The Ramsey Show - Stop Letting Others Call The Shots With Your Money

Episode Date: June 18, 2026

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author,

co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at AAA 825-225. Sam is in Boise, Idaho. Hi, Sam. What's up? Hi. I have a question, and it is, how do I protect our financial future without my husband 100% on board,

knowing I can't change him? What can I logistically do on a day-to-day basis? You can't. Okay. There's not a wall that you can put up that protects your family from goals and values that are not aligned. Okay. They have to become aligned.

So he's just like slower to get on board than I am. So he's like making progress. He's probably slower at everything than you are. Probably. That might be, that might, you might just be a wee bit enthusiastic. Is that what it is? That's pretty valid. Okay, let's have a little patience with the poor guy.

No, I'm serious. I mean, no, you can't change him, and we certainly don't want to change him into you. I don't want to change my wife into me. My wife is way slower to make decisions than I am. My wife is always going to default towards saving, not spending. And Sam, I'd be in your boat. Winston would be like your husband. As one of our therapists said, I'm very urgent, and I feel that for me too.

so maybe we're, I can relate. So, I mean, is that what's going on or is he just dug his heels in and goes, hey, the whole idea of saving money and getting out of debt, stupid, and I'm going to spend everything? He didn't really say that. No, I think he gets caught up in the urgency of, oh, no, we need a truck, or, oh, no, we need this, or, oh, my friends have this. And then all the long-term goals get thrown aside. And so, like, we've gone through the baby stuff. No, then we just sit down and say, no, wait a minute, wait a minute, we have long-term goals, and we agreed to those. And you're going to keep your agreement with me.

Okay. You know, because in the moment when you're not all hot and bothered about buying a new truck, your brain is actually working. But when you get all hot and bothered about buying a new truck, your brain shuts down and quits working. I know, because I do it. You do too. Everybody does it, right? Yeah. And so what you've got to just got to be called back.

to when we were sane and we were sitting at the kitchen table and the children were asleep and there was a candle burning and we were doing a budget and we were thinking about what things were going to be like when we're 65 and we're 35 and you know yes we can buy a truck but we have to do it in line with the way we said we were going to run our lives and you just call back to that you call back to that and you know and um you know and so and Sharon and I do that to that to this day and we've been working this stuff for 45 years, but we'll have to sit down and go, now how is that align with this? And we may have an argument to make about it, but, or maybe there's a slight adjustment or something, but you can't just go off the rails and go,

yeah, we've been working for three years to get out of debt and I'm going to screw it all up by going to get in a truck payment. Yeah, where are you guys at, Sam, financially? Do you guys have a lot of consumer debt? No, so we've paid off our debt twice now. and we're almost paid off with the third round. So we have a truck loan for $10,000 and a mortgage for $107, and that's it. So the third time you went back in debt is what you're talking about. Was the truck. You just keep going back.

Yeah, we can't make it through a baby set three. Yeah. Because mostly, I mean, not to like point the finger, but mostly because of his purchases. Correct. Yeah, motorcycles, side-by-side trucks, and we got rid of all. And you went along with those. Um, behind my back, some of them. Okay.

Yeah. This is not a money problem. This is a marriage problem. Yeah. You can't do things behind your spouse's back because you're afraid of your spouse. Trying to avoid conflict just absolutely took the whole thing up in fire. And it creates conflict. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. It was definitely like the, he knew I, like, like, was doing the numbers and the numbers weren't going to add up to another monthly payment. And so he did it anyway because he wanted the cool, shiny toy. And so then he's, that's breaking his word to his wife. That's a serious problem. Yeah.

Right. And if he is willing to do that here, then that can also move into other areas he's willing to break his word with. Right. And so this is not okay. It's not an okay pattern. Yeah, it's more of a, it's a trust issue. Right, when you get to the core of it.

Yeah. Which is everything against what your marriage should be. We agreed on this and you threw a 45-year-old hissy fit and went and bought an F-150. Correct. Yeah, that's just bull crap. Okay. That's not that. Now I'm not going to take up for him.

Okay. Instead, I'm going to throw him in the marriage counselor's office and let them wail on him a bit about breaking the word to his wife. You cannot build relationship with people you cannot trust. trust is the foundation for relationships. Broken trust breaks relationships, period. It's a foundational issue. Basic psychology, basic relational IQ. Yeah, and that would, I mean, send most people should send most wives.

Yes. And into a place of questioning everything. I'm like, oh my gosh, okay, if you're doing this. You're lie to me about that. what else you all right to me about what's happening yes like what is breaking down here yeah and so it's either him having to grow up and not only face the conflict but also tell himself no because he's functioning like a child and if something doesn't get turned around right and not only in your marriage but him this is like a kid on this four year old kid on a cereal i'll throw in a fit because he wants

fruit loops it's going to continue yeah he's only he's 45 years old and it's got a 65 000 on an F-150. Yeah, so I would be... I'm picking on Ford today, but could have been a chaufferado, but, you know. No, but Sam, you know, I've Dr. John Deloney in my head, but, you know, when he always talks about when you're approaching these conversations, making it not a you statement, even though he's been doing the action, it would be very easy to be like, you've done this, you done this. What's going on in you, Sam?

What's happening? The fear? The second question of yourself? I don't think I can trust you. Yes. I mean, what is going on inside of you as his wife and bringing that to you? to the table and telling him we need to sit down with someone and figure this out because this cannot continue to be a pattern where this becomes normalized. Not only just for the money's sake,

but again, we're going deeper than that. It's for your marriage and for the health of your relationship. I don't want to be your mother and walk around behind you and clean up your poop. No, because what you want on the other end is complete freedom and honesty and vulnerability and be like, I'm dying for a new truck. Let's talk about it. Let's see if we can make the numbers work, right? And then you kind of get to this place and you're like, we can't right now, let's map out a way that we can get there, like two grown adults. And that's what you want at the end of the day of you guys having the same set of values, maybe wanting to use your money for different things, but you at least have a plan that you're both working towards. And so that would be the goal,

Sam, for you guys. And it probably will take a third party. I mean, honestly, a counselor to kind of start that direction, that road to healing and getting you guys in a new set of value systems, because this is a mess. If you run a business, you already know this, bad information, leads to bad decisions. And right now, AI is everywhere. But AI is only as good as the data behind it. The best AI is built on the best data. That's why I recommend NetSuite.

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Paul is in Richmond, Virginia. Hey, Paul, how are you? Doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I have an issue with a solar company. I was scammed into making a long-term deal with them.

I was trying to find a way I can get out of it. How were you scammed? Well, the sales rep made promises to me that made me welcome. and say made me, but Lord me to make the deal. He promised that I would not have an electric bill because the company that...

Am I allowed to say company names? Let me hear the story. It doesn't matter. The company, he said the company was going to pay my electric bill in trade that I pay them for the solar.

He showed it to me from his iPad that the company was going to pay it. And also that another thing that was that I could walk away after five years if it didn't work in my favor. So those things were kind of the biggest things that lured me to going on with the deal. Were those things in writing?

He did not have anything in writing. He told me his contract that he had that for me to sign was on his iPad. So he showed that in writing on his iPad. just not in paper. And you didn't get a copy of that? He said they don't give out paper copies. Or an email? Did he email you the document, like a docu sign?

Oh, no, he did. He did? He did not. He did not. Okay. I'm curious, why did that, at the time, why did that bull crap line not concern you? I mean, he says, oh, you can't have a copy of the agreement you signed. that would concern me from the moment he said that, regardless of what it was.

I agree. I saw it on the iPad. He said this in the contract, so I read it myself, and I was like, okay, cool. And how long ago was this, Paul? Has it been the five years or less than? No, it was last April. Okay, and so the two things are, A, you could get out of it any time up to five years if it didn't work. and B, that they would pay your electric bill, and they have done neither, I'm guessing.

I found out in July of last year that they have not done either. They didn't pay the electric bill, and that's when kind of everything started rolling. Yeah, and so when you confronted them about that and said, I need a copy of the contract that the salesman told me this, what did they say? They sent a copy of it. Obviously, it wasn't the same thing that the salesman sold me. And they just were like, we're not backing out of it. We got you, and this is where we want to be.

Are they still open? The company that the financier company is, the company that installed it and that the salesman worked for is under bankruptcy. Okay. There's a couple of those deals. You need to check Federal Trade Commission.gov, FTC.gov. There's a couple of those deals that they have shut the solar companies down,

or they've gone out of business, and they are releasing people from the liability of the finance contract because of that. You need to see if this particular company is one of those. I don't remember the names of them, but there's two of them that are floating around out there. One of them was real big with the Obama administration. The whole thing turned out to be a scam. And they ended up dumping the whole thing. It was very embarrassing for the Obama administration.

So if it's one of those, then, you know, it may be that you just have to contact an attorney or contact the Federal Trade Commission, either one. But first thing I would do is go on FTC.gov, if I were you into a little poking around about that particular name and see which of the solar companies are having the, debt forgiven because they were scams. This sounds like it could be one of them. If it's not, and it's, you know, and yours is not in that bucket, then I would contact an attorney. And, you know, we would subpoena the, we would find the salesman who doesn't work there anymore because they're now bankrupt.

But I would find the salesman and put him on the stand and invalidate the contract. Because he puts you into a contract on a fraudulent basis. And I think you can be released from that. I'm not a lawyer, but probably going to cost you some money to do this. But, you know, some attorney's fees probably to get this done. And you're going to have to push really, really hard on it. But it's probably worth it because it's probably a lot of money. But I don't have a magic button that you can push. It's going to make this go away easy. I don't have that one. The closest thing would be if you're you're one of those companies that the FTC has shut down. And so FTC, Federal Trade Commission.gov, that's one you want to check out. And then get on the phone with an attorney if you're not one of those. That's what you would do. Sorry, Paul. Yeah. Now, when I do something that leaves me vulnerable or hurts me financially, I always look in the mirror and go, just like Paul was, Paul owned his part of it and say, okay, I did something stupid here that left me open.

And so when someone says, oh, we're going to do this, but I can't put it in writing, let me help you with that. That's code for they're not going to do it. If it's not in writing, it didn't happen. And if you don't have a copy of it in writing, it didn't happen. It's just missed. Okay? And so, you know, don't get so freaking ginned up by a salesperson or by your need to own a product, like I'm going to get solar, to the point that you leave yourself vulnerable for that.

And I've done a lot of stupid stuff. And every time I do something stupid and it costs me money, and Paul, this is going to cost you money. It's going to cost you attorney's fees probably before it's over. Every time it costs me money, I call that stupid tax. and I have paid so much stupid tax in my 65 years on this earth. My goal was stupid tax is to never pay the same tax twice. If I'm going to do something stupid, it ought to be a new stupid thing, not one I did before. And so since I have a whole collection of stupid things that I don't do anymore, now people call me wise.

And that's where wisdom comes from. It comes from all the stupid things you didn't do that you don't do anymore that you learn from. So at least go back and say, okay, as soon as that little butt said, you can't have a copy of it, it's only on my iPad. You should have tossed him on his head out the front door. Get off my property, scumberger, you know, instantly. Have you ever been scammed? This was like a sophisticated scam with like a salesman and everything. That wasn't a scam.

It was just a lying salesman. A lying salesman. Fair. No. That's good. Good for you. No. Not that I can think of. I can't think of one. Okay. It's good. I probably have, but I just can't think of one.

You know who scammed me last year? Who? The USPS. So I thought. Oh, the text. Do you remember they texted me? Yeah, I got a text yesterday from them. I get them all the time now and I say, I will not be giving you my information because I gave it to them. No way.

Yes. I had to get it. You did? Yes. Because I was legitimately. I was legitimately expecting a package, and it said my package was lost. And so you have to, like, enter in all your debit card information to pay a fee. I know. I know.

I was waiting on my package. Oh, Rachel. Winston was like, babe, did you check out? Did you look at the website? And I was like, I mean, I copy and pay, y'all, it was terrible. Anyways, I won't do that again. Fair warning. And I've saved a lot of people.

I told this on Smart Money Happy Hour, George and I's podcast. And I've saved a lot of people. People will DM me and be like, I got the USB. Your mother got that exact thing two weeks ago and sent it to me and said, hey, take care of this. We need to get this back. And I went, no, I'm not going to take care of nothing. This is a scam.

So any calls, any texts. I learned my lesson. I don't trust them. I don't trust them. USPS does not have your text number. No. No. Hint.

Neither does the IRS. Hint. Neither does a Nigerian prince. Hint. Okay, guys, let me ask you something. what would it take for you to switch your bank? Because if you're still earning next to nothing on your savings, you need to check out Fairwind's credit union. And I know what you're thinking. It might sound like a hassle. Moving your direct deposit, updating bills, getting a new debit card, feels like a lot. But here's what most people don't realize. Staying where you are could be costing you hundreds of dollars every year. Y'all, the average savings account pays less than half a percent. So let's say, for example, you've got $20,000 saved. You might earn around $7,000. $60 a year. But with a Fairwind high-yield savings account, earning 3% APY or more, that same money could earn you over $600. And that's real money that you can use towards the baby steps.

So don't let temporary comfort keep you stuck. Check out the smart bundle from Fairwind's credit union. You get a high-yield savings account, a no-fee checking account, and the Ramsey B-Weird debit card. Go to Fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more and make the switch today. That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey, insured by the NCUA. Cam is with us in Nashville. Hi, Cam. How are you? I'm great. I've saved up, Dave, $1.6 million in investments.

I plan to use it for my retirement. I've also been using it as my emergency fund. My question to you is, do I leave my six-month emergency fund in my investment account? Or do I pull it out and put it in a bank, or do I put it in under my mattress? In the sock drawer. So it's more psychological than it is mathematical. Okay? Mathematically, you would be fine to just leave it sitting there.

You've got so much money. You've done so good. Congratulations. Way to go. You're a multimillionaire. You've got enough money that if you need money, if you need $10,000 to, I don't know. bury a relative that died broke in Seattle, okay, and whatever, right? I'm making this up, right?

But you could just reach over to the mutual fund and do a withdrawal, right? Wouldn't be a big deal. And so mathematically, that's okay. I personally would coach you, though, to set and label something as an emergency fund. And that's psychological. And the reason is, I don't know if it needs to be six months, it could only be three. that's fine, and just put it in a high-yield savings account at Fairwind's Credit Union or something like that, okay? And just something simple.

And the reason is, then when an emergency hits, you don't start and think, okay, is this a good time to pull money out of my mutual fund? Because it could hit the day that Trump bombs Iran and the market drops 3% that day. And Kim's like, I'll just get a blanket and not fix money. I think I'll just put it on a credit card and pay it off after the bombing is over. You know? This is the kind of crap that goes through our minds if we're only doing math. And it's almost always the way life works. You know what I mean?

That the emergency happens at exactly the wrong time. That's part of why they call it an emergency. And so I like having that money sitting over there in a stupid, underperforming high yield savings account not doing nearly it's not doing nearly as good as my investments that's what i mean by stupid okay it but its purpose is not to invest its purpose is a buffer for me to keep my hands off my investments gotcha so that's psychological right if a hundred percent of the time we all knew we would dip into the end of the uh s mp index fund and pull the money out for the emergency, no matter what the market was doing, but we just

don't. We always play these mental gymnastics with ourselves. And so I have to trick myself into being smart. Yeah. Well, and for me, there's just like an ease to having that high-yield savings account. And we do. We have fair ones, and it's on the app. And we have that.

And then we have a whole other, you know, high-yield savings account that we have for other savings that we're doing. But just that, that emergency fund, it stayed there and we've, we'll beef it up still. Like, once in a night, we still have that. And there's just, there is for me where I'm like, the reality is you probably, honestly, Tristan, in your situation, racial situation, my situation, you probably, we have an emergency, you probably got it in checking. You're probably not even going to touch the emergency fund. But having it there, there's just this weird little thing. And three months is fine. You don't need six because you've got a bazillion months in good after-tax investments.

And so you're fine. You're not going to have a problem. It's just a matter of remembering that personal finances 80% behavior and I have to account for behaviors when I make these decisions. So it's an excellent question, by the way. And again, congratulations. I'm so proud of you. You've done so well.

Millions of dollars. Wow. Very cool. All right. Bianca is in Tampa. Hey, Bianca, what's up? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. I can go ahead. So my husband and I, we're so thankful. We got introduced to Financial Peace University through our church. And I would say over the last year and a half, we paid off all of our debt. Credit card, student loan, my husband's car payment. And I mean, we've been

kind of working on this before, but we just really started focusing on it after we, um, enrolled in Financial Peace University. And so we're at this point where we have our emergency fund set up. We're doing retirement, putting money away for our kids. But there's a caveat of I'm still leasing a car. And we didn't pay that off because we had this belief of like it's not really mine anyways because we've just been borrowing it, leasing it. And it has $10,000 left on the lease for about a year and a half.

And I'm wondering if I should just pay that off. Yes. Okay. Should I buy out the lease? Is there any benefit to buying out the lease when the car is done? Okay. No, you're buying it out now. Okay.

So you think I should just pay it off? Wait a minute. It's $10,000 is the remaining payments on the lease or the buyout? That's the remaining payment for the lease. The buyout is $42,000. Okay. Do you have $42,000? Yes.

But I do you like the car that much? If you want the car, pay your car off. If you don't, then you need to sell your car. And so I guess because I don't own it, it's a lease. No, you own it. Okay, it's an alternative method of financing, and it's a horrible method of financing. You have a car payment. We need to get rid of your car payment.

Okay, okay. So just pay off the remaining lease balance, which is $10,000. No, you need to pay off $42,000 or you need to get rid of the car. Okay. Okay. One of the two. So what's your household income? I'm around 180 a year. Okay. Well, you're doing really, really good, except you did some mental gymnastics on whether or not you actually own this car.

Trying to not deal with it. It feels like you're renting it, though, is what the least, like, psychologists are making you feel like it. This is not hers. This is Lexus, okay? And so, yeah, pay it off or dump it. It's just like you have a car debt. Just pretend like you have a car payment and a car debt. you do. You have a car payment and you have a $42,000 pay off and you have $42,000 in the account. Look at the car. Do I like the car $42,000 worth? If I don't, it's time to sell the car. If I do like the car, then pay it off and keep it. You can do that making $180. You're doing really good. Everything else you told me is on point. Yeah, you just managed to do an avoidance

technique here. And I just sidestepped that thing and just let it drive on by. No pun intended. Yeah. And so, yeah, but no, it's still there. So, folks, here's the thing. And let's go deeper into her position, I guess, on this. Car leasing is now 78% of the new cars that leave the lot. And a car lease, when you back out the numbers on it, and a closed-in lease works like this. You have a series of payments. At the end of the payments, you then pay a lump sum to own the car or you turn the car in okay and that's what you can run a financial put those numbers that stream of payments and a lump sum into a financial calculator as opposed to the actual MSRP the sticker price and back out what the cost is of what's called cost of capital in a lease and that is your interest rate on average it's 14.2% right now so you borrowed money at 14% to buy your car on payments. And the car company knows that.

That's why 78% of them leave. The lot right now are leases. They make more money on leases than they do putting you on payments. So there's more lease cars than just having a car loan. Yep. Yep. And not included in the car debt that we're seeing increase. You know, we've noticed that we hit the trillion mark the other day with car debt.

That's not even in the leases. because leases are not technically, as she's pointed out, considered debt. However, it's exactly what they are. It's a contract to pay payments. That's debt. And it's at a 14% interest rate, cost of capital. Okay? And so, and guess what?

They don't disclose the interest rate. You know why? Federal Trade Commission disclosure regulations do not apply because it's not considered borrow money. So they're sidestepping everything and screwing you people. Hello Ford Motor Company. Hello General Motors. Hello, Toyota. You're screwing people and you're getting away with it.

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Hey, brother. How you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, so my wife and I are getting married next month, and we're blessed to be in a good financial position. But my question to you is, if you're starting over, what principles would you follow to build a strong family and lasting wealth over the next few decades? Wow. That's an eight-hour seminar.

It's a really good question. There's a lot of layers to that. And are you asking beyond money, Tristan? Yeah, he's a strong family. family. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I agree. It's beyond money. We're blessed to be in the position that we are financially, so money is not really an issue. The way the Ramses would view this at my house is it would start with a foundation of faith. And so we would start with a spiritual foundation and say, all right, God is in charge, and now let's learn what he would say about these things. And that's where a lot of

the things we teach here on the air have come from is from Scripture. I mean, we present them in a non-Scripture, non-weird way, but most of the time. But it comes down to, okay, how are we going to do this? So an example of that would be one of the things I learned when I started over was, was that I didn't ask my wife's opinion about anything. I just went and did whatever I wanted to do. And she was okay with that because she was raising babies, and I was running a business. And so she didn't really want to go look at every piece of real estate I was buying.

I was in the real estate business, and I didn't ask her opinion. And so that's a huge mistake to not be constantly communicating about the items in our life. And so who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her. And he will have no lack of gain. And so when Sharon and I got aligned with, I don't make big financial decisions. She doesn't make big financial decisions. And we're in agreement on a budget without the two of us knowing everything and being aligned on that.

And so, you know, I had some 14-year-old C-dos at the last. lake house and so I bought new seedoos the other day at the lake house to upgrade for the grandkids and everybody to ride on but I didn't you know just call up the seedoo dealership and go bring me some seedos I said hey Sharon one of them's messed up we're getting some work done on them we talked through what the situation was it looks like the stupid things are you know time to upgrade um and we got the money any issue with that no none whatsoever but she did not walk down on the dock and go are those new that didn't happen that way so we're in agreement we're in alignment that's a big deal.

And that has saved me, like we don't make large generosity plays, philanthropy. We don't write large checks to ministries in support of them without us both talking about it and praying about it. So we make decisions together. That's principle number one. And that's a big deal. That saved me a lot of angst in my marriage and my relationship. and it's also saved me a lot of money because it kept me from doing some stupid stuff

I would have done probably on my own without her speaking into it. And she might have done on her own without me speaking into it. So I think that a spiritual foundation and out of that comes things like I will have no lack of gain if I listen to my virtuous wife.

And so out of that comes you know, a godly man leaves an inheritance to his children's children. And so I'm going to plan an estate that changes my family tree. And that includes the character of the people I'm leaving the money to. If they're a poor character and I leave the money, it ruins their life. Because you become more of what you are when you get more money.

And so, and we started talking about that to Rachel Cruz when she was three years old, to her brother and her sister when they were three years old. So, you know, you have to be a, worthy steward. You know, and, you know, if you're faithful in the little things, you'll be given more to manage. This is a teaching for your children. So I'm going to teach my children to give so that they don't think the whole world's about

them. They're not going to be entitled little brats, right? It's not about you, you know, and so I'm going to teach them to be givers. I'm going to teach them to save, which is a sign that they have some discipline and they can delay pleasure, which is a sign of emotional. maturity. I'm going to teach them to spend and enjoy their lives because our Heavenly Father, if we being evil know how to give good gifts to our kids, how much more so the blessings come from him. And so all of these things come out of that whole mindset. So Rachel, you kind of sat and

experienced that, I guess, on the other side, being raised in that environment, imperfect, not perfect, but it was very intentional. Yeah, very much so. And I think, you know, money can easily become an over, an over safety net, if you will. Yep, yep. And so you have to be careful of this balance, and that's why the generosity piece, I think, is really big. I feel like it does, it keeps you in check. When you write a literal big check to something, there's something, there's something

that just happens in the character of who you are. So that generosity piece, I think, is huge, and that plays into the character of you. You know, generous people are usually pretty humble people. that definition of humility. I think it came from Rick Warren, but he said humility is not thinking less of yourself, but it's thinking of yourself less, this way of servanthood

and looking at others, right, and what's going on in them, and it's not all about you, because money can easily become the center point of your life, because you have the ability to go do whatever you want because you have the money, right? And so that it can easily become

that your life is about you, that orbit. We put it back, Tristan, I was going to ask you, is this, do you guys have kids? Is this your first marriage? Or are you got, where you? We're our first marriage. We are both safe based. Okay.

How old are you guys? I'm 29. She is 25. Okay. Yeah, that's great. And I'll just say for Winston and I, I feel like one of the things we've learned and we've been married 16 years, so there's a lot of people. I've married much longer than us that probably have more thoughts on the marriage piece.

But I have found the healthier we are as individuals, the better our marriages. Like when I find that Winston is like working on himself and he's doing work over here and if I'm doing that, learning and growing over here, like there's something about that where I think for a little piece of me getting into this,

I thought marriage is the missing link and that's what's going to like create this better person of who I am. And I think the more we've gotten into it, the more I'm like, wow, when Rachel takes care of herself, she's a better version of her. And same with Winston. And it's created a healthier marriage when that's been our perspective.

And so there's something great. And then the thing that you told us, you told me early on in marriage, which I loved, was just serve each other. I think I was so worried about the roles and who's supposed to do what and what marriage formulas it's supposed to look like. And I remember you said, Dad, just serve each other. And there's something beautiful in that each of you has a voice. Each of your opinions matter.

And so there's not that there, that hierarchy really wasn't, I didn't. see that as much with you and mom. It was a very equal level playing field. Yeah. By the time you were old enough to see it, that was there. As husband and wife. Because of what I just described. Exactly. Yeah. Before you were born, it wasn't. I think that's big. I think that is for each of you to feel like you are heard and respected is big. Yeah. Submit yourselves one to another, says in Efficient. Okay. That's serving each other. Mm-hmm. You know, and so I'm going to put your needs ahead of mine. I'm going to put the needs of the family, family unit ahead of my own little selfish desire for a new pair of shoes or purse or a gun or a car or a fill in the blank thing.

And there's nothing wrong with any of those things. By the way, Remsey's have all those things, Sharon this week, Dave this week, you know, every one of those things. But it's not, those are not ahead of the good of the family unit's goals. It's not ahead of, they're not going to interrupt my generosity because I bought too many guns. Right, right. And I'm not going to interrupt my generosity because I bought some C-Do. Yeah, and another myth that I think we can kind of get into as well is that if I just have enough money, there's a level that problems for the most part kind of go away because I can

just fix them. Do you know what I mean? No, the more crap you own, the more repairman you have to know. Well, that, but also like, you're still human and people. And you know what I mean? Like, it's still, life is still going to happen. And so it's not, it's not this over-safety. out like I was saying earlier. And there's something that I think I don't know, we can kind of creep into.

And then you're like, oh gosh, but it's not like I'm not immune to life. We're getting our, we see God is, you don't say God is my provider, you say my mutual fund is. Yeah, right. Yeah. And that's a dangerous spiritual ground. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you completely. Hey, you guys, did you know that there are thousands of data brokers whose entire business is collecting and selling personal information, things like your home address, your phone number, and even your relatives names? You guys, that is just crazy, but that is why I use Delete Me, because those companies that pull information from public records, social media, and all kinds of other places. Then suddenly, all that information shows up on random websites.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Kim is in Baltimore. Hi, Kim. How are you? Well, I've been better. So I'm sort of in a crisis situation at the moment, and I really need some advice. I'm a 53-year-old stay-at-home mom. I've been married 23 years. About three years into our marriage, my husband asked me to quit my career to help open a business. So I did so. I worked in the business with him for about two years. And then we got pregnant, started a family, had kids. So I've been staying at home with kids for the past 17 years. Since then, he's controlled everything.

He doesn't let me have access to any kind of account. I know nothing. He doesn't let me have access to anything. I get an allowance on a credit card once a month. Once that allowance cuts off, it's done for the month, and I have to wait for the next month to have money again. That allowance is supposed to cover my gas, everything for the kids, food, stuff like that. It's not a very generous amount.

How long has that been going on? Oh, that's been going on the better part of the 17 years, pretty much. Why have you tolerated it for 17 years? Because I'm an idiot. I was scared. I've been scared. What are you scared of? Him? Anytime I go up against him, he punishes me by, like, taking stuff away or making my life even harder.

Anyway, I have no access to anything. and he gets a text message, even with the credit card. How long has you been hitting you? He doesn't hit me. He's all verbal. It doesn't hit me at all. It's just verbal and financial. Where is your family?

The parents will leave that will stop at nothing to help him. Wait a minute. I don't care about him anymore. So your mom and dad are gone? Yes. They've been gone for 20 years. Your siblings are gone? My sister, yes.

She committed suicide. I have one sister, but she's basically not anyone that could give me any support. She's an alcoholic and not in a good place. Do you have kids, Kim? Yeah. I do. I have two kids, twins, boys. How old are they?

We're 17. But this gets worse. So anyway, I recently found out he's having an affair. Shocking. behind my back. Yeah, right. Secretly behind my back. He's in the process of opening the second location of our business with her, so she has somewhere to work. He doesn't know that I know any of this information yet. He recently went to the bank to get a new business loan to open this shop.

I don't know how that's going to play into debt. You know, like, is he opening this shop and making it look like he has more debt and, you know, wanting to divorce me? I did see that he had reached out about looking to get a divorce. With an attorney, his father is his accountant, and him and his father hide everything. Basically, they make it look like the business is a loss every year, but every single thing that he buys right down to his ED medication goes on a business card. So he's paying for everything with business expenses, but then claiming that he doesn't make anything. and like I said, his dad and him hide all of this.

So right now I'm in the house with him. He doesn't know that I know that he's having an affair or starting a new business. I don't know what to do. I don't have any funds to get an attorney. In fact, he laughed at me before in the past when I brought up divorce, and he laughed in my face and told me that I don't have access to money, and then I could never fight him because I can't afford an attorney. And he's right.

So I don't know what to do right now. I have so many legal questions to ask. Yeah. And I don't know what to do. Let's first establish that he's full of crap, okay? You have access to all kinds of money once your attorney shuts him down and takes half of what is in the accounts. And then, Maryland, they'll do that fairly quickly. And so, you know, if you get half of everything that's in his account, you get plenty of money for an attorney.

justified him for years. And so he's bluffing or he's an idiot and doesn't know what he's talking about or both. But he's just got you, he's got you buffaloed is what we would call it, got you cowed. And you believe, you believe that he is stronger and smarter than he is. And he's not. Great. He's not that bright. He's not that smart. And he doesn't have the law on his side. So, yeah, you do need an attorney and you do need to leave as soon as you possibly can. And you do need to load the kids up and take them with you. But we've just got to figure out where you're going to go, where you're going to go to a domestic violence shelter, you're going to call your church, talk to your pastor, and then you get on the phone once you get out of there and find some, you know, find some legal counsel that will take on this guy.

And because legal counsel can get paid, they just got to get paid out of those accounts that he has control of. And it's very possible, very easy. You can't get a $10,000 deposit up front because you don't have $10,000. Okay, but you can explain to them what's going on here, and some good divorce attorney would kind of think this is going to be fun. Right. They're going to mop the floor with him. I know there's a good local attorney. I've called.

I have an appointment with her, but it's her first available appointments not until August 18. Well, call her up and tell her you have a toxic, abusive situation. and you need to move the attorney. You need to get an appointment sooner. I've told them that. That's the first they have. I've tried a couple times. They did put me on a waiting list.

More than call another attorney. And call another attorney. Okay. You have to be done letting other people set the agenda in your life. An attorney that can't see me until August might not be my attorney. A guy who won't give me any money might not be my husband. A guy who has an affair, probably not. going to be my husband. The accountant who's his father and is committing fraud to avoid taxes

might go to jail. Right. I mean, by the way, tax fraud is criminal. Right. So what you're describing there, not only doesn't survive an audit, but if the IRS proves it's intentional, then all players might go to jail, the accountant's father and the moron husband. And so, you know, maybe he, maybe a call to the IRS and say, hey, you've got some players over here, a lot of checkout. Am I correct in my thought that he's not legally allowed to be putting all this stuff on business expense? That's what I'm talking about. Everything. That's what I'm talking about. I mean, that's not legal, right? No, it's not. And at a minimum, it doesn't survive an audit and a maximum, it could be criminal. And depending if they're hiding income and revenue from the

company so they don't pay taxes. That's criminal. Right. There's tax. There's tax. There's tax. avoidance and then there's tax fraud. There's two different things. Okay. So anyway, but that's not, that's not the issue here. You know, that's just, is one more notch in the belt that says this is a bad guy. It doesn't really affect you because you're not going to be there anymore. Right. Right. So, yeah, do you, are you involved in a church at all? I am not. Okay. All right, hang on. I'm going to have Christian pick up and we're going to hook you up with one of our financial coaches in the area and get you plugged in with a good church and get you plugged in with some good attorneys and see if we can't get you out of there pretty quick because this is this is done

terrible i'm so sorry come horrible situation what you've described is not something anyone should stay in hey i want to talk to you for a second about love and not love like in titanic or something i mean responsible love the kind of love that moves you to take care of the people closest to you And one of the most important ways to show that kind of love is by having term life insurance. If you have anyone depending on you, a spouse, kids, anyone, you need term life insurance. Term life insurance gives your family real protection if the unthinkable happens so they can spend their time grieving and not worrying about how the bills are going to get paid. Zander is a broker who works for you, shopping the top companies to find the right coverage options

for your needs and your budget. In many cases, there are options available with no medical exam and instant approval. My wife and I had term life insurance through Zander for years long before I worked at Ramsey because we trust them. Getting term life insurance is a way of saying, I love you when you can no longer say it yourself. Go to zander.com or call 1-800-356-4282 to find the coverage that fits your family. John is in Minneapolis. Hi, John. How are you? I'm doing good. How about yourself? Better than not.

deserve what's up well I wanted to kind of pick your brain on my situation so um I am debating filing bankruptcy uh getting a secured credit card to potentially buy my first house in two years um right on COVID I got myself into about 12 grand worth of debt and I could pay 1500 bucks filed chapter 7 and start saving now um it is relevant to say that I got a better job since then. I now make anywhere between 10 and 25K a month. But I also have a girlfriend. You make 10 to 25K a month and you're worried about $12,000 in debt?

Yeah. You realize how lame that sounds? I know. Yeah, but I'm also taxed at a heavier rate because it's considered conviction. Whoopey. You make $25,000 a month, you could have lived on 12 and paid off 12 in one month. So you don't think it's worth it to save the money? Oh, I think it's assonine. You make so much money. Go pay your bill, dude.

It's up and down, Dave. Well, between 10 and 25, cry me a river. $120,000. To $250,000. John, you got $12,000. Debt, that's it. You didn't call me with $1.2 million in debt. Right. I guess it does sound silly.

Yeah. Okay. So let me back up. Let me back up three steps, okay? This money is new, this money, this income is very new, isn't it? Yes. Yeah. And that's why you haven't done the calculation I just did. Okay. So if you make $10,000 a month, that's $120,000 a year. If you make $25,000 a month, that's $300,000,000 a year. So you're making $100,000 to $300 somewhere in there in the coming months. but your brain has not caught up with that math yet because you've never made that before. And you certainly hadn't made it lately. Right. And well, I'm also, my girlfriend has good credit, and I'm trying to get mine back on track, but I have to take care of the debt first.

Well, the bankruptcy won't help that, John. Bankruptcy puts you out of the house business for two to three years. And by the way, they're not going to let you file Chapter 7. there's a means test when you go to file of chapter seven which wipes all the credit card debt out and the means test says looking at your income do you have the ability to pay this back and the judge is going to go uh-huh and they're going to throw you into a chapter 13 for five years so your plan's not going to work even if i would go along with it i'm not going to go along with it because it's not good for you so what would be much better it so you were making nothing before hardly i mean you

You must have had no income, not at a low income before, did you? Like six to eight grand a month. Yeah, it wasn't that much. Well, that's more than I was thinking. Not bad, John. What's your lifestyle like? I don't understand. What are you doing with all this money?

If you don't have a house, how much is your rent? My rent is only 900. And I had a repossession of a vehicle, and I since cleared off a lot of my debt, but I still have this chunk hanging. and I went down and I bought two used cheap cars that we got in on trade at the dealership, so I had good deals on. And so I haven't planned on, that's what I kind of do is just plan on keep paying cash for vehicles. But my girlfriend, I want to upgrade her vehicle. And I'm also helping her wipe out her credit card.

John, you're talking about filing for bankruptcy and upgrading your girlfriend's vehicle in one sentence. Like, no, no, I think your priorities are all over the place. Do you feel that? Do you feel chaotic? Do you sell cars for a living? I'm a finance manager at a Ford dealership. Okay, I thought so. Okay.

All right, so let's slow down a little bit. All right. Girlfriend has started to become, in this conversation, high maintenance. She wants a car. She wants a house. She gets nothing until you get your green. grown-up life straightened out, honey. You got to get your grown-up life straightened out, and you don't be buying cars for people you aren't married to and buying houses with people you're

not married to. And you certainly don't do that to, and you certainly don't do that to make them happy because they're not worth being married to if that's what makes them happy. So, and, and, and, and, warning, warning, okay? So now, so we're going to set her aside and let her have her little life while we date her. And we're going to look at John. Now, John, makes six to eight to ten to twenty five thousand dollars a month so I want John to sit down and say do the math you know how to do math you're a finance manager for God's sakes sit down and do the math and say okay where is my $10,000 going where is my $12,000 going where is my $8,000 going and then make it behave I want you to buy food

shelter, clothes, you have $900 rent. Very good. Okay. Pay the cars off. Any car that is in your name is to get paid off or sold, and you need to clear these debts. Now, then, as you know, you're sitting in the chair looking at credit reports every day. Credit reports age out. Anything that is not a bankruptcy stays on seven years, but approximately three to four years out, an old repo, an old defaulted. credit card that has now been paid off and made good, an old repo that has been cleared up and made good, the deficit has been negotiated out. All of that that's three or four years old hardly counts against you anymore. It might bump your credit score, but you can go get a house. But you need to put these things all paid off, all cleared, so you can get the credit report clock ticking because when they tick off seven years, they will all disappear. But Chapter 7 bankruptcy is 10 years, though, my friend. It stays on their 10 years.

And when you have them fill out an application in your office to get a Ford Motor Credit loan, it doesn't say if you file bankruptcy, it doesn't show up on your credit report. It says, have you ever filed bankruptcy? And if you say no and you have, that's fraud. So the answer is, for the rest of your life, you have to say, I filed bankruptcy. I was making $15,000 a month and I had $12,000 worth of debt. That would be stupid. You don't want to do that.

I'm out of loss for words. That doesn't happen ever. I'm just confused. I just don't, I just can't get in his brain. I'm not sure. I don't understand his logic. No, maybe. She wants a nice car.

She wants a nice house and he wants to impress him. But that has nothing to do with him filing bankruptcy. I mean, like, I just don't agree. thinks it's the shortest way to get there. Of all of it, though, I don't. It just, yeah, it just makes no sense. So, yeah, John, I would make a, I would make it a goal. Live on $4,000 a month.

It's plenty with your rent, lights, cell phone insurance, and throw $6 grand this month at the debt, and the next month the same. You're completely debt-free. Get an emergency fund. And I would work on John. There's a lot of, she need, you said she wants a new car. It's like, no, no, she doesn't want to.

I want it. There's a lot of ego in all of this. I would do some work on John if I were you, John. I would. I'd get to the bottom of what some of this that you're grasping at. You're grasping at a reality that's not there. And it's so interesting to hear you talk about it because I don't, I don't know. I don't get it.

I'm at a loss. I am at a loss. Yeah. And I think our audience is too. Everyone just, we all just kept looking at. each other. I don't get it. I don't know. I don't know. Well, it's... And bankruptcy is the most extreme. I think that's it too. Bankruptcy is the most extreme. I think if he called and was like, I don't know, I'm thinking about doing debt collections

and letting it go, you know, letting it go to be bad debt and be sold and try to negotiate it. Like, even that, I'm like, okay, that's not a smart thing. But bankruptcy. I'm like, that's just one of the most extreme things that you can do to yourself financially. But somebody on TikTok told him that in two years he can get a house if he has no debt starting today. And the best way to get rid of the debt is bankruptcy. And all of that, of course, was TikTok law, which isn't real law and isn't how bankruptcy really works. There's a means test. You were very empathetic with John.

When you go in, I'm not. I'm not. You were that. I'm just trying to help. Just trying to make sure he hears me. That's all. We are for you. We are for you. We want that. Yeah, I don't want it to end up to be shameful.

We're just confused by you. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Summer is here and whoa, everything changes this time of year. The kids are out of school, routines are out the window. You're traveling more, probably sleeping less. And if you're not careful, you and your family can end up running on fumes. I know I'm running on fumes right now. If you don't take time to slow down and take care of yourself, all that stress is not just going to disappear.

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Go to BetterHelp.com slash Ramsey to get 10% off. That's BetterHelp, help.com slash Ramsey. Buying or selling a home is a high stakes event. You need a pro in your corner. If you went somebody that didn't get their license three weeks ago and knows your mother from Bridge Club, that's not how you pick your realtor. You get a real estate agent that does a lot of real estate deals. They know what the flip they're doing.

They're high octane, high protein. That's how you get to be a rinketor. Ramsey trusted, vetted real estate agent. If you want to connect with one for free, click the link in the show notes, or head on over to Ramsey Solutions.com slash agent. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YREFI. If you've fallen behind on your private student loans and don't know where to turn, Y refi works with borrowers and other, that other lenders won't work with, and helps them

explore low fixed rate refinancing options. Go to YREFI.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter why. R-E-F-Y-Y dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Max in Ohio. I am a 70-year-old retiree. My wife and I prepared well for retirement and have no debt, including our home. I would like to lease a car for three years and then give it back and repeat the process

every three years. At our age, I don't want to worry about paying for car maintenance. Considering that we can easily afford this, is it okay for us to lease rather than buy a car? leasing a car does not get rid of maintenance. You're still responsible for the maintenance. You're thinking because you're driving a newer car, you're not going to have any... Paying for maintenance. I wonder if the warranties...

Maintenance is not included in a lease. If the warranty for... Well, the warranty would be on the new car whether you bought it in cash or whether you leased it. And the quality of the car, not needing as much maintenance might be what he's referring to. I want to drive a nice car sign to worry about... Well, you just said not worrying about paying for car maintenance, paying for it. You do pay for car maintenance, but he don't have to pay for it if there's not much. Like a brand new car, you don't have a lot of maintenance on it.

Yeah, that's true. So that's what I'm thinking he's thinking about. I want to drive a nice car that doesn't require a lot of maintenance, okay? If that's what you're saying, it's ridiculous to do it the way you're talking about. You should just buy the car. And go buy a brand new car. It sounds like you're a multimillionaire. If you're a multimillionaire and you want to go buy a $100,000 car, go buy a car.

Just write a check. And then three years later, if you feel like, if you feel like, you feel like a millionaire, you're, if you feel like, that car is getting old, then write another check, get you another one. And you're going to take a loss on that car. But you're going to take a bigger loss if you lease it. Because 100% of the loss in value is built into the lease. So whatever you would lose by buying a new car and trading it every three years, you're paying for it in the lease. You're going to lose more than that by leasing because the lease covers at least that plus a profit, plus a cost of capital. And the interest, yeah. Yeah. So your theory breaks down. And if you think that leased cars have less maintenance than cars that are paid for

that are the same exact car, they don't. And there is no lease maintenance program. Now, you could rent one at Hertz, and Hertz will keep it, but that would be like super expensive, right? If you want to go at Hertz or dollar rent a car and rent you a car the whole time, they'll maintain their car. But you're going to pay through the nose for that, obviously, and that's not what you're talking about. So I'm thinking that what he's talking about is that a nicer car doesn't require as much maintenance. And if I get a new car every three years, I'm looking at how so much. And I don't have to worry about it. And if you can afford to do that and you want to do that, I don't have a problem with that at all.

It's just you're losing a lot of money in the first three years is when a car loses its most value. Because cars lose 70% of their value in the first five years. And so a $100,000 car becomes a $30,000 car in five years. that's burning cash. But if you got a lot of money, you can afford to do that. I just bought a brand new Ford Bronco, Raptor package, okay? But I can afford for the thing to be worth nothing in a few years. I can afford for that.

It's not going to affect my life. I've got enough margin. And if that's you, you've got enough margin and you want to do this, I'm fine with that. You know, that's why you've worked. But don't lease it. Don't lease it. No, no. Horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible.

Did I mention that it's horrible? Rachel is in Huntsville. Hey Rachel, what's up? Hey, Dave. Okay, so I am newly married and we are in the process of blending a family of five and getting a mortgage, taking care of a rental property, getting it set up to be rented, and still on babysat tooth. So right now, my question is... Wait a minute. Rental property. One of you that had the house that's going to become a rental property used to be your house?

Yes. Why don't you just sell it? So he, that could be a possibility. Yeah, it is a possibility. Clear up all your debt. So it's a tiny home, and it probably wouldn't clear up all the debt. It might ring 130. Good.

So the house that we're in now, it was a fully remodel. So I have to refinance it because I have a HELOC on it, a personal loan, and the original $60,000 mortgage. Yeah, but how much other debt do you all have other than what you just mentioned? I have it all out. So like $9,000 in credit cards, $7,000 in student loans, an $18,000. Okay, and that's not, and then on the house you've got a first mortgage. It's how much? 170.

170. And the he lock is how much? The first mortgage is 60. I'm sorry, 60. And the he lock is how much? 88. 88. And a $15,000 personal loan.

So 170 total is what our new mortgage is going to be. Yeah, I was just, I needed extra, I didn't want, or didn't have it in the hewold. 75, 150. So 200K, what's the house worth? 235. Ooh. Okay. You max this thing out, didn't you?

And the tiny house that's worth 130, what's owed on it? Nothing. Oh, perfect. Sell it. Clear up 9, 7, 18, 15, and then refinance the 60 and the 88 on a 15 year fixed. Okay. I mean, my husband is really one. the rental income and already has someone.

That's stupid. We're going to borrow on your home, your $235,000 house to buy a tiny house for rental income. Gross. No. Yeah. And it's effectively what we're talking about. My original question was, you know, like right now with the mortgage, was I going to do a 15 or a 30. And I wanted, you know, my husband's like, you're going to get rid of all this

out. Yeah. When you only got 60 and 88, and you only got 60 and 88, and that's your only debts, and you refinance those on a 15-year fixed right now, you're talking about five and a half or so. Which is pretty wild, Rachel, yeah. Five and three quarters. You're going to be in great shape. You're going to have no payments anywhere. You paid off your car, your student loan, your credit card, your 15,000, and, who, we're free. We don't trade a tiny house rental. Even though the tiny home may only bring $1.30. I know, but you owe nothing on it, right? Right. Okay, so $130 in my hand will pay off $15, $9, $8, $9,7, $18. You can even pay off a bunch of the he lock.

Pay down the he lock. Don't even do a refurb of mortgage. I think you can pay off the he lock and everything else and only have your first mortgage. Yeah, with $60,000. What's your $60,000? interest rate on the 60? Seven and a half. A little rough, yeah.

And the new, the ones that I'm, the ones that I'm looking at right now to do the refive, the house Helock and personal loan, the 15 years, 6.625 and $1,700 in life. Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't do that. I'd sell the tiny house and be dead free with $60,000 owed on my home. And then the thing is, it's real. And be 100% free. Get on a budget with your new husband.

The two of you throw your incomes in together and let's go get rich. Yes. And then if you guys want to buy a tiny house. home and rent it out in a few years, you can do that. Well, if they want to, some people, Dave doesn't want to. Rachel may want to. You, Rachel, you may want to. But if y'all do, just do it with cash.

Like, this is your ticket out. A tiny home has a tiny market. Nobody wants it. Yep. That's why they're, it's just a fad. Yeah, no, no, no. If you get 130 for that thing and clean up all of this, this is your ticket. Definitely what you want to do.

And then you ask yourself, would I take a loan out on my home that has $60,000 mortgage to buy a tiny home to rent? The answer would always be no. And effectively, if you don't sell it and do all this, it's the same thing. Let me tell you something I see happen way too often. People fall behind on their bills and they wait. They hope it will work itself out. It won't. That's why I recommend Guardian Litigation Group.

Here's the deal. If you've missed payments, collectors are calling or if you're getting letters, threatening legal action, that's not something to ignore. That's the moment to deal with it. Because when you do nothing, it escalates. They can take you to court. And if you don't respond, they can win by default, and that gets expensive fast. Guardian litigation isn't a call center. They're an actual law firm. From day one, you're assigned an attorney to represent you. So if things do escalate, you're not scrambling and you're not hit with surprise legal fees. Guardian litigation only gets paid when the debt is negotiated and you accept the settlement offer.

This isn't about shortcuts. It's about dealing with the problem before it gets worse. Go to Guardianlit.com slash Ramsey today. That's Guardian, L-I-T-com slash Ramsey today. Attorney advertising, results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. All right, here's a technique that will help you. It's helped me a lot. make decisions like our last callers facing.

And it's one of the reasons you will hear me be so incredulous and so quick and harsh to judge on something because it's the technique I'm using. I'll just share it with you inside baseball. Okay, here we go. It's called a sunk cost analysis. A sunk cost analysis is simply this. You don't make decisions based on how you got here. you make decisions that's the sunk cost you make decisions based on where we're going so five years from

today what do you want your life to look like not five years ago all these things happened you don't do your analysis based on all the the trauma or the bad decisions or the what you thought was a good decision but now that you're married it's not a good decision anymore because you wouldn't do that if you were married and all that kind of stuff. So all that matters now is we're getting married and we're moving forward together. She's got some kids. She has a house. I have a tiny house.

Okay. That's all that matters. How we got here or what my little dream was prior to this doesn't matter anymore. The second, and the way you can determine the bit, okay, what's going to put me in the best shape five years from today is to reverse engine. where you are. Okay. And you ask yourself the question, if I, instead of that item, if I had that pile of money in the middle of my kitchen table, would I buy that item? You can do that with anything. You can look up like, you know, there's an old joke that says there's two great days of owning a boat. The day you buy it, the day you sell it, right? Which means that usually by the time

people get rid of a boat, they're sick of their boat. Now, I'm a boat person. I've got a couple of boats and I'm not sick of them at all. They're excellent boats, they're master crafts, world's best ski boat. There's an advertisement for you. And, you know, so, but, um, but I'm not sick of them. And so, but I do know what they're worth. And if I look down on the dock at that boat and I say, that boat, that's not true. I won't make, I won't use real numbers. But let's just say that boat's worth $40,000. Okay. And if I had $40,000 in the middle of the table, kitchen table, and I didn't own that boat, would I go buy that boat today? If the answer is no way, then sell the boat

because you'd rather have the $40,000 than the boat. That's the reverse engineering of it. Okay. So if you look up at her situation and you say, I can rent out my tiny $130,000 tiny house for $500 a month. Meanwhile, I can pay payments on $9,000 worth of credit card debt, $7,000 worth of student loans, $18,000 worth of car, $15,000 worth of personal loan, and $88,000 worth of Heelock. Those payments are going to be a lot more than the rent that that tiny house will bring in,

and that tiny house being sold will clear up all of those payments. So the way you would reverse engineer that and say, if I didn't own this tiny house, and the only way I could buy it would be to borrow 88 on a helock, 15 on a personal loan, nine on a credit card, seven on a student loan, and 18 on my car to go buy this tiny house. Would I go buy this tiny house by doing it that way? And the answer is, hell no. Not even close. You wouldn't even think about doing that, you know?

Not even close. No way would you trade a $500 rental income for getting rid of all those payments, ever. No way. doesn't make sense. And so that's why it's instantaneous for me to give that answer. But all I did was I just reverse engineered it is if you didn't own it and you had $130,000 sitting in the middle of the kitchen table and you could either pay off all of this debt with it or you could go buy a tiny house, no one in the right mind would go by the tiny house. It's a ludicrous mathematical equation, not even close.

And it doesn't matter how we got here. that's where we are. So you reverse engineer it and you ask yourself, would I do that? No, I would not do that. Be asinine to do that. I'm not doing that. And so that's why we can answer her with such force so quickly. And you can do that for yourself any time.

You say, okay, I've got money in a stock. My grandpa gave me a stock. Well, I don't care. I don't care where you got it. You have Exxon stock. and you have $400,000 in Exxon stock. I don't know anything about Exxon. I've not looked at it lately.

I don't know what the stock is. I'm not making a judgment about Exxon one way or the other. But you just ask yourself, if I had $400,000 in the middle of the kitchen table, would I go buy Exxon stock? Probably not. Because you were not well diversified. But you just got it from your grandpa. And it's not like it's his family Bible.

It's stock. It's not got an emotion tied to it. it. And so if you wouldn't go buy it again with that same amount of money, then don't keep it. And if you do that, if you practice that exercise, you can make decisions on whether to buy an investment, whether to keep an investment, whether to buy an item, whether to keep an item, instantaneously. It's the same part of your brain that says, I'm going to throw all this stuff away because I'd rather have a clean closet. It's the exact same part of your brain that you're using. It's the clutter out.

It's a declutter. It's a cleansing process. And you say, would I do it again if I hadn't already done it? No, then undo it and sell the car. Sell the boat. Sell the Exxon stock. Sell the tiny house. Whatever it is.

But if you go, oh, no, I think in the next five years the best possible investment on the planet is a tiny house bringing $500,000 in rent on $130,000 investment, which, by the way, sucks as an ROI. But if you really believe that's the best thing, then you should keep it. But you can't possibly believe that. Okay. Not, not, no. All right. Katie is with us in Portland, Oregon. Hey, Katie, what's up?

Hi, thank you guys so much for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So, okay, my husband and I, this week, just combine our finances. This week? Yes, this week. It's brand new. Okay.

How long y'all been married? We've been married for three years. How many? Three. Three years. Okay, good. Okay. Yes.

We did together for eight and a half years. And that entire time, it was made very, very clear that we were never going to be combining finances. The reason for that being, he had a previous marriage, and through a bunch of different things, ended up having to go bankrupt and had a lot of trauma where finances are. or concerned. And so I never expected to be combining finances with him, even though it was something I really wanted. But because of our debt and just our situation, he did come to me and finally said, hey, okay, I guess this is something we can try because it was something I was pushing for.

That was hard for him. It was incredibly hard for him. And it happened immediately after a big moment of conflict. And so I just think there was a lot of trust. A lot of humility. Good for him. He's a great man. I had been sending him videos of their guys is for a little while, so that may have helped.

But yeah, so my question really just boils down to, we've been sitting down trying to figure out how to restructure, how to combine, how to do this smoothly. Oh, it's messy, isn't it? It is. And it brings up all the emotions every time you look at a number. And every time I look at him, he looks like he's going to pay. puk and I feel so bad. Just give him a hug. I hug him.

And remind him that you think he's a great man. Let me just tell you, this is a hard thing you're doing. Okay. But it's worth it. If it is strenuous and it's causing your stomach to come up in your throat, both of you, that means you're good human beings. You're facing awkwardness to get a better future. Well, we were gifted financial peace university by our neighbors who have become our very best friends.

And they are the biggest fans of you guys, and they believe so much in your process. Let me tell you what. I'm big fans of you and your husband. Hey. And I think the way you've approached this conversation and his humility and what he's doing, but that is not going to mean it's going to be easy. I only promise you that it will get easier. When we combined our finances, I almost puked every night

because I was used to being in complete control, and I no longer was. I was now accountable. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Andrew is with us in Philadelphia. Hi, Andrew. How are you? Hey, Dave.

Hey, Rachel. I'm going to talk to you guys today. You too. How can we help? So I would like to take your brain on this question I'm having with myself, and that is to, should I leave my current stable job to pursue going back to school for the, like a more fulfilling job. Okay. What would you be going to school for? So I would like to go back to school for to become a marriage and family therapist. Okay. So do you have your own?

undergrad already done? Yes. So you have to finish your master so that you can get licensed and do your practicums. How long is that? Is that a two-year? Two-year. Yeah, it's usually a two-year program.

And it costs what? It's cost $34,000. And then I do have, I did a little bit of research kind of on it. So I'm a veteran and I have 100% disability. And then I looked into the, they have a vet center scholarship. program, which will pay for 100% of the tuition. I think they give you like a $1,300 a month. Staping expense.

Yeah. The only catch to it all is that I would have to, you know, basically at the wind of the VA for six years to go wherever they need me. Oh, no, I'm not doing that. No? No. Because the VA's going to pay you half a marketplace. A marriage and family therapist can make 100 to 100 and a half.

you're not going to make that the VA. You're going to make 60 with the VA. Okay. So it's not worth that. 34,000 out of pocket I'd rather do. So do you have any money saved? So I'm on babysat two right now. I got about, I would say, probably like 13,000 left to go,

like 1,800 on a credit card and 11,000 in my original student loans. Okay. So by marriage and family therapists, you mean you would be like opening a practice, charging people an hourly rate to sit down and help them, with their issues? That would be the end goal if I did that scholarship program. Oh, I would not do the scholarship program. I've already established that.

What are you doing now, Andrew? The six-year trade's not worth it. What are you doing now and what are you making? Right now I'm a utility locator for a construction company. I'm making about $35,000 to $45,000 a year. Okay. Okay. So if you, but the military has a program that you don't have to go.

to work for the military that's just part of your GI bill. And they'll pay you a stipend plus a bunch of your tuition with no requirement to go to work for the VA. So I've used my GI bill. You already have used it? Yeah, I've used the full 36 months. Oh, okay. Yeah. What was that used on?

That was for my undergrad. Your undergrad. Your undergrad. Okay, cool. So you've been pursuing this for a while. Okay. Yeah, it's kind of been a big thing for me since I got out of the military myself. And how much do you receive in disability income?

It's about 3,900 a month. So call that $4,000 a month, plus you make $30,000, right? Yes. Okay, so we're talking about an $80,000 income. Yeah, I would say about that. Okay. All right, and you sound like the words you're using your single. I have a girlfriend.

I am divorced, though. I don't have two incomes and all that. So you got a girlfriend. No. All right. I'm wondering, Andrew, if you can do some of this while you work full-time and do night classes. I've had, I've known one or two people that have done that. And seeing if you can work your way through, it may take you a little bit longer.

But to keep the income going, so you could somewhat cash flow it. It may not be next year, because we'd want you out of debt with an emergency fund before you jumped into all this. but that's what kind of was my thought originally because I haven't listened to you guys for a while and I know not to dig out more loans or anything like that for sure okay but if I want to do this I got a cash flow I'm I kind of around the numbers roughly and it's like okay I don't really make enough right now to do that essentially um so I have to you know okay let's let me back up two steps number one the answer to your question is yes you need to go do this then the quote the only question remaining after we make that statement is how do we do that in the wisest possible way? I would rule out

giving up six years of my income being in half and trade that for 34,000 plus living expenses. No, thank you. I don't think that's a good trade. So I'm going to rule that one out if I'm you. So that means I have a $34,000 barrier and I make $80,000. If I can find a way to run an adult program, an adult master's program, and they're out there, I don't know what's available in the Philly area, but they're out there. If you could even an online thing and knock out half of your two, one of your two years, and, you know, during that time, finish up being debt free, have your emergency fund, then start saving towards the $34,000, and cash flow while working and making $80, that sounds ideal to me. Then the second part, the third possibility is some big move,

because your $3,900 goes with you wherever you are. So the bulk of your income is going to follow you no matter what, because that's the disability income. So if you could go make 30 working weekends building decks and move to a city where you could have an inexpensive master's program and finish this thing up for 34K in two years, that's 17 a year, you could do that. Okay. What's the nature of your disability? It's mostly mental health stuff, and then I have my knee who got all jacked up in the military. Okay, so maybe building decks is a bad example, okay, with a jacked up knee, right? But, I mean, that's why I asked.

But anyway, I don't care what you do. I mean, even if you're working the psych ward as an orderly or something to get some practical proximity to what you're going to be doing, but you're making 30 in there and you're working, you know, three-twelves or something like that, and then you've got the rest of the time off to go to school. So, I mean, just build your life out to where you go do this. I think you do need to go do it. That's the answer to your question. I just want you to do it in a way that three years from now,

you're sitting in a private practice, and you're going to make your first 100, and then you're going to move towards 150 because a high-quality, private practitioner ought to be making 100 to 100 and a half. Yeah. I feel like it takes a while to get established. Yeah, yeah. When you go to the private practice route, I felt like the – But that's the most lucrative route, and it's the route by which you control what clientele you serve the most.

If you're working for an institution of some kind, like, say, the VA, they're going to have – they're going to control who your client. is. You're not. And that may take a lot of the fun out of this idea, the reward out of this, the psychological reward of this idea. Yeah, you being able to do what you want to do and see who you want to see is. Yeah, I'm like working with people that I don't want to be working with a group or whatever. And for six years, it's a long time. That's not, you don't want to sign up for that one. No, no, no, please don't do that one. But the, but I do think you're, you've thought this most of the way through. We've just got to get you. you there debt-free, cash flow in it, and finish up your baby step two and get you there

without selling your soul to the company store. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help.

It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com. Investing can be really confusing. Three years ago, for the first time, we did an unusual investing virtual event called investing essentials. And it was me and George Camel and I basically used, I opened up my personal playbook. How do I do real estate investing? And I showed exactly how the returns work, but the details that nerded out, right? And how do I do mutual fund investing? And I nerded out.

And how do I view wealth spiritually and nerded out? And all these different things. And we went through my playbook. And then George and I also talked about buckets of investing that we don't do and why. So we went into the details of what's broken about some of these theories that are floating around out there. And we're going to do it again. This is only the third time we've ever done this. And we're going to add a little bit of new material to it, reducing taxes, navigating wills, and building legacy. I'm going to add some stuff in on those things.

Tickets start at $1.99. It's two nights at September 1st and 2nd. Investing Essentials virtual event, George Camel, Dave Ramsey, me doing my playbook with George, my personal stuff. You want to know how Dave Ramsey does real estate? That's what I'm on day. That's simple. All right.

Get yours today at ramsysolutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes and we'll get you set up. Elizabeth is in Huntsville. Hi, Elizabeth. How are you? Hi, Dave and Rachel. How are you guys? Better than we deserve.

What's up? My husband and I are a young married couple. we've always planned for me to be a stay-at-home mom when we have children. Since I won't have my own income for those years during raising our children, how will we make sure to invest adequately for our retirement? Well, Elizabeth, I mean, funding 15% of your income into retirement is our baby's step four, and that's after you're out of debt with a fully funded emergency funds. And if you start young, you guys should be okay.

How much are you guys making right now? My husband makes $105,000 a year pre-tax, and I'm making $20,000 a year pre-tax. Okay. Well, just for fun. How old are you? I'm 20. You're 20, okay. I am.

And do you guys have anything in savings right now? Yes, we have $15,000 in savings, which is four months of emergency fund for us. Okay. Anything invested? we have invested about $30,000 in a Roth IRA on my husband's job and he's getting he's giving 10% per paycheck okay well just yeah I mean if you if you guys from 20 right now to let's say 59 which is retirement age and you contributed $1,100 a month which will get you to about that 15% and that's if your income never went up Elizabeth okay just on his like if you

He never got another raise. And you guys just did that. You'd have $10.6 million at retirement just from that 15%. Wow. So I think you guys will be great. You're going to have to stay out of debt and keep your emergency fund in place and stay on a budget so that you put $15,000 out of $100,000 away every year, okay? Which is more like $1,200 a month, but $1,100 is what Rachel ran the number on and that's fine. So sorry.

I'm in my $100. No, that's okay. That's okay. But I mean, that's, go, you can go to ramsysolutions.com and look at the retirement calculator, and that's what Rachel was using. So I just did. That's how she ran those numbers. We are currently out of debt.

We have our house mortgage, but that is all of our debts currently. So you continue to work to pay out, get the house paid off early while putting 15% away, while paying cash for everything else you do. And if you do that and he never gets a raise, you're going to have millions and millions of dollars. That's the point. and of course if you work for 35 years and you never get a raise by definition you're a loser because and your husband's not a loser so the chance you work 35 years and never get a raise is zero right he'll be doubling his income I mean you know you guys will look up in your 30s and yeah

you guys will be great they'll be great and that he's probably the lowest round of his career field yeah totally yes yeah you guys will be completely fine Elizabeth you're going to get if you do it yeah my point is is that the calculation is conservative Okay, so you're going to be fine, but you have to do the budget and live on what you make. If you run up a bunch of stinking car payments and go on cruises you can't afford and buy couches you can't afford and spend $40,000 redoing the nursery on a credit card because you had a baby and like run around being a normal American and then whine because you're broke, then you're not going to have any of that money because you're not going to have the money to put money outside. for retirement. But you're not going to do any of that. No. We have three old cars that we love and don't put on running your car. You can even upgrade your cars. Just pay cash for them. That's the whole thing. There we go.

Well done, Elizabeth. And the beauty, honestly for you guys, starting at 20. Those calculations look different if you're in your 40s and 50s. Wow, that's pretty amazing. All right, Crystal is in Boston. Hi, Crystal. How are you? Hi, Dave and Rachel. I'm great. How are you? Better than we deserve. How can we help?

Yeah, so I am single. I have enough saved up for a home, but I'm wondering if I should wait and see if I need a partner and get married before buying a home. No. No. You're not incomplete. You're awesome. You're awesome. You're not incomplete.

Well, thank you. No, buy a house. Now, the thing we would all put immediately after the comma, right, after the exclamation point, would be you may change houses after you have someone come into your life. Okay? Right. And that's what I'm concerned about. That's okay. Sell it.

It's a house. That's okay. If you buy a house and you get married and you decide we don't want to live in that area, sell the house. Are you dating anyone right now, Crystal? No, I just recently signed up for a dating matchmaker, and I'm starting to. That's great. Well, I was going to say, I mean, if you had a serious relationship and you guys were talking about marriage and all of that, I probably would pause and just make sure it's the city you want to be in with this person. You know, if they're in the picture.

But if they're not in the picture, no, I would keep running your race girl. You're doing an amazing job. Yeah, way to go. Yes. Excellent. There's more. Yeah, there's studies coming out showing that there's more women homeowners than more. in right now. So you will be part of a wonderful pool. In their 20s, yeah. That's exactly right.

And it's going to make you pickier on who you date, too. You're not going to want to date somebody that's going to mess this plan up because you're working a good plan. Now, you know, and... Yeah, I'm in my 40s. I'm divorced. I'm no kids. Okay. So I'm always joke with the guys and say, but be ready to know that after you buy this house, once you find her, she's going to tell you it was the wrong house. But that might not be the case with you. you might find somebody that just loves this house, you know. I mean, usually have good taste in houses. I would say that, I think.

Yeah, I'm just saying. No, Crystal, yep. Keep moving forward to your financial plan. Do not wait on some guy to come along to make it okay. No, no, no, no, no, no. You go be you, girl. And then the guy will show up when he's supposed to in this equation. Yeah, and to your point, Crystal, she threw out like, yeah, but if it's not within two years, you know, all this, listen, if the right person shows up, marriage and a life with someone,

and he comes in 12 months and you guys choose to move cities, that's okay. Take the hit on the house. You're going to be fine financially, right? I mean, like, don't let that be the thing that scares you into not doing it with what may happen. Because if that even happens, that's a great life. Yeah. And to your point earlier, if someone else is listening and you're in a relationship that's getting progressively serious and that two-year thing is real, then maybe you do.

pause then. Yes, absolutely. She's asking with no one on the hook. No fish on the line right now. And so, yeah, let her be. You're amazing, Crystal. Way to go. Well done. Congratulations. Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here. And I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories. But you know what else there's more of? Spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the Every Dollar budget app, because it helps you plan your money, track your spending, and find more margin in your budget so that you can put extra cash towards the goals that matter most. Enjoy your summer without the money stress. Download the Every Dollar app in the App Store

or Google Play and start for free today. If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is every dollar, our budgeting app that helps you work the Ramsey plan. It holds your hand and answers the questions, the same as you'd hear on here on the air, and we're going to walk you right through the baby steps, the fastest way to get out of debt and into wealth.

You track your progress, you get personalized recommendations, you get coaching for your situation. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the app store and Google Play. Brandon is in, whoa, what in the world? What did I do?

Did I do that? Let me try again. Brandon, are you with me? I'm with you, Dave. Cool. How can we help? So a little bit of a quick backstory. I grew up in a divorced household.

I had a relationship with my father at a young age. wasn't a good one. In my adult age, I decided to not have a relationship with him, especially after I started to have children, due to the way that he lived his life. He lives his life for money, but in a bad way. He is okay with doing things the wrong way, maybe messing some people over in order to get there,

alongside just women and just a whole plethora of issues. I got it. So you had to draw a boundary, and now where are we? Sure. All right. So now I have been told that, and I want to clarify, I do not want this money at all, but I have been told that he is putting his will for my two young children, one who's younger than one and one that is seven to receive all his inheritance.

Cool. How much is it? I don't know because I don't trust anything he says. Well, what do you think it is? He says that it will be millions. What do you think it is? One or two, maybe. Okay.

All right. So it's a lot of money. All right. Good. Yes, I would imagine that it is a lot of money. regardless. Okay. My concern is a young child who has never met their grandfather, getting a large sum of money

from them. How can I help guide them and who knows what age they will be when this happens? Right. How old is your dad? He's only 55 now, I believe. So their kids will probably be grown. Correct. Likely good.

Unless he's in poor health now, they'll probably be adults before they get this money. Right. Okay. Right. And a lot can happen between now and then, too. Right, right. I guess my question mainly is,

is how do I mention to, I mean, obviously not now, they're way too young, but at what point would I bring this up to them and have this conversation with him, and what would that conversation look like? Well, the problem is that there's a high probability. This guy's a high roller, and he might have nothing. Right. He could lose everything.

And so we don't want to over, that's an actual possibility, okay? So I don't want to overplay this. I certainly would not do it before teenage years, and I would not do it, and I would gauge it based on if we have any rumors about his health. In other words, let's say you heard that he's gotten a stage four cancer diagnosis, then, yeah, we're going to have a different discussion than if we've heard that he's doing great, right? Right. Because it's more imminent, and we don't know what it is. I will tell you this, wealth does not ruin children. It exposes the fact that your children were already ruined.

So you raise men of character, young boys into men of character. You said they're boys, right? Right, correct. Yeah, you raise them into be men of character, men who know how to work, men who are generous, men who are honest, men who work a system and a plan, and then if they receive this money, it won't harm them. It will just accelerate them. Right.

But if they receive the message that they don't have to work and they're going to sit around and be a trust fund baby because someday when their grandpa dies, they're going to be rich, and they consequently become worthless, then the money has harmed them. But the money didn't actually harm them. It just exposed the fact that you didn't teach them how to work. Right.

Okay. So you go build the men out of these boys that you were going to do anyway, and the further they are into that manhood, the more ready they are to receive and handle the wealth. Right. Okay. And when those conversations happen, if they are recent, right, if you do hear of a health scare, you know, and they're in their early 20s, be honest with them. You're like, hey, he's not doing good.

And he said he's going to leave you some money. I have no idea what that means. Yeah. But we'll walk through it together. and kind of figure out what's a good plan. Here's what a wise young man does if he receives a million dollars. But also, Brandon, the character of your dad, honestly, some people, they don't last in wealth. So he may have that now today.

And he may lose it. Yeah, who knows. Right. Right. I guess partial of my concern was, you know, once upon a time it was going to supposedly be left to me. and I said, me and my wife had spoke and said that we didn't want the money that we would just donate it. And that was just a personal thing to us because where it came from. I know that I'm sorry.

If the money. I know because it was dirty money. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Should I allow that to play into my children or just allow them to have the money? No.

I appreciate you all not wanting that because you've got a lot of them. motion tied up in this relationship with your dad. But money is not dirty. Bricks are not dirty. You can take a brick and throw it through a window and be a vandal, or you can take a brick and build a hospital for children. The brick doesn't care. And who made the brick? A cocaine addict made the brick or a person of high moral character made the brick. It's still just a stinking brick. And, you know, So the money itself is technically not dirty. But everything wrapped in it and the story of it feels gross to you, which is understandable. You would feel icky every time you looked around it.

But for your boys just to get a million bucks and to be able to do something with that and go change the family tree for your grandkids, in a healthy way because they're good young men. They have a spiritual walk. They're quality people that serve and love the community. they love their family, they do conflict well. You know, you've grown some men, right? You do that. This just becomes a blessing.

And in the weirdest sort of way from the weirdest possible source, but it does become a blessing. And so. Yeah, they don't have the strings attached to it like you do. Yeah. So, folks, I'll pan back from Brandon a little bit. He was not asking this, but there's around this is the idea. And I get this when I'm working with wealthy people a lot. how, you know, I've worked on my life to build some wealth. How do I not let it ruin my children?

We get that question all the time, don't we? And especially in a panel discussion somewhere where we're doing some generosity thing with multimillionaires. How do I not let this ruin my children? And our answer always is, money does not ruin your children. It just exposed the fact that you did. So raise good kids. Raise children in such a way that they become excellent adults. And the money is not going to do. The money exposes who you are. It exposes who they are. That's all it does.

Money magnifies the good parts of your life and character and the bad parts of your life and character and that of your children. Yeah. And the warnings, like even when you look through scripture, lots of warnings around wealth that you can't ignore, but that can ruin you, the person that made the money and or your children too, right? So there's the natural warnings of it. You did not do something to your kids.

It's not a... ...spircially wrong by becoming wealthy, and you did not do something spiritually wrong by leaving it in your family. As a matter of fact, there's lots of biblical indicators that that's what you should do. David didn't build the temple. Solomon did with David's money. You should not feel uncertain about investing, and you don't have to. That's why we created investing essentials, a two-night virtual event where George Kampi, Amo and I walk you through my playbook for investing and wealth planning.

We'll simplify everything from 401Ks and mutual funds to passing on wealth so you can invest with confidence. Tickets start at $199. Get yours today at ramsysolutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes. Our scripture today, 2nd Corinthians 418, so we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. Milton Friedman said nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. Okay, Ashland is in Knoxville.

Hey, Ashland, what's up? I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can we help? So my question is, should I focus entirely on paying off my debt first? or try to increase my income first and how to do so. What are you doing now for work?

So right now I am an hourly and commission-based hairstylist in Alcoa, Tennessee. I probably make about 900 a month, and I know my debt is a little bit higher than that. Not bad, but definitely higher than I would like it to be. How many hours are you working? With my company, I'm not allowed to go over 40, so it's usually anywhere from 30. to 38 hours a week. And you're making 900 a month? Yes.

You're not getting paid well. No, no, I'm not. But it's the only salon that contacted me and actually was able to hire me in the time period that I needed. Okay, well, I would be looking for... Work that paid. Yep. You're living on $10,000 a year.

Like you can make more to an Uber. You could make more working half the time you work at Target. Yeah, I've been looking for other salons, but unfortunately, living in Knoxville, it's so competitive. No, it's not. There are not salons paying people $900 a month. No one stays in that situation. That's $10,000 a year. You can't exist on that.

Okay. I'm telling you, they don't have people standing around working 40 hours for $900. Now, if you're working 10 hours for $900, maybe. But you're not standing around there the whole time, 40 hours. a week making 900 bucks nobody's doing that in knoxville knoxville's not that not that depressed and neither's alcoa tennessee or marrival tennessee it's one of the franchise locations of a smart style so it's similar to great clips yeah so get out of there yeah i would go go find a nice salon there's yeah they're there for sure in knoxville even if you're working as a you know front desk and you're

booking appointments for the first little bit just get your foot in the door if that's what you want to do more long term. You're not making enough to exist. You need a job. Today. Okay. Today. Are you living at home, Ashland?

Are you at home? I am. I'm living with my parents. So no rent. No. Okay. I do pay for groceries for our family a lot. How much debt do you have?

My debt is currently at $1,104. Okay. Most of that is from my credit card, another is from gym collection. that's making me pay it. And how old are you? I can pay it off. I'm 21. Okay, good.

All right. So what you need to do is to set a goal and say at Target, right there in Marival, they'll pay you $20 an hour. Okay? Okay. Just working and there's a clerk, all right? And so hair is obviously your, you know, hairstylist is obviously your goal, right? Right. So now if I know I can make $20 an hour at Target, then I need to find a place where I can do my craft and make in excess of $20 an hour and start pursuing both. And so you can work weekends and nights at Target or whatever. I don't care. Making someplace making $20, okay? Up in West Knoxville somewhere, right at a retail establishment. There's people around there paying that right now in Knoxville, Tennessee today. Okay.

Okay. And then also, if you can work 20 hours a week on your hairstylist and get started, get a chair somewhere to start to build your clientele, it takes a while to do that, if that's what you're doing. But the problem is they're paying you nothing and your own commission and the only money you're making are walk-ins that aren't your clients. Mm-hmm. Because the type of organization you're in, it's just a, it's just a,

it's a retail walk-in. It's not, you know, a few people in there have clients that are repeats, but most of them are just walking and whoever's cutting, whatever chair is open, they jump in the chair. Yeah. The other stylist that works with me is making a lot more than that. She's the only other stylist there, so I definitely need to be trying to find a salon. It's just been difficult recently because every time that I apply somewhere,

I either don't hear back at all after going in person, calling, applying online, bringing in a physical application, or they answer and they say they're not looking for anybody at that moment. Okay. So I've just been trying to find any other jobs in the area that will work either around my schedule or that the salon will work around the schedule for. Yeah, but honestly, if you lost the job you got right now, you didn't lose much. You work 10, 15, 20 hours a week and being more than that someplace else.

And while you figure out this salon thing and get your foot in the door somewhere, I don't know who that is or where that is. But I'm going to send you a book called The Proximity Principle written by Ken Coleman that talks about what Rachel is saying, get your foot in the door, even if you're just the receptionist and you get in book and appointments, then you get started and you get in the organization, you get around people that are doing what you want to do. And that's where jobs come from. It's not just from applications and follow up.

Okay. So this is harder than they told you at the school where you went to learn to be a hairstylist and you paid them. They told you this was going to be easy and they lied. This is not easy. Tony is in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, Tony. How are you? I'm good, Dave.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Matt, I hear you say that all the time. But I can't believe I told you y'all. Like, I was in the Army for 19 years, and I'm 100% disabled now. And I've got a lot of debt, and I really don't know where to start. I did just land a job.

I was out of the Army for like a year with a dead-end jobs between here and there, making, you know, $10 an hour and whatnot. but I got a job at Mars. We make all the combos that go out in the world, and I actually got a lead position out there, and I'm going to be making around $95,000 a year. Wow, good for you. I appreciate that.

With that being said, I thought it was a good time. Obviously, me and my wife, we're not going to pull our credit reports when we don't have money to put anything towards our debts. So, of course, when I accepted a job, we went on, we pulled our credit reports, and we you know i mean excel spreadsheet on how much debt we have and in kind of like a payment plan the only thing that sucks about this job is that it's an hour and a half away and we don't

have the upfront money to relocate at the time um but my main question is i hear y'all talk about a lot of resources uh every dollar in this book and that book and really i don't own a house you know i got a car note good i got yeah and i got you know i got you know and i got I mean debts. How much debt have you got? How much debt have you got? It's around 55,000. On what? Well, my truck, I still owe $21,000 on it. We have a camper I bought a couple years ago that I owe 11 on you, and then the rest is like credit cards. Okay. Well, I personally would sell the camper, might sell the truck, and as soon as you can scrape the money together to move and get out of that lease and move up closer to work, I would. That's going to save you a bunch of money. And then I would get on the every dollar budget and start working these baby steps. Lest your debts smallest to

largest and attack them in that order. We'll give you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, and give you the premium version of every dollar and get you started, okay? Yeah, Tony, instead of that Excel sheet, do the every dollar budget, plug in those numbers that you found out. And you'll start to see pretty quickly, okay, here's what's going out to everything. And then the motivation starts of if we sell the truck, how much does that free up per payment, right, per month? Sell the camper. Sell the camper. What are we paying on that every month? That freeze it up. You start selling some stuff and get this moving. And with your income, you guys are going to do fantastic. And you got the disability coming in for the military.

Thank you for your service. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ, Jesus.