The Ramsey Show - "Should I Open Up A Secret Bank Account to Protect Myself?"

Episode Date: December 5, 2025

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brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free today normal is broken common sense is weird so we're here to help you transform your life from the ramsie network and the fair winds credit union studio this is the ramsie show thanks for joining us i'm dave ramsie your host, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, my daughter, she's my co-host today. Open phones at AAA 825-5-225. Sadie is in Vancouver. Hi, Sadie, how are you? Good, how are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? So I have a bit of an odd question. I'm wondering if I should open up a secret bank account without my husband knowing in case of an emergency. What kind of emergencies do you see happening?

Sorry, I'm pretty nervous. We overspend a lot each month, and I'm really trying to keep our payments down on things, but most of our overspending comes. from him and we have a difficult time talking about finances i mean we're we're getting better at it but it's still not where it needs to be at all for example two months ago we overspent by $3,500 and last month was $2,500 where's this money coming from um well it's all on credit cards right now okay how long you've been married huh 10 years okay okay

okay there's never a situation where lying and deception solves a problem all that is is hold on hold on all that does is avoid the problem that does not fix your situation no okay it's going to make it worse instead so I'm not going to tell you to do this because it's not good for you I'm going to encourage you instead to head straight into the situation, wide open. I want you to sit down with a marriage counselor, and I want you to have an absolute righteous anger fit. Your husband is misbehaving unbelievably. And it's terrifying you. Yeah.

And I want you to do something about it. not hiding money from him we are in marriage counseling but we've only had a couple of sessions so far yeah yeah this is not working this is an emergency tell the marriage counselor that the house is on fire and we're going to die if we don't fix the fire we can't just sit around and discuss our potty training as children we've got to deal with this miss behavior today. Yeah. Big time.

Big time. Rachel and I can both hear the terror in your voice. Yeah. And I mean, this doesn't fix the problem, but to this thought, I'm thinking if I am you protecting some level of something, and it wouldn't be a secret account, but you would tell him, I, because we do say, don't separate your finances when you're married, except for, and we do have some exceptions to that. And so, Sadie, this would be one of them for me.

If I were you, and you would have to tell him, again, it's not in secret. But I'm opening up a separate checking account in my name because I don't feel safe financially with you. It feels irresponsible. I don't know what to do. And if we don't fix this, this is, I mean, these are things that end marriages, Sadie, and I don't want that for you. But it's a reflection of who he is.

And that makes me, that makes me nervous. And it makes me nervous that you can't talk to him about it. You know, it's one thing if he's obviously very, if he's obviously very, grieved by, you know, I don't know, I'm just making this up, that he has, like, a spending addiction or something, and he knows the problem, he sees the problem, you guys are working through the problem. But it sounds like he won't even work through the problem because you can't even talk to him about it, which gives me a red flag. Yeah, well, yeah, he has, like, there's things that he's going through that we're also working on together. So it's a lot of times it seems like when

I want to have a conversation. Wait, wait, what does that mean? That was vague. What are you, What are you saying? Things that he's going through. Probably addiction? I don't, I wouldn't, I don't know if it would classify it as an addiction. He used to have a drinking problem that got really bad, but I think I, like, I caught it early enough that he started working on that. So he's doing a lot better, like a lot better. but it does, you know, if he has to slip up one day, then it means that spending in other areas goes up as well.

And it's usually things like eating out and video games. Yeah. What I'm hearing is a very immature, very irresponsible little boy, and you've been trying to be his mommy for 10 freaking years and you're really tired. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think you're going to. last much longer if he doesn't turn this around. So I think you need to have a really blunt in your face discussion with your marriage counselor and go, I don't have a lot left in my tank. I'm

about done with this guy. Okay. He's going to have to get his crap together really quick. Do you work, Sadie? Where's the income coming from? It's all from him and then I get a child tax benefit because we have three kids. Okay. But you're not working outside the home? No. Okay. All right. Well, I think you've got to start thinking about making this as big a deal as it is, but no,

we're not going to tell you to open a secret account. I'm with Rachel, though, if you want to open your own account and put half the dadgum money in that account and just tell him you're doing it and he can't have it, you know, and until we get, until we get you. until you start behaving, you know, because this is just out of control. I'm so sorry, honey. Well, I mean, he's, he obviously has a lot, a lot to work on. And I don't, and I, the language of which obviously we're not in a situation of the slip

up and this and that. I think things are more serious than you're probably giving weight to Sater or probably your feeling and maybe not saying, but there's a lot of, a lot of dysfunction and red flags. And for his sake, wanting healing and. wholeness, right? Like a lot of that's coming from somewhere. That pain is manifesting and going out, you know, every direction for him. And so figuring that out. But in the meantime, you and your kids, yeah, financially to keep you safe, because you want to keep the lights on you, right? And you just continue to dig deeper and cook cards. And where you can control is cutting up the credit cards,

getting all the credit cards out, you guys together, cutting everything up, you know, stopping access points. Now, could he go apply for something in his own right and secret? Sure, but you can't control that. What can you do today? And as much as you can figure out where there is money for him to outsource, like, stop it, you know, at where it begins. But I'm so sorry, Sadie. This is a, this is deteriorating before your very eyes. And we may see it more clearly than you do in the sense that we're, I don't think we're overreacting.

I think you're underreacting. And so it's so overwhelming, you know, not working, having the three kids and thinking, what's my exit plan if this were the case? I mean, that is so scary and overwhelming to even think about. But those are probably discussions. If you have good friends, find community and start thinking through, Sadie, for your life. But my prayer is that you guys heal this and that he finds healing in his own work for your sake because I'm so, so sorry.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time, a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly, everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential, because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage, no gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

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It's fast. It's easy, and it could make all the difference. go to zander.com or call 800, 356, 4282. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. Vicki is in Savannah. Hi, Vicki. How can we help? Hi, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Um, so our question is, um, we're a little bit confused on what my husband and I are a little bit confused on what our next steps are, because there are so many moving parts. Um, we currently have a home that we, so we lived in Tennessee and we ended up moving to, uh, South Carolina. I'm just above the border of Savannah.

Um, and we moved to live with my dad, um, to save. some money to buy a house because when we were ready to buy a house, we finally paid back all of our student loans and it was 2021 and then everything skyrocketed. So we couldn't get ahead of it. So my dad was very nice and said, okay, you move in with us. But before we moved in, we had signed on a new built home. So before we moved to where we live now, we signed on a new built home and then moved to my dad and saved some money. But we didn't realize that the area was a little bit expensive, definitely more expensive than Tennessee. But, you know, we were great. We could save the money. And during that time, my dad had a

mini stroke, so we needed to stay. And we have to see him because he's not married or anything like that. And he's the only person we have for the kids. My husband's family is in a different country, things like that. So we then moved into our house now, which was 453 at the time. And we ended up putting 67,000 down. That's the only thing we could save. But when we signed, it took about a year to build. And when we closed, it ended up closing at 8% interest, which was the highest interest, right? So we had to buy it down like a little bit, but we've been struggling ever since. Since then, we have four kids, four and under. All of them are developmentally delayed, and they all have so many services. Two of them are already on.

on the spectrum. And then our current mortgage is 373. At 7% interest, my husband makes 132. I have a three-month-old baby, and I was supposed to be a stay-at-home mom, but I went back to work. And my husband works three jobs

right now. He's a data analyst, and he works, he's a tennis coach on weekends, and And he works Kroger at night to try to get some grocery bills down. We don't, we're just, we're not sure what to do. We know we have to sell the house and we've tried selling the house twice already and it's not selling. I was pregnant with my third at the time and then I got too far along and had to take it off. And then I was pregnant with my fourth and it was on for four or five months and I got

too far along, had to take it off. And we're not sure what to do. And now we're having an issue where, you know, behind us is unincorporated land and they're shooting their guns into our neighborhood. And it finally hit a fence in a house. And it's been on the news already. And we can't let our four children out in the front because when we bought the house, it was the beginning of the neighborhood.

And now that they've built in the neighborhood, it's a main road. So every time we're out there, one of them gets hit. And obviously, I said they're on the spectrum. So I can't really tell them to, um, to like it's difficult to teach them so I mean they're learning they're there you know but we're really on it um and we're not quite sure what to do because the homes for rent here are you know renting is just throwing money away we know that um we know that we can only afford like a 300,000 but that doesn't exist here and a whoa whoa whoa stop stop stop I'm sorry it's okay it's okay

all right um so what you're starting to do is you're starting to use language that says there's no way out and that's simply not true okay you can't make a statement about south carolina and savannah georgia area that says there's no 300,000 dollar houses that's not a true statement there might not be one you want to live in but there are 300,000 dollar houses and um yeah we have looked at some yeah so you have to wait a minute you have to you have to sell this house and you have to remain not pregnant long enough to sell this house you can't have any more kids you got to get out of this house yeah okay two times you tried to sell the house and you were pregnant and that's what stopped it in your story if i heard your story right

okay yeah and so we're going to have to start planning some very making some very clear decisions and you've got a lot of, like you said, a lot of variables. There's a lot of things coming at you that are draining the gas out of your tank, the fuel out of your tank. You have your hands full, kiddo. I mean, what you described in a perfect world, if all the finances were in really good shape with the kids situation you've got, with you working on spectrum stuff and you're working on small babies and everything else,

you are absolutely overwhelmed just with that. a normal human would be okay and and then let's go ahead and have a few bullet rounds come past your house that that always helps you know and then let's add to that the fact that this is a whole financial stress thing is a mess and it's a mistake and you know you shouldn't have done it and you feel bad about doing it every time you think about it and so you pile these things and pile these things and pile these things and then the situation just becomes you start your brain starts to tell you that you can't get out that you're stuck and it's wrong. You can get out. So we're going to put the house on the market tomorrow.

Get on the web. Jump on Ramsey Solutions. Find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent and put a sign on the yard tomorrow. Now. Okay. We have been, I'm sorry, we've been looking at homes on the outskirts. But the homes on the outskirts, for lack of a better term, are like together like the schools don't offer the services that all of my children need and if we move anywhere else there's wait list there is no scenario that you can stay in this house and have a good life no yeah we're like so we have to solve we have to solve for it not find reasons it can't be done okay you haven't found the solution yet i understand that but that doesn't mean there's not one out there yeah we thought of another of a solution

they're still building in our neighborhood currently and we thought about selling this house but putting money down on a new build in the back of the community but those are still I mean the cheapest one we found was 465 and then you can't afford to live there yeah it's killing you

why would you sign up for more pain you can't live in that neighborhood you can't afford it you need to move to something that you can afford and get your life back because listen if your payments were under control your husband and wasn't working six jobs you weren't trying to pick up a job and all you had to deal with was your situation with your children that's more than anybody I'd have to say grace over without all the other stuff. You've got to get some of these things off your plate. This is not a sustainable situation.

You're going to blow up. And I think the hard thing is trying to make everything work. You can't make everything work. So that's it. So I think there's a level of, I mean, it's kind of almost like grief of like, wow, I really thought this from a location, a school, like X, Y, and Z was going to look like this and realizing it can't. It can't look like this.

And so in order for us to get margin in peace, it's probably going to mean, yeah, maybe a move financially that is way better. Maybe the schools aren't as great. But most public schools have the ability, I mean, depending on the county, of helping. And your kids are small. I mean, they're not even really an elementary school, if I heard you right. They're probably like. Two of them are very young. But, yeah.

So if anything, I would just want that stability of margin and being able for your husband to quit one of the jobs, right? I mean, finding that again, but that's the housing situation and the location. But the physical attributes of the house you're in do not make a home. The location of the house you're in doesn't make a home. You and your husband, as a couple, make a home for those kids. And most everyone listening to you calling in right now lived in a home that was a lot worse than you're living in now when we were growing up. Almost everyone listening. Me especially. This is Dave Ramsey. We all want to know that the money we give to charity is doing something that matters, that it's making a real change, giving someone lasting hope. And here's one way to make

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That's the kind of life-changing impact your giving makes through pre-born. Go now to preborn.com slash Ramsey or call 855-601-229. That's preborn.com slash Ramsey. Paul's in Seattle. Great. How are you? Thanks for having me. Sure. What's up? So I'm finding myself in between a rock and a hard place. I've been at my current job for about 20 years.

I've started when I was 20. I'm 40 years old now. and it's a warehouse job, right? So I took it when I was younger because I, you know, the best paying job at the time. I've invested with a pension there. It's union. It's great on paper. But about five years ago, I started my own landscaping business, long of landscaping

business. And it has exploded and it kind of took off to the point to where I've been doing both for about five years now. And I'm stuck in the spot where how do you know when it's time to go? because I find myself with a lot of fear of the unknown of losing something that's so secure that you've been a part of for about 20 years. Well, boat anchors are secure, but they'll drown you. So what are you making at the day job?

I think we make about $38 an hour or something like that. So what do you make a year at the day job? Probably about 80, 7580, I would say. And what do you do at the warehouse for $80,000? We are union pickers, basically, we're order selectors. We go through orders we load them. For $80,000? Yeah, about $75,000.

Well, he's been there 20 years. I don't care. You're picking boxes for $80,000? That's amazing. Okay. But just like you said, all I'm doing is moving boxes. and I feel like my purpose, my goal. So what are you making at landscaping?

What was your profit last year? I mean, because I'm doing it both on side, I would probably say it's probably a little bit less than that, but you have to understand. I'm only doing it about 20 hours. No, that wasn't what I asked. What I asked is what you actually made on your tax return. What was your profit?

Probably about 60. Okay, good. All right. And for me, you know, I don't have any, I don't have any debt in my business because it's all been, so all the money that I've been making, I've just been paying off all my equipment, you know, so our family has. Do you have any other debt? No, we have no household debt. We have no credit card debt. What does it take a month for your household to operate?

I would say on the most expensive end, maybe $4,500 a month. Okay. Well, you can quit tomorrow if you want. My wife works at the court so I can get on her medical. We have about $20,000 in savings for our next day, no credit card debt. You can quit tomorrow if you want. I mean, and I know this, but me being the sole provider and going into the unknown, it's almost like I feel like I'm getting a divorce, you know, for 20 years.

I've almost been at that job longer than I have not been. Yeah, but she's not a good wife. No, it's not. It's just getting the courage enough, you know, getting the, courage enough to do it. Yeah. Yeah. So here's the thing. Let me, let me stop you a second. Okay. Your security does not come from someone else's ability to provide you a paycheck. That is an illusion. Your security comes from your ability to get up, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. You have two methods of doing that now. One is you've been employed for a long, long time,

lifting boxes. One is you've grown your own business. That's two ways that you can get up, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. But the idea that I have a stable job, stables are where they keep horses when they don't run. So go run. Okay? Go do this. It's an illusion.

Your stability, your sense of security is an illusion because you're basing it on the fact that those goobers over there at the warehouse are going to write you a check, and somehow the union's going to take care of you. Laugh, laugh, laugh, cough, cough. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. So now let's go back to who's really going to take care of you. God and Paul. Absolutely.

Go run your landscaping business and make $130,000 a year and work a considerable less hours a week and enjoy your life. And that's what I'm after. You know, I felt like, you know, I started when I was young, and my priorities as I've gotten older have changed drastically about what's important to me and just time with my family and just being able to prove to myself that I'm able to make a living for myself. But it's a very scary thing to do when you leave them known and trying to get.

It would be scary if you were making $30,000 at the landscaping. You're already making almost as much at landscaping as you are at the warehouse. If you told me you're making $20, I wouldn't tell you to quit. Right. I would say, you know, get your hours up on the landscaping. You know, let's get the boat closer to the dock for you jump. But your boat's really close the dock. You're just stepping.

But you've been used to standing on the dock, and you need to step into the boat, man. And I know that, you know, I'm turning away so much business because I can only, I only have so much time. You don't have to convince me, Paul. I'm already sold. I think he's convincing himself. I guess the million-dollar question is, how do I convince my wife? Oh, what does she say? what's she saying um i love my wife to death but you know it's very one of it's one of those things

or fear she she's very much so afraid of change and this is a very big change because we cost so far listen no one's afraid of change when changes for the better they're only afraid of change if they don't think it's going to work if you get a brand new nice car and it's better than the old one no one says i'm afraid of change right they only fear change is if they think it's going to be worse. That's the only time people fear change. That's a misnomer. It's not true. So we love change when it's for the better. All of us do. So, yeah, I love change. And so, well, all we've got to do is she's got to get her head around where money comes from, and it doesn't come from a, quote, stable job. It comes from your ability to go

into the marketplace and earn money. And, dude, at any minute, you could go get a job like the one you've got, again, if this whole thing falls apart. Whoopty-dupty. Yeah. But, but, But I promise you, it's not going to fall apart. I promise you. You've got five-year track record. You're talking to a guy who can – our company consults 10,000 small businesses. We coach a lot of small businesses. I would tell you the truth.

You know I would. If this idea sucked, I would tell you it sucked. Yeah. It doesn't suck. This will work. Yeah, and, you know, being in Seattle, the Evergreen State, you know, it was just one of those things. I really enjoyed it. You know, I did it as a side hustle because, you know, we were just looking for more income

and it just exploded into something I could have made. I'm already sold. I'm already sold. You don't have to sell me. You just got to talk to her about it. And the bottom line is, is you're going to be just fine. You're going to be just fine. Yeah, how much does she make, Paul? She probably about as much as me. I mean, I would say she's probably in the 70. Yeah, so you're going to have a $150,000 household income almost immediately. And double of what you guys need to run your household, too. Yeah, you're making a lot. And you've done really good with your finances. You're not in debt.

You got an emergency fund. Everything about this is stable, stable, stable, stable, hey, man, go do it. This is the time. Fly and be free. Please, please, please quit that awful job. Please. And he said he's the sole provider.

Have you ever heard? He's not. He's not the sole provider. So that's it. So she's, I mean. Guys out there in America, if you've ever heard the term golden handcuffs, you just witnessed it. you've just heard the discussion this is golden handcuffs and it is a it's a fallacy so my favorite

story on this is my grandpa lost a business in the great depression and he got a job at alcoa aluminum in the accounting department he worked there 38 years because it was stable because it was a good job because he was scared and he couldn't he didn't have yeah you got an income after the depression he was happy to have a job and grateful to have a job and my grandma was the same way and he worked there until he retired and he was a wonderful man he was a wonderful man he was a wonderful man. So I printed the financial peace book and went out on my own after we went broke and we're trying to get the financial piece book sold. And the publisher sent me an email one day, said we just sold our one millionth copy of financial piece. Then my phone rang and it was my

grandmother. And she said, I was praying for you this morning. I think you need to get a job. Isn't that sweet? She's so sweet. They're like, you're not, Dave's, Dave is not working. It's writing books. Well, I'm just worried about you. I mean, you're self-employed and it's not stable. Go get them, Paul.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got NetSuite. That was years ago, and we've never looked back. See, NetSuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built-in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more.

It's one system connected to every part of your business for real-time insights, not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. So you can trust the data, stop wasting time, and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour today at NetSuite.com slash Ramsey. That's NetSuite.com slash Ramsey. Oh, I'm doing fine. It's great to be with you guys. You too. How can we help? So I'm 62 years old, and I've been trying to think about retirement.

The things that are holding me back are, well, health insurance is one thing. And also, the fact that no money will be coming in, but all money will be going out. And I'm having a hard time getting comfortable with that. And what I really want is somebody to tell me that. that I can stop. What do you mean no money will be coming in? You mean you won't be earning an income? That's right.

Okay. And so do you have a pension? Do you have a 401K nest egg? Yeah, yeah. I've got 401Ks and IRAs and all that stuff. Okay. No pension. No pension.

How much is in all those accounts? $3.5 million. Okay. All right. Well, if no money's coming in, it's just because you're not taking any of it as all. Okay. Because let's just be, what do you make a year? 175.

Okay. Way to go, man. I'm proud of you. Well done, Steve. I assume you started with nothing and became a multimillionaire. Yep. I'm very proud of you. That's amazing.

American Dream is not dead. Ladies and gentlemen, meet Steve. So now, so you understand that 3.5 invested in good growth stock mutual funds. if it averaged 10% would be 350K. Yeah. Income that it produces without touching the nest egg. Right. Which is twice what you make now.

Right. I guess that, you know, there's still, you know, some years it's going to be up, some years it's going to be down. What do I do in the down years? Use some of it. Yeah. Okay. So the down years very seldom are below 5%. Find a time that the stock market made under 5%, the number of times in the last 30 years, hardly ever.

Right. Okay? Right. Like maybe two. And so you use a little bit of the 3.5 maybe, but maybe don't take the whole 350 off. Maybe take 200 off and let it grow by 150 to cover the down years. Right. Steve, do you guys

It's impossible unless you lose your mind And join Congress for you to go through this money before you die Is your house paid off and everything, Steve? Any debt? No, no debt. Okay. House paid. Okay.

How long you've been married? You know, I'm not married. What is it you want to do with the rest of your life? I've still got to figure that out. I would like to travel some, you know, life events. somewhat recent life events have made me realize that what I should be doing or what I feel like I should be doing is spending time with people that I love and people that love me. And the whole, you know, pushing paper around is not a good use of my time anymore.

What do you do for a living? I'm an attorney. Okay. All right, cool. Do you have family, Steve, around? Yeah. Yeah, I've got a brother. and sister. Okay. That's great. Okay. Well, I'll tell you two things. One is, yes, you're in

excellent financial condition. You've done a wonderful job and you're able to retire. And if you pulled off 200 and let it grow by 150 a year, this would run in perpetuation. And I don't know who you're going to leave the 3.5, 3.5, 3.5, 3.0, 4 million. Oh, 4 and a half million, because it's going to keep growing, okay, because you're not going to use it all. So who you're going to leave all that too. So easily, this is a no-brainer equation, you're easily able to quit. Then I will also tell you, because I'm your age, I'm 65, I'm a little older, and that you have friends and I have friends who retirement wasn't good to them emotionally. Right. They didn't know what to do with themselves. So I would develop something I'm going to do. I don't care what it is,

and it doesn't have to be 80 hours a week. It doesn't have to be pushing paper. You do have a unique skill and license that you could probably do some things. It would be unbelievable blessing to some ministries and to some non-profits from an attorney's perspective and not strain you even a little bit, but give you something to lay your hand to the plow so you know you're still planting some corn in this earth. Right. And you just need something to do. Netflix doesn't cut it. Yeah, that's true. You're right. Yeah, that's going to be key for me, is having a plan. Yeah, so I think I would develop that before I pull the trigger on this.

But the question you called here for is mathematically, this is a no-brainer. Okay. It's 2x of a no-brainer. Right. Okay. That's good. Yeah. You're in great shape. Sit down with your financial coach or your financial advisor and talk about how you can draw 200K off of this and make sure it's invested in something that's averaging what the market's averaging, and you'll be just fine.

Well done, Steve. Yeah, man, that's amazing. It's amazing. And it's interesting. Whatever happens, you know, we didn't ask, but he said recent events have made me realize a while, and it's used those. Those are gifts, whatever that is, whether it was a tragedy or a gift or a blessing, whatever that thing was, that caused this kind of change of heart to a degree.

Listen to that. I mean, there's something in that for you. Yeah. it's um yeah yeah yeah it's exactly it's very smart to do that and you ought to be doing that at all ages as you go along uh but also when there's some when you have these certain uh appointments yeah got appointments that come across your path you need to listen to them you're right rachel very good jeffson uh wait a minute before we do that uh do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money but you're not getting anywhere you're not steve well maybe

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Rachel, Steve, and our caller before that trying to quit the warehouse job and going business with yourself. It is amazing that when you are resilient, and people are talking a lot about resilience these days, that things have been pretty easy for a long time around America. And when things are hard, people don't know what to do because they don't know how to do hard stuff. And so teach your kids to do hard stuff, boys and girls, and teach yourself to do hard stuff. Practice doing uncomfortable things because these are the actions of people that win. When you do that over a long period of time, take a job in a warehouse and you just get up and you go to work every day. and you do your work and you stick to it a lot of people don't have stick to it does that guy

had stick he could stuck with it for 20 freaking years when Steve has been an attorney and he just got it done he keeps putting money aside he builds up a three and a half million dollar nest egg then when you stop this resilience this pushing the scratching and clawing and and persevering sometimes I don't know what to do like I finally I got there yeah I went through the tape I won the race, or I finish the race. Now what? Yeah. And your brain and your life rhythm is so bent on resilience and scratching and clawing that it's hard to stop and take a step back and go, wait a minute, this worked. This landscaping thing's big enough. It's almost like the celebration of your hard work to enjoy it. Enjoy the fruits, right? It's like people that call in and they don't

know how to spend money because they've been saving their whole life. Same idea, right? It's a different muscle. But enjoy the fruits of what you've done. You really have to make a conscious thing. We see that a lot these days, a conscious effort to say, if I've been busting it to downshift and enjoy a little bit, it's a different gear. It's a different gear. But it's a good gear.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, number one, bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at AAA 825-5-225. So, Rachel, I was on Fox a little bit earlier, and we're talking about affordability for housing and this people not being able to afford a house and the sense of depression about that and so forth. And so I've done a little bit of discussion and analysis on that, and I want to let you guys out there know a couple things that we're thinking and we're seeing around here. There's kind of two sides to the coin. Side one of the coin is what could be done, okay? So house prices are affected always by supply and demand.

And we have had an inventory shortage, more buyers than sellers, for about 20 years. We've had more buyers than sellers. And any time you have a shortage of anything, the price goes up. Pretty simple economics, right? whether it's a Nintendo or a cabbage patch doll or a house, when there's a shortage of something, the price goes up. Too many people chasing two few goods kind of thing. So then we start thinking about, okay, what could you do to boost inventory?

Well, there are a couple of things that have been happening that have been harming inventory pretty considerably. And this is actually one of the few times you hear Dave say that the good. government could actually do something about this, okay? One is we've got large REITs, real estate investment trust and American corporations and Chinese corporations buying thousands and thousands and thousands of single-family homes and taking them off the market and putting them up for rent. I mean, like five or six hundred thousand in the past few years. It's a lot.

It's not just a few. So one thing you could do, and I'm really against limiting free enterprise, but when the basic use of a single family home is for a family to get a toehold in the marketplace and to build wealth and to have a stable place to live, when that's being affected by foreign organizations and by out of control capitalism, then, you know, you've got to put some limits on that. So some kind of a stoppage, stop that. Yeah. Another thing that's draining the market is Airbnb's. Tens of thousands of single-family homes, condos, co-ops, whatever. They're bought by people at unrealistic prices only because they're turning them into a hotel. And they're making tons of money, and people buy an 8, 10, 20, 15 of them at a time.

and that did not exist 20 years ago. Okay. And so some kind of a limitation, not necessarily a complete stopping of that, but limiting the number of units that go off the market so that a young couple getting married have a house to buy instead of it turning into an Airbnb. Because somebody bought it nothing down using some stupid TikTok guys formula to buy it. Okay. So some kind of limitation on that. that. But here's one. I was talking to Brian Bafini about this other day. He's the top real estate

cook. Oh, yeah. He's in this. He's really into this stuff. And he and I were having a discussion on the back porch about it. And he had such great ideas. He said, and I had not thought of this, I just thought it's brilliant. So it's been, I need to look it up when it was, but it's at least 20 years ago that the capital gains law on single family homes was changed. And it was a big deal. It used to be that you got a tax break a little bit on your personal residence, and they changed it massively with whatever it was 20 years ago and said, okay, married filing jointly, you can make up to a half million dollars. Single can you make up to $250,000, tax-free capital gain on your personal residence if you own it one year or more, okay? And that was a big breakthrough. Well, guess what, half a million dollars and much anymore?

And he said raising that to a million would take a bunch of boomers out of their home that would say, I would downsize, but I'm going to have to pay so stinking much tax that I'm not going to downsize. And see, if that level will sell, the next level sells to move up into that and the next level below that moves up, you create a domino down the price points. And so giving a million dollar exemption instead of a half million dollar exemption and even do it on all small ownership. So if you had two rentals and you wanted to dump them and you can make up to a million

dollars, you dump those back into the inventory pool for that sweet young couple to have a place to buy. But they don't want to get rid of that rental because the tax. Yeah, the amount of taxes. And there is no capital gains break on that except you're paying 15%. Or if you make over $400,000, you pay 20%. Right, right. So you get hammered if you've got a house.

Like I've got a bunch of houses. I've probably got 15 houses. Most of our real estate is not houses. but I got 15 or 20. And I would dump those stupid things because I got a lot of gain in them. But I'm not going to give the government a bunch of money. So instead, I'm going to have to do some kind of 1031,

roll them, and I'll get them back out of the market and turn them into commercial property. But most people won't do that. I actually know how to do it. Your husband and I will be doing that together. So, but if you gave people a tax break on the rentals that they own and attack up to a million dollars and on their personal residence, There'd be a bunch of houses going to market.

Interesting, yeah. And that would stimulate this inventory. So if we could start dumping in, and he brought up one other thing that's really technical, but it's true. So when you do development, if you develop a subdivision, if you're a developer, you buy a piece of land, and you put in a street, and you put in the utilities, and you go through all the stupid permitting, and you put up with a stupid city, and you go through all the stupid stuff about the trees and the stupid stuff about the creeks and all the stupid stuff you have to do to develop a subdivision, right? it's ridiculous okay when you finish with all that stupid stuff all those expenses you can't expense

they have to be depreciated over a large number of years so you could put 15 million dollars in a sewer system for a subdivision yeah and you don't get to write off 15 million dollars you get to write off a million dollars a year for 15 years or something like that and if you up that and he said if you just said they can expense it instead of depreciating it that would stimulate developers to start building subdivisions, which would stimulate. Yeah. You know, and so you could do that, but that's giving the evil businessman a tax break. Oh, my God, you liberals.

But anyway, but this is how you get the thing started. You actually get tax breaks to people to cause them to do this stuff. Quit. Let me keep my money and I'll go do stuff. Yeah. That's what investors say. And that's what people say when they're selling their house. I'm not selling this house.

I'm not giving the government all that money. It's my money. And if you say, okay, you could keep your money. It'll stimulate the stinking inventory. Yeah. The other side of the coin, though, and I'm almost used up all my time here, and I'm not going to take two segments on this, is we're increasingly realizing that the 25 and 26-year-old in America

has been screwed by the large banks and the car companies like never before, like no generation before. So if you're 25 or 26, you've been screwed by the big banks like you've never been screwed before. From the loans that they're having to take the... You know, you cannot buy a house when you have a $1,200 car payment, when you have a student loan that's $85,000, and you've got credit card debt coming out your ears. Record credit card debt, record card debt, record debt, debt, debt, and then you sit there and why, and you can't buy a house? Because you got victimized by these people.

You set yourself up for it. You signed up for the trip, baby. But you've been screwed by the city banks. What's in your wallet? The money that's going to Citibank should have been going to buy you a house. Hmm. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. The holidays are here, which means family time and giving back and remembering what the season is all.

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low prices, and easy, affordable holiday shopping, head to Amazon today. Good. How are you all today? Better than we deserve. What's up? Hey, I'm trying to figure out what it should do with my house to move along with my that snowball. I work out of town. I'm probably home in my house about 60 days a year. The rest of the time I'm in my camper. And so I'm trying to figure out if I should sell my house, rent it out to winters, or just keep it. You're single?

Yeah. No, I'm married with two kids. They're in the camper? What are you all doing in the camper? What's, is it travel? Is it work? Work. Yeah, I'm in the oil and gas industry. Okay, I'm sorry.

How much is the house worth? I think we could probably sell it for about 265. I think around, yeah, about 265, 270. What do you make a year? I take home 145. Okay. Part of me would have you keep it just to have a home, you know, a piece of real estate. How old are you?

I'm 32 and the last 31. Okay. So I think the big deal is we don't want to make a decision based on the snapshot that is the moment. Let's instead look at the film strip and see how this film's going to end. So what are you going to be doing in 10 years? well I'm hoping you know spend another three to five years in this industry and then go home with everything paid for is kind of my goal yeah and then at that time my kids would start school and the wife could go back yeah keep it and then yeah you keep it yeah you keep it okay

because that's what you that's why you're keeping it not for not for its current use you're keeping it for where this is going and you guys want to be in that area Jeff do you think if you were to if you were to forecast it okay it's definitely a good area. It's got a good school district. I've only bought it to begin with. Yeah. So you keep it even if, like if I sold it, I'd be able to pay off the other $40,000 in that, which I have that with a camper.

Yeah, you make $140,000. You can pay that off. Okay. So I figured I can pay everything else off besides the camper in 10 months. And the camper, it's got a lot of done on it, too, about $84,000. Okay. Yeah, that's going to be a problem. The camper is the expense.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a cost of you, of your career. Your career costs you money and the campers, you know, the loss of value in that thing, because those things go down in value, like, faster than anything on the planet. This is going to just like, you're like when you're done, you're going to be with Cousin Eddie. Yeah, so, well, I would just hate to, yeah, to sell an asset, like a house that's going to go up in value to pay for something that's going to go down in value. Yeah. So what about renting it?

Would you consider renting it? No, I don't think I would enjoy my house when I can get home and use it. And there might be some times that the family stays and you go out for two weeks and work and let them enjoy the stability of the house just to live in a freaking camper. Yeah, it's so nice to go home and have room and space. Amen. Even though the camper is big, they're not spacious. Yeah, this one's not going to roll away.

I mean, it's a, it matters. It matters. Yeah, I think it's going to be good for the psycho. psychology of your relationship with your wife and your kids for them to have a solid home base to touch base in and to rest a little and you can go out and do a few weeks and come back and occasionally they can go out with you in the camper and come back and then you just but you continue to bust it what you're doing is paying a price to get to a place what you're doing now you have no intention of doing the rest of your life correct yeah and the company

I'm with is based where I live so there's maybe an opportunity to go you know tell them out of the field and hopefully try to work from the home office there. I would start having those discussions and say three to five years, what classes do I need to take, what mentorship program do I need to be in to be able to come home in three to five years. I'm going to bust it. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. I'm not quitting.

I just need to, I need, this is my plan, and I want to make sure you guys have a plan too that matches my plan. Yes, sir. I start talking to your team, your leadership team about that because they know that you don't do this stuff forever yeah there's a shelf life on what you do right yes sir yeah i mean there there's not any 65 year olds much doing what you're doing yeah correct yeah that's what i mean so they're used to people churning out or churning up over time and i'd want to get i just want to get dialed in with that and get aligned with them on what i need to be doing to get that opportunity

so that I've got a place to go. Not next month, maybe not next year, but in three to five years, I'm going to be doing something different. And so let's be working that out. Yeah, I'd keep it, Jeff. It's a good question. It's an interesting question. I don't know if I've ever thought about that that way, but if he had said...

We'll get that with truck drivers that live in. Yeah, if he had said 15 years, I might have said sell it. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but three to five. Yeah. And the littles, they got a place to, they got a home base they can stay in. Yeah. That's cool.

Yep, yep, yep, yep. Michael's in San Diego. Hey, Michael. Hey, Dave, Rachel, how are you guys? Great. How can we help? I have a bit of a career question that I need advice on. I recently took a completely different career path

and a different job that pays about $30,000 more a year to try to help my wife and I get out of Baby Step 2 a little bit faster. Cool. But I'm noticing, yeah, yeah, I know we're excited, but I am noticing some pretty kind of severe red flags about this new position. It's a director of sales physician. Everybody in this department is new. The turnover is extremely high, and I already have people there that are very upset

that have only been there for about a month. What are they upset about? Well, my sales reps, they have zero leads. There's literally no one doing any kind of marketing. Were they promised late? maybe uh yeah to a certain degree it's an expectation that they're to make a certain amount of phone calls per day and they can't even meet those phone calls per day because there's nothing in our CRM tool for them to work on um so i'm concerned about like long term is this a new company

no this company's been around for a significant period of time uh they went through a transition recently this doesn't sound like an integrity problem it sounds like a competence problem I, yeah, I would agree. I'm just more concerned about like long-term longevity, right? Like with this career, should I stick around for a year or two kind of see what happens? Well, if I'm going to stick around, I'm going to work on the problems. And I'm going to get some help from leadership working on the problems. I'm not going to just sit here and watch the thing burn down.

No, no. And, of course, I agree with you, but I've already brought some things to leadership, and they're not really open to discussion. We don't have any leads in the CRM tool. You want these guys to make calls, and there's no calls for them to make, and leadership says I don't want to talk about it? Pretty much.

Why? That's weird. Do you want to lose your whole sales team? Yeah, again, it's very odd to me, and I've started looking at, like, who's doing the marketing, how's the marketing handled, can we get out into the community? I've started to ask these questions,

and the response I got was that's why your predecessor is no longer here. Because he asked questions? Is that what you meant? Is that what that meant? Yeah, about the leaves in particular. Yes. Okay, look for a job. It's bizarre.

Yeah, you need to get into the job. Okay. This one's not going to last. You're going to get fired. Yeah, my old job will have me back. No, I don't want you to go. take a pay cut i want you to make more money let's get a new job making 30 000 more than you're making now okay only this time it's working for competent leaders yeah well thank you guys

isn't that great is this the epic leadership fail or what this sounds like corporate america beyond belief the last guy that asked questions is no longer here we can't find his body and don't ask questions that'll get you killed what what kind of corporate crap is that That's just crap Is it a large company, Michael? Yes. It is, yeah. It's a large company.

They're large enough to absorb this level of crap. And that's one department that you having to be stuck in. Yeah, really. Good God, man. What an it. What a corporate idiot. Oh, the last guy that asked questions that doesn't work here anymore. Don't ask any questions.

Good God. That's classic. It's like office space. The holidays are supposed to be joyful, but they can also be expensive, between gifts, travel and about a thousand limited time offers, your budget can start feeling anything but merry. And that's why I love this. Boost Mobile helps you treat yourself and your wallet. Right now, you'll pay just $10 a month for your first two months.

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See boostmobile.com slash Ramsey for details. Ramsey Show Question of the day is sponsored by Why Refie? the past, but you can change your next move. Why Refi helps people with defaulted private student loans refinanced to a payment that fits their budget. Visit yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y. Refi.com slash Ramsey. Not in all states. All right, today's question comes from Greg in New York. My wife and I are approaching our 60s, debt-free, including our home, and have a net worth of over 2.5 million, including $125,000 in a high-yield savings. We bring home about $14,000 a month in our expenses are about $8,500. I plan to partially retire from my job soon by cutting back

my hours. My wife wants to keep working for a while, bringing home about $3,000 a month with benefits. We've agreed to go gazelle intense again by cutting expenses and living like poor college kids only this time enjoying home-cooked dinners instead of ramen noodles to help us with the transition. Does that make sense at this stage or are we in a good enough position to start shifting towards balance and enjoyments? I think you have some margin. I think you're okay. Yeah. You know, Greg. You guys need to redo your math. Okay. Two and a half million is the net worth and so it's not the actual number. But if you invest the two and a half million

in a decent growth stock mutual fund, you would make $250,000 a year. And then the, and not touch the two and a half million. Okay, now all of that's not invested because some of this is the paid for home. It's part of the net worth. So that's not the real number. But the point is you're not utilizing in this math

the income off of the nest egg that you've so diligently built. And so start taking some income off of your net worth. nest egg that you've so diligently built. And you don't have to touch the nest egg. Just take some of the income off of it. Have it invested decently in good mutual funds. And then whatever they make, throw that in the pot. And, you know, then $3,000 a month just becomes kind of cute that your wife is making. That's just kind of cute. It's unrealistic. So, no, you do not need to act like college kids. No, you don't need to go gazelle intense.

No, you're just fine. You're fine. You've got plenty of money. And you're making plenty of money. Well, yeah, I mean, if your expenses are $8,500 and you're making $20 a month, you're fine. Like, you're fine. Yeah, hello. Yeah. And, you know, he's not going to quit. He said, we're bringing home 14. She's making three. He's making 11. He's going to cut back his hours. They're probably still going to be at $8,500. Yeah, if not more. Income without touching the nest egg. That's right. Even if he goes half. So, yeah, you got plenty of room. You don't need to go gazelle intense. You're fine. You have transitioned, sir, from the acquisition mode to the enjoyment mode.

You've been building the nest egg now it's time for breakfast. Crack the nest egg and begin eating, sir. Oh, I was like, where's the breakfast now? What's the breakfast? Well, you've got to do something with these eggs, right? You've got to do something with the eggs. The golden eggs from the golden goose. That's right.

There you go. The goose is big fat and sassy. Let's get some of the eggs, okay? Enjoy, enjoy. Let's ride the eggs out. Good job, grad. Yeah, you didn't call me up with no money, and I'm trying to retire because I deserve to because I'm old. No, that was not what you called and said.

Way to go. Proud of you. Very well done. Jackie's in Kansas City. Hey, Jackie, how can we help? Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. How come we help? I'm calling because I'm preparing for a divorce after 20 years as a stay-at-home mom. And I need some clarity on how to navigate the finances, particularly with the house and assets. division. Wow. Sorry. What happened?

My husband has a sex addiction and it's been chronically unfaithful to me. I've tried to reconcile multiple times and this most recent time I'm done. Wow. I'm sorry, Jackie. That's awful. How old are the kiddos? I've got 19, 16, 14, and 10 all boys. Wow.

All right. And what does he make? make? He makes about 220 a year. And how much debt do you all have? Just 11,000 on his truck, which he's planning to keep. My van is paid for. What about the house? The house is approximately worth 550,000. We owe $143,000. And the payment is $1,800 a month with 2.5%. Okay. And what is he having a 401K? We have $160,000 in investments, and between two Roth IRAs, we have $270,000. Okay.

So 400 grand. Okay, $430. Okay. So my big question, Dave, is I don't have any income, so even assuming the mortgage would be difficult. I'm in grad school to become a counselor, and I don't have a sense of what alimony might be, but child support is around $1,800 to $2,000 a month, and so qualifying for a mortgage is going to be a bit tricky. So how far before you finish your degree? Two and a half years still. Okay. Well, apparently you've not been talking to an attorney yet. Not yet.

decided but I before I go an attorney and well the attorney's going to tell you better than I can in your state what your state law is going to afford you on this um so and of course it's also what you guys can mediate as well so a friend of mine that that used to do divorce counseling says divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction so this now is despite all of the pain the anger, the angst, the worry, despite all of the heartbreak, this is now a math problem. Yeah, that's what I was calling, yeah, because I think if I keep the house, that I'll be cash poor. I'll have great equity. Yeah.

Yeah, if he took this other stuff and you took the equity in the house, I'd be close to an even swap. And then he pays child support and alimony. That would not be unusual, but I'm not going to recommend that. Okay. so what i what we found is this um doing this for a long long time mom wants to hold mama bear wants to hold on to the house because the kids have been through enough and making them move and change schools is just too much because they feel like that's the last straw like the kids can't they're not resilient enough to make it through that actually they are because their their world's

already upside down the house and school is a minor part of their world really but in mama bear's mind, it often feels like it's a bigger part than it actually is. And so she takes the house that she can't afford to protect the children from the last little bit of pain that she can. And it becomes a curse rather than a blessing. And so that's what I don't want to do here. Yours is not super bad because you don't owe that much on it. Right. And so that makes it, and it's not super expensive. Yeah, 1800 bucks. Yeah. So, you know, if you could end up with a chunk of money and the house and, you know, like not an even split, in other words, you know, you might could make it.

Otherwise, you're going to think about, if you're going to try to keep the house, you're going to have to think about a career while you're finishing up your counseling. Yes. Yeah, that was part of the question. I'm willing to work during grad school, but when I get to my internship, I'll be working 35 to 40 hours a week, just an unpaid internship. And how long is that for? Is that a semester long?

That'll be a full year. And so taking an additional 30-ish hour. A lot of those, though, are paid. A lot of those are paid gigs. Yeah, this particular program, the school that I'm in, that's an unpaid position. Well, let's think about a different way of doing that then. Mm-hmm. Okay.

Because if you could get paid to be an intern, that changes the equation, too, a little for you. It doesn't change the whole thing, but it helps make the adjustments. So, yeah, you've got to, you don't let. the illusion that the house is providing more for the children that it actually is, put you in a position that it damages the next decade of their life and yours. Right, right. So cut it loose if you have to. But I don't know what you're going to be able to come out of this with.

And an $1,800 mortgage, though, you know, if you think about it's not bad. Renting and stuff could be around the side. I don't know. There's a part of me that you may be paying that regardless. But you've got to eat. Yeah. And you've got to pay lights and insurance. And you've got no money coming out.

So we've got to have some money coming in, and that's how we balance this out. Yeah, and the alimony could help if there's any of that, child support, yeah. 20 years, yeah, it's probably, depending on the state. I don't know. I'm sorry, Jackie. Finally, mortgage rates have dropped, and you know what that means? People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window, but you've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey way.

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NMLSID 1591, NMLS ConsumerExist.org, Eagle Housing Lender. sick and tired of working so hard, but not getting anywhere. Feel like a rat in a wheel? Well, that's normal, but normal's broke. You don't have to live that way. Our every dollar budget app helps you find extra money every month and build you a personalized plan to beat debt and bill wealth. In just 15 minutes, you'll find thousands in hidden margin.

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about 190 in debt, and I think it's accumulating still. Recently lost my job in beginning of October and, you know, just trying to determine if, you know, with this amount of debt, if bankruptcy is the route as opposed to, you know, going deeper in debt while waiting for additional forms of income. Why would you go into debt while waiting on additional forms of income? Why don't you just go get something to do right now, like it's Christmas time, lift boxes for FedEx and eat? Oh, 1,000% If they were to call me tomorrow

Based off the application That was submitted last week, I would do it But as it stands as today There's no No retail part-time temporary rolls calling back at the moment That's strange

Okay What's the 190 in debt? What does it consist of? Yeah, so it's about 140, 150 in student office loans, about 20 in credit card debt, and about 30 from a personal loan. Okay. Got bad news for you.

Yeah, the student loans aren't bankruptable. So it would only, yeah, so 50 of that would only be wiped away in a bankruptcy. And that's not that, you can probably clear that. Is that all that stuff, the 50 behind? Are you behind on all of it? Yes, I'm current, but still a little bit. But still a little bit, the credit card usage was high. And so I did kind of take heed to some of the advice that I heard a while back on your show,

which was to put, you know, the higher-in amounts on auto-pay for minimal payments just to keep it active while trying to chop away at the smaller ones. And I was doing that for a while, but then I had a series of job losses. So prior to the job that was just laid off. from in October. What were you laid off from in October? I was a fundraiser, so a director of development for a non-for-profit. Why were you laid off? There was a leadership change, and so the board of directors made some decisions on leadership roles. Okay, and why did you lose the other jobs? I'm getting laid off, so this was my

My traditional career background is in the advertising industry. And, you know, it's high turnover in that, high service turnover in that industry. And my client didn't renew with the agency, and so the agency couldn't afford to keep me on salary. Are you married? No, but I am engaged with two children. Okay. One and five. Okay.

Now, bankruptcy doesn't solve your problem. you have a career crisis you don't have a debt crisis you got a lot of debt but the credit is not what's killing you it's so you have no income correct and so um you know i don't want to treat the wrong problem um the real problem the core problem is income and consistent income and at the moment any income and uh that's your core issue so that's what i want to spend all of my calories on and if you just took all of the debt payments and threw them in the trash and didn't pay them for two months, that's not the end of the world. You can get right back up once you start making some money again. What were you making at the last gig?

100,000. Yeah, okay. And no gig prior to that was 165. Yeah. So I was thinking you were a six-figure guy just listening to you. So I think you will be again. I just don't know when and I don't know. what and at this moment it feels scary and uncertain but no you're not bankrupt you're just

unemployed and so we got to solve that and and by the way the but like rachel said that the bulk of your debt is not bankruptable anyway and if you can make 100 150 000 a year it'd be silly to file bankruptcy on 50 grand because that's the essence of what you'd be doing follow me yeah i do i do appreciate that yeah so tell you what hang on i'm gonna um i'm gonna connect you with ken coleman's uh book uh finding the work you're wired to do and the proximity principle book uh which is a really good book on landing a position of some kind and um the best thing you can do is what you've been trying to do it sounds like legitimately and i do believe you is to land something immediately just to get your hands you

hand to something instead of sitting and worrying. Yeah, and with the job market, even listening to Ken, just putting in applications online really isn't going far these days. So it's, it is going in person, finding someone that works somewhere that knows an open position. So like there's some strategy, because it is. The job market's tough these days. I mean, I mean, I've, you know, the retail side, I'm not sure. But when it comes to like a full on career, like what you're talking about, it takes more than just an application online or finding, you know, a LinkedIn thing. Yeah, and I'm not even sure to get on with FedEx, just filling out the applications enough. I think I'm going to bother some people over there and try to get over, you know, I'm ready to start today.

You ready start? Let's go. And what do you got to do? I mean, they probably need somebody today. I mean, it's Black Friday. It's the, you know, everything's moving again. So retail's not running slow. Sales are not bad.

So, you know, I don't know where they're all going, but sales are not bad. So interesting, very interesting. Josh is in Ohio. Hey, Josh, how are you? Doing good. How are you guys? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I'm going to receive $400,000 roughly next summer from my dad's farm being sold. I want to treat this money with wisdom and not blow it. What's the best way to use a lump sum like this to build stability, invest wisely, and secure my future? Good for you. He passed away back in 2019. I'm sorry. I think I had. How much debt do you have, Josh?

I have $18,000 between two cars, credit card and student loans. And then I have multiple medical bills. I'm not exactly sure what those equal, I guess, around 20,000. Okay, so 40,000 clears your debts. Right? Yes. Okay.

You own a home? No, we rent. Okay. All right. How old are you, Josh? 30. What do you make? Roughly $77,000 a year.

I drive a truck, so it's a little different each year. Okay. So what I would do is pay off your debts, build an emergency fund, and I would set the rest of it aside in a mutual fund and forget that you have it. Get with a Ramsey SmartVestor Pro. And it sounds like you need about 50,000 out of this. So put about 350 in a mutual fund and just let it sit there and pretend like you don't have it. And let it sit there and grow a little bit. And you keep working with no debt payments.

I want you to start saving money. And no debt payments, I want you to get on a detailed written budget with your wife and use this opportunity to change you, not have the money change everything. It's not enough money to fix your life. It's a lot of money. it's more than you've ever seen, but it's not enough to make it where you don't have to do anything. You've got to get, you got to be smart from this point forward. As you said, wise. And so I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. And I want you guys to

work that system. Yeah, without the 400, I think that's really important because, you know, used to credit cards, car payments, like that's the norm. And when you just wipe it out, there's no emotional sacrifice at that point. Right. Right. So you guys have to have a standard of living that you can live on with your income and you guys feel good about creating these new money habits. We're not borrowing money anymore. Yep. And then if you choose to use that money, you know, three years down the road to buy a house or to use it for your life, you have good money habits in place. So working on your money habits is going to be really, really important, Josh. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio.

Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host. Open phones at AAA 825-5-2-2-25. Elizabeth is in Arkansas. Hi, Elizabeth. How are you? Hey, Dave and Rachel. Hey, what's up?

Okay, so I am a newly single mother of seven children in the process of getting a divorce. And I do not make enough money to survive, and I need to know what to do next. my gosh where are you guys in the divorce process we have only just had one hearing about custody um is he writing checks no why i have not received a dime why because he doesn't think that he should it's not up to him it's up to your attorney to get off his butt and talk to the judge about sending the woman with seven children some money yeah well right now we're having having the kids half and half. I don't care.

I get him a week. Yeah. He needs to be writing checks to you in any state. Yeah. Was your attorney a wuss or not smart? I'm beginning to wonder. But I don't have the funds to get anyone else at this point. Oh, you need to pick up the phone and chew their ass.

Yeah. can you say that i just said that i mean i got a lady with seven children that's not getting supported by her dead beat as soon to be x and the attorney's sitting on their thumb i can't think of anything that makes me matter than attorneys who sit on their thumbs yeah and so um currently i have um i have six thousand five hundred and fifty dollars in student loans. That's what I was able to get that. I graduated this summer with an EMT license and I got that so I could move out. How old are the kids? How old are your children? 8 to 15, two sets of twins. When are you starting the EMT gig? Well, there is a possible opening in January,

but again, because of the situation with the kids, it's going to be really. really difficult for me to get a like a vanilla EMT job because it's usually 48 on 96 off and I don't I want I have the kids I have to you know I think it's very doable the 48 you're on on him right but right but again he's he's been very I don't care what he wants you seem to think he has control of this he has no control There are these neat things called laws when your attorney actually bows up and acts like an attorney. Mm-hmm. Now, definitely, listen, not unusual at all for one of the spouses in a divorce that has child has co-care custody with their children to be working for the fire department of the EMT and have 48 on 96 off.

That's a fairly normal rhythm. And to put the child care, the child custody arrangement to fit that. rhythm is not unusual at all. It's done every day in divorce courts in America. Okay. All right. When somebody has an attorney. Yeah. God. Okay. So, yeah, so this guy, this guy is a, you're soon to be X is a control freak overbearing bully, isn't he? Yeah. And has been for how long? 17 of our 18 years okay because you twice in the conversation already gave him way more power than he actually has yeah and two times i corrected john it you're following me he really doesn't have i mean this is a

yeah this guy's um he's so neutered he doesn't even know it he's got seven freaking children the judge is going to mop the floor with him assuming your attorney actually shows up for work yeah okay so yeah this is Elizabeth do you have the ability to get someone else if you need to be him walking in front of a judge yeah I'm sorry Rachel what was that do you have the ability to find someone new if you needed legal counsel that's different for your sake I don't think so I actually had to borrow money from my daughter to be able to pay the retainer Um, and I'm, I'm currently making $204 weekly, um, doing what?

Just, in home care. I do in home care and then I, when I can, I do substitute teaching. Um, and that pays $91 a day. And he's not taking care of the kids at all. He's not doing any of the child custody right now at all. Well, he's, he's got the kids every other week with the exception of one of my oldest twins. Um, she's at my house every week. Okay.

Um, so. So you could be working that entire week for a lot more than 204. Right. And you need to be. But the problem is, is the reason that my daughter is at our house is because she was suicidal. And going to her dad's was making it worse. Oh, I can imagine. I can imagine.

Is she not safe at your house? Yes. Okay. Then go work the week that he's. The rest of the kids are gone. You go to work that week. Yeah. You got to.

You've got to create some money. She is she is not supposed to be left alone yet. So that's been a challenge with that. But I have been working while they're at Lashy. You have family in the area? They're over an hour away. My mother is a widow. She happened to work to survive herself.

And then I have siblings, but basically everybody is just working paycheck to paycheck. And I don't want to be that anymore. Well, you are right now. You're just trying to eat. So Bubba needs to start writing some checks to you. You need to get some money on the weeks that the kids are gone. And if she needs to go stay with her grandmother that week, so somebody's watching the teenager, that's cool. Right.

She wouldn't be able to. She's in school, though. and um not right now she's in christmas right now well yeah that's in a week and a half i know um christmas break yeah so i mean you've got to create some income two hundred and four dollars i don't know what are you eating on we we did qualify for food stamps and so that food stamps is taking care of the food um uh some friends from church stepped up and helped out with some stuff that has helped cover gas because I'm driving the kids back and forth to their school. And what's he saying, your ex, soon-to-be-X?

He's blaming me for everything. Yeah. So, listen, I want you to hang up and I want you to call your attorney and say, if I don't start getting some checks immediately out of this guy to feed these seven children, we're over here on freaking food stamps, and he has seven children, he's paying nothing. you're not doing your job. Yeah, okay. Right now.

All right. Do your job. I'm sorry. And hey, hold on the line. Christian's going to pick up. We have Aldi gift cards. Elizabeth, they're one of our sponsors. And so we'll hook you up with some of those.

Yeah, we'll get you some groceries going, kiddo. Oh, I'm so sorry. Man, God, that pisses me off. Many of you Many of you listen to the Ramsey show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that.

If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt, and build wealth. And you can too. But you've got to have a game plan, and that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash start now, take the free quiz, and get your free step-by-step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to ramsysolutions.com slash start now. Cyber Monday week. How is a Monday a week?

I'm so confused. Shopping week. Cyber Monday week. Tis the season. Deals aren't over yet. We've extended the sale. It's longer than a week. We love it.

Sales, $12 hardcover books, $12 assessments, $12. $12 questions for humans, decks, and $6.99 for audiobooks and ebooks. This does end at the end of the week. Sunday. 127. Ramsey Solutions.com slash store or click the link in the description, boys and girls. Jonah Beach is on the line. Jana is calling.

Hi, Jana. How are you? Hi, Dave and Rachel. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So, my question is, is my, I'm 46. My husband is 43, and we have nothing saved for retirement.

And we don't own a house. Well, correction, we own a house, but it's a rental right now. and we're thinking of selling it. And then my husband has about $100,000 and a TSP. Other than that, we have nothing saved, and I'm a little nervous. Well, I wouldn't be panicked, but I would be concerned. Okay, because you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. I'd be concerned about that.

But 46, I mean, you know, you got 20 years. You'll be okay. If you get your crap together, are you going to do it? Absolutely. So what's the house? I don't understand you have a rental house, but you don't live in it? Correct. It was part of, we live in Daytona Beach.

I know, but I mean, where do you, what's your house? So we are renting. Why? Because my husband had a job relocation. Oh, okay. To Daytona Beach. Where's the rental house? Why didn't you sell the other house?

My husband has some sentimental issues. It was his first house that he ever bought, and he just didn't want to get rid of it. It actually was a... He should get rid of that and his old girlfriend's phone number, both. Seriously. Get rid of the house. That's stupid. There's a house I bought in college.

I love the house. Oh, come on. Get rid of the house. It's not a blessing to your family. How much could you get for it, Jana? You're renting now because you own a rental. property right yeah sell it what's it worth it's uh we just had an appraisal done on it um it's 313 and what do you owe on it 200 great sell it buy you a house in Daytona beach 15 year fix

where the payments no more than a fourth year take-home pay have you got other debt um yeah so we're on baby step two right now we're finishing it this month great good So if you finish Baby Step 2 and you sell this house and you buy a house with that money and then you have an emergency fund, you're on to Baby Step 4, right? Right. Boom. I love this. And what's your household income?

Together. Well, my income kind of fluctuates a little bit. Yeah, but I mean, what do you make a year? What do you all make a year? About 165 to 185. Okay. If you say 15% from 46 to 66 of 1. $150,000, you're going to be multi-millionaires.

Jana? Okay. If you say 15% in Baby Step 4, you said you knew what Baby Step 2 is, you know what Baby Step 4 is, right? Which is around $30,000 a year. $30,000 a year for the next 20 years, you're going to be multi-millionaires. Okay. Pretty cool. Pretty cool.

I'm going to get... You know, put it in there? Yeah, I think we should. Let's get the exact number, but, I mean, I can't do 40 years in my head, but the, I'm not funny. It's probably, okay, I'll give you my guess, three and a half million. Okay. I'm going to do 43, because that's you, Jana, right? Now, she's 46.

No, she's 43? I'm 46. Oh, who's 43? I'm 46, my husband. To 66, so we're going to do 40, just do 40 years at, at, at, at $3,000 a month? $2,500 a month. $3,000. $2,500 a month.

See what you get. We're going to go 12%. People are going to get mad about that. That's all. Get mad. 4.1 million. Ah, our left over and bad. It's a good guess, Dave.

Did you get that, though, Jana? It's pretty good. So our leftover income is right now, and that's, once we're done in this month, will be $7,415. And 72 cents. So we only need like $4,000 to live on. You need $2,500 a month going in. into retirement in baby step four.

Baby step five is you need to save some towards kids' college. Baby step six is you need to pay off this house, I told you to go by. And that is working until 67, by the way. That was the number in the investment calculator. But all that to say, you guys are going to be great. You guys are going to be great. You have to start making some grown-up moves and keeping a house for sentimental value.

It's not one of them. You know what I mean? Like, you guys kind of have to face reality too, right, Jana? I mean, like, he needs to, yeah, he needs to. to feel that and see that. Yeah, dump it, and you guys get you a house bought and start working this plan. You're doing great. It's going to work.

And you know what's interesting? Let's go back to the beginning of this call. Did I not hear a little bit of panic and emotion in your voice that you were going to retire on Alpo? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sitting here going, don't need to panic. What's making you emotional? What's going on?

I mean, I just. I'm frustrated because up until this point, we've been paying $7,500 a month for my mom to be in an assisted living, and she blew her entire retirement and said $500,000 across seas to a Nigerian prince of some sort. Oh, my gosh. And so I am sitting here supporting her, and it's frustrating to me, and then I look at her and I look at me in the mirror. I'm like, you're going to be just like her. No, you're not, Jana. No, you're not. Why would you be like her?

You just figured out that's a dumb idea. You're not going to send half a million dollars. To a notgerian prince. Jana, say that to yourself. I am not going to send half a million dollars. You know, you're not making the same decisions your mom made. Already. You guys are already working your way out of debt.

You're already gaining financial grounds. Let me tell you what normally happens where a family is dysfunctional with money. Okay. Okay. The kid goes the other way too far. Not the same way. Very few people follow in their and their broke parents' footsteps. They go the other direction and oftentimes too far where it's dysfunctional. And that's in Rachel's book, know yourself, know your money. Yeah, which hasn't really happened for, it's not like they're over savers. They're not, you know what I mean? A lot of people are. They are. If they grow up and their parents are dysfunction, very much so.

They don't heal from that and they go bananas. But in Jana, yeah, and in Jana's case. Yeah, Jana, all you've got to do is just follow the baby steps. You're not even going to be close to your mother. Even if it was half of what we just pulled out, that's $2 million at retirement. You're fine. You guys are going to be great. You really are. You got to make some moves.

Stay away from the Nigerian prince. Yeah. Oh, no. Man, they prey on the elderly, though. I'm not kidding you. That is like the scam of the century. That's been around since before the internet. No, it was like the forward, the forward, the forward.

We used to get it in the male, snail mail. I used to get the Nigerian prince offer in the male snail mail before there was email, before there was an internet. And the worst is the dating catfish stuff happening, of people in a relationship with someone. I never understood why anybody wanted to date a catfish. I'm so confused. Oh, my gosh. Such a boomer. Man, we've getting some interesting ones on here.

Jade sniffed one out the other day on the air. Yeah, that she had never even met the guy, right? The caller. She's getting ready to send her 401k to this dude and put it in stupid Bitcoin. And then we're like, so how many times have you all actually, oh, I've never actually met him? I'm like, oh, catfish, catfish. Oh, whoa, wow, wow. Oh, man.

So bad. Oh, man. You're not her, Jana. Jana, you're going to be great. You really are. Listen, if your family puts the fun and dysfunction boys and girls, it just means you don't have to be that. That's all it means. You don't have to, you don't have to follow it.

I know it's scary. That is. That's terrifying. It's terrifying. And just the bird is. that you're going to be for your kid right like you feel all of that and so because of that that's part of the motivation to change so you can change your family tree you're different you're a different branch you're creating something completely new for your kids and it's beautiful

wonderful and you have time you have time the passion that you have to not be that use that passion to work this system and then you won't be that it's that simple it really is You spend hours You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would.

Find what you need at ramsysolutions.com slash insurance. Rob is in Syracuse. Hey, Rob. How are you? I'm good. Thanks. Good. How can we help?

I was listening to you on Sage Steel, and I didn't realize that you had had a bankruptcy in your past. And it got me thinking, do you think about the same things I do? And it was 20 years ago. We were a young couple. And I just think about the debt that was discharged, and I keep a list, and I just wonder if you ever think about that, about whether I know I'm never going to pay it back because they're never going to take it, but I just was wondering if it was something that you or anybody else thinks about. Yeah, people think about it because they're people of honor, and the people of honor signed a debt, and they know they owed it, and the law says, according to bankruptcy, that you don't know it anymore. but your heart still is tender to that. And so all that means is you're a good person.

Now, obsessing about it and continuing to worry about it, that's, I wouldn't do that. I instead would just accept grace, move on. And, you know, you can think about the time I, you know, when I was 16 years old, I got the car keys the first night. I got my driver's license. I went to the pizza up, my dad's pickup, and the first thing I did is I backed into a guy's Corvette. Now, I had to pay for that and fix it, obviously, and my dad did.

Nobody was happy. Not the Corvette guy, not my dad, not me. Nobody was happy in the equation. But I don't think about that all the time. It's an interesting scar because it was really traumatic the first night you got your license, right? But it's also, you know, I was a 16-year-old kid, you know. Everybody makes mistakes. I just happen to do it with a pickup in a Corvette.

But, you know, move on, Dave. Don't sit up at night and worry about that. So you don't want to take it too far, but to have a tender heart towards it just means you're a good person. In my case, mine manifested itself with the bankruptcy stuff years later. About 10 years after we filed bankruptcy, we were making substantial money again. And I woke up in the middle of the night with a very vivid dream, and I felt very, very sure God was telling me to go back and pay it back. and I told my wife and she said absolutely not those people pissed all over us we're not giving them a dime because they man we had some jerks we dealt with we had some people that were

did all kinds of illegal stuff all kinds of stuff it was our fault we caused it but man it was she's like no way and I'm like yeah way I'm pretty sure this was God and I'm pretty sure we need to do this no we're not doing that so two years went by and I finally we were by then we're making even more money and the amount of the bankruptcy was fairly small in comparison and I'm like Sharon we're supposed to do this I really want to go back and do this I've got the money and she said no we actually sat down and met with our pastor in a marriage counseling session over it because we were arguing about it and couldn't get a resolution and I was very sure and so we ended up she she acquiesced and I said look we spend more than this

on other stuff it's what I think we're supposed to do it's not she says not the money it's the principal I know but we needed it so anyway she found finally went along with it and we did go back and it was a real pain 12, 13 years after the bankruptcy to get some banker who it's not his money. They don't have a way to put it on the books because it's off the books. And we had, it was actually a lot of work to get these people to take money. It was crazy. Yes, that's what I was thinking about. Yeah. I was like, who's going to, who's going to. Yeah. I mean, if you found an individual that was on

there like, you know, somebody like that, they're like, oh, yeah, I'll take the money. And I had a few of those. But, and then one guy's like, oh, don't worry about it. I'm like, yeah, I'm worried about it. I need to do this. And he's like, okay, and send me a check. So I did. And then most people were that way, but then some of these banks, they were just morons, but the banks are. So funny. They're morons. So, but I also don't tell that story very often, Rob, because it sounds like a humble brag for one thing. And the other thing is I don't want to put it forth as a principle that I believe that everyone should go back and do that. I don't think everyone should go back and do that. I think I was told to, and it's probably, it's easy to surmise I was told to because I'm in this position. And so I needed to be, I needed to have a little bit, you know, be a little bit more above reproach, so to speak. But even then, I don't tell people. And so I'm often, you know, the haters on the internet are like, Dave Ramsey filed bankruptcy. He's a, he's a thief. He stole the money. and they don't even know I went back and paid it. And I don't go into the comment section and go,

yes, I did. Just let it go. Screw it, you know. But so I would not impose that upon you legalistically is what I'm saying. Actually, I really, I'm glad I heard the story, but I really wanted to let you know that it was a lot of your principles when I reading back 20 some years ago after filing bankruptcy that got me back on track. Good.

Good, praise God. That's why we're here, man. Hey, that's a great question. It's a good discussion. And I don't know if I would keep a list anymore. He said he keeps a list of it, you know. Unless you feel that you want to pay it back for something. Some kind of spiritual direction or, because honestly, I was not thinking about it.

And I just, you know, what 10 times in your life you have a dream that's that vivid that wakes you up and you can't go back to sleep. And I'm sitting at my computer and I wrote down the details of the dream. I've got it in the file in an email. to myself or in a word document to myself because it was that vivid. And that doesn't happen that often. I dream every night and I don't have any idea what it is. Right, right. But so I really felt like that's what it was.

But I'm not sure. I'll know when I get to heaven for sure. But, and it's not why I'll get to heaven either, by the way. Right. Right. So, but the prompting and leading that was something bigger than you to do something. And that could be anything in life. Yeah. And that's not for everyone's story, to your point. But it's very interesting with bankruptcy that on the one end of the spectrum, there are people that are very flipping about it.

It's like, ah, I'll just fall bankruptcy. I don't know that. They feel no obligation. Yeah. And on the other end of the spectrum, you've got Rob still keeping a list. 20 years later. 20 years later. So, yeah, I'd probably either pay it back or burn the list.

Mm-hmm. You need to get it off your plate. One side or the other. Get off your plate and quit having it is hanging back there in the back of your head. Let's move on to something else. and I'm perfectly fine with you walking in grace and just let it go. Perfectly fine with that. Again, I'm not going to take my story and impugn that as a pharicidical principle on everyone else

because I don't think that's what I was getting. That was not the sense I had from it. It was a very nuanced individual situation. Madeline is in Chicago. Hey, Madeline, what's up? Hi. Hey, how can I help? So I just graduated in May from college, and my student loan payments will start up in January.

It's $22,000 in debt, and then I also have $2,500 in credit card debt. So my question with the loans is they all have different interest rates, subsidized versus unsubsidized, and just the best way to go about paying those effectively. How many do you have? It's 10 different loans. Wow, that's a little ones. Okay. So a couple of 2,000 here and there. List them smallest to largest.

Okay. Pay minimum payments on everything except the little one and attack the little one as fast as you can. And throw that credit card dead in there, too. Is the credit cards multiple credit cards? Just one credit card. Okay. Yeah, so put the $2,500 credit card in that snowball. You probably have some student loans smaller than that.

Yeah. Yeah. So you're going to do those first. You're going to cut up. the credit card, by the way, quite using a stupid thing. I'm not kidding. That wasn't funny. No. I've got it. Jamadlin, are you working?

Yeah, I am. I have a part-time remote job, and then I also work as a waitress. Okay. How much do you bring in a month? Monthly, I'm bringing in about $5,000. Good. Wow, good for you. And if you can live on nothing and drop three grand on that, you're going to be done in no time. You'll be done by next Christmas. Awesome. Yeah.

I mean, you've got $25,000, so $2,000 a month, you're done by Christmas next year. And that includes if you don't get a full-time job making more, you know. What's your degree in? Yeah, that would be my goal. Marketing. Oh, good. Oh, yeah, you'll get a better job than that. Yeah, go get a big job and knock it out even before that.

But I want you done by Christmas. Say, Christmas is my date. it out loud. Christmas is my date. All right. Knock it out, kiddo. You got this. Good job, Madeline.

Hang on. We're going to send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover book to show you how to do it. Hey, guys, it's here, our Cyber Monday sale. And you can pick up our best-selling books like Baby Steps Millionaires for only $12. Or pick up a set of our Questions for Humans cards. That way, at your next gathering, you can put down the screens and have amazing conversations instead. And they're just $12. Plus, some of our best-selling digital products like our audiobooks are as low as $6.99.

Seriously, guys, gifts like these change people's lives. And that's always a good deal. Visit ramsysolutions.com slash store. Our scripture of the day, Romans 154, for, for everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the scriptures and the encouragement they provide, we might have hope. Jim Rhone said formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune. Sam is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Sam, how are you?

Hey, I'm actually in Wilson, North Carolina. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? I'm newly engaged and we've had a discussion me and my now fiance I've had a discussion about buying a house my grandfather's house he just passed away and my family is thinking about selling it

they're going to keep it in the family they're thinking about selling it for tax value I really like the house she's not really sure about the location and that was my first question and the other question would be how much money do I need to save to buy a house okay uh how old are you Sam I am I just turned 26 okay and what do you make a year uh 62,000 what's your fiancé make a year

uh 54 cool and um when will you all be getting married um I haven't set a date we're getting through the holidays but probably sometime in 27 okay all right and um what were your grandfather's house cost if you were to buy it uh tax value just under 250,000 dollars like 246 or 247 I think what do you think the thing's really worth um I looked it up on Zillow and all the other websites and it's listed for 340 to 360 so I feel like I'll be gaining a little bit yeah and um okay and do you have any money um a little to none I mean I've got, I've started up with Financial Peace University. I've started my nest egg kind of adding to it every month.

I've got around $27, $2,800 saved up in a money market account for the credit union. And you're out of debt? Well, I've got $4,000 worth of debt, paying that off. That ring hadn't even made one payment on it yet. I intend on paying that off before the end of the year. This year or next? This year. So in the next couple weeks?

Yes. Okay, that's good. All right. So you'll be debt-free and then you'll start saving. When are you required to close on your grandfather's house? Could you rent it for a year while you save up some money? Yes, I can. That is also another option.

So right now it's... Okay, now here's the last question. What happens when you want to sell the house? I would sell it back to my mom or to my family. What if they can't buy it? Do you have to sell it at tax value then, or can you sell it for full price? I would sell it to them for whatever I bought it for. Then don't buy it.

Yeah, it's not a good investment. No, don't buy it. Because you can't make any money on it. Right. If you buy a house for $200,000 or $300,000 and 10 years from now, you have to sell it. it for two or three hundred thousand dollars that was a bad deal right it needs to go up in value so unless the family can all agree sam that you know by the time you want to sell it you can sell it for what it's worth yeah that you can sell it for what it's worth or you can sell it outside the family if

no one wants it for what it's worth either yeah it's kind of like a first right of refusal i'd give them first right of refusal but if they don't want to buy it for what it's worth i mean the thing could be worth a million dollars in a few years yeah and i mean his own family land we got it's 650 acres, and there's a bunch of barns. You don't get 650 acres with this, though. No, no, no. I get an acre, and then I get some barns that are actually on the farm. Yeah, you don't get anything.

You get an acre of land and a house. The rest of it is just you have access to, which, by the way, if you drive over there, you'd have access to it anyway. You don't have to live there to have access to that. Right. So, no, that's not reality. I don't think this is a good idea, because I think you're, going to get trapped.

Thank you. That's how I've been kind of feeling. Yeah, I think the family has... And your fiancé has a good, you know, gut instinct about her too, you know, that she's a little bit like, I don't know about the family thing and the location and all of it. When you guys buy your first house, Sam, you want it to be a win. You want it to be a fun experience, something that you guys both agree on. And it's kind of that first big purchase as a married couple and starting it with any level

of hesitation or baggage or not excitement. It just kind of puts a weight. And if I owned a farm with a house in the corner of it like your mom and your aunt do, I really wouldn't want it to get outside the family. So I understand their motivation. That makes sense. But it doesn't, it's not a good deal for Sam and his new bride is the problem. And so your mom's not being unreasonable with her request,

but it puts you in a position where you guys can't make a good deal out of it for the two of you. So it's just that they're, what they need. need from it and what you need from it are too far apart. Yep. And it's not that either one's wrong or anybody's bad or anything like that. It's not stupid or something like that. It's just, it just doesn't fit your life. And really, I wouldn't, if I'm them, I don't want you to be able to sell the thing later.

Right. You know, that doesn't. I mean, I've got some properties. I don't want the corner of it gone. You know, I've got some properties I bought the corner in and I don't want to sell it again, you know, that kind of thing. So, no, I don't, I can understand that. That makes sense.

But if I were you two, I think it's a lot cleaner for the two of you. So for the family having this house. If you wanted to rent it for a year or two and while you're saving up money to buy, then that would be great. Because the more money you put down, of course, the faster you can pay it off. Alyssa is in Albuquerque. Hey, Alyssa, what's up? Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. How can we help? So just a tiny backstory is. When I was dating my husband, who I've now been married to for 15 years, his mother used to tell me that she was running out of money, that they were going to be poor soon because she was a trust fund child, and they were going to run out of money. So before my husband and I got married, I asked him, you know,

what does this mean for us? And he said, nothing. My parents are going to take care of their finances themselves. They're going to handle it. that we will not, this will not impact us, which I should have known was not true. Fast forward 15 years, his parents are out of money. They own their home outright. It's a small property, probably worth $500,000.

And then they also have another small piece of land in the mountains with a cabin on it. That's just a shell of a building, probably worth $80,000. But they do not receive enough income. to live. They received maybe $900 from Social Security. How old are they? They never worked much. They are 85. My mother-in-law is 85 and my father-in-law's set or he's 80, about 80. We have gone, yes, we have gone and built them a casita on their house so they could get some rental income. And that brings in about $1,000 a month. But they still are cannot live and it's basically medical bills um and things like that so we have now

started paying their utilities and their health insurance they need to sell the house exactly this so so i keep telling my so my so i tell my husband what about i know you don't i know most people don't like this but a reverse mortgage no they don't need to do a reverse mortgage they need to sell the house. They need to sell the land in the mountain and they need to sell the house and they need to buy a $200,000 one bedroom condo. Okay. And that'll give them $300,000, $400,000 to live off of. How's their health? Not good. No, not good. Okay. So it's going to, yeah, yeah. So it's not like another, they're not going to be a hundred probably. I don't think so. I mean, I, you know, who knows? Who knows? God willing. But, um, but not, not well,

my mother-in-law's had a heart attack, she's had a mini stroke, and she goes, she rides the ambulance to the emergency room once a month, thus her medical bills continue to grow. Yeah, they need to get a sweet little one-bedroom, a condo in an area that's very nice and peaceful, and they need to sell off all their stuff, and then you sell off the land, and they need to sell off the house, because they didn't save. And no, you guys don't need to support them. Your husband needs to stop this. The reason he wants to do this is because he wants to inherit this property. I don't want to inherit the property.

It's not that fancy. No, thank you. And you don't want a property with reverse mortgage on it. No. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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