The Ramsey Show - Skip the Scams, Build Real Wealth

Starting point is 00:00:00 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Walshaw, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality. She's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-8255-225, Tanner's in Oklahoma City. Hey Tanner, what's up? Hi Mr. Ramsey, how's it going? Better than I deserve, how can I help? I'm in some, I'm dealing with some family law issues and it's kind of taken over half of every one of my paychecks and And I'm kind of dealing with a dilemma

Starting point is 00:01:07 where I'm trying to find a balance between trying to do what's right for my kids and be financially responsible at the same time. Can you elaborate a little bit? What are you going through? So sure, I had a son when I was 22, still in college, and I later divorced my wife that I had that son with. Then shortly before I graduated, I had a girlfriend and we got pregnant.

Starting point is 00:01:41 She disappeared on me while we were pregnant. She disappeared on me while we were pregnant. Okay. And shortly after I were right before I was about to graduate, you know, every month I was having to spend several hundred dollars towards attorney's fees to get, you know, to try to find her. That yes, originally. Okay. So you found her, then what happened? So then around a couple months before I graduated, both of these custody disputes kind of started being simultaneous and in tandem. So my ex-wife, we had 50-50.

Starting point is 00:02:19 When we divorced, I was seeing my son every week or the whole week and I had him and then we would trade off like that. She and the ex-girlfriend they became buddies and they just both started, I've never met my daughter that I have with the ex-girlfriend and my son I haven't seen in over a year. So this isn't any petty dispute over you know who gets the teddy bear that he liked when we divorced and then you know whose house does that stay at? It's like, I, if I don't spend all this money on these attorneys,

Starting point is 00:02:50 foreseeably I won't see my kids at all. Can I ask you, at the same time, can I ask you a question and just be honest, as much as you're willing to be, do they have a reason that they're keeping these kids from you? No, is there a real reason there? Like did, real reason there? Like, were you an alcoholic? Was there something there? No drugs, no alcohol, no abuse. The second axis is trying to,

Starting point is 00:03:15 has tried to throw out abuse allegations. But it's, you know, that's part of our goal for- So there's allegations, there are allegations, but you're saying they're not true? Right, right. Okay, got it. Yeah. Okay. What do you make?

Starting point is 00:03:32 I make 78. How old are you? I just turned 30 in January. And this dispute, the legal bills, have been going on one year? Oh, I would say they've been going on since about summer of 2021 and they've only kind of increased and gotten worse. Okay I'm confused as to why the judge hasn't ruled on this in four and a half years. Well, so Maya, with my son, we had a totally amicable divorce.

Starting point is 00:04:05 I know, you told me that. You told us that. So why, if it's been going on since 21, she's been reneging on what the divorce decree said, why is a judge not ruled on it in four years? Well, it's different judges in different states. With my daughter's case... No, no, no, no, no. Back to your son.

Starting point is 00:04:21 Let's just stick with that. My son, yeah, no, no, back to your son. Let's just stick with that. My son, yeah, sure. Oh, okay, so with my son, it's a very small town in Oklahoma and I guess the court's docket just gets really backed up. I filed last year, I was supposed to have my son for spring break, she texted me the night before, said she wasn't going to give him to me. And so I filed something immediately. I got a lawyer, we showed up to a hearing in may of last year and they kind of ran the clock on that hearing to where we weren't really done with it. It was five 30 and the judge said, y'all go home. We'll schedule for another date that, you know, because we've run out of time

Starting point is 00:05:00 that got scheduled out into late summer last year, like into August. And then my attorney, I had died and now I've got a different attorney and I've got something scheduled for middle of April yeah yeah and you're trying for 50-50 that's all you want 50-50 on the on the original child okay so the overall the overall answer your question is this is not only consuming your money, it's consuming your brain. And so, and you have relied on legal counsel that sucked. So you need to get a lawyer that is much smarter and much meaner than the lawyer that you've had. It's way past time playing nice here, and so we need to make

Starting point is 00:05:45 an example out of these people. I'm gonna start filing with social services, I'm gonna file 60 different ways I'm gonna make all of these people's lives miserable so we can put an end to this. And so you guys have been trying to, you've been trying to play real sweet, real nice, and your lawyer was old and then he died, and he was playing nice with the small town judge instead of just going in there and raising hell. And so you need an attorney that you don't even like, that kind of mean attorney, okay?

Starting point is 00:06:17 And that's so smart and they're a little more expensive usually, but they're worth it. So, and try to bring it to a head. That's the only answer I know for you, but just talking to you for four minutes is exhausting. Listening to what you've been through and it's so chaotic. It's all over the place. It's left, right, turn, flip, back, flip, double flip, turn right, turn left, turn back. There's all these different moving parts and it just takes up, you're burning all your calories on these issues. And so, you know, you got to spend the right amount of money in a short period of time

Starting point is 00:06:54 and blow everything up or you've got to turn and talk about, you know, what's the right thing to do. I tried to be in my son's life. I tried to be in this child that was born outside of wedlock's life. I tried to do that and instead what I got is crazy women. And so, you know, I don't know. I can't tell you. You're going to have to measure how far into this you go. But I can tell that there's no systematic anything in your description of this. And that tells me that you're getting the runaround

Starting point is 00:07:29 rather than giving the runaround. And so in a lawsuit situation, sometimes the best defense is a good offense. And so I want you to file, I want attorneys filing like seven motions every morning just to piss everybody off, including the judge. I'm just gonna screw with people for a living for a short period of time

Starting point is 00:07:49 and just knock the snot out of everyone to where they're all back on their heels and they're all burning calories trying to keep up with you instead of the other way around. It's your only shot here or you need to flip and just walk and let the thing die. And then they'll come wandering in maybe wanting child support. Or you need to flip and just walk and let the thing die. And then they'll come wandering in, maybe wanting child support.

Starting point is 00:08:08 Oh, wait, maybe now we get a hearing. Okay, interesting. Money's tied to this. So I don't know, Tanner, I can't tell what's going on. I can just tell that you're worn out and that you've been getting the runaround rather than giving the runaround. I can feel that and that's where all your money is going. Because the legal system is not a just system and it is not a good system. It sucks and it will drain you dry. So I pray good luck for you sir but I don't I think it's going to require some pretty aggressive moves beyond what you've been doing. You know one of the first things I

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Starting point is 00:10:03 Brian is in Pittsburgh. Hey Brian, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hello Mr. Renzi, thanks for having me on. Sure, what's up? So, my parents recently passed away and they're with the Lord and they left myself and my brother in inheritance. We both paid off our mortgages and then we both invested. He invested in a way I'd say the typical average way and I sought out like a Christian financial advisor and he wanted or I invested in I guess what we say more Christian friendly stocks and he invested around June last year He invested around June last year and so he had his money in about six months and he had made probably 50% more than what I had made with my stocks and they had only been in there

Starting point is 00:10:54 about three or four months. When I talked to his advisor then and told her how I was investing and she said, oh, she just, she didn't say it out loud but basically what she's saying is I'm gonna earn about half as much as he is if I invest that way so I wanted to see what your thoughts were on that. Well there are a couple of thoughts they come number one that way is you're you've got a small portfolio of single stocks and you can't keep up with good mutual funds regardless of the ethical standards of the selection. So just because he's investing, he's more diversified across many, many stocks and mutual

Starting point is 00:11:41 funds and so forth, I would assume. In other words, like you got 10 or 15 stocks, he's probably got 300. Okay. So that way, even if we take out the ethical considerations of the selection of those companies, it's not there. And so it's not just that sin pays more. It's the way you've structured your portfolio is the thing. Now,

Starting point is 00:12:09 then if you want to investigate a mutual fund that has done pretty well with that, the Timothy Plan out of Atlanta has a long track record. I am in that one. Do what? I am in that one. That's one of the, there's 10 different funds that I made in the Timothy Plan. Oh, you're in funds. You're not in, I thought you said you bought stocks. I'm not really sure what it is.

Starting point is 00:12:32 I just invested with them. Ding, ding, ding. Okay. Number one, don't put the money in things you don't know what they are. Okay. And the Timothy Plan just rung a bell because it was one of the things on your list but you don't know much about it is what you're telling me. Because it has kept up pretty close to the S&P the last time I looked at it. So

Starting point is 00:12:54 and they are selecting stocks that are you know I guess the best way to say it is anti-sin stocks if you will. So no alcohol, no tobacco, no drug companies that are doing the abortion pill, no anything that follows an evangelical belief system, no wines, you know, no alcohol of any kind, no tobacco of any kind will be the two primaries. And then again, anything having to do with the right to life, those sorts of things. That's where Timothy's going to fall, all right to life, those sorts of things. That's where Timothy's going to fall, alright? And then you can get into that.

Starting point is 00:13:31 Now I like the fact that your heart is telling you to try to do this, okay? I do want to give you, because my heart functions the exact same way, I don't want to do things with money that God gave me to manage that is dishonoring to Him. And that's your approach, I assume, right? Correct. Okay. Now, once I did that, then I had to think through, okay, what is really happening here? All right? Let me give you an example. If you disagree with something morally that

Starting point is 00:14:10 company A is doing and so you don't buy company A's stock, that does not, if you did buy company A's stock anyway, that company does not get the money. I'm buying that stock from Jade who's selling it. Unless the company is doing a treasury issue or an initial public offering, they're not getting the money when you buy the stock. That's a very good point. So you're not funding the thing that they're doing when you buy their stock. Now are you benefiting when they make money from the thing that they're doing when you buy their stock. Now are you benefiting when they make money from the thing that they're doing? Yes you would

Starting point is 00:14:49 be. So that would be valid. But if I buy a, you know, like George posted the other day that his Tesla reached 200,000 miles, he was real proud the battery lasted that long and we made fun of him for it and all this. Well some of these lefties that are going berserk on Elon all trashed George in the columns because he has no ethics. George did not buy the Tesla new. He bought it from a guy named whatever, Joe. Joe got the money not Elon. So there's no ethical consideration for George buying a used Tesla,

Starting point is 00:15:25 nor positive or negative. He did not support Elon or you know, whichever side of that you want to come down on. So it's just stupid people posting in George's comments, which is generally who posting comments anyway. But, um, you know, and I was just laughing at him at lunch. He's telling me about this cause he reads the comments. I don't read them. And he told me about this and I'm like, George, number one,

Starting point is 00:15:47 stupid people. Number two, you didn't, you bought a used Tesla. Now Rachel bought a new Tesla. Okay. So Rachel, she has no defense because she supported and she didn't do it to support Elon. She did it cause she wanted a car with a battery. So, or whatever. And she didn't even do it for climate change. She did it because she thought it was cool. It's like the car. But anyway, but you see what I'm saying? So the deal, Brian, is if you're buying stock

Starting point is 00:16:12 in one of these companies, you're buying it from someone else who's selling it, not from the company. That's the thing. The second thing I had to consider in my decision-making period, and I'm not trying to talk you out of doing what you're doing. I think you can do what you're doing successfully if you'll

Starting point is 00:16:26 manage your portfolio closer and do stuff like the Timothy Plan is done. They have proven it's doable. Okay, now the second thing I had to decide is I also do business in other places with companies that engage in things I don't. So if you're anti-alcohol and anti-tobacco, I don't know where you're gonna buy groceries because they sell tobacco. I'm thinking about oil and how everything goes back to oil. Like you know, it's hard to do anything. I don't know how you're gonna support me, you know, and you know, your bank supports United Way, which supports Planned Parenthood. So they're doing abortions with your bank money.

Starting point is 00:17:11 But how far down this rabbit hole are you going to go to measure everything and try to figure out who's doing what and which CEO's got a personal life you agree with and doesn't? I can't keep up with all of it. It's too much legalism for me. And so I don't, I mean, there may be a Hustler magazine in the market inside when I bought gas out at the pump. And so I guess I supported pornography. I don't know. But I don't think that's, that's not how my brain works.

Starting point is 00:17:38 So like if I, if I don't engage somewhere in the process, I don't have any influence anymore. Yeah. So I don't know. Those are some thoughts I don't have any influence anymore. Yeah. So I don't know. Those are some thoughts I went to, and so I quit worrying about it. Yeah. I'm not flipping about it,

Starting point is 00:17:51 I'm not gonna directly invest in a company that's doing harm to people, and if I can't stand what they're doing, I generally quit buying their products in general, just as a personal thing, it makes me wanna throw up, so I just don't do it. But it's not really some big boycott. It's not really some holiness thing on my part.

Starting point is 00:18:11 It's more of just a temper fit. I think, Dave, what you said is exactly right. Unfortunately, we do live in a broken world, and whatever you choose to focus on, there's going to be a rabbit hole. I mean, if I say, Dave, who made that shirt? Where'd that come from? Was that- Rutrow? I got no idea. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:18:26 Like you could pick anything and go down a deep rabbit hole. And as people, we can't carry all of those burdens all the time. We're not intended to. And that's where my brain goes, because there's a there's a cause and probably a very meaningful cause underneath every stone that you turn. If you go down deep enough. And I just think it's in a moment. What are you choosing to focus on? And I think like for him, if that has been a convicted area in his heart, go with it.

Starting point is 00:18:52 Like I said, I'm fine with going with it. I'm just telling you how I, and I don't, so I don't spend an inordinate amount of time trying to only find quote unquote ethical stocks to invest in. Yeah. Yeah. It's just that. And that's my reasoning, mainly because their company's not getting the money anyway. And I don't think George benefited, because I'm positive George did not benefit Elon by buying a used Tesla. Elon didn't get the money, stupid.

Starting point is 00:19:16 That's how it works. Come on, I mean, this is dumb. Well, it's ethical consideration. Who are you typing this on? iPhone? You moron, it was made by a child in China? I mean, come on. Geez, you people in your mother's basement with an opinion, you drive me nuts. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, technology has changed a lot in the last 30 years. Now the hot topic is AI and I understand

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Starting point is 00:20:48 washaugh ramsey personality is my co-host triple eight eight two five five two two five Anna is in Austin Texas hi Anna how are you hi Dave I'm good how are you better? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I received this weekend, I received some devastating news that my husband was scammed out of almost his entire 401k. And so now it's tax time. And we're going to have to pay taxes on it. So we have no more retirement and our savings is going to be wiped out.

Starting point is 00:21:34 And I don't know where it began from here. How did he get scammed? What did you put it in? It was a crypto. Crypto. How much? 270,000. 270,000. Yes sir. There's a little bit of a backstory I'm not making excuses for him but there's a little bit of backstory as to why he felt financially strapped that he

Starting point is 00:22:07 felt he needed to do this to secure our financial future. How old are you? I'm 57, he's 58. We had no debt. We paid off our home in February of 2022. What's your household income? Right now he makes approximately $98,000 annually and I'm currently not working. I had to quit my job in January of 2023 because I was diagnosed with cancer. And the medication that I'm on just causes me a lot of side effects that we chose. It's better for me to stay home because we could afford it. Obviously we have no debt again and he was, I think, he was looking into securing our future so that he may be able to retire early. He started doing some research as to

Starting point is 00:23:16 how to invest money. He knows nothing about that. He's not educated in that. So, the person that came up… Your voice is fairly muffled. Speak directly into your phone, please. Okay. There you go. Okay. He's not... No, he's obviously...even if he is educated, he's not wise. And he got desperate, it sounded like. He did. And...

Starting point is 00:23:39 Right after I get desperate, I usually get stupid. That's what it was. And so that happened in January, 2024 in and about March or April. He came up to me and told me that, um, that he had invested a little bit of money and I was like, okay. Um, and he says, and he showed me that it was, he showed me that the app and he showed me that the money was, I mean, we had made it made about three or 400,000 and

Starting point is 00:24:09 I said, okay, how much did you invest? And he told me at that time, he said 30,000. I said, what did you get the money from? Cause I take care of all the banking. And he said that he pulled it out of the 401k and I said, okay, dumb mistake. You know, we'll get, we'll get through this. I found a temporary job. I made enough money to cover the taxes. I made, I, I calculated we'd probably owe about 6,000 taxes. I said, okay, great. Well I'll take care of it and I'll get a permanent job.

Starting point is 00:24:40 So it won't affect our savings. And now that it's tax time, I kept looking for the form that comes in the 10 99 R I believe, and he kept making excuses as to why he hasn't gotten, he had, we hadn't received it. So I kind of had a feeling that it was worse than what I knew and, uh, that I was worse than what he had told me. And this weekend he gave me the paper and it was 270,000. So now we will have to.

Starting point is 00:25:10 And now it's worth the risk. Of course. Yes. Well, he, I looked at it last night and there is about 16,000 in it right now, but. Was it really a scam or did he just lose? Like did he get scammed by a scammer or he'd invested the money and he lost the investment? No, it wasn't an actual scammer. I had demanded that I,

Starting point is 00:25:32 back when he told me it was 30,000, I demanded to know where he sent it, how he sent it. I wanted to know everything. And apparently it was a company in Hong Kong. And I looked at the address and it's in the slums of Hong Kong. I'm like, why didn't you do the research before? Well, the thing is now, he said that it was the 200, I'm like, how can you go from 30,000 to 270,000? And he said it was about the same time. He invested here in a couple of different. Okay

Starting point is 00:26:05 Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Yes, sir Does he now own that this is stupid or is he still defending? No, no, he owned it. He's been living with us for the past year and it's I mean he had his Well, he was lying about it 20 minutes ago. Yeah, you said he just came clean with it Yeah, he just came clean with it but he was really with that lie for the for the but I mean he's now saying out loud I completely screwed this up. Yes he has. That's important because otherwise he's gonna do it again. Right and he's like I'm prepared to work till I'm 70.

Starting point is 00:26:45 Yeah, he might as well. I mean, I'm having a really good job right now and yeah. There's not a choice at this point. Belly up buddy. How's your health? Are you improving? It's getting there. I'm on a clinical trial.

Starting point is 00:26:54 Okay. And so I'm hoping that this will be something that will, you know, give me more time and I feel pretty good except, you know, just the usual side effects. I mean, not the usual, but the side effects of medication. But thank you. I'm happy to, you know, every day is a good day and I'm not going to let this bring me down, but it does scare me for our future. The good news is you have no payments. And so what he needs to do is max out his 401k and you'll need to max out your Roth IRAs and

Starting point is 00:27:32 You need to tell him that if he makes any transactions without the two of you being in agreement ever again That that will be the last time he'll do so as your husband Absolutely, he needs to understand that this has extreme consequences because he not only did something stupid, he lied about it at length, deceived, created a web, a full scenario of lies. That concerns me actually more than his stupidity. Correct. And so you know that's a big deal. So yeah you guys can catch up. I mean you can make 120 and you max out your 401ks and Roths, max out your Roths and work another 10 years, 12 years and you will have enough of a nest egg to retire on

Starting point is 00:28:20 if you don't do this again. But as soon as he gets desperate and tries to pull off a fast one, that's when you get messed over. And so, ouch, I'm so sorry, honey, with everything you're facing. It's just not fair. Wow. All right, guys, let me give you a couple principles on that. There's a guy who scammed a bunch of people and wrote a book from jail in the 70s. The book he wrote about himself was con man or saint. Obviously he thought he was a saint but he was in jails or he was a con man. Okay, but there was I read that book in the early 80s and as a teenager, early 20s, and the only thing I really got out of the book was he said it's very it's almost

Starting point is 00:28:57 impossible to con someone unless they are afraid or greedy. This guy was afraid. His wife had cancer. He's trying to get a bunch of money so that he cannot have to work and take care of her. And he got desperate based on fear and that set him up in the emotional category to be conned. The other crypto people that get con up in the emotional category to be conned. The other crypto people that get conned are the greedy ones. They're trying to make double your money in 20 minutes because I'm the cool kid and I'm the smart one and I grew up with a cell phone in my hand,

Starting point is 00:29:37 a smartphone in my hand. So I know everything about digital. No, you don't. You're a greedy fool and you're gonna lose your butt in crypto also. The second thing you can do is who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her and he will have no lack of gain. If you have to hide the investment or the financial move from your spouse, warning, warning warning warning you're screwing up. I have no lack of gain because Sharon and I talk about it before we do it and it keeps

Starting point is 00:30:15 me on the rails. This is the Ramsey Show. All right Dave you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah. I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers

Starting point is 00:30:39 own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing. And what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric. Yes, well and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. You know

Starting point is 00:31:12 that's why we're partnering with them because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really really good job with customer service and the deals that they're with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey Tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account.

Starting point is 00:31:36 And I'm not kidding, it took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly, like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day my phone rings and it says fairs on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience

Starting point is 00:31:55 and I so, so appreciate that. So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy. Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs. Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general.

Starting point is 00:32:18 And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe. You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fair Winds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. If it sounds too good to be true, it is. That'll keep you from getting scammed too. If you think you found the one place in the history of man that you can double your money easy and quick, you're about to be scammed. Sounds too good to be true? It is. It's one of my gripes about crypto. It's not the concept of crypto. It's the spirit

Starting point is 00:33:13 that's around it, which is all of that quick easy money that only the cool kids can get in on. And if you're not cool and you're not digital, you're just an old boomer Dave. You don't know. Oh yeah I do know. Absolutely I know. Completely understand how crypto works. It's not the working of it that bothers me. It's the spirit of greed that's around it. Which is, greed is different than ambition. Greed is simply I want something super fast and easy and honestly I just don't find that in the money world. I find slow and steady.

Starting point is 00:33:53 Every time I meet wealthy people that have built wealth and have sustained it, they are the tortoise, they're not the hare. That's right. Slow and steady. Slow and steady. Slow and steady, slow and steady, slow and steady, slow and steady. They're freaking boring is what they are. Slow and steady. There's no flash. They're not on the cover of Fast Company magazine. They're on the cover of Slow Company magazine. Slow and steady. Not in a hurry. It's okay. I'm not desperate. I'm

Starting point is 00:34:20 not greedy. I'm not fearful. Slow and steady. Just slow your old boys. You won't get screwed. That's what happens. But you step up into an old bear trap when you're trying to get something for nothing quick. And whatever your motivation, that's still where you're going to end up. Do you know what I think is a deeper part of that? Is, hopefully I can articulate this in the way I'm thinking it. When you do something that's slow and steady and it's a day after day discipline, there is more confidence that you have to put in yourself

Starting point is 00:34:54 versus somebody else who's promising you results quickly. I can just quickly put my confidence in them and they'll take care of it. That plan will take care of it. That drug will take care of it, That drug will take care of it. Whatever that thing is, that's the quick thing. Whereas the slow and steady almost always depends mostly on you.

Starting point is 00:35:12 You are the thing that's showing up week after week, month after month, whether it's a training program or an investing slow and steady over time. I don't feel confident in myself, so I have to find someone else that can place my confidence. I think that's what's at the core of that, Dave. You know, I ran into that one, I used to coach all these NFL guys,

Starting point is 00:35:30 and I would go into a rookie camp and try to explain to these NFL rookies, NFL stands for not for long, you're gonna be there 3.8 years on average, and you can't buy all of your cousins a house, you don't have the money. But I remember talking to one of those guys, he goes, Dave, I got it covered, I got me a man.

Starting point is 00:35:49 And I went, I got a guy. I got a guy. Okay. Yeah, you're screwed, you're about to lose all your money. When you say I got a guy, that's exactly what you're talking about right there, isn't it? Yeah, that's what it is, he's got it under control.

Starting point is 00:36:00 I know how to play football, I don't know anything about money, so I got a guy. And I don't have to be responsible then, because I got a guy. Yeah, that's right. And it's all floating. The responsibility. I didn't have to do anything, I didn't have to think, I didn't have to learn, I didn't have to grow, all I got to do is put the ball in the end zone.

Starting point is 00:36:19 That's a good point. That was interesting. Because I told him as soon as they said I got a guy, I go, you're screwed. I don't even know who your guy is, you're screwed. I don't even know who your guy is. You're screwed. I don't even care who it is. Cause it's your responsibility to handle this money, not his.

Starting point is 00:36:30 That's right. And so you're screwed. You're going to lose it all. You're going to be one of those people on the dadgum sports illustrate special of stupid athletes that lost all their money. You'll be the next one. And that's exactly what it's going to be.

Starting point is 00:36:40 And the other guys are laughing as I'm doing that. Cause that's kind of exactly how I answered the question from stage, But yeah, I got a guy. Colby is next. Colby's in Des Moines, Iowa. Hey Colby, how can we help? Hi Mr. Ramsey, how are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Good deal. Um, so I am, I'm a college student, uh, a long ways from home,

Starting point is 00:37:02 halfway across the country and I have a cattle herd that I bought, um, from one cow and, and bred up until it's all right size, um, over the last 11 years. And I'm, I'm now deciding to get out of the cattle market. And so I'm going to be selling off my cows and I'm going to have about $20,000 come into my possession. And I'm just trying to find what the best way is to safely store that money. And I've thought about investing it into a CD or some sort of retirement account or something that can build wealth over time.

Starting point is 00:37:40 You're in school. Yes, sir. What are you studying? Ag business. What year are you? I'm a sophomore here. How are you paying for it? My parents are helping me as well as I have scholarships. You know what?

Starting point is 00:37:58 I think the best investment Colby can make is Colby. And that means I want you to finish this degree debt-free more than I want you to be a professional investor. So if I were in your shoes, I would just park this in a high-yield savings as an insurance policy that you get out of school 100% debt-free. And then when you get out of school, the $20,000 will have grown a little bit, not a lot in two years, but when you get out of school, the 20,000 will have grown a little bit, not a lot in two years. But when you get out of school, you'll have a little more money and you can use it to set up house and start your new life when you get out of school if you don't need it to finish school.

Starting point is 00:38:36 But you're a the actual math on you getting a four-year degree, you're obviously a kid grew up on a farm, you're growing, you know, you grew a herd of cattle and that's back home and your dad's, your dad and mom's helping you get them sold off. You're gonna put that money in the bank and now you're getting an ag business degree which is a valuable degree. It's a degree you're actually gonna freaking use. Way to go. Good job. And so that, what you learn is going to give you a better, for what you pay to learn that, is going to give you a better mathematical return than putting it into a mutual fund. Because you are a better investment than a mutual fund, literally.

Starting point is 00:39:16 I mean, not only philosophically and spiritually, but financially you're a better investment. If you know so what you're gonna make because you're getting smarter in other words is is gonna be a good return on the tuition dollar so yeah pay cash for your school and when you get out then you've got a little bit chunks sitting there if you don't touch it. Yeah it's perfect that'll be your emergency fund and it'll be your first apartment fund which is wonderful. Yeah that's the opposite of getting fancy right there. You know, if you wanna take some risk with it and put some of it in a S&P 500, you could.

Starting point is 00:39:52 It's down right now. It's a good time. Everything's down. But... I feel like I'd probably still wait though, Dave. I mean... I wouldn't. I would do just what I said.

Starting point is 00:40:01 I'd just put it in a high yield savings. I don't... Because I really don't want that... I mean, if he put 10,000 of his 20 in the S&P and it goes down 2,000 bucks, which it would have in the last three weeks, okay? You know, he's going to freak out. The only way I'd do that probably is if you had a bunch of money somewhere else that you're like, hey, I already have that, I already have my emergency fund, I already have the money set aside for, you know, and you didn't need it. But knowing that this is a short horizon and you're likely

Starting point is 00:40:27 going to need the money. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think you get out of school and you pay cash for school and you're studying there in Iowa. Way to go, man. Proud of you. Good. That's good stuff. I like that. Here's the other thing. We know that kids that know how to work before they get to go to college, and let me tell you what, you grow some cattle. You grow a little herd, you've been doing some work, some real work, like early in the morning, late at night, it's cold outside, all that kind of stuff,

Starting point is 00:40:58 and no bitching and whining, go get your work done. And that kid, he's set. I mean, his mom and dad have not only given him the ability to go to school, they've helped him get in school, but they also gave him work ethic. Oh, by the way, they taught him how Ag Business works. We just turned one cow into a small herd over 11 years and show him how this works. So he's got hands-on P&L experience.

Starting point is 00:41:24 And what a gift And what a gift. Yeah, he's gonna be all right. He'll be just fine. Yeah, I mean, there's something about that that we lost when the vast majority of us no longer grew up on a farm. Back when most Americans started their lives and their careers on a farm,

Starting point is 00:41:43 they started life with a different, with a catalyst on their hands. They know how to do something. I think it is important to get outside. You have to learn how to work. You got to learn how to sweat. Do things that are uncomfortable very early on. To win. Yeah. That's where winning usually comes from. So what a great kid. He's on his way. And what a great mom and dad. We salute you. Well done. You did it. You did it. You did it. That's cool. Very good. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Starting point is 00:43:11 build wealth to work that they love and create actual amazing relationships jade washout ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today tj's in

Starting point is 00:43:25 Pittsburgh hi TJ how are you better than I deserve how are you better than I deserve what's up so ten months ago my father unexpectedly passed away and he had two apartment buildings that inevitably fell into mine and my mother's hands. I'm an only child so my question today is just is do we keep the buildings or do we sell one? Oh only one? Not both? So yeah one of them is it's 17 units in total. One of the buildings is 12 units and the other one is five units. Um, the 12 unit one, whenever he passed the initial thought was to sell them. So I, I just posted it on Zillow and Facebook as an off market deal and we had a lot

Starting point is 00:44:15 of interest in it. We had offers for 1.3, 1.4, but the number my dad wanted was 1.5. So I really wanted to honor that and And the 1.4 offer, the guy was really interested. He came and looked at everything, but the building was only, only seven of the units were filled and the other apartments that weren't, they all needed done. So that's why we didn't sell at that time. And that was inevitably like why everybody was turned off from buying the building. That was eight months ago. So the last eight months, my mother and I have been working our butts off, flipping those apartments and we now have it that 10 of the 12 are rented. So the question has been popping back up. Do we try to sell it again or do we,

Starting point is 00:45:09 um, keep the building? Uh, both situations are blessing. Who owns it? You or your mom? My mother. Okay. So it's not we, it's her. It is. It is legally. It'll be you when she does. Yes. Yes. We, we, I say legally because, um, we work as a team. She couldn't do without me. I couldn't do without her. Um, well, what does she want to do? What does she want to do? Why, why are you,

Starting point is 00:45:35 um, working? I mean, what do you do for a living? So I do YouTube full time, which I know what that sounds like, but, um, we, I'm in a group channel. We have 350,000 subscribers and it's a ton of work. What do you make? How much are you making on YouTube? So it's different every month, but around 2,000 a month. Okay.

Starting point is 00:45:59 So you're not making a living yet, but you're making some money. Okay. Yes. that's your only job I also have a Christian clothing brand that I run that's the other part yeah is it profitable yes okay and how old are you 24 okay um the way to decide whether to keep something I'm sorry for the loss of your dad, is to decide what's best for your mom. Yes. Not what your dad wanted.

Starting point is 00:46:35 Other than the fact he would have wanted what's best for your mom too, I'm sure. But now in this situation, your mom's over there flipping apartments with her 24-year-old son who's a youtuber yes so what's best for your mom it's probably to not be in this business I guess what do you think I'd say that again I said what do you think do you think it's but that you think she wants to be in it or she just got left in it she's in a very tough situation too, cause she also works full time. Um, but we were surviving and we have been doing it. Um, I mean we're obviously thrown into it. It was all unexpected.

Starting point is 00:47:18 And I'm hearing what you're feeling. I wouldn't, I'm asking about her. Right. You're extrapolating the way you feel about it onto her. That's not accurate. No. She lost her husband. She lost her husband and she's holding having to hold all this together. Right. I might be wrong, but I don't think she's having fun. No, it's not typically a fun situation. No, this is also her life insurance, quote unquote. She was never- Is it all paid off as a property clear? No, no, there's 400,000 on the mortgage

Starting point is 00:47:55 for the 12 unit building. The other building is about 200,000 on the mortgage. And then her personal home is about 30,000. And then miscellaneous things come to about 12,000 or 20,000 dollars. So you could clear a little over a million selling the 12 unit and pay off her house and put the money in investments and her life will calm way down. Why wouldn't you want to sell the five unit one as well and just clear it all? and just clear it all.

Starting point is 00:48:27 The five unit one has been knock on wood, a breeze. There's been very little issues and she's able, her and I are able to run that smoothly without stress being turned to the factor. It's the 12 unit one that is like every week or the spring we don't get a phone call. If you had a pile of money in the middle of the table, and she had a pile of money in the middle of the table and didn't own that, I don't think she'd go buy it.

Starting point is 00:48:46 Yeah, and it's only been 10 months, you said. So it's not like you guys have been doing this as a quote breeze for years and years. So I just wonder about that statement. Owning it for 10 months? Yeah, that it's a breeze. I think Dave might be right, and it might be... At a minimum, we're getting rid of the 12 immediately for 1.4, 1.5. Yes, I would sell that. Because

Starting point is 00:49:12 I'm looking at this situation and I'm hearing a widow that inherited her husband and her son's dream of owning real estate and I don't think it's her dream. I might be wrong but I'm just reading between the lines and I'm listening to this and the thing you've gotta do, be very, very careful of TJ in this situation is to not let your desire, your dream, interfere with what's best for her. And I'm not talking about what's best for her financially,

Starting point is 00:49:43 I'm talking about the calories you all are burning, she's burning trying to pull all this and keep all this doing while she's working a full-time job. I'd put a million dollars in the bank if I were her, in a mutual fund if I were her, and I'd be out of the apartment business. And I love real estate, I'd probably buy that myself. I mean, I love that stuff.

Starting point is 00:49:59 So that's not the question of the investment, it's a question of the appropriateness of the investment for the people that are involved. And the good news for you, TJ. The one that's not the question of the investment. It's a question of the appropriateness of the investment for the people that are involved Mm-hmm and the good news for you the one that's a breeze if it turns out not to be a breeze a year later You could dump it too. Yeah, and then TJ can then put more of his time into doing things that are making him money Yeah, instead of reason instead of working on Cleaning carpet. Yeah, and his mother's apartment complex. Yeah, and cleaning carpet in his mother's apartment complex. Yeah, and which is a pain in the butt.

Starting point is 00:50:27 Yeah, I'm sure. Been there, done that. It's not easy, so it's tough. Sunk cost analysis is pretend you have that pile of money and not that thing. Would you go buy that thing with that pile of money? Many times the answer is no. I'll bet you if I had a million one sitting in

Starting point is 00:50:45 that lady's kitchen table and she didn't own this apartment and gave her the opportunity to go by this apartment, she'd say not just no, but yeah, that's what she would say. I'm just betting that I might be wrong. No, you're right. I'm thinking she'd be, but I mean, I'm sure her husband would be like me. He was probably good at it. It's not a big deal. It's what he does and it's part of running a business and yeah but it's a little different when it's left to her and the and the son to do it. So don't... you can go buy some more real estate with the cash after she passes away if you want to be in real estate business TJ but don't make your mom stay in it for your sake. This is the

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Starting point is 00:52:53 Well, let's face it, money and relationships are intertwined. And when they're out of whack, they're both out of whack. You don't have to stay stuck in that, though. I'll be with Dr. John Delaney in six cities in the next few weeks. We're going to be doing the money and relationships tour. We want to have you come out. We'd love to have you. Dr. D and I will be in Louisville, Kentucky, April 21st. That's just about a week and a half, two weeks away. And Durham on April 23rd. That's a Wednesday. Atlanta on April 25th on a Friday night. Phoenix on a Monday

Starting point is 00:53:25 May the 5th, Fort Worth on a Wednesday May the 7th in Kansas City on May 9th a Friday to wrap up the Six City Tour. It's gonna be a lot of fun. We're gonna be doing some stuff we've never done before on tour and you guys are gonna have a good time. The tickets are not sold out but they're getting close. If you want to come I suggest you go and get your tickets. We are in the last run here. So ramsysolutions.com slash tour. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. WhyRefi offers a different approach to paying off your defaulted private student loans

Starting point is 00:53:59 with a low fixed rate for less stress. Go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey, that's the letter Y, r-e-f-y dot com slash Ramsey, might not be in all states. All right, today's question comes from Tarek in Washington D.C. He says, I understand your advice that a house payment should be close to a quarter of your take home pay. However, if someone is a high income earner,

Starting point is 00:54:22 say $20,000 a month, couldn't the percentage be higher? If the mortgage were 40%, that would still leave $12,000 a month for all other expenses. Would a sliding scale be more applicable depending on income? You know, for this. You wanna buy a bigger house.

Starting point is 00:54:42 He wants to buy a bigger house. I mean, that's probably, Dave, there's probably a point where it does run out, right? Like when you're really just Dave Ramsey. I could see there. I don't have a house payment, so it doesn't work that way. That's true. But I mean, there could probably be a point

Starting point is 00:54:57 where it doesn't hold as much water, but I think at that level that you're talking about, it still does. Cause really the way I think about it is all of these percentages as a whole so if you say okay 25% That's going to my mortgage and then yeah at some you're gonna need to be investing 15% You know into at least 15% right into mutual funds then if you're we we say, you know generosity is important So we're gonna be needing to do 10% there and let let's just say, yeah, now you're in baby steps five and six too. So you've got kids college and maybe you're paying

Starting point is 00:55:29 extra towards the house. That could be another 10%. So now we're at 60%. And we really haven't even, we haven't gone on vacation. We haven't just been living life. So you see that the money goes very quickly. And that for me is why 25% is yeah yeah it makes it to where that house is a blessing and not a burden and when you start creeping above that you will find especially especially depending on season of life you will find that it's too tight to make everything work. If you have if you're trying to cash flow college if you're trying to cash flow daycare when you are out of whack in those in, you will feel it very quickly. And that for me is a real time example of that.

Starting point is 00:56:11 No, Tariq. A sliding scale would not be appropriate. A percentage is appropriate because a sliding scale would make the assumption that you're going to keep the stupid mortgage. I want you to pay off the stupid mortgage. And if you keep the percentages down you can pay off the stupid mortgage. We're not keeping it. It's not a pet. We're not trying to manage our debt. We're trying to freaking kill it. So that changes the discussion dude. If you want to keep it around like a pet then a sliding scale would be applicable. But wealthy people don't do that. Wealthy people pay off their mortgage, as is told to us in the data when we studied more millionaires than anyone else has ever studied in the Ramsey

Starting point is 00:56:55 Research Project. They pay off their mortgage, Tariq. They don't keep it around and manage it. So, no, you just want a bigger house. That's all it is. No. And get your stinking debt down and pay it off and kill it fast. Then you can build wealth and do anything you want to do at that point from that point on. Yeah, because you're so you're just looking at the numbers and you're going $12,000. I'll still have $12,000. that's a lot of money, but you're not thinking about all of the other things that you will need to do with that money that make you- Yeah, like throw that money at the debt, so you kill the debt.

Starting point is 00:57:31 That's right. Instead of, you know, gee, it's not, we're not, again, we're not trying to manage this. Now, change of subjects. Yeah. Did you notice, Jade, that the news people are melting down? Oh, they're puddles. Did you notice that the internet is ablaze? That we're all going to die because we've had three or four consecutive days of the stock market going down. Yes Dave, I've noticed. I think Chicken Little is alive and well. Against my will I've noticed. The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling well the sky is falling the sky is falling the sky is falling the sky is falling

Starting point is 00:58:06 The markets down Well over the last two years is still net up 80 percent. Let's not forget that So here's the rule boys and girls if you're gonna be an investor the definition of investor is you are thinking long-term If you're gonna be a day, we can look stupid up in the dictionary and find your picture, because 82% of day traders lose money. So stupid is what that is. But we don't do day trading here, we do investing. We have a long-term mentality. So when, if you have a long-term mentality and the stock market goes down, those of us that have been investing in the market steadily

Starting point is 00:58:46 for 30 or 40 years, not 30 or 40 minutes, we smile when it goes down and buy more. It's on sale. When I was a little kid, there was a company called Kmart. Oh yeah, I remember Kmart. Go shopping at Kmart. The blue light.

Starting point is 00:59:04 And they had this little thing that they, little cart they would roll up with a blue light on it and they would put something in the store on sale and turn on the blue light and all the redneck hillbillies would run to the blue light like moth and buy crap, cheap crap at Kmart on sale for a blue light special. It was a blue light sale. The stock market boys and girls has a blue light over right now. It's on sale.

Starting point is 00:59:33 Not I'm going to lose everything. Oh, God. Oh, geez, take a dad gum chill pill. Seriously, you all lose your dad gum minds. One turn off the news and your computer you have to choose you have to investors are like right now I do I know how much it's going to fall under the Trump tariff thing whatever the flip you want call this thing is he's doing right now, I can't tell. But, aside from all that, doesn't matter.

Starting point is 01:00:08 100% chance that the American economy is not going to crumble over this. 100% chance. So 100% chance that a year from now, we're gonna be sitting here smiling, those of us that did not take out our money. Mm-hmm, I know that's right. 100% chance. Y'all remember when COVID came and the world was coming to an end? Y'all remember the Fauci pandemic, right? Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 01:00:31 And so, you know, you remember and the stock market dropped 57%. Oh my God! Not only we're all gonna die, but we're going to die broke. Yeah. Yeah. Neither one happened. No. Didn't die. Didn't die. Broke. Kept buying all the way down, all the way up. Last two years of markets up dad gum, 80 plus percent in two years. You've almost doubled your money. Did you hear any headlines going, you're so rich you can't breathe? Nobody said that.

Starting point is 01:01:08 What if they were as enthusiastic about reporting prosperity as they were a temporary dip in the market? Think about this, you people man. Same thing, we had thunderstorms come through and I got seven different apps on my phone going off saying you're going to die, you're going to die. If you don't believe me the other app just told you you're going to die good god man the anxiety inducing stuff we have in this culture today it's unbelievable so yeah chill your butt out the only person that gets hurt on a roller coaster are those that jump off in the middle

Starting point is 01:01:40 keep your hands inside the ride at all times, boys and girls, and wait for the coaster to come to a stop and you will be just fine. Yes, you might get a thrill, you might get a thrill, you might hear click click click click click click click click click click click when it's going up and then you go WAAAHAAAA! Right? You might get a thrill, okay? It could happen. Welcome to investing. But investors stay the course they stay the course 20 years from today 10 years from today what do you think it's gonna be I lost oh no you didn't lose all your money you didn't lose on your mic and just ride the ride it's. It's what I'm doing.

Starting point is 01:02:25 I would put more in if I had a lecture right now. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative

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Starting point is 01:04:14 That's ramsysolutions.com slash teacher. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Eric and Cassie are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Hi Dave. Hi Jade. We're doing well good great. Thank you How are you better than we deserve brother? Where do you all live? We live in Louisville, Kentucky Just up the road a few hours. Well, welcome to Nashville. How much debt of you two paid off? So we've paid off $283,000. Yeah, how long did that take? Took us two years and eight months. Good for you. And range of income during that time? Yes, sir. So we started out at $189,000 and we finished at $240,000. Way to go! What do y'all

Starting point is 01:04:58 do for a living? I work for a mortgage lender actually. We lead a sales team. Mm-hmm. And I work for a regional bank located out of Louisville. Okay, wow. You managed to get your income to go up as a mortgage lender in the last two years and eight months. You are a magic animal. I wish I could take credit for it. It was more Cassie than it was me, Dave. Yeah. Man, it's tough out there in the mortgage world right now. Oh man, hoping these rates come back down with the stock market movement, it'll be great for ya. Yes sir.

Starting point is 01:05:29 So 283,000, two years and eight months, would that be your house? Yeah, it was our house and also two cars. Woo! Wow! Yeah, we purchased our home in May of 2022. Yes. Uh-huh. And a banker and a mortgage guy paid off their house. We did.

Starting point is 01:05:46 I love it. We know, yeah, we, we, we know there's a benefit. That's right. That's amazing. Yeah. And so we knew at that point that we wanted to be debt free but we weren't really doing anything to do that.

Starting point is 01:05:58 It was just a dream. So I think it was January of 2023. We had kind of a financial conversation about, okay, what are our goals in the next two years? What do we want to do two to three years? And so knock it out. Knock it out. Knock it out.

Starting point is 01:06:14 What's the house worth? The house is probably around 275. And how much is in your old retirement mistakes? Retirement, we've got about 500,000 for mine. And then I think on the way over here We said you had around two hundred together. We were just shy of eight hundred nice Okay, so well over a million dollar net worth. Yeah way to go you too. I'm so proud of you I'm 37 and I'm 34 Wow

Starting point is 01:06:43 Young millionaires. So proud of y'all. Thank you. We didn't really know how to go about it. And so we looked at the baby steps, found we had already knocked out one, three, and four. Five wasn't applicable, but it's on the way. Nice.

Starting point is 01:06:57 So we had to go back to two. To go to two, and that was a big question that we had on the table was, you know, cars or the house or how do we do this? We just didn't know, right? If we did, then we wouldn't have been in debt. And so we looked at our cars, read the book. Yeah, Total Money Makeover is kind of what got us sold into it, Dave.

Starting point is 01:07:17 We started listening to your program and really just made a commitment to each other. You know, it's a team, not individuals. It's both of us together setting goals and then really holding each other. You know, it's a team, not individuals, it's both of us together setting goals and then really holding each other accountable. One of the stories that we kinda laugh about as I was walking around Cabela's with my brother Andy and he came across a real Dave Ramsey tweet,

Starting point is 01:07:37 well it wasn't real, but it said, "'Life short by the boat.'" And we laughed. Have you seen that one? Yeah, we laughed when we saw it. And so I sent it to Cassie and she started panicking. She said, I can't believe Dave would say that. There's no way.

Starting point is 01:07:53 And she thought it was real. Everything on the internet is true. Abraham Lincoln said that. That's right. And I think the point of sharing that story is the temptation is real to really deviate from the plan, but really making a commitment to each other, setting a clear goal,

Starting point is 01:08:05 and then using the seven baby steps to work all the way through it. Life is short, but don't buy the boat, really pay off the debt. Or buy the boat in cash after you've paid off the debt. That's right, Jade. That'll work too. We can go with that one.

Starting point is 01:08:19 I like it, I like it. So let me ask you, you guys said, we knew we wanted to do this, we didn't know what plan to follow. Then you found the baby steps or you found total money makeover. How did you find it and what made you go this is the plan? Yeah, so I think both of us were really, you know, when we had that meeting in January of 23, it's really trying to figure out how to tackle it. And of course, we had heard of the Ramsey Show before, but we hadn't read the book,

Starting point is 01:08:44 we really hadn't listened much to the radio program. So it was really just trying to think what are some logical steps we can do to really start tackling this debt. And really where we started to struggle was, you know, what do we pay off first? Like we said, we both work in banking and we thought, well, the interest rates higher on the, you know, on the house than the cars, you know, would it make sense to tackle the house first or how do we do it? And really looking at the seven baby steps really answered that question for us.

Starting point is 01:09:10 And it was really a very simple, straightforward plan that we knew we could do together. And so reading Total Money Makeover was really what sold us together on that. And then of course we've become listeners since then too and really enjoy your show. Well, thank you. You know being in the mortgage business, the banking business, also probably some academic training in those areas gave you all probably a huge advantage because you're used to looking at numbers and you're used to thinking through how to win this process and then all we did was just give you a clear plan that matched up with common sense for you.

Starting point is 01:09:47 But I got a degree in finance, but I remember distinctly the first time after Sharon and I were married that I sat down, this guy started showing me a stupid compound interest chart on investment scrolling. And I went, oh, I gotta do that. It didn't take me but about like a nanosecond to do it because I played in those numbers, but it never was presented to me like it was for me.

Starting point is 01:10:11 It was just a math test I had to pass, you know, back in college or something. And, but then when I looked at it, and I went, wait a minute, that magic of compound interest, as Albert Einstein called it, the eighth wonder of the world, you know, I can get that working on my favor instead of working against me.

Starting point is 01:10:27 Right. And Dave, it seems so normal, I think, people become comfortable with debt. It's so normal to have an auto loan. It's so normal to have a mortgage loan. And it doesn't have to be. And I think that's something that as we read your book and listen to your show, we shouldn't just accept that as normal. And both of us work hard, we make good money, we've always managed our money fairly well, but we fell into that trap of, well doesn't everybody have an auto payment? Doesn't everybody have a mortgage loan?

Starting point is 01:10:53 You don't have to live like that. It's a very simple program, very simple steps, straightforward, and you can conquer it. How's it feel to be millionaires, no payment on your house or anything, and you're not even 40 and a baby on the way? This is awesome! Yeah, we're just excited to be new parents, we have that weight lifted off our shoulders,

Starting point is 01:11:13 we're just excited. It's such a huge weight. I mean going from even looking a couple years before we bought our home, renting and just feeling like we were lighting our money on fire every single month, or just flushing it down the toilet. And now we're homeowners, we own our home. The bank doesn't own our home. That's when we bought our home.

Starting point is 01:11:29 We were like, the bank bought our home. Yeah, people are like, you're homeowners. It's like, not really the bank owns our home. That's right. We're homeowners. Right, so it feels great. And to anybody that's listening, you can do it. It seems insurmountable when you start,

Starting point is 01:11:43 but if you just take it one step at a time. Create a budget, that was key. After we paid off the cars, because we could do that, it was the budget. Yeah, and you start seeing where all this is going. Yeah. I mean, you guys make a quarter million dollars. You know, where the flip is this money going?

Starting point is 01:12:01 We were making too much money to be this broke. To be this broke, that's right. So how are you gonna celebrate? What's next? Well, we're preparing to be parents. So we got really crazy, went to dinner when we paid our house off, which was really, really nice. I know.

Starting point is 01:12:15 And planned something else too. That's right, that's right. Do like a baby moon or something, that'd be great. Yeah, we've talked about doing that, yeah. And so. That's still TBD. Yeah. I mean, we just paid off the house in February. So, you know, and the baby's due in May.

Starting point is 01:12:30 So we're kind of figuring out what that big celebration thing is gonna be. Way to go, you know. Thank you. So proud of you. Well done, you're amazing. Rockstar couple. You changed this baby's life.

Starting point is 01:12:41 You changed your family tree by doing this and by getting control and working together. Amazing, amazing. Eric and Cassie, Louisville, Kentucky, 283,000 paid off in two years and eight months. House and everything. Baby Steps Millionaires, not even 40, making 189 to 240.

Starting point is 01:13:00 Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Woohoo! Love that. Yeah, wouldn't you like to be a millionaire before you had your first kid?

Starting point is 01:13:17 34 years old. Love it. I wouldn't know how to act. That is just so freaking awesome. That is awesome right there. Man, I'm so proud of them. This is The Ramsey Show. Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired? You can take control of your money and your relationships.

Starting point is 01:13:40 And it starts with just one night. Join me and Dr. John Delaney, live in a city near you on the money and relationships tour We're covering the real life stuff that matters so you can break the cycles that have left you stuck It's coming up fast So get your tickets for Louisville Durham Atlanta Phoenix Fort Worth or Kansas City at Ramsey Solutions comm slash tour today Well, I've got a book coming out next week. It's going to be here. Looks like, and, uh, really pumped about this because running a business is so

Starting point is 01:14:16 hard and we finally working with our Entrez leadership team developed the Entrez leadership system, which is basically the baby steps for running a small business. And if you know the baby steps, it makes it easier. It's still hard. What the last couple did, getting out of debt, it's tough. That's a hard process. It's a lot of work, a lot of sacrifice.

Starting point is 01:14:36 But same thing's true running your business. But if you'll follow the steps, follow the five stages of business and the six drivers that drive you through the five stages in this new book, it's going to make your small, we've coached 10,000 small businesses. And this is what our company has gone through, Ramsey over the years. So it's called Build a Business You Love. It comes out on the 15th.

Starting point is 01:14:58 If you pre-order it for $29.99, you get over $350 in free bonus items, instant access to the Entrez leadership hiring playbook, hiring and firing big pain point in the old small business world, the ebook version of build a business you love, and the enhanced audiobook. Pre-order at ramsesolutions.com slash store or of course if you're watching on YouTube with a podcast just click in the description and it will drop you right there. Carol is in Phoenix. Hey Carol how are you? Hey I'm doing great. Good what's up? Well I'm 63 and a half years old. My living situation has become a little bit unstable. I'm single and I don't know

Starting point is 01:15:42 whether I should take some of my meager retirements, savings and buy a townhouse or a place to live, or if I should continue maybe to rent and stockpile for retirement. How much do you have in retirement now? 401k, I have $57,831. Money market, $58,381. An IRA for $14,981. I'll have a small $204 a month coming in from UPS in perpetuity. $10,000 in savings, six in my checking and that's that's all I've got to my name no debt I drive a 2000 sunburn 2007 sunburned car with 144,000 miles on it you've been very

Starting point is 01:16:37 careful congratulations okay so you're telling me you got you got about 150 you got about 150,000 bucks total to your name, right? Mm-hmm. And I just found a second job last week to learn how to do bookkeeping. So what's the unstable part of the living arrangement? It's where I'm living that they may not rent to me anymore. It's a little bit of a messy relationship kind of thing. Were they giving you some sort of like great deal

Starting point is 01:17:14 or is it something that you could just take and go elsewhere? Their home is paid off and I paid like $415 a month towards expenses, so super duper cheap. Okay. I just got a raise at work now I'm making $58,000 a year. But it's no longer fun to be there. No longer fun to be there. Need to be somewhere else. At times yeah I'm not I don't know whether I should go, whether I should stay. And if I go a one bedroom, one bath apartment is like 1500 in a safe area, you know? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Starting point is 01:17:52 I'm trying to find a maybe a place to roommate, but that's not manifested itself yet. Mm-hmm. Okay. So yeah, the living situation is just kind of up and down. Well, I think you need to keep shopping on both of those. The one bedroom that you picked out was just the first one you drove by. Because one bedrooms are expensive in a lot of areas of Phoenix, but there are some safe

Starting point is 01:18:17 areas that wouldn't be quite as high as you found, although that is an expensive real estate market. So I want you to learn a lot more about rental prices in different neighborhoods, and I want you to investigate the roommate situation a lot further. Because if you put down 50 grand on a townhouse, you're gonna have a pretty substantial payment, right? Right.

Starting point is 01:18:44 And you're only gonna have 100,000 bucks to your name at that point. Mm-hmm, right. And I assume that obviously this is in a retirement account so it wouldn't be penalized because you're over 59 and a half, but you would be taxed on it, right? Yeah, well the money market's just that.

Starting point is 01:19:03 Okay, so you could throw the money market at it, that's true. As long as you had a good emergency fund that you could get a hold of after that, that'd be fine. I'm okay with you buying, but I really want you, what I would do is I would, here's what I would do. I would shop all three things till I became an absolute expert on roommates in the area, one-bedroom rentals in the area, and townhouses in the area, and see if the decision doesn't just present itself to you. Kind of like my second job did. Yeah. Dropped in my lap. Yeah, but it dropped in your lap because you're scratching around. Yeah, you know, what I found is the more options I have, the more power I have, and the better a decision I make.

Starting point is 01:19:47 When I narrow it down to, oh, there's only two things I can do and they both suck. That's the drama queen in my head, and I haven't done enough work yet to find all the possible things I can do. Yeah, that was the panic button. Exactly, exactly. And that kind of forces you into two things that are both untenable.

Starting point is 01:20:09 Or three, in your case, stay with people where things are weird. Go take an apartment I can't afford or a roommate that's nuts. You know, those are three things we don't want to do, right? Go from frying pan into the fire with roommate things. So you know, I think I'm gonna work on that that way and just build up and one of those is gonna be okay. I'm okay with the townhouse move, but I'm not okay with using this whole situation

Starting point is 01:20:36 to justify a bad townhouse move. That's right, it's still gotta meet the right parameters so that you're not strapped, right? You've still gotta be able to do this where that payment's no more than 25% of your take home. And the truth is you've been used to $450 on rent, so you're really gonna have to. Ouch.

Starting point is 01:20:51 Yeah, you're really gonna have to get in that budget and see what this means for you going forward. And good job on getting the bookkeeping thing. Make as much as you can doing that. Absolutely, absolutely. That's the way to go on it for sure. Marissa's in Baltimore. Hi Marissa, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Starting point is 01:21:10 Hello. Hey, what's up? Hey. My question is, do I need to be patient and trust the process or should I be more gazelle intense? I have paid off, well my husband and I have paid off probably $32,000 in since October of 23 and we still have 28,000 left to go. What's your household income?

Starting point is 01:21:42 It's fluctuated but it is not last year but the year before it was 120,000 and I'm not quite sure what last year's was but probably something. You're still going out to eat and going on vacation. Not vacation but eating probably yes. Now I'm 100% sure you make too much money to have only paid off 32,000 since October of 23. Mm-hmm. You're not gazelle intense at all.

Starting point is 01:22:08 Okay. Where are y'all spending the money do you think? Um, well rent is almost two thousand dollars. That's 24 out of 120. Yeah, and then I know we have to pay for health insurance out of pocket so that's a thousand dollars a month. Are you and your husband both on board and doing a budget every month and talking about all this or you trying to pull this wagon by yourself? Yeah I thought so. The budgeting probably not too much for both on board with paying off debt.

Starting point is 01:22:48 Yeah. In general as a general concept, but you're both not leaning into the details and treating this like it's a business and we've got to try to stay open and get this done fast. He's not, he's not doing that. He's out just working. And yeah, I hope that thing you're working on over there, honey, I hope it works out. Yeah. It feels like it's almost to the extent that it doesn't make you feel too uncomfortable you're doing it and that's the results you're getting right?

Starting point is 01:23:11 So no you shouldn't be more gazelle intense he should and the two of you together need to get on your every dollar budget. That's right. Let us get you signed up for that we'll pay for the premium version and give it to you and you guys sit down do your budget like your life depends on it because by God it does start acting like it get this cleaned up as a couple you need to get more intense and focused yes because you make too much money to have not paid off any more debt than you have this is the Ramsey show Music you

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