The Ramsey Show - Normal Is Broke and in Debt. Do You Want To Be Normal?

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan Ken Coleman & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: "Is it too late to save for retirement at 60?" "I can't contribute enough to our wedding fund," "Have you changed your stance on bitcoin?" "We are being forced into a consolidation loan," "Should I wait for home prices to go down?" "Is it better to invest in a target date index fund that will adjust risk as I age?" Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp ◎ Get 10% off Byrna product bundles and more! 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY 💸 Learn more about opening a high-yield savings account with Laurel Road 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at The Nokbox 💵 Learn more about Timothy Plan 🏛 Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📱 Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or send us an email. 💼 Need help with your taxes? See who we trust. 💪 Invest with confidence! Get tickets to Investing Essentials  💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🪑 Check out Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman! 🏘️ Free Tools & Resources to Reach Your Home Goals Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Welcome to the Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, with your work and in your relationships alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman, thrilled to be with you guys today. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. 888-825-5225. All right, let's start it off with Amy in Minneapolis. Amy, how can we help? Well, I am turning 61 in

two weeks. All right, that sounds exciting, early birthday. And I have been good with my money all along, but I have failed to have a retirement fund. And I'm wondering at this point what I can do so that I can retire maybe at 67. All right. Okay, so we're working with six years to retire and you have zero, George is going to walk you through this, but just a couple quick questions. You have zero or you have very little or you what's the real real here? I have? I have no retirement fund, but I do have... I have cash and I have no real debt. The only debt I have is about nine thousand dollars that I took out a zero percent interest loan and did some updates on my house. Okay, sure sounds like real debt to me.

updates on my house. Okay sure sounds like real debt to me. Well yeah that but other than that I have no debt. What kind of cash do you have? About two hundred thousand. And what's that sitting in? A couple bank accounts. Just in checking accounts or normal savings accounts making are they making zero percent? No they're're making a little bit. There's a couple of them in savings and then some of it's just cash. Okay, so we can get that money invested working for you at least. What is your income? About, I do childcare, about, it varies every year but around around like 57,000. 57,000, okay. And do you have any pension or anything like that,

any other retirement income we should be aware of? Nope. Okay. I have a life insurance, a small life insurance policy that's all I have. Okay, and are you living alone? Yes. All right. Right now, my 19 year old is away at college, but I mean he'll be here when he's not at college.

Okay, and are you a homeowner? I own my home, yes. It's paid for, no mortgage? It's been paid for for, yep, no mortgage. Good, what's that worth? I'm thinking around 280. Okay, and what are your monthly expenses? Have you added this up to see, here's my monthly budget, here's what I need to live?

My monthly expenses are about 1675. Okay, great, so here's some good news. You don't need a lot to survive. Now I don't know what your retirement plans are. I don't know if you had big dreams. We might need to change that picture based on the reality of where we're at. Right. But based on my math, you're going to need, you know, and this is not including healthcare

if there's any other needs you have, but you're talking about 20 grand a year is what you're going to be spending. Okay. So here's the good news. any other needs you have, but you're talking about 20 grand a year is what you're gonna be spending. Okay. So here's the good news. If you put the majority of your savings into the stock market, into a good growth stock mutual fund or an index fund, you would see on average over the next 20, 30 years in your retirement, 10 to 12% return.

Which means you put 200 in, on average average, again not every year, you're going to see 20 grand, another 20 grand. And so that gives me some hope that you're not going to be out on the street. But we're also not going to be eating out and going on vacations. This is going to be a bare bones retirement. Now if you could invest a big portion of your income now that you have a paid for house, how much could you invest every month from your income? Could you do, let's say, $2,000? Every month? Yes.

Probably not. I could probably do a thousand. Well you told me your expenses are about $1,600. You're taking home probably close to $4,000, right? Yeah, it just depends on the time of the year. During the summer, I make a lot more because I have way more children and then... Well, Ken can help you fill in the gaps of income. But if you have stable income, you could invest $2,000 every single month from age 61 to 67.

You'd likely have around $200,000 sitting in that investment account. Okay. So that is one option on top of the savings you have putting that into the market. I also would recommend you sit down with a financial advisor and actually crunch these numbers and they'll walk you through to make sure you're understanding where you're putting this money. I don't want you to do it because George said or Ken said. I want you to do it because Amy understands.

Right, no, and that's why I guess I've always, and that's kind of why I haven't done. I just don't understand any of it, and I've always been afraid of it, and I've watched too much American Greed, so. Well, here's, I keep thinking of this line for you. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the best next time is today.

And so I know you're 60 and you feel behind, there's probably some guilt that you could have done more, you should have done more, you should have been investing. But I'm telling you, it's not too late to have some dignity in retirement, but it starts today. We can't have the excuse any longer of,

well, I just don't know what I'm doing. Ignorance was bliss until this call. Okay, yep. I get it. Now let's talk about that seasonal income gap. What are you doing in the wintertime? What changes that you don't have enough work? I have work. I do child care.

And so during the summer, I get a full house. I have all the kids from school, school-aged children. So I have 12 kids all summer long. And then during the winter, kids go out to school and I tend to have less. And this year I chose to have a few less because I took my first grandbaby, I'm watching her, and with a baby it's just a lot more work. And so I've had less children during the years. But I do not-

Are you getting paid to watch the baby? Or is this just grandma stuff? Partially. Okay. So what would be... Not a lot. So let's say, just for sake of numbers, okay, let's say that there wasn't a drop off between the summer and the rest of the year.

How much more additional money would you make of over and above the $57,000? What do you think that that number would be if you just had the same amount of kids all year round? Probably a good another $20,000-$30,000? I don't know. Yeah, so here's that's the thing I want you to think about. George has done a great job laying out, okay, what you need to do. And here's the deal. That $200,000 is something to build on, plus your existing money, if you're putting in $1,000 a month. But I want to challenge you to just believe what you just said. Let's say, let's round down. Let's say you did something to go, okay, I'm going to be more aggressive and talking about it. There are parents everywhere around you

who would much rather have their child with you. It's probably even more affordable than what they're looking at in the marketplace. There's no shortage of children who need to be watched. So with a little bit of aggression, more intentionality, letting people know, let's say you were able to make an additional $20,000 a year over the next six years. Okay? That's a lot of money, George. Coming back to your calculator,

she can now put to maybe three grand a month away, and all of a sudden, changes your retirement drastically. It changes it. And you might need to work until 70. That's right. You get to retire when the numbers say you do, not when you just decide.

And so jump on to ramsaysolutions.com, get in touch with a SmartVestor Pro. They can walk you through the investing portion, you do not when you just decide and so jump on a ramsay solutions dot com get in touch with a smart Vestor Pro they can walk you through the investing portion and this is going to take work and you got to remember inflation is going to be that's going to be kicking your retirement in the pants so you got to get on top of this thing and start investing but just saving but George and I are both we really believe Amy you can do this I think this is extra income and I do think this is tightening under the expenses as well and you can get there. All right, quick break. We'll be right back. This is

The Ramsey Show. Taking care of your health doesn't have to cost a fortune. That's why Field of Greens is in my house. Field of Greens is made from fruits and veggies selected by doctors to support your heart, liver, kidneys, and metabolism. And here's the best part, they're so confident your doctor will notice your improved health, they offer a money back guarantee, no questions asked. Try today and get 15% off at fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey, promo code Ramsey, fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey. www.fieldofgreens.com www.fieldofgreens.com Welcome back America, thrilled to have you with us

alongside the incomparable and the very very sharp dressed man George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman so kind. 888-825-5225 is the phone number taking your money questions and your income questions.

So George is our money resident, I might pipe in. I've been known to do it. You've got a lot of great thoughts. But I'm more in the win with the income, right? Are we winning at work so that we have the opportunity to make more money? So if you're feeling stuck professionally, we're gonna equate that to our financial situation.

So I'm here to help on that as well. Ken will help you afford eggs. That's right. That's the goal today. Have you noticed? Do you eat a lot of eggs? I went out and bought eggs last night. All right.

And I was shocked. I told the cashier. I said, I thought egg prices were supposed to be jacked up. This is a reasonable price. I even opted for the pasture raised. Did you? I really went all out. You went high end.

$4.99. Very reasonable. The cost of eggs are actually moving up. So we'll see what happens, but they're really good for you. Let's go to Jason in Houston, Texas. Jason, how can we help today? Hey guys, how are you?

We're having fun. What's going on? Yeah, so I want to try to be succinct and not really reveal too much, but as much as I can. What do we need to know here? Do we need to know here? Do we need to be careful on how we ask follow-up questions? I'm beginning to think your real name isn't Jason.

Anything you need to ask. Basically, me and my fiancee are getting married. We're just doing a one-on-one ceremony, me and her, in about a month. And we had decided to fund this ourselves. And our budget was around 10 to $12,000. Um, in the initial discussions, I was going to bring X amount of money. Um, she was going to bring a significant portion. So I was going to bring around $2,500.

She was going to cover the rest. Um, when we had this discussion and we planned this, I had decided, um, or excuse me, I had budgeted based on projected income for the month of January and how much margin I would have on my budget. Um, that did not come to fruition and it's created a string because I'm not able to contribute the portion that I thought I would be able to. I'm in a very tight budget right now. Um, I will follow that up with, um, I am bringing debt into this marriage. From the second, uh, we'd even discuss marriage.

She's had a full look into my finances. She sees what I spend as no, nothing good. And, and we have agreed that when we combine our finances when we get married that we're gonna do the marriage we plan to bring that that to attack the debt that I'm bringing into the marriage so a couple things there is a lot of shame and guilt on my end too and on her end I think there might be some not necessarily resentment building but I don't want that to happen and yesterday there was kind of some expression of that and well, let me ask let me ask a quick question She's fully aware of your finances and which means she's probably very fully aware of your work and how you get paid and that

Sounds like you had no control over this income. So she's had no control over this income so she's disappointed yes but does she understand the circumstances by which the money hasn't come in like you thought it would yes yes and that's that's kind of the question all right second question second question I thought and I don't know if George you heard this so I'm coming to you Jason I thought you started off the call by saying we're having a one-on-one wedding. Yes, sir. We're open. So why is it $12,000? So why 10 grand?

Yeah, well, I don't understand. This was the kind of a dream that she had and what we had thought we could budget for. And so there's been deposits placed, airline tickets placed, SIN money already spent. That would be really hard to sort of bring up and be clear. Okay, so hold on a second. Hold on. So she had a vision for a wedding, and now we can't afford it, so now we're opting for the one-on-one at the courthouse? Well, no. It's still affordable, just the portion that I was supposed to afford.

I just don't understand, George, why we're spending 12 grand. Let's say you can't give this $2,500, you can't give a dime. What changes about this wedding a month from now? What can't we do that we said we were going to do? That's exactly my question. We can do it, and for our conversation last night, the sort of thought is just get it done, but my question is more relational. I don't want there to be any Harvard resentment or doubt from her because I was not able to uphold my end of the bargain. Here's the third question.

Is there a pattern of you making a promise, telling her something and then it not coming to fruition? Are you letting her down? Is this the first time this has happened? As far as I know, absolutely not, no. And 100% transparency, no. Have you told her about this yet? Just being honest with her and say,

hey, listen, I was expecting this income. Oh yeah, they talked about that. So she's already, but she expressed some, you know, disappointment, she was upset about it and she's obviously pretty, you know, there's a lot of emotion already with planning a wedding and doing this, even if it's just one-on-one, it's a big life change.

And I think this just probably triggered something inside of her going, this man, is he gonna be able to provide? Is he going to be able to be the partner and leader that I need him to be? So it's probably causing some bigger questions in her mind. And I think that's worth a second conversation with her. Okay. And it's the same, I'm feeling as well. And that's, I guess, I'm just curious about how to

approach that. Well,'s, I guess, I'm just curious about how to approach that. Well, okay, I think that... What possibly I can do between now and then to... Okay, so we can't really answer that until we understand what happened. What is the nature of your job? Or could you share with us briefly the circumstances that led to you not getting paid what you projected that you might. What happened? Very, yeah, very easily. I do two things. I'm a field inspector and I sell real estate. And my field inspection job is my main source of income. I make basically just enough to pay my bills to get by with that. And then real estate, I switch brokerages back to a

brokerage that I have been affiliated with before. So when I made this change, we discussed it and said, Hey, you know, I can need to focus my attention at this real estate and see the benefits from that three to six months from now. I've done that before. I know what it looks like, or I can in the immediate next three months, go get a job doing whatever on the side to stack cash for this allotment. And we decided that the first option was, was how I would proceed.

Um, there was about a 15 or about, excuse me, a $2,000 of jobs through this field inspection job that I do that I was anticipating and told what happened in January and that money was ear and told would happen in January. And that money was earmarked for the, and that work never came to fruition through the company that I'm working with. Okay, so you have another month to go. Is this wedding in March?

Yes, sir. Okay, so you can go do a side gig, you know, one of these, you know, kind of a Instacart, Uber Eats, whatever it is, you can go sign up for one of those and go make 500 bucks a week until the wedding. Okay. And that is my thought. Do whatever it takes. I think that'll prove to her that you're serious about this. Yeah, I get it. George, that's a great suggestion. Jason, honestly,

bro, you've got some self-belief issues. Okay. So that's going to need to be dealt with, number one. But the best way to kind of deal with this, you're down in the dumps. Dude, you sound like what maybe a balloon that's lost all its air would sound like if it were talking. That's what you sound like. And I'm not making fun of you. I'm saying that's what it sounds like. You sound so deflated. But George is right. Bro, you can make $2,500 between now and that wedding day and I would

start doing it. Okay. Now, sell something. If you can't sell something and come up with $300, go sell it for somebody else. Go to all your friends. I mean, I'm telling you, bro, like, this is your chance to feel good about yourself. I understand why you're deflated. I mean, I'm telling you, bro, like this is your chance to feel good about yourself. I understand why you're deflated. But man, this is an opportunity for you to go, wait a second, I can earn $2,500 between now and wedding day, and I'm going to absolutely die trying. And I'm going to do it. I'm going to find all the ways to do it. And that's all I'm doing. I'm waking up going, I've got a, you need a poster board in your bedroom, on your mirror looking at some type of a thermometer

that people do, like $2,500 or bust. If there's 35 days for the wedding, say I'm gonna make a hundred bucks every day no matter what, come hell or high water. Yeah, so I mean, let's go. And then here's the deal. And then enter into this marriage, all in with your wife to be, on the baby steps.

How can we, let's give them a wedding gift, George. What should we do? Ooh, I love it. I think Financial Peace University for the two of you would be great, along with Breaking Free from Broke for you specifically, Jason. Read the Margin is Breathing Room chapter.

I've got 10 ways to make more, 10 ways to spend less. If you do both of those things, you're gonna find that margin to save up. And I want you to have that next conversation, not with a mopey attitude, but with optimism, with an excitement, with an enthusiasm that she goes, Oh my gosh, this is a new Jason. That's right. And tell her, I'm going to come up with a 20, a hundred bucks, babe. Don't worry about it. I may not see much of you, but it's going to be a great wedding. This

is the Ramsey Show. we constantly tell ourselves. And none of us can go back and change any of our old stories, but the world is waiting to see what each of us is going to write next. As we enter 2025, I encourage you to examine your old stories and be intentional about the new stories that you're going to write. And I'm not talking about making goals that are going to be long gone by February. I'm talking about writing new stories that will change your life and the lives of those you love for the better forever. If you're like me, therapy can be a great place to explore the old stories and heal from them and begin writing new ones. If you're thinking about starting therapy, I want

you to consider my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is a hundred percent online therapy and you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with the licensed therapist and you can switch at any time for no extra cost. So start writing a new story this month with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash deloney. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. Phone number is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225.

Hey, it's time for our question of the day brought to you by our good friends at Why ReFi. Now, you know we don't recommend refinancing on everything, but for Distressed Private Student Loans there's Yrefy. We trust Yrefy because they help you with a low fixed interest rate that you couldn't get anywhere else to help you stick to your budget and get out of debt. Learn more at Yrefy.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey.

It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Felix in North Dakota. Bitcoin has been going through the roof recently and it looks like it's becoming more and more of a stable investment. Do you now recommend it as an investment or do you still believe it's too dangerous of an investment and that people should steer clear of it?

Oh. Good question. I'm actually interested. Excited to clear the air on Bitcoin because people really want to know my opinion, said no one. Here's the deal. I've never been anti-Bitcoin. We took a call yesterday, Ken.

Young man had every single one of his dollars in Bitcoin. Had nothing in savings, everything in Bitcoin, and he had been doing really well. And he asked us, well, what's wrong with this? And I'm going, you've been alive for four days, so yeah, if you just think this is how it's always gonna be, then sure, but we've seen things. We've seen Bitcoin drop 50% in value in 2022.

It's 24-7. There's a lot of fraud and scams around the crypto world right now. It's been on a wild trend up lately, and so you're going, well, why invest in the stock market to get a measly 10% when I could get 1,000%? So what it really comes down to is what I call the three stooges of wealth,

which trips people up, especially young people. It's fear, greed, and pride. So it's the, I'm so scared, there's the FOMO of I gotta get in this now or else I'm gonna be broke forever. There's the pride of, well, I know better. There's a little bit of arrogance there. And then there's the greed of just like,

I'm not gonna settle for 12% and a slow way to wealth when I can make it a lot faster. And so with Bitcoin, it's like investing in any single stock that's been on a wild ride. You see Nvidia going up and then DeepSeek from China came out and Nvidia takes it. And there's all this just gyration and fear in the market of what anything's gonna do,

and it's why I recommend diversifying. So it really comes down to diversifying versus Bitcoin equals bad, and it's more that you got all your eggs in one basket, that's too much risk for one person to handle. And so if you wanna invest in Bitcoin, I can't say invest, if you wanna speculate in Bitcoin,

put some money in that, after you've already invested 15% of your income into retirement, into tax advantage, retirement plans, proven mutual funds and index funds, be my guest and use your fund money to do that. Knowing this is money you could burn on the table. But putting all the chips in on Bitcoin, I'm telling you, I think history is going to show that was a very risky move. Now there's Bitcoin billionaires out there who are going,

ha ha, and they're laughing from their private islands right now. That could be the case. Well, I think it's here. I think there's no question that cryptocurrency is here to stay. So as a technology, the blockchain, it's here. Yeah. And I would say Bitcoin is here. I'm not saying Bitcoin can't fall.

I'm not saying I disagree with anything you said. In fact, I agree with everything. I would say to somebody, yeah, if you want to invest in Bitcoin, I would treat it just like we tell people to go sit down with a smart investor pro and learn about the strategies so that you understand what you're doing. But I agree with you that it should be a part of a diversified strategy, not all eggs in that basket. I agree with that.

And that's just smart investing strategy. But I will say this, my position on crypto and Bitcoin early on was it's risky right now, but there will come a day and I still hold this. And I think Trump, by the way, is already rattling his saber on this. Well, he's already made a bajillion dollars doing it. He has. So of course he's a fan. I know, but I'm saying you're gonna see this become regulated just like banking,

just like the stocks. And I think when it becomes regulated, because it will on some level, some people would take issue with me on that and I'm okay with that. I am making any prediction here. But I believe that once it's regulated, I believe it becomes far more stable.

I'm not a fan of regulation as a whole, but there needs to be, it's the wild, wild west right now. No, I'm with you on that. I think there will be a mutual fund filled with different cryptocurrencies. So diversification is the answer. I agree with you, I just wanted to add that little two cents there,

that I don't think you should feel like, oh, it's stupid to invest in it. No, I think it's just like any other investment. You got to do your homework. What level of risk? Have you sit down with a good professional? So we talk about the smart investor pros that are out there, okay? And we link to them and you can go meet them. You talk with any investment professional, one of the first things they're going to talk

to you about is where are you at, where are your finances, and what's your level of risk? And so I would treat any crypto thing as a high-risk thing right now. And the other piece of this we didn't talk about is that Bitcoin isn't based in anything. When you invest in a mutual fund, it's filled with 90 to 200 stocks of actual companies

producing real products and services and real revenue you can attribute to that and therefore what is it based on? Well a lot of hype. A lot of what my buddy said and they're investing so it must be good. Well it is a currency. You are investing in an alternative currency and that's the bet. It's like gold. People that invest in gold, well you're investing in crypto. And the last thing I do is I go what are actual

wealthy people doing with their money? And what I found is most of them aren't saying oh dude you got to get in on crypto. They might be dabbling in there with a very very tiny percent of their world. They're not going all in on it and so if you want to know how actual wealthy people invest, Dave Ramsey will be unpacking that in a two night virtual event called Investing Essentials. I'll be joining him. And here's the deal, we know that if you're following

social media, you're gonna get investing advice from a 60 second TikTok reel or Instagram reel. That's dangerous. At this virtual event, over two nights, two hours a night, we're gonna walk you through how to maximize your retirement plans, how to choose the right funds, how to get the most out of your money,

how to invest with confidence. Plus, it's the only place you're gonna hear Dave unpacking his personal playbook on real estate investing, which is fascinating stuff, something he's never done here on the show. This is brand new information. You're gonna get the clarity you need to invest. So join us, March 4th and 5th,

on the comfort of your home. It's completely virtual. Tickets start at 1999. Get yours today at ramsysolutions.com events or click the link in the show notes if you're on podcast or YouTube. All right great let's go to Alicia who's joining us in San Antonio, Texas. Alicia how can we help? Hey thanks for having me. Sure what's going on? So my husband and I are trying to get out of debt. Right now we have a $26,000 car loan. We wanna get rid of that for an $8,000 2012 minivan.

But we would be rolling over negative equity if we decided to roll over, but my husband- Can you just not? Why are you trying to go into debt again? Well, that's the thing. We're trying to get out of this car loan. What's it worth? That we sold negative equity about.

Four to six thousand. Okay. So it's worth about twenty-two? Of my husband? Twenty or twenty-two? I don't know. The car is worth twenty to twenty-two grand if you sold it today. If we sold it to CarMax today, 22. If we sold it to the dealership, about 18. Well, why not sell it private party and get 25?

I don't think it would be worth that much. Well, you know, CarMax is buying it at 22 and they're gonna sell it for 28. They're buying it at a discount from you and they're going to sell it for $28,000. They're buying it at a discount from you, and so you're getting screwed on these kind of trade-in deals, and they're going to try to then sell you on a car you can't afford again. I'd rather see you sell it private party, clean it up, sell it on Facebook Marketplace for $25,000 or $26,000, and be as little underwater as possible if not break even.

The thing about private party, it just doesn't sound safe. And I don't wanna screw myself over, like selling at private party. It doesn't sound safe. You mean meeting strangers to look at the car? Meet in a public place in daylight, bring someone with you. No, no, no, not like that. I mean like legit.

If I sell at private party, I would have to make sure that Go to the bank with them. Yeah, go to the bank, ask for a cashier's check, go to the bank, have it cashed. They'll verify the funds are there. This happens all the time. It's not worth losing $4,000 over. Do you guys have any money in cash

to cover the negative equity? Yes, we have. Yeah, we have about $3,000. Okay, that will clear it. You still don't have the 8 for this minivan, so we need to figure out what we're going to do. That's going to a local credit union to get the difference so that you can get a cheaper car. But I think we still need to figure out how we get an even cheaper car for now until we

can upgrade to the $8,000 minivan. But I would not roll the negative equity. Bad plan. This is going to keep you where you're at. Thanks for the call, Alicia. You can do this. I've done this so many times over the last couple of years. Don't be scared. Buying cars for my teenagers. Selling. All right. Quick break. We'll be right back. He's George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman.

This is The Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? is the Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession? Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball.

That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data and when you're closing the books in days, not weeks,

you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us America, alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman.

Triple eight, eight two five. Five two two five is the phone number. Hey, there's a lot that happens in your mind, in your emotions and just activities when it comes to buying and selling a house, and that leads to feeling paralyzed, feeling overwhelmed. And so we created Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base, right? Just kind of a safe place. What's there at the Ramsey Real Estate Home Base? Calculators, start to finish guides, how-to articles, a podcast, a book, and even a video course all with steps that you can take to navigate the buying or selling process. So if you're ready to take the next step,

do it with confidence. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash real estate. ramsysolutions.com slash real estate or you can click the link in the show notes if you're watching, listening on YouTube or podcast. Let's go to Ottawa, Canada now. Sue is there. Sue, how can we help? Hello. Hello. How are you, Sue? Hi, thank you. I'm good. Thank you for taking the call. I'm calling from Canada, Ottawa.

So I have a couple of collections. I think it's seven. Yeah, I have seven different collections. Three of mine, four is mine, and three is from my husband. Are you talking about collections? Yeah, we are in collections right now. The amount is not too much. It's around $14,000. Each around $2,000. And so last month, my husband started working full time. We are new in Canada, we came as a refugee.

And first three years we didn't speak English. So all three years we were just educating ourselves to speak English. Where are you guys from? To get a better life here. We are from Turkey. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So, first three years we got an English course from college, so we had all sorts of, like, student loans.

But it wasn't the best course because it wasn't an academic course, but we didn't even speak English. It didn't help us. It didn't help you actually get a career? No, it wasn't for a career. It was just to learn English, but we chose the wrong option, to be honest. Okay. In three of three English courses, we chose to go to college, and we couldn't finish the

course because it was a heavy academic English course and we didn't even speak English. You couldn't understand it enough? No, nothing. So our community, our Turkish community gave us a bad advice and they told us we have to get two cars on loan and do Uber during those times. That's what we did and everything went even worse. So I sold my car and my husband finished her loan this month. Yeah, this was the last month. And during that time, we find a free PSW course from government. We take that course, first me, and then I start working.

And then my husband, so last three years, we were just having one income coming in the home. So we just avoid all the debt. And this month, my husband started getting his salary. So our income is doubled. I'm earning around $3,500 and he earns around $4,000. This is the money comes to our account. This is per month.

That's your take-home pay after taxes get taken out. Yes. Wonderful. So you're making $7,500 take-home every month. Yes. And our, how're making $7,500 take home every month. Yes. And our how do you say outcome? No, income expense. Our expenses are around $2,500 but also the food so we can say $35. Okay. So $3,500 a month and that means you should have $4,000 left over if you're doing

a written budget, which is just a plan for your money, where you go income minus expenses, here's every dollar we're gonna spend. It looks like it. Like, this was the first month we got the money, so we decided to start paying everything and fix the five years mistakes we did it. But when I called the collection agency, they told me that I have to pay in full amount today and the next solider will come next Friday and I have to wait. So they told me that I have to call a debt consolidation company.

No, don't listen to them. They're lying to your face. They're trying to bully you into paying. You don't listen to them. They're lying to your face. They're trying to bully you into paying. You don't have to do anything. So I told them that I will pay it in six months, the whole seven collections, but they all want me to pay this month. They keep calling me ten times a day. It's killing me right now. So we decided to talk with the debt right now. So we decided to talk with the recovery agency just to learn what is that. And they made resettlement all the debts and they said that now it's $10,000. They sent us the paper, thank God we know English now so we can read it, and it says that we will

pay back $26,000 back. Yeah, these companies are scummy. They're scamming you. Yeah, so we said no. But now, since yesterday, my phone is, like they keep calling me because they got my number. Don't answer. Every single agency. They're trying to pressure you to get so stressed that you'll do anything it takes even taking on a debt consolidation. Sue, don't answer the calls. You talk to one person in a supervisor role at all these different places and say, we are going to pay you back, and this is when I'm going to do it. And you get it in writing.

Say every Friday, I'm going to call you with an update, but don't call me, I will not pick up. But you will hear from me. You don't have to answer their call. They are not pick up. Yeah, you know you will hear from me You don't have to answer their call. They are not the law But they told me that there will be legal Legal Insecret, I don't know that listen if they want to take you to court over a $2,000 debt. So be my guest

It's gonna cost you more in lawyer fees than it will what I owe you. They are threatening you So you let her know hey, I'm trying to pay this off aggressively. Here's my plan. Here's what I can do and when. Put the ball in your court. Don't let anyone bully you. Don't let them take advantage of you. Don't fall for these debt settlement companies. Don't fall for debt consolidation.

This is on you guys to pay off on your own. And you will do that with your newfound income. This is an amazing blessing. You're going to have over $4,000 a month to throw at this. You're going to be done with all of this within four months. Think about that. Oh, yeah. We did a math and it was saying six months.

If we can do it for amazing. George math says four months. You guys are going to live off of nothing. You're going to grocery shop like just enough rice and beans to where you don't need anything else. You're not going to buy clothes. We're going to really't need anything else. You're not gonna buy clothes. We're gonna really look at every dollar. We're gonna have full accountability with you and your husband.

We're not gonna spend anything we don't need to for the next four months. Can you do that? Oh, we argued that last five years, so for sure we can do that. Good. You guys are warriors. You have been through a lot, and I hate that you're getting taken advantage of after being refugees and moving to Canada. You guys have had a lot and I hate that you're getting taken advantage of after being refugees and moving to Canada. You guys have had a lot of life change, it's been really hard and

you've been grinding it out, learning a new language, entering this new atmosphere and all the while getting taken advantage of and we have to also remember we did this to ourselves. So there's a personal responsibility of, yeah, we chose to go into debt. We chose to put ourselves in this position. But you guys are getting out of this. The biggest problem, one of the biggest problem, we have one debt in collection, it's $75. Like we, I don't even know how we did that.

I can't understand. I mean, it's just $75. We didn't see it. We didn't know how to use online systems. Well, get verification. Say, hey, I need written verification of all of these debts before I pay a penny. We did all they sent us. Yeah, they sent us.

We really have that one of the credit cards. We just didn't know how to use the online system, and we thought we paid. It was four years ago. So now what they told me is it's not just about money. If I pay all these debts, my credit score will be still the same, so I have to do this long to get my credit card better. Is that true? No, no.

This is all they're doing is using tactics to try to get as much money out of you as fast as they can. But they have no, they're not going to sue you. They don't want to do that. This is a tactic. So you mean, I mean, is there anything, any money that you have that you could pay some of the stuff off today? Any, that'll get them off your back if you just pay something.

Not all of it, but something. George, I mean, I know we got the snowball. I paid two collections yesterday, the minimum ones, the $75 and $660 ones I paid yesterday. It was a big relief. It was a good start. Yeah, and get written confirmation. I never had another question. Yeah, and get written confirmation. Everything get written confirmation

and don't give them any access to your checking account. Yeah. That's the key here. And once you do that and you put the ball in your court, you're gonna feel a sense of relief and confidence that you're gonna get out of this. But do not let anyone bully you any longer. We're done with that.

Yeah, and it's really important when, you use the right word. What would you do if you were on a playground right now and somebody started bullying you, being an adult, knowing what you know? You know what you do? You'd go, knock this, knock this off, knock it off. What are we doing? This is the dumbest thing I've ever, this is stupid. You're not going to punch me. Get out of my face. And you've got to do that with these collections, folks. All right, Sue, we're rooting for you. This is The Ramsey Show. Mortgage rates have dropped, so if you're thinking about buying a home in the next year, contact your local Churchill mortgage team right now.

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NMLS ConsumerAccess.org. Equal Housing Lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027. D. one five nine one and MLS consumer access dot org equal housing lender seventeen forty nine Mallory Lane's we one hundred Brentwood Tennessee three seven zero two seven. Welcome to the Ramsey show America where we help you win with your money win in your profession and win with your relationships phone number to jump in is triple eight eight two five five two two five is triple eight eight two five five two two five is triple eight eight two five five two two five thrilled to be alongside my pal

the smartly attired and and well equipped Financial guru he is the one the only impressive George camel with a K I'm a lady with you can you're late elated that's a good word Let's see if we can keep that going. Looks like we're going to Ken in Denver, Colorado. Oh, there's a lot of Kennergy right now.

Ken, how can we help? Hey guys, can you hear me okay? Yeah. You didn't acknowledge the Kennergy joke at all? Just went right over your head? Not interested? I did. I guess I'm processing how much Ken is in the room, I guess.

Basically, my question is, so right now I feel really stuck in my career. My wife and I are in the middle of baby steps too. How much do you have left? We've got about 50 grand left. I am in the middle of baby steps too. How much do you have left? So we're better to get through that. We've got about 50 grand left. Okay. So we're plugging away. Right now I feel like looking to change careers

to find something that I have a growth plan on. Okay. And my job currently, I feel like I've hit the ceiling without having to move away. Tell us what you do. So I work for my state agency. I am a equipment trainer. Basically I help new employees obtain their CDO license and help with other heavy equipment. Okay gotcha And what do you make? So right now I make 57 a year. Okay, all right. Well, let me just tell you, the reason you feel stuck and that you've hit a lid is

because you have. Nothing against state employees. I have been criticized before when I say state government is kind of a dead end, and it is. It's not because I think it's bad, it's because it is. And I used to work for the governor of Virginia. So, geez, people, when I say facts, understand what I'm saying. And Ken, you can agree, you're stuck because it is a state agency and there's only so many rungs on the ladder, correct?

Right. All right, great, so you're stuck. But the great news about this is is it's not because of you. It's because of where you are. So the question becomes, where do you take all this experience you have up to this point in your career and all the skills you've developed, how do you transfer those to the, let's just say, private sector so you don't have to leave the Denver area or surrounding area and you can go, okay, I can step in and I've got not only a chance to make more money, but I've got a ladder of growth. So what does that look like? If I were to just say to you, Ken, based on your skill and experience to this point,

what would be the low-hanging fruit or the the obvious choices to at least kick the tires on? I mean, for me, it would involve some type of teaching, whether it's adult teaching, whether working within an organization or a company that needs someone to help train the employees on their processes. Great. That's what I do. And that's one thing I love about my job. It's not that, you know, I love what I do. I have a great job, but just, you know. You just have no, you have no room for advancement and that is a depressing place to be.

Right. The only room for advancement at all would be supervising and I would not be doing what I do. Exactly, so you exchange a little bit of extra money for doing something you don't enjoy. So you've already nailed it. So I love this. So we want to write down, if you and I were in a room with a whiteboard, I would write down training slash instructing. That's, if we can get a gig where you spend the majority of your day training or instructing, you're going to be a pretty satisfied fellow, right? Yeah.

All right. So we start there. So now we start to look in and around Denver. We go, okay, what are anything that's got the word trainer, instructor in it? This could be across the board a lot of different industries. You acknowledge that? Yeah well so I'm not from the Denver area, that's the closest big town. So I'm like from like southwest Kansas. Oh okay take everything I just said and just

delete the word Denver, but the point is is you're looking in your area. Let's say a 30 mile radius, right? Yeah, let's look and so you've got to see what's out there and see what is transferable for you And I would tell you that your skill set in your experience is Transferable to probably a lot of different places and so the story the narrative is great too, Ken Why are you considering leaving your current job? I love it. I love the work, but I'm in state government. And so there's very little opportunity for advancement.

The only advance would be into a role that's not doing this. And so I'm ready to move into the private sector. That's a great answer. George, isn't that a great answer? That doesn't sound flaky. No. And it also sounds impressive. You've been trained by the state

and so we got some credibility there. You got a long track record, good performance reviews, correct? Yeah. Let's go. That's what you're looking for. Now, I wanted to jump in right away, but now I wanna give you a chance to ask any questions

around what I've said, because that's what I wanted you to hear right out of the gate. That's where you would start. I'm not saying you're limited to what advice I just gave, but you would certainly start there. So what questions do you have that we've not answered? Well, so my other, I guess part of the question would be during us going through baby step two, would that be the good time to switch careers? Sure, as long as there's no interruption of income.

Okay. If it's gonna mean going back to school and not working and going to zero dollars, then no. But if this is something where you could do this on the side, get the training you need, and do it on top of, or make that, instead of a leap, it's just a little jump, then we're talking. Yeah. And then what's your wife's income? So my wife is a teacher so she gets about $47,000 a year. Okay so you

guys are making about $110 gross per year? Yeah about. And on the current trajectory how long will it take to get out of debt from here? Last I checked, it'll take us a little bit over a year because I work a side hustle as an interim pastor. Okay. So we're able to put most of that to the debt, so we're able to probably be able to get that done in just over a year. So I would continue to do that as a side hustle, do as much of it as you can, figure out what

training is needed to move into the private sector, if any, and then pursue that, you know, all that at the same time as you get out of debt. Okay. It sounds like you have, you know what you need to do is just the confidence of going, should I make this move into maybe the private sector? Yeah. Absolutely. You've got a few years of experience at this job, right? Yeah, I got about three and a half at this position. I've been in the state for about 11 years now.

Okay. Yeah. You're just doing a search for training, instruction, instructor work, and seeing what all is out there. And I think there might be some contract work you could pick up right now before you even decide what's the next full-time move. That's what I would be looking for. Just to get momentum in baby step two. But here's the deal, you're gonna be okay. Yes, you can make the transition,

but you make the transition when you step off of one boat right onto the next boat, all right? No jumping out into the water. Yeah, yeah, you got this, Ken. Let's go, man. I need some Kennergy out of you. I'll give you the last word. Are you confident?

Are you confident now? I'm getting there. All right, my man. He needed a little Kennergy, George. That's all he needs sometimes. Yeah. I think that's my allotment for saying that word. Yeah, we're done.

Notice I stopped. I think that's like three or four times saying that word. Yeah, we're done. Notice I stopped. No, it's over. I think that's like three or four times too much. This is The Ramsey Show. Have you gotten one of those texts recently claiming to be the USPS with some sketchy link to update your address? It's annoying and a little terrifying. And you probably think to yourself, I should do something about this. But where do you even start?

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If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro today. That way they can take the stress off your shoulders once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But don't wait, Ramsey Trusted Pros can book up fast. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash tax pro to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramsysolutions.com slash tax pro. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled that you are with us alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number is triple eight, eight two five, five two two five.

Let's go to Austin, Texas and Jake is waiting for us there. Jake, how are you? Good, how about them? We're having a good time. We can't hear you real well. Give me another little for us there. Jake, how are you? Good, how have you been? We're having a good time. We can't hear you real well. Give me another little sound check there. Hello, can you hear me now? Oh, there we go. I don't know what you did. The flick of the wrist, man. Nice move. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you all so much for having me. Quick question. I am just curious. my financial advisor is recommending that I open a whole life plus 100 life insurance policy. Of course.

And so I would just love y'all's wisdom and input on that. Well here's the simple wisdom, fire them. You don't have a financial advisor, you have an insurance salesman posing as a financial advisor. Yeah, so I guess the situation is they are recommending to open this to supplement income if the market is down. No, no, we know all this, Jake. We know how the scam works. We're just telling you it's a scam. Yeah, so saving you a little bit of time, anything you tell us that they told you, we've heard. Yeah. So George is feisty today, very feisty.

I just hate, I believe you ate. You ate and left no crumbs, is that what the kids say? Yeah, yes, ate and left no crumbs, thank you for that. I'm trying folks, I'm really trying. I hate nothing more than when people get ripped off. And I'm glad you're catching this before you jumped into it, and we have to tell you, cancel the whole life policy and fire your financial advisor.

And so I understand what they're telling you. Here's the key. Any good financial advisor would tell you, you should not mix insurance and investing. If you wanna invest, be my guest. If you want insurance, get you some term life insurance. But you should not mix the two. It's a very crappy product.

Just the internal cost of this thing could implode eventually because of how expensive it is and how high the commissions are for the insurance agent. And so they don't have your best interest at heart. That's the bottom line. And any financial advisor who's worth their salt would tell you, oh, Jake does not need whole life insurance. He needs to invest in XYZ fund.

And so they should be, I don't know where you found this person. Is this an old buddy of yours? Mutual, one of their like sister companies. Okay. I would say no thank you and I'm gonna actually pause and I'll circle back when the time comes and then just never circle back. You would do it as politely as you need to

and if you want a trustworthy financial advisor, jump onto ramsaysolutions.com and click on trusted pros and I can guarantee you they're never gonna be pitching you whole life insurance. You just gave me a great idea for a segment that James will never approve. Hit me. Pitch it.

We could do old school shock jock kind of radio but nothing shocking and we would be on with Jake. Listen, hear me out. We would be on with Jake right now and we would have James and the fancy, they're all smart back there, and they could dial up this guy's advisor. Oh, we hear it live.

And the guy answers, Jake's on the call, we're over here, and Jake goes, hey, so-and-so. Listen, I'm getting back to you on the proposal. I got a couple guys with me on here, and you and I now jump in and we go, hey, so-and-so. It's Ken and George from the Ramsey show, and we just had a great talk with Jake, and Jake has authorized us to say this to you. No thanks. And we hang up the phone. That's it, we do it for him. It's not ugly. Yeah, we could be kind. I'm sure, but you just said no thanks,

and I like it's no thanks. I'm down, Ken, I'm down, let's do it. Do you like that? I love it. It's not unkind, and we're not trying to be rude, but it's a kind of you're fired, but it's like, by the way, you're on the Ramsey Show and no thanks.

I'm just impressed James liked one of your ideas you know how rare that is? Well to be fair to James my ideas are not necessarily very easy for him to like. Ken's eaten food on the show several times so I'm pretty sure I don't turn down Ken's ideas that much. I know I'm actually making James out to be he's very nice he's one of the nicest people on the play. No I thought it was fun James I really didn't think it was a serious pitch, but if we could do that, I do think it would be entertaining. Because here's why I'm saying this.

Jake calls. Here's what's going on. How many times do we get that call in a given month about whole life? Probably five, five or six at least. But this is an industry that still thrives. They're still out there. And boy, if you've ever heard Dave talk about whole life, holy smokes.

I mean, when we get a whole life call. Oh my gosh. When he calls, I put a helmet on. I think whole life hurt Dave as a child. There's that level of anger and trauma involved. Anyway, no thanks, Jake. George gave you, I liked those very kind, because you're a classy guy. Yeah, I don't wanna be a jerk. No thanks. That. George gave you, I like those very kind, because you're a classy guy.

Yeah, I don't want to be a jerk. No thanks. That's our new thing. No thanks. Kathleen is up next in Chicago. Kathleen, how can we help? Hi, I am, thank you for taking one of my call by the way. I am currently living with my daughter while I'm looking to buy a house and living with my daughter while I'm looking to buy a house. And what I've been looking at, it feels like the prices are way high for what the houses are. You're breaking up on us, Kathleen.

Speak directly into your phone. Kathleen, I don't know if you're in a bad cell zone, but we can't hear you. Let me come closer to the window. I'm by the window, can you hear me now? I was gonna suggest that, but I didn't wanna be too bold. So you feel like house prices Can you hear me now? I was going to suggest that, but I didn't want to be too bold. So you feel like house prices are very high right now and you want to buy a house. What's

the question? The question is, should I go ahead and throw all my money into the house or should I hold off and wait for a housing bubble if there is in fact one to burst while we recover with our energy production and reduce regulations. Wow. You're very trusting in... Well Kathleen, let me tell you what Kathleen is. Kathleen is paying attention to the headlines, aren't you Kathleen? You're in the news. Well I'm watching it for sure. I know. That's where that comes from, George. Tell her about the bubble. The bubble, we talked about this when last time this came up, which was around kind of post-COVID.

Everyone was freaking out and we did a whole real estate event talking about, hey, there's not going to be this market crash. It's not going to be 2008 all over again. And there's a lot of reasons for that. We covered it in the event. The TLDR on this is I would not wait. I would not sit on the sidelines waiting, hoping for some bubble.

And here's how I know that. If mortgage interest rates go down, what's going to happen? It's gonna cause more buyers to flood the market, right? Correct, correct. What happens when more buyers flood the market? Prices don't go down, they go. They go up.

Exactly. Right, right. And so I don't see a drastic change in home prices. We've seen a little fluctuation here and there. And I think you're going to look back six years from now and go, oh my gosh, why did I wait? That house that was $600 is now $750. And so the right time to buy a house is when you're financially ready.

So when you said I put all my money, what does that entail? Well, I shouldn't say all my money I have I'm retired and I have my retirement investments And that's set aside that to not be touched Okay, but this is money that I have from when I sold my last house. Okay, how much are we talking? We're talking 350 350 thousand and how much is the house that you would like to buy? I'd like to buy a house for $350,000, but they are not looking like anything I can actually live in over the long course. I want something that I can retire in, that I can age in, age in place.

Okay, so what would that cost? Is it $400, so what would that cost? Is it 400, 450, 500? Yeah, it's looking like, to touch it, it's 400. Okay, so let's say you took out a $50,000 loan. Could you afford the payment on that with your retirement income, where it's 25% or less of your take-home pay? I believe so, yes.

Then I would do it, and I would pay it off, and in a few years it'll be gone. I mean, most people have car loans bigger than that. And so taking on 50 grand to get into a house now before it becomes a $500,000 house four years from now, I'm going to do that. I agree. So you don't have a moving target on your hands. I agree.

That's a smart play. Thank you, thank you. That's the lesson of inflation. And you wonder, well, okay, which side should I be on, the inflation or the bubble first? Yeah, I just, I don't have a crystal ball. And so I live my life like I'm getting control of what I'm in control of. And I hope they change the regulations and that we're flooded with more supply in the market and that helps the home, the housing market as a whole. But

I don't, I don't put a feather in my hat. I gotta live my life. Yeah. And Kathleen, here's, this is a little extra advice you didn't ask for. I'd look at your cell phone carrier. I might switch carriers. That's a good call, Ken. You don't wanna be near the window all the time. You deserve better cell signal in retirement.

That's all I'm saying. I agree. You don't wanna have to be stuck in one place of the house just to make a good call. So I think you deserve better. I'm not calling out any- We need to look into wifi calling on the show. Is that a thing, James? Maybe. I gotta look calling out. We need to look into wifi calling on the show. Is that a thing, James?

Maybe I gotta look into it. He's going to look into it. We've put, we've, we've, we've pushed way too much. We need to settle down. Hey, quick break. Don't go anywhere. People are lining up to get coached up. You don't want to miss it. This is the Ramsey show. For free tools and resources to help you reach your home goals, go to ramsysolutions.com slash real estate or click the link in the show notes. You know every year I hear the same excuses for why people don't get the life insurance they need to protect their families. So this year let's clear the

air and look at the facts. Most people are concerned about price but term life rates have never been lower. Having 10 to 12 times your income on a 15 or 20 year plan is in many cases just plain cheap. Second, life insurance through your work is not enough, especially since these plans go away if you change jobs. You need to have your own policy so you're not without protection when your family really needs it. Third, stay-at-home parents need life insurance, especially

those with young kids. People don't realize how quickly the costs add up without someone at home taking care of things. So no more excuses folks, get the protection your family needs. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. They've been my choice for all my insurance for over 25 years and are the only people I trust. Hey guys, I've got a big announcement. George Camel and I are bringing back Investing Essentials, our two-night virtual event deep diving into investing and real estate. Learn step-by-step how to get the most out of your 401k mutual funds and real estate investments because there's no better time to get the clarity you need to invest with confidence.

Watch live on March 4th and 5th. Get tickets today at ramsysolutions.com events. Welcome back America. You're joining the conversation about you, your life, how to win with your money, winning your profession, win with your relationships here on The Ramsey Show alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. Phone number is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Detroit and William is there.

William, how can we help? Hey, how's it going guys? We're having a blast. Let's go to Detroit and William is there. William, how can we help? Hey, how's it going guys? We're having a blast. How can we help? Yeah, so I'll get right to the point. So me and my wife, first off, huge fans of the show.

We've been doing the baby steps for about a month now. We're totally sold out, changed our life, changed everything about us. But I guess, yeah, the issue that we're having is we've been attending a church for about 10 years, 10, 11 years, somewhere around there, and well, our pastor isn't aligned with this viewpoint of debt that we now have, and we're just wondering how to navigate that. Because, like I said, it's changed everything about our life. When you say he's not aligned, has he from the pulpit talked about debt?

Let me think. From the pulpit? No, but I have a close relationship with him. I know his viewpoints and the way the church structure is. And I'm not hating on him. I love the guy. He's done so much for me, but it's mentally straining. His mentality is you'll always have debt. Debt's a part of life, right? Wow.

Has he read a book out there? It's called The Bible? Has he looked into that? Yeah. Okay. How does he reconcile, you know, Proverbs 22, 7, the borrower, slave to the lender? Yeah, like I said, I don't think he's preached a message on debt or used that passage. I think, you know, he just, you know, just like everybody else, you know, looks at the world we live in and, you know, everybody uses debt, you know, they think they leverage debt or whatever.

Okay, let me throw another one at you. Be not conformed. You know that one? To the pattern of this world, be renewed by the...does that not ring a bell for him either? That we shouldn't conform to culture and the stupidity of it? No, I totally get what you're saying. Okay. I'm not a pastor. I don't have a theological basis for this. These are just spitballing Ken. Listen, you're dropping scripture, George.

There's no shame in your game. Here's my question. So, William, the pastor is not...you're not calling because the pastor is preaching this and trying to lead the flock and all this. He's not anti you and your wife being a part of the baby steps and FPU and all that stuff. It's just when you guys are having conversation, you're kind of on fire and you're talking about all this and this is just kind of two dudes talking and he just kind of glibly throws out, yeah, you know, and this kind of just bothers you a little bit. Is that what I'm

getting? Yeah, because it's different than a friend, you know, he's my pastor and I love the guy. Yeah, but here's my question. What is your question for us? Yeah, I don't, you know, it's... so for me, me and my wife now, this is become part of our doctrine, you know, for me, because I've struggled for so many years when me and my wife got married, ever since we got married, debt has been such a huge thing for us. It's kept me up at night, you know, everything you guys talk about. And then we started the baby steps and there's peace now. But to be in a position where you don't feel comfortable to talk with someone, you know,

you respect because you know the response. It's just mentally draining. So are you having this conversation all the time with him? No, no, that's the thing. Like I said, we just started it. I haven't really brought it up to him. Yeah, I don't know. Okay, so here's what I'm trying to get at. So William, I feel you.

I understand what you're saying. However, I think you've got this thing worked up really big in your mind. And I think it's actually not that big a deal. And here's what I mean. If his view on debt as your pastor has got you to a place where you just are uncomfortable with him on other issues, it's time for you to go find another church. However, I want to point out that as a pastor's kid, that you have to decide, what is it, what does that relationship look like, what do I want it to look like, and is this something that is worthy of me leaving the church? And if it is, fine!

That is your prerogative. I got zero problem with it. But if you can still sit under his preaching, and you feel like he's leading the church in a fiscally responsible way, because a lot of churches, here's the other not-so-secret secret, a lot of churches out there that have debt and use debt, and they pay it off, and they use it to build buildings and everything else. So I'm not quite sure, you don't really have a question for us, you're just kind of going, what do you guys think? And so what I think is, is that if this is a stumbling block for you, another scripture, and he is a stumbling block for you, then remove yourself out of the path of the stumbling block.

He doesn't think he's a stumbling block. So you're not going to change his views on debt. This is a guy that knows all that scripture. He knows it backwards, forwards, most likely. I hope so. And he's glib about it. So don't let this be a distress to you. Shouldn't be. You're giving that way too much power.

George, yeah, I'm with you. I'm not saying, hey, you need to leave the church tomorrow. I'm saying if you can't deal with the incongruency and you also don't trust his leadership anymore, then I think that's gonna weigh on you just like it would in a career. If you don't trust your leadership, you think there's a lack of integrity there, it doesn't align with your values, eventually that's gonna eat away at your soul. And so I'm telling you that would be a reason to leave, but if you're like, hey good guy, theologically sound, we

disagree on debt as a tool, all right, that's a different situation. Yeah, yeah. But there's a piece of this, Ken, and my church, we inherited, there was a church merger, they inherited $7 million of debt, and they looked up and said, we're giving a million dollars in interest to lenders every single year.

What if we'd aggressively attack this as a church and we freed up that million dollars to do the work of the church? And that's exactly what they did. And now they're able to fund ministries and new projects and they're building centers for recovery and they have a whole ministry for single parents to fund car repairs and furnish cars for them.

That's the kind of stuff you can do when you're debt free instead of, oh, we gotta make payments, so that's what your tithes are going to, kids. Yeah. And this is a relational issue, and I wanna hang out here for just a second, George, because I think this is important, and I think I wanna help William as best we can.

But I have very good friends, George. I mean, very good friends. I love being with these friends. But we don't agree on some stuff. I mean like the kind of stuff that's like big stuff. And if we were to constantly talk about that, it would create a real tension. But I have found we don't need to talk about it. Because here's what I know. They have thought and decided a long time ago this is what they think about this particular issue. This is their worldview on this issue. That's right. So have I. And I'm not changing it. And neither are they.

Everybody's aware. We didn't sit down and have this conversation the way I'm laying it out, but we just kind of know that. You know what? There's sort of an unspoken boundary there. We kind of know where we are, and because we value being around each other, we just steer clear of that particular topic.

And the relationship is one of my, relationship is one of my favorite friends. So I just got to tell you, I appreciate William, but there's this crusader mentality. We have it here in the building. And when people's lives are changed by the baby steps in this philosophy, you want to share that good news. It's the same as somebody coming to faith. Maybe they were an agnostic or an atheist and their life is transformed literally by this good news. And what do they want to do? They want to share it

everywhere. Why don't you get this? Why don't you get this? And not everybody gets the baby steps. Not everybody thinks it even matters. And it feels like this is the case. So it's this real, weird deal for William and a lot of us when we are so passionate and convicted about something that has transformed us. So here's the deal, not everybody's gonna get it. And that's not up to you. Well, you just gave me a light bulb moment.

I think William should lead a financial peace university class in the church, start a groundswell movement of people going, hey, we became debt-free in our personal life, what's going on with the church start a groundswell movement of people going, hey, we became debt-free in our personal life. What's going on with the church? What if we could become debt-free as a church? What could we do? And the pastor's probably not going to be against that.

The pastor just goes, yeah, my personal life. I don't mind carrying this and I don't mind this. You know, I get it. It's a tough situation, but you don't have to lose relationships over some of this stuff is my point. Do you? I mean, do you? some of this stuff, is my point. Do you? I mean, it's hard enough to live your life, you know? Trying to live someone else's?

Aye, aye, aye. I don't know. So anyway, food for thought. Thanks William for the call. You're a good man. Quick break. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show.

I still remember 10 years ago, 23 years old, I was frustrated, anxious, and flat broke. I had followed all the ways that toxic money culture had led me down from well-meaning parents and misguided guidance counselors, and it left me with a pile of debt. But I'm telling you, it doesn't have to stay that way. Over a decade, I went from broke to millionaire, and I break it all down in my new book, Breaking Free from Broke. I'm going to show you just how toxic this money system is and how you can break free from credit scores and credit cards and student loans and auto loans and investing traps and

finally live a life that you're not exhausted by a life with more margin, more options and more peace. If you want to check out the book, go to ramsysolutions.com slash store to get your copy of Breaking Free from Broke. That's ramsysolutions.com slash store. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman, so glad you're with us. Triple 8, 825.

5225 is the phone number. Our Ramsey Network app question is from Derek today. Derek writes, my New Year's resolution is to max out my Roth IRA contribution. I'm 30 years old and I want to know if it's best to contribute to a target date index fund that will automatically adjust risk as I age, or should I just invest in an S&P 500 index fund? Great nerdy question from our friend, Derek. He has been doing the research. Yes, he has. Okay, so I'll give you one man's take on this.

I am personally not a fan of target date funds, and here's what they do. They start out with mostly equities, right, stocks, and over time, they'll start to introduce more bonds into the equation, which will reduce your quote unquote risk, but it also reduces your returns. So think about this, you get to retirement age at 60, and you could make it to 90.

So for the next 30 years, you've basically stunted the growth of that account to the point where it might run out. And so here's my take, and Dave would back me up on this, it's wise to just stay invested heavily in equities. Now if you talk to your financial advisor at 16, you take into account your risk tolerance and all that, they might go, hey, let's put you in 20%, 30% bonds, whatever.

But I'm not a fan of target date index funds doing that on your behalf, especially for a young 30 year old. You wanna stay heavily invested in the stock market versus moving towards those bond funds. So yeah, S&P 500 index fund is great, growth stock mutual funds are great. In those retirement accounts, mutual funds are awesome. Like you're talking about a taxable brokerage account

outside of retirement, that's where the index funds really come in handy because they're low turnover and you'll have lower tax implications on that. So great question, Derek. I'm gonna go with no to the target date fund and yes to staying in the equities, my friend. I'm going with what he said.

A lot of nerds speak. Well done, sir. But you know, a lot of people- You should do this for a living. Well, a lot of people just, they set it and forget it. That's the beauty of target date funds and you can do worse. It's not a like terrible, terrible thing. But my take is you want to stay, I want to keep that 10 to 12% return instead of getting

a 3, 4, 5% return in retirement. I agree. Couldn't agree more. Let's go to Salt Lake City now where Bridget is joining us. Bridget, how can we help? Hello. Hi. Hi. I'm so excited can we help? Hello. Hi. Hi. Um,

I'm so excited to talk to you. Well, that's fun. A little excitement is shared. I like that little chuckle, little pre-question chuckle there from Bridget. This is exciting. Bridget, how can we help? Um, yes, I have recently become the main breadwinner of our family when my husband retired from the military. And now we are looking at how to protect our family's well-being in case I become unable to work. So we have been looking into disability insurance, but we are also pretty sure that I will have at least a couple of exclusions from coverage. So we are wondering if it's even worse.

Is it due to the nature of your career? No, no. It's just pre-existing conditions that I have been living with for two decades now. Okay, so you have a pretty good idea that this is, you're going to eventually have to stop working. Do you have a kind of a timeline? No, not like that. It's like things like attention and I have a few spine and stuff like that. So those are things that if they happen or if they become worse, Oh, I see.

get me disabled, but they may never become a issue. Of course. Gotcha. Yeah, very well might Of course, gotcha. But they very well might. Okay, gotcha. Can you purchase this through your employer? No. Okay. So if you're going to go kind of look at the marketplace,

have you gotten some quotes yet? I have talked to Zanders. Okay, what'd they say? And they're currently, all of my information is in underwriting, but they said that I should probably expect a premium around $100 a month. That sounds reasonable. Yeah, I was also surprised. But with all three of my conditions excluded.

So if you're unable to work due to those conditions, it won't be covered? Correct. Got it. Yeah, that's a tough one. I mean, your goal should be to become self-insured at that point. I would take the disability insurance for a hundred bucks a month.

And then on top of that, be working those baby steps to become self-insured over time and make sure that you have other insurance in place, like term life policy, for example. Do you have other insurance in place like term life policy for example. Do you have that? Yes, but I need to up it. I was covered for a little bit that I was making as a stay at home, home schooling mom, but I need to know that I'm the main breadwinner.

Yeah, what do you make a year? Last year, I made 71, but I wasn't working full full time so it's probably going to be more around 90,000 this year. Awesome. So you're looking at a million dollar policy and some of these you can even do no medical exam completely online. And so you might be able to, especially if you're just trying to get a little bit more on top of the one that you already have, it's going to be very affordable.

The disability insurance you just mentioned, 100 bucks a month, very reasonable. Usually it's one to 3% of your annual income, and it's gonna cover 60 to 70% of your income should you need to use it. Yeah, they told me that I can, they just told me that I can probably expect around 3,000 a month, which is perfect

because it covers our mortgage. And then my husband's VA disability and retirement just has to cover our groceries and all of those things, which should be very easily doable. Yeah. And remember, here's the point of insurance. It's just to transfer risk so that you don't have to shoulder it.

So to pay someone $100 a month, $1,200 a year, you do that for 20 years, it's 24 grand. Over 20 years. I will happily pay that for the peace of mind knowing that if something should happen, I'm gonna get that $3,000 a month for the foreseeable future. And so that's where I'm, is it worth the investment?

Absolutely, for the 100 bucks a month you're paying and for the risk that you're transferring, it's definitely worth it. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Bridget, for the call. Great question. Not every day you get to talk about disability insurance. It's fair, that's a good point.

And Ramsey, we have ours covered through Ramsey, so it's a good thing to check with your employer to see if they already cover it, if they offer it. Usually it's very affordable through your employer and that's a great way to go. And you saw Xander, she went to Xander, you got a it. Usually it's very affordable through your employer and that's a great way to go. And you saw Xander, she went to Xander, you got a great quote there that's very reasonable for a lot of peace of mind as you said. Let's go to Boston, Massachusetts, that area, that's where George hails from. Mike is there. Mike, how can we help?

Hey, good afternoon guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. I have recently, sadly I guess, come into some money through an inheritance. My wife and I's plan is to pay off all of our debts and even with that, we'll have some money left over. Wow. My specific question is we currently have a mortgage that totals about $450,000. $350,000 of that is a 20-year mortgage at 2.875% and we have about 15 years left to pay on that. The other hundred thousand is a HELOC that's about six percent right now. We're going to have enough to pay off the HELOC and get the regular you know the first mortgage down to about $250,000. Wow.

My question is, and I've asked a couple folks, I'm getting competing answers, so I'm hoping you guys were a tiebreaker. I have the possibility of refinancing that $250,000 balance to a regular mortgage at 6% but for 10 years. So what would be the point of that? To lower the payment? So if I lower the, yeah my payment's currently $3300 a month. If I refinance I can get that payment down to about $2400 a month and then I'll be able to actually put a thousand dollars per month towards the principal alone

Well, you can just do that on your 20-year mortgage. You can still add more to the principal. It's not gonna change the numbers If I well with my income, I wouldn't be able to do that. What's your what's your take-home pay? About every month Monthly ten thousand dollars. Okay What's your take home pay? About. Every month. Monthly, $10,000. Okay. I think this is reasonable. I would just attack that mortgage with a vengeance.

What you can look into is a mortgage recast, where they can just recast it without changing the terms, without changing the interest rate, and that can get your payment lower while really accomplishing the same goal. So I wouldn't refinance at this juncture unless you're gonna ROI on it real quick. Thanks for the call. That's my man's take.

This is The Ramsey Show. The right questions are the key to unlock personal and professional potential. That means if you're not where you want to be, you are not asking the right questions are the key to unlock personal and professional potential. That means if you're not where you want to be, you are not asking the right questions. I'm Ken Coleman and this is what my new show, Front Row Seat, is all about. Over my career, I've had the distinct privilege to interview successful people from all walks of life and to coach over 10,000 professionals who wanted more. What sets successful people apart is a never-ending desire to learn and grow. Each week I'll be joined by industry leaders and world-class experts to have a conversation

about how to get better, move up, and lead well in work and life. But the best part of this show is you get to be a part of the conversation. Live in studio we'll have a group of professionals just like you who have the power to ask questions and steer the discussion in real time It's an opportunity to get real answers to real questions Like how to make the right decisions have hard conversations live a balanced life and discover your next steps to grow Join us every Tuesday for conversations that are guaranteed to surprise challenge and inspire you check out front row seat wherever you get your podcasts