The Ramsey Show - Stop Looking for Shortcuts and Make Progress with Your Money

Episode Date: June 8, 2026

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Normal is broke, and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network and the Fairwin's Credit Union Studios. This is the Ramsey show. John Deloney joined by the one and only gangster, George Camel. Let's go out to York, Pennsylvania, and talk to Rhonda. Help me, Rhonda. Help me, Rhonda.

What's up? I hope you can help me. How are you doing, George and John? We're doing great. We're doing great. What's up? I'm really struggling. And I was wondering if it would benefit me to,

get a loan to pay off all my debt except for the house in order to give me a little breathing room. You sound terrified. Are you okay? Just have a lot going on in my life. Yeah, you sound like it. Take a deep breath for me. I'm trying to help my brother take care of my mom.

I'm trying to work a full-time job. I get up at 3 o'clock in the morning so that I can be at mom's by four. I said my brother can leave for work, and then I get my mama and take her to daycare, and then I go to work, and I don't get off till 5, 6 o'clock in the evening, and I travel over 65 miles a day to do all this. So let me interrupt you here, okay? whatever path you're on doing this is noble and pretty amazing and it's not sustainable it's not sustainable right how long has this been going on just over a year okay I always want you to push pause on I have

to I want you to really dig into that let's get into your money challenges right now what you're facing financially um and if we have time we can loop back um before the radio break we can loop back and talk through this idea of I have to. Okay. If you don't, my, George and I have a great friend in Will Godera, and he told me this, he's a famous restaurateur. And he said, if his staff doesn't spend time to go fill up their pitcher before their shift starts, they have nothing to serve their customers with.

And if you're not taking care of yourself and you end up in the hospital, you end up collapsing, you end up in a wreck at 3.30 in the morning because you're exhausted. Then you're unable to help yourself. You're unable to help your brother. You're unable to help your mom. Okay? So sometimes the greatest gift we can give other people is to say no. Okay.

Let's circle back to your money challenges. So how much debt do you have? 19,000. What kind of debt is that? Break it down for me. What are the types and what are the balances? It's all credit card debt. So 19,000 does across a couple of credit cards?

Yes. And then I have a house that's 26,000. $362. Well, the mortgage will leave a loan for now. Let's focus on the consumer debt by itself. How much are you bringing home every month? Do I need to, do I want to count overtime? Because I don't always have overtime.

I've been blessed that I've been able to get a little bit in. You don't have to count it. We'll go without that for now. My bring home would be $2,800. How much of that is the mortgage? What does that cost you? The mortgage is 1126. So we're approaching half your income just immediately out the door from that paycheck to the mortgage.

And then you've got the credit card bills. What are the minimum payments across all of those? I think that is 632. Wow. So then you've got $1,000 left to do everything else. utility bills, food, groceries, insurance, you name it. Correct. So that's part of it.

Part of the reason you can't breathe right now is a mathematical equation. There's not enough income coming in to cover the bills and knock out the debt, which is probably why you turned to the credit cards, right? There was a deficit, and the credit card company says, here, Rhonda, here's a $10,000 line of credit. Have at it. We'll help you. Yeah, it's among about six different cards. Okay. Are you still using those cards every month, or can you make your bills work with your income right now?

It would be seven different cards, and now I haven't been using my cards. I've been trying to make it on just what I have. That's amazing progress. That's a huge start, because part of the issue of getting out of debt is most people are still going into it while trying to get out. So back to your original question, should I take a loan out to pay off this other loan, these credit card debts? I wouldn't do that because it makes you feel like you've solved the problem when you've just moved it around and potentially made it worse. Because now you've got a debt consolidation loan of just one payment and now you go to attack this $19,000 mountain instead of debt snowballing it with the smallest balance. So what's your next smallest balance credit card debt? The smallest card balance. Is it $500,000,000 bucks?

I was just thinking it would give me a little piece. I only had to write one bill out or pay one bill. Yeah. Yeah, it's overwhelming to keep up with seven different bills. But debt consolidation, it could make the problem worse in a lot of other ways. So I'd rather you have these on auto pay. I'd be able to get a personal loan, but I wouldn't have to. do like that consolidation and I could get a better rate. But my next lowest, I just got

too paid off. My next lowest is $1,300.300. Okay, great. And that's what I think we need right now is a little bit of progress because you've probably felt hopeless for a while now, probably for the last year as you've been just clawing through all of this. Yeah, before all this happened, I was making really good progress and I had a second job and then all this happened Is there a possibility

that you can go to making this drive three days a week and your brother can pick up the other two? I can't because I'm there so he can leave for work. That's the only reason I have to be there at 4 o'clock

in the morning is he's a truck driver in in order to get his loads of and runs in for the day he has to leave at 4. What's the long-term plan to take care of her? Well, we're on a program where we're supposed to be able to get assistance to come into the home, but we've only, because of the 4 o'clock in the morning thing, nobody wants to take it. Is it possible that you can move her into your home for a while for a season?

I'd still have to run to no off for to take her to daycare. I don't know that she would be, she has dementia, and I don't know that that would be good for her, you know, in her element. I want you to pursue not just one support program, but I want you to pursue every possible support program, SSI benefits, Social Security benefits. I want you to knock on every door because what you're doing is so good and so noble and it's unsustainable. These crazy insane maddening rise in gas prices are crushing you. The cost of groceries is crushing you on top of just the schedule you're keeping. Got to take care of yourself so you can take care of those you love.

Hey guys, George Camel here. If you run a business, your phone is basically your cash register. And every missed call is money you didn't know. you lost. And miss calls, slow replies, customers who moved on before you got back to them, that's not a you problem, that's a system problem. That's where Quo comes in, a sponsor of today's show. Quo, spelled QUO, is the smarter way to run your business communications. Quo helps you and your team share one business number so you can reply faster and stay on top of every customer conversation. Nothing gets missed and every customer gets a response. Because look, you didn't

start a business to spend your days playing phone tag and digging through text messages. You're the owner, the operator, and the closer. So you need a system that keeps up with you. Quo works from your phone or computer. It logs calls, summarizes conversations, and gives you next steps. It's like having an assistant who never asks for a race. So try Quo free, plus get 20% off your first six months at Quo.com slash Ramsey. That's QUO.com slash Ramsey. Always say hello with Quo. Hey, George, the last caller we just took, I want to dig in on two things real quick. Because I think one of her core questions she asked was, I have to make seven different credit card payments every month. My life would be easier if I just went and got, it sounds like her credit was good enough to do this.

I just want to run down to a credit union and get one loan to cover all this stuff. And I just want to make one payment a month. And I can even make a case mathematically, for that to work. She might get a lower interest rate at a credit union than all these different credit cards. It's been my experience that what looks good on paper doesn't always play out in the real world. And what I mean by that is psychologically, you can get exhausted. I got so many nickel and dime things to do. And it's every month it's a beating, getting out my checkbook or getting online and trying to figure out what's the payment here and what's this one,

I just want to make one payment a month. And I get that, especially if I can make a mathematical case for it. But it's been my experience and tell me, if I'm wrong, psychologically speaking, what we miss is a whole bunch of little wins that give you a tailwind over time. And so what we're asking people to do often is not, people can beat me up all day for the math. What I'm trying to do is give you a psychological win so you can get through this thing quicker. Because what I've seen in my own life in person after person is they consolidate everything, get one giant mountain. They take 10 steps up that mountain, and they just say, ah, forget it. It's too high now, right? It feels insurmountable. Or they pay for five months, and that mountain is still pretty dang big,

and they just start like, I'm out. And so there's something about the psychology of a whole bunch of little wins, right? Yeah, I mean, the debt snowball has been studied. I mean, even Harvard Business Review came out and said, Dave Ramsey's right. The debt snowball method is the best way. to pay off debt because we know it's 80% behavior, it's 20% head knowledge. We all know maybe we shouldn't go into debt at 23% APR with Capital One. And yet millions of Americans do it. Yeah. And then we get desperate. And so we turn to what? More debt. We don't look in the mirror and say, oh, that's the solution. That person, that person's ability to create an income, to get on a budget, to cut the expenses, to sacrifice. That's the solution, not moving the pile

over and then going, I feel better now. And then next month, the payment still comes due, and you still can't afford the payment. And that was the problem that Rhonda was experiencing. She barely could afford her bills. And so it feels like that's one piece that could help. And it might help a tiny bit, but it's not going to solve the underlying issue. And I also want to call out she's a perfect example of how the cost of living, this increase in gas prices, this increase in inflation that just keeps sticking around, the increasing cost of groceries. For somebody like her, it's easy for me to get kind of callous and to say, well, you should have planned better, whatever.

Here's a woman trying to take care of her mom. Her and her brother are switching night shift to day shift. He's working his butt off too. These are noble people. And she's trying to keep her mom okay until somebody will show up as a part of some government program to help out with a mom who's got dementia. And then everything goes up 20 bucks a week, which turns into 80 bucks a month, which turns into, We don't have that kind of money, right? And so, man, this inflation's real.

And the pain people are feeling at home with their groceries, with their, like, I went home shopping with a family member recently to make their first home purchase. What was going for 355, $3.45, $345,000, $345,000, just a few years ago, I wouldn't have paid $200 for. I would have walked out. And so things have shifted very, very fast. And there's a very real weight to this. And so if you're listening to this and you're feeling like you're going crazy, you're not.

You're not. These are real expenses. These are real challenges. And at the same time, we need to get involved, right? And as Dave says, you don't get a pass on math. Like your income is still your income and the bills went up. We have a problem here. And sometimes it's more income is the solution.

Sometimes it's cutting some expenses. Sometimes it's drastic sacrifices. Right. Moving your entire family, selling the home, whatever it may be. but it's the reality. If you want to get to where you're going in today's America, you might need to be more drastic

than you would have five years ago. And you don't want to, but we got a math problem. And it's a painful, ugly, just a gnarly math problem affecting everybody. Let's go out to Anchorage, Alaska, and talk to Christina. Hey, Christina, what's going on? Hello, how are you guys?

Awesome. Running a scam called a podcast. It's the best. I'm like a little bit of a fan girl. I listen all the time and husband and I are on baby step number four. Awesome. I'm a fan girl of George too, so I feel it. I feel it.

So what's up? What's your question? Yep. Let me just. So it's kind of a weird one. We're doing well financially. We don't have any debt. We truly live by the baby steps.

We just never carry debt. The only thing we have debt for is our house. So that's great. We're working towards retirement. My job, I have a job that's an awesome job. I work from home most of the time. I sometimes will go in a few days a week if they need me. I've got an opportunity to perhaps take a promotion, which would be in the office.

We're still working on that. But anyway, I had mentioned when I was in the office the other day, like, hey, how come we never get annual raises? We almost have to threaten to go somewhere else before they'll give us a raise. And the next thing I know my boss was calling and saying, hey, I heard you're being recruited. I'd like to give you a $30,000. Yeah. How many? She said, I'd like to give you a $30,000 retention bonus for three years.

Is that per year or is that $10K a year for three years? 10K, yeah, 10K a year for three years all at once up front. So probably some pretty high taxes. And I guess my thought process is, well, we don't plan on being an old. Alaska in three years. We plan on retiring. My husband's going to retire in about two and a half years. And I don't know if there's a contract that's going to go with this. It hasn't, it was just a phone call that came to me two days ago. So I guess my question is, do I, should I counter and go, hey, why don't you just give me a raise? Like, why are we doing, I mean, I'm not going any, I wasn't

going anywhere. I just kind of mentioned that in passing that, because they don't. They don't do annual reviews, you know? Well, I've got, man, I've got so many questions. Question number one is, if this is such a wonderful job and a wonderful company, have you picked your head up a little bit just to look around and see what your market value is? I don't know of hardly any boss that will just pick up a phone and call an employee and say like, hey, you want $30,000? I know. That's almost unheard of. That tells me your word substantially more than you're being paid. Okay.

Thank you. I appreciate that. I believe that I am. Actually, I know that I am. I've been in the business for a long time. I've got knowledge. I've got, you know, and I know that they would like to keep me for all of those reasons. Do you, is there a number that you would leave for?

Or you're this close to retiring, you're just going to write it out no matter what? You know, I hadn't really thought. That's a great question I should have thought of. I don't know if there's a number that would cause me to leave. There actually was. I did do an interview with the competition about a year and a half ago. I gave them a number. They were like, oh, yeah, that's probably more than we'd like to pay.

And we kind of left it there. But they continuously, like, reach out and go, hey, want to go do coffee? And so, yeah, I do have a number, but it's kind of a high number. They didn't want to do it. These guys just, I guess, heard that somebody was courting me, if you will, and made a call and offered me 30K. So what are you making now? About 80. I work from home and I mean I took a huge pay cut and you guys plan on moving so like you know this isn't going to work if you do this for three years so it's not worth the golden handcuffs so I think you now have some negotiating power to say listen I will do a raise I'm not comfortable with the three year agreement but if you're willing to do a $10,000 raise or we'll do it once we'll do it annualized so let's split it up over three years yeah I think that that's a way a better deal too I mean I

I don't want you to pay this back if you leave early. And so I'd be reading the fine print making sure that this is leaning in your favor instead of theirs. Because they need you more than you need them. That's the key. I almost think that they're not going to give me a contract. I almost think they're just going to throw $30,000 in my bank account and say, okay, great. But don't become somebody you don't want to be. True.

Like always retain your integrity. And so even if it's a handshake, if you say you're going to do a thing, then do that thing. And so, yeah, I love the idea of you saying, I appreciate the offer. Let's break this up over three years. And we'll do it in installments. And we'll renegotiate this every year. Hey, George Camel here. Listen, if you've had your phone two or three years, your phone can now be unlocked.

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Yeah, $25 a month. Not for six months, not for a promotional period, forever. And there's no contract, no hidden fees, and no, we changed your plan because we felt like it, email. So if you're tired of overpaying for something you already own, this is your moment to save money. Go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey and get unlocked today. That's boostmobile.com slash Ramsey. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan. Man, buying or selling your home is high stakes because one bad deal could cost you tens of thousands or dollars or more. You don't want to overpay for your next house or sell your current home for

less than it's worth. And like I said in a previous break, I just went home shopping with a family member of mine in another state and it's dismal and abysmal it's really really tough like what you can get for your dollar is not great yeah and and dude i just bought a house not that long ago like several years ago and it's changed so fast um and i know that intellectually i read the data it's something else to walk inside these homes and to just look at here's much money we have and here's what we're going have to give up. Here's what we can't get. This isn't going to work. Here's the compromises. Yeah, it's tough. And listen, this is why Ramsey trusted connects you with vetted real estate agents who have the experience to guide you step by step to make smart decisions. One thing that's

awesome is my family member had an amazing real estate agent and was not afraid to say we're walking out the door, not doing this. Who actually cares about your budget instead of going, well, it's a little that outside of your budget, but... The real estate agent cared more about my family member than the sale. And it was evident. It was awesome. Walking into a house and be like, nope, we're leaving.

I'm not even letting you look at this house because they didn't tell the truth on the ad or whatever. It was amazing, right? Listen, you want a good real estate agent in your corner. Connecting is easy. I want you to compare agent profiles using Ramsey trusted and interview your top choices and pick the right agent for you. Find a local,

Ramsey trusted agent who has your best interest at heart for free at Ramsey Solutions.com slash agent or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Let's roll out to Gulfport, Mississippi, and talk to AMY. What's up, Amy? Hey, how are you? We're doing great. How are you? Doing good.

Thanks for taking my question. You bet. How can we help? Well, my husband and I are having a disagreement about what, costs we're covering for our youngest daughter. She's in college. We have three kids. Our oldest is completely on her own and employed.

And our middle and youngest are both in college. Our youngest chose to go the farthest away to state university, but it's one of the more expensive ones in the area. And her tuition is mostly covered with scholarships, and we don't really have to worry about that much. But since her second year of school, we've been covering her living expenses. So her apartment and utilities, that sort of thing. So what's the fight between you and your husband about?

So from the beginning with all of our kids, we told them that they need to start planning from a young age, how they're going to pay for school, whether they are in the military or get scholarships or play a sport, whatever it is, they will be responsible for their school. And we would help them, but they're all fairly close in age. So in theory, all of them could have been in college at the same time. So we said don't plan on mom and dad paying because we probably won't be able to. So the first two were good to go. And the youngest one, it seems like she just keeps having more expenses, more expenses.

and she calls Daddy and says, Daddy, I can't pay for it, and he always pays for it. You know why her expenses keep going up? Sorry to cut you off. You know why? Why? Because they can. Her line of credit keeps increasing. Yeah.

Because the bank says, yeah, I got more money. And you all used very vague language with underdeveloped frontal lobes. That was my nerdy way of saying your kids. Living expenses is the most vague term of all time. Or so is we'll help. We won't pay for all of it, but we'll help. Right. Right.

And probably you're in a different financial situation with the youngest one than you were with the oldest one. Is that fair? The two youngest, it's pretty much the same. Okay. Because they're only a year apart. You and your husband got to get on the same page, and then you all have to be radically crystal clear with your daughter. Mm-hmm.

That's it. And I have been. I think his challenge, we both, neither of us when we were there age had much and we paid, you know, worked like crazy and made our way through college. And he eventually joined the military because he wasn't able to pay for his expenses. So now he doesn't want to see them struggle. And that's why he keeps giving in. So every time we talked about it, I end up being like the worst mom in the world and just not being fair. Let me give you a picture, okay. I think struggle connected to love is one of the greatest gifts we can give our kids. Kids can struggle through a ton of stuff. It doesn't do them good long term to struggle alone. Okay.

So here's the picture. I want you to sit down with your husband. the world is a weight room and you and your husband had to walk into this weight room of life alone and figure out how to lift those weights and the world kept adding plates on there and making it heavier and y'all had to figure out how to get stronger what your daughter is experiencing is she walks in there and says hey this is really heavy and your husband's running in there and pushing her off the bench and he's lifting it that's that's that's that's nice It is protecting her from harm.

It is making sure she's going to walk out into the world with no strength. Right. So it's a long-term disservice to continue to bottomless pit bail her out. And it's a disservice for y'all to not be aligned and not be clear. Right. So that's step one. Is both of you need to be aligned? Because right now she's going, well, dad's going to definitely do this.

I'll just call dad. Which then makes you the bad guy, right? That's not fun for either. you and it's going to cause resentment between you and your husband. So here's what I would do. It's also cruel to say, we're cutting you off today. This can't go on and go on it. You've got to land the plane for. Land the planes. So say, hey, starting this fall, we're going to change things up. I'm sorry we weren't clear. Or starting at Christmas probably. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to cover your rent, utilities, and meal plan directly. We will not be sending you money.

We will pay for those directly. Anything beyond that, you're going to work part time if you want to afford it. That's not cruel. And here's what has to happen. she 100% will blow through that budget. Why? Because she always has, and you've always bail her out. You have to look across the table and say, we will not bail you out.

And then when she calls and says, I need money for it, you're going to have to say, sorry, honey, you have to go get a job. You're going to have to work more hours. You're going to have to cut back. You're going to have to hold the line. Otherwise, your boundaries are a waste of breath.

Give her whatever she wants. But George and I can't decide what you and your husband's values are. Pay for everything if you want. Just be honest about it. Or just pay for rent or just pay for groceries or just pay for car insurance or just pay for the cell phone bill. Every family's different. Every parent has different values. But man, you and your husband got a line here on that deal.

Right. And that's really our main problem. And he doesn't want to pay for everything. When we discuss it, he doesn't want to pay for everything. But he also doesn't want to tell her that he's not going to because he doesn't want her to struggle. I get that. That's his own guilt and shame. I'm the dad of the daughter, too.

I don't, when she comes in this morning, my wife's out of town. She said, hey, dad, can we have ice cream for breakfast? And I said, yes, why? Because I'm a weak coward. I went out this morning. And my daughter and I had an ice cream cone for breakfast, mainly because I wanted one. And she was a good avenue for that. But here's the thing.

I don't want her to struggle. And if I take her struggle from her, I'm robbing her. I'm robbing her of her dignity. I'm robbing her of her ability to get strong and I'm robbing her of adversity which she's going to need in a world that has spun out of control, right? She's not in crisis.

She's not about to be on the street. We're not being cruel here. It's just this is a part of the journey. Everyone in college should have to struggle a little bit. She's some skin in the game. It's an awkward, frustrating time and I worked part-time while I was in college.

I survived it and it gave me a work ethic that I have carried to this day. Right. So this is first a, This is a marriage problem more than anything else. I don't blame your daughter for any of this. No. But it's going to be, it might be a rude awakening at first.

And later on, she's going, you know what, I'm really glad mom and dad did that. Because I wouldn't be where I am today. You think your husband come up with a plan for when your daughter calls and says, but dad, y'all already agree. We're going to go out and get ice cream. You're on speakerphone together from now on. Yeah, exactly. Okay, guys, let me ask you something. What would it take for you to switch your bank?

Because if you're still earning next to nothing on your savings, you need to check out Fairwind's credit union. And I know what you're thinking. It might sound like a hassle. Moving your direct deposit, updating bills, getting a new debit card, feels like a lot. But here's what most people don't realize. Staying where you are could be costing you hundreds of dollars every year. Y'all, the average savings account pays less than half a percent. So let's say, for example, you've got $20,000 saved. You might earn around $70 a year. But with a fair wind's high-yield savings account, earning 3% APY or more, that same money could earn you over $600. And that's real money that you can use towards the baby steps. So don't let temporary comfort keep you stuck. Check out the

smart bundle from Fairwind Credit Union. You get a high yield savings account, a no-feet checking account, and the Ramsey B-Weird debit card. Go to fairwins.org slash Ramsey to learn more and make the switch today. That's fairwins.org slash Ramsey, insured by the NC. All right, let's roll out to Greensboro, North Carolina, and talk to dear Marie. What's up, Marie? Hi there. How are you doing? I'm good.

I hope you guys are. We're doing great. You stand out of trouble? Good. Trying to. Good. So what's up? I am calling because we have lived in our house for about 34 years.

We own the house. It's the house. one acre lot. We own the 1.2 acres on the other side of us. We have for 30 years. And just now the lot on the other side of us went up for sale. So we have been looking at that lot or hoping to buy it for years. It was in a will.

It was the woman who owned it died and she, and so the heirs own it, and they've just decided to put it up for sale. So we're wondering, I'm wondering, is this something that I could get a, that I could, I'm wondering how to finance it and if I should even buy it. I guess that's my question. Where are you guys at financially? Do you have any debt? Do you have emergency savings? I have no debt.

I have about $12,000 in savings. I've got a $90,000 401K. I've got about $155,000 in a brokerage account. Okay. And what's your real estate worth? Probably $400,000. And it's all paid for? No mortgages?

Does your husband have his own retirement plan? Or is that y'all's combined? No, I'm a widow. My husband died about four years ago. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah. How much is this land? They are asking 50, well,

they're actually asking $60,000. Oh. But we know we could get it for about 50. And you've got that money in your brokerage account. I do. Because I see here, the word finances on the board, and that always gives me a little, you know, spidey sense, tingling. Yeah, it gives me pause. I haven't had a mortgage for so long that I just, I'm really, oh, I don't want to borrow money ever.

Well, you don't have to. Why don't you just pay cash? Well, that's what I wondered. Is that a smart thing to use that money for? I would do that today. If I was in your exact situation, I would do that. It's not a huge portion of your world. How old are you?

I'm 62, and that's kind of part of the problem. How do you plan on retiring? What's the game plan? I'm going to work for probably several more years just because I want to. Okay. And then Social Security. I make about $56,000. So I take home about $30,000.

$600 a month. Okay. And what are your expenses every month? Anywhere between 17 and at the very most 2000. Great. So you've got plenty of margin in the budget. And have you done the research on what the property is going to cost you long term? Yes. And property tax-wise, my

full property tax right now are about $1,250. A year. A year. People are mad at you across America. Texans just got their swords out. I know. And to me... That's one month for a Texan. Okay. The one month is 10th.

Well, let me tell you, it just went up $800. So we had a reassessment. And so, you know, 1900 to me is like, what? Yeah. What are you going to do with the lot? Nothing. Not have neighbors. Just not have...

What's the end goal here? The end goal, well, and the really, really important part of a reason for getting the property is because... This area is being developed. It's a road that everybody would love to have and have it be commercial eventually someday. But there's also 57 acres behind me that somebody could buy that property and turn it into a road so they could get access to that property. There's also, I know that the last thing the people that are selling it talked about doing with it was putting a couple trailers on it. I mean, either way, it affects me dramatically, I think.

Yeah. I think at this price point, the fact that you can pay cash, it's not a huge part of your world. Obviously, we've got to catch up on the retirement side. But if you plan on working for the foreseeable future and chunking that margin away into retirement accounts, then I'll give you the green light on this one. And anytime I find myself in a situation like this, I always want to throw a couple more variables just to make sure I'm doing the right thing. So can I throw one or two at you? Absolutely. Sell everything and go buy a condo closer to town.

Oh, that's what my sons would say. For $300,000, a nice one. And no one, I don't have any more yard work ever again. Own your place. You'll probably put what you'd put two plus 50. You'd put $300,000, a quarter million dollars in your cash reserves for your retirement. Right. And you walk away from this whole mess.

Let them do whatever they want to with it. Oh, gosh. That's so sad to think about just because I've been here, raised my kids here. I get that. I get that. But now you're, are you alone out there now? How close is family? Oh, everybody's about, you know, within five miles, maybe 20 miles at the most. So I mean, I have everybody right here. So memories are a big thing, having a place for the kids to go run and play is a big thing. And thinking about future you. Yeah, I know. thinking about lawn care and mowers and somebody behind you, I just had somebody buy a whole bunch of raw land right behind my place.

And I'm not super excited about it. I bet not. I mean, I could easily see a neighborhood back there someday. That's right. And so if the opportunity is, let's just sell it and walk away from the whole thing. And there's developers out there that will overpay for it right now. And they'll be able to, they might be able to buy the whole chunk. They can buy that 60 lot.

They can buy your other lot. and plus your house. Somebody would love it. Yeah, I would consider that. My neighbors would hate me. Well, it sounds like a problem for your neighbors. You can make a muffins or something. I don't know.

I want you just to have a conversation. You can write a letter. You can just have a quiet conversation with 75-year-old you. Yep, that's a good conversation, too. Because nobody can take the memories from you that you've had in that house. Nobody can take the love of your husband. and you shared in that house. Nobody can take the adventures your kids had in that house.

And 75-year-old you gets to own her to have a voice in what happens next to. Yeah. That's a good thought. It's a great plan B. So I'm not trying to tell you to do that. I just want to make it uncomfortable for you. So you at least think about, hey, I'm not stuck either buying this or not buying this. There's other things I can do too, right?

There just wasn't a whole lot of vision and intentionality. It was just like, well, it's available now. I've been wanting it, and it'll avoid some potential future problems. Right. Yeah, yeah. I just don't want any, you know, you know, I don't want anything to change. I don't want anything, you know. It's changed.

It's already changed. Yeah, the one constant in your life. The one constant is things are going to change. Yeah. And so as much as you can be in the driver's seat of that change, the better. Okay. Because it's going to happen in and around you. if you can get yourself in a great position, that'd be awesome.

Yes, okay. I hope my boys aren't listening to this call because they're going to be like, see, we told you. Yeah. Listen, one of the greatest gifts we all have are people who love us and see our blind spots. Yeah. And if you have two young boys, or they're not young boys, they're young men. Oh, God, no.

Yeah. Yeah. If they're saying, hey, mom, we love you. And we think this is best for you long term. at least give them an audience. At least give them an audience. I know that can be humbling to do for aging parents, but unless they're trying to like, I don't know, George.

Can I? Can I? Trying to, yeah, yeah. And John, you love dirt more than most people I know. So the fact that you're telling her to get out there. I'm just throwing it out there. Go to the big city. My neighbors on one side, they had like 25 acres.

I tried to get it. I hadn't sold that many books. And I'm actively trying to buy a lot next to me now. So, like, I get that impulse, and if I can have some sort of control about who's going to be around me, I'm all in on that. But I'm also not 62. I'm also not completely alone out in the woods. I know what the maintenance and upkeep of being out in the woods is. Yeah.

It's never-ending. Well, there's a reason your wife also, you know, wanted a place in society. Right. Yeah. She wants a cell signal and running water all the time. Oh, so needy. I know. I married such a modern woman.

But yeah. She keeps you alive. That's right. You'd be out in the woods somewhere, like a feral animal if it wasn't for her. Not be here if it wasn't for her. We'll be back. Love you guys. Hey, you guys.

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Let's go out to Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and talk to Avery. What's up, Avery? Hello, I apologize for John. It's Portsmouth. He knew that, but he was just being funny. Wait, what is it? Portsmouth. Portsmouth, yes. Here's the thing. New Hampshire and Massachusetts, it gets all funky with the South. Imagine Ben Affleck saying he's going, I'm from Portsmouth.

Okay, but listen, in Texas we say all the words. So we say, like, if there's a town in Texas, it would be called Lewisville. And when I said the word Louisville up here in Tennessee, you would have thought, like it's wulville. It's one syllable, Louisville. And so when I see Portsmouth, I wouldn't name my town Portsmouth, but I didn't know what's called. What's it called? Portsmouth. Portsmouth.

Just Smith instead of Smouth. That's all. Neither here nor there. We're here to help Avery. Yeah, what's up, Avery? Because we're not going to solve this spelling dilemma. It's my OCD. Yeah, you know me.

What's up? All right, rip it, Avery. My question is. how do I stop letting fear about my financial future consume me as a single pringle Gen Z person? Here is more of my backstory. I'm 24. Debt free, never had debt. I'm on baby step 3B, saving for a home down payment. I'm an accountant making $63,000 a year. I'll have my CPA license by June 28. And in my family, I am the finance nerd to the point where every single day, I feel like all I'm doing is working and obsessing over finances. I feel like I just, in my thoughts a lot,

very much spiraling. I wonder, how am I going to get by the rest of my life, continuing to go down this good financial path as a single person because I grew up in a single parent household. And so I saw a lot of those struggles in our own household. The other day, I was wondering, how am I ever going to get by if I don't even know how to ask for raises at work and continue to advocate for myself? So it's a lot of spiraling and anxiety around that. And I just don't know how to how to solve that. And I love to get your counsel. Let me jump in here. So I want you to flip this entire script, okay? Okay. What if? And I think this is, is, is a, probably true to a large extent. What if your body's right? What if your body has a very real

lived experience of growing up in a single parent home where sometimes the lights might get cut off or get really close, where your mom was always scratching and clawed to keep you all fed? And now you're a young adult out into a world in a great profession that, by the way, everybody on planet Earth is saying AI is going to take it away. What if your body's alarm system was going off because it was working perfectly? What if you're not crazy is what I'm trying to say? Then what we have to do is we have to get beneath the spiraling because the spirals don't help. Rumination is a complete and utter waste of time. And contrary to popular belief and Instagram therapists, you can practice over time to take back control of your thoughts.

Okay? And I know this because I've done it. I was a spiraling mess. They used to call me the spiral because, dude, I'd get going and, man, I could unwind any conversation. And everyone would walk away being like, oh, this is all coming down now. You just have to decide what I want to focus my attention on. And you have to ask your body, what are you trying to protect me from? Your body's got a real, like, it's got a lived experience.

And let me tell you this, you're doing the right things at 24. Some of them, okay? Here's what they are. You're really getting control of your finances. You don't owe anybody any money. That's good. You are working towards credentials so you can help other people. Knuckleheads like me and George.

We use the same tax guy. You know why? We don't know how to do it. You're going to be there for guys like us. That's awesome. Okay? And not only are you there for guys like us, you're there for our families. That's amazing, okay?

So you're doing the right things there. Let me ask you other questions. What friends do you hang out with regularly? So I have a lot of Christian Catholic friends up here. I'm part of a really good young adults group. Otherwise, I feel like I keep my distance. I tend to notice I isolate myself a lot unless there's something that happens to happen. And I'm like, okay, fine, I'll go.

Let me say this. Your body would be failing you. if it let you sleep all night knowing you don't have a gang because you're all you got. And so what instead of, usually people call in the show and we're telling them how to get out of debt for you, I want you to make a commitment to yourself not to get out of debt. You've already done that hard work. I want you to make a commitment that once a week, twice a week, I'm going to put something on the calendar where I go put myself in the company of other people. And I'm going to go practice, not wearing a mask.

You know why? Because I'm worth being friends with. Because I'm quirky and weird and I'm a numbers nerd. But you know what? There's other folks out there like me. Do you get what I'm saying? I do. And if you're interested in a romantic relationship, which I'm pretty high on them because I'd be a worthless loser without mine, then start saying yes to things. Put yourself out with other people. I tell people under the age of 30, I want you in your apartment or in your home only to sleep. Okay. Get out and see the world and experience the world. Because all of your ruminating can't do anything about macroeconomic policy, can it?

All of your ruminating won't do one thing on some foreign country's crypto policy, will it? All of your anger and rage won't change the gas prices at the pump right now, will it? No. And so let's go do the things that we can do. What's the state of your health? I'm in good health. I'm not very active and I'd like to be better at it. There you go. I feel like I don't have a lot of discipline in my life. So your body would be failing you if it knows we're not on a good trajectory when it comes to movement. So we're not moving our bodies. We're going to move internally. So make a commitment to me and George, I don't know, and a couple million other people listening in. I'm going to go to the gym three days a week. I'm going to go for a walk in the morning three days a week. Okay. what I'm saying. And so I'm going to send you a copy of building a non-anxious life.

It's a book I wrote a few years ago about this exact thing. And here's how I know this so intimately. Not only have I sat with a Jillian people who experienced exactly what you're experiencing, I've been there. It's a nightmare. Okay. When you feel betrayed by your own body, your own mind. And I want to tell you on the other side of this thing, can you imagine this with me? It takes me about two minutes. I think that's my sleep latency, which is nerd talk for two minutes or less for my head to hit the pillow and I'm out. Can you imagine that? I promise it's...

I know, I know, I know, I promise. I used to take medicine to go to sleep, medicine to wake up. I promise that's there for you, okay? But you got to do that kind of work. And congrats on your finances. You're crushing it, Avery. Are you doing a written budget? I imagine a spreadsheet every month.

I'm doing a budgeting app. Unfortunately, not every dollar. I have you need a budget. Oh, boo. That's why you're having anxiety. I'm kidding. But no, here's my challenge. Regardless of what app you're using, don't look at it for 30 days.

Yes. Try that out. I'm telling you not to budget for 30 days. Don't open Excel for 30 days. Because I think Avery doesn't trust herself, and I'm going to prove to you that you are trustworthy when it comes to your finances and your future. You're doing so good. Hang on the line. We're going to get you hooked up with that free book.

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwin. of a family dies, and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about.

They shopped the term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them, and you can too. Visit zander.com. For instant online quotes, or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. All right, let's go out to Not Christopher, Columbus, Ohio, and talk to Brian. What's up, Brian? Hi. How are we doing, brother? Good, good. I have a question. Should I lower my 401k contributions to pay off some debt?

Yes. Next question. Yes. Not lower it. Stop it. Yeah, stop completely. How much credit card debt do you have? 8,000 right now. 8,000, okay. And how much are you contributing to retirement every month? I just raised it to 20%, but it used to be 10%. So you're basically willing to borrow against your investments at 22%. Pretty much.

Because, I mean, you wouldn't be in credit card debt if you had taken that investment contribution and moved it to covering whatever bills needed to be covered, right? Yeah, I guess. What happened? Like, how'd you end up going into debt? I bought a condo at 21, and I've never rented before, and my expenses got high,

and I wanted to redo the bathroom, so one of it's like an installment loan for the bathroom for five grand. How much do you have in savings right now? I have $10,000 in my 401K, $15,000 in stocks, and like a couple hundred bucks in a savings account. What app are you using to do the stock trading? It's through Raymond James. Okay. But it's not a retirement account, just like a brokerage account that you're investing in single stocks?

Yeah. Okay. So you could cash that out and cover the credit card debt today. Do it today. That's exactly what I would do. Do it today. You're 21. You have all the time in the world to let compound growth take over to invest.

We don't have time to be messing around with 22% interest for your credit cards. And statistically speaking, you're going to lose all that money anyway because day traders lose their butt cheeks. Both of them. So cash it out now and at least pay off your debts. I just feel bad because I got that money. For my grandma that passed away, like five years ago. So I don't want to, well, I guess it's at 18,000 now. I don't look at it ever.

Why did she give you the money? She passed away. So it was just an inheritance from grandma, and she left part of it to you? That's sweet. Exactly. Do you want to do the same for your grandkids? Yeah, oh, yeah. I like that plan.

I'm guessing grandma probably didn't have debt, right? That was a principal she lived by? Yeah. That's a pretty cool way to honor her by getting rid of your debt forever and cutting up the cards and saying, never again am I going to let this affect my ability to build wealth the fact that I owe other people money.

Okay, so you have a learning experience and just pay it all off and... Yeah, we lovingly call it a stupid tax. When you do something dumb, dude, you're 21. I made those mistakes all the way into my 30s, and so you're way ahead of the curve, brother. So, and here's where this is all coming from, Brian. We have a framework around here called the Baby Step 1 is a $1,000 starter emergency fund.

Do you have $1,000 to your name and cash checking their savings? Yes. Great. So Baby Step 2, we pay off all the consumer debt. That's everything but the mortgage using the debt snowball method. Do you have any debt outside of the 8K? No. Great.

No car loan, nothing? No, my car is paid off. Student loans? No, I didn't go to school. Homie, you're winning, dude. Congratulations. If you crush this, and I'm telling you, you like literally cut up the cards. I have not owned a credit card in 13 years and my life has only

been better for it. And I can't go into debt if I tried because I don't have the ability to. I don't have a vehicle to do that. And that's given me the ability to build wealth instead because I use my own money and I feel the pain at purchase. So if I don't have eight grand to do the renovation, I just have to wait and save up like a grown adult. And that's that ability is the same muscle that's going to allow you to build wealth to the rest of your life. And I love that you're investing 20%. I think that alone tells me you're going to be just fine on the wealth building side. You'll go use our investment calculator from 21 to 61, 40 years of investing just 15% of your current income. If you never get a raise, you will be a multimillionaire. And I don't even know

your income, but I know that for a fact. Thank you. Are you sure it's not even worth it? Because I, I mean, my credit card only has a thousand on it and then when I bought this condo I bought a TV for two and I've never missed a credit card payment and I get 2% cash back well in that case going to

as much debt as possible for 2% cash back you said you have 8 grand total as part of that what's the other 7 grand wait one second do you think just think about this for a second do you think the credit card companies give you 1 or 2% back

because they're your friend or do you think that they have used these incredible, extraordinary AI systems to know exactly how much to give you so you keep using their products and they're going to make so much money off of you? No way, I think you're right because I remember in high school, I heard the Apple credit card had 2% and that was like my dream. I just like my only goal was to get that credit card. Yeah, they're not your friend. They're running a business.

and if they're like, hey, we'll give you some money back, wink, wink. What do you make a year, Brian? I make $70,000, but with overtime. Well, $71,000 both overtime. I'll make $80. That is amazing. So here's the deal. 2% of that is $1,400.

Now you're obviously not spending $70,000 on a credit card. That would be insane. But I'm telling you, you could make 3%, 4% just by saving that amount of your income every month. It's a better equation. And so You guys I use the acorns app

And I like Rounds up Is that something like rounds up my change? Is that something good? Stop playing games, homie I would delete it It's like going into the like pond at your mall And trying to build wealth

By collecting the change in there And thinking that you're building wealth I met a girl yesterday I was like you're investing She said yeah I use the Acorns app I said how much you have invested $300 dollars?

By the time you retire, that's going to get you an ice cream cone. So put that into my stock thing because I'll make more than two percent. Just delete it. I'm going to give you the playbook, Brian. Simplify your life, homie. So in my book, Breaking Free from Broke, I want you to read two chapters. Number one is the credit card chapter. I go through all the different personality archetypes.

You're probably at least three of them. The perfect spender, the rewards, redeemer, all of that. And then read the wealthless patience chapter, and I will give you the playbook about where to invest, what to invest in, to give you confidence. So you're not just floundering. Because you're a really smart guy. You're doing a lot of things, but you just need a little bit of focus and put the blinders on to not fall for all of the traps that 21-year-olds, just like you are falling for, all over the country. Yeah, here's another way to think of it. You're going to the gym every day, and you're seeing all of these different weights, all these different, like,

machines and you're running through and doing one rep on all of them. It's like me at the gym basically. Except George has never walked into a gym in his life. But you're running, you pick up one dumbbell and you lift one over your head once and then you run to one machine and you do one leg and then you run to another machine. You're never going to get in shape that way. You might get tired.

You might be really annoying to all the people around you, but you're never going to build the muscle and the strength and the aesthetic you want unless you just do the boring thing over and. over again now and for you find one thing pay off the bed and by the way it's all acorns and credit cards and just put in the thing you need is another app what you need right now is just a game plan a budget savings in the bank invest into your employer retirement plan we did the largest study of millionaires ever done over 10,000 nobody was like dude two percent cash back is what got me there bro i acorns my way to millions they all said i just put money into my 401k every

year. And these were not the smartest people. They were average investors at best, but they said, my wealth is in my paid-for-home and my 401k, my employer retirement plan. That's all you need to be in wealth. Are you dating anyone? Yeah, my girlfriend lives a thing. Okay, spin your energy being a good boyfriend, not scrolling acorn. You're right. Take her on walks. Y'all go to a museum or something. Go fishing. I don't care what you do. I don't even know if there's water in Columbus, Ohio. Go do fun stuff. Get off these apps. Like, dude, I've never in my life heard a young woman or an older woman be like,

oh, I love him. He's got so many financial hack apps on his phone, and he just scrolls them when we're together. I've never heard that ever, ever. Hang on the line, Brian. We're going to send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke. We'll send you the audiobook if you're more of a listener. That's fine, too. That's my speed.

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Our question of the day is brought to you by Y-R-R-Fy. When people get buried under private student payments, they can't keep up with, they might think there's no way out of that mess. Why-R-R-F-I helps borrowers explore solutions with fixed-rate refinancing and a payment plan tailored to their situation. Go to Y-R-R-E-F-R-M-S-R-Y. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey may not be. available in all states. Today's question comes from Veronica in Florida. I'm almost $13,000 in debt

between credit cards and a car loan. My gym membership is 50 bucks and I have a personal trainer that charges $120 a week. I understand that I should cancel if I'm not using the gym, but I go four times a week. Why should I cancel when it benefits my physical health? So, here's the thing. What say you, John, as the person who works out? I'm saying that 14 years ago, I got on Craigslist and got a few kettlebells and started in my garage. And I also had a gym membership at the time. And then a couple months later, I got a few dumbbells. And a couple months later, I bought a squat rack.

And over the years, I've just continued adding. I still have a lot of the very first gear I got 10 years ago. And now I have a really nice, extensive home gym. It's awesome. And I have close personal friends. that are very successful personal trainers. And it's awesome. And there's been seasons when I hire trainers

for particular purposes, right? But this idea that I'm broke, I'm going to spend, it looks like, about $680. Yeah, $5.50 probably a month, right? Okay. Well, $120 a week times four is what, $480? Plus 50, there you go. Yeah, so $500 plus bucks a month.

Plus all the supplements. Right. So many supplements. Right. here's the thing Veronica you're broke and you've you've given yourself a straw man here I have to spend $500 a month or I can't be physically healthy that's just nonsense um you can get online and you can go check out my buddies at mind pump dude and get one uh workout program that you do from home for 60 days 90 days 120 days while I get your while you get your financial mess cleaned up

a personal trainer is something you buy that I love love and I actually believe in when you can afford it and you can't afford it. You're broke. It's a luxury. It is some, yeah, it's a thing you get when you have specific goals and you can afford it. Same as buying a Lexus. You know what Alexis is? An awesome car, a car that will last you till the end of time. And it's a luxury. It's expensive. And it should be because it's really nice. And so when you have the money and you can afford it, buy it, right? Like any number of things here, But this idea that I have to have this and I have to have this, I have to have this, or it's going to be detriment to my physical health.

That's a choice you're making. And so, yes, as someone who cares about you and your physical health, I would tell you, pause the personal trainer, cancel your gym membership. If you can, some of these gym memberships, you're probably locked in this until 2040. But cancel your gym membership. You have to write a letter with a feather pen and have a carrier pigeon deliver it. No, you have to have an owl from Hogwarts deliver in. But signing up, you can do with a text.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Just make direct eye contact and you're signed up to get out of the contract. And then when you're, as soon as you can afford it and you budget for it, then get a great personal trainer. I'm all in on that. But you can't afford it right now. And it's over $6,000 a year that could be going to crush this debt. And so you're going to have to make peace with, I'm going to pay interest a whole lot longer. I'm going to stay in debt longer, make these payments longer. And it's going to be harder to get out because we want the debt-free journey to be short. Yes. Like pain, but for as little amount of time as possible. And let's get on Facebook marketplace and get a couple of dumbbells and a kettlebell. And let's work out in our garage. Do some YouTube workouts for six months and just knock the debt out.

And use this as your wife. Like, here's why I want to get our debt. Never again do I want to have to downgrade what I'm doing with my physical health. And it may happen. What happened to me is when we started paying off debt, I canceled a lot of stuff. I realized, oh, man, the 15 minutes it takes me to drive to the gym. And the 15 minutes it takes me to drive home to the gym. And plus all the walking around and saying hi to everybody, I mean, that's half my workout, if not more, every morning.

And so I built it out of my garage and now I love being there. And now my kids work out with me. So there may be some benefits there and I'm not running down gyms. I love them. I love personal trainers. Veronica, you can't afford it. And here's my promise to you. Debt over time will impact your emotional health and your physical health. It will bury you. So put a pen in it and get this financial mess cleared up and then get on with your financial health. right now. Boom. Erritt, you should be like a

rapper or something. I think that's off the table for me at this point. I absolutely, for the first time I agree with you, George. Let's go out to Indianapolis and talk to Kathleen. What up, Kathleen?

Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. Oh, I'm John. I'm just kidding. What's up? Hi, doctor. How are you?

I mean, I could not be doing better. How are you? Blessed. Awesome. We have, I'm so excited. How close are you? How much are these debts? Well, one is the mortgage and the other one is my student loans.

How much are the student loans? 90,000. Dang, Gina, those are expensive student loans. Yeah. What do you guys make a year? I, we bring home 75. Total household income? Yes.

What was your degree in? Communications. What are you doing with? that, like, what's your current role? You better be communicating a lot. I was at one of the news stations for 13 years, and then I couldn't take it anymore, and I quit, and now I'm a blue-collared factory worker.

Oh, wow. I had a girl. All right, so how can we help? I graduated 16 years ago. I have been hustling to pay off the state loan debt. It's got to get me anywhere. What was the original balance? 40.

So it's grown by 50. Yeah. Well, I fell into default because I couldn't find a job for three years. Kathleen, you couldn't find a job for three years. I know. It was 2010 in recession. Okay. All right, we won't go back there.

I don't want to get distracted. All right, so what's your question today? Am I really going to keep hustling? get it paid off, it's going to be forgiven in four years. By who? Is it? The forgiveness people? Yes.

What program are you in that you think it's going to be forgiven in four years? Well, it's the one that Biden, so as long as it's not touched. Are you talking about PSLF, the public student loan forgiveness program? Yes. You're a factory worker, sister. You're not in that program. Oh. Yeah, you have to like enroll and make like 120 consent.

executive payments and stay in the public sector. I did. And did you apply for it after your 120th? Yeah. What did they tell you? Four more years. Why would it take four more years if you've made the amount of payments you needed? Because it's not 20 years.

That's what they told me. I would be not taking the gamble on this, because that loan's going to be $120,000 by then and you're not going to get approved that's my fear. I hope it's not true It's already doubled on you. I don't want it to triple and now you're left holding the bag

extra frustrated, extra hopeless. And you're going to play a terrible, very unfun, yet fun for me game? Go back in time with me to 2016. Now, you know, let's go back to 2010. 2010. Could anyone on the planet

have predicted we'd be living the world we're living right this second? No, no, absolutely not. No. Sci-fi writers are like, y'all are doing what? Right? And so you have way more faith in what's going to happen in four years than I do.

That's at least a presidential election away. I would way, way more trust the woman in the mirror than I would hang on to anything I think the federal government's going to do in four years. Okay. You get what I'm saying? And I know that's... Keep trying to pay it off.

I would get both of your incomes up and start attacking those loans with a vengeance. I'd get crazy aggressive. Yeah, with a vengeance is the right words. All right. I hate to tell you that, but I don't trust that program to be there in four years. We are absolute joy killers.

She started off so excited. I know, I know. Left crawling. But it's the truth. truth, that's all we can do. One of our favorite things is when people share their stories about how they're winning in their financial lives. And we just got this awesome fan review for our Every Dollar budgeting app.

It says, every dollar is excellent. It really helped me get to get my personal finances in order. Now that I married, my wife and I use it together out of our joint checking account, it really helps us maintain a common vision and a set of goals. Boo-ya. It's awesome to hear. Really good things happen when you're intentional with your money. Take control of your money.

Change your family tree and then live like no one else. Start every dollar for free today in the Apple Store or Google Play. Hey, let's roll back that last call real quick, George. I don't know how this works. And so I'm asking your wisdom here. If you took out $40,000 in loans and then in a federal student loan and then it doubles over time, can you go back and try to settle that? Or is that the new balance?

And that's going to be the way it is forever and ever, amen. No, you sign those dotted lines. You're in debt to the federal government. The interest is interest legally. And when you, you know, go in deferment or forbearance, I mean, the interest can still accrue. And so I talked to some people when we did the borrowed future podcast and I talked to these people and they had their loans for 20 years. And they're like, I don't understand. I only took out 40.

They were telling me the balance is now 80. Did I get scammed? And I go, no, you just never learned how the interest works. and what deferment really is. And so it's heartbreaking to see the numbers go up after you've even made your minimum payments. And the way it works is the interest is higher than your minimum payment, ergo the balance goes up instead of down.

And to her, so I was confused. I've never heard, so I think she was on the income-driven repayment program, which is different. That has a 20-year track. The PSLF, the Public Student Loan Forgiveness Program, is a 120 qualifying payments. that is the finish line. So I don't even think she knows what she's in, and I don't think she's in a forgiveness program.

Gotcha. So I'm very scared for her. And the truth is, even if she played the game perfectly, there's still a high chance she would not get approved. Well, here's what's going to happen, and it's going to have to be palatable to the common voter, or it's going to have to just be forced on us by a politician, which is either these things are going to have to get just dismissed,

and you're going to have, millions of people who paid their loans off enraged, or they're going to turn into very similar like IRS debt. Like y'all owe us. We're going to start garnishing your wages, and we're going to tag you because you owe the federal government money. I don't see another path, right? Yeah.

It's going to be one or the other. And then with every administration, the rules will change. It changes. Then it changes. Nope, we got rid of that. Every four years is just going to restart. And listen, if any politician tells you. We're going to get, these student loans are so evil. They're so bad. They're the worst things ever. They're so bad. We're going to dismiss them. They're only telling you the truth if they also

say in that same sentence, or in the next sentence, and next semester, we're not going to make another loan because they're so bad for you. It's like saying, hey, the food you're eating is so poisonous. We're going to give you medicine. And then we're just going to sell it right to you tomorrow. Right. And so if student loans are so bad, then come up with a long-term plan to stop. The government needs to not be involved. Yeah. They're backing them. So the student loan company is like, great.

If they don't pay, the government's going to pay, which is the taxpayer, by the way, because the government doesn't make any money. So that's a problem. And then the private student loans, they can be even scummier. They can do what they want. And so there's no good way to take out student loans. The best way is just to avoid student loan debt altogether. And if you have it, aggressively pay it off.

aggressively. No one's coming to save you. All right, let's go out to Des Moines, to Des Moines, and talk to Claire. Hey, Claire, what's up? Hi, how are you? Good. What's up? So I'm considering two options. One, I can stay out here in Iowa.

I've got a boyfriend here. He farms, and I can stay at my job, which pays me pretty well. Or I'm looking at returning to Texas and taking over the family business for a pretty significant pay raise. And it's really hard to decide which one is the right choice. I know that a W-2 employee does not have the same kind of long-term earning potential as a business owner. But they don't have the same long-term risk in some cases, too, right?

That is true. That is true. But take all that off the table for a second. I've just finished a two-year project digging into, answering the question is being married still worth it. This is still worth it in the modern era? And if so, how in the world are we supposed to do it? All right. and one of the data points that I found that surprised me the most was the net financial benefit

to a good or great marriage over the long haul. It R-O-I's in a really extraordinary way because you've got two people who can pick up the slack for each other. Sometimes you both are co-earners. Sometimes one person's able to carry the way to home or the other person's carrying, but it just has a net benefit over time. So, A, tell me about this knucklehead. farmer boy that you're in love with. Is he awesome? He is pretty awesome. My dad wishes it hadn't been a farmer because he wouldn't be so landlocked, but he is pretty great. He owns his own business. He's also got a family operation that he's working with. And he understands if I leave, he'd understand why.

Okay, so let me ask you a second question. Not one time did you say, I really am invested in this family business. I love this business. I want to be a part of it. You mentioned some money. Yeah, so I've never been involved in the family business on my side in Texas. It's accounting and finance, which is not what I currently work in, but it's also software. So that is sort of what I work in today. I am passionate about the mission. It does work with not-for-profits, but just like the farmer boyfriend, agriculture has been what I've been chasing since I was 18 years old.

Okay. So is that your love, your passion? You're like, I don't want to leave agriculture, or do you find to leave that life, potentially end this relationship to make some great money and work in the family business? Yeah, I'm not sure. I think stability is the most important thing to me. And I certainly want to do my family proud. And if this legacy is something that they want to pass on, this would actually be a second

generation family business. Then you don't want to let those people down, right? Well, but that's a lot of pressure now. Yeah, but you're in the driver's seat of your life. how old are you yes i should be i'm 26 okay at some point there's going to come a day when your dad won't be driving your the car that is your life and you get to decide when that is that is that is really fair right and if that means i'm going to give up my a passion i've had since i was 18 i'm going to give up a really stable relationship with a really great guy who has an who's also a part of a legacy family

business, and I'm going to go literally opposite, I'm going to go halfway across the United States to do so, then so be it. But go because you want to go. And you work in software, you work in technology. Ask yourself, what is the, the words I'm hearing the most on the AI disruption is in finance. Yeah, absolutely. And we are trying to, well, the family business in Texas is trying to account for that and be ahead of it a little bit. Oh, account. I see what you did there. That was a good joke. Okay, so I guess I can't help you, George. I don't know if you can't like...

Well, I'm just wondering, does this have to happen now? What's the urgency? So I have been given a deadline of about a month. And if you don't take it, who does? They will hire somebody to do the job in Texas. Okay. Are you okay with that? You know, after this call, I think I might be. I'm just like, I don't want you to feel this pressure like you're the savior of this whole thing.

And if you don't take it, the family name is sullied. It just feels like we're creating too much drama around it when the truth is they're willing to go hire a stranger off the street to do this. You've never been involved in it. You've never raised your hand and said, I want to go work in this business. And so if it's just for a pay raise, I think you're going to do astoundingly well in the current career field you're in if you just keep going. And let's flip this other side of this. When Dave started talking to his kids about, taking over ownership of Ramsey and working here. He didn't make them. In fact, they had to go through the paces to say, no, no, no, I really want this. Daniel was our current president. He got to start as a teenager painting stairwells and working in shipping and had to work his way up through sales. He had to prove to Dave, I want to take this thing on. Not, you better do it or I'm going to go

hire somebody else. You get what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a, I think that's a really good point. And that is how I see my boyfriend's family business operates. Okay. So you've got to own the final decision here. So I don't want you to be like, well, these two random B-level podcasters told us I should, like, I want you to own this and make a firm decision. But I want you to imagine yourself in the driver's seat of the car that is your life. Where do you want to go? Plus, this feels like a hallmark movie. And I want to see the happy ending here. I do too. Mary the Farmer. Mary the Farmer.

the farmer. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Let's go out to Manhattan, Kansas and talk to Stephanie. What's up, Stephanie? We're doing great. How are you? I'm doing great. Thanks for taking my call. You got it. What's up? Yeah, so my husband and I, we had a rental house. It was my primary house before we got married. And so we're just kind of at a crossroad. We don't know if we want to sell it and kind of cash it out, because the equity in it is quite a bit and we move on with our lives or if we want to hold on to it pay off debt in a couple years and then have this asset do you like being landlords oh unfortunately the first time we were landlords was a family situation so it left a bad

taste in our mouth um but we definitely learned what not to do if that makes sense okay but that was a great great way to evade my question do you like being a landlord um yes or no yes or no yes or no I'm a no Okay, cool Just let that be Just let that be It's okay What is it worth

So it is worth Between 150 to 200 And I owe about 12,000 on it Oh nice That's almost paid off That's fantastic Yes Okay so let's flip the script here

If you didn't own this thing You have your life you have now Would you sink the money To go buy this thing As a rental property No So why are we hanging on to it? because it was your house before you got married?

Yeah, it was my baby, and I had a house fire in it, so I kind of built it up from bottom up kind of, and definitely attached to it, but also I've gotten advice for it, like, oh, no, don't sell, don't sell. I'm like, we're ready to sell it, and now we're like, wait, is that stupid? Is it worth $100,000 more next year? So, yeah, we're just really, like, not sure what to do. We do want to move on with our life.

We're going through infertility, and this would kind of help us go through that process a lot more smoother. Yeah, that's a pretty big Y. Yeah. That's a great Y to have to get out of debt and get some financial footing. How much debt do you guys have? Including that house and our current house, we're about $64,000. But no consumer debt? It's just mortgages?

We do have about $6,000 in credit card. That's me, and then $8,000 in a car. Okay, so we have really 14,000 in consumer debt and the rest is mortgages? Yes. What's the household income? He brings about $4,500 a month, and I was full-time. I cut back to like super, super part-time when we realize we're going through infertility. So I bring about 800 a month.

Okay, so total currently is $5,300 a month? About that, yeah. How much margin do you have at the end of each month? How much is left over that you can use to tackle debt? Just this year we really buckled on the budget and we realized we could have between one month we had like $1,000 and then last once we had like $200 because some stuff came up. Okay.

So at this rate, best case scenario, it would still take you over a year just to get rid of the consumer debt, the $14,000. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's a long time while you're trying to also deal with the infertility. right? Right. And we do have about 11 grand in savings, which we've been holding off on if we need do repairs to the house to sell it or if we do need to put it into fertility. So we haven't quite

no ball affected it and put it towards all the debt yet because we're not sure. Like I had two surgeries last year, things like that. It's been really interesting. What if we flip the script again? How old were you when you bought this house? I was 23. Okay. How long did you own it before there was the fire and you rebuilt it? A year. Okay. Go back and have an imaginary conversation with 24-year-old you. And imagine her looking at you. How old are you now? 30-5, almost 35.

Almost 35. Imagine 24-year-old you looking at 35-year-old you and 24-year-old you saying the following. I'm going to buy this house. and I'm going to fix it up when it burns down. I'm going to do a ton of hard work, a lot of sweat equity, because one day we want to be a mom. And one day this is going to be worth a whole lot of money and it's going to get you and some new knuckle-headed husband

that you haven't even met yet. It's going to clear all the debts for y'all. It's going to pay off the house you'll live in. It's going to put some cash in the bank so that y'all can go through the harrowing process that is infertility. I want us to have a baby. So I'm going to do all this work at 24

so that I can hand you this over when you're 35 and you'll be set up. That changes the whole thing, huh? That's beautiful, yeah. So here's the math on that. You net 130 from the sale of this place. You pay off your 14,000 of consumer debt, you pay off the other mortgage.

Well, now you have 60 grand laying around. On top of the 11 you have laying around. So now you have a full emergency fund and money to do the... fertility treatments without going into debt ever again with no stress all peace by the way you're 35 in a new marriage and you have a pay for house yeah right and so is there a possibility this house goes up in value next year five years from now 10 years from now yep but do you want to be having a conversation with 45 year old you saying you know what we decided to keep borrowing money we

decided to go $100 grand in debt with infertility treatments that may or may not have worked, and we really wanted to have some equity in a home I owned when I was 24. Aren't you proud of us? Or would you rather talk to a 45-year-old you who may be holding a 5-year-old and a 3-year-old or a 5-year-old and a 2-year-old or whatever and say, we don't owe anybody anything, and we decided we wanted to have the life that we wanted to have? I love that. Do you what I'm saying?

I think selling it would be way more life-changing than keeping it. Agreed. That's the simplest way to put it. And so if I'm in your shoes, based on what you told us, I would sell it today. I'm offloading. I'll do the minimal repairs needed to make it palatable for the market to sell to get top dollar for it. And if you need a real estate pro, you can jump on to ramsysolutions.com slash agent, and they'll get you the best deal they can.

But I would move forward with this because I think your Y is too strong to be hanging on to this default landlord life. I agree. Definitely talking about helped a lot and put it in perspective for sure. Will you do us a huge favor? When baby number one is born, will you call back into the show? And let me and George cheer you on. People love the where are they now. That's one of the best where are they now as I can think of is you calling back and we hear a baby squealing in the background. Yeah, it's one of my favorite things in the world.

And I've been there. It's a harrowing long walk and it's lonely. And yeah, we want to celebrate with you when it happens, okay? Thank you. I will do that. Awesome. We'll be looking forward to it. That'll be fantastic. John, that call such a great reminder that the baby steps are not meant to be optimal. The baby steps are meant because life isn't optimal. Yeah.

That's the craziest part to me. The reason you do it is to have flexibility, options, and margin when life goes sideways. Right. When on paper, it didn't look like how I thought it was. And I think the grief you and I take, you take it way more than me, but the grief we take from internet potshotters and social media pot shotters and other influencers are, yeah, but look at this. Look how much of money you're leaving on the table.

Look how much money you're just holding on to. You're paying this out of order. There's a reason. And it's because none of these formulas in a spreadsheet account for life happens. And when you talk to thousands of people going through cancer treatment, infertility, job loss, then you realize. margin and psychological wins are way more important than arbitrage. Leverage.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want some. something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today.

That's Ramsey Solutions.com. Charleston, South Carolina. Let's talk to Aubrey. What's up, Aubrey? Hi, how's it going? Excellent. How are you, brother? Doing good. It's weird. I can't believe I'm talking to you guys. Listen to you guys for a long time.

We were just talking. We can't believe we're talking to you, man. That's awesome. What's up? Very cool. Yeah, well, my son Henley, he's 11 years old, and he opened up a Pokemon pack the other day. It's impossible to get him, but his grandmother bought him a Pokemon pack, and he happened to get a very valuable card in the pack. Let's go. Grandin.

How valuable? It was about $1,000, well, probably about $1,400, but we sold it to a local card shop, so he got about $1,000. Wow. A thousand dollars? Yeah. What kind of card was it? inquiring minds want to know. It was the mega-gangar E-X, the most current release.

That's like the chase card that everybody's after. George has that tattooed on his lower back. Oh, that's the card. Yeah, right above the Aztec son he has. He got that one tattooed there. How old is your son? He's 11. Okay.

Wow. And did he give him the money? Yeah, yeah, he's got, we're letting him decide how he wants to do it. So he's a very, very responsible 11-year-old. You're going to laugh, but I want to let you guys know. He's read the Total Money Makeover, and then he listened on Audible to Entree Leadership and Smart Money, Smart Kids.

So he's like... Goodness gracious. So no Legos for this guy. He'd get him a bunch of toilet paper and teach him out of wrap houses or something. You're in danger of creating a nerd bigger than even us. That's awesome, man. Way to go.

He's a good kid. All right, so what's your question, man? Yeah, so he's wondering what he should do with it. He has a plan so far. So I don't know if you would just share what he's thinking so far with you guys. Sure. Yeah, we basically, from the smart money, smart kids, he said there's three things you can do with money.

You can save it. You can spend it and you can give it. So he wants to give $300 to the church. He wants to save $300. He wants to spend $200 and then have the other $200 for like gifts for family and friends and kind of buying other people's stuff. How do we clone this kid? This is crazy.

Is he real? I literally thought you were going to say he wants to buy a thousand dollars worth of Pokemon packs to redo this. I'm like, you created a generic gambler at this point. That's right. Let's do it again. I love that. You think so.

Yeah, he's just super generous and we're almost, almost found myself trying to discourage his generosity. I'm like, I don't think that's quite the right move here. So he wanted to get your guys' thoughts on that plan. And yeah, my only concern would be with what you just told me, amazing. And that's a direct reflection of the parenting he's receiving. So kudos to you, man. Like, as the father of a 10-year-old, like, well done. That's awesome. We need more young people and out in the world like him. My only concern would be that there's no sort of, this isn't

the right word, but it's close enough, Survivor's guilt. I got this money. My grandma bought me something. I end up with a thousand bucks. And so I kind of owe 200 bucks. to the side to buy other people's stuff. Right? And I would sit down with my son or my daughter at that age and make sure, like, I do believe I have an obligation. I owe, as a tither, I have a responsibility to pay back to my local church because I know where that money's going.

It's going out to the local community, right? And to help the least of these in our community. Like, that's a responsibility I have. But if I'm going to buy gifts for friends, family, I want that to come from a place in his heart of, like, because I want to, not because I feel like, I kind of feel bad because I got this thing. So I kind of owe everybody. You get what I'm saying? And it's just a moment to teach him about emotions and about the spirit of things and obligation, which that's a tough, those are tough concepts for adults to have their head around much less

11-year-olds, but it could just open up some great conversations with you guys. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's good. And probably be sure to have that conversation. And then make sure if he's wanted to give that much that that's not coming from a place of guilt. Yeah, and it may just be, he saw grandma's eyes light up and he loves giving stuff away. I remember, I mean, I've talked about this a lot on the show, but my son and I, for years, went to breakfast once a week at a local waffle house. And that was a way I taught him, here's what generosity like looks like, right? Let's like, let's be ridiculous and tip these waiters. And their response was so extraordinary.

We developed relationships with the Wade staff because we went there all the time. for years, that I had to teach him, hey, you can't tip all of your money away because you've got to pay bill. Like, you're going to have to, like, have a light bill one day, right? Because it was so overwhelming. The reward was so big. And so I never imagined I'd have to teach a seventh grader that lesson. Like, well, you got to hold on to some of your money. You can't just give it all away. But, man, I'd much rather be teaching from that place than the other, right? Good for you, man. So, yeah, the ratios might be slightly off. You know, guys might decide, hey, let's do 100 to the church, we're going to do 100

that's spontaneous. So if we're out and we have a great server, you can hand them that $100 bill. We're going to put a couple hundred bucks in a high-yield savings account for short-term goals. I mean, the kid's going to be driving in five years and we know how expensive cars are

and maybe put some in a long-term plan, like a $529 plan for college, just to show him and get him understanding compound growth. You want to use this as an opportunity to really develop y'all's relationship. Teach him about how much you tie. and what percentage you use and here's why.

And so instead of tithing 30%, maybe you say, hey, me and your mom, because of this scripture, because of this teaching, because of whatever, here's how much we tithe. It's your money. You're free to do with what you want,

but here's what we do, and here's why. And you begin to teach them the why underneath some of these exercises, and I think they can be a really powerful, like, intimacy, and, like, it's a way to connect with him

at a deeper level, right? Yeah. Well, and with that, like, I mean, we, I don't know, your guys' thoughts, we weren't planning to, like, override his decision on it. I mean, we were thinking to, you know, really, a thousand dollars is going to come and go, right? Like, this is more of a teaching opportunity for him to even experience, handling what's a lot of money for someone his age.

I mean, would you guys agree with that to not kind of override? I guess unless he was doing something crazy. I think it's on here. Yeah, I get that question a lot. When someone's like, hey, my kid just got 50 bucks for a rake in the neighbor's yard, and he wants to blow it on a Lego kit and he's 10, I say let him blow it because that's how they're going to learn. I'd much rather them do that and get their first raise at 22 like I did

and go buy a stupid truck you can't afford. You want their regret and failure to happen when they're 11 with $1,000 and not $31 with $100,000. That's right. So it's a great lesson to learn because nothing's on fire and there's nothing fatal here. But I would let him have the final say. And you as sort of a guide can just offer some recommendations and go, What do you think, bud?

A great, a great sentence starter with an 11-year-old is. All right, teach me about why you want to do this. Teach me about where you came up with the number 300 for. And teach me about wanting to put 200 aside. Like, you want to give away 50% half of this money. That's amazing. Yeah. Tell me about that.

And have him just, like, let him know at the age of 11 that he can talk to his dad about stuff. They can talk to his mom about stuff. Because now you're planting seeds that are going. going to pay off 10, 20, 30 years from now, which are amazing. Yeah, absolutely. Does Grandma get a commission from the winnings here? She better. I think we get Grandma a nice gift.

I feel like if Grandma bought me a lottery ticket and I hit, I feel like I should get Grandma a little something. Something. Some flowers. Yeah. A good idea. Oh, that's awesome. You guys are so great all around.

This is a great question. Quick short follow up. With that, any? We counted debating on what is he saving for right now, and if that should be in a high yield or if that should be an investment. My thought was the car is probably the next thing he's saving for, but any input from you guys on that? Put an high-old savings account. Yeah, I mean, Carr is probably the big one, and then college is not too far beyond that. And so I like showing him how short-term savings works for goals and then how long-term investing works.

And I like the mix of both because he'll get a handle on. Both of these things are important. There's not really a priority here. It just depends on when the goal is going to happen. Okay. So I like this all around. Teach him a little giving, a little short-term saving, long-term investing, and, of course, spending. Let him enjoy himself.

He's 11. Yeah, and you may have to look at him and say, hey, you know there's Dave Ramsey guy you love? He spends a lot of time in Cabo. Like, learn to spend your money, too, right? Dave's insanely generous, and Dave has a good time also, right? So you might have to push him a little bit, like, hey, we're going to go spend some of his money. We're going to have some fun. Yeah.

Because we want him to enjoy his life. Teaching someone to be well-rounded and balanced, that's one of the most difficult things you can do. Because people tend to fall on one side of the teeter-totter or the other, yeah. All right, we'll be back soon. Hey guys, George Camel here. You ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show for it? You run into Target for one thing and somehow walk out $87 later with toothpaste and emotional support candles? Just me?

Okay. Well, that's the problem. Most people don't pay attention to how they spend their money, so it does whatever it wants. And that's why we created every dollar. It's a budgeting app that helps you create a simple plan for your money. Every dollar's simple, it's clear, and it helps track where your money's actually going. Plus, you get daily lessons, to do's and reminders along the way. It's like having a money coach in your pocket.

Your money's been freelancing long enough. It's time to give every dollar a full-time job. Go download every dollar for free on the app store or Google Play. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. Today we're going to break down the most asked questions from this past week on Ask Ramsey. Yeah, we got some questions around budgeting, how to pay off debt, building wealth. But the number one question was around retirement. And this is the age old question.

How can I determine if I have enough savings to retire? Age old. I see what you did there. Age old. See, you like that retirement. This comes down to one core idea. You want to have enough saved so that you can live off the growth without depleting the principle. So without getting it down to zero while you're still alive. that's not fun. So your annual retirement expenses, you can divide that by 0.1. That's your

retirement nest egg goal if you're looking at 10% rate of return annually. So if you need 60 grand a year to live on, you need at least $600,000 invested in good gross stock mutual funds, averaging 10% annually. So that 60K comes from growth alone, your principal, stayed intact, that's 600 grand, if that happens. So to get your number, ask yourself, where do you want to live in retirement? What does your ideal lifestyle look like? Will you have any income streams like pensions, social security, part-time work. That all gets factored in here. And a few important reminders, if you're young especially, I would not fully count on that social security number, especially as your primary income. I would absolutely. Have it be a bonus that

may come. I love that. Plan for it to not exist. It's gravy on top. And be completely debt-free before you retire. If you follow the Ramsey plan, you don't have a mortgage payment, you don't owe anyone money, you've got plenty of money in the bank, you've been investing for several decades. And then healthcare costs. That's a big one. Nobody truly knows what health care costs are going to be when you retire, unless you're retiring this year. Then you have a pretty good picture. So that's another piece to factor in. And Ask Ramsey can help you get started planning for retirement, and it can connect you to a SmartVester Pro. So there's the big caveat. When it comes to a decision this big with this much writing on it, I'm not just going to go to AI to figure it out.

No. It's a good starting point, but getting connected with the actual registered investment professional who has the heart of a teacher, that's the key. And we've been connecting listeners to them for over 20 years. SmartVestor pros can help you create and reach those goals, help you make informed investing decisions. So you can find that at ramsysolutions.com slash smartvester. And if you want to check out Ask Ramsey, our free AI tool, just jump on to Ramsey Solutions.com.

All right, let's roll out to Toronto, Ontario. Or as Texans call it, Northern Oklahoma, and talk to Alex. What's up, Alex? Did we lose him? Alex, you there? it's that Canadian phone line stuff we just can't figure it out all right we'll try Alex later on

let's go to Greg in Charlottesville Virginia what's up Greg hey John and George honor to speak with y'all huge fans of both your shows thank you brother appreciate you man what's up hey so my wife and I are I have the opportunity to buy the house that we are

renting we've been renting it for five years We love the property. It's a two and a half acre property, single family home. The reason we have some pause is because I've heard Dave talk a lot about manufactured homes and the way they go down in value. This is a double wide that is on a permanent foundation. You know, it's got a block foundation the whole way around. The title has also been relinquished to the county, so it's a permanent dwelling.

is does the rule, quote, that manufactured homes go down and value still apply to this situation versus one that's parked on a rented piece of land with wheels on it? I've not heard Dave talk about that. I don't know. I just go, if you weren't renting this place, would you guys be on the market going, that's the one? Probably because of the market in this area. What's it cost for a single family home in your area?

$17 million. So the comp store of like a three-bedroom, two-bath, $1,600 square foot house on two-half acres is probably $450 around here. Okay. And we have the opportunity to buy this one for $300. That feels like a lot of money for a house of that type. The landlord, we have a great relationship with him. He's owned it for 15 years.

and he bought it for 90, and it's now appraised right at 300. Is the home appraising for that, or is the land appraising for that? The whole thing. Yeah, the land itself is almost 200. Yeah, I would imagine the land is what's appreciated around this, especially in Toronto, getting 200. The real asset is the dirt. What's your financial situation?

It's fine. We have no doubt we're ready to buy. How much do you have in savings? We love the... About 50,000. So you'd be taking on a $250,000 mortgage? Yeah. Have you crunched the numbers on a 15-year fixed rate to see what that payment

would end up being? Yeah, it all works fine. We'd be fine. We would actually love to buy it. I was just curious if there was any insights on the double-wide. Outside, it looks like a ranch house. It has no, you couldn't tell it to double life from the outside, inside, it still has the handling on the walls.

We've lived here for five years. We love it. I really wanted to get an opinion on that. And that's, I mean, obviously, it's appreciated, but I think that's because of the dirt, not because of the house. So I don't want to, I don't want you to be misled thinking that, well, this house is going to be worth $500,000. It may one day, but that's going to be largely due to the dirt, and that house will be scrapped

and they'll put something else on there. Yeah, given the way how they've surrendered the title, etc., etc., I can't give you an answer. I don't know. We'd be lying if we were like, it absolutely will do this or this. I would just personally,

if you're not ready to buy a traditional single family home, then I would just pause and keep renting and wait to get that $400,000 house a year or two from now. Or at the very, very least, brother, I know you've lived there for five years. I would still go through the entire,

rigamarue and get a full home inspection on it and talk to an inspector. Even though you've lived there and said, no, we know, we know everything about this house. We've lived there for five years. I don't want someone to come through. It'd be worth the money for me to make sure I knew what I was getting into and what it's worth. And you may want to check with a mortgage professional in your area and check and see if there's lending law differences on mobile homes versus traditional homes. I just don't have enough.

I don't know enough. Dave might know that off top of his head. I talked with Churchill, and they, we've started the process. Okay. Okay. And I trust, I trust them. I mean, I've trusted them multiple times. And so.

What do you guys make? About 80. Okay. I'm just trying to think, how long would it take you guys to save up another 50 grand or 70 grand? Would that be two, three years? At least, because, so right now we have, we've been there. for the five years that we've lived here. We've saved the 50 and 5,

but we've been only paying $1,000 in rent. If we move out, which the landlord has said, we're either moving out or we're buying, anything else in the area is $1,800 to $2,500 in rent. We're renting from my employer, actually, so we've been getting a great deal with that. So if we, you know, if we move out,

It's kind of one of the other motivations for just buying it because of what rent is going to be if we just move out. Yeah, but rent is temporary, and this home is a long-term decision. So that's the piece I'm thinking through is 10 years from now. Are you going to be really glad you bought this thing? Or are you going to go, man, it probably wasn't the smartest decision at the time. We were kind of strong-armed into it with this ultimatum of either go rent for $1,800 or buy it. And so that's the part that I don't like doing this from a play. of sort of urgency.

I have to. I got to keep my boss happy. I've got to keep my, yeah, yeah. But it sounds like you guys, you've made the decision in your head and now, just like, was this, should we continue down this path? Yeah, yeah. What if you want?

What if we bought it thinking we would sell it in five to seven years? That's what I can't give you an answer on. If it was a traditional mobile home, I would say it's going to go down in value. because it's by itself on two and a half acres, there's a possibility in Toronto that the dirt appreciates pretty significantly. That's what you're hoping for in that scenario.

And that's just, there's a gamble there. I can't see a world where the home appreciates, but maybe the dirt will appreciate. But nobody can look in a crystal ball like that. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way,

you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at Ramsey Solutions.com slash agent. That's Ramsey Solutions.com slash a Today's scripture of the day is 1st Peter 5.8. Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy, the devil, prows around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Jordan Peter Peterson says, don't be a slave to stupid rules. Like your clothes have to match all the time, George.

How'd you know? Well, I can just see your clothes match. Fashion has rules. Mine don't always. They may be stupid rules. Jordan Peterson famously wears matching suits. Yeah, his suits are pretty fancy. Yeah. Let's go out to James in Boston.

Hey, James, what's up, man? Hey, how's it going? Doing all right, brother. How are you, man? Hey, doing pretty good. So me and my fiancé, we're both 20. We have one kid together right now. Did you say you're 20? Yes.

Okay. We both moved out when I was 16. She moved out when she was 17. Neither of us have parents behind us at this point. And we recently found out that I'm terminally ill. And I have like 10 to 12 years. That's the kind of estimate. And so...

What's the diagnosis, man? I make, I would do like the computer private, but it's more having to do with brain function. Okay. And so, yeah, so I makes it like about 30 an hour right now. She makes about 25 an hour. And so I guess my question is we both are going to school right now. I'm going to school to be a registered nurse. And with like 10 to 12 years left, I was wondering.

if it would be better for us to go out and take a loan out to get a house now, that's something that she has for when I'm gone, or wait a couple of years until we're both settled in our jobs. And I don't think the size of that a house would change much, but, you know, we can do a lot of work ourselves for fixing it up. But, yeah, I got to always be my question. So first off, man, you're pretty sober-minded for a 20-year-old with a young child and a fiance

and it's like to just tell you, man, I hate that you're in this position. I hate it for you, man. Yeah, me too. Yeah, well, yeah, especially. How long have you been wrestling with this diagnosis? For the past year now. Okay.

So it's set in. This is happening, right? Yeah. Yeah, no definitely. This isn't going to be any help at all, but can I just say, this. I have close friends who work in pretty advanced medicine right now, especially with this influx of wild new technology. And for whatever it's worth, it may be worth keeping a light on.

The story I'm being told, there's going to be some earth-shattering transformations in health technology over the next five to six years. And I'll be praying for you, man. And I hope that some of these discoveries and some of these new interventions may be able to support you and change your life, man. Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, I try and live my life. Like, there's going to be a cure and try and live each day to expose.

You know, that's all you can do. Love it. The last thing on earth I would do is sign up for a chain myself. to any sort of payment that I'm going to have to make. Because with a 10 to 12 year window, I'm sure they told you, that might be six years too. Might be five years also. Right? No, it's at least 10 years.

But, yeah, no more than 15. But, like, yeah, at least 10 years. I wouldn't recommend that. I love the idea of your wife going to get a, or your fiancé, about to be your wife. I love the idea of her getting a certification. like this. It's going to give her a career after you've passed. You entering into being an electrician right now. I mean, that's a seven-year process, isn't it, before you're fully licensed? Yeah, I have some scholarships to get some money off of that and also do a kind of fast-paced course.

How quickly could you get out into the field? I think four years, but I have a friend that's going to be able to help me get, he had electrical company, and he's going to help me get in there early. and do work for him. So here's what I want you to keep in mind. The single most precious resource you have right now is time. Right. And so if I'm looking at a three-year-old, who's about to be a four-year-old,

then I'm looking at one to two to three more years of having to work five million hours a week to try to get my journeyman's license to do this. And I'm making $30 an hour right now in my current job. and my wife's about to be a registered nurse and maybe we could invest in her so that she can go get her nurse practitioner degree or she can get her bachelor's in nursing.

Like that would be where I begin to look at what's the best thing I can do to provide. Is it also going to school just because I have some scholarship opportunities or am I going to be the greatest foundation in anchor so that she can go build an amazing life? So in the event, I'm not here. She is so set up to go do whatever she wants.

to do. Right. Yeah. But time. No, that's really what I want to do for her. Time is the thing. And so if time means you're going to be at home and you're going to be an anchored presence, you're making 30 bucks an hour, which is a great hourly wage, man. You're not going to, you know, you're not going to go buy a 17,000 square foot house with 30 bucks an hour. But man, that's a good wage, especially if you can support her. She can go get a nursing degree debt free. You can spend precious, precious time with this baby that's coming. that's where my head goes. George, what do you think?

Yeah. Do you guys have any debt currently? No, no debt. Do you have savings in the bank? Yeah, about 10 grand. Awesome. Well, I definitely would not go out and buy a house right now. It's not going to give you the stability you think

because that payment's going to stay that payment. And if something were to happen to you, well, now she's on the hook for that payment, otherwise she needs to sell this house. And so I would wait until you guys are financially ready to buy this house as if you didn't have this diagnosis and just save up a strong down payment. I mean, I'm from the Boston area.

I don't think you can get a house at 20 within a 30-mile radius of the city. Okay, so I don't live in Boston, but it's in a rural area. So what is the house going to cost? You can get some for 225 to 300 range. Okay. So that's still, even making $100K with rates right now,

you might still be looking at almost a six-figure down payment. to do this the right way, where it's 25% of your monthly take-home pay, and then I would work to pay this thing off the next 10 to 15 years. And so putting a huge down payment, buying a reasonable home, that's going to help you knock out the mortgage fast. That's the best thing you can do for her is leave her with no mortgage payment, no debt, a bunch of money in the bank. And in the meantime, invest for the future. Invest for that child, for college, and a 529 plan, invest in your own retirement that she will then inherit one day, and so you leave her in the best position possible to where she's not

scrambling. So what if in a couple of years she's going to be a registered nurse and she's making close a 50 an hour, could I, in these next two years, be saving, both of us saving up a bunch of cash to put down like whatever, 50 grand or something like that? Absolutely. Yeah, that would be my next goal for you guys, is every dollar is focused on that down payment fund and we're just putting in a high-yield savings account for the next, let's say two years. How much money could you guys sock away in two years doing this?

That's hard to say. I would say 25, or maybe 30. I would say 30 a year. So 15 grand a year, a little over $1,000 a month is what you guys could do right now? Yeah, probably. And also cash flow for nursing school? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's the plan.

And if it takes another year or two after that, to get the down payment once her incomes up, then I would do that because you're probably going to need at least 50, 60, 70 down on a $230,000 home in order to keep it at that 25% of take-home pay. So that's the math equation you're trying to solve for here. And so the baby steps still apply. The math is the math. I would have a will in place. I'm assuming you don't have term life insurance at the time of the diagnosis. Okay. And I'll tell you this, having sat with I have a question. I have a question about that.

Go real fast. I got tested without my legal name. Can I still get life insurance? I doubt it with the diagnosis. They're going to look up every single medical record you've ever had regardless. There would be no medical record. Well, I mean, but you're going to have to perjure yourself. You'd have to lie.

Yeah, it would be fraud at that point. They're going to ask you if you have any diagnosis, whatever. You can still contact them to see what your options are. There might be like a guaranteed issue policy. It's expensive. It helps. cover like part of the mortgage, but it's not going to be what you usually can get. We'll be thinking about your brother James. Thanks for the call, my man.

Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with a prince of peace, Christ Jesus.