The Ramsey Show - Quit Letting Broke People Give You Financial Advice!

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan Dave Ramsey & Jade Warshaw answer your questions and discuss: "My dad won't tell my brother that he is getting next to nothing from dad's will.." "I'm 18 years-old and already have $110k of debt," "My dad got two credit cards in my name," "My wife and I are worried that we're leaving too much inheritance to our kids," "If I were your son, how soon would you recommend buying a house?" "My family keeps trying to find out my income," Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp ◎ Get 10% off Byrna product bundles and more! 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY ⛨ Find top Health Insurance Plans at Health Trust Financial 💸 To find out more about student loan refinancing, check out Laurel Road 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at The Nokbox 💵 Learn more about Timothy Plan 🏛 Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today!  Next Steps 📱 Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 📈 Get tickets to Investing Essentials and learn to invest with confidence. 🎟️ Preorder Build a business You Love today. 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🎟️ Get Tickets to the Money & Relationships Tour 🪑 Check out Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman! Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Me and Dr. John Delaney are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. It's happening soon, so don't wait. Get your tickets at ramsysolutions.com slash tour. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washaugh, number one bestselling author, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. As we take your questions about your life and your money, we're gonna talk about you right in front of you, honey.

That's how we do it. And hey, the phone number is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. It's triple eight, eight two five, five two two five. Jump in and we will talk. Laurie is in Salt Lake City. Hey Laurie, welcome to the Ramsay show. Thank you Dave. Hey what's up? Well my dad is going to leave my brother next to nothing when he dies and he's not telling him. How do you know? What did he tell you?

He told me that he set up a trust with a fiduciary and that he was going to leave different amounts to us three children in different ways. And then he told me he had set up some other things in the trust to protect it. Okay. So you said that the brothers left out, but you just said he's gonna leave something to the three of you.

Is it a different amount of money or? Yeah. Tell us more. Yes. He's going to, told me he's gonna leave him 10,000. And what did the other kids get? I'm not sure because he hadn't said, but my sister, he didn't tell me how much. He just told me that he was going to give her a large lump sum because she's the most

fiscally prepared for the future, most fiscally responsible, makes the most, handles her money the best. Okay. what about you me? Yeah, he so he set up monthly payments Basically for 25 years. Oh how much? 3,500 per month, okay How old you and? I'm 58. 58? Yeah. Okay, this sounds like your dad is pretty controlling. It's a little bit, it's a little bit of gamesmanship, manipulative, the way he's handling all this. Does that sound right?

No, I would not describe him that way at all. Then why isn't he just telling your brother? I think it's because he has experienced a serious lack of respect and things have happened in the past that have hurt an already struggling relationship that struggled a lot pretty much from the very beginning. And he just doesn't want to do it. He's a year older. Okay. All right. Well, I, wow.

But it's not like a... Number one, there is no one, no one is entitled to an inheritance. It's your dad's money. He can do with it what he wants to do with it. Okay? Even if someone else thinks it's weird, it's his money and he can do with it what he wants to. He's trying to not stir up a problem with your brother,

it sounds like, where there's already problems and this would just throw gas on the fire is what you're telling me. Okay? Yes. So, and he didn't tell you I Think he puts you in an awkward position by you having the information and not telling him the brother

But I don't think he thought about that No, he he knows because I brought it up I told him That he was putting me in a really awkward position. But you're not asked to administer it. You have a fiduciary, there's a trustee. So you're not, there's no way you get blamed

because you're not in the line of fire. You're not having to administer this to your brother. The trustee will. Does the other, does your other sister know that these are the plans as well? Yes. So maybe the conference, because here's where I'm getting at. I agree with what Dave said, but it's almost like he's not dealing with the problem now, but the problem will be yours when dad passes away because your brother,

I don't know what kind of guy your brother is, but I would not want to, if I were you, I would not want to be in this situation where someone can feel resentment towards me for something that someone else didn't deal with. And now you're in the situation to have to say, well, I don't know why he did this. And that weight can be on you. That's the part of this that I don't like if I were sitting in your shoes. I brought that up to him and he said he was concerned for my safety. So he set up in the trust as soon as he dies I can either stay in the house for three months or I can move immediately and his trust will pay to get me out because he was concerned

about the repercussions. I'm sorry, whose house are you in? I live with my father. I had to move in with him five years ago to help him because he needs a living caretaker I work full-time, but I moved across the country to help him five years ago and I've tried I did have a place on my own But I was traveling 30 minutes one way to help him on a daily basis The narrative not be that your brother says hey because, because you were living with dad, you talked him into this? Yes, that's going to be the narrative. But what about this?

What threw me on what you said is the safety. He said if he's afraid for your safety, what kind of guy is your brother? That he would say that. Well, he's never been violent to me or to my dad or to my family members, but he's had violent interactions with other people on the other side of his family, and I have actually had to ask my brother to leave my dad's house at one point because he was verbally abusing him when I

first came down here to help, or came up here to help my dad. And how old is your dad? You said he's eighty? He's eighty-three. Okay. Alright, your dad is not handling this well. He owes you, in return for your care of him, even though it's not going to be pretty, he owes that it lands on him and he needs to tell your brother while he's alive and if i'm you i'm gonna demand that

because this is good this is gonna land on you because of proximity it's gonna look like you talked him into doing all this yes yes so your dad your dad is being a coward and he's letting this land on you and he and i know he doesn't want to face it and he could just send him a letter. He doesn't have to say, here's what I'm doing,

I'm giving sister number one lump sum because she's responsible, I'm giving sister number two that takes care of me monthly because she's not as responsible. And since you and I don't have a quality relationship, I'm only leaving you this. And he needs to just send him a note that says that. And I love you, but you and I, as you know,

have struggled for many years and I don't, and I am not going to bless that with my estate. So you need to know that in the front end. And this is my decision. Your sisters have had no input on this. I decided this with my lawyer. And this is what's happening. And let him take the brunt of this

so that the narrative is not reset in the vacuum because that's what's gonna happen. That piece of you living with him and taking care of him changes the conversation. Before I was a little bit like, eh, whatever. But now with you living there, it's gonna look like you spent five years manipulating the old man into getting money

and cutting a brother out after you had to throw him out for being verbally abusive. It's going to look like it's going to land on you. There's no question about it. And your dad needs to take care of that. That's unfair to you. If I was the old man involved, I'd be stepping up. This is the Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You've probably heard people talk about different kinds of flags in friendships and romantic relationships. Red flags, green flags, beige flags. Listen, it can be helpful to look for patterns or unsafe behaviors in potential relationships, but all those labels can distract from what's really important, your values, and whether you and your potential partner are willing to wake up every day

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Thank you for joining us. Michael is in Toronto. Hey Michael, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thank you. What's up? So, I'm currently 18 and by the time I graduate, I'm probably looking at a hundred to a hundred and twenty thousand dollar loan that I'm sitting at and my current car is under my mom's name with her interest rates on it and her credit

got ruined by my dad leaving and I'm looking to switch the car with a way less percentage of interest but I have to max out my credit cards for the entry for the down payment to put on it. And I don't know what to do if it's even worth it or not. What's your car? Uh, what do you owe on the car? Yeah, I'm sitting. So I bought the car at 30,000. I'm looking at 41,000.

I know. And you're a college student. I'm first year. Yes. With a $40,000 freaking car. What are you doing with a $40,000 car? You're a college student. I had a $70,000 car and another $60,000 I sold it. I made profit but my mom's credit card ruined and

they gave me a 12% interest on it and I didn't realize until yesterday when I checked and I only had it for five months. I don't think this is your mom's fault. You bought a $30,000 car, a $40,000 car, and you're in college. You get a $4,000 car. Do you make any money? What's your income?

So I'm sitting at 1,000 to 1,500 from my work at retail and I had site businesses before and I had like about seventy thousand dollars I blew it all and now I make maybe five hundred to a thousand dollars from my side businesses a month okay do you have any money saved nothing I'm in debt by credit cards okay so the car you owe forty one thousand on it if you sold it private sale, what's it worth? Or your mores? Right now with the trade-in, they're giving me 27.

Oh my gosh. That's the trade-in. $12,000 negative equity on it. Okay. But let's look at, that's your homework is to look at the Kelly Blue Book value if you did private sale, because you're going to get more for it. No, I did. It's 30,500.

30,500. Okay. If I were in your shoes. I can't there's a lien on the car that I can't pay. Yeah I mean you make a thousand dollars a month your car payments more than that isn't it? My car payments comes exactly to a thousand. So how are you paying it? Credit cards? Basically everything I got. No, no I can't put on credit. If you make a thousand dollars a month and you spend a thousand month on your car you don't have money to put gas in it and you don't have money to eat.

So I don't know how. No I make like fifteen hundred. I can on a good month I make two thousand on small months in retail I make like $1,500. On a good month, I make $2,000. On small months in retail, I make $1,500. Okay, so you got $500 to spare. You eat a little bit, you pay your insurance, you get gas, you've got nothing left. Yeah. Okay, let me stop a second because I did a drive-by on something a minute ago I want to know more about. You had $70,000 in savings, you said, from a side hustle that you blew.

Did I hear you say that? Yes. Tell me about that side hustle. Where did all that wonderful money come from? It came from my used to sell skin protectors and cases during COVID when I was 14 and, um, Amazon. So no COVID, no business. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. And I gave most of it to my mom after the separation and she's sitting at least at 300 to $400,000 herself. Yeah. Okay. You're 18. You're 18.

Your mother is not your responsibility. Your responsibility is to love her and cheer for her, but not your, she's not your financial responsibility so this has got to stop and unless you can create a huge income you need to get rid of this car and get a $2,000 car I tried doing that but I have to so the loan I would put that would put the five I put the ten thousand dollars on a credit card I'd rather you have ten,000 on a credit card. I'd rather have $10,000 on a credit card than $41,000 on a card. Amen.

I can't put it on a credit card. Why? I have maybe 3,500 left on a credit that I can spend. Yeah, okay. Who do you owe the $41,000 to? To a bank. Go down and talk to the bank about signing a note for the difference.

Do that, right? And then what about on the new car so that's the thing that doesn't make sense to me on the new car that I looked at that I'm gonna get see monthly payments instead of 96 month loan. I didn't say anything about monthly payments I said get a $2,000 car. Cash. We tried when we went to the bank. I didn't want you to go to the bank. I want you to come up with two thousand dollars and go buy a car. Just buy a car? Yeah. Are you in school full time? Yeah. Are you on campus? You're at home or at home? Campus.

So, where do I live? At home. Okay. how close are you to campus? What I'm getting at is you might go through two months where you don't have a vehicle and you make it work and instead of using that thousand dollars a month to pay for a car note, you use it to save up and get yourself a little beater car is what we're saying. I'm one of your buddies taking you to class. I'm not a little way from campus. Okay, all right. Okay, here's the thing. We keep throwing suggestions out and the only answer you've got is it doesn't work. So let me tell you what doesn't work. Your life the way you have it set up right now. Your situation sucks beyond belief. The decisions you have made are beyond suicidal financially. So you've got to throw a stick of dynamite in the middle of this

freaking mess you've created and it's gonna be really uncomfortable but you know what's gonna be more uncomfortable? You sit there in this pile of stuff and you're gonna smell like this stuff as long as you sit there in it coming up with excuses to sit there in it. So you have got to get rid of this mess. You've got to create a big... you may need to quit school. You need to go get some dad gum money and start cleaning up this mess So I want you working like 80 90 hours a week Going to school on caffeine and doing what normal people do when they get in this instead of telling me Oh, my mom got screwed over by my dad when he left

I'm sorry but that doesn't mean you buy a $70,000 car while you're in college and downgrade it to a $41,000 car and act like that's smart nowhere in this conversation is smart smart didn't come up today okay no it didn't even show up here so dude you've got to get rid of the car and you've got to figure this out some way or another now we're giving you lots of suggestions okay and you've got to figure this out some way or another now We're giving you lots of suggestions. Okay, take get a buddy to take that's in the neighborhood to take you to college quit college for a year and Take you a gap year and go clean this mess up while you work like a freaking maniac

But you are man you you you cannot there's nothing in this that the math works. Sixth graders could tell you this math doesn't work. This is a mess. And so no, you can't keep this car. And no, you can't keep this life the way it is designed right now. That's why you called. And you can't get another car on payments. And I'm not going to argue with you about it anymore.

I'm through talking to you about it. So you go fix this. We gave you some suggestions, but part of fixing it is you've got to decide that where I live, the land I live in right now is the land of stupid and I want to leave. That's the first decision you got to make. And we haven't even been able to get that far with you.

So that's where you got to go, man. That's where you got to go. Open phones here at 888- 2 5 5 2 2 5. Now Jade let's just review the policies on this show. Review it. We love you. All of you. If you've done something stupid. We love you anyway. We've done something stupid. I have a PhD in DUMB. Jade and Sam cleaned up $465,000 worth of stupid in their life. So no one's sitting here high and mighty talking down to someone. So we love you. We love you so much we're going to tell you the truth. We're going to start gentle. And we're going to

start by trying to help you move along. But if you want to argue with us while we're trying to help you, it's going to get nasty fast because we love you. I'm going to smack you upside your stupid head until you listen to the stuff that will make your life better. Now we'll start with a gentle handshake and say, honey, this is the best way to do it. Well Dave, I listen to you all the time but I'm not selling the car. Well, you're an idiot. You got to sell the car. That's what that's how it's gonna sound around here honey. Okay so we're going to serve you when you call here. You're not entertainment value for us. You're a calling for us. You're a crusade for us. We want you to win and

we're going to do everything in our power starting at first gently and turning up the heat by degrees during the time we're on the phone together until we have contact. This is the Ramsey Show. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay

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They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years. So you know they'll be there when you need them. Xander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Xander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch give them a call at 800-356-4282 owning your own business is awesome owning your own business is freaking hard it's hard part of the problem is you have a jerk for a boss. When you own your own business,

your boss will work you into the dirt. They will work you like a rented mule. It's hard, y'all. And it's why most businesses don't make it. It's hard. And it's really hard when you don't have a clear path and you don't know how to go to the next stage, you don't make it. It's hard. And it's really hard when you don't have a clear path and you don't know how to go to the next stage. You don't know what to do. Man, I remember I've been doing this for almost 40 years, this thing called Ramsey. It started on a card table in my living room. And the number of stupid things I have done will fill three buildings. We have survived my stupid. I can bail my stupid. It's everywhere. And I've done enough smart to offset it and y'all know me for everything that was smart, but I'm telling you man, I can just tell you, I could write two books on my

stupid. Instead what I did was we wrote a new book called Build a Business You Love instead of one that beats you to death. And the new book, Build a Business You Love, is our Entrez leadership system that identifies the clear path to growing and getting a business that you love instead of one that beats the snot out of you. Because it'll just beat you to death. And it's wonderful, we love it. Those of us that are entrepreneurs, we like the fight. We're ready to double up our fist and hit something. We get it. but it's tough and nobody tells you this stuff man. Well I can tell you because I've been there done that and we've coached over

10,000 small businesses. There are five distinct stages of business and there are six things that drive the business towards growth and to propel you through those five stages. We're in the final stage of the five stages at Ramsey, the legacy stage where you work on succession and the next generation and so on. The beginner stages, the treadmill stage where you just run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, and get nowhere. You just run your dead gum little legs off. And how do you get off that treadmill? Well, there's some specific things you need to do. We're gonna show you. This is the baby steps for small businesses system.

It's a clear path and knowing exactly where to go not based on some research project but based on 30 years of doing it and on coaching small businesses with this exact system. 10,000 of them. Build a business you love. It comes out April 15th. It's on pre-sale right now I'm really excited about this project. It's really good and Yeah, I mean it's really good and you pre-order the book for 29.99 We're gonna give you 350 dollars worth of stuff if you buy it now To bribe you to get you to buy the book early because it helps our marketing so shut up

Instant access to the Entrez leadership hiring playbook. Yep that's in there. That's a big video that you're gonna be get to watch right now. Hiring and firing number one pain point of business people is the humans that we love and the humans that we want to kill sometimes. They're called our team and we love them and man sometimes it's almost like having disruptive children. Early access to the e-book, the enhanced audiobook, all of that's gonna be there. It's $350 worth of stuff $29.99. ramsaysolutions.com slash store. Click the link in the description if you're a tuber or a podcaster then we'll try to help you out.

Andrew's in Louisville, Kentucky. Hi Andrew, what's up in your world? Not much, how are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Oh yeah. So, um, when I was 18, I'm 20 now, when I was 18, I went to get my first credit card from the bank and they made it aware to me credit cards out and um, my dad's name, he made me a co-signer and they were destroying my credit. I think my credit card was like 500. Um, so I made that clear to them or aware to them. My parents, they apologized, they took them off. And then I've been real busy. I got married, had a

baby and just kind of haven't been too worried about my credit. I decided to look at my credit today and realized that the one card they said they took me off of, they did it. It was an Amex Delta card. And it's maxed out at a thousand dollars, a thousand dollar limit. It's maxed out at like 1300. So they're, they're over their limit on it and it's maxed out at a thousand dollars, a thousand dollar limit. It's maxed out at like 1300. So they're over their limit on it and it's been destroying my credit. So I wanted to see if you thought it was wrong of me to market it as fraud or what, what, what route you would take in this. Can you get it all off my credit history?

Well, it is fraud. Let's be clear about that. Yeah, it is. You did not sign it. No. There's someone sign it. No. Someone else signed your name. If someone else signed your name, that's called identity theft. It's criminal fraud. If the crime, if the criminal happens to be your parents, that's also an issue, but it's criminal fraud. So it is fraud. Jade's

right. So, um, mechanically American express is probably one of the worst companies on the planet regarding this stuff. They are nasty. So those of you that have an Amex card at work, they will try to hold you liable if your company goes broke and you're only a user and you signed nothing obligating you to that debt. Your company runs up 11 million dollars on an Amex card and you're an employee user of an Amex, a company Amex card, you're gonna get screwed like you've never been screwed in your life. This company is horrendous. They are nasty. Can you tell I like them?

Now the first thing I would do is I would go ahead and challenge this entry and say this is identity theft, remove this from my bureau. Now what happens is the credit card companies download to the credit bureaus in mass massive computer files once a quarter. They do a dump. Okay and And so the credit card or the the the number one if you just if you dispute this based on fraud they will contact Amex and ask Amex if it is fraud. Amex will not respond because they just don't bother. Okay? And then it will be taken off of your credit bureau report. And then two quarters from now, it will be dumped on there again in the next dump.

And you get to do it again and again and again until you cut this dandelion off at the roots, which is your parents. So you need to get back on the phone with them and say, dad, um, this is now harming our relationship because I have a baby over here that needs a future and you all not taking care of this when you fraudulently used

my name has to stop and I'm giving you 48 hours or I'm filing a police report if you don't get my name off this freaking credit card. Now you can be nicer than report if you don't get my name off this freaking credit card. Now you can be nicer than that if you want, but that's the essence of the conversation. Right. Okay. Cause your dad and mom are not only disorganized and sloppy, they're horrible human beings

for doing this to their own kid. Right. Right. Um, so as far as telling them to get my name off of it and then marketing it's fraud, um, and then taking my name off of it, like, well, it's still going to affect my history though, right? No, no, it'll be, it'll all go off. If they remove the entire, they remove the entire account and any mention of it because it's not in your name. Okay. Okay. All right.

So just mark it as fraud and tell them to get my name off of it. No, this is not my card. I'm challenging this entry on my bureau. Do it with all three bureaus. Okay. Uh, with Equifax, TransUnion, TRW, all three of them. All right. You got to go to them individually and you can file and I recommend sending them a certified letter, return receipt requested or a FedEx. And, and, and in your letter state this is fraud and by the write this down the federal fair debt selection practices act federal law I am demanding that

you remove this or prove it to be true within 30 days they will remove it but it will be put back on dump with the next computer dump from Mx if your mom and dad don't get your name off of it right so you got to do both okay so one one more time what is the name of one of those three agencies you said I have to go to just pull out you can pull it up online it's the three credit card the three credit bureaus Trw and Yeah, okay, and and okay Yeah, go to each one of them because they're separate entities and they're probably you pull up all of them

You can pull it up on something like credit karma, but you get sucked into a whole bunch of marketing junk You don't want to screw with so I just go straight. I just go straight to the horse's mouth Okay, sounds good. Yeah. Alrighty Dave. Hey man get after it and listen follow through on this you've got to put a bow on it because it's gonna keep growing and it's gonna get harder and harder and harder to get rid of the longer this goes on. So mom and dad need to take this off by Friday. Friday. And any of you that do this to your children, shame on you. You do not have that right to be a criminal with your own children. This is the Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work

or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with Netsuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite, there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions.

NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next and speaking of what's next download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey it's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey thank you for joining us America open phones at at 888-825-5225. There are a few things in my life that I've run into that other than things from the Bible that I am 1000% sure work. Teaching the seven baby steps that we teach here, the first one is save a

thousand dollars, the second one is get out of debt, everything but the house, using a debt snowball and gazelle intensity, as if you're running from a cheetah, the gazelle runs for its life. That's the intensity you use to get out of debt. You sell so much stuff the kids think they're next, you don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there and you're not going on vacation because you're a broke person in debt and you are ears laid back running headlong straight into this getting rid of it baby and we're going to leave it all on the field. That's baby step number two.

And then you go on to building an emergency fund, retirement plan, kids college, pay off the house and become very wealthy. Those are the seven baby steps and in essence and you can find those everywhere and the Total Money Makeover book is where we outline them. We've sold 12 million copies of that. Ten million people have been through Financial Peace University where we teach those baby steps and how to implement them. So tens of millions literally of people and there's tens of millions of you listening at this moment to this podcast on YouTube and on talk radio so we know that

easily a hundred million people have done some stage or some process of the baby steps and With varying degrees of success because of varying degrees of commitment and sacrifice like you do with anything So it's it's a it's a proven thing. It's not a theory that comes out of a test tube. The debt snowball is probably what we've become best known for. Now this is where you list all of your debts except your home, smallest to largest. You pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. You attack the one with a vengeance you squeeze every dollar every drop out of your budget and you throw it at the little one you work extra you sell stuff you clean out a savings account all the way down to a thousand dollars you stop

putting money in your 401k you get term insurance and cash in your stupid whole life policy you sell a car if it's too expensive you do whatever you got to do and you throw every dime at that smallest debt until it's gone. When that one's gone you take the payment you used to pay there and every dime you can squeeze out of everything else and you put it on number two and when number two's gone the payment from number one and number two are freed up, the snowball rolls over again, it picks up more snow and it attacks the third one. And you're doing this with just increasing levels of hope, increasing levels of sacrifice, increasing levels of passion and every attacks the third one and you're doing this with just increasing levels of hope increasing levels of sacrifice increasing levels of passion and every time the snowball rolls over and

you get rid of another payment that's that much more money freed up in your monthly budget to attack the next one down and it's been unbelievably successful. But Dave I gotta be I'm the person because I know what they say in the comments I I see what people are asking and the bigger the biggest two questions are this Dave. I've got my debt listed What if I have a debt that the interest rate is just killing me? Why would I put the lower one first? Why would I list them small to largest if it means me, you know having to pay this high interest loan for much longer? What about the math, Dave? It's brain chemistry.

A dopamine is released when you complete a task. There's a dopamine release. And it's called a feedback loop in psychology. And so when you have success at something, you're more likely to repeat the task. That's right. And the faster you have success, and the more often you have success,

the more you've got a feedback loop and the more the dopamine release is there and in a spiritual realm we would call this hope. You start to believe it's going to work because it's working and then you lean in that much more and you lean in that much more and you lean in that much more and that's why this works because no one set up, sat down at their kitchen table and said, hey, let's go deeply in debt because that's a good idea. A series of behaviors put you into debt. And you don't fix a behavior problem with a math solution.

You fix a behavior problem with a behavior solution. And the feedback loop, this positive feedback, I knocked out one, yeah. I knocked out another one, yeah. I knocked out another one, whoa, and then you're down, you're beating on that student loan, you're beating on that big one, you're beating on that car, and you're, yeah, and now you're starting to yell at your neighbors think there's problems over there, you know, because you're getting fired up because it's working, and that's the dopamine release, that's hope, that's

you starting to believe, and when I first started, I paid off the little one, I wasn't so sure, and the next one, I'm, well, maybe this will work, and then the next one, yeah, it's gonna work, and the third one's like, ah! And then your broke friends start making fun of you and you wanna punch them, you know? And so this is why it works.

And that's why the dead avalanche does not work. That's right. Or consolidation, you know, when people. Exactly, because you don't change your habits. That's right. The dead avalanche is where you list, you know, you list your, it's mathematically correct. Well, honey, if we were doing math, we wouldn't have credit card debt. It's not a math problem. It's a stupid problem. That's what we have to fix, the stupid, not the math. And so the math is, you know, we're going to list it

highest interest rate to smallest interest rate because this interest rate's killing me. And here's the problem. While that sounds like it's mathematically correct, it's not. Because your math that you're using is very naive and you left variables out of the math formula. Here's a variable you left out of your math formula, probability of completion. If your probability of completion is 80 or 90 percent with a snowball, but the math is running against you, when net of probability of completion, it's going to beat the avalanche because the probability of completion is close to zero. Almost no one finishes that because there's no feedback loop, no dopamine release, no hope release, no sacrifice increase, no getting the spouse on board because this crap's starting to work for the first

time in my life I'm telling money what to do instead of it telling me what to do. I am not relinquishing this control ever again. You start getting a little swagger, man. You're ready to go. That's true. And that's why this thing works and why so many millions of people have gotten out of debt using the Remzi system, which is just freaking common sense. But you know you people there think your debt avalanche is mathematically superior. No, your math is naive and your formula is incomplete because you don't know what the flip you're doing.

So Northwestern University did a study of the debt snowball versus the avalanche, and they concluded because of probability of completion that the snowball was far superior, because if you quit and you don't get out of debt using the mathematically superior, which is not really mathematically superior, it doesn't work. So you don't get completion, you don't get to the goal. So, and then Time Magazine comes out and does a story on the Northwestern study and they go, turns out Dave Ramsey was right. We didn't already know that.

We've got like millions of proof texts here. We've got so much social proof on this, it's unbelievable. We beat your research project into submission. So good God, people. This is not that hard. Get your butt project into submission. So good God people, this is not that hard. Get your butt out of debt. Your number one wealth building tool is your income. And when you're giving it to stupid Bank of America, Lexus Motor Credit and MasterCard, who's your master of your life, and you wonder why you work so hard to make a hundred thousand dollars a year and I got nothing It's because you're giving it all to these

Stupid banks and you've got to get back control of your life You just you work too hard to be broke people you need to retain control of your life. This is so empowering It is so Dave get a little bit more tactical because we know okay. We're listening small so large is okay Dave I will do the debt snowball method, but where do cars fit into that? You're telling people all the time to sell their car. That's not my smallest debt. Do I do it first? Do I wait until I get to that on the debt snowball?

When do I sell my car? The rule is if you can pay the car off and all the other debt within two years, not counting your house, and you like the car, keep it in the debt snowball and pay it off. But if the car is keeping you from making it out in two years, if it's one of the reasons, okay? But if you got a $5,000 car and a $200,000 student loan, the car is not your problem. That's right, that's right.

But you got a $70,000 car and a $6,000 student loan, and you can't make it out in two years. Well, it's the car, stupid. You know, so get rid of the dumb car. So can you get rid of the thing and do you like it? Well, I hate it. Well, get rid of it anyway then. You get rid of it even if you weren't broke because you don't like the stupid thing.

But I love the car and I can pay it off and all of my other debts with the money I have in savings and the money I can earn and using the debt snowball during a two-year period of time then keep the car I'm fine with that yeah, and the only exception would be the IRS That's the only thing that jumps to the top of the list fair child support child support Yeah, anything like that goes to the front of the list because they're gonna come get it anyway That's right and child support you take care of babies for you do any of this shut up, but the You know the IRS is going to get their pound of flesh, so you need to put them at the front and get

rid of them as soon as possible. They have collection abilities nobody else has. This is the Ramsey Show. You spent years trying to get everything just right for your family. Now you need an easy way to make sure your important financial documents are as organized as the rest of your house. Well, good news! KnockBox, that's N-OK-Box, as in Next of Kin Box, is a complete system that helps you be sure that you leave happy memories, not a mess, when you pass away. KnockBox is a simple way to organize important paper and digital documents, IDs, tax returns, insurance policies, estate plans, accounts, and other personal history

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Open phones at 888-825-5225. Mark is in Orlando. Hey Mark, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi Dave, hi Jade. Thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? So my wife and I have done a wonderful job at saving and investing. You know, depending upon the age that we retire at, I don't think it's unrealistic that we could end up with a nest egg of between eight

and twelve million dollars. Well done, sir. Touchdown. Thank you. Thank you. So, my question is, we're a Christian family. We have four younger, younger, wonderful daughters between the ages of seven and thirteen right now. And I want to know what you feel is appropriate to leave behind as an inheritance, excuse me, because we're conscious of what the Bible says about money and we don't want to spoil our children or teach them to rely on money as opposed to relying on God for their needs, you know, going forward after we pass. Mm-hmm. Do you not think it's possible to teach them that and with having built that character that then they're then able to own this wealth like you are able to

own this wealth? Well I'm not saying that at all. I just, you know, I never had a nest egg like that passed to me. No, I know. I know. But do you think the only way to learn it is to start out broke? No. I don't think so. And the Bible does not say it's bad to leave an inheritance. As a matter of fact, it says the opposite. A godly man leaves an inheritance to his children's children is a Bible verse. Totally agree with you. I just didn't know if there was maybe a line that maybe, you know,

you might cross over like that's too much or something like that. That was not, it's not an amount. Um, it's a principle. And so here's the principle. You are not obligated biblically or otherwise to leave the money to your children. Okay. But to assume that it's going to damage them is not true. Okay. So what wealth does do is it magnifies the character of the person? Including you including me and including your kids and my kids and Jade's kids, okay It magnifies the character of the person so that the problems in my character are magnified

When I've got wealth because it gives me power Does that make sense the good parts of my character are also magnified. So someone that has a problem with their temper when they become wealthy becomes a rageaholic, and don't you know who I am? Comes out of their mouth and stupid stuff like that, right? But someone who's generous when they become wealthy, we call them a philanthropist because they change entire communities with their generosity. So whatever it is, good or bad, is magnified. And so the first thing that we taught the Ramsey kids is you're not entitled to anything

just because you hit the gene pool lottery, right? You're not entitled to anything, number one. Number two, in order to be qualified to manage the Ramsey wealth, the next generation, you have to have a spiritual understanding of the wealth and that is that you don't own it. God owns it. You're just managing it and once you grasp that, you realize wealth is the reason, you see the reason is that the Bible has warnings about wealth because it's heavy to carry. It's a lot of responsibility to leave one of your children that becomes an adult, 10 or 15 million dollars, probably by then each.

Okay? Yes. And so you leave one of them 10 million dollars. That's a lot of responsibility if their job is to manage it for God, for His glory. Which includes taking care of your own household. Mark, let me ask a question on your behalf, because when I hear your question, I have thoughts of my own, because here's the thing. If you live to be, you know, 80 and your kids are older when they start receiving this wealth, that in some ways that feels a little bit better. It's like, okay, they've got to experience life. They're not dependent on this money

at that point. But what if the worst were to happen and they got this, they got access to this money earlier, right, maybe when they're in their early 20s. How, Dave, then would you disperse this amount to where it is helpful to them? It's not too heavy at one season. Or would you disperse it? What would you do?

Well, ours was set up until they reached 25 to have some kind of different dispersion, right? So like when they're minors, it was set up until they reached 25 to have some kind of different dispersion. So, like when they're miners, it was to be managed and in order to qualify for a disbursement at 25 in the trust, they would have to have done this, this and this, be walking with God and actively. In other words, we don't want to fund a cocaine habit on the back of a yacht for a reality star. That's not what we don't want to fund a cocaine habit on the back of a yacht for a reality star. That's not what we want this money to go for. And so if you're going to do that,

then you don't qualify anymore into the trust, right? But is there a limit that you'd give a 25 year old? Um, I, I, no, I didn't. I, I had it, at 25 we turned it all over to him. Oh, wow. It's um, I mean, no, we haven't turned it over because I'm alive. I know, but I'm saying you won't have. And mine are now, the youngest is 33. But today, if I die, it's just dispersed. But if any one of them decides to live a life that disqualifies them as a manager of God's money, then they're not gonna be able to get any. They're taken out of the trust immediately.

And so, because it's not really my money, and it is not really their money, we are managing it. One of the beauties of managing it is you get to enjoy some of it, but most of the managing of it is a weight of generosity and a weight of other things. So what I want you to avoid, Mark, is this. There is a thread that runs through some of our Christian churches that says that money is bad Money is not bad. It's not good or bad. It's it's a moral It doesn't have morals what it does is it exposes the morals and character of the people that it touches?

That makes sense absolutely so our job as parents is to raise children that become qualified stewards. Meaning they're... They're gone. Yeah, and then I leave it to them and I don't think anything about it. Because I am well aware that the temple was built by Solomon atop Mount Moriah in Jerusalem. And in today's dollars it would be somewhere around between 10 and 20 billion dollar building. It was not built

with Solomon's money, it was built with his dad's money. It was inherited money, David's money. Solomon's David's son. It was inherited money used to build the temple of God. And so, you know, we're sure that God uses families that have character generationally to manage his goods. So it's not unchristian to do this. What you don't want to do is leave it to someone who it does harm to because they've got a problem in their life and it expands the problem.

Well, I think too we're used to seeing it's almost like we're filtering it through. Oh, you see a lottery winner they win a bunch of money they have this huge amount of money that comes into their life or an athlete who has this huge amount of money come into their life and before you know it they've... And I've sat with those guys in NFL many, many times. And what I'm dealing with is a 21 year old who has one skill. In all of his life skill buckets, he has one bucket.

He plays football. He doesn't know how to do anything else. And that is exposed when he gets a $10 million signing bonus. And he loses it almost instantaneously. 3.8 years is the average NFL career and most people leave the NFL broke. Hmm, the exception would be mainly the offensive line because generally those are the smartest guys on the team.

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Hey guys, our two night virtual event, Investing Essentials is almost here. There's a lot of confusion out there about building wealth. So George Campbell and I are breaking it down and teaching you how to invest with confidence. You'll learn how to maximize your 401k and mutual funds. Plus I'll be sharing my personal playbook for real estate. But hurry, time's running out. Investing Essentials is March 4th and 5th. Tickets start at $199.

Grab yours today at ramsysolutions.com slash events. If you're not a math nerd, if you're a normal person, when you start thinking about investing... investing... sounds intimidating, doesn't it? Hard to figure out. I think I'm gonna do this wrong. I'm scared. Well, you know, the same thing is true when you haven't ever driven a car when you're 12 years old, but they teach you to drive a car

a little bit at a time, and as your knowledge increases, your competency increases, and we let you leave the parking lot of the church where you were practicing. Right? And that's where we taught our kids to drive a car, in the parking lot of the Baptist Church, right? And even change gears on a straight shift so that they can actually function in this world.

You know, you need to be able to drive. Yes, investing. It's the same thing. So George Campbell and I are going to do a two-night event, two hours plus each night. Not the same double. It's two full nights of investing essentials. It's a virtual event. It's next week, March 4th and 5th. Tickets start at $199. The first night we're going to cover some basics on investing and then go deep on miscellaneous investing like, for instance, mutual funds and that kind of thing. We're going to lay some principles in place, teach you so that you feel confident and competent

when the word comes up, you yawn and go forward, right? Instead of freak out. And the second night, I'm going to unpack my personal real estate playbook, stuff I've never taught but one other time, and that was at this same event this time last year. And I'm going to spend about two hours on real estate. I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate. I've got a degree in finance and real estate, multiple other letters and licenses after my name in that business. I grew up in the real estate business. I love real estate. I'm a real estate nerd. And so those of you that want to learn how to do real estate investing

properly, it's going to blow your mind for some of you that have been on TikTok, but I'm going to show you the right way to do it by somebody that really did it, not lives in their mother's basement with an opinion. So have at it. You can join us. So it's March 4th and 5th. You'll want to be through both nights because they tie together, but it is standalone, complete information, and it's the only place you're ever going to get it.

So we'd love to have you. George Campbell has really got some amazing stuff he's put together for this. I'm so excited. Get your tickets at ramsesolutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes on the podcast and the YouTube. Raleigh's with us in Seattle, Washington. Hi Raleigh, how are you? I'm doing well Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Good, good. I am so so excited to talk to you guys I recently got married three months ago yeah my beautiful beautiful wife and we found out what four days ago now that we're expecting our first child that is

awesomeness way cool we're super excited and and scared to death too. That's great. Oh yeah it's both crazy emotions right now. Anyway and my mother-in-law loves to listen to your show and I've listened to your show for a couple years now so that's how she's gonna find out. We're gonna listen to the show together and it'll be awesome. We just did an on-air baby announcement to mother-in-law. That's so cool! Thank you for that honor. Thank you for that honor. Yeah, yeah thanks for letting me. My question involves health insurance. I want to get my wife health insurance as soon as I can and I just don't know anything about it so I wanted to know what you think. Is it through your

employer? Does your employer offer it does hers offer it or is this? You guys just out market on your own Yep, we're kind of on our own looking for options Okay. Well, um we have an endorsement on health trust financial and They will help you find a person in your area that will sit down with you and go over And they will help you find a person in your area that will sit down with you and go over the options that are available on the marketplace from Blue Cross Blue Shield to all kinds of

other things. And they're going to help you shop around and find, you know, customize and build a thing just for you. But in the process of that, Raleigh, it's just like anything else we teach here. You don't do what someone says to do, you learn from them and you make the decision so their job as the health trust rep sits down with you is to teach you and say okay here's three options we think option number three is the best one

better than one and two and here's why and they teach you and you understand that and based on that you pick it you don't pick it because Dave Ramsey said or somebody Dave Ramsey since is you understand it okay I do now do the you all have any money saved yes we do yep how much we have about we have an emergency fund and we have about six thousand in house savings. How much is in your emergency fund? Ten thousand. Okay. Is everyone in the home healthy? Yes we are. Is anyone overweight or smoke? Nope. Okay. You're probably going to want to look at an HSA, a health savings account program. Okay. Okay. It's a very high deductible but a

much lower premium. Okay. Pay very little monthly but when you do have an event it's a lot more out of pocket. Okay. But if you're not using medical care, that's the reason I ask about health, if you're not using medical care very often the HSA is the least expensive way to keep good coverage in place because you're not blowing through the deductible and you're getting the benefit of the lower premium. That's probably what you're going to find out when they sit down with you, okay? Now I do not know she's pregnant, that's a quote, pre-existing condition and I do not

know what you're going to be able to do on labor and delivery for sure. If you can find coverage for normal labor and delivery it might be expensive since it's after the fact. Okay? And now a lot of policies will cover a complication in the birth of a child but not the actual normal labor and delivery cost. So if the child had, God forbid, something like a heart issue or something, and they did heart surgery or something like that, a policy might cover that, but it wouldn't cover the normal labor and delivery. So you need to learn about what it does cover and doesn't cover for the infant as you're

looking at the stuff. Now if it does not cover normal labor and delivery, here's a technique for you. And you're gonna, this is gonna be awesome. So when you go to the hospital to have a baby is the only time people want to go to a hospital. It's good PR for hospitals to deliver babies. They like it because it's the only time. Now every time, other time you're there, you're sick, right? So it's a positive experience. So hospitals love labor and delivery and so what you can do is

schedule an appointment with the hospital administrator that your OB is planning to use. Go sit down with them and say, our OB is suggesting this hospital we'd like to use it but it's depending on this conversation. Normal labor and delivery here is $15,000 or whatever your OB tells you okay. Mm-hmm. And we are willing to prepay in cash for the labor and delivery. This is if your insurance does not cover it okay. Okay. And, and, but we want a, we want a discount if we prepay in cash. Okay? So, A, they get cash they don't have to collect from you. B, it's a positive experience and they want you there. C, you're gonna go to a different hospital if they don't make a deal with you. Okay? You reserve your walkway power and you will probably get your labor and delivery 25 to 50 percent of

face value meaning they're gonna discount at 75 percent okay if you do what I just told you to do but because they don't this does they never get this request because almost all labor and delivery is covered by a policy and people do they just get full vote from the insurance company but if you go in there with cash and say I don't have insurance coverage for this. Now you may be able to get insurance coverage. If you do, just forget this whole conversation, okay? But if you don't, that's how you handle this

and you can get a serious bargain. That's good. On labor and delivery. There's hardly anything else you can do that on, but this is a positive experience. They want you there. They want you to come have a positive experience at their hospital so you remember them for later you to come have a positive experience at their hospital

So you remember them for later things. It's a pr move basically When I when I was shopping for insurance back in the day when I was pregnant I was looking at like dave said I was looking at high deductible plans so I could have the hsa And I cared about what the out-of-pocket max is because when you are having a kid you don't know all that may Arise and so just knowing and having that piece of saying, okay, I know that no matter what, when the rubber meets the road, this is my out of pocket max, my stop loss, that also helped me have some peace about it,

to make a choice. Most of your HSAs are gonna be in the $10,000 to $20,000 range. That's right. Out of pocket max. And so that's gonna, again, that's your deductible plus. That's right. But yeah, but your premiums could be as much as 50% off

doing that, so anyway, go to Health Trust Financial. You can find them on our website and sit down with the guys and they'll help you out with this. This is the Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down.

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business you love ebook and instant access to our hiring playbook so you can start transforming your business right now. Build a business you love the essential guide for every business owner like you that wants to grow yourself lead your team and scale your business. To reserve your copy go to ramsysolutions.com slash store ramsysolutions.com slash store. Jade Wachow, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by WhyRefi when the payment on your defaulted private student loan is as much as some mortgages, it's hard to get ahead. That's when YREFI can help. Refinancing to a low fixed rate loan built just for you.

Find out more at yrefi.com, that's the letter Y, W-R-Y-R-E-F-Y.com, slash Ramsey, might not be in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Ethan in South Carolina. He says, my wife and I are both 28 and just got married. I am an employee benefits consultant and she's a trauma nurse. Together we make about 200,000

before any commissions that I receive. We also are debt free. We have about 150,000 in investments, 30,000 in a money market account and are investing our 15% towards retirement. Very good. If I were your son How would you recommend buying a house? We have been waiting for interest rates and housing prices to drop but I always hear there's never a perfect time to buy is Now the time for us to jump in Yeah, Ethan, I think you're feeling the way

a lot of people are feeling that are in your shoes, right? They're saying, okay, these interest rates are high, should I wait? Like truthfully, I have the money or I could start to save up more money, but I don't know is now the right time. And I would say the right time to buy a house is when you can afford it.

Like not based on the market, not based on interest rates, otherwise you're trying to like play a timing game. But if you can afford to save the down payment and you can afford to get a mortgage where the payment is no more than 25% of your take home pay all in, then get the house. And later on, if mortgage rates go down, you can always refinance, right?

Like there's, you have options, you don't have to stay in that high interest rate. So for you guys, I think this is great. You have a great income. It sounds like you've got your three to six months of expenses. You are investing. Yeah, you're doing really, really well at this point. I would start saving up because it sounds like the 30,000 you have in the money market is your emergency fund.

And you should not use your emergency fund as a down payment. So I just want to make that clear. You've got $150,000 in investments unless that's returnment, you can use that. Yeah, that's a good point, Dave. It doesn't say, but if that $150,000 is in like stocks or just kind of like a brokerage sitting there, you could definitely use that and I would. Yeah. Okay.

Interest rates are going to do what they're going to do. We don't know. House prices are not coming down. We do know that. There's a serious shortage of housing. There are more buyers than sellers, and there's no fix on the horizon for that. That's called a supply-demand pressure. It's seventh-grade economics. When there is a shortage of anything, the price holds steady or goes up. It does not go down. And interest rates don't cause it to go down. So interest rates have been up for about 18 months and house prices have not gone down. Okay, so that's simple. The median house price is exactly what it was 12

months ago. It's 400,000 nationally and it's not going anywhere. So that's what you're seeing. So don't wait on house prices to come down. So marry the house and date the rate. You can refinance your interest rates if they go down or pay them off and have a zero interest rate that'd be cool. But um... And if you want to get a pulse on what's going on in the market and you want to start learning more and leaning into that that process and learning, you should visit our real estate home base because you can go on there and I mean it's just chock full of all the information that you're going to need to kind of see what's going on, learn about areas that you don't feel as confident in and ultimately get set up with one of our Ramsey

trusted real estate agents that can help you through the entire process. So that's what I would do if I were in your shoes or if you were my son, which is... Yeah. Perspective is the thing. So I'm old. So I've been walking around in the middle of the stock market thing for 40 plus years. I've been walking around this real estate thing for 40 plus years. And let me tell you, every year, I've been on the air for over 30 years talking

about this. Every year someone says, oh the stock market's artificially high, it has to come down. What goes up must come down. Hadn't done it. Went down a little bit here and there but came back up more and it went down. Can you imagine if you had invested 32 years ago in a growth stock mutual fund how much that would have gone up oh and let me help you with this 1978 I saw my first house for forty two thousand five hundred dollars as a real estate broker

I was 18 years old can you imagine if you owned that house from 1978 that that guy paid forty two thousand five hundred. You understand that's an $800,000 house now. But they have to come down. No, they don't. Nope, they don't. And they never have. There's no historic data that indicates that. So, date the rate, marry the house, get a house bought when you have the money and if rates come down and you can get a cheaper rate than 5% which is so freaking high. I don't know how you people are surviving with the 5% interest rate. I love when you talk about the 80s rates. Oh geez man, it's whining about 5% but anyway yeah it's because it's compared to 3 instead of compared to twelve. If it was twelve and it went down

to five everybody be celebrating there'd be Mardi Gras on the streets but instead it went from three to six and down to five and everybody's oh god we're dying! Yeah okay so you better get a house because the next round of real estate prospering these houses are gonna shoot up again so you're ready to get a house go get one. Guido's with us in Albany, New York. Hey Guido, what's up? Pleasure to speak with you. My situation is wife and I have no debt. I'm retired, I'm 65, she will be 69 next month. She still works in a scientific position. She makes 72k she gets her full social security which is about 18 five banks that we don't have core

payments she bought a car April of last year financed it briefly at 1.9 paid it off last month okay what's your question? All right. I am constantly barraged by family members trying to find out what my Retirement income is why like why why does it they think their business? I'm sad what I I don't know. Is it your kids? No, we have no kids. We have no kids.

Brothers, cousins. Are they vultures? I guess they are. Neighbors across the street. Friends. It's nobody's business. You know, it's strange. I never have anybody ask my income.

Is there a way to put this to bed? I mean, I keep hearing I have several cards. I have a lot of cards. I have a lot of cards. I have a lot of cards. I have a lot of cards. I have a lot of cards. I have a lot of cards. I have a lot of cards. I have a lot of cards. I have a lot of cards. I have a ask my uncle. Uh, is there a way to put this to bed? I mean,

I keep hearing I have several cards, some from the seventies, eighties. I'm like, you know, I like cold cars. I like to work on my cars. Some are pretty. Some are not. I hear you want to get rid of all those old cars, go out and lease leasease never going to happen. I don't need to impress anyone. The only person I need to impress, I see every time I shave. I worked in Europe for a while. I think Guido, I think that's just what you say. I mean, I just think you say,

Hey, I appreciate the advice and all, but what I'm doing seems to be working for me and if that works for you you can do that for you and if they ask about your income I just say you know that's personal business I don't disclose that. The only debt we have okay is the mortgage which is about 93 we have 10 years to go on a 50 at 2.8 percent. For somebody that doesn't like to talk about your income, you give out your information a lot. Maybe you're talking about it with them too much. We know it's an alias. I suspected. Yes, yes. And by the way, I did not spend my formative

years in this country, neither did wife. But that's okay. All right. I think the thing is this, I think you've got a wonderful story and a wonderful situation and people wish they were you. They wanna know how you did it. They wanna know how you did it.

And you would, you know, I would just say, you know, we don't disclose our personal details. I will tell you that we live on less than we make and we're very frugal and very careful and it has paid off for us over the years and God has blessed us and we've been able to get some nice things and I don't depend on Social Security I don't disclose my personal income I don't think to anyone my my wife knows and my tax guy knows yeah our CFO CFO here knows, but I don't.

And if anybody asked, I would just gently say, oh, you're kidding. I don't talk about that kind of stuff. Would you say it gently, Dave? I would. And then the third time I'd say, none-ya. None-ya. None-ya, dad gum business.

This is the Ramsey Show. People ask me all the time, George, what's your number one money saving hack? I'm glad you asked. Nothing makes me happier than helping another frugal friend. So here's the hack. Get on a budget. Seriously, how are you supposed to save money if you don't know how much you're spending in the first place? And that's what makes the Every Dollar budgeting app

a game changer. With Every Dollar, you'll get a clear picture of your spending. And from there, it's easy to see where you can get more intentional, cut back, and save more money. So how much money are we talking here? Well, the average every dollar budgeter frees up $395 in their first budget. That's the hack. And if you ask me, I think you're way above average and you'll save even more. So what are you doing still listening to me? Go download the Every Dollar app for free and start saving more money right now. Well this is the last segment that is on podcast and YouTube you can get the rest of this show

on the Ramsey Network app and that gives you video audio and all kinds of searchable stuff so you can not not have to listen through fifteen hours to get the call you want. If you want to call on a certain subject you can just put it in the Ramsey Network app you can email us in the Ramsey Network app it's all completely free so download and use the Ramsey Network app and we'll get you all of this show every day Madeline is with us in Indianapolis hi Madeline welcome to the Ramsey show hi thank you so. I was actually just calling because I currently live with my boyfriend at his parents house. We've lived here for about two years and we are getting engaged

this year and we're running out. Obviously we don't want to be engaged or even married living here. We've been doing the snowball effect for a little bit, but it's still in the process. How old are you? I am 23. Okay. All right. Because your sweet little voice, you sound like you're 12. I wasn't sure. Okay. Well, thank you. Okay. So we don't have debt because we aren't married. Who has debt?

You or him? I have just debt from my car. It's about, for me to completely pay it off, it's about $27,000. He has debt from his vehicle and debt from credit card bills from starting his business. And are you both working? We are, yes. How much do you make? business. And are you both working? We are. Yes. How much do you make?

Yeah. What do you all make? I make 30,000. I work at a bank that I'm, I'm interviewing to move up. So hopefully making more soon and he, it fluctuates with him just because he owns a contracting business, but it's normally, I would say a year, like 60 to 70 thousand. So why are you guys living?

I mean. Why aren't you married making a hundred thousand dollars a year at 23 and pay these debts off? We haven't gotten married yet just because everybody around us have told us that we're kind of young so to wait. What? Okay. Well you're acting like you're married so what are we waiting on? What's the difference in your mind? Yeah. Because your actions aren't

showing difference. Yeah because your actions aren't showing differences. Everybody around you includes his parents who don't want you all to get married huh? They've kind of told us to wait a little bit. Just his brother got married last year, so we were kind of trying to give him his moment and waiting, but he doesn't want to wait any longer and neither do I. I would suggest you all get married this weekend and move out next weekend.

We actually have an opportunity to move into a cabin on his grandpa's land. have an opportunity to move into a cabin on his grandpa's land when we it is fifteen thousand dollars that we have calculated to renovate it so we know you're broke you don't need to be renovating someone else's cab I can't you just get an apartment like everybody else you don't have any money and you're broke actually have we have donkeys so we are not able to move into an apartment because we have donkeys that we have in our backyard. Why?

Where did those come from and what are you using them for? We actually breed them to sell the baby donkeys, but we had to get rid of a lot, um, a lot of them because we couldn't afford it. I can't believe I'm asking this question. How many donkeys do you have? We only have two right now. And what are they worth? And what are they worth? Um, the female is probably worth a thousand and the male is probably close to 1100. Perfect. Okay.

So I'm going to tell you what I would tell my daughter if she was 23 and she called up and was in this situation. I can't imagine that happening, but let's say she did, okay? I would say sell two donkeys, get married, and move out within the next three weeks into an inexpensive apartment. You have a hundred thousand dollar a year income, clean up this mess of debt that you have, and then start saving to buy a nice property and a piece of ground later and restart your donkey business later. If that's your dream. I suspect your dream is going to change about the time children start coming.

Yeah, 100%. Yes, we- We don't revolve our major life decisions around donkeys in the backyard. That is a good principle of life Dave. Yes. Oh boy. Oh this is great. This is so fabulous. Madeline you're a sweet girl. Yeah. But I think you're listening to everybody else except the two of you and I think you and your husband and me need to move out and get you an apartment and get married

right now. And then you need to clean up your debt mess. And if the donkeys are keeping you from doing that, then we need to get rid of the donkeys. And that's not a metaphor. That's an actual fact. That's a fact. William is in Harrisburg. Hey William, what's up in Pennsylvania? Hi, everything's doing very well, thank you.

I'm glad. How can I help? Mr. Ramsey, first, thank you. I hooked into you about 15 years ago and you've changed my life. Oh, I didn't change it, You did. I'm proud of you. Well, because of your input. Well, thank you, sir. I have about $100,000 that I need to put into my house because of water abatement and mold. It's been going on a while. We've been in the house for 30 years and I've just been putting it off and putting it off. Yeah, that's what I mean. It's been going on a while. Man. Okay. Yeah. So I have about 800,000 in retirement, a mixture of Roth IRAs and traditional IRAs. How old are

you? I am 67 years old. Okay. Retired. How many bids have you gotten on the work? Say again? How many bids have you gotten on this work? About three or four of them. Okay, so you got a good average. You know that a hundred thousand is an accurate number. It's not one guy sticking you. Correct. Oh good. Correct. Not your first ride on the cabbage truck. Okay. Good. Okay. Yep. So is it simple? Simple answer to take a hundred of your 800 and fix your house. Okay. Not do a homemaker. No, we're not borrowing money when we have 800 grand in the bank. And here's the reason I asked,

I have a pension and social security that puts me at about 85,000. Yeah. So if I, so if I take a hundred thousand out of my retirement, I'm going to have to pay 30% tax on much of that. Yeah. That's right. Still pay the 30% tax.

Absolutely. I'm not going in debt. Not when you're a millionaire and you're a millionaire. No. I appreciate it. Easy enough. That's easy, man. That's a good question. Well done. Good question, sir, and good answer. Open phones, 828-525-225. Another way of asking yourself these questions, like William's asking, is always reverse engineer it, folks.

That's true. And say, if I had $700,000 in my retirement account, would I go borrow $100,000 to have $800,000 in? No, I wouldn't. Same thing. The thing that's throwing him is he doesn't want to pay the tax well Why do people feel I am any if he has traditionally as required minimum distributions coming up 72 and a half anyway That's right. That's right around the corner, so he's gonna have to begin to pull this money down anyway I think people think when they roll money into their house

They won't feel it as debt like it's almost like in their mind It doesn't count as dead take a a HELOC and do this 100,000. So yeah, your Williams, he's a saver. He is, good job. Another way of saying it is he's a cheapskate. He didn't fix a mold issue that got worse while he's sitting on 800 grand. Yeah, yeah. Dude, go fix your house.

Type one syndrome. Yeah, this is really what you've, you've been saving too harshly here, brother. Yeah, that's good, very, very good. So Jade? Do you wanna talk about the donkeys? I'm still trying to get my emotions around that one. Yeah.

I didn't completely lose it on the air. That's pretty good. Laughing. I was close. I thought you were gonna have to phone a friend and see if George would say to sell the donkeys. Oh, George, I forgot it. We should have brought in, channeled our inner George.

I know, where is he when we need him? So the horse people were after George, now the donkey people will be after me. How do you get into? For making fun of the donkeys and saying sell the donkeys. Yeah, I don't even know how you get into, how that becomes your dream in life. What set of parents lets the girlfriend move in with their son and

Bring the donkeys That's over the top Mom I'm bringing a girl home and a couple of donkeys Here's the room upstairs You're not my child. Oh man. I wouldn't have survived. I'm bringing the donkeys. Yeah.

If we could make up these calls that were this good, we'd make them up. But instead we just take calls from normal people. This is the Ramsey Show. The right questions are the key to unlock personal and professional potential. That means if you're not where you want to be, you are not asking the right questions. I'm Ken Coleman, and this is what my new show, Front Row Seat, is all about. Over my career, I've had the distinct privilege

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