The Ramsey Show - Stop Settling for a Life You Hate

Starting point is 00:00:02 Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broken. Common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life and your money from the Ramsey Network. Here in the Fair One's Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshot next to me. You already know the man, Dr. John Deloney, taking calls all a couple hours long here. Triple 885-225 is the number you need to dial.

Starting point is 00:00:32 We've got Lexi, who's in San Francisco, California. Hey, Lexi, what's going on, girl? Hi. Hi. Calling from California, I'm curious to get your recommendations on a housing finance-related question. Currently in a pretty major metropolitan area, my rent is over 50% of my take-home income. And so if I had the option to move home and not pay rent, but I would have to commute probably four hours round trip

Starting point is 00:01:07 times a week to get to, yeah. So gas prices in California and then of course like probably down the line more car related expenses. So curious what you all would make of that. What do you do for a living? I do communication.

Starting point is 00:01:27 So what if we said that neither of those are the solution? Because they're clearly not. You can't pay 50% and you can't have a four-hour commute. Neither of those are an option. Neither of those are a good life. Yeah. Anytime I feel backed into a corner,

Starting point is 00:01:40 I like to just for fun, put options 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, even if they're preposterous. But put them on the table to A, remind myself that there's always more options than bad A and bad B. But also it begins to expand my horizon a little bit. How much do you make in your job?

Starting point is 00:02:00 A little over 100,000 a year. Oh, gosh. And certainly, now we have another variable, certainly not for 100,000 are we driving a four-hour commute. So what can we, you said you're in communications? Yes. What can you, are there other jobs and communications that are all over the country that you could apply for? And if not, what is it specifically that you feel like is keeping you in the San Francisco area or in a high expense area? Yeah, I mean, it's so difficult, right?

Starting point is 00:02:31 because high cost of living, but typically higher wages than maybe other areas in California. Not necessarily. Not if the ratio doesn't pan out. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I'm feeling that definitely lately. And make no mistake. Like San Francisco's stunning. It's beautiful.

Starting point is 00:02:53 It's got cool things to do. All cool bands play there. Like it's a cool place to be. And it also costs a trillion dollars. Totally. Well, and that's where, like, quality of life if you can't afford any of the fun things. Exactly. It doesn't even matter. Or what is your 100,000? And, dude, I know there's something magic about saying the phrase, I make six figures. But if you make 100 grand and you can't afford to do anything, what's the difference in making 85 somewhere where you can enjoy your life, right?

Starting point is 00:03:30 Yeah. And you laid out the stakes perfectly. You said, okay, if I keep doing this and paying 50% rent, obviously, I mean, you already know you're not going to have the money. You're not going to have the margin to do anything that would make you a financially responsible adult, right? You won't be able to save money. You won't really be able to invest.

Starting point is 00:03:46 You won't be able to build wealth. You won't be able to buy real estate, right? Not on $100,000. And then if you say, well, if I do the other option and I do a four-hour commute, well, now I'm just burning myself out. I'm burning myself out, a job that maybe I started out, liking now I hate the job and I'm looking up two years from now going what was I thinking. And my mom's asking me when I'm going to be home. Right. So let's get ahead of that.

Starting point is 00:04:10 Seeing that, seeing that, seeing that, let's go, okay, what can we create that we look up two years from now and we think, I'm so glad that I made this change. Is it today, starting today, starting this weekend, we started putting lines in the water. We started making a list of 10 people we know around the country, letting them know, hey, I'm looking, I'm searching. I get on LinkedIn. I read Ken Coleman's book, find the work you're wired to do. I start all that tonight in this weekend. And then I start actually applying for jobs. I start sending out resumes. Maybe in the next couple of months you land something. And yeah, maybe it caused you to go to Denver or you go to Dallas or you go, gosh, to, you know, Butville, Tennessee, wherever you end up going,

Starting point is 00:04:51 you're there. And now you're making a living. You're making money. And all of that other stuff is gone now and you're just able to enjoy your money. You have a new community. I mean, I like this for you. Yeah. Well, I like to really say it. Yeah. Well, I'm curious to like, where would you put like retirement benefits into this cost analysis? Like if I have a pretty good 401k match right now, but maybe another job somewhere else didn't have any employer match.

Starting point is 00:05:23 Like again, you're creating two bad options for yourself and assuming you have to choose either one. Like there's, like, how good is your match? Is it 25%? No, no, not that much. Okay, how much is it? Four? Five percent. Okay, that's not a great match. That's a regular match.

Starting point is 00:05:42 It's just normal. You could find that probably anywhere. I'm not going to say that's standard because it's not standard, but there are plenty of companies who offer similar style benefits. And I would not, to John's point, let's not make that assumption. Let's make the assumption. There's other jobs out there based on what we know. There's other jobs out there that probably pay $100,000, that

Starting point is 00:06:00 probably have a 5% match. Let's just likely, right? So let's not assume anything because if we make assumptions based on our fears and the assumption is going to line up with our fears, let's actually go out there and get some facts that might contradict our fears and maybe prove them wrong. And then we go, oh, I was wrong all along. There's a lot of great options out here. And so Lexi, listen to Jade's wisdom here. Here's a great exercise for you. How old are you right now? Um, 27. Okay. So 27, let's imagine you at 30. Imagine how much you want to have in a savings account. Imagine how much in a dream world you'd like to have in retirement.

Starting point is 00:06:42 Imagine what you would like to be doing professionally. Right. Imagine if you have family or friends or community you'd like to be near or like one jump on a plane away. And then begin saying, okay, here's what I want my life to look like when I'm 30. Because my fear for you is, like, this is a. big deal, right? Quitting your job at 27 or finding a new job, that's a big deal. Moving in with your mom at 27, that's a big deal. All these things are big deals. And it's really easy when everything feels like a big deal to do nothing. And then you're going to blink and you're going to be 30

Starting point is 00:07:17 and you're going to be in the exact same situation just with your finances a little worse off, all to protect this magic thing called the six-figure job that actually cost you actually living your life. Right? And so, It might be that you find yourself in Houston, or you find yourself in Omaha, or you find yourself in Nevada, any number of other places making $100,000, $95,000, $125,000, and the cost of living allows you to actually live. Right? Yeah. And all of those are big, hard challenges. You hear me say this over and over, and I'm kind of beating a dead horse here, but every decision you have in front of you is hard, right?

Starting point is 00:08:00 moving away from families hard, quitting your job's hard, getting a new job is hard, moving states is hard. All these are hard. Choose the hard path that's going to get you where you want to be when you're 30. I think that's the path. I definitely think that's the path. And I think if you start today, like I said, you're going to look up and it's going to be a wonderful outcome. Before you leave, we will make sure to give you, Ken Coleman's find the work you're wired to do. That's our gift to you.

Starting point is 00:08:23 It's an assessment. It's going to help you figure out the things that you're good at. And then it's going to help you find career fields that are associated with. the things that you're good at and that really give you the juice to quote Ken. And I think that's really going to help you. And we'll give you from paycheck to purpose. Throw that in there too. He doesn't mind. If you've ever been really sick or been the caregiver to somebody who was, you know how broken the health care system can be. Man, nothing is easy. Finding the right doctor, sitting on hold for hours, or gosh, trying to understand co-pays and treatment plans and weird

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Starting point is 00:10:01 They'll fight the system so you don't have to. Go to solacehealth.com slash Ramsey or click the link in the description. Checking your eligibility only takes about two minutes. That's S-O-L-A-C-E. health.com slash Ramsey. You must be 18 or older, and remember, advocates do not provide medical or legal advice. Well, let's head back to the phone lines, shall we? We have Brooklyn who's in Phoenix, Arizona. Hey, Brooklyn. What's going on? Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. My question for you guys is, do you have any advice for how my husband and I can kind of keep ourselves financially safe? We're in an uncomfortable, like, intertwined financial situation with his parents. They continue to make just egregiously terrible decisions with their money, which ends up affecting us.

Starting point is 00:11:05 We're trying to rebuild and move forward and we're in financial peace with our church. But their bad decisions keep kind of affecting us. How? Yeah. How is that happening. Yeah. Yeah. So a couple of years back, um,

Starting point is 00:11:22 We co-signed their mortgage. Oh, there you go. I know. I know. What in the world caused that chain of events? That's crazy work. I don't know if you guys recall. There were a couple years back, there was a really weird housing bubble that happened.

Starting point is 00:11:37 Our state was really severely affected. And so overnight, we had just hundreds of people coming in from California paying all cash for houses. Yeah, that happened a lot of places. It's not a housing bubble. It's just a, in fact, it's the opposite. It was, it made, the housing inventory was basically nil, right? But that doesn't explain you co-signing. Yeah, my, my in-law's were in a rental that they'd been in forever.

Starting point is 00:12:01 They got a 45-day notice on their door because they got sold to someone for, okay. They couldn't afford, and there were no rental homes available to get into. Okay. And so we kind of exhausted every option we could see. And the only other kind of thing that looked like that would work would be to get them into a mortgage. and get them into a home. How old are they?

Starting point is 00:12:24 They're in their late 50s, early 60s. Okay, so there's already a dynamic that I hear here that I think you're hip to this, otherwise you wouldn't be calling. There's a lot of we talking about them and their marriage and their life. And somehow you guys have like sucked that into your marriage and your life, and it's a four-wheel we instead of them and you guys. Yeah. So.

Starting point is 00:12:50 Yeah. Or imagine, imagine what would you trade to have had a really hard conversation two to three to four years ago when they had to move into a two-bedroom apartment versus the conversation you're all going to have to have now, right? Yeah. Like a bad, a hard conversation was going to happen, but it's going to get worse. Yeah. Yeah. We've had some really bad conversations and they don't end productively. I bet.

Starting point is 00:13:16 Well, and I think the time for talking quite honestly. is over. The only thing you and your husband can do is control what you're going to do next. Yeah. And so have you gotten out of this situation? Have you said, guys, you've got to refinance and get us off this loan? I don't care that the interest rates are what they are. If that means you have to rent, you cannot keep us caught up in this. Yeah. We have had that conversation. They are not able to refinance us off because their credit and right which means you guys have to sell this house. Can you sell the house?

Starting point is 00:13:53 You got to sell it. Why not? They flat out will not. We continue to revisit this conversation probably on a monthly basis but it usually ends in like a cussing, screaming, shouting. And were they like that before? Were they like, were they that like combative

Starting point is 00:14:09 like that before? They can be about things that upset them. I think I My husband and I did not fully understand how they perceive money. Now we see like where their mindset is coming from. And so it's not a reasonable mindset. And that's our issue. So have you said to them, okay, let's take money out of it.

Starting point is 00:14:34 I know it's very hard to take money out of this equation. But have you spoken to them on a relationship, father, daughter, in-law, just trying to do life together and said, hey, here's what I'm most afraid of. This has already changed our relationship. And I don't know if you've noticed it, but gosh, we don't interact the same. When we end up on calls, it ends up we get belligerent. We don't want to spend Thanksgiving together anymore.

Starting point is 00:15:01 That bothers me because when I think about a family, I want in-laws that I can talk to on the phone. I want my husband to feel like his mom and dad have a great, right? Have you talked to them on that level and said, I just don't like what it's doing relationally? And can you truthfully say that you like what this is doing to us and it's worth staying in this house? Can you really say that? Because it's not worth it for me. Have you talked to them on that level? I don't think we've come at it from that kind of an angle.

Starting point is 00:15:28 I can definitely try that. Because that's the truth. I mean, obviously, I mean, we can name a million reasons why financially it's bad for both parties. But what I'm really seeing is the deterioration of you guys' relationship. And I don't know if you have kids yet, but that's certainly going to affect grandkids. It's certainly a good. Do you see what I'm saying? My guest.

Starting point is 00:15:52 The kids actually is a major factor for us because they help watch our children. And my oldest has really severe special needs. And so they're the only people that we can trust to take care of him. We don't have anyone else. And so that's that was what prompted us to do it in the first place. We were like, okay, well, this is like an investment in child care. These are the people that, like, you know, when you have a special needs kid, Russ, it is, like, really important because it's really exhausting.

Starting point is 00:16:19 And they're the only people that we can trust. Like, my family doesn't help. So are they, are they, well, and I guess I want to challenge you on the word trust. Because maybe, maybe they're really good caring for your child, which is amazing. But you don't trust them. Yeah, but no, we don't. And that's definitely affected my. I mean, like you said, it's affected everything.

Starting point is 00:16:44 So let's get down to the brass tax. I can definitely try that. Are they making their mortgage note every month? No. Two years ago, I came home to a wage garnishment notice for my husband because they had not been paying. Yeah, that was very upsetting. We cleaned up the mess. Said you absolutely cannot be doing this.

Starting point is 00:17:04 Like, if you're going to miss a payment, we need to know we will cover the payment. Like, do not do this to us again. Are you guys homeowners? Do you and your husband own a home? We do. Yes. We own a home. And so we told them this.

Starting point is 00:17:16 They were like, oh, of course, of course, of course, whatever. And we ran my husband's credit last month, and there's two more. So they're going to keep doing it. How are you doing financially? Like, what's your margin look like? What's your debt look like? We're doing okay. We have joined financial peace because we came to the epiphany of we're trying to save them

Starting point is 00:17:35 and we can't keep burning ourselves out saving them. So we're doing okay. Tell me real numbers. What babysat up are you on? We're on babysat too, so we're paying off debt. We're getting, we have a little bit of a car loan left. We've got some student loans. We need to knock out. And then we can move forward. Our mortgage is only, I think it's 23 and a half percent of our take home pay. Yeah, because that's the main thing, Brooklyn. And you already know this, but I'm saying it for anybody listening to this, there is, you're stuck, right? You did this act. And you know what it is now. You're regretful of it. You're like, I've learned my lesson.

Starting point is 00:18:14 But the hard part is now you're seeing. Yes, man. You can't get back in the time machine. And now you're in it. And so you've got to be doing the baby steps, which you are doing. Because your only hope in this is to hope for the day that they see the light. But until then, you've got to be able to reach over when they don't pay the note. You've got to be able to reach over it to protect your own self.

Starting point is 00:18:37 Do you see what I'm saying? And so by you, you're doing it. the right thing now, walking the baby steps, getting out of this car loan, getting out of this student loan, and just having three to six months, if I was in your shoes, I might have six to eight months knowing that they have a mortgage. How much is their mortgage? Their mortgage is about $1,700 a month. Their HOA payment is $315. Oh, Lord. So between the two, they're two grand a month. So if I were you, I'd probably always keep $2,000 in an account somewhere that's just in law

Starting point is 00:19:08 mistakes. You know what? In law mistakes. I would probably put a $2,000. Again, I'm projecting onto you in your margin. Okay, thank you. But I would put $2,000 in an account

Starting point is 00:19:21 every month, make it a recurring bill. Oh, no, that sounds like a lot, John. You probably can't do that. Yeah, that's too much. But you think they're going to keep doing it, right? Right, but what you can do is if you have it one time in that account, so let's say we're going into October, let's say for October you say I'm going to put the line item there 2000 a month it's sitting there

Starting point is 00:19:40 coming February if they don't pay you can reach into that pay the rent and then the next month now you got to put it back on the budget again $2,000 so it's kind of like kind of like what we would say a peaks and valleys account so you're funding it whenever you use it you have to refund it right away and that's how this works and for anybody listening gosh just remember co-signing guys it is only there because the bank knows that person cannot pay. They will not pay. They cannot afford it. And they don't want to take the risk, so neither should you.

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Starting point is 00:22:44 Okay, how are you doing? We're doing good. How can we help? Well, I got in some financial trouble. in debt and due to some unforeseen circumstances. I had to make some large purchases, repayments, whatever, stuff like that. And it just got out of control.

Starting point is 00:23:05 Now I have, you know, I had one card, and I tried to get out of debt by doing one of those no interest things for the next month of months. And, you know, car got stolen. And, you know, it was like a country song. So, um, I wanted to. and I know this is kind of a no-no, but I wanted to get a helac to consolidate debt.

Starting point is 00:23:29 Now, I wouldn't have normally suggested it, but we have, my wife and I have so much equity in our house. I wanted to borrow about 7.5% of that, just to give myself some breathing room. The intention is to sell the house in the spring anywhere. Yeah, yeah. But just, I mean, I'm like rob and feet of the pay Paul. it's creating a lot of distress.

Starting point is 00:23:54 Of course. And she, you know, she's an avid listener to some of these financial podcasts. I believe Gors is one of them. And she will, she wouldn't budge on it. So,

Starting point is 00:24:05 no way, you can do a go to a credit counselor. I said, that'll affect my credit. You know what I mean? You know, I want to do this. Well, your credit's going to be affected.

Starting point is 00:24:12 I mean, you're in a way, but let me tell you something that really bothers me about this for you. if I have, I'm just going to paint you this picture, if I have saved up in a piggy bank $7,000. And it's my piggy bank. I saved the money. I did what it took for that money to be there.

Starting point is 00:24:32 And then somebody came up to me and said, I will let you borrow your own money at 6.42%. I would look at them like they're crazy. What do you mean you're going to charge me to borrow my own money? Right? Yeah. That's what you're doing.

Starting point is 00:24:48 doing with this home equity line. You're saying I have this equity that I did the work to have. I made my payments on time. I put the down payment. I held the, I held the asset. It's my money. And you want me to borrow it from myself and pay you 6.42 percent or whatever it is. That's a little, that's really not what's happening, though. First of all, you got, you know, I'm looking at, you know, user is debt, you know, like, I don't even know, 25, 3, 3,000. percent, I'm sorry, interest rates. I could cut it down to, you know, he locked it, 8%. And, and honestly, you know, I say I own my own house. It's borrowed money, Mark. It's borrowed. No, the bank owns my house, though. I'm paying them back for the house. And now I'm telling them, hey, you know what? I need

Starting point is 00:25:39 to borrow some of that money back. Yes, and you have to pay it back. You have to pay it back. When you sell the house, you don't get to have that money. You've given it away. How much debt do you have, Mark? I got about $25,000. Okay. If I get it, and the helix are from, you can't get it for, you have to get it for a certain amount. That's right. That's right, right.

Starting point is 00:26:01 So, so. Here's the thing. We get over $500,000 in equity. You know what I mean? That's great, but it's unrealized. And you have a $25,000 problem. How much money do you make a year? You and your wife combined?

Starting point is 00:26:14 Well, we kind of keep our bills separate. So I'm going to, uh, I'm going to, uh, I'm just, um, just kind of mine is I make just under 90. Okay. And how come you and your wife have chosen to do life together, but you don't combine your money together? Because some people are unrealistic about what you can spend. You know, what takes priority?

Starting point is 00:26:38 You know, is it going to be a, you know, a pretty dish or is it going to be, you know. So you don't trust that she, you don't trust that she has the self-control to stick to a budget. Is that what you're saying? Oh, she does now. Yeah, we separated a couple of years ago with the debts, and she is spot on. She's doing good. Okay, good.

Starting point is 00:26:57 So how much margin do you, is weird to even talk, like how much margin do you have, like, from your bills that you have to pay every month? Oh, I am. My debt's a, whatever, income ratio is like, you know, flatlines, you know, after the car got stolen you know they didn't you know I loved having no car payment it was the best thing ever

Starting point is 00:27:24 and then I walk out to my driveway and my car's gone so I mean it's up being you know what I have a car note you know I mean and that's one of the things No no no here's a problem brother you're not owning any of this

Starting point is 00:27:35 no no of course not I'm paying other people to I know to have it I know but what I'm saying is you're not owning you're you didn't magically get a car note you got your car stolen which is awful.

Starting point is 00:27:50 It's a violation of your personal privacy and it took away your actual transportation. And then you as a grown man went and chose not to go get a $3,000 car to get you to and from. You chose to go take out a car note. It didn't happen to you. Wait a minute.

Starting point is 00:28:05 You make it sound so easy. Listen, you know, I don't know if you've been out there, but I had a $3,000 car for many years. Brother, you're talking to folks who were out. Mark, you're talking to. to two people who were all the way out in the street when it comes to how much time did you spend fixing your car?

Starting point is 00:28:24 You know what I mean? Not that much. And let's be fair. Let's be fair for a second. 3,000. I made that number up by the way. It could have been eight or ten. Right.

Starting point is 00:28:31 It could have been eight or nine, right? We could have gone a little bit higher. But the point that he's making is you made the choice to sign for debt. You made the choice to sign for a certain amount of debt. Because let's be fair. How much is your car pay? How much is your car? What do you owe?

Starting point is 00:28:46 What do I owe? That's a good question. I owe 14. Okay. So that's kind of the point that John was making. Could you have gotten an eight or a 10? Yes, you could have. Could we have done this for less? That was the point. So what we're trying to say here is we can't, part of getting ahead with money, and you're talking to somebody here, Mark, who had close to half a million of consumer debt, okay? And I had six figures. Like, we've been way more underwater than 25 grand, brother. We've been where you are and then some. And we both, both of us, while we were on the air on this show, had colleagues making fun of us because we drove such old used cars, both of us. Okay, so we're in this with you. Okay, it's not us talking against you, but you hear how animated I'm getting because you're about to go put your house on the block. And if you take out a $50,000 heel lock, because that's the minimum they're going to do it, to preserve your precious, like, debt to debt score, right? And you do it to give yourself some breathing room.

Starting point is 00:29:47 and you miss it, they take the whole thing. You get what I'm saying? How would I miss it? How would I miss it? If I'm able to just barely pay high interest. No, wait, wait. Let me finish this. All right, go for it.

Starting point is 00:30:00 All right. So I got this userous interest, right? And I walked right into that, right? Yep. And what I'm going to, I'm paying, you know, X amount of dollars. And if I can wrap it all up into a, you know, a smaller amount. Mark, I'm going to cut you off. What I'm saying is, I'm going to,

Starting point is 00:30:17 No, no, no, because here's the thing. Mark, you don't want to know our opinion. You're one stolen car away from this all happening again. Mark is going to do, Mark is going to go ahead and take the heat lock. Because Mark, you didn't call to get our advice. You called to tell us what you're going to do. And that's your choice to do that. If Dave were on the line, he would have hung up on you a long time ago. But I wanted to just hear what you were going to say.

Starting point is 00:30:37 You're going to do what you're going to do because if you call the show and you're not open, just a little bit. If you call the show like this, we can't help you. We can't. And I can explain all day and John can explain all day. We have nothing to gain from this. So if we're helping you, it's from a pure point. We don't have anything to help. You're the one with $25,000 of debt. We're trying to reduce the amount of risk and stress in your life because we care about you. I don't care about winning an argument. My friend, I care about you going away in peace and you having a situation that's going to beget peace in your life. switching one debt for another type of debt is never going to do it. You cannot pay off debt by using debt.

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Starting point is 00:32:35 All you need is the idea. Shopify handles the rest. Start your free trial at Shopify.com slash Ramsey. That's Shopify.com slash Ramsey. Shopify.com slash Ramsey. Well, if you're new to the Ramsey show, we just want to say welcome. We're glad that you're here. And you might notice that we kind of answer every question through a series of principles.

Starting point is 00:33:09 And if you've kind of wondered about that and weren't quite sure what it was, yeah, we have a set of principles that we follow around here. It's pretty clear, you know, live on less than you make, you know. To-da. Avoid debt. If you have debt, pay it off. And then from there on, a debt-free lifestyle. We're real big components on working together with your spouse.

Starting point is 00:33:30 So these are just kind of like some of the values that we have around money. gods and grand ma's ways of handling money. And then out of that, we do have a financial plan. It's called the baby steps. There's seven of them. And you'll hear us talk about those seven baby steps quite a bit. Our last caller, he didn't know about those. But we want to make sure that you understand that that's kind of the framework that we're teaching here.

Starting point is 00:33:51 And the point of that, the whole point of that, guys, is we want you to have as peaceful of an experience with money as possible. We're trying to eliminate risk in your life. And the truth is, John, most of us went through. we became adults and we never really were given an education on how to handle money. Most of us learned our education from the media. We learned it from our family, whether it was dysfunctional or whether it was healthy. We still learned something about money.

Starting point is 00:34:17 We learned it based off of what we saw our friends doing, what we saw people around us doing. We didn't have a formal education. So a lot of folks that call in, they're calling in because of mistakes that they now realize they've made based on that education. And that's totally cool. We're not judging anybody. We're not throwing shade at anybody. But what we do want is to now come here and let us teach you.

Starting point is 00:34:37 Let us help you learn not just, hey, they said it, so I'm going to do it. But we want to actually teach you why a car lease is bad, why debt is detrimental. Why is a zero credit score just as good as a high credit score? We want to teach you that so that you can understand it and actually take that knowledge and learn. And we do that through the seven baby steps. That's all I want to say. Good call. All right.

Starting point is 00:34:59 Let's move on. Tori, who's in Houston, Texas. is up next. Hey, Tori. How can we help? Hi. So I've recently come into settlement money about $150,000. And I'm torn as to what to do with it. On one hand, I'm about to be married. And my fiance is coming into the marriage with some debt. And I would like to pay off his debt. So we kind of start fresh. That was kind of the initial plan. He didn't ask me to do that. be real clear. No one's asked me to do anything with this money. But in the interim, my parents have hit yet another financial hardship in their life. There have been very, very poor financial decisions

Starting point is 00:35:44 and I've put them in the situation. And so I'm forced with the choice of do I help my parents stay in their home or do I start our new life off debt-free? Why are your parents going to lose their home? Because they cannot make the payments anymore. Are they in a position to sell the home? Is there any equity in this thing? There is some equity in this home, and that is one option that we're looking at. But regardless, it would not be enough to get them started elsewhere. So I'm at a half a dozen one hand six and the other where it's either I have to help with the mortgage or I have to help put them up somewhere else. Sure.

Starting point is 00:36:31 How old are they? And they're 70s. Okay. So let's put some real numbers around this and let's see what's possible because I agree with what you're saying. A lot of times a situation with the parents is not just as easy as don't get involved, right? No, you're involved. You're involved.

Starting point is 00:36:49 Yeah, I'm involved 100%. And especially if you do have the money to be involved, let's see if you can be. So we know you've got the settlement for 150. what's your normal income? What do you take home every month? So I bring in about $60,000 right now. It will increase. I'm a therapist, but I'm also in process of licensure. So in a year, year and a half, I'll meet my hours and I will give a substantial. I'll almost double that salary. Way to go, Tori. Things are actually helping people. Yeah. And do you have any debt? I do not right now. Great. Hard debt, silver money paid off my debt. Okay. Okay, good. And so after you

Starting point is 00:37:28 paid off your debt. Now you've got the 150 left, or was that? Correct. Okay. And do you have, okay, so out of the 150, here's what we must do. We need to set aside three to six months of expenses. And have you done that yet? I do have some, probably not quite as much, but close. So let's say 25,000. Is that fair? Okay. So let's set 25,000 away in your emergency fund. That leaves us with 125. And then when are you getting married? When's the actual wedding? The end of the year, so December. Okay. And is he saving?

Starting point is 00:38:03 Who's paying for the wedding? We are paying for it together. I've taken care of the smaller things because I make less than he does. And then he's taken care of the bulk of it. We are having a very, very small wedding. What's the budget? $10,000. Nice, Tori.

Starting point is 00:38:19 Courthouse. 10,000. And you guys are just, if you have it split equally or it's kind of like we're just paying for what we can, And what portion of that $10,000 do you think will fall on you? Probably, I don't know, 30%. Okay. So are we thinking that that's coming, is the $3,000 coming out of cash flow or do you think that's coming out of the $150?

Starting point is 00:38:41 I've been paying things as I go. Okay. So wedding is, we don't need to factor that into the... I don't think we need to factor the wedding in. Okay. And how much is his debt? So he has about, I think about $70,000 in debt. Okay.

Starting point is 00:38:57 What's he going to be doing for a living? He is a lawyer. A lawyer, okay. Okay, good. And what's his annual salary? Around 220. 220. Excellent.

Starting point is 00:39:08 I love hearing that. I love that. Okay, so I like the idea if you, it sounds like you guys are on one page about how you want to handle the money. So let's say you get married at the end of the year. You immediately together pay off the $70,000. From there, what I would think to do, is let's start investing some money, right?

Starting point is 00:39:30 Let's start, because I think cash flow-wise, you're going to be able to help out your mom. You making the 60, him making 220. I think cash flow-wise, you should be able to reach over and do that, right? Because what's on a month where they really need a bunch of help, how much money is that for you? They probably need, I don't know, about 2,000, 2,500 with medical expenses, etc. I'm thinking.

Starting point is 00:39:54 Per month? We have looked at some of their, but yeah, per month. Meanwhile, your take home is going to be somewhere between $17,000, $18,000 before investing? Okay. I will say both of us do have retirement accounts. Okay. Right. And my point is what you can do with the remainder of the settlement, you can either put that towards a down payment on a house.

Starting point is 00:40:17 We didn't talk about that. You can plop that into a brokerage account. You can invest that money because I don't think that you need that specific. money per se to help out your parents because you're not giving them a lump sum. Really what you're doing is saying, I'm going to get mom and dad, I'm agreeing to pad your budget in this way. This is what we can afford to do. And I'm not even saying you have to do the full 2000. I'm just saying that seems to be the amount they need. If you decide 1,000 is good and I'm going to put my siblings on the hook for the rest, right? It's up to you to decide what's going to work well for you to discuss it with your soon-to-be

Starting point is 00:40:52 husband too, because this is going to affect him. But do you see what I'm saying? I think. I think you guys are in a wonderful position where if you want to help, you can. And honestly, I think you should. But I got the impression you need to, they need a bail out though, right? Are they way underwater on their house? They do kind of need a bail out. Yeah. How much? Losing the childhood home. How much? It's close to the same amount. I forget the exact numbers, but it's close to the same amount that his debt would be. Oh, 70,000? voice as one or the other, yeah. They're that far behind on the mortgage, or that just clears the mortgage completely? That clears everything. Okay. So that's two different numbers. How far are they behind?

Starting point is 00:41:34 I don't know that they're behind yet, but he had been on disability, and so their monthly income is fixing to get cut drastically. Is he going to get social security? Yes, they do get social security. So let's sit down with them this weekend and let's plan out what their budget is. let's say, okay, we're not behind on the mortgage or let's find that if they are. We are behind any payments. That's the piece of homework. Sit down with mom and dad.

Starting point is 00:41:58 Figure out if they're behind or not. And then do a budget with them and then figure out what is it realistically that you guys need every month after Social Security after whatever other money they have coming in to make things work, not to pay off their mortgage, but just to keep things going. And then if you have any siblings, you can take that information to your siblings and say, here's what's going on with mom and dad, and then you guys can sit around. And what I would do is I would say, this is none of our responsibilities. We don't have to get involved, but if you would like to, here's what's going on with mom and dad.

Starting point is 00:42:31 Here's what me and Bob, your fiancé, plan to do. We just want to create some transparency here and go from there. If you're living like no one else with your money, you're probably being smart with your entertainment choices too. And the truth is, finding entertainment that's high quality and aligns with your value. is not easy. That's where Angel comes in. They make movies that check all the boxes, values driven, quality, and, as I'll get to in a minute, affordable. And it's why I'm excited to see Angel's latest movie, Angel and the Badman opening October 9th. It's a classic Western with a big name cast. You got Tommy Lee Jones, Zachary Levi, Neil McDonough. And it's all about redemption,

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Starting point is 00:43:58 Limited time offer, visit angel.com slash Ramsey for details. Welcome back to the Ramsey's show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. We're going to go right back to the phone lines because we have Lynette, who's in Battle Creek, Michigan on the line. Hey, Lynette, John and I are here. How can we help today? Hi, I hope you guys are doing well. I just have a quick question. I am a stay-at-home mom works two jobs. We have one kid. and I recently got a job on my laptop. I can get $20 an hour.

Starting point is 00:44:34 I can work whenever I want. But I'm struggling trying to find a good balance in how much would I be working and how much should I be with my kid. What is a good hourly per week balance? How much debt do you have? We have about 15.5,000. Okay, 15,500.

Starting point is 00:44:56 And if you combine I'm making up a number here. If you work 20 hours in a week and your husband's working these two jobs, how long's it going to take you to pay that off? Gosh, it depends. I know if we're from six and 12 months. It depends on what his overtime looks like.

Starting point is 00:45:13 Okay. We should have about 3,000 paid office in the next week. Wonderful. Oh, wow. So here's Lynette. How old's your baby? He is eight months. Eight months.

Starting point is 00:45:26 Jay, hit me with a stick if I'm wrong here, but I, Lynette, this isn't the season for balance. Baby step two is about doing what you have to do to survive so that you can get you and your husband and this precious little baby's head above water for good. And so expect to expect everything to feel chaotic while y'all are essentially like in the old days,

Starting point is 00:45:55 30 years ago, they would run around on stage, like a gazelle, like you call it gazelle like intensity, because gazelle is getting chased by a lion and it's running for its life. And so that sort of intensity, which is, I'm going to sprint. I'm going to work 20 hours a week, 30 hour, 40, I'm going to work, I'm going to be so tired. I can't, I don't know what day it is. And my husband's going to be so tired. He didn't know what day it is and good on him for getting two jobs and working overtime and doing all that also. And we're going to get through this in five months or six months and be done forever.

Starting point is 00:46:24 Right? And so that, I would like your energy pushed that way than trying to find this mythical, um, Instagrammy nonsense called balance. It just doesn't exist. It's, it's, it's, you enter into seasons. And if you and your husband intentionally say, hey, we're heading into a winter season, that means it's going to be uncomfortable. We're going to be cold.

Starting point is 00:46:42 We've got to wear jackets inside. All that. Then just no spring is coming. Summer's coming, right? But we're going to enter into, into winter together. We know we're going to be comfortable. We're going to be exhausted. We know we have to be intentional about our marriage. We're going to be holding this baby and just drooling. We're so tired. And it's only going to last five months and

Starting point is 00:47:01 then we're done. Okay. Do you get what I'm saying? Yes, I do. And can I tell you this? You're a good mom. You're a good mom. I do my best. No, no, no, no, no. Don't shirk that off. You're a good mom. You're a good mom. Like you're trying to make it work all the way around. And I know you're y'all are figuring out how to do life with a new baby and all that and you're eight months out and it's just like you don't feel like you're winning anywhere you're a good mom okay and if you work really hard and you're not fully present eyes open you know like that's okay your baby's going to benefit for the next 17 and a half years because of the peace in your home because you all get to decide what y'all do next yeah i i think john is totally right and i'll put even a little semicolon next to that and say you know, as you're working until your eyes are like spinning like that little emoji when they're just like the little circles going in. You also have the ability, Lynette, to go, because I trust you, if you're calling, you've got some good sense. So I trust you to go, if I hit that point where I'm like, I need to pull back a little bit.

Starting point is 00:48:09 Close the laptop, yeah. You can. You are allowed, when you have a life and a family, you're allowed to figure out what your values are in a season. And to John's point, if you go, you know what, we're going to sprint and we're going to sprint until we can't sprint. And then when we can't sprint, we're going to realign and go, hey, we did that for three or four months. Let's take a quick breather and then let's get back at, you're allowed to do that. If you're looking and go, man, my baby's eight months, I feel like I'm not putting her to bed. I feel like I'm not present. I'm not here.

Starting point is 00:48:35 I don't like the way that feels. I'd like to pull back just a little and that's only going to affect my debt payoff, you know, date by one month. Hey, like, yes. Do that all day long. Do that all day long. So remember when we were in like grammar school and the teacher with, say, this is on your honor. Like you grade your own paper on your honor. That's what this is. This is on your honor. I think you know you're going to figure out what that line is of I know I'm

Starting point is 00:48:59 doing my best and that line of, I know I could do a little bit more. I think you know, you're going to know that. I see. Okay. So no balance. Balance doesn't exist. Work. Yeah. I mean. On your honor. Work and love your husband recklessly and let him love you. you wildly. And also take care of this baby. It's all of it. It's just chaos. Right? That's just what it is. It's just chaos. Okay.

Starting point is 00:49:29 And like Jade says, keep close attention to how you're feeling, when you start to fall off, when you need to just close the laptop, when you and your husband, here's the thing, do everything intentionally. Yes. Yes. You just don't want it to happen to you. You want to always remain in the driver's seat, and that might mean, hey, I it's not that I wish I was playing with with on the floor a little bit more it's I'm running myself

Starting point is 00:49:55 into the ground yeah right and I've been there you've been there we've all been there and I've got to pull back some great awesome totally wait one more month take two more months to pay this thing off he's working he's working two jobs working overtime good man on him like man that's awesome just do everything intentionally yeah I agree with that wholeheartedly the intentional play is what it is because and I just want to call this out because I know there's mom's listening or even dad's listening that are like, hey, what about, the truth is when you do have a newborn, you do have this feeling of like, they're only going to be seven months one time. They're only going to be eight months old, one time. Like, you don't want to miss it. Guilt factory. It's a guilt factory. And even if you're not

Starting point is 00:50:30 feeling guilt, you're just like, this is important to me. I want to be there. I don't want to miss it. And you're allowed, you're allowed to say that. Just know that when you make those choices, there's always a tradeoff. And it can be a positive or negative. It just depends on how you view it. If you've said, this is the most important thing to me and you stand on business, then just understand the tradeoff would be your your timeline is going to be longer. And you've said by choosing one, by saying yes to one thing, you've said no or at least hold on to another thing. And that's, you're an adult, you have the right to do that. Just know what you're saying. And to John's point, be intentional. And it's always been my experience that if I'm entering into

Starting point is 00:51:07 a wild season with work, with family, with kids, with financial goals or whatever, like when me and my wife sit down, I remember saying, think, I'm going to have to miss some games this spring so that I never have to miss a game ever again. And you're like, I will make that, I will take that all the time. Yeah, right. And instead of missing a few games every season indefinitely, because I've got to balance this, make this payment, go over it, right? So I'm going to miss a lot of games. But I'm going to miss all the practices and I'll try to come into the games, but I'm going to miss them so that I'm going to do it right now so that, whom, off to the future. Yeah. And it's all a trade.

Starting point is 00:51:46 And being specific about that and being intentional about that to the extent that we're running numbers on it. We're looking at it and saying, okay, what does it mean if I work 20 hours and that feels great for the values I have? What does that mean versus working 40 hours? Versus 30 hours. Yes. It's a dollar amount. It's a math problem. This is a money show.

Starting point is 00:52:08 So we're telling you, actually run out the numbers. Don't just guess and say, I'll feel better. And if I do it like this, that's fine. and we don't need to guess. We have too many calculators and too many things at our phone, you know, at our fingertips that we can actually run the numbers and decide how do we feel about this? Does this feel all right? If not, that's taking too long.

Starting point is 00:52:28 Now let's readjust and look at that again. So that's all you have to do. Be intentional. Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz. When it comes to life insurance, most people fall into one of two camps, the ones who make a plan to protect their family, and the ones who hope everything will just work out. But hope isn't a financial plan.

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Starting point is 00:54:40 Go to Ramsey Solutions.com or you can click the link in the description. Or if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Yeah, click the, my bad, click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All righty, let's go to Don in San Francisco, California. Hey, Don, what's up? Hi, how's it going? I appreciate you guys having me on. Yeah, no problem. I was hoping to talk through a vehicle decision. I'm looking at purchasing a new car. And my biggest concern is just making sure I'm not creeping into the lifestyle inflation with because it's a big purchase first like I guess big purchase I've made so wanted to hopefully talk it through. I love that.

Starting point is 00:55:21 What are you thinking about getting? Well, originally, this is where the lifestyle inflation comes in. Originally was looking at like a Rav 4, 4-runner vibe, used 2015, you know, 100,000 miles on it. and that price was pretty similar to model Y. So now it kind of set on a used 2023 Model Y, which is running about like 30 to 35. Okay. That's like all three of the cars you named are great cars.

Starting point is 00:55:51 Yeah, and that's what we were looking for. But there's reliability. There are three different like lifestyles, right? You'd be like a four-runner like bro out in the woods or a rev4 fam or like, nah, we're going to be like the Campbells. We're going to just cruise around in the Model Y. So all three those are great cars. So I'm guessing you have the cash saved or tell me where you are financially?

Starting point is 00:56:17 Yeah, so cash is saved. I have it in a high yield right now. And originally we were looking at a budget of like 20K and for a full self-driving car. Still all-wheel drive, still can go camping and it still can throw the surfboards on top. it kind of seemed like a no-brainer. From a long-term perspective, like we're young in our careers, we want to have kids at some point. It could be a family car, that type of thing.

Starting point is 00:56:43 Okay. It sounds like you're struggling with identity here. Like, if you got the money for it and you don't owe anybody any money, and it's not more than half of you and your spouses take home income, which doesn't sound like it is. Like, what are you really wrestling with? Just that that's a lot of money to spend on a thing? Exactly. Like I was raised very frugally and I took it from my dad really well. He raised this amazingly. He did really well. He came from, you know, poor Italian immigrants, but he did really well. And that frugalness, I think, passed on me the most out of my brothers. And like, I'm renting my dad Chevy Volt. And I'm like super cautious about how much electricity I use. I don't use the AC in the car because it's too, it uses too much gas. Like that type of.

Starting point is 00:57:33 thing that we need to set you free a little bit. Exactly. So how much money do you and your spouse make together? Together, about 300, probably. Stop it. Stop it, Dawn. 300K? I'm also, we also, we've been working for three years.

Starting point is 00:57:55 She's been working for one year. So I'm new to the whole money thing. How old are you guys? I'm 25. She's 22. for. Okay. So is there, it's one thing to say, hey, I have these habits from, you know, growing up. And I get it. Sometimes we find ourselves doing things that I'm like, man, am I doing this because I want to do this and I, and I believe in doing this, or am I just doing it because I have the habit of doing it from my parents' home, right? Like, I think we've all run into those moments. My question is, is it more about that or is it more about a fear of I'm going to

Starting point is 00:58:27 mess this all up? I think it's that, yeah, especially our goals that we have and like, wanting to retire or be work optional by 40, like all of that, spending 30K now, how much does that really affect me in the next 10th? Listen, could be a lot. I think that, and this might be a little mechanical, but it's helped me a lot, and I have a feeling it could help you a lot, too. I think that when we have fears like that, that are really kind of like, oh, gosh, I'm afraid I'm going to mess all this up.

Starting point is 00:58:57 What really, really helps, and I'll send you a copy of my book, what no one tells you about money, but what really helps is to kind of put. put legs on that and say, if I'm afraid of the future, if I'm afraid of messing it up, truthfully, like spend some time. I don't know if you take quiet time or journal time, but take some time and truly write out what it is that you're afraid that you're going to do. If I buy this car, what am I afraid that's going to happen? If we make that purchase, what do I think? And challenge yourself to be specific.

Starting point is 00:59:23 Because when it's kind of just ambiguous, I kind of find, John, that those types of fears, they don't really have any legs to it. If it's just like, I'm afraid of and messing everything up, If you really stop and do the math, you're like, no, I'm not. But the ones that are very specific, I'm afraid if I use $30,000 for this car, we won't have enough in our emergency fund. Well, that makes sense. So let's test it. Now we can actually test it against something and see if it's concrete, like if it's a concrete fear. And so for you, what I would really hate is for you to work so hard and have such a blessing of your income in front of you and never truly be able to enjoy it.

Starting point is 00:59:59 Wouldn't that suck? So let's take the time. kind of do the work behind this and say, you know what, let me just see. Let me write down the things, get my wife with me. And let's test it and let's put some facts. John, this is your thing. Facts are your friends. So let's put some facts to it and go, gosh, if I spend this $30,000, run the numbers and see how is it going to affect your retirement? I can tell you just by looking it's not. If you guys are investing 15%, and pretty soon you pay off your mortgage, which you will, because you make a lot of money and then you keep investing more and more. You're going to have millions of dollars. Can we agree with that?

Starting point is 01:00:33 Yeah. I mean, especially, we've already saved like 150 this year. Yes. And so if you look at this, and here's the part that I always want you to remember this forever, if you look and you say, hey, for us, we're going to have $8 million if we keep going this route. You have to tell yourself that it's okay to do things that aren't going to continue to invest in that. It's okay to go on a trip. That's not an investment. It's okay to buy a car. That's not an investment. I'm okay with $8 million or I'm okay with the $3 million, right? And Don, let me tell you this. I don't want to make this call about me,

Starting point is 01:01:10 but I grew up in the home of a policeman who then became a minister and money was really tight for us growing up. And he grew up in the home of a man who was in the Great Depression who straightened nails out. Like when my grandfather passed away, there was coffee cans full of nails. I, before I came to Ramsey, when I was working in education and universities,

Starting point is 01:01:30 I recognized that I was in different rooms and different positions financially than how I grew up and how even my grandfather was. And I realized I had developed an identity that those kind of people buy cars. Those kind of people buy those kind of shoes. You get what I'm saying? And it can be jarring to your identity when you realize, oh, maybe I'm those people too. And it really caused me to back down because I realized I had developed a bias against people. I was judging people, not even thinking about it. And a gift that Dave gave me just personally behind closed doors because of his background, right?

Starting point is 01:02:13 He grew up where money was really, really tight and he lost everything and then he's built himself back up. Is to pay close attention to ratios. So if you made $30,000 a year, a $30,000 car is 100%, right? if you make $300,000 a year and you buy a $30,000 car, it's 10%. Right? And so it's the same as if you made $30,000 bucks and you and you bought a $3,000 car.

Starting point is 01:02:36 It's just, it's leaning up against those ratios and making sure you're staying, like Jane said, you're staying with your values. You give a lot, you save a lot, right? Leaning on those ratios has helped me tremendously and it's really caused me to transform how I judge

Starting point is 01:02:52 the rest of the world. You get what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. I'm responsible for my identity. Me and my wife are responsible for who we are going to be as a couple, as a family, and that's how we navigate the world. Other people don't get a vote. And so I'm going to give you some homework, Don. Your homework is to do what John and I are saying.

Starting point is 01:03:12 Write down those fears and challenge them. And then I want you to get on the Ramsey Solutions.com, and I want you to pull up our retirement calculator. I have it here. I put in your numbers. I think I heard you said you were 25. and so from age 25 to age 65, I think I heard you say you already have $150,000 saved. Let's say if you started saving 15% of your income, you're making $300,000, $300,000, 15% is about $3,700 a month.

Starting point is 01:03:36 If you do that at an average annualized rate of 10%, which is what the stock market has done, S&P 500 has done that the last 30 years, my friend, $31 million is what you have waiting for you. Can we agree that that's enough for you to buy? That's if you don't get a raise. That's if you never get a raise. You're good. If you want to free up margin in your budget, one of the first things you should do

Starting point is 01:04:11 is take a hard look at your monthly bills because every dollar you overpay is another dollar you don't have for reaching your financial goals. And overpaying for your phone bill, well, that makes zero cents. And it's why I recommend Boost Mobile. Their unlimited plan is just $25 a month forever.

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Starting point is 01:05:09 $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan. All right. Our Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is your free AI money tool that provides personalized money answers based on Ramsey principles. So visit Ramsey Solutions.com slash ask Ramsey. All right, today's question comes from Andrea in Washington. Andrea writes, how should fund money work in marriage? My husband and I each get $400 a month to spend guilt-free. I think unused money should go toward our shared goals,

Starting point is 01:05:58 but he wants to save his for bigger purchases. Ooh, so it's not guilt-free. Is it okay for fun money to accumulate for one spouse to spend without the other's agreement, or should larger purchases be a joint decision? I would love to us to answer at the same time because I want to know if we think the same thing or not. Okay. So is it okay for fun money to accumulate to spend for larger purchases or should it go on?

Starting point is 01:06:27 That's the question. All right. We're going to answer on three. Can it accumulate? One, two, three. Yes. Okay. Same team.

Starting point is 01:06:34 100%. Here's the thing. I've worked at multiple places where the budget cycle was. whatever you don't spend in your budget and when I was working at universities I had billions of different budgets from all over the place that I was managing whatever you didn't spend

Starting point is 01:06:51 there was a great chance it was going to get taken Oh, you don't use it, you lose it? That's right. So at the end of the year they're going to say oh, your department didn't need this much money so we're going to take it. So the incentive was spend every penny

Starting point is 01:07:02 which is a terrible fiscal strategy. Oh, you're like desperate. Right. And so it doesn't promote management. It doesn't promote stewardship. It promotes spend, spend, spend. spend, spend. And so I love the idea

Starting point is 01:07:14 that there's an incentive to get something down the road. And by the way, Andrea, I want you to be careful, and Jade again, hit me with a stick if I'm wrong. You're conflating two things here. One is should we each be able to spend

Starting point is 01:07:30 our own fun money as however we want? Because that's how we set it up, right? We get to make the rules in our house and we made up this rule. You spend your $400, I'll spend my $400. Or, and this is where you can inflate it should larger purchases be a joint decision. That's where I think you're, you're double-dip in here. If he wants to put $400 in an account for a year and save up 12 times four, right? And buy a Ninja Turtle's costume? I was thinking new guitar, but whatever.

Starting point is 01:08:01 You do you, Jay. That's what my husband did. He bought like a real replica from the movie in the 90s that we all like. Anyway. Do it what everyone do. But yeah, like. And then y'all want to save for a car or a couch or y'all want to have a boat for the family on the weekends. Those are two different conversations to me. Yes, I agree. So save up, yes. And encourage him to save up his money. That's his, I hate that.

Starting point is 01:08:26 But like, the fun money that he's been allocated, yes, save it up, man. Yes. And can we die? I think you and I briefly had this conversation on another episode, but I want to bring it up again. I think, and for women to, but specifically. Sam and I had this exact conversation one time. I had not thought about, I'm a spender, so I'm like, I rarely hold money over from one month to another.

Starting point is 01:08:52 I spend it. I do approximately zero times. Yeah. But my husband one day, he was like, I finally saved up my fund money long enough to buy because like I said, he had his eye on this cost, this Ninja Turtles thing, well, anyway. And he looked at me, he was like, yeah, it costs X amount of dollars. and I was like, that's so fun. Like, I'm glad you did that.

Starting point is 01:09:13 And he was like, really? I thought you were going to think it was stupid and how could I spend that money? I'm like, it's your money. It's your fun money. And that was when we realized, oh, like, yeah, saving it up is a great thing to do. And I had never thought to even do that.

Starting point is 01:09:24 So I learned my lesson. I was like, okay, this is how you get what you really want. But it points to a bigger conversation. I love that you pointed this out. And this is not really a money thing. This is just kind of a relational thing. but I love, I feel like so much of what guys are doing, it's career driven, it's got to be about money, it's got to be about career, it's got to be about providing, it's got to be about this or that.

Starting point is 01:09:49 Man, I love to see a guy spend money on a hobby and just do something because they enjoy doing it. It pours back into them and you need to let them do that sometimes. Not only let them, but like I've talked about the show, like I spend a lot of time over at the local comedy club over here down the street. And somebody asked my wife, like, does it bother you? he goes down there once a week. And she's like, no, because I get a better version of him. He's out there playing with his friends. He's telling jokes that I'm glad he's not telling here.

Starting point is 01:10:16 He's laughing. He's being goofy with his buddies. And I get a better husband when he gets home. And so there's oftentimes, I'm like, now I'm going to stay home tonight. She's like, no. Go out. Yeah, go do your thing. Go play music with your friends.

Starting point is 01:10:29 And, man, I love that encouragement. Yes. So don't tie that back to. That's like if she said, oh, you're going out to do comedy. but make sure if you better be getting a paycheck to bring up, right? Yeah. Now it's not fun anymore. Now I'm working.

Starting point is 01:10:42 Yeah, now you're working. It's the same thing with this fun of me, like this fun money. Don't tie it back to the goals and what we have to be doing because if you've allotted it there, that means you have it to a lot. It's just there for fun. And that goes for her too. And she's got to be able to do things that build her back up. Right. And Andrea, if you're mad that you like to burn through your money like Jade and I do and your husband is disciplined like Jade's husband and my wife are,

Starting point is 01:11:06 you can change. You can start saving your money. Or just keep enjoying it month by month. That's awesome. But no, I'm full support of him saving up his 400. Save it up for 30 years and go buy a jet. I don't know what the math on that is. But like save your money up, man.

Starting point is 01:11:22 Okay. So then the next question comes is let's pretend he does save it up for a long time. Let's say he saves it up and he's got like $6 or $7,000. Should she know, like be privy to the amount of money that he has, like where it is all that kind of stuff. Because I do feel like there, I do feel like there should maintain a level of transparency. Like, Sam and I are just the type of couple,

Starting point is 01:11:45 he's going to say to me, man, I saved my fund money. I got $3,000. I'm going to be like, wow, you have $3,000. Like, that's the way we are. I don't. All of ours is in the same account. So like if you're, if you're squirreling away in your own secret.

Starting point is 01:11:57 He puts it in like a gun safe. Secret fund money account. Oh, he takes in cash. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I'm just for no secrets. I'm for no secrets. I'm for no secrets.

Starting point is 01:12:06 myself, I suppose, but yeah. I think there is, to her point, probably a level where you still want transparency because I also want to know that that person's not stocking up money for gambling or like something that's like nefarious. But also you trust Sam enough and I trust my wife enough and she trusts me enough that if I saved fund money for seven months and I had X,000 dollars and suddenly there was an emergency in our home and we needed that money, of course I'm grabbing that. Yeah. Right?

Starting point is 01:12:39 I'm not going to be like, nope, nope, that's my guitar fun. For sure, for sure. Like we can super glue the kids teeth back in.

Starting point is 01:12:44 That's my play money. Like, of course I would. Yeah, there's a point that, yeah. And so like, but yeah, Andrea,

Starting point is 01:12:51 I love the idea of you not scorekeeping and instead of just flipping this whole thing over and celebrating the crap out of your husband. I love this. It's a very, very good thing. So fun money,

Starting point is 01:13:01 let's just review the teaching here. Fun money is a part of the budget. Generally, after baby step two, after baby step three. If you're in baby step two, baby step three, no fun. The point is we want you to cut back your budget as much as you can so that you can put that money towards debt. But one of the great things about paying off your debt

Starting point is 01:13:19 and accomplishing three to six months of expenses is now, now there's margin back in your life for some of the things that you enjoy. Fund money is a huge thing, guys, and there's no set number amount that we say it's this percent or it's that percent. Again, it's one of those things. You're on your honor. Yeah, your honor. please for the love of God

Starting point is 01:13:38 don't call it allowance we hate that word it is not an allowance it is fun money put your name on the budget next to the money Bob's money Sarah's money that's all it is and by the way nothing ruins fun like somebody being like I can't believe you spent that on your hair

Starting point is 01:13:56 or a massage or a guitar like dude let the people you love have the things they love my wife doesn't understand half the things I love but she loves that I love loves things, right? And vice versa. Yep. Like, I love that she loves the things she loves so much. I don't get

Starting point is 01:14:11 most of them, but I love that she's into them that much. Yes. And I'm going to celebrate that. And don't you think that the fun money amounts should be the same for both spouse? No. You don't? Husband gets double. Oh, of course. Okay, I was about to say, you said hit you with a stick. I'm playing.

Starting point is 01:14:27 I'm a reach for my stick. Yeah, I think that it should be... Divide it up, man. Yeah, it should be equal, not based on who earns what, because that would be detrimental to your house. No, no, no, no, no, y'all both earn the combination of what comes in that thing. That's right. If you're shopping online and these days, everybody does, data brokers are out there right now buying and selling your personal information,

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Starting point is 01:16:02 and protect your personal info, so the game of whackamole can finally stop. Go to join DeleteMe.com slash Rams and you'll get 20% off an annual plan. That's join J-O-I-N, delete me.com slash Ramsey, or click the link in the description. Well, we always love when you guys interact with the comments. Every once in a while.

Starting point is 01:16:33 Do we? Do we always love it? I mean, I'll slide in there every once in a while and see what folks are saying. You're out of your mind. Here's the thing. If you're going to comment, try to be on the right side of history here and tell us the good things.

Starting point is 01:16:45 Nothing mad, nothing ugly. But if you love the episode, the whole point is if you like what you hear, get in the comments, talk about it. If you have questions, pop those in there. We do look at them from time to time. When I say we, I'm talking about us. There's always folks on the team who are looking at those things. And so, you know, let us know if there's an episode that you like particularly, share it with someone. The whole point is interact with the show.

Starting point is 01:17:08 That's what we're trying to tell you to do. Share an episode, like, subscribe, follow, comment, all of that good stuff. It's good for what's good for the goose is good for the game. I don't even know what that means. Me neither, but I'm going to rock with it, and we're going to go to Phil, who's in New York City, New York. Hey, Phil. How you doing? Hi, guys.

Starting point is 01:17:27 First time call or a long-time listener, thanks for taking my call. Dude, glad you're here, brother. If I just start with the question, it's not going to make any sense. So I would just like to give a little bit of context, and hopefully that'll help you guys with some guidance. Perfect. So I've spent the majority of my adult life trying to create. create the best possible version of myself for a family that I plan to have but don't have yet. And I'm about 10 months away from graduating school and an entirely different career from what

Starting point is 01:17:58 I originally had. And I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around what my life looks like after I graduate when I can't seem to find a significant other to share these accomplishments with. So I guess my question for the purpose of this phone call is how can I stop feeling like I'm running out of time and how can I shift my sense of purpose or rewire my brain towards enjoying a life after I graduate for myself rather than for a family that I hope to have one day, but it doesn't seem like it's happening anytime soon. Man, can I just, I just want to celebrate you for even asking this question because I, I talked to tons of men online and behind closed doors and like this is haunting people.

Starting point is 01:18:43 And so you haven't encouraged to just put it out on the table is, is impressive. brother okay um how old are you uh i'm 27 27 and tell me about this um and i'm doing this for a reason tell me about the picture you had in your mind of of phil at 28 what did it look like uh ideally it would have been i'm would be in a career that i actually like and enjoy that's fulfilling there's a lot of room for growth uh it comes with enough money to provide a comfortable life or both myself and a family. So ideally by 28, I would have liked to have been engaged and were married and, you know, start working towards buying the house and having the children and all that good stuff. Okay. And tell me about this career change you're making. It sounds

Starting point is 01:19:33 like you went to school and started a career and realized you didn't like it. And so then you went and got reeducated, retrained to do something else? So quite the contrary. Okay. I came from a single father household and he had never graduated high school. So as far as what I would be doing after high school, there was like minimal guidance. So I just went right to work out of school. Okay. Kind of leveled up, learned a little bit of different things, became a truck driver. And then at 23, decided that it wasn't for me.

Starting point is 01:20:02 So I got a local driving job that was willing to work with a college schedule. And over the last four years, I've kind of just been paying to go to school, got an associate's degree, which opened up the door for X-ray school, and I'm about 10 months away from finishing that up. Outstanding. Excellent, brother. So it sounds like the path forward for you, A, is to stay on the path that you're on. You're doing great work, man. I hear me say I'm proud of you.

Starting point is 01:20:32 Hear me say I would, the job I have right now, this is going to sound bananas, the job I have right now did not exist when I was 27. There was no such thing. Dave was doing a radio show. There was no such thing as a podcast or YouTube. didn't exist. Okay. So you're not behind the eight ball in any shape, form, or fashion.

Starting point is 01:20:55 I know it might feel like that, but you're not. Okay. And I know it's easy for me to say, and that's not going to change the way you feel. I just want to give you some data, okay? Some facts. Okay. You're doing the, I mean, bro, you are, you are one of those men that, like, I want to shake your hand because you're changing your family tree.

Starting point is 01:21:11 You took the lessons of hard work from your father. You went to work straight out of high school. And then you've done nothing but continued to, move up, improve yourself, work hard, and that's impressive. I also think many of us, young men, old men, we were not taught how to grieve. And what I mean by that is you had a picture for how your life was going to be at 28, 27, and that picture's not going to come true. And it's right to have a season of being down about it.

Starting point is 01:21:43 And I know all the Instagram things say, you've got to crush it and forget your feelings. That's stupid. it's it's just that's a recipe for rage and adult male temper tantrums so i want to give you permission to be bummed out that you haven't found that person yet okay it's all good and part of um the the words emotional maturity are having huge feelings being sad being frustrated being heartbroken and getting up the next day and going to do the next right thing okay so it's both and. Now, can I challenge you on something? Yeah, absolutely. And I'm saying this because I've been, I just finished a two and a half, two year, two and a half year project on answering the question,

Starting point is 01:22:30 is marriage still worth it? And if it is, how do you do it? Right. And that meant I sat with experts. That meant I was looking at the dating market. I was looking at all the data across, across tons of different different fields. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to continue and finish this degree and I want you to go get a great job as an x-ray guy and a radiologist or whatever it is and do that with excellence.

Starting point is 01:22:56 And I want you to commit to only being in your apartment to sleep. I want you to join leagues. I want you to put yourself out there where you can meet people, where you can engage in people, you can have human experiences with people. You can laugh. You can listen to the same music.

Starting point is 01:23:14 You can catch somebody's eye across the room. You can say, hi, my name is so-and-so, and I think you're pretty, right? I want you to put yourself out in the world because I think ultimately, not ultimate, I don't think this. The data says this. The single most important decision you make is going to be who you marry. And so I'm going to make that. I'm going to make that my chief investment, right? And the only way to do that is.

Starting point is 01:23:39 put yourself out there. So go be busy. I would totally. You got what I'm saying? Totally agree with that. Yeah, absolutely. It's just, you know, there's only so much time in a day. Totally. I joke that there's not enough time in a day. And it's just, I guess. And you're in the grind right now. There's plenty of fish in the sea,

Starting point is 01:23:57 but I'm in the period where I'm kind of in my own pond, just making sure I'm, you know, the right, in the right frame of life before I enter that, as you would say, season of life. Yeah, but here's the thing, dude. I am a I'm 17 different versions of away from who I was at 27.

Starting point is 01:24:17 So you trying to like create this marableized like statue of yourself, this perfect version of yourself so then you can go be married. Man, meet somebody and grow together. And I'm telling you, I think you're worth a catch. Jade, you can disagree with me. I think you're, you're exactly what the, what the data tells me is that guys who are graduating, guys who have job prospects, guys guys, guys, who are good men who treat women with dignity and respect, who are kind, that those are the folks that are good catches. Now you've solved all those things. That's who you are. Now you've got to go put yourself in a position. You've got to get out of your own pond. And that means you're going to be

Starting point is 01:24:54 tired. That means you're going to be annoyed. That means you're going to experience rejection. And it's going to be worth it. Okay. Is that fair? Jade, I ball hog this whole call. What do you think? I think that it was yours to ball hog. I think that you could uniquely speak to his experience. and I think that what you said is right on. I'm team Phil, man. I am too. I think, Phil, you're probably a fabulous catch. You clearly, you care about what's going on

Starting point is 01:25:23 and you're locked in to yourself and you're locked into how you're feeling and you're locked into what you want to create. And I think that that's half the battle for a lot of folks as being really intentional about what they want their life to look like. I appreciate that. I look up to you and the entire Ramsey team,

Starting point is 01:25:39 so that's why I was like, you know what? I think I'm at a point in my life where it's worth having a phone call. Yeah. Well, if nothing else, hang up this phone and courage that Jade and I see not only a good man, but we see a great man. And we see a man with a lot of potential. And don't rob your future spouse from yourself because you sat in your apartment. Get out there, join some leagues, join some chess clubs or whatever. Go join the local church. Go do whatever you got to do to put yourself in position to meet real, get off the apps, meet real people in real life. And you're a catch, brother.

Starting point is 01:26:11 Welcome back to the Ramsey show here in the Fair One's Credit Union Studio. I'm Jade next to me, Dr. John Deloney. And on the line up next is Laura, who's in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Hey, Laura, how can we help today? Hey, so thank you for taking my call firstly. My husband and I, we're at the tail end of Baby Step 3, and we're also castoring his master's degree, which is going to be a master's in clinical counseling.

Starting point is 01:26:53 So he wants to be like a licensed therapist. Nice. So, but that's not what I have a question on. The question is to do with like my parents. So this happened this week. They, it just seemed like when it rained, it poured literally.

Starting point is 01:27:08 My parents had a roof week from some heavy rain that came in from that hurricane. And then their car broke down. And they, they did ask me for money. And, and I want to help them, you know, like we don't have an abundance.

Starting point is 01:27:21 There's a lot of things going on. with the masters that we're trying to cash flow and we're at the tail end of baby step three as well. But, you know, in the process of like kind of asking them like, hey, what's going on? I found out that they're also like really behind on bills and taxes. And like there's there's like debts. I just didn't know what was going on. And the thing is like things like this that have kind of happened before and other family members like have helped them like including my brother, but they kind of end up.

Starting point is 01:27:53 like back to square one. Like the spending is just like, it's just out of hand or just like really silly purchases. How old are they? And I told my parents, I'm like, look, mom, dad, like, like, I want to help you guys. I don't want to lend it to you. I want to give it to you because, like, I don't want them to be like, I don't want to hold a grudge against my parents. I love my parents.

Starting point is 01:28:12 Like, and my parents love me as well. Yeah. They're just really bad at money. Like, I only want to help them. Like, if they want to, like, sit down with me. And then if we can just go, go over their finances, because I have this. thinking, feeling that there's much more than they're actually telling me. How old are they?

Starting point is 01:28:28 And they just don't want to do it. And they, they like, they don't. Laura, Laura, Laura, Laura, Laura, Laura. How old are they? How old are they? They're 64 and 63. And like one is retired and the other one's still working. What did they do for work before they retired?

Starting point is 01:28:46 And what does the other one do now still working? So my dad is a teacher and he was a teacher. and so he's getting his like pension from like the retirement system from Texas. Okay. So I'm in Philadelphia. They're in Texas. And then my mom does something where like she like works for the government like with like Medicaid. Like she helps people like deal with like their accounts and like dealing issues and doctor issues.

Starting point is 01:29:11 Do you have any idea what they make every month? Do you have any idea? You may not. Yeah. Yeah. So they make $4,200 a month after taxes and after their insurance is taken out. Okay, good. So I know that.

Starting point is 01:29:24 Okay. Yeah. So after tax and after insurance, so we know they're insured. That's great. 4200. That's like normal. Like 50. It's normal, normal life here in America, a little under normal.

Starting point is 01:29:37 But I think you have to re-imagine the word help because they don't want your help. They want you to bail them out. Yeah. They want your money. They don't want your help. You get what I'm saying? Right. And those are two different things.

Starting point is 01:29:52 And didn't you say, I think I heard you say that your siblings have given them money and build them out before, but they continue to kind of just spend and spend and spend. Did I hear that? Yes. Yes. That's the part I want, that's the part I want to hang out on because I don't, what I don't want you to hear me say here is don't help your parents. That's not what I want to hear you to hear me say. What I want you to hear me say is if we've tried something and we, it didn't work, and then we did the same thing again. and it didn't work, and then we did it again, and it didn't work. Would you agree with me that it probably is not a good strategy to do the same thing again and hope for a different result? Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, my brother is like, he's very generous, so he's, and he's also, like, I think he's a little bit more kinder than me when I can be a little, a little, kind of bit more, like,

Starting point is 01:30:42 this is not a question of generosity nor kindness. It's neither, neither of the, yes. Because it might be that he's more of a pushover than you are, people pleaser than you are, right? maybe well he'll say yes and I'll say like well show me the money and then I want to help the question at hand is sustainability the question at hand is sustainability because what we've seen it has nothing to do with who's good who's bad who's this it's sustainability because of what we've seen is if I give them the money it's not helping so I can't sustain giving them this money month after month year after year because there's no habit that's changing and the truth is I

Starting point is 01:31:20 I don't know, but I'm going, okay, $4,200, we should be able to do something here and with their ages. If you had told me, hey, they're 80. My grandma doesn't, you know, my mom doesn't get around well. She's in a wheelchair. Like all the, there's so many factors that if you had said them, I would have gone, you got to help. You got to step in. Let's try to figure out a way to do this. But in this case, Laura, I'm looking at this going, okay, they're young. One of them is still working. They have a pension. There's money coming in. I'm way more interested. in you sitting down with them. If they'll have it, they may not. No money on the table for you yet, or maybe at all. But coming in and just saying, let's help you with a budget, mom, dad,

Starting point is 01:32:01 I can't give you any money today, but I'd love to help you make this $4,200 work. I'd love to help you get ahead. I've been doing this Ramsey thing. It's really helped us. I'd love to show you what it is that we're doing if you're interested. And if they say, no, we're not interested, that is your indicator, Laura, that you can't give them money. You can't. Okay. And I always look at trend lines. Okay. And if you look at these bailouts that your siblings have given them,

Starting point is 01:32:29 their financial situation has gotten progressively worse. It's not a matter of just, it's not a matter of just holding steady or, man, we had a leaky roof. Of course you're going to help your parents out. Of course. Yes. Or, hey, we don't have enough money for groceries. We got a systemic issue.

Starting point is 01:32:47 Let's sit down and figure that out. but they just are they're getting worse and worse and worse and now they're behind and now they don't have taxes and now and now and now and now right so it's a it's a it's a it's a mess and it's just getting worse i i think it's important are you're married is that right yeah i married okay i think it's important for you and your spouse to sit down and map out here is a dollar amount we would be willing to because i want you to go into a conversation with your parents with information like with where your boundaries already are right and if you choose to have a and by the way no parent likes to have money conversations with their kids no they're going to hate this they might not even do it right yeah if you don't want to give us the money then you just get that you want to lecture us i don't want to hear another that may be what they choose to do now if you look at this and you say let's let's let's create a scenario here let's say you sit down with them and you realize gosh without like just them making their minimum

Starting point is 01:33:43 payments and just like at a bare-bones budget, man, they're in the red, $500, man, they're like seriously in the red. Now we can have a couple of conversations. We can say, okay, mom, dad, somebody's got to go out and earn this extra $500. Now we can say, here are ways to do it. We can help brainstorm ways around that. Let's pretend you looked and you saw an IRS debt. And you and your husband said, you know, they have an IRS debt of $2,500.

Starting point is 01:34:09 We want to take care of that. If you wanted to do that, you could. but just know there's a track record there. They'll know we don't have to pay our taxes next year because daughter's going to come bail us out again. So that's all we're saying to you. I'm not going to sit up here and tell you you can't help your own flesh and blood.

Starting point is 01:34:29 But I am going to do it with a sustainable plan. I want to make sure my giving is a net positive and a benefit, not going to make the situation worse. Yeah, absolutely. And so this is the hard thing. It's like the third or fourth call. the sandwich, man. We're caught in the middle. It's like we're trying to get our own money together. We got kids that are going off to college and then mom and dad are like, hey, by the way, we need

Starting point is 01:34:51 you too. And it is like, it's a messy moment. It's not fun being the turkey. Buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit Ramsey Solutions.com slash agent. Ramsey Solutions.com slash agent. Okay, so John, you and I were talking during the break.

Starting point is 01:35:57 I feel like we're getting more and more calls, sandwich generation, more and more calls about how do I navigate this? I'm here. I'm trying to do the Ramsey baby steps. Some of us are further along that train than others. but the reality remains the same. I'm in the stage where I'm trying to provide for my family. I'm trying to do the right thing for my family,

Starting point is 01:36:16 like my nuclear family in my home. But then I've got my mom and dad who, for whatever reason, they're on the struggle bus and they need my help too. And John, I'm just to stay it straight up right here. I have been guilty of being like, hey, that's not on you. You don't have to worry about that. That's on them. And more and more, because I've been in it with you guys,

Starting point is 01:36:38 more and more I'm like, man, if you can help, if you can take the high road, if you can put the water under the bridge, if you have the money, if you can figure out something that's sustainable, if you can do it with the right boundaries, man, if you can go on and help because you're the one that obviously you got to sleep at night. It's almost sometimes more draining taking on the request or it can be more draining living with, watching what's going on because it's not no one wants to watch someone you love struggle like let's just be real it's in any way shape or form if if this lady the last lady i think her name was laura that called it's hard for her to see oh my gosh my parents have irs debt it's hard for them to pay the rent yes they're overspending yes they're being irresponsible but gosh they don't get it yet and i think that's what i'm getting at is all of us hit our aha moment at a different time i hit mine when I was 23, you hit yours when you moved into the dorms. I'm still hitting it. You're still hitting it.

Starting point is 01:37:41 Like everybody has that moment where they run into reality and they're like, something's got to change. Some people never have it. Some people never hit that moment. And I kind of just, I think I'm just at this stage of life where I'm like, so much of our lives that happen is a result of grace. It's somebody going, man, I don't like that for you. I'm going to just do this. And it's out of just grace and mercy that you get it. And I can look at many things in my life where I'm like, hey, that's really, that was just a lot of grace there and that was a lot of mercy there. I just want to offer it. Like if I can, I want to give it. I don't know. I have a thousand thoughts on this and we were talking in the break. I think at the end of the day,

Starting point is 01:38:24 one of the only things in the world I can control is what kind of man I want to be when I look myself in the bathroom mirror when no one else is in there. Who are you? and for me, I'm not going to let my parents be in the street, right? And they're in a different situation, so it's fine. It's not like it's impending. So I know that about myself. Right. And so whether it's my responsibility, whether it's my job, or whether it's, that's what

Starting point is 01:38:48 you all get, I know as this is the kind of guy I am. Who do I want to be? Right. And so I can choose to enter into that with bitterness, with anger, with frustration, with whatever, or I can walk into that with, this is who I'm choosing to be. Right. And I'll also say to the folks who are listening, I'll look directly into the camera on this, if you, all of us, every person at some point in their life, not at some point, multiple times over the course of your life, will have to turn to somebody and say, please help. Yes.

Starting point is 01:39:21 On a million different things. You'll say that to a dentist, to a doctor, to a teacher, to a supervisor, a boss or whatever, a neighbor, please help. That's the human condition. And that's what we're, all like that's what relationships are for yes but if you call your kids if you're an a if you found yourself in a situation you call your kids and say i need help you can't also bring the ego that was the parent you were the rulemaker you were 20 30 40 years ago and it makes that sort of interaction really complicated when i say hey i have this problem this irs dead i haven't paid my rent I haven't done this. I've been spending like crazy here. I just got a new car over here.

Starting point is 01:40:06 I need $10,000. And you're acting ugly. And then your spouse, and then your kids say, let's sit down and figure out sustainability. And you say, oh, so you don't love me?

Starting point is 01:40:15 Right. Once you shut your mouth and give me $10,000. That ain't going to fly. You can't bring that ego to an open hand, hey, can you please help? Right. And so if you're asking for support and help, which I encourage everybody to do who needs it,

Starting point is 01:40:27 I ask for help every minute of my life, right? You can't also bring the ego that is, and I'm going to force you to, I'm going to demand you help me in the way that I want to be helped, which is, I just want your resources, I don't want you to talk to me, I don't care about sustainability. I'll call you next time I need something from you. And that's the part that's... You can't control it as the kid, but I just want to speak to anybody asking for help in that situation. You're right. That's the part, and I think for select folks, that's the part that's difficult for them is, is that whatever the relationship dynamic that it is, and don't get me wrong. And no, John's not saying this, I'm not saying, it's not like, a give a drunk a drink a thing. Like there, there was an enabling pattern that was with that last call that was like, man, you do in some cases have to be careful because enabling will hurt the other person. Makes it worse. It will make it worse. So we're not talking about enabling. We're not talking about giving a drunk or drink. We're talking about stages where it's like, man, I'm looking at this and I see that there's a very low likely possibility that they're going

Starting point is 01:41:27 to make this work. And the truth is, they're not going anywhere that you know of. And so this is probably, if you don't step in, it could deteriorate even more. And now you're in for more money later on when they're 70 or 80. So there's just kind of like, it's a mess. It's a mess. And that's kind of the part I think we in the sandwich generation have to think about is like you said, relationships are messy, man. People come in with their attitudes and with their whatever's. Their egos and their traumas and all of it, yeah. And so do you. And so at the end of the day, you're looking at yourself and you're going, okay, how do I want to feel when I go to bed at night?

Starting point is 01:42:05 How do I want to look at myself in the mirror? And what can I actually do that's sustainable, that's in line with the budget, that I can continue with, and that will respect both of us. Because I also think it's a respect thing. Kind of like what we've said with kids, if you step in every time, you're saying there's no possible way you can do this for yourself. And no possible you'll ever be able to do it. Yeah. And the same thing with parents. I'm looking at 60-year-olds and I'm like, yo, like, you can go go get a job.

Starting point is 01:42:34 I know two six-year-olds who were retired teachers who looked at their financial situation and they went back and started over and drew some retirement while also being a first-year-teacher again. Yes. And that was the math problem in front of them. Yes. And so that's different than looking at two 82-year-olds as like, hey, they can't even go greet at Walmart at this paper. You know, so all that to say. Whenever I'm faced with a mess, a relational mess, I think it's important to pause and make sure I'm who I want to be heading into that.

Starting point is 01:43:03 Who do I want to be here? And that's what we can control. How we talk to people, how we respect them, how we've done our homework and say, here's how much I can't even help, period. Yeah, because sometimes you just can't, you don't have it. Right. Sometimes you don't have it, yeah. And sometimes you do have it and you have to ask yourself, I'm I the kind of guy that's going to try to make a point here or am I the kind of guy who's, I'm not going to make, I'm not going to make. I'm not going to make a point.

Starting point is 01:43:25 I don't have an ego on this thing. Yeah. And also, I don't want to, I don't want to wrap up my inability to draw boundaries and say no, under the guise of help when it's going to end up hurting somebody more than it actually helps. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And I think that we have to be careful.

Starting point is 01:43:40 Gosh, we could talk about this for a long time. But I think we need to think about it in the way of enabling. Is it going to hurt them? Not do they deserve this, if that makes sense. Because nobody, like, deserve is such a. table. Yeah. It's like, you know, because well, people call on all the time.

Starting point is 01:43:57 It's like, oh, my family raised me and they did this for me. So they deserve for me to, right? And it's like, that's the word. And I'm like, stay away from the word deserve. Let's look at is this going to help or hurt? Because could it truly help them? Or if we do this, do we really think that it can hurt them? Are they spending at such a level that it is just destruction?

Starting point is 01:44:17 Yeah. For yourself, are you going to borrow money? We've taken that call multiple times where someone's borrowing a bunch of money to bail out somebody and all you're doing is perpetuating that cycle so you're going to have to reach over to your kids one day and say hey I had to bail out grandmother and granddad and now I'm in the I need some money and you're just going to kick that can down the road there's something important about saying here's what we got and sometimes that means they're moving in and sometimes that means brothers and sisters have to get in room and have uncomfortable conversations none of this is easy

Starting point is 01:44:44 john I think you and i need to create like a like a decision tree we need to create something to help folks with this matter of fact if you guys think that this is a topic that you care about. I care about it. Let us know in the comments. I told you before. Comment the things that you're interested in. I would love to know because we get so many calls about this. How do I know when to help? How do I help? How do I know if it's positive or negative? Let's talk about that. And I would love to know you guys interested in that. How do we love aging parents well? That's the top. How do we honor aging parents well? I love that. People ask me all the time. George, what's your number one money saving hack? I'm glad you asked. Nothing makes me happier than helping another frugal friend. So here's the hack.

Starting point is 01:45:54 on a budget. Seriously, how are you supposed to save money if you don't know how much you're spending in the first place? And that's what makes the every dollar budgeting app a game changer. With every dollar, you'll get a clear picture of your spending, and from there, it's easy to see where you can get more intentional, cut back, and save more money. How much money are we talking? Well, the average every dollar budgeter frees up $395 in their very first budget. And if you ask me, I think you're way above average. So, why are you still listening to me? Go download every dollar for free and start saving more money right now. Okay, so a lot of you may have filed an extension on your taxes for 2025, and if you did,

Starting point is 01:46:42 that October 15th deadline is coming round the mountain when she comes. But the good news is you have a couple of options in order to get it handled. If your taxes are pretty straightforward, you could use Ramsey Smart Tax. That's going to make filing affordable, simple, plus there's built-in support if you get stuck. But if your taxes feel a bit more complex, if you're a little overwhelmed when you think about it, you'll need to use a tax pro and that's perfectly fine they'll help you make a plan because nobody wants to face the IRS alone let them help you so if you're not sure which one to choose you can take our tax quiz and you can find out quick doing that you can handle um your extension like a boss take the tax quiz at ramsysolutions.com slash tax quiz that's what you want to do all right let's go to john who's in Dallas Texas hey John how are you doing hi thank you for calling uh taking my car sorry no worries how can we help

Starting point is 01:47:32 Well, I'm in the process of switching professions, and I'm thinking of making a withdrawal in my 401K to pay off my mortgage and two loans that I have to basically giving me a breathing room and saving $3,600 a month. However, if I do this, I'd be depleting my 401k all the way down to $37,000. Oh, my gosh. What's the total amount that you're trying to draw out of the 401K as an early withdrawal? Well, it's 165, and it's that amount because I'm calculating the 20% in taxes and the 10% of every withdrawal fee that is going to be hit. So in order for me to get the actual amount that I need, it's 110,000. So I need to do around 165 in order to get, you know, those 110. Bro, please, please, please.

Starting point is 01:48:24 I'm only telling you this because I love you. Please don't do this. You're taking out a 30% loan. Yes. alone at 30% and you're unplugging all of that future growth. Why is it so drastic that you would even consider this? Right now, we're in a situation that we don't even have a, we kind of leaving pay to check. And before I was able to, you know, have a monthly amount to save, you know,

Starting point is 01:48:59 And now we don't, you know, we don't have that either. So it's, um, but that, that tells me you have an income problem and a, like a, like a, like a resources problem, not to go rob from your, your age, your elderly self to pay your now bill. You get what I'm saying? I'd rather, I'd rather you solve this problem underneath you, then rob yourself, your future self. Yeah, because what, what will end up happening is right now you have a very real problem. We don't have enough income. We don't have enough money. that's a very real problem. I'm not going to argue that you that. But you have to make sure that the solution doesn't cause another problem. You want to choose a solution that solutions the problem at hand, not one that causes a future problem or another problem. So that's why we don't want to go this route.

Starting point is 01:49:44 Yes, we can run the numbers on the opportunity cost. Yes, we can talk about the tax burden and the penalties. All of that, I think you understand that. That's why you understood that you needed to take out 165. But oh my gosh, please don't do this. let's try to help you solve the situation that you're facing today because I need to understand why you feel like you need to pay off the mortgage right away and these two loans. Because if you do that, you're still not going to have any money month to month, right?

Starting point is 01:50:13 Well, no, if I do this, because getting this new job, it's also a bump in pay. And then my wife also works. Or expenses monthly, and that's counting gas and groceries. it's around 7,700. Okay. With the house? Yeah, with the house, yes, with the house on these two loans. And what's your combined take-home income between you and your wife?

Starting point is 01:50:37 Take home around $9,000, or $8,600, actually. So you got $86 coming in a month, and your expenses are $7,100. Help me understand why we have to be so drastic when you have, you know, almost $1,000 bucks a margin here. But those a thousand, the, I guess the $1,000 left, it goes, you know, I don't see it. My plan is to always have a budget

Starting point is 01:51:05 to, you know, be able to save here and there. But I haven't been able to make any, any savings at all. Okay. There's always something happens. Either, you know, new tires, a battery or like different things of my kids, you know, their activities

Starting point is 01:51:21 and. Okay, so this is a budgeting question. This is, I love this. This is something that we can solve today, John, because this is a budgeting mechanics issue. So, I don't know, do you have every dollar? The budgeting app? Oh, no, no, I just found out about it when I was on host. I was actually going to download it. We're going to give it to you for free for a year. That's our free gift. Yep. And so what you've got to do here, let's plug in to this. This is your homework for tonight because you can't go on like this, right? We've already painted out the

Starting point is 01:51:52 stakes of what takes place if you borrow this loan. And it's not. not good. So if you go home tonight and do this homework, you're going to be able to find the margin that you need to do the things that you need to be a financially responsible adult, and you're going to be able to sleep at night because you didn't borrow from your 401k. So, or just withdraw from your 401k. So we go in tonight, we download every dollar. Let's plug in the 8600. We're going to confirm that that's actually the amount that you're taking home, 8600. And then we're going to go through and do the budget with your wife. And this is where you guys actually get to decide. Were you just spending $2,000 a month on food because that's just what happened?

Starting point is 01:52:30 Or can we pull it back and spend $1,500 on food and make a choice and be intentional? Do you see what I'm saying? We can go through and look at subscriptions and say, do we actually need this or can we cut it back? Or did we buy way too much house? Did we buy too much house? We have a hard conversation about downsize in our home because we bought too much house. Yes. And I'm just going to let you know.

Starting point is 01:52:50 I mean, I hear that there's debt here. I think I saw that you have two private loans. Yes, I have two loans. Okay, so while we have the private loans, we're not doing any investing. We're going to wait until we clean up our debt before we invest, so that might bring some money back into your paycheck. Do you see what we're doing here? Okay.

Starting point is 01:53:09 Are you investing right now currently? No, I have to stop that too. Okay, good. That's a good thing. That's not a negative thing because it's not the thing to do right now. You've got debt. So we're just going through line by line with your wife. So that's step one of the budget.

Starting point is 01:53:24 then the next thing that you're going to do in that same budget meeting is we're going to start to project out. We're going to look into the future because this is the part a lot of people forget to do. And we're going to go, okay, we've got groceries, we've got subscriptions, all the things we kind of know about. Now let's think about the things that are kind of hiding in plain sight. You know, do the kids, do they have soccer coming up? If so, there's a registration fee coming up. Let's put that on there. Let's think about, let's examine our cars.

Starting point is 01:53:50 Does somebody need an oil change? Okay, let's put that on there. You kind of have to be really thoughtful, at least in the beginning. In the beginning, John, I feel like you're kind of, it takes about 90 days to lock this in. But then once you lock it in, John, you're like, okay, I know what our life looks like. Our budget is set with every dollar you can copy and paste the categories from one month to the next and just make the tweaks. And so it gets easier and easier. So that's thing too. Then after that, after you have brainstormed everything you could possibly think of, you can pull up your bank statement. That'll help you to see what you've spent money on. then the third thing is you're going to go okay we've planned for everything we need to plan for now let's decide when we can actually spend the money because so much of budgeting is the actual cash flow how the cash is flowing and in every dollar you can use paycheck planning to do that you can actually assign when it is that i'm going to spend this money i can't just spend all the grocery budget at one time because the money's not there but i can break it up an increment so i can know

Starting point is 01:54:50 how i'm spending it throughout the month it's very very helpful So that's what I want you to do. And I think, John, you're going to find where your margin is. Okay. I think you're going to find it. I beg of you. I plead with you, please do not take this money from your 401k. Your future self will not like that.

Starting point is 01:55:10 Yeah. And I very specifically remember going to seeing all that debt we had. And I went and sat with the CFO of a very major company. He was a friend of mine. He was at church. We were church buddies together. And I sat down with him and I said, I'm going to be a super vulnerable. Here's all of it.

Starting point is 01:55:28 And here's how much money I have in retirement. I want to pull this out and pay all this off. And also I wasn't well at the time. So I had a bunch of complicated and I'm going to do this. I move it. And he said, I don't understand what you're doing here. I'll never forget him when he said, but when it comes to your retirement, please don't do that.

Starting point is 01:55:45 Please. And I was like, why? It's going to. And he's like, don't do that. And it forced me to solve the problem another way. and now I look at that money in that account that's grown in the last 20 years since then, he was right. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:55:58 He was right. You're robbing yourself. That's right. At 30%. You've heard from me and the Ramsey personalities for years, but nothing beats actually getting together in person. That's why we created the Live Like No One Else Cruise. For seven days, we're vacationing with you and 2,500 Ramsey people in the Western Caribbean.

Starting point is 01:56:47 with live shows, us, new content, us, and more. If you're on Baby Step 4 or beyond, come spend the week with us next March. Choose your cabinet, ramsysolutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes. All right, guys, our Ramsey scripture and quote of the day is 2 Corinthians 910. Now, he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and it will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. Joe Moore said a simple fact that is hard to learn is that the time to save money is when you have some. That is groundbreaking.

Starting point is 01:57:38 Don't you love that? We laid it on the moon. No way. The quotes are like, yeah, like that's what it is. Good job, Joe. All right, let's go to Sarah, who's in Helena, Montana. Hey, Sarah, how can we help today? Yeah, hi. I was just calling. I was wanting to see about getting some advice on whether my husband and I should add an umbrella policy onto all of our insurance. We own a company that's incorporated. We don't carry umbrella on that, but we don't really keep much for assets in the company. And then we're looking to retire here soon and have a pretty good nest egg. So we're just getting, trying to get some advice on that. Yeah, I love that for you guys. Kind of a rule of thumb is if your net worth is once you kind of hit that million and above point, it's a good idea to start carrying umbrella.

Starting point is 01:58:39 And especially if you're in business for yourself, if you're kind of out there, I think that that's a good idea. Obviously your business is protected if it's in any form of LLC or S corp. That's kind of protected from your personal assets. But yeah, my husband and I carry. an umbrella. John. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:58:56 And so you can go to Xander insurance, zander.com, and have them set you up with a policy. And while you're there, have them check the quotes on everything else that you have, too, because sometimes, you know, you bundle it all together. Yes. And umbrellas are very inexpensive. And just a two-second teaching on that. Here's what umbrella does. Let's say you have a car and it maxes out, your car insurance and it maxes out at $200,000

Starting point is 01:59:22 of coverage. and you have a 17-year-old who drives it through somebody's house. The house falls over and then it catches on fire and whatever. And then they sue you for pain and suffering and, and, and, right? The umbrella policy is going to pick up the gap. If they come in and say, okay, you have a judgment against you for a million dollars and your car insurance only pays $200,000, you're going to owe $100 grand.

Starting point is 01:59:43 And so the umbrella policy covers the gaps. And so I have it, yeah. Probably a million dollars is probably great for you. whatever Xander suggests, as your net worth goes up, they might suggest more and just go with them on that. I think that that's a great call. It's a good piece of mind for me and my family. Yes, for sure, for sure. Love that call.

Starting point is 02:00:04 Thank you for that one, Sarah. Let's go to Megan, who's in Boston, Massachusetts. Hey, Megan, how can we help? Hi, I'm calling because I have a question about how to talk to an elderly family member about estate planning. It's an aunt, and she has very generously decided to leave her entire estate to my children with no strings attached and I'm very nervous about what that means for them, potentially getting a large windfall of money at a very young age. And yes, and if there's assets to be sold off, that just creates chaos on top of chaos.

Starting point is 02:00:40 Yes. Do you have a good relationship with this person? I do. She does not like to talk about finances with me though. So this is something that I've heard mostly through her, brother who is my father. Okay. So what is in place now? Is there just a will in place? Is there a trust or is there nothing? What's there now? There's no trust. It's a will and my children are minors. And so until they're 18, I would have control over it, but then once they're 18, it would be theirs. And if they are 18,

Starting point is 02:01:13 when she dies, they would just get it during the test. And my father has suggested to her that she phase it, you know, give them a portion of it so that at least if something bad happens, There's a safety net down the road, and she is unwilling to do that. Does she not trust you? No, I think she does trust me. She just actually has such blind faith in my children, which is lovely. But she thinks that they're good kids. I mean, my youngest is only six.

Starting point is 02:01:40 Well, I'm sure they have. They haven't had a chance to be bad yet. They're great kids with great parents, and they'll be fine. Oh, gosh. That worries me. You can be the greatest kid on the planet, and you turn a great kid. and somebody hands you a million dollars and you can get off the rails real quick. And that's what it is.

Starting point is 02:01:58 It's between 700 and a million per kid. Oh, gosh. And so here's the thing. I think that there does need to have a sit down conversation. Probably maybe your dad is there since he seems to listen to her. Maybe you're there. And you just lay it out and say, first off, this is so generous, so great, right? You open with gratitude, all that.

Starting point is 02:02:18 It's genuine. But then you say, I have really great kids. but this is a lot of money and anybody who would receive that at age 18 it has the ability to do so many things it has the ability to put a damper on their motivation it has the ability to cause them to have

Starting point is 02:02:38 just kind of like a listfulness list like what do I do with life I've got everything I need right here right but done correctly it can be jet fuel and shoot them off into the stratosphere if it's just dispersed out and I think that's clear that she understands I'm not trying to get this money if you want it to go to them, it all goes to them, but can we disperse it in a way that there's just a safety net there for them? Are you supposed to know about this?

Starting point is 02:02:59 No. Ah, that's going to be tough. My father came to me because he was concerned, and he said, I think you should know, so at least you can use the next time. And that's the other problem. Just lie to your kids. When they're like, do I have a bunch of money, be like, nope. I'm just kidding. Don't do that. Don't do that. I'm totally kidding. Don't do that. I was

Starting point is 02:03:19 just being silly. He's saying that that's the problem here. When you have an estate, you can't just be quiet and act like it's not there. And then when you die, everybody is like, oh, surprise. And you know this, Megan. We're telling you what you already know. But what she really does need to do is sit down and share. Here are my last wishes.

Starting point is 02:03:39 Here's what's in the will or here's what's in the estate plan, the trust. There is a lot happening right now. That's not good. You know that. Unfortunately, you can't make another adult. do something else, but I do think that you can push on this. And I think you should, to a strong degree, I think you should push on this because it does affect your children in a very major way. I would lean back on my dad. If he came to your confidence and said, I'm not supposed to tell you

Starting point is 02:04:07 this, but each one of your kids is going to get a million dollars when they turn 18. And maybe when you become, if, is your aunt in bad, in poor health, is she got five more years, 10 more years? What do you think? I think she's in good health, but she is elderly. Okay. It may be that you become the custodian of this money and you're able to sit down with an attorney and map it out. But maybe there's nothing you can do. Yeah. I thank you. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. That's where I would go with my dad and see if he could circle back to her. Yeah. I'd push on your dad with it. You know, obviously he's the one that's having the conversation. Go sit with the state attorney too. Just because I'm not smart enough on this stuff. I don't know enough about it. but there may be some things you can do as a custodian to put it in a trust once you're holding it. But I don't.

Starting point is 02:04:56 That was my hope if they are minors that I would be able to do something at that point. I don't know if you can. I doubt you can. I don't think that you can, but I'm not a lawyer. So I would sit with somebody and say that and ask them about that. But if your dad is the one going, hey, I don't want to get involved, she said not to tell you. And I told you anyway, this is when you're going to have to go, dad. We got to be adults, both of us, for these kids.

Starting point is 02:05:18 we can't keep secrets. We can't do that. We have to make sure that we are leaning in for their benefit. And so if that makes things uncomfortable for a moment and Auntie is like, I thought I told you not to tell them, you know, you'll... Could be. It's fine. You'll be able to deal with that.

Starting point is 02:05:34 Okay. Here's my final question for the show today. Okay. If it's risking her saying, fine, I'm giving this all to... Right? Yes. Do you keep quiet then? I probably would.

Starting point is 02:05:47 No, I 100% would not. probably. If it was, my 18-year-olds are going to get a million dollars each or because I wanted it done in the way I thought it was the best and that they got zero. Here's the thing, they're six years old. So we just don't know what they're going to be like. I'm sure she's a great mom. Of course.

Starting point is 02:06:09 Right. But I mean, let's just play it out. If I got a million dollars when I was 18, I like to think I would have had some intellect. I like to think that some people would have come around me, but I don't know. Oh, I would have had people come around me and they would have been very much parasites. They would have taken from me, right? And I would have gone. Oh, it would have been gone before I hit my 21st birthday.

Starting point is 02:06:31 And that's the thing. So it's almost like you may as well not have had it anyway. So I think as hard as it is, I think I'd push on it a lot. And if she's a reasonable woman, she's not going to do that. That's crazy talk. All right, guys, thanks for hanging out with this. Now remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

The Ramsey Show - Stop Settling for a Life You Hate

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