The Ramsey Show - Stuck in a Financial Pit? Here’s How to Climb Out and Stay Out

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

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Welcome to the Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money, win at work, in your work, and win with your relationships. All three of those are coming together Hopefully you're winning. I'm Kent Coleman. Jade Warshaugh is the voice and The fabulous face that you see next to me and we are here together We're gonna help you out. Take your phone calls triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five Five two two five partner. You're ready to go. You warmed up. Did you do your salt cleanse

on the throat or any kind of lozenge? Stretch the hammies. Okay. Warmed up the voice. Okay, I like how you stretched your hammies for sitting here for three hours. That's pretty good. We're going to start it off in Springfield, Missouri with Isaac today. Isaac, how can we help? Hey guys, so I'm 26, I'm married with two kids and I own a business that we just opened back in June. It's really taking a lot of time from us. My wife and I are both working

at it full time and we're not making much money yet. And so we're just kind of stressed about bills and stuff. We're kind of wondering how we can organize our lives better to be able to make more money and move forward. Okay. What kind of business is it? So it's a franchise that a friend of mine and I bought into and it's a cookie store.

And it sounds like we got a myriad of issues. So I heard we got to organize, but then we've got to figure out if this franchise can actually work. So which is the bigger problem? Spending or budgeting the money, the little bit money you're making? Are you making any money at all? What's the bigger problem here? Because I heard several things.

So I guess to get more specific, so we have that business. I'm also a realtor on the side and so any extra time I have I'm spending on that trying to sell houses and stuff. I knew it that to just a few months ago So I'm just barely starting to make money the business itself a cookie short the cookie shop isn't making really anything we're just barely breaking even and Then we're just doing all kinds of little side hustles where we can. DoorDash and Uber Eats and delivering for Walmart and stuff like that. So let me ask this, who is... Yeah, I got an idea now what we're talking about. So is it you, your buddy that you mentioned, they are the

you the two partners and your wife is also helping out just because you can't afford to pay anybody We give us just a little bit more clarity on that Yeah, so we We did stuff the stupid way because we hadn't found Dave Ramsey yet. And So a friend of mine He's just a silent capital partner. He put in money up front and helped us get into it We have a big loan on it. How much?

It's a quarter million. Oh mama. And you owe 125 of that? Yeah so I owe yeah 70% of it yeah. Oh no well that ain't 125. Last time I did that. Oh that would be. Okay so you owe 70% of it. And the rest you owe to your. I'm the 70% partner. And you, and you guys aren't making anything. You're barely making it, keeping the business going. It's just barely making it. Do you know why? Do you know the problem?

Basically, yeah. Have you figured out what the problem is? Well, kind of, we think we do. So, our sales were really, really good when we opened in the summer, and we would have made money, but we didn't have our expenses under control. Once we got our expenses under control we cut payroll costs really down, we got control of our

inventory costs, stuff like that. We're doing a lot better on the expenses side but our sales went down and we hit the winter. Part of that is because our marketing budget was kind of gone so we weren't making as much because we just our marketing was suffering. Did you expect that? Did you expect that it would get slower during the winter considering it's the winter and folks aren't just out? Yeah, and in Missouri the winters are pretty brutal and cold. Okay, so you expected this but it was too early to have had any reserves piled up is what you're saying.

Right, yeah. So we're just barely making it. Um, but yeah, my capital partner, he's out in a different state. Um, my wife and I are here and we're operating the business. How many hours are you working the two of you on this cookie? We've been able to bring our sales up just a little bit. So we've been able to hire one more part-time person, but my wife and I are both,

are each putting in about 25 to 30 hours a week. All right, so what I'm trying to figure out, Jade, is they gotta make money. You gotta go out and get business. You're a cookie maker. I'm trying, if I'm you, and this is just me, I'm brainstorming ways they can make money. If I'm you, I'm trying to host every party,

every wedding, every wedding, every, I want to cater every event with dessert. I'm going to companies and saying, what can I do? Because you've got to make money. Otherwise this is not going to do well for you. And I want to know if my competitors are making money because if they're making money and I'm not, then I do know that I'm doing something,

not only doing something wrong, but I'm not taking advantage of every opportunity that's out there for my business. Yeah, well, and I guess there's kind of another part and that's just, I'm really worried because I totally get what you're saying and that's where my head is too, is like, I need to, we need to get our sales up,

we need to get our sales up, that's all we talk about with the business. And so I'm trying to reach out and get catering orders and stuff. But then we're worried because the more time we dedicate to that and it's not a sure thing that money will you know the sale will go up that takes away time where we're doing like door dashing and stuff and we're trying to pay the bills on the personal side and so that's kind of where we're

stressed. That's where I'm coming in I don't know I'm gonna tell you something if I'm gonna do what we always do here and I'm gonna answer this the way. Go kin style. So I don't know what you're gonna say. I'm anxious to see what my partner says here on this. But if I were you, I gotta take care of my family first. I'm not worried about the cookie business. I'm really not, because I hear it in his voice and I think there's a greater reality here.

And I'm going to try to keep the cookie thing afloat with other part-time people. This is already a slow season. You and your wife have got to be spending time actually making real money, taking care of the family. And I'm not sure that there's a future on this cookie deal. And I'm the kind of guy that go, I don't want to prolong misery. Yeah. I want to cut bait at some point. I'm not saying it's now. I'm not willing to say that because I don't know enough. We have limited time, Jade. But I do think the most

important thing is, is that one of them has got a full-time, decent paying job that will at least take care of the family. So again, this is ideal. What would I do? I'd go either Ken or Stacey has got a full-time job that takes care of our expenses so that our family doesn't go below water. And then we fight to keep the cookie thing alive until we can apply some lessons and hopefully get more foot traffic. What do you think? I 100% agree. One of you needs to be working full-time and find a full time job instead of doing all these odds and ends. I think that's also part of the equation here

is you guys are burning the candle at both ends in many different ways. Yeah, I'm curious to know, I know you told us the actual debt, I'm curious to know what you're burning every single month. Like, what are you losing? What are you losing every month? Because you said you're

not making money. So we were losing money. We've gotten to a point where we're either just breaking even or making about a thousand dollars or less. And when you say break even, does that include you guys paying yourself or that's just you keeping things on and keeping things going? Okay. Yeah. And then my next question before the next question I'd have before making this decision is have you ever run a successful business before or is this your first go around being an entrepreneur? So, so as a brick and mortar business, this is my first attempt to all I've done other like side hustles and stuff like helped with marketing for other businesses, helped with bookkeeping for other businesses. I think this is going to be different for you. And I think for me, there's going to be a moment, like Ken said, we're going to have to cut ties with this, because if you're not making money,

you're losing money. Yeah, I'd give it a run. But one of you's got to go make a really good living and not all this door dashing and scrapping. Let's get let's get some comfort. So we give this thing a run. Or is it worth it at this point? Just go, all right, I'm going gonna take my 70% of that I owe,

and I'll pay it back, and I'll learn something. This is the Ramsey Show. People tell me about their experiences with big banks all the time. Bad service, fees that nickel and dime them to death, and predatory lending that tries to catch them in never-ending cycles of debt.

So if you're ready for a bank that puts people over profits, check out FairWinds Credit Union. I recommend FairWinds because they share our Ramsey values of helping people get out of debt and live generously. If you go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey you'll see the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans. This account bundle is designed to help you take control of your finances and stay out of debt and Fairwinds also has a great mobile app that's safe and secure so you can manage your

transactions with peace of mind. Fairwinds has been helping people avoid big bank traps for 75 years. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. It's easy to join no matter where you live. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show where we coach you to win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade, you fired up, you're ready to go, you got your talk ready for January 23rd, I'm talking about the Take Control of Your Money live stream. Let's get ready to rumble. I saw your face out on the gigantic Jumbotron as I was walking at lunch

yesterday. I was like, hello Jade. It was too much. But gonna be a lot of fun. Dave Ramsey and you, that's right, are gonna be teaching people how to stop living paycheck to paycheck so they can pay off debt and finally get ahead also I'm told Rachel Cruz and George camel will be joining for a Q&A little cameo well factoids. Yes They'll so when you sign up Here's an extra little potential bonus. You will be entered in our cash giveaway five people are gonna win $4,000 each at the Take Control of Your Money live stream. That's this January 23rd.

You can sign up, it's free by the way, you can sign up for the live stream at ramsysolutions.com slash live stream. That's ramsysolutions.com slash live stream. Can I put you on the spot for a little preview? What can you tell us? What will you tell us? I will tell you that your money

is the most expensive thing that you have and yet most of us treat it without care. We don't know where it went. We just kind of guess about it. And here's the thing, Ken, if I bought you. Oh, I'm very excited. What would you bought you, what's your favorite like luxury brand? Well, Gucci category? Yeah. Can you give me like fashion? Give me fashion. Ralph, Ralph Lauren. If I bought you a brand new Ralph Lauren trench coat, like a really nice one, you would treat it

with care. It'd be on a hanger. I would be in it. I would get it dry clean regularly. You'd want to keep those nice. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. But you wouldn't get home, ball it up, throw it in the corner, step on it, wonder where it went. Wouldn't do yard work in it.

Wouldn't do yard work in it. If I said, Ken, where's your coat? You'd know exactly where it's at. Well, I'd wear it in with a little bit of pride. Meanwhile, most of us with our money, we're like, I don't know where it went. Some of it's in my wallet, some of it's over here. I don't know what I spent. And it's so in my wallet, some of it's over here, I don't know what I spent.

And it's so expensive. We spend our time, our effort, our sanity, our sleep. We spend so much to get it, and then we just treat it like, I don't know where it went. And so I'll be talking a little bit about that. I like that, great metaphor. That's gonna put people in a good place of tension.

Yeah. The way you just set that up, a lot of people were like, ouch. I'm treating my purse, my shoes, my fill in the blank better than I am my greatest resource, my money. We're not realizing it. It's going to be fun. All right. Let's get back to the phones.

Melissa joins us now in Orlando, Florida. Melissa, how can we help today? Hi, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I am pretty new to the Ramsey show. I just started listening maybe about like a month or so ago. So I'm still learning. And I definitely want to change my relationship with money. But I'm calling because I took out a loan back in, it was the end of 2019 to consolidate my credit card debt and I was paying it.

I was able to afford the payments and then the pandemic started. So I ended up getting furloughed from my job and I also moved to a different state in 2021 and it was just a lot for me and I just couldn't afford the payment. So I kind of just stopped paying and I guess like I thought it like disappeared somehow. I don't know. Speaking of the example you just gave, she did not know where it was. That was a hope. That was a wish. Maybe it disappeared. Maybe it evaporated. Yes, there was a lot going on during that time.

But so I did, I remember seeing a couple emails from the company telling me to give them a call to like get back on track and again didn't answer those emails which I wish I did but a few years later now we're in 2025 wish I did, but a few years later, now we're in 2025, but I did get an email from a company saying that they sold off my loan to Debt Consolidator. And they basically were giving me very little options as far as like paying it off. How much is it? It's for a little over $8,000. Okay.

And what are they saying to you? So they offered to pay it in full by end of December, which I couldn't do. And then they also offered 90 days to pay it in full, but they keep going back to paying it in full. And I told them, you know, I have like medical bills and stuff that I'm trying to take care of. So this is what I can afford. And there's just a lot of back and forth and I just don't want to delay it because I just

don't want any legal issues or anything. But um, and then just some backstory. I am currently, I live at home with my parents. I'm a single mom and I am planning on moving out this year. So this whole thing just feels like such a setback for me. So it's a little discouraging. Well, don't look at it as a, let's change our thought here

because if your goal is to move out, don't think of this as a setback. This is just something that's going to, when you deal with it, it's gonna get you on a firmer foundation so that when you move out, you're in a great position. So this is like you cleaning house, right? And you know that feeling that you get

after you clean everything out up. It's like, okay, everything's in its place. Everything's where it belongs. I might be tired, but I feel good, right? You've accomplished something. Yeah. So let's talk about your debt snowball because you said you've got some medical bills. Are you listing them from smallest to largest? Like logically what debt

comes next? So I actually just paid off my two smallest credit cards because I started that process. Good. So my largest would be my car. I have a few years left on that. And then right now my smallest credit card balance is probably like 400. So that's pretty pay-off. And what's your income? Right now, a grocer net. What do you bring home?

So every month, how much money do you bring home? Each month I bring home 3,800, but I also do get some child support as well. How much is that? That is $800 a month. Okay. What are your actual expenses? Like what do you like you're living with mom and dad. I know. That's what I'm wondering. What's your bottom line? Like you could make it if you only had this much coming in. So I, my biggest payment is my car. Um, another like setback was last year when I had my baby, I went on an unpaid maternity leave, so I went about three months with no income. So I had that I felt like the whole point of me moving home was to pay off my debt,

which is also 8,000 in credit card. I'm jumping in only because we have limited time with you and I want Jade to be able to get to this. So what is that minimum number that you need to just survive? Cause you don't have housing. What's giving you a ballpark number? Is it, is it $1,800, $2,000, 1500?

What is it that you have to have? I would say for the month. Yeah. I would say about maybe, because with my minimums and my car, I would say maybe about like two, 3000. Well, I think we've just discovered the issue. I think Ken just discovered it,

which is you don't have a budget because people who have a budget know their numbers. And I'm not saying that to be, you know, ugly in any way, but we've just discovered. I think if you have the budget, which we'll set you up with before you get off the call, you're gonna be able to see, okay, here's what my life costs, and here's how much margin I have after I pay for everything that my life costs.

So for you, you're in a wonderful situation in the fact that you're not paying for housing. and you've got to capitalize on that to the fullest extent While you're there, okay And you're gonna be able to do that with the budget. Um, you're gonna be able to say okay, here's the truth I make I have forty six hundred dollars every single month. How much is your car payment? It's five seventy Hmm, and how much is the total amount that you owe? I have about 21,000 left.

And what's it worth? Do you know? I don't know, actually. Okay. I'd be curious to know how much that's worth. If you want to get out of this really, really fast, it might mean downsizing your car. $570 is a lot of money to be paying when you're trying to do things like save up to get out of your parents house, pay off debt, take care of a one-year-old, that sort of thing. So I'd be

thinking about getting out of that car, but the budget is the number one thing. And what you're going to do is you're going to put your income at the top. You're going to subtract everything that you think you might spend money on. And then Melissa, whatever's left goes to your smallest debts. You should be moving very... You should be spending $3,000 a month on paying off debt. I agree. There's no reason why you're not. You don't have a house. You're about to not have a car payment.

Let's get going. Hang on the line. What are we going to give her? Are we going to help her out with anything? Yeah, let's give her every dollar premium and total money makeover. I like it. All right, you can do this Melissa. We're walking this through with you. This is The Randall Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey folks, we all have stories. The family and cultural

stories that we were born into. The stories of the things that have happened to us, both good and bad, and the stories that we constantly tell ourselves. And while we can't go back and change any of our old stories, the world is waiting to see what you and I are going to write next. As we enter 2025, I want to encourage you to examine your old stories and be intentional about the new ones you're writing. And I'm not talking about goals that are going to be long gone by February. I'm talking about writing new stories that will change your life forever, for the better. And if you're like me, therapy can be a great place to explore the old stories, even heal from them, and begin to write new ones. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, I want you to consider my

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Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash deloni to get 10% off your first month. That's better help. H E L P dot com slash deloni. Welcome back to the Ramsey show here to help you win in your life. We want you to win with your money, win in your professional life and win with your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman.

Jade Warshaw is alongside triple eight-525-5225 is the number. West Palm Beach, Florida is where we go next. Katie is there. Katie, how can we help? Yes, hello. What a great opportunity. I just want to say and thank you guys for taking the call. Sure, thank you. I'm going through a divorce. I'm married to somebody in the military. He brought me down to his hometown two weeks within arriving, left me with nothing. And because of jurisdiction, I can't leave. This town doesn't have a lot of work opportunities. I've managed to kind of make it online on without any family or friends here, but, um, in my current situation, I obviously want to get out.

I'm getting paid $13 an hour and I'm living in an RV, but I am very thankful for the blessings that have come my way. But obviously I would just want to see my way out. My thing is, I want to go to school, and I don't want to get in debt, but I feel like that might have to be an option, and I just need to, I give them. Sure. All right, let's start with two quick questions.

Number one, do you have kids? Yes, I have two little ones. How old? Six and a four-year-old. And nobody to watch them? No, it's just been me. So when? Right now because of Florida being 50-50, I, you know, but actually have the kids most of the time. When does your four-year-old go to kindergarten in the fall or do you have another year to wait? He's in daycare, so yeah, this year he should be going

to preschool. Okay, so you do have a daycare option. Okay. That's good. Are you still in school? Yeah, I mean, right, yes, and you know, there's certain programs that help with that, but right now, I'm paying the full tuition

for both of my kids and not getting any assistance. Okay. And no child support. All right, so let's just, let's try to get you some clarity. Let's back out of the situation, because this is tough, hard to see some things. If money were no object,

and I just gave you this degree or certification, whatever you're referring to and you're talking about schooling, and I just gave it to you today, and you had that done What would you be using the schooling for what is this this this path direction you're thinking that you need schooling for? Well, I just It's not exactly what I want, but it's what he's hey listen no judgment. So nursing That's what you've selected?

Yes. Okay. And what would you make? What have you done in your research? What would that allow you to start out at? 28, around 28. 28 an hour? Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, we've got a real challenge because you just literally have no money for the nursing program.

How much would the cheapest nursing program cost you? From what I've seen... And I mean the cheapest because nobody cares what brand name is on the diploma. We just need the degree. Yeah, this is at the local community college. I have the numbers, but I should have been more prepared. That's OK. I did look into it, and I have the numbers.

I just can't remember them, but it's absolutely cheapest. OK, do you have a ballpark idea if you had to guess? If you don't, that's OK. I don't want to hold us up. So we need to know that number. OK, so Katie, I'm talking like. It would be for an associate's 13,000, 13,840. So around 14. So total with 14, that would allow you to become a nurse, 14 grand. Okay. All right, Jade, that

at least gives us a target on the future. The deadbeat dad thing, just real quick question, I'll get out of Jade's way so she can coach you on this, but is there any legal recourse on this guy not paying you what he owes you? So he's, I was able to get the military to chain me because he got out. Right now we're in a limbo with the court. Okay, gotcha, all right.

Okay, well we gotta get our income up. We gotta do, there's gotta be a bridge, Jade, gotcha. All right. Okay. Well, we got to get our income up. We got to do bet. There's got to be a bridge Jade, just on this on the income side, there's got to be a bridge from where she's at making 13 an hour now. If we could get her to 20 2224 an hour, I don't care what it is, Katie. It's just you you're doing something you don't have to have a degree to get that kind of money, potentially. Now I know you're in a limited area, so within reason, if we can get your income, is there a bridge or a second job, friends, old grandmas at the church you go to, you've gotta get really, really innovative in thinking who can help with the kids

when they're not in daycare, so you can make more money to be able to cash flow this nursing program. Help me understand the limited area. Is it, you're on base? Is it, help me understand that. No, it's a very, very small town. Everybody knows everyone.

West Palm. West Palm Beach? She's not in West Palm. Where are you? I'm not. I know South Florida, where are you? I don't know. Okay, Toby. Okay, OK, listen, I. I think there's more. I have different questions to ask you because I'm thinking about

how we can cut around your budget. I thought I heard you say that you're paying tuition for a six year old. Explain to me their daycare and whatnot. Like the daycare. I'm paying full daycare and aftercare for my kids. For both? Because I don't, yes.

Is the six year old in kindergarten or is still in daycare? He's in daycare, the four year old's in daycare. And my daughter's in aftercare. When does the six year old go to kindergarten? I'm trying to figure out when your time and your money freeze up because daycare is super expensive plus there's the time aspect. So I'm trying to figure out when your time and your money freeze up because daycare is super expensive plus there's the time aspect so I'm trying to figure out when they will be in school you know from from eight to three and when you'll have that money freed up.

The aftercare for my six-year-old is at the school so because I get out around 4 30 and she gets out a lot earlier so I don't have anybody to watch her. Cause I've only been here, I think a year. All right, I understand. So trying to get to know people, yeah. I'm just trying to understand when they both will go to kindergarten. When will the four year old go to kindergarten?

Should be this fall, preschool. Oh, you mean kindergarten? Yeah, kindergarten. Yeah, okay. So that's gonna be a huge, that's gonna be a parting of the seas for you because you're gonna get a lot more money back in your pocket

and you're gonna have built-in childcare for this portion of the day, which right now with a single mom, limited options, we need to know when that's gonna be. So I think for you, that's gonna open up a lot of opportunity. In the meantime, I do think that there's other things

you can do for $13 an hour, for more than 13 an hour. I think you just need to expand your horizons, even if it's you finding work from home things, right? I think the nurse idea is great and I want you to do that, but we've got bigger fish to fry in this moment. And maybe just for the next 12 months until you can get your kids off to school, that not line item is back out of your life, you're starting to figure out what's going on with the child support, and then you can start to devote

money towards nursing. So I think this is a dream deferred, not a dream denied by any means. But I think the next 12 months is about you being in a survival mode and looking for work that you can do that's going to earn more money until you get to the position where you can get this degree. Is that fair, Ken? I agree. Just from a logistic standpoint, Katie, because I'm trying to, I know you're overwhelmed. Who would watch the kids and when would you do the nursing program if you

had the money today? Somebody's got to watch the kids. What's that song? Right, and so I've been trying to plug myself into some churches, but it takes a while to build the friendship and trust, so it's still working fine. Okay, so here's the thing, you're doing the right thing. Here's my point. Jade's a hundred percent right. I want to see you get more income. Let's solve the who can watch the kiddos while I'm making more money problem. I think that's huge. Let's solve the who can watch the kiddos while I'm making more money problem. I think that's huge. Let's get a budget. Jade will help you out.

We'll give you the every dollar or something along those lines, Jade. But I think real quick, let's get help for kiddos. They know you're a single mom. They know you need a little help. Let's get the finances completely under control. Let's increase our income. And once you're stable there, I think you can save up $11,000 to $12,000 faster

than you think. If you have better income and you got everything kind of under control, you know where your money's going in and out. I think that's the plan for me. Please don't do the debt. It's just gonna put more stress on you. I think it's worth waiting. I agree wholeheartedly. I would not go into debt. No it's just and I get it this is the lure by the way. Well she wants to she's in a hot pot that's about to boil and she wants to jump out and jumping into debt is not the option. Hang on the line Katie we're gonna take care of you. Kelly will get you hooked up with some great resources to kind of get control of the money and with that clarity comes confidence to move forward on the advice we've given you. This is The

Ramsey Show. You know every year I hear the same excuses for why people don't get the life insurance they need to protect their families. So this year, let's clear the air and look at the facts. Most people are concerned about price, but term life rates have never been lower. Having 10 to 12 times your income on a 15 or 20 year plan is in many cases just plain cheap. Second, life insurance through your work is not enough, especially since these plans go away if you change jobs.

You need to have your own policy so you're not without protection when your family really needs it. Third, stay at home parents need life insurance, especially those with young kids. People don't realize how quickly the costs add up without someone at home taking care of things. So no more excuses folks, get the protection your family needs. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. They've been my choice for all my insurance for over 25 years and are the only people I trust. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. Glad to have you with us as we coach you and others up to win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Today's Ramsey Network app

question is from Lewis. We just finished paying off $100,000 in debt, however, we have only $80,000 saved for retirement and have $15,000 saved for our teenager who will be going to college in three years. I'm 50, my wife is 47. Our annual household income is 175,000. We only live on maybe half of that. Should we not put money into our daughter's college fund at this point and just hope she can qualify for scholarships or cash flow college when we get there so that we can save more for retirement, any advice would be appreciated. I like this question. So I always like to set the tone for these sorts of questions by saying that there's no requirement for a parent to pay for their child's education. Like that truly is really a privilege for both. A privilege for the parent if they can afford it and a

privilege for the child if they receive it. It doesn't make you a bad parent if you do not pay for your kid's college. I know for me, my parents told me they're like, listen, there is no college fund. You better be smart and good at sports. And so the moral of the story here for you, Louis, is as long as you're really communicating what the plan is, and if the plan does not involve you giving them all the cash that they need for all four years or whatever it is, maybe they go to a technical college, maybe they go to whatever they decide,

if you're not paying for the whole thing, what you do need to be saying is, and here's how we are paying for it, you're going to get these scholarships, or you're going to work part time and have it thought through and talk to them about what that plan is, as opposed to leaving them hanging or putting any room for them to think that student loans are an option. And so in this case, I think it's up to you and your wife if you go, hey, this is, cause you're gonna retire.

Like that day is going to come and you're going to need the cash to be ready for it. So there is an inevitably an inevitability there that you can't get around. And if you sat with your smart vester and you've realized, hey, if we don't get on the ball with this, we're not going to have the money we need for when we stop working, then yeah, that is a reality that you have to face and say, okay, kids, this is all you get, or you don't get any and here's what we're going to do instead. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I know people who can afford to pay for their kids college and choose not to because they want their children to have skin in the game and they want them to pursue, you know what I'm saying, that side of it. So this really is up to what you guys decide. You have a really great household income. I'm wondering if you can continue to put 15% aside and cashflow a portion of this. Whatever you decide to do,

I just want you to know that there's not, the only wrong answer is you not talking about it and coming up with a plan. That's the only wrong answer. Yeah, good answer. Love it. I can't add anything to that, so I won't. Let's go back to the phones.

Kirk is joining us in Denver, Colorado. Kirk, how can we help today? Yes, I'm just calling about just some financial question. I'm a pastor, been in ministry my whole life. We pastor a small church in Wyoming, and so we've lived in a parsonage all that time, so we don't own a home or anything. We've gone through financial peace in our church, so we use cash for everything. We're completely out of debt, but my wife's parents were involved in a tragic car accident, lost their lives. And so they had, they live in Missouri and they had a couple, uh, farms. And so, uh,

we sold one with my wife's brother. We sold one and just put the money into, uh, Edward Jones. And we made, we have about, I think there's about $460,000 in there. And last year we made 19% interest on that. I think our cash interest was around $75,000. Anyway, my question is we've been talking with her brother about this other chunk of land. And so he, I don't know if he's thinking we should keep the land. My question is,

are we going to make more in interest if we would sell that and put it in a financial institution or keep the land thinking that the value of the land might go up someday? Depends on the land. And it depends on the stock market. Yeah, but well, yes, but we have historical averages on the stock market.

So we know what the stock market has done historically So you've got a range there of what that's going to do What matters is this land? That's the that's the the asterisk in this. What do you know about the land? Is it just farmland? Is it in a area? Yeah. Tell me what do you know about the land and the future around it? Yeah, the land it's it's north of Springfield, Missouri. It's just a rural land. It's just farmland. It does have some water that goes through it.

So we're probably going to just sell it, not like to be developed, but just someone who would want the farmland to run cattle or add to their farm or whatever. And so it's not in a county with like a big city. So the value per acre is lower. Maybe it's like $10,000 an acre. We're not sure exactly what it's going to come up to.

That's the- you're on the right track. I would want to know what's the potential of this land over 15, 20, 30 years. Because if it's a retirement, because you're asking apples to apples and these aren't apples to apples. And so know that's what I would be doing if I'm looking at this is retirement money I'm either gonna put it in a mutual funds the way we teach here Or I'm gonna hold on the land and at X age that we determine we sell it So as you look to however many years that is from now when you would actually want to use it for retirement What do you project or what do some land experts in that area project that land value to be? That would be the answer that I'm looking for.

And based on that, then I make my decision and, you know, look, you're going to probably get much better return on getting that cash out now and putting it in mutual funds. That would be my guess based on what you've told me, but I would want to know for sure. Is there anything- Yeah, and I'm just going to say I'm 58 years old and so we're going to be retiring here soon. What do you think you guys stand to make on that? On that land, I'm thinking maybe 750,000. I'm figuring it's like 150 acres, so if my wife gets 75 acres of it and it's worth $10,000,

that's $750,000. I'd probably go buy a sign today and smack it in the dirt. Me and take that money and put that away. Do you need it? That's the other question. Are you banking on it? Is it something that you need in the short term? Not in the short term but definitely through retirement because like I said we don't have a whole lot and so this this 400 close close to 500,000 that we already have in us in mutual funds

we're gonna need to buy a house so we're thinking maybe 250 to 300,000 house so that's gonna take a big chunk of that and then just live on the rest and put it in a trust and give what we can to our kids but the other question I had is, is it just, I mean, does it cost you anything? Is there any upkeep on this land? Are there any animals on it? Does it cost you anything? No, is it just sitting? Not really. And her brother lives down there. And so like fixing some fence, we actually lease it to a guy for, we don't really make a whole lot on it. He just runs some cattle on it. So there is some upkeep on the land somewhat.

I don't know. What would you do? What popped in my mind is, is there a way that I'd wanna make money with this land as it's appreciating in value so that I can make money two ways? That's what was in my head. And then cash out when you're ready for it.

And then cash out when I'm ready. Well, I like that if you can. If I'm not gonna do that, then I'd probably cash it out and invest the money. That's me, I'm not saying that that's necessarily right. It's just what my brain would be thinking of. I'm trying to find ways to get money. Right, and that's why I said I'd take the 750 now

because it doesn't sound like, I actually agree with you, Jade. I'd wanna know what that looks like. And then again, I'm comparing. Where do I, so I'm with you. I'm 100% going, my goal here is to make more money. And that's your goal too. So the question is, is what allows you

to make the most money? I think my gut tells me that I'm not informed, but I told you what I would do to get informed. I would add to it what Jay just said, which is could we be making more money than just leasing to the current guy who's letting cattle run on it? Run all those numbers, at which point I'm gonna go,

if my money has a chance to grow faster by getting it now and putting it in the stock market yeah through the mutual funds the way we teach investing and that's probably the way I'm going yeah because you got what 12 years before you're gonna go after it well what do you think it work until 70 I'll be I'll be 59 February I mean I want to retire whenever I can but yeah so I'm figuring you know 60 67 68 something like that to retire. And okay. I will say I love a lump sum. I love the idea of dropping a big old lump sum and letting that, let it do what it's going to do. Let it do what it do, what it do. Yeah, I agree. And then, you know,

you got options. I love that plan. I'd probably sell that dirt tomorrow. See what the wife wants to do too. She's got a good intuition. Glad you brought that plant. I'd probably sell that dirt tomorrow. Yeah, see what the wife wants to do too. She's got a good intuition. Glad you brought that up. This is the Ramsey Show. Taking care of your health doesn't have to cost a fortune. That's why Field of Greens is in my house. Field of Greens is made from fruits and veggies

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This is where we help you, America, specifically, we help you win with your money. Win in your professional life and win with your relationships. Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. We're both thrilled to be together for you. So we'd love to coach you up. Here's how we do it. You give us a call, triple 8 two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five. Jade's our resident money expert. I'm the resident professional

advice expert. Let's make mo money so that Jade can teach you how to keep more of the money. That's our tango today. So can we help you? Let's go. Christian starts us off in Portland, Oregon. Christian, how can we help today? Hi Ken and Jay. Thanks for taking my call. Yes, I am just starting the new year off the right way with trying to get out of debt. I'm following the baby steps. I just don't have a lot of accountability and I need direction and I really wanted to make a big deal about this so I wanted to call the show and get some professional advice from people that I trust. Well, I'm gonna go news for you because I'm sitting next to the budget queen,

not the dancing queen. Hey, budget queen. There it is, do your thing. I think this man needs to know how to figure out a budget. First off, Christian, I love that you're understanding the importance of accountability to the point where you're like, I'm gonna call on the show, people are gonna hear it,

post about it on social media. I actually really like that. Some people kind of like to do their goals in the quiet and in secret. And I, listen, I'm no psychologist, I don't know, but I have a feeling around that. I think that when people do their goals quietly, it's because they're afraid that if they don't accomplish

them or if they fail, no one has to know, right? And so I love the accountability of you saying, no, I'm putting it out there. So my question is what is it that you're trying to accomplish and what is it, what is the thing that you're worried about being a roadblock for you accomplishing it? Well, I've never really been good at my finances in the past, keeping a budget, keeping up like a record of my finances. And I'm about 90,000 in debt. It's 35 of it.

35,000 is an auto and the rest of it is credit card. And I work part-time, seasonal on a farm in Oregon. I don't make very much, but I'm very fortunate and blessed to have a trust that I get money from every month. But I've been very irresponsible. It's 7 seven thousand now so you get seven thousand a month from the trust and then you're working part time on a farm what do you make from your part-time work when I am working which I'm offseason right now but usually about two thousand a month okay

and I work part-time because I have a two-year-old daughter, and I watch her half the week. I have her three and a half days. Okay. Do you have any support around you that could help with her? Well, so her mother watches her the rest of the time, and she is a big support, and my daughter and everything. I know, but I'm talking about, you're a daddy now, and I'm jumping in here because I don't like

what I'm hearing and I'm not criticizing you, but you need to be working full time. Even when it's your turn, your custody side of things, that means you see her after you come home from work. That means someone is helping you or you are paying for them to help you because you need to be making more money in this off season. Yeah, is the trust for life?

Yes. Okay, I have a question. You told me earlier that you've never been good at managing your money or sticking to a budget. Do you know why? Why is that? What do you do instead? Well, I was never really taught that.

Okay. Well, I was never really taught that and yeah, I am and when I get around math or numbers, I choke up. I didn't get very far in math and school and it's a very uncomfortable subject for me. Is it also fair to say that you haven't needed to budget? Yeah. No. Well, what do you mean by that? Meaning you've never had to worry about not having enough money. So therefore, there was never a need

to watch where this dollar was going and where that dollar was going. Yeah, $7,000 a month is... you can live on that. $7,000 a month is a good chance. No, I haven't had that. I only got... It hasn't been that long since I've had that. And it hasn't always been $7,000. I started getting it in 2008 and it started off at $2,000.

Which is why, by the way, Jade, I want him working, even though this is a nice blessing, I still want him working. Yeah, so let's get into this a little bit I I totally buy it. None of us were taught this in college None of us were taught it in high school few of us were taught it in our own homes So it's very very important and I'm also with you on the math Despite popular belief. I actually hate doing math and I'm not very good at it I made season it in high school and college. So there we go

Um, the good news for you is that we solve those problems here for you with every dollar I'm not very good at it. I made C's in it in high school and college. So there we go. The good news for you is that we solve those problems here for you with EveryDollar. So before you get off the call, I want you to have the EveryDollar app. It's a budgeting app, and it's gonna help you do the things that you said you struggled with,

which is making a plan for your money, sticking to the plan with your money, and doing the math on your money. It does all of that for you. The only thing that you have to do Christian is the only commitment you have to make is to make the thing, right? Plug your numbers in and just to take atomic habits,

habit stack it with something else you do, right? So if you have a habit in the morning of you wake up, you make your morning coffee and you read the news on your phone, right? You just add and after I read the news on my phone, and you read the news on your phone, right? You just add, and after I read the news on my phone, or before I read the news on my phone, I track my transactions in every dollar. That's it.

If you can start that habit this year, you're going to see things with your money begin to turn around. Because for most of us, we're just not, it's not part of our day-to-day rhythm, and so we're not seeing the fact that we're overspending on food, or we're not seeing the fact that we're overspending on food, or we're not seeing the fact that we're overspending

and accidentally spending the money for something more important on something less important, right? And so for you, I think getting that happen into your life is gonna be really important. So that's numero uno. The next thing I wanna talk about is this car. So you said you've got a $35,000 car and then you've got another 55 or 60,000

in credit card debt. So I kind of want to tackle the car. What's it worth? I think it's probably worth a little bit less than 35. I haven't actually looked it up. I don't know those numbers. Okay, then that would be my second piece of homework. Number one is every dollar.

Number two, I'm looking to see if this thing, if there's a break even here, or if, you know, if it's a very short amount of upside downness, I'm gonna take that bet and I'm going to probably get out of this car because what are you paying every month for it? 700. Hey, my guy.

Let's get that money back into your wallet. That's a lot of money for somebody who's in $90,000 of debt. So if I were you, I would get out of that vehicle. I'd buy something far less expensive in cash. And yeah, that's what I would do. That's almost half of that debt, not quite, but almost. Yeah, you're clearing out a big portion of it.

And then with these credit cards, don't consolidate them, don't do a shuffle game. Just list them smallest to largest and pay them off one by one. Ken, what's he going to do with the career real quick? I don't know. We didn't have enough time to get into that. What do you want to do if money wasn't an object? Say it, go. Um, um, something to do with plants. Um, I work on a veggie farm. I moved to Oregon so I could do permaculture design, which has a lot to do with, you know, plants. So here's what we're going to do. Hang on the line.

Kelly, let's get him a copy of find the work you're wired to do. It's a bestselling book with an assessment. It'll help. This is the Ramsey show. You've got a lot to keep organized in life. Kids and calendars and carpooling and cleaning. I mean, it is so much. That's why you need a knockbox. That way, if something happens to you, you leave your loved ones with happy memories and not a huge mess. Knockbox is a complete system to help you organize your accounts, personal history, estate planning documents, and all your other info in one place.

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experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at ramseysolutions.com slash agent. Ramse Show continues. Thrilled to have you with us America. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. We would love to hear from you. We want to coach you up. I'm Ken Coleman.

Jade Warshaw is alongside. Hey, our Ramsey Show Annual Listener Survey is now live. We'd love to know your favorite parts of the show, what you like, what you don't, what you want to hear more of, whatever it is. We do want your opinion. There are a couple ways to participate. You can text the word survey to the number 33-789. You can text survey to 33789 Visit RamseySolutions.com slash survey. That's RamseySolutions.com slash survey or If you're listening on podcast or YouTube click the link in the show notes Sign up today to tell us what you think and you will be entered by the way to win a $500 gift card so got a chance to win 500 bucks

just for telling us what you think. If you're gonna say anything mean about me, just go ahead and decide not to. There might be a few of those. You think? A few, a few. Ken's sweater. Yeah, today my sweater is just very low key today.

Yeah, you're doing good. I can't help it that I like, you know, some bolder statements from time to time. Yeah, you do good. As do you. Indeed. But I think you pull it off better and maybe people are going, he should probably try to keep up with you. I'm playing your song, monochrome.

Yeah, I like that. It's a good look. All right, back to the phones we go. Triple 8, 825, 5225. Dag is joining us in Seattle, Washington. Dag, how can we help? Hi, Jane, Washington. Dag, how can we help? Hi, Jay and Ken. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

I've been listening to you guys for a few months or several months, and just love everything you guys are doing. Thank you. So I'm heading in the direction of my retirement from my primary career, probably in the next, uh, as early as three years, but could, could push that out a little bit. So I'm kind of, um, I'm, I'm looking at the sunset of, of my, uh, my main career and what I'm looking to, you know, do as a second career. And then also building some wealth in that I've already paid off, I kind of flip flop, maybe five and six, uh, paid off the house. So now I'm bolstering the college account for the kids and then trying to build

some wealth tools. Um, and I'm, I'm playing it really conservative. We've got some money in high yield. Um, I'm just looking a little, looking for a little direction and a couple of those areas as my sunset of my career kind of approaches. All right. So direction in what you do for work after you retire from the main career and then direction in how to invest. Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah. Yeah. And I've been in public service as an emergency responder.

And just that, you know, the length of that career is wearing and tearing on the body a little bit. All right, let's just dive in there. Let's dive in. I have a sense that a guy like you calls this show, you have a couple of ideas that if there were zero resistance, you would go, this was probably one on my list, this is two on my list. Am I right? Sure, yeah. All right, so give me number one. What would you do if there were zero resistance? Let's say we fast forward and we walk away from public service and boom, we walk into this. What is it? It probably has something to do with, um, teaching in a similar to the field.

So basically shifting my knowledge and experience into some kind of teaching environment, um, to, to the, the new up and comings, uh, whether it's through my and a teaching LLC or at a local community college, uh, certainly an option. I don't have a teaching credential so I have to go down that route. Well, what about instructing within the actual department? And I do do that currently. It's getting out of the emergency response side of things, kind of the wear and tear of the 24 and 48 hour shift. Right, so the question is,

since you're working, are you working for a municipality or the state? A municipality, essentially. I wonder if there are some training, instructing opportunities in different departments. And so the idea here is, here's where I would start brainstorming, Dag. All right, these people know me. I've

been a city employee or county employee for X amount of years. I'm in the system. If I can get out of the environment, that's what I'm hearing you say, in emergency and I can move somewhere else and still take some of that transferable experience and get into instructing, then I'm not having to go necessarily get any qualifications. That's one option. The other option is, yeah, over the next couple of years, you moonlight and get an online teaching degree and then decide, I can go to the local high school, I can go to the local community college.

I think it's just laying out all the specific training slash instruction options in your area. Make a list. Where could I go if there were zero challenge or hindrances? Then we look at that list and we go, well I kinda like the idea of teaching at this local trade school, or I like this idea of teaching at this local public school, whatever. And you begin to make the list of this is more desirable than that.

And I got my top two or three options. And now I start asking the question. And I wrote about this, by the way. I'm going to give you the book, Paycheck to Purpose. But I wrote about this. There's four qualifying questions. Once we know, Dag, what I want to do. They are, what do I need to learn?

That's the education question. Could be, what do I need to learn? That's the education question. Could be a certification, may have to be associates, may have to be a four-year degree. What do I need to do? What experience will I need? That tells me where I'm entering or I'm transferring certain experience. Then it's how much is that going to cost me? That's the finance piece. And

then finally, based on my finances, how long will this take me? And those are the four questions, Dag, and they're in the book, and I'll give the book to you at the end of the call. And it's in the get qualified stage. But those four questions right there, that comes up with a plan. And now it's not intimidating, Jade, because now he knows what he's got to do. I I think that's your homework there. I want to get Jade in here on the retirement piece so she can give you some guidance there. Yeah. Tell me more. The only thing that made my ears perk up is when you said that you were very conservative and you were utilizing high yield savings accounts. So I didn't know

what percentage we're talking. So tell me more about that. Yeah, so the houses, I'm fortunate that I got my house paid off. Nice. I'm gonna have a small pension, deferred comp. And I've put quite a bit of money away to pay for my stepson's college. And my goal is to have that 100% by the time I retire. Okay. And, but then I have some extra in there that, you know,

I know that I can do better with that outside of a high yield. How much extra? And it just, I would say in the hundred ish range, I'd be maybe comfortable with freeing up out of there. Oh, that's the amount you'd be comfortable freeing up. How much is in their total? Uh, 240.

Ooh, my goodness. All right. Great job saving. Listen, if I were you, if I were in your shoes, I would keep three to six months of expenses. You sound like a guy who wants 12 months of expenses, but I'd for sure keep six in there. And then if you're not, if you don't have something that you know that you're intentionally about to do with this money, uh, you know, you're not remodeling your kitchen or you're not about to do something. It's,'s not college money. I didn't I'd invest it I Would I'd be maxing out Roth IRAs every single year if you have HSA's I'd max those out and then I'd throw the rest in a brokerage account and

That's what I'd be doing I'd definitely be investing this money and getting a better rate of return somewhere between 10 to 12 percent if you're investing in the mutual funds that we teach the type of mutual funds we teach. Yeah. What what gives you pause about that? And I'm say that again. I'm sorry. What gives you pause about investing it? I think part of it is a good portion of the money I've saved, a little bit of it was inheritance, probably about a third of that. I just want to be, I kind of treat that as, it's not really, yes, I received it in inheritance, but it's not really my money. It's a gift and I want to, it is. But yeah, I just imagine if I gave Jay a gift and then took it back the next day.

No one's taking that money back. It's your or if you gave me a gift and I just set it on the shelf and didn't use it to my advantage. Boom. Hey, get with a smart Vestor Pro so you can learn about this and feel good about investing that money. Come on, Dag. This is the range. What does the future hold for business? feel good about investing that money? Come on, Dag, this is the ranchage. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get ten different answers.

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It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. A new year is here and everyone's started making their list of I wants for the year. I want to get out of debt, I want to lose weight, I want to make more money, but that's where most people stop. The problem is without a plan those are just wishes. Most of us set goals with the best of intentions, but have zero follow-through. Real goals require a plan. That's why if you want to see real change with your money this year, you've got to get on a budget. With our Every Dollar Budgeting app, you'll make a plan for your money and get your spending under control so you actually make progress towards your goals this year.

Don't just wish for things to change with your money. Download every dollar for free and start budgeting today. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman, triple eight, eight two five. Five two two five is the phone number. It's time for our question of the day. It comes to you by and from our good friends, Wirefy. Wirefy refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment that you can

afford with a low fixed interest rate you can't get anywhere else. So this will help you stick to your budget and work your debt snowball. Go to yrefi.com today slash ramsey that's the letter yrefy.com slash ramsey may not be available in all states. All righty then you have to turn your microphone on. That's how that works. You do. Okay today's question comes from Tyrone in New Jersey He says I work for a small company with less than 20 employees Recently, I discovered that while my employer has been taking deductions from my check for my 401k they have been holding the money and making a few small deposits into my account throughout the year and

Then one larger deposit at the end of the year. Huh, I confronted my employer, and their only response was that they were sorry. Does this sound legal or unethical, and is it time to seek new employment? Yeesh. That does not sound right. I'm gonna tell you that.

It does not sound right at all. Smells very fishy. Yeah, because you're missing out on time in the market if they are not investing the money into the funds that you chose. This needs to be dealt with instantly. Instantly. Like sitting down with lots of leaders going, hey look, I got questions. Don't go in accusing, but a lot of questions and good questions. Why has this been happening?

You said sorry, that implies a mistake. Has it been remedied? What are you going to do about all the back stuff? But what's the tone? I need to know tone because I'm having a strong tone. I'm going to say serious tone. A serious tone. You don't want to be very serious. I like that you asked this. So I want to set this up well, okay the questions themselves Take care of the tone in other words You don't have to be accusatory angry a really pointed

specific line of questioning uh-huh pre thought out maybe right there in front of the on your lap Yeah, or on your phone, and in the moment, you're serious, serious face. We're not joyful about this. No, no smiles. No amiable-ness. It is seriousness, but I think the questions asked properly make it very serious. They go, this is a person who did their homework, this is a person who has follow ups,

there is a line of questioning. They feel as though they are on a witness stand and that's how it should be. You don't have to be ugly and accusatory because you're hoping to get to the bottom of this and get an actual solution. But by doing this, you're gonna find out really quick if this is a fishy situation

or if this is a fixable situation. That would be my take. I like that. I love a furrowed brow, but a nod yes. First question, how did this happen? And stop talking. How did this happen? That's a serious question.

Then the follow-up is, has it been fixed? Will this ever happen again? What happens to the money that I earned that should have been put... That's the real question. These questions are going to imply a whole lot of seriousness. That would be my posture. Spoken from a guy, by the way, who's not done it well. All right?

I mean, because I get how the heat should be pretty hot under the hood there. It should be steaming. But can we keep that in, and can we ask the questions that way? That helps us hopefully get some real responses. I hope so, yeah, this needs to be dealt with quickly. Would you seek, I almost might seek an employment lawyer

on this. Not lock up a lot of time, but maybe a consultation. I don't think, I mean, don't get me wrong, this is not the type of thing that would ever happen here, but let's just pretend I looked at my investments and said, wait a minute, like my thing didn't go in there. I mean, I would go to my leader, or who's over HR or whatever,

and say, hey, here's what I discovered. I would not be lawyering at this point. I'd be doing what you're doing, which is asking a serious question. This is the thing though, they've already apologized. That's true. We have an admission of guilt here. At this point, then I wait for the next round. My thing is, if I see it again, then yeah.

I'm sorry, I should have done a better job asking you. If you know you've got to go have this conversation with the leader, which they do, I might consult an employment lawyer. Yeah I probably would just at that point. So I know what should be. You know what I mean? This is very fishy. Listen I don't want to say do anybody wrong but they took a loan. It smells over there. That was a loan. I get it. Let's go to Denver, Colorado next where David awaits. David, how can we help?

Hi, I'm starting to work the, well, I'm working Baby Step 2, and I have been using a credit card for all of my like day-to-day purchases, and I pay that credit card off every month, but I'm looking to stop using it and I'm just a little hesitant to like start carrying a balance so that I have like the money to just use the debit card for other things and then like have to carry that as I pay that

one off too instead of just like paying it off and so I'm not sure like is it something where I should like wait a month or two and save up the extra money or Should I just go and carry the balance and pay it off as quickly as possible? so Okay, let me filter it through the baby steps. So When you're paying off debt using the debt snowball method What we say to do is you pay minimum payments on everything so that you're satisfying whatever your debts are for that month. You're paying, you know, you're doing the things on your budget that are necessary for that

month, whatever they may be. I mean, everybody pays their rent or mortgage, you pay your groceries, you pay your minimums on your debt, and then the extra money after that goes to paying off your smallest debt. So you do need to satisfy with your own cash the things that the month requires, and which for you, that's going to feel some type of way because you're used to doing that with your own cash the things that the month requires and which for you that's going to feel some type of way because you're used to doing that with your credit card. So essentially you're used to taking all of your income and throwing it to your credit card to paying it off. In this month you're going to go, no, I'm going to take my income and I'm going to use it on my life and what the margin is I'm going to use to pay off that credit card.

And what you're going to discover there when you do that is what has been true all along, which is that money was debt and you were borrowing it and now you owe it and have to pay it back. That's what that's gonna feel like. You're gonna actually feel that you've been in debt this whole time. Does that make sense?

Mm-hmm, yep. Yeah, listen, I'm proud of you. I'm glad that you've seen the light. You've had that moment. What caused you to go, you know, I don proud of you. I'm glad that you've seen the light. You've had that moment. What caused you to go, you know, I don't wanna do this anymore? It's just like, it's a little hard to plan. Like when you're, the bill is finished

on the 20th of the month, but you don't pay for it until the 15th of the next. And so it seems a lot more simple to manage the other way. Mm hmm. Well, listen, I want you to have every dollar. That's going to be a great way for you to make this transition into using your own money. And let me just say and can I know you can speak to this when you have been a person who you've let credit cards run their scam on you, which what credit cards do

is they say, hey, we'll make your life easier for you. Easy in the word in quotes. But what it really does is it steals your confidence to handle your own money. That's what it does because you have this crutch that you've been relying on that's always there. It's debt, but you don't feel like it's debt. And then the moment you remove it,

suddenly most of us are like, oh my gosh, I don't even know what to do with my own income. It feels exposing. And so that you're gonna feel that for a moment and then you're gonna go, oh wait, I actually make money and I work hard for my money and I should have the dignity of managing it and spending it in and of my control.

Okay, there you go. And what will change is I was waiting for him to respond because you know the emotion there. He's licking his wounds. He really is. But you know I love that he told you why this why the call? Why the change? The stress of living off of that credit card way that a lot of people do that. Well, I'm going to use it for this and then pay it off. And for him, he's not wired for that. And I'm just thinking about how light he's going to feel. When he just starts to do it this way, the way you've told him and he goes, okay, now I am in full control. I don't have that angst. And you're not behind a month. When you do that you're always behind a month and so what happens you put everything on your American Express

and then what happens if you lose your job? Now you just owe the money but you didn't get your paycheck. So there's there's method to the madness people. Good stuff thanks for the call David it's gonna work take a deep breath maybe three or four and it's gonna be great. All right, don't move, quick break, more of your calls coming up. She's Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave Ramsey here. Dr. John DeLoney and I are coming to a city near you

on the Money and Relationships Tour. You, the audience, will vote to choose the topics we talk about, things that impact your life, like investing in your future, money, stress, and marriage, and more. We're coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Kansas City, Fort Worth, and Phoenix in April and May 2025. Tickets are at their lowest price right now. Grab yours at ramsysolutions.com slash tour. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coma, Jade Warshaw is with me and we are here for you. 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Couple quick things here before we get back to the phones.

You need to be tuned in to a new show called 90 Day Money Makeover. I'm a little excited about this because my partner today, the colleague here next to me, Jade Warshaw, you put it on your old Instagram the other day. Ken, just tell the folks we're friends. Partner, colleague? We are friends. Thank you. I just mean in the, okay, Sam and Jade and me, we all go to dinner. We are friends. Thank you. I just mean in the okay Sam and Jade

and me say we all go to dinner we hang out. We hang out. Thank you Ken. Sorry. Just put some respect on our relationship here. Well the respect was the colleague it's a broadcasting thing. I'm old school I was trained on things like that it's all just throwaway words she's my dear friend. Thank you. We actually hang out. Let's get into it. I was bragging on you. You posted something on the gram.

And I saw it and I was like, all right. Cause I'm not paying attention to your schedule. I know, I know. 90 day money makeover. You want to tell folks about it or I can tell them about it. I'll tell them a little something. So a while back we said, what would it be like? You know, we take calls on the show all the time, Ken, and we give them advice, but we

don't know if they're actually going to take the advice. So we thought it would be really cool to follow somebody who calls into the Ramsey show and actually help them take the advice. And so we followed them over the course of 90 days and we've done a couple of these episodes and they have been really, really, really- I remember you telling me about this one Where you were out like on a farm on a damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn place over the course of 90 days is absolutely incredible. And it really just, I mean, it's amazing. So anyway, a 90 day money makeover, uh, it's available now. The first episode came out yesterday. It's on YouTube. You can go to the Ramsey show highlights page and

watch it. The first episode, we follow a single mom, Heather Hartman. Let me tell you, Heather is amazing. I feel like we're bonded for life after this, but she's such a strong, just strong woman, hard worker, but she's such a strong just strong woman hard worker But she was drowning in debt my production notes say that you may or may not have challenged her to sell some chickens a calf And even a calf is this true when I met her she had 50 chickens She had how much does a chicken fetch bro? I don't know But you told her so I told her to sell him she had three cows I can't wait to watch were you wearing overalls overalls by any chance? No, but they draw hat

They convinced me to wear boots. No flannel though. I they convinced me to wear flannel Oh, I got a tune in just to see that listen. I was in my Green Acres era I went did you buy boots for this? And they were ugly. They're terrible. What were they doing Amazon? Oh, you didn't go Timberland or anything? No, cuz I wanted people to know that it was a joke. I didn't want them to think that I was trying to. I could see you wearing some really killer Timberlands on this episode.

Maybe next time. Maybe next time. I'm sorry, I interrupted you. So you coach her up in this episode. Yeah, coach her up and she's gone through a lot. She's divorced, trying to work through a divorce. She's got children, she's got debt. It's a lot and a huge farm that she had.

So watch the episode. She's got debt. It's a lot and a huge farm that she had so watch the episode She really did does change her life So again available on YouTube or click the link in the show notes or you can just write on in there to the highlights As much as you laugh about going out to the farm. They made a good choice in choosing you not me I mean, there's no chance you're getting this listen this J crew Ralph guy out there on the chickens. I'm not, I'm not. Instant entertainment. I don't belong out there.

Jaden Kinn on a farm. Yeah, from a silly standpoint, it wouldn't be much redeemable content. They show me all these farm tools, I'd be like, what do you do with this? I have no idea and I don't like calluses either. Unless it's from a pickleball paddle or a golf club. Those are the only two that I like to get a callus from. Good to know. Good to know, Ken. All right, it's going to be fun. It's really good. It looks good. I saw it on Jade's Instagram. So it's very, very good. The trailer looks great.

Yeah, it's very good. I can't wait. You know what we need to do? We need to have you and Sam over and we'll watch it. We'll do a watch party since we hang out all the time. Yes. People want to know that. Not in the hot tub, because we won't do that. No. I didn't know that was an option. Well, you guys don't know this, but during the break, Ken told me about his hot tub. He told me about his new espresso machine.

He told me about his deck. I'm like, I need to come to y'all's house, Ken. All right. You're welcome. Take a call. Moving on. Jenny is on the line in Dallas, Texas. Jenny, how can we help?

Hi. Hi, Ken. Hi, Jane. Thank you for taking my call. You bet. I just have a question. My husband and I have about one hundred and sixty seven thousand dollars worth of debt. And I really wish I had found y'all sooner. We are on baby step two and the house is $125,000 and we have been married for seven years, seven plus years. And he has a separate account than mine.

We have two checking accounts and then he has an emergency account that he only has access to and I'm not really sure how much is in there. But it's, he does use it for emergencies and for like we have all of our vehicles paid off and, and they do need work from time to time. So that has come in handy. And he's, he's kind of, we've kind of done this thing where he pays the house note and then I pay the consumer side of it and

He's wanting me to Like just get in there and get us out of debt. Oh, okay And I'm like We need to put everything in one checking account. Right. What does he say to that? He just says, well, I want you to have your own money. And I'm just, I know that.

Is there precedent? Like is there a, can you see a reason for this? Like, are you guys coming from relationships where there was lack of trust, where there was some form of abuse or control? Is there a divorce? You know, was there anything that would cause him to say, I want to keep mine over here and you over there? See, and that's something that I've asked him before, because I don't have a problem with us having the same account. You know, that doesn't

bop. We've been together for over seven years. I mean, it's not, I'm not going anywhere. I'm, he's not going anywhere. So I'm not really sure. And at this age, I mean, we're in our fifties, so it's not like we're spring chickens and we're just trying to, I want to get all this. Well, that's kind of what made me ask because if you're coming from previous relationships, I'm just trying to get it into his head space a little bit. I'm talking to you right now and clearly you're on board with it, which I, by the way, I think you're right. Uh, I'm just trying to understand what, what's giving him fuel to that fire.

Did you have a season where you were spending like crazy? Like tell is there anything other than just him wanting it this way? Honestly I'm the one that you know gets stuff paid off and he's like always you know bragging about me you know and and I'm like well if you really want to do this I want to do the scorched earth approach and he's not a fan of that, which I can get, you know, he does put, you know, a portion of his check, every check into this other account that I don't have access to, which is for emergencies and all of that. Have you asked for access to the emergency fund account?

Yes. And what does he say? She just is kind of like, well, it's okay. I've got you covered, you know, and I'm just, it kind of frustrates me in a way. Yeah, listen, that's a red flag. That's definitely a red flag. I don't like that.

I feel like that's a controlling effort, if I'm just being honest. And what I find, and you know, Ken and I are both, you know, we both have been in long-term marriages. Ken, I've been married 18. You've been married. Coming up on 27. Right. So here's what I know.

If I say to my spouse, here's the way I'm feeling. I'm feeling like we're separate in this area and I want us to come together in this area. Or here's something that's causing me to really feel unsafe or on bad footing here. Sam is gonna come and go, okay, let's fix that. The fact that he is not aware or caring about the things that are making you feel unsafe

or making you feel separate from him is a red flag and I would take that to counseling immediately. I agree couldn't agree more I think this is a therapy session marriage issue first money issue second I also would say to you let's get him on that page let's chill out on the scorched earth and yeah teach him the momentum once we get him on the same page good hour Jade thanks. Thank you so much for joining us here, America. This is your show. This is the Ramsey Show. you