The Ramsey Show - Today's Lesson: Stop Taking Out Loans

Episode Date: July 25, 2024

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Live from Nashville, Tennessee, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw, and we are talking about your relationships, your money, your retirement, building wealth, the work that you do that you may or may not love. We're talking about everything. If you want to be on this show, give us a buzz at 888-825-5225. It's 888-825-5225. Let's go out to the home of Alice in Chains in the Great Sound Gardenarden, Seattle, Washington, and talk to Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike. What's up, Mike?

How you doing, guys? We're good. What's up with you? All right, so I'll try to keep it real brief. So I make really good money out here out in Washington, but super, super unhappy. I, with the union, got good pension, benefits, and all that stuff, but super unhappy.

So is my wife. She homeschools because the schools suck out here and she wants to actually move out to Tennessee, not sure what area, but I know I'll make less money. And I'm wondering if that's the right move to make me happy, even though I'll make less money. How much is your happiness worth? You tell me. What's the dollar amount? Well, I currently make about $42 an hour out here. And so you overtime, a double time, that's really good money.

But I'm stuck in two hours of traffic every single day, only driving 38 miles to home. The politics suck. The schools suck. There's nothing to do out here. So, dude, go back to my original question. You give me a dollar amount, dude. Because let's be honest.

For a million dollars, not. I mean, objectively, there's not a lot I won't do. But, like, for $20, there's a lot I won't do. So you tell me. What's your number? Well, I mean, if I could make $30 an hour out there, I'd be happy because I know the cost of living is cheaper out there. Well, that you're probably wrong on.

But listen. I don't know. I've never been out there yet. Okay. Go ahead. No, you go, John. Bro, get on a plane and come over here. Well, actually, we are in February or March.

It's too long. It's too long. Because here's why. You've already broken up with your girlfriend that is where you live. No, no, no, no, no, no. No. No, no, no, no.

I know. I'm making a metaphor. Okay? Oh, oh, oh. Pretend you're dating where you live. You've already broken up with her. She just doesn't know yet.

You hate there. And there is no price to pay for a husband and a father who hates his life. Because his kids absorb that, his spouse absorbs that, and there's not a dollar amount for that. Leave. Leave. The question is twofold.

Number one, get on a plane, get on a Southwest flight, you and your wife, and come spend a weekend in Tennessee. It will confirm what you're thinking. It's amazing here. And do some research on the interwebs on how much all of this costs and what, like, look for jobs. You're just sitting at home stewing and stewing and stewing. Work on the things you can actually control and beware because the day you land here and you sign on the dotted line and you buy a home and you start your new job, you're going to walk by your rear view mirror and realize that you came with you. And so if you're a person who's just kind of miserable and kind of hates everything, you're going to be kind of miserable and hate everything here. If you're actually a,

like a guy who's oriented towards positivity, you love your family, you love your kids, and you have some values that you want to be surrounded by, and you're just in a, in a sick system that, yeah, man, you're going to be surrounded by, and you're just in a sick system, then yeah, man, you're going to be unleashed out here. Yeah, and that's what I want because I'm truly not happy out here, but I do love the money. How'd you end up in Seattle? Where were you before Seattle, and how'd you end up there? I was in Arizona, and my daughter from my ex was out here, and so we moved out here because I could make better money,

and I've just been stuck here because of the money. God, dude, hey, did you grow up with not very much? Yeah, kind of. Tell me about how'd you grow up. I grew up in a crappy family. I had to start, God. So I joined the military right after i graduated high school and just been working job to job to job making low-end money and now that i'm making really

good money it's really hard for me to just let go of that it's hard because you you attach your worth to a dollar amount because since you were a little kid that's been your ticket out and what you've got in the meantime is a family who loves you and you haven't internalized it that's worth way more than a dollar per hour amount very true but also have to pick but i still got bills i mean granted we can sell our house and then we are coming out there in february or march that's too long you're don't make your kids to do it though right now. Bro, don't make your kids have an angry, frustrated dad for six more months. I mean, it's summertime. They're able to do certain things during the summer and keep them busy.

So what I'm doing is I'm cashing out my vacation. So I'm not going to take vacation at all this year. I'm cashing it all out, using that money to provide for the flight. Okay, Mike, why did you call us? You already know what you're going to do. Why did you call us? I just want to know if it's the right thing to do financially, or am I putting a mental block in it to stay here to provide

or go out there to be? I think your arms are wrapped around the dollar per hour amount you make like it's a snuggie like it's a pacifier and a blanket and that that's what my wife says that's the only thing that you look in the mirror and say i have value and worth and you have a wife and kids looking at you saying we love you and you're like yeah y'all shut up i make 42 bucks an hour and until you cross that great divide bro i don't even know how much money you i don't even know how much debt you have i don't know what you know we'll get to that but none of that matters because you don't think you're worth a damn other than that dollar amount and i can't convince you of that on a 10-minute

phone call oh i know i agree i agree but that's your cancer right now and until you detach from that you're going to live in a house where you hate driving to work you hate the job you do you hate driving home from work you hate where your wife and kids live but god bless us we make 42 bucks an hour that's madness it's insane i know i know it's an illness yeah yeah i mean plus our house needs so much work and god shut up with all that it doesn't matter doesn't matter i know all right jade i'm i'm i'm be less than nice, and I like Seattle, so go ahead. You know what? I don't know why. My mind is going on another train right now,

and I think, I don't know if this message is really for you or for the folks listening because you called in, but I think sometimes we really get, we cling to the best scenario that we've ever had, thinking nothing like this will ever come along again and in this case maybe it's a money or a paycheck and I think sometimes it's like listen you gotta you gotta there's more where that came from do you know what I'm saying like there's more where that opportunity came from and I'm gonna just say it because I feel like it's it's in me to say it

like gifts come from God like every good and perfect gift comes from God. So if you had this opportunity that was there before you, it's because it came from God, whether you believe in him or not. And that means there's more where that came from. And if you hold on to something so tight and don't believe that there's more where that came from, you lose track of really what the source of that is.

And Seattle wasn't the opportunity. Arizona wasn't the opportunity. God provided the opportunity. And so wherever you go there's opportunity and so i just really want to let you know that i don't know why i know usually i'm here talking about dollars and cents but that's what i feel like i'm supposed to tell you so that's what i'm going to tell you and i feel like i'm supposed to follow that up with how you like them apples mike no i know i agree i agree you don't agree you don't agree because as soon as you get off the phone you're gonna're going to put your last pay stub and you're going to go, oh, $42 an hour. Aren't we beautiful?

You can make it again and you can make more. What if you made $52 an hour out here? The what now? What if you made $52? Yo, what? What? What? What?

What if you made $50 an hour out here? Oh, I would love to. It's just my job. If I were to transfer, I know my pay would be cut in half. I've already looked into it. Granted, I could do other things. Okay, listen, listen. Here's your choice. Choose misery or choose joy. That's your choice. Choose misery or choose joy. Ta-da. That's your choice, brother. And you got a wife and kids sitting in the wings waiting on you to make the call. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. You know my philosophy on planning and preparing. Being proactive is always

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EveryDollar, the app in the app store every dollar the app in the app store or google play today all right let's roll out to roll out to lexington kentucky and talk to sweet caroline what's up caroline hi close carolyn oh my bad so close not sweet carolyn not sweet what's up We had a very bad situation last year. We had just moved to Kentucky. My husband and I were out walking on our property with our little eight-pound puppy. Our dog was attacked like nine feet away from us by the Belgian Malinois next door. We had to deal with...

Wait, hold on. The Belgian what? Malinois. Malinois. Is that like a big dog? I only know Belgian w on. Is it a Belgian what? Malinois. Malinois. Is that like a big dog? I only know of Belgian waffles. Yeah, what is that? It's a police dog that the neighbor next door had.

Oh, wow. Okay, so it's a big, giant dog. It's a very big dog, and he got over the fence and attacked our pet, our boy. Four days later, he died. But it was $9,000 in veterinarian bills. Yeah, it's awful. In fact, there are no words to describe it.

The neighbor paid all but $1,500 because we were, well, we felt sorry for him. So he paid all but $1,500 of the vet bill, which was good. But that was, as you can see, it was extremely expensive, as well as being the worst thing that ever happened. Now, my husband is saying that we need pet insurance in case, you know, God forbid something like that happen again. The neighbor got rid of the dog, by the way. But we didn't know things like this could happen having them from a condo in California. Well, the insurance is $30 per month per dog. And we lived on a fixed income now.

And we're halfway. He wants to get the insurance. And I'm thinking we ought to just save up some money. How many dogs do you have? And we currently have two other puppy dogs. Okay. And you told me, I just want to make sure I'm clear. You said out of the 9,000 of vet bills, he paid all but 1,500? Yes. Okay. Hey, I hate that you lost

your pet. That really does. That sucks. I can't imagine coming home and knowing that something like that happened to my dog. So for the money side of it, here's what my brain thinks of. This is something that happened. it was a random occasion you went your whole life probably with pets and nothing like this ever happened so I wouldn't let this one um terrible thing happening inform how you do things going forward thinking this could happen again um and then so I would not do the insurance but I would say okay what would happen if I just put $30 aside per pet each month and just I always had an emergency fund for my pets? What would that look like?

That would be about $700 that we would have to save per year. Now, that's a great amount of savings, but we are living on a fixed income where even that, whether I spend it on saving it or pet insurance, it's still money out of our, I guess what I'm saying is the fixed income part doesn't matter. You're either saving the $30 or you're not. Or the deeper question is you can't afford this.

I mean, even if we said, yeah, go get pet insurance, y'all can't afford it. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. But he's thinking anything to avoid,

um, to be prepared actually, um, to be prepared for something happening. Do you guys have any money saved? We have about $13,000 in the three to six months. Do you not feel like if something, you know, like I said, something bizarre, like what took place happens, something that you're completely not expecting, like a dog attacking your dog. Do you not feel like that what kind of falls under the umbrella of an unforeseen emergency? I guess I'm just trying to figure out why what what you have in place is not enough. Well, I guess we haven't figured that that could have been used for an emergency like that of course that would wipe it out if something god forbid happened again yeah but you're living in you're living you're living in a state of what ifs and i do feel like if i think there's two

things that you can have financially in place that will help you and then i do want to turn it over to john because i think for you having a sinking fund that's always there for pet maintenance whether it be you know their yearly checkup or things like that whatever you take them to the vet having a sinking fund there for that that's not part of your emergency fund is a good thing probably for you to got for you guys to have and maybe that's you just putting aside like I said 30 bucks a month or and not or and you have your emergency fund for the things that are truly emergencies that pop up. And maybe you say, you and your husband, maybe you decide, hey, when it comes to pets, this is what we're willing to spend and this is where the buck stops. Because there is something about that that you don't want to put your own well-being at risk for the risk of a pet.

Well, okay. Here's the other side of it, or the extended side. I just had one of my professors and mentors, Andy Young, Dr. Andy Young was on my show this morning, and he was just here in town. He's actually the guy that gave me the language, facts are your friends when you're dealing with trauma. He's the guy who trained me on crisis intervention okay and so under that guys i want to walk through like we know that when you experience a big nasty messy trauma like you experienced it was terrifying it was scary it was bloody it was a mess and then there's a couple days of touch and go and then your sweet dog passed away okay we know that happened but if we back all the way out financially speaking this is just facts are your friends underneath the trauma what's reality reality

is there's a nine thousand dollar bill that the person who who was downstream no one's responsible for that kind of freak accident, but he paid for it. So you guys are out $1,500. The reality is you're not in a position where you've got an extra $60 a month. The reality is I've grown up with dogs my whole life. Jade's grown up with pet dogs. Everyone I know has grown up with pet dogs.

And I've lived in the country. I've lived in the city. I've lived in the suburbs. I've never heard of this happening like this so of course you know it's one of those things you really can't plan for who would have known well exactly but that's when that's when these what i would call very very fringe programs will swoop in it's the same as if you buy a lamp at best buy me like you want the nine dollar insurance plan it's like no i don't want that like so just in case it's a just in case and you're in a in a moment where it's things are sensitive and you still have that picture of what happened in that experience and

that feeling and so i don't ever want to feel like that again so i'm going to make i'm going to make purchases that don't make financial sense that actually don't make financial sense, that actually don't make realistic sense, because the final facts are your friends is you have 13,000 bucks in the account. God forbid something else happened that costs $9,000 and you were totally on the hook for it. You can write that check tomorrow. And so what we're telling you is I want you to begin to uncouple the feeling of what happened then that's happening in the present that's what trauma is it's when your body reimagines in the present re-experiences in the present something that happened in the past what you went through was was hell on earth it was hard

it was scary it probably will never ever happen again and we're going to grieve it we're going to be sad and then we're going to go make the next right move the next right move is we're going to grieve it we're going to be sad and then we're going to go make the next right move the next right move is we're going to love our little dogs i i i'm i'm stunned by your neighbor sounds like he was or she was horrified paid 7500 got rid of the dog right like went through a lot um to do the right thing after an awful accident so it sounds like everything in the world that could have happened after this thing happened in your favor. It's just hard to see it because of the trauma you went through,

the experience you went through. And so what we're telling you is the next right move is not just to spend, just throw money at, I want to feel like I'm doing something so that I don't feel bad again because I'm telling you, if, God forbid, this does happen again, you're going to feel like I'm doing something so that I don't feel bad again because I'm telling you if God forbid this does happen again you're going to feel bad too and so let's don't try to mitigate our feelings of what's going to happen in the future let's look at data and if insurance life insurance car insurance home insurance that's math we need that this is just kind of out there on the fringe and all that's buffered by the fact that you have an emergency fund already

I think you and your husband go sit down and I want you to write this dog a letter and tell your dog how much you miss it. I know people who don't have dogs will roll in their eyes right now. And I just said that only all to write that dog a letter and let that dog go run and play in doggy heaven, wherever that dog happens to be right now. And then let's start looking at the math and looking at the real world that we have right in front of us. We'll be right back.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills? How am I going to eat next week? Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. It's just, it is, it's terrible.

So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies.

It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You've got to say it out loud, and you've got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of a stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282.

Or go to Zander.com. 888-825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show. Let's go out to Cleveland, Ohio and talk to Tyler. What's up, Tyler? Good afternoon. How are you today? Outstanding, brother. What's up? So a bit of a predicament I'm in. I currently have four kind of high interest loans that I've been making monthly payments on with an additional loan that was sent to collections for $20,000, an unsecured loan. I recently negotiated with the debt collectors to get a reduced payment of $12,000, which I was fortunately able to come up with through some very caring family and selling off a few personal items. And in my research, watching your guys' show and everything and reading online, it's usually suggested to pay

off the active debt first. I'm curious what your opinion would be in this scenario. I've already got them to agree to the lower amount. Should I use that $12,000 to just pay it off and be done with it? Or should I dump that into my active loans, which would free up a significant amount of cash in my monthly budget? So to make sure I understand, you have these four loans. You were able to secure a deal on one of them? Sorry, I apologize. Five loans, one of them is in collection, the other four are active. Okay. The one that's in collection, I was able to

negotiate a deal on. Okay. Yeah, the one that's in collections, you need to clear that one up, especially since you were able to secure a deal. The only thing that I would tell you is make sure you get it in writing first. Don't pay the payment until you get them to either email you or snail mail you a copy of what will happen when you pay the twelve thousand dollars the balance will become zero like make sure it's very detailed what the deal is um and don't pay the money until you get that have you asked for that so i did already get it in writer in email from them, from the debt collector. Over the phone, they had specified that I asked them how it would be reported back to the credit agencies and stated that it would be reported as paid in full.

Okay, good. However, in the written deal, I see that it says if I pay the $12,000 on or before the 31st, it will be accepted as full and final settlement of the account. Now, that doesn't sound quite like paid in full to me. I think the second one's better, full and final settlement of the account. That means it's over. The word settlement just kind of struck as this was settled for a lower amount, which I don't really want on my report if I can. But it was settled for a lower amount and it's going't really want on my report if I can. But it was settled for a lower amount, and it's going to be, they're reporting it that way, so that is the way it is, unfortunately.

I just want to make sure. Yeah. Not a problem. Two more things I want to add to that real quick. You got a second? Yeah, sure. Go ahead. Do not, do not, do not, do not let them do an automatic draft

or automatic withdrawal of this money. Okay. Now, I was thinking about doing a wire transfer. I got the information from them. Would paying through their online portal be advised, or don't do that either? I'm just telling you what I would do in my house, okay? I would go to my bank, and I would open up a secondary account. Okay. And you can open an account underneath your main account, right?

Right. And I'd open an account and I would move that money into that account and I would give that number and then zero it out. Okay. Because what I don't want them to do is have any path back to my original checking account in any way, shape, form, or fashion. Okay. The second thing is with,

with, with that secondary account that you say to open up, um, zero it out. And they're like, once they take that $12,000, close that account. Um, should I, cause I know that automatic draft, like preauthorized drafts, um, that are done, are done through like lenders and stuff like that, they can set it for an amount and there's not really anything I can do to stop it. And it can potentially overdraft an account. Would you suggest putting on or removing the overdraft protection so they can't, you know, say they said they'll do 12,000, but then they try to charge, you know, 15, No, you will use their online portal and you'll put the dollar amount in there.

We're not doing a draft. Oh, I got you. I understand. Yeah, never open the door and say you go in there and get what you said you were going to get because they're going to get more. Gotcha. The second thing is can we learn a lesson here?

You stop taking out loans. Yes. And so the downstream effect of that is, who cares what's on your credit report? All your credit report is, it's a register for how your relationships have been with debt. And at some point, you've got to decide, I'm done. So I don't care what five ex-girlfriends before said about you you're married now who cares gotcha understood so i don't care what somebody's putting on my credit report we're done dancing with debt and so i'm gonna get these other four things paid off asap and then i'm gonna be finished borrowing money so put it put whatever

you want on there awesome man thank man. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate the advice. All right, brother. Appreciate your call, man. Let's go out to Toledo, Ohio. Holy Toledo. And talk to Carly. Hey, Carly, what's up?

Hey, how are you? Could not be better. What's up? So I was looking into investment streams because I always wanted to retire when I was 50 or younger than 59, like the normal retirement rate. And so I was reaching out to like financial advisors and I came across one person and they said to get an index universal life insurance where I can pull against like when I'm 50. And it like almost seems too good to be true. How old are you? I'm 21. Okay. I really love the fact that at 21, you're thinking about ways to

build wealth and thinking about just, I mean, thinking about when you're 50, when I was 21, I was not thinking about the day that I would turn 50. So I really, I applaud you on that. I think that shows that you're just a mature person and you want to do what's right with your money, which is great. I think also what you're learning here is that you have instincts. And when your instincts tell you that something's not right or too good to be true, that's generally the case. And so I would agree with the way you feel. Yeah, this is too good to be true. And I would run, run, run, run, run, run, run away baby from this, like in the words of Bruno Mars.

So what I would do is tell me a little bit more about your financial situation and then I can kind of craft what I think you should do. So I have a 401k and a Roth IRA that my old job used to pay into and now I'm just depositing into it now like about $100 a month. It's about like up to like $10,000 combined. And then my current job gave me a pension that I pay 10%. They pay 14% and I could touch that when I'm 55. So I was wanting something to bridge that like five year gap so I can touch that when I'm 55. So I was wanting something to bridge that five-year gap so I can retire earlier. Okay, so do you have any debt?

I own a house, so that's the only debt I have. Okay. Who are you? A 21-year-old with all these retirement accounts who owns their own house, who doesn't owe any extra money? You're amazing. I love Dave Ramsey. I've been listening to him forever so what percentage of your income total are you investing at this point um probably less than probably at like 15 about 15 okay

and i also want to know do you have any other non-retirement savings? Like, do you have three to six months of expenses liquid? Yeah, I have an emergency fund and like a high yield savings account that I control. Listen, very good. Very good. I want to know who your parents are. This is excellent. Okay. Very good. So here's what I would tell you. I like what your goal is. I like that you're thinking about the fact that you need a bridge into retirement. Again, you're you're you're on the there which i don't you know i don't know what your plans are i mean you're 21 at some point you're probably going to sell that house you'll meet somebody that you love and you know but that would be my next move is to start paying that debt down and then when you're done with that you can go to the moon like you can invest as much as you

want i'd probably finish up uh if you're not already maxing those 401ks and those Roth IRAs and those pensions. I'd max that. Then if you can move into something just like a brokerage account, like you said, for a great bridge, just a normal brokerage account, you can invest four ways. Growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international. You can do that in mutual funds. And that's what I would do if I were in your shoes. Dave Ramsey says get a life insurance policy. That's not like the full life insurance policy. You need term term life is what you need. And it's for

people who depend on your income. That's what that's the purpose of having life insurance. It's to replace income for people who depend on it. And you can find that at Xander insurance, by the way. There we go. This is is the Ramsey Show we'll be right back this show is sponsored by BetterHelp this is the season for Halloween it's October we're wearing costumes and we're wearing masks so if you haven't started planning your costume yet

get on it and while you're thinking about it I want you to be honest a lot of us hide ourselves we hide our true selves behind costumes and masks all the time. We do this at work. We do this around our friends. We do this around our families.

We even do this when we look at ourselves in the mirror. I know because I've been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding behind masks and costumes all the time, if you find yourself hiding from masks and costumes all the time, if you find yourself hiding from your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can be honest, where you can talk to somebody else and reflect and learn, and you can accept all the parts of yourself over time

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with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash D'Loni to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash D'Loni. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Today's question from Madison in Washington. It's the Ramsey Show question of the day.

I'll read it here, Jade. Sorry, I made that intro kind of weird. It was a little weird. I got you, though. Thank you. All right, you read it. Several years ago,

my husband was accepted into an out-of-state college program. We had just had a baby, so I had to continue working to support us, even though my goal in life was to stay at home and be a stay-at-home mom to raise our kids.

Last year, he failed all of the board exams, and now I'm left feeling I gave up everything for nothing. I worked so hard to put him through school, and he didn't take it serious enough to pass. I lost time with my two kids when they were babies, and I resent that he was able to do what he wanted to do while I put him through school how do I get over it I love him and he is the best father to my kids but it just eats at me I uh I have thoughts what do you say mama you know here's the thing you had to have gone into this knowing that there's always more options than what you're hoping will happen that's my first thought my first thought is you say okay of course yes the idea is you'll work even though you didn't really want to it'll help pay for school he'll go to

school the hope is that he'll pass the boards and everything will go swimmingly but you also have to plan and mentally have a space for if that doesn't happen and I think that's probably where things started going awry is there was only one path and that was the way and that's what's going to make it all worth it and when that didn't happen I think that was really a big blow um I want to know I wish I could ask questions because I want to know more about the, he didn't take it seriously enough to pass. And I want to know, is there another, like, can you keep going? Like, this is not, this is not the end of the, it doesn't have to be the end of the road. So there's more to the story. I don't know it, John. Anytime you start keeping score in a relationship, especially in a marriage, it's over. It's over. Well, you got to do this.

So I get to do this and I get to do this this it is a group decision that we all make together that someone's going to school it's a group decision that we're going to move it's a group decision that i'm going to quit this job and take this new job and that means your role at home is going to shift and when it doesn't go your way or when it doesn't work out like we planned then we have to be adults and plan for the next thing we can't go back and be like well you said you can't live like that yeah it's a choice to be miserable in the present can i bring something else up i might be wrong and you tell me because this is your area um she said yes maybe she should have said no yeah said you haven't proven that you're like you've never been a good student i've known you forever you don't like school you don't and i've had some

wild hair adventures that my wife has said my vote is not a good idea yeah right yeah and we don't say like no you can't that's not how we talk to each other but i trust her wisdom and i powdered about it for a few days and then i look up and she was right so i kind of wonder then this is just me because i'm you know when you guys call in or write and i'm filtering things through real time what if this happened in my life i think part of the resentment could be and i'm just i'm i'm throwing a long shot here just based on jade it might be me really feeling like I'm mad at myself because I know I should have said no, but I said yes.

And it's easier for me to be resentful of him than to be mad at my own self. That's me. All day. And it's easier to blame somebody for the choice that I made or I didn't speak up. Or maybe this isn't a safe relationship

and she felt like she couldn't speak up. That's also true. But here we are two years later, three later however many years later he failed the boards my first question is can you go back and take can you go back and take him um second is we all agreed on this yeah we agreed and you don't just not take it seriously at the very end you don't take it seriously throughout right so there were some conversations that weren't said and weren't had and i think you might be into something i will say this till i'm blue in the face in marriage especially secrets will destroy your marriage and if you keep them they'll destroy you yeah and so if something is quote-unquote eating at you you have to have the courage to

put it on the table and i want you to put it on the table. And I want you to put it on the table, Madison, with I language. Anytime you start a conversation, a hard conversation with the person you're married to, and you start with a finger pointing, you say, you, you didn't take this seriously. You cost me two years of my life with my babies or whatever. He's going to wall up because he has to go to war. Now he's being attacked yeah if you sit down and say i'm struggling with regret and we're struggling with resentment i didn't speak up and now here we are two years later we are in the hole we left our families left our friends i missed time with the babies and i'm not doing good this whole thing's eating at me that's an invitation yeah and that's the way you got to have that conversation but if you just sit there and let it

eat at you for things that happened in the past, you are affirmatively choosing to burn your current relationship to the ground. So is this a point, John, where, you know, I hear you say all the time guilt over resentment. Like, should she have felt guilty for saying, no, I don't want to do that. I don't want to sacrifice this time with the kids. And I'd rather feel guilty for, quote, you know, air quotes, not letting you do your dream than me be resentful of missing that time and it not happening speak up speak everybody's gotta speak up there's just i could go on this letter i could go on about all day because there's a lot going on here the fact that

what glaringly is obvious to me that i put him through school that that hurt me i was like because he's probably thinking i missed out on x y and z because i was in classes in school i missed out on time with my kids because i was in school day and night yeah and by the way for almost all of these type of situations the question how do i get over it starts with i'm gonna choose to move on and you she won't make that choice to move on can i highlight something else yeah she feels powerful right now he failed she feels powerful and it's good it feels good just to sit in it i want to highlight something else in the comments might badger me for this it's okay so whenever somebody says this is wrong

this is wrong this is wrong this is wrong this is wrong but he's such a great father to my kids shut up shut up it makes me there's something there that i'm like, it just, for me, it's a little bit of a flag as to, yeah, but you're not saying anything that he is to you. Yeah. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Yeah. Just throwing that out there. Yeah.

Seat council. Seat council. Let's go out to Fort Lauderdale and talk to Eddie. What's up, Eddie? Good afternoon, guys. Thank you for taking my call. You got it to Eddie. What's up, Eddie? Good afternoon, guys. Thank you for taking my call. You got it, man. What's up? So, I've done the

Ramsey-ish. I'm planning to retire in December. And my next gig is really good. I have $50,000 worth of credit card. I'm planning to pay off at least $20,000 of it and a balance of $30,000.

I have $1.1 in my nest egg. Do you think it's wise just to take out that $30,000 from my 401k, pay it off, and get rid of it. And that's it. That's my only debt. My house is paid off. It's worth close to $800. I have no more debt, no nothing. And that's it. Hey, good job. How old are you? Yeah, I'm 60 right now. Okay, very good. I love that you've been diligent. You've paid off the house. You've got $1.1 million.

Tell me a little bit more. Where did this credit card debt come from? And are you done with credit cards? I'm done with credit cards. Are you? Yeah, well, it doesn't sound like it. Well, I'm a very generous guy. So when I go out with my kids and all that stuff, I got guys.

Don't worry. I'm a good dude. So I'm that guy. I'm that guy. So lately, my wife has found me. She said, no, you don't need to be that nice. Okay? Well, you're about to be on a fixed income.

You're about to be on a very fixed income here. So I want to make sure that you understand that part of it yeah no i know we have done the numbers me and my wife and uh and this is only my side um she has no debts whatsoever um i know what you guys teach is that it's your debt is our debt but i wanted to fight this because she's really good and I'm really horrible. So I'm like, no, honey, I got this. I have to do this.

Eddie, that ego's going to drown you, brother. That is 100% male ego. Let it ride. Let it ride, homie. It's going to bury you, Eddie. Okay, if I told you you could go to the bank and take out a loan at 30%, would you do that? Oh, hell no.

Okay, that's what borrowing from your 401 is. Hey, before you make this decision, I want you to sit down and work with one of our Ramsey trusted advisors on this because you don't want to make this decision alone. I truly don't trust that you're ready to make this decision alone. You need somebody to look at the numbers. We'll put the information in the show notes for you to make sure you're talking with somebody who can tell you if you're truly ready to retire, considering your numbers and your wife's numbers. Thank you so much for listening to us. This hour is in the books. We'll be back soon, right here on The Ramsey Show.

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Play. If you're listening on a podcast, just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app today. Live from Nashville, Tennessee, this is The Ramsey Show, where we talk about your money, talk about building wealth, we talk about your mental and emotional health, the work you do, all of it. I'm John Delaney, joined by Jade Warshaw, and we are taking your calls live at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Whatever you got going on in your life, give us a buzz.

And if we don't have an answer, we've got an opinion that we will make up on the spot just for you. Let's go out to Fargo, North Dakota. Fargo. So many things I want to say about Fargo, but I'm not going to. Why are you saying it like that? Let's talk to Amanda. What's up, Amanda? Hi.

Am I on or not? You are on in front of all dozen of our listeners. What's up, Amanda? Hi. Am I on or not? You are on in front of all dozen of our listeners. What's up? So we consistently create some financial gains, and then we consistently fall back down into the pit, usually due to our layoffs. And I guess I just don't know how to break this cycle and trying to figure out what to do.

Should we continue in what we've been doing financially? Or should we make some changes? I don't really know what to do. How many layoffs? How many times has this happened? It happens twice a year. So we have a week off in July and two weeks off December, January.

So you know that they're happening every time? Yes. Okay. So that actually makes me... We plan for it. Say again? We plan for it. We have enough money to make it through.

We've reached the point where we no longer have to take out debt in order to survive the layoff. We just... So if you're planning for it, where's the problem? Because I'm tired of falling back down into the same no savings, no... Like, it just doesn't seem to end. So, okay. So then I think we have a situation of we have different definitions. Because for me, if you're planning for it, then there's no loss of gain.

But you're saying that every time it's taking you down to zero. So whatever progress you made, there is no progress. And I'm saying... Yeah, I suppose. Is that right? Because I'm thinking, okay, if I know there's going to be a layoff in july how long is the layoff in july again it's a week one week okay and then how and then i've got a two-month layoff january and december right so i'm thinking okay yeah the last week i'm thinking

throughout the next uh 10 months basically i've got to make sure in 10 months, I'm planning that I have enough for two months. So I'm always kind of like packing it away like a squirrel. And I've got it there waiting. And that's not that's on top of and aside from emergency funds and all the other things that we're doing. It's almost like a sinking fund that you're creating. So what I'm thinking is that the income that you guys do have, it might be tight as it is. Am I right? Yeah, it's pretty tight. Okay. So what's your husband? I've never, what's that? What are you and your husband earning? I have not had a real job in 12 years. Why? I'm a state-owned mom when I homeschool my children. Okay. He makes $45 an hour with zero benefits. No PTO, no sick time, no dental, no vision. What type of work is it?

What type of work is it? I'm a contractor in a factory. He's a contractor. And no benefits. Okay. What, um, tell me more about Fargo, North Dakota. Why are you guys staying there? Uh, that's where the Lord has called us. We, my husband is very involved in the ministry. We're in the process of starting a church and we just were very involved in our home life. Okay. And I don't know, that's why we're there. So you think the Lord calls you to a situation where you're terrified of your ability to feed your family every month?

Well, we're not that bad. I have at least three months' supply of food in my house at all times. It never goes below that. But I don't really feel like it's time to leave the town that we're in. We're in a small town near Fargo. Is he working 40 hours a week? Right now he's doing 50 to catch back up and put more in.

Okay. So before taxes, I'm looking at the numbers before taxes and it's not really that bad what is he actually bringing home because there's no medical there's no two thousand one hundred and sixty eight dollars i believe was today's paycheck yeah but i mean for the month it varies um what was your household income last year i don't really know okay okay i think that's part of the problem that is that is a big part of the problem so the first thing here is if if i ask somebody what they're making and they don't really know then i know they can't be keeping a clear budget and a tight budget because that's just part and parcel to it. I do a month to month

budget. I don't do a year budget. And I wouldn't advise you to. I would advise you to do a month to month. But when you're doing a month to month, you still have an idea of here's about what we bring home. Here's a good month. Here's a bad month. Right. And so I think that you guys could tighten up a little bit on that unless you just were like, Jade, I got nervous. We're on live radio. Like I get that. I am nervous. I i do know the numbers if not in front of my computer i got you he and it it's also hard because he just he just got fired from his job and now he's at a different job so he's got five dollars an hour less pay so i don't really know okay uh so we we've had a big change are you doing an every dollar budget every month I don't know what that so here's how I run my budget my budget is

everything is in a spreadsheet every bill we have is in my spreadsheet I have the total at the bottom and then I have that divided by four because that's how many paychecks we get in a month. It's a week-to-week. And then every single week, I take that divided number. So today was $670 approximately. Okay, I'm going to simplify your life. I'm going to simplify your life. Before we get off this call, I'm going to make sure you get set up with every dollar.

It's going to make it so simple. It's going to be at your fingertips. So much of it is going to do the work for you, which I think could be helpful for a stay-at-home mom who's homeschooling, right? Anything to take something off of your plate. So I think that's going to give you a clearer picture just on a daily basis on what's going on with the numbers. The transactions can automatically come into every dollar and you can see it at a glance, which I think is something that will help. And it will help you come up with how can we create a line item where we're always putting away for those off months so that it's separate from everything else. Yeah. Yeah. I put $300 away every paycheck every paycheck right but we want to make sure what what

you called in and said is even though we're doing that i still feel like we're going backwards and so i want to make sure that that doesn't happen anymore so do you guys on top of the money that you put aside for his off months do you guys have three to six months of expenses no okay that's not even close that's the that's the goal that's what we want to get to because if you have both of if you have three to six months of expenses if you have a another fund set aside for when he's laid off then you're not going to feel that way and by the way if you haven't started paying off debt that's probably going to be a step in this process too so hang on the line we're going to get you set up with financial Peace University because I have a feeling that you're doing a lot of the right

things, but they may be out of order and there may be a way that we can really optimize this for you and really help you get to a point to where you feel like you're only going forward and you're never going backwards. This is The Ramsey Show. Buying your first home is a big deal and sets the stage for your financial success. So work with a mortgage advisor you trust, not just some random website. Churchill Mortgage is Ramsey trusted because they help you avoid hidden traps and expertly guide you through every step. Learn more at churchillmortgage.com.

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but because it takes two seconds to subscribe, like, hit the thumbs up button, leave a five-star review. Whatever you got to do, it's a way for no money. It doesn't cost you anything, but it's a way to help out the show. But more importantly than the show, it's a way to help out your neighbors. Because the more you like and share the show and leave five-star reviews, the more it kicks it up into the into the internets and the algorithms and it puts it in front of your neighbors and it gets them some of the life-changing freedom and peace and hope missing from traditional media these days so please please please like and subscribe the show it's a gift to us but more importantly than us it's a gift to your neighbors thank you so so much for being in our gang let's go to knoxville, Tennessee, to the KNOX and talk to Kat.

Hey, Kat, what's up? Hey. Hi, Jade and John. So I'm trying to figure out how bad or how good my situation actually is. I'm 68. I'm retired. I have a decent fixed income. I have a mortgage but no other debt, and I have a decent fixed income. I have a mortgage, but no other debt.

And I have three months of emergency savings and nothing else. Okay. So you're on the fixed income right now. Is that fixed income enough? It is just enough. I have to type my, I don't have a complete handle on those annual expenses that pop up. Okay. And so I've been a little overspending, but I feel like with what I have, I can get a handle on the annual and, and I can, I can definitely cover my basics. Okay. And the mortgage, how much do you owe on it? Oh, it's 350,000. Okay. And what's it worth? I am committed to keeping this house because of an obligation to a family member.

Okay. And so that's, and plus my whole life, my whole retirement is built around this land here, which has a small farm and income potential. So I just want to say that's not on the chopping block at this point. I'd have to be going into foreclosure before that would go. Listen, that's your choice. And I'm not opposed. I'm not saying I'm opposed to it. I just was wanting to get an idea of your whole picture. I'm assuming it's on a 30-year? A 30-year fixed under 3%.

Okay. And how many years have you been paying? Basically, when do you pay it off? Like two. Oh, gosh. Okay. Yeah. So I'll be quite old. 88. Okay.

So with your fixed, here's where I'm at. With your fixed income, you're, like you said, you're getting a handle on the annual stuff, but it's not allowing you to make extra payments to pay this off any faster no and it's not an order to save money i mean one of my questions is assuming i can make some more money i think i have some ways to bring in a little extra money maybe even a lot and i would do that and if i did that would i invest it or would i pay off this mortgage that doesn't have much of a chance of ever actually impacting my monthly experience? I would invest it because walking through the baby steps, the next baby step for you would be to be investing 15% of your income. And in this

case, probably anything that you get above and beyond right would go towards that so for that reason i would and the the truth is i mean like you said this this most of us plan on living right and so if you plan on living right then you're going to look up 20 years and that money will have grown and it will be money that you can have and pull from so i would do that um i would do that i mean i think for you because you said the house is not on the table, then that's really your only option is to say, I'm going to live a life that's on this fixed income. And I'm going to, the only other thing I might do and I would do is get your emergency fund up to six months of expenses. I would do that. And then past that, I would just

start investing 15% or whatever above and beyond, you know, whatever your side hustle brings you. Okay. And the other part of this question is how bad off am I? Should I be like my, my feet are on fire. I have to make more money. I would, I would, because like you said, you don't have much wiggle room and all it takes is for something to go wrong and you're like scrambling. Like you're in this house. Hopefully everything's good, but you also have a lot of land. And when I see that, I'm like, OK, there's a lot of opportunity for things to require money. And so even though you have six months of expenses saved, if something happens and whittles it down to three months well how long is

it going to take you to bump it back up right you don't want that to take forever so for that reason as much money as you can pack away you know obviously whatever you can you know invest and have compound interest working on your side is a good thing so that's what i would do if, I mean, I can just tell you if the house was on the chopping block, I might suggest downsizing. But in your case, I don't think that it is something that you're going to do, so we won't even talk about it. Tell me about this family obligation. I finished this house with three living spaces and with a promise that my cousin could retire here and save for life.

And I'm not breaking that promise and she's here and, and we both want to be here for life, you know? So it's, uh, I, all the activity and the way I plan to live my retirement is tied up in this land. Is she, um, contributing in any way? She has, but it's not a monthly cash. So the contribution is done. So it does not help me in a monthly way.

Okay. Yeah. I just have to be honest with you. Did you say you were 68? Yeah. Okay. It scares me for you. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It scares me for you. Yeah. Yeah. And it scares me for you simply because you're entering into a space where you don't have the flexibility financially to have the lack of flexibility in all areas of what you want to be true. Right. And so it's, I've got some acreage out here outside of Nashville and I feel like every month something comes up. I got to pay for that.

I didn't expect. Right. And there's something with the well or something with the power or something with something. Right. And man, you get into thinking it's going to be a farm producing and we're going to grow grass we're going to have people it is a thing after a thing after a thing after a thing after a thing and in a million years i wouldn't have expected that but beyond that here's the here's the part that makes me the most nervous um

and we talk about financial peace and we talk about like i want to be a millionaire and all here's the part that makes me the most nervous. And we talk about financial peace and we talk about like, I want to be a millionaire and all that. For me personally, that's never really spoken to me. Here's what's spoken to me. I think it was two years ago now, one of my cousins who I loved,

he suddenly passed away. You know what? I'll give you a more realistic example. Today, one of my closest friends in the world's mom passed away after a know what? I'll give you a more realistic example. Today, one of my closest friends in the world's mom passed away after a bout with Alzheimer's. And he said, here's the date of the funeral. I'd love if you could be here. And I checked on nothing. I said, I won't miss this. And it's because I have an emergency fund and it's because I have an emergency fund, and it's because we have built these things up over time that I don't even have to check.

I know I've got the money to go be with my friend and his family during this time of pain, and so my concern for you is you've locked yourself into this thing. I will never change this no matter what, come hell or high water. I made a promise, even one that I didn't even know I could financially keep, but I made it,

and so I'm just going to live a life on a fixed income and that just makes me nervous for you because life doesn't work like that generally speaking if it did we wouldn't have this show right right right yeah i mean and there are definitely situations that could lead to changing that and then you know maybe in 20 years in 20 years, we'll both be ready for something different. Maybe, yeah. But to back up what Jade said about the investment, if I were you and you still have the ability, I would be out there hustling work tomorrow. I think you have to.

I could get one job, two jobs, and I would dump that into investments. It'll double every seven years. And so I think 21 years from now, they will have doubled and then doubled and then doubled again, whatever amount you put in there. Yeah. You have to think of this as you've made two choices. If you've made the choice to keep the house, then you've also made the choice that you're going to continue working. And I think as long as you do it like that,

you'll be okay. And to answer your question, if you're on fire, I would say, you know, Scoville meter, you're probably pretty far up there. It's pretty hot. You're pretty hot. It's pretty hot, but you got to work. As long as you work, you can keep the temperature down. As long as you work and you put that money away. This is The Ramsey Show.

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investing, carefully consider a fund's investment objective, risk, charges, and expenses contained in the prospectus or summary prospectus available at timothyplan.com. Read carefully before investing. Mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners LTD and ETFs distributed by Forsyth Fund Services LLC. 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw. All right. So this is Deloney Vulnerability Time. Over the last few years, I've been sitting by Dave. I've been sitting by Jade.

I've been sitting by George. Never with Rachel. But with all my fellow personalities. And they will say something about money. Because I don't know much about it they'll say some kind of uh you know retirement vehicle or they'll say like 50 whatever and i will be thinking in my head i don't know what that is and i'm on the radio in front of millions of people and so off air i'll ask them like hey what was that and sometimes i just ask him on air, like, hey, real quick, stop. So we're doing a new segment called Asking for a Friend

because we know that you are out there listening and we're talking about retirement investing. We're talking about 501s, talking about 401ks, talking about all these different things. And you're wondering, I don't know what that is. And I just Googled it or I put it in chat GPT, but I don't fully get. So we've got you.

We've got you. So today's Asking for a friend segment is on what is retirement investing? It's such a good question. And no one wants to admit that they maybe don't know, to your point. So a lot of people hear the term retirement investing or my retirement account. And they're afraid to ask really what this means. Why is it different from other investing? Because it's something that as adults, we feel like we should know, right? You don't want to be today years old when you find out about it. But luckily, it's really not you who wants to know. It's your friend. So take a look at this. You don't have enough money. Okay. Right here. It says right here in this account account we have $401,000

Jackpot You missed it Nope, that says you have a 401k account If you liquidate that right now you'll have, you know, maybe $5,000 So what happened to the other $396,000? Boom Gotcha What is wrong with the two of you?

That sounds like me and Dave on a regular basis. Oh my gosh. Listen, you know, we're laughing at it, but it's very true. I remember talking to somebody and I said, well, are you investing at all? And they said, no. I mean, I have my 401k, but no. And I was like, oh, you are investing. Do you have any debt?

No, I don't have any debt. I mean, except for my car and my student loans and my mortgage and that loan i took out on the pony you're like what are you talking about right well i mean the truth is a lot of people you know you go you go to your job and they get you set up and it's like do you want to invest do you want to put money into your 401k okay you know but they're not really explaining to you what's going on okay so let's learn about this today. Let's talk about what retiring investing actually means for your friend who is confused. So really, there's really two vehicles. When we talk about retirement investing, this is money that when you are of retirement age,

it's there for you because after a while, you're not going to be working your job, getting your normal check, right? And so you want to make sure that when you get that age, there's money for you. So for most people, you know, retirement age is 59 and a half. So these accounts, once you put the money in, you can't get to it until you're 59 and a half, okay? So there's really two vehicles that most people will see. You see a 401k, and it comes in a traditional form where you pay the taxes right when you put, it comes in a traditional form where you pay the taxes right when you put, it comes in a traditional form where you put the money in and you pay the taxes on it later

or it can come in a Roth form where you pay the taxes now so that when you pull the money out later, you don't have to pay the taxes, right? And these are all, this is employee sponsored. When you go to work at a job, they say, hey, we've got this account for you. You can put money into it and invest it, and it'll be there for you when you need it, okay? Then you could do another type of account that has

absolutely nothing to do with your job, right? Maybe you're self-employed or you're just, you know, not there. Are you taking notes? I'm taking notes. I'm taking notes. I'm getting my learn on. Anything, any kind of earned income you have, you could say, well, I'm going to go out on my own and do my own retirement investing. And if that's the case, you would do an IRA, right? It's basically an individual retirement agreement, I think is what it stands for. And so that's you aside from your job saying, I want to invest for retirement. And it's the same idea. You've got the traditional option where you put the money in and then you pay the taxes later when you take it out, or the Roth version, you put the money in, you pay taxes on it when you put it in. And then when you take it out,

you don't have to pay the taxes, right? That's what we're talking about. And so that's really what it looks like. If you're a school teacher, you might have a 403B. If you're in the military, you might have a, I think it's a 459, 559. I can't remember, but they take different. Those are the tax treatments, those different numbers. And so everybody's got access to one or the other. But that's the point here. It's money that you're putting aside so that later it's there when you're ready to retire. That's the whole point. So if you're not investing and it's time for you to invest, I would say you need to do it. So then most people are like, okay, how do I know when it's time for me to invest?

So let's talk about that a little bit john you got your notes ready i'm ready let's do this all right you do the first one because you know this what's one thing that you should have in place first before you start retiring an emergency fund yay i gotta take care of my today before i start trying to plan for my tomorrow i love that That is just like something that would be hanging on. Yeah. That's like stitching to a pillow. You get it at like, at like, that's like in Michael Scott's office, like hanging in a frame. All right. So what I was testing John on is basically the baby steps, right? So this is a format to know if you're ready to invest first. If you have debt, we're going to walk you through it. First,

you need a thousand dollars saved. That's your emergency fund. It's just there as a cushion. And then baby step two, we want you paying off all of your debt except your mortgage, right? Once that debt is clear, because remember, debt is risk. Once that's clear, you're going to save up three to six months of a fully funded emergency fund. This is making sure that you are set. Like come hell or high water, you are ready to go. Okay. That's what that's about. Then when that's done, now we start investing 15% of our income every single month into that retirement vehicle. For most of us, it's a 401k. For a lot of us, it might be been going to a Roth. So that's the framework. Some of you are now saying, well, Jade, 15%, like that's great. But how do I know? Do I do the 401k? What can I do beyond that? Let's talk about that. All right, John. So let's say you're asking the question, well, Jade, I looked and my employer

is offering a 401k. Do I invest there or do I go to the Roth IRA? This is how you want to think about it. Most employers offer some sort of match, right? 3%, 4%, whatever that is. If you have a match, that's the best thing you can get because it's free money. So you always start there. You invest up to your match. And then for most of us, unless your 401k is a Roth, because that's the best option there is, unless it's a Roth, then you would say, okay, I'm up to my match. Now I'm going to go over and do a Roth IRA. Max that out. And then once that's gone, then you could come back to your traditional 401k, finish that up. And that is really, really good. If you still have money that you can invest, then you could go and go into another type of account. That's a non-retirement account. You

could do a brokerage account or something like that. So like just to break it down for a simpleton like me. Go for it. Let's say I work at a company and they give me a 5% match. And so I'm going to put 5% of my income into that account and take their free money. That's right. Right? Yeah. The 5% is usually on income. 5% of your income.

And we get this question a lot. So that adds up to 10%, but we're going to put 15 of our own money in that account. So I put in five. Now I'm going to loop back over here and let's say I can put up to 7% of my income and max out a Roth IRA. So now I got 12%. Now I'm going to come back and say, okay, I'm going to up my original by another 3%. That's right. And so I'm going to have 8% and they're matching five.

And then I'm going to have 7% of my income in a Roth and I'm walking away. And that sounds complicated, but I've taken 15% and I don't care what the match is. I'm not including that. It's just gravy money on top. That's right. And then I'm going to put 8% of my income into this account and I'm going to put 7% in that and then I'm walking away. Yeah.

And you bring up a good point. So, you know, we teach 15% of your income goes away until you've paid off your house and then you can do whatever you want beyond that. But some people say, well, Jade, man, my match is amazing. I get seven percent match or 10 percent match or even four percent fine. Does that count towards the 15 percent? And you're right. It does not. It's on top of that, because here's the thing. Life changes and you want to be in the rhythm of investing 15 percent regardless, because let's say you move away and now this employer doesn't do that same match or you decide to go into business for yourself. So many things

can change and you want that muscle built that you know, it's like when you get the money, 15% goes. You don't even have to think about it. So it's good. And also multiple jobs. Multiple jobs I've worked. They've come in and said, hey, we're having tough times financially. We're not going to lay people off, but we're going to drop the match to X percent. And if they drop the match to X percent and you've built that in, not a lot of people can then go, okay, during tough times,

well, then I'm going to have to increase X percent of my salary. That's already part of our life. And so it just makes the gravy a little bit less. Very true. It doesn't hurt you financially in your bigger picture. That's so true. And hey, if you have more questions

about investing, you can check out one of our SmartVestor pros and they can help you out. This is The Ramsey Show. All right, here's the deal. I need your help. Jade and I need your help.

We have this amazing Live Like No One Else cruise, and it is almost sold out. We've been talking about it for a few weeks now, maybe a couple of months. It is almost sold out, and there is now a quiet competition for who is going to get credit for the last seats sold.

And Jade and I are on together, and so I am shamelessly asking, if you are thinking about coming on this cruise, if you know we're going on this cruise, I'm going to surprise the loved one, I'm going to surprise my wife, I'm going to surprise my husband. We're doing this. $600 deposit. That's all it takes, and these cabins are gone.

We are running out of cabins, and you can help me and Jade defeat George and Rachel and Ken, which is really what we want to do here. Here's the deal. It's the ultimate debt-free celebration. The vacation is for those of you who are on Baby Steps 4 and above. Seven days, March 22nd through 29th, we're going to be stopping in some amazing places. And by we, I'm talking about me, Jade, Rachel Cruz, George Campbell,

Ken Coleman, Dave Ramsey, and a bunch of Dave's rad musician and comedian and other entertainers, friends, magicians, the whole thing. We're going to Turks and Caicos. We're going to St. Thomas. We're going to Puerto Rico. We're going to the Bahamas. And we are going to eat well. We're going to have events.

We're going to have music. We're going to have all kinds of chaos on this boat. Are you going to play your guitar? I might play the guitar. If George does, I will, because they're going to need to get that taste out of their ears. And so, yes. Are you going to sing?

You're singing, aren't you? Me and George are going to do a duet of more than words. Well, then we're duetting. We're duetting. Saying I love. All right, here's the thing. We're almost out. We're almost out.

The VIP upgrades and many of the cabin types completely sold out. They're already gone. If you're trying to get your pick of the last few cabins, like the one with an ocean view, I think there's a couple left. Get your deposit in right now. $600 deposit.

Book your cabin today at ramsaysolutions.com slash cruise. Not Tom Cruise. Cruise. C-R-U-I-S-E. Ramsey, maybe how you spell Tom Cruise. I don't know. That Tom Cruise. Cruise. C-R-U-I-S-E. Ramsey Solutions. Maybe how you spell Tom Cruise. I don't know. That's correct. Ramseysolutions.com slash cruise.

It is going to be a party. Come join us. Alright, let's go out to Edmonton, Alberta, and talk to Amber, like the light. What's up, Amber? Hey, how's it going? We're partying. What's up? Right on's it going we're doing we're partying what's up right on um i just wanted to ask if you feel that we're in a position to increase our mortgage to buy our forever home

or if we should be seeing foot and getting the mortgage done okay um yeah i want to help with that maybe give you a rundown of where we're at financially. Yeah, I'd love that. We've been doing the debt pay down, but backwards. So I started with the mortgage. So I stopped that. We got the emergency fund in place. Kids' college funds were fully funded beforehand. I stopped retirement savings. The only thing we owe now is $9,000 on a travel trailer that will be paid off by the end of next month.

So then I have a bonus coming that's guaranteed that will put us into Baby Step 6, basically. Okay. And we own a house that's worth about $685. We owe $149 on it. The perfect property just came up for us that we feel will be like long-term and we have to increase our mortgage by $105,000 to take that mortgage on. Okay. So let's think about it like this. I love that you're kind of getting back on track. You're paying off the debt, getting the emergency fund in place. it is it three months or six months that'll be four months four months okay are both you and your spouse working yes

okay i'm fine with four months kids college is on track so when you sell this house what will it bring you all said and done we got about 500 in equity. Okay. And then the house that you're wanting to get, it's $100,000 more? Yeah. Okay. So it'll make our mortgage about $255 instead of $149. Okay. And what's the monthly payment? Have you looked at the percentages?

Well, I wanted to do it on a 10-year, and that puts us at 22%. Listen. Yeah. I'm like, why not? Today, kid, today. Yeah, instantly. I love that you're doing a 10-year mortgage because you want to get this thing out of your hair. I love that it's only going to be 22% of your take-home pay. I mean, you're meeting all the parameters and as long as you have peace about it, that's the final parameter. And so, there you go. My only challenge to you, Amber, is to unclench your fist around the words forever home. Yeah, fair.

Because there's just no such thing, and life just has a bunch of twists and turns, and it's the coolest home for this season. And same as I've got a cool jacket that I got one time from Filson that I love, and I have some cool hunting gear that I got from Sitka. I don't wear those in the summer because it'd be a thousand degrees, right? So for that season, it's the best and then we roll into spring and then we just do what's right in front of us.

So I don't really believe in the forever house kind of thought, but when it comes to numbers, you are right on. Good for you. Okay, awesome. Good for you guys. Congratulations. Alright, let's roll out to Kansas City, home of Patrick Mahomes, and talk to Jennifer.

What's up, Jennifer? Hi. Thank you for having me today. Of course. What's up? So we have an incoming senior. She's going to be a senior in high school. Just trying to help her kind of figure out what the next step will be.

So she's kind of a clean slate. Just started working as a part-time job, but really doesn't have a lot of money saved, you know, anything. The vehicle that she drives right now is one that my husband and I purchased with cash with the idea that that would be all of our children's car as they get 16, you know, she's kind of an old beater. AC doesn't work, that kind of thing. My in-laws have offered or said they want to give her $10,000 cash as a senior president,

whatever it is, total gift. But they have stated that they would really like for her to use this on a vehicle. We would like for her to get a vehicle. We have been kind of in the starting to get her to brainstorm about ways to do that, save money, what are you going to be able to afford, that kind of thing. Is that wise? What's your hesitancy? Yeah. Do what?

Why does it bother you? What's your hesitancy? We weren't, I just think that's a lot of money that she could also have some of it in her savings to help her get started. Should we discourage the full $10,000 to go to a vehicle? Here's the deal. Once they give you the money, it's your money. Right. And if your apprehension is coming from the fact that you know that they have a record of giving and then that those gifts

come with strings don't take the money no no no strings if they're going to give you 10 grand and they're going to recommend that you use it to buy a car if it was my house i might buy a seven thousand dollar car and put three thousand dollars in savings interesting or i might buy all ten thousand i don't know i think i push back on that a little bit because if I'm thinking, I'm just, again, putting myself in these shoes. If I'm like, hey, my cousin could really use a car. I'm going to give him $10,000 to get a car. And I say, hey, I know you need a car.

This $10,000 is for a car. And they kind of do something else with it. I think you can put something on a gift. No, you can. But you just get to decide whether you want to take that gift or not right and in this case i think you were okay when we were starting the conversation about her getting a car we were wanting her to stay more in like the 6 000 range you know so now that she has the opportunity to 10 do we still say take the 10

and go or do we say i would because before it was you saving up or you guys helping her but now you really do have a free gift it gets i mean a ten thousand dollar car it's going to get her a great vehicle i'll get her through college and beyond beyond and then that frees up more because you're not you're no longer saving for that that frees up more of the money to do what you want to do which go towards savings um whether it be you know for college or whatever what have you okay and so if if you're yeah if you if you don't want to do the savings spend to spend you know seven thousand a car put three thousand savings or whatever ratio you want to come up with let's say you spend all ten grand on a car i would put a dollar amount i might show her here's what semester one of college costs and we're going to be in saving towards this dollar amount because a lot of kids say i'm start saving for college and it's kind of an amorphous thing

here's what semester one is going to cost we're going to start saving or here is what your books are going to cost at college or however you all have that worked out and so she can have a target a dollar amount that she can begin to see i earned this and it i only have to earn this much more to get this number. But it helps her work towards a project. But a gift is a gift, and if it doesn't have strings to it, and you're raising a kid of character, I'd say go for it. What do you think, Jade?

I'm with it. I'm with it. I think giving them a target is good for college. That was really, really important. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be back very soon right here on The Ramsey Show. What up, what up? This is The Ramsey Show live from Nashville, Tennessee. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw,

and we are taking your calls on your relationships, your emotional and mental health, your money, building wealth, retirement, all of it. We're talking about work you love, anything and everything going on in your life. 888-825-5225. It's 888-825-5225. Give us a call. We're taking live calls.

Let's go out to Green Bay, Wisconsin, formerly home of Aaron Rodgers, and talk to Adam. Hey, Adam, what's up? We're doing. How about you guys? We Adam. Hey, Adam, what's up? How we're doing? How about you guys? We're doing fantastic, man. What's up? Well, let's start with the good. I don't have any personal debt between me and my wife. We run a business, and I'm drowning. Business is drowning.

Tell me about it. Well, we're the last of a dying breed, I'd drowning. Business is drowning. Tell me about it. Well, we're the last of a dying breed, I'd say. We're still here trying to eat, go to live in milk and cows, and I just can't make it scale. I mean, I've worn out several pencils, and I just can't make it work. Can I ask a question? You made the point of saying you don't have any personal debt. Do you have what you're considering business debt?

Yep. Okay, how much? That's all in an LLC. Okay, but how much? Mortgage is 1.2, and there's 300 in open accounts. Cool, man. Okay. You can't breathe, can you?

Nope. How long you been farming? Forever. Okay. So for those listening, normally this is where someone calls and says they took out a $1.2 million loan for their business, and they're running a $300,000 revolving account, and we get all fired up and holler at them. And I want everyone listening to hear me slow down because my heart's broken for you, Adam. Because as a farmer who's been a farmer forever, you generational farmer?

I'm fourth. 139 years. This is you standing back and looking at a family legacy that's going to be different after today. And that's a death, and I'm sorry. I'm heartbroken for you. Tell me about the challenges you're having. When you say you can't scale it, is it the size of the debt? Is it the fluctuating prices?

What is it? I mean, price doesn't help anything for sure. In 2015, I took over from my dad, and I looked at the spreadsheet, and it wasn't going to work how he was doing it. So I borrowed, you know, I signed the paper and borrowed a half million bucks, and some stuff happened, and it didn't cash flow. The first two or three years of it, cash flowed excellent. I was doing $700,000, $750,000 a year.

I didn't have schools. And the price fell, and as soon as I couldn't cover my payment completely, my bank was not willing to work with me at all. And in the last year now, going back and forth, they sold me to an investment company in New York. And I have until the end of this year to either figure out how to make a full payment or they're going to foreclose on me.

You have to take your farm. Family land? Yeah, 520 acres. Golly, dude. What's the payment? $16K a month. Right now I'm paying the interest just to 10. Okay.

What are you going to owe them at the end of this year? What check do you have to write? It would be 1.2. You have to write them for the full amount they're calling the note? They would be calling the note, yeah. Either they call the note or it would get re-signed for seven years at $16,000 a month. And you can't make that? Not with the current amount of cows I have right now.

What would it take 100 cows and what what do you got i'm milking 100 currently i'd have to i'd have to be 200 plus jeez man so what's the what's the worth what's the worth of this land pardon what's the worth of this land? Pardon? What's the worth of the land? It's over $1.2 million. So can you, I mean, I don't want to be the one to say this, but I think selling it is worse than foreclosing on it. You're in a hard mess brother yeah it's I mean I can if I had are you breaking up or are you thinking through this sorry i was getting away from my phone okay um you know if i could get into a hundred cows adam adam adam but that causes you going

into debt right you've been doing this dance for a long time i have yeah hear us sitting with you man we're not running from it but we're not going to lie to you either. Right. You've been waiting for the next thing and the next thing and the next thing over the hill, and now you owe a million dollars. And you've become, and you've read about these farmers, you probably know a few farmers like this. They get looped up in the debt cycle, and what the big investment firms want is your dirt and they find farmers like you who are

generational farmers who are trying to keep up with technology and the cratering prices and they see 500 acres that's about to be theirs. Can you sell your way out of it the back way and keep the land at least? Do you have equipment and cows you could sell? Yeah, my total assets is like $2.3 million with everything. Okay. What happens if you would go that route and you at least get to keep the land and keep your home?

Turn your land into a grazing property or get with my these guys who i just love the carbon cowboys and just run cattle for a while it's better than losing 500 acres of generational property yeah it'd be better than losing it i mean that's my biggest fear i've toured old dairy farms, man. It's staggering. But here's what I know. I've toured old dairy farms. I've got one in my family.

And it's so hard to part with it. So that's why I'm just heartbroken for you. But you're about to lose all of it. And if you've got enough equipment and cows and tractors to walk it out the back door and keep a small amount of cows and get with the carbon guys, cowboy guys, and learn how to farm without all the fertilizer and slowly rebuild this thing from scratch, you at least are hanging on to 500 acres of generational property, and they quit making that dirt a long time ago. That's what's most important in this whole equation. Otherwise your pride's going to end up losing it.

All of it. You and your wife are going to be in a two bedroom apartment here this time next year. Yeah. I just, I don't, I don't know how to deal with the shame. I know.

I got you. I got you. Hey, we're coming up on a commercial brother. I'm going to hold you you over because i want to keep talking to you for a minute okay so hang on um we're going to run to commercial and we'll be right back and your uh your bravery and vulnerabilities is is a gift and um i'm grateful for you stay on the line we'll be right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We are talking to our friend Adam in Green Bay, Wisconsin.

And Adam is a fourth-generation dairy farmer who, like countless other farmers across this country, is, to quote Adam, burned up several pencils trying to make the math work on keeping this farm alive. And as in many businesses, there's always another opportunity if we can just get to this next level and get to this next level. And Adam has found himself over a million dollars in the hole. And he's staring at a foreclosure at the end of this year that would take over 500 acres of generational property away and hand it to an investment crew out of New York City. And right there at the end of the calls, we're navigating what do we do next. And Adam, you're here. Does that sound about right? Yep. Yeah. And at the end of the call, you asked a really powerful question that I think every

single one of us wrestles with, and we as a culture do a terrible job of talking about it out loud, which is how do I deal with the shame? How do I deal with the shame of being the bottom of the fourth generation saying I'm the guy that had to call it? Tell me about the shame you're feeling right now, man. It's terrifying. It's all-encompassing.

It's all I think about. You can't wash that off. It's not like I'm an electrician and I can go pick up another job. This isn't what I do. It's who I am. I don't know how else to explain it. Are you a husband?

Yeah, father to two little girls. You're a father, yeah. So I know this is a little bit countercultural to a fourth-generation farmer, but I'd like to challenge you that you're a husband and you're a dad. And then down the road, and if you're a person of faith, you're a husband and you're a dad. And then down the road, you, and if you're a person of faith, you're a child of God, and then down the road is what you do. And I think what you do now creates what happens for the next four generations. And those little girls get to see dad faced with a reality,

not by his hand, but in his lap. And they get to see dad make, a reality not by his hand but in his lap and they get to see dad make choose his heart right is he going to choose the path of we lost it all um and i'm saying this because i love you because i had some ego i don't want to sell all my equipment and and net out of this thing or they get to see dad weep as people come by the tractor and they buy the pumping equipment and they buy the tanks and they buy all the stuff but they got to see dad go for a walk with the few cows that he had left through the field that will still be our family field and unless i'm i'm crazy i don't know another path in front of you and you decide okay i'm thinking about my the family i have that um was on my wife's side that was dairy farmers and now they've got some kind of grasses growing where it makes a i don't

understand what were they pivoted to but they're still farmers they still got they still got fields out there um they're just not doing the thing they were doing for a long time and that seems like the choice ahead of you and i man i I just, it, I could start crying here thinking about some guys in suits showing up from New York to take your 500 plus acres from you and your little girls. That can choke me up way more than get rid of a tractor. You know what I mean? Right.

And I know I'm being dismiss dismissive but i'm trying to say you you don't have an easy path ahead of you you got two hard paths and if you've ever heard me talk about shame guilt is i did something dumb when i took out that extra six hundred thousand dollars that was dumb i did that shame is I am dumb. I'm stupid. I crashed this farm, and I don't think you crashed the farm. I think you were batting cleanup on a lineup that kept handing you tough situations to try to win that game. We'll say both columns.

Okay, so fair enough. So what's your next right move? The good news is you have an opportunity. You have an opportunity to do what John said. And although it's going to be painful for you, you have the opportunity to start something brand new and do it the right way. And I think that that's what your daughters are going to take away from this is plenty of us make mistakes. We do it the wrong way, but what, what differentiates it as a win is you get back up, you start again, and this time you learn from your mistakes and do it the right way. Yeah. Adam, this is a big one and we're not gonna be able to solve this one here. Hang on the line. I'm going to hook you up with both of my books here for free. I want you to have something

that you can read while you're sitting there on the back porch looking out over the field and distract yourself a little bit. So you're not just spinning out and spinning out. But you've done the math. You've sat with the bankers. You've sat with the debt repayment note right in front of you.

You know that the math doesn't work. And the next step is going to be pivotal to what comes next for, again, the next step is going to be pivotal to what comes next for again the next few generations and given what you've told me in this in this short conversation i'd tell you to sell the equipment and unload as many cows as you can and clear that 1.2 and get the banks paid off and you're sitting on family property and then when the dust settles you figure out what you're going to do next but man i would i would encourage you don't don't because of ego and pride and shame don't let them come take everything because god knows they will thanks for the call man thanks for your bravery

thanks for being vulnerable in front of all these people um there's countless men and women sitting right where you are at their homes trying to figure out what to do next and it's pride and ego and fear getting in the way of choosing the next hard right move so i'm proud of you man call anytime and we'll be with you so let's go to denver colorado and talk to andrew hey andrew what's up man how are you thanks for taking my call we're good what's up hey a little. About six months ago, I took a new job. Went from about $150,000, $160,000 a year down to $120,000. The job I took didn't quite work out, unfortunately.

And so I've been looking for the next move, and my wife and I have explored moving to a state away and going to work for an old customer, my old employer. And I'm talking to them this morning, actually, and we talked a little about what it would take to move out there. And then about an hour after I hung up the phone, I got a call from a competitor here locally for a pretty generous offer, about $200,000 a year to stay. And so my wife and I have kind of gotten jazzed about the idea of moving, stayed away, going on a little family adventure. And then I got a call saying,

hey, we'll pay you a bunch of money to stay. So my question is, is it, you know, okay to go back to the company I'm talking to to stay away and say, hey, I just got another offer to stay here. Can you match it? Or is this just a decision we've got to make as a family saying, hey, are we going or are we staying? I would definitely go back. I mean, you're seeing what your value is in the marketplace. And so I think that it's fair.

I mean, this happened and it's great that your current position offered you more. So yeah, go back to who you were talking to and say, listen, I just got this offer and I'm not trying to play you, but it's enough to make me stay. And I'd really want to come work for you if you can match it and just start talking. Because there might be other ways that he can match it in value, maybe not so much in salary, right? There might be creative ways you can make this work. That's a great point. Okay. And just frame it just like that. Call him right back and say, hey, you know, I know it sounds uncanny,

but I just got a call 10 minutes after we hung up. Honestly, I would call him laughing. Like, you're not going to believe this, man. I just got one dropped out of the moon. And they're often bananas money. And so me and my wife have to work through it.

Tell me where your final final is. Okay. And listen, if he looks at you, if he talks on the phone and says how dare you you're playing me punk then you just dodged a bullet like the matrix that's true and if he laughs with you and goes guy business let me go back and see what i can do man because we really want you here that's a guy i might take less money for to go have a family adventure with rock on i love it does that make sense absolutely yeah absolutely awesome and uh andrew i'll i'll tell you i'll tell andrew jade what we tell everybody if you're good at what you do there's always going to be somebody calling there's always going to be opportunities and so at some point you have to settle into

what kind of life do we and our family want to live? And the dollar amount is a part of it, but it can't be the end all be all. Yeah, it's a goalpost. The goalpost is always going to move and you have to make the decision at some point to go, I'm content and I'm good with this. Or what field do we want to put that goalpost on?

But man, we got to make a life that we want'm content. Yeah. And I'm good with this. Or what field do we want to put that goalpost on? But man, we got to make a life that we want to have. Yeah. And an extra 20, 30,000 bucks when you have enough, it's not worth it. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. And I'm looking out into the lobby at all the beautiful people. And on the debt-free stage, we have Taylor and Meredith from Huntsville, Alabama.

On the debt-free stage, that means you must have paid it all off. How much did you pay off? Oh, yeah. We paid off about $220,000. Whoa. How long did that take you? So a little bit over seven years. How about that? Gosh, y'all kept going and going, huh? So a little bit over seven years. Good.

I know about that. Gosh, y'all kept going and going, huh? Yeah, it was a while. All right, so what kind of debt was this $220,000? It was our house and... Whoa! Touchdown! Dude, congratulations. And student loan.

Student loans and... Was the mortgage bigger than the student loans or the other way around? The mortgage was bigger, yes. Okay, all right. Wow, very, very cool. What's the house worth? So the house now is probably worth a little bit under 400.

Let's go. I love it, I love it. All right, what in the world was going on in your life seven years ago that you said, let's just suck it up and get this thing done? Yeah, so we're recently married, probably a little bit over seven years ago, bought a house, had some student loans. suck it up and get this thing done? Yeah. So we're recently married, probably seven, a little bit over seven years ago, bought a house, had some student loans. I'm an engineer,

a little bit of a numbers person and just saw what we would pay in interest over time and really just wanted to attack the loan to give us a little bit of financial freedom eventually it's a lot of financial freedom eventually so when you said i'm a little bit of a numbers person your wife smiled a bit as though your bedroom is wallpapered in spreadsheets big excel guy you said that in a it's not great great. Lots of Excel. Lots of Excel. All right. So you sat down and like a good engineering nerd, you said, honey, look how much interest we're going to save. And how did you receive that?

Not so well at first. I agreed with everything he was saying, but it was more difficult putting it into practice for me. I think just not spending money and saving and putting it towards the house versus maybe going shopping sometimes. Sure, because that's not normal, right? Like it's not a normal practice. Most Americans aren't saying, you know what, I'm going to actively pay off my mortgage today. So in that way, you're kind of going against culture. What were you earning when you were doing this?

So we started out probably around $80,000, kind of first out of school. And Meredith graduated a couple of years after I did. And now we're around $230,000. $230,000? Wow. Wow. You guys kicked it into the highest gear. Oh, yeah. 230 wow wow you guys kicked it into the highest gear oh yeah i mean just one thing with that during this period of time meredith's had multiple jobs um at one point i think she had three jobs

wow currently she has full-time job and then also a side gig so she's really just attacked this and i mean done a lot with two kids as well yeah I was gonna say there's also two little ones over there also yeah so oh go ahead I was gonna say how did you guys play this because you know part of it was a student loan which by the way how much was this student loan I think it was around 40,000 total so you guys went into high gear for the student loan and then usually people would kind of take their foot off the gas and kind of be like okay we've done this we're going to save up our emergency fund and then we're going to kind of lay back a little bit and kind of be more intentional about paying off the mortgage something tells me you guys were like no we're going we're going even

harder yes we I think we definitely took our foot off the gas a little bit um yeah when we had them we we kind of halted a little bit on the extra payments so it took us gas a little bit. Yeah, when we had them, we kind of halted a little bit on the extra payments. So it took us maybe a little bit longer than it would have to save for them as well for college and things like that. But we bought a minivan during that time. So Meredith now has a minivan and just, yeah, lived a little bit, a lot of of trips a lot of things with the kids so been very fortunate to do a lot of that yeah we live in a culture that um wants everything right now you have this big um motivational speech night where you turn all the lights off and you light the candles and and light the uh like the get the essential oil diffuser going and you show her these spreadsheets

and you'll have this big kumbaya moment and then our culture tells us that everything needs to be fixed by the next day. What would you tell somebody? We'll get to the keys to getting out of debt here in a minute, but I'm more fascinated by, y'all hammered away at this thing for seven years. And we have a culture that just doesn't do that anymore.

When it comes to weight loss, when it comes to to nutrition when it comes to any sort of any goals um we have people coming out of of school with their first year of their bachelor's degree wondering why they're not making six figures and they just like what what would you tell somebody is the key to just simply sticking with something over time that long yeah i i definitely had to learn that lesson right when i came out of college, I bought a truck. So with a loan, um, and then eventually paid that off years before we started this. But, um, delayed gratification is something that I've definitely learned over time to, um, and in the back of my mind, the main thing is, uh, how can we help our kids down the road? Ah, so you have this, you have this why down the street that just keeps pulling you along.

Right. What about you? I'd say I still struggle with delayed gratification a little bit. But, yeah, I agree. Just knowing the reasoning behind it and looking forward to what's to come is the motivation. So how did you celebrate? I don't know that we really have yet what i need a cruise i need a i need you listen to live like no one else cruise is still available but anyway

i need you guys to have a milestone so if you could do anything what would like a big trip or a big celebratory moment look like yeah so we're going to san diego in october to kind of get uh for a little getaway so that's somewhat of a celebration well y'all make it a big getaway you make a quarter million dollars you don't owe anybody you need to go to europe you need to go to tahiti you need to go somewhere we want a lake house eventually so that's what we're all right okay okay so um there's a guy who just got married or a young bride who still fits she's got two years left in school she just got married and they're both realizing how much they're gonna owe and they all get out what do you tell them is the key to getting out of debt

um i'd say being on the same page. Communication, working through the budget, looking at that constantly, and having a good discussion on where we're going to spend our money and both being in agreement there. Yeah, I think knowing it's going to be hard during the process, but that you'll be able to breathe on the other side of it is motivational too. So I want to hear that story. Paint us a picture of y'all hit send on that last payment. And there's like the, ah,

it's kind of cool. But then there's been days and weeks since then. Paint me a picture of what your life has been. Now that you don't owe anybody anything. No one can take your house. It's yours. No one can take it for you. No one can take your truck or your van.

Paint the listener a picture of what that feels like. It's definitely freeing. You feel more lightweight, like nothing's weighing you down. Yeah, and I'm in the world of contracts and things like that so those come and go and it's it's good to know that if something was to happen to my work that um i i don't have to go find something right away oh gotcha you've you've bought yourself the luxury of time right and peace and that's amazing good for you guys all right so we ready to rip this thing off? You're bringing the girls up?

We have Abigail and Emma. How old are they? Abigail is four today. And Emma is... She'll be two in September. Happy birthday, Abigail. All right. So we have Taylor and Meredith and Abigail and Emma from Huntsville, Alabama,

paid off $220,000, including your house because you're weirdos, in seven years. Count it down. Let's let your debt-free scream rip. Ready? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free!

All right! we're debt free alright so we're gonna hook you guys up with two debt every dollar gift cards that you can give away it's a year of every dollar subscription you can give it away to somebody in need or you can use it for yourself and Jade this is how it's done this is how it's done

picture perfect picture perfect seven years slowly chipping away. Now forever no house payment. And those little girls are never going to know money stress in that house. Changing the family tree. That's what it's all about. Amazing. If you're listening, yes, you can too.

We'll be right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Today's scripture of the day is 2 Corinthians 8-11. Now finish the work so that your eager willingness to do it may be matched by your completion of it according to your means. Justin Timberlake says, If you put out 150%, then you can always expect 100% back. That's what I was always told as a kid, and it worked for me so far.

That's some different math, JT. Yeah. He definitely brought sexy back, but he did not bring math back. He did not bring math back. I brought mathematics back. Yeah. I feel like that's a quote that Michael Scott would have on his office wall. I mean, I think I'm going to get this thing printed up and put in our suite back there.

Oh, boy. I can just see Dave walking down the hall and pausing to read it and compute it, and his inner calculator just starts smoking. Let's go out to New York City and talk to Daniel. Hey, brother. What's up, Daniel? How you doing, guys? Nice to talk to you guys.

We're doing great, man. How can we help, man? So, I don't know. I sent in an email. So, basically, I'm 25. I have my own house, my second house. I'm financially successful. I got everything going on.

And within my financial success I would say about 95 percent of all my friends like dropped me left me and I feel I just have a girlfriend now and I just you know just very alone like depressed like don't know what to do so what happened where'd your friends go I don't know I don't know they just i was just focusing on my business and doing my thing and then after a while they i guess maybe they just felt envious or whatnot but were they jealous or did you or maybe stop calling them back yeah like you didn't point to the relationship even i mean no one of my friends i donated a car, and then a year later stopped hearing from him. So, you know.

So what's one of the businesses you run? You say you're a 25-year-old entrepreneur, you're very successful. What kind of business do you work in? Well, I own a power washing and a shrink wrapping business. Okay. So let's say you were working on a power washing job and one of your nozzles broke. What would you do right in the middle of the job? Fix it.

How? Replace it. How? Well, if I had it in the truck and the back of the truck had some extras. You don't have any in the truck. What are you going to go do? Go to the store and buy some. Okay.

The store down the street is out. What are you going to go do? Go to the store and buy some. Okay. The store down the street is out. What are you going to do? You've got to finish this job. I'm going to have to replace it or reschedule the job. Excuse me. Here's what I'm saying. You're a very smart young man, and you're very driven, and you're successful.

And when it comes to your business, when it comes to honoring your word and your commitment to a customer, you will keep finding solutions and finding solutions. And so my question for you is, why don't you love Daniel at least as much as your customer? Maybe I'm just so focused on everybody else, helping everybody else around me that I'm not, you know. I think it's deeper than that, man.

I talk to a lot of entrepreneurs across the country, and a lot of entrepreneurs become successful because they charge so hard, and they can charge so hard because they've been running from something their whole life. Either I'll prove it to you, I'll show you, or this illusion, this false illusion that when I get this much money, or I get the next car, the next house,

when I donate this thing, even giving can become that sometimes, then finally I'm going to have peace. And every time they get there, Jade said it earlier, the goalpost just moves. I'm going to buy another house. I'm going to get another car. I'm going to give this car to my bro.

I'll hook him up. He doesn't even talk to me anymore. Exactly. I'm telling you right now, in a weird way, you're lucky you're finding this out at 25. Most people find it out after chasing this stuff for 25 or 30 years. They wake up at

50 and their kids don't like them and they're surrounded by nobody. You're right. My question for you is, how are you going to solve a friendship crisis? You're going to go find some friends. You're going to put yourself in a position. You might take one less job or two less jobs or hire somebody to get some of the work done now that you've got some financial margin, but you're going to make a commitment to having people in your life.

And unfortunately for you, it's going to be different people than you ran with when you were younger, right? 100%. There's also part of this that I think is kind of normal. You know, you're 25 years old. The people that you're friends with at 25 won't necessarily be there at 30 and won't necessarily be there at 40. And so I wouldn't necessarily look at this as and won't necessarily be there at 40 and so i wouldn't necessarily look at this as oh my gosh i can't believe this is happening to me um it's also part of life like there's people that i invited to my wedding that i have never seen since you know what

i mean there's people that i thought that were going to be my ride or dies for life and we don't talk we don't talk anymore we never talk like it's over. And I don't necessarily know what happened. It just you drift apart. And so there's people who are in your life. Some of some of them are there for a reason. Some of them are there for a season. Some of them are there long term. Some of them are there to get you to the next spot. Some of them you help them get to the next spot and you never see them again. But in many ways, there is a revolving door to this. And I don't want you to think that it must be because of you or it's because they were jacked up or it's because I think there is part of this that you're 25 and life is changing very rapidly, probably for everybody in your friend group.

I agree. That makes sense. And no, men don't tell this to other men, so here you go. You have permission to be sad. You have permission to miss your old buddies, dude. That's right. It's good. Because those have been your friends since you were 12, right? Since you were 16, since you were 17.

Y'all did some stupid stuff together. Y'all got each other out of trouble. Y'all had each other's back. You're the kind of guy that will give you a car for sure 100 so it's all right to take a walk and to exhale and say man i miss those guys and like jade said i gotta go be about making new friends a new community i'm gonna ride with people who are entrepreneurs who are interested in doing the next right thing who are good people who are entrepreneurs, who are interested in doing the next right thing, who are good people, who have good character, who will hold me accountable to the man I want to become. Will you do me a favor? Yeah. Actually, it's not me a favor,

dude. I'm just going to go about my day. It's doing you a favor. You get off this call sometime tonight, maybe this weekend. I want you to get out a piece of paper and I don't want you to type, but I want you to use a pen. And if you're younger than 25, yeah, you're 25. So a pen is an ancient technological device that you can write with. I use pen in school. No, I'm playing. So I want you to write a letter to 35 year old Daniel. And I want you to write him about the time you had X number of dollars in the bank and you felt lonely

and the things you started doing when you were 25 so that in 10 years he could have the life that he's going to be having and that's the way I'm living there you go but hey

so you can live like no one tomorrow right that's right but that 35 year old life is not going to be about square footage it's going to be about friends who love you

exactly is that fair that's fair alright 35-year-old life is not going to be about square footage. It's going to be about friends who love you. Exactly. Is that fair? That's fair. All right. I'm proud of you, good man. All right. Thank you for having the courage to say, man, I'm lonely.

I'm 25, and I've got it all, and I don't got anything. Jay, we see this all the time, right? Absolutely. I mean, I think there's honor. We talk all the time about changing your family tree, and so there's this piece of honor in putting your head down and doing what you have to do to make things right financially for yourself and for your family and for your kids. But at the same time, the piece that you're looking for is not found in the money and the things and the stuff.

Like Dave says all the time, there's only one way to true financial peace and it's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. And that's talking about relationship is what that's talking about And so even at on this level, you know talking about person-to-person relationship You need that you can have all the stuff you can have the best paycheck you can have You know that your business is on point, but if you don't have relationships that matter you can feel very empty very quickly yeah, but it it It's it's an old trope by this

point but um i think it was jim carrey that said i wish everyone could just get a million dollars just so you could know it it doesn't do it yeah it doesn't solve that question that we all ask do you see me and do you know me and do you still love me right and i'm talking to you dudes out there in steel-toed boots and car hearts and your surgeons just as much as i'm talking to you dudes out there in steel-toed boots and Carhartts and you're surgeons just as much as I'm talking to anybody else. Everybody wants to know, do you see me? And now that you really know me, do you still love me? And so, man, you can have all the money in the world, but you've got to have that gang. You've got to have a group of people that you can call in the middle of the night and say, hey, I need some help.

Come see me. So that's awesome. Thank you so much for your calls. Hey, America, thank you so much for joining us right here on The Ramsey Show. We're here all the time, always putting shows in your feed to help you live a better, more peaceful life. We'll see you soon. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. If you're a leader, your personal growth matters for your organization, because whatever you lead can only grow as much as you do.

I know from experience. I've been CEO of Ramsey Solutions for over 30 years, and now I'm sharing that leadership and business coaching experience with you on the Entree Leadership Podcast. I'm taking your calls and helping you figure out how to overcome challenges within your organization. One episode could change your business. Check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,

or on the Ramsey Network app.