The Ramsey Show - Quit Letting Your Money Boss You Around and Tell IT What To Do!

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

📱Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. Jade Warshaw & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: "I'm in an abusive relationship, how do I get out?" "My mother-in-law wants us to build an addition," "My wife never sticks to the budget we agree on," "Should I continue to stay in a 'silent divorce?'" Support Our Sponsors: Zander Insurance: Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282 for a fast and easy quote today. Churchill Mortgage: Get started at ChurchillMortgage.com Health Trust Financial: Discover Top Health Insurance Plans, All in One Place. BetterHelp: betterhelp.com/Delony to get 10% off your first month   Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 📈 For help with investing, get connected with a SmartVestor Pro. 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🏠 How to Buy a Home Course 💸Enter The Ramsey Cash Giveaway for a chance to win $10,000! 📚 Shop the $12 Sale to get life-changing tools to help you make real progress! (including the NEW 2025 Ramsey Goal Planner) Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of SmartVestor Pros. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls. We're talking about your life and your money. We're helping people build wealth, do work that they love, and have amazing relationships. This is a live show. You can give us a call if you want to call in. The number is 888-825-5225.

And we'll try and get you on the line and try to hook you up with the advice that you need. All right, John, you ready to do this? Let's go. Let's go straight to the phone lines. We've got Jodi in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. What up, Jodi? Hi, how are you? Doing great. How can we help today? Hi. Well, I can't believe I called in and doing this. But

anyways, I am in a very emotionally abusive, emotionally and financially abusive relationship. I've been with him for 18 years. We have a nine-year-old daughter and I need out. And I start trying to figure out plans and I like, we'll research this and research that. And then I'll put this in order. And then I become this paralyzed whirlpool of, you know what I'm saying like I could probably help other people but my brain and I'm just emotionally exhausted too so I don't think that helps um what happened Jodi something happened that said you said this is enough what happened um you know I think I have a blood clotting disorder and I had a blood clot at the beginning of the summer, a deep vein blood clot in my leg. And they are incredibly painful.

Also, potentially life threatening. I've had a couple of ones. I had one in my pelvis after my pregnancy that came close to damaging my heart. I had some in my lungs, things like that. So it's a really serious thing. And I am sitting on the recliner and he comes home from work and starts screaming at me to get off my lazy butt that I'm on his chair and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I mean, that's just one example. And I mean, my daughter and I are both staring at him and I said, I don't know why you think you can talk to me like that. And I mean, you know, like it's a big deal.

My blood clot is a big deal. And I just I've been done before and then things happened and I allowed my plans to become derailed and everything like that. And so I've been trying to- Okay, do me a favor right now, Jodi. Uh-huh. Where is all of this in your body? Is it in your chest? It is. Okay. Take your fist and put it in your chest right now. Uh-huh. Take a humongous deep breath, real big, and then exhale it out. Drop your shoulders as low as you can go pull them down okay okay and here's why we're doing this exercise this is what happens inside your mind too

yeah when you start researching stuff isn't it it spins faster and faster and faster and faster yes and then it feels chaotic and then your daughter comes in and says hey can you help me with my lunch tomorrow and then you're off to the next thing. And this thing never resolves itself and it just spins faster and it's heavier and heavier. Yes. The only way I've learned, and I'm like you, I get pretty emotional, got a heart. I don't have anything like what you're dealing with at home, but when I get emotional, I spin and I go faster and faster and faster. And the only way I've learned to be able to walk through those things is with other people.

I have been gathering my friends and family. I've kind of explained where I'm at. But listen to me. You're doing a lot of, you're using other people and you're using your internet searches as Xanax. Yes. You need to find somebody. I want a practical plan.

You need to sit with a lawyer that you're paying, that you are on the clock with, because that will force you to laser in and say, what do you want to do next? Otherwise you just have a bunch of people that you talk to and talk to and talk to and talk to and talk to. And you've got, you've got to have a, you've got to have a gang. You've got to have people that will talk to and talk to and talk to and talk to and talk to. And you've got to have a gang. You've got to have people that will listen to you and that will sit with you and will show up with casseroles.

But you need to have somebody who will say, here's what happens if you do A, here's what happens with B. And someone that will walk you through step by step, here is legally and practically what happens next. And there'll be financial ramifications. There will be custody ramifications. There will be all sorts of ramifications. Yeah. But I want you to stop spinning and sit with somebody. And by the way, some attorneys aren't people of character and they'll take your money. They'll let you spend all day long and they'll just put you on the clock. Most of the ones I've ever met with care deeply about their clients and they will say, okay, if you're hiring me to go to war, let's go to war.

Yeah. So I'm going to ask you, what's your next move? I will, well, lawyer, retainer. I have a friend who said that she would help me get the money. I have no money. I have nothing. Well, that's my next question is what does this mean for you? Because you got to eat. Yes. And I, um, met with an employment specialist. Um, I had gotten a therapist, um, and a psychiatrist, um, because I was depressed

and I, um, was undiagnosed ADHD for many years. And, um, so, you know, and tell me about your job. Oh, she's so awesome. But, but this is, this is why I need to go. This is taking its toll on her. And as he was sitting there yelling at me, I'm like, I don't want her to think that I'm sorry. Tell me about your job, not your child. Tell me about your job. What are you going to do for money? If you leave, how are you going to eat and where are you going to live? I told the employment specialist we're meeting next week to help me with my resume. And I, my heart is in the nonprofit world. However, I told them that my first priority is to make enough money for me to be able to live on my own and support my daughter. Have you ever done that before? to live on my own and support my daughter. There you go. Have you ever done that before?

Lived on my own, yes. Okay. Then you can do it again. Well, kind of, as a student, yes. Okay. I know I can do this. That's the thing. Like, I know that I can do this.

I keep tripping myself up. I know I'm worth more, and more than anything, and the reason I'm willing to accept help from my friends and family financially is that I owe my daughter more. And part of the reason that I've been also kind of not putting it off is I know he's going to make it so ugly. And I know he's going to drag her in it but I tell myself he's already dragged her in it and I've allowed it and in leaving him I think I hope that that means I'm not dragging her in it I'm dragging her out of it and if he continues to drag her in it I will just have to do my best to so let's let's solve that let's solve that problem when we get

there let's do the next right thing in front of us. And Jade's going to walk you through the four walls. But these are the things I want you to put on a list. I want you to sit down with a trusted friend or a couple friend that you trust that you can walk through what this actually means. Because these have to be real numbers. They can't be feelings and thoughts. They have to be real numbers. And I want you to sit with an attorney. And if you need to leave and go stay with somebody because your home's not safe, then do that right now, like today. Physically, I'm safe. I am physically safe. I really do believe that, but not mentally. Okay. Yeah. You know, when you get,

when you make that leap and you, you know, walk out of this thing, the thing that you're going to have to focus on first is just making sure that you can pay for your shelter. Like you've got to find a place that you can live, that you can afford. After that, it's utilities. After that, it's food. After that, it's transportation because you need to be able to get to work and back. And so those four things, before you get off the line today, we're going to get you set up with every dollar and totally for free so that you can use that. You can start budgeting. You can start looking at what your life is gonna look like financially. I think that you making this choice,

I know you said you were worried about dragging your daughter through it, but she's also gonna see something really great of a woman who says, I'm not gonna be treated like this. And I get to decide, and she's gonna take that and carry that with her, and it's gonna mean a lot for her. So, ooh, tough stuff.

Good job, John. We're blessed. We're praying for you. This is a Ram for her. So, ooh, tough stuff. Good job, John. We're blessed. We're praying for you. Call us back anytime. These days, it's not if your identity gets stolen, it's when. And the only ID theft protection plan I have ever recommended is from Zander Insurance. It helps real people with real life situations. Like the call we got on the show recently where a woman's abusive ex opened a credit card in her name and racked up over $8,000 in debt. Then the bank sued her, even though the charges weren't hers.

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Missouri. What's going on, Natasha? Hi, guys. How are you? Good. What do you think about the band name Wacky Wavy? Oh, I don't know. I'm probably not the right person to ask. That means we're on to something. I'm not a musician. I'm not a musician. I don't know. Well, how can we help you today?

Well, so I just wanted to, I listen to the show all the time. Long time worst litter, first time caller. So my husband and I have several rental properties. And a couple of years ago, we bought a property with the idea that his mom, who is in the midst of a divorce, could live in that house. And obviously we didn't want to dictate anything for her, but she's been living there and she, I think, would like to stay, which we're totally fine with. But she has approached us about maybe putting an addition on the house. And I think it's fine. We desperately want her to be happy and, you know, we want it to be a blessing to her. But we've never had a business partner in any of our, like, rental properties properties and so i feel

a little bit weird with the idea of her paying for some portion even though i know she's living in the house so i just wanted to make sure like i'd love to just like give her the green light we really would be tickled honestly if she it's a blessing to her and she stays forever as far as we're concerned but is there anything i'm not thinking of yeah you know that i should i mean listen i love your heart on this i think that you love your mother-in-law you want you know to her to feel like the place is hers um it's not hers it's yours um is she paying you rent or do you let her live there rent free no no she's not paying us rent i mean we did we we vetted at the property as a rental with the idea that if she didn't like it we would rent it out okay you have other rental properties that's part of

our portfolio so you're just using the other properties to to float this one or is it paid for in cash so we will have this property paid off by the end of next year. And we have one other, we have, we have a total left of mortgages between our three, between three of two are paid off. Great. Five total properties. So they'll all be paid off in the next probably three and a half years. So then back to this idea of the addition on the house.

Um, I think because here's where I think, I think if you let her pay for this, um, and something happens because no, you know, nobody knows what's around the corner, right? There's going to be some feeling that it's her house and I put this money into the addition and it just feels like it could get very messy very quickly. Even if you put it in writing, which if you decide to do this, definitely put it in writing the amount that she's putting into it what would happen if the house were to sell or if she were to move how does she get her money back that sort of thing um but more than that

you want to know what i would just do it's your house if you want an addition on it just put an addition on it that's what i would do that's what i was wondering should we just pay for it i would and it's not worth your relationship with your mother-in-law because here's what I was wondering. Should we just pay for it? I would. It's not worth your relationship with your mother-in-law. Because here's what's going to happen. By the way, what's this addition for? So it's a cute little starter house. But I think she'd like a house that has more room for her grandkids to be over. And honestly, it's in a great neighborhood.

We bought a little house with plenty of room. A lot of people in the area have done additions so i think there's plenty of upside financially to doing the addition but i did i have like this little bit of angst like should we just pay for it yeah because you're gonna pull out you're gonna pull out the back wall and you're gonna find a ton of damage exactly nicer kitchen and then she would like she wants the washer dryer upstairs so when she gets older it's not an issue which i totally yeah it makes sense what about just moving her to one of these other houses i was gonna ask that same thing so the other properties that we have we did offer to her initially when we when she was moving and she wasn't keen that's somebody

they're all stairs they all have okay so this is the only this one is a single family nice little ranch what's it going to cost you a great neighborhood to do the addition we haven't even looked but i'm guessing i would i would guess we wouldn't pay more than like a hundred do you have cash it's a it's a two hundred thousand well we won't do it if we don't have cash. I love how you said that. You're like, listen. I would not take her money. I would keep this clean. This is y'all's place.

It's in our trust. And we're in a really good financial spot. I mean, we're worth several million dollars now. Yeah, you are. Good job. If y'all feel like you want to do this, I would pay for it. I would not take her money, and I would tell her, hey, thank you so much for offering, but I want you to, we

want you to live to be 125, and so we want to make sure you can afford all the way down, and we've been blessed, and we can do this. It just keeps everything so clean, and it's not you I'm worried about. It's not your husband. It's not her. It's your brother-in-law who has a gambling debt that you don't know about that turns to sue just we would not have a job if every family acted like you and your husband and your mother-in-law yeah it always goes sideways and if every contractor was honest

and no trees fell through houses and so i would just keep the lines as clean as possible or deed her the house give it to her and say, this is Merry Christmas. And just make sure you put it in your will that we get it back and do that. Give it away to her. That's pretty cool. Oh, that's an idea. I'd keep the lines as clean as possible. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, we've never had business partners or anything for that reason. I wouldn't. Even when people call and they've done all the paperwork and they've written it the right way there's still something that causes a saltiness or an animosity and that's why I said before even if you were to do all of that it still doesn't make up for the the feelings that ensue after the fact and so I'm with John I would either pay and have this addition put on with your own $100,000 cash,

or I would Dieter the house and say, hey, really, this is our gift to you. Whatever changes you wanna make, it's yours free and clear. I like that idea. You guys have done really, really well. And this is the stuff that we talk about. You live like no one else later, you're able to give like no one else.

And this is giving on a whole another level yeah and i just don't want to see next christmas there's a lot of tension because she's doing something to your house with money she doesn't have oh man just don't keep the lines clean because you love each other yeah i like that this is the ramsey show buying your first home is a big deal and sets the stage for your financial success. So work with a mortgage advisor you trust, not just some random website.

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1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. What's going on? You're listening to The Ramsey Show. My name is Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. If you don't know, now you know. You guys need to know about Dr. John.

John, tell them about yourself. My name's John. My friends call me John. Yeah, dude, my friends call me John. My wife calls me John. Does anybody call you Johnny? My kids call me old man. No.

I wanted to be Johnny because I cried a kid, but never stuck. Is it short for Jonathan? Nope. I think they were going to call me Jonathan, and my mom said when I was born, I just look like a John. So she just John called it. All right. I like it.

All right. She called it. Well, he's the guy that's going to take the calls about your relationships. If you're dealing with things going on in that side of things, mental health world, wellness world, he's got you covered. I'm here for the money side. So if you want to call us, the number is 888-825-5225. If you didn't know, it's a live show. And so we'll get you covered. I'm here for the money side. So if you want to call us, the number is 888-825-5225. If you didn't know, it's a live show. And so we'll get you on. Let's go to the phone lines. Oh,

before we do, let me just say, John and I have jobs because of you guys. So we're really grateful that you listen to the show, that you listen on podcasts, that you log in on YouTube, that you pull it up, you know, you turn the radio dial, some of you, and you listen to us on the radio. And we're really grateful for that. So if you could do us a solid here and wherever you listen to the show, like it, subscribe and share. If you can do those three things, it'll cost you like two seconds of your time. And we'd be so grateful because when you do that, not only does it share the show with other people, but it makes the show more accessible uh the way the internet works and the way all these things

work together so that would help us a lot we know that you already do it keep doing it is what i'm trying to say all right let's go to the phone lines we've got nick in chicago illinois shy town what's going on nick hi i was just calling because um my wife and I are trying to save for a house and I've talked to her about having a budget and for some reason she says that we can stick to a budget and I have just used my notes app on my phone and talked about it with her but it seems like it's like $10 here, $20 here here fifty dollars here and it adds up and i don't think she really realizes it so i'm just calling to like ask um how i can like talk to talk to her about it in a way where like she can get on board and then like how she can

like stick to the budget that i'm wanting to stick to? So there could be two things at play. It could be that the budget is not quite realistic enough. It could be. I don't know. I always say that budgets should be three things, detailed, realistic, and flexible. So just that first pass here, there's part of me that thinks

it's probably not hitting the mark in one or more of those areas. Did you tell me that you're using the notes app to budget or you're using the notes app to decide what to say to her? No, we've just written down like all of our expenses and then like all of our, how much we make and then all of our expenses per month. Okay. So that's another part of this, you know, having the right tool is what's going to make budgeting something that you can stick to and that you can do for the long haul. It makes it more enjoyable. It's really hard to stick to a budget that's written just in the notes app. I'm just going

to tell you that. So I think here, what we need here is the right set of tools and the right set of parameters and how to work the tool. So before you leave today, I'm going to get you set up with every dollar. It's the best budgeting app there is because on it, it's not a notes app. It's a really great app that you can have on your phone. It's on her phone. It's working with you in time. So if you make a purchase on your phone, she sees it on her phone.

And it's something as simple as, hey, I'm going to the grocery store. I just need to see how much we can spend. And you open up the app and it says $300. And you're like, great. And then when you make that purchase at the grocery store, you spent $50. It automatically goes into the app. And now you can see now I only have $250 left to spend. So it's going to do that math for you. And it's going to keep you guys on top of your numbers. I think that's going to go a really, really long way. And then it's going to do that math for you and it's going to keep you guys on top of your numbers. I think that's going to go a really, really long way. And then it's going to help you to see, OK, the numbers that we said, are they accurate? Like, does this actually work with our life? Because it's possible, Nick, that she's going over budget because what you've said is just not a realistic amount.

Could I be right about that or? Yeah, possibly. I just feel like just her knowing how much is left or how much is in the budget to go out to eat and stuff like that. We have a budget for that, but I feel like it always goes over. But it's also a notes app, so you're constantly like, it's almost like an old school ledger that you're having to yeah no i guess you mean like the app or whatever you're talking about i feel like seems like something a lot more practical do y'all do this budget together or do you sit down and say yeah i sat down originally and wrote it yeah you did we sat down together yeah and looked at it together

and went over it together and agreed like hey this is not right this is right and then we should change a few things but that didn't seem to work how long have you been doing that um six months okay i give every dollar a try and see if it helps next thing i want to know is the area that she's got the areas that she's going over is it the same areas every month yeah it's mostly just shopping and eating out so you're both eating out or only she's eating out or she'll um typically i'm like her lunch break from work she'll eat out okay so she's going out for lunch um and then what's the other area you said? Shopping, like for clothes? Shopping. Okay. So next question is, what baby step are you guys on?

We're debt free. And we're pretty much saving for a house. We don't have any debt. How much have you saved so far? What? How much have you saved so far for the house? $24,000. Okay, good. And what's the goal? We're trying to get it as high as possible, but our goal was originally $80,000. It hasn't really changed. The past four months, we haven't really made any progress on saving more. Okay.

Let me ask you this. I'm just trying to get to the core because I don't, I don't want to say anything that's not quite right. How long did it take you to pay off your debt and save up the three to six months before you started this? Most of it was done. Most of it was done by me before we had gotten married. So I feel I,

we didn't, she didn't have any debt. I paid off my debt before we got married. And okay. So she didn't have debt. She comes into this and it's like, we're in saving mode basically for the whole marriage. Okay.

Nick, you keep saying we, there's no, we here, you paid off debt. You, you keep saying we. There's no we here. You paid off debt. You built a budget. You want to buy a house. She wants to eat lunch with her friends and buy clothes. Yeah.

Can I also ask another probing question? She wants to buy a house. She tells me she's so passionate about it. She can't wait to do it. She wants to do it. Yeah, but behavior is a language. So she's being pretty clear about what she really believes. What is the clothing budget? What is the food out to eat budget? Like we've said, like for like eating out for her, we said once a week, go out and eat and i said like ten dollars a week once a week that's what

we agreed on so forty dollars yeah and then what's the close the forty dollars a month and what's the shopping i originally and then we had originally agreed on going once a month shopping with a fifty dollar budget of that okay and what's you guys' income combined? What's your combined income? $100,000. Okay. I think that she feels a little suffocated. She's like, we make $100,000 a year. I'm working.

He's working. I want to spend more than $40 on restaurants. And maybe I want to spend. So when she goes over shopping, I'm trying to meet in the middle because I'm not saying she's right. And I'm not saying you're wrong. When she goes over budget for clothes, how much does she go over? Like she's spending like $300 a month the last few months on clothes. Okay.

She's tripping a little bit. Let's be honest about that. So maybe it's, hey, I noticed you're going over $50. Isn't cutting it. Can we go to 150? Can we go to, can we go to 100? Try to meet her in the middle because what I think what I think could be happening and John you could pop in here but I think she's like we don't have any debt like we've got three to six months of savings I don't want to

feel so tight I want a house but I don't want to feel so so tight there that might be going on try to meet her halfway on that and um other than that it's you guys sitting down and having a big kids conversation about do we want a house or do we not want a house and maybe it's you rolling out the numbers and saying hey if we keep going at this rate we're not going to have a house until the year 2034 you know what i mean and it's just you being honest about what's actually going on and then you know see see where it goes from there. It's not easy. These conversations are not easy.

This is The Ramsey Show. You've worked, saved, sacrificed, and been gazelle intense with your financial game plan. But do you have the right defense in place, like the right health insurance? Look, you can't walk past a doctor's office these days without getting a massive bill. And if you don't have health insurance, a major medical situation can undo all of your hard work. That's where my friends at Health Trust Financial can help. They work for you, not the insurance company. So they find you the right health insurance, and they save you money.

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I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. We're taking your calls. And here's the thing. Sometimes you guys call. We have a number here that you can leave a message if you have a question or something you want to talk about. Sometimes people call and we miss the call. So if we missed your call, sorry we missed your call.

We'll get to it. Matter of fact, we have a voicemail here from Meredith. Let's take a listen. Scary to go from being on boot camps and Medicaid and all of that stuff to switching to paying for everything yourself. Not really sure how to change that. I know it's a mindset, but I'm not really sure how to get from point A to point B without hurting myself and my children drastically. Thank you. Bye. Wow. Okay. That's a deep one, John. Yeah. Like you said, it's a mindset. So I want to separate. I have a close friend of mine who right before she had child number three, husband left, was in desperate need of support and care. So I think I love that we can support and care. Right. So I think we're,

I love that we can support and care people who find themselves in the margins when life happens. Right. I get a different vibe from Meredith and I loved how she said it. She said it's a mindset and there can come a point when the world that we've set up for, for some of our, our, our citizens is, you know what you're never gonna be enough you just sit over there in the corner we're gonna pat you on the head and well somebody's gonna come take care of you because you can't do this yeah and over a long period of time you begin to believe you're less than yeah that you can't 100 and she i love this question she's asking because she's saying no i want to i want to stand up and i want to be i want to be in the driver's seat of my own life and it's terrifying because i've got this

sense everybody's been treating me for so long and i've been living this way i that i can't i don't know how i'll never know enough i'm just gonna hurt everybody i'm gonna screw everything up and y'all told me to go sit in the corner and pat me on the head y'all just y'all just send money in the mail and it's going to be all good. And so for someone to merit the situation, I think it's important to keep this one word and, and always keep this word front and center, which is practice.

I'm just going to practice. It's a skill that I don't have. I've never done this thing and I'm going to practice this and I have to practice. I've never had a high school kid. I have one right now. Just started. I'm having to practice being a high school dad because I've never done it before and I'm already not doing a great job at it, right? I've never been the dad of a third grader. I've never done that. I'm practicing a third grade daughter. I've never

done that. I'm practicing it. Similar, if you've never paid for anything, and often this generational poverty can be generational, right? Yeah. You learn that. You learn how to sign up, how to work the system. Somebody helps you out. I've never done it before. Okay, cool.

We're going to take baby steps. First thing we're going to do is we're going to learn how money works. We're going to watch these courses. We're going to get a job. Well, you've also not had the and on had had the opportunity to like stretch your legs on it because if you're in these if you're in these programs there's limits like hey if you if you earn beyond this you no longer get the crutch we cut you off and i'm thinking like follow me on this uh in college i played volleyball and i was a middle blocker and i went

up for a block and this crooked thumb snapped all the way back and I tore the ligaments all the way through and it was the most painful thing I've ever done even more painful than childbirth so I had this guard that I used to have to wear and after a while um the trainer was like hey you got to take that guard off and I was like oh I can't take the guard off like I'm gonna feel pain I don't know like it was it it was it made me so afraid to play the game i loved playing without this guard on because i was like for sure i'm gonna snap my ligaments again and then you find yourself going up with two hands but kind of like halfway yeah like halfway you're like oh you know you've got this and i'm like you're never gonna

know what you can do until you just up and do it you gotta stretch your legs you gotta play you gotta take the guard off and see you know what i'm saying she adds a very interesting component here i don't hurt my kids right so there's a lot of weight on that hey you just got to go you got to go do this but the thing is you're on it until you're exceeding it that's right so once you're exceeding it you're exceeding it and it's like okay i can do more i can keep going i don't need this crutch any longer it was there for a season it was never intended to be something that you had for the rest of your life and so i think that's the part she's gotta understand is okay this was here to just kind of like raise me up a little bit and get me to that point but i'm to that point now i can i can go

forward and you know i think you have to be real about very very very real about the dollars and cents we took a call earlier yes how much does my house cost what are my electric bill what's my water bill what is my gas bill what is food in this house what's transportation look like how stable is this job do i need a second job what's child care yes you have to be honest about those numbers and it's easy to say i just want to be done with this great but if you're not ready math may not be done with you that's right right same as we talk to people on the other side is like i'm just gonna buy this house math doesn't care what you want to do right yeah so it's being honest about these numbers and then we're gonna

practice and you will mess it up if you've never stretched your legs you're gonna fall down that's okay it's part of it. That's why we have coaches that walk alongside people. That's why we have budget that gives you a good framework for it. And we'll walk with you every step of the way. But keep that word in mind. Practice.

Any of us. The cool cultural thing to do now is to scream and yell at people who are trying to change. Just beat them back to the place where they deserve. That's a good job. I see men trying to become different Just beat them back to the place where they deserve. I see men trying to become different kinds of men and they're beat up on both sides. And what do they do? They stop. I don't want to take it. I see women, same thing. See those with the least of these, those who are trying to learn to give. So you're going to have to ignore the voices and you're going to go to

the next right thing. And we all have to practice. It's okay. We're learning new skills. We're going to make it happen. I like that. It's good, John. All right. Let's try to take a call. We've got Darren in Boise, Idaho. What's going on, Darren? Well, good afternoon. I've got a couple of questions for you. I have a key lock that I'm paying on. We had some big issues in our kitchen, and we felt that it was probably best to just redo the kitchen and try to make a few different things work with it. We had a hole in the bottom of our oven, so we couldn't use our oven. Our cooktop wasn't working anymore.

So we just redid our kitchen. What was the HELOC for? Amount. Oh, $40,000. so we just we redid our kitchen what was the yield for amount oh $40,000 what else you got we have our home that's it we have our home on a 15 year mortgage

we have $188,000 left and it's at 2.25% so my question is this, I'm, I'm 53. I, um, I'm, I'm investing in my 401k, uh, doing the catch up. So it's like 30,000 a year. Okay. And I'm, I'm wondering, should I, should I drop that for a year and pay off this heloc is that gonna i mean it's gonna hurt me a little bit but you know we're okay we got about we almost have six hundred thousand dollars in our 401k yeah um and then and so if i do that then also then what is my tax liability because

my taxable income is going to jump way up and my my taxes are going to be brutal it probably won't be that bad no it's not gonna you're when your tax bracket changes your your whole pay your the whole isn't amount isn't on that bracket it's just the amount that puts you into that bracket so you're not gonna it's not going to be a bloodbath here how much do you make um our combined household income is is about 200 000 bro here's what you're doing you put your house on the block for a new kitchen i i would get it again i would get you put the house on the block you went to the bank and said hey you give us a kitchen and if we don't pay you back you can have our house. I would take my house. I would be much more concerned long-term

that somebody else has the keys to my front door than not, than any kind of interest rate, any kind of tax implication. Do you get what I'm saying? So you would stop putting money into your 401k? I would stop everything and pay that HELOC off. Your house is on the chopping block right now. The key here is, Darren, you've really dropped back to baby step two on this. We always say that if the HELOC is less than half of the total value, then it goes into baby step two.

So you owe $188,000. The HELOC is $40,000. So for all intents and purposes, you're on baby step two. And so that's us pausing retirement. If you wanted to take some of the money that you had in savings and put it onto this and then rebuild that up, you could do that. But you're back in baby step two. It's not going to take you long to pay it off and rebuild your savings and get back to investing.

But that's the bed you made. And so you kind of have to lay in it. And I hate to tell you that because it feels not fun at 53 years old, but you guys made that choice. This is The Ramsey Show. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed? Well, that's why we created the Ramsey Network app,

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Simply search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play. If you're listening on a podcast, just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play. If you're listening on a podcast, just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app today. From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw next to Dr. John Deloney, and we're going to take your calls all hour long. We're going to help you build wealth, do work that you love, and create amazing relationships. It's a live show, so if you want to call in, you can do that. The number is 888-825-5225. Let's get it on a poppin', John.

Let's do it. And I'll call you Dr. Jade. I accept that. No. Don't do it. Dude, you can get them online now. It's all good. It's all good.

It's a certificate program. Yeah, it's easy. What is it called when they just bestow it on you because you did something cool? Honorary. Honorary. Yeah. We had to give that to James. He wanted that, so we hooked him up with that.

Dr. James Childs? Yeah, Dr. James Childs. That has a nice ring to it. Dr. Jimmy C. Let's take a call. Let's go to Denver and talk to Chris. What's going on, Chris, in Denver? Hi, how's it going?

Doing good. How are you? Oh, doing okay um I'm on baby step two which is paying debt off and I've been just attacking debt but I'm getting to the point now to where um you know should I start putting a little bit into my emergency fund? Because it seems like every time I turn around right now, I'm paying on a credit card. And it's two steps forward, one step back, because there's a dental bill that comes up or something. We have three kids. Okay. So let's talk about that a little bit you're on baby step two but do you have the thousand dollars saved oh yeah okay so you're you're feeling like you just keep going through

it and then some oh yeah okay uh part of this part of baby step two uh the huge the huge crux of baby step two is budgeting and the way that you're budgeting and how you're kind of scanning the next week and the next month and the next six months to make sure that you're budgeting properly to try to avoid some of these what now feel like emergencies because whether it's dental stuff or it's something with the car. So a lot of people will utilize sinking funds if they know, okay, like I'm going to have to take, you know, junior to the dentist and it's never $100, right? So that's one way you can kind of start looking towards this. Another way you can look towards that is just to say not right now. Like if it's something that can wait, obviously if somebody is having tooth pain, it can't, you know, wait, but there might be some of the things when it comes to orthodontics and,

you know, Jimmy needs braces, things like that, that can can wait so tell me more about the emergencies that are popping up oh it's just i mean now that you've put it that way it's just now your plan um you know i'll be honest i've paid off in three months i've paid off 30 grand worth000 worth of debt. Wow, way to go. Can I tell you, Chris, what I hear? You sound tired, man. I am. Are you exhausted? I run a business, and I'm exhausted all the time. I work six, sometimes seven days a week.

Last night, I got home at midnight. I was up at five. I'm at my stop. Can I stop real quick and just celebrate you, man? I know that's not going to pay your life bill, but dude, we have a culture of people who are sitting on their couch watching TV and posting and whining,

and you are the man who gives me hope for the world that my two kids are inheriting. I appreciate that. Hey, I'm telling you right now, brother. You're out doing it. If I had a culture of men like you and women like you, we would have literally zero of our innate challenges right now. Yeah.

I'm listening. Dude, I'm just telling you. Just dad to dad, I'm so proud of you i can hardly breathe man it's awesome now you get me choked up how much longer do you got to go i did the debt calculator and that's the thing i did the debt calculator and um it said 2027, um, February, 2027 with everything that I've got right now. Okay. Um, consumer debt wise, um, our mortgage will be paid off and half of it will be paid off in four years and the other half will be, uh, 10 years.

So half of it in four years. So that's the 2027. Are you including half of it in four years. So that's the 2027. Are you including half of it in that? Well, half the mortgage payment goes away. We bought two lots. I see. I basically bought two lots and moved a mobile on it

that I bought for three grand and renovated the whole thing and paid cash to do it. So now we owe, we don't do business with banks. I don't have, I have, they did an owner carry on my property and I did it that way so I could pay cash to do it and have a place. Our mortgage is $1,100 a month. Okay. And what's, how much is the other consumer debt?

$175,000. Okay. And what kind of debt is it? Can you go through it for me? See if we can shorten this. I've got a truck for $62,000 that I didn't really have a choice on. Tell me more about that. Yeah, you do, brother. $62,000 feels like a lot of choices. Tell me. What is it? I had a 27. I shoe horses for a living.

Okay. I put 65,000 miles a year on a truck. Okay. 65,000 miles. Yeah, 65,000 miles a year on a truck. Okay. My truck blew up. They wanted 30 grand to fix it.

They had $305,000 on it. It was COVID-19, 2022, right around there. And there was zero trucks on the lot. And they were wanting more for some

used trucks than they were for new trucks. And I worked for very high-end people that for some used trucks than they were for new trucks. And I work for very high end people that I have to be there. It's just, here's what I want to get to. Cause I don't want to run out of time on you. Okay. So that's a $62,000 truck.

What, what's it worth? You owe 62. What is it worth? I'm 30 grand upside down on it. Oh gosh. Okay. 30 grand upside down. Okay. Tell us the rest

of the debt. Let's keep going. Uh, I have another truck that I bought used by, uh, December. Talk right into your phone cause you're breaking up. Talk right into your phone for me. Yeah, go for it. I'm talking right into it. Okay. Can you hear me? Yep. I owe $32,000 on another truck. What's it worth? $10,000 upside down on that one.

Okay, so it's worth $22,000? Yeah. Okay. Is it necessary for your life or can we offhaul it? Is it necessary for your business? Yes, this is what I use primarily for my business. I wanted to stop driving the one that I'm $30,000 upside down on, pay the payment, and hopefully in a year I can get rid of it.

Okay. It might require you switching that ideal because it's going to be harder to get out of this $30,000 truck upside down than this one that you're only $10,000 upside down, and that could clear out twenty thousand dollars of debt lickety split if you did that if you just got a loan to cover the difference well my only thing is is the other one that i bought is a diesel my one that blew up was a diesel and when the diesel blows up it's thirty thirty thousand plus dollars okay but there's'm driving now is a gas truck. And it doesn't cost, the repair cost

and everything on it is... Hold on, brother. Listen. You're creating a world where you can't win. You're creating a world where you can't win. There's not a path forward without sacrifice here, man. There's just not. We want you to win

so bad, but you're going to have to make some concessions. Whether you stop doing high-end horseshoeing or you sell one of these trucks or you get rid of one of the lots, you're going to have to make some hard calls, brother. Yeah. You know what? I'm interested in talking with you more. Can you stay on the line so we can talk to you a little bit longer? This is The Ramsey Show.

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in real time so you always know what's happening with your money. Talk about a weight lifted off your shoulders. Start feeling in control of your money again. Download the EveryDollar app today for free. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jay. Next to me is Dr. John. We're taking your calls. As a matter of fact, we just took a call from Chris in Denver.

He was telling us about his situation. He's $175,000 in debt. And right now it's going to take him until 2027 to pay it off. I asked him to go a little bit more deeper into the situation. It turns out he's got a $62,000 truck that he's $30,000 upside down on. He also has a $32,000 truck that he's $10,000 upside down on. And I just wanted to dig a little bit deeper. Chris, does that sound about right, bud? Yeah. Yeah, that's about right. And it's not like we're destitute. I mean, I make really good money. Yeah.

Oh, I know you do. I know you do. I see that. I just want to make sure that we're making the most of this debt-free timeline because you sounded so tired when you called in and we want to make sure you get to the to the light at the end of the tunnel here so you're currently driving the $32,000 truck you're driving it because it's not a diesel truck and you don't want it to blow up but meanwhile you've got the $62,000 truck sitting in the driveway what collecting dust so I want to figure out the right solution on that but tell me about the rest of the debt I owe 40 grand to the IRS okay and then I and then I have uh let's see there's that and that and then I owe 11 on a credit card 11 on a credit card is there

something else uh 130 40 I think so maybe I'm wrong on the number. Okay, because right now I've got $100,000, $134,000, $144,000, and you told me you had $175,000, right? Yeah, what else? Let me think for a second here. Meanwhile, while you talk about that, that's it. Okay, okay so it's a little less than what we thought about um first things first irs has to jump to the top of the list if it's not okay okay usually we talk about the debt snowball being smallest to largest in this case irs has to come first and that's for anybody listening if you're in trouble with the irs you gotta deal with that first because you know telling what they can garnish your wages and then that would really put you in a dilly of a pickle, as they say. Okay. So that's for... I've got an agreement with them.

I just make them a payment. Okay. But you're going to pay them more because they're going to be the number one thing in your debt snowball. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Knock it out as quickly as possible. Yeah. And I've got that that was next in line after the eleven thousand dollar credit card yes but now we're switching that and we're putting the irs irs first okay okay gotta do it that way all right uh going back to these trucks hey i really you gotta sell one of them and the one that makes the most sense to sell john cut in if you want to i'm just thinking about i mean if you wanted to take the hit on the thirty thousand dollar the sixty two thousand dollar truck and just say hey i'd rather owe 30 than than 60 you could i guess take out a loan for the difference and be on the hook for the 30 um yeah i let me dude i i are you frustrated with this chris like are you frustrated with yourself no no

not at all i i'm i'm i'm just trying to i'm a number i mean i know i've gotten myself into this but um i i i would love to get rid of the the $62,000 then do it head head over there if your credit will allow you get a $30,000 loan for the difference and sell the truck for $30,000. You're free and clear. I'd rather you owe $30,000 than $62,000. And it's going to suck. You're going to be like, why? But you got to get out of that. The only other choice is to go and sell the $32,000 truck that you're $10,000 upside down on that one. Can I ask you this? How much do you make, brother? What's your net income

from your business alone? The whole business is $175,000. A year? Yeah. Okay.

That's after all the truck payments and everything, too. I bring in a quarter million a year. That's your bottom line. So why in the world is it going to take you two years or three years to pay this debt off? Because it hasn't. I mean, if I did more towards it, but I'm just living, like I've been putting $10,000 a month towards debt, and then I drain my bank account, and then something comes up, and then I've got to put it on a credit card.

Here's the thing. So do I hold some of that back a little bit? I mean, if you know a dentist appointment is coming for your child, yeah. With you owning your own business, there's a tension here between are you going to pay yourself more and pay taxes on that and do that whole song and dance, or are you going to leave the money in the business and do it like that? So I think that you have more. I'm not sure the workings of your business. I don't know if you're the only employer of your business, but if you have the ability to pay yourself more so that you can work through this

more quickly, I would do that. I would get rid of one of these trucks, whatever makes the most sense, whatever one you're willing to part with, you've got to get rid of one. Maybe it's the $60,000 one. That's probably where I would start. You've got to move IRS to the top of the list. That's the prescription. It's up to you if you're going to take the medicine or not. All right, let's go to Travis who's in Dallas, Texas. What's going on, Travis? Hey, Jade and Dr. John. How are you guys today? We're doing good. How can we help? Fantastic. I am super glad to be on. Dr. John, I just finished building a non-anxious life on audiobook while door dashing. Excellent. Hope you're a little bit less anxious, man.

Yep, absolutely. So my question is, my wife and I are in baby step two. We've got about $129,000 left to pay. So basically what I'm trying to figure out is I have a loan that is a loan from a credit union from a car that was underwater. And the minimum payment is $583,000. And there's $5,000 left on that. However, that is like seven debts down, the debt snowball. And so I was curious on what your guys' thoughts were in trying to pay that off a little bit more quickly to free up that $583 payment a month. So you're saying it's four debts down and the ones in front of it have a lower, have less money that they free up. Correct. It's actually, well, the IRS is on the

top right now. And then one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, it's actually eight debts down from the top. I mean, the truth is, the truth is, Travis, a lot of the thought behind some of the things we teach is not necessarily from a mathematical perspective. That's the truth. Right. A lot of times it has more to do with how you're feeling and what makes you feel more motivated in a moment. And so the way, the reason we teach the debt snowball is because there's something about being able to check something off a list and cross it off the list and go, okay, yes, I've done something successful. I can keep going. And so my guess is, I mean, not a guess. It's true. The ones that are before this

$5,000 debt are a lot smaller of debts and you should be able to knock them out fast. They're $5,000 and lower, right? And you said it's eight that go above that. So, I mean, how much could these debts be? $2,000 and $3,000? Yeah. So they're anywhere between $2,000 and $4,000 and, you know, so far we've paid off about $30,000 since we started with you guys in March. How much margin are you putting every month? What's your what's your shovel? About two thousand a month. OK, so two thousand extra, five thousand total towards debt a month. So in about five or six months, you should be up to this five thousand dollar debt. Yeah. If you're if you've got a two thousand dollar shovel and most of the debts are between two and four000, we should be clicking up this.

Basically, almost every month, you're almost knocking one of them out. And so I think that's going to feel more gratifying than having the extra money there. Now, it's your life. You can do whatever you want. I'm not going to yell at you. You're the one who has to sleep in your bed at night is what I'm saying. But that's my advice, and I'm sticking sticking to it i like the bird in your saddle i like the fact that it pisses you off uh-huh oh yes yeah i like the fact is it follow an order man and let

it just drive you crazy let it drive you crazy and it's going to encourage i guarantee you if you don't pay it off early you'll get there faster than six months yeah for sure yeah it's going to encourage, I guarantee you, if you don't pay it off early, you'll get there faster than six months. Yeah, for sure. It's definitely got a motivation. When you have $175,000 of student loans where you started with, and I've made more progress in the past six months than I almost did in 10 years. Of course you did. That's right. That's right. And so I think the next six months to eight months are game changers for you guys, momentum wise. There's a reason that we teach what we teach. We teach it because

it works. At the end of the day, it works. We've been teaching this 30 years. Not me, but Dave Ramsey, the goat. And I've just been here, I don't know, two years, but I can tell you it works. It works for me. My husband and I paid off $460,000 of debt using the debt snowball method, listing those debts from smallest to largest, making minimum payments on all, but throwing all the money at the smallest debt. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

This is the season for Halloween. It's October. We're wearing costumes and we're wearing masks. So if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. And while you're thinking started planning your costume yet, get on it. And while you're thinking about it, I want you to be honest. A lot of us hide ourselves. We hide our true selves behind costumes and masks all the time.

We do this at work. We do this around our friends. We do this around our families. We even do this when we look at ourselves in the mirror. I know because I've been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding behind masks and costumes all the time, if you find yourself hiding from your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can be honest, where you can talk to somebody else and reflect and learn and you can accept all

the parts of yourself over time and start living an authentic life. Masks and costumes should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. And if you're considering therapy, try calling my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for you and your schedule.

Just fill out a short online survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.com slash Deloney. Hey folks, Dave here. If you haven't booked your cabin on the Live Like No One Else cruise, now's the time because

it's 90-something percent sold out. You do not want to miss joining me, the Ramsey personalities, and amazing guest entertainers for the ultimate debt-free celebration. We'll be sailing the Caribbean March 22nd through the 29th, 2025, stopping at the incredible Turks and Caicos, Puerto Rico, St. Thomas, and the Bahamas. Hurry to secure your spot with a $600 deposit today at ramseysolutions.com slash cruise. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. You can give us a call if you want us to take your call. It's 888-825-5225 and we will get to you. All right, John, the Live Like

No One Else cruise is almost sold out. Can you believe that? I can. More than 80% of the cabins are already booked. Yeah, dude. So if you want to join us in March, you need to secure your cabin today. The cruise, really, it's just the ultimate debt-free celebration if that's the way you want to join us in March, you need to secure your cabin today. The cruise, really, it's just the ultimate debt-free celebration, if that's the way you want to look at it. This is for people who are on Baby Step 4 and above. All right. So if you're on Baby Step 2, the boat's going to leave without you,

is all I'm saying. It's not for you. You straight up rhymed that. If you're on Baby Step 2, the boat will leave without you. Listen, I'm a poet and didn't know it. Be rhyming all the time. All the time. Here we go.

Join us. And when I say us, I'm talking about all the Ramsey personalities, Dr. John, myself, George Camel, Rachel Cruz. I'm going to forget somebody. Ken Coleman, the goat. We're all going to be there. All right. George. George is he is campaigning for a cannonball competition.

He is very small, but he is a mighty cannonballer. So that's going to be a key part of the week. It's a Speedo only cannonball competition. That's what he's, that's what he's campaigning for.

Obviously, Ken and I want to wear, well, Ken wants to wear jean shorts. I just want to wear regular, regular swim trunks, but we'll get there. We'll figure it out.

We'll figure out the logistics. It's going to be a party. No shoes shirt and i it's also um because this is like the meeting of this is like the meeting of the epicenter of the cult there's going to be many punch bowls and ladles we're just going to drink kool-aid stop it it's going to be amazing okay wait a minute let me go back this is not going to be kenny chesney's cruise as i may have saying it's going to be amazing we're going to have a blast a cultic cruise as John has said why would you not come it's going to be so fun

it's going to be so much fun we're going to Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, Bahamas we've made this announcement a lot of times that's why me and John are cutting up but it's going to be a great great time you don't want to miss this we're partying with Dave come on you don't want to miss it you can secure your spot for $600 that's the deposit before all the cabins are gone so if

you just like I don't want to miss out put your $600 down and book your cabin today at ramseysolutions.com slash cruise that's the way to do it we'll see you there we'll see you out there all right let's go to the phone lines. We've got Angie, who's in Albuquerque, New Mexico. What's up, Angie? Hello. How are you doing? Doing good. What's up? So I have a question regarding my marriage. So legally, I've been married for 13 years, but it's been on and off for a while there. But lately, recently, within the last three years, I have been living a silent divorce with my husband as far as being emotionally, physically, financially detached from our marriage. So I have a roommate now.

Tell me about that. Tell me about that that choice why have y'all chosen that world because there's no more connection there i know but like um it's kind of a thing in popular culture to say like our relationship ran its course i just reject that i i people at the end of the day they stop or one person just gets off the train and the other person can't keep going but have y'all sat down and had this conversation or have y'all just have y'all just slowly let this thing go out to pasture like right tell me that's basically how it happened okay we did not sit down for it and um i've particularly asked for divorce but he said he's not finding anything so we just live like this

the issue around all of this is this is what i'm just wondering if it's even healthy to do this part here. I know it's not healthy for me, but from what I've been looking for spiritually is what they've been telling me and what I've been, you know, throughout my research is that it's better for the kids to be at home and see both parents, even though we're living in this situation versus being separated in different homes that would be more harmful for them. That doesn't even pass your smell test. You know that's not true and you're repeating something you continue to hear.

Do you think it's better for your child to walk home and see two people who say we are married and your child is downloading into their nervous system and into their heart and mind and soul this is what marriage this is what love and compassion and till death do us part looks like i know but no i don't agree with it but this what... I know people are going to say what they're going to say. Not necessarily. It's like the Bible says, once you get married, you're married for life. That's it. Your husband left you.

And I'm saying this with all love in my heart. He left you. He just won't leave the house. Well, I wish he would. I know, but he left you. We both did. Then you both left each other. And so what you're doing is you're playing legal semantics with the Bible.

Stop. I can't make someone sign. You know what I mean? There can be a no-fault divorce, and the judge will make you sell your house and property and divide it up. And he will get whatever part is his, and you will get whatever part is yours, and you will go on about the life you all have created for yourself. But both of you are making a choice every single day.

And I hate to be so direct, but that's the truth. And what I think is you're living a life as a divorced person that's the word you gave me right well that's what i so you've already violated this this biblical contract you're trying to stay like you're trying to stay true to you've already done it plus most contract can i just say the heart of a contract is the heart of the matter like when you get married the piece of paper is a legality, but it's more about you're saying I'm in commitment and covenant with this person. It's the heart. That's really what is the marriage.

Like if we're talking about things from really like this biblical perspective, it's that commitment, but you guys have long since detached from that. So it's not about the, the legal piece of paper that's not are you telling me the reconciliations over that he won't sit down and say okay we've chosen to build this life and now we can choose to build something else no it's definitely over but again it's more towards what's gonna be more like a word what it's just going to be more i don't know uh healthier maybe you're so far ma'am you're so far past health you're you're so far past that and i know it's hard

because you're living in it you've been living in it for 36 months you're so far past health a a healthy mother and a healthy dad that's the greatest gift for your kids and i don't matter rather if it's the same household or not regardless if they're going to be wonderful productive people society it just doesn't matter whether it's the same household or not that's just the bottom line no it's it's a this is like it's a straw man so people ask people ask me on my show all the time the question oh, should we stay together for the kids? No, fix your marriage for the kids. Like that's a false dichotomy.

Fix your marriage for yourselves. And then out of that repair, your kids get to see two people that got really distant, but they made a covenant and they came back together. And if both of you refuse to do that, yes, then your house becomes cancer. Stop. But it's not just for your kid.

It's for you too and for your husband. Can I ask a question? Are you guys living together peacefully? Or is this like the worst? No, no. I mean, we're fine. So you're living together peacefully. Can I ask another question?

Was there like a catalyst? Like, was there a moment that it was like, that's it? Like, did somebody cheat? Did somebody, was there that big blow up moment? Or did this just slowly erode over time? previously um and supposedly he was gonna you know love my child and everything and just throughout the years i realized no he resents her a lot and because of that it's just it it had it just turned turned me off completely that so you're so you left him no we're still in the same no no no but for all practical matters you left him right okay then call it call a spade a spade. Yeah, I can't get that love back. It's just not true. No, that's not true. You're choosing not to, and that's okay.

You can make that choice. No. Okay. If you're done, you're done, you're done, you're done. I don't, again, I don't want that to be the case. But I also understand if y'all both made a choice, and let's make a choice, and let's go ahead and call what we're doing

what it actually is we're doing. This idea of a silent divorce, it's like all hipster and cool. Man, you are untethered inside your own home. So you begin to come home, and you don't know who or what the energy in this home is going to be. It's not safe for anybody.

It's not good. Be adults, and let's sit across the table, and let's say if we've made this choice to end this, then we're going to do the right thing, the next right thing. If there's any chance we can choose to come back together, let's make that choice and let's fight like hell to save this marriage. But y'all get to make that choice. Folks, changing your family tree takes more than rice and beans and side hustles. It's also about transferring the big financial risks off your family by having the right kinds of coverage in place. That's why my team created the Coverage Checkup Quiz. It only takes about five minutes to find out what types of insurance you need and don't need to protect your finances. Make this quiz one of your regular checkups,

starting right now at ramseysolutions.com slash checkup. That's ramseysolutions.com slash checkup. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. I'm Jane Warshaw. We're taking your calls. We mostly take your calls. It's a live show,

but today we have a question of the day that's coming to you from YRefi. Today's question of the day brought to you by YRefi. So now we don't recommend refinancing on everything, but for distressed private student loans, there is YRefi. We trust YRefi because they help you with low fixed rate, fixed interest rate. They help you get a low fixed interest rate you couldn't get anywhere else. To help you stick to your budget and get out of debt, learn more at YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Wyatt in California.

Wyatt writes, my wife recently asked for a divorce, but she wants to stay married until she finishes her MBA degree. Wow. To complicate things, my family... Oh, nice. To complicate things, my family had agreed to pay for her degree when she started the program as an early inheritance for me. This guy is an honor student. I think she only wants to stay for the free tuition.

What should I do? If I had a beard, I'd be stroking my beard on this one because this is ridiculousness. I don't mean this to be mean, Jade, but we're doomed just as a society. This is bananas. Bro, your wife left you. She asked you for divorce. There's a word. Oh, boy. Okay. Dude um dude listen it's not good if you say yes to this you got to bounce with an ounce you have to uh brush your shoulders off she left you she left you and um there's so much

complexity here yes don't pay for the wife that's leaving you that's divorcing you don't let her take part of your inheritance this whole thing's such a mess um yes i would stop tuition payments how about that let's just start there for god's sakes yeah if you're not the gravy train ends like at that point like if you if you get divorced you don't get to say oh and will your parents please still pay for my, you know. It's like being at the Golden Corral and you cash out and you get your ticket and you walk to the parking lot and then you see them bringing prime ribs out. Yeah. You don't get to go back.

Wait a minute. Wait. Wait, wait. I'm going to back a truck up here and take all the prime rib out. Dude, you cashed out. You cashed out. Somebody else gets the prime rib. That's right.

You left. It's Golden Corral, baby. Wow. Yeah. This is a boundaries conversation. out somebody else gets the the prime that's right you left his golden corral baby wow yeah this is this is a this is a boundaries conversation i'm guessing john i mean there's clearly a lot here she can you don't you don't get both sides of you can't have your cake and eat it too if she says i want a divorce all right boom and i definitely wouldn't drag the in-laws into it no that just makes it even more messy and if your in-laws into it no that just makes it even more messy

and if your in-laws hear the story and they say well that's cool we still want to pay for her um for her degree a they're they can do what they want to do it's their money and b if it is part of an inheritance then it will come out of a divorce settlement so it's not just going to be free money it will have to be disclosed as part of a divorce settlement. So it's not just going to be free money. It will have to be disclosed as part of a divorce settlement. And y'all will figure that out in court. And I'm heartbroken for you, Wyatt, that your wife wants to divorce you. I hate that for you, man. I just hate it.

I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. Yeah, this sucks. And if I could be ridiculous for a moment, her timing was terrible. I mean, she must feel some type of way. Like if I'm like, gosh like gosh let me i want to finish my mba but i don't want to tell him well there's also the other side of this that like wyatt's

cheated five times and she finally says i'm out but i'm getting my my my that's all we don't know we that's the thing about these questions we never know you could you know throw a lot of different wrenches into this subject but at the end end of the day, it's like, if you say you're done, you're done. Here's the best way to think of it. The moment somebody says, I'm divorcing you, from this point forward, this is no longer a romantic relationship. This is a business transaction, period.

It has gone, we got married. We signed a marriage contract for this reason. This is how we're gonna separate everything. It is a business proposition from this point forward when somebody throws the D word and says, I'm divorcing you. Cool, then that's how we're hanging along, that's moving forward.

Can I ask you a question? Yep. I'm not trying to trip you up in any way. So on the show, we talk a lot about money, obviously, and we always say that you know one of the main causes of divorce is money fights and money problems you're a person who's in this knee deep all the time is where does it start i i think we i mean i think it's both ends so we say money is a symptom and i'm saying that because we've had two of these in a row yeah

of just whacked out just what's going on here we say that money is a symptom and i'm saying that because we've had two of these in a row yeah of just whacked out just what's going on here we say that money is a symptom and i think it continues so let's take abuse and let's take just evil and put off to the side that's outside the bell curve in this conversation right there's abusive people and there's terrible people we know that i don't think most people are abusive most people are terrible i think most people are unintentional and they have a picture about what they want their life to look like and they just assume that the person next to them that they married is going to absorb into that picture not knowing that that person has a picture of what their life is going to look like and vice versa and so here's a good example in my house

there's something so tiny that happened recently. We have two dogs, and then I got my daughter a little, it's like a gremlin dog. Like a little cockapoo. And they fight and scream and run around. I got to where dinner time was frustrating for me. It just felt like so much. And I wasn't being the dad that I wanted to be.

I was finding myself snippy. I was finding myself just like, hey, can y'all, once we backed out, and my wife and I, and she and she's like hey man dinner's like a sacred time we always just come here and exhale it's where we laugh it's these three dogs that we took from outside are running around underneath the table we put them in a kennel now during dinner and man you just made a clear choice but it was unintentional and what was happening was i didn't want to come to the table my wife didn't want to be around a grumpy me so it's easier hey we're gonna grab we're gonna grab chick-fil-a on the way home right and so it happens by teeny tiny degrees

and turns out it's the dumb dogs running around on the table so it's a lack of intentionality and a lack of saying hey this is a sacred thing for us you want this i want this how do we choose to make this happen oh we can just do that that's easy it's a lack of intentionality when you're not in touch about your money then suddenly i'm buying this you're buying this you borrowed this i want to buy this and now we have two different worlds but we live on the same couch and then it implodes right so money fights are a symptom of two people that have not aligned their pictures and have not aligned their values and have not committed we're going to we're going to forego short-term pleasure for a long-term vision of what the world we want to build together and it sounds like they've chosen the wrong enemy to

direct their that's right their guns at right that's right yeah and so going back to the previous call you make a choice you make teeny tiny choices along the way that gets you this final choice you do that with your money you do that with your physical health right like my buddy lane norton didn't just wake up one day and win worlds he started 20 years ago lifting weights right so then every day i gotta believe it's the same thing getting back right that's the beauty is if you will own you and i've both made choices to choose a miserable marriage, then you can both make choices to choose something amazing. That's where the light and the darkness is.

You can choose something else. Nothing is inevitable unless outside of abuse. Nothing is inevitable. You can choose something different together. It's amazing. I love that, John. See, you add a lot to the show, John, and I love picking your brain on stuff like this because you just have a different perspective. And by the way, I believe in people. You do. I like that. I like about to end if you're listening you know on your favorite platform but if you want to keep watching the show and keep finishing this specific episode keep hearing from

john keep hearing from me you got to head over to the ramsey network app in order to finish the show um if you're on the radio you can just keep listening it's still going to play uh more calls are still coming up we've got christian from madison wisconsin we've got carol from sacramento we've got a truck driver who's you know living out of his semi truck coming up uh We've got Carol from Sacramento. We've got a truck driver who's, you know, living out of a semi truck coming up. We've got a woman, Ashley. She wants to know if she should use the money that she has to get a car or to pay off debt. So we've got really great calls coming up. I'm going to pick John's brain a little bit more. But again, the Ramsey Network app is the only place that you're really going to get the full episodes of the Ramsey show like you're used to hearing.

So you got to go over to the app. If you don't know where it is, you can search Ramsey Network in the App Store or on Google Play. That's the way to find it. And by the way, we're still working on the app. Every day we're doing things to make it better, make that experience the best we can for you. We just started this, so it's kind of cool. You guys are in on the ground level and we're happy you're here with us. But again, don't miss what's coming up next. Head over to the Ramsey Network app and it'll be me and John. We'll be in our same clothes, same shirt, same

plaid, finishing up the show. Thanks for hanging out with us. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom.

All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.