The Ramsey Show - Wealth Doesn't Happen By Accident

Episode Date: July 31, 2026

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fair One's Credit Union Studio. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshot next to me. Rachel Cruz, we're taking calls about your life and your money for the next hour or so. So hop in on the phone lines where John is there from Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Hey, John, you're up on the line. Hi, ladies. I would like to introduce myself real quick. I am the president of the First National Bank of the Perpetually Screwed. I am married to the CEO of the First National Bank of the Perpetually Screwed. And let me explain why I say that. So I found out maybe a few months ago we've loaned out maybe $45,000 to three people. Oh, okay.

Now I get it. You're the bank. Okay. I was like, where is he going with this? How did you find out later that you loaned $45,000? Were you loaning money without telling your wife? wife and she doing the same? No, she did it to us. And now I said yes to two of these people, and it was 18,000. Who were these people? So one is our father-in-law. One is a friend who's a

teacher who doesn't get paid in the summer, and then another is a close family friend, and I did not authorize the third. And so now we're about $40,000 to $45,000 of our emergency fund is loaned out. Okay. And now we've hit a financial snag of our own and we need that money. I don't know what to do. Yes, we are in couples counseling about this and other things. But we, I don't know what we need to do aside from maybe rice and beans until this

stuff gets paid back for maybe five to seven years. Oh, gosh. What is the solution here? Because we need some of this money now. And yeah, how much do you guys make in here? It's about I'm I'm around 69 and she's around maybe 80. Okay, that's good. And, well, so I was supposed to make 10,000 more.

And then my company cut my overtime. That was kind of the cushion of this fall. And so I just, I'm kind of stuck here. We need this money now. What happened that caused you to need this money right now? Yeah, because just losing overtime, doesn't feel like enough of a... We've had some home expenses pop up.

Like what? But I know it's going to sound really kind of, you know, it's not dramatic, but we're building a pole. And the patio is also, turns out, has dry rotted and needs to be replaced. And so we had money set aside for this, but now it's just overages out of the wazoo. And so I'm just like... How much money are the... Overage is, John. How much are they? It's maybe, as of last night, it's about 15,000.

Okay. And how much was your emergency fund total before the 45,000 was spent? So the emergency fund, I think, is gone. I think I'm not really the one who does the books in the family. You think it's gone? I think the emergency fund is gone. Okay. So they're right there. Let's out right there because that's the problem in all of this. There's a lot of individual things that we could point out. But I think the main problem that at least I'm seeing Rachel is there's kind of a lackadaisicalness about the money. You don't even know how much was in the fund, but you were okay. You okayed $38,000 of loans and didn't even know how much was there to begin with. And then you're looking up going, well, hold on. I'm just going by what you said. And then

you're saying, we're building a pool in the midst of this. without an emergency fund, or at least we don't know how much was in the emergency fund. So this points to just what I'm just going to call, there's no intentionality here. It's almost like you guys are doing pretty well. You're making $150,000 a year. You've got a cushion and now we can just kind of do whatever we want. And I think that's kind of what's taken place. Yeah.

You know? And I thought there was still, granted, I knew there was more than 8. $18,000 in the emergency fund. And you probably felt, but it was vibes. I'm saying it was gone on vibes because it was like, yeah, there's probably more than that. We can go ahead and do this. And the way we teach here is there's so much power and knowing exactly how much money you have in assigning, and this is how I'm going to spend it, and this is where it's going to go.

And we're thinking about it ahead of time. Now what's happened, so let's fast forward to the loans. What's happened here, and this is a separate issue, we've taken money and we've loaned it to family and friends, which is loaning is not really an active generosity because it's not a give, right? It's giving is, I don't expect anything in return. I'm giving this to you. This wasn't an active generosity. This was an act of a bank, which you called that out. And now you're on the hook. And unfortunately, if you push on your family and friends to give you this money back, maybe before they expected to, maybe before they can so that you can keep doing this pool, it is going to have an

effect. Yeah. I mean, that's part of the risk of when you go into debt. And you borrow or you're the lender to people in your life because, yeah, this happens. Borrow or slave to the lender. Yeah, absolutely. And we have had the conversation now where I'm like, there is a reason banks would not give these people money and they have to money. Yeah. Seriously, it's a great point. So that is why I say I'm the president of the First National Bank of the Perpetually screwed.

Well, you learned a lesson. These people could not qualify for bank loans. Yeah. So what's going to have to happen, John, is for, I mean, honestly, what I would do out of just my sanity is I'm like, I wouldn't expect this money back. To your point. And you said seven to eight years, you threw out like a number of years of what you expect. I would not hold on to that for eight years. Okay. So this is what we would call a massive stupid tax. If they end up writing you a check later in life, then fine. But I would move about my life. I would say that was so stupid that we did that. And now we have to figure out how to find. $15,000 to cash flow a home project that we started with no money, right? Extra. Safety net wise. So we got to learn that lesson too, John, that when you have no margin, you know, even if you had $20,000, that's all you had and you allocated $20,000 something, you still don't have enough money to do the project. You don't need to spend all of your,

all of your money on one thing. And so I would look to say, hey, we're going to have to pause everything for now. And I mean, I would scrape together and find, you know, 3,000, 4,000 a month of whatever you can to be cash flowing your way through the debt construction and the projects that you have going on. But I would not be holding my breath for your family or friends to pay you back into your point, Jade. I wouldn't originally go to them either because that's going to, yeah, I mean, like, you could have a right to. You could. Yeah, but it's not going to help the relationship.

No, I mean, you're done at that point. This whole thing makes me, I've heard your dad, Dave Ramsey, quote this scripture a lot. And it's so true. It says, suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won't you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? It is. Yes. That's just wisdom.

That's Luke 1428 for anyone who's interested. And that's so much of what we teach, guys, budgeting and just sitting down and knowing where every single dollar is going. otherwise you'll wonder where it went, right? And that's exactly what's happened to John here is they make good money, $150,000 a year. And something so slight as I no longer get overtime. And I've lent out some money and I started a tower or a pool without counting the cost. And that's why, gosh, guys, if I don't tell you anything else, budgeting is so, so important, knowing where every dollar goes. So, so important.

The crux of what we teach. I appreciate your humor, though, through the pain. I do too. I appreciate your attitude. Let me tell you what I get asked all the time. When should I get term life insurance? How much do I need? Is it affordable? Those are the right questions to be asking. So let's take a quick review. The fact is term life isn't a baby step. So if anyone is dependent on your income, you need to have 10 to 12 times your income in life insurance. Now, and most people are surprised by how affordable term life really is. Even if you're not in perfect health. Look, I understand the hesitation. since most insurance companies make it more of a hassle than it needs to be. Not at Zander Insurance. They're not an insurance company. They're a broker that works for you.

That means they'll shop and compare the top-term life companies to find the most competitive options on the coverage for your family. For almost 30 years, I've recommended Zander for straight answers, competitive rates, and coverage that actually protects your family. Call 800-356-42-82 or go to Xander.com for a quick and easy quote. That's zander.com. All righty, back to the phone lines where we have Christy in Providence, Rhode Island. Hey, Christy, how can Rachel and I help today?

Hi. I was just hoping to have any tips or tricks and help working through the anxiety of not having any money while we pay off a debt. Like, I know we're supposed to put as much money as we possibly can towards paying off those debt. But it just fills me in with anxiety to take my accounts down to, like, just a couple of dollars in the bank until the next payday. Okay. Can I tell you something? Number one, I love this question, and I'm so glad you called in because I think this is something that gets overlooked a lot. and because of that, it can cause a lot of heartache and pain.

And, Christy, you are dealing with something that I, myself and my husband, Sam, dealt with, first off. Number one mistake, Rachel, is people forget to budget for a cushion. They budget every dollar and they're like, yes, I did it, zero-based budget, and everything's going to debt and minimum payments. And they forget to put a line item in the budget of, you know, it's a little bit different for everybody, but let's just say $100 that you just leave in there so that in case something happens that you forgot about.

you're not at zero. Your bank account should never be at zero. It should never be at $3. Yeah, zero-based budgeting does not mean zero in your bank account. So you can have a good cushion in there. Yes. So when those things come up, it doesn't take you into the negative. Yeah.

That's what you were saying. Yes. A subscription is bound to come out that you forgot about, right? And then next thing you know, you're overdrawn. And then it just creates this cycle to your point of stress and anxiety. So that's thing number one. Thing number two, I want to make sure, did you do baby step one first? or did you just skip it and go to Baby Step 2?

So, yeah, I did Baby Step 1 and didn't really stop that. Like, I have $100 of my paycheck going into a separate savings account that I don't even know how to get money out of that. Help me understand. Are you still doing that? Yes. So we saved $1,000. And then for my paycheck is automatically deposited and I separated into a checking account. and then that savings account.

So $100 goes into that savings account. Okay. Just as extra cushion? Yes. Okay. What I would do is I would cut off the $100 going to a separate account because the account that you have there, that's baby stuff. When you want that money separate from your checking account, I think it's very important

to have that. And then on your budget that's associated with your checking account, you want to delineate, okay, I have $1,000 every month in my budget, my every dollar budget. that is aligned to a cushion. And the reason for keeping it in that checking account is because if something happens, then it's there. You don't want to have to move it from someplace else because the transaction now has already happened. Maybe you overdrew.

Maybe the card was declined, right? That's why you want to have it in the checking account. Does that make sense? Yes, yes. Christy, how much debt do you guys have to pay off? Right now it's around $200,000. Is that consumer debt? We have about three credit cards.

that we still have to pay. I have a student loan and we have a HELOC. Oh, okay. How much is the HELOC? It's around 30,000. How much do you guys make a year? Close to 200. Oh. Okay. So you're doing that right by including the HELOC in your debt snowball. How quickly have you projected that you'll pay off this $200,000 in debt? So I'm hoping to have the credit card.

that paid within the next two years. Is that based on a calculation or is that based off a vibe? It's based off a vibe. Okay. Christy, you're the best. You can pick up on Christy. Well, Christy, you're my people, man, because the things that you're doing, I recognize them because I've done these things.

And so many people listening are doing exactly what you're doing, which is why I love your questions and I love the things that you're bringing up. Do you know what will give you so much peace, Christy? and so much motivation is if you sit down. Well, calculate it out. Calculate it at your current income. Okay, $200,000 a year, minimum payments plus extra payments. Use one of our calculators.

You can go to ramsusolutions.com. Maybe they'll put it in the lower third on the screen here. But do the calculation based as things are today. And then once you see that number, once you see, okay, 24 months, maybe that's the time period. You can then, now you have options. You can decide, am I happy with that? Am I not happy with that? And if you're not happy with it, then you can start to brainstorm.

Okay, what would make me happy? I want to do it in 18 months. Okay, how much money do I need to fill that gap? Right? And now you're reverse engineering it to have control and do what you want to do. Oh, I cannot tell you. That will give you so much peace and so much hope and so much motivation. And a lot of times, Christy, it's like a $500 difference a month could really move the needle.

Change the game. That was a buck. Chris, you guys, what do you bring home every month? Probably around 12,000-ish? Yeah, yeah, yes. Okay, because I'm just... Okay. I mean, I just said quick math, and I was like, okay, let's...

12-5, something like that. Yeah, what could you, you know, if you could pay $4,000 every single month, that'll take you four years. If you could pay $8,000 a month, that's two years, right? So you just kind of like start looking at the numbers and saying what has to be true, for us to be done completely in two years. What would that look like? And if $8,000 feels like there's no way we can live, you know, on the rest, then what do you have to do to get $8,000?

Is that an extra thousand a month that you guys work extra? Like, you start to create this pattern, but you know it's done in two years or whatever timeline you pick. And I think that lowers the anxiety because there's actually facts in front of you in numbers that you see. And Christy, just remember this too. we teach this in the baby steps. If something comes up during your debt snowball journey

and you have to have tires and some plumbing fixed in your home or whatever it is and it's more than a thousand, you just pause everything. And instead of that eight grand going to debt, maybe two grand of it stays with you and you fix the emergency. And then you go back to it. You know what I mean? Like there's some ebb and flow to this to life that is very real,

but that doesn't have to cause you to lose. progress or lose sleep at night because you have anxiety about the unknown. That's a really good point. I like what Rachel said there. You guys have a really great income. And therefore, if you did need to cash flow it, you actually have a nice income to pull from. Some folks, you know, if you're making 60 grand, it feels even scarier for them because the cushion, the amount of extra margin is far less generally. And so I want to encourage you that you're really in a good position to work the plan and work it to the fullness. And you can really trust that it's going to work for you. And all of this that Rachel and I have said, we haven't talked about side hustles.

We haven't talked about overtime. None of that. And all of those options are available to you. Do you have kids? Okay. I have kids and two are still in the house, but I want them gone. They won't go anywhere. Oh, they're grown, grown adults in the house. Okay, got you. But the good news is, you know, you're not in that phase. No child care. Yeah. Yeah. And so you've got, how old are you? 56. Okay. Do you have money in retirement, Christy, you and your husband?

Yes. My husband and I both have 401Ks and I have a pension. Okay, good, good, good. So then, yeah, this just becomes, and I'm stealing this from Dr. John Deloney, how do you want your life to feel? Right? How do you want it to feel when you come home? How do you want it to feel when you're on vacation? How do you want it to feel when you're laying in bed at night and everything's quiet?

And having this debt paid off and going quickly about it, I think, is really going to give you that feeling that you want. You've worked hard for 56 years. You want to feel the piece that should be associated with the hard work that you've done. Yeah, it's just, it's really just getting in that mindset. And then, you know, for example, my sister the other day called me and said her electricity got shut off because she forgot to pay it. And I'm like, okay, can you afford to get it back on? And she could afford maybe half. And since we had the money, I'm like, All right. I'll give you the money, but it's also money I don't think I'll ever see you yet.

Yeah. So that's what makes me anxious. If I had taken my checking account down to, say, $100, I wouldn't have had that money to give her to pay that. And I know it's not my responsibility to take care of the people. Sure, no. But when your sister's lights get shut off, I hear that. You want to help. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I get that. So that's why, again, there's always buffering your checking account, everyone here, Jade, loud and clear. There's always going to be buffer, okay? And then you also have your $1,000. You need an operating. expenses knowing that there's a revolving door in your life and your checking account does not need to be at zero. Never. Yeah. And even if it needs to be more than 100 bucks, I don't care what it is. But it's like, okay, here's enough that makes sure it's the catch-all for everything

so we don't overdraft. And then again, you guys, your $1,000 is separate. And if something comes up, you pull out of that if it's an emergency. Yes. Let me tell you something I see happen way too often. People fall behind on their bills and they wait. They hope it will work itself out. It That's why I recommend Guardian Litigation Group. Here's the deal. If you've missed payments, collectors are calling, or if you're getting letters threatening legal action, that's not something to ignore. That's the moment to deal with it. Because when you do nothing, it escalates.

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It's about dealing with the problem before it gets worse. Go to Guardianlit.com slash Ramsey today. That's Guardian, L-I-T-com slash Ramsey today. Attorney advertising. Results may vary and no specific outcomes guaranteed. Okay, Rachel, before we move on, I want to go back to the cushion discussion right quick, because I think that is something that does get missed sometimes because it's not like a core part of teaching. Like it's kind of just an assumption, but some of us are still learning. And so I want to hit that for just a second.

So if you're in Baby Step 2 and you're thinking, okay, Jade, how much cushion? Because you and Rachel didn't tell me how much. Here are some things I want you to think about in determining your cushion because it is going to be a little different for everybody. Yes. It depends on how much you make, all of those things. Here are some things that will help guide you in the right direction. Number one, in Baby Step 2, this is not an emergency fund. Okay, the purpose of the cushion is not to be an emergency fund.

So you already had the $1,000 saved. So if you were thinking of getting up into that range, you were wrong. This is just a cushion, okay? Number two, a good way to think about it is this money is here in case something happens that I didn't expect in my budget. What's the worst could happen? your Amazon subscription for $120 comes out, right? Yep, yep.

Or grandma's birthday, right? All of those things are kind of under the $150 range. Yes, yes. So that's a fair place to start in your life. Look at what's really something that I could honestly forget that I didn't budget for. And you'll find that it's usually pretty low dollar things. Totally, totally. The third thing you need to consider is that money then is going to, if you don't touch the cushion,

it's going to accumulate over time. So you could look up and go, oh gosh, I have $400 here or I have $800 here. That's a lot of money. At some point, you do need to drain it back down. Move it over to savings or move it toward the debt, whatever baby step you're on, and keep it at the established cushion amount. So what I did, once I learned I needed a cushion, is if I got to the end of the month and I didn't touch the cushion, I would move it on to the debt.

And then the next month it's built in there again. Okay, so don't let this thing accumulate. And then you're like, great, now we have money to. go, you know, on that cruise. And then the third thing I just want to say, this is on your honor. Okay, this is back when we're in elementary school, the teachers would say that when you take a test, you're on your honor. Yeah. We're not trying to police you. We want you to get out of debt and we want you to do it quickly. So that's why we're saying this. It's not to like shake a finger at you, but also don't hold $800 in your account. When you're trying to get out of debt,

you need that to put towards the debt. So that was my teaching. That's it. Do you have anything to add? No, I think it's great. think covering the basics again for people as they're in it because a lot of you are on baby step two getting out of debt and so you're in the middle of all of this so these are important things to remember because if you don't it derails you and if something does come up you're like well crap we're negative 75 and then that's just more demotivating than anything so keep keep yourself in check with all of it so that you can keep throwing good money at the debt to get out as quickly as possible and if you're beyond baby step two it's not nearly as big of a in position yeah it's not as big of a deal

Okay, great. That being said, guys, we answer a lot of questions here on the show, whether it's about cushions, whether it's about investing, whatever it is. And the truth is we do wish that we could get to every question that you guys have on the show, but we can't. So if you do have a question and you want an answer for your situation, just go over to our website and use the Ask Ramsey tool. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool. It's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. You'll get an answer the exact same way that we'd answer it right here on the show. So ask your question today at Ramsey Solutions.com. or go ahead and click that link of the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All righty. We got Chris, who's in Iowa City, Iowa. Hey, Chris. How can Rachel and I help? Hi. I'm looking for some advice.

I was very much raised on the Dave Ramsey principals. My dad was very strong. He actually taught a class using those books. I was homeschooled. God bless you, Chris. My husband and I, my husband and I, we, got together eight years ago. We are both previously divorced. He's been divorced twice. And just shortly like maybe two or three months after we moved in together, he got laid off of his job and hasn't

had a job since. That was eight years ago. He does some, yeah, he does some small odd jobs, like maybe two landscape jobs a year, no removal in the winter, but nothing solid. I clean houses for a living, like at least four or five houses a week. We do manage a property in our town, but that's $800 a month. It barely covers his child's support because he has children from a previous marriage. Our house is halfway paid off, but it's a house that I had for my previous marriage. And like, I just took over the payments and I used my child's support that I received to pay off, like the house payment every month and like we're just barely scraping by.

Chris, what does he do during the day? sits at home on his phone. He like, his excuse is very much a religious thing. Like he says that God bless me to be able to work. So he can be available to the church ministry. Like he volunteers for like church basketball games, sets up chairs at church. He's gone on a few missions trip. and like people donated money towards that,

but like he doesn't provide hardly any money to our household. Sounds like a 19-year-old. How old are you guys? That's another issue. He's 52 and I am 32. So I feel like I made a very bad choice in the beginning. Are you married? Yes.

You are. When did y'all get married? You said you... Eight years ago. So he hasn't worked any of the years you've been together. Not as wild. I thought it was a fluke at the beginning. He lost his job and he blamed it on. He was going through a very messy divorce. Okay. So Chris, what are you going to? Chris, it's been eight years. Yeah, that's a long time. So you've been putting up with this for eight years. What do you think you should do?

I feel like I'm very much in a trauma bond relationship. Like my parents, my pastor, I've gone to counseling with my pastor and my husband. And I'm like, they're all like, you know, if he's not going to change, like, what else can we do? What do they suggest? No, no, no. What do they suggest when you're in counseling? Either we separate and I'd be better off or he needs to get a job. And but. So what you're going to have to make a decision.

So, Chris, you have to make a decision. You're either going to live with this for the next 30 years. Yeah, because Rachel and I are going to tell you the same thing your counselors told you. Yeah. So you're either going to live with. with it for 30 years or you make a different decision. There's an ultimatum. And I hate to like dangle that like you're, but it's been eight years. Right. He sounds like a 19 year old who's in home from college for the summer. Like, do you know what he mean? And let me add this. Let me add this to what

Rachel said, because this is the crux of all of this. You call, you went to the counselors, they told you one thing. And you said, ah, I'm not ready to do it. Then you're coming to us saying the same thing. We're telling you the same thing. If you choose to stay, you can't complain anymore because you've chosen it at that point. So for these eight years, I don't know when the first time was a counselor, that a counselor told you, hey, this is your choice. But you made it and then you made it the next year. And then you made it the next year and the next year.

He's not going to change. He's not going to change. And I'm always, I'm very cautious to ever like, you know, throw out. Like you have to, you know, divorce him unless you're, you're physically in danger or something, right? Because, I mean, we're going to get off this call in about four minutes. And this is your life. Like you have to, you know, you have to make these decisions. But you need to know, Chris, like it's, you, you will choose this every single day for the rest of your life.

And he's not honoring you. If you want to talk scripture, it says, yeah, one who takes care of his own, who doesn't take care of his own household is worse than an unbeliever. And so he's not doing any level. It's so interesting that this is his position because I feel like Jade two shows ago, we have. had to untangle another level where it was like that she's forced to stay home and she has no rights like do you know what I'm saying it's so funny that like you get both into the spectrum with people um so yeah and I would and I would assume Chris the mayor I mean I think this is probably one small area of a marriage that probably hasn't existed for a really long time right yeah yeah no

there's there's many layers and he's unwilling to change yeah yeah and there was other like anger management and things that he's gone through. And some of that has gotten better, but it's the finances that really keep pulling me back. And then we have like savings from like our tax return or like we sold a vehicle. Like we bought one and sold it for more than we bought it for. So we have some savings, but then he has it in a safe and says, no, we're not going to use that for emergencies.

And that's the thing. But then he'll turn around and ask me for $20. But you're focused on the wrong thing. You're focused. It's very easy to get distracted on things like the money in the safe or, you know, how many houses you're cleaning per week. But the big issue is this is a marriage, a foundational marriage issue.

And you have to decide, am I going to continue on the ride or am I not? As a dad of young kids, I'm starting to think a lot more about the world they're growing up in and how I'll help them make sense of it as they get older. And that's why I like World Watch,

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Because when my kids are old enough, I want them informed, not overwhelmed. And right now, you can get a 30-day free trial. Just go to worldwatch.com news slash Ramsey or use promo code Ramsey to get started. That's worldwatch. Dot news slash Ramsey. All right, back to the phone lines we go where we have Kelly, who's in Detroit, Michigan. Hey, Kelly, happy to have you on the show. Hi, thank you so much for having me.

How can we help? I am calm because I find myself in a unique situation. My husband has just been promoted to a level at work where he is eligible for a company car. Okay. However, there is a caveat with that that since he has a spouse, the spouse has to either buy or leave a new car manufactured by that company every four years in order for him to stay enrolled in the program. I currently have a 14-year-old Corolla that has been paid off since day one, and the idea of this makes me very nervous, but I'm not sure if it would actually be better financially or not. That's very strange because if your car is paid off and they're saying you can have one for free, but the spouse has to lease one, then it's a breakie, like it's no longer a deal. Correct. And he doesn't get the car from the company. He just has access to it.

it. So heaven forbid if he's fired or if he leaves, then he gives it back. You have a lease. Yes. So what do you think? We both need new cars, and I can recognize that. We're both driving old cars that are coming to the end of their life cycle. But I don't know that buying or leasing a new car every four years is the answer. Even if his car insurance gas, everything is completely covered, I'm having a hard time stomaching the thought of buying a new car every four years. Yeah, I would look at the loss that if you bought a new car this year, just say 2026, and you sell it in 2030, well, I guess you can't really, but like on an average of what a car

depreciates. And you could see that's the amount of money that's wasted. Does that cover gas and if your husband operated his own vehicle, right? And I think you come out ahead that way. How much do you guys make a year? About 300,000 combined. Okay. What's your net worth? Oh, good question. I'd say maybe we don't have any debt if that helps. Okay, yeah, around $600,000. Okay, good for you guys. Generously. Yeah, generously we'll round up. Yeah, I don't think it's going to be worth it financially when you look at the money you would lose on a new car every four years. I think you would be probably, I haven't run the number, so you need to. I think you'd be far better off with him just having his own vehicle.

100%, because I just want to make sure I'm understanding this. He gets a company car, but the only way he gets the company car is if you lease a car every four years or buy every four years. Correct. Okay. And you currently, you're like, my car is paid for in cash. So now you guys would be going back into debt to get a car. Because now you're, does that make sense? Yes.

I don't know if we would end up going into debt. We've also talked about just leasing the absolute cheapest option. But leasing is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle. And we can break that down if you need us to. But leasing is no better than finding. financing. Yeah, but even if you bought the new car in cash and you guys just cash flowed a new car, again, when you sell it, the depreciation. The depreciation, I think will be more than what it would take if he just kept his car, right? Because you could go buy, you know, a $20,000 used car and

replace your 14-year-old car and be done for another, you know, eight years, right? Yeah. And then you have to think about what you want because that plays heavily into this. If you just said, if this were off the table and you said, hey, let's buy a new car. What would you choose? That's going to be a completely different choice than saying, okay, I have to knowing now that I have to do this every four years, I need to pay for it up front, like, right? Now you're going to choose a, you know, a forward focus because you can pay for it in cash. And you know what I'm saying? So it just, I feel like the tail is wagging the dog on this. And I think that you guys should be in control of your money. So I would lean towards, I think I would lean towards not because it's causing you, it's forcing you down a pathway.

Okay. I agree. I'm trying so hard to be respectful of his progress and excited and supportive. And I know how badly he wants to participate. So that's a huge factor. But I've been saying everything that you both have. Yeah. What about after four years? So can you opt out? Like, let's pretend, okay, so today you did say we're at the point where I actually do need a car. What if you participated and said, okay, well, we're going to take cash and I'll, I'll buy my new car. You'll get your company car. We'll do that for four years. And then after that, you reevaluate. And if you decide it no longer works for you guys, that feels like that could be an option. That's true. Yeah, I agree with that. I think it just kind of goes back to what you said about not

actually having a choice then, because if I could pick anything in the world, I know what I would get. And it may not be on my list of options. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I think either way, Kelly, I don't think anything is going to take you guys into bankruptcy or something. Do you mean like it's a car and everything will be done with cash if you end up going either route? And so that's the only thing I would say. You're not quite at the million dollar net worth where we'd say, yes, go buy a new car again. We're just talked about all the depreciation.

Is it worth it? Is it not? I don't think it's going to be the end of the world. I just don't like someone dictating. It's part of being out of debt. It's like the autonomy. I get to decide things. And it's one thing if he just gets accompanied.

any car and they give him one and he didn't get like it but it is what it is that's fine but for you then to turn around and have to go purchase something that you don't really even want in the first place um that would be that would be tough so again i don't think either way is going to be a massive issue i just think it's a stupid program yeah to make you do it's it's it's a forced behavior you have to choose if it works for you guys or not uh but that's a choice i mean there's not a wrong choice i don't think at this point uh per se i would not lease it though kelly no definitely Definitely don't leave. If you're going to debt, we're a problem. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Thank you for the call. Good question. Let's go to Andrea, Andrea, and Manhattan, New York. Tell me how to say it. It doesn't matter. I'm open. Let's go. What about Andy? Can I call you Andy?

Yes, ma'am. All right. Let's go with that. Perfect. How can we help? Thank you for taking my call. My question is, I have to listening to your show for a while. Does my husband and I have sufficient life insurance? Oh, good question. How much do you guys make a year? $400,000. Okay. How much life insurance do you guys have? He has total with his work life insurance and then the private policy, he has a million. And the same for me. I also have a million. Okay. Okay. Yeah, we say four to five times your annual income.

Is that right? Okay. No, for stay at homes. For stay at homes. That's right. For working. 10 to 12. 10 to 12 if you're bringing it home. We need more. I would double it then. Gosh, Jade. Thank you. It'd be like that. Did we make it clear for you?

Do we need to say it again just in case? Can you say it again? Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. That's not. The answer is not enough. No, because that would mean that you make $400,000 or that you make $100,000 a year, right? 10 times that would be a million bucks.

So he makes $400,000. If you did $10 to $12 that. Household's income is $400. I do not stay home. I work. He works, collective health income is $400. So I would split that out And I would just multiply

Both of your incomes by 10 If you're both working It's 10 to 12 times your income If you are a stay-at-home parent It's 4 to 5 It's kind of half of that is the way we look at it But yeah 10 to 12 times for you guys

So yeah It would probably need to be double So 2 million for you Two million for him How old are you guys? 49 Okay Are y'all in pretty good health?

Yes Okay I would do it as soon as possible because term life, it's pretty inexpensive. And you guys, I mean, at a 50, you're getting up there where it starts to kind of, you know, you'll pay a little bit more. But I would do it before I'm 54, 55, as quickly as possible. And calls and her insurance, they're going to help, you know, you shop out the best ones for you

and just look for a 15 or 20 year level term. And also just know, Andy, that the point of this is to get to the point of self-insuring, you don't need to continue. So ideally, you would only have to take out one term of this. And if you continue doing the baby steps the way we teach, you could drop it in 15 or 20 years because you've built your nest eggs so that you don't need to rely on it anymore, which is really the whole purpose of building wealth through the baby steps is you have that security that, man, we've built so much wealth that we're good. Come what may. Come what may. All right, guys, remember that Zander Insurance. That's where you want to go. They're going to help you shop all of the different insurances that are out there.

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taking your calls about life and money. We've got Omar in San Antonio, Texas on the line. Hey, Omar. Hello. What's up? Well, I've been listening to you guys for close to a year now. There's little clips here and there on Facebook and YouTube. And lately I finally got a decent paying job

and I started looking more and more into the show, watching longer videos and stuff like that. I love that. And yeah, I guess now I'm ready for a little more guidance on what to do with my position I'm in right now. Okay, so what's going on? So I'm 22. I finally got a decent job, like I said, I'm taking home about $85,000 a year.

My fiance, she's bringing home about $20,000, $24,000 a year. And we got about $85,000, more or less in debt right now. How much? About $85,000. $85,000. What does the $85,000 consist of? $46,000 in a truck. Oh, $15,000.

Yeah, I rolled over negative equity, and I was. I was, yeah. Okay, terrible, yeah. 15,000 on a boat that I do make money off of, as I'm a charter captain on the sides. 18,000 on my RV. Lots of vehicles here, sir. A lot of toys, Omar.

We know what kind of guy you are. I gave up rent to have the RV, thinking I'm paying a lot more in rent, where I can be paying towards something, I'll eventually own. You know, that's a common thing that I hear, and we'll get to that in a minute, but you're not alone in that thinking, but we'll talk about why that's not a great choice later on.

Tell us, is there anything else that you're leaving out? I think there's a couple of things missing here. Where do you say that? Oh, no, you're getting close. Yeah, I think that's about an average there or a close number, yeah. Any credit cards? No, I paid those off last month. And no student loans or personal loans?

No. Okay, good. Well, the good news. Well, yeah, can I get, yeah, our rule of thumb is you should have nothing that, or you shouldn't have everything combined with motors and wheels. That includes a boat. All of it that is more than half of your annual income. And you are at your annual income, Omar. So half of this has to go to make sense financially.

So I don't know what that looks like for you. I'm curious, what would the truck bring if you were to sell it? I know there's negative equity in it, which sucks. but what would it bring? 25,000. Oh, okay. That's hurtful. How about the boat?

The boat, I might be able to break even on it. Great. Okay. I have 15,000 in cash. Okay, great. And that's really what I want to know. And the RV, yeah, if I should get rid of it, will take it. And the RV you're living in?

Yes. If you were to sell it, do you know how much it would be worth? I do not on the top of my head. What I picture, it won't be. it's somewhere around that number as well, 18,000. You bought it used, I'm assuming. Yes, from a dealer.

From a dealer. And how long have you been in it? Eight months. Okay, so I'm glad that you haven't been in it too too long for it to really depreciate too too heavily on you. If I were in your shoes, I would be looking at the boat

because it's break-even, and I'd be looking to get out of the RV. And here's why. You might be thinking, well, Jade, I live in the RV, but the RV is the same as one of these vehicles. It's going down in value every moment that you hold on to it. And so you're flushing money in a greater way down the toilet. A lot of people feel like when they're renting, they're throwing money down the toilet.

But with the RV, you're throwing even more because you're footing the bill for the depreciation on it. So I actually would get out of that and I would go back to renting. And then if you sold your, just let's pretend. Okay. So what Jade said, say the boat's gone and the RV's gone just for fun, okay, in this scenario. Say you sell the truck for $25,000, then you have $21,000 in the hole. Okay. And let's say you go down and you get a loan from the credit union for $21,000.

You take your $15,000 that you have saved and let's say you go buy a $7,000 car. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, and you go and take the eight, throw it at the $21, then you only have $13,000. of this loan left to pay off. That feels like that. That feels like a totally different world, Omar, than 85,000 making 85,000.

But it's going to require you living on less than you make and getting rid of stuff that goes down in value. Wealthy people, long term, invest in things that make them money. And when they have the cash to buy something and they can afford it, they go and buy it and it doesn't hurt. It doesn't sting. It's like, oh, yeah, it's just it is what it is. Yeah, it's fine.

Because I want you to get an RV and a boat and a truck and all the things eventually. You just can't afford it. You're broke. Yes. So to make some extreme... Yeah. So to make some extreme changes, it's going to be extreme. You're going to be moving and selling a boat that you're making some side income on,

which will hurt a little bit at first. But once those payments are freed up, I bet that's the amount of money you make on the boat a month. I bet you. Tell us. Let's hear some real numbers. When you have your truck payment, your boat payment. and we won't include RV because that's rent. But what are those two payments together, truck and in boat? $10.90 for the truck and $250 for the boat.

Okay. So, I mean, we're $1,300, almost $1,400. I mean, a month, do you make that in boat rent, whatever you do with the boat? Yes. Okay, so you just will do it without the risk. Yep. Yeah. So with that, the 15,000 I have saved, I was considering paying the boat and then I'd have no more boat payment, but I'd be making, you know, potentially more profits on the boat. So pay off the boat with the 15,000, how would, and then get out of the RV, and then that still leaves the truck. So what would, how would you solve for transportation then?

I mean, you're still $70,000. Yeah. You'd still be driving this truck that's going underwater more and more every day. And you'd still be paying $10.90 a month for it. Let's say this, John, if you didn't know anything on the boat and you had no emergency, you had no cash saved and you had a boat and you told us, I have a boat worth $15,000, we'd say sell it. Yeah.

To help get out of debt. Absolutely. Like the boat's not the problem in that scenario. But it's like sell everything. Sell everything. You know, what is it? Sell so much stuff. the kids think they're next, right?

Like you're going crazy at this. I saw that clip. Yeah, yeah. So the idea of like, you just get rid of stuff. Like start getting rid of stuff. This stuff is supposed to be bringing you fun and peace and joy. And it's not Omar. I mean, you're calling us.

You're in as much debt as you make every single year. Like, that's a lot. You want to know what this is like. And just give me a minute to paint this as a picture. You have this house that you've built, right? with a truck, a boat, and an RV. And the house catches fire, which is this.

This is a hot mess. This is a flame. Okay. And you're going back into the house on fire trying to save stuff. And we're saying, you want to know what? Go ahead and let it burn and then take the insurance money and buy something new. Build something completely brand new. And you're wanting to go back in and go into the fire where all the stuff's going to be

damaged and you're risking keeping the risk, it's trying to salvage this stuff. And we're like, dude, burn it up and start. start over. Does that make sense? Yes, perfect sense. You know what I'm saying? Hopefully that helped you out a little bit because we want you to start something fresh that's intentional that you can build a foundation of wealth and peace on. And you're trying to build on the old rickety foundation that didn't make sense that you admit, hey, I made a lot of mistakes here. That's why I'm calling in. Let's do it right. Let's do it fresh. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Summer is a time when people get away

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I'm wondering. Oh, yeah, no problem. I'm wondering if I have a solid plan for retiring at this point or if I need to go back to work. Okay. How much do you have in retirement? I have about $700,000 total, but $500,000 of that I want to do Roth conversions starting next year. and with my wife working full, and she works part-time. With that, I think we could stay in the 12% tax bracket and do the conversions for the next five years.

Okay. And pay the taxes, and you would have enough money? I do have enough cash to pay the taxes. Okay. How much money do you have cash available? Well, $250. $200. And is that just sitting in like a high-yield savings account or a brokerage account, or

Exactly. How do you guys have any other streams of income? Obviously, there'll be some social security. Does anybody have pensions or any other money coming in that we should know about? No. And how old are you guys, John? I'm 62. She's only 56. Okay. You said she works part-time. What's she bringing? She brings in 30,000 a year. Okay. So it might be a little tight living on the 30,000 for those years, but. Can you? Can you have zero deaths, yeah. Okay, and houses paid off? Yes, it is. Okay. How many years would you plan on living on just hers before you touch?

Five more years from then I would start collecting Social Security. And you guys have run that budget out on every dollar budget to see, okay, here it is. Because you were making, I mean, making $93,000 a year is a big draw. Yeah, it would definitely be a big change. but we ran it out and looks doable, just not. Yeah. Is this your strategy, or have you talked with like a smart vester pro or a professional? I have not talked to a professional.

That's why I'm calling you. Okay. I would speak with a smart vester pro because there's a lot of ends and outs of this, especially when you factor in the Roth conversion. I think that's the part that there's a lot of strategy around that that they'd want to talk through in detail. And I would just want to make sure, because I'm just thinking, you know, you're 62, praying you have 30 years, maybe 40 if you get to the 102 mark. But I'm like, you know, you pray for that.

And the amount of growth that's going to happen in that account will probably mathematically be more than the taxes you'll pay here in the next five years. So there's enough time that if you do make the conversion, it probably will mathematically be in your favor. but there's also, you know, the reality of life and to say, okay, is that going to be worth it? You know, if you know, family history, your own health, all of that. And so I would factor in a lot of those other scenarios, too, as you're thinking through this. But yeah, to do something like this and to take your lifestyle this drastically down for five years in order to do it, I think you still will be come out ahead, but I would want you to sit down. with an investment professional financial planner

to run the numbers and look at some estimates of what the returns would look like to make sure that this is the smartest thing. Okay, that sounds like a good thing. Yeah, so if you go to Ramsey Solutions.com, check out our smart vester pros. There should be one there in the Milwaukee area, one or two, and just, yep,

I would run it by because I would want to, I just don't want you paying taxes on the conversions. when you could just be pulling out the money, paying taxes on it today, living off of it. You know what I mean? Because I think there's enough in there. I don't know. I just would want to run out a couple of scenarios with them.

Unless for some reason it was like strictly a legacy play for those inheriting in the money. Yes. Because there is a piece there. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So if you were wanting to keep a lot of this and pass it down to your kids, that's a good point, Jade. Then yes.

Then the conversion would be great. But if you're planning on using this money while you're. you're alive most of it and living off of it. Yeah. It might not be. Yeah. I would just double check. Smart vester, for sure. That's a really good question. And I think we do get that question a lot, which is why going back to, and I think it's important to highlight this, going back to what we teach, our platform for investing, like our strategy for investing is so important to know because it will avoid a lot of this, which is when you have the opportunity and you've met the criteria to start investing, which for the baby steps, it means you're out of baby step one. You've saved $1,000.

You're out of baby step two. You've paid off your debt using the debt snowball. And you're out of baby step three, meaning you've saved three to six months of expenses. Now at baby step four, you can invest 15% of your income, but how do I do it to avoid what we're talking about here? You want to start first with your employee sponsored retirement fund. If you have a 401k through your employer and there's a match, meaning free dollars, start there. But honestly, guys, if there's a Roth option within your 401k, that is a fabulous place to start and actually max that out. Now, if there's not a Roth option and there's just a match, invest up to the match. But then, guys, immediately go to a Roth IRA.

You want to max it out. I think this year is 75. And then you have the, yeah, 7500. And then there's a catch-up contribution, I think, up to eight. Max out that Roth, because those are dollars that you've already paid the taxes on. And then it's going to continue to grow tax-free. and when you get to the point of retirement, if you have most of your money in Roth funds,

this is money that's going to grow tax-free. There's no... Go ahead. You don't have this problem. Yeah, of having to try to convert it later in life where you're going to be paying taxes on that much, on $500,000 is what he's going to end up paying taxes on and spreading it out over five years.

And there's no required minimum distribution, meaning if you don't want to touch it, you don't have to. No. Which is so great. If you do pass it to the next generation, I think it is up to 10 years. Within 10 years, they have to use it. But again, what a sad problem for your children to have that they have to get the money out.

You have to spend money that you didn't make. Yeah, for real. Very good question, though. Let's go to Lauren in Omaha, Nebraska. Hey, Lauren, how are you doing today? Oh, my God. Hi, you guys. This is so cool.

I'm doing great. It's great to talk to you. My question is, and it's, It seems kind of straightforward, but there's a lot of context that I would like to be able to provide. I'll let you guys ask, though. Ultimately, what I want to know is how do I prioritize saving for my son? I only have one child. I had him with a previous relationship, not my current husband.

But I was a single mom for a really long time. And just this year I got to the point, I'm sorry, I might start crying. That's all right. I got, I just this year got to the point where I'm actually making, like, a decent income. And my husband and I, who I've only been married to for about four years now, we're doing really well. Oh, Laura, and that's awesome. From where you've come from as a single mom, yes.

It was hard, yeah. And, you know, I sacrificed. I worked. I worked the whole time. I never took benefits or welfare or anything like that. And, you know, his dad and I, so my son, his dad and I started saving for him when he was a baby, but I never really was able to contribute to it. And I just feel so far behind in my own life that I feel like I'll never be able to

give anything to him. Oh, Laura, no. Girl, you've already, well, number one, you've already given him so much. You've already given him so much of your example. So from a numbers perspective, let me ask you this. When his dad was saving for him, what was he, what was he saving in or So we both contribute to the same account. It's just in a normal credit union account. Okay. You know, there's like no return on it. And I've tried to get him to, you know, like we're going to meet this month and discuss our options for where to put it.

And, you know, we're like civil with each other. So it's fine. That's all good. But there's only about $6,000. And it's mostly in a CD. There's like a little bit that's not. but it's mostly in a CD. How old is your son, Lauren?

He's 14. 14. Okay. So here's what I would do. If there was 6,000 to his name, I would be thinking through the first big purchase is probably going to be a car at 16. What does that look like?

Does he contribute some? Do you use some of this money that your husband's saved for that? Next is college. You guys could open up a 529 and start funding some college funds, some money for him for that. Anything beyond that, if you want to do any level of investing or anything, you can do an up. I would be in his name.

He'd get it at 18. I probably wouldn't do that at this point. But I think those are the two big things, Lauren. And hey, you've done a great job. You're not as behind. You're really not behind. You're doing great. As your business grows, everything becomes more complex.

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With NetSuite Next, AI is built into everything you do. So you can ask it questions, just like when you're talking to a member of your team. And right now, you can try NetSuite Next for free. If your revenue is at least seven figures, go to netsuite. coma slash Ramsey. That's netsuite. com slash Ramsey. Back to the phone lines we head where we have John in New York City, New York, on the line.

Hey, John. How can Rachelina help? Hi, I'm trying to figure out if I made a dumb decision and if I need to sell my home. Right now, I'm trying to do house hacking, but when I account for all the income, the mortgage payment, it comes out to about like 38 to 40% of my income. And, yeah, I'm trying to see what you guys think. Okay, so tell us, explain it to us in real numbers, what you have going on and what's happening. Absolutely. So my mortgage payment is $5,000 a month.

I make 5,800. Bonuses can be up to $3,000. Usually, my wife brings in $2,200, and then the rental income is $2,215. So that puts us at about $13,000 a month after taxes. Okay. And the house hacking part, you're in the house and you have, is it a shared space or how does it work? It's a two-family home. We live in one unit, and then we rent the other unit out.

Okay. And you said you pay, you told us the, you told us the, mortgage $5,000 a month, but how much is the whole, like what did you pay for the property? We bought it for $6.68. It's supposed to have appreciated about 7%. So I were to sell it today, it would be $7.15, which would be a $20,000 loss versus what I put down when I bought it last year. Yeah. Yeah. Do you guys like the house? Do you like the situation you're in? Or is it all miserable? You don't like the house. You don't like living next to the people that are renting from you.

Like, how does it feel day to day? The tenants are great. Our neighbors are fantastic. The house is 113 years old. Wow. We've put like $14,000 in maintenance and repairs. Thank God, you know, with my bonuses, we've been able to cover it without debt. I do have $48,000 in debt, but that's student loans and car payments.

And so I don't know, because if I account for the rental income, right, the cost of the house is 38%. of all of that. But if I were to assign the entire rental income and subtract it from the $5,000 mortgage payment, then what's left over would be essentially my housing cost would be about a fourth of my income. So do I account rent as my full revenue or do I just not do that? Yeah, I would count rent as income as part of the equation. Yes. And I just want to get clarity on my end on something. You said the mortgage is $5,000 a month. Is that the total mortgage or is that your portion of the mortgage? That's the total. So that's mortgage interest taxes. Got it. Okay. And so it's not it's not terrible. It's above the 25% but it's not yeah. I mean it's no I don't think you

necessarily made a terrible decision. The idea of owning a piece of property though that is dependent upon other people paying rent. Yes, that puts you at risk for sure. Nothing's on fire right now. But if you guys want out of that and say yeah, we want a more stable, we're good. renting for a few years till we get another great down payment and we'll just go buy a single family home and do our own thing. You could totally do that. But yeah, I don't think anything's on fire right now, but you are very dependent on that other unit being filled. And the risky thing is, is if that family moves out, you're going to be pretty urgent to put some people in and may not have the bandwidth and the margin to find someone that's great too, right? That's part of

the debt complex is like there's like tons of urgency to to keep this ball moving because once it stops, you go under. Right. And I again, let me just clarify a number just to make sure I'm right on this because I don't think the numbers are the issue. I think the dependency on the renters are the issue, but just to clarify, the mortgage is $5,000. They're paying $2,215 of it, right? Correct. And you're on the hook for $2,785 of it. Correct. Okay. And then plus maintenance, but bringing in your 13,000, you are below 25%. Because 25% of your 13,000 is around 32. Right, but the 13,000 accounts for the rent.

Right, but I'm just saying if you're figuring it the way we do, which is, hey, your mortgage, or in your case, your portion of your mortgage shouldn't be any more than 25% of your take-home pay. You've got your wife's 2,200, you've got your 5,800. and you've got money coming in from another source for 2215, right? You've got that money coming in, and now that's your income. And then your mortgage, if you're at 25%, could honestly be up to 3,200. And yours probably might be that way, like you said, with repairs and things like that. But the ratio feels correct.

Pointing back to Rachel, I think that she's exactly right. The problem is not the ratio. The problem is you're dependent on them paying that. because for some reason, they don't pay the 2,215. You lose the tenants. It takes you a long time to find new ones. Now you do encroach on that ratio, and now it does feel like an issue. So I guess my last question would be, is it okay to pause the debt payment?

Because like I mentioned, I have $48,000 in debt that I'm trying to snowball. Is it okay for me to pause it right now, build at least some kind of emergency fund that would cover their rent in case they were to leave me for one or two months and then resume that payment afterwards? I probably wouldn't. I think I would probably stick to paying off debt. And for some reason, when does their lease, when are they up to renew? They just renewed. So it would be until October 1st of 2027. Okay. Yeah. I would just start paying off debt. And then for some reason, if something happens, pause the debt snowball and build up. Because again, even if you had to pay the full a little over $5,000, you could still make that work. It's going to be a lot. It'd be really tight. But it could be possible, right? So I would just keep throwing money at the $48,000 of consumer debt. And if something happens, then pause the debt snowball, build up some money until you have time to fill the unit again. And then, yeah, and long term, too, John, you and your wife decide, like, what's worth the inflexibility, if you will, of having people next to you and having to depend on someone else for you to pay the mortgage on this place, too.

from a long-term perspective, I would not recommend someone do this, but for you, nothing is on fire. And again, it's not, it's not a crazy percentage even if you had to pay both units. It's not. That's a really good question, though. And it's one of those things that I feel like we get all the time. People enter into real estate and they have it. The intent is to build wealth. And by way of building wealth, maybe they're creating a lifestyle of peace or whatever it is.

but it ends up being more of an anxiety or more of a stressor to them. And I think that when that happens, you do have to reevaluate. Yeah, the whole house hacking idea. It's funny. I'm like, on paper, the concept, sure, it could make sense. You could hear it and be like, okay, yeah, yeah, someone else is paying basically your mortgage while you're building it, yada, yada, yada. But then I'm like, yeah, but then you got the crazy smiths next door that are, that you're dependent upon, right? They are one of the ones that is holding your financial piece, basically.

And if they go away, then yeah, then you're like, you're stuck with it. And so that's one of the problems about the get rid. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is because you usually don't factor in real life risk. Right. You don't factor in people in the situation. Uh-huh. Just people, right? The relational side of everything.

Like, none of that fits in an Excel sheet. And so you really do have to play out your life to say, okay, there's other factors here. And, yeah, with the, it sounds too good to be true. it probably is really, it's more real than ever, I feel like. And if you are going to do something like this, because I do like create, I like when people are creative about finding ways to make money and things like that. And so if you are going to do it, you do have to look at the total mortgage and say that total mortgage does it fit within the parameter. And if it does, and it's just gravy for somebody to be paying you,

then it's like, hey, yeah, do it until you can't stand the people anymore. Yeah, well, we had a guy call And he did that. He had a home. He owned. And it was, it was right at that 25%. It was great. And he still had student loans pay off. So he's renting out. He's having roommates basically. That's smart. Yes. And so he's making rental income that not only could he pay the mortgage, but it's all going towards the debt. So like things like that. You're exactly right. You can still get creative with this. But when you're dependent upon somebody, especially in a housing situation, to pay their portion for it to work for you, that's just a level of risk. It gets very, very stressful. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you're interested in real estate, always check out our real estate pros. They can help you out. You can find those at Ramsey Solutions.com slash real estate.

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That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey, and it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Victoria in Hawaii. We have three children, and they are all in music programs. Last year, we spent $5,800 on lessons alone. We are currently paying off debt, and my husband wants to stop all music lessons in order to become debt-free.

This is something that I've always wanted to provide for my kids, so it would be hard for me to see them stop. Should we give up this expense to get out of debt or should I continue pushing for music lessons? Ooh. Oh, man. Okay, so it's close to like 500 bucks a month. Uh-huh. I mean, here's the bottom line with all of this is it's math, right?

So the faster you or the deeper you sacrifice and you cut everything that is not a need, the faster you are going to get out of debt. So my question, I guess, would be more of, okay, when you guys look at that, this timeline, how much debt do you have? Do you have $15,000? Do you have $500,000? Like, and how much do you make? And how much do you make? All of it. Yes. So that plays into a lot of this. Because if 500 bucks a month is going to slow your debt snowball down three months, who cares? I would be like, just take the music a lot. Like it's three months, you know, but the extra job you're working, that's three more months. So like you have to account for all

these other things that you're stretching out your debt payoff. But if it's going to be longer, I don't know, you would have to pick the timeline and decide. So it's not a need. So if you cut the music lessons, you can always pick them back up six to eight months after, you know what I mean? From now, once you're debt free, you can always just pick it back up. And depending on the age of your kids, like, I don't know, my kids do piano, but they like, one of them stopped for probably five months and she's getting, I don't know, it's just not that hard court for us. But it's good for them to do. It's that kind of feeling. So I don't think it's a need. And 500 bucks, again, in some people's world, that's a lot. It could be everything. Yeah. It's a lot. So I understand it's an important value for you guys,

but you also are broke. So you have to kind of realize what can we really afford with a lifestyle that we've chosen to live that's gotten us into debt in the first place. Yeah, I think it's absolutely. I couldn't have said it better myself. And I do think that that does bring up a values question. And I want to throw this in here because I want to know your answer, Rachel. So a while back, I did a post on a couple of things that I would not give up in baby step two. Oh, that's good. Yeah, because we're always talking about, cut everything, stop everything. And one of the things I think we can both agree on would be generosity.

Yes. In the form of especially like that if you're a Christ follower that base, like, hey, I do 10% to my local church or even 10% to a charity. If you're not, that's fine, cool. But having generosity, I never let go of that. The other thing I put on there is if you need help and you need counseling, like therapy. Yeah, budget for counseling. Like there are certain things that I think are at a primal need that you don't want to let go and they may feel like luxuries, but based on your values or based on what is truly a need at a moment, you got to do it.

One of the things I said is anything that like a date night. And I'm not saying you have to go out every, you know, once a week or, but like having a special night that if you have to pay for a sitter, that you're valuing your marriage and valuing your bonds. And I was wondering if you have anything that you would add to that. Oh, that's a good one. That I would not cut out. I put you on the spot, but. No, no, no.

I was going to say, I'm in my health era, Jade. Ah. So I wouldn't do so. I mean, if I had like a personal trainer or something a little bit above and beyond, I probably would cut that for a season. But you got to do your basic appointment. But I would want, if I did, if I needed a gym membership, I would keep that. Yes.

Like things like that to say, I'm going to keep. keep these classes going. More for my own sanity. Yeah, because you need it for just as much your mental health as your physical health. So I would say that. I love the date night idea because I'm like, even just take me to Chili's. Chili's. We don't have to get crazy here.

That's all I need. All I need. I would say that. And then as we're thinking about the kids and like we do rec sports. So they're not expensive. I mean, you pay like a initial registration. Yeah. And that's about it.

And if it was time to sign up for that. for like falls soccer, I would probably go through with that. I would say the kids can still play at the YMCA soccer. We can find another way to make that money up. Yes. Yep. So there would be a couple of things, but an ongoing expense like this specifically $500 a month. It's a lot. That's ongoing. That feels, yeah, that feels like a lot. It's a good question. It's a good conversation. I'm in my hair, Jade. Say what? I got gray's early in life. I'd get my roots done. I would. I would keep that. I'd keep my hair appointments. Well, somebody called it. That's a good one because somebody called in and asked about that in baby step to it. And that's another one we can add to the list.

You may have to find a cheaper person to go to. Yes. Yes. There's always options to make it less expensive. But you do. If you have a job or a corporate job, you do have to do what you have to do to show up in a professional manner. Hey, let me ask you this. Because you and Sam, remind me the time frame. Eight? Uh-huh. Seven and a half years. Would you say if someone is looking, because I mean, you guys were like half a million dollars. Like you're like you are looking at a spread. Not nine months, not 18 months. Like seven years. Do you give more grace to sustain a lifestyle to get you through that than like the 18? Hicks, yes.

Okay. So that's good to know. Because for people out there that have hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loans, and you're looking out and you're like, it's going to take four years. You may be looking at that and thinking, okay, I have to live that out for four years. Again, nine months, I carried a baby for nine. You can do anything for nine months. Like, shut up and get ready. But the long term is harder.

That's hard. I'm so glad you said that, which does point to something that we should highlight, which is most people, when we talk about the baby steps, baby step two is what we're talking about, paying off all your debt minus your mortgage. The average person who's doing it, they're doing that in two years, 18 to 24 months. 18 to 24 months, that's like a drop in the bucket, right? So to her point, you can sacrifice and do anything for that length of time. If you're beyond that, I do think it's important, especially if you're like four years, five years to your point. I think it's important. I think it's important. I think it's important. I think it's important. important to highlight, and if you can do it ahead of time, I think that's even better to kind of highlight what your milestones are going to be and say, okay, you know, once I get to the three-year point or once I've paid off $200,000, we're going to do X, Y, Z. And once I get to that point, then I'm going to let myself get my nails done again. And live your life because the truth is, your life is still your life and you want to enjoy it to a certain extent. And tomorrow isn't promise. And so balancing that and knowing that, okay, there's a certain responsibility that I can

hold for 18 to 24 months. But beyond that, I do want to make sure that I'm in my life a little bit and I'm still, otherwise, your mental health is going to get nasty. Yeah, right, right, right. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, so good. That's a really good question. All righty. Let's go to these social questions. I really like these because it's a way that you guys can contact us. If you follow Rachel online, myself, any of the personalities, or even the Baby Steps community, which is our Facebook group, you can drop your questions in there and we'll see them there. And we can answer those. So this comes from Hannah on Facebook.

She says, we're rebuilding our emergency fund due to some unexpected home repairs. It will take us five to seven months to rebuild if we continue our retirement investments or two months if we temporarily stop them. Does it matter which way we choose? Oh, I'd go two months. I would too. Contact HR. Just say pause. Two months be done?

Press play again. Yeah. I wouldn't drag it out. Because who knows what else is going to come? up seven months. Stuff could happen. Yeah. I don't know.

That's stretching it for me. I 100% agree and I actually think that that's the way the baby steps work. As you work through them, if something happens and you have to take a step back, which is not a negative. The whole purpose of the emergency fund is there in case something happens. So it's not a negative. But if you go back and you have to redo it, then you're back to that step. Now, if it's like 30, 60 days with retirement funding, you could probably get away with that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to keep going. But seven months, no. I would pause and get it done in two. I love that one. Okay, one last question. Annie from Instagram says, how do you balance working the baby steps

and still enjoy life? Because time flies and your kids are growing up quickly. I feel like we got that. I know. Yeah, I mean, I still think there's things that you can do with your kids. And again, I'm going to base this on the 18, 24 month timeframe. That that flies.

It really does. It goes so fast. And you can still enjoy your kids without having to spend money on them. That's the other thing. It's like, there is stuff that you can. There is stuff that you can do, you guys, and your kids want to be with your kids. Like, I always go back to that.

They want to be with you. It's the smallest things. Like, I think I've told the story, but this was, I guess at Thanksgiving. We took our kids, we put all the bikes and Winston's truck and went to the high school. It's just on the road. And they literally, like, made this whole loop and this whole thing around. And they were the best. They were so happy.

They were fine. Fine. Costs nothing. Yes. So, listen, it does not take that much, honestly. So you can't enjoy your life with your kids and get out of dad. And the beautiful thing is, when you're not a stressed parent and not have anxiety about money, you're going to be more peaceful to be around.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show here in the Fair One's Credit Union Studio. I'm Jade. This is Rachel. And we have Emily from Auburn, Alabama on the line. Hey, Emily. What's up in your world? Hi, guys. How are you? Excellent. Doing great. How are you? Fantastic.

Great. I will jump right into it. I am 29 years old. And about two years ago, I went through a divorce. And at the time, my ex was active duty military, and I was a police officer. So truly just both very challenging careers. And we just drifted apart, long story. But two years later, well, going through that, I realized that going from two incomes,

we did not have any kids to one income, I was like, wow, cops don't make any money. So after, you know, keeping my job as a cop for, I was a cop for six years, and I had to work so many part-times and so much overtime, it felt like every single month I was just breaking even. So my degree is actually in sales and business marketing. So I went back into sales. I got a remote job. It was a very hard decision because, again, I loved my job.

It was so fulfilling. I felt like that was my calling. Like, I felt like God, that was what God. I have made me to do. But I need to make a change because I was wearing myself out. I was stretched too thin and it was not sustainable. So I got a job working from home sales and I make double the amount of money. I get to sit at home. I like have a dream job that I bet everybody would want. But now on the other side of things, I was able to pay off all of my debt. I was able to buy a house. So the only debt that I have is my house. So where's the problem? So I just am so

I'm fulfilled. Like I wake up every day and I'm like, ugh, this is like, for work, life balance, it's great, but this is like not my policy.

You dread it. You dread it every day. Yes, exactly. Exactly. What were you making as a police officer? So my base was about 55. Okay.

And then I was in like a very specialized unit. So we were on call all the time. I worked so much overtime. And then on top of that, I would work like part times. like a higher security essentially. Okay, so you would make what doing all of that? So my last year of the cop, my W-2 is like 82.

Okay, and how many hours did that? Because you said you worked a lot of overtime, so how many hours a week? If I had to guess, so just normal hours was 48 hours, and then on top of that I was probably working another 20 to 25 hours. Okay, so you get to the 82? Yeah. Oh, wow. And then what are you making?

now at this role? I'm making $150. Okay. So are you essentially saying because you left the cop position because it was stressful, it was a lot, it was just overwhelming. And you didn't make a lot. Right. It's what you're saying. Yeah. So you're saying, you know what, I'd actually, I'd go back to the overwhelm to be doing what I love instead of having maybe a cushy schedule, but I just don't like, I just dread it. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, exactly. Okay. Um, my question is. I, just like I can't fathom going back to making so little amount of money and barely like having any personal time. So it's just like such a hard. Well, would you have to do the OT? Do you have to go back into exactly what you were doing? Or could it look a little different? So my house now, my only debt is

my mortgage would be like, my mortgage is about $2,200 a month now. And that would, I feel like going back to being a cop on that salary would feel suffocating. Do you have, how much more do you have on the mortgage? Like, how close are you to? So I literally just bought it about three months ago for $300. So I still have like $2.99. Okay, forgive me, Emily. I don't know how well, I don't know how all this works.

I wonder if the overtime you were doing that you made an extra $30 or something, I'm wondering, could you do that and not be a full-time police officer or you have to be a full-time police officer order to do that? Like, I'm wondering if you can kind of scratch your itch and do some things like every other week still plug back in and make some money. The security stuff. Yes. Just to. No, that is definitely. It's called a reserve officer.

That is definitely an option. And I've asked my former employees and they're like, as soon as one becomes available because the city only allows like a certain amount. in their budget every single year, and they're all filled. So I have been waiting for like six months for them to have an opening, because I do think that would be perfect. Yep. But I just feel like every day I'm like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, and that's not a way.

Yeah, that's no way to live. No, there's a point that the diminishing returns of the extra money you make takes, you know what I mean? It's not even worth it to a point of like, I'm miserable every Monday as I'm doing what I'm doing. So you don't want to live your life like that long term by any stretch. you know if you hold on the line Emily we're going to get you Ken Coleman's book find the work you're wired to do

there's a great assessment in the back and I'm just wondering from a creative perspective what about being a police officer and all those things that you enjoyed pulling out that part of you and finding a position a job that

maybe you're not even thinking about but you're able to use that skill set and your mind in that way but it may not have to look like you're working 60 hours a week, right? And making half of what you were making when you're working 40, right? It needs to make sense. Make it make sense, right?

So we'll give you that for sure after this call, because I'm hoping that maybe can steer you. There's an assessment in the back to generate some ideas. Yeah, I like that idea. I'm just thinking through other things that are maybe just way more abstract of your mortgage. So the main problem is the mortgage payment. what's keeping you because you go, if I go back down to 55, now my mortgage is too big a chunk of my, you know, my life here. So if you did a play, if you did a play while you're waiting for

that security role or whatever that was to open up, if you did a play where you're like, hey, I'm going to just save up and chunk away as much money as I can. And then maybe I can put like a lump sum on this mortgage and kind of recast it to where that payment makes more sense. And then I can go back to the cop role and not have to do overtime. And not have to do overtime. something that might work too. Again, there's a level of sacrifice to that, obviously, but if we're looking at this long term, maybe that is worth it to you. So just another thing to throw in the hat there, but I agree with Rachel. Did you come from a family, Emily, of public service? No, I'm the first and only one. Okay. What did you love about it? What was so great?

Guys, it was just so fun and you just get to like put bad people in jail and like chase them and like just to be a adrenaline like it was so fun yes like justice yeah yeah I wonder if you're an enneagram eight I don't know I'm trying to think of like your personality I am I am you are that's me girl some of my eights are some of my best friends a lot of my girlfriends are commanding I just wonder if yeah like what kind of role can you have in that right that you find justice I don't know like that scratches all those itches um to find a fulfilling career I don't know Emily I and and you're still you know I say so young I don't mean that you know demeaning by any means but you You have a lot of time on your side, yeah, to kind of figure out this path. And you've set yourself up so well financially in order to do that, which is amazing. I mean, you're debt-free. You've done it all the right way. I mean, it's amazing.

So you can have the options, which is wonderful. That's why you do all the hard work on the front end. So I'm proud of you. Yeah, and I hope you find that next step. Sorry, I wish we had the magic career to pull out of our hats to give you. Well, I think the resource is really going to help her because it'll help you identify those skills that Rachel was talking about and it will suggest other career fields that you can use that same juice that gets you going, just in other career fields that maybe you hadn't thought about.

Hey guys, George Camel here. You ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show for it? You run into Target for one thing and somehow walk out $87 later with toothpaste and emotional support candles. Just me? Okay. Well, that's the problem. Most people don't pay attention to how they spend their money, so it does whatever

it wants. why we created every dollar. It's a budgeting app that helps you create a simple plan for your money. Every dollar's simple, it's clear, and it helps track where your money's actually going. Plus, you get daily lessons, to-dos, and reminders along the way. It's like having a money coach in your pocket. Your money's been freelancing long enough. It's time to give every dollar a full-time job. Go download every dollar for free on the app store or Google Play. All righty, Ashley is on the line who's in Omaha, Nebraska. Hey Ashley, how can Rachel and I help today? We, they're family, and so we move around every two to three years, but we've been saving.

Okay, well, I've been saving pretty much ever since I got a job, and then I convinced my husband to save with me. And so we keep building up our house down payment, and we know Dave always talks about waiting, so we live somewhere for five years, but is there ever a point where it's like you have such a high down payment that you can ignore that rule? Tell me why you guys move every two to three years? Did you say? Oh, we're in the military. Military.

Okay, gotcha. How long will you guys, well, is it your husband or you? My spouse. Yourself. My spouse. Your spouse. Okay. No, you're fine.

Sorry. How long will he be in service for? Do you know? Well, originally we were going to get out in like three to four years, but now the talk is to stay in the full 20, which is why that's when I was like, oh, well, shoot. Yeah, how much time to wait to buy? For sure. How much longer is that for you guys? How many more years?

It would be 15, another 50 years. 15, okay. I know, Ashley. I mean, depending on where we live, like, we have like a 50% down payment. So it makes us antsy sometimes of like, oh, we could just, I don't know. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, no, for sure. Well, the thing is you don't have to, number one, you could just leave it alone.

And just, you know, I would hate to keep it in just a high-yield savings for 15 years. Yeah, no, no. Part of me would open up a brokerage account, put that in, and you just kind of have it earmarked as down payment for when you actually do settle. Because I probably would not advise you, Ashley, to buy a house if you're only going to be there for two years. I would just, the exhaustion of selling it and turning it around. I mean, because, yeah, you're going to use probably 15% to commissions.

Every time. Yeah, so much. I don't think it would be, I don't think it's worth it. But I also don't want you to keep saving, like put it in a brokerage or something, and then go enjoy life. Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, there's, you're in a great position. So don't feel like you have to keep putting money away for something that's not going to be happening for 15 years. You've done the work.

Walk away from the account. And in 15 years, the growth on that. Who knows you'd have something in cash probably? Pay cash probably, which would be insane. That's true. I think, yeah, that's probably what our problem is that. We keep it in a CD because we keep thinking like, oh, this next move will be there long term, and then we move again.

But, yeah, I've heard of a brokerage account, but I'm going to have to. Yeah, and you can do it, Fidelity or Vanguard. I mean, you can honestly just open up your own on a website. I mean, they make it pretty simple these days, and I would just get an index fund. And, you know, it'll have 500, you know, stocks within there, which is awesome. awesome. And it really just follows the S&P. And you kind of just park it in there and don't look at it because, well, you guys are military, you know. Yeah, that's right. Foreign affairs start happening and the market dips and then you're going to be mad and piss. You're like, Jane and Rachel just told me to put in there. So this is a long-term play. I would look at it as a long-term investment for the house. And then go rent somewhere great. And I would even say, which I'm a spender, Ashley, even if you guys, you know, got to a point that you're like, oh, gosh, we need.

like 10 grand for something, something, something. I don't know, you use some of it. Yeah. Enjoy your life. 15 years is a long time. It's a long time. So I would, yep, I would just park it somewhere that's going to have way more growth long term. And your market is the house fund.

And I would rent, though. I would not go through the process of buying a home. I wouldn't. And turning around and sell two years later. That's a quick turnaround. I'm sorry, but thanks for your service for you and your husband, everything you guys do for this country. We really, really appreciate it.

That's such a good point. You made, Rachel, all the closing costs. Like, when you buy one, the closing costs, when you sell one, the realtor fee, like all that, adding up over time, over three or four different locations is painful. It doesn't always, yeah, and depending on the, I mean, you know, your house is not going to appreciate maybe even that much in two years. So you may actually end up losing money by doing that. But I know, I could see, and I assume they have kids, because she said, our family moves, like, to want to have your own place. But the reality is, you know, because of what you guys do. it's not going to be your own place in two years anyways. And don't keep other military families that are listening or people that do move around for even career. Don't keep a house in another city and try to rent it. Don't be a long-distant landlord. If you leave a city, sell your home and use the equity to buy the next home. Don't be having like three or four houses around the country of all these places you've lived. Good, good, good advice.

All right, thank you for the call. We've got Kira next, who's in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Hey, Kira. Hello, how are you ladies today? Doing all right. How about you? Doing well. All right, I'll get into it. So a little background about four years ago, five years ago now. My husband and I got out of debt. We paid off $125,000 in 23 months.

Nice. Since then, we've had three babies, and I haven't had two surgeries, two serious surgeries. And we're on babysat of 3B, and we're feeling discouraged. I'm a stay-at-home mom, so, you know, one-income family. My husband makes $85,000 a year before taxes. He's in sales, so he can make more than that. But, you know, I'm looking to try and bring in some extra money if I can. I love to cook.

I love to bake. And, I mean, I've been told I'm good at it. I don't know. Yeah. So I'm wondering what your suggestion would be to kind of start some sort of side hustle. I mean, I don't know how far I could take it and I don't know what the logistics or like the rules are for cooking for people. You know, I don't, I haven't looked that far into it, but I would like to start maybe making meals for people and selling them once a week. Like, what are your

thoughts? How can I go about starting that? Well, I have two examples of real life examples. There's a mom that goes to our kids school and she bakes and everyone just literally uses her for birthday parties. I mean, she's always doing stuff and she'll have holiday baskets that you can come and buy. And she's kind of created this community that people go to her for for cookies and cakes and all of it. And so, and she's just, you know, she's a mom. And she's awesome, but she's kind of created this network. And I don't know how much she makes. She's ever told me, but everyone goes to her. So that's one. And then we have people, they live in a neighborhood that connects to our neighborhood. And they, they, they, They were, he was a chef in Nashville and ended up coming home with his wife. And they do like

sourdough breads. They, during the winter, when we have snow days, they make these like basket meals and they sell it on Facebook. And so people are like literally lined up outside their house to get soups. And like they make the most incredible food. And they've, they have killed it. I mean, they have stands set up. I mean, like they, it is prime. So I'm like, those are just two examples in my own personal life. And again, I don't know if they have business license. I mean, I don't know all the ends and outs. But those are two women who are home doing life, but they're like, they're really good at this thing. And over time, word of mouth. And a community gets out. And it's amazing. Yeah. I love those ideas. I think the best side hustles are based on things that we already love and

that we're already good at and that we can set the fees and the hours, right? Which is just that. With cooking, I do think in the area, you'll want to check out like what the regulations and what the law is around having like a cottage setup is usually what it's called because it could be different. When I did things like that when I was in South Florida, it has to do with the scope of what you're doing. And sometimes it'll require things like you have to put the nutrition ingredients on the box or you have to have, there'll be some regulations for what you need to do. And it's probably, I don't want to say this, but it's probably pretty easy. to curtail some of that, some of that if you're really starting small. But once word of mouth picks up, you probably want to make sure that you're following those guidelines and making sure of that. But the biggest thing that I would say, aside from legal and all those things, is

make sure you're running this. If it's supposed to be a side hustle, run it as a business. And make sure you're keeping track of what you're spending on product. And make sure you're pricing things in such a way that you're actually making a profit. And you can look at back on this and go, I actually made a profit. I didn't just break even or I didn't just do this thing for put in a bunch of sweat equity and make sure you're factoring in your time in that in that cost, right? Because the dollars and cents might make sense, but if it's taking you, you know, 15 hours. That's right. To make a certain amount of money, then it's no longer worth it. So factor in all of those things and make sure you're doing due diligence there. You should not feel uncertain

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Marylle is in St. Louis, Missouri. Hey, Mariel, how are you? Doing all right. How can we help? I'm a public school teacher. So we have pensions. Thank you for your service. As public school moms, we appreciate you.

Absolutely. So currently in Missouri, I am forced to put in 14.5% into my pension, contributed to my pension program. And my husband is military, so we move around a lot. And we will not be in Missouri long enough for me to be invested into my pension. So that money has to go somewhere. It can't just stay with Missouri's peers program. PRS program. So my problem is, because we're moving to another state, and I'm not vested, my question is, should I move that into a traditional IRA and let it grow? Or should I pull it out,

take the fees, which would probably go from, I think I'll have only like 11,000 in there, and we'll be pulling out, I think after fees, it's going to be a little less than 8,000, but that would get rid of the last of our debt and kind of jumpstart our emergency savings. And I would have a pension in our next state. He has his military pension plus all of his retirement accounts, plus I have other retirement accounts. So our retirement looks really good. You really want to cash this out, don't you? Well, I wouldn't.

And I want you to ask more questions because I don't know every state could be different, but I know that in many states, their retirement system will let you leave the money in the pension. You wouldn't necessarily have to move it. So if you wanted to let it stay until it's vested, you could do that. So I would check on that option. In the state of Missouri, you have to work side in the school system in order to get fixed. Okay. Then I would roll.

I would just roll it to an IRA, honestly. Okay. Yep. And I wouldn't take the, I wouldn't pull any money just in. as a standard principle out of, out of retirement, unless it was to avoid a foreclosure or bankruptcy. So let that just grow. And you guys, oh, me like for a crazy emerge. Yep, yep.

So, yeah, I would roll it to an IRA. And that's what I would tell anybody, even who was at a company, right, that left their company. And their 401K, you roll it to a traditional IRA and just keep it in there. Yeah, really good question. Okay. Yes. But, yep, thanks for you and your husband, too. Oh, two tough jobs, military.

teacher, so we appreciate you. For sure. Great, great question. All right, next, we have Drew, who's in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey, Drew. Hey, how are y'all? Excellent. How can we help today? Good. Well, my wife and I are on Baby Step 2 and are relocating for an upgrade in employment. And we have a house and we're trying to sell it. And it looks like we're going to be clearing about $50,000. And I'm wondering if we should use that as a 20% down on our next. house or if we should just crush off the remaining debt that we have and get a pretty good jump start on baby step three by renting instead. Wow.

Plan B, I would say go ahead and pay off your debt. How much debt do you have? 22,000. Okay. What's it in? It's in a car and just a little bit of a student loan left. Okay. How much do you guys make a year?

85. Okay, great. Yes, I know. I'll be honest, you. I would pay off the debt, get an emergency fund, and then save at least 5% for the down payment. Because what happens, and you may have felt this already, I don't know, but having no emergency fund debt still that you're paying these payments and owning a home, there's so much that can just go wrong. It is a way more peaceful process. It's a longer process, but it's way more peaceful to have no debt.

Everything's paid off. You guys have a fully funded emergency fund. And then you go and buy a home. and you're a homeowner with that under your feet, that is a much more stable position to be. Awesome. Okay. That's what I figured we'd be ending up doing.

Awesome. So great. Glad we affirmed it. For sure. Great call. We've got Christine next, who's in Los Angeles, California. Hey, Christine. Hi.

How are you, ladies? Excellent. How can we help out? Well, I currently own a condo. I'm single or divorced. same way and I'm just trying to decide if I should sell it or sell it in rent or keep it and just kind of like struggle with it a little bit. It's kind of expensive. Is that the reason you're even considering it? I was going to say, is it the expense? Is it debt? Why are you even considering

selling it? It's a lot. It eats up a lot of my monthly income and I have been paying for my daughter's expenses. She just graduated college and so I've been, you know, paying that for the last four years and it's put me in debt. And now I'm just like, ugh. Are you still paying them? Are you still paying her expenses? No. Okay.

No, I'm not. How much consumer debt do you have? I have $17,000 in credit card debt. Okay. And is that it? That's it. Okay. How much do you make a year?

My gross is like 123, I think, but I take home 109. That's after tax. After taxes, okay. And how much is your condo payment each month? The payment, the mortgage and insurance is $3,200. Okay. And my taxes. And then my HOA is $600. Okay. So you're at like $3,800, basically. So that's close to that 25%. Yeah, that's not, that's not wild. Do you like the condo? Is the only reason you want to sell it is because you have this debt? Because it's not a massive part of your take-home pay.

You said you bring home $9,000? 109. So around $9,000 a month? Yeah, $9,000 a month. Okay. Okay, sorry. Yeah, it's a bigger piece than we're thinking. Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking.

Yeah, I think ideal for you would be somewhere, yeah, ideally for you would be somewhere around like $2,300 or $2,200, and we're creeping up to $4,000. Yeah. Okay, yeah, you'd feel that. Sorry, I was doing it on 12,000 a month. I was putting you, I was putting your gross in, my bad. The debt's not the issue here.

I mean, obviously we want you to clear out the debt, but that's not going to make a change, I don't think, unless you're paying $1,000 a month, and you feel like that would give you everything you need once the credit card debt is gone, but I don't feel like that's it. Am I wrong or am I right? Well, I feel like I got into that.

debt, well, like, I don't feel like it. I got into debt because I was trying to pay, I was paying like $1,500 a month towards my daughter's school and living expenses. And so if I didn't have that, then it would be a lot easier. But you don't have that because you stopped paying those expenses. How long have you been outside of that rhythm of life? She just graduated and, like, moved out on her own. So like, two months. A month. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if we're, I hate to be like too legalistic on this, but it really is a parameter for a reason. And so I think that you're feeling the effects of that. And you were feeling it before because you were going into debt to help her. It's not like you were using cash flow money to help her. You were going in debt to do it. So I think that you're going to keep feeling that until you find a place of living that meets your standard of income a little bit. bit better. Okay. So what's, what do you pay for the condo? Like, what do you owe on it and what's it worth? Let's say that. What do you, what do you owe and what's it worth? I owe about 485 and it's probably worth about $6.50. Okay. So that's an easy, that's kind of a no-brainer, I think. Yep. And then that could be a great down payment, the rest after you pay off your debt and emergency funds for somewhere else, maybe a different location, but that's a little bit less. That's what I would do. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to.

use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com. All right. Our Ramsey shows scripture and quote of the day, Romans 831. What then shall we say in response to these things? Well, they've got us for us. Who can be against us? Then Jen Cicero said, you can have excuses or you can have success. You can't have both. Perfect for what we teach around. Pretty good. I love that. Love that. All righty, let's wrap it on up. We got Lisa who's in Atlanta, Georgia on the line. What's up, Lisa? Hi there. How are y'all today? We are doing fabulous. How are you?

I am doing okay. Well, tell us how we can help you be better than okay. All righty. My husband recently passed. Oh, Lisa. I'm sorry. Thank you. And he did have life insurance, and we both do. And we have always just had small policies that were enough to basically pay off the house. because we were both gainfully employed. So basically I know that the life insurance is coming.

It's, you know, we owe $100,000 on the house. It's about $200,000 in life insurance. And part of me wants to go ahead and just pay the house off and get that done. But I am close to retirement in the next, you know, two to three years, and I probably won't stay here. I don't think this is going to be my retirement home. So I'm wondering if I should pay it off or if I should sit tight and wait to decide what I'm going to do first. Tell us again how long it's been since he's passed?

Under a month. Yeah. For that reason, I think I'd wait. We tend to teach not to do anything, like not to make any major financial moves after something. like that life altering, you know, a loss like that, just because there's just, I mean, you're in a cloud right now. Yeah, you're absolutely grieving, Lisa. So, yeah, I would not, I would not make any big financial moves for nine months to a year. I would just sit and, and be sad. And Ms. Sam, how long were you guys married for? 36 years. Oh, I'm so sorry. Was it sudden, Lisa?

No. Okay. Oh, so tough. That is, that is a, just horrible. And so, yeah, the grief you're in, I wouldn't do much. Are you okay with retirement? What kind of money do you guys have? We're in decent shape, not fabulous because we were normal for way too long. But, you know, we did kind of get it all together. Good. And decent. I mean, you know, I've got... How much is in retirement? I've got $500. Okay.

Okay. Okay. In my retirement. And, you know, and obviously, you know, and obviously, you know. no debt and except the house. And how much is the house worth? About $350. Okay.

Good. So, and you're going to retire, are you thinking two years? Is that what you said? Probably about two years, yes. Okay. And where do you think you're going to go? Do you know? That's what I'm debating.

I may stay here, but downsize. Okay. Or, you know, and move, you know, kind of move closer into. town. We're kind of rural. Okay. Or we, I mean, we've talked, we also talked about Tennessee and we talked about Florida as well because there are

cities we like in both places. Yes. Do you guys have kids? No. No. Okay. Yeah, Lisa, if I were you, if you were my mom and I was and I was talking to you, I would just put this $200,000 in a high yield savings account and I wouldn't touch it. And honestly

because you have an I mean, after the year of the grief, in the next year, you're going to be retiring. There's two major events happening in a pretty fast period of time of these two years. So I probably wouldn't do anything. I would just stay where you are. And after you retire, then you can look up and see how much you have left on the house after the two years, decide where you want to go, sell the 350. In a perfect world, you would buy around that same mark so that you could add your 200 of

his life insurance to your 500, right? And that could be 700. That would be wonderful. Okay. So that's probably, that's what I would do. And if you go to Fairwinds credit union online, their whole, their customer service is amazing. And so if you don't have a bank that has a good high yield savings, I would definitely recommend them.

But I would. I would probably just put that 200 in there and let it sit. Yeah. And just grieve and make your next move. for the next chapter of your life, Lisa, of retirement and all. So I hope that's helpful, and I'm so sorry. That's so heartbreaking. Thank you for trusting us with that call.

That's so special. All right. We got Shane, who's in Los Angeles, California. Shane, you're up next. Shane, are you there? Shane, can you hear me? Yep, sure can. Excellent, great.

The question for myself is, is it okay to, loan my parents money just given the circumstances I'm in that. Tell us more. Tell us the circumstances you're in and tell us how much money they want you to loan them. Of course, they would like me to loan them $5,000. I currently rent a room from them. I pay about $200 a month. And in the last year, I actually went through a divorce and they weren't.

they didn't ask me to pay me rent so I was living free but now that I've kind of established myself got a job I'm actually paying them $200 a month in rent and they currently have a home that they're paying off I would say they're about 70% of the way through paying it off they actually want to buy an additional home and they're asking me to pick on loan them $5,000 for that down payment and no I've heard your conversations, your videos and I'm kind of in a little pickle because they've helped me out so much. But you don't have any money. I just don't want to.

Do you? Oh, yes. I've been able to save up. So right now I have about $30,000, $20,000 in my retirement and I have $8,000 as an emergency savings. Shane, if they need $5,000 to buy a house, that's wild. They don't need to be buying a house if they can't afford a $5,000 swing. That's not good for them. Like if we're talking about a $10,000.

car and they need half the money to buy a car. Uh-huh. That's one thing. If you can't spend five, if you don't have $5,000 that makes or breaks a deal on a house, you don't even buy in the house. I know, that's right. Plus, you are, the whole point of you being in there was to get back on your feet. That was the whole point, right?

Yeah. Yeah. What are they going to do with their current home? What's the plan? Is it to rent out the next home they're going to buy or something? So they're going to be living in the current home. home, they're going to try to rent that second home. Okay.

So that's... That's informed them that it's a risk because, you know, it's just a lot of... When do you move out, Shane? When do you move out? That's a great question. I would just exit myself from this situation. Yes, sir. Exit the chats because you're getting tied up.

I think because it's weird, once you go back home, you're getting tied up in the family business stuff again. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And it's like, if you. have been out in your own house with your own people, you probably wouldn't even be a part of this conversation. But it's because you're at home. And I get it. I respect the fact sometimes you need to reset life throws you things. I'm not, I'm not, there's no shade there. But I think now that you've told me how I got 30K saved, I feel like it's probably just time for you to move on. Yeah. How old are you?

I am 24. 24. 24. Okay. Yeah, I would say I would I would not loan my parents' money. I do not I think you have any obligation because they've been kind to you. Yeah, you're their son. They chose to bring you in. I mean, it's fine. Like, it is what it is. But, yeah, I think the sooner you get on your own chain, I think probably the better off you're going to be. If you do decide against our advice to give them $5,000 of your $30,000, then give it to them.

Don't have strings attached because they're going to leap you in to this home and then try to pay that rent and have you. And you're going to be all entangled in their mess and don't do it. If you're going to do it, just give it and be done with it. But I wouldn't. I don't think that you're obligated to by any means. I mean, that calls back to our very first call. I think it was of the day where the people had loaned family members and friends money. Yes, that's right.

And then they came on hard times and they needed the money back. And it was like, oh, this is so awkward. It's exactly right. So that just highlights why the principal is. The bookends of the show, people. Yes. Don't lend your friends and family money. Give them money. And if for some reason you move back home, you need to put a time limit on that mess and say it is from here to here and here is the clear goal that I have that I'm trying to accomplish. All righty then. Well, that was a great show, Rachel. And remember, guys, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.