The Ramsey Show - Normal Money Habits Don’t Build Wealth

Starting point is 00:00:04 Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios, this is The Ramsey Show. George Campbell, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

Starting point is 00:00:35 Open phones here at AAA 825-225. Dave is in Philadelphia. Hi, Dave, how are you? Doing good, Dave and George. How are you doing? Better than we deserve. What's up? So I have my identity stolen and someone took out a student loan in my name. So I never attended to school, authorized a loan. I've already tried contacting a loan company, physically going to the college,

Starting point is 00:01:00 filing a police report and disputing it, but cadet is still showing up in my name. I was wondering if you had any recommendations for situations like this. Wow. Okay. Well, to start with, you're aware that if someone falsely uses, your name, you're not liable for the debt. You know that, right? Yes. Under any circumstances, do you pay this debt, period? Okay. Typically what happens in an identity theft situation is in order for the lender to do away with the false account, they need

Starting point is 00:01:30 some proof that it's a false account, and you're going to have to have some interaction with them. Most of the time, you're going to file a police report, and you can send them a copy of the police report that says this occurred. It's identity theft. It's fraudulent criminal. activity, but you're going to have to figure out who to get in touch with. Who's holding the loan? It's called Ed Financial, is the name of the company. Okay. So is that a federal loan?

Starting point is 00:01:59 I think, yeah, I think you can be a federal loan organization. Okay, because there's separate paths. If it's a federal loan, you should be able to go to student a.gov, and I've seen this happen before, and there's something called a false certification ID theft discharge. and you can file for that on student a.gov, and that might help the process to kind of bridge the gap between a police report and what you're dealing with. Yeah, I would do that, and I would get a police report,

Starting point is 00:02:24 and I would be in touch with the people holding the loan and badger the crud out of them until they get this thing fixed. I'm hoping you've frozen your credit since then with all three bureaus. I did freeze the credit, and I already took all the steps that you all recommended. So I was just curious if there's anything else. else you would suggest in doing it. Because, you know, I'd go back as far as, you might think it's crazy, but it made me pull my high school diploma to prove that I am who I say I am, even though someone else was able

Starting point is 00:02:56 easily get the loan in my name. Wow. How much was it for? So why are they not taking it off if you did all that? It was for $4,000. It was for about $5,000, totally. Are they giving you any reason that they haven't done away with the loan since they know it's fraudulent?

Starting point is 00:03:12 No. They haven't given me any reason that they haven't done away with it other than, you know. Incompetence? It's in the same paperwork I've already sent you, you know, kind of kind of thing. And how long has this been going on? About six months, six months since I found out about it. And you do not have, you do not have Sanders identity theft insurance, I'm sure, because you would have told me they were already handling it, right?

Starting point is 00:03:36 No, no, I don't have any identity theft insurance. Okay. Well, this is the exact reason we endorse Sanders' identity theft insurance. It's not the notification. The identity theft product that they have assigns a counselor to the case, a caseworker, and they do all the crap. And they pound the lender until the lender removes the debt from your name and removes it from your credit report. And that's the follow-through is, it's not that identity theft costs you any money because you don't owe any money. It's all the hours lost of your life that you can't get back dealing with morons that work for a student loan. company and can't get their head out of the butt. That's the problem. That's where that's where I'm at with it too, right? You know, it's been hours and hours ago. Oh, yeah. You're just going crazy. Do you buy a product like that retroactively or can you buy it? No, you can't buy retroactively, but I've sold millions and millions of them, and so they'll give me one occasionally retroactively for someone

Starting point is 00:04:31 on the air, and we'll take care of you, okay? We'll see if Xander will pick up and attach, see if they can do it. They usually can do it and attach to your situation. and have their identity theft team address this with a counselor, with a coach, with somebody, a caseworker, to work the case through and try to, maybe they can put some pressure on that you hadn't been able to as an individual. We'll give that a shot. And there are a couple things for anyone else out there going, I don't want this to me.

Starting point is 00:04:59 Freezing your credit with all three bureaus is a great start. Having Xander's ID theft protection is a great thing to have. And Dave, you cover it for every one of our team members. And I've had to actually use it. Back when I started here, I had this happen to me. I forgot about that. I had the pleasure of working with them. You were a victim. That's right.

Starting point is 00:05:15 And someone opened two AT&T accounts, Verizon accounts in my name, across the country. And I was on the... You were a cell phone king for a minute. I was like, how do you rack up $2,000 on a cell phone account? I have no idea. But Xander, they handed it all for me. They just kept me up to date. Hey, here's what's going on.

Starting point is 00:05:31 All right, it's gone now. You don't have to worry about it. Pulled the credit report. It was gone. So you're going to have to stay on top of this, Dave, to make sure that you pull the credit report, make sure it's gone. Contact the lender. everything in writing, document who you talk to, when you talk to them, what they said.

Starting point is 00:05:44 And that's the kind of hassle that ID theft causes. And this is happening more and more, Dave, these student loan scams, especially. I haven't run into it with student loans as much. So I didn't, I didn't know that. I knew it happened with everything else. And here's a weird statistic. A large percentage of identity theft is from someone you know. Like, here's the gross ones.

Starting point is 00:06:05 Like a kid turns 21. He's trying to get married and buy a house and finds out that when he was 12, his mother took out three credit cards in his name. That's gross. The closer it is to your own direct family if that's you, by the way, you're a criminal. That's called fraud, not to mention your scum because you did this to your own kid, but you're a criminal if you're doing this. And so if your mommy did this, your mommy is a criminal. Yeah, that's just because it's fraud. It's bank fraud. You're taking out a loan under false pretenses. It's go to jail time if somebody actually wanted to push it. Yeah. But they usually don't. They usually just write it off and call it a day.

Starting point is 00:06:46 Here's a sad thing. If you don't have somebody like Xander in these situations with the credit card companies, you call Citibank and go, this is not my card, I didn't open it up. The first thing they assume is you did take it out and you just don't want to pay the bill. And so they treat you as a victim like you are a predator. Like you have to prove to them that you were not guilty as charged. Exactly. You are guilty until proven innocent when you're dealing with six. Citibank or Chase or fifth third or these guys because they're just scummy. Credit card departments are horrible on this stuff. Well, I'm sure they get people who pay it anyways because they just don't want to deal with it or they're scared.

Starting point is 00:07:23 Yeah, it's typically someone that is elderly will pay it anyway because they don't want to fight. They don't want to get into the argument or someone that's young or immature and they just don't have the strength to push back and fight it through because you pretty much got to get pissed off and go at them like a cat on their face scratching their eyes out. It's a part-time job to do it. And that's why we recommend Xander. So you just turn Xander loose and you know turn the Rottweiler loose on them, right? And they take care of it. So that's what you've got to do is something like that. And I hadn't thought about it, George, but you brought it up. We haven't talked about it in a long time. If you're not borrowing money because you listen to this show and you're through borrowing money

Starting point is 00:08:06 because you're smart, then freezing your credit bureau report on all three of them today is like essential. The first time they passed that loss from 25 years ago, about three days later, I froze mine, my wife's, and all my kids, and they've never been unfrozen since. You won't need to. That thing's going on the ice age, baby. Yeah, it's better than putting your credit cards in the freezer. I'll just tell you. So, because this one actually works. And it doesn't prevent all identity theft because some credit card companies issue a card without checking your credit. And if they don't check your credit, then the frozen credit doesn't come up.

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Starting point is 00:10:31 We take over the entire ship, only Ramsey people on there doing Baby Step 4 and beyond. If you're in Baby Steps 1, 2, and 3, you're getting out of debt. Do not come. But if you're out of debt, everything but your house, you're moved from intense to intentional, that's when we've always told you to go on vacation and live like no one else. So that's why we call it, the Live Like No One Else Cruise. So it's a whole bunch of like-minded people all working on the same kind of stuff, thinking the same way, doing the world's largest.

Starting point is 00:11:01 debt-free scream. George is going to be doing nerd events on investing. I'm going to help. We're going to do some wealth planning sessions, and Rachel will be speaking, Jade will be speaking, Deloney will be speaking. Y'all are going to do Smart Money Happy Hour.

Starting point is 00:11:17 That's right, live shows. Podcasts live. Maybe even live Ramsey show. We'll see. Yeah. Oh, look at that. That could happen. Who knows?

Starting point is 00:11:23 Some Deloney after dark. That was a hit last time. It was past my bedtime. Deloney is always after dark. But people stayed up for that one. That was fun. It really is a blast. They're the friendliest, nicest, most generous people.

Starting point is 00:11:34 Even the crew on the boat was like, who are these people? Yeah. We love them. So official, you have our permission and encouragement to join us, March 14th through the 21st. We're going to go Western Caribbean, which is Jamaica, Grand Cayman, Bahamas, Cozumel. It's a great itiner. It's on a great ship. It's on Holland America, which is one of the top end, high-end ships.

Starting point is 00:11:57 This is not the cheap stuff. This is the good stuff. Dave don't do Walmart on the seas. I'll just tell you. I don't do that. That stuff makes me gag. So, no, this is like good food, good service, good people. You're going to like the whole thing.

Starting point is 00:12:12 And while they just put up a picture of the ship, it's nice. Beautiful. Yeah, there's going to be like 2,500 of us on there. There wasn't the last one of sold out. This one will be sold out. It's not yet. March 20 or March 14 through 21 coming up. And y'all, it's after Labor Day.

Starting point is 00:12:27 This is going to be here in 20 seconds. We had a blast. We had so much fun. We did pop up. We'd just be walking along and a stage was empty. And a couple of us would get up there and start answering questions and hanging out with y'all. We ended up having dinner with a bunch of you. We ended up doing all these things on the stage.

Starting point is 00:12:42 We had church services that blew up. They were fabulous. You couldn't get in. And that's on top of all the normal cruise entertainment, which was fantastic. Yeah. So we brought our own thing to it. Yeah. All their stuff is there too.

Starting point is 00:12:54 If you're bored, that's your fault. Yeah. It's, well, yeah, for sure. We just had a blast. Sharon and I'll be there. All the Ramsey personalities will be there. Natalie Grant, an absolute incredible Christian artist, will be our musical guest and others as well. So you just don't want to miss this.

Starting point is 00:13:12 It's going to be incredible. If your baby step four and beyond, be there. If you're not, you shouldn't be there. You need to be working on your stuff. We're not hypocrites. So ramsysolutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes. Stacey is in Des Moines. Hi, Stacey.

Starting point is 00:13:29 How are you? Good. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? So I just kind of wanted to talk with you guys about how do we stop living paycheck to paycheck when it seems like every time we turn around something's wrong and we have to spend money. So to give you a little bit more context on that, my husband had to have an urgent tonsillectomy back in January of this year. Before that, we had our emergency fund, but we had to use part of that to pay for a surgeon or else they wouldn't do the surgery. Fast forward to April, we finally got our emergency back up to $1,000.

Starting point is 00:14:07 And then my son had to get tubes put in his ears because he gets recurrent tube or ear infections. So again, same thing with that. We had to take out of the emergency fund because we just couldn't afford it. And in our eyes, it was for his health. I mean, he's not even too yet. That kind of trumps everything, taking care of my baby. So then felt like we were doing good.

Starting point is 00:14:34 And then our car, one of our cars, the brakes went bad on it. We had to replace the brakes, the rotors. That was just $1,200. And it seems like every time we take a step forward, we take two steps back. Hmm. Okay. Do you have health insurance? We do.

Starting point is 00:14:51 Okay. Yep. So why would a surgeon with health insurance require prepayment? I honestly don't know. They did it for my son's tube surgery as well. And we even contacted another surgeon to make sure, like, it wasn't just this one clinic. And they said the same thing. We had to pay 50% up front.

Starting point is 00:15:12 And then we could do a payment on the other one. And that's just for the surgeon. That wasn't even for, like, the hospital fee. The insurance pays for the surgeon. I don't know. That's just what they told me. Yeah. Well, maybe you just quit taking everybody's opinion about stuff

Starting point is 00:15:30 and find out what the flip's really going on. Maybe that's the emergency. I have health insurance. It pays for surgeons. What's wrong with you people? Now, if they're talking about out of your deductible that you need to pay your deductible up front or something, that wouldn't be unusual. And that could be the thousand. And the surgeon should be way more than $2,000 for a tonsillectomy.

Starting point is 00:15:54 And the tubes should be way more than $1,000, too. So in all cases, insurance did kick in. out of the deductible. Yeah, it did kick in at some point, but you've got to take control of these situations and make sure you understand and you're telling people what to do instead of them telling you what to do. And that helps in a lot of these cases, particularly the medical community, because some of them are just straight up financially stupid. And they will take you places you don't want to go, okay? So you've got to plug in and understand why these charges are there before they occur. I don't think you've been ripped off. It doesn't sound like it. It sounds like

Starting point is 00:16:33 you just had a run of things coming at you. So I don't think you have a choice. You just keep doing what you're doing, and eventually you're going to get the other side of some of these emergencies. The brake rotors were not an emergency. They were a recurring repair. Breaks go out, and car repairs happen. Do what? Yeah, apparently they were bad for a while. and I just kind of kept putting it off. That squeaking thing you ignored. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:03 Yeah. Yeah, that's what happens. And then that makes it like twice as expensive when you don't go get it done before you get into the rotors. And so. Yep. But just know that this is normal. When you are broke, it's hard to have good luck. And when you've got that emergency fund, all of a sudden you start having less emergencies

Starting point is 00:17:18 because you start taking care of things, you're ahead of things, you're proactive instead of reactive. So this is a normal part of the journey. Now, all these things at once, it sounds like the universe is against you. but just know those are in the past. We're not going to have another tonsillectomy. We're not going to need more tubes put in. The brake rotors are fixed. So now let's get ahead of this thing and move even faster so that we can stay ahead

Starting point is 00:17:38 instead of moving two steps back, like you said. Yeah. And what if all these three things had happened and you had no money? Because you were living like you used to live. Yeah, you'd really been screwed then. So thank God you're on a plan because it limited the damage it did to your life. It just damaged your plan and gave you in a month. emotional setback. I keep having to start over. I keep having to start over. But George is right. That is

Starting point is 00:18:02 normal. And the more you work on this and the more debt you get rid of, the more room you have in your budget, and the faster you're able to go back to baby step three and finish the emergency fund, the faster you're going to see these emergencies evaporate. George, I'll tell you that our experience with working with thousands and thousands of families, including my own, is exactly what you said. thing one is you get more room in the budget and so a $500 item used to be an emergency and now there's that much room in the budget so it's no longer an emergency so what qualifies as an emergency starts to go down thing two is you get ahead of things like preventive maintenance on your heating and air system you come out and have it checked once a year instead of waiting on the whole thing

Starting point is 00:18:48 to freaking blow up or you have the car checked as soon as you hear a squeak and you fix it before the, before the brake pads are worn out and you get into the rotors. And, and you keep your oil changed. And you do the, and you have a sinking fund for, and you start to have, you have money set aside for this and money set aside for that, and you have an emergency fund. And so once we got to the room in the budget and the fully funded emergency fund, I don't know if we've ever touched the emergency fund again. You just cash flow the ones that do come back. I think we've cashed the things that came up after that. And so that's the future. But for right now, Stacey's still in it to win it and she can push through. That's right. If you're already enrolled in a Medicare plan,

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Starting point is 00:20:53 Medicare annual enrollment runs October 15th through December 7th. So review your plan with Chapter Now and avoid expensive mistakes. later. To talk to the unbiased Medicare experts at Chapter, go to askchapter.org slash Ramsey or click the link in the description. That's askchapter.org slash Ramsey. Alyssa is in Phoenix. Hi, Alyssa. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I just need a little bit of direction with how we can get back on track. long story short there was a point where my husband and I were debt-free and we purchased a home then we went back into the I guess cycle of getting back into debt so the last few years we have

Starting point is 00:22:00 been trying to kind of catch up to that on top of some medical expenses that have come up throughout that time and most recently we just had a baby so that kind of added more to the medical expense So trying to figure out what should we prioritize when it comes to debt and how do we organize our finances that way. I'm curious, when you guys bought this house, were you debt-free with an emergency fund? We actually had leftover money. We both sold each property that we owned, and we did like a 20% down payment. We had like it left over like $15,000. And then it just kind of went away in less than six months.

Starting point is 00:22:42 We didn't really manage it properly. Okay. I'm trying to figure out why you guys backslid, because I don't want to happen again, even if we get out of this pile of debt. So lay out the debts that you guys currently have. So currently we have about 26K in credit cards, and then two vehicle loans, one that we're almost done with at $2,500 and another at $20,000 that we just purchased.

Starting point is 00:23:08 And then about $60,000 in student loans. I don't think you're going to get out of debt because I think you like debt. I think you like buying stuff you can't afford. You just went out and bought $26,000 worth of crap on plastic after you bought a house, went through $15,000 and bought two cars. And then tell me you want to get out of debt. You don't want to get out of debt. You love it.

Starting point is 00:23:31 Hey, perspective does change once you do have a child. Oh, now we're going to be a grown-up. Okay. Yes. Too shit. I will take that one. I will take that one. Good answer. Okay. So are the student loans there before all this? Because you said you were dead free. So did you add the student loans into the mix after the house? Yes. No, actually, that was before the house. So I kind of...

Starting point is 00:23:55 So you weren't dead free? I'm not trying to do a gotcha. I'm just trying to get the full picture. You're already done the gotcha. Dave's there. That's my job. Okay. What's your household income? So I bring in about 6K a month, and then my husband, it varies since he's like his own boss in a way, so he's a contractor, and it can vary anywhere between $2,000 to $6 grand per month for him, but it's variable. Okay. What does he make most months? Most months, I would say at least six months out of the year he would make anywhere between maybe $4,000 and $5,000.

Starting point is 00:24:30 Okay, good. I like that. Okay, so you're making $10,000 a month. And you had a baby and you want to clean this mess up. Good for you. Yes. And then set up maybe future for a baby because we're not necessarily spring chicken. We are about in our 30s, late 30s, early 40s.

Starting point is 00:24:48 Yeah, you're ancient. Yeah. I just heard Dave's feelings. Yeah. I'm sorry. It's okay. Dave's a winter chicken, I guess, at that point. But the key is here, if you want to set your kids up, you've got to set yourselves up first.

Starting point is 00:25:02 You know, when you get on that airplane, they say put your own mask on first. because you can't help anybody if you're out, down for the count. So you have to clean this debt up before you save a dime for that child. And there's plenty of time to build wealth for that child and change that family tree. No reason to panic. We have a new perspective. I think you're going to be okay. List your debts smallest to largest.

Starting point is 00:25:22 Get on a budget. Never go out to eat again until you're 100% debt-free except your house. Never go on vacation again until you're 100% debt-free except your house. All of the whining you're getting ready to do when I said that. You just need to look at your little baby and say, now I'm a grown-up. I have to take care of this baby, and so I have to sacrifice living like I'm in Congress and spending money I don't have. You're broke, and you need to clean up the freaking mess, and you need to concentrate on it

Starting point is 00:25:52 like it matters because it does. And then you promise yourself and each other that if anyone mentions debt in this house, we're going to punch each other. Never again. You can't wander back into debt. debt again. Okay, if you go through all this struggle and this sacrifice to get out, and it's going to be hard. But if you're making $10,000 a month with the debts you gave me, you can be debt free in a year, year and a half. But you're not doing nothing else. Beans and rice, rice and

Starting point is 00:26:20 beans. And whatever you were going to spend on the nursery that the little kid doesn't even know is there, you can't spend. They have a place to sleep, shut up. You need to get out of debt. Cut up the credit cards too tonight. Have you got them with you? No, we already got rid of those. So we've been working on this a couple of months. Where did they go when you got rid of them? You chop them up? Chop them up in the trash.

Starting point is 00:26:45 Okay, good, good, okay, good. Yeah, because being in the freezer doesn't count. Chopping them up is the only way they're gone. All right, and then you get an attack mode. What's your smallest debt? Out of all the debts you're talking about, you listed. You got $2,500 on a car, $2,000 on a car, you got $26,000 in miscellaneous credit cards.

Starting point is 00:27:02 Give me your smallest credit card. About 1600. Good. I want you to do that next month. Should be gone. Do you guys have $1,000 saved right now? Yes. How much money do you have saved?

Starting point is 00:27:17 We got about $2,000 saved right now. Okay. Well, then what's your next smallest debt after the $1,600? I probably save the car, just looking at my list. The $2,500? The $2,500. That's excellent. Okay.

Starting point is 00:27:32 So that's gone next month because the $1,000 is coming out of this account. and 600 is coming out of your checking account, paying off the credit card tonight. And that's your smallest debt. And then we're going to attack the car next month, and it should be gone next month. That's two payments you just freed up. And every time you do that, you're going to feel like, I can do this. I can do this because you can do this. But it's just a matter of focus.

Starting point is 00:27:53 And you just say, the future of our family tree, we want to change our family tree. We now have a noble motivation. As you said, perspective has changed. We'll lean into that, kiddo. you can do it. And here's the thing. If you add up what you're paying out and payments not counting your house payment,

Starting point is 00:28:10 if you just put that in a mutual fund from your age until retirement, you're going to be a multimillionaire. That's how aggravating what you've done is. So you've got to undo it and get your life back. And when you do that, you're going to win with millions of dollars. I mean, these two car payments alone

Starting point is 00:28:30 will be millions of dollars at their age. But you know, But you never borrow again, ever. Which means we don't own a credit card anymore. We freeze our credit. We have no access to it. And the next time someone says something about a car, you just go, oh, well, we've got one. When we have the money to buy a better one, we will buy a better one with cash, or we will not buy a better one.

Starting point is 00:28:53 Once I understood how much the car payment is worth when I turn, you know, if I'm 30 to 65, I decided I'd ride a bicycle if I had another car payment. because that car isn't costing you 40 grand. It's costing you $4 million over your lifetime of not investing that payment. And most people go, must be nice, Dave, to be able to invest $500 bucks. And I go, what's your car payment? They go $5.50. I go, oh, okay. Looks like you just prioritized your car.

Starting point is 00:29:18 Must be nice to invest something, invest $500 a month in something that's going down in value. Well, that's dumb. Welcome to America. So the rule is this. If you want to be normal, it's easy to be normal in America. It's two car payments of student loan and credit cards you can't afford, and you're looking at your baby wondering how they're going to go to college. That's normal.

Starting point is 00:29:46 In order to be wealthy in America, you have to be unusual. You have to be weird. So be weird. Don't be normal. Normal sucks. That's everybody, not just you, Alyssa. That's all of us. And so, as a matter of fact, on most things in life, you can say that.

Starting point is 00:30:01 Figure out what everyone else is doing and look at their results. You're like, I don't think I want to look like that. I'm not eating that. I don't think I want a marriage that looks like that. I'm not going to treat my wife that way. I don't think I want my children to act that way, so my children aren't going to act that way. I mean, it's a weird thing, you know,

Starting point is 00:30:23 but I mean, unusual is a good thing in a culture that's lost its dadgum mind. So, yeah, be weird. Be weird. Normal is broke. Successful is weird. Normal is not successful. Normal's just, I got by, and it's okay, and I've kind of made it through, and that's not successful, though. If you're successful, you're weird, but you did the hard things to become successful,

Starting point is 00:30:48 and the hard things are what we just told Alyssa to do, and I think she might do it, George. I have hope. I was kind of picking on her there. It was kind of fun, and good for her, she came back at me. That's what it takes. That's why she called you. Zippy. That's good.

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Starting point is 00:32:49 Hi, Zach. How are you? Good. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? I am a young. business owner with a young business that's starting to bring in more money than I expected it would. Yay. Right?

Starting point is 00:33:07 And I'm wondering, how do I know what to allocate towards my business versus what to keep and invest in like myself? That's a great question. You've got to do a little bit of forecasting, and that's not anything complicated. Just look into the future. What kind of business are you in? I sell used jewelry online. So it's silver and gold jewelry mainly.

Starting point is 00:33:32 Okay. And what are you making? What's your income per month? Um, gross and that. Last month it was $7,000. Profit. And then the month before is $5,000. And that's profit?

Starting point is 00:33:44 That includes the cost of the item. Yep. That's profit after item costs, shipping costs. Okay. So if you sold $7,000 worth of profit, what was the total sale price of everything? So last month I did $12,000 revenue with a $7K profit. Okay. So you're doubling your money on what you put into the product when you can find it?

Starting point is 00:34:08 Correct. Okay. So you buy something for $5,000 and you're selling it for $12? Correct. Okay. So when you sell it for $12, obviously you don't take $12 home. You've got to put $5 back out there to do it again. Yes.

Starting point is 00:34:20 That's your minimum. Okay. And then you can look at it and say, if I want to go a little bit more, do I want to go $7? and increase my, you know, increase my inventory. As long as I'm making a profit on the inventory every time, we can have a gradual thing to increase the inventory. What I've always done and what I've recommended to small business owners is to use a percentage and say, okay,

Starting point is 00:34:44 I made $7,000 of profit. 20% would be $1,400. 30% would be $2,100. dollars. So if we said something like, I'm going to take 30% of my profits plus my cost of goods sold. In other words, you take 12,000 minus the five plus 30% of your profit would be another two. You follow me? Yeah. And put that in and I'm taking everything else home.

Starting point is 00:35:14 And then you're always raising your inventory. You're going up all the time, pretty dramatically, actually, if this continues. use. What you're probably going to run into, though, is finding cheap inventory that you can make that kind of margin on. You may not be able to do that as $70,000, but you can do it as $7,000, right? But anyway, until you hit that curve, until you hit a point of diminishing returns, I'd run just a percentage of it on reinvesting and take everything else home. Okay. Okay. Because that was my biggest, like, worry was, like, by investing too much, of my money back into inventory right now?

Starting point is 00:35:56 Only if you're buying inventory that doesn't sell. That's true. How much is sitting out there right now? I have about $30,000 in potential revenue. Okay. In revenue. And so the inventory cost on that's about 15 or 14, right? Yeah, give or take.

Starting point is 00:36:17 Yeah. The margins are pretty... How old is some of that inventory? What's your turn rate on it? I think my oldest piece of inventory is less than a year. That's a long time in that world. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:32 You got too much tied up in that one. You wouldn't buy that one again. You don't buy that one again, right? Correct, yeah. And that's what I was kind of wondering, too, should I, like, because it's precious metal, should I just take, like, all that old inventory and just go melt it? Whichever way you can get the most money for it, the fastest. If you just either discount it and sell it or melt it, which way do I get

Starting point is 00:36:52 the most money. And I wouldn't be sitting on stuff for a year in your world. About a 90-day turn rate, you need to be in and out of that stuff. And you need to very carefully be a nerd analytical about what types of inventory are not turning and stay away from that like the plague. Okay. Because you might think I can get a deal on this and I can flip it for a double, but if it sits for a year, it's a bad deal. Now your, all your fund's gone. Yeah. It's wrapped up money. Exactly. It's just sitting there waiting to be melted. And so, Yeah, that's the thing. So you're not going to get burned on it, but the trick is the turn rate or the flip rate of your money, your inventory turnover rate.

Starting point is 00:37:34 That's where your money is. I mean, so if you can do this every single month, if you could do it on a 30-day rotation and make the margins you made on 12 over 7, you know, are 12 over 5, then that's incredible margins. But when you start holding stuff for a year, those margins start to disappear. Their average margin starts to go down. It starts to go way down, yeah. And so you've got to, you got to, you know, you've got to pick hits and not B-sides. So that's what we're looking for and get that stuff rolled over. That's a cool question, Zach.

Starting point is 00:38:06 And congratulations. It sounds like you're doing really well. If you never even grow it, you're making pretty good money. That's not bad at all. And, you know, and it didn't cost you a lot to start up just some of your initial priming of the pump, so to speak. So, hey, I'm going to give you a copy of the latest. bestseller I did called Building a Business You Love, and it'll help you with some of the

Starting point is 00:38:26 other questions you're going to have as you grow this. Trevor's in Orlando. Hi, Trevor. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? So, I'm currently living with my parents. I just actually paid off my last student loan today. Congratulations.

Starting point is 00:38:43 Thank you. You're a free man. Finally, and I'm trying to figure out if it's worth me staying here for a little bit to get my emergency fund up and then go running an apartment, or should I get my emergency fund up and then save for a house? How old are you? I'm 34. How much do you make?

Starting point is 00:39:08 I make about 71,000 a year. Cool. How long would it take to save up a full emergency fund with very little expenses? Six months, even while living at home, how do you make? Yeah. I'm sorry? What do you make? So I bring home 5,700 a month.

Starting point is 00:39:26 Where the flip is all that going? So it's been paying off bill debt up until now. So every two weeks, I'm married, I have three kids. Oh, wow. What? Wait, wait a minute. Stop, stop, stop. Okay.

Starting point is 00:39:44 You're 34. You make $71,000 a year, and you're married and have two kids. kids or three kids three kids and you live with your parents yes sir why so i didn't always live with my parents i'm guessing that yeah i'm sitting and i decided that i needed a career change so i quit my job moved in with my parents so i go to school full-time i'm now a nurse um and so they were nice enough to let me let me stay here where i got through school that's a good story i like that story and i like where you got to. You ended up being a great nurse, and now you need to go out and have a life again, my son. It's time to leave Mommy's house. Yes. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Get an apartment now.

Starting point is 00:40:32 Okay. What's an apartment going to cost you in your area? I can get a townhouse for about just under 1,500 a month. Perfect. Great. Does your wife work outside the home? No, she just stay-at-home mom. Okay. When was the last time she worked outside the home? Um, back in 19. What does she do then? Um, she was a receptionist for a ophthalmologist. Okay. I want her to find a side hustle that she can do from home while taking care of her kids to add some money to this equation.

Starting point is 00:41:04 So you guys can save up a really big down payment really quickly and get out of that apartment. Sweet. Oh, and by the way, you're a nurse. You passed your bars? Yeah. So I'm a registered nurse. I've been doing this for a little over here now. Oh, man.

Starting point is 00:41:18 You can make so much money. but you're going to be working all the time. All the time. I mean, you can pick up ER shifts on the weekend on triple time. Yeah, I'm actually still going to school. I have to go back from my bachelors, so I'm doing that right now as well. Why? It's a contract with the hospital.

Starting point is 00:41:36 Your bachelor's is a contract with a hospital? Yeah, when I signed on, it's a requirement to get it within three years. Oh, hmm. Okay. And you can work overtime because nursing is everywhere. There's a shorty. you can make all so much money as a nurse. Our end is a, it's a, you can write your ticket, man.

Starting point is 00:41:55 It's like unlimited money. It's a wonderful place. And you don't have to work like that the rest of your life. But if you want to get out of that apartment and get out of Mama's house and get all this stuff in your rearview mirror, it's all the things we did in the past in order to win, the more you work, the faster you do that. And so if I'm in your shoes, I'm busting it. And Mama's got a side hustle she doing from home with the kids. And we're stacking cash in the corner and we're going to get us a house. but go get an apartment this week.

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Starting point is 00:43:55 George Campbell is my co-host today. Lisa is in Arkansas. Hi, Lisa. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Starting point is 00:44:04 I have a question about budgeting. My husband and I have been married for two years, yet we have a separate bank account. I was wondering how I could get my husband on the same board of budgeting. Okay. Why do you have separate bank accounts? That's the tough problem. If we combine our money, he would spend 80% of it.

Starting point is 00:44:34 He's not a type of person to budget, I guess. So I'm just trying to ask for advice on that. Okay. I'm confused about where all this is going. So you're afraid he's going to spend all the money, but you want to combine the accounts. Right. So he has investments.

Starting point is 00:45:00 He invests about 80% of his money towards cards, specifically, Pokemon, since that is. kind of one of his topics that he likes to work on and stuff. Yeah. How old is this man? He's around 35, and I am 27, so there's about 7 and 8 years apart. And how does he invest 80% of what he makes? What do you all live on? We actually work at a company that is very beneficial to us, where they pay for all the housing utilities, even the car that we drive, and they pay for gas.

Starting point is 00:45:38 weekly. And what is the job? We work at a real estate company and we work and fix houses and I work in the office. And so you don't have a housing expense. You don't have one car expense. But you still have to eat and other things and he spends 80% of his money on Pokemon cards and he's 36. Yes, sir. Sounds like a 14 year old. Kind of, yeah. How much in Pokemon cards does he have? Oh, goodness. His portfolio is 33,000.

Starting point is 00:46:18 And how long has he been doing this? For two years. So since you've been married, and probably before you were married, this was his thing. And he went, hey, this is my thing. You don't get to tell me what to do. This is my money. It kind of started when we got married. We went to a store like two weeks after our marriage, and we just got attention.

Starting point is 00:46:38 because we were just curious. We gas after that. This makes me very sad for both of you because it sounds very juvenile. And you're giggling about it. So it makes me sad too. But you guys, have you said to him, well, you need to be grown-ups and start investing in grown-up things? things and we need to actually combine our money and start being humans and all adults and that

Starting point is 00:47:14 kind of stuff. What does he say when you have these discussions? So I'm the person who actually sits down and budgets everything. I have made lists and everything multiple times. No, that wasn't what I asked. I asked when you had a conversation with him, what does he say? Oh, he agrees. No, he didn't.

Starting point is 00:47:37 He agrees verbally. but maybe throws in like $100 or $2,000 maybe every other month. Now, this changes today. Your entire paycheck goes into our checking account. My entire paycheck goes into our checking account. And the two of us sit down today and we decide where our money is going to go. Spoiler alert. Pokeman cards are on the list.

Starting point is 00:48:00 I agree. How is that conversation sound? I've actually tried that conversation at least three times. and have asked friends to encourage him to help me with this. You need marriage counseling. I agree. He's addicted to this card game. You need to go get on the phone and talk to your church and talk to your pastor and set up a marriage counseling session.

Starting point is 00:48:24 If he won't go, go by yourself because you've married poorly. And this guy has, you know, the only chance that you guys stay together is that he starts a process by which he becomes an adult. And an adult looks at their wife and says, you are my primary concern. A wife adult looks at her husband and says, you are my primary concern, not my juvenile habit of buying Pokemon cards. That's way down the freaking list of things to do. Okay? And it's not an investment and it's not a portfolio. It's a habit.

Starting point is 00:49:04 And so, I mean, this is the same people call me in the old days and say, You know, we're collecting Beanie Babies because that Princess Die, Beanie Baby is going to be worth something someday. Yeah. And so we actually got out my son who's 35. We found his Pokemon cards from his 12-year-old days the other day. Might be sitting on a gold money. He had a portfolio when he was 12. Wow.

Starting point is 00:49:28 What an student investor he was. And now his 4-year-old has a portfolio and plays with them, which is the appropriate thing to do with $50 Pokemon cards. because he looked them up to make sure there wasn't a $50,000 one in there. And there wasn't. Just for the fun of it. And there wasn't because that's how this kind of thing works. Okay. It's all bull crap.

Starting point is 00:49:47 And so the chances of you being in the collectibles business and actually making good money, whether it's baseball cards, Pokemon cards, gold coins, rare coins, art, all of these things that you think you know something about. Most people don't. And most people simply break even at best. Beanie baby. are not an investment for your kids college fund. That's a statement I made 30 years ago, and it has been proven to be very true. The only thing that beanie babies are good for these days are for the dog to play with.

Starting point is 00:50:21 It came in with Princess Die in its mouth the other day. So there you go. And that was the one that was supposed to be worth $10,000. And the dog was very happy to carry it around the house. We had a call of an 18-year-old who had $600,000 worth of Pokemon cards. And so John Deloney and I took this call, and I told them, Was it real or was that a troll? I mean, these people exist.

Starting point is 00:50:41 There's a troll. They're claiming it was real. Kelly, the producer, saying it's real. But we clipped it and the subculture of Pokemon people came after us saying, No way. You got the horse people and the Pokemon people after you. And the Bitcoin people. They're all cut from the same cloth, which is this is an investment.

Starting point is 00:50:56 You can't tell me otherwise and you don't understand it. You haven't studied it enough. Look at the track record of Pokemon over time and it's better than the S&P 500. Oh my God. It's insufferable. realize I got in the right there in the mud with the pig and I got dirty and the pig liked it. Yeah, that's it. That's the whole thing.

Starting point is 00:51:13 It was a losing battle. Yeah. Well, so here's the thing. You call here for help and we're going to give you the help that is time proven and time honored. And the number of millionaires that I met became millionaires due to Pokemon cards is really close to the number zero. Like it's there, zero. And so, and I've met millions and thousands, tens of thousands of millionaires. and I've met hundreds of billionaires

Starting point is 00:51:39 and not a single Pokemon billionaire have I run into. Not a one, except maybe the guy that invented the whole thing, he might be a billionaire. Yeah, the team behind Pokemon's crushing it because they understand the game. They understand the game.

Starting point is 00:51:51 The game is selling to her Lisa's husband. That's the game. Target demographic used to be children. Now it's children and adults. Now it's children. I mean, he's still got the Star Wars action figure collectibles too.

Starting point is 00:52:05 That might be worth something. No, George, no. If you're shopping online and these days everybody does, data brokers are out there right now buying and selling your personal information, your phone number, your home address, your email, without your knowledge or consent. And that puts you at risk for spam calls, scam texts, and fraud.

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Starting point is 00:54:16 a pre-nup. My fiancé has over six figures in student loan debt, and the agreement would make me responsible for those loans once we're married, even requiring me to continue paying the remaining balance if we were to divorce. In exchange, we've agreed that the assets I bring into the marriage will remain completely separate. Is this a fair trade-off? Should I be willing to take on her premarital debt in exchange for protecting my premarital assets, or are we setting up a marriage where we're keeping score instead of truly becoming financial partners? Well, there's some self-awareness here, so that's good. The last line is the most hopeful line. Yeah, nothing about this sounds romantic. I mean, you're saying, I'll pay off your debts. I don't know what your assets are

Starting point is 00:54:57 if we're talking millions and millions in real estate or 50 grand in a checking account. So it's hard to know exactly where this tradeoff is. Or what the balance is on the student loan. Yeah, it just says over six figures. But here's how I see it. Once you're married, it's our debt. You pay off the debt. The assets are our assets. We build wealth from there. That's a lot. That's a lot. That's So I've seen couples win with money. I've never seen it where it's tit for tab and they go, well, this was mine from before, so I'm keeping my house. I think that is a losing game in the long run, unless there's a huge discrepancy where you're coming in with millions and millions and she's got nothing. Okay. Let's use some pretend figures and try to address an actual tactical thing here. Okay. Let's pretend that he has $2 million in mutual funds. And she has $100,000 in student loan debt. Okay. if I were in that situation on either side, I would not have approached this as we are negotiating a pre-nup. That's a bad phrase to use with your fiancé.

Starting point is 00:56:01 Okay. I want to design something that makes us both feel great about our future. That's not negotiating a pre-up. This is not a business transaction. You've reduced it down to that with the phrasing you're using, the words you're using. using a really scary. And as you said in your last sentence, I'm keeping score. So if I woke up in that situation, George, the pre-nup would simply read that I have $2 million

Starting point is 00:56:30 in mutual funds and if we get divorced, we split everything beyond $2 million and I get $2 million. And the day we're married, I'm going to pay off the student loan, period. And then we don't have to worry about it. That would be simpler. You're not on the hook for the student loan. If you have substantial assets and she has well over $100,000 in student loan debt, you write a check the day after the honeymoon and you pay off her student loan. It's done.

Starting point is 00:56:58 So it doesn't need to be part of the pre-nup. You can state that in the pre-nup, if you want, that upon return from the honeymoon, we will write a check that day and pay off the student loan loan. But that's just a practical thing. And because when you took her on, dude, you took on $100,000 in student loan debt. and if she's not worth that, then you're very transactional and you need to walk away from the whole thing. Period. That's the way I feel about it. What are you thinking when you're seeing this? I mean, yeah, we've seen couples who go, hey, this is scary. And then we've seen the ones who go,

Starting point is 00:57:30 you know what? I loved her and I wanted to marry her regardless of how much debt it was. And I knew there was going to be a little bit of a mountain to climb. And it would take me back a couple steps to use my savings to knock out the debt. But it was all worth it. Those are the marriages that I see that will win. I go, that's a couple that's going to together. So it's not to say that this marriage can't work, but I think starting off on this foot makes me go, how much else are we going to keep separate? Yeah, even requiring me to continue paying the remaining balance if we were to divorce, which there would not be a remaining balance in my scenario because you've got substantial assets. You pay it off immediately. You don't pay off a student loan. You don't keep it like it's a freaking pet. We destroy the thing immediately.

Starting point is 00:58:09 Sally Mae is an ugly old woman with a ward on her nose. Get her out of the house. You do not want her in your house. You do not want a spare bedroom for this chick. She's not family and she's evil. She's from the government. And anybody that's from the government is not here to help. So there you go. This is how this works. So yeah, I, but I think you guys have deeper problems in your relationship based on the way this is written. Yeah, regardless of the numbers, the phrasing makes it seem like. It's really creepy. You're walking in with arms up with a shield up. Yeah. If my daughter was on the receiving end of this, I would tell her to run away from you. Because everything with you is going to be a transaction with you, Hudson. It's what it sounds like based on this letter.

Starting point is 00:59:01 Now, I may be overreating it, but the way this is worded. With no tone. It's creepy. Jeremy's in Little Rock. Hi, Jeremy. How are you? Doing fine, Dave. George. How are y'all doing this blessed afternoon? Better than we deserve, sir. about you. Oh, doing well by God's grace. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Just a five-second back story. I have many flaws. My wife will back me up on that. But one of my biggest flaws is the fear of running out. Do you pick it? I'm scared of running out. So with that said, my wife and I have mutual, excuse me, IRAs, and a

Starting point is 00:59:38 brokerage account. Okay. And last week, we had the privilege of attending You and George's investing essentials, and we have watched and rewashed and rewatch that thing. Wow, thank you. We really enjoyed it. Yes, sir. And long story short, our mutual fund, our IRAs, our brokerage account for years has just been sitting in money market. Wow. Why? Yeah, we've matched inflation, but that's all it's done. What spooked you to the sidelines? Was it ever invested? No. No, it's just been in mutual funds. I believe the world's been shaved by a drunk barber, and I'm always here to... Chicken Little is my nickname.

Starting point is 01:00:26 Okay. All right. Yes, but after watching the investing essentials, we've got peace, and we're ready to move on into the four categories of the mutual funds. Good. Okay. Okay. So we have met with a smart investor pro. I'm not ignorant in all this. So my wife and I, even before the first night was over, jumped on the website that holds our IRAs. And we found four good categories that equal 12.45% with mutual funds that date back to 1981. Good, okay. Well done. We told you you could do it.

Starting point is 01:01:10 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay, so my question basically comes down to, I think I'm looking for a nickel when it's raining $20 bills. We don't feel comfortable giving five figures to a smart best of pro when we can do this ourselves. But when we called, I'll just go ahead and say it, when we called Vanguard, who holds the IRAs, they have a sub-company called a census who holds the SEP and the Simple. That's what we have, 7th and Simples. And they don't offer the mutual funds that we want to invest that match up with y'all's teachings. Charles Schwab, who owns our brokerage account, will offer those, but they have what we call a transaction fee. Yep.

Starting point is 01:02:00 Yep. So, what's your opinion on paying the transaction fee if everything lines up with what we learned in the investing essentials? I would use a smart vestor pro instead and pay the management fee that is there that's part of it. And that's what I do, by the way, and what George does. And the reason is that you've got somebody in your corner, you're DIYing it with personal customized advice while you DIY it. Right now, you just walked out into the wild and you found three mutual funds in the woods that were. but there's a lot of trees in those woods. And so I, you know, there's 8,000 mutual funds.

Starting point is 01:02:47 I know a lot about this and I don't go through all 8,000 to pick mine. It's too, I don't want to spend my time doing that. I want my guy to look at it and I have found that what little I pay them is worth every penny. You've lost way more on the sidelines. The stock market doubled in the last five years. It's not that money was sitting in money market, trust me. Yeah, he's ready to go, though. He's ready to get in.

Starting point is 01:03:08 So now let's get him in. Let's trust the guy who can do it. I wouldn't just, you know, Vanguard's great. Charles Schwab, I don't know, I'm mad at Charles Schwab. I personally would get somebody in my corner that I can sit down and talk to that regularly is looking at this with me to give me good, strong advice. When it comes to your health insurance, one of the biggest mistakes you can make is believing you're stuck in a one-size-fits-all plan that costs too much and covers too little. That's why I recommend health trust financial. They're the only Ramsey trusted health insurance partner because their advisors take the time to understand your situation and help you explore the coverage options that are available to you.

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Starting point is 01:05:16 Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that is built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. No junk from the internet in this tool. It's all from stuff we've answered here on the show, stuff we've answered in our books. All the books are dumped into the data set. All the articles, thousands of articles that we've written on the website are all in the data set. And that's how you're going to get a very, very Ramsey answer. Clean data, clean results. That's exactly how it works.

Starting point is 01:05:42 Ask your question today at Ramsey Solutions.com. Ask Ramsey's a free service or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Mary is with us in Youngstown, Ohio. Hi, Mary. How are you? Hi, guys. I'm doing really well. How are you?

Starting point is 01:05:58 Better than we deserve. What's up? So I had a quick question. Is it okay to invest more than 15% of your income into retirement? Is your home paid off? I'm 28 years old. actually today, but I still live at home and I have no debt. Happy birthday.

Starting point is 01:06:22 Thank you. You don't own a home is what you're saying. Exactly, yeah. So, yeah, you can invest anything you want to. At some point, you may want to own a home, so any investing you're doing above the 15%, I might go to something just like an S&P 500, a brokerage account, and let it grow for a down payment on a house. So earmark that as down payment fund.

Starting point is 01:06:46 instead of retirement. Okay. Because someday you're probably going to move out and buy a house, I hope. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's definitely in the plans. I actually just talked to my financial advisor, who's Ramsey approved. And I am maxing out my 401k at 6%. And I was maxing out my Roth IRA.

Starting point is 01:07:07 But with both of those together, it came to 23%. But I was wondering if I need to cut back in one of the expenses. It's not the end of the world. want you to save for a down payment too. Yeah. That's all. And I want you to get out and get on your own. Yeah, what do you make?

Starting point is 01:07:25 Currently, I make $45,000. Okay. And you're maxing out of 401K? You're 28 years old and you live at home? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 01:07:35 You're not maxing out your 401K at $45,000. No. You're putting up to the match. But you're saying between that 6% in the 401k and then maxing out of Roth IRA, it's equivalent to 23% of your income. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Got it. Okay.

Starting point is 01:07:54 So you took the match and then you went and did a Roth. That's good. I like that. Very smart. Yeah, good work. Well done. And yes, I would move out and start my adult life. You're 28.

Starting point is 01:08:03 It's time to do it. Even if you need to get a couple of roommates. Yeah. It's good. It's good. It's an important part of the adult process. And, yeah, you can live and start to save for your downpour. payment and that kind of stuff. Yes, very good.

Starting point is 01:08:18 Tyler is in Houston. Hi, Tyler. How are you? Good. How are y'all doing? Better than we deserve. What's up? Man, I am 21. I work at a dealership selling cars, and I make probably around 160, and I just got married about two months ago, and I'm running into the idea that I worked, Before we met and we got married, I worked about 80 hours a week. Now I probably worked about 65. And it just seems that I'm running into, I want to spend a little bit more time with her

Starting point is 01:08:52 and we be able to do things, but that would mean moving jobs and not making as much money. And I think it's hard because this is pretty much my real big boy job, first one, and it's doing very well. So are you working? What days and hours are you working? It is pretty much I just started taking Tuesdays off since we got married

Starting point is 01:09:15 but it is Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday pretty much 8 to 8. Okay, she is Sunday and Tuesday off. Yes, sir. And you're working 12-hour days five days a week and that's 60 hours.

Starting point is 01:09:31 Okay. All right, and how long have you been married? Three months. Hmm. Okay. Hi. You can do what you want to do, and the two of you can decide. There's no right or wrong or moral answer here. You called us, and my wife grew up on a farm, and they milked cows and planted tobacco. And so hard work is like her middle name. So the chances. of her telling me I need to work less ever in my life has been zero. So I'm having a little bit of trouble figuring out how to process this because even now, when I turn 60, I start taking

Starting point is 01:10:27 Fridays off and she's like, what are you doing here? Go over there to the office and do something. So I kind of have the opposite problem on my end that you have after 45 years of marriage. And so I don't think 60 hours is the end of the world. I will tell you that I know a lot of very, very successful people that have built wonderful marriages, children, lives, businesses, and none of them did it on 40-hour weeks. I can promise you my average through my working lifetime has been more like 60. And many, many weeks that were 80. and so, you know, because I run my own business and that's the world's worst boss, that guy will drive you into the dirt, you know? So I'm the problem is I'm trying to be authentic with you, Tyler, and say that my answer would be skewed because of who I am.

Starting point is 01:11:30 And so, and because of the facts I just gave you. So I'm, I think you're fine at 60 hours. If you told me you were working seven days a week, 12 hours a day, which would put you at 80-something hours, then yeah, you'd probably need to do something different for your new marriage. That's true. But married couples have had wonderful lives and first years on 60-hour weeks. Sometimes it makes the marriage better. Most of human history. Absence can make the heart grow fonder.

Starting point is 01:12:02 It's – but, I mean, you're at home at 8 o'clock. I mean, you know. There's seasons and situations. It didn't like your bedtime is 9 o'clock. And if you guys have intense financial goals, this might be a season. Eventually, you might go, I need something a little bit more flexible or less days or whatever it is, less hours to where it's 40, 45 hours. But for now, it's up to y'all. Nothing's on fire.

Starting point is 01:12:24 There's a trade-off, but I just- Doesn't sound like he's burnt out either. No, he just wants to spend time with his new wife, and that's a nice thing. That's sweet. And she wants that. That's nice. And so I wish more of the couples that called here wanted that. You know, it was like, you know, most of them they call here go,

Starting point is 01:12:45 how do I get my husband to work more? You know, so it's the other way around. But, yeah, I think you're a great guy and I think she's a great gal, and I think y'all will work it out. There's not a wrong answer. If you choose to do something different, you didn't do something wrong. If you choose to stay there and say, when I come home at 8 o'clock, we are not going to turn on Netflix.

Starting point is 01:13:05 We're going to spend time together. Watching the same television show together is not spending time together. Okay, turn off the television and put your phone up and no doom scrolling. Neither one of you have a phone in your hand or a computer, and neither one of you have Netflix. And that's a Sunday rule, a Tuesday rule, and an 8 p.m. on rule. And then you're going to find plenty of time. It sounds like you just don't like dancing with the stars, Dave.

Starting point is 01:13:33 That's it. I think you're just anti-streaming shows. Dancing with the stars is your best representation of binge watching? That's it. Why can't you come up with something cool? That's all I'm aware of. A binge watch Reacher or something like that. Oh, there we go, more manly.

Starting point is 01:13:49 It's binge watch something that matters. More gunfire. Dancing with the stars. George. I was trying to relate to you. I thought for sure Sharon forces you to sit down and watch Dancing with the Stars. You know Sharon better than that. I don't know what she's into these days.

Starting point is 01:14:04 Sharon would take my man card away if I watched Dancing with the Stars. I'm just saying I thought you might be on it one day. There's still time, guys. Vote for Dave Ramsey on Dancing with the Stars and we might have a real hit on our hands. Here we go. Just keep it right here, Dave.

Starting point is 01:14:19 You ready? You're ready? Keep it tight. Keep it tight. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. I don't know about y'all, but I can build something up in my head until it feels way harder than it really is. I'll convince myself it's going to take forever, be super complicated, or cost of

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Starting point is 01:15:48 Ramsey. Richards in San Antonio. Hey, Richard, what's up? Hi, how are you? Great, man. How can we help? Basically, I'm paycheck to paycheck and I'm drowning, so I just, I don't know how to get out of it. So I guess that's the question, what do I do? Okay. So why are you paycheck to paycheck and why are you drowning? So my wife and I, you've been together about 10 years. We have combined student loan debt of about 900K to a million. Our income was until recently around 200K year, but I was recently laid off.

Starting point is 01:16:50 So now it's cut in half. What are your degrees, man? We're both practicing attorneys. So I just started taking cases on my own just to bring something in. But we always get to the same point whenever we discuss bills. she wants to pay all the bills whenever we have like a bill meeting and I want to save something because I know once we bill the bills for that time period or billing period we end up with nothing left so I just walk around like feeling like a fraud most of the time and you know I'm

Starting point is 01:17:32 scared to be invited to any type of dinner or event because I'm just looking at the dollar sign calculating, do I have enough for this? Do I have enough for that? And that's been our life for, you know. Why are two attorneys only making $100,000 a year each? So we were both non-profit attorneys. Why, if you have $900,000 in student loan debt, did you take that stupid job? The plan was that, um, If you do that for a certain amount of time, you can get the student loans forgiven if you work in that nonprofit sector. Yeah, not true because it's not happened for very many people. 5% of the people get through that gauntlet, 95% don't.

Starting point is 01:18:26 So you've been underpaid by $150,000 to $200,000 a year for years to try to get through a few hundred thousand in student loan debt. Yeah. So where are you guys at in that process? He's now opened his own firm, right? Yeah, I basically just started... But you're not working for nonprofit rates anymore, but she still is. Correct, correct. What I make, what I charge is completely hours or mine.

Starting point is 01:18:57 What was the original balance of these student loans? It was around, you know, 300 each, but then... I think it ballooned to around the 450 plus. How long ago did you pass the bar? It's been about 11 years. So they were not forgiven? I initially worked in private, so I only did about six, six to seven in a nonprofit. What about your wife?

Starting point is 01:19:33 She's about at eight. She was a nonprofit. So she worked at a private as well for a while? A little bit, yeah. Okay. All right. Well, our experiences is that very few people get those loans forgiven under that program. It's a, the program is full of holes and problems and loopholes.

Starting point is 01:19:58 So we meet a whole lot of disillusioned people after working 10 years for substandard wages and service to the community and then don't get their loans forgiven. So I don't have a lot of hope in that. And of course, you've started the clock over now. So yours is not relevant. So what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? I would make student loan reduction my primary goal. Therefore, my income, highest possible income, even if it's in a less than ideal situation,

Starting point is 01:20:31 I want to make the most possible money for a short period of time and really jack your incomes way up. and live on nothing, beans and rice, rice and beans, and attack these student loans with a vengeance. And no, you don't need to be going to a dinner party. If somebody invites you, you say, I have a million dollars in student loan debt. I can't go. And that's what we're working on. And so it's job one.

Starting point is 01:20:59 You got one job. It's that. And you guys get your incomes up as high as you can and your expenses down as low as you can. Now, as far as being able to eat and so forth, you've pulled that off for a decade. So you haven't thrown all the money at the student loans and then got to the end of the month that had no food. That's not what you're saying. But no, you don't need to be saving money. You need to be getting these debts cleaned up.

Starting point is 01:21:22 But you guys have not been aggressive on this because you've not been aggressive on your incomes. Correct. You weren't making a ton of money. I mean, a couple hundred thousands good money, but it's not good money if you owe a million. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't feel that way. No, it doesn't. It doesn't move the needle much. It moves it, but not enough to where you don't feel stuck.

Starting point is 01:21:43 You felt like a rat in a wheel for a long time. And the math's against you. Unless you're paying more than the interest in principle, that thing's just going to move up and up and up. Yeah. You've got to get ahead of it by just throwing tens of thousands of this thing every month. Yeah. That's what it's going to take. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:21:57 I need you making a couple of hundred each minimum. And as soon as possible, and preferably 250 each or 300 each, 80 hours a week. And you just work until you're blind. But you can clear this up in three or four. four years if you do that. But if not, you're going to be sitting here 10 years from now still looking at this thing. You're going to have to do something pretty dramatic with the math. But if you take $900,000 and you start throwing $300,000 out of a year, $300,000 in a year, it's done in three years.

Starting point is 01:22:29 But that means you're making between the two of you, $400 and living on $100, not counting taxes, which means you're living on nothing. Yes. And that's where I'm trying to get you to. Throw $300 a year at it and be done in three years. that's $25,000 a month, not $25,000 a year, which is what you've been doing because you've not even moved the needle. So I've got great hope, but it's all, you know, we call it the shovel and hole thing, Richard. The hole that your end is 900. Your shovel is your income.

Starting point is 01:23:01 You've got a huge hole and a small shovel. I'm telling you, get a new shovel. And the hole gets filled up a lot faster than it. And it's three, I need $300,000 a year above my. my living expenses and taxes to throw it 900,000, and then I'm done in approximately three years. But otherwise, if you just say it out loud, it takes your breath away. I have a million dollars. And so I can't breathe.

Starting point is 01:23:28 I can't think. Everything revolves around this. But if you have a clear cut plan, you're making 200 each, 250 each, or 250 and 150, and we're knocking this thing out in three years, you've got great hope. your energy level is going to come up. The scales are going to fall away from your eyes. Your depression is going to slip away. Your effectiveness as an attorney is going to be better and everything else.

Starting point is 01:23:53 But right now, it's hard to see anything because you've got this huge concrete wall in front of your nose. And it just blocks your vision for your life. And it's sad, man. I'm so sorry. I'm not fussing at you. I'm fussing with you. But you gave up the opportunity to make no money when you, took on all this loans, you have to go make as much money as possible now, as soon as possible,

Starting point is 01:24:19 and the more money you make, obviously, the faster you're going to get out. And you know what I'm talking about. And it's going to be a lot of hours. It's going to be a lot of sacrifice. And you're going to put up with some stuff you don't want to put up with. You're going to be working in a firm that you don't necessarily love everything about it. Whoopty-dupty. I don't like anything about my life right now. I need to change something. And you need to change a bunch of stuff. right now. Yeah, the conversation needs to change from. Are we going to pay the bills first or save first? It is, we need to get our income way up and keep our expenses down to nothing so that we have that margin. And you can do this math on paper and go, okay, how much are we willing to work? We're both

Starting point is 01:24:57 going to work 80 hours a week for the next three, four years and knock this thing out because we've been doing this for a decade and the number went up. So what we've been doing isn't working. We've got to try a different plan. And the debt snowball, like you mentioned, staring down 900 grand, we'll take your breathway. But if you focus on the smallest debt and just go, that's the enemy right there. That's the villain. You have hope to fight the next one and the next one. That's what it's going to take. Hey, George Camel here. A few years ago, someone stole my identity. And let me tell you, that is not a quick fix. It takes hours on the phone, piles of paperwork, and a whole lot of stress trying to untangle the mess. And even after that, there's this nagging paranoia because your

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Starting point is 01:26:35 and with the family plan, your kids are covered for free. You work too hard to let identity theft steal your time, your money, and your peace of mind. So go to zander.com to enroll today or call 800356-4282. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. George Camel Ramsey, Personality, is my co-host. Today, Randy is in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Hi, Randy, how are you? I'm good. How are you doing?

Starting point is 01:27:12 I enjoy your show. Thank you. And I enjoy your app. It is amazing. Well, thank you. Thank you. Glad every dollar was a blessing to you. How can we help today?

Starting point is 01:27:22 Going through a major remodel at the house and trying to keep my friality from causing strife with my wife. I've never really spent any money on myself for 61 years, and now we're spending a lot of money. I'm just trying to maintain... How far into the project are you? Three days. What's the cost of it total? Our budget with contractor, new appliances, new furniture, furnishing, so forth is 550,000. Wow.

Starting point is 01:28:01 So we have line item budget, and we've agreed to the amounts. Where would your fragility kick in? As long as she stays under the amount agreed to, are we okay? Yeah, and I've allowed a 10% change order fee with the contractor. I mean, that's typical in today's world as a contract. myself at one time. That's true, but we really shouldn't need any change orders, except on this discussion you and I are having, she's got a piece of furniture she wants to buy, and your frugality

Starting point is 01:28:33 is causing an argument, but why would that be so if the piece of furniture is within the budget that you have both agreed to before you started the project? Well, that's just it. I'm hoping we can stay within the budget. No, not hopefully, but this is how we start a project. We both sit down and agree to the numbers. Yes. Are you worried that it's going to go way out of scope? Or are you just seeing this money leave your bank now? You're going, oh, gosh, I regret agreeing to this. A little bit of everything. You know, it's just a very good project.

Starting point is 01:29:06 Okay, so give me an example of where you think there might be an argument. Going into the flooring, give me the price per square foot to make sure we stay within budget. And I want to make sure we're not getting the highest-end flooring there is. No, I meant. In the middle of the road should be good. I don't care if it's highest in or not as long as it's in the budget. You've agreed to the budget. You're not allowed to whine as long as it's within budget.

Starting point is 01:29:32 Yes, sir. Is there an actual spreadsheet that says flooring with a line item with the amount we're going to allocate to that? Yes. That's how a project like that, the budget should be developed that way. Yeah. So if you've agreed to it, you should have all that angst behind you. If she's agreed to it, then she's agreed to stay within that. So we were building a house a while back, and the flooring came in, just to use your example,

Starting point is 01:29:58 the decorator and my wife picked flooring when they had their wonderful day at the flooring place, and it was $42,000 over the budget. And I'm like, what were y'all smoking? We had a budget. And everyone agreed to the budget ahead of time, including the decorator, until they went to the deadgum flooring store. And they're like, well, you know, we picked out this thing for the basement for the downstairs. And I'm like, four people will be down there per year. No.

Starting point is 01:30:29 Doesn't need to be the Taj Mahal down there. No. We're going to put the cheapest crap in the basement so you can put the nice stuff upstairs where we are every day. You spend your money where you're going to be. And so that's me reining the decorator in, which meant I had to reign my wife in. But that's not even frugality. That's just sticking to the agreement. Yes, sir.

Starting point is 01:30:51 And that's the way the whole thing goes down. I'm in the middle of one of these renovations right now with a house, and I'm going through the exact same thing. But this is the fifth time we've done it, built a custom house or done a large renovation. And so Sharon and I have got this dialed in now. We don't yell at each other anymore. The first one, we almost killed each other.

Starting point is 01:31:08 So we had to learn to preset it and agree to it. Now think about this before you agree to it, because you're going to sign this in blood. You're sticking to this. and when you and the little decorator have your moment, then you're going to have another moment with me because we're not doing it. And then if you do all that, you can come back and go, oh, wait, we got savings over here. If you want to upgrade that one door thingy, let's do it. And you can loosen up and be sure you spend all the money somewhere that you've agreed to spend,

Starting point is 01:31:40 and it makes it feel like you're being very generous. True. Yeah. I guess there's just a lot of anxiety on my part being this is just the very beginning, the first week of it. Yeah, and you've never done this. So I think that if the budget is correct, if it's realistic, I mean, if you put $4 in for lighting and it's going to be $4,000, that's a problem, right?

Starting point is 01:32:05 Yes, sir. But if the budget is realistic and you're comfortable that it's a good number where your wife and you can have a nice property when this is completed, because by God, you've earned it, both of you, then you get comfortable with that. That'll lower your anxiety. Then the second thing you've got to get comfortable with is her commitment to this agreement. And here's how I would phrase it if I were you. I've been in this exact seat.

Starting point is 01:32:33 That's why. Except it's not frugality with me. It's sticking the freaking plan with me. I'm not really that frugal. Sharon is more naturally frugal. But once there's a plan, you got to stick to it. I'll lose my mind. So, but here's how I learned to do it.

Starting point is 01:32:46 Honey, I can stand back and watch you enjoy these purchases. if I'm comfortable that you're going to do the purchases within the numbers that we've talked about. Promise me you're going to stay no matter who says what, no matter which of your friends show up or the decorator shows up, or anybody that's going to negatively influence your brain, that no matter what happens, you're going to continue to use your brain, and you're going to stick with the numbers that we agree to. If you can promise me that and you do it, I'm going to celebrate cheap Randy. is going to celebrate these large purchases with you, my wife. Sounds perfect.

Starting point is 01:33:28 And it gives you the, but if you're comfortable, she's going to stick to it and that the number is realistic. Because if she comes back and the number's not realistic, then she's got a case. And that's a change order, right? Right. And that's going to happen in a $550,000 project. You're right, 10%. You're going to be off 50 grand. You probably underpriced some things and maybe overpriced some other things.

Starting point is 01:33:51 Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's going to be something that blows up in the thing. It's not going to come in. But the last house we built, we did it within 3% of budget, and it was two months early. Because we managed to the blueprint, we managed to the schedule, and we managed to the budget. And everybody on the team knew that Dave is going to be wonderful to work with and the money's going to keep flowing. And I'm going to be smiling and happy as long as we manage to the schedule, the blueprint, and the freaking budget. And if you get off of any of those things, you're not going to like me because my whole job is to keep all of you people on those three things. You're going to build it two blueprint, two specs. You're going to build it to budget and within the allowances that we set in the budget. And guess what? I didn't even have one episode in that last house. I made 14 months.

Starting point is 01:34:44 I didn't have a single episode. We had lots of decisions to make, things that changed. We made a concession here, raised something there, lower. something there, but we're within 3% of budget when we get done. It's a Swiss train at this point. It's on time. We're going to do it. On budget. I mean, and that's how you build a house and that's how you do a project like this. But, Randy, I can completely relate.

Starting point is 01:35:05 It's one of the biggest, that's why I tell young couples just getting married don't build a house. You really got to be married a while for you can survive building a house together. Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about. And all those decisions can feel overall. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take

Starting point is 01:36:11 the next steps toward your home goals, go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash real estate. That's ramsysolutions.com slash real estate. If you're sick and tired of working hard but have nothing to show for it, you need to try a new plan. We can show you how to get out of debt, build wealth using the baby steps, and the best way to do that is the every dollar budgeting app, which is going to help you find extra money, build you a personalized plan, and guide you, hold your hand to do the Ramsey steps. In just 15 minutes, you're going to find thousands in hidden margin and you'll feel like you've got to raise. Don't live normal when you can. live like no one else. Start every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play. Stephanie is in

Starting point is 01:37:13 Salt Lake City, Utah. Hi, Stephanie. How are you? Hi, Dave. Better than I deserve. How are you? Just the same. How can I help? Wonderful. First of all, I'm a huge fan of your show and of your books. It's a pleasure to be here on this show. So thanks for having me. We're honored. I do have a two-part question for you. I'm just going to hit you with it. And then I'd love for you to take it away and tell me what you think. My husband and I like to think we're in a good spot financially. We only have a mortgage and our savings account is growing weekly. We both put 15% into our Roth 401Ks.

Starting point is 01:37:49 And we were approached recently and told about IUL accounts and it was feeling like a cool, unique opportunity at first. But then the more we've thought about it and kind of taking a step back, it kind of just feels like a scam. They're kind of pushy about it. So we wanted to know what you recommend. And then the second part to that is that we are about to be a one-income household as we have our first baby on the way. And I'll be staying home to raise our kids. So we also just wanted to know how to adjust our retirement goals or how we're saving for retirement when it's just a single income household. Okay.

Starting point is 01:38:27 Well, we can start with that last one. The easiest answer is you invest 15% of whatever your household income is until the mortgage is paid off. So if it gets cut in half, you're investing 15% of that. Now the question is, can you live off that one income? Yes. Okay, great. Good. Good for you. Wonderful.

Starting point is 01:38:45 Thank you. So let's talk about indexed universal life insurance. I'm guessing this is somebody that you know or someone, a friend of a friend, that pushed this on you. Yeah, it was our estate attorney. He actually helped to set up our state and everything was great. And then he was like, hey, by the way. I want to tell you about IUL accounts and kind of transition.

Starting point is 01:39:07 You got an insurance agent as an estate attorney, which is scary. Okay. So they're selling you this insurance as a quote. I'm putting this in huge air quotes, a wealth building tool. And it's just a permanent life insurance policy with cash value, and it's indexed to the S&P 500 in generally. So you don't actually own any stock, but the gains are tied to the stock market. And here's what they tell you. Let me guess what the pitch was.

Starting point is 01:39:31 You'll get market gains with no downside risk. you get tax-free income, right? Yeah. These are the things they pitch you. Here's what they're not telling you. The agent gets paid almost your entire first year's premium in commission. Now do you know why they're so pushy about this? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:39:50 So they get huge commissions. A third of your money vanishes before you even get to see any of it. Their returns are terrible, like 3% after all these fees. And they cap, they say, hey, there's no downside. We'll cap it at 0%. So you can't lose money, quote, unquote. What they don't really tell you is that they also cap the gains. The stock market did 25% in 2024 and 2025. Guess what? You didn't make 25% on that money because they capped it at 10.

Starting point is 01:40:17 So you are way better off investing on your own versus giving this person 500 bucks a month for the rest of your life to get 3% returns. Just put in a high-yield savings account at that point and run away from this person. I wouldn't use them as an attorney anymore. I'm serious. The attorney's not actually selling them policy. They referred you to someone, right? Well, they just recently started working with these. So it's through Transamerica as the company. So they said, hey, you've got an insurance agent that has an attorney on staff.

Starting point is 01:40:47 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you need a different. It's sad. So, yeah, the product is absolutely horrendous. It's a horrible product. It's not technically a scam, but it's basically the payday lender of the middle class. It's not technically a scam, but it's just so bad that it feels like a scam.

Starting point is 01:41:10 And that's why they're so stinking pushy because they make so much on it. And if your estate planning attorney is willing to give you bad advice like this on this, what else are they giving you bad advice on? That's what scares me. They're probably pushing trusts on you that you don't need at that point. Yeah, you're $5,000 to develop this trust that you don't need. And so I think I'm looking for a new estate planning attorney, and I'm going to run away from this insurance agent at high speed. Okay.

Starting point is 01:41:40 Do you guys have term line? Oh, sorry. No. Well, I do to my company, but whereas I'm about to, you know, quit there, I need to. We both need it. Yeah, you need your own policies, not tied to your employers, 10 to 12 times your annual income, and if you stay home, you still need at least a half-million dollar policy on you. Yeah, so go to Xander Insurance and get your term life in place. And if you're going to do investing, you do that with a real investment advisor, not an insurance agent.

Starting point is 01:42:09 And insurance agents are not investment advisors. They pose as it quite often when they're selling this crap. But that's what this is. It's crap. So what you do is you get that term life insurance. It's going to be a fraction of the cost, like a tenth of the cost of this whole life deal. And then with all the extra margin you now have, because you didn't invest in this terrible insurance product, you can use that to build. wealth, and that's part of your 15%. So any extra money, let's start chunking it towards the mortgage

Starting point is 01:42:34 or to the kids' college funds. And you guys can build wealth without any of these terrible products. So you know from the baby steps, right, that baby step four, you put 15% of your income into retirement. Yes. Five is kids college and six is with any other money, we reduce the mortgage, right? Correct. Okay. It's not, there's no baby step that says, with any other money, we do other investments. IUL included. Okay, so there's not, there's not a place for this anyway. I'm not giving you a replacement investment option. Instead, whatever money you would have put toward this, I would put towards your mortgage.

Starting point is 01:43:12 And get a good smart investor pro for your investment advice that actually is an actual financial advisor. They're not an insurance agent. And, you know, get with Xander, get your term insurance in place, and then live on that one income. And you're going to be great. So, hey, and by the way, congratulations. you have a good nose. You smelled a snake. And you went, snake, snake alert.

Starting point is 01:43:37 I think there's a snake here. I'm going to call somebody and see if this is a snake. Oh, it's a snake. We didn't get bit because we recognized snakes. Yeah, that's good for you. You shouldn't get the call when someone says, hey, I got bit by a snake. I want to trust you. You know, if I'm you, you should feel confident in your own sense of smelling for snakes

Starting point is 01:43:56 because you smelled that one out beautifully. Well done. And usually if someone approached you, I would run. That's just a general take. You should be in control of the financial decisions you're making. Purs snatchers approach you. Exactly. He approached me in a dark alleyway and told me about this great investment opportunity.

Starting point is 01:44:13 You get mugged when you get approached. I don't trust anyone approaching me. Respect my personal space and boundaries, please. Hey, I've got an opportunity for you. Translation. My friend just joined a multi-level. Yes. It's just been approached.

Starting point is 01:44:31 It's someone they know. It's not a random thing. It's always a family friend told me about this and I trusted them or my estate attorney said I can trust this person. I never heard the estate planning angle. That's different. That's interesting. I wonder if they get in a kickback off of this.

Starting point is 01:44:43 Usually there's a filet mignon at the local steakhouse involved. Yeah. And that's for the annuities. That's when you get a nice dinner. Well, you can get the IULs with that too. And even even you can get infinite banking with that. The whole life, you can get all that. I'm tempted to sign up, similar to signing up for a timeshare presentation.

Starting point is 01:44:58 I'm not sad. I saw, oh, Charlie's closed up today. Oh. And so I don't know where they're going to hold these filet dinners now. They're going to have to switch over. Get a cheap filet and, you know, get sold on some not so cheap. Where are we going now? Bad insurance investment products. Wow.

Starting point is 01:45:15 Over to Shonies? I'm guessing they closed down, too. Whoa. Whoa. You just went way off the cliff then. Careful. Personal for Dave. Down boy. Down boy.

Starting point is 01:45:25 Man. That's another good indicator. If you get a piece of mail offering you a free dinner for anything, don't take it. Cook your own steak at home. You'll be better off. You'll be sitting through three hours and back. Get a wagoo and you'll save money. Serious money.

Starting point is 01:45:41 Just cook your own waggoo at home. It's way cheaper than getting ripped off of these people. That's so funny. Stephanie, trust your instincts. You have good instincts. Listen, guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money

Starting point is 01:46:37 where to go so you can stop wondering where it went. So if you're going to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. And the easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the every dollar budget app. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free. So no excuses. Download every dollar in the app store or Google Play today. Liz is in Orlando. Hi, Liz. How are you?

Starting point is 01:47:25 Good. How about you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I have a situation where my husband let me know last night that in three weeks, instead of living in the RV, I will, we're going to be moving into the house that's right now. next to the RV.

Starting point is 01:47:50 It's double our, what we pay right now. And the only way we're going to be able to afford it is if we move in with his brothers that have proven to be financially irresponsible in the past. And we actually have paid the price for it before. And I have no finances. I'm a stay-at-home mom to an 11-month-old. and I just, I feel stuck. You're living in an RV.

Starting point is 01:48:23 Yeah. Why? So when I had came back from trucking because I was trucker before this, we didn't have an apartment, but we did have enough money to buy an RV. And my mother-in-law offered to put the RV right next to their house and it would save us money in the long run, which is what I thought. But then I listened to some of your shows and I kind of understand your belief on the RVs. But by the time I made the decision, it was or heard the information, it was too late.

Starting point is 01:49:12 How long have you been married? I've been married two years. And before that, we were dating for two years. How old are you? I am 24-year-old. Where's your family? My family, I don't exactly have my family too close to me right now. They can't really help me.

Starting point is 01:49:48 I ask where they are. Um, they're, they're in, uh, Kisimi. Pretty close by. So you mean relationally they're not able to, they're not willing to help you're estranged from them? Yeah. Because they're not pleased with who you chose as a husband. Um, no, they don't know. I don't really tell them anything about my marriage. Well, I never did.

Starting point is 01:50:23 But I just... So you lived with his brothers before? No. So we have a pass... When I was trucking one of his brothers that's going to move in with us, he had ran away from home. and he ended up moving into our apartment. And so we gave him a list of things that he has to pay and rules he has to follow.

Starting point is 01:51:00 And I ended up having to pay a whole bunch of toll and stuff because he was using my car, which I allowed him to do, which was dumb on my end. But I allowed him to use it, and he never paid any of the tolls. How old is your husband? He has 25. And what does he make a year? He needs $23 an hour Okay

Starting point is 01:51:26 Is he working 40 hours? Is he working 40 hours? Yes, he works 40 hours He actually works overtime, most of the time Are you working at all within 11-month-old? No No That's fine

Starting point is 01:51:41 Okay Well, I don't know how to cause this family That is so messed up To suddenly not be messed up for your sake, I wish I could because I'm kind of scared for you right now. But, you know, your husband gets to decide with the next conversation with you, whether he wants you around or not. And so, and he may decide negatively, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:52:10 But I think you've already decided you're not moving into that house. And so the only question is, is when you guys sell the RV and go get an apartment, is he going to go? I truly don't know. Yeah, I don't either. But I think that's the question he needs to be asked tonight. Do you want to go with me because I'm leaving? I'm not going to stay here in the shadow of your mother and your dysfunctional brothers, and I'm certainly not moving into their house,

Starting point is 01:52:41 and we're selling this RV, and we're going to go build a life, a quality life together. And that's the only chance we have, honey. Otherwise, we're going to end up just like them. Look at them. Do you want to be them in 20? 20 years? I don't want to be them in 20 years. I can love them, but I don't want to be them. Yeah. And this is when people change their lives. They change their family tree. They look at the history,

Starting point is 01:53:04 and the history is in the rearview mirror, and they develop a future at the windshield. And the rearview mirror is smaller for a reason, because the future is bright, but only if you're driving away from the mess. and so, which is a pretty good metaphor for a truck driver, but right, but the, so, yeah, you, you know, I'm hoping that your husband's love for his new child and his wife supersedes his love for his dysfunctional mother and brothers. He's trying to figure out a place to put a roof over your head. He doesn't know how to do it right, and he's getting ready to do it wrong. And you know that, and that's why you call. So, you know, you guys are at a turning point and something dramatic is going to happen. And you guys just, you need to decide what it is.

Starting point is 01:53:58 It doesn't need to happen to you. You need to happen to it. And if you need some help, just call a local church. There's wonderful churches all over Orlando, Florida, and tell them you're 24 years old with an 11-month-old. And your husband just kicked you out of the RV and you need some help. And they'll help you. They'll help you get started. And you're going to have to get a job and build a life.

Starting point is 01:54:19 if he doesn't go with you. But your other choice is move in with the crazies over there, and I don't blame you. I think you're probably onto something there. Yeah. There's no good short-term story here. The best possible short-term story is he says, oh, yes, I want to be with my wife and child,

Starting point is 01:54:43 and we're going to load up the clothing out of the RV, and we're going to go get us an apartment. But I don't feel like that's a high-probability answer. Yeah, he says that I already talked to him about that. And he says that the apartments that currently are $1,500, and it would be cheaper either way to live with his brothers. Another option is pick the RV up and move away, 20 miles away, and get a place to park the RV temporarily until you can get it sold and get you an apartment. but you cannot continue down this path because you know what's going to happen.

Starting point is 01:55:22 You can see it and we can see it and we don't even know everybody involved here. It's just sadness. It's all toxic dysfunction and you know you're about to get dragged into it even further. So you need to realize you have agency in this marriage. So far you haven't had a vote because you haven't given yourself the ability to actually speak up and do something about it. And so for the sake of that baby, create a safe environment that actually you can throw. And that might mean some deep sacrifices for now where life looks hard. But I'd rather that than you move along with this move into this house.

Starting point is 01:55:55 Yeah, you fast forward the move that you're outlining. It doesn't sound good. And that's why you're calling because you know that. You know, we're not telling you anything you didn't know. You already knew all that, honey. But hey, reach out in the community. Get in touch with a pastor or two in the local area and some of them will help you. I promise you they will.

Starting point is 01:56:13 We know a lot of good churches in Orlando, a lot of good people down there that will help you. Even a good local women's shelter. You can give you some resources. Matter of fact, I'll put you on hold. Christian will pick up, and we'll hook up with some of the pastors we know down there. And we'll get some people on your corner. And that's with him, with your husband or without him. If he wants to help too, we'll help you guys.

Starting point is 01:56:34 We'll see if we get some people around you that love you well. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramsysolutions.com slash insurance. Our scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes, 4, 9, and 10,

Starting point is 01:58:07 two are better than one because they have a good return for their work. if either of them falls down, one can help the other up, but pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them. Jeff Parnas says about 9-11, when Americans lend a hand to one another, nothing is impossible. We're not about what happened on 9-11. We're about what happened on 9-12. Like that. Yeah. And we're also about what happened on 9-11.

Starting point is 01:58:38 I'm not going to forget it either. I'm not confused about what happened there. And I'm not going to forget that, but also we want to talk about how we can help and how we can gather around. And the thing that we all wished at the time, and we all knew, all of us that were old, especially knew at the time, was that the unity, all the political divisiveness, all the stuff dropped for a short period of time. Everybody was an American. And we knew it wouldn't last. We knew the trash and the filth and nastiness and the crazies on each side would raise up eventually. And they have.

Starting point is 01:59:17 And now they're back in full control again. But that moment in time when there was this beautiful unity was something else. I was on the air that day. I remember it was crazy. Absolutely crazy. So, yeah. 9-1-1. Brings up a lot.

Starting point is 01:59:38 And a lot of you weren't. and even born at that point. And wow, that's kind of wild to think about. 26 years old, right? Yeah. I mean, it's been 25 years since the date. So I was in middle school. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:59:53 Not listening to this show, unfortunately. I should have been. Yeah, come on, George. What kind of nerd are you if you're not listening to this show in middle school? I mean, that's a certified right there, baby. All right, Laura's in Phoenix. Hi, Laura. What's up?

Starting point is 02:00:07 I hope you are well, and I thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. So I am currently $70,000 in debt. I just started a new career, and I just found out I'm pregnant with my second child. I just want to know how I can prioritize paying off debt without putting myself in a worse situation. A lot of I and me, are you married? Yes, but it's complicated. He is not a citizen, so he's currently in his country still with our firstborn.

Starting point is 02:00:51 I had just taken him out there since I'm starting my new career until he's able to move out here and join me. When will that be? We're still in the process and the paperwork. It's looking like the projected time. It ranges anywhere from March of next year until as late. as August of next year. So how does income work? Is it just your income at this point?

Starting point is 02:01:20 Yes, it's just my income at this point. He doesn't work in his home country? He does, but how the money, what do you call it, converts, it's just not enough. What country is he in? He's in Egypt right now. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:01:40 All right. Yeah, so you're waiting on a visa and a green card. so that he's legal to earn an income in the United States while he awaits citizenship. So for the purposes of this call, we'll just assume it's you, 70 grand in debt and just your income trying to pay this off while pregnant. And a baby on the way, yeah. So what do you make in this new career? So I just graduated in accounting, so I just started a new accounting career making 82,000 a year. Awesome.

Starting point is 02:02:09 So that's doubled what I was making before. That's great. What kind of debt's the 70 grand? Okay, so it is 43,000 in student loans and about 6,280 for credit cards. I took out a title loan, which was so dumb, and that is $3,000. And then I have a by now pay later loan for $1,800. And then there's credit cards and collections. that are like a little bit over $15,000.

Starting point is 02:02:50 $15 grand in collections, okay. So you're not paying anything on that right now. They're in collections. No, that's not. And you're not paying anything on a student loan right now because it's been in hardship deferral. No, they're in deferral. Yeah, they're in deferral.

Starting point is 02:03:03 They're in deferral. Yeah. And so all we're dealing with is $6,000 in credit cards, a $2,000. Buy now, pay later. And that's on the car or on. on furniture. And the, sorry, the $3,000 title loan for the car. Yeah. Okay. So, and, and are you renting or what? Yes, I'm renting, and my rent is $13.89 per month. Okay, good. Okay, well, I want to make as much progress as I can in the next few weeks before we get too far down into the pregnancy process, okay?

Starting point is 02:03:43 And so you've got to get that title loan out. So your first goal is beans and rice, rice and beans, do a written budget. And I want your entire check to go towards just food, rent, and title loan. And I think you can clear that. I think you can clear that title. I think you can clear that title one loan in one month. I think so, too. I haven't gotten the first check yet because I just started about two and a half weeks ago.

Starting point is 02:04:12 but yeah, I think that can be finishing a month. Yeah, I mean, you should be taking home five grand a month. Okay, yeah. And three for the title loan and live on the rest and do nothing else. No investing. No, you don't know 401Ks, no investing, no nothing. Do you have any money in savings? No, I don't.

Starting point is 02:04:32 Okay, so we're going to get rid of the title one. That's thing one. And you have a working car that's paid off? Yes. Yeah, my car is totally paid off. Oh, wonderful. We'll get the title back and never do that again. Okay.

Starting point is 02:04:44 Okay, yes. And then clear the 1800, buy now, pay now later the next month. And shut down the account and cut up the credit cards. Because right now we are trying to stop the bleeding and stop us for making any more dumb decisions. Okay. Yeah. And so what I want you to do then is to start after you pay up the buy now pay now and you've pay minimums on the credit cards and nothing on the ones in collection, nothing on the student loans. And pay your rent and your food.

Starting point is 02:05:12 And I want you to stack cash. You need a war chest for when the baby comes. I want you to have $15,000,000, by the time the baby comes. And I don't know if you give advice on this, but I'm still in the process of selecting the medical insurance, and there is a high deductible option and the low deductible, and I just didn't know which one to choose

Starting point is 02:05:36 because of the amount that would be taken out of my check. I would investigate how they handle maternity in both cases. Ask HR to explain the maternity benefits in the two. policies and you need the most thorough maternity benefits, even if it's the low deductible. You may switch in a couple of years back to the high deductible, but probably you're going to be on the low deductible and get full coverage on this maternity. Okay. So it's not just about lowest premium.

Starting point is 02:06:01 It's what's the lowest total out-of-pocket cost to cover me through the pregnancy? Yeah, we're trying to have a baby without hardly any out-of-pocket. Okay. Now, who's going to be around you and help you and take care of you when the baby comes? I haven't figured that out yet. No, that's something we'll start working on. I'm also new to the area. No, you've got to start working on that.

Starting point is 02:06:25 Where's your family? I have family that's on the East Coast. Yeah. Well, do they know you have a baby on the way? No, I don't want to tell. I haven't told anyone yet. Why? I have a pretty dysfunctional family.

Starting point is 02:06:48 Do they know you're married? No. Oh. Okay. A lot going on here. Okay. So you got to create a village from scratch. Yeah, you need to get in touch with a good church and you need to get church people around you to love you and walk with you through this and give you support. And then you've got to decide, is the baby going to go in daycare after it comes and you're going to go back to work and continue your wealth building while your husband works on his visa and green card? Probably. It's probably what you're doing. And you probably don't have a lot of options because we can't really lose this. great job. That puts us our of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you

Starting point is 02:07:27 know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

The Ramsey Show - Normal Money Habits Don’t Build Wealth

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