The Ramsey Show - Play Stupid Financial Games, Win Stupid Prizes

Episode Date: June 3, 2024

💵 Sign-up for EveryDollar today - The simplest way to budget for your life! Ken Coleman & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: "I'm 21-years-old and $350K in debt" Teaching kids the value of hard work, Dealing with the tax implications of a high yield savings account, Why co-signing on a loan is NEVER a good idea, "How do I get out of over $1M in debt?" Getting back on your feet after losing a job Support Our Sponsors: Christian Healthcare Ministries NetSuite BetterHelp Zander Insurance Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 🏠 Find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent 📖 Beat debt and build wealth with the new The Total Money Makeover Updated and Expanded 20th Anniversary Edition! Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

This is the Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. Excited to have you aboard. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me today.

And we are here for you. So, George is our resident money expert. I'll chime in with an opinion or two, if he allows. I will allow. Will you? Alright. And I'm the work expert. So, think income. Alright? I'm the work expert. So think income. All right?

I'm the guy to help you make more income, and George is the guy to help you spend it and budget it properly. Oh, I like that. That's a good combo. You see that? So you're feeling stuck. You feel like you need the promotion. You can't get the promotion.

Anything related to that. And a lot of people are like, should I move for this job? Should I take the pay cut? Should I take the raise? Is it worth it? Those are all conundrums that you can help with. That's right. So happy to take any of those calls.

Let's get to it. Detroit, Michigan, the Motor City, George, is what it's famously known for. Makes sense. I'll explain that to you on the commercial break. But Colin is up. Colin, how can we help? Hey, man. So in a bit of a situation.

I'm 21 years old, three kids, five, two, and 34 days. Started young, right? I own a rental property, a duplex here in town and own the home that I'm living in. So two different mortgages, two different car payments. Trying to figure out what best suits me. Should I, I'm finding myself payment poor, which is probably 90% of the phone calls you guys receive. And I'm trying to see if it's smart for me to keep saving for one thing, but falling behind on the other. What are you saving for?

Well, I'm just, like I said said i just went through a career switch so i've i was in the car business for the past four years making 130 grand a year um now i am a nurse making about 80 grand a year whoa and i um you know it's what i went to school for. It's more consistent money, but definitely less now. There will be more in the future, but less now. And for these next couple of years, it's going to be the income that can't afford what I have. So I'm trying to figure out, it doesn't make sense for me to give, you know, should, does it make sense for me to take a minor hit on my credit and give car payments back to receive more money in my pocket so I can keep the lifestyle for me and my wife? Or does it

make sense for me to sell everything so I can get more ahead of the game? Okay, I'll tell you what, Colin, George is going to tell you what to do, but can I guide you so we can get to it faster? Yeah. All right, let's go through your debts, All right. So we've got two homes, right? And so give us the, not the primary home, not the mortgage, but just give us the rental property. What do you owe on that? About 96.8. All right. 96.8. And then now list the rest of your debts out for us. You said besides the home that I live in that's right you said you had two car loans okay what are those so two car loans that's about 45 and 48 okay and what are those cars worth are you upside down on those or you got some equity upside down on them hard upside down on them hard

how much on the 48 give me that one first. Eight grand. Okay. So you have 90,000 plus worth of car loans and you make 80,000. Correct. How? Because when I accumulated those car loans, I was making 130. That's right. Not that that's an income. That still hurts my brain.

Correct. It hurts my brain. How much are you upside down? I'm young and dumb. That's a, not that that's an income. That still hurts my brain. Correct. It hurts my brain. How much are you upside down? I'm young and dumb. That's okay. How much are you upside down on the $45,000 car? Probably closer to 12. So it's only worth like 33?

Correct. And what about the 48 one? He's 8K upside down. That one's worth about 40? Yeah. Okay. Give George the rest of your debts. We've got to see your whole picture here. Then he'll tell you what to do.

Yeah, for sure. So, I know you guys said besides the mortgage I live in, but that mortgage is about $250,000. What's it worth? It's a manufactured home, so probably... Less than that. Way less

than that. Okay, what else? Let's keep moving. Let's keep moving on the other debts. What's the rental worth, by the way? Student loan. Say that again? What's the rental worth? The rental is worth about $130,000. Okay. We're definitely going to sell that one, aren't we, George? Yeah. You'd clear $30,000 worth of debt just by selling that. It is not a blessing in your life. Correct. I'm in the process of selling it now. Okay. So, or at least talking to investment plan or, you know, property owners. Other debt is about eight grand in student loans. Okay. Is that it? And about 18 grand in credit card debt. Okay. Here's the deal. I would sell this rental. You'll clear hopefully

about 30K? Yep. That's the 20K you're upside down in on the cars plus another 10 to get you a different vehicle. Right. So that's going to clear the car debt. What are your total car payments? Probably about $2,800 a month. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's going to free up $2,800 that you can now use to tackle the other debt. So you'll tackle the smallest debt first. So if you have a bunch of credit cards, I'm guessing those are split amongst a few. Yep. Yep. Okay. So whatever the smallest balance is, you're going to free up the $2,800, all the margin you can muster up from your normal income. Is your wife working outside the home? No. Okay.

I imagine she's got her hands full with a one-month-old, a two- and a five-year-old. Correct. When you go home, can she do something part-time and you take over? No. I work nights. So where I work afternoon, so three to 11. So when I'm home, it's, uh, I mean, I guess she could, but my problem is this is another kind of room I found myself in. I mean, you know, because my income is reported for the past two years in the sense of what daycares and all that stuff take.

Because I made so much then but make so little now or less now, I still don't qualify for any help. Can you pick up more hours doing nursing? Yeah, I'm mandated three nights a week already. Okay. If you can do even more of that, we've got to get this income up. But if you at least do what we say, sell the rental, you'll clear the amount you're upside down on the cars.

That will allow you to sell them. Then you're going to take the $10K and get you a beater car to get around in for now. Now, with that freed up $2,800, you attack the rest of your $26,000 in debt, student loans and credit cards. And at that amount, what are we talking about, George? How many months are we looking at there? He's got 26. We'll make an 80 and freeing up $2,800. That should help you get out of debt

in a year. That's right. Do you see that path? Yeah, in one year. If you take the money that you just freed up in those car payments, you can get out of this in a year. Okay. Do you have any savings? Yeah, but it's very little, probably about $4,800.

That's something. So if you're following the baby steps, which we're going to send you to Financial Peace University to walk you through this, baby step one is $1,000. Anything beyond that needs to go toward your consumer debt. So that's $3,800. You would attack.

You would knock out a few credit cards just like that, which frees up a payment. Do you see how the snowball starts rolling? I put him on hold because we're running into a break. Yeah. We did what we could. So that's the plan. Hang on the line. We'll send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke.

It'll walk you through this. It'll make you never want to touch debt again. At Financial Peace University, that's going to give you the proven plan to get out of debt, to build wealth. Man, you got three babies. You got a wife. You got to start taking life seriously. And that means getting out of debt as fast as possible. Colin, I mean, George laid it out as plain as it could be. There is no margin for you to come up with your own version of that plan. That's the plan that will get you out of debt in a year and allow you to start to begin to build wealth, take care of all those kiddos. Try to find some sleep somewhere in there. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, when you go against what society thinks is, quote, normal, like avoiding debt, for example, it might seem weird at first. And that is totally okay. We want you to be weird if that means doing things intentionally, including how you spend your health care dollars. And one way to be intentional is with Christian health care ministries. CHM isn't health insurance. They're a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of health care costs without sacrificing their freedom. Find out more and join at chministries.org slash budget.

That's chministries.org slash budget. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is with me this hour. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. We'll get back to the phone shortly. But first, George, I'd like to, you and I were talking on Friday. We were on the show. And during the breaks, we were talking about how we just peruse the old real estate listings. It's one of my only hobbies.

Yeah. By the way, this is not an endorsement. It's just I like the usability of it. I use Realtor.com. I'm a fan as well. Yeah. Yeah, it's a nice interface. And again, this is not an endorsement. It's just I like the usability of it. I use Realtor.com. I'm a fan as well. Yeah. Yeah, it's a nice interface. And again, this is no endorsement.

Sure. But it is listings by realtors. And so I find it to be fun. But the app, it's kind of fun to see what's going on. And I'll be honest with you, I'm always kind of looking at my neighbor to go, okay, what's going on in the hood? I want to know what's happening. A lot of people do that, by the way.

It's their hobby as well. Well, sure. You want to see where you stand. How's the old equity situation? Some that, by the way. It's their hobby as well. Well, sure. You want to see where you stand. How's the old equity situation? Some of it's doom scrolling. How's the market? Going, what if? A little bit of dreaming. And some people are going, should I sell my house? Yeah. All right, Mr. Money Guy, what's your take on the current real estate market? I think it's not going to change drastically anytime soon. So what does that mean? I think rates will slowly come down, but as they come down, home values will pipe up. So you're telling me people ought to be on, no, excuse me, they should be in the game, not on the sideline. Is that what you're telling

me? If you're financially ready to buy, do it. Don't worry about the rates. And if you're thinking about selling, it's not going to be like, well, if I wait six months, what? Just go ahead and sell if you're ready to sell. All right, there you go. From the expert himself, from the old horse's mouth right there, folks. And so we've got a great program for you. Our Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find an agent that you can actually trust, keep you on track with your goals. They understand the way we teach buying and selling real estate. And so we want to make sure that you know that there are top agents in your area that we trust.

And you can find these Ramsey Trusted Agents with years of experience by going to ramseysolutions.com slash agent. That's ramseysolutions.com slash agent. All right, to Atlanta, Georgia, we go next. And C is on the line. C, how can we help? Hi, Ken and George. How are y'all?

We're having a blast. What's going on? All right. I am in baby step number two, and in an effort to increase my income and just do something that I see myself doing long-term, I'm thinking about going to get a master's degree, but I don't know if I should do it now or later after I pay off all my debt. Okay. Give me a quick snapshot of your debt. I have $22,000 in student loans. That's it? Yes. Okay. What'd you get your undergrad in? Sociology. Okay. And what are you, what master's are you looking at pursuing?

It's something different, so it wouldn't take the standard two years. It would be three years of speech-language pathology. So a three-year program to have a master's in speech pathology. Yes. Okay, and what's the income range if you were to have that master's degree in speech pathology? According to Google, about $81,000 per vortex. Is that starting, or is that kind of at the top range? Yes, it says less than a year of experience, and that's like the 25%.

And what's that look like as it goes up? What do you think the ceiling is on that income? I did not research that, but that's like the low end, and that's like very beginner. Okay, good. All right. And do you see yourself potentially owning your own firm? I'm not sure what you'd call it, or agency?

Practice? Thank you. That's the word. Maybe, but I haven't thought that far yet. All right. Good. Well, I guess that's why you called me. I'm going to walk you through all these things.

Okay, so how much is the master's program going to cost? Hello, C. We stumped C on that question did we lose her all right we'll see if hello c you hear me there we now we can you just went into you just you just disappeared for a moment we're glad to get you back all right how much is the three-year program that you're looking into, or have you looked into multiple, and what is the range of cost? Well, it'll be about $25,000 at the school that I've looked at. $25,000 total? Yes. Okay. Well, not including books and things like that, just tuition. Okay. And do you have that set aside in cash? I don't have that in cash right now. That's right, because you're trying to pay off the $22,000 in student loans. How much do you have in savings right now? Just my $1,000 for Baby Step 1.

She's working the Baby Steps, Jordan. Okay, good. All right. So are you single income, double income? Is it just you? And what are you making right now? Yes, I'm single, no children. I'm making $31,000 as a teacher. Okay. All right. So this is... I'm working part-time. So here's where we are. So you're part-time, only making $31,000. So regardless of my answer on the master's degree, can we agree that you need to be full-time doing something, making more than $31,000? I said that I'm working full-time and part-time making $31,000.

Oh, I misunderstood. Oh, my gosh. So you're making as a teacher. They're only paying like $20,000? No. I guess. Are you a full-time sociologist? No, I'm a teacher.

So I work at a small Christian school, so, yeah, my income is not like the average teacher. Can you go work at a different school and make, you know, 35, 40, 45? Well, I did get a raise this upcoming year. This is just, I just gave you my numbers for what I'm making right now. Well, but this is all informing my decision. Here's the challenge, see. There are times where I give people the advice of cash flowing a master's degree. OK, while they're doing the baby steps and in your situation, you've only got the student loans, twenty two thousand. But you've got to get your income up before I would ever say to try to do both. OK, the challenge is you got a three-year program. Okay. And that's a good chunk of time

and you're going to have to be working, I'm guessing, full-time during that process, correct? Right. Okay. So to me, there's no wrong answer, but I would be more comfortable saying, yes, cashflow your way through this if you were making more money you know if you're working two jobs I'd like to see that number be around 60 65 not two jobs at 31 and I understand you were giving us your current numbers but going forward you know you're going to have to play this out. And George, I'm going to throw it to you because this is a budgeting issue. If the income gets up higher to the tune of C, listen to me, my qualifications on me saying, yes, you should go get this graduate degree. I like that it's a path to a lot more money. And in this case, I want to be clear with the audience and C, I'll let you

answer the question. A master's degree is the only way to be clear with the audience and see, I'll let you answer the question. A master's degree is the only way to be a speech pathologist. True or false? True. Okay. So I want the audience to know that I've got a two-part framework that I always run by people, and then they ask about a furthering education degree. Is it the only way, or is it the best way? And if the answer is yes, then I say pursue it, but we still got to be smart with our money. In this case, I'm bringing you in here, George. C needs to have this. So there's no question that the master's degree is eventually required.

I would be more comfortable if she doubled her salary, but I'm going to leave an asterisk there. If she could double her salary and get more, let's say she gets in the 60-65 range. From a budget standpoint, I want you to walk her through what she'd have to be able to figure out to pull the trigger on this. Yeah, well, when you think about even paying off your 22 grand in student loans, let's say you could do a thousand bucks a month toward your loans, right? That's 22 months. That's almost two years. 32? Yes, I'm sorry. Okay, so at a grand a month, if you were able to throw that, it would take you almost three years to pay off the debt. Then you still need to get your emergency fund, save up and cash flow to college, then do three years.

So you're talking about like a seven-year plan. Do you agree that kind of sucks? Don't you want to get there faster? I do. So now the question is, what if we could do two grand a month? Well, that changes the equation. 2,500 a month. When you create that kind of margin, it's going to get you out of debt faster,

allow you to cash flow this faster, and get you through school. So that's the goal you need to be thinking through is how can I create more margin? The only way to do that is by spending less and making more. And right now, I'm going to heavily index it toward the making more side. So see, based on how George walked you through those numbers, I want you to press pause on the master's degree. Let's get the income up, get some more headway on that debt and get to a point where you know you can budget and you can live and you can cash flow your way through while continuing to pay off baby step two. Other than that, but I'd say you're going to have to press pause and get out of debt first before we even

think about the master's degree. This is the Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities.

With one unified business management suite, there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash ramsey. It's Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey.

The Ramsey Show continues. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is with me, and we are here for you this hour, taking your money questions, your professional and work questions related to your income. How do you make more income? Is it a side hustle? Is it a pivot?

Why are you not getting promoted? I'll take any of those questions. We want to help you get some more money in. By the way, that helps us get through the baby steps faster. George here to be the primary here on your money questions. 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Tallahassee, Florida is where we go next. And Ryan is joining us there.

Ryan, how can we help? Yes, sir. Ken, George, great to hear from you. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's happening today? Yes, sir. So my wife and I, we're in baby step two.

We've been going at it gazelle intense, like you guys say, for about the last year and a half. And we're doing really good with it. My big question and my main question is, how do you keep the intensity on your debt payoff? Like as far as making sure that you're just, you keep going at it and you don't lose any steam on it and you don't get disgruntled because we have like our two loans that we have left, the big ones, and that's all we have left. We've paid off all the small fiddly doing stuff like credit cards and a firm and stuff

like that. So how much debt do you have total left? Left over, I have about $40,000. Okay. And we started with about, I want to say it was 89 000 we actually uh my wife we had before we started we had bought her a brand new honda accord um and then start i found you guys on youtube and uh i was like we we we got to get rid of the car so ryan here's my question um you called us and

I love this question. How do we keep the intensity up or how do we stay the course? I'm just curious, where are the temptations or where are the frustrations? What, give us what you guys are actually dealing with in this journey right now. Um, so we're just, you know, we're, we're working so much. I work, I'm a commercial truck driver locally. Uh, I work anywhere between 65 to 75 hours a week. Um, and my wife works about, uh, probably 55 to 60 hours a week. And that's just on our regular jobs. And then I'll do like Uber Eats and stuff on the side. So, so you're exhausted.

You're just exhausted. Yeah. Okay. So George're exhausted. You're just exhausted. Yeah. Okay. So, George, this is an interesting question. This is kind of fun to tackle. I may have a different position than George, but I think that this is a marathon, not a sprint. Would you agree with that, Ryan?

Totally agree. And like I said, that's why I was asking, how do you just make sure that you keep that intensity and the fire does not die out in your... Well, I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you, because I think there's a difference between when Dave for decades has said, be gazelle intense. There's a difference between that. I think I could be wrong. I don't mind if George disagrees with me here and maybe some of our audience i think there's a difference between that and and literally the physical sprint the entire time and i think there might be times and i i ran a half marathon i only did it once i'll never do it again by the way i

was one and done george you know this famous first and last half but here's one thing i learned and i took away from my half marathon you're gonna have pace yourself. And that means you can't always keep the same pace. As I mapped out the course with a good friend of mine, you share the friend, he's intense and we mapped out, all right, so this part of the course is a little bit more hilly. So you're not going to be able to naturally keep your pace up there. It's just physically harder. So let's drop our pace back here. But then we pick up our pace coming down the hill. And so I think the journey at this moment is similar to that, George.

And I don't mind if you disagree with me, but I'm going to lead off. This may be controversial, but I think I would back off. If you're working, did you say you were working about 75 hours a week right now, roughly, or is it 80? No, like, well, on my full-time job no i mean everything i took into account everything you're doing yeah okay yeah everything's probably about 80 to 85 hours a week yeah i i i you've you've paid off so much money uh you're on the downhill of this deal you've paid off 80 uh've got less than half to go. I would pull back, and I'm just making this up, but I would pull back to maybe 60 hours, see what 50 looks like for two weeks.

That's obviously commensurate to you're not bringing in as much money, but again, you guys have learned how to budget. I'd like to see some gazelle intensity on keeping rice and beans and all that kind of stuff, but maybe give yourself a little bit of a physical break. Maybe budget in a steak dinner instead of rice and beans every night. I think you've got to pace yourself. George, do you disagree with that advice? Not necessarily.

I think the way I would pace it is just breaking it down into smaller goals. It's not necessarily we want to have less income, but I think there's ways to not make it a giant slog, which right now you've got the big dogs. So you've got the mountain staring you. You've knocked out the little ones. You've got those wins, and now you're like, oh, crap. You can't keep doing 80 hours a week.

It's going to take forever. Now, 80 hours, that's a lot. Like with the Uber Eats, are you guys just not making enough with your full-time jobs? What's the current household income with the side jobs? Current household income with the side jobs? Current household income with the side jobs, the net is like just shy of $11,000 a month. Amazing. And how much of that are you able to throw at the debt?

We throw about $2,757 at the debt every month. And that's according to the budget. So it's going hard in the main. My question is, why do you guys have $8,000 in expenses? Well, I have my truck loan, which is one of the, that's the biggest one we have left. I owe $26,000 on that. And then we have a $13,800 personal loan that we had took out after we sold the car to buy my wife her little hoopty truck that she has now. Okay. It still seems like you have a lot of expenses.

So if we can figure out a way to spend less, because what we're talking about is making more, the other option to get margin is to spend less. So I'm wondering if there's lifestyle choices we can make. We're shopping at a different grocery store, less stops at the, no pun intended, at the gas station. You know, are there other things we can do on that arena to bring our expenses down to $6,000 so you're not having to work as much, but you also don't lose progress? That's where I'm trying to Okay. I know my big thing is we own a home, and our mortgage is $3,564 a month. Goodness gracious. That's a lot of mortgage. Yes, sir. That explains why things are so tight.

What was that, Ken? How big is the house? How many square feet have you got on that? Just shy of 2,300 square feet. Man. And it's a four-bedroom, three-bath. Okay. Well, I think this mortgage is a, that's another thing to look at down the road, because that may not be a sustainable mortgage for you guys.

It's a big mortgage on a house that small. Because once you go back to your normal full-time jobs, what's going to be your take-home pay? It would be like $9,400 a month. Okay. So this mortgage has taken up a big old chunk of that. We're talking upwards of 40% of your take-home pay going toward the mortgage. Yeah. Are you guys on the water?

No, we're not. We're just, I live in Florida. Yeah. I live in Florida, and when we had originally bought the house, ironically, we bought the house right before we discovered you guys. And I told my wife, I was like, if we had only found the Ramsey show maybe like a couple of months before. Well, usually you make a bad decision, then you find the show. So you guys did it in the right order.

How much is the house worth? The house is worth $400,000. What did you pay for it? $400,000. With very little down, I imagine? Yeah, we actually had the down payment assistance plan when we bought the home. So they put in like a... It's all included in the mortgage, I guess, but it's.

What's the truck worth? My truck is worth $18,000. Okay. I'm just wondering if push came to shove and you were just done going this hard, you could sell the truck. You need to cover the amount you're underwater on, plus enough to get you something different. That's his main income, the truck. Well, the truck is not the one you're driving for work, right? That's your personal vehicle? It is. Oh's his main income. Well, the truck is not the one you're driving for work, right? That's your personal vehicle? No, it is. It is.

Oh. I'd sell the house. I really would. I think it's time for them to get out of this deal and rent, George. That's a lot of house. I would consider that. You probably can get out of debt first. It's going to take you another year. I'd keep up the intensity and look at your lifestyle choices. But if you can't sustain it, you've got to slow down

a little bit. Don't burn out. But if you can't keep up those hours, at least take a week off and then get back at choices. But if you can't sustain it, you've got to slow down a little bit. Don't burn out. If you can't keep up those hours, at least take a week off and then get back at it. But my goodness, I think there's other fixes. I think I'd try to get out of that house. I wouldn't normally say that, George, but I think that would be a big, big fix. That's a lot of house. You've got to go from disgruntled to gruntled.

That's what I've learned in life, Ken. Ooh, I like that. I'm going to quote that. George Campbell, folks. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is the season for Halloween. It's October.

We're wearing costumes and we're wearing masks. So if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. And while you're thinking about it, I want you to be honest. A lot of us hide ourselves. We hide our true selves behind costumes and masks all the time. We do this at work. We do this around our friends. We do this around our families. We even do this when we look at ourselves in the mirror. I know because I've been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding behind masks and costumes all the time,

if you find yourself hiding from your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can be honest, where you can talk to somebody else and reflect and learn, and you can accept all the parts of yourself over time and start living an authentic life. Masks and costumes should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. And if you're considering therapy, try calling my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy.

You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for you and your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash Deloney. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. This hour, the phone number is 888-825-5225. You've got a question about your money?

Come on. You've got a question about not making enough money? You want to make more? I'm here to help on that. George is going to coach you up on your budget, how to keep it. So let's get to it. Is it Joan? I think we're going to go with Joan or Joanne.

What do you think? I'm going to go Joanne. You're going to go Joanne? I'll go with Joanne. Let's see. Toronto, Ontario. go with Joan or Joanne. What do you think? I'm going to go Joanne. You're going to go Joanne? I'll go with Joanne. Let's see. Toronto, Ontario. Is it Joan or Joanne? It's Joanne.

Joanne. All right. Way to go, George. Way to help me out. I win a prize. Thank you. How can we help? Okay.

So we have a 15-year-old son who we have been Dave Ramsey followers for years. So he has done the 60-30-10 principle. Now he is working 50-60 hours a week. And we are starting to see an unhealthy money habit where everything is about money and savings. Be more specific. What's showing up in his actions and his comments that's got you concerned about a 15-year-old working 50 to 60 hours a week? I'm having a hard time being concerned yet, but I want to hear more. Okay.

Well, and maybe this is where we don't need to be concerned. But he is an avid soccer fan, and he would rather work than go to his soccer games. You mean playing in his... Correct. Okay. Correct. And what's his job? What kind of work is he doing? He's now into landscaping. And what's he making per hour? $19 an hour. And what kind of goals does this kid have with this money? Have you heard him talk

about some of his goals? Oh, yes. What's he got? He wants to buy a house. And why does he want to buy a house? He wants to buy a house when he's 20. And yes, in Canada, in our area, you don't get much of a house for $400,000. Right. And what is he saying about his future besides buying a house? Is he saying anything about a professional future, things that he may want to do one day? He's leaning towards running his own landscaping company okay there's your answer when it comes to college it is off the table he doesn't even want to think about it because he can make money instead fantastic he's making 4,500 a month at 15 years

old what does he need college for i couldn't be happieranne. You have nothing to be concerned about at all. You have a 15-year-old who has discovered the value of working his butt off and stacking cash, and he's thinking five years ahead on a house. He's thinking probably seven to ten years ahead on owning his own landscaping company, and he's going, I'm never going to play in the MLS, and I'm probably not going to make the Canadian World Cup team. So maybe I'll just skip my soccer game and take care of my future. I wouldn't be concerned if I were you, Joanne.

I'd be throwing a party. Okay. That's good. George, am I wrong? Here's my take. Now, the only concern is that he has skipped childhood and went straight into adulthood we want him to grow into an adult who is excited about work i like that skip childhood that's a dramatic well i just don't want him to look back one day and go what

like i just what did i do this for i just worked my whole life my concern ken and here's where i've seen this play out there's not a why behind it he's got a why well he wants about he wants a house no he wants to run his own landscaping company one day. Yes. He likes landscaping work. Why a house at 20? Who cares about that? That's just a 15-year-old.

That'll work itself out. She's wondering, is he working too much? Is he too concerned about money? And I don't think he is. Does he have to be in school? We homeschool. Okay. And he's doing his high schooling. Instead of four years. He's doing it in three. And he's getting it all done. He's doing his work. He's studying. Oh, absolutely.

Okay, great. This kid's a machine. He can work and make money. Yeah, a lot of people get it. Well, he hates the homeschooling, but he's so bound and bent he can make money. But he's very disciplined. Instead of sitting behind a desk. Yes. But that's what schooling does to a lot of entrepreneurs. In fact, I could tell this story over and over and over and over and over about all the great entrepreneurs. They hate being behind a desk.

They hate the process. They're about doing. And my guess is he really enjoys the outdoors. Is this something he's always been, a bit of an outdoorsy, handy kind of guy? Oh, absolutely. A hundred percent. Again, this is, he's, listen, I wrote a book called Find the Work You're Wired to Do, George. This kid is wired.

He figured it out very early. Yes. I'm telling you, I'm so excited. I can barely stand it. This is, by the way, this is rare. Very. But to say this kid's not had any fun he's had a fun childhood yes yeah well and trauma lots of trauma but okay tell us about that whatever

you're comfortable with we don't need to know the details but what kind of trauma um he lost his brother when he was seven so that's really tough on him. Well, that'll make you grow up quick. That's exactly what I was so sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And a year later, his dad and me split. Okay. So would you say it's possible that this is a big distraction for him, and it also is a potential win for him. He sees a big life win. He sees something that he can control. He couldn't control losing his brother. He couldn't control you all divorcing, but he can control how much money he makes.

I think so, and potentially it makes him focused on something other than his pain. That's exactly what I'm getting at. That's why I said it's a distraction and something that he can control. It can be both. Listen, I think getting him therapy on a consistent basis and encouraging him to do that is okay. I understand your concern. I was having some fun.

I am in no way minimizing the trauma that he's had but this is this is actually he's not he's not some weird situation he's rare okay but he's not weird okay george i've got it well i keep thinking about my friend graham stefan who's a big financial youtuber he had a very similar experience to your son, Joanne, where he went. He was in school going, wait, I can go make money doing this aquarium photography stuff. Why am I sitting here in school making zero dollars? So there's a bent to him that he's going to be very wealth minded and that's okay. I'm just in the boat of I think a little bit of balance is good.

As long as he has some hobbies. I just I don't know that I don't want to be working 60 hours a week, let alone a 15-year-old. So that was my only thing was I love where he's headed. His mindset's right. His discipline is there. I just want him doing it for the right reasons and have some real depth to it. Instead of just going, I got to build wealth.

I got to have a million by 21 or else, or else, or else. And as I dig into it with people, there's no why behind it. I just want him to have that deeper why. And I appreciate that. But Joanne, I would just behind it. I just want them to have that deeper why. And I appreciate that. But, Joanne, I would just be aware. I think George makes a very good point there. Just keep your eye on it, but really encourage him and really just speak positive life over him that he's working so hard,

that he's putting money away, and just remind him, hey, have a little bit of fun with some of that money. And force him to give some, too. Yeah. You said you're doing the 60-30-10. I assume that's saving, spending, giving. Yeah, but he, as long as we've done that, which is all he ever actually remembers,

he's never spent 30%. I think we get him to enjoy some of it more because the only concern is that he has a flat tire where he goes, I'm great at saving and investing. I have a harder time giving and having that open hand. I have a harder time enjoying the fruits of my labor so I think we can work on those things with him but I don't think this is a you know a crisis no okay just make make sure he doesn't get too unhealthy uh and and and that's the only issue and the unhealthy would be that he's just working working working not enjoying not giving um so so be that he's just working, working, working, not enjoying, not giving.

So be that positive focus. Hey, I think you should go do this. Or I think you should have some friends over and do that. You know, community, I think, is huge at 15. Here's the interesting thing. It may be very hard to find other 15-year-olds who get him. He'll be hiring his buddies to work for his business at this point. Right.

You know, so they come over to play poker or something. He goes, hey, let's get outside and knock some boxwoods out here. Let's plant these suckers. But I think you've got a great young man who's been through a lot. And I think he's been forced to probably mature a little bit too early on certain things. So lean in, Mom, and love him. Don't be concerned because he'll pick up on that. And I just don't think you need to be concerned right now.

On the spectrum of 60 hours a week doing video games or working, I'd rather him be toward the work side. Isn't that the truth? It's better. I love that. Good stuff. All right, good hour, George Camel. Good stuff.

Praying for your voice will get you medicated. Thank you. More honey during the break. Thanks to Kelly Daniel keeping us on the air and the fearless crew. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. We're here to help you win in your life, winning with your money,

winning in your work, and winning in your relationships. That's the goal. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. And we're here together for you this hour, taking your money calls. George will take lead on those. And then how about your income situation, your professional path? Are you making enough money? You want to make more. I'm here to help with that. So we'll combine together to help you out. Let's get started this hour with Emma, who joins us in Provo, Utah. Emma, how can we help today? Hi, thanks for having me. You bet. What's up? I've been married two and a half years,

and my husband and I have two homes between us. And up until last month, we've done our finances about 90% separate. And I'm just not sure where to go from here. I've accumulated $20,000 in debt, and I'm really struggling to pay it off. I make $31,000 a year. Okay. Let's go back a second. I want to go back here and get some details on this. You guys have two homes, and you said up until, I thought you said two months ago,

90% of your income, I mean, 90% of your finances were separate. I don't quite understand that. Are you guys living in different houses? Yes. For how long have you been doing this, the entirety of your marriage or is this a new development? The entirety of our marriage. So are you married? Like, really? Yeah, that's how it, yeah. Can I ask a weird question? Why did you get married? Well, a couple weeks ago, my husband shared with me that he actually didn't want to get married, that he was too afraid to tell me because he would hurt my feelings. And so I've wondered that. We did have a plan to find a home together that kind of met halfway, and we'd both compromised, and that has since been blown out the window

since we've been married. So I've just, we've both been just trying to make it work. So this whole thing was built on a lie to avoid hurting your feelings? That's how it feels, yeah. So you guys get married, do you go on a honeymoon to avoid hurting your feelings? That's how it feels, yeah. So you guys get married. Do you go on a honeymoon? No. So no honeymoon. And from day one, he had his house and you had your house.

I'm actually in a rental, yes. Oh, so you're renting. Yeah, we're 30 minutes apart. I'm so confused. Yeah, I am too. I'm going to keep digging, George. So the house that he lives in, are you on the deed for that, the title? Did you own that together, or is it his house?

No, it's his house. And this is what I've struggled with and why I wanted to call is I've really struggled financially since we've become married. I've changed my jobs, trying to contribute the best that I can. And he does help me now, but I've had to, you know, ask for help. And I don't want to put him down, but I have had to ask for it. Does he know that you make $30,000, you've been going $20,000 to debt, you can't afford your life, you're continually unable to make ends meet? And what does he say? He says things to be you?

Well, he doesn't want to be married. Let's be honest. He just, he told you, how long ago was this? And he said, hey, I never wanted to be married. This was just, I just said, yes, I didn't want to upset you. Like how long ago did that conversation happen? That was two weeks ago. Yeah. I mean, I think from there, we're operating from that statement. This is not even a situation where I would say there's counseling. This has never been a marriage. Yeah, I've been in counseling the last two and a half years. Yeah, good.

What is your therapist telling you? Kind of what you're telling me, but my husband assures me this is where he wants to be. He just has a slow time moving forward. Assures you this is where he wants to be? Like, this is what he wants his life to look like? No, I don't think it does, but he continues to want to keep trying. I'm not sure we trust things he says anymore. There is no trying.

Do you guys even have... Oh, boy, I can't even believe boy i can't even believe him he doesn't want to make this work no i need to know is there any like marital intimacy at all or do we have a conjugal visit you guys live in separate houses yeah we go back and forth um and i have thought with him to have so wait a second wait wait wait so that is happening So that is happening? Yes, that is happening. Well, this is even more bizarre. It's just like a friends with benefits with a legal arrangement. That's exactly what I'm getting at.

Is that fair? And your therapist is telling you that you need to get out? He hasn't said that specifically, but he has acknowledged that my husband has been in the past. It's been two and a half years of counseling. How have we not come to a decision? Listen, I'm not upset at you, Emma. I'm upset at this guy. I think this is manipulation. This is so wacky.

This is not a marriage. George nailed it. It's friends with benefits in a legal arrangement. I would have to assume there's other women in his life at this point. He's not getting what he needs even emotionally from you. I don't think he wants emotion from her. This is a dude who told you two weeks ago he never wanted to be married, but we're doing the conjugal thing.

This is wacky. Listen, I'm trying to act like your older brother righty. Emma, if I, listen, I'm trying to act like your older brother right now, I would be like, no, this doesn't make any sense. This is not a marriage. You're not happy, are you? No, I've struggled.

This has been a hard couple years for me. I think there may be some sunk cost fallacy here, and there might be some shame spiraling. I've spent all this time trying to make this work, but it's not working, and it's been two and a half years, and here you are struggling with debt, not making a lot of money. I think we need to—I'm not going to tell you on air to cut ties with him. You need to make that decision for yourself. But I would strongly figure out what life looks like for Emma on her own as she starts a new chapter. Which means he has to decide to

actually be married. Why in the world you are renting a place when he has a house and you're his wife? Does he not want you living there? Well, that's partly my fault. In my divorce, my kids have to go to school at the school district where I'm at. I have four kids at home. He doesn't have any. Okay. And my kids did not, I know it's not all about my children, but I felt like it would hurt our relationship to move them over there into a new school district and everything, which I couldn't do anyway. So I do my best to just meet his needs and go back and forth. It sounds like he's getting any benefit, as literal as there is, and you're getting zero. And he sounds controlling and manipulative, and as soon as you bring up this conversation again,

he's going, well, you know, we can make it work. What do you need? Okay, we'll figure this out. Even though he's already told you he doesn't want any part in this. Yeah, we can't keep skipping over what he said to you two weeks ago. Well, he said that,

but then he says now that he wants to be here and he wants to work it out. I don't care what he says. What is he doing? Then he needs to sell his house and move in with you. Unless his actions reflect all of this in the next week, this is not going to go anywhere. He's going to say whatever he needs to say to get out of the conversation.

No, he's saying what, let me tell you, I'm going to give you the real, real. He's saying whatever he needs to say so that he can keep up this crazy arrangement. Bachelor all week, and then I get to play husband when it suits me if you know what I'm saying I mean let's be honest so he needs to if if you can't legally get the kids out of the school district and they've got to go to school where they are then he as your husband needs to go I'm coming to you and I'm gonna be married to you that would require being a man and currently he's a child yeah so I don't know that we can get that to happen. But you've got to create your own life. You're going to have to get the income up, get out of the debt

and plan to do this all yourself. Can we get her a session with a financial coach? Yes, please. Hang on the line, Christian. We're going to get you, Emma, with one of our financial coaches because in the midst of all of this, you have to get your finances in shape to take care of you and those kiddos. So we're going to walk you through that.

We're going to be with you the whole way. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of next week, in the middle of all that grief, like it's just, it is, it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops

among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say, I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282, or go to zander.com. The Ramsey Show continues. Thrilled to have you with us, 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me.

We're here for you, taking your questions this hour. Let's go to Toronto, where Benjamin awaits. Benjamin, how can we help? Hi, George and Ken. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. Let's go to Toronto where Benjamin awaits. Benjamin, how can we help? Hi, George and Ken. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's up? I have been listening to the show for a few months now, and I know the attitude there towards whole life insurance policies. I have one that's fully paid up that my parents purchased for me when I was young. It's fully paid up now. And I'm just trying to decide whether I should surrender it and invest the cash surrender value, or at this point, should I just keep it going given my age?

What is your age? I'm in my early 40s now. Okay. And what is the policy worth? What's the death benefit? At the time, it was for $100,000, but now because it's self-sufficient, it keeps adding on to the value for it, and I believe it's close to about $120,000 now. So $120,000 is the cash value? No, it's the death benefit on it. So the death benefit's $120,000. What is the cash value? No, it's the death benefit on it. So the death benefit's $120. What is the cash value? The cash value is, I believe, just over $15,000. Okay. And have you paid money into

this? Who's been continually paying? I paid it for the last year that it was active, and then ever since then, it's just being covered by the dividends. Okay, if I'm in your shoes I'm going to surrender this policy, I'll take the cash value, but before you do that you need to get term life insurance in place and even in your 40s... I do have that in place already. Oh great, what's the policy? It's for $650,000 for myself and $500,000 for my wife. Perfect. Okay, and what's your incomes? Right now I'm at about $90,000 a year and she's at about $40,000.

Okay, and where are you guys at financially in the baby steps? Are you debt-free? Yeah, actually that's probably the best part. Fortunately, we are safe for car note, but we are mortgage-free, and we have no other expenses other than our month-to-month credit card debt or anything like that. Yeah. If you don't need that $15,000, just cash it out, and you can invest that, and it'll turn into six figures later for you in retirement. like every seven years or so, given sort of basic formulas. I wasn't sure whether to take it out now

and maybe have a shot at enjoying it in this life or using it to work. Or, you know, at this point, should I just leave it? You don't need the extra death benefit of the 120 on that whole life policy. It's not going to do much for you anyways. And I imagine the fees will continue to eat away at that versus watching it grow.

You can do better investing it on your own than what the life insurance company's doing. Yeah, that's what I would think. So it's really like, I think it's just over 2% with what they're doing with it right now. I could even put that in a high yield. Oh my goodness, yeah. You'll get 5% with a high yield savings account. I would absolutely cash this out. Your parents were doing a sweet, kind thing. It was a very expensive way to get pretty terrible coverage and ROI, but it's okay. Avoid the sunk cost fallacy. Just cash it out. Live your life. You're doing great. All right. Good stuff there. All right. Let's go next to New York City. Joe is there. Joe, how can we help? Hi. Yeah. So my question is around,

I moved from Florida to New York because I have a special needs fund. And there's more services in New York and I couldn't make more money. I've been saving for emergencies into a high yield savings account. But it's starting to cause a bit of a tax liability in terms of that extra income and interest. So I was wondering, should I opt more for a brokerage account for my emergency fund? What's your game plan with this money that you've been saving? It's sort of like my emergency fund for any issues. Like I said, I have a special needs fund, so I don't have some debt around

medical costs and things like that. I do have debt that I have to take care of, but I just wanted to make sure just in case of an emergency, something happened, that I have access to money. How much debt do you have? Between my student loans and some medical bills and some personal loans, about $100,000. Okay, and how much is in the savings account? I have about $25,000. Okay. So when you're talking about a tax liability, you're not going to pay much on this.

The $25,000 is growing at what interest rate right now? Well, you know, the growing rate right now is about $4.98. $4.03 is what you said it is on yours? No, 4.98. Oh, 4.98. Okay, so we'll call it 5%, right? So let's actually crunch the numbers to show you. That's $12.50 a year.

And divided by, you know, monthly, it's about $104 a month. Now, you're not going to pay taxes. You're going to pay, you know, your tax rate on that extra $1,250 for the year, $1,250, which is going to be $200. Okay. So I don't think this is worth worrying about over a $200, you know, extra that you would pay in taxes for that income. Just like if you got a raise, we're not going to tell you, well, don't take the raise because you're going to have to pay more in taxes. It's the same idea. Okay. I wouldn't worry about that. I would focus on paying off your debt because that's going to put you in a better financial position for the future to take care of your son, to have no payments. So I would be aggressively trying to tackle that. What's your income?

About 80,000 a year. Great. So what is your payoff plan to get rid of the $100,000 in debt? Considering the snowball method, then it's kind of expensive in New York. I would highly suggest that one. So let's say you make $80,000 net,

you got $100,000 in debt, can we clean this debt up in two and a half years? What are you thinking? If I could do it quicker, that'd be great. It'd give me so much peace of mind. Agreed. And so I would be less concerned about the savings account. You know, if you follow the baby steps, baby step one is a thousand bucks, then baby step

two is debt snowball. Obviously, you have a special needs child. I would try to forecast what kind of medical bills we might have, what are the actual costs associated with taking care of this child that we actually need in the bank? And you might realize it's less than you think. I guess over the years, you just kind of get a little bit worried, so you want to have a nest egg just in case. I agree. But I think the worry should be more focused on that $100,000 in debt versus the future cost. Because that's going to free up a lot of payments when you look at it.

What are all those payments add up to on the $100,000 right now? Just the minimums. Between the loans. I think give or take like $1,000 a month. So you would give yourself a thousand dollar raise just by getting rid of this debt. Yeah. Think of that as a thousand dollars of margin. And peace. Flexibility. So I would consider taking a chunk of that savings account and trying to chip away at some of this debt, especially those smallest balances, and then just keep what you need. Maybe that's the

max out of pocket for the deductible on the healthcare plan, what have you. But I think we're doing a lot at once right now, and I want you to make progress instead. Absolutely. Thank you for the call, Joe. All right, George, here's a fun question of the day for you from Caitlin in Florida. Boy, oh boy. I may need to give you a Tums right before this. All right. I co-signed on two vehicles with my now ex-boyfriend. Our relationship ended two and a half years ago in a domestic violence situation. He kept possession of the vehicles but has stopped making payments on them. The loan companies have been trying to repossess the vehicles but have not been able to locate him to do so. And now I've been sent a letter saying that if I don't pay the loans or hand over the vehicles,

they will be pursuing legal action against me. I don't know what to do. George, what would you say to Kalen? I would be tracking this guy. I hope you find my iphone on him and i would get those cars back to those people so they don't come after you but at the end of the day here's here's the the tldr the too long didn't read here it is spark notes play stupid games win stupid prizes and this guy's a deadbeat he owes money on the cars you owe

money on the cars because you co-signed which is the reason we say never co-sign anything, especially with someone you're not married to. And so the only way against this is getting those cars back to the loan company. It feels like a bad show on USA or something. Like a bounty hunter type show. That's what I think. Let's go find this guy. I think you've got to go find some seedy, redneck bounty hunter.

He'll find this guy. You owe the money. And until you get the collateral back to them because you stopped paying, it's not going to solve this. Find him. Find him now, Galen. This is going to be like, take him. Yeah. I have a special set of skills.

Yeah, it's got to be somebody in the Everglades down there in Florida. That's what they do for a living. They just find people. Don't you think? This is the Ramsey Show. Helping you win with your money, win with your salary, win with your relationships. This is The Ramsey Show. Thrilled that you are with us.

My name is Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me this hour. Phone number is 888-825-5225. George, what's the best way to make the most of your money? Is this a trick question? Could be if you don't answer properly. Budget. Final answer. Budgeting. That is correct, sir. And I used to think, Ken, that budgets were like for broke people and Excel-loving accountants. And it turns out I was broke until I started doing a budget. And it was actually a major key that helped me go from negative net worth, broke, stressed,

frustrated to net worth millionaire. And it's not because a budget's magic, it's because it gives you a plan on paper for where your money's going to go. And that's why we created EveryDollar. It's a budgeting app that you can get in the app store. It makes it super simple to plan your spending. You get your income, your expenses. You can even drag transactions in, connect it to your bank. There's all kinds of cool features. Super easy to use. If you've got a spouse, they can log in and have that transparency and accountability. And it really becomes freedom to spend. And you just actually made a plan for it instead of going, well, we make good money and I don't know where any of it's going. It's because you're not paying attention, and that's what a budget does.

It helps you keep a pulse on spending, helps you make progress on your goals. So go check it out, everydollar.com slash george. You can get started for free, and thank me later when you're a millionaire making progress. Wow, look at you. Very bold. Bold prediction there. That's a bold prediction. I like it.

I like it a lot. How about Andrew? Andrew's joining us now in Baltimore, Maryland, rather. Andrew, how can we help? Hey, yeah. So I'm thinking about buying a house, but also at the same time looking for a career change. I already know what that career change should be, but it's going to be a lot more variable pay, less pay, but it's like a chasing your dreams job. So I'm curious, you know, if buying a house, even though I can afford it now, it's still, you know, a wise investment. Now, what does that mean? I can afford it now in light of the variable income of this new play. Can you give us a little more detail?

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like 25. I have like 200K saved up and that's across different types of investments and savings accounts and whatever. So, you know, I can afford the down payment with, you know, we're in the spare. You know, my goal is to get, you know, like a three bedroom house and rent out two rooms. how much is the house going to cost cash flow uh ideally like 300k okay so 20 so you got the 60 the 20 easy and then you said we is that you and your wife renting this thing out oh is it just you are you single just me yeah yeah i don't even know why i said we then. And I may not have heard you. Thanks for reminding me. Yeah, right. Oh, I apologize. Yeah.

Salt in the wound. Too soon. Too soon. No shame in your game, man. I'm sure there's plenty of lovely ladies that would love to meet you. My question is, what is the variable in this new industry? What is this industry and what's the variable look like? Yeah, so basically currently I'm a comedian on the side and that's paying decently, but not enough to actually live off of quite yet. So variable in that sense is it changes month to month. Did you go all in on this? Did you go all in? Did I go? Not yet. Okay, but that's what, so the way you presented this is, I'm getting ready to go into this new thing, and it's going to be variable. My question is, why?

Mentally, I'm fully committed to it. I can't necessarily quit a job until I have more ways to make money. Perfect. That's going to be my response. Yeah. I wouldn't actually fully go into being full-time comedian until the opportunity is there. Right, right, right.

And it'll be obvious. What are you making right now per month? What do you take home? From a normal job, whatever that comes out to be, about like $10K per month on my standard job and about $2K per month in stand-up. Okay, great. Is that all local gigs or are you doing them regionally now?

Both. Good. What do you anticipate? I know this is an impossible question, but just for fun, what do you think, knowing what you know now, you've dabbled in it, you're obviously good enough to where you're getting some regional gigs. What do you think it's going to look like, how long to get the amount of gigs you would need to get to make the money you're making in your day job? Probably, I mean, that could change over, quote unquote, overnight. But if I'm going to be hyper realistic. Yes, you should be.

Another four to five years. Yeah, George, for that reason. And by the way, I think that's very realistic. Andrew, I really like that answer. George, here's the variable. I don't think I'd buy the house right now. If you really want to do comedy, now's probably not the time to saddle up and get a house

because you're going to be on the road for most of the year anyways, right? True. And so that's the question. What's the urgency to buy the house

versus pursue comedy? It sounds like you'd rather pursue comedy and just rent and you'll be okay. And keep the 60 grand. And so here, and if you're going

to do this house, let me give you these parameters. No more than 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed, which means if you put 60K down on a 300, that're going to do this house, let me give you these parameters. No more than 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed, which means if you put $60K down on a $300, that's going to be about $2,500 a month,

which you can afford if you make $10K, $12K a month take-home. It's too much. Or you can put $150 down, put half 50% down. Your payment comes down to $1,700, which allows you to do more comedy, less full-time, and have a little more wiggle room with your finances. Or, can I give option three?

I like it. Keep working this day job. The comedy grows. I know, I know. The plan is to definitely keep working. I know, you're a smart guy, but I'm just saying, I would build this thing up and I would save Can you get the comedy to $5,000 or $6,000 a month? Then you're like, okay, I know this is viable.

You can't buy the house until you know what full-time comedy looks like. So you don't even know what that's going to look like. And I think at the age of 25, I love that you're going for it. And you're single in 25. What if you move to L.A. or New York or one of the more comedy hubs? Yeah. Or what if you find this one market? You go, I end up flying through this city.

I'm making this up. Nashville. 60% of my gigs, I end up flying through this city, making this up, Nashville. 60% of my gigs, I end up flying through Nashville or Atlanta. My point is, as this thing takes off and you get to a point where you're full time, then I'd think about a house arrangement. But until then, I would rent and stack your money. Take the pressure off. I think you just have too many variables in your life right now. And a house is a long-term purchase. You want to be able to stay there for five plus years to make it

worth it. Yeah. Right. Right. And for those reasons I would pause. But you're doing great. Good for you. You're amazing, dude. Send me a DM with your comedy info. I want to check it out and see you when you're in town. I was going to say. Did you ever get to Nashville to do a show? What are your handles?

Because I'll be honest, I'm a poor viewer. That's alright. George K-A-M-E-L. George Camel with a K on Instagram and everywhere else. Have you done a show in Nashville yet? I'm actually coming August 1st. Where are you going to be?

Thursday. Where? Zanies. Yes! George loves Zanies. He's a regular. I think we should be there. George, will you remind me to go and let's support Andrew? I'm marking my calendar. I've never been more excited. I need you to mark my calendar, too, because of the two of us, Andrew, I'm the disaster of details. George, it's a Thursday

night. I'll get the tickets. This is very exciting. I'll pave my way. I'll even get you a beverage. What a guy. Well, there's a two-item minimum, so you're going to need to. I'll get me and you. You guys are well-versed. Oh, yeah. I was there's a two-item minimum, so you're going to need two. That's how it works. Me and you. You guys are well-versed. Oh, yeah.

I was just there last week. I saw Theo Vaughn. Oh, yeah. Hilarious. That's right. He was great. George and I were at the Seinfeld. And that's right.

The next night. The very next night, yeah. Look at us comedy buffs. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Who's your favorite comedian, Andrew? Me.

All right. I like that answer. Come on. Yeah. Right now? Yeah, right now. Let's go, Mr. All right. I like that answer. Come on. Yeah. Right now? Yeah, right now. Let's go, Mr. Big Shot. I'd say Joe List.

Oh, yeah. Joe List. Okay. Very good. All right. Fantastic. This is very exciting. Well, Andrew, we're very excited for you.

Please do what we say, because I think it's going to make your comedy career a whole lot less stressful. Yes, so I just won't do anything. I would not buy a house right now. George and I are in agreement. Keep that money invested. Let it grow. Keep stacking on top of that. And who knows? Maybe one day you can pay cash for the house.

Yeah, I like that. That'd be pretty sweet. Tell you what. What we need to do is you need to send Andrew, if he's going to connect to you on the gram, you need to send him some of your ideas. For my comedy bits? Maybe I can open for him? Maybe you open for him. Maybe he pulls you up there for two minutes.

That would be a real treat. Because I'm going to be there. I'm putting a little pressure on Andrew to get George up there. Maybe we get old Kenny boy up there. I'll tell you. Give him a tight five. I'll do an I gotta tell you. I'll just do a rant on all my I gotta tell you's about all the things that irritate me. That's a fun fact. Anytime Ken says I gotta tell you to start a just do a rant on all my I gotta tell you's about all things that irritate me. Anytime Ken says I gotta tell you to start a sentence, it's going to be a good story.

I love it. Oh my goodness. We're just getting started, folks. Don't move. Quick break. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Let's go to Dave, who's in Detroit, Michigan. Dave, how can we help? Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. I'm 36 years old, and I just need an advice on, I've racked up about a million dollar debt before I apparently started listening to you guys. Wow. My mortgage from $900 a month has gone up to about $4,500 a month.

And I'm just trying, I'm just very concerned because I've been constantly listening to you guys and Dave to see, okay, what's the best way to tackle some of this. I've got two investment properties in my family house, and I'm trying to combine all and, you know, with the current market, I just don't feel like I should sell. So what would be the best advice in terms of getting, you know, financially out of the situation, I guess.

So when you say you have a million dollars in debt, is that consumer debt or are you including all of these mortgages? Just the mortgages. I had some car loans as soon as I started listening. I had the money already saved up. So I paid off my car. It was about $1,200 in the car loan that was left. I was planning to buy another car.

I stopped that already. So I've got a two-under-three-year-old baby, so I was planning to buy a minivan. Already stopped that plan. Okay, so you have no consumer debt. You just have a mortgage and then a rental mortgage and another rental mortgage. Correct. And you're saying your total payments add just have a mortgage and then a rental mortgage and another rental mortgage? Correct.

And you're saying your total payments add up to $4,500 a month or is that just on the one mortgage? Just on my primary house mortgage. Both the other houses, the investment properties are more or less self-sustaining. The other one I have got a bit of a positive cash flow for about $900 a month. Okay, so if you sold both rentals, what would you net after paying off the loans? I would probably have $60,000 additional because I bought all those houses, maybe around the peak, one of the houses around the peak of the market.

So I may have to sell for maybe a little bit less. Yes. Okay. And then the current house, the previous house, I may make about $120,000 on that. So you said your mortgage went from $900,000 to $4,500,000? So I used to live in one of the properties that I'm renting right now. I just moved last year. Okay. And you have a wife?

Yes, I do have a wife. She was working before the maternity leave. Now she's no longer working because of the two kids. Okay. So just your income, what do you make a year? I make about $160,000 a year. Okay. And that's before any rent.

I'm sure the rental income isn't much at this point. Like you said, it's barely cash flowing. Yeah. I got maybe about $900 from one house. That's a month. You called in because you don't want to be in debt anymore. And so to pay off these, you know, to have your, you know, the idea is people get into real estate investment thinking, well, the renter is going to pay my mortgage. So it'll just be super easy and no stress. Well, as you know, it doesn't really work out like that. And so that you have a few options. Number one is you just tackle these mortgages on these rentals, or you sell the one you like the least and you start to help. I would, if I'm in your shoes, I would probably just start from scratch, get rid of the rentals, pay down your primary home, because $4,500 a month is not sustainable for your income.

I agree. I make about $10,000 a month. So half of your income is going to the mortgage. Yes. Yes. Which tells me there's no way to, we're not going to be able to get this mortgage lower unless we just sell and downsize. Could you sell and downsize to a different home? I would rather not, since it's, you know,

something that I bought for the kids and I'm trying to live this. For the kids, they're two years old. They don't know what, they won't remember this house. Don't say it's for the kids. The kids are going to watch you and mom be in stress for the rest of your life

because half of your income is going towards this house. It was a very hard decision to buy the house and I just don't feel. But yeah, I think you're right. Okay, well, you tell me. What do you want to do? Yeah, I want to be financially free.

That's all. But what do you want to do? What is your next step? Let's say you hang up today and you say, forget those guys on the show. Who I called to get their opinion. You tell me what you think is the best move for you. So I've got about $650,000 on my primary house as a mortgage. And the rest is on those two houses. So even if I were to sell those two houses, I could make a bit of a dent on my primary house and get maybe a bit lower on the mortgage and then start to pay off. Maybe like every year I could save maybe about $60,000, $70,000 and start to pay maybe in the five-year plan. Or the other option, like you said, is just downsizing to a smaller house or

maybe move to my older house, which is the one that's cash flowing about $900 a month. So now tell me, which of those plans gets you the most peace in the quickest amount of time? I think selling my current home would. I may have to take a big hit, though, about $120,000 on that one if I were to sell it. Because you can't get what you paid for it? Yes, sir. You can pause as long as you want to make this decision, but half of your income is going toward that mortgage, and these properties aren't cash flowing, which means you're losing money.

It's adding stress to your life. I would sell the rentals, take that $60,000. I would sell your house, take that 120. That gives you 180 to put on your next residence as you downgrade. And hopefully we can get that mortgage lower to about 2,500 on a 15-year fix. That's your sweet spot making 10K a month. Yeah. That's the problem to solve for.

I don't know. I mean, I wish that I could change the numbers and stamp my fingers, Dave. I want to be helpful. But there's a lot of, just a lot of debt. And you can undo a lot of it because it's just sitting there in the properties. But I don't think continuing down this path is going to be a blessing for you. I just wish my wife would have started working maybe with the kids. Maybe she was making about $100,000 before, which is not coming in anymore.

Dave, it feels like George laid this thing out for you about as clear as anybody could lay out, and you're just sitting there in pain realizing how dumb your decisions were. And then as soon as he lays that out and he's just going, look, you can get out of this. It's going to be painful, but it's more painful to stay in it. You're laughing about it. And then your first comment is, I wish my wife had been making more money. Like, I feel like it's lost on you what is going on here, which is just owning the fact that you didn't make some good decisions. And now you've got a chance to get out of it.

It's going to be painful, but you've got to do it. It just feels like you're not, I mean i mean again you do what you want to do but it doesn't feel like you really locked in and accepted personal responsibility am i right or am i am i wrong yes you are right sir and i'm sorry if i'm laughing no no no no you can laugh all you know one of one of the thing that i was i was just listening in maybe previous calls was looking at some of these Instagram realtors and trying to get into the real estate. And that's how I got into this, apparently. You saw an Instagram reel and they were like, you need to get investment property now. There's a crazy idea. I watched an Instagram reel and got myself stuck.

Any Instagram reel that causes a million dollar mistake is one worth unfollowing yeah so i'm glad you learned the lesson but dave i guess i'm trying to just lay it on you here i'm trying to spur you to action stop talking about your wife and her making 100 and not making 100 you got into this because you watched the wrong instagram accounts you got under that you got into this because you wanted to get rich quick. Yes. I know. So it's okay. There's no shame. All right. And you will survive this. This is not life or death. You're not in a crisis situation, but we need to make some drastic changes. And whether you do that now or three months from now and hope the market does whatever, I don't know what the market's going to do. It may get worse for a while before it gets better. But I do know this, your life is real tight right now. And you got two little babies

and you want to see them flourish and grow and you want to have joy. I don't want to see you distracted by money stress during that as they grow up. They're not going to remember the house. I promise they're going to remember their dad being there, making eye contact, and they channel your energy. It's contagious. Their nervous system will take on the stress that you have. Yeah, so true. Yeah, I was just kind of hoping there's one more Instagram reel. Dave was like, maybe there's one more I can watch.

Maybe it's kind of George-lite. Unless it's me talking about real estate, telling you not to do it unless you're ready, maybe unsubscribe. Unfollow that account. Oh, my goodness. Keep scrolling. Oh, good stuff there, George. Good advice. I love it unless you're ready, maybe unsubscribe. Unfollow that account. Oh my goodness. Keep scrolling. Good stuff there, George. Good advice. I love it when you get tough. You know, when I don't feel good, I get just a little grumpy. Yeah, a little grumpy. I'm sorry, America. Go get some meds.

This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. The phone number is 888-825- 5225. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. And we're here for you this hour, George, to lead out on your money questions. I'm here on your income and getting promoted, growing, maybe

starting that business. Income, income, income is where I'm here to help. So let's, we'll team up together. Make you more money. Keep it. Invest it. Save it well is our goal. 888-825-5225. Mike is going to start us off this hour in Charleston, South Carolina. Mike, how can we help? Hey, guys. How are you doing today? Good. How are you? Good, good. So yeah, I was calling in. I have a question, obviously, about what we're all talking about here. So I have about $70K in debt, make close to $70K, don't have a house yet, and I'm in one of those debt management payment programs, which puts me about two years out of paying off.

So I'd be thinking to not do that, especially when going toward trying to buy a house eventually, or just do bankruptcy now. Why? Where did bankruptcy come into play? Yeah, that was a little aggressive. Well, because that's what I first thought before I started reading George's book. That's the route I was going to take just to kind of start fresh now that I have a different outlook and mindset on money

and all the things that we have possible and available to us. Made dumb mistakes when I was younger, trying to fix that now that I have a family. But what about $7,000 in debt makes you think, well, I had to file bankruptcy? Seventy. Seventy. Seventy, and you make 70? Yeah, with commissions. Okay.

So let's talk about this debt. What kind of debt is this? A little bit of everything, like a little bit of car, a little bit of student loans, a little bit of credit, probably about the least is the car. Okay, what's left on the car loan? Twelve. And the student loans? Twenty-eight, but half of that will be paid by my job if it takes about five years

if you stay with the job what happens if you leave before the five years well then obviously you know you're you know what happens i don't get it but i don't plan on going anywhere knock on wood so if you stay there five years they'll they'll pay off half in full like with a lump sum? No, they're currently paying off through it. It's just that it'll take about five years to hit half. Got it. Okay, and then your credit cards?

24-ish. And that's everything? I think so. Oh, I do have a personal loan and a personal loan. Okay. About 12. What's the car worth? Probably a couple thousand more.

It's probably worth 15 or 16? Yeah. Okay. So, number one, you do not have to file bankruptcy, and you shouldn't. Number two, these debt settlement programs are a borderline scam. I think you probably know that by now. Did you pay them money, and they said, hey, we'll take care of it, stop making payments, your credit's going to tank, and then we'll negotiate? Was that their plan? No, that's the consolidation.

I'm working on one of those not-for-profit ones where they've reached out to my creditors to negotiate better interest rates. Okay. I'm still making payments. I make them the payment, and then I watch as they distribute the payment to the creditors. Okay. Can you get out of this?

I've never seen them do it. I mean, probably. Because you can negotiate interest rates on your own. You can call and say, hey, can you lower the rate? I'm trying to pay this down. So I tried that last year, and I only got headway on two out of like the 12 I have. I know that's another story I'm going to do. Well, the interest rate's not the problem here.

We need to make some headway on the debt, and right now it feels like you're delegating all of this to other people. Your work, this debt settlement place. You need to start pounding the pavement, throwing as much as you can onto these payments using the debt snowball method. So your next smallest debt is the car loan? Yes. Just not to cut you off, but to go back to what you just said, I'm using the budget app, I'm under by 900 bucks. And that's with the better payments, lower payment, lower interest rate through the program. So you're in the red by $900. What would you say is the reason for that as you look at the budget? Is your rent or mortgage too high?

A little bit of everything, I guess. Is it lifestyle? I mean, I know I eat out too much much but it's not $900 worth well you need to actually the budget is going to reflect the plan but it doesn't reflect reality of how you're spending so what you need to do

I just read the book just started the budget I'll get a better view of it after this month so it might not be do you have the premium version of every dollar? No, I just started with the basic. Okay, with the book, you'll see the QR code in the book. It'll give you three months of premium.

So check that out. I do have that, sorry. It'll connect to your bank account. You can track the transactions. Great. So here's the deal. I show people how to go from negative $1,000 every month to positive $1 positive 1200, but what it takes is sacrifice. So look at every single line item. Here's the question you need to ask. Can I do better? Can I do better? Which means, uh, my

insurance, let me call and call our friends at Zander and see if they can re re, uh, shop my insurance. I just saved our friend, a coworker here, 80 bucks a month just by having her reshop. She got better coverage for cheaper. Next, look at all of your lifestyle and go, I don't need this subscription. I'm cutting this gym membership. I don't need this over here. I'm going to cut eating out altogether. I'm going to meal plan, switch my grocery store. I'm getting a tax refund. So I'm going to change my tax withholdings. All of that combined, it may not feel like a lot at once, but as you start to do seven or eight of these things, and in that margin is breathing room chapter of my book, it's going to give you a lot of tips on ways you can cut down. Then the other side is make more. You said you've got commissions as well? Yeah. The job is the good thing. This all started when I took the job,

which involved about an $18,000 pay cut, but in the long run, it's better. Yeah, and I want to jump in. Listen, Mike, a lot of this to me is mindset. I really hope you come off of this call realizing that you do not need to file bankruptcy, and that was never a good option. You can actually figure your way out of this, and it's going to be a lot better for you. That's what I want you to understand is I want you to believe that you actually can get this under control. And to be honest with you, what you're going to come away with this, Mike, having done this on your own and not using the bankruptcy kind of panic button and kind of doing the restart is you'll actually get into a place where you'll never be tempted to do this stuff

again. Am I right, George? Absolutely. And look at the numbers, Mike, because I want you out of debt in two years. So what does that mean? You have 70,000, that's 35,000 a year. That's going to be, you know, if you did 2,900 a month, you would be done in two years. Now you're going, well, dude, I don't have 2,900 a month to throw at the debt. Well, this is a solvable problem now. We need to find 2,900 bucks of margin by spending less and making more, like Ken talks about. So whether it's commissions, whether it's side hustles, everything you can do to create $2,900 of margin will get you out of debt in two years. Do you believe that? I mean, I believe it, but I also believe that with that program, that's saving me over

$300 a month in payment. What's your rent right now? $1,100. You got roommates? I'm sorry, no. No, sorry, $2,100. Yeah, you make $4,000 a month and $2,100 is going to rent. Yeah.

This is me calling, so I didn't put any money into it. So there's a little money coming in. You just made excuses again, Mike. You said, this program is saving me. Instead of you going, I can save me $300,000 and $400,000 and $1,000,000 and $1,500,000. You need to do it. I don't think you got anything that George said.

I hope you do what we tell you to do because it's going to save you a lot of heartache. And the bankruptcy is not your friend. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life, win with your money, win in your work, win in your relationships. 888-825-5225. Gennaro, I hope I'm saying that right, in Atlanta, Georgia is up next. How can we help? Hello. Good afternoon, sir.

Thank you for having me on. You bet. How can we help? So I'll try to keep this brief. So I am an independent contractor at 1099. I make roughly $900 every single week. And I am a disabled veteran making $755 per month. My situation, I've always been financially pretty incompetent.

You know, I've taken out like personal loans. I had like credit card debt and, you know, and I've always just kind of paid the minimums and always been floating. Recently, I was involved in an incident that landed me briefly in the hospital, and I got a $11,000 bill. My parents came in. They actually kind of gave me a second chance. They swooped in, took care of it,

and with the promise that I would pay them off sometime next year, they didn't give me a date, and that really gave me a wake-up call. I would take a hard look at my finances. I've actually been able to, after taking that hard look and having that lifestyle change, I've been paying my debts off at about $500 every single week. And my question is, I'm hoping I'm not about to do something pretty, pretty dumb and the ambition to pay them back as soon as possible. So I have roughly $1,700 left of this personal loan and about $5,700 left in my car. And I should have that personal loan paid off within the next two weeks with my $500 per week plan.

And the car loan, sorry, sorry, I forgot an important detail. I've been putting away about 25% of every single paycheck still into this other separate savings because tax seasons, and I'm new to being a 1099. My question, I don't know if this is going to be a really bad idea, but I was holding to, when I started on my car payments, I'm still putting away that 25% into my tax savings for next year. I was thinking of when I lower the car payments to the equal amount that I have saved up for taxes next year, I was planning on dumping everything I have into that account into the car loan to pay it off and then dumping roughly 40% to 50% of my paycheck to recoup that for the remainder of the year in preparation for taxes and hopefully to pocket some to build on my savings more to start paying off my parents. I don't know if that would be a bad idea or no or not. So let me recap to make sure we understand

here. You're wanting to use the money you've set aside to pay taxes as a contractor and instead pay down your car loan once you have the amount in full. But then you need to turn around and use way more of your future income to save back up the tax fund. Yes, sir. The part that worries me there is I don't know if your budget can handle that, if you're going to be able to cover all of your expenses with the remaining percentage. So I'm pretty lucky.

I live in a very low-rent area. I pay, with all utilities included, about $675 per month. And my job is literally a mile and a half away from where I live. So since I've cut out eating out and stuff like that, I literally am filling up my gas tank about once a month. So what's your total take-home pay? Right now? Without me taking like a 25% aside and stuff like that?

Yes. Let's take out the 25%. Let's say take home minus that 25% because that's set aside for taxes. I'm bringing home $900 per week. 900 per week. Yes, sir. Okay. $3,600 per month. And then what are your actual expenses for the month to cover all your bills and minimum debt payments? I mean, I have like my internet bill, my streaming subscriptions, all that totals up to around $300. I haven't the exact number yet. Everything, with your rent, insurance, debt payments, all of that. What does that add up

to in a month? Let me take up the calculator. So $675 is my rent per month. $80 is about my internet bill. The other subscription services are, I'm going to say, roughly about $250 to $300, sir. Okay, but we still haven't put food on the table. We still didn't get gas. So here's the overall thing. The numbers are less important. I'm trying to make sure that 50% of your income going towards taxes is actually sustainable. It sounds like a great plan on paper to get rid of debt faster,

but you also might be shooting yourself in the foot later on down the road where you go, oh crap, I need to save up 10 grand for a tax bill and I can't do it in time. Because you have to pay that tax bill on time, regardless of when you file, the money is due on tax day. Yes, sir. Yeah, that's what I was afraid of because this will be my second year filing as a 1099. And the first year, you know, I had a lot of deductions because I was buying everything for the job. And, you know, I only put it by 10%. And I was lucky enough to walk away with $900 on that. I'm just saying your plan got you here so far. It doesn't sound like you're doing a budget. I'm going to gift you every dollar premium to help you get on a plan so that you are very aware of all of your numbers, what it adds up to, and then you can make the decision.

But if it slows down your debt payment process, but you have the tax money, I'm okay with that. Yeah, just do not use the tax money for anything other than taxes. Period. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is the old phrase that comes to mind. And the tax man cometh, and you've got to make sure they get paid first. Ooh, man. Yikes, I wouldn't do it. Joshua's up next in Ottawa. Boy, that's always fun. Joshua,

how can we help? Hi. So I'm in a bit of a fun but unique situation. I am a disabled veteran. I have a crate set up for that, but we're trying to sell our house and we actually want to move on to a sailboat with our five kids for the next two to five years to see the world with them. Yeah. So the question is about the fully funded emergency cushion. So I have about 24K left in debt that I'd be paying off. My house is on the market for 1.9 million.

That's where I've been spending all my extra hours for the past decade and a half rebuilding an old farmhouse. So the thing is, even if I go with six months of my total income, I end up with $67,000 in my emergency cushion, pushing through step three and then step four being retirement savings for 15% moving forward. I got covered. Kids University is covered because my kids get the benefit through the VA, through me. Obviously, we'd be paying off our house in full. And then when we sell the boat in two to five years, that becomes the budget for the new house, period.

No more dollars. So we can just stay on step seven for the rest of our life in sort of one pale shot. The question I have is that in the crazy event that like all four of my kids' grandparents die successively and my boat ends up somewhere where it gets hit by a hurricane, my insurance deductible

goes to 10% of the value of the boat from 2% of the value of the boat, meaning that my $67,000 emergency cushion wouldn't even cover my $75,000 deductible on the boat. And my question is, should I be adjusting my emergency cushion in light of the fact that this quite unusual circumstance could necessitate if like every negative star aligned, or should I just stick with the six months? I mean, That feels like an apocalyptic plan. But if you wanted to go to 75, which covers your deductible, I think that's a fine move. I have a question. Is this the move?

Yeah. Well, before that, I guess I have a question. Let's say it happened today. This apocalyptic scenario happened today. What would you do if you didn't have the emergency fund to cover it? What would your reaction be? I mean, right now, being in the house and not being in the circumstance where we're cruising on the water. No, I'm playing out your scenario. There's a method to my madness here.

So let's say you're in the boat, all these awful things happen, and you don't have the emergency fund to cover it. What would you do? The deductible? Yeah. I mean, given the fact do? Given the fact that, given the fact that it would be less than a 10K gap, I would try to bridge that out of my cash flow. All right. And what if you couldn't do that? What would you do? Then I'd be stuck doing what I don't want to do, where I might have to borrow something. Or sell the boat?

Oh, yeah. I'm no boat expert. There we go. So, Joshua. Yeah, but if I sell the boat and it's hurricane damaged, right, I lose a lot. I know, but I just – Yeah, that becomes a lesser – Do you see what I did there? I just kind of walked you right up into, like, come on, man.

Like, if you want to do it, that's fine. But if you're so worried about all of this, is this the right decision for us to sell the house and go on the big giant exploration? I think that's where George was going, and I have some questions about that, too. Man, you've just come up with the absolute worst case of all

worst case scenarios, and then said, what do I do? I'm familiar with playing that, for sure. I think you are, and I think you're going to be okay. Appreciate the call. Watch Gilligan's Island first. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us.

I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Well, I don't know how many of you watching or listening were around when the pandemic happened and we had our cruise planned. You and I were ready. I think we bought matching outfits for one day. Our trunks were packed, if you can even call them that. They're more of a Borat situation.

I think it was, yeah. No, we're kidding. But the Live Like No One Else cruise is actually back, George. Have you heard? You and I are heading to the high seas. I actually can't wait. You're excited about it? Yeah. I've never been on a cruise as

an adult, so to get to go... Oh, I see. I know our tickets are paid for. Thanks, Dave. Yeah. I'm looking forward to it for a lot of reasons. The actual sailing and on the sea, the high seas, I don't do so well. Oh, really? So we'll see how I do. Need some Dramamine?

Maybe. I've only done it once. But other than that, it's going to be a lot of fun. Yeah, we've got a spectacular crew. You and me and all the Ramsey personalities, including the big man himself, Dave Ramsey, I think I'm going to try to get him to wear the skipper hat from Gilligan's Island. I doubt he'll do it, but I'm going to bring it with me and see if I can get him to put it on. And maybe do a little

steering of the ship? No, you know he'd love that. Certainly full horn. That's a good photo op right there. It's an ultimate debt-free vacation. Seven days at sea, George. That's amazing. March 22nd through the 29th. Here's the deal. This is not for everyone. In fact, it may not be for you if you're listening or watching.

This is for those who are debt-free, meaning you're in baby step four, five, six, seven. We want to celebrate with you. Please do not go on this cruise if you're drowning in debt and you just want to hang out with us. We'll go another time. I promise. But if you've paid off the debt, you've worked hard, now is the time to celebrate. There you go.

Bring the spouse. Bring a friend. Come solo. Bring the kids. Have a good time. celebrate. There you go. Bring the spouse. Bring a friend. Come solo. Bring the kids. Have a good time. All the personalities will be there, Dave included, as well as some very special guests. How about some special friends? Yeah, it's Stephen Curtis Chapman, Manit Chauhan, Deanna Carter, and more, I'm told.

We've got magicians, comedians, musicians, and then Ken. George and I will be doing balloon animals for the children near the pool one day. That's always a big thing. Some people have called me a clown, so I think that we can market that. Guess where we're going, George? Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, San Juan, which is Puerto Rico, the capital. Lovely place. Downtown area.

Gorgeous. Old fort area. Maybe I'll do a little historical tour. Maybe I'll do an excursion. I think for the senior citizens who just want to take a nap, that would be a great tour for you. Oh, George, why do you hate me so much? I don't understand it. Every time you talk about history, it makes me not want to learn about history. Okay, I got it. And the Bahamas. We'll also be going to the Bahamas. So I'll take a tour. There you go. VIP upgrades are already sold out. Most of the suites are sold out. Many of the cabin types are

completely sold out. But if you want to get in, now's the time because it's going to sell out. You need to get your deposit in now if you want the few remaining ocean views or else you're going to be down in about the sixth level where George is going to be with all the cargo. That's where they put me. It's a weight distribution thing. They need to be down there. So book your cabin now at ramseysolutions.com slash cruise. That's where they put me. It's a weight distribution thing. They need me down there.

So book your cabin now at RamseySolutions.com slash cruise. RamseySolutions.com slash cruise. In fact, we met a lady earlier in the show today out in the lobby who said she was coming to the cruise. Looking forward to that. Very exciting. Boy, are you going to need to bring a vat, and I mean a vat of sunscreen, because you are very, very pale. I'm going to have one of those giant sun hats that will cover my entire body. That'll be great. All right, let's get back to the phones.

Eric is joining us now in Toronto. Eric, how can we help today? Hi, Jordan and Ken. How are you guys doing? We're doing great. What's going on? So when I had initially written into the show, I was planning on asking about potentially visiting some family overseas. However, something happened to me recently that has gotten me pretty shaken, and I was hoping to sort of talk to you guys about it. Yeah, hit us. What happened? So I was laid off on Friday. Oh, man. What happened there?

So it was my first job in the trades. I wanted, I was originally a bartender for a while, but I was looking for something more long-term as a career. And so, um, I thought it was doing well and I felt like I was cut out for it. But, um, as time went on at my job, then I felt like my boss and I were not getting along very well. I felt like, um, uh, all the sort of issues I had with the way work was going and, um, I had with my boss was, um, sort of impacting my job. Um, however, I, let me see. Um, I don't want to delve too deep into it just because I think

it's more productive to me to look introspectively and I think about how I can better myself. Well, the only thing I would, I would want to know on this is, is this it would be the second one, but I also, um. Were you struggling to do your actual job from a competency standpoint? Not really. No, I was very, I was very, I believed myself a lot based on the things I knew and what I could do. I just think he didn't believe in me. Okay. What trade were you in? Electrical. Okay. And what's the market like in Toronto for electricians?

It's okay. I see a few postings out there, but I'm not a registered apprentice with a college, so I need to, or that's pretty much my downfall right now. I need to find a new employer who's willing to sign me on as an apprentice. It's just a commitment. So, um, that's the next step I think for me. Okay. All right. So how can we help you specifically today? Um, I'm really struggling because I feel like I've lost my sense of purpose. I'm engaged, and my fiance and I have bought a condo,

which I'm sure you've heard Toronto real estate is really expensive. I've lacked confidence when it comes to reaching out to potential employers. Is this because of the relationship with this get this last boss yeah okay so that's why i was digging a little bit um right if do you have confidence in your ability to do the electrical work yeah like i've been... That doesn't sound very confident. Am I reading into that? No, I think I was about to do work for a buddy of mine that is cottage, and I was very excited to do it because I was excited to help him out,

and I knew I could finish off the job, for example. And so my biggest frustration with my boss is just that he didn't believe in me. Okay, so you were new on the job, and was the frustration, the evidence that he didn't believe in you was that he wasn't giving you work to do, or he was only letting you do minor, kind of more labor-intensive stuff, not like real electrical work? Or what was going on? No, towards the very end, it was getting more electrical and work, and I was actually enjoying my work a little more. But there was about a month of work there when I was kept in the shop just organizing screws and whatnot. Okay, and that was the part that sucked the soul out of you. Yeah, very much so.

That was actually words I used to describe how I felt coming home from work every day. Well, I get it, but you're asking me about confidence. So let me tell you what I think is the key to confidence. Number one, it's very normal for your confidence to be shaken when you've been fired. Okay? So I can tell you that psychology experts have done research and have basically found that losing a job is the same traumatic effect on someone as losing a loved one. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. And you're feeling it right now. So number one, you're not weak,

you're not damaged, you're pretty normal and it sucks. So that's one thing. Secondly, the key to confidence is always getting clear. People who aren't clear on a certain issue will not have confidence on making a decision or moving forward on an issue. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. In other words, we have people call the show all the time. George is taking a ton of calls today where people weren't clear how to get out of debt. And then he makes it clear for them.

And then they can see a path forward, and if they can see it, then they can believe it. So here's what I'm telling you. You have to retreat back to clarity. Get around some people that absolutely know that you're good at electrical work. Remind yourself that you've done X amount of certification or qualification work up to this point. Remind yourself of that, okay?

And then over the next couple days, go ahead and grieve this loss because that's what it is. Have some fun. Be around positive people. Make a list of things you're grateful for today. And then immediately get right back up and go apprentice, go work, go do as much electrical work as you can do anywhere and everywhere, and you'll remind yourself really quickly that you, in fact, can do the job. But getting clear on what you can do will push you forward to do it. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 21.5, plans of the diligent lead surely to abundance, but everyone who is hasty comes only to poverty. Our quote of the day from Franklin Delano Roosevelt, in politics, nothing happens by accident. If it is happening, you can bet it was planned that way. There you go. All right, to the phones we go. Linda is joining us now in St. Paul, Minnesota. Linda, how can we help? Hi, Ken and George. How great to talk to you today. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's going on? So my son will be a senior in high school next year and, um, I grew up poor. And so, um, my brother saved, um, was able to save,

um, money. So out of his life savings, he wants to send my son to college and have the whole thing paid for. Um, and so, yeah, just amazed. So, um, two parts to my question. First of all, how do I, how do I ask, or how do I tell my son that his whole college is paid for and not, and, and still, and still a work ethic with him? I mean, he's got a job right now. He's been working and working, trying to save for college. And then I don't want him to just stop working through college and take it for granted. And I'm just not sure how to give him like a hundred thousand dollars. Well, I don't know how to, how to give him that and then how do i how do we say thank you for this gift i don't i'm not even i get choked up because i can't believe

it that's great let's take the thank you on first um how would you want someone to thank you for such a strong and you know future focus gift like this i mean i would just strong and, you know, future-focused gift like this. I mean, I would just think through it, you know. You know your brother well, you know, knowing him, knowing the situation. Put yourself in his shoes, you know. How would you want someone to thank you that way? And it's not about pomp and circumstance, right? It's just about a meaningful thank you. But I just wouldn't overthink that, you know?

But I think you inherently know how to talk to your brother. I think there's a thank you from you. I certainly think there's a thank you from the son. You may have to coach your son along. George, I think I would be coaching my boys along going, okay, you know, maybe- Here's how to handle this. Maybe think about this and this and this to thank your uncle. Well, one of the best ways to say thank you is with his actions of working really hard in school, finishing in four years, getting good grades, and not squandering this gift of a free education.

And so that's part of it. And you mentioned sort of like, how do I do it? We just can't just give him $100,000. Well, you don't. You don't just deposit $100 thousand dollars into an 18 year old's account. I would have, I would have the brother pay. I would have him pay directly.

Yeah. That way the money stays in your brother's hands. And George, I was also going to throw out there, I would have a written contract of sorts, some agreement between your son and your brother, where your brother says this a hundred grand goes to four years. It does not count any failed classes. You know what I mean? Put some parameters out there. So you're not going to go into debt. Your son knows this isn't just a hundred grand. This is with these actions attached to it. Does that make sense? Yes. Like stipulations. Yeah. Like it covers four years. It's not a five-year plan it's four-year

plan um it doesn't cover failed classes if he I'm not saying your son's gonna fail a class but I'm just trying to give you some ideas on where he realizes isn't a slush fund this is for the degree and only for the degree right and if you're going to tell him before college you know when it comes to college planning it's important to say here's our budget just like if you were planning to build a house or go on a vacation we have a hundred thousand dollars here's what the actual costs are going to be we have to stay within that which means here are your options now he might also get scholarships and maybe there's a cool bonus where hey any scholarships you get uh doesn't count toward the hundred so if you get 50 000 scholarships and it costs 50 000 to go he might actually walk

away with a big pile of money at the end how cool would that be to start off his life oh so there could be some cool i would talk to your brother and say hey let's talk through some of the parameters let's work up a little contract and make it fun. It's not a legally binding scary. It's just something to get him excited about the future and get him to have some skin in the game. And depending on where the school is, I mean, his cost could be well over $100,000. So hopefully that gets your son thinking, well, where can I go for four years less than $100,000? You know, you start looking at state schools. I don't know what the situation is in Minnesota, but, you know but you can go to two years of essentially community college in Tennessee for free.

Of course, that word's thrown about. Taxpayers are picking it up. The child is not, the young person is not paying tuition. So looking at the full landscape of where your son wants to go, what he wants to accomplish, what are his options, how far will the $100,000 go, and it needs to be attached to tuition and tuition only. Okay. Or room and board and, you know, anything associated with college, I should stipulate. Is that helpful?

How do I, yeah, yep, it sure does. How do you what? You still got to question your wrestling one. How do I impart on my son? How do I tell him he's got to have a major picked out? Because I have a feeling he's still kind of undecided. Does he go to school undecided? Sure. A lot of kids do. And wait to figure it out. Sure, a lot of kids do. Most people don't have their life figured at 18. I barely still have my life figured out. And I went to a four-year college and graduated. It was a communication degree. I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do, but he'll have a direction. And Ken's got a ton of resources to help students figure that out. Yeah, I'll give your son the new book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. it's got the Get Clear Assessment in it, and I think it's a fantastic resource for him.

But picking a major is different than what we're talking about, where we put some stipulations of responsibility in there so that he doesn't in any way think, oh, this is just $100,000. This is a bank account that I get to kind of play with. That's what you called about. That's what you were concerned about, and that's what we're addressing, as to how you make sure that he understands what this really is. Yes, because I didn't want him to go buy a car or something.

Well, again, I'd keep the funds in. It's like your brother's a steward, and your brother's the one cutting the checks. If he's turning in his grades, it's kind of like, all right, I'm going to keep paying next year. I'd get your brother involved in this and tell your brother your concerns, and I think that's probably your brother's heart too, right? Right. Yeah. Well, then this is pretty simple stuff. And ask your brother, hey, if he only spends 70 because he does it really wisely and maybe does some years at community college, can he use the extra 30 to start his adult life and get that car or use it toward a down payment. And so have those conversations to see what your brother's comfortable with. It's his money. And so he'll have a say in that. And then make a plan for that and sit out and have

a fun but serious conversation with your son. Yeah. I like that idea, by the way, having you and your brother kind of come up with a, and again, this needs to be pomp and circumstance, doesn't need to be that, but some type of way of presenting this information to him. Yeah. No trumpets needed, But that was well done, George. Thank you. But Linda, make it special. Make it something where it's a big deal, and I think your son will pretty easily figure out the way to this, don't you?

Yeah, I think so. Is he entitled now, if you had to describe him? Is he what? Is he entitled now? No, no. I mean, he knows that I didn't have any money growing up, so it's really hard for me to spend money. So he's really good at- He saw mom work her tail off and he saw that money comes from work. And so money only makes you more of whoever you are. It's a magnifying glass. And so if he's not entitled now,

I don't think giving him this money to cover college is going to cause him to be entitled and destroy his life. Right. Good. All right, Linda. I hope that helps. It's very exciting. Linda, super simple.

I would bring your brother into this. It feels like even you're unsure about all of this. And just let the brother and you kind of come alongside of this and let your brother lay out the stipulations, lay out why he's giving your son this gift. I mean, this is an extraordinary thing. Good on your brother. What a good man he is.

That inspires me to maybe I'll make that move one day. Oh, Uncle George. Yeah. Giving you a nice gift to get the kids through college debt-free. Yeah, yeah. It's great. Well, I'd love to talk to you about Ty. That, Uncle George. Yeah. Giving you a nice gift to go get the kids through college debt-free. Yeah, yeah. That's great. Well, I'd love to talk to you about Ty.

That'd be great. He thinks of you as Uncle George already. He probably sees me as the creepy honorary uncle vibe. That's about right. Oh, I love it.

Good stuff. Always fun to be with you, George. Thank you, my friend. Thanks to Kelly Daniel sitting in for the esteemed James Childs. I just want to thank our crew for keeping us on the air as well.

And you, America, for listening. To our lovely studio audience. You all are great folks as well. We'll be back with you. Before you know it,changing content from Ramsey? Hey, folks, Dave here. You want to hear even more life-changing content from Ramsey? Download the Ramsey Network app so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place, like the Ramsey Show, Smart Money Happy Hour, and the Dr. John Deloney Show.

You'll get real talk about life, relationships, money, and your career. Plus, the app lets you browse by topic like debt, business, or selling your home. Get the content you want whenever and wherever you want to listen. Download the Ramsey Network app today.