The Ramsey Show - Stop Giving Away Your Control

Starting point is 00:00:05 Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at AAA 8-825-2-25. Gary is in Huntsville, Alabama. What's going on, Gary? How can we hope? Yes. My father-in-law, who's 85, and in the nursing. home wants to take 10 family members to the Holy Land and pay $50,000 for that trip. I am nervous that he is going to spend down his nest egg and may need Medicaid in the future.

Starting point is 00:00:57 So that is my dilemma. What's the entirety of his nest egg? Do you know? I have heard he has $200,000 and he's using Social Security and the R&M. for his current monthly payments to the nursing home. Who told you that? My brother-in-law, his son. Okay.

Starting point is 00:01:23 Is he using the Nestag at all right now? Are you saying he's just using Social Security plus RMDs from an investment account elsewhere? Or is it this $200,000? That's it. It's all about $200 grand. That's everything he has to his name. And he wants to blow a fourth of that on this trip. Why does that concern you?

Starting point is 00:01:38 Are you afraid that you'll be on the hook? Tell us more about how you're involved. Well, I'm a family. I'm one of those 10 family members. I'm a family of four. So that is $20,000 of this money. And I don't want to burn his money. I don't want to be responsible for burning his money and getting him into Medicaid

Starting point is 00:02:00 if he has a stroke or mental decline. Let me ask this. Is he in his right mind? Is he well mentally still? Is he still with it? He is declining. He's having some thinking issues and some memory issues. So that also, I mean, in the kindness of his heart, he wants to do this, I'm just not comfortable spending for me $20,000 of that money for my family. Don't go. Don't go. What happens if you don't go?

Starting point is 00:02:35 Yeah. Well, I mean, I was asked quite frankly. pick dates and I was like I'm kind of being a wet blanket on this thing I don't think you're being a wet blanket I think that you're an adult and you have the ability to look out at something

Starting point is 00:02:51 and say this makes me feel comfortable or this doesn't make me feel comfortable and I think because other family members are involved that might not agree with you or maybe don't maybe they don't have the same you know knowledge base that you have about his money I think it's okay for you to say

Starting point is 00:03:07 and you could even say to him here's the I got some information I don't know that it's accurate and I'm not trying to overstep but this is what I was told that you have $200,000 and I just don't feel comfortable with you spending 20 of it on my family I think what you're doing is generous but I just don't feel comfortable thank you but no thank you and then he might come back and say actually that's not true I have you know more money or whatever but I think you have the ability to say that and it's not being a wet blanket it's just you choosing as an adult Okay, yeah, thank you.

Starting point is 00:03:40 I was heading that direction. I don't want to see him on Medicaid, basically being a burden on society when I'm taking the money to go on a nice trip. Now, the Medicaid, I don't think that's really what's going to happen here. You're saying if he runs out of money and then can't pay for the current nursing home, then he switches over to Medicare because he's basically impoverished. Yes, Medicaid, and I think I looked and there's a five-year look back. Yeah, exactly. So if he burns through this money, there can be a five-year look back, and he may not have been able to get it, which would put him on the street. Now there's a gap, and you guys are going to have to cover it.

Starting point is 00:04:16 And that's your true fear, Gary, is that the financial burden is going to be on you guys, the siblings, to have to fund the rest of his life. And let's say he goes to 90. That's still five years, right? Right. And so have you tracked his actual current burn rate to see how quickly this nest egg is being dwindled down? I have not had visibility into that, but I'm – Yeah. How long has he been there?

Starting point is 00:04:39 How long has he been in the nursing home? I would say, gosh, four years. There might be. Is that like 100 grand a year? What's it costing? I do not know the details. He said that it's Social Security. He's very independent.

Starting point is 00:04:52 He has a room and food. That's what he's using right now. But he said it's Social Security and the RMDs. Is what's paying for the... Yeah, I mean, if you wanted to look further into it, you could look and find out what is he spending on nursing home? every year. There could very well be a lot more to his financial life that you just don't know. I mean, he was, you know, he's an adult and probably has more going on than maybe what you're

Starting point is 00:05:19 aware of. So I just think there's a lot of unknowns here. If you just don't feel comfortable about it and you don't want to snoop around any further, you can say no. If you feel like you have the right to snoop a little further and just find out, hey, is this going to affect me in any way? if we run out of money, you've been here four years, you've already gone longer than the average kind of stay here. Is there anything we need to know? Like, I think it's okay to ask questions in a respectful way if you're concerned about his care in the future. You're clearly doing it out of love. Yeah. And so I don't think it's going to come across like you're just trying to be a jerk here. But I mean, here's the truth, Gary. Whether he burns 25% of his nest egg or 15%, chances are he's still

Starting point is 00:05:58 going to run out of money. And so I don't want you to feel any guilt for whatever happens in the future regarding his finances. He was an adult. He made his choices. Your best bet is changing your own family tree so that you never put your kids in this position. And you are the in-law, so you probably need to step lightly here. Your wife is probably the one that needs to have these conversations. How does she feel about it? Gosh. She was willing to pick dates, and we need to talk about that. Why not just send your wife and she can have some family time? possible. You hang back with the kids. You don't have the guilt. She gets to have probably the final trip with her father that she'll ever take. And so that part to me, listen, you don't block a blessing.

Starting point is 00:06:43 If this is what he wants for his legacy and to have this experience with his family, let him have it. Because again, it's not going to be the maker break on if he's going to, you know, not be able to be in this nursing home. It's 20 grand. And so he has 200 to his name. That's true. We don't know if there's more. We don't know what it's invested in. We don't know how long he has on this earth. And so I think you're taking on a lot of the weight, and I want to release you from that. Thank you. I'm guessing you care more than anyone else in the family about this at this point. Yeah, I generally try to plan my finances, and I try to work through contingencies myself.

Starting point is 00:07:19 And here's the thing. I'm like you. I'm very type A. I'm doing the research. I can't put that on other people to also be the spreadsheet nerd going, hey, I see you on my spreadsheet, you're going to run out of money in the next six months. You can try to warn them, but, again, as a father-in-law to, you know, your relationship with him, I don't know what it is.

Starting point is 00:07:38 I don't know that he really wants your opinion and will respect it. What do you think? Yeah. I don't, I mean, like you said, I think he's, he's a kind of heart, and I don't think he even understands, you know, potentially what his, you know, how much is how long as a nest thing will last. I mean, if he has a stroke tomorrow, that's full-time care. And, you know. That would probably put a damp. on this whole trip anyways, right?

Starting point is 00:08:06 Right, of course, right. Well, maybe he wants to do this before his health continues declining. I don't know. But I would at least have a conversation with the family, with your wife, and let the kids have this conversation with him. You can lay out the facts, but I don't think you need to be busting up in the nursing home with spreadsheets to convince them otherwise.

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Starting point is 00:10:09 Joel is in Los Angeles up next. Joel, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Good morning. Well, I have for a good afternoon. Well, it's morning to you over there. So we're happy to talk to you, man. What's going on? I have a... My mom passed away last year. I tried to call last year, but I got through, but I didn't have time to finish the call. So she passed away last year. The house is paid off. It's my sister and myself are on the will to do. do something with her house at her estate. But I can't see my get my sister to initiate

Starting point is 00:10:56 to help me to get this, to put me on as a trustee so I can sell the house and give her her half and my half. So what are my options here? She doesn't want to sell the house. Why? She's got a little bit of a mental health, well, she's got a mental health issue, and she thinks I'm out to kill her or something

Starting point is 00:11:14 does I expect. Oh. Yeah. So what does selling a property have to do with this? I have no idea, man She won't even answer my call I know where she lives I went over there to talk to her And she threatened to call the cops Because I wasn't invited on her property

Starting point is 00:11:29 Or something to that effect Do you have a history of being murderous No, I don't Okay Do you think you need to get a court order Or a judge involved If she's honestly mentally unwell For you to be listed

Starting point is 00:11:43 With her on this It's going to be hard for you guys to do anything Yeah, she can pass that test she can pass that. She's done it before. You know, I think she does have some mental health issues, but when she goes to court, because she's been to court a few times, I think she passed out all that. So I'm trying to avoid this going into probate. It shouldn't really go to probate, but that might be where we're going.

Starting point is 00:12:05 I think it's going to go regardless. Is it, was it willed that way, or is this just something you guys are assuming? Well, what do you mean by will, ma'am? Did she have a will that said that you and your sister are the owners of the house? house if she were to pass away? Yeah, it's heated down to my sister than myself. Equally, 50-50. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:12:27 What's the house worth? Oh, probably about 500,000, maybe 600,000, something to that effect. How are you doing financially? I'm doing okay, man, you know. You know, was all this happening because I took care of my mom and dad for a long time? And then my dad passed away 2021 and my mom passed away last year, a little burnt out. I'm trying a little bit of nest egg

Starting point is 00:12:52 with my pension and my 401. A little early for retirement because I can do it at 62, which turns in November. So, you know,

Starting point is 00:13:00 I'm thinking about go ahead and pulling the turnaround back, but I'd like to get that settled. But I don't know what my options are because every time I try

Starting point is 00:13:09 to talk to her, it's always, she doesn't return the call, she doesn't want to talk to me, and it just keeps going on and on. Well, I mean, there's something you can do called a partition action,

Starting point is 00:13:19 but that's going to cost you time and money in courts to basically have the judge force the sale of the house. And she obviously is not in a place where she's going to buy you out. She doesn't have $250,000 to take your portion to get you out of this. So the other option is it just sits. Is anyone using the house right now? No, nobody's using the house, no. It's just vacant collecting dust.

Starting point is 00:13:40 And you guys are paying property taxes and insurance on it? Who's covering that? My mom's estates. It's so many of the bank. Okay. And once that gets to win, down what happens? Or is there enough there to cover it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:56 Is there enough to cover it in perpetuity? Like, there's 500,000 bucks in there? No, it's not even close to that. Okay. Probably about 60-something, I think 16 in that effect, yeah. I would talk to your, I mean, you can't talk to your sister casually at this point. So you might need a mediator to actually get through to her to explain the situation and what the options are. And are you saying, is it just with you or is she have enough mental health issues that, like, she's not in a place where she could even make this decision? She really hasn't worked in years. I can't remember the last time she had a real job. She does this hustling thing where she does try to book people for travel stuff like that. But I don't, I don't, she's kind of pie in the sky, you know, life thousand are rich and famous, but on a pork of bees budget. You know, it's expensive. It's expensive. like that for years and I, you know, I didn't get any assistance with her taking care of my mom or

Starting point is 00:14:54 dad for years. So I don't expect her to change anything now. I just wanted to find the paperwork over to me. I'm not going to, you know, I'll have it all legal. She'll get her half and I get my half. Yeah. Does she understand she's going to walk away this thing with, you know, over 200 grand? That's life-changing money considering it's not even being rented out. There's no cash flow happening here. No. So regardless of how she feels about you, if someone were to stroke her to check for $250,000, I think she would take it. I'll try to go that route, you know, but this is like, it's tough, man, you know, because I can't get to cooperate with that.

Starting point is 00:15:30 I think you're going to need a mediator. Yeah. Yeah, I would contact a lawyer and just kind of understand what your state laws are and what you're able to do and not able to do to at least give you some clear next steps, regardless of the communication with her. But this is a messy one. It's a pretty rare scenario where your sister thinks you're out to murder her and therefore won't let you sell the property.

Starting point is 00:15:50 But I don't know what that has to do with the property still, regardless. You don't have to be there for the sale. You guys can be in separate rooms, but I would try to get some closure on this, and I'll let it just sit there collecting dust while you keep paying the bills at a mom's estate. Abby is calling in from Sacramento up next. Abby, welcome to the show. Hi, good morning. Hey, how you doing?

Starting point is 00:16:11 Good. So I am a college student, and I have recently come into a gift or inheritance of, of $25,000 from when my grandpa passed away in 2023 from the cell of his house. Cool. And I want to make a very wise decision where to put this inheritance money or this gift money. And I currently have a Roth IRA and I work inconsistently, but I have a monthly income of about $4 to $500, give or take. And yeah, I just want to make a really good financial decision for my future for after I graduate.

Starting point is 00:16:45 Love it. How far are you into school? I just finished my junior year, so I'm going into senior year, two more semesters of undergrad, and then two semesters of a credentialing program. Nice. How are you paying for that? My parents are paying for my college. They're paying as they go, so no student loans, no parent plus loans or anything like that. How are you living? Are you living on campus, or do you have an apartment? Tell us about that.

Starting point is 00:17:11 So for the first two years, I went to junior college, and I lived at home, so no rent or anything expenses that way. for the first two. This year, I moved down about an hour away from home and had an apartment. My parents paid my half of the rent. My boyfriend paid the other half of the rent. And I just used my work to pay for groceries, gas, utility, that kind of thing. Okay. So you currently have no debt whatsoever? I have a car payment with my parents and me as a co-signer, and there's about $6,700 left on that. But they make that payment as well. Great. So now you're down to $19,000 because we're going to pay that off today.

Starting point is 00:17:45 that's not a fun thing to have hanging around. It's going to cause a resentment at some point. So now you're debt-free with $19,000. Do you have anything in savings currently? Currently in savings, I have probably like $500. Great. So now we can beef that up to have a little emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Even if your expenses are low right now, having $10,000 as a minimum is a good baseline.

Starting point is 00:18:09 Okay. So now you're down to $9,000, and now you're at the spot where you're debt-free, you've got an emergency fund, you're investing. for the future so you could max out a Roth IRA for the year and still have money left over. Yes, I maxed out my Roth IRA. I've had it since 2024. And in 2024, I maxed it out the $7,000. And then last year, the $7,500. And then this year, I've only contributed $50 to it because I was living away from home and all of my money went to my living. Perfect. So you got another $7,450 you can put in there with $1,500 left over. I would just park that in a high-eal savings account

Starting point is 00:18:42 with your emergency fund and call it $1,000. 11 or 12 grand for your emergency fund. Because what's going to happen is once you graduate school, life's going to change drastically, and you're going to be very thankful to have some money on hand to cover. Maybe it's a car repair. Maybe it's a move across the country for a different job. Maybe it's a future down payment on a house.

Starting point is 00:19:03 And so those are shorter-term goals, so I would keep that more liquid. That's where my parents were kind of going. They wanted me to use the whole $25,000 as a down payment for a future house or as part of the down payment. and they said that they would match whatever I put down. That's a route you could go. I think both of those, I think what George laid out is a fair path. And I think there's also a path where you do keep the emergency fund separate, like you said.

Starting point is 00:19:27 And then with whatever's left over, you park that and maybe a separate high yield or you use a fair one's account and just earmark that money instead of putting it in a Roth. You just earmark it for house down payment. And if you have a plan of buying a house, you know, in five years or less, that's a great idea. And then if your parents want to match it, well, now you've got double the money. money. They're going to match it regardless. So I would become debt-free with an emergency fund before ever starting that savings for the down payment. Way to go. As a dad of young kids, I'm starting to think a lot more about the world they're growing up in and how I'll help them make sense of it as they get older. And that's why I like World Watch, a video news service for pre-teens and teens. Because one thing I

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Starting point is 00:21:05 at home because when my kids are old enough, I want them informed, not overwhelmed. And right now, you can get a 30-day free trial. Just go to worldwatch.com news slash Ramsey or use promo code Ramsey to get started. That's worldwatch.com news slash Ramsey. Hey, if you're our newer listener to the Ramsey show, one thing to know is that we answer every money question through a framework called the Baby Steps. There's seven baby steps, And if you're not familiar with them, you can check them out at the link in the description of this episode. And that is the key. That is the same thing that I use that Jade used to get out of debt and build wealth.

Starting point is 00:21:52 And it works every time you work it. So check that out in the description if you want to learn more. All right, Haven is in Knoxville, Tennessee up next. What's going on, Haven? Hi, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. What's going on?

Starting point is 00:22:06 Okay. So my question is, me and my husband took on debt about, two years ago the first time in our five-year marriage and it was all in a mortgage. But that was the first time in our marriage that we felt a lot of weight and heaviness and a stress. And even though it was still within Ramsey's perimeters, it still felt very heavy. Especially after I became a mom, I felt like removed. the option of me not being able to just be a mom anymore. I had to continue working because the mortgage was based on both of our incomes. And so we decided to try to put the house on the market,

Starting point is 00:22:57 go to a smaller rent. And our goal in the long run is to never go back in debt, but to instead take that house payment that we were making and put it into investments to hopefully one day buy a house outright. And I just wanted to know in the long run, especially with well-meaning people around us telling us, no, you need to buy a house, we need to buy a house. I just wanted to know in the long run that we were still going to be financially okay. Ooh, I will say we teach two methods of buying a house here. And the one that we love is when people have cash to buy a house outright. We don't get a whole lot of those calls, but there are people who do it. And then, of course, the other method is, to have a mortgage that's in the proper parameters, and we can talk about that later. For what you're saying, I think it can be good. The tough part about this and the variable here that's kind of the unknown is what will the house cost?

Starting point is 00:23:57 It's a moving goal post, right? So it's what will the house cost 10 years from now? And there's a big difference between five years from now and 10 years from now. And so I think the question you guys have to be asking is, how do you want your life to feel, which I think you have asked that question. And I also want to know how old you are because I'm, you know, taking 10 years to buy a house is not a bad thing. It took my husband and I 10 years to buy a house. And as long as you're able to do those things that cause you to build wealth in the process, I don't have a problem with it, but just know that there's a moving

Starting point is 00:24:33 goalpost there, George. And that's the unknown that can be really tough is we're depending on the market to give us the returns that we want, and we're depending on the housing market to be where we want it to be when we're ready to pull that money out. And so there's a lot of variables we can't control. So let's focus on the ones we can control. And one of those is saving enough to get the mortgage that's super reasonable, even if it's on his one income. So what is the mortgage payment today? $3,000. $3,000? Okay. And what do you guys bring home currently? Well, with my income, we were bringing in about 200. But like I said, I have some babies in the picture that I want to be with more.

Starting point is 00:25:17 So that could drop down some. To what? Let's say it was just his income. If it's just his income, it's going to vary, George, but it could be 150 to 200 because he's taken on more work so that I could work with. Got it. Now, let me just ask this question because the way you framed it was, you didn't feel good because we needed your income for the mortgage.

Starting point is 00:25:42 If there was a world where you could have a reasonable mortgage just on his income, would that be enough to relieve the stress while still getting you into the housing market? Potentially, because the biggest thing was when the babies came along, I was like, I want to be with them. But, I mean, yes, potentially. I think that would put stress on him, but maybe. Yeah, I think the ideal scenario is can we get his income up sustainably to the point where you guys can just stay in the house. That's option one.

Starting point is 00:26:14 That'll save you the most money because selling your home and buying a new one is going to cost you a whole lot in fees too on top of hassle. So the next option is you guys sell and rent for a while, but rent is going to cost you what in your area? $1,400. Okay. So what you really can save is the $1,600 and put that towards a down payment fund. Yes. So you're not taking your whole mortgage payment and saving it because you still have to pay for rent over here. Right?

Starting point is 00:26:43 Yeah. So $1,600, we'll do the math here. $1,600 for 12 months, you're going to save $19,000 a year. So how much are you going to get from the sale of your house if you sold it today? About $6,000. Wow. So you'll be lucky to break even on this thing. Yes.

Starting point is 00:27:01 Okay. So we're not making a lot of profit. So basically you're starting from scratch. and what would a house cost you if you bought one in the future? This was only a 1,300 square foot home, but probably around the same. The area, I mean, we looked at several homes. They were all upwards 250 to 300. This one was 355.

Starting point is 00:27:25 Okay. So to buy, let's say magically the home is still 350 grand years from now, at that rate, you're still talking about needing to save for 18 years. at 19 grand a year it's going to take you 18 years to save up 350 What about investing it into like the market Would that help?

Starting point is 00:27:46 It would help a little bit But it's not going to be magic Your savings rate is going to be the trick here When you're talking about a four to five year time horizon To buy a home Investing it isn't going to move the needle a ton If you're super lucky Like we've seen these last few years

Starting point is 00:28:01 You could double your money in about five or six years So 40 grand could turn to 80 80 grand can turn to 160. So you're still a ways away from that number. Had you run that math at all Haven? Or was this kind of, and it's okay if it was just kind of an idea that you wanted to run by us? Yeah, we did. We did run at some.

Starting point is 00:28:21 And we were also thinking, I mean, I've listened to the show several times. I hear you guys say a lot, like your income could potentially go up. I've seen his income, even just in the five years that we've been married, continued to go up. He's an electrician, and so it does the more work and the more his name gets out there, the more money he does have come in. Is it his own business that he's running, or is he work for someone? Yeah, yeah. So, George, did you plug them in? Do you see him there?

Starting point is 00:28:46 Yeah, I'm looking at if you, let's say you invested for five years. You did that 1,600 a year. You even started with 6 grand from the home sale. You'd have about 133 grand in there five years from now. No, George, we would start with about 60. We have 60 in an investment. Oh, good. I think he said six or seven.

Starting point is 00:29:01 When we got married, we had, you know, we had no debt and we just started investing. Is it in brokerage funds, not in retirement funds? Yeah, Roth IRAs and traditional. Okay, so that's, if it's in Roth IRAs and traditional IRAs, that's retirement. You're marked for retirement. So we wouldn't include that because that would be to your detriment. So the money would need to just be invested in a normal brokerage account. Probably I just throw it in an index fund.

Starting point is 00:29:28 But with the money that you currently have available to you, and with a fair rate of return. Did you put 10% in there, George? That's where we're at. And we're not saying that to bust your bubble. And I kind of want to like shift the mood here because I absolutely think that there's a way that you can be in a home, that you can be in a home in a responsible way. That's not going to feel detrimental to you as a stay-at-home mom. And, you know, do this thing without having to wait 10 years.

Starting point is 00:29:56 I just think that it's going to require you guys to go, okay, the current house we have, maybe it's too much house for you. if you're staying home, that's fine. And if you decide to rent for a little while, while you save up a better down payment, that honestly, just, you know, woman to woman, that feels like a fair tradeoff to get you in a house where you're actually, you know, feeling the growth of equity, you're actually participating in the market and building wealth in that way versus waiting 10 years with more unknowns in the equation. So I would wait and see, I wouldn't rush to sell this house. I would see, do a budget, just based on his income, on the average, what would it? feel like to make a $3,000 mortgage payment if he's making $10 grand a month? Because I don't want you

Starting point is 00:30:37 to feel like you have to sell it. If it's 26% and Ramsey said 25%. It's not about that. It's, do you have enough margin to invest 15% for your future? Save up some for your kids' college. Put a little extra toward the mortgage. Those are the signs that you're doing well financially and that you didn't make a huge mistake with this home. So I love the heart that you want to stay home. You don't want to make a bad financial mistake. But I don't want you to feel a paranoid level about this purchase. You guys are doing great. Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade. Back to school season is here. And that means you've already got enough on your plate between dropping the kids off at school to taking them to practice,

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Starting point is 00:33:03 Google Play. Kirsten is in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Kirsten? Hi. Oh my gosh. I'm honored to talk to you guys. You won the lottery today. You got Jade. I did. I did. I love you guys both. So some background on my question is my husband and I are on four, five, and six. Our kids go to private school. You know, we're living our best lives, frankly. And we've been running the numbers with our financial advisor. And we need about $10 million to retire in about 30 years. And that's kind of our surplus number. at 15% we will be retiring with over 15 million at this rate. Heck yeah. Yeah, I know it's a tough place to be. But my question is we just don't want to live with a crazy surplus at the end of our lives. So we were thinking about pulling back about 5% and putting that towards the house so we can pay it off in like 7 to 8 years instead of about 13.

Starting point is 00:34:04 And I wanted to get your opinion on that. That number that you quoted, what percentage of your income is that you investing? Is that 15% or? Yeah, 15%. Okay. What's your household income? 328 on the basis, and then we get like 50 to 70 in bonuses. Fantastic.

Starting point is 00:34:23 Well, I love all these numbers. And what was the annual rate of return you guys were using to crunch this to get to that 15 million? Do you remember? 9%. So it was a little low. Yeah. Cool. Well, I love that.

Starting point is 00:34:36 We've never told anyone to stop investing to pay off the house earlier or to, hey, you're going to be funded later on. Because I don't know what the next 30 years holds for you. If I did, I would tell you absolutely do this. But you might want to retire 15 years from now, 20 years. Who knows what's going to happen? A health crisis, maybe it's for a good reason and you want to step away. But I just wouldn't put it all in that basket of, well, we're definitely going to have this income for the next 30 years. One person could get laid off and not have that income anymore.

Starting point is 00:35:06 and not be able to get a job that pays that much. I hope that's not the case, but I'm kind of a, I'm a glass half-full guy when it comes to what it could be, and I'm also a glass half-empty guy when it comes to preparing for what could be. It's just the nature of life. Life be life in. So how long would it take with your current fantastic income outside of your 15% to pay off the house? 13 years is what we currently have projected, but obviously that may change as our... What do you owe?

Starting point is 00:35:33 What do you owe on it? We owe about $600,000. Okay. And how much can you realistically put towards it? Could you up that from cutting expenses elsewhere in your budget, making this kind of money? We could probably, realistically, like I said, I think we're living a pretty nice life as is, but over 50% of our monthly income goes towards private school for the kids and then our donations. And then we've got our mortgage and other things.

Starting point is 00:36:03 So, like, realistically, outside of giving. in private school and investing in the mortgage, we're probably living on like 20% of our income, which is why we need such a low number compared to our actual income. Yeah. How old are you guys? 30. Okay. So, I mean, you highlighted something which is important to highlight, which is there are seasons of life, obviously seasons where there's daycare, there's kids in college, those tend to be

Starting point is 00:36:31 more expensive years that you really can't get around. But then there's values that you decide that you're going to sink money. into which are my kids are going to go to private school throughout their entire education. And when you make those choices, there's a trade-off involved, which means because I did this, now my margin is maybe significantly less, margin that I would have put towards the house or margin that I would have put towards a 529, those sorts of things. So just realize that you guys are making choices based on your family values. And when you do that, it's not just a choice. It's a trade-off. And I think that's probably what you're feeling saying that, okay, it's going to take us, because of that,

Starting point is 00:37:09 it's going to take us 13 years to pay off the mortgage. And because we want to continue to enjoy certain other niceties, it's going to take us 13 years. Which 13 years to pay off a mortgage, by the way, is, that's not small potatoes. Like, that's pretty impressive. Especially since you'll be 43 years old with a paid for, I'm guessing, million dollar plus home. Yes, yeah, the value's about $900,000 right now. So it's going to be way more than that 13 years from now. I don't think that's a bad thing. Yeah, looking at the full picture, I don't have any problem with you guys paying it off in 13 years versus eight years and freeing up that money a little bit sooner. Because cash flow isn't your problem right now.

Starting point is 00:37:47 And if you guys said, hey, we have this other thing we really want to do. We don't have the money for. We need to temporarily pause. I can make a case for that. But long term, just investing less because you don't think you'll need it, I'm going to go, hey, I'd rather you have five million extra that you can give to the places and people you want to give to because you're, you don't. you have the option. And so we took a call similar to this the other day, Jade, and Dave had a similar response. Dave could have stopped investing 30 years ago. He still invest to this day as a 65-year-old man who definitely doesn't eat another dollar. But it's because he wants to have options.

Starting point is 00:38:21 He wants to give even more and have even more impact and leaving even bigger inheritance to his children's children. And there's nothing wrong with that. And even if you did have 15 million, you can spend it from 60 to 90 if you want to. Yeah. And it also highlights. the nature of the baby steps how we teach them, which is, you know, steps four through seven really are about intentionality. You don't have to have that same speed and intensity that you had in baby steps one through three. And I think that we get that call a lot because people do the nature of what we teach. Everybody's like Ricky Bobby. They just want to go, they just want to go fast. And there does come a point where you can go, you know what, I can actually enjoy my life.

Starting point is 00:38:59 I can value private school. I can value family vacations. And if that means I pay off my mortgage and 11 years instead of six, that's okay. You're still winning at life if you pay off your mortgage in 11 or 12 years. If you paid off an under 15, that's a huge win in my book and you're doing better than most of America. Absolutely. Way to go. I like solving good problems. That's a good problem to have right there.

Starting point is 00:39:21 All right. Matthew's in Austin, Texas up next. What's going on, Matthew? Hey, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. Hey, just a quick question on 401K plans. My wife and I have worked at several companies over the last 10 years. And we have 401K plans kind of spread out everywhere, all different apps, things like that, and really wanted to consolidate it.

Starting point is 00:39:41 And to be honest, Gem and I and Clyde have been giving me conflicting stuff. So I really wanted to call and see what are my best options to consolidate everything in a safe way. I'm curious, what was the general consensus so far if you didn't call it? General consensus was to do an IRA rollover. but our contributions are split up between pre-tax and 401K Roth, and I'm not sure how to split that up or anything like that. I got you. I actually just did this for my wife not too long ago

Starting point is 00:40:12 because she left Ramsey to stay home with our kids after a nine-year career, and because her match portion was in traditional and her investment portion was in Roth, her contributions, what I did was create two different IRAs. So a rollover traditional IRA and a rollover Roth IRA. And so once, you know, I get that check from her old 401K, it goes into Vanguard into one portion and the other one to the other portion. So you just want to keep him in like kind. So a traditional portion needs to go in traditional rollover and same with the Roth. And if you do it that way, it wasn't all that complicated. I literally took a picture of the check on my phone and it deposited within a day. And just be sure when you say check, the check is not made out to you. You're not cashing out those funds in any way. Yeah, you should be able to do a direct rollover. I, for some reason, because my life is difficult, they had to actually send a check for, you know, in Vanguard's name to that account. In Vanguard's name. Yep.

Starting point is 00:41:05 And so that's the simplest way to do it. And you can do all of that into, if you have five old 401Ks that are all traditional, you can put that all into one rollover IRA. You don't need five different rollovers. Do they split it up for you, or is that something I have to figure out between what we've already done for 401K Roth versus what's already, but hasn't been taxed yet? They should be able to write the checks if you contact them, then they'll be separate checks because they're separate accounts completely with different account numbers. So once you get that, you should have two checks from every 401K if they had both Roth and traditional in them. Okay.

Starting point is 00:41:41 And if you need help with this, you can contact the SmartVestor Pro, and they'll walk you through the whole process and handle all those pieces because it can be scary. You're dealing with some big numbers here. You're like, oh, that's $160,000. I don't want to hit the wrong button. And so our investment pro can really help. You can jump on a Ramsey Solutions.com and give that a go. But yes, please, this is a PSA for anyone out there with a bunch of old 401K sitting around.

Starting point is 00:42:05 It is collecting dust and it's digging you with fees and it's probably not performing very well. So it's time. Contact them. Get that money out of there. Put it in an IRA that's in your control. That's your best option. George, there's an estimated 31.9 million of forgotten 401ks left behind. That's wild.

Starting point is 00:42:23 Don't forget, my friends. couldn't it? That's different than 20 bucks in the coat pocket. Hey guys, George Camel here. There are a lot of things you probably shouldn't ignore. Your check engine light, that weird smell in your fridge, the smoke detector that's been beeping for six days, and maybe most importantly, your phone bill. The things we ignore have a funny way of costing us the most. And your phone carrier is counting on you ignoring that overpriced bill month after month so they can keep charging you more and more. But that's not the case with Boost Mobile. You don't need to keep overpaying when you can pay just $25 a month for Boost Mobile's Unlimited plan.

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Starting point is 00:43:23 Stop overpaying for your phone service. go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey and make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com slash Ramsey. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on BoostMobile Unlimited Plan. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw, taking your calls at AAA 825-5-225. Mori is in Tampa, Florida. What's going on, Mori? How can we help?

Starting point is 00:43:57 Hey, y'all. Happy Friday. It's been a bit of a crazy year for him. me since January. I just want some help figuring out what would be, you know, what the next best step is for me. Yeah, lay out the crazy. What happened? Well, at the top of the year, I was kind of crushing it, man, you know, top performing portfolio at my job, you know, leaving the account management team. I had baby step one knocked out, which was, that was brutal. And I was working on step two. But then my old accord crapped out on me. And it would have cost more to fix it than I initially paid for it.

Starting point is 00:44:32 So I figured I'd get creative, but I used electric motorcycle because down here it's sunny all the time and not have to worry about the snow, right? But that was really done to avoid wiping my savings completely and, you know, trying to keep some momentum on step two. So that was really rough. But I actually ended up getting a promotion about two weeks later. So I thought we were looking good, man. And the nature of that business is more so urgent versus important, make money today type of thing. And the role they put me in was very experimental and more long-term stuff. and unfortunately they ended up laying me off two months later.

Starting point is 00:45:03 Oh, man. When was that? Yeah, it's pretty rough. I don't really want to, you know, I have a very strange name in a very known place, and I think these people are just kind of listening, and, you know, it's some sensitive stuff. How many months ago? Like, have you not had a job for months now? Yeah, that was in May, and I've been working on getting, you know, getting applications out,

Starting point is 00:45:25 but, I mean, I even applied for a part-time spot at a gas station, and I got shut down the other day and that's been really rough. Man. Okay. How much debt do you have? So through all that, I've got 27K and two cards, a personal loan and student loans, and that's what I was working on paying down and stuff too. Do you got two car loans? Cards, sorry, credit cards. Oh, credit cards. Okay, so no

Starting point is 00:45:52 car loan. Is it just you? Or is... No card, no car loan either. Is it just you or do you have kids, a wife, anybody else? Oh man, that's a rough part My lady and I are going through a breakup right now Oh man, I'm sorry to hear that Was this a girlfriend? Yes, yes sir So there's no real, you know

Starting point is 00:46:11 It's not a divorce proceeding or anything But you know, our lease is ending right now And it's been really rough Over the last couple months And so I've just been down in the dumps man To be honest with you, it's been It's been tough Yeah, I mean you're living in a country song right now

Starting point is 00:46:25 In the worst way So I'm so sorry you're going through it It's out the dirt roads and a beer, you know? Yeah, none of the things. fun parts. So what's next? Where are you going to live when this lease is up? I have two scenarios that I'm playing out of my head right now. Number one, one of my good friends has offered me a place on his, or in his guest room for three months. He gave me a, you know, solid tenure, and he tried to help me get back on my feet. But I'm looking at a

Starting point is 00:46:51 move back to the northeast to be close to family again, which is what I'm probably going to end up doing, is living with an aunt for a while. And then, um, jumping back on my feet from there. Are there more options in the northeast for what you do? Because I feel like much of where you decide to go needs to be based on the job market for what you are skilled to do. Yeah. I mean, being in account management and sales, it's kind of everywhere.

Starting point is 00:47:15 And then up in the northeast as well, I mean, I'm sure I could knock on some doors for somebody selling, you know, selling shoveling services, you know. It's just been tough. So you need, I think, there's two sides of this coin. I think there's the change of scenery because of what you've been through. And then there's the actual, where do I have the most opportunity? And I would spend some time really making sure that one is not, that the emotional side doesn't lead you to do something that maybe, may not be best for you work-wise. So I don't know the answer to that question. It's

Starting point is 00:47:51 just me putting that out there for you to be thinking through. Because I could see how a change of scenery would be nice. But if the truth is, there's more opportunity, I don't know in the Florida area, then maybe you should stay in that area. So think through that because you will get a change of scenery simply by moving into a new apartment wherever that is, right? Yeah, I'm not mad about the fresh start. I think that's great. We're going to be a little strategic about it because right now we're moving out of weakness

Starting point is 00:48:14 and desperation and not out of a place of strength. And so I would be applying for jobs in the Northeast around where your aunt is and going, okay, what are the opportunities there? Who do I know there? Who does my aunt know there? And kind of using that to, you know, once you land the job, now you know. There's income there. and at the place I'm going to be.

Starting point is 00:48:30 So you know your next step. Right now you're sort of floundering because you don't even know what day it is. Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, you know, I like to think I got my bearings, you know. But yeah, you're 100% spot on with that, man. And you mentioned a phrase in there, fresh start, which is something that I wanted to ask for some counsel about.

Starting point is 00:48:49 It was recommended to me because my severance right now and I currently have no monthly income to explore a potential Chapter 7 bankruptcy, but I don't know what to even. start looking into. Well, how much severance did you have? They gave me a month. Okay, one month. It was like, yeah, it was like 5K worth. And that was, I mean, yeah, I don't think you're anywhere near bankruptcy. I think you've just fallen on a hard time. And I think it's hard in multiple ways. Like we said, it's emotionally, it's a blow to your confidence. Losing a job in some ways is akin to

Starting point is 00:49:21 grief of a loved one. It can really feel that way, especially when you were really counting on it and when it came out of the blue. So I think, I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, do not want to minimize what you're feeling on an emotional level. But I think that there are some practical things that you can do today that will give you a little bit of hope. First off, we're going to send you, Ken Coleman's find the work you're wired to do because you do have a set of skills and they've given you a level of success. And chances are those same skills can be translated into other career fields that you're just not thinking of right now because you're not in the clearest state of mind. Right. So that's going to help you do that. And then tonight,

Starting point is 00:49:56 just a personal bit of homework that I'd love for you to do is I would take the time and I would write down everyone you know who know someone else that might can lead to a job. So let your goal be to write down the names of 10 people. And over this weekend, you're going to call up 10 people and be like, hey, I'm really looking. These are my skills. Do you know of anybody? Is grandma looking? Is auntie looking? Do you have, you know, your buddy will, like, whoever it is, just call these people up and put your name out there because you will be surprised. at how things like that travel. And that's really the way that you find opportunities is through the people that you know in the network that you have. So that might feel like, Jay, that's not going to do anything. But trust me, just do that bit of homework and write down those names and call up those people

Starting point is 00:50:42 because it will make, if nothing less, it will make you feel better that you're putting in a different type of effort. Yeah, right. And sending 100 texts is going to go way further than applying for 100 digital resumes in another pile somewhere. Yeah. And to Georgia's point, to George's point, don't text them, call them, call them on the phone and say, hey, I'm just, I'm looking right now. I'm casting my net out. Here's what I've done. I know that you do XYZ. Can you think of anything and really push, like, press in and see what's out there. I think that'll help you out. That's what I would do tonight.

Starting point is 00:51:16 But this is one step at a time. Right now, you're just trying to cover the four walls and get through the end of the lease and put food on the table. So I'd be doing gig work. I'd be signing up for every app under the sun. walking dogs, you name it. Health sitting, pet sitting, find out who in your community needs anything and you go do it and treat them well and all of a sudden you get to survive the next day and the next and the next. And hopefully you can find a part-time job

Starting point is 00:51:40 that leads to the full-time job and then we can make this move. But right now, man, I don't know how you're going to e-bike your way all the way to your aunt's house in the Northeast. We don't have money to do that. So we've got to figure out just the next right step. So hang on the line. We're going to send you, find the work

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Starting point is 00:53:20 not just park your cash. Go to fairwins.org slash Ramsey to open your smart bundle and start making progress today. That's fairwins.org. slash Ramsey, insured by the NCUA. Elizabeth is up next in Nashville, just down the road. What's going on, Elizabeth? Hi, I am.

Starting point is 00:53:52 My husband and I are 100K in debt, and we just found out we're pregnant. Whoa. I feel like we need to make some radical decisions in order to make this work. We also have a four-month-old. You have a what? Four-month-old? A four-month-old. Okay.

Starting point is 00:54:07 And we, just to give you, we live in Nashville that we're from Minnesota. And we originally planned to move back to Minnesota after we got our debt paid off because Nashville doesn't have state taxes, but Minnesota does. But now we're two under one. So that is literally the only reason just to avoid state tax? Yeah. The taxes, they have a state income tax. Uh-huh.

Starting point is 00:54:43 So that's why you moved here? You said you're trying to move back? We've been in Nashville for five years, but obviously being closer to family. Okay, so being closer to family. So now that you have another one on the way, you're like, hey, it'd be easier to be closer to family. Yes. Okay. What do you guys make?

Starting point is 00:55:00 So hard. 120,000. All right. And you said you have 180,000 in consumer debt? Yeah. Tell us about that 180. What is that? It's 150 student loans.

Starting point is 00:55:16 And then two, my son's medical bill is my medical bill. And then a car for $7,000. And then another medical bill for $3,000. Okay. What are all these medical bills for? Birth. Birth. Just all from birth.

Starting point is 00:55:36 And the insurance didn't cover it? Yeah, they didn't cover that little bit. They covered everything else, though. Okay. The student loans, is that all one person or is that both of you combined? It's minus 49,100 and his is the rest. Okay. Are you guys using those degrees?

Starting point is 00:55:57 I have paused. I have paused continuing my education until we get out of debt because we don't want to take out anymore. And then he was going to be using his degree. but we couldn't afford him to transfer to where he would lose his health insurance. Oh, boy. So what are you guys doing for work, not if you're not in your fields? He's a high school teacher. He was going to be going to the college atmosphere for recruitment,

Starting point is 00:56:27 but he's staying in the high school for now, and then I work in accounting. And what were you going to do? I was going to actually get my accounting degree. Oh, boy. Okay, okay. So. For now, because I don't want to take out any more debt. Got it.

Starting point is 00:56:44 And the good news is there's an upside there for both of you career-wise that we could probably get to pretty easily once we get this cleaned up. Okay. So have you guys made progress thus far on the debt? We started this June 12th. We started on our journey and we've paid off $5,100 so far. Good. And how much do you guys have in savings right now?

Starting point is 00:57:08 Just the baby step. You got a thousand bucks, started emergency fund. Good, baby step one. And then debt snowballing this, what's the next smallest debt you have to pay off? $300 student loan. Good. Okay, so we got some little ones, some ankle biters, we can start knocking out. When you guys do your margin, when you do your every dollar budget every month,

Starting point is 00:57:30 how much margin do you see there? After minimums. Right now it is $700, $400. $747.39. I've been on this. Look at this. Way to go. See, America, that is the type of answer we're looking for. This is a person who's on top of their numbers.

Starting point is 00:57:49 You get down to the decimal. I know you're getting out of debt. I know that's right. Okay, so that's on top of minimum payments and all of your living expenses. You got an extra $750. And that's just with our income. I've been doing the list, and I've been doing like 15 to 20 hours of list, and then I started house cleaning.

Starting point is 00:58:10 Wow, good for you. And it's just, I thought there was a light, and I'm like, sorry. That's okay. It's okay. You're doing a lot, and then it sounds like this pregnancy was unexpected. Am I right? Yeah. Out of the blue, and it's kind of thrown, I mean, as wonderful it is for a baby to come into this world,

Starting point is 00:58:32 it's also a little bit of a wrench in your plans. So totally, we're with you. We get it. Okay, and we're going to help you go through it. Because you've still got time, right? How far along are you? Five weeks. Okay, so this baby's got time to cook.

Starting point is 00:58:51 You still have time to make a big impact here, right? And if it slows down the debt payoff by a little bit, that's okay. The baby's still a blessing, and if it takes you five years instead of 4.6, we're going to still call that a win. Yeah. Okay. It's like you and like however many people are listening, no, but nobody else knows. Well, I won't tell anybody if you don't. Secret safe here.

Starting point is 00:59:18 You guys are on the right track with the 747. That's margin just from your normal jobs. And then with you doing all this extra side work. And I'm guessing your husband's doing some side work too, right? Yeah. We don't see each other. It's the one's in with the baby and they're out to go do something. And what do those side hustles combined bring in?

Starting point is 00:59:37 last month we brought in 1900 and again I point to this call again Elizabeth because you guys are doing exactly what we tell people to do which is you can increase your income $2,000 is fabulous and if you add that to the 747

Starting point is 00:59:56 this is how it's done and so now it's all about taking the number that you're out and running it backwards and saying okay if we continue to chunk this at the next series of debts And then once those are freed up, that money adds to the snowball. Before you know it, your snowball is going to be at like $4,000 or $5,000. Am I wrong or am I right? No, you're right.

Starting point is 01:00:17 Yeah. And it's okay. If you pause the debt snowball for a little bit to stack up cash until the baby is here and healthy and safe, that's okay. I know it hurts because you're seeing the interests go up after you've been trying to knock it all down. But right now, you're in just that sort of storm stork mode. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:00:34 And you want to learn from last time because it sounds like last. time you guys didn't have that emergency fund there, that stork mode fund, and you got hit with some medical bills. So this time, I would be stacking up at least your deductible, your out-of-pocket max is what I would shoot for. It might be a thousand bucks a month for the next eight months, and we're not going to do extra payments on the debts. But at least then you've got, you know, nine, ten grand right there to protect you until you guys are home safe. And then if everything's great, just hit play and apply that nine extra grand towards your debts. Okay. So it's a temporary setback.

Starting point is 01:01:06 as far as your debt payoff journey. And then are you guys going to move anyways so that family can help take care of the kids and you continue working? Our original plan was to move once we were completely out of debt and I was hoping to have that done in three years. And four years. And I'm thinking if we move now,

Starting point is 01:01:26 well, not now. We can't afford it now. That's insane. Well, and you need jobs, right, or are your jobs remote? He's in high school, so... Yeah, no, we would need jobs. So what's the game plan for child care? What are you thinking?

Starting point is 01:01:41 The baby would have to go to daycare because we can't afford not to both work. But it's just figuring out what to do because daycare is going to be $16 to $2,000. Yeah. For both kids? Or one? Because you got a four-month-old too, right? His daycare, I am very blessed. His daycare is only $800.

Starting point is 01:02:03 Good. Okay. Wonderful. But then due to some complications, formulas, $400 a month. Oh, wow. When will that budget line item end? When he's a year. Okay. So what you could do, if you were to move, let me just get the facts here. If you were to move, would you have a family member that would watch them instead, or that's still not an option? I think so, but I don't have that 100% nail down.

Starting point is 01:02:35 know in the past our friends have, not friends, our family had said that they would babysit if we moved back. I would check into that. I would check in to see if that offer is still good because if it is, then I might, that might motivate me to start looking at the job, you know, start the job hunt, you know, back in Minnesota and see what's good over there. Either way, I think you guys, this is an emotional time, but I think if you just take it one day at a time and take it one baby step at a time, I think that you guys are going to work your way through this. And it sounds like a lot right now, but each day, that pressure is going to relieve just a little bit every time you take a step in the next right direction.

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Starting point is 01:04:31 Use code date night. Angel.com slash Ramsey promo code date night. I can't believe it. The 27 Ramsey Gold Planner is here and now available at the lowest price we'll offer $35.97. Wow. Not even 36.

Starting point is 01:04:59 For a limited time only. For a limited time only, George. Well, they up it as time goes on as we get closer to the new year. So this planner is more practical than ever before. We got brand new content from Jade Warshaar right here next to me, racial Cruz, Dr. John Deloney, plus goal-setting guidance and clear action steps to keep your momentum going all year long. And you did some new content for this as well.

Starting point is 01:05:18 I did. Every year we do new content in it. So it's really good. And like George said, don't wait. You want to grab it by August 23rd because that's when the $3597 price goes away. So don't be mad on August 24th. Don't come at me. Yeah. And Black Friday, if you think, I'll just wait for Black Friday. Don't wait because no price is going to beat the price today. $35.97 cents a very precise price. So get yours today at ramsysolutions.com slash store. Or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, just click that link in the description. I need a copy of that. Can you sneak me one or do I got to pay too?

Starting point is 01:05:49 They have one. I have one. They're hard to get your hands on. I know. I don't just give them out willy-nilly around here. I'm not giving you mine, George. I got a pony up the cash. Matt is in Chicago up next. What's going on, Matt? Hi, guys. I'm just curious. For the last six months, I've been working about seven days a week, 12 hours a day to pay off about $72,000 in debt. Wow. How far have you gotten?

Starting point is 01:06:12 I'm done. I got my debt paid off. I got my emergency fund and I got a Costa Rica trip planned for next year that's already paid off. That's what I'm talking about. Hold on a second. I just, I got to bust in and say this really quick because this again, Matt, you're doing the thing.

Starting point is 01:06:33 Matt, just let me take a quick second to say this. I saw some people on social media who were bashing some of our content saying you can't do it. You can't pay off debt. You can't buy a house. You can't save up. And look at Matt. He just worked really hard for 12-hour days

Starting point is 01:06:51 and he paid off $72,000 of debt. Stop telling me folks can't do this. People do it every day. Way to go, Matt. Keep going. All right. So basically, well, about the house part, that's, I guess, part of my question. So my fiance is, amazing woman. She's been supportive of me through all of this. I mean, she also works too. So basically, I want to kind of keep going and pay off my house early. By the time I'm 40,

Starting point is 01:07:18 I'm 37, almost 38 right now. And I kind of made a deal with her that I'd take Saturdays off, but I'd still be working an insane amount of hours. But I really want to get my house paid off by the time I'm 40. I want to be 100% death 3 by then. Okay. And this is still 12-hour days. 12-hour days just taking one day off. Yeah. You slacker. Come on, Matt. Well, right now, too, is like the overtime's here. I don't know 100% if the overtime's going to stay around.

Starting point is 01:07:49 Who knows if another COVID happens or anything like that? I mean, do you really think you can sustain that, though, 12-hour days, six days a week for three years? Is that sustainable? I'm a beast. Yeah, I could do it. When are you guys getting married? So actually we're coming to Tennessee, and it's supposed to be January. Supposed to be. Well, like, do you have a date?

Starting point is 01:08:13 Or are you just going to roll up to the courthouse? It's going to be the end of January. We just haven't finalized everything with, like, the venue, what exact date it's going to be. But it's like the last week of January. Okay, wonderful. Because I'm just thinking through this. Then you're going to have two incomes, which is going to speed up the process, which might mean you can then slow down.

Starting point is 01:08:30 That's what I'm thinking too. You guys are going to hate that part of it anyways because she lives, me and we already do that we have so that part you guys don't like so she's helping you pay off your mortgage she is yes she's paying both so like yeah I know she makes about 2,800 a month take home like that's what she brings home so she's pretty much paying like the mortgage and I'm paying everything else like I bring home about 95 base but with all this overtime I'm projected to hit around 200,000 this year and I want to kind of keep it going let me just throw this out here done. Let me just throw this out here because it's, it has to be said. So I will say this. I mean,

Starting point is 01:09:11 obviously, if you ask us, Ramsey opinion, we're going to say, hey, if you guys are not married yet, you should not combine your, your monies in this way. It's, it's, it's just an invitation for a disaster. But if you are, like, if you're going to just be like, hey, that's just not my way of thinking I am going to move in with this person and we are going to combine money, at the very least, can you at least just sign a cohabitation agreement and something that's going to protect both of you in case something were to happen? Please just do something like that

Starting point is 01:09:39 so that there's some legality to this and so that nobody gets burned if for some reason something should happen and you should go your separate ways. I'm just going to throw that out there for anybody listening. It's important to protect yourself if you're going to do something

Starting point is 01:09:53 that is somewhat financially reckless. Fair enough? Yeah, I understand that part too. The house is only in my name. And it's so, I mean, I guess that part's kind of... I know, but if you were to go separate ways and she's put all of this money onto your mortgage that's in your name, that's at a detriment to her. So she needs to have something in writing that would say, hey, I get this money back or whatever that case. Protect yourselves if you guys are going to do this outside of the law.

Starting point is 01:10:20 Put some law around you is what I'm saying. Yeah, agreed. I guess her part of that is $28,000 of that debt I paid off was hers. So it's like kind of a tradeoff. But for both... That's what I'm saying for both of you. Because you guys are doing this in such a crazy fashion, you're making headway. Like, I don't want to take away from the fact that you're paying off debt, but the way that

Starting point is 01:10:40 you're doing it is in a reckless fashion. No, 100%. I know how you guys feel about that. Yeah. So here's what we teach, and here's the way I live my life. Once you get out of Baby Step 3, you're moving from intensity to intentionality. And I'm like you, Matt. I paid off my house.

Starting point is 01:10:56 We did it in 26 months. The goal was four years. We were crazy. My wife and I both were like, let's just go for it. And we had both a very aligned vision for that. But it was a pretty small mortgage at the time. We put like almost 50% down. And so there wasn't much to go.

Starting point is 01:11:11 And it didn't crush our life. I was not working 80 hours a week. I don't even know if I was doing side hustles at the time. So it was a pretty low stakes way to live. I'm worried that you're going to burn out or at least she's going to get burnt out on you, never being home. And so I think there is a happy medium here of you working a reasonable amount going, All right, my goal is three years.

Starting point is 01:11:31 If it takes four or five, it's going to be okay. I don't need to work Saturdays and Sundays and work till 9 p.m. every day. Like, I know you're capable of that. It's not a sustainable thing to do for the next three years on top of what you've already done. Yeah, it is going to cost you something. Whether it's your physical health, mental health, your relationship. Yeah, she's on the same page as you. She wants to spend more time and stuff.

Starting point is 01:11:56 That's why I was trying to take the Saturdays off and everything, and we still do trips and vacations and everything like that. I just really wanted to get this done. Now, I do think that you should be really intentional about putting extra towards a mortgage. I don't think any of us are saying by any means not to have that as a very clear goal, but we're just saying the speed can slow down a little bit because you will have a new marriage. And that requires a lot of time and intentionality as well. And you guys will both make more money over time.

Starting point is 01:12:24 So you might end up hitting the goal even if you slow down. that's what I found happens. If you guys are aligned from the get-go with this marriage, you're going to hit the goal if you said it. And so I would definitely slow down if I were in your shoes because we care about you, she cares about you. And you've got time.

Starting point is 01:12:40 Yeah, this is a self-imposed goal. They're like, I'm just, man, I want to do it. It's okay if it happens at 41. No one's mad at you. Yeah, I guess that's a comparison is the FIFA joy type deal. I hear some of these people that are younger than you have and all this stuff done. So I just really want to be done. And there's people older than

Starting point is 01:12:56 that wish they were where you're at. And so it's, it's always a good reminder. There's an old Craig Groschell quote. Pastor Craig says this, Jade. It's something to that. I'm going to butcher it. I know what you're going for. Comparison will either make you feel inferior or superior and neither honors God. Something to that effect. I think that you're pretty, I think that's right. Like either, well, I'm better than them because I compared or I'm not as good as. Yeah. Because I compared. And, you know, whether your person or faith or not, it's just unhealthy. Yeah. I think that's right. And so it's a good reminder that no one is setting this goal but you, and it's great to be better than you were yesterday and beat your personal best, but don't do it in a way that causes you to become a workaholic

Starting point is 01:13:36 or unhealthy and unbalanced. Yeah, and it's the same. I mean, we've hit on this a couple of times already this show about making sure to make that shift from intentional, from intensity to boy, say it for me. From intensity to intentionality. Thank you. My goodness gracious. But, you know, there are some times where people call in and they've just, they've never been in debt or they never really had to go through Baby Step 2. And those people, if they want to crush it through their house, that doesn't really bother me because they didn't have that time period where they spent, you know, months or years in a slog. And so if you want to do that, that doesn't really bother me too much. Practical ways to save time and mental energy, especially during the summer when life gets busy.

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Starting point is 01:16:20 I'm debt free, have a fully funded emergency fund, and I'm saving for a down payment on a house. I do need to purchase a new car. Can I use my emergency fund for that? Ooh. Wow. Yeah. I mean, we would advise you against using your emergency fund to pay for a brand new car. and we would say to just start a sinking fund instead,

Starting point is 01:16:39 you can set aside a monthly amount until you have enough to pay cash for that car because you never want to raid your emergency fund for a planned purchase because then you're unprotected when a real emergency hits. Yeah, here's the three questions to ask. Is this urgent? Is this necessary? Is it unexpected? And the truth is, this is none of those things.

Starting point is 01:16:58 So don't use your emergency fund, use money outside of that and get the car you can afford and then upgrade with cash over time. So check out Ask Ramsey. It'll walk you through your financial goals based on your specific situation. You can input all of your numbers, and it's going to give you somehow better advice than you we get on this show. I know that you may not think it's possible, but it will do it.

Starting point is 01:17:19 So get your question answered today, Ramsey Solutions.com or click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Diane is in Cleveland up next. Diane, welcome to the show. Thank you. I have a bit of a conundrum. My husband, after 23 years of marriage, is divorcing me, and I need to know how to start over. He was always the breadwinner, and now I'm left in my 50s starting over financially, and don't really know what that's going to look like. So I just am calling in for help about, you know, we don't have any debt.

Starting point is 01:18:02 Our cars are paid off. and we have a big nest egg, but now the attorneys are fighting over this. And so I don't know. I'm so sorry, Diane. So we're already at that stage. We're at the attorney's fighting stage of this thing. Yes, and it just started in April, and he filed, and I don't even know for what. So you don't know what happened?

Starting point is 01:18:26 It was just random? Well, there's, you know, people that aren't in the marriage, and I confronts. wanted it and, you know, and now we started counseling at a Christian counselor, and that didn't go anywhere. And so now he filed. And so 23 years later, here we are, you know, and I have to think, what am I going to do with my life? I have a master's degree, but I wasn't using it. What was your master's in? It's in design. I'm an art educator. And so, you know, now I've always been, supporting his corporate job, him climbing the ladder and, you know, with bonuses and everything else.

Starting point is 01:19:11 So now, you know, way over six figures. So here we are. Well, the good news is there's no debt, which is a good thing. And you said there's a big nest egg. How much is the nest egg? 160. Okay. Do you guys have kids? No, we never, you know, he didn't want that. So, you know. $160,000 is in retirement? No, it's just there.

Starting point is 01:19:40 Retirement is well over, you know, millions. Okay. So 160K liquid and tell us how much is in retirement. Do you know? I don't. He put it in an affidavit and I didn't know that was even what I didn't even know that we had that. Okay. So now it's a matter like everybody's like discovery and I'm like, what is that?

Starting point is 01:20:02 you know, so... Putting all the cards on the table. Yeah, so everybody, by the time this is finished, you're going to know every dime of what's out there, which is a good thing, and you're probably going to be shocked by a lot. But it sounds like, I mean, it's a little different for every state, but like I said, the good news is there's no debt, and hopefully you're entitled to half of everything that's going on here.

Starting point is 01:20:23 At least that's what I'd be fighting for. And potentially some alimony? Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I want to move. He's not saying much, and that's what I could. called in, I was like my attorney's like saying, you know, you owe me this, but I haven't heard anything. I don't know what, I don't know the process. I don't know the steps. I've never been married before. I've never been divorced. Sure. Did your attorney come recommended or is it just somebody

Starting point is 01:20:49 that you selected? Yeah, it's just somebody I selected. Okay. It might be, it might be time to start talking with friends and family and people in your community about a good divorce attorney. And if you don't like the one have, you can fire them and move on to someone else because it sounds like you want more of an understanding of what's taking place. And I could understand that. And that's, I feel very in the dark and they just say, I afford it in an email. Here's another, I want another $5,000. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you're going to pay for every phone call, every text, every email. And so if you don't feel like you're getting the information, just a basic level of communication, then you don't have to continue on with that person. They work for you. And so you want to make sure that you know what's going on at all times.

Starting point is 01:21:37 I'm getting bullied a little bit. And it's so it's up, you know. Is he still living at the house? Are you guys? No, I'm the only one living there. I don't even know where he is at this point. He's disappeared in April. So, yeah. Okay. And are you making payments for all the bills? That's what the attorney agreed to, but I don't have a job. So I'm like, Do you have a bank account or access to one? We have a joint and I moved so that I could have retirement money because I want to move to Florida because I need to get away from that situation. Okay, so I think the fair thing for you to do right now is I wouldn't make any major moves, right?

Starting point is 01:22:22 Now's not the time to move to Florida and now's not the time to buy another house, right? This still needs to be sorted out. wait till the dust settles. Yeah, wait till the dust settles on this. And I think that the two pieces, based on you, based off what I hear and the way you sound, I think you need two things. I think, number one, you need to find somebody who's a good friend who can help you advocate for yourself in this situation. Somebody, if it's somebody from church, if it's someone who's been through this, you just need someone in your corner who can help calm you down, who can, you know, be in the meetings with you or help you interpret an email. that goes a really, really long way. And number two, based off what I hear, I don't know, and a good friend or advocate could help you, but I don't know that this lawyer is what you're looking for in terms of you ought to know what's going on in your own case.

Starting point is 01:23:17 And if you don't, one of two things is happening. Either they're not communicating well, or you're just not in a place where you can hear it and receive it. Yeah. And I'm not sure which is true, to be honest. with you. I don't either because I've never had to hire an attorney. So I'm really just kind of at a loss. And, you know, I've always gone with Dave Ramsey people because I know that they always educate you. Well, use the resources you have. If you receive a letter from your attorney, attorney, run it through Claude, run it through chat, GBT, and say, help me understand this.

Starting point is 01:23:49 What does this mean? What's likely coming next? Like, there's a lot of resources out there that can help you understand. And I think that you're just in an emotional state. And it can be hard to just interpret things in your normal way, like the way you used to before all of this happened. Yeah. You're just in a mental fog. Yeah. And so do that tonight. Take every single email that you've had.

Starting point is 01:24:13 Drop it in there and say, what does this mean? Put it in layman's terms. Tell me what's next. What are my options? And I think that's going to also give you some peace just to help you sort through this. And you said you've contacted some Ramsey Pro. So if you have a SmartVestra pro in your life or a Ramsey trusted agent, I would ask them. Say, hey, do you have any attorneys you would recommend in the area who can help me with? And they have an amazing Rolodex of people they've worked with that they trust that they can recommend. And that's going to be a big help. But we always say that divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction. And so now it becomes, all right, what are all the assets? Who's getting what? And then you guys, the lawyers, the judge is going to decide what's fair. So just know that you're not destitute. you will be okay. And your job now is to figure out what this next chapter for Diane looks like. And maybe it's, wow, I haven't worked in 20 years and now I'm going to go get licensed and be an art

Starting point is 01:25:04 educator at a local school in Florida. Who knows what that looks like? But I hope there's some silver lining here and you actually find some newfound freedom because it sounds like this marriage wasn't great for a while. This wasn't super sudden. Yeah, absolutely. And for anybody listening, I mean, it's a cautionary tale, right? We tell folks all the time that in a healthy marriage, there's that transparency. You should know what's going on with the money, what the assets are, what the debt is, what people are earning, all of those numbers. It's so important to be involved and to take a seat at the table so that if the worst happens, you're not left out in the cold and certainly in the dark. Yeah. Being close-fisted like that is a huge red flag for any marriage.

Starting point is 01:25:44 You want to know exactly what's going on. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw, taking your calls at AAA 825-5-2-2-25. Andrew is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. What's going on, Andrew? How can we help? Hey, hey, friends. So grateful to take your time here. I do appreciate it. So I am kind of in a pickle here. I have no money, and I have a vehicle that has 278,000 miles on it. I've been the one to put miles on it. I have about $20,000 in debt, and I'm going to need a new vehicle sooner than later, especially as we start getting to the winter season here. I really don't want to have to go in them anymore debt. Unfortunately, I just don't have any liquid cash or anything to buy a new vehicle.

Starting point is 01:26:59 Is it broken down? Has it stopped on you? So, no, I think the motor in this vehicle is going to outlast the frame. But it is certainly going to be at some point where it is going to go outside of a highway. It is a 2011 Ford Escape. I bought it 10 years ago. I was young and dumb. I just showed up on a car lot.

Starting point is 01:27:22 Next thing you knew, I was signing papers. And I bought a way over-priced vehicle. And so I have at least drove the wheels off of it. It's getting pretty close. Yeah. I mean, what's wrong with it today? Is it just the fact that it's got a lot of miles, and you see the riding on the wall, or is there an actual issue with it other than the miles today?

Starting point is 01:27:43 I mean, it's still roadworthy at the moment. There's quite a bit of rust in some spots where it's like, you know, I could lose a tire anytime I hit a bag pothole around here. Right. So you're more just thinking I need to start a sinking fund for a new car sooner than later. Correct. And unfortunately, I financially, like, I just, a lot of life has happened over the last year. I don't have an emergency fund. Like I've been, unfortunately, living paycheck to paycheck.

Starting point is 01:28:11 What happened over the last 10 years? Oh, so the last 10 years, I had some debt, and then I paid it off. In 2020, I bought an affordable house. It's less than a quarter of my take-home pay. And I bought it in 2020 where the interest rates were still good. So that at the moment is probably my best asset. Again, I just don't have anything liquid from that. What's your 20K in debt?

Starting point is 01:28:40 So some of it is, I just a lot of stupid. So I got a home equity line of credit to pay off a medical debt. And the only reason I got the extra money was to negotiate with the hospital, or excuse me, with the medical stuff. And it turns out that they don't charge your interest on that stuff. So now I'm paying interest. and variable interest and it's tied to your house. And the whole $20,000 is the HELOC? So I, right now, I pulled out $20,000 from the home equity line and credit.

Starting point is 01:29:16 $10,000 of that was going to be for a vehicle. But having that $10,000 that, you know, I was paying interest on my own money, even though I was borrowing it on the bank, I just put that all right back onto the debt on the, the, the, the HELL. And then the other 10... I'm confused. Where did it go? What magic trick did you do? So wait.

Starting point is 01:29:38 You took 20,000... What did you use the 10 grand on? So, yeah, I went to my bank. I pulled out a home equity line credit to pay for a vehicle for when that time came. And then I had took the 10 extra grand to negotiate with the hospital bill. So that 10 grand's gone. Where did the other 10 grand go? I put it back towards the helock.

Starting point is 01:30:04 So now what do you owe? That currently I only owe about $3,000 left. Okay, good. Well, you told me you had 20 grand of debt. So 3,000 of debt? That was just the first one. Got it. Got it.

Starting point is 01:30:17 Time is of the essence. So break it down just quick. Yeah, just tell us what you have today. Don't tell us the backstory just yet. Yeah, no. So I owe my aunt $8,000. And then another one is like, I'm sick. $600 behind in my gas bill and then another $800 on my water bill.

Starting point is 01:30:36 Okay. $800 behind on water, $600 behind on gas. Okay, tell us about your income because something is happening there that this, with your income that's causing these problems. So what kind of work do you do and what do you earn? I have a niche industry job. So I'm a professional silk screen printer. I will be making probably about $46,000 this year.

Starting point is 01:30:59 You have your own setup? Nope, I work for a shop. Okay. How many hours a week do you work? So I have unlimited overtime, technically, that I can get, but I've been doing about 43 to 44 hours, so not a whole lot of overtime. And with the overtime, that puts you at 46? No, that's base pay. Okay.

Starting point is 01:31:24 So 46 plus you can make overtime. And are you living alone? Yep. What's your mortgage payment? So my mortgage right now is at $515. $515? $515. That's it? Yes, sorry, $515. Okay, that's great. And what do you take home from the $46 plus overtime? What's an average month look like for you? So average weekly, I take up so about $2,800. Okay, $2,800. We know $5.15 is going to rent what's your other major expense because you don't have a car payment and it's

Starting point is 01:32:03 just you eating yeah that's pretty much it uh are you making payments to the ant or is this just sitting out there no that's unfortunately just sitting out there like my what like there's just i have so many like with the the gas and uh the water uh it's just been yeah why have you able to keep up with those bills yeah what caused you to get behind something uh so i was unemployed for a few months year. Then I had a leak with the water and all that stuff just kind of went to the wayside. Let me go back to today. So if I take your $2,800 and I subtract $515, now I've got $2,285. And let's say, what do you spend on groceries? Let's say you're going bare bones. Let's say you do $400 on groceries. You don't have a car payment. Can you reach over today and get current on the gas? Yes. I certainly could.

Starting point is 01:32:59 But then the problem is like my concern is like because next week I will like I'm not behind on my mortgage, but like I still have to pay my mortgage yet this month. No, no, no, I already, I already, let's pretend a clean month. Let's say you make $2,800 a month. And if I make $2,800 a month, I pay my rent. That's $5.15. Now I have $2,285. I'm going to go ahead and pay, let's pretend we pay $400 for groceries. Now I've got $1,885.

Starting point is 01:33:28 Now let's say, you know what, I'm going to pay the minimum that I can to keep my water on. Let's find out how much that is. How much can you pay minimum to keep the water on? probably about 130 bucks okay so i'll pay 130 there and then i'll say i really want to get the gas current so that's 600 and now i've still got 1155 to go you don't have a car payment you don't have kids in daycare maybe you have a cell phone i hope it's boost mobile and you're only paying like 30 bucks a month yeah do you see what i'm saying so what else is there that we're forgetting about what i think is that you don't have a budget and i think that you're doing some reckless spending and living for the

Starting point is 01:34:06 it. That's what I think. I am guilty. It's charged. Okay. Well, you open the call, Andrew, saying, hey, I've been doing stupid things. It's fine to do that and then learn from it. But it's been a decade of stupid. So you got to decide, Andrew, two years from now, where does he want to be? Financing a car, keeping up the cycle of payments, or finally breaking free going, you know what, I got to go make some money. I got to go do some overtime, get rid of this debt, never going to debt again, get an emergency fund, pay cash for a car and build some serious wealth. You got to decide, man. It's up to you. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime

Starting point is 01:35:06 with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, ask Ramsey. Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com. We want to hear from you guys. So jump in the comments on YouTube or Spotify and tell us what you're connecting with on today's show. Maybe you have thoughts. Maybe you would have told the call her something different. We want to hear about it in the comments. Our team enjoys seeing all of those. Appreciate that. All right, Jade, one of the biggest mistakes people make is they think they can just skip having a will because, well, I'm too young,

Starting point is 01:36:06 I'm healthy, I don't own enough, I'll never die. Whatever it is, you're wrong. A will helps protect your family and every single person needs one. It gives clear instructions and keeps your loved ones from having to guess what you wanted during a difficult time or even worse, having the government decide for you. So if you're ready to create a will and you are, go to mama bearlegalforms.com. That's mamabearleagel.com. I apologize. And if you're not sure where to start, you can text the word quiz to this number, 337-889, and we will help you figure out which option fits your situation. Chris is in Sacramento up next. Chris, welcome to the show. Hey, how you all doing? We're doing great. How can we help today?

Starting point is 01:36:45 All right, so we got a situation. I want to buy a boat, and my wife does not want to buy a boat. Oh, no. Okay. What a conundrum. A little background, right? So, no, definitely. other than the mortgage. Okay. We're making extra mortgage payment every month. So our mortgage is $3,900 a month. We pay $5,200 a month. Good. We bought a year and a half ago after we got out of all our credit card debt and everything. And yeah, it's just a grind. So we do out, you know, we do a house projects save up, right, and all that. So, you know, I see that, I see that we could buy a used both, you know, Not a new one.

Starting point is 01:37:30 How much money do you guys have to save for this? Well, none yet. It's in the conversations, right? So we're finishing up a backyard project that, you know, it was about like 25K, right? Okay. With not too many projects in the future. So the backyard project,

Starting point is 01:37:48 was that a project that you both wanted to do, the 25,000 on the backyard, or was that more her bag? No, no. It needed it. Grangeage was bad, all that, right? Water in the, the house. I mean, it's definitely, and

Starting point is 01:38:01 you know, we're ripping up the yard, we said, hey, let's make it nice, right? So we're looking a lot of the work. So you've worked with that. What about the boat? Is that something that you'll both get enjoyment out of, or is it just something that's really something you want? Is it more of a wants thing, or is it a

Starting point is 01:38:17 money thing? Well, so I definitely want one. It would be a basketball, a fishing boat. She enjoys being out in the water with me and goes fishing from time to time, but it would definitely be more like my thing, you know. Okay.

Starting point is 01:38:33 And how much would it cost? We're looking at like 10 to 12,000, you know, a DCE's boat to get us through, you know, five, 10 years and then look at a real nice dream boat later on, you know. And in her mind, spending that 10, 12, like, what's the opportunity cost? What does she feel like you guys are giving up on by spending that 10 to 12 grand or saving that up over time? I think ultimately we're being pretty a grand. towards the mortgage, and she wants to pay off the house.

Starting point is 01:39:02 So I think, you know, I don't want to speak for it, but I think at the end of the day, most of it is she thinks and feels that that money could go towards the mortgage. Okay. I would, if I were in your shoes, I would double check that and make sure that that's how she feels instead of guessing. I'd want to know, hey, where do you see us spending this money instead? Is it a vacation that you wish we were taking? Is it going to the house? Like, really get clarity on what the issue is with her on that? because that's the only way you guys are going to arrive at how this money is actually being spent.

Starting point is 01:39:33 I mean, for my two cents, I think it's great that you guys are making an extra payment on the house. I think that's a really fair place to be in Baby Step 6 is, you know, doubling the payment. I mean, I think that's pretty fabulous. Yeah. So 10 to 12 for the boat. She just feels like that's a waste of money from what I gather that could be going towards the mortgage. What's the ongoing cost of this? The ongoing cost of a boat?

Starting point is 01:39:58 like maintenance and whatnot? Yeah. Do you have something to haul it? Because that's where I go. Well, now I need a truck, babe. I got to haul the boat. Yeah. And now I need to have the gas and all that.

Starting point is 01:40:06 So what's your, do you have a full plan for how this is all going to shake down? So I still got to get a quote for insurance. The boat insurance is the number I don't have. But, you know, maintenance is relatively easy, especially since I do a lot of it myself. We have a toy out of Tacoma with 280,000 miles on it, right? So that thing will, I think will run forever, ideally. you know, so we do need to factor into the budget a little bit more. I would start a sinking fund for that truck while I'm at it.

Starting point is 01:40:33 As much as it'll keep going, there will be a day where it doesn't. And you're going to be, oh, I've got a finance a truck now. So as long as you guys are saying no to debt, then the total value of all the things with motors and wheels is no more than half your annual income. You're in good shape as far as the checkbox is here. So the alignment with the spouse is the final piece. What is your household income?

Starting point is 01:40:53 We're around 200 Awesome And what's the total value of the vehicles? It's just that Toyota Tacoma So 8 or 10,000 Oh it's your only vehicle We are both very lucky With our jobs

Starting point is 01:41:11 And company vehicles So we literally only have that Toyota Tacoma So you drive other cars But you don't have it Yeah Yeah I just sold my Toyota Rapp 4 because we just weren't using it. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:41:25 I mean, unless she's looking at the upkeep of this and thinking I don't like how this is going to affect our month-to-month budget, and again, I would run out those numbers and make sure you're talking about that. But other than that, I mean, financially, I don't see why you can't save up and do this, especially if you're doing it. It's a reasonable amount. If this is your hobby, this is where you want to spend your time and some money and it's in the budget, I would make a fake budget saying, hey, here's what life looks like when we have a boat.

Starting point is 01:41:51 and then see and try to get alignment on. What's the root of this? Why doesn't she want this to happen? Versus just trying to convince her. I think that's where we need to start talking to each other instead of missing each other. But good luck, man. Brett is in Cleveland up next.

Starting point is 01:42:05 What's going on, Brett? Hey, Jaden, George. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Yeah, I just had a question. So, Lord willing, next month, my wife and I will be debt-free and we'll move into baby steps four,

Starting point is 01:42:18 five, and six. Love that. We're really excited. We're excited about that. My question for you today is a couple years ago, a relative when they passed gave us three gold coins, one ounce each. And so we've had those, of course, gold going up in price. Should we sell those, the coins, which would basically give us our three-month emergency fund?

Starting point is 01:42:42 Or would you hang on to the gold since, you know, it could go up. I know it could go down, too. So just want to get your thoughts on that? Well, we're not fans of precious metals around here as an investment. So when you say, well, it could go up, that tells me we're sort of hoping and speculating it could go up. And gold out of all the things you could have is not, it's not crypto, right? We know that gold's going to hold some value. It'll always be there.

Starting point is 01:43:06 But I personally would be selling that thing instead of sacrificing for three more months or six more months or however long it would take you to get through Baby Step 3. Could you get what? I don't know what an ounce of gold is going for today. How much could you get for all three? Um, it's at like 4,200 a day. Okay. So at the beginning of week is at 4,000, then it's at 4,200 a day, which I think is great. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:43:28 I mean, if you were like, hey, dude, I'll write you a check for 12 grand that could fund an emergency fund today instead of you having to continue to sacrifice. I'm personally taking it, and I'm not going to miss out on what could have been, I would just, don't check gold prices after you sell it. That's what most people do. They go, oh, man, it's $4,500 now. And now you're driving yourself crazy looking at what could have. been. Right, right. Okay. Well, that's, yeah, and I thought we just put in the chairman's account with the 3% interest. It would, you know, then you're always kind of gaining. Yeah, you're at least keeping up with inflation. And I don't use gold as an investment. I just invest into the stock market.

Starting point is 01:44:04 And over time, the stock market is at a higher return than gold. Gold has averaged about 7.8% a year since 1971, where it stopped being tied to the dollar, which is not a bad return, but you can do better with less stress in the stock. market and there's a little less risk since it's not a physical thing you're trying to keep safe. Okay, good. That's what we were going to do. I just wanted to make sure I was thinking about right. So thank you guys very much. Absolutely. And there'll be egg on my face if there's an apocalypse where we only barter in gold one day, Jade. Who knows? I'm thinking like spoons and forks will probably be more. Yeah, I'm thinking ammo, fuel. Water. Yeah, weapons, water. That's going to be

Starting point is 01:44:44 useful. Shelter. Yeah. I've seen enough post-apocalyptic movies. I've never seen them ago. Well, bro, I got some gold. Listen, a fighting style. You better start brushing up on your... I do need to go to... Jiu-Jitsu. Is that what's hot right now? Jiu-jitsu?

Starting point is 01:44:58 Yeah. I think if you're into like MMA... Yeah, you lost me there. If I get kicked in the face, this is the moneymaker. All right, I can't afford that. Can't risk it. Hey guys, George Camel here. You ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show for it?

Starting point is 01:45:40 You run into Target for one thing and somehow walk out $87 later with toothpaste and emotional support candles. Just me? Okay. Well, that's the problem. Most people don't pay attention to how they spend their money, so it does whatever it wants. And that's why we created every dollar. It's a budgeting app that helps you create a simple plan for your money. Every dollar's simple, it's clear, and it helps track where your money's actually going. Plus, you get daily lessons, to do's and reminders along the way. It's like having a money coach in your pocket. Your money's been freelancing long enough. It's time to give every dollar a full-time job. Go download every dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play.

Starting point is 01:46:20 If your private student loans are in default, when you've fallen so far behind the loan is considered unpaid, Y-R-R-R-R-R-E-FI may be able to help. Why-R-R-R-E-F-I-R-E-F-R-E-F-Y in tough situations explore explore low, fixed-rate refinancing options that fit your budget. Go to Y-refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey, may not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Glenn in Pennsylvania. He says, what are your thoughts on self-opop?

Starting point is 01:46:55 cell phone plans where big companies lure you in for years to pay off. My wife and I never really thought about the monthly cost of paying off our cell phones. We just paid the monthly amount. This month we got our monthly bill and we're surprised at the new amount due to our phones being paid off. It's drastically lower than our normal monthly bill. Should we start saving now to purchase our phones outright the next time around? Short answer is yes. And Glenn, I love this question because this happened to me. I didn't even realize... They're sneaky these days. They're sneaky. I didn't even realize that our phones were not paid off. We had been out of debt and I'm like, woohoo, debt free. And then one day, you know, randomly I see the bill and it's a lot less. And I'm like, what happened? And then I

Starting point is 01:47:41 realized we were paying, still paying for our phones. I didn't even know that. So you're not alone on that. And yes, from now on, just whenever you go to upgrade your phone, hopefully it's not an Android, but whenever you go to upgrade your iPhone, you just pay cash for it and let that be that on that. But I did hear something, George, you'd probably be in the know on this. I feel like I heard that Apple is about to do away with that and you're just always like leasing your phone.

Starting point is 01:48:06 You lease the phone. Literally, they're calling it a lease. And so you have to make the payments. And then if you want it at the end, you have to pay the remaining balance that's left for that device, whether there's a laptop, a phone, whatever it is, or you can hand it back to Apple and restart the process. Man, I've seen everything at this point.

Starting point is 01:48:21 So it is brutal. So yes, if you got a payment plan on a depreciating asset, it is a type of debt because you have to pay that. Otherwise, it's not your phone until it's paid off. Yes. So to me, that is a form of debt. You can get sent to collections for these kinds of things. So I would definitely set up a sinking fund and pay cash for your new phones. And just like a car, just try to get something that's going to last you a couple of years at least.

Starting point is 01:48:43 Yeah. And don't upgrade every year because, listen, the 16 is really no better than the 15. It's really not. I couldn't even tell you what phone I have. And I agree with you so much, George, especially if you're in Baby Step 2. Just get whatever you can that makes the phone calls, that sends the text message. And on your service, you know, go as cheaply as you can because there's a lot of money to be had there. I meet people in the lobby, and it's my favorite when I see a single lens on the back of that iPhone.

Starting point is 01:49:07 I'm like, oh, man. They're a real one. I know that's right. Hang it on to that iPhone 4. Let's go. You know what? I could really go back to a flip phone. I really could.

Starting point is 01:49:14 I could be the person who has a flip phone that all it does is send phone calls and text messages. You know, Rachel Cruz's husband Winston did that. He's got a dumb phone. He likes it? The man is at peace. You know what? Sign me up. Like birds flock to him.

Starting point is 01:49:28 You know what I mean? Like the owls land on his shoulder. He is like one with nature now. I'm going to try it. Without a smartphone. I don't know if I could survive it. I'm too, I need to be Googling at all time. So I wouldn't survive long in the wilderness.

Starting point is 01:49:41 I think I take offense that people are calling them dumb phones. Well, smartphones. Because isn't it really the smarter way, George? Yeah, but it's the opposite of smart and it's a fine. any name. So just go with it, Jade. Don't ruin it. All right, Jennifer's in Phoenix up next. What's going on, Jennifer? Thanks for taking my call. Sure. I have a question regarding my 16-year-old, who's going to be 17 in about a month. So he is in his junior year of high school. He's a huge Dave Ramsey fan. He took financial literacy. They all have to take financial literacy their sophomore year. And they're

Starting point is 01:50:20 curriculums based off of Ramsey. And so he has become a huge fan of investing and compound interest. And now we listen to it in the car all the time. And you're super annoyed or? Yeah, I mean, I'm learning a lot. So everybody's a huge fan. They love my husband and my boys both love when Dave laughs at his own jokes or flips out on people for their bad decisions. So it's a good time.

Starting point is 01:50:51 We love it too. That's so funny. So what's the conundra? Great road trip. So he's been playing baseball since about eight years old. He just had his best season yet. He plays club year round and high school ball in the spring. And since he's done financial literacy, he's thinking that he's not confident that he's going to play

Starting point is 01:51:19 baseball in college. So he's thinking that he should quit baseball and start a part-time job and start earning money and investing and getting that compound interest to set himself up for the future. Okay. So if you sat down with him and said, why do you want to quit? He would say, I don't think I'm going to finish doing this in college, and I'd rather be working to start investing. Right. Okay. Yeah. And you want him to finish why? Why do you want him to stick through it through the end of high school? You only get this much time in childhood, right?

Starting point is 01:51:58 And then you're an adult and you have all the responsibilities. So it's not that we're not supporting him. Like he has some really great points. He was a little, he talked to me before he talked to his dad because he was a little nervous about dad. And I said, I love all of your points. And I said, now let's just really think about it. So we support him either way. we just are curious if we should go off the idea and say,

Starting point is 01:52:26 enjoy your childhood, play baseball. It's only going to be here for a few years and then think about investing. Or if we should support him in his idea to quit and start investing now. Are you guys doing well financially? Yeah, we're Ramseying it. But yes, we are. Do you have any debt? Yeah, we do.

Starting point is 01:52:51 Okay. I'm just wondering if he's all about investing, is there a way you can help him with that and go, hey, you know what? We're going to match whatever you put in or, hey, we're going to put in a thousand bucks this summer for you to get started investing, but we want you to keep playing baseball. What would he say? I think he would consider it. He also has told us like it feels a little bit more like a chore now. Well, that's what I was saying. Because you're positing it as, man, his childhood, I'm like, baseball at 17 is work. I mean, you're showing up to practice. You're showing up to practice. You're showing. up to every game. Is he good at baseball? Or is he not good? He's good. I don't know if he's college level good, but he's good.

Starting point is 01:53:32 But I mean, he plays in the game. He's not just sitting the bench. He plays. Yeah, he was in the top three stats of every single stat his coach shared. And was he complaining about baseball before he started learning all of this? And so this was coming either way? Or do you really feel like, do you really feel like, do you really feel like, like this kind of came out of the blue just because he learned about the compounding interest?

Starting point is 01:53:59 I know. He's always kind of had a love-hate relationship with it, but more love. He loves the social aspect of baseball. He loves the like camaraderie that it builds, but it's always been kind of a love-hate relationship, probably because we live in Arizona and it's really hot. Yeah. I mean, he can get camaraderie at work with coworkers. at the old ice cream shop. So here's my take. I'm going to just say it. You can take it or leave it.

Starting point is 01:54:29 I don't want him to resent you from making him play. I'd rather him, on his own volition, regret turning baseball down to go work. And the truth is, I don't think he's going to regret it. I think he's going to go get a job and go, wow, I feel like I'm stepping into adulthood. And there's responsibility here. There's discipline. You've got to show up. And it's going to prepare him for the future more than baseball will at this point. I think I disagree. I think I I think I have a conflicting view. Jade's forcing him to get out there on the field. If he's played all of these years and you don't feel like this was coming down the road,

Starting point is 01:55:02 I actually think that I would say, I think there's a world where he can do both, where he can play the season of baseball and finish out with his team. And then I think there's a world where when he's not, you know, in baseball training or in the season that he can work. And I think that there's something that comes from team sports that's very different than what he would get, you know, working at the grocery store or working at wherever he's working. And I think if he can get the best of both worlds, I think that really can create some well-roundedness.

Starting point is 01:55:31 Team sports are really important, not because of going pro or because of getting a college scholarship, but just what they build on the inside of you. And part of that is, you know, sticking to a task. So I think that there's something there. I don't think either is the wrong choice. I just think that you got two different views this time. I like letting him own.

Starting point is 01:55:51 the decision either way to let him feel like, all right, I'm an adult. I got to make peace with the decision I made. Good and bad. You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain. your options, so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand. Head to ramsysolutions.com slash smartvester to get connected. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros.

Starting point is 01:56:56 Learn more at ramsysysolutions.com slash smartvester. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 13. They are like trees planted along the riverbank, bearing fruit each season. Their leaves never wither, and they prosper and all they do. Peter Marshall said, when we longed for life without death, Difficulties remind us that oaks grow strong and contrary winds and diamonds are made under pressure. Boom. Under pressure. Thomas is in San Antonio, California. I didn't know that was, I'm learning a lot today.

Starting point is 01:57:39 What's going on, Thomas? Good. Thank you. Happy to be here. How are you all doing? We're doing great. How can we help today? Yeah, so my wife is, I'm very blessed.

Starting point is 01:57:50 She put her life on hold, her crossfit. athlete career on hold to put me through law school debt free. Awesome. Yes. And I'm graduating here soon with a great offer. But we have a net worth pretty much of zero right now. And so I want her to go back

Starting point is 01:58:11 and pursue that CrossFit career that I think she can attain. But she is a big fan of Ramsey and she wants us to get to step five at a down payment. So am I being irresponsible? You guys don't have an emergency fund yet? No, we do not.

Starting point is 01:58:34 And you're not investing and you are renting? We skimped it with in-laws during law school. Okay, but you're renting on your own now? As soon as I graduate, we will be renting. Got it. Okay. And so you are trying to get her to chase these dreams, but that would require her to not work.

Starting point is 01:58:54 for a season? Yes. Okay. What does that look like? I don't know the CrossFit world. I don't know if that's a shock looking at me. So explain to me what this track looks like. You know, she's already top 2000 in the world, and that's like top 1%.

Starting point is 01:59:11 But, you know, to get within the top 0.01%, that's a full-time job working out all day. So she's training as an athlete, not as a coach? Yes, as an athlete. Okay. And she would enter into competitions and potentially get money from that and sponsorships? How does the income stream work? Yes, exactly. I don't even care if it's an income stream for us.

Starting point is 01:59:38 I have a good offer that we will live off of just fine. I just want to, like, you know, pay her back for sacrificing. So you're saying we can live on my income, and she's saying, well, I'd like to live in a house first, instead of the in-laws. So let's get there before we start this dream. What is she doing now for work? She's a PT tech. Okay.

Starting point is 02:00:04 How much of this is your personal guilt for her sacrificing versus what she even wants to do at this point? Because if you're telling me, she's saying, no, I don't want to pursue that right now. I want to focus on whatever the next couple of baby steps are. If that's what she's saying she wants to do, that might be what she wants to do. Or are you just worried that she's going to have resentment later on in life? Yeah, that's a good point.

Starting point is 02:00:35 I'd say probably a little bit of both. We're both young, and this is like her prime time. This sounds like a date-night conversation where you guys sit down and you unpack what you're feeling and you ask her about what she's truly feeling and you guys really get a sense of where each other is at today instead of where it was in the past and making sure you're making up for lost time and all that. I think this is just a conversation you guys have to have.

Starting point is 02:01:08 Yes. And that's going to point to, okay, yes, we can continue to do some of these baby steps. The speed at which we do it might change if she decides, you know what, I do want to start, you know, pursuing this competition. You might be going slower, but it doesn't mean you have to stop in that you can't do any of the steps going forward until she's done. Yes. What does she make as a PT tech?

Starting point is 02:01:33 Like 35. Okay. And what will you be making with this offer? 200. Okay. Fantastic. So you would just live off your income. Because here's what I'm thinking.

Starting point is 02:01:46 She wants you guys to have the emergency fund, have the down payment. and if she stopped, it would slow down your goal by a little bit, but the lion's share of the income will be yours. Yes. So it's not like a maker break. If she pursues CrossFit and quits her job, it's not like I'll never own a house now. So I'm just trying to not make it this like huge A or B scenario. There's an option C, which is it takes us six months longer to save for the house.

Starting point is 02:02:13 And we're going to make other sacrifices in other areas to make this happen. So I would sit down, make a budget for what's... this is going to look like making, you know, 200 grand and then factor in taxes and factor in, we got to save the emergency fund. That's going to take this many months. Then we're going to save a down payment. That's going to take this many years. And then start to go, okay, here's what we're really giving up. Here's the opportunity cost of you pursuing this. And if you find that it's a couple of months, she might then go, oh, you know, I didn't think about it like that. I'm good to do this sooner rather than later. That's helpful. Thank you. I think just using

Starting point is 02:02:46 logic and facts, because everything right now is just like emotion on both sides. And I like the idea of the date night to just get some clarity, get all the emotion out, and then let's look at the facts. Yeah, and I just want to say something because he used some phrasing that I'm like, oh, gosh, I don't like that. You know, when you're building a life together with your spouse, each person is sacrificing to get to a shared vision, a shared outcome. Him becoming a lawyer is not just beneficial to him.

Starting point is 02:03:11 It's beneficial to the family unit. So his feeling of, I've got to pay her back for her sacrificing. It's like, I get what he's saying, but does that mean? make sense. It's like making sure that everybody, it's not about paying people back in a marriage. It's about both people sacrificing and both people doing things for the greater good. And dreams change too. I mean, she could have a kid and decide, you know what, I don't want to pursue this anymore. And she might stay home and that's fine too. But I like having the options through healthy budgeting and knowing what the numbers are. All right, May is in Phoenix up next.

Starting point is 02:03:45 May, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you so much for taking my call today. So my question is, I am thinking of going back to school for about 11 to 13 years. And I'm thinking, like, how should I prepare financially? I am 33 years old and still in $69,000 of debt. So I'm thinking, do I take the debt off completely before even thinking of this as an option. What are you going to go back to school to do? So I'm thinking of forensic pathologist, which will require medical school and basically be a doctor. Wow.

Starting point is 02:04:27 That's pretty intense. That's very cool. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Are you single? No, I'm married. Okay.

Starting point is 02:04:35 What does your spouse think about this plan? Of course, she thinks I can do anything. So she's like pushing me to do it. Of course, we want to get into like a little bit less of, Like have a little less debt before doing this. Is that the combined debt, the $69,000 or is that just you? Combined, 69. Okay.

Starting point is 02:04:56 Because I'm worried that you're not going to be able to work for 11 years, it sounds like. Yes and no. So I'm thinking of taking it slow. But yeah, I feel like when I get further down in the process, you know, that's going to be, I'm thinking I'll do whatever I can. Like if I have to work nights and, you know. What does your spouse earn? during the day.

Starting point is 02:05:19 She makes about 4 to 4,400 a month. So 4,500 a month, okay. And can you run your household just off of the 4,500 a month? Have you budgeted that out? We can if we're out of debt. If you're out of debt. Okay. That's a prerequisite.

Starting point is 02:05:40 No matter what happens, we're getting out of debt, no matter what's next. What is the 11 years of school going to cost? Um, that's another thing that I'm currently looking into. I don't know specifically, but, um, roughly about 14,000 a year. So we are, that's the thing that we're wanting to pay like out of pocket. Like, obviously not get into any more debt. So we're thinking, do we completely clear out our 69K before even trying to attempt this? You have to. Maybe. Okay. I think there's two things that have to be true. First, hear me say, I think this is a really cool goal. I love the fact that you're wanting to. to reinvent yourself and you're like, I'm willing to put in the time and effort to do it. That's number one. I think that George is exactly right. You got to pay off the $70,000 of debt first. And I think that's worth both of you hunkering down and doing whatever it takes to knock that out, full baby step style to get that done. And then from there, it's about saying, okay, during that

Starting point is 02:06:36 time, there's also got to be an increase of income along the way so that we can start to save up the $14,000 a year or at least get ahead of it so that we can cash flow it. And you your spouse is probably going to be bearing the brunt of that weight while you're in school. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

The Ramsey Show - Stop Giving Away Your Control

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