The Ramsey Show - Quit Blaming Your Past And Take Control Of Your Money

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, host of the breakaway hit on Ramsey Network, called Front Row Seat. He is my co-host today.

Open phones at AAA 825-5-225. So you guys watching Front Row Seat and pulling it up, Ken, you did a really cool recording yesterday. They're not going to want to miss. My good friend Willie was here. Willie Robertson of Duck Dynasty fame in town. It was so fun. he's in town to hang with you, apparently. Yeah, we had dinner with Pat last night.

That's right. So fun. He's become a close friend over the last several years. But I think on front row seat, you guys are going to be... Very entertaining. Entertaining. Yeah, we got some fun stories. Anything you have to do with Willie is always entertaining.

That's right. Dinner with Willie's entertaining. I surprised him with a photo. What's all we'll say, gave him an envelope, told him to open it. And we legitimately, we did some great... research. He was delighted and surprised. Let's put it this way. It was from Willie's athletic past. And what people don't realize is that Willie's a sneaky good athlete, according to his brother, Jace. And you know, Willie can hit the cover off a golf ball. It can knock it a mile.

300-yard drives. It's nuts. Yeah. It's nuts. And that always surprised me, too. Yeah. Because, I mean, usually guys wearing camo don't hit a golf ball that far. But yeah, just what do I know? But he can. He's serious. And we bit competitive, too. A little chirpy on the golf course. I imagine he is. Can get under somebody's skin. I hit the ground on a warm-up swing, and he goes, hey, Ramsey, 8-1-1.

Call for you dig. Ouch. It's four and a half hours of that. I'm just saying. So there you go. Hey, it's going to be great. Check it out. Willie Robinson coming up in the next few weeks, it'll drop on front row seat recorded yesterday.

Joe is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Hi, Joe. How are you? Hey, I'm doing well, guys. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, recently, my girlfriend and I have been talking about getting married, and I had always known that there was a discrepancy between me having some debt and her having some money. And I've always been trying to postpone getting married because I was trying to take care of the things on my end.

And so recently, I really got in. into you guys and started digging in the numbers and found out what I really owed. Kind of spooked me a little bit. It wasn't quite as a lot more than I thought it was. How much? $230,000. On what, dude? Most of it is in student loans.

How much? You got 180 of it's in student loans. You a doctor or a lawyer? Soon to be a doctor, but not a medical one. I worked through an MBA and a PhD business PhD because I wanted to go and teach. Okay. And coach golf in college. Okay.

So now we're in this situation and we're starting to think about it more. And she's been asking me a lot of questions about I used to be a financial advisor. She's been asking me a lot of questions about stuff she should invest in. And I just told her like she needed to look into the things that you guys have. suggested I should go on and talk to, you know, to somebody else. Things have changed. A lot of change. And obviously, I haven't managed money as well as I would have would like before I

start giving people advice. What's the other 50,000 in debt? It's a car, a little bit of credit cards. How much do you owe on the car? The car owes $34,000 on. Okay. And what do you do for a living? You're working on your Ph.D.

And that's your job now? no no I work in in retail I manage a bunch of retail stores and what's your income 120 is my salary okay so you've been asleep at the wheel for quite a while and just in the last few weeks woke up yes sir okay all right I'm just making sure I'm getting a full picture here okay cool yeah and so she's in she's in a really good spot I've never really known what she's had I've never really been interested in it but since she's been asking me all these questions lately She was asking some questions about raw versus, you know, just a regular 401K. And we've been talking through that stuff.

And one day she was looking through some stuff. And I, you know, she was like, well, this is what I have invested in this and that. And I was like, wow, this is just, it's really cool. You put yourself in a good position. I mean, she's got a net worth of about a million dollars. And she's not quite 40 yet. and she's making you know about 160 a year as well so we've been talking and I just was like hey you know like what do you want to do about this because I don't I hope that we're together forever

I don't ever want to put her in a bad position I love the woman and I'm just trying to figure out like should we consider if we do get married a pre-nup or should I just should we wait until I get this debt paid off that's what's kind of what my question is and trying to figure out what's the best thing to do to protect her um what's her what's her take what's her take on this well i mean we just we just started talking about this like yeah but what did she say um well she just said she's like i understand that it made to take you a little while to be able to pay this stuff off um and so if it takes a while and we have to wait then that's fine but that's really was her whole her whole thing on my never just said like do you want to wait until you know I get this paid off or do you want to try to do it a separate way you know I asked her like should we consider potentially doing it and get a pre-nup and she was like well I never really considered that I never even thought of it before and I'm like I know and again I hope it works out but it works out but it's some crazy reason it does it I would hate for like you know to feel like I'm supposed to get half of your stuff when I'm coming in with nothing and you're coming in with a lot so yeah we're gonna work out with it works for

In sickness and health, if you're going to share a bed and a life together for the next 50 years, you're going to share assets and liabilities for the next 50 years, if you're going to have a high-quality marriage and a high probability of building wealth. Now, I'm assuming as a professor with a Ph.D., when will you complete your Ph.D.? I'll have another year, probably, a year, well, depends on how long the dissertation takes, but probably about a year and a half left. Okay. And you'll be making at least what you're making now as a college professor after that, right?

Certainly. And I have flexibility under my schedule that I thought I'd be able to actually do both because there's a lot of options online to be able to teach courses that way. So your income could go up substantially then? Certainly. At that point. I would expect it to go up at least 100. All right.

We have never told in the 30 years plus we've been on the air, told someone to not have a baby because of debt or to not get married because of debt. We have told people to not get married if you can't get aligned on how we feel about life, careers, saving debt, and so forth. And so if I'm her, what scares me more than the debt is that you just now woke up. Yeah. And you were asleep. That scares me more than the debt.

If you told me I've been scratching and clawing at this and beating on it for seven months and I'm getting there and I've already paid off $50,000, I'm very problem aware and the problem's in my mirror. I'd be a lot more comfortable if I'm her and no pre-nup is needed. But a pre-nup's not going to help. In this case, there's not enough differences to do it. So I think when you guys get comfortable with each other's values and where you're going enough to get married, after you get back from the honeymoon, she writes checks and we pay off all your debt.

but your debt should be largely gone by then because it's going to take a little while for you to prove to her that you're awake. As a mom, I plan for everything. I plan the budgets, snacks, lunches, backup, outfits in the car for the unexpected, I mean everything. Because moms handle a million details every day. So don't skip one of the biggest ones. What happens to your family if you're not there tomorrow? You guys, a lot of people put off making a will because it can feel a little scary. But here's what we all need to realize. Planning for the future isn't fear. It's love. And creating a will turned out to be one of the most loving, protective things I could ever do for my family. And Mama Bear Legal Forms makes it so easy. No lawyers, no stress, just an online process that you can finish in about 20 minutes. And now my husband and I both sleep better because we have taken care of the stuff that really matters. And it isn't scary. It's wise. It's what moms do. So if you've been putting off making a will, I totally get it. But don't wait anymore because you're a mom first, which means you're always planning.

So go to mama bearlegalforms.com and use promo code Ramsey to save 20%. Mamabearlegalforms.com code Ramsey. America. We're glad you're here. Gene is in Savannah, Georgia. Hi, Gene. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than we deserve. How can we help? Okay. So this is a little bit of a crazy story, but I'll try to make it as easy to follow. Ten years ago, my father-in-law passed away. He didn't have a role, but we were able to sell his property with an affidavit of airship and a deed without warranty. So we sold the house to an old family friend.

This married couple in the last 10 years has divorced. The wife moved on. The husband stayed in the house. He passed away early last year. Friday night, we all started receiving so much that this property was about to be foreclosed on for unpaid property. taxes, and we all wondered what that had to do with us. Well, they never filed the deed. So the house is still technically under my father-in-law's name. So we've tracked down the

ex-wife. She doesn't want anything to do with the property. She's happy to sign the property over to my husband and my sister-in-law, the only two kids of my father-in-law. And same thing with my mother-in-law, they were divorced. She doesn't want anything to do with the house. So everybody's on board that it just goes to my husband and my sister-in-law. So we are planning on selling the property and splitting the proceeds. But where the issue comes in is when they were in high school, they had a friend who liked to hang out at their house more than his own house.

So they started calling him brother. well 20 years ago my husband went into the Marine Corps we lent him money he never paid us back and he cut us off because he didn't pay us back so he cut us off my husband was deploying he was trying to reach out to him he would never answer his calls so we haven't had any relationship with him until 10 years ago when my father-in-law died and then he my sister-in-law my mother-in-law decided that he would get a cut of the house when we sold it because he's a quote-unquote brother. Well, we still haven't talked to him in 10 years.

Did he get a cut the first time it sold? Yes, he did. Okay. So they split it four ways. Okay. So now, everything legally is just in my husband and my sister-in-law's names because they're the same kids. so everyone's on board we're selling it um it's gone up in value three and a half times because it's in Dallas County um so it's worth anywhere from 75 to $100,000 now just for the land um so my

sister-in-law is thinking we're going to split this three ways no we're not with the quote unquote brother no we're not and that's how my yeah that's how my husband feels Yeah. No, we're not. I don't know when we have this conversation with her. We don't. Your husband does. It's his sister, not yours. Right. He sits down with her and says, I'm not doing this. He stiffed me. He's not a brother. He's not in this deal. He already got more than he deserved with the first round. No, I'm not splitting with him. And if you don't like that, kiss my butt. I am not splitting with him. And I know you're right, and I knew you were going to say that.

And that's what everyone else has said. I think I'm the one handling everything. Like I said, my husband is a memory. No, you're not handling this. He's handling his sister, not you. Oh, yeah, I know. I mean, just with the paperwork side and finding out what they needed to do. And then she's just saying, you're so great.

You're so wonderful. I'm so blessed by you. And so it's just eating me up knowing. It doesn't need to eat you up. You haven't done anything. There's nothing to eat up. this is an unreasonable crazy but request and we're not doing it it's ridiculous it was ridiculous it was done the first time and what's really ridiculous is that y'all are

ending up with this property again and would you for god's sakes have a lawyer close the deal this time so that it's done right y'all people you people suck at business don't you i mean this is horrible we have we had a lawyer no if you're if you had a lawyer he should be in jail for from malpractice, how do you do, how do you, years later, discover a deed is not recorded? Come on. I agree. Yeah, this is crazy. So we have to do this properly this time.

I don't want to ever see this piece of property again. It needs to go away because your name or your husband's name is in the paper right now for unpaid property taxes. Correct. Yeah. How in the world? that's the most i've done thousands of real estate transactions i've never heard one that was this bad this sucks yeah you guys really i mean how and you and the irony is you end up back with it

and i'm not sure how many different signatures you've got to get from god who has equity of title and this is georgia yeah you need a really good lawyer and you need somebody that's ready to write title insurance on this process this time so that we are are ensuring that this title is properly transferred. Y'all are, but honey, you don't, your husband just to sit down his sister and says, no, I'm not, you know, boy child, you got all he's going to get. It's like Eddie Haskell gone awry. There's a whole generation of people have no idea what I'm talking about.

Look that up. But the fact that he got money the first time around to me is absolutely ludicrous, just because he enjoyed spending time over there and they felt bad for this guy. There's a backstory that we're not aware of. We didn't have time to get to. I'm guaranteeing it. But at this point, her husband has got to say. I was expecting you to say that you did the DNA and ancestry and found out he was actually a brother.

Right. But this is just, this is like some guy who just hung around like a bad penny. Yeah. I got a feeling, I got a feeling mama knows something she ain't saying, but I may be wrong. Yeah. Oh, this is just wicked strange. This could be like a lifetime mini series. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it's not on Hallmark. I can tell you that. Right. That's the truth. Oh, cray, cray. Wow. So, yeah, moral of the story is bad deals have a high rate of resurrection.

They do. When you do something that's a bad idea, it does not go away. Yeah. It comes back again. It's like a bad penny, so to speak. All right. I have a follow-up question because I think this affects a lot of people. Not this situation, but I think the fear of confrontation, Dave, is what's underneath this whole deal.

besides all the bad business. And you and I, it's very clear for us. It's very black and white. We know exactly what we would say, but we, you know, we eat confrontation for breakfast. How would you coach somebody like this husband? He's sitting here and he's not getting it. He's terrified to have this conversation with his sister to disappoint the friend who's been gone for a decade. What would you say to somebody who has a really hard time stepping into this confrontation?

How would you coach them? That's a great question. You know, when I first started our business, I thought as a Southern Christian guy that I was supposed to be nice to everybody. And how that ended up translating was, is I was nice to people when I shouldn't have been. And so I didn't tell them the truth. You know, like you're not doing your job well. And so I'm frustrated. The poor guy doesn't even know he's not doing his job well.

And so we changed it around here to be unclear. is to be unkind. If you work for Ramsey, we're going to be real clear with you. We're not going to be mean. We're not going to cuss and yell and scream and throw stuff at you. But if something's going on, we're going to tell you to be unclear is ultimately to be unkind because there's a whole bottled up resentment at mom and sister for the first time Goober got money.

And so you've been unkind to everybody else in the family by not standing up and being clear that this is wrong. Yeah. And so when you stand on principle and you tell the truth, kindly, gently, forcefully, boldly, there's a cleanliness to it. And the way you people have been conflict avoiding has created a tangled barrel of fish hooks. And you don't want to live in a barrel of fish hooks. You want to live in a clean land, a land of cleanliness.

And conflict, positive, good conflict, will bring. that for you. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I have awesome friends. I got a great faith and I have an amazing wife and family. I've also got two PhDs worth of information about how to be well. And yet, the times that I've spent with great therapists over the years have made all the difference for me. The right therapist can change everything about your mental, emotional, and relational health.

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Start every dollar for free today. You can get it in the app store or at Google Play. Elizabeth is in Virginia Beach. Hi, Elizabeth. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. How are you guys?

Thank you, Dave and Ken, for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So for a little background, I'm currently a stay-at-home mom. I work a couple times a month, and my husband's in the military. We currently have our mortgage and a car loan. The car loan is $12,000. and the interest rate on that is 1.6.

We have a $12,000 emergency fund and after listening to your show pretty religiously over the last only few weeks, but we thought perhaps we should be taking that $11,000 from our emergency fund to pay off our car. However, with the current current shutdown, we are just wondering if we should maybe put a pause on that route until we're absolutely

sure he's going to get paid. Well, he's going to get paid, and he'll get paid all the way through. It's just a matter of when. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So when they reopen, they'll cover all the back pay. They're not going to skip a check. But right now, you're not getting anything, correct?

Yeah, we just have, I'm working a couple times a month, so we still have a little bit coming in, but we just wanted to, we don't want to drain our emergency funds. No, you're not working the baby steps right now. You're in the middle of a storm. You push paws on everything and pile cash up and eat and keep the lights on and don't buy anything. Okay. And just hold on until the storm goes about. Now, when the storm goes by, you push play, which that day you would take all but a thousand out of your emergency fund to apply it to the car and start working your baby steps, right?

Okay. But only after he starts getting his pay. Yeah, we were thinking like before the. shutdown happened we were thinking like should we do the 11,000 and pay it off or should we just throw like you know extra payments from no you should pay it off budgeting okay but not right now not until he gets paid but once he's getting paid you need to work the baby steps the way we talk about okay they're not going to shut it down again for a while once they open it up so you're going to be okay okay I love to hear it well I mean they can't it's not how it works so they're not going to kick

the can down the road for four days it's going to be months or years or whatever so okay yeah so yeah but for right now i would push pause anytime folks you're facing a storm you're you know you push pause and you pile cash up to get ready for the storm whatever the storm is and then when the storm subsides it get the other side of the sun comes out push play again you drain all that cash that you've stacked up throw it at your smallest to largest debt in that order and get going again and and get the whole thing moving. Ken, I'm seeing a lot of emails coming into our customer care from government employees who have worked our system for years, and they're smiling. They're saying, I am not affected by not getting a paycheck for a week or two because I have plenty of money and I have no debt.

Yeah, it's true. I mean, this is why you really have an emergency fund here. This is what we'd call a big, big emergency when you have maybe a two week or a month, just for historical context to calm a lot of people, because I know a lot of people look to us for financial advice in the midst of the headlines. And this is right out of the headlines before we came on today in a press conference. Trump did say he threw it out there. Maybe we don't pay back pay. So this has been said by the president, so people start getting real uptight, and I understand,

it's your paycheck. But this is why the three to six months emergency fund is so vitally important. But to give historical context, since 1981, there have been four major government shutdown, the longest one in 2019 for just over a month. So most of the time, this is all political posturing, both parties. I'm not taking a position, so that way nobody needs to get mad. What happens is they're leveraging, and this is a bit of a poker contest as to who gets what in this next continuing resolution bill so hang in there uh historically dave we've

never seen one longer than a month uh we'll see where it goes and that was under the cat under captain bluff who's in the office now i mean he will bluff anything he'll look at a rock and bluff it i never saw anything like it so um that's a great point i mean he's just unbelievable but yeah so you know don't don't play chicken with this guy right he'll run over you so um whether you agree with him or not. I mean, this is the pattern. It's true. He's not a real good negotiator. He's really good at running over things and calling it negotiating. That's exactly right. So hang in there. Don't get too hung up on the headlines. Nah. Both parties need this deal to happen. And they're the ultimate, both sides of the aisle.

They are all about preserving themselves. So once the public gets hot enough or the issue becomes too much of a toxic type thing for their base, then they start to cave in. So I've just seen too many of these. Don't freak out. Just take it for me on this one. Don't freak out. Never. I mean, you know.

Control what you can control is what we've been teaching. Always control the controllables. And when you're facing drama or trauma, facts are your friends. What are the facts? The facts are there's only been a handful of these ever since 1981. And that's a long time. like, what, 50 years now, right? And so the last 50 years, four or five times, and one time under this same president in 2019, it stayed down for an entire month, which is, that was

unprecedented at the time. And the sad thing about this is, Dave, is it affects our good men and women in the military. Like her. A lot of great federal employees. You hate it for our federal employees. But I challenge any of you over the next week to find something. that has negatively affected your life. If you're not in that camp, because I'm not minimizing it, but those of us who don't draw a paycheck from the federal government, it's hard to find evidence that it's been shut down. Yeah, yeah, true, true.

Craig's in San Antonio. Hi, Craig, how are you? I'm doing great. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Well, I have two inherited retirement accounts. I've had them for about two years now.

All my research and discussions with the financial institutions that they're with show that I have to withdraw the money in 10 years and that it's basically a taxable event every time. And I'm trying to figure out how to minimize the tax hit on this. I was hoping there'd be something easy, like converting it to an IRA of my own or maybe putting it in my daughter's 529. But as far as I can tell, it's just all taxable the whole way. you have gotten correct information sir okay the only thing that could have been done is if it was converted to a Roth before the person died right it's a traditional and it's a traditional that's why you're under the Biden Secure Act passed under Joe Biden and the Secure Act calls for it to be liquidated within 10 years and so I mean you could take out a 10th a year and maybe not have a tax back bracket creep um what's it invested in it's about Two-thirds in a growth fund, stocks, and the rest of it is in a bond fund, and then an S&P 500 fund. How much is in there? About $5.50.

Okay. It's a lot. Well, it's a blessing to get that. It's sad. It's all taxable, but it is. And so who left it to you, your dad or mom or somebody? My father, yes. So you're really not paying your taxes.

you're paying the taxes that he had never paid yet. Right. That's all it is. So that money's never been taxed because it was put in pre-tax and it's grown without tax on it until you withdraw it. And you get the benefit of withdrawing it. So what I would do is run some numbers with your SmartVestor Pro. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and click on SmartVestor and find a SmartVestor pro in your area. Sit down and go, okay, I want to get this into good mutual funds and I want to withdraw a system.

Do I need to do it over 10 years? or can I just do it all at once and get it over with? How much is it? What's the difference if I do that? It's probably not a lot, but it is all ordinary income. So it'll just spend on the bracket creep. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time, a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly, everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential, because it protects your family if the word. happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If

it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price, no pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

Our question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi. If other lenders won't help with defaulted private student loans, Y-ReFi might be right for you. They offer fixed-rate solutions that fit real life. Find out more at Y-refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. not available in all states. Today's question comes from Tanner in South Carolina.

My wife of seven years and I disagree on how my business should be run. I own a photography and videography company that I've had for 10 years. I've built this business from the ground up, and it's my baby. My wife believes that it's our business now that we are married and that she should be able to make decisions on whether I can book a certain job or not or how I communicate with my customer. She's also having an opinion on how much I charge my customers and how I process the final product.

I'm glad to work with her on a number of jobs that I book, which impacts our time together. But I draw the line on how I run my business day to day. Am I wrong for wanting to run the business I built my way? I'm sorry, I had to get through that without laughing. No, you're not wrong. It was very hard for me to get through that, Dave. No, you're not wrong, wanting to run the business you've built.

Now, obviously, you're why. She has an opinion. I think she's entitled to her opinion. But that doesn't mean that her opinion should sway the way you run the business if you guys didn't enter into this business together. Again, a say on your personal finances and all that 100%. But in this situation, I don't know why I'm laughing. I feel bad for you. This is a tough situation.

That sounds like she's a handful. Yeah, this is tricky. Really tricky. Now, here's how you can parse it out. This will help you. There's a lot of really good data and academic teaching on small business. One of the fathers or grandfathers of that space is a guy named John Ward who wrote a little book called Family Business. In the little book, he has a Venn diagram with three circles, owner, family, and worker or team member.

And they overlap the three circles of Venn diagram. A classic Venn diagram, right? And so someone can be an owner, someone can be a family member, someone can be a team member, and someone can be all three or two of those things. You are all three. She is not. She's one of the owners, and she's a family member, but she is not a team member. Okay.

Now, here's how that works. In other words, she speaks into the business. as a spouse because she doesn't work there, which is not operational control. Now, if you're a wise man from a standpoint of running a business and from a standpoint of being married,

you will listen to her counsel and sometimes take it. Proverbs 31 says, who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above rubies, the heart of her husband safely trusts, her, and he will have no lack of gain. Sharon Ramsey has some opinions about things that we do at Ramsey, but she does not

tell us where to order copier paper, and she does not develop marketing strategy, and she does not enter her discussion into pricing unless I ask her about pricing on, oh, we're getting ready to take the price up on these books because everybody else has. Oh, yeah, well, we probably ought to do that. But that's my wife speaking into my business. It is not a member of the team that is down here working every day, speaking into the operations. She has gotten confused. She has taken more ground than she has been given.

Okay. So unless she comes down there and gets on the payroll and becomes the CEO or the C-O-O or something else, At that point, she would be all three things, and she would be rightly speaking into the day-to-day operations of the business. But otherwise, she's just your spouse talking to her spouse and saying, hey, if I were you, here's how I would do it. And I think this is wise. But I think she's gotten confused about her place on this.

And it's not a woman's place. It's a man's place. Either one, it could be, rolls could be reversed. You should talk to your husband, ladies, if you're running a business and get their input on some things, but they don't need to come down there and talk about which customers we take or so forth unless you ask them. I mean, if I'm having a customer that's high maintenance or kind of got a, you know, problem or something, I may discuss that with my wife, and she may go, well, I wouldn't put up with that crap. And I go, you know what, that's kind of what I was thinking.

I'm not going to put up with it either, okay? And, but that's different than you're an idiot for running the business the way you've run it for 10 years, and I'm going to come in here and show you how to do it, although I don't actually work there, and I really don't even know what the flip I'm talking about, which is the way this chick sounds. Yeah. Out of control. I wish I knew more. I wish there was a phone call.

What I would be attempting to do is find an area where she's super excited in the business and give her more input there, maybe some, a little bit more control there, as long as it's not affecting the day to day. No, I wouldn't. I disagree. I know you wouldn't. I'm saying I try to find it. I didn't say it absolutely have to find it.

input as my spouse and I want to trust the input of my virtuous wife. Therefore, I will have no lack of gain. But part of being virtuous is not acting this way. Right. But she's given input on everything. I know. He laid out the entire business she's given input on. Yeah, exactly. I mean, product design, pricing, which customers to take, what's scheduled to run, that's ops control. That's a COO. That's not spousal control. And unless you work there, you shouldn't be speaking into that. Yeah. And you shouldn't assume that you're speaking in it.

I think a marriage therapist might be an order on this one. Oh, yeah, I think. Yeah. I think you're probably right about that. We won't disagree on that one. Yeah. If you're a business owner or a leader and you've got a question about running a business, including family business.

As you can tell, I've got lots of opinions, and I'm right. You can join us on the Entry Leadership podcast that I do where I take calls from small business people about business questions. 844-9-4-4-4-4-4. 1070 or go to Entreeleadership.com slash ask and fill out the form. We'll call and make you a caller on the Entree podcast. By the way, that particular question, if that were a real call with both of them with you, that'd be absolute YouTube gold. It would melt the internet. Well, I've done plenty of them with family business. I can tell you. Had some really interesting ones over the years. Jared

is in New York City. Hi, Jared. How are you? Hey, how's it going? Better than I deserve. what's up so thanks for taking my call um so uh some last couple weeks have been a little bit of a little bit of a whirlwind so my wife is pregnant early on in pregnancy so super excited about that 14 weeks along where where it's been a bit of a whirlwind is um they found something that um as long as more tests to come but you know god willing everything else is okay um it's something that when the baby's born may need some surgery now is expected to need some surgery.

Now, nothing more than routine, again, as long as everything else is okay. So, you know, I am grappling with that, of course, on the mental side of things. But, you know, yeah, so my wife and I are, though, currently going through Baby Step 2. So there's a financial question on how to plan, you know, I was thinking like setting up a sinking fund for kind of approximations of what it could potentially be. while still paying off debt, you know, just kind of not sure even where to start. We tell folks when they're having a baby to push paws and don't work on the baby steps and pile up cash.

And when baby and mama come home, we pay the bills and what's left, we push play again and apply it to your debt snowball. So I'm going to just stop right now and just pile how big a pile of cash can you make? You can't make it one too big because you're going to put it all on debt if you don't use it on the baby.

right in just a few i mean and and now about seven months right about yeah a little less yeah and so six months whatever i mean so yeah for six months we're going to pile cash baby and mama come home we pay whatever bills the insurance does not pay because you got copay and you got deductibles to me right and then whatever's left after the baby and mommy are home safe and sound and um then you're ready to go and you just push play again again and you apply it right down through there and takes your breath away can oh you'll make it kids are expensive just deal with it but you'll make it yeah promise just like man nothing scares you more than a baby it's the truth you're you know you're

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for you at health trustfinancial.com. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show and the Fair Winds Credit Union's. studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, best-selling author, and host a front-row seat, a big hit on Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today. Liz is in Nashville. Hi, Liz. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up? I'm just calling because with me and my husband combined, we have a debt of $562,000. That includes our mortgage, but besides the mortgage, most of that,

that is his. We're following your baby stuff, and we've been following it all year. But it doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere. And if anything, right now, we're back at the same amount that we had at the beginning of the year. I just don't know what to do. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm sorry.

How could you get back into dad when you're getting out of dad? I'm confused. Exactly. Yeah. Well, we've had situations with our cars come up. And then he loves to use his credit cards for anything that comes up. Okay, so we're going into credit card debt while we're trying to get out of debt. So he's not really trying to get out of debt.

He's running business as usual, and you're trying to get out of debt. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I have $11,000 of that that is mine. But even myself right now, I can't seem to get out of it. And I'm physically... So you said $560,000. $62,000. How much of that is mortgage? $500,000 is mortgage.

Okay. What's the $62,000? So $11,000 is mine. No, there's not a mine. You're married. The $11,000 on what? It's basically just credit cards. Okay, so you have $11,000 on credit cards. What else is out there out of the $62? It's all credit cards.

You have $1,000 in credit card, dad. Yes. I'm sorry. you don't have a car payment that's true i just one car payment we have a we have one thousand dollars left on it okay you owe one thousand dollars on a car and what do you owe on your student loans we have no student loans i paid off my okay so you basically have sixty two thousand dollars in credit card sixty one thousand dollars in credit card debt and what's your household income uh i make 82 and he makes 80 okay

So $162,000 with a $500,000 mortgage. And how long ago were you zero credit cards debt? Well, I was at zero credit cards last year. He's always had credit cards. How long have you been married? We've been married for five years now. Okay. So when you're married, it's all ours.

Mm-hmm. You understand me? Okay. So you were never at zero because he's always had credit cards because we have had credit cards because you are married to Mr. Credit Card. Yes. Okay. So you've been married five years and we have always had credit card debt. How much credit card debt did he come into the marriage with?

I think at that point it was around maybe $70,000. So it's maintained for about the last five. years about the same yes okay so in his past he overspent which is what the credit card came from but we're just gonna okay so how old are you guys he's 41 and I'm 30 okay all right well I this is not a a systems problem this is a person problem it's a behavior problem okay so your system of getting out of debt is not going to work until both of you decide you're going to get out of debt he has not decided that and so you got you you know you have a marriage

issue to sit down and talk to your husband and say i want to get on the same page i want us to get out of debt and you can't tell me you want to get out of debt unless you put all the credit cards on the table and cut them up right now yeah we actually did that this weekend uh two quick questions. Give me quick answers here. How long have you been trying to do the baby steps? Since the beginning of this year. Okay. And then do you guys have separate finances? I'm guessing you do the way you're talking. Yeah. Yes, we do. And then one other one, I forgot. Does he use the credit card as just all of his expenses and he's under the guys, I'm going to pay it off at the end of the month, but he never does? Is that what's going on? He's running everything through it?

He was. Yeah. Not anymore. Okay. Why did he agree to cut him all up last weekend? I think it's because, you know, he's 41 and I'm just, I'm disappointed. I mean, I just, I can't take it anymore, you know. I have never had debt, and I've even wrecked up 11,000.

Okay. Wait a minute. Stop a minute. Okay. I get all that, but he cut up the credit cards last weekend, and then, then you call me and said he keeps going into credit card debt. But it sounds like this guy turned the corner last weekend and said, I'm getting out of debt. I cut them all up.

I'm confused about what you're upset about. I guess because I didn't, I thought the number was lower than what it is. So that's what you knew that last weekend. Yeah, but I'm at a point where I don't know what to do. I can't pay off what we, what we owe. I just don't see. Yes, you can. You make $162,000. You only need $62,000 to pay all this off. So you live on $100 and you are debt free in one year. Walla. It's fairly easy. It's $5,000 a month and you are debt free in one year. The two of you sit down and do a budget together, combine your stinking finances and get on the same page and go, we're going to put $5,000 a month on this debt because you cut up the credit cards and I'm over this. I can't sleep. I'm terrified. I'm done with all this irresponsibility. And you are too. Thank you for cutting up the credit cards. Let's get on this and lock arms and let's attack this thing and be done.

That's how you do it. Yeah. You make enough money to pay this off in one year. Easy. That's right. If you can't live on $100,000 in Nashville, something's wrong with you. Well, I've tried. I've tried it, and it just doesn't add up with daycare with everything.

It just doesn't add up. What's your house payment? No, I know what your house payment is. Yes, you have not done a budget. because the math you're giving me is just not factual, okay? You can pay daycare and eat and pay your house payment out of $100,000. That's $8,000 a month. Quit your 401K if you're getting a refund, reset your W-2s and quit getting a tax refund,

cash out whatever money you've got in savings, chop up the credit cards, and attack this. so there's something your hopelessness is not logical unless you believe he's really not going to stop in which case you need to go see a marriage counselor but if he is if he's acting like I'm talking about and he goes yeah we're going to live on beans and rice rice and beans we're going to stop the 401ks

we're not going on any vacations we're going to sell so much stuff the kids are afraid they're next we're getting extra jobs we're going to live on a written budget. The two of us are agreeing together. I just cut up the credit cards. Boom. $5,000 a month goes on this. That's $60,000 a year. That leaves me $100,000 to live on. Shut up and do it. That's what it takes. Right there. You just got to go do this now. But you can't live in the past and be going, well, I get back to any. I don't care. What while we call it matters is the next 12 months game on, baby. Super Bowl. Put the ball in the end zone.

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We're excited for you to try it. So check them out today at Fair Winds. dot org slash ramsay that's fair wins dot org slash ramsay insured by the nc ua nicol is in new york how nicol how are you good how are you better than i deserve what's up my fiance and i are trying to plan our honeymoon and we're trying to figure out how much money we think is appropriate to spend looking for guidance. When are you getting married? Next August. Awesome. Good for you. Yeah. Very great. So where are you wanting to go?

So we're looking to go to Italy for around 10 or 11 days. Wow. Very nice. So what's the budget on that? What's that going to cost? It's looking like around 25,000, but we are open to adjusting things. Oh, wow. Depending on what you say. Oh, wow. A lot of pressure, Dave. Yeah.

This is the honeymoon now. It's a honeymoon and it's Italy. There's a lot of good stuff happening here. Yeah. And my mouth's kind of watering right now, actually, I'm just saying. But all right, so I assume you're going to have $25,000 in cash to do this with. You're not going in debt. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And what do you make and what does he make a year? I make around $200, and he makes around $300,000 here. Okay. Okay. Sounds like you can afford it. Yeah. Enjoy yourself, kids. Really? Wow. I mean, is there, like, do you have like $10 million in debt or something? We've no debt. No dad. Yeah. How old are you two high income earners? 29. Wow. You're killing it. Is there something information you're holding back from us? Because so far, you're checking all the bucks. You must be. Wow. So, I mean, you, I mean, you kind of know if you make a half million dollars a year and you're 29 years old that you can do 25K. You already knew that, right?

Well, you never know, but yes. It just seems like sticker shock that you would spend that much. Is that what you're experiencing? It seems like a lot of sticker shock. That's a lot of money. Why don't you pay attention to what you're doing with that $25,000? Because that's a pretty nice honeymoon. It's not like you're staying at that.

the Red Roof Inn in Italy. All right. Wow. I mean, this is a nice experience, yes? You got, you got, okay. Yeah, she's going to be awesome. All right, then. I mean, savor this.

This is your honeymoon. You're right. You're right. So here's how. This is what we need. Here's how Sharon and I know we're overspending. We look at two things. One is what percentage of our world is this amount of money, meaning our net worth, our

income, okay? And this is a small percentage of your income. Yeah. If you took $25,000 and threw it out the window and watch the people on the street below run around like crazy, it would not ruin your life. Yeah. And so spending it on something much more fun than that, it was not going to ruin your life. So if you told me you make $50,000 a year and you're going to spend $25, now we're going to have a long discussion about how dumb that is. Right?

even though it's a wonderful trip you can't afford it and it doesn't make sense you know but you have another zero on that decimal so you're in good shape um the second thing we measure against um is we're always if we give pause this gave you pause it made you stop and think it was like a speed bump it slowed you down anytime that happens i that means i need to slow down and check my generosity factor am i is my generosity still really high yeah and am i doing a good job with helping others with the money God has blessed me with. And if so, then this is a very minor amount of money and you pass both of those tests. You should go to Italy. I'll give you another possibility. They haven't been making this kind of money that long. It's new to them. And so it

takes a little while to build the emotional muscle to spend more money on something. She said that they're both very frugal. And I'm looking at Rachel's book over there, know yourself, know your money. you brilliantly lays out money styles and what affects that. So without doing too much digging, we know that they come from a background where maybe they didn't come from a lot of money and they've been successful. Maybe there's some scarcity going on, but all good reasons in this case because they're very, very frugal and they're going, hey, is this crazy? Yeah, but it, you know, what it also underscores is a, an emotional maturity because

there's zero entitlement. Correct. We did not have Brodzilla on the phone going, I'm going to go to Italy. It was none of that, right? There was none of that Brodzilla stuff. This is more like, I've dreamed of this my whole life. Oh, well, shut up, Barbie, you know, seriously. How about you have the money before being and be a grownup?

But this lady here, she's an incredible grownup. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's no entitlement, none of that. It was the opposite of that. Yeah. Very concerned and thoughtful and careful and wise and all of that. Very well done, kiddo. proud of you enjoy it tim is in new york hi tim how are you hey dave good how are you better than

i deserve how can i help so um i have a question my brother and i own a home together we have a very good interest rate um and we have a very cheap mortgage i'm going to be looking to move out and buy another home with my girlfriend sometime next year don't do that basically wondering okay no please don't buy a house with somebody you're not please don't buy a house with somebody you're not married too. Okay. You're going to get yourself up a creek, bud. Seriously. If you want to buy a house with her, you need to marry her first. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, because here's the thing. Something happens. You're now in partnership with her mother. Sure. Yeah. Or she just decides she's going to take off and you can't find her and you get to pay the payments and you can't sell it because you can't find

your partner. And in this case, it is a literal partner, not a relational partner. So, yeah, no, please, don't, don't, don't buy a house with, now if you want to buy a house and she lives with you, that's a, that's your decision on how you have a roommate. But, um, but, yeah, but, but the legal and financial entanglements, when people shack up and start buying stuff together and sharing too much stuff, you really get all twisted up and it's very, very, very difficult to undo. It's difficult to know. It's difficult to when you use divorce to do it. But, man, we've taken some wicked, ugly situations on this show of people who bought a house or bought a car with their shacked up boyfriend or girlfriend, and then they can't find

them or they die. And now I'm partners with my, well, she's not my mother-in-law because she never was in-law. But I don't know who this chick is. It's my girlfriend's mother. Oh, my God. This is a really nightmare scenario. And we run into that kind of stuff all time, Tim. And it's just, we see all the times it didn't work, which is like most of the time.

Yeah. You just don't want to end up in a real-life Jerry Springer episode, you know. Nobody's going to bail you out. That makes for great TV. It's not fun to live through. Entertaining call on the Ramsey show, but you don't want to be one of those. You don't. You want to be one of the wise people who said, no, I'm not going to do that.

And we're getting those calls, I feel like consistently over the last six months where they're not married and they're trying to untangle it. It's a nightmare. And it's, and well, I mean, you can't. they find them or they don't they don't talk to you or and you know what how do you get out of this how do you have to sue in court to disband a general partnership with no partnership documents and it's very very expensive yeah to get the circuit court to give you relief and force the sale of this and force the other party to come in and sign the deed oh my gosh it's a mess and by the way I'll tee you up on this one too because I'm seeing this is happening or seeing

data where more and more young people, because they're reading too many headlines, too many TikToks, that they'll never be able to afford a home. Now we're talking platonic relationships. Three or four women or three or four dudes will go in and buy a house, split it three ways, and think that they're getting ahead. And that's just, that's as goofy as I've ever seen. And that's happening on a regular basis now. Yeah, anything with two to four heads is a monster. Yeah, this is a bad plan. Any ship that won't. sales of partnership. So all of these things come into play, right? So no, we don't do that. You buy houses with people you're married to. That's it. In your case, you did it with your

brother. You're all probably going to get out of that one alive. It sounds like Tim. So that's good. But yeah, I would not purchase. I would rent if you're going to live together. And I don't recommend doing either of those. But if you're going to do it from a financial and legal entanglement standpoint, and then after you're married, decide what to buy. And so let's keep these things in the right order, the right forced ranking. If you ever Googled yourself, here's the two worst things you can find, photo evidence of your worst haircut, and your personal data floating around on some sketchy website. mean, the bangs were regrettable, but your info being bought, sold, and reposted all over the

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me right now ramsie listeners get 20% off at join delete me dot com slash ramsie with code ramsie at checkout so do that today join delete me dot com slash ramsie code ramsay In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Matthew and Ann are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good, and you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you all live?

We're actually from Knoxville, Tennessee. Very cool. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? We paid off $350,000. Wow. And how long did that take? It took us eight years.

Good for you. And your range of income during that to eight years? We went from about $52,000 to about $92,000. Very good. What do y'all do for a living? So I started out as a teacher for about 13 years and moved into construction. And I just went back to teaching fourth grade. Oh, fun.

Good for you. Well done, you guys. So 350 over eight years, I'm guessing you guys paid off your house. Yes, sir. Look at some weirdos. Way to go. No house payment. Wow. What's the house worth? I think it's about 420 or 450. Very good. And how much of you guys built in your retirement nests? We have about 200,000, I believe.

Awesome. So on your way to Baby Steps Millionaires and you're not that old, how are you? How old are you? We're actually both 35 years old. Oh, wow. Wow. So you're going to be millionaires by the time you're 40 and have a paid for house by the time you're 35. Y'all are weird. Yes. I love it. I'm so proud of you. way to go guys way to go all right so you got to tell us you know what made you decide to take on the debt plus get rid of the house a lot of it was when we got married we went to a financial peace university with our church and after that we were just determined we need to pay off our house as soon as we can very cool what church do you go to we're at calvary knoxville now yeah good originally from california but now here in tennessee okay so you got married in california yes sir okay so that

What church was that that you took the class? We took that. It was Clovis E.V. Free. Ah, okay. Cool. Very cool. Well, way to go, guys. I love it.

So how long have you been married? We've been married for seven years. No. Eight years. Eight years. Okay. So from the time you got married, you were just game on. It was for sure.

I mean, for her, it was just having that peace of mind. And for me, I got to kind of start nerding out on spreadsheets. I like it. I like it. Way to go. Very cool. What was the hardest part of? this journey for you guys. Was there a struggle and how did you get through it?

Honestly, I think for us, we've always had that goal of, okay, the house is going to come. And so we were just blessed moving across the state that, or not say across the country, and just kind of the focus was the house. I mean, I think the first time never really got bonus as a teacher. So when the bonus came from the new work that I'm out, I was like, oh, I can go buy something. Instead, it's like, okay, no, we've got to keep the goal in mind. And instead, just pay off the house. And then from there, we can actually have a lot more fun. Yeah, yeah, because you can do anything. want now. Yep. I mean, you're sitting here making 92 grand and killing it and no payments in the world.

How's it feel to not have a house payment? I don't know if it's fully hit yet. I mean, we paid it off last month. And so the first item of the budget item is with every dollar. It still says that mortgage on there. So I'm just excited to delete that line. And then from there, just kind of see how what we were paying for the house is actually going stuff like to our kids colleges or just even having a little bit more fun. Yeah, absolutely. So what's the first big thing you're going to do to celebrate? First big thing is upgrading my wife's car it's a little old and she needs to be driving style good good good good plan good plan so what are you going to buy her what is she got what are you guys going to buy her she's not you buy her but yeah sorry she wants a toyota um round four oh perfect okay that'll be great

and what's the what's the hoopty you're getting rid of the old one uh 2010 toyota camry it only has about 170 000 oh we we have squeezed the juice out of that puppy well for a camera that's only a third of its life it's got a lot more left the thing you can't get rid of them no they just keep going and going and going way to go you guys i'm so proud of you who was bragging on who was cheering you on oh fans families we actually have some friends here that it got to because they're in the national area got to come out and just celebrate with us today oh that's fun very good anybody tell you you were crazy while you were doing this oh i hear it all the time because we actually paid we had to pay off we had to buy another car from me to get around

town and when we told everybody we paid for cash they're like why i mean just can buy what do you want and i'll go buy something nicer and it's like no this gets me what i need to do and we had our goals and we wanted just to kind of continue to live free now and the goal is i don't have a stinking payment hello yeah man that's sweet sweet you can do anything you want to do man i'm proud of y'all you're going to have so much money it's going to be ridiculous you're are you the first ones in your families to be that be like this i don't know for sure i think i mean my parents and her parents are, but I don't know compared to the siblings that I don't necessarily for sure know. I know credit cards were probably weird in that sense, that we don't have credit cards.

Right. Okay, cool, cool. One of the things I want to ask, because I've coached a lot of teachers over the years who wanted to get out and they didn't think they could because they hadn't done anything else. Just real briefly, I think it would be helpful to some people. How did you make the transition from teaching to construction? I think, honestly, it's your proximity process. I mean, I felt, I mean, teaching is definitely a calling,

and I felt for a long time that that calling was teaching until I was like, okay, God laid something on my heart, and I just had a buddy of mine and say, hey, this fits what you're looking for, this is just kind of the criteria because I'm a math teacher, and a lot of what I do now is data analysis and said, hey, take a look at this, and we just trusted God and made the leap.

Wow, so the transferable skill here was math teacher, move over into analytics and the data side of construction. Correct. Good for you. It's kind of nice, not. to be just teaching the same thing over every day, every year. So it makes it even more fun. Yeah, absolutely.

Good for you. Absolutely. And you brought the kiddos to celebrate with you? Yes. We did. All right, bring them up. Let's see their names and ages. We have Ms. Nola Bell. She's six.

All right. She's beautiful. And then Nash, it was just three. All right. Big Nash. Here we go. Those babies don't even understand how much their parents will completely change their family tree.

You guys are incredible. We're so proud of you. Very, very well done. All right, Matthew and Ann, Nola and Nash, Knoxville, Tennessee, $350,000 paid off in eight years, making 52 to 92. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Ready, three, two, one, we're debt-free! Yeah!

I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. Well, done, you guys. Very well done. Well, Ken, we do know from the largest study of millionaires ever done by Remsey Research that's in the white papers in the back of the Baby Steps Millionaire's best-selling book that the number one career choice of millionaires is engineer. Number two is accountant. Number three is teacher. yes and um so and we hear all the time from people that don't believe that but you know when you use data we don't care if you believe it or not i mean if you don't believe in law of gravity try jumping off a building you'll find the sidewalk i mean facts are facts and that's a fact and uh what we've discovered is is that teachers are process driven particularly a math teacher that does data analysis are process driven and they were both dialed in and for eight

years they've made the steps and walked carefully and paid off the house and had a life while they were paying off their house. Exactly right. The American Dream is alive and well, young couples. Listen, watch the story. They started on it the minute they got married. So they didn't accumulate other debt. They just came right into this thing and they said, we're going to do this.

And they walked it out. Now they're very young. And man, you want to talk about prosperity. It really is now in their future. And this is doable. Mr. Spreadsheet over here has already run the numbers. So all his compound interest is going to be. He's already sitting on six or seven hundred thousand net worth at 35.

And so that puts him in the tens of millions in his retirement years in net worth. And so he's going to be in such, they're going to be in such great shape. They've done such a good job. And, you know, Mama's over driving a hoopty Camry. Yeah. And we've got to get her upgraded to a better Toyota there. And so very good. Yeah.

Very good. But worth every second of the sacrifices, they just step. as she goes, and they were just monotonous about it. And now they're going to live like nobody else. And that's how this works. So really fun. If every young couple would take this model, Dave, instead of getting like more and more debt and trying to keep up with everybody else and live the life their parents lived, this is the way. Yeah. You need to take Instagram and put a bullet in it. It's difficult to keep up with other people's highlight reels. Yeah. If you're trying to keep up with other people, you're not going to win. Yeah, it's pretty simple.

Ann is with us with us in. Minneapolis. Hi, Ann. How are you? Better than I deserve. How are you? Just the same. How can I help? So my husband and I have been married eight years, and we just had our first baby in December. We're on baby step four. We have no debt other than our mortgage, and we have a good emergency fund saved up. We both work salaried jobs right now. I make more than my husband in my field, so my salary is 135K with a 20% annual. bonus and significant career growth potential to climb the ladder. But my husband is around 100K, and we've found there's more of a salary ceiling with his CPA career. It's going to be difficult for him to significantly increase salary over the next five years. You said he's a CPA?

He is a CPA, yes. He only makes $100,000? Yeah. And he has a career cap? Why does he have a career cap? He's under market already. he is but that's after job hopping like three jobs in the last five years it's hard to find maybe it's just minnesota but at cpa firms anything more than a hundred k is what we've found

well i i was waiting on you here's what i would say that's because you're looking in a one pool and that's your traditional cpa firms but with his skill set plus his experience as a cpa he has all kinds of upward mobility in the corporate world because of that actual skill set and experience. But if he's locked in on these firms in a certain type of work that he's doing and have a little bit of an idea what you're talking about, then he is cap. Yeah, but the point is, is he's not limited for his growth. We're talking about a lot of C-sweeters in the United States that came through the CPA ranks.

Yeah, yeah. But what's your question? You've kind of given us the financial picture and what you think the professional outlook is. Yeah. So we recognize that we both can't continue to work full-time because our daughter isn't in daycare. And right now, I juggle full-time work remote with her at home, but that won't last forever as she takes less naps and is up more during the day. And I really want to be a present mom. So right now, benefits are the most challenging for us because my husband's work at a small firm has a very expensive health insurance plan with a limited network and I get really good benefits because I'm in the med tech industry so

good insurance is important I have chronic health issues we need to support ongoing care and medications so basically I don't want to work forever and I want to be able to be a stay at home mom but we feel like financially and health insurance wise it may make the most sense for me to work and my husband to go down to part time at least we can until we can get through having another baby and I can get benefits in maternity leave for my second pregnancy. But my fear is that if I continue to work, it's going to turn into more of a long-term thing because my career will continue to grow, and it'll probably never make financial sense for me to stop working because I can just make a lot more money. So we're also

conservative Christians, and there's the factor that the man is supposed to be head of the household, which typically looks like the stereotype of the wife is a full-time stay-at-home mom and the husband's the provider. So how do we balance the need for benefits and the higher financial value with our long-term strategy wanting me to be at home with our kids. And what would you recommend in our situation? You work on his career. Yeah. Because his career path sucks.

Yeah. So what if he's not very motivated? I think he'd be motivated after listening to you. Yeah. I mean, this is ready. I'm ready to go. I think he could go. Yeah.

I mean, you got this dialed in. You know exactly what you want and how to get there. I will tell you, I have taken this call a lot. from ladies, and I've talked to a lot of men who cite motivation is a factor. And I can tell you this, he doesn't lack motivation. He lacks clarity. I don't think this is a lazy guy. No, no, no. He's not. Right. Right. So what you're seeing as it looks like he's not motivated, it presents that way. But what's going on is he doesn't know what his options are. He doesn't see clarity in the future, meaning I'd like to go here and I know how to get there.

In other words, I know what mountain I want to climb and I know what I have to do to learn how to climb it. That's what he's lacking. And I can tell you that if you solve that and help him solve it, then you can do what Dave is saying and he begins to see a path forward because you have to honor this desire to be a stay-at-home mom. You don't have to do it right away, but we've got to clear a path to doing that. You told us what you want. That's it.

You want to be there, but you've got to make it make sense. And the way it makes sense is if he gets in a career path that has good quality insurance because you've got chronic health care and obviously we'll cover maternity for a second baby and those kinds of things. And he has some upward mobility, upward trajectory with his income and a ladder to climb and be about the business of climbing it. So hang on the line. Here's what I want to do.

This is my gift. And, Ann, this will help. I'm going to give him the book, find the way. work you're wired to do it. It has an assessment in it. It's called the get clear career assessment. Have him take it. And it's going to spit out a lot of great, easy to understand information. I won't unpack it here on the call. But that's going to help him with where he can go and how he can get there. He reads the book after he takes the assessment and I'll walk him step by step what to do. That's going to really, really help. I'm also going to give him a copy of my book

The Proximity Principle, which is his next step of homework where he begins to get out there and connect with people in the places that he wants to end up professionally. And if that happens, just like the baby steps, he will find something and you guys will be able to make this plan for your life happen. But it's not by osmosis. It is through intentionality. And it can be done. Yeah. And so he should be in the 250, 300 range soon. Yeah. Yeah. Your analysis is based on the current set of facts and the third option is create a new set of facts yep charity is in Tulsa Oklahoma hi charity how are you good how are you Dave better than I deserve what's up so I my car broke down in traffic yesterday it turns out it

needs about $5,700 worth of work who said and say that again who told you that um the mechanic shop so at the dealership and not at the dealership it was just a mechanic shop that we went to okay what's wrong what's wrong with the car it's um i think they said the rack and pinion the control arm bushing basically a lot of the front end is uh needs a lot of work so a rack and pinion does not collapse in traffic was they did say the steering pump was part of it as well. So it got to a point where I was trying to turn. It got really hard to turn. Okay. That, that, that, your, your power steering went out. Okay. That causes collapse in traffic. And then they found everything else they could find wrong with the car.

There's been wrong with the car for a last year and a half and added it on to the ticket. Correct. Yeah. So bullcrap. So it is about a 10-year-old car. It's completely paid off. off. It had some class action lawsuit things against it. Put a steering pump on it. It's not $5,700. Okay. So that's kind of what I was interested in was just, you know, the car when it's running, it's worth two to three grand. And I mean, we're on baby step three. We already, I mean, we have an emergency fund. Our goal is 20K. We have 13K in our emergency fund so far. What's your household income?

About 105. Okay. As soon as you get your emergency fund done, I want you to start working on saving up for a car and move up in car, because this car is a piece of crap. I agree with you. Yes. But right now, you don't have the money to replace it, do you? Well, let me add that we do have $7,000 in a brokerage non-retirement account. Why is that not in your emergency fund?

Well, that's what we were going to call and ask is, should that be? Should already have been in your emergency fund. Now, if that's in your emergency fund, how much is in the emergency fund? 13K. Okay. And your goal is what? Our goal is 20. We haven't had a lot of margin in our budget just due to plumbing and household maintenance things.

And power steering pumps going out. And, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to move the brokerage into your emergency fund, finish your emergency fund. I'm going to upgrade the car. In the meantime, you've got to fix the power steering pump because you've got to give the thing. operating, but you don't spend $5,700 on a $2,000 car.

That's a mechanic that you don't need to do business with, that even suggested that. That's assonite. Many of you listen to the Ramsey show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt, and build wealth.

And you can too. But you've got to have a game plan, and that begins with our get started assessment. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash start now, take the free quiz, and get your free. free step-by-step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to ramsysolutions.com slash start now. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and host of front row seat, is my co-host today. Open phones at AAA-825-5-225.

Rob is in Los Angeles. Hey, Rob, how are you? I'm doing great, Dave. How are you guys? Better than I deserve. serve. What's up? That's awesome. I am 48 years old, buried with two kids, and unfortunately have been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. I've been fighting the disease for a couple of years now, and through that fight, I exhausted my 401K, and basically my family has been surviving

off of my disability income of $2,800 a month. We don't have any assets. I don't own a house or anything like that. And on Sunday, Dave, I had a miracle happen. I won $100,000 on an NFL fantasy football contest. And I am freaking out and have no idea what to do because I'm sick. So all the traditional steps that one would take to improve their lives,

I just had a lossful words. I'm wondering what you would do. Well, I've never been there, so I'm not positive. What a challenging situation. The, um, I think the first thing, the first thing that popped into my head is, um, don't lose it all trying to replicate it. Okay. You know, don't, in other words, don't, don't put $100,000 back into sports betting. No, I know that.

You probably got your one miracle. I don't think I'd stretch God on this, okay? Yeah. Um, so, yeah, I mean, I, because that temptation's got to be there a little bit like, hey, I'm now, now I've got this. figured out no you don't um like you said you called it a miracle it's luck it's whatever and um it's a provision for your family but don't for god's sakes don't use it to create more betting okay is that fair yes yes absolutely that's the first thing that pops into my mind then i don't know that i mean 100 000 is a lot more than you had and it's a good thing um it's certainly not enough

to sustain a family of three, a wife and two kids, if you're in heaven, right? Correct. So it does help, though. We're not, you know, wonderful. I'm glad you got it. So how do we make that work? You guys have got your household budget currently set up on the disability? You're living on 28?

It's difficult, my wife. Oh, I would imagine. a gig job so she's you know if she brings in a hundred bucks a day we're lucky so she what's her job Peter to pay Paul what's her job what is her job she's like a she delivers groceries a gig app you know like a door dash type thing where is her family and your family um I I just have my dad is the only one left and her family and her family family is all here with us. So she has that support when something does happen to me.

Okay. I've never heard you at a loss for words. Well, I'm trying to think of, I'm going to speak plainly, okay? Can I have permission to do that? Absolutely. What's she going to do for a living to raise two children when you're gone? I've tried to have that conversation with her it never turned out how I like

I don't think she knows and I think she is putting it off and she's afraid if she says it out loud that it's going to happen yes I mean I don't understand we all process this thing differently So, yeah, what I would use the $100,000 for is to cause her to get trained or certified in whatever it is she's going to do to raise these two kids, assuming your doctors are correct. Yeah, there they are. Okay.

You see what I'm saying? So, I mean, if you spent $25,000 and she got a certification in X, Y, or Z, that allowed her to make $70 or $80,000 a year to be a widowed mom of two, that's an incredibly good in use of that money as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, but I don't hear Dave say that she's got to go to college. We're not saying that. We're saying we're going to find something very practical, does not take very long to get qualified.

It does not cost a ton, but it allows her to make a very decent living to be able to take care of her and the kiddos. I'm okay. Let me give you another example. I would include college as a possibility. If it, yes. So like, for instance, has she got a four-year degree? No, and we're 50, so telling her to go back to college, I don't think that she... Okay, I don't want to tell her to do anything. I want her to be able to have enough income to feed her kids and live. That's all I want her to do. Me too. For her sake, I'm trying to help her. Put you on the spot because you know her better than us.

We can't talk to her. What should she do? What would you have her do knowing her the way you know her? I would have her get something like a hairdressing license or something like that to where that she could maybe start something on her own or go rent a chair, but at least she would make more than minimum wage with something like that. Of course, yeah. You need to make more than minimum wage in L.A.

Is she intrigued by that, ever talked about that kind of work? When we first got together, I had actually offered to do that. And, you know, we were so young that she didn't take me up on my offer. And, you know. Well, again, I think Dave's right. I would set that aside with her and say, hey, here are a couple options, let her do some research. You've got to force this conversation. And then say, all right, we're going to put some money aside that would more than take care of the qualification process for you.

But if she took $30,000 or $40,000 to live on and spent $60 during one year to get this thing that allows her to make $70 or $80 or whatever the rest of her life, that's providing for her and for the kids. And I can't think of anything that's going to be a better investment that's going to even come close to that kind of a return. other than education certification that allows an income to be created, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think that's your provision to me is to set up a sustainable provision. And it's hard to talk about because it's, you know, it's, it's, man, it's painful. What y'all are going through is horrible. I'm so sorry.

But not talking about it's probably not a plan. And so her not addressing the issue is not going to. going to make you get well. You're going to get well independent of whether she addresses the issue. I'm not ill, but we plan my death every year in detail. If something happens to Dave this year, how does the remaining parties survive? And we go into it in detail. And that's an act of love. And that's it. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage.

To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramsysolutions.com slash insurance. Investing may seem complicated or investing may seem complicated or confusing, but it doesn't have to be. The Ramsey Investing and Retirement Hub is packed with interactive tools. resources that can help you get informed and not intimidated.

Check it out at ramsysolutions.com slash retire or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Umberto is with us in Oklahoma City. Hey, Umberto, what's up? So I am finishing up a nurse anesthesia school in about nine months. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to work the last two and a half years. Did you say you're finishing nurse anestesis school? Yes, sir.

Very good. That's in the school. Okay, great. So I'm going to have a lot of loans up to like $275,000 coming out. Wow. But you ought to be making $300, right? Yeah, $250,300. Yeah.

Okay. And you're used to make what? What are you making now? Nothing now. I was making about $100,000 as a nurse, just working a lot of overtime. Okay. So what are you going to do, live on nothing and pay it off in two years? That's some of my plan, but also planning to get engaged, get married.

I don't call for much. No, it doesn't. It really doesn't. But wanting to do, I mean, not the most extravagant wedding I can afford, of course, but at least something that's nice. I'm just curious on if it would, if the best thing to do is just to live off nothing and peanuts and just pay off as much as I can as fast as I can. Yeah, absolutely.

Okay. Now, I talked to my financial advisor as well, and he didn't make it seem that way that I should pay it off as soon as I can. Then get a new financial advisor. Gotcha. And yet you called Dave, because even you didn't think that sounded right. Yeah, well, I had a buddy who just kept, what's it called, hammering me about it, and I was like, well, I'll just call them and see what I'll just call them.

see what I can learn. Oh, so you got a really good friend. So your friend's better than your financial advisor. Yeah, that's good. So here's the thing, dude, the highest, you have engaged in a ridiculous amount of debt and have gotten an awesome degree and career choice. Okay? So so far it's worked out.

But there's, other than NFL players, there's nobody dumber with money than doctors. they're perpetually stupid with money don't be a stupid doctor with money okay you're making serious doctor money use it to straighten up the mess that you've made and go become wealthy if you keep the student rolling around like you think it's a pet so your financial advisor can get you to start investing so he can start getting commissions because you didn't fire him then that's just straight up dumb you at man can you know how much money you're going to have if you have no debt in $300,000 income and learn to live on less than that, you're going to be a multi-bazillionaire, but not if you screw around with this.

You'll just be another broke doctor. My whole life I've just kind of been always like keep the minimum and just make as much as I can and save them as much as I can. That way I can do whatever I want. Yeah, beans and rice, rice and beans. Yeah. Hey, set a five $25,000. I don't care for a wedding.

I don't mind. What does she make? She's actually finishing school, too. In what? Nurse San Diego. Oh, okay. Guess where we met. Okay.

And, yeah, and so she's going to be making the same kind of, does she got the same mess? Yeah, she'll have the same mess. Oh, geez. So we're going to have a $600,000 income and $500,000 worth of loans, right? Yep. Okay. So live like you make 100 grand and get yourself a $25,000 wedding and you guys tear the, tear the, can you, please just go to the Ramsey Solutions website and put in what will happen after you're done with all this and you make $600,000 and you put $200,000 in investments a year. How fast you will be worth $20 million will blow your freaking mind.

but go ahead and be done with this in like a year and a half. Yeah, that sounds amazing. Yeah, sit on a bean bag, don't eat out, tell your broke friends who have there all these opinions, not the good friend that we have established you have one good friend. Fire your financial advisor, live on beans and rice, rice and beans, and be completely free in making 600 grand two years from now. Dude, you're going to have so much. You're going to be able to do anything you want to do.

do but if you screw around and keep this around try to be i'm going to i'm going to pay it off on a 10 year plan i'm going to kill you because you will have wasted so much money you understand yeah dude you this is amazing where you can be and uh but please god the number of times i've talked to people in your world that that are 10 years later and they're still looking at those student loans like they're a pet they're keeping them around well i think we need to feed it a little bit just to keep it alive. Oh, my God. It's just your, no, please, please, please. The great news is you've got an incredible income potential. The horrible news is you've got to dig out of a mess before you get to have the benefit of it. No new beemers, no new, no new houses. No new, new, new,

nothing, nothing, honey. Clean up the mess. And, dude, you could, God, they're going to have so much money can i get so excited oh i was going to say i don't think you're passionate enough with that i think you should have been a little clear uh about what you mean sometimes you're a little fuzzy dave uh with these callers also i do like the uh the carrying on of the rice and beans into the bean bag i also like that touch good hand off there i thought that was nice i like that you don't need a bunch of furniture just get you you know you're the one of the few around here that's old enough to actually remember it what a bean bag chair is i do and i uh still have a couple we got Oh, you don't.

True story. They're called, it's actually got a corduroy cover on it, but it is a bean bag for both my boys, and I love them. I'll sit on them sometimes and watch football. Very comfortable. And then you admitted it. Yeah. What would be worse if I said I had a water bed?

You remember those? We got a whole generation that's no idea that it was actually a water bed. It was actually bed and you put water in it. You like floated around. It was so obnoxious. I'm glad those went away on the ash heap of his. Yeah. So, hey, man, you just, umberto, you got such a, your future so bright, you got to wear shades, man. I mean, seriously, it's incredible. But, yeah, but you really knew need to decide to

do this the right way, and that's super fast. Yeah. Well, you're addressing something that isn't just the medical community. You got people who come out of school, good degrees, and they're going to get good jobs because of said degrees. And they've been living on nothing. And now they're going to make a really nice salary. And Dave, the temptation, you know, is so strong to live on some of that money as opposed to not live on it. That's the challenge. Number one mistake, 22-year-old just graduated from college, gets the new job, the big girl job, the big boy job. Number one mistake they make. New car. Yep. Because they've been driving their high school hoopty all the way through college and I'm I'm now I'm I'm now I've got a license and a letter after my name and now I need to

spend some money that I don't have and buy a car I can't afford and yeah so it's like they exhale and it sounds like BMW yeah exactly right yeah three more letters to add to all those fancy degrees yeah it's true it's exactly right so yeah don't don't do that get your mess cleaned up before you start buying cars and houses, and then you can have the life you want. I mean, it's incredible what you'll be able to do. Absolutely incredible. So very cool stuff, guys, very cool. And on behalf of all patients in the world, we would like to have not stressed out doctors

and nurse anesthetist taking care of us. You're so stressed out because of your bills, you know, we don't need you stressed out. It's already a tough job, you know? I have personally witnessed a couple of epidurals, and I do not want those being done by a stressed out person. Great point. Yikes. Get that away from me. Yeah.

I should. I'm going to be able to be. Hey you guys, Rachel Cruz here. Look, I know you want to do better with money, but let's be honest, life seems to be getting more and more expensive. And lately, you hardly have any breathing room in your budget to do anything but cover the basics. You work way too hard to feel broke. Our every dollar budget app can help you free up margin fast. Most people find an average of $3,015 in their first 15 minutes of using the app. app. Think about it. That's thousands of dollars just sitting right there in your budget waiting

for a job to do. With every dollar, you'll find the margin and the motivation you need to start making real progress fast with your money. Start for free today. Download the every dollar app for free today. When John O'Leary was nine years old, he suffered burns over 100% of his body was given a 1% chance to live. And he shares his expertise on overcoming adversity and how to live inspired with tens of thousands of people, hundreds of events a year. He's spoken with us several times. become good friends over the years, promoted the book that became a national bestseller called On Fire. His story is breathtaking and amazing. And the only thing that's better than his story

is the guy himself. And so honored to have you with us, my friend. Congratulations on all your success. Dave Ramsey, I am grateful to be your friend. Out of everything you said, that's what I'm most grateful for. And I realize, man, this isn't my success. This is God's hand. and everything I've done, including the messups along the way, and there are many. Some we track, some we bury, but God's grace has carried us forward. So I get a call, and I get these calls occasionally from friends that have done some kind of movie or some kind of film. Hey, come, we've got the early release for the people that can help us promote it on their

shows and stuff, come over and watch it. And generally, when I go, I'm like, oh, God. And I got a call from John. got to come see the movie on my life called Soul on Fire. I went, I had to get there just a little bit late because I got tied up in a thing here at the office. And when I got there, I sat there and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried. And I know the whole story.

It wasn't like I didn't know what was coming. I knew every turning point, every milestone in the story. And I'm still, it was so well written and so well acted, I was blown away. It's an incredible movie. Yeah. Well, what makes it, I think, even more incredible as it begins with the words, a true story. And it is. And you and I were talking right before we started the show.

But it's recorded in St. Louis where I was raised. The home scenes are recorded in my mom and dad's house. The hospital scenes are recorded in the hospital where I was treated. The place where I met my future wife was recorded exactly where she and I met. And the place where she and I married is recorded in the church where we married. The girl playing my wife in the film walks down that aisle wearing the dress she war. So for us, it's not only an emotional, true story, they did such a phenomenal job of where they filmed and how they outfitted these characters. And the lady that played your wife

nailed it. I mean, because your wife is special. We all know that. But she's a hero in the story. I mean, she's incredible. Well, my favorite part about the film is when you look at the movie poster, it's not a picture of Joel Courtney playing John O'Leary with his arms up celebrating his greatness. They actually spun him around so you see his backside. And it's a mosaic of all the individuals who were the hands and feet of Jesus, who were part of this kid's survival from fire to 100% of his body, should not have survived that. But in some regards, the miraculous story is embracing the scars, embracing your life and recognizing even in the midst of agony, you can be used for good. You overcame, John, unimaginable burns, the mental, the physical, the emotional

struggle. Unbelievable. And I know there are a lot of people that are tuned in today that are feeling like their future is unimaginable. They cannot figure how they're going to get out of bone-crushing debt. A few people could speak to them the way you can. Having overcome what you have overcome, what would you say to that person who feels like they'll never get out of this debt? They're behind. They're never going to be able to live the life that they desire. Right. Me too. And I live that way, not just when I was a kid in the hospital. I think in recovery can from physical injuries is far easier than the emotional ones. So once I came home, like that alone is miraculous, but I buried the light and I kept it buried for 20 years. My life

changed in the back row of a church service. My arms were crossed. I was wiped out from the night before. We won't go into the details of that, but I'd been out too late. My life was just sideways, man, but I made it in. And the pastor was talking about the gift of talents. And he went through the five and the two and the one. And then he came to me, like when the light goes on you. And he said, and for those who feels if you have no hope and no talent, and that might be the person you're speaking to there, he said, listen to me, your life is a precious, priceless gift. You got one job now. It is to say yes to being used for good. And I didn't even know what that meant, but I wrote it down as a 28-year-old, went to work the next day, doing construction

at the time, in debt, struggling, wiped out. And I got a call from a little girl who said, Mr. John, will you speak at my school? And that simple yes to this girl to speak to three Girl Scots, to not even be paid a box of Samoas for the effort. Like we weren't killing it, man. We were not crushing debt. This wasn't helping anything, but it was setting this on a path. And in that room, a Rotarian came up and said, that was awesome, speak at my Rotary Club. They don't pay. They barely feed you. But I went. And then in their Aquinas, and then in there, a church service, and then a prison group, and this awkward, introverted nobody. just kept saying yes and it has led now over 20 years to being back on the Dave

Ramsey show to having two bestselling books to being debt free and now to have this film called Soul on Fire rolling into theaters around the country and around the world that's not my work it's God's hand and a answer of yes when the opportunity knocks yeah the movie is Soul on Fire it's in theaters October the 10th go and see it I will give you my personal guarantee that you will be glad you took the time and the little bit of money out of your pocket you will walk away inspired and ready to go a soul on fire and john is definitely personified that since i've known him so um what do you hope viewers walk away from this film with i'm going to answer that in a long-winded way so my my uh my hero's my dad you and i've

talked about this before and my my favorite scene in the film is in the church when we're we get married. You know, surprise, guys. Like, I survive the fire. It's going to be okay. I don't know why Ramsey was crying. I'm living right next to him in the seat. Like, he should be aware that kids going to survive and have a good life. Later on, I get married. And they shot this with the girl walking down the aisle wearing my wife's actual wedding dress. It's Dolly Left, Dave. So they go to the left, and then you see this man rise in the second row. It's not John Corbett, who's the actor who portrays my dad. In the second row, it's the guy he's portraying. That's my dad.

And so my dad rises, which he can't do. He had Parkinson's disease, had it for 30 years before he passed away. And when Sean and McNamara, the director yelled the word action, my heroic dad stands up. And every time I see my dad in this film, and I lose it, it's an incredible moment. But back in May, I took my dad to the film. And I thought I'd have him for years, decades probably. And he held my hand the entire time. And when your dad holds your hand for that long,

that's two, it's an hour and 40 minutes for your dad to hold your hand. But at the end of it, I said, dad, what do you think about your film? And my dad whispered back to me because he had no voice. What a gift. And what he was reviewing was not the film, Soul Hunt Fire. He had Parkinson's. He'd broken every bone in his body, most of them twice. He was financially struggling.

He was, been through two house fires, almost lost one of his kids in one. one of them. And yet at the end of the life, man, he was able to look up at his son and say, what a gift. So I hope people dance out of that theater, saying, what a gift. This story isn't my life we celebrate, man. It's yours. It doesn't make it easy, but God is working in this moment in your life and your best is yet to come. That is a gift. That is. That's exactly right. That's exactly how it works. And after he saw that, he's passed away now, right? Passed away on May 30th. Wow. Amazing. The movie, my friend John O'Leary's Life story, and you will leave with a gift.

Soul on Fire, it is in theaters beginning October the 10th. The book is On Fire, and if you ever have the opportunity to see John Speak, you should. He's spoken on our stages many times. We've shared the stage many times on different things, and he's a world-class communicator, as you can already tell. So, again, nine years old, suffered burns over 100% of his body, given a 1% chance to live. but pain and hardships bring the greatest learning lessons, and he'll show you how that works.

I can promise you. You'll come away going, oh, okay, I got no problems. Love you, John. Thanks for being with us, brother. I love you, Dave. Love you, Ken. Congratulations. Soul on fire in theaters, October 10th.

I'm going to be able to be. Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 452, I will go before you and will level the mountains. I will break down gates of bronze and cut-through bars of iron. Ella Fitzgerald said it isn't where you come from that matters. It matters where you're going. Absolutely true. All right. Here's the top questions people have about online wills.

How do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for a well? Well, if your estate is worth less than a million dollars, getting an online will is probably a great option for you. And actually, if it's worth more than a million dollars, is probably still a great option. Super complicated is what really matters. It's not the size of it necessarily. What do I need to start my online will?

Well, who do you want to get your stuff? Who do you want to take control of your minor kids? And who do you want to make decisions if you're incapacitated? That's a couple of the things they're going to ask, so be ready for them. Is an online will legally valid? Well, of course, silly. Ramsey Solutions.com slash will's quiz to find out if an online will is right for you. Aaron is with us in Indianapolis.

Aaron, how are you? Good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Nothing much, Dave. So I want to be briefing to the point here. I'm a big fan of your podcast and I listen in recently as I've been traveling a lot.

And right now I'm in a bit of a situation. My dad passed away earlier this year. And he left pension money from, he was a union worker for my mom as a beneficiary. So I'm calling on behalf of my mom. and she is trying to find out what to do with that money that was left behind. How much is it? We want to, it's $126,000. Okay.

Go to ramsysolutions.com and click on SmartFestor Pro. Find someone in your area that has the heart of a teacher that we have vetted and let them sit down with your mom and tell your mom what our choices are. She needs to roll it into some good growth, stock mutual funds, into an IRA. Yes. So we were presented with a fixed index annuity. Absolutely not. Horrible. No. No. Horrible. Who presented that? Someone who worked with my mom to help her build a trust right after this happened with my mom. So I immediately was kind of skeptical. I had heard what you had said about it.

So I wanted to make sure I was making the right decision. Help your mom build a trust. Why does your mother need a trust? She has property as well. Yeah, but that doesn't mean you need a trust. Yeah, that's what we would just, we were advised. You could just. By the person who sells trust.

No, no, by a different person who recommended us to the person who, how much property does your mother have? she has three different rental properties and then the current house how old is she she is 51 okay i personally would not put any of that in a trust it's a complete overkill and it's a complete pain in the butt to operate rental properties in a trust because of the operational aspects of writing checks to fix the heat and air and everything else i all got to go through the trust and it's a it's a pain in the butt they should just be in lc's there's no benefit to them being in the trust. So I think this is somebody that sells trust or doesn't know

what the flip they're doing, one of the two. So no, I wouldn't do that. But anyway, and I wouldn't do the other either. So so far, I don't like any of the people that have given you all advice. I don't like any of the advice they've been giving you. So, yeah, I would get with a smart vester pro and do a rollover on the pension. And I would not put the houses in a trust. I'd put them in LLCs. And there's no, there's just no point in it. It doesn't do anything. So, So, yeah. I like it when you tell them, I don't like any of those people. And that's that.

Charles is in Topeka, Kansas. Hey, Charles, what's up? Hey, I just got a question. So I recently purchased my second home, and I was able to buy it in cash, and we paid off all our other debts this year. Doesn't that feel great? It does. I'm sleeping good.

I'll tell you that. I'll be able to every morning. I bet you are. I'm proud of you, man. Way to go. What's your net worth? Oh, probably around, you know, six or seven hundred thousand. Good for you.

Way to go, man. And all the cars. Good for you. But, yeah, so after child care, all my bills, groceries, that kind of stuff, I have about 2,000 left over. And I want to know how much monthly I should throw into, like, retirement or, you know, custodial accounts for the kids because I, you know, kind of want to do. some dumb stuff and go on vacations and do things like that oh that's not dumb you've earned it you should go do those things yeah so you've just got to lay it out and parse it out and go okay

there's three things i can do with money at baby step seven i can have fun with it and i should i can be generous with it and i should and i can invest it and i should as far as kids custodian accounts how old are the kiddos uh six months and two and a half okay yeah i mean you can put some in there i wouldn't overload it too much If you want to put some in a 529 instead and be thinking about college, that's fine, or education of some kind. Trade school also qualifies for 529s. So whatever they're going to do, they're going to need some training post-high school. And, yeah, I'll be preparing for that, but you don't have to go hog wild on that.

And you should be putting at least 15%. You should have been before you paid off the house, 15% of your household income going into retirement accounts. But at this stage, you ought to be doing more than that. but we were in a house that we probably shouldn't have been, but I bought a fixer-upper, and it's all worked out in the end. Okay, so you got that behind you, so now you can put at least that away, but you ought to be putting at a minimum of 15,

but at Baby Step 7, I'd like to say you'd be doing more than 15% of your income into retirement and be doing something towards the kids' college and something towards fun, and there ought to be room in this budget to do all that. And just sit down with your SmartVestor Pro and lay out your game plan on how we're going to invest, what we're going to invest in, and, you know, lay out your Roth IRAs, load them up,

load up the Roth 401Ks at work if you've got them, and so forth. And then you'll look up in just a few years, and it'll be millions and millions of dollars. It's kind of amazing how quickly it grows, how fast this life goes, for that matter. Yeah, you know, for folks that are listening, watching, we have a lot of new folks coming in all the time. This is a great call. As Dave's giving that advice, you have to understand the baby steps are not a suggestion. This is a tried and true plan.

And you refer to it privately, you know, in our building, in our meetings, that it's a clear path developed over time as you walk through with people in real life money situations. And I'm telling you the fundamental truth about the baby steps, Dave, is that it creates massive financial and personal and relationship momentum. It just does. It does. And the – because – you're getting you're setting yourself free yeah you're working like crazy and you're actually getting traction so many people with money feel like a rat in a wheel yeah they feel out of control they're reactive instead of proactive and when you get the other side of all of that guys it

it really turns things around in every area of your life um you know Stephen Covey all those years ago had that book and it's still on the bestseller list I look up total money makeovers on there. Seven habits of highly effective people is on there. Number one habit of highly effective people. They are proactive. They happen to things. Yes. Not everything happens to them. So if you're in a situation and you don't like where you are, happen to it. What is it we're going to do? What are we going to, what kind of dynamite are we going to throw in the middle of this? Pull the pen on the grenade, light up the room, baby. Let's go. There's something's got to change here. And if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, expect them a different result. That's the definition.

of insanity. That's what the 12-stepers tell us. And so, you know, I can't seem to break the cycle. We'll break the cycle then. Yeah. It's genius how we know, we talk to people all the time, how hard it is for many people just to get through Baby Step 1, which is to get $1,000. And when you're broke, you know how hard that is. But there's something about that. It propels you beautifully into Baby Step 2, which is a tiny little confidence builder. It is. And it's hard sometimes, and you get through that hardship. Guess what happens? Your shoulders come back a little bit. You feel a sense. of what Dave just talked about, self-control, you did something that you didn't think was

going to be possible, and that's the magic of these baby steps. Work the baby steps, not out of order, one through seven. Yeah, one is before two, is before three, is before four. That's how that works. And so don't call me up and ask me to change them, okay? It'll be better for you and me both if you don't do that. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus.