The Ramsey Show - Money Stress Isn’t Always About Money

Episode Date: April 18, 2025

📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan 📱 Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. While we are out for Good Friday, we've compiled some of our favorite Rachel and John calls from 2024. Enjoy the long weekend and we'll be back with a live show on Monday! Rachel Cruze & John Delony answer your questions and discuss: ‘My parents are threatening to kick me out?’ 'My girlfriend moved in but doesn't have a job’ ‘I took my brother's job after he got fired.’ ‘Why am I jealous of other people's income?' ‘Living paycheck-to-paycheck making $300K’ ‘I can't afford rent, what can I do?’ Next Steps: ✅ Help us make the show better by taking this short survey! 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET or send us an email.  💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🛒 Get your copy of Build a Business You Love today 🎟️ Dave Ramsey and John Delony are going on tour this month! Get tickets today Connect with our Sponsors: 🛒 Stop paying more and start shopping smarter at Aldi 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp 📱Go to Boost Mobile to switch today! 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY ⛨ Find top Health Insurance Plans at Health Trust Financial 💸 To find out more about student loan refinancing, check out Laurel Road 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at The Nokbox 🎥 Get your tickets for The Chosen Season 5! 💵 Learn more about Timothy Plan 🏛 Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Explore more from Ramsey Network: 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, this is Dave Ramsey from the Ramsey Show Podcast. If you're sick of money stress and tired of living paycheck to paycheck, we're here to help. Check out our latest episode streaming now on Amazon Music. Brought to you by the Every Dollar App. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend, the bestselling author, Dr. John Deloney. And we are answering your questions about life, relationships career anything and everything so give us a call at triple eight eight two five five two two five Alright, we're gonna go to the phones and is it Torin from Boston?

Hey, welcome to the show Hey guys, thank you guys take my call. Absolutely. Is it Torin did I get that right? Yep, but that's perfect. Absolutely. Is it Torrin? Did I get that right? Yep, that's perfect. Awesome. How can we help? So I'm an 18 year old and I'm a senior in high school this year and I wanted pretty much advice on what to tell my parents about college. I've been watching you guys for a while now and I know the biggest thing was, you know, don't go into debt,

don't take out loans if you can, try and cash flow it. So I figured I would want to go to a cheaper school. I was in Massachusetts, so a community college is free. So I figured I would go there and I could transfer to a state school where it's in 100% acceptance rate after out of the community college I want to go to. And my parents were very against this idea. They wanted me to go play a sport in college and go to a private university. They told me that like debt doesn't matter. And yeah, I just wanted to make sure I was making the right decision because they don't agree with it.

Are they paying for it? I went to community college. No, they're not paying for it. Yeah, they don't get a vote then. I brought that up, but they said they're going to be kicking me out. They don't have to pay for housing. They also like take the car and my phone away. I mean, if they want to throw a grown-up temper

tantrum that's like them that's like the most babyish thing of ever wait yeah I want to know more why that's so that's so that's so that feels very extreme like it's one thing if your parents kind of like turn their nose up at community college because they're educated oh my gosh can't believe you're gonna come you guys but to kick you out and take your car and your phone, I mean, that's a... Or if they said... Is there a religious element to this?

Like to go to a Catholic school? No. Or like any level of like a religion conviction there? No, I don't really understand why. They just said it would look bad on a resume and I think I'm making the wrong decision. They said I was being pretty rude about it, so I think that's why.

Well, I have no problem with the parents saying, hey, as for me and my house, you're going to this school and we're paying for it. And if you wanna go somewhere else, you're on your own. I have no problem with that at all. That happens all the time. And if they say, hey, in this house, we go to Harvard. And so we've created this fund

and you're going to Harvard if you get in. I have no problem with that. If they tell you, you will not go to that school And so we've created this fund and you're going to Harvard if you get in. I have no problem with that. If they tell you, you will not go to that school that you can afford, which is free, you will go take out loans and put yourself behind for the next 15 years of your life or 20 years of your life, depending on what private school you go to. And if you don't do that,

we're gonna take your cell phone night. We're gonna take our ball and we're gonna go home. We're not playing with you anymore. That just sounds like real childish, immature behavior. Cause cause what they're doing is they're, they're asking you to have all the skin in the game and they're just going to sit on the sidelines and holler at you. I thought the same thing. I don't, I don't really know what their plan was. Yeah. Is this out of character for them? Like, were you shocked by this?

Or is this like, yeah, yeah, I can see mom and dad doing this. I already knew that they didn't want me living there after I was 18. They said they would help me out a little bit before. It was definitely out of character for them to like, once they kind of like said like, my mom said I could keep the car.

My dad was very against keeping the car after that. But- Were you being a jerk, dude? Were you being an 18 year old, just like a turd? Or are you being kind and thoughtful? I will admit for like the first like 30 minutes talking about that, I was very kind and peaceful. And then I started to, I was not as nice,

but I should have been to them. All right, yeah, I spent my whole career working with 18 year olds. Go tell your parents you're sorry. All right. Go be a respectful 18 year old son and say, hey, I got fired up and I acted like a kid and I'm sorry. I do not want to go into debt for college and I respect your, I respect you want your

kids. You want to be able to tell your friends that your kid graduated from this college and I get that you don't, you don't like this. Don't say that. That's disrespectful, isn't it? I know. That was me just having a little bit of a mommy dig. But like, like she wants to be able to go to bridge club and tell like, well, my kid is,

Rachel, we used to call it, we used to call it the, uh, we used to call it the soccer mom scholarship. I worked at one university. We would lose students. Um, we would give somebody a half scholarship. I'm sorry. Our, the tuition was, I'm making up a number 20 grand. And they would go to another school that costs 50 grand, but they got a $1,000 JV soccer scholarship and we would lose them, which is a right. It's a, it's a $30,000 a year move, $120,000 move to play JV soccer. So that, so that parents could be like, oh, my, my kids

playing on a soccer scholarship. Right. It costs them money, like six figures, right? It's a thousand dollars. But I would tell your parents are sorry. And then you have to make an 18 year old decision. Yeah. And Torrin, let me say this too. Uh, and John's the education nerd. He loves education. So he can maybe back me up on this. Um, just, just for perspective. So you're in Boston and I, we have friends that came from that area and the way even the, uh, the Northeast, I would say even

specifically, the way they view education, there is a high- Premium. High regard. Like it is everything. When we come to the South, it's important. Say it, Rachel. It's important, but it's not life. Like there's a belief of like you can scratch and claw and start a business and be as successful

as the guy that has the college degree. Whether you go to college or not, there's kind of a micro, like just kind of get in there and you figure it out and you can still be successful, but it doesn't have this air about it, which I'm not saying all New England's have that, but I do think as an 18 year old that's growing up in that environment, I mean you're in Boston, so just know there's a world outside of that, not that we have it right necessarily, I'm not saying that, but you can be successful. You can meet people and network outside of a college.

There are ways to live life that is not one path of just it has to be this prestigious education. If you don't get this, it's gonna look bad on resumes, you're never gonna get a job, you're gonna be homeless, and you're gonna die. That's not the route, that's not right. So just know there is more to life outside of possibly the bubble in which education is talked about in your family. And for whatever it's worth, dude.

But John loves it, so just maybe he'll talk. I love it, but I've got a, I think one of the most mission-minded institutions in the United States can be found inside of community colleges. And for whatever it's worth, my mom, Dr. Deloney, the first Dr. Deloney was my mother who graduated in her 50s with her PhD, started at a community college as a tenured full professor, right? So here's what you can do

with a community college education, anything you want to. Period. Maybe you have to work harder to get job number one, fine. But by the way you're gonna transfer out right? You'll go to a state school or to a private school, wherever you end up on a transfer out. Yeah there's a program called mass transfer and it guarantees acceptance as well as some other scholarships as long as you maintain a certain grade point average in a community college. Yeah, that's good.

And you're right on, bro. And you know, and for fun too, Torrin, like just run some numbers on the ROI of the private college that you'd go into debt for, average interest rate on a student loan, how long that would probably take you to pay off if you got out of school with an average, maybe an above average salary, let's say. Run those numbers out, having to repay that starting in a financial hole significantly six figures probably for this school versus getting through it debt-free, doing the free community college, working, saving up,

graduating from state school, starting off and starting to invest the moment you get your first paycheck because you're gonna have money and not be in a hole financially from the math perspective who comes out ahead. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. So it's just interesting. Especially getting started. All right. And for everybody listening.

Good for you, Torrin. I'm proud of you for thinking outside the box, but be nice to your parents. Yeah, be respectful. Treat your parents with dignity. And for everybody, I love private schools. I've worked at multiple private schools. I would love for my kids, like, I love private schools.

I just don't like parents lobbing grenades at their kids and saying, hey, to prop us up, you go do this thing that's gonna cost you 10, 20 years of your life for making us feel good. I don't like that. I have high standards, I don't cut corners, and I only recommend the best. That's why I partnered with Simply Safe Home Security

for over 10 years. They're the industry leader. SimpliSafe has been named best home security system by US News and World Report for five years straight. They've also been ranked number one in customer service among home security providers by both Newsweek and USA Today, and they're the innovators in the technology too. Their active guard outdoor protection can help prevent break-ins before they happen, and Simply Safe agents can see and speak to potential intruders to help stop trouble before it even makes it to your door. And the best part is protecting your loved

ones with Simply Safe won't break the bank. Monitoring starts at around a dollar a day. Your first month is free and they offer a 60-day money back guarantee. Plus right now you'll get 50% off a new SimplySafe system with professional monitoring. So head to simply safe direct dot com to save 50%. That's simply safe direct.com. There's no safe like simply safe. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. We're going to Chris in Dallas, Texas. Hey, Chris, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you guys? We're doing great. How can we help? Um, so my girlfriend of just over a year now moved in about five months ago from her grandmother's who has, you know, supported her. For context, I'm 26 and she's about to

be 25. I do have a career at the moment and currently pay all the bills and it's kind of become a weight on me that she isn't really contributing. Because she doesn't have a job. Well she works part time. Back in February she started a certification course to be a farm tech. And since then she discovered that the certification alone doesn't get her very much in the job market. So she's working on the test, but it's, you know, kind of slow going. So what did she say when you sat down and talked to her about this?

She just, she just isn't motivated. I mean, it's not something that she feels that she needs to do or has to do. And I'm having trouble with that. That's fair. So yeah. There's another adult in the relationship that's not right. Both of you are correct right now. She doesn't have to do anything

because she gets to play house with you and you pay all the bills. She gets to live an imaginary life together. You know, we jumped the gun on that. I do agree, but the situation did also call for it. Her grandmother had the downsides and she was on social security. Well, I mean, it is what it is, but-

I did take that upon myself, but- No, no, no, no, I mean, I'm just saying, I'm not trying to be judgy. I'm just saying she's got a cush situation. And so she's right to say, I don't have to, because she doesn't. You're still, you're not gonna kick her out. I lived with my mother a couple years ago,

but I decided I wanted more for myself. That's right. So Chris, does this change from a relationship standpoint? That's the problem. Yeah, and this is, I mean, call me old school. This is where the complication happens when you act like you're married and you're not, right? And you're moving in together, right?

And all of it, like like this is what ends up happening that it's not as easy as like, oh, I found this kind of thing about my girlfriend. And this may be a deal breaker, but I need to figure it out on a couple more hangouts. And now I'm gonna call it quits. Now it's much harder to call it quits when she's living there, right?

So this is part of that complication. So does it give you, as the kids would call it, a beige flag or a red flag when it comes to her work ethic and who she is? Are you starting to see other parts of her that concern you for a long-term relationship? Well, the thing is I see myself in her from a few years ago. So I was in the same situation with my mom, but I had that realization. Unfortunately, I don't know how to come, how to help her come to that point.

So as two old married people will tell you, you can't. You can't. And that was thousands of dollars of therapy that you just cut that high-fifth of yourself through. The earlier and quicker you can realize you can't make somebody that you love and care about come to any sort of realization. And you can't think, oh, if I can just have the right phrase, the light bulb will come on.

If I can just have that right, that right sit down, she'll see it if I just say it the right way. Or I want something. I wanted something more for my life and now look at me. That's not how most of the world works Most people want to take the easiest path possible and she has that with you Right, but my guess is that beyond the money part like going back to what Rachel's thinking. This is an integrity issue This is a character issue. This is like, oh my gosh, this is gonna show up with kids. This is gonna show up with

When one of when my mom for holidays, I mean, all of it. It's like, yeah, it's always going to be a thing that she didn't want to do it. She's just not going to. And we're seeing that in real time. She doesn't want more for her life. And that's hard to stop. Chris, we're not talking about that. We're saying, oh, my gosh, she has to like go be this like boss, babe,

and go make six figures. No, no, no, no. She just needs to like pay bills. Well, even deeper than that. Right. Y'all had an agreement. That like forget the working part like y'all made an agreement. Yeah that's true yeah. Here's who we're gonna move in together and here's who we're gonna be in five or six months in she's like yeah I'm not doing that.

Were the expectations Chris pretty clear moving in or if she was on would she say, no, that's not what we talked about? What would she say? Um, I mean, I had. Explained that I would take care of her until she got her stuff together. But so the, you know, the agreement was that she would. Um, but now at this point, you know, she's, she moved in at her friends temporarily and she thinks that that's the better option. But I don't see that as the case.

You said she moved in with her friends? We need to figure out how how to. I'm sorry. She moved in with her friends? Right. And her friend has all her bills paid by her parents. So she's moved out. Oh, so she's not. Oh, y'all aren't living together anymore. As of a few days ago. Oh, wow, Chris.

Did you kick her out? What happened? No, just I confronted her about it again. And she got mad and left. Okay. Oh, wow. So is this over? Chris, you've made a lot of more moves than I was thinking. Good for you. Well, now I'm, you know, wondering

about my losses or which that's not up to y'all, but. Yeah, here's the thing. I want you to have a little bit of time just with Chris. Right. And I want you to actually sit down and be honest with yourself. And it's gonna be tough because you're emotional. You feel the pain, you love this person, you care about this person. You had, here's the hardest part,

you had plans with this person, right? You started creating pictures for tomorrow and this person was in those pictures and then it was revealed this person doesn't want that same life that you want. And then this person just bailed on you when you said, hey, I wanna sit down and have this conversation. And so just because something hurts doesn't mean it's not the right move. But I want you to be honest with yourself. And by the way,

me and my wife broke up three or four, I don't know, five times when we were dating. So that doesn't mean it's over either. But yeah, she has popped out before, you know, she just, she gets scared of her emotions, I think. And, you know, she just she gets scared of her emotions I think. I think the deeper question is what's this life we're building together, what's it gonna look like, and is she a kind of person you want to build a life with? And I think you having the courage to be honest and say, so far no, because when the going gets hard you kind of just don't want to do anything. And she might say, I want someone that's just going to take care of me and do whatever I want, whenever I want it.

And I want to be a princess. And you can say, amazing. I, it's not going to be my, I don't want to ride or die like that. And you get to choose, you both get to choose that. Right. Right. And that, that may mean that both of you end up heartbroken for a season. Yeah, sounds like that's it.

But I hate it for you. Well, that's okay. Can I tell you, it's most people wouldn't have the courage to do what you did. To sit down and say, hey, here's what we agreed on, here's what I want, are you still in? And she said, no. Most people go ahead and go ahead and get married and they figure this out in your five or six or seven with two kids when they're just, they've had enough. Yeah. But that doesn't make your pain today feel any better. I'm sorry, man. I hate it for you. That's all right. I appreciate your time. Can I give you one homework assignment?

Sure. How old are you again? 26, you say? Sure. How old are you again? 26 you say? 26. Right. I want you tonight by yourself. No alcohol, nothing. I want you to write a letter to 30 year old Chris. Okay? Okay. And I want you to tell him the things that you started to do today so that he could have the life he had when he was 30. And if she's in that picture then go call her tomorrow. But I want you to be clear about what you want your house to feel like, the partnership you have with a romantic partner. I want you like financially, what is this thing going to look like when you're 30?

And what must be true today so you can begin taking those steps? You're just going to reverse engineer it, but I want you to write a letter to yourself. Okay, put it in a drawer somewhere and open it when you're 30. But it's a way to get your head out of this immediate pain and this immediate motion and get your head back up on the horizon and say, okay, what needs to be true for tomorrow? Okay? Okay. I'll give that a try.

All right. Appreciate you, man. Thanks, Chris. Best of luck to you. Yeah. And always remember when you're setting a very reasonable Boundary or expectation for someone you're not being cruel Like this is this is the world and we have to pay bills. We have to do things, right?

So you're not asking this like insane requests, right? I mean, this is this is pretty basic stuff Chris. So I don't want you to feel like the bad guy in it I mean, seriously, it's I don't know, it's pretty basic, but I'm proud of you and like really encourage that you had the courage to set that boundary in a hopefully a very kind way, which I think you did. You seem like a great guy. So I'm sorry, Chris, but glad you called in. Hope we could help. As an investor and a person of faith, when your mutual funds and ETFs put your money into the dark side, you might feel a disturbance. Well, good news, Timothy Plan offers investments for people who want to be intentional about where their money goes.

As the pioneering force in biblically responsible investing, Timothy Plan entered the investment space to offer clean alternatives to secular funds that invest in stuff you'd never willingly expose your family to. And for more than 30 years, Timothy Plan has offered mutual funds and ETFs that won't contradict your values or sabotage your faith. So if you're serious about investing with a clear conscience, Timothy Plan could be just what you're searching for. Contact your financial advisor today to see if Timothy Plan is right for you.

Or visit TimothyPlan.com for more information. Investing includes risk, including possible loss of principal. Before investing, carefully consider a fund's investment objective, risks, charges, and expenses contained in the prospectus available at timothyplan.com. Read carefully before investing. Mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners LTD and ETFs distributed by Four Side Fund Services LLC. at other stores. It's great quality and big savings on everything you need with no gimmicks, no membership fees, or coupons required. See for yourself how Aldi is saving Americans across the country $8.3 billion a year. So stop paying more and start shopping at Aldi, where they have the lowest prices

of any national grocery store. Find a store near you today at aldi.us. That's aldi.us. This is The Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225. Hey, listen, if you are concerned about the economy and you just see your neighbor pulling into your nice middle-class neighborhood in a car that you like, how do you, how are you affording that? Why would you, why? And you just wish people around you had the wisdom of this show. For no money, you don't have to, you don't have to send any money, you know, all you have to do is like or subscribe the show.

It puts the show up into the algorithms and it kicks it into the feeds of your neighbors, into their podcast feeds, into their YouTube feeds. It just sends the show everywhere. And the more people who subscribe and like, and I know it's a pain in the butt and I know sometimes you have to log in, it's worth it for everybody.

It puts the show in front of more people. And so for everybody, it just doesn't cost anything to help out your neighbor. And share the podcast, though, too. I mean, I get my crime podcasts that I listen to from friends even here at the office. We'll send each other podcasts that we love. So if you love it, just sit down. Or if there's an episode you think, my mom needs to hear this send it to her right or a buddy that yeah this marriage sounds like yours send it to him be

careful be careful with that but yeah hey let's go out to Honolulu and talk to the MAX what's up Max hey how you doing thank you for taking my call you bet how's Hawaii Max? It's nice it's nice. You bet. How's Hawaii, Max? It's nice. It's nice. It sounds wonderful. You're not Max Holloway, are you? One of my heroes? No.

All right. What's up? All right. I was calling because something happened where my brother kind of holds a lot of anger towards me because he got fired from his job and I had to take it over. And I'm getting ready to move out now and I'm worried it's going to cause like more family disconnect. So I'm just trying to get some help like navigating the situation. Is it a family business? It's like a financial and family thing. I mean, the business, no, it's somebody we know that he worked for. What is it?

What kind of job? What kind of business is it? It's a pool cleaning job. I take home about 50 years, so it's pretty good. 50 a year? And why did he get fired? He had gone on a trip for an extended leave and I was covering it for him and the boss at the end of it decided to fire him and offered me the job.

Oh man. So you did a better job? Oh, it was just like he didn't like break a rule. You just out cleaned the pools and the boss was like, I kind of want you instead. There were some issues with him and that was a part of it. I wasn't sure if my brother would even be let back after anyways, but yeah. So what is his beef with you that you weren't ride or die like, yeah, forget these guys. Is that the beef? I think what happened was he's just feeling like he lost out on a good opportunity.

He did. He wasn't a good worker. He wants somebody to blame for it and it's me. He wants to blame me for it instead of himself. Alright. I'm okay with that. The main issue is the money from the job helps financially support my family. I come from a single mom household and I'm 19. I'm trying to move out and be on my own, which would mean that I wouldn't have the same amount of money from my mom anymore and I'm worried that's going to create even more of a family

disconnect. So I don't really know what to do. What's your mom do? She's a cleaner. She works like two jobs cleaning. Okay. How much does she make? I'm not sure exactly.

I think I went over it with her one time. Okay. How much difference does she need? Does she like how much are you covering the bills in the house? I'm contributing about it was about $1,500 who I was paying off some debt on the water bill and then now it's like To about 1300 I pay some of rent I buy all of our food and I cover the the water Is she does she have other struggles max? I cover the water. Does she have other struggles, Max? No, I mean, I think... Like with addiction or with mental health challenges? No, I don't.

Sorry, what was that? I'm asking, does she have... Not with addiction or mental health. Okay, so why have you become the caretaker of your, of your, of your mom? I think it's just, it's really expensive here and it's hard to afford to live out here if you aren't making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Exactly. And I have to, the main thing is that I, my mom, I think she'd be fine on her own, but I have two younger sisters

and that's where I feel weirdly, I feel like I'm abandoning them. How old are they? They're 11. They turned 11 yesterday. Is it at a point where you need to sit down with your mom and have a hard conversation about the financial realities? So I have about six months ago and I've been keeping up. I told her six months ago I plan on moving out of March. Okay. And she hasn't really done any much action towards like figuring out another situation. So I don't know like if I should just

stay and keep helping so that we can stay, they can stay in their house or if I should just go on and you know put my oxygen mask on before there's you know. I just feel like Max that I mean you've put yourself in a caretakers role at 19 you know what I mean? Yeah. For and it's and it's heroic right in one sense I mean you've really stepped up and helped your mom but this will be your whole life unless something else changes. And I feel like that's unfair to you in your life, in your future family, to feel like you have to be the one to carry this burden. And I understand obviously why that is, but long-term, I just don't think it's fair for

you to play this role. Yeah, I think I've come to a similar conclusion. I just feel like I'm, I'm like, sure. What? Yeah. What do you do? Is your mom like lose the house with your two little sisters? Right? Yeah. And then it's like, where do they go? We have family here and I'm sure they could move in with my grandparents or something. Hold on, hold on. Your mom also plays an integral part of this. If you told me, hey, my mom really struggles with addiction and my mom struggles with some mental or emotional health disorders, then I would tell you, like, man, life handed you a mess. And it's just, it might be a season, right? It may be that you're going to stay at home for a few years and see these

young girls until they get older, right? That's not the case. Your mom's making some choices on a daily basis as to where she's going to work and how much money she's going to make and what she's going to ask of her 19-year-old son. And so you're making decisions for an adult and that's not your job. Your job is, unfortunately, you've been cast in the role to make sure your 11 year old little sisters have food and water, which is never your job, but here we are, right? And so, man, you're a man of noble character. But I want you to hear what Rachel's saying. Five years from now, what would be better for you to have started pool cleaning and also gone to get a couple of community college classes on the side, and five years from now what would be better for you to have started pool cleaning and

also gone to get a couple of community college classes on the side and five years from now you've got an associate's degree and now you've got four employees of your own and you're making $200,000 or you're still making $50,000 this guy had to lay you off because business got slow and now you're making $35,000 in the same bedroom in the same house except you're 24 years old. Like if you think on a longer time horizon, what's the best thing you can do for your family? It might be to go spread your wings and fly.

I think so too. I think I just needed some like, I didn't even know if I was crazy or leaving it. No, you're not crazy. You're gonna feel guilty. Because it sounds unkind, right? Yeah, it sounds unkind. You're gonna feel guilty. Yeah, like it sounds like, oh my gosh,

I'm abandoning my family. But what I wanna relieve you of is that was never supposed to be your role. And like John said, if there was like a dire situation of something, that's another conversation. But yeah, I mean, like it's a grownup problem that your mom who has two daughters at home

should be the one calling the show and saying, I can't pay my bills, what can I do? And looking at her budget and all of that. And I think you can help guide that Max, but you can't even change the way she handles money either because you don't have that ability. We don't have the ability to change people. Here's where I think you can get some peace in this transaction.

Number one, you're going to feel guilty. Just know that's coming. You may have heard me say this on the show. Choose guilt over resentment every time. If you just stay there and wither, you're going to resent your mom and that's not fair to her. So choose guilt. The second thing is come up with a number and sit down and tell your mom, that's not fair to her. So choose guilt. The second thing is come up with a number

and sit down and tell your mom for six months I'm going to send a thousand dollars home. I'm going to send seven hundred and fifty dollars home and make sure that everybody's clear on when this money is coming and give her a ramp. You'll sleep a little better at night I think and it's going to be not just a cut off but it will be a peaceful departure. I'm sorry my brother let us know if we can help. You know one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all.

Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance usually 10 to 12 times your income which is the smartest most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you

the best options and they've been around for over 95 years. So you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal. And that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. The question of the day comes from YRefi.

The Ramsey Show, this is one of our new sponsors which we we love because if you are in default with private student loans you need to contact YRefi and obviously we don't encourage letting your loans go into default. We teach responsibility, but these amounts have some of you struggling and there is a way forward. So YREFI was created for people in your situation. So go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Justin in Virginia. Justin writes,

How can I stop being jealous of how much my siblings and in-laws earn? My wife and I have no debt and a really good household income. We're happy in our careers. We're not missing out on anything due to how much we earn. I just can't figure out how to not be so triggered and frustrated by other people's income." Wow. That's a very self-aware question. Very interesting, yes. What do you think, Rachel? Gosh, and I'm curious how he, I wonder if he knows the actual number of the income or if he is making up a story in his head that they're making it telling because of how they're living.

Because lifestyle and income are obviously two different things. So I'd be curious on that. What's causing you to think that they're earning more? Is it because of how they live their life? And kind of the sucky part is when you live your life responsibly for a season, it's not gonna look flashy.

Eventually you'll start to build wealth and you can enjoy it. But there is kind of that season of grounding, which is where you guys are. But if you know the number and you're like, oh, no, they make half a million or whatever crazy a year. I mean, I have learned, John, when moments like that come up for me, and it's not income necessarily, it could be, but I don't hear people's income a lot, but a situation that they're experiencing something that I wanna experience,

as much as I can muster up just celebrating them, it's amazing how that fades quickly where the eyes are off of me, my eyes are off of me, and you can just be excited for somebody, right, genuinely. And it doesn't always come easy, I don't think, but when you can just be happy for them and hopefully maybe they're in a great career that's helping other people or something, I don't know that you can find like the silver lining and what they're doing and being excited. But the fact that you're being triggered constantly, I'm wondering, you know, your level of contentment

is obviously not fully baked, right? Yeah, I have found that I always want to pull the string that's attached to that story. And somewhere in Justin's heart and mind, the dollar amount that you earn every year is attached to value, how much you're worth. Yep. Yep. And somebody told you that somewhere and I found it helpful to get to the like, where did that story come from? Oh

Dad used to tell older brother How great he was because he made six dollars an hour. I only made five dollars like whatever that story is Yeah, but the other thing is I think you're right. I think Justin would be pretty cool To out of the blue, right your siblings a letter and just say I see you know, i'm so proud of you I see how hard you're working and I see what an amazing and instead of when you feel that jealousy our tendency is to pull away instead of go towards that person to celebrate them and our bodies have a way of adjusting for that proximity like we're in support and it just over time realizes I don't have we're not in support and it just over time realizes,

oh, we're not in competition and I don't have to fight you. I have a great life. One other quick thing, often when you are creating a life, I'll say it like this, that is less alive. When you are in a, we go to work, we make this much money, we have this couch, we have this house, we have this car, we were supposed to be happy here. It's easy to put your eyes up and start looking for what other people have that you don't. And it often, over the course of my life, when I found myself jealous in

certain places, it has often brought me and my wife back to the table to say, what life are we creating for ourselves and where do we find excitement and aliveness and adventure and joy in our home? Because it's not, I'm starting to look for other places. Yes. Right. And it almost always comes back to we've become co-managers of our house. Such a great, that's a good point. And so.

The stagnant, like being stagnant in life. And I think we've gone through a season of that. You look up and you're like, oh my gosh, we've just been doing the same thing and there's not as much laughter or joy or levity. That's right. But when you say, no, we're putting the funds away, we're doing family game night

and we're gonna do this stupid game that's so silly, but everyone ends up laughing. You just do these things and they don't have to be expensive. Gosh, it was last break before the summer though, I think it was spring. And we took all the kids, we went to a local high school, like parking lot, ran away with bikes. And they still talk about it. Like, do you remember we were bikes in a parking lot? You're right bikes all the

time. But it was like this like, I don't know, so like, it was so small and insignificant. But to them, right, it brought this like other magic of like this new place or whatever it was for them. But it's those things. And again, it doesn't have to cost money. You don't have to go travel to Europe to do that. Like find find it in your home because, gosh, we need it. All of us. Right. Especially this time of year, the election season and everything. We're just like, oh, my gosh, give me some levity and enjoyment with the people that you love. But it's recognizing levity and joy.

For 99 percent of us is a choice. Yeah. There are people in abusive situations, yes. There are people who are in deep poverty, yes. There are people who are abjectly on the margins, yes. But for most of us, we go home and we look at our spouse and we choose what happens next. We choose how we respond.

We choose our frustration. We choose to not pick up the trash, not put our clothes away, we choose to just watch TV, just sit there on our phones, all of those are choices. And that means we can choose something different. Yep. And so, Justin, I challenge you to sit down with your wife and y'all reimagine your life.

And you might end up in the exact same space, but the exercise of reimagining it, what adventures do we wanna create inside of our own home? Yeah, and for no money? What does it look like totally it can rearrange everything and write your siblings a letter a handwritten letter Tell us how freaking proud of them. You are so cool It's gonna swallow some pride to do that right when you're when you're in a state of or it opens your heart up And you realize but it's it that takes out okay I'm gonna I'm gonna celebrate something that up and you realize. It does, but that takes a, okay, I'm gonna celebrate something that is not always fun for me, right?

But you start to learn it, so good. All right, up next we have Dan in Eugene, Oregon. Hey Dan, welcome to the show. Hi Rachel, hi John, how are you? We're doing great, how are you? I'm, well. Oh, not great. I've had a rough number of years, I guess.

Um, my, my question, my question for you is how do I calculate when I can feasibly retire and, or when I can start to plan a second career and the, the rough years is, um, I'm about three years into being a widow, widower. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. I have three kids, two of them will go to college. I owe $3.80 on my house. And I sort of, as I was sort of looking at, as I don't know, I guess getting our lives

back in order over the last number of years, they, it's one of the Ramsey quotes of why don't they teach us stuff in school is of like, you know, how, how do you even calculate what, what is the right trajectory. And now that I'm doing it for a loan, one and two is for myself. It's a loan, I guess I should say, or as a single person. Sure. Yep, how old are you, Dan?

48. 48, okay. Hey Dan, before, Rachel's gonna walk you through the numbers of it, can I challenge you on something? Yeah. And this might be a harder exercise than the math problem. Sure. But I would love for you to spend some time

and unfortunately I don't know that you can do this with anybody other than just taking Dan out on a retreat. But I would love for you to figure out or ask yourself what do you want it to feel like when you walk in your front door at the age of 55? Yeah, that's good. Because I want you to ask yourself, what kind of life do you want to have at 55? Because that's going to determine the math problem.

Yeah, because I think when you get to the numbers really quick, Dan, we only have about 40 seconds, so I'm sorry for the short call. It's going to be looking at what do you have in retirement now, and then averaging out, you know, average returns 10 to 12 percent, whatever that looks like and knowing your lifestyle to John's point, how much is it going to take to run your household at retirements? And what is it going to look like to be able to, you know, you have to calculate inflation and all of that. Now, if you have not sat down with the SmartVest or Pro, I would do that.

You can go to RamseySolutions.com and find one in your area because I want to be able to see all of your numbers, everything that you have in retirement including this house and what's going to be the best bet to get you in a place. But again it's lifestyle, it's return on the market and inflation that goes up every year is kind of the determining factor. So thanks for the call. Thanks to everyone in the booth John. Thanks for a great hour. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, I'm Jade Warshaw and I wanna talk to you for a second about student loan refinancing.

Okay, if your payment and interest rate are burying you and you feel like you can't dig out, refinancing your student loan might make sense because a lower rate could help you free up more money in your budget and a shorter term could help you pay down your debt faster. So reach out to the student loan refinancing experts today at LaurelRoad.com slash Ramsey. There you'll find helpful resources like a student loan rate table, a refinancing calculator, and other tools.

Plus, you can get an initial rate in just a few minutes. Laurel Road offers low competitive rates, starting under 5%. You can even get your interest rate lower if you sign up for auto pay. If your situation is more complex though, sign up for a free 30-minute consultation with one of their student loan refinancing experts

to get your tough questions answered. Listen, not everybody should refinance their student loan. So make sure you run the numbers, but for some people it's the right move. Learn more at laurelroad.com slash Ramsey to find out more about their student loan refinancing. That's laurelroad.com slash Ramsey. ["The Road to Success"]

Live from Nashville, Tennessee, this is the Ramsey Show, where we talk about your money, your loves, your relationships, and your life. I'm John Delaney, joined by number one bestselling author, Rachel Cruz. We're taking your calls on just about everything. 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225 if you're joining us in the Ramsey Network app. Welcome, we are glad you are here. Let's go out to Detroit Rock City and talk to Ken. What's up, Ken? Hey, how are you guys doing? Dude, we're rocking on to the break of dawn, brother.

What's up? All right, I guess my question would be that um Here in detroit. Yeah, I have a pretty good income one income household family It's uh, three kids married and it just seems like living paycheck to paycheck can't seem to get ahead. Um It just kind of almost feel like we're struggling here when you say good income, I found on the show some people think that means a million bucks and some people think that means 40,000. What's a pretty good income? We're at about 275 to 300K a year with my income.

In Detroit, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We classify that as a pretty good or in the global sense on the top of the top of the top teeny tiny percent of one. Yeah. So you're crushing. That's great. So Ken, what's so you're saying that you feel like you guys are still living paycheck to paycheck even with this? Have you guys dug into any numbers? Do you know why that this is happening? Yeah, I'm pretty I try to stay up on the numbers and I and we got a lot of debt We got a lot of student debt. I went back to school for anesthesia. So I'm a nurse Okay, so I'm sitting on probably I'm at right about

181,000 in student loan debt still. Okay. What other debt is there? So we got that, we owe 200,000 on the house, 203,000 on the house. We at one point took out a 401k loan, which we still owe 45,000 on. I have a HELOC loan, another $17,000 on that and about $20,000 in credit cards.

What about cars? Cars, we have two leases. They were both three-year leases. One we still owe $13,000 on and the other one we owe $10,000. How much a month are you guys paying those leases? How much are the payments? One of the payments is $415 a month and the other one's about $460. About thousand bucks. Yeah.

All right. Rachel's going to walk you through this. Can I just, can I tell you something? I've spent a lot of my career sitting behind closed doors with medical professionals and can I tell you, you're not crazy? Is that cool? You're not nuts. Here's what you've done. You've done exactly what they told you to do. Yeah. Okay. Um, they gave you some, um, some, some quippy things like cars are depreciating assets. You never want to own them so just lease

them you're going to buy new ones anyway um you got to buy a house that looks like this because they can't take it away from you if you ever you know get in super trouble and hey if you can make this money but you got to go back to school of course you do and uh and it just keeps going and going and you look up and you make you, a little over a quarter million dollars a year and you can't breathe and it doesn't make any sense. So hear me say you're not nuts. Also hear me say you can get out of like the path out of this is not difficult. It'll be it'll suck, but it's not hard. But it's going to take two years of you deciding to live a radically different life for just 24 months or so, maybe 36 months, but I think 24 months given you can work extra shifts and do I think you can

clean this up and set an entirely new trajectory for your home? Because what your home doesn't have right now, you've got everything in your house. You don't have any peace. Yeah. Is that fair? Yeah, no, that's, that's correct. Okay. If you, if you and your wife can settle on that being the goal, not the cars, not the house, if you settle on, I want to walk in from work and I want everyone to be happy that I'm here. I want to walk in from work with a smile on my face, not with my head slumped over.

It's going to take about 24 rough months and you can get there. Yeah. Okay. I just know too many people who are, too many people in the medical profession who are dropping their kids off for college and they still have their own student loans. That's just madness, right?

It's madness. Those are my friends, by the way, bro. Like it just is. So you're not crazy. All right. Yeah, and Kenan, I think y'all's situation too, it is the perfect picture of just like this lifestyle creep, right?

I'm like, you're just, you just just a little bit here, a little bit there, out of car, go on vacation, go out to eat, like we're just making good money because you're bringing home probably what 28,000 a month or so? Yeah, I mean and it depends too because I can, I mean that's with a little bit of overtime but yeah, but it's consistent. Right, sure, yeah, but you look at that, just your monthly take home and you're like, man, you know what I mean, like there's a lot you can do with it, but also, like John's saying, the normalization of like, yeah, but we could spend that.

I mean, you know, it's the classic idea that your income is not the issue for most people. It is your money habits and the way that you handle your money. And so that magnification is exactly what you guys are experiencing. So it's like, yeah, we'll get two nice cars, we'll do this. We'll get a little bit more debt. And it's just payment, payment, payment, payment, payment, payment. So a lot of this income is going

to these payments. So clearing all of it up, I think is key. And I think you and your wife sitting down just as an experiment and just say, what if we made a hundred grand, which again is above the average household income that is 80 grand. Nobody's starving. So even a fun, even more of a fun exercise, just put 80 grand and say, okay, if we brought in 80 grand a year, what it comes out to per month,

how can we live on that? Like live on that. And then extra from that of what you actually bring in is gonna be thrown with the debt or whatever it looks like. But just, you know, I think it's always a fun experiment for married couples to sit down and do this, like play the income game and just see how much can we actually, if we had to do this, how much, what would our life look like if we had to live on 60 grand

a year, on 50 grand a year, on 70 grand a year? And then the great thing about you, Ken, is that's not what you guys are making. So the margin is there. It's just the choice of lifestyle. And so getting your lifestyle wrapped and under control is gonna be number one. And it is going to feel like a shock because it's not gonna be going out to eat.

It's gonna be shopping at Aldi, not Whole Foods. It's gonna be, I mean, you're gonna be living, right? Like you're making 70 to 80. And that's how you're going to clean it up. You're not going to clean it up by just kind of here and there. And we'll just, we'll kind of do it, but we're still going to go, we're going to still go on vacation. We're still going to go out to the nice, you know, date nights that we want and drop 200 bucks. Like you can't do that.

Like if you're going to do this, you have to radically do it. And so you and your wife sitting down and saying, okay, here's our budget for the next two years and mapping that out and mapping out your lifestyle. And then from there, starting to pay off these debts, smallest to largest. And what's wild again about that income coming in, I'm like, you guys could clean up the HELOC

in two to three months. You could clean up all the credit card debt in two to three months. I mean, like you can make a lot of really big progress, Ken, if you guys decide to do it. And then the hope on the other end, we always talk about you live like no one else. It's not gonna be fun, but you guys can do this.

Even the big mountain of the $180,000 student loan, you know, you can get it cleaned up. And if you live like no one else, later you're bringing in 30, you know, 30 grand a month. With no payments! You can do whatever you want. Yeah, you can do whatever you want. Now you get to do whatever you want. But I would see, you know, 30 grand a month. You can do whatever you want. With no payments. Yeah, you can do whatever you want. Now you get to do whatever you want.

But I would see, you know, talk to the car company and look at your leases. Leases are always a little bit more confusing of the buyout and everything. But if you can get out of those, I mean, just do what you can to dwindle down this debt, like as fast as possible, Ken. And you guys will see the progress. It's just going to be up to you all if you want to really do this. But the math is there. It's going to work. Math is easy. And you're going to take every shift.'s just gonna be up to you all if you wanna really do this. But the math is there. It's gonna work.

Math is easy. And you're gonna take every shift, you're gonna miss little league games, you're gonna do whatever it takes for 24 months. And make a crap ton of money and pay this off. And y'all are free forever. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here.

All right, I'm about to say what everyone already knows, but budgeting is a good thing to do. Now actually starting, well that's where people freeze up. And you guys, it doesn't have to be that way. With the Every Dollar Budgeting app, getting started is super easy and so is sticking to it. You can set up your first budget in less time than it takes to go through the Chick-fil-A drive-through.

It's fast. And the best part, with unlimited budget categories, you can customize it to fit your life. Grocery runs, coffee runs, or planning your next family trip. Whatever you have going on, every dollar helps you see exactly what's happening with your money. You'll know what's coming in, what's going out, and what's left over for some fun. Because let's be real, you need some fun in your budget. Every dollar keeps budgeting simple and stress free, just the way you want it.

So go download the app for free and get started today. Again, go download every dollar today. All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah. I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit,

which means that the members, the customers, own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing. And what's more important than that, though though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union.

So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values.

And they've done a really, really good job with customer service. with the heart to help the customer. and we got an account. I so, so appreciate that. Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs. Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe.

You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Home ownership is something that we believe should be part of your financial plan, but it's really hard these days.

The price of houses and the housing market It is absolutely insane But when you do it the right way when you buy a home the right way that it brings you peace It's not a burden. It is a blessing and so if you are looking to sell your home or Purchase a home the right way the way we teach you want to make sure to check out Some top agents in your area that we trust.

These are Ramsey trusted agents. They have years of experience that will help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, marketing, and making or choosing the right offer for your home. So to find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free, go to ramsysolutions.com slash agents and check them out. Alright up next we have Scott in Pittsburgh. Hey Scott, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for taking my call. Absolutely, how can we help? Yeah,

I've loaned $80,000 to my cousin for his house flipping business through multiple notarized promissory notes over the last four years. I received that $80,000 back, but none of the $45,000 in interest. My cousin recently informed me that his business is in trouble. He lives four hours away, has four kids, a rocky marriage and other debt. So he's not rich to say the least. He now won't return any of my calls or texts. And I sought some legal counsel and all of the notes have a confession of judgment clause. So legally we're good even to knock out a court to get a judgment. So that's in my favor.

That side of the family has a lot of crazy in it to the extent that one individual is a little crazy, a little dangerous to be around. Personally my wife and I are in baby step seven. We have four kids, two high stress jobs, and extremely active social life in our church. So part of me says, just let this go and go focus on your life. But another part of me says,

go get the money that you've earned in interest, especially since he won't call you back. I feel like I've let my wife down on this decision, even though we haven't really lost any money. So I'm just wondering what path should I go down and how do I emotionally accept that path? One time, well, I won't tell that story. That's a personal story.

Scott, walk away. Walk away. And I think the making peace is making peace with yourself because you knew this was a real possibility before you did this. And you tried to cover yourself with a bunch of legal paperwork and you had a family member that you probably kind of deep down knew was going to do this, looked at you and said, I'm not doing that. And I don't think you let anybody down. I think it's a story you're telling yourself to kind of cover over knew was gonna do this looked at you and said I'm not doing that. And I don't think you let anybody down and then gets a story you're telling yourself to kind of

cover over the fact that you kind of feel like you got what you knew was probably gonna happen. And so I'd make peace with it. Don't ever loan family members money again. And let's go on about our life. All right. Thank you. I mean, does that does that feel right? It does. It's kind of I mean, does that, does that feel right? It does. It's kind of where I thought I was, but the whole, like just not calling and texting back after like a four year relationship where we had a great back and forth and you know, money was exchanged both ways and, um, things felt very comfortable. And then, you know, all of a sudden it was just like, okay, it's, it's gone.

And that means you're going to try to go get your interest because you're mad. Don't do that. Yeah. Don't do that. Yeah. And it's one of those things, not to say told you so, but we always tell people even if you got it and even if you're close, don't borrow money because it changes the relationship. And now there's something wedged between you and it's shame.

And it's really hard to overcome. And so even if you send them a handwritten letter that just say your debt's forgiven, I wish you the best, and go on about your life. Yeah. And the story I'm playing in my head, Scott, I could be wrong, is he's probably panicking, right? I mean he has four kids. His life is falling apart. Yeah, I mean he's fearful. I mean his fear, you know, radar is up all the way and He's fearful. I mean, his fear radar is up all the way and he probably can't even emotionally and the fact, you know, go there, the fact that you're family too, that adds a whole other dynamic.

Or the one guy he went to for help, he can't even do that anymore because there's 45,000 bucks between the two of you. Yeah, and I know there's probably some justice in you, Scott, even the way you laid out the question. No, you're mad. Yeah, I can tell. I can tell that you're, yeah, you're pissed. You're mad. Yeah, I can tell that you're yeah, you're pissed. You're like, man, this is this isn't fair, right? Fair would be I'm owed this money. And why am I not getting it? Right.

But but I think John's right. I think there is a kind of a humble pill to swallow to say, okay, I'm going to I want to move about my move along with my life because you can write financially speaking You guys are on baby step seven. You are you're fine. Is this the quote-unquote like Justice play it's not the justice play would be to take him to court and continue to ring out You know the money that he doesn't have and take his family through I mean, you know, and you could but you would definitely for sure You know lose that relationship and in the end, I don't know if that's worth $45,000 of your time and your energy and your mental capacity.

Yeah, agreed. I would say we didn't have a whole lot of relationship even, you know, even before that. Considering like we were just four hours away, not, you know, a strong relationship. But it's it's just a strange situation, um, because of how, how great things were going for four years and even, um, talking together about projects that he was working on and, um,

and then it's just like all gone. Do you know what happened to his business? I'm just curious if, if he just did bad deals or what? Same story that Dave always talks to you, right? He had a partner, the partner skipped town, the whole business was on him and he couldn't, he couldn't keep the whole business afloat. So, you know, went from being very profitable

over four years to, you know, taking a step back over the last like 18 months or so. Yeah. Yeah, send him a letter that just says, hey brother, you're freed. Turn off the promissory notes and I wish you the best. All right. Thank you. And I think, I think you'll feel a weight off your shoulders.

And by the way, next time you'll, you'll feel, you'll feel that sense of injustice and it's right. So you're not crazy. There's nothing wrong with you, whatever. Like you'll get that little angry moments every now and then, but you got your money back, count your blessings. Yeah. And yeah, let's walk away. So sorry. All right, John, I'm going to take a question from the Ramsey Network app. Those of you that are listening, and this question is, one, again, when you do this, you don't have to call in. You just click the link in the show notes

and download the app for free, which you guys have done because you're listening there. But this question is, I determined my why statement is to help people heal so that they can be free. And this has become a motivation for a career change to become a mental health counselor. That would mean adding $40,000 to my current undergrad debt of $40,000. So the original was $110,000. So the original was $110,000. What is your recommendation for funding a master's in mental health counseling? Oh my. Are mental health professionals sitting to my right? Yeah. I guess they'll teach you in counseling, one of the core tenets is you can't give what

you don't have. So if your, if your heart is to help people heal so that they may be free, and in order to do that you chain yourself to a student loan company for another five or ten or fifteen years, you're going to end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. And so I'm going to tell you, You're gonna end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. And so I'm gonna tell you you can help people heal In your job as a school teacher. You can help people heal in your job as a I'll tell you this I got to my hotel last night. I was in Pittsburgh I got to my hotel really really late and the woman checking us in Was a saint just one of those people that you're around and your heart rate just goes down and she was so kind. And she was a gift.

She was a cup of cold water in the desert. It was after just a long, long day. And so you can help people heal on the job site when y'all are poor and concrete. So this idea that you have to be a licensed mental health professional and you have to go into $40,000 of student loan debt on top of the 40 already have out there that's just unwise and I had I had a

Graduate advisor that says if you are sitting in a clinical chair And you don't know how you're gonna pay your bills You cannot sit across from somebody and say I can help you because you're not whole interesting across from somebody and say, I can help you because you're not whole. Interesting. So what does that mean? That means get this 40 grand paid off as soon as possible. See if you can find some side work working in or around counseling offices or social work offices or in children's homes or in boys ranches or things like that where you

can work with people. Make sure this is what you want to do and then get a job at a local university as a housing director or something and they will pay for your graduate degree. But don't add, don't double your debt load in order to do this one particular job when you can help people heal in a number of different capacities. I hate to admit this, but I don't always eat right. I know I need to eat more fruits and veggies, but sometimes I just have to pound some chips Because they taste so good. That's why I love my field of greens

It helps me eat healthy when I don't have much time and each fruit and vegetable in field of greens was doctor selected for a specific health benefit heart lungs kidney Metabolism even healthy weight and folks. I ain't getting any younger It's super easy to mix with water and here is the great part of it Lungs, kidney, metabolism, even healthy weight. And folks, I ain't getting any younger. It's super easy to mix with water. And here is the great part of it. I thought it might taste like grass, but it tastes great. And only Field of Greens makes this promise.

Your doctor will notice your improved health or your money back. So go to fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey for 20% off your first order. That's fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey to save 20% on your first order. Big news business owners. It's here. My brand new book, Build a Business You Love is officially available to start reading now. Look, running a business is tough. Some days it feels like you're just duct taping the whole thing together.

I get it. That's why I put 30 years of hard-earned lessons into this book to help you grow faster, make smarter decisions, and stop learning everything the hard way. Don't wing it. Get your copy at ramsysolutions.com slash store and start reading today. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Delaney joined by Rachel Cruz. Let's go out to Albany, New York and talk to Jessica. Hey Jessica, what's going on? Hi. How's it going?

So I'm calling because I have a whole life insurance policy that I've been holding on to since 2012. And now I'm thinking hearing Dave and you guys in hearing that the hole is garbage and that I should switch the term, but I'm not sure about the tax implications and stuff like that. I just don't really know what to do with the life insurance policy from here on out. Okay. Have you looked into what the payout will be when you, if you dissolve it? Um, so since the cash value is eight grand. Okay. And of your

money back to you. That drives me crazy. Yeah. And have you looked into term at all to make sure that you you I mean you're are you healthy Jessica like you could probably get another insurer. Okay. I'm going to be 39. I'm 39 now. I'm going to be 40 next year. So I'm kind of like, do I hold on to it? I have two little ones.

My husband's a primary beneficiary, but my oldest daughter is a contingent. And I'm like, do I hold on to this? I already called the company and asked them if I should, you know, if I could switch it from hold the term. And of course they said, no, you could cash it out and then get a term insurance policy with us. And I'm like, I don't know what the implications are or anything, or if it'd be worth it to do that.

Or if I should just hold on to, because it looks like it is, it's gotten me like $1,500 in the last year. Yeah, but it's your money. According to the statements that, right. So the way, yeah, they take your money, you overpay them, they invest that money, they take a piece of the investment return, and then they call you and they're like, look what you have. And it's a crappy return anyways. So yeah, so no, I would cancel it regardless of what the whatever the fees and tax

Implication is I don't know what taxes are when you cash it out. It may be income. It may be like I get like a Not very much money, yeah, so I would Dollars a month, so I've been ignoring it for all this time I'm listening to you guys. I'm like all right. I need to do something about this. Yeah, how much are you paying a month for it? 55 55 Yeah, I'm a state worker and make around 15 a year. So I wasn't really missing it, you know, yeah Bucks, okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, so what I would do

I don't want to be robbed slowly by the yeah, and that's why. Totally. And that's what it ends up being when you're pairing an investment and insurance together. You're always going to get a crappy product usually on both sides, but for sure on the investment side. So yeah, I would cancel it for sure today. But before, well, before you cancel it, I should say, make sure you have term in place because I do want you to have life insurance. You guys have two little kids. So I would still have life insurance.

And so you do work. Is that what you said outside the home? Yeah. Okay. So I would get a policy 10 to 12 times your annual income. And that's about that's around the policy that you would need. And I would go to Xander. You can go to Xander.com or give them a call Xander insurance. And they're great because they're a more they're they're an insurance broker. So they're going to shop all different companies to get you the best deal versus like this one you call I don't know State Farm and it's just a farm or whatever you know like you'll be able to get all different kinds of quotes and that's what I would do and then I would go ahead and apply and get that coverage going first and the

day that goes into place the pot the policy, then I would call Whole Life, cancel it, get your eight grand to move on. Gotcha, all right. And then, okay, so you said 10 to 12 months for my whole life insurance policy. 10 to 12 times your annual income. That's right, yeah. If you make 50 grand, yeah, I would get a policy at a minimum of 500 grand,

which should not cost you very much money a year. Okay. income. If you make 50 grand, yeah, I would get a policy at a minimum of 500 grand, which should not cost you very much money a year. Okay. It won't be a huge cost. And by the way, this isn't just us pitching a product. When I was 40, maybe 40 or 41, I did the exact thing you're doing. I called Xander and got my insurance moved over to them with Termin. It's fantastic. Gotcha. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. I just want to say also, God bless you guys and thank you for the work that you do. Oh, thank you so much. You're super kind. And yeah, like Rachel, I hear that a lot on like, what's the tax is going to be? It's a grand. Just pay the taxes and move on with your life. Right. For whatever it is. Yeah.

If you have $8 million, we'll just start worrying about the tax implications. Totally, yeah, yeah. When you start looking at $55 a month, and it may feel like, oh, that's no big deal, but over time, what it adds up, and then what you end up paying for term is a fraction of that anyways. And always, again, the rule of thumb is your insurance

and your investment should never be mixed, because you're not going to get the rate of return that you could if you put it, you know, even in an index fund or Vanguard or the market, right? Yeah, in any other place, you're gonna get a better rate of return. And a lot of these too, I'm like, they just, it's that slow leak that they just continue

just to like take and take, and if it goes up, it just goes up and you know what I mean? It doesn't feel clean, whole life. There's some entanglements there that are not great. There's mixed priorities there, right. Scott to Spokane, Washington and talk to Elizabeth. Hey Elizabeth, what's happening? Hey guys, how are you? Awesome. We're running a scam called a YouTube show and a podcast. What are you up to?

I love it. I watch you guys all the time. Very cool. What are you up to? I love it. I watch you guys all the time. Very cool. What's up? Not much. I was just hoping to get your guys' advice. We are pretty good, but we're not as good as we could be. I feel like we're still struggling months and months, like we're still struggling month to month, kind of like paycheck to paycheck. And how do we get ahead? How do we start like invest saving? Like we have three kids, I homeschooled, we're a one income household. And the economy is kind of killing us. Yeah. So here's the hard truth. So here's the hard truth. You and me and your spouse and my wife and Rachel and Winston, all of us go home as a family and we make choices. And that's

not how it was set up for us. We all grew up and they're like, dude if you just go to college or just do this and you can do this and this and this and this and this. And sometimes like the dream of we want, we want mom to stay at home. Awesome. We want to not get into the schools. We want to homeschool our kids. Cool. But we can't eat or we were just floating month to month to month.

And it's you guys as a family having to back out of that situation and say, okay, the price of milk is bananas right now. The price of bananas is bananas right now. Right. And so it is my two youngest are not school age. So if I went back to work, we'd have to pay for daycare. Yeah, I think you say go back to work. Everybody makes choices. Elizabeth, I want to know you got financially. Where are you guys at? Do you guys have consumer debt? No, we have credit cards. We don't use them. They are zero balance. We own our cars and all our vehicles.

How much does your husband make a year? About 65. Okay. And are you guys on a written plan, like a very detailed budget every single month that you know exactly here's the amount we have to spend. Okay. I think no.

Okay. So I think the budget is probably I need to do that. Yeah, yeah, no, no, it's fine. I mean, I think that's going to help a lot. And if you stay on the line after this call, Christian will pick up and we'll give you every dollar premium for a year because I think the budget it's one of those places, Elizabeth, that once you do it and you actually have boundaries around certain categories in your life and you force yourself to live within them, then suddenly you're

like, oh, there's our margin. There's our margin. It's not getting eaten up by that extra fast food run that we're going to go do or out to eat or whatever. Like it is amazing when you do plan out and stick to that plan. It's going to take about three months for you guys to get it to work. So remember that 90 days, give yourself a lot of grace between now and Christmas. But I want that to be your homework to say, okay, we're going to,

we're going to sit down and do this. And then, um, out of that and finding some margin and you'll look back on your, uh, accounts and your checking account last month and be like, oh my gosh, we're paying for two subscriptions we never use. We, you know, like when you actually start getting in the weeds of it, it is amazing what comes to the surface. Um, and even if it's 30, 40 bucks here or there, that adds up. I mean, that will get you some margin.

And so do you guys have an emergency fund? Oh, I just hold on one second. There you go. Oh, that was fine. Okay, so Elizabeth, I would- Oh, I blew it. Hold on. I messed up the phones here.

There you go, there you go. Do you guys have an emergency fund, Elizabeth? Do you have any savings? We do not have a specific emergency fund. We've got a decent amount in our checking account. Okay, so what I would do is open up a high yield savings and I would move three to six months of expenses out of your checking out to that.

And then that's not touched. So that's your emergency fund. If you have to have a few months to add to that savings to get to three to six months, do it. And then from there I would start investing 15% of your income into retirement and start that going. That can be through his 401k or Roth IRA, you guys can open up.

Real change in your money and relationships is possible. You can break the cycles that have kept you from moving forward. You can build a better future for yourself and it starts here. Hang out with Dr. John Deloney and I live in a city near you for the Money and Relationships Tour. Starting next week we'll be in Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City.

Time is running out so grab your tickets while you can at ramsysolutions.com slash tour. Welcome back. Triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five. This is the Ramsey show. Let's go out to Kimberly in Seattle, Washington. Hey, Kimberly, what's up? Hey, are you still there? We're here. How's it going? How can we help? Good. Um, well not good, but, um, maybe you can help help me out with some suggestions. Uh, my husband just, husband just like about a week ago was

went to the hospital and was diagnosed with basically liver, his liver is shot. It's beyond repair. They gave him maybe a year, year and a half to live. Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And he struggled with alcohol, you know, addiction off and on over the years.

And he, you know, he said, I knew that this was probably going to happen, but you know, when you're addicted, you're addicted and it's hard to stop something. So anyway, our situation right now is, um, he, uh, he's working or trying to work because he doesn't feel well. And, um, I've been doing the best I can to do Ramsey's stuff without him being on board, which means not very much. Anyway, I have questions here as to what we should do because this freight train is moving. Do you guys have kids in Kimberly?

We have adult kids who are doing really well. Off on their own. They're amazing. How old are you guys? I just turned 60. He's a few years younger than me. Three years younger than me. Anyway, in in fact I

just worked, I had a hospital bill, I worked, took a grinding job to pay that the balance off because of insufficient, you know, insurance and just got it done. So here we are with another hurdle. So I'm looking at, we do own our own house but because I haven't been, had access, you know, I haven't had access to the funding I wanted to do to keep up on it, it needs exterior repairs that are fairly expensive, as in roof gutters, some siding and then paint after that. It's an amazing house, it's in really good condition but that would have to be done if we were to possibly sell in downsize.

If that would be one of the options we should consider, I don't know. We have a lot of stuff sitting around that my other half cannot get rid of anything ever. So getting those, you know, options for getting those things sold and how to approach him on that, we'd have to have somebody come and remove things. Kimberly, let me hop in here. Yes, please. Kimberly, let me hop in here. Yes, please. You've gone directly, and quite honestly, if you've been married to somebody who's struggling with alcohol for a long time, you have been responding to crisis after crisis and thing after thing

forever, right? Amen. And then, so the way you said this, I want to challenge you on it. Well, now we got another hurdle. This is not just another hurdle. No, it's big. This is the stop sign. Right. Yes. And so you have been working with somebody for a long time.

Everything in this conversation has changed now. And the conversation changes to, now we have an hourglass, we have a clock that's ticking. And the doctors clicked it on for us. And so we're not talking about how you feel if you really like this collection of bottle caps you've been keeping for, like that ship is over. That ship has sailed out to harbor.

We are now creating a life that I'm gonna have to inhabit because you're gonna be gone. Yeah. And that looks like making sure I got a home with four walls on it and I can pay bills. Right? And some of it you're going to, I remember sitting with somebody that I care about deeply

and I was helping them and their house was full of stuff and I was trying to help them throw it away. This is several years ago. And I just finally stopped and looked at them and said, I need you to hear me say this. When you die, I'm going to throw all of this away. I can do it now or I can do it when you're gone." And there was a long, long pause and they said, you're gonna have to do it when I'm gone. And I said, okay, I'm moving on with my day. I'm not gonna spend another second

here. I've already made that choice, but I'm not gonna fight that in this moment. See what I'm saying? So I want you to- Right, because he was not even used to that idea yet. It hadn't even been in your dupes, right? Right. So here's what we're doing. It hadn't even been introduced, right? Right. So here's what we're doing. We're reverse engineering this thing for the four walls. I hate to live like this, but this is the clock you've been given.

I wanna go 18 months and start working backwards. What does life look like? And you don't have to do a roof, inside and gut. You don't have to do all that at the same time. We're going to price each one of those things out, these things that we have to do so we can keep our house, these things that we have to do so we have transportation.

You're going to have to have a job if you don't have any retirement. Yeah, what's the what's the financial status, Kimberly, do you guys and you said you own your home outright. So there's no mortgage or anything on it, correct? Yeah. Well, I was, you know, in the earlier days, I was working to, you know, pay a little extra here and there because I'm the, you know, I'm the one that doesn't want to be in horrendous debt, a debt of any kind actually. And he used to work a very good job.

And part of it was an investment account that was like retirement, right? And he got to a point where he wanted to start his own business. He'd always wanted to do this because his family had done it and they had done it poorly and they fought and they divorced but it still is a dream of his. So did he cash out the investments? So over time, yes, he cashed out almost everything. So what's left? He threw into a business without knowing how to run a

business. Yeah, yeah, I hear you. Kimberly, you're gonna have to set that aside because you got an emergency in front of you. So what debt? No, no, you're Kimberly, you're going to have to set that aside because you've got an emergency in front of you. I know. So what debt do you guys have? Any at all? Any consumer debt, credit cards, car loan? No. We have no debt. No debt.

And how much money are you- We have to pay the property taxes and things like that. Okay. Are you working, Kimberly? Do you work? I was in order to pay off my hospital that. Okay. Are you working, Kimberly? Do you work? I was in order to pay off my hospital debt. Okay. Yeah. It was horrendously huge and I finally got that paid off but it was very hard. It was

just a hard job and it was very hard for me physically. Okay. Okay. So not in a great position to work. Okay. What was he making a year? No. What's he making now? Yes. To keep you guys. Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. Crap, I should know this. No, it's fine. Thirty thousand, seventy thousand, do you have any rounds? Yeah, thirty something. Thirty something, okay. Okay. And that's enough. Okay, so, and any investment, sorry, I know you said he cashed out his to start the business. Do you have any retirement? No, he cashed them all out. Okay, so there's, sorry, I know you said he cashed out his to start the business. Do you have any retirement?

No, he cashed them all out. Okay, so there's no investments, no retirement. No. And does he have life insurance? Nope. Nope, okay. Okay, so what I want you to do, Kimberly, is the silver lining from a financial standpoint on all of this is you guys have no debt.

I mean, you don't even have a mortgage. So that in and of itself is like, that's a relief. So what John was saying, the four walls, I want you to go and do a budget, Kimberly, and I want you to stay on the line, and we're gonna give you Financial Peace University and Every Dollar Premium, because I want you to start budgeting,

and I want you to know to the penny. No, I do have Every Dollar already. Oh, you do? Okay. So to know what you... Thank God for that. That has been like saving my emotional. I'm so glad because I think if you have those numbers in front of you of the things you have to do, you have to keep the lights on, the cell phone bill, your insurance, food,

gas in the car, you have all of that. And that's what you're going to have to look at, Kimberly, and say, okay, I have to at least make this, right? When the time comes, I have to at least make this, right? When the time comes, I have to, I have to at least make this. And then I would not encourage you to sell the house or even to put in a ton of repairs right now. I think you're fine. What I would do is-

Thank God, I don't wanna do that. Yeah, and I wouldn't, and I wouldn't, unless your roof is linking or something, but like for now, and then Kimberly, when the time comes, I want you to grieve, I want you to go through that process and don't make a big financial decision until about six months to a year.

And if in two years, three years, you decide to sell the home and downgrade, take some of the equity, you can do that. But don't feel like you have to make these big decisions today. Today, I just want your four walls covered between now and 18 months. I'm so sorry, though.

I'm so sorry.