The Ramsey Show - Re-Imagine What a Life Well Lived Looks Like

Episode Date: June 14, 2024

💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! George Kamel & Dr John Delony answer your questions and discuss: Getting back on your feet after a divorce, "Should I pause the Baby Steps to go to Money & Marriage?" "What does a live well lived really mean?" When and how to combine finances when you get married How to help an elderly parent plan for the future, Making $88K and we can't afford to pay our debt. Support Our Sponsors: NetSuite Zander Insurance BetterHelp Health Trust Financial Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! ☂️ Get the right insurance without breaking the bank. 🏠 Find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent 🚢 The Live Like No One Else Cruise is booking fast! Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by the one, the only, Dr. John Deloney. And we're here to serve you, America, to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. And the way you interact with the show is you call us at the number 888-825-5225. If you should be so lucky, our phone screener, Christian, will let you through the lines, and you will have the privilege, the honor of talking to Dr. John Deloney.

May the odds be ever in your favor. There you go. Hannah's kicking us off in Atlanta, Georgia. Hannah, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. What's going on? So I was in a toxic relationship and ended up getting divorced. Me and my ex-husband had a few car loans and we had an apartment together. Once the divorce or during going through the divorce,

I ended up losing my job. And with that, I ended up losing my apartment that I had, and I also ended up losing one of my cars. So I have one collections that equals about 3000. I have a car repo. That's about 12,000. We did have a car loan that was joint together. Um, and I just realized or found out recently that the car loan that we had together has also been repoed. So I have about $55,000 in debt. $52,000 of it is in repo, $3,000 in collections. And I don't know what to do, if I should file bankruptcy or what steps I need to do. So sorry. This is like a terrible country song. Just one thing after another.

Are you back to work now? I am, thank God. I have a job and I'm making about $2,500 a month. Okay. Do you have any kids? I do not. Okay. What job are you doing making $2,500 a month?

I actually work in a dental office. I'm just one of the receptionists there. Okay. Is that enough to pay your bills? Luckily, I live with one of my friends, so my rent is not that expensive. I pay about $800 in rent. Okay. Both George and I, George is going to walk you through the math of all this,

but both him and I, I know there's a season when you just get get beat up and beat up and beat up and beat up and the smoke clears and all that I get that but I want more than just $2,500 a month and you rent a room from a friend for your life I have a bigger I have a bigger vision for you for than that okay and we'll talk to you how to get different kinds of work or expand that but $2, bucks man that's got scratching by these day uh these days um i actually am in college right now um because of all of this i needed a better life for myself um so i'm actually in school right now good for you i'm going to be a nurse good okay amazing then i take back everything i just said good on you

you're incredible that's awesome good are Are you working full time while doing nursing school? Yes, I am. Wow. Good deal. Okay. So we make $2,500 a month. Do you have a car now? I do.

I paid cash for it. Okay. And you owe nothing else except for the $52,000 in repo, $3,000 in collections. Was the $3,000 in collections for a car? What was that for? That was for the apartment that we had. During the divorce, I actually ended up losing the apartment because I lost my job. I couldn't pay for it.

Okay, so this is kind of like the eviction settlement, missed payments, breaking the lease, all that? Yeah. Okay. Well, the good news is you have a place to lay your head that's safe and affordable you have a car to get you to and from work you have work so there's a lot of good things happening uh after what you've just experienced which is straight up hell so how much money do you have right now left over after you pay your bills every single month? I was doing the math last night after my expenses because I am paying for college myself.

So I'm not taking out any student loans. After all of my expenses, I have about $300 left every month. Okay. You could start attacking these debts with. How much is school costing you? How are you able to cash flow nursing school? Well, I am going to a technical college, so it's about, I mean, maybe $1,500 every semester. But I'm just saving as much as I can a month to go towards that, so I don't have to take out any student loans. Hannah, for the repos, do both of those happen in georgia yes okay so when they get repoed the the whoever repossesses the cars the person who holds the title sells those cars and what he sells or she sells that car for goes against the note so you don't owe fifty53,000 on those two cars. They owe the deficiency balance.

They should have sent you a number saying, here's what you owe us now that we have sold these cars for X number of dollars. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold those cars to their buddy for an insanely low deal. I don't know how that all works, but you should not owe the total balance of $53,000. Okay. Have you been in contact with the repo folks? No.

Actually, the only way I found out about this was I just pulled up my Credit Karma and saw that the account was closed. Okay. And so I contacted the lender, and that's when i found out that it had been well and some of these that get repossessed if they sell the car and the price they fetch is higher than what you owe on it they actually owe you that money back or have some sort of split depending on what state you're in so i can imagine if they sold a $20,000 car and you owed $18,000,

that they just kept that $2,000 and just didn't call you yet. Yeah. Do you have any communication with your ex? I don't, no. He has me blocked on everything. I can't contact him at all. Okay. And have you let them know that this debt is partially with an ex that you have no contact with?

Yes. Okay. I would be proactive in talking to them. I don't want them coming after you because you've been ignoring them. I want them to know you by name going, hey, she calls every week just updating us. Here's what I can pay. Here's where things are at. Here's my plan.

And so I would work on getting on some sort of payment plan with them just to show that you're making effort to pay this off. And then, like John said, once you know the exact amount that you owe, now we can make a plan to say, how can we negotiate this? Can we get a lump sum saved up? How do we attack this so that we can get this out of your life and have you move on? But the only way out of this thing is to get rid of this debt off your record and out of your life. And Hannah, please, please, please don't file bankruptcy. You're nowhere near that case. Okay? Please don't file bankruptcy. You're nowhere near that case. Okay?

Please don't do that. That was the thing I didn't know if I should or what direction I should go in. We've seen worse situations. Way worse. And we still didn't tell them to file bankruptcy. And so there is hope for you yet. The key here is it's hard because you're in school. You're not going to be able to take on extra side hustles and get your income up while you're in school.

So how long until you're out of school and working? I've only been in school a year now. This is my second semester. How long is the program? A bachelor degree for nursing is four years. Okay, so you could foreseeably be doing this for a while, living this life where you're trying to work full-time, school full-time, and trying to tackle the debt?

Yeah. Okay, I've done that. I've-time, and trying to tackle the debt? Yeah. Okay, I've done that. I've done it, and it's not fun, but it's definitely doable, okay? We 100% believe in you, but don't take... What I don't want you to do is I don't want you to take the pain of this divorce

and then spread it over the next seven years with a bankruptcy on top of it. You've been through enough hurt. Don't do that. Hang on a line, Hannah. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, as well as Financial Peace University. We want to walk with you as you climb out of this hole and start whatever's next for Hannah. We are cheering you on. This is The Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine

experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite, there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data.

And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Listen, selling the house the Ramsey way makes home ownership a blessing instead of a burden. And the Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find an agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here on The Ramsey Show and get the best offer for your house or find the right house for you. We're going to send you some of the top agents in your area who we trust. We vet them and you

get to review their stats. You get to interview them. You decide which one you want to work with. And these agents have years of experience. They're pros. They've sold a lot of houses. They know what they're doing. They're going to help you make those decisions when it comes to pricing and marketing and making or choosing the right offer. So go ahead and find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent for free at ramseysolutions.com slash agent. All right, let's head out to Philadelphia up next. We've got Jessica there. How's it going, Jessica? Hi, George. Hi, Dr. John. It's great to talk to you. It's even better to talk to you. How's it going? Well, here's my question. Would it be beneficial to pause Baby Step 2 for about two months in order to cash flow attending the Money in Marriage conference in February?

That's a loaded question. Sophie's choice. I have my answer. What's the state of your marriage? Oh, it's a really good marriage. We have four kids. Three of them are teenagers. One almost is a teenager. We're really busy with that. My husband's an elementary school principal. The last four years have been really crazy with his job. And he's also in grad school right now going for his doctorate in education.

So we're busy. And when I hear the Money in Marriage Conference being advertised, I'm like, I want to do that. I want to go with him and just invest in our marriage. And I think it would be really awesome. We've started the Dave Ramsey plan about a year ago, which was a month after buying a car and financing like half of it. Oh, boy. How far away from becoming debt-free?

So we should be in beginning of Baby Step 3, like in March of 25, if we didn't do the conference. Okay. It would put us on hold by about two months. Well, here's the good news. It's not the first or last time we're going to do this thing. And so I would personally tell you— I could get fired at any moment, George.

Yeah, that's true. Jessica, if you were my friend and if it was any other event, I'm going to tell you don't do this right now. I think John was saying, hey, is this on fire? Like your marriage is more important than anything. If this is the one thing that's going to save the sinking ship, then we would say, all right, this is worth saving your marriage over. But this is not a crisis situation. This is a luxury to travel, to get lodging and transportation and go have fun for a weekend.

And so I would tell you to just pause and join us for the next one when you're able to cash flow it and out of debt. But I will tell you this, there is a, I don't think it's been announced yet. So I'm going to get your number or your email address. Okay. There's, so you know the one in October is sold out. And if you do want to come, it's ramsaysolutions.com slash events and money marriage. We opened up a new one in February, right? For Valentine's weekend.

It's going to be amazing. But there will be a money marriage live stream that we follow up the new one in February, right, for Valentine's weekend. It's going to be amazing. But there will be a Money Marriage livestream that we follow up the October one with, and I'll hook you up with that, okay? Oh, that's kind. Oh, that would be amazing. So y'all can watch it at home. It's not going to be as cool as the one here, but it's going to be amazing. It's going to be a totally different

between me and Rachel, and it will be awesome. So hang on the line, and I don't even think we've announced this yet, so I may have just completely messed up everything with live events. If I have. I did just mess it up. Kelly's saying it's been announced. Oh, Kelly's just telling me you're fired. She's mouthing you're fired, you're fired. It's okay. It's all right. So Jessica, we got you covered.

So hang on the line here, and we'll get you hooked up with a free live stream. That's awesome. What a great pitch that we did not pay for for the Money in Marriage event. So thank you for that, Jessica. Check that one off the list. I know. It's tough for me because I want everyone to come because I know it's good. And also, if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. You get priorities right now. That's right. So that's good. Thank you for that. James

is up next in Allentown, Pennsylvania. What's going on, James? Hi. Thank you for taking my call. You got it. What's up, man? So I am pretty new to the Ramsey show. I am looking to buy a car, which I have enough for in cash, but I have no real credit built up. I've had a credit card for about a year.

I've only gotten, like, gas and maybe some dinner a couple times with it. But I'm worried about if I don't ever build real credit, I might, you know, I'm worried about future mortgages and stuff like that. And I'm looking to see what I should do. You going to play a game with us? Yeah. Okay. Guess mine or George's credit score.

Ready? Go. Zero. Ta-da. Zero. Well, you know what's funny? You know the reason people want a good credit score? So they can afford the financing of the vehicle.

You've already achieved that. You've transcended the need for a credit score. You have the cash to pay for it. So I will address the real fear that people have when it comes to buying a house. Because they go, well, the mortgage company is not going to let me just get a mortgage if there's no credit history. And there's this thing out there called manual underwriting. It's not done a whole lot because America is obsessed with debt. And so everyone just has a credit score. And this is the process I went

through in 2019 to buy a house. I didn't have a credit score. They said, all right, you can do a no score loan through manual underwriting. We're going to look at your tax return, your income history, bank statements. And then a real person says, all right, George is qualified for this mortgage. And so you're going to be able to do the same exact thing. And our friends at Churchill Mortgage, they've been doing this for decades. They're the experts in this field when it comes to no-score loans. And that truly is the only reason I can think of where it's a valid point to go, all right, I might need a credit score here. And even then, there's a way around it.

Okay. How does that hit you? It's a relief. I didn't want to have to finance anything. I'm really looking forward to staying debt-free for the rest of my life. Beautiful. What kind of car are you buying? Nissan Altima.

Nice. And how much cash do you have saved up? A little over $30,000. Whoa. That's incredible. How long did that take you? I don't really spend much, so it's kind of just been saving for like ever. I love it.

James, you just said something that I think is important for us to double-click on. What's that? Buying a house and using a mortgage uh i mean uh using a manual underwriting that's not actually the way around it that's actually the thing that makes the most sense the way around not having enough money or not being in a position where you have any business buying a house that is where a credit score comes in, right? That's actually the hack. Because if you have cash, you just buy it.

And if you pay your bills on time and you've got enough money and you can prove, here's my job, that's what manual underwriting, they're just going to come check out your life and make sure you can actually afford what you're about to do. That's just the straightforward path.

We've created, we like started taking an exit around the actual, anything that makes sense. And now that's become so normal, right? You just see everybody exiting. So everybody just exits and it really clears up the lanes in front of you. But the path should be, can you afford this or not? And if you can't, and the only way we would tell you to borrow money is with a mortgage do you have a life that makes this mortgage as for as few years as possible as it's going to be in your life do you have a life that can sustain this mortgage that's not the weird thing the weird thing is having to get this proxy to be like no no no we've looked at all the other places he borrows money and he's pretty good with it so we're going to give him a triple stamp and

double stamp it and uh not his first rodeo at not being able to afford things. Yeah, yeah. He never can afford things, and he always figures out a way to pay little bits and pieces of the things he can't afford, so he's good to buy your house. You see what I'm saying? You're doing it the right way.

All right. Just the chaotic way. Just some encouragement for you. Because we live in a... Yeah, that's the weird part, is that it's so normal now to be broke and to have to navigate this stupid broken financial system that when you do it any other way people look at you funny and i guarantee james when you go to the car dealership and you go oh no i don't need to go to the financing office i'm just going to write you a check

they're going to be like what and they're going to try to convince you that you should finance it they made me go i walked in and said the second time I bought a car, the first time my kids were with me, it was a disaster. And the second time I said, I work for Dave Ramsey. I'm on the air for the Ramsey show. I'm going to write a check. And the salesman was amazing but he goes, dude, I hate to do

this, but they're going to call you. They're at least going to call you. And I was like, okay. They just can't not. They can't not. They're going to call you. They're at least going to call you. And I was like, okay. Right? They just can't not. They can't not. So, James, we say that. Be careful when you step foot on that dealership or wherever you're buying the car from. Do your due diligence.

Don't let them talk you into anything. They're going to make you feel stupid, out of touch. You're dumb. Oh, you're one of those idiots that listens to that show. And you're like, no, no, no. I'm one of those idiots that sleeps all night. They might even offer you a discount for financing with them. Don't take the bait.

They are in the business of making money. Cars are quite literally the vehicle they use to lend money. That's it. That's how it goes. And James, hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. I want you to read the credit scores chapter because I think it will make you have an even worse taste in your mouth towards the system and help you overcome it. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of all that grief? It's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing,

especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You've got to say it out loud, and you've got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. The phone number is 888-825-5225. I'm George Campbell, joined by the host of The Dr. John Deloney Show, Dr. John Deloney. We've got tons of shows on The Ramsey Network, including that one, so be sure to check them out if you're enjoying this one. It's on podcasts, YouTube, wherever you like to hang out. Kevin is up next in Seattle, Washington.

Kevin, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. Sure. I need help. I am debt-free, which I'm extremely excited about. I discovered Ramsey Solutions about probably a year, a year and a half ago and really dove in and it made me feel good that I felt like I had been living the Ramsey Solutions lifestyle for my entire adult life without even knowing it. You're like, I'm not

the only crazy person out here who's like, I don't want to have payments. Right. Or more realistically, somebody taught you common sense, right? Well, yeah. I mean, when I graduated college, I was just shy of $70,000 in student loans. So I immediately out of college, my focus was to pay off the student loans. My goal was get that done when I was 30. I managed to pull it off just before my 29th birthday, and from there I purchased a house with a mortgage. I didn't really have much money saved up at that point. And then spent my 30s, you know, focusing. I had a couple roommates in and out,

and just, you know, picking up side jobs and focused on trying to pay my mortgage off as fast as I could. Fast forward another 10 years, I ended up selling that house when it was really close to being paid off, put that money into an IRA. Things are going great. I've moved closer to family. I don't currently own a house right now, so I don't have a mortgage. I'm renting just to make sure that this is the place I want to be and I like the job and everything. So the biggest challenge, and I'm starting to realize it more and more as I get older, is that I've been doing the track every dollar. I've been living the Ramsey's

Solutions life for so long that I'm really, it feels that it's turned into like an obsession or an addiction or it's like taking over my life. And I've, I realized that I'm, you know, in a much better situation than a lot of people. And I don't take that for granted, but I, I feel like I'm struggling by not being able to spend money. If I know that probably sounds crazy. What you're experiencing is surprisingly, I wouldn't say it's common, but it's not rare

that this identity kind of takes over. And I guess as someone who is on the inside of this thing, right? Me and George actually stir the Kool-Aid before we send it out to you guys. Probably the top three most expensive meals I've ever eaten in my life George actually stir the Kool-Aid before we send it out to you guys. Probably the top three most

expensive meals I've ever eaten in my life were with Dave. Ramsey's not about not spending money and not about buying really nice things and not about having amazing dinners and experiences with your friends. It's about making sure that you're a person of generosity

and that you can afford these things. Right. And you can't. And it's, I think it's almost turned into like fear because I've been, you know, like I, like I said, when I graduated college, I just needed to pay off the student loans. Right. So that's where every dollar went and then once that was done then it was a mortgage and i only focused on that and then you know like the fear was always not being able to do that what was money like growing up for you i would probably lower middle class it was never went without but like just we were just happy and everything seemed fine. Yeah, if you're lower middle class, there was a tension in your home that was palpable. I guarantee you.

And whether you knew it to be that or not, if you're lower middle class, things are tight all the time. Yeah, I mean, we were happy, but it was definitely tight. There you go. And my guess is that's wired into your nervous system. And so how do I, you know, being 45 years old now and feeling like I can write everything down on a piece of paper and I can be like, I'm going to be okay. But I can't convince myself. Can I tell you a trick?

It's not a trick. It's just a path. But I want you to know you're not crazy. I grew up, and it was very similar. Lower middle class. Things were scary, and my dad never said, we're broke and we're poor.

He never said that. But when I would say, hey, I'm out of deodorant, I could see him wince. And when I went to get seconds, I'm out of deodorant, I could see him wins. And when I went to get seconds and there was very little food, like I would kind of just exhale. Right. So I caught it. It was a part of me. Right. And now my life is very, very different. And, um, recently I'm where my family's moving.

And I told my son who's 14, I told him, I have this weird gnawing pit in my stomach now. And he said, why? And I told him, because it's still wired into me that everything goes away. Right? And so here's what I want to tell you. You cannot outthink this. One of the great modern lies of the modern mental health movement is that you can become mentally okay you can become mentally and emotionally well by just sitting around thinking

about stuff that's just not true you have to act differently and so what does that mean for you you have to choose to stop ruminating. When your mind starts spinning and spinning and your heart rate starts going up and going up and going up, you have to choose to say, oh, I know what you're doing. You're trying to protect me, body. I'm all good. And then you have to think of something else.

You have to choose that. It's the same thing I tell a parent who's lost a child. Often that picture, that last picture of the kid in the funeral home will just lightning bolt into their mind. And they get to choose from that moment forward. Are you going to meditate on this picture and think about it and have your body just go back to that spot? Or are you going to exhale and then immediately replace that picture with little kid on the big wheel? You get to choose that. And here's the second thing.

You have to build into your budget giving and spending. You're going to have to practice this new way of being. Dave has taught me to really look at the ratios because my nervous system can't handle the life I have now compared to the life I grew up with. And so I simply have to look at the ratios. Do I have enough money for X and Y and Z? Yep, I do.

Okay, cool. Then I'm going to give this much away. And dude, it is like, ah, but you exhale. And then I'm going to buy this for my wife because I love her. And comparatively, it's less than 0.0000% of my net worth. I'm going to buy it. And I practice, and I practice, and I promise you it gets easier.

Are you single, Kevin? I am, yeah. No, no, no, don't get over it. Don't get over it. Go right through it. So what we're saying is in that every dollar budget, you're going to force yourself to give more than you ever have, and you're going to force yourself to spend more than you ever have,

and you're going to find a new hobby, and you're going to pour some money into that and start to see what that feels like. And over time, that will become normal. That's a normal part of the budget. That's what I want. Kevin gives more. That's what I want. Kevin spends more. Because you're great at saving. We got that dialed down. Right now we have a flat tire, so we need to inflate

the other parts of our life artificially right now by forcing it into the budget. It's total artificial, yeah. Until it becomes, oh, you know what? I enjoy golf. I'm willing to spend 200 bucks a month on this hobby over here. And let me challenge you on the giving part. I want you to tie or do whatever your faith, tradition, practice tells you to do. But I want you to, when I talk about giving, I want when you go out to eat,

I want you to find a busboy who's cleaning up tables and just scrubbing and scrubbing and going from table to table to table walk over and put your hand on that guy's shoulder and he'll turn around and because most people walk past that guy every day they don't even look at him as though he's a human and i want you to stop and i want you to hand him a hundred dollar bill and say i see how hard you're working. I'm really grateful for you. Just watch his eyes. Or go to Waffle House and tip the waiter $200 on a $20 plate of diabetes. And, dude, they will follow you out in the parking lot and they'll hug you because you just paid their electric bill and their water bill and whatever was – you see what I'm saying? Like, you will experience generosity.

And watch what happens to your body. You're going to feel more joy than you have in a long time. Because truthfully, there's very little joy in saving and investing. There's more joy in spending, but there is way more joy in giving. And I think that's going to unlock something for you, Kevin, as you start to do this. I want you to, you're changing your identity. So I want you to write down a piece of paper. I am, I am so-and-so and I'm a person who's a good steward. I give. I'm so-and-so, I'm a person who has a good time with my money. I'm so-and-so, I am smart with my money. And we're going to start from there. We're going to backfill that with habits and make it happen.

This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is the season for Halloween. It's October. We're wearing costumes and we're wearing masks. So if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. And while you're thinking about it, I want you to be honest. A lot of us hide ourselves. We hide our true selves behind costumes and masks all the time. We do this at work. We do this around our friends.

We do this around our families. We even do this when we look at ourselves in the mirror. I know because I've been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding behind masks and costumes all the time, if you find yourself hiding from your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can be honest, where you can talk to somebody else and reflect and learn, and you can accept all the parts of yourself over time and start living an authentic life. Masks and costumes should be for Halloween parties,

not for our emotions and our true selves. And if you're considering therapy, try calling my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for you and your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the mask with BetterHelp.

Visit BetterHelp.com to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.com slash D'Loni to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.com slash D'Loni. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John D'Loni. If you are enjoying the show now or anytime, do us a quick favor and hit the like button, hit the follow button, hit the share button, hit the subscribe button, and share this with a friend, a family member someone who you think could use a little uh positivity a little hope in their lives and display some of the just trash that's out there just the i guess the candy just this just the sweet nothing candy that

is the internet i don't know you you refer to yourself as the ramsey eye candy some of the candies all bad that's that's very different, John. Thank you for reminding America. You're welcome. If they're not watching on YouTube, now's the time to start. There we go. It's open phones at 888-825- 5225. Don't be shy. Call us. We'll give you

our best advice. And sometimes it's not the best. Right, John? Disagree. Julie's up next in Montreal we're going way north John how's it going Julie? hi I'm good how are you? Julie we've got some of your closest

friends here in the studio from Montreal from Toronto wait really? yes we really do we're surrounded by Canadians right now it's one of the nicest warm feelings I've ever had oh well thank you so much for taking my call I love both of you surrounded by Canadians right now. It's one of the nicest, warm feelings I've ever had. Oh, well, thank you so much for taking my call. I love both of you. I watch you religiously.

That's so cool. Well, what's up? All right. I'm 27. I'm a nitrous. I'm currently doing baby step number two, gazelle intensity. I'm, I'm doing financial peace university. And, um, if I, if I keep going, I'll be out of debt by August, 2025. And, um, I listened to that episode that Rachel talks about giving to charity and, and she talks about, um, like how important it is and to like who it like how it transforms you across like how important it is and I I think it's a I I believe in it but when it comes to the you know I make right now I'm making four thousand a month and that that extra four hundred dollars I I can't find myself

to actually give it away um and and I'm yeah I I'm wondering if it's, like, how wrong it is to not give when you're in baby step two. I don't like looking at it from a right or wrong kind of moral perspective. You know, giving has been and always will be a matter of the heart. And we've always said, give a little until you can give a lot. Giving is not one of the baby steps until baby step seven, which is sort of, you know, choose your own adventure. But, you know, in baby step one, give a little, give something. Baby step two, give a little, give something.

And once you get out of those steps into baby steps, you know, four, five, six, seven, that's where you can really dial it up because you have more margin. And so right now you're saying 400 bucks is, is that 10% or are you saying 400 bucks is how much you can throw at the debt? That would be 10%. Okay. Is that what your church is asking of you? No, but in, in, in your budget, you say give 10% of your income.

Okay. So yeah, I mean, budget you say give 10 of your income okay so yeah i misunderstood that well i mean it's coming from um rachel's perspective and she's a christian and so tithing 10 is is built into her spiritual practice into her faith practice um if you can't breathe if you can't eat, then I want you to be well and whole. I think what George is getting at is it's an ethos. It's a way of being. Does that make sense? And so if you can't get $400, don't get $400 today. But I do want you to pick up somebody's gas at a gas station.

I do want you to put into your budget, I'm going to give $35. I'm going to give 50 bucks away. And I'll tell you, the more it pinches, the more it becomes a part of you. The more it hurts, if you will. But giving to where you walk around with your eyes open and you get your eyes out of your belly button. And our whole world is forcing us, not forcing us, our whole world encourages us to walk around staring at our own navels and wondering how do we feel and what do we feel and how do we feel

and how do we feel. Giving helps you look up and see humanity, see your neighbor, see that person who doesn't have what you have and it gives you perspective on your own life, it gives you perspective on your own challenges and you get to see in real time, oh, I don't have to wait for somebody

in some government house to solve the world's problems. I can be a part of this too. And I see you, neighbor, and I'm going to help you out. It's an ethos, right? It's way less a math problem. And even inside the Christian faith, there's people who 10%, you know, gross, 10%, it's going to be a question

that you have to answer for yourself when you sit down and budget. But, yeah, I'm with George, man. Make it a part of who you are. And make it fun. It feels like right now you've got to hit a quota. I just want you to have that spontaneous spirit like John's saying. I have a line item in my budget just called Bless Up.

And we just set aside a little bit of money, and whoever sees an opportunity, we just get to give. And maybe that's how you start to frame it up. Instead of a certain percentage, you just say, here's how much I'm able to do this month. Here's how much I'm willing to do. And you just make it fun and you make it matter. And I think that will unlock something in you. And guess what? A year from now, you're going to be in a different place.

So this is not a life sentence. And so I wouldn't put too much pressure on yourself to do a certain thing a certain way. Does that give you some peace? Yeah, that definitely helps. Thank you. Okay. Absolutely. All right.

It's a great question. It's a great question. I love the spirit of it. The fact you're even asking this tells me that you're going to be a very generous person. If you're even struggling with it, like, ah, I want to, but it's hard, better than, I don't even understand. Why the heck would you even do that? Yeah. All right, John, is that up next in Des Moines,

or as some of my friends call it, Des Moines? One of your friends does. One of my favorites. John, what's happening? Hey, George and John, thanks for taking my call. Yeah, what's going on? What's up? Well, to keep it straightforward, my wife and I,

we're receiving pensions that meet all of our family's living expenses. So is there a need or benefit to still The obvious one is that you don't have any control over the pension, and that if something happens with the company, the pension dies too. And they perform poorly comparatively to you investing on your own through a 401k or an IRA. Okay, I guess, and to clarify, so I'm retired military, so I receive a retired pay from the government plus a disability. So I guess if that funding stream stops, I think we're all in a worse way. Absolutely. That would be a scary one. How much is it? Is this enough to sustain for the next foreseeable future, regardless of what happens with your expenses?

Yeah, so between the two of us, we make a little over 10 grand a month in just the disability and retirement pay. Okay. And what's your life like right now? What's your financial picture? Do you guys have any debt? We just have the house left. We have about 87,000 left to pay. So another year and a half, and then we'll be completely debt free. Amazing. And what kind of retirement dreams do you guys have? Have you talked about that? Well, we're kind of living them as we go. So we're just enjoying time.

We have two kids, a 9- and 10-year-old. So we're just, you know, getting in that family time when we can, traveling when we can, and then, you know, giving our time and money when we can as well. Because we're we're definitely a blessed situation all right john i'm going to ask george a question on your behalf is that cool yeah if i was john i was getting ten thousand dollars of a federal pension every month and i was 18 months away from having my house paid off i i think in my house we would pause any sort of additional investing and get that sucker paid off.

Because that feels like a liability that doesn't really even need to be there. Is that bad math? No. I mean, I think truthfully, John, you're going to be okay either way. I just still like, no one's ever complained that they had too much wealth to pass on and leave a legacy with. And it doesn't sound like you guys investing, you know, 15% of your income would really change your life all that much. But it could change the numbers down the line. Okay, so my wife, she currently stopped contributing to her Roth IRA and 401K, so we can pay off the house and get rid of that liability.

Okay, good deal. I didn't know if there was a benefit or a need for us to actually continue with the retirement accounts, if that's something that we can pass on to our kids or anything like that in the future that we need to think about that I'm not aware of. Yeah, well, the thing to think about is with a Roth IRA, you need earned income in order to contribute to that. And so while y'all are working, that's a good thing to use. The 401k is a good thing to use. But again, if this is guaranteed from the government forever, you're going to be okay. But I would just rather be diversified and have more options of where I'm pulling from and when with those other

retirement opportunities. So thanks for the call. Yeah, thanks for your service as well. This puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. I'm George Campbell. He's Dr. John Deloney. We'll be back before you know it. From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by my good friend Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

We'll do our best to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Sarah's going to kick us off this hour in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Sarah, welcome to the show. How can we help? Hi. Thanks so much for taking my call, first of all. I have an opportunity cost question. Okay.

Lay it out. So the situation is that I'm a cancer patient and it's metastatic. So I have an 85% chance that I'm going to die within the next five years. Sounds very dramatic, I know. But I also have a very specific life dream. My husband and I, when it comes to the baby steps, I would say that we've really moved into Baby Step 7. And we had made plans as partners that we were going to now pursue very specific dreams to give back to the community. And my dream is to charter a federal credit union. It really requires a specific college degree. With so little time left, I'm debating, is it time to just kind of put that dream on hold?

Because it's going to take a couple years of college. Or pursue it so that I can finish strong if these are my last five years. And I really just don't know which direction to go. For those people who are listening to this going, wait, wait, what, what, what? How is she talking so clearly? You've been wrestling with this for a long time, haven't you? Yeah, the past year ever since the diagnosis. Okay.

So is the smoke cleared? Are you still walking around kind of in that shocked phase where everything feels pretty good and it's hard to wrestle with even though it's sitting out there? I can get emotional from time to time, but I think I know what I want to do. I just need to know, like, which direction to take. I want to, again, make that last. If this is the last chapter of my book i want it to be a really good chapter and i don't know i don't want to rob my husband of our last few years together i would have to be a full-time student and work full-time but i also don't want to not do something with my life before i go okay so when it comes to when it comes to

price point like we can afford it no it's comes to, when it comes to price point, like we can afford it. No, it's nothing to do with that. Nothing to do with that. Um, tell me about your dream of what would it like if you had a magic wand and you went on a local park bench and this credit union emerged, what would it be doing for the community? This federal credit union would be chartered specifically for my Native American tribe to basically, there's just so much poverty and so much lack of both resources and training within my tribe that I want this federal credit union to give them access to a specific type of loan and the coaching that they need to be successful so that they can begin having that opportunity. I think that's beautiful. And I also think you can accomplish a huge chunk of this or let's snap your fingers. You spend five years imagining what life is going

to be with your husband y'all have because here's the deal y'all made plans and those plans are now over as you knew it right your marriage as you know it is over your life as you knew it was over and now y'all are going to build a new life for the last five years okay and so you care and love for this tribe and you want to give them resources you want to give them information you want to give them coaching this is just me i would hate for you to live the last four years of your life taking accounting three right when it does sound kind of miserable i know it is because my i used to watch my roommates would come home and just stare at a blank wall. So here's the thing.

If that's what you want to do, because I'm somebody who loves a college classroom. I love being surrounded by people and arguing and debating ideas and a professor who's walking us. I love that. So if you tell me, John, that I've always had this dream, I don't want to go out without an accounting degree. I'll tell you right now, go sign up today. You got four years, go make it happen. I would tell you to go do that. That doesn't sound like your dream.

It sounds like that is a step you have to take to create this vision of how am I going to help and love my tribe. I would love to see you just bypass that whole thing and just love your tribe. Is love to see you just bypass that whole thing and just love your tribe and so that is there a way to accomplish that mission without yes the charter of a start a weekly class credit union because if the goal is to give them resources financially there's all kinds of ways to do that right set up a program i'll teach them how to apply for college teaching

them how to get jobs how to i mean you could create an entire ecosystem so that 150 of them can band together and build a whole string of of uh credit unions down the road and one of them will name it after you one day you see what i'm saying yeah yeah i think i i hear the direction that you're going with this um then one of the things that I'm afraid of is how do I get that, you know, that kind of that investment, that cultural group investment if I don't have their credentials? Because I don't have a whole lot of charisma either, so I don't think they're just going to sign up. So what would be a way to substantiate that reputation?

I disagree with you. I disagree. You do have charisma. i can hear it on the phone well i talk on the phone for a living there you go right i mean i you're doubting yourself and you've pigeonholed the only way i can i can leave a lasting mark is to create this brick and mortar thing. And George and I are telling you, you can start an Instagram account and reach way more of those people. Millions of this year of, yeah, of our native friends.

So we're just saying, I want you to dream of different ways you can accomplish the mission so that you don't pigeonhole yourself and do well. If I don't sit in a classroom for the next four years, this isn't going to happen. Cause I think there's, there's more than one way to do this. And I also want you to enjoy, let's say there is five years left.

How do you still enjoy time with your husband and still create memories and also accomplish your career dreams? Yeah, can I challenge you on something? Yes. Do you have kids or just your husband? No kids, just the husband. He's an amazing guy too. One of a kind, no one actually notated in my doctor's notes how much he stood beside me. So definitely a heck of

a guy. That's awesome. So if you decide, um, y'all two alternate making dinners for each other and you wake up every morning and watch the sunrise and have coffee together for the next five years and you pass away, That's an extraordinary last chapter. An extraordinary last chapter. I don't want you to conflate a life well lived with big neon flashing signs that say, I left my mark. Because what you're going to find is, yes it is cool to to put a mark on something it's cool to i'll give you it's cool for me to have the number one best-selling book but i tell you what when my son stands up and george my son's here today and he he's like man he called me yes sir

and i'll take that every day of the week. Right? And that comes from having morning breakfast and hanging out and walking alongside and teaching and riding bikes together. And so I want you to reimagine what a life well lived looks like in your last chapter. And I promise if you chase some big, huge, dramatic thing, it's not going to feel like you think it's going to feel. I want you to be honest about what does a life well lived look like in the last five years. And you're in this ride or die with your husband. You all sit down together and decide what is this going to look like? And it might be serving indigenous people.

That's amazing. I love that. But let's serve them in a way that's not going to require you to spend three fourths of your remaining time in a classroom. And let's figure out other ways to do it because I promise you're smart enough and you are captivating enough to do that. Best of luck to you. We love you, love you, love you. Call anytime. You've worked, saved, sacrificed, and been gazelle intense with your financial game plan, but do you have the right defense in place, like the right health insurance? Look, you can't walk past a doctor's office these days without getting a massive bill. And if you don't have health insurance, a major medical situation can undo all of your hard work. That's where my friends at Health Trust Financial can help.

They work for you, not the insurance company. So they find you the right health insurance, and they save you money. Ramsey has recommended Health Trust Financial for two decades because they're the experts, and whether you're 19 years old or 90, you can trust them to do two very important things. Listen to you, then find you health insurance coverage with everything you need and nothing you don't. Health Trust Financial is your one-stop shop for unbiased advice about affordable health insurance options.

They could save you hundreds of dollars a month, so make sure you're not overpaying. Go to healthtrustfinancial.com today. healthtrustfinancial.com Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Today's question from the day. Question of the day.

It comes from Zach. From the day. It's from the day. It's of the day. It comes from Zach in Kansas. What does Zach have to say? I'm looking for it here. All right, let's see this.

Oh, boy. Is this a real question? This may be my favorite question of all time. This is my number one favorite question of the day ever. Zach from Kansas writes, I want to buy an Alex Van Halen drum set at auction. It's his last played tour set. It's likely going to be $100,000 to $150,000

and I want to use some of my 401k money to pay for it. Dude, I am with you so far, Zach. I love drums and I love Van Halen. Most importantly, that was awesome, I think it will go up in value rapidly, more rapidly

than my 20% increase in my retirement fund. That's how much it's gone up so far this year. I think it's a good investment because it's rare. I would like to hear your thoughts and insights. Oh, man. Easily. Number one, favorite question of all time. Should I

cash out my 401 to buy Alex Van Halen's drum set? I'm going to have to go with a yes on this one, Zach. I'm going to have to go with a yes on this one, Zach. I'm going to have to go with a yes. A big yes. I feel like Deloney in his heart of hearts would actually be like, yeah, bro. Do it.

Worth it. Oh, my gosh. Zach, for all that is holy, please don't do this. Yeah, in case someone stops the call here, do not do this. Please don't do this. For anything. No. Especially not an Alex

Van Halen drum set. I think it will go up in value more rapidly than my 20%. Okay, let me explain. This is a good lesson in compound growth, John. You want to play the game? Are you going to bite? There's two investment lessons here. You teach the one on compound growth. I'll teach the one on stuff.

Okay. So, I remember when they asked warren buffett about crypto and he said i wouldn't buy all the crypto for 25 and they said why and he said because no matter how much it goes up in value that value is not real it's a proxy it's a it's a it's a guesstimation it's a bunch bunch of people saying, I would pay that for that. I'd pay that for that. At any given moment, 24-7. Right.

And what he said was, I would have to sell it to be able to buy anything that I need. That has value. That has value. Like wood or oil or water. Or a Van Halen drum set. Or a Van Halen drum set.

Now you see where I'm going. So if you're buying a, dude, I like buying guitars. I love them. I love them. I love them. So if you're buying a, dude, I like buying guitars. I love them. I love them. I love them. And once I sell X number of books, I've got my eyes on a very particular guitar

that I have no business buying, but I can't wait to get it. I get that. But to say that I'm doing this for an investment would mean at some point I have to sell this and hope that somebody will still buy this for this much money um down the road and so i do not think it will appreciate more than 20 i just i just don't see

it um so when you're thinking about buying things that are going to go up in value beanie babies baseball cards do they go up in value temporarily or over a shorter period of time yes of course they do um but i'm not gonna mickey mantle rookie card it's gone up a jillion dollars i wouldn't use that as an investment vehicle and i wouldn't spend money i wouldn't borrow money for myself um to buy something that i'm gonna have to resell to do anything with good point you ready for the math lesson bring it bring it okay so taking money out of your 401k as a withdrawal has not only your income taxes but also penalties so it's like borrowing let's say it's fifty thousand dollars he wants to rob his 401k of uh it's a hundred and fifty thousand dollars we said he wants to use some of his 401k money to pay for it i don't know if he's saying

he has you know so let's say he's gonna to use 50 grand as an example. Well, he's going to pay upwards of 30, 35% for the pleasure of using that money. Not only that, but he's also unplugged the future growth. So I have an example here. Let's say he's 37 years old. He's going to use 50K. That money from 37 to 67, if he had just left it in the 401k, never added a dime, would have turned into over a million dollars with compound growth. So if you're trying to tell me that this drum set is going to be worth over a million dollars one day, now we'll talk. He's one of the best drummers

of all time, George. I'm not going to lie. Well, why isn't someone else bidding this up for him? Why are they only selling it for $100,000 if it's actually worth a million? It's just not there yet. Don't do this, Zach zach sex i this is a real question guys is this really that we no one fake this in the booth okay people always assume john that we fake this stuff for like entertainment i could not have written this question in an improv creativity group i couldn't have done it it's too good too good all. All right. Back to real people

with real problems, hopefully. John in New York City, what's going on? Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Hey, so I have a business I had for roughly about 15 years and finally decided to run it. I'm going to need some cash. I have about $200,000 that I'm sitting on. And the business itself doesn't have about $200,000 that I'm sitting on. And the business itself doesn't have any money because of the way I ran it up to this point. So the question is, do I use the money to finance it or do I apply for a line of credit? Or what should be the next step for me?

So explain, you said you've been running the business for 15 years? I had it for a while, but I had such a nice job. I never really thought about ever quitting the job, which I did a year ago, to actually run it. So it was basically, you know, I was paying really well. Whatever the money was coming in was going right back out. I started at $346 a month. And fast forward, it's at close to $800,000 right now. And on contract, I have now a top line of $3.2.

Wow. That's where I'm going to be at this time next year. So top line is $800,000 a year? Right now, but on the contract right now, starting July 1st. So at this time next year, my top line is going to be $3.2. And what is your net profit? 30% on that. 30%. Okay. So why are you needing to finance

anything? Why can't you just pay cash for whatever you need to do to scale the business? That was the question. See, up to this point, I've been running it in such a way that I never even bothered to. I took a very tiny salary and so now that I quit my job a year ago, I decided I'm going to grow

this business. We're going to build something for the family, like a family legacy. But I have $200,000 I've been sitting on because I come from nothing. And just the fear of going back to nothing is to be open off the cash. And so that was the question. Do I go into debt for the first time in my life? Or do I, well, not the first time I actually have a house and investment property. But again, that's not really part of the equation right now. I'll tell you the best way to run a business is debt-free. And that's how Dave Ramsey started this company, the studio we're sitting in, this building we're sitting in, all was done at the

speed of cash. And it's how we teach all business owners to run their business in Entrez Leadership, which is our business arm of teaching people how to grow and run a business. And so I would highly recommend you continue to run this business debt-free, move at the speed of cash. Don't get ahead of yourself. Don't get starry-eyed. Don't go finance a million dollars to try to scale this thing. You've done an amazing job doing it with cash. There's no reason to turn to a lender now. Good enough. I've been actually having to turn business away because I don't have enough cash

for what I'm going to need in terms of buying equipment. And I'm okay with that, just so you know. What kind of business is it? It's cleaning service, property management. Deal with a lot of large commercial properties. That's all I deal with. And everything's with contracts for a year at the very

least. We're doing well and we project to do even well and grow even more, but I've happened to turn business away because I don't want to do it after that. I'm hesitating. I found you guys about a year and a half or so ago and I'm late to the principles, but again, I don't have any debt. I don't- But yeah, listen, John, listen, here's what you just did. You've been, you've been moving and moving and you just signed the big one. You just signed one. That's going to bring in millions of dollars. And so I want you to step out and look at 10 years from now.

If you nail this one, it's going to put, I know you will. I know you will, but it's going to put millions of dollars in your pocket. And that is going to be what of dollars in your pocket. And that is going to be what you buy the new equipment with. So if you can hold your lifestyle one more year, and you can hold the way the business operates one more year, you're going to be flush. And I'll tell you, you're in New York City,

so you get what I'm about to say. Imagine the meetings we had here in 2020 when the world shut down. We had not one creditor to pay. 100% of the energy in this building was going to make new business and help people who were hurting. It was not trying to back pay money we'd already spent. And I want you to be ready for that moment because there's going to be people in your field that are desperate to pay off their cleaning equipment and their vans and whatever, and you're going to owe no money, and you can come in and give people a base price during the middle of a crisis, and you will take the entire market over. You are right where you need to be, my brother.

You're on track, on track. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. We're going to keep the show rolling on to Cincinnati. What's going on to Ambrose in Ohio? How's it going? Hey, how's it going?

I just had a question for you guys. I am getting married in August. Yeah, I know. And basically, both me and my fiance, I'm 27, she's 26. And, uh, I'm just kind of wondering how to combine finances. So I have a house in about like a hundred thousand dollars net worth. And she has, she was a traveler for a while. So she's got a really high cash net worth of almost 200 K. And I'm just kind of wondering, how do you guys suggest combining finances? Obviously, I mean, I have been married before, so first time doing this, I don't actually know how you guys did it when you did it.

So I'm just looking for that type of help. Awesome. When I got married, we were so broke. Yeah, I had eight cents, and so it was pretty easy to combine it. We combined it in the ashtray, the cup holder in our car. And Ambrose was like, I have a million, she's got two million. Just want her to the best way to combine these things. No, it's great.

I love that you're thinking about this. So you own a home. What's left on the mortgage? It's about a $200,000 worth. I don't know what estimates. It goes from $220,000 to $240,000, and I have $140,000 left on it. Okay. So you got about $100,000 equity there.

And is she renting right now? No, she's at home with her parents. Okay. So once you guys get married, is the plan for her to move into your house? Yep. Okay. And do you guys have any debt other than your mortgage? No, no debt.

And she has $200,000 in cash? Yeah, she was a travel nurse during all the covid so pretty good this is amazing and you have cash as well yeah i've got about a 15k cash set aside besides the stuff so 15k and then the rest of it's going towards the wedding okay you guys are cash flowing the wedding Have you figured out who's paying for that? Yeah, we already got that covered. Great. And honeymoon? Yep, got that covered too. All right. So here's what I did. Here's what I recommend anyone do. Once you guys are back from the honeymoon, combine your bank accounts to one. And what I did was I had my checking,

I just made it a joint checking and added her to it. So it's not like you both have to close down your accounts. You can just create out of yours a joint checking and added her to it. So it's not like you both have to close down your accounts. You can just create out of yours a joint checking, add her to it. She can shut hers down. And then you guys have a shared joint savings account as well. That can be a high-yield savings account with an online bank. And that's really all you need as far as the tactics. Are y'all going to live in this house for a long time?

Ask your question again. Sorry, so basically also there's like no tax implications of combining finances and considering... No, no, no, this is y'all's money. Are you going to live in your house? Is this going to be your permanent place? Yep, I'm going to probably be there for about five years or so. And she's excited about living there? Oh, absolutely, yeah.

She's gotten good garden beds, picked out a bunch of stuff, is updating it, painting the rooms. She's definitely nesting a little bit there, although she's not pregnant, that's all I'm saying. No, I can imagine moving in after you've lived in your house by yourself, it's going to need some work. I would recommend considering taking some of the cash that you all both have and pay this house off.

It would be pretty amazing to start your new marriage without a house payment. Yeah, you'll have $215,000 going into it if nothing changes, if you don't add anything to it, and you pay off the mortgage of $140,000, you still have $75,000 left as your emergency fund, savings, vacation, slush funds, what have you. And that would put you in the Ramsey baby steps at baby step seven at a very, very young age, which boggles my mind. Now, the question is, what is she going to think about using her 200K toward this mortgage? I don't know. It's going to be hard to convince her. She doesn't want to invest in that because it's kind of just sitting in cash right now. Pay off your house. That's the best investment you can make.

A forced fixed savings rate. You don't have to worry about what the market did with your money. You guys are sitting pretty. What's your mortgage right now? What's the monthly payment? $1,200. Okay. So you'd free up probably about $1,000.

Obviously, you've still got to pay property taxes and homeowners insurance. But that's an extra $1,000 you guys now get to invest on top of of your amazing incomes what are you guys going to be making together once you're married uh 180 sorry 160 okay can i recommend something before you do any of this stuff y'all need to go out and have a dream about money a conversation about money because i'll tell you what you're going to start off and you're already going to you're going to drive out of the church parking lot with two flat tires if that money is still her money and if your house is still your house yeah when y'all drive out of that church that's y'all's money and that's y'all's house and so if y'all decide we're going to pay our house off pay your house off and if y'all want if y'all decide we're going to pay our house off pay your house off and if y'all want if y'all decide we're going to live a life where we owe nobody anything forever and our entire

destiny is up to us moving forward i can't even imagine how amazing that would be i'm just like trying to put myself in your shoes thinking about the fights and the discouragements and the near calling it quits me and my wife had the first few years and so much of it was over money and jobs and where we're going to be y'all will have all of that behind you if you wish um but y'all need to get on the same page with this is gonna all of this becomes ours and just practicing talking about that and deciding what kind of life do we want to have you get what i'm saying yeah that makes a lot of sense. Okay.

That's the most difficult part because she worked really hard to save up $200,000. And so it can be very jarring for you to come in and be like, all right, sweet, we're married now, so you're going to pay off my mortgage. And you need to change the language around all of this. This is now our money. This is our mortgage. This is our house, our dreams. And what is our best path to wealth and peace and joy? And 100% of the time, that is debt mortgage. This is our house, our dreams. And what is our best path to wealth and peace and joy? And 100% of the time, that is debt freedom. That's a part of it. And you'll have

plenty of time to invest. I'm not worried about the fact you guys will be multimillionaires. If you invest from 27, making high six figures all the way up to 67, it will boggle your mind. But for now, in the meantime, while you guys are young, I'd rather free up a mortgage payment and enjoy that money, invest some, give some, spend some, go on some trips. How does that hit you? Awesome. That makes a lot of sense. I appreciate the advice. All right, go get them, brother. Goodness gracious, what a wonderful problem to have. And here's the other side. If she came in with two hundred thousand dollars of i don't know medical school debt that would also be our our debt be our debt that's right it's a lot

less fun than coming in with 200 grand of net positive cash flow but it's the same principle where you have to swallow your pride and go i did so well saving and she came into this well that's her debt to pay off and so she's gonna work on Well, that's a one-way ticket to a real sad marriage. Yeah, and it's also tough to so often when you are able to and you're blessed enough to build up some pretty significant cash reserves, you almost don't realize how much you start leaning on it. Like as an identity, as a safety crutch, like I'll be okay. I can do anything right and so when you get married and of course you don't want to have a house payment but i mean i

need i need my i need my i've been leaning on this for years like this is my two hundred thousand dollars that i can do anything at any time with and it's like no no now it's us right and that's a hard transition to make i get that's really tough yeah probably one of the hardest conversations as you combine lives together is just getting over that hump of what are we now going to build together? Because there's some compromise. It's not like you marry the same exact person who's like, oh, my gosh, I was thinking the same thing. You should definitely do that. There's going to be some arguments and spirited debates over what to do.

There should be. There should be. But when it's born out of the same values, well, now we can get somewhere. We can actually compromise and not lose our principles. And I think it's asking, what do we want our house to feel like at the end of every day? I want it to feel warm and hilarious.

And if we just want to watch TV, we can watch TV. If we want to just go for a walk, we can do whatever we want because we don't owe anybody anything. And that's how you reverse engineer that, oh, then I'm just going to go and pay the house off because we have this money sitting in this account. That will be better than, all right, let's buy a duplex.

And we're going to arbitrage it. Jeez Louise. Well, we know money fights and money problems are still one of the leading causes of divorce. And so when you can start out your married life with zero debt, I'm telling you, it's going to decrease the amount of money fights and money problems you have.

You're going to have to go look for some problems. Oh, that's good. That's good encouragement. They'll find you. They always do. They'll find you. Well, I found, John, that even though my wife and I don't argue about money a lot, still a lot of arguing, you know? I'm like, why did you have to buy so many throw pillows? Well, I have to see which ones look good,

then I'll return the rest. Then it's girl America, if you can help solve the problem of how many pillows are on my bed right now, I will never, ever understand that. You're not even allowed to put your head on them. I have two doctorates, and I don't understand why we need so

many pillows on our beds, George. For the aesthetic that no one sees except you. Help, America. Help. Send help. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney.

You know, a crux of this show is making the most of your money. And the only real way to do that tactically through a daily habit is by budgeting. And we've got the tool to make that happen for you. It's called EveryDollar. It makes it super simple to plan your spending, track your expenses, save for what matters most to you, all in an easy to use app that fits into your busy life. So you can download it, you can get your spouse to download it, you can both be logged in, have accountability, and know exactly where EveryDollar is going instead of hoping that you have enough money in the account at the end of the month. So go download EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today and get that budget rolling. All right,

Maya's up next on the line in New Orleans. What's going on, Maya? Hello. So essentially, my question is, should I put my credit card debt on hold to pay for my summer classes? And then how can I best prepare myself for my loans as I graduate with my MBA in December? So I know there's going to be a new monthly cost overall. I did do a breakdown with all my debts. So I'm trying to be quick, but I can run you guys through what I'm working with right now. Okay. So how much more, your school's over in December, how much more do you have to pay? So I'm paying for my summer classes right now. I'll be taking

out a loan in August, only five grand, but right now I paid $1,600 at the beginning of this month, and then I owe $1,600 at the end of July. As far as my credit card debt on one, my total is $879, and $300 is due by the end of July. My next credit card, $358, that's due at the end of the month. I can easily pay that off now, actually. If you could easily pay it off, why did we go into a few hundred bucks of credit card debt? What happened? This is kind of crazy. So I normally put my gym workout on the credit card every month. It's just kind of like a reoccurring thing.

But I got a little willy-nilly and ran it up higher than it should be. So it's normally about $75 a month. Rent it up through extra spending? Correct. Okay. Maya, you're getting an MBA. Are you going two classes or is this an online program? This is an in-person. I'm doing an accelerated program. So it's nine months, but this summer I'm taking some additional courses or some I guess online classes um so it's about three grand for the summer and it's normally five grand a semester so I've taken out one

additional loan you yeah have you gone through all of your services and fees um yes um well what they're charging me yeah so if you go through your services and fees, I would be stunned if you're not paying a rec fee. You're not paying for an amazing gym. No, no, no. That's separate. I'm sorry. The gym membership is coming out of my own personal. I know.

That's what I'm saying. I'm saying you're about to have an MBA. You're about to have a master's in business administration. And as a part of this $5,000 tuition that you're paying, that comes with counseling services and medical clinic and access to the university gym. And over here, you're paying for the gym again. That's what I'm trying to get at. I'm paying. Yeah. I have, I have trainers that I go to and I'm fortunate. I just don't want to give it up. I know, but you don't have the money for it. So you're going to go into debt at who knows what interest rate

so that you can have multiple gym memberships? Could you cash flow this otherwise? You're about to be a master of business administration. So, okay, you make a great point. So I actually started listening to you guys in January. I was doing great, and then in March, I kind of stopped listening to you all, not going to lie, and I got myself back into credit card debt. I'm seeing a correlation

here. When you don't listen to what John says, bad things happen. And if you don't have George Campbell in your ears at all times, don't do it. Here we go. You guys are back into my morning routine. Are you in great shape? Are you in great shape physically? I need to get it fully done. You'll be alright into my morning routine. Maya, are you in great shape? Are you in great shape physically? I need to get it fully done.

You'll be all right for a few months. Okay, for real. Here's the deal. Let's try to stop the bleeding. No more loans. So if you took debt off the table, what would it take for you to cash flow the rest of the schooling? Okay, so...

How many thousands of dollars? To cash flow? Okay, by the end many thousands of dollars? Cash flow? Okay, by the end of July, I'll need $1,600. I'm still going to get a grand back for my taxes, so I was going to throw that to it. Good. And I already have a total of $1,400 saved up today. Done.

So July's coming, right? Let's check off July. Exactly. What's the next bill? Yeah. $5,000, and then they do payment plans, so it'd be a grand a month. Done. Can you cash flow a grand a month to avoid going into debt?

Done, yes. So I make $55,000 a year. Thankfully, my dad pays for all my car expenses. And then come August, I'll pick up at my part-time job again. I work at that same gym. You work at the gym and it's not free? So the gym membership is free, but the part

where I get training is $75 a month. Oh my goodness. Okay. Here's the truth. You make $55,000 you can cash flow $1,000 a month. Truth? Okay. So. Yeah. Yes, you've got to cut things. here's our new mantra debt is not an

option that's your new mantra okay so do i stop investing in my 401k for both of them pause investing down to zero we're gonna cut our lifestyle down a little bit so that we don't have to go further into debt because the truth is you don't need this you don't have to go further into debt. Because the truth is, you don't need this. You don't need a lender. You have Maya. She works her butt off, and she has the money to pay for this. And so here's the deal. So that's my thing is I'm young. So I'm like 23, and my goal is just to pay off the debt by the time I'm 30.

I don't think you can take it out more debt. I was thinking like the end of the year. I'm going to take out the debt because, you know, it's only about right now I'm sitting at $57,000. How is someone who's so driven and so disciplined so lackadaisical about their financial future going, well, seven years from now, maybe I'll pay off a few thousand dollars? Or somebody who's getting a credential that is going to give you access to teach people how to run their businesses. And you're like, I know. Maya, if Maya was running Maya Incorpor if maya was running maya incorporated she was running the books what would you grade her right now um honestly i would give myself like a two but ask me two months ago and i would have gave myself like a six is this out of ten

yeah okay i want to rate you 10 out of 10 and to to do that, we're going to cut the debt. Because you know how business works, right? Revenue goes up, expenses go down. That's how it works. And one of the expenses right now is debt. So if you can cut that, then your revenue, your income, is going to be all profit. This is business 101. So that's how I want you to live your personal life. Because you know this from a business standpoint, but it's easy to get sloppy in your personal life.

Because we are infallible humans who have emotions running the show. And Maya, why are you getting an MBA? This is kind of a bad question. So I have my undergrad in healthcare management. I actually graduated in December of 2022 with my undergrad. I graduated a little early 2022 with my undergrad. I graduated a little early to save some money. I did not like working in the healthcare field, so I switched over to HR, and I work for a car rental company. I like doing what I'm doing, but if I'm going to

be honest with you, I really don't know why I'm doing the MBA. I tried to get a master's in a different area, and essentially the counselor I met with was like, no, you need to get an MBA. Like it'll do good things for your career. So I'm just getting it right now because I know that, you know, I'm young. I don't have kids, but I have time to get it. And I'm able to, like you said, cashflow it cheap right now. But you're not cashflow. You told us you're going to go into debt for it.

And you already owe $57,000. Yeah, I do owe $57,000. But yeah, so I'm going to attempt, like you guys said, to cash flow it. Actually, I think that that's possible. Well, you promised me it's not going to be an attempt. Can you just say, I'm going to cash flow it? I'm going to cash flow it. I'm going to cash flow it.

Okay, we will be watching. We will find you on the internet and we'll know, Maya. So don't lie to us. Yes. No, no, no. I am. I'm going to put a plan in place. I just need to figure out, I guess, how to best budget all my stuff. There we go. That's a solution. Hey, Maya, how far along are you? In my... In your program. I have five classes left. So I'm taking two classes in the summer, and I'll have three come August, and I'm done. Okay. So you're already headed way downhill.

Because otherwise, honestly, if you were just one semester in, I would have told you to stop. It's too expensive, and it's too hard of a credential. And at 23, you're going to get out with an MBA, and you're going to put yourself in a strange position where you're over-credentialed. So people can't hire you at some of these entry-level positions at these big companies, but you're going to not have enough experience to run the company or be a senior leader. And so you're going to you'll have a job or multiple job opportunities with this new

MBA that you don't even know if you really want. Good God almighty college counselors, we've got to do better. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by my good friend and colleague, Dr. John Deloney. That's dr. Two PhDs. Don't forget it. We're pumped to be with you. Happy to serve you in any way we can to give you the right next step for your money, your life, your mental health, your relationships. John, you ready to go? Always. All right. That's enough confirmation for me.

Andy's up first in Atlanta, Georgia. What's going on, Andy? Why don't you have more friends? What's up, Andy? Hey. Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

Sorry you had to hear that. Yeah, we can hear you loud and clear. Okay, good. I appreciate it. It's more of a moral question than a money question, but I have two sons. One graduated college a couple years ago. One is going into his senior year. The oldest one got the mother of all scholarships where basically he graduated with 20 grand in the bank that they paid him to go there. Yeah.

The younger one basically has full tuition scholarship, but I'm paying his room and board. And I've been cash flowing it just because life has been good the last four or five years. And while I've saved over $50,000 for each of them and a $529,000, I was just going to leave that sit there. So if they want to get a master's at some point, it's there. My question is, I basically will have over four years put out about $60,000 room and board because it's so expensive. Andy, Andy, Andy. Yeah. You don't owe your other kid any money.

Is that what you're about to say? Okay. Well, I'm just wondering if there's any moral obligation in any way wait do the kids know about all the numbers here oh no yeah well yeah probably i mean they're smart like is your other son being like wait wait dad you he got 60 worth like is he asking you the most he's he's the most grateful no not in a million years would he and i actually he's getting married this august and i did tell him i wouldn't because his his uh fiance's family doesn't really have any money so i gave him a fifteen thousand dollar budget that's kind of you to have his wedding that's awesome

yeah um so here's that made me start thinking well there's still a big disparity so i didn't you know just thought i'd get some some uh here's what i know there's no smarter than me there's no disparity here's what i know the home that that young man grew up and i've i've spent my whole career working with college students that home that that young man grew up in was safe it was warm, and he had parents who pushed him and coaches and supporters who pushed him, and I don't even know why he got that scholarship. But that didn't happen in a vacuum. You've been supporting him his entire life.

Sure. And that looks different. Support for our kids looks different. Some of our kids need extra medications, and some of our kids need a different kind of backpack, and some of our kids need extra medications, and some of our kids need a different kind of backpack, and some of our kids need counseling, and some of our kids need football gear. As a parent, we want to look at what's the best way I can set my kids off.

I don't want to keep a spreadsheet, and I spent seven cents here, and I spent nine cents here. That's a recipe for resentment. Dude, you've done an amazing job with your kids. They won the freaking dad lottery when they got you. Well, they won the mom lottery, and dad didn't screw it up terribly bad. Well, I'm curious, Andy. Is this coming from a personal place where you feel guilty?

No, I get it. I get that. No, not really. Just when I started thinking about, okay, I'm going to underwrite some of this wedding here or most of it. Then I started thinking, well, that, that doesn't even things out. And I know it's, it's weird. It's weird to think, oh, I have to even that out, but maybe it's coming from a place of, you know, in the last several years, I've been very fortunate in my business and it's done really, really well. There we go.

I could do that. That's a totally different proposition. I got a buddy who, when his kids got married, he's very, very, very comically wealthy. And when his kids got married, he surprised each one of them with, I'll take care of your first home that was their wedding gift that they didn't know was cash right and so if you want to drive a car up that's brand new because you've been super blessed or something like that do that because

you don't let me put it this way you don't need an excuse to be generous with your kids sure and i don't i don't want you to speak well okay i've i've been super super blessed in the last four or five years um business-wise financially i had to take care of this kid so i really i would love to do something amazing for their wedding oh i you don't need that you don't need to go through a bunch of mental gymnastics if you want to be generous be be crazy and generous go for it but it doesn't have to balance out with your kids. And don't do it out of a place of guilt. Yeah, do it at a place of joy. I worked really hard for this money.

I got lucky. And I'm going to give a lot of it away. I think that's beautiful, man. That's awesome. All right. All right. Well, that makes me feel a little bit better about whatever it is. Whatever it is I decide to do.

What do you do for a living? I have a small company that creates sensory rooms for kids with special needs. My customers are mostly school assistants. Andy, you're making all the other dads out there look real bad right now, especially with Father's Day around the corner. It's the last thing we need. All right, Andy, can I ask you this one other question? Yeah.

When you have a small business, did one or both of your kids grow up when things were really lean? Oh yeah. When I left my decent paying job to come here, uh, as a partner, I, uh, had to take my salary down to basically $30,000 while we were putting, uh, them in music lessons. yeah we we drastically tightened the belt for years and that's where we learned about this thing called the envelope system yeah so i've actually taught fpu once at our church that's well i'm really grateful dude but listen that that is a very common thing that there's really lean years and you as a dad are looking at these two

youngsters and you're wishing you could give them the new baseball glove the new bat the new computer the new whatever and you just can't that money doesn't exist and then when it comes there's this sense that i need i i a need to make up for the past, or now that I can, I'm going to just turn the faucet on and flood this kid with, right? Don't use your kids as a way to try to make up. Just do it out of a spirit of generosity and a spirit of I can. You get what I'm saying?

You were an amazing dad. They got to see you grind. They got to see you win. They got to see you sacrifice. They got to see you win again. Dude, how incredible. What a gift for these kids. And then they get to see you grind. They got to see you win. They got to see you sacrifice. They got to see you win again. Dude, how incredible. What a gift for these kids. And then they get to see you dedicate your life to serving kids with learning

exceptionalities and special needs. Come on, man. I mean, it's incredible. It's incredible. Well, thank you. I mean, in the end, it's manufacturing and business, but it is nice to be able to do it in a way that enriches the lives of people who really need it.

That's exactly right. You're there, my brother. Come up with something really cool for them and give it away and be comically generous with them, but not out of any sense of obligation, but because you get to, because you're able to, and that's just who you are. You're a guy who's just generous. That's amazing.

I want to be Andy when I grow up. For real. And that's a who you are you're a guy who's just generous that's amazing i want to be andy when i grow up for real and that's a good reminder happy father's day yeah it's around the corner and a lot of great dads out there dads you know they get a bad rap you know the homer simpson era of dadhood but then you have andy's and you're like oh that's what it looks like yeah to be a father to raise kids the right way kids learn when their dads are grinding way more than when dads are just passing out new things all the time. You want to teach your kid, let them watch you really struggle and continue to get up and continue to get up. That transforms generations.

Good on you, man. Beautiful. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. The number to call is 888-825-5225. You are the show. And thank you guys for calling in and trusting us with your most important life decisions. We don't take it lightly, and we try to do our best to steer you in the right direction.

That will lead you to peace and debt freedom. All right, up next, we've got Catalina in New York City. What's going on, Catalina? Hi, how are you? Thank you for taking my call. I need your help. I'm drowning in debt, but my main question is, I have a loan for $21,000 with 11.99%. And I just called a company, one of those debt relief companies, and they said they can save me on the interest if I join their program. Would you recommend that? No, no, no, no.

Can I be honest? Catalina, I hate these companies with a burning, undying passion because they promise this wonderful life where you're going to have debt relief. And what they really do is they tank your financial life and then attempt to negotiate while taking your money. And so what they're doing is something you can do for yourself without paying someone to do it and without tanking your financial credit and all that in the

process. So what kind of debt is this? It's a personal loan that I took to pay off some of my credit cards. Okay. Yeah. And you're at $21,000. How much do you make a year? About $60,000. You make $60,000. Okay.

Are you single? I'm married. Okay. Is this household income $60,000? Yes. Okay. Are you single? I'm married. Okay. Is this household income $60,000? Yes. Okay. Are both of you working outside the home? Yes. Okay. And you're living in New York City, correct?

Yes. Okay. I'm just curious because it's such a high cost of living out there. Are you guys struggling to just eat? That's my nearest city. I live in a different town, in a small town. Okay. because it's such a high cost of living out there. Are you guys struggling to just eat? That's my nearest city. I live in a different town, in a small town. Okay. But it's close to your city.

Got it. Whew. Okay. What company holds this debt? It's one of those... Let me see what's the name. It's one of those... Hold on, let me see the company. Because, it's one of those, hold on, let me see. Because I'm wondering if you can negotiate directly with them and say, listen, I want to pay you back. These interest rates are killing me trying to get this, get a handle

on the principal here. Could you bring the interest rate lower and I'm going to attack this thing and get you your money back? It's one of those credit unions. Okay. Have you been over there to talk to them no no not yet i just gave a call to one of these companies that's why i call you because i was like i don't want to make another mistake i already make i'm glad because i don't like these debt consolidation companies these debt relief these debt settlement they all work in a few different ways but largely what they'll tell you to do is, hey, stop making payments.

Don't make any payments. And you pay us that payment instead. And in the meantime, your credit gets tanked. It'll go to collections and they're going to try to settle. That's their strategy. That's exactly what he told me, not to make any payment, yes. Exactly. And that's their strategy.

And so instead of doing that, instead of stopping payments and, you know, tanking this thing, sending it to collections and causing this problem to get even worse, the key here is for you to attack it. Because you've tried to take the shortcuts. I'm going to pay off one debt by using another debt to pay off that debt, right? Yes, I'm on baby step one. I started to, like, line up my debts, but I'm, like, lost. How many more debts do you have?

Well, I have a lease and I have credit card debts, $10,000. Okay. And do you know what's left on the lease if you did an early buyout? Yeah, the lease ends on September, but I would like to refinance and keep the car and buy it out because I already paid half of the car, so that's my only transportation that I have. What's the car worth?

It's $29,000. Whoa. And you guys make $60,000 a year. Yeah, we're drowning. Don't you think that was a lot of car to buy? Well, at the moment, the payment seems okay, you know, the monthly payments, but I'm almost done with it. One of the keys, Catalina, to breaking free from this debt cycle is to not use the language of broke people. So here's what broke people ask. How much down? How much a month?'s what broke people ask. How much down?

How much a month? Wealthy people ask, how much? Can I afford it in full? And so that's the kind of question I want you to ask because you will become a wealthy person. That is going to be your identity, and now we're just going to take some steps to get there. So you've got the lease, you've got the credit cards,

you've got the personal loan. What else is out there? That's it. Just the lease, the credit card, and the loan. That's plenty. Don't worry. That's enough. And so we need to get our income up. How quickly can we get our income up? Are both of you working full-time right now? I'm doing some side work. Sometimes I do a day extra and I get almost $300. So I'm trying to get side work. Okay. And you have a husband? A week.

Yes. What is he doing for work? He cooks. Okay. And so are you both making about $30,000 or is one making a lot more? Well, he makes less than me. Okay. What does it look like for him to go make more income?

Well, he's about to retire next month, so it's probably going to be less. Retire? You can't afford it, sweetheart. Well, he's going to retire to to get a paycheck but he's gonna keep working so it's gonna be like you know a little more income how old are you two uh no 50 he's uh almost 50 almost 65 he's 60 almost 65 so he does he have a pension or a 401 how's he going to retire uh nothing he has nothing you yeah you can't retire sweetheart y'all are broke and where

does that leave you have any money now trying to pay off all of this debt with half the income well it's gonna be bashing him more because the Social Security money will be a plus because he's going to keep working his hours. Okay. I don't understand the concept.

I thought the whole point of retirement was to not be working. Yeah, no, not for him. But hold on. When he retires, where is he going to get extra money from? He's going to stay at his job, and then he's going to collect from Social Security.

Okay, so by retirement, you mean he's going to start collecting? He's going to start collecting, exactly. Not like stop working. Got it. Okay, okay. I would rethink this whole plan. I think you guys need to figure out how we're going to go into retirement completely debt-free. And number one, I would look into the buyout of the lease, and then I would sell that car. It is not a car you should be driving. So even if you do buy it, you don't keep it. You're going to buy it in order to then sell it to make that $30,000, and then you're going to get a much cheaper car in cash. Okay. I like that. And how

do I resell it? Well, you can go private party on like, you know, Facebook marketplace. That's one way to go in your local community. There's reselling sites like auto trader. You could list it on a Craigslist. And then with the credit card side, we need to cut those up. They've not been a blessing in your life. Have you used the credit cards recently to stay afloat? Well, I just use it for like the monthly payments like the, you know, but I paid at the end of the month, most of them. It's just one that I have. You said you had $10,000 in credit card debt. Yeah. Well, then you don't pay it off at the end of the month i think we stop we need to stop

getting starry-eyed about what you hope will happen when you start using these lenders money and start looking at what we need to do to never need a lender again and never need one of these programs and never need to pay off the credit cards with a personal loan because the interest is better do you see how this is broke people math and broke people mentality? Yes. You guys work too hard to be living like this at 1565. I know. That's why I need your help. That's why I decided to call you. Well, help me help you. Here's the deal. I'm going to gift you Financial Peace University. I want you to watch all nine lessons with your husband. We're going to craft a plan to get our

income up, even if that means he's working and not collecting Social Security for another few years. And your goal is we are not going to stop working until our debts are paid off and we have some stability and peace in our life. And that might be a four-year journey for you, but it will be worth it. So hang on the line. Christian's going to pick up and we'll gift you Financial Peace University. Just promise me you'll go through it, watch every lesson, and take what we've said to heart. Thank you, Catalina. I will.

We are cheering you on. Goodness, I just want to strangle some lenders, John. They disgust me. Debt settlement, debt relief, get a clue. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Well, guys, insurance is a big deal. This is the defense you play as

you begin to build wealth. And if you want some help in that area, we've got Ramsey Trusted Pros who can shop the market, compare insurance quotes so you don't have to. And your pro will compare quotes, discounts, bundling deals for you at no extra cost. And these Ramsey Trusted Pros will also make sure you have all the coverage you need and nothing you don't. And we vet these folks, we interview them, we coach them to make sure that they are market experts who have your best interests at heart. So if you're wondering if you have the right coverage based on your individual needs, be sure to find out for yourself at ramseysolutions.com slash coverage and you can take our free coverage checkup quiz. It's quick, it's simple,

and you will have more peace by the time you're done. Let's go to the phones. Victoria's up next in Vancouver, British Columbia. What's going on, Victoria? How can we help? Hi, my husband and I are on baby step seven, and we have begun the process to immigrate from Canada to the U.S. And I was wondering how much should we be saving for our family to for medical expenses? So we have five or sorry, we have four kids, five and under. Part two. And the timeline to immigrate would be maybe five years, maybe 15 years. So there's lots of time to save. Yeah. Well, I don't think medical expenses are something to worry about.

Are you guys going to be working here? Well, my husband will be, but in Canada, we don't pay anything. Brag about it. So he'll probably have, if he's working for an employer, he'll likely have, you know, an employer-subsidized health care plan, or is he going to start his own business? He is self-employed, and so he would just be moving his business. Okay. So you guys would just be kind of shopping the marketplace for health insurance,

and you can start that process now. You can jump on RamseySolutions.com and get connected with a health insurance pro who can walk you through the options. Here's what it is today. If you move here today, here's what the cost would be. Here's the things to look out for. Here's the monthly premium. Here's where your out-of-pocket max would be. And so I wouldn't overthink it. I mean, just know that it can be variable because of, you know, being self-employed and just shopping over the marketplace. It might be, you know, for a family of six, it could be 3000 bucks a month for healthcare. Okay. And so I would get at least a figure. Now that's going to change five to 15 years from now, but it will be far more expensive than if you just had an employer subsidized plan. And then on top of that, just making sure you have the out-of-pocket maximum. So let's say it's with your plan, $15,000 is the max that you pay before insurance covers the rest. I would make sure to have that in an emergency fund.

Or if you have a high deductible health plan here in the States, you can get something called a health savings account where it's triple tax savings. You put the money in tax-free, it will help you grow it tax-free where you can invest the money and you can use it tax-free for qualified medical expenses. So that's another great way to help cover some of those costs. And how often do you pay $15,000? That's like if you had all five of your kids in a car, and this is all an awful hypothetical, so forgive me, and there was a bad car wreck,

and everybody had to go to the emergency room, the most you would pay is $15,000. Then the insurance company has to pick up 100% after that. So it's catastrophic. Or if, like, I don't know're if you're like me growing up you are always breaking something breaking a bone and let's say i got infected the most you're gonna so that out of pocket is the cap and so george and i both we both have kids and so we have in our emergency fund i have in my emergency fund the maximum amount of money

that I could ever have to pay in a single year. It's there. And so I have never had to use that ever in my life. But if it did, I would have it. And I'm just throwing random numbers out there, Victoria. Yeah, just making them up. Because every plan is going to be different. I think ours is $10,000.

My plan is nowhere near that. I think with the family plan, we're on a high-deductible health care plan through here through ramsey i think it's like seven or eight thousand maybe for family maybe 10 max yeah so that 15 was a made up high end number but there's there's a cap to i think the illusion outside of the u.s is every time you go to the doctor you have to pay for it out of pocket and it's fifty thousand dollars every time you go that's just not true. Okay. So I think some facts would help you to,

I think right now it's just this kind of like the unknown is so scary. And so jumping on ramsaysolutions.com, talking with a health insurance pro, they'll just be able to give you some ballpark numbers to give you some ease and go, all right, here's what you would really need to cover day in, day out. Here's what you need in an emergency. Here's what it would cost per month. And that'll give you a better picture. Okay. Now, health, medical costs aside,

would you think it is a wise suggestion to move from Canada to the U.S. in terms of financial gains? I mean, I'm so biased. I'm so like, you know, America, I think this is the greatest country. I would never leave it. So I'm a little biased towards that. I think there's a lot of opportunity here. We've got our fair share of problems. I'm not going to pretend like it's perfect. But, you know, I think it's a wonderful place to live that has tons of opportunity. And it's kind of like college. It's like you get what you put into it and you can make it what you want it to be. I can tell you this, from my friends who live in Canada, in Tennessee where we live and every state has different income tax brackets or different state income tax, we have no state income tax in Tennessee.

None. Yeah, we were thinking of moving to Tennessee. Well, it's a beautiful place. And so like your tax rate is going to be dependent on how much you make, but you're just going to pay federal taxes if you live in a state like this. And then on the high end, it would be up to 35% of your income if you were making a whole bunch of money. And so when you think of how much taxes you pay at home,

it's going to depend on how much you're making and all that. But my Canadian friends sure are jealous of how much of my money I get to take home. And how much cheaper everything is. When Canadian callers call in, Victoria, my brain like explodes when they tell me just how much the groceries are and cost of living and all of these things. So I do think there's some benefits there to be had, but just two guys' opinion who have only lived in America. So take it with a grain of salt. That's right. But I wish you guys the best. That's a big decision, big move. And call us back if you need any help along the way. I love living in Tennessee for whatever that's worth. It is a wonderful place.

I'm not going to be too excited and invite everyone because, you know, it's getting busy over here. We're closed for business. I don't mind. Keep coming. Keep moving. Keep it moving. It's good times. All right.

Let's try to get to one quick one here from Keith in Newark, New Jersey. What's happening, Keith? Hi, guys. Big fan of the show. I appreciate you taking my call. Yeah. So I'm trying to advise my father, who is 81 years old, lives a very active lifestyle, completely independent. And he's looking at his future needs for his medical care.

He's considering a continuing care retirement community. And I'm a little concerned about the situation of putting all of his eggs in one basket and limiting his ability to make decisions, you know, to be flexible with his spending and his healthcare needs in the future. So what's it going to cost? So roughly what he's looking at, so he's probably got about 2 million saved up. The buy-in is 450 down and about $5,600 a month. So what does that include? So that's nothing really. That's just a condo. So that's independent living. If he wants to progress to acute care, assisted living, that comes with additional costs and can be up to $14,000 a month. My concern is when I actually do some back-of-the-envelope math, if he puts down $450,000 and he's paying $5,600 a month, for the first four years, he's essentially paying $17,000.

Just for the ability to possibly use the assisted living, which he may or may not need. Yeah, I agree. Based on what you laid out, this does not seem like a great plan. He can live where he wants to live, and when he needs assisted living, let's move to that option. Yeah, and unfortunately, this is a much deeper conversation here. I think there's some conversations about friendship and community and safety. So have those conversations with your dad. Sorry we didn't have enough time to unpack it, but that's a very layered conversation.

You're wise to tread with caution here. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 103, 13. As a father has compassion for his children, so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him. Charles Kettering said, Every father should remember that one day his son will follow his example, not his advice. Ooh.

I love that. That's his version of more is caught than taught. I like that. And again, happy Father's Day this weekend for all who celebrate. That's you, John. That's me. It's a big weekend for me. One of the best dads I know.

And me. This is my first Father's Day, John. Thanks for acknowledging that. Yeah, congratulations. Thank you. We did it. Excited to see what Mia gets me. Yeah, she better come strong.

Yeah, I mean, you're not getting breakfast in bedited to see what Mia gets me. Yeah. She better come strong. Yeah. I mean, you're not getting breakfast in bed from a nine-month-old. How well did you do on Mother's Day? Not great, but I feel like it was a win. I did all the things I could think to do. So you should expect what you did divided by three. I expect nothing. That's how I live my life.

I completely disagree with that. Keep the bar low. You already have a picture of that morning already laid out. I honestly forgot it was happening. That's how humble I am. Kelly is saying words that I cannot say. The number of thoughts going through my head that I'm not going to say because we're on the radio.

All right, let's do what we do, John. Danny is in Orlando up next. How can we help danny all right how's it going gentlemen good what's up uh well i find myself uh very much in a poor mindset and i was listening to your conversations earlier right and buying vehicles finding out what the down payment was versus a monthly payment uh 34 years old today, find myself in about $50,000 worth of debt. Salary making about $88,000 a year. Have a home, purchased it about four years ago,

so it's gone up significantly or good enough, I think, in equity, upward to $100,000. However, the debt-to-income ratio, I think, has finally caught up. And I think the writing was on the wall a few years ago, but I've been able to kind of stave it off as much as possible. Unfortunately, today I find myself making minimum payments, sometimes missing payments, dealing with late fees, penalties, and really just making the bare minimum,

sometimes missing those payments, in turn having negative effects on my credit score, which are obviously impacting me long-term for any loans or anything of the sort. So the question is, well, what do you promote or advise that I do? But what I have thought about is selling the home that I currently have, using the equity to pay off the debt, in turn raise the credit. I should have some money left over at the time to purchase another income-generating property. That's the last thing we need to look into is business opportunities. Okay, Danny, I can sense I'm less concerned about your credit score.

I'm more concerned about Danny. You sound like a guy who just got punched in the face. Well, yeah. You just seem just tired. I'm just done. I'm overwhelmed. If I get one more overdue bill, like, are you ready to just live a different life? Yes, sir.

Are you single? No, I'm not. I have a wife at home, two children, and I think that's a big part of it, right? Looking at 30 years down the road, what life am I able to provide them? Is she as exhausted as you? Yes, yes, yes. Okay. What do you do for a living?

Turn it around. What's that now? What's your job? What do you do for a living? Make $88,000. I'm an EHS manager, environmental health and safety manager. Okay. What kind of debt is the $50,000?

Break it down. Come again? What kind of debt? It's two vehicles, about $15,000 each. Some of it is investments that I made in the property, perimeter fence, water softener unit, some credit cards. That's minimal. I think that's like $2,500 to $3,000. But the bulk of it, it's the vehicles, the property improvements.

And this is for your primary home? You did these improvements? Yes, sir. Okay. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah, dude, stop calling those property investments. You wanted a water softener on your house.

Like just call it what it is because it allows you to band-aid or duct tape over. Like you wouldn't normally spend that money or maybe you would, but just call it what it is, dude. I wanted a nice fence and I built a nice fence. I wanted a water softener, got a water softener. I wanted to upgrade the flooring. I did that. I did that. Let's don't wrap it up into like...

The ROI. Yeah. Okay. So what are the cars worth? They're upside down on the vehicles. I bought them like two years ago. Have you checked like Kelly Blue Book private party value on these?

Yeah, I think it's about $16, $18 and they're valued like $10, $18,000, and they're, oh, you know, they're valued like $10,000, $8,000, something like that. Okay, you said you had $15,000 on each. You're saying there's $16,000 to $18,000 on each? Something like that. I'll be honest, I don't know the exact numbers, but it's between that $15,000 to $18,000 range, and I say that because there's late fees that have compounded on there. So if it was $15,000 at one point, the late fees have brought it up now.

Well, please do not let this car get repoed. You need to get out of this thing. Even if you're underwater, here's two options for you to get out from under this. Number one, you save up the difference in cash. You have a great income. I don't know where it's going right now. I don't buy that it's just going to the minimum payments. I think there's some spending and lifestyle happening here, too, right?

Yeah, I mean, mortgage payment is $2,700. And what do you take home every month? A big chunk of it is about $5,000, give or take. Whew. $5,500. Yeah, so about half your income is just going to try to cover the mortgage. Exactly. Well, I'll tell you this.

Selling the house is a last- last ditch napalm, we tried everything else and we couldn't scrape out of the debt after years of trying. That's when I would say sell the house. But to me right now, it feels like a cheap shortcut. And I do think this was too much payment for you. I think if we can't get the income up long term, then selling the house is a good idea just because it's too much of your world. But don't do it as a temporary shortcut. That's where I find myself. Yeah, and that's where I find myself, right? Most of my income

is going to the property, to the house. Do you have any money in savings? No, I can't. All of it has been slowly chipped away, and that's what I meant by the writing was on the wall. Once I saw that savings slowly fade away, that's when I should have made some drastic changes. But I had enough to kind of make it buy up until now, but now it's paycheck to paycheck. What about your lifestyle stuff? Do y'all go out to eat a lot?

Not anymore. Okay. We used to. I tell you, we did have a lifestyle where, you know, comfortable. We would go out and everything was paid tip-top. Credit score was in the 700s. This all really turned downhill within the past four years and quite pinpointed. And obviously, it's my fault.

I think too much debt all at once. What are the car payments? $500 and $600. Okay. So here's the other option. I mentioned saving up the difference in cash of the difference you're underwater on. That way you can sell the car and you have a clean title. The other option is going to your local credit union and getting a loan for the difference.

And so that way instead of being $18,000 in debt, you're in debt for the difference. And at least that gets you out of the car, frees up a payment. Can you guys live on one car for now, or do you need two? We essentially are. One of the vehicles, it's not even registered because I can't afford that. Well, can you work overtime, side hustles? I'm a salary employee, so it's not a real overtime situation but yes i'm a very yeah i'm a handyman i do a lot of handy work and i'm not afraid to work so i've what do you charge for handyman work cleaned out thing it i charge by the job i don't charge by

the hour but danny there's something that you make 88 000 you almost make 90 grand. Yes, sir. I don't understand. Help me with this. I don't understand where this all goes. Yeah. No, you're probably taking a pension, right? A little bit, a little bit here and there, but nothing that's steady enough for me to say, yep, this is my investment plan.

You need to point all the guns at the debt, which means no investing, no eating out. Every extra penny we can scrounge up is going toward our smallest balanced debt. We're going to knock that out. Which is the smallest debt? Credit card? Yeah. Okay, so we knock that out.

The problem is, here's the thing, and you kind of picked up on my tone of voice. I have a hard time looking at that when I am behind on the HOA, I am behind on the mortgage payments, and now I'm looking at a potential eviction from my home. Well, if you're going to get evicted, then we've got to sell it before you hit this point. But I think we need to take an honest look. Right now, you don't even know your debt numbers. Go pull your credit reports from all three bureaus. You can do that for free, annualcreditreport.com. Get a real picture, sit down with your wife, and say, we're in crisis. We need a plan.

Hang on the line. I'm going to send you my book, Breaking Free from Broke, to help you navigate some of this. Brother, this is happening to you. You can go down with this ship or you can get a path off. But this is happening. You've got to look at these numbers. I know it hurts. I know it's scary.

You have to look at these numbers. That puts this hour of The Ramage Show in the books. Thank you to Dr. John Deloney, the folks in the booth, and you, America. Thanks for listening. We'll books. Thank you to Dr. John Deloney, the folks in the booth, and you, America. Thanks for listening. We'll be back before you know it. Hey, folks, Dave here. You want to hear even more life-changing content from Ramsey? Download the Ramsey Network app so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place, like The Ramsey Show, Smart Money Happy Hour, and The Dr. John Deloney Show.

You'll get real talk about life, relationships, money, and your career. Plus, the app lets you browse by topic like debt, business, or selling your home. Get the content you want whenever and wherever you want to listen. Download the Ramsey Network app today.