The Ramsey Show - To Get Different Results You Must Do Different Things

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

📱Watch the full episode for free in the Ramsey Network app. Rachel Cruze & Jade Warshaw answer your questions and discuss: "How do we get out of $123k of debt?" "Is it too late for me to start investing?" Why you shouldn't waltz carelessly into bankruptcy, "I feel like I'm completely broke all the time," Support Our Sponsors: FAIRWINDS Credit Union: Check out the exclusive account bundle designed for Ramsey fans Zander Insurance: Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282 for a fast and easy quote today. BetterHelp: betterhelp.com/Delony to get 10% off your first month   Christian Healthcare Ministries: Find out more at https://info.chministries.org/dave-ramsey Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! 🚢 The Live Like No One Else Cruise is booking fast!  💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 🏆 Set and actually reach your goals with the NEW 2025 Ramsey Goal Planner! Hurry—They sell out every year! 🛒 Shop the online store at Ramsey Solutions Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with bestselling author and my good friend, Jade Warshaw. And we'll be answering your questions. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. And we'll be talking about your life, your money, your relationships, your work, anything and everything. So give us a call. We're starting off in Tampa, Florida with Jasmine. Hey, Jasmine, welcome to the show.

Jasmine, are you there? Yes, I'm here. Oh, there she is. There she is. Hi, Jasmine. Yeah, absolutely. How can we help? So I've been watching for about three days now

and just kind of learned a whole lot, like a whole mind life changer. And I'm just trying to figure out how to approach, I guess, what, you know, what you guys are saying is the best thing for us to do and how to pay off our debt. Because we did have a situation recently where both of our cars broke. And so we did have to get into a different vehicle. It was within like two weeks apart and both the motors went out. Oh, man. And so, yeah. It was bad.

I was on the side of the road about three times because we tried to kind of save it. And so I had to use roadside assistance, things like that. But one of the cars we sent back and the other one we traded in. And so unfortunately, we do have a note now in the state that I live in. They don't allow you to change your mind because we were thinking about sending it back, but they said we're not allowed to. What do you trade up to? It's a Ford Expedition 2020.

2020. Okay. What do you owe on it 41,500 mama wait a second you traded you traded all the way up okay i know i know i know if you were to sell it because i mean this is still pretty fresh um and thankfully you got a used vehicle so somebody else took the biggest hit if you were to sell it tomorrow do you think you could get could get the 41 000 back private i have no idea okay i think that you get it from a dealership yes ma'am yeah yeah yeah because yeah usually you'll get a better deal from a private seller so yeah so there's a good a good chance there Jasmine, how much, number one, thanks for being a new listener in three days. So that you're already, your mind's

churning, which I love. So give us your overall just kind of financial picture. How much debt do you guys have in total? So it's my husband and I, and we do have in total $123,865. I've been totaling this up since I've been listening to y'all for the past three days. I've been going crazy, like writing everything down from least to greatest. Good. But I do have student loans, and these student loans are mine. They're not my husband's. They're mine.

Okay. And it's $63,508. I did just graduate nursing school in July. Okay. So I'm about to take my board. And the $63 is part of the $123, correct? Yeah. Okay, so what's the remaining $60? The $41,526 for the truck. And then we have other debt of $18,831.

What is that, credit cards? Credit cards, old energy bill or electricity from like back in the day. We've been together for 13 years. So you've got some stuff in default? Yeah. Collections?

Yeah. Okay. Are you prioritizing the collections stuff at all? I don't know. That's why I'm calling. I don't really know what to do. I know that that snowball was supposed to go from least to greatest, but I didn't know if I'm supposed to just keep going with that or if I should.

Because my student loans right now, they're in deferment because I just finished school. So I'm not supposed to start paying until like December, January type. Well, I do want you current on things that need to be current on things like electricity. If you're not current on your phone bills, anything like that, that you're not current on, that's part of your monthly flow. I don't want you not to be current. So the first thing would be, let's get current on that.

Then we're working through this debt snowball. That way you're not, it's not getting worse and worse for your month-to-month stuff. Yeah, and the collection aspect, Jasmine. The energy bill is an old energy bill. It's from like 10 years ago. All of our current bills are current. We're actually at the head of our current bills. We're A on top of that.

Everything is current. We got money in our emergency fund and everything, but I just don't know how to attack the old stuff. What's in the emergency fund? Our emergency fund um our emergency fund right now um 700 like eight eighteen hundred okay eighteen hundred and three dollars but i know we're only supposed to have a thousand so i was going to take the rest of it and put somewhere else i just don't know what i would do what's in collections? How much is it? $18,830.

That's all in collections. Oh, $18,000 is all in collections. Yeah, it's like a gang of old bills. So, Jasmine, yeah. So, what we found when this happens, you actually probably can negotiate a lot with this considering how old these bills are because they've probably been sold to a collection company.

I mean, it's probably on the fourth person now that has these bills are Because they've probably been sold to Collection company I mean it's probably on the Fourth person now that has these bills Because they just keep selling them So what I would do is And they're all going to be different ones right So maybe what four or five Different types of debt within that 18,000

Yeah you've got the energy bill What are the other types of It's 11 different ones 11 okay so I would be which is going to take It's going to be your part time job here for the next Two weeks Jasmine is I would contact All of those collection companies and just Say and get it in writing

If you can but sometimes I mean honestly I mean sometimes pennies to the dollar You know that they will actually settle With you so that would be my first Step just to say hey these are old um i don't have any money i have eighteen hundred dollars to mine or i won't even tell them that but like i don't have any money um and what what can i do to get these settled because i'm ready to get these out and just see from a and they're going to hear you as motivated

which is good and see if you can talk them down because you really might be able to. You've got $800 cash. They don't have to know that, but say one of them is for $400. Say, can I sell all this today for $150? I bet they will. I'll give you cash. Get it in writing. Yeah, just get everything in writing in that, Jasmine. And how much are you guys making a year, you and your husband combined?

So I just finished nursing school. I start working on the 23rd um right now so i make nothing but he makes um somewhere between 90 and 100k okay and how much will you i thought i was projected to make about 70 oh great excellent okay you guys will be good so honestly jasmine i mean yeah if i were you i always like to play like a theoretical game let's just pretend you guys got rid of the of the car right you sold it um maybe make three thousand dollars on it since it came from a dealership who knows right you actually could get more we'll see um I would do that I would save up ASAP and get a and get a couple thousand dollars to replace that car I would do that first and then you look at your debt

and that's $81,000 left if you get rid of that $41,000. And then let's pretend that that, you know, some of that debt, the $18,000, what if you got it down to $10,000? Yeah. And half maybe, yeah.

So that's $71,000. And you guys could pay this off in 18 months. Like if you guys throw your entire salary at this debt and some of his and live on a really tight budget, I mean, Jasmine, you guys could have a completely different financial picture in 18 months. It's not even my debt and my heart started beating fast. I got excited for

you, Jasmine. So, hey, hold on the line, Jasmine, and Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you Financial Peace University. This is our nine lesson course that's going to walk through everything from the debt snowball, building a budget, to marriage and money, even talking about you and your husband working together, to insurance, mortgages, everything you need to know from a basic love about money. That is our course. You guys sit down, go through that together, and then every dollar, the premium version that connects to your bank accounts, we're going to give that to you as well. We're excited for you. Thanks for the call.

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They serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. Anything you could do at a bank branch, you can do on fairwinds.org. Plus, your deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to $250,000. So talk to my friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans. Go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. So one thing that is approaching quickly, Jade, is the Live Like No One Else cruise. We have 85% of the cabins booked and you guys don't want to miss it. We're going to Turks and Caicos. We're

going to St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas. It's just going to be, it's going to be amazing. So good. Yep. And your tickets, of course, include with a cruise ship. All your food is included, even room service. There's lounges by all the pools and the hot tubs. And we're all going to be there, all the Ramsey personalities and a whole lineup of other guests. So it's going to be a really, really fun week, you all. And again, this is for those of you on Baby Steps 4 and beyond. And we want to celebrate you because we talk about living like no one else. So later you can live and you can give like no one else. And this is part of enjoying the money and where you are financially. And you're going to do it with us.

And we can't wait. So it is March 22nd through the 29th. And it's coming up fast. So you do not want to miss this incredible vacation you go to ramseysolutions.com slash cruise or you can click the link in the description if you are watching on youtube or listening on podcast love it up next we have shannon in pensacola florida hey shannon welcome to the show how are y'all we are doing well thanks Thanks for calling. How can we help? Well, I just have a random question because I've been getting a... So I own a home here in Pensacola. That's my only debt.

And I have a current interest rate at 7.49. And I've been getting... I just feel like there's just so much fraud going on. And I don't know how y'all feel about that. What kind of fraud? What do you mean? Well, I just mean like on so many different levels. So I had a kid called me today who said, oh, well, we can give you, you have an FHA loan, so we can give you a five point, I don't know what he said, four two and oh, no money down. I go, wait a minute. I'm a business development person. So I'm like,

well, what's in it for you guys? So he wanted you to refinance and he's going to get the fees associated with that. He wanted me to refinance, but I'm like, wait a minute, how does this work out? Cause I keep in touch with my current mortgage broker that I use to buy the home. I keep in touch with her and I say, Hey, what are they at? Cause I got a letter from FHA who said, Hey, we can go down to 5.25 to 5.2%. And I just wanted to know y'all's thoughts on that. And I just feel like, I'm like, okay. I mean, you're right. I need to wait.

And I know this election, there's just so much. All right, Shannon. I don't want to have to do it again. Shannon, let's roll it on home. All right, here's the thing. Yeah. Yes. I think that we are starting to be at a turning point when we're going to see I mean, we already have seen mortgage interest rates go down. And I think they're going down again this month. That's what the Fed is saying. They should. Yeah. And we might even see it before they release,

you know, their report or in their report report of the interest rates whatever but my point is you get to decide right if you don't want to refinance you don't have to refinance and if there's an offer you want my mortgage to go down y'all okay well if there's an offer that presents itself to you and you're interested in it i i just you started out the conversation start talking about scams and then we kind of went to the election and then we kind of went to interest rates and I want to

kind of clear it out. Being able to refinance your house at a lower interest rate is not a scam unless you do your due diligence and find okay, this is not reputable. Unless you use a scammer for it. Some random guy that calls you. I probably wouldn't use him. Well I just think the guy that called me I'm just making a point

is that he's like oh it doesn't cost you anything and I'm like hmm wait a minute that's kind of where I'm coming down. So yeah they're probably to your point anything that comes up that is exciting right now we find this always in the financial industry

there's always going to be people prying on that, right? So whether it's mortgage rates are dropping, so people are going to clamor to refinance, and there may be scammers out of that. Crypto became a big thing. Scammers flock to that. They will flock to try to get people's money. So that's where your discernment, Shannon, comes in,

that if you choose, and probably will, and anyone listening, refinancing, if you're going to be in the house long-term, it's a great option yeah and so maybe you wait another six months to see you continue you know after the election to see if it keeps dropping and then maybe shannon you decide to do that then i would use a reputable broker whether you have one uh churchill mortgage is one that we recommend here at ramsey i'm from oklahoma she's from oklahoma and i'm a instructor yeah that's from Oklahoma, and I just trust her. Yeah, that's great.

That's great. Yeah, yeah. So doing it reputably. So yeah, I think for sure that it would be, I think it's a great option, and people will be doing that more and more. And I think you had great advice there, Rachel. If you're looking at rates and you're seeing them go down,

I wouldn't jump to refinance instantly. I'd let it happen. Let them roll back because they're probably not going to jump right back up. Right. We have finally gotten to the point where it's like, OK, inflation is at this point. Unemployment's at this point. It has to happen. So I'm with you.

I'd probably wait until after the election, let the chips fall where they do. And then you can make the wisest decision for sure. All right. Up next, we got Mike in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Mike. Welcome to the show. Hello. How are you? right. Up next, we got Mike in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Mike. Welcome to the show. Hello. How are you? We're doing great. How can we help? Okay. I'm 42 years old and I made some bad financial decisions in my life regarding 401k and stuff like that. Got divorced. Ex-wife took half the 401k and I've cashed in a few times.

And I'm basically starting over at 42. I have like 21,000 in my 401k now. And I'm only putting in like 6% because we're on baby step number two. And I was going to see, is it too late? No, not at all. Not at all. Not by a long shot. No. And if anything, this will probably scare you more, Mike, I would advise you to even pause that 6% while you're getting out of debt. Because here's the deal. When you free up so much of your payments, you're able to throw then 15% of your income at retirement and be able to catch up.

So how much debt do you guys have? The house, we got like $83,000 on and the truck we're trying to get paid off. We should have paid off by the end of this year. How much is it? I got like 10, almost $11,000 left in it.

You keep saying we. Who's we? Me and my wife. I thought you were... Okay, so you got divorced. You remarried. Yeah, my ex-wife took half the 401k. I got remarried.

Okay, perfect. Okay, perfect. So $11,000 on the truck. A lot better. Yeah, that's great. Okay, so $11,000 on the truck. What else do you guys have? Just a mortgage.

Okay, so the $11,000. Okay. Yeah, so the mortgage goes, obviously, in on the truck. What else do you guys have? Just a mortgage. Okay. So the 11,000. Okay. Yeah. So the mortgage goes obviously in baby step six. So we're not worried about that right now. So yeah, I would get this 11,000. How much do you guys make combined income? I make 37.84 an hour and she makes about 30. Okay. What's that amount to every month? Do I know? What's that amount to every month? Do what now? What's that amount to every month? What do you see monthly on your budget? Oh, around $5,000, $6,000 a month. Okay.

Just for me. Just for you? Yes. And then what does she bring in a month? It's close to $5,000. Okay, that's great. So you guys are making $120,000 a year? Fair? Yeah, close to 5 000 okay that's great so you guys are making 120 000 a year fair yeah close to okay so yeah i would pause that six percent mike honestly until this truck's

paid off and then you guys get a fully funded emergency fund and then press play and then you got 15 um jade's got her fancy calculator out so we're gonna be are you able to yeah i got it in there say so you were worried earlier you're like i, I'm 42. I've made these mistakes. And here's the thing. This is just the picture you painted today. Let's pretend you clear out this car. You clear out the step pretty quickly. And you said you make about 120,000 a year. You know, if you're putting around 15% into investments, that's about $1,500 a month. Let's say you do that from the time you're 42 to the, to the time you're 65. And I'm just using the Ramsey Solutions investment calculator.

You already had $21,000 in there, which is great. So if every month you contribute $1,500 at a 10% rate of return, which is average, contrary to popular belief, I mean, that's almost $2 million. It's $1.8 million. And that's a big deal. That's plenty. And that's on the current income you have, Mike. That's almost $2 million. It's $1.8 million. And that's a big deal. That's plenty. And that's on the current income you have, Mike. That's right.

That's not you getting raises and your wife changing jobs. I mean, it will continue. Usually for most people, their income continues to go up in their lifetime. So $2 million, Mike, you're on track. Don't you worry. But hey, it's a good little like, you know, we talk about how fear can be a gift. There's a great book called Fear is a Gift, and there is a gift of fear. And there is a beauty in it because it kind of does shake you up a little bit.

Oh, my gosh, am I late? And then you're able to say, okay, what changes do we need to make for this not to be a reality? That's right. So you're doing great, Mike. I appreciate you calling, and good luck to you and your wife because, yeah, you guys are on track. This is The ramsey show are you working the baby steps one of the smartest and most impactful changes you can make is to ditch your cash value life insurance plan if you have one and replace it with a term life policy listen the only thing a cash value policy is good for is overcharging you for the life insurance

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw and answering your questions. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. We are going to Cameron in Atlanta. Hey, Cameron. Welcome to the show. Hey, Cameron, welcome to the show. Hey, how's it going? Doing great. How can we help?

Yeah, I'm contemplating bankruptcy and I wanted to call you guys and see if that's something that you guys would recommend. Oh gosh, Cameron, what's going on? Well, I stopped paying my credit cards probably about seven to eight months ago. And, uh, when I stopped paying, I was at approximately $85,000 in credit card debt. What caused you to stop paying? Um, so I started a business about three years ago and we just had a hard year. Um, and I'm on and off working with my brother-in-law who

owns his own business as well. So when I get slow, I call him work for him if he has the work, but it was just a very slow year last year. And so we kind of had to live off credit cards. Is there other debt or just the 85,000? Uh, I have a mortgage, but no car or anything else like that. Okay. And was this $85,000 for business expenses that you were trying to keep afloat when you were slow? Or was this lifestyle that this was all personal? I'd say probably $20,000 to $30,000 of it was business.

And the rest was just paying bills and any cash that I came in. Mortgage doesn't take a credit card. Yeah, you got the mortgage. Are you married? Mortgage, and then, yes, I am. Kids? Two kids. Two kids, okay.

How are you and your wife? How's she doing? Good. I mean, we're doing as good as we can. What's she bringing in? What's her income? She's a stay-at-home mom. Okay. And what are you currently bringing in? My last year's adjusted gross income was $35,000, but that was the year that, you know, we really had to kind of make things tight. So Cameron, does your wife know, does your wife know everything going on?

Yeah. Yeah. That you're going to, that you're going to be filing, like that y'all were talking about bankruptcy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The debts in both are, or some of the debts and her name, some's in my name and we're

both on the same page. Okay. So here's my take on this. I have one more question. I want to know how old are the kids? Four years old and two years old. Okay. And I also want to know what were you making? What was a good year for you? Probably be the year before. I think business made about $200,000. I made about half of that. So you took home, you pocketed $100,000 as your own paycheck? Approximately. I'd have to pull up my paperwork, but yeah, between $80,000 and $100,000 is probably

a good year for me. Okay. So I think the problem is, there's several problems here, but there's been an inconsistency in pay and it's been on the lower end for a really long time. And you did have a really bad year, but I don't think that was I think that just was the final nail in the coffin, so to speak. What's happened here is you guys, whether you realize it or not, you're making a series of choices. The longer that you go with this lower income and that you go where your wife says, hey, I'm staying at home because again, staying at home is a choice that you afford to make or don't afford to make, if that makes sense. And right now, you guys both have to be working. You've got to get a higher income. She's got to get some sort of income. That's the only way this works, because even if you file for bankruptcy, you're going to find yourself right back in the same situation again.

And it's going to be that much more frustrating. So the root of the problem has to change. What do you what do you do by trade? What's your specialty? So by trade, when I worked for my brother-in-law, a commercial electrician, I currently work for myself building decks, part of those outdoor wooden structures. Okay. So I think that obviously you know how to make money doing that, but right now that feels like an amazing side hustle while you do something full-time which i have this year i have gone full-time with my brother-in-law okay and what are you making from that this year okay 33 an hour so

um i think that's roughly 63 000 a year or something like that okay that's that's great okay so at this point it's all about figuring out how to pay off this debt, right? Their credit cards, how many separate credit cards are there? I would say, I mean, I have them here. I can count 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17. Okay. So if you were to file for bankruptcy, basically what they're going to do is a lot of what we're doing right now. They're going to analyze your income. They're going to analyze how much debt you have, what assets you could sell off in order to pay it. And that's basically what we're going to do. Only you're going to have control in the process. It's not just the government reaching in and doing it all for you. Yeah. Because what's going to happen,

Cameron, the bankruptcy route, even though it stays on your report, it follows you for a decade, right? I mean, like it is the long term leaning because that's the easy button is what it feels like and what you have to realize about money is that money it is it is behavior change because to jade's point if you do this and you guys go back to i mean you charge 55 000 for your lifestyle on credit cards instead of saying oh crap i need to probably i gotta go up my income and we can't keep doing this. And so by just, quote, unquote, the easy button, which it's not easy. I mean, it is, bankruptcy is traumatic.

I mean, it's terrible. No, I completely agree with you. Okay. Not to put you off, I apologize. No, no, no, I want you to, because I am a little worried. I mean, there is a part of me where I'm like, how's your wife? You said she's good.

I'd be like, Cameron, I would be, I would be. I mean, like, she's, you know, I would be. I mean, like she's, you know, obviously worried about the situation as well. But she knows what's going on. Okay. I know. I just,

I want the, yeah, the urgency. Since we've stopped paying our credit cards, we've just been cash only. And I've made that a point to her as well. There's just, you know,

we have one other credit card that's still open and we haven't touched it yeah you gotta cut well you gotta cut that off so you've closed have you closed all those accounts uh the one that we have i only use it when i run work uh because i have to buy material to build decks and stuff i buy i buy the material i get paid i pay it off that's the only credit card i use now, but I'm trying to get to cash only. That's the only time I ever use it is because that makes me my cash. So what are y'all doing with, okay, so when we get off the call, Cameron,

get out a pair of scissors and cut up all 19 credit cards. Get rid of them. So it's not even, they're not even there. And then- Oh, the other ones are gone, but that's the only one we have.

Right. I wouldn't even keep that though because to Rachel's point, this is a behavior thing. This is, if I don't have the money to do it, I put it on a credit card and that goes for personal, that goes for groceries,

that goes for business. And what happens is, and I'm speaking from experience when you cut off that, you know, that supply quote unquote lifeline, that lifeline. Yeah. When you cut that off,

it, it rises up a creativity inside of you to get stuff done gsd that's what we call it and that's what happens you go okay i gotta do this what do i have to do and suddenly you notice your lawnmower and you go oh that could make me some money and suddenly you know your wife notices the oven and she goes oh that can make me some money and you start looking at other things that can give you money that's actually your money that you don't have to repay. And that's so powerful.

And right now, that credit card, it's a crutch and it's keeping you financially weak is what it's doing. So for the jobs, have them fund the money beforehand, right? It just changes the whole perspective. So yeah, so Cameron, you are not, as we finish up this call, you are not bankrupt. No. I would list out all of those debts, those credit card debts, smallest to largest. Yeah, so Cameron, you are not, as we finish up this call, you are not bankrupt. No. I would list out all of those debts,

those credit card debts, smallest to largest. You are behind on them. So they've probably, at this point, gone into collections. Some of them may have. So I would contact them and just say, hey, we don't have any money to pay this, but will you settle with us? And if you do that, get in writing.

And it's going to take you guys. I mean, yeah, you're making $63,000 with hopefully some side hustle. You can get that up to maybe $80,000. Mama's got to work, too. And she does. Anything that she can do in the evenings, she can do things remotely, virtually. And she's probably going to hate it, Cameron.

She may not want to. But for you guys to get out of this ASAP, something has to change. If you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. So I'm thankful that you guys are on a cash system now. That's a great habit to get in. But I would grind it out, and it's going to take you guys three to four years. But you can do it.

You can do it. We see it all the time. So we're rooting for you guys, Cameron. Thanks for the call. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is the season for Halloween. It's October. We're wearing costumes and we're wearing masks. So if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. And while you're thinking about it, I want you to be honest. A lot of us hide ourselves. We hide our true selves behind costumes and masks all the

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We're going to go to Mark in Chicago. Hey, Mark. Welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? Well, I've been doing a bunch of research on investment accounts and what I have available. And I made a change in my investment strategy that feels very unorthodox. And I was looking to get your guys' on it. Uh, my employer offers profit sharing. Um, so typically the order of operation would be to, um, invest in the 401k up until the employer match, but they do profit sharing and it's not dependent on my contribution.

So I recently just pulled back almost all of my 401k contributions. And we also have an HSA and I've been putting the contributions into that. So looking into it, the HSA seems to be a, what they call a triple tax advantage account. So the math shows that this would be the correct route, but it seems like such a big shift. And over the span of 20 to 30 years, it seems like it could have huge impacts either for good or bad. So I just want to get your guys' opinion on that. Yeah, what's the current match that your employer has or the contribution that you don't? How much is it? 15%.

Nice. Wow. So they're giving you 15% without a match? Is that what you're saying? Correct, yeah. No, it's not guaranteed every year, but I've been with the company for about three years and I've talked to people who have been there for 10. And since for that whole 10 years,

it's been 15% every year. Sheesh. That's awesome. Yeah, it's pretty great. Okay. And then the profit sharing, how does that shake out? Is it a monthly thing?

How do they distribute that um once a year once a year lump sum yeah okay and why can't that just be a great bonus in part of your income like are you're not viewing it as a supplement to your income um i'm viewing it as a supplement to my retirement well yeah, yeah, a combination of my retirement with the 401k and the HSA if I were to. But they're not investing it for you. You're seeing it reflected into your paycheck, right? No, they're investing it into my 401k. Got it. Interesting. The entire amount. Correct. And then so i basically shifted my contributions to the 401k to the hsa which i can invest the funds in there without any taxes being taken out so again i just

want to clarify this so you've got the profit sharing that is equivalent to however many thousands of dollars a month that they're investing for you and you get a 15% match. Is that right? No, I'm sorry. It's only the... Or the profit sharing is the 15%. Correct. They do not match anything that I contribute. Okay. They just give the 15% contribution. Then I probably wouldn't do your strategy. I would consider that 15% a match in the words that you used, and I would invest my own 15% because it sounds like this is something that happens consistently but not necessarily all the time. Do you have a Roth IRA, Mark?

I do, but I haven't been contributing to it. I have $8,000 in that. Okay. Yeah, because there's something powerful about having control over those investments and something like a Roth IRA. And the HSA, it is a great, my husband and I, we do this.

We'll max out what we can every year. And the HSA is another great vehicle to do it. So, but I- Because you're probably maxing out your 401k with their 15 contribution plus maybe whatever a couple percent percentages on your end right um so right now i'm contributing four percent to my 401k they're contributing 15 of my salary and are you maxing it out 12 into the hsa okay but are you maxing out the 401k every year no you're not okay so you could it's a great match you could max that out but i'm with

rachel i would then go to a roth ira and max that out before i went to an hsa okay um you're gonna have the whole you're gonna have the whole market open to you in a Roth IRA right but if I invest the funds in the HSA as well wouldn't that be equivalent to no a Roth IRA or similar not necessarily I mean you have to wait number one until I think you're age 65 for those funds to be available to you. Versus 59 and a half. Yeah, versus 59 and a half. So it's a longer tail on that. But also I think that, again,

you're going to have the entire market open to you in a Roth IRA, which is what I'd be looking for. Yeah, that's just what I would do. Yeah, and I think for anyone listening, that 15% mark, which once you're out of debt and you have that fully funded emergency fund, we say to go use the employer's match because that's free money but in his case you're getting that regardless of whether you're putting money in or not but you want to go up to

the match use the roth ira max it out if you have money left you can go back to your 401k max it out and then above that then looking into other investment options you know because those are two retirement type sheltered tax sheltered accounts um and so you know prioritizing those for retirement specifically and then other investments strategies that you can do i mean you can do hsa you can do paid for real estate you can do even index funds right if you want to you know a vanguard type account right so there's other options for investing out there but just looking at those retirement buckets first and foremost is key but I would also sit down with a smart investor pro in your area and get some of that because from the tax perspective I would want

to see the numbers being laid out agree because you it is a little bit of a unique situation with your employer match I mean that's crazy yeah 15% into the 401k without you even having a match or you putting in a portion of yours. So it may be good to run some of those numbers long term because I would want the most tax benefit for you. But the Roth is a great tax benefit because even though it's after tax and your income, it is going to grow tax free. All right.

Up next, we have Sam in Bismarck, North Dakota. Hey, Sam. Welcome to the show. Hey, how are you all doing today? Doing great. How can we help? So I am in a pickle. I got in a car wreck Monday night.

Oh, I'm sorry. Are you okay? I'm fine. Everybody's fine. I was not at fault, thankfully. I got my insurance. I got all the insurance information. I had an adjuster come out and look at my pickup this morning,

and he told me that it is totaled. So I got off the phone a couple hours ago with their insurance, and they made me an offer for what my pickup's worth which is ten thousand four hundred dollars and some change okay so i got a rental car this morning their insurance is covering that um they told me if i take the settlement, the $10,000, then I'll have the rental car for five days before I need to turn it in. So I'm kind of, I don't know what to do because I have to leave for work in a week, which is...

What was your pickup worth? If you hadn't gotten in the accident, if you Kelly Blue Booked your truck, what was your truck what was it worth 10-4 okay so why don't you go buy a truck today or tomorrow yeah for 10 000 i don't know if i should do that what do you think you should do why why uh because this has all happening quickly. Well, here's the thing. I don't want to make a mistake. No, that's not a mistake. I think, yeah, your car before it was totaled was worth $10,400.

So it's a fair offer. They're giving you exactly what it was worth. And so you're getting the car the same value. You're going to be able to take that money and get the same value of vehicle you might be thinking of it as well when i got my truck it was worth you know 25 000 but it's depreciated so you're not going to go in and be getting a brand new vehicle you're going to be getting something worth ten thousand four hundred dollars which is truly comparable to the truck you had yeah and i do that yeah and if and if this is

overwhelming you, Sam, to make a quick decision, you're saying you have to go out of town. How long will you be gone for for work? Two weeks. Okay, so why don't you just turn in the rental car, go to work for two weeks, start shopping online,

calling some private sale, people that have a truck on sale. And then when you get back, then maybe you don't have a car for a few days or rent a car for a few days for 35 bucks or whatever, you know, and then make sure it's inspected. Like do your due diligence, sure, when you're buying it. But I think-

And you could spend less if you wanted to. And I think you still may have been shaken up. I mean, we're talking to you three days after you've been in a wreck that a car's been totaled. So that's no joke. So maybe you just take your time, but I wouldn't be so paralyzed by it. You can make a quick decision in this,

and I think you're going to be okay. Just don't go get a car payment. Use that 10 grand. Thanks for the call. Thanks to everyone in the booth. Thank you, Jade. Thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show.

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where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with bestselling author and my good friend, Jade Warshaw, and we are taking your calls. So give us a call at 888-825-5225, and we'll talk about your life, your money, relationships, relationships your work anything and everything so give us a call up first we have michael in cincinnati giving us a call hey michael how can we help hey how are you guys we're doing great how are you well it's been a heck of a day to say the least oh no i actually just got uh well it's the first time i've ever been fired today um you got fired today yeah like literally an hour ago what and you guys

are the first people i wanted to talk to oh gosh i was gonna say have you told your wife yet? Yeah. Yeah. No. No. What happened, Michael? What, what, what's going on? Well, I'm, I'm, I'm in sales. I've been in sales my entire career and, you know, I've talked to a lot of leadership and before, and they said it's bound to happen once. And this is actually the first time I've never excelled in a sales role. So that was very interesting for me and very difficult for me to, you know,

swallow some pride and deal with some humble pie there. But, you know, one door closes, another one's bound to open is my outlook. And so right now, just to give you the situation of my life, my wife and I just moved into a house, our house. And it's kind of a kind of co-ownership with my parents. So technically we're renting, which is really nice. It's really affordable. What does that mean?

Whose name is on the deed? And whose name is on the mortgage? It's theirs. It's their name, but we're paying for everything, right? Like we, we just needed some help to get into a house faster. Cause my wife is,

well, she's going to give birth here in the next couple of weeks. And with their, put a more sizable down payment, um, that would be able to, that would allow us to escalate, um,

the closing. So they put down the down payment the mortgage is theirs but you guys pay the note yeah will it ever be transferred into your name is the is the goal of this to eventually you guys owning the house yeah yeah i mean it could be that that's you know future discussions down the line, but it was really just to escalate the closing. So it's your parents' house and you're renting it because you couldn't afford it. And they're renting it to you at cost. Yeah. I mean, we had money for a down payment.

It was really just so that they could escalate the closing from, you know, 30-day standard to like a week or two weeks. So did you put money down as well? No. They allowed us to actually keep some money so yeah it's everything's in their name but i mean okay so it's just a rental house houses yeah we treat the houses our own right we pay for everything yeah that's what i'm a little bit okay so that's gosh so yeah that's what i'm a little bit concerned i am a little bit concerned about because whenever you do a deal with family which we usually don't recommend everything needs to be laid out. And so the fact that the future of the situation has not been talked about because, Michael, what I don't want is you guys in this house for five years.

Something happens with them. And so I don't know whatever. And then you could have been building equity in your own home that you could afford. Right. So but I think that's a separate let's it's a separate issue let's pause that because i think that we also have our own rental our own house that wait say that again you were breaking up and my wife and i we actually have another home that was our rental property um but it's it's currently rented out they signed a three-year lease actually so you own a rental property as well yes okay yes um but what's really going on is we were trying to pay off for debt we had about 75 000 between student loans car notes um and that type of thing but we have a one-year-old we have a baby who's going to come really in the next couple weeks. So being the only income, the person who provides income, based on my situation, I will be paid for about the next two months. I will have insurance for the next two months.

Okay, good. I have, well, I should say we have about $45,000 in cash sitting with one of my brokers. I have about $4,000 in cash and just disposable physical cash in one of my states. I have about $3,000 in silver and a couple thousand in just like the immediate emergency fund. Like $2,000 or like $8,000? No, $2,000.

Okay. Sorry. And right now I'm just trying to understand $2,000. Okay. Sorry. And right now I'm just trying to understand. Oh, I also have a Jeep. Are those paid off that I'm going to sell? What's it worth? About $14,000. Okay.

Okay, good. So, Michael, I mean, I could give you my timeline ASAP. Yeah, easy. I would 100% be looking for another job today, even though you're getting severance. So once you get a full-time job, then I would press play on the baby steps. We do say that that snowball can go on pause

if you guys are pregnant, which you are. So that is a reason to pause. And if a big life change happens, if you're going to be moving soon, if there's a job change, I mean, all of it, you know, you can pause for a season. So that's exactly where you guys are. I would pause until baby comes, until you have a new job which again michael i would say

a new job this isn't you calling us in 12 months saying i'm still looking for a job this is you finding a job in the next 60 days take any job until you get the job and then i would be cashing out the silver you have that emergency fund you had the 45 000 that's 50 000 that can be thrown at the 75 000 and then you had 14 000 from the jeep so you guys are debt free i mean yeah you're done yeah the 4 000 cash too yep so that's so that's you're done there you can use that 4 000 as your starter emergency fund the fully funded emergency fund um and then i would just i would just keep rocking and rolling and then the next question for me would be the house and i would sit down with your parents or your in-laws um whichever set of parents that was and i would have a very clear

kind but very clear written down idea of what this next step is going to be because in your rental house i'm curious do you guys have a clause that if you sell um that the renter i mean do you have anything in your lease that gives you the ability to sell the rental house I have a property management company He did everything because He bought the house Do you know what's in the lease I have to take a look

Because if there's a clause We had to move to Florida If there's a clause That you can sell that property I know rental properties are so cool I would sell it and I would use that And the know rental properties are so cool and all that i would sell it and i would use that michael and the down payment you guys had saved where is that money you said i had we had saved for a down payment but it wasn't 45k it's in an um it's in america and

america's account what is that how much is that that's that's a 45 000 oh that's the 45 000 okay so then i would use the money from the rental property and use that as a down payment on a home. Your own home. Or to sell out or change the deed out of the current home if you guys can afford it, right? But I would kind of just like liquidate everything. And that is an amazing starting ground. I mean, if you have no debt, you guys have an emergency fund,

which you could use some of that proceeds. Because your rental house is in Florida, right? Is that what you said? No, it's in use some of that proceeds. Because your rental house is in Florida, right? Is that what you said? No, it's in Cincinnati. We bought it. And then four months later, we had to move to Florida for my job. Okay. I gotcha.

I gotcha. So yeah, I mean, I probably get rid of the rental and I would be doing, you know, pretty traditional investing. I'd want to get out of the rental house with the parents because you're, yeah, they're letting you run out costs, but you're paying for everything. You're paying for all the repairs, everything. And there's no equity to your name at that point. So, yeah, I would probably change that.

And again, if you guys need a minute because you want to have a baby, you can. It's not completely urgent, but I would have that conversation and start that path. So we threw a lot at you, Michael. Maybe you can go back and rewatch this. Go back and listen. But that's what we would do. And I know that takes time. It's easier said than done. But you guys have some great options, which is so exciting.

So congrats on the baby and congrats on the new job you're about to find. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, when you go against what society thinks is, quote, normal, like avoiding debt, for example, it might seem weird at first, and that is totally okay. We want you to be weird if that means doing things intentionally, including how you spend your health care dollars. And one way to be intentional is with Christian health care ministries. CHM isn't health insurance. They're a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of healthcare costs without sacrificing their freedom.

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may not be available in all states. Okay, so today's question comes from Evan in Kansas. He says, my wife and I are debt-free except our mortgage, which we owe $120,000 on. My wife recently quit her job to stay at home with our baby, and now after all our basic expenses are paid, there's nothing left over. We've been contemplating ways to save, and the only area we could really cut is food. We're considering going to some of the many food pantries in our city a few times a month to get the majority of our food so we could still have a couple hundred dollars to throw out the mortgage. Is this ethical considering I have a stable job and it's not like we'd go hungry without

the food pantry? We agree that once our mortgage is paid, we would donate these food pantry items to give back. Is this the wrong way to become debt free? I'm going to go with yes, I would not do that. I, you know, you said it best, Evan, you said, you know, you've got a stable job and you don't need this. And I think food pantries are really there for people who need it, like they're in need. And there's also the side of this where, again, we kind of talked about this earlier in the show, but if you choose the stay at home route or you choose any route that's going to have one of the spouses not working, then you make that bed and so you lay in it. And that's not a bad thing. It's just you've both decided, OK, this is going to take down our income significantly and we're OK with that.

And then you've decided this means it's going to take a lot longer to pay off the mortgage. You two decide with that. And then you've decided if this means it's gonna take a lot longer to pay off the mortgage, you two decide on that. And I would not- Yeah, use like community resources basically for, yeah, that are not of need. Yeah, I wouldn't do it. Yeah, I don't think I would either. I wouldn't do that.

So, yeah. And I think he knows that. To Jade's point, yeah, he wouldn't probably be asking if he didn't feel great about it. Yeah, yeah. So I think again, it's maybe a shift in the budget. Maybe it's waiting a year or two and you'll get a raise and you can use some of that margin. Because when you get to the point of paying off your house,

that's where we always say you can kind of relax off the accelerator and you make decisions then, you know, that may be different than baby steps one through three. Right. And the baby's going to grow up and she might decide when the baby goes to kindergarten she goes back to work and then you guys are you know that's right going forward again absolutely well thanks for the question evan all right next we have connor in jackson

mississippi hey connor welcome to the show hey guys thank you for having me on absolutely how can we help so i am a 19 year old college student um in the mississippi area but i'm also a business owner um and i'm kind of teetering on this is my second year of college i'm at a community college uh in my local hometown and i'm just trying to figure out if I want to go off and pursue a four-year degree from a university or should I stay at home and continue working on my business. What's your business? So I'm in a landscape company. It started off as you know just a side hustle when I could first start driving at 16. I just bought a push mower from Home Depot and started mowing yards. Good for you, Connor. Thank you.

Over time, it just got bigger and bigger. Now we have three full-time employees plus myself. Dang. How much are you making a month off this? So it varies, obviously. you know, in the winter. Sure. We don't do as much. But right now we're doing about, I'll say this,

last month we did $40,000 in sales. What do you take home? I think I will, I mean, I try and spend as much as possible. I try and reinvest as much as possible. Since I'm young, I don't really have any bills. I do live in an apartment, but I really don't have any bills. If you did, though, because what you're talking about, not going to college, at some point, then it's like, okay, well, you're going to get your own place

and you're going to need income. So if you did draw on income, what do you think it'd be? If I needed to, I could probably scratch out probably about $60,000 a year right now. Okay, that's great. So the question is, do you go to college or work on the business that's growing? What do you want to do, Connor? Are you enjoying this business? Are you wanting to do this full time?

Is your mindset for going to college to help grow the current business or to start something new get a different degree like what would be the four-year college goal um it would probably so my major right now is just a business administration it's not in like landscape architecture or anything like that i'm not necessarily tied down to landscaping, but I do, I do enjoy working with my hands, but what I enjoy more is being a business owner. I've always been an entrepreneur ever since I was young, uh, between flipping shoes and clothes and buying stuff low and selling it high. It's just always, it's my blood I think that's I think that's a great indicator because obviously the college and university route is not for everybody growing

in your education is for everybody um what I would say is really looking at your five to ten year picture if you when you picture yourself in five years what do you see yourself doing and when you look and then when you reverse engineer that you go okay does that require me having a degree how did I get there like really think through that because you know there's the societal timeline of when you're 18 you go to college but if you're not ready to do that yet and if you can't afford to go there yet yeah well I mean because I was going to say Connor there's you know you go to college to either get some type of degree to get you in a field

that you need, right? And there still are definitely routes, career routes that require a college degree. And you mentioned like landscape architect, right? Maybe there's an architectural degree

that you need because you want to work for this firm in five years. Like there's a route so you're getting somewhere. But I would personally i would not go and get a business degree and spend 60 70 000 because you know what connor i'll be honest you're learning a heck of a lot more running your own business than you're going to

be some theory sitting in business class it's gonna be behind anyway i mean honestly seriously it's so true and like the life experience that you have is so much greater than usually what you can learn in a classroom. Not always. Yeah. But in a business entrepreneurial route, people run and grow businesses all the time without a college degree. And you're getting, you know, a really basic degree there with your community college, which I think is really smart to do. I do too. But I mean, if your goal is to have this company, continue to grow it,

I don't play that out. You don't need a college degree to do that. So I would save the investment of what you would pay for college and continue down this route if I were you. But again, if you get into something that's a little bit more specific and tied to some type of licensing or, you know, degree that you need then maybe you look into it but for now connor i mean you're killing it is there anybody that's $40,000 with three employees i mean it's pretty impressive do you have a a business that's doing what you want to be doing that you're watching yes so i actually have two mentors before i started my own company when i was 15 i worked for one of my good buddies his dad is has been in the landscaping industry for

30 years probably okay and he's very large and he did not go to college either um and so he he So he is from a suburb of Jackson. And as Jackson in the metro area grew, he just, like his name just spread out everywhere. And he does multi-million sales every single year. Oh, I believe it. No commercial. It's all residential. And so that's kind of what I want to do. And I talk to him very, very often.

That's great. You know, I hold on the line, Connor, and Christian's going to pick up and we'll give you a copy of Entree Leadership because I think there is a, what you're experiencing as a small business. I mean, you're having to lead people, which is what you really enjoy running that business side. But it can be tricky. And as you continue to grow it, there's going to be, you know, more avenues to go down and it's going to get a little bit more complicated. And then the entrepreneurial side that is so ingrained in you,

you obviously have that, um, inside of you, which is just amazing. So we'll send you a copy of Entree Leadership and make sure to check out even the podcast. And, um, we have a,

yeah, part of Ramsey is helping small businesses because we believe in them. We think it is the backbone of America and it's incredible. So Connor, 19 years old guy, man, kid, I was gonna call you a kid. You're not a kid. A man. A man. Yeah. But you're doing really great, Connor. So I appreciate

the call. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey folks, Dave here. If you haven't booked your cabin on the Live Like No One Else cruise, now's the time because it's 90 something percent sold out. You do not want to miss joining me, the Ramsey personalities, and amazing guest entertainers for the ultimate debt-free celebration. We'll be sailing the Caribbean March 22nd through the 29th, 2025, stopping at the incredible Turks and Caicos, Puerto Rico, St. Thomas, and the Bahamas. Hurry to secure your spot with a $600 deposit today at ramseysolutions.com slash cruise. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. I'm Rachel

Cruz hosting with Jade Warshaw and we're going to go to Brandon in Columbus, Ohio. Hey Brandon, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you doing today? We're doing great. How can we help? So the reason I'm calling is I can't seem to build any kind of wealth whatsoever. What's happening? Tell us more. Well, you know, I got three boys, and I got a wife that stays at home, and I'm the only income. But I think I make okay money, but every time I try to build some wealth, you know, like something happens with the kids or something along that line. Tell us about your income. What are you making every year?

Well, I'm a union electrician. Okay. making every year well i'm a union electrician okay so i make about 15 28 if i work on saturdays okay i usually work saturdays so every month if you look at your budget how much is on that top item um my budget uh it takes about 4,800 and some change, maybe. Okay. Is that what you're bringing in? $4,800. Income-wise, that's what you're bringing in?

Income-wise, I'm bringing in maybe about $6,000. Okay, so $6,000. Okay. And then do you guys have debt? Well, you know, I got my Jeep, and my old lady has her van. Is that on payments? I wish it wasn't, but it is. Yeah, that's fine.

How much do you guys owe on yours? Well, my Jeep, I got maybe $8,000 left, and on her van, we just had to get. So it's around $22,000. Okay. You said you just got it? Yeah, we just got it maybe about a week ago. How much are your car payments on both of those? Well, that's where it's eating me.

Yeah, I bet. Because on my Jeep, I'm paying about $4,000. On her van, I'm paying around $6,000. Ooh, I bet you. Yeah, it's $1,000. Okay, what else? So you got the Jeep, the van. What else do you have?

Are there credit cards? Do you have any other loans? No, we don't have loans. I mean, we got groceries and we got rent. Okay, so that's fine. Those are fixed expenses on your budget, but do you have any other debt, which is a lump sum of money that you owe?

I mean, maybe when I was younger. I'll just keep it easy. I'd probably say maybe about $10,000, maybe. What would it be? In credit cards? No, it'd probably be a little bit of hospital and maybe miscellaneous. I'm sorry. I'm kind of lost for words.

Brandon, how old are your kids? I got a 10-year-old. I got a 6-year-old. And I got one about to be 2-year-old. Okay, perfect. Okay, so here's the thing. I think you're having a hard time building wealth because your biggest wealth building tool is your income. And right now, a thousand dollars of your income

is going, or, and maybe a little bit more is going towards your debt payments every single month. And it sounds like, I'm not sure, but it sounds like maybe you're trying to do a little of this, a little of that, a little of that over here. and the method that we teach you is going to give you focused intensity on one area at a time for the most part so do you have any money saved that's the problem i don't i can't seem to save a dollar okay so let's go back to the the essentials here i think the first thing here is the budget you told me that out of $6,000 a month, it takes $4,800 to run your household. So that means somewhere along the way, there's $1,200 left if you're doing your budget correct. Right. But you just said you can't find a dollar.

So something about that budget isn't adding up. So let's kind of let Rachel and I give you a quick crash course with the budget yeah because the the thing is with the budget Brandon is it needs to be realistic so you keep saying you know which I get we Jade has kids I have little kids so stuff does come up you know when you're a family and there's multiple people you're keeping afloat um so either you need to redo the budget and say okay realistically we need a kid's line item because stuff is going to come up every month that we have to pay school fees like whatever it may be sports yep that we're going to put in um and then there also may be brandon a you know a time that you and your wife sit down and you say okay we're going to limit this budget

and just because we feel like you know the kids need, and Z. We may tell them no right now. Because your goal is going to be to get out of debt. And so that budget is really, really key. And tightening up that budget is going to be huge. So that's going to automatically probably give you some of that breathing room of that $1,200 that we don't, you know, it kind of just disappears. The next piece of this I would do. Okay. So Rachel's telling you tighten up the budget. Yeah. And you have a lot of car. Yeah. Is that what you're going next? Yeah. You just bought this car for $22,000. It's a $600 payment a month, Brandon.

Sell it. Sell it. Yeah. And we always say not to have anything with wheels and motors that is more than half of your annual income and you guys are right over that i mean you're making 60 yeah and i mean you guys are you're you're close to that you're at 30 i mean like that so you're it's too much you have too much car and i think you're feeling that brandon you're feeling that and so looking to say okay what are our options what can we do that is different um and it's probably going to be selling that van. And yeah, and that's going to take. So let's put this in the timeline.

So the first thing you're doing, what Rachel said, you're getting on your budget. You're getting a realistic budget. You're figuring out what can we cut so that this $1,200 is actually a reality. And it's you and your wife agreeing to that because you need that money. So you can save up a little bit to get out of this car and get into a car that you can afford because no more car no more car payments right so you need at least five six thousand dollars to make this thing happen at least right so we're getting out of this car and then after that it's okay we freed up six hundred dollars we can breathe a little bit and maybe it's you picking up a side hustle your wife she, she's got the two-year-old at home,

but there's, you know, at least it's one at home and not the others. And so what can she do to bring an extra income? And from this point on, it really is you guys deciding how quickly you clean up this mess by deciding how much more money comes in because the ultimate goal is building wealth.

The debt is standing in the way that you clear out the debt and then you get yourself that emergency fund of three to six months saved. Now you're going to feel peace about day-to-day life, right? So if an emergency hits you, you're fine. And now you can actually start building wealth. You can start investing into your 401k if you have it, start investing into a Roth IRA as an option, but we've got to get through baby steps one through three first. Brandon, have you looked into other small businesses in your area and what they're paying for electricians? I just wonder, even if you switch out of the union, if you could find a better gig that pays more. Well, I mean, I did solar for seven years.

And, you know, I've done, I did solar for seven years and, you know, I, I, I have a little LLC with that, but, um, uh, I mean, and realistically until I hit a journeyman's card, you know, I'm not really, there's really nothing out there that's maybe paying more. I mean, it may be a dollar, it may be $2, but it's nothing like jumping up another ten to twelve thousand dollars okay yeah yeah because i was just curious if um you know sometimes in the private sector there's um you know other opportunities uh so i just didn't know if you had explored that because because i think the goal to brandon is uh you know you guys make sixty thousand and yes there's a level of intensity during baby steps one through three to kind of get you out of this hole so there will be you know

extra work here or there all that but i think the goal is eventually to be able to live off of your income comfortably and enjoy it be able to put some money aside for retirement you know do some of these things to enjoy your life and so if that is not coming to fruition then shift yeah then that's where a bigger conversation is um and you guys are renting right now right so even home ownership um to be in the picture eventually which i know can probably feels very overwhelming right now to think about but um but to be able to get there but hey um brandon i want you to hold on the line because christian's gonna pick up and i want to gift you guys financial peace university you and your, this is our nine lesson course and go through this. And, and again, it runs the gamut, everything from the budget to getting

out of debt, all of it. And then, you know what, and hold on the line too. And Christian, we'll throw in some of Ken Coleman's stuff. He has a great career assessments that would just be interesting, Brandon. And again, being an electrician, making 60 grand, that's fabulous work and wonderful. But I think we, I think people do get to a reality of, okay, how do I sustain my life? And if you can ever make more, that's going to help it without completely shifting your lifestyle. So just out of curiosity, maybe dig into some of that too and see if that kind of triggers anything for you. So thanks for the call, Brandon. You guys got this.

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Up next, we have Vanessa in Seattle. Hey, Vanessa. Welcome to the show. Hey, thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. Okay, so I'm just going to dive right in. So I'm a 54 year old woman. I live in the Seattle area.

Um, I am not working right now. I'm at the tail end of a bankruptcy. I was married and I got, I, there was just too much debt. I couldn't, there was no way that I could get out of that. So, um, I did file bankruptcy. It just discharged. And, um, so there's that having, you know, just starting over with credit. I, uh, I am not going to have a place to live as

of December, the end of December, the owners of the home that I've been living in have decided to sell. Uh, it's, and it's been an absolute shock because my ex-husband completely remodeled the inside and I thought for sure, you know, I'd have some time here. Oh, wow. Gosh, you've had a lot, Vanessa. I have a lot going on in my, yes, absolutely. Yes, I'm so sorry. Divorce and the bankruptcy and a living situation

that's up in the air, that's hard. And you said your ex-husband remodeled the inside of the rental house? He did, of a rental, yeah. When y'all were living there together? We were for four months, and then he moved out. It was an abusive marriage, so it took me a long time to get out of that, but I did. I'm so proud of you.

Yeah, it's extremely brave. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. So I was making anywhere between $15,000 and $18,000 with an eBay business while I was married. He was the primary, you know, he had the job, he was bringing in very good money, but we were renting in the previous house we were at for nine years. So this is my third marriage. I just want to say that if, if I knew that I was going to be here, I would already have a house, but it just didn't work out that way. So. Okay. So what are you doing right now, Vanessa, for, um, how are you paying your rent right now?

How are you paying for expenses? Well, I was living off my savings and then on top of everything, I lost my daughter. It was very sudden. She died. She was 26. I'm sorry. I know there's so much going on. So that just killed me. I mean, it's so hard, so horrible, you know, and there's nothing like losing a child. It's horrible. I can't even imagine. So it's been hard, you know, to work, um, to concentrate on eBay, to do anything really. I mean, it just completely was debilitated and just from everything. So did you get anything out of the divorce? I did. And I've been living on that for the last three years. Um, uh, let's

see. So I was receiving maintenance and then I, I had about 50,000 saved. So what's that down to now? It's down to zero. However, there is some good news. I just inherited $30,000. Okay. So I need to know what to do with my $30,000. I don't have any debt other than the car payment. I have a car payment that's $300 a month. And how much do you owe on the car? What's the total amount you owe on the car? I owe about $18,000 on that. Okay. So $18,000 to $20,000. It might be about $20,000 with the payoff. Fine. Okay. But if I take that, yeah. Let us give you some help here. And real quick, will you just give me a quick timeline? These are big, these are big things that have happened. Will you, will you just kind of walk me through really quickly, really quickly when the divorce happened,

the loss of your daughter and the bankruptcy? When, when, when did all this play out? Okay. So the bankruptcy was, it just discharged. So that was 90 days. It's been about four months total with that. Losing my daughter happened, it was last January. So it's been a year and a half. Okay. Okay. And my divorce, we separated after we moved into this home, which was November of 2021. So he moved out in April of 2022.

Okay. of 2021 so he moved out in April of 2022 okay so since then I have been living off of what I have what I got what I received from that that's good I just want to know because I mean these are like three very traumatic things that have occurred so I just didn't know how timeline wise um because I think for you Vanessa this um I mean you're you're the biggest glaring light that I see is the income side. Because as you experience with the $50,000, if you continue to live on savings and you're not, you know, replacing that with other income, it eventually dwindles. And that's what you've experienced. And so making sure that this $30,000 does not dwindle. And the only way to really do that is to be able to be bringing in some income, which I know is.

Sorry. No, you're good. Go ahead. Okay. So I've been working on my master's degree. I was busy with that in art history. Now, what I'm going to do with that, I have no idea. I mean, people ask me, what are you going to do?

Art history, yeah, because I love, I just love it. I love architecture, art. What did you plan to do with it when you got it? Yeah, that and how are you paying for it? I don't know. Maybe teach. I was paying for my education as I went. So I still have some.

I have some loans, I think. I'm not sure exactly. Yeah, I have students. I wasn't able to file. You can't file on those. No, you can't. You're not able to. Okay, so let's get.

We got to get organized and we got to get a game plan going forward. Right now is not the time to keep taking those classes because you can't afford to pay for them. And you still have some existing student loan debt. It sounds like you've got the $18,000 for this car. What I believe your homework should be, and I think Rachel would probably agree, is first things first is you got to get a job. Yeah, and this is, you know, this is Target, Vanessa.

I mean, this is making $18,000 an hour at Walmart. I mean, this is truly doing what you can because the decisions so far are not panning out in reality for you right an art history degree well I'm going to go get a master's but I don't know what I want to do with it right so I want to make sure the ROI on your time is realistic and and so being able just to get something in I think it'll be good for you. I think there's going to be a level of dignity and confidence of you going and earning your own money. That's going to be huge. So for the time being, I mean, it would be tomorrow I would be out and just retail, whatever you can just to be getting an income in. And then eventually figuring out what does Vanessa want to do and what can Vanessa do to support herself and be able to you know advance throughout

life you know you're you're in your 50s and there's you know there's still a great yeah a great life to live and I want you to be able to do that but the steps would be number one finding a job tomorrow any job and I would be I would be working like crazy I think my goal would be not to touch the 30,000 that would be the goal and I think selling the car is probably the car is big because you don't need an $18,000 car Vanessa you need a $6,000 car and then third I'd say you know that you know that the time is coming where you won't be living in this house anymore so let's start doing research on a place that we can live that's less expensive possibly right a studio apartment maybe just tiny I mean anything again it's going to be uncomfortable for a little bit but i think making some of these wiser more conservative decisions

is going to give you some bandwidth and some margin you need it yes the car might be a little bit tricky and the reason is because i kept that through the bankruptcy and then just negotiated the interest rate so if i let go, then it's going to hit my credit, which I want squeaky clean from here forward. Possibly. Yeah, I probably could sell it. That's what we're talking about. We're talking about you looking on Kelley Blue Book and seeing what it's worth and then you selling it and buying something cheaper in cash, not a payment. Yep, that's right. Okay, Vanessa, that's a lot. Why don't you hang on the line? Christian will pick up and we'll get you with a Ramsey coach to help you. Well, if you're listening on radio,

keep on listening. But if you are on YouTube or podcast, make sure to go download the Ramsey Show app to get the third hour there. Thanks to everyone in the booth. Thank you, Jade Warshaw. And we will see you soon, America. Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then

right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.