The Ramsey Show - Want To Learn To Build Wealth? Start Here

Starting point is 00:00:00 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Danielle is going to start us off this hour in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Danielle. How are you?

Starting point is 00:00:52 Hey, I'm blessed and favored. How are you, Dave? Just the same. How can we help? I have a couple of questions real quickly. My husband is taking out all of his retirement, cashed it in, and I am stupid enough to have put my name on the taxes joint, you know, married jointly or whatever they call that. And so like a long story short, he is still going into debt. And every day for the last three weeks, at least four weeks, maybe now, um, every day,

Starting point is 00:01:27 there's a collection agency, they're calling, showing up or putting notifications on our doors. We've done an itemized statement, um, on a couple of them that he's been taken to court to. My question would be as a godly wife, you know, I've, I've been doing your program for like 13 to 15 years so thank you for all your help i've got a house a car and everything is fine on my end but on his end it is not and i am not sure what is like my responsibility financially as a godly wife and what is how to get him to talk to me about finances. He won't do it with you. He just doesn't like you at all. I'm sorry.

Starting point is 00:02:08 But what do I do? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's okay. I'm not real fond of him either, so that's fair. No kidding. Okay, what do I do? He's not taking very good care of his wife, is he? No, not at all, sir.

Starting point is 00:02:23 I'm sorry, but i'm a disabled vet i'm on a minimum amount of money and i feel like i keep bailing him out and enabling him to continue on in the pattern that he is living beyond his means and i don't know where to stop that at i don't know and nobody's telling me They're telling me to combine. Pastors are telling me that, you know, we're in it for sickness and health and richer and poorer and stuff like that. That's what we took our vows for. I don't remember that part. But, you know, I mean, I was a little nervous. But my point is, is that I don't know what I'm supposed to do, what I'm not supposed to do, how I'm going to get him to talk.

Starting point is 00:03:01 Do you have any words of wisdom for that? Because I don't want to share my accounts with him if he's going to continue to pull out money and use it on whatever he's using it for because it ain't coming here. I don't know. Thanks for your service. What's the nature of your disability? Well, that's interesting. I have PTSD because I was traumatized in the military, if you know what I mean. So, yeah, so yeah, I get, and then you got traumatized when you got home.

Starting point is 00:03:35 Yeah. Yeah. No kidding. Yep. That plays into this whole story, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. Cause it's really hard to trust him when I know that. Has he, has he looked at you and basically told you to shut up,

Starting point is 00:03:47 and that's the role of a godly wife? Yes. Okay. Yes. Well, I've studied the Scriptures for 40-plus years on the issues that we're talking about, and there's not one place in there that that is a godly wife. Not one place in the Bible is a godly wife. Not one place in the Bible is godly wife defined as stupid doormat.

Starting point is 00:04:09 That is not in there. It's not in the Bible. So what do I do? It's not in the Bible. Okay, what do I do? It says, the Bible does say submit yourselves one to another. Me too. That both of you...

Starting point is 00:04:24 But how do I submit to something that could be a legal answer? He's not submitting anything to you. Right. No kidding. Okay. So he's not functioning as a godly man in that sense. My wife and I make decisions together, and she's been a full-time mom for 38 years. Wow.

Starting point is 00:04:42 And we don't do major stuff without, I make, all the money comes through my name, but it's our money, and we make all the decisions together. She has an equal vote with me on it. I've submitted to her, she submitted to me. And the reason I did submit to her, by the way, is Proverbs 31 says, who can find a virtuous wife? Virtuous wife. A virtuous wife.

Starting point is 00:05:03 That'd be like a godly woman, wouldn't it? A godly wife. Who could find a virtuous wife. Virtuous wife. A virtuous wife. That'd be like a godly woman, wouldn't it? A godly wife. Who could find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her, and he will have no lack of gain. Isn't that interesting? So I've had no lack of gain once I started safely trusting the heart of my wife. Now, sometimes my wife gets bad pizza the night before and blames it on the Holy Spirit,

Starting point is 00:05:29 okay? She ain't perfect. She ain't perfect, right? So we do have to sit down and talk through stuff. Sometimes we have a good hillbilly argument, but at the end of it, we're not moving forward with things that are destructive to our family against the wishes of the other spouse so you have a pretty serious marriage problem kiddo i think you need to go see a good marriage counselor and a pastor that tells you to shut up and go along with stupidity is not a good marriage counselor that's what i said and he's going through he wants And he's going through, he wants to, he's 64 years old, and he wants to go through bankruptcy to get rid of his debt. That's not taking responsibility. And I'm like, do not do that.

Starting point is 00:06:11 I don't know if he's bankrupt or not, but what we've got here is a bigger problem. The debt and the out of control is a symptom of his arrogance and his pride and the two of you not working together. And those are marriage issues, and really what you're calling us about is what to do with your marriage. And I think you need to get some coaching from a godly counselor, and you're a person of the book like we are, and so someone that's going by the book, the Bible,

Starting point is 00:06:39 and saying, okay, you know, godly wife does not include abuse, and you're being abused. Hmm. Okay. That's what I thought. And I'm not telling you to walk out the door, but I am telling you to not accept the shaming of someone saying going along with your husband while he's doing cocaine is godly in the name of shutting up and being a doormat. You know, that's not love, by the way. Loving someone is actually helping them not do self-destructive things.

Starting point is 00:07:12 Ken? Yeah, I'm just listening to this, Danielle, and Dave's right. You have a marriage problem, and I think this guy is exhibiting behavior of a guy who doesn't want to be married to you. And I do think the counseling is the way to go because we've got to get an objective environment where he can't hide and he can't bully with some statement. But I am afraid that he doesn't want to be married, period. And I'm not in any way trying to hurt you, but i'm going to speak to you like you were my sister and i would do the counseling with eyes wide open to find out if this guy really does

Starting point is 00:07:52 want to be married and i'm afraid he doesn't and we're going to find out and i think that again i'm with dave i wouldn't tell you to walk out now i would go all in and try but um you get to a certain point here where this guy either has to decide to heal his destructive behavior because he wants to be married to you, and at some point you guys are going to have to combine everything to finally be unified. But that's down the road. This thing is a dumpster fire.

Starting point is 00:08:19 Yeah. And I hate that for you, but I want you to at least know that. You don't have enough money to bail him out. No, stop it. There's not enough money to bail him out. No, stop it. There's not enough money to bail this guy out. I mean, he's acting like he's in Congress. So, I mean, just money's going out the door like crazy. That's so sad.

Starting point is 00:08:36 I'm so sorry, honey. You deserve better. This is The Ramsey Show. Buying your first home is a big deal and sets the stage for your financial success. So work with a mortgage advisor you trust, not just some random website. Churchill Mortgage is Ramsey trusted because they help you avoid hidden traps and expertly guide you through every step. Learn more at churchillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027.

Starting point is 00:09:16 Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. He's the number one best-selling author and host of the Ken Coleman Show on the Ramsey Networks. One of his best-selling books is Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It's his latest bestseller. Included in it is the Get Clear Career Assessment that we've sold almost 100,000 of, and it goes with the book for free. So not only do you get the assessment, you get the book to teach you how to read the assessment and what to take away from it. So be sure and pick that up at RamseySolutions.com.

Starting point is 00:09:51 Jack is in New York. Hi, Jack. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Well, thank you very much, Dave. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm at the age now, mid-50s, to where you want to get to be conservative with your investments.

Starting point is 00:10:08 However, for retirement. However, I don't have a retirement because of life choices that I've had to make throughout the years. So now that I'm finally in a financial position to where I can start making investments, I'm afraid to make liberal investments to make money to actually have a retirement because i'm at that age to be conservative so i really don't know what to do and i've met let me help you with this you're not at the age to be conservative i don't know who told you that but they were wrong wrong. Well, I don't have that many years left to live. You have plenty of time.

Starting point is 00:10:47 You're only 50. Okay. I'm not conservatively investing, and I'm 63. So I'm investing in good growth stock mutual funds that are growing like a weed, and you need to be. You're broke. Well, I'm not broke broke but i had no retirement whatsoever well that's i mean what how much do you have how much money do you have uh i got about

Starting point is 00:11:14 20k in savings okay well you're broke i mean for 50 years old going into retirement that would scare the crap out of me you You need like 250, right? Moving on. And so I'm not trying to scare you. I don't want you to panic, but you do need to get with it, as you said. And you recognize that. That's why you called. So what I would do is this.

Starting point is 00:11:38 The thing I have figured out is there's two things that we are afraid of. And fear is a positive thing in these situations. Number one thing we're afraid of is something we don't understand. So the first time you sat behind the wheel of a car, I distinctly remember I was 12, and dad said, move the car around back. I left no gravel in the driveway. no one told me you weren't supposed to press down on the accelerator all the way to the floor and so um i didn't because i didn't know what i was doing so driving a car i didn't know how to do it i was afraid and i was really afraid after i screwed it up right uh but now we all have been driving cars for decades and we drive and don't think anything about it.

Starting point is 00:12:25 It's like muscle memory. So you learn how to do the thing, and you're no longer afraid of it. The second thing you're afraid of is something that will legitimately hurt you, standing in the middle of the interstate. You should be afraid an 18-wheeler is going to turn you into a bug, right? And so, yeah, that's a bear is standing in front of you. You should be afraid. That's a good thing. But the other is just you're afraid because you don't know how. And that's the investing thing. That's wisdom,

Starting point is 00:12:50 but it's something that can be overcome. I don't want to overcome my fear of bears. They will eat you. But I do want to overcome my fear of things I don't understand that can help me. And the fear goes away with knowledge. So sit down with a good smart investor pro click that at ramsey solutions and let them let the guys that we recommend begin to teach you and gradually start to understand and as your confidence builds then you increase you'll easily increase the amount of money you start pouring into retirement type investments and you won't have to worry about the whole idea of conservative versus whatever bullcrap something you read on the internet right yeah i completely understand that that's absolutely true uh ken yeah i was just going to echo that that right now you have no idea what you don't know. And it just paralyzes you.

Starting point is 00:13:45 And so I think the quicker you can get seated with smart investor pros, interview several, figure out the one that you've got the best chemistry with, there's that teacher relationship going on, and you can make up some ground pretty quick, but you've got to be aggressive. And I would say, Dave, beyond just the mindset of aggressive, I'd be doing some things if I were him to make some extra money and try to catch up. Where can I make an additional 10 grand, an additional 15 to 25 so you can play catch up and start stacking some money? When you begin to see that momentum, by the way, that gets really, really exciting and you start doing more of that.

Starting point is 00:14:20 A lot of people think that they've got to have a side hustle just to pay off debt or just pay the bills. In this case, when someone is that age, to the extent that you can do some extra work and leverage your skill and experience to pour more money on top of the little fire, the bigger that fire gets. That would be a direct challenge in this situation for him. That's very good. And that reminds me, when they're walking around out there in the world people say these sayings that are just stupid right you know here's one of them what you don't know won't hurt you what you don't know will kill you that's a dumb but saying you know a lack of knowledge knock you out man i mean it's that's a ridiculous you know lack of knowledge knock you out man i mean it's that's a ridiculous you know like you can just stick your head in the sand and i'm not talking about jack here i'm just saying in general but uh yeah it's a big deal to know new things all the time angela's with us in knoxville hi

Starting point is 00:15:17 angela how are you hey dave i'm doing all right how are you better than I deserve what's up awesome um so today is actually my birthday happy birthday thank you how old are you like in a tip in uh 42 oh okay just a pup yeah yeah so I actually met you in Orlando a couple years ago in, at one of your events. So I'm trying to get back on track, Dave. I never did the baby steps. I purchased FPU at that event, never did anything with it, like a dummy. And so basically I'm in $30,000 of debt. About 18 of that is my car and another seven in credit card debt, and I owe five to a family member. And so my question is, I'm trying to figure out the best way to go about once I get to Baby Step 2, because I'm going to be finishing Baby Step 1 next month, and then in August I'm going to start tackling the debt.

Starting point is 00:16:19 My car has about 250,000 miles, and I use my car right now to make a living. And so my concern is if I start tackling the smaller debts first, and then my car breaks down and the transmission goes out or something, and I can't fix it, and I don't know if I should be saving more in my Step 1 for that, or that's kind of where I'm stuck and I just wanted your input. You owe $18,000 on it? Yeah, I had a paid for 4Runner a few years ago and then I started a new job. You owe $18,000 on a car you have 250,000 miles on?

Starting point is 00:16:59 Yeah, because I was a courier. I ran the miles up on that thing. I was a courier for the last two, three years since I bought the car. I just racked it up. Okay. What kind of car is it? It's a 19 Dodge Charger. Okay. A six-cylinder.

Starting point is 00:17:16 It's a cheaper one. Yeah. Okay. Okay. No. I mean, we're worrying about something that hasn't happened yet. It's a reasonable thing to worry about because those things may occur but i'm not going to change the game plan here i'm going to um you know if you have a problem you may have to stop your baby steps

Starting point is 00:17:36 and address the problem but until you do you were already broke before you started this and now you're just running broke trying to actually do some good and climb out, right? Yeah. I mean, so, yeah, cut up your credit cards, and let's start attacking them with a vengeance and work as many hours as you can. And as Ken says, always get an extra job. Let's do six things and do that written budget in detail and live on nothing and work all the time.

Starting point is 00:18:03 And let's begin to get this cleaned up because this is a scary place to be for you it definitely is i'm actually i had i moved to knoxville from florida back in just this last december and i had a pretty decent job didn't pay too great but it was it was all right it was my first job since i moved here i got laid off like after three months they just didn't need me anymore. And so I've been door dashing like 72 hours a week ever since. And I have another job that I started, but they're just trickling me in with work. I'm not full time with it yet. Once I do, that should be about 72 a year. That'd be that changes everything ken yeah i'd love to see her really

Starting point is 00:18:47 hustle through this quickly because that car is going to be a problem pretty soon yeah yeah and it's but i don't want to stop doing no no no in lieu of something hadn't happened i'd let that be that extra motivator yeah exactly this is the Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Selling a house the Ramsey way, buying a house the Ramsey way, makes home ownership a blessing instead of a curse. The Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find a real estate agent you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey. Now, we do not put real estate agent you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey. Now, we do not put real estate agents in our endorsed program unless we have vetted them and they're high performance, high octane.

Starting point is 00:19:36 It's not your Aunt Sally who got her license last week and she was selling Pampered Chef right before that. Now, this is somebody that actually sells a lot of houses. Okay, they actually know what they are doing in order to become Ramsey Trusted Agents. So if you want to find out who we recommend in your area and get your place sold or maybe help you get something bought, check it out, Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent. You can do it for free ramsey solutions.com slash agent melanie is in harrisburg pennsylvania hi melanie how are you

Starting point is 00:20:11 hi i'm good how are you better than i deserve how can we help okay um so my husband and i have two rental properties um and my mother-in-law has lived in one since 2019. Um, uh, she moved in from Vermont, didn't have a place to go. And so my husband let her move in to that house. Um, 2020 hit my husband's in the army. Um, didn't get a certain something that everyone was demanded. They were told to get, and he lost his job, said he was going to sell the house. She told him that God told her it is his job to take care of her because he is the son. So he bought a new house in the town down the road, and she still lives currently in this same house. Were you all married at this time when God told her that about you?

Starting point is 00:21:08 No, we were not. We were not. I was not around. So he was single, and she lived with him. So we have one child. We are expecting our second one in October, and I'm self-employed. My husband's still in the Army. But we came mutually to the decision that in August, because my job is pretty physical, that I'm going to stop working.

Starting point is 00:21:33 And then I'm only probably going to go back maybe one or two days a week. And so it would be very helpful to have an actual income coming in from that house. She pays half of the mortgage. My husband pays $450, and his one brother gives $150 towards it. It's kind of a sticky situation. There's six siblings between all of them, and everyone else has had their opportunity to grow and expand their family. My husband is the last one out of the six to be married and have kids.

Starting point is 00:22:06 So we don't want to kick her out. But she. Yes, you do. Well, I don't want to say I do, but it would just be helpful. You're so sweet yeah just tell me just say what you mean you want her to leave she's taking advantage of everybody and you're over it yes and that's where my head that's where my husband is at well then he needs to deal with his mom so so but this is the other thing she won't't move in to a senior high-rise. I don't care.

Starting point is 00:22:46 She will if she's homeless. She doesn't want to move anywhere. She will if she's homeless. So do you think that's our best option, give her like 60 days? Yeah. And tell her like, okay. Listen, I can tell you how to get her out. It's two words, rubber snake. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:03 That's where I was going. I was going to ask, what is she afraid of because we can make this really easy with no tension well but that's but that's the other that's the other hard thing is she she claims ptsd she claims all of these all of these issues well i think i think i think i claim that she's moving into assisted living if she can't manage her life. Okay. And we'll help her do that with a little bit of money, and we'll use some of the money from the sale of the house. You need to sell the house.

Starting point is 00:23:34 Well, that's what we ultimately want to do. And we'll use some of the money from the sale of the house to help her get settled and then unplug the cord, the umbilical cord. Okay. Okay, because my husband was cord. Okay. Okay. Because my husband was just from the Christian perspective, he was feeling very guilty from it. Let me just tell you. Okay.

Starting point is 00:23:52 I had a guy walk into the office here a while back at the front desk, and they said, there's a guy down here to see you. And I walked down, and he said, God told me you were going to buy me a van. And I said, no, he didn't. He didn't tell you that. He said, what do you do you mean i said he absolutely did not tell you that because if he had told you that he would have told me and there'd be a van sitting out there for you but he didn't tell me okay so i'm always i'm always interested as a christian for people who play the god card with such authority and all they are is a manipulator this has nothing to do with honoring your mother when they say honor your father and your mother it doesn't say honor

Starting point is 00:24:32 their misbehavior it says honor the office of motherhood the office of fatherhood if your mom does cocaine and wants you to buy it for her that is not a godly act okay right and your mother-in-law is misbehaving she's a travel agent for guilt trips she's got issues that's good i'm gonna use that i've never heard that i know that's a good one you should yeah i like that and your poor husband has been pushed around by her and and and then she plays the god card and god didn't tell her that that's a complete load of crap okay thank you it's absolutely not true what's your husband's stomach for all of this is he gonna take her is he gonna take her on so his thought was he was going to uh put the house on section eight and then we would register her for Section 8 housing.

Starting point is 00:25:25 No, that's awful. She needs to move. You need to deal. He needs to deal with his mom. He needs to lovingly, kindly go sit down, have a cup of coffee, and go, Mom, we're done. I love you, and I'm going to help you move into some assisted living with some of the money I make from the sale of this house. But you have milked this cow and it is dry and you're not milking anymore, mom. We're done. Well, no, mom, you're confused. I said we're done and I wasn't kidding.

Starting point is 00:25:58 We are done. You are moving. You're either going to move gently and kindly with my assistance, or I'm going to set you in the street with the sheriff. Now, do you want to play this the easy way or the hard way? I've you've reached the end of my patients. I am done. I love you. I'm going to help you as best I can,

Starting point is 00:26:20 but you living here is not going to happen anymore. He needs to have the backbone to say that and you don't need to be in the room well that's yeah they have a lot of animosity you don't need to be in the room you'll get blamed for all this so we could you'll be the you'll be the wicked stepdaughter if he's got animosity towards her this actually should be a little easier. Because... Well, you just gotta be careful to be kind. Yeah, but I mean, as far as disappointing her, I mean, look, you guys

Starting point is 00:26:49 have gotta tell Mama... Couldn't give a crap left if she's disappointed. I agree. No, he's not disappointed. He's not afraid she'll be disappointed. Him and his brother are best friends. And his brother is the one that sometimes also guilt trips him to keeping his mom mean well then let him

Starting point is 00:27:06 take care of let him write the checks you you guys got to cast a little amazing how everybody's got an opinion about what you guys should do with your money that's the key i know this family is they put the fun in dysfunction don't they wow you're coming home with a new baby and this is a financial asset that will help you all live the life you want to live. I'd stay in that lane to where they are painted in a corner. You're a multimillionaire, and you want to put up with this crap, and you want to just write checks just to not have to deal with it. That's fine, but it's not good for her. She's going to continue to do this crap the rest of her life, and it's not good for you guys.

Starting point is 00:27:43 You're losing respect for your husband he's losing respect for himself because he won't stand up to to this you know this mom that's out of control and it's not biblical automatically you have to write checks for somebody who hasn't who doesn't do stuff i mean i i want him to take care of her to the point he can that'd be sweet it's a charitable act but it is not a biblical mandate god did not tell her that he was to furnish her a house that's an absolute load of religious crap that's what that is and i man i i love my brothers and sisters in christ but some of you people are over-saved. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I've taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their

Starting point is 00:28:41 spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of next week, in the middle of all that grief, like it's just, it is, it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

Starting point is 00:29:08 You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. We can use your help, folks. If you want to help us out, we need your help.

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Starting point is 00:30:12 And the more people we can help, the better we like our lives. And so thank you so much for that. And, of course, leaving those five-star reviews, those are helpful too. Valentina is with us in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Valentinaina how are you hi dave um thanks so much for taking my call my question is do i keep my home and it's on the market right now do i keep it continue to try to sell it or do i just try to get more income in order to better afford my house i did not buy it the Ramsey way,

Starting point is 00:30:45 so I only put 5% down. And so I have a PMI and then, so I didn't pay the 20%. So that's basically my question. Okay. How much is your house payment? Everything's $3,500. And what's your take-home pay a month it is uh 9,700 total take-home okay so you're at about 33 percent of your take-home pay so your house payment is straining you isn't it yes yeah you have other debt yeah my car um i have 22 000 in that but currently my husband is going to take out eight thousand dollars in investment that he had he's going to cash it out so you make nine thousand or you and your husband make nine thousand both my husband okay um700. Your husband has an investment that is not in a retirement account. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:50 And how much is in that investment? $8,000. That's the total. He's going to cash the whole thing out. Okay. Put that towards the car, and then you're going to try to get the car paid off as fast as you can. Getting rid of the car payment will make the house payment much more bearable and what kind of a

Starting point is 00:32:07 path are the two of you on with your careers if i visit you three years from now are you going to be making a lot more a little more or no more i would say a little more what do y'all do for For both. Both. I'm an HR manager at a 500 company, and then my husband is a machine operator, and he's working towards getting moved up there as well. Getting his what? Getting moved up in his role as a machine operator. Oh, moved up.

Starting point is 00:32:43 Moved up. Okay. Yeah, then a supervisor and so on. Well, both of you probably will have reasonable increases. So if you'll stay out of debt, live on a tight budget, save money for an emergency, and even if you did some things to create some extra income until your income comes on up,

Starting point is 00:33:01 your house payment's probably manageable. Is there another reason you're selling the house other than you didn't you feel like you didn't put enough down or the house payment straining you i don't want to stay in georgia forever um well where would you move when you sell it i i would just go back to renting just so i don't have to stay in Georgia. I'm sorry. You're in Georgia if you rent. So I don't understand. When are you leaving Georgia? I don't plan to, but if I do want to. Well, you would sell the house then.

Starting point is 00:33:36 Okay. You're not selling the house because you're leaving is what you're saying. Yeah. So you would just sell it when you get ready to leave. Is there any other reason you're selling the to leave is there any other reason you're selling now is there any other reason you're selling the house no that's it um because i did have a job offer last month and i did chose not to take it because i would i could not sell the house and i would be losing like i wouldn't be making nothing because I've only owned it for a year. So I feel like it's tied me down to new opportunities for more income.

Starting point is 00:34:09 No, it didn't. If you made nothing but you left and made more income, you weren't tied down. You chose not to do that. But the house didn't keep you from doing that. Your husband didn't want to leave. Did he? Yeah. Hmm?

Starting point is 00:34:30 Yes. Yeah. Where was the job offer? In Miami, Florida. I've always wanted to live by the beach, but... And he doesn't? But we decided to stay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:43 Yeah, he doesn't. Yeah. Okay. So let's not blame the house for decisions you all made. He doesn't want to live by the beach. You didn't take the job because your husband didn't want to leave. And then you turn around, well, the house kept me. The house didn't keep you there.

Starting point is 00:35:02 You could have sold the house and left. If both of you were jacked up and jumping up and down and, you know, fireworks going off and you're so excited you get to go to Miami Beach, life is great, that house would have been gone. And you wouldn't have looked in the rearview mirror once. Yeah. Okay. So I think you all got to decide those kinds of things,

Starting point is 00:35:23 and then that will dictate when to sell the house. But just putting the house randomly on the market, trying to force him to leave when he didn't want to, probably not a good plan. Yeah, it feels like this is a dinner conversation. And here's the reality, Dave. Rent is very high right now. So I'd run these numbers anyway, and I don't think if we were to run those numbers, it would make any sense for them to sell and just move into renting. I think that's actually a bad decision. You're not lowering your cost, your budgetary items.

Starting point is 00:35:52 So I like the advice you gave there. I think that's a better play, allows them to continue to build equity. Get the car paid off, stay there until you actually are going to leave. And then if you don't make a lot of money on the house, so what? Sell it and leave when it's time to leave. But both of you don't make a lot of money on the house, so what? Sell it and leave when it's time to leave. But both of you need to be excited about where you're going and quit looking at jobs in areas he's not going to go to. So the two of y'all ought to talk about it before you start talking about interviewing for something. Don't interview in a city that he says

Starting point is 00:36:19 I'm not going to. So the two of y'all got to talk this through. Something's got to give here. And you've got good possible career moves that you can do in Georgia or not in Georgia, but you've got to get on the same path here. There's a lot of wandering around in this conversation. Well, you know, Dave, you have counseled people for decades, and couples specifically over money issues. But this is an interesting situation here. We don't get a lot of this, but this is an interesting situation here. We don't get a lot of this, but this is not a money issue per se. I think the bigger red flag here is that

Starting point is 00:36:50 we've got two people who want two very different lives. And I think that's really challenging. And I sit there and I go, now money becomes a factor here. But really, when you dig beneath this particular call, we've got two people who want two different paths, and we better figure that out pretty quick because that to me turns into a lot of tension, a lot of resentment, and the money tension, the lack of margin makes all that worse. It's kind of like pouring a little kerosene on that leaf fire out there to get it to go up, and that's what I'm concerned about in this particular situation, because it's real.

Starting point is 00:37:30 So what would you coach someone to do that wants to live in a different city and is looking for a position? Well, we're going to sit down. I would coach them to sit down first and let's both write out, without each other's input, separate sheets of paper, what do you want life to look like 15 years from now? I'd start there, because I think it's important that they get it out of their head and they write it down. They see it themselves. And then the two of them sit there and look at it and go, we're this far apart. We start there. Then I think a godly marriage counselor, a pastor, or an actual therapist to go, we have two very different futures in mind. And now we've got to figure out what life looks like when we want to

Starting point is 00:38:06 be together, how we get there. Can we both get there at the same time? Probably not. But this is a piece-by-piece walkthrough. Okay, we decided to get married. We love each other, but we both want different things. And so how can we meet in the middle here and actually get both of those things? So is it Miami? We put that on the list. He's going, no, I want to be in the middle here and actually get both of those things? So is it Miami? We put that on the list. He's going, no, I want to be in the Georgia mountains. I'm making that up. And we, okay, what are we actually talking about here? Well, she wants to be near the ocean. You want a rural situation. How big of a deal is it? Who's sacrificing on what? What are our professional goals? Where do we want us to put our money? How do we want to invest? What do we want retirement

Starting point is 00:38:42 to look like? I think you got to get all that on the same page and see how far apart you are and then go, all right, where are we going to give a little bit? Because both people have to give something. Yeah, absolutely. Now that sounds real simple. It is simple to lay it out, difficult to work through. Yeah, that's the trick. And working through it is essential to making a decision on selling the house and on taking another job and the order that we do that this is the ramsey show live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions it's the ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships

Starting point is 00:39:23 ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today. He's a best-selling author of several books, including his latest, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. The Get Clear Assessment is included. Now we're going to be talking about your life, your money, your income, your outgo, and anything else you want to dig into. We're here for you. The phone number is 888-825-5225.

Starting point is 00:39:46 Nathan's in Springfield, Missouri. Hey, Nathanathan how are you i'm great dave i'm surprised i got on my show on your show my wife will be thrilled well we're honored to have you how can we help well um i'm having trouble uh trying to figure out how to best ask for a raise or a promotion at work. I've been there for 13 years. I've been promoted twice, but it's a little slower than other people. I'm in after-hours support and I work a 16-hour availability. So I need to either, you know, I need to get more income somehow. And it's kind of hard to get a second job with that kind of availability. What do you do? I'm a senior technical support engineer for a fintech company.

Starting point is 00:40:34 What do you make? I'm about 90. And have you done any market research, just for some of your experience, that particular work, to where you know if you're in the bottom, middle, or higher end of salary range? I have. From Missouri, it seems like I'm on the lower part of the middle end of the range. Okay. When was the last time you got promoted? You said you've had two in 13 years. Just over two years ago. Okay. Do you have an annual review process or some type of quarterly meeting with your leader so that you kind of know where you stand? They're giving you things to work on. Any of that happening for you?

Starting point is 00:41:17 Yeah, we do have an annual performance appraisal. When is that or when was the last one? The last one was last August. Okay. So you're due for another one in August. or when was the last one? The last one was last August. Okay, so you're due for another one in August. And what was the feedback you got, and did you get a raise last August? Yeah, so I score really well. They love me. I usually get the best raises. But this year, they changed our raises to January's,

Starting point is 00:41:49 and they kind of capped everybody at a 2% raise this year. Okay. Okay. All right, so that's good information to have because here you are going into August, and you've already been told that for 2024, everybody's capped at 2%. They've got their reasons for that. I hope they've communicated that. That's good information for leaders to let people know because, you know,

Starting point is 00:42:09 people understand sometimes you got to make changes. So if in fact the company's healthy and there's a good outlook, then, you know, the race conversation isn't happening in August if it's been made clear that they're not doing that this year. So now it's, what does it take? What do I need to do? Where do I need to grow? What skills can I add to my tool belt in order to be a candidate for a promotion and for more responsibility? That's the question you have to ask. That's a humble question. That's not in any way arrogant because it's got to be about, hey, as my leader, where do you see that I have an opportunity to add some more tools to the tool belt, which one specifically could be valuable to this company?

Starting point is 00:42:51 As you look at me and my 13 years here, my last review, I want to be a guy who is growing, and that's in my skill so that I can add responsibility, and with added responsibility, we hold more compensation. So if you come at it that way, you're not going to look like a jerk. You're not going to look like a pinhead. And you're going to find out if you've got a pretty healthy leader that has some margin in the company to go, okay, here's what you can do. That's what you're looking for. Now, if you don't get a good answer there, meaning there's not a whole lot of things you can do, there's not room for growth, That doesn't mean that you throw

Starting point is 00:43:25 your hands in the air and leave. What it means is, is you've got a couple of options. You look for a place where you have some room for growth. And the other thing is, is in your line of work, my friend, freelancing is a really viable option for you. As long as there's no conflict of interest or a non-compete this is above board stuff i'm talking about they got him on 16 hour right yeah so my point is is even though he's got those crazy hours he's got to look for something to where he goes all right this is how i could maybe supplement i get off of that 16 hour by working somewhere else and then i add two he's got to look at his options for financial growth.

Starting point is 00:44:09 So one may have to give in order to get somewhere else. So Nathan, it is not ungrateful to have a logical reason to be paid more. There are two that Ken has mentioned. One is, how can I add value that you'd be willing to pay me more because I added value? What can I do that I'm not doing now that's valuable to the company? And two is, what are you worth in the marketplace? And so the reason they put a 2% cap on raises is either they're not making money or they're trying to run their stock price up before they take it public or something. Okay? Because payroll is your largest expense in any business, so they're trying to limit the increases.

Starting point is 00:44:49 However, they have another problem. Let's say that you were in one of the explosive areas of technology and your marketplace value went from 90 to where you'd have 20 different companies offering you 150. Well, their 2% raise idea, that memo is worthless. 90 to where you'd have 20 different companies offering you 150 well they're two percent raise idea that memo is worthless because everyone that has your job is going to leave if they don't violate the two percent rule that they put on that they made up out of thin air okay and so if a marketplace is dictating that you are worth 120 150 um they're going to lose

Starting point is 00:45:28 everyone that's in a similar position if they don't adjust to market and so um you know and they may they may be willing to do that i don't know but you're you know one way when you're in a job what one measure is always what can they replace you for? If you leave and they have to pay somebody $120 to come into the role, then their replacement cost on you is $120, then they have a real reason to do that. That's what I'm saying by marketplace study. And so I would go in, like Ken said, with some actual comp studies and go, look, guys, here's what this is happening. And I'm willing to work with you.

Starting point is 00:46:07 I'm not trying to blackmail anybody. I'm not trying to be ungrateful. I'm just saying that this position now, it looks to me like, am I looking at it wrong? Tell me if I'm looking at it wrong. But it looks to me like this position is paying $120,000, $150,000 somewhere else. And they may say, we'll go take it and which case i would i would if they say that but um but but they may also just not be informed because the technology sector uh we've experienced it here at ramsey the the comp studies we do them

Starting point is 00:46:39 quarterly then it moves it moves rather rapidly up and down and the um there was a time that it was just shooting straight up, and then there's a time where it kind of adjusted backward a little bit. So, you know, just look at it and ask them, this is what I'm seeing, what are you all seeing? And they're probably not even looking at it. I agree. And that's why this is a great lesson. When you go in with a salary range based on real marketplace numbers,

Starting point is 00:47:07 you don't look like a I deserve. You're just simply going, hey, here's what I'm seeing. And they may not have any idea where their compensation is on that scale. And it really helps you because, again, you're dealing in facts, not I just deserve. And the I deserve, the entitlement thing is where always rubs that's where ingratefulness comes from it's like hey i love being here i'm just looking at this and what are y'all seeing tell me tell me what's happening here and you know how can i help and how can i add more value i'd love to be a blessing to this place and uh tell me how and very few people get mad at you when you're doing that this is the ramsey. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is the season

Starting point is 00:47:49 for Halloween. It's October. We're wearing costumes and we're wearing masks. If you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. And while you're thinking about it, I want you to be honest. A lot of us hide ourselves. We hide our true selves behind costumes and masks all the time. We do this at work. We do this around our friends. We do this around our families. We even do this when we look at ourselves in the mirror. I know because I've been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst.

Starting point is 00:48:17 If you feel like you're stuck hiding behind masks and costumes all the time, if you find yourself hiding from your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can be honest, where you can talk to somebody else and reflect and learn, and you can accept all the parts of yourself over time and start living an authentic life. Masks and costumes should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. And if you're considering therapy, try calling my friends at BetterHelp. We'll be right back. at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Delaunay to get 10% off your first month.

Starting point is 00:49:10 That's BetterHelp.com slash Delaunay. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. We're glad you're here. He is the author of the book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It includes the Get Clear Assessment. Now, the Get Clear Assessment has helped almost 100,000 people that took it learn what they are good at and what they love and how to put all that together, who you are, the way you're wired, and what you want to do professionally, how to get there.

Starting point is 00:49:42 All of that comes out of this assessment, and the book is there to help you read the assessment and properly apply the findings from it. It includes the Get Clear Assessment. So you don't have to buy the Get Clear Assessment separately anymore. The best way to do it is buy the book, and it comes with the Get Clear Assessment. It comes with a code. And, Ken, you can take the assessment in, what, about 20 minutes? 15 to 18 minutes if you're just instinctively taking it.

Starting point is 00:50:05 Which is what you ought to do. Don't try to game it. That's exactly right. And after that, you're going to get a really great report, and it's going to give you a detailed report on the things you're good at doing. We're talking about in the world of work, the type of work that you really enjoy, and then the results that motivate you. And then the book itself is like me coaching you with your results.

Starting point is 00:50:27 Now you know who you are. So the book comes along and says, all right, now let's see where we can do this thing that I'm really good at, the stuff that I love. Where in the world will it work? So it helps you with the where and the how. And it's a really fun little project. So super simple. It's a bestseller.

Starting point is 00:50:44 It is. It is. It's no longer a little project. That's right. Well, you know, I say little. Turned into a big fun little project. So super simple. It's bestseller. It is. It's no longer a little project. That's right. Well, you know, I say little. Turned into a big hairy deal. Because we write books that are longer than this. And this was one of those things where it was like, if I was going to coach someone with their results on what to do, now how do I go turn this into money and freedom?

Starting point is 00:50:58 This book does that with the assessment results. Just go to the store at RamseySolutions.com. You can find all of our products and books and assessments and all kinds of things there and the find the work you're wired to do the get clear assessment is what we're talking about be sure and check it out grant is with us grant is in tampa florida hey grant welcome to the ramsey show hey dave thanks i appreciate it sure how can we help, I am calling with questions about, so essentially my, my main issue, um, my brother and I are starting a construction company or he actually already had a construction company started. I am currently working for another

Starting point is 00:51:39 company, um, right now until that takes off. But I do plan on leaving this company I currently work for to pursue that full-time. And I was just curious, how much money would you recommend saving before taking that leap? Do you think or do you anticipate that you're going to be paid very similar or less than or more than what you're making in your current job when you go work with your brother? I would assume less. It's still growing, and that's something, obviously, I would wait until the income was somewhat worth my while.

Starting point is 00:52:16 But yeah, I would definitely do less. What's the reason for jumping? Yeah, why would you do that? Why don't you get it? Why don't you make more? Well, I've worked for this company for quite some time. It hasn't been too bad. I know deep down it's something I've always wanted to do is be my own boss.

Starting point is 00:52:37 Make less money is what you always wanted to do? No, sir. Obviously, in the beginning, that would definitely be the case but yeah i don't know why it has to be it doesn't have to be so here's the thing you said i'm going to take the leap i'm going to recommend you don't leap yes i'm going to recommend you step get the boat closer to the dock maybe even an electric slide right into that you know a little style here's the point that we're making great yeah go ahead and get this get this construction company kicking butt,

Starting point is 00:53:06 and you guys are working 80, 100 hours a week, and you're about to collapse from fatigue, and you're making more money at the construction company than you are at your old job. Then it's a no-brainer to quit your old job, and you're not asking me about emergency funds because you're not in the water. You stepped into the boat.

Starting point is 00:53:20 You didn't leap and miss. Yes, sir. It's going to be there. That's what you do. That's how you do it you just you know all that requires is patience yes you're all excited about this and you just want to go over and do it right now but grown-ups have to wait yeah i'm finding that out more and more as i get older yeah it's a pain in the butt yeah yeah but i'll tell you when i look at it that way if i'm in your shoes then i gotta go really pour the gasoline big time on the fire over at the construction company because the faster i get that thing up the faster i can go

Starting point is 00:53:58 back to a normal set of hours working a normal job at a place i own, and I don't have to leap. Okay? Yes, sir. Yeah, and then your emergency fund doesn't come into play because you're not creating an emergency. You create one when you leap. There is no emergency when you step. And so let's get this thing going.

Starting point is 00:54:21 You guys go over there and just really, really work on the jobs, and let's get them going, man. Here's a really important mindset shift right here for people that are in Grant's situation that are listening or watching. Grant, you have to switch from looking at this day job as this job that's holding you back from doing the thing you've always wanted to do, and you've got to flip it to this day job is the stability and the boat that is going to get me to the bigger boat. It's a mindset shift. And if you do that, you'll find that the patience

Starting point is 00:54:52 is extended, but it is a complete mental game right now for you. And that's what will keep you patient. Otherwise, if it's all emotion and I keep thinking about how much I want to work for myself and be with my bro and never work for the man again, you will never be able to wait. Your emotion will rule the day. You've got to reshape this deal. That's wisdom. That's good. Good work. Good work.

Starting point is 00:55:18 Brandon is in Boise, Idaho. Hey, Brandon, what's up in your world? Hey, how's it going? Better than I deserve. How can we help? So I have a question. The best way to put it into words is how do we take advantage of a larger income that's more likely than not shorter term?

Starting point is 00:55:43 And what I mean by that is my wife is making larger amount of money than she has been for a few years, but we know that approximately the next four to five years, that's going to go down. And then my situation is I'm a disabled veteran and have a medical retirement that I can no longer work and I will no longer be able to work. And so our concern is how do we set ourselves up over the next four or five years to ensure long-term financial independence? Yeah, that's a good question. Thanks for your service. I'm sorry you were hurt. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:56:31 Well, the answer is, and then we can dig into it a little bit, but the answer is the baby steps that we teach, Brandon, are the fastest right way to build wealth, where you don't have a problem later but if you if you strike a chord of desperation oh god this is going to run out so we got to go do something stupid right before i get stupid i'm usually desperate so let's don't let's don't get desperate in here it's i hear wisdom right now i don't hear desperation but if you start panicking about it then you're going to go do something stupid in an effort to try to

Starting point is 00:57:09 leapfrog right i should tell you a little bit more so what i would do is i just work the baby steps how much debt have y'all got um we have sixty thousand dollars in a car. A car? It's part of, so she has social media. It's part of the business, though. So I grew up listening to you, Middle Sense C, as well as Born, and we've done actually pretty well. So the vehicles are only debt. We kind of went backwards a little bit because she uses it for social media.

Starting point is 00:57:52 So her income that you think is short term is the social media income yes sir why is that short term it's it's influencer and that industry is very um it's dying volatile it's up and down you know it's dying it is it is i mean we're seeing we're seeing it everywhere yeah i mean it's uh it's not what it was 18 months ago for sure yeah okay so um it's hard it's hard for me to speak intelligently because i don't know what she's doing but i will tell you this i think you rationalized your butt off on this car you need to get rid of this car man that's bogus if the only way she can have influence is to be stupid and sixty thousand dollar car then that's a bad idea man so we got it we got to be thinking about some other way to get at this and start getting rid of this car debt i don't know what kind of money she's making but if she's making a couple hundred grand or something pay the stupid thing off and keep it but we're not

Starting point is 00:58:43 going to finance our way into influence. That's a way to make this temporary for sure because your influence is based on hypocrisy then. So, no, you don't want to go there. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. You can come by and watch the show anytime you want. We're on every day, Monday through Friday from 1 to 4 Central Time.

Starting point is 00:59:11 Usually have 50 to 200 folks out here eating our free homemade cookies, drinking our free coffee, and watching the show for free. And it's worth every dollar you paid, too. I'm just saying. So in the lobby also is the debt-free stage and that's where kyler and stephanie are because they're debt-free way to go guys congratulations thank you dave well done where do y'all live chattanooga tennessee chattanooga just down the road nice little trip day trip up to nashville then and how much debt have you guys paid 123

Starting point is 00:59:44 000 very good and how long did that take? Just over two years, Dave. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? About, I think it started at $90,000 and now it's $160,000. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? We have two of the most boring jobs ever. I love it. I'm an accountant. And I'm a data analyst. And Ken actually gave great advice and helped me move into this role about a year and a half ago. What were you making before you made that move? About $40,000. Whoa.

Starting point is 01:00:14 $120,000. And you now make what? $120,000? We combined make $160,000. Oh, okay. What do you make? About $70,000. Okay.

Starting point is 01:00:21 So you almost doubled your income because of Ken Coleman. Yep. So what's your cut ken it's pretty good man i'm telling you right now i like hearing those stories that's great man congratulations wake up heroes i don't care if they're boring or not you're making bank and you got out of debt you did some data analysts and uh and and some accounting and figured out 123 000 sucked how long y'all been married? Just over two years. Okay. So by the time you get married,

Starting point is 01:00:46 you looked up and said, this has got to go. Tell us the story. How's your I've had it moment unfold? Well, so I was kind of, it took me longer to get on board. The accountant. Yes, I know.

Starting point is 01:00:59 But Kyler had actually found your podcast before we got married. And then we kind of talked about it before I didn't really think he was serious you hope he wasn't right I was like maybe he'll forget about it but we got married um and then we tried to cash flow a wedding and it was super expensive and then we were kind of at a point where he was really pushing it. And I kind of was like, well, I've kind of worked a lot. And I kind of just want to enjoy it at first, if I'm being honest. But then I was like, I was remembering when we were trying to cash flow our wedding.

Starting point is 01:01:36 And I was like making good money. But I was like living paycheck to paycheck. And I was like, this is miserable. So I kind of thought back on that time and I'm like we make good money we don't have kids yet like why don't we just go for it so with his help we kind of started it there we go it took a lot of uh difficult conversations but also you know a lot of graciousness from both of us to be able to come together and really develop that budget and that was the the cornerstone of it all yeah and as soon as you turn that corner and join arms boom game on right exactly i mean but

Starting point is 01:02:10 until then it's like it's pushing the boat pushing a rock up hill exactly yeah yeah way to go very cool what kind of debt was 123 000 uh just normal stuff credit cards car loans student loans um and the wedding of course some of the wedding day yeah gotcha okay very cool very cool did you guys sell anything or was this just all hustle I mean honestly we were graced with like great we were blessed with like great promotions at work and I feel like if you keep your head down and you keep working at it like you're bound to have something great happen to you and that hard work is going to pay off so we like tried uber eats for a while too we did that for maybe a few months but honestly we were just both pretty blessed with promotions and you know instrumental moves in our career

Starting point is 01:02:54 and just dialed in the numbers and said we're going to stick to it yes dialed in the numbers yes because i mean you blew up i mean you did,000 a year for two years. That's pretty impressive. Probably the larger in the back half as you got some raises and stuff, but still the average on that's strong, starting out at $90,000 and now to $160,000. Way to go, y'all. Way to go. I get this question a lot, and I want you to answer it, Kyler. What was it like to change jobs in the midst of paying off debt?

Starting point is 01:03:33 Because a lot of people go, man, I don't know if I want to do that. And you did it and you upgraded, which helped you get through quicker. I'd love for people to hear what the psychology was for you going through that switch. Sure. So it wasn't an easy transition just because I didn't hate the job that I had. It just, I knew what I I didn't hate the job that I had. It just, I knew what I wanted to do and I knew that I had to get qualified to do what I wanted to do and where I was, wasn't going to allow me to do what I wanted to do. So I had to make the switch. So it was a little bit easier for me in that regard. But like I said, the job I had, I didn't hate whatsoever, but I'm very blessed with the job that I have now.

Starting point is 01:04:01 But you, you weren't, it wasn't scary. You were able to just prepare and get qualified and then step right into it. Yep. And I had a lot of support from Steph as well. So it was, it was easy. He's gracious in that regard. I was kind of hesitant more so, but he like blew it out of the park. He, you know, got a certification in the process and I really saw like his determination through it. So I guess when you go through like scary stuff like that, I think the best comes out in your partner. So that's cool. Very nice.

Starting point is 01:04:27 Very good. Good for you guys. So what are you going to do now that you're debt free? We're going to actually take a vacation. Where are you going? We're going on a cruise in September and then Disney in October. Wow. Very good.

Starting point is 01:04:41 He hasn't been to Disney yet. Okay. So where's the cruise? I think it's to Mexico. Okay. We're just going with a few friends it was a pretty cheap cruise that's what we're doing too this year okay that's great good for y'all well done that's fun that's fun so you started the whole thing off stephanie saying in a sense i make too much to be this broke there's a little bit disgust was your why i'm disgusted with this i'm not gonna live like this and that's what finally helped you turn the corner

Starting point is 01:05:09 now that you're the other side of it is does that does it feel like you thought it was going to like you're free i think it feels better it's like we have so many opportunities in front of us now that we wouldn't have before i mean right now we're we're a dinkwad family no income no kids with a dog so like that puts our like future family in a better position too and like the next move is for us to purchase a house so it has opened that door greatly and it's just like lifted a whole different burden off our shoulders for sure you can for sure stack cash right now I mean you're in a great place way to go how's it feel to be free it feels well freeing it's you know it's really nice it's reassuring that all the the hard work is paid off and we can confidently go into our future and know that we don't owe anybody anything right now and once we do buy a house I'm sure that will be paid

Starting point is 01:06:01 off as quick as possible too yeah we didn't want to like you know we kind of got I was what 27 when we got married and I kind of felt like that was a little like later on in life but having like this pause and this reset to like get us on the right track was better and we knew like we wanted to set our marriage up for success and we saw the like statistics on like finances being like a huge contributor and divorce and we were kind of like that's not going to be us here yeah we're gonna we're gonna go ahead and tackle the number if that's the number one thing let's get that off the plate yeah yeah i agree very very good all right stephanie talk to the person out there who just got married and their husband or their wife is a little Ramsey crazy and they're driving them nuts. Tell them whether they should do this or not.

Starting point is 01:06:52 One hundred percent. Yes. Or I wouldn't be here. But I mean, I would say just hear them out, because truly, like you guys are on the same team. If you're married, you're on the same team. If you're working towards that, you're on the same team. You have the same goal, or you should, right? So, like, when he was trying to convince me, I kind of had to put, like, my internal, like, thoughts aside, and I was like, okay, Kyler just wants the best for me. He wants the best for us, and if I can put that aside and really see, like, why, his why on on it and his why was just to set us up better financially than it was like a no-brainer at that point so just kind of get all the outside voices out whether that be yours or like people who think your other spouse your spouse is crazy

Starting point is 01:07:38 just get it out the door and look at because truly it's going to come from a place of like he has your best interest at heart or they have your best interest at heart so way to go very much good word good word well done well done you guys are heroes way to go man touchdown yeah all right kyler and stephanie chattanooga tennessee 123 000 paid off in two years. Newly married and set, baby. $90K to $160K was the income range. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Starting point is 01:08:11 Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Yeah, baby! This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. He is the author of the book that is a recent bestseller, his third one, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

Starting point is 01:08:40 It includes the Get Clear assessment. Today's question comes from Brian in Washington, D.C. I have done the Get Clear assessment, and it was both rewarding seeing how accurate it was about me, but also discouraging as I feel hopeless on where to go from here. I want to provide more for my family, give my wife the opportunity to be a stay-at-home wife. I earn $100,000 a year in a stable government job, but it's not enough to sustain the cost of living. To be honest, I don't enjoy my job, and I'm not motivated to grow in my career or pursue other higher-paying opportunities in this industry. I would much rather scrape on by doing the minimum at work and get a second job that pays $50,000 a year. The problem is I don't think that's sustainable long-term.

Starting point is 01:09:21 I'm not really sure where to go regarding my work-life balance and taking care of my family and doing something I enjoy. Okay, this is one of those tricky situations where it's almost impossible to answer this question the way it's worded. that you saw that the assessment was accurate, but you quickly went from the self-awareness that the assessment provides, the clarity, to you actually got so focused on your circumstances that you've taken your eye off the ball. So the way that the assessment is designed to work and what actually needs to happen for you in your life is you've got to see other opportunities for you to step out of government work. This is sucking your soul out of your body. I mean, it's very obvious to the way you're wording this. And you just are at a point, though, where you're so exhausted.

Starting point is 01:10:15 You're so demotivated. There's some other stuff clearly going on to where you just want to stay there and get some other gig and scrape by. And you're accurate to say that that is not sustainable. That's a dangerous mental and emotional place to be. And that's going to only end up causing destruction in multiple areas of your life. So what you have to do here is you have got to get back to your results and go, all right, where in the world of work can I do what this purpose statement says that I'm supposed to do?

Starting point is 01:10:47 And by the way, it's a job description. And so if you apply that, you say, okay, I can get out there and do this. Now, what qualifications do I need, if any? And then begin to make the connections, and you get out there. But this is going to take you kind of shaking off this really horrible experience that you've had. And really, Dave, I feel like there's some depression going on here, but it's just really hard to read in a lot to what's really going on. Is this a classic case of if I do what I love, I must make less? I don't know. It's hard

Starting point is 01:11:17 to say. I know what you're talking about. We get that from people who said, well, you know, I just kind of want to do this thing. Because I always throw the work-life balance crap in there too. Right, right. I don't hear work-life balance questions from people who love what they do and are bringing bank home. That's true. You know why? Because there's no such thing as work-life balance.

Starting point is 01:11:36 The actual idea of balance, if we were to take two old scales, right, and we were to tinker with the rocks to see which one we could get it to even, that doesn't exist in work or life. Just from the sheer amount of hours we spend at work, it's impossible to have a balanced schedule. So you make a very good point there. I think what's going on is this is a guy who does not want to do any more hard stuff. And it's hard to transition out of government if that's all you've ever done. But, you know, let's just say that the skills that he has,

Starting point is 01:12:12 that he's using in his government job that he hates, if he applied those same skills in the marketplace, assuming he could do that within the context of what the assessment told him, but most government jobs pay less than marketplace jobs. And are full of bureaucracy and red tape, a lot of frustration. So, I mean, if you just went and did the same thing in the private sector, usually you get a raise. Yes, and it would be slightly more enjoyable just from the environment change

Starting point is 01:12:39 that you're pointing out. But let's say that he's in a government job. Let's play this out. And I were to say, okay, what are you really good really good at and he says i'm really good at process stuff detail stuff okay great well do you enjoy solving detail problems he's probably going to say yes then i'm immediately going into the private sector and i'm going all right maybe look at project management which is a viable career path that can lead you all the way up to a c-suite that's how versatile project management is it's just one example yeah exactly i mean like seriously almost all the government

Starting point is 01:13:11 positions are pay more in the private sector i did find one without question i did find one that was the exception you know the highest paid government employee in history was uh anthony fauci oh boy oh boy eight hundred and ten thousand really was that through grants or was that the actual budgetary line i think and pay that's more than the price and you don't want to when you're tired we we idiots gave him civil service at a high percentage of that salary so just by the way just go ahead and piss you off about something else jennifer is in pensacola florida hi jennifer what's up i don't know if i can follow that i know i know jennifer how do you even try to follow that oh well not with that much money let me tell you um i've been divorced from after an almost 30-year marriage since 2020.

Starting point is 01:14:10 And that was a fallout from COVID. Anyway, I receive $1,000 a month spousal support, and I will until November of 27. And I'm also going to be the payee of an annuity that's currently worth $100,000. And when I'm 65, it's supposed to double on paper, and I'm supposed to be able to receive a 6% per month payout, which is supposed to be about $1,000 a month approximately for the rest of my life. Is that all in place already, the annuity part? Yes. Okay.

Starting point is 01:14:40 Yeah. My ex-husband received a large inheritance, and we hadn't done anything for me retirement-wise during our marriage because we didn't anticipate not being married. And so kind of like in my opinion. So the annuity, the actual purchase of the annuity was part of the divorce decree? It was. He had it in his name, and then.

Starting point is 01:15:02 Oh, they just transferred it to your name. It's in both of our names currently, but I'm the payee on it. Forever? Yes. Okay, go ahead then. What's your question? So last week I received a call from my ex-husband, and he said he wanted to make me an offer that he thought was going to make me happy, and what he wanted to do was to pay me out of the annuity and give me a hundred thousand now and then to stop the spousal support um he thinks i'm in a new relationship

Starting point is 01:15:31 where the new man in my life is quote taking care of me financially which is far from the truth my new friend rents a room from me in my home and the money he gives me goes towards monthly expenses and annual expenses of the home but he doesn doesn't, quote, unquote, take care of me. So my ex says if I don't take his offer, it just shows how greedy I am. I don't give a crap about what he thinks. That's not an issue. This is a math decision. That's right.

Starting point is 01:15:57 I would make this decision 100% on math, not anything on broken hearts or emotions or anger or revenge or anything okay or name calling or anything okay so it's pretty simple so you get twelve thousand dollars a year till 27 so you got 36 000 coming there right right and then this annuity is worth what it's gonna it's supposed to pay you what he says a thousand dollars a month starting when I'm 65. I'm 60 now, starting when I'm 65 for the rest of my life. Okay, so that's $12,000 a year. And so the amount of money that would take to create that would be $100,000 at 12%. Okay.

Starting point is 01:16:39 Okay, so if you had $100,000 invested at 12%, that'd be $12,000 a year, right? Mm-hmm. That'd be $1,000 a month. And so it takes $100,000 to replace that, but it doesn't kick in for five years. So we would need $100,000 five years from now and $36,000. So his offer's not bad. Oh, okay. It's not bad.

Starting point is 01:17:00 Because here's the thing. The $36,000, we could just call it uh dollar for dollar okay there's a concept in money let me walk you through it here's what's going on in my head okay the concept in money would you rather have a hundred thousand dollars today or would you rather have a hundred thousand dollars five years from now well you'd rather have it today because of what you could earn on it during that five years agreed understand that's called present that's called present value or and future value and so you can take a hundred thousand dollars in the future like say five years from now and you would discount that to a present value and that's

Starting point is 01:17:38 probably 66 000 so if you get 100 in your pocket now and invest that now with a good smart investor pro um you're probably going to end up with more money i might go back to him and say i think i might be close to doing this if you go a little higher and just see what see if he come on up to a hundred and a half because he might because he i think he's trying to get uh you distanced i'm gonna try to negotiate it up and then go to a smart investor pro because I think he's trying to get you distanced. I'm going to try to negotiate it up and then go to a SmartVestor Pro. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Starting point is 01:18:25 Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. This is a Baby Steps Millionaires theme hour. If you're unfamiliar with our Baby Steps Millionaires theme hours, this is when we talk only with millionaires. Regardless of how you got a million dollars or more, we want to learn from you where it came from, who you are, so that some of us out here can be like you. And so it's a lesson from real people that have really done it.

Starting point is 01:18:55 We need to start with the idea that we're going to define millionaire. It is an accounting definition. It's a math definition. A millionaire is not someone that makes a million dollars a year. A millionaire is someone with a net worth of $1 million or more. A net worth is determined by your assets, things that you own of value, minus your liabilities, your debt, what you own minus what you owe. And regardless of what it is, if it is a value, it is an asset.

Starting point is 01:19:36 And so what you own minus what you owe, when that equals $1 million, you are a millionaire. Well, nobody should be a millionaire. It's not a moral construct. It's a math formula. Well, a million dollars isn't enough. Maybe, but that's a different discussion. It's a math formula. You either is or you isn't. What you own minus what you owe.

Starting point is 01:20:04 It's not an emotional thing, and your little left-wing crazy professor, communist professor in college doesn't get to redefine it. It is simply a math formula. You either is or you isn't. Is it enough? Probably not, and it's not as much as it used to be because of inflation, but it is more than most people got. There's about 26 million millionaires in America today, and we talk to them all the time. So if you are a millionaire because your grandmother left you money, because you hit the lottery, because you've worked your tail end off for 842 years, whatever it is you did that made you a millionaire, we want to talk to you and learn from you how you

Starting point is 01:20:52 did it and see if it's something that is replicatable for other people who have not done it yet to build a level of wealth. This is the first level of wealth where you would start to say someone is, in air quotes, wealthy. Now, they're not billionaires. They're millionaires. A billionaire is 1,000 million. They have five houses, a private jet, and seven cars. Millionaires have two cars and one house and fly commercial, okay?

Starting point is 01:21:24 So let's just keep in mind how this works, all right? And so don't get confused about what this stuff is. David is our first one online in Tulsa, Oklahoma. David, what's your net worth? Hey, Dave. Net worth is $1.2 million. Very cool. Would you break that down for me by category, like how much real estate,

Starting point is 01:21:44 how much retirement, and so on? You bet. So in retirement, we have got a little over three-quarters of a million. College fund for the kids, we've got right around $46,000. Real estate is a little over $300,000. Vehicles, right around $33,000, liquid we've got $50,000, and then there's about $13,000 in other assets. Very cool. How old are you? 41.

Starting point is 01:22:13 41-year-old millionaire. How much of this $1.2 million did you inherit? We received a gift from a family member for $85,000. We got that pretty close to when we were, you know, approaching the $1 million mark. So mathematically, you did not become a millionaire because of inherited money. That's correct. Most of this was your doing, and the $85,000 just kind of put icing on the cake. Yes, sir.

Starting point is 01:22:38 Okay, cool, cool. And so what's your best year working household income and worst year since you've been working? Best year was around $160,000. Worst year, first year out of college was right around $50,000. Cool. What do you do? What's your career? So I spent 13 years in the oil and gas industry, and now I am in real estate.

Starting point is 01:23:03 Cool. What's your degree in? I have a degree in industrial safety. Okay, cool. And is that a four-year degree? Yes, sir. Your GPA was what? I almost would rather not say, but I think it was like a 2.8.

Starting point is 01:23:19 Hey, I had a 2.97. It's okay. I'm still pissed about that three one-hundredths of a point. I think beer was involved. I know, so close. Okay,-hundredths of a point. I think beer was involved. I know. So close. Okay, cool. Good for you, man. Way to go.

Starting point is 01:23:30 And you're a 41-year-old millionaire. All right. And you or your wife, what's the most expensive pair of blue jeans you ever bought? I'd say probably around $80. Okay. And what do you drive? I drive a 2011 Toyota Camry with with 253 000 miles on it good lord i hope she's got a good car she does what she drive she drives a uh a minivan a honda odyssey oh nice one okay good because you're a tightwad man way to go to go. I'm having fun with you. That's impressive, man.

Starting point is 01:24:05 You're a hero. Look at you. Well, thank you. Very cool. Not rolling up in a $500,000 Lamborghini, I can tell. Okay. To be fair, that Camry's probably got another 250,000 miles on it. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:24:18 Those things will go into the millennial, yeah. Okay, so I've got to ask, because I think we're here. This is a natural place to jump off. Why not the nicer car? Does it even matter to you with this net worth and where you are financially? It really doesn't, and knowing that vehicles go down in value, it just doesn't make sense to us to do it. What do you think when you're pulling up to the old stoplight at tulsa in tulsa oklahoma and some dude drives up in a gigantic truck that you know he's paying twelve hundred dollars a month what goes through your head when you look over at that dude i'm just grateful that i don't

Starting point is 01:24:55 have a car payment like that that was so kind i thought yeah i set you up i was like wow way to go okay what advice have you got to the younger version of you that's listening? So when my wife and I got married, we had, I think, close to $92,000 in debt. And we went through financial peace. We followed the baby steps. Like you said, they have kind of a tight wall. And we buckled down for two and a half years, got the debt paid off,

Starting point is 01:25:27 and then contributed to my company's 401K. They had a pretty good match, so just continually did that. So really just follow a plan. If you find a plan, follow it, and if you do it over a long period of of time it'll pay off and now you're a baby steps millionaire way to go man proud of you baby stepped right into it at 41 years old wow well this is why we do this just to remind you folks this is possible some of you are in

Starting point is 01:26:00 the middle of that two and a half year buckle down time right now. And David is telling you what your future looks like. That's pretty encouraging if you'll let it be. This is a Baby Steps Millionaires theme hour on the Ramsey Show. It's a Baby Steps Millionaires theme hour. Ken in Manchester, New Hampshire. Ken, what is your net worth? As of today, it's about $2.9 million. Good for you.

Starting point is 01:26:31 Give me a little breakdown by category. So I have an IRA rollover. It's worth about $1.7 million. We have money in our mutual fund that's about $244,000. SEP IRA is about $39,000. I have an inherited IRA, which is $29,000. My wife's IRA is $88,000, and we have about $155,000 in checking, and our house is about $600, good for you very good all right how old are you uh 59 very cool okay good and how much of this did you inherit obviously you got a 29,000 inherited ira what else uh that's it just that just that inherited ira and i'm guessing that

Starting point is 01:27:21 came after you were already a millionaire yes got that Got that a couple of years ago. Okay. Yeah. And what was your worst year of income during your working life and your best year? Uh, well, I was in the army, so my worst year was about 7,000 bucks and my best year was two 31. Okay, cool. What cool what was your career other than military and thanks for your service uh it i was an aircraft mechanic oh okay cool that's good all right and a four-year degree no no no just uh trade school after i got out of the army cool good for you okay and a great choice obviously very well done yes very well. What's your wife do? She's been staying home for most of the time. She worked a little bit while I was in school to support us.

Starting point is 01:28:13 So let me get this straight. A 59-year-old aircraft mechanic makes a quarter million dollars a year. At the end, yeah. that's where we are yeah i mean that's pretty impressive i mean just uh talking about our friend mike rowe in the trades right so exactly right cool very good very good so what advice would you give to uh people that want to be you when they grow up it's all about uh discipline saving discipline saving. Discipline saving, you know, and looking at it as more of a marathon than a sprint. And we never really let, you know, lifestyle creep affect us. Yeah, you've dumped money consistently for a long time. I can tell by these numbers into your retirement plans.

Starting point is 01:29:00 I have. It's advice I got from my father years and years ago. You know, no matter what you make, 10%, 15% goes, you know, he used to say, feed the pig. Yeah, feed the pig. That's a good word. I like you, Dad. Good word. What's the most expensive pair of blue jeans you or your wife ever bought? Oh, probably not me, but probably $100 for my wife. All that's good i'm glad i'm glad you're taking care of her and what do you drive i drive a 21 uh

Starting point is 01:29:34 chevy colorado and um my wife drives a bmw 21 bmw which model uh 330 ix nice very good you are taking good care of her good job of course three three million dollar net worth yeah she needs a beamer man well done that's good i like that and you're definitely a chevy colorado guy i can tell i love it very well done yeah yes and good car you you understand that you are like a case study template for America millionaires. You're like the, when we studied 10,000 of them, we found almost all of them are exactly like you. The wife gets the good car. He drives a junker and doesn't care what anybody thinks. You, you have zero care about what people think at a stoplight.

Starting point is 01:30:21 Exactly. I mean, my wife was always the, uh, ran the house and i was always the earner you know so um it was uh you know we've been married a long time and and how many years 38 nice good for you i can hear if you listen closely folks you can hear bob seger like a rock in the background that's what i'm ken is a rock isn't he no doubt no doubt okay hey man we appreciate you um you're a hero you prove america's great people like you are proof that this works i love it trent and taylor are with us in philadelphia what's your all's net worth going on dave 1.7 1.. And give me a little breakdown by category.

Starting point is 01:31:06 All right. We got $350K in an IRA or both of our IRAs combined, $600K in a brokerage account, $400K in cash, house equities around $300K, and we started from $529K for our future kid at $20K. Got it. Good. How old are y'all? 33 and 34. Whoa millionaires good for you and how much of this 1.7 million did you all inherit none of it zero and what was your best working year and worst working year of income uh i mean right right out of college, it was bad, 60, 70K. But we've been able to make,

Starting point is 01:31:51 you know, just by saying approval, we've been able to take some chances with our careers, and we're actually approaching the 500K mark this year. Cool. What do you all do? I'm an engineer, and my wife's a dentist oh great great i love it okay and you maximize both of those very very quickly so uh what was your gpa as an engineer not great uh like a two nine maybe something like that okay all right very good like shoes up for trees. Like, three sticks. Yeah. So what motivated you guys to do so well?

Starting point is 01:32:28 Because a lot of people, the engineers do a great job. A lot of dentists don't do a great job with their money. But you two have obviously been geniuses. Well done. What lines you up on this? I don't know. We've always been, we're very aligned and and how we spend we're just we're just very frugal people and uh even as our we've been married for four years but even before that

Starting point is 01:32:53 we're both i thought i was frugal but she makes fun of me for drinking folgers she calls me poop i've had some folgers before bro don't knock it i love it i love it i'm telling you because it's like two bucks cheaper at cosco golly y'all aren't well i didn't know there was a fight about folders or maxwell house you guys need something better to fight about wow that's great who's the most frugal this is a great argument yeah yeah she beats me i thought i didn't know I could find a woman that would beat me in that. What do you drive? So I knew you were going to ask that.

Starting point is 01:33:33 I'm a seasoned veteran in beaters. I've had a bunch of old Civics and Jeeps and whatever. I just sold my 08 Civic with 300 000 miles on it wow but uh i got i had a new i have a new truck now if they've got a baby on the way all right what'd you buy what kind of truck silverado yeah nice good car very good what's she drive he drives a beamer okay so if you guys were talking to a younger version of you can this still be done or is the american dream dead yeah absolutely you know i think i think it's a lot of just being in alignment i think it's you know just just us working together and putting it away and not

Starting point is 01:34:17 allowing lifestyle creep to get you know creep up on you is really helpful it puts you in four-wheel drive you know but you know with even with our increased income over like the past six years we're still living off 50 60k in expenses so we're we're putting away like 23 000 a month into this brokerage account so it's pretty awesome wow quarter million dollars a year of saving. Yeah. That adds up quick at the age of 34. Yeah. That's how you end up being a 33-year-old millionaire, man. That's pretty incredible.

Starting point is 01:34:53 So well done, guys. Y'all are rock stars, absolute heroes. So proud of you. So just to let you guys out there know, when we did the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America, 10,167 of them the white paper is in the back of my latest bestseller called baby steps millionaires if you want to read the details on the research it's airtight research the research methodology no questioning it if you disagree with it you're what's known as wrong okay so i mean it's it's a fact what we found was 79 of america's millionaires inherited precisely

Starting point is 01:35:27 zero another five percent inherited a small amount like five thousand bucks from granny that did not make them millionaires and another five percent inherited money after they were already millionaires so 89 of america's millionaires did not become millionaires because of inherited money. So don't let your crazy nutburger TikTok friend tell you that all the opportunity in America is gone. It's not. It's a Baby Steps Millionaires theme hour. Thanks for being with us, America. One thing we know about millionaires is they tell their money what to do

Starting point is 01:36:12 instead of wondering where it went. That's called a budget. It's called a plan. They make their money behave. Give every dollar an assignment, every dollar a name, every dollar a mission. That's why we named the world's best budgeting app, EveryDollar. You can download EveryDollar, tens of millions of people have, in the App Store or Google Play, or go to EveryDollar.com and get it for your desktop,

Starting point is 01:36:38 whatever you want. You can keep a pulse on your spending, and we will show you exactly how to walk through the baby steps, the fastest right way to become one of these baby steps millionaires. Heidi and Sean are in Cleveland. What's your all's net worth? Our net worth is $1.2 million. Excellent. Give me a little breakdown by category. So our house is worth $400,000. We have $845,000 in retirement and about $30,000 in cash. Excellent. Perfect. How old are you guys? I am 49 and Sean is 50. All right. Way to go. Good job. And how much of this 1.2 did you all inherit? We inherited about $32,000.

Starting point is 01:37:26 That was about 10 years ago from my aunt who had passed away and then inherited IRA, but that's it. Okay. So mathematically, did that cause you to become a millionaire? No, it did not. Okay. All right. And your best year of working income and worst year of working income? So our best year is probably this year. We're at $206,000

Starting point is 01:37:47 this year. And our worst was probably when we first started out around $70,000 to $80,000. We've been married for 22 years. Good, good. And your career, what do you all do? I'm a physical therapist and Sean works in higher education. He's an administrator in higher education. All right. Very good. So both of you have done postgraduate work. Correct. Yep. Okay. And what were your GPAs? So my GPA was a 3.9, and Sean's was a 3.6. Very good. Very good.

Starting point is 01:38:27 She's the smarter of the two. Well played, sir. Yeah, you just hit that out of the 22-year park. That's great. I like it. Good work. Good work. All right, so what do you tell people if they want to be you when they're 49 and they want to be a millionaire?

Starting point is 01:38:44 Can they still do it oh absolutely 100 percent um definitely staying out of debt um and living within your means as and following a budget and uh that is definitely i would say the keys uh to achieving millionaire status for sure and you need to invest. And invest. You have to invest. I mean, you know, 850 of your 1.2 is your retirement. Correct. So you proved that. I mean, you guys did it.

Starting point is 01:39:13 That was your lift right there, mathematically anyway. Yeah, yep. Great job. Great job. How early did you guys get started on investing? What were your ages? So I probably started when I was, when I first got out of school, like 25, 26, but didn't know what I was doing.

Starting point is 01:39:34 We probably got more savvy once we really started following your plan. In 2009, we had $48,000 worth of debt and then got out of the debt in 2011 and then started more regularly investing going towards the 15% and everything. So basically from zero to where we are is about 13 years. Correct. Wow. That's what I want people to hear. That's very doable. That gives you a lot of hope. So if you're listening and you're 50 and you think time has run out, 13 years later, you'd be 63 and be a millionaire if you follow the stuff that's it right there way to go y'all absolutely what do y'all drive um i drive a 2007 toyota sienna it's got over 200 000 miles on it and sean drives a 2011 toyota santa fe and that has 135000 miles on it. It is time for the upgrade.

Starting point is 01:40:26 We do need better cars. Y'all need better cars. I mean, really. Come on. I'm going to help the car companies today out. I'm just saying. But, wow. We do have one going off to college and then another two that are coming up, too.

Starting point is 01:40:41 So that's part of it. Yeah, you're just watching it, making it happen on 200 grand. You've got to watch what you're doing that's right well done y'all very very well done congratulations you're heroes i'm proud of you very very good david is in los angeles david what's your net worth my net worth is 1.1 million dollars very cool and give me a little breakdown on that. I've got $80,000 in cash and high-yield savings, $700,000 in individual stocks, $175,000 in an IRA, $30,000 in bonds, and $140,000 in my state retirement fund. Okay. No real estate? No real estate. Okay, cool. And your age? 54. Good, good. Okay. and how much of this did you inherit

Starting point is 01:41:28 two thousand dollars okay so that is not why you're a millionaire all right good not at all and uh your best year working income and worst year working income my best year is going to be this year at $120,000. My average income is $65,000, and my lowest income year was $20,000. Wow. Okay, cool. What do you do for a living? I'm a teacher. Ah, excellent. Excellent.

Starting point is 01:41:56 Very good. Okay, and so you have a degree, I'm assuming, in education? I have a degree in, a couple degrees in art. Oh, okay. Cool. Art teacher. All right, good. What was your GPA? education uh i have a degree in a couple degrees in art oh okay cool art teacher all right good what was your gpa i am proud to say you're the first person that has ever asked me that 3.91 and i'm still pissed i what didn't get a 4.0 yeah but obviously it didn't hold you back no it did not because i'm the first one that ever asked nobody cares is your point and i

Starting point is 01:42:27 don't disagree true exactly very good very good so can this still be done can an art teacher still become a millionaire in america even in california whoa yeah i was to say, David's the poster child for what we teach. An art teacher in California worth $1.2 million. Yeah, making $120K. I mean, high income ever. Yeah. Because we see TikToks every day of someone making over $100,000. What he's making, saying they can't live in California. David, what do you say to that?

Starting point is 01:43:03 You got to budget. You got to live on the budget, do the every dollar, and move at the speed of cash. Oh, there we go. That's a game. That's a game right there. I like it. So for those of you that didn't catch it, the last caller, or two callers ago, was an engineer, and this was a teacher. So the number one category of career category, people become millionaires in the study that we did, is engineer. Number two is accountant. Number three was teacher. Number four, business executive.

Starting point is 01:43:38 Number five, lawyer. Medical doctors didn't even make the top five. They're number six because they're notoriously bad of handling money so the art teacher has a higher probability of becoming based on the study that we did of becoming a millionaire than a doctor does there we go so uh you know teachers can't survive i know listen i i wouldn't mind if teachers made more money. I'm not mad about this. But teachers are process people.

Starting point is 01:44:08 Lawyers are process people. Engineers and accountants are process people. You follow a set of rules. You follow a process. You follow a plan. And you execute. And you don't reinvent everything. And even the art teacher didn't reinvent everything.

Starting point is 01:44:24 And they would have a tendency to. So I mean, be creative, right? Don't be creative. Follow a system, follow a process and plug into a proven process. And that's how people become millionaires. And this is the first one to five million dollars worth of net worth. It sounds a lot like the callers that we've had today. Most of their net worth is their retirement and they're paid for home with most of these callers today, and that's what we found in the study. It's nothing really fancy. Pay off a house and load your 401K and do it steadily and stay out of debt so that you can keep doing those two things.

Starting point is 01:45:01 And real quick, Dave, for everybody listening, that last couple, I think they had about $845,000 in retirement. I think they were in their early 50s. What's that look like 20 years from now for them? Just that chunk alone? Well, it'll double about every seven years. Right. If you've got a $1 million net worth in seven years, you'll have a two. In seven more years, you'll have a four. In seven more years. You'll have an eight. Yeah. So there's such a 21 year mark right there. Yeah. This is the Ramsey show.

Starting point is 01:45:36 Our scripture of the day, Romans 15 to our goal must be to empower others to do what is right and good for them and to bring them to a spiritual maturity. Amelia Earhart said, decide whether or not the goal is worth the risks involved. If it is, stop worrying. That's good. She was next level right there. Moxie, I'm just saying. Yeah, I like it.

Starting point is 01:46:02 Very good. This is a Baby Steps Millionaires theme hour. The reason we do this theme hour is to give you folks hope. Because when you hear how people that really are millionaires, not your broke brother-in-law with an opinion who votes wrong, okay, real millionaires, how they really did it, it shows you that you can do it that's called hope the show is all about giving people hope hope if you're struggling and hope that you can get there and that the struggle is worth it that you can push through and that's what we teach it's that

Starting point is 01:46:41 simple but there's a lot of lies out there about millionaires and about wealthy people. And, you know, well, they all inherited their money. Well, we've already told you they don't. Eighty nine percent of America's twenty six million millionaires did not inherit their money. Nine out of ten did not. That bodes well for us regular folk out here. By the way, I'm a millionaire and this is the second time I've done it. I'm so stupid I had to do it twice. So there you go. All wealthy people are crooks.

Starting point is 01:47:13 Nope. Crooks go to jail. People don't do business with crooks. People spread the word on crooks, and they lose their wealth. In the real world, crooks don't prosper long term. Now, sometimes they have a windfall, but then Mr. Bitcoin ends up in jail, didn't he? Okay, Mr. Crook. Okay, Kentucky Fried Chicken. Y'all know who I'm talking about. He's not Kentucky Fried, but he was just fried, right? And so, you know, this is the deal. Crooks don't make it long term.

Starting point is 01:47:49 They become poster children for how not to do it. All millionaires and wealthy people are famous people. Nope. 0.8%, less than 1% of America's millionaires are celebrity types, sports figures or music figures or Hollywood figures. Almost no one becomes a millionaire doing that stuff because almost no one makes a living doing that stuff as a percentage of our culture. That's why they're in the spotlight because they're a big deal, right?

Starting point is 01:48:23 They're rare. They're rare birds. They're birds for sure, some of them. They are all, all millionaires are rich, are super smart. They're all got a, of course they're rich. They all have a 4.2 GPA and they were valedictorian. No. No.

Starting point is 01:48:43 Matter of fact, the average is right around 3.0 gpa most of us that are millionaires are right around the 3.0 so listen if you got a 1.2 gpa because you played beer pong and you're not real smart you're probably not going to get there you haven't got enough gray matter to do it right but if you um it but you don't have to have you don't have to be some kind of Mensa to pull this off. As a matter of fact, Ken, you were telling me off air about a study that people that are in the two, that billionaires, a lot of them are in the two and a half, and valedictorians underperform. Yeah, high percentage of billionaires were less than 2.5, so somewhere between 2 to 2.5. And interestingly enough, valedictorians go on to just do slightly above average

Starting point is 01:49:28 as it relates to income. In other words, they aren't what they call world changers, people that are doing something really huge. And the reason is not knocking in any way valedictorians, but they are rule followers, so that's why they do very well in school. They follow the rules. They're test takers. That's right, but they do very well in school. They follow the rules. They're test takers. But they're, that's right.

Starting point is 01:49:45 But they are not world changers. And so this, I never color outside the line. That's it. And so it's why you don't see a very high percentage of valedictorians that are very wealthy. Do they do well? Yes, but they're not super wealthy, but it's not a prerequisite that you'd be the smartest person in your class to become successful.

Starting point is 01:50:04 Hello. Yeah. Think about this people it's important this this is a hope giving message if you think about it joe and ashley what are your in greenville south carolina what's your net worth 1.1 million dollars 1.1 i'm gonna get you to speak straight into your phone you sound like you're in a barrel what's your network i mean what's your breakdown of that 1.1 um hey dave 400 000 is paid for house 640 000 is in retirement and other mutual fund investment 60 000 is in cash and savings and we've got a whopping 9 000 in cars love it okay and how old are you two we're 35 whoa young millionaires good job and how much of this 1.1 did you all inherit about 74 000 cool okay did you was that early and it caused you to become a millionaire or is it mathematically did not cause you to be millionaires

Starting point is 01:51:01 no we were well on the way beforehand. It happened a couple years ago. Okay. All right. So, again, it stands up to what we were just talking about. All right. So your income, your best year and your worst year working income? We were about $130,000 when we first got married,

Starting point is 01:51:19 and our income now is about $270,000. Excellent. What do you all do for a living? So I'm an engineer by trade, but I'm actually going to be going out on my own and building decks soon. And Ashley is an IT account manager. Very neat. Okay, there it is again. All right, good, good, good.

Starting point is 01:51:38 What was your net worth? I'm sorry, your GPA? I was three. Yeah, your GPA. I was 3. Yeah, I was. Sorry, mine was 3.85. And I think Joe's was 3.31. Okay. All right.

Starting point is 01:51:55 So we know how that worked. Good job, you two. Good job. Well done, man. You're young millionaires. What's the secret to being a millionaire by the time you're 35 in America? You know, we did the whole baby step process starting nine years ago. We took financial peace. We did everything you said to do. We actually have coordinated four classes since

Starting point is 01:52:19 then. We joined for the debt-free stream in 2021. And so we really just did what you told us to do, and we did it together and consistently. We pledged every dollar every month for the last nine years while being diligent at our jobs and being content in our life. Wow. Sounds boring. It's fun. $9,000 worth of cars. What do you two drive?

Starting point is 01:52:54 So this is funny, Dave. When we came for our debt-free scream, we talked about the cars, and you told me to retire old Carla and get something new. And it's some of the only advice that I haven't followed. She's got 388,000 miles. It's a Honda Accord. Wow. And Ashley's driving a Toyota RAV4 with about 160 on it. Wow.

Starting point is 01:53:11 You know, I think at this point, Joe, you should drive it until the thing dies, literally, on the road. That's kind of hard. And then call AAA or whoever you got, and then just kind of bury it. I'd keep going now. That's so high. Got to get to half a million, right? At least $100,000.

Starting point is 01:53:28 Let's go for it. Why not? Wow. Good job, you two. That's awesome. Y'all are heroes, man. 35-year-old millionaires. I'm so proud of y'all.

Starting point is 01:53:37 Way to go. That is phenomenal, Dave. Very, very, very well done. Well, Ken, that's it. I mean, none of these people were $20 million. They were all i mean the highest one was three million that's right and so one uh two nine one seven one two one one and one one yeah well some of them just barely millionaires but some very young ones 32 and 35 today well joe

Starting point is 01:53:57 and ashley have i think they said over 600 000 in retirement you and i were just talking in the last segment they keep contributing to that that's going to add up to be a lot of dough when they're 70. I mean, you understand that if their stuff just continues to grow at around a 10% rate between their home and their retirement and that kind of stuff, that they're going to be worth $20, $30 million. That's crazy. That's, I mean, because you just take the normal math and watch it compound. Oh my gosh.

Starting point is 01:54:22 It's incredible. And they don't have to drive junk cars to do that, by the way. They don't. But I'll tell you what's really fun is to see that they've got the money to go out and buy nicer cars, and they're the ones that are set up to be multi-multi-millionaires. And we've got TikTokers bragging about having $1,200 car payments. Well, that's why one's on TikTok and one's a millionaire.

Starting point is 01:54:43 They're driving a Honda with 388,000 miles. 388,000 miles. Hey, guys, this is how you really do it. Oh, that's great. You know, you can try to dispute this, but you'd just be know it's known as wrong. I mean, I've been doing this for 30 years and watching people do this over and over and over again. This is how it's done. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books.

Starting point is 01:55:05 We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey folks, Dave Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind, and that's EveryDollar. The EveryDollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with EveryDollar for free right now.

Starting point is 01:56:02 Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash every dollar and download the app today. That's RamseySolutions.com slash every dollar.

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