The Ramsey Show - The Borrower Is Always Slave to the Lender

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

📱Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. Ken Coleman & Jade Warshaw answer your questions and discuss: "I loaned my friend $3k then she passed away..." "I have nothing in savings but I need a car "How can I make a living in a difficult industry?" "My dad wants me to take out a business loan," "We're tired of living paycheck-to-paycheck" Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for18% off at The Nokbox 🏛Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! ☂️ Protect yourself with the right coverage—take our coverage quiz! 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🏆 We're Hiring! Join the Crusade! Apply Now! 🛳️ Live Like No One Else Cruise 🏠 Find a Trusted Real Estate Agent Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Welcome to the Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life. We want to help you win with your money. We want you to win in your work and we want you to win in your relationships. The phone number for you to jump in so we can coach you up today is triple eight, eight to five, five, two to five, triple eight, eight to five, five to two, five, alongside the really preppy. Uh, I mean, she's rocking an early nineties vibe today and I'm here for it. Little West Philadelphia born and raised. Come on, okay, I see what you did there.

She is the one, the only, the incomparable, my good friend, Jade Warshaw. And I'm just trying to hold up my side of this desk here today. I'm Ken Coleman and I'm gonna guide you through the next three hours. We're here together to help you. Jade's gonna lead out on what do we do with that money,

the budget and get rid of debt and I'll help out on how to make some more income and we'll weigh in together. You ready to go partner? Let's go giddy up. All right, Nicole starts us off in Cleveland, Ohio. Nicole, how can we help today? Hi, Jayden Kidd.

Thanks for having me on. I have a situation where I received a little bit of money from a car accident settlement. And, um, at the time my girlfriend was helping me out. She's a lifelong friend, a graduate, 90 class of 91, Willoughby South high school. And, um, I had given her, um, she had asked me if she could borrow some money upon receiving it. And she had been such a big help. And I said, on one condition, condition we went and we wrote it up and we got it notarized and everything you

know our agreement between ourselves and so she had a copy I had a copy right away she defaulted on it due to losing a couple cleaning accounts and so I tried to establish some other kind of understanding of how I was going to get my money back. Well, it started to become an issue and then the less, you know, return calls. Anyways, long story short, um, the last interact, this happened September of 2023 and it was a sum of $3,000. September of 2023 it was a sum of $3,000 I had gotten approximately 290 of it back which was from very small increments over cash

app from her in this last 12 months oh 13 months I should say at this point okay anyways we had a falling out at the end of August two months ago. Over the money? The falling out was over the money? Yes. Yes. And I knew she had had some health issues. Well, it came to my attention on October 5th, on September 1st, two months ago,

that she had passed away. Oh, wow. Shoot. So sorry. And thank you. I am sorry also to her and her family and everybody involved. Um, she will be greatly missed, but besides the point, um, you never know when it's the last time there was terrible things said, but we go so bad back so far

that I know that people say things when they're upset anyways. Um, it wasn't a good conversation and I am just wondering what my options would be to go forward. I know that she was a business owner. Well, does the debt go away with her or, um, she did have, she does have a property. I do believe that her mother's on it with her or she did have she does have a property I do believe that her mother's on it with her but she was the one that was residing in the home do I have any legal footing to try to obtain the balance of this loan that her and I had legally written up and agreed to or would it just lie within a lien on this property?

Nicole, I gotta be honest with you. I'm struggling with this one. Me too, thank you. I'm struggling. I hate that your friend passed. I hate that it happened on bad terms. I hate that you had words. She did owe you money.

And Ken, feel free to knock me back to my senses on this, but. First of all, I gotta know what you're saying first. I think you are on the same wavelength is my guess. I think that if, I'm gonna just talk from Jade. I feel like if a buddy of mine that I was really close with and we fell out over $3,000 at this point, $2,700, and the last, it caused us to fall out.

The last words that I said to her were ugly and vice versa about this money. That would be my biggest sign that I need to let it go. I'm with you. I need to let it go. And it's caused enough heartache and pain. That's just me. Nicole, I would just say very quickly,

we are sorry, very sorry for your loss, but I will tell you, our studio audience, those that are watching us on YouTube, the cringe factor for Jade and I was equal and very high. And I do not say that flippantly, I'm not saying that to insult you, I'm saying that we're completely objective people and you call it, and I will insult you, I'm saying that we're completely objective people and you called

and I will tell you, I cringed, my face cringed and so did Jade and I couldn't agree with Jade more. I think this is, first of all, I'll just give you my best, I'm not a lawyer. So number one, it doesn't feel right. I agree with Jade. She said it perfectly. I endorsed everything she just said. But my guess is, is that you don't have any legal standing either. And I don't even think you should pursue this. I think you need to let this go.

But I don't think you have any legal standing in this situation. And the time and money it would take to try to play this out with her estate, you're gonna end up spending way more than $3,000. So the studio audience is nodding their head. And here's what I think. So I think that's right.

Nicole, to your credit, let me say it like this. What this is telling me is that you're not a bad person. You're not, nothing like that. We're not trying to be ugly towards you. What I think is that you're in a tough financial situation. And what I know from personal experience is when you're in a tough financial situation and what I know from personal experience is when you're in a tough financial experience, it clouds your judgment. And I think that that's part of what's going on. And my guess is that if everything

was on the up and up for you financially and you felt more comfortable in your financial setting, this would have been a no thing but a chicken wing to you. But be true. Is that true, Nicole? Yes, sir, yes, ma'am. Yeah, she's spot on. Let's help you there. How can we help you?

We got a couple of minutes. How can we help you? What's your financial situation? Give us the super quick rundown. Oh, well, she knew what my situation was. I had just recently received a moratorium from over the whole COVID situation was I had just recently received a moratorium from over the whole COVID situation with my home.

Single white female, I have nobody, I lost over 27 people since COVID all year. So I'm on my own, I'm on full disability. She knew that that money was gonna go towards getting my mortgage back on track. So Did you get the mortgage no, I'm probably going to have to Forfeit, you know, yeah the situation which is okay because I've already said it out loud And and when you say cringe I just want to be clear because

you said no insult, you know, which is not supposed to be. And, um, I did originally with, um, looking around to see what was out there, even to even research any options I would have. And I came across the Ramsey Show. And as I was listening to that particular episode or what not, I heard a similar situation. It wasn't nobody who passed away, but Mr. Ramsey mentioned that, you know, when you loan money to somebody

and it's especially, you know, it's a personal relationship that- It changes things. Hey, Nicole. Nicole, I hate to do this to you. We are running up against a commercial break, but I want you to hang on the line. Kelly, I would like to gift her a session with one of our financial coaches.

She's in a really tough spot and they can really help you see what all your options are. So Nicole, hang on the line. We'll take care of that for you as our gift. Hang in there. Better days are ahead. We'll be right back. My wife Sharon is a major health fanatic. So I was excited to tell her that we're partnering with Field of Greens, a fruit and vegetable super drink. Each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens was doctor selected to support your heart, liver, kidneys, and metabolism for healthy weight. And we love that Field of Greens comes with a better health money back promise. Get 15% off at fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey with a promo code

Ramsey. That's fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey with the promo code Ramsey. That's field of greens dot com slash Ramsey. Triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five is the phone number to jump in here on the Ramsey show. We want to coach you up so that you're winning in your money and in your work and in your relationships. All three of those areas are interconnected. If you're losing in one of them, it's dragging the others down. And that's why we have that focus.

I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is in studio as well and we're gonna help you out. But first we gotta tell you about this. Boy, we're excited. COVID knocked out the first Ramsey Cruise and it's back and we are getting closer and closer to sell out. And if you haven't heard about it

or you've kind of heard it in passing, this is your reminder. It's called the Live Like No One Else Cruise, setting sail March 22 through 29. It's a premium Caribbean cruise. We're hitting all the spots, Turks and Caicos, Puerto Rico, St. Thomas, and the Bahamas on Holland America's

new Stetendom ship. I had to say it that way, it's the way it's written. I don't know if that's how it's pronounced. All inclusive restaurants are great, great content, including all of the Ramsay personalities, Dave, John, Jade, Rachel, George, I think me. I think I'm, am I the last one to mention in the list?

Yeah, you're in there. Yeah, you know, I'm trying to be, you know, the first shall be last, last shall be first. Okay. Some of that going on. And gonna be a lot of fun. You gonna do your magic act? If I had any magic tricks, I'd do it.

But I am gonna be holding court at the pickleball court. I'm a big pickleball player. So if we got any pickleballers on the cruise, it's gonna be fun. Love that. A little physical activity. I'm gonna get you out there. Yes.

Because we've played a few times with friends and couples and you know I think we'll get Sam out there as well. If there's basketball courts we should do a basketball tournament. People don't realize that Jade has game and so yeah yeah yeah we could do a couple two on two three on three tournaments that'll be fun. So move right now because it's gonna sell out ramsysolutions.com slash cruise, ramsysolutions.com slash cruise. I'm just curious, we have an awesome studio audience today. Just a fabulous group of people out there. Anybody out there going on the cruise?

One hand. There's one in the back. No, it's a student. Oh. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if he's going or not. He may be messing with us. I met someone a couple of days ago.

I did too. Who was on. I said, we'll see you on the cruise and all that kind of jazz. There was one guy on the front row who gave us a, I don't know, maybe he's gotta make some moves. Listen, we're 90% full. It's now or never.

Yeah, all right. We'll talk to you about it on the next break. That's right. Okay, we've got a couple brochures. It's gonna be great. All right, to the phones we go. Stephanie is in Phoenix, Arizona. Stephanie, how can we help today?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. My husband and I recently decided to kind of take our debt seriously and crawl out of all this mess. And so my question specifically is around student loans. Currently I have 10 different student loans. I never refinanced them once I completed their degree or consolidated them.

So I kind of left them as is they all have variable Interest rates and I just make one month payment. So the question is is consolidating these loans a good idea? Or should I just do the snowball method and just kind of knock them out as I go. They're variable. Are they private? They're all federal but they all have a different interest rate, which is what I mean by variable Oh, okay, all the fixed interest rates. They're just they all have a different interest rate, which is what I mean by variable. Oh, okay. They all have a fixed interest rate. They're just, they all have different interest rates. Okay, cool.

How much is it total? $75,831.55. Okay. And just real quick, what's your income combined? My husband and I make around $200,000 a year combined. Okay, great. And this is the only debt? We also have about $20,000.

Well, I mostly have the $20,000 in credit card debt. And then we do own a home. Okay, but besides the credit cards and the student loans, no other consumer debt? No, all our vehicles are paid off. Okay, great. No private loans or anything like that. Okay, so to answer your first question, I would not consolidate these.

I know all the interest rates are different, but you kind of have the perfect situation for a debt snowball, because the purpose of the debt snowball is you list them smallest to largest, and then you make minimum payments on everything, which in this case, since they're federal student loans, you can make the minimum payments quite small, right?

And then you can put all of your surplus money, all your extra margin to the smallest debt and knock it out really fast. And when you can do that, you start seeing, it's like, when you make a checklist and you get to check it off your list, you feel so good on the inside. This is that times like a thousand. So what's your smallest of the big chunk of them?

What's the smallest one? It's actually pretty small. It's only a thousand six hundred and eighty nine. But then my largest goes up to sixteen thousand. Okay. I love I know that this sounds wacky because I'm saying I love this and we're talking about debt. Okay, I love I know that this sounds wacky because I'm saying I love this and we're talking about debt But this is about as good as it gets if we're talking about Feeling the impact of the progress that you're making over the overtime. So the smallest one is

1,689 what about the credit cards? Is there anything that would go before it on the list? Yeah, well kind of I was planning on paying all the credit cards off first before I tackled this, just because the credit cards have an interest rate of like 34%. But yeah, I have a couple credit cards that only have a couple hundred dollars on it that will be paid off in the next month. Okay. So I could understand your idea of wanting to tackle the interest first. That would be an avalanche method as you look at the interest rate. But the truth of this is Stephanie, when we have done the research on who actually

completes the task of paying off their debt, it falls with the people who do the snowball method because it's psychological at that point. They feel, you know, you get the dopamine hit, you're like, I can keep going and you keep going. And so for that reason, this is one of the few times, we talk a lot about math and numbers, Kim, this is one of the few times that it's not necessarily a mathematical equation. It's more about you feeling motivated and you continuing to the end. So if I were you I'd list all of the debt, all 10 student loans plus the credit cards in order from smallest to largest. Like I said, if you were to consolidate those student loans, it would be one giant payment.

And when it's one giant payment, yes, you'd have one interest rate. But the feeling of having to attack a 75,000, trust me, I've done it before and it is not fun. It's better to be like, okay, first I do 16,000 and then I do 2,100 and then I do 16,000, and then I do 2,100, and then I do three, like that helps you mentally. So I would not consolidate in this case.

Yeah, I stand by that. I approve this message. Perfect. I love it. I'm Jade Warshaw and I approve this message. That's good. Yeah, Stephanie, I agree. This is all about momentum.

It's all about psychology. Whether it's trying to lose weight, start working out, putting on muscle, developing a new skill, knocking out a large term paper or some type of research project, the bigger that it is, the more intimidating it is. And you've gotta just put it into bite sizes.

And so I couldn't agree with Jade anymore. You'll get this, you'll get there. You really will. Yeah, we consolidated loans. Stephanie. My husband and I had 280,000 of student loans and some of them we consolidated because we thought, oh, I'm going to get the lower interest rate. And let me tell you something that I wished I hadn't done that. I wish that I had kept them in smaller pieces so that we could have felt. Yeah. Let's get the real real. Take us back. Take me back? Yeah, take us back. What are some real raw thoughts you had?

Real raw thoughts are, and you have to guard against this, when you start getting towards the end, especially with student loans, our last loan that we paid off was about 91,000, and we were able to get them to take some of the interest off so it dropped down to 71,000. But at that point, the payment was low. And it was like, well, why should,

I can't remember what it was, I think it was like $200 or 200 and something dollars a month and it was like, why would I pay off 71,000 for a $200 payment? And so you have to remind yourself what the bigger goal is. That's real though. Yeah, it is real. And by the way, that right there,

if you would allow that to stay in your head, that makes a lot of sense. It does, it does. Now the other side of that, which may not be the case for some people, but we did know that the payment plan we were on could expire and if it expired, the payment would be $900 a month. So, but just letting you know

what the way these federal income plans are, if you go on the save plan yet depending on she makes a $200,000 a year. Yeah, those student loans could probably be very very cheap And so don't get lured lured to sleep by that right? I Always kept it in the I'm in the extended repayment plan I'm gonna pay him till I die kind of plan and the isn't, you know, it's $500 a month. Yeah.

You know, it's not bad when I have, you know, everything else is manageable. So, okay. All you have to do in those moments, Ken and Stephanie is do the math on the opportunity cost. What $500, you know, $569, what that is, might not feel it in your budget, but if you start thinking about

what it would be invested over time, then you see the true cost. Mm-hmm, yeah, so true. Man, it's not about the math. It ain't about the money, money, money. There it is. She sang yesterday, and she's already singing today. Can you do something to me?

Listen, you never know where this is gonna go. Maybe a duet. Don't hold your breath. This is the Ramsey Show. Mortgage rates have dropped. So if you're thinking about buying a home in the next year, contact your local Churchill mortgage team right now. If you wait, more people will be in the market,

competing for the same homes and potentially driving up prices. Churchill will help you do the math to be sure your budget is correct, making your home a blessing and helping you build lasting wealth. Learn more at ChurchillMortgage.com. ChurchillMortgage.com This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591

NMLS ConsumerAccess.org Eagle Housing Lender 1749 Mallory Lane, suite 100 Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Ramsey show continues from our Nashville headquarters. Thrilled to have you with us. Triple eight, eight to five, five to two, five is the phone number. Jade Warsha is alongside.

I'm Ken Coleman and we're here for you. Let's go to Fredericksburg, Virginia now. And Tiffany, Tiffany, how can we help today? Hi, Ken. Hi, Jade. Thank you so much for taking my call. You bet. So my question, so I'm mentally exhausted. I feel like every time I take one step forward, I take like four steps back. So I have a 2011 GMC terrain that's becoming a lemon. I only owe $800 on it but the repairs are like almost a thousand dollars and that's how much it's worth when I look it up on Kelley Blue Book. It has a lot

of cosmetic defects so I know I won't get much for it. So, let me just wanna keep that up. It's worth $1,000? Yeah, it's worth about $1,000 on Kelly Blue Book. And it has dings and dents on it, you know, mixed strange noises. And I just know, like, I'm trying to figure out, should I just keep putting money in it? No. Or should I get a new car?

Yeah. I mean, you just laid out the math for us. You owe 800. It's going to cost 1000. So at the very least, you'd be putting 1800 more into this vehicle, but it's only worth 1000. So that math doesn't math for me at this point. What do you have saved? I don't have anything saved. Nothing at all. I have $20 in my account right now and the car is at the mechanic right now and they're they're still assessing what the issue is. It just keeps shutting off. I don't have anything. Well I've been

there with $20 in my account. I've been there with 20 cents in my account so understand who you're talking to and I know how you feel. What's your income a month? I Make about four thousand dollars a month Um, and maybe a bit more with overtime, but it's about four thousand. Is it just you or husband kids spouse? I do have kids. I have three kids Don't chew me out Jade, but I do live with my boyfriend And he makes about the same that I make a month, about 4,000.

Okay, you guys share your money? Or share the expenses? So we share the expenses, we do everything have, but as far as our own debts and things, we're just trying to tackle them separately. Okay, good. Well, let's see, well, okay, now I gotta jump in on this. Yeah, jump in, Ken.

Because they're sharing expenses, which we're not fans of. Yes. But in this situation, he knows how desperate you are with this car, correct? I hope that he would step in. Is he, has he offered? You know where I'm going, Jade.

Is he, I mean, you need help. Yeah, so he has offered the plan, and we spoke about it today. He wants us both to save up to get one vehicle because he has a company car but you can't use that for everyday getting around with the kids. So he's offered like, hey, let's come up with a plan and save up half this amount and half this amount and let's just get one family vehicle. Well, I'll step out of that one,

but I mean, I'm trying to figure out this interim situation. I'm guessing he's helping you get to work. How are you functioning so that we keep our job and can take care of things while we're figuring out what we're gonna do to get another car? What's the plan? He's a HVAC tech, so he only has a company van.

That's the only thing that he has, and he cannot use it for personal. Yeah, he can't take you around. Got it, so how are you getting to work? So I've been speaking with my supervisor, and he said it's okay for right now for me to work from home. I'm a housing coordinator for a nonprofit.

So he said for right now, it's okay that I work from home, so that's what I've been doing. Okay. What's it cost for the what's it cost bare bones for the house to function? I know you got you bring four thousand he brings four thousand but what are the household bills as a whole? So the rent is twenty four hundred. Okay. Utilities probably are about $300. And then we spend about 400 on groceries. We're trying to figure that out. But that's what we do for groceries.

$400 a month for all those people? Y'all are on the frugal frugal, frugal McFruigle. Holy moly. Here's what I would suggest because there's part of this that, I mean, we can get into this later on if you want, but there's part of this that, yeah, it's not a great situation, how you guys are combining,

it's a little confusing. However, what I'd be saying is, hey, I wanna use my money to replace my vehicle. You make enough to cover the living expenses for this month, we both live here, why don't you cover that? And I'll take care of me getting my vehicle. That way if somehow if this ever pops up again,

if for some reason down the line, things don't go the way we all are hoping they go, you know the vehicle's yours and you bought it and you paid for it, if that makes sense. So I would take, I would ask my boss, I'd say, can I have, I need six weeks because I need to save up for a new vehicle and I need $6,000 to do that.

And I would get myself in a $6,000 vehicle. And then as part of your budget, I would be having a line item there that I can upgrade over time because I'm not gonna stay in a 6,000 vehicle for long. My goal is going to be to get to a 10,000 as quickly as possible. The good news is if you buy yourself a $6,000 vehicle in the next six or seven months, it won't have gone down in value much by the time you trade it back in. So you're trading up slowly

and incrementally. That's how this works. And my goal would be, like I said, for you to kind of get into a $10,000 vehicle that you can kind of coast in for a while while you clean up whatever other mess that you have going on. So how would I do that? Because I'm only paid on the 31st and the 15th of every month and my minimums alone on all of my debt are $1,500. $1,500. So that means instead of having 4,000 like I thought, what are you gonna have? 2,500? Maybe a thousand dollars.

If that is probably even lower a month. Where's the other money going? Cause remember the plan is to tell your boyfriend, hey, you gotta cover, you gotta, like I'm not paying, I can't pay my half of the rent, you gotta cover that so I can get this car. Because you told me that you guys spend about 3,100, that's about the bare bones budget to make things work.

So he should be able to cover that. And then you're gonna have to cut back everything and, you know. And may I say, you're gonna have to get another job. You're working for a nonprofit, which I think is fine. It's lovely, but nonprofits are usually capped in the amount of income. And I love that your boss is giving you

a little bit of leniency here. You're working from home, but that's during the day. Boyfriend, if he's in it, if he's in it to win it, he'll watch the kids at night. So you can go out and hustle. And you gotta work maybe for two, three, four, five, six months, I mean, I know Tiffany, what I'm describing here doesn't sound fun,

but you've gotta increase your income because of the very thing you just brought up. You've gotta make a lot more extra income to get to the car, and I'm just messing around here. I went to a well-known used car site here and you're somewhere near Fredericksburg I'm guessing? Yes. All right. I'm seeing a 2014 Nissan Sentra 112,000 miles, $4,295. You roll up with $3,500

in cash and tell me your situation and you're driving it off the lot. I'm just giving you one example. Yeah, there's cars out there for cheaper than what I said. Yes. Yeah, and again, we got to check that and all the things, but I'm just, I wanted to give you a dose of reality. You have got to have another job, if not two extra jobs right now. Yes. Boyfriend's got to step up. Yes. We're playing house right now and it's time life is real.

And here's what I want to say. Oh. Because Ken's hitting on something. I want to say this Tiffany and this may not be you and it's probably not you but It's worth saying for the listening audience Are the are the kids you guys is together or did they come from your side or his side? Together they're yours together. Oh all of them Yes, what are we doing here? Y'all gotta get married get to the courthouse tonight to that chapel Yes. What are we doing here? Y'all gotta get married.

Get to the courthouse tonight. Get to that chapel. Protect yourself is all I'm saying. This is a protection for you. This dude needs to step up. What are we doing? But what I wanted to say, and this is not necessarily Tiffany,

but here's the thing. If you're in a situation, you're living with someone, especially, I can only speak from the female side, especially if you're a female, you're living with someone, there's kids involved, maybe they're your kids, maybe they're yours together. If you can't, and you're not married, if you can't afford to make the household run on

your own, it sets you up to feel like you have to, that you're stuck there. That's all I'm saying. And some people will stay in a relationship that's not necessarily good for them. Not you, Tiffany, not you. Some people will stay in a relationship that's not necessarily good for them. Not you, Tiffany, not you. Some people will stay in a relationship that's not necessarily good for them because they need the comfort and the support of the finance. And so I hate to see that. This is not Tiffany.

I'm not talking about her, but it reminded me of so many of the calls that we get. And this is why you got to be careful about getting in those living arrangements because it can make you sit back on your haunches financially. Thanks for the call, Tiffany. We'll be back. This is the Ramsey Show. Okay, here's the hard truth. Your investment dollars could be winding up in the pockets of companies that hold positions you don't agree with. People are unknowingly putting money into tech giants and household brands that don't match up with their core values. But here's good news.

Timothy Plan is at the forefront of biblically responsible investing. That means Timothy Plan uses a strategy that lets investors chase competitive returns while staying rock solid in their beliefs. So if you're ready to invest with a clean conscience, it's time to check out Timothy Plan. Request information at TimothyPlan.com to learn more or contact your financial advisor today to see if Timothy Plan is right for you. TimothyPlan.com. Investing includes risk, including possible loss of principal. Before investing, carefully

consider a fund's investment objective, risk, charges, and expenses contained in the prospectus or summary prospectus available at TimothyPlan.com. Read carefully before investing mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners LTD and ETFs distributed by Forsyth Fund Services LLC. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're here to help you win with your money, win in your work and winning your relationships 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is alongside. All right, so what do we got here? We got a Ramsey Network app question, is that right?

Now is this audio, James, or am I reading this question? It's just reading this one. Okay, I'm sorry, folks. I didn't do my production notes and I thought I'm not gonna try to fake my way through it. I'm just gonna ask my erstwhile captain in there and sometimes we listen to these, sometimes I read them and I didn't pay attention to my notes.

Kids, this is why you study before you take the test. All right, all right, today's Ramsey Network app question. By the way, the network app, I just wanna say this very briefly, this is fantastic stuff. We'll remind you later in the show, but we have just exclusive content over there that only people who have the app

and you can get it in the app store, Google Play, can listen. It's just a part of the show that no one else can get. We'll remind you about that later, but fantastic app and a lot of great content over there. So this question is from Jane. She asked, after many stops and starts in college and throughout my career,

I realized I'm passionate about filmmaking, in particular helping to fight and advocate for people who don't have a voice. I've since learned that it's hard to make money in this profession. Can you give me some advice and some things that I can do where I can actually earn a living? Oh my my.

That's an open-ended question there. Well, here's the quick advice is, you need to find work, different types of gigs, in many different lanes, that all have one thing in common. That allow you to use what you do best, that's your skill, to do work that you really, really enjoy, that produces a result that matters. So, you say you're passionate about filmmaking, okay,

we love the artistic filmmaking, and then you add in the specifics of the results that you wanna produce from filmmaking, ideally would be to fight bad things, to advocate for people who don't have a voice. So there is an activist, an advocating type of film or art that you wanna put out. So for instance, this could be documentary filmmaking, obviously, we see a lot of this.

And so someone has told you, or you have listened, or you have started the process of trying to get into filmmaking, and what you've discovered, and what she's discovered, Jade, is this thing called a ladder. Yeah, gotta make, yeah. And on the lower rungs what she discovered, Jade, is this thing called a ladder. Yeah, gotta make, yeah. And on the lower rungs of the ladder, Jade, we don't make a whole lot of money.

Peanuts, sometimes. Yeah, and so if I might, could I go back into the way back machine? Way back, take us way back, back in time. I'm 31, 32, and realize that I really wanna go into broadcasting, but I do not have a degree in broadcasting, I had no experience in time. I'm 31, 32 and realize that I really want to go into broadcasting, but I do not have a degree in broadcasting. I had no experience in broadcasting.

I just had what I thought was the gift of Gap, but I mean, hadn't tested it. Yeah. I have three little kids. You know my kids. I do. They were littles. And that means I got to provide.

And fabulous wife and a puppy and the whole nine yards in the house. And so the reality was is I began to do the work like Jane had to discover, okay, what does it look like to work in the film industry? What does it look like to work in broadcasting? And what I found out pretty quickly was on those lower lungs of the ladder,

it wasn't going to feed the family. So what I did is what my advice for Jane is or anybody that's listening is, is I had to have a day job that took care of business. And I was then going to have to part-time, get into broadcasting, get a little experience here, get a little experience there, and over time, step into it slowly.

In other words, embrace the latter. So you gotta have something else to fall back on while you're trying to get into filmmaking. So I wish that the advice was clear, I wish it was better, it's not. If that's what you wanna get into, any type of artistic form of telling stories or whatever, if you could find other causes,

maybe you go work for a non-profit. And you actually then begin to do video work for them instead of going into the film industry and then telling stories. That's about all I can ideate on there. You wanna add anything to that without having her on the phone? Yeah, I agree.

I think you're right. There's a part of this you have to pay your dues. And I do think when it comes to the arts, when you're first starting out, there is a part of that dream that you have that you do have to general comes to the arts, when you're first starting out, there is a part of that dream that you have that you do have to generalize in the beginning because you gotta take opportunity. And it's kind of like music artists,

when they first get signed, they have to, you know, the machine decides what they're gonna do. It's not until they're in it for a while that they finally get to go, now I do the songs I wanna write, now I do it my way. And so it might be a while for her before she's doing what she labeled here as, you know,

helping people fight and advocate for people. Just understand it could be a while before you do it exactly the way that you wanna do it and that's okay. You know what song I'm thinking about? I don't. I did it my way. How about that? I got to sing. Yeah, my grandfather used to sing that.

I love that. Yeah, there you go. James is so happy right now. Good. Good job, Ken. Yeah, I thought it was on key. I'm really impressed actually. I thought it was on key.

A little bit of a crooner kind of feel there. We're going to move on quickly. Paul in Hartford, Connecticut. Paul, how can we help? Hello guys, how are you? Good. What's going on? So basically I'm kind of in a predicament right now. Last week we were at a family reunion

and my dad come up to me and he just basically asked me to take out a loan for him of $20,000. For what? Just casually. Yeah, just casually. For what? Just casually. Yeah, just casually. For what? He says he has some business going on. He didn't give me any details. I know I don't need to take the lowing out. I just want to know how to basically turn him down without having any issues. Okay, clearly and quickly. Hey dad, pops, listen, thought about it for about two seconds, no. Not gonna do it, love you dad, you're awesome.

Not happening, what would you add to that? I thought he was gonna say, I just wanna ask you guys what was wrong with him. What you said. Well, I think he's kinda wondering that too. Yeah, listen, I'm glad that you know that you're not going to take out this loan. I think the way to do that is just simply say, Dad, I don't borrow money and so I can't help you borrow money. That was much nicer than the way I said it.

Yeah, right. No, Paul, seriously, Jade's right. I think you're respectful. Yeah, be respectful. But you're like, Dad, I don't believe in debt and I can't do this. I'm so sorry if you wanna be really polite and really respectful. I just roll differently in that situation.

Like if a family member, especially my dad, comes to me, I'm gonna be like, dad, you know what my honest answer would be? This is not what I'm recommending. But I literally would have been like, if he rolled up on me at a party like that, I looked at him and, dad, you know what my honest answer would be? This is not what I'm recommending. But I literally would have been like, if he rolled up on me at a party like that, I looked at him and went,

do you have a fever? Should you lie down? Can I get you a cold rag and a glass of water? Have you lost your ever loving mind? That's what I would have said to my dad. Is this normal? Has he asked, like, is this a habit that he'll kind of hit you up for some money here and there?

Not me, but some other family members, yeah. Okay, because it felt so casual, I wondered if it was normal. Yeah, is it that he wants, I'm just curious, is it that he wants you to just fully take it out in your name, or does he want you to co-sign, or what is it? Fully take it out in my name.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's different. Okay. Yeah, I mean, you just gotta say no, and at this point, resist making it about the details. I know I just asked details, but resist making it about like,

dad, you didn't even show me a plan or you didn't even tell me what you wanna do. It's not even about that. It's just gotta, dad, I can't take out debt for you. I'm sorry. Good luck with the business. I don't think dad has a plan. I think if he'd have asked for details,

his dad would have told him a fish story. I just don't think there's anything there. Yeah, Paul, listen, we're having a little bit of fun with what is a really tense situation. I just think you got to take the high road. Really high road, but do not have a conversation about it. To the extent that when you tell him, you make it clear to him, there is no conversation. This isn't like a, he gets a shot at a little bit of a negotiation on this.

How will he react? Honestly, I was just shocked. I didn't react at all. I was just shocked because it's a huge amount of money. But how do you think he, how's he gonna react when you tell him no? I'm not sure, but he's not going to be happy. Oh, you're sure. That chuckle was a chuckle of experience.

Yeah, it's uncomfortable. Come on, man. Yeah, this is tough. Sorry, man. I hate that that happened. That's awkward. It's an awkward situation to get put in. Let me take this above, Paul, real quick. Give our audience 20 seconds on why they should never loan family any money as a general principle. Oh well what Dave Ramsey would say is it makes Thanksgiving dinner taste different. I've done it by the way. I've borrowed money from my mother-in-law who is a wonderful generous woman and it's

not on her it's on you feel it no matter what it doesn't matter how great or nice they are you feel the weight don't do it. There you go. Great hour, Jade Warshaw. Thank you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey Show. One of the questions I get all the time is, which life insurance company should I use for my term life policy? A valid question since there are hundreds of companies out there with rates all over the place and riders and add-ons that are simply a waste of money. You need to get this done and make the right decision. That's why the only company I use and have recommended for over 25 years is Zander Insurance. Zander is a broker who shops the top term life companies for you and finds the best

rates available from the only plans I recommend. They also save you time. Whether you want to work online, over the phone, or via text, their team will cater to your needs and help you make the right decision. This is an absolute necessity, and Xander has made the process easy and convenient. Call them at 800-356-4282 or visit zander.com for instant online quotes. This is The Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life. We help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. 888-825-522 five is the phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five alongside jade warsaw and ken colman thrilled to have you with

us were here to coach you up and start with john spoke and washington john how can we help today they don't care your john and then the one with yet can answer You're John, I'm Ken. Yeah, Ken. Yes, sir. Worked too hard to be this broke. You know, you talk winning money. I'm just hoping maybe you guys could look through my situation

and figure out why I'm not winning. Okay, you broke up a little bit. So you're saying you're feeling behind financially. You worked too hard, but you're not making enough money. Is that what I'm hearing? Exactly. Okay, what kind of money are you making what's your income oh I make about seventy five seventy seven thousand a year okay and give us your financial picture what kind of debt do you have I got about five

thousand in utility tractor and then a house payment. That's it? That's it. What's your mortgage payment? Oh, I pay about $2300 a month. OK. And your take home is about what? Well, I work. I'm a farmer.

So I work for a farmer, do a little farming on my own. So it's very variable, you know, seasonal. But OK, got you. What's a own, so it's very variable, you know, seasonal, but. Okay, gotcha. What's a bad month and what's a good month? A bad month is probably about three grand, and a good month is probably six or seven. Yeah, so that house payment, Jade, feels like that's.

That's the issue. Yeah. Okay, just so I can understand, on a good month, the $7,000 month, what's more common, the $7,000 month or the $3,000 month? I got about three, four months in the wintertime that I'm in that $3,000 range. And the rest are good, $7,000 or a little bit under? Yeah, probably four to five is fairly common. Okay, yeah.

If that's what's common, four to five, then this mortgage payment is what's getting you. And that'll get you, by the way, even if you don't have debt, because you're virtually debt-free, and you owe 5,000 on a trailer, big whoop. But in this case, because you don't have any margin, you're virtually debt free. You know, you owe 5,000 on a trailer, big whoop. But in this case, because you don't have any margin, you're gonna feel it.

Because what's the payment on that tractor every month? That's about 575. 575, so that will make you, that will free up some air for you to breathe and when you pay it off, and I think you should pay it off as quickly as possible. But this mortgage. A little bit more insight on that is my wife is running a

horse boarding training facility on our property. 15 acres we got there and she's been paying that out of her horse boarding income. She makes probably 15 20,000 profit off of that a year. So there's a little bit more income there. OK. OK. So less than 2000 a month. Yeah. OK. About 17. You guys are you're still you're still somewhere between 90 to 100 grand combined. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so what I think is the issue here, are you guys combining your money or is it separate? I have my business, she has her business and then we try to live off of my let's say W-2 wages and it's combined but it's somewhat separate in the businesses. That's fine. Is there, but is there any other debt I guess like does she have debt?

No. Okay. So it's just this $5,000 tractor. So even on a bad month you should be bringing in somewhere between I don't know $4,500 a month and that still causes this mortgage to feel it and you're probably that you're probably making up for it on the good months right you're you're kind of playing catch-up when you have a good month so you never really get ahead is what it sounds like exactly well the good months

I'm saving up for kids tuition that's about about 8,200 a year. And so I try to save as much as I can. We're just, you know, I'm working 3,500 hours a year and we're constantly broke. And I'm just been doing it since I was 16 and I'm just tired. I know. And here's the hard part. Here's the hard part from where I'm sitting.

I know your work is a labor of love and you've done it all these years. So from where I'm sitting, it's hard for me to tell you how old are you? 34. 34. Okay. Well then now, honestly, now it's not that much harder for me to tell you. I thought you were a little bit older, but you're going to have to switch careers.

Now I'm just going to tell you, I think you're going to have to switch careers because the money you're either going to have to make more or you're going to have to sacrifice in this mortgage. It's one or the other. Yeah. Because eating up half your money. Yeah. And a real quick question on that.

The mortgage, is that on a larger property that is your wife boarding the horses? That's why we've got this all this big old place because so she can board the horses? Correct. Yeah. 15 acres. Yeah, so what could you make on that house if you sold it today? About 500. My man.

Talking to you real, real right now, you're exhausted. And I love that your wife wants to work with the horses. Sounds like that's a labor of love, but she can work with horses another way on somebody else's dime. But that property has eaten you alive and it's also a wonderful exit strategy. And I agree with my colleague.

I think it's time for you to change the type of work you're doing. I think you can do similar work, but you need a better paying situation where you're not exchanging so much time for this money. And I think she's absolutely right. But I would sell the house and now all of a sudden we're out of that and we got $500,000. That's not chump change.

It's sure not. To downsize, maybe pay cash and have no house payment at all. And you change your working situation to where you're making decent money and you're making decent money, but it feels like the exchange. It feels like the time you're exchanging for that money is not worth it.

I think that's clear. So I would make those two changes. I think Jade's absolutely right. Now, this is not for the faint of heart because you have to sit down with the wifey and say, hey, but listen, I don't- That's a new life. That would be a new life for you.

It's a new life, but I still think she can be involved with horses and maybe somebody pays her and it's not an expense for you guys anymore. Does that make sense? Yeah. You talk about changing careers though, and this is all I know.

No, no, no, no. Okay, well, let's say this. I don't know that it has to be a complete lane switch, but I think it needs to be a, change your current situation. In other words, when you say that's all you know, how would you describe it? Give it to me in two or three words.

All I know is blank kind of work. What would it be? All I know is farming. It's what I've done since I was a teenager. Got you. And I sucked at school so... That's fine. Let me introduce you. I understand, but what is the number one skill and I only got you got to be real quick. What's the number one skill you've developed as a result of farming? Be more specific. What is that skill? I don't know, raising a crop. Okay, great.

I would say logistics. I'd say project management. I'm going to go a little bit further. Process. I'm going to go really, really deep on this. I think that you know process and you can repeat process. I think you need to get in the trades, my friend. You need to get in the trades.

Or you could be making high 90s six figures, electrician, plumber, HVAC. It's all process work. If you can raise a crop, you can learn how to fix a machine. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Don't say you're not educated. You're just educated.

Yeah. And you also, you olaid me too, my friend. You're going to have a hard conversation with the wifey. We got to sell that house. Change our living situation soon. Also, you ola'd me too, my friend. You gotta have a hard conversation with the wifey. We gotta sell that house, change our living situation soon. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers.

Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and

seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Folks, changing your family tree takes

more than rice and beans and side hustles. It's also about transferring the big financial risks off your family by having the right kinds of coverage in place. That's why my team created the Coverage Checkup Quiz. It only takes about five minutes to find out what types of insurance you need and don't need to protect your finances. Make this quiz one of your regular checkups starting right now at ramsysolutions.com slash checkup. That's ramsysolutions.com slash checkup. Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

Thrilled to have you with us here on the Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Isaac is gonna join us now in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Isaac, how can we help? Yeah, good afternoon, Ken. I just want to say that I really appreciate the free resource that you guys provide. It's a lot of wisdom and guidance

for some young people like me and people that are just looking for help. Well, thank you for saying that. We're glad you're here today. How can we help? Yeah, so I'll give you my situation and then I'll ask my question at the end. So I'm 24 years old. I'm on baby step 3B kind of slash 4. I don't plan to buy a house in the next 18 to 24 months. So currently I'm renting and putting 15% of

my salary towards retirement. Right now I've got 4% in my HSA and 11% towards my Roth 401k. And so if you were in my shoes, would you recommend that I continue to put that 15% towards a retirement and then have a smaller amount set towards a down payment in the future? Or would you put either more towards a down payment or even more than 15% towards retirement since I'm not planning to buy in the next year or so. When are you planning to buy? Like if you had your way, when would you want to buy? Probably two years from now.

Okay. So I just reverse engineer it. I'd say if I want to buy, if I want to be sitting in the house two years from now Then i'd ask myself. Okay, how much would that house cost? That way I can figure out what the down payment would be and then I can work it backwards and say okay Let's pretend I need to put 80. Let's pretend. I need to put 80 000 down How long is it going to take me to get that? And if you run that math you you might find okay. I do need to start now and something tells me Yeah, if you want that math, you might find, okay, I do need to start now. And something tells me, yeah, if you wanna do it comfortably,

you might wanna start now. And here's the thing, here's your options. You either start now and you do a mix of, I do a little bit, you know, you've done the calculator and say, okay, I'm gonna put $500 away every month towards this and the rest goes towards baby step four you might find you can do both You might find that you can do the full 15% and put aside. I was thinking can we dive into your numbers a little bit?

Isaac what is your take home? Yeah, what's your take? Oh, I was actually just about to mention that I'm I've got the Ramsey solution Calculator in front of me. I've got how much can I afford and yes perfect with my with my kick-home pay per month I'm bringing in 4,800 a month okay and so that would allow me according according to your guys's calculator to afford a house that's in a range of about $116,000. So that's $1,200 a month for mortgage. Yeah, but before we get to that, I wanna stay on this line here.

So $4,800 a month is your take home. How much margin do you have after you take care of all your necessities? Because you started off the call saying, I'm in 3B4, and I'm just curious what kind of margin you have after you're taking care of necessities. Yep, just under $1,300 per month. Is that including the 15% to retirement or is that excluding that?

Oh, well then I'm with Jay. Including the 15% and then I've got that's just over a thousand that's going towards my HSA at 401k. Okay, so you're putting around $720 into investing and then after that you still have $1300. I just want to be clear. Yeah. Correct. Okay, so I'm doing both. How much when you do the calculator, how much does it say your down payment needs to be? Down payment is $ 23,300.

Okay and so then run it back what's that divided by 24 months? Yeah well and so I guess bingo maybe it adds a wrinkle maybe it doesn't okay um I've got I've got 36,000 currently saved up just kind of for in the future. I, I might be getting married, might want to have a wedding ring. And that's not your three to six months expenses. That's just extra extra. Correct. Correct.

So that's on top of the three to six months of expenses. Um, are you seeing anybody or is this just hypothetical? Uh, that is a bit of a, that is a bit of a funky story there. I kind of like to know. I want to know too. OK, so let's let's prioritize this. Let's pretend we had to make a list of priorities because essentially that's what we're doing first on the list is investing.

That's a green check. Next on the list is is it a house or is it miss the future? Mrs. Isaac? Are you asking her saying, you tell me the priorities. Cause that lets me know if this 36,000 is up for grabs or if it's not. In other words, are you buying a house for you or are you just going to wait until we get serious and we're ready to get married? Yeah, I've got a buddy of mine from church who's got a who's allowing me to rent for relatively

cheap so currently I don't see a lot of reason to buy a house for myself right now and so I've kind of got this about 36,000 in a high yield savings account and fortunately or unfortunately it's kind of just sitting there and getting four and a half percent on growth. That's fine. I think for you, where you're at, you're definitely at less than a five year play, I think. If you were like, Jay, this is more than five years out,

I'd say go ahead and invest it. But I think it's a less than five year play. And if I were you, I'd do the priority. I'd keep investing, number one. I'd keep the 36,000 exactly where it's at. And you could label it wifey, wedding, whatever, life to be, down payment, and then say, okay, I'm also gonna save an additional $12,000 each year

to put with that so that when the time comes, I can do engagement ring, put towards a wedding, and put towards down payment. Don't forget the honeymoon. Well, let somebody else buy your honeymoon. That's a gift. Really? I think so.

Is that a thing? Quick question with that. Would you ever recommend putting more than 15% towards retirement at this point? At this point, no, but later on, definitely. The one question I had for you, Isaac, is I thought I heard you say, when you told me the mix of what your investing was,

it sounded like you were putting more towards your HSA than your Roth 401K, and that was a question mark for me. Why are you doing that, if I understood correctly? So, no, it's not that 4% towards my HSA. So that's the maximum that I can contribute to my HSA. Okay. 11% towards my Roth 401k. And yeah, my question is, are you, why wouldn't you just max the Roth 401k first because it's the better investment vehicle unless you have a health

situation I don't know about, which is. Uh, no, I guess what I had heard is that an HSA you got triple tax advantage and I figured that I would have maxed that out and then and then put the other 11% of the 15% towards my Roth. You do it is triple tax advantage but all in all if I were going to go in the order of going to go in the order of best practice investing, I would max out the Roth 401k first, simply because it is Roth status and it's not just for medical situations. Now don't get me wrong,

your HSA will convert at age 65 to regular retirement, but until then the truth is it would be caught up in medical expenses So unless you were like hey Jade trust me I need this because I go to the doctor a lot or whatever I would do a Roth 401k first and then I'd go to a Roth IRA and then I'd go to an HSA I'd let that be my final option Okay, so you would go Roth 401k and a Roth IRA. Mm-hmm. Do you have Do you have a match on your Roth 401k?

Yep, and so I'm already hitting that match. Okay, yeah, I'd max that bad boy out, go to the Roth IRA, and then I'd probably do the HSA less. It's still a great vehicle, but for what you get and access to it, I'd start with the others first. Congrats, by the way, young man. I mean, listen, you got your act together. I mean, you really do.

And by the way, what I was saying, I just wanna clarify that, Ken. I'm just happy you're investing. Right. Like, if you take that advice, if you don't, you'll be just fine. It was just me splitting hairs. Yeah, you're so early in the game.

And so whatever your romantic situation is, we're rooting for you on the timeline. But I love just stacking that money. Just stack the game. And so whatever your romantic situation is, we're rooting for you on the timeline. But I love just stacking that money. Just stack the money. Cause eventually you're gonna get a house. Whoever the Mrs. is or whatever, you know? And so love that you got the low cost rent. Love that. Love your discipline.

Good job. Yeah. Hope that cleared everything up for you, man. But wow, he's gonna be winning big. Don't you wish we had done this earlier? Oh, 23, 24 years of age? Are you kidding me right now? But alas, we're helping others. Hey, quick break and we'll be right back. Don't you dare move.

This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is the season for Halloween. It's October. We're wearing costumes and we're wearing masks. So if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. And while you're thinking about it,

I want you to be honest. A lot of us hide ourselves. We hide our true selves behind costumes and masks all the time. We do this at work, we do this around our friends, we do this around our families. We even do this when we look at ourselves in the mirror. I know because I've been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst.

If you feel like you're stuck hiding behind masks and costumes all the time, if you find yourself hiding from your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can be honest, where you can talk to somebody else and reflect and learn and you can accept all the parts of yourself over time and start living an authentic life. Masks and costumes should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. And if you're considering therapy, try calling my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for you and your schedule.

Just fill out a short online survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterH-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's better. H e l p dot com slash Deloney. Listen up trying to reach your money goals without a rock solid budget is like trying to climb Mount Everest and ice skates. It isn't going to work. That's why we built the every dollar app to help you win with money.

It's the simplest, most straightforward way to track your spending and give every dollar a job. That way you can stop letting your money push you around and start reaching those money goals. Download every dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. So glad you're with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is here as well. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225. Hey, student loan debt is an epidemic. I don't think that's a breaking news headline there. And defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse, but our Question of the Day sponsor, Wirefi,

refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment so you can afford with a low fixed interest rate you couldn't get anywhere else. So go to yrefy.com today, yrefy.com slash ramsey, yrefy.com slash ramsey. It may not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Andre in South Dakota. He says, I'm an entrepreneur and I own a technology business.

I wanna take courses online related to the service that I provide so I can learn more skills and be up to date on current technologies. The problem is that the courses cost thousands of dollars and I'm constantly being told that I should just watch free YouTube videos to learn what I need to know to further my business. I don't think these videos go in depth enough

and I'd like your opinion on if I should spend the money and the time it would take to complete the courses, I would still have time to do both my business and the courses. Well, the way the question is set up, Jade, I'm gonna answer it. Okay, Ken. Watch the YouTube videos.

And if you watch the YouTube videos and it doesn't give you enough, you say to yourself, this is not enough. Now I need to go pay for a course. So I do think there are some free stuff out there that you can get, but I'm a big proponent when it comes to technology of actually vetting. Yeah. Let's call it comes to technology of actually vetting. Yeah.

Let's call it two to three at a minimum of technology schools. I endorse Bethel technology, Bethel Tech and fabulous betheltech.net and call them up, tell them Ken sent you. I mean, they've got a nine month program. Costs about $15,000 for a full blown certificate. They've got a $5,000 for a full-blown certificate.

They've got a $5,000 program they can take in a much shorter time that's micro-credentials. Both will get you hired. And I've sent thousands and thousands of people there and they're making good money. So it's one of those situations where you don't need a four-year degree for tech. What you need is a quality program,

and I'll just give you a couple of characteristics you're looking for. How long have they been around? Yeah. Do they have strong placement? They can actually prove to you that they've got a history of placing students that come through their program into good paying jobs

with a track for growth. And that's what you're looking for. And is it reasonably priced? And so based on that, based on, again, you can look in the technology field and say, okay, I wanna go into data analytics. Okay, then go to multiple companies and look at what's required for a data analytics job,

and then go, okay, this is simple, check the box here, and make sure it's credible. You could use a YouTube as a prerequisite and to get your feet wet. Yeah, but there's a difference. And I think that's how you know. So thanks for the question, Andre, appreciate that. To the funds we go,

Kyle is joining us now in Seattle, Washington. Kyle, how can we help? Hi, yeah. I'm in a bit of a situation, trying to figure out just a lot of debt and trying to figure out how to stop living paycheck to paycheck and like just like not being comfortable at all like financially. Me and my girlfriend have a three and a half year old who are currently living in like a single bedroom apartment

and just feels like we're not really getting anywhere. So I'm trying to figure out like the first steps I got to take here. Tell us about the money because a lot of times all all signs point back to that income. So what's going on with the income? So the you want the debt or the income first tell me the income first between you and her Combined and then tell me you're right now right now I make just around 50 gross and Right now I make just around 50 gross and my girlfriend she just started a new job and she's

Making around like I would say like around 30 right now gross Can you tell me it in take-home pay tell me what you see on your checks every month what you take? Oh my check I'm gonna say without any overtime because there's no overtime at the moment without any overtime I make about just close to 1,400 like 1,380 per paycheck. And you get paid twice a month? Yeah. Okay and then what about her? She just started her job but they're gonna be having her at about 30 hours a week at the moment just starting out so she's gonna be making probably like just like around a thousand for a paycheck or a little under okay I don't know exactly yet because she hasn't gotten that first check yet okay and how old

are you guys I'm 24 and she's 22 okay there's your there's your issue before we get into the debt or in anything like that I think the issue is it's still a little slim, especially, you know, if you weren't combining money, which you're not married, so I wouldn't suggest you to combine money. I'm assuming you're getting married though soon, right? Uh, yeah, that's the plan. She's the one I got my eyes on and she feels the same way. So we've been together for a little over a year or so. Okay, if I had to ask you, is it 100%? Would you say yes or no? That you want to marry her?

Yes, 100%. Okay, so sidebar, I'd make that happen legally sooner than later. Yeah, like bro, can I just be man to man with you? You don't have your eyes on her, you're living with her. This isn't like I kinda got my eye on you, kid. You're living with her with a kid. So it's time for you to commit.

I'm with Jade on that. Not trying to be too intense with you, but it's time for us to decide to actually play this thing out and make her your wife and let's get serious about getting our life together. For many reasons, some are legal, some, but what I'm talking about for this current purpose out of the many reasons is you guys can then focus together You have a life together. You have a family together. You can combine your money safely. Then you can say, okay

What's the debt and we can start to tackle the debt? Because I think that if you guys start attacking this separately, which you will need to do until you're married It's just gonna cause it to be difficult and there is going to be confusion. See what I'm saying? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So tell me about the date, the debt. Um, so, uh, her only debt really is just her car. She was like just over 20. And then me, I have a little more than my car.

I as well, oh, just a little over 20. And then I have, um, some, a little bit of IRS debt, some stuff in collection. So like after the car- Tell me the amount, what's IRS debt? Tell me the amount. I think it's around like 2000 right now, 2500. Okay.

Like with all the debt combined after my car, like I probably have the 20 on the car and then like another 10 or so. Yeah, but can you tell me what it is? Because it's important because for instance, IRS debt needs to go lickety split to the top. That's the most important debt. Yeah, last time I checked was a few months ago. It was in the 2000s. Okay, so 2000s to IRS. What else? I have

1800 in collections and then I have 2500 on credit card. Okay, and then I owe family some money about three to four thousand to my family Okay, so if I'm looking at this until you guys get the money combined you have to look at it as just yours So for tip for right now now I'll tell you with 2,700 and the amount of debt that I hear see here you're gonna have to pick up work work work work working day and night like Michael Jackson said working day and night yeah so I actually I actually did I didn't mention this I forgot to it's so recent

I started a second job it's just on the side because my full-time job switched me to four days a week 10 hour shifts and So I picked up a second job because there's no overtime at the moment and I'm working like kind of like up and down Two days a week, but like one week I'll get like two eight hours shifts But next week I only get like one five hours like it averages so like around 20 20 hours every paycheck Which is how much money? Uh, probably make about three to 400 paycheck. Okay. So maybe another seven 50 a month.

Yeah, I would say another seven 50. Okay. Good. So good. And I want you to do that and more keep going. And so let's talk about how we're going to attack this debt. The first thing is the IRS. The next thing is going to be collections, but with collections about how we're going to attack this debt. The first thing is the IRS. The next thing is going to be collections.

But with collections, you're not going to pay the full 1800. You're going to call them up and settle for half. You're going to save up $800 and you're going to call them and say, hey, this is all I have. Will you settle? They're going to say yes after several attempts. And then you're going to ask for it in writing. And then we're going to clear the family debt.

And then we're going to start with those credit cards. I want gonna clear the family debt and then we're gonna start with those credit Cards, I want both of you to look at your cars Because if you can sell them and break even I want you to get something cheaper than 20,000 and that's for both of you Yeah, it's really good man Youngsters youngsters. I was once young they can dig out of it. She is Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman, and this is The Ramsey Show. Hey good folks, Dr. John Deloney here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do

and where you do it. So guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we wanna see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copyediting, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramsysolutions.com slash careers. That's ramsysolutions.com slash careers.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and I'm alongside Jade Warshaw. The phone number is 888-825-5225. We'd love to coach yousey show. I'm Ken Coleman and I'm alongside Jade Warshaw. The phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five We'd love to coach you up today The best way to make the most of your money is by creating and sticking to a budget every dollar is our budget tool It allows you to track Expenses plan spending say for what matters most to you all in an easy to use app and keep your pulse on your progress all in an easy to use app and keep your pulse on your progress. Download EveryDollar for free in the App Store

or Google Play or you click on the link in the description if you're listening on your favorite podcast app or you're watching on YouTube. I wanna say something more about this. You can say whatever you like. Every dollar, I'm gonna use this as a segue. I probably don't need to do this, but EveryDollar is the crux of everything that we teach

via the baby steps, right? You do the baby steps, but it's all based on your budget. Your budget allows you to do it. And the whole reason that you're doing it, the whole reason that you're getting on a budget, you're walking through the baby steps, you're doing these things that make you a financially responsible adult,

is because you wanna have the life that you wanna have. And for everybody, that why is a little bit different. But ultimately, I think it's fair to say, Ken, that we want to be able to spend money on the things that we value and do it without guilt and shame and debt and regret and all of that. We want to be able to provide for our families. I think we all kind of feel that yesterday. Remember the the guy called in because you and I were on the show together yesterday.

He was a young cat, 23 years old. He had saved $100,000. He lived with his parents. He saved $100,000. And he had another $37,000 in an HYSA. And then he had another $7,000 cash. Oh, I remember this call. I told Stacey about this call.

I was like, we had fun Oh, I remember this call. So I told Stacey about this call. I was like, okay We had fun with this we did so he had $142,000 saved at 23 and he said okay, I'm about to move out. I Need to buy a new car. How much can I spend remember Ken? Tell us what happened next? well, so you went first and because I'm a gentleman, and wanted you to walk through the door first, and you said, I'd spend about $30,000. I was genuinely shocked and was far more conservative and led a rally against you.

You did. With the studio audience in a fun way. I said, who's coming with me? It was my Jerry Maguire moment and the audience was with me because I recommended that he spend 15,000. And now mind you, for those wondering, he made 55,000 a year. Yeah. Why do I feel like you're slowly walking me into a corner? Because I went, I really do this. I looked at the comments because at the time you said the studio audience was against me. They were like 30,000. That's too much.

It's not so much they were against you, they were just with me. They were with you. But then I looked at actual comments and y'all were like, Jade is tripping. She told this man to buy a $30,000 car. So they were, so the masses were also with me. Yeah, and I was like,

I feel like I should have explained my thought process better. Because here's the thing, the rule is, Look at you. The rule is, yeah, you don't want things to be, you don't want things with a- You can't replay your play. You played your play.

I'm defending it, cause I wanna show everybody why I was not wrong in this. I didn't think you were wrong, I just thought you were generous. Because I'm like- He had the cash. Yeah, it was a $2,000 difference. If you wanna hit our rule,

which is you don't want things with a motor, cars cars you don't want it to be any more than half of what you take home like what your yearly salary is his was 55 I'm like, yeah spend 30 technically I probably should have said 2750 but fine But what I wanted people to take away is he did all of that work all of those baby step Moves because the point is you live like no one else so that you get to live like no one else. It just so happened, he was 23 and did it early. Cause here's the thing, he had a lump sum

of $100,000 saved. If he doesn't touch that, if he does nothing else, Ken, when he retires, he's gonna have like $6 million. He can get the $30,000 car. And what I want people to remember is we do this so that, and it's not so that we can be a tightwad, it's so that we can live our life. Looks like the commenters got to you. I'm just saying.

So now let me come back. I want people to know that there's another side. Not that you can't, I know I'm coming at you hard. No, you're not, you're not at all. No, and I wanna say, I was having fun. And, you're not. You're not at all. No, and I want to say, I was having fun. And if you watch that back, I was having fun. I was basing my 15,000 on the reality of how tight that kid was.

Do you remember? Yeah, he was very frugal at heart. You're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't think that your recommendation was wrong. It's not even a right or wrong. You were given a recommendation. I totally get your point.

He had the money to do that. I'm not a letter of the law guy in that particular situation So I don't mind that it was 27, so yeah, I had no problem with your answer That was me having fun and you know that we discussed that So the cut to the commenters I was just saying for this kid I knew there was no chance he wouldn't spend that well first of all when you said $30,000 car to him I promise you his eyes bugged out of his his head Oh, they did because he was like, oh no, no, no, no, no. I was like, but you could and here's yeah So I'm with you point here. The bigger point here is

If you can do what it takes if you can sacrifice to win early on you utilize the power of your every dollar budget and you can be anything like this kid whether it's at 23 years old Or 33 years old, the point is he buckled down and saved $100,000. Yeah. At 23. Yeah, and he could afford a nice car, and you said. No, no, no, the bigger thing here, Ken,

is the investment play. No, I know. If he doesn't put another dime, if you plug this into the ramsysolutions.com calculator, $6.5 million. He said if he doesn't touch it, I got that. But I'm just trying to come to my friend's defense and say, you were just saying, man, young man,

go get yourself a nice car. Go get yourself a nice car and don't feel any kind of way about it. This is why you stay out of the comments. I commented back for the very first time. I'm sorry for who I commented to. I literally was like. You can't, you gotta let the comments ride.

And it wasn't salty, but I think somebody was like, Jade, you forgot the rule that, you know, he makes $50,000. I was like, bro, I didn't forget the rule. It's a $2,000 difference. He's going to have $6.5 million. It doesn't matter. I feel like you feel better now. Do you feel better? Because you got that out. I'm gonna feel the same. Like I went home and ate a sandwich. I'll be honest, it wasn't that big of a deal, but. No, it was all good fun, but I do remember that. But yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's interesting. OK, so this will lead to another conversation.

OK. OK. The spirit of the rule. Yes. Versus the specifics of the rule. OK. I love that. I do think, because we have a lot of new listeners, James. And I want to cover this. of the rule versus the specifics of the rule. Okay, I love that.

I do think, because we have a lot of new listeners, James, and I wanna cover this. I also wanna give our callers full time. But because we've got into this, I do think, because we have new people, I feel like every week we have people calling in going, I just started listening to the show. So I would like us, and since you're a money personality,

I'll play along, but I'll cede to you here. Let's talk about that. Some of the things we talk about, there's a spirit to a rule. Yes. And then there's some specifics to a rule. Do you care to shed more light? Because I think it's important.

Yes, I want to make sure that everybody knows the baby steps are the baby steps. We're never gonna tell you to not work the baby steps. We're never gonna tell you to do the baby steps are the baby steps. We're never going to tell you to not work the baby steps. We're never going to tell you to do the baby steps out of order. We are very integral on that because we know that it works. So if anybody ever calls in and is like, well, could I do baby step two before I do baby? It's always the answer is always going to be no. Now within that there is guidance and there are rules of thumb, so to speak, or there are kind of just ideas that we have found work over time.

But you have to also go, it's not legalism. Like we're not, lightning is not gonna strike you. For example, we say your home mortgage should be no more than 25% of your take-home pay. Great example. If someone calls and their mortgage is 28%, you're okay, boo. Yeah, we don't hang up on you. You'll be fine

You'll be strong and the same thing with this Yes as a rule of thumb you don't want your vehicles to be more than 50% of what you earn in a year And the reason for that is simply the fact that it's a depreciating Depreciating asset it's going down in value. It's just we're trying to make sure everything is a balanced scale And so if my guy Spends a little bit more you want to know what? Lightning's not going to strike him. That's right. It'll be all right. And that's where the spirit versus the specific. So for instance, in his case, he was wildly, wildly financially fit. Like he was, he was a bodybuilder. He was in great, great shape,

and thus the spirit plays versus the specific. And I just want people to understand some of that stuff. It's like, some of our audience is like, and I love our audience. I cannot tell you how much I love these folks. But they like to take us to task on that. But they came at you yesterday in the comments because of the percentages there.

And so I think it's a healthy conversation. It is. This is all about giving you a very clear framework. That's what the baby steps are. That if you follow those steps, you're going to win. Let me tell you, I was like that meme of Homer Simpson when he comes out of the bushes for a minute in the comments. I never go in the comments.

And I got to tell you,. I'll never go again. And I gotta tell you, and I lucked out just because I picked the 15 grand because I knew that would stretch that kid beyond his wildest imagination or else I would have been killed too. So, hey, good discussion, all right? Good hour.

This is the Ramsey Show. Hey! You're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.