The Ramsey Show - Stop Letting Your Financial Past Ruin Your Financial Future

Episode Date: August 30, 2024

📱Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. George Kamel & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: What to do after a large inheritance changes your life, Working in an industry that promotes debt, "I'm tired of funding my adult kids' lives", "Making money doesn't change who you are", What to do when the financial aid doesn't come through Support Our Sponsors: Zander Insurance: Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282 for a fast and easy quote today Churchill Mortgage: Get started at ChurchillMortgage.com Health Trust Financial: Discover Top Health Insurance Plans, All in One Place. BetterHelp: betterhelp.com/Delony to get 10% off your first month   Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 🚢 The Live Like No One Else Cruise is booking fast!  🏆 Set and actually reach your goals with the NEW 2025 Ramsey Goal Planner! Hurry—They sell out every year! 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 💸Enter The Ramsey Cash Giveaway for a chance to win $10,000! 📚 Shop the $12 Sale to get life-changing tools to help you make real progress!  Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

From Ramsey Network, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by bestselling author Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Don't be shy. Give us a buzz. And if you're kind and you've got a great question, Christian will let you through, and we'll try to give you the best advice we can.

Or if you're not kind, that's fine. Well, I think if you're a jerk, I don't think that's going to help your chances. It might. Does that work for you? No, it doesn't, but it makes good radio, I guess. Just be kind is a good life principle to live by. And would you know it, John in Fort Worth, Texas is kicking us off. This guy is from Fort Worth.

He's from the 817. He's from the right side of DFW. He's going to be kind. What's up, John? Salt of the earth. What's going on? I'll try to be kind. What's up, John? Salt of the earth. What's going on? I try to be kind. How are you guys doing?

Excellent. I understand that when an Oklahoman comes into town, it makes it really tough, but you're trying. I appreciate you. It's a whole different story then. What's up? Okay, I'm 57 years old. I've got $51,000 in debt.

I've been served on three of the accounts and just don't know where to go. I'm considering Chapter 7, but I don't know if I have any better options or not. Well, the better option is not filing bankruptcy, for sure, because it's going to implode your financial life. What kind of debt is the 51? I've got four credit cards and one unsecured loan. What happened? Oh, gosh. Back in the COVID years, I lost my job. I had a hard time finding one after that. And that occurred a lot of it.

John, what do you do? Because I've got i've lived in texas most of my life and most of my friend community still lives there my understanding it's been a hiring bonanza the last 36 48 months what do you what do you do for a living that you struggle to find work i'm in purchasing and customer service. Okay. What are you making right now? Well, right now I'm unemployed again. I got laid off about three months ago. Okay. My division that I was working for moved to Atlanta. And did they go without you or they want you to move and you didn't want to make that jump? Well, I mean, that wasn't even an option i wasn't gonna move to atlanta okay but uh and i mean i've put in i've been on indeed and linkedin i've put in various applications and just got not getting any feedback other than thanks but no thanks

but what do you what are you doing in the meantime right now i'm doing nothing Have you been in contact with the companies? I'm guessing not the credit card companies anymore, because that's long gone. Now it's with the collectors? I haven't contacted them at all, no. Okay, have they been contacting you? Because they've been serving you. The one up in my credit card, they've all been closed. They haven't particularly contacted since then, other than I've been served on three of them.

And is it the credit card company suing you personally or is it collections coming after you? Uh, this would be the credit card companies, I guess. Okay. I would contact them and let them know what's going on. I want you to be proactive about this. I know it's kind of easier to be just ostrich head in the sand and be in la-la land, but I would let them know, hey, listen, I got laid off three months ago. I want to pay you back. When I'm working, can we set up a payment plan? Can we negotiate this instead of filing bankruptcy?

Okay. Because you file bankruptcy, they get nothing. But if you work your butt off, you can clean this up, avoid bankruptcy, and give them something and clean up this debt. And that's what I want to lean on, man, only because I love you. And I'm just trying to think of myself in your situation. What have you done for the last three years or four years? Well, I mean, I was working at that time.

Let me ask you this. At what point will you say, okay, I've done purchasing for a long time. I'm trying these avenues. It keeps being things, but no things. I got to go to Walmart and get a job. I got to go get three jobs because I've got literally zero dollars

and I'm getting sued by multiple people for money that I've already spent that they loaned me like there's there's a sense of this is all happening to me and I'm trying to re-establish your sense of agency you've got a lot more control in this deal and it's not going to look like you did what were you making before as a purchasing guy. My last one was about $55,000. You could go find two full-time jobs that you work in a single day to make more than $55,000. Just sitting there for three months. You can go move

boxes at Walmart and make some good money. If you make that choice, you have to swallow your pride and you have to go get to work. But I mean, you're literally not doing anything. You have no income coming in, do you? Just the unemployment.

Yeah, I mean, I want more for you than that. Are you living alone? Sure. No, I'm married. Okay. And what's your wife do? She's a retired teacher. Does she have income from that? Does TRS? She does, and she's also subbing us as well.

Okay. Because if she can work more and you work twice as hard as she does, we can climb out of this thing and actually retire with some dignity. But I feel like right now you've lost your fight because you got knocked down a few times. Right. Which is understandable, but, man man, you still got a lot of life ahead of you. And I don't want you to spend it cleaning up after bankruptcy, because guess what? They don't want to drag you through court. They don't want to pay all this

money either. And so I would be in contact with them saying, listen, we're going to work our butts off to get you guys some money and get rid of this debt. Will you settle for X, Y, Z? Chances are if the debt's old, they're going to settle for cents on the dollar. So you say, hey, listen, I got 10 grand. Can we call this debt good? Paid in full. Don't give them access to your checking account. And we move on with our life. Because bankruptcy is not going to solve all your problems. You're going to be right back to where you were because zero habits changed. And John and George, I missed the number. How much is in collections here? $51,000. Is that right? $51,000. That's correct. And are you continually going into debt right now?

No. Okay. So are you paying all your bills? Do you have any other debt that's not in collections? I have like a second mortgage that I did, which is up to date, and a car payment. What's left on those total? About $10,000 on the mortgage and I think about $3,000 on the car. Okay. Have you talked to your wife about this? A little bit, not a lot. Is she concerned? Is she just like, you do you, John? What's her attitude? She's pretty concerned. I think she lost her husband. Right.

This isn't the Fort Worth, Texas guy she married. Mm-hmm. Can I ask you, where are you? I'm pretty low. Yeah. Tell me about it. Well, I just feel defeated. Yeah.

The rug's been pulled out, and there's no, you know, safety net or whatever, you know? Yeah. Will you get up today and go have work by Saturday morning? I would love to. Okay.

I guarantee you there are places hiring, and they are not going to be traditionally sexy places. And you're not going to be able to tell your friends and community that you're a purchasing guy. You're going to have to tell them, hey, I'm an assistant manager over at Culver's, or I'm throwing boxes from 5 p.m. to 11 p.m., and they may raise their eyebrow at you,

and they may smile real big and say, that's what a husband does when the rug gets pulled out from under him. He gets knocked down and he gets back up and he goes and knocks on the door. And it's not your forever jobs. These are your right now jobs. And you're going to get your swagger back

and your dignity back. And then when you go into one of these interviews, someone's going to say, you're my guy. Let's go knock on the door and get a job by tomorrow. You can do it. Let's go knock on the door and get a job by tomorrow. You can do it. We believe in you. Are you working the baby steps? One of the smartest and most impactful changes you can make

is to ditch your cash value life insurance plan, if you have one, and replace it with a term life policy. Listen, the only thing a cash value policy is good for is overcharging you for the life insurance and then paying you a crappy rate of return on your overpayment. Stop wasting your money and really focus on getting out of debt and growing your savings. For over 25 years, I've trusted and used Zander Insurance to find the best rates on term life insurance from the top-rated companies. They keep the whole thing simple. You can apply online or over the phone,

and they even have low-cost plans that don't require an exam. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Even if you don't have a cash value policy, if you're one of the 70% of people who have no life insurance or not enough, it's even more important to get this done. 800-356-4282 or zander.com. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You call up, we'll try to help you take the right next step for your life,

your money, and your relationships. Well, John, get this. You know this stat. Nearly half of the U.S. population reports their lives are affected by anxiety, stress, or burnout. Anxiety is everywhere. And you know anxiety is not the actual problem. Occasionally it is, but almost always it's not. Something below that. Right, right, right.

We're unsafe. We don't have the people in our lives. We're unhealthy. There's just so much going on. We've created a chaotic world, and we get mad at our bodies for responding chaotically, right? Yeah. And it's one of the reasons you wrote your bestselling book, Building a Non-Anxious Life. And right now, during this campaign, we've got 12 bucks, which is incredible. You walk through the six daily choices. Dave always sells our stuff. I feel like with inflation, it should be more, but you know, Dave does what Dave

does. So you can get that right now for $12 on the Ramsey Solutions store. You can get Questions for Humans, which will improve your relationships with 55 conversation starters that will leave you laughing, spark meaningful conversations, and so much more. And John's other bestselling book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, also $12. So get these bestsellers and so much more on sale right now. But it ends August 31st, which, if you're doing the math, is like right now, there's just hours left. So go check it out. RamseySolutions.com slash sale. All right, let's get to Rachel in Myrtle Beach who awaits. What's going on, Rachel? Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure. My husband, well, I guess it came through my side, but we recently received an inheritance of about $7 million.

Whoa! Before that. $7 million? Have you gotten used to just saying that sentence? No. Okay, you said it so casually. Yeah, we got our inheritance seven million who passed away um my father i'm so sorry what was his name oh um his name was dan man what a legacy

what yeah no kidding that's amazing yep so how long ago did you receive this inheritance? It's been about six months. Okay. So where is $7 million sitting? Is it just sitting in an escrow account somewhere? So we have it with a financial advisor, and it's getting slowly invested into different things. Okay. How. Um,

how can we help today? So, so the problem, well, you'd think it wouldn't be the money. And I know this isn't a typical, you know, problem for people, um, usually the opposite, but so before we received that inheritance, um, my husband and I worked really hard to save a million dollars ourselves. Um, I've been a stay, I've been a stay at home mom and my husband just worked really hard to save a million dollars ourselves. I've been a stay-at-home mom, and my husband just worked really hard. We paid off all our debts, our house, everything, without ever thinking we would ever acquire any inheritance. We had no idea that this even existed. But anyway, so whenever I found out I was going to get the inheritance,

I initially thought it was going to be maybe $3 million. And I came home and told my husband. And I was just crying because I was like, this is going to make him feel so much better because he's always so worried about money. And he's worried about if we're going to be okay in the future and just about retirement. He's so worried about it. And so I was so happy that this was is going to help him make him feel peace. But when we got it, it's actually been the opposite. And now he like is super scared about losing it.

Doesn't want to spend any of it. We're actually building a house right now. We were building it before we received or had any idea we're getting the inheritance and um but he's just like i i've kind of wanted to do some extra things now that i that we got the money and um he's kind of he's like he's scared you're gonna blow through the money and have nothing in retirement what did you say is he scared you guys are gonna blow through the money like you're gonna be frivolous with it? Yeah. Even though we've never been like that and we just aren't. Like I drive a super old minivan still.

Like he drives an old horse. Well, he's stuck in a scarcity mindset. It's just on loop. Right. This anxiousness has never been about the money. There's something about it. I don't. Go ahead. Go ahead, sir.

I was just going to say, I don't, it's, it's really affected our marriage. I mean, money has always been a big issue in our marriage. Um, just the fact that he wants to save, save, save. And I'm all about it. Like I've, I've supported him. I've done my best to be frugal with our kid. You know, he does, it's not like he's ever made a ton of money, but we were just worked really hard. and I don't know how I feel like he puts his value in his money and but I also feel very controlled by it like I feel like he doesn't almost like he doesn't love me because he not that he doesn't love me but kind of that he doesn't love me he loves his money more um more than he would like me to just enjoy things

sometimes like we're building a house and before we had this money we were going to do the basic you know like it was going to it's a lot of money but it was going to cost us five hundred thousand dollars we were going to pay for it in cash and we were just going to do the basic things like laminate floors and you know whatever but since i got the money i was like well i want to spend some things that i want like i want to get know, quartz countertops instead and like tile in the bathrooms instead of laminate, you know, things like that. So I kind of made myself a budget of like 50 or $60,000, just extra things that I would like, that I would enjoy in my home. And he takes that like, I'm like personally hurting him. And, um, and so he like doesn't want anything to do with the house.

He doesn't want to be a part of it anymore because it's like I'm hurting him. Do you know? I don't know if that makes sense. It totally does. But I need you to internalize what I'm about to say. This has nothing to do with the money. Okay. I don't know.

I know. For whatever reason, it could be that he grew up and money was scarce growing up. It could be that he saw people make fun of his old man for not making enough money. Who knows where these little nervous system GPS pins got put in place but at some place his nervous system says it's all coming down at any second and it's going to be your fault yeah and so this doesn't have anything to do with the money by the way you coming in the door with seven million dollars probably poured gasoline on that fire because you solved the the biggest crisis of his life which is do i have any worth and you and you said look

we're free and he goes oh god now i feel even smaller and often the only way to feel bigger is to puff your chest out and to take your ball and go home and not actually sit down and solve some of the problems so this isn't about money um you are well within your rights i mean i mean hear us me and george say um you're not crazy to spend 60 000 i think you're crazy to only spend 60 000 you have a check for seven million dollars that's like john getting a taco do you understand the scale here i mean imagine your dad how big his smile would be if he got to see you put in a pool and like whatever else you want to do. Right. So here's the bigger conversation.

The marriage that you had is over with a period at the end. Yeah. What you and your husband have to decide to do is are we going to build something new? Because our life, every bit of our life is different now. We are multi multi multi millionaires and now the game has changed and you have to own that new reality and then you have as a part of building something new you have to ask hard questions like what do you need and what do you want and what's going to bring peace to you and then you get to say the same things also

and just like y'all go through the fixtures and build this new house y'all got to do this with And what's going to bring peace to you. And then you get to say the same things also. And just like y'all go through the fixtures and build this new house, y'all got to do this with your marriage because it's all different now. Yeah. He spent his whole life building a sandcastle and you just wiped that all away with one big wave. And now there's a mansion there that he didn't build. And I think that scares the crap out of him. Yeah.

So I think John's right. And I think you also need to sit, he needs to sit down with a therapist, you guys both need to sit down with a financial advisor and actually crunch some reality numbers and go, listen, dude, if you put this in a savings account, you're going to make $350,000 a year by doing nothing. So this idea that you're just going to lose it all is hogwash.

You're not going to put this all in single stocks at the lottery. You're going to invest this wisely, like you guys already have been doing. Also, there's a math problem here, but his problem's not math. That's what he thinks it is. I know, but it's not, because that's not reality. He could put it in a high-yield savings account.

You can prove it to him by showing him the math. It doesn't matter. What he needs to know is, I see you, and I love love you and I want to build a new thing with you. Will you come with me? And hopefully he says yes. And y'all got to go, like George said, you got to go sit with a professional and y'all got to work through this. Congratulations. Your dad left an amazing legacy. Buying your first home is a big deal and sets the stage for your financial success. So work with a mortgage advisor you trust, not just some random website. Churchill Mortgage is Ramsey trusted because they help you avoid hidden traps

and expertly guide you through every step. Learn more at churchillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLS consumerAccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel. My co-host today is Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Our question of the day is brought to you by YRefi. If you're in default with private student loans, contact YRefi. Obviously, we don't encourage letting your loans get into default. We teach responsibility. But these amounts have some of you really struggling out there, and this is a path forward. YRefi was created for people in your situation. So go to

YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Scott in Michigan. Scott writes, I have been in the auto industry for almost six years. I started as a mechanic at a large dealership, moved up to service advisor, and recently was promoted to sales consultant. I bring in about $150,000 a year. After reading George Campbell's Breaking Free from Broke and the chapter about car loans, I felt guilty for being a part of this industry. Way to go, George. Sorry. You guilt peddler. I've always thought of myself as an honest salesperson, and I don't just sell people a car. I try to educate my customers into making the right decision, but yet I feel very convicted after reading this chapter. Thanks again, George.

I went to college for business management, but dropped out so that I wouldn't accumulate any more debt. And I've been gazelle intense so that me and my wife and kids, my wife and kids think I've gone crazy. I fear that if I pursue another career, I would not be able to earn what I currently make because the auto industry is the one I know. Is it hypocritical to continue to work in an industry that keeps people in debt while working my butt off to get myself out of debt? Hey, Dave, can I come work for you?

Honestly, we are hiring, Scott. So we have a lot of sales roles open at ramsaysolutions.com slash careers, but that's for another day. To your question truthfully here's my take john may have a completely different take i feel like we need scott in the car industry we need people with integrity who are leading people to the right decision who aren't scumburgers and it's easy to generalize an entire industry as this is a

gross industry but i think what scott's doing here is noble. It's moral. There's no issues with it. If you are in the lending department and it eats away at your soul, you need to get out of there. But as the salesperson, it's not your job to say, hey, here's the lending part. Here's the financing part. They're going to go to another guy to deal with the financing. You're there to say, hey, what is your budget? Here's a car that is in your budget. And then if they have questions along the way, you can steer them to go, hey, this one might be better for you guys. I want you guys to walk away from here debt-free.

There's nothing wrong with that as a salesperson. And yeah, you might not get as many commissions as going, you should get the car that's way too expensive because it has the sweet feature. I think we need people with integrity steering people toward that. So you think Scott can sit down with people and say, okay.

Until it eats away at his soul. What kind of money do you have? There's a soul tax to pay. I think a Corolla is a great option for you. Instead of saying, oh, they just walked in the door, let's get them in a Land Cruiser, even though we know they can't afford the payment, right? So they may be the voice of reason.

And people are adults when they buy cars, and they could always. It's not on you. So don't feel the personal responsibility of that person's decision to buy a car they can't afford and i want to address the the the bottom of this um when this is this is a heavy one this idea that for whatever reason and we live in a wild world now where because of Twitter and because of social media, we know how our bosses vote. We know who they vote for.

We know what they think about this issue and that issue. And we know where they stand on this and this. Not to mention, oh, I thought I was selling cars. I didn't realize that y'all only make money on finance. Right? We know so much more.

Millions of people look in the mirror and say, can I be a part of this particular business for X, Y, and Z reasons? Because I've got this set of values and somewhere along the way in this chain of value hierarchies, we don't align. The question often comes up, but I won't make this kind of money. A, I think that's a false sense of scarcity. If you've been able to work yourself up, but I won't make this kind of money. A, I think that's a false sense of scarcity. If you've been able to work yourself up, like clearly this guy is good at what he does. He's a person, a character. He works really hard because he's moved

from this position to this. He continues to get promotion. So let's let what has happened be the map forward. You'll find a new industry and you'll work really hard. You'll be a person of integrity. You'll make your way through. He's a problem solver. That's right.

That's the skill set. He's clearly a good leader or. You'll make your way through. He's a problem solver. That's right. That's the skill set. He's clearly a good leader or they wouldn't keep moving him up. That's number one. Number two, you always have to go back and ask yourself, what's your integrity worth? And that's a scary, hard question. That's a scary, hard question for a guy like me, right? Like what if it's in my core guts? I just thought at the end of the day, when I put my head on my pillow,

I think you can get rich from airline miles. And my boss, Dave is like, you can't get rich with airline miles. I'd have to ask myself, what's it worth, right? What's it worth? And so I think- There's incongruence every day. Right. And I just haven't been able to find a way to sleep at night

when there's incongruence in your life like that. And so I think all of us have to ask that hard question and then go ask, all right, what must be true, right? But your kids will feel that lack of congruency. Your spouse will feel that lack of congruency. Your body will feel that lack of congruency. So you might think you're just plugging along, making such and such paycheck,

but man, it will burn the rest of your life to the ground. It's tough, it's tough. So if you can be a change agent here, Scott, and stay in it and make peace with it and not eat away at your soul do it and keep helping people but if you can't like john's saying then you got to make the move out of here and i we both believe you have the skill set to move into any other industry and know that the other industry they probably also sell stuff that someone can finance so can i can i tell you that there's, there was a pivotal moment in my life from a, um, a friend and extraordinary mentor of mine.

His name is Dr. Richard Beck. He's a psychology professor. He's an experimental psychologist. He's a genius, literal. One day I was sitting with him and some things had happened to some students. Um, and I was really struggling with it. Whether the university's response was appropriate. I didn't sit well with me. So I went and sat with him and here's what he said. He said, John, like I get your, your tension here. I get the angst and I think you're right. Like as a, as a mentor, as a friend, you're, I want you to know you're free to go. Like you're right. And then he said, just know that if you leave those students will still be here and if everybody runs out the door just because quote unquote

because they can right and that particular interaction shifted so now i want to find places where maybe i can offer an alternative voice or maybe I can say well what let's think of it this way and where can we find where can we like I love it you said this Scott this may be the greatest place for you you may be the one salesperson that continues to say you know what I don't think you can afford the Camry but the Corolla is an amazing car let's go check it out and that you're the person constantly getting poked fun at by your fellow salespeople because your commission checks are smaller because you keep directing people to cars that they can actually afford you know what the new lot is not for you guys let's

go over here to the certified new lot because i think this is going to be a better option for you and your family long term what if you were that guy and you slowly painfully change the culture in that and people kept coming back to you because they trusted you. Well, that word of mouth alone, I'm going to go, hey, you need to go see this guy, Scott. Go see Scott. He's the good guy. He'll tell you the truth. It's so much easier to stand out in an industry filled with scum.

Yes. Because you're the one good guy. So if there's a place where your boss votes differently, okay. Or what if you stayed? What if you stayed? And what if you said, let's think about it this way. What if you became over time, a voice of reason, a voice of a new perspective, and you continue to show up and continue to show up. I think that's how the world changes.

If everybody heads for the exits, when it gets hard and scary and uncomfortable, nothing changes. In fact, everything gets more polarized and everything gets harder. And so ask yourself that question, Scott and everybody listening what if you stayed what if you stayed and you just began to slowly offer different ways to see the world i just i think that's how the world changes well and especially in this industry cars are amoral now if this was a product that is inherently gross if he's working for a payday or title pond i'd say all right get out of there that whole place is like dan the the cocaine dealer yes it's a car suddenly i can't it's a car right it has utility so uh this was the choose your own adventure scott we're not going to tell you to do one thing or the other but uh you need

to follow your conscience and your values and the fact that you wrote in maybe tells me it might be time for a different career shift who knows there you go or you come here uh work for ramsay and thanks for reading the book by by the way. I didn't know I was that convincing, John. That's amazing. Yeah. You've convinced me on some things. Really? Yeah. To do what? Name one.

Put him on the spot. I got Venmo. Oh, that's right. You convinced me to get Venmo. You've almost convinced me. I was in Pennsylvania two nights ago, and I reached out to you and said, hey, will you... Sean doesn't know how to do like Instacart or like food delivery. Ice cream as a surprise to my family. And I said, John,

I'm not your personal assistant. I'd be happy to do that for my hourly rate, which you can't afford. I can't afford. You can't afford that. I can't afford that. But I would do it as a friend. But you did convince me to get Venmo and I may get Instacart? Baby Stamps. I think I'm going to get Instacart. Let's take it one day at a time, John. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Welcome, 21st century. Here I come. This is the Ramsey Show. You've worked, saved, sacrificed, and been gazelle intense with your financial game plan. But do you have the right defense in place, like the right health insurance? Look, you can't walk past a doctor's office these days without getting a massive bill. And if you don't have health insurance, a major medical situation can undo all of your hard work. That's where my friends at Health Trust Financial can

help. They work for you, not the insurance company. So they find you the right health insurance and they save you money. Ramsey has recommended Health Trust Financial for two decades because they're the experts. And whether you're 19 years old or 90, you can trust them to do two very important things. Listen to you, then find you health insurance coverage with everything you need and nothing you don't. Health Trust Financial is your one-stop shop for unbiased advice about affordable health insurance options. They could save you hundreds of dollars a month, so make sure you're not overpaying. Go to healthtrustfinancial.com today. healthtrustfinancial.com. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell,

joined by Dr. John Deloney. The phone number to call is 888-825-5225. Selena's up next in Washington, D.C. How can we help, Selena? Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for having me on your show. Sure. So I have no knowledge of financial literacy at all, and I'm in a space where I am really trying to get my life together. So I am on baby step two, but I just have a general question about the amount of college debt I have and some concerns with that. So I understand that you guys say to start off with the lowest up, the lowest amount that you have first in debt and then to work your way up. My college loans are $93,000. And I know that after working for the government, after 10 years, these loans can be forgiven.

So I'm kind of confused on if that's something that I should be even paying a lot of attention to or if I should just say, okay, well, after 10 years, they're going to be forgiven anyway. I just don't know what to do with that. So Selena, number one, I would say that I'm proud of you. It is hard to turn and face the storm, and that's what you're doing. Amazing. Welcome to our gang or cult, whatever you want to call it, whatever the internet's call us. We're glad that you're here. It's amazing. Thank you. Can I ask you a wild question sure who was president 10 years ago who was president 10 years ago my brain doesn't work that way i don't know exactly so you know what the federal student loan relief policy was 10 years ago what was it yeah i don't know but i know this

i know i had a lot of extraordinary brilliant law students who did not go into um private uh large firm law because the government said it was going to pay off all their student loans in 10 years and i know that many of them went in to do public defender stuff. They went to help the least of these in our local communities and that relief never came because somebody else got into office and then somebody else got into office and somebody else writes a bill and then somebody else sends it to the Supreme court. All I have to say is if I look around,

I don't have a ton of trust that the government's going to do what they say they're going to do in 10 years. I do have a lot of trust in my ability to get up and say, okay, as for me and my house, here's what we're going to do next. And that's a sad state of reality, but that's just me choosing reality. Yeah, I agree. It feels nearly impossible for me to even think that $93,000 is something that I can pay off myself. Why? Who told Selena that? It's a lot of money. And then the interest that I see,

like two years ago, I was at around $87,000. And then I look again this year, it's at $93,000. But that's because you didn't have a clue about personal finance. And now you're getting a hold of this thing and you're going to pay extra. You're going to do the baby steps. We're going to get you out of debt in a few years. And the worst part of your story is, I hate to tell you this, it makes my heart hurt, but it's kind of awesome that me and my wife paid off $110,000. And me and George's friend, jade warshall her and her husband paid off like what 450 000 student loans so here's the deal you don't see that you can do it george and i are on the other side of the tunnel we know you can we can tell you we can show you the math we can show you the path but you got to believe in selena

because we do are you working right now? I am working, and I'm making the most I've ever made, but I just feel like I don't know where my money is going. There we go. That's a great problem to have. And guess what? Next year, you're probably going to make more money than you've ever made. And the year after that, you're going to make more money than you ever made. And so what are you making right now? I'm making $96,000. That's amazing. And what's your total debt load out of all your consumer debt? My total debt load is around $102,000. Okay.

What's the other $9,000 other than student loans? Well, I have two credit cards. One is $4,100. The other is $4,800. And then I have my phone, which is $800. I'm also paying a car that I didn't include in that debt. And that's $375 a month. Okay. So making 96, let's imagine that you get a little raise and you're making six figures sooner rather than later. And you have about $100,000 in debt.

How much do you think you could throw at the debt each year? If you got on a budget, you worked extra, you cut your expenses, you live like a broke college person, do you think you could throw $30,000, $35,000 a year at the debt? If I eat beans and rice, like you guys say. Yeah. There we go. Do you think you could manage to throw $3,000 a month at the debt if you really tried? $3,000?

I don't think so, right? Because the expenses I gave you were just the debt, like the thing that I have in debt, but I still have bills, I still have rent, and I pay everything by myself. I know that, but I'm saying if we got real creative with every single line item, on top of working extra, I think you could find it. Whatever the gap is, you can go find it. You're that resourceful. And if you do that, just based on napkin math, you're done with this thing in less than three years. And you get your life back.

How old are you? 30. So you'll be 33 years old and completely debt-free. Or you could be 40 while politicians still dangle the carrot, and you spend all this time waiting and hoping and waiting and hoping, and now we still have $100,000 left ahead of us at 40 years old. Right. I'm not taking the chances i think the variables are there's far less with selena than there are with all the outside factors and so selena here's what bonkers looks like jade warshall her husband did not have a bed they slept on an air mattress for years me and my wife sold our house and we moved into a dorm a college residence hall with a toddler because we said enough is enough is enough is enough and i ate in the dorm i mean in the in the

in the in the cafeteria at the university to save money wow here's what i'm saying when you decide enough is enough, and when you decide Selena's worth going to war for, beans and rice become a delicacy. It's not a sacrifice. It becomes a small price to pay for freedom. Right. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. But you have to flip that switch, or it will always look like $96,000, $96,000, $96,000. By the way, how much is this car you're driving around that you didn't include in your total debt? So the thing is I am helping my mom to pay this. This is her car and I just have it temporarily. So I don't really know how much the entire car is because at some point I'm planning on giving this back to her when she's ready. But you're driving it?

Yes, I'm driving it. Why are you paying for your mom's car? She was working from home. She got into some health issues, and all of her responsibilities were a lot, so we decided that I'd take the car just until she's back on her feet. Can she afford a car? Yeah. It doesn't a car? Yeah. It doesn't sound like she can.

But you're paying it. I'm paying it. She could afford it until she couldn't afford it. She's working from home. What kind of car is it? It's a 2019 Toyota RAV4. Okay. I want you to get what the payoff amount is on that car,

and I want you to ask yourself a hard question because it's a depreciating asset so it's worth less money every month over every year yet your payment is the same and i want you to ask yourself what if we just sold this car and when mom needs to come back online and start working not from home anymore then she can buy a three thousand dollars she can buy whatever she can afford with cash. And you're going to buy whatever you can afford with cash. And suddenly, boom, you got $300 a month back in your budget to go towards student loans. Yeah, you're right.

We talked about that too. Sell it, sell it, sell it. And Toyotas have a great resale value, so sell it. Be free from that one. Okay. Now, George, what kind of tools can we give her to help her out? I'm going to gift you my book, Breaking Free from Broke, and there's a specific chapter in there that I think is really going to help.

It's called Margin is Breathing Room. In there, I lay out every one of my best ideas for you to find some margin in that budget to get you to $3,000 a month or more. And you're already making $96. You've got some skills. I think if you put those to work while cutting expenses, you'll get this amazing thing called margin, and you will be in control of Selena's life, and you live right down the street from these politicians, Selena. You've seen what they're saying, but the truth is they don't care about Selena. Only Selena's going to care about

Selena, and so you've got to do what's right for you and your family, and I want you to have a different life than the generations that came before you. And that means we're not going to carry debt into our forties and fifties and sixties and hope on the government to fix our life. We're just going to fix it. Let's also hook her up with a year of every dollar. Ooh, I like that. Greatest budgeting app in the world. And Selena, it's going to teach you how to budget. It's going to help keep you accountable to it. Hang on the line and we'll get you hooked up. It'll show you all the nooks and crannies you can be saving when you go, oh my gosh, I never actually looked at all that at one

place. Yes. All my income, all my expenses, I can do better. I can find $3,600 a month, right? And suddenly it just is every, or it shines a light on just how bad things are and you got to get your butt in another gear. I like it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back before you know it. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed? Well, that's why we created the Ramsey Network app. Your single source for content that keeps you motivated. The Ramsey Network app is designed to keep you laser focused on

reaching your goals. Loaded with over 7,000 hours of Ramsey shows, this free app is the best place for uninterrupted content and no distractions. Plus, you can search specific questions to get more personalized content in seconds. So for the days you need some extra motivation, you'll have proven advice at your fingertips. It's time to get serious about your goals and shut out the distractions for good. Simply search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play. If you're listening on a podcast, just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app today. From Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey

Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by the one and only Dr. John Deloney, and we are here for you to help you take the right next step for your life, your money, your relationships, your mental health, and pretty much anything else. The number to call is 888-825-5225. Darlene kicks us off in Chicago. How can we help, Darlene? I'm wondering if I can role play with you guys so that I can tell my children to get their act together. Yes! Who gets to be the children? Well, my children are three girls, three boys, ages 23 to 40. Wow. Yeah. My husband and I today, we've sacrificed 44 years and we've put our time and energy into fostering, adopting, and we have a 37-year-old son, and mom's about burnout.

Mom's tired of doing the budget thing and saying, yeah, I can loan you money on this app, that app, and then the goals that I have for next year for retiring to our little escape is not going to happen because I'm trying to pay down bills and have everything free and clear so I can live on our budget. So you're still giving grown kids allowances essentially and you're sick of it? Pretty much. Okay Darlene. Their cell phones, their insurance. I super want to role play this because I think that'll be fun and instructive but I have to ask you this question. Yes. Let's not talk about them for a second okay I want to role play this because I think that'll be fun and instructive, but I have to ask you this question. Yes.

Let's not talk about them for a second, okay? I want to talk about you. Yes. Every time you give them money, every time you pay their cell phone bill, you, my new friend Darlene, get something. What are you getting? I'm getting anxiety. Nope. That's not true.

That's not true. You're getting, that's what your body is doing because of the choices you keep making. You're getting something positive for this, or you wouldn't keep digging a hole deeper and deeper that, that you keep falling into. What are you getting from this? Cause that's the root here.

Your kids are not the problem here. All they're doing is what has always worked for them. You're doing what has always worked for you in a weird sideways way. So what are you getting from this? I guess the satisfaction of trying to push

them into adulthood and being... Nope. Nope. Because you're not pushing them. You're just putting money into their slot machine. What are you getting from this? My guess is you're getting the feeling of being needed. You're getting the feeling of that little tiny neurochemical hit that is, I just helped them out that all of us parents love when we get to help out our kids that you're continually like, as much as you hate it,

you also love that your kids have to keep coming back to you because you don't ever, the thought of them ever going away and being independent completely and quote unquote, not needing their mom i can't i can't go there i hate paying their cell phone bill but the idea of them waking up and not needing me is really heavy is that could that be true that's pretty realistic but at the same time i feel like i've given them resources okay and education over years. And I feel like I need to just lie to them and say, no, I don't have any more money. You don't need to lie to them because then you become a person that you don't respect. Can I ask one more thing? Yes. How much guilt do

you have that they're 36 and they're still asking mom for money? A lot. Okay. And so a way to punt that guilt a little bit further down the field is just to give them another $130 for their cell phone and the next month punt it a little bit further. And so it's time for you to stare you down in the mirror, Darlene, because you're the epicenter here. Your kids are just doing what works. And we can blame them all day long, but they just – mom pays our cell phone bill.

Let's role play the part where you stop giving them money what are they going to do throw a fit you yeah use their own that's not going to feel good no but they're going to be angry at you right it's going to hurt the relationship well you know the last time i said nope i don't have money in there i'm overdrawn i don't have money to loan to you so that you can go. Yeah, but that's not true, Darlene. The integrous way, the stand tall way to do this is to send an email to all of your kids

and to say effective September 1 or October 1, mom is no longer paying cell phone bills, insurance, etc. Yes. I'm deleting all of these apps from my phone. You'll have 30 days or 45 days to get your own insurance, to get your own cell phone bill. And then you have to be prepared for the wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. It's not fair.

It's your fault. Blah, blah. And just know it's coming. Okay, cool. But that's the only way to do it. And by the way, I don i don't know cruel is the right word it would be not cool if you just said hey tomorrow i'm not doing like that's kind of leaving people out to out into the wind because you brought them along and suddenly you just

are like i'm taking your coats and i'm going inside even though it's freezing outside so but giving them a date and saying effective this date i'm deleting all these apps from my phone y'all are adults y'all are on your own. Not that I don't have any money, because that's not true. The truth is, I love y'all enough to let you go. I love y'all enough to let you go.

That's it. We're not a bank. No more cash app. No more Apple Pay. No more Zelle. You have to delete those from your phone. Especially temporarily because you don't have the self-control to

listen to your kids cry and whine and not go in and rescue them. And that doesn't make you a bad person. That just means you are now enabling instead of helping. Do any of them live at home with you? No, thank God. We had a house fire in 22 and we helped the youngest to

flee the coop. Her own house paid off and she's still burying herself because she won't pull herself up by her. And I think the hardest part for you is to go, that's her choice she's making and I can't continue to rescue her. And Darlene, you've been clipping her bootstraps every time she reaches on to pull them up. Pretty much. Yeah. And so I think the actual challenge over the next six months is not the whining adult children. It's going to be you feeling like my kids don't need me anymore, which means I don't believe I have any value anymore, which is not true. It's a lie. But you're going to have to deal with those feelings. And you're going to have to look at that knuckle-headed husband of yours

and say hey you want to build an amazing new marriage how do we do that? that's the new adventure and it might expose the fact that this relationship was largely transactional and we have to create a different relationship that's not based on what mom gives to the kids that's hard

to connect in a different way. I feel like I just need to tell them we're entering our new season and you guys are on your own. Yes. And I'm deleting all of the apps. I will not pay for the following effective this date. Be very clear. Clear as kind. We say that around here all the time.

Clear as kind. Yes. Now, now let's role play. Hey, mom. It's October 1st and our insurance is going to be due. You want to go ahead and just cash out me that money? Nope. Sorry.

I already told the insurance company that here's your information. Call you. And I've deleted the apps. I don't even have a way to do it. No more apps. They're gone. And I love you enough to let you figure this one out. For real. Hey, Darlene, you're making a huge change and it's very, very hard. And we're proud of you. But now you got to go do it. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is the season for Halloween. It's October. We're wearing costumes and we're wearing masks. If you haven't started planning your costume yet,

get on it. And while you're thinking about it, I want you to be honest. A lot of us hide ourselves. We hide our true selves behind costumes and masks all the time. We do this at work. We do this around our friends. We do this around our families. We even do this when we look at ourselves in the mirror. I know because I've been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding behind masks and costumes all the time, if you find yourself hiding from your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can be honest,

where you can talk to somebody else and reflect and learn, and you can accept all the parts of yourself over time and start living an authentic life. Masks and costumes should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. And if you're considering therapy, try calling my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy.

You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for you and your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your

first month. That's betterhelp.com slash Deloney. Motivating your team to work and lead with the same passion you have is one of the toughest things in leadership, but it's crucial if you want to scale your business. Fortunately, Entree Leadership Summit is the leadership event that will equip you to build a team that fights shoulder to shoulder with you so you can grow like never before. Join us in Denver, Colorado, May 18th through the 21st by going to ramsaysolutions.com slash summit or click the link in the show notes. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Let's go out to Hannah in Atlanta, Georgia. What's going on, Hannah? Thank you so much for answering my call. Sure. The question that I have today is my husband

and I have been married for about 12 and a half years. We have one eight-year-old child, and back in 2018, I became disabled, and I'm not able to work very much. My income is roughly $1,000 a month for both myself and I receive a little for my child. It's a lot on my husband. He is a diesel mechanic. He was in the military for four years and got out. It was not much money at all. He got out.

We quit traveling with the military and came back home to Georgia. And he went to college to be a decent mechanic. I was in college to be a surgical technician and, of course, was unable to fulfill those dreams. I have been back to college trying to finish, but it's proven to be very difficult. I've been going back to college on and off for the last eight years. But just dealing with, you know, the stress of being disabled is tough. So we have no savings. We live in a single-wide trailer. I drive a vehicle that I bought about five years ago for $5,000. I do not have a car payment. We don't live beyond our means. We try to financially speaking, we try to live, you know, uh, smart for lack of better words, but we have no savings. We've been married for 12 years and

lately our trailer needs a lot of attention, probably close to about maybe 30 or $40,000 worth of work to it, which we can't afford. We'd have to take out a loan in order to, you know. But it's just, and, you know, we go back and forth about, well, do we take out more loans? Do we take out another loan to try to fix things up? Or could we possibly buy a house within the next five or ten years? It doesn't look possible, but, you know, we just, I feel like financially we're not in a very good position. He doesn't want to go back to college because, of course, that puts the stress of, I don't think it, I mean, it could be possible for us to live on $12,000 a year.

It would be really hard, you know what I mean? What's he making right now? Roughly $50,000 a year. Okay, and do you guys have any debt? Just what we owe, what we're left owing on the trailer, and he owns a year. Okay. And do you guys have any debt? Just what we owe, what we're left owing on the trailer. And he owns a vehicle that we have a payment on. He pays about $650 a month for his vehicle. Whoa.

Good God. That's a huge chunk of money right there. What's left on that loan for the vehicle? Roughly about $30 to $35 maybe. he is a 2019 f-150 does he need that for work can he get a 2010 f-150 that does the same thing it's possible that he can do away with the truck but his argument is you know it's said it would save us 7800 a. And I get that's a lot of money, but $7,800 a year, that's kind of like, you know, his argument is, I work, I earn the money for the household. I would like to have a nice vehicle to drive because we don't have much. I mean, honestly, we...

Yeah, but you're also making no progress. If I was able to just give you a $10,000 raise, it would change your life. Right. That's $10,000 in savings you could have by the end of the year by getting rid of this truck. Right. So we've got to make some changes

if you guys want a different life. Otherwise, we're going to stay in this cycle. What I'm going to say is going to sound not compassionate, and I don't mean that in any way. When we did the millionaire study here at Ramsey Solutions, we found the number three on the millionaire list was teachers.

Teachers. That's 50 to 60,000 bucks a year. And at the time, it was less than that, but inflation was less, okay? Right. And there's some discussion about, well, teachers are really good at planning because that's what they do for a living. And so they're good at planning their expenses. I have a different theory because my wife was a teacher and my wife bought a Corolla. And you know why?

Because she knew I was only going to make $50,000 a year forever. And she made peace with a certain kind of life. And what your husband wants is both and. He wants to be a diesel mechanic, which is an incredible, noble, necessary job. But for whatever reason, he's a diesel mechanic that makes 50,000 bucks a year. That's the job he has accepted and the path he's accepted. With that mathematical reality, you don't also get to say, while my family is living in a depreciating asset home, a trailer that is falling apart around you, I deserve this truck. I get to have this. Because we made some choices about math with our job. We made some choices about our career path. All good.

But, you know, then get to say math doesn't count. My family's future doesn't count because I get what I want. Do you see what I'm saying? Right. That does make sense. So if he chose to be a diesel mechanic and he chose to work his way up and become a manager of other diesel mechanics and to one day own his own diesel mechanic shop, great. With that will come a bunch more stress and with that should come a bunch more money. And with that new money, go buy yourself a new F-150.

You can't afford that now. And all of these things are a series of choices your situation your health it was probably not a choice what happened to you where you can't work multiple sclerosis i was in a wheelchair back in 2018 are you out of a wheelchair now i am out of a wheelchair congratulations sister Congratulations. You've been working hard, haven't you? Well, life is very hard. It is. And I am a substitute teacher in my hometown, and it is $100 a day, but there's 170 school days. So, I mean, I cannot physically work all 107. I'm actually only able to work about roughly five on a good month,

days out of the month. That's not a lot of money. So, I mean, and I'm super, like, don't get me wrong, I'm so thankful for our house. I don't hear one ounce of a lack of gratitude. I hear somebody who's very, very tired. Yes. And that's exactly what it is

I don't say most husbands that's not fair I don't want to over gender it most people need to hear that from you hey honey I can't sleep at night we have to do something different because I'm just looking and we keep doing the same thing over and we keep getting re-frustrated that the same thing is resulting in the same thing. Right.

So, okay, the truck, if he bought a cheap little dinger car, $2,000, $3,000, we do not have a payment that takes care of, I mean, we could have $8,000 extra a year, but ideally what's the goal? Like, you know, I would like to have a savings, and we've been married for 12 years, and at this point I'm like, what are we doing with our lives? So what type of advice could you give? Well, if he sells the truck, that's one part. If he can increase his income, whether that's with his core full-time work or extra work, that's more income. If you can increase your income a little bit by doing something different, that's more income. If you can increase your income a little bit by doing something different, that's more income. And I would stop sinking money in this trailer and I

would go rent somewhere while you continue to save up the emergency fund and then save up to get a house one day. Okay. And guess what? Five, 10 years of savings, you'll be able to have that house. Or we could be right where we are fixing up an old trailer that's going down in value while we drive our nice truck that's going down in value while we make no progress. That's the current status. And I think you're worth more than that. And I think all of this happens with a conversation where you have a neighbor that will come wash your kid for a few hours in the morning and you and your husband go have breakfast somewhere and y'all say, okay, we've been together for 12 years. You've served our country. You've gone to school. I'm seeing you provide. I'm working hard. I'm out of a

wheelchair. I'm working when I can. We've gone nowhere for a decade. And in 10 years from now, I want things to look different. What must be true today? So that 10 years from now, things look different. That makes a lot of sense. And then we're just going to build a map. And that's going to include you having hard conversations like, we can't afford this truck and I know you want it and I want you to have it, but we have a math problem right now. Okay. Okay. And this is a rebuild. We're going to rebuild our marriage the same way as we're going to rebuild our finances. And none of this is easy. You're going to choose your hard path, the hard path of continuing to do the same thing over and over and over again, and end up 10 years from now, just further behind, just with more repairs

on a trailer. Or we do the hard thing in 10 years from now, like George said, we're moving into a new house that we put 40% down on. And it's going to look very, very different. You get to choose. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here. You know, some people think budgeting means they can't have any fun with money. And I know this because that was me. But the truth is, budgeting doesn't limit your freedom. It actually gives you freedom. A budget is simply telling your money where to go. And the best way to do this is with EveryDollar, my favorite budgeting app. It'll help you create a plan for your money that fits your lifestyle. So whether it's a spontaneous date night or an epic Disney cruise, budget for some fun. Download every dollar for free today. We are back on The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney.

And if you're watching on YouTube or the Ramsey Network app, you'll notice there's another handsome guy next to us. And that is Tom Bilyeu. He's become a friend of the show. You probably have seen his face on YouTube. You probably listen to the podcast. Impact Theory is the media company that he co-founded. And before that, he co-founded a little company, a little startup called Quest Nutrition,

from nothing to a billion-dollar business in five years and exited from that. And so he's just this amazing serial entrepreneur, and we align with a lot of things, Tom. It's an honor to have you. It's an honor to be here. You guys have been a lot of fun. I have really enjoyed my time with you both. It's always a surprise when we're fun, John.

People don't expect that. No, they think I'm fun. The jury's out on you, and so it's good. It's good to hear that we're both fun. We've got to hang out and do interviews and stuff for our other shows these last few days. And it's amazing to me that the alignment we have with transformation and purpose and delayed gratification. Dave, people say he's an overnight success after 30 years of being in business, scratching and clawing. And we talked about this idea of entrepreneurship, which is something you're no stranger to. And who is this

for? And I want you to tell people who you think entrepreneurship is for, because there's a fallacy out there with young people going, I'm going to go work four hours a week and I'm going to crush it, not work a nine to five. Yeah. So the ingredients of an entrepreneur are going to be a high tolerance for risk and a just desperate desire to be punched in the face. And if you have those, boy, do I have something for you. So yeah, I mean, that's the hard reality is building something big is extremely difficult. Now it's incredibly gratifying

and it puts you in control of your own life. And it is, if you are a competitor and you always wanted to play sports, but maybe you weren't gifted at that, but you really want to compete at something that matters to you, that you love, you have passion for, that's business and you don't wear out. And in fact, in many ways, the older you get, the better you get. There are limitations. You do fatigue a little bit earlier as you get older, but it's pretty extraordinary. Business is the game of athletics that you never have to retire from.

So that's fascinating because we have young people exiting the workforce in record numbers because quote unquote, they don't want to work for anybody and they want to set their own hours. That's sideways, right? They are so misunderstanding what is about to happen. So there you go. Nobody works more than the CEO. Now you do get the autonomy. So if they're like me and they are pathologically incapable of working for somebody else, which is not a good thing.

That's Dave Ramsey. They just described him. If you really just can't do it, then it is liberating. But like there have been periods of my life where I'm working 120 hours a week for eight months straight. It's grueling.

This last round, my wife had to come up and say, you're now damaging our marriage, which is like an alarm bell that she can ring at any time. And she said, yeah, this is getting too much. And so you're not going to work less. You are for sure going to work more because what they think they're up against is their boss. And they're forgetting that their boss is up against the marketplace. And so now when you go out into the real world, you're up against the marketplace, man. And the right way to think about the marketplace is the cold dead eyes of a shark. They do not care about you. They just want a solution to their problem. And if you can deliver it, then they feel like you're bestie, right? Because you solved the problem for them. The second you don't, they're out.

They do not care. So it's brutal. So I guess leaving your nine to five because of the stress and anxiety and trading that for entrepreneurship, you may not relieve that part. You may not. But look, there are companies that you can find that you may align with more and work better. I'm not saying stay in a job that you don't want because it's worse out there. No, no, no. If control is your game, go start your own thing, but there's going

to be a high price to pay for that. If you hate your current job, make sure that your skills are such that you can go find another one, but go find it. I mean, you can and should love Mondays as much as you love a Friday or Saturday. And that's real, but most people don't get good enough to put themselves in that position. Yeah. Well, John, one of your hallmark philosophies is that winning won't make you well. And you've experienced this, Tom.

You were worth millions on paper, and yet you were miserable. What happened there, and what have you learned since then? In addition to that question, will you paint us a picture? I just imagine you sell Quest for a billion dollars. And I'm making up a number here just for fun, but they move 500 million bucks into escrow for you.

And you wake up the next day. Still tough. Well, the crazy thing is it actually happened in real time. So you're on a call with all these lawyers. There's literally like nine or 10 lawyers. And I was in the gym in my garage at that point. So living a sort of nice middle-class, upper middle-class life at that point. And we're in our just ugly, you have to imagine something ugly with a lot of spider webs. Okay. So that's where we're at. And I'm on the phone with the lawyers and they count down lawyer one, ready to transfer to ready to transfer. And they go around the room. They all say that. Launching a rocket ship. Literally.

And so then they press the button and you just sit there on your banking app and you hit refresh, refresh, refresh. And then all of a sudden, boom, it's crazy. Wow. Now, the best part is you throw your fist in the air. You're like, oh my God, we really made it. I'm out of this.

No more spider webs for me. Yeah. And you're like, oh, but wait a second. I have all the same insecurities that I had 45 seconds ago. No more spider webs for me. Yeah. And you're like, oh, but wait a second. I have all the same insecurities that I had 45 seconds ago. You go with you. Yeah. So the thing I want people to understand

is money's more powerful than you think. Don't listen to anybody that says money doesn't matter. Money matters a lot, but it will not make you respect yourself. And so once you understand psychologically, all you actually care about is, do I respect myself? You can lose if you respect yourself. But if you win and don't respect yourself, you will still be in emotional turmoil.

And so thankfully, I had already learned that lesson from the period you're talking about, where I was worth a couple million bucks on paper and I was completely miserable. So I was like, huh, telling the world that I'm a multi-millionaire has solved exactly zero problems for me so now what is this really about and at the time I would have said it's about feeling alive now what I would tell you is that if you want to feel good like really good the money's great it'll be a cool thing but it's about becoming the kind of person that is capable of winning a championship. So if you understand, it's better to be playing in the championship game and lose and never get the ring than to sit on the bench of a team that wins the ring. I would rather have been on the field, played my guts out and just not won. It just

didn't work out for me, but I was there, man. And I pushed myself and I played like that I can handle. But winning and knowing I didn't contribute. Yeah, that's tough. Yeah, it's tough, tough, tough, tough. Yeah. You say struggle well, struggle toward the thing that is worth struggling for. Yeah, because you no one can guarantee success, but you can guarantee the struggle. I promise if you try something sufficiently difficult, you will struggle for sure. And so now just were you struggling towards something that you enjoyed even while you were losing? And that's the right way to pursue something. So you've developed a reputation as what I would say one of the most hyper intentional

people I've ever been around. Like thoughtful, like I want to solve for this. I'm going to reverse engineer it and solve for this. And I want to, I want a been around. Like thoughtful. Like I want to solve for this. I'm going to reverse engineer it and solve for this. And I want a better marriage. I'm going to reverse engineer this and I want to make this much money. So I'm going to reverse engineer. I want my health to be this way.

Broken down intentionality is a series of habits. How do you teach people those? Like what do you tell people about those habits that you're going to do on a regular basis to get to the thing that you want to get to? Whatever that thing happens to be. Honestly, I repeat this a lot when people ask, but I never go out of my way to tell people. But if somebody is asking a specific question about what I do, I will tell them what I do.

I will tell them why I do it. But the short answer is everything I do, I do for cognitive optimization. So whether you're trying to be a better husband, if you have brain fog, if you're tired all the time, if you're grumpy, you're never going to be able to help. Uh, and so this is why I say, I want people to understand they are having a biological experience. So get sleep, get sunlight in your eyes. Um, make sure that your diet is on point. Like if you said, Tom, you need to improve somebody's life, but you can only touch one metric. The metric that I would go for is blood sugar. And so if you let me control your blood sugar, one, I mean, it's going to positively impact your sleep, which people don't see coming. It's going to have a massive impact on your joints. And it, from a metabolic standpoint is probably the leading indicator of brain fog, fatigue,

being hangry, all that stuff. And so you would not expect somebody to say one of, there are many more, but one of the keys to my success as an entrepreneur is my ability to get control of my body. I used to be 60 pounds heavier, six zero. Wow. And it took me two years to lose that weight. I've kept it off for almost a decade. It's just really simple rules that if you follow, you're going to be fine. That's amazing. Tom Bilyeu, go check him out. That's B-I-L-Y-E-U. And be sure to go to impacttheory.com. Check out Impact Theory University. And of course, his amazing show where he talks to the best minds in the world with fascinating conversations. Tom,

thanks for joining us today. Thanks for having me. Hey, folks, there's a lot of half-baked investing advice out there, but here's what you can do to get more confident about this stuff. Check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor connects you with local financial advisors who have the heart of a teacher. They'll help you level up your knowledge and build a retirement plan based on your goals, not theirs. Go to Ramseyysolutions.com

slash smartvester to get connected and get more confident about your plan. That's ramseysolutions.com slash smartvester. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at ramseysolutions.com slash smartvester. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Well, John, the Live Like No One Else cruise

is almost sold out. More than 80% of the cabins are already booked. So if you want to join us in March of 2025, secure your cabin today. How's the, I heard you had a Gmail list

going for your cannonball competition that you wanted to... We're working on it. Yeah. I like the Gmail list. Is that a dig it's a google doc form i was trying to think of a technology thing john's never even used that i was gonna say a yellow pad but you don't have that no i don't think my body could even create a splash if i cannonballed yeah you'd be like one of those small divers exactly yeah it's amazing well if you don't know what the Ramsey cruise is, the Live Like No One Else cruise,

it's the ultimate debt-free celebration. So if you've paid off debt, you've sacrificed, you've paid the price to win, you're in baby step four or above, this is your time to join us to celebrate. We're going to Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas, the whole Ramsey crew, special guests, musicians, magicians, songwriters, celebrity chefs, and even Dr. John Deloney. We got him. We booked him. So it's March 22nd through the 29th of 2025, a seven-day cruise, and it's going to be a blast. You can secure your spot with a $600 deposit before all the cabins are gone. Book it today, ramsesolutions.com

slash cruise to get all the info. All right, let's go to the phones. Haley joins us in Phoenix up next. What's going on, Haley? Hi, thanks for taking my call. How can we help? So I'm 19 and I'm a sophomore in college and my FAFSA was delayed and I don't know when I'm going to get it. So what I budgeted over the summer and thought what I'd be paying for school this semester has more than doubled and I don't know what to do. I feel like I've thought of every option I can, but I still feel lost in what I should do. Why'd your FAFSA get delayed? Because my school counselor basically emailed me and told me that my mom didn't file her 2022 taxes.

And so that delayed it because I'm still under my mom's insurance, so I have to file with her. So we had to... Well, it's not because of the insurance. That means she's still claiming you as a tax deduction. Oh. Have you talked to mom about this? Yeah, have you talked to mom? Yeah, I've talked to her.

I basically had to talk her into doing her taxes. She's not that great with money. So we had to mail them out since we couldn't submit them digitally. And I basically can't get my aid until I get the 2022 tax transcript. Are you already moved in? Yeah, I got this email the day I moved in. Okay. What's the shortfall?

How much do you owe? So I have four payments a month, and it's $3,500. I paid the August payment, and I paid till November. So I've already got the first one out of the way. So that buys you another few months or what? I'm sorry? How much time does that buy you before the next payment? So I pay every 15th of the month. So I have until September 15th to come up with another $3,500. And what did mom say? Does she have any money to help you out with this?

Or do you have any savings? Yes. So I had an emergency fund. So I dug into that for this. I saved over $6,000, almost $7, thousand over the summer so i have money left over so when by the time september 15th comes i'll have three thousand dollars but i'll be short 400 something and but i don't get that i don't get paid till the 18th

so i don't know i'll have enough by the 18th to pay the rest, but I don't know what the punishment is for paying a few days late. Here's what you got to do. You got to go sit down with your financial aid counselor and every university has one and you just have to lay out a map because here's what I don't want you to do. I don't want you to take all $7,000 that you earned this summer only to be told mid-October you have to move out. Okay. And what you'll have done is burned all the cash you have.

You'll be worse off for having gone to college. You'll have an unfinished transcript and they'll either fail you on everything or they'll let you finish a semester and you won't have access to your transcripts until you come up with the rest of the money okay um but i would sit down with a financial aid counselor and say here's the map here's my plan on how i can pay this but i'm going to be three days late here i'm going to be four days late here. I'm going to be four days late here. There is a Hail Mary pass here. This time at the end, I mean, at the beginning of every school year, there's sometimes an overspend and sometimes an underspend of scholarship dollars. Colleges will, they will budget just like we all budget. They budget for how much scholarship dollars they're

going to spend depending on how many ACT scores of a 29 they think they're going to get and how many athletes are going to get, et cetera. Sometimes they come through and a whole bunch of students, kind of like an airplane, they oversell the airplane and a whole bunch of students show up with 30 ACTs and they overspend their scholarship budget. Also, they often underspend it. And so there may be, this is a Hail Mary pass, there may be a pocket of unspent scholarship dollars still there that they can move to your account and get you through this semester.

Here's the ugly truth. There's not a long-term fix to this. You're gonna have to decide in realistic fashion, can I afford to go to school here? And George and I are both going to tell you, please don't take out loans. Please don't even mess with the FAFSA. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. You can't afford it. That means we have to go look at other alternatives, working all the way through school, going to a community college there in Arizona that they're going to pay for

any number of other options that you can afford. But right now you're driving a Lexus that you can't afford it. It doesn't matter that everyone around you is taking out money. George and I are just telling you, we've had to pay off student loans after we graduate and it's a nightmare. It's tough. Yeah. But I would go sit with a college official ASAP and get their plan in writing and find out what happens if we get to October and I don't have the other $3,000 to finish the semester. What are you going to actually do? And are you going to kick me out of school, make me move out? Like, what's the deal? But I don't want you waiting on mom's FAFSA to come in so that you can borrow your way into staying. That's just punting this inevitable trap downstream. And the graduates

who have gone before you owe in the, was it $1.8 trillion at this point? And I just can't in good faith tell you to join that crew. What are you studying, Haley? Forensic science. Are there other programs, universities, even online options you could do that would be cheaper in case you can't afford this? Okay. So I have looked into this. I work for the state of Arizona. So they had this program that I was looking into where they reimburse you and basically help you pay for your school. Excellent. But they only offer it for online students. And unfortunately, since I'm a science major and I have lab courses,

I can't be an online student. But I also thought about commuting to school because I live an hour away from where I go to school. How many days a week? But I live on campus. I have classes five days a week. Okay. I did this when I lived at home, and I made sure my schedule was I packed everything in on three days to limit my commute.

Yeah. Once you're not a sophomore anymore, you have a little bit more flexibility schedule-wise. Sometimes, sometimes not. But, hey, take that scholarship in. Take that reimbursement in. And sit with your financial aid counselor and say, I need us to figure this out. And often universities will do what they can because they want to receive money from any outside source possible. And they may figure out a way to help you do this. And it could be a

classification code. Another thing you may want to try to do is see if you can, you got a job with the state of Arizona. Is there a way you can get a job at the university? Because that often comes with a tuition discount or a full reimbursement there too. But continue to just beat the drum and beat the drum. With this one idea, I'm not going to borrow any money. That's going to take getting creative, Haley. We're wishing you the best. All right, for all of you listening to this show on YouTube or podcast, it is about to end.

But good news, more calls are coming up in the Ramsey Network mobile app, and that's where you can finish full episodes of The Ramsey Show. And if you're listening on radio, stay right where you are. The show will continue as scheduled. Two ways to get the free app. You can click the link in the show notes or just search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play. You don't want to miss what's coming up next. I can see some hot calls on the board, John. It's going to be a fun hour next. Hot calls. That's what we say. So go finish the show in the Ramsey Network app for free, and we will see you there.

That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you. Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom.

All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.