The Ramsey Show - There Is Hope in the Midst of the Struggle

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

💵 Sign-up for EveryDollar today - The simplest way to budget for your life! Jade Warshaw & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: "I feel scared about my future..." "Am I entitled to anything if we break up?" "I'm worth $7m but I'm still stingy," "How can I set boundaries with family about money?" "Do we really need to pause investing?" Real talk about the current housing market. Support Our Sponsors: USCCA BetterHelp Zander Insurance Neighborly Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! ❤️ Money & Marriage Getaway is back!  📈 For help with investing, get connected with a SmartVestor Pro.  Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am your host, Jade Warshaw. I'm here with one of my favorite guys, Dr. John Deloney. What's up? He's the co-host today. He's here to take all your questions on just overall wellness. I'm here for the money side. He's got you on the relational side. And give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. John, I feel like it's a minute since you and I have flown this plane. I know. I miss you, man. You doing okay? I'm doing good.

Let me tell you, we posted that post on social media this morning and it went, it's gone bananas. Is it spun up? Man. Oh, that was the one about folks taking out just wild town loans for cars. Cars. $2,500 a month payments. Yeah.

The equivalent of a house, basically. Yeah. A nice house. Yeah. The equivalent of a house, basically. A nice house. Yeah. My favorite was you clowning on that, whatever somebody posted, and they had put prayer hands and you're like, that ain't from God. No, that's not a blessing. That was not a blessing.

That is not a blessing. So man, give us a call. We're going to help you decipher and differentiate between the things that are, you know, really good with your money and the things that you might need to think twice about. Maybe it's your car payment. Maybe it's a home you're considering buying. We'll help you sort through that. So you can give us a call. The call is free. You can call at any time in the next three hours, really, depending on when you're listening. But in the meantime, we've got Michelle who is on the line. She's from Denver, Colorado. What's going on, Michelle? Hi. So a little bit about my situation. I just

turned 50 last month. I have been engaged for eight years. My fiance and I, we have a daughter together. She's seven years old. I have two teenagers from my first marriage and my fiance has two adult children. And here's my question. So I'm increasingly becoming a little worried about my future. I don't work. My fiance and I agreed that I should, you know, stay at home with my daughter and my two other kids. They also live with us. He's the primary breadwinner. He owns three houses and they are all in his name. He had one house before we were engaged, but he has since purchased two other homes, neither of which I am on the title. I drive a car that's in his name. My phone is in his name. I have absolutely nothing in my name.

And in addition to that, he will not be transparent with me. Like if something were to happen to him, like he won't show me the will. I'm just becoming really insecure, I guess, in my relationship, but in my financial situation as well. And I just don't know what to do at this stage. I feel like i'm very in the dark you are in the dark you are in the dark i'm insecure for you me too go ahead john how can we help i don't know what you're asking if you were my sister i would tell you to pack up everything you have and go get an attorney today it's been eight years you're not married yet you're still engaged?

We are not married. We are... But Colorado's a common law state. But it's also... Jeez. It's a mess. This is an absolute stone mess. I... Yeah, how can I help you?

What are you looking for? Well, I'm just wondering, I mean, if I were to leave the relationship, basically I'm guessing I am not entitled to anything but perhaps child support. I think, I'm not a legal expert, so I can't give you legal advice, but I think that's wildly inaccurate. I think after a certain time, again, don't hold me to this, check with a licensed attorney in your state,

but I think once after you pass a certain point, there's property that y'all earned, quote unquote, together, whether you were putting money in the pot or not, because the house doesn't run without you, right? And so that allowed somebody to go earn some money so but sit with an attorney and work through all that i want to go back to something you just said you said if i were to end this relationship like my friend michelle like your relationship's over y'all can build something new from here and decide you're gonna you're gonna do this thing right but

what you like to allow somebody to take care of a child with as little information as you have as to hang somebody out to dry like this this This is not a relationship. This is not a partnership. This is a really messy, messy power trip is what this is. I agree with you. I feel like there's just so much control. I feel like there's like this hierarchy of power and I feel like I am at the very bottom of that. So I am in complete agreement, which is why I am just so frustrated, which is kind of like the reason for my call. Yeah. But you're frustrated about bigger stuff than this. This, I mean, there's no way that y'all have a great intimate life. There's no way you have a great, y'all are friends that y'all hang out because friends like just, I wouldn't do this with my buddy,

right? Like my buddy Todd was my college roommate. He knows where my will is, right? He knows the role he plays in my will. And he's just a friend. He's not my wife, right? I mean, this is just common decency. And he won't even give you that. So y'all have deeper issues here. You gotta bite the bullet and go get an attorney.

And if you have a couple of friends in town that you could reach out to that would recommend somebody that would be good and fair and give you honest advice and not rake you over the coals, man, that'd be my next step. And if we were to try to repair our relationship?

You're not repairing anything. The car has been totaled. You would have to build something completely new and that begins with you saying here's what i want and here's what i need and here's what i what i'm worth in terms of a relationship and somewhere along the way over the last almost decade you've decided that your voice doesn't matter almost as much as he does. When did this start? When did you start feeling this way? I've started feeling this way the past few years, but as I turned 50, I have just felt really worthless. Um, just because I don't, I don't, I don't feel like I have anything. And like I said,

like, I think for me, when I turned 50, I kind of hit a corner. I'm like, I don't know how long I have, but if he were to walk away or if something were to happen, I am really fearful that I would have to start at the very, very beginning. And obviously, I need to get a job and I need to get my life together. But I think your fear is very warranted. Okay, well, I mean, I really appreciate you confirming that. Yeah, I'm scared for you.

Let me confirm it this way. You're not crazy. If you were my friend, I would tell you you're crazy for sticking around for eight years because you've allowed this to happen. Right, I have. I mean, it for sticking around for eight years because you've allowed this to happen. Right. I have. I mean, it is on me.

That is absolutely for sure. But the beauty of that is once you take ownership of that, next step's on you too. Okay. Go call an attorney. Well, thank you so much. You got it. Oh, yeah. Man, we love you.

Call anytime we can help. But call an attorney and get that process going. My goodness. I'm almost glad that we're going to a break because this is the third time in a very short period today that I've just heard and been on calls where men are tripping. Yeah. And I want to go. I want to go so hard in the paint right now, but I can't. But I just need these guys to get in line and understand that they need to love their families well

and they need to do better. This is The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. This is Dr. John Deloney over to my right. If you're listening, he is the other voice that you will be hearing. John, you know,

we just had a call before the break and I felt for you know my girl who called in because her dude was just way off to be together for eight years common law marriage I mean under the law that's that's what it is she's got as much entitlement to everything as if they were married but he won't put her name on anything. He won't let her know where the will is. He won't let her be involved in conversations regarding money and the things that honestly directly affect her life. And I was kind of getting pissed because I just feel like I'm hearing that

more and more. Had the privilege of coaching some folks earlier this week. And I keep hearing the same story over and over where couples are so divided with their money. They're so divided with their finances and maybe I'm old school. Maybe I'm going to get canceled. I don't know. But where I come from,

you, you one plus one doesn't equal to it equals one. Right. And you got to be on the same page when it comes to these finances. And I'm so tired like i'm gonna just say it if sam warshaw let me put it in terms that i can say if sam warshaw said to me hey don't forget to venmo me you're half of the rent you would never see him again he would be on the moon because i'm like you're half of the rent are you kidding me

or don't it's your night to pay for the dinner oh and you can't have access you can't know where the will is and your name can't be on the mortgage are you kidding me that's just that is a man who does not he's not looking out for the well-being of his family. He's looking out for the well-being of number one. And you can't love anybody well when you're putting yourself first and foremost. It's literally got to be the opposite. It's a man that's so small and lacks so much self-confidence and strength and actual leadership that the only way he can puff his chest out and feel like he's in the front of the line is by withholding. Just controlling.

It's leadership by I know something you don't know. It is power by I know a thing that you don't know. So ha ha ha ha. And you just sit down because you don't even know where anything is. Your name's not even on anything. I'm getting burned up just you saying it. I'm just getting burned up. It's so frustrating because there's wives and kids.

Yes. These are children. These are human beings. And at the end of the day, true strength, true leadership, true walk alongside, true service is we're all in this together here's every piece of information here's all the stuff on the table there's no secrets here we go we're gonna do this thing together and that means we have to have hard conversations we have to figure stuff out we're gonna disagree yes but that's not cowardice that's right and

it's not childishness yeah right i'm taking my truck and going home i'm sick of a generation of grown men who that's that's they think that's their role in the world yeah is uh this is my money this is my oh gosh man it's just not a way to live it's not a way to live jade warshaw i live in that way i'll tell you that right now and i just you know i i get it like when we talk about combining finances and, I think it's important to say combining finances is rarely a light switch. Like it's not just like I go home, I have one conversation, boom, we're on the same page.

I think it is worth noting and affirming that for many couples, like this is a journey. Like this is a mini conversation. Yes, but there is that line where there is a clear disrespect that's taking place or there's like a clear wow you completely don't value me at all and you're treating me that way or you're very confused as to what it looks like to value somebody in the relationship and value them in an equal part yeah and I think that's the part that's just guys it burns me up um i would say it just burns me up uh not even an equal part

i have to value more than myself yes that's that's what i was saying before it's i have to value more yes yeah yeah you want to you want to quote unquote lead then you get on the bottom you carry the whole thing thank you that's what it is it's not going first to making sure that uh your bread's buttered first right that's not how that works it's the opposite it's the opposite that's it all right i'm just saying that i'm not how that works. It's the opposite. It's the opposite. That's it. All right. I'm just saying that.

I'm not trying to get on you. It's because we love you guys. We want to see you win, and you can't win when it's flipped around. Anyway, let's take a call. I got Mark in Honolulu, Hawaii. What's going on, Mark? Hope we didn't go too hard in the paint before your call.

What's going on? It's all good. Oh, my gosh. My heart is pounding. I'm earning extra Fitbit minutes just sit here and wait for you guys. What's up, man? We're burning calories. How can we help?

Aiden John. So I got two questions. One, I'd like to know if you think I can go part-time for my job. And number two is kind of a psychological question for JD. I can't ever approve of any of my family members spending extra money, even though I make a really good salary. So like, for example... Hold on, hold on.

Before we get going, before we get going, I'm going to cut you off. We're going to get our language right, okay? Okay. You can. You've chosen not to, okay? So you choose not to let your family spend anything, even though you've got a great salary.

Go ahead, keep going. Gotcha. Keep going. That makes sense. Keep going. Yeah, exactly. Like, if we go out to dinner and the kids want an extra drink, I'll say yes, but inside of me, I'm like,

man, that extra $3 we could have saved. Did you grow up without any? Yeah, I grew up poor. There you go. I mean, I wouldn't say poor. I would say okay. I mean, I saw my parents bring us up from a one-bedroom apartment and then made their money, and they saved and saved.

Hey, hey, Mark, give yourself some grace. Your nervous system is wired up this way. Money is a scary thing that divides families, causes mom and dad to act scary, that bounces around from one bedroom apartments to a house to this and that. That's in your nervous system. The challenge for you is to recognize, hey, we used to not be safe and now we are. So that doesn't mean my kids get everything that's that's that's been my approach because i grew up in a scary financial situation growing up and my challenge has been my kids i'm they can have everything

they want whenever i got to wheel that back too because i'm going to create monsters if i'm not careful right but what that means is when they say hey dad i'm still hungry can i get another taco and i go sure buddy and that my heart starts beating i have to know inside i'm practicing What that means is when they say, hey, Dad, I'm still hungry. Can I get another taco? And I go, sure, buddy. And my heart starts beating. I have to know inside I'm practicing something new. And that is we're okay. And I've never had that before, but I'm going to practice. We weren't okay, but we are now.

And it's going to be uncomfortable at first, but the more you're mindful of it, the more you accept it, the more your body goes, all right, we're okay now. And you can start being strategic. So, go into the money part with Jade. How we doing? I mean, this is an absurd thing. I mean, I'm worth 7.3. Bro, it's not absurd.

You're running for your life. Okay, that's a little absurd. You're pretty wealthy. I mean, I have rental properties all paid for, value at $2 million, bringing in, I would say, net $8,000 a month. I'm a physician. I'm one of those weird physicians that Dave always describes,

you know, I paid off my loans in my first year out. I've been out for about 20 years. Good. So you just need to loosen the purse strings is what you're saying. For real. I'm just so wound up, and it does affect my relationship with my wife. Can I give you one more thing real quick? As a physician, we're going to run up against the clock.

I'm going to make sure Jade's got a second to speak in here. But as a physician, if you live an anxious life, always solving other people's problems, and you're doing surgeries, and you're seeing sick people over and over and over again, sometimes an anxiousness response is to grab any variable you can and hang on for dear life. And I may wonder if your money, if your net worth is this thing I can control when you have a job that's out of control, you got family, you got fires in your community, if this is a way to grab onto control, and

maybe the path forward is practicing opening your hand up. That's a mic drop. I feel like that's a mic drop. I don't see any money issues here. Show me where the money problem is. You talked about maybe going part-time. Go part-time, homie.

Hey, what about how much do you... I want to go part-time because I want to spend more time with my family. Okay, done. So it's going to reduce my income. I take home, I mean, because I live in the state of Hawaii and they take a lot.

Yeah. So my annual is going to drop down from, say, $390 down to $220 working three days a week. No, you can't do it, Mark. I'm just kidding, Mark. You're good. Do it.

You're all good. Do it. And if you carry any debt on any of these properties, pay it off. Make your life as simple as possible financially. And I love the idea that you've worked hard enough that you get to work part-time and spend more time with your family. Embrace that. I think it's excellent.

This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is the season for Halloween. It's October. We're wearing costumes and we're wearing masks. So if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. And while you're thinking about it, I want you to be honest. A lot of us hide ourselves. We hide our true selves behind costumes and masks all the time. We do this at work. We do this around our friends. We do this around our families. We even do this when we look at ourselves in the mirror. I know because I've been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding behind masks and costumes all the time, If you find yourself hiding from your true

self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can be honest, where you can talk to somebody else and reflect and learn, and you can accept all the parts of yourself over time and start living an authentic life. Masks and costumes should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. And if you're considering therapy, try calling my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for you and your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist.

Plus, you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Delaunay to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.com slash Delaunay. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. This is Dr. John Delaunay. To my right, give us a call.

The number is 888-825-5225. Your Neighborly Question of the Day is sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services. If you're moving, you have a long list of to-dos. Don't I know about that. But Neighborly has local pros like House Master, Five Star Painting, Window Genie, and Junk King to check items off that list. Visit neighborly.com slash Ramsey today to schedule home service experts near you. Today's question comes from Noah in Texas. Noah writes,

my wife and I have run into a dilemma with her family. Her parents want to go on a vacation to Costa Rica. Great place. My wife told her mom that we can't go because we're paying off debt and don't have the money. But her mom has said that they will pay for our part of the trip because they really want us to go my wife and i don't want them to do that for us how about convincing them that we aren't able to go on this trip man here's what this sounds like jade um i don't have any problem with with them going on a trip that mom pays for

that's awesome unless and I'm reading between the lines here Noah knows that that money will come with some significant strings attached 100 right 100 and so I don't I want to change your

language you're never going to convince them what you can do is you can tell them we're not going to go on the trip this year. Thank you so much for the invite. We appreciate your generosity. It's not going to work for us this year. We look forward to going with you in the future. Yeah,

that's it. That's it. That on that. And they're going to be mad. They're going to come up with excuses. They're going to be whatever, whatever. We're not going to go on the trip and that's okay.

Yeah. I, I, I 100% agree. I think we spend too much time trying to convince people or trying to explain to them why we're doing things instead of just telling them and that's it i said what i said also on the other side of it if your family wants to pay for you to go on a trip and it's going to be a great adventure for everybody go go on the trip yeah yeah absolutely but i'm with you

clearly there's strings attached and sometimes it's just, I'm not getting involved. Don't go though if there's no strings attached and it's just your ego. Go on the trip then. Is that fair? Well. Like I ain't having nobody pay for me. Shut up. Oh, like when you're just like, I don't want a handout.

I'm not taking a handout. I'm not. Just be quiet. Go on the trip with your mom and dad. If it's. Yeah. You know, it's going to come back and dad if it's yeah you know it's gonna come back back well you know honey we put a lot of money on that trip so y'all need to bring

grandkid to well now we got a whole other situation well that's kind of it's funny because what you just said the first one where it's like hey if it's i don't even know what that might sound like or feel like when you said that i was like what what must that feel like to have no to have nothing attached? I don't even know what this is, John. I talked to a buddy the other day, and he's like, my dad has taken all three kids and their families on a huge cruise, and we're all going.

And he's like, it's a long time. It's going to blow a lot of vacation, but it's going to be a fun trip. It sounded like it's going to take some maneuvering for the family. But on the whole, it's going to be a good trip yeah i'm gonna honor my dad's gonna be fun we're gonna go and i get that staying with anybody's parents for 10 days there's always gonna be stuff right always we're gonna go that's fair yeah it's when you get back from that vacation like hey we need to come roof the house for us because uh you remember i paid for that exactly now now we're into a whole

other ballgame. Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah, because I think when people want to be generous like that, it's almost as much of a gift to them if you take it. That's right. Than it is for you if you enjoy the, you know, you accept the gift. So that's interesting. Yeah, I feel that. I'm trying to get it back on a scale that it's like it's like when you go to a nice dinner and here's a good example i did this i had a one of my professors when i was graduating um said she wanted to start a um a tradition with her graduate students that she took them out to dinner so her and her husband and me and my wife went out to dinner i had a rule nobody buys me dinner and it wife went out to dinner. I had a rule. Nobody buys me dinner.

And it was more of like a bro flex than it was like this hard and fast rule. Yeah. So I slipped my card to my debit card to the to the waiter and was like, like all cool. And her look of sadness that I took that from her. It was a gift. Yeah. And I tried. I bro flexed out of it. I was like, I got this. And she's like, hey, this was a gift yeah and i tried i bro flexed out of it i was like i got this

and she was like hey this was a gift oh man and it was and i remember being super um disappointed myself because i took that from her oh it was going to be an awesome gift that i know it was going to cost her and her family a lot of money and it was a nice meal i took it from her because i had a knee gap problem right i love that you called it a bro flex. It was just so dumb. It was so stupid, man. But I think if it's a gift like that, then man, let people give you a gift. If it's their down payment on controlling your life. Or if you feel like they're doing it for spite

to try to drive home the point. No, thank you. You can feel it. You know the feeling. Let's go to the phone lines. Elena, I'm guessing it's Elena, in Kansas City, Kansas. Go Chiefs. Did I say it right or is it Alina? You do it's Alina uh Jake and John hey my husband and I are new to the Ramsey plan welcome yeah we've kind of done some stuff out of order the last couple of years. He is 58 years old.

I'm 55. And we have no bills except our mortgage and a retirement loan, which I know now we should not have done. It's about $50,000. We currently maximize our 401-403 account. Should we stop that retirement funding to pay off this $50,000? We're hesitant to do that at our age. And with the taxes, we'd have to pay on that $60,000 that we're putting in there. We cringe at that. Should we sell stocks? We do have enough to pay that in stocks. However, we would have to pay short-term capital gains on that. We recently paid off a land loan and sold some stocks,

$225,000 worth of stocks. So we would be paying short-term gains on that. Or do we not pay on those retirement loans and then just start throwing money at our mortgage it you don't have any liquid cash it's all tied up uh we have about 15 000 in cash but otherwise and that's your emergency fund yeah yeah listen i'd go to the stocks and i'd clear those out because we're not big on stocks around here anyway it's it's a lot riskier than if you were in something that's a little bit more spread out um So I'd probably liquidate the stocks and pay it. And I get what you're saying. I feel like the thing you've got to understand in situations like this is there's always a piper to pay when you make a mistake, right? And so there's no

really getting around it, whether it's in capital gains tax or whether it's pausing, you know, you have to pause investing to pay off debt. There's always a give around it, whether it's in capital gains tax or whether it's pausing. You know, you have to pause investing to pay off debt. There's always a give and take when a mistake's been made and you can't really evade that. So in this case, I think the I think the best choice is for you to liquidate some of these stocks, because like I said, they're you know, it's money that you already have. You don't have to stop investing. But I would say from this point forward, I would make sure that I'm doing a more thorough investment mix instead of putting all my eggs in one basket, especially the older you guys get. You're going to want to make sure that you've got your money spread around

in a better way. Are you guys working with a professional? We are not. The stock is in his company. He's awarded some of those and he buys into some of them. He is an Air Force veteran and has a steady paycheck from that, and then on top of that works for another company at this time, and he gets stocked in that company.

His bonuses are paid in stocks, and, again, he buys into it at a good rate. But I'll tell you this. I grew up in Houston Houston and for a season, my mom worked at this little bitty company called Enron. And they gave all their employees stocks upon stocks upon stocks. And they were some of the most valuable stocks in the world until people woke up one morning and they were all gone. And so stocks are just such a risky proposition. And all the data says when you start throwing darts at trying to pick the right stock, you lose, you lose. And yours is just by default. Like you didn't even choose this really, it chose you. So it's even more of a gamble in that way.

You're getting stocks. So man, I would take that stock and sell it and say thanks as though it's cash. And invest it. Yeah. And by the way, you're paying a penalty every month in the interest on the loan you took out. So you're paying a penalty. Like Jade said, you're going to pay a penalty regardless. I'm looking at by 62 years old, can I be completely free? Can we owe nobody anything except just us? And then that Air Force check comes in. Then husband keeps working. And now we're off to the races. Yeah, that's the way to do this.

Those 401k loans, they're tricky. You know, people think I can just access this money. It's no big deal. But the fact of the matter is, if you lose your job or if you walk away from that job, that loan becomes due within the next 12 months. Like it's, it compounds on itself that

quickly. So you've got to be careful with those 401k loans. You never know. This is the Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I've taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills? I'm going to eat next week. Yeah. In the middle of all that grief, like it's just, it is, it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and

I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw, joined by Dr. John Deloney. You can give us a call. We'll talk about your life and your money. The number is 888-825-5225. And I'm so excited because we have an amazing live event coming up here at Ramsey Solutions. It's actually on our campus at our live event center.

It's going to be May 10th and 11th, and we're calling it the Total Money Makeover Weekend, which is cool. It takes place on the anniversary of the Total Money Makeover book that we all know and love. And so I'm really excited. It's very different. It's different from any other event that we've done. All the personalities are there. We are teaching on the stuff we've always talked about, but just in a new and invigorating way. So that's exciting. It's one weekend and you get a crash course on everything we teach about money. So you hear us talk about the baby steps all the time. And so this is perfect because it doesn't matter if you're on baby step one or maybe you're on baby step seven, there is going to be enough content for you to get excited, to get riled up about it.

So I'm excited. It's really just going to be a big fat party, a big rally, and everybody there is going to be like-minded. So that's really exciting. No matter what baby step you're on, it's going to light that fire. There's also going to be Q&As. So that's really exciting. No matter what baby step you're on, it's going to light that fire. There's also going to be Q&As. I know that myself and Ken Coleman have cooked up some really fun content. No pun intended there. So that was just a little Easter egg.

So hopefully you'll enjoy it. Early bird tickets start at $99. That's only for a limited time. So you got to get your tickets now. You can do that at ramsaysolutions.com slash events. Yeah. And just keep in mind, this event center holds 2,400 people. So these tickets are going to go super fast.

So get your tickets today. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash events. Very cool. Can't wait for that. Let's go to the phone lines. Michael, who's in Auburn, Alabama. What's going on, Michael? Hey, how you doing?

I'm doing good. How are you? I'm okay. I just got this problem with an ex-wife. Uh-oh. Tell us about it. She's wanting money every day. And we've been divorced over 10 years.

And she's remarried, but she's got a husband that lays up on the couch. It won't work. And so she's coming to you for money? Yeah, every day she's wanting money to get cigarettes, pay her bills. Are you remarried? No. Hey, I know why she's doing this. You know why she's doing this you know why i'm trying to figure this out i figured it out for you she's doing this because you keep giving it to her and you have been for a decade

even though you went to court and dissolved your marriage Why are you still giving her money 10 years later after she left you and remarried somebody else? I had kids and they're over 18 now. And I was just trying to figure out if I need to part ways or whatever. Are you still in love with her? I care about her, but, you know, she chose another man over me, you know?

That's exactly right. And I don't, I don't, I'm, I'm, my heart's breaking for you, man, because I can tell you still care about her. You want her to be successful. She's the mother of your kids, and I get that.

But what you just said is important. She chose somebody else over you she left you she divorced you she married somebody else and this is the bed that she chose for herself and she's got to sleep in it she's got to make up that bed and the only way to move forward is you've got to stop writing checks you've got to say

the ATM is closed you will not get another penny from me ever again and then she's going to have to look at her husband who's laid up on a couch and they're going to have to figure that one out. How does that sound? I understand that. Can you do that?

I'm going to have to do that. Let me ask you, this new spouse that your ex-wife has, is she safe over there? Is she fine over there? Or is it just she needs money for cigarettes? Is there more to it? Well, he goes to work and then he quits work for a while.

And then he goes to work and quits work for a while. When he quits work, they get in a real bad struggle. And she calls me to help. So, Michael, I'm going to tell you something that's hard to hear. You shouldn't know about their marriage struggles. It's inappropriate for her to be telling you about that. That's between her and him. And when she starts to tell you about her about him

and what he's not doing that's when you have to say whoa whoa stop stop stop I have no interest in hearing about your new husband none zero oh you just don't care about no no no that's between y'all two she made comments to other people that

all she gotta to do is holler for me and i'll give her money and she it's because you do it's true it's the truth it's 100 the truth yeah so you have to choose to keep your dignity and to say i'm no longer doing that period a lot of reason i do it because I feel sorry for him. I know. I know, and you're a good man. But enough is enough is enough is enough. Fair? Fair?

And plus, you know, my daughter lives with her. Your daughter's an adult. I don't want her. How old's the daughter? 18? She's 28. Oh. Brother.

Listen. Michael, stop giving them all money. All of them. They're never going to grow up. That's what my daughter's doing without food, you know. No, your daughter's choosing that. What's keeping her from getting a job? My daughter works.

Then she should have food. Yes. Yeah. She needs to move out from her mama's house. It's a toxic situation. She needs to get her own place. I'm going to go out on a limb and say, you probably need a change of scenery as well, Michael.

I'm just hearing this, and I'm a fly on the wall. This sounds like a stew that's been just sitting, simmering for a long time and you just need to get out of it like it's just a just a chain of events that just continue just that cycle over and over and over and my guess is you probably need to change the scenery your daughter probably needs a change of scenery because that... The reason my daughter's there is because her mama is real sick. And she's there to help her.

Well, part of helping is making sure that there's food. Part of helping is making sure... Like a fireman doesn't run into a burning building without the proper gear and equipment. Right? Similarly, you can't call it help and at the same time

not be truly helping or helping a tiny little bit but then calling around all it's just it's one big mess after another after another after another and then your daughter's going to look up she's going to have lived in this house she going to be 36 years old when her mom finally passes away. And this man who's laid on the couch is going to take the house from her. I understand. Right? It's just a big mess

that everyone's got to step away from. I'm not saying walk away from a sick mama, but I'm saying what y'all are doing, what your daughter's doing is not helping. You giving money for cigarettes to a very, very sick woman who's so sick that her adult daughter has to come in and live with her is not helping.

I'm just saying that because I love you. Not because I'm trying to be mean. Well, I understand. I'm just trying to help. I say you're a good man. You're a good man. I think the greatest gift you could give everybody right now

is to be very clear and say, I've been helping for a long, long time, and I've got to take care of myself. I've got to take care of my future. I've got to take care of my home. And so as of effective today, the ATM is closed, and I'm not giving anybody any more money.

I love you all. And they're going to bang on your door. They're going to hate you. They're going to write you mean messages. They're going to yell at you because that's worked in the past, and it's not going to work this time. Do you have money, Michael, to get? I mean, do you even have?

Not that much. Not that much. Yeah. I struggle sometimes. Yeah. Yeah struggle sometimes. Yeah, exactly. If you're struggling, you definitely don't have it to give. Yeah.

And your best, like John said, getting yourself together and getting your life together is the best thing you're going to be able to do because no one's going to take care of you. So what's going to happen when you're, you know, get older and you're not working anymore? You've got to make sure that you're set up financially as well. Yes. Yeah. We got you, brother. Draw some boundaries and say no more. Changes to make. That's hard. That kind of stuff, John,

this magnetic, it has like a magnetic force that pulls you back when you try to get out of it. It's like all the ingredients in a pot and after a couple of days of just simmering, all the ingredients are just one big goo, right? Yeah.

Got to jump out of the pot. It's not easy to do, but you can do it. Thanks for listening. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I am Jade Warshaw, your co-host today.

Dr. John Deloney is sitting to my right. We're taking your calls all afternoon about your life, your money. So give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225, and we'll chop it up with you. Call about your life. Call about your money. Call about your relationships. This show is yours, and we are happy that you're here with

us so let's go straight to the phone lines kyle in jackson mississippi what's going on kyle i'm going to jackson hey jay dr john how's it going guys going good how can we help uh yes so uh just to kind of give you a brief overview what i got going on, currently just in a situation that I'm trying to figure my way out of. I'll kind of tell you what prompted it. My wife and I are actually expecting our first baby here in a few weeks, and it's just got me thinking. You know, it's time for a legitimate change. I'm ready to do it.

But I'm just trying to get some traction traction and I can't seem to do that. So that's where I'm at. And, you know, I'm excited, but I'm, you know, getting pretty nervous, pretty scared. And it's coming pretty quick. What, tell me about the, your financial situation that's making you nervous and scared and yeah so um all together um just quick math in my head um roughly about 400k that's including a mortgage um spread out i'm pretty much a kosher child of stupid but um 72 and student loans that's between my wife and I. The majority of that is mine, about 64. Two car loans. How much are those? One's 18, one's 29.

Okay. What else? Roughly 15K across multiple credit cards. And then just being conservative and paying another $1,500 medical and miscellaneous. Okay. I think something that'll help is kind of separating your mortgage debt from everything else because when you tell yourself, I've got $400,000 of debt, that feels a lot more overwhelming with the mortgage included in that. And the truth of the matter is right now, your only assignment is to pay off the non-mortgage debt. So it's not cheating to kind of cut that part off and put it, you know, put it aside for later. So without that, you know, this goes down

significantly. Let me just quickly in my head. So, I mean, you've got $160,000 of debt. Does that feel right? Yeah, it sounds roughly right. Yep. Okay. So how much income are you bringing in? $110,000 plus bonuses. I get about $6,500 a month or so. I haven't gotten my first bonus, but we're on track to about $1,500 a month or so. I haven't gotten my first bonus, but we're on track to about $1,500 next month. Okay. So roughly you bring home anywhere between $6,500 to $8,000 a month with bonuses. Is that fair? I would say $6,500 is fair. Okay. That's fair. And is this just your income or your wife's working too? I know you said she's pregnant, but does she normally work?

She's a homemaker slash babysitter. So she was contributing about $700 a month or so, but that's about to stop. Okay. So this will be your first child. Sorry, I'm asking a lot of questions because I want to get my head around it. So she has this first first child do you think that is the plan that she'll go back to doing what she was doing before or pick up any sort of work or is the idea that she'll probably you know take home take care of the baby and not do any financial the intent is to stay home and take care of the baby to avoid um child care um potentially going back to doing What she was doing eventually

I don't know what postpartum And what that's going to look like The intent right now is to avoid childcare costs And have her stay home With the baby Okay so What that's telling me Is

Because when I think about childcare I'm thinking out loud because when I think about child care, I'm just I'm thinking out loud here. When I think about child care, you pay around twelve to thirteen hundred dollars per kid. But for an infant, it's more expensive. So maybe you're paying fourteen or fifteen hundred a month. If you're doing, you know, a mid-level to nicer child care. Do we feel like she here's the way I kind of think about that. I'm like, is she able to make $1,500 or more a month? Could she bring in, is she able to bring in $3,000 a month? Because if she is, that kind of answers your question. That means, yeah, she can work and we can have child care. I'm not saying that, you know, you have to do it immediately. But I do think that in this equation, as much money coming in as possible is necessary. And I also think this

is the hard part of this equation. There's going to be some things that you don't like about it. Like, I don't think there's any getting around. Something's going to have to take place here that nobody likes, whether it's you picking up a second job because then the negative side to that is oh i won't be around the baby as much and then your wife's going to be like hey you're never here so there no matter how you slice this there's going to be a trade that takes place and it's not going to be comfortable so i do want to say that out of the gate and you and your wife can decide what that trade is um and when it takes. But my screen says that you're on the path to bankruptcy. So what I want to make sure that you know is I don't think that you're on the path to

bankruptcy. I think you just have some really difficult decisions that you're going to have to make with your money and the way your lifestyle is moving forward. Fair enough? Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. I'm willing to pick up a second job if I need to. I'm just trying to get my head above water

right now and figure it out. So the tactical side to this, so let's talk tactics. Tactical side is, do you have a budget? Are you working on a budget right now? I just started trying to give it a really good go this past week, and I don't know that it's in the best place.

I probably need to see how it comes out. I did attempt to put my best foot forward on it and try it out, but I don't know how well that is right now. Okay, well, finish it because i think sometimes we start on it and we go get busy with something else prioritize this this weekend you got to get this budget set with your wife together you guys decide on the amounts and first things first if you've never been on a budget before and this is for anybody listening your first job is just to figure out can you live on your income? Like don't make any big sweeping changes.

Just be like, can I live on a budget? Can I make, can I write down a realistic number for groceries? Can I write down a realistic number that I think we spend? And can I just stick to it? Like that's for so many people, they quickly go to, I'm going to live on nothing. And it's like, I can't stick to this. So just get in a rhythm of you guys sticking to whatever number you put. Don't get too crazy. And we don't use credit cards. We were just living on our income. And then when you start feeling your footing with that,

that's when you start going, okay, but now I can cut down groceries and I can cut back on takeout and I can cut back on, you know, whatever those different care categories are. And that's what that looks like. And then I want you to really start playing out and playing through some numbers and seeing what would it look like if our family lived on 80,000 instead of 110,000. And then I want you to start running the numbers

on what would it look like if you found a job where you could make $2,000 extra a month. And I really want you to pull all of these concepts out of the air and put them down on paper and start working your way backwards and going, okay, what does it look like to get $2,000 extra a month? What does it look like for us to live on this number of a budget? And that's how you put this in real life. This is The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Thanks for listening. Hey, if you love this show, make sure that you like, subscribe, and share it with the people around you.

That would help us out big time. Obviously, it kicks the show up in the algorithms. And you're just sharing a really awesome show with the people around you, which that is a win-win. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. This is Dr. John Deloney taking your calls all afternoon. So give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. And we would

be happy to give you our opinion on what's going on in your life. So we'll do just that. We got Justin in Seattle, Washington. What's going on? Justin. Yeah. How's it going? I got a question for you. So I rent a house below market value, a four bedroom house for about $1,000 a month. And I'm looking at, is it worth it for me to pursue buying a house knowing that the mortgage is going to be twice as much? I guess that would be the big question. Should I pursue buying a house?

I have very little debt, and I just got a new job with a little more money. And I just got married two years ago and my wife wants a house but I'm not sure if that's I'm just like I'm worried about the risk I guess how old are you or is there a risk of just running I'm 45 years old 45 I mean well when you when you buy you're taking away some of the risk because for most of us the largest line item on our budget is our home whether we rent or buy and so when we rent though that becomes a variable cost right we have the ability for rent to go up we have the ability for our lease to break and then we have to go someplace else whereas when we buy um it's just kind of a fixed savings account and we're putting money

into it and we're building equity in that and it becomes an asset for us and it's fixed. So that kind of creates a stability in our life. So to that point, I would say most folks, really everybody should aspire to home ownership. But the real question for you right now is, is now the time to buy? And that's really the question that most people, including yourself, need to be asking themselves. It's not necessarily is renting better than buying. It's is now a good time for me to buy. Is that fair enough? Yeah, I mean, I do.

I've went through a divorce, so I don't have very much in retirement. I do pay quite a bit in child support. So that's the other thing is like, should I just be holding my horses and kind of waiting for the interest rates to go down or, or, I mean, I feel like I've been waiting forever. I owned a house when I was married a long time ago, but I just, I'm now I'm like to the point where I kind of got out of that and I'm just kind of, I have a little bit from when I got married, my wife had some debt that we're paying off, um, maybe about $25,000 or so. But, uh, um, I just feel like I'm just trying to,

I don't know. I'm nervous to do it. I know. I guess I get the point that I could, that my rent could go up, but I've been with the same landlord for 12 years and he's, I don't know, I guess he could sell the house or something like that. But I feel like I'm pretty comfortable where I'm at. But maybe that's just me being a little naive as well. Well, I mean, kind of going back to our initial conversation, there is value in stabilizing your lifestyle. And I think as long as you rent, there is more in stabilizing your lifestyle. And I think as long as you rent, there is more perceived stability than actual stability. So to your wife's point, she's the one that wants to buy. So let's talk about what it might look like for you to get to that point.

And I would say the first thing is I would want to be completely debt free. So I'd pay off this debt that you have. It sounds like it's only $25,000. How quickly could you have that paid off? I would say within a year or two. Okay, so one to two years? She owns her own company that is kind of teetering back and forth. It's doing okay, and sometimes it doesn't do very well. And when I have a regular job where I make a decent amount of money, I make about $135,000.

And then bonuses can get it up there a little higher. What does she make on an average month? I would say on an average month, right now she's breaking even. And with her business, maybe she'll make about three, three or four thousand dollars a month sometimes and then sometimes she'll just be flat. How long has she been doing it like that? She's been doing that for, I would say she's been doing it for before we got married, so maybe five, six years now. All right, I would challenge challenge that i think there's a point where a business is just a really great hobby and it's great when it brings in money um but i'd want to

get to the point after five years where the income is consistent and i can say i'm earning this money and this is what i'm taking in um that being said and i'd want to see that especially with you guys thinking about buying a house so my keys to this would be paying off the debt. Let's save up three to six months of expenses. In this case, I'd probably say six months of expenses because her income isn't as solid as I'd like for it to be. And then I'd start saving up for a down payment. I'd start looking in your area and saying, OK, like what's feasible for us? What can we get into? And I wouldn't worry.

I mean, I say this very lightly because interest rates are real and what it takes to buy a house right now is not easy. And so this could be a long journey for you guys saving up to actually get something that you would wanna buy. And I think that's okay. But I do think in this case, home ownership,

we just know that it's a key component to wealth building. 67% of millionaires have paid for residences. So I do think that it's something that you should consider and should start working towards. John, what do you think? Yeah. Justin, can I use your situation as just a conversation on a larger, a bigger puzzle piece across the country.

Is that cool? Yeah. So Dave in particular has taken, and I guess all of us by proxy have taken a lot of hits recently and I'm seeing it on social media. I'm seeing it everywhere that we're out of touch, that we don't care about people, that we want people to not spend money

or ideas or impractical, they don't work. And so when Jade tells somebody who's thinking about buying a home, hey, don't owe anybody any money first. And make sure you've got some money to put down enough that you can get in that house and that you could get out of it if you had to, that you can get into that house and you're not going to immediately be underwater in a huge asset like that. When we tell people 25% of your take-home pay, what we get back is, well, that's just unreasonable

because houses have doubled. And here's the thing. I bought a house in 2020, right at the beginning, before it got bananas. And I'm shopping for a house right now. It's mostly doubled it is madness it's heartbreaking and i dave pays me super obnoxiously well and math doesn't care about my feelings and what does that mean for me and my family there are neighborhoods in nashville that we would have moved in with our same income and our same cash situation in 2020

that we're not doing right now. We can't because we can't afford it. I've got friends across the country that want to move to this state to keep doing this job, to live in this town. And they simply can't do it because the matrix of, I want this job, I want to be in this town, and I want this

home, one of those or two of those have to give. And so the big enemy here is how expensive homes are. The big enemy here is how everyone says it's okay to borrow a whole bunch of money and spread yourself out. And the heartbreaking part for me and for Jade, for Dave, for George, for Ken, for all of us is we sit with hurting people on the other side of this thing when it goes and make no mistake it will go again it will go again and so we love people we want people to buy the nicest house you can afford for you and your family i want everyone to do the job they want in the city they want in the house they want right now housing is out of control it's so expensive and that may mean that for most people, you're going to have to rent for a while.

And is it ideal? Nope. Is it reality? Yes. Or you're going to have to move to a new state. You're going to have to move to a new town. You're going to have to take on a second or third or fourth job or whatever the thing may be. But math doesn't care what neighborhood I want to live in.

Math doesn't care what school I want to live in. Math doesn't care what school I want to send my kid to. Math says, if you don't have money in the bank, math says, if you go into your home underwater, it's going to bite you and it's going to cost you everything. And by the way, some super, super rich person's going to come buy that house from pennies on the dollar after I lose it. So it's heartbreaking, brother. But if you can't afford it, don't get into it. But it is something worthy to build towards. Housing is out of control expensive. It's just reality. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm your host jade warshaw this is dr john deloney to my right we're taking your calls all afternoon the number is triple eight eight two five five two two five

give us a call let's go straight to the phone line shall we john we shall let's talk to matt in pittsburgh pa what's going on matt Matt? Hey, I am 23 years old, and I am $157,000 in student loan debt. Yikes! I just don't know how to get out of it. What'd you study, brother? I was originally

engineering, but switched to biochemistry, and therefore lost my academic scholarship, and now I'm this far in debt. What do you do for a living now? I work as a medical lab tech at a hospital here in Pittsburgh. What are you earning?

I'm sorry? What are you earning? Take-home is about $2,600 a month. Okay. Do you have any other debt uh no okay um what's your living situation uh i'm currently running an apartment with uh roommate roommates okay so what are you paying in rent every month uh With utilities, $550. $550, okay, good.

Okay, good news is your rent is in a good spot. What else do you have? No car payment, nothing like that, right? No. Okay, so the good news is you don't have a lot of other expenses that are pulling away from your ability to pay this debt off. You know, so many people find themselves and I just kind of want to paint this picture for you because it'll make you a little bit more grateful because so many people find themselves in this

situation where it's like, hey, I have $157,000 of debt, but I'm also married with kids and a mortgage and credit card debt and card notes. So it's really hard to make that traction because all of their money is just going away every single month. The good news is you've got at least half of your income should be at your disposal. Is that fair enough? Yeah, with the minimum payments and the rent, I don't have much wiggle room, like with groceries and gas and everything. What are you spending on groceries and gas for a single guy?

Groceries, I can get my bill to like 200 bucks a month. And then gas, probably about, I want to say like 250 a month. Okay. And then does your job take out insurance and everything like that? Do you have that benefit? Yeah. Okay. So what else are you, what's another big expenditure that you have going out every month? It's just the minimum payments for the student loans.

Okay. So they're all broken up. How many are there? Well, there's four private and the federal loan. all broken up. How many are there? There's four private and the federal loan. I'm paying $1,212 every month towards the

private loan and about $250 for the federal. Jade, the big elephant in the room here is I don't see a possible way forward with him only making $31,000 a year. Yeah, he's got to get his income up. Bro, what's your end goal here? You quit being an engineer to get a biochem degree.

You're obviously a smart young man. What's the goal here? Well, my problem is that I feel kind of stuck where I am in my job right now because I'd have to go get a further degree in order to move up. What I mean is like you're better off right now going to try to get a manager's job

at McDonald's or an assistant manager at Home Depot and I know it won't have the prestige of going into a hospital and being a lab tech but bro you are broke and I'm saying that because I love you. I mean it won't have the prestige of going into a hospital and being a lab tech, but, bro, you are broke. And I'm saying that because I love you. Yeah.

Right? I mean, you can't eat. $200, I mean, that's – I went to Chick-fil-A the other day, and it was like $19. I mean, it's out of this world expensive to exist. You just can't do that on 31. So whatever you want to do down the road, man, I'm all for you. I want you to go to med school if that's what you want to do or PA school or chem school if you can get a master's in chemistry. Whatever it is, I'm all for it.

But right now, you can't eat, dude. And that means you're going to have to break some hearts and everyone's going to be like, oh, my gosh, you got these degrees and they didn't. Yeah, right now I've got to go make a bunch of money. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense.

You're calling us. I wish I could just be like all right jade and i we bestow it upon you we i mean you just got to work and go earn that money and 31,000 annually is a big math problem it's a t that's you're digging a swimming pool with a spoon brother yeah makes sense what would that look like i real talk, what does that look like for you? Is this just a matter of applying for different jobs? Did you kind of apply for one, you got it, and that was good enough? Well, yeah, I was applying for, because I graduated in December of 22, and I was applying for about six months, and I was working that entire time too.

But yeah, I finally got this job in June of last year and I've still been looking for other stuff that pays higher but it's yeah I can't can you can you work four hours before your shift um from uh in shipping and then after you get off your shift can you work another four hours as an orderly i know those are two positions that are hard to find in hospitals or can you go over and work in the gift shop or in the like i'm just trying to say i understand that draw to be in that ecosystem you worked hard to get in there this is what you're passionate about it just can't it's not paying the bills and so the other alternative is i'm going to cobble together

a couple of two or three jobs inside this system. And by the way, in five years, when you've earned some more money and paid this stuff off, you'll know how a hospital works, right? And that will set you up for whatever you want to do next. But there's not a way that you're going to get through this without a lot of pain and a lot of sacrifice, either going to work McDonald's um and then working at Subway at night and then loading Bosca's at Walmart overnight or um doing a whole bunch of jobs at the hospital yeah your goal right now should be to 3x this yeah 3x okay and people are going to say oh just go make $90,000 no we know there's not know they're not handing out $90,000 jobs.

This means you're just going to work seven days a week, 12 hours a day for a couple of years. Piecing together some jobs. Okay. Because think about it. Right now, in your situation right now, you're paying off $13,000, $14,000 a year. Maybe.

The way you're going, that's maybe what you get. So if you two exit, now you're paying off $30,000 a year on the way you're going. Maybe that's maybe what you get. So if you, if you two exit, now you're paying off $30,000 a year. And if you three exit, now you're paying off $45,000 a year. So $60,000 a year. So let's,

that's, that's where we're getting to. And it's going to be a journey, but I think you can do this. I don't want this to take you mess around and take you seven years to pay this off. Yeah. And what's annoying for you my friend is jade and i both had this about this much or more and both of us worked a whole bunch of jobs did a bunch of wild things and missed a lot of fun times with our families and our friends for an extended number of years to get this stuff

knocked out so we've been there we know it's the It is. And it's what's got to happen. Yeah. How are you feeling? I feel like, you know, I think sometimes people call in and they're kind of hoping that we can, you know, pull out that big red button that kind of like gives them the free pass. Like, I don't know. I feel like we just loaded you up. How are you feeling yeah it's uh just kind of relieving to like hear somebody else say uh get into another field or like go get a different job because yeah it's it's stressful to like to put all that time and work and realize like this isn't going to be able to pay off anything listen i think you're finding the reality in the dream that we all believed. You know, so many of us, we went into college with that thought of, listen, my degree is going to ROI.

Like, I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to go out and get a job and I'll be able to pay for it. Lickety split. And so many of us, you're not alone when you wake up and realize, oh my gosh, and you feel just so disenchanted by the whole system and realize this might be four or five years of your life spent kind of making up for it. And that's a very real feeling. But the hopeful part of it is you're definitely not alone. And there are millions of people who have walked through this before you and they can verify that the pathway is clear and it actually does work. If you can get your income up, if you can get on a budget and you can start making those payments using the debt snowball. So that's the hopeful side of this, but it doesn't make it any more easy, John. I like your idea, James. We got to get a red

button and once a year we just hit it and pay off somebody's everything. That would be awesome. That is amazing. All right, James, get your bank account ready because it's going to take a lot of money. This is The Ramsey Show. You were supposed to pop in there, James, and say something. I'm speechless. This is The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw, your co-host today. I'm joined by Dr. John Deloney, and we are taking your calls all afternoon long, so give us a call. We'd love it. The number is 888-825-5225. Call in. Hold on, hold on. We're just talking off air, and I think it's fair to have this conversation. Okay.

It's kind of a continuation of when we had earlier. I think it's important just to call out homes are outrageously expensive. Oh yeah. The last I looked and again, don't hold me to this statistic, but it's the lowest inventory is supply and demand. There's just none of houses. Yes.

And some of these big wall street firms are coming in, just buying them, writing checks for them and buying up neighborhood. Like there's, there's new competition on the ground that has never existed before. That's right. Housing has just gotten insanely expensive. And that means for the young couple who's 26 and 27,

and she's a teacher and he's a youth minister. She is a nurse practitioner. He is trying to get a small business going. Y'all are going to be renting for a long time. 100%. That's not because people hate you. It's because to get into a house, it's half a million dollars on the low end. Yeah. To get in a dream home or a really

nice place. It used to be 500. Now it's a million dollars. It's just gotten bananas, right? All across the country. I mean, I think now more than ever, you know, we've been, we're part of the debt free message. Like we're always telling folks to get debt-free. And I think now more than ever, it's so important if you're at the cusp, right? Like you're just starting out, you're considering student loans, or you're talking to your kids about college. It is so, so, so important for those of us who got in debt, you know, shoulda, coulda, woulda, like we're here now. But for everybody else who's right at that cusp, it's more important than ever because this journey that you're talking about, John, to home ownership is longer. It might take you seven years. It might take you however long to get there. You definitely don't need to make it longer by having to pay off debt, right? So what I'm kind of likening that to is when Sam and I,

when we first started out, of course, we had a bunch of debt. It took us seven and a half years to pay off that debt once we realized, hey, we need to pay it off. So really, we were nine years in to marriage by the time our debt was paid off. And we rented for 10 years because we were like, we're not going to buy a house when we still have this debt. Our debt was our mortgage, right? So I know that feeling to say, say hey you're not going to buy a house for 10 years but can we call this out this is important i was at you and sam's house like

there was my wife and i there's a whole group of us over there yeah yeah for a holiday party yeah you have two little kids yep your house is extraordinary it's beautiful thank you right it's amazing and i think it's hard when you're you're 32 it's hard when you're 26 it's beautiful thank you right it's amazing and i think it's hard when you're you're 32 it's hard when you're 26 it's hard when you're 40 and the math isn't adding up to not be able to just exhale and see the other side is if you'll wait and do it right yeah there's a lot of laughter in that home there wasn't a lot of angst that's right there's a lot of joy there's a lot of fun there's a lot of i wonder what other house we could get right it's a different ethos than i borrowed half of the one percent down because i got this special loan program and from my brother and then my this other guy and then i got a bonus from my work and

i was able to get into this place nobody moved nobody breathed yeah you don't that's not that home owns you you don't own that home right it's just a different way. But it's thinking through like because I was there, too. I mean, just I remember walking around being like, I'll never have a family. I'm never going to have a home for our family. I'm always going to be this like begging the place where I work for help. And it's just different now. Well, on the other side of it. The temptation, I think, John, is when you are in that headspace of like, is this ever going to happen?

Like feasibly, could this ever happen? You start and I think that's the way a lot of people feel right now is the way these prices are and the way my income is and what it takes to even get a $400,000 house or $300,000 house is astronomical. And so you start to feel like the gap getting wider and wider. And if you start feeling hopeless hopeless then the reaction is well who cares like whatever i'm just gonna live my life and next thing i know i'm seeing you out at applebee's and at chili's and you're buying up the bar and i'm like listen you're just making it worse don't don't lose hope because when you lose hope it's like you just widen the gap even further. Or you make quick, unthought through decisions when you feel hopeless, right?

Yeah. And that's when you just go by the house. That's right. And then in seven years, when there's a market correction and your adjustable rate mortgage goes way up, a really, really wealthy person is gonna buy it from you from the bank

at pennies on the dollar. And you just help that person get even richer than they already are right yeah because you just yeah and it's heartbreaking to me and sometimes it's one of those things like people ask me in interviews like what would you tell 22 year old you and i just laugh and go nothing because that guy was an idiot he wouldn't listen and so um i feel like sometimes we're just talking to a wall because i remember being 27 and thinking this is never going to happen. Yeah.

And that's just simply because I didn't know what it was going to be like. Yeah. You know. The time's going to pass. Right. I mean, I keep saying, I mean, I feel like I'm on repeat saying that the time's going to pass anyway. Put the work in.

Put the work in. It makes me think of that scripture. Dave quotes it all the time. Hope deferred makes the heart sick. And a lot of us, our heart is sick because we're like, man, I had this hope, but it feels like it's never going to happen. But if you can just strike up that desire, because it says when desire comes, it's a tree of life.

So if you can have enough desire to go, I'm going to see this through. I don't exactly know what the path looks like. I'm just going to keep being smart with money. There's something to be said for staying the course. I'm going to keep budgeting. I'm going to keep being smart with money. There's something to be said for staying the course. I'm going to keep budgeting. I'm going to keep being smart with money. I'm going to keep setting money aside. And you will look up and you will have a nice stack of money that you've saved up.

Who knows how long it's going to take, but you will look up and what used to be a mountain turns into a hill and what used to be a hill turns into a little, you know, just a little swoop. And you might be in a different state. You might have different friends in your house. That's right. You might have a friends in your house. That's right. You might have a different job. When I was 27, YouTube didn't exist.

Podcast wasn't a thing. That's right, John. And so who knows what's coming down the way. Exactly. Just take the next right step. And that's such a good point. I'm going to belabor this a little bit longer because I do think this is probably helping someone.

Who among us can look 10 years ago and say, I knew exactly where I was going to be 10 years later? No one. Like, you don't know where, you can guess and you can pontificate about it and say, well, in seven years, I will be here and I'll have this job and I'll live over here with this many kids.

But you truly don't know. And so- Especially now, if you're seeing the AI stuff coming out in our field, like it's all going to be different in seven years, man. I mean, but the point is, don't know and so especially now what's if you're seeing the ai stuff coming out in our field like it's all going to be different in seven years man i mean but the point is the point is you know you make these plans but you don't know what's on the other side of time and all you can do is be consistent and do the things that you know to do don't grow weary and well doing because at the

right time you'll reap a harvest of blessing that That's really what it is. And that's really what we're getting to is just don't give up. Keep going. We know it's hard. We acknowledge it's difficult. I look at the numbers and sometimes I'm like, just that, like, I don't know what to tell you. It's tough. You just got to be consistent. There's nothing to say, but it's similar to the grief is similar to sitting with somebody who's just lost a loved one. Yeah. You had a dream. You had a dream that you were going to drive a car that you felt safe in, that you were going to live in a nice home. And it was going to look like the HGTV generation homes that you grew up watching.

Right. You had this picture of what your life was going to be. And now it's different. And so I'll sit with you. It's the worst. Yeah. But it doesn't change the math. Just as similar as I've told people who have lost a child or a parent or a loved one. It's different. And so I'll sit with you. It's the worst. Yeah. But it doesn't change the math.

Just as similar as I've told people who have lost a child or a parent or a loved one. They're gone. And so now what are we going to do? Right? It's that heartbreaking month. Here was this dream. I was going to be of this and this. It's gone.

And because this is, we're looking at the numbers. The numbers are what the numbers are. The interest rates are bananas. The houses are expensive. There's very few of them that are out there. And if there is a good one at a reasonable price, it's war. I'm in that war right now, right? And so it just is what it is what it is.

I'm not going to give my integrity over. I'm not going to give over my frustration. I'm not going to make a rash decision that puts my family at risk. I'm going to choose and own reality and this is it. And then I'm going to make the next right step I can given that set of truth. Yeah. I love that. I keep thinking like tactically, we're feeling this, what can we do? And it just came in my mind. I love the social media handles that focus on everybody's home is not aesthetic. Everybody's life is not aesthetic., I love the social media handles that focus on everybody's home is not aesthetic. Everybody's life is not aesthetic. And I love following those accounts because it makes you realize, okay, like I can be content where I am. Like everybody's cabinets aren't bright white with,

you know, white marble countertops. For Micah won't kill you. Exactly. Exactly. And I'm like, at the very least, one of the things we can start doing is bringing more reality into our daily life and just finding ways to be content with where we're at and making sure that we're not comparing our current state with someone else's social media highlight real estate. Because if that's what you're reaching for, you are going to come up short every single time. Let's be honest about that.

So anyway, John, this has been great chopping it up with you. Listen, I hope that conversation was helpful for you. And I'm so grateful that you're here. We're going to do our best to help guide you guys through this because it's not easy. The mortgage market is not easy right now. Thanks for hanging with us. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions it's the ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships i'm your host jade warshaw your other host today is dr john deloney he is the author of the author of building a non-anxious life and uh we're your host today so give us a call the number is 888-825-5225 uh dr john deloney let's just take a moment and also talk about what your show is doing

it's pretty wild times man bananas i looked up and you were number one in your category yeah it was pretty wild we had a wild week you know hit number one in the health and wellness and then we hit number four on the on the big boy chart so it's pretty cool. We had a wild week. We hit number one in the health and wellness, and then we hit number four on the big boy chart. So it's pretty cool. Like number four of all. Of all, yeah. It was a fun week, man. It was fun.

That's crazy. I don't like the fact that you're very nonchalant about this right now. You're like too humble. I need you to be like, heck yeah. Like I need you to like go bananas. It's because as soon as I go bananas, I walk in my front door, and my daughter's like, can I have a snack? And I'm like, like yes you can have a snack and my son's like why did you yeah so it is it's it's awesome it's cool and uh yeah it's pretty neat thing well I will we have a pretty pretty amazing

team that uh teaches me how to do all that stuff so it's cool that's awesome well I'll go Hulk status for you because I think it's pretty pretty's awesome well i'll go hulk status for you because i think it's pretty pretty awesome and if it wasn't for the team i'd be sitting in the basement still um mumbling into a microphone telling stories and so they they pick the calls they edit these shows they take out my and they make it sound right. They do the music. That's true. They master it. They mix it.

I mean, without them, this doesn't exist. I feel that. It doesn't exist. Yeah, I mean, clearly even on this show, there's a whole booth of people who are way better at their jobs

than we are at ours. James isn't, but everybody else is pretty good. Actually, James is crushing. It's that Austin guy over there that, man. Oh my goodness. Well, let's take it to the phone lines. Let's take a call from Miles who's in Boise, Idaho. What's going on, Miles?

Hello. Thank you both for taking my call. You're welcome. I've owned a business now for about three years. I'm 35 years old and I have three boys. Oldest is seven, youngest is two. And starting the business plus, you know, living the typical American way, I found it, I found myself now in $97,000 in debt. And right now I pay myself about $72,000 a year. And I'm just, I'm at a point where I feel like it's hard. I'm a single operator LLC. And so it's hard to manage the debt and everything else I got going on. That $97,000 doesn't include $395,000 on a mortgage. And you know, you guys just talked about the housing

market was perfect because the position I'm in right now is I'm like, should I sell my house to do like a debt reset? Um, we have, we have about 205,000 in equity. Um, but that puts me in the housing market either, you know, in seven years or, you know, paying outrageous prices like we were talking about earlier. And, uh, you talk to some people and they're like, Oh man, you're crazy. That's 2.875 interest. There's no way you shouldn't do that. And so just looking for an opinion from you guys. Well, when it comes to selling the house, unless you were in a situation where the payments were more than 25% of your take-home pay every

month, and if you're at 50%, then I would consider you know making that switch but if you're comfortably making your payments and you're in the market and you're in at a good interest rate and it technically is a home that you can afford then I wouldn't sell it so tell me more about your mortgage payment our mortgage payment is 11 11 35 or i'm sorry 21 35 21 35 yes and how much um how much every month are you pulling out uh in payroll for yourself um about 6 000 6 500 usually i guess 6 500 yes 65 and what about your wife? She stays at home. Okay. So, I mean, it's a little on the high side. It's a little on the high side, but at this point,

I still think that there's some areas that we can exhaust to get it back where it needs to be and start making some headway on the debt. In this market, I'm just really careful to tell people, go sell your house. That's not what I would do in this market i'm just really careful to tell people go sell your house like i that's not that's not what i would do in this situation i'm thinking okay seventy two thousand dollars there's room there's room to go up here and i would rather um explore that first before we do something massive unless you're sitting here telling me listen jade my wife is all in i'm all in we're tired of this thing like we want to like if you're telling me that me, listen, Jade, my wife is all in, I'm all in, we're tired of this thing. Like we want to re like, if you're telling me that, then we can talk about it. But right. Well, I think that I think for us, it's a matter of like, right now I'm breaking even. So even

getting to baby step one is difficult. And so then it's like, if I was able to sell the house and pay off even some of the stuff that the business carries, then I could, I could afford to pay myself more, you know, roughly about $2,000 more a month. And so I'm like, well, we could have, you know, money, money there, you know, the leftover equity, plus I could pay myself more. That seems real appealing, but I, man, I, I don't think we haven't rented a house since like 2011 or, you know, so it's like, I just don't know what it's like out there and there's some fear in that it's wild in the streets brother it's wild how many kids you have i have three three kids three boys okay one variable that you seem to have taken off the

table that may just have to come on come back on the table even if just for a short season is mama doing some kind of part-time work at home, full-time job, doing something. It's a must. I don't see a way forward. And it's not forever. It's for two years, for two and a half years, for 18 months. But it's either you give away your home

or you give away one of your core values, which is mom's going to stay with with the three boys and jade and i both also know like we pay for child care and babysitters it's in it's the only thing crazier than the housing price is the child care cost right right but if she has an opportunity to make some make a couple thousand bucks a month on top of child care and y'all could really get after this thing man you're talking you're talking 18 months 24 months of really miserable living to change everything right okay versus seven years of some hoping the guy doesn't raise the rent on you right oh man yeah that's good okay yeah i appreciate that and you'll shed tears. You'll be sad. You'll be heartbroken.

All those things. You'll have values. You've got a vision. And the math doesn't work. Right. Right. Yeah. I'm 100% with John.

I think that this is, it boils down to income and sacrifice. Your mortgage payment, you're probably feeling that because it's $500 more than it should be. And so you're feeling that every single month. And then you've got a wife that's staying home and you're a single income family in that way. And you've got the stress of you're self-employed. So it's like you got to get after it. So on the one hand, I think you're used to that pressure of if I don't go out and get it, it ain't happening. Right. So I think on one side of it, you understand what that means. And I think you just have to tap into that, that self-employed. I run my own business. I, in the words of Dave Ramsey, I go out, kill something and drag it home. I think that's the part that you're going to have to tap into and your wife too. And I think that if you guys can really link arms and do this for a season, you'll come out on the other side and you will be debt free. But to John's point, there is going to be a sacrifice that's unavoidable, 100% unavoidable in this case. So I wish I had something easier to say. The method is never easy. You've just got to go out and get after it. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. I am Jade Warshaw. He's Dr. John Deloney.

We're taking your calls all hour long. The number's 888-825-5225. Let's face it, John, taxes are confusing. And if you buy into some of the tax service ads out there, you'll believe that you'll never get a grasp on taxes and you shouldn't even try. Or maybe worse, they suck you into offers that won't help you win with money but we think that you guys deserve the truth so here's today's

tax tip uh number one a tax refund is not a bonus i know i know you don't want to hear it it's a refund it was your money all along and you earned that money. You loaned it to the government all year long, interest free. And man, they've made some great choices with your money. Oh man. Golly. Listen, I can go out, I can go on a limb on that. And I know, let me just talk to the folks that I know I'm talking to. I know you like getting that tax refund because that's your trip to Disney.

That is a down payment on a new car. Every year you figure that's, you know, that's the four wheeler. Like every year you're like, this is my little Christmas present. This is how we get our stuff in our house. But you could probably take that money and add it back, like change your withholding, add it back into your month to month budget and be far more productive with it. And if you wanted to save it, you could save that money in a high-yield savings account and actually get a rate of return on it. Just

saying. So if you get a big tax refund, sure, you can have fun with it and spend it on stuff you don't need. But the smart thing to do is to put it to work on your current baby step, like I was just saying, then adjust your paycheck withholdings so this doesn't happen again next year because that's money that you could use each month to pay off debt. So this doesn't happen again next year because that's money that you could use each month to pay off debt. So if you haven't already filed, make sure that you work with a service that you can trust. If your taxes are complicated, you need to get a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro on your side. And if you're comfortable filing your own taxes, like if you've just got, you know, you've got that nine to five job, both you and your husband, nobody's self-employed, whatever that is, you could probably do it yourself using

a Ramsey smart tax. That would be the way to go. It's got low upfront pricing with no hidden fees and no agendas. So if you want to get into this, go to ramseysolutions.com slash tax to see what's your best situation and get started. Again, it's ramseysolutions.com slash tax. John, have you done your taxes yet? I was just now texting the accountant over the phone during the break here. For the first couple of years, I did them on Ramsey Tax and it was amazing. Just walked me right through it. It's pretty simple. That's good. Mine are a little too complex for that one, so I have to work with a pro. That was a lo-fi flex if y'all didn't catch that um uh she actually runs businesses and is doing quite well for herself so are you john i just uh you're over here looking like

scrooge mcduck i'm over here trying to i'm like kiwi dewey or louis all right let's take a call we got caitlin from dallas texas what's going on, Caitlin? Hi. Hey, what's up? What up? Oh, nothing much. Just on the show trying to not let work find out that I'm not working. But I feel like this is a good cause. So are you like hiding out in a stall? Are you working from home?

I have a pretty hybrid position. So I kind of can set my own schedule in terms of where I'm at. So, yeah, I'm at home right now. This is why hybrid work is going away, Caitlin, right here. Well, she's changed her name, so no one, don't use your real name. No one will know you're here. There you go. All right, so what's up?

I'm using my lunch break. Let's do that. There you go. How can we help? So, I have probably a pretty basic question, but I just hear so many conflicting opinions and I would just love a more personalized approach to it, I guess. So my car was totaled and I got about $10,000 from the insurance settlement. So now I'm wondering, I guess how much car I can afford. I have about 15,000 in savings, but I would really not, I would like to not touch that because it's kind of my emergency fund slash down payment later on.

And so I'm kind of in between. And cars just, I don't really care about cars that much, but I have always wanted probably the most impractical car that y'all could think of a Volkswagen beetle convertible, which I hear all the stories about those, but I feel like if I'm going to have it at any point in my life, it would be most practical to have it while i'm young and don't have anyone any other obligation here's why you're awesome caitlin here's why you're awesome

you've called us and you've been like all right here's the deal i want to make like nine terrible decisions and all of my friends and family are telling me that those are dumb but will you two please sit with me and say it's all good all these choices are terrible caitlin if when it's said and done if when it's said and done you have ten thousand dollars you have ten thousand dollars and okay an emergency is i don't know when you total your car that's what your emergency fund is for near that's what. But if she wants to keep that for her down payment and she's got $10,000, I know a lot of great $10,000 cars out there

that you can buy in cash. I know, but this is important, Jade. Caitlin, hold on. I'll fight this fight for you. It has to be a Volkswagen convertible bug. Thank you. Yes. That starts with a rope pull.

How much do those cost? I'm sure he loves that one. We're all car people, but we also aren't into like children's cars masquerading as adult cars. That's the thing. What does a car cost? Like what year were you trying to buy?

What were you trying to spend on this? Based on my little bit of research that I've done so far, the best years are 2014 and after, because supposedly they got rid of a lot of the complications that they're kind of known for with those years. How much does the 2014 cost? It depends on mileage. And that's the thing I would want something with my previous car. I was planning on driving it until it just could not go any farther. I really didn't want to be totaled. But now that I have this opportunity, I guess, to get a new one. It's only an opportunity if you use it wisely.

It's not an opportunity. You did not win anything. You didn't win. You didn't win. I needed. Okay. It is not an opportunity. All insurance money is supposed to do is make you whole and they almost never do.

But that's the goal here. I know. That was why I really didn't want it to be, but you didn't win. So back to my question. If you get a 2014 bug, how many miles does it have to be for you to get it for $10,000 or $12, thousand dollars i have not been able to find one that meet those circumstances i think the more realistic um number would be closer to 20 and so that would include financing and no no no okay in no world would we tell you to take a loan out on a 2014 bottomed out depreciated asset.

Okay. Yes. Ever. Well, it could be 2018 too. Or whatever it is. Listen. You're amazing. Let me go back.

Let's go back because foundationally we have two different ways of thinking. You're still in a phase of life. How old are you? I'm 24. Okay. You're still in a phase. How long does your brain develop john i was about to say my son came in he's like dad listen listen i just want to jump off the roof

but listen it's going to be fine just listen dad i was like that's a terrible decision caitlin this is the same conversation just with you caitlin listen i i want to try to meet you where you're at but i want i what i hope to to get you to think about is just the philosophy behind it because if I just stand here and say it yeah don't finance a car you know pay cash for a car you're like okay Jade but why like there's always the but why there and what I want to get you to understand is that when we have a whole show here this show's been going on for 30 years millions and millions of people have called in. And do you want to know what one of the number one things that trips people up?

It's the biggest frustration in their budget. It's their car payment. Because you get- That's what I don't want to be. And you're headed there. Because you get in a car payment and you go, oh, I got it. I'll pay it off. And then by the time you paid off, you're like, oh, it's time to get another car or you total your car.

You're like, this is my opportunity. And you get in another car loan and then you drive that for a while. And because you feel guilty, you drive it into the ground. And then you're like, oh, this one's driven into the ground. I guess I got to get another car note.

And you start this cycle of, this is just what you do. This is how you pay for cars. And before you know it, you're 56 years old calling us, I'm in debt and my car payment is this and my student loans are this. And you create this cycle of debt.

So what I want you to understand is if you can start now to change the way you pay for things and you just decide, I draw a line in the sand, I don't borrow money. I'm not gonna give away my biggest wealth building tool,

which is my income every single month in payments. I'm gonna buy to give away my biggest wealth building tool, which is my income every single month in payments. I'm going to buy what I can afford. And what you can afford is a ten to twelve thousand dollar vehicle. Caitlin Carolla. This is the Ramsey show. This is the Ramsey show. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is Dr. John Deloney. Hey, give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. We'll talk about your life, your money, whatever it is that's going on in your life. We'd be happy to share our opinions with you. All right, let's go to the phone lines. We got Elizabeth in Santa Cruz, California. What's going on, Elizabeth? Hi, Jade and John. My question

is, does it make sense to accept a gift of $1 million from my in-laws to purchase a house? And I can dive into some more context. I'm happy to accept it on your behalf if you don't want it. $1 million. $1 million. Yeah, tell us more about it. I need to know more. My husband and I are in our late 20s.

Our income is $194,000 per year. We have no debt. And we would like to start a family in a couple years. I would anticipate our income dropping down to $120,000 if I reduce my hours to take care of a baby. If the gift didn't exist, we would just keep renting and saving for five more years while my husband finishes a PhD. And then we would move somewhere more affordable because we really don't ever anticipate being able to buy a house in Santa Cruz, California. However, yeah, my in-laws offered to give us this $1 million as a gift specifically to buy a house here in Santa Cruz.

And that money is coming from my husband's deceased grandmother's trust. I guess I'm just concerned that a $1 million house in our financial context is just a little out of proportion and it really would be nearly 100% of our net worth even though it's just a normal house like a three-bedroom nothing too crazy it's just that it's Santa Cruz right you're in a inflated market for sure my question is okay so this is from grandmother's trust was this money that was going to be his? They're just giving it to him early? Or it truly is a gift? It is theirs and it would be a gift.

Go ahead, John. What are the strings attached to this? Are they cool? It has to be in Santa Cruz. Yeah, if my in-laws said, hey, we would like to bless y'all with a million dollars to buy a house. My in-laws are amazing. There'd be no strings attached to it. I would gladly accept that gift.

Yeah. I know many who don't. Or like Jade said, I'm going to give you a million dollars to buy a house, but you'll buy it in the zip code. I tell you, you're going to buy it in. And if y'all ever get transferred or moved, that's our money that I'm going to give you a million dollars to buy a house, but you'll buy it in the zip code I tell you you're going to buy it in. And if y'all ever get transferred or moved, that's our money that we're going to extract from the sale of this.

You see what I'm saying? Yeah, I wonder about that. That's where it gets really, really messy. So I think it just depends. Right. How much of this trust is this million dollars? Is it a $50 million trust and this is just one of the millions? Yeah, I want to know that to be honest i'm not sure the full amount but i think it's less than a fifth less than a fifth

of it so it's a lot of money so nobody's starving here no okay let me ask you this let just level with us real quick how does that make you feel because I I to you know this is a little bit different from what John said but I I don't even know what that looks like and I feel like I would be so overwhelmed by a gift like that it might be hard to take how do you feel does it make you be like yes we hit the jackpot or are you like oh my my my like I don't know what do you think I am intimidated just imagining our net worth, ballooning and exploding like that overnight fills me with some anxiety. I would just want to take care of that money very well. Be a good steward of it.

Can I ask you where that anxiety comes from? Is it because those people, those people are the ones that have a million dollars not people like us right maybe maybe a little bit of a feeling of ill-gotten gain somehow well can i interject because there is part of this that and you can tell me at any point um elizabeth if you're like no that not what I mean. But like there is something to be said for when you walk step by step and you gain, you know, you're growing, you're gaining your net net worth little by little as opposed to it's like it's like it's like a toddler waking up and being 17. Right.

As opposed to, you know, we see folks who win the lottery and they're like, I just won the lottery and they're all excited. But then you talk to you know, we see folks who win the lottery and they're like, ah, I just won the lottery and they're all excited. But then you talk to them five, 10 years later and it's busted. So I could see where there's some anxiety there.

Why is this different from that, John? Well, I... Or is it different? I remember a great theologian once said that sometimes people can be as proud of the things that they don't have as people are of the things

that they do. So there can be an ethos. I not that kind of i would never spend that kind of money on a house i'd never buy that kind of car right and if like davis used this example if you have 200 million dollars in your net worth and you gave away 20 million dollars last year and you buy a $200,000 car that ratio is very similar sure right to somebody who gave somebody $20 and you buy a $200,000 car, that ratio is very similar. Sure. Right? To somebody who gave somebody $20, right? Or buy a $20 car. So all I have to say is if your identity is, I don't do stuff like that, then I would tell

you maybe check that. And there's a pretty extraordinary gift and an opportunity to set your family up in a community where you're going to have family, et cetera. And also, if the thought of going to bed every night here we are and by the way y'all make 190 grand y'all are clearly smart and doing great right but this idea that i i just can't go from zero to 75 that fast like that's that's too much for me to wrap my head around um then gently decline and say, no, thank you. What if you just said, hey, a million feels overwhelming.

Is there a way that we could, we've been trying to save for a down payment. Can you help us get to the down payment that we've been trying to afford? Maybe there's somewhere in the middle where you can have a great gift. Or maybe they buy the house and you rent from them. Oh no, I don't like that.

You don't like that? No. All right. I don't know why. I just, I feel like that's even more tangled because they're still renting yeah i i if you have a great relationship with them i wouldn't lose sleep over taking the money um but i'd want every everything clear like if we decide to sell this house is this a gift is this a loan is this a down payment i want all that in writing on all that clear i want everybody to have all hearts clear before we make a big

decision like this. But if there's a second of hesitation when it comes to strings or I just feel gross about it, then just say no thank you. What's your husband think? I think he's also a little bit anxious about being able to maintain and take care of a $1 million house on our income. Well, wouldn't you be paying cash for it? So you wouldn't spend more than a million, right? And it's a Santa Cruz house, so it's probably 1,700 square feet, three bedrooms, one bath, right?

Yep, that's correct. So you're just mowing the lawn. Yeah, you're mowing the lawn. The roof's going to be the roof, right? So you make $200,000 a year. Y'all could cover the repairs and things on a house like that. Okay. I'm feeling better about it already.

Okay, good. But listen to your husband's intuition. If he knows his mom and dad, and he knows, oh, man, if they give us a million dollars, we're going to hear about this every Christmas, every Thanksgiving, for the rest of our lives. Basically, for a million dollars, they're buying our loyalty. They're buying their grandkids in proximity. I don't want to be on the hook to anybody. Listen, you can look back on the track record.

Let's play that out. Are they generous people? Are they always giving gifts? Big or small, how have they know whenever they've offered a gift or is this their first time because this is worth noting if they are also receiving a windfall for a first time they may not know how they're going to be as gift givers does that make it sense like if i let's just pretend if i won the lottery today and i'm like, oh, I won the lottery.

I'm going to help my whole family out. And I started giving away a million dollars to each of them. I might go into it thinking that I won't have any strings attached, but because I've never tested that before, you might realize, dang, a million dollars. It has, it does have an emotional hold on you and you do have an expectation for what they'll do. You're going to pick up the phone and be like, you're not buying that car yeah yeah it's like whoa yeah yeah so there is part of this that you do need to consider like are were were your in-laws already wealthy

people and they've already been generous or is this new for them so these are some i like this conversation i do too it's a fun conversation and it's such an it's such an obnoxious amount of money right um for most of us it might happen at at $10,000 or $2,000 or $500 or whatever. But I think that idea about strings and can y'all sleep at night is good. And I also like, man, if it's your ego holding you back, check that. Check that. I kind of, if it were me, she can do what she wants. This is not a right or wrong answer.

I feel like I'd be comfortable with taking the down payment on the house that we would have bought, that we would have been able to afford. Right. You're just getting there a little bit sooner. I feel like that's fair and the safe option. I'll take the million, Alex. This is The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show, scripture and quote of the day. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge him and he shall direct your paths. That's Proverbs 3, verse 5 through 6. Then Maya Angelou said, forgive yourself for not knowing what you didn't know before you learned it. That's perfect for this show.

So many folks call in, John, and it's like, man, if I'd only known better and we're kind of living that, like, rearview mirror, shoulda, coulda, woulda, it's like, you can't change what you did. All you can do is what you do next. That's right. Man, let's go straight to the phone calls and the phone lines where we've got Nick in Salt Lake City.

What's up, Nick? Hey, so I just had a question for you guys. So me and my wife are looking to buy our first home and it would be around 30% of our take-home pay, but it has a basement apartment. So that's with the rental. So without the rental, it's like about 55% of our take-home pay, but with the rental, it's only about 30. Is that like a risk willing to, like a smart move to make or is it not? I would not. I wouldn't. The only way that this makes sense is if I can afford it both ways because if something

happens and your renter is messed up or you have a renter and they mess up the place and you've got to kick them out and then you have to have repairs done and so no one can rent it for a while, you're up a creek and you do not want this to be at 55 of your income does that make sense okay so and we go ahead sorry i was just gonna say we could make it like work for a couple months if we didn't have renters anything like that we have a we have a decent amount of savings so we'd still have around 50 000 left in savings so if anything did happen we'd be able to cover that And then another thing is like my income is going to double in about the next two years. So it's kind of like we'd buy now and then be able to be able to kind of afford it, be a little house poor for a couple of years. And then like, we'd be. Yeah. Two things, brother. Listen, number one, we would not have a show.

We wouldn't exist. This thousand person company would not exist if everybody's plans always worked out whether it's marriage who they're gonna who they're dating the car is gonna appreciate the house is gonna go up my job's gonna double like people make decisions based on things they think they project into the future that they think it's gonna happen it doesn't here's the other thing i'm just gonna make up some wild story here, okay? Let's pretend, I don't know, some mysterious illness just made its way across the globe and governments all over the world just went bananas and hit the brakes on everything and shut it all down. And then in a particular country across the nation, there was rules that went out overnight that said you can't evict anybody

for one month six months a year two years and they don't have to pay rent yeah right and if that i mean just imagine if that were to happen now i know i'm being kind of crazy there but that like jade and i just took that call over and over and over and over and over again and so dude i know you want it you've probably found the place it probably feels so good uh partridge in a pear tree you can't afford it man yeah it just is what it is yeah i mean you used you used the word house poor and i think that i think that it's probably easy to say in your mind what you think that will feel like and to say, oh, it's okay if we're house poor for a couple of months. I'm like, if you've never experienced that, you do not want to experience that. That is so stressful.

It is such a negative impact on your relationships. And my thing is like, listen, if you're so sure that your income is going to double in the next two years, just wait two years. Yeah, party, man. It's going to double. What next two years. Just wait two years. Yeah, party, man. It's going to double. What do you do for a living? It's kind of a niche job. I do automotive interior repairs for used car dealerships. So I'm going to buy it out.

It's just a family business. I'm planning on buying that out in two years. Are you going to borrow money to buy it out? No, just kind of a slow payment over time kind of thing. Just good. Cool, man. Good on you. That's awesome.

Yeah. To be clear, don't buy this house. Yeah. I don't buy this house. Can't afford it, man. I want you to have it, but you just can't afford it. And I love the idea. Like, I think it's cool if you have a situation where you bought the house and you've got

the apartment rental, but I think what makes it even cooler is if you can afford it on your own, it's almost like having roommates right like you don't want to move into an apartment and say i can only afford this apartment if i have a roommate and you you know or i'll buy this house and i'll have a roommate and you can only afford it with the roommate because you're up a creek if something happens and so that's i'm standing on that so we love you that's a good way to put it. So thank you. You're welcome.

I hate to tell people that they can't buy a house. I do too. I know he's going to have to go tell his wife. She's all excited. He'd be like, uh, listen, honey. Well, now we get to tell Bryce in Eugene, Oregon that he might have to sell his car. What's going on, Bryce? What's up, B-Money?

How's it going, guys? Doing good. How can we help? Yeah. So I just, I guess I'll give you a little back story. I bought a truck a couple years ago because I started my own business when I lived in Texas. And I totally, it was my first truck, didn't really know what the heck I was doing. And I ended up owning like 30 grand on it.

It was upside down on my previous car that i did bought for my mom and it was kind of a big big mess so um anyway uh i owe 14 000 on the truck currently and um and uh the truck's only worth like 11 000 and so my wife and i are trying to get out of debt quick and um i'm trying to figure out you know I mean it's a really reliable truck we could start putting we're my payments are like $520 a month but we're paying we're trying to pay trying to pay more um we're paying $800 a month right now um and trying to see if we can maybe pay more to get it paid off. Is it your smallest debt? It is.

So that's our smallest debt. Our other debt is my wife's student loans. She owes $26,000 in student loans, and those are the only two. So all our credit cards are paid off. Good. And so those are our only two. What's your combined income? So I'm the only one working.

She's trying to find a job. We live up in the boonies in Oregon, but it's $49,000, but our housing is paid for. So we don't pay for housing. Okay. Housing is paid for, but $49,000. Okay. paid for but 49 000 um okay uh i think that i still think that you've got to find a way to find more income here you got forty thousand dollars of debt to your point to your question i wouldn't sell this truck um if you can pay it off i think you can pay it off in a year if you really get after it it's fourteen thousand dollars and it's not worth you know going through the rigmarole of you know trying to sell an upside down vehicle and doing all that i think that it's

low enough and it's you know it's not like you have a bunch of other debts that go along with it and so for that reason i'd say just it's reliable you've had it for a while just pay it off and i think you're good um so the the housing that's paid for what is that amount to oh when you when you say uh what's it worth dollar amount dollar for dollar uh in this area probably 1400 a month uh just in rent uh but we don't pay for electric or electricity or water so i'll probably 15 1600500, $1,600 a month. So it's worth about $1,500. Okay. Yeah. Either way, I just think I would find ways to get your income up in order to do this quicker. I think that if you didn't

have debt, you might be able to kind of rest on your laurels a little bit and be like, all right, we've got this cool deal through our work, but I want you in a situation that your income is sustainable, even if, does that make sense? Like even if that's not part of it. And I feel like 49,000 would not be sustainable in that situation. And even if it were 55,000, right, I'd still be saying, ah, let's get that up to the national average at the very least is what I'd be looking to do. So to your point, I think you're doing right. You're paying off your truck. It's the smallest debt.

You're paying as much extra as possible. If you want to make that go faster, you got to increase that income. How's that land? That's awesome. And I guess one other thing that I'd have a question is that is that we have, um, my, my, my heart is to buy houses and, um, and flip them and potentially rent them. And that eventually be my, um, my full-time job. Um, so obviously I think, I mean, in my mind, we need to get completely paid off of our debt. And then, um, if I'm understanding everything correctly, I need to save 30% to buy the first house.

For your personal residence, you're putting 20% down as much as you can, honestly. 5% to 20% is usually where most people land. If you can put more, that's excellent. But just understand that moving forward, if you want to buy real estate, after you've purchased your personal residence and paid it off. Now you're buying real estate in cash. And that's a very different equation, which is all the more reason to pay off this debt and start getting your income up. Because if you're saving up to pay cash for real estate, you got to get some money coming in.

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