The Ramsey Show - The Key to Financial Success: Slow and Steady

Starting point is 00:00:00 From the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by number one bestselling author, Mr. Ken Coleman, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. We'll help you with your money, making more of it, keeping more of it, spending less, all of the issues, and Ken is the man when it comes to,

Starting point is 00:00:39 how do I make more income? Because that is my greatest wealth building tool. Maybe that's switching jobs. Mo money, George money new career path There we go some short-term side hustles, whatever it is. We want to help you make the most of your money Happy Friday, sir. You as well. We may have a give a brand new bomber jacket I always try to impress Ken with my wardrobe. This is one I haven't seen before he looks impressed. I love it It's a good look. It's a dark chocolate if I'm gonna be really honest

Starting point is 00:01:03 Can I just came down the from our event center where we have's a dark chocolate. If I'm gonna be really honest, Ken, I just came down from our event center where we have our money and marriage event and I'm looking out at some lovely couples who came to join us. We have actually a really good looking, I was looking at them before the show, it's a pretty good looking group of people. You say it like it's rare, Ken.

Starting point is 00:01:16 Well, it is rare, I'll be honest. But today, kid, we've got a great looking group out there, full studio lobby, we're gonna have fun today, that's what George and I do. We're gonna coach you, but we're gonna have some fun. So, you know, this stuff doesn't have to be dour. As I say, if we don't laugh, we cry. And by the way, I gotta say one other thing

Starting point is 00:01:32 on the bomber jacket. It matches your beard perfectly. Ken, I need to just carry you in my pocket just to compliment me. Thank you so much. Your pocket's too small for me to fit in. I'm a small man. True story.

Starting point is 00:01:43 Skinny jeans will do that. That's right. All right, Mary's jeans will do that. That's right. All right, Mary's up first in Miami. What's going on, Mary? How can we help? Uh-oh. We- There we are.

Starting point is 00:01:53 Hello? Yes. You sounded like a monster for a second, but now we got you back. Okay. Okay, great. We actually were sold a home illegally, and we are wondering if we should claim bankruptcy.

Starting point is 00:02:09 Tell us a little bit more. Someone sold you a house that they were not legally allowed to sell you? What happened? So we bought the home in April of 2023 and we wanted to get some things done like fencing and encapsulate the crawl space underneath and we learned that when we went to go get the property surveyed for the fencing that the property didn't exist and so there were no permits there's no CO on the house. And- What do you mean the property didn't exist?

Starting point is 00:02:51 They told us the property didn't exist in the county. There was no house that was on that property. I'm confused, you bought a house site unseen? No, we bought the house, we saw the house, the county had no idea the house was built. Oh, so the house was illegally built on that land in the first place with no permits, and then that person sold it to you. How did you even go through the closing process?

Starting point is 00:03:15 Was it just done through the seller? No, it was done through all of the bells and whistles that you're supposed to do with inspectors and real estate agents and lenders and everything. And they still sold it to us. I mean, aren't there titles to be cleared? I mean, I'm just so confused how nobody caught this. Yeah. So, so the lenders were in the bylaws of our contract. They were supposed to get the CEO and obtain it five days after closing and they never did. And then we didn't find out about all of that. Um, this is our first home. We were first time home buyers. So we learned a lot in this process.

Starting point is 00:03:53 What'd you pay for it? Uh, two, two 59. And you got a loan on that? Yes. It's a USDA loan. Okay. How much was the loan for? It was for two 59. So you put nothing down with a USDA loan. Okay, how much was the loan for? It was for $259. So you put nothing down with the USDA loan? No, we did put down $12,000.

Starting point is 00:04:11 Okay. So why are you having to file bankroll? I get what we just heard. I'm now understanding that, but it feels like a lot of people dropped the ball and it was before you. And so this has got to shake out somehow. So what have you done so far?

Starting point is 00:04:29 What do you know? What do you not know? So basically we have a lawyer on it now. We tried to get help without a lawyer and tried to talk to the builder and gave him all the documents and tried to actually get him to agree to buy back the house. He obviously did not agree to that. In the

Starting point is 00:04:51 process of all of this, the house is actually, it was creating more mold, the floors are sinking, the walls are leaning. We're starting to see things. Did you get an inspection? We did, yes. And they caught none of this? They caught none of it. This is a scam. Yeah, it was terrible. Yeah, was the inspector friends with the builder? We're not sure, but it seems like it. So this wasn't a resale, somebody else living in it,

Starting point is 00:05:18 this was a builder built this essentially as a spec house on that property. As a brand new home, he said it was a brand new build. Oh, well do you have a good- And he actually built on a 1950s foundation. Oh, of course. Do you have a good lawyer? We're not sure.

Starting point is 00:05:32 At this point, nothing has happened and we're- No, no, no, hold on. He's dragging it out. Hold on a second. Okay. Now your lawyer's dragging this out? Well, the lawyer's not dragging it out, but there's not really a lot of motion happening. we're just we just keep hanging. Mary, Mary, Mary, it is time for you to get real seriously mad and get going with it. Fire the lawyer now.

Starting point is 00:06:01 You are getting jerked around like I've never even I can't remember the last time I heard a story like this and I feel bad for you, but you are gonna have to stand up and fight. So the builder screwed you, the inspector screwed you, sounds like your lawyer is screwing you over and you are the common denominator in this and I hate that this is happening, but I gotta tell you, George, if I were in this situation, I promise you I'd have the builder begging

Starting point is 00:06:29 for mercy because he is liable. The inspector is liable, and your lawyer is a scumbag. I could go take care of this in court, and I could get a law degree out of a Froot Loops box and take care of this situation. Am I right, George? Am I missing anything? No, this is the Ken Coleman Esquire energy you need, Mary. I'm more pissed off than you are, Mary.

Starting point is 00:06:53 This is America. I'd be taking that builder to the cleaners with a scary attorney right now. I'd go to the local news. They love this crap. This is like- We tried the local news. They told us it was a legal issue. Oh my gosh.

Starting point is 00:07:08 Okay. Mary, all you do is make excuses for why you're getting abused. What, okay, so what's the ramifications here of you living in a home that has no record? Are they going to evict you? I assume you can't even live in it. No, we can't live in it, So we actually don't live in it.

Starting point is 00:07:25 Are you renting with staying with family? Okay, so you're renting right now, but you still make payments. Have you talked to the lender that they basically have bad collateral here? Yes, they said they didn't care. They don't care you still owe us the payment every single month.

Starting point is 00:07:39 Yes. And you can't sell it. I think your only way out of this, and again, I'm not an attorney, this is for your attorney to deal with, you gotta sue this builder to get your money back. Get an attorney. With what we're trying to do.

Starting point is 00:07:50 Get rid of your current attorney. But do not file bankruptcy. That's not the solution here. No. The solution is to take this builder to court, sue them, potentially get the inspector involved because they clearly can't do their job well, and then collect on whatever the settlement is. I wish I had better news. I mean we have no power in this but I'm gonna tell you don't do anything drastic like bankruptcy at this

Starting point is 00:08:14 point. You're just gonna have to float the payment until this gets solved which would light a fire under me. I wouldn't even float the payment. I'd be sitting in the I'd be sitting in the banker's office the lender going I'm not paying you a cent because all of you are going, I'm not paying you a cent, because all of you are going down. But after I got a lawyer who had a brain and who wasn't going to take advantage of you guys. Yeah, I think A1, find a new attorney.

Starting point is 00:08:34 New attorney with a backbone, somebody who wants to destroy somebody. Because this is wrong. What a weird situation. Oh my gosh, I got a headache. Thanks for sharing, Mary. I hope it works out for you guys. This is The Ramsey Show.

Starting point is 00:08:50 Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people wanna take care of their family? They think they're not gonna die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys, I didn't even think about it.

Starting point is 00:09:05 And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them. Me too. And they don't know what to do next.

Starting point is 00:09:21 Terrifying. You're going to have a crisis here. You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's gonna invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's gonna eat tomorrow. That's exactly right. These are the two options.

Starting point is 00:09:33 It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Ken Coleman. Open phones at

Starting point is 00:09:57 triple 8, 825-5225. If you guys want to take control of your money this year, there is no better way to do that than by making a budget. It sounds simple, it might sound overwhelming, I don't know. But here's the deal, we created an app to make it easier than ever, it's called EveryDollar. You can go download it in the app store for free or go to everydollar.com to get started and it will give you such peace of mind

Starting point is 00:10:20 to look in that financial mirror and just know the reality of your situation and how to move forward. And that's exactly what this app's gonna do for you. Be sure to check it out. Landon is up next in Memphis. What's going on, Landon? Hey, I appreciate y'all taking my call.

Starting point is 00:10:34 Sure, how can Ken and I help? So this is probably a really stupid question, but I'm a tightwad, so I gotta ask it anyways. Okay. So I'm in Baby Step 7, my wife and I, and we're 27. And really the problem with my question is I feel like I just have too much money worth wrapped up in my house, but I just recently bought a Mercedes S class, maybe a day or two ago. Um,

Starting point is 00:10:58 and just emotionally to me feels like I spent way too much money on something that goes down in value. And it just eats me up thinking about what I could put that money in that would go up in value. And so my question is just, should I take this stupid car back? Well, let's talk about what you spent on it. So after taxes and fees and all that junk is about 35 grand.

Starting point is 00:11:21 All right, and what's your household income? Last two years I've averaged about 250. Well, there's some ratios for you. That puts it in perspective. How much do you have tied up in everything with wheels and motors in your house right now? Probably got 45 grand counting the Mercedes.

Starting point is 00:11:39 Yeah. Okay. So you're driving an older car for the other car. Dave would have said, you should have bought a nicer car. You're not doing anything. Both of my cars outside of the Mercedes are probably worth 10 grand total. I understand like ratio wise, it sounds okay,

Starting point is 00:11:53 but emotionally it just doesn't, it doesn't feel right to write a check when I could, for something that could go down, something that goes down in value, when I could put that in, you know, something like some mutual funds retirement, whatever. All right, let me ask you a quick question, Landon. You seem like a very even keeled, level-headed person, so this may be difficult for you to

Starting point is 00:12:11 answer. But have you ever acted out of emotion before and realized that your emotion was wrong? Sure. All right. So your emotion is wrong on this Mercedes? Well, I can... Your emotion's wrong. I mean, intellectually I get that.

Starting point is 00:12:29 Like I do get that. But... Oh, wait a second. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You started off and said it was all emotional and I just destroyed the emotional argument on your behalf, by the way, and now you want to go intellectual. Well, what I mean is, like, basically so basically all in all in the worth about 750 and about 550 of that is in my house.

Starting point is 00:12:50 Okay. So it just feels like cash wise, I feel like 35 grand is rich out of the cash that I have available is what I mean. It's not. Landon, there are people who have a negative net worth who bought more expensive cars than you today. And so just know that in the grand scheme of life,

Starting point is 00:13:07 it's gonna be okay. And here's the deal, when you're young, naturally more of your house is gonna make up your net worth. It might be 50, 60, 70, 80% when you're young, but over time, compound growth with your investments will catch up. And so by the time you retire,

Starting point is 00:13:22 your house will probably be a third of your net worth. And you're right, that car will be in an impound somewhere 30 years from now, and that's okay. Stuff is stuff. But you wouldn't say go buy $10,000 on Toyota Camry or something? You're in your live like no one else era. You said you have a paid for house, right?

Starting point is 00:13:40 You're in baby step seven? Yeah. Then what's the point of money? You're scared to death over nothing. There's three things you can do with money, Landon. You can give it, save it, spend it. And if you just save it, you're gonna drive yourself crazy.

Starting point is 00:13:50 If you just spend it, you're gonna end up broke. And if you just give it, you'll be a great philanthropist, but unable to retire. And so it's wise to do all three. And what you're experiencing is something I experienced as well, which is needing to flex this muscle of spending after you've been so aggressive toward a financial goal

Starting point is 00:14:07 of paying off the house or investing. And so this is something I struggled with. When I wrote, when I stroke a check for my wife's last car we bought her, it hurt my soul. I've never spent that much money on anything outside of a house. And I remember that. And Ken remembers, I was talking to him about it.

Starting point is 00:14:21 But over time, you'll look back 10 years from now and go, remember when I was stressed out about buying a $35,000 car? I'm sure Dave Ramsey had the same experience. Now Dave's cars are worth more than my house. And so it's okay to have nice stuff, as long as you understand that it's a toy that goes down in value.

Starting point is 00:14:38 It doesn't make or break you. Money just magnifies who you are. And it sounds like you are right on track, my friend. What year is that Mercedes and how many miles? 2018, it's about 85,000. Yeah, it's totally fine. I drive a used Mercedes as well. If you take good care of it, it'll last forever. It's a little bit more expensive to keep up. Yes, but you've got it. I mean, listen, you've been shoulding all over yourself

Starting point is 00:15:03 and you need to stop. Keyword should, just for those listening who weren't sure what Ken just said. I know exactly what I said. And we all tend to should. And I didn't notice that either. Should, but I'm using it very purposefully. My therapist tells me this. It's called double entendre.

Starting point is 00:15:19 Stop shoulding on yourself. I should have done this, and I should have done that. That's the idea. And so you can sit there and play that game and talk yourself into another $5,000 car. Sounds like you got two $5,000 cars or somewhere in that range. So you can do whatever you wanna do.

Starting point is 00:15:36 You can take the car back and if that allows you to sleep better, but I think you're not addressing what's really going on. And what's going on, George, this is more your lane than mine. Although I understand it, I just think there's a deep rooted shame in this. I'm not allowed to have something this nice.

Starting point is 00:15:55 That's what I think. I don't deserve it. I don't think it's fear, I think it's shame. I think he's got shame over this. And I think you gotta confront that. Did you grow up with money, Landon? Yeah, maybe my parents had some money for sure. So what was the, what, what, you know, we say behavior is a language. What,

Starting point is 00:16:11 how did the way they handled money influence you? Well, I'll tell you what, honestly, what I think it is, is honestly that I've just been so aggressive since I was 18, because I mean, you know, just doing this since I was 18 and, you know, doing this throughout marriage, that it almost feels like, you know, I need to stay aggressive, you know what I mean? And so, you know, we just fought and clawed so hard to pay our house off and the whole deal. Yeah. What does your spouse think about that?

Starting point is 00:16:35 Oh, she legitimately, we went up to the dealership and she said, buy whatever you want. I'm tired and went home. Good for her. That's a good woman right there. That's a good woman. By the way, let me just ask you this. How long you been familiar with Dave and his teachings and what we do here?

Starting point is 00:16:50 Since I was probably 12. All right, I want you to finish a sentence for me, okay? You ready? Sure, sure. Live like no one else so that later you can. Live like no one else. All right then. Now swap that with drive.

Starting point is 00:17:02 Drive like no one else. Drive the crappy car. So later you can drive like no one else drive the crappy car so later You can't drive like no one really hard You worked really hard to get to a point where you can buy a $35,000 bins and By the way your wife has worked really hard too And she deserves to go on date night with you in a car that you don't have to pedal like Fred Flintstone

Starting point is 00:17:24 Hey to pedal like Fred Flintstone. Hey there he is! Did you hear that laugh? That's the first time on this entire call I felt like we got the real you who wasn't so uptight. Well what's funny about that is that's not far off from what I'm driving outside of the Vins. I know I know I don't look like this guy. He thinks do I come across really dumb? Because when you tell me I got two cars worth $10,000, those are Fred Flintstone cars. I didn't have to do a lot of deduction, my man. And so she deserves better.

Starting point is 00:17:53 She deserves better. If you want to drive a piece of, if you want to drive a turd on wheels, that's up to you. But she doesn't deserve that. Can we agree it's Valentine's Day, for heaven sakes? I agree. I agree to you. But she doesn't deserve that. Can we agree it's Valentine's Day for heaven's sakes? I agree. I agree with you.

Starting point is 00:18:08 All right then. Relax. You work really hard. It is impossible for me, George, to conceive of a scenario where Landon does something dumb with money. Yeah. I mean, you are spot on in our parameters. Here it is.

Starting point is 00:18:19 If all the things with wheels, motors in your life adds up to more than half of your annual income, you're off track. That's simply too much. You are not even close to that. And again, like ratios, Dave buying a nice car is like me buying a biscuit. And so you have to understand the ratios look different.

Starting point is 00:18:35 When you have a very high income, your net worth's gonna continually grow. You're 27. You got another 30, 40 years of working for you and investing to build wealth. And so in the meantime, you have to do something called enjoying life. And I'm scared because you're kind of like me, I'm wired to go. But if we didn't eat this month, we could invest that in a good

Starting point is 00:18:52 gross stock mutual fund. It can make 12% over. You can't live your life like that. You got to let go. Speaking of letting go and living life, George, how do you eat a biscuit? What do you put on your biscuit? One bite at a time. Oh, really? Yeah. No, no butter, no jam? One bite at a time. Oh really? Yeah. No butter? No jam?

Starting point is 00:19:06 I'll do a little butter. No jam? No honey? It's like a chicken biscuit? What are we talking? I'm asking you. It's your biscuit. Yeah. I'll do half butter, half jelly. Best of both worlds. How about you? Oh, I like the jam. A lot of jam. Jam's your jam?

Starting point is 00:19:19 Yeah. I respect that. Well, glad we could at least help Landon get over his emotions. This is The Ramsay Show. Well, glad we could at least help Landon get over his emotions. This is The Ramsey Show. If you need health insurance for yourself or your family, you might be lost in a maze of confusing terms, overwhelming options, and questions about networks. Not to mention high costs and bad service from insurance companies that don't care about

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Starting point is 00:20:27 for unbiased advice about health insurance options to make sure you don't overpay. So get out of the maze by going to healthtrustfinancial.com today. HealthTrustFinancial.com Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Ken Coleman taking your calls at triple 8 8 2 5 5 2 2 5. You know we've got a phone number to call of

Starting point is 00:20:54 course and we get a lot of voicemails on that and so occasionally we like to a little segment called Sorry We Missed Your Call where we listen to the voicemail and respond without them without having to talk to them. Yeah. So let's see what we have today. Do we have a voicemail and respond without them having to talk to them. So let's see what we have today. What do you got for us, Kelly?

Starting point is 00:21:08 I actually am trying to get some financial advice on if I have $30,000, which I do, and another 1,000 to 1,500 a month, what would be the best move or strategy to turn that 30,000 into 300,000 in one year? The last month or two I've been learning stocks, bonds, ETS, options, day trading. Still got a lot further to go on acquiring knowledge whenever it comes to that, but just wanted to get some info

Starting point is 00:21:45 from someone that actually knows what they're doing and talking about. Thank you very much. All right, good question. My first thought, Ken, was you don't need knowledge, you need patience. This guy's about to lose his butt. Yeah, but he wants to 10X that 30 Gs.

Starting point is 00:22:01 30 grand to 300 grand in one year? Go to Vegas, my man. I was gonna say. Hit the craps table. Good luck. Highly, highly perspective investment. That's a quick turnaround. Yeesh.

Starting point is 00:22:12 All those things are scary. My question is always with these, why? Why the urgency and the desperation to turn 30 into 300? What is this get rich quick mentality? Where is it coming from? Social media. Likely friends, social media. I saw a guy who posted that he does day trading

Starting point is 00:22:26 and if I buy his course, he'll show me how to 10X my money guaranteed. It's the microwave mentality. You gotta be a crock pot in a world full of microwaves. And this is not just my opinion. One of my favorite proverbs from the Bible, Ken, wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it. It's ancient wisdom.

Starting point is 00:22:46 You gain wealth fast, you're gonna lose it even faster. And so you're gonna fall in your face trying to do this, and I want you to build wealth, and I popped it into my investment calculator just to kind of get a lay of the land. Instead of one year, if you had 30 grand, your 30, I don't know, if you're in your mid 30s, let's say, 30 grand, you're adding 1,500 a month,

Starting point is 00:23:06 10% rate of return on average. It'll take you probably eight or nine years to get to 300 grand. And I'd much rather you gain it slow and keep it than try to risk it all by day trading or doing options trading and lose it all. So that's my take. That's the Ramsey plan is let's get rich slow.

Starting point is 00:23:23 Let's build wealth the right way and not be in a hurry to do it. If you wanna make more money, go increase your income. You can increase your savings rate, but trying to gamble this away is not the move. I like it. I think we need a new segment called George Quotes the Bible.

Starting point is 00:23:39 I would love that actually. I think that would be great. I thought you did a good job there. The guy calls, leaves a voicemail, and you drop some proverbs on it. This is my encouragement too. His good job there. The guy calls, leaves a voicemail, and you drop some proverb. This is my encouragement to you. His name's Travis. Go read A Proverb a Day. You can read it in a whole month if you just do that, and it will give you the best financial wisdom money can buy. No course necessary. You can read it online for free. Download the Bible app. But I'm telling you, there's just some wisdom in being the tortoise and set of the hare. We know how that story plays out. The tortoise wins every time.

Starting point is 00:24:06 Every time. So thanks for the question though. Casey is up next in Lexington, Kentucky. What's going on, Casey? Hello. Thanks for having me on. I understand now why people say that. I have, oh my goodness, I forgot my question.

Starting point is 00:24:24 No, okay, okay. So when we finish baby step three, I have, oh my goodness, I forgot my question. No, okay, okay. So when we finish baby step three, which I believe is a fully funded three to six months, right? Yes. Correct. Okay. So after we finish that, which should be, it's going to be a little while till we finish

Starting point is 00:24:38 that, but that's like our next step. Um, we have been discussing buying a house, um, or putting money into our business. Um, we're kind of business owners now. It's complicated, but I just wasn't sure what would be the best thing to buy a house or to invest in our business. What's your business? Tell us a little bit about it. Okay. So, um, it's my husband's business. I'll, I'll practice it with that. Um, he owns a restaurant and he wants another location,

Starting point is 00:25:11 but more of like his own type of deal. Cause right now he's got a few partners and it's kind of complicated. Um, but like eventually stepping out and doing something so low down the line. Yeah. That's all I needed to hear. I just wanted to know what we were looking at and what the investment would do. And I would not put the business investment in front of saving for the house.

Starting point is 00:25:36 Okay, okay. Especially in the hospitality industry. There is immense risk in starting a restaurant. Yeah, let's see how this deal works out. Tell him to be patient. Feels like the call that George, I mean, excuse me, the voicemail we just answered. I think this is a patience deal

Starting point is 00:25:50 on the professional side of things. He's got multiple partners. Those at times can be, that can be tricky. And he's already got some real money and I'm guessing some sweat equity involved there. Let's learn, let's see if that proves to be successful before he chases another rabbit. There's an old phrase, if you chase two rabbits,

Starting point is 00:26:10 you lose them both. And I think that would be the advice I would give your hubs there. Let's move forward on a stable plan to get a good house. George, tell them what we want them to do on that house. So you're saving up for a down payment. That would be your next goal after Baby Step 3. We call that Baby Step 3B,

Starting point is 00:26:27 where before you start investing, which is Baby Step 4, you just go real hard at getting that down payment set in under two years. Is that realistic for you guys? It might be a little longer than that. That's okay. The business is kind of up and down. It's not super steady income.

Starting point is 00:26:47 One more reason to not go start another one. We don't have this one squared away. But yeah, in that case, you could, what you could do once you hit baby step, once you finish baby step three, just go ahead and begin investing 15% of your household income into retirement plans. And if he's self-employed,

Starting point is 00:27:02 there's still a lot of options out there. There's always a Roth IRA, which you can do outside of employment. There's solo 401ks. I imagine in his situation, it might be different, but there's a lot of opportunity to invest. And then on top of that, save up for that down payment. And once you guys have a little more stability in your life

Starting point is 00:27:17 and you've got that foundation, now we can figure out what it's gonna take to start this business. And I hope you do it with cash and just move slow. Yeah, that's why I'm calling you guys because I'm like, we're terrified of debt. We did something stupid twice. We paid off eight credit cards and loans

Starting point is 00:27:34 and then closed them. And then we reopened like eight more cards. So, but we're about paid off and we're done with that. Like I've listened to you guys so much. Like it's such an embarrassing thing, but we're about paid off and we're done with that. Like I've listened to you guys so much, like it's such an embarrassing thing, but we're done with that. And we're just looking to the future and doing everything debt free or, you know,

Starting point is 00:27:52 I know mortgage will be taking that on, but that's when I should be do a business and, you know, and increase income. But I really want roots. You know, I'd figure out what is a reasonable goal for this business. Once we are, once we're in the house, okay, what's it gonna take to start this business and then figure out what is a reasonable goal for this business once we are, once we're in the house, okay, what's it gonna take to start this business

Starting point is 00:28:07 and then figure out what that number is and how do we start slow if it's an overwhelming number? We can't afford a million dollar. Are you working? I'm not, no, I have two kids and I stay home with them and I do homeschool and- Well, you're working, you're working, you're working your tail off.

Starting point is 00:28:23 But you're not working in the business with him. You're not in the business. What is his range of income been since getting involved with this partnership in this restaurant? Do you have a couple of years of numbers for me? Like what he's been making? Probably before taxes, probably around 35 to 40. Oh, my gosh.

Starting point is 00:28:41 It varies because there's also quarterly, but it does vary a lot. Yeah, what's the high mark Ben? What's the highest he's made? Probably 40. Okay, listen to me. Okay, now I'm gonna go older brother and I may be old enough to be your dad for crying out loud. I would not be in any hurry to get in a house at all. I would be saving. Okay. So the advice doesn't change on the baby steps, but I would just be renting until you guys figure out what the future looks like on this. He's not making much money at all.

Starting point is 00:29:13 He should go be a line cook in the kitchen and make more. My goodness, he could make more working at Walmart. So I really don't want you thinking about a house until we see his income get a good bit. I'd like to see him close to double that income and get some stability there, George. Because I just don't want you, here's what happens. You get into a house that you think,

Starting point is 00:29:33 okay, this is gonna be right, and then something goes wrong and you guys are out of income for six months and he's starting from scratch. That is scary business. And making 35 grand gross, it's gonna be hard to afford any mortgage with that. Yeah, you guys can't. Let alone rent.

Starting point is 00:29:45 And it's gonna be a long haul on savings. So go ahead and settle into the long haul. And you all need to figure out better income situation if this thing doesn't start to turn. We gotta delay the business stream and the income is a crisis at this point. So he either needs to opt out of this restaurant business and go get a different job,

Starting point is 00:30:02 but now is not the time to start a business or buy a house. So there's option C. We got to figure out the income first. Thanks for the call Casey. More of your calls coming up, 828-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. Taking care of your health doesn't have to cost a fortune. That's why Field of Greens is in my house. Field of Greens is made from fruits and veggies selected by doctors to support your heart, liver, kidneys and metabolism. And here's the best part, they're so confident your doctor will notice your improved health,

Starting point is 00:30:35 they offer a money back guarantee, no questions asked. Try today and get 15% off at www.fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey, promo code Ramsey. www.fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey promo code Ramsey field of greens.com slash Ramsey Welcome back to the Ramsey show I'm George camel joined by Ken Coleman open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five It's time for our Ramsey show question of the day brought to you by wireify Why were you five refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. Now, private student loans are different than federal student loans like Sallie Mae.

Starting point is 00:31:11 So if you wanna learn more about this custom refinancing option and the lump sum payoff option you could qualify for after 24 months, go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's y-r-e-f-y.com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. Alright, George. Today's question comes from Ava in Montana. She writes,

Starting point is 00:31:29 I am 25 years old and my husband is 40. Because of the age gap, I'm concerned about my financial state if my husband passes before I do. We both work in church ministry and earn $80,000 combined. We have very little retirement or savings. I have a $350,000 whole life policy on him, and the premium is $200 a month. My fear is that if he gets a term life policy, his health will decline later in life and prevent him from getting it renewed. I want a guarantee of long-term income,

Starting point is 00:31:57 but at an affordable rate, is there anything available that could work in my situation? Well, George, you're Mr. Insurance. That's what they call me, Ken. I mean, that's what we call you around the office. I see him across the way and I go, there he is, folks. Is that my personal brand? Mr. Insurance.

Starting point is 00:32:13 I do have a weird affinity for him. So this is kind of your thing. I'll just say the whole life needs to be dealt with immediately, get rid of that, and get a good term life policy. That's gonna put him well into his 60s. And at that point, you guys should be fine if you do what we teach as it relates to investment.

Starting point is 00:32:29 George, tell her what she needs to know. So let me go through this systematically. Number one, the $350,000 policy is not enough. You need a 10 to 12 times your income, and so if you're making 80K combined, maybe that means he's making 40 or 50, I don't know, but that would be closer to half a million, 600,000. And on top of that, your whole life policy sucks.

Starting point is 00:32:51 This is just making the salesperson a lot of money and it's not helping you out by paying $200 a month. Very little of that going to the actual policy, most of that into their pockets, some of it into a cash value portion growing at an abysmal rate. And so I would surrender this policy after you get term life in place. of that into their pockets, some of it into a cash value portion, growing at an abysmal rate. And so I would surrender this policy after you get term life in place.

Starting point is 00:33:09 The next question, my fear is if he gets term life, his health will decline later in life. That's how it generally works. As you get older, you get closer to something called death. Getting term life won't change that. And here's the deal, term life is for a specific term, 15 years, 20 years, 25 years. But if you follow the Ramsey baby steps, by the time that policy lapses and it's over, you will be self-insured because you've been following the plan for 20 years, investing for 20 years, you paid off your house 20 years later.

Starting point is 00:33:35 And so there's no fear that it's going to end and now you're out of the money. The goal is to get self-insured at that point. And I'll give you a real life example. I'll use me as example. Now I know that anybody that looks at me on the show, you know I'm a picture of health. I mean, I get that. And I look a lot younger than my 50 years. I also understand that as well. Especially if you see him on the pickleball court.

Starting point is 00:33:54 That's exactly right. I'm very spry. Very spry for a 50 year old. He is supple and nimble. Supple and nimble, thank you very much. But I've got three kids and they're all teenagers and a wife and two doodles. So a lot of responsibility on me, you know what I'm saying? And just to really give you a real life thing here, I renewed mine, got a better deal because I'm, you know,

Starting point is 00:34:17 I was in tip top shape when I got it probably, I don't know, eight years ago. And so that's going to carry me through to where again, Stacey would be fine if something happens. In fact, she'll be so fine, I'd be looking over my shoulder, you know what I mean? I might have to sleep in another room, Dick Van Dyke's one. He's done high open. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:34:33 However, and then the kids would be fine too. So that's all you need for his situation is to get that retirement going and really see that compound interest. You need to call our friends at Zander Insurance because I've done this now and Zander, they just, it's one stop shop. You call them, I wanna get good term.

Starting point is 00:34:53 They're gonna take care of you. They'll compare pricing with the top companies. Get you the best deals and they guide you as to what you need. We've worked with Zander forever. And so make that happen right now. Right now. Absolutely. And it's so cheap.

Starting point is 00:35:08 I don't think people realize how affordable- Yeah, it's not gonna be $200 a month. Whole life is a ripoff. Generally term life is a fraction of the price. And even at his age, it's gonna be way more affordable. So jump on his enter.com or give him a call 800-356-4282 and get Term Life in place today. If you're listening, whoever you are out there listening,

Starting point is 00:35:28 if you don't have Term Life in place today, do it. If anyone relies on your income, a spouse, kids, family, whoever, you need to get this in place. It's not a matter of if, but when. You will eventually pass. I don't wanna be the one to break it to you. And Term Life's not gonna cause that to change. It's just gonna give your family peace of mind.

Starting point is 00:35:44 And now you can eat as many biscuits as you would like, George. I'm good. Because you know, your wife and daughter are okay. She is covered. And stay at home spouses, you need a term life policy as well. Cause it would take Mary Poppins

Starting point is 00:35:56 to replace all the things you do. There you go. There's my pitch for the day, Ken. I had to say it. I thought it was off the soap box. I thought that was well played. Well played. All right, on to Ashley in Austin, Texas.

Starting point is 00:36:05 What's going on, Ashley? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. Yeah, so- How can we help? It's right on it. My husband and I recently accumulated $3,000 in IRS debt starting this year. 3,000? Which has added-

Starting point is 00:36:23 3,000. Okay. Which has added to the financial strain we already had, which now being our total debt $62,000, excluding the mortgage. We've been following the snowball effect method for about a year now, but it feels like we're not making much progress. now, but it feels like we're not making much progress. We've considered, you know, changing, you know, our jobs, selling our house temporarily so we can rent and save, or even relocating to our hometown for a more simpler, affordable lifestyle. My question is, what would you recommend as the best course of action for us? Well, what's keeping you guys from making progress? Just not enough income, and you've cut everything you can cut, and you just still don't have enough income to make progress?

Starting point is 00:37:14 I think that we probably could cut maybe groceries. That one we haven't done the right and being, like Dave Ramsey says. But we spend like $200 on groceries, you know, per pack. What's your income? Together, take home after deductions. It's about 44,400 together. A year.

Starting point is 00:37:41 Together? Sorry, a month. 4,400 a month. Okay. Take care. Are you guys doing any investing right now? We are not. Okay.

Starting point is 00:37:51 So that's just deductions, meaning like taxes, maybe health insurance, something like that? Correct. Okay. So 4,400 a month and you're trying to tackle, I mean, so we're talking about a take-home pay of roughly 50 grand a year, and you're trying to tackle 62. And so you're going to need more income. You can slash

Starting point is 00:38:09 expenses all you want. That will help. But income is the biggest factor here. So with this move, so you gave Georgia and I think three scenarios, right? Correct. Which one of those three scenarios allows you to cut expenses expenses but also provides an opportunity for greater income? Both at the same time. Which one of the three options? Or however many you gave us? Honestly, it may actually have to be a combination.

Starting point is 00:38:43 We work in a job that we have a set income that's our set income but we do get we work a mortgage company so we both receive commission and bonuses on the side we just don't take that into account so anything we receive we're putting it straight to debt. But I think our stock is just not enough. What's your mortgage payment? 1,800. Okay, so that's about, I mean, that's 40% of your income. It's definitely high.

Starting point is 00:39:17 That's hurting your ability to do this. I don't think we're at a fire moment where we have to go sell the house tomorrow. I would work on your income. And if nothing changes a year from now with your income, you might want to downsize to get out of this mess instead of it taking five years. Cause normally aging to 24 months,

Starting point is 00:39:32 that's how long it takes people to get out of debt. Some longer if they got a big hole and not a big shovel and some less. But for you guys, we need to see this income grow to about six figures to get this knocked out in two years or less. Yeah, rule of thumb for you, Ashley, and everybody listening or watching,

Starting point is 00:39:49 I wouldn't make a major life change unless it has both short-term and long-term benefits. Because there's a lot that goes into a major change. And major change when it's good in the short-term and sets me up for what I want my long term to look like. That's a no brainer. Outside of that, no, I'm gonna stick and hustle and dig my way out.

Starting point is 00:40:12 Not just pull the parachute. Does that make sense? Yeah, that margin, we need to expand the gap here, the margin between our income and our expenses. And I think both levers are gonna be necessary. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to my co-host, Ken Coleman, everyone in the booth keeping the show afloat, and you, America, will be back before you know it.

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Starting point is 00:42:13 Be sure to check that out on The Ramsey Network and on YouTube and podcast. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. Brett's gonna kick us off this hour in Sacramento. How can we help, Brett? Yeah, my question is simple. Insurance agent or insurance broker? I've noticed insurance has gone way up over the last year or so, and I was curious your

Starting point is 00:42:37 thoughts on insurance broker versus insurance agent. It's an easy choice for me. I'm going broker all the time, because here's the deal. With a captive agent, let's say your buddy who works for, you know, I don't know, rhymes with State Parm, I don't know, something like that. If they work for one of these companies,

Starting point is 00:42:53 they can only sell insurance from that company. Makes sense, right? Yeah. Whereas a broker isn't actually selling you the policy. They're just connecting you and shopping the policies across the board from the top companies to get you the best deal. Does that make sense?

Starting point is 00:43:09 So I don't fall for the marketing of these commercials. I wanna know who's given me the coverage I need at the best price. That's all it is. Super, thank you for the information. What kind of insurance are you looking at? Well, I have a car insurance has gone way up. I have a daughter driving now.

Starting point is 00:43:25 I also have an umbrella, a million dollar policy and a home insurance as well. Love it. Well, you're doing all the right things. Yeah, I mean, to me, it's all about price. I mean, you wanna obviously go with a top rated company and we have all kinds of connections for you. If you jump on ramsysolutions.com and click on trusted pros,

Starting point is 00:43:44 we can connect you to the right insurance brokers in any area from home, auto, health, whatever it is, to help you sort that out. And that's something I do. And I actually reshop every year. I contact my insurance broker and I say, hey, can you reshop to make sure I'm still getting the best deal?

Starting point is 00:44:00 And they'll either say, yep, you're still the best deal, I just reshopped it. Or actually we could save you a little bit of money here if we switch this policy over here. And so having someone do that work for me saves time, hassle, and money. Anything to add, Ken? Or did I nail it?

Starting point is 00:44:14 I just like how you did the little word play so as not to technically endorse somebody. And now I want a chicken parm is the problem. Yeah. Shouldn't have said that. Yeah. I won't say which one, but I do have some of those commercials are really obnoxious and some are kind of funny.

Starting point is 00:44:28 Oh, the marketing's great. They've gotten into a real, it reminds me of the days when I was growing up when it was like the beer commercials were really competing to be which ones were the funniest. And I feel like we've got the big three insurance. They're all really pouring the money into celebs, a lot of funny stuff, trying to be funny.

Starting point is 00:44:45 Yeah, you got Jake, you got Mayhem, you got Flo. That's it, you just nailed all three. I think that's my encore career, Ken. If this doesn't work out, I'm hoping someone will get me to be some kind of character. You would be a great insurance salesman. I appreciate that. I think I could see you as a spokesperson doing that in your little cute bomber jacket there. Thank you for saying it's cute.

Starting point is 00:45:05 You know, because you're very trustworthy. You know, you're a small guy, but you got a very, very serious beard. Well, I'm not intimidating. I think that's part of what makes me... Well, you're definitely not intimidating. Okay. Neither one of us are. I dug too far for the compliment.

Starting point is 00:45:17 I hit rock. But no, neither one of us are intimidating. You run into us in an alley and you kind of take a sigh of relief. Yes They're like, oh, it's a there's two little guides right there. I'm the guy they a guy walked up to me in Costco And he just said hey, where's the paper towels and I was aghast. I was like, does he think I work here? What were you wearing? Just normal. I made an outfit like this. I didn't look like I worked at Costco He apparently thought you did. Well, of course I knew where the paper towels were. Let me walk you over there, sir, right this way. You were like, you instantly went to a spin, a point, you gave him an aisle number.

Starting point is 00:45:52 Absolutely. I like that, George. So I'm unbearably helpful. That's what my wife says, at least. If you're ever looking for me at a Costco and you think it's me, first ask yourself, is he near a sample? Because if it looks like me and it's a sample line, it's me. Stacey's doing the shopping, Ken's doing the sample. That's exactly right. That's what's up. That's how it goes.

Starting point is 00:46:12 All right, let's head out to the phones. Brooke awaits in Syracuse. What's going on, Brooke? Hi guys, happy Valentine's Day. You as well. Happy Valentine's Day, Brooke. You're the first one to say that to us. First one to say that to us.

Starting point is 00:46:23 We were starting to get our feelings hurt a little bit, but thank you. Thank you. I am calling, me and my husband are on baby step two, and I'm having a conflict with the principals that you guys teach or think, where it's either the order or I'm trying to get rid of a stupid car. And we have a substantial amount of money to us that's about to come.

Starting point is 00:46:47 I really want to make sure that I apply it to the situation the best way that I possibly can. How much? $5,300. $5,300? Yeah. Okay. And how much debt do you have? So we have about $18,000 total. And then do you want me to break all of it down?

Starting point is 00:47:10 Sure. Yeah. Go from smallest to largest in the balances. Okay. So we have a credit card that has $178 balance left, which I've been, that's my current project. So, and then we have a care credit account that has two payments of $111 left on it. We have a dental loan situation that's $1,948.

Starting point is 00:47:34 We have a Discover card at $730. And then our biggest loan is a debt consolidation loan, which the stupid car is the collateral on, which is $15,535. So what's the issue here? You get this $5,300, you know, I don't know, is it inheritance settlement? It's actually money that we had. It was uninvested, sitting in an account for the past year and a half that we kind of forgot existed. So you'll knock out your first four debts with that.

Starting point is 00:48:07 The smallest credit card, the care credit, the dental, the other credit, the Discover card, all of those get knocked out instantly. And then we start chipping away at the remaining consolidation loan, right? That seems obvious to me, but the thing that catches me is that that $15 five hundred thirty five dollar loan the car that's tied up into it is worth about ten thousand and then we also we have one nineteen month old and then next month we are having our son and we have two cars we have the one that's tied up in this which is stupid it's a Mustang convertible and then we have a smart, and both of these cars are uniquely stupid to have two car seats in

Starting point is 00:48:48 to the point where it's almost unsafe to drive. Yeah, uniquely unsuitable for a child. I get it. I love your emotion on the Mustang. Let me guess, the Mustang convertible is your hubby's car. Actually, no. I got a really cool job, and so I thought I could get a really cool car.

Starting point is 00:49:05 Good for you. You wanted your hair, you wanted to let your hair flow, huh? Come on, on the way home. Woo! Your little Tom Petty free-falling. Yeah, I know the job wasn't that great. Okay, well I misdiagnosed that one, George. Yeah, you're underwater on the car, so you need the difference in cash or from a, you know, a loan from your credit union to make up the difference to get out of this. Is that what you're saying?

Starting point is 00:49:27 And this money seems to be like the exact right amount. And I've been praying about it. Like, what do I do? Oh, I see. Because I feel like we need a new car for these two babies. You could use this money to get out of this car situation with the consolidation loan. Right.

Starting point is 00:49:41 Yeah. If I take that money and if I can sell the car, then I can get out of that. And that's also like, that payment is more than our house payment. It's like $556 a month, and we only pay like $500 a month in our house. What's your income every month? So it would also eliminate our biggest expenses. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:56 So last year, we made like $32,000, but my husband just had a job lock last year, which is why that was so low, and he just started a new career. So I'm not entirely sure what to expect. Yeah, you guys did a lot more money coming in, Brooke. And so I would hang on until baby's here and you and baby are home safe before I let go of this five grand, because this might be the safety net you need

Starting point is 00:50:17 for any medical bills that come up. But once that's done, I would absolutely use this money to get out of this car situation, then hit the debt snowball on the remaining debts Thanks for the call. This is the Ramsey show Okay, here's the hard truth your investment dollars could be winding up in the pockets of companies that hold positions You don't agree with people are unknowingly putting money into tech giants and household brands that don't match up with their core values.

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Starting point is 00:51:56 cut back, and save more money. So how much money are we talking here? Well, the average Every Dollar budgeter frees up $395 in their first budget. That's the hack. And if you ask me, I think you're way above average and you'll save even more. So what are you doing still listening to me? Go download the Every Dollar app for free and start saving more money right now. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

Starting point is 00:52:20 I'm George Campbell joined by Ken Coleman Open Phones at 888-825-5225. Hey, you do not wanna miss our two night virtual event. It's called Investing Essentials, hosted by Dave Ramsey and me, George Campbell. Investing can be overwhelming, it can be confusing, and it's not something you can get from a 60 second social media post. So at this virtual event, we're gonna walk you through

Starting point is 00:52:42 how to maximize your retirement plans, how to choose mutual funds, how to get the most out of your money, how to invest with confidence. Plus it's the only place where you're gonna hear Dave Ramsey unpack his personal playbook on real estate investing, what to look for, the calculations, I mean, we are going to Nerdville and back

Starting point is 00:52:57 and you're going to love it. And Dave, I mean, famously is a real estate mogul. He has hundreds of millions in property investments all in cash and he wants to teach you how to build wealth the right way. So you're gonna get clarity you need. Join us investing essentials. It's happening March 4th and 5th.

Starting point is 00:53:12 It's virtual, you can join from anywhere. Tickets start at 199 bucks and it's worth every penny to get four or five hours of Dave coaching you. That's pretty incredible. Get yours today, ramsysolutions.com slash events, or click the link in the show notes if you're tuning in on podcast or YouTube. Sarah's up next in Rochester, New York.

Starting point is 00:53:31 How can we help, Sarah? Hi, how's it going? Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. So basically my issue is I am trying to figure out how we can budget our finances because my husband is a blue-collar worker on a commission-based pay scale and we don't have consistent income per year but last year he made a hundred and sixty one

Starting point is 00:54:02 thousand the year before that he made 140,000. And the year before that he made 180,000. So I would say an average of 160,000 over the last three years. And we're looking into doing the baby steps and snowballing all of this fun stuff. But right now currently with our mortgage at $4,120, we also have a consolidation loan,

Starting point is 00:54:28 health insurance is $900 a month because through his work it's $1,300. And the credit card debt totals $127,000. Goodness gracious, what'd you guys spend on these cards? Well, it's been a combination of, like, don't hurt me, but I put my husband's motorcycle on my card because we were trying to get the points. I know that's the worst answer you could possibly want to hear, but so that's $18,000 and we have just multiple bills.

Starting point is 00:55:07 He has $72,000 in credit card debt and I have not including that motorcycle, it's like $34,000. I put groceries on it, I've put property taxes on it because our personal property taxes So where is your actual income going if you're using the card to fund your life? You guys make great money. That's, I know, and that's the problem is it disappears. We have the total debt that's going out per month for all of our payments is $9,600. $9,600? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:50 Does that include the mortgage? Yes. Goodness gracious. Yes. What is your, so your average take-home pay, I mean, is it 10 grand a month, eight grand a month? Well, I'm guessing it's like closer to 13, because, well, that's the average though.

Starting point is 00:56:07 That's the problem. Some months will have fantastic months and some months we don't. So like, for instance, if he has a bad couple of weeks or if he took vacation, then he gets his hourly pay. Let me make this clear. There are no vacations in your near future. Why is that motorcycle not sold? Oh no, it wasn't a vacation.

Starting point is 00:56:28 We went nowhere. You need to be going to work. You don't need to be staying home at all. Well, right. Yeah, but he's- Where's this motorcycle? Where is it? It's in the garage.

Starting point is 00:56:39 Why is it not sold yesterday? That's the source of- See, here's the deal, Sarah. I'm listening to this and George will keep coaching you but I'm getting fired up on your behalf. I like how fired up you're getting George. It's hard to tell between when you're calm when you're fired up so it's really got to be discerning. I'm often irritable you know. You are. But what's going on here is not the irregular income. You're kind of presented this call as my husband's got an irregular income.

Starting point is 00:57:06 By the way, George and I do as well. So you're actually talking to two people that this is how we are paid as well. And so your issue is not that. Your issue is you're overspending. You're not living within the means, whether it's regular or irregular. That's the problem.

Starting point is 00:57:23 And so what happens is because you put all this stuff that you couldn't afford on credit, and you got yourself in so much debt, the irregular income makes it even more stressful than it would be if you had it coming in every month. So I just wanna make sure that you are acknowledging this, or Hubs needs to acknowledge this, because if he's holding up the sale of the Harley,

Starting point is 00:57:42 then you guys gotta have a real sit down here and go, this has gotta stop. But the irregular income is not your issue. It's the behavior. And so you know- And to George's point, you better go make some more right now. Sorry, George.

Starting point is 00:57:55 No, but on a bad month, let's say it's 10 grand. So we know that on a great month, it might be 15 grand, right? Right, right. So it's not zero. So we can't go, well, we can't do a budget because it's irregular. What you guys need to do is cut up the cards yesterday,

Starting point is 00:58:08 freeze your credit completely, close all the accounts, start doing the debt snowball and sell everything you can in sight while also working twice as much as you are. There it is. Right. Well, I've run out of children to sell, but I definitely would like to do the snow.

Starting point is 00:58:27 But is there a way to negotiate with the creditors to help with the interest rate? I don't want to run away from this debt. You can try. You can call every creditor and say, hey, listen, we're trying to pay you back. This interest is killing us. Would you be willing to lower it? But even that's a secondary action. You didn't even hear anything George said.

Starting point is 00:58:45 I did, I did. We need to cut up all of our cards. I know, but I'm looking forward from here. If we do all of these things, I just wanna- Sure, call them. We could be paying for 120 years. Right, but here, what's the motorcycle payment every month? 360.

Starting point is 00:59:01 Boom. So tomorrow you could free up 360 bucks if you get rid of that thing. Are you underwater on it? I don't know. I have not checked the resale value of it at this point. Is hubs willing to sell this or is he fighting it? You said like it was a sore spot, like it was not going to go away.

Starting point is 00:59:18 Well here's, this could be a totally different issue too. He works really hard and he doesn't... I think he works too hard to be this broke. He works hard to finish that sentence. I want to hear this. He works really hard. Keep going. I know. Well, and I don't want to take something that he loves so much. He absolutely loves it. But he's not gonna love anything. I don't care how great your toys are when you're miserable underwater with debt you don't love anything. Right, true. And don't you think the stress of having to work this hard and pay off all this debt is not worth the joy of the motorcycle that we can go buy once we're debt free? Right, agreed. I mean this is like a child who's unwilling

Starting point is 01:00:03 to let go of their toy. I know. It's not grandpappies from World War II. This isn't sentimental. Right, true. So I just feel like we need to make some sacrifices here and you're looking for solutions that are shortcuts that don't involve us having to change our lifestyle. It's been out of control for so long that you guys don't know another life.

Starting point is 01:00:24 And that's why cutting off all the, you can't go into credit card debt that you guys don't know another life. Right. And that's why cutting off all the, you can't go into credit card debt if you don't have a credit card. That's what I found. That's the best way to address the issue. So cutting up these cards, getting her to the motorcycle, you need some instant relief right now,

Starting point is 01:00:37 and it's not gonna come from a debt repayment company or another consolidation loan or adding more debt. You've gotta start cutting. And so you gotta have a come to Jesus moment with your husband tonight and say, this is not okay. Why are we living like this? We make a hundred and eighty thousand dollars. How are we in crippling debt? Right. And so is your husband on board for this? It sounds like you're wanting to make a change and you're going, hey it's a hard sell because he's a hard worker. I don't want to take, I don't want to make him

Starting point is 01:01:03 sacrifice anymore. He is on board. I just, I am the type of person, I's a hard sell because he's a hard worker. I don't want to make him sacrifice anymore. He is on board. I just, I am the type of person, I'm a people pleaser and I want him to be happy. And I'm equating his happiness with his motorcycle. Let me ask a quick question, five second answer or less. How happy would he be if all that debt went away tonight? Oh, world's happier.

Starting point is 01:01:24 Well then, why don't we aim on that, people pleaser? Happiness is not in stuff. You can find happiness in financial peace because of a lack of stress, but it's not gonna come from riding that motorcycle while you're in crippling debt, stressed out, affecting your marriage and your financial future. I'm gonna send you guys Financial Peace University

Starting point is 01:01:43 because I wanna see you win. I think you need some fire under your butt and I think Dave and crew can help if you watch all nine lessons. So hang on the lines here, we're gonna send you guys Financial Peace University as a Valentine's gift on us. This is The Ramsey Show. People tell me about their experiences with big banks all the time. Bad service, fees that nickel and dime them to death, and predatory

Starting point is 01:02:06 lending that tries to catch them in never-ending cycles of debt. So if you're ready for a bank that puts people over profits, check out Fair Winds Credit Union. I recommend Fair Winds because they share our Ramsey values of helping people get out of debt and live generously. If you go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey you'll see the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans. This account bundle is designed to help you take control of your finances and stay out of debt. And Fairwinds also has a great mobile app that's safe and secure so you can manage your transactions with peace of mind. Fairwinds has been helping people avoid big bank traps for 75 years. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn It's easy to join, no matter where you live. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey.

Starting point is 01:03:12 It's that time again folks, tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro today. That way they can take the stress off your shoulders once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But don't wait,

Starting point is 01:03:38 Ramsey Trusted Pros can book up fast. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash tax pro to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramsysolutions.com slash tax pro. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Ken Coleman and we're also joined by a lovely couple on the debt freefree stage. It's Brian and Taylor. How are you guys doing? Good. You? Amazing.

Starting point is 01:04:09 I mean, you guys are better than you deserve today on the debt-free stage. Where are you from? Greeley, Colorado. Wonderful. How much do you guys pay off? We started out in 2021 with $102,361.45 in debt. Wow. Since then, we just started Ramsey in October of 2023, and we paid off in the last 15 months,

Starting point is 01:04:33 we paid off the remaining $38,727.90. Whoa, okay, so how long did this full journey take to pay off the 102? Go ahead. Since May of 2021. Wow, that's incredible. So how many months is that? off the 102? Go ahead. Since May of 2021. Wow, that's incredible. So how many months is that? Do the math with me here.

Starting point is 01:04:49 Almost, almost four years? Yes. Okay, just shy of four years. But in 15 months was the almost- Was the big one, like you really went gung ho. Yes. Okay, and what's the range of income during that time? We started out at 140,000

Starting point is 01:05:03 and then we ended up at about $158,000. Wow. What do y'all do? I'm a truck driver. And I do international documentation for JBS. Cool. Alright, very nice. So tell us about this $102,000. What kind of debt was this? Oh, it was everything. We had credit card debt, student loan debt, and I'm blanking, I am service. Cars. You're doing great by the way, you're okay.

Starting point is 01:05:29 I mean look at us, we don't scare anybody, so just deep breath, you're gonna be fine. Watch it or I will come take your job. Uh oh. Now I'm scared, now I'm nervous. Reverse intimidation tactic. She just flipped it on me. We had it all, so when we started this journey,

Starting point is 01:05:45 it was hard because in 2021, we had barely just been married. We've only been together for six years and between us we have seven kids and so a combo marriage and we both brought debt to the table and then we fought a lot. It was many, many arguments, many tears, many slammed doors in the house and then it was in the summer of 2021, I started listening to Ramsey. And after about two months, I went home and when I was excited and I told Brian, I said, hey, we need to do this.

Starting point is 01:06:14 You need to start listening to these shows. And he looked at me, he goes, I'm not gonna do MLM. I said, it's not multi-money. That's hilarious. That's good. I said, no, this is you buckling down and paying off your debt. And so I wasn't sure how to approach this

Starting point is 01:06:28 because money was a huge argument for us and we were both embarrassed, we were both frustrated. And so we didn't know how to communicate. So I reached out to Andy Thiel, who was from our financial advisor, and I asked him to come to the house one day. And so he came over and he sat down and we were talking numbers.

Starting point is 01:06:44 So Brian said, no, I'm not going to sit here and talk. And so I sat there with Andy. And I slid a piece of paper across the table. And I said, well, here's our debt. Here's our income. Here's our age. Where will we be at retirement? And he kind of looked at me dumbfounded

Starting point is 01:06:56 when he looked at the number. And he didn't say anything. He got up and left. And about a week and a half later, he called back. And he says, I have some charts and graphs. And I have some numbers. I said, can I get you and your husband to sit down so he came back to the house and again I said Brian would you come sit down and Brian's like you

Starting point is 01:07:10 know but he did he came over he stood next to me wouldn't sit and then when Andy brought out the charts and graphs he goes I don't he goes when I left your house he goes it was very dismal he goes I was nervous for you guys because of where you're at with your age and what your debt was and he didn't see how we were gonna get out of this. And he goes, I don't know what your plan is. He goes, but what you have shown me, and he slid the charts and grass over,

Starting point is 01:07:30 he goes, you guys will be self-made millionaires at retirement. And right now Brian is 55 and I am 50, no, he's 57 and I'm 50. 55 sounds better. I'm 54. Yeah. I'm nervous, I'm flubbing up here.

Starting point is 01:07:42 You're doing great. Wow. So where are you guys at now? Well, we are completely deaf free. We're on Baby Steps 3, but the week- Except the house. Except the house, that's true. And on track to become Baby Steps Millionaires

Starting point is 01:07:53 by retirement. Yeah. Even after all of that. So what encouragement to anyone listening who's gone away, it's too late for me. Well, we have Brian and Taylor here telling you that even if you get a quote late start in your 50s, you can still turn this around and retire with dignity.

Starting point is 01:08:08 What a beautiful picture. And Brian, what got, you were the reluctant spouse. You heard Ramsey Way and all you heard was Mary Kay and not the staff, right? So what got you to actually make that turn and go, all right, fine, I'll do this? Just looking back at what I hadn't done and what I did do was what was wrong

Starting point is 01:08:26 and what I should be doing for my family and my wife. So was it really that kind of like, you didn't wanna look in your own mirror and go, oh, I'm part of this problem. So was that why you were shutting down? Right, yeah, I was embarrassed. I should have done better. And Taylor was a numbers person and she's an ex teacher and so I kind of learned from her.

Starting point is 01:08:48 So you had to let go of your own baggage and shame and go, all right, I'm part of this but I got to do something about it. If I'm the problem, I'm the solution. Yep. All right, so here's what I want to know. So after the charts and graphs kitchen moment, we'll call it, what did it look like going forward?

Starting point is 01:09:04 How committed were you? What was the most extreme thing you did? Give us some people out there that are listening and watching. Give them something to hold on to. What'd you do? Well, I made up a graph, and it's one of those little thermometers, and I put it on the wall right outside of our bedroom door.

Starting point is 01:09:20 So we were forced to walk past it every day to see what our actual debt value was, and then we filled it in, colored it in as we went and you know paid off the debt But that first month when I sat down I because it's it's a hard thing to do with that every dollar app It took me the three months to really that's right get it figured out. It's a stumbling project, but That first month I looked at him and I said we spend way too much eating out and so I looked at him and I said, we spend way too much eating out.

Starting point is 01:09:43 And so we did a 30 day challenge and, whoo, that was a hard one. Because. No eating out for 30 days? No eating out. And so then. Was there any rice or beans in there? A lot of home cooking and food beans, yes.

Starting point is 01:09:56 But when we got done, you know, we both, he was like, well, I want to be able to have some enjoyment. And I said, well, let's just do two, two dates a month where we have one with the family and then just one with us. And we were going to put that in the budget, which I did, but we didn't use it because we realized, you know, how much money it was costing to eat out. So we just kind of quit everything altogether.

Starting point is 01:10:15 And this is our first trip since we started this. This is the first. Oh, that's sweet. We're all out on this. So it's- Did you stay at a decent hotel? We did. We did. It's one stay at a decent hotel? We did. We did.

Starting point is 01:10:25 It's one you guys recommended actually. Oh good. I didn't know we were in the hotel recommendation business. No one consulted me. I'd like to see what has been passed. Concierge, yeah. Cause I got an opinion on hotels. I'm what they call bougie, I'm told.

Starting point is 01:10:38 I love that about you. I don't know what it means, but I'm told that's what I am. Can I give a shout out to all of our kids? Please. Please do. All seven of them. All seven. Here we go. Okay. So they range from 33 down to 15.

Starting point is 01:10:49 Wow. Wow. So we have Brianna, Ian, Tyler, Brandon, Erin, Claire, and Tyler. And yes, we have two Tyler's, one from each of us, but our kids are our motivator too, because we realize looking back, both of us have lived paycheck to paycheck, and it's been a very, it's a hard struggle

Starting point is 01:11:05 and we don't want our kids to follow in that path. So the two living at home are the two youngest ones, Claire and Tyler, and they've watched our struggles and they've felt the heartaches that we've been going through as well. That's amazing. Change that family tree. Absolutely, what's next for you guys?

Starting point is 01:11:19 You're on Baby Step Three and now we're gonna be investing for the future as your financial advisor, been cheering you on. Any other cheerleaders in your life? My mom was probably my biggest one. And then we were cheerleaders for each other, but my mom, she checked in quite often and she would send text messages

Starting point is 01:11:35 and I'd send her pictures of the graph and she was the one that was probably the biggest one for me. That's awesome. What's the 30 second encouragement you would give to someone who might be where you guys were in your 50s going, gosh, we're $100,000 in consumer debt, we're so far behind on retirement,

Starting point is 01:11:51 we're never gonna be able to do this? Be smart, sit down with the financial, the thing that woke me up was looking at what money we didn't have and realizing how unfarred in debt we were and we made a big mistake, we pulled out 70,000 out of our retirement as a down payment on our house before Ramsey and realized that was probably one of the biggest mistakes

Starting point is 01:12:10 we ever made because that's like a $430,000 mistake. But we just weren't set up for retirement at the time and now we're on track. That's incredible. Well, hey, we've got a little parting gift for you for coming by. We've got two one-year subscriptions to every dollar. That was the tool that helped you

Starting point is 01:12:26 after three months of struggling through it, figuring it out. It's what helped you guys get debt-free. So feel free to use that or pass it on to someone to get their journey started. We're so pumped for you guys. All right, you ready to do this? Yes.

Starting point is 01:12:37 We've got Brian and Taylor from the Denver, Colorado area. $102,000 paid off credit cards, student loans, car loans. It's all gone. They did it in under 40 years with the last chunk getting knocked out fast in 15 months, making 140 to 158. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

Starting point is 01:12:55 We are free! We are free! That's special. From the kitchen fights to a debt-free life. On Valentine's Day no less. Oh, the romance is in the air. Is there anything more romantic than fiscal responsibility? I don't know, I gotta believe Cupid was debt-free. I just said, I almost said Cupid. There can't be much money in that matchmaking. Yeah. But hey, how's he pay for those arrows? We love to see it. This is the Ramsey Show.

Starting point is 01:13:27 I still remember 10 years ago, 23 years old, I was frustrated, anxious and flat broke. I had followed all the ways that toxic money culture had led me down from well-meaning parents and misguided guidance counselors. And it left me with a pile of debt. But I'm telling you, it doesn't have to stay that way. Over a decade, I went from broke to millionaire,

Starting point is 01:13:51 and I break it all down in my new book, Breaking Free from Broke. I'm going to show you just how toxic this money system is and how you can break free from credit scores and credit cards and student loans and auto loans and investing traps and finally live a life that you're not exhausted by a life with more margin, more options and more peace. If you want to check out the book, go to ramseysolutions.com slash store to get your copy of Breaking Free from Broke. That's ramseysolutions.com slash store. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.'m George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman.

Starting point is 01:14:26 Hey, this is the last segment of this hour. And if you want to check the rest of the show out, you got to get the Ramsay Network app. The only place to get full episodes of The Ramsay Show, you can download the Ramsay Network app for free. Just use the link in the show notes or just search Ramsay Network in your app store. For everyone listening on radio, stay tuned.

Starting point is 01:14:43 The show will continue as programmed, but everyone else don't miss out. It's happening in the app. Michael in New York is up next. What's going on, Michael? Hey, how are you? Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can Ken and I help? Sure. So it's really just general investment advice and guidance. I got married a few months ago. Congrats. And thank God we got, thank you. We got married a few months ago. Congrats. And thank God we got, thank you. We got a lot of money in wedding gifts.

Starting point is 01:15:09 You know, we currently don't have any debt, but we have like $45,000 sitting in our checking account, which is obviously ridiculous. That's amazing. So I just wanted to, yeah, thank you. I just wanted advice on, you know, where you would put it and also just some, you know, passive investing with my income.

Starting point is 01:15:27 Okay, so what is your household income? It's about 120,000. Awesome, and you said you guys are debt-free. Do you have an emergency fund and savings outside of the 45, or is that kind of everything? No, that's everything. Okay, so that's all the money to your name, that's liquid. And what would a month of expenses look like

Starting point is 01:15:48 for you guys right now as a married couple? Have you kind of figured out finances yet? Not so much. Our rent is about 2,400, utilities another 300. I own my car. It's probably around 3,500 altogether a month. Does that include like food, insurance, everything? Yeah, maybe a little more, 3,800.

Starting point is 01:16:10 Okay, so let's call it four grand is one month of expenses. And we recommend three to six months of expenses in a fully funded emergency fund. So for you guys, we can call that 15 or 20 grand. Okay. So let's say you kept 20 grand aside as your emergency fund, label it emergency fund, do not touch it, unless there's a true emergency.

Starting point is 01:16:29 And then the other 25, now we're talking. Now we can use this money towards something. I'm not sure if it should go toward investments yet. Let's dig in a little more. Are you guys renting right now? Yes, we are. Okay. And you rent to 2,400 a month.

Starting point is 01:16:45 So at this stage of the game, once you set that money aside today, you'll be in baby step four, five, and six. And so I would be working on investing 15% of your household income. So for you guys, that would look a lot like, what's that per month, Ken? Do the math for me here.

Starting point is 01:17:01 120. What are you doing? Hit me again, I'm sorry, I was thinking about- So 18 grand a year. Yeah. So basically 1,500 bucks a month math for me here, 120. What are you doing? Hit me again, I'm sorry, I was thinking about. So 18 grand a year. So basically 1,500 bucks a month from your future income should be going toward investing. So that 20K might become a starter

Starting point is 01:17:13 down payment fund for you guys. That's what I personally would do. And would you recommend keeping that in cash? I would keep, if this is a shorter term goal, let's say in the next few years, I would just keep it in a high yield savings account. I would not keep it in cash. You gotta at least keep up with inflation

Starting point is 01:17:28 and let this money grow for you. And so a high yield savings account is the place I would store any short term savings goals, any emergency fund. Okay. And do you have any recommendations for high yield savings? Absolutely. Yeah, you can check out Laurel Road

Starting point is 01:17:42 is one that has been a great partner for my YouTube channel, laurelroad.com slash George. And then we've got Fairwinds as well. That's been a great partner on the Ramsey show. They have a great checking and savings bundle. So there's a lot of options out there and here's what I wouldn't do. I wouldn't go rate climbing.

Starting point is 01:17:57 People will try to go, well, I can get 3.8% over here, but now it's three, the rates are changing all the time and they've been going down. And so don't worry as much about that. Just don't leave it in a boring old checking account or a regular traditional savings account. That's the key.

Starting point is 01:18:12 And then beyond that, start investing in your retirement plans you have through your employer. You got a 401k or something equivalent? I know, unfortunately my employer doesn't give me that. Okay, you're not self-employed though. Your employer just doesn't have any retirement options? Yeah. Okay. So your next best bet would be something called an IRA.

Starting point is 01:18:31 And that's something you can open without having an employer. As long as you have earned income, you can open up an IRA. And there's a Roth version. All that means is you're paying the taxes now. You're not gonna get a deduction come tax time, but that money will then grow tax free and you can withdraw it tax free come retirement. Wow, that's awesome.

Starting point is 01:18:49 So you could fund that, it's about $7,000 a year is the max contribution for this year. And so you and your wife could both do one of those and that would get you real close to that 15% goal. Right, amazing. Absolutely, and I'm gonna send you as a newlywed gift a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke that walks you through all of this,

Starting point is 01:19:07 even on the wealth side, there's an investment traps chapter, wealth is patience chapter that will really help you guys navigate all of this. And I think that'll be a great start. 21 to be making six figures debt-free? Yeah, that's great. And I was only gonna add one thing, Michael, is that not that I'm thinking you're going to,

Starting point is 01:19:23 but I think this is the human condition. I agree 100% that I would put the thing, Michael, is that not that I'm thinking you're going to, but I think this is the human condition. I agree 100% that I would put the $20,000, the additional after he's done everything else, the emergency fund. Don't let that burn a hole in your pocket. And that's an old phrase, you know, when I was a kid, you know, your grandfather would give you 50 cents or something, and then don't let it burn a hole in your pocket, which I'm like, what does that mean? It means, you know, hang on to it,

Starting point is 01:19:46 don't spend it right away. And I think for a young couple, certainly this young, you get 20 grand there, there's a lot of people that will talk them into using the 20 grand right now to get in a house, as opposed to be patient, let that 20 grand be an awesome start, and really build a really big down payment. Oh, absolutely.

Starting point is 01:20:08 They're in the New York City area, which means 20 grand is not a suitable down payment. But you know what I'm talking about. There will be no shortage of people that'll go, oh, take the 20 grand and only put this in small, and then, no, no, no, sit tight on that 20, build on that 20 would be my advice. Absolutely, I love it. And then, no, no, no, sit tight on that 20. Build on that 20 would be my advice. Absolutely.

Starting point is 01:20:26 I love it. Great call, Michael. Thank you. Paige is in Oklahoma City up next. How can we help Paige? Hi, how are you guys today? Doing great. What's going on?

Starting point is 01:20:37 I'll just get right to my question. I inherited a home, free and clear, about three years ago. I was wondering if we should sell it and put that towards our mortgage or keep it as an investment property Oh, this is a fun one. I like this. Tell us more Tell us how much rent it's how much profit it is spitting off and rental or have you not started renting it yet? It's been printed with a tenant for about a year and a half. She's great on time every single month, but she just gave us notice that she would probably be moving out in June. Okay.

Starting point is 01:21:11 And it's paid for, correct? Yes. So what were you making in a year for renting that? Roughly $10,000 to $12,000. $10,000 to $12,000. After taxes. Okay. And what's it worth?

Starting point is 01:21:24 So it probably would go for about to 12,000. After taxes. Okay. And what's it worth? So it probably would go for about 180. Okay. And what's left on your mortgage? 300. So you could throw the proceeds of the home sale if you did sell it toward the mortgage, knocking it basically in half? Yes.

Starting point is 01:21:44 That's definitely, I mean, the fact that you're even calling about this makes me think you don't really wanna be in the landlord business. I mean, we, it hasn't been an issue. We're just kind of laying options. We're almost done with Baby Step 2 and we'll have Baby Step 3 done by May.

Starting point is 01:22:00 So we're just kind of looking ahead. So just trying to see if that was probably a better investment or just keeping it as a rental. I'll tell you what I would do if I were you. Because the house is not worth an enormous amount, it's not going to, I mean, how much more is it going to keep going up over 10 years, George? You know what I mean? And what's your household income, Paige? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:22:22 We make about 110. Okay. So losing 10,000 in rental income is not going Yeah. We make about 110. Okay. So losing 10,000 in rental income is not going to make or break your budget. Right. It was a small part of your income anyways. And they're not keeping 10, because you guys got expenses on that house. So for those reasons, George, for those reasons, Paige, I, if I were you, would sell the house and knock that mortgage of your actual home in half.

Starting point is 01:22:42 I think that's going to put you further ahead financially than actually keeping the house. I just don't see that that house is worth that much long term versus your current home. And your current homes were double. And you're going to be able to roll that in time like George has done. George Whitney has done that recently. And so that's what I would do if I were you. I'd sell the rental and put it all towards your current home. Okay. All right. Good luck. This is an exciting time. I assume you agree with that. I got out in front of the money guy. You know, Dave loves real estate. He'd probably just hang on to it because he loves real estate and he's got lots of tenants and lots of properties. But it's not a like everyone needs to own property and everyone needs to have investment property you could take that 180 grand

Starting point is 01:23:26 put in an investment account and you can make the same amount you're making from your renter just without the hassle and so there's no one way to do this and I like her plan of getting rid of the primary mortgage freeing up the mortgage payment investing that and then later on they can always save up and pay for an investment property with cash yeah but great question all right that puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. If you want to catch more of it, we're still sticking around. You got to go to the Ramsey Network app to get it. We'll see you over there.

Starting point is 01:23:53 This is The Ramsey Show. The The right questions are the key to unlock personal and professional potential. That means if you're not where you want to be, you are not asking the right questions. I'm Ken Coleman and this is what my new show, Front Row Seat, is all about. Over my career, I've had the distinct privilege to interview successful people from all walks of life and to coach over 10,000 professionals who wanted more. What sets successful people apart is a never-ending desire to learn and grow. Each week, I'll be joined by industry leaders

Starting point is 01:24:54 and world-class experts to have a conversation about how to get better, move up, and lead well in work and life. But the best part of this show is you get to be a part of the conversation. Live in studio, we'll have a group of professionals just like you who have the power to ask questions and steer the discussion in real time.

Starting point is 01:25:12 It's an opportunity to get real answers to real questions, like how to make the right decisions, have hard conversations, live a balanced life, and discover your next steps to grow. Join us every Tuesday for conversations that are guaranteed to surprise, challenge, and inspire you. Check out Front Row Seat wherever you get your podcasts.

The Ramsey Show - The Key to Financial Success: Slow and Steady

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