The Ramsey Show - This Family Drama Has a Gravitational Pull

Starting point is 00:00:01 Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broken. Common Sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Washaw is my co-host today, Ramsey Personality, number one, best-selling author. Our phone number here is AAA-825-2-2-25. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth. exactly what you pay for it. Sean is in Fargo, North Dakota.

Starting point is 00:00:40 Hey, Sean, what's up in your world? Oh, not much, Dave, just enjoying my life. Good. How can we help? I am kind of stressed out right now in the little, it's kind of in the pickle, it feels like with my family. They are, give or take, five to six million dollars in their family business debt. and I am struggling to struggling to cope with

Starting point is 00:01:13 like my dad has been failing health and he owns the family business and he is not worried about the major debt that his business has okay do you work there? Part time okay because I can't I can't handle full-time

Starting point is 00:01:32 can't handle it What do you mean? Him? You can't handle him? No, just the ideology he has in the business feelings. Okay. So why is it bringing you stress? You have a part-time job with a business that's in trouble

Starting point is 00:01:50 and with a guy who's ideology you don't agree with. Why would that cause you to be stressful? I will be most likely inheriting it with my three brothers, the business, which is probably worth around 10. million dollars. Mm-hmm. And so I'm kind of in talks right now to take over the books and all the, like, the business side of it to pretty much be full-time.

Starting point is 00:02:18 When are you supposed to do that? Probably within the next 10 to 15 years. I'm so confused. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so you're going to be part-time with the guy you disagree with while he runs a business in the ground for the next 10 years and you're going to stand there and watch it

Starting point is 00:02:40 happen and then they're going to hand it to you and call that a blessing. Why don't you just say I don't want it? I don't want it. So I mean, it's a good, oh, I shouldn't say it's a good business, but is it really worth because he tries to get me to go full-time like almost weekly on a weekly basis. Well, you tell us the upside because you called in and said all the negative things. So it makes sense that we would say. It sounds like something I want to do.

Starting point is 00:03:14 Why would you want to do this? Yeah. So I guess I want to ask, should I try to like almost intervene and be like, you'll wish you to start taking out this debt? Well, because they're thinking about adding another $1.25 million debt, my family. Your brothers. Yeah, my brother. Who are your future partners? Another million dollars in the debt.

Starting point is 00:03:41 Who are your future partners? I think, I'm my brothers. Yeah, but you said it. You say your brothers are as dumb as your dad. You said it before yourself, Sean. You said their ideology is completely different than yours. And I think you need to accept that, that that's the case. And you haven't said anything that shows any sign of them changing that ideology.

Starting point is 00:04:03 And so if they continue down this path, for the next however many years, they're just entrenching themselves further in that. And you're part-time. What do you do for a living? I operate heavy equipment. All right. Are you the baby of the family? No, no, I'm not.

Starting point is 00:04:19 Second old. No third oldest. Middle, okay. All right. Yeah. Well, here's the thing. I don't think that these people are going to change. Do you?

Starting point is 00:04:29 No, I don't. Okay. So you either got to walk away from them or you got to enjoy their bull crap. Yeah, it's the one way to put it I mean, you really do You're going to have to decide which one you're going to be If it's me, I'm going to let them have it I'm going to walk away

Starting point is 00:04:45 Uh-huh This sounds like a bear trap Sounds like it's going to tear your freaking leg off It's going to, the next 10 years of your life Are going to be pure freaking misery Until the old man dies And then when he dies Now you've got partners

Starting point is 00:04:58 That were trained by him called your brothers No, thank you I don't want him this For sure, for sure Yeah, I just I just, I, there's nothing here that aligns with who you are or who you want to be. This all sounds like misery. And there's not enough money there to fool with.

Starting point is 00:05:16 Let them have it. They're going to screw it up. It's going to be worth nothing. Yeah. And you don't believe that. You're still, you think, your wife thinks you're walking away from a million dollars. And you're not. You're walking away from a million dollars worth of debt, what you're walking away from.

Starting point is 00:05:29 In 15 years. I would sit down if you want to have one final conversation with the boys and with the dad and say, guys. I'm uncomfortable with this much debt, and I'm not going to join the business as long as you guys continue to run it further up into debt and have no desire to get out of debt because it makes me uncomfortable. I don't agree with this. And I can love you. And if you want to go over there and do something that I don't agree with, we can still be dad and son. We can still be brothers. I can still love you.

Starting point is 00:05:58 Yeah. But I do not want to personally be involved in this. It brings me great stress just thinking about it. And so if you guys want to commit to a path that gets us out of debt and keeps us out of debt as a permanent way of doing business, I would love to join and be part of this thing. I think it's got a future. But I am not going to get on this horse when you have this many bricks in the saddlebags. Listen, I agree with that 100%, clearly easier said than done. Sure.

Starting point is 00:06:29 Because you're going to have basically your whole family on this side and you're the lone ranger over here. That's not easy, but I agree 100%. Well, the thing is you put everybody on notice and 100% chance they're not going to do it. No. And so you're basically saying, here's why I'm going to go on and have my great life over here, and I'm going to love you. I've got family members. Most of my family members don't know the stuff I teach. But I'm not in a deal with them either.

Starting point is 00:06:55 And I still love them. Some of them even vote wrong. And I still love them. But that doesn't mean I have to go around and be in business with them. It doesn't mean I have to sit around and be stressed and I'm like somehow guilted into joining something. I completely disagree with. No, walk away from it, son, it ain't worth it. You make a lot of money running your own heavy equipment operation without any debt.

Starting point is 00:07:16 That's probably the other part of it is there's a lure that maybe there's like that bit, maybe just possibly one day it could be good. Then you look back and you're like, man, I should have stayed part of it, right? He's probably thinking about that little one or two percent. Yeah. It's like, I'm going to pet it. alligator and hope it doesn't bite. What do they do? They bite. You know, it's dumb. You're just asking for it. Don't think they're going to change. They only do how to do one thing and it's bite. So don't, don't be shocked when they bite. I mean, it's just your dad, this is what he does. It's a predictable

Starting point is 00:07:46 environment. Yeah. And he didn't hide it. He's not sure. He just said, that's who I am. Yeah, that's right. And he kind of said, like it or lump it. So I'd lump it. That's what I'd do. I mean, you know, it's just, it's hard to walk away from something like that, especially when all the family ties, it feels like you're being drawn in by a tractor beam. Yes. Gravitational pool. Yes, drama has a gravitational pull. I've noticed that.

Starting point is 00:08:10 Drama. Family drama. Yes. We'll suck you in and eat your life. Yeah. And then we connect a little $5 million debt to it, just for the fun of it. Yeah. Is at risk of identity theft.

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Starting point is 00:09:41 almost 20 years, they need an ID theft protection plan, and the only one I've ever recommended is from Zander Insurance. They monitor your personal and financial info, even your home title, and take over all the work if you become a victim. It's the most thorough and affordable plan out there. I even have it for my family and our entire team at Ramsey. Visit Zander.com or call 800-356-42-82. Nicole is in Atlanta. Hi, Nicole. How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Good. What's up? So me and my husband live in an apartment, and we're trying to decide if we should move

Starting point is 00:10:35 to a bigger space because we do have three kids, so two or five-year-old twins and then a two-year-old baby girl. So last year we were able to pay off our vehicle, but we had $62,000 worth of student loan debt left. And we were going to use, we've been using mostly like our overage, which is about $1,100 that we have a month to put towards our debt. And then we also pretty much use like our tax break or whenever that comes in to throw a lot at it, just in and out. So we're trying to see, we want them to, you know, have a space to have a yard and

Starting point is 00:11:10 like just more space is a little bit cramped up with all five of us here. So we were just wondering if we should stay. or if we should kind of go. Like our budget would be tighter, but we're trying to see what we should prioritize. What are you guys earning between the two of you right now? Growth would be $103,000. Okay.

Starting point is 00:11:33 The hard part with this is what you said. If you were to move from this apartment to a house, it's going to close the gap on how much margin you have to throw out this debt, which means there's going to be a longer period of time that you're going to be in debt, which long term that's going to affect your ability to build wealth. For that reason, I like the idea of home ownership, but I think the first step in that process needs to be eliminating the debt

Starting point is 00:12:00 so that you can actually go wholeheartedly into the home buying process and actually do it the right way so that it's a blessing for you. You're not even talking about homeownership. You're talking about renting a nicer place, aren't you? Yeah, yeah. We were actually looking until our rent is $2,200. And so we were wanting to rent, like, thinking about 25 as our max, $2,500, but that doesn't include, like, gas and utility. I'm sorry, you know, the increase in the utility thing happened.

Starting point is 00:12:26 Yeah, so we just don't know if that's going to be leaving us with $400. How much debt have you paid off so far? $36,000 was the vehicle. And how long did that take? That took us two years. Okay, making $130,000. $103,000? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:12:46 Yeah. So you guys suck at this so far, Nicole. We suck. Yeah. $18,000 making $100,000 per year is not enough debt reduction. You guys are still out, you're still going out to eat, you're still going on vacation, you're still spending money, you're still not on a tight budget. And so you made a little progress, but you should have made a lot more progress. If you told me you paid off $36,000 and six months, see, then I can take that number and go.

Starting point is 00:13:12 oh wait a minute you could clear up the rest of this in a year if you'd suck it up and get it done but at the rate you're going it's going to take you 10 years yeah that ain't cool that's true that ain't right that's how we feel yeah we got we got to not get stuck in that and if you feel like you're never going to get out then you just so well to heck with it i'll just take a big old rent and go ahead and enjoy my life now and get the kids a yard and you know you give what you're giving up is what you're doing because you're not making fast enough progress and so i'm going to put you on the beans and rice plan. If I'm you, I'm going to sit down with my husband and go, look, we did a little bit here and we didn't do a bad thing, but we really weren't,

Starting point is 00:13:51 it wasn't like we were spectacular. We kind of got the flu here. And we need to really light this thing up instead of putting $1,500 a month on it. We need to take extra jobs. We need to sell stuff. We need to not go out to eat. We need to tight, tight, tight, tight, tighten down this budget, not go the other way. And let's get this thing to $3,000 or $4,000 a month going at this $60,000 that's left. And then we can get out in about 14 or 15 months. Then we can talk about building an emergency fund. And then we talk about buying a house, not renting one.

Starting point is 00:14:23 Yeah. But what you're talking about is a five or a six year plan and you won't even make it. I agree. If you can have these kids, they're young right now, right? They're five years old, three years old. Now's the time that they can be squished and they don't know the difference. You know the difference, but they don't know the difference. And I, for one, would try to stay in that position as long as possible and save as much money as possible so that you can pay them instead.

Starting point is 00:14:47 Listen, if they're squished and their life is miserable for one year, they'll be fun. That's better than them being not squished and having a mediocre to average life for the rest of their life. You want to know what, though? I think back a lot of times on the house that I grew up in, and I think back on the house that my parents grew up in with six kids. Yeah, nobody told us we were. They were tiny. Nobody told us we were squished. No.

Starting point is 00:15:09 We were. but nobody told us we were. It was a thousand square foot right, brick range. Hello. And so, I mean, we went out in the backyard and played. They'd say go play in the traffic. You had to go outside. You did have to go.

Starting point is 00:15:21 Yeah, just play outside all the time. Did you tell your kids to go play in the traffic? You don't tell your kids. I don't tell them to play in traffic. I just tell them to go outside. Go play in the traffic. Get out of my, got out of my feet. Yes.

Starting point is 00:15:34 That's what caused me to be the way I am. Dustin is in Cortland, Idaho. Hey, Dustin, what's up? Hi. So I'll get right into it. My dad incurred about $30,000 in debt. He has no retirement, his only incomes in Social Security. He now has dementia, and my brother and I are left kind of trying to manage this for him.

Starting point is 00:15:55 He's currently being sued on one credit card for $8,000, and he owes $13,000 on another credit card. And I guess my question is, should we try and settle this with them? Does he own anything? No, no assets. Well, how would he settle it? Essentially, my brother and I would have to help him out. Why? Why would you do that? Just tell the credit card company to bite me.

Starting point is 00:16:19 He has no money. He has nothing to give. They can't get anything. He doesn't have anything, right? Yeah, he has nothing. It's the only Social Security, and I don't believe they can touch that. They can't touch that. Does he own a home? No. No? He doesn't have any money in his bank account except the Social Security. Yeah, it would just be for me and my business. rather than have one less thing to have to deal with it at all. I got one less thing.

Starting point is 00:16:44 I'm just going to show him the smallest finger on my left hand and say that's all you get, nothing. Are they calling you? No, no. I just tell them to, you know, tell them jumping a creek. You shouldn't have loan money to a guy who had dementia and no money. Okay. And should I, should I offer to have them sign a stipulated judgment to avoid additional attorneys? Who cares? They're not going to get any of it. What I would do is call them up and say, if you want to talk to him, call them up and just say this. Say, I want you to make a note in the file.

Starting point is 00:17:18 He has advanced dementia and zero assets. We're not going to have any conversations with you. You might as well write this off because you're not getting a dime. Okay. And just real simple. Let's pretend he had passed away. Okay. I just send him a copy of the death certificate as a courtesy to let them know.

Starting point is 00:17:37 and let them know that there's no estate. And then after that, I'm not having any more discussions with these people. They're morons. None of this can pass to you if you're worried about that. No, yeah, I'm not worried about that. I mean, it's his debt. Yeah, I'm not responsible for that. It's just sad, and it's one of this part.

Starting point is 00:17:58 It's a sad subchapter, subparagraph in this overall sad story that you're dealing with. But what I would do is just say, I'm not going to worry. about it at all. And if you want to have one conversation just as a courtesy, you could. But I'm not going to have lengthy conversations. I'm not going to have multiple conversations. And I'm not going to give him a dime. There's no point in it. They shouldn't have loaned him the money. Yeah. I agree. And it's just sad. I'm sorry for you having to face that. And, you know, I've run into situations like that in my life, Dustin. How old are you? I've run into situations like that. And what I do is I say, okay, I got to help my dad out.

Starting point is 00:18:42 In your case, this is what you're saying. I got to help my dad out. And this is a sad situation. And so what I'm going to get from this is a lesson to never end up like this. Right. I'm going to do whatever it takes in my life to not end up this way. It's like, you know, I was working for a guy one time. He goes, I might be working in McDonald's at my retirement, but it'll be the one I own in St.

Starting point is 00:19:06 Thomas. Come on now. So I'm going to learn a lesson from those old people standing there working in McDonald's because they don't have any money. I don't want to be one of them. That's right. And so you look at this and you go, he's got no assets. He's got dementia. And the only positive thing in his life is he's got two sons that love him and are going to care for him.

Starting point is 00:19:23 Other than that, this guy's a pauper. We would use old language. But it's very sad. And so take it as a lesson to go, I'm there, you know, and then you teach your kids. Your grandpa ended up that way. Your grandpa was not a bad person. But this is how he ended up. And this is how we're not, from this point forward, the family tree changes.

Starting point is 00:19:42 We're shifting it. It's over. So take a lesson from it, at least. At least get that out of it. But no, I wouldn't give those guys any money. Not a dime. I used to be that guy who bragged about running on no sleep. And then I realized being tired all the time is not a flex.

Starting point is 00:20:25 To show up as the best George Camel I can be, I need real rest. And that's why I got Casper mattresses in my home. The experts at Casper designed their mattresses to help you sleep deeper, cooler, more comfortably. And they've been top ranked in both the foam and interspring mattress categories by Consumer Reports. You and your entire family deserve great sleep. So go to casper.com slash Ramsey and use Code Ramsey for 25% off mattresses and 10% off everything else. That gives you up to $1,200 off the Snowmax mattress, which is the exact one I sleep on. That's casper.com slash Ramsey, Code Ramsey. Neil is in Birmingham. Hi, Neil, how are you?

Starting point is 00:21:22 Hey, I'm very blessed to be speaking with you and Jay, Dave. Thank you. How can we help? Yes, sir. So my wife and I are working on baby step four and six. We are both nervous about a retirement and working with a financial planner. We have never worked with one before, but we both grew up in households with pensions, but no nest egg to fall back on. And so we're really nervous about the future.

Starting point is 00:21:50 Neither one of us want to retire poor. Good for you. Well, what you don't want from an advisor, I'm not sure why you're nervous. I want to hear that in a minute. But what you don't want is from an advisor is arrogance or dropping their glasses on the end of their nose and shaming or telling you what you need to do. These are all warning signs that you run from, that you should be nervous about. When you sit down with a good advisor, they should be teaching you and saying this is how this thing works, and this is why I personally use it. And this is why Dave Ramsey recommends this.

Starting point is 00:22:35 And here's how it works. And you say, well, I don't understand. Okay. Well, let me teach you another way. Well, I still don't understand. Okay. Then your job is to teach me and then I will decide. I kind of think of it this way.

Starting point is 00:22:50 about sometimes I go into a nice restaurant and we ask the waiter, you know, what's the best thing in here? You ever done that? Yes, sir. And I don't always get what they suggest because sometimes what they suggest I don't like. Yeah, we've been doing it on our own. I don't turn my choices over to them. I just listen to them and then I make my choice. Yes, sir.

Starting point is 00:23:13 So we've been doing it on our own for several years. We basically started putting in 15 percent, I guess, about five or six years ago after we finally were able to. Good. And so we're trying to, we're playing catch up because we are, we are in our 50s now. And so we're trying to play catch up. And so, but we are, our 401K is not doing, not, not kicking out the percentages that we hear on the show that, like that the S&P did last year and everything.

Starting point is 00:23:42 And so when, but we have talked to a couple of financial people. Some of them are out of state. We don't know that ends and outs of working with somebody out of state. I would work with somebody in your. neighborhood. Okay. See, that's what me and my wife thought, but we were basically told by somebody we were old school, that that's the old way to think that. Somebody's always got an opinion about your money. Have you noticed that? Yes, sir. Oh, yes, sir. Yeah. So what I did, listen, if you just go to Ramsey Solutions, you click on SmartVestor Pro, you'll find several people in

Starting point is 00:24:10 Birmingham that we recommend, and we don't recommend them if they don't have the heart of a teacher, and they don't agree with the stuff we teach here on the air. And so that's a baseline. And then you sit down, and interview them and say, would I hire this person as my tutor, as my teacher? Okay. So we're kind of nervous. When we were with a smart best approach, should we be willing to turn over our money to them? I don't know. We don't know how that works, a lot of it.

Starting point is 00:24:39 Well, your 401K, you can't turn over. You have to leave it at your workplace. They can look at it for you and say, go back over to work, and that's a choice you could make right there that'd make you more. That particular fund outperform the S&P, the three you got didn't. They can help you look at that, but they can't manage it. By turning it over, all it is is you're setting the stuff under their management, but they're not going to do anything without you telling them what to do.

Starting point is 00:25:06 I got you. It's not like you sign them onto your checking account. They're not authorized to do trades. They're not authorized to do anything unless you tell them to do it. Okay. Okay. See, that's something we didn't know. We didn't know when we do it.

Starting point is 00:25:21 Do we just have to turn everything over to them? I would put everything on the table and let them look at the whole picture. Yes, sir. But I'm not going to lose control of it. I don't lose control of anything. See, when I hire a lawyer, some lawyers get confused. They think they get to tell you what to do. And I'm like, no, you work for me.

Starting point is 00:25:41 You work for me. You tell me what the situation is, and then I will decide, based on the information you teach me about this particular law, about this particular situation, what I am going to do. And then I'm going to tell you what to do. Exactly. You just don't want, you want to keep in control as to who's in charge here. You know what I'm saying? Oh, yes, sir.

Starting point is 00:26:03 I completely understand. We're in our, like I said, I'm 52, so we're going down the track here, getting closer to Well, all you're doing is saying I probably can make my money work harder with someone who plays with money all day long teaching me. Yes, sir. That's all it is. Okay. That's all it is.

Starting point is 00:26:20 Well, that's what, yes, sir. That's what we will do then. That's where we're just, we don't want to retire poor. You're not. That's the biggest thing we're nervous about. You're not going to retire poor. You're going to retire rich. I can tell just by talking to you because you're freaking paying attention.

Starting point is 00:26:34 The people that retire poor don't bother to look at it. Unfortunately, I think we look at it every day. Well, see, yeah, you're getting all twisted up, man. Get you a plan, ride the plan, and have a little peace in your finances. But yeah, that's, it does. It takes, I think not knowing is what kills you. 100%. The fact that I can already tell that guy's quite frugal just by listening. Yeah, for sure. They're doing the right thing. And it's okay. Everybody has their moment at different times in life where they wake up and they go, oh, crap, I got to get my money together. And for some of us, it's a little later down the line. But once, to your point, once you start paying attention, there is time.

Starting point is 00:27:17 to make things right, especially if you're doing the Ramsey plan. Chloe's in Orlando. Hi, Chloe, how are you? Hi, I'm great. Hi, Dave and Jade. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? All right. So my fiancé and I are getting married at the end of this year in October. Great. He has quite a bit of money saved, but we also have debt, and we're also trying to save for a wedding. So we kind of need some help figuring out how to go about this.

Starting point is 00:27:47 How much do you have saved? In the total liquid saved, we have $123,000. Awesome. Who's we? Wait a minute. How much does he have? How much do you have? He has, okay, let me start with me.

Starting point is 00:28:03 I have about $2,000. Him and I together created a saving account that is about $22,000, and he has the rest, which would probably be that $100,000. Okay. And the 22,000, I'm guessing, is I hope you're saving for the wedding. That's correct. Okay. And what are you planning to spend on the wedding? 45,000. Are there any family members helping out? Yes, we have, my parents are giving us $10,000, and then he has an uncle that has given him $10,000 as well.

Starting point is 00:28:40 Okay, that's $42, so you're there. And what is your household? What is your income and what is his income? Um, his income is a take home around 96, a little bit more with bonuses. And then mine, I just put myself on salary. I do have, um, my own business, but on salary, I take home on. I don't care what your salary is. What's your income? What is the business profit going to be this year?

Starting point is 00:29:07 Oh, um, probably 80,000. Okay. All right. So you got a $200,000 income between you, if you were to be married today. You have $22,000 plus you have pledges. get you up to 45,000 for your wedding budget. So the wedding budget's done. Can we agree on that?

Starting point is 00:29:24 Yes. Okay, good. And then how much debt do you have and how much debt does he have? Without the home, I have around 14,000 in credit card and my car. And he has around... 14 is the credit card and car? I owe about 4,200 on my car, and then I have 8,000 in credit cards. Okay.

Starting point is 00:29:51 Okay. All right. And then his truck is about 35,000, and he has a credit card of 34. Thousand. 100. 100, sorry. Okay. All right, cool.

Starting point is 00:30:07 Very easy then. You do not need to combine finances until after the honeymoon. Okay. Okay. So he should pay off his truck and his credit card today out of his hundred. Okay. And you need to start working to pay off your 13 as fast as possible, and the wedding is already done. Okay.

Starting point is 00:30:26 Now, my question is he's going to be worried about paying his truck off because that dwindles down his savings account. When. You guys are going to have to really quickly have a talk about how you view debt and how you're going to manage debt and finances in your marriage going forward. He doesn't really have $100,000. He already spent $34 of it. He just hadn't admitted it. Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know?

Starting point is 00:31:11 Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used unless you've got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars. And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular proper maintenance. Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from South Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car.

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Starting point is 00:31:58 I feel 100% confident that I'm going to get the service that I need. Hey, if you want your car to last and stay on track with the baby steps, trust Christian brothers. Go to CBAC.com slash Ramsey to find your local shop, schedule service, and get an exclusive Ramsey discount, 10% off your visit, up to $250. Yeah, that's CBAC.com slash Ramsey. See store for details. Logan's in Indiana. Hey, Logan, what's up?

Starting point is 00:32:40 Wait a minute, let me try again. Hey, Logan, what's up? Hey, sir, how we doing? Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can I help? I'm trying to get some advice on my wife and I going into debt to start a cattle operation. Okay. How long have you been listening to this show, Logan? About six months or so.

Starting point is 00:33:06 Okay. And so you know that about 95% of what we talk about is telling people to not going debt and how to get out of debt, right? Yeah, it is. I feel like I've heard a little bit of information with businesses that sometimes like buying a business or something that can depend on the profit that it brings and how quickly it can be paid off. So I wanted to see if that would work in this case. No, that would be like buying it from an owner and the owner gets the proper, the former owner gets the profit until not borrowing $150,000 to buy cows from the bank. That's different. Okay.

Starting point is 00:33:41 So I don't borrow money, Logan. and I've done that for 40 years, and I run a business, and I've grown the business with the profits and the business without borrowing money to do it. And because the simple fact is this, business has risk. When you borrow money to start a business or run a business, you increase the risk 100-fold. A lot more chance that you're going to go bankrupt. And so what's your household income, sir? About 120 to 130,000 crook spending on overtime. Good for you.

Starting point is 00:34:18 So if you took out $150,000 loan, how fast could you pay it back? Running the numbers that we ran, given the market now, you know, and obviously as long as it doesn't just completely tank out, within about two years to three at the most, by your third round of CADs, everything should be completely paid off. And it would be profit after that minus operational costs. Yeah. So what would be wrong with starting a little bit smaller and taking four years and making the thing cash flow its way to the exact same position? Buy a third of what you're talking about buying with cash. Okay. And make that third by the next third and by the next third.

Starting point is 00:35:05 You don't need any money out of this cattle operation. You could pour every single dollar of profit into growing it. Agreed? Correct. Yeah, that would be the plan. Because you have a good income at home already. And so I think it's what we call in business organically growing the business with your cash, your own cash.

Starting point is 00:35:25 And that's what we've done here, although we weren't able to do it as fast as you're going to be able to do it. And that's assuming cattle prices don't do what they have done in the past, which is they're all over the freaking place, as you know. I'm sure you've looked at the trend lines on that. It's scary. So there's times the market has tanked. and it's an agricultural product, and so it's a lot more unpredictable than some other types of

Starting point is 00:35:49 businesses. So you've got to be very, very careful. But if I were in your shoes, I would scratch the itch, but I would save up $50, $75,000 in cash by living on nothing. And I'd dump every bit of that in there. And then I'd take every dime a profit and use it to grow the business. And I think you'll be there one year later than you would have been there if you've borrowed the money and everything went perfect, which by the way, nothing ever goes perfect.

Starting point is 00:36:18 That is, that's true. Yeah. I mean, you get, the cows get sick. There's all kinds of problems. There's, you know, the Brazilians decide they're going to come in and, you know, upset the beef market. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how this works, but there's always something, right? Correct.

Starting point is 00:36:34 So, yeah, I would rather you do that and be tired and, um, stretched on your cash, and then no one's going to take it away from you. You're not going to lose everything because you rolled the dice on this particular horse race. I just crossed metaphors. You did. That's all right. No, that makes sense. A follow-up to that would be if you were to cash flow this. What's your opinion on, you know, like leasing pasture and stuff?

Starting point is 00:37:07 Do you look at that as debt, or is that looked at a little bit different? No, that's just overhead. Yeah, that's like, that's just like leasing a building to run your business in. Instead of buying the building. That's, there's no problem. I would rent the pasture for sure. Okay. Because now we've got two businesses.

Starting point is 00:37:24 If you buy the pasture, you've got two businesses. You've got the real estate business and the farming business. Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's like me. I've got this building here that's $650,000 square feet, like, you know, $600,000 property, right? So I've got this piece of real estate. I'm in a real estate business.

Starting point is 00:37:41 and I've got a business that's inside the real estate. But I've got two things going on here, very substantial things. Ramsey and a big old piece of real estate, big campus here, right? I mean, I'm in the office building business, period, no matter how you cut it. And you can mix those two together and act like, well, they're all one thing. No, they're really not. I've got a big old office building. I could have leased it.

Starting point is 00:38:03 There's six of them right down the road down here. I could at least another one and not put half a billion dollars into this thing, right? So that's the thing. So just no need to get in the real estate business. I just lease it. If you're going to start a restaurant, for God's sake, don't buy the building. Oh, gosh, please no. Just rent the building and get started, you know.

Starting point is 00:38:24 You start a daycare, rent the building. And just don't get in the real estate business until you've been in business a long time and you've got a predictable environment. But you don't have that there until then. So, wow. Cool. I think we won that one. Yeah, I think he's going to take your advice.

Starting point is 00:38:42 I think he's going to do it. I believe in him. I like it. I like Logan. All right. That's kind of nice. I like getting one occasionally. Leona's in Cincinnati.

Starting point is 00:38:50 Hi, Leona. How are you? Hi, Dave. Hi, Jade. I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Starting point is 00:38:58 So I have a quick question. So my husband and I, we have a one-year-old, and we recently moved, well, not recently last year, we had switched from our apartment because of noisy neighbors. and went to a town home. The town home, when we moved in there, it was not great. And we sent several emails to the leasing office about the issues that we were having and, you know, mold and spiders everywhere and centipedes and all these things happening in there. We told them that we are not happy with the townhome, and they said they'll fix things.

Starting point is 00:39:34 Months went by, they weren't fixing anything. So we decided to just break our lease because I have legal shield, my job and I reached out to an attorney here there and they said well they failed to provide people living conditions I have pictures of everything and you don't owe anything so you can break your lease and you'll be fine oh boy that that was not good advice oh yeah you got what you paid for with that lawyer did you send them did you sent I mean did you get any did you send them anything in writing did you do any did you do your due diligence other than just making a phone call?

Starting point is 00:40:10 No, so we definitely sent pictures. You mean to the leasing office? Both. Did you let them know that you were seeking legal counsel on behalf? Did you go through the due diligence of making sure that they understand what's going? Yeah, so I called the leasing office. My husband went up there because they weren't responding to my emails. My husband went up there.

Starting point is 00:40:33 He talked to them. They said, okay, we'll take care of things. a couple months went by, nothing was happening. The most they did was change the tray and the dishwasher. Okay, so stop. Let's just stop. You just moved out when you got mad because you called Legal Shield and they said you could. Well, we weren't planning to break our lease because we did that before to move to where we are now and that was not fun.

Starting point is 00:40:59 So we said we're not going to break a lease unless we get some kind of advice that we can. So after we called the head office, the property management company or whoever, we talked to the district manager. They said, okay, definitely send us emails and everything, all the pictures that you've been reaching out to them about and everything. Did that, no response. Called again, left the voice message, not getting any response. So the legal shield attorney said they sent them a letter to the leasing office and the property management company and saying that they failed to provide whatever suitable living. conditions for us and our child, so we don't owe them anything. So because of that, we decided to just break our lease because they weren't fixing anything.

Starting point is 00:41:43 We asked them multiple times, are you going to send them? Well, then this is on Legal Shield. Legal Shield needs to defend you for free. Yeah, if they told you that. You're going to get sued, I can promise you. I promise you 100% this line Lord's coming after you. You don't have the option of just walking away because I got some bugs. Even if you send them pictures and even if they don't answer you,

Starting point is 00:42:04 even if they're jerks, even if they have horrible service. It's not how it works. I mean, so now Legal Shields bit this off. They need to pick it up and close the deal, and they're not going to be able to. This is going to be horrible for you. If collectors are blowing up your phone every day and you're living in constant fear of the next call, you're not living. You're surviving.

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Starting point is 00:44:01 Diane is in Chicago. Hey, Diane, how are you? Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Oh, yeah, same here. Well, I thank you for taking my call.

Starting point is 00:44:13 I currently have quite a bit of money in the banks, I feel. And I am thinking about my retirement, and I'd like to know how best I should invest it in order to make it last through retirement. How much is it? So I have $600,000 in the bank. Wow. I'm debt-free. I have just $250,000 in retirement,

Starting point is 00:44:43 which I don't know what to do with because it's been with the payroll service since we don't know our own business and it's just been sitting there. I don't know what to do with it. I know nothing about it. I wasn't actively involved in our business. I stayed home and took care of our kids.

Starting point is 00:44:57 raised them and have decided to go into my own franchise. And so I know that I will be using some of that money for the franchise. But I don't know that just sitting in a bank is the best place for it. Yeah. How old are you? 57. Okay. And you said you were not involved in the business,

Starting point is 00:45:21 and now you're opening a franchise with the business money. Yes. Uh-huh. Okay. So your husband was running the business? Yes. Where is he? He's at home.

Starting point is 00:45:39 He is supporting me on my business. He's hoping at some point he'll be able to branch out and do something on his own. But everything has been in my name. The bank accounts, the houses, the business. We sold the business last year. and then That where the 600 grand came from? Yeah, we sold it for $1.2 million,

Starting point is 00:46:03 but we were given a large lump sum and we paid off some unexpected unknown debts. Like, okay, unknown. You're being cryptic. I didn't know about it. You're going to tell us what's going on because you're not, just not making sense. My husband has a gambling debt.

Starting point is 00:46:24 Oh. I don't know. what he gets he gets a set amount every month that comes in that he collects and he uses that for extracurricular activities I have no you don't know how much he's oh no I know how much he gets he gets $3,600 a month and that's his play money I get so he's basically got a gambling problem that ran you guys deeply in debt and that's why everything's in your name yeah okay all right that makes sense so who's supplying the $3,600 a month for him to continue to gambling? We have $2,500 coming in from our rental. That person bought the business and he has the

Starting point is 00:47:04 option to buy by the end of the year for $350,000 if he exercises that right. And then he also gets Social Security $1,100 a month. Okay. So at this point, you're okay with losing $40,000 a year with your husband? No, I'm not, but I have no control over that. What's the plan moving forward? Does he Does you know that he has a problem? You've got everything in your name. Right. Everything's in my name. He knows that I'm opening up this franchise, which will be approximately $125,000 to open

Starting point is 00:47:36 the franchise on my own. He's just kind of like letting me leave the money in the bank. But I feel like it's not getting the best. So I'm looking for ways that I can invest it. I mean, we could tell you to get with the SmartVestor Pro and invest that money, but I really don't feel like that's the issue of the conversation. Yeah, there's a lot, there's so much going. Here's the problem.

Starting point is 00:48:01 It's hard to fill up a hole while somebody's digging out the bottom. Right. And that's kind of what we're hearing here. But you feel like you've got him, his gambling addiction under control. And I question that because I've seen, I've seen so many. Well, I mean, but, and so as long as you keep this stuff in your name, I guess you have the option of divorce at some point. if he runs up, you know, let's say he runs up a million dollar gambling debt and you don't want to pay it

Starting point is 00:48:29 with the money that's in your name, then you've only got one option at that point. So anyway, that's what you're facing. So, yeah, I would take the $600,000 and I'd take the $250,000, and I would sit down with a smart vester pro and begin to invest it in good mutual funds. If it averages 10% or more, it will double every seven years. So you basically got a million dollars in seven years at 64 years old, you'd have $2,000. dollars. At seven more years at 71 years old, you'd have $4 million. So you're going to be fine if you do that and you don't piss it away with this franchise. If this franchise doesn't go

Starting point is 00:49:05 belly up on you. And so, and it sounds like you've never run a business before. He ran the business before and now you're buying a franchise. So that's a little concerning. Is the franchise in the same like field of expertise or is it something totally different? No, it's something that I'm passionate about, something that is for me, not for him. I don't expect his involvement in it, but I'm very confident and very passionate about this, and I'm expecting for it to be very successful, and I have a family that is willing to stand behind me and support me. So that's not even a question whether or not that's going to be successful. I'm confident that it will be.

Starting point is 00:49:41 I've got to tell you that that's not true in the small business world. So there is risk that you're not perceiving, apparently. So, yeah, you're going to buy it and you're going to do it. But I want to insulate you from you and this bad decision, if it's a bad decision, and I want to insulate you from him and his continuous bad decisions with $600 or more $1,000 going over in a regular low-risk investment in comparison to gambling and in comparison of franchise purchasing. And so let's put some money over there. So if these other two things go sideways and this plan doesn't work, then, you know, you've at least got that money working for you.

Starting point is 00:50:27 So, yeah, you need to sit down and do that. And you need to put a real limit on the amount of dollars you're going to pour into the franchise before it starts giving you money back instead of you putting money into it. Absolutely. And because if you don't, with the level of unrealistic optimism that you're coming at this with and you're positive, how positive you are about it, then you're going to end up going 300 grand in the hole on this thing. And if you won't put 125 in it and you believe in it, go do it.

Starting point is 00:50:57 Go live your dream. I ain't got a problem with that. What I've got a problem with is these absolute statements, and I've been in business my whole life. And there is no absolute 100%. People are behind me. I feel positive. It's an area I'm passionate about.

Starting point is 00:51:11 None of that may matter. You may still lose all that money. So don't go into this 300 grand. with all your positivity. If you want to put $125 in it, do it. And then I'd put the rest of it over with a smart vester pro and some good mutual funds and to where it's protected from this business risk and the gambling risk and separate these things. Yeah, I'm just, I'm going to call it like I heard it.

Starting point is 00:51:35 It almost sounded like this business for you is some sort of retaliatory thing against him to kind of prove that you're doing your thing over here. And my thing, I would just say draw a line in the sand and set some boundaries about how long you're going to endure. this into what point before you go and do the things that you need to do and make that separation so that he can get the help that he needs because allowing this to persist doesn't feel like the answer it feels like it's breeding resentment from you oh for sure they kind of should absolutely most people just drift through life with their money no plan no budget stuck on autopilot but winning with money is intentional that's why i love fair win

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Starting point is 00:55:28 I wish I had a little bit more information, but off the top, I would say yes, because to have your mortgage paid for, that's money that you're not going to have to take a draw on. And my guess, I don't know what your expenses are every month, but my guess is you probably are living okay on the $6,000 per month if you don't have a single debt in the world. And it's just you. Yeah, make sure you cut up a stupid credit card. Yeah. You get on a budget so you don't spend more than you make again. Yeah, that's really what you need to do. I don't know if that's old debt. not the problem. It's the symptom of you over spending.

Starting point is 00:56:01 Yeah. And if it's old debt and you're like, I'm not on that lifestyle anymore, I just still have it laying around, absolutely paid off. But if it's current debt, then Dave is absolutely right about that. Mike's in Virginia Beach. Hey, Mike, how are you? Good. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up? My wife and her siblings inherited some money from their dad when he passed away several years back and one of the siblings is the executor, and they said they're not going to tell one of the other siblings about it because they don't feel that they're financially responsible and they're just going to hold their money back from them.

Starting point is 00:56:38 I say that's not, that ain't their call. You're exactly right. Okay, well, I'm smarter than I look sometimes. The executor, the literal, the reason they're called an executor is there to execute. They execute what the will said. It didn't say you're a trust officer and you get to decide what's best. It said you execute what the will says. It's your only option.

Starting point is 00:57:05 Even if you don't like it, even if you don't agree with it. You have one option when you're the executor and that's to execute what the will says. Otherwise, the people on the other side of it are going to sue your butt and they're going to win because you violated your fiduciary responsibility. What's your wife think? She agrees with me. Okay. You guys got your part, right? Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:57:30 Okay. I would tell the executor that they're being stupid and they're going to get sued. Well, I kind of did that. Yeah, well, then you've done your job and leave it alone. It's not your problem anymore. How much is it? Yeah. You know, I think it's like $8 or $10,000 each.

Starting point is 00:57:45 Oh, it's not enough to mess with. But here's the thing. The person finds out that they were not giving the money they're supposed to be given, The person that is the executor is in deep kimchi legally. Well, that's what I've kind of figured. Yep, for sure. For sure. But there's nothing you can do about it.

Starting point is 00:58:01 I mean, it's just these are people doing whatever they want to do, and that's what people do all the time. That's the problem. When you pick the executor of your will, folks, you need to pick someone who's going to have the integrity to execute your will. Yeah. What is it you will to happen? That's right.

Starting point is 00:58:18 That's what that means. They need to be Switzerland. Yeah. Did you say deep kimchi? I just did. Okay, just check in. Just make sure. Things come up in the Rolodex.

Starting point is 00:58:29 Nora is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, Nora. What's up? Hi, Dave and Jade. I'm excited to talk to you today. I have an exciting question for you. I want to know, should we buy a new car with cash or pay off our house? Ooh, my favorite type of question.

Starting point is 00:58:44 Tell us more. Okay, so we are in Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6. We've been on the Ramsey plan for a solid like seven years. We have $60,000 saved for the vehicle in a high-yield savings account. But then when we are doing our annual budget meeting, we're also looking at our brokerage account, which is sitting at $35,000. Okay. Our mortgage is approximately $83,000 left. Okay.

Starting point is 00:59:06 So if we liquidate that brokerage account, we could pay off the home and be done. And still have an emergency fund? Yeah, we do have $10,000 set aside for an emergency fund beyond those two amounts. That's a bit small. Yeah, is that what it would be if the house were gone? Yeah, well, we use, like, the brokerage account as, like, a backup emergency. Yeah, you don't have that anymore in this scenario. We have, we have $10,000 in our bank account right now as a backup.

Starting point is 00:59:35 I know, but if you use the brokerage account and you use the $60,000 from the car and you pay off the house, you're down to $10,000, which isn't much. Well, we want to spend approximately $50,000 on a car. No, are you listening to what I just saying. He's saying if you pay the house off with that money. I said if you pay the house off, you got nothing but 10 grand left, right? Well, we also have a $10,000 savings account that is just the side emergency fund. So you have $20,000. So we would have, yeah, we would have $20,000.

Starting point is 01:00:05 If the house is paid off? Okay, that's what I didn't understand. All right. Are you, is your net worth over a million dollars? It is, sir. And this is a brand new car? New to us. Oh, it's not a brand new car.

Starting point is 01:00:17 It might be a year old. Okay, that's not a brand new car. It either is or it is. Okay. All right. Now, so, wow. I mean, how long would it take you? You could do either. I don't think there's a wrong answer here. How long would it take you if you were to pay off the house? How quickly could you save back up $60,000 and buy the car you want? We think by probably August. Oh, crap. Man, I got to be honest. There's not a wrong answer. I probably pay the house off.

Starting point is 01:00:45 Yeah, there is a wrong answer. Don't buy the car. Pay the house off and then go buy the car. You would? I would never buy that car. I mean, I wouldn't buy the car. I would pay the house off, but I'm just saying, do you think she'd be dead wrong? Yeah, because in eight months, you can go get the car anyway. That's what I said. So get the house paid off. I'm just saying it.

Starting point is 01:01:03 What are your priorities here? Your priorities are get the house paid off, not buy a stupid car. Stupid cars you can get. I got a stupid car today. I don't mind getting a stupid car. Listen, fine, but they go down and value. I would do the same thing. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:14 But do you think that lightning would strike her down? No. Had she done the other way. Lightning doesn't strike you down on anything on this show, hardly. but no, I'm definitely paying the house off 100% today. I paid off today. And then I'd save like crazy and go buy the car that you want. And you might even get a nicer car.

Starting point is 01:01:32 Parking it in the driveway of a paid-for house. Hello. No question that that's the order of things I'd go down. Definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely. So here's the thing. And I'm a car guy. I've owned a bunch of different vehicles here and there. and they all go down in value.

Starting point is 01:01:51 Yeah. And so you can't put appreciating assets in the same sentence with the largest depreciating asset that we buy, even if you've got a high net worth. But what sent you over the edge was the fact that they owed so little on the mortgage. Yeah. It's simple. Yeah. I mean, if she owed $500,000 on the mortgage, then we could have a different discussion. Or even $100. Well, let's see.

Starting point is 01:02:15 My tipping point probably would have been like $2.50. Yeah. I mean, I just, the point is that this is very doable very quickly. And so it doesn't matter. Mm-hmm. So do it the right way. Yes. I'm with you.

Starting point is 01:02:28 And let your actions reflect that you've got an understanding of how these assets work. Right. Because five years from today, that $50,000 car is worth $15. Yes. And that's going to be painful. hopefully you keep it for a very long time. Five years from today, that house will have doubled twice. Yes.

Starting point is 01:02:49 You know, so, I mean, there's no question where I'm going with this. And it doesn't mean you never buy a car. I bought one the day. Or literally. You bought a car today? What'd you get? I got the new Bronco Raptor. Look at you.

Starting point is 01:03:01 So I just wanted one. But I'm not mad about cars. That's not the point. That's not the point. The point is they go down in value and they need to be a minor part of your overall life. Love entrepreneurs. Don't forget, guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers.

Starting point is 01:03:59 And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got NetSuite. That was years ago, and we've never looked back. See, NetSuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours.

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Starting point is 01:05:02 That's net suite.com slash Ramsey. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Nathan and Megan are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Doing great. Doing well. Great to be here. Good to have you. Where do you all live?

Starting point is 01:05:29 We live in Woodstock, Georgia. Oh yeah, just down the road. Well, welcome to Nashville. Thank you. Good to have you guys. And how much debt have you paid off? We paid off $155,000 in just under five years. Good for you.

Starting point is 01:05:42 And your range of income during that time? Starting income was $100,000 and ending income was $145,000. Very cool. What do you all do for a living? So I work in technology and manage a whole tech team in the convenience industry. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I worked part-time in a credit department at a,

Starting point is 01:06:00 a staffing company during that time. Okay. What kind of debt was it? It was our mortgage. Whoa. Looking at weird people. I know. That's right.

Starting point is 01:06:10 Very cool. How much is this house worth? About $450 now. Good for you guys. That's awesome. And you've been putting money in your retirement all along. So how much is in that? About $300.

Starting point is 01:06:20 All right. Very good. Almost millionaires now. That's right. Look at you guys. Wow. And how old are you two? I'm 28.

Starting point is 01:06:29 And I'm 29. So you got to start this in your early 20s. Yes. Our goal was to get it paid off before Nathan turned 30 in March. And you did it. Paid it off on Christmas Day. Wow. That's awesome.

Starting point is 01:06:44 Tell us the story. How do you guys be smart enough to do this in 22 years old? Well, honestly, he listened to you since he was 12 years old. I grew up and we didn't have TV. So as a teenager, I couldn't go to bed early. So I'd turn on my clock radio today, Ramsey. And I didn't quite get everything at the time of what you were saying, but I started picking it up.

Starting point is 01:07:06 And then, I mean, it really just comes from my parents instilling, hey, if you're going to accomplish anything, you've got to work for it. So following your steps along the way, we did Financial Peace University right after we were married. And just, I mean, worked as a team together. Wow, very cool. Yep. So your mom and dad were doing this stuff, and then you're hearing the stuff on talk radio back in the day. Yes.

Starting point is 01:07:25 Yeah. And it was really just instilling, if you want anything in life. you have to work for it. So that was what my parents gave me. Then you gave me the tools to, you know, us to the tools to work together and accomplish this. We also bought a fixer upper that needed a lot of equity or a lot of sweat equity. Oh my gosh. I see the picture. So that's what it used to look like. And we worked really hard on it. And it's in Woodstock, which is where we wanted to grow up, wanted the kids to grow up. And it didn't even look like the same house. So that's where we live now. Yeah, that was the dream. Just putting, put our

Starting point is 01:07:57 hard work into it and not just expecting things to come to us and working for what we wanted. Looks like it started with a chainsaw. Yeah, that's right. Wow. And lots of poison ivy. Yeah. So the moment you bought it, you knew you were going to pay it off fast. Like you already.

Starting point is 01:08:10 Yes. That was the whole idea. Yes, definitely. We wanted to attack it, you know. So, Megan, I mean, when you're dating a guy that at 12 years old is listening to a financial show on talk radio before he goes to bed, you might be dating a nerd. I know. I learned this a lot from him.

Starting point is 01:08:27 And then he got me on to you, too. And I truly, he is a little bit of a nerd. So it sounds like he was an attractive nerd. He was. Tall, dark, and handsome. I was very, you know, the financial, yes. So, and I truly, I mean, once I learned it too, once we did financial peace, I was all in as well. We were just trying to do it together.

Starting point is 01:08:52 And I think that's one of the keys to. I was just doing it together. Well, you guys were going to be resilient. up again on YouTube in case someone is 23 years old and thinks it's impossible to buy a house, you can buy that house. Looks like a jungle. Put it back up there. It looks like a dead gum jungle.

Starting point is 01:09:07 Yeah. I mean, that's the, yeah. And you said it's worth 400 now? 450 now. Yeah, our neighborhood. Woodstock's sweet. Oh, we love it. It's a great area.

Starting point is 01:09:15 That's awesome. It's important to dream together. So it was actually, took us two years to convince this lady it was vacant to sell us the home and we would drive by and she would get annoyed at me. And I go, that's our home. See our home? And we didn't even have another contract yet, but we dream and we'd stare at it. And, you know, following the principles of going, hey, we wanted it to, we wanted a 15-year

Starting point is 01:09:34 mortgage, not more than 20% of our day on pay. How did you get her to sell it? Well, honestly, I was her friend for two years. She didn't know anyone else. And I honestly didn't think we were going to get it most of the time. But I said, I just told her if whenever she wants to sell, she'll think of us first. And one day after two years, she said, all right, I'm ready to sell. Yeah, we wrote her letters, drove to her.

Starting point is 01:09:56 her house at a different residence. She wasn't late. It was vacant. Yeah. It was vacant. It looked like it. Yeah. It was vacant.

Starting point is 01:10:02 It looked up in a different place and we drove there and got her phone number and they talked on the phone every month until she's decided to say. Until she relented. We're ready. Yeah. Wow. I love this guy. Wow.

Starting point is 01:10:15 And of course you cash flowed all the all the upgrades. We did. We did. We went down to the studs and it was, you know, I had some family help, but it was all us just working through it. We did gas electrical plumbing. We did the septic system and we did everything. So you pay, I just need America to hear this. You completely... The cash flowed all of that and paid off the $155.5. Right. Wow.

Starting point is 01:10:38 You're 206-year-olds that are whining, I can't buy a house right now. The rampers run the world. Oh, kiss my butt. These guys right here hold their beer. Look at this. It's unbelievable. Yeah, tell them what they need to know because there's a lot of naysayers out there. Tell them what they need to know. Absolutely. Dave, you preach it. I actually saw the bumper sticker over there. and I love it. And it was pray like everything depends on God and work like everything depends on you.

Starting point is 01:10:59 And that was us going into this. I tell everyone that'll listen. I'm annoying. I'll get passionate about it. But you're the problem. You're the solution. Work hard. There is, I can't stand anyone that says anything different,

Starting point is 01:11:10 but there's more opportunity in America than there has ever been an in-country for all of history. So work for it. It's easy to look at all the obstacles and say, hey, I can't do this. But roll up your sleeves and get to work. Work is underestimated and working together as a team. this has just helped us in our marriage.

Starting point is 01:11:26 And, you know, now we have a home for our kids, and we're just going to continue building the dream. You might drop. You can pull that headset off and slam it on the floor. No, don't. Don't do that. It looks expensive. Yes. I say to, like, just, you know, eat at home and practical things, like, being content with what you have,

Starting point is 01:11:48 not comparing yourself to the people around you and also just work inside hustles. We both worked during this whole process. I was stay-at-home mom, but also trying to help provide some income during that time. And Nathan worked really hard at his job just to work his way up, but also worked side-hustles. So do the things that are required to get to that point, but also just enjoy your life and be content with what you have already. Well, I mean, you're not even 30 years old. You have a paid $4.5 million house. You've got, you're well on your way to be in millionaires within the next probably 36 months or so.

Starting point is 01:12:24 The markets are moving and everything's happening. You guys are in really, really good shape. Congratulations. I'm very proud of you. I know your parents are proud of you. Thank you. Your children, your heroes, you have changed your family tree. So your secret is work at it and stick together.

Starting point is 01:12:39 Yeah. And just don't take no for an answer, you know. If someone tells you no, just figure another way to do it. Yeah. There's always another way. Another way to get it done. Wow. That's amazing.

Starting point is 01:12:48 I have one more question. When you went to buy this house, how did you, set your expectations because a lot of people would have seen that before you renovated and said that's not that's a shack I'm not going to spend my money on that how how did you know to do that well great question I mean my whole life it's been uh what do people we're so wealthy as a country people throw away great things that we can work hard and and make beautiful so going into it it was horrible looking on the inside but we were just looking and we had talked about it what are the bones what can't we change let's make sure that's good we can work hard

Starting point is 01:13:23 and everything else and change that. Change some paint colors, change the flooring. Just kind of see past that stuff on the outside and just look at the beauty on the inside. And there were no mold issues, no, like, foundation issues. Like, we were very blessed. God blessed us with this home, too. Like, we were put in all the right situations where we were like, this is not just coincidental.

Starting point is 01:13:48 That's awesome. So, so good, guys. Well, well, well, done. All right, bring the kiddos up. Let's get their names and ages. Oh, boy, are they cute. They are cute, cute, cute. Oh, there's more of them than I thought.

Starting point is 01:13:58 Thank you. Yes. They just keep coming. Yes. We paid it off when he was 10 days old. Oh, wow. What a guy. Yes.

Starting point is 01:14:06 Baby James. So what's his name? This is James. He's two months now. All right. And the girls? This is Emmy. She's five.

Starting point is 01:14:12 And then Lily is two. All right. Yes. Your parents are heroes. You don't even know it yet. You're too young. But someday you'll know they're the ones that change the family tree. Way to go.

Starting point is 01:14:22 All right, Nathan and Megan, count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream, $155,000 paid off in five years, making $140, almost baby steps millionaires, already at 30 years old. Let's hear it. Three, two, one, we're dead free! Wow. Those kids are cute. They are. I love it.

Starting point is 01:14:52 That's awesome. That's amazing, Dave. Wow. Amazing. Oh, it can't be done. We're all going to die. No, not if you're Nathan and Megan. They got it figured out, baby.

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Starting point is 01:16:12 Homebuyer Edge and seller guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only, and not available in all states or locations. NMLSID 1591, NMLS ConsumerExist.org, Eagle Housing Lender. Mark is in Mobile, Alabama. Hey, Mark, how are you? Doing good. How about you, Mr. Ranji? Better than I deserve.

Starting point is 01:16:50 What's up? I work offshore, and I make about 90,000. a year and I'm going 20 days out of the month and I'm home for 10 and my wife would like me home and I'd also like to be home too because later we'd also like to maybe start having kids and starting having the family. We are on baby step two and just wondering what y'all would think about that if I need to stay on the boat until we get baby step two paid off or would it still be okay to come home. I mean gosh, that's a long time.

Starting point is 01:17:27 I mean when you're, how long you're going to be gone? I mean, how much debt do you, how much debt do you have and how quickly you get paid off? So we have $23,000 in consumer debt beside our house. I bring home $5,800. Our bills is $3,600 roughly. And then we have $2,100 left over that we could put towards debt. Okay, so you'd be debt free in like 10 months, except your house. Yes, sir.

Starting point is 01:17:57 Okay. Yes, sir. And you make 90 and you're only coming home with 5,800. There's something wrong with that. Where's all that money going? That's a lot of withholding. So 90 is before taxes. And I do have insurances through work and I also have the life insurance policy through work that I took out a little bit extra. I'm in the process of getting rid of that life insurance policy and go under term life. Go ahead. Okay. Okay. And that'll cut. That'll increase your take-on pay as well.

Starting point is 01:18:30 What about your wife? What's she doing? She is not doing anything right now. She is in the process of going to the post office. So about March or April, she will be working at the post office. And what will that bring monthly and yearly? Roughly $3,500 a month. Okay.

Starting point is 01:18:55 So you're going to cut your pay by 30 or 40,000, and she's going to increase hers by 30 or 40,000 by you coming off the boat. Is that right? Yes, sir. You got a job lined up if you did that? I don't have a job lined up right now. I have been looking at different jobs. I just wanted to get someone's opinion on what they would do if they would finish paying that offer.

Starting point is 01:19:20 I mean, if you can line something up that's in line with when she starts working, do that in two seconds. Yeah, your, your household is going to have the same money coming in, agreed? Yes, sir. Okay. I mean, you're going to get something that's going to not to pay as much as a boat, but you're going to get something. I mean, you need to go search out the job market and figure out what you can land. You might land something almost as much as you're getting paid offshore. I don't think so, but you might. Yes, sir. Well, the job I'm looking at now, it starts out at 40,000 a year, and then within two years you can be bumped up to 70 to 80,000.

Starting point is 01:19:56 Doing what? So there is margin of being a steel mill worker in Mobile. Okay. All right. Well, here's the thing. We're not really cutting your income from 90 to 40. Really your household income is going to be the same because she's going to go to work and make up the difference. Is that a correct statement?

Starting point is 01:20:20 Yes, sir. Yeah, based on that, I'm coming home. Yes, sir. And take the steel mill job and let's get started. Because you're going to be out of debt in the same time as if she didn't work and you stayed on the boat. See? Yes, sir. You still ought to be able to get out of debt in eight or ten months.

Starting point is 01:20:40 And no eating out. Both of you take extra jobs, do everything you can. And you're still going to be home more doing this. that, then you would have been on the rig offshore. And, yeah, I think I am coming home based on all of this. But if the only part of the equation was I'm just simply going to cut my income in half, then I might stay 10 more months and knock it out. I think I would for the 10 months.

Starting point is 01:21:02 Yeah. I might stay another six months and knock it out, whatever. But, you know, the fact that she's going to be making up some of the difference, you're taking a job that's going to escalate an income over the next couple of years a lot, and you can pick up extra jobs and you can get on the every dollar budget and tighten up. I put all of that in there. Yeah, I'd want to come home. I don't. I mean, I've traveled a lot with what I do over the years, but I've never done, I mean, I'm never, very seldom have I done one month or 20 day stretches. Most of the time, it's a five day thing or a two day thing or something like that. I'm out and back. And that's not nearly as strenuous as being gone from the family, like an over-the-road truck driver or military being deployed or working offshore like this. That's right. And so, but you know, you can make some money.

Starting point is 01:21:49 And, you know, when the Iraqi war, for instance, was wrapping up, there was a lot of civilian positions where people could go over there for six months or eight months and make two or three hundred grand doing stuff. And people were doing that for a short period of time to, you know, to leapfrog forward. And that, I might be willing to do something like that if I was paying a price to win. Sure, sure. But I got to see the end to it. That's right.

Starting point is 01:22:13 And so, yeah, I think I would do that. I think I would do that. Yeah, she really is the key to this equation. Her working is the key to all of this. Exactly, exactly. And so if you guys start having kids, she doesn't get to quit unless your income has come up. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you're going to have to manage that and keep all that stuff tied in there together.

Starting point is 01:22:32 Sarah is with us in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Sarah. How are you? Good. Thanks, Dave, and Jade, for taking my call. Sure, what's up? I recently became guardian of my dad. He has dementia.

Starting point is 01:22:45 Oh, sorry. And we have moved him into a senior apartment. My question is about his finances. I'm not sure what to do with everything that he has, trying to honor what he has done and saved and worked for, but also what to do moving forward with all of his finances. We're going to sell his house. I'm not sure what to do with those funds.

Starting point is 01:23:12 Well, we would just manage it for his good, agreed? Yes. Does he have bills that need to be paid? Yes. How much debt does he have? No debt. Oh, that's good. So the only bills are this assisted living situation?

Starting point is 01:23:30 Yeah, it's not a problem of not enough money. I'm not sure what to do with all of his money. What will happen when you sell the house, how much will you have? About $400,000. And how much do you have now? in other accounts? He's got 355,000 in an IRA, 369,000 in a Roth, 177,000 in a non-retirement. And those are all three with the same financial institution.

Starting point is 01:24:03 Okay. And then in a bank, he's got $315,000, which I know I should move some of that, but I don't know what to do with it. So he's got like a million and a half dollars, so he's in really good shape. Way to go, Dad. Yes. Yeah. Good.

Starting point is 01:24:18 And you have full power of attorney. Guardianship, which is above power of attorney. Right. But I mean, you've got the ability to do with this as you will for his benefit. Yes. Yeah. Correct. So I would get on Ramsey Solutions.com and click on SmartVester Pro and sit and talk to one of the SmartVestor Pro financial advisors that we have endorsed.

Starting point is 01:24:39 They don't work for us, but they have the heart of a teacher. and say, I've got this million and a half dollars. I want to put it in a place that will care for him and that it will grow without much risk. And so I think you can pick out a series of low risk, not volatile mutual funds, something like some S&P type stuff, and let the money sit there and grow, and the growth will easily care for him. And you can put it in a situation where it's very easy to manage and without taking a big, huge boatload. risk and just sit there and talk to them and let their job is to teach you how to make these decisions on behalf of your dad.

Starting point is 01:25:21 Is it smarter to separate some of those funds and put them in two different financial places or is it better to keep it all in one? I would have it in one. Okay. Yeah, and just because, but you're making the decision of where it goes. So you could have it in several different mutual funds with one, financial advisor. Okay.

Starting point is 01:25:45 But you don't need two advisors. You're going to get crossed up. And, you know, you need to get someone. But you're not doing what they say to do. They are teaching you and they do what you say to do. Okay. That's how we're going to approach this. It's your job.

Starting point is 01:26:04 And they're there to help you do your job. We're not looking for a babysitter, a nanny. This is not a boarding school for money. you're still the parent. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios. Jade Washaw Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Tina is with us in Minneapolis. Hi, Tina.

Starting point is 01:27:01 How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I kind of got myself in a pickle. Uh-oh. I'm going to try and get through this, but it's so fresh that it's really hard.

Starting point is 01:27:18 My husband passed away about four years ago. He was in a nursing home for about four years before that. That ate up any money that we had saved. It was like $10,000 a month to have him there. And then he was on what's called Medicaid in Iowa, and now they're trying to sue me for $200,000 for his nursing home care. They want reimbursed. So the only thing I have that they,

Starting point is 01:27:48 That's just how... Is it because they didn't think you qualified? It turned out you didn't qualify? No. No, this is part of how to Medicaid. It's a state insurance, and they want their money back. They don't tell you that when you sign up for it. No, that's not how Medicaid works, honey.

Starting point is 01:28:04 You're confused. Well, that's what the state has... No, Medicaid is administered by the state. It's a federal program, and it's welfare for poor people. And if you go to a nursing home when you qualify based on your assets and your income, pays for it. And they don't get the money, and they don't get the money back. Yeah, well, they keep sending a deal saying I owe $200,000.

Starting point is 01:28:26 So when I... But why? Why do they think you owe $200,000? For his nursing home care. No, honey. If he qualified for Medicaid, he doesn't owe the $200,000. They're wanting it back because they think he didn't qualify. They think you have too much in income or assets.

Starting point is 01:28:44 Well, he was on disability, and I was on disability. So. Then you need to get an attorney to look at this and negotiate with Medicaid because Medicaid's gotten some bad information, it sounds like. But you don't automatically, they don't just automatically sue everybody that goes into nursing home of Medicaid. That's not how it works. It was about a month after he passed away. I got this bill in the mail for $200,000. You need to talk to an attorney about that.

Starting point is 01:29:12 Now, what's the other thing that we can help you with? Well, I sold the house because I just wasn't going to let them take that away from me. Because, you know, what they said is they can't come after me until I'm gone and passed away. And they were going to take whatever I owned as payment. And the house was too much for me anyway. I'm almost 60. So I sold it. And I got, you know, it's paid for.

Starting point is 01:29:36 So the money was mine. And I put her away in a trust account. and I had my daughter as trustee. She trusted her completely. She never did anything wrong with it. But unfortunately, when people realized I had the money, then all of the handouts came on, can you help me? Can you help me?

Starting point is 01:29:56 Can you help me? And unfortunately, I have a giving heart, and so I help them all expecting to get paid back. They all promised to get it paid back. And now all I get its excuses to get it paid back when I'm financially. struggling. So you gave away how much money? $69,000. So what are you living on now? You're living on disability now? Yeah, disability.

Starting point is 01:30:23 What's the nature of your disability? I have anxiety and panic attacks. So, like stroke-level panic attacks. They look like I'm having a heart attack. Yeah. Are you being treated for all of that? Yeah, I just can't work. I went back to school to do billing and coding. I've been medical for 20 plus years, and somebody else paid for me to go back to school. So I'm taking that advantage so I can try to get a job working from home. But unfortunately, the catch 22 is they want you to have three years experience before they'll hire you to work for a month. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:31:04 So are you able to live on your disability income? Well, I was until, I mean, I found a cheaper apartment. I was an apartment that was like 875 amounts plus utilities, and I found another one that's half of that. Good. So are you able to live on your disability now? Well, I am, except for the debt that I've accumulated by living in that more expensive. Oh, how much debt did you run up? Well, I was working, and I bought a car.

Starting point is 01:31:39 because I needed a bend of a vehicle, so I owe 20 grand on it, and then I got two credit cards. Where's the car? The card's in my garage right now. I can't even sell it. It's not worth what I owe on it. Yeah, but it is worth something, and you could get rid of it and cut most of that dead away. Because you're living on nothing. You can't afford a $21,000 car in your garage, hon.

Starting point is 01:32:03 Right. That's got to be sold. I was planning on getting another job, but it just seems like, I'm just running into brick walls. Yeah. Well, the first thing we've got to do is quit digging the hole, okay? Right. So, yeah, you need an attorney to represent you and keep Medicaid off of you.

Starting point is 01:32:21 You need to start talking to your relatives about trying to get some of your money back. I don't think you'll ever see any of it again. I don't think that's gone. That was obviously a huge mistake. You were not in a position to be generous, regardless of what your heart was telling you. And you were in a situation. that you needed generosity, not the other way around. Right, right.

Starting point is 01:32:43 And so, yeah, I think, and then you guys start talking about how we can get a $5,000 car and get rid of this $21,000 car because you can't afford it. And so start making some moves in that regard. You haven't hit a brick wall. You just keep having these same, these different things occur. And then you step into something. You step into, I give away $51,000 or I buy a $21,000 car I can't afford. And see, there's a $70,000.

Starting point is 01:33:09 swing right there. Yes. Just in this story. And if we had that $70,000 back, you'd be in a completely different scenario. And, you know, you give an attorney five grand and they'll make the Medicaid thing go away. I hope. I hope he was qualified to go into a Medicaid nursing home. It looks like unless somebody else was supposed to be responsible for it.

Starting point is 01:33:31 So if you received any type of settlement, they can come back. If he was injured in any kind of accident and somebody else's insurance should have paid they can pay for it up front and then want that money back. So I would do due diligence on that. We don't know any of the nature surrounding him going into that facility, but you should look into that and find out and make sure there is nothing on your end that might have triggered that. Yeah, but most of the time, Medicaid is a welfare program that provides nursing home for free and you don't have to pay it back for people that are certifiably poor. That's right. It's a welfare program. And they don't automatically come and want the money back. So the fact that they've done that tells me that they believe something that's not true or he didn't qualify.

Starting point is 01:34:21 Yeah. And you guys took care from the welfare system that you shouldn't have. And then if that's the case, you've got a mess. But hopefully that's not the case. Hopefully there's just some confusion about the way the paperwork was filled out. And this thing can be made to go away. And that's most of the time what it is when you're dealing with these bureaucrats. that's how the deal works.

Starting point is 01:34:40 So just keep chipping away at the different parts of this, Tina, and I think you can make your way through it. If you've been working the plan, paying off debt saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back, March 14 through 21, 2027. Join the Ramsey personalities and me as we sail to Half Moon Key, Cozumel, Jamaica, and Grand Cayman on the ultimate debt-free vacation.

Starting point is 01:35:51 Cabins will sell out just like last time. Lock in yours with a $600 deposit at ramsysolutions.com slash events. Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. If you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, you can head over to the website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. You'll get an answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. Might be a little nicer.

Starting point is 01:36:44 Ask your question today at Ramsey Solutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on a podcast or on YouTube. Folks, if you're debt-free, the Live Like No One Else Cruise is your chance to celebrate. Hang out with us. I'm going to be there. All the Ramsey personalities are going to be there. Sharon will be with us. We've got new sessions on building wealth, live episodes of our shows, and the world's largest debt-free scream on the Live Like No One Else Cruise. This is premium cruise line, the best of the best. We're going to be doing the Western

Starting point is 01:37:20 Caribbean this time, which means Jamaica Mon. Yeah, secure your cabin with a $600 deposit. We're going to be going one year, from March on March 27. Wow. This thing is getting close to being sold out a year away, so you want to go and get your cabin reserve now.

Starting point is 01:37:39 Ramsey Solutions.com slash events. Book your cabin today, Ma'an. All right, here we go. Salt Lake City is with us. Tiffany's calling. Hey, Tiffany. Hey, Dave.

Starting point is 01:37:50 Hi, hi, Jade. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? First of all, I'm so nervous, so bear with me. I can feel my heart pounding in my ear. Okay.

Starting point is 01:38:02 We've never lost a patient. You're going to make it. I hope I'm not going to be the first. Well, first of all, thank you. I'm so honored to talk to you guys. You are part of my, I don't know, you became part of my life. I listened to you guys. You're kind of the dad that, you know, I wish I would have.

Starting point is 01:38:22 And, Jay, you're like such a bad-ass sister. I just, I, you guys are amazing. Thank you, friend. We're glad you're here. Okay, so here's my little dilemma. How do I get strategically? Sorry, English is my second language. I'm actually from a different country, Europe. How do I get strategically? Strategically. Oh, Lord, you guys know what I mean. Strategically? Thank you. Hey, just the whole world is listening. That's fine.

Starting point is 01:38:53 My family have loaned me so far $2.1 million. My husband and I, we own two companies. We have a framing company, steel framing company, where we do regular framing for residential new construction and the roof trusses. And we do have a construction company where we actually built. the spec homes. Do you make money? At the point not, we finally started making some money, or at least it looks better on paper, I guess. It took us about two years to everything started in 2022. We got $1.2 million from a family member to start a company where we got the machines to do those framings.

Starting point is 01:39:50 I'm on steel coils and you basically just, you know, form and build whatever you need. In 2023, we got another $200,000. And in 2024, we got another $500,000. Our family are new developers as well. So they bought a bunch of land over 750 acres and started developing or just finished their first development. and we're going to be able to build 30 homes out of 50. And that's kind of why we risk it to get in that whole dilemma. My issue here is besides that we keep getting loans,

Starting point is 01:40:33 got another $200,000 from another family member. And right now we're in the process of applying for first official loan from the bank because we just keep running out of money. We sell finance-ish, I would say. self-finance the spec homes. So every penny that we make, we put it into the homes, we sell it, and then that profit we meanly take into the next house. Okay, so this is not working. Even if you sold, even if you did 50 of the 50 homes, would this make you right side up? No.

Starting point is 01:41:07 At some point, there's the hope. No. But I have another. You can't just keep borrowing money because you can't seem to make money. Well, and here comes another big issue. I do the books for our company, and I just found out that in 2025, my husband started day trading without my knowledge. And so he tanked over $113,000. I spoke to him last week about it, and he's a lot. But, yeah, he asked up. He was hoping to make fast money because nothing really worked out last year.

Starting point is 01:41:53 And no, there's $80 left. Exactly. How do I need help to know how do we get out of the mess? And besides that, we have a two and a four-year-old, of course, on top of that. So the first thing is that if he ever comes close to day training again, you can tell him that he's no longer your husband. There's too much stress here, and that is a breach of trust. He lied to you, and he stole the money.

Starting point is 01:42:31 Yep, I told him that to you. I told him. This is not okay. This is not okay. This is really crooked, bad stuff for anybody to do to their spouse. Number one. Number two, you guys need to sit down and look at this business model and figure out when you're going to start making money, and it needs to be tomorrow. You guys need to sell some stuff off.

Starting point is 01:42:52 You need to quit trying to do so dead gum much. Y'all, y'all haven't made anything yet. All you've done is borrow money and waste it. Yeah, I mean, at least not enough. Like on papers, example, in 2020. There's no such thing as on paper. If on paper you made money, you would have some money. Like in 2024, we made $850,000 gross.

Starting point is 01:43:17 Where did it go? In the other homes. then again the other homes and then... So you're building these homes and you're financing them and carrying the paper? No, we're building them. I know. If you build them and don't you sell them? Yes, we do.

Starting point is 01:43:36 So if you put $150,000 in homes and build them, don't you get a million and a half out when you sell them? Well, you don't they're like smaller homes. So we're like doing usually between $400 and $450. Okay, but I mean, aren't you getting the money back out? Don't you turn around to sell the house? If you build a house, don't you turn around sell it, make money? That's how most builders do. it. So you should be making money. Where's all the stinking money going? You didn't put it in the

Starting point is 01:44:01 house and then it disappeared. You put it in the house and you turn around sold the house. You said before that it was broken into two businesses. I wonder if the construction business is the problem and you need to just focus on the steel framing. Or the other way around. And the overhead costs are just ridiculous. We pay over $25,000 almost a month. I don't know if you know what profit is. Do you know what profit is? I love when you ask that. Okay. You need to have your income minus your outgo equals your profits.

Starting point is 01:44:34 And you haven't made money because all you've done is borrow $2 million and you have no money. So you don't have any profits on paper or otherwise. Because if you have profit on paper, honey, you have money in the bank. There's no on paper profit. There's no such thing. If my paper says I have a profit, I need to look over in the checking account and see the stinking money there. That's how this works. So if you put $400,000 into a house and you sell it for $500,000, you should not only get your $400 back.

Starting point is 01:45:08 You should get an extra $100 back. So there should be $500 laying over there after that house sells. That's how this works. And so y'all suck at this. You need to get in there and get somebody to come alongside you and figure out how to run these bills. businesses, or you need to sell them and pay your family back and go get some jobs. And if he ever goes near a day trading keyboard again, dad's gone, man, that's the end of that. That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. But y'all been running this without making a profit for four

Starting point is 01:45:39 years, and that's just dumb. You've got to figure this out. You've got to get, you got to turn this thing around or get out of the business. You cannot borrow your way into profitability. That's an impossibility. How many times have you started January saying, this is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control. But then months go by and you still feel broke. You work too hard to keep living like that. Look, there's only one way to move the needle on your finances this year. You've got to have a plan.

Starting point is 01:46:25 So start by downloading every dollar. Every dollar is way more than our world-class budgeting app. In 15 minutes, we'll build you a personalized plan to free up extra margin in your budget and use it to beat debt and build wealth. You'll find thousands of dollars on average just the first day. And you'll get new steps and new lessons every day that help you stay on track and create unstoppable momentum. Don't waste one more day feeling broke and stressed.

Starting point is 01:46:53 Get your plan in just 15 minutes by downloading every dollar for free today. Well, we love debt-free screams. We love them in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on our debt-free stage. we super love them when it's one of our Ramsey team members. T.J. is with us here with his wife Alice, and he's a project manager on the Every Dollar team. Been with us about a year, and they get to come in here and do their debt-free scream. Welcome, guys. Thank you. Good to have you. How nerve-wracking is this?

Starting point is 01:47:34 It's, we're here. And it's finally real. I love it. How much have you paid off? $165,000. I love it. How long did that take? 15 months. Awesome. Okay. And you've been here about a year, so you started on it before. How long y'all been married?

Starting point is 01:47:53 One year and eight months. Oh, wow. So moving here, getting married, starting the debt-free journey all in the last two years. Yep. Yes. Wow. Where'd you move from? Central Illinois, but we're originally from the Chicagoland. Okay. All right. So you got married. Did you come to Nashville to take the Ramsey job? Yep. Okay. The project manager at every dollar. Well, that's awesome.

Starting point is 01:48:13 So you people out there that are using every dollar to get out of debt, it's all T.J.'s fault. All the things that are awesome about it, it's all T.J.'s fault. He's one of the many talented folks we got on that team really, really working on this. So what kind of debt was the $165,000? Yeah, it was 107 in student loans, and then 58 in new cars. This was before learning about Ramsey. Right, got you. Okay. Very cool. How's it feel to be free? Liberating. Liberating, peaceful. It was the best sleep we've ever got. Oh, I've gotten the past two years was October 30th when we had made our final payment. Filled in the rest of that.

Starting point is 01:48:55 I saw the thermometer that we had up there. Filling that in, calling those that supported us all along the way and just being able to cheer it. So how did the order of events go about learning about doing the Ramsey stuff, coming to work here, getting married, all that? How's that all that line up? So we got the total money makeover as a wedding gift. Okay. It was not on our registry. We were not familiar.

Starting point is 01:49:20 It seldom is. So TJ read the book about three times, and then he started on this journey to try to coerce me into reading it. He was saying that it's Bible-based, which really resonated with me. And then he was like, Dave's really funny, which I was like, hmm, let me see for myself. And I loved it. we had a conversation where we had combined our finances after getting married and realized that we had $2,800 of minimum payments. And we didn't feel like we were able to really live, even though

Starting point is 01:49:53 we had two pretty good incomes. Very cool. What do you do? I'm a nurse. Awesome. Very cool. Good. Yeah, that is two good incomes. Excellent. Well done, y'all. Yeah. Okay. So you get married, you get the book, and you get on the same page, and then how does he end up with this job? That's weird. Well, it all came down to, we were Dave-ish. Around Thanksgiving, I got to talk to my Uncle Matt and Aunt Gina,

Starting point is 01:50:17 who were the ones that gifted us, Total Money Makeover, and we're like, we're doing it, we're doing it. And they were like, are you really doing it? Oh. And we were like, well, we have 20,000 savings while we're trying to pay down the debts. We paid for our wedding and anything that was a gift we just threw at debt. And I'm like, that felt good. Let's keep going.

Starting point is 01:50:35 and they were like, hey, check out their website for additional resources. And I was like, okay, cool. So I started looking around. I saw there was a careers page. I'm like, all right, let's see what this is all about. Saw some jobs. I was like, I could probably do that. I applied.

Starting point is 01:50:49 Previous role, I applied for hundreds of jobs. And then I eventually got my one. I was like, all right, Lord, if you open up the doors for me, I'm going to continue to walk through them. And however, was it 12 steps to get here, a hiring process. Yeah. But, you know, it really felt like, God. called me here, able to serve, be able to be here, and help spread hope to other people. That's really awesome. So what are you going to do to celebrate? We did. We did. We bought a king

Starting point is 01:51:16 size bed. Yay. I lost that. Basis, best sleep of my life. Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's exactly right. I thought he was sleeping better because he got out of debt. I did too, but they got a new mattress. It's because he got a new mattress is what it was. That's great. That's excellent. Very cool. All right. So what advice do you have? What do you tell people when they say, how did you do that? you pay off $165,000 newly married in 15 months. That's over $10,000 a month. Yeah, God's blessings for sure. Everything kind of had to come right together.

Starting point is 01:51:48 We wrote down October of 2025. And when we were writing that, I'm like, everything is going to have to come up right in order for this to happen. And God's blessings allowed us to be there. New opportunity, she was travel nursing. Good money. Which is where a lot of all of that came from. That's good money.

Starting point is 01:52:06 And it took a lot of sacrifice. I mean, I had to move down here, and I was here for about a month and a half before she got to come down after the contract. That is a big sacrifice. So she was doing some roles that were about an hour and a half away, so a lot of long commute. And I appreciate all the sacrifices that we were able to make. Both of us taking up multiple jobs to be able to get there. And just want to be an inspiration in others. So working here can be a mixed blessing because everybody's like, everybody's doing that.

Starting point is 01:52:35 You know, it's like the positive peer pressure, but it's also pressure. I mean, was it helpful to have your team, you know, all up in your business or, you know, your buddy's cheering you on? Or was that a back? I mean, they're all standing out there. You better be nice. But, I mean, is it helpful to be in this kind of environment when you're doing it or not? I think it could work against you. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:52:57 At least I can tell my side. It's been extremely, it's a support system. If we didn't believe in it, then yes, I think it would be a whole lot of different pressure. they were like, oh, I don't really want to do it, but we believed in it. We know that it was going to be good for us, changing our family tree, going through Financial Peace University, really seeing the whole scope of where your life can change and being able to use every dollar to keep us on track and on budget. It was a blessing for us because as far as our friends and family, it's still kind of a mixed

Starting point is 01:53:24 bag as far as, you know, their thoughts on our journey. So we committed to it. It was amazing for a T. It was amazing for a T. to be a working environment where we got that support. So it ultimately was such a blessing. Yeah, cool. Very cool.

Starting point is 01:53:39 Any setbacks on the way? Right after we get out of it. I had two, we had some health stuff that came up. So we got debt free and then we were able to cash flow 10K and medical expenses. And now we're tackling on taxes. But we were able to cash flow at all. Car repairs and all that. We were able to cash flow it as we went.

Starting point is 01:54:00 So it's about time to celebrate with some of it. Oh my gosh. Indeed. Indeed. Enough already. So you're working on every dollar, your project manager on every dollar. The journey and now the freedom has to affect how you look at all those projects. Yeah. Just. I mean, you're not agnostic anymore. You're in it. You're able to just focus. It's being able to say, okay, this, I'm a product of this. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:54:30 I believed in it. It makes it that much more motivating people to come in every single day, come into work, knowing that I made a difference not only for myself, but for everyone outside of these walls, which I know we preach very dearly here. It's truly inspiring. It's just so nice to be a part of it, something that you believe in, and you're able to say, I'm affecting this. I'm changing this.

Starting point is 01:54:51 I'm trying to make this better. I'm trying to make it easier to work the Ramsey plan. And that's all the motivation you need. Amen. Amen. I'm proud of y'all. Yeah, excellent job. And the team's out here gathered and none of them are working.

Starting point is 01:55:03 They're all here to cheer you on. And this is great. I'm glad they're here to cheer you on. It's very, very cool. Congratulations you two. Thank you. Very well done. All right.

Starting point is 01:55:11 We don't ask, I'm going to have team members on. We don't ask their household income because all their friends are standing around and that's not fair. But they did pay off $165,000 in 15 months. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're different! This is how you do it, ladies and gentlemen.

Starting point is 01:55:43 Love it. Man. You know, I can't imagine coming to work in a place like this right after I got married. The place I went to work right after I got married was bad. I mean, lucky for them, it's great because now you're submerged by everything you need to get off on the right foot financially. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's like you don't have a choice around here. Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, you're on stage this morning, staff meeting doing Walk the Talk.

Starting point is 01:56:09 Oh, yeah. We have a whole system here where we're not being hypocrites. The people at work here need to be doing the stuff we teach, you know, hello. 100%. The non-hypochrist system. Walk the talk, right. On your honor. That's right.

Starting point is 01:56:21 Yeah, and these guys, they did it. I'm so proud of them, $165,000. They were smoking it. 15 months. Man, let's get it done. Get her done. Hey, good folks, Dr. John Deloney here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays?

Starting point is 01:57:09 Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at Ramsey Solutions.com slash careers. That's ramsysolutions.com slash careers.

Starting point is 01:57:34 Our scripture of the day is 1 Corinthians 1558. Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. Thomas Sowell said there are people who go through the motions and people who get the job done. It's amazing how much work you can accomplish just by hiring the ladder and firing the former. Amen. Charlie is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hey, Charlie, how are you?

Starting point is 01:58:27 Better than I deserve. How are you, Dave? Just the same. What's up? Yeah, so my wife and I, we have two young kids, and this mom, we just got that free, so we pay off the mortgage. Good for you. There you go. Thank you. Thank you. So the question, is so I have a pretty good job. My wife, she stays home. My dad, he is in his 70s. He's still working, partly because maybe a series of poor financial decisions. So he cannot retire

Starting point is 01:59:04 because he has to continue to financially support other family members, adult family members in the family overseas. And so I'm a bit twice. Because I don't have any dad. I can help, but I also don't want to continue to encourage bad behaviors. So I'm kind of torn apart in seeking some of the idea. So what do you make? 600,000. Wow, good for you.

Starting point is 01:59:35 And what is it you're being torn about? What is it you're being asked to do or that you're doing? I want my dad to be able to enjoy retirement life. but he chose to give all his money to somebody overseas? Well, he lives overseas, so he doesn't live here in the States. Yeah, we are immigrants. Okay, from which country? Korea.

Starting point is 02:00:00 Okay, all right. And so he lives overseas, and he's 70 years old, and he doesn't, he has the money to support himself, but he doesn't because he gives it to other family members. Correct. Okay, all right. What's the situation with the other family members? they ill? Are they unable to work? Can he stop doing that today? Or is the damage completely done? Well, I say it's a multi-fold, right? So, you know, some of the family member, he support them

Starting point is 02:00:30 just to help them with their lifestyle choices. And some of the family members, they chose not to work because, you know, some of the poor choices they made in a past. So that makes it very for them to find jobs. So basically my dad has been paying for everything, you know, for as long as I know. What happened if he couldn't? That's the big question. So we don't know. So do you give your money? Huh? Are you being asked to give your father money so that he can work and give them money? He makes good money. But I'm worried he probably doesn't have enough safe for his own time. What's the equivalent? give us an equivalent in U.S. dollars of what he makes over there? Oh, he makes $250,000.

Starting point is 02:01:25 And he's 70 years old. Okay, so let me stop. What's the problem? The problem is he gives all of his money away and he's going to retire with nothing and ask you to help him. Is that the problem? The problem is, you know, I don't know if that's going to make the problem worse because I'm worried that if I give him the money,

Starting point is 02:01:48 the money just go through other family members. No, I wouldn't give him anything. I'm just asking, today you're not giving him anything, so there's not a problem other than you're observing that in the future, there's getting ready to be something happening, right? Correct. I'm anticipating. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Starting point is 02:02:06 Okay. All right. So what you're anticipating is that he's going to run out of the ability to work and not have any money because he's given all of his away. Yes. Yeah. At that point, you can decide how much you. want to help him. I mean, and you'll have the money too. You make $600,000, but we're not going to

Starting point is 02:02:24 help him to the tune that he has enough to help everybody else, only to the tune that he has enough to help himself. I'm guessing, because I'm a redneck hillbilly and I don't know these things, but I'm guessing that part of this might be cultural. It is very cultural. Yeah, because I mean in the, you know, in the Latino world, for instance, it's very normal to have a more of a family obligation to support parents than we would have in a typical gringo culture, right? My hillbilly culture, you know, you're not required to do that. Puritan ethics, so to speak, you're not required to do that, right? But in an Asian culture where you're talking about or the Latino culture, it's more

Starting point is 02:03:14 normalized to be asked to expected to and you've grown up with it your whole life. It's integrated into your DNA that this is how things are done. Is that correct? Yeah, that's 100% correct. Yeah, and I'm thinking that may lend itself to why he's giving all of his money away as well, even though someone in my seat would look at that and go, why are you doing that? And the answer is it's a cultural difference to do that. It doesn't make it smart, doesn't make it dumb, it's just an explanation, right? So mathematically, we can all agree it's dumb, but there's a reason that he's doing it. It's not just straight up irresponsibility, although it is intertwined into this cultural icon. So, yeah, I, you know, I think I'd talk to him

Starting point is 02:04:02 about it if he'll listen, but I bet he doesn't and just say, Dad, you know, you need to be aware that when you are broke, I will be helping you only with food and shelter, not with enough to for you to further on your giving of these other people. So these other people, when you run out of gas and aren't able to work, are going to be on their own. And they should know that now because I'm not going to be held to this standard. I think it's okay to go ahead and communicate that, but I don't think it's going to change what's going to occur.

Starting point is 02:04:37 What's going to occur is what you expect. I think that's exactly what's going to happen. Do you, Jade? I do. I think he's 70 years old and he's been making. this decision for a long time, and it would be a miracle if he stopped today. Yeah, and he's old school within that culture. Yes.

Starting point is 02:04:53 And he's duty bound. Yep, yep. And going to follow through on his duty to take care of them, no matter how irresponsible or, you know, bad decisions they've been making. He's going to do it anyway. I think, aren't you, Charlie, you agree with that? I agree, I agree 100%. I tried to have a conversation 10 years ago.

Starting point is 02:05:11 Yeah. You really go anywhere. Yeah, you're right. decided to focus on my own and try to get that free and protect the family, you know. The hard part for you, Charlie, is going to be to hold that boundary when the time comes because you're likely going to feel guilty and all these other things. But it wasn't your, you didn't make the choice, right? He did.

Starting point is 02:05:32 And that's the thing that you'll have to remind yourself of many, many times. And you'll be able to help him to a reasonable degree. Absolutely. But not an unreasonable degree. And it's not going to be, it's not going to make everybody happy. No one in the end of the story is going to be thrilled with the outcome. But great news is you make a huge income and you're going to be in a wonderful position financially. And if you want to reach over and help somebody a little bit every month, you can do that and you won't even notice mathematically.

Starting point is 02:06:00 And so that's the thing. So not accounting for cultural differences. And you have to account for that. So it's not fair to say that. But you just, folks, you need to plan to not be a burden on your children. Yeah, you do. And you said it exactly right. You know, it might be a reason for a behavior, but it doesn't make it right or good.

Starting point is 02:06:22 That's true. And the same way that Charlie was able to look at that and go, that doesn't make sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He comes right. Right. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:06:30 It comes right straight out of that. So. So. Yeah. You just got to go, um, no. Yeah. You can't. Don't park your brain at the door.

Starting point is 02:06:37 We're not going to participate in that. It doesn't make sense. Yep. And I've learned a better way. Yes. And that can happen. You could learn that. I could learn that from his culture.

Starting point is 02:06:45 You can learn that from my culture. It doesn't matter. You could learn a better way. That's right. But the hard part is he's going to have to do that at the expense of hurt feelings. Hurt feelings and family meals and all that stuff is going to be very different. When you draw boundaries like that, people don't like it and they push up against them and all that stuff. Count on it.

Starting point is 02:07:04 Good luck to you. That puts us our of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

The Ramsey Show - This Family Drama Has a Gravitational Pull

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