The Ramsey Show - Shortcuts Today Mean Setbacks Tomorrow

Starting point is 00:00:00 Brought to you by the Every Dollar App. Start budgeting for free today. This is The Ramsey Show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their profession and their relationships. The phone number for you to jump in today, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Alongside the lovely and talented Rachel Cruz, I am Ken Coleman. You ready to go, partner? Always always, Ken.

Starting point is 00:00:35 All right, here we go. Tina is going to start us off in Houston, Texas. Tina, how can we help today? Hi, thank you for taking my call. I'm excited to talk to you guys. I'm a little bit nervous on what you're going to tell me but there's my dilemma. I have an opportunity, a new career opportunity. One of the questions on the application said you cannot have filed bankruptcy to deceive your creditors ever. So I answered no that I had not but over 35 years ago I filed bankruptcy only because I wanted to save my parents home who passed away

Starting point is 00:01:16 and it had started to go into foreclosure. So I did a quick claim deed to put it in my name so that I could file bankruptcy and save a home. So my question is, will they be able to see that? And how would they be able to see that? Well, the only reason they would be able to see it is if they pulled your credit report. And so on that, yes, there would be the bankruptcy. But I think it disappears within a time frame. And I think 35 years exceeds that.

Starting point is 00:01:56 So I am. Are you Googling? Are you looking up real quick? I know the time frame itself. Yeah, I think 35 years, it exceeds it, but my question to you, Tina, is Was there any part of you because it said did you file bankruptcy and you said no? Correct. Right. Yes Is there is there anything within you though from like a conscious standpoint of saying hey I did It was 35 years ago and here's the reason why versus lying?

Starting point is 00:02:26 Well, see, there lies the dilemma, because I really didn't file bankruptcy to defraud my creditors. I had other creditors that I could have added to that bankruptcy. Yeah, but you filed bankruptcy to defraud your parents' creditors. Right, not mine. The question says mine. I know, but you're playing some massive political semantics. You should run for Congress. I think you've got a real skill for being an elected official. Here's the question. No, no, no, no. You called us. You called us.

Starting point is 00:03:05 Okay. You're right. Go ahead. So first of all, by the way, I'm not judging you. Okay. I'm just simply saying you're doing some unbelievable mental and ethical gymnastics. You defrauded, you lied about your bankruptcy, true or false? True. Okay, so it's not my opinion, it's not Ken judging, but you called, so that's the first issue. The second issue is not only did you do that, you lied on your application. And then you called us and you said, can they find out? And according to the rules here, you got chapter seven, bankruptcies are usually remaining

Starting point is 00:03:55 on your record for 10 years and then 13 would be seven years. What was yours? Was yours 13 or seven? Yeah. So, okay, so you're saying that it's not visible if they were to pull my credit report? According to what I've seen on the internet, but you should pull your own credit report on this because you've lied. And so now you're hoping that you don't get caught lying.

Starting point is 00:04:16 Bob, yeah, I've never seen it. Tina, is the employer, like, do you have a contact to them personally or is this like an internet application or something and there's like a faceless person behind it? Well, it was an online application and once you say yes, you can explain. That's why I said no so that I can explain. Once you say yes, you're not able to explain your situation. Why did you ask that, Rachel?

Starting point is 00:04:48 I'm curious. Why did I ask what? That question you just asked her. Well, because I was gonna say, if you can call the person, at least to get your conscience right, and just to say, hey, this happened on the application, here's why I said it,

Starting point is 00:04:57 because it didn't give me another, like at least to be able to explain, to try to save the situation. I just wouldn't want wanna go into a work environment knowing I had lied and you're just, there's a little bit of you that will always be looking over your shoulder. Yeah, and Tina, here's my concern for you.

Starting point is 00:05:11 And again, no judgment here, but I'm just giving you my thoughts. Let's say you get through the process because you did lie and your whole point is what you're telling Rachel and I is, I lied so that I don't get dismissed because I wanna get the interview, at which point I'm going to come clean on something I lied about 35 years ago.

Starting point is 00:05:30 That's what you're telling us you're going to do. So if I believe you, I still think that could blow up in your face because they could go, well, you lied on the application about the fact that you lied 35 years ago. You know, I could see a lot of hiring managers go, I don't know that I can trust you.

Starting point is 00:05:47 It's a good story. It sounds very Robin Hood-esque. That's why I'm not, I mean, seriously. I thought the same thing. I'm not judging you. Sounds noble. Sure. But it's-

Starting point is 00:05:59 There's at least a story behind. I mean, like, yeah. But what line of work are you in, Tina? Is it like financial? No, no, it's sales. Why would they ask that? I thought that was a very specific. That's what I'm wondering. Yeah, why is it so specific about that on the job application?

Starting point is 00:06:17 Well, I mean, I really can't go too deep into that part because... So you're applying for a job where it matters? Right or the employer is gonna listen to this segment Yeah, you think are you using a fake name, by the way? Don't put her on the spot. She put herself on the spot. She called into a really big show. You called into a national show and told us about two massive lies, and you're worried about me putting her on the spot?

Starting point is 00:07:01 Here's what I was asking. No, no, no, stay with me. I'm not dumb enough to ask you the name of the spot. Here's what I was asking. No, no, no, stay with me. I'm not dumb enough to ask you the name of the company. I mean, I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I'm not that dumb. I'm asking, what industry is it in? What type of work is it that would ask that question? I can't tell you because it would give too much information on this company. I got to tell you something, Tina. If you don't have a future in Congress, you have a future working for the FBI or the CIA.

Starting point is 00:07:27 Thank you, I appreciate that. Thank you, maybe I'll change my career path. You probably should. I feel like this is straight out of the headlines. Well, my advice to you, Tina, would be if you end up getting the interview, you have to come clean for your own, you know what I mean, your own company.

Starting point is 00:07:44 Yeah, but I mean, good luck. She may not get the job because of us, which you're saying. I'm saying it's a roll of the dice. Yes, but they may also be like, oh, that's great. OK, yeah, that part doesn't really matter. And then they may move on. I don't know. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:07:58 35 years ago, you did it to Daisy's fathered home. Look at you, Tina. You are running for Congress from the great state of Texas. You're going to do great on the Sunday morning shows. You'll do great in all of the... It's a joke. Really not complimenting you. Let me tell you something.

Starting point is 00:08:13 Yeah. Let me tell you something. When I did that, we were able to save the home and we were able, my sisters and I were able to sell the home. I get this, this is an old thing called the ends justify the means. Not a new concept, not a new concept at all. I think it's a tough situation, I'm not judging you.

Starting point is 00:08:36 You did what you did, you're a nice, nice daughter. You got yourself in a situation potentially, hope it goes well, I'd take the Dyson with me and roll them baby. Roll them. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Life can be chaotic. work can be stressful, and when your life outside of work and your work life collides, your mind and your body feels it.

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Starting point is 00:10:46 Edward, how can we help? Yes, hi. Currently I'm unemployed and my wife is working and we have two cars as it is. One of them has some sort of debt on it and the other one is at the point where it won't pass inspection anymore. I was wondering, you know, my wife wants me to go and get a new car, a used car that's $25,000, and she wants me to ask my family for the money. And I was like, wondering, should I do this? Have you borrowed money before from your family? Is why she brought

Starting point is 00:11:14 this up or is this a new idea? No, I have not bought money from my family before. She wants me to go ask my dad for the money. Yeah. And what was your reaction? I got a lot of money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I know the answer to this, but what was your reaction when she suggested that? My reaction was like, you don't need a new car. We already have two cars. Oh. Fantastic answer.

Starting point is 00:11:38 You said one has a dent and then the other is what? It can't pass inspections, is that what you're saying Yeah, the first one that we have is a newer car You know $2,000 on that car the the second car was a gift from her parents and it will no longer pass inspection Why then? It just needs more work than it's worth for fixing. Okay. Do you guys have any cash saved up? We have about $30,000 in cash. How much? 30,000? I have some work to do. 30,000, yes.

Starting point is 00:12:09 Okay, so why does your wife, I'm a little confused. Why doesn't she just want to use the money you guys have saved? I personally, I don't want to use one of we have saved because I'm unemployed right now and we rent and we just signed a new year lease and you know, we need that money to pay for rent. Edward, when are you gonna start working? I've been applying for jobs and trying. Is the second car, well we'll get to that in a minute, is the second car drivable? Yes. How often do you have to do inspections in New York? Yeah. When is it coming up? Do? It's due.

Starting point is 00:12:48 We got rejected a couple of days ago. And so what? Your tags can't get updated? Like what's the repercussions of it in New York? So I'm actually near New York. So the repercussions are that, yeah, the repercussions are that if it's not fixed within a certain time, like I guess you just keep going and going and going but after a certain point I really don't know. No no no no if you didn't get

Starting point is 00:13:10 passed. We need a new car because she wants a bigger car she wants a bigger car. Oh I know this is what she wants this entire thing is about what she wants you don't want it we're trying to help you through this because I understand you're trying to save your cash because you're unemployed and so I'm gonna get real practical here. This is not normal financial advice. This is what I would do. I can't wait to see what Rachel thinks about this.

Starting point is 00:13:33 If I was in your situation and you didn't get passed on your inspection, which means you can't get your up-to-date registration on the car, correct? Correct. I'd roll the dice on that one. I love a little civil disobedience from time to time. I see some people in the audience are, oh, we have a lot of people agreeing with this. So now I don't care what Rachel says at all.

Starting point is 00:13:55 I would roll the dice on that and look for cops everywhere. I've done that game before and it's kind of like Frogger. You're like, oh, I think there's a cop on my back left about a half mile away. I really would roll the dice until you got employed. Because then I would use the 30,000 to buy a nice car, but tell her, no, babe, you've already got your fancy new car that we owe two grand. Now we're paying that baby off. And then once I'm employed, we're're gonna take some of the 30 and get you a reliable car in the 10 to 15 range that's where my head goes she says none of them none of them she says neither of them are big enough for her why what is there is there eight kids we only

Starting point is 00:14:39 have one kid have you ever taken issue with anything your wife has said and if you have, how did that go? That's kind of personal. Yeah, so is this whole phone call. So is borrowing money from your parents, Edward. What's the answer? Because I just hit a nerve, by the way, and everybody knows. He said that was personal.

Starting point is 00:15:02 Yeah, go ahead. What's the answer to my very personal question? Sure I have, but you know what, I'm just kind of losing my time. I'm kind of putting my foot down on this thing. I don't think we need another car. Good, put your foot down. And let me say this, you're not being unreasonable, Edward. You're unemployed. You guys have money saved. You're choosing not to spend your money on a purchase you need and you're gonna go and extend yourself Not only just to a bank but to your family to borrow money Something that you don't need like there's like three things right there that are like, no No, by the way, you agree with us on all of this. You don't agree that you called us to get confirmation

Starting point is 00:15:42 That's what you call it. What kind of cars do y'all have now? We have a Lexus and a very old Highlander. All right. So is it a car, a sedan or an SUV, the one she's driving? They're both SUVs. Oh, and so the Lexus SUV is just a little too small. I'm going to tell you, man, I'm going to review this because this is cutting wrong for us. It's really sad. I would. I mean, I'm, I feel claustrophobic thinking about it, Ken. Yeah, I would tell the wife, sweetheart, I'm sorry.

Starting point is 00:16:13 Your car's big enough. And I would roll the registration dice. I think you can dodge cops for a while. How long do you think it's gonna take you to get a job, Edward? I've been trying. For how long? I mean, I took a package in five months. I took a decent-sized package from work, and I'm looking. So what does that mean?

Starting point is 00:16:32 When does your package end? Because you're living off of your severance, I'm guessing. No, no. So, like, it was a one-month sum, and I lived eight months' pay. Was that part of the $30,000? Yes, some of that is. What were you making before you got laid off or like a- I have one lump sum and I live eight months pay. Was that part of the 30,000? Yes, some of it is. What were you making before you got laid off? I was making 90 before taxes.

Starting point is 00:16:50 Bro, let me tell you something. I'm gonna tell you this, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart. I appreciate the fact that you're trying. I don't think you're trying well enough. I'm gonna give you a couple of resources. But one of the best things you can do right now is get a job. It may

Starting point is 00:17:06 not be the $90,000 job that you had before, may not be in the career lane that you want to be in, but in this interim period, we know from psychology studies that losing a job has the same psychological and emotional impact as losing a loved one. And you need to get to work. While you're looking, you're working. And I don't care if it's a $25 an hour manual labor job, a $20 an hour job. I don't care. You need to be working because it's going to keep you going in the game physiologically. Yeah, and it's going to... All the things. And let me say this. That's going to take, that's a level of deep humility.

Starting point is 00:17:43 Yeah, it is. And for your wife not to have the car she wants is gonna take a level of like dying to self and deep humility. And there's some of this, and I don't know if it's true, Edward or not, but this keeping up lifestyle of continuing to want bigger and better constantly and not being satisfied if that's not the case

Starting point is 00:18:03 is a disease that we all have as Americans, right? And some may have it worse than others. But there's a contentment issue here too, Edward, for you and your wife and all of it. And if you live your life really dependent upon what other people think, from your job to your car, you guys are going to live an exhausted life. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. And so... Well, yeah, I think you're preaching to the choir on that one. It's just worth it. It's not worth it. And so... Well, yeah, I think you're preaching to the choir on that one. I just, you know, I don't need the car. I mean, I don't. I mean, I'm very happy with what I have. I've come from very little and, you know, I never took

Starting point is 00:18:35 private jet flights like my wife did and things like that. So it's like, I get it. So she's come from a certain lifestyle though. Oh, very let it slip. She's coming from a certain lifestyle though, Edward. Oh, there you let it slip. She's coming from a certain lifestyle, right? And her expectations are very high, correct? Yeah. Yeah, but listen. Yeah. Listen. But that's what I'm saying, I'm like, but genuinely.

Starting point is 00:18:53 You gotta say no. That's why I asked the question. I wasn't being funny. Yeah, and we can say no in this one instance. I worry for her though, in life, is what I'm saying. I know, but this is a marriage conversation. It totally is, I know. So he's gotta go, no, here's why, and we gotta get on the same page.

Starting point is 00:19:08 And Edward, I mean, I don't know. I don't want to put words in your mouth or make you concerned about something you're not, but there's an expectation in life, and it's coming up in this instance, and I'm sure it's come up in other instances, and it will continue to come up until the heart of the issue is hit on and that is that that's that's gratitude that's generosity that's humility like there is a character quality in all of us that is so key how long have you all been married? Three years. I can tell you what this is right now you all have an expectation problem. No she does is what it sounds like. But it's their problem. Her expectations are great.

Starting point is 00:19:47 Great expectations that become unmet expectations become massive frustrations. Man, this is a marriage issue and you're going to have to stand strong on this and go, we got to get on the same page, babe. Yeah, and I would be pushing some of this emotional stuff too for y'all to be growing and her to be, you know. Absolutely. Real quick, Edward, hang on the line.

Starting point is 00:20:08 Christian, let's get him a copy of The Proximity Principle. And the Contentment Journal for her. Oh, wow. Shots fired by Rachel Cruz. I do love her though. I'm sure she's my spirit animal. So like, oh no. I get it, switching banks is a pain in the you-know-what, but if your bank doesn't line up with your money goals, it's time to make the switch to Fairwinds Credit Union.

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Starting point is 00:22:36 at ramsysolutions.com slash agent. That's ramsysolutions.com slash agent. Olivia joins us now in Anchorage, Alaska. Olivia, how can we help? Hi, can you hear me? Loud and clear, what's up? Oh, good. Oh, good. My husband and I were on baby step two

Starting point is 00:22:57 and we've recently hit like a, I don't know, like a lull, I guess. We started with 111,000 in debt. Now we're at $43,000 in debt, not including our home. And I was wondering if maybe we should start downsizing our farm animals to try to speed up things. Tell us more about these farm animals, because as you might guess, Rachel and I really don't know farm animals. animals because as you might guess Rachel and I really don't know farm animals. I don't know if like I'm actually like a farmer but I did have. Well you know more than I do. I promise you that. So what do you give us a list like what are the

Starting point is 00:23:34 animals and by selling them how much money would you generate? So it wouldn't generate money it would just cut back our expenses which is which is where it's at. So, right, we started with 100 chickens, now we're down to 30. And so if I cut that down to like 10 or 15, then it would cut our expenses maybe in half. Oh, so it's just chickens. Like 100 a month. Yeah, it's just chickens. I mean- How much would it save you a month?

Starting point is 00:24:00 It's right now, the chicken food expenses, because I buy like this really expensive grain. There are $600 a month for all the pet expenses. So I think the chickens are $400 a month. So it would save me maybe $200 a month. How much you guys make a year? We make $89,000 a year. Okay. I got a quick question.

Starting point is 00:24:27 I'm clueless about this. Quick question, real quick. My friend has four city chickens. They just got them. How many eggs do 30 chickens produce? One a day, usually, right, Olivia? They sometimes can produce one a day, but our chickens lately have been giving us five,

Starting point is 00:24:42 which is really frustrating. Okay, here's my next question. It's really frustrating. Phenomenal. I'll take them. Why is that frustrating? I'll take them. I eat four eggs every morning, by the way.

Starting point is 00:24:51 Wow, great protein. Yeah. Yeah. My question is, to make some money, I understand the saving money, but are you selling these eggs and could you sell these? I have no idea what the egg market looks like for those fancy, you know, super chickens you've got that are super organic, well fed. Could you make enough money to help pay off debt if you kept the 30 versus, in other words, are you making enough money off of these things?

Starting point is 00:25:16 I don't think you're selling them, right? Like you're not. I was selling them and then they just stopped producing for some reason. They're not very old because they stopped producing at a certain age or if they're just losing their feathers and stuff. I thought you just said they're cranking out five a day. Yeah, 30 chickens are five a day, but I go through five eggs a day. Oh, 30 chickens are producing five eggs.

Starting point is 00:25:39 Not each chicken is five eggs. I was thinking 150 eggs a day. Me too. Okay. Yeah, I'd probably be getting rid of the chickens. Now, I'm sorry. Well, this is your problem with me trying to figure out this question. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:25:50 Okay, yeah, you get rid of the chickens. Yeah, yeah. Five a day. These are free-loading chickens. That's what I'm thinking. They're just eating really, really well. Eating some roost. I know.

Starting point is 00:26:01 These chickens are high on the hog here. You're giving them the best grain and they're collectively only pumping out five eggs a day. I know, yeah. You know what those are? Those are welfare chickens. Yeah. Hey, get in the subsidies, baby. Not a lot of production. Sorry, little political reference. The audience appreciating it. No, you're good. So yeah, I think you get rid of them.

Starting point is 00:26:25 Yeah, sorry, Olivia. But you're only saving $200 a month. 600. No, no. No, only 200 a month if I get rid of them. Why did I hear 600? She'll tell you. Yeah, 600 is my pet expenses,

Starting point is 00:26:38 but I can't get rid of my dogs. Oh, yeah. I don't have a bunch of dogs. I just have old dogs. Tell you what, you wanna hack people off? Talk to them about getting rid of their pets. George got into that trouble on the horse. I'm not going to touch the dogs. No, no, no. That's in a different category than even horses. So yeah. All right. So yeah, that's going to save you $200 a month.

Starting point is 00:27:01 And probably Olivia, just some manual work, right? Like that probably saves you some energy too, because you guys are working hard to get out of this debt. But what else do you think you guys can be doing? Like have you guys mapped out the rest of the $43,000? Because you guys have killed it. I mean, going from $43,000, we're at $111,000. Like that's amazing. Yeah, I actually called in and I talked to somebody I don't remember now, I think it was Jade and they were telling me to sell my forerunner which I owed $50,000 on. And so then I sold a forerunner, a boat, another car and we got the truck. And so now we have one vehicle. I don't know how to get rid of this last 40,000.

Starting point is 00:27:47 It feels like it's gonna take years. Oh, okay. So you know exactly how you're gonna do it. You're just gonna keep doing the dead snowball and just taking cuts at it. Now you gotta get some more income. So how do we get more income? Yeah, my husband's been doing some training to get raises. He's expected to get a raise again in another month. He just got one two months ago.

Starting point is 00:28:09 Okay, great. So what would those combined raises between the one he just got and the one he's going to get, how much will that add to your take home every month? I think it'll bring another $1,200 a month. Okay, so that's $1,200 a month we did in the head. And then the chickens are gone. So to add $200 on that, so you got $1,200 a month. Okay, so that's $1,200 a month we did in the head. And then the chickens are gone. Chickens are gone. So to add 200 on that, so you got 1,400. She got a heavy way to go. That's $1,400 a month that you guys are gonna be putting to this.

Starting point is 00:28:34 You're gonna knock this thing out way faster than you think. Let me tell you something, this is really important because you are at a place, and I love that you were honest and transparent with us, that you're feeling stuck. Like, oh, I'm mentally and emotionally, how are we gonna get the remaining 43? It's really important that you don't allow that voice

Starting point is 00:28:53 to win, and that you get focused on the fact that we just got a $1,400 a month raise, and that's $1,400 a month we can put towards this debt. Additionally, so what were you putting towards debt? Yeah, and even like two and a half years, Olivia, even at that rate. And then that doesn't even include if he gets a raise in a year from now,

Starting point is 00:29:12 you know, in a couple hundred extra bucks a month. So it's just, and you guys have been in it for a while, right, how long have you guys been working this? We started last February, but in between now and then, so I just had our second child and we got married and we paid for that in cash. And so I think just coming after, instead of just having one and now having two, it's just kind of a reality. For sure.

Starting point is 00:29:33 But let's do a real quick math, just to encourage you. How much money, excuse me, were you all putting towards the debt snowball each month prior to these raises and our chicken strategy. I think like a thousand dollars. So with the $1,400 that Rachel concocted there, that's $2,400 a month now. So now divide $43,000 by $2,400 and that's your number. Yeah, less than two years, Olivia. And that's the max. I mean, that's the max it's going to take. Less than two years.

Starting point is 00:30:02 You guys can do this. You got it. Yes. Okay, we can do this. Yes, of You guys can do this. You got it. Yes. Okay, we can do this. Yes, of course you can do it. Yes, yes, and it's one day at a time. It's been so long. I know. But your life is gonna be immeasurably better just by getting rid of these chickens. Focus on that. Almost like an extra three grand a month after all this has paid off that you guys are gonna have. It's gonna be great. It's great. It is so worth it. You guys just keep, it is a marathon though.

Starting point is 00:30:27 It is a marathon. Jade, her husband, you know, who you talked to, it took them what, seven and a half years? But they had close to half a million. But it was just that it is, yeah. It's a marathon, but yeah, you guys got this. And congratulations. Less than two years, you can do it, Olivia.

Starting point is 00:30:41 You can do it. Listen, you know what's going on? Congrats on my baby too. You're tired. Thank you. You're tired. Yes. Less than two years, you can do it, Olivia. You can do it. Listen, you know what's going on? Congrats on my baby too. You're tired. Thank you. You're tired. Yeah. Yes.

Starting point is 00:30:48 Baby number two? And with what, 30 chickens? 30 chickens. Oof. Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah. By the way, who do you sell the chickens to?

Starting point is 00:30:56 Who do you, how does that happen? Do you put that out on like Facebook or something? I don't think you can. I think you can sell animals. Oh, you can. No, you can sell chickens on Facebook. All right, she knows. I don't know. But. If I ever. think you can. I think you can sell animals. Oh, you can. No, you can sell chickens on Facebook. Alright, she knows. I don't know. If I ever...

Starting point is 00:31:08 People sell them for like $20 a piece. How much? Like $20. I think I could probably get $20 to $30 for mine. That's a pretty good deal given that these are welfare chickens and they're not producing. They are welfare chickens. How do you even sell a welfare chicken? These 30 don't lay eggs.

Starting point is 00:31:26 They just eat. Or you just say they're cute. You don't say anything about production. Just look how cute they are. You have 30 bucks to watch a chicken bebop around my backyard? I'm not doing it. If you're cranking out eggs,

Starting point is 00:31:38 I'd pay a premium for that. No, that'd be good eggs. I didn't, by the way, this is all very exciting to me, James. I had no idea there was such a thing as a welfare chicken. Didn't know. I've been helping people get margin back in their budget for over 30 years and switching your phone plan is one of the easiest wins out there, especially with Boost Mobile.

Starting point is 00:32:14 Boost gives you unlimited talk, text, and data for just $25 a month. And I'm not talking about some promo rate that goes up later. That $25 price is locked in forever. No contracts, no headaches, and with their 30-day money back guarantee there's no risk. So stop wasting money. Go to BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey today. Restrictions apply. See BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey for details. All right, let's go to Mackenzie next, who's joining us in Little Rock, Arkansas. Mackenzie, how can we help? Hi guys.

Starting point is 00:33:05 Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. So my question is, my husband and I currently in babysat two, we've been really tackling our debt for the past year. My question is, is it a bad decision for me to quit my job and become a stay at home mom,

Starting point is 00:33:21 possibly take a pay cut for the next year? How big of a pay cut? to pay a home loan, possibly take a pay cut for the next year. How big of a pay cut? I currently make about $76,000. Fifty-six of that is my salary and $20,000 is veterans' benefits. How much does your husband make? He makes about $90,000. So we would go to $90,000 for how long?

Starting point is 00:33:39 Well, it would be about $90,000 plus my $20,000 in benefits. So I would still have that little bit of income. And then he is potentially going to be getting a pay raise in about a year to a year and a half. Well, I think the simple question always in this scenario is if you go back to the $20,000 or whatever your situation is, are you guys going to be tight or are you guys going to have some margin? I think you guys gonna be tight or are you guys gonna have some margin? I think that we would be tight. I've tried running the numbers.

Starting point is 00:34:10 I currently hold our benefits, like health insurance and things like that. So that's something that we would have to switch over to him. I think in general, we would have a little bit of a margin, but definitely not like what we have right now. How much debt do you guys have left McKinsey?

Starting point is 00:34:25 We have about 75,000. That's two cars and a student loan. Okay. How much are the cars? I have a loan for 17. My husband has one for about 20. And then he has a student loan for 30. Okay.

Starting point is 00:34:44 How much are they worth? the 17 and the 20? I haven't really checked into it. I don't think that we're in the hole on them, but I'm not really sure what the worth would be right now. Yeah. And how old are the kids? Well, I have a six-year-old who's in school, and I have a four-year-old who will have to wait one more year from her birthday to go into kindergarten.

Starting point is 00:35:09 Okay, okay. What are the combined car payments? $875. I would look at trying to sell those. If you want to come home, one of the first things I'd be doing is how do we downsize our car situation, because now we gave ourselves an $860 a month raise, which would probably give you more margin. Gotcha. That's at a minimum.

Starting point is 00:35:34 That's at a minimum right now. Is there a way for you to tough it out? Is it even possible emotionally, physically, all the things to stay with your job until you pay off the debt? Yeah, so I mean, technically, I, you know, I actually really enjoy working. I don't really want to go back to being at home. But my daughter who is in daycare, the one that has to wait another year to go to kindergarten, she is just not thriving. I feel like it would be better for her to be at home with me

Starting point is 00:36:05 so I can meet her needs a little bit better. Is there something specific that's really, really like special need type situation or she just struggling in general? And she does well like socially and academically. She does have some feeding issues where she's, you know, some days refusing to eat most of the day and they're trying to coerce her to eat, you know, things like that.

Starting point is 00:36:28 Does she do that with you? She is really picky at home as well, but I can get her to eat a little bit more because I can spend more time, you know, working with her. Okay, so tell me this, Mackenzie, will she start kindergarten next like August or September? Yes, so not just August, but next August. Is your position, are you in a scenario where if you did come home for a year, you could go back? I don't think I would go back into the same position I'm in currently, but I work in a

Starting point is 00:36:58 field that I could easily find another job. Maybe not as high paying, but yeah, the other thing but the other thing is my husband in about a year and a half will actually be getting a pay raise to the amount that I'm currently making in my position. Okay. Here's an idea, and I'm by no means suggesting this is the silver bullet. May not be a good idea, but hearing what I just heard, if I were you, knowing that you like to work, it's good income, and it's really kind of a unique situation, I wonder if there's an older family member

Starting point is 00:37:33 or an older grandmother that's retired, that's still vibrant, that has the one-on-one ability that you have that could build trust with your daughter. I just wonder instead of a traditional daycare, if you didn't find somebody to be in the home with her and work through this. And the reason I'm saying I would try that is because let's say you do this and you come home and you're able to coax her because of the relationship and you get her where she's eating.

Starting point is 00:37:59 She's still, either this thing gets solved between now and kindergarten, or you may be faced with a homeschool situation if she does the same thing at kindergarten. I'm sure you've thought through that. Right. I just wonder, is that a viable idea to have somebody in the home? You continue to work because you enjoy it, number one. Number two, it's great income. And then you've got somebody that's one-on-one with her, highly trusted, loves her, cares for her. Is that a possibility or no?

Starting point is 00:38:28 If it was a family member, no, we don't have that possibility right now. But I have looked into doing like a nanny in the home, but considering the hours that we work and our commute to work and the pay, it would be astronomical. I mean, we're already paying way too much for daycare anyways. So it would just. Yeah, I wasn't talking a professional, Nanny. I'm talking like an older.

Starting point is 00:38:52 A family member. We did this, by the way. When Stacey was working and the kids were late elementary, maybe one in middle school, we love her, Ms. Pam. And we looked and we looked and we talked. We didn't put out an ad. We we looked and we looked and we talked. We didn't put out an ad. We just used our personal relationships and our connections and we found Miss Pam. And Miss Pam was probably 62 but very strong and very healthy. She was retired and she

Starting point is 00:39:17 wanted to do something. And so we had her there for X amount of hours a day doing mom helper stuff. But in this situation, I would at least try it in this particular situation. If it doesn't work, totally get it. It was just an idea there, but what are your thoughts here? Hearing all this. I think, I don't know, my whole take on things is I make decisions fighting for peace.

Starting point is 00:39:40 Like how can I have the most peace in my life? What are things that I can do? And that's one reason we do this show is because people don't have peace with their money. So you're like, they don't have peace at work. And it's like, okay, what decisions do we have to make in order to gain the most peace, right? And so for you guys, Mackenzie,

Starting point is 00:39:54 that's a very personal question to you and your husband. And if there is not, I just imagine as a mom, if there was something happening and one of our children who will not be named is the one, she doesn't struggle with like the eating stuff Mackenzie, but she's our she's our one that really she's your drama queen. She's our she's great She's awesome. She was really struggling at school Like I would have so I would be so distracted at work like it would just it would be torturous. It'd be terrible

Starting point is 00:40:18 Yeah, and so so honestly, maybe you guys say hey It actually creates more peace for you to be home and it takes us an extra nine to 12 months to get out of debt. That feels way more peaceful than doing this and being miserable for a year, but yet we get out of debt and then you get to come home, but yet then she goes to kindergarten and life looks different there too.

Starting point is 00:40:37 So I don't, I mean, getting out of debt frees up a lot. And so talking to your husband, and usually sometimes the men carry a lot of the stress too when it comes to the money. So you guys just have a really honest conversation and paint a couple of pictures too. Like I always hate the idea of we only have one option, you know?

Starting point is 00:40:58 Like when we talk to people buying a home, like it's the only home, it's the only home that has everything we want. I'm like, no, no, you limit yourself. So paint four different options, Mackenzie. Let Ken's option be option A, and hey, let's see what's over here. Option B, you just stay home.

Starting point is 00:41:11 Sell the cars. Yes, stay home and sell the cars. If you stay home, the cars gotta go, Mackenzie. I would nix those. Option C, is there a position that's part-time and she could be in daycare Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and you work Tuesday, Thursday to get out of debt six months earlier.

Starting point is 00:41:27 I don't know, like start doing some math, painting some pictures and what from a gut check for you guys creates a family and an environment that you guys can hold and feel good about, right? So that's the way I'd answer that, especially with moms staying home with kids and stuff. Now, we talked to some people, Mackenzie, and she makes 40, he makes 40, and they can't even pay the bills without a dual income.

Starting point is 00:41:52 And so those people, they don't have an option. They have to go to work to keep their lights on. And so if you guys have the ability for you to go home, everything can still be paid. And then on top of that, maybe getting a little extra to get out of debt faster. Yeah you said something, McKenzie one last thing, Rachel just said something that triggered something to me I think you're absolutely right. You were kind of wishy-washy on the question of if you go

Starting point is 00:42:17 home is it gonna be tight? You said I've run the numbers kind of. Here's my point you and your husband both need to run those numbers and both of you be able to look at each other and go, okay, if we do this, we know we're only going to have $200 in margin, or whatever the number is. And then if we sell the cars, it could be 1,000. Get real clear on that, because that could create life avoiding being on the internet. And now everything I do in my life, my professional life, my personal life, everything's on the

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Starting point is 00:43:47 And it gives me one last thing to worry about, one last thing to be anxious about, and it lets me, whew, be a dad that sleeps at night. Yes, and all you gotta do is go to xander.com or call 800-356-4282 to protect your family with the most complete ID theft protection available. That's xander.com. This is the Ramsey Show where America comes to have a conversation about their money, about their profession, and about their relationships. The phone number for you to jump in on the conversation is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Alongside the fabulous Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman, and we are together for you.

Starting point is 00:44:49 We started off with Cynthia in Atlanta, Georgia. Cynthia, how can we help? Hey, how are you? Good. How are you today? Pretty good. I'm trying to think of where to start. Pretty much I am newly divorced.

Starting point is 00:45:06 I don't know if two years is newly. Since then, everything has gone to poop. I have had an eviction notice every single month. Oh no, Cynthia. Since my divorce, I'm currently under eviction and three days ago my car was repossessed. Oh no. Oh my gosh. Now, help me understand, how are you getting an eviction notice every month for 24 months?

Starting point is 00:45:38 Okay, so how it works is if you don't pay rent by the 24th, then they add on the next month. So say if I don't have it in June, say I don't get the money until June 24th, okay, well now I have to pay July. So it's like I keep getting caught behind by like basically one month. The 20th. Okay, gotcha. Okay. Is it because of how your paycheck's hitting? Well, I'm self-employed, but it's like while you're trying to save up for something, life

Starting point is 00:46:14 is still happening. The light bill is happening. The phone bill is happening. Insurance is happening. What do you do? What do you do for yourself? What do I do for a living? I have an online store selling

Starting point is 00:46:29 baked goods Sweetheart you're not paying yourself very much because you're not making very much. I'm guessing Well, I would make last year making like last year it was Last year it was 50, well let me just tell you, during my divorce, I'm trying to be as fast as possible, I was the bread winner. So 2021, I grossed $350,000. Selling online baked goods? Yes.

Starting point is 00:47:02 Wow. Okay, I'm a little surprised by that. And then after my divorce, it just kept going down 198. Why? 100. Part, well, I will say we had a very expensive wedding that I footed the bill for, but before I could financially recover from the wedding, we were being divorced. We were only married for nine months. No, no. Why did your income go down? I don't understand what your answer has to do with your business itself grossing $350,

Starting point is 00:47:39 and then- Well, business had slowed down, and then by me making everything and having to keep sure relocating it's just throwing off like my customer service okay and the shipping got you and so now here you are post divorce two years what are you projected to make or pay yourself this year off of this business? Well, I haven't really been, I've been mingling money. I know I'm not supposed to because I feel like I'm not bringing in enough to separate it. What do you mean by mingling money?

Starting point is 00:48:17 With the business and your personal? Because I, yeah, yeah. Well forget that for a moment. We're trying to help you out and I got to get to a baseline of what do you think your income is going to be? Because what I'm diving into here is do you need to wrap this business up and go work for somebody else because you are drowning and there's not enough income. I'm sure there's some debt and we're going to get into that, but I'm just trying to establish

Starting point is 00:48:40 a baseline. And by income, Cynthia, like being able to support yourself to pay rent. Do you know what I mean? I mean, like basic income. This is an extra margin to throw at debt. This is like paying your car payment, which didn't happen and it got repossessed. Paying your rent, keeping the lights on, like basics.

Starting point is 00:48:57 How much does it take for your household to run per month, Cynthia, do you know? Without all the extra stuff, but for real, how much is rent, lights, utilities? What's the baseline? I'll say about $3,200. $3,200, okay. To keep everything afloat. That's rent, lights on, gas in the car. Or what are you doing for a car? Do they take it? Yeah. Yeah. What's your plan for that? I'm gonna try to get it back. Okay. But I feel like it's either pay back rent

Starting point is 00:49:34 or pay for the car. I don't know how to do both. Well, let me tell you what helps this situation. Working and getting paid. And that's what I'm going to come back to. What are you paying yourself right now per month off of this business that you run? Like I said, I'm not separating it, so I'm just spending. I'm not really saying, okay, this is for the business, this is for me.

Starting point is 00:50:00 Okay, but do you understand? Because I feel like I'm not making enough to... How much are you making Cynthia, per month? How much is the business bringing in? That's what I'm trying to get at. Probably about $6,000. $6,000 a month. Okay.

Starting point is 00:50:15 Okay. That's not enough. It's not enough. So, you're in a real situation right now where you've got a skill and you've got some experience. And I don't want to spend any more time, I don't want to belabor it, I don't want you to feel bad about it as to why the business has dropped from a high water mark of 350,000, which is a pretty good number for a solopreneur certainly selling on baked goods. Sure, to 60.

Starting point is 00:50:39 We don't have time to break down why it's fallen, but we are in a situation where we cannot pay rent and we cannot afford our car. It's been repoed and you need to go work for somebody today, tomorrow. Like you've got to get some income, number one, and then I want to give it back to Rachel. You also got to get a hold of your finances. And this is like going to give you whiplash because it's, because we're basically saying you got to do something different than what you're doing right now. So I don't know if you're still doing baked goods and at night you're working somewhere else or if you close everything down and you say, do you have like equipment that you could sell from the bakery

Starting point is 00:51:14 that you could get some cash flow in? No. What does that mean? No. I'm shocked at that answer. Where did all the equipment go when you were making 350? I'm sure you had some kind of... No, home based. You're just like using your stove and your oven and all that? Yes.

Starting point is 00:51:35 Okay, I would make that my part-time thing, and I'd go find something full-time. Because you can still sell, you still have your website, all of that, and you're not fulfilling a ton of orders from what it sounds like. And so I would go be doing something else here today. Because this is crunch time, Cynthia. This really is one of these things like you need to go to Target tomorrow and say, hey, can I do an hourly job? Like I don't care what it is. That's right.

Starting point is 00:51:57 But to find something to be bringing this money in, because we have to get that part of this going. There's not much expenses to cut from 3,200, right? It's not, but anything else that you have, keep that 6,000 coming in from the business if you can. And then on top of that, you have to go be doing something else. How much did you owe on the car? How many back payments? About 3,000. Well, with three payments fees and all that where we post it. Yeah, with like towing fees.

Starting point is 00:52:29 Yeah. Do you have anything you can sell to get two grand to take it down to them and say, hey, can I just shore this up? Um, no. No. Okay. No, not, no. Okay, well, the number one, A1 priority is keep a roof over your head, keep food coming in, and you can use that from the bakery

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Starting point is 00:54:32 That's netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Charlene in Salt Lake City is where we're going. Charlene, how can we help today? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I am wondering how do I help my husband work currently in baby step number two were enrolled in Ramsey Plus taking Financial Peace University and How do I help get my husband to that gazelle level of intensity to tackle our debt? Threatened to sending to the counselor. I'm kidding. No, don't do that. That's terrible. Okay, give me like a range. Yeah, of like, you're here and this is what you're doing versus what he's doing. What are you wanting more of?

Starting point is 00:55:33 Yeah, so we have about $100,000 in debt outside of our home loan. And we grossed about 135,000. home loan. Um, and we grossed about 135,000. Um, I have opened up like a little hobby side business to bring in some extra money on top of my full-time job. Um, we also have 10 month old twins. So, so that's kind of, um, that was a new expense that really made finances tight.

Starting point is 00:56:05 And there's also a property back taxes because we built a home, so the tax evaluation wasn't correct. And then the county made an error for all property taxes and that raised our total monthly mortgage payment by like $600 a month. So between daycare and- Oh, that's fun. Yeah. I remember that come election day. Just me. simply mortgage payment by like $600 a month. So between daycare and- Oh, that's fun. Yes. I remember that come election day.

Starting point is 00:56:26 Just me. So let me ask you this. If you could wave a wand and say, I wish he would do this or this. What is that? I wish that he would look for promotional opportunities. Okay. Because that would obviously bring more money. Anything else? Yeah. Um, I don't, he also, um, you know, when, because I've been selling items, um, and, you know, I mentioned selling like our miter saw and he, you know, had a little bit

Starting point is 00:57:08 of a hard time with that. And we also have, we have a truck that his mom totaled in February. But my husband made the decision to salvage it. And that is our third vehicle. And so, and he's not willing to give that up. And so it's just really hard when I'm like- Okay, I got it. Yeah, Rachel, you're-

Starting point is 00:57:34 I want- Yeah, the reason I asked that question is because you said, how can I help him be more gazelle intense? And I think you've got to, you, and I'm glad you shared it with us, you've got to identify where those specific pain points are. And Rachel, I'm curious as to what you're gonna say about how to communicate it, but I think that,

Starting point is 00:57:50 well, I have one other quick question. I'm gonna hand it to Rachel. I do have another question. Were you the one that brought the whole Ramsay thing to him? Or did you guys come at it together? For sure. Oh yeah, I can hear it in your voice. She did, right?

Starting point is 00:58:02 I sure did. Now, I'm not making excuses for Hubs, but I am pointing out that he doesn't have total buy-in yet. And so you're going to have to help him with the buy-in. I think Rachel's probably going to be better at me and giving advice on that. But as a dude, I will tell you, tools, salvaging the junk, I mean, that's such a dude thing. And he's incapable of thinking about those, the way you think about them. But if you can get him on board with what you're doing

Starting point is 00:58:41 and why, and he begins to come along, then those things. So in other words, it's a transaction that he's not interested in right now. And you got to get it beyond transaction is what I'm getting at. He's just not there yet. Yeah, no. I mean, yeah, I think that's the biggest obvious problem is that you guys don't care about the same thing, right? If you both cared about getting out of debt, you would both put in effort. And maybe even at that point, there's

Starting point is 00:59:04 still always the nerd and the free spirit. There's always gonna be the one that's always gonna be a little bit more intense that will like literally eat peanut butter for a year. You know, and the other one's like, no, we need a little bit of a lot. He's not fighting you on this stuff, is he? Well, my worry is that you sold something

Starting point is 00:59:17 that you guys didn't talk about, is what it sounded like, right? Are you like going through and like putting stuff for sale and you're like, sorry, babe, this is leaving and this is leaving. Her stuff, I think. No, she said a saw. No, no. She said she wanted to sell the miter saw. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought she did. No, he's like, leave my stuff alone. I hear you. I hear you.

Starting point is 00:59:40 Leave my junk car. Yeah, I've been selling things that he doesn't necessarily care about, like some of our baby clothes. Gotcha. I gotcha. OK. But is he on board with the concept of the baby steps, though? I think he wants to be.

Starting point is 00:59:56 He's always been a happy-go-lucky guy and then the internal optimist. So it just. So what you have to communicate to him, and it's not like, I want you to sell this or do that. It's here's where I'm coming from. And here's what I'm feeling and what I'm thinking. It's not, you're not doing this and you're not doing that.

Starting point is 01:00:17 Like what's going on in you? I mean, I can imagine what's going on you is, there's a level of fear. Or I'll just say how I would probably feel if I were in your shoes. I have two 10 month old twins, which is just, God bless you girl. I mean, unbelievable.

Starting point is 01:00:31 I'm working a full-time job. I'm exhausted. I'm kind of scared. And the fact my husband doesn't share in the fear with me at all scares me even more. And that makes me not feel cared for. I don't feel seen. The hard work I am putting in, he's not acknowledging. Like it starts to just break down. Is that right? Would you

Starting point is 01:00:49 agree? Yeah, I mean, with the business, I kind of, so my twins are IVF twins and so that was expensive. We paid for it all out of savings. But we took a break for it and that's when I opened up my side hobby business, right? And he just has a hard time, he's had a hard time buying into that but a couple weeks ago I had like a pop-up market event that I pulled in $1400 in sales over a weekend. And so he's starting to buy in a little bit more, but yeah, it's, he doesn't recognize the fact. So I think he's not gonna be doing the actions

Starting point is 01:01:29 until he and you guys agree from the starting place. I agree. That this is what we're wanting to do as a couple. And so you'll always be frustrated until you guys can have a shared goal that this is what you guys wanna do as a couple. And that's the hardest thing. So, and the way to tell him and communicate that is coming from you, of what you guys want to do as a couple. And that's the hardest thing. And the way to tell him and communicate that

Starting point is 01:01:45 is coming from you, of what you're feeling, what you're thinking, why you're wanting to do this, all of that. And my hope is always, if a husband looks across the table at his wife, who's scared, who's longing for something, that's like, you know what I mean? Oh, you're nailing it. Let me ask you a quick question.

Starting point is 01:02:01 Charlene, he's a good husband, isn't he? He's wonderful. I had that sense. I had that sense. Let me ask you a quick question. Charlene, he's a good husband, isn't he? He's wonderful. He's a wonderful father. I had that sense. I had that sense. Let me ask you this. I'm going to flip this on you. If you went to him today and said, hey, babe, I'm scared about something with my health.

Starting point is 01:02:15 I've been experiencing this. I'm feeling this. Something health related and you shared with him that you felt like you needed to go get some medical treatment for it. How would he react to something like that? Give me an answer. and you shared with him that you felt like you needed to go get some medical treatment for it. How would he react to something like that? Give me, give me an answer. He wouldn't, he would go out all the stocks to get me there.

Starting point is 01:02:34 Okay. And here's why I asked the question. That's what Rachel has just said. What Rachel said is absolutely right. He doesn't, if you went to him with a health thing, he would be like, go get the test. We do whatever it takes. He has to see that what you're feeling about debt

Starting point is 01:02:51 and this whole debt snowball, Ramsey plan, all this stuff, this isn't some cockamamie idea that you came up with that you saw on Instagram. This is a problem for you. And if he hears it that way and sees it, and I think you could even go so far saying, hey, I haven't done a good job of actually telling you why all of this is such a big deal to me.

Starting point is 01:03:13 And I need to really tell you how I feel the way Rachel laid it out. And I think if he did that, I think it's got a great chance knowing what we know about him and what you've said about him as a husband and how he'd react to the physical. I think it's on you to cast a little bit more vision, a little bit more real feelings. I think you'll get there. And by the way, keep selling your own stuff. Model the way. And at some point, he goes, well, I probably could get rid of that car. And in an ideal situation too, when you guys get through all of like the heart stuff, if

Starting point is 01:03:48 you can get him and you guys sit down and have numbers on the table of like, okay, here's this debt, this debt, this debt, this debt, here's what we make. We could be out in 18 months or like, or if we sold this, we could be out in 16 months, like start painting some scenarios for him because this whole idea, because especially if you're a free spirit, chill person, Mr. Optimism, the idea of like sacrificing lives, it's like, he's like, the glass is always full. We'll be fine. You know, and so to show them that it's not forever, because you may be painting this picture of like, oh my gosh, this is going to be, you know, our whole life and it's not. It's gonna be a short amount of time. But get some numbers and some facts down so you both can see them.

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Starting point is 01:05:54 Did one yesterday and then I'm on tomorrow. Okay. This is great because I'm telling people about this. It's absolutely free. Yep. Describe it from your point of view. Yeah, we're on together for about, I don't know, 45 minutes to an hour. And we walk through how to show people how you can get margin. Almost, I think it's like over $9,000 people are finding in the first 30 days.

Starting point is 01:06:11 It's crazy. But it's all through looking at, okay, how do you do a high level budget, basically, when you connect your bank through every dollar and you get those transactions and you start seeing your actual spending habits. And there's so much coaching now inside of EveryDollar from the digital coaching and on. Like it's so great. It is so great.

Starting point is 01:06:29 So helpful for people, cause people have a lot of questions. So we kind of just walk through that. And then we do a live Q and A too. But there's so many resources now that the EveryDollar team is putting out. And it's fantastic. But it's just a great training.

Starting point is 01:06:41 If you're like, hey, I really do want to get, I want to break that paycheck to paycheck cycle. I want want some margin we really walk you through and show you how so it's fun. Every dollar dot com slash webinar every dollar dot com slash webinar can't be any easier and it's free that I mentioned it's free I've seen you people at the baseball games and football games they throw a free t-shirt in the crowd and I go crazy crazy. And perfectly normal, well-adjusted adults start acting like children over a free t-shirt. And some will like wrestle the person in front of the person. Oh, it's like a WWE Monday Night Raw match just to get a free t-shirt that doesn't even

Starting point is 01:07:19 fit. So why wouldn't you clamor for a free every dollar webinar? There's my guilt trip, that's all I'm going to say. Kelsey is up in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Kelsey, how can we help? Hi. Okay, so a bit of a weird situation. I bought my own house with my two kids and I've been living there for roughly about seven

Starting point is 01:07:47 years and I met my boyfriend. He lives across the street in his own house and now that we've been together roughly seven years we kind of want to amalgamate and I just don't know what is more responsible. Do I keep my house as like a rental because the kind of type of house we need is going to be a decent amount because I need four bedrooms and a garage. So I don't know what the best solution is. Like we don't know should we sell both houses and just get the one would that be irresponsible letting go one of the houses we're just not sure okay hold on all right so okay all right so I think it's fascinating you guys have

Starting point is 01:08:37 been together for seven years and you chose the word amalgamate which I had to Google and I'm a real word nerd, am I not, Rachel? There it is on the screen. The word is amalgamate. I couldn't spell that if my life depended on it. And again, I'm a reader. It just means you're living together, right? Is that what it is? No. It means to combine or unite to form an organization or structure. And I'm laughing out loud, you know, inside, because I don't want to interrupt you. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:09:08 You're not going to amalgamate. You guys need to get- I guess that's not the word. It's not the word. It's called matrimony. Does he want to move in together? No. She doesn't want to get married.

Starting point is 01:09:18 They're not getting married. I know she doesn't. Living together. But what I'm saying is you ought to consider matrimony at this point. For seven years we've been together. Here's why. You do not, and Rachel can explain here why we do not like the idea of the house thing getting mixed together.

Starting point is 01:09:36 It needs to be very separate. As long as you guys are amalgamating, okay, and not being married, then those houses and money and everything need to stay separate. I'm not kidding you James will remember this I feel like over the last couple weeks George And I got multiple calls of couples who decided to move in together and mix their finances and then shockingly The amalgamation stopped and it was a mess And then, rockingly, the amalgamation stopped, and it was a mess. So what do you do if the other person may not want to get married, but they do want to move in together?

Starting point is 01:10:14 Why do you want to be with them, Kelsey? Great question. Because I really love him. He's a really great person. But he doesn't want to commit to you. He doesn't love you as much as you love him. I just think that he's a little worried, maybe from past relationships or something. Kelsey, how old are your kids?

Starting point is 01:10:33 My kids are nine and 11. Okay, okay. Those are the ages of mine. Yeah, and so I raised them by myself in my house. You did a great job, yeah, yeah, for sure. As a single mom, I can't imagine. He lives across the street, right? He lives across the street.

Starting point is 01:10:46 What are we doing? Directly across the street. What are we, okay, I'm going to be, can I play older brother for 30 seconds? They're playing house without him having to commit. 100%. Can I be your older brother for 30 seconds? Okay. Okay, great.

Starting point is 01:10:58 Thank you. You gave me permission to be older brother. Okay. Why in the world would you consider moving in with a guy who doesn't want to marry you after seven years when he lives across the freaking street when you guys want to amalgamate. It's really quick to walk back and forth. I don't understand dead serious if you were my sister. I'd be like what

Starting point is 01:11:21 are you thinking? Here's a guy that said seven years to figure out if he feels safe with you emotionally. So I don't buy his excuse, which by the way, you've swallowed whole because you're amazing and you love this guy, but his excuse of I've been burned in the past. He said seven years to kick the tires and you're no tire, but you get the analogy. What are we doing here? He lives across the street. Why would you move? Okay.

Starting point is 01:11:46 Answer that. It's getting difficult on my end because I'm having a hard time now with everything going on in the world that like inflation is crazy. And I'm just struggling while he's kind of doing pretty well over here. Oh, wait a second. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, this is great. So you wanna combine finances, but he doesn't want to marry you.

Starting point is 01:12:12 I just need some help. Oh, I know, but guess what? He doesn't wanna marry you. You want his help, but he doesn't wanna help. This is weird, this is messed up. Rachel, please come in with a female perspective. I've done the older brother thing. Yeah. I mean, how do you feel about this on her behalf? No, it's everything you're saying. I mean, my number one is always, and I think I've

Starting point is 01:12:33 gotten, I'll say this, I think I've gotten even more conservative on my stance of this. I first of all like the fact that you're getting more conservative. No, I'm just saying in the sense of in a relationship, I just think marriage for the kids sake for your sake, like there is, there is a, there is something that happens to the bond of a person when you commit and say, I'm going to commit my life to you. And I think it's good for you. I think it's good for the world. Like I think that it is a good thing, Kelsey.

Starting point is 01:13:00 And for you longterm, you will always, always be in the balance of he could walk out Kelsey like that. And you have built your life around a man and his money at this point. And he could take that in a second and you have no legal obligation. You have nothing. Preach. I'm going to take it off for you. And then you are way more on a bad end. Yeah, so I get it. Now listen, I guess that's what it is. No, no, you're great.

Starting point is 01:13:27 I totally get it now. So there's no protection for you, Kelsey. And there is something about that commitment of marriage, not only from an emotional and spiritual side, but also this financial side that we're talking about. And you're setting yourself up for a lot of danger, not only relationally, but financially. And you can't.

Starting point is 01:13:43 Yeah, if he's willing to marry you, if he's willing to marry you, then we go through marry you then we go through with all this you sell your house You guys figure out which house you want to live in Excel his I don't care but to become one That's a great plan. You guys have been together for seven years. I don't know what his problem is, but it's a problem He needs to commit And if not, by the way, you've done a great job to this point as a single mom And as I said, yes And if he did and if you still love him and you get off this call, you've done a great job to this point as a single mama. And as a, yes. And if you still love him and you get off this call, you're like, the Ken

Starting point is 01:14:08 and Rachel are insane. No, no, no. I'm right. All I'm asking you, Kelsey, is just don't commingle the finances. Don't do it. Do not build your life on someone else's finances that you're not married to. Please don't. For your kids, for everything. I'm just like, it's just, that is not, it's just not a smart decision. It is not a smart decision. It is not a smart decision. And I freaking hate that he, what?

Starting point is 01:14:28 A little immature, can I say it? Yes! For seven years, you're dating a woman with two kids. He's a deadbeat, I'll tell ya. He's a deadbeat boyfriend, probably a nice guy. But as a boyfriend, it's like, what are we waiting on? Seven years? Commit, man. We got a bunch of men in this society, by the way.

Starting point is 01:14:43 This is a societal problem. We got a bunch of men that this society, by the way. This is a societal problem. We got a bunch of men that just won't commit. Well, I'll be honest, because they can live like they're married. They get what they want. Because women don't hold... I mean, honestly, it's just like it's a... She needs to lay out an ultimatum. I think so too, but...

Starting point is 01:14:56 There's an old phrase, why buy the cow when you get the milk for free. This is the thing. This is not difficult. Commit, or I'm out. All right, it's time for our question of the day here on The Ramsey Show brought to you by Yreify. If you're ready to stop drowning in private student loan debt, Yreify throws you a rope. You can talk to Yreify to see if refinancing your defaulted loans with a low fixed rate is an option for you,

Starting point is 01:16:06 go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Sarah in Washington. I have two adult children living at home. My daughter's 21 and I've supported her while she cashflowed college full time. My 18 year old son passed on

Starting point is 01:16:26 college and has a great trades job. I'm about to have a conversation with them giving them six months notice that I'll start charging them a small amount of rent, just a couple hundred dollars each for the principle of not living here for free forever. How would you justify the rent to them in this conversation? I've never planned on making them pay rent, but after listening to your show, I have changed my mind. But I'm struggling to find the right words for this conversation. Oh man. Well, I'm not the guy you want to ask that question to because for the 21 year old, it's

Starting point is 01:16:58 like you're out. I know, that's what I was going to say. God bless you. I'd love for you to come by all the time. I'm going to keep stock in the fridge. You visiting is great, you living here is not. Yep. But now I don't know if that's too hardcore.

Starting point is 01:17:11 And we'll see where it comes to when my, but I mean, my son, both my boys know, like this is not, you're not living here forever. Yep, no, I know. So yeah, the adult children coming back and living at home for like a span of time and for a reason, I understand, right? Like I'm living at home while I'm going to college. A season.

Starting point is 01:17:30 That makes sense. Or, you know, you graduate college and you come home and they move in with you, Ken, for three months while they find an apartment and they get a job or all this. Like, right, like there's stints of it. That's fine. But this ongoing, never-ending business, I'm not a fan of. And that's what it will become, by the way, when you are the cheapest landlord in the history of landlords. And that's what this is. That's right. What kid's going to want to move on from a couple hundred

Starting point is 01:17:53 bucks a month in rent? Totally, I know. I know. Yay, yay, yay. So it's, yeah, I mean, I would have the conversation in six months. I mean, if the son has a great job, even though he's 18, you get to learn to be an adult.

Starting point is 01:18:06 I mean, I don't know, that's what I would do. Yeah, very nice. Of course, it's gonna be very interesting. You never know where, I've got a college freshman, he've just finished, so he'll be starting his sophomore year and it's like, it's gonna be very interesting to see how all of this shakes out. For him, you mean? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:18:22 Yeah, like after college? I mean, you got three kids, I got three kids. Yeah, like what is their, like am I gonna have to have the conversation? Oh, right, totally. Hey, you know, or is it like, I was the kid that, I was gone. Yeah, didn't wanna go back.

Starting point is 01:18:35 No! Yeah, mm-hmm. You know? Yes, yes. We didn't have cell phones, this is gonna date me, and this is gonna shock you. When I was in college, we didn't have cell phones. Yeah?

Starting point is 01:18:44 Didn't exist. I believe it. Yeah, thank you. We had a dorm phone. Yeah. And so I remember getting a knock on my door one night and I opened the door. Do you like that sound effect? I was going to say you love your sound effects. I thought that was pretty good. And my buddy opens the, I opened the door and my buddy's there. We went to the same high school, but he lived down the hall and he said, Hey, my mom just called me or I just talked to my mom and she said that your mom called her and wanted me to tell you you need to call home. I was that kid. I mean, there was no ugliness or anything. I just once I went to college, I was like, done, gone. Yeah. And

Starting point is 01:19:19 not every kid's that way. Sure, sure. You know, but I was like, hello world. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So we'll see how it plays out. Natalie's up in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Natalie, sure. You know, but I was like, hello world. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So we'll see how it plays out. Natalie's up in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Natalie, how can we help? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure, sure, sure. What's up? So I, my husband and I are on Baby Steps 2. We've been doing really well. We've paid off 7,000 this year. Nice. He just recently got a new job that is, he's making twice as much, but it came with some expenses that we knew of, but it's been more expensive than we were planning. So he travels and he works on wind turbines. So as he travels, we have to pay for his hotel and his law or his lodging and his food.

Starting point is 01:20:09 And it's turning out to be a thousand or more per week. And he's getting, he gets an amount like he gets 175 a day, which is like a 850 a week. But it's, it's more than it's costing more than what he's getting to pay for it. And it's getting like, I'm putting, you're not going to like this, but we're putting it on the hotel with stuff has been on a credit card because we just didn't have, we didn't have the money to pay for the hotels to start

Starting point is 01:20:38 with. And so I've been putting like a thousand dollars on the credit card every month and it's just growing. It hasn't like, it'll go down and then it's right back up to either the same thing it was before or a little bit more and I'm just lost. What kind of hotels he's staying at? Well, it kind of depends. So right now he's actually in Abilene, Texas and he did find a cheaper one. He's got a super eight right now. And that was super cheap. This is like the cheapest one he's been at. And it's actually below 175. And then before he was in Copal, Texas, and they were like right at that 175 at night.

Starting point is 01:21:20 Well, you're not going to like this. But the first thing that pops in my mind, Rachel, is I go back to my days working in Virginia politics. I was young, single, 21, driving all over the state, and I lived out of hotels. And I had a budget that the campaign gave me, and I stayed in some stuff that I wouldn't even let Stacey look at. But I was a dude, I'm 21, and it was like I had the budget. And I know that's an extreme situation. However, you gave me one locale and the Super 8 is actually below budget.

Starting point is 01:21:51 Then you gave me another locale and you said it was right at the budget. But in this case, he's got what he's got. And so he's going to have to, how shall I say this, if he's going to stay in this job, he's going to have to suck it up and and he's gonna have to play within the rules, and I think right now it's just not been convenient, and you guys are paying for it. In other words, you said it was a locale named Coburn or something, I didn't make it up.

Starting point is 01:22:15 Go somewhere else, go 20 minutes away, where there's a Motel 6 where the light's not even on, but he's crashing, he's working. Like, it is what it is. And it doesn't make sense, because you guys at this rate, it's like $52,000 a year in expenses. How much is he making? So he brings in like about $6,800 a month. I mean, y'all aren't making a ton then.

Starting point is 01:22:43 After these expenses, it's like 20 grand that he's making. This makes no sense. He gets how much a month in expenses? Eight something? So it's about half of his paycheck. So if he makes 6,800, 3,400 of that is the per diem that's supposed to go towards his hotels and he's spending more than that. And I do know that it's also, it's not just the hotels because of course he's got to eat. And so part of that is also like he'll eat out like he doesn't have like he's in a hotel room and so it's not like he doesn't grab, sometimes he'll grab like microwavable stuff

Starting point is 01:23:20 that's super cheap and then sometimes he'll go to Chick-fil-A and spend $20 and it's just like there's no Here's my point. Here's the this is the job he has and this is the compensation you knew this going in No surprises and now he's got to manage it. So you have two options option a is When he goes to these little towns, he doesn't go to Chick-fil-A and pay 20 bucks He goes to the local grocery store, and if he's in this little place, he gets enough food for three days. And it's PB&J and tuna fish sandwich, turkey sandwiches. I mean, this can be done. And so it's not a function of can it be done? I hope you weren't calling to go, how can it be done? Because it can be done. Or you change jobs.

Starting point is 01:24:06 Those are your options. But Rachel's right. This job doesn't make sense in its current form. So either he goes, you know what, this is my job, and when I'm on the road, life sucks. Makes me really happy to get home. But my wife and I are gonna agree to a budget. Yeah, how many nights away is he?

Starting point is 01:24:23 A week? So he's six weeks on and a week off. He's gone for six weeks? Yeah, so me and our two-year-old, we're at home. How is that? Is that sustainable for you guys now? Just from a lifestyle perspective? Six weeks away? Currently it's weird because he's at like a tooling department. He's not actually at a wind turbine.

Starting point is 01:24:48 So it's weird timing. But once he goes on an actual job, we'll know like he'll be there for three weeks. So me and my two year old, I work from home. So when he gets set somewhere for like three weeks, I will go and be with him. Oh, then that's more expenses of you guys getting out more and everything. Well, and, but we've already done this once. And like, I made all the food in the hotel room.

Starting point is 01:25:11 Like we brought a griddle and we brought the cross-bord and it worked out great. Well, if that works, great. But again, A or B. Hey teachers, your students are stepping into the real world and starting to deal with the money challenges that all grownups face. From making that first paycheck stretch to figuring out how to afford college or trade school, they need real life knowledge and know how right now. And with foundations and and Personal Finance,

Starting point is 01:25:45 your students can learn how to budget, how to save, how to avoid debt, like real-world money skills that last a lifetime. So learn more by going to ramsysolutions.com slash foundations. That's ramsysolutions.com slash foundations. This is the Ramsey Show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their profession and their relationships. So glad you joined us.

Starting point is 01:26:21 The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here to coach you. Joe is up in Columbia, South Carolina. Joe, how can we help today? Hey, thanks for taking my call. You bet. About 20 years ago, I read Dave's Total Money Makeover and we got out of debt. Then we started investing in the stock market and timberland here in South Carolina.

Starting point is 01:26:54 And things went really well and we ended up in pretty good shape. My daughter and her husband got married about that same time. We gave them $20,000 for a down payment on their first home. And then we bought 120 acres and we built a house here. And they decided they wanted to join us. And so we gave them two acres of land. Then about two years later, we gave them another $20,000 to help pay down their mortgage. Then over the years, they had 11 children.

Starting point is 01:27:36 11? 11. So they had an old beat up van and we wanted to be able to take trips so about three years ago I think we bought them a brand new Transit 14 passenger van. Well I'll get to the point. The oldest child, our grandson, is 19 and he just got married and his wife is 17 and a half. And our daughter and her husband wanted us to give them land to build a house on.

Starting point is 01:28:19 And we said, you know what, that's a little young. said, you know what, that's a little young. Owning a land is a big responsibility. Let's wait a couple years. Well, that didn't suit. They want to be in control of when and where they give the children land. Our rule of thumb was when we think they're old enough and responsible enough. Yeah. Cause you don't want, you don't want them to build a home. And then in four years when they're 24, they're like, Oh, we want to move out of state. And then you're stuck with this other house. Yeah. Well,

Starting point is 01:28:59 it's a, they're pretty upset. And they, even as we speak, they're moving. Your daughter, your daughter. Yeah, they're moving. Your daughter? Yeah. The whole family. So. Where are they moving to? We're going to have new neighbors that we don't know right in the middle of our property and they're, they're moving away. They're not going far, only 11 miles, but they are moving and they won't be in control.

Starting point is 01:29:27 And we created this monster, you know, by giving and giving and giving. No, I don't think you want to do it. No, Joe, I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true. I think they could have had that exact same situation and said, Mom and Dad, you guys have been insane to us. We don't expect anything and everything you've given us is beyond anything, and then they have their little chickens

Starting point is 01:29:49 and they deal with it. Like, the expectation end and the entitlement end, it's not because you were generous to them, it's because their character turns sour in the midst of it. Okay, so... I don't think that's your fault, genuinely. Unless they couldn't have handled it in the first place and y'all kept giving it to them because they had expectation.

Starting point is 01:30:07 But if they were, you know, kids that were very grateful in it and didn't have any expectation, all of this would have been a blessing. It would have been great and they would have honored you and honored your requests. So I don't know. Joe, that was a great setup. What's your question for us? I'm curious. Well, you know, we're thinking we gave too much.

Starting point is 01:30:30 We're thinking, I heard what Rachel just said, but we're thinking we gave too much, and I'm 74. And we're really wondering what to do with inheritance. How much are we talking about? Well, we live off of the interest on our investments, but the principles, which should stay there is around $4 million. Okay. Let me ask you this really quick, because we've got a limited amount of time, and I want to help you Is your wife on board is she feeling the same thing that you're feeling are you two in alignment? Oh, yeah

Starting point is 01:31:17 Absolutely great news. Okay, so I appreciate properties in both of our names So great, you know, okay The reason I asked that is I wanted to make sure that you weren't dealing with some of that because what you've got is your Daughter is playing a little bit of poker with you. I think it's bad poker, but I think it's poker. And I think you're irritated by the fact that they're pulling up stakes and now the land that you gave them, someone else is going to live there. And I get how that rankles you. But I do agree with you that this particular decision has gone too far.

Starting point is 01:31:47 I don't think we need to spend any more time arguing or siding with you as to whether or not it was your fault or not. I think we've got to focus on where we are right now. And so what I would tell you is I was listening to you tell a story and I was just trying not to laugh out loud because the fact that your daughter thinks that she can tell you anything to do with your property is hilarious to me, and I think you've got to hold your position here. And in this situation, if they want to move, they move. I think she's playing a little bit of poker, and I think the best thing you can do is let them go, even if it's

Starting point is 01:32:19 11 miles away. Oh yeah, they're already going. Okay, good. So here's the deal. As far as what you want to do with your retirement and your inheritance, you and your wife need to sit down, and I appreciate you calling us. That's not our call. My only answer, and I'll give it to Rachel in a second, my only answer would be you all do with that money what you feel you should do with that money. It should not be about guilt and the fact that she's your only daughter, or only child, sounds like, and we gotta do this. If you feel like it's gonna be abused and misused,

Starting point is 01:32:51 you get to decide what to do with that, but you're gonna have to live with that. And you gotta have to understand that once you're gone, that they're gonna have to live with your decision. So you and your wife need to get on the same page together and let's not let outside forces dictate too much. Do what you think is right. Rachel? I'm curious, Joe, do you guys have any level of relationship with her now? Or was it? Well, it's not just her. The husband is very active in the decision making. Of course. And we're still on speaking terms and as a matter of fact, we're going to council and

Starting point is 01:33:27 try to work this out. Great. That's good. So good. I'm so glad. You know, I just... Well, you feel like you gave... Sometimes when people know they got a big...

Starting point is 01:33:37 Yeah. I mean, yeah. When they got a big inheritance coming, they don't... I don't want the prospect of the money to hurt them any more than what we've already seen. Are they responsible financially, just with their daily finances? Yes. Okay.

Starting point is 01:33:56 Well, to Rachel's point, Rachel makes a good point. Rachel's right. You didn't spoil her to the point that they're just a train wreck with their finances. It seems like it's just your generosity has become something they're very comfortable with and so now they're acting out, sounds like. I don't think you and mom have done a bad job at all and I don't think you need to be worried about them squandering it, but I think you could get creative with how you do it. Yeah, and the fact that money's created a tension point too, is not, that's not great. So how do we remove that element

Starting point is 01:34:27 and heal the relationship to go forward? And maybe it's a thing that like, we're not gonna mingle money as much anymore, right? And put the money there. So I'm so sorry, Joe. I hate that your generosity feels taken advantage of in a sense from what you told us. So I'm so sorry. Music

Starting point is 01:35:01 You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramsysolutions.com slash insurance. All right, when you're tackling debt or building wealth, one of the things that we can do very easily is we forget about one important step in reaching those goals, and that's insurance. Having the right coverage as opposed to too little or too much can obviously impact how

Starting point is 01:36:02 long it takes you to get there. And so skimping on insurance might seem like a good idea when you're saving, but then life gets you and you're really, really regretting and you can fall back into net without that safety net of insurance. So think of the right insurance as a shield around your loved ones and your wallet. So how do you know if you have the right coverage? We've got a free coverage checkup. That's what it's called. It's a free online resource and it's going to create a personalized insurance action

Starting point is 01:36:28 plan that's unique to you in your specific situation. So if this is you and you need to make sure you haven't checked your insurance, do I have too much? Do I have too little? It takes about five minutes. ramsysolutions.com slash checkup. ramsysolutions.com slash checkup ramsey solutions dot com slash checkup and you can take that information and make some changes in your life Matthew is up in st. Louis Missouri Matthew how can we help hey so basically my question is how do I continue to support my family and I while also trying to get my real estate wholesaling business up and going? Well, I think it's the wrong question.

Starting point is 01:37:12 Okay. So, I think the question should be, how do I support my family? And let's answer that. And then when we get to a place where we've got a really clear answer on how to support my family, then the second question becomes, how can I now ease into a separate venture of real estate? And I'm not trying to be cute in any way, but I really do think that that's the mindset. And my guess is, is you'll understand that if we get a little information from you. So when you set it up that way, what is your current plan for making a living? Real estate wholesaling. And how much are you making? Well, we are closing on our first deal

Starting point is 01:38:10 on our first deal next Wednesday, it's going to be $4,250 that we received. And I mean, it was all just paper pushing, getting a property under contract and then selling my position in that contract. So you're wholesaling? There's more money into it. Yes, yes. Interesting. Okay. How much were you making prior to this and what were you doing in that job? So 4,001 check is a major jump for us. I've never made that much money off of one thing in my entire life.

Starting point is 01:38:43 Okay, well you didn't answer my question. How much did you make a year in your last job and what were you doing? I was a warehouse worker making minimum wage and I made like $13 an hour. Okay, that helps me. And so paint the picture for Rachel and I, what's the transition from warehouse worker to this wholesome? Did you quit your warehouse job? Yeah, yes, how long ago? The beginning of June beginning of June okay and give us an idea do you own a home? What's your mortgage?

Starting point is 01:39:20 Are you renting and what is your rent? We stay with family we just You know we pay for you know our portion of the lights and gas and stuff What do we mean family your parents her parents her parents? Apartment downstairs. Oh, there she is Sorry stairs. Oh, there she is. Sorry. Hi, I'm Heather. My parents have an apartment downstairs that we kind of rent out, but we pretty much are just paying our part of the utilities. All right.

Starting point is 01:39:53 And do we have kids? We have one son. And how old? Eight months. Okay. And Heather, do you work? I don't. Oh, we lost her. She said, I don't, is that right? Right. Okay. You're home with the baby. Okay. Yes. I do work with him on the business as much as I can. Okay. Having an ankle fell is hard. Yeah, do you guys have any debt?

Starting point is 01:40:24 We have a car payment, it's $356 a month. How much do you owe on the car total? Six. 6000? Okay. Okay. How long before the next deal? I understand you're going to make 4000 some dollars in a week or so. When is the next check coming?

Starting point is 01:40:46 thousand some dollars in a week or so, when is the next check coming? So I go and look at a property tomorrow. Currently, I'm hitting the streets every single day, putting sticky notes out on the doors, calling leads. I've got a couple of promising leads that I've got to follow up on. We also know their houses are under contract that are waiting for buyers. Correct. So it's just a matter of finding a buyer and then closing on the deal. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:41:16 Yeah. My only fear with this whole, the wholesale process, it can work if you have a big pipeline, but starting it is tough. And so I just don't, I get nervous that when there's not a pipeline, you're gonna either get desperate in a situation and make a bad call on one of the properties or something without having something else supporting you guys, at least having some money come in.

Starting point is 01:41:41 The good thing is your expenses month to month do not sound like a lot. I mean, the fact that you guys don't have rent to pay. But it does make me a little nervous that you guys made this big jump. But yet you're in a position, thankfully, that from a lifestyle perspective, you have a soft landing, if you will.

Starting point is 01:42:01 Here's what I would have preferred. I would have preferred that you saved up before you left would have preferred. I would have preferred that you saved up before you left the warehouse job. I would have preferred that you saved up minimum six months of your income and put it in the bank. I would have really liked 12 months before you go all in on a real estate thing. I've had people call in and ask this question

Starting point is 01:42:20 before they wanna be a real estate professional and that to go to win as a real estate agent, you've got to be all in. Yeah, I'm curious, Matthew, what caused you to do the wholesale route? Currently, we're both in college. We're going for BSBAs. I'm going for a major in entrepreneurship and corporate innovation. To do what? How old are you guys? 28. Okay. I'd stop college right now.

Starting point is 01:42:53 Let me tell you why. You need to be taking all those hours that you're spending on college. And I'm talking to you, Matthew, and you need to be working in the warehouse or even a better job making $20 an hour. I don't care what you're doing, but for this season, like Rachel says, until you get that pipeline built up, I would press pause on college. That particular degree, that's not going to do much for you to be completely honest. I'm not poo-pooing it.

Starting point is 01:43:19 I'm just saying that can press pause and we can go back to that. You got too many balls up in the air right now. You're living with family. You got a little kid. You're trying a whole new business. It's all on you. It's door to door, hustle, hustle, hustle. You have never made any money to speak of. And I just think there's too much going on. So I would, if I were you, and I had a wife and child, I'd want to get them out of my in-laws house. I'd want to go live on my own and I'd want to have a day job and then work on this dream job as you can. But you don't have time for this new business idea and college, I don't think.

Starting point is 01:43:58 Am I being too harsh, Rachel? No, I don't think you're too harsh. I mean, yeah, I mean, the issue with what you're doing real estate wise is again, you have to have a lot of contacts. I mean, because the wholesale, it's a flip. You could go 90, 120 days with no income, Matthew. Yeah. You understand what we're saying? That's what makes me nervous. I don't like that. The thing about the pipeline is, so the city that I live in I'm actually two and a half hours south of st. Louis. It's just the closest major city But my city has a registered landlords list. I've went through the entire list. I've contacted every single person

Starting point is 01:44:40 I have a very extensive buyers's list that I actually. Yeah. I mean, you could keep hustling it for sure. I'd have a backup plan. But I would just have that backup plan to make sure you have some income coming in in case something dries up in the real estate market. It's kind of up and down, a little fickle. But yeah, I just like a safety net of knowing that there's a paycheck

Starting point is 01:45:06 coming in and it may not be the dream job but at least we have that until this other venture really starts picking up so that that's what I would do. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home, scared doesn't even begin to cover it, but I got mad enough to change. I started using God's and grandma's ways of handling money. That journey became the total money makeover, a plan everyday people can use to take control of their money. Millions have changed their lives following the plan in this book and found hope. Start your makeover today at ramsysolutions.com slash store. Michael's up next in Seattle, Washington. Michael, how can we help today?

Starting point is 01:46:26 Hi. Hi. Thank you so much for having me on the show. Sure. So my question is, my grandparents are reaching the last stage of their life and they're getting their, you're getting their affairs in order, the will and everything like that. And they want to leave the house to both my cousin and I. I don't want to live in the house, but my cousin does. I'm wondering if they leave the house to me in my name, but my cousin lives in it. How will that affect me? I just, I don't want to set myself up for a bad scenario. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:47:02 Cause if he doesn't pay taxes or something, it all goes back to you. I mean, you would be responsible for everything that he does. So I wouldn't do that. I'd have him buy you out. Are you both going to be on the deed? Are they putting both of you? So we, that's, that's the other thing is my cousin, she's diabetic and she might need like state assistance with her medication and everything like that.

Starting point is 01:47:20 So they want to leave the house just to me, but my cousin wants to live in it. Well, then she just needs to buy it from you. Yeah, well, she's currently 17. Oh. I don't know if she's gonna have the money for that. No, no, she won't. Well, then why don't you just take the house and sell it?

Starting point is 01:47:42 You don't wanna live in it, so take it from them and then sell it. Because the 17-year-old thinks she wants to live in it, so take it from them and then sell it. Because the 17-year-old thinks she wants to live in it. So it's a conversation with her, Michael. So here's the deal. I would not base a major asset on a 17-year-old's thinking that they want to live here, because she's going to go off to college and, you know, meet, so I don't know, whatever, live her life. And you have waited four or five years for her to come back to buy this house down the road and- Well, here's what I'm confused about.

Starting point is 01:48:12 The way you set it up, Michael, you told us that the grandparents want to leave it to both of you. But now what you've told us is they're actually going to put it in your name. So the reason I'm bringing that up is have they promised her that she gets to live in it? So she told them that she wants to live in it. They haven't really made like an exact, I guess, a promise, but we both wanted to keep the house and the family because I guess it's just nostalgia. I know it's a bad reason, but it's- Not necessarily. Nostalgia is not a bad reason as long as you manage it well.

Starting point is 01:48:45 So that's what I'm trying to understand here is what are the expectations? Because the way you let out, it was they want to leave the house to us. And so I'm getting a strong feeling that she's expecting to live in this because of the way it's been communicated to both of you from the grandparents. Is that true? Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right.

Starting point is 01:49:04 Now we got it. Okay. The reason I'm bringing that up is Rachel, that gets to a much stickier situation now. Is the house paid for Michael? The house is fully paid for. Yes. Oh, so the only thing you would have to take care of is upkeep and utilities. Yes. And I discussed this with my cousin that I wouldn't have an issue with her living here as long as she was able to keep up on the property. It's about an acre, and it's a three-story house, though. It's a lot of cleaning and a lot of maintenance, and I don't think she understands really the upkeep cost of an older house like this.

Starting point is 01:49:39 So then that's on you. She's 17. Yeah, it would be on me. How old are you? Yeah, 21. All right. Both of your frontal lobes aren't even done developing. And I'm not saying that in an unkind way, but you're going to have to over explain this to a 17-year-old.

Starting point is 01:49:53 She doesn't get it. No, that's like, that's a curse. Like, you do not need to, no, a 17-year-old, even when she doesn't even- Well, I'm with you. Yeah, and you can live in this. But I'm just telling him, I'm addressing what he just said. We have a communication problem. She doesn't get what it's going to take to take care of a three-story, one'm with you. Yeah. But I'm just telling him, I'm addressing what he just said. We have a communication problem. She doesn't get what it's going to take to take care of a three-story, one-acre deal.

Starting point is 01:50:09 You mentioned the fact that she's got diabetes. You didn't do that just to throw it out there. That means she's got some health complications with that. So that adds to this deal. So her being 17, physical issues, I'm with Rachel. This is a no-go and you're gonna have to break her heart and you're gonna maybe have to sit down with grandma and grandpa and have them help communicate this.

Starting point is 01:50:30 Yes, because it's unfair for you to hold all this weight and responsibility and holding out on something for a 17-year-old to make a decision later. Where are your parents in all of this? Where are her parents? Yes, and yours. My parents, I guess they don't really know much about this scenario. They're separated and they live very far away from each other. And her parents, they don't want the house.

Starting point is 01:50:55 They think it's too much house and they have no issue with her having the house. But I don't think they understand all the responsibility that goes into managing this much property either. Now you got some checked out parents on both sides, so Rachel's right. Yeah. I think this is a curse. So Rachel, how do you handle this? You sit down, put yourself in his position, you're gonna go talk to the grandparents. What are you saying? I mean, I feel like it sounds heartless, but honestly, I mean once they pass, if they leave you this asset, Michael, and I would wanna be very clear

Starting point is 01:51:26 of what their expectations are for her, because if they want her to be part owner, but they're not putting her on the deed for some reason, then in good faith, you would sell the home, you would split the proceeds 50-50, and you both get a great inheritance out of it, and you go live your lives, and you go buy a house that you wanna buy later in life.

Starting point is 01:51:43 But if the deed is in your name, and she then is going to somehow live there, that's not good for her later because she's not building equity in anything. And then also it's a risk on your end because your name is on the deed and if she doesn't pay taxes and upkeep like what you're saying, then you get a demolished property, you know, four years later or whatever. It just nothing really ends up well unless, Michael, you know, four years later, whatever. It just, nothing really ends up well, unless, Michael, you said, my grandparents are giving me their house.

Starting point is 01:52:09 I love their house. I love this house. It's where I've wanted to live and raise my kids for an ever and ever, and it's great. Your name's on the deed, you get the house, and everything's great. But it's this entanglement of another person

Starting point is 01:52:23 who's not even of age to go buy cigarettes. I love your plan. I mean, like, she's not even 18. I love your plan. And it's unfair for her too, Michael, because life changes. And for her to feel then this responsibility of having to go back to Seattle if she goes off somewhere for school, because her cousin has the grandparents who passed home and she said she was going to live, I don't know, it just gets real messy.

Starting point is 01:52:44 How much is the house worth? I'm actually not sure. the grandparents who passed home and she said she was gonna, I don't know, it just gets real messy. How much is the house worth? I'm actually not sure. So the house isn't actually in Seattle. It's in a small town in eastern Washington and it's probably worth about $400,000, maybe $350,000. Okay. Let's play Rachel's idea out, okay?

Starting point is 01:53:01 Don't you think you could sell the vision to grandparents and to your cousin? Let's say it's worth 400 and Rachel's good faith idea I thought was great. 200 to you, 200 to her, and we go our separate ways. What a wonderful heritage that is for both of you young people. How does that sit with you? Well, I think deep down I know that is the right decision to make because I don't know that she'd be able to keep up with all this property. And I know that I really do love this house and I love this property. And I have a lot of great memories

Starting point is 01:53:36 here, but I just don't want to live in this town. I get it. That's great. I feel the same way. My grandparents house. I mean, I, 100%. So go take a bunch of pictures of it, do some video, make some memories, put it in a box, sell the house, man. Yeah, I think that'd be the right choice. I do too, and I, because I-

Starting point is 01:53:57 I hope I can convince my cousin of that, but- Well, she doesn't have much say, because her name's not on the deed of the home. Yeah, this is you and mama, mama, You want to be gentle with mama, mamao, mamao, papao, whatever their names are. Everybody's got different names. Mamao and papao. I'm struggling here. I don't know why I got off on those vows like I did.

Starting point is 01:54:14 Because also, Michael, yes, and not only is the upkeep and everything for her, but her being handcuffed to a property, I don't like that for her. She needs to go and live her life. She can't handle it. Michael, you've told us twice in this call, she can't handle it. She can't handle it. No, she's 17. I'm not certain that she can't handle it. And I know that she'll also be older when, I mean, they're not knocking on death's door or anything.

Starting point is 01:54:37 I thought you just said at the beginning of this that they're about to die. Oh, they're not like about to die. I'm sorry. I was just going to say, I'm sorry. I wasn't quite that morbid. It wasn't quite. Rachel's burying them right now. Oh my god. They're vibrant. They walk three miles every day.

Starting point is 01:54:56 God bless them. They're fine. Here's the deal. My grandpa probably has a year and a half and my grandma doesn't even show up more than five. There's nothing on fire then. Let stuff play out time will tell as well She may be turn 18 19 and she may fall in love. I don't know. Maybe I will tell Michael I think you're waffling here. I don't like it. You know what you should do You got to go talk to me and mom and nothing has to be stressed right now to your point like

Starting point is 01:55:23 Yeah, God bless the grandparents. They're doing well, Rachel. I'm so sorry. These are tough. These are tough. Sometimes you get these casual moments and you kind of forget that you're like. Well, he did say I did get the impression they might be. The way he started the call made it feel like. Yeah. Well, he did say his grandfather's got a year and a half.

Starting point is 01:55:44 So, I mean, that's not a whole lot of time. That was later in the call though, Ken. No, I know. I'm saying to your point. I'm bailing you out. Okay. Thank you. I can see how you got there.

Starting point is 01:55:52 You've got a big heart. You love old people. Nobody questions that. Our scripture of the day comes from Ecclesiastes 5 verse 5. It is better that you should not vow than that you should vow and not pay. And our quote from Sam Ewing, inflation is when you pay $15 for the $10 haircut you used to get for $5 when you had hair. So there you go. There's a little mental gymnastics there.

Starting point is 01:56:46 I felt like we should have saved that one for when Dave was here. I, on the other hand, got quite the frock up here. Or as the kids call it, lettuce. Have you heard this? What? No. So I play pickleball every Wednesday night and there's a bunch of 20-something guys in this and I wear a headband.

Starting point is 01:57:03 Yeah, you do. For functionality. I love it. Cause this stuff right here gets wet and floppy and gets in my eyes. And so I'll walk out and they're always saying stuff like, oh, look at the lettuce. On that guy.

Starting point is 01:57:14 Yeah. I know. I kinda like it. It's all this Gen Z verbiage. I know, I'm trying my best. I can't keep up with it. I can't either. I ask my kids to do something, they'll go bet.

Starting point is 01:57:23 Have you heard that one? No. Yeah, like, hey son, can you do this? Bet. I guess that means yes. I guess that's good. I'm always guessing. I don't know. I said choogie the other day in a meeting.

Starting point is 01:57:33 Don't even know what that means. And all the Gen Z girls were like, that's out. And I was like, oh. Wait a second, let's pause for just a second. What is choogie? I learned this word and apparently it's dunzo. It's like something that used to be cool like 10, 15 years ago and it's not anymore.

Starting point is 01:57:49 So it's like fashion or something and you see someone and you're like, eh, it's kinda chuggy. And so you used it. And then I used it thinking I was like part of the girls. They all looked and they're like, yeah. And apparently chuggy is chuggy. Yeah, that's it.

Starting point is 01:58:02 I'm catching on, James. I still got a little bit left. I can't's it. That's it. So I'm catching on, James. I've still got a little bit left in the dad brain. All right. Chad is up in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Chad, how can we help? Hey guys, thanks for taking the call. Sure. So I have a debt question for you guys. My wife and I have about $180 and eighty thousand dollars in debt right now and we are trying to figure out the best approach and What to tackle first in order to get this paid down as soon as possible. What's the hundred and eighty? It is about a hundred and ten in student loans

Starting point is 01:58:41 My wife has a master's in OT. so about 100 is written that and then 10 is mine from a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering. And then there's about 55 in medical debt and personal loans that we were very fortunate for a relative to be able to pay for that rather than us having to go through a bank. A few years back, my wife was diagnosed with brain cancer. Oh my gosh, Chad. Yep, ask some, well not ask, but we were fortunate enough for them to offer to pay for that so we didn't have to go through a bank. So that's interest free, which is very nice.

Starting point is 01:59:20 Is that the 55 you're talking about? Yep, that's the 55 you're talking about? Yup, that's the 55 and then the rest of it, 14, is in a car payment. How's she doing? She's good. Remission as of almost two years now. We're very fortunate. Gosh, thank God. What's she making in her job?

Starting point is 01:59:46 She's an occupational therapist. She makes about 85k. Okay. And what do you make? About 125 OTE. 50 of it is bonus. Okay. Wow.

Starting point is 01:59:56 That's great. Great salary so we can do some damage here. For sure. Yeah. I mean, the way we talk about getting out of debt is just smallest debt to largest debt. And so for you guys, the car will be the first thing you'll tackle.

Starting point is 02:00:12 And it's regardless of interest rates. And so even though the 55 is interest free and interest is starting to kick in on the student loans, I know soon, but I would still keep that in the middle. So I would just, yep, I would pay off the car. How much margin do you guys have a month if you were to do a really, really, really strict budget and lived on nothing? Yeah, if we do a really strict budget right now, the way that I have it broken down is

Starting point is 02:00:35 without the bonuses, we're planning on throwing every single dollar of that that comes in over the next few years into it. So without that, we bring in about $8,200. I'm putting 15% into my 401k. I would assume that you guys would probably say to back that off. Yeah, pause that. Okay. So we'll back that off. Total after taxes, about $8,200 a month after all of our expenses. We're currently paying $500 to the relative, $500 to the car, and then after that we've got about $3,400. So-

Starting point is 02:01:14 Okay, how much would be in that retirement if you were to plug that back in, if that was back in your paycheck, how much extra would that be a month? I think it's around 50, something like that. How much you broke up? About $450. $450 you broke up? About 450. 450.

Starting point is 02:01:28 Okay, that's amazing. So you guys will have close to $4,000 per month to throw at this debt. And that's not including they're putting 500 towards the medical debt to family. So if you were to do it the way we teach, which is everything goes at the car. Yeah, you could ask. Now you're actually- About 14 in savings. Oh. Hello. Tell him what we do with that. Well, what would we do? Can we pay that off?

Starting point is 02:01:56 So we take 13,000 out of that because we teach the baby steps. Are you familiar with baby step one, which is a thousand000 in savings for an emergency? It's going to scare you all to death. This is, but if you've got 14, here's how we teach it. You take 13 tonight, okay, and you pay towards the car, and that's going to leave you with $1,000 left on the car, and then the next month you're not going to pay the family $500. You're going to take- You'll ask, because we do say pay minimum payments on everything but since it's just the family I don't know if that's I don't know if that $500 is

Starting point is 02:02:31 covering their if it's their minimum requirement was it their cash or did they take a loan in their name no it was their cash okay they were able to stack up some money throughout their life time and were in a good spot to help with. Gotcha, gotcha well yeah I mean you'll pay off the car you guys I mean in the They were able to stack up some money throughout their lifetime and were in a good spot to help with. Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, yeah, I mean, you'll pay off the car, you guys. In the next month, the car is gone.

Starting point is 02:02:49 Yeah, for sure. So that's done and then be working out towards that medical debt. And then, I mean, within, you know, 12 months or so, you got 14 months, you'll have that paid off, which is incredible. And then another probably two years on that student loan. And I would, do you guys have that paid off, which is incredible. And then another probably two years on that student loan. And I would, do you guys have kids? No, but that's something that we're, we're wanting to get our finances in order here before that.

Starting point is 02:03:16 You know, we definitely do. We definitely want to buy a house and everything, but you know. Well, don't wait on kids for this. If you guys want kids, go ahead and have kids. People have kids all the time while they do baby step two. Or yeah. All my life, I'd love to hear that. Yeah, I mean, people, George Campbell,

Starting point is 02:03:29 I always laugh because he's always the one. George is always like, I mean, it's just really nice when you don't have any debt, no kid. And I'm like, but also, you look 10 years down the road, you're like, I wish we had started early, you know. Well, George doesn't even buy himself anything nice. So, it's very cheap. So people have other opinions,

Starting point is 02:03:45 but I would always say get married, have kids, live your life and then bring your money journey along with that. So I'll throw that out there, but you guys decide that. But yeah, I mean, I would make it a goal chat. It'd be really aggressive, but in three years, see if you guys can pay this off. And if I'm asking if you guys have kids,

Starting point is 02:04:02 cause you don't right now. So I would be working both of you over time because you could take this three years down to easily two and a half Two years in three months. I mean, I mean and then maybe you get a raise too in the midst of all of this I mean you could really be aggressive on this. What's the car payment? Car payments 370 what we're paying we've been paying 500 on it I know but I'm getting my point is is you're getting a raise on that too, so you're just gonna roll that in.

Starting point is 02:04:27 Oh, that's true, yeah. So I'm just telling you, you've got well over 4,000, you got a bit over $4,000 of discretionary income, which is not, there's no discretion. It's all going towards the debt. But man, that's a really good sledgehammer. It is. And you guys are gonna see tremendous momentum.

Starting point is 02:04:44 I'm telling you what, when you see that medical debt dip below 20,000, I just got a sense. And I'm making the 20,000 up arbitrarily, but somewhere in there, you guys, because Rachel and I have done enough debt-free screams, somewhere after you've paid the car off and you've made a pretty big chunk on that personal loan on medical.

Starting point is 02:05:05 Given the circumstances around that, it was scary. You want it out, you want it done. You're gonna feel great. You guys are gonna get to experience some severe momentum. It's a fun thing. Yeah, but get that momentum started, Chad, with honestly paying off this car in the next month. And I know it's scary going down to $1,000,

Starting point is 02:05:22 and if something happens in the middle of it, if you guys get pregnant, you can cause this. You guys can cash flow any emergency. That's right. You guys have a great income. And so do it because you guys need a little spark in all of this. Like if you guys are starting this off, this is like a boom. Like the fact that you have a paid off car in the driveway next month, that's crazy. That's crazy. So I would, I think you could move some money around. I bet you could pay this car off tonight, couldn't you? Definitely. I'd pay it off tonight. Surprise the wife. Don't surprise me.

Starting point is 02:05:50 Say babe, I paid the car off. No, tell her, let's pay the car off together. That's a fun surprise. She may kill him. I don't know. Cars paid off. But do it, Chad, do it. Thank you guys.

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