The Ramsey Show - Quit Trying to Outearn Your Stupidity!

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan ✅ Help us make the show better by taking this short survey! Dave Ramsey & Rachel Cruze answer your questions and discuss: "38% of homes are owned by Boomers. What happens to the market when they start to die?" "Should I continue to take out student loans?" "I won over $200,000 on a game show and don't know what to do with it," "How do I financially prepare for the loss of my vision?" "How do we navigate my wife's social media blowing up and lots of money coming our way?" "My husband is an avid Ramsey fan and says that we cannot buy a new car" Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY ⛨ Find top Health Insurance Plans at Health Trust Financial 💸 To find out more about student loan refinancing, check out Laurel Road 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at The Nokbox 🎥 Get your tickets for The Chosen Season 5! 💵 Learn more about Timothy Plan 🏛 Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📱 Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 🎟️ See Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Delony LIVE in a city near you ❤️‍🩹 Get trusted insurance coverage that fits your budget. 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🛒 Preorder Build a Business You Love Now at Ramsey Solutions 💰 Don’t pay extra for simple tax filing needs. File your taxes with 100% accurate software that’s 20% of the price Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Me and Dr. John Delaney are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. It's happening soon, so don't wait. Get your tickets at ramsysolutions.com slash tour. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author many times over, host of the Rachel Cruz show and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Networks and my daughter, she's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. Tim is with us. Tim is in Minneapolis. Hi Tim, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, how's it going Dave? Thanks for having me guys. Sure, what's up? Yeah, so you know, long time listener. I hear you guys talk a lot about how housing prices aren't coming down, you know, due to supply and demand. But with boomers owning, you know, almost 40 percent of houses in America, is that something we should expect, you know, in the next 10 to 15 years just based on life expectancy? Well, I'm a boomer. I'm 64. My life expectancy, having made it to 64, is 90. Is it really? Yeah, statistically.

You'll be around for a while, Dave. Yeah, the average, I mean, if you make it to 60, you know, so the average male death in America right now is 76, average female death is 78, but that includes infant mortality, teenage death, and so on. So when you have a healthy boomer make it in, so the gradient is not 10 to 15 years the gradient is 20 to 30 years got it to which to which point the answer is is the absorption rate will not even notice it you won't even know it happened because the the inventory shortage is far superior to that gradient

okay that makes sense yeah Yeah, no, that makes sense. Yeah, literally, I'm 64 and so over the next 30 years, the boomers will die off. Roughly. Yeah. Not over the next 10 years. If they were all to die in the next five years, then your question would say, okay, there's going to be a rush of supply into the market and he could cause prices to adjust. Right, right. And that's what his question really added under it.

Right. And if there was an effect or something happened and they all went within 12 months, you know what I mean? Like it's enough of a spread that it's going to be so gradual. If we get the boomer virus. I don't know. That's what I'm like, I don't know. What if it happens? Something that takes out all the old people. So yeah, I mean. We would miss y'all. Yeah, it's kind of like,

like you think we will miss you all. We would miss you. That sounded not sincere. I don't know. It is. Oh, I love it. Michelle's in Dallas. Hey Michelle, what's up?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure, how can we help? Yes, so I have an employer that offers a student loan forgiveness and I am debating whether or not when I go back to nursing school to pay it cash to not add on to the debt that I already have or should I go ahead and take out the loans, be better financially stable during nursing school and then apply for the loan forgiveness after I graduate never take out that okay period because you're assuming one possible

track in this scenario that everything works exactly like your little plan you just laid out and a hundred percent of the time things don't work like you plan. Something different will happen and here's the other thing if they will give you student loan forgiveness and they won't give you education funding equivalent to that I'm gonna find a hospital that will because there's a shortage of nurses and someone will write you that check. If that group won't somebody else will. Hmm. What? Like tuition reimbursement. Yeah exactly. Got you, got you. Because they're already coming out of pocket for student debt. What's the difference in that and tuition reimbursement?

None. That makes sense. And if they won't do that, talk to somebody across the street that's a different hospital or a different medical group and they will because I got to tell you, I'm thrilled for you. You are picking out probably, assuming you love it and you're engaged, which I guess you are, what I think is one of the best careers in America is nursing. Thank you. I've been doing this 35 years and the entire 35 years I've sat in this chair there's been a nursing shortage. So you can always pick and choose get whatever you want you could work as many hours as you want you could work 72 straight you could do all you can pick

up nursing you can pick up ER on the weekends at triple time. I mean you can make bank and control your life how much you work in this field like no other I know of. It's almost the equivalent of being self-employed, except self-employed is harder. You know? I'm thrilled for you. If you love nursing, you're in the right place and don't shortchange yourself as to what somebody will pay to get you out there. You are a commodity, baby. You can demand a price. Got you. Okay, that's cool. Very fun stuff. I love that. I mean, some of the best stories we've had, you know, back during COVID, the travel nursing stuff, the people that were still working

and they were paying, they were paying people like, we had one lady, I think she got half million dollars in a year. It's crazy. And she paid off like $300,000 in student loan, I remember. Yeah. And in that same vein, you know, that there's, there's a lot of different tracks and a lot of different career paths, companies, associations, all different things that take this route of we will pay your student loans if you come work for us, or we'll pay your tuition if you come work for us, right? And so that guaranteed time though,

still a good idea to have someone else pay your tuition, even if you are stuck in a sector or stuck in a specific company. What would be your- How long you're stuck in it and what's the price that you're stuck in it at? I mean, so if you're being underpaid versus the market substantially,

you would have been better off to pay your own tuition and not be stuck there. Right, more than a year or something. Or if there's no advancement because of the thing, because you're stuck in that sense, you're getting a good rate today, but it's not gonna be a good rate three years from now, because entry level on that's got a curve to it, right?

Right. And you're gonna be stuck then. Or it's a five year deal. But if it's a two year deal and your competitive salary position or competitive income position, then you oughta do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause there's some great tracks out there

and then we've also heard on the flip side. Be careful, be careful there's a hook in there. I don't know, yeah. Just to make sure that it is, it's a clear obvious way and that it's for a shorter amount of time not a longer. You know it's gotten a little bit quieter and we need to probably ask Ken Coleman about this because I've not checked the research and he probably has but if you

remember during the great resignation a whole bunch of people quit their jobs like 24 months after COVID because they realized someday they're gonna die and they wanted to live life right and so this existential crisis hits America. And we have the largest resignation in a 24-month period of time nationwide that we've ever seen, people voluntarily quitting. And during that time, to attract people, people like Target, at $20 an hour,

we're paying tuition. And I wonder if that's still going on. I haven't kept up with that Yeah we need to ask Coleman about that and get that back on on the air because I mean FedEx and Target and Walmart UPS at $20 an hour to go in there and stock shelves and they pay your tuition That's crazy that that was a great deal then if it's still there It's still a great deal and that falls in that same bucket of discussion

Because we're seeing a lot of that that kind of creativity from employers to attract people. So good stuff this is the Ramsey show. All right Dave you have some strong opinions. Possibly yeah I think so okay because you really prefer credit unions over big banks, so why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes

goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on on that kind of thing. And what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric. Yes, well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they've got a scope to be able to handle

the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values, and they've done a really, really good job with customer service, and the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey Tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely, and you're right, their Ramsey Tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account.

And I'm not kidding, it took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day my phone rings and it says fair wins on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience

and I so, so appreciate that. So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy. Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app and you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs. Hey you guys know how much I hate banks in general and so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends

at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys it's incredible. Yeah you guys it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where live. So go to fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S.org Ramsey. Nancy's in Las Vegas. Hi, Nancy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. and thank you for taking my call and it's such a pleasure to speak with you. Well you too, how can we help? Well I recently won 200,000 a little over on a game show. Wow! And I'm 70

years old that's more money than you'll ever have. Can you tell us which game show are you allowed to? The game show was called Snake Oil with David Spade. It was just on for one season. Oh my gosh. Very fun. Yes. Now, so have you gotten hit with the game show tax yet? Yes, I have. And that was approximately $55,000.

Yep. It was California taxes and it was approximately $55,000. It was California taxes and it's pretty expensive. Okay, so that's, your $200 is left over after that or you have $145,000 left? I have $145,000 left of that. Okay, all right. Way to go, Nancy!

I know! That's awesome! So what are you gonna do with your hundred and fifty thousand bucks? So Dave that's what I want to know I'm not sure what to do I'm 70 years old and basically retired oh we're retired my husband and I and I work very part-time and so does my husband because we're still able to we and I, and I work very part time and so does my husband cause we're still able to, and we fill up to it. And right now I have the money. I have actually a little over 200,000 in a money market, which is about a pretty good interest rate, 5.5.

So, um, I, and then we recently downsized and I owe about 85,000 still on our house. Mm-hmm. And I'm not sure if we should pay the house up. I love keeping- Just 200 your entire NIST egg? Yes, besides the equity in our house. Right, but you don't have any other 401k

retirement? No, no. Do you have pensions coming in? We just have Social Security and between two of us that's about 4,500. What's it take you to live a month? Gosh, I don't actually know that's terrible. I don't know exactly. Are you living on social security or social security plus your income? Yes, well we both work part-time too. I make very little money working a part-time job. If I'm lucky I make 600 a month. It's just kind of a fun thing I do. And then my husband makes a couple thousand extra working part-time besides our social security. And of course, we're not going to be able to do that

for ever, seeing as though we're in our 70s. How much is your mortgage a month, Nancy? It's about $7.56 a month. Okay. It is $7.56 a month. Yep. Yep. So the answer to your question is I'm not sure what you should do but we can talk it through together. Okay. If you had $600,000 I would tell you instantaneously write a check and pay off your house today. If you had 100,000, I would tell you not to pay off your house because you would be starved. Right. And you're kind of in the middle.

I know. It scares me that we're getting ready to use half of your money to pay off your house, but it also scares me that you go into your 80s with a mortgage. That's right. So those two things are competing here because we've only got 200,000 to work with. So you know I guess I would say if you do some other things and I'll give you those things I would pay off the house. The other things are I would set up an automatic draft

into a mutual fund possibly a Roth retirement account with a SmartVestor Pro to the tune if you pay off the house you don't have a 756 payment anymore so I'm going to make it at least a thousand maybe fifteen hundred every month going into retirement. Okay. And we can rebuild the 85,000 in just a couple of years doing that. Okay. Because that's 1,500 is 18,000 plus a year plus growth.

So two years would be 36, four years would be 72. So it's gonna take you about three years to get your 85,000 back if you do 1,500 a month. So if you all are willing to get on a detailed budget and sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and open a good mutual fund and move some of that other hundred and something that's left into that mutual fund too so that it's growing. I want it growing more than 5%. Now I do want you to keep about thirty thousand as your emergency fund in the high-yield savings or the money market. But the other

seventy or so after you pay off the house eighty or so you should move that as well into a mutual fund. Now let's talk that through for a second and I'll show you why I'm doing that, okay? Okay, okay. If the mutual, the stock market since it began has averaged meaning some years not some years more right has averaged 11.8 if it didn't do that well and it only made 10 the money that lump

some that you've got that you're going to put in there will double every seven years and So let's not counting what we're adding to it Monthly, but just taking that 75,000 there are so I'm gonna call it 75 for math at 77 it'll be 150 Not counting what you add to it at 84. It'll be 300 not counting what you add to it. At 84 it'll be 300 not counting what you add to it. Okay. And that's if you continue to have your lifestyle be at Social Security plus part-time jobs or less or you're not tapping into this money. Okay. Okay. So you'd have 300,000

in a paid for house plus what you're adding to it, probably close to a half million dollars when you're in your mid-80s. Wow, well that sounds pretty good. In a paid for house. That all sounds good, but you gotta follow through on... But you're in your mid-80s too. I mean that's... I mean mid-80s, I know, I know.

I mean I'm a really young 70, but mid-80s, that's a ways away. Well I can tell, you just won a game show with David Spade. That's not an old 70. Okay. That's not an old 70 right there. So you're awesome. I love you. So yeah, I would pay it off,

but only if you guys agree to number one, get on a tight budget and detail out where every dollar's going. So that number two, I can put500 a month away. Okay. Okay. And sit down with a SmartVestor Pro go to RamseySolutions.com. And if that's too much, $1,500 if they can't swing it. I still would, they can swing it. She's got $6,000 $7,000 a month coming in and she doesn't know where it's all going. Other than it's getting spent and so I mean he's making a little money,

she's making a little money and they got 4500 social security. So they can swing that. I don't know how long they can swing it, but they could do it for three years, they get the money back from the 85. That gives me comfort. That gives me comfort because otherwise we leave them sitting there with almost no money,

or too small on this dig and a paid for house because what we have run into over the years folks is somebody gets to retirement and they have a paid for house and no money they end up digging up the bushes and trying to eat them because there's no money to eat with right I mean you got a some problem here so you got to have some cash in addition to the paid for house we want you debt-free but you got to have some some cash sacrifice and not even. Some investments, not just cash,

but some investments that are outside of your home. But having a paid-for home going into retirement is, it creates a sustainability way beyond somebody has debt going into retirement. Yes, well and considering the mortgage is usually the highest line item for people of what they're paying every single month And that's money. I mean 800 bucks is pretty good. You know what I mean? Like yeah, there's a lot of mortgages a lot more than that Oh, definitely definitely being able to pocket that

Every single month and being able to use that to live off of versus having to pay the mortgage I mean, that's where the math that's where it gets crazy. Yeah, and you know what? The other thing gave me comfort, and I didn't realize it until you were saying that, they've already downsized. She downsized to get to that. That's right, that's right, that's right, yes. And so these people are already noticing where they are.

They're not struggling with reality. Yes, yes. And so that gives me comfort too, because they're reality-based people. And their decision-making is wise. It's clear Yeah, it's real clear and long before they got to this phone call So that that helps make oil David Spade snake oil 200 grand man I thought she was gonna say prices right or 200 grand from snake oil. I didn't she did

This is the Ramsey show This is the Ramsey Show. If you need health insurance for yourself or your family, you might be lost in a maze of confusing terms, overwhelming options, and questions about networks. Not to mention high costs and bad service from insurance companies that don't care about what you want. Common concerns like those are why I'm proud to recommend Health Trust Financial. They've been working with Ramsey for over 20 years and they're the only Ramsey trusted health insurance broker. Health Trust Financial takes an unbiased approach to finding you the best health insurance for your situation. They

listen to your needs and because they work for you, not the insurance companies, their service is free with no obligations and no pressure. Here's the best part. Health Trust Financial customers typically save an average of $500 a month. Health Trust Financial is your one-stop shop for unbiased advice about health insurance options to make sure you don't overpay so get out of the maze by going to health trust financial dot com today health trust financial dot com Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality number one best-selling author, my daughter is my co-host on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions.

Steve and Nina are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Great. How about you? Better than I deserve. Where do you guys live? Danbury, Connecticut. Danbury, Connecticut.

Bit of a haul to Tennessee. Worth the trip. Beautiful. Yes. And a minor haul to Tennessee. Worth the trip. Beautiful. And a minor culture shock too. We like it. Very cool, very cool. Welcome, we're glad to have you. So how much debt did you pay off?

$141,908. Oh my gosh. Wow. How long did this take? 37 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? 115 to approximately 180 Whoa, it's a jump and what kind of debt was the 142 our house

Leaned in on this house these numbers. This is you've been on rice and beans doing the house Yes, baby step two in it just You didn't let off the gas you just went on through Yes, the only thing is our daughter loves beans too much now, so we can Will eat tacos and tuna fish the rest of our life Yeah, where y'all both on agreement for being intense cuz we usually are like, yeah Sorry, you're both like we're gonna gonna just, who wanted it the most though? Like who's the one that, okay, I was like, okay,

I like it, good to know. But towards the end we slowed down a little bit, enjoyed life a little bit more, so. But hey, I mean, golly. Not with this math you didn't. No, I mean, this is pretty serious. I mean, you're making, okay, so, you know, $40,000 a year

that you're paying off out of a 180 or 115. That's leaning in. I mean, you're serious. In addition to normal living, in addition to regular payments. Yeah, well done, you guys. How old are you two? 30.

Wow. Oh my gosh. So what is a house like this in Danbury, Connecticut sell for? About 450. Woo hoo hoo hoo hoo! That's great. And you're 30 years old. Oh, look how pretty. I love it. Oh, Connecticut sell for? About 450. Woo hoo hoo hoo hoo! And you're 30 years old!

Oh, look how pretty! I love it! Oh, it's so pretty, guys. And how much in your retirement nest egg already? Around 220,000 in 401K, and then around maybe 35,000 in cars, and a few 10,000 dollars in various other assets. Yeah, you're measuring towards the net worth.

Yeah, we're getting there, we're getting there. He's reaching for it, he's reaching for it. You're gonna be there easy by the, dollars in various other assets. Yeah you're measuring towards the network. He's reaching for it. You're gonna be there easy by the slam dunk by 35 though. You'll be millionaires. Looking forward to it. Wow I'm so proud of y'all. Thank you. Well done. So what in the world you weirdos? What made you do this? Well it basically all started. I was always into reselling on eBay and various things. And my friend gave me a giant box of books. And I was looking through them. And the Total Money Makeover happened to be in there,

your book. And it looked interesting. So I decided to give it a read. And the rest was history. We had a little bit of debt at the time. We were a new couple just trying to start life. And, you know, it was just a great, you know, just way to just, you know, be free and, you know, high up financial piece through all of life's challenges.

Yeah. So, so basically we started out Ramsey ish about five years ago. We started paying off our consumer debt. But then we kept a credit card, and we weren't budgeting at the time. But that all changed about three years ago when I quit my job. So I was in a really toxic work environment,

I had a really rough boss, and it was really impacting my health. So I was trying to look for other jobs, it just wasn't happening quick enough, and I had a panic attack and I said, you know what, we have an emergency fund, that's it. I'm gonna create an emergency. Exactly.

Exactly. Exactly. But a few weeks later I got another job and it was about a $30,000 pay cut. So at that point we knew we needed to get dialed in, we needed to start budgeting, I cut up the credit card and we were just intentional throughout that time and then we got pregnant with our Cecilia Which will meet shortly and she was in the NICU for a few weeks. She was five early

Yeah, she was five weeks early But thank thanks to God and our family and friends and the fact that we had financial stability We you know, we were able to get through it. And yeah, and then ever since then, we, on our parental leaves, we actually both got better jobs and better paying jobs, and that's why you see that big jump, and I actually ended up going back to the company that I originally left, because that manager was gone, so.

It's great. Yeah, it's, what a full circle moment, right? Yes, absolutely. Of like the kind of person you were when you left. Absolutely. From like health, financial, all of it. And then when you like walk back in, you're like, I am just a different person. That's amazing.

Yes. So great. Well, thanks to you guys. This has been incredible. Really. Well, you guys did it. I mean, absolutely amazing. Okay, so what was the hardest part?

Because I always find it fascinating when families, like they have babies in the middle of doing the baby steps, right? Cause it's a lot, it's a lot of life that you live in that time. But what was the hardest? I think patience. Yeah, being patient and finding community and like-minded people.

But it's hard to come by where we're from. Yeah, a little bit, a little bit. So you got called crazy a lot. Yeah, definitely. A lot. We embraced it. Yeah. Yeah, if your broke friends are making fun

of your financial plan, you're right on track. Yes, yes. And that's always hard too, because you're like, this is amazing, you want everyone to do it, but you know, they have to figure it out themselves. So hopefully this will help. They need to get a free book that was given to them and a box of books that you're getting ready to resale.

Yeah. Golly, you got a bargain. That's awesome. I think the ROI on that's infinite. Yes. That's pretty incredible. Wow, dude. you got a bargain. I think the ROI on that's infinite. That's pretty incredible. Wow, dude, this is so awesome. I'm so proud of y'all.

You're gonna be so freaking wealthy. Thank you. And that's good, cause Steve's kind of money motivated. Yeah, a little, yeah. He's kind of had his eye on that. He's got the nerd moneymaker thing going, yeah. The rainmaker thing, yeah. Very good, you you guys very cool and

y'all are something so now that you don't have single debt in the world and you're making almost 200,000 a year and you're 30 years old what are you gonna do what's how you gonna celebrate we need a new roof yeah I said how are you gonna celebrate we need a new roof? Okay, so that's how we're, woohoo! We're gonna get up on the roof, yeah, all right. Party on the roof, baby! All right, and you need a new car.

Yeah, so I have some bigger cars. What are you driving? Right now Nina has a small Subaru Impreza, so we're hoping to get a bigger family car. 2016, he has a 2017 Silverado. Okay, she's driving 10 year old cars. And so it's time to upgrade mom with a little better car with the baby.

And you can do that in like two months. I mean, it's not a big deal, right? You got no freaking payments. Yeah, think of them. When you start to feel the muscle that you now have, that you've never had before in your life, it's gonna blow your mind how quick you can do stuff.'s crazy so way to go y'all how's it feel feels good feels really good weightless yeah I mean it's nice to have options

and just you know be able to take control of your life right and and do what you you need to do what you need to do, what you wanna do. So yeah, and I mean we have only had a couple months and we had a big tax bill due. So we're like, there's that. Taxes and connected. Yeah, we're like, all right, so we haven't felt it 100% yet, but it's coming, it's coming.

Oh, for sure. For sure. Wow, good for you guys. What do you tell people the secret is to getting out of debt? Definitely budgeting. Yep, being consistent. Yeah, being consistent. And every dollar every day having budgeting meetings.

And just don't make excuses. Yeah. You can definitely do it. And you just got to plan and talk to your spouse and communicate. And that's kind of the key. And that's really impacted our marriage too, for sure. No more money fights.

We're both on the same page. And also, I think just because it's a no right now doesn't mean it's a never. I think that's been really, and even with job stuff, with life, I think that really carries through. Yeah. Yes. Which is a long-term mindset, which is so hard for people

because they don't want the present pain. Right, exactly. Looking forward, okay, so how old is Cecilia now? She's almost two. Is she okay? Oh, did you bring her with you? Yeah, she's here. Okay, is she gonna help you do the scream? Yeah, she's been practicing. All right, well bring her up now? She's almost two. Is she okay? Oh, did you bring her with you? Yeah, she's here. Is she gonna help you do the scream? Yeah, she's been practicing.

All right, well bring her up here. Let's introduce her. I wanna see this beautiful child. Wow, that's wonderful. Very cool, you guys. This child has no idea how big a hero her mom and dad are. They've completely changed their family tree. Everybody look in the camera.

If you've got YouTube going, you can see what heroes look like. This is pretty stinking cool. I'm so proud of you guys. Well done, well done. Steve and Nina and little Cecilia. Danbury, Connecticut. Wow 142 paid off in 37 months making 115 to 180. House and everything! Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt free. I love it. Woo hoo hoo. So good. That is awesome. Sweet girl. Oh my gosh. So good. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on. Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to

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The truth is it's hard. Really hard. When you're self-employed, you typically have a jerk for a boss. They work you to death. They work you into the ground, man. And I know I've been doing it my whole life and I've been coaching with 10,000 small businesses over the last several decades through Entrez leadership and we figured out that there is a clear path through five stages of business and the six things that drive you through those five stages that makes

up what we call the Entrez leadership system which is basically the baby steps for running and growing your small business if you know someone that's doing that the brand new book that we have out build a business you love my brand new book it will come out April 15th, is on pre-sale right now. You can get it for $29.99 and get over $350 in free bonus items. Tens of thousands of you have already bought it on pre-order. Thank you for the support. Thank you for the trust and I promise you it's good.

I promise you it's worth reading and it's definitely worth a lot more than $29.99. Information there should make you millions of dollars. So pre-order today at ramsysolutions.com slash store or click the link in the description and you're on your way. Jackie's with us. Jackie's in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi Jackie, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So my question is I am going blind and I wanted to get some advice on what my husband and I can do financially to set us up for success for the day, which I'm unable to work.

I'm so sorry, Jackie. When did you get this diagnosis? So I got the diagnosis in 2023, but I have a progressive retina disease. So I'm just, my retina cells are dying over time. And from the outside in, my vision is decreasing. So it's been going on for a long time, but I finally, you know, went to the eye doctor, got the diagnosis in 2023. Wow. What, how long are they saying until you're legally blind? Did they give you a timeframe?

10 to 15 years. Yeah. So it's 10 to 15 years at this point. Um, it could be more, it could be less. It just depends. Okay. Oh, so sorry. Well, are you working today?

Yes, I am. Okay. What do you earn today? So between myself and my husband, we bring in $130,000 pre-tax. How much debt do you have not counting your home? We have $19,000 on a car and $650 on a pesky little medical debt. That can go anytime. Okay, so 20 grand makes you debt-free and you make $130,000.

Do you guys have any money saved? Uh, currently about 6,000. Uh, we actually just moved into a super cheap rental. This is like a godsend for us. So we're actually able to save more now than we ever have been. So that's actually why I'm calling because it's the perfect time for us to figure this out. because it's the perfect time for us to figure this out. Okay. The emotion and the, I guess fear is the word, that would, that I would feel if I were in your shoes, would maybe make me reach and try to change some kind of

thing and try to accelerate it and you know try to get into high gear or something so to speak which is kind of why you're calling I think so I completely identify with that if it was me I've never been in that situation but I can only guess how I would react it would it would put me into high gear you know we got to get something we got to get moving here and yeah so here's some interesting numbers for you, okay, that run through my head. We did, about four years ago, Ramsey Research did the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America, okay. When they, the

people reached millionaire status, the vast majority of them 89% of them became millionaires not using inherited money they did it themselves nine out of ten millionaires in America are self-made millionaires okay the the that's good information the second piece of information is it took on average 17 years lots of them did it in 12 interesting number for you okay and what they did was they poured money and cleared their debts and then they started putting money aside into retirement and then they paid off their home. And so when they got to the millionaire status,

they're sitting with a six or an $800,000, $900,000 paid for home, and they're looking at six or eight or $900,000 in their 401k. And they did that in 10 to 17 years, you know, is the range, right? So like I was saying, a lot of them did it in 12. Some of them were longer than 17,

but one third of them had an income under 100,000. So you're ahead on that and your timeframe does that. And so if I step aside from the emotion, which is my reason for bringing it up, and I said, I'm going to work the Baby Steps Millionaire's System. That's your best, your family's best shot at being prepared for this.

And starting kind of from scratch from the home side, they're renting still. So that's gonna be the next big challenge. Well, now I'm gonna get rid of this car payment. Yeah, well getting rid of the consumer debt. Getting rid of this consumer debt in 20 seconds, and then we're gonna build an emergency fund. Then we're gonna save a down payment for a modest home,

and we're gonna put it on a 15-year fixed rate, and then we're gonna start putting 15% of our income into retirement, and we're gonna throw everything else at the house and get it paid off. You're gonna see raises and increases during that decade that that all occurs, and then when the house is paid off you load up all your retirement and other miscellaneous investments you may want to have some outside of retirement some mutual funds outside of retirement

because you may need access to that money if you know your site were to leave before 59 and a half and so but honestly working this standard system we have is the fastest way I know how to get you guys ready and then and I gave y'all I gave y'all the background as to why just now okay yeah Jackie do y'all have kids we do not okay okay how old are you Okay, and so 15 years puts you at 45, 46. Yeah. All right. Right. So yeah, you, okay, there's a term you can remember this to. It's a nuanced issue, but you'll discover it later when you meet with a SmartVestor Pro. I'm gonna give you three or four things to do to go do what I just told you how to do, okay? Now, we're going to load

you up with gifts in just a minute, all right? So, it's called, the term is bridge investing. To have some money in a good mutual fund, a pile of money to fund your family's wants or needs between 45 and 59 because you can't access your Roth IRAs and 401ks until 59 okay so you have you have some non retirement investing in your mix and that might be something that is a little different for you all than I would normally do because I'm giving you 15 years out there of sight, 12 to 15 years, and then things are gonna get rowdy, and we need, you know, I need a half million dollars

laying over there of my million and a half laying over there that I can get to. Not because you're gonna use it all at once, but because you might need the income off of it, and you can't even access that if it's in a Roth until 59 okay right bridge investing all right so here's the things we're gonna send you the full enchilada all right we're gonna give you a financial peace university we're gonna give you every dollar premium which is the budgeting app you

and your husband go through all of those lessons immediately and then tear into this budget, tear into this debt, work these baby steps, get the debt paid off, get the emergency fund saved, get the down payment saved for the house, work baby steps one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, exactly like we teach with great intensity and you have every reason to do that and then I'm gonna send you the book total money makeover that is the baby steps on steroids that shows you exactly how to do all this also and I'm gonna send you the book with the study of millionaires in it in the back of it the white papers in the back of it is called baby steps millionaires so I'm gonna give you every bit of that and then the second piece is I want you to

go to ramsaysolutions.com and click on Smart Vestor Pro and find one in your area that has the heart of a teacher. Meet with them and tell them your story so they can help you begin to plan the investing when you get to that stage. Hang on we'll get you set up with every bit of that and we'll walk with you kiddo you're not by yourself. We're scared with you and we're also excited about how wonderful your future is going to be. This is the Ramsey Show. You know one of the first things I discovered working in the financial

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which is the smartest most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shopped the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years. So you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over

25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch give them a call at 800-356-4282 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that you love, and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author many times over, and of course my daughter, she's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Josh is in Phoenix. Hey Josh, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Josh? Thank you for having me on. Absolutely. What's up man? Hey, not much. I have a quick question for you guys and try to be brief. Me and my wife, we just moved out to Phoenix, Arizona about a year and a half ago for my job. As we moved, she was job hunting and you know,

she sees she falls on social media, some influencers and she's like, man, I can do this. So she was kind of doing that on the side, kind of fun creative thing for her to do while she was job hunting. And a year and a half later, she's kind of blown up all over social media. I mean, we're about, she's about to hit a million subscribers a little over on some Tick talks and Instagram. And we're starting to get some pretty big brand sponsorship, some ad revenue, you know, just stuff like that. That's reaching out to us.

People asking about doing a podcast with her. We haven't said yes to any of this. We don't know how it's really going to affect our family's life. Uh, I know you guys kind of handle this. We don't know if it's like, Oh, this is something that's going to work out well for us. Do we pursue this? And it's a lot of money that some of these brands are thrown at us or people that what's a lot of money, how much podcasts people asking podcasts.

No, I'm talking about how much money you give me a dollar figure. You're talking about she's had a podcast reached. Go ahead. We haven't, we haven't cashed in anything yet. We're just kind of on standby cause we don't know how that's going to affect our family. Um, if we want our family lives on social media, we're starting to have kids. Um, but we've had podcasts, people reach out and say, Hey, let's do an episode 75,000. We've had ad revenue. So they make a video with our, um, product in it. We'll give you 10 grand or 15 grand. And that's for the 32nd video on tick tock. Um,

that number is real. The other one's bull crap. Okay. Nobody's paying you 75,000 an episode for a podcast that hadn't launched. That's what we don't know. Well, she, no, no, people who have a podcast want her to come on. And they're going to pay her $75,000 for being a guest. That's what people are throwing at us. That's like the actual podcaster or some goober agent. Like some goober agent.

Yeah. We don't know what's real. I'm calling BS. Okay. Maybe on that, but on social, it is very common for that size of an audience. To get paid, the ad revenue is very real. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But as far as I said, the first number is very real.

Yes. Okay, and even more. That could be even a conservative number. The podcast number is not, I've done five or six podcasts this week and I haven't been paid for one. Right. So we don't know. And my footprint's a little larger than you're talking about.

I agree. That's why we're reaching out. I'm just saying, it's just not real. I know, but there is a whole world out there and it is wild what people will pay. So all that to say you guys could make, I mean, hundreds of thousands of dollars a year by her just doing this. So you're asking. I hear two questions. One is how do we control it impacting our family and what do we do with the money? Is that the two questions? Yes, sir. Like how lucrative is this? Is it worth doing it? And you guys, I know you guys are all over social media. And so how has it affected your family with people knowing

about your lives and trying to... You know, we just don't know. Is this something we want to dive into and explore or is this gonna ruin our lives type of thing? I think it's all on how you guys approach it, how you position it and the role that it plays in your life. So I do think that they're very healthy to create boundaries where you guys want. And I would be stricter on the boundaries early on.

And as you get used to something, maybe you're a little bit more flexible and you're like, yeah, that can kind of move. We feel good with that. I don't do it for a living. And I do think there's a world out there, yeah, where this is their world and their life and their family is their content completely.

And so with those people that I've talked to in that space, a lot of them do have very strict guidelines of times that they shoot, times they don't. Cause I do think this mingling of the phone and social and videoing everything for content, which is the job essentially, I think it does affect the family in a very negative way over time.

And so, for you guys, just to say, yeah, we can enter into this space, but from 5 p.m. to 8 p.m., we're not filming this stuff. Like, we may do some content here or there throughout the day. I don't know, do you know what I mean? I feel like you have to be very, very, very intentional in seeing it as a job versus it being so fluid

with your life because people that I see do that, it just takes over. It consumes everything if you're not careful. It's like a reality TV show being in your house. Yeah, that's it. And you're the camera crew. Yeah, totally, totally. The other piece I would add to that is just to say,

you can make decisions about kids and those kinds of things. You also need to make decisions about subjects that are not going to be on the air. What parts of our life are our life and they don't go on the air. The first 10 years Rachel was married, no one ever saw Winston, he hated it. Now he's Mr. Internet, but in the last two years,

he's embraced it, right? But John Delaney's kids' faces don't show up on his. He puts cartoon covers over them. Rachel shows her kids. Yeah, I put mine on sometimes. So forth. But again, Rachel made a comment there that's accurate. We're not in that business. We utilize social media, but we, Rachel made a comment there that's accurate. We're not in that business.

We utilize social media, but we're not in the business of quote being an influencer or running a reality show over our Instagram or something. We're using it, we're utilizing the platform differently. So we're monetizing it differently, number one. Number two, we don't have to have quite the shoot schedule that you guys might have Can I say this too? Yeah, I would and I don't know how you would I don't know how you would discern this Josh, but

Somewhere along lines that this can be an industry I think because I could feel myself get into it that you make money so fast and pretty quick like he's true like like yeah I need three stories back-to-back and we'll pay you 15 grand and you're like oh my god it can end up being golden handcuffs where you're making so much you're making you know 400 500 plus thousand dollars a year and it is work I'm not saying it's not but it's like how could we say no if it ever got to a point where it's stressful and starting to ruin the family it could be a hard no to stop because it's such like lucrative money. Does that make sense? You get addicted to it.

Well, yeah, and it's like, even if it's ruining us, it's such easy, it's money's right there, like, oh my gosh, that would be so hard. So it's like, there would be some hard and fast rules of stopping if you could lay out ahead of time, which I think is hard, but it can be a golden handcuff kind of thing where you end up sacrificing the family in a sense, even if it's going down,

because it's just a lot of money. Does that make sense? And people feel that in other jobs too. Rachel's in a group of ladies that you would know all of their names and they meet periodically that are friends and some of them that is their gig. And so she's getting the inside scoop on what they're making in that group and I don't I'm not in the middle of that but I've heard the numbers and I know some of the ladies were talking about and they are making bank. So, her advice is dead on.

What I would tell you is this, the ones I see get messed up and I'm looking in from the outside are the ones who this becomes their God rather than God being their God and rather than their family is first, their relationships are first, and this is just a job. It's all it is. And so it doesn't take over. It's in the fourth rung down the ladder of importance. So we get to it when we get to it, but we're not sacrificing the child's mental health

or our personal relationship, and we're not violating people, you know. But other than that, I think you try it. I think you put some boundaries on it and move forward and don't believe everything you hear and try to cash some checks. It's Holy Week in Jerusalem and the city is restless. The people of Israel welcome Jesus as king, his followers ready for revolution. But instead of taking the throne, Jesus turns the tables.

Wall to you scribes and Pharisees. How will you escape being condemned to hell? Experience Holy Week like never before. What have you done? Coming soon to theaters, the chosen Last Supper. Get your tickets now. I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships. That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships Tour to a city near you. Join me and Dr. John Delaney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff

and possibly change how you live forever. Starting April 21st will be in Louisville then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City. Grab your tickets at ramsysolutions.com slash tour before they're gone. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personalities, my co-host and special guest, special gift for you guys to get to meet one of my favorite people on the planet, Lewis Howes. And you've been listening a long time, you've met him before because it's not your first trip on this cabbage truck. But Lewis is a New York Times bestselling author, keynote speaker, former professional

football player, member of the USA men's national handball team, multiple best sellers, has an incredible show called the School of Greatness. I've been a guest on it, Rachel's been a guest on it, everybody, and he's been a guest here many times. We're just friends in this space of helping people change their lives. Welcome my friend, welcome back. Thank you very much, appreciate you guys. Good to see you. The new book is Make Money Easy. So he's on the money show to do that.

Yeah. Create financial freedom and live a richer life. Very, very cool. Because most people try to make it hard. They do. So make it easy. Make it easy. And kind of in a different way.

We were on my show earlier and I love the setup because it's not about, or you can say it, but it's not about the investing and the interest rates and the mutual funds and all of it. It's so much more, it's about the emotion, the heart, the feelings behind money, which you have to get right or it'll ruin you. The stuff that Dave loves talking about the most, the feelings, you know, that's what we talked about earlier.

Dave's big old feelings. Loves the feels. Yeah, because you guys are the money experts. I was just coming to this approach of like, I see so many people struggling with money, trying to understand it. I didn't understand it growing up and I was afraid of it. So I was like, how do I have a better, healthier relationship with the idea of money when I receive it, when I spend it,

when I give it, all these different things. It was very messy for me. I learned how to make it, but I almost felt trapped by it still. I still felt like I was living in kind of an anxiety, a stress, an emotional like scarcity around it, even though I had a lot of it in the bank. So what made it easy? Well, getting in touch with my feelings is as weird as that sounds, but kind of going back in the past and assessing my money story.

And I grew up at a time in the eights when my parents didn't have a lot. They got married very young. They worked very hard trying to make ends meet for kids. I was the youngest and essentially I didn't have a good belief system around money. And there was different moments and memories that I created meaning around these money stories that was like, okay, I'm not good at making it. I don't understand it. There's a lot of stress involved around money with my parents, therefore. Starts to feel like it's for someone else. Yeah, and it was like scary.

And I was like, how can I receive it if I don't understand it? And as I started making it, it was out of survival to get off my sister's couch. I was living on her couch for about a year and a half when I was 23 to 25. And I just wanted to feel like I could take care of my own life.

And so I started finding many mentors, started watching some of your stuff, learning from people locally in Ohio. And I started making it, but I didn't feel safe with it and I hoarded it. So I was like, what's the point of all this money if I still don't feel good? If I still feel like something's off inside of me.

Amen. And so it's really been a journey over the last decade of, okay, I've got financial peace, but I have a lack of emotional peace still. And that feels really scary. Yeah, and the tricky thing is we live in a world where they say if you just have success and money, everything's fine.

Yeah, money. And it was the absolute opposite. That's a lie. Money didn't solve my problems. That's right. It helped me have an apartment to live in and buy things, but it didn't make me feel emotionally safe. Yep.

And so I was like, what's the point of all this then, if I can't feel safe with the money I have? And I also feel like it's triggering so much more of my, what do we want to call it, wounds or scarcity, where I felt like people were taking advantage of me, they were hurting me, they just wanted to be around me because I was making money. So I felt unvalued even with the money I had.

I was like, what's the point of all of this? Yep, totally, getting to that. So that's the approach of this conversation. So you just cycled back through each one of those things, touched them and went, okay, I'm gonna own this so that it doesn't own me. Exactly, because every time someone poked my emotional wounds, I would react in bigger ways.

And I think the money just made me feel even more scarce around it. So it was really going back into the money story and healing a lot of these parts of me where I felt broken and feeling more emotionally whole so again, I could truly have the financial peace. Well, I think it's such a great example when we say money is a magnifying glass, we've been saying that for years, and that's it, right?

Where you're like, all of this was in you, in all of us, and then when you start to win with money, you are magnified, the good and the bad of us. And if you don't go back to those bad parts, which are coming out as stress, coming out as anxiety, all of that, yeah, it's like, what am I doing? I was almost better off without all this.

And it's like, what do I do? And that's almost better off without all this. And you know what I mean? And it's like, what do I do? Because- And that's where I've seen a lot of people kind of sabotage the money they have, because they're like, it didn't solve the problem. Let me spend it all and just go back to being broke. Yeah.

Or spend it on vices to- Everything. Medicate or whatever. To numb the emotions, right? And you know, Dave's favorite thing to talk about is feelings here. Yes, yes. And so it's really getting to a place. I had interviewed Dave earlier

and we'd had a joke about feelings. But it's really getting, for me, it was getting to a place, I had interviewed Dave earlier and we'd had a joke about feelings. But it's really getting, for me, it was getting to a place, I just wanna feel more at peace and having financial peace is one part of the picture, but it amplified my lack of inner peace. And that has to affect relationships too. Every relationship. Like you said, somebody's out to get it,

or I'm being looked at as a transaction here. And at the first time I met you, you're now happily married. When I first met you many years ago, you were a single guy. Had to affect the dating relationships. Everything. It affected all my relationships. Business partnerships, friends, family. I had some stuff with family I had to deal with

because now I'm the youngest and I'm making the most. And it felt, I just didn't know how to create boundaries. I didn't know how to have courageous conversations. I didn't want to upset people. I wanted everyone to like me. So let me just give them what everyone's asking for. But then I feel taken advantage of. Now I resent people.

Now I resent. All these emotions were swirling around the center of money. How did the spiritual part of you kind of weave into some of this too, because that was a big part of your story. Yeah for me it was you know getting I really appreciate every time I get to talk to you Dave because I feel like I get to ask you these questions every now and then and I don't hear you talk about them that much and I'm always like I'm worried about asking a weird question to Dave around spirituality or relationships or feelings but I get so

much value out of it so I appreciate you for sharing these things and opening up when I talk to you about it. But for me, I got to a place where I was always making more money in my business, and then one year I made less. And I remember the last time I talked to you, you were like, we made less in the last year. It was still a ton of money, but you were like,

it wasn't as much as the year before. And when that happened to me, it kind of broke me psychologically. I mean, it didn't ruin my life, but I was like, I was trying to grasp like air because I couldn't control me not making more money this year or something. Like some things happen, shifts, and it messed with me.

And I had to get to a place of really connecting more with God and faith. They're like, money's going to come and money's going to go. Whether I get way more money this year or next year, I'm gonna be okay. If I make less, I'm gonna be okay. As long as I live in the values that you guys talk about, which is we're here to serve, I'm gonna keep showing up and giving my best,

I'm gonna live with generosity, and I'm also to keep reflecting on how I can improve and shift things and not just be a victim to what's happening, make decisions, make changes, but I'm here to serve. And I think living in that state makes- That's such a free. I feel emotionally free. Because it's other centered rather than self-centered. 100%. And all that crap is self-centered that you were dealing with before. Yes. And I was ego driven.

Exactly. Not always, but it was like, I need to make more and it needs to look good. And what if the followers are down and what if they're ready? Totally. And I just said, screw all that. Let me serve, let me add value, and good things are gonna happen. Which goes such against the grain too of the applause of the world, right? And so some people are out there and they're like,

this may not be what you're specifically talking about, but it's like, well, I want the nice car to feel like I'm successful. You can plug in any element of this, and you're fighting against the world for what the world applause is versus what's really true in our piece of what you in our peace. And God's applause. Yeah. Make Money Easy is the new book by our friend Louis Howes. Recommend you pick it

up immediately. You'll notice it by the little kind of dull green cover. Look bright, got a battery in the back. I love the color Excellent makes it jump off the shelf marketing brother good marketing. Well done So we say money is 80% behavior 20% head knowledge and that really those behaviors almost flow out of The piece that you're talking about or don't flow out of the talking about so it's not really managing the behaviors, it's managing the, uh, the emotional state to get to the behaviors. Well, you know, and you talk about this, our beliefs influence our behavior.

So if we believe we're not worthy, we're probably going to not create an experience or the working environment or opportunities that add more to our life. If we believe we're unworthy of love, or if we believe we're worthy, then we're going to step into things naturally and behave in accordance and alignment with that belief. Absolutely. Absolutely. If we believe we're unworthy of love, or if we believe we're worthy, then we're gonna step into things naturally

and behave in accordance and alignment with that belief. Lewis Howes, make money easy. Create financial freedom and live a richer life. Highly recommend it. Recommend this guy. Be sure and check out his show, The School of Greatness. You'll love it. This is The Ramsey Show.

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every detail you take care of. So start taking care of them at knockbox.com slash Ramsey. A well-organized legacy is a gift to your family. That's nokbox.com slash Ramsey. Listen guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. The truth is you get to decide what happens with your money. And if you want to start winning with money you have to get on a budget. The Every Dollar Budget app makes it easy for you to plan every dollar you've got coming in and every dollar going out. Plus it's free. So no more excuses. Go download every dollar in the App Store

or Google Play today. Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Wirefy. Feeling stuck with defaulted private student loan payments? Wirefy can reduce your payments and help you regain control of your money. Take the first step toward getting unstuck. Go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter y, r-e-f-y dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Kayla in Montana. I want a new car.

My husband lives and breathes by Dave's rules and he thinks we can't afford one. We're both 35 years old and together bring home $700,000. Our only debt we have is our $600,000 mortgage on our home and a $65,000 rental home. Our net worth is close to $1 million. We have two young daughters and plan to add it to our family soon. so I want to save up and buy a new mid-sized SUV this year my husband wants to purchase a used full-size SUV and keep it for a minimum of seven years which one of us is correct I don't understand the my husband wants to purchase a use it and keep it for a minimum of seven years Do you get it? He wants to buy a brand new car. Oh

Bray Oh by new I hear I hear yeah, he wants to buy a used one and keep it. Okay. I okay. I see I see Yeah, so um The problem here Kayla is not the car and the problem here is not your husband following the Ramsey rules because your husband's not following them. The Ramsey rules include working with your spouse and being on the same page with your spouse and you Kayla have nothing to do with anything here. You just stand back and ask for stuff and he decides if he's going to give it or not. That is not a Ramsey rule. anything here, you just stand back and ask for stuff. And he decides if he's going to give it or not. That is not a Ramsey rule.

Instead, you should be like a grownup person, not a child wanting something from her daddy, and be one of the two votes on where this freaking $700,000 goes. That is what we teach. We don't teach what your husband is doing, nor what you are doing. And so you guys gotta get talking about,

okay, here's the future I want, and here's the steps it's gonna take to get to the future. Yeah, and how do we get there? How does a car purchase fit in that future? But you sound like a 16 year old having a hissy fit because your daddy won't buy you a car. And that's just ridiculous. That's not the position you should be in as the wife. No, but she may feel on the other end of the coin, frustrated if they're making seven. There's a serious amount of pouting in this now but if they make if they make seven

hundred thousand dollars a year they make plenty of money that's what I'm saying she doesn't like hey can we spend fifty grand on an SUV and he's like nope nope nope nope and she's like they're not but they're not this is again this is like daddy we got the money no daddy say no we don't have the money I follow Dave well you don't follow Dave because you don't treat your wife like a 16-year-old child. Your wife is a full-grown woman and stuff.

And so she needs to be involved in the discussion. The thing is positioned wrong. Okay, that's the front, okay. That's my point. Okay, so what if they're both adults and they're both saying, and she's like, listen, we have plenty of money. We can do this.

Our net worth is- What we teach is and what I lived with my wife who had a vote and I had a vote, what you have lived with your husband who had a vote and you had a vote was that we don't buy a brand new vehicle because they go down in value regardless of your income until you have a million dollar net worth

and you darling don't have a million dollar net worth. And so no, I would not buy a house. I would buy a two year old SUV. And I don't think you have to keep it seven years. I don't care how long you keep it, but you buy used cars and let someone else take the butt kicking on the depreciation. You don't spend money on things that go down in value

like a rock while you're trying to get out of debt and build wealth, even if you have a $ hundred thousand dollar income because they do have a six hundred thousand dollar mortgage right so I'm like there's like something wrong where the heck is all this money going right right I mean my gosh you gotta build right a check by that SUV and not even had this discussion or the rental house pay off the rental house and get your house paid off right and live on a hundred thousand one year what the flip are you people doing? I mean, there's money going out of here

like you guys are in Congress. So, yeah, and you know, but the immaturity in this is just dripping. Yeah, that's fair. So the positioning of it is wrong. So you guys need to be, like we're both gonna sit down, we're both gonna say, okay, this is the principles we're going to use in our house and based on those principles

We are going to make these decisions together, and that's not him dictating that to you or you Dictating it to him. This is we're gonna decide where we're going and if you want to follow the Ramsey rules It would be Ram I don't know that Ramsey has rules if you want to follow the processes that we teach that have caused people to build wealth It is two grown-ups working together toward an agreed goal and the shortest possible distance between here and that goal. Two grown-ups. Now they come at it from different angles we can have discussions based on our different personality styles or different histories we can have all

kinds of discussions here but it's never I want a car and Dave Ramsey my husband's a Dave Ramsey nut and he won't buy me a car and that's exactly the way this sounds I think you're offended but no I mean it's just I'm kidding no it's the I'm not offended at all I know the but you're right I and I think the frustration comes from when we've talked to so many married couples the positioning well, and I think the frustration comes from when we've talked to so many married couples. The positioning. Well that and it reveals the state of the marriage and probably how it is.

And you care more about their marriage in that sense. You as people need to become healthier and these decisions coming out of that become way more peaceful and more mature. If you want me to get really tacky, I could start guessing how he makes $700 a year that causes him to be the daddy. What?

I could do that. And I probably would be right, but I won't. That's tacky. So I think I know what he does for a living. And that he- Like a whole life guy or something? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He's in an industry where he's God and he's used to being in charge. Oh.

And he makes a ton of money. His power. And he's used to telling people what to do all day long and his wife is on the list of people he tells what to do. And so she's adopted the position of kid rather than wife. And that's where the seven, assuming he makes all the 700K, I got a feeling she doesn't make hardly any of the 700K

or she'd be raising up even heavier. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. If she made the 700K, we might not have got the email. Mm-hmm. So, in the way this thing's positioned. So this is the dynamic we're talking about. Why are we covering this and why are we making, poking such holes in it

is because in all the millionaires we've studied, the data is very clear. 80 plus percent of them have a solid marriage relationship where the two of them are both aligned on the goals and the process to get there. And have equal. The guy's not like, well, my wife won't give me any money. I work all day, and she treats him like he's 15 years old. He brings a check home and gives it to mama and mama don't take care of him.

And you know, we don't hear that from the millionaires or the, or the other, or the vice versa, which is this one. Yeah. The dictator, you know, yeah. And that we don't, this model right here of relationship does not, the data does not bode well for this model. It says you're not going to do well. I don't even care if you make 600k.

You cannot out earn your stupidity. I've tried it. So that doesn't work. Well yeah, and money is such a reflection though. It's kind of what we were talking about with Lewis in the last segment. It's a reflection so much of who you are in your character and the health of you, right? And money either magnifies those healthy versions of you or it magnifies the unhealthy broken sides,

which we all have both. Including relationships. Including the marriage. So him bringing in or them, she says we bring home together 700,000, so I don't know who brings it home, but the idea that you're making a lot of money is magnifying through a car purchase

some of those dysfunctional parts of the marriage. And looking at that and becoming healthier in that fixes some of this but and I don't want that I guess maybe I did rise up on this I'm thinking about it emotionally I don't want any of you using our name or the stuff we teach as a weapon in your house and That's what's going on here. He lives and breathes by Dave's rules and thinks We can't afford one. So he's using like he's like bad guying off of us. Well, Dave says you can't do that Right instead of actually manning up and walking through the concept

Mm-hmm and getting agreement based on logic instead you blame it on somebody off in the podcast land And that's complete cowardice You know so yeah quit using my name as a weapon pisses me off. This is the Ramsey show I knew that was in there Hey guys George Campbell here, do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're

getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey Trusted Insurance Pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash insurance, ramsysolutions.com slash insurance. Bob is with us in Pennsylvania.

Hey Bob, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Good afternoon, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? I want to preface my question by saying thank you for giving us the tools to be financially successful. Cool. We've been drinking the cool, drinking the Kool-Aid for six years and life is way different

today than it was. Well, thank you, sir. I'm glad. That means, thank you. That being said, I'm still paying for some of the sins of the past. We are co-signed on five private student loans for two of our children to the tune of 37.5. Total? 37.5 each or total? Total. Okay, good. Okay. I'm about passed out. Okay. Okay, okay About passed out. Okay

They are struggling financially and some months we're cosigned so we've signed up for it We have to make some payments on these loans. We have five hundred dollars a month in our budget We don't ever exceed that but we use it most months. So my question is Should we we're in baby step six fully funded emergency fund? Do we back up the baby step two and pay these off? I don't really want to give them a free pass What do we continue to just use our monthly budget to? Make the process continue How many kids

How many kids? We have three. Two of them are involved in this process. Child number one's, his loans are done. Okay. And what do you guys make? What's your household income? One fifty. 150. All right. Um, yeah, I don't want to give them a free pass, but when you co-signed, you did that free passes already out the door. Um, I wish they had, uh, gone out and built careers based on their education enough to pay 37,000 bucks, which is not Like the largest number of hours. It's not 20 15 20, you know each if they were smart, I mean I wish that that's really should be very reachable

So I'm trying to think what I would do. How old are these two? 32 and 26 and they each have about half of it. Okay I'm hesitant to try to teach someone that old a lesson even if it's my kid. You know what I'm saying? And so, if this was a younger, a little fresher, I might say, okay, I'm gonna. 22 or something. I'm gonna, I may pay it off,

but I'm gonna weave into that some kind of thing where they pay it back or something like that. But I think this is already way down the river, it feels like. These kids have been out of school a long time. Right? Well the 32 year old is one semester away from finishing his doctorate so he's really been a student for a while. In what? The young in music. What's he planning on doing with it Bob? Do you know? Professor. He was his goal was to be a professor and I think he got very close to the end and decided that I don't know that I want to do that and he kind of

just bailed. There's no use for a PhD in music then. I mean the knowledge base you got could be useful in the music world but the PhD is not necessary for it's not it's not an entry barrier Wow! Yeah it's a tough call. Yeah it is. I'm struggling with it a little bit because and what I'm trying to have go through my head is, you know, Rachel's in her thirties. If this was me, am I going to just pay this and go, okay, it's my fault, my mistake.

She ain't getting around to it by now. I was like, not probably not going to. I need to get this off my plate for my sake. And that's what's running through my head. I think you need to clear it for your sake. Even though I'm pretty aggravated at these two, I wish they had done better. I'm not really yell at them but I'm mildly aggravated like $37,000 worth and so you know but I think for your sake, your wife's sake, this is gonna haunt you and nag at you and nip at your heels and bite you every three months.

You gotta make a payment and all that and you've got a good income. I would probably go back to beans and rice and just clear this like in a year and get it out of my life and not worry about it and then let the chips fall where they fall. And if the kids wake up one day and send you a check, I'd cash it.

But if they don't, fine too, and not gonna worry about it. The big deal is not, it's not about them, it's about you. And so I think looking at it through that lens, that tells me you pay it. So would you dump the emergency fund and start over? Yeah, how much is in it? How much is in it? Just things in 30.

30? We're a little short. 30, yeah, yes I would yeah yeah I just start clearing them off and then you got to decide what you know send your children an email or and to follow up with a phone call and go we paid this off not for you but because we wanted it out of our life we feel like you're still responsible for this but you do with that what you want or something like that. But I'm not going to add to a burden or take

away a burden from them necessarily. But they need to know it's paid off because they're going to see the thing has the zero balance. So you need to talk about it. And then even the strings attached element still affects the relationship, right? Like if you were like, I still expect you to pay me back, you know what I mean? I really wouldn't go into that level. I just go, you do what you think is right. We paid it off and we didn't pay it off for you. We paid it off for us.

That's the true statement. Because you didn't, you didn't pay it off to help them. You paid it off because you were stupid and co-signed and now you got to clear it. Me too. I did that too, okay? Not with student loans, but I've done it with other stuff. So not picking on you. um, and I'm sorry. I it's that's a bit of a quandary though It's an interesting discussion. Thanks for having it with us. I

think I'm going to approach it through what's good for you and your wife and Let the 30 year olds figure it out. What was your gut Bob you and your wife? Did you guys have a strong opinion or leaning a certain way either one of you? We've kind of declared war on our mortgage holder and we're down to 102. Oh man! Every single dollar has been going to that. So this will put that on hold probably for about a year because we last year we paid almost 32,000 on principal. How old are you guys? 61 and 58. Yeah, you're gonna be there.

You'll be there in a heartbeat. And this is gonna just change, because every time this bill comes, you revisit all the emotions. And if I'm you, I selfishly don't want that anymore. That's what I mean. It's like a dog biting me once a month. You know what I'm I if I'm you I selfishly don't want that anymore. That's what I mean. It's like a dog biting me once a month You know I'm saying I

Absolutely know what you're saying. So I I'm fighting for you guys and and And and I think it's just the last thing you do to clean up and Your kids are just too old to put them in some kind of headlock and teach them a lesson, is my opinion. I can't imagine, I mean my kids are similar ages and I just can't imagine doing that. I can't imagine it working, is what I mean. I can imagine doing it, but I can't imagine it working. Forcing us into a life lesson. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, that's so hard. I mean, if they're 22, you can sit them down and have a good talking to, you know, a little come to Jesus meeting, but they're not 22. And it's just, it is another example which we have. Never. We have a textbook full of these examples of cosigning. Never cosigning. But I mean, it's this, and thank God, you know, Bob, they have the money.

We talked to a lot of people that cosigned for a car and they can't even make the payment nor the person that could, you know, have the, like, but, but again, it's the relational aggravation and strain that debt causes on people and it's, and it's not worth it. And I know he said they're still paying for it. It's kind of like almost the stupid tax idea. By the way, junior went on and worked on his PhD while he didn't pay the loan. Yeah. Even paying for that.

So, Oh my gosh. So, pretty inconsiderate of mom and dad. When your job was to clear the loan. You're not even making your payments on time. You're 33 freaking years old. While you're working on a PhD, that marketplace value if you're not gonna be a professor is not probably one worth what you paid for it.

So, wow, unbelievable. Thanks for the call Bob. Professor it'll come back. Oh man, I'm sorry. Thanks for having the discussion with us. I think you guys are fine. You're still going to be multi-millionaires. You're still going to get your house paid off and you won't have the next three years of aggravation and that's good. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free.

Yep, you heard me right. For free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. Alright, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.