The Ramsey Show - The Road to Financial Freedom Begins With Hard Choices

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

💳 Share your thoughts and you could WIN a $500 Gift Card! 💸 Start taking control of your money in 2025 at our free livestream Rachel Cruze & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: "Should I re-home my dog to pay off debt?" "How do we start saving for retirement?," "We don't want to get married," "Is it time for us to move out of California?" "My parents asked me to loan them 50k so they could put a down payment down on a house" Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp ◎ Get 10% off Byrna product bundles and more! 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY 💸 Learn more about opening a high-yield savings account with Laurel Road 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at The Nokbox 💵 Learn more about Timothy Plan 🏛 Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📱 Listen to the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan ☂️ Get trusted insurance coverage that fits your budget.  💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 💪 Invest with confidence! Get tickets to Investing Essentials 🏘️ Free Tools & Resources to Reach Your Home Goals 💰Watch 90-Day Money Makeover. Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and host of the Dr. John Deloney show, as well as bestselling author, John Deloney. And so we are here to answer your questions, life, money, career, relationships, anything and everything.

So give us a call at 888-825-5225. Up first we have Sierra in Cincinnati. Hey Sierra, welcome to the show. Hi. Hello, hello. How can we help? Oh yes, I was just calling to inquire. I've been, you know, recently addicted to listening to the show and so I'm wanting to pay down debt and get into a position to invest more. So I had a question in regards to if I should possibly rehome my dog even though I don't want to, to get out of dog boarding fees when I'm traveling for work. Oh no. Okay.

How often? Yeah. Most people listening like their dogs more than any people in their life. Sierra, how often are you traveling? I'm sorry? How often are you traveling? So with my new job I travel a little less than I did before. So probably it just goes with the storms, potentially like five to six months out of the year and I'm usually gone from like 10 to 14 days at a time. Okay and what's the what's the boarding situation?

Are you going to like an actual border? Do you have someone come and and pet sit? So I have a sitter now that's pretty consistent and looking at my my bank did an overview of all my spending and for my dogs I spent about $10,000 last year. Oh wow. Yeah, if you're going half the year, I mean. How long have you had to go? Or should I like maybe talk to my sitter to try to see if we can negotiate something? That's what I was wondering.

Or is there some, I just wonder if there's other options. I always hate just like a, this is my only option. I would say get rid of the dog. Oh my gosh. I know, I know half America just hung up on like, they just are gonna send me cards and letters to James about me. How much are you making a year?

So my base is around 79,000. Okay. And with my additional pay when I'm traveling, I usually like last year, I think my gross is about $87,000. Okay. But this isn't financial to me. This is actually for the dog. But I just also got a raise too.

So this year my gross would probably be around $90,000 to $95,000. Amazing. Okay. How much debt do you have? So a lot. So I have 20 thousand dollars for my car and then I have a credit card with 10.5 on it. Okay. And then student loans is 70 thousand plus 5 thousand of interest. So 75k. Okay, so you're right at 100 grand of debt making 95, spending 10 grand on the dog per year. Might be going down because you have a new job. And how long have you had the dog? They're five and six.

You have two. Five and six, ah, okay, but it's like for the dog's sake. They only get to see you half the year, right? Yes, but they're excited when they see me when I come back. Sierra, all dogs are excited. I know. I haven't gone for five minutes. No, I, okay, here's what I would do, Sierra. I just wonder if there's anyone in your life who wants a dog as well and you can like co-parent this dog. You're out of your mind. And for like six months out of the year, this dog goes and lives with your friend

who's like great with a dog and loves it. And you guys. Well, so it's not like a consistent, like a storm could happen today or a storm can happen a couple months from now, it's not like consistent. Like right now, I'm in down season, but like storm season. Yeah I understand. I'm just saying I mean there's no friend like that Rachel.

I'm joking like the co-parenting. No she could you could totally have a friend that's like oh I love dogs and they're in serious like I'm just I I can't. I have some of the greatest friends on the planet. I don't know any friend that'd be like anytime Jaronite drop your dog off for six months that'd be awesome. I don't know that person, maybe. Maybe. I think you're right. I think you're right. What brought you to this question even

that you're considering it? Do you think it's the right move? No, I don't. I don't know. I don't know if I would. If I track my expenses and just cut everything out, I'm looking at including $200 a month towards the dogs. I'm looking at like including like $200 a month towards the dollars when I'm not traveling. Just to like build up an

expense. Like right now I'm at like $2,800 in expenses a month. Okay. My last job used to give me per diem so the per diem helped out with the dog costs. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, because here's my thing, I'm like, Sarah, you'll be out of debt in what, probably two and a half years. Like if you really-

Well, when I ran it was like three, like almost four years with the student loan. Yeah, I think you can do it faster. I would pick up an extra job. I mean, I would do things because- Especially during the slow season, can you work right now? I've been trying to think of options.

I'm not in an area where there's like Uber or DoorDash or anything in that nature. Okay. Yeah, I would get creative on the income side and be able to pay off your debt faster because here's the thing, the debt is so temporary. You could be out of debt in, let's just say two and a half years.

And then, you know, your dogs are being ate. Dogs are forever. You know, we ate. You'll have like another two years. Yeah, maybe that's the question. Do you want to go get, during your off time, if you're home for a month or two without a big storm, do you wanna work on those days that you're home,

work, put in eight, 10 hours a day, just bust it, go throw boxes at Walmart, go pick up a shift at McDonald's or whatever, work really hard on those days. And over the course of a year, you'll probably earn about an extra 10 grand. If those dogs are worth that investment, then you've answered your question. That's a good way of framing it,

that if you had to work extra and make $800 a month. To cover the cost of those dogs, is that investment, is that worth it for you? Yeah, possibly could. It's just like they'd be in the house more if I work more. Okay. But I think you have to just make that call for yourself. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, and there's a lifestyle question for sure of the happiness of the dogs, right? I'm like, yeah, if you are gonna have to, you know. Yeah, and I spoil them too, so. Yeah, but we spoil our dogs, not for them, but we spoil them for us, right? I spoil mine too.

Yeah, probably. But the dogs don't care, right? My son found a couple of like old cow bones in this old field and he brought them home. The dogs are the happiest they've ever been with like these old cow bones. They don't care. We spoil them for us, right? Yes. All right. If you need an anchor when you come home, you've been gone for a month, you need an

anchor to get home to, so you don't come home to an empty apartment. I totally get that. I totally get that. Okay. But I think you just, the sucky part here is math doesn't care about any of this. The math is you owe $100,000 and you make 90. And how quickly can we get that debt paid off? Yes, I think that's it. I think it's just, it's the sacrificial question.

And is that sacrifice worth it, getting rid of them to gain an extra 20 grand over two years and how quickly does that help you become debt-free faster? And if that's not worth that sacrifice, you're like, no, I will be in debt six months longer in order to keep the dogs or whatever, you know, it ends up being for you. And that's great too. So no, I can't sit here in good faith and say, yes, you need to sell these dogs. But I can't say if it was me, I probably would. I wouldn't sell them, they're not for sale. And I like my dogs more than almost every person I know.

And so I'm a dog guy, but yeah. That's a hard one, Sierra. 20,000 bucks. I would find option C. See if there's a good friend who will take them. That friend does not exist. I believe that friend is out there, Sierra. This is the Ramsey show.

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decade, and I trust them to protect yours too. So get enrolled today by calling 800-356-4282 or just visit zander.com that's z A and D er.com Welcome back to the Ramsey show. If you are a listener of the show and you've been listening for a while, we actually have a survey that is out and it is live. Oh, great. The segment after I told this poor woman to sell her dogs,

we're gonna do a Ramsey survey. Oh, everybody's gonna be like, what do we not wanna hear John telling people to sell their dogs? By the way, George Campbell, the guy who loves his two dogs more than any human. It's absurd. He didn't hear the whole call though.

I know, but he was with me. He walked by and said, Sell the dogs. Sell the dogs. But he didn't have all the context. I think George would give both of his feet and one of his hands for, both of his hands for his two. For Olive and Blue, oh yeah.

What are their names? Olive. The fact that you and his friend know the names of his hands for, both of his hands for his two. For Olive and Blue, oh yeah. What are their names? Olive. The fact that you and her, his friend know the names of his. We talk about these dogs all the time on Smart Money Happy Hour. They get brought up more than Mia, his daughter. I know. That's how much. You know, they have to wipe their butts. They wipe their. Do you know that?

Oh, I do. That's what I told George. They are friendship dogs. I put George on friendship probation. And you have to do that. I was like, you don't have a dog at that point. You know why? Cause God didn't make that dog friendship probation. And you have to do that. I was like, you don't have a dog at that point. You know why? Cause God didn't make that dog.

And then the dogs have to sleep in the bed. Oh, it's a whole thing. Anyway, if you want to hear more about George's dog, make sure to check out this survey. But for real, we want to know your favorite parts of this show, what you like, what you don't like, what you want to hear more of, I mean, just everything. We want to know your thoughts around the show

to make the show better because we do this for you guys. And so there's really two ways that you can participate. One, you can text the word survey to 33789, or you can visit ramsesolutions.com slash survey. Or if you're listening on podcast or you're watching or listening on YouTube, we will put the link in the description, but we're giving away a $500 gift card to someone that fills out the survey.

But again, go fill that out. It's very, very helpful to us. Again, ramsysolutions.com slash survey. All right, going to the phones. We have Lisa in Houston, Texas. What's up, Lisa? Hey, Lisa. Hi, how are y'all?

We're doing great, how can we help? Good. Question, my husband and I are both in our late 50s. We have nothing safe for retirement. What can I do? Well, I should say that for myself, I'm clinically and legally blind and he works offshore, so he's not home a lot. So I'm just trying to figure out what can we do. Who helps with your caretaking while he's gone?

Nobody, I'm here alone. Oh, good grief. Oh yeah, I can maneuver pretty well, thank God. My goodness. So you'll have no pension, no social security, anything? Or disability at all, Lisa? No, no. In my life, we've been married for almost 37 years. I've only worked maybe four years, if you connect all the days together. So I don't have anything like that.

Does he though? Yes, I'm sure he does. He's been working for Elvo, but yes. Okay. Y'all need to combine your money because y'all are going to be retired together. Okay, well listen, I don't have any money. I don't, like I say, I haven't worked in years. I know, I don't think you're hearing what I'm saying. I know, I'm talking that. Go ahead. No, it's okay. Like, you haven't worked, but you've kept that household up while he's gone, right? Oh right, yes and so his money has the money that he's earned and the money and it's y'all's money is what I'm trying to say. Right right it is. So we don't we share bank account and everything. Perfect so does he have a retirement

with his company or does he have mutual funds or a 401 or Social Security? Social Security, I believe he would have that. As far as 401k, the companies with this company bought out two years ago. So I think they just started the 401k, but he hasn't gotten into it yet. He's been at this company for two years. OK, Lisa, how much does he make a year? About one hundred and one thousand. Lisa, how much does he make a year? About 101,000. Okay. 100,000. And what kind of debt do you guys have? Well, I have a SBA loan on my home, car debt. Do you even know the amounts or what? Yes, I would love to. Okay. The house, 85,000. Okay. The car 45,000. Um, credit card debt. We have, um, maybe three

cards all together. It's about 25,000. A student loan 16,000. Um, and what you said was a SBA. That can't be the right one. What, what loan do you have on your house? Yes, it's SBA. What is we had paid off the house back in 2014 But when Harvey hit and my husband's company folded back doing bankruptcy We had to live off of whatever money we had in his 401k and he didn't get another job offshore until a year later So how did y'all get an SBA loan had he taken it out with his company? Y'all just took that money and used it for your expenses? It was for the, it was because of Harvey, the flood.

Uh huh. Yeah, we were flooded out, our whole city. So we didn't have insurance. Yeah, I was in Houston, I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah, we didn't have house insurance at that time because he had lost his job a year before. And so therefore we didn't.

You took out the 85,000 to fix the home and to live off of okay Yes, yes, okay And nothing saved you yeah, do you any cash? Well, I do have 9,000 cash, but that's I'm saving to get a roof. I'm gonna need a roof before August a roof on the home? Yes. Okay.

So yeah, I mean, this is a tough one, Lisa, just because of the reality of these numbers and where to get you guys in order to start looking into retirement. I mean, he probably will not be retiring anytime soon. Is his health okay? It's okay. Okay.

Yeah, so I think that you guys just need a game plan. I think you've, and to a degree, have kind of just been floating and, you know, using debts to fix issues, also, you know, kind of patch up things in life, and there's not really been a plan. So what I would do is I would sit down with you guys together tonight,

and you both really need to be on the same page like in a really deep way. John was mentioning that earlier, but like what you're gonna have to do here in the next seven, eight, nine, 10 years is, I mean, it's a decade of saying, hey, we're gonna have to do something completely different the way we've been doing money

and you both have to be bought into that. And so what it's gonna look like, Lisa, is to be paying off the smallest debt first. So you're gonna work on those student loans, those 16,000. You're going to next cut up the credit cards, start paying those off smallest to largest. And if there's three of those, so the goal here is to write down

all of your debts separately. So if you have two student loans, write them as two different loans. Three credit cards, write them as three different, because the goal here is to write out every piece of debt you have and you're going to pay off the smallest one first and you're going to work your way through. But I mean, this is without with without any extra income and just him. Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna take you guys probably

three to four years to get out of this. And so my challenge to you, Lisa, is, you know, we've talked to a lot of people on this show with a lot of different situations and a lot of obstacles in life. And we've talked to people that have been legally blind and that they haven't gotten disability or they haven't been able to apply for government assistance or anything like that, but they've done things creatively

to think through, hey, how in any way can I bring in an extra? So like even you, Lisa, being able to bring in $400, $500 extra a month, I mean, just something, because the more that you guys sacrifice lifestyle, don't live on anything, and you throw as much as you can at that, that's really the only way to get out of this. I wish there was a magic wand just to wave

and change the whole situation, but your steps are gonna be Lisa to get out of debt first and then beyond that save some cash and then start looking into retirement. That's why I'm saying it's gonna probably be a good decade and then I would start lowering my expenses because when you guys get to the point of retirement, I want you to be able to yes use social security but also be able to cash flow your lifestyle at that point

from the decisions you're making today. Okay. And if you were my mom I don't want to over sensationalize this but I have a couple of buddies that worked offshore out in the Gulf and your husband's time out there is short and you know that right I can't keep doing that late into his 50s that's hard work that's a young man's game so y'all are making a six-figure income I would get maniacal about paying the stuff off there's no reason to have a $45,000 depreciating asset car in a driveway

when you can't drive because of your vision and he's gone a month or two or three at a time. Right, that's a used Camry house. You don't need a big old fancy nice car on the driveway. You need to sell that ASAP and knock that debt off. But y'all are just gonna have to get radical. And I hope he'll be there with you. I think the words I would start with are I'm very very scared about our situation

Would you be willing to make a radical shift with me? Because I mean Harvey was in 14 it flooded. It was a zoo That's ten years. That's 11 years ago, and y'all still haven't messed with those debts. Let's get on it This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey folks, we all have stories. The family and cultural stories that we were born into, the stories of the things that have happened to us, both good and bad, and the stories that we constantly tell ourselves. And while we can't go back and change any of our old stories,

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Alright, going to the phones, we have Ben in Kansas City. Hey, Ben, welcome to the show. Good afternoon. I'm a longtime listener, Kansas City. Hey, Ben, welcome to the show. Good afternoon. I have a long time listener, uh, really believe in your systems. Uh, I'm in a situation. I'm a blast of my three kids is graduating from college in May when she was entering dental school. And over the years, I've heard you and Dave and all talk about the fact that be careful about taking student loans and her dental school is gonna be approximately $400,000 over the four years and I'm trying to find out what solution or what

ideas you might have to finance that so we don't have to take out the traditional school loans. You're not going to like our answer. Okay. I spent my whole career in higher ed. That's my, that's been my whole world until just a few years ago. And as my son says, I became a YouTuber. And I also studied the mental health of attorneys, physicians, health professionals. At the very top of that list is dentists. I believe personally, I didn't do a financial study, I believe it's because they get out

of school with three or four hundred thousand dollars in debt and then they immediately go in and are told they have to buy a practice or buy into a practice or just to start open up their own shingle they got to get another million dollar business loan to get this thing going and then they find themselves on a 50-year treadmill that they will never be able to get off of and so the thing I would implore you to do is please don't take out half a million dollars in debt. And I know it's your daughter's dream. I love dentists.

I love good dentists. I've bought many a dentist a nice car with the work they've had done. But it's such a crushing burden. And I've just had the blessing yet the heartbreak of sitting behind closed doors with dentists when their worlds are falling apart because they owe so much money. Yeah. So there's not an easy thing I could tell you. I wish I was, man, but I'm sorry.

It's become so insanely cost prohibitive. And I do know I'm not one of these end of timers. Like if med school is expensive because, you know, you have to hire a surgeon who knows how to take a heart out of somebody and put another one in there. You gotta hire that person out of the marketplace to go teach at a college, right?

That's expensive. So med school's gonna be expensive. Dental school's gonna be expensive. I want dental school to be done right and done great, all that, so I'm all about it. But I can't, having seen the psychological toll of owing half a million dollars on day one of your brand new job, I can't good conscience say you

just just go find a student loan and go knock that out. So are there alternatives that we could look at as far as financing it? Can I help finance it? What other options are out there other than school student loans? Well, with these types of schools, law, I mean, I put law school in this, you know, if you're getting your MD, dental school, you know, there, there are situations where we've talked to people that have done it debt free, but they're very creative. They're very unique. It's a very kind of a small sliver of whether it's,

these types of working for the school internships. Like there's like different types of ways that you can do it, different programs, specifically when you're looking at law, specifically when you're looking at medical and even dental. And again, I don't even know where to direct you in that, but we have had people call and we've had someone, we had someone just a few months ago on the debt-free stage

and they were, they went and I think it was their law degree they got and they got it completely paid for. So again, there's like these creative alternatives Ben that you can look into that are out there. Again, they're very, they're slim. It's there. What's your finances Ben? Where are you and your wife? Well, I'm 64. My wife is 60. So approaching retirement, still working full-time. We're completely debt-free.

So, you know, we're we and we had a 529 account for each of our kids and that helped them through their undergraduate and they all got scholarships as well. So that helped a lot. And we haven't even applied for scholarships yet for dental school. We're going to be starting that process. Is there anything left in any of the 529s from the other kids that have already completed school and are not going to go back? There is the total amount at this point in time is about sixty six thousand dollars

with all the 529s in your kids names not just hers yes okay yes okay so I guess the creative adventure dude would be and like I say this is me spitball and there's not an easy solution here until graduate programs decide we're going to intentionally. And I think it's gonna have to be a university and a public partnership. And you know how I feel about partnering with the government on anything, but we all need doctors, we need good attorneys, we need good dentists, but we also need doctors

and attorneys and dentists that can breathe at night so they can sleep, so they can show up for the least of these, and they can't with this kind of money. So if you immediately walk in, and so now you're down to 344, because you got 66,000, and if your daughter can punt her entrance for one year

and get a job and make $50,000 and live with you guys, and you can, now you're down to 300, right? So I would tell you to try to figure out a way to cashflow it. And then if you get some scholarships down to a certain, I mean, that's what I'd say to figure it out. And if you have to postpone a year or two, they'll punt your admission for a year,

they'll defer it for a year. And you can figure it out that way. But again, it's a long shot, it's just hard. Yeah, and I would say for her been to go down that road, what John is saying, because I know two people that are dentists and they had to buy a practice and or pay into, I mean, like it was, there was so much debt on top of- There's two long shots.

Yes, like there's, and you know, kind of unlike a doctor that just kind of plugs into a hospital, right? Unlike an attorney who can, could literally practice law from their house, you have to go buy dentists chairs and tools. Yeah, it's a different, it's a different road. And so I would implore her to go on this discovery and go and enter, seriously, go and ask and talk to

two or three dentists and just ask because we did a documentary, Ben, and we'll put the link in the show notes here on the show called Borrowed Future and one of the guys that we interviewed, he was a dentist, a million dollars in debt, a million dollars in debt. Hey, Ben, let me ask you this. How many schools has she applied to? Three different schools.

And so she got into just one or all of them are about 400,000? She just got into one. Okay. Is it a private school? Is it a for-profit school? Is it a reputable school? It's a reputable school, but it is a private school. Which is going to turn... Maybe it is going back to the public schools that she didn't get admitted to and either asking the admissions counselor. I know with

the law school admissions folks I worked with, they were remarkable about telling candidates, here's how your candidacy could have improved when they would trickle back and ask. And maybe it's applying to more and more public schools across the country and just giving it a shot, especially if you defer enrollment for a year. But private is going to be your most expensive option. My hope would be you could find a great state dental school for a couple hundred grand. And that is what it's going to cost. And I don't blink an eye about that.

But then that would give your family a chance to rally around her and to do this without borrowing money. People tell me about their experiences with big banks all the time. Bad service, fees that nickel and dime them to death, and predatory lending that tries to catch them in never-ending cycles of debt. So if you're ready for a bank

that puts people over profits, check out Fairwinds Credit Union. I recommend Fairwinds because they share our Ramsey values of helping people get out of debt and live generously. If you go to fairwins.org slash Ramsey you'll see the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans. This account bundle is designed to help you take control of your finances and stay out of debt and Fairwinds also has a

great mobile app that's safe and secure so you can manage your transactions with peace of mind. Fairwinds has been helping people avoid big bank traps for 75 years. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. It's easy to join no matter The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by YREFY. Student loan debt is a swamp of thousands of people that find it hard to escape from. So you don't have to be another statistic in the student loan swamp.

For distressed private student loans, there is YREFI, and we trust YREFI because they help you with a low fixed rate that you couldn't get anywhere else to help you really stick to your budget and get out of debt. So learn more at yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Jessica in Nevada. Jessica writes, my partner and I have been

together for four years. Both of us went through horrific divorces. We live together and have part-time custody of our young children from those marriages. We are about to have a baby together but do not want to get married even though we are in a committed loving relationship. How can we provide security and protection for each other and our baby in case something happens to one or both of us? My partner has a very well-paying job. I'm a teacher and once we have a baby, I'll probably work part-time or stay at home for

a teacher. Once we have a baby, I'll probably work part-time or stay at home for a while." So how can we provide security and protection for each other and our baby in case something happens to one or both of us? You know, I like my answer, but get married and give your kid a legal foundation for which... Good gosh, what a mess. I mean, that's what you need to do. I mean, I could go sitting you need to do I mean I'm gonna sit now with the wheels and a state's attorney I don't know the state of Nevada they may have some specific some different legal things but the greatest gift you could give your kid is to process and heal from the horrific

divorces and both of y'all go to the therapy that you need and get the care that y'all need and then don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. And so you'll have a, like you went through a really tough car wreck. That doesn't mean we never drive again, but that means we do need to get over the anxiety of getting in a car again. We got to practice driving.

We got to get a new car, but we're gonna have to get back out on the road sometime. And so the safest thing you can do is get married. And then if one of you dies, then there's legal protections across the board there. But I'd go talk to an estate attorney if you aren't gonna do that. I don't really have an answer for you other than that.

Yeah, because I do feel like some people, it's like this avoidance of like, I don't want marriage because it hurt last time. So we're gonna just not deal with it and do it our own way. Exactly. And because of that, what you missed so many opportunities to probably heal from those traumatic divorces of what you're saying,

and it actually causes you to face this fear of, yeah, of like, I don't wanna do this again, I'm so scared, but yet, we basically are married, from like an emotion, right, we're living together, like there's a level. We're playing house, yeah, yeah. But we think we've avoided a potential hurt because we don't have this. Legal standing.

Right. And what it's like, it's like actually a better analogy is we were driving in a car and we got in a wreck and we got hurt by our seatbelt. And so we're gonna drive again, but we're never wearing a seatbelt again. And what that means is if you get in another wreck, it's gonna be way bigger mess

and the likelihood you're gonna get hurt is way worse than what it was. And so you chose to get back into a romantic relationship, you chose to both share a house together. You both chose to make a human together. So the only thing you're not doing is protecting yourself with the legal protection of a licensed marriage. Yeah.

And dude, I've been getting this question more and more and more, like, I don't want to get the government involved. If you have a kid, the government's involved because you made it one of their citizens. You've done that already, right? If you buy a property with somebody, you've got the government involved. So it's cool to be like, I don't want to move out. They're involved. So it's cool to be like, I don't want to move out. They're involved, so move on. Is there a, what's the psychological

like play here when you're not married and doing all of this, right? Living together, having a baby together. And then from, not just from a legal standpoint, but what does that do emotionally, psychologically to say like, oh, well, we've entered a marriage? Does something shift in that? It can, and if it's, you've got, you know,

if they did go through horrific divorces, which I believe, then yeah, if you have trauma surrounding an old behavior and you reengage in that new behavior, you're gonna have to deal with it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But is there a level of commitment? Like, is there something about the seriousness that people that- There's something about,

like, it does, yes. You have to be all in. I wish there's another way to say it But if you're not all in then when things get rocky, which they will you so much you have a leaf Yeah, you hop so much easier to leave. And so what you're what you're almost guaranteeing is any bumps in the road in the future It's just gonna be messier except quite honestly Jessica and she's an or I'm gonna over gender this but this you're in the bad spot here because if his name is on this house and You don't have a job and you become just baby mama or live-in girlfriend and y'all break up. You're in a mess Right having to re-enter the workforce

So in a weird way a marriage may protect you more right now and so again meet with a State attorney in Nevada and work that stuff out individually but yeah, man, I hate this for you because y'all are in a mess you're trying to Your avoid a real try to go swimming like getting wet and you're already in the pool man in the pool All right. Let's go to Richard in Anaheim, California. Hi Richard, welcome to the show.

Hey guys, thank you for taking the call. Really appreciate it. Absolutely, I know you're kind of south of everything going on there, but you guys good? North. Yeah, we're good. We're very safe. Is it Anaheim south of, it's south of Santa Monica, right?

Yeah, we're Orange County. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, sorry. I used to be a geography teacher John doesn't know it's a California geography yeah how can we help so here's what I'm asking I'm gonna be I'm 50 years old basically with three children you know all toddlers under the age of 10 and you know I'm tired of just the day-to-day rat race my job you know, all toddlers under the age of 10. And, you know, I'm tired of just the day to day rat race. My job, you know, pays for our bills, but I don't ever have anything saved. Um, my wife is a stay at home mother, um, taking care of the kids.

Then we homeschool. Okay. It's very, very important to us. We're very religious when it comes to that. So that's a non-negotiable for getting a job. But you know I own my home, I have 300 grand in equity, you know I had been on the job a long time and I'm just you know I'm just staying above water. Cost of living is just so expensive here in California you know my monthly nut that I have to pay part of my French is you know $8,300 a month you know my mortgage is $4,900 I have you know one debt which is my car payment you know I owe like $17,000 my wife's cars paid off you know so I'm just hey Richard at the point. Yeah, you feel like

you're just running, running and there's no traction. You should move. I want to move to another state. Move to another state. I did it. And pay cash. I did it. And it was, some things were really great, some things were really tough. And the good thing is that we got a chance to start over and make a new life. And the bad thing is that we got a chance to start over and make a new life. And the bad thing is, is I went with me. So any of my old stuff that I didn't like about myself or my parenting or how I was as a husband,

it came with me, so I had to deal with it here. But you should move. What's your wife say, Richard? My wife's open to it. It's just her family is all within a 20 mile radius within here in Southern California so it's a little bit of a challenge. That's what I did. They're older. It's not good. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah, and that's it is hard and you know it just I could go and pay

cash for a house in another state not have any debt. My income is going to stay the same in the next 10 years. It's not gonna fluctuate that much going up and I make a hundred and thirty seven thousand a year. What do you do for a living? I do a national accounting. Okay, okay, yeah. Travel. I travel a lot and I thought I'd get in a second job on the weekends but then I'll never see the kids because I'm I travel. Hey Richard, Richard, Richard. Yeah. I can hear it. You travel and every minute you're traveling, you're thinking I should be moving. And when you're at night and the kids are in bed, you're looking up other real estate in other states,

here's what you're doing. You're slowly making yourself crazy. Just move. And here's the beautiful part. If you hate it, y'all can move back. But right now, I think you need to go. Ask your wife can we do 24 months? Can we commit to a new town and a new area? There's going to be a lot of grieving, family's not going to like you, they're going to get mad at you. I went through that. Doing holidays

is going to be weird and so you may need to budget a little bit more for travel over the holidays. We'd have to do that too. And then get out of there, man. Go do something else. And this has nothing to do with California, it just has to do with you're done in this area and you want a little bit more. And you're trying to justify it any other way of like, oh, but everything's coming out. Stop being angry about it.

Just make your next move, man. It's not worth your soul in just being angry and all the time. And that's the thing is like, there's not a light at the end of the tunnel. It's just gonna be the same life over and over and over again. Until you do something different. Yeah, right change it and you can always go back. You can always go back.

Yep. Well, thanks so much the guys in the booth. Thank you, John. Always been a great host and thank you America. We'll be back. Mortgage rates have dropped. So if you're thinking about buying a home in the next year contact your local Churchill mortgage team right now. If you wait, more people will be in the market competing for the same homes and potentially driving up prices. Churchill will help you do the math to be sure your budget is correct, making your home a blessing and helping you build lasting wealth. Learn more at ChurchillMortgage.com. ChurchillMortgage.com. ChurchillMortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLS ConsumerAccess.org. Equal Housing Lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey

Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author, Dr. John DeLon. What up? And so we are answering your calls on life, money, relationships, career, anything and everything. Give us a call at triple eight, eight two five, five two two five.

And if you're listening live, yeah, we are here for the next two hours, so we'll be here by the phone. So give us a call. And the last hour, I'm not gonna lie, it was a heavy one. It was a sad hour. I know, I saw my dogs, James child cut his beard, it was a whole thing, it was a heavy, heavy hour. So we're gonna lighten it up a little bit on this one.

No, it's gonna be great. And our board is thing. It was a heavy heavy hour. So we're gonna lighten it up a little bit. No it's gonna be great and our board is full of calls from all around the country. So let's dive in. Let's have Michael start us off this hour in Chicago. What's up Michael? In Chicago. Hey Michael. Hi guys thank you for having me and thank you for taking my question. What's up man? So my parents asked me for 40 to 50k for a down payment for a second home. Oh god, no, don't do that. Okay, can Michael finish his question? Okay, go ahead. So they currently live about 10 hours away from the rest of us siblings and they don't have the down payment for that home. The reason for them not being able to move and be closer to us is my father is waiting to finish five more years at his job to collect a pension and they're wanting to have the flexibility to be closer but to have their own place. I'm 25 years old, just got out of my own debt. I'm really unsure what to do.

Yeah, I would say no. Why are they coming to you, Michael, and not another sibling? Why are they coming to you, Michael, and not another sibling? I'm the most financially secure right now. My other three siblings are living paycheck or just getting out of their own student loans. Okay. So what they're asking you is a couple of things. They've created a set of principles for their life. We're going to stay here for five more years.

We don't want to be uncomfortable when we travel. We wanna have our own place. Problem is, they're grown adults, but they can't afford these principles they've put into motion. So they come to their 25 year old child and said, you make our dreams that we can't afford, you make our principles concrete, because we can't.

And you, it's not your job By the way, this will mess up your relationship I would tell you there's a financial reason to not do this But the main thing is dude it will mess up your relationship with your dad Worry about yeah, so I don't do you have $25,000 in cash you can just hand them Yeah, yeah I'm debt-free now quite a bit in a savings account right now that he's aware of obviously he helps me look at

my financials he's the only one I talked to my financials about. You need to stop doing that by the way. Yeah. He's violated that trust and so you need to get a Smart Vestor Pro and have that person do that. I love my dad more than life itself and him and I don't go through the intimate details of our finances together. I have a person and he's got a person. And that helps preserve our relationship. Right.

I hate this for you, man. How do you, can you predict at all, Michael, just from the pattern of who they are, is it more your dad wanting this, you think, or your mom? So it's obviously a complex situation. All of us kids were all over the country when they decided to move down south away from us. And now two of my siblings are getting married in the next few months and, you know, wanting

to have children, children obviously pretty quickly. So I think a lot of it has to do with them wanting to be closer to us during those times, obviously being stuck at that place that they're at right now due to their current position. Yeah. Well, they wouldn't be able to come up a ton anyways because he's working still, right? I mean, how often would they be able to come up realistically?

Yeah, that's a good question too. And I don't know. So I'm going to ask them that. And honestly, Michael, for them, I'm like, I mean, how often would they be able to come up realistically? Yeah, that's a good question too. And I don't know. So I'm gonna ask them that. And honestly, Michael, for them, I'm like, I mean, just do an Airbnb for two weeks. Like if they're coming up, I mean, for them financially, that makes more sense instead of having an asset here. You know, we had some friends and their in-laws,

yeah, were out of state. They weren't asking them for money, but they were considering buying a condo. And after they ran all the numbers, like, well, we're really, probably realistically only gonna be here a total of maybe six weeks throughout the year. Like, if you put it all together, your kids are here,

you can stay with them or get a hotel. I don't know, it just, from a financial standpoint, it doesn't make sense, if you can't pay cash for a second home for it just to be there for your own leisure, but you're paying a mortgage on something that's literally just sitting there, it's not good, I wouldn't even suggest that to them if they called us and were like, hey, I want to take out a loan on a second home. Here's the situation. I would probably tell them, no,

I wouldn't do that anyway. Let alone borrow the down payment from your son. Yeah, I'm planning to talk with them in a few months about it to the both of them. But obviously, I wanted some advice. to them and just let them know. But obviously I wanted some advice. For sure. The language I would use is thank y'all so much for reaching out and that means a lot to me that y'all have noticed how I've turned my things around.

That's pretty cool. I've got some pretty clear financial goals that I'm trying to hit and so I'm not in a place where I can loan money to family members. Okay. And any response they have is they've got to own it, man. Right. I think, I think the biggest thing for me is my parents have allowed me to be as, you

know, in this position. And, and obviously I feel, what does that mean? They really pushed and you know, so how I got successful is just I got lucky doing what I do for job and lean on my parents a lot. And they had to take out some loans to get me, you know, to the point where I'm at now. More specifically, it has to do with obviously just the job that I have now. And, you know, I thought about changing my careers at one point, and I'm glad I stayed

with it because it's it's been very, very successful. Yeah, and I hear that, and I think we can give, I mean, my parents paid for my college, right? I mean, there are things that our parents do to give us a leg up. That is 100% being aware of that and saying that and the gratitude and that. I mean, I'm not ignoring that at all.

But also, Michael, you're a 25-year-old man who made decisions with his income where you could have gotten a second home, two cars, and you could be living paycheck to paycheck even though you make a lot of money, you could make other decisions, but you haven't. You've chosen to do things to get out of debt and to save, and you've done those Michael.

They didn't do those for you. And your siblings are example of like, your parents I'm sure helped them in certain ways as well, but they've chosen a different path. So like I give yourself credit. Do you know what I mean? Like you, you've, yes, our parents have helped us and we will always have that gratitude

and acknowledgements always. But also there's a point that we become adults and we get to make our own decisions. And from there is. And this isn't even at that level. Here's what I know for certain. If Dave Ramsey and Sharon Ramsey, I don't know how this happened,

if they fell on hard times, and they had nowhere to go, they have three amazing kids, one of them sitting next to me that would say, y'all come stay at the house, right? We'll help you out, we'll help you get on your feet. This is not that situation. Sure.

And so your sense of, you're thinking of your parents' investment in you as some sort of 401 that they put forward, and if they put that on you, shame on them. Parents don't pay for their kids' college as some sort of vehicle, investment vehicle, so that they get a demand of return so that when they want a different color car,

you have to be their bank. Your parents aren't destitute. They've made a series of choices starting a few years ago and they're like, screw this, we're moving out of here. We want to move far away and they did. Yeah, that's a great point. It's a second home. This is a second home.

It's a luxury. Yeah. You're right. So this isn't, if your dad was- If they couldn't pay for food. Then I'm all about it. We're gonna help out mom and dad. We're gonna honor our father and mother.

I'm all about that. But dude, if it's to pay for their, yeah, their second, loan of money for the second, I'm gonna say no, man. And- And I'll say this too, Michael, knowing my parents with the grandkids, they're very emotional right now

with this dream of, oh my gosh, our whole family's about to, there's gonna be babies, like their emotions are probably driving this as well. And so for five years, they're gonna be okay. They're gonna be okay. They're gonna be alright. Mom can come stay with you anytime she wants.

That's right. Thanks for the call, Michael. Hope that helps. Taking care of your health doesn't have to cost a fortune. That's why Field of Greens is in my house. Field of Greens is made from fruits and veggies selected by doctors to support your heart, liver, kidneys, and metabolism. And here's the best part, they're so confident your doctor will notice your improved health. They offer a money-back

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ramsysolutions.com slash insurance. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruz with Dr. John Deloney and we are answering your calls about life money relationships anything and everything so give us a call at triple 8 8 2 5 5 2 2 5 next we are going to Los Angeles and talking to Jessica hey Jessica welcome to the show hello thank you very much. Absolutely. How you guys doing? We're doing good. We're doing okay. We're actually about an hour out from LA. So we are not near the fire. Oh good. Oh, so sorry. We're thinking about you guys, man. Yeah, for sure. What a mess, mess, mess. Yes, yes. Prayers to everybody who's going through losing their house. And yes, we've been praying for everybody. For sure. How can we help? So our question is, we did Financial Peace University probably about eight years ago.

So our house bills are beautiful. I heard the guy earlier say that just his mortgage alone is $5,000. Our house bills all together come out to about $6,000 per month. Oh, good. Okay. come out to about $6,000 per month. But we started a business in 2020 and we got ourselves into $250,000 in debt, which is credit card and personal loan. Jessica.

$100,000, I know, I know. $100,000 of that is under the business and then the other is we used our personal credit cards. Me and my husband, we actually did go through some turmoil after 2020 and we were not on the same page. So that is part of what happened with the debt. So now we started going to church, we're going to counseling

and there is major potential in the business. But we also have in our home, we do have, um, they, I don't know after, you know, closing costs and things like that, but we have some equity in our house. Um, we owe 400,000 and we could potentially sell it for six 50 to seven. So the question is, do we, do we look into selling the house and getting the debt off of our shoulders and then growing the business or do we grow the business and try to pay off the debt while staying in our home? I would do the latter.

I wouldn't sacrifice the house for this because to a degree the business is still a dream, right? I mean, you don't have multiple years of it absolutely killing it, right? I know that has potential, but I would not sell my house on potential, no. Give me some numbers around the business. So like, what kind of business is it and where are you guys at in it?

Okay, so it is a wellness center and med spa all in one. And the business bills bills including paying ourselves is $17,000 and we make on average about $20,000. Okay, is this your only stream of income when you're paying yourself out of the business? Yes. Or do you guys have other jobs? This is it? Like you both are full time in this like you both are full time in this.

We both are full time in this, yes. Okay, so it's making 3000 a month net. Is that what you're telling me? Yes. Okay. Unless if something doesn't come up unexpected in the business. Sure, so what's, what are you seeing in the business

that's causing you to think there's gonna be this upward trajectory versus it just Continuing to be this and you make three grand a month Like I said earlier my husband and I we were not working together on the business so I I was doing it by myself, okay for the first three years and Just recently for a year we've been working together but we've like I said started going to church and counseling and now as of now we are on the same page we're actually fasting right now for it so

we're looking for answers as far as if we if we work together and we kill it in the business okay yeah so I hear all of that. So not to, I don't mean to keep being devil's advocate here because everything you just laid out is incredible. I mean, I think from a spiritual perspective that you guys are united in that, you're working on your marriage with a professional. I mean, like you're doing so many incredible things.

So is your thought process, because we are becoming more of a united team within our marriage. How is that going to correlate to bringing in more business? Just like just because you guys just because you guys are just a great team. Is that what you're thinking? Like we're just in a healthier spot. So it's going to show up in the business.

Yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So I. Please don Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I, um, please don't do that. I would, yeah, I'm going to need more evidence, business evidence, not relational evidence, that this business is really taken off because my hope is, is that it will. But I think you need to see numbers Jessica first and foremost in order to

to make this proclamation that like yes it's incredible right so giving it another you know 12 months because you guys how much you guys making a year off of it how much are you paying yourselves like how much will you make this year we are paying ourselves and with those numbers that we've paid ourselves the six thousand. Six thousand total. I'm sorry a month. A month between the both of you total or each individually six thousand? Between the both of us total. Yeah, how are you paying your bills? How are you guys eating? So that, what we're paying ourselves, with what we're paying ourselves, like we're just barely, barely,

barely getting by. Okay. Yeah. Okay, so what I would do, I'm trying to think, if I woke up in your shoes and you have this belief, because you've put so much sweat equity into this business, and like you said, like, okay, relationally, like we're killing it and I think it's gonna help in the business.

Like give it a try. Like I think continuing to try, but you guys have to make more money and it's not gonna come from the business because you're only pocketing three grand a month. I mean, like, you know, from a net standpoint, you're only netting three grand a month. And so you're barely above water in this.

And so you guys are gonna have to find other streams of income. You're gonna have to get another job. Until this business, yes, surpasses, and then you guys can go full time back into it, where that's your only job. But you guys, I mean, I would not recommend living on that tight of a tightrope, right?

You're walking a tightrope basically financially. So if I were you, I think I would feel more comfortable, yeah, having a completely another stream of income. And maybe that's him going and, you know, getting another, I mean, I know you wanna work together in the business, but I don't know if you guys can afford that right now. Yeah. And so, yeah, so I would.

Looking for another job. I would. And again, my prayer is that this does take off completely and it might, I so, yeah, so I would. I would. And again, my prayer is that this does take off completely and it might, I mean, yeah, I mean, Medspel's in LA, it's great, I mean, a great market for it. I mean, it really is. So like, I really pray that it does. And then I pray that's killing it.

And you're like, oh my gosh, husband, I need you back here because I am overwhelmed with work. There's so much, you know, so much happening. I need you back and you're going to make more, you know what I mean? Like when it starts making sense for both of you to be there, that's what I would do. And then I would not for him to get another job. Yeah, to get another job. I would. Yes. I need to do that also. Do I would I need to do that also? Like a per diem? I'm a registered nurse. So if would I do that also? I would just start knocking out'm a registered nurse. So if would I do that also?

I would just start knocking out some of this debt. Yes Yeah, okay. And then in the meantime, so is it pretty much doing financial university again? And then because in what do we do with the people who are calling right now the the debtors? Are you guys in the call? Are you guys behind on bills? Yeah, so remember we said that oh, so the numbers that I was giving you was without what we owe the credit card. So monthly we owe 10,000 in credit cards. And that's not getting paid?

No, for the past couple of months we've stopped. Oh God, sister. Yeah, lead with that next time. You gotta close your med spa. You can't afford it. You gotta go be a full-time nurse and then work all nights and weekends too. Yeah, you're about to get sued and they're about to start collecting on you. You have $10,000 a month.

How much credit card debt do you own? Do you owe? That number at the beginning beginning we said was... 250,000? Yes. Yeah. Y'all, y'all, y'all are in a big, this is not a time to be make starting a business that nets a profit of $36,000 a year. Like y'all need to go make a whole bunch of money right now.

And I guess the good news for you is you've got a golden ticket in your pocket, which is you're a registered nurse. Yeah. You go work all you want and make a bunch of money. Yeah, I mean, you guys can't, you can't afford your bills right now. And that's, that's the, that's the reality. And I'm so sorry that that's what it's come down to,

but I mean, you, you can't get behind on these credit cards that you already have for another couple of months. So yeah, you're right. Yeah. Both of you are going to have to get full time jobs outside the med spa. And then maybe this dream can come back into fruition down the road, but it's not a reality today. You can't do it. I'm so sorry. Remember the good old days of the internet before it was a privacy nightmare filled with

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you love or even just like. Their individual plans start at just nine bucks a month and you can sign up today at joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey for 20% off. That's joindelete.com slash Ramsey. Here's my New Year's hot take. Skip the resolutions this year. Look, we start every January with the best of intentions. We break out a fresh journal and fill it with a million goals we're totally gonna accomplish. And Gen Z would say you're doing the most. So what if we just pick one realistic achievable goal? And here's a really wild idea.

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Head over to the App Store and download every dollar for free. That's right, free, my favorite price. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. When it comes to getting your money in order for the new year, there's really one foundational place principle that you have to have when it comes to getting control of your money and that is a budget.

And so when it comes to budgeting, when it comes to everything else of getting yourself in control of your money, we're gonna talk about all of that on our live stream on January 23rd. It is a free live stream called Take Control of Your Money. It's hosted by Dave Ramsey and Jade Warshaw. And it's this idea of paycheck to paycheck living is so such a reality for so many people.

And to break that cycle to do something different, there are elements of budgeting. There's elements of getting out of debt. There's elements of looking towards the future and how you're going to build wealth. I mean, all of this is so, so key when it comes to winning with money. And so this live stream is for you and George Campbell and myself, we're gonna be joining the live stream

a little bit into it and we're gonna do some live Q&A. And so you'll be able to ask your questions and we can answer them right there. And when you sign up, you'll be entered to win our cash giveaway. So we're giving five people $4,000 each. So make sure you sign up at ramsysolutions.com slash live stream or click the link in the description

if you're listening on podcasts or watching on YouTube. Again, that is January 23rd. It's our free live stream for the new year kicking it off. And it's all about taking control of your money. All right, let's go to the phones and go to Katherine in Bellevue, Washington. Hey Katherine, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Yes, absolutely, how can we help? I am looking for a little advice on building my retirement starting at 42 years old. All right. So great. Okay, what are your questions around it? Basically, I just don't really know where to begin. There's so much information out there and where to get started and I don't have any support at work as far as 401ks or Roth IRAs or anything like that. Okay so your company does not offer a 401k? Correct. Correct.

Okay so really yeah the two the two best streams. Do you own the business or you you're an employee? I'm an employee. I'm a nanny and a house manager for a celebrity up here. Oh, OK. That's great. Yeah. OK. And how much are you making a year? 170.

170. OK. Yeah, so for you, are you like a 10, why am I blinking? A 1049? 1099. 1099. Thank you. Are you like a 10, why am I blanking? 1049? 1099. 1099, thank you. I collect a W-2 every year.

Okay, okay, so yeah. Do you have an LLC? Like would you apply for a SAP or is this just, you're just a W-2 employee going right into your... I'm a W-2 employee. Yeah, it's a massive, they have a pretty massive network. So I'm one of probably 300 employees. Okay. Okay, okay.

Yeah, I was gonna say, because if you were able to, yep, get around that in any way, you could do like a, yeah, a self-funded 401k or something for self-employed, but I don't think that would work with the W-2. Does your employer offer a 401? No. Okay. So, Catherine, if I were you, I I were you, I would do the Roth IRA.

You do, yeah, because I think it's $121,000 this year, or I'm not sure in 2025. If you make above that, you're gonna have to do what's called a backdoor Roth IRA. And so if you make above that income limit, which you do, you're going to have to, yeah, just do what's called a backdoor Roth. And if you sit down with a Smart Vestor Pro,

we can get you connected to one, or at least look at options in your area after this call. But what you'll do is basically open up a traditional Roth and there are all their fancy signages and all the things you kind of basically sign back over and you just basically turn it right into a Roth right there at that sitting. It just takes some signatures and it's completely legal but it's just called the backdoor Roth IRA. So that's an option that you can do you can put up to seven thousand

dollars in that and then above that I mean from a tax perspective there's not there's not a ton you could do. I mean, I would be investing. And so looking into just some good growth stock mutual funds and putting some money away. And so here's the key is 15% of your income is what you wanna be investing. And so once you max out that Roth, and then I would look above that and say,

okay, what's left of that 15%? And then I probably would, I would get, you know, you can do even an index fund or just a mutual fund. But when you sit down with a SmartVest or Pro, they can really help you with that because the tax advantage is not great. You will pay taxes when you take that money out at retirement, which the Roth you won't.

You'll be paying taxes before that. And so that's, yeah, that's kind of the sucky part of it. But I don't, I mean, I don't know any other great option when it comes to that. That's what I would do though. But I would continue to invest that 15%. And do you have any debt? I don't have any debt.

Okay, that's great. Yeah, so our formula, just so you know, Katherine, kind of what we say is match beats Roth beats traditional. So you always want to start with the match of like a 401k. You don't have that. So that means you'll just jump over to the Roth, max out the Roth and then anything else, you'll just go to any type of like kind of

traditional accounts, but there's not really great in the retirement lane for you that I can think of. But again, I would sit down with the SmartVest or Pro and look at all of your options. But if I were you, I mean, even do you have a HSA? No, I don't. Okay. Any health insurance at all of your options, but if I were you, I mean, even, do you have a HSA? No, I don't. Okay.

Any health insurance at all? I do have health insurance, yes. I just don't have the savings account. With it, okay. Yeah, because that's another option. You could put some money and let that grow and cashflow some medical expenses. That would be another avenue.

But yeah. Yeah, that's what I would do if I were you. The combination of those two things the back door Roth and the 15% will get me to the finish line in retirement. Yeah absolutely it should again I want you to run your numbers I don't have a computer right here 42. I'm 42. How long do you think you're gonna make 170 grand? There's lots of money to be made up here so as long as I'm healthy and strong I can do it. And you're single Katherine, did you say? Yes. Okay, perfect. Yeah, if you go to RamseySolutions.com and

just Google Ramsey Solutions Investment Calculator and put that in, put in your numbers. It's actually very encouraging. Compound interest will shock you more. I'll do it for you right now. What's your name right now? I mean, I'm sorry, what's your age right now? 42. 42. 42. All right, let's pretend you worked until 67. How much do you have in investments right now? Nothing. I'm starting at zero right now. Starting at zero. Okay, so what's, Rachel, what is 15%? Yeah, you'll get about 30. About 30 a year you put away? Yeah.

Okay, so if you put away 30,000 and your annual return. Let's just say 10%. Is it there? Put zero at that red. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so I'm doing this for you with the Ramsey investment calculator.

Gosh. If you put yeah, yeah. All right, so I'm doing this for you with the Ramsey Investment Calculator. Good gosh. If you put away, is that right? $30,000 between now and 67 and your annual return is about 10%. It may be, well, I guess 30 would be on 200,000. So put, sorry, put 25 to be conservative. I'll put 20 just for fun. You'll have, if you'll put $20,000 a year and you make 10% return on that from

42. Is that monthly? Oh monthly yeah. I was like oh my gosh we're all gonna be. Yeah you'll have two and a half million dollars. Oh wow okay. Yeah so that's if you put. And that's pretty conservative. That's very conservative. If you put $2,000 a month in retirement, and you put that away, and making 170 with no debt, you can put more than that. And if you feel comfortable doing a little catch up, we're okay with that too. I would be a little bit paranoid being 42 with nothing,

right, so I'd wanna see that quicker. So I might, if I have no bills and no expenses, and I'm 170 plus a house manager, which means some of my meals might get covered. That means some of my bills might get covered. I might take that money and roll it over. But hopefully you hear the main thing here is intentionality with every penny you got. Yeah, for sure.

And Catherine, I would really encourage you to sit down with the SmartVestor Pro. I do this once a year, my husband and I do, to look at retirement, run these numbers. And again, I give them so much credit because I swear every time we go, there's some new thing that they're like teaching me. And they're like, oh yeah, this with this tax thing here, and you can do this with your giving. I mean, they live and breathe this stuff

and they can be so, so helpful and just give you the confidence to know, okay, this is my plan. It doesn't have to be too complicated. It actually, you know, I can kind of set something up and I'm gonna be great. So you're doing great, Catherine. You've done an excellent job up until now.

So that's awesome. If you stay on the line, Catherine, I'll have Christian pick up and just make sure you get that website to our Smart Vestor Pros and interview a couple there in that Seattle area and find one that you trust and that you love and start investing. Excited for you, Kathryn.

This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, I've got a big announcement. George Campbell and I are bringing back Investing Essentials, our two-night virtual event, deep diving into investing and real estate. Learn step by step how to get the most out of your 401k mutual funds and real estate. Learn step by step how to get the most out of your 401k mutual funds and real estate investments because there's no better time to get the clarity you need to invest with confidence. Watch live on March 4th and 5th. Get tickets today at Ramsesolutions.com slash events.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We're taking a call now from our Ramsey Network app, and this question comes from Cassie. All right. Let's hear from Cassie. I was listening to an older episode recently and it sparked a question. The caller was a young man with a family well on the journey to financial freedom. The host congratulated him for doing so well and encouraged him to stay the course and he said he couldn't wait to plan a wonderful vacation in the future. Shouldn't there be some room for fun and joyful living while on the journey?

Seems like most of your callers are so focused on the goal, they forget to have fun. Oh, Cassie, well. That actually, Ramsey in Latin means fun ruiner. We hate fun around here. We don't want you to have any fun. So I think it'd be your definition of fun. I've just become such a huge fan of Arthur Brooks recently. I keep it.

He's just the best. And he talks about like in the latter part of your life, the second half of your life, the people that really do have the most joy is when their wants become smaller and smaller. That it's actually, it's not like, what's my next thing to get? It's actually, oh yeah, I just don't need as much

as I thought I did, like the joy in that. So what I would say, Cassie, is like during a time of sacrifice, of getting out of debt, it's not forever. On average, 18 to 24 months could be longer, right? Three years of your life. Maybe your joy and what you consider fun looks different. In America today, fun is getting a new car, going on a trip, like, you know what I mean?

Like there's a level of fun that I think we all are just like, oh yeah, fun, fun, fun. But what if fun is different? What if fun is having friends over, which we're doing tomorrow night on a Friday night, order some pizzas, game nights, kids watch a movie after adults hang out and you're at a house, you're not paying a hundred plus at a restaurant to take everyone out. You just, you switch things up. So I don't think it's not about- Instead of paying for a big fancy date,

my wife and I when we were like we'd go for long, long hikes. Yeah. And we had hard conversations and we had fun conversations and we laughed a lot. Yeah. And so, yeah, it just looks different. I think Cassie here, underneath this question, what it sounds like is,

hey, it looks like getting out of debt when you go scorched earth is really hard. And the answer to that is yes. And we will all tell you, hey, it looks like getting out of debt when you go scorched earth is really hard. And the answer to that is yes. And we will all tell you, yeah, if you owe a bank, if a bank is running your marriage and a bank is running your life and a car dealership is running your work life

because you have an abusive boss, but you can't quit because you already have that car that you promised that the car company you'd pay back, that I don't care how much like little sparkly vacations you're going on, you're not having fun. Your body is in fight or flight, it's trying to survive. And so yes, for two years, for three years sometimes, Jade's gave seven years, right?

Yeah, right, right. Yes, it is scorched earth. The goal is to get to safety. Then you get to safety, man. Yeah, of course. I don't know. I mean, I don't know that you'll find a group of people that have more fun than we do.

We're pretty off the rails and fun looks different for everybody. I'm in the woods, y'all are going on trips, Jade and I mean, everybody's doing stuff. George is wiping his dog's butt because that's what George does. But like we are all, Dave's in Kabul, like we're all over the place having so much fun.

But our fun's not having us. That's right, that's it. When you have the fun, that's yeah, being all loans, right, and owed by, you know, all these banks and stuff. Yeah, to John, I think that's a great point, John. That's not fun. It's not fun.

And again, I wanna expand our viewpoint of fun. Like I just think we get such in this like rat in a wheel, new purse, new thing, I don't know. Like it's all this stuff that we're like, ooh, that's fun, that's fun. I'm like, is it really though? Is it really? Is it really life-giving?

Cause the life-giving stuff probably isn't gonna cost you a ton. And we know that the research says that no, when you have, there's only so many purses you can have. That's right. Now, except for guitars and really fancy hunting rifles. Yeah, then those bring so much joy. Adding those do bring extra joy to your life.

So much joy. That's just that's science. Just hashtag science. It's in the brain. All right. Let's go to Indianapolis and talk to Sarah with an H. What's up, Sarah? Hey, Sarah.

Yes, hello. How are you guys doing? We're doing all right. How about you? OK, now until 48 hours ago, I felt okay about my situation. Then I started watching your program on YouTube and now I'm kind of freaking out. So I want to like get some feedback here. Okay, hold on. Hold on. Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, will you do me a huge favor? Excuse me?

Do me a huge favor. Take a humongous, deep breath as deep as you can. Okay. Hold it. Okay. Hold it. Okay. Five, four, three, two, let it out. Okay. All right we're on your team. We're on your team. All right what's what's keeping you up at night? Okay now I've been in a difficult marriage since day one and in 2012 I filed for divorce and then to get a peaceful divorce without really any problems I had to like give up me like maybe everything all I got was a car

$10,000 and I had and trust what I had to give up everything else my father helped me and I was able to get a house and Everything moved on. Okay, but under pressure we kind of got back together. We stayed together for like maybe four years or so things were going okay so we decided to get married. Remarried? During that period, excuse me? Remarried? Are you talking about your ex? Or a different guy? No, not a different guy. Okay same guy. So you got remarried? Are you talking about your ex? Or a different guy? No, not a different guy. The same guy. Same guy. So you got remarried.

In what? 2018-2019? Around 2019. And then during that time my husband was paying the bills on his house because he did not sell his house and I was paying all the bills on this house I'm living in. Now when he sold his house, he started paying the bills on this house. Now after they got married, things got worse again,

like, and it's not working out. So I'm going to file for divorce again. And my kids now graduated to have their own lives. So I see it's going to be easier to get a divorce. The same thing here. He says, if you go to court, I'm going to fight you over the house because it's in my name. And I'm going to make everything difficult. So I decided, guess what? Let's just get a divorce. I don't want anything from you. And I'll just keep my stuff. I forgot to say something. When we got back together, our finances stayed separate. Like we're no longer have the same bank account or anything.

We're totally separate. But what house is he going to fight you over? The one that you and your father purchased together? Yes. Why is his name on that home? No, his name is not on the home. Okay. Yeah.

So what's your question? We're coming up against the clock. What's your question? Now, my question is, now my plan was, now I'm gonna keep the house, okay, and I have a hundred thousand dollars in the bank. Okay. So I had it in a CD, but I got some advice from the bank and they said you can invest it in the market and it can get you like money and stuff. So I was wondering whether I will be able to kind of be independent on my own because he's the one who brings most of the money, not me.

Yes, if you get divorced, you have $100,000 and so I won't get into the investment side of it. You have a hundred thousand bucks. If you get divorced, the have $100,000, and so I won't get into the investment side of it, you have $100,000. If you get divorced, the first thing you need to do is to create your own checking account and your own budget. I do. And ask, where is money coming from that I'm going to use to survive, pay my bills? Do you have a job?

Okay. Yes, I'm a teacher. I have a master's degree. I'm a teacher. Amazing, amazing. My wife's a lifelong teacher. Amazing. So what you're going to have to do is to create a world where that, what you make as a teacher funds your life. Pays your house note, whatever your remaining mortgage is, pays your light bill, your electric bill, your food, and any travel you're going to see to go see your grandkids whenever your kids have babies. And the $100,000 should be invested and I want you to get with the Smart Vestor Pro.

If you hang on the line, we'll get you connected there, okay? Should I cut on everything as long as I have a mortgage or can I spend money, for example, go get my hair done, get my hair done? It's going to all depend on you sitting down and doing a budget. Yeah, so Sarah, what I would live off of, I would keep this 100,000, I would take some of it out of the market for an emergency fund.

I would get six months of your, well, four-ish months of your expenses. So you have to do a budget, what John's saying, and you have to say, okay, here's how much food costs, here's how much my mortgage is, here's how much the lights are gonna be, here is everything that I spend money on in the month, this is how much it's gonna take me to live.

And you have to make sure that the salary you make, that your income every month can cover those bills. And ideally that you have margin, and you're not living right up to that paycheck. And so having that margin is gonna be really key. And so that's gonna be step one. And then from there, I would multiply that by four, whatever that number is, take some of that cash from that hundred thousand put it in a

high-yield savings account for a emergency fund and then start thinking about investing above that. Hang on the line here so we'll get you hooked up with a SmartVestor Pro and actually we're gonna pay for you to have one session with one of our financial coaches and they'll walk you through the budgeting part of this. Hang on the line, we'll get you taken care of. Hey, what's up guys? Episode 2 of 90 Day Money Makeover is available right now on YouTube. This series follows real people as they take on the challenge of transforming their finances and their lives in just 90 days.

In this episode, watch as they face new obstacles, celebrate wins, and push forward on their journey. And of course I'll be walking alongside them every step of the way. Okay. Now here's a little sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. Me and Dara back in November, having you son, a baby boy. We'd have $87,000 in debt. I've been in debt since I was like 18 years old. I gave birth to him. I knew. I said, I cannot leave him with someone that I don't know.

I don't care if we're eating rice and beans, Sean, I told him. There was no going back. When you guys called him to the Ramsay show, it was like, I think that there was no going back. When you guys called into the Ramsey show, it was like, I think that we should push them harder. Baby Jonathan being born is a wake-up call for us to finally change. I can't go on another month. Wake-up call.

You know, the next 20 years, it's important. You know, we got to get this right. You want to pay off your debt. You want to get your time back. You want to get your time back. You want to get your home. Nothing usurps those three.