluted it is? Can I give you an alternate vision? Can I do that, Allison? Yeah, I'm, I'm, All ears, I'm willing. Here's the alternate vision. You and your boyfriend don't live together until you get married. And when you get married, you join finances. And maybe you attack a lot of that debt before you ever put a ring on it. And you get debt free. And you guys rent for two years or whatever it's going to take, three years to get a good down payment. George will walk you through that formula of what we recommend. But we just,

take our time and we're not thinking things like, oh, what a waste of time, us actually being married and not owning a home and just have this alternate vision for, hey, we can take our time and move into this and not be saddled with, you know, a really weird, clunky arrangement. And George, explain our formula on all of this. Well, what you're looking for is 25% of your take-home pay going toward the mortgage, And that's with two married people. And there's a lot of issues with doing this before your marriage. There's a lot of issues doing this with his parents involved and them having a financial gain in this.

It just gets real messy. What happens when you guys or if you guys break up? And now not only are you, hey, I'm on the mortgage. He stopped paying. But now the parents are involved with the sale of the house. And they don't like me because I don't know. Their boy. It's just a mess.

And I hope that doesn't happen. I hope you guys stay together forever. But the next logical step is not, let's live. together and buy a house even though we're broke. The next logical step is how do we get out of debt? How can we take steps toward marriage? And then once we're in a good financial position, we buy a house. But right now what's clouding your judgment is this, quote, deal that you're getting on this house. It's not that, I mean, I'm going to be 32 soon and he's going to be 36 in a month. So we're kind of thinking, you know, we want to get married, you want to start a family, start a life together.

Great. The market right now is just. But you don't have to buy this house. This has nothing to do with the market. Let me tell you what happens because I know these stories. You guys move in together to this new house and for four more years you talk about getting married. Because guess what? Now you've kind of already played house.

So what's the point of getting married? Why the rush? And we're broke so we can't pay for a wedding. And therefore you're going to build up resentment. And that's going to not end well for this relationship. And so we're just showing you what happens on the other side. We're not trying to be naysayers. We just get too many calls when people hoped it would work out of someone.

certain way, and then life happened. Right. I get it. And I, you know, like I said, you know, I came from divorced parents. I'm personally in debt. I'm working extremely hard to tackle and just get rid of it. So him and I don't have to worry about it. And he's a complete opposite. Doesn't have any debt. Didn't have to worry about parents' financial struggles. So, you know, we're coming from two totally different point of view than what I bring up to him, you know, I don't want to say. I don't want to find a mortgage away if I'm not engaged. Like I need at least a commitment. What does he say to that? He kind of, I don't think he danced around the idea, but he, like, he goes, well, we're going to do it eventually. Like, we're going to be together. Like, you know, but I really want to live together

before we do. I'm like, yeah, me too. But if I'm going to sign a mortgage without a ring, like, I don't see how that's fair to me. Yeah, you're right. Don't, I'm not going to get into my traditional views of all this, but you certainly should not sign a mortuary. when you were not legally married to him. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at first I was like, I don't want to buy a house unless we're married. And then I compromise with, I need at least an engagement. So I know it's coming. No, don't compromise. Don't compromise. Make him, listen, you got the leverage, sister.

He needs to step up. Right. He needs to step his game up. Is he going to pop the question or not? You should play this back for him on YouTube. I'll tell him. I'm the bad guy today. I don't care. Man up, bro. Put a ring on it. Don't put pressure on her to get into an ill-advised deal. What's wrong with you?

And to use this as leverage to hang over your head is just strange and manipulative. It's weak. Say, well, once we move in, then I'll propose. I want to try it out. I want to live with you for a while before I decide to commit to you. This is what's wrong with men in America today. We've got all these freaking women walking around that have got a lot to offer, and they're in their 30s, and they can't get married because you got a bunch of freaking children

posing as men. We got a man problem in the United States. And women, you know what you ought to do? Just tell these guys. Go pound sand. I'm not going to live with you. I'm not even going to date you for a long time. If you don't show some dag-gum commitment,

I just got to tell you, George. I get a little irritated with it. And this is a problem. And he's in his 30s, Allison, right? He's 36. He's a man-child. Why doesn't he just buy the house on his own? There we go.

There's a notion. Right. He doesn't have the money, right? I think I shocked, Allison. Yeah, I do, you know, I want me to say, like, he has been the, I know this is probably sound contradictory, but he has been, like, the most amazing partner I could have ever asked for. And, like, we don't have any issues. but, you know, when it comes to this, like, this is where, but when it comes to this, like, we obviously

have two standpoint. He's seeing it as, let's get, you know, the living situation on the road, and we can finally move forward and be together. He commits first. Like, renting, renting is one thing, but, like, a mortgage. I don't know. No. I thought we told you that, Allison.

Don't keep waffling on this. And listen, he may be a great boyfriend, but he's a boy. And until it starts acting like a man, I'm going to tell you something, I wouldn't do any of this with him. I wouldn't do any. I wouldn't move in with him either. And if that means you're renting,

don't look at that as throwing away money on rent. You're buying patience. If you have to get two or three roommates until this is all figured out and you guys are married, I'm okay with that. That's how I did it before I was married and it worked out great.

And it really helps you avoid so many issues that can come up when you jump into this next step, which is the biggest financial move you will ever make in your life is buying this house. And doing it with someone you're not married to is a recipe for disaster. All right. I'm going to, I got to ask you, what's this, if this were a dating show? What's your statute of limitations if I, if I can borrow a phrase on how long a guy should be in a serious relationship like this before we start to say, hey, dude, you have commitment issues. Here's what I'll say. What's the length of time? If it's high school sweethearts, I think you can get more time.

If you're in your 30s, I give it two to three years. Max. Oh, that's way too long. Two or three years, max. I think a year. I think 12 months. If you're in your 30s and you've been seriously dating someone for a year, if you can't decide by that point whether or not they're a life partner.

I like getting past the first year. That's when you finally have your first fight. The first year, it's all gum drops and rainbows. No, I think that's about a three-month period. You've got to know how they fight. Conflict is everything. You got to know how they fight before you say yes. All right.

Ken's an old man. But I think we're on the same page. I believe in commitment. Been married 26 years. I believe in a thing called love. Stuff it. This is the Ramsey Show. If you've got collectors breathing down your neck and you're drowning in credit card debt,

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Easy show question of the day is brought to you by Y-R-R-R-R-R-E-FI. If you're ready to stop drowning in private student loan debt, Y-R-R-R-E-F-Y-F-R-E-F-Y throws you a rope. Talk to Y-R-R-R-F-Nation with a low fixed rate is an option for you. Visit Y-R-R-R-E-F-Y. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y. dot com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. Our question today is from Marco in Arkansas. I'm in... Sorry, how to do it.

I like that. Didn't we just meet a family from Texarkana, Arkansas? We did? In the lobby? Oh, there they are right there. Very nice. Marco says I'm in Baby Step 2 with $10,000 left to pay off. I'm ready to go all in by working two full-time jobs until I get through Baby Step 3.

I'm worried that my kids will be affected by dad not being around as much. should I go through this to benefit us in the long run, or am I going to cause damage to my children and potentially my spouse, even though she's on board with my plan, I make about $100,000 at my current job. What? You're not going to damage your children. They probably aren't even old enough to know that you're around.

It kind of goes like this. So I'm on the other end of the spectrum of George. George is just getting started. And I'm, you know, like I see empty nesting. It's in your near future. It's there. It's another millennia for me. Boy, oh, boy, am I excited about it.

I love my kids, but I got to tell you. It's, it looks nice. Anyway, point is, is that I feel like there's a season where the kids, they have no concept of time. You know what I mean? They're babies, so they don't even know what's going on. Then they're toddlers. Can't appreciate what's going on.

Then they're like elementary, they're fine. You know, they're fine. And then you've got this like maybe second, third grade. They start being aware. Mom and Dad aren't around, whatever. And then they become middle schoolers and you don't want to be around them. And then they become teenagers and they don't want to be around you. So I just want to give some perspective here as a guy who's in this.

Marco, you're going to be fine. It is definitely, if they got to see a little bit less of dad for a season, as long as they understand why to the ability that they can understand. If they can't understand it, it doesn't matter if they can. I think they're really going to appreciate it. They'll get it and everything's going to be okay. Yeah. And based on his language here, he's saying, I'm ready to go all in.

It sounds like this has been stressing him out and he's wanting to get rid of it fast. And here's the thing. A stressed dad, a stressed mom is not a present dad. Yeah, the kids feel that. They feel it. And so I'd rather you not be around them if you're like a live wire because, you're so stressed out about your money. I'd rather you be at work working to clean this mess up. And the other thing is the math ain't math in from it. You got 10 grand to pay off. You make

a hundred grand at your current job without the two full time. Why is it going to take you so long that you think you're going to cause trauma to your kids? Are you going to be doing this for three years? I think you could clean it up with the current income if you just got your expenses down. You can get out of 10 grand of debt and save up another 25 pretty quickly making six figures. So I don't know that your plan is necessary. I would like to see. see what we can do on the expenses side before we go to up the income. But either way, if this is a short period, like six months to go hard at this, your kids will be like, wait, what happened when I was two? I don't have any recollection, not ringing a bell. So I wouldn't worry about it. But way to go,

Marco, for being willing to go all in and having a spouse that's on board. That's a good sign. Sarah is in Boston up next. What's going on, Sarah? Hi, George. Hi, Hikin. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. So sadly, last month, my mother-in-law passed away. And she left, thank you, thank you. She left two paid off properties to my husband and his two sisters. And the siblings have agreed to sell the primary residence. But my husband wants to keep the other home.

It's a small cottage on Cape Cod. And he plans to use his share of the primary home sale to buy out of sisters. Cool. So, yeah, but my dilemma is, you know, emotionally my heart and my husband want to keep this Cape House. But my logical side says that we should probably sell both properties to pay off our mortgage faster and then become completely debt-free. What is faster? Yeah, thanks for the call. So faster, give us a real specific idea here.

words, if you don't sell these homes and put it all on your mortgage, when do you anticipate paying off your primary home? So we only bought it about two years ago. So we're looking at another 13 years or so, hopefully quicker. That's if you put nothing extra toward the principal, though. Right. Yes, exactly. What's your income?

We make around $310,000 a year. What's on the mortgage? What's left? $560. Okay. So I'm trying to find a compromise here, and I think I have one. What if we keep the cottage, but we agree to a plan to then pay off this home more aggressively? I'm surprised by that plan, but I think that sounds good. Why are you surprised? I thought we were going to be told to sell everything and pay off our primary.

Well, you're not in any kind of dire situation. You're not broke. You make $300,000. You guys are killing it. This is really an inheritance that he's just sort of rearranging. And here's the I love, George and I, of course, this is all live. I didn't know what he was going to say. Usually I disagree with Ken and I'm the more aggressive one and I'm actually pretty relaxed now. I couldn't agree more with George.

I want to be in this cottage in Cape Cod. I do too. That was the first thing. A cottage in Cape Cod doesn't come along very often was A. B. You told us that both you, and your husband's hearts were in the cottage. You were like, we love it.

And that was being for me. That was like, oh, there's the one-two punch. And then when I got the rest of the story, I, again, we always try to give advice on what would we do if we were in your shoes. And that's what I would do. I would keep this cottage and have fun with it, make memories. It's an asset. But I love the idea of him buying out his siblings. I think that's great.

Your cash flowing that. I just don't see any reason to not take this opportunity. What's your mortgage payment every month? It's around $4,000. Okay. So making $310,000, amazing income. Could we throw another $4,000 or $5,000 a month at this month? Could we just double it?

We could definitely take a look and get there. I think if we looked at the budget and sit down with your husband and go, okay, here's the deal. I called the Ramsey Show. Here's what they said. We get to keep the cottage, but we pay off this house in six years. Yeah, I think he would be completely on board. You can be thrilled. I'm going to throw a possibility that, again, I wouldn't do. So I want to say that I wouldn't do this, and you'll understand. But you could do it. You guys could, if you own that cottage free and clear now,

you're not going to be up there vacationing all the time. You could rent that and take that income and put it into the primary home and really speed this up. In other words, let's say, and this is way low, but let's say you cleared $50,000 on that cottage from renting it, and you put that towards your primary home just in one year. I mean, that's a pretty big chunk. I would consider that. I don't think you have to do it. We have considered that.

Yeah, we've considered renting because realistically we'll probably only be there three to four weeks. Again, that's something I would want it to keep it as mine, and I don't want people ruining my rent. but if you guys feel good about it, there's nothing, you're not violating any principles, and it could be a wise thing to do if you can make money off of it and it's paid for. So you're not trying to like arbitrage and, you know, well, they're paying the mortgage for us. You're covering the expense is just fine. The only other thing I would add to that is George and I would like the option of having a friends and family discount on said cottage. Yes, we have done that in the past.

There was a lot of hesitation there for the Camel Coleman. I think she thought I was serious. I was kidding. I would never do that. Just a joke. It was a bad joke. Yeah, we're not going to pay full price. You all are invited anytime. Come on down. No, I love it. I love this plan. And I think go use our mortgage payoff calculator at Ramsey Solutions.com and start to have some fun and dream with your husband and go, okay, if we did an extra $4,000 a month, we doubled a payment. We could pay it off in like six years.

And likely what happens is you paid off in four or five because you guys are so focused with one singular goal. And I think that's the key here. Be in agreement about every single decision and find some compromise. That's okay. Your husband's going to be thrilled. I'd get him some turtle necks, maybe some. Chowda, you know. How do you say it, George?

That was pretty close. Not bad. Yeah. I mean, Sarah doesn't have a thick Boston accent, so I feel like you're at least thicker than hers. Oh, good. I do like a thick chowder. I do too.

I do too. Thank you, Sarah. Wicked good call. This is the Ramsey show. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time.

A car accident, a cancer. diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long-term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance

steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price, no pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to Zander.com or call

800, 356, 4282. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. Hey, George, guess what? What? The all-new Every Dollar is here. That was a setup, Ken. I thought you really had something for it. I know. I kind of like to do that.

I almost said chicken butt, to be honest. They refrained. Wow, but yet you said it anyway. Yeah. So, there you go. So I met with the team the other day. The new Every Dollar is amazing. You hear this, and I go, I'll be the judge of that.

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I'm a little bit of a, not a true cynic. But you're like you want to see it to be. believe it. I would like to arrive at my own conclusion, not have a marketer tell me. So I had a meeting with the every dollar folks. You know what I was blown away by? What's that? The 12 to 15 minutes of questions when you initially get in there and I said to them, I go, this is literally a more robust version of someone calling in the show and getting our coaching. You're going to get

eight minutes, eight, nine minutes with us. 24-7 in your pocket is with every dog. And then I found out that for now, and I told the people the other day, I don't know how long Dave's going to let this one go. But you also can get a 10-minute call with a real live financial coach. That's right. In addition to the articles, the here's what you need to do. So I'm just telling you, when I say it's no longer a budgeting app, I mean it. It really is so interactive. The personal coaching, that's some of the best features in there.

It's a digital financial coach that, oh, by the way, has a phenomenal budgeting. functionality to it. That's my take. What do you say? I actually just came from a lunch with those guys, and they're showing me what they're working on. Mind blown. Oh, boy. The functionality that we're moving just past it being budgeting and more like, how do we track all the pieces of your financial life so you get a real holistic picture and you know what to do next? That's where this thing is heading and you can come along for the ride and check it out now. People where they get it. Go get it in the app store or Google Play. Just search every dollar. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes like Ken mentioned. You got nothing to lose, except maybe

your stress. Oh, well played. I see what you did there. Adam is up in Dallas, Texas. Adam, how can we help? Hi, how are you guys doing? Thanks for taking my call. We're doing great. What's going on with you? So my wife is an avid listener to your show. Oh, well, of course she is. You married a good woman. Tell her we said thank you. I did. All right. I did. I will. I honestly, just being honest, I don't listen to it very much unless she's in the car with me. But I have- Okay, let's put Adam on hold. Who's next? Who do we have next? I'm kidding, Adam. I'm kidding. Go ahead. But I have listened to the audible book, Money Makeover. And let me just say 95% of the things in there, I 100% agree with. It's preaching to the choir. But there's one thing that you guys preach that my wife agrees with, and I don't.

Oh, I love it. What is it? That is paying off your mortgage. I'll give you a little... What a silly idea. Right? No. So we have a $327,478 and 50 cent mortgage right now with a 3.625 interest rate. And I have been very adamantly against paying that off for the last several years,

because if we invest our money very conservatively, very safely, high-yield savings account, money market account. It's been at four and a half to five percent for the last several years. Just recently it got down to 3.8. And my question to you is why, oh, why would I pay off my mortgage when I can make more having it in conservative basically guaranteed money versus at 3.8 versus, you know, getting back 3.65 by paying it off. Adam, would you believe? Would you believe? 2.2,000 a year. Right. Now, would you believe you're the first person to ever hit us with that? I figured I wasn't, but again, I... Here's the question. You are not the first person. You are correct, sir. George Tell them why.

Do you have $327,000 sitting in that savings account? So not a savings. So we've got in money market account right now, we have enough to pay off our house. That's what I'm saying. So you have the money to pay it off. Oh, yes, sir. But you like to see it grow at 3.8. Which, by the way, you owe taxes on all the money you're making from that. You understand that. So it's not apples to apples already. The interest can be written off taxes.

Why so. The mortgage interest is what you're saying, because you guys itemize every year? Correct. Okay. So I can give you the logical math answer, and that's where you're going to want to spar. But it's so far beyond that. And what your wife is getting at, it's not about the math. She does not care if you guys could make $1,000 and you didn't that year because you paid off the mortgage.

Because the other part you're not taking into account is once you free up that mortgage payment, number one, you can invest that amount and you'll likely be back to where you were pretty quickly. I assume you guys have a great income the way you're talking. Pretty good, yes, sir. Okay. So can we agree that you could save up $300,000 pretty quickly with your income if you had zero debt? Yeah, absolutely. Okay.

Next question. Are you going to be broke in retirement if you pay off your mortgage and liquidate that investment account? No, absolutely not. So the argument is do I want 5.6 million in retirement when I am 63 or will it be 5.3 but with a paid for a mortgage? Can we agree that's kind of what we're, it's kind of like both scenarios are pretty great. We can agree there. Yeah. The other question, are you both working full time right now?

Yes. Now let's play this out. What if somebody lost their job had a health situation? There was a recession. all of the factors that can happen in life to where now you go, oh, gosh, I'd rather not have a mortgage when life comes at me. So that's why I have the money and things where I'm not going to lose. I'm not going to put this money in the S&P 500 or some one of the markets that can fluctuate day by day. This isn't something that is safe, like I was talking about, either high yield savings accounts or the money market to where I can take that money out any time. If we did lose our job or let's say the money market or high yield savings.

accounts got down to 3.5. I could just take that money and pay off the mortgage that day. Okay. Well, have fun having a disagreement in your marriage for the rest of your life. Oh, I'm kidding. Oh, George, that's not fair. Her security glance flaring up. It's not because of Ramsey. It's because there's something in her that knows that peace is more than just the spread. And that's what she's after. Nobody can come after your house. You own it free and clear. If life happens, you're going to be okay. and the truth is you're probably going to be okay either way. And so paying it off, do you really think you'd sit there and go, gosh, I could have made $5,000 this year off that savings account? Or are you going to go, man, it feels good to not have a mortgage, and the flexibility we now have the options we now have, the freedom we now have, was well worth it.

Yeah, and I agree. I think it's a little bit of both. I think nobody's ever going to regret not having a mortgage. Nobody's going to say, man, I wish I had my mortgage back. but, you know, part of me would always be like, ah, gosh, it's $2,000 this year I could have bought a new amount. How much do you guys make? You know, I do about $14,150 a year, and she does probably $200, $250. Okay.

So $2,000 is a drop in the bucket. It's like kind of saying, I'm doing the credit card game for the rewards. I like it in two grand free, and I know it's not a big amount, but it just feels nice. Right. Yeah, you know, I'm sitting here listening. I mean, by the way, I'm always on this side, like, either I'm on with Dave or I'm on with a money personality, and this call comes in, and I'm always just sitting here, you know, it's like letting them do it. And I'm like, and I'm just listening for what's really going on. And I think there's two things. I heard you say a minute ago, and George started talking, he talked over. He was so rude. So I didn't pick up what he said. But I thought you said about the $2,000 and then she's like, I could have about a mountain bike. Did you say that? Or am I hearing things? Yeah, I was just kidding around. But yeah. No, you weren't. But see, you weren't. I'm not a money expert, but I can tell you this. I've coached over 15,000 people live before. I'm an expert at hearing things and seeing things. And when I heard that, I went, that's not a joke. And I'm going to tell you what I think's going on with this thing between you and your wife. Because George has explained it beautifully. So I have nothing to add to that. But let me tell you what I think's going on. Your wife is looking at this emotionally and you're looking at this logically. And I think you look at all money.

things as logic. Nothing wrong with that at all. You're a smart guy. You're not a goofball. You're not a loser. You've been very wise with money. I just think you're going to have to decide in this situation how important is it to me to make the $2,000 every year and either bank it or buy the mountain bike off of my interest and I feel so good about my logical choice or do I want to meet my wife where she is and where she is emotionally and help her feel safe. I think that's the choice. That's my read. And I think you just look at totally different than she does. I think you need to walk a mile on her shoes for a little bit. The question is, is it worth paying 12 grand on an interest to make 12 grand on a savings account? Basic math tells me it's a wash, dude. I'm just going to pay it

off and get some peace in my life. And happy wife. I'll take that as a bonus. We all want peace. Peace with our money, our homes, our schedules, but having peace online is important too. Most of the time when you sign up for a coupon, enter a giveaway, or click yes to another email list. Your personal info, like your name, your phone number, your address gets collected and sold by data brokers. And before you know it, your inbox is overflowing, your phones full of spam calls, and your data is floating around who knows where. That is why I love what Delete Me does. Their team of privacy experts finds your personal info on those creepy data broker sites, gets it removed, and keeps it off. It is simple, it's safe, and it gives you more peace of mind.

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more money. Let's get to it. You ready to go, George? I'm pumped. Natalie is joining us in Sacramento. No, Natalie, how can we help? Hi, I was just curious if my husband and I should use part of our savings to start to pay off our loans faster, or if we should just keep that in the bank. Tell us more. How much do you have in the bank? My husband and I are both veterans. We have about $12,500 in savings. Okay, and what's your debt situation?

We have about $87,298 in debt. We have two student loans and a new car and a credit card. Okay, give us those amounts, walk as smallest or largest, like we would be working through the debt snowball. Yeah, the credit card is 1903, so 1,903. The student loan is 19-581. The other one is 20,978, and then the car loan is 44-836. What is this car? Yeah.

So it's a 22 four-runner. And what is it worth? Kelly Blue Book value, do you know? I don't. Okay. Wow. How many miles is it? Just over 30,000.

And it's a 2022. I'm going to do a little research, George. Okay, while you do that, what is your household income? So our income is, I have this, between the two paychecks is $4,960, and then we get VA disability. and that's about 4,080, 4,090. Okay, good. So we have a great income here because you guys are bringing home nine grand. Yeah.

Correct? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I think one thing that could alleviate this immediately, you're asking the best way to pay this off. Yes, you should use your savings except $1,000. That's the baby steps.

Baby step one, $1,000, baby step two, attack the debt using the debt snowball. So anything that's not the $1,000 starter emergency fund, we're going to use to start knocking down this debt. Because that will knock out your credit cards and a good portion of one of the student loans. Yeah. And if I'm in your shoes and you really want to get out of the situation, I would just sell this forerner. Now, you might be underwater on it, which is what Ken was angling at. They are. This is an estimate.

And I don't have all the details of where you are in the market. But you're underwater. It's somewhere between $32,000 to $40,000. So that's your next homework assignment is figure out what you could sell this car for, private party value. So you can go to kbb.com and look at that to see, hey, if we could sell it for 40, you mean 044, great. We're going to use 4,000 of the savings to clear the title and maybe use some of the other money in savings to get a different car, right? You need something to drive around in? You're both working full-time?

Yeah, his truck is paid off, so it's just. this now. My car died, so I had to get a new one. That's kind of right. Hold on. Hold on, Oh, whoa. Whoa. You didn't have to get a 40. You didn't have to get a. I know. You didn't have to get a, you're right. I know. I know. So what's your car payment? $60, wait, $667. All right. Just for fun. I want you to just, you know, figure out what that would do to your monthly budget. That's a lot of money. You would get an $8,000. That's a net race. So that's more like 11 or 12. $12,000 gross. Yeah. So imagine I just started giving you $1,000 a month. Would you go yip-de-de-do?

Yeah. That's what selling that car will do for you. And you have to look at it that way. Or else it's Ken and Georgia mean. They're not fun. They're telling me it's unrealistic. Well, it's not. But, you know, getting a piece of junk that gets you from point A to point B for this season of your life.

This is for a season. This is not like forever. I think that's huge for you. What caused you guys to want to actually turn this ship around? I've been listening to you guys on YouTube a lot the past month. So we just got into your head? Because we didn't show up. You had to be kind of looking for us.

We want to move out of California, and we want to eventually adopt and get a house and all that. And I know we cannot do that with all this debt. We need to work on this debt now. Good. Is your husband on board? Is he as fired up as you are? Oh, yeah, completely. And you've got the income.

Completely. He's actually wanting me to spend more to pay towards the debt than we have been. What's stopping you? I've been trying to build up our savings. I'm thinking about putting money down on our house. No, no, no, no, no. That's too far in the future. I know.

I see that now. I see that now. Well, but you've been listening to us for a month. So have you heard us talk about the baby steps? So I don't want to just assume anything. Yes. Okay. And that's why I'm like, okay, well, I've done step one.

Technically, I'm on step two, but I have part of step three. But I need to just stop and do it step by step. Well, you've got 12-5 in savings. Let's get right back to the start of your phone call as we've now dug into this. So what do we tell people to do if they've got $12,500 in savings and they have debt? What do we tell them? Pay it towards the debt. How much?

How much do we take out of that $12,000? 12-5. Well, I'm assuming it's going to be the 11-5. You got it. Tell her what she's won, George. Raise to the tune of $1,000 once we sell this car. So here's what I would consider doing, instead of using these savings to pay down the debt,

I would get out of this car situation first. And so you might be underwater by a few grand. That's true. Let's use that to clean that up. Then we're going to take, let's say, another $6,000 or $7,000 and get yourself a used, reliable car to a pre-purchase, inspection. It's probably going to have 100,000 plus miles on it. It's probably going to have some stains that you'd rather not see. But this is for a season. This is not your forever car. This is like

a year or two max as we get to a place of financial stability because you told me you want to adopt. That's a big dream of yours, isn't it? You want to have your own place, your own house in a different state. That's a big dream of yours, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So that dream is bigger than a vehicle. We can always get another car, can't we? Yeah. So most of that savings, not most, but a good chunk of it's going to go to whatever this beater is, right? And I'm thinking

a $5,000 car max. That clears half your debt. That's huge. That's huge. That's huge. And all that money, that car payment now goes into the debt snowball. That's huge. You can make some real ground up, can't you? Yeah. So your husband's right. It's rare that we say this on the show. It's mostly the wife is usually right.

right. And I've been married 27 years, so I'm conditioned to say my wife is right. But in this case, your husband's right. You need to be putting more into this. And you guys are rice and beans. If Dave were here, he'd be going, you guys don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're waiting tables. And it's rice and beans, beans and rice. And you guys are just absolutely on fire to get this out of your life. That same intensity continues into that emergency fund of three to six months, now we can begin to save for the house and begin to chart. Check this out. You knock out this car, you got 42 left, and you start throwing four or five grand a month at it. You're done with this in eight months.

Woo! I like that. And so this house is going to be a whole lot closer versus keeping this car around while it goes down in value. You stay underwater. I think this thing is tanking your financial future. Get rid of it. You know what Bear Grills would say? What's that?

Jolly good. Spot on. Not quite. I'm working on. Buying and selling a home is a big deal, and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit Ramsey Solutions.com slash agent.

Ramsey Solutions.com slash agent. Welcome back, America. Thrill that you've joined us here on the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is with me. The phone number is AAA 8255-225. Back to the phones we go. Steve is joining us now in Houston.

Steve, how can we help? Yeah, hey, thanks, Ken and George, for taking my call. I've got a question. When my son and daughter were born, my wife and I made lump-sum contributions to their 529s and their UTMA account, and now they're 9 and 12, and those accounts have grown to be over $1.3 million. Wow. I wanted to ask you guys what you thought we should be doing to prepare them,

whether we have wills and other things, what we should be doing to prepare them for the future. So these are not college savings plans? Half of the lump sum went into a five-term. 29 for each of them and then half went into a UTMA account for kind of ancillary expenses they might have. Okay. And total those add up to 1.3 million? Today, right.

Okay. And how old are the kids? Nine and 12th? Oh, wow. What was the lump sum? The initial lump sum for each of the 529s was $141,000. We had saved before they were born and made that contribution when they were. That's incredible.

Okay. And do we think we're going to use, obviously, a portion of this for college expenses? You know, it's hard to say. I'd like to say that they'll make their own decision when the time comes. You know, I have my own feelings, but it's, I think they'll use the 529s, at least some of it. Okay. And the Uttmas, you got the UTMAs, those will transfer to them. I don't know what they're in Texas, what the laws are, but is it 18 or 21?

Okay. depending on your state. So I would look that up to see. Okay, yeah, I'm not sure. Because that's the downside of the upma is your kid, it'll be legally in their name at, you know, 18, a million bucks. Yeah. And so they can do what they want with that as adults. And so that's a, there's a risk there.

I hope they grow up to be, you know, well-adjusted kids who use the money for good and they buy their first home and cash and do all kinds of amazing things. Because you guys, I'm guessing, have set them up for that. That's the goal. That's the goal. already listening to you guys. So, good. Hopefully they do, they do exactly what you said. Okay. So what is your question today specifically?

What, what else should we be doing? I mean, they're not, like I said, we have, we have our own resources and we have wills and a trust set up for ourselves, my wife and I, but what should we be doing for them? Well, as they, you know, a nine-year-old doesn't have any assets.

A 12-year-old doesn't have any assets. So as they get of age of 18 or 21, and those accounts go into their names, that's when I would say, hey, let's now set them up with their own wills. Okay, so that's not something we would need to address now. We would just wait until they're, say, 21 or 18. Exactly. Because right now you're still, you still maintain the management of that account of both of those accounts. That's right.

And so if something did happen to, you know, you or your spouse, well, you have in your will, here's what happens. Here's the beneficiaries on all of these accounts. And so all of that is already in place. And with your trust, you can set those. up to say, hey, at 21, here's what we want to do for each kid. At 30, here's what we're going to do for the kids. So you can set that up how you wish and the trust, but there's nothing else to do. You guys have done a great job. I mean, obviously it's, quote, overfunded, but you can always change the beneficiary on the 529 plan to someone else in the greater family.

Okay. Well, that's good to know. They could use it for their kids and their kids. So you've kind of created generational wealth that way, which is amazing. Okay. So I would look into the laws of how soon you have to use that money. There's some new things with the Secure 2.0 Act where you can transfer a portion, $35,000 total over to a Roth IRA. So there's a lot of things you can do there. I would definitely, I hope you have a trustworthy investment professional in your life. If not, go to Ramsey Solutions.com and get connected over there. Yeah. That's incredible. What a way to set up your kids. I'm staggered by that. That amount is unbelievable. So my goodness, I almost wanted to say to him, and I love the vice you gave, but I almost wanted to say that, well, you've done enough.

You've done plenty, my man. You've done well, Steve. Way to go. And the fact that a 9 and 12-year-old are listening to us, they need to get outside, Ken. They probably do, or else they're going to look as pale as you. That's true. I could use some sign. I'm not on the pickleball court as often.

Yeah. But do you have an aversion to vitamin D? I mean, what's the problem? Well, you know, I'm working in here all day. A lot of fluorescence. What are you doing on the weekend? I got a one-year-old, man. Take her to the park.

Wow. No, now I'm a bad dad all of a sudden. Well, I need some vitamin D. Let's go to Rebecca, who joins us in Orlando, Florida. Rebecca, how can we help? Thank you for taking my call. My husband and I are new empty nesters. We are baby step three, and I will be inheriting about $50,000 next spring.

We have $2,000 and $50,000 and for our retirement. And once I turn 65, I'll have a small pension of about $500 a month. I was just wondering in the next 13 years or so that we have before retirement, isn't smart to even aim for or try to be a snowbird. We live in Florida now, but we're from Ohio. My husband has always wanted to move back. And I have always wanted to grow up and be a snowbird one day, where I lived half the year in one state and half the year in the other.

Is that something Dave ever recommends? I don't think he's against that. I've never heard him speak negatively toward it. The one thing, I mean, financially speaking, you'd pay cash for that other property. Right. So in that, in that mind, we own our home now, but we owe about 120 on it. It's worth $250. We're in Florida now.

So, I mean, we've got about halfway paid off. The $50,000 inheritance is going to go right at that. And you like where you're at? pay that off. But we're not determined to stay here. It's like I would be fine with a one-bedroom or a tiny house in retirement if I could live in both states. My husband would stick some space.

Yeah. I mean, six months out of the year, that's a big chunk. That's not exactly a week. And so I would look at properties that were you could stay all year if you wanted to that are comfortable enough. But I see nothing wrong with your plan as long as we are paying off the mortgage. have the emergency fund in place. We're investing for the future. We have a solid nest egg. So don't go rob your retirement in order to pay cash for this property in Ohio.

You want to make sure that we're saving up for that separately over the next, you know, decade or whatever your timeline is. It's doable. We just want you to be smart about it. Do you know if it's smarter to rent the half a year and just own a home in one state? I know Dave's like, you know, you don't want to own property in another state or far away from you because you have to manage it and whatever it. If you're talking about renting it out, would you guys want to rent it out the other half of the year? Would that be the goal?

No, probably not. You just want to keep a few. So Dave doesn't want strangers in his house where he's going to stay half the year. I can tell you that. But other people can, and that's perfectly fine. So is the question, would you rent in Ohio for half the year and then go back to Florida? Or vice versa. yes because right now like I know the homes around here rent for about 2,000 a month and the winter

month I live basically in the village what would rent cost you in uh what would rent cost you in ohio it's I think it would be around 1,300 a month right now course you know 13 years from i think i don't know what george thinks but george is also not as fun as i am and he doesn't he's not as carefree and spontaneous and i'll admit that i but i don't i don't hate that idea as long as it's in the budget. In other words, because if you get tired of it, you still get your place in Florida. And it feels like we're starting to go, hey, it would kind of be fun to go back to Ohio for a while from our roots. But we really like Florida. So it feels like Florida is the anchor. So renting in Ohio, A, it's cheaper. Now, the only thing is it's a nuisance unless you find some deal with

somebody where they go, hey, you know, we'll rent it out the other six months and you guys got first dips. It's a little bit of a nuisance. That's going to be hard to find. But I don't hate that idea. Can I show you some numbers? Because I agree with Ken. There's nothing wrong with renting. And I would test it out for the first year by doing that. But look at this, $2,000 a month for six months, 12 grand a year, right?

Mm-hmm. So let's say the house was $400,000 you could buy. Well, you could rent for 33 years before you've spent $400,000 in rent. Yeah. Now, you don't own an asset at the end of that. But if that's the choice you make, that's totally fine if you don't want to hassle with it. But then again, you've got to find a place to rent every single year for six months, which might be difficult on its own.

I don't know many places would let you do that. I agree. But the spontaneous nature of it, I also think you're not paying for the housing expenses, like all the upkeep. It's kind of intriguing. I kind of like, let me do it for a year or two. And then if you want to buy, you go buying cash. I tried to talk to a season and let us rent our place for Thanksgiving and make some big cash.

She said no. This is the Ramsey show. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Winning at money is 80% behavior and 20% head knowledge. What to do isn't the problem. Doing it is. In her brand new book, What No One Tells You About Money,

Jade Warshaw dives deep into the reasons you've been stuck. This book exposes the real emotional fight with money and shows you how to win that battle. Pre-order now for $2499, and you'll get over $100 of free bonus items. Get your copy today at ramsysolutions.com slash store. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show where we help you win with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, George Campbell, joins me.

We're so excited that you're with us. On the debt-free stage out there are Lucas and Alexis. Welcome. Thank you. How you guys doing? How you're doing? Good, good, good, good. And that tells me you're here to do a debt-free scream.

Is this true? This is true. Okay, great. Where are you guys from? We're from Clarksville, Tennessee. Okay, not far away. It's right up the road. Okay, very nice.

Traffic was good this morning, I hope. It wasn't too bad. Okay, nice, nice, nice. All right, let's get the details. How much debt did you pay off? We paid off $81,188. $81,88? $88?

$88? $188? Excuse me. George, I don't know what's going on with my voice here. We'll get you there. Yeah, I took a week off for spring break, and it's like my vocal cords are gone. I don't know what's going on. And how long did that take?

It took 14 months. 14 months. Okay, and what was your range of income during that time? Range of income was 72,000 all the way up to about 86,000. Okay, great. What do you guys do for a living? I'm military. Okay. Can I stay home with the children?

Yay. Love that. That's awesome. And what branch of military are you in? Army. Okay, great. Thank you for your service. Thanks for your support.

Yeah, absolutely. All right, so take us to 14 months ago. What happened that made you guys decide to get on this journey? Well, it was about nine months before we started. that our first born Layla over there, she was born, and she just turned two the other day. Well, we transitioned to one income, and, you know, we were doing okay, but we weren't really just weren't saving enough that we wanted to. We weren't investing as much as we wanted to. We knew that we wanted to optimize things in one way or another, and so we found the Ramsey

show, and I started listening to it on my commute to work, and I brought it to Alexis here, and I said, hey, I think we can maybe pay our debt off in a year. maybe a little bit more. That's how it worked out. But she took it and she did a budget for us and she said, wow, I think I think we could do this. And so that's exactly what we did. And we just kind of stepped it in gear from there. And then just recently we had Clear here. She's three months old. So fun. So what I understand here, this was, there wasn't a lot of pushback at all, if any, from Alexis. In fact, she probably made the idea of reality, sounds like. That's correct. Wow. What kind of debt was it? It was student loans. It was a personal loan. It was a car loan, a little bit of credit card,

and some medical debt, a little bit of everything. Yeah, you had a nice little buffet. A little pot-peri, if you will. Cornucopia. That's even better. So were you guys just normal? Like, how long you've been married now? Almost three years. And you'd never been debt free. You got married, had some debt, kept some debt, accrued some debt. And then there was this wake-up call when you go down to one income, we were like, all right things are tight this is not as fun as i thought it would be even with the blessing of children and so you got your butts in gear and just 14 months into this thing it's gone now and you got your income back in your life what's next for you guys well i'm just really excited to start building that emergency fund up eventually start investing and then saving for our girls

college and then yeah taking it from there so and you guys i mean you look very young can you tell us. 27. Wow. I'm 25. 25 and 27 and you got this stuff out of your life. And I love that there was no excuses made. You didn't sit and wallow and pity and go, well, this is life. This is the American way. Collect our payments. Someone will forgive the student loans at some point. These credit card companies, at least them get my 2%. You guys actually woke up to this. Was there a tool, a resource, something that gave you that new knowledge? Well, the podcast gave us a lot of inspiration and specifically the debt-free screen. We always listened to it when we traveled and when we just took simple trips through the city and everything.

And we drew a lot of inspiration from other people. And that's exactly why we wanted to come here today and do our debt-free scream. Yeah. Talk about the community of people that you had with you. Oh, yeah. So my parents are here with us. They were some of our biggest true leaders. And then I've got to shout out my grandparents.

They were doing the Ramsey plan before the Ramsey plan was cool. Yeah. So we drew a lot of inspiration from them as well. Just common sense, debt-free living. That's correct. Oh, that's incredible. So you got some other young couples, you got middle-aged couples, maybe you've got some older couples that are listening right now. Yes, we do.

What would you tell them? We have some good friends, Adam and Emily Fisher. They're actually going through the plane right now. Oh, good. Yeah, so they kept us in it, and we're keeping it, you know, with them and we're, you know, stay in the path together. Yeah, make the budget and stick to it. So for you, it's budget, budget, that's the key. All right.

Anything else, Lucas? What's the key? Budget's big. I think consistency is also a big thing. know life happens and you got to replace the tires and the car breaks down, but you can't let it take you too far off the path. You got to get right back on and get back into it. Well, I know you've inspired a whole new set of people out there, so you're paying this forward, especially for those service members out there. I mean, the difference that it makes when you're

debt-free and you're making the sacrifice, but you're not worried about the finances at home, that makes all the difference. It really does. That's huge. I love it. All right, so are we ready? Are we going to get the little's in there? Can we get the kiddos up here? I mean, I think we can. It looks like, is it Claire the youngest? Yeah. She looks like she's out cold.

She's about to wake up from the scream anyways. So we'll see. And the two-year-olds meandering somewhere around the lobby. There she goes. With the parents. Okay, good. We got the kiddos. All the support.

So we got Layla, who's two, and Claire is a newborn. I hope you're watching on YouTube America because this might be the cutest family. You'll see today. Super, super cute. Okay. All right, here we go. Let's run it down. We got Lucas and Alexis, along with Claire and Layla.

They're from Clarksville, Tennessee, and they paid off $81,188 over 14 months, making $72,000, up to $86,000. Lucas and Alexis, take it away. Let's hear your death-free screen. Three, two, one, we're debt-free. There it is. These aren't crying. The baby survived it. I like that.

And we've got a special gift for you guys as well. that we forgot to mention two every dollar gift cards. Good for a one-year membership. So you guys can use those every-dollar memberships or you can pay them forward to someone else to get them on the journey. But you said the key is budgeting. And so you will enjoy that for sure

as you continue your financial journey. Yeah, that every dollar premium because a lot of bells and whistles and makes life a lot easier. 100%. That is your gift. And you get to give one away to somebody. I like that idea.

I like the two. Maybe you give both away if they already have it. But, you know. That is true. Or use it for yourself. There's no judgment here. No judgment at all. It's free.

It's Dave's stuff. You and I love to give away Dave's stuff for free. It costs us nothing and it makes Ken look good. That's right. We love it. It's like a bumper sticker. I like that. You know, it's interesting, George, when we, because this is really cool, we've got a 27 and a 25-year-old.

And I think it's important to kind of, we've got new people that are joining the show all the time. So maybe this is the first debt-free screen that some people have ever heard or seen. Yeah. I mean, just set the table right now. Okay. So let's say they're making. the 86 or maybe somewhere between the 72 and 86. Now they're debt-free. And so now they begin the process of whether it's baby step three, then 3B, you know, and then they start that 15%.

I want you to paint a picture to what wealth looks like for this young couple at their age. He's 25. Let's say they get through three in the next year. And they begin investing it. Let's say he's 26. Well, from 26 to, let's say, 62. That's fair, right? Sure. And in military, he'll probably retire early with some beautiful benefits there. But let's just take 86,000 and take 15% of that. Well, that's 12.9. And so every month, they could invest $1,075. And let's say they start from zero.

That 1,075 every single month with an average return of about 10%, which is what we've seen, is $4.5 million. At 62 years old. Drop it down to 8%. All right, let's go down to 8%. Just for the cynics. More conservative. 2.7 million.

Okay. I'd still take that. And that's outside of any other investing they do. That's saying he never gets a raise. That doesn't include his military retirement. So this is just the process as we teach it. And you look at doing it that young. It's really huge.

And this is great too because this is a young couple that had, again, normal situations, all different types of debt, $81,000. They knocked it out really quick. That's really dual. I mean, $81,000, if you just look at that and you go, that's a lot of money to pay off for a young couple. They did it in 14 months. While cash flowing some things, we didn't get into that.

Yeah. And with a stay-at-home spouse, that's huge. So they went from two incomes to one. So we're not pitching get-rich stuff here, quick stuff. We're not pitching, you know, this unbelievably impossible thing that only a few fortunate souls accomplish. Yeah, there was no trust funds, no lottery winners here, just hard work and sacrifice. It's doable. And that's why I love the story.

So good stuff. All right. We're going to go out and celebrate with it. with Lucas, Alexis, Layla, and Claire, and George, don't kiss the babies. I stay away. Okay? That's a little creepy these days. Don't do that.

We'll be back right after that with more of your calls. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. Our scripture today comes from Deuteronomy 11, verse 12. It is a land the Lord your God cares for. The eyes of the Lord your God are continually on it from the beginning of the year to its end. Our quote from Thomas Soul.

My favorite New Year's resolution was to stop trying to reason with unreasonable people. This has reduced both my correspondence and my blood pressure. That's a good one. The great Thomas Soul always still hits, dropping the quotes. Timeless. Like they're hot. Dave is joining us in Maui, Hawaii. Dave, how can we help?

Aloha. Aloha, sir. Boy, wish I was with you right now, pal. Set a next to George. I know. Yeah. But such is life. So in a nutshell, I, 55, no retirement, credit is shot.

I own, oh, about 190, 195 on my mortgage. My real estate's worth about $4 million. Whoa. Yeah, well, back in 2004, when they were handing out mortgages like candy, I bought three homes, and so I have, you know, whatever, rental property and then a home that I live in. How much do you owe on the $4 million worth of property? $1.95. Oh, that's not bad.

But here's the kicker. Here's the kicker. Okay. So I owe $200,000 in taxes that I haven't filed. Why? When's the last time you filed? Yeah, because I sold two years ago, because I sold a home. And then I bought, you know, like I said, they were handing out, you remember that when they were.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we're trying to follow it. Where's the cash? Where's the cash that you made? I bought another home. I bought two more homes and I paid them off cash, yeah, in cash. but I didn't pay the taxes on that sale. So what's your question for us?

I guess I got to pay the taxes. Well, that's not a question. That's a fact. Well, but I don't have the money. So I guess I got, I got a sell. You know, I have three kids. I just put one through college. I have another one in college.

I, you know. Well, let me tell you something. This is, this reminds me of a football game scenario. All right. You got, you got no timeouts. and you got to go to the Hail Mary. That's all you got. You got to sling it to the end zone.

Your least favorite property. And so that's the Hail Mary in this one. You don't have any other options. You've got to pay these taxes. You're going to jail, Dave. Am I missing something? No. Okay.

So, I mean, that's really what we've got to do here. You've got to sell one of these properties. Dude, out of all the people you could owe money to, the IRS is the worst one. They are the most powerful collections agency in the right. world. They can garnish your wages. They can seize your assets. So do you want to do it the hard way or do you want to do it the easy way where you're in control? What's your least favorite property? What's it worth? What could you sell it for? A million. Okay. So you sell it for a million? Hold on a second. I got to jump back. But Dave, I don't understand why you're so like, ugh, oh, I know.

I mean, you literally sold and made money on something. You made a billion dollars. You did not pay your taxes. Yeah, I know, but this is Hawaii, so it's different here than it would be in Wisconsin. So what are the taxes owed if you sell this property? No, time out. We're getting off subject again. I was making a point.

Dave, you're acting. No, not football, but you're acting as though like this is this, oh, I can't believe I got. This was always a part of the deal. No, because I want my kids to have. you know, they will. They can visit you in jail if you want while you have these properties. That could be fun. We're only talking about one house to clear this debt.

Yeah, yeah. So let's rock through this. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I'm just stressed out about it. Dave, I know. Dave, listen to me. Dave, listen to me.

I know you're stressed and you're not thinking clearly. And George and I would like to help you think clearly. Will you let us help you think clearly? Yeah. Okay, let's walk through this, George. George is going to walk you through this. What are your taxes owed? There you go.

On the property sale. What will you owe in taxes? Do them out. I don't know. What do you mean? I don't know. On the house that I haven't sold yet? Yes.

Yeah, there'll be a what? Capital gains tax on it? Yeah, I mean, I've had the property for 20 years. Let me ask this a simpler way. Dave, the property that we're saying, one of your properties, we're saying to sell to clear all this mess up. What will you walk away with, my friend? When the deal is done, what will you walk away? with? Maybe six.

$600,000. How much do we owe the IRS? Because I got to pay the two. I got to pay the two. Dave, let me do the talking. You answer. Dave, let me walk you through this. I'm going to be better at this than you. All right? You're going to walk away with $600,000. How much do you owe the IRS? 200. Great. So we pay that. How much does that leave you left over? Well, so if I sell it for a million, then... He's saying he'll have six after he pays the IRS.

I don't know why this is so difficult to answer these questions. Dave, sell a house. And after I paid the tax on that, too, so I'm figuring 200, another 200 maybe or more? Let's just guesstimate, 200 in taxes for the property sale, and 200 pay back the IRS. You have 600 left. You can pay off your own mortgage with that. So you got 600,000 you got out of this mess, my friend. That's what we're trying to help you understand.

This is easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're sitting there going. I don't want to get rid of one of the properties. Again, you want to go to jail? They're going to seize your assets. It's not a choice that you get to make of just avoiding paying taxes. The question is, do you want to do it now on your terms or on their terms later?

And I'm telling you, you want to do it now on your terms. So your real estate portfolio will go down to $3 million and you can wipe your tears with $100 bills. I don't care. Yeah, none of us are feeling bad for you right now. Dave, you're really kind of blessed to be able to get out of this hole. Really blessed. I mean, holy smokes. And then with the other money, with more profits, I'm paying off the mortgage and I'm saying no to debt ever again. It's what got you in this mess in the first place.

Yeah. And so we got real starry-eyed with the real estate portfolio. It's time to take a step back and go, all right, I'm 55. I've been living with a lot of stress. The next 20, 30 years of my life, I want peace. I want to retire with dignity one day. And that might mean I need to slow down on my real estate guru tactics here and start putting away money in retirement, and start diversifying the portfolio

and living on less than I make. I mean, this really is, you talk a lot about traps. This is a great example. We're not picking on Dave. Dave's a smart guy. Thankfully, Dave can get out of this mess. He's done very well. But this is the trap of, I've got all this stuff.

And I got, oh, I mean, he literally was like, I got to pay my taxes. And if anyone understands, you know, not when he pay taxes, it's Ken Coleman. I don't like taxes at all. I mean, I'd go throw tea in the harbor of the today. He would have been there. You know what?

I would have been there. I would have been on the ship throwing the tea into the harbor. But the bottom line is you've got to pay the taxes. And all of this gain, to your point, doesn't matter if your life gets ruined because the IRS wants to make a poster boy out of you. And here's what I do. When I'm in a pickle like this, and it's beyond my pay grade,

I reach out to an expert. And in this case, Dave needs a great tax pro. So I would jump on to ramesiesolutions.com slash tax, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro who can help you bring facts to the table. Right now it's a lot of unknowns. It's a lot of just feared and stress. And I don't even know how much taxes I can.

And what would the taxes be on that? Well, a tax pro will just help you go, all right, here's what the taxes would be. Here's the most efficient, strategic way to do this. Here's how to deal with the IRS. And they're not going to be scared. They're not going to bat an eyelash at this. And again, to new listeners, okay, you've been listening to this call. This is, I'm going to go back to the football analogy.

Do you want to be stuck with no timeouts, five seconds left in the game, and hope for a miracle through a Hail Mary? Is it a fourth down situation? No, you want to have a good game plan. There's no need for all the stress. There's no need for this stuff. Just run the baby steps like it's a play. This is what we do on first down.

This is what we do on second down. This is what we do on third down. And here's the deal. Guess what? We know how it's going to turn out. You know, we know if we run the ball this way and everybody executes their blocks, we're going to get a first down.

Nobody wins the sugar ball accidentally. You got to be intentional. You got to get a game plan and you got to practice and you got to stay with it. So there it is. Go dogs. No Hail Marys. No Hail Marys. Are you really rooting for Georgia?

You don't even know who they are. I know you love them. Doesn't that make me a great friend? You are a good friend. All right. Good show today. Thanks to David Fortin, our fearless producer, keeping us on the air. My goodness.

I don't know how he does it. In spite of ourselves. Thank you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey Show.