The Ramsey Show - Money Magnifies What You Already Are

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. this is the Ramsey show well as you can tell we got a brand new studio sponsor and we did a little bit of a new opener been working on our opener a little bit the other one kind of sucked so we worked on a little bit and we're pumped about uh this new studio sponsor fair wins credit union these guys are

absolutely incredible they've been a a partner for a while now and you guys know if you listen to dave ramsie for about 30 seconds that i pretty much hate the big banks, you know, like why you would do business with Bank of America and get mistreated the way they mistreat all their customers is beyond me. Why you would do business with fifth third is beyond me. Why you would do business with Chase, I have no idea what's wrong with you if you're doing that. I don't get it because they just, they just treat you like crap and you give them your money to do that. Instead, we work with small regional banks and we've been an endorser of credit unions nationwide for off and on for 30 years since I started the show

because I'm a huge fan of credit unions. And the main reason is this, credit unions work different. They're not a bank. They are non-profit. And the weird thing is the people that are the customers or the members actually are the owners. Now, you don't get to go in there and say, I want that desk. It's not yours, okay?

You're not that kind of an owner. But you're a stockholder, so to speak, in a nonprofit. Now, what that means mathematically is, is if there is a profit made, and there has to be for them to stay open, they turn it back to customer services, reduced interest rates on loans, increased interest rates on savings accounts, and other free things like cool free things they do for Ramsey people all the time at Fairwinds. So I've been a big fan of credit unions for a long time. Fairwinds came along. We started working with them about a year ago, and they're absolutely incredible.

I love credit unions. You need to do business with a financial institution that actually cares about. you and this is why we endorse fair wins and now they've stepped up their partnership and they are our new studio sponsor here for the ramsie shop they've been in business for over 75 years they served hundreds of thousands of members worldwide they partner with more than 5,000 credit union locations other credit unions around the country in a partnership so you can bank wherever you live so it's totally click and mortar 33,000 fee free ATMs Deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to 250,000.

So you've got the same level of insurance you would with a stupid bank. And they've created a combined checking. This is the important part in high-yield savings account bundle for Ramsey fans. The high-yield savings account is competitive with national digital banks, built for people who want to stay out of debt and a good place to park and get that old emergency fund kicking, right? No credit traps. It's built to align with the baby steps. Interest rate isn't some bait and switch thing.

It's designed to support Ramsey fans as you get your emergency fund and you save with intention. And now, along with the studio sponsorship, we're introducing something very cool. The new Ramsey debit card with fair wins. And this is cool because right on the front of the card it says, dead as normal, be weird. So as soon as you're checking out, you're going to get a response from the waiter. you're like what you're going to get a response from the girl at target trying to sell you a credit card she's going to be saying what i can't do it i got this that's you know that's normal i don't

want to be normal i'm weird look at my card is it here can i show you my card can i show you my card you know i mean it just changes everything right it's not a payment method it's a daily reminder that you're working the baby steps and that you're not going to go in debt and it is a ramsie debit card at fair wins so you can see why these guys are not typical they're aligned with us. We're excited for you to have them, for you to check them out. And you guys haven't been around us for a while because we've added millions of people in the past six months or a year. You guys don't know how hard we are on endorsements. We don't endorse everything. We endorse stuff we believe in. And I've got a rule. I started the rule. I endorsed a couple things in my early

days of talk radio because I was broke and desperate that I wished I wasn't. And I was ashamed to one of my friends came up and said, would you do that? And I said, no, John, I wouldn't do that. You're my friend. But I did put it on the radio. Well, that's just, that's just lying. That's just insincere. That's hypocritical. So I got it so embarrassed. I said, I'm never doing it again. And our rule for our sales team has always been no endorsements of any kind, for any of our Ramsey personalities, unless we're willing to send our mama there, our best friend there. And would I tell you to go over there? And if not, if we can't feel that good about it, we don't need the money. we got plenty of money we're stacking money around here it's not a problem okay profits are not an

issue at ramsie all right so we don't need the money so we're very very selective and very careful can you imagine how hard we are to work with if you're in the banking sector i mean just saying it pisses me off right and so can you imagine the poor people at fair winds what they have been through and they're wonderful people but they they kept going well you don't want our money no we're going we're going just let this. We're going to make sure everything's okay first. And you know what? They've been wonderful. They're incredible folks. They do have a great track record. And they got great hearts. We've gotten to know the executive team there. They do a great job. And so we're really excited. Easy to join fairwins. Dot org slash Ramsey. That's where you go. Fairwinds.org,

nonprofit.org slash Ramsey. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. and I'm super pumped that we now have a dead as normal be weird ramsie debit card out there in the wild this is cool john it's very cool it's going to be the new um it's like the alternative to the black card right that that was like ooh now when somebody whips out the be weird card yeah it's like the polar opposite end exactly yeah like i didn't pay 75000 dollars for this that's right I didn't pay $7,500 for this. And how cool would it be, how cool would it be if there was a movement across the country when people put their, their Ramsey debit card, their debt is normal, be weird, debit card.

I'm getting out of debt, is what this says. But they also knew, oh, these are the most generous folks out there. They're going to tip us well, too. We know these, we know these men and women. They're a different character. You know what? We need to just to make that an assignment right now. How cool would that be?

Do not get a Ramsey debit card if you cheap out on waiters. We don't want you. No. If you're not going to load up the waiter with your Ramsey debit card, load them up, baby. Load up who anybody – you got a tip heavy if you got this. So there is a tax on this thing. There's a tip tax, but it's a generosity tax, and it's a good muscle to flex. I like this.

I like it, John. You just invented something right here on the air. Well, there we go. There we are. It's pretty scary. I get one a year. That's good. I like that a lot.

But I love the idea of waiters walking back to the back to run the card and then going, ha-ha, like showing it to the other staff and being like, I got one. And they know they're about to get tipped really well. That's cool. I like that a lot. That's very good. All right. So Fair Wins Credit Union Studios.

That's us now. That's what we're broadcasting from. We got it up in here. It's on the wall, isn't it? Somewhere. Is it on the wall? It's right there on the wall. There it is.

Right there. Okay. And so that reminds you guys right there that we're here. And we're going to be saying this over and over and over and over. I hope forever. And I hope you guys start getting that Ramsey debit card at Fair Winds. And you get those high yield savings accounts for your emergency fund at Fair Winds. And you get the bundle and the free checking and all this stuff at Fair Winds. Because you're going to have a great response from them.

They love Ramsey people. They have been taking care of our folks really well for the last year. That's why we did this much increased footprint with them. And it includes the high-tipping Ramsey. debit card, according to Dr. John Deloney. I like it. Hey, this is how you change culture. It's a good adjustment. It's a good adjustment. I like right there, right there, live, call an

audible. Fairwinds Credit Union.org slash Ramsey. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly, everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential, because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage, no gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection.

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Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Maria is in St. Louis. Hi, Maria. How are you? Hi, Dave. Good afternoon. I'm great. Thank you.

How are you guys? Better than I deserve. What's up? That is a great response. I just wanted to say thank you so much for everything that you do. I'm a huge fan of your podcast. YouTube channel, show, everything. I'm very honored to be on today.

Thank you. My question is, I have about $100,000 in my 401k. I'm 30 years old, and I've been wanting to open up a wedding venue out here in Defiance, Missouri, which is beautiful kind of wine country. I'm wondering if I should take for my 401k and put some type of equity. into this wedding venue dream that I have. But, of course, I do have some lingering debts and just wanted to get your opinion on do I take for my 401K

or kind of where do I even begin with this? So what do you do for living now? I am in supply chain for a defense contractor. So you're making $100K? I have a second job. I work at a bar on the weekend, so I do serve. So I'm probably about $1.15. Okay.

All right. but your supply chain's 100K 105 105 yeah okay all right and um good for you thank you

and the how much debt did you say you have so we just bought a house me and my boyfriend bought a house last November um for 450 we have the mortgage

we both have car payments what do you owe on your car I owe 24,000 and I pay 31 to the bank. So I'm a little upset about the car. You owe 24,000. What other debt do you have? I owe student loans 15,000. Okay. All right. And, well, a couple things come to mind immediately. One is, if you're going to run a wedding chapel, you should act like you believe in your product and you should be married.

Correct. We, hey, we looked at rings. We have a ring picked out. Yeah. Okay, just before we get going. Just kind of basic stuff. I've never heard of a, I've never heard the phrase, that's a great Missouri wine. What kind of wine do they have in Missouri?

In defiance, yeah. You're not wrong. It's just, they have a bunch of wineries. It's the big, like everyone's right out. They're just kind of a little resort area there. Maybe it's up and coming. It's beautiful. Okay.

It's a pretty area and an excuse to drink some wine, yeah, okay. Or have a wedding, or have a wedding, or both, yeah, okay. But there's no existing venue that you're trying to purchase. You would build this? I would build this, so I would have to buy the land. I would, of course, have, you know, everything. It would be starting from scratch. Yeah, okay.

All right. Well, number one, I would tell you, regardless of what business idea you propose, I would have you get out of debt before you try it. Okay. And number two, we coach about 10,000 small businesses through our entree leadership brand. I do an entree leadership podcast. It's one of the top podcasts in the small business space. And we teach them to not grow their business with that.

Okay. To grow it slowly. So I'm not going to have you borrow on your 401K. And of course, you know, we're not going to tell you to cash out a 401k and take a 10% penalty plus your tax rate of 30% or, Dave, I'm going to borrow money at 40% interest to open a wedding. venue. No, you're not. And so we're not doing that either. So that kind of takes up. Those things I start to be a dream killer, but I'm not a dream killer. What I am is a nightmare killer. I want to set you up to win at your dream, not to get to the end of your dream and be one of the 80% of

small businesses that fail. And that number is actually true. And what causes the 80%? The number one cause of small business failure is called cash flow problems. Now, cash flow problems mean I'm short on money, hello, and that usually means I'm in debt, and I didn't pay my taxes properly, and the IRS is chasing me down. So the taxes thing you can work on with quarterly estimates and do your accounting properly, it's not the end of the world, and just not, just being sophisticated enough to run your business properly. The debt thing is you've got to, if nobody wants to get married, the banker doesn't care. Right.

If 73 people get married that day, the banker doesn't care. The banker just doesn't care. It's a freaking banker. And they will foreclose on your little wedding chapel and turn it into a dog park. I mean, in a heartbeat, they'll do that. You know that's true. That's why you're laughing. Oh, yes, yes, exactly.

And so what I want to do is if I'm going to run a business, and I do run one, and we have 14 profit centers, meaning 14 mini businesses, inside of the Ramsey Solutions Total P&L. So I run 14 businesses of sorts. They're all interconnected, but I run all of those as the CEO of this place and I've grown it from a card table in my

living room. So what we want to do anytime we're trying something new, which is what you're doing, in an area where it's never yet been done, ooh, risk, which is what we're doing. Well, the wineries do offer weddings, but there is no wedding

true wedding venue. They're more just wineries. What's the biggest nicest winery? Put that name in your head. Don't say it out loud. Okay. Okay. After John's comment, for sure. Okay. Yeah, not a Missouri fan. Okay, go on. I love Missouri. We like Missouri. We just never associated it with Napa. No, I'm just saying. So go over and talk

to them about a joint venture and let them build it. Wow. Okay. I didn't even think about that. They'll put up the money. They suck at wedding. They're good at wine. I'm excellent at weddings and wedding venues. You can increase your visits to the winery. We'll put it right here on property. And we'll JV it.

And you guys own the building. You own the property. And I run it for a percentage of profits for you. And let's lay out a model. And let's start that puppy where you do it at nights and weekends and maybe some days off from your logistics. Don't quit yet. And let's get 50, $60,000. of income, $80,000 of income coming into your pocket before you quit your job.

Okay. We always say pull the boat up close to the dock before you so you can step in rather than make the leap. People that make leaps get wet. So get your income from the wedding venue up. And let's figure out a way to do this where you don't have to carry the burden of all the downside. And for that matter, these people could start the thing in a really nice high-end tent.

Yeah, you're not wrong. You could. And then let's concept prove, right? Let's get social proof for the concept. And they got $25,000 or $50,000 in the tent before we go build a $100,000 building or $200,000 building. And we prove out that we're both going to make bank on this. You're going to get a lot more customers for the winery. You're also going to make money on the weddings because,

I'm not taking 100% of the profits. You got invested in this, too, so we're doing this together, and do a JV on it, and let's prove it out. And go ahead and put in the agreement that someday you can buy them out, and you can move it off-site. Okay, so almost like a – not a franchise, but basically just taking – No, more like an option to purchase. Okay. That's a good idea, too. Because if it goes gangbusters later, or if they ever went broke, you could own it.

You went on the real estate, but you'd own the idea. Right. And so, let's just kind of eat. I'm trying to ease into this and limit my risk rather than just take this leap off a cliff and go, I sure, God, hope that water's deep. I know. The upfront cost of the wedding venue is what is the lingering question. And you can't start. So, yeah, let's start it with a camping trip and go from there.

I mean, I think it, I got to tell you, I think the. Tying it to the winery could really help the wedding chapel, and it for sure will help the winery. Oh, yeah. I mean, you could start at the winery and then, you know, move on over to the venue. Go ahead and option the piece of ground next door and buy it out. Buy the ground first for some of your profits. Later, build the chapel. When you get it built, I exercise your option on the business.

Move it next door. Okay, so what if worst case scenario, what if these guys are like, no, we do perfectly fine, we're not. Go to the other one. Go to the next one. You just missed out. Your competition is now going to have a wedding venue, and you should have tonne it. You screwed up. And then get on Amazon and order an Elvis costume and pay some high school kid to stand there next to you.

I'll go renew my vows and defiance wine country. A spinner sign. That's right. A spinner sign. That's right. What are you? Vegas. I'm just trying to think of this up-and-coming wine country, Dave. Yeah, Elvis is known for that.

I'm just saying. I don't, people get. Elvis Weddings? In Vegas. I'm just telling you. You're just started another trend, did you? I'm starting another trend. If your phone bill is more than $25 a month, either you're okay setting money on fire or you're just not paying attention.

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Restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com slash Ramsey for details. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feel like you can't get ahead, we'll join one of our free every dollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month, and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. That would be George or Rachel or Jade. And they're going to show you how to stick to a budget, and typically people find thousands of dollars of margin using every dollar.

I feel like you've got to raise when you do a budget. You really do, because you go, what? Yeah. So, and you can ask any question during the live Q&A. Sign up for free at ramsysolutions.com slash webinar. It's a free every dollar training. Ramsey Solutions.com slash webinar. Dan's in Seattle. Hi, Dan. How are you? I'm doing good, Dave. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up? So my question for you today is, I'm on baby step two, and I have about $80,000 in debt. Now, most of my debt is through one bank, and they're offering me settlements at about 35 cents on a dollar. But I also owe $32,000 to the Department of Treasury, and they just sent me an intent to initiate wage garnishment. The IRS? No, it's through the Department of Treasury.

For what? So I was in the military. I was in the Navy for about five years, and I got discharged early for failing a drug test. And so because of that, they're asking for my re-enlistment bonus that I had signed a contract for back. Okay, so you got a re-enlistment bonus, and how many months later did you fail the drug test? It was two years later. Two years later. Okay, and the re-enlistment was for how long?

that was the six-year contract okay so you were one-third of the way through so what was your bonus when you were enlisted uh it was the money they're asking for back it was around 32,000 so they don't pro-rate it at all they want the whole thing huh they want the amount that they had already paid out to me that wasn't the full amount but that was what I had received up until the point that I got oh they were paying it out to you over the six-year period correct so it is the pro rata amount okay so overall had you been there you would have got 90 something thousand dollars had you been there the whole time uh roughly yeah a little left than that i think yeah okay all right hmm all right have you tried to negotiate a payment

plan with them because i'm sure they expect someone that failed a drug test to have 32,000 I was laying around. I have not. So my plan was, because I know you normally say, works smallest to large. Yeah, but not when you're dealing with the U.S. freaking government, with the IRS or the U.S. Department of Treasury. They have the ability to come take stuff from you that other people don't.

So, yeah, what I would do is get on the phone with them and figure out if you can work a payment plan with them. and that will use up some of the money you're using to get out of debt on the other side, but it also keeps them from coming and taking your wages, which they can do in a heartbeat. They don't even have to go to court. They just got to send a notice. It's like the IRS. They're unbelievably powerful. Right.

So, yeah, you need to get that thing settled to create a sustainable situation so you can work your way through the rest of it. Okay. So we need to get a payment plan with them. They'll work a payment plan with you because I don't think they think they're going to get money. Right. I mean, if they let a hundred people go in this exact same situation due to failing a drug test, a hundred of them don't have the money.

Okay? None of you guys are sitting around on $32,000 when this happens to you, right? I mean, your other friends in the military that that happened to, right? Yes, sir. Not like you're sitting around, you know, on piles of money. You know, it just doesn't work that way. so yeah i um yeah i'd work a payment plan with them and then with what i've got left so i would imagine they'll settle what are you making now what do you make uh 85 000 a year before tax

good what do you do what do you do now i am a data center engineer great excellent and so keep learning and keep growing and keep that income increasing and let's get it all cleared off as fast as possible what i would do is call them and say this hey I got let go from the military for a drug test. I have no money. You really can't get anything, but I would love to start a payment plan to get this paid back. What's the least you would put me on? And put it on the smallest payment possible for now.

That gives you more room to work on the other stuff. And when the other stuff's gone, then go back and pay them off completely early. So, you know, I don't want you to offer them $1,000, and they would have taken $500 a month for right now right i want them to give you a number and no matter what they say practice this with me dan go i want you to gasp no matter what they say act like you about passed out and go you're kidding oh my oh no oh my gosh oh can you do any better and let them negotiate with themselves for a minute okay you understand the technique i do

it works especially when you're dealing with a government employee on the other end and day hey dan dan you're still there man listen to me this will not go away right

all right and i know the temptation will be like somebody of yours is going to have a cool jeep that he's jacked up he's going to give it to you to quote unquote great deal and someone's going to ask you to get in on Bitcoin or whatever the thing's coming. None of this is going to go away. So the faster you figure out how to get this cleared up, I would go scorchurched on my living arrangements until I got the government out of my life.

Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Okay. They are unwavering. It's not going to go away. Yeah, they're the hardest of all creditors to deal with. Right. Because they're their own boss.

They answer to nobody. Yeah, they don't have to check with a judge. It's crazy. it's like student loans they just issue the garnishment it's like the IRS they just issue the garnishment they don't have to go through due process it's completely unconstitutional but it doesn't matter they do it anyway so you know due process is in the constitution not when it comes to government debt nope they just come take it and then you they then they go oh you mean we weren't supposed to do that we'll get it back then doesn't work no it's a pain in the butt I want to

scare you because I want to scare you in knocking this out as fast as you possibly can but in the meantime put it on the smallest possible payment so you've got a sustainable situation and then work like a crazy man live scorched earth stay off the dead gum drugs and attack this stuff man and get it out of your life get rid of it so it doesn't come back and yeah for sure you've got a great career in front of you don't screw it up bust bust bust bust bust get those certifications data analysts man in an ai world you are king you're going to be king of the heap because you're going to be the one telling a i what to do if you learn how to do your craft believe me i got them in this building and i pay them well so you and they're they're the future so they are the future the children are our future yeah the

yeah yeah that's it but that's you know said ai but yeah they do it man you can do don't john's right though don't let don't let up until they're out of your life because this is not going away and if you look up five years from now and you've still got this hanging around because you haven't dealt with it you hope john's voice is ringing in your ear it's not going away. People keep, and this is a little bit different situation, but man,

I don't know what it's going to take for folks to stop getting into business arrangements with the government. It just doesn't end, I mean, it doesn't end well because they answer to nobody. They're just, they're just going to come take your check.

They're, if you're going to, if you get into the student loan world, you are making a deal with the government. Yeah. If you don't pay your taxes. You don't pay your taxes. You're making a deal with the government.

And it's just, it's frustrating. It is what it is. but, man, they win 100% of the time. And the number of... They got Vegas beat on that. Oh, and the number of, well, at least Vegas... Vegas just wins most of the time.

Most of the time, that's right. And the number of folks, the students I worked with over the years that just think it's going to go away. It's not going to go away. It just doesn't. It just gets bigger. It's a high rate of resurrection. That's right, man. It will come back.

It comes back to life. Zombie debt. Just keeps coming back to life. Hey, you guys, back to school Hey, you guys, back to school season is here. And if you have kids, you know what that. means. Your grocery list just got tougher. So here is a fantastic tip to save money. Start your grocery shopping at Aldi. When you make Aldi your first stop, you can stock up on breakfast

favorites, school lunch essentials, snacks for after practice, all the things without blowing your budget. A family of four can save up to $4,000 a year by making Aldi their go-to for groceries. Find a store near you at aldi.us. That's a L-D-I-U-S. Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market. Thanks for being with us. Ryan is in Detroit, Michigan. Hi, Ryan.

How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up? Okay, so I've been following your baby steps, and they've been working out very well for me. I'm active duty military, and I'm on baby step six. on my wife and I are on baby step six. And we're just wondering, with us moving every four to five years, would it be wise to put money into the house to pay down the mortgage or to put the money aside in a savings or investment account?

Well, when you move, you're going to sell the house and they're going to give you a check. Yes. So put it into the mortgage. And then someday there won't be a mortgage. And when you sell the house, they're going to give you a check. and when you buy the house, you're going to give them a check. Someday there'll be no mortgage and you move from no mortgage to no mortgage. All right. Cool deal.

Yeah, force savings plan. Now, a couple of guidelines. Which branch are you in? Coast Greg. Okay. Thank you for your service, by the way. Yeah, so you're not moving but every five years or so, right? Yeah, we move every four.

We can possibly extend to five. Yeah, yeah, because a lot of the Army guys are every two. Navy as well. So, especially earlier in their career. We work with the military a lot. Thank you again. But anyway, the thing to be sure of is it's not always, in your case it's more likely, but it's not always a good idea to buy. Yeah. So what you want to be sure of is during your time in the market, is the property going to increase enough in value to bother to own it? so if you're only there two years and you're in a flat real estate market you would not buy you would rent yeah okay you're better off you're going to lose money and if you're in a

flat real estate market you can't sell it when you get ready to leave now your postings are largely around non military base situations you're in more of a civilian setting right yeah yeah like you're not going into one of these huge uh forts or, you know, whatever, these huge military communities where lots of people have bought a house and now they got them on the market because they move every two years. You don't have that issue. You're dealing with more direct consumers that are non-military. So that's going to help you make money on the resale because the market doesn't get glutted.

It doesn't get full. And so, you know, so for instance, my buddies in the Navy that are in San Diego, they do real well on a house, right? but if you move out in the middle of a cornfield in Kansas and there's nobody there but other military people, you're going to lose your butt on the house. Yeah. So just be careful with that kind of stuff. Now, again, your situation, because unique to the Coast Guard, it's going to be very different because obviously it's residing mainly around the coast.

And so, duh. And so, yeah, that puts you in a different thing. And so I think in most cases it's not going to apply to you. you're going to make money so buying is going to be a good idea so the answer your question just stands getting paid off as fast as possible be sure when you buy next time you pay cash and pay it office if you don't pay it off as soon as possible and every time just move your equity from place to place to place and then when you someday land and retire and you land in the place you're going to stay in you've got i paid for house yeah part of me dave would be so tempted to rent in the

least in the place where like had the bare minimum where we could live. Like this is good for us for right now. Um, my friends in the military always say, yeah, but there's a psychological component. You get moved every few years. It's important to have tent stakes. And I get that, but there's a balance, right? You don't need the Taj Mahal, but you really don't want to be camping either. Yeah. Yeah, there's a balance there. It's hard. It's hard on mama. Yeah. Hard on the spouses of kids. They need to have a home. Yeah. And you're doing this for 20 years. So you're not better ones. Yeah. You're just in the military. So, uh, they do live in tents. But yeah, but the, uh, the thought of putting five.

different houses on the market over the course of 20 years, it's driving me crazy. If you're in, if you're a corporate gypsy, you've got the same thing, though. Yeah, that's true. If you're in a corporate setting and they move you ever so often, and you're bouncing city to city going up the ladder in corporate America. Yeah. You've got to be able to sell the house because the market you're in, you can't be buying in a dead butt market, some kind of market where there's not any activity because it's

not going to increase in value, and then you've got 273 days on the market. Right. Nine months you're looking at this stupid thing. And y'all are going to end up renting somewhere else. Yeah, yep, because you can't get your house. Because you can't get in. You're going to move twice in those foot. So it just becomes messy.

And I get the psychological, like, if somebody's telling you when to be where, where you're going to live, what you're going to do, when you get what you got to wear, I get the idea of I have to have one thing that's my own. It's just being careful about that thing, not completely owning you again, right? Exactly. I get it. But, man, that's tough. But it also, you know, you can't apply the TikTok version of culture. everybody ought to buy real estate. No? Not really. Yeah. Not really. There's certain times you don't. It's not a good idea. Real estate's not good when you're playing a short game. Short game real estate's stupid. Yeah. So it gets you caught. It's a problem. Devon is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Devin. How are you? Hey, Dave. How are you today? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Well, I am a pastor, and I wanted to pick your brain on a possible career move. I make $40,000 a year. And I was thinking about moving into a

different career, either in plumbing or home remodel, and I just had some concerns about where we're at financially and wanted to see how you would go about doing that. I mean, plumbing's basically the same job as a pastor, isn't it? Yeah. I guess in one area of thinking. Oh, my gosh. Wow, that's an interesting move. So you just burn out on pastoring or what?

Yeah, my wife and I, we, uh, coming out of college, we're both 28 years old, and we had several jobs right after the other that were all just really hard. And, you know, the old expression, sheep, bite. So that's just, we had some hard times. It's so spiritually we're needing to take a step back. And I like working with my hands, and one day I want to own my own business. And so those were the areas I was thinking of. Yeah. Well, they do, and that's a shame, but they do. You're right. Um, okay. Well, the, the question is, how can you make the conversion without it being some kind of a leap? Conversion is not the right word. How can you make the transition without it being some kind of a leap?

Yeah. Poor choice. Yeah. But the, uh, uh, so, I mean, like, I don't want you to go make nothing to get to be a plumber. Let's start as an intern or doing stuff on the weekends or whatever to learn to do that. I don't want you to start from ground zero with no jobs. as home remodeled. Have you done home remodeling? No, sir. I would be starting from nothing. Okay. All right. Do you know someone in the business? I have some ideas of where I could find some people. I want you to edge in and go learn the business somewhere before you just open a business. Yes, sir. I was thinking of specifically with plumbing or remodeling starting as just working

with someone else first, and then moving that direction. So if you had someone that hired you to, that you don't know anything about remodeling and you're going to go to work from, do you have any idea what they would pay you? No, sir, in our area in Oklahoma City, I mean, I'm assuming it, you know, making $40,000 a year. You can probably make that, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I make that shoveling drywall, yeah. Exactly.

So I wasn't as concerned about that. My wife and I are, we just finished Baby Step 2. So as long as you're making the same money as you're making now and you're making it instantaneously, there's no change to your family other than you shifted what you do every day? Yes, I think so. Mathematically, if you make $40,000 as a plumber working for a plumber or you make $40,000 working for a home remodel person and you make $40,000 now, you just changed jobs mathematically. Okay. Doesn't affect it at all, agreed? I agree. I just wanted to make sure that that was actually, I wasn't just fooling myself and, you know, having rose-colored glasses about this way.

Oh, rose-colored glasses would be, I don't know anything about remodeling, and I just bought a hammer and I opened a remodeling company. That's fair. That would be rose-colored glasses. That would be a fool. But I talk to those sometimes, but you're not it. And so, no, you know, so I want you to, if you can make the same money and make your change, and then begin to learn a craft in an effort to say five years from now, I'm going to make the move into my own space, then I'm fine with that. And there's nothing to say you can't serve in the church for the rest of your life.

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Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Sarah is in Baton Rouge. Hi, Sarah. How are you? Hi, I'm good. Thank you. Better than I deserve, right? Yeah.

Amen. How can we help? So I am a divorced, single mom of two boys. I am their primary caregiver. And one day I would like to remarry, but. I am slated to inherit at least like $5 million of today's value. Hopefully, I won't inherit it for another 20 years. But I just wanted to know y'all's thoughts on a pre-nup,

if that was something that would be good for my situation, or I wanted to know what y'all thought about that. In your situation, I do recommend it. Full disclosure, when I first started the show, I said, never get a pre-nup. If you like stuff more than the person, don't get married. Marriage is hard enough, right? That was kind of my stance.

But then after doing about, I don't know, two decades of financial coaching and crisis counseling where I found a bunch of weirdos involved, I changed my stance on pre-nups. And the reason I changed it was what I discovered in actual reality out here walking around in the wild is that where there is a dramatic amount of money difference or just a dramatic amount of money. Right. The pre-nup not only helps the actual married couple, but more importantly, it helps the weirdos in their family. I didn't think about that. And so, like, you marry a beautiful, wonderful man, and Cousin Eddie shows up and wants to open a pizza parlor with your money. Like a day after the honeymoon. Right.

That's the crap that happens. And then your beautiful, wonderful man just goes, Cousin Eddie, I got a pre-nub. I can't say nothing. And you just look at Cousin Eddie and go, you can have a biscuit. And then we're going to send you on your way. And, you know, that you can just, you can do it because the weirdos in that one ring or two rings or three rings out, sometimes it's the parents, sometimes it's the kids, sometimes it's Cousin Eddie. I don't know who it is, but the weirdos were the one.

And then what happens is they drive a wedge between you and your spouse. Right. Relational. That's what I didn't want to happen. And the pre-nup is not to protect you. from this wonderful man you meet, he's probably okay. That's the goal. Yeah.

But, I mean, that really, you probably got pretty good taste, right? And so he's probably not the problem. It might be, but, you know, but the $5 million versus he's got a normal net worth of, you know, four, five hundred thousand or nothing or whatever. And he's just a good dude that works hard and saves his money and pays his bills and whatever. And, you know, and you guys love Jesus and you're going to church and life is good, right? everything's good so y'all'll be y'all'll be fine but this just keeps everybody clear but it you shouldn't do that on small amounts of money like i had one lady call up and say her boyfriend wanted a pre-nup for his

uh 1967 mustang and i'm like hey don't marry this guy he likes cars more than he likes you right stupid car really no that's that's that that is that's planning your divorce right there that's different all right sarah i want to ask dave a question on your behalf okay great dave if you're sarah and you somebody sets you up and you roll your eyes and like who the hell go and you have a great time you go out again and you go out again when would you sit down and say hey i got five million dollars in an account would that be something you wait till you're engaged to talk about would that be something because my would not get engaged before they No, no, it has to be way before that.

But I mean, at the same time you would talk about anything in your account. Like, you know, let's start talking about money. Well, you don't do that on the first date. That'd be weird, you know. But, I mean, once you start talking about using language in your sentences about spending a Building a future together. Building a future together. Then you start going, well, that includes, let's talk about your crazy mother.

Yeah. Let's talk about your, let's talk about, you know, what do you feel about debt? I can't stand dead. I did that Dave Ramsey thing. You know, some people do that on the first date. That's strange. But the, yeah, that I think it's strange. But, yeah, I think as you're getting serious in the relationship, you start talking about the important things.

I want to know exactly where you stand on religion, on money, on in-laws, on kids. They're going to know about your kids immediately. And you don't have the $5 million right now anyway. It's off in the future somewhere. Yes, sir. and hypothetically something could go sideways and you didn't even get it absolutely yeah it's you know I definitely try to be a good steward of the money that I'm blessed with and I know that this is not money that I've earned so I don't expect it

you know and I would just say it has nothing to do with you I've just gotten good counsel that says all the people in our lives are it gives us a boundary with them if we have this done yeah I think when you start talking about the important things in life, the money would be on the list, not because money's important, but because what it represents? And I don't know. What do you think? You're the PhD in counseling. When should you bring it up? I think you're right. I think I would, this is me personally, I think I would always be haunted by, did that accelerate our relationship? Did that get you more excited to marry me? Which for myself is my own red flag.

it would be a me red flag not a them red flag but um yeah i don't know there's something like i'm a romantic at heart and there's something cool about my wife getting married and her being like oh by the way when i told you we were well off like we're here's here's the number that sounds awesome that's not reality right that's some kind of book you read fiction book yeah exactly so um yeah i think you have to put on the table and i think you have to get through the initial discomfort of maybe him thinking, oh, I wanted to be the macho breadwinner and suddenly I'm marrying somebody who's a multimillionaire or vice versa, you putting the discomfort on the table. I'm nervous to say this out loud because I'm afraid you're going to like me more just because I've got

this inherited wealth. Or it's just going to cause weirdness. Yeah, it's just going to cause weirdness, yeah. But I think, all relationships have to get through weirdness and awkwardness and just an uncomfortable conversation. So it's just another one in a long list of uncomfortable conversations. Anybody getting together is going to have to have. Yeah. And constant. Yeah, it's always going on. That's right.

Yeah. So, Sarah, you know, it's interesting. I tell people when we're just talking about money in general that wealth magnifies everything, the good and the bad. So, like, if someone has a temper and they become wealthy, they become a bully. Crazy. If someone is compassionate and generous and they become wealthy, they become what we call a philanthropist.

And they're constantly known for their generosity. That becomes their personal brand. And so if crazy is in your family, and all of us have crazy in our family, if you don't think you have crazy in your family, it's you. Yeah, so, I mean, everybody's got crazy. So crazy in your family is magnified. And so that's what I'm looking at with this $5 million. It's going to magnify everything.

It's going to magnify the awkwardness that John is talking about in the dating relationship. You will. And you know what? You just said something important. I would actually relationally lead with here's who I am. I'm a person who tips like crazy. I'm a person who gives to my church or to

charitable organizations. That's who I am. I would lead with the identity part early on in a relationship. Yeah. As we get to know each other. I'm a person that's right. I'm a person that doesn't borrow money. I believe in saving money. I believe in living on a plan. That's right. And then my budget, I plan my time. Here's how much money I got. Yeah. I like that. And then later on

and oh, by the way, my mom and dad are rich. Yeah. And they left me a bunch of money when they die. there you go. That's way down the list, though. Yeah, yeah. That's a good point. Hey, you guys, more than a hundred million Americans carry medical debts, and that is so scary. And it shows that traditional coverage often leaves people to face

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Today's question comes from Abigail in Indiana. Abigail writes, my husband passed away very recently. I'm sorry. I have a problem with family and friends who have started asking for personal items that belong to him. Some of the requests are for sentimental reasons, but there are also requests for things that are of monetary value. I'm still grieving and not ready to make these decisions right now. What is the morally right thing to do? I'm still grieving and I'm not ready to make these decisions right now. That's right. No. Or I'm not doing anything. Am I giving away anything for nine months? And I'll get back to you. Yeah, I'll tell you what, I'm keeping a little list and I'll put you down the list. But right now, I'm just crying.

you have no moral obligation none whatsoever zero to start handing out stuff um especially um it just feels like vulture's circling does feel gross like yeah and i want grandma's china yeah oh brother it's like a bad hallmark movie um and by the way if if if somebody says oh i was really hoping to get that, then they've crossed their name off the list. The friend that says, hey, we used to go hunting together, and he had this awesome rifle. Can I buy it? I would love to buy it from you. When you're ready.

Yeah, yeah. And you say, hey, in nine months, I'm not ready. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm going to make sure all of his other friends know. That's somebody put a star by on their name. But if someone's like, oh, really? I deserve this. Yeah.

He promised me I could. And we're out. Yeah. Man, gross, gross. That's hard. People, this is gross. And she says, passed away very recently. Yeah, this isn't like a year.

It sounds like a month ago or a couple weeks ago. It's like three days later, here they come. I want a casserole dish back and I want Grandma's Bible. I mean, come on. Wow. Hmm. Yeah, that's, so the other side of this is funny. Sharon's dad is 96, getting ready to be 97, in perfect health and perfect mind.

He's a wonderful man. and he is so funny he's like everybody gets you a sticky note and put something on that's how my grandparents were and so you go through the whole house there's freaking sticky notes on everything that's how my grandparents were it's like up somebody got to that one before us is like underneath it you had to do underneath it oh it's on the back of the picture so you had to look on the back of the it's so funny it's like yeah uh but hey i actually like that it's first come first serve you want to come visit me well and he's doing it he's initiating it while he's a lot That's right.

That's like his will. That's what my grandmother did. That's right. Yeah. It's just, it's funny. Yeah. Like, y'all want something. Here's some sticky notes.

You know, it keeps the fighting down later. I'm trying to just imagine the conversation. Imagine the conversation of me calling even one of my closest friends, spout, wife. The chances of me asking for something is zero. I just can't imagine. I'm trying to figure out how I would have that call. How would you, how would you, the only conversation is what I can give. How can help?

can I do? How can I help? Okay, by the way, he had that shirt I really wanted. Like, can I have the, can I have a sofa? That fishing tackle, yeah. Jeez, Lee. Oh, Lee. What are you people? It's unbelievable. Tiffany is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Tiffany, what's up? Hi, Dave. Hi, Dr. John. Thank you so much for taking my call. This is exciting. Exciting to have you. How can we help? Great. Yeah, so my husband and I, along with my mom, we are planning to move to Florida to be closer to both of our families. We unfortunately lost my dad. back in December, and so this move was put us close to my brother and his family,

and then my husband's family just moved down to the same area back last fall. Wow. My question is, yeah, my husband and I, we are both 43. We are in baby step two. We've been tackling our debt very hard this year. We've already paid off about $25,000. We have $65,000 consumer debt left. So my question is, when we get ready to make this move,

because we do have two houses that we have to get cleaned out and sold, When we are ready to start. Stop, stop, stop, stop. We don't have anything. Do you own a house? No, we have a mortgage on our home. I mean, you have a house, you and your husband have a house, and then your mother-in-law has a house. My mom has a house.

Okay. So there's not, we don't have two houses. She has a house and you have a house. Yes, correct. Okay, all right. But you're going to help her with the clean out and all that kind of. But this is not, we're not turning this into a commune. Okay.

Okay. No, no, no, no. They were married for 55 years. They have 55 years worth of stuff. Oh, God, and hoarders. Yes, I got you. Okay. On an acre of property and four buildings. So we have some work to do there. Okay, but that's just helping her move. Okay. And then you've got to sell your house. So what is your house worth? So our house, we, right now, we're anywhere between 100 to 120. We're expecting to make us a profit on the sale of our home. Oh, so it pays off the 65 and you got some money to move with? Correct, which was my question is, do you suggest that when we are ready to, you know, get a little closer to this, which the goal is to start working on this in January, that we pause our baby steps and stack up cash, knowing that there is going to be expenses to move from Ohio. They're going to give you a check when you sell your house. Right.

You don't need a stack up cash. You're getting $100,000. Okay. Right? I wasn't sure. Aren't you? Yes, we're going to get the money. I just didn't know if to be proactive to have a little bit of saved up, you know, before we do that.

So I wasn't sure. Well, here's the issue. Okay. Let's pretend that you pay, that you save up $10,000, okay? Yes. And so you don't pay $10,000 worth of debt. When you sell your house, that's $10,000 more of debt you have to pay. Correct.

She didn't really gain anything. No, so it's like six and one half of the other. And that's what I wasn't sure on. Like, I was, I think. just looking, crunching the numbers too much and just driving myself nuts. So what I would do is just make the move 100% debt-free and have an emergency fund. If you have enough left after that to put a down payment on a house in Florida, buy, if not, you may have to rent for a couple years and save up your down payment in Florida,

but you're debt-free with an emergency fund. Well, here's the other part of the question. With the sale of my mom's home, her and my dad did everything correctly, she's debt-free, she has already discussed in gifting us on the sale of her home, gifting us money for the down payment for the house in Florida. Is she going to be living with you? Yes. Oh, complicated.

Oh, yeah, a little complicated. Yeah, no, a lot. Do you have siblings? Yeah, that's why they're moving. We do. Yes, and I have an older brother. This is something we have discussed. This was this process of moving was something that,

My dad had very much wanted to do. That was the goal. Unfortunately, his health just didn't hold out for them to realize it. I would get it all in writing just to make sure everybody's clear. Yes. Yes, we're getting at that as part of the process. If you take a portion of, is it just you and your brother? Yes, it's just my brother and I.

Okay, so if you take a, let's pretend that there's a half million dollars of inheritance when your mom passes away. Okay. Your brother's going to get $250, you're going to get $250, but she's going to give you of that $250, 150 up front before she dies. Correct. Then that uncomplicated it greatly. If she only has 150 and it all goes in your house and your brother gets screwed unless you resell your house when she dies, this is not a good plan. No, and we've looked at it with the financial advisor she has. There is enough right now without factoring in any interest that grows on any of her IRAs and all

that your brother would be easily getting half without touching your house or you live in. Okay. Correct. That makes it a lot cleaner. Then all she's doing is advancing you part of your inheritance, and she's going to live with you in return for the advance. Yeah. Okay. That's cool.

That's cool. Yeah. But that gives you a real incentive to get everything cleaned up and shiny, and let's get it all sold off. Yeah. Let's load up the truck and head to Beverly. Hills, that is. Swimming pools, movie stars. Black Gold.

Got his tea. Gotta be old to know what that is. You've got to be really old right there. Thank you. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Eladio and Carla are with us. Hey, guys. How are you? Hi, Dave. Hi, John. Welcome. Good to have you guys. Where do you live?

We're in Los Angeles, California. Ah, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. Thank you. And here to do a debt-free scream all the way across the nation. So how much debt did you two pay off? With your advice and with God's grace, we paid off $300. $12,000. Wow! How long did this take? Five years. Five years? Very cool. Wow, it's amazing, guys. And your way to y'all are impressive. Your range of income during that five years? It was 100 to 130,000.

Cool. And what do you guys do for a living? I work for UPS and also in a restaurant. And I'm a physical therapist assistant. Very cool. What kind of debt was this three $112,000. It's a mortgage? The mortgage. You have a house in Los Angeles that's paid for. Yes. Y'all really are weirdos.

I love it. Amazing, guys. Great weirdos. Awesome. What's the house worth? About 600,000. Yeah. Amazing.

Congratulations. Thank you. You guys, you know that in California it's illegal to own your house. Yes, we've heard. Oh, my gosh. This is great, y'all. proud of you. What in the world. This is so cool. And how old are you two? We're 39. 39 years old. We have a paid for $600,000 house in Los Angeles, California. How much in your

nest egg and your savings, your retirement savings? We haven't checked. We had to check. About. We have to check. About? We're not millionaires yet. Not 400K then. No. Okay, because there's 400k with a 600k house to be baby steps millionaire all right but you're on your way at 40 years old you're almost there and you're saving like crazy he's working two jobs you're doing everything very neat and you paid off your home in five years that's worth 600k what in the way tell me how you all got started on all this ramsie stuff so how we got started seven years ago um it was you know a co-worker that introduced us to the baby steps his name's david and he got me started on the on the financial piece online, the self-study, and so I try to get my husband on board. He resisted,

you know, he wanted to do his own thing. But what finally did it was the biblical principles that you teach. So, yeah, you know, his word, God's word never returned empty. And the word just started to transform and edify our lives. And I was just starting my Christian walk at that time. So, yeah, it was really the word. What church do you all attend in Los Angeles? Yeah, it's in Pomona. And It's called Rios de Agua Viva. Spanish service service. Okay, all right. And so obviously you're a Hispanic community.

What country were you from? From Mexico. Mexico. Awesome. Very cool. What part? Guerrero. Oh, yeah.

Fun. Okay, cool. Cool. Good deal. So what was it like your wife comes in and says, hey, I went to church. You can't buy anything. No clothes, cars. We're getting out of debt.

It's kind of hard to do that. but she made it. Yeah. What do you do for UPS? Oh, I work on the airport. Okay. So just moving the cans to the airplane. And then what do you do in the restaurant?

Like help to the servers. Okay, all right. Okay, so here's what's important. And you're a physician, you're a physician. Physical therapist assistant. Yeah, a PT. A PT. PT.

Y'all, neither of y'all are working executive jobs. No. You're not working upper management jobs. Y'all are out there grinding it out. Yeah. And we started from nothing, like poverty. Like we were living off of his income as a cook before, before he, like, moved up. And, yeah.

So you're throwing boxes and helping servers. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you're... I was in school. Dealing with egos, right? No, yeah. I mean, you're helping clients.

No. y'all are grinding it out yeah he's had two jobs forever but this but you know as well as anybody the story is you cannot get ahead you can't do it yes yes it's impossible you can't do it nobody can do it unless you are one of these these special unicorn jobs and you guys you guys just did it anyway hold my hold my beer here we go I mean this is incredible glory to God amen way to go God yeah God I'm speechless right now. It's so cool.

What you all have accomplished is so amazing. Yeah, you're heroes. Thank you. You have. You've changed your whole family tree. And your proof that the great American dream is alive and well. Yes, it is. Very proud of y'all.

Anything is possible with Christ. Amen. Well, and two jobs for five years also. Griding and grinding and grinding. The diligent prosper, proverbs says. So there we go. Excellence in the ordinary overtime. That's diligence.

Yeah. Way to go, y'all. Way to go. Impressive. All right. So when one of your friends comes up and he's making fun of you when you're moving some boxes around at the airport about you bringing your sandwich so you can get out of debt, right? And he goes, oh, you can't do that. You say, yeah, you can. All you got to do is, what do you tell them? The main thing you've got to do to get out of debt. Well, just don't spend anything. If you don't need it, you don't have to spend money. would you please run for congress please please please we need you desperately hell out of here we need you if you don't need it just don't buy it ta-da in the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil but a foolish man devours all he has wise people save money yeah you got it man you're a wise man yeah what's the one thing that you married a wise woman you wish you could a bought? Maybe his, a truck before, he still doesn't have it, but yeah, he's been wanting a truck. That's what I can save up and get one pretty quick, huh? Yeah, no house payment. We had to cut

a lot of things. Do what? We had to cut a lot of things. Yeah, now, now you, what's the first big thing now that you don't have a house payment? What's the thing you're going to go by right now? We're just going to do a couple of house projects, pay cash for that, and travel a little bit more. Okay, good. Good. Good. Breathe a little. Yeah. Because you've been getting it. Yeah, you've been shoveling hard. Yeah. So, way to go, you too.

I'm very proud of you. You're heroes. You're amazing. Those two beautiful children there have had their whole lives changed, and your grandchildren and your great-grandchildren's lives have been changed because of you paying a price to win. You're amazing. Very cool. All right, bring them up and introduce them. I want to meet them.

What are their names and ages? Amy, she's 10. And this is Kate. She's seven. Oh, they're beautiful. All right. Very cool. Very cool.

I think they're daddy's girls I'm about to say something When you watch If you go back and watch this YouTube Watching a dad Smile that big as he watches his daughters Is one of my favorite things In the whole wide world

Seeing a dad so proud of his two beautiful daughters Amazing man you guys are just Yeah we're very proud of them For being with us during our struggles This is so cool Living this experience with us Yeah they'll remember They'll remember even being here

And doing that weird Dead Free Scream thing know that we're, he'll be a guy in Tennessee. Yeah. But that marked the time. This is the time. Your whole thing has changed now. It's all changed and you did it.

Very, very well done. Ready for the sandwich generation. Amen. Sure. Amen. Well, there's that. But we can put some meat on the sandwich. I'm just saying.

All right. Very good. All right. Aladio, Carla, Amy, and Kate from Los Angeles. $600,000 house is paid for. $312,000 in debt paid off in five years. working at UPS and is a cook in a restaurant. And she is a physical therapist assistant or PT?

PTA. PTA. Okay, perfect. Yeah, cool. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Ready? Three, two, one.

We're debt free! Yeah! Wow! Boom! Yes It never gets old I've been doing this 30 years And I never ceased to get choked up

Especially when somebody that works That's stinking hard to make this happen That on gotten That's incredible Absolutely incredible Absolutely incredible You're going to be able to be. You know,

get about one more important step and that's while you're playing defense you can play off I mean you're playing offense you need to also play defense and that's insurance having the right coverage as opposed to too little or too much and not getting junk coverage and all that stuff skimping on insurance or buying stupid insurance these things will kill you they'll mess up your math big time so how do you know will you take the free coverage checkup at ramesysolutions com. It's a free online resource that creates a personalized insurance action plan unique to you and your situation. Makes an overly confusing topic, easy to understand, gives you clear next steps. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash checkup to take the coverage checkup or click the

link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Amy is in Philadelphia. Hi, Amy, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Great. I have a question. I have a rental property, and I've had a tenant who's been in there for three years, and she just lost her job, and she wasn't able to pay August rent, and I'm trying to follow up with September rent.

And I want to be, you know, aware of her situation, but I also just wanted to see maybe how you would handle, you know, not getting paid her portion of the rent and what I can do to work with her. Her portion of the rent? Yeah, so there's three tenants. And there's three tenants, and I just charge a monthly fee. However, they pay for it. They pay for it.

So they just split it up in three ways is how they've been paying for it. So the other two are paying their rent, but the other one, you know, she lost her job. so do you have a lease with the three of them in total or a lease with yeah each individual um three of them in total okay so the only way you evict is all of them correct and the other people are sitting there thinking they're current uh i think because they think they paid their part and they think you're okay yeah i talked to her and see if she wanted to bring the other like if I should bring the other tenants into it. Oh, definitely.

They're on the lease. They're going to get evicted with her. Right. Yeah, so they needed to have already been in the loop, like as immediately as soon as you were. So, okay, guys, here's the thing. The three of you have together told me you're going to pay me X number of dollars. You chose to split it up three ways. Okay?

So you are behind on your rent group. okay because of her losing her job now do you guys want to come together and cover her until she gets a job or how are we going to work this out right you need to sit down with the three of them are you near the property physically i'm not um i'm about two hours away okay then get on get a phone call with all three of them on the phone and say here's what's going on I probably should have brought you into the loop a little bit sooner because you probably feel like you're current and you're not. Okay.

So now, then from that position, once we've gotten clarity on where we all stand, that either we, all three, pay all the rent or we all three can't stay. Long term, that's our solution. Now, then from that point, everybody's on the same page, everybody can talk, and then you can decide how much mercy and grace you want to dole out. Okay. You've already doled out a month of one-third. Right.

Okay. And you're getting ready to dole out another month of one-third, like today. Correct. Right? So how long are you going to go along with this before she goes and gets a job doing DoorDash and pays her dad gum rent? yeah um i i guess i don't know that you need to know you're going to get taken advantage of if you don't know i don't care how much generosity or mercy you want to extend it doesn't bother me a bit

because i do the same thing we had a tenant that had cancer and we didn't charge them rent for four months but we said at the outset when the chemo starts we're going to give you four months and let's see how this goes you've been a good tenant for three years we're just going to forgive the We're not going to charge you. You've got enough to deal with. I don't know any money on the house. You can live here free for four months. And after four months, we're going to revisit in the third month before we decide how long.

But we're not going to do this for eight years while you go through chemo. Right. I guess, like, it would say for me would probably be three months because I do have the security deposit, which would cover, like, her third, like if she didn't pay for three months. Yeah. Okay, so, you know, it might sound like, here's what I want to do. The first thing I want to do, shock them, eh, and stick them with the cattle prod, all right, and get everybody on the same page where they're going, oh, no, oh, crap, right?

And we go, okay, wait a minute, we are all getting ready to have to move because June doesn't have a job, right? Or whatever her name is, right? And so we got to figure this out together. We have a problem, not June, all right? And not Amy. Amy doesn't have a problem. Amy's getting ready to get her house back. So now, now based on that, guys, here's what I'm willing to do.

You guys get together and figure out a way to cover September and October between June working part-time jobs while she's looking for a full-time job and you two chipping in. And I'll forgive her portion for August. Okay. Or something like that. You can offer a gift, but only in context of a lot. limited arrangement. Does that also, does that make sense to you? Yeah, it does.

It does. Because, like, I mean, I've already gone without in August, so I don't know. Yeah, and you're probably going to go without in September, unless you get on the phone today. Right. But you guys can, you guys can catch me up a little bit later in September, but the three of you, between a part-time job and the two of you catching on to what's going on here, need to come up with September's rent.

And you two, go ahead and send me your two-thirds. we've got to come up with June's third, and then y'all figure out between now and October how to do it, and y'all get current and stay current, and in return, I'll forgive one third of this just to try to help y'all make the corner, but she needs to go get a job. Listen, there's not a program where she stays free anywhere, homeless shelter, but that's it. And Amy, her roommates, her friends are going to be an infinitely more influential voice. in her life than yours. You have an on-off switch. You have an either-or switch. They can sit down with her and say,

hey, we love you. We're going to help you with your resume. We're going to call our friends. We'll see if we can get you a job here. But if you're looking to be graceful for life change, they're going to be closer to that. You just have a big hammer. And you can be kind and gentle, but firm.

Exactly. I love that. Okay. And you're not being firm right now. You've been very vague and unclear. gotcha because right now they think they're okay and that's not fair to them the two that paid their rent they think everything's cool right and the way you've got this lease structured it ain't cool they're in jeopardy too right so um it's all it's not again we're not trying to be mean but first thing i want to do is throw cold water and everybody gets awake and now we've turned the lights on in the room and now that the lights are on in the room everybody can talk and we go okay now how can we all work together to solve this in a gentle and kind compassionate way, but a very effective business-like way at the same time. And so we're going to solve the problem. We're going to solve for the problem. And then you're going to put some of it on them.

You're going to help a little. I don't know if you give up August or not. That was a suggestion of mine. It's not a mandatory thing. You're not a horrible person if you don't. You're not a horrible person if you give up her third for August and September. I don't care. But I do care for a lack of clarity. You're going to get yourself in a bind, and you're not being fair to them. and I do care the lack of clarity also on no limitations. There has to be an end of this because there's no place if you got cancer or you don't have a job. There's no place that you live for free ultimately. I mean, we can be kind for, but this is not forever.

This is not an infinite spectrum. There has to be at some point there's an end to it. And that's where people remember the story 25 years later when they don't put limits on stuff. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. 26 Ramsey goal planner is available right now. This isn't just your average planner. It's your personal guide to setting clear goals and building habits that stick. So get ready for all new monthly content from your favorite Ramsey personalities, tactical goal-setting trackers, and upgrades that make this our most durable planner yet. Last year we sold out, so don't miss out.

Order your 2026 Ramsey goal planner for 4997 today at ramsysolutions.com slash store. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality Number one, bestselling author, is my co-host. Samantha is in California. Hi, Samantha. How are you? Hi there. Thanks for taking my call.

I'm good. Sure. What's up? How can we help? So I've listened to you and followed your plan for years. We're currently on baby set six. I'm employed and I also co-own a business with my husband. Unfortunately, we're probably getting divorced due to infidelity on his side. And I will receive a substantial settlement after the division of our assets.

With the divorce money, I'll be paying off the rest of the mortgage that I'll be debt-free. My question is, with the remaining money, should I keep my lifestyle the same? so that it doesn't change much for my three young kids in me, or should I save it and invest it for the future and just live off of my income? Okay, so one of the things that's being divested is your half of the business that you run together? Correct, yes. But you're still going to be working there? No, so he would need to buy me out of the business.

Okay, so what will you be doing for a living then? so I am a nurse so I have a good income from that oh so you're all you're currently are nursing and working in the business yes oh okay I'm misunderstood all right I'm back with you now and so the um okay so what do you make as a nurse so I make about 90,000 a year gross good that's excellent it's a great career by the way you get picking shoes what you want to do when you want to do it and make a lot of money um can and you can live on that i assume with a paid for house yes yeah i've run through the finances and we would be fine okay and how old are your babies they are five six and seven okay and if you can live on 90,000 in a paid for house

that is not the lifestyle that the five-year-old is accustomed to um so they go to a private christian school. They're in all kinds of sports. We travel a lot. And so it's just, it would be cutting back on some things. It would just be like a little bit tighter for what they're used to. Who's paying for the Christian? You're all splitting the Christian school and the divorce? That's a good question. He doesn't love the idea that they're there, so it would probably fall on me he would rather than be at a public well you haven't negotiated the settlement yeah i don't care what he wants he decided he wanted somebody else and that takes a lot of the care what he wants out of the whole thing so i don't give a crap what he wants um the um once he decides not to behave

my care for him's gone away so the uh da da da da da all right so what do you guys uh make now what's your current household income? It's hard with the business. I've run the numbers for the actual business valuation, and it's about $1.7 million. The valuation, but I mean, what's your income? Correct. I'm going to a couple hundred a year, and then you're making $90 a year? Yeah.

Okay. All right. But he's going to be paying child support, correct? Of course. Yes. And substantial in California with a $250,000. income. And what is the lump sum you're getting? How much money? What I've calculated out to be would be, like, after paying off the house and keeping the

equity in the house, because I'm assuming I'm going to hopefully be able to stay in the house, I would get around $650,000. Okay. So if we pretend like that doesn't exist, and we count child support, and you live on $90,000, we deal with the Christian school and the divorce decree. He pays half and you pay half, I think you can trim some of the travel sports back and a little bit of the ultra luxury travel back and get your life in a sustainable situation on 100 grand a year. That's what I would do. I would not touch the $6.50. I'd pay off the house, and then you ought to be able to live on $90, even in California.

And believe me, the ones that are going to be more impacted by the lifestyle cut than anyone is you, and they're going to take their cues from you. They're five. They don't, they really don't. Like, oh, you mean we don't get to fly private? You know, that doesn't come up with a five-year-old. Right, yeah. Here's two things I want you to be, one thing to be careful of

and one thing to be super cognizant of, okay? The first thing is this. You have calculated on the back of a napkin, probably anxiously typing away at Excel sheets, or however you're dealing with the stress of all of this. whatever number you've come up with will probably not be the final number. Right. And the problem with that is if you have imagined that you're going to get a check for $1.2 million,

pay off the $600,000 remaining on the house and put $650 grand, if you get a check for a million dollars, you're going to feel like he stole $200,000 from you. Your kids will feel it. You'll feel it. The whole thing will go south. And so I want you to open, be very open-handed with the imaginary money you're playing with right now because you're going to, they're going to get three different evaluations of this business that might range all over the place in a divorce court or a mediator might tell you to take the average, who knows how this rolls out. And so it's holding it very open-handed. You're entering into a very messy, heartbreaking situation.

Okay. And I get on your side trying to control every variable because some guy just blew your life up. I get that impulse. And you want to take care of your kids. Mama bear's coming out. I get all that. But just hold the math part very loosely. Not because I want you to be weak in the negotiation. Not at all. Be firm and strong. I want you to take everything in the negotiation. That's not the point. Matter of fact, I'd be okay if you got 1.5 when you come out of this thing. So it suits me fine. He chose. It's just an expensive. decision what he made. And so the, because a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction, an adversarial business transaction. Yeah, not a win-win business transaction, but adversarial. Yeah. And so child support, lump sums for businesses, alimony, all of those things are on the table until they're not on the table and you agree to whatever you agree to in the settlement. But we start with I'm holding a winning hand and you screwed up. That's where we start. And so, and then we, you know, then we decide which cards we want to play, which chips we want to move to the center, those kinds of things, to John's point. But don't get all dialed in on a certain number

and then only to find out that you missed one of your calculations. Or he has hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt you don't know about. And it's going to, who knows what the, what plays out when people start opening up all their bank accounts, the text messages, et cetera. Here's the thing I want you to be very careful of. People like to say things like I don't want my kids' lives to change.

And you need to exhale that every part of their life is different now. And so too late. Fully owning their sports is going to be different. Their Saturday mornings are going to be different because now you're going to be working full time. And so your ability to just hop in a car

and go on a trip or to do this sport or that sport or whatever, everything things different now. And so trying to hang on to their life as it is and duct tape all this other stuff to it creates an angst in that house that those kids, it will just permeate their bodies. So exhaling and saying, the life we had is over. What life do we want to build with my current salary, with the settlement, with our house, or selling the house, whatever. And we're solving for peace. Build something new and solve for peace. Don't solve for trying to keep everything exactly the same as it was. Because they know it's not the same. It's not the same.

Because it's not the same. what's up guys george camel here if you've been thinking about making a real difference in your community this is your moment people are drowning in money stress right now and you can be the one who helps them by them by leading a Financial Peace University class. It's totally free for you and we hook you up with all the tools and support you need. So if you're ready to help people ditch debt, save money, and actually sleep at night, go to FPU.com slash lead to learn more. That's FPU.com slash lead. Someone who really does it, not just got their license. Your Aunt Selle's never sold a house, but she got a license. I don't want her in my corner.

I want an expert in my corner. The Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find a high-octane, high-protein top agent in your area that you can trust. To help you make your home a blessing, not a burden. To find a local Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Pro for free, go to ramsysolutions.com slash agent, or just click the description in the show notes. Shannon's in Iowa. and how are you? Hi, Dave and John.

Thank you so much for taking my call today. It's truly an honor to talk to both of you. You too. What's up? Gee, I am actually hoping that you guys could provide a little bit of reassurance and maybe just be that good sounding board for my husband and I. Okay. Just to give you some contacts, we are currently in Baby Step 6 thanks to your plans and practices,

so thank you for everything you do. But I wanted to kind of get your guys' opinion. So my husband has currently been on a night shift for about 10 years now, and he currently brings home about 70% of our $220,000 income each year. The issue that we're running into is he is finally hitting his breaking points. He's busted his back for the last 10 years. He's just getting burnt out. We have four small kids at home, and he's just, you know, they're getting involved.

What does he make if he goes to day shift? Well, I'm sorry. What does he make? He makes $150 now. What's he make if he goes to day shift? So it would be dramatically cut. So we're looking at almost 50% in a decrease. So it would be about $80,000.

Okay. And you make $70? Yep, yep, around there. Okay, so you would live on $150 instead of $2.20, and you're in Baby Step 6. Correct. How much is your house payment? It is $2,100. Well, I don't know why you could.

couldn't do that in Iowa. Exactly. So just to give some contacts, I ran some numbers, and that is, you know, in the every dollar, that's still putting away $1,400 for extra payment because we're aggressively trying to get out of baby step six. Yeah, what do you owe in your home? We owe $292, and it's valued at about $1,000. It's going to be a while, going to be a while, yeah, all right.

Yep. That's okay. So, how old are you guys? So my husband is 38, I'm 35, and then that is, we are very blessed with our employer that we do get end-of-year profit sharing. So last year alone, it was about $25,000, which we... That was not in the $220,000 you gave me? That is not, no. Oh, so that's not your real income.

Your real income is $250. Yeah. All right. So, Shannon, here's the thing. Here's the thing. I would go to day shifts as soon as I could if I were you. Okay. under one big condition.

Yes. Both of us look at the every dollar budget and agree, we're going to live on that. Yep. So you can't, you can't like, oh, surprise. No, we're not surprised. We're like grownups. We're looking at the numbers. We are willing to live on this number instead of that number.

Yep. And that's our Sunday tradition. And we look at our every dollar budget every Sunday, and we are so in sync. And I think that the part of him is in the manufacturing world. So he's in a factory, a hot factory. Okay. So he's on the line. He's working on the line.

Yes. Okay. All right. Very aggressive, but he is a provider. That's what he knows to do. So I think he's just nervous. And I show him the numbers, but he doesn't. believe me. So I'm like, you know what? I'm going to call Dave and John.

Hey, Shannon, this one's not about numbers. No. This is about worth and purpose. Yep. And putting away the spreadsheets and looking across the table and holding both of his hands and looking them in the eye and saying, honey, I'm so proud of you. We did it. We did it. We're here. You gave up, literally he's going to die younger for that decade. He worked nights.

You gave up years off your life so that we could breathe. And now it's trying to breathe. You're a good man. he needs that more than he needs a spreadsheet from you right now wonderful wonderful man he needs that he needs that and by the way he put in his 10 years he's going to go back to day shift for about seven or eight months and someone's going to take him for management he's going to double his salary right back he's putting his time right he's grounded out if he wants it he may not want that no he's sad he's like i just want to be home with my babies i want to be able to be you can do that and be a management micdouble you can do both yep you can do

can do a. So during the same day hours that you'll be on the line day hours. So there's no shame in that. So here's, yeah, John's right. This is not about numbers. And here's the transition. When you're in baby steps one through three, you're intense and you work nights and overtime and you live on beans and rice until you get out of debt. When you're in four, five, and six where you're saving for retirement, kids college, and you're paying off your house, you move from intense to intentional. And that's all I'm doing. I'm agreeing with you to move to intentional. Intentional says you can live on 70 grand less, slows down the speed at which we pay off the house. Whoopty-dupty, you're going to get there.

Yep. And that's what I'm telling them. I'm like, we can do it. I think it's just a security blanket. I want him to grow up enough to look at the numbers and like a grown-up and go, oh, the math does work. Not my mommy told me it was okay if I come home. Yep.

But it's different. Then his mommy, it's his wife saying, no, I want you to come home. Yeah. yeah that's a totally different conversation and i think it's just getting past that provider and indeed he is a provider where he's sitting at for 38 and his 401k it's not that it's not that it's not that touchdown it's it's not about money it's not about money you did it you did it you scored we did it we did it yeah yeah we got there we're scored and look at the numbers buddy listen you can know yeah you did it we together did it you

sacrificed to do it look at the numbers be a grown-up go oh the numbers say i'm okay that's what the numbers say. My wife says it's okay, but the numbers also. As a grown man, I can look at the numbers and say, the numbers say it's okay. It's not rocket surgery. No. And also, after a decade, if you're a night shift guy, that becomes who you are. It becomes your identity, becomes your gang. And so he's going to have to shift his identity. Yeah. I'm now a guy who works his butt off during the day, and then I go home and I'm a present dad. And I get to, you know, tickle fight on the floor. Hello. Exactly. Hello. Thank you. Thank you, Lord. It's a good thing.

Yeah, man, you'll work real hard for this moment. Definitely needs to do it as soon as possible. But you've got to believe it with the numbers and with the people that love you speaking into your life and speaking blessings over you. And that's what John's talking about. So that's the way you do it. Joe's with us. Joe's in Detroit. Hi, Joe.

What's up? Hi, Dave. Hi, guys. I really appreciate your phone call. Sure. How can we help? I have a question about my mortgage. So I own about $55,000.

on my mortgage right now, and I have about 70,000 in a high-yield fund right now. Cool. Pay it off. Today. Pay it off right now. You have a paid for a house, homie. That's so fun. See, that's what I'm... Okay, so my financial advisor, so I'm making about 5.4% on my fund right now. And my mortgage interest rate is only like three and a quarter. Hey, you need a new financial advisor. Your financial advisor is a moron. Because he's making 3% on the spread, too. He's not making anything.

Nobody's making anything. This is 5%. Hey, dude, look at this. $55,000 times 2% is $1,000. Woo-hoo! Whoopty, doppedy. You can't buy a biscuit with this guy's. advice. Well, yeah. For the last like four or five months, I've been putting an extra

thousand dollars on my mortgage today. Hey, hey, pay. What are you doing? Listen, if your house was paid for it, would you go get a mortgage at three percent to invest it at five? I hope not. Yeah, I know. Pay it off today. And fire your guy, man. Get you a guy who's got a brain. Pay it off. If you hate it. If you wake up to months from now and you're like, Ramsey was nuts. I hate not owing anybody on my house. I hate my mortgage. I miss my mortgage. You can go down to a local bank and take out a loan. They'll hook you up. They'll hook you up. 30 years of doing this. I've never had anybody call me go, Dave Ramsey, I hate you because when I paid off my mortgage, I just, I was miserable. I wanted one

so bad. I wanted a mortgage so bad. Your advice is so horrible. I wouldn't got another one. I've never had that one time. I've had people pissed at me for almost everything, but not that Ha ha ha ha ha ha Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's Day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication, and more. This weekend is happening on February

12th through the 14th and early bird prices start at $749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets today at ramsysolutions.com slash events. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Jennifer's with us. Hi, Jennifer, how are you? Hi, good. How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. How much debt have you paid? $205,000. Awesome. Where are you from? From Milford, Connecticut. Okay, cool.

And how long did it take you? Yeah, how long to take you pay off $205,000? When I got focused, it was five years and six months. Five years. Very cool. That's amazing. And what was your range of income during that five years? Started out around 78 and ended around 165.

Cool. What do you do for a living? I work in the aerospace industry. Doing what? So I'm in the business management side. Oh, okay. You know, basically. So you manage right?

rocket scientist. Yeah. Okay. That's good. It's fun. Is that stressful? Somebody's got it would be tough. Somebody's like brain surgeon. Yeah, it is. I have to hold people accountable. Yeah. Who know way too much. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Well, and if you know how to build a rocket, I assume you just assume you know how to do everything else on the planet also, right? Sure. So what kind of debt was the 205? Um, a little under 15,000 for student loans and the rest was my mortgage. Yeah. Yeah. You're a weirdo. A paid off house. Boom! Boom! What's this How's how's worth, girl? Right now, it's worth about 415. Very cool. And how much in your nest egg in your retirement? Just shy of 300,000. All right. Heading towards millionaire. Almost baby steps millionaire.

So, how old are you? I'm 45. All right. Way to go, kiddo. Congrats. Excellent. You rocked it. Very, very cool. All right, tell me this story, because you're all put together. You hang out with rocket scientists, but you decide we're going to go game on. Five years. We're not going to. out mortgage and everything. How did you get connected to Ramsey? Tell me how this all worked out. So I got connected the first time in about 2005. That's when I gave my life to the Lord and heard about it through my church. Wow. And I gave my life to the Lord and immediately went into like a Job season. Oh. Yeah. Like every time you think it can't get worse, it got worse. Oh my gosh. And, you know, there wasn't any irresponsibility or sin or anything like that. It was just life happening. Tragedy after tragedy. Yeah. It was really intense.

and my pastors gifted me a scholarship to go through FPU. Oh, wow. But I literally had nothing to work with. So it was like information, and I'm a total nerd. So it was always there, but I literally had nothing to work with. And then basically in 2015, I was starting to kind of dig back out of the hole by the grace of God. And I got this job. offer to move from Kansas City to Connecticut and I'm like, heck yeah, I'm going to make the move.

This is a great opportunity. So when I got to Connecticut and I had a real income, which was fabulous, I started remembering, hey, FPU, I've got to get back with that. So I went through a course again. And then I started building an estate because when I went through this season, I lost everything. literally negative net worth I should have been on the upward trajectory of life I'm a single woman by design I don't have children I don't have a plan on getting married and so when you're by yourself and you lose everything it's very it can be very burdensome that's an

understatement how about terror that's a scary place to be yeah yeah it was there's no safety net there's no support mechanism there I mean I was I was staring homelessness in the face. It was very real. So when I started rebuilding, my instinct was to save everything. Yeah, yeah. That's a good instinct. I bought a house.

The Lord literally tucked it away from me. It's a beautiful original Victorian. It's like a life-sized doll house, and I knew I had about a five-year window before I needed to do some major repairs and upkeep. And I was saving away, had a nice big fat nest egg for that, and was continuing to just pay minimums. And then I was entering into my, just before my 40th birthday, and the Lord just really convicted me. And he's like, you've got money in your account to get rid of those student loans today. And I'm like, okay. So for me, that was a huge leap of faith because when you have nothing, and then all of a sudden you have something,

Giving it away feels like the rug's going to get pulled out again. But I trusted him and I did it. And then I started saving again. It just astounded me how quickly it came back. Then I was working on the different repairs for the house, saving up that fund and got to last summer. And construction prices were just through the roof. They were ridiculous, wanting $60,000, $70,000 to rebuild a port.

or $100,000 for 18 windows. It was ridiculous. I felt like I wasn't making progress. So I asked the Lord, I'm like, what do I do? Like, I've got all this money saved. And he said, pay off the house in one year. And my jaw dropped on the floor because at that time, my mortgage balance was about $145,000. I pulled $72,000 out of my nest egg, slapped it on the balance.

And then every penny that was going to my floating fund, I'm sorry, my sinking fund, I put it on, I put it on the mortgage, and it was gone in nine months. How's it feel? Surreal, amazing. Like, I live on $600 a month. It's stupid. It's ridiculous. And I just rebuilt my porch, which was a huge project.

Payed cash for that. Oh, yeah, paid cash for that. I'm getting ready to do, you know, the siting in the windows. I got a contractor that's so reasonable. Mm-hmm. And when you're standing there with cash, and you don't have to do anything, they're reasonableness changes.

Yes, yeah. Yeah, they can tell. Yeah. Wow. What adventure, dude. You have developed through this journey a backbone of steel. I mean, we can just feel the strength emanating off you, not only from your faith, but just the journey has toughened you.

And so there's nothing comes at you. You're ready. I'm ready. Yeah, there's... It's pretty cool. Yeah, there's nothing. There's nothing that can really... We get these calls about once every two weeks with someone who's on the edge of homelessness.

Yeah. And hopelessness. Talk to them for a second. I was there. I'll never forget the day sitting on the steps of my house going, what's the safest parking lot that I could sleep in? My first home was taken. when all of the big three mortgage companies were erroneously foreclosing. They erroneously foreclosed on my house.

And I just had major surgery, and I had 10 days. It just big orange sticker on my house. You don't own this anymore, and I didn't even know that they were taking my house. I was current. Wow. But it was done. And the only thing that I knew was I was about a two-year-old Christian. I knew that my, you know, what I learned is that, you know, the Lord is my provider.

He can bring me through. And my precious pastors told me, you will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. This is not the end of the story. And I hung on to that. I genuinely did every day. That's a word right there. And it came true, too. Yeah, it really did.

So we know that was the word. Yeah. So I just one little miracle at a time. Things came together. I was not homeless. I always had somewhere safe to sleep. And it was a couple year. Don't depend on the savings account.

Depend on me. Pay off the student loans. Yeah. Don't depend on the savings account. Yep. Pay off the house. Yep. Depend on me.

Yes. Depend on me. Yes. Depend on me. You've had a steady message. Yeah. That's a decade, isn't it? Yeah.

Or more. It's 15 years. Well, yeah. 15 years. Yeah. Wow. Wow. What a walk. Yeah. And during it, I mean, the journey just from, you know, five, six years ago,

I had major surgery on my back, you know, 27 staples up my low back. Oh, I shouldn't have said backbone of steel, should I? No, I literally. You do. Who knew? God, don't play, yeah. Be careful with that. Okay. Yeah.

Wow. Proud of you. Way to go. Yeah. Yeah, you are Wonder Woman for sure. I'm so proud of you. Thanks. All right. Jennifer from Milford, Connecticut, like no other.

$5,000 paid off house and everything in five years, making 78 to 165 from homeless to there. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, and one. I am debt-free. Yeah. So, amazing. Yeah.

Wow. Man. I'm getting soft in my old age, David. These keep getting... I've been soft in my old age. I cried in Applebee's commercial. Our Scripture of the day, Colossians 4.6, let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you may know how. to answer everyone.

Thomas Sowell said, we all enter the world knowing nothing, but by the time we're teenagers, we know it all. Sometimes it takes decades later before we know enough to realize how little we know.

Chris is in Memphis. Hey, Chris, how are you? Hey, I'm doing good, Dave. Thanks, taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? My wife and I are in baby six, and I'm transitioning from intensity

to intentionality. And now I want to sign up for a country club membership at the club where I grew up playing golf with my dad and my brother every weekend because I want to give that same experience to my son who's four and a half right now. And the only thing hold me back is I think, would Dave say go do it or would he say it was stupid? And then I thought, well, I can just call him and ask him. Okay. When is Dave Ramsey ever called anybody's – never mind. So, Chris, how much is the do, are the initiation and how much of the dues? The initiation is 5K.

The dues are $5.15 months plus $85 for food and pev. I'm currently spending about $3,000? For the initiation, yeah. That's all? Yeah. Oh, I thought that was a whole bunch of money. I was going to say, get a Zepko and take them fishing. There's plenty of country clubs and golf clubs.

that are half a million, 250,000. Plenty of, nobody's angry. We got the lowest cost of living around. That's good. Okay, so $5,000 and $500 a month, and what's your household income? About $120,000. Okay. And you're obviously putting 15% away for retirement,

and you're working on a budget with your wife and you're in agreement. Right. And what is her opinion of this purchase? I told her, hey, I want to sign up with this country club. What do you think? And instead of asking me any questions, she just said, yeah, if you want to, go ahead and do it. I think over the last 11 years of our marriage, I think I've just built up a level of trust with her in handling our finances that she didn't even ask. So she didn't even ask how much it was like I did?

No, but I went ahead and told her anyway, but she green lit it before I told her. she needs to be careful it could have been a half a million okay um but you wouldn't have brought it to her because you're trustworthy okay anyway uh well i've got wife agreement i have money it's within the budget it's something you desire to do i think people at your stage buy five thousand dollar couches or 15 thousand dollar cars or go on five thousand dollar cruises or $10,000 cruises, don't they? And that fits in our plan. That's part of being intentional in Baby Steps 4 through 6 while you're hitting your

other goals. You just have, you save the money to do that. And you, you know, you're pulling $5.50 a month out, including your F&B. But, um, uh, uh, I, it, it, it checks all the boxes. I would do it. Okay, cool. No, it's not stupid. What you're doing is you're thinking through, does this affect my life?

Does it prevent me from hitting other goals that are more important than this goal? The answer is no, because it's a small amount of money in ratio to your income and your situation. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, it's just when I say it out loud to people, and I'm thinking about doing it, all I can hear myself saying is I want to buy a boat. You know, so it just sounds silly when I say it out loud. because, you know, I just went through all the other baby steps, and we were super intense, and now... Well, you weren't intense, so you live like no one else, so later you can live and give like no one else.

Yeah. That's why you did that, and so that's moving from intense to intentional. You had the right verbiage when you started the call, right? It just, it feels weird because you sacrifice to get here, and then the first time you actually draw back and enjoy a little of it, or the first time you draw back and have a sizable generosity move, like if you gave away $5,000, you'll have that same emotion. Like it kind of feels weird.

Like, am I going to be okay if I do this? That kind of emotion. And that's the, because it's a muscle you've not been used to using, you've been using the frugality muscle only, not the generosity or enjoyment muscle. And it's a new, it's new.

And it takes a little time to get there. I think you do it, though. Kate's in California. Hey, Kate, what's up? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So my question is regarding, well, basically it boils down to at what point do my husband and I call it quits on a business venture.

How long you've been doing it? About five or six years. Wow. Is that your full-time gig? No. So let me give you a little back story. My husband is a creator. He's a writer and a comic book artist,

and he's been working on some intellectual properties that he wants to either self-publish or sell to, like, a large company, and sort of break his way into the entertainment industry, basically. When he first started doing this, I told him that I would not feel comfortable paying for this or funding it with our household income. I said, you know, I'll support you in doing this and trying this, but you're going to have to go do a side gig or something to fund it. He's been paying artists to create these artworks for him, basically. So it's been about five years of him doing gig work, like working, you know,

so he's invested a ton in it and has made no money. Correct. So this is not a business. This is a hobby. Businesses have a profit. Businesses have profit. Right. And that's kind of my attitude about it.

No, that's not an attitude. That's a fact. It's a fact. Yeah. Right. His hobby is imagining a thing and then hiring an artist to make that thing come alive. But he's made no money with it. Correct.

And he's just crossed a threshold where somebody can sneeze and a computer can just do it now for you. Right. I mean, there's a lot of things about it that are becoming frustrating to me. Like what? But, well, it's just we have four kids. I'm the primary breadwinner in our household. He, he... Okay, it's not becoming frustrating.

He is becoming frustrating. He's been frustrating a long time, and you're entering into resentment. Yes. And you need to put that conversation on the table, clear as kind. The best way you can love him right now is to put all that on the table. Yeah. Because he's choosing a hobby and part-time gigs over five years to... to, over his wife and kids and their stability.

It's not even like he's an actor and he keeps getting gigs and he's getting more and he's pushing it and he's going. That's not even happening here. This has been 100% outlay, no income. None. Right. And it's, yeah, and he's, you know, but I have to say I do, I'm a creative person myself. This has nothing to do with being a creative. It has to do with being a responsible adult.

Creatives can be responsible adults. I are both creatives, but when you make humans, you're, you also are creative when you're a parent, and that's where the bulk of your energy goes. Yeah, you get, you get to take care of your family. I get to be creative only after my wife and kids have been served. Yeah. Or I get to be creative in a way that makes a profit so that my wife and kids are served. Like writing a best-selling book. That would be a creative thing. But the book sold a million copies, hello. So there's that. And that's the thing. That's the thing You got to, you know.

Or I do creative stuff. I play music. So we can't just, you're trying to be sweet to his dreamer self. But here's the thing. If you, we love people who dream. We don't love people who live in them. You need to do something with the dream. Leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home.

So my daughters were teenagers. If they came in and said, Daddy, he's the nicest guy. He's a dreamer. thinking, oh, God, they're going to live in my basement. Okay? So you don't want to live people that live in their dreams. We want people who execute out of the dream and turn it into a vision, a goal, a strategy, an implementation that makes money. We have to feed our family.

So, yeah, you guys got some marriage work to do. Yes, he needs to close the hobby down because it's frustrating his wife to the point she's calling us. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.