The Ramsey Show - This Is Your Brain on Debt

Episode Date: November 7, 2024

📱Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. Rachel Cruze & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: "My parents are threatening to kick me out" "I can't afford rent, what can I do?" "My husband doesn't trust me with our money," "How will I ever be able to afford a home?" Sports betting is affecting Americans' investing habits. Support Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp 🏥 Learn more about Christian Healthcare Ministries 🏡 Get started today with Churchill Mortgage 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe 🏦 Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle! 🥗 Save 15% on your first Field of Greens order with code RAMSEY 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🗂️ Use promo code RAMSEY for18% off at The Nokbox 🏛Get started with YRefy or call 844-2-RAMSEY 🔐 Visit Zander Insurance for your free instant quote today! Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan 🎄You could win $5,000 in the Ramsey Christmas Cash Giveaway! 🎟️ Get Tickets to the Money & Relationships Tour 🏖️ Invest in Your Future With a SmartVestor Pro 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of SmartVestor Pros. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author, Dr. John Deloney. And we are answering your questions about life, money, relationships, career, anything and everything. So give us a call at triple 8, 825-5225.

All right, we're gonna go to the phones and is it Torin from Boston? Hey, welcome to the show. Hey guys, thank you guys for taking my call. Absolutely. Is it Torin? Did I get that right? Yep, that's perfect. Awesome. How can we help? So I'm an 18 year old and I'm a senior in high school this year and I wanted pretty much advice on what to tell my parents about college.

I've been watching you guys for a while now and I know the biggest thing was, you know, don't go into debt, don't take out loans if you can, try and cash flow it. So I figured I would want to go to a cheaper school. I was in Massachusetts so it's a community college is free. So I figured I would go there and I could transfer to a state school where it's an 100% acceptance rate after out of the community college I want to go to and my parents were very against this idea they wanted me to go play a sport in college and go to a private university they told me like that doesn't matter and yeah I just

want to make sure you know I was making the right decision because they don't agree with it. Are they paying for it? They're not paying for it. Yeah, they don't get a vote then. I brought that up, but they said they're gonna be kicking me out so I'll have to pay for housing. They also like take the car and my phone away. I mean, if they wanna throw a grownup temper tantrum,

that's like the most babyish thing of ever. Wait, yeah, I wanna know more why? That's so, that feels very extreme. Like it's one thing if your parents kinda like turn their nose up at community college because they're very educated. And New England's like, yeah, yeah, it's like, oh my gosh, can't believe you're gonna go to community

college, but to kick you out and take your car and your phone, I mean, that's a... Or if they said... Is there a religious element to this? Like to go to a Catholic school, I don't know, or like any level of like a religion conviction there? No, I don't really understand why they just said it would look bad on resumes and I think I'm making the wrong decision. They said I was being pretty

rude about it so I think that's why. Well, I have no problem with the parents saying hey as for me in my house you're going to this school and we're paying for it and if you want to go somewhere else you're on your own. I have no problem with that at all. That happens all the time. And if they say, hey, in this house, we go to Harvard. And so we've created this fund and you're going to Harvard if you get in.

I have no problem with that. If they tell you, you will not go to that school that you can afford, which is free, you will go take out loans and put yourself behind for the next 15 years of your life or 20 years of your life, depending on what private school you go to. And if you don't do that, we're gonna take your cellphone and we're gonna take our ball

and we're gonna go home. We're not playing with you anymore. That just sounds like real childish, immature behavior. Cause what they're doing is they're asking you to have all the skin in the game and they're just gonna sit on the sidelines and holler at you. I thought the same thing. I don't really know what their plan was for it.

Yeah, is this out of character for them? Like were you shocked by this or is this like, yeah, yeah, I can see mom and dad doing this. I already knew that they didn't want me living there after I was 18. They said they would help me out a little bit before. It was definitely out of character. For them to like to once they kind of like said like my mom said I could keep the car. My dad was very against keeping the car for that. But were you being a jerk dude? Were you being an 18 year old just like a turd or you being kind and thoughtful? I will admit for like the first like 30 minutes talked about I was very kind and peaceful and then I started to I

Was I was not as nice but sure we've been to them. All right I spent my whole career working with 18 year olds go tell your parents. You're sorry All right, go be respectful 18 year old son and say hey I got fired up and I acted like a kid and I'm sorry I do not want to go into debt for college and I respect your I respect you want your kids you want to be able to Tell your friends that your kid graduated from this college and I get that you don't you don't like this. Don't say that that's disrespectful. I know that was me just having a little bit of a moment but like um like she wants to be able to go to bridge club and tell like well

my kid is Rachel we used to call it we used to call it the uh we used to call it the soccer mom scholarship. I worked at one university. We would lose students. We would give somebody a half scholarship, I'm sorry, the tuition was, I'm making up a number, 20 grand. And they would go to another school that cost 50 grand, but they got a $1,000 JV soccer scholarship, and we would lose them. Which is a, right, it's a $30,000 a year move,

a $120,000 move. To play JV soccer. So that parents could be like, oh, my kid's playing on a soccer scholarship. Yeah. Right, it costs them money, like six figures, right? It's a thousand dollar scholarship. Is that true?

But I would tell your parents you're sorry, and then you have to make an 18 year old decision. Yeah, and Torrin, let me say this too. Okay. And John's the education nerd. He loves education, so he can maybe back me up on this. Just for perspective, so you're in Boston and we have friends that came from that area

and the way even the Northeast, I would say even specifically, the way they view education, there is a high- Premium. High regard, like it is everything. When you come to the South, it's important. Say it Rachel.

It's important, but it's not life. Like there's a belief of like, you can scratch and claw and start a business and be as successful as the guy that has the college degree. Like, you know, I mean, whether you go to college or not, there's kind of a Mike Rowe, like just kind of get in there and you figure it out and you can still be successful, but it doesn't have this air about it,

which I'm not saying all New England's have that, but I do think as an 18 year old that's growing up in that environment, I mean, you're in Boston, like it's, so just know there's a world outside of that, not that we have it right necessarily, I'm not saying that, but you can be successful, you can meet people and network outside of a college,

like there are ways to live life that is not one path of just it has to be this prestigious education. If you don't get this, it's going to look bad on resumes. You're never going to get a job. You're going to be homeless and you're going to die. Like that's not the route. That's not right. So just know there is more to life outside of possibly the bubble in which education is talked about in your family. And for whatever it's worth. But John loves it, so just maybe he'll talk. I love it, but I've got a,

I think one of the most mission-minded institutions in the United States can be found inside of community colleges. And for whatever it's worth, my mom, Dr. Delaney, the first Dr. Delaney was my mother, who graduated in her 50s with her PhD, started at a community college as a tenured full professor right so so you can here's what you can do with a

community college education anything you want to period maybe you have to work harder get job number one fine but by the way you're gonna transfer out right you'll go to a state school or to a private wherever you end up on a transfer out yeah there's a yeah there to a state school or to a private school, wherever you end up on a transfer out. Yeah, there's a program called Math Transfer and it guarantees acceptance as well as some other scholarships as long as you maintain a certain grade point average in a community college. Man, that's good. You're right on. And you know, and for fun too, Torrin, like just run some numbers on the ROI of the private college that you'd go into debt for, average interest rate on a student loan, how long that would probably take you to pay off

if you got out of school with an average, maybe an above average salary, let's say, run those numbers out, having to repay that, starting in a financial hole, significantly six figures probably for the school, versus getting through it debt free, doing the free community college, working, saving up, graduating from state school, starting off and starting to invest the moment

you get your first paycheck because you're gonna have money and not be in a hole. Financially from the math perspective, who comes out ahead? Oh yeah, especially getting started. Good for you, Torrin. I'm proud of you for thinking outside the box, but be nice to your parents. Yeah, be respectful. Treat your parents with dignity. And for everybody, I love private schools. I've worked at multiple private schools. I would love for my kids, like I love private schools.

I just don't like parents lobbing grenades at their kids and saying, hey, to prop us up, you go do this thing that's going to cost you 10, 20 years of your life for making us feel good. I don't like that. Hey you guys I'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know which ones I mean but I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members and I'm proud to endorse Fair Wind's credit union because they share the Ramsey mission

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We are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Up next we have Linda in Dallas, Texas. Hey Linda, welcome to the show. Thank you. Absolutely. How can we help? Well, I'm retired and I get less than 2,000 months. I can't afford rent and I don't qualify for low income housing. How do I survive? Yeah, you're in a mess, hon. How old are you? 68.

68. And is the 2000 from social security? No, 905 is from social security. Is that in addition to the 2000 or that's included? No, that's included in the 2000. Okay. And where are you getting the other money from? I'm in the middle of a divorce.

I'm supposed to be getting pension, part of my ex-husband's pension. Okay. You're supposed to be getting it or that's what you're getting? No, I know. He's paying me. They're not paying me. Is he going to pay you though? I don't know.

You. Okay. Do you know when you'll know that? Like, I wonder just how long you'll be in this specific situation for. Uh, yes, in a while. Um, I'm assuming after my divorce is finalized, I will know. Okay. Linda, why are you getting divorced at 68 years old? What happened? Domestic violence. Oh Lord, I'm sorry. Thank you. There is no easy way to say

what I'm about to say, okay? Is that cool? Sure. I'm sure you're tired of people telling you that same exact line, aren't you? T tired of people telling you that same exact line aren't you tired of lawyers telling you that and everybody telling you that aren't you? Listen That there's no easy way to say what I'm about to say oh yeah, yeah There's there's there's literally only two ways two things you can do with money you can spend less of it or you can make more of it right and you simply You simply don't have enough of it coming in. Right. And the

only path I see for you is to go find whatever work you can find, whether that's work from home on a computer, whether that's going in somewhere, that's it. I've been doing that and right now no one's hired me and everyone's doing part time. Yeah How much are you how much are you in the hole every month money wise? Surprisingly, I don't know what's going on, but I'm not actually in the hole. I don't know how it's working. Okay, how much is your rent? Or your mortgage mortgage is 200 2400 2400 a month, but did you say you're only bringing in 2000? Yes. Don't ask me how it's working

Well, I have to ask you how it's working. It's just a math problem I'm not going down in my account and I keep looking is it getting paid? Are my bills getting paid? They're all getting paid. Is your husband is your husband paying him? I Know I am they're coming out of my checking account. How much money do you have in your checking account? I have in my checking and savings about 16,000. Okay, so it's just probably taking money out of that. And that and well what's gonna happen is's going to dwindle pretty fast. Right, right. Exactly. I have like been six months to do something. Right. That's exactly right. Yep. So your mortgage is more than what you're bringing in.

And so that doesn't include any other utilities. So you're looking at to keep this house for that big of a mortgage payment. You're going to need to be bringing in close to nine grand a month which I'm not sure if that's gonna be possible so I don't know for the house if you're gonna be able to afford it long term in order to sustain yep any level of lifestyle so are you how much is left on the house how much do you owe? About $275,000. Oh, okay. How much equity's in the house? See, well I think it's worth $3,350,000.

So what is that? $150,000 if it's worth, did you say it's worth, no I'm sorry, $75,000. That sounds right. Yeah. Well you owe $675,000 on it? $275,000. Oh $275,000, oh my gosh. It's worth $75,000 on it? 275. Oh 275, oh my gosh.

It's worth 350. Okay, okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay, yeah, I mean I think, yeah long term Linda, I'm gonna say that yeah, you're gonna have to sell the house eventually here and then, I mean I would do it sooner than later honestly, I don't think it's worth the stress of what you're gonna be under here after this account goes down money wise. So I would sell it and I would find something

like a one bedroom condo something that you could own but it's going to be significant you know if you can find something that's that's less than this and maybe a different part of Dallas as well and then finding, any level of work that you can to bridge that gap. Because like what John said, I mean, that's the hard part about money is there's not really emotion around it. It is the math problem.

And so understanding, okay, here's the money coming in, the money going out. But also my hope Linda, number one, you're so courageous for making a decision to leave a dangerous situation and in a marriage at this age, I commend you for that greatly. That's scary and taking that step is really difficult

and so I'm so proud of you for that. And then, yeah, I pray that the divorce comes to an end and that he'll have some of his pension that he'll be paying you to help supplement some of this income too. Yeah, and if you do, not everybody has this. And in fact, it's getting rarer and rarer. But if you do have kids, friends, adult friends,

church friends, this is the time to say, hey, I need some help. And people always tell me, I don't like asking for help. Or it makes me feel weird. This is the time to say, I need some help. Will you sit down with me and help me map this thing out? Do you know a good realtor will connect you with, I'm gonna connect you with one of our

Ramsey financial coaches. I'm gonna pay for one of the sessions. And so you can sit down, they can walk through your budget with you. And so hang on the line here. We'll get you that for free. Yeah, Christian will pick up. Thanks, Aldo.

But here's another thing, for everyone out there who is in what I would call a, I don't know, it's a protected class really, but I can imagine walking in at 68 years old not having worked and being like, I need a job. And people are gonna look at you and go, man, no thanks, right? I wish the world wasn't that way, it is.

If you can only get a part-time job, get a part-time job and work like your life depends on it, they'll hire you, right? They will hire you. And if they don't have a full-time, I mean a full-time job available at some point, they may roll you into one that is a full-time job or call a friend or they'll be able

to be a good resource for you. But if all you can get is one or two part-time jobs, work them like that's all you got, right? And then let opportunities show up in front of you. Yep, so good. Golly, I'm sorry. All right, let's go to got, right? And then let opportunities show up in front of you. Yep, so good. Golly, I'm sorry. All right, let's go to Facebook, John. How about we don't?

We have Teresa on Facebook, a social question. She asks, what kind of side jobs did you get, should you get to start tackling debt? So this is a question we get a lot, people that are on Baby Step 2 that are trying to get out of debt. The income part of getting out is a huge, huge part of the speed of which you can get out of debt, right? I mean, like you can cut expenses, but only to a point, right?

I mean, you still have to pay for things. So this extra income is really kind of the magic part of it. But it's also difficult because it's high lift. I mean, it takes your time. I mean, you're working full time possibly, and then you're taking some kind of side hustle. So I mean, I have found the most lucrative ones we've seen and talked to people is like

when you can have a direct connection to the customer, meaning you do tutoring, piano lessons. Lawn care. Lawn care, house sitting, babysitting, dog sitting, dog walking. Like when you can go straight to the person, to the customer, you're usually going to get a higher rate of return per hour

versus going and working a retail job or something. Right. Or if you can work at all hours. So you can work a full-time job and then you can drive in hours where you otherwise couldn't just go get a regular job. Yes, that's right, yeah, totally.

And, you know, always the Ubers, the lifts, the food delivery services, a lot of those, I mean, we were talking to some people on a webinar last week, and people were making like $1,015, $1,200, I mean, a lot by even just driving at night. So again, looking at those options, but finding and actually digging into the details of it.

Cause I think if you're going to be doing it, you want the most ROI out of your time because all of that will be going towards debt and having the discipline to put that extra money towards paying off debt to get out of debt as quickly as possible versus spending it too. So having that character quality of like, yep, I'm going to be disciplined in that and stay true that this extra income is going towards debt is huge.

So all of you all and some of you listening to this, listen to it during your side hustle. So we always just want to applaud you and remind you that that is possible. This debt free journey really is. It takes a lot of hard work, but it is possible. This is the Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession.

Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest

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to check out the Christmas sale. Or again, for the giveaway to win some money, you can go to ramsysolutions.com slash giveaway. Up next we have Sarah in Virginia Beach. Hey Sarah, welcome to the show. Hey. Hello hello, how can we help? Okay so we got a we got a pre-approval loan for a used car and the pre-approval had a seven and a half percent interest rate. And then when we went to, when we saw the loans show up like in our account, they have the interest rate at nine and a half percent and when my husband went to the bank and asked them about the change, they said that they could do whatever they wanted.

Do you know what show you're calling? The pre-approval is allowed to change, but we were like, but we didn't agree to pay this, but we already have the car because we took like, it was like our bank, so we took the check from our bank. Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, do you know what show you, I think you may have called the wrong show, do you know what show this is? The Ramsey Show? Yeah.

We don't like car loans. Yeah, we don't do car loans. We'll have you probably sell the car. Yeah, sell the car. And don't do business with crooks. Don't do business with banks. Don't go into debt. Yeah. Well, wait, okay, so what's the situation, Sarah? So besides the interest rate, let's, because, yeah, we are not... Pre-approval is different from an actual rate. Okay. Those are just different things. Yeah so I'm pregnant with our fifth kid, we're 28, and we're living on like six thousand dollars a month but we fortunately live in military housing so

that makes things a little bit easier. Yes. But we were getting a car loan because my husband's been like keeping my van going for a while now. And he finally feels like he's kind of like at the end of what he can do with it. So we were worried like it's going to be, it's going to break down and we're like not going to be able to fix it. And we're not going to have a vehicle that can fit our family in it. Um, and so we don't have any other debt. So we were like, well, if we got a car payment, that's around $200, then that's not so bad

because that's like the only other payment that we have besides like car insurance. So how can we help you? It sounds like you've got it. It sounds like you've got it figured out. I was confused about the pre-approval. Oh, the rate. So I was hoping you could explain it to us so that we don't make that mistake again because we thought like because we were pre-approved at seven and a half that like we would just. It's not a necessary locked-in rate

at that point. Pre-approval just means that I my understanding is pre-approval just says here's the floor. Y'all your credit worthiness would qualify for X. Give me, Sarah, give me kind of a little bit more of y'all's financial situation. Cause I would love to maybe help navigate and talk through just this whole picture because I think you're a mom with, you're pregnant with number five, which God bless you, Sarah, well done.

I have three and I feel like I have 13 kids. So that's amazing. And I know that the stress that, you know, just growing a family takes, and a car is one of the largest purchases that you make as a family. So I understand it's a big deal, and for you guys to have transportation,

I totally get that. So your husband, what branch is he in the military? He's in the Navy. The Navy, okay. Well, thanks for his service and for you as a military wife. You guys do a lot for this country, so we really, really honor and appreciate that. So you guys are in military housing, so there's no housing expense for you guys per month? Or are you paying a little bit of something? I mean, technically there's like, we get a housing allowance and when

you live in military housing, they just, the housing gets the full housing allowance. Perfect. Yep. So nothing's coming out of his paycheck. Yeah. We just wouldn't be able to stay under our housing allowance. Totally. Okay. And you guys make, what'd you say, six grand a month? So that's like with our housing allowance. Our housing allowance is $2,400. So it's closer to $4,000 without our housing allowance. Okay. Okay. And any money saved? We have a little bit. Yeah. It's like we have like five grand. Five grand. Okay. And no other debt? We have no other debt. Yeah, that's great we have like five grand. Five grand, okay. And no other debt? We have no other debt. Yeah, that's great.

That's great. And are you working at all? I am not because for me to work, we would lose money. Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah. Because we have too many kids to pay. Yeah, for sure.

Somebody else takes care of them. Yep, how much was the van you guys bought? The loan on the van is $16,000. $16,000. Okay. And how much are you going to sell the old van for? We're hoping to sell it for at least $4,000. Okay. And so what I would encourage you guys to do just as an exercise, you're probably not going to like it,

but to save some of that money and continue to not owe anyone anything, I would do a lot of research on a van that's 10,000, right? It's going to be older. It may not be as great as the 16 because have you guys, have you guys officially purchased the 16 or did you guys get the interest rate and now you're like, oh gosh, have you signed off on everything? Well, we haven't signed like the promise note, but if we take, and so my husband said that we could probably take the van back to the dealership and they would just make us probably pay

like a restock fee or something. Yeah. I mean, Sarah, I'll be real honest. That's what I would do. I wouldn't mess with it. And I know the justification of it's only $200 a month. And at that point, it's not as much about the money, even though that's coming out of your $4,000.

There's just- There's a nine and a half interest rate, the payment is actually 270. We were thinking that we were gonna be at like 200 a month because we expected a seven and a half interest rate. Yep. Well, the idea of going through all of this, you're going to be on baby number five. I mean, there's just so much stress. And there's something about having the peace of mind that if something were

to ever happen, that you don't owe anyone anything. And getting a car from the dealership is the more expensive route versus an individual. So I do wonder if you could if you could talk someone in that selling a $11,000, $10,000 van to say, hey, we've got some cash and we can and we can, you know, we can buy it outright or drive the $4,000 as for five, six more months if you can and just figure it out that way. But that honestly that's as you call in Sarah, that's the advice I want to give you is it's a different thinking paradigm I understand how you you know fell into this but there's something about taking on the identity of like yeah

we're just somebody that we don't borrow money and when you draw a hard line in the sand then other options come into play they have to because if this band breaks down you have to figure out okay what are we gonna do but if you're not borrowing money and there's a hard line, you have to get creative with it. And yeah, and I think for you, working would be very difficult. I understand that.

I do know some people that are doing night stuff. They're doing admin type online, virtual assistant kind of things. But I mean, at this point, if I were you guys, I would scrape together what we had and said, this is our budget, and this is what we have to to spend on a car and this is what we're gonna spend Yes, we're just gonna have to figure it out. And again for that pre-approval thing. It's they just give you a floating number It's it's an approximation

This is about what it's gonna be and then depending on what the rates are on any given day and they fluctuate and go Yesterday, I mean, it's just like it's all over over the place. And so, yeah. And here's the bigger picture. The reason we tell people don't borrow money, A, is because again, it always feels like something like this comes up. But if 70 bucks is going to is going to be a hardship, it's going to be this big. Well, we thought it was going to be seven point nine. I was nine point nine. Just don't play the game.

Just don't play the game. You got five kids, you have seven people in on-base housing. It's all for peace. I'd rather have a crummy van than know no matter what's happening in our life. How many stitches, broken bones, whatever. Gotta pay that bank. Gotta pay that bank. Gotta pay that bank. I just don't wanna play. I don't wanna play. This is the Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going gonna pay my bills in the middle of all that grief, like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops

among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. The Ramsey Question of the Day is brought to you by

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All right. Today's question comes from Lindsey in Ohio. My husband and I have been married for seven years and he refuses to combine finances. I make significantly less than he does and whenever we argue, he says I'm only with him for his money and he accuses me of wanting to drain his accounts. Geez.

I don't have any login info for any of our bills or his bank account. Oh God, his mom is on his checking account so if he died tomorrow, she could drain his funds completely while I waited for death certificates to access the funds and support our son who is three. He, yeah, this next line doesn't surprise me at all. He recently told me he is not happy

and has not been happy for a long time. I'm doing everything I can to keep my family together because I love him. I even turned down job offers recently that paid significantly more just to preserve my mental health and to not cause him more stress. If I'm being honest, I don't earn enough to afford an apartment on my own, let alone eat and pay utilities. I'm scared and heartbroken and looking for some direction. That's hard. I'm scared and heartbroken and looking for some direction.

That's hard. I would stop everything that you're doing and I would call a therapist, marriage therapist today, right now, and ask him if he will go with you. He probably will not. And ask him the question, this following question at the dinner table. Are you through with our marriage? I think more people avoid that question

and go for months or years with all these peripheral behaviors. Hey mom, I'm putting my mom on a check-in account. You can't have, we have all these proxy wars. Sit down and say, are you done with this marriage? And you might tell them, I'm not gonna file on you. You're gonna have to leave, whatever you want to, but ask that question and have a therapist

already, appointment already booked. That's where y'all, that's where they're at here. This is a man who's leaving this marriage and either A doesn't have the courage to do it or hasn't sat with his attorney yet, but he is out of this relationship. And instead of doing a non-integrist thing with integrity,

which I know sounds silly, he is just gonna let his wife suffocate. Yep, yep. And then blame her for the implosion. Oh gosh, yeah. Man, Lindsay. Well, I do feel like, I mean, this feels like an extreme situation.

You guys don't even have, you don't have access to money at that point of how to pay bills. I mean, you guys are living completely separate lives and the money issue and how you guys are so separate with money is the symptom of really what's going on in your marriage, which you know that. And so getting to the root cause of that,

but I do wanna encourage you that even in this, it doesn't sound like it's going well. Like, I mean, you never wanna predict a divorce on somebody, but unless he's willing to do the work and you are too, it's not gonna, nothing's gonna change. But you've been offered money, you're offered jobs that you're getting paid significantly more, but you're turning them down

to preserve your mental health. If I were you, I mean, you guys are living separate lives at this point and- Yeah, you gotta start making plans. I mean, I would start seeing, yeah, what's out there for me from a career standpoint to build your confidence back. Cause if you're in a relationship, man or woman, right?

And that your partner is not reciprocating any level of unity and that's what you're craving. You love him. I'm like, that's rejection on a daily basis. And that erodes, I would have to say your self-confidence. And so to kind of get yourself in a spot from like a mental health standpoint right that's that's somewhat stable is gonna be really important in this for you to

possibly make some hard decisions and Lindsay probably for a long time years you've been trying to do things to not make him mad and not make him sad and not make him upset to make sure The house is quiet to quote unquote not cause him stress stop The source of his stress is coming from the inside out has nothing to do with you And so you're not turning down job opportunities that would keep you safe Keep your keep food on you and your son's table Pay for an apartment if and when this guy finally leaves you, which he's telling you he's doing, you have to start making those type of plans and stop

living every moment to try to not stress him out. It's never been about you, it's always been about him. I hate that for you. We were just on a break and meeting all the fabulous people in the lobby watching the show, but we met with a couple that was here for our Money in Marriage event. And that's a theme, John, throughout that weekend and through marriage. Once I've been married 15 years, and I would say even in the last probably four-ish years

to five years, did all of that click. Like what you just said, because I think for so long, we live in such a way that we really do believe if I do something, it's going to affect you on a level so I can either choose behaviors or, you know, it's up to me to make sure you're okay, right? It's that way of living. I can annoy my wife.

I can be frustrating. Sure, yes, yes. I can make her mad, but like, I can't wake up every day and make her be okay. Yes. Make her be whole. I don't have that kind of power. No, no.

And when you put the layer of money on top of it, for those of you listening and watching, we get the question on time, how do I get my husband to see X, Y, and Z? How do I get my wife to see, you know, or I don't have a spouse that's working with me financially, you know, how do I get them to change? And it's the way the questions are worded

in our belief that we can change someone in it. We just haven't said it the right way. That's right, yeah. Or if we just had that one conversation and I could just, yeah, make this argument really good, then they're gonna get it. But there's something deep in the core of who we are. And again, this shows a lot about money and relationships,

but it comes out in the financial aspect, meaning that when you guys are not on the same page financially, you can only bring to the table what you are feeling, what you believe, and hope that your spouse reciprocates, that you're in a marriage, that they're actually listening and responding. But to the point that that is not happening, then there is the marriage issues that are really going on and it's coming out as money issues and it's marriage issues. And I say this all the time, behavior is a language

and this guy's showing you through his actions, he trusts his mom and he doesn't trust you. Right or wrong, maybe you've earned that lack of trust or maybe he just never, like, he trusts his mom and he doesn't trust you. That's a marriage fracture of the highest order, you'll need to address that, right? When he tells you, I'm not happy,

I haven't been for a long time, that's usually coded testing the water language for, are you gonna blow up, maybe you leave, are you not, do you wanna like make this mutual kind of, that's just, I'm testing it out, right? This idea that we're not gonna be together. And you have to start thinking about your four walls, you have a three year old, right?

You gotta start thinking about different things. And I hate that three year old, right? You got to start thinking about different things. And I hate that for you. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. Yet it's where we are. It's what it is. Oh, well, thanks so much, Lindsay, for the question. I hope that helps. All right, let's go to John in Salt Lake City. Hey, John, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you. Absolutely. How can we help? So I am in a Currently in a straight commission sales position

Been in it for somewhere 15 years or so Making about 200,000 a year currently and But the the pay structure of our company is changing from straight commission to a base plus bonus model. The question is, or my concern is, I'm in a very established market currently, so I'm concerned about being able to hit those growth bonuses because there's not a whole lot of growth in my current area left in my opinion. So the option that they have proposed to me is, well, you could pick up additional territory in some additional states where we don't currently have market share, or you could simply go

relocate to a new area with, you know, skies of limited territory. So how much of your question, dude, is about the integrity of the people you work for? None. I'm not concerned about that I very much like the company respect my bosses enjoy what I'm doing the actual literal question is financially does it make sense to relocate or what I have to keep or or do I keep which is the option you know on a weekly basis and be away from the family which is not something that I have to or do I can which is the option you know on a weekly basis and Be away from the family which is not something that I want to do

Yeah I think you're I think your professional life is more than your paycheck And so if you need 200 grand or you need that more money to survive based on the life Y'all have created and that's what you and your wife decide great Go knock your lights out and commute or y'all can end up thinking about moving. Yeah. If you like your life as it is in your community and your friends and your family, what y'all all do and you can afford the pay cut and that's the life y'all want to choose, choose that. This is The Ramsey Show. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed?

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good. Simply search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play. If you're listening on a podcast, just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my friend and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show. John Deloney, that's like a double John Deloney,

John Deloney, and author of the John Deloney books. So much of your name. It seems hard for my children when they were young to even say their dad's name. But give us a call at 888-825-5225 and we're going to be answering your calls on life and money. First up we have Jim in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey Jim, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. Absolutely, how can we help? So my wife and I are, we're consistently up, well now we're up through baby step four, but we haven't bought our first home yet. So that's kind of the next thing, big ticket thing that we're looking to do.

And I just, I feel like our expenses are so high. I just don't know how I'm never going to be able to save enough in Atlanta to be able to purchase a home. Yeah. So what do you guys make in a year? We make about between two it's about a hundred grand. Okay. Tell me about your expenses, man. So we pay $2,000 a month for rent. I can add another it depends because it's like usage-based

but four or five hundred dollars for utilities after that. We do our best with groceries it's just crazy right now probably around eight hundred dollars a month on food. Do you have little ones? No, just my wife and I and our dog. How old are you? I'm 26. 26. So Jim, I'm going to tell you this just because I love you, okay? This is straight as I can because I just don't, I think the band of 22 year olds to 35 year olds

just wasn't told the truth. And that is y'all are doing everything right, y'all are working really hard. And you can, y'all can find some other jobs, we can talk about all that kind of stuff. But increasingly across the country, people are running into, I wanna live in this city, and there are just not enough houses in this city, so the ones that are available are outrageously expensive.

They're very expensive. And so there's a reckoning which is, do we wanna be homeowners more than we wanna live in the zip code? And that's not, it's a question that none of us, I'm in my 40s, it was never a question I was prepped for. But I think the idea of, we have this picture, we got married, we wanna live in Atlanta,

we wanna be Braves fans, God help you like this is where our family like this is where we want to build our life and This ugly person that doesn't care about your wants or desires or dreams called math Just said it's not gonna work. And so you have to decide we want to live in the city and rent Or do we want to keep working really hard and begin thinking we might let's move to Kansas let's move to North Dakota I'm making up places but I think there's a reality 45 minutes outside yeah we're gonna have to commute we have to do some different things and I think I think more and more people are banging their head up against mathematical realities and it's making them insane and I get it and it's good to be frustrated but I think a wiser use of your energy is to begin to go okay then what must be true we want to own a

house that's ours awesome I love it all right let's get out a map and figure out where across the United States of America we can live and actually afford a house here it might be Lubbock Texas it might be you know Highland Park who knows who knows but that's hard to hear but man what do y'all do for a living? So I work from home. Okay, I work for a university as an academic advisor. Okay My wife is a shark trainer a shark training Limited opportunities for her to be able to be a shark trainer like the shark like notion and she trains them Yes, I got the aquarium the Atlanta Aquarium? Yes, correct. Your wife is the coolest wife who has ever lived.

I know, I know. Man, I wanted to be a marine biologist so bad and like do this kind of work. Man, you took a left turn. Wow. She's a shark trainer, dude. Okay, so. That's unbelievable. So you're gonna be living in, you're gonna be living by the coast right or by an aquarium Okay, so how much does she make a year She makes about 48, okay Okay, and so you you're gonna have to ask yourself the question. I've worked with academic advisors my whole life Y'all don't make a bunch of money and you'll do a ton of work too. I mean, she works with sharks.

My wife's on the line. You're gonna have to ask yourself because my guess is she is locked into this thing. That's probably not a job that comes open very often. You move wherever you can get that job. That's her world, right? Yeah. Okay, then you have to ask yourself,

is being an academic advisor, is that my future? Or am I using this as a springboard because the university is gonna pay for my graduate school so I can go do this thing and do another thing and do another thing. And how quickly can you get on that wagon? Otherwise you're all gonna be spinning your wheels, man. Well, I already had my master's.

Okay. Yeah, but what do you make, 52,000? I'm huge. I'm sorry? You make 52,000? Yeah. sorry. You make 52,000? Yeah. Okay, you can make that as a public school teacher in Atlanta too and have summers where you can make more money. That's what I'm saying. Like it's about you saying, okay, I had this dream of being a university official. It's not gonna, even if I became the head of all academic advising, I'm gonna make 80 grand.

And that's not gonna buy you a house in a cool neighborhood in Atlanta. And so it's you reckoning with, okay what must be true for my career? Yeah and I would say for hers too. I'm like yeah I mean obviously she's gone to school to be you know or she's gotten levels of... Rachel she's a shark trainer. This thing is not changing, right? But that's the grown-up question though. That reckoning is real for people, couples all across the country. A guy we talked to last hour, it's like,

do I take this kind of pay cut to do the job I want or do I go and transfer and we move somewhere to make more money to have a different kind of lifestyle? I mean, it's a lifestyle question you guys are asking. Or I wanna be a writer so bad and now chat, GBT is here. And so my market value just went in half. And like, so do I wanna keep doing this thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I'm not saying like just go chase money and your life is gonna be okay. It's more fulfilling than that, but you guys will just have to make some hard decisions because the math has to line up. And you're right to own a home in Atlanta, Georgia making 100K, it's gonna be really hard. And again, maybe you guys start off

with a not a single family home, maybe it's a townhouse, maybe it's a condo, not in the nicest building, right? I mean, like there's these other elements of this that you need to look into, but I think that is your next step, Jim. I think home ownership from a financial standpoint is the wisest thing that you guys can do. You guys are out of debt, you have an emergency fund,

and for first time home buyers, we recommend about 5% to put down and making sure that your payment is no more than 25% of your take home pay. And so that may take you guys another two years to save and get a good down payment to get your monthly payment in a place that you want. I mean, but I think overall,

and the beauty is you guys, you don't have kids right now. The world is you guys, and you guys are dual income, no kids, the dinks. And you get to make decisions about your life of, hey, what do we want to do? And that can change over time. But I think that, I mean, the math has to work. And that's the hard part of all of this. And it is frustrating.

I mean, things do cost more. And you know, and even look at your lifestyle too, Jim. I mean, I would be curious from that perspective. I know groceries are expensive, but 800 bucks for just you guys. Family of five lives off of that, you know, some months. So I think it's, I think maybe this is the magic question, Rachel, is what's it worth, what's it worth to you? Yep. And you asked that question about your two jobs. What's it worth to us? And it's about how we go out to eat, the town,

it is the concerts and the baseball games we go to or don't go to. It's the, what is all this stuff worth, or being by family, being not, what is all this worth to us, and let that dictate some of your questions. And I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer for anybody on those,

but math doesn't care how you feel. It just doesn't. Thanks, Jim. I hope that helps. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This month is all about gratitude, and most of us have people in our lives that we're grateful for. One of those people for me is the wonderful Marilyn Fannin.

She gave me a chance, she taught me poise and professionalism, and she challenged me. But there's one person that we often don't take time to thank. Ourselves. We don't always acknowledge that we're barely surviving or that we're moving forward or that we're working towards a better life and better relationships. And in a world where everything seems to have gone bonkers, it's not always easy to be grateful. So here's my reminder to thank the people in your life, including you. And sometimes to do that we need some professional help. We need to talk to someone trained to help us discover true

gratitude for ourselves and others, especially in the holiday season. That's why I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy and you can talk with your therapist at just about anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with the licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost.

This season, let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney to get 10% off your first month. extra cost. This season let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. Folks the Ramsey Christmas cash giveaway is here and you could win big. We're giving away $500 prizes each week and one grand prize of $5,000. Enter daily for your chance to win at ramsesolutions.com slash giveaway. It's that easy. Plus our 50 days of Christmas deals is on right now. Get up to 30% off bestsellers and life-changing gifts that won't break the holiday budget. ramsysolutions.com slash store.

Well, a brand new tour just launched with Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney, and they're going to be hitting the road with the money and relationships tour. Be so fun. This is gonna be so fun. So we do live events around Ramsey a lot. So we travel and we'll do some here at our event center. But this event specifically, it's a different one, because the audience in each city gets to choose the topics, right?

Yes, and you know better than any of us, Dave and I will be on the stage together most of the night and it will be the Wild West. And so whenever you're on stage with Dave, if you've never been on stage with Dave Ramsey, you have to know what you're talking about and you just have to be ready. And you never know what's gonna happen.

Never know what's gonna happen. And with you too, John, when we hosted Money Managements, I was like with John, you hosted with John, there was like 40% of, you just never know what's gonna happen. You always have to leave room and Dave's the same way. So it's gonna be a very entertaining, very fun event. So if you're in Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix,

Fort Worth or Kansas City, they are coming to you or any surrounding areas. So to get the dates and the tickets, go to ramsysolutions.com slash tour and make sure to check it out. You guys again, the Money and Relationships Tour with Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney, they're hitting the road.

And let me tell you, when we were sitting around Dave's table talking about like what we were gonna talk about, we got to laughing so hard. And I thought if we're laughing this hard in here, it's gonna be wheels off. It'll be wheels off. If you think you know what a Reims event is, show up.

It'll be a blast. It's so fun. So, so fun. All right, next up we have Matthew in West Palm Beach. Hey Matthew, welcome to the show. Thank you, I appreciate it. How are you guys doing? We're doing well, how can we help?

Fantastic, so I had a quick question. So my wife and I are expecting our first child in December. Congratulations, soon. I appreciate that. Christmas kids. She's real pregnant, huh? Christmas baby, yeah, she is very pregnant. You getting any baby John?

We are not. Boo. It's a girl, It's a girl. Rachel. It feels right. You know, like like in the 80s, Rachel, Nicole, you know, Rachel or Nicole. I love that. But yeah, so we are trying to figure out what our work life is going to look like.

Just a little bit of context. I own two small businesses. I work from home. Very flexible life. My wife works a normal nine to five job that she's not thrilled with. So I think it's a really good time for her to kind of take a break,

take a little reset and kind of see how everything goes. And then, you know, jump back into work if she feels like she wants to. And so she doesn't feel the same way. We're kind of going back and forth about it. She goes, she goes, call the Ramsey show. I dare you, get on the Ramsey was called it. Call the Ramsey show. I dare you get on the Ramsey show. So I'm like, you know what? I will get on the Ramsey show. Okay, Matthew, does she want to work? Yes. Does she want to work? Yeah. Yeah. So

she, she wants to work. She didn't work in since she was 14, but she doesn't love what she does. So I just think it's just a good, a good time in our life. I think we're really set up where she's able to take a small break if she, you know, and then jump back in if she wants to go back to work. I think- All right, hold on. There's something beneath that though. Yeah.

For both of you. You either need to have the courage to say, I always had this picture that the woman I married would be a stay at home mom. Or, I've been married to you for this many years, three years, five years, seven years and you hate your job and that I want to see you smile again. That's underneath the, hey you know what I think it's a good time for you to take a break. That's like when someone's like, oh you're gonna have another cheeseburger

huh? Right? You're going back to work, huh? It's a proxy war for the truth. And she might be saying, you know, I've been working since I was 14. That might be her saying, I'm nervous about your two small businesses. And, or my dad told me I didn't have any worth unless I made money.

I was gonna say, or I've been working since I was 14 and all I know is to produce. And not to produce anymore, I don't know who I to produce. That's it. And not to produce anymore, I don't know who I would be. That's right. And so it's getting beneath that saying, here's a map financially where we're gonna be okay.

I want you to know that I love you more than life itself and you can't earn that anymore. Right? And maybe that's the conversation to have. Or if you wanna keep working, I want you to work in a job that brings you joy and makes you feel like you have purpose and not something you hate every day. Because I'm scared to have that kind of poison in the house with a newborn. Thousand percent. I mean, you hit the

nail on the head and it definitely stems from, you know, her mom was a breadwinner of her family. And so she's used to that. You know, the woman working in the home where I came from a household, my mom was a stay at home mom. And that's kind of what I'm used to. So, but yeah, I mean, if she wants to go back to work, obviously I would not make her not work, obviously. She could do whatever she wants. And we can obviously use any income we can get,

but I just feel like- You want her to be the healthiest version of her. And that's- Correct. Not going to a job she hates and or fighting her own demons of, gosh, do I have value if I'm not producing? Or I'm fearful that you're not gonna make enough money. I mean, whatever that motivation is for her to work

is important to get to because, or it's simply D, she just enjoys it. Yeah, going to a job you hate, we don't want that long-term for anybody out there. But maybe it's like, yeah, she just enjoys it. Yeah, going to a job you hate, we don't want that long term for anybody out there. But maybe it's like, yeah, I still, cause I know some women, I mean, and they can't stand being at home. They're just like, oh my gosh,

like I function so much better. I'm a better mom if, you know, being working or whatever it may be, right? And then also know, Matthew, you guys are first time parents, leave your hand open to a lot that can happen. Cause the moment that baby is born, it changes your world unlike anything

you can ever explain to someone. So her viewpoint may change, your viewpoint may change. I mean, you just, you never know until that baby's here because I don't know. It's just a lot that can- I always tell new parents, take every major decision three months at a time. Okay.

Give yourself 90 days to be like, I'm going full stay at home. And then y'all recalibrate, put it on the calendar. Does she have a good maternity leave and everything with her and insurance? Like how, from a corporate standpoint, is she? Yeah, she does get three months off. She gets three months off, okay.

So we do have that three month window. Okay. And yeah, so I mean, like you said, the 90 days, that makes a lot of sense. So maybe she could stay home to leave. Yeah. See how it goes, you know, but just talking to peers and friends are all just like, I wish I had so much more time with our, you know, with my baby. And I feel like we're in a position to take advantage of that.

And I know how important time is. I know, but you keep using we, don't put your story onto hers. Y'all need to have the conversation about, because both of y'all have been saying, we're gonna have a baby. And she had a picture of what that meant. And it's informed largely by her childhood. You had a picture of what that meant,

and that was largely informed by your childhood. Y'all need to now do the hard work, which can also be really fun if you approach it with curiosity, which is, oh, here was my picture of having a baby, and here was my picture of having a baby, now let's create one that's gonna include both of our pictures so that we're both on the same page.

Otherwise, she goes back to work, and you have this building resentment in your guts that your wife abandoned your kid. Or she just feels forced to stay home and she starts to resent you because she feels miserable in her house, she feels trapped and lonely in her house, and she really liked the idea of working. It brought her a fuller picture of herself and you stole that from her. So let's make sure we avoid that and just call out at the beginning, no judging the

pictures. No judging the pictures. Let's just be curious about them. Oh man, you thought I was just going to be a stay at home beginning. No judging the pictures. No judging the pictures. Let's just be curious about them. Oh man, you thought I was just gonna be a stay at home mom. How long have you known me? 10 years? Yeah, I just, I loved how my mom was able to do this, this and this.

Oh, I love seeing a picture of my mom working really hard and coming home with projects. And so explore that together and then come up with a 90 day plan or a 180 day plan, a six-month plan, and then promise each other, put on the calendar, and we'll reassess it. And I'll tell you, I have had some of the most gangster

coworkers ever who were women who had babies and they were gonna be back in the office the day after the birth, and they never came back. And they're awesome, and they're like, And they never came back. And they're awesome. And they're like, did I help my baby? And they were like, I ain't going back to your stupid, whatever you dumb boys are doing at the dumb boardroom table.

And then I've met the exact opposite. I'm gonna be a stay at home, I'm gonna be a stay at home. And they have that baby and six months in, they're like, get me out of here. Yeah, so just keep your hands open and make sure you'll have the conversation on a regular basis together because it's gonna evolve and shift and change Okay, so just keep it fluid, you know, obviously keep communication up see how the lead goes But don't use proxy wars proxy

And I'll just say as a woman who works and I came back two weeks early from attorney leave my first cuz I was that I was like, oh my god, and I love my job I'm like I miss it. I miss being with. And you know, so I actually that versus my third, I actually pulled way back. You're still not back. I'm totally kidding with you. I'm just being ridiculous. I am working.

No, but, but so, you know, it, I think for women, it can feel like I can't take an off ramp, especially in the corporate world. And when I hear this from friends, like, if I get off the exit, I can't get back on. That's how it feels, but you can't. Don't limit yourself. Don't have those blinders because when you don't have other options, you make bad decisions out of fear and out of what could be. Take that off the table too. The sky's the limit. So always remember that. And that's

more for her, Matthew, not for you. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, this is Rachel Cruz for Helix Sleep. And I gotta say, Winston and I love our Helix mattress. Winston likes a firmer mattress than I do, but differences like that are why Helix has lots of mattress models to choose from. So whether you sleep on your side, your stomach, or your back, Helix has you covered. And one of the best parts for us was taking the personalized Helix Sleep Quiz.

They matched us with the perfect mattress and it only took two minutes. We also got the Glaciotex Cooling Cover, which pulls heat away from our bodies while we sleep for the coolest, most comfortable sleep we have ever had. Not to mention, our mattress and topper were all easy to set up and the quality is incredible. Plus, Helix offers a 100-night trial and all mattresses come with either a 10 or 15 year warranty. But here's the best part. The Helix Black Friday Sale is happening now. Get 25% off all mattresses and get a free bedding bundle on select products. Go to helixsleep.com.com

slash ramsey. That's helixsleep.com slash ramsey. With Helix, better sleep starts now. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here and I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the money and relationships tour with Dr. John Deloney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City in April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more information at ramsysolutions.com slash tour. We broadcast this show live every day from one to four, right outside of Nashville, Tennessee, and it's played on podcasts and YouTube,

and it's always fun, because the way we built the studio when we moved into the new building is, it's right in the lobby, the studio is with a big glass wall, and people come from all over, and we meet people during the breaks from all over the country. We had people from Oregon and California

and Florida and in the lobby as well there is a debt-free stage and we have Ryan and Jonna standing on that today. Welcome you guys. Thank you. Well congratulations you're on that stage for one reason and one reason only because you are debt free. Thank you. Congratulations. So how much debt did you guys pay off? $198,000.

Wow. How much money were you making during that time? We started at 94,000 and ended about 207. Okay. And then how long did that take you? It took us a little over seven years. Okay. And what was the almost 200K of debt?

What was that? It was our house. Yeah! It was the house, completely. Look at it, it was beautiful. Completely debt-free. It's a rad house, man. I was gonna say, it's a very California looking house

and you guys are from Sacramento? We're a little north of Sacramento, two hours north, Cottonwood. Having a paid off California home feels impossible, is what it seems like. Incredible, you guys. What's it worth, about $7 million? We wish, no.

Probably about $450. Wow, amazing. Great job, you guys. So how'd you double your income? God blessed us in a lot of different ways and I made a small career change about 10 years ago and I've just kind of slowly, he's opened all these doors for me

and he's just kind of plugged along the same way. Yeah, what do you guys do? I'm a director for County Office of Education. Okay. I work in the field petroleum industry. Okay, amazing you guys. Okay, so what happened seven years ago to start this journey of paying off your house?

Which is wild. It is wild. She came home one day and she's like, hey, we're gonna start this Dave Ramsey thing. And I'm like, okay, I've heard of him in the AM radio. I know. And I was like, okay, let's do it. You know, we always kind of knew that that was dumb.

And and we just started and we won two and three was pretty quick. And I based us one, two and three. And then we just kept rocking and rolling. Yeah. You always talk about gazelle intensity. And for us, it was like we had a little savings so we just kind of paid a chunk off. We had a little credit card, we paid that off and then built up our savings

and we're more of the tortoise. Yeah. With the low, slow, you know, get it done. Yes. I love spreadsheets so. Yeah, slug it away so I'm the nerd. Well especially with the house and the interest rate and stuff when you start to see, oh my gosh,

if we can cut this down, how much you're saving even in just interest, it's motivating. Exactly, but we kind of saved alongside of that. We had a goal of paying it off and then starting a remodel. Okay. Those plans changed when we paid off our mortgage on a Friday and the following like two days later his car blew up and then three days later my car blew up. Oh my gosh. So thankfully mine was covered

under a recall so that was all fine but we ended up having to write a check for a new car which thankfully we had. Yeah. A used new car. A used, yeah, new to us. New to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Incredible you guys. But I don't know, it just feels like God has laid this path for us,

and because of the principles we've learned, it's just, we've had very little stress. Things come up and we just go, oh, okay, and move along. Yeah, so during that time, when we talk about baby step two, paying off consumer debt, that gazelle intensity, and it's. Yeah, so during that time when we talk about Baby Step 2, paying off consumer debt, that gazelle intensity, and it's just like scorched earth, you're going all in.

But when you get to where you guys were, Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6, we say it's more intentional, right? There's gonna be, it's a longer game, right, seven years, which is faster than the average Baby Steps millionaire that pays it off in nine. So you guys, you had some intensity. So what would you say percentage wise was like, we're gonna throw as much as we can at the house

and we're sacrificing some stuff over here versus like we still had a life and we still enjoyed things and did stuff with our family, but then had extra that we put towards the house. What was kind of the balance for you guys? I don't know. I feel like we did. I mean, we definitely lived, not bare bones,

but we were pretty frugal going through the whole thing. But anytime we would get a raise, we would just take it and kind of, I joke with my coworkers that I finally get a paycheck. Because it's like, it's felt, you know, like we've been working towards this goal for so long and so now it feels a little surreal,

we don't know what to do with ourselves. Yeah, do with ourselves. How long ago did you pay it off? We paid it off, we were planning November 1st and we were sitting at football practice one day and we looked at each other and went we're tired of this and so we just said we're gonna pay it off tomorrow. So we paid it off in September instead. So you've had you, if not two months of both of your checks depositing and they're just sitting there. Yeah, it feels really weird. That's so wild, man. The nerd in me, I have spreadsheets

built for the next year and a half. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't. It just feels crazy. It feels really crazy. So what's it like for you? I'm assuming you're not the spreadsheeter. No, not really. I mean, I can use a spreadsheet. So what's it like for you? I'm assuming you're not the the spread shooter She just tells me what I can

I'm definitely the spender. It's funny because I'm the nerd, but I'm also the spender. Yes saver. He's just like, you know lives He's good. Yeah. Yeah, good. Just Yeah, okay. Do you like your kids felt the effects of it? Meaning like the lifestyle and everything? Like, are they like, oh, mom and dad are rolling in it now. We get to like. I don't know. I feel like we had a pretty good balance.

Yeah, that's so great, you guys. What was your biggest fight you had in seven years? Over money or just a general fight? I would say it wasn't money. I mean, if you wanna talk about the big fights, I'm here for it, make good radio. Yeah, what's your biggest money disagreement? Spending, purchasing things?

I don't know that we've had, we don't really, we don't really fight over money. We're very on the same page on that. We do parent a lot differently. That's for your show. Oh, that's awesome. You guys. Congratulations. So how does it feel? It feels crazy. It was incredible. It was like a weight just getting lifted off their shoulders. You know, the grass

is greener. Everything is a lot nicer when it's all paid off. You're not making that payment every month. It's wild, wild. Oh, well, you guys are weird. And we always celebrate the weirdness because I mean, it's all paid off and you're not making that payment every month. It's wild, wild. Oh, well you guys are weird and we always celebrate the weirdness because I mean seriously, haven't paid off house and then you add California to that. That's the extra layer to this in my head of like, oh yeah, people feel like that just cannot be done

and you guys did it. Absolutely incredible, absolutely incredible. Okay, so bring the kids up. So we have, is it Shelby and Logan? Yes. Yes, and how old are they? Logan is 10 and Shelby is 20. So Logan, you've never known your parents not to be crazy, right?

Now you're gonna have two boring rich parents, fine. He wants jet skis. Yeah. Oh yeah. Now is the toy phase of our life, because we have cut, we don't have any big toys or anything like that. Hey Logan, just between me and you and a couple million other people, life because we have cut, we don't have any big toys or anything like that. So that will be.

Hey Logan, just between me and you and a couple million other people, they don't have any more excuses now. They gotta get you some fun stuff, Logan, okay? Your mom's a spender, I see it. Yeah, she'll take you out. Oh, let's start, you guys, so proud of you. I mean, incredible family and to do something

that is above and beyond what people do and the sacrifice is so real and you get the reward on it. You live like no one else. The later you get to live and give like no one else. We are so excited. Baby step seven. Can't believe it. All right, so we have Jonna and Ryan, Shelby and Logan from Sacramento, California. They paid off $198,000 in seven years making $94,000 to $207,000 and that includes their house. So count it down. Let's hear a big debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt free! Amazing. Three! Yes.

Amazing. Woo! Incredible. That is so impressive. Always impressive. Dude, seven years of doing a thing. Most people in America can't do something for seven minutes without being like, I'm bored.

Let's do something else. That's right, yeah, yeah, change it up. Let's scroll something. Just to get a plan and do it for seven Let's do something else. That's right, yeah, yeah, change it up. Let's scroll something. Just to get a plan and do it for seven years. Just plugging away, plugging away. Not even a house payment. Can you imagine America watching the election results come in either way and not worry that someone's gonna do

something to take your house because they can't because it's yours. It's amazing, dude. Congratulations, guys. Congratulations. This is the Ramsey Show. These days, the internet is chock full of so-called investing advice

from random goobs with zero qualifications. Listen, folks, you deserve guidance from someone who knows what the flip they're talking about. That's why I recommend the SmartVestor program. SmartVestors can help you find a professional financial advisor who can teach you to make your own best decisions with your own money. Get connected at ramsysolutions.com slash SmartVestor. Again, ramsysolutions.com slash SmartVestor.

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor. Hey, welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Delaney joined by Rachel Cruz. So here's a trend out. And if you've listened to my show, Rachel, over the last couple of years, I've taken more and more calls about people struggling with gambling.

More gambling and more gambling. And now as sports betting, as municipalities and cities and states have been wanting to get in on the gambling action, more and more places are legalizing sports betting, especially on their phones. And check this out, dude. This is an article here, it just says, Americans spend more money betting on sports than investing in stocks.

Recent data reveals that since sports betting has become legalized in much of the US, households are diverting their income to gambling rather than investing in the stock market. Net investments have dropped 14% as in 2023 alone the American sports betting industry hit a record-breaking $10.9 billion in revenue. So this is wildcats dude. As a woman, a girl, I don't know. As a woman. I don't understand it.

Now going to Vegas, and I've admitted it on the show, and rolling some dice and playing some craps is so fun. It is so fun. The single biggest loss I've ever taken in my life was standing next to Rachel Cruz at a craps table. Sometimes it doesn't always happen, but when you get on a hot streak, it's like so fun because everyone's cheering, you're making everyone money.

It is a fun entertainment moment. When you bet on sports, you do nothing for the out, like you don't get to participate in it. That's what I don't understand the fun is. It's more fun when you're betting and you're the one playing the game. Yeah, but you're missing out on this is like the whole sports industry of America is an Instead of going out like my dad my dad I have these vivid memories of going when I was a kid to my dad had was always in a softball league

Always in a something we don't do that anymore We pay men other grown men and women but bajillions of dollars to play sports for us. Now we pay them to like- Make us money. To make us money or lose money, right? We've outsourced everything. Yes, and now there's commercials for sports. What's the one?

I don't know much about it, but it's the- I don't wanna give anybody publicity there. But that's what's crazy to me is now, you didn't see that 10 years ago. No. But the commercials now for it, I'm like, oh my gosh. 38 states have legalized gambling and it's become a growth industry

generating more than 120 billion in total bets. Oh my gosh. And like I said, 10.11 billion dollars in 2023. In one year. Yeah. In one year. No, 120 billion total bets, yeah, in 11 billion revenue one year, yeah, 120 billion total bets. Yeah. And 11 billion revenue one year.

Yeah. And investing has taken a hit. And so there was an average 7.7% of households made online bets of one of these studies with about $1,100 a year. And here's the challenge. And here's the deal. They know this about lottery.

It impacts low-income people more right if you don't if you don't owe anybody on your house a house payment if you don't owe anybody credit cards if you've got a stable job you can go to vegas and spend a couple hundred bucks and lose it and it's annoying you can go ah man sure sure if you don't have 200 to gamble because that's your light in your water bill and and yet you think, man, if I hit, this could change everything for me, it's an outsized impact on you for doing the same exact behavior, right?

This study says that financially constrained households are particularly noticing the negative effects here. And it kills, man. And I think what's hard too, this is what I don't like about gambling the lottery. Anytime you are delegating out winning financially to someone else or to a system, is you're putting your hope in something

that there's no payoff in, right? It's different when you're investing over a period of time because there is a proven track record that your money will make money. Oh, there's a proven track record in the lottery. Somebody wins. Maybe it's gonna be me this time. But every time you put money in the market,

for the most part, over time, over the long haul, your money's gonna make money. But for gambling, the lottery, all of it, it is like this quick, it's a quick win idea that my life is gonna change because of this one play that I'm doing. And that's so much easier than playing the longer game financially.

And check this out, as it applies to the message that Dave's been talking about for 30 years, increase in betting and consumption drives an increase in financial instability in terms of decreased credit availability and increased credit card and a higher incidence of overdrawn accounts. What does that mean? People are putting, now that it's all so easy on your phone,

everyone's just putting on their credit card. They're just taking out money and putting it on bets and people are going into debt to make financial bets, which, and you lose, and I gotta make it back, dude, so I'm gonna take out another loan and now I find myself way over my head. Yep, yep. Because what is it? I mean, I think the it back dude, so I'm gonna take out another loan and now I find myself way over my head. Yep, yep. Because what is it?

I mean, I think the same is true like when you buy something, right? The excitement, the dopamine, but when you're betting. There's the anticipation, the anticipation, the anticipation and then, whew, the payoff. Which is what your cortisol,

like what's the like, what's going on? I mean, the nerdiness doesn't matter as much as, you have a biochemical response in your body that begins to build that apprehension, apprehension, apprehension, and the great Analympic describes it as a teeter totter. The more on one side of the teeter totter, your body's way of leveraging it is pain.

It hurts, right? It's the next morning after a bender. You are in physical pain. And the only way people sometimes handle that pain is by doing it again, right? Is increasing it again. You just get on this teeter totter of anticipation, anticipation, and then wham! And it drops you below baseline.

And so your dopamine falls off a cliff, right? And is that where the addiction starts to play in? Because some people I know, it's like they have- Addiction is I don't wanna hurt. Yep. Right, and so I'm the addiction starts to play in because some people I know it's like they have addiction is I don't want to hurt Yep, right. And so I'm gonna come up with a behavior instead of dealing with that core hurt I'm gonna come up with a behavior and my body's gonna begin to automate a behavior that helps hurt less And unfortunately comes to addiction you need more and more of that behavior To cover up higher and higher amounts of pain of everybody trying to equalize itself, right?

Get back to equilibrium and it just hurts on top of hurts, on top of hurts. And you find yourself, I'm putting sports gambling on a credit card, right? It's mess, mess, mess, mess, mess. What a mess we're in. What does this mean? Don't gamble unless you can set that money

on fire in your living room and you can laugh about it. Yep. Right? Totally. Yes. Yeah. We always say that. I mean, if there's anything that you're doing financially that has a big risk gambling would be one playing craps when you're in Vegas once a year. I would include that. Crypto. I would put crypto in the same bucket. Like anything that does not have a long-term track record, anything that has a high level of risk for you to lose that money, even investing in a friend's business or something comes to you with this idea, hey, hey, hey.

Make sure you've got the other side of the barbell secure. That's right, so that's the point is like, anytime you're going to do any of these like risky level moves financially, to your point, emotionally, you have to be able to set that money on fire and you're fine. Meaning you're out of debt, you have a be able to set that money on fire and you're fine. Meaning you're out of debt, you have a fully funded emergency fund,

you are investing 15% of your income into retirement. So instead of investing, going down, the amount of people investing going down, it needs to be the opposite for you. If you're not investing, you need to get yourself in a place where you are because that is a proven track record for your money to make money in the long term.

And if you have kids, you're saving for college, you know, you're paying off the house. And once the house is paid off, then it's like, okay, I have disposable income. We are in a solid place financially that we're not gonna harm ourselves by, you know, putting a small amount of money in this, that, or that, you know, playing this, playing that.

But just know what you're getting into as well. And know yourself. There's a level of self-awareness that like if you do have that kind of personality that you know yourself that you're going to keep going, you know, just don't just. I like to say any sort of vice needs to be for fun, not for strategy. That's great, John. So if you, if you, if you want to have a drink with your buddies and you all laugh real loud, you tell little stories, great.

If drinking makes you feel better at the end of the day, you need to deal with that. If it's a way you can deal with, I remember this is a, gosh, this is gonna get dark. I used to give a survey to my grad students and I remember every year I started stopping the conversation because one of the questions was, I need three or four drinks or two or three drinks

to engage in some sort of sexual activity. I remember saying, hey, if you have to drink to override your body's natural break system, don't do that, right? If you have to gamble to feel alive again, go talk to somebody, right? Because I want you to feel alive in your own skin. So it can be fun, but don't use it as a strategy. That's a great point.

So good. Well, thank you guys for listening and watching. If you're on podcasts or YouTube, this is it for you. But make sure to go over to the Ramsey network app. It is completely free and you will get the third hour of the show there. If you're listening on traditional radio. We are still with you.

Thank you, America. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing,

bada boom. Alright, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.