The Ramsey Show - "My Husband Destroyed Our Finances, Should I Leave Him?"

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author,

and my daughter is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Alyssa is in Indianapolis. Merry Christmas, Alyssa. Merry Christmas. What's up? I have a question. My husband has basically ruined us financially,

and I'm at a breaking point where I need to know if we need to file bankruptcy, if I should take over the bills, if I do, how to start, because I never have done them, or if I should do. just walk away because I'm just overwhelmed and I can't take all the phone calls and all the stuff that's going on. Like, I'm to the point where either I'm going to leave him or file bankruptcy or I need help. I don't know. Wow.

So, do you know what is going on, like how much debt you have? I would say probably close to 30,000 to 50,000 in debt. I'm not certain exactly how much. Like I said, he has always done the bills. But my breaking point was last year when he got my car repoed. I looked out the window. My money goes in the bank count every week from my paycheck, and my car was being repoed.

And he panicked and had his mother co-signed. The car was in my name, so he ruined my credit, and he had his mother co-signed. Well, now his mother has co-signed on a vehicle for me. That was a year ago. Correct. Why did you not get involved in the two of you sit down where you knew what the flip was going on from that point forward? Why did you still stand back?

I tried. I tried to get involved. For a little while, we had everything written down, what was going in or what was going out. I was telling him, we need to pay this bill. We need to pay this bill. And it slipped away from me when my kids were in ball season, and I was gone six days a week until 10 o'clock at night. And I just assumed he was doing what we planned. And I let go again.

and then now his mother is contacted me like the car payment's one day late pay it today like it has to be paid on the day it's due and I'm like I'm so done I we talked about this a year ago what is going on okay so it's more Alyssa that he he says he's going to do something and he doesn't and do you know where you guys are like when you're you say you were 30 to $50,000 in debt have you had him pull pull his credit report, pull your credit report to at least see, is he lying on that in? Because I'm just wondering if he's not following through with that. Yeah, I don't think he's lying on that end. I'm assuming that's what it is because I know basically about what's coming out and what's due. I just don't know when he pays it. And if he pays it, I think he's gotten so behind that everything's got a late. And is it, what's he saying, is he saying, why is he late?

He just says that the money is not there. But what I don't understand is he works 50 to 80 hours a week. What I don't understand is why you're still sitting on the sidelines and haven't gotten involved. You're really good at standing back and throwing rocks at him and you have no idea when all you've got to do is walk in there and sit down with him and the two of you get out of yellow pad and figure this out. I've tried. No, you haven't. I had ball six days a week. Bull crap. Your household's falling apart. Kids can't go to ball if the household's falling apart. You sit down and get out a yellow pad and the two of you work on it. I agree

So why haven't you done that? Because I don't know where to start. I've never done the bills, so I don't know. I want you to take them over. I want the two of you to sit down and figure out where it's going. Because it's pretty simple. You both have an income coming in, and in your mind, it's not, we don't think he's wasting it. It sounds like there's not enough money coming in to pay the bills, doesn't it?

It does sound like that. Do you know, Alyssa? So I don't know that your husband has ruined your finances. I think the two of you have ruined your finances. Okay. No, I don't think you need to divorce him. Poor guy. He's trying to carry this whole thing by himself, and he doesn't know what he's doing either.

You're both lost. And so, yeah, you guys have got. Yeah, and there's obviously a level of broken trust. If your husband says he's going to do something and he doesn't, though, and doesn't say, hey, this car payment can't be paid. We have no money. I need help, right? If he's just taking over and not bringing her in at all,

which again, Alyssa, you have to be the one doing it too. You may have to be the one pushing the buttons. You may have to be the one that actually is paying the car payment and is paying the bills for a season. If I were to just interview you guys separate from this whole situation, who would we say that the detail-oriented person is, him or you? I would say it would be me. Yeah, your underwear growers folded, his isn't.

Correct. He's so busy working. It's not that he's a bad person. What's he working on? What's he working on? He's working at the job 50 to 60 hours a week. Okay, so what does he make, hon? He probably makes about $120,000 a year.

Okay. So number one thing is we need to take probably out of the equation. By the, before the sun goes down, you need to know what your husband makes. Exactly. Okay. What do you make? I make about 32,000 a year. Okay.

So we have, let's pretend that that's correct. And we have $152,000 a year to work with. Correct. Okay. Now, then let's start spending that. The first thing we buy is food each month. The second thing we buy is lights and water. And those are all paid.

on time there's no reason they can't be paid on time how much is your house payment um it's i think around fifteen hundred okay no thinking anymore you need to know okay okay not around by the end of the day you're gonna know it's fifteen hundred and thirty two dollars and forty six freaking cents you need to know exactly because you can't blame anybody else anymore the two of you together have both got to put your feet on this together not throwing rocks at each other and join hands join arms and fight the battle. The battle is not inside your house. The battle's outside your house, and the two of you need to fight the enemy together. Okay. So we're going to pay the house payment exactly, $1,532.46. And what is your car payment with pray tell the freaking mother-in-law?

I have to estimate because I don't know. I think it's like some 150. I don't know. Good Lord. Okay. And what is this car? car. It's a minivan. Okay. How many kids have you got? I have four, but my daughter's deceased, so I have three living. Okay, three.

All right. And so we need to find out exactly what the car payment is, exactly what the house payment is. We've got the money to pay the house payment, the car payment, and with $152,000 to work with, give or take. We have the money to pay the bills that we've listed so far. and buy groceries you don't have the money to eat out you don't have the money to do travel ball you don't have the money to do any of that stuff yet right now all we're doing is just trying to keep the bills paid because the stress level is so high that everything's melting down and we've got to stop that okay so this is how you're going to do it you're just going to simply walk

through it the two of you together we'll put you into every dollar and we'll put you with the ramsie coach and get somebody to help you and hold your hand and walk you through this But I don't think this guy's done anything wrong any more than you have. Both of you just threw your hands up and said, Jesus, take the wheel. And then you're shocked that the car went in the ditch. And so you've got to grab the wheel, hold on to it, and both of you go, I just hired you for $152,000,

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Okay. When you are in crisis with your money, here's what you do. Take four steps back. You're too close. And you can't see the forest for the trees, meaning you have a tree branch stuck in your nose, and you can't see past it. And then the drama builds up in your head, and you spin out. And, When you spin out, you are of no value for critical thinking. Because when you drop into lizard brain, fight or flight mode, which is where our last caller was, that means you've slipped everything into the front side of your brain, and there's no critical thinking skills there. And cleaning up a financial mess, ascertaining where the financial mess came from so that it doesn't come back is a critical thinking process. So it requires that you take a deep breath, take a cold shower, two steps back, and start going, okay, I'm going to pretend someone hired me to talk to these people, and these people happen to be me. And I'm going to start walking that through.

Then the first thing you do is you make sure that the family has money for food, not restaurants, food. Restaurants aren't food. restaurants are entertainment, food, and that the family has the lights and the water and the gas bill paid, the heat is on. 99.9% of the situations you have the money to do those two things. When you are warm and fed, your brain works better. You can calm down. When you're warm and fed and you're warm and fed,

and you know that you are not going to be homeless because the next step is you pay the rent or the house payment on time or early. Almost everyone has the money to do those three things. Then we start getting to transportation. So when the dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was in the eighth grade, we took a class called civics. And in civics, they taught you the difference between needs and wants.

and the basics of life are food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. You take care of those things, food, shelter, clothing, you've got enough clothing, shut up. Transportation and utilities. So the lights are on, the food is on the table, we have a car to go to work, we keep the income coming in. Now the rest of it is a monopoly game that we might be losing. But it's not life or death. and we all have this little drama queen in our head that spins out and turns us into drama queens and we turn everything into life or death and it's not life or death but we turn it into that

I do it you do it well and when you watch your car being repowed outside like that's not fun right I mean like you know there's reasons when your mother-in-law is calling you there's all these things happening but but still okay that's transportation yeah right but why was the car payment I pay when they make a hundred and fifty freaking thousand dollars a year and you can't say for two years this has been going on and i'm standing on the sidelines only griping about it no you get your hands in the mess you reach up to your elbows in the mess and the two of you together and it's not i'm going to take over the bills it's it's like he can't do this for whatever reason or won't do it by himself yeah and so we've got to work together yes and i'm

just say what goes on in my head when I listen to her is I mean the compassion I you know you get on which is great and my I'm like oh gosh is this everything okay but but I tell myself if the reverse called which does happen and there's a spouse calling and saying I I I've been trying to do this I can't we don't have enough money here I can't keep my head above water and like well where's your husband where's your wife I don't know she won't she won't be engaged in it we would yell at the spouse that's not on the phone do you know what I'm saying so to that point yeah both Both have to be involved, right? And so I think this whole idea of just putting it all on one person, though, is unfair to that person.

The way you, it's not all on her and it's not all on health. Right, that's right, that's right. And so, I mean, here's the thing. When the Ramsey's went broke, I was 28 years old, Rachel was a brand new baby when we filed bankruptcy. 100% of it was my fault. I was doing real estate deals that Sharon hadn't even seen. I wasn't hiding them from her. She's just like, whatever you want to do, honey.

And I did. And I built a house of cards, and it fell. And, you know, from that day forward, she's been involved. And from that, at my request and demand, command that she's involved so that we have two sets of eyes looking at everything. Because we're not, I'm not going to do this by myself anymore. And we're not going to make huge mammoth decisions that affect our lives. And you can't stand on the sideline then and say, what would you do, you dummy? You know, so, no, I mean, it's a couple dummies working together here.

So we're going to figure this out, right? So, and so you've got to work together. You've got to come clean. You have to, then when you lay out your plan, you have to do it. And you can't, there's, let me tell you. No excuses. Before your car gets repoed, before you are about to leave your husband and file bankruptcy, you don't go to the ballpark. they're not even on the same planet okay like there's cancer we have to take care of the cancer

patient we can't make the ballpark sorry you know our life is is imploding yes this is this is you you know and you can't use that as a hide mechanism well he works all the time bull crap come home put on a pot of coffee and sit up till two in the morning get this stuff together figure out where you is and that that's what you're you've got to do and I'm not fussing at her I'm just saying I am fussing at her a little bit but but not right now I was earlier but the uh the thing is when you've got this stuff right in front of you this is the way you handle it you you go right down from food and you you take it apart and as you click off these things every time you okay I don't have to worry

about food one level of peace comes in and the angst and the anxiety and the freak out starts to leave okay I don't to worry about lights another level of peace comes in. I don't have to worry about being homeless. Another level of peace comes in. No repo man in my driveway. Another level of peace comes in. And you get down to we're four months behind on a student loan, which they're going to do nothing. So what? Okay. You get down to where the stuff that is really behind or is really, you know, if you do the right things first, by the time you get down to the other things, you know, it's almost laughable how much of, you've gotten rid of 95% of your stress. And you're in agreement and you're executing and paying the bills. Yep. And we're doing it

together. So no one should be doing this by themselves when you're married. Period. Especially in a crisis. Especially in a crisis. And I would say, you know, a crisis like what she just explained is we usually say, you know, if one person wants to go and actually like log into the account, pay the bill, that's great. A crisis like that, I'd say both of you need to be sitting down on the computer and together. You're both sitting in front of the computer and submit. Yes. I mean, seriously.

So that you know that it's done. Because when you know that it's done, it's not necessarily that I don't trust the other person. It's that when I know that it's done, I can sleep. That's right. Yes. And I don't have to be in drama queen mode. Well, in a case where there was lack of payment. And so that caused repercussions for a season, there is a building of trust, right?

And then a year later, if it's like, we are good, we've done this and done this. done this and then this and over now we develop the plan together and someone can execute that's right right but only after after it's there's competency yes yes totally so when we're when we're teaching leadership we teach people you can delegate when there's competency and integrity so they're not lying about it and they actually know how to freaking do it yeah okay and so it reminds me that all of this a little bit when you were on Oprah back in the day and there was a couple and you were like, you know, there was a money that wasn't, it was like a mishandling of money. He didn't know that they had $80,000 in debt that she had run out. That's right, right. And you

said, you need to apologize to her because you weren't present, you know, all that. You weren't involved. But it is. It's the, it's the mentality switch that both spouses have a level of responsibility. Now, if the other one doesn't keep their word and on and on, now we have a marital issue that we really have to face, which is true. Yeah. But until that point, both, yes, both have a say and both need to be sitting down and doing this. And both have a responsibility to do it. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly, everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential, because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage, no gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

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slash store, and you're going to love this book. I guarantee it. All right, Braden is in Phoenix. Hey, Braden, what's up? Hey, guys, how's it going? Better than I deserve. How can I help. I was given a rental property that's been nothing but a headache, and I'm just wondering if I should allow the bank to take it. I'm sorry, how are you given a rental property that has a mortgage? I worked for a company that did flips, and they kind of gave me it. I was young, and I didn't know what I was doing, and so I just basically took over the debt. They covered the down payment, and it's racked up some credit card debt as well. Okay, so what is owed on the house? $519,000.

But you did not get the mortgage? The mortgage is in my name. It was the down payment was to me. Oh, so if you give it back to them, they're going to foreclose on you and sue your butt. You understand that, right? Yes, sir. That would not be a good plan, sir. What's the house worth?

I had it listed at 540 and it wouldn't sell so I would guess 500,000 I overpaid for it who do you know shock and how old are you I am 21 so these flippers are these TikTok morons aren't they yeah he was like my mentor and I called him one of my best friends at one point but he was just a little older than I was yeah friends like that who needs enemies okay oh man I'm sorry sir um yeah who do you owe the money to what kind of a mortgage is it FHA VA conventional bank loan what is it it's a conventional mortgage okay are you able to make the house payment Braden are you able to stay current on it I am not so I'm actually

like 60 days delinquent right now. I am self-employed. I made $25,000 last month, and so I put that into a credit card payments instead of paying that. So it's a rental property right now. So I have renters in it. With renters in it, I lose $1,500 a month. Yeah. Okay. So your only way out because you owe more on it than it's worth net net is to do what's called a short sale. Have you ever heard that phrase yes sir as I work in real estate I know a lot about it I've talked to a lot of people who have suggested that okay do you actually know how to execute a short sale sir yes I know someone who that's all they do they're an agent here in town okay all right would they be willing to help you yes but they said not

with tenants in place and my tenants lease is until March. Well, I think you call your tenants up and say, hey, guys, the house is getting foreclosed on. You may want to find a new place. You may want to find a new place. It's only three months. Yeah, the biggest issue is it was leased through my mom's Airbnb account.

And so I was afraid it was going to hit that and destroy her Airbnb business as well. Yeah. Man, y'all just stacked stupid on top of stupid, didn't you man i'll tell you i'm sorry i've done i've done worse that's what i'm just feel bad for you it's like every because every time i bring something up there's another hook in it right so um yeah so uh if i'm in your shoes i quit paying the payments and i run the renters off okay okay as best i can i mean leave i mean just by telling them hey guys it's going to get foreclosed on

you may want to look for a place to live and they'll probably up and leave well and i'll let you out of the lease because I don't want you to get hurt if you want to go if you want to go early I'll understand yeah and then quit paying the payments and then start the short sale I if your friend won't help you while the tenants are in place go to ramsysolutions dot com and get a ramsay trusted agent that knows how to do short sales and they'll help you okay the tenants don't have to be gone for you to begin to negotiate a short sale it just makes it easier to show the house Well, and if you're in that world, Braden, you should have, you should have, you should know a lot of people. You said a lot of people have suggested this.

I'm sure there's a lot of realtors that you know that, you know, I mean, a Ramsey trusted agent, I would feel good about just because I know the type of people they are. But, yeah, I mean, finding someone should be relatively easy. So, and basically the short sale is, is you get an offer on the property that is net lower than the actual balance and you submit that to the mortgage company. And they realize having done an appraisal that they're not going to get any more than that. after they foreclose on you so they take that and you are looking for and you remember this phrase without recourse yes sir because that means they don't come after another they don't come after you for the difference okay yes another thing on top of that is my the old boss he paid his best friend to co-sign for me so he's he's kind of scared and going downhill with me so he's kind of

pressured me into paying the payments previously but I've just told him I'm done yeah Well, tell him, talk to your old boss. Yeah. Who set this up? You didn't talk him into doing it. The other guy did. And he did it. That's the stupid thing about co-signing.

He, yeah, sucks for him. So let me ask you this. Okay, you co-signed for a 21-year-old who's overpaying for a piece of property, and then you're shocked that you get stung. Okay, I'm saying, put together by a bunch of flippers. Yeah, this is a good way to get screwed. And so, yeah, yeah, I'm so sorry you're going to. through this. The great news is that when you're the other side of it, you will have learned

several lessons if you learn them. And you need to write them out. I'll tell you what some of them are. Never cosign. Never accept a cosine. Never buy a piece of property with nothing down. Don't borrow up to your eyeballs and expect a piece of real estate to work. It doesn't work. It doesn't cash flow. There's no possible way this nothing down TikTok crap works. It's on the map. Don't get in the Not an Airbnb business either, Braden. Don't follow your mom's footsteps. Yeah, and quit looking for all the get rich quick stuff. Every one of these things is in the get rich quick stuff.

But write down, okay, I don't need partners. I don't need co-signers, and I don't need favors from friends who aren't really friends who help me buy something that I overpay for and over borrow on and trap me in. And so, you know, one of my lessons is I never co-sign. That's one of the things I learned when I was just a little bit older than you and I went broke. and one of the lessons I learned is I don't have the only ship that won't sales a partnership. I'm not in partners with anybody, period. One of the lessons I learned is I don't borrow money anymore, period.

The borrower is slave to the lender. And boy, don't you feel that right now, man. Gosh, I'm so sorry, Braden. But a short sale is your way out. Cleaning out the tenants is part of that program. It's not necessarily start it, but I would start it. I would get it on the market and get an offer that you can take to the mortgage company. and have them accept a reduced payout on the mortgage, a call to short sale, without recourse.

If they don't say without recourse, they're going to sue you for the difference, as if they had foreclosed on you. And, Braden, you're a go-getter. You're doing stuff at 21, but this real estate, the real estate world, there's so many traps of what we just laid out earlier in the call, what Dave was saying. So remember those, okay? It's going to be really easy to get sucked into a deal that feels so great. Remember these principles, and it's going to be a more boring ride, but a safer ride for you. and up too late. You need better sleep. And that's what you'll get with Casper. Their mattresses are made for deep uninterrupted rest that keep you cool and comfortable. So you wake up feeling ready, not wrecked. Because rest is not a luxury, it's an investment. And the ROI is your well-being. So go to casper.com slash Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 25% off mattresses

and 10% off everything else. You get free shipping too. That's casper.com slash Ramsey promo Code Ramsey. Exclusions apply. Amanda is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Amanda, how are you? Fine, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm calling because my father passed away about a year ago and assigned me to be the executrix of his estate. But like you, he had some rough times financially early on, but persevered and he ended up doing really well in his life. He also tried to be generous. My mother has never been super interested in finances and is now dealing with the very early stages of dementia.

Before he passed, my dad mentioned that he had been helping to pay for his aunt's nursing home costs. We don't know that side of the family very well, and I met Aunt Dee's descendants at the funeral. But each month, $2,100 of her care is paid by someone on her side. And then $2660 is paid by my mother. Well, each year the cost of the care goes up, and we just received notice that it will be going up by $500 this next year. And so I told my mom in passing that, and I was surprised to hear that she didn't want to absorb the extra $500. dollars. In fact, she doesn't want to absorb any of it. She wants to continue to pay 2660 and have Aunt Dee's descendants pick up the rest. I can see why that makes sense as far as fairness

goes, but the thing is my mom is set for life. She's able to absorb the entire annual cost of the nursing home, and it wouldn't change one aspect of her life. What is the net worth now? How much money does your mom have? It's over $5 million. Okay. So this is not a math issue. This is an emotion issue. Yeah. I definitely think it's an emotion issue. So did your dad dictate this in the will or in the instructions other than verbally to you? There's nothing in writing. It's only verbally. So I just, I want to. How did you find out about it? He found out about it before he passed? Yes. He didn't tell me anything about his finances until about two days before he died. And then he was just like, talk, talk, talk. And I just took a bunch of notes. Oh, gosh. And

And when he was talking and you took notes, he said to do what regarding the nursing home? He said, I've been taking, I've been helping with Aunt Dina's cost. And that's what I said. I'll just continue to do that. She's very old. Does her family, and her family's paying 2,100 of it? That's right. Would $500 be a burden to them?

Do you feel like? I mean, I don't know, but I assume so. They all, they have blue-colored jobs and, yeah. And you're frustrated because you're like, Mom, you could spend a couple grand and it's all done. You know, the extra 500, right, right. So on the spirit of the thing, you're pretty sure it's what your dad would do. And you're still in charge of it? The estate has not been closed out?

No, no. There's a lot. Okay. How long? And he passed a year ago. Yes. Okay. So you're still managing.

managing what really is your mother's affairs on behalf of your dad's estate? Yes. And I probably will for the rest of her life because she starts. She's only 75 that she has the beginnings of dementia. Yeah, but that's different than you being the executrix of your dad's estate. You understand that's now becoming her power of attorney? Mm-hmm, which I also have. Okay, okay.

All right. So the lines are blurred between when you drop off doing the estate and start managing her affairs. Exactly. Yeah. So if you've crossed over into managing her affairs, you would have to do it at her behest. If you're still managing his affairs, you would do what he wanted. So what do you think it is? Well, that's what I'm calling you. I don't know. I can't tell. I can't tell. You're saying the estate is still open.

Why is it still open? Well, he had one main business and about 12 other small little businesses, and the main business is taking care of, and I am slowly working through the 12 smaller ones, closing some of them, and some of them are ongoing concerns. Okay. I guess it's just really a matter of relationship with your ailing mother. is really what it comes down to, because it's not a math thing, and it's not a bad thing to do.

So let's say you play it out both ways. Let's say, okay, we're going to put the other $500 in. Mom, it's what dad would want, and it doesn't affect you, and I feel like we need to do this. So I'm going to go ahead and do it. Then what's her reaction? Oh, I think she'd be unhappy, but I think she would also forget about it. Yeah. Okay.

And then the other way is, obviously, you can play it out to say, I'm not going to do it, mom doesn't want to do it and you let the other people know and you know they struggle through the next few years while this lady lives right well is there a way that you can help me kind of maybe talk her through generosity yeah i i mean i i i in this case i would just i would put it on your dad i would just say mom i really feel like dad told me to take care of this and it doesn't affect you you're okay you won't even know mom it's not it's not because i mean just because the math we could pay 10 times this and you would still never know it so it's not it's it's it's pretty much like buying a biscuit mom i mean you can afford a biscuit and we're going to we're

going to give this lady a biscuit because that's what dad wanted to do and you're going to be okay and i'm doing this i'm doing this for dad okay and you would do it for dad you if he was here it's what would have happened mom and you'd still been okay then okay and so i don't know if you're going to get her to be generous on this she's um like you said she's and and then she's going to forget it so yeah um i i think you do it and you just tell her why you're doing it gently kindly and we're not going to have an argument about this it's just a fact i'm doing this because this is what dad would have done if dad was here he would have done it and you would have been okay i'm here i'm doing it for him because it's what he would have done and you're going to be okay mom i'm going to make sure

you're okay mom this is not going to affect you at all mom i promise you've got plenty of money you're going to be okay and it's doing a good thing for somebody and somebody's going to be okay and i i think you just do it i'm it took me a minute to get there i'm trying to figure out yeah and what your moral obligation is but it's really a relational thing more yeah and from the generosity point it's hard to teach someone generosity when it's forced and they don't want to do it you know the the spirit generosity is finding something that they love their passion out and they get to plug into and it's fun So that's part of learning the generosity. So trying to force generosity, teaching generosity in this, I don't think is the way to go either. I'm going to make you give your money away. That's not generosity. Yeah. You're right. That's a good point. Oh, my goodness.

It's a good question, Amanda, though. That's hard. And when the lines are blurred, are you the executor of an estate or are you helping manage your mom's money? Well, the estate's still open and she's still paying the bills from the estate. So really, mom doesn't get a vote. yeah technically speaking so um she is the executrix and she's in good shape to make that decision you can ask your attorney to be sure neither one of us are attorneys but i'm pretty sure that's what they're going to tell you and morally and ethically that's where you stand for sure one more time folks we're coming up on uh the christmas season the new year season it's when people take stock of things this is when you jump on zanderinsurance.com Make sure you have the right amount of term insurance in place.

This is when you go to mama bearlegalforms.com and get your will in place. And this is when you write out stuff like this. I have a very detailed estate plan. And about this time last year, your mother said, but what would I do with all that collection of so-and-so? Because it's just a collection of so-and-so, right? Like your fees or so? Well, like my guns. Okay.

Well, I don't need all them guns. And what am I going to do with that? All your skis. Yeah. All your water skis too. Yeah. Well, there's important things, important things. So she's like, I'll just give them away.

And I'm like, you can do whatever you want. She said, well, I would like some instructions from you. Oh, that's fair. So I wrote out, here's what you do with this collection. Yeah. And here's how you distribute it. And here's who you call to get rid of it. Yeah.

And so on. And, you know, make sure the kids get some of this and the grandkids get some of that. And then the rest of it, you know, you can just get rid of. And that's fine. Yeah. Yeah, but she wanted the clarification, and this is a minor thing that was not in the actual will that Amanda's dealing with, but it was a verbal thing three days before he passed. That's what I was going to say. A gift to give your grown kids is to sit down and do this. Yes, and not on your deathbed, literally, you know, just starting to talk. I mean, it causes all this just to be the grieving process, all of it, so much smoother. Good reminder. This is the Ramsey show.

Hey, guys, it's George Camel, and I've got a hot tip to save you some serious cash this holiday season. Shop Aldi first. Aldi has everything you need for holiday get-togethers. I'm talking charcutory boards, holiday sides, desserts without the large price tags. You'll get fresh, high-quality food while keeping your budget off the naughty list because Aldi has the lowest prices of any national grocery store. It's true. Families are saving up to $4,000 a year just by making Aldi their go-to, which means more money for stocking stuffers.

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Kelly's in Salt Lake City. Hi, Kelly. How are you? I'm good. I'm nervous, actually, if I'm being honest. That's okay. How can we help? So just a little bit of background.

We're debt-free. We have money in investments, and we have money where we can contribute and give to people. And last summer we came across, or this past summer, we came across a international student who needed some help. She had lost her support. And so we have started helping her. And our goal for her is to help her get a degree so that, you know, generations can change with that. That's our dream there. But on several instances, she's been irresponsible, ungrateful, and at times kind of fudging the truth.

So my question is, what are fair expectations to put on an international student? I guess we have three. How many chances do we give her? And when does our help start being enabling instead of empowering? and we're just basically putting our money down the drain because she doesn't have the skills to get a degree and to function. Yeah. Is she here in the States, Kelly, or is she?

She is here. Okay. Okay. And what do you mean by fudging the truth? She's lying. Well, she's lying. But about what? What she's doing with the money or like other things in life?

No. So like, for example, one of the examples is she said she had, insurance and we got her into a junior college. And when she got down there, they said her insurance wasn't great and that the school had better insurance. So they just put that on our tab without talking to us. Well, she didn't come and say, guess what, my insurance isn't good enough. You're going to be paying $700 for that. That's one of the examples. Another example is that we were paying for her to take the TOEFL, the English proficiency test, and she didn't pass the first three times.

It's a $300 test. And so for the fourth time, I said, listen, why don't we get you an online class? Do you have time for that? Can you do this? She said, yes, I will do it, I promise. And when we got on to cancel the membership, she hadn't done one question. And on top of that, when we went to the take her to the test, the fourth time. She didn't even bring her passport. So that was money down the drain.

And so it feels like she's not studying. She's not appreciating. She's not taking it seriously. Yeah. The effort, we're putting in more effort than she is. You're wanting this more for her that she wants for herself is what it sounds like. Yeah. Yeah. It does. And we feel stuck now because we feel like if we take back, we've added some extra things we want her to do so that she has more skin in the game. But If we decide this isn't working for us, it feels like now we're the bad guys, and she has to go back to her home. So we feel kind of stuck here, but we don't want to waste our money either. Yeah.

Well, I don't do, I'll choose disappointment before I'll choose violating principles. and you're whole you would you would not tolerate this out of any other situation the only reason you're still in this game is you're guilted into it and guilt choosing guilt over resentment is what dr. John Deloney always says too yeah you're resenting her you're starting to resent her yeah yeah yeah oh for sure yeah I'm just I'm gonna pick a number and I'm a to let her know that at the end of that number, that our support won't end, and that gives her a little bit of an off-ramp instead of just a sudden end to it today. In other words, some severance pay, if you will.

So how much have you put into this so far? We've put in about $12,000. Okay. Over what period of time? Six months. Okay. And so if you put in $3,000 more, that... That would give her a few months to get some – we're going to budget $3,000 more,

and after that, our support on this is ending. We'll be cheering for you, though. Yeah, exactly. So we kept giving her excuses, basically. You know, she's fragile. She's stressed. She's been through a lot type thing. And just a couple days ago, we sent her a written note.

We expect these things to give her just one more. chance because we want to feel like we've done all we can she's got to start school again next January so we would with that we'd have to pay for housing tuition books all of those things and so we have this list and I'm inclined to say you need to do these things but if she doesn't do one perfectly do we say that's it this is your last semester I think this is her last semester. Okay. You're done.

You will keep paying in for that. I haven't talked. There's no joy in this at all. No. It's all regret. It's I wished I had, if I had it to do over, I wouldn't do it. Hello. Yeah.

If I knew then what I know now. Right? And so we don't, we don't continue. We don't continue. How much is, okay, is it a community college you said? she's in? It's a junior college, yeah. Okay. So what is this semester and housing going to cost you?

It will cost $1,100. Okay. Total. Yeah, it's not too bad. Yeah. Over the whole semester. Like I said, I would budget like $3,000. So we're going to cover this and we're going to give you this amount of money and our support

is ending at that point. Sorry. Okay. No more chances. It's not a chances. It's not a this didn't work we tried to do this and it was not something that we're it's not something that we're participating in anymore i don't it's not a and there's not a big corrective we're not going to make a big speech okay about all these things and because it is it just is what it is okay and so um you've you've tried to do corrective things and they didn't work yeah you mentioned

several of them okay so i'll give you an example all right when someone that's that is working here at Ramsey, we've got 1100 folks, is not working out. They're not competent or they've got a behavior issue or something. We sit down with them and say, look, this is a problem. We've got to fix this. And I'll walk with you while we fix it. But if we don't fix it, it's going to be a thing. And then we sit down again. And then we sit down again. And then we sit down again. And then we sit down again and then we say okay you have 30 days and during that time if you you know there's a zero tolerance you're going to be not doing this behavior anymore okay and if they do it again then we don't even wait the end of the 30 days as soon as they do that the next morning we sit down

and that conversation when they leave is one minute we've already had all the conversations that conversation is simply the decision has been made that today's your last day at Ramsey okay that's about it and then we you know wrap up all the key fobs and the computers and the cell phones that stuff right but i mean it's administrative at that point but we're not gonna we're not doing a corrective you know if you had just done this no we're not doing all that it's just your last day it's just today's your last day that's simple because if you had done all this, that was in the 90 days previous. Yeah.

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Go to Y-R-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey, not in all states. Today's question comes from Tucker in Wisconsin. My wife and I just started baby step three. Our 10-year-old is in dance lessons. And so far, we have been able to cover the cost. That bill will soon include travel expenses for competitions. My wife wants us to use what we have in the emergency fund to cover the extra expenses. But I'd prefer to save as much as possible to keep cash flowing the costs while making minimum payments on our debt. Our combined income is $150,000. we still have a credit card, but we'll cut it up when Baby Step 3 is completed. Who is correct on how to pay the expenses? Okay, well, Tucker, you're not in Baby Step 3 if you're still paying minimum payments on your debt. So you still have debt. So you're not on Baby Step 3.

I mean, who's technically correct? I mean, you would be. It's not an emergency. I mean, you guys know that if you're doing a competitive sport, that when beginning of season start and when things are due, you know when that's coming. You may not know the exact price tag for it, but you know, you know ahead of time. So it's, well, you don't know what the cost to.

I mean, you may not have the exact specific number, but you should know the range and what's happening with schedules. At least that's how it is with our three kids. I know when, you know, we just ended up for soccer this week for the spring. And I always know in December it's this. It's, you know, but they, you know, kick up the fees a little bit each year, whatever it may look like. so but it's not you know it's coming so that's not it's not an emergency and making sure that

you guys have the money for it too because you guys are still on baby step two you're still trying to pay off this debt you're you're not on a baby step while you still have a credit card you need to cut it up right now and then you're in baby step two until you get your debt's paid off you shouldn't have anything in the emergency fund except $1,000 and broke people don't travel with 10 year old dance competitions and you're broke people it's sad it's heartbreaking what is sad that the 10 year old's not no one will remember this in 10 months especially the 10 month or the 10 year old only the angry wife who's living her life through a 10 year old dance competition so no no this is just you just don't do this you just don't

I mean it's like your family is in jeopardy you're in debt and you have no money and we're prioritizing a 10-year-old dance competition over that. That's so screwed up. It's not even addressable. Okay, no. There could be a whole hour on youth, sports, kids, travel. I mean, it is, though. It is the emotional prioritization of it all.

Even if you've got the money. Even if you got the money, it's a different thing. But, I mean, we had the money. Daniel's playing ice hockey, and we figured out pretty quick he's not going to be in the NHL. And so. Well, I'll be tacky and say, have the money but we choose to do rec sports and not travel and that's our family that's exactly what

I said you're not going to be in the NHL so I'm not traveling to Atlanta to watch you play a sport that you're not going to play so you're going to do it here and and then we're going to go home and have a family and do other stuff so and I'm not paying 25,000 bucks for you to so you can have a vacation with your 10 year old buddies no I'm sorry no not doing it which is crazy that again it's that's such a these days such a controversial take yeah well I You know what I mean? No, no, no. Well, I mean, I mean, we're going to that.

So easy to stir up a controversy today. It's, no, I know, but I'm just saying the world today, Papa Dave. Common sense is so rare having it is like a superpower. I'm serious, though. In this year, literally, when you talk to parents, Deloni talks about this too. I know. And it's not a value system. I won't say, I won't say, which I'm not, but it is this, and a lot of it is fear base.

If they're not going to make a middle school team, if they don't make the middle school team, they're not going to make the high school team. And then they're going to do drugs and they're going to die. like that that's the feeling people have that's the I'm telling you the amount of the amount of feeling like if they don't get if they don't start now they're not they're not going to make it they're not going to do anything and it's not even worried about college or professional it really is people are so concerned about high school when the kids are in third grade and so they're starting to if you want to pay for some of this stuff it's fine but you need to be not broke

when you're paying for you don't need to go on vacation either when you're broke don't don't don't write in here and say, you know, my wife wants to use the emergency fund to go on a cruise. No, you're broke people. Broke people don't go on cruises. That's dumb. Work your butt off, build up some cash where you're not broke and then go on a cruise. Hello. Then you can actually enjoy the cruise.

But just fake it stuff and I'm just going to walk around act like this isn't going on. I mean, you have debt and you have no money. You're broke people. So act like you're broke when you're broke. and live like no one else and pay a price and then later you can do whatever you want to do and if then you want to do a 10-year-old dance competitions travel then we can argue about whether that's even wise but that's a different discussion right now it's not even on the table to have the discussion so now and so you're actually both wrong Tucker you're not in baby step three you're not in a baby

step you're still farting around with your credit card acting like you're going to be okay and so you know you're just wandering around over here and then she's over here at dance competitions so both of you you're not ready to get out of you're not really doing this stuff yet you're going to have to get serious about it like your freaking life depends on it like whether this little girl goes to college that matters and the number of girls that go to college on a dance scholarship is precisely close to almost zero okay there's a handful it's like the number of kids that actually play d1 sports and have a scholarship almost zero as a percentage of those that graduated from high school that played sports.

So, I mean, and then try leaving college and go to the NFL. Oh, yeah, there's like a 0.1% chance of that. So let's just keep, let's just track this whole thing all the way forward. The chances of you end up there's really close to zero. So what she'll have is a little trophy and a memory of a three dog night song when she's 30. That's what she's really going to have from the dance competition. Nothing else. A three dog night song.

I just made that up, but. You've got to have an old 70s tune in your dance competition, right? Don't you? Isn't that like a requirement? Oh, man. I think dance competition should have to have an old 70s tune. Papa Dave is just showing his age. I just think, I think that's possible.

Maybe Eagles, I don't know, whatever you want to. I don't care. But I mean, but this is what it is. It's not. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, you did cheerleading and competition cheerleading. No, I did not. I did not. I did not.

I didn't do a class. I didn't do competition. You were in a little camp thing one time. Yes, I did pay for that. I did a weekly. A weekly, yes, at the local. That's different than competitive. I know.

But we had no illusion that you were going to end up making $10,000 being a Titan's cheerleader. What I'm saying, though, is... What they make? They make about 10 grand, don't they? Let me say this. The parents today, though, I think, is less about them becoming professional athletes, and it's more about their childhood experiences and them being involved in something and being the best at it so that they can do it in middle school and high school.

You know what I mean? Like, I feel like it's a lot about... Really? Yes. Okay. I mean, I'm sure there's some. It's probably the dudes and their sons that are like, he's going to play professional ball.

I don't know. I guess that's what I'm saying. But at least for, like, most of the people I know, they still do competitive and travel. A lot of our friends do. And they know their kid isn't going to make it, but they do it because kind of everyone does it. Like, if you want to play at a competitive level, they all do these, like, crazy leagues. I don't know. Whatever everyone does is against.

I know. I'm just saying, though, like, I feel like an outsider. I really do. Like, we're one of the only families that doesn't do... I know. proud of you. Saying the reality. No, and it's not a pat on Rachel's back. This is, we just don't want to travel for kids' sports. And right now, we've, it's, it's a never say never, but for our, for our 10-year-old, we're not. As for me in my house. As for me in my house,

but it's a real thing, y'all. It's real. And it's not just our area. It's all over. You go to Texas, California. It's crazy. And you don't need to be spending huge amounts of money on children's sports or dance competitions when you're in debt and you're broke. Okay, guys, that's just not smart and you don't need to buy a boat so that because we get so much joy at the lake no you're broke people don't do this this is how people just it's a form of denial and denial is not just a river in Egypt. You know, The holidays are supposed to be joyful, but they can also be expensive.

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What's up? This is so cool. So my question is, my husband lost his job last week. And I think we are finally at the point of being sick and tired, of feeling sick and tired of living paychecks. a paycheck, but I feel like I have a hard time getting my husband to have that same gazelle intensity, because of how many sacrifices he feels our kids will have to make with the debt paying off process. So how do I get him and I to have that same intensity? What kind of sacrifices does he see it for the kids? So I think it's a little more,

to provide just a little context. He was a teen dad to two kids. We had two kids in high school. The mom's not in the picture, and they kind of had a little bit of a tumultuous childhood showing up until he got full custody. Then I came into the picture, and I'm their mom now, and so I think he holds on to a lot of guilt about just their childhood, and then trying to plan out, you know. How long ago was all that? How long was it going to take? He got full custody in 2018. Okay, so seven years. Yeah. And how old are they now? High school? They're 16 and 17, so by the time we get it paid off, we feel like they're going to be out of the house.

And it's hard to, like, think about saying no to them now, and then they're going to be gone. And we have a toddler who I feel like is going to reach the benefits of the decisions we're making now. And it's a lot of guilt for both of us. I would feel guilty if I was financially irresponsible, and that was the last message I gave them before they left home. Yeah. we're going to pretend like none of this matters because you're 17 and it was rough when you were 10 and so we're going to spend like we're in Congress and put ourselves deeply in debt and screw up our finances further as our way of saying sorry it was tough when you were eight and that's the gift we're going to give you

is model this very poorly for you well that's kind of silly yeah yeah i mean i mean brie i think there I don't know for him I'm like I want him your husband to have a level of seeing this that yeah there may be some sacrifices you may not be able to do the trip but also to remember that you know when your kids just because they are off in college I know life looks different but they also are still around you know you guys can still go and do things with them and it's not like parenting just stops at 18 right I mean it's like a relationship just ends, it continues on. And I know things look different and all of that and things will change. They're not in the house. But honestly, too, I think, you know, being present with them and them having a dad that's emotionally and spiritually connected to them and time-wise is with them. And you don't even mean like the relationship aspect is probably what's going to take them a lot further for their future relations. Them admiring their father facing his demons and changing his ways is way more important than him taking them to Disney.

Right, right, yeah. It just is. I mean, here's the thing. My friend Andy Andrews said, and I used it a lot when our kids were at home even, that we're not trying to raise great kids. We're trying to raise kids that become great adults. So plug that formula into this situation. And the best gift I can give these two teenagers is a dad who's saying,

you know what I haven't done well with this money thing and I'm going to start right now and for the last couple years you're here you're going to see me doing this right that's the good news the bad news is it means we're not going to get to do some things that maybe we would have done when I was irresponsible so can I can I ask how does that look like practically like we're not obviously planning any trips to Disney or something like that but like with like Christmas and then we have like three birthdays right after we didn't We didn't cancel Christmas or birthdays. We just didn't buy a new, we didn't buy a new BMW for Christmas.

Right. My son has to go bowling. Do we think, like, that's where I'm trying around. I'm trying around. We're like, do we stay. What's your household income? He just lost his job Friday. But he has some promise.

Like, I think he has some good things coming, hopefully, this week. But, I mean, it was, like, 1.30. Okay. And what do you miss? I'm just part time I make 20 bucks an hour I only work 25 hours a week okay so we have 130,000 dollar household income give or take when he lands the new position how much debt do you guys have how much debt are you carrying yeah 29,643 cents oh brie yeah y'all can do this so lay out a budget and say there's only this much

entertainment there's only this much and we're not going out to eat and we're not going on vacation but we can do a little bit of this we can do a little bit of that and we're We're going to, as a family, we're going to tick off $29,000. We're going to do it in a year. And you guys are going to watch it happen too. Yeah, do it in a year. Yeah. That's what I hope.

That's what I'm really hoping. No, it's not, 130 minus 30 is 100. Wham. And then after taxes, you'll be living on 70 or whatever. Oh, well. I know, but I'm just saying. I mean, do it. Yeah.

Yeah. But you can't use it. excuse of my children are going to suffer because your children are going to suffer more watching a father and mother who are irresponsible. They watch everything we do. They're going to do what you do. More is caught than taught. They're watching you. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I'm more concerned about that than anything else. Yeah. So, I mean, you guys do what you want to do, but that would be my motivation. And again, the great, and let me say this too. I mean, and again, I think I'm just in the middle of it because we're kind of in the Christmas season with little kids at home. But

And even looking back on my childhood, the things that you remember, the memories that you have, the things that actually shape who you are as an adult of what we're saying, that bring you to the workplace, that bring you into a marriage, that bring you as a parent, is not the birthday gifts, right? Like the gift you give your kids is you and the time that is spent together doing a puzzle even, right? I mean, it's like, you don't. I mean, I was talking, I was being interviewed this morning on another. I think it's a big deal. It really is. I was being interviewed on a radio station this morning. morning and the guy was asking me about this video that's going around about the what Christmas gift you get last year and the kid doesn't know. Yeah. But what experience? They remember every detail

about the trip. And I said, well, your sister's 40 and she could not tell you a single gift she got at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 years old. But she can tell you at 8, 9, 10, 11 years old, 100% of those Christmases at midnight. We were in church lighting candles on Christmas Eve. Falling asleep in the queue. And the kids are asleep in my lap. And she can give you that memory. and paint it so clearly in HD, or 30 years later. I remember mom spilling wax on a lady's coat in front of us one year when I was probably six or seven. Yeah, the candle dripped on a meat coat in front of us. Yeah, I mean, like, it's things like that that you remember and that's shape who you are.

But we don't know what we got for Christmas that year. No. So it's not to say don't buy something for Christmas. No, no, but it's just out of control. But it is the mindset and the perspective that I think has gotten so out of whack that if we don't do this, or buy this for our kids, somehow we're harming them. And what I'm saying is an experience that has to cost nothing is the thing that's going to shape and mold you.

And it's the Tuesday nights at home at having a family dinner. Like those are the things that create good, healthy adults. It's not the crap that you buy. It's really not. And is bowling fun? Yes, absolutely. Go, you know, take them bowling. But again, even the bowling experience is not the thing that shapes who they are.

It's having a dad who is present, who is talking to them, who knows them, is relational. all like those like literally that is what shapes you as an adult as a parent and I think we get so wrapped up in all this buying crap that I'm like it doesn't matter yeah so really doesn't but it does help me it always helped me to reframe it to say I'm not trying to raise great kids trying to raise kids that are great adults it changes the discussion who are resilient during hard times and maybe they have a hard year because they don't get to buy what they want but that's resilience they heard the word no what we can't say that That's illegal.

Y'all are doing great, pre, though. To your points, yes, you are starting, if you guys do this, you're changing the trajectory and not only of those teenagers, but that toddler that's in your house too. So, yeah, we are, we're cheering you guys on for sure. If you've got collectors breathing down your neck and you're drowning in credit card debt, you don't need another debt relief company trying to sell you sunshine and unicorns. You need real help. And Guardian Litigation Group is the real deal.

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Hi, David. How are you? Good, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Long story short, I just checked my statements from my financial advisor last month for, been the first time in a couple of months. Anyway, looking at them, and it only looks like I've seen about 7% growth this year and I was wondering if I should fire him and look for someone else.

What does he have you invested in? Do you know? It's supposed to be aggressive growth. Supposedly. As far as the individual funds, I'm not 100% sure on. Yeah. I just figured this out.

I just figured this out on Friday. Have you contacted them? I haven't. I haven't. I did contact. I did not ask about the retirement. I did contact them to figure out why this is another issue. My deposits I made into my money market account were not being actually used,

and they were just sitting there not gaining interest either. Oh, gosh, you had money in your money market account that he has access to that he's supposed to pull each month money from to invest, and he's not done that. Okay, there's a couple things wrong with the equation. All right. You probably should fire him, but not for the reasons that you. you're saying. You're griping about the rate of return and you don't even know what the mutual fund is. It's your responsibility to know what that is. Your financial advisor's job is not

to babysit you. Their job is to teach you and you make your decisions. And then if you don't like the returns, it's due to your choices. But you don't even know what's going on. You just tossed the money over the fence and hoped he handled it well. And that's a good way to lose everything. So I guess my next question would be, is that something that you would, is that something, you know, so I paid somewhat close attention to the market, listen to you guys, listen to other financial podcast. What kind of open my eyes to it? Was I seen that the S&P 500 has grown 14.5%? Something like that this year? 17. And you made seven, so something screwed up. Yeah, I agree with you. screwed up. But here's my point, okay? I do not have any mutual funds with my financial

advisor that I didn't choose. Not because I'm Dave Ramsey, but because that's what we teach people to do. Your financial advisor's job is to be a teacher and say, here's some things you could do, here's the historical data on this mutual fund, and it's one I might look at if I were you, and you go, yeah, I like that, and I'm going to make the choice to make the purchase, based on having been informed, and then if it doesn't perform, I made the choice, not him. And it was just a miss, okay? Because you pick some funds that didn't even keep, if they're aggressive growth, they ought to be outperforming the S&P substantially, unless there's some kind of,

I don't know what you pick, but I mean, you could be in all kinds of sector funds or something else. I don't know what you got into. but I want you to know what you're doing. And so, like, this is the way, you hear these sports figures that lose everything, like they make $10 million, then they're broke or something. It's because they turn it over to some guy and go, my guy's handling it, and then they don't even look at it. And it turns out in that case, the guy's a scam artist or whatever,

or he's a dufus, one of the two. I mean, I think the guy just handed you some mutual funds, half looked at them, you half looked at them, and you all chose poorly is what it sounds like. So what I want him to do is to take up a new position, if you're going to keep him, probably wouldn't. And that to be the heart of a teacher. And what I want you to do is not look for a babysitter, but have the heart of a student. And he should be presenting you with these ideas, too, right? I mean, you're not, this is why you hire someone is to do it and to show you and to give you options.

Like, that's what our advisor does. It's like, here, here's. But then you know what it is. Yeah. Yeah, you know exactly what. So I guess that's, you know, my biggest question for him, my guess, would be what's the benefit of paying you when I can open an account on Vanguard Shwaffe, whatever, and just throw it in a S&P 500. Yeah, you can go buy a Vanguard S&P and throw it all in there, and you made 17%. That's called passive investing.

Okay, that's called passive investing. That's better than what I'm paying him to do. Yeah, well, now what you're paying him to do is not to, is to, is to, is to, show you mutual funds that are outperforming the S&P and then and then you decide if you think they're going to continue to do that I buy mutual funds through my investment advisor I there's 8,000 mutual funds I mean I grew up in this stuff and I'm not going to comb through all that crap that drive me nuts okay I'm not that big a nerd so I call him up I'm like hey find me four funds in this category that are outpacing the S&P and because I want to put some money in that area

or in the case of you follow the Ramsey recommendations for your 401K, put a fourth in growth, a fourth in an aggressive growth, a fourth in a foreign fund or an international fund and a fourth in growth and income. We put a fourth in each in my retirement. And I want all three of those to over a 10-year period of time or longer to have an outperformed the S&P. Yeah. And they're hard to find, but you can find them. They're not, if they've got the software to pull that up and they pull up three or four and we look at them together, we go, okay, which ones are these do we think? talk about it together, and then we make the choice together. I'm not paying him to be a stock picker. Okay. I'm paying him to help me manage my money. Yeah, and also a great financial

advisor is looking at more than just your 401k and your investments. They're looking over your entire financial portfolio. They're looking at your house, taxes, they're able to look at everything. And I think for, that's where I see the benefit is having everything in one place. Now, Yeah, is the vanguard option there? Absolutely. But I would even bring that to a financial advisor to say, I have this over here with me, put that in my portfolio so I can look at the whole picture, right? So I don't know.

Ours has helped us, you know, do things that I'm like, oh, well, that's creative. I didn't think to go here and here. And they know about, you know, whether it's, you know, liberals are ways to invest. And it's great, though. But they don't, they didn't call you up and tell you they did it. No. They call you up and say, here's an idea. You all understand the idea.

And then do we implement the idea? Yes, but there is a... Whether it's a mutual fund purchase or whether it's a tax move or whatever it is. But David, a lot of people... Don't look for people to manage your money. You manage your money with the help of an advisor. And yes, you can outperform the market if you do that. Okay, can I tell you, though, there's a lot of that of what David just said moving right now

in people aren't wanting financial advisors. They're just wanting to go and invest themselves, opening a vanguard. That's where a lot of people are feeling... Well, the S&P 500. Vogelheads have been around forever. Okay. That's not, that's not new. No, I know it's not new, but I'm saying more and more people are not, the traditional, hey, I'm going to go and I need a financial advisor to get me in the space. You don't need one to get you in the space. You need one to maximize the space. That's it. Well, that's what I'm saying, though, is that it's more,

I'm hearing more and more people. People that have a financial advisor have a higher likelihood of staying in when the news on the, when Trump burps and the market goes down, they stay in. And the people that stay in are the ones that make money and they have a higher probability of picking better mutual funds because they're getting actual they're learning your your your your smart vestor pro on ramsysolutions.com has to have the heart of a teacher or we won't put him in ramsay trusted we won't put him in there or her in there okay and so and you know and most of them make a percentage of the of the amount under management is what they get usually 1% or so.

That's about what they get paid. And so they need to be doing something that outperforms by 1% the market. Otherwise, they're not worth their money, so to speak. So, yeah, you know, you get in that. But yeah, but you can. It's the Bogle started vanguard. And they're called Bogleheads. And his premise was correct.

He was a genius. It was that the S&P 500 outperforms more than half of the mutual funds. So if you just blindly go pick a mutual fund, you'd have been better off to pick the S&P 500 index, was his point. Yeah. And that's why he started a no commission, no load, S&P 500 at Vanguard. And it's the famous thing in the stock market history. And so people that say, I'm not going to think about this. I'm just going to dump it into S&P 500.

And I'll at least make what the stock market makes. And I'll outperform more than 50% of the mutual funds by doing that. Those are called Bogleheads, okay? And they're not new, just because TikTok came along. No, I'm not saying they're new. I'm just saying I'm hearing it more and more. People have the access to it. I've heard Dave Ramsey's a crook for 35 years because I told people not to do that

and go get, go pay a commission to outperform Bogleheads. And Dave Ramsey's not a crook. I'm a genius. Yes, you are. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios. There's a lot of discussion in America today. About the 20-somethings, the Gen Ziers and the millennials, having an affordability crisis. A lot of it is centered towards home buying, but it's also just in general.

Life is too expensive. We don't make enough. Capitalism is failing us and whatever. And there is a serious pinch on these two generations. but it is not because things are too expensive. It is because the large banks and the car companies and the U.S. Congress have conspired to screw them. We have record credit card debt, the most ever. What's in your wallet, says the actor on the commercial.

over and over and over and over again. They've been brainwashed to believe by the big banks that if I use a credit card, I can prosper with the points and the airline miles, which is mathematically ludicrous. They've been brainwashed by the lending industry that if they have a high FICO score, that they are somehow winning when 100% of the mathematical items and the algorithm for the

FICO score are debt related. You can inherit a million dollars, and your FICO score doesn't change a point. Your boss could give you a million dollar a year, raise in your salary, and your FICO score doesn't change a point. It is not a financial health score. It is how much you've been screwed by Citibank, and fifth third. and these large banks and Ford Motor Company and General Motors credit and Chrysler credit and Lexus credit, need I go on with all the credits. 20% of the borrowers that left the car lot last month left with a car payment over $1,000 a month.

when you have a thousand dollar a month car payment or three and you're really running up the credit card debt because you're chasing the FICO score that you've been taught to do by these villains you have affordability issues add to that we've got 18 year olds that are loaned a hundred thousand dollars and the loan is guaranteed to be paid by the U.S. government What bank won't make this loan? Because they're 100% guaranteed to get their money. It's called a guaranteed student loan. And so, of course, they're going to want to loan this money.

So they loan $100,000 to an 18-year-old who can't buy beer. And they choose a school based on the fact that the street is pretty in front of the school. This is combined to create a two generations that are, are completely handcuffed by these megabanks, the U.S. Congress, and these car companies, and there's where your affordability crisis is coming from. Yes. If you're in Gen Z, you're feeling a pinch, but you also signed up for it, darling. And these companies are screwing you.

And I think you ought to say enough is enough. If you want to get pissed off at something, it's not capitalism. It's that you got screwed by the megabanks, and you need to go back to something like a credit union or a small town local bank where they're not trying to screw you with every transaction. And making so much money. Yeah, Newsweek. Newsweek is reporting you may not be asking for more credit, but your bank systems were giving it to you anyway. Bank initiated credit limit increases, four and five credit limit increases in the United States are initiated by the bank rather than requested by the customers. So what's happening with your credit cards is they're sending you a notice that says,

oh, we looked at your situation and you're so valuable that now you don't have a $5,000 limit, you have an $8,000 limit. You weren't even up to $5,000. You weren't limited, but you now think that you can spend this, and so you go and spend again. Borrowers largely end up using the extra credit, revolving balances rise by around 30% following these limit increases, indicating that algorithmic decision-making has become a major but largely hidden driver of household debt affordability issues. And evidence shows that borrowers, they're altering their spending with changes in their

credit limit, even if they weren't previously constrained by the credit limit. So it's the mental game we talk about to say that, okay, you know, that I'll spend as much with the credit card than a debit card proves to show you if you feel like you have a large amount of money to spend, you will spend it. They're altering their spending without even realizing it because the limits are increasing by the banks. And then some moron on TikTok who was taught by his communist college professor that capitalism is bad is saying, oh, socialism is the answer. When the problem is not socialism or capitalism, the problem is these banks have been screwing an entire generation and no one's standing up for them. Well, we at Ramsey are standing

up for you. We're going to kick your butt while we're doing it because we love you and we want you to get out of debt. So stop jumping in the bear trap and then expecting not to have your leg torn off. Of course you're going to have pain when you jump in the bear trap. Stay away from the bear trap. These people are not your friends. I know they have a glittering little smile and Bradley Cooper is camping out in the lobby. I couldn't give a crap less. It's the most advertised and marketed product on the planet, this thing called debt. These people's job is to screw you. And if you don't make it your job to quit being screwed, then you're going to have affordability issues, honey,

because you're going to be what we call broke people. So stand up and say, I've had it. We're not going to take it anymore. Play the old rock song, right? We're not going to take it anymore. And, you know, I've had it. I'm not living like this, and I'm not going to play these people's games. If you want to be pissed off at something, you don't be pissed off at capitalism.

Capitalism is not your problem. Your problem is you stepped up into the bear trap and the bear ate you. And it wasn't capitalism. It was a bank and a car company and a system that redefines success improperly for you. This is not success. You are not successful when you have a high five. FICO score. All it means is you gave the bank a whole bunch of interest. That's all a FICO score. I have an 800 FICO score. And when someone tells me that, I always say, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. That's like saying I have high blood pressure and bragging about it. No, thank you. Don't do that. I'm so sorry. So if you want to fix your affordability, if you want this generation to fix their affordability issues, they can buy a house. when they don't have $1,200 car payments,

a $150,000 student loan debt on a degree in left-handed puppetry because they were sold a lie that any degree is valuable and every degree is not valuable. Oh, and your FICO score is not a measure of financial wealth or health. It's a measure of how much you've been screwed. When you get that right,

you're going to get this whole affordability thing fixed, boys and girls. an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're hand-picked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit Ramsey Solutions.com slash agent. Ramsey Solutions.com slash agent. Tony is in Tallahassee.

Hi, Tony. All right, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, my question is, I got a bunch of sterling silver. I've been saving up. I started back in 2015, 2017, and I was wondering if I should sell it. And turn around and reinvested in silver coins instead of the sterling.

Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, I don't buy precious metals as an investment. I don't buy silver as an investment. So I would not, since I don't do it, I don't advise other people to do it. And my reasoning is very simple. The rate of return sucks. Well, I've already made like 66% increase.

on what I've already purchased. Like I said, I bought it in 2015 when the sale was about $15, $20 an ounce. And I've already, you know, got 66% return on my investment already. But I want to get rid of the sterling and invest that into silver coins. In 2015, you said, right? Yes, sir. Okay. It was about $16 an ounce then.

I'm looking at a chart, right? Right. And it hovered at $16 an ounce up until about five months ago. So all of the return has come in a recent spike. It's not a steady investment. And following a recent spike in precious metals, you usually see a sharp decline. It's a great time to sell silver. It's not a great time to buy silver.

No, no. That's why I'm concerned if I should just sit on it and watch the stock market at the crashes. I would sell it and I would not be invested in silver. I mean, if you like silver, I would just challenge you. Go back and look at the 50-year chart on it. It's basically flat with a couple of spikes, and one of them is in the last two years. It's an unusual spike. But, I mean, over the last 50 years, it's just kind of does nothing.

And then all of a sudden there's two places, 2008, and now that there's a spike in the chart. And that's it. Versus, if you follow the stock market chart, a good S&P 500 as an example. we're talking about that earlier through that same period of time it's a steady increase so you know 23 and 24 we're like 20 plus percent on the S&P the S&P to date in 25 is 17 and so there's 20 something last year three years that you're going to get your 66 pretty quick in that and so in a shorter period of time than you got 66 and I don't think that's realistic in the stock market, by the way, but that's what has actually happened during the same period of time

that you made 66 on the silver. And so I think your number's right, by the way. I'm not saying, I'm not challenging your number. I'm just challenging that it's such an anomaly. It's an anomaly within the space. And I don't buy things based on anomalies. I buy things based on trends and steady charting. You see, we'll see the chart go like steadily up, up, up, up, up. Yeah, and this chart with silver on your computer. It is all over the map. flat and a little spike and then flat and then a little spike and that's it and so i'm you know i don't buy stuff so sell it now tony sell it all get out of it and you'll make the most you probably will make yeah if you wait it's going to drop and when you and you're going to lose the money that

you made or that you haven't made because you're insulted but there you go caroline's in austin texas hey caroline what's up hi um so i'm a millennial and i was one of the millennials that did the stupid thing of like go to school and take out like whatever loans to get the dream job. I did it. I got the dream job. Now I'm 35, including our house, our remaining school loans, and the final items on our list where our debt's listed smallest to largest. My husband and I now are remaining debt is we have including the house, our school loans,

his car and a business credit card from when he ran his business, we have about $260,000 in debt. How much of that is your mortgage? Our mortgage, we owe $122 on our house. Okay, so you have $140,000 in miscellaneous debt. How much of that is student loans? I owe $93,000, and my husband owes $22,000. So 110 of the $140,000. So the car and the credit cards and all that.

are about 30 yes yeah vehicle is is nine grand and your household income your household income is what um i make 85 a year 85 grand a year and my husband now makes 130k a year um we just established this income um phenomenal i was a red winner during the pandemic um we've been working the baby steps since 2018 pre-pandemic i was rolling like an extra thousand towards my How much have you paid off since 2018 to get to here? So I went to school for 10 years. No, you said in 2018 you started the baby steps. I asked how much you've been paid off since 2018.

I paid off $40,000 in my school loans. See, I mean working them very hard. So my husband lost his job, and then we had two babies during the pandemic. All right. But you really made almost no progress on your baby steps. which is bottom line. Okay. All right. We listed our smallest to largest debt. We paid off six of the, we have 11 items on the list. We paid off six.

So the remaining items are my husband's car, the credit card for my husband's business. I got it. And then the student loans in the house. So I received an inheritance of about 600,000 in assets. Whoa! Yes, praise God. Yeah, awesomeness. So $234,000 is cash, and that's in a savings account.

$100,000 is in Exxon stock. And then the other remaining asset of that $600,000 is farmland that's valued at $250,000. So you can sell everything but the farmland and be dead free? Yes. Do it. So my kids are two and three. Wait a minute. Stop. Stop. I don't want to hear any more stories. Why would you not do that? So I'm trying to figure out how to take a career pause. So I want to go, is it dumb to just try to pay off?

If you paid off everything and kept the farmland and had a paid-for house and paid for a farmland and zero debt. No, you wouldn't have a master. You wouldn't have any debt. No mortgage, no nothing. Your husband makes what? Yeah. 130. 130? And you want to quit and come home and live on 1.30? Sure, you could do that. And then our savings would be nothing. Wouldn't that be unwise? Your savings would be nothing? You'd have the farmland. No, it's not unwise. You have a $130,000 income and zero debt. You ought to be able to invest now and start investing. Okay. Okay.

How old were you? You said you're 35. I'm 35 and I want to take a pause by the time I'm 38. So take a, have at it. Take a, take a calculator and pull it up, pull it up at Ramsey Solutions.com, okay? Pull up our retirement calculator and put in these numbers, okay? 15% of 130,000 for 30 years. Okay. And that's going to be about $17,000, about $1,500 a month. That's if your husband never gets a raise and you never go back to work and you save 15% of your income.

Okay. that in for 35 years, you're going to see $5 million or $6 million. Okay. And we'd own our house and we'd have no debt. All that time, you'd have no debt. All that time you'd have no debt. The farmland's going up, the family land, and your house is going up, and you're going to go back to work, and he's going to get raises.

So you're going to end up with $10 million. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Thanks. This is exactly what I needed. Yeah, you got to do it. All the debt. Okay.

Cool. I was worried. But you've got to do the whole thing. Okay. You can't just. Yeah. You can't just go, oh, well, something happened. No, no, no, no, no, nothing happened.

We're putting this money aside. And Caroline, you know, it's been eight years of you guys working this plan. Like, you, and there's car loans in here and all of it, right? Like, you guys, stop it. Yeah, you guys have to agree that if we're going to go this debt-free route, we're going to live that way for the rest of our lives. If we get rid of buy a car, we have to save up and pay for it. Yeah, if we're going on vacation, we have to save up and pay for it.

Or we can't go. Absolutely. I've owned my car since 2015. But your husband hadn't. And you're married to him. So you haven't owned your car. You haven't owned his car. Quit doing that stuff, okay?

It's exciting, though, Caroline. You guys can do this. This is awesome. You're in great shape. But you can't fall back off the wagon and hit the numbers I'm talking about. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Winning at money is 80% behavior and 20% head knowledge. What to do isn't the problem.

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Grab gifts while you can. These prices won't last much longer, and it's not much time to ship stuff. We've got to get it to you. Rachel Cruz, sitting right to my right, has three kids' book, one on gratitude, great books, one on gratitude, one on generosity, one on contentment. They're on sale right now.

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Ramsey Solutions.com slash store. Eugene and Carol are with us. Hey, guys, what's up? Hey, Dave. Hey, Rachel, we're so excited to be here. We're glad to have you. I see on my screen, you guys are baby steps, millionaires. us what your net worth is?

So, Dave, it is about $2,326,000. Good for you. Give me a little breakdown on that. How is that $2 million broken out? Yes, so about $950,000 is the home, which we bought 12 years ago for $375,000. So we're blessed with that. Retirement, a little bit about $1,003, emergency fund, $98,000. For the college, we have done for the kids about $175,000.

We have two of them. They're 13 and 12. And in cars, we have three vehicles. All pay for about $70,000, the three of them combined. And how much of this did you all inherit? Zero. Zero. I like it.

Okay. And your ages right now. How old are you? I'm 44. And I'm 47. Cool. And what were your careers or are your careers? I have an MBA. Mm-hmm.

And I'm in sales. And you're what, Eugene? I'm in sales. Sales, okay. And what was your career, Carol, with your MBA? I worked in marketing. I worked in marketing. Got you for a long time.

And what's the most you guys have made as a couple in a year? about 200,000 okay and what's the worst year you had as a couple income probably in the beginning when we first started we were each making about 30,000 a year okay so 60 to 200 was the range you're 44 and 47 you have 2.3 million you did not inherit any of it what was your GPA in college mine was 3.8 and eugene 3.2 okay all right smart but not geniuses I like it. Very good. No. Not at all.

What do you drive, Eugene? So I have, well, after becoming millionaires, I bought for my wife a brand new van, Toyota, Sienna. Nice. We upgraded her eight-year-old Zienna. And I just got a, you're going to love this, Rachel, a model Y, a Tesla. Oh, Eugene, I knew I liked you. I knew I liked you. And the minivan.

Y'all are like our family. You're running an eight-year-old minivan, right? No, you got our brand-new one. No, we have bought it eight years ago. Oh, you bought the van eight years ago. Yeah, when they forgot the first man. The old one. Yeah, so Dave, when we started the baby steps, we downgraded.

I had a really leather seat interior minivan, and we went down the cloth seats because we had to get on the plan. And so after we became debt-free, Eugene's like, okay, we're going to go buy you your dream car, Which is a van. Yes. With leather season, all the bells and whistles. I get it. Okay. So you're in Miami, and I hear an accent.

What is your heritage? We are from Columbia. Columbia. Our parents are from Columbia. Carol was actually born here in New Jersey. Beautiful family. We see the picture right now. But I came from Columbia when I was 19 years old.

Okay. With two rolling bags and $90 in my pocket. Wow. You know, we've been blessed. amazing. Yeah, you've worked your tails off. The American Dream is what you've experienced. It's incredible. Congratulations. I'm so proud of y'all. Way to go, guys. Well, I got to ask you, and I know the answer, but I got to ask you, can it still be done today? Absolutely, it can still be done. You know, you sometimes you ask people, what would you say to your younger self?

Yeah. It's, you know, this is built on consistency, not on income. You got to get on financial peace, getting a written budget, you know, you have to really drink the Kool-Aid. We teach us to you and we tell people you cannot do this-ish. You have to, you can't do this-ish. You have to do it fully. You have to live below your means. It absolutely can be done.

You sometimes ask people, how do you feel to be a millionaire? Honestly, guys, it doesn't feel like we're a millionaires. Most of our money is tied up in retirement and real estate, so we can't. You're driving an eight-year-old Toyota. And we're still in a budget, even when we're two kids, they have their own folder in the every dollar app. Yes. Yes. We go to $6 movies on Tuesdays.

Our kids joke around that we still live like no one else in the Jeep side, that when are we going to go to the other side? So, yeah, it's been such an adventure. We're so honored, so honored to talk to you. And Dave, you changed our life in 20. 2016 and you put day you put god put you on our path um and we thought that it was possible and we had a dream you know and proverb says the fools are headstrong and they do what they like and white people take advice and so we took their advice wow well we're honored to be a part of your story you're definitely the hero in the story very very well done all the way from uh from nothing

from ninety dollars in your pocket and two roller bags to two point three million dollar net worth paid for house retirement's full of a million dollars uh no inheritance they did not inherit their money so all you people that think that that's what happens it's not what happens what happens is sweat and calluses and consistency and focus and sweat and calluses and consistency and focus and sweat and calluses and consistency and focus that's what happens yeah you guys are amazing i'm so so proud of you hey thanks for sharing your story with us okay thank you Nice. It's such an honor. Well done, you guys.

Very cool. I have decided, we've been interviewing these baby steps millionaires for years now. And I started asking about, I don't know, two years ago when I'm talking to them, what car they're driving. The number of them that have a Toyota of some kind, not a Hyundai and not a Honda, a Toyota of some kind. I don't know what it is about Toyota. They are great cars. They are good cars. very interesting. It's not a, it's not a used Lexus. Right, it's a Toyota. Yep. Yep. You know,

and it's just over and over and over again. I hear Toyota. I hear Toyota. I don't usually hear Tesla. That was a new one. Okay. That doesn't usually come up, but yeah. Why am I blanking on my the toy, oh, the Odyssey? I was like, why am I blanking on my van, the Toyota van? It's amazing. Oh, no, no, it's a Honda. Here's a Honda. Your's is a Honda. Yeah, okay. I don't know cars. It's still a minivan, a very nice minivan. That's right. The Toyota Sienna. That's it. Oh, and that's what they had, the Sienna. They had the Sienna. But they have a Toyota. I hear you. I hear it. They don't match you exactly. They have minivan and a Tesla, but different brand minivan. That's fair. That's fair. Sorry. Very cool. I don't know why I loved the Toyota idea, but it's just, I just run into a lot. And the other thing is I find that millioners forgot to upgrade their cars.

This one's not too bad, so I didn't, I didn't, but often. times I'm saying, hey, dude, go buy your wife a car. Really, I mean, a 93 Camry and you're worth $4 million. Come on, dude. Time to upgrade the car. Pay cash for it, but it's time to upgrade it. Come on, man. Come on, man. And so the number of times I'm saying, telling a millionaire that they need to upgrade their watch car. They forgot. They just, they didn't care. Will you ever, will you ever have a self-driving car? Any part of you at all? A Tesla. Like, would you ever? I hardly ever say never on anything mechanical. I mean, I, I cannot visualize having, a car that I have to plug in the wall. I can't get my head around it and I can't visualize not

having the thrill of driving. I love driving a really good car. And I, you know, especially a nice curvy Tennessee Mountain Road, right? It's a lot of fun for me. You think you're going to die if you're in the passenger seat. But yeah, and I'm, but I, no, I think, you know, was it, Phoenix has got all of the, the wegos or whatever they're called. Now, what are they called? The self-drivers. Yeah. Oh, the, like, yeah. It's like a taxi. Waymo. I got close.

Okay. Yeah. Like Henry Cloud sent me a picture of riding and no driver. Yeah, that's weird. That's pretty crazy. Yeah. It's one of the best times of the year, but it's also the time of year when people let their money get totally out of control. Everywhere you look, it's just buy, by, buy.

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Nelson Mandela said money won't create success. The freedom to make it will. Courtney is with us in Tampa. Hi, Courtney, Merry Christmas. Yes, hi, thank you for having me. Sure, what's up? I took Financial Peace University earlier this year, and I'm in Baby Step 2 with about $33,000 of remaining credit card debt.

Good for you. But I'm wanting to live, thank you, in Baby Step 7. So how do I handle wanting to live generously, especially with, you know, the recent shutdown and people struggling and working in an area where I think part of it is like, I have cash in my pocket now and I want to, you know, give it to the guy that's sitting outside 7-Eleven or something, but how do I live generously and feeling like I have the means to do so, but still have my own debt to tackle? now well um you know baby step two is we're living on a detailed type budget we're not going out to eat we're not going on vacation and any money we can squeeze out of anything extra work or underspending or anything we throw with the smallest debt which would not mean there's cash in your pocket understood so that means it's going on the smallest debt now it's a really good question though you've got a great heart and i will

tell you that over the years of doing this, that the people that are motivated by potentially becoming outrageously generous do some of the best work of getting out of debt and building wealth because they have a good reason, a good why for building wealth. The idea that you want to be a baby step seven and give away, not just pocket change, but serious money and help somebody in a serious way, that motivator is so noble. It's such a calling on your heart that it will lead you out of debt, a higher probability of getting out of debt and faster than something that you wanted selfishly. So you're an incredible lady. I predict big things for you. What Sharon and I did when we were at this stage, because we had the same heart, we desperately wanted to be generous

and had no money because all of it was going on debt. So all we did was, we just did acts of service. And you tithed. And so we tithed. We give attention. of our income. That's, that's a baseline. But above that, we didn't walk around and, you know, we didn't, but maybe we couldn't support the homeless shelter with a $50,000 gift, but we could go surf soup. And maybe we couldn't, maybe we couldn't give the widow down the street that had lost her husband, you know, a $10,000 gift to help her with anything. But we could cut her grass and clean out her gutters. And we did. And make her dinner, watch the kids while she goes out You can make dinner.

Dinner doesn't cost much anything to make dinner for somebody or watch somebody's kids. Like Reginald said, there's all kinds of acts of service that you can do. And honestly, it comes out of the exact same muscle, the exact same place in your heart that giving monetary gifts does. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, generous people are the ones to hold the door for you at the supermarket. Yes. You know? And I do love your heart in it, Courtney.

And I think the way I would be positioning it in my mind is, that if I make a sacrifice right now by cleaning this up, getting out of debt, so that I'm in a good place financially, you're going to be able to give more, obviously, than now, but even if you lived with debt for the rest of your life, you would always just have some change in your pocket to give the guy, versus if you were debt-free and you were on a plan and giving was one of those motivators or a priority for you, where you're going to be giving more than maybe the average person that gives, you're going to have the means to be able to do that. And even make a bigger impact for somebody, right? I mean, to go into that single mom and pay her lights for a

year. You know, you'll be able to write a check and just do that, but you can't do that right now, right? And if you live how you're living now, you'll never be able to get to that place where you'll have a lot to be able to give. So there's something about being debt-free that frees up your income, not just obviously for yourselves, but for other people of what you're saying. So you get to do even more impact when you are debt-free. You guys are always here to say, live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. So you have a better quality of life and a higher level of generosity than anyone else because you paid a price to get there.

And the biblical verse that caused us to come up with that saying is no discipline seems pleasant at the time. And listen to this from a generosity perspective, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. What's more righteous than generosity? I mean, what's more holy than generosity, not many things, you know? And so you're really touching the part of your heart that God installed, he installed the whole thing, but the part of him that's most, the part of your heart that's most like God when you're giving, he gave his only son.

We're celebrating the season. And it's what Jesus did, right? I mean, that's his example. He was serving constantly to people. And so, yeah, there is that element that is so real. That's interesting. ever gave money. I don't think he made any.

I know. I guess he did as a carpenter. I guess, yeah, he did. He had a job. Yeah. I think he pulled, I think he pulled, or Peter, somebody pulled a coin out of the fish's mouth, right? But give to Caesar what is Caesar's.

But I don't remember, there's, I don't think there's, I never thought about it. There's never, there's, it's definitely not a prevalent Bible story of Jesus, giving money. But he did give X service. Yes. Healing on the Sabbath. I mean, you know, on and on. Washing the disciples' feet. I mean, his life.

life was service to people. Exactly. And that's the ultimate of generosity. Very good. Courtney, you're going to be great. You're already great. Brett is with us in Boise. Hi, Brett. What's up? Hi. My question today is, me and my wife are about $160,000 in debt right now. Good Lord. 135. Yeah, 135 of that is student loan debt. Good Lord. On her side. And then $24,000 of that is car debt.

What's her degree in, Brett? Her degree is a bachelor's of science, and then she has a certificate in business. Bachelor of Science and what? That's, I mean, I'm looking at her diploma right now. That's all it says. It's just Bachelor of Science. What did she study? She has an emphasis on biology, I suppose.

Oh, okay. Okay. So my question was, what does she do? Oh, she works at St. Luke's Hospital, right now. Okay, what does she make? She makes about like 17 an hour. Whoa. Yeah.

Okay. And what do you make? I actually just got back from deployment. I made about $70,000 this last 10 months. But I'm going back to school right now to get an A&P certificate. So you all are broke? Yeah. Thanks for your service.

But, dude, you need some income in that house. Yeah. That's what we plan on doing. I mean, this next two years, when I go to school, I'm looking at A&P jobs. I mean, I should be making around $30 to $40 an hour. Yeah, why aren't you working while you're in school? I am working well in school. Oh.

I literally just got back, so I'm still looking for jobs right now. The way you were saying it, I thought you were quitting or weren't doing anything. Okay. So you're off deployment, but you're not out of the service. No, I'm in the National Guard, so. Oh, okay. I got. Okay. Well, we want to go to, we want to go back to school. She wants to get her master's degree, which she will be kind of in their pocket, because she can't, she can't find a job right now. She wants to get into dietetics, and she just can't find anything, and she thinks that this master's degree is going to get her job. Nah.

How old are you guys? I'm 25, and she's 23. Yeah. Yeah, a master's degree doesn't solve. it. No, no, you've got other issues going on. So, you know, I think there's a lot of possible tracks that she could take with the biology degree that was a lot better than $17 an hour. Obviously, you could have made $17 an hour without a degree. Breathing, you can make $17 an hour. So, yeah, so, no, I mean, you guys really desperately need to get your income up and then tear

through these loans as fast as possible. You've got to mess on your hands. And going deeper into debts. You bought a car you can't afford for sure. Good Lord. And going more into debt to go get a master's degree, to be a dietitian, no, thank you. Nope, nope, nope. Look at what the incomes are.

Nope. I think you've got to study your career tracks and decide where we're going to go and how we're going to pay for it. And then save up and get these debts cleaned up. You all got a mess on your hands, brother. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.