The Ramsey Show - Personal Finance Means Balancing Intensity With Intentionality

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

📱Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. Dr. John Delony & Jade Warshaw answer your questions and discuss: "I feel like I'm allergic to spending money," "How quickly should I be paying off my house?" "When do we tell our kids about our wealth?" "Should I invest more or buy a BMW?" "My loan officer says I'm putting too much down," Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for18% off at The Nokbox 🏛Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan 🎁 50 days of Christmas deals are here! Get 30% off meaningful gifts 🛳️ Live Like No One Else Cruise 💼 Grow yourself and your business with real-life, real-time coaching to help you win in business and leadership  💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🎟️ See Dave and John LIVE in a city near you! Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Hey guys, this Christmas we're giving away cash. So enter the Ramsey $5,000 Christmas cash giveaway for your chance to win big this holiday season. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash giveaway to enter now. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, get out of debt, do work that they love, and have actual amazing relationships. I'm John Delaney joined by my good friend Jade Warshall on the night before the election. Oh, I'm going to have popcorn, I'm gonna have drinks. I'm treating it like it's a whole event.

I'm going to the woods and we are turning off the internet. I'm gonna put my hands and feet in things that are real, like dirt and leaves. I mean, here's why I'm treating it like entertainment because regardless of what happens, I'm going on with life and I'm gonna do the things that I know to do and I'm gonna love my family and I'm gonna go to work. I'm gonna keep going.

Jade, I don't think you've been spending enough time in the news because depending on what happens, America is either gonna make it or it's over. That's what they tell us. It's over. So, alas, now I'm with you. Yeah, I'll throw some popcorn to you out in the woods. So you know the way back.

That's right, hey, we'll need that. Taking your calls live, triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five, triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five. Let's roll out to Indianapolis, Indiana and talk to Chris. What up, Chris? Hey, Ramsey family, how are you? We're good, what's up, man?

Hey, I'm good. I'm fortunate to be where I'm at and I'm just kind of struggling with step seven a little bit where I feel like I've been able to pay off my house. I'm 41 years old and I'm at a place where I can start doing some good stuff for me and for everybody around me. I'm struggling with that and I don't exactly know how to do that where I just keep hiding my money away and it's going into the stock market and I don't know how to compartmentalize that. In counseling we call this the tyranny of accomplishing all your dreams because here's what you probably found out. Because here's what you probably found out. You cross this finish line and you don't owe anybody any money, right?

Right. I'm debt free. You cross this finish line and you are quote unquote a millionaire, right? Uh, on that. Close enough? I'm getting old. And now, every time you walk by the mirror, you're still you. Fair? Yeah. We're over expecting and under achieving. Well it's not even over expecting or under achieving, you're doing both.

You've achieved, you've expected and you've achieved. It's that you thought this was gonna feel different, didn't you? You thought somehow it would fix you from the inside out. Right. So what is it about Chris's life that you've set up that you don't love? I'm a little bit of a hermit and I just feel like I don't know exactly how to be good to myself or other people at this point where I'm able to have a little bit of free income to do some good and I'm like well where does that go? That's just a big question mark for me.

Money, having excess money absolutely sucks if you have no one to share it with. Well I was going to ask what was the purpose for you when you, I mean you're on baby step seven, that's no easy accomplishment. What led you to do all of that in the first place? Well it was just kind of ingrained in me. My parents were really good about coaching me and it was just, it was ingrained in me to save every little bit that I could and to work hard. So it was just you following directions there wasn't really a deeper meaning for you. I think so. I'm like I'm gonna have a midlife crisis. How old are you?

I'm 41. You're 21? I'm 41. 41. sorry, geez, 21, you're going to change the game on me. Are you married? No. No? Do you want to be? Someday. Okay. So, what does fun look like, man?

What does joy look like? What does giving look like for you these days? It's like being able to loosen the belt a little bit, and I don't feel like I allowed. Like I've been through so much of that where I'm just like keep it tight. Whose voice is that? Probably my own. Most of us now most of us have voices that are in our heads that we don't challenge and it's important to everyone someone else to stop and say wait a, I'm having some gummy bears. Who's saying I'm a piece of crap, right? Am I making a healthy choice? No.

But am I a terrible like, where does that voice coming from? Whose voice is that, Chris? It says there's always something bad around the next corner. Who's saying that? Is it the news? Is it your mom? Is it politicians? Is it an old coach of yours? Somebody has ingrained and is continuing to sit on your shoulder and pump information into your head that says, if you spend this money, do you know what's

gonna happen next? Do you know? Do you know? Do you know? Do you know what's gonna happen next? Whose voices? Um, I don't even know. I'd spend some time with that because John is teaching right now. I would really sit down and spend some time with that because he's not wrong. Here's what most people who have a scarcity mindset, and this is going to sound ridiculous to the rest of the world and I don't care. Chris, you want to path out of this for real?

Are you being serious about your question? Yeah. All right. You're going to have to put a budget line in money I will spend on myself, money I will take myself out to eat with, and most importantly money I will invest in taking, doing stuff with other people. Yeah. Now, I'm a fellow prepper. I'm a fellow scarcity minded guy, okay? I grew up, money was scarce, It was tough to come by. It was a lot of tension in my house.

That is in my nervous system. So one of the rules I have when I buy a concert, I could go to concerts by myself all day long and I know it's not good for me. And it's not fun. But I do it anyway. So now when I buy a concert ticket, I buy two or I buy four. A because I've been blessed and I want friends to go with me and have and if they can't afford it who cares I want to

take a group of guys I want to go have a blast. Right. See what I'm saying? So you have to put that in your budget and you have to hold yourself accountable the same way you held yourself accountable to getting out of debt. It's the same level of discipline and the same awkwardness. Mm-hmm. Because that's a big part of it is that it all feels kind of awkward at this point where I'm like, well, now what? Nothing good. Nothing good you're going to accomplish isn't awkward at first. You should go back and listen to the very first time I answered a call on the show.

It like redefines awkward, homie. It was so bad. True for all of us, by the way. James sent an email and was like, fire him now, fire him now. He still sends that email every week. Yeah, he still sends that email a lot. Do you have a couple of guys in Indianapolis you can start meeting with once a week?

Monthly. Monthly? Yeah, I'll work on that weekly. Yeah, I like that. That's my challenge to you. My challenge to you is to find a group of guys that you can start doing life with. And by the way, most romantic relationships come from one of two places. You run into somebody at work or you run into somebody that your buddy says, hey, you need to meet my friend so and so or my friend's friend so and so. A lot of it comes on the Internet, too.

But don't do that. Meet people in real life. Hang out with your buddies. We make that commitment. Yes, Jade, what am I missing here? I don't think you're missing anything. I think the the key here is money is supposed to be relational. And when you X that part out of it, it's it it kind of is like, why did I do all this? What was it all for? Yes. And so I think that's out of it, it's, it, it kind of is like, why did I do all this?

What was it all for? Yes. And so I think that's the part that's missing. Most of us have some sort of relational connection to our money and why we spend the way we spend and why we develop the habits that we develop. And it was kind of interesting because when you were talking about it, it really just sounded like someone told me to do this. So I just went out and did it.

And you never found your personal and relational connection to what it is and why you're doing it. But John just laid out a beautiful plan for you, and I love that. Here's what stinks about my life. Statistically speaking, maybe I got 45 years left, maybe. Oh gosh, John, this is getting dark, yes. But listen, I got about 45 years left,

and money's gonna allow me to stay alive, and to be super generous, and to have some great memories. That's right, that's right. And after that, I got about 45 years left and money's gonna allow me to stay alive and to be super generous and have some great memories. That's right. That's right. And after that, I'll be gone. That's right. Right? And so what are we actually gonna do with this stuff? We're gonna serve each other, we're gonna take care of our neighbors. That's the whole point.

And we're gonna have a lot of laughs. Yeah, that's why it says where your money is, your heart is also. It's a relational component. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Hey guys, George Camel here for Delete Me. I saw a headline the other day that made me squirm. This is The Ramsey Show, we'll be right back. and trade like Pokemon cards. And data theft happens all the time. Data brokers get your info, like your name, address, phone number, even your kids' names, and then boom, it's available to online bad guys. But to that, Delete Me says, not so fast. That's because Delete Me finds and removes your personal info from hundreds of these data broker sites, and they send you an easy-to-read report showing you exactly what they did and

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Christmas will be here before you know it. Yeah. And that means Ramsey has some epic Christmas deals happening right now. If you're looking for something to bring your family closer together this season, we've got you covered. Some of our most popular questions for humans decks are now just 12 bucks.

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a real difference. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash store and if you're listening on YouTube or the podcast you can click the link in the description. Check them out. Alright let's go out to Chi Town and talk to Matt. What up, Matt? How we doing, man? Hi, it's an honor to talk to you, Jayden John. It's an honor to talk to you, man. What's up? Thanks to y'all teaching. We're wrapping up baby set three, getting ready for four, five, six.

Yay. Yeah. Sorry. Get off 192K in debt. We have $410 on our mortgage. Our household income is $300k, 200 of which is from my job and 100 of which is from my wife's. Wow. Wow. Slow down. You don't just blow by that. I know.

That's lots of dollars. What do you do for a living? I'm a software engineer and my wife is an amazing nurse. Wow. You're debt-free. $192, two thousand you paid off how long did that take? We started in March of this year a hundred and twenty eight was an RV that we learned we didn't need okay, okay? Wow Wow, congratulations. I'm happy for you. This is good so much Okay, so as we get ready to term retirement back on we want to know where the back door well falls into this We've heard it's matched Roth traditional. We've also heard to match out traditional in 456.

So it falls in the same category. You're right. Match beats Roth beats traditional. So if you have a match with your traditional 401k, you would start there. If you had a Roth 401k, you could start there. Which one is yours? We both have a match.

We just weren't sure if the back door fell into the same order because of the taxes that we got to pay to open like the post-tax and convert. So it'd be slightly over the 15%. So just double checking that it was still matched back door off and then traditional. I would still do it that way. I do do it that way.

Let me just put it like that. Excellent. Does that answer your question? It sure does. Man, congratulations. Ding ding. Yeah, thank you all for that. You bet. Thanks for the call. Oh, dude. Hey, listen, we talk a lot on a podcast or like on the YouTubes. You're the one actually grinding this out on a day to day basis, making a budget, looking at your spouse and y'all saying yes and no and we're in or not. Like, you're the one making this thing work.'m proud of you dude hey why have you can I ask you a quick question you bet this totally unrelated to anything uh-huh thumbs up or thumbs down on AI are we doomed or are we gonna be alright you're a software engineer so you're the smartest guy I know on this topic oh man

I think we're gonna be okay I have no worries after finding the Ramsey plan though, so either way I'm gonna be okay. So if they take your job and you find yourself in a Illinois cornfield, you're gonna be okay? That's gonna be A-okay. Dude, listen to that guy. See James, we're gonna be all right. It's all gonna work out for us in the end.

All right, let's go out to New Orleans, Louisiana, and talk to Zachary. What's up, Zachary? Hey, what's going on guys? Thank you for taking my call. You got it dude. What's up? I just got a quick question about paying off my mortgage. I'm on Baby Steps four, five, and six right now. And I'm currently putting an extra $500 a month towards the mortgage. My wife and I bought it, a house back in March of this year. We put 15% down on it and been putting 500 down every month since we started making payments. But I'm just curious if I should be doing more. It depends on, it depends on if you want to,

listen, that 500 that you're doing extra every month is just busting your amortization schedule in the face like Mike Tyson, you're going to be done with this before you know it. And so at the end of the day, this is about you being intentional with your wife, you guys sitting down and saying, how much do we want to do it? You know, you're at the point where you should enjoy some of the fruit of your labor a little bit. And I, I can't tell you what that number is is but you can sit down with your wife and

decide. I like that you already have a regular kind of rhythm of how often that you pay and at this point it's about margin. How much margin do you want to put towards this and how much do you want to put towards living and enjoying your life? Well I guess that's the problem that I'm having is finding that line between how much do I want to enjoy what we've accomplished versus how much, you know, how quickly do we want to pay down the house?

Okay, then let me tell you a story because the best way to think of this is just in context of your life. So for my husband Sam and I, it took us seven and a half to 10 years to do the first three baby steps. Okay. And those do the first three baby steps okay and those are the most intense baby steps so by the time we got to baby step six we were like yo we've already spent a decade going hard in the paint so we do less like for us that line is a lot less it's like we're gonna enjoy our life a little bit more we're still being intentional over here but we're not

sweating to do this so I like to, listen, how long did it take you to do the first three baby steps? Because if it didn't take you long, if you had a windfall or you sold something, fine. Yeah. If you want to go a little bit more intensely now, that's fine. But if you've already spent years with your head down, there is a part of that that I want you to take a breather and enjoy life. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Cause it took me probably about three to four years because I was starting a new career when I started the process And so it just over time as I started to make more and more money through promotions and stuff

It took a while because I didn't have much margin to begin with uh-huh and um so I guess now it's Like a cash flow we cash flowed the wedding and the honeymoon. Yeah, good. All of that. So I guess now it's finding that, you know, that happy middle ground of still being intentional enough, but enjoying everything we've accomplished. Yeah. So after, let's keep the $500 going.

After that, what would you say your margin is for for fun money? Like after you've done all the things that make you a financially responsible adult? So it ranges. I'm actually a lineman with a local power company. Yes. So it just depends on the overtime. Some months it could be after everything's said and done, we've got a thousand to fifteen hundred. Sometimes it could be more. Okay, good. I think as long as you are, you guys are prioritizing your values as a family at this point.

If you guys value getting away, just you and your wife once a quarter and you're doing that. If you value taking a nice family vacation every year and you're doing that. I think as long as you're doing the things that you value as fun things, family things, memorable things, the things that make you feel like what I'm doing, the time I'm spending on my work is worth it, right? Cause you wanna feel like I'm working for something and now it's worth it.

As long as you're doing those things, if you have money above and beyond that, yeah, put it on the mortgage. Okay. Above and beyond the 500 is what I'm saying. Yeah, good. Jay, let me say this, and Zach, this is to you too, so everybody listening, but those seasons for me have ebb and flowed.

There's been seasons when I need to take a break, right? Yes, yes. And then there's been seasons when I wake up and I'm like, I can't owe anybody anything, and I re-get I can't know anybody anything. And I re get insane again. And for me, it's the same as yesterday. I was feeling extra stressy about the election stuff and all that.

I was in Kroger and I literally made this choice. I am gonna feel bad tonight and I'm gonna buy a bunch of junk food right now. And so my rule of thumb is I don't ever wanna fall off the wagon, but occasionally I'll park the wagon, climb down and roll around in the mud, and then I'll climb back in, right? I think we need that as human beings.

I think the key here is intentional. Like you and Sam, like a decade, we are intentionally gonna slow this thing down and we're gonna live our lives now. And on the other side, for me, I'm gonna intentionally dump gas on this thing because I am losing sleep over it I want to be gone. Yeah, but I think intentionality is that magic word. You're you're exactly right. I think you're talking to everybody That's such a relatable thing

There's that moment where that Terminator 2 red light turns on in my brain and I'm like we're dropping all the extra money on The mortgage and then there's like I need new recliners. Like I'm not playing this game right now. I need, mama needs to live. Like, so that is a very real thing when you're in baby steps, four or five and six. Um, just it's okay. It doesn't have to be balls to the wall. You can chill out a little bit. A little bit. This is the Ramsey show. We'll be right back. Hey guys, I've never done this before, but I'm partnering with a nutrition company, Field of Greens. Each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens is selected by doctors to support heart, liver and kidney health plus metabolism for healthy weight.

And your doctor will notice your improved health or Field of Greens will give you your money back. I can get behind a promise like that. Go to www.fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey and get 15% off with promo code Ramsey. fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm John Delaney joined by Jade Warshall. Taking your calls on money and life and relationships and work. All of it 88825-5225. Let's go out to Dayton, Ohio and talk to Kane. What's up Kane? Hey, how's it going? Doing alright man, how about you? Pretty good. I got proposed a business offer to take over a business from an older gentleman who has no kids and wants to retire. I wouldn't

have enough to put it all down, but I was just wondering what the cause would be of that. Okay. Were you working in the business before? How did you come across this offer? I actually reached out to do some private work through Facebook. The guy also has some rentals and he needed some employees. And yes, I have got my EPA certifications for refrigeration and I was a plumber for three years for a construction company. So what's the business? It's an HVAC and plumbing business.

Kind of a smaller town, but there's three of them collected together and there's quite a bit of work for that company. Okay. Okay. how's it doing? I mean, have you looked at the numbers and is it profitable? And if so, how well are they doing? No, that's kind of what I was, another thing I wanted to get into. I hadn't went across that bridge completely. I'm going to shadow them tomorrow and see how it's going.

I just, if it is profitable, I did all this research. Maybe you can tell me if I researched it right, but roughly two to three times the business yearly profits is usually what a business like that would go for. Okay. Being a smaller business. Yeah, you're right about that. It's a net present values with a call it. Okay. What I would not do is go down to a local bank and get a loan and buy this guy out or I wouldn't go call the SBA and take out SBA loan and try to buy this guy out.

No, negative, yeah. This guy said that the guy that he originally started from, he did it as a private deal. I think he said 20 grand down and skim the profits off to him as payment until the business was paid for and then it was essentially his. That's not a bad idea if you just say, hey, I want to receive a salary from the business, but you're paying all the profits back to the seller until he receives the full amount.

You could structure something like that. Because that way you're not in debt to him and you will have made a salary for your work over X number of years. And let's say you have to walk away, or the economy implodes, or whatever happens, you won't be stuck with a worthless business, and yet the bank is still calling the note on your loan. Okay.

Do you get what I'm saying? This is also better for the seller, because this is better for the seller, because anybody who's gonna to come in with maybe cash or credit or some sort of investor is probably going to lowball them because they have debt on it as opposed to you who's saying, hey, I value the business that you're in, let's work together, keep the valuation that you have. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And I just kind of wanted to make sure that I didn't go down the wrong rabbit hole of looking into this. I'm going to make up completely, I'm going to completely fabricate numbers here, okay? So don't use my math, just kind of get the spirit of what I'm saying. Let's say after all expenses were paid,

this business is sitting on $350,000 cash end of every year. You've already done your depreciating assets, you put money aside, you've got all that stuff taken care of, you paid all your bills. And you decide I'm gonna take home a hundred K a year as a salary as the owner as the president of this company. I'm gonna pay him and let's say we decided on a million dollar sale price. I'm gonna give him $250,000 over four years and at the year four this will have this will be signed over to me.

I'll own the whole thing. Okay. That's different than going to a bank and saying I need a million dollar loan. 100%. And I'm gonna write him a million dollar check and then I'm gonna hope that I make that back over the next four years. Okay and as well as hope the market doesn't crash in that particular business. Let's say, here's the worst case scenario for you and for him. Worst case scenario is the market crashes in two years. Nobody wants a plumber anymore. Yeah, business is bad.

Which, by the way, if we're in that world, I don't want to be in that world, right? I think we're always getting plumbers, right? But let's pretend that happens. And that happens in two years. You will have made a hundred grand a year as the president or CEO, whatever you want to call yourself, of this company. He will have made 250 grand a year. So he would have received $500,000.

And that's under the made up numbers I'm just using. Then it all falls apart. It all goes away. And you come to him and you say, hey, I'm tearing this contract up. I'm walking away. And he says, I'm gonna sue you. But he still has a half a million dollars that he has earned over two years. You have been paid for your wages, and there's not a bank saying, hey I want my money back. Right. Do you get the difference? And now he may look at you and say go jump in a lake, I'm not doing this. We're gonna structure a dollar amount and you're gonna owe me this dollar amount. Jade and

I would just tell you, four years, five years, six years, who knows what the world's gonna look like? That's another presidential election away, let me put it that way. Who knows what the world's gonna look like? That's another presidential election away. Let me put it that way. Who knows what the world's gonna look like? So I would not put myself on the hook like that downstream. Right, right. And that kind of really solidifies my answer. I was leaning towards it, but I just, you know, I am doing the baby steps.

I haven't particularly went through it, but I do have enough for six months wages and I am investing 11% into retirement. What is the amount of the business? What is he selling it for? Like I said, I hadn't quite gotten into that. Maybe I should have had that information before I called you guys,

but I'm gonna job shadow him tomorrow and kinda after the day, you know, make sure that he is really a profitable business. Not after the day, you know, make sure that he is really a profitable business. Not after the day. I would do this for a little while. Yeah. How old are you, Kane? I'm 22. Okay, I'm gonna say something and not at you. I'm gonna say it with you, okay? Okay. You're wandering into what I call adult land. Big boy, big girl land, okay? Okay. And that's when you say things like I need to see the last four years of your books, the last five years of your books,

I need to see all the outstanding debts, I need to see any notes you have called, and I'm gonna have an accountant look over it all. And can I, can I, can I, I'm rolling the canoe back for a minute. Everything that John said and everything that I've said about structuring this deal is accurate. I don't like this for you I'm just gonna come out and say that because I want to go on record as saying for you at your age I'd like you to get your feet what starting your own business first before you just up and Take on something that there's so many learning curves. I think up and take on something that, there's so many learning curves, I think, in business.

And I would love for you to learn those with lower stakes before you come in and learn them with high stakes, where there's really a lot of money on the line and there's a timeframe. Employees and equipment. Yeah, and there's a timeframe where you're having to, kind of, yeah, like if this is the salary that I'm paying back, I'm getting my salary,

I'm paying him back, there is gonna be a term to that and you are going to have to make good on that, depending on how you structure it. So, Mama J doesn't like this for you yet. I'm just going to say that. So let me ask you, what's the difference going to be between you running out and getting your own business? The clientele market is pretty stiff. The reason why they're loyal to him, so to speak, is because he takes service calls. So if the furnace goes down at midnight, he will be there at midnight. And he's a one man show. You can be amazing at your job. You can know HVAC very well. You can be good with customers. It doesn't mean you're good at running a business.

Yeah. And that's the part that I want you to learn on your own first. Are you an organized person? Are you good with operations? Are you good with logistics? Are you good with handling, you know, all of those ins and out payroll?

Like, are you good with that stuff? Because if it's a one man show, it is requiring you to wear all those hats. And the truth is, no one gets it all right the first time. Like there's quite a learning curve there. And I, like I said before, I love for you to learn that with lower stakes. And dude, I'm gonna recant on my support too.

Here's why. You just said this is a one man shop? Uh, his wife actually, uh, writes down the payroll and they take it to an accountant. Okay, so it's a one employee shop. So what you're buying is... His book of business. His book of business. You do not need to do that. You need to open up a local Facebook marketplace ad and say I will be there 24 7 365 midnight 2 a.m. I will be there and you're gonna get a few calls you're gonna show up at midnight and you're gonna start your own business. You don't buy somebody's clients from them in this one-man shop kind of way. I

mean you can do that I wouldn't do it if there's a big company maybe but yeah I'm recounting on my offer. I am too. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This month is all about gratitude and most of us have people in our lives that we're grateful for. One of those people for me is the wonderful Marilyn Fanon. She gave me a chance, she taught me poise and professionalism, and she challenged me. But there's one person that we often don't take time to thank, ourselves. We don't always acknowledge that we're barely surviving or that we're moving forward or that we're working towards a better life and better relationships. And in a world where

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We are on election eve. Indeed. Did you want me to say more? No, I just like to feel the tension. People are driving, they're squeezing their they're squeezing their their steering wheel a little bit tighter. Oh, yeah.

Or they're like doing construction work and they're just turning the wrench a little bit harder. I should have went dun dun dun. I know this could be the last podcast ever produced. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YRefi, talk about, that was a great transition.

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Go to Yreify.com slash Ramsey today to learn more. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey and this may not be available in all states. That's a big deal. Wow. Okay, today's question comes from Maggie in Utah. She says, my husband and I are in our early to mid 50s and he plans to retire at 60. I'm not sure when I will retire. We have about 3.5 million in assets.

Our children are 16 and 21. When is the right time to sit down with one or both of our kids to go over our assets in case something happens to us? I think our 21 year old son would not be affected by the news and go on about his life as usual if we tell our Daughter who's 16. I'm afraid she will get stars in her eyes about all the things she could buy We don't plan to die soon, but you never know what could happen in life. Yeah, I think that's a great question. I wonder, it's all really going to be based on what your will is and what you plan to do with this money.

I mean, obviously, I would not have this set up, John, that if something happened, like if something happened to Sam or I, the kids aren't getting all of this money lickety split. Correct, right. It is something that will come in increments at certain age points with other certain things in intact. Like to Dave Ramsey's point, you can't be on drugs to get this money, right? There you go. And so I'm not sure what your plan is, Maggie, but I want to make sure that's not the case because an 18-year-old suddenly getting a million dollars is doesn't usually go

well. Yeah I'm reading this as she's wondering when do we sit down and tell our 16 and 21 year old that we have three and a half million dollars in assets and here's how we're going to divide this up. I and and to my to my point that I'm trying to make is I want to make sure they have the right plan in place first so that when they do tell them it's not, hey, and by the way, when you're 18, you're gonna get a million dollars. So I think the way to avoid stars in the eyes is to say, here's what's gonna happen. If we were to pass away, here's what would happen.

You would be gifted the money to pay for school, and at this age you'd be given the money to have a down payment on a home, and at this age you'd be given, and walk through it so that at every point in time, it's you're receiving this money and here's what it's for as opposed to and you're just going to be Scrooge McDuck rolling in bills, right? So I think it's all about how you have it set up, how you speak

about it. And truly, all of this is about what you've been teaching over time, right? From the time they were eight years old, you know, or younger about how to handle money. And so the hope is that the 16 year old will have some level of, okay, you know, and as she gets older, even more level of, okay, this is, I have to be a manager here. This is not the key to unlock my whole life and I get to be irresponsible with this.

Yeah, I think the age appropriate is the words that manage here. And quite honestly, I would not sit down. It depends on your 21 year old. I think I would tell my 16 year old that, hey, if we ever, if mom and I, something happened to dad and I or mom and I, you're gonna go live with so and so until you turn 18.

And we've put together some things. They would sell the house so that you can afford to go to school. And what else? Like they'll sell the house and you'll be taken care of and we'll cross that bridge when we get there. The DD details don't need to be talked about at that point. 21 year old, I think a little bit more, hey if we ever passed away and you wanted to keep this particular rent house, we'll talk about that, but you'll let us know and we'll begin to slowly balance those things out. My 14-year-old knows if mom and I were to die,

we have some things that would sell that we take care of his schooling and he'd be going to live with so-and-so. My eight-year-old knows you're going to be going to live with so-and-so. It's just age specific. I think Rachel Cruz says share don't scare. That's right. And I like that. So sitting down with your eight year old and being like, one day mom and I are gonna die. Like that's a lot, right?

Yeah. Letting them know, hey, we have a plan. If something ever happened. Yeah, you're all good. We're gonna be okay. And we want you to just be able to be sad. And then Rachel and Dave has been pretty open about his story.

They didn't know the full extent. They knew mom and dad were well off. They did not know Dave Ramsey well off until they had graduated and they were married and they were moving on with their lives. And then they sat them down, but they had a detailed plan. And then there's some different levels of specifics you can get to there.

So share, don't scare and developmentally appropriate. I don't know that the dollar, dollar, dollar amount, I don't know that you ever need to sit down and go through each detail, unless you want to say like, hey, this house right now is worth about this. Oh, I think at a certain age, I probably would. Like depending on your wealth. 21, 25?

Yeah, I mean, to Dave's point, they kind of, they have a rhythm for them, it's yearly I think. Now they do, now. But like, depending on what that is, maybe it's every couple of years, you're like, hey, as you see big changes in your wealth or in your state, whatever that is, it might be worth it to do that.

But I think as much transparency as you can at the right age is a good thing. Kids wanna know, are we gonna be okay want to know are we gonna be okay and Are we gonna be taken care of I think she's right to think yeah, if you tell a 16 year old Hey, if we die, you get 1.7 million dollars sleep with one eye open. I wouldn't tell them You're out of your mind. I mean you're out of your mind. Let's go to H tone and talk to Eric. What up Eric? How we doing? Hello, what's up? What's up guys? So I'm 21. I make 110. I'm going to make 110k this year. Okay. And my problem is I have a 21 year old car that isn't running as well

as used to. Okay. So because of that I'm looking at a something a little more fun, a BMW, 330i. Okay. And I'm stuck on if I should give in and enjoy a newer, well, it's going to be used for the use a newer vehicle. It's a 2021. Okay. Or if I should keep the money, cause would cash it out, keep the money to further

invest since I do invest pretty aggressively, I'd say. What percentage are you putting away? Investments probably at least. Off your gross. I'd say at least 30%. 30%. Okay. How much will the BMW cost? Uh, after taxes, it should come out to about 29 30. Okay. 30k. Okay. Um, and tell us more about your, the rest of your financial snapshot.

I want to know how long you've been making this income. I want to know if you have any debt and I want to know your living situation. Okay. And I want to know your living situation Okay, so last year I made a hundred and three this year 110 What do you do man? My barber Wow are you one of the barbers that I see on the internet that makes hair out of no hair? That you like Wow anyway, I've seen some things on the internet cut in here I'm sorry you make a hundred and ten grand cut in here yes I love

this country way to go go dude so so you're on the uptick um that's that's really really great and it's just your business. You've been investing 30% do you have any debt? I did go on a trip recently I ran up a credit card. Oh I don't like it. Okay how much did you run it up? It's like 4500. Okay that's a lot. What kind of trip did you go on? I went to Japan. Okay. You're living that life 22 years old. Jeez Louise man. Any other debt? No, well I do have two investment properties in Ohio. How can we forget about that? In Ohio? Okay so you're just to remind people you're in Texas and so tell me about these investment properties in Ohio. Oh, wait, I'm gonna get, wait a minute.

I'm against the clock. I'm gonna tell you what my thought for it is for this. I don't think you've learned enough about how to manage your money properly yet. I think you're doing really good financially with your income, but I want you to learn more about how to manage debt and the right way to buy real estate.

For me, you buying this car right now feels reckless because you haven't learned everything you need and it's a slippery slope for you. So I'd say no right now, keep diving into the Ramsey material. Get a Camry, my man, and sell those rental properties in Ohio. But congratulations on being $110,000 a year barber.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions just outside of Nashville, Tennessee, it's The Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, get out of debt, find work that they love and learn how to have great relationships and emotional and mental health. I'm John Delaney joined by my great friend, Jade Warshall. We are taking your calls on election eve. Oh yeah. 888255225. Jade and I were just making bets.

Yeah, we were talking about if you had to put actual cash, cause you, by the way, you can bet on the election, which is sick and sad, but if you had to put cash money on the line, who do you think would win? It was an interesting conversation. And back in where the personalities, where our offices are, Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz are back there and they are lit up like a Christmas tree.

This is like, this is like all 10 Super Bowls into one. And for me, I'm gonna get off the show today and head to the woods and I'm not gonna come out until this whole thing is over. So it's the opposite of that for me. So I want to make sure my chickens are okay and that they're still producing eggs in case this whole thing.

I will definitely watch and I will, we will all be okay. Of course we are. We'll be okay. We gonna be all right. Unless this other candidate wins. And then it all comes down. Let's go out to Sacramento, California and talk to David.

What's up? There you are. What's up, David? Hi, thank you so much for picking up my phone call. But anyways, my question is this. I'm about to close my escrow and the current interest rate that I'm locked in is really high, it's like 6.875.

Okay, and And my loan officer Tells me hey, don't worry about it in about a year. You know two years down the line Interest rate was gonna go down. You're gonna refinance. So that's fine And I want to put it I have the potential to put in a lot of money, like upfront, because from the calculation from your show, teaches me how these things work, right? And so it's just mathematics.

Yeah. And so my loan, so I'm shopping around, I'm shopping around with two different loan officer along with my realtor, and they all wonder, why would you wanna to put money up front because Financial advisors they just want to get you in this house and they're thinking they're filtering it through what they would do a lot Of people you know

It's human nature if you give advice you're kind of giving advice based on what you might do and a lot of these loan officers for homes they most of their life is people trying to scrape together and based on what you might do. And a lot of these loan officers for homes, most of their life is people trying to scrape together and mow lawns to get that 2.999 up to 3%. It's so hard to find people who actually save money like you, David. Okay. It's just rare. So I just wanna make sure that my math,

it's not wrong somewhere Where they so they suggest this save your money now and wait until you refinance. Let's say right now. I'm at six point eight, right? Okay into it Let's say it goes down to four and then put in all the money in when you refinance to a four percent and and I'm punching My number I'm like no still it won't benefit me by putting it in later in life versus now And even if later in life, it's also a year later. And you can't predict the future. That's the truth. We can speculate and say, here's what we think will happen. But the truth is, I mean, the Fed lowered interest rates

and it had an adverse, an adverse effect on the home market temporarily, I think. I think there's a lot of things that affect that. But right now, those home loans went up just slightly, you know, those interest rates. And so you never know what's going to take place. We're in an election cycle. You don't know. I mean, I would tend to agree.

Yeah, I think over time, mortgage rates are going to go down and you'll be able to refinance. But you truly don't know. You have the money here and now and you'll be able to refinance. But you truly don't know. You have the money here and now and you have the ability to affect how you want your mortgage to feel here and now. And so if you want to put as much down possible, I vote for that because when you put as much down possible,

yeah, it's definitely lowering your payment. It's ensuring equity and it's getting you to the point of payoff a lot faster. And then yeah, in two years or whatever, if you want to refinance to get that lower rate, yeah, it's up to you to do so. David, how much are we talking here? Like, how much cash are you sitting on that you're debating and whether to put down or not?

I, uh, with all the, uh, minus, minus, um, uh, my closing costs, I have about $65,000, you know, sitting on a side collecting at only at only four percent, you know in How you'll tell you Yeah, okay. So it's only it's only cutting at four percent while you know, my interest rate is at six point eight right now So it's more beneficial putting in the house instead of just let it sit there at four percent. What um, What's the total purchase price of this house? The total purchase price is $4.85 and I'm putting down 25% already

but I want to put in more but they're like why would you want to do that? I think they just don't understand that way of thinking. I think most people are not thinking about the idea of paying off a mortgage. Yeah, it's just not in people's mind. The minimum possible to get in the house is enough for you is a lot of times where people's mind is at. And can I throw an alternative in there that will just throw a wrench and all this for you, David?

Okay, okay. It's a different calculation that I do. I am not a number savant. I'm just not. I'm just not quick. Like Dave, I sit by Dave, I sit by Jay. They just do math in their head. It's amazing. I just, I can't do that. Here's the different calculation I make.

What job do you have? What do you do for a living? So I'm basically, I am in clinical trials. In clinical, okay. So you do, you do R&D, you do research? Yeah, yeah, research, yeah. Okay, so let's say one of the new candidates comes in and just cuts off NIH funding all of a sudden, or does something, like warp speeds it again,

like Trump's Operation Warp Speed, right? And suddenly dumps a bunch of money and you get to skip the third step and go straight to market. Like either way, imagine your job goes away and you have to go find other work. The reason I would vote to put all the money down aside from the math and you've done the math, right?

And so you're seeing it, it would be quote unquote, making six point whatever percent, what my APR is, because it's only making four in this place. And I could put in mutual fund, and there's gonna be the TikTok bros, they're like, bro, the gap, the spread, all that. But you're doing the math, right? The additional layer of peace that I would solve for in my house as a non-numbered guy

is if I lost my job but my mortgage was only $2.75 instead of $3.50, would that lower my payment enough that I could go get down the street and get a regular job and keep my home? Okay. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. And so I in my house when I've taken out mortgages I solve for peace. I care more, I call it a sole tax. I will pay 2% or 4% on, I will pay that so that I know if I got fired or if my job went away I could go find another job or two and keep my home so my wife and my

kids would not have to move. And I know that can be stretched out and well if you keep your 65 grand in an emergency fund then you've got that to spend, I get all that. If I'm going to sign up for a mortgage, I want that payment to be something that I could absorb if and when something happens. And you're in a field, I'm in a field. Who knows what happens to us the day after tomorrow, right? And so I want to take as much risk off the table on these low level on this side of the barbell. And that is, is my housing

covered? Is my four walls covered? Do you have an emergency fund? I do. Yeah, dude. So that's all I'd say is, dude, I would solve for peace here. You've done the math and you're right on the math. I would solve for peace and put this money down on a house and take out a smaller mortgage as possible. Make the bank the least amount money possible at your expense and be able to take care of yourself

if something were to happen to you. Does that sound right? Okay, yeah, sounds good. Thank you so much for your confirmation. You're on it. Okay, here's the hard truth. Your investment dollars could be winding up in the pockets of companies that hold positions you don't agree with.

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Every dollar. All right, let's go out to ATL Atlanta, Georgia and talk to Fancy Nancy. What's up Nancy, how we doing? I'm doing fine, thank you. Thank you for taking my call. I just need some assistance and I know that y'all will be able to help me. But I'm 59 years old and I've been married for 37 years. I was a stay-at- home mom and I homeschooled my three kids. Um, but I'm currently in divorce proceedings.

Oh gosh, I'm sorry. Yeah, it was, um, do the emotional abuse and anger and rage and, um, he's unwilling to address any issues and so there's no trust and safety in our relationship. So I have actually been in Financial Peace University, he was not involved in our finances and I begged him for three decades to get involved but he would just ignore me. Although I went through financial peace university and I did

all the baby steps. We owe 55,000 on our house which is worth about 430. Otherwise we have no debt. But because we've never been on the same page with our finances, we never really saved anything. And he liked to eat out a lot. So we wasted a lot of our money. But in retirement, if we were together, we were planning on using some money that his parents left us. How much is that? And it's about 800,000 right now. And later on in life, he started a 401k, which has about 300,000 and I have a small one

and we have some small HSA. But the last major outburst, he basically told me he was going to destroy me. Oh, I'm sorry. Because, yeah, sorry. That's okay. Destroy you financially or physically? Well, financially, I believe.

He never did it. He was just more emotional and kind of cruel and stuff. Have you met with a divorce attorney? I'm assuming you're in proceeding now? Yes. And we're going to mediation. And I just wanted advice on what to think or how to proceed because my lawyer that I think is really good, you know, he said just come up with a good, better, best options and we're gonna get together and talk some more, but my husband talks about, you know, his salary and this

inheritance being all his and I just don't know what to expect. No, I mean, he's not right. Yeah, he's not right and he's bluster. And so here's what I would not do. If he's not trustworthy in most of the other aspects of your marriage, I wouldn't suddenly go full trust on this bluster. Okay. He is trying to flex his muscles on a situation that he is losing control of, like through like sands in an hourglass, right? And so I can't give you legal

advice. I think your attorney knows the laws of Georgia and knows what mediation looks like in the state of Georgia, and that's different across the board. But I will say from my experience, that sounds about right. You laying out and saying, okay, here's what this looks like and what does it look like to split things? And as part of a divorce, I would make peace with probably we're going to have to sell the house and split those assets. And you should by the way, and get out of that unless somebody wants to buy somebody else out from this house and the inheritance and the retirement accounts those things usually get split up in some shape form or fashion and after 30

years together and you staying at home for 30 years taking care of the household you generally speaking are entitled to half of that estate depending on what what's going on. But I can't give you any details on that. I think your attorney's right on though. Okay. I was going to ask about the house. Like I don't want to stay there. And he was thinking about buying me out. Great. And I just didn't know if that's a good option or not. That's great. Or we should just sell it and okay. That's I mean if he wants to buy you out, that's great. You'd still get your cut regardless. Six one half does another for you if you don't want it. Yeah. And then I mean

essentially based off of what you've said you didn't say how much is in your 401k. Do you know off the top of your head? Well, I never really worked. So yeah, it's like top of your head? Well I never really worked so yeah it's like 60,000. Hey Nancy, Nancy I want you to change that language please okay? Okay. You, you, you built and held together a home for three decades. Okay. Mm-hmm. I want you to stop saying that you don't have any economic value in this arrangement because you didn't quote-unquote punch a clock in an office You've been working your butt off for 30 years. You've been keeping the finding keeping the books You've been trying to manage the emotional safety of that home for 30 years

Dave gave me a line He he gave me a Quote that has really proven instructive here okay once somebody files for divorce the marriage is effectively over it is now a business arrangement we are untangling business assets and the reason you hired an attorney is because they will come in, they will know the law, they will be a hired gun on your behalf, that's their job, and they do not bring 30 years of emotional pain and hurt into the negotiations. So I want you to let

your attorney do their job. Okay. So I want you to let your attorney do their job. Okay. Okay, I want you to keep your integrity about you. And sometimes attorneys want to settle this thing for as low as possible because they're gonna take their cut either way. And some will look at you and say, no, no, no, I'm gonna do it right by you.

Okay, let them do their job. But I want you to throw your head back, throw your shoulders back. This is a business, this is a business deal now and we're going to do what's right. And you constantly telling yourself, I didn't even work for 30 years. This is not true. You've been working a lot. Okay?

Yeah. A lot. Cool? Yeah. Can I tell you something else? Can I give you a homework assignment? Sure. How old are you right now? I'm 59. Okay, I want you to write a letter to 63 year old Nancy. Okay. I don't want you to tell her that you're doing hard work right now so that she will be safe. She'll have a place to live that's hers and she'll have some economic stability and that

because of the hard work and the grieving you're going to do right now, she's going to be okay. Okay. All right? I don't want you to imagine her having a cup of coffee in a safe house surrounded by her kids, surrounded by some goofy dog Because you're not a cat person. I can already tell that thank God right you're a doctor But I want you to begin to picture

Exhaling when you come home not your chest tightening up Okay Okay, because that's been happening to you for too long, right? Yeah, yeah, we're done with that now I'm so sorry that this is happening to you. Let your attorney do their job. Yeah, am I missing anything Jade? Um, I think you're gonna come out of this. Okay with the assets that you guys talked about you're gonna be alright You're gonna need to work with an advisor and when the time comes we want you hooked up with a Ramsey smart Vestor Pro In your corner to help you go through this. But you're going to be all

right. The money is there. I've been doing this show for over 30 years. And some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills? How about next week? Yeah, in the middle of all that grief, like it's just it is, it's terrible.

So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not gonna be here. You gotta say it out loud and you gotta say I'm gonna say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com.

Hey folks, Dave here. If you haven't booked your cabin on the Live Like No One Else cruise, now's the time because it's 90 something percent sold out. You do not want to miss joining me, the Ramsey personalities and amazing guest entertainers for the ultimate debt-free celebration. We'll be sailing the Caribbean March 22nd through the 29th 2025 stopping at the incredible Turks and Caicos, Puerto Rico, St. Thomas and the Bahamas. Hurry to secure your spot with a $600 deposit today at ramsysolutions.com slash cruise Welcome back to the Ramsey show triple eight eight to five five two to five taking your calls live on life money your mental

Emotional health your relationships your work all of it call it just about anything. We probably got an opinion on it All right today's Ramsey Network app question. So we have the Ramsey Network app. It's where you can go to get the show. You can get video of the show. You can get all three hours of the show. It's kind of where all the cool kids hang out these days. But we also have an opportunity to take questions in the network app. And so we've got one from Parker here. Here's what Parker asks. He says, I'm 23 and I'm currently living with my parents, but I wanna move out of state to be with my fiance. Okay.

I have a job lined up and she has an apartment we're gonna be living in while we both work to save up for a home. The problem I'm having is my family. The problem I'm having is my family. The problem I'm having is my family because they don't like the idea. My parents have always believed in being married before moving in together and their stance

is making it hard for me to make a decision. What can I do moving forward to show them that my moving away doesn't mean I'm betraying anyone? Sounds like a Bon Jovi lyric. I just wanna live my life my way. It's my life. Now or never. Here's the deal, brother Parker.

Rock on to the break of dawn, dude. If you wanna live your life your way, go live it. Bobby Brown said it. The fact that you are having this much stress in your decision making means you don't want to just live your life your way. You want to live your life your way and have everybody else in the world go along

with the way you think it should all work. And you want people with wisdom to be quiet and just do what you want them to do. And you want people with opinions or have data or whatever to just shut up and let you do your thing. So if you wanna go do it, go knock your lights out. But I don't think that's what you just want. Yeah, I got a hot take on this. You know, like I said, Bobby Brown, it's my prerogative.

You can do what you wanna do. Like you can, but I think, this is just what I think. I think when you're brought up a certain way and you, and in this case, I'm just gonna side with the parents. I think this is the right way. I think it's a good idea to not live together before marriage. There's so much research around that.

Anyway, I think when you are stepping out of safe boundaries and good boundaries, I think that what you're feeling is your heart going, this is not the right thing. And I think it's easier for you to say, it's my parents. I think it's you. I think you know this is not a good move for you. And you're trying to go beyond it under the guise of,

it's my life, I get to do what I wanna do and why don't I feel good about this? I actually think it's your conscience going, this ain't it, Parker. And I think you should listen to that. That's what- It's saying it, Parker. going that this ain't it, uh, Parker. And I think you should listen to that. That's what it's saying. It Parker, Parker, this ain't it. And so I think that's what's happening because I know, you know, you talked about the voices in your head. Um,

I have multiple voices in my head. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? The idea that you hear the people who, who you allow to speak in your life, whether in a negative way or in a positive way, you, their voice lives rent free in your life, whether in a negative way or in a positive way, their voice lives rent-free in your head, right? Dave Ramsey's voice will always live rent-free in my head when I go to pull something off of a shelf that I have to pay for.

I always hear him in there. Anyway, you hear your parents' voice. And so I know if I had tried to strike out and move in with my boyfriend, I would have heard my dad's voice in my head like, whoa. And I think that that's what's going on and maybe listen to it because your parents raised you. The fact that you're writing into this show

lets me know that you have somewhat of a good head on your shoulders, maybe listen to them. And I think it's good to call it, forget all of the wisdom your parents wanna pass along to you and whatever, their old fashioned or it's just their dumb church, whatever you wanna say about it.

The research says couples who play house, they, and again, it makes sense on paper. I'll go with you, it makes sense on paper. Before- Because you think you're testing it out. That's right, before we do this forever, let's try it out for six months, let's try it out for a year.

That makes sense on paper. What it doesn't take into account, and that may work with a car, right? try it out for a year. That makes sense on paper. What it doesn't take into account, and that may work with a car, right? It may work with a car. But people aren't cars. And the only way marriages work long-term, the only way romantic relationships and partnerships work over time

is there has to be a tethered in commitment that says this cannot end. That's right. Otherwise, it will. Talk to anybody who's been married for any length of time and they'll tell you, oh yeah, if that thing wasn't in concrete, we would have gone our separate ways

for any number of reasons. And so it always comes back to this promise, I will be right here and we'll figure this thing out. And so you end up living separate co-managed, co-everything co- everything lives instead of creating a new life that has one entity moving forward. It's hard, right? It's hard.

I also think it's a guys. I think it's, you know, if you're dating someone and you decide, I know I'm gonna use old school language here, you decide to go steady or like, hey, it's just us. Like we're not gonna see other people, whatever you wanna say. That right there kind of has, that's about the, before you're married,

that's about as far as the relationship goes before you get engaged, of saying, I'm only gonna date you and only you, but our lives are intertwined, so I kind of have the report I can pull if you turn out to be a psycho or you turn out to be not the one for me, right? But then we've told ourselves,

hey, I can take this commitment a step further by saying come move in with me, or you move in with me. But it's really the opposite, because you're saying, you're telling yourself this is me displaying another level of commitment, but it's really you showing a level of uncommitment by saying I don't wanna marry you, but I wanna intertwine our lives,

but I also wanna know that I can pull that same rip cord. That's right. And so for me, I'm like, why would I get myself intertwined even deeper with you if you're still looking for a rip cord to pull? Yeah. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, if you're not ready to go in, don't go in.

Don't go in. Right. And Parker, so if you're my friend, or if you're one of my grad students, you came in and said, hey, let's just, I friend, or if you're one of my grad students, you came in and said, hey, let's just, I need to have coffee and just wanna talk. I would say, go marry your fiance,

and make a, line up a, and I hate to say these words, line up a business arrangement so that you begin sharing things fiscally, you begin sharing things romantically, emotionally. We are gonna create a life together, a home together. And so if somebody ever yanks this ripcord unintentionally, there is a structured separation here. You're not just trying to figure out

how to separate whatever goes on when y'all start buying houses together and whatever your people do. But I'd say get married or slow down, slow down. If it's your fiance, then you've already made this sort of a commitment together, then wait till it's official. Yeah, I agree, I agree.

I know, but I hadn't thought of your, often we get to blame everyone else in our life. Yeah. But it's because we don't like looking in the mirror and looking at our guts and being like, this isn't right. Sometimes it is that. Remember like in college when you're dating somebody and all your friends are like, that's not a good idea.

And you start to go, that discomfort is because of them. Yeah. And it's like, no, cause I know. Listen, let's go down another trail then John. Because I think what it is is we've also told ourselves that, and this is erroneous, good friends and good supportive people, they support you no matter what.

No, they tell you the truth no matter what. Okay, and that's the other thing. That's counter-cultural to go, I feel bad because this person is telling me a hard truth right now or they've ingrained a hard truth in me right now. It's easier to say, I'm gonna go my own way and I'm gonna do it my way and this is living my truth. But then when you feel bad, you're looking at everybody,

you're the one making me feel bad. You're the one, you should have supported me. I'm like, no, bro, that's your conscience. That is- Feeling bad is inside out most of the time, right? And I think back to conversations, gosh, I could just name them like Trevor and Tucker and Christian and Buddy and Craig and God, I could just name him, like Trevor and Tucker and Christian and Buddy and Craig and

God, I could keep going for days, man. Todd, John, these are men in my life, Jean Noel. These are men, Chris Melton, these are men who have looked me in the eye over from when I was a little boy, all the way till I was a grown man. And they say, I see something and you stop. Yes. Or here's another way to look at this, or I wanna challenge you on this. Yes. And I am only sitting here because those men loved me enough. Yes.

To say, hey stop. And women too, there's been women too, who loved me enough to say, I'm calling you out. Yeah. Right? And it's not, it didn't make me feel bad. Did I feel bad? Yes. Yes. Yes, I felt bad because I was exposed, right?

Yes. I was brought to light. And thank God those men and women have called me out over time. Man, let me tell you, if you don't have good friends in your life who will sit you down and tell you, you need to cool out or they'll tell you about yourself,

you don't have the right people. You need good friends do not always agree with you. And your parents, if they're being good parents, they're not trying to be your best friend. They're not always gonna agree with you. They're gonna set you straight because they've lived a lot longer than you. Now, I'm reserving this,

assuming that this is some parents who've got some sense. Some parents are a little bit, oh, right, so fair enough, fair enough. But you need somebody who's gonna set you straight and you need good people who are older than you, who have lived more life than you to set you straight. So all I have to say, listen to your parents Parker, listen to your parents. We'll be right back.

What parents just don't understand. If you own a small business and you like The Ramsey Show, then you're going to love the Entree Leadership Podcast. Almost 200,000 listeners tune in every Monday to hear me take calls from real business leaders and give tactical advice based on my 30 years of experience leading. This is not a podcast about business theory. It's real insight from a practitioner who actually does this stuff. Find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Or if you're listening on YouTube or podcasts podcast now just click the link in the description. Welcome back to the Ramsey show I'm John Delaney joined

by Jade Warschall. Let's go out to Orlando Florida and talk to brother David. What's up David? Hey how's it going guys? Doing great man, what you up to? Not much, not much. Appreciate you guys taking my call. God bless. I'm calling to ask about my condominium. I'm not sure what to do with it. So I bought it in 2010 with cash and And the HOA has been increasing since then. It's about 600 a month. And, but a couple months ago, the HOA, the condominium company, the guy's in charge. Yep. Did you fall out?

No, we lost him. I think he fell out. Oh, we lost him. Well think he fell out. We lost him. Well, maybe he'll come back. I think the HOA gods were like, stop, and they just cut it off as they do. They have a lot of power. All right, let's go out to... Wait, we think he might be coming back.

Oh, is he back? Oh, line one. Okay, let's go out to Los Angeles, California and talk to Oh Susanna. What's up, Susanna? Hi, how are you both doing today? Good. What's going on? So I apologize if my voice is shaky. I'm riddled with self-loathing and neuroses but I am too. And so is George Campbell. You're in good company. Thank you, I appreciate that. So I guess just, I was asking how I can,

my financial question is what's the most effective way to tackle my student loan debt to start pursuing my other financial goals? I got my master's degree last year in social work. I've been working in mental health for the past 10 years and I don't have a regret with getting my master's because you know, here in California, you need, you know, you need that degree to, you know, move up in this field. And, um, I did take out a loan, um, my current debt right now.

Um, I hate saying it out loud. It's a 41,9944 and 79 cents. Uh, the reason why the loan is that big, um, just some quick background on me. Um, I am a first generation, you know, my parents are immigrants and you know, they work really hard, but unfortunately, you know, there was never that, you know, like, like, you know, like they were never able to help me out financially with I don't expect them to, by the way, but you know, that's kind

of my background. I've been working since I was 15 years old. I haven't stopped. Hey, Susanna, can I interrupt real quick? Real quick? Yes, of course. Yeah. Okay, listen, Jade and I are on your team.

Okay, you don't have to explain? You don't have to explain, you don't have to apologize for anything else. Listen, 41K, Jade and I had multiple six figures of student loan debt. You're good, man. We would have been calling you for advice years ago, okay? And I dedicated my life to working in the emotional and mental wellness of other people. I love what you do. I wish you didn't owe 41,000 bucks because it's wearing you out and it's making you exhausted.

And it makes it hard to show up for clients day after day after day after day because you have your own anxiety and your own stress from that debt. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. But dude, we're on your team, okay? Yeah, thank you both. I really appreciate that. So let's jump in. Let's jump into the issue. Is the problem that you're trying to pay these off and you don't know where to start? Tell me about the problem. Yeah, so I think it's just mainly that, like not knowing where to begin. And then on top of that, I'm 31 years old and I you know I know that there's a timeline that I kind of wanted to follow I know timeline sometimes they they're not you know they're not going to be linear I want to be a homeowner definitely before I was 40 I thought well a lot of times when we

have those goals the way to reach them is to kind of reverse engineer it and say okay if I want to be a homeowner by the time I'm 40, I'm 39 now, that gives me a nine year spread, what do I need to do to make this happen, right? And in your case, it's let's do the math and let's figure out where the holes are. So if you tell me that you have almost 42,000

in student loans, the first question I'm asking is, is that your only debt? So I have two credit cards, but honestly, they're very small. It's about like a thousand each. So I know that I can pay off easily. But it does, it does matter in this equation. And the reason that those credit cards matter is cause they speak to your habits. And so I don't want you to, just because the balances aren't high, I don't want you to say, Oh, I have these credit cards, but they don't matter.

They actually matter quite a lot because it speaks to your nature of wanting to borrow money to get the things that you want or need. And so I want you to look at those and go, okay, this is a habit that I've started, and I don't wanna do this habit anymore. So the first step for you is to break up with those credit cards and say,

if debt is causing the anxiety of debt is the problem in my life, I have to stop borrowing money and I have to cut that off at the source. And so my first homework for you off this call would be let's cut up those credit cards and decide that we're going to live on our, on the money that we make. Fair enough? Yeah. Yes, that's fair. So we got the two credit cards. The balances aren't particularly high. Is there any other debt that you want to talk about? No, it's just that it's just, just after beside those two credit cards, it's just the student loan debt. Okay. And then how much are you earning from your job? So I make 77 a year, a little bit of change. And then I have a five-house bill. I work at a hospital

and that's not always consistent. I work, um, like whenever they need me, I'm pretty am. Um, but I want to say I bring home like 2000. So I think I'm taking home every, every month about 6k. And I know that's a pretty good amount. And, um, too, you know, I never like to have the habit of, well, aside from school and the two, the only reason why I got the credit cards was because like I had people telling me you know family members like oh that's the only way you build credit yeah they were wrong it was never because that was I know they were wrong they jacked you

but here's here's the thing I want to get one last piece of information from you how much of what are you paying in rent every month? My rent is only a thousand. So it's not too high. Thankfully, I live with family. So I'm actually a really good saver. In my 20s, I traveled a lot. How much do you have saved? In a year, I was able to save 30k.

You have that now? Yes, I do. And I put some of it into Ohio Things account. And then the rest, I have it in my savings. Again, I don't know a lot about any financial things. Well, let me tell you, Susanna, let me tell you, let me help you. The 30,000. And I know this is going to go against every fiber in your being right now. But I'm going to tell you anyway, and you're going to roll this around in your head, and my hope is that you'll decide

to do what the people on the radio told you. If I were you, I would be tapping into that 30K that saved because it's not really your money. That money is owed to the student loan companies, and you will feel a lot better if you just give them their money, and you'll be able to sleep a lot better at night. Because right now you're holding it from them.

You agreed to pay. So you have the 30,000, I take 29,000 of that and I'd pay the vast majority, the big bulk of this, the credit cards and the student loans off. Credit cards are gone today. Most of the student loans are gone. And then how quickly could you pay off the other $10,000 or so of student loans?

That's left. I can tell you, November, December, and January, by February 1, you could be debt free, Susanna. Wow, yeah, that's- 3000 bucks a month, right? We'll cover the rest of this. And you don't owe anybody in the world. And can I flip that around?

Nobody in the world owes you, I mean, owns you. Yes, okay. How cool is that? That sounds, yeah, no, that's pretty great. And you know, even before jumping on the call, I was kind of mentally, even I was mentally preparing myself like I think I'm just gonna have to pay this and write this off.

The only reason why I didn't start paying off my debt right away was because, you know, I, I think a while back they were supposed to forgive a student loans for social workers. So I did put it on hold. Yeah. Now that it seems like that's not happening, um, you know, and I'm, I am in a relationship, um, you know, obviously we're not engaged or anything, but, um, I did tell, you know, my, my significant other, I told them, look, like, you know my significant other I told him look like you know because he's actually really good at saving money and everything and

he's so really good support. Well it's good to have him it's good to get it all paid off. And you're right I think that the reason you were steadying yourself and getting ready to do this because you know it's the right choice and I hope you do it today. Go make it happen. Hey for all of you listening to the show on YouTube or podcast it's about to end Head over to the Ramsey Network app to finish the show. And that's where the party is at. To go further with Ramsey, we got calls picked for you. You can filter by topic,

all your favorite Ramsey shows in one place. Don't miss what's coming next. Come see us on the Ramsey Network app. We'll be right back. Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store,

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