The Ramsey Show - Stop Letting Other People's Problems Ruin Your Finances

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey guys, it's James Childs, producer of The Ramsey Show. Hey, this week Dave and the personalities are living it up on the Ramsey Cruise, so we've put together a compilation of some of our favorite calls and segments from the last year. Regular shows are back next week. Hope you enjoy. What up? What up?

Starting point is 00:00:15 This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. I'm James Childs. I'm the host of The Ramsey Show. I'm the host of The Ramsey Show. I'm the host of The Ramsey Show. I'm the host of The Ramsey Show. I'm the host of The Ramsey Show.

Starting point is 00:00:23 I'm the host of The Ramsey Show. I'm the host of The Ramsey Show. I'm the host of The Ramsey Show. I'm the host of The Ramsey Show. I'm the host of The Ramsey Show. I'm the host of The Ramsey Show. What up, what up? This is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Delaney joined by the great George Campbell. Live from Nashville, Tennessee, we are taking your calls on your money, building wealth, doing the work that you love, and creating and sustaining and hanging on to great relationships. So glad that you're with us today we're taking live calls triple 8 8 2 5 5 2 2 5 it's triple 8 8 2 5 5 2 2 5 we have a packed house out here in the audience good to

Starting point is 00:00:56 see everybody coming to visit us here in it actually we're in Franklin just north of Nashville but we are glad you are with us as well. Let's go out to Milwaukee. No, no, no, no. Let's go out to Dallas, detone and talk to Cyrus. Hey, Cyrus, what's up, man? Hello, how you doing? Doing outstanding, my man. What's up? So, yes, I am 26. I have $160,000 with the debt, and I am wondering if I should file for Chapter 7 bankruptcy. Why did you jump to that conclusion? What makes you think you can't crawl out of this? Well, I've been working a lot two jobs constantly. Not really able to get anywhere. Recently, about a year ago,

Starting point is 00:01:47 I caught a case for a felony charge and I am still going on actively with that case trying to get probation. So it's been very difficult for me to find another job now that my background check is showing a felony charge. So what are you doing now for work? Yeah, so I'm working on Amazon. I'm making about $4,100 a month at a minimum. I can potentially make more depending on if they allow me to get overtime or work a six day. I'm working five days there as of right now. Okay. Um, last year I made, last year I made 60,000 off of it. Um,

Starting point is 00:02:32 off of Amazon loan. Um, but I'm just like drowning right now with, with payments. And, um, I did, um, I rounded up all my minimum payments for all my loans and everything. And my minimum is $5,300 a month. And that's just on minimum payments. That's not including food or rent or anything else. How have you made it so far? What's getting you through every month if you're going underwater?

Starting point is 00:03:09 So how did I make it so far? Well, I've been doing- Are you going further into debt every month? No, no. So I'm tapped out. I can't even get the debt consolidation loan. My credit is shot. What kind of debt is this?

Starting point is 00:03:22 What is this debt, man? Can you break down the 160? Yeah, so I have a vehicle that's 51,000 I left on it. 51,000? Yeah, it's a Tesla Model Y Performance. Oh, not a Tesla. What's it worth? Yeah. Not 51. Yeah. Not 51. It's going to work for $35,000. How much? $35,000.

Starting point is 00:03:45 $35,000. Okay. What else? I have nine credit cards that are total of $55,000 with the debt on that. Okay. And then I have the rest of my loans, which is 98,000, which is three personal loans and then my auto loan. Your other what? My auto loan.

Starting point is 00:04:14 Auto loan. You have another auto loan? No, no, no, it's the Tesla. Okay, so you got 51K on the car, nine credit cards that are 55K, and then the other, what is that, another 50 or 60 is in personal loans? No, so total with the car, it's 98.

Starting point is 00:04:34 So it would be another like 40 in personal. Okay, where did all this money go? What have you been spending on? So, we're talking 100k and just spending. Yeah, to make a long story short, I mentioned I had a three-year-old daughter. I got in a relationship with this woman. Basically, she was unfaithful to me. We broke up. Ever since then I've been trying to honestly repair our relationship for our child and also because you know it's the woman that I love and care about.

Starting point is 00:05:15 Well, long story short it's been years of nonstop taking on her debts, you know, paying for food and basically living like two households the whole time. And yeah, basically just... So she's been scamming you for this, I mean she's been just leeching off you all this time, huh? Yes, yes. And now, you know, recently I got, you know, we, you know, I moved, we basically broke up again and I'm left with all this and I just, she doesn't want to make it work

Starting point is 00:05:53 and I've been continuing trying to make it work for my child and then I just, this is where I'm at now. Well, hold on, hold on. Making it work for your child is different than digging a hundred and fifty, hundred sixty thousand dollar hole trying to impress a girl. Yeah. Those are two different things and you have lied yourself for the last two or three years saying I'm quote-unquote doing this for the baby but you've been running around like a like with your peacock feathers out trying to woo this woman and she's been just happy to take your money, happy to take all your

Starting point is 00:06:27 stuff, but it wasn't about that girl. And now again, I think you love your daughter, I think you're working as hard as you can, but man, you got to let the fantasy of this woman go, it's burying you. What's this felony charge about? So it was, she had a guy in my apartment for the second time. Um, all right, let's do this. Let's do this. Let's stop there. I don't want, I don't want you to say something that's going to get subpoenaed on the air. Let's just roll back to the money part. Is that cool? Yeah. Are you living alone right now?

Starting point is 00:06:55 So I, I was going back to my parents and her, um, I was in my car for a month. Um, last month I was in for a whole month, um, just because I couldn't go back to my parents and her. I was in my car for a month. Last month I was in for a whole month just because I couldn't go back to either one. So now I am back with my parents. They stopped drinking supposedly, so I'm there for now. And this is another reason why I was thinking about bankruptcy just because I have a case going on,

Starting point is 00:07:24 I'm an unstable household. You know, I can't rely on nobody right now. I'm a worker. I let, you know, two years ago I made, you know, 93,000 working doubles. I mean, I've been working nonstop two jobs for the last three years. But bro, if you, if you, if you make 98 three years in a row, you're out. No, no, not three years. But bro, if you make 98 three years in a row, you're out. No, no, not three years in a row. No, no, no, I'm telling you. Like, I want you to hear George and I say we believe in you. If you make 90 grand for three years in a row just straight hustling, you'll be out, you'll be free. Listen to me, you'll be free. If you file bankruptcy,

Starting point is 00:08:04 you're putting a chain around your neck and you're jumping into a lake. Yeah, the problem I have is I've been applying for jobs in my record with a felony charge. I got it. I got it. It's very, the deck is firmly stacked against you until you get that cleared. 100%. Yeah. But I have never one time. I've I mean, I've never the guy who mows my lawn, I don't know if he's got a felony charge. He just does a great job.

Starting point is 00:08:33 Right. I mean, there's work to be had. It's not traditional work and it's not fun work. And it is hard grinding, hot, cold work. But there's work. What do you think, George? Yeah, there's no shortcuts here. We've got to get your income up ASAP. I would not file bankruptcy. You're you can get out of this, but it's gonna take three years of hustle throwing 50 grand at the debt and that means getting that income up and

Starting point is 00:08:52 man, you're gonna have to get creative. You might have to get a roommate or two, keep living with the parents, do what you got to do, but do not throw that chain around you just yet. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys, I didn't even this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys, I didn't even think about it.

Starting point is 00:09:27 And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them. Me too. And they don't know what to do next.

Starting point is 00:09:43 Terrifying. You're going to have a crisis here. You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's gonna invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's gonna eat tomorrow. That's exactly right. These are the two options. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Dr. John Delaney, Open Phones at AAA 825-5225. Tammy's on the line from Tampa, Florida.

Starting point is 00:10:33 Tammy, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you. Sure. How can John and I help? Well, I'm just needing some assistance with stopping giving my ex-daughter-in-law money. Okay. I have an awesome tip for this before you even ask your question. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:10:53 Okay, you ready? Yep, go ahead. All right. Do you have a pen and paper you can write this down? Sure. You'll remember it. Okay. All right.

Starting point is 00:11:04 Stop giving your ex-daughter-in-law money That was incredible, huh? What it how's genius incredible? Tammy don't let don't fall for it. So why can't you stop giving her money? Well, I did I I've been giving her money for a long time trying to help her because it's a long time and how much since my husband died in September and probably about $4,000. Total, four grand since September. Yeah, I've paid her rent since January. It's $800 a month.

Starting point is 00:11:38 Where's your son in this? He is not in the picture at all. So he is paying support. In your life or hers? He is not in the picture at all. So he is paying support. In your life or hers? He's paying her child support $25 a week. Oh, okay. A week.

Starting point is 00:11:54 Where is he? He's in North Carolina and he's dropped out of her life or everyone's life. Is he legally supposed to be paying more than $25 a week? No, that's what the courts awarded him. So he's indigent, he's not working, so he's struggling with addiction pretty bad? Not addiction, he's a transgender. He's just not in a picture at all. Okay, he just dropped out of his life. So are you giving money because you feel guilty? A lot of it is, yeah.

Starting point is 00:12:25 I will, because she's a single mom, I don't want her to go under. And this is your grandchild still? It's not an ex-grandchild, it's still your grandchild. Yeah, she's raising my grandchild. I gave her a car, I gave her my car. And then I bought a car so that she would have a reliable vehicle

Starting point is 00:12:44 because she was going under with the used car dealership. Sure. Well, if you want to keep giving her money, then why do you want to stop giving her money? I don't have it anymore. There you go. I'm 59. I want to retire someday and I can't just keep giving her money. But the latest was Sunday night when she messaged me that she's going to be evicted if I don't help her pay her rent. Is she working full time?

Starting point is 00:13:10 She works two jobs, she gets food stamps, jobs support. She no longer has a car payment. I mean, I don't know where her money's going. Here's the deal though. Unless you wanna file with the child protective services in that local area and take custody of this kid, because the kid's not safe,

Starting point is 00:13:28 where her money goes isn't in any of your business. And I know that's hard to hear, but it's not. Yeah, I know. And you've been giving her money, thousands and thousands of dollars, and you've probably had a ton of conversations about your son who's transitioned. Like you've had tons of conversations with her,

Starting point is 00:13:42 y'all are close, and she's gonna keep calling you in the middle of the night because she knows you'll bail her out of whatever situation she finds herself in. Yeah. And so until you say upfront, hey I don't have enough money for me, and so from this point forward, here's the last $500 I got and this is it. And she's gonna call you again because she doesn't believe you, and you're gonna have to hold firm to that boundary. You're gonna have to again because she doesn't believe you. And you're gonna have to hold firm to that boundary. You're gonna have to be sad, you have to be upset, you're gonna have to be angry at your child,

Starting point is 00:14:09 you have to be angry, you have to be frustrated, all of it, but you don't have any money to give. Yeah, that's, thank you, yeah. And it seems like there's a lack of trust on your part because you don't know what she's doing with this money and you don't think it's going to the things you want it to go to. That's sort of correct.

Starting point is 00:14:29 I don't understand. She works like two towns over. It's an hour away. Why not get a job closer to home? Why not? I just don't know where her money's going. And it's always an excuse. I'm just tired of the excuses.

Starting point is 00:14:44 I just don't want my granddaughter out on the streets and now she's gonna be evicted in three days. Are you in a position to take temporary custody of your granddaughter for a while? I've told her yes, she can come stay with me. I mean I haven't done anything legally. I'm not sure what I need to do legally but I've told her I can put up my granddaughter. I just I can't have her in my house. Sure, of course. You know, I don't trust her.

Starting point is 00:15:09 What does she say to that? I'm waiting for a response. I just sent her a long message today saying no more financial help. So let's stop communicating in messages because that's how my teenage son communicates with his friends and we're adults and this is too big of a deal. Let's make phone calls, okay? Okay. Let's pick up the phone and call and say,

Starting point is 00:15:26 I'm gonna come pick up my granddaughter and she can stay here until you get on your feet again. If that's what you feel like you need to do, okay? I like that, I think I agree with that. And she may say, I hate you and I can't believe this or you may bail her out for three weeks and then she'll come over to the house and say, oh my gosh, you took my kid.

Starting point is 00:15:43 Who knows what's gonna happen in the back end of this deal. But at least for three weeks, that little girl's got a safe place to put her head. That's what I want. I just want her to be safe. And I'm not trying to take her child away. I just want her to get on her feet and stop wasting money.

Starting point is 00:15:57 Of course. But listen, you don't get any say into her budget. You don't get any say into where she lives and where she works. That stinks, but you just don't, right? Yeah, I know. And we want the, man, I can't even imagine being in the situation you're in.

Starting point is 00:16:11 But just because it hurts doesn't mean it's wrong. You don't have a pain-free path forward here. You have to choose the one that's gonna hurt and also lead you to where you wanna be, which is right now a safe place for your daughter and your bleeding cash that you don't have. And have you grieved your husband's loss? Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, I think that maybe it's just being taken advantage of since my husband's past. It's tough, you know, and he would probably, he's rolling over and it's great seeing me give our money. It's okay, hey, you went through a

Starting point is 00:16:53 period of having to survive and you're still breathing and you're good and now we're going to start making some harder and firmer and more Safe and rational choices, right? Yes. Yeah, forgive yourself man. I can't my life would end if my wife passed away it would stop and I would hope to give myself some grace on what I Did the next few months it would just be I can't even wrap my head around that So I'm gonna give you some give yourself some grace I've been trying to keep your your family afloat as it's kind of drifting apart from you. Thank you. I'm proud of you. Okay. Thank you. And now you got to put your oxygen mask on and make sure you're in a stable enough

Starting point is 00:17:35 place so that if you do end up having to take custody over this little granddaughter or whatever you choose to do or your child comes home, what have you got to do? You're gonna be at a more stable place to do that. I agree. Okay, I'm proud of you. And George, the one thing I always tell parents in this situation is don't pull a gotcha. Meaning if you've been giving money for month after month after month after month

Starting point is 00:18:01 and it's up to thousands of dollars, in my opinion that warrants a conversation, not just an overnight cutoff, right? Because somebody has begun to lean on that money and you have shown up time and time and time again, it's worth a conversation and that can be an uncomfortable one. Because she's gonna say, hey, this is it,

Starting point is 00:18:20 I don't have any more money. Oh, she's gonna let us, like it's all her fault, right? I can't control how your budget, how you spend any of that stuff. I'm just telling you I don't have any more money. Oh, she's just gonna let us, like it's all her fault, right? I can't control how your budget, how you spend any of that stuff. I'm just telling you, I don't have any more money, right? It's worth that conversation, and then you gotta hold those boundaries firm because those waters are coming,

Starting point is 00:18:31 and we're gonna see if they're gonna hold. It's so hard, and I know a lot of people, not this particular situation, but a lot of people are going through some version of this where they're trying to be a good, nice person, it's turned into this enabling, they have to have the hard boundary conversation, and it's a close person in their life.

Starting point is 00:18:47 How do you even begin that? Well, I'll take it one step further. It's not only, like, we talk on the show, we often oversimplify it, right? Like, you just cut that person off. What if I cut that person off and they have my granddaughter, who's four, right? Like, it complicates things.

Starting point is 00:19:02 And so, like we talked about in that call, what's the end goal? The end goal here is I can't give you any more money. And the end goal is I need my granddaughter safe. Okay, well then maybe she's gonna have to come live with you for a couple of weeks because that's the only option, right? Is anybody want that?

Starting point is 00:19:16 No, but that's the next right thing. So I think it's sometimes it's as simple as telling your 25 year old kid, like you gotta move out of the basement. Often it's sitting down and saying, okay okay what's the best thing for the children involved in this deal and what's the reality. My financial reality, I don't have more money I can't give you anything else. I'm gonna have to be calling you for money and you got to make those hard decisions and think through all

Starting point is 00:19:36 the ramifications of that. But none of it is easy and I think we all want an easy path. None of it's easy. It's all hard and you got to go do it anyway. So good. Well, Tammy, thanks for the call. We're wishing the best for you. Hope this ends up with a good situation for you and your granddaughter. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. I hate to admit this, but I don't always eat right. I know, I need to eat more fruits and veggies, but sometimes I just have to pound some chips because they taste so good. That's why I love my field of greens. It helps me eat healthy when I don't have much time.

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Starting point is 00:20:50 or your money back. So, go to www.fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey for 20% off your first order. That's www.fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey to save 20% on your first order. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Delaney joined by George Campbell, 88825. 5-2-2-5. That's 8-8-8. 8-2-5. 52-25. Selling a house the Ramsey way makes home ownership something to celebrate, not something that ruins every part of your life. The Ramsey Trusted program is the only way to find an agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey. And here's the deal, to get you the best offer on your house or find the right house for you, nothing is worse than having a real estate agent

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Starting point is 00:22:04 and you wanna have peace inside that home. We send you the top agents in your area, folks that we trust, that we use in our homes and our lives. You can review their stats. You can interview them. You can decide which one you want to work with. Ramsey trusted agents have years of experience and will help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, marketing, and making or choosing the right offer. Find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free. It doesn't cost you anything. Just go to ramsysolutions.com. All right, let's go out to Charlotte, North Carolina and talk to MA double T.

Starting point is 00:22:39 What's up, Matt? How we doing? Good. How are you? We're partying brother. How can we help man? So I sort of have like one question. So I'm not like an avid watcher of the Ramsey show, but I see a lot of clips online where you guys talk about mutual funds and investing in mutual funds. I was wondering why do you recommend mutual funds over index funds? Great question, man.

Starting point is 00:23:05 How old are you? 21. Lovely. And are you investing right now? Yeah, I've been investing since I was 15. Oh my goodness. Dude, that's amazing. Who taught you that?

Starting point is 00:23:19 My dad taught me a little bit and I read about it. Nice. What have you been investing in for the past six years? So I was doing like, mostly index funds, but I like to play around, do some stock picks, but you know, obviously not a lot of, not a big portion of my portfolio goes towards that.

Starting point is 00:23:42 Okay. Are you working full time? Yeah, I'm in marketing. Nice. That's amazing. Okay. And how much are you investing as a percentage of your gross household income? Probably like 25, 30 percent. Oh my goodness. Okay. So you're going to be a multimillionaire regardless of this conversation that happens next. Can we agree on that? Yeah. Where do you live, Matt? Right outside of Charlotte. No, no, no, like do you have your own place, your own house, your own apartment, you're living with mom, where you living? No, I still live with my mom at home. Okay. All right. Cool. How much do you make a year? Yeah. All right, cool. How much do you make a year?

Starting point is 00:24:22 Yeah. 80 to 90. Oh my goodness, dude, you're crushing it. So you're, we're talking, you're investing like 18,000 a year. Yeah. And you've got a 401k through your employer? No, I use a Roth IRA.

Starting point is 00:24:40 Okay, so what happens after you max that out? I just put in a regular brokerage. Okay, great. So let's talk about index funds versus mutual funds. And for the listener's sake, if they're like, what are these goober nerds talking about? Index funds are basically passively managed mutual funds. So still a giant group of stocks,

Starting point is 00:24:58 but it's tracking an index, basically a set list of companies. Whereas the mutual funds that are actively managed has an investment manager that is selecting the funds that make the list. Can you get, let's go even simpler for guys like me. When you say indexed, they're indexed and they're passively managed.

Starting point is 00:25:15 So indexed, there's no one running the show. It's just a set list of here's the- And so they pick, I'm making these up, they pick. The S&P 500. There's 500 companies, the largest US companies. And if they go up, then the index fund goes up, and if they just all go down, then the index fund kinda goes down.

Starting point is 00:25:29 And over time, we hope these companies just keep getting bigger and growing. And then can companies fall off the S&P 500 and new ones pop in? Yes. So the whole thing should be just going up over time. Exactly. And so index funds means nobody's driving,

Starting point is 00:25:42 it's just following whatever those- It's the autonomous vehicle of the investing world. You like that? You just ruined it for people. John, I know. There we go. That was excellent. Okay, okay.

Starting point is 00:25:52 Thank you for that. Is that a good summary, Matt? Because you know about this stuff just as much as we do. Yeah. Okay. I mean, one thing that's sort of important to note is that mutual funds sort of have built-in fees, right? You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:26:03 Correct. Like there's built-in fees. There's an investment manager, there's people to pay because this is their job to run these. Exactly, so they do have fees. The perks of the index funds, as you know, diversification, which mutual funds have, low expense ratios, which index funds have,

Starting point is 00:26:20 and predictability. And every investment rose has its thorn. For starters, your index funds won't beat the market because it represents the market. have and predictability. And every investing rose has a storm. For starters, your index funds won't beat the market because it represents the market. Does that make sense? So you'll settle for the average of the market. You can never beat it.

Starting point is 00:26:33 The goal of the mutual fund is that that investment manager is picking, is hand selecting funds based on tons and tons of research that they're doing every day, day in and day out in order to attempt to beat it. So let's say the market does 10%. Well, the goal of the mutual fund is to do 12% or 14%. Now, as we know, they won't hit that goal every year.

Starting point is 00:26:53 We don't have a crystal ball. We can agree on that. Do you have, do you look for specifics in a mutual fund to try to hit those funds? Because I know 80% of mutual funds don't beat the market. No, that's actually factually incorrect. Morningstar did this article, and they said nearly 57% of mutual funds,

Starting point is 00:27:13 these active US equity funds, they beat the average index fund peer over the 12 months through June, 2023. So that means six out of 10 mutual funds beat the index. Wait, over how long? Over a 12 month period. They looked at here's what mutual funds did, here's what the peer index fund did,

Starting point is 00:27:33 six out of 10 beat the index fund. Right, but why are you looking at a 12 month period versus like, you know, decades? You can look at decades and it's gonna change depending on the decade you look at. And the truth is there's gonna be mutual funds that don't beat the index. And there's gonna be years the index beats the mutual funds.

Starting point is 00:27:49 And so the goal here is to slightly beat the copycat of the stock market, which is the index fund. And so the index funds also do have a fee. You'll see it listed as a 12B1 fee. And so that kind of makes up for the fact that the mutual fund fees there. So it's not exactly free. And here's the thing, we're not anti-index funds.

Starting point is 00:28:09 There's a time and place. In fact, Dave Ramsey invests in index funds outside of retirement. You have that taxable brokerage account, right? Yeah. Dave would say index funds are the smart play there because of the low turnover. They're not moving things around as much,

Starting point is 00:28:23 which makes the fees less. But in retirement, you're not having to pay those fees, because you're not worried about turnover, because this is a long-term play, and therefore he invests in mutual funds for his retirement accounts, index funds outside of retirement. So there's a time and place for both.

Starting point is 00:28:38 What do you look for in a mutual fund though? Well, there's a lot of pieces of it, including rate of return, the expense ratio, what the fund is made up of, who the fund manager is, have they switched the investment team recently. If it's been doing great for 30 years and all of a sudden they switched the crew, well, that's something you wanna look out for

Starting point is 00:28:58 because things might change. And we actually covered this in depth, Matt, in our Investing Essentials live stream. And it's not currently available, but just for you, I'm going to send you a link to watch that for free. How's that sound? Good, but isn't that sort of inevitable? I mean, if a mutual fund has a 30 year history

Starting point is 00:29:18 with one manager and I'm 21 and I want to invest for another 30 years, isn't there pretty much a guarantee that the fund manager's gonna change, the fund management team? Sure, over time, things may change, but what we're looking for is that longer-term track record. And so we're not gonna choose a fund that's been around for a year.

Starting point is 00:29:38 We prefer the one that has a track record of 10 or 15 that's had the same team with the same record of success. But dude, that's like saying, I don't wanna root for the Yankees or the Astros because they're gonna have different players in a few years. The goal is you hope that they have guiding principles and they have the same desire to win

Starting point is 00:29:57 and they have the same integrity over time. Some teams are better at integrity than others with the teams I just labeled. I know Kelly's looking at me not to ask jokes. Kelly's upset. But you see what I'm saying? Like, yeah, the fund manager's going to roll over, but it will change over time. Matt, here's the deal.

Starting point is 00:30:11 We can argue all day and I can tell you like this, but you can be a multimillionaire just from your index funds. You don't have to ever touch a mutual fund if you don't want or are going to still be friends. You're doing great. The key is your savings rate. That's the key. That's what's holding people back from having money. It's not the discussion of index versus

Starting point is 00:30:27 mutual. That's for another time. But for everyone else listening, just freaking invest. Be like Matt. At 21 years old, invest 18 grand a year. You're gonna have money in retirement, regardless of where you put it. And for what it's worth, George and I both put our money in mutual funds. Call me a dummy. And me too. They do, George. They call us dummies. We'll be right back. All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:04 I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing.

Starting point is 00:31:31 What's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric. Yes. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. You know that's why we're partnering with them because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've

Starting point is 00:32:01 done a really really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering the Ramsey Tribe is incredible. Yeah absolutely and you're right their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. Yeah. And I'm not kidding it took it took less than five minutes. It was so user-friendly like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable and then the next day my phone rings and it says fair wins on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer.

Starting point is 00:32:31 And so again, they just really care about your experience and I so, so appreciate that. So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy. Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

Starting point is 00:32:54 Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe. You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fair Winds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more.

Starting point is 00:33:15 That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Delaney this hour. Open phones at 888-825-5225. While you're listening or watching this show, do us a quick favor. Hit the subscribe button, hit the subscribe button, hit the follow button, leave a review, text a link to a friend, let them know about the show or your favorite clip, a highlight, anything that can get the word out because you guys truly are the best marketing tool we have to keep spreading hope in a world filled with

Starting point is 00:34:00 a lot of noise and distractions and hopelessness. And so we try to displace all of that with shows like this and we appreciate all of your help getting the word out. Lester is up next in Dallas, Texas. How can we help you Lester? Hi there. I was calling to see about some advice on how to talk with my wife about saving more than spending. My wife's a spender, I'm a saver. We're aligned on our goals, but she just spends a lot of things here and there. And so just some advice on that. Was there like a spit shake on, hey, here's how much we're going to spend. Here's what the budget says, stick to it. Yeah, we've budgeted out a lot of different things. We even have a split to where

Starting point is 00:34:40 we have our own fun money, where it's like a hundred bucks a month that we can spend it on whatever we'd like but there's a lot of gifts and celebrations and things like that that my wife wants to make sure we're showing love to our friends and family and then just things add up very quickly and then things are gone. Is this a communication challenge or is your wife being spiteful? Because there's two different ways to approach this. I don't think it's either. My wife and I communicate very, very well and frequently about it, but I don't think she's being very spiteful at all.

Starting point is 00:35:19 She agrees that we need to be saving and we want the things we want where a house and being able to retire as both of our families are in that basket at all and don't have a retirement even in their 50s and 60s. And we don't want to do that but she just kind of forgets about the things and it doesn't think about the $20 here or $20 there or a hundred bucks here and it just kind of adds up. And so if there's anything that we can do to try, try something different, as we've tried,

Starting point is 00:35:51 like different cards that only have a certain amount of money on it each month to help limit that. But obviously I don't want her stranded. So she has access to a card that has access to the main fund for gas and all that kind of stuff but are you guys only using debit cards or are there some credit cards still being used no no no we only have debit cards um i i hate credit i always have um but yeah we only use debit cards most i don't mean to overly gender this but this is just the way it plays out in

Starting point is 00:36:23 the real world most of the time when i talk to men in your situation, they try to solve this with a plan, a strategy, a new card, a new spreadsheet, a new commitment ceremony. And the only way I've ever seen somebody be successful is if they are honest with their spouse about the story behind the story. The story behind the strategy.

Starting point is 00:36:53 And that would be you sitting down and saying, I need to be open with you. Can I tell you something that's scaring me to death? And her say, oh, sure sure honey, what's going on? And you say, I'm scared to death about not having any money. And I'm feeling like I'm not communicating this well because every month there's another $250 in gifts and stuff like that in $20 increments. And I don't feel like I'm being fully honest

Starting point is 00:37:23 here at the table. And you notice I did two things here. Number one, I was honest. I told you told her how you felt. You didn't throw a strategy at her. And number two, you use the word I, not you keep overspending and you keep doing that because when she does that, man,

Starting point is 00:37:37 she's gonna go back to her childhood. She's gonna go to war. My guess is she's gonna have to decide, I would rather feel the short-term discomfort of not having a gift for every single thing that pops up because I never could buy gifts for anybody or I never got any gifts for anybody and now I can so I feel like I have to. She's got to give up that short-term pleasure for the long-term safety of me and my husband don't have to worry about not having anything to eat.

Starting point is 00:38:04 Mm- eat. And that's hard and I haven't seen a way to get there without emotion, without a story, without you saying this is how I feel. Yeah. And if she looks at you and says I don't care how you feel I'm buying gifts for this thing well now y'all got a deeper issue y'all got to-hmm. Yeah. Can you do that? Yeah, most definitely. The other side of this, Lester, when it comes to the tactical,

Starting point is 00:38:32 is that you should be sitting down with her before the month begins going, hey, what's happening this month? A birthday should not be a surprise. We know when the birthdays are happening. Christmas happens on December 25th every year. I check my calendar, still happening. And so you kind of know what's coming up

Starting point is 00:38:46 and you adjust the budget accordingly. So if we need to add a gift line item in the budget, let's do that. If we need to add a miscellaneous sort of little catch-all of 50 bucks or a hundred bucks, let's do that so it doesn't derail our plans. Well, that's often really important because that's when the $20 plus $20 plus $50

Starting point is 00:39:03 turns into 310 bucks and she goes, "' oh gosh, I don't wanna do that. Yeah. And the other thing is we check the budget before we make the purchase. So if we go to the gift and we go, oh gosh, I wish we're gonna have to do a handmade gift. Let's make a little basket. Let's get some roses from the garden.

Starting point is 00:39:17 Let's get creative. George made me a basket once. John still has it, he loves it. It was a great gift. So Lester, that's where we come up with a solution together and have the conversation. But gift. So Lester, that's where we come up with a solution together and have the conversation, but there is a part of this that's on her as far as accountability going,

Starting point is 00:39:30 you need to check the budget before you make the purchase. That's how I do it, that's how you do it. We can't just hope that we lined up with the budget perfectly. We use that as our guiding kind of north star. And I think when you do that, you start to add in these line items, it starts to be less and less of a surprise.

Starting point is 00:39:44 You get to kind of align it a little more. And on top of that, what is your next goal? What is the thing you guys both agreed to is the next thing that we're saving up for? Well, it's not necessarily saving up for, it's like being able to pay off our debts. So you're in baby step two. Correct, yes.

Starting point is 00:40:01 So even more in baby step two, there's even more intentional sacrifice and intensity here where it's going, we can't afford to buy people gifts. We got to put our own mask on first, we're broke. And think about how many gifts we can buy people once we're debt free with an emergency fund, we're preparing for our future, then we can look up for opportunities to give

Starting point is 00:40:19 and be generous. And so I think that's part of it is you need to have a plan together going, we're going to pay off $700 a month of debt and here's how we're going to do it versus we really need to save more, really got to get rid of this debt. We need to get more specific so we can actually hit the target. Lester, have you tried any of these things we're throwing at you? Does it all sound crazy? No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. And these are conversations

Starting point is 00:40:45 we've had, but I agree. I haven't been very specific with it. My wife and I are blessed to be in the positions that we're in. I mean, I'm making more money than I ever thought I would before. And it, it's not been specific of, Hey, we're going to spend X amount of dollars on our debt every single month because we have to. It's just been, we want to spend more on our debts. And realistically, we don't have a lot of debt, even student loans and medical debt and things like that included. We don't have a lot. And so within a year, we could easily have 80% of it paid off. Dude, put that plan in front of her. Put that plan in front of her and y'all talk through have 80% of it paid off. If we're gonna be more talkative. Put that plan in front of her, and put that plan in front of her, and y'all talk through

Starting point is 00:41:29 it, and then more importantly than that plan, paint a picture for her of how you're gonna be able to breathe in your own home, how you and her are gonna have something needed of y'all have ever had which is economic security. Let her just absorb that and feel her husband radiating this thing that you've probably never radiated before which is just peace. Man it makes it there's not a lot of gifts I'm gonna buy in exchange for my wife's peace for my peace you see what I'm saying? Yeah. And then by the way once you get that peace once y'all like George said you you don't owe anybody money, you can buy gifts for everybody.

Starting point is 00:42:09 You could be kind of over the top and reckless with who you buy gifts for because you don't owe anybody money. So this little plan, this one year thing we're after, this is just part of reverse engineering the picture you painted her. So instead of, we got to get on a budget, you got to spend, it becomes, hey, remember, that's what we're aiming for? This is a little blip on that timeline of intentionality and sacrifice. Are you with me?

Starting point is 00:42:32 Yeah. And I hope that helps. We're gonna gift you every dollar premium, Lester. What are you using right now for a budget when you guys sit down together? Pen and paper. And then I use an Excel sheet, and that's kind of it. Yeah, you do, I knew you were an Excel guy. If you and then I use an Excel sheet and that's kind of it. Yeah, you do. I knew you were an Excel guy.

Starting point is 00:42:47 If you show a spender an Excel sheet, they implode inside. They die inside. That's scientific. They just die. So we're going to gift you every dollar premium. It's much easier to look at, easier to use. You both log in, you both have accountability. So while she's out, she can actually check the budget versus Lester's spreadsheet at home. So hope that helps, Lester. We're wishing you the best as you attack this debt. That puts this hour of The Ramsay

Starting point is 00:43:07 Show in the books. Thank you to Dr. John Delaney, all the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat, and you America. We'll be back before you know it. It's Holy Week in Jerusalem and the city is restless. The people of Israel welcome Jesus as king, his followers ready for revolution. But instead of taking the throne, Jesus turns the tables. Experience Holy Week like never before. Coming soon to theaters, The Chosen Last Supper. Get your tickets now! The Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

Starting point is 00:44:48 I'm Ramsey Personality, George Campbell, joined by my best friend and bestselling author, Dr. John Deloney. He's in the house, he's ready to help, we both are. So give us a call and let's talk about your life and your money and help you take the right next step, regardless of what's going on in your life. Joseph kicks us off this hour in Los Angeles. Joseph, welcome to the show. Thank you, how are you guys?

Starting point is 00:45:11 We're doing well, how are you? I'm doing really good. My question is, so just to give you a little backstory, my wife and I are debt-free. We're saving up for our fully funded emergency fund right now, and then we plan on to start investing from there to fund our retirement. But yeah, so we're super blessed. I'm grateful to be debt free. But so my question is, though, how can we, can we be sure that

Starting point is 00:45:41 the dollar is going to maintain its value over the next 30 years since we are going to be investing and following what you guys recommend in like mutual funds, 401k? Like, should we be worried about the economy or what do you guys just take on that? Where's that question coming from? It's a question I hear all over the, I mean, I hear that question everywhere. And I've actually lost many nights sleep over that question. Where are you getting it from? So, you know, I have some friends

Starting point is 00:46:13 and they're talking about Bitcoin and all these cryptocurrencies, and I'm not going that route, but I don't have a, you know, when they say, well, what about the dollar? I don't really have a good answer or rebuttal as to why Dollar is gonna you know maintain its value over something like cryptocurrency So I just wanted to get so I guess it's coming from you know

Starting point is 00:46:36 What is trending just kind of in the area? I'm gonna give you my very Primitive answer and George who's way smarter on this stuff will give you my very primitive answer and George, who's way smarter on this stuff, will give you a more sophisticated answer. Can I guarantee anything over the next 30 years? No, you can't. But here's what I can guarantee you. If the US dollar, if we woke up one day and the US dollar had collapsed as a global currency, as a localized currency, Bitcoin would not save you. Having an alternative, oh okay, we've got this special email account with these special zeros and ones and ones and zeros in it that say it's worth stuff because every

Starting point is 00:47:26 every the world's debt is in US dollars bitcoins are bought and traded in US dollar everything revolves around that and so when people are calling for the collapse of the dollar I can't guarantee it's not gonna happen what I will guarantee you is you'll be fending off your neighbor because they're gonna be trying to kill you for your water like it it's, it's, or you're going to be figuring out how to walk 30 miles to work to an office that doesn't exist anymore because there's no gas to put in a car. Like it will, it will so change the way we do life for a while

Starting point is 00:47:58 that as one of my buddies told me, he's a, he's a bank executive. And he said, Hey, cause I was just peppering him with these questions, and it was actually the response that freed me. He looked at me and said, hey man, I don't have a meteorite plan. I don't have a plan for if the world gets hit by a meteorite. I'm not building that world up, right? I will deal with that if it happens.

Starting point is 00:48:19 But until then, I'm gonna do the next best smart right thing that I got, which is buy real estate and invest wisely. Right. And so I think most people don't have a, what kind of scorched earth it would be if Wall Street goes away, right? Definitely, no, that's super good. All right, that was my dragons and swords answer.

Starting point is 00:48:47 What do you think, George? I fell asleep about three seconds into that, John. I know you did. I was bored to tears. No, I'm just kidding. That was a really good answer. And I have similar things to say, but I'll add to that and tell you this.

Starting point is 00:48:57 I grew up in a very evangelical household. My mom can't wait for Jesus to come back, right? She sang the songs, she watched Left Behind, we were all in. And so my thing is always like, Jesus could come back tomorrow and? Like she sang the songs, she watched Left Behind, like we were all in. And so my thing is always like, Jesus could come back tomorrow and that could waste all of the effort I made trying to save up this retirement account.

Starting point is 00:49:11 But also what if it's not tomorrow and I still have to feed my family? And I kind of feel the same way about the crypto. Like, yes, the dollar could get devalued. I don't think it's gonna collapse. If that happened, we're not worried about crypto, like John said, we're worried about feeding, you know, trading for gas and ammo at that point. And so to your point,

Starting point is 00:49:28 I'm going to invest 15% into mutual funds in the stock market, because for decades and decades and decades, I know there's a large chance of a 10% return. With crypto, I'm losing sleep because 24 seven, that number is moving and the goalpost is moving. And now it's down 50%, but now it's down 50%, but now it's up a thousand percent. And what if I had just gotten in and instead I just want to live with peace. I want to sleep well at night.

Starting point is 00:49:52 I got to go to work in the morning. And so for that reason, it's fine to keep those friends around. They're probably good guys, well-meaning who want to take care of their families too, but it's not a peaceful way to live. And so for that reason, it's fine to put fun money in Bitcoin, but I'm also not gonna do it

Starting point is 00:50:07 under the guise of my paranoia apocalyptic plan, that I'm gonna be the one to survive it if I put money in crypto. Hey, Joseph, I'm gonna ask a question on your behalf to George. Is that right? Okay, he's smarter on this stuff than I am. George, I remember doing an event with Jaco once,

Starting point is 00:50:21 and at the end of the event, he said to the audience, we were both on stage there. And he said, we talk a lot about military stuff. We talk a lot about might and our Navy SEALs ability. But he said, the thing that the US has is the economics, the economy. And as I dug into that, cause I started asking people like, is that true?

Starting point is 00:50:45 I mean, it sounds good from a stage, but is that right? And what one finance wizard told me, and again, I'm asking you, because who knows, but said, when a country says, we're gonna devalue the dollar, and they have bought US treasuries,

Starting point is 00:51:00 they have a vested interest in the US economy, that they actually are gonna lower the amount that we owe them. And so the advantage we have is if a country is like, we're gonna try to crash the dollar, then the investments that they have made go away. It hurts them financially. It hurts them significantly.

Starting point is 00:51:22 And so my understanding is the world's debt essentially traffics in US dollars. And so if a group of countries get together and like, let's crash the dollar, you can do that. And it may be, maybe to your advantage over a hundred years, but it's gonna be ugly, right? Because you're crashing the amount you're actually owed back.

Starting point is 00:51:38 Yeah. And as much debt as we have, we have a lot of friends out there, John. And so they go, hey, that's my friend. You don't mess with them cause they're protecting us. And so it's a very, it's, you get into geopolitics and economics and Joseph, I'm not smart enough to answer that question on that end.

Starting point is 00:51:52 But I just tell you what I do, what John does, and that's investing in our 401ks and IRAs, paying off our houses and sleeping well at night, not looking at our investments 24 seven. That was Joseph and George, that was what ultimately when I was where Joseph was I was spinning out man I wasn't sleeping for weeks. I was asking everybody all the time Ultimately, I came to what can I control here and if it all goes away If I don't owe anybody anything then there's not gonna be somebody knocking on my door and say that's mine right whether it's a car

Starting point is 00:52:22 Whether it's a house whether it's land it is. If I don't owe anybody anything, then there's not gonna be somebody, somebody might try to come take it, but they're not gonna be saying, hey, that's actually mine. And that to me feels like the smartest hedge is, I don't owe anybody anything. Let's start there. Joseph, thank you for a great conversation, man.

Starting point is 00:52:39 Hope it helped. Thank you, have a good day. You too, man. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back, triple eight-825-5225. Music What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession? Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000

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Starting point is 00:54:08 data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Listen, I know a lot of you would rather watch paint dry in slow motion than file your taxes. But thankfully, you don't have to dread filing when you've got Ramsey Smart Tax. It comes packed with everything you need to file online before the big deadline.

Starting point is 00:54:42 That means all major federal forms and deductions are covered with no hidden fees. Plus, with Ramsey SmartTax, you can save up to 70% compared to other tax software out there. It's a no-brainer. Just go to ramsysolutions.com slash smart tax and see how simple tax filing can be. That's ramsysolutions.com slash smart tax. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Dr. John Bologna. We're taking your calls at 888-825-52225. Danielle joins us up next in Milwaukee. Danielle, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can John and I help?

Starting point is 00:55:33 Well, I'm calling about a question regarding paying for my father's film bill. Basically, Uh, basically my, uh, my dad, uh, lives below the poverty line, um, due to his own life choices. I've helped him financially throughout the years. Uh, and currently I am just paying his phone bill and I, I want to help him. And this has been a way that I've been able to do so but he has been making some questionable choices and I don't want to parent him and I just I'm not sure if this is the right thing for me to be doing. Yeah I'm happy to give more color to that. It's, you know, family. It's kind of complicated. Yeah, it's always, it always feels so complicated when you're in it. And in George and Mycie, it's usually way less complicated. Can I ask you a hard question?

Starting point is 00:56:36 Yes. Are you paying his phone bill for him or for you? For him. I know, but are you paying the bill for him or for you? Well I guess I want him to be okay so I guess for me in that regard. Has he listened to any of the wisdom or advice you've given him over the years? Um, no not really. If behavior is a language, what has he been telling you for a long, long time? Well, I guess that he doesn't value my input. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:57:23 He'll take your money. he'll take your phone bill. Cool. But when it comes to, I wanna live a different life, a healthier life, a safer life, a more loving life. Yeah, I don't really care about that. I'm especially not gonna take that crap from you. And then with the health he does of, who do you think you are?

Starting point is 00:57:42 I'm your dad. How long have you been chasing them? Your whole life? No, I would say when my parents, my parents were married for 35 years and once they divorced I kind of not right away, but you know as he just continued to make bad choices. I sort of Unbeknownst to me took the role of my mom. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. Yeah, I know it's a weird position to be in and

Starting point is 00:58:14 While you chose to be there He had a part in putting you there and you have a choice also to get out of this and to say hey dad listen I can't cover your phone bill anymore What would happen if that were the case? What would the conversation be like? At this point, it's going to be me probably writing him a letter. We, I've tried to, this is the second time I wanted to go out and visit him. He lives out of state and I don't know if he just doesn't want me to visit him or what, but he

Starting point is 00:58:48 always has a way of just, you know, bringing, we don't always agree on, you know, kind of everything, right? And I'm fine to just weave those things out of the conversation, but he has a way of bringing them up and just... Would you call this relationship transactional at this point? No, it's not. I mean, he was a really good dad to me growing up and he's not a bad person. He just makes really bad choices and doesn't seem to learn from them.

Starting point is 00:59:20 So that's why it's, you know, he's not a bad guy and... Well, it's not about his character. What I'm saying the relationship right now is, I pay the bill, he doesn't really want to see me, doesn't want much to do with me, but please keep paying my phone bill and thank you. It's more nuanced than that, but I mean, yeah, I realize I'm calling you guys asking you for... I mean, is it more nuanced than that? you guys asking you for your advice. I mean is it more nuanced than that? Yeah I really think it is. I mean he you know expressed that he was excited to see me but then he's telling me you know he's

Starting point is 00:59:54 I don't want to get into I don't want to take too much of your time but you know he's he went through he's not even technically divorced um um, the third time, but he is separated, I guess, legally. Um, and he's started these like some kind of dating site. I don't know what he's doing and there's been, you know, people you've been talking to. And, you know, I thought all of that was behind them now, but he just shared with me that he's been talking to like 30 year old women on some weird encrypted app. I just don't understand and now I feel like he's putting my own safety like with my phone account like linked to his in jeopardy and I'm just like yeah.

Starting point is 01:00:37 Your gut instinct is right. And there's more to it than this too. Yeah. I think if to circle back to the first question I asked you is are you paying this phone bill so that you can sleep at night knowing I tried to preserve my relationship with my dad as I watched him slowly the man that I love the good dad that I had as I watched him slowly, the man that I love, the good dad that I had, as I watched him slowly implode his life. Getting involved with all these people, getting married a bunch of times, now he's just slowly just unwinding. Often we try to hang on because something inside of us says that if there's just,

Starting point is 01:01:22 we say the right thing or we can just give the right amount of data or just just do the right nice kind thing that suddenly they'll be like oh amazing hey by the way can you help me with my love life and my money and right and unfortunately this call is not gonna come so if you want to make if you want to pay his phone bill and just pay his phone bill and make that a part of your life and and not hope for that will have an RL a relational ROI on it great knock your lights out George and I just say make sure you're not putting on a credit card right if you're just tired of being involved with all this and now you're wondering what he's even doing on it on an encrypted app that's that's linked to

Starting point is 01:02:02 you and your bank account dude that's just I'm gonna write him a letter and say, hey, I'm gonna step away from this. Yeah. And then you're gonna have to spend some time in this scary black hole called grief. It's not supposed to be like this. Your parents are married for 34 years. Yeah. Here's the spark notes.

Starting point is 01:02:27 If a cell phone bill is propping up the relationship and this is one Jenga piece that knocks the whole thing down, there was never a relationship there. And that's the hardest, scariest part to face. Is that whatever was, I know he's a good guy, he was a great dad, but it's changed. The relationship's changed. And I think that's the hardest part to grieve is the guy he was and the guy he is now. And I know you know this, but I feel I feel compelled to say it. You didn't do anything wrong, Daniel.

Starting point is 01:02:55 You've been a good daughter. There's not a thing we tried. I know, but there's not a thing you could have done differently in a conversation you didn't have. He's your dad. He's a grown man. He's way older than you. He's made adult choices and There's like we see we told the previous call. There's just nothing harder than watching someone you love Flush their life away Especially when you're standing there on the bank of the river saying I can help I can help and they're like now to stay here It's heartbreaking what what is the his portion of the cell phone bill? I'm just curious. What's the financial amount?

Starting point is 01:03:34 Maybe like 70 bucks or something like that. So if it was on him to cover 70 bucks from now on do you think he could do it? No, I think he'd have to go back to like a flip phone. That's the best thing he could do. Honestly ever since he got this iPhone and he's had more time on his hands I just don't even understand what's going on over there but yeah. It might keep him out of jail I think it's a good idea. Seriously yeah something something's weird. Yeah. Hmm. I'm so sorry, Daniel. That is not a fun thing to deal with.

Starting point is 01:04:08 The theme so far of the show, John, has been you cannot change people. No. No matter what you want to give them or cover for them, it's not going to make the relationship better and it's not going to solve their problems. You can create good boundaries. You can be graceful and merciful and forgiving, and then you can do the next right thing for you and for your relationship, and sometimes that's walking away.

Starting point is 01:04:30 Sometimes that's just saying, I'm taking my hands off the wheel, you're driving, cool, I'll be here when you're ready. More of your calls coming up, triple 8, 825-5225, this is the by BetterHelp. Alright, you've heard me say this a thousand times and I'm gonna keep saying it. You're worth being well. And I believe therapy can help. Right now, BetterHelp is offering 90% off your first week of therapy, now through March 31st.

Starting point is 01:05:16 So if you've been on the fence, this is your chance to try therapy for a fraction of the cost. Because let's be honest, we all spend money on things we hope will make us feel better, like new clothes, organic groceries, gym memberships, but when it comes to actually digging in and getting real with our mental and emotional wellbeing,

Starting point is 01:05:34 we hesitate, we pause. And I know actually going to therapy can seem like a huge first step, but please hear me. Your mental and emotional health are just as important as your physical health. BetterHelp makes therapy more accessible than you think because it's online so you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Your

Starting point is 01:06:00 well-being is worth it and this offer makes it easier than ever to start. 90% off your first week of therapy now through March 31, 2025. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney to get started. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney. I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships. That's why I'm pumped to bring the money and relationships tour to a city near you. Join me and Dr. John Deloney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and

Starting point is 01:06:33 possibly change how you live forever. Starting April 21st will be in Louisville then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City. Grab your tickets at ramsysolutions.com slash tour before they're gone. Today's Dr. John Deloney, open phones at 888-825-5225. Our question of the day is brought to you by Yreify. If you're in default with private student loans, contact Yreify. Obviously, we don't encourage letting your loans

Starting point is 01:07:14 get into default. We teach responsibility. But these amounts have some of you really struggling out there and this is a path forward. Wi-Fi was created for people in your situation. So go to yre.com.com. That's y-r-e-f-y.com.com. May not be available in all states. Alright, today's question comes from Scott in Michigan. Scott writes, I have been in the

Starting point is 01:07:38 auto industry for almost six years. I started as a mechanic at a large dealership, moved up to service advisor and recently was promoted to sales consultant. I bring in about $150,000 a year. After reading George Campbell's Breaking Free from Broke and the chapter about car loans, I felt guilty for being a part of this industry. Way to go, George. Sorry.

Starting point is 01:07:59 You guilt peddler. I've always thought of myself as an honest salesperson, and I don't just sell people a car I try to educate my customers into making the right decision, but yet I feel very convicted after reading this chapter Thanks again, George I went to college for business management But dropped out so that I wouldn't accumulate any more debt and I've been gazelle intense It's so that me and my wife and kids my wife and kids think I've gone crazy

Starting point is 01:08:23 I fear that if I pursue another career, I would not be able to earn what I currently make because the auto industry is the one I know. Is it hypocritical to continue to work in an industry that keeps people in debt while working my butt off to get myself out of debt? Hey Dave, can I come work for you? Honestly, we are hiring, Scott.

Starting point is 01:08:41 So we have a lot of sales roles open at ramsaysolutions.com slash careers, but that's for another day. To your question, truthfully here's my take, John might have a completely different take. I feel like we need Scott in the car industry. We need people with integrity who are leading people to the right decision who aren't scumburgers.

Starting point is 01:08:58 And it's easy to generalize an entire industry as this is a gross industry, but I think what Scott's doing here is noble, it's moral, there's no issues with it. If you are in the lending department and it eats away at your soul, you need to get out of there. But as the salesperson, it's not your job to say, hey, here's the lending part, here's the financing part. They're gonna go to another guy to deal with the financing.

Starting point is 01:09:22 You're there to say, hey, what is your budget? Here's a car that is in your budget. And then if they have questions along the way, you can steer them to go, hey, this one might be better for you guys. I want you guys to walk away from here debt free. There's nothing wrong with that as a salesperson. And yeah, you might not get as many commissions

Starting point is 01:09:37 as going, you should get the car that's way too expensive because it has the sweet feature. I think we need people with integrity steering people toward that. So you think Scott can sit down with people and say, okay. Until it eats away at his soul. What kind of money do you have? There's a soul tax to pay.

Starting point is 01:09:53 I think a Corolla's a great option for you. Instead of saying, oh, they just walked in the door, let's get them in a Land Cruiser. Even though we know they can afford the payment, right? So they may be the voice of reason. And there's a, people are adults when they buy cars, and they could always. It's not on you.

Starting point is 01:10:08 So don't feel the personal responsibility of that person's decision to buy a car they can't afford. And I wanna address the bottom of this. And this is a heavy one. This idea that for whatever reason, and we live in a wild world now where because of Twitter and because of social media, we know how our bosses vote.

Starting point is 01:10:33 We know who they vote for. We know what they think about this issue and that issue. And we know where they stand on this and this. Not to mention, oh, I thought I was selling cars. I didn't realize that y'all only make money on finance, right? We know so much more. Millions of people look in the mirror and say, can I be a part of this particular business for X, Y, and Z reasons?

Starting point is 01:10:54 Because I've got this set of values and somewhere along the way in this chain of value hierarchies, we don't align. The question often comes up, but I won't make this kind of money. A, I think that's a false sense of scarcity. If you've been able to work yourself up, like clearly this guy is good at what he does. He's a person, a character. He works really hard because he's moved from this position to this. He continues to get promotion. So let's let what has happened be the map forward. You'll find a new industry and you'll work really hard. You'll be a person of integrity. You'll make your way through that one too. He's a problem solver. That's right. That's the map forward. You'll find a new industry and you'll work really hard. You'll be a person of integrity.

Starting point is 01:11:25 You'll make your way through that one too. He's a problem solver. That's right. That's the skill set. He's clearly a good leader. They wouldn't keep moving him up. That's number one. Number two, you always have to go back

Starting point is 01:11:34 and ask yourself what's your integrity worth? And that's a scary, hard question. That's a scary, hard question for a guy like me, right? Like what if it, in my core guts, I just thought at the end of the day when I put my head on my pillow, I think you can get rich from airline miles. And my boss Dave is like, you can't get rich with airline miles. I'd have to ask myself, what's it worth? Right? What's it worth?

Starting point is 01:11:56 And so I think all- But there's incongruence every day. Right. And I just haven't been able to find a way to sleep at night when there's incongruence in your life like that. And so I think all of us have to ask that hard question and then go ask, all right, what must be true, right? But your kids will feel that lack of congruency, your spouse will feel that lack of congruency, your body will feel that lack of congruency.

Starting point is 01:12:19 So you might think you're just plugging along making such and such paycheck, but man, it will burn the rest of your life to the ground. It's tough, it's tough. So if you can be a change agent here, Scott, and stay in it and make peace with it, and not eat away at your soul, do it and keep helping people.

Starting point is 01:12:34 But if you can't, like John's saying, then you gotta make the move outta here. And we both believe you have the skillset to move into any other industry. And know that the other industry, they probably also sell stuff that someone can finance. So can I can I tell you that there was a pivotal moment in my life from a friend and extraordinary mentor of mine his name is Dr. Richard Beck he's a psychology professor he's an experimental

Starting point is 01:12:55 psychologist he's a genius, literal. One day I was sitting with him and some things that happened to some students and I was really struggling with it Whether the university's response was appropriate. I didn't sit well with me. So I went and sat with him And here's what he said. He said John like I get your your tension here. I get the angst and I think you're right Like as a mentor as a friend, you're I want you to know you're free to go like you're right And then he said just know that if you leave, those students will still be here. And if everybody runs out the door, just quote-unquote, because they can. Right? And that particular interaction shifted. So now I want to find places

Starting point is 01:13:42 where maybe I can offer an alternative voice or maybe I can say well what let's think of it this way and where can we find where can we like I love it you said this Scott this may be the greatest place for you. You may be the one salesperson that continues to say you know what I don't think you can afford the Camry but the Corolla is an amazing car let's go check it out and that you're the person constantly getting poked fun at by your fellow salespeople, because your commission checks are smaller,

Starting point is 01:14:11 because you keep directing people to cars that they can actually afford. You know what, the new lot is not for you guys. Let's go over here to the certified new lot, because I think this is gonna be a better option for you and your family long-term. What if you were that guy, and you slowly, painfully changed the culture in that

Starting point is 01:14:27 and people kept coming back to you because they trusted you? Well, that word of mouth alone, I'm going to go, hey, you need to go see this guy, Scott. Go see Scott. He'll tell you the truth. It's so much easier to stand out in a industry full of scum.

Starting point is 01:14:38 Yes. You're the one good guy. So if there's a place where your boss votes differently, okay, or what if you stayed? What if you stayed? And what if you said, let's think about it this way. What if you became over time a voice of reason, a voice of a new perspective,

Starting point is 01:14:54 and you continue to show up and continue to show up? I think that's how the world changes. If everybody heads for the exits when it gets hard and scary and uncomfortable, nothing changes. In fact, everything gets more polarized and everything gets harder. And so ask yourself that question, Scott,

Starting point is 01:15:06 and everybody listening, what if you stayed? What if you stayed and you just began to slowly offer different ways to see the world? I think that's how the world changes. Well, and especially in this industry, cars are amoral. Now, if this was a product that is inherently gross, if he's working for a payday or a title pawn, I'd say, all right, get out of there.

Starting point is 01:15:25 That whole place is scummy. Or like Dan the cocaine dealer. Yes. It's a car. Suddenly I can't. It's a car. It has utility. So this was the choose your own adventure, Scott.

Starting point is 01:15:35 We're not gonna tell you to do one thing or the other, but you need to follow your conscience and your values. And the fact that you wrote in maybe tells me it might be time for a different career shift. Who knows? There you go. Or you come here, work for Ramsey. And thanks for reading the book by the way. I didn't know I was that convincing, John. That's amazing. Yeah. And you've convinced me on some things. Really? Yeah. To do what? Um. Name one. Put them on the spot. Venmo. Oh, that's right.

Starting point is 01:16:01 You convinced me to get Venmo. You've almost convinced me. I was in Pennsylvania two nights ago, and I reached out to you and said, hey, will you... Sean doesn't know how to do like Instacart. Will you send ice cream as a surprise to my family? And I said, John, I'm not your personal assistant. I'd be happy to do that for my hourly rate, which you can't afford. I can't afford. You can't afford that. I can't afford that. But I would do it as a friend. But you did convince me to get Venmo, and I may get...

Starting point is 01:16:24 What? Instacart? Baby steps. Venmo and I may get Instacart? Baby steps. I think I'm gonna get Instacart. Let's take it one day at a time, John. I'm going to. Welcome 21st century, here I come. This is the Ramsey Show. ["Ramsey Show Theme"]

Starting point is 01:16:53 Listen guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. The truth is you get to decide what happens with your money. And if you want to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. The Every Dollar Budget app makes it easy for you to plan every dollar you've got coming in and every dollar going out. Plus it's free so no more excuses. Go download Every Dollar in the App Store or Google Play today. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. The Employee Benefit Research Institute recently did a study asking how many people have a

Starting point is 01:17:40 million dollars saved for retirement. According to their research, only 3.2% of Americans have a million dollars saved for retirement. According to the research only 3.2 of Americans have a million dollars or more in their taxed advantage accounts like a 401k and IRAs. 58% of Americans have less than $10,000 saved in their retirement accounts. Dude that's dark stuff. That's what I had no idea was that bad. 60% six out of ten Americans Basically could do a month and a half in a retirement home. That's it As a listener of the Ramsey show, are you staying on track with the baby steps to reach your financial goals?

Starting point is 01:18:16 Here's the deal. Take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you Simply head to the show notes, click on the link titled, Are You On Track With The Baby Steps and complete the free quiz. If you are one of the six out of a 10 of Americans that have less than 10 grand, there is a light for you, but you gotta get on it, right? You have to, you gotta begin to act differently.

Starting point is 01:18:39 George, that would freak me out. That would scare me to death. Yeah, and people think it's a life sentence. They think their DNA inherently has this in them, where they go, well, I'm just gonna, I'm a broke person, John. You can change. You can just snap your fingers and go,

Starting point is 01:18:50 I don't wanna live like this. I wanna change my family tree. I don't have to retire broke. And so this quiz will help you start to take the next step, figure out where you're really at. And if you just look at, man, basic demographic data, this same six out of 10 who have less than 10,000, I'll go as high as 70%, 80% that are fragile.

Starting point is 01:19:14 It's about the same stat that are living paycheck to paycheck. But also everybody knows that they're ringing the bell saying, hey, your social security is gonna be less than, like we're not solvent here in the next 10, 15, 20 years. By 2034, they're gonna reduce the benefit by 27%. So there is a- And it already wasn't that high.

Starting point is 01:19:33 It's a slow car crash coming. You gotta be your own financial plan. Act today, act today, act today. Check out the show notes, are you on track with the baby steps? Complete the free quiz, stare down this anxious moment in your life, and begin to do something different. Let's go out to Stamford, Connecticut and talk to James. What is up James?

Starting point is 01:19:55 Everything above the nose, John and George. How's this day finding you? Excellent, the same. What's up? Excellent. I need some advice. We're going to try it a little bit carefully because I am trying my best to thread the needle with my mother-in-law. She keeps giving financial and career advice to my family, specifically my wife, that do not work for our family situation and really do not work in 2024. So James, you do not have a problem with your mother-in-law. She has your proxy war. You have a problem with your wife.

Starting point is 01:20:33 I would think that you are probably correct. I am worried that my wife is going to listen to her mother. My, my mother-in-law was able to raise four children in the Midwest through the 80s and 90s without working. She, I don't believe, has ever worked a 40-hour a week job in her life. She couple of days, you know, helping out at this nursery school, couple of days here. So what do you disagree on with your mother-in-law? What does she want your wife to do? Stay at home? on with your mother-in-law? What does she want your wife to do? Stay at home? Well, yes, basically all of the advice that she's giving involves things around, we have two children under six, and it's comments along the lines of, you know, when both the kids are out of

Starting point is 01:21:17 daycare, my wife works as a daycare teacher as well, when the kids are out of daycare, you can leave that job and just teach music lessons. I make 60 an hour teaching music lessons, and that's great, but that doesn't make up for the income that we need in order to live where we do it. Okay, but here's the thing, James. I have the greatest mother-in-law who's ever lived. She's amazing, and I expect my mother-in-law to give the advice that she sees fit for how she wants the world to work. I acknowledge that too. But when it comes to the life that me and my wife have to build for ourselves, she doesn't get a vote. And so your

Starting point is 01:22:00 mother-in-law can say whatever she wants. Good for her. That's awesome. That's amazing. She's not the problem here. The problem here is, is you and your wife are not on the same page. And so it doesn't do, it doesn't matter what your mother-in-law is saying. It matters that you look at your wife and your wife says, hey, I want to stay home. And you say, we can't afford to do that. Or we can, but here's what it's going to cost. You have to sell the car. We can't live in this particular house or in this particular neighborhood.

Starting point is 01:22:29 Yeah, and at this point, we're having to have this conversation about every six to nine months or so. And I've tried showing my wife the math and that it does not work. So James, I'm hearing your wife wants to stay home. If she could have it her way, she would stay home. Is that true? I think that she gets the impression that she is working to pay for daycare and nothing else, and that once the children are out of daycare, that that need might disappear. And then she wants to stay home?

Starting point is 01:22:59 I think so. I think part of it may be a byproduct to that's the home environment that she was raised in. So she has seen it work, but that I don't think is realistic or sustainable. I want you to reverse engineer y'all's dream that you decide together. And that might mean, okay, here's the math of it. We can't do this right now. Here's why. But if she says, hey, my dream is really I want to stay home and you want to support that dream, then you go, let's do the budget. What's it going to take? Okay, I need to do this many more music lessons.

Starting point is 01:23:28 We need to do this. We need to cut our lifestyle by this to get in a financial place in order to do this. So I think she's the wow, you're the how. And you're going, we have no way to actually accomplish this. But then there's also the part of you don't want this to happen right now. So this is really, like John said, this is between you and your wife. She wants to stay home. You don't want this to happen right now. So this is really, like John said,

Starting point is 01:23:46 this is between you and your wife. She wants to stay home, you don't want her to stay home. And you take the mother-in-law out of it. Yeah, you keep crafting all these stories and imaginations like, well, it's probably because of this and maybe it doesn't matter. Just forget all the story parts. Just sit down and look at the woman

Starting point is 01:23:59 that you've made humans with. Look at the woman that you said I do till death do us part. Like what kind of life do we wanna have? What do we want this house to feel like when we get home every day? How much are you making a year James? Just you? Just myself about 60,000. And then are you doing music lessons full-time? No mother-in-law does music lessons. My wife no she's a music teacher by trade. Okay, what are you doing full time? I am a program director for a medium-sized nonprofit.

Starting point is 01:24:28 Okay. Okay. So I think we also need to go, okay, if this is in the future, my wife's staying home, we're gonna be a one-income family, what changes do I need to make? What education do I need to get? What career moves do I need to make in order to sustain a good life for my family?

Starting point is 01:24:44 And that's the part that I think scares you, is this involves you having to change too. Or at least it involves y'all having to have a truthful conversation about, hey, what do I want? What do I really want? I really wanna work at this job. I love my nonprofit work.

Starting point is 01:25:00 And I know I make half of what I could make in the for-profit world, but I feel valued and loved here. And then your wife looks across the table and says, I really want to stay at home with our kids. I see what happens in daycares. I want to be with our kids.

Starting point is 01:25:13 Okay, now we have a desires challenge. Both of us are being honest. Both of us on the table. Now we're just going to look at math does not care about what we want. Math is just math. So let's look at the math problem we have here. And maybe it's for three years, I'm going to stay at this nonprofit, but I'm going to work an extra job so that you can stay home because I know that's important to you.

Starting point is 01:25:34 And maybe it's, you know what, for three years, I'm going to keep working at daycare because at least I get to see the kids half the day. And we're not netting a lot of new income, but this mission that you're called to at this nonprofit is really important. But now you all are actually talking substantively, you're being honest with one another, and you're putting your hearts and minds and souls on the table like you promised each other you would at your wedding. And your mother-in-law doesn't get a vote. But right now when your wife says, well my mom says that I

Starting point is 01:25:59 that's her knowing if she just tells you what she wants, you're gonna blow by her with a spreadsheet. And when your wife says something and you go, well, it's just your mother-in-law speaking, that's you not being able to say, I really love my work. It means something to me. Do you get what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:26:17 Let's just take mother-in-law to the equation. Let's just talk directly with your wife. Is that possible? Yeah, yeah. Most of the time, you sound like a, um, actually you sound a lot like me, brother. You sound like a spreadsheet guy. You can pull up a spreadsheet and you can make the math work or you can be real honest about it not working. I want you to sit down with your wife and talk about emotions and feelings, which is maybe a

Starting point is 01:26:43 scary thing. Here's how I feel about this. Here's what I want. I feel like your mother-in-law has a seat at our table, at dinner table. I feel like your mom has a seat in our bedroom. I don't want her in here anymore. I want it to be us. What world do we want to create? Thank you so much for the call, my brother. This is The Ramsey Show. Music Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store,

Starting point is 01:27:50 or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Badabing, badaboom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.

The Ramsey Show - Stop Letting Other People's Problems Ruin Your Finances

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