The Ramsey Show - The Solution to Your Problems Is the Person in the Mirror

Episode Date: October 10, 2024

📱Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. Jade Warshaw & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: "Don't pay off your boyfriend's debt," Why debt consolidation isn't a good plan, "What Baby Step am I in?" "My dad is holding a parent plus loan over our heads," "I don't want to put my boyfriend on the house deed when we get married," Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for18% off at The Nokbox 🏛Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🎟️ See Dave and John LIVE in a city near you! 🏠 How to Buy a Home Course Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. Next to me is George Campbell. We've got a rowdy studio audience over there behind the glass. If you don't know, you can actually come here to Ramsey Solutions, watch the show live. A lot of people choose to do that and we're happy that they do.

If you're not here live, you can call in. The number is 888-825-5225 and we'll get you on the line. We've got the incredible Christian over there screening the calls, making sure you're not a psycho, but we don't think that you are. So let's go straight to the phone lines. We've got Lily, who's in New York, New York. What's up, Lily?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. I'm calling because I want to know your guys' opinions on me taking a second consolidation loan out for my boyfriend's credit card debt. Ooh, it's not even for you. It was like three bad decisions wrapped up in one. How did we get here? So I've been with my boyfriend for about two years

and when we met, when we met, he was making good income. I was making good income. He, I guess, didn't really understand credit cards. I'm a credit card person and I know you guys hate that term, but I really am, I've never been in debt. I'm the one person that's able to like reap the benefits, not pay the interest. But my boyfriend has taught me now why people are not credit card people. He didn't really understand, I guess, interest.

And the first time around was about a year ago. I was hoping to move in with him, take the next step, but we wouldn't do that. He was about 20,000 in credit card debt. Okay. And so I had an offer, 0% interest, 15 months, up to 20 grand. I said, I don't need it, I'll take it.

And I gave it to him, it was about 15, I took some for myself and- Wait, you gave him the- He paid most of it off. Hold on, hold on, let me make sure I understand this. You took out the credit card in your name, but gave it to him to use. No, so it was a credit card loan.

He had his own credit card, but I took out a consolidation loan for him because I was given an offer to me to just take out X amount of money I need. But it's in your name. Yes, and it's mostly paid off, actually. OK, so help me explain where we're at now, because my thought is like, if you took out one and it didn't work, why are we taking out another one? And why isn't he doing this?

Did he pay this off or almost pay it off or is this you? The loan, he almost paid it off. It's about like 90% paid off. The reason why I work here again is because he continued to use credit cards and I maybe that can be my influence now. Because we didn't change any of the habits. You bailed him out, like a government bailout. And then he went, oh, more please.

Listen, this is a red flag. It bothers me. There's a couple of things that bother me about this. A, that you're on the line and he's not. listen, this is a red flag. It bothers me. There's a couple of things that bother me about this. A, that you're on the line and he's not. That's the raging thing right in front of us. The risk is all on you. And then you're the one taking out,

yeah, to George's point, you're the one taking out the loans. Even though he's paying it, the loan is in your name and you're saying, hey, you can do it like this. Yeah, it feels like you're kind of in charge and you're trying to mold him into who you want him to be financially. And he's like, all right, you want me to do this?

OK, I'll do it a little bit. And does do you see that? Yeah, I definitely do. And that's something I, you know, plant what I think that's probably what happened the first time at this point, you know, 30,000 in immediate debt, if not more. Oh, so we went from 20 paid it almost off and now we're at 30. Yeah. Okay.

And once he's spending it on, does he not have a job? What's going on? No. So she takes home about, uh, he makes 80 before taxes. So his take home pays about 43 a month. And I, we did the math, we did the numbers. We just moved in together and I didn't know he was back in debt until we after we moved in together. So I would have not have done that.

What type of work does he do? And what type of work do you do? Because you guys are living in New York City. I want to see if you're living in New York City, it better be like suits like you got to have a reason to be there. Right? Right. So we were both born here and raised. He is a junior project manager in the city. And he makes pretty good. And then I am, I do have a couple of jobs.

I'm a teacher's assistant and then I'm a bartender and I have a lot of side jobs. I take home about 4,500 a month after taxes and everything. And like I said, his take home after taxes about $43 a month. Okay. So here's, here's the, the short end of the conversation and then we can go back and trace back how we got there. You guys are living together. That's your choice. You're living in New York city, which feels too big for your britches for the jobs that you're doing, but that's also your choice.

Going forward, what I would not do in your shoes or in his shoes is I would not combine my money with this person. That's A1. And I would not put my neck on the line to get them out of debt because there's not a true, true commitment there. And there's certainly no legality there to protect either of you. And so I would keep this, I would not, if you're gonna choose to live together that's your choice, I might say something different and I would say

something different I'd ask, well why don't you just get married? But if you're not gonna get married at the very least keep your money separate because he's getting himself into this mess and he has a habit of spending more than he makes. He spends all that he gets and then some and he's not really interested in doing anything about it. George, she seems like to be the only person who's interested in getting him out of that, which again is a red flag. Yeah, you care more about it than he does,

and at this point it's enabling. Would you agree? Yeah, I mean, I would agree, which is why I came to my breaking point recently. And put that down. Well, and it sounds like you've made an ultimatum, like, hey, we're not gonna move this relationship forward unless you get out of debt.

Yes, I knew for a fact. But then you moved in with him. Right, so you took back your words. It was after. I found out after. Yeah. Got it. So it was, there's another part of this, which is like, I found out.

So it was kind of a secret that he was going back into debt. Am I hearing that right? Breaks the trust in the relationship. He wasn't taking it seriously. Yeah, no, it was, that was bad. I agree. And he acknowledges that that was not okay. Yeah. Do you have any debt? Sort of pushing it on. No, I don't. I have maybe 10,000 student loans, but that's not a clear interest. And I've been- Okay, so trick question. Number one, you do because you took out the credit card loan in your name,

plus you still have the student loans. So you've got your own financial goals and we're trying to babysit this guy into doing the right things financially. So I feel like we gotta get our ducks in a row and you go, dude, you live your life, we're not gonna combine finances. You wanna take this seriously, let me know. At this point, this relationship is at a standstill.

Yeah, Lilly, we have a studio audience here and they're listening and I kinda wanna know cause based on what you're telling me, if you were my best girlfriend, I'd be like, man, it might be time to kick this guy to the curb. And I wanna know what they think by a show of thumbs up or thumbs down. They did the gladiator thumbs up.

There's a lot of thumbs up over here, Lily, because we are seeing a woman who's trying to move forward. We're seeing a woman who understands what she needs to do in life. And it's almost like you're being more of a mom to him than a lady friend. You know what I'm saying? Like you're taking care of him,

you're helping him to do, and don't get me wrong, there is a, there is part of a relationship where you are helping each other and you're teaching each other, but this feels a little bit more extreme. You're going in opposite directions. And so that's what worries me.

So I would have a real hard conversation and I would always, I would also go, I'm never letting anyone loan, I'm never loaning money to anyone ever again. No, no. At the very least, I would not be living with this guy at the very least because that for you, that's your leverage to say,

hey, I have goals and there's some things I wanna do and I'd love for us to be on the same track and going in the same direction with our money. I'd love one day for us to be able to combine our lives and get married, but you're not doing your side of it. And I can't move in with you right now. Yeah. You're one step away from paying this guy's bills because he goes, Oh man, can you front my rent? I'll Venmo you next month. I promise. Yeah. Don't like that. Yeah. Don't don't give away your leverage. Um, yeah. I want to, what's that? That they say, George,

uh, no one's going to buy the cow if they can get the milk for free. Oh, yeah, there it is. I just turned into my grandmother. This is the Ramsey Show. Are you working the baby steps? One of the smartest and most impactful changes you can make is to ditch your cash value life insurance plan, if you have one, and replace it with a term life policy. Listen, the only thing a cash value policy is good for is overcharging you for the life insurance

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You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Next to me is George Campbell. I'm Jade Warshaw. We're the ones taking your calls today. So if you call in, this is who you get. The number is triple 8, 825-5225. George, you ready to get into it? I hope so. Let's do it. We got Lee from Newark, New Jersey. What's going on, Lee? Yeah, hi. I listen to you guys all

the time. I really love your show. And I wanted to call because my husband and I have some credit card debt. And we're debating about whether we want to transfer the balances of those credit cards to different credit cards for a 0% interest while we pay it down. How much is the credit card debt? We have one card that has about $20,000 on it and the other one has $12,000. And what's the current interest rate? Probably between both of them, somewhere between 27 and 29.

Aye, aye, aye. Added pain and regret. That's what APR stands for. George, what do you think? So here's the deal. These are not inherently evil, these 0% balance transfers, but you gotta know what you're getting into, and you gotta know that it's not actually

doing as much as you think. Most people do these transfers and think they've actually done something to get out of debt, but if you're already crazy gazelle intense, you've sold so much stuff, you're working extra, and you do this as one little move while keeping intensity, then it can be okay.

But you're gonna pay anywhere from three to 5% to make this transfer happen. So it's not free, it's pay, you know, anywhere from three to 5% to make this transfer happen. So it's not free, it's gonna cost you something, and it does not actually speed up your debt payoff if you're not already intense. So what makes you think you're gonna pay off this 32 grand before the 0% is over? Or is this gonna be a 0% card or what?

Yeah, I would like to have both of them be a 0% card for anywhere from 18 to 21 months. We already are paying probably close. I've already paid off my car. We're getting ready to pay off another smaller debt next week. My husband got a pretty good pay raise. Okay, good. Um, so we're hoping that we can pay about a thousand a week. Wow. Good. These credit cards, but getting them down to zero percent. Um, while we're doing that, we have two kids,

we're still trying to maintain life, things like that. But, um, we are getting very serious about paying off debt because we'd like to start saving more for our kids college and For retirement, so what's your total debt? And what is your household income? So The credit cards are about 32,000 Our furniture is about 3800. We do have a smaller annuity that my husband pays quarterly. That's about $6,500. And our mortgage is about $534. Okay. So let's ignore the mortgage for now. That'll be a baby step six item later on.

So you're looking at about, we'll call it $40,000 in debt. Right. I do have an $18,000 student loan, but it's eligible for forgiveness as soon as, you know, that goes through. When? What do you mean as it goes through? So, yeah, I- Like you've already,

you've paid the right amount of payments? Is this the PSLF? Yeah, I'm on public, yes, it's public service loan forgiveness. I've already had a $200,000 loan Forgiven good. Okay, and this is the remaining 18,000 which was a separate direct loan and that is I've been Actively calling to see when it's gonna be forgiven. Unfortunately, I haven't been given a time

That's the one that's gonna happen. But you've done your side Yes. Yes. I have enough payments to be forgiven. And what's your household income? My personal growth income before taxes, I worked two jobs, is about 190,000. Wow. And my husband with his with his thank you, with

his new job venture, it's a little bit on the wax and wane side. It's when he gets work, he gets paid well, when he doesn't we kind of have to like pinch our pennies. What's a good month? And what's a bad month? A good month is 5000 a,000 a week before taxes. Okay. And a bad week is $2,000. A bad month is probably somewhere around $8,000.

Okay, so, okay, well that's not bad. He's feasting family. But you guys are making hundreds of thousands of dollars. So this debt should be paid off in a few months. Yeah, the consolidation at that point is truly negligible because this would be gone in under a year. What's keeping that from happening? Because to be making over 200,000,

well over 200,000, and having $40,000 of debt, help me understand because I'm thinking, okay, why aren't you just living? I mean, I know New Jersey is an expensive area but is there something I'm missing here I'm just trying to get I'm really at a point I'm 39 years old my husband's 41 we haven't done the best in saving throughout the years unfortunately I've been with my husband for 17 years you I mean- Well, that doesn't really answer my question

because you almost make 300,000. But do you see our point here? The balance transfer doesn't change any habits and that's what worries me here. A couple making $300,000 shouldn't be needing to go to debt for furniture. They shouldn't be needing to swipe the credit card. And so that's what I'm trying to figure out

is what got us here and how are we stopping that part before we ever agree to this balance transfer. I have a feeling it's a budget thing. Can you tell us about that? It is. Okay. It is. Our budget is not exactly where I would like it to be and we're starting to get a little

stricter with how we spend our money. Are you using every dollar? I have not yet. Okay. We're going to, that's the key. We're gonna give you every dollar, because something tells me you guys are kind of a set it and forget it, I made a budget three months ago,

kind of, you know. It's in my head, we looked at our bank account. Yeah. We should spend this much, and that's where every dollar is gonna really help. Is, are George and I right? It's a budget issue for us. Yes, I agree.

So we'll give you Christian before we get off the line. Christian will pick up. We'll give you every dollar and it's a budget that you make every single month. And the good thing about every dollar is it's kind of has this kind of copy paste feature where at the end of the month you copy it. And then for the next month, you just go through it and make whatever tweaks and changes you need for that month. But what George and I want for you to do is understand that every month is different. You have different goals, different things pop up. And so the budget needs to change to reflect that. And here's the thing, you make $300,000 a year

a little bit more. You don't have a ton of debt in ratio to that, but I think you're kind of in this, what we would call messy middle, where your income is good and so your debt, it's not like, it know, it's not. Nothing's on fire. It's nothing's on fire, right?

It's not the serial killer at the door. It's just like, all right, this is moderately uncomfortable. And so I think. There's just a creeper out the window, but he's down the street. Yeah. That's kinda how it is. It's like, yeah, your debt's a peeping Tom.

It's, it's. Not the analogy Jade wanted to make, but I forced her to do it. Okay, but do you see what we're saying here? Yes, absolutely. I want you to act like it's on fire because that's the only way you're gonna get out of this thing in three months.

Cause I think you guys are incredible. You work really hard and you make too much to be this broke. Would you agree? Yeah, I live on 250. I agree, I agree. I am actively working to try to revamp our spending and our budget. Is he on board with that?

It's expensive, so we're working on that, but... Is he like an anchor that's going to drag this down or is he on board and he's going, I'm willing to do whatever it takes? No, he is resolved to letting me kind of like handle the financial part of this and whatever it is I need him to do, he's willing to do. But he needs to be a part of this budget making because unless he sees it and he goes, oh my gosh, Lee, this is insane.

We make so much money. Where is it going? He's not gonna be willing to make the right sacrifices. And if it just becomes a, well, you do this, I do this, it's just gonna become another to-do list for him. And I want him to really feel this. Yeah, I agree. I agree.

So we need to give you every dollar. We probably also need to give you financial peace university for you and your husband to go through together so that you can be on the same page and he can see that he's really an intricate part of this equation, just as important as you are. And you might be the, don't get me wrong. Usually there's one spouse that kind of

takes a slight lead, right, George? You're probably the one who's gonna be kind of plugging the numbers. There's a pilot and co-pilot. Yeah, pilot and co-pilot, I like that. But they both have to be in the cockpit paying attention. That's right. And not a passenger on the plane.

That's right, not a passenger. Oh, I agree. Very good analogies, George, I feel like. I had to redeem it after the peeping Tom one. Like I owed you that. You took me there. But the point is, a lot of you listening are probably still in that messy middle.

Your income is good, and the debt is just at that point where it's not ruining your life yet. And you're still able to go to Applebee's every Friday. You're still able to, you know, buy the new sneakers you want. But it's kind of that creeper in the corner and you see it and now is the time to deal with it. Don't wait till it gets worse. We can help you today. This is The Ramsey Show. you today. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know which ones I mean, but I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations

that focus on their members and I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fairwinds has been in business for over 75 years and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. You can feel secure because your deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to $250,000. It's easy to join and Fairwinds partners with more than 5,000 credit union locations around the country so you can bank in person wherever you live. But if

you prefer the online experience you can log on to fairwinds and do anything you could do at a physical location so go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more and while you're there look at the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances That's fair winds fa I are w in DS org slash Ramsey All right, you're listening to the Ramsey show we're here on the Ramsey Network, it's myself and George Campbell today Hey that last call we just took was all about the budget.

You know, it was a couple or family. They're making three hundred thousand dollars, George, great money, but still feeling the weight of living paycheck to paycheck, seemingly not able to pay off forty thousand dollars of debt. And when I look at that, I mean, it's the budget every time. It's not being intentional. It's really not having a budget. You know, a lot of people think it's,

I said it and forget it. We made it at the beginning of the year. Well, we have to define what a budget is. Cause a lot of people think, well, Jade, I look at my credit card transactions. That's like doing a budget. No, they're way off. I looked at my bank account, there was money left.

I did a budget. No, it's not something in your head. It's not your bank account. It's not a credit card statement. It's an actual budget, like a budgeting app, like every dollar. That's right. And so the way we teach George is we want people in there

every single month. You're starting with your income, all of the income that comes into your household and there's an area for you to put income in. And then you go through and you're methodically thinking about every area throughout the month that you could spend money. And it's divided into categories. So, you know, it's like your lifestyle stuff, it's your utilities and home

and your transportation and you can customize it. But essentially you're giving a assignment to every single dollar and you're knowing on purpose. This is what I'm spending on. Even the extra money you're giving an assignment to. Right. And that could be paying off debt. That could be going towards savings. I could be just, you know, miscellaneous, it could be a cushion, it could be, you know, grandma's birthday, whatever you decide, that's what every dollar's for. And so you're really making the most of your money.

And the way you do that is by creating a budget, guys. Every dollar makes it so simple. They make it easy to plan spending, you can track expenses, you save for what matters most to you. And like George said, it's all in this easy app that is on your desktop computer or it fits in your pocket. So you can take it with you to the grocery store and your spouse, if you have one,

has the exact same budget on their phone with the same login, it makes it that easy. So if you don't have it, download it every dollar for free. You can do that in the app store or you can do it on Google Play or you can just click the link in the description if you're listening to this right now on YouTube or podcast.

But the crux of this is, we have found that people who manage their money well and people who have success with their money, they do it because they're on a budget. So there's a direct correlation there. Get a budget. All right, George, let's get back to the phone lines. We got Vincent, he's in Fort Lauderdale, Florida,

my neck of the woods. What's going on, Vincent? Hello, hello, good morning, good afternoon. Good afternoon, what's the weather like? Oh, you know, we didn't really get any issues over here from the storm, praise be to the Lord. I heard it's sunny. I heard it's pretty sunny, yeah.

Good for you. Sunny, warm and beautiful. Love to hear. I just wanna say thank you for you guys taking the time to take my call. And I was actually watching George this morning on a video with Tom from Impact something. Yeah, Tom Bilyeu, Impact Theory.

Had a fun interview with him on my YouTube channel. Thanks for watching. Yeah, it was really good. Yeah, so my situation is a little different than average American. I'm a 39 year old, a hundred percent disabled veteran, single, no children. And so I have four times the expenses in the emergency fund. I don't have any debt, great credit, currently renting.

And so I'm not sure if like I'm in, you know, or like how vital step number four is because, you know, I have guaranteed tax free income until I die, you know, which adjusts for the inflation right now It's a thirty seven thirty seven. So there's seven hundred dollars a month And of course it adjusts inflation like, you know, like ten years ago or you like thirteen years ago is like twenty seven hundred So it's one of like a grand in thirteen years. Do you know what the rate is yearly? Is it 4%, like what, how does it go? That's the federal government. They make their own decisions,

like supposedly it's gonna go up like 2.5% so that that'll be like another $100. You just kind of follow the CPI inflation rates and all that? I guess, I'm not really sure to be honest with you. I just know it does make changes. And so I'm thinking like possibly I'm not really sure to be honest with you. I just know it does make changes. And so I'm thinking like possibly I'm in step seven. And so I'm like, I'm really seeking advice and counsel

for potential options and like paths to follow. I'm considering buying a home. And like if I subtract my emergency fund, then that leaves me like 43,000 that I have in the bank. I don't have any investments, everything is just savings. But my ultimate goal is to live in the Caribbean. So three thousand that have in the bank. I don't have any investments. Everything is just savings But my ultimate goal is to live in the Caribbean. So I'm Violence I got my eye on some but like, you know I'm not sure if like maybe buy property here start here then go there or start here I probably start here and go there

So you've never been a homeowner before and so I'd probably want to learn that and get kind of your sea legs, for lack of a better term, under home ownership before you go abroad. But I love that. I think home purchase is a good thing for you. We say all the time here that, you know, your rent, it's the biggest line item on most people's budget and it's variable as long as you're a renter. And so being able to kind of stabilize that line item and have a mortgage and one day pay it off and your situation is huge. I do have a question and I mean, you're welcome to say, no, I don't want to talk about that or whatever. But if you're 100, you're 100% disabled. Do you feel that there's any work that you'd want to do and could do?

Oh, certainly. So, you know, each person is different, it's kind of like a different situation than the social security disability. Like with a veteran it could be a variety of spectrums but yeah like you know I am limited, I had situations that I'm dealing with. However my ultimate goal is to continue doing something. Like I you know I'm with Dave, like I think you would agree like I don't plan to stop working until like I die and then you know be Jesus. You know what I mean? So I want to be doing something gainful with my time. I think you would agree, like I don't plan to stop working until like I die and then you know, be Jesus, you know what I'm saying? And so I want to be doing something gainful with my time. I think it's, you know, good for your mind and good for community. And so I'm not sure what that's going to look like.

I looked at maybe like teaching English or even like I went and visited an island and they pitched me being a tour guide because I can speak to English, English tours. So I'm kind of like putting the, excuse me, to the field is out there. I'm just really in this situation, like I don't know what to do as far as like financially and just want to see like what options you guys might suggest to me

and just so I can kind of like have stuff to consider. I don't want you to take your foot off the gas. I would continue following the baby steps and that means investing 15% of your income. You need to look into what you can do with that income. If you need different earned income from working outside of your disability payments in order to invest in a Roth IRA for example.

But I would put you in this baby steps four through six. And baby step seven is really, hey, I've got a paid for house. I don't have payments in the world. I'm not trying to save up for a house. You've sort of already overcome that. So that would put you in this kind of long-term journey of investing 15%, probably saving up for a house. You've sort of already overcome that. So that would put you in this kind of long-term journey of investing 15%, probably saving up for a house as well.

You're maybe going to end up paying off that home. And that's only gonna set you up for success later on down the road when you wanna buy something in the Caribbean and you're on a fixed income. And to George's point, I like continuing to work the baby steps. And when you are ready to buy a house, just remember your emergency fund isn't your down payment. So right now

you said you've got four months of expenses. So, you know, for all intents and purposes, that is your emergency fund. So if you're ready to, if you are wanting to buy a property, you need to save up a separate down payment because I don't want you depleting that in order to make your home purchase. Yeah. Good. Yeah. I'm on the same page. I, you know, like Dave says, um, and you guys have said too, like, you know, stuff will happen to hot water heater will go air conditioning or something. So I'm definitely, I'm bored with that. And like, I like that I've been listening and, you know, I didn't hear before about like doing, um, like you've recommended not using the VA loan if you can do it because, you know because there's more fees and stuff.

And if you can put 20% down and do a 15 year mortgage, I'm like, wow, that's a really good idea. That's right. It's just a better loan product in general. Now there are some times, you can waive the funding fee because you have the 100% disability. It's not that it's a bad product, just what tends to happen is people who have no money,

they put zero down and they can end up underwater on their home or they buy too much home because they have zero equity in this thing. So it's all mortgage. And so that's the part that's worrisome. But if you go to it and that's the right product for you and you can talk to our friends at Churchill Mortgage and they'll walk you through,

here's the AB of a 15 year versus the VA loan and what makes sense for you. But thank you for your service. And what a sacrifice. I can't imagine what would necessitate 100% disability. So, God bless our veterans. A lot of sacrifice, thank you so much. Yeah, George, you're right.

And speaking of Churchill, I was talking with them the other day, and because of the Fed lowering interest rates, even though home interest rates aren't really being affected by that just yet, a lot of people are still looking at refinancing, and is it time, and is it this? And talking to the guys over at Churchill, they're like, the time is to make a plan. So it's always

good to call up Churchill and start talking with someone and say, here's, here's where I'm at. And here's what my goals are. And they can help you walk through that process and figure out, okay, what does it make sense for you to do? If your, if your goal is to refinance, if your goal is to buy a house, it's like, it's never too early to call them up, make a plan to get prepared because they're all about relationships. They want to build a relationship with you. They want to get to know you. They want to get to know all the factors that are surrounding your home owning or home selling or whatever refinance even if it's a year or three away. That's right. At least you know what to do in the meantime. Exactly. And it gives you time to

actually start working a plan towards that. So contact our friends at Churchill. This is the Ramsey show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all.

But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified

business management suite, there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Alrighty, you're listening to the Ramsey Show. We're here on the Ramsey Network. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is bestselling author, George Campbell, author of the book Breaking

Free from Broke. If you haven't gotten a copy, make sure you do because it's Liddy. All right, let's go to the phone lines. We've got Jacqueline in Austin, Texas. What's going on, Jacqueline? Hey, thank y'all for taking my call. You bet. How can we help? We are on Baby Step number two

and we're working to pay $105,000 in debt. Okay. And we have 23,000 of that enrolled in a debt relief program. Okay. And there's been a settlement reached with one of the creditors, of course, after they rightfully so threatened to sue. Yeah. And then the other one is still being negotiated. So my question is, with all the other debt that we have, is it wise to try to get out from underneath this program? I mean, what made you go into it to begin with? It's kind of odd to me that you had 102,000,

but you kind of chose the subset to turn over to them. Can you tell me more about what caused you to do that? It was out of desperation in the time for just because the interest rates were so high and I just was not very wise about the decision at all. Were they already late? Like were you already behind on them? Yes.

Okay. Let me summarize what happened and you tell me if it's correct. So you reach out to the company and they tell you, hey, stop making payments on all of your debt, let it out to the company and they tell you, hey, stop making payments on all of your debt, let it go to collections, let them sue you. Instead, you make those payments to us and then we'll help settle with the creditors for a lower amount. That's pretty much how it's happening. I didn't know about the suing part.

Yeah. They tend to leave that part out in the pitch and the brochure. Hey, we're going to implode your financial life, tank your credit, have people coming after you to sue you, but it's gonna be awesome. And we're gonna help. And they don't actually help you learn how to manage your money. So they're just middlemen that are unnecessary.

And for those reasons, I would get out of this agreement because I think you are way more in control than you think. And I wouldn't let it to a middleman to implode your financial life to help. What's it gonna take to get out of it? And what have you paid to them so far? Quite a bit. They've already made a settlement

and I'm about 2,500 in on those payments. I have about 1,500 in a savings account with them because that's, you know, you make the payments, they put it in this account, and then that's what they use to make payments back to the creditors. And I can take that out. I mean, they said I can get out at any time.

I am just not aware of any hidden fees that they may have because- Yeah, that's what we need to find out. I didn't save any money at all. I didn't save any money at all. Yeah, you'll need to ask them about that. But I'm hoping you can get out without much penalty and fee

and move on and do this yourself using the debt snowball method with gazelle intensity, using the baby steps. That's the way people actually get out of debt. And so that's your homework. Your homework is to go and figure out what's it gonna take to get out of this. You said you've paid 2,500 in,

which on $23,000 of debt isn't much. It sounds like you're still in the beginning process of this. You said they made a settlement. Did they tell you how much the settlement was for? Is it for the lump sum or just an individual one in there? It's for the lump sum, but it's, it saved me maybe $3,000. That's nothing.

Not very much, but then with all their fees, I ended up not saving any money at all. Exactly. So it makes you feel like, well, this still saved me money and hassle, but listen, you can negotiate this stuff yourself. If you've got debt and collections, you can call them. You can say, hey, I want to settle.

I have two grand. Will you settle on the six? Call it paid in full. And so if you do have debt and collections, you can do this yourself. The rest of the debts, stay current and attack them with a vengeance using the debt snowball method.

Okay, yep, that's what we're working on. All right. Hopefully. I just didn't want to do any more of this with this. Yeah, I wouldn't go down this road any further. You turn. Thanks for the call. Yeah, George, we never recommend debt relief programs, debt consolidation. They're charging you to do what you can do for yourself. Well, they market to you like Ramsey would. They're like, we're gonna give you financial freedom and we're gonna help you get out of debt, except we know the solution is the person in the mirror,

not some middleman who's gonna take your payments while imploding your financial life. That's what they do. Yeah, don't make payments, let it go to collections, because then when it's in collections, now we have the ability to settle. Yeah, and trust me, I do not care about a credit score, but I don't want you to tank your credit score.

On purpose. That will hurt you financially to have a bad score. That's right. Yeah, we would never tell you to do that on purpose. All right, let's go to Ray in Columbus, Ohio. What's going on, Ray? Hi. Hey, what's up?

So my question is, is how do I begin to tear down this debt that I have with the low income that I make? Okay. So tell us what your debt is and tell us what your income is. Okay. So total debt is about $30,000 and monthly I bring home after taxes $1,200. Ooh, what are you doing for work? I work at a gym and I'm only part-time currently. And basically speaking to my boss,

he told me he doesn't have the hours to allow me to work full time. Okay, so why don't you go ahead, George. I'm just wondering, are you getting paid hourly? Yes. And what are you making hourly? 16. So could you not find a job that's full-time paying 16 or 17 or 18 or 20 or 25?

Unfortunately, jobs are not really hiring. You know, I've put in tons and tons of applications for lots of places and this will be the only one that I heard back from. Like, Ray, we're heading into the biggest shopping season of the year. You're telling me no retailers are hiring? Yeah. You checked them all. Wait a minute.

You checked them all, every single one. You went to every retailer in your city. No, no, no, not all of them. Not all of them. Well, you're telling me there's no jobs. You just said there's no jobs. I'm currently looking. You're looking, okay.

I'm currently looking for another job. We're pushing on you, Ray. But right now, as far as the applications I put in, I'm not here. I just think Ray's worth more than 1200 bucks a month. Would you agree? I agree, yes. What is the most you have made?

Tell us, when you were doing, if you had a moment where you're like, yeah, I was doing well. My previous job? Yeah, my previous job, actually, I ended up getting laid off because they just were having major budget issues and I was making about 50k when I was working.

Okay, so this is part time. What is your skill set here? I'm sorry? What's the skill set? What's your background? It was manufacturing. It was at a factory. Do you have education in that field?

Or did you just kind of fall into it? I just fell into the job and started working there. Okay. Is it just you or do you have a family? Is there a spouse, anything like that? I do. I do have a son. Okay.

And then my boyfriend and I do live together. Okay. So you know that kind of stuff. What does childcare look like? Childcare I do get like assistance for that, but I do pay a little bit monthly for that. How much do you pay monthly, can I ask? Only 108. Okay, so you've got that, we wanted to know that

because we wanna know, are you freed up to be able to work full time? And it sounds like you are. Okay, at this point, you gotta just get like, pound that pavement. That's the only solution to this is income. I wish that there was a magic button, but there's just not. And your situation income is your only thing that's going to break you free.

Luckily, 30,000, you know, you can tackle that, but you got to be making it. Let's get back to the 50,000. Let's let that be kind of a goal point for us. But the reason that George and I were really pressing you on the income is because we know like, you can go to Walmart, you can go to Wendy's, there's places that are paying 18 an hour and it's not, there are places

that aren't hard to break through. And so I think at this point, you've got to raise your, really raise what you're calling a lot. I've applied to a lot of places. If in your mind, a lot was eight, well now a lot is gonna be 30, right? And you're gonna talk to people that you know and say,

hey, I'm looking for a job. Are they hiring anybody where you're working? Do you know of anywhere that's hiring? So before you get off the line, we're gonna give you Ken's book, Proximity Principle, because we want you to be having the tools to really get out there. We're gonna give you the, find the work you're wired to do,

get clear career assessment so you can figure out what you wanna do going forward. Because I think you're at a crossroads. Yeah. And I think you're really, how old are you? I do 23. Yeah. Have you decided I'm not gonna borrow any more money?

Because it sounds like right now you're going into debt just to exist, just to survive. Well, so the debt is, it's like 17,000 from a car accident. Two of them are credit cards, but they're within 800, so one is 500 and then one is 800. And then more debt, it was like 8,500 was from a car that I had to repossess after I lost my job. And then 3,200 in student loans that I had from that.

Exactly, so. I think the lesson learned is no more debt. No more. Because it works out as long as life's working out and then life hits you and you go, oh boy, this isn't fun. Yeah, and the problem is being in this situation has the ability to really impede the decisions that you make and I don't want that for you. So keep hitting the pavement. You will find a job. It's just

a matter of time. We believe in you. We believe you've got it. Stay in touch with us and see if there's anything we can do to help. This is The Ramsey Show. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed? Well, that's why we created the Ramsey Network app, your single source for content that keeps you motivated. The Ramsey Network app is designed to keep you laser focused on reaching your goals. Loaded with over $7,000 of Ramsey shows, this free app is the best place for uninterrupted content

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for the day is next to me, George Camel. We'll be taking calls about your life and your money. You can get your call up on the line by calling 888-825-5225. We'll screen you and try to get you in. But yeah, as long as you're calling to talk about your life and your money, you could even throw in a career question. You know, we'll help you out with that. Ken's usually the career guy, but you know, he talks to us during our lunch break and so we have some information we can share. We've absorbed a lot of wisdom from our friend Ken. His desk is right next to mine. All right, let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Emma

in Colorado Springs, Colorado. What's going on Emma? Hi Emma, I'm sorry. That's all right. Thank you so much for taking my call. So my question has to do with my dad wanting my husband and I to take a $60,000 loan that's a Parent Plus loan he took when I went to college. And at the time, I never made a plan with him to pay it back. He never said, you know, at this date, you're going to become responsible for this or anything like that. Um, I've been married three years now and we have wanted to help my dad.

Um, cause obviously it was a helped me a lot. Um, but I'm really, really regretting that now. Um, and I think like he never said anything when we got married or anything like that, and I think he's just, he's had a lot of conflicts with my husband, and it's the way I see it, it's like he's just frustrated with us, and now, now. Oh, so you think this is for spite?

I do, yes. Oh, how you think this is for spite? I do, yes. Oh, how much can you tell us about the context of this resentment? Was it because of financial choices? No, so- Or is he using this as leverage? I believe he's using it as leverage. I think if I were to say, like, oh yeah, sorry, my husband is this, this, and this, just like you say,

then maybe he would be like, okay, just because for the past 12 years, he's been paying on this loan and has not ever mentioned it. So what does he not like about your husband? Where's the beef? Oh my, so I think in retrospect, so in the past, I was really close with my dad and now

I'm just processing all of these things that happened. I wonder if he has been maybe kind of a mesh with me. Like in high school he would tell me a lot of details about his own financial situation that I don't even know if he told my mom about. When he got the loan, when he got the Parent Plus loan, he told me to not tell my older siblings about it. And I'm the youngest of six kids. So what does this have to do with your husband? Yeah, you mentioned, you made it seem like it was kind of a...

Yes, yeah, so he thinks that he's been a very bad influence on me. I think that has to do with me. What does that mean? How old are you, Emma? Did you get your ears pierced? What did you do? Did you get a tattoo? What happened?

It's been so ridiculous, you guys. So you're still daddy's little girl and he's like, I don't like what this guy's done to my daughter and I don't agree with this. I don't like that. Butterfly kisses to my daughter and I don't agree with this. I don't like, he votes wrong. It's everything. And I think he's never let me go. I think he doesn't like that I've become a bit more

assertive, which I feel like my husband has helped me really grow. I mean, you're married, girl. You left. I'm not married. You're married. Have you had a conversation with your dad yet to say, dad, I love you.

I'll always be your little girl, but I'm also a grown woman and I'm married to this guy and we're doing our own thing. And it feels like you're using this and dangling it over our head to go, all right, you little grownups, here's your $60,000 loan back. Is that a good summary? I feel like that's a very good summary, unfortunately.

And you're the youngest of six, did you say that? Yes. Okay, Papa is struggling. That's what it sounds like. It sounds like he is trying to hold onto a last little thread of what life was. At least that's the way it sounds. Is he doing okay financially?

Because it sounds like he doesn't have the ability to even pay back this loan. Otherwise he would have done it. No, I know. So that's why it's so complicated. I have wanted to help with the loan. Never take it on myself, but I've wanted to help because

honestly he's made some poor decisions. He's a teacher. So he told me recently that when my sister and I were in school, he deferred some of his own debt to keep us in private school and paper music lessons and stuff like that. So I feel like he has in his mind, he's done the very best he can, which I'm sure he did in many ways, but I think you're reading too much into it. I got to cut you. I think I think you have to look at this pragmatically and look at it for what it is.

I gotta cut you, I think you have to look at this pragmatically and look at it for what it is. Otherwise, you're gonna keep circling a drain. Because the truth is, yes, our parents do sacrifice for us, and they're supposed to, and they do, you know, cut things off for them so they can do it for you. Like that, they're supposed to do that, and when they do it, we're grateful. And I don't think any, you don't have to replay that

to prove that you're grateful to him, because we know that you are. But if we look at this, like, let's just pretend that George and I are kind of the judge here. I think Parent PLUS loans are really tough because here's what we're really deciding between. The money was used for you and it was for your education. You got your education.

And then you kind of, did you ask for the loan? I don't know. Did you? No, I remember he really he really wanted me to go to this college and I did want to go but I remember saying like are you sure this is a lot of money? But if you didn't pay for it what would have happened? You just wouldn't have gone or what was the? I would have gone to a different school for much cheaper or little to nothing. And you would have paid for it in cash or there still would have been a smaller loan? So no, actually this is the kicker. He actually teaches at a college and I could have gone there for free but he wanted me

to go. Oh my goodness. Okay. I know it's so bad. Sad. Isn't that like the one reason to work at the college your kids can go for free? Right. Oh my goodness. He really wanted me to go to work at the college your kids can go for free? Right. Oh my goodness.

He really wanted me to go to this Christian private college. Okay, so now we have, but now we have the facts because I don't want to run out of time. The fact is he took out this loan. He wanted you to go to this school. You were willing to go someplace for free and let's add the legality to it. The loan is in his name.

So if you came in front of Judge Jade. You have no legal or moral obligation to pay this back. But if it's gonna weigh on you and you have the financial means, then help pay it down. It's that simple and have the conversation. You didn't have the conversation before. So the next best thing you can do is have one now. And you go, all right, here, can we come up with a game plan?

I don't want this to hurt our relationship. I know you disagree with my husband, neither here nor there. Let's make a plan to get rid of this debt. And if I were you, I'd try to settle for half and half. I'd be like, let's go halfsies on this. You played a part in it. I took it.

I took the gift. I took the loan. So I played a part in it as well. And so that's what I would do. And if you do make this, try to, I say this, but this is family stuff and I hate business between family, but try to get it in some sort of writing of, hey, this is what we both agree, let's sign it.

And so that we can always say, hey, we said this, here's what we said, I'll pay 30, you'll pay 30. What's the balance now? Is it still 60? So it's 60, I'm guessing it was closer to 72 when he first took it. Okay, well let's talk about it at this point and say it's 60 now, you pay 30, I'll pay 30, and no hard feelings. And from now on, none of us co-sign for each other. And you know, maybe you write him a letter and say all the wonderful things that you were going to say on the air about how he sacrificed. And you know, that's that on that. gonna say on the air about how he sacrificed and you know that's that on that. But if the wedge has already been driven then this debt is not gonna change much of that. No. It sounds like he's got other beef and this is just one part of the puzzle which I'm so sorry I'm that's not a fun thing to deal with

and money getting involved just makes it ten times worse. It does. Yeah, parent plus loans are a big big big no no. If you're listening and you ever take a parent plus loan just know I'm mad at you and a puppy stopped wagging its tail. Yeah, it's a problem. Don't do it. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is the season for Halloween.

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I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is George Campbell. We're the ones taking your calls. We'll give you our best advice. Some say the advice is worth what you pay for it. All right, let's go to Sophia in Washington, DC. What's up, Sophia? Hi there.

So I'm kind of dealing with this situation where I got divorced three years ago. I was able to buy my ex-husband out of the house. I'm looking at getting remarried now and my boyfriend is asking to put me put on the deed to the house. Right now or after you get married? After we get married. And you don't want to? I've had to make a lot of sacrifices to be in the financial situation I'm in and I just don't feel like he makes those same sacrifices and he's just walking into a house and- Hold up, then why do you want to marry this guy?

You already have resentment toward him. I don't, he just really enjoys boating and I enjoy having a roof over my head. Girl, uh-uh, there's something, there's animosity there. You don't think this is gonna play out in a marriage? Cause it's only gonna get worse from here on out. Cause it's gonna be, well, this is my money that I earned and so I'm gonna spend it here

and we're gonna split the rent. At that point, just get a roommate. I don't want you to get married if you're gonna enter into the situation where you're resentful. So the perspective I come from it is that once we're married, we'll put everything into a bank account together and we can save up for our own house. The problem is I have a child from my first marriage and I want the house to go to her if anything were to ever happen to me.

Okay, but that's not the way marriage works necessarily. So let's pull back because you came in hot into the conversation to the point to where George and I were like, wow, this woman has some beef towards him. So let's kind of back out for a second because you're marrying a guy, right? That if, to me, if you're marrying somebody, this is the person you ultimately trust.

That you wanna build wealth with. That you wanna build wealth with and you trust your children with them. So what I just heard you say sounded as though, and how old is your child by the way? Three years old. Three years old. So what you just said sounded as though

if something were to happen to you, God forbid, you want the house to go to her, but wouldn't the house go to your spouse who is taking care of your daughter? What's wrong with that? Her father would technically get custody of her. Okay. So she wouldn't have any of that.

So then the father's gonna move into the house that your husband's in to take care of her? No, the way I have it set now is that the house is in a guardianship. So my parents are the executors on that and would be able to rent the house out until she's 18 and then sell it. Do you have life insurance?

I do. Okay, you got term life in place, 10 to 12 times your income? Yes. Okay. That could be the solution to a lot of this because you can make her the beneficiary and she'll have the money, it can be in a trust, you'll have the guardian of it.

But I feel like this is like a leverage piece and you've got a lot of hurt from the past which is very understandable, but I think bringing that into this new marriage is gonna just put a wall up instantly that says I'm not gonna let you totally in, but I want 100% from you. And I felt the wall.

When you just said it, I felt like, oh wow, this lady's got, she's really protecting herself is what it feels like you're trying to do and really almost walling off your daughter as well. And it just, for George and I, I mean, we've just been talking to you just for a couple of minutes and it feels like, oh, okay. So I like what George said about the insurance.

And if I'm the spouse, like let's George and I sit in your boyfriend's situation for a minute. If I come into this, I'm like, wait a minute, I'm living with you, but I don't have any rights. You know, like I wanna go on the mortgage together. And of course it makes sense if something were to happen to you that, you know. Yeah, is his name gonna be on the mortgage?

No, his name would not be on the mortgage. Why not? I guess that would require us refinancing and it's at a low interest rate. Okay, but he, let me put it in his shoes. He's going, okay, I'm helping her build equity to a home that I have no real involvement in. And that's gonna go to the daughter, which I'll have no real involvement in. Mm-hmm. And that's gonna go to the daughter,

which I'll have no real involvement in if something were to happen. You did mention that you were interested in saving up money together to buy your own place. What would happen if when you got married, you said, okay, I've got the life insurance for my daughter, she's covered, and essentially, if you guys were to get married,

your spouse would have life insurance too, so if something happened to him, you'd be covered. So like, everybody's going to be covered here. And then if you guys said, okay, this current house, we're going to sell it and buy something together. What's wrong with that? Or you just add him to it. Yeah, I just, I guess I wanted him to understand what it's like to be a homeowner and sacrifice with me to build something completely from scratch together. Okay.

I think we can address that without using this as a leverage piece with the deed. I think you need to address this with them and say, listen, I wanna spend my life with you, but I have some real concerns about the way you handle money. And I want to raise this child, I wanna build wealth together,

and it sounds like you wanna just go have fun and boat in your spare time. And I need someone who has more skin in the game. I think if we address the underlying issues, then the deed is whatever. Add them to it, don't, you know. Do you think you could have that hard conversation with him? I think I can. Would he be shocked to know that you don't like his free spirit, childlike attitude toward money?

He would not. Okay. This has come up before. It has. I would also use that gut check to say, should this relationship move forward until we address this? Because if we don't align on this, I don't think you should move forward. I wouldn't move in together.

Well, I will be fair. He has been addressing it. He recently sold his boat, stopped paying marina fees. So there are steps in the right direction. So he's boatless now. Why we want him. He's boatless now. That sounds like the ultimate sacrifice.

Yes, and I do appreciate it quite a bit. Okay. So it sounds like he is wanting to make strides. And again, if you're going to go into this, I would be all in. I think it's the only way. I know you have past hurt, and once you've gone through a divorce, in the back of your mind, you're always thinking, I need an escape hatch with the what ifs. But I think if this is going to work, it's got to be, we're all in on this. And that means we're going to work, it's gotta be, we're all in on this.

And that means we're gonna combine bank accounts, combine incomes, combine everything, combine houses, deeds, mortgages, it's all us. And that's what creates a teamwork. Yeah, okay. Okay. Thanks for the call. It was good to have a reality check.

Yeah, we want the best for you. We're not trying to accuse you or poke holes in your plan, but we we want the best for you. We're not trying to accuse you or poke holes in your plan, but we really want the best for you. And when you call and we hear that in your voice or we hear that fear or that hurt, we definitely wanna address it because it's more than money, right? In this case, it definitely is more than just money.

There's a lot of emotion there. There's, to your point, George, a lot of previous baggage there, and that's normal. Well, and she's got, you know, the mama bear wants to protect that baby, the three-year-old, and I totally get that. So there's a lot at play here, and there may be some healing to do,

and I just don't want that to be projected onto this guy and hurt the relationship in the long-term. And the truth is, you know, if you're dealing with a three-year-old, if we're really thinking about this, okay, you got a three-year-old, you wanna make sure they're set up. Life insurance really is the best way.

Because think about it, a lot of times, if somebody does pass away in their left property, the first thing they do is sell it anyway, right? Cause they want to get their hands on cold hard cash. So that's really what people want is that cash. So 10 to 12 times your income is gonna be plenty to make sure your final wishes are taken care of and then that they're taken care of.

It's for anybody who relies on your income, basically, is what you're covering. And the idea there is that you take that lump sum from the life insurance and you invest it and the returns off of that could replace your income. That's right. That's why we say 10 to 12 times. We've seen the average return in the stock market

over a long period of time, 10 to 12%. So if you wanna get term life in place, connect with our friends at Zander. That's where I have mine through for my wife and I. Same with Jade. And just run away from anyone selling you whole life. Term life is a fraction of the cost. You're gonna get great coverage.

And you only need it for that 15 or 20 or 25 years, because you're going to become self-insured if you follow the Ramsey Plan. You're gonna get the house paid off, you're gonna build up sizable investments in that nest egg and your family's gonna be okay. And if you're a stay at home parent, we still recommend getting, you know.

At least a half million dollar policy. Exactly, because you have something, again, there's people that are relying on you, but what we don't do is take out policies on children. So hopefully that gives you a little bit of insight. This is the Ramsey show. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here and I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the money and relationships

tour with Dr. John Deloney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City in April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more information at ramsysolutions.com slash tour. This is the Ramsey Show. All right, the Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YREFI. Hey, we've all made money mistakes and so if you have defaulted on private

student loans, trust me, I know all about that, we're not judging you, but we are saying that you can do something about it. So you need to contact YREFI, okay? YREFI was created for people in your exact situation. So go to wirefy.com slash Ramsey. Again, that's y-r-e-f-y dot com slash Ramsey. And remember, it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Shelby in Oklahoma. My husband and I are in our early 20s and just got to Baby Step 4.

Our income is just north of $250,000 with the help of overtime and side hustles. But living below our means is actually how we've gotten to where we are. I'm facing a lot of emotional conflict over family and friends hating on us for doing the hard work of the Baby Steps and for our high income amount.

We don't have anyone cheering us on except the Ramsey community and it feels very lonely at times. Knowing that we're still very early in our careers and knowing we will only increase in our wealth, will the jealousy and naysaying only get worse? We really just need some encouragement. Wow.

Will it get worse? Probably, because they're gonna make fun of you for doing the plan, then they're gonna be jealous, envious, and judgmental when you do well. Yeah, they're slipping on their hater, right? There's no winning you do well. Yeah, they're sippin' on that hater aid. There's no winning with these people. Yeah, man. So here's an easy life hack,

stop caring what other people think. If they don't pay your bills, they don't get a vote. That's my policy. I agree, yeah, they're on that hater aid. But you know what, George, it is painful because you want your family to be like, yeah, way to go. You want them to notice that you've done something good,

right? You want them to slap you a high five or say good job or just some sort of acknowledgement. So I do think it's tough when you don't get that. When you've done something pretty amazing, like pay off debt. And when you've done something amazing, like garner a higher income,

that's a great accomplishment as well. Number one, I think they're secretly envious of their amazing income in their early 20s. I mean, how many people in their early 20s are making 250 grand? Not many. There's one piece, and then the other piece is, they're doing a hard thing in transforming their life,

and that holds up a mirror to how out of shape I am financially. That's right. And therefore, I don't like it. Yeah. And so I think there's a both and there, and it's only gonna get worse as they become debt free, as they make more money and build wealth.

Cause then it's gonna be, wow, look at the house they have. There must be doing pretty, and they, we did so much for them. You'd think they would. It's a personal problem. There's always gonna be something with unhealthy people. You're always gonna have some of this unhealthy, toxic conversation.

So the best thing you can do is shut it down, ignore it, don't talk about it. And again, you said we have no one except the Ramsey community, listen, there's hundreds of thousands of people in the Ramsey Baby Steps Community Facebook group alone that are excited for you when you tell them weird things like we just paid off our house. That's right.

So there's always a place for you to go, it's a safe place. And so go join that group, go join a financial peace university class, all of that. Get people around you who wanna see you win. And it's gonna be a much more fun journey. Yeah, hold your head high. Tell them, get that dirt off their shoulders.

Okay, George, you know, something that I noticed with these calls lately, and it's worth talking about, because, you know, we're going into the into this third hour here. Money, we talk so much about money and the health of our money, the piece that we need to experience with our money, getting debt free. And we talk about that so much

because we know that money is entwined in everything, right? It's wrapped up in everything that we do. There's a motivating factor underneath it all. And when you're in debt, it does skew your motives sometimes without you even realizing it. Think about it, you're in debt, you take a job that maybe you don't like, but it pays more, but the motive is,

I need that money because I wanna pay off this debt. Or you sign a Parent PLUS loan, because you think maybe this will give me a connection to somebody and I'll be able to kind of help them make a decision. I can have a say in what's going on. So there's a motivating factor underneath that. Or I don't know, one of the callers, you bought a house and you bought it in a hard time and you sacrificed everything to get it.

So now that you're getting married to a guy, he didn't have to do that sacrifice. Now you've weaponized. So there's always this like motivation underneath money. And so ultimately we know that it's important to have a healthy relationship. When your debt is cleared, it clears a lot of that motive out. And when you have a healthy relationship

with how you view money, it clears a lot of that out. And so just a reminder that it's not just paper with dead presidents faces on it There's a lot of emotion and relational equity tied up in that that's one of the reasons we tell people Never ever under any circumstances lend someone money, right? Cuz that's if you want to gift it to them as a one-time thing That's fine. But if you lend people money, it always ends up hurting the relationship. You become the banker That's right

And they become the person. That's right. And they become the person who owes you money, which makes it real awkward every time they interact with you and you see them go on vacation and you go, wait, they owe me money. No matter how much you love them. So don't intertwine money before you're married. Don't sign the parent plus loan for your kids.

Don't take out the debt consolidation loan for your boyfriend. And if you think these are the things I'm making up, these are all calls we've taken in the last 60 minutes. Yeah, and then there's the part of it, George, where let's have conversation. Like let's normalize talking about each other's views on money.

Because if you're gonna enter into a relationship with somebody, but you're not talking about the elephant in the room, which is the fact that we both have money, he makes more than I do, or I make more than he does, I spend it like this, he saves it like, if you're not talking about that, you can hear when people call in and there's like kind of that animosity or there's a little bit of resentment because they're not talking about it.

And so if you're dating someone, if you're engaged to someone, if you're married, it's never too late to say, okay, let's, let's have a real conversation here because here, here are my views on money. Or maybe I actually like to start with the other person's views on money. Tell me your views on money. What is, what's your philosophy? What do you think about debt? You know, is it something that you did one time and you made the mistake and you never want to do it again? Or is it something that you did one time and you feel like it's a great thing to

leverage? Like have those conversations because it's going to pop up again. It's like a zombie. It never really goes away. And so you wanna know what this person's views are before you get too down the line with them and before it feels too late to make a change. Yeah, and if those are that person's principles and values

and they're not gonna change. That's fine. At least we know. Now we know. But now we know not to move forward with the relationship or we have to go to counseling to find out how we're going to overcome this in a marriage. Yeah, because how many times have we taken the call where one person in the relationship kind of has their money together or they're working on it and then-

Or they feel like they're doing so much better than the other person. Yeah, they feel like they're doing so much better and the other person. Yeah, they feel like they're doing so much better. And in their mind, they're kind of the caretaker. They've taken in the person who wasn't making as much, the person who didn't have as much debt or has more debt, not having the better financial situation. And so underlying the whole time they're thinking like, are they just taking advantage of me?

Are they just living here? Cause I'm giving them a- They're mooching. Are they mooching? So this is, these are many of the ways that money just filters in. And if we don't talk about it, it kind of just fosters and grows in our minds.

So have these conversations with your spouse, have these conversations with your boyfriend, if you've been dating for a while, certainly have them with your fiance and make it part of marriage counseling. Like before you get married. Yeah, well that's why I encourage people to take Financial Peace University as a part

of premarital counseling because it'll start these conversations. It is a big deal. Okay, do we have time to take another call? I don't want to. Is it risky? No, it's risky. Let's just- We're not rolling dice.

No, we're not gonna roll dice. One thing I do want to add to that, Jade, a lot of people think, well, I don't wanna marry someone with debt. I don't wanna date someone with debt. And here's the deal, we never discourage someone from marrying or being in a relationship with someone with debt, but you do have to figure out, are they wanting to stay there? If they're with gazelle intensity trying to get out,

and a lot of people go, well, Jade, I work so hard to stay debt free or become debt free, and now they're coming into the relationship with $100,000 in student loans. And if you treat them like this project, or like, hey, that's your debt, and you need to figure that out once we're married. Don't get married.

Don't get married yet. You're taking on all of them, all the good, all the bad, and the bad might be part of their debt. But guess what? If you look at it as this is a season, hey, I know I saved up all this money for a house, but now it's gonna go toward my spouse's debt. And then there's other part of it where

it's almost like we want them to have the same penance that we had and it's like, I had to walk through this, I had to sacrifice, you should have to too. And I'm like, listen, if you're getting married and you have the money to bless your spouse in the way of saying, hey, we're getting married. I've saved up $40,000 and there's $40,000 of debt. Once we get into this marriage, that's a blessing. And to make it seem like you have to, you have to go through what I went through.

That's, that's another sign of you're not ready. You're basically just get healthy before you get in a relationship. Yeah, that's all we're asking. And if you don't want to marry them, if they're in debt, then don't marry them. That's also your choice, too. It's a free country. It's a free country. This is The Ramsey Show.

Listen, the housing market is crazy. And if you've been on the internet, here's the sentiment. Affording a home is impossible and you're doomed to be a renter for the rest of your life. Right? Wrong. George Campbell here. Listen, finding a home you love within your budget is possible. And I'm excited to help you get there with our brand new course, How to Buy a Home You Can Actually Afford.

From saving a down payment that fits your budget, to making an offer that sellers can't resist, we'll cover it all. So if you're ready to seal the deal on the right home for you, take the course at ramsysolutions.com slash course. That's ramsysolutions.com slash course. That's ramsysolutions.com slash course. This is the Ramsey show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is George Camel. Hey guys, I know we've been talking about this, but I really want you to be on this live like no one else

cruise. So we're going to keep talking about it. It's March 22nd through the 29th, 2025. And you already know most of the cabins are gone, but we want it sold out. And again, this is not your average cruise. This is a premier Caribbean cruise. Caribbean or Caribbean? I'm a Caribbean kind of guy. All right. That's right.

Caribbean Queen. That's it. Okay. So we're going to Turks and Caicos, Puerto Rico, St. Thomas, Bahamas. And again, this is a top of the line cruise. I can tell you I've been in the cruise business for a long time. That's what I did before I came here. Holland America, it's pretty top draw. Okay. This is a nice cruise. Holland America, it's the new Staten Dom. It meets the standard for the Ramsey guest.

Okay. Let's, let's just put it like that. We're not gonna have anything shabby. This is very nice. It's all inclusive, foods included, even room service, okay? So you can get your hot dog on at 3 a.m. in the morning and no one's gonna stop you. Get your hamburger. It's like a lot of poor decisions happening. Crew ships at 3 a.m.

Heck yeah. That's the fun part. You order room service, you have some drinks. You're like a kid again. Yes. It's like blank check, Richie Rich. Yeah, and then they've got these specialty restaurants that are top of the line.

And then there's of course really, really great entertainment while you're on. There's pools, the hot tubs, the fitness center. Ken and I will be on the pickleball courts. There's the spa and salon, which I have been to, and I can tell you that it's on point. Jade and I will be doing karaoke night. Yeah, I told him we have like a sunny and sheer thing planned.

Oh, that's amazing. We should work on a routine. Yeah. A little song and dance for the people. Yeah. So all the Ramsay personalities are going to be there and no, George and I are not going to do sunny and sheer. That is a lie. But we will be there. Not in full costume at least. We'll do the voices. That's right. We're going to have fun. The point is by the time you end,

we're all going to be best friends because we will have spent seven days with each other for better or worse. And so yes, if you want to book your cabin, do it today at ramsdesolutions.com slash cruise. You can click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or a podcast. Be there or be square, my friends. All right, let's take another call. We've got Mark. He's in Augusta, Georgia. What's going on Mark?

Hey, yes. Hey Well, I'm good now we got power yesterday six 12 days. Oh my goodness was this from Helene? Yes It looks like something like a McKenna, what is it called? Willey sticks or something like that. And just dumped it. Oh my God. My neighborhood and three neighborhoods down.

We're probably like one mile directly from the masters and where people's parked their cars. I don't know if you've ever been there on the outskirts of it. There's probably 50 pound trees down there. We're slowly getting power over in that area and stuff. But over here people have like four and five pine trees on top of the house. There's no way, no way that can rebuild the house and stuff. What about you?

That could probably tear it apart. Uh, actually we had the last storm was 10 years ago and we used to get them every 10 years. It was an ice storm that came through here. Yeah. And it broke down a lot of limbs and all that stuff. So what we decided to do then was go ahead and get rid of all the trees in our yard. So that saved you. Yes.

How can we help today? How can you what? How can we help today? Okay. One of the things I wanted to talk to you about was this happens to a lot of neighbors and stuff when their neighbors trees fall on their property and stuff and then the neighbors responsible to remove their neighbors tree and stuff. But I don't know who passed that law and stuff. I just don't get it. So did, did a neighbor's tree fall

on your house? No, if a, if a neighbor's tree falls in your which it did it did during ice storm that cost us forty six hundred dollars to remove it. Okay. It was their tree and stuff and it fell in our yard so that's what a lot of people are dealing with right now and some people don't have the money and stuff and the neighbors can just sit back and say hey. So what are you dealing with Mark? What's your financial question? OK, my financial question was, we just got our house painted and all that stuff. We had storm windows in the front of the house and stuff.

After the storm, no power and all that stuff. We couldn't have come in because the flies were skewed. The drive was crazy. OK. I've got one company, and I'm not going to say their name and all that stuff. They're well known. And they said they will come out. They're going to have to measure them. They'll be home made and all this stuff.

And it was like this four months before we can get them, but they want me to give them 50% upfront. And I thought I'm not going to do that. I saw, I gave you 10, maybe 15. I said, I can even get you a letter for the bank saying I'm good for the whole loan, but that's money that I'll be losing. I said, I can even get you a letter from the bank saying, I'm good for the whole loan. But that's money that I'll be losing if I have it in the savings account or something like that. How much money do you have in savings?

Do you have the full amount? $89,000. Okay. I'll get the full amount, that will blow up there. I'll be tired from keeping the clock and all, so I'm good to go. Let me pull back. So you're trying to get storm windows

or you're trying to get a different type of window. I'll replace all the windows and they'll have storm windows. And how much is that gonna cost total? I actually ran across a guy, I saw the business and I got a haircut and I walked in next door to grab a beer and the guy was sitting right there

and he said $8,700. Okay, well, I don't know that I would go. And the guy was sitting right there, and he said, $8,700. Okay, well, I don't know that I would go with a guy who was just sitting there, getting his haircut, drinking a beer. I would get multiple bids from reputable companies that you search out. I was getting my haircut. Oh, but still he's the first guy you saw.

And he mentioned it. Here's the thing, you've just come off of something traumatic. It's scary what just has gone on where you live. Oh, you would not believe. And then you've got the 12 days with no power. And you're thinking to myself, I want it just like you did with the ice storm. You're like, I'm doing everything I can to make sure if this happens again,

I'm in a better situation. So you cleared out the trees and now you're going through that same motion again. And you're going next time this happens, I'm going to be a better situation. I'm going to get storm windows, storm drains. Yes. And I'm not mad at you for doing that and it might be a good idea based on where you live. However, I don't want you going with the first Yahoo off the street that says I'll do it for you 8700. I want you to take your time. Oh no, no, no. It's not that. This is a place that's well known. Okay. My neighbor across

street and all his friends have highly recommended this company. Yes, but I still want you to get, I still want you to get a couple of estimates, right? That's just you doing your due diligence and saying, there might be another well-known company that'll do it a little bit cheaper. Maybe they'll do it a little bit faster, but at least you can compare, right? And that's just being a good consumer at that point.

Oh yeah, you get your expert, you look at the types of materials and all that stuff, and look at that and all that stuff. And then when you do it, only pay cash. Do not borrow money for this. You get desperate and you look at the type of materials and all that stuff. Look at that and all that stuff. That's right. And then when you do it, only pay cash. Do not borrow money for this. Okay, I'm gonna end with this. Jay, you were talking about this a bit.

I've been listening to you for 40, 45 minutes. I'm sorry, Jess. I'm so tired. That's okay. But 45 minutes and the women were talking about that we're trying to protect their investments. Well, they're right. All right, guys are nothing but dogs.

I'm telling you, so they'll go wherever they got to do and stuff. But then they finally realize at the end, I need to sell down somewhere. Wait a minute. You went off. You went off on a tangent. We're supposed to be talking about storm storm windows. I'm just telling you, Mark's got some beef with these guys out there. Guys will. They will take advantage of women.

Well, not a good guy. Hey, we hope that everything works out with you in this storm. And I do think if you live in an area that's prone to natural disasters, you need to make sure that you have the right things in place to keep you covered. And of course, for a lot of people, it's impact windows.

It might be having the hurricane-graded roof, right? Obviously having the right insurances in place, and we know that insurance has gotten very expensive because of the storms that are happening. And so just do your due diligence there. The other piece is don't let companies use this to sort of fear monger and get you in your time where you're vulnerable to say,

you need all these things to protect your family, and it's gonna cost $30,000 and here's the loan. Right. A lot of people will fall prey to some of that as well because they're so scared. There's fear, yeah. And so you gotta do things from a calm perspective. The person with the most patience, information,

and options wins. And that's what we're talking about here. Do your research with a calm head, pay cash, save up, have an emergency fund in place, don't owe people money, and that's gonna put you in the best position for, no matter what life throws at you. And no matter what it is that you're trying to get done, don't go with the first company that, whose card you get, you run into them at Home Depot, or you know,

you met them at Chili's, I don't know, whatever it is, at least get a couple of different estimates, because the truth is, you might find a better one. Yeah, I don't take business pitches in Chili's. Yeah. That's my rule, it's my thing. No, no, no, no. Well, Jay, this hour is about to end.

So if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, you gotta jump over to the Ramsey Network app to finish the show. So go get it. If you're on radio, the show will continue. But if you're on YouTube or podcast, jump over to the Ramsey Network app. You can go download it in the app store for free

or click the link in the show notes. And don't miss out what's coming up in the third hour because I see some good calls on the board that you don't want to miss out on. I was approved for a home loan. Should I get a home in baby step two? We'll talk about that. Is it better to pay off my mortgage

or invest the extra into retirement? I don't know. That's a cliffhanger. You'll have to pop into the app to see what's next. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey! You're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network

app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. Alright, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.