The Ramsey Show - We’re $100K in Debt and Living in a Camper

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

💵 ⁠Type your money question, get a Ramsey answer instantly.⁠ Ken Coleman and George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: "How do I get out of $100,000 of debt?" "Should I stop paying my Parent PLUS loans and use that money to pay off my credit cards?" "How can we help my brother-in-law without enabling him?" "How do I find a house after college when rent is so expensive?" "My husband refinanced our auto loan to pull cash out of our vehicle. Now our APR is 25%, what should we do?" "I was scammed out of $60,000 and now I don't have anything saved for retirement. What should I do?" "I'm afraid to deplete my savings to pay down my debt". Next Steps: ✔️⁠ ⁠Help us make the show better. Please take this short survey.⁠⁠ 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET or⁠ ⁠send us an email⁠. 💵 ⁠⁠Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app!⁠ 🚢 Set Sail with Dave Ramsey! Book your cabin today. 📈 Free Tools & Resources to Help You With Investing and Retirement 💻 Need help with your taxes? See who we trust. Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of ⁠BetterHelp⁠ Go to ⁠Boost Mobile⁠ to switch today! Go to⁠ ⁠⁠Casper Sleep⁠ and use promo code RAMSEY to learn more If you want your car to keep going and going, trust ⁠Christian Brothers Automotive⁠. Find a local shop and get an exclusive Ramsey discount of 10% off Learn more about⁠ Christian Healthcare Ministries⁠ Get started today with⁠ Churchill Mortgage⁠ Get 20% off when you join ⁠DeleteMe⁠ Go to⁠ FAIRWINDS Credit Union⁠ for an exclusive account bundle! Debt collectors hassling you? Take back control of your life at ⁠Guardian Litigation Group⁠ Find top health insurance plans at ⁠Health Trust Financial⁠ Use code RAMSEY to save 20% at ⁠Mama Bear Legal Forms⁠ Visit⁠ NetSuite⁠ today to learn more Get started with ⁠YRefy⁠ or call 844-2-RAMSEY Visit⁠ Zander Insurance⁠ for your free instant quote today!   Explore more from Ramsey Network: 💸 ⁠The Ramsey Show Highlights⁠ 🧠 ⁠The Dr. John Delony Show⁠ 🍸 ⁠Smart Money Happy Hour⁠ 💡 ⁠The Rachel Cruze Show⁠ 💰 ⁠George Kamel⁠ 🪑 ⁠Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman⁠ 📈 ⁠EntreLeadership⁠ ⁠Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey show. The phone number to jump in today, AAA 825-5-225, AAA-25-2-25 alongside the really, really sharply-dressed George Kim. I always like to see what adjective you're going to use on me today. You know, I got distracted from the adjective. I was looking at that shacket. That's a well-appointed shacket, George. As always, I'm Ken Coleman. We're here together for you.

Looking good is half the battle, Ken. It really is. So you're prepared as well. All right, let's go to Travis in Huntsville, Alabama. Travis, how can we help today? Hey, I am in $100,000 a debt, and I'm 22. I have two kids, but I make about $70,000. a year. Okay. Tell us more. What kind of debt is the $100,000? Break it down for us.

Well, the first one was my, I guess my 20-year-old idiot purchase, which was, at the time when I first got it, it was about a $75,000 truck from a loan rolled over. Now it's about at $60,000. I pay $1,200 a month on it. My second one is a $23,000 camper started at $30,000, pay that about $500 a month on it. And then the last one is a car for my wife, which I currently owe about $16,000 on.

Okay. And what is your goal today? What's the heart of the question? Well, I guess, so me and my wife have been talking a lot about getting rid of the truck. Because the reason we have the camper and the truck to begin with is because we were traveling on the road. I did just, I worked for a renovation company doing renovating government buildings, made a lot of money the first year. Contracts died out, you know, just slowed down, had to find another job back home where we had a little more stability. But we still live in the camper, and then the truck is the way to move the camper around.

Got it. So you're living in the camper full-time? You're not renting? You don't have a home? Okay. No, we're not renting. And we actually don't pay for rent at the campground because we volunteer for state parks. Cool.

So that kind of covers the fee. They kind of make it a wash. And I'm guessing you don't move around much anymore. You're not moving this camper much. No, not very far. Just around like, you know, like an hour from Huntsville. Right now we're an hour, so we're kind of far, but we can move. in a couple months.

Okay. And your wife is at home with the kids? Yeah. Not working outside the home? Okay. So 70K is what we're making. We've got 100K in debt. Have you looked into what the truck is currently worth, what the camper is currently worth,

you sold it privately? Yes, sir. So the private value on the Kelly Blue Book website is 36. So it's just really underwater on it. So 24 underwater on the truck. And then what about the camper? The camper, I don't know how much they depreciate. Honestly, I haven't looked into it.

They depreciate a whole lot. That's for sure. You think it's worth 10 or 15? 20? I might be able to get 10 out of it, and that would leave me a 13. Yep. So total, doing the math, you are $37,000 underwater on these vehicles. I mean, you cannot get rid of these until you come up with the difference somehow to clear the title.

Yes, sir. There's two ways you can do that. I have a question, as I'm listening here to George talk with you, have you run the numbers on the most affordable rent? Because you're already living in a trailer. So you make $70,000. It's not chump change. What would rent cost you? There's some places where I think we could get it for $1,000.

But some of those places with kids, I just wouldn't feel safe putting them in. And I know my wife would. Okay, but you went to the worst common denominator. So what I'm asking you is, I would never recommend you put your family in a place where your kids are unsafe. So let's re-ask the question. What does rent look like in a place where you don't feel like your kids are under threat? I would say maybe somewhere between 14 to 1,600. Okay.

Have you run a budget on what that, could you, you know, what would that do to your budget with your take home? Yeah. It would, you know, I get, you know, I get. 5,000 a month. Okay. That minus the car payment would be, you know, and say we had 1,500 rent. I get three grand back a month, not including expenses, but.

And the reason I'm walking through this with you, Travis, George, I mean, I want to Georgia hear that ratio. But the reality is, is like, you've got to get rid of this trailer. You're essentially paying $1,700 right now for rent. Yeah. Because the truck and camper are sinking you. The camper's losing value, so that's why I want you. George, is that too aggressive?

I'd like for him to let's find a place to live and get renting and let's get rid of the camper. Because if you sell the camper, you lose your housing. And so we've got to solve for that problem. The good news is the truck can go sooner because we don't technically need it right now. That's true. The issue is we need that money, either through savings, through future income, or through a loan from your local credit union. Is your credit good enough to get a loan from a credit union right now? Not really

Like I said When we were out of contracts I was out of work for about six months in Seattle And so I went It was just a couple months Of trying to get unemployment Just to stay above water And knock indoors

Do you have anything in savings right now Or anything you could sell? Anything I could sell I don't really have anything I could sell Per se We have a camper So we kind of live minimalistic as much as possible.

Don't really have anything in the camper. I mean, besides Hobby Lobby. Okay. And nothing in your savings account, correct? I have a little bit. I'm working on Baby Step 1, I believe. It's getting $1,000. Correct.

And think out, so we have maybe $300. And then I have a couple of Roth, two Roth IRAs and 401K, which I'm not going to touch. Good. Okay. Well, you're speaking the right language here. We got to get the thousand bucks first. Then we need to solve for this truck because that'll free you of $1,200 a month.

And so even if you take out a $24,000 loan, it's better than what you got right now at $60K. And so that's your next goal once you get the $1,000. And that's going to take some time. This is not going to be like, hey, we can just go do all of this tomorrow. But you're going to need to explore all of your options and try to get top dollar for these so that you can get out of this faster. and that might mean you're working two more jobs. Yeah. That's not going to be fun for the next year or two to clean this up.

But that's the only solution I'm seeing here to get you out of this without, you know, dangerous shortcuts. Yeah, I'm just going to reemphasize, Travis, the first step here is you've got to find a place to live so we can sell the camper. Yeah. Do you have any family nearby? We have some church family, but we wouldn't be able to stay with them long term. all my other family is same same deal not really not really fit so let's stay there um one one factor i didn't mention that i've been thinking about is my old boss he lives here in alabama he lives fairly close and he has offered to any time i need to move the camper to he would let me use

his truck for that um the one thing i would worry about he's very dependable and reliable but you never know what's going to happen he could move it could be broken down. But I was thinking if we could take care of the camper, we could still be able to kind of live rent free essentially if we can have the camper paid off. We're still in short-term thinking now. We've got to think about the bigger picture and getting out of this life we created, man. Most people just drift through life with their money. No plan, no budget, stuck on autopilot. But winning with money is intentional. That's a lot. That's That's why I love Fair Wins Credit Union.

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But I've been paying the amount that they said I would owe. But I do have credit card debt, so I'm wondering, do I put a pause on paying the parent plus loans because they're not technically due yet, and take that money I was paying to that and put that towards my credit card debt to get my credit card debt to go down faster. Is that the only debt you have is credit card? I have a small car loan that I pay $2.40 a month towards, and I probably owe about $3,800 left on the car, and I have $7,200 in credit card. the parent plus loans and I have a mortgage of a hundred that has about $150,000 left on it.

Okay, great. Are you familiar with our baby steps? Yes, I have $1,000 saved. Okay, great. Good. And what was the total amount for the parent plus loans? $55,000. Okay. And I'm assuming that's broken out across some different loans or is it all one giant loan? No, it's two children, three different loans. Okay. afford different loans maybe. Great. So this would still fall into your debt snowball, regardless if they're asking for payments or not. Because here's the truth, the interest is still accruing. And so the more we kick this cane down the road, the more that balance is going to balloon.

You're going to wake up to have a $65,000 loan. And so this would just fall right into your debt snowball. So list out your debt smallest to largest. Is the credit cards, is that multiple cards to make up the 72? There's two cards, yes. Okay. So like a few grand each? Yeah, there's two cards. One has $4,700 and the rest is on the other one. Okay. So this becomes pretty simple. We're going to knock out that first credit card, then the car payment, then the second credit card, and then start attacking these Parent Plus loans. Okay, but still keep making those... Make the minimum payments that they offer. Is there a minimum payment that you can pay? It's just not required?

Correct. Correct. Yeah, like they originally... had said, oh, if you started paying today, you should pay this and that, you should pay three or five a month. So that's what I've been paying. Good. I would continue down that path and just keep doing minimums and all of your debts except the smallest one and attack it. Because I'm looking at all of these debts.

Are you close to like 70 grand in debt right now? Without the mortgage. Yes. Okay. And what do you guys make a year? What's your household income? I make, I have two jobs. I make 110 between both of them. Fantastic. Well, there's some good news. So we can clean this up pretty fast.

I mean, if you can throw, let's say, 35, 40 grand a year of your net income towards this, you're done in two years. That would be amazing. That's it. And so I think part of this, Ken, it's hard to just like peel back and look at the big picture. Yeah. Versus just staring at all of the variables and deaths in front of you. Well, let's talk about the big picture because you just hit her with that, 35 to 45,000. thousand a year and it's almost like Marie we could hear that you were stunned by that you're you laughed and said that would be nice so let's talk about while we got george with us here on the budget he's the

budget guru is that believable to you it felt like it was almost unbelievable it's a little unbelievable because i and i feel that i i work really hard i have two jobs so and i listen to you guys and what you say but and i've been doing the debts noble so i just got rid of one credit card last week. So that was a little celebration way. But so my mortgage, I only owe 150, but my mortgage takes like $2,200 a month. Okay. That's why I wanted to lean in, because, you know, George has taken a shot there, but if, let's say, George, we use your number of 35, that's just about 3,000, a little bit less than 3,000 a month, net. So realistically, Maria, Marie, if you are very disciplined to the best of your knowledge right now,

what do you think you could put away every month with the two jobs after paying on your goals? So making minimums plus the extra. Yeah. What could you throw at all this debt? I usually, I mean, and I hear you. And I think you are probably right, but it almost sounds impossible, you know, when you're sitting on this side, because I do pay, you know, a thousand dollars to the credit card. and I do work extra or overtime at the first step.

Well, that's why I'm pushing in a little bit. I wanted to see if it is doable. So could you, what is the most money you could commit? We're not holding you to this. This is an exercise while we have you. What do you think is the most, I mean, I'm talking like extreme budgeting, saving, cutting expenses everywhere to George's question after you pay the minimums and your four walls, what do you think you could put on debt every month?

What number? I probably could put $1,000 a month. On top of your minimums is what you're saying. Yes. Okay, great. Because I'm doing the math here. 2750 gets you out of debt in 24 months. If you're doing all the minimums plus the extra, that should add up to 2750.

Now, two years, that was just, I'm just throwing something out there. On average, we find that people who follow our plan to a T, we're talking baby steps, budgeting, using every dollar, making the sacrifices. 18 to 24 months is the average. And based on the numbers you threw at me with your hundred, $110,000 income, $66,000 in debt, you are right there. That's going to be 18 to 24 months of sacrifice. And at first, you're going to feel like you're not making progress. But I'm telling you, month after month, in six months, you're going to have a few debts knocked out. Think about that. You free up the payments. Now we're throwing at the next debt.

And so the snowball starts to roll. And by the end, you are just, you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah, I love it. How about we just, that was a great locker room speech, George, even though you never played sports. I don't think I've been in a locker room other than me getting bullied in one. So what if we give her breaking free from broke? Oh, I love that. Because I think that's a mindset book in her situation. You like that?

It's your book. Yeah, that don't get you fired up about your debt, give you the path out in my voice. So there's a lot of jokes in there because you've got to have fun along the way. That's Marie. And what you've created right now is not fun. Taking on the Parent Plus loans, which is a noble thing to do. You want to help your kids. But here's the kicker.

That debt is in your name. The kids don't legally ever have to pay a dime and the interest rates are high. higher. And so these are not going away, even if it's, you know, the payment is deferred. The interest is still accruing and it is brutal. So I want to do a follow up on behalf of our larger audience, okay, because for the minutia sometimes, I want to make sure people get the principal. So in a Marie's situation, you told her to continue making what the minimum payments would be, even though that they're not asking for that money right now. Why did you get, why would we give that advice as opposed to saying, do the snowball on everything else but that, why that advice, George?

Well, if you're not making any payments at all and the interest is accruing, you've got a double whammy situation. That's right. Because you are not moving the needle at all with the principle. And so the only thing moving the needle is the interest adding to your balance. And we hear those stories because people, they weren't taught how interest works, especially when you're not making a payment. And so if you go punch the numbers into an interest calculator, you will find that balance will balloon. And who knows how long they'll be in school?

What if they're in school for another six years? And so you've got to just start creating the habit of knocking out this debt systematically. And the debt snowball method is the way to do it. So just ignore the interest rates because the way you're going to attack this thing, the interest isn't going to add up that fast over the next 18 months. I thought it was interesting to hear her brain and her reaction. It was really fun to hear that.

Wow, that would be nice. When we pressed in right now she's thinking $1,000 a month, I got a hunch, and Marie's still on the line. I think she could get more than $1,000 out of that budget. What do you think, based on your experience? Yeah, I mean, if you take 110 grand minus your taxes and you're going to pause all investing, so you're just going to pay your health care if that's through your job and all that. But whatever comes home, that's your number now that we've got to figure out.

You've got $2,200 in your mortgage. Okay, whatever's left. How little can we live on to throw as much as we can at the debt? Right. So four walls plus insurance, anything else, that can go. Everything else is a luxury at this point. That's right. And kudos, Marie is working two jobs, folks. I mean, so this is a superwoman here. She's hustling. In this case, you're looking to sell everything you can possibly sell.

What if you can sell five, $7,000? Maybe someone's just $8,000 to $10,000 worth of stuff. That again reduces that timeline. So again, we have a lot of new people joining us all the time and trying to understand the practicality of these steps. Listen, we didn't say it was easy. The steps are simple, but the work and the sacrifice is hard. but boy oh boy you heard how she reacted when george said i think it could get out in 24 months that's exciting stuff the quicker you get out the quicker you move on in your life with the dreams that you want to achieve this show is sponsored by better help sometimes it seems like everyone else's love life is this perfect little hallmark movie here's the truth married dating or single and trying to figure it out everyone is wrestling with what it means to be in a relationship i've been married for 23 and

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to Ramsey Solutions.com slash smarttax. Ramsey Solutions.com slash smart tax. All right, Charlotte, North Carolina is where we go next. John's got some type of a family issue here we need to talk about. John, what's going on? Hey, guys. Thanks for having me on the show. So my wife's mother and sister, not as well off financially as us. And we're coming up in our own financial journey to a point where we may be able to help them.

But we're having an issue when we talk about it because, and please I don't want to paint them in the bad line. I love them. They're great people. But in a lot of aspects of their lives, they are very much, we can't right now because people. You wouldn't understand because we've got three kids, you don't, that kind of thing. What is something that we could do when we get to the point that we can that we could help these people that we're not crossing the boundary, but we're also not enabling bad financial decisions? Okay.

Well, you answer that question. is there, let me flip this on it. And I'm going to set you up, sorry. I didn't mean to just. You answer. No, you called us, you tell us. No, here's what I want to know. You've already laid out.

George and I know exactly what you're saying. You're not in any way attacking them. However, here's my question for you. Let's just fast forward into this future that you just mentioned, where you're going to have some extra money. Is that what I might, is that me understanding correctly what you're saying? Yes, sir. Okay.

about $38,000 down and we got about $30,000 to go. No, no, I know. Don't worry about that. We're going to fast forward to your heart of your question. Okay? Let's fast forward to this future where you have some margin to where you could help them financially. In what area would you feel confident telling George and I, I help them, forget about the number, but I helped them how I could, and I feel like this help will actually make a difference.

Tell me the answer to that question. What area where you could help would actually make a difference and they wouldn't squander it and they wouldn't just, you know, motor through it? Where could you help them where it would make a difference? The biggest thing that we've discussed that I think could possibly work is if we were able to pay for a year of child care for their kids so that mom could go to work and help them financially because dad is kind of limited in his position with what he could make. Okay. If you were to do that, A, would she go get a job? Yes or no? I couldn't tell you.

I think so. And what if she doesn't? Is it conditional where you go, hey, you got to show proof of income? I don't like your answer, John. You realize what I'm doing here? I'm walking you through. Is this a good ROI? And your answer to that was, I don't know if she'd actually do it.

That's a bad sign, true or false? True. You see, so this is how I would come about this. My heart says I want to help. But I need to put real plans, real specifics together, and I just kind of walked you through this. And the first thing you said that you would do to help, there was no certainty at all that it would actually help. Because if you pay for child care, but she doesn't go get a job and thus get extra money, and then we didn't even ask you, even if she made the extra money, do you think that she would put it towards removing

debt? What's the answer to that? I think so. They've been watching our financial journey. So hopefully, we've been just hoping that they would see what we're doing. Have they asked questions? Have they even said they want help? Or is it just more, well, that's for you guys, but that's not a thing that we're going to do? Yeah, I think that's true, George, because we've offered them financial peace because we have it. We're actually waiting to start it because we want them to go through it. And they've had it and haven't done it, and we're getting frustrated because it's like, I want to help you. Let me help you. Right. But John, you just said a moment ago until George refrained that, you said you thought that they would

use that income of hers to help themselves. And now you're questioning that. So you see, this is the exercise, and I'm glad you called us, because we can be objective. We're not related to them. It sounds like to me that this is a bad investment. Here's the underlying fear. You don't help them. You don't help move forward. They just get comfortable for a while while you get super resentful because you're helping them and you're really putting putting yourself out there paying for child care for a whole year, all for them to not make any progress. Well, now the relationship's gone. You've lost all respect for them. And so until they are at a breaking point, until they have enough pain in their life that they're going, I guess we should put on that financial peace thing. We are running out of

options here. Yeah. I don't know that they're ready for it yet. I agree. That reminds me, George, the old phrase, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. And this is tough with family. So, George, I don't know where you're at. I'm going to say, John, I would not help until they say that, A, they want help and because they acknowledge they need help. And I think those are your two boundaries. And again, I would run through a similar exercise like I just walked you through. And my friend, you answered your own question. And I know it's a tough situation. I hate that. But you guys got your own financial journey. You got $38,000 to pay off. Let's go. Walk the baby steps, continue to do what you've been doing. Let's get out of that situation. Make your life better and let the chips fall where

they fall with other people. Let's go to Jonathan next, who is in Fairfax, Virginia. Jonathan, how can we help today? Hi. Long-time listeners, first-time caller, my dad, actually, he's really a big fan of the show. And right now I'm just got a little question about how to find housing. at my current stage of life. I just graduated college about two years ago, and I've been working as an RN for about a year and a half. I'm about to get a raise, and I'm still looking around trying to find good housing without breaking the bank and just like being able to save continuously after that, and it just seems like a really big struggle for me right now. Give us some real numbers. I know the Northern Virginia area. If you're in Fairfax area,

I know that area. That's an extremely expensive place to live. Give us the numbers. for George and I what you're looking at for a rent? So honestly, I'd take really anything. I'm really trying to reduce my commute as well, though. And in the Fairfax, Fair Oak, specific area, which is where my hospital is, it's around 1,500 at base price, as far as I've seen. I've asked a few realtors, but it comes to it about there. What have you been paying in this two years since you've been out of school?

I've actually just been staying at home. My dad's very gracious. He's allowed me to stay at home for $200 a month. Additionally, a few other utilities in there. Okay. What's your income now, and you also told us that you're about ready to get a raise, so give us those two numbers, where you are now and then what your new raise will look like? Right now, I believe it's 90 a year, and further than that, in about a month and a half, I think it goes up to probably 93, 94. Do you have any debt payments?

I do not, no. And you're worried about $1,500 a month? Just a little bit. Well, compared to $200, sure. But that's a false reality. Yeah, George is in the middle of this stuff. George, what do you think about $1,500 a month for this guy? If you're taking home about $6,000 a month, $1,500 is right on the mark.

We tell people 25% of your after-tax income is what you want to stay in for housing, whether it's rent or a mortgage. And here's the other thing. That's for you living alone, right? Yeah, here we go. Teller, George. Can I tell you? I don't want to pull out, you know, like I'm a pioneer woman or something, but I had roommates all the way up until I was married because I couldn't afford an apartment on my own.

But you can, but if we've already established you could afford it, but to George's point, if it gives you a stomach problems, fine. If it's two-brunate for a two-bedroom and now you rents a thousand bucks, you'd feel a little better, wouldn't you? And you're splitting utilities as well. I definitely love you as if I could find something, but you're right. There's, I mean, Facebook groups all over for roommate finders and apps and ask around to your friends. I mean, you've got young guys you work with probably. And so that's, you got to put a little effort. You know where I'm at, George, on this.

What's that? You've proven that he's fine. Financially, he's got a great upper path. He's got no debt. You know what? This is quality of life. Jonathan, I think you've got to focus on how much life is going to be better not commuting way out into Fairfax. I know what that traffic is like.

But it's scary to fly the coop, Ken. He's comfy. But once you start thinking about not driving in the seventh level of hell every day, there's a really nice tradeoff. Life is about tradeoffs, George. That's right. Hey, what's up? This is Dr. John Deloney from my friends at Mama Bear Legal Forms.

I spend a lot of time talking with people about anxiety, relationship challenges, and all kinds of other things that keep people up at night. One thing I'm always telling everybody is that peace does not come from avoiding hard things. peace comes from facing hard things and directly walking through them. One of the hard things we all face is our own mortality. And if you've got kids or people you love, creating a will is one of the most important things you can give them. I'm such a big fan of Mama Bear.

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Hi, my husband refinanced her car, and now, we have a 25% APR and wondering what we should do. Oh, boy. What caused this refinance? So we had... What was the original APR? The original was 14. And he was trying to get money to pay some things and decided to take out $3,000 on top of the car loan.

And that's what happened. Yikes. Why would we do that inside of the car loan? There's so many ways to get $3,000, even though it's a terrible idea to go into debt for any of it. But why refinance the car loan to get $3,000 out? I think because it was the fast, well, so he had originally applied for a personal loan,

but his credit wasn't very good. And so they told him that he could do it through the car loan as like a secured, I don't know. Yeah, it's a secured debt. He didn't involve me in the podcast. And so they go, if this guy can't pay, we get a car out of it, so we're willing to do it. Oh, and by the way, his credit shot, so the APR is 25% because he's a risky borrower.

So I want to dig here because you laid it out for us very clearly, and you said, what do we do? Is we involved here, or is it just you? It sounds like he made a really desperate move. Yes, he did, and it is we involved. Okay. But, yeah, I wasn't included in that decision, so. Yeah, but he's now going, okay. I screwed up and I need some advice.

Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. Any other debt? Because that helps us with this answer. Yeah. We have a credit card debt, student loan debt, personal loan. What's the total of all the debts?

It's about, oh gosh. Like just under, let's see, like $70,000. Okay. What do you guys mean? make a year as a household? About 70,000. Wow. Are you guys both working full-time? No, I'm a stay-at-home mom. Okay, so he's pulling in 70. Yeah, and 13 and 1. Oh, for the ages. You just got restarted again. Yep. All right, so I have to ask, because I think this is, this is this kind of level of intensity. Are there any type of skills, work experience that you

have that would allow you to do some work from home. I know the one-year-old is that's a full-time job. Don't want to minimize that in any way. However, you got 24 hours in a day just like everybody else. Is that even possible? And what do you think you could do to make some money? Yes, so it is possible. I actually just finished school, so I'm going to be pursuing something, hopefully, from home. I also homeschool, so there's that as well. But I... Is that going to be possible if you're working full-time? Probably not full-time.

I'm hoping to find something part-time from home. What's your degree in, and what will the job be that you're hoping for? Holistic wellness, and, like, I'm also certified in personal training, so something with personal training and health and wellness. So like your private coaching for nutrition, wellness, okay, all of that. And that's a little more flexible. You can kind of do that on your own schedule. Well, I will point out, you have to go get clients.

That's a whole different ballgame when you're doing it for yourself. So I'm going to just point that out that that is difficult, not saying you can't do it, but I would give yourself some realistic goals. And if in a month or two or three months, we're not signing up any clients, not getting anybody interested, you need to work for somebody else. and that's just a reality right now. You know, you guys got to bring in more income. Do you have any savings at all? No.

What's left on the car balance after this refinance? So he just refinanced it. So it's bidding around, I think, 17, 18,000. Okay. What is the vehicle worth private party value? 7,200. Okay. So we're 10 grand underwater.

So there's our number. If we want to get out from under this 25% APR, which is going to cause the balance to balloon if we're not attacking it, then we need to get out from under it by creating this 10 grand, either by saving future income or taking out a loan from a credit union, which I'm guessing is not an option because he's tried that and his credit is shot. Yeah. Is your credit shot as well? Are you tied to this? No. No, I'm not. I was on the original loan, but when he refinanced, I was taken off, I guess. Okay, you would, I would see. Now, it's going to be tough because you don't have income. And so they, I don't know if they'll look at the whole picture if you're the one taking out the loan in your name. You know, they're not going to allow him to be a co-signer, I don't think. But if you can go to your local credit union and get a loan for the difference, that at least gets you out from under this. Is there another vehicle that you guys can use right now? No. This is your one car? Yep. Okay. Well, the other option is you attack it with a vengeance. I mean, having an $18,000 worth of vehicles making $70 is not the problem. The problem is the behavior that got us here, adding to the pile, going back into debt, crazy interest rates, a lot of desperation. And it sounds like a lot of this was done without any teamwork. It was just kind of him on his own at a desperation, and you were an unwilling accomplice? Or did you know about all this? Yeah. No, I didn't know until after it was done. So the new loan, George, is 17?

17, 18 grand left on the loan at 25%. All right. So what does he do for a living? He drives garbage trucks. Is he handy? Yeah. I'm telling you right now, he's the one. Now, you've already said what you were going to do.

And so if he were on the phone, be going, hey, buddy, you did this. You ought to feel a massive burden. I'm sure he does. but outside of driving that garbage truck, if he's handy, he's working in a warehouse, he's doing whatever he can, 25 an hour, whatever he can do. He can haul just for people in the neighborhoods. I tell you what, the one-year-old needs you, and I say this not knocking him, but saying this as a father of three, for the next year, the one-year-old doesn't really need him that

much. He needs to be working, and the truth is, is he doesn't even work for a year. It's like, I would be circling $18,000 if I were your husband, and I would be going, how quickly can I make $18,000 outside of my $70,000 job? George, that would be my intensity. You agree, disagree on that? I mean, does that change their life initially? Gets us out from underneath that massively bad loan that's just putting them in quicksand.

Yeah, when your debt is the same as your income, I see there's a big problem here. Now, if your debt was 140 grand and you got 70, we could solve this within 18 to 24 months. And so what that tells me is we need to get aggressive, getting the money. this income up. And that might be him getting two more jobs. That might be you getting a full-time job. And we put the kids in school, daycare, whatever we need to do right now to solve this crisis. And that's what it is. It's a crisis. That's right. But, Kathy, you guys can get out of this. But it's both of you. It's two points you want you to walk away with on this call. Both of you have to work more and make more. And both of you have got to be super aligned on a budget that allows for no extra spending on anything

other than just the four walls. You got it? Got it. You up for it? Yep. Yeah. Okay. Game on.

Because this is doable. George, what's your calculation if they were to do that? And I know you don't know numbers. Yeah, I'm saying if they get the income up. Two and a half to three years. If they stay status quo and try to do it with their current income, I think this would take four to five years. Yeah.

And the balances would just grow with this level of interest. I mean, the credit cards are high interest. The car is high interest. And who knows about the personal. loan and student loans, but there's debt surrounding us right now. And so we've got to get on that debt snowball. We've got to get the spending down. We're going to make some deep sacrifices right now. In your bestselling book, Breaking Free from Broke, you write a lot about traps. Of course, you coach, you sit here and co-hosts the show all the time. I think this is important.

What is happening? What is the emotional trap that causes a guy like this to take such a crazy, desperate loan for only $3,000. What is happening? What do you know? Well, it starts with, I can afford the payment on this one thing. And while the student loan does an investment in my future, and while the personal loan, we'll knock that out fast. And so it's a lot of good intentions and they're a little bit delusional and starry-eyed about the fact they can carry this. And then a spouse wants to stay home. And they go, well, yeah, that's a very noble goal. You got to stay home. We'll figure it out. And then desperation leads to refinancing the car loan. And so it's not one thing. It is death by a thousand cuts that got us there, and it's death by a thousand cuts that's going to get us out.

And it's much easier to go into debt than it is to get out. That's the hard truth. The dealership will always be happy to refinance at 25% APR. And so you're going to have to hustle. Both of you need to be a team maybe for the first time in your marriage to clean this up. This is Dave Ramsey. We all want to know that the money we give to charity is doing something that matters, that it's making a real change, giving someone lasting hope. And here's one way to make sure of that. Give to preborn. They're the real deal. Proven, transparent,

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Go now to preborn.com slash Ramsey or call 855-601-2229. That's preborn.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us. The phone number to jump in today, AAA 825-5-225. George, you take lead on your money questions. I'll take lead on your winning at work. If you're feeling stuck, a lack of balance, months in your life, feeling burned out. That's going to affect all your money stuff, too. So we can combine any of those calls. I'd love to hear from you. Let's start it off with Sabrina, who joins us in Atlanta, Georgia. Sabrina, how can we help? Hi, thank you for taking my call. So I'm a single mom. I had a retirement and a home, and got scammed out of my retirement from my ex. He said he'd be in

I could make more money on investments and stocks. He was able to do that, and I pulled out 85K, which, of course, I had to pay a penalty. I'm 54 years old currently. And so now I'm basically starting from scratch. I have some sold my home, so I have some money saved. And I'm just trying to figure out where I need to go from here. I do have a special needs child. And I just want to make the right decisions going forward and really, you know, building for my retirement because I am, you know, 54.

How much do you have saved off of the sale of the home? So I had to pay a lot of debt back because my ex was a squatter for a year and a half in the home. So 35,000 in a CD. If I dumped that in a CD that matures in March. My high yield, I put 10,000 in a high yield savings account. And then in another savings, it's $1,200. And then I have some debts. How much debt do you have left?

So $6,500 and credit card. my car 13,000 it's worth 10,000 I got it during the pandemic so it's a little upside down What's the before we go forward

What's the car payment on that? 486 a month Ooh Yes Let's stop right there And it's 96,000 miles And I've already In the last year

I've dumped $8,500 in repairs Yeah, but I mean, it's still, that's a car that, you know, I'm just, I'm going to jump in right there, George, because of the money she's gotten savings. If we could pay that off, that saves you $486 a month immediately. You would feel that, yes or no? Yes. Okay.

Keep going on the debts, but I just wanted to jump in, like, that's a, that is low-hanging fruit because you've got cash today to pay that off. George, you don't have any problem with that, do you? No. I mean, the C is maturing in March. So today you can knock out the credit cards with your high-yield savings. Okay. And then as soon as that matures, I would use 13 grand of it and knock out the car. What else do you have?

I have an attorney's bill for 10K. Okay. Anything else? Oh, I have a term life insurance that's – I only pay $360 a year. It ends in 2031, and it's for $200,000. thousand dollars so I didn't even know if I should even like stop that but do you have any kids you said you're a single mom I'm a single mom special needs child teenager yeah you're gonna need that money if something were to happen to you I mean even though it's 200k that's still money that can be used

to help take care of your child and eventually you're probably going to need a special needs trust well that's part of the 10k okay 5k for the attorney is for the 12th court case that I had or have currently. And the other 5K was to hire a wills and trust attorney to set a trust and will because I need to protect my son. And that's a priority for me right now. It should be. I love that. You've got term life insurance. You've got a will and a trust. You're doing some good things here. And the good news is, you have any other debt outside of that? I heard the three. Okay. So you've got 30K in debt and you've got $45,000 essentially liquid.

Yes. Have you been debt-free in your adult life? Before my ex, yes. So why don't we call this a new slate and say this is post-X Sabrina. She's starting a new chapter. She's got a lot of life ahead of her. We're going to go into this thing completely debt-free with $15,000 in the bank. You hear me? Okay, yes. Now that we have a foundation, now we can begin investing for the future and rebuilding what we've lost. How sure are you that that money is gone?

Did he spend it? What did he do with this money? Well, I can't get that answer because I tried. And as soon as I stood up to get an answer, it became from, oh, I went to stock. Oh, no, I went into real estate investments. Now he's telling the attorneys that I agreed on putting it in a business, and that business went defunct. Okay.

But I'm dumping money to get discovery, and it's not happening, and I don't want to dump any more money in the attorneys. If this is a lost cause and this guy's a piece of work, then I would move on and just start investing with your current income. How much are you making a year? So I had to take up a W2 to stabilize in the last two years of this cases. So I make 50K gross with the W2, and then I have my own business that brings in 75K in gross, but I only pull about 20 to 30. Okay, so we'll say you make 80 grand a year?

Yes. Okay. So you will be in baby step four if you follow what we told you. off the debt, park the 15K, call that your emergency fund. Maybe you want to add a little bit to it to get to three to six months of expenses, maybe six months since you're a single mom with a special needs kid. But 15%, that's 12 grand a year you would be investing. So we're going to do $1,000 a month from 54, and likely, the truth is you're going to have to work longer than you wanted to, right? To maybe, let's say, 68 or 70. Is that fair? And you're starting with zero in

retirement, correct? Yes. Okay. Okay. You can could have over half a million dollars from 54 to 70 investing that grant into, you know, mutual funds inside of retirement accounts. Okay. I'd love to know more about the business. You said your grossing 75, you're only taking out 20 to 30. Does that mean that you're stocking away what we would call retained earnings or that's all you have to be able to take out as a net?

Well, I'm a little funny on those. numbers just so you know, because I'm new in the business is like my third year in the business. Okay. So I do, I do like owner draws that are not consistent. Okay. Is the business fairly healthy, though? What I'm saying is, is it mostly profit for you or is it running really tight? It's mostly profit for me because I don't have overhead.

What's the business? Tell me in five seconds. What the business is? Professional home organizing. I help people declutter and organized. Isn't that fascinating? You're the professional organizer and you don't have a grasp on your own numbers. Get yourself a good bookkeeper.

I'm not chastising you, but I am saying you have it in you. You want to know those numbers because I see a great path. The reason I'm asking these questions is as you grow that business, George, I see tremendous potential for you to grow. Scale that thing? To scale it, pay yourself more after you run through the advice George gave you. But this is an opportunity to play catch up. Get a good tax pro.

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Eagle Housing Lender. All right, Brandon is up next in Oklahoma City. Brandon, how can we help you today? Hey, first of all, excited to be on. Thank you guys for having me. Sure. Okay, yeah. So I'm in an industry, I'm an oil and gas industry, and the job volatility in what I do is it's up and down a lot. I'm on step two, pay off your debt using the debt snowball method, but I already have three to six months of expenses set back in savings, and I'm ready to start paying down on some of the debts outside of the mortgage. I'm just having trouble taking that leap because I've been through this cyclical thing of working for a couple years and then the oil and gas market dies and you lose your job for a year

and then it comes back and you make good money and then you lose your job. And so I'm ready to jump in, but I just wanted to know what you guys take was on it and how you think I should move forward in that situation. Well, I have a question first before George, coaches you know what to do. This has happened to you before in the oil and gas industry. This idea of where everything's hot, making great money, and then the market changes, I'm guessing. This has happened to you more than once or just once? This is my fourth run. Okay. So here's my question for you. What would need to change?

What would need to be true having weathered this before? If this happens again, what would need to be true? what would the new reality need to be to where you could weather that storm? You tell us. The new reality would need to be I mean, I think we would need to be paid down to where it was just our mortgage and it would be a lot easier to survive

in between those and or move on to something else and not get in and out of the industry itself. Have you gotten into any of this debt while in this industry? Yes. Okay. Can I just poke a little bit and have some fun? You can ask me anything you want. If you're truly scared of volatility, why would you go into debt? Because debt is risk, and it robs your income. And so if you know this income might not be there, that in your brain, the risk factor was broken.

And you just answered my question by saying the thing that would make it easier is that we only had a house payment. Right. And we've been in that position before. What happened? We decided to buy the lot that was connected to us, and we built an office here at our house, and made some investments. We felt like we wanted to continue to work remote and do what we were doing at the time. So based on what I've heard, Brandon, you presented to George and I that you're afraid of using the cash you have stocked up to pay off your debt when what you should be afraid of is investing in a loft next to you, investing in other things. Do you see where the fear is misplaced? Yes. You're choosing

which risk you want to keep. And we're telling you if savings is peace. You're right. You are half right. Having the savings there gives you peace. The problem you're forgetting is that debt equals risk. and the key to permanent piece is getting rid of the debt, and I think you're a little comfortable because you've got three to six months of expenses saved. Why work that much harder? Why sacrifice that much more? We would be okay if something happened for a little bit.

And I think getting rid of that savings and putting it on the debt will light a fire under you and it will expose the reality of your situation. And again, I want to remind you, Brandon, your words, if you emptied out the savings today and paid off all debt and you get laid off, You said that you could weather it based on three other times. You have experienced.

So you were speaking from experience to George and I. Yeah. Correct? Yes. So were you telling us the truth? Yeah, I'm telling you the truth. I fluctuated in and out of the real estate market in real estate sales as a broker here between those times where I've been in oil and gas. And I've had success in that also.

So here's the key factor. You're not scared of hard work. So if something were to happen and you didn't have the savings, you would go work your butt off to cover it and then get back on the plan. Get back on the horse. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So let's get tactical. How much do you have in debt? Consumer debt. How much do you have in savings? Okay, so total debt's around 200K. That's with the house. Skip the house. Put the mortgage aside. That's a baby step six item. Yeah. So outside of that, I have 30K on a business equity line of credit.

that's attached to an investment property we own. Okay. And then I have 20K in a lot loan. So it's a piece of land that's attached to our primary residence. All right. And then I have 20K in a home equity line of credit. All right. So we're looking at 70K out of the 200?

Yeah, and we have about, yeah, and we have about 40K in cash. Great. Here, tell me, you can knock out of the $70k. the lot loan and the heloc today. Yes. Do it. Double dog dare you? And the other thing is, all of this is tied to your property. So you're putting

your house on the block triple right now. Because all of this has collateral, doesn't it? If you don't pay, that's how the helot works. Yes. And so for a guy telling me that you're afraid of risk, you've all collateralized. You've taken a whole lot of risk on. Yeah. So knock both of those out. You've got 30K

left. Use your future income, which how much are you making as a household? Sounds like you guys make good money from the oil field. Yeah, so I make about 120 when it's going. And my wife, she got laid off last year. She's a medical coder. She got laid off last year to AI, but she's back right now temporary,

and she makes about $40K when she's working full-time. Great. So for both hustling, we'll make $160. We got 30 left to pay down on the line of credit at that point for that business line of credit, which will get knocked out within months. making 160. Yeah.

I'm talking less than six months. And I've got one... Yeah, and I've got one more question for you guys. I was going to ask, what are your thoughts on, as I'm doing what I'm doing right now in oil and gas, on trying to bust back into the real estate market again. So I have something to transition back into when the oil and gas goes down again. What are your thoughts on that? My quick take is you really can't win at real estate part-time.

and so if you're talking about being a real estate. So then I don't think that's smart unless that's your goal long term. So if that's what you want to do long term, you know, let's go. But let's do it after we take care of what George. We got the present. We need to win and let's use what income we have right now to get out of debt and we'll walk through baby step three and then be in baby step four. And then let's look at transitioning to whatever. That's one year from now.

Do you see that? You pay off the two debts today. You got 30K left. That gets knocked out in six months. Another six months for your fully funded emergency fund to stock back up. Now we've got a real foundation. That's actual financial piece. I like it. And so at that point, you have options, man. Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, absolutely. Listen, you've been afraid of the wrong things. Okay. There's no fear walking out the plan George laid out for you. None. No fear. Okay. There's some hardship.

There's some sacrifice. Right. But on the other side of that is to Georgia's point, if you want to go into real estate full-time, then after I got this debt done and I got a three to six months, three to six months, by the way, and then I'd go all in on real estate because you've got to build up a pipeline, but you've got some experience. You've dabbled in it sounds like before. But now when I hear real estate-

Yeah, I've been full-time in it before. I'm hearing sales, not you investing. I'm hearing you're a realtor. Is that what I'm hearing? Yes, I'm a real estate, bro. We have a property that we have a property that we bought. Oh, I know. We heard.

Invested in a commercial piece of property. Well, real estate people famously have their risk meter broken. And any cash they do have, they want to immediately deploy back into investments because, well, I can make way more money in real estate. But then it leaves us an alert here. So I think Ken is right. You've misplaced the fear. Your fear right now is, what if I have a $30,000 emergency and I don't have the savings? The true fear is you have $70,000 in debt that is tied to.

your home. That's the thing we should be attacking. And you'll get there in no time, man. You work hard. You make great money. We just got to retool some things and clean it up. A year from now, you'll be in a very different place. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And oh, you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've

lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. They don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly. These are the two options. Take care of your dadgum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off dads, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad, to just miss you.

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family, term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team of Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-42. 82. If you are working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using every dollar.

It's more than a budgeting app now. This is the entire plan that we teach, the baby steps, all of it right in the middle of this world famous now app. Oh, it's so fun. Track your progress. Get personalized recommendations. And coaching, actual coaching for your situation to help you free up more money. It's like having one of the Ramsey hosts.

with you every day, showing you the next right step. Start it for free. Just kick the tires. Download it now in the app store or Google Play. Let's go to Carol in Denver now. Carol, how can we help you today? My question is, what are your thoughts about using AI in tax planning and preparation? Oh, that's a hard pass for me.

George, what got you here? What made you go? you know what? I'm going to let Chad GPT handle this one. I was presented with a document from the accounting firm requesting that I authorized AI to be used, and some of it would be overseas, and I'm apprehensive about that. Oh, so you're going through an actual tax planning firm? Yes. Okay. They're just using, they're just sort of speeding up the process by,

using AI. And we're going to see this everywhere. Almost every organization is going to start using AI to help move things along, you know, reduce the amount of resources they need. And so that doesn't worry me as much. I thought you were just on your own trying to do tax planning with an AI, you know, tool. Yeah. No. No. And it's the accounting as well because the accounting firm does the tax, you know, taxes. And therefore, would they be using an oversee entity? to be able to help. Well, you just need to ask. You know, this is, here's the thing we preach all the time on any trusted, Ramsey

trusted service. We want people to understand what the firm or the person is doing for them. So they explain it to you to where you go, oh, okay. So if you have questions about that, okay, how is AI being used in the preparation of my taxes? You know, if overseas, what's going on, just ask those questions. And somebody with great service who really cares. about you and values you as a customer, certainly has the heart of a teacher. He's going to have no problem answering those questions.

But George is right. I'm not sure you're going to be going anywhere in this country or any other country with professional services that have a decent amount of clerical, administrative work where AI is not going to be used. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the call.

That's a good question, George. Yeah. And if you're not comfortable with it, just go, no, thank you. and you can reach out to a tax pro. And you can find one of those at Ramsey Solutions.com and you can ask them, hey, what role does AI play in the way you do tax planning? Yeah. And if you don't like to answer, you can move along to someone who does it old school.

Yeah. All right. Real quick, fun question for our next call. Are you scared of AI or are you excited for AI? I'm personally not scared. Okay, good. And I'm going to stick to the positives and, you know, how helpful it can be versus is it going to take over and destroy everything. Maybe.

All right. But until then, I'm going to just live my life. And you're a guy that operates with a decent level of anxiety. So people should take that with a serious shaker of salt. That is true. But I'm also very pragmatic and I like to be efficient. And I think AI can be a great tool and use properly. Technology does not scare George Camel.

Stephanie is up next in Detroit. Stephanie, how can we help you? Yeah, about five months ago, my uncle passed away. I'm so sorry. in his home. Okay. Thank you. When he passed away, we wanted to sell the home because it was only a two-bedroom home,

and it's like 30 minutes away from my kid's school. And not in the school district. And since then, we've had issues with property boundary lines, and we've been working with a realtor. And now since all this, we've started to love the property. And I'm wondering what is financially the best decision to do. Either sell the home or do renovations to make it a little bigger. Okay.

Let's play this out. the home and so you started thinking about making improvements, what would be the future of that? Why, in other words, why make those improvements? Why do you love it? It's on a lake. Okay. So would this be a secondary home? We would sell where we're living now and move into the answer. That's exactly what I was getting at. So now it comes down to, okay, the boundary issues. You brought up, there's been some challenges. Is that something that's easy to navigate and you now have some clear

direction on it or is it going to be a headache ongoing? We're not sure. We're still in the process of it. Well, I can tell you just... I wouldn't think about selling my current home and moving into Uncle's home, no matter how much I love it and how awesome the lake is. If there were some boundary issues, that scares me to death, George. I would get clarity on that before deciding anything.

Here's the key question to ask, though. Would you buy this house today if it weren't inherited? Let's say you had the cash, you knew what it was worth, you could pay cash for it, and you said, would you say probably not? Yeah, probably not. Why? I didn't really go to because it's out of our kids' school district. Then how would you move there today? Well, the school's on the way to my husband's work.

Okay, but it would be a pretty big commute for him to get to work, for the kids to go to school. It would be inconvenient for your life as it stands today. Yeah. Yeah, you just answered the question. George asked it as plainly as he could. You just said, no, I wouldn't buy it if my uncle didn't give it to us. So based on that, and the boundary issues, I would solve the boundary issues so that we could sell it. The other piece of this, do you have financial goals where if you sold this house, it could really solve some other problems?

Do you have any debt? Do you have a mortgage? We have debt. We actually live in a trailer, and we have about $60,000. in debt. Is the long-term plan to live in a trailer? No. Okay, what could this house sell for? We were told about 150, $200,000.

Okay, so think about it this way. Is that all cash coming to you? Does it have any debt, in other words, on the house? Well, we have about $30,000 on the home. What do you mean on the home? And the mortgage for the trailer. No, no, I'm talking about Uncle's House. It's paid for. Oh, no.

It's paid for Okay, great, okay So if you could walk away with 200 grand Pay off your 60K in debt, pay off the 30 on the trailer, you still have 110 left potentially for a down payment on a home that will go up in value

unlike the trailer? Correct. Yeah, I'm doing that all day long versus taking a vacation home that you may or may not live in. You guys have some priorities right now. So I'm going to take this inheritance as a blessing

that puts you guys on a very different path than the one you're on right now. Okay. Because the current path is not a great one. Can we all say that out loud? Yeah. We're $90,000 in debt. The trailer's going down in value,

which means you're probably upside down on it, and we need some stability. And what your uncle did is a huge blessing to give you guys a different trajectory for your financial future and for your family tree. Yes. And maybe one day you do buy a house on the lake.

But right now, if you guys had no debt, you had plenty in savings and retirement. You were on track to be multi-millionaires. I'd say just keep it and for fun for now and maybe in the future you use it. But you guys aren't in that place. And so I would sell it, absolutely, and get rid of it as soon as you can and use that money to pay down your debt, get a fully funded emergency fund, and use the rest toward a down payment. Okay.

Yeah, you got a good plan. Do you have a good real estate pro on your team right now helping you solve all this? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fantastic. I'm telling you, get that solved. priority number one is to get whatever boundary issues, get all that clear so that you can list

this house and then follow George's plan to T. You guys are going to be living it up. What a great position of being. You know, so sad that you lost your uncle, but boy, did he bless you. And we want to make sure you maximize this blessing, okay? All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you for the call. I love reverse engineering it like that. If would you do this today under on volition versus it falling in your lap? And if the answer is no, you got to go, All right. This isn't the move.

Yeah. I love it. As much as you could justify it. Yeah. Do your shark tank. I love when you do that. Oh, and for those reasons, I'm out. I love entrepreneurs.

Don't forget, guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing. thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got NetSuite. That was years ago, and we've never looked back. See, NetSuite isn't just for tech giants. It's

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All right, today's question of the day is brought to you by why refi defaulted private student loans do not fix themselves, but they can be fixed. Why refi helps you by refinancing defaulted private student loans into a low fixed rate payment that fits your budget so you can clean up the mess and move forward with a plan. Visit yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's why REFY.com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Colin in Georgia. My wife and I recently started the baby steps and are quickly paying off debt. We purchased a home two years ago with a 30-year mortgage. Once we pay off our debts, should we refinance ourselves to a 15-year mortgage? The mortgage is currently 25% of our take home. We can put extra money towards the mortgage once we get past Baby Step 3. What would you suggest? This would be a more information needed situation. I agree. Because it's not that simple. Now, we love for people to do. get the 15-year mortgage. But if you're already in a 30, it's not a yes, go do this today. You've got to look at the interest rates and how much the refinance is going to cost you to find out how quickly

you would break even. So if you would break even on this loan in six months, then sure, go for it. But if it's going to take a while to break even because of the current rates and the rate you currently have, it's okay to keep the 30 that you got and just pay extra like it's a 15 or even better like it's a five or 10 and just get out of that thing as soon as you can. But if you want to crunch the numbers, call up our friends at Churchill Mortgage. They'll be happy to run the numbers for you to tell you, honestly, does this make sense for you right now? Yeah, love that. Good advice there. Thanks for the question. All right, we're going to go to Jesus in Dallas, and it looks like our notes telling me that he's got a gigantic car payment, George. It might give you a little indigestion. So I've got the fake tums over here ready to go. So let's see how we can help out there. Hey, Seuss, tell us what your question is today. Hello, good afternoon, guys. Happy to be speaking to you guys this afternoon. My only question is, well, I have other questions that we have time for,

but my main question is, how can I get out of the car loan that I have? It's $34,000 in total. My monthly payment is $830 a month. And I recently got to evaluate it. for 14,750, and my bank is maybe federal credit union. And I basically asked them if I could get a loan for the balance so I can sell it. And they denied me. So I was kind of left at a loss.

I don't know what to do next. And they're the ones that are holding a loan? No. Okay. No, yeah. All right. So you said you got it evaluated. What do you mean by that?

Who told you the car is worth 14? Kelly Bluebucks. I haven't taken it to like any place where they physically looked at it, but, you know, I put all the details. But you're saying the private party value was 14-750. Yeah, if that's a good number to basically trust Kelly Bluebock. Yeah, I was just making sure it wasn't the trade-in value, which is always going to be much lower. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

So you are $20,000 underwater. What other debt do you have? I have no other debt. I've been listening to you guys for close to a year now, and I managed to pay off my credit cards. I just have this car loan now. Good. What do you make? 77,000 a year, and I'm a diesel mechanic, so my monthly changes is either under or higher. But that's what my salary is. Do you have options for not just regular overtime with your company, but freelancing? if you will, given your unique skills? I, you know, definitely thought about it, but I have not explored it because I'm, like, so

invested in to where I work. I just worked so much over here. How much? How much is a lot? Like 55 to 60 hours. 60 hours would be like an extreme, but normally 50 hours. How much were you putting away towards the credit cards while you were paying them off? What was the most amount out of your monthly budgets that you were putting on that debt?

On the credit cards? Yeah. I kind of wasn't putting, I was just doing the snowball. And when I, at the end of the month, so it was the way I do it, I save to pay off the month first. And then anything extra I put it towards the cards. And I just did that. Anything extra I had, I just throw it out the card. So what was the average amount extra that you had to throw at debt per month?

At 1,000, $1,300, $1,300 at the end of the month, yeah. Okay. Could you do more today now that those payments are gone? Yeah, of course. I could not that much more, maybe like $1,500, $1,600 a month. Great. So here's your options. Number one, you get a loan for the difference, which you've tried one place.

They said no. You can always try a different place. The other option is saving the difference in cash in order to clear the title and sell it. Now, you still need more money to then go buy a different car, right? That's your only vehicle? Yeah. Well, I bought my fiancé cash car, we're here recently like a week ago. Why'd you buy her a car? Because I'm the reserve military, and I do a lot of driving. And when I'm away, she has no way of getting to work or not also an important part of information we're expecting a baby girl.

Oh, wow. Congrats. Thank you. So for the experience. days that I'm supposed to leave. I leave like five days at a given time. Okay. So do you need two cars right now or could you survive as a one car family? We can survive. We've been doing one car since we've known each other. Okay. So here's your other options on what I'll suggest. You can either save up the 20K real fast, aggressively. Like let's say if you can save up 2K a month, we got the 20K in 10 months to get rid of this. Or you just just pay the car off aggressively and keep it.

Now, it's a lot of your world, but you've rolled over negative equity, so it's not a true picture, because generally we say don't let your, you know, the total amount of vehicles, things with motors and wheels, add up to more than half of your annual income. And with her cash car, you're probably there and over a little bit over. But that's your other option. If you want to keep it, you pay it off aggressively. That's $34,000. If you can put, you know, $1,600 a month, it's going to take a while, but you could do it.

But because you only need one car, I like the plan of you throw on. two or three grand a month of this thing and being done before the end of the year to get rid of it. Right. To get out from under this line. Good idea and everything, but... But what?

But given that our baby girls come in here, late April, early May, I'm doing the stork mode. Got it, so you're stacking up cash. Okay. How much do you have saved right now? I have about three and a half right now. And I expect to have, well, like, 7,000 by the time she's born.

When do you guys get married so that we can put those incomes together? So, well, we would love to get married immediately, but my mother, it's a situation with, like, an immigration case, and the lawyers basically said it's not a good idea to get married yet. I really didn't challenge it from there. I just kind of said, okay. Because of your mother? Because of my mom, I'm in an immigration case with her. I'm trying to get her residency, I believe, or citizenship. But what does that have to do with you two getting married?

Why? I guess I don't know because I never challenged the best state now. I didn't ask why can't we? Well, I'll give you the math on it. Let's say you save up babies home and healthy. That gives you a pile of cash you can throw at the debt. Within six months after that, you could have. have the 20 grand saved to cover the difference for the loan and then sell it and clear the title. And then you go down to one car and then with our future money, now we're saving up to get a

second car if you need one or we're just stacking up the emergency fund if you're out of debt at that point. Okay. There's no shortcuts here. Do not go further into debt. The only reason I tell you to take out a loan from a credit union is if you can go down in debt and then get out of that aggressively. Yeah.

George, I'm wondering why, I did not hear you recommend this. Why not have a third option where he sells the car? and gets the max he can get for it because it's going down in value. Yeah. If they can truly survive off a one car, which is her cash car, why not sell it? Well, because when you're underwater, you don't have a clean title. And so without a clean title, he's not going to be able to hand that title over to the person buying it. There you go.

And so there's a lien against the vehicle with the lender. And so to clear that, you've got to go to the bank, have the money. The difference is not as clean as it sounds. To pay off the loan. Yeah. So it's a process. And that's the problem. It's, you can't be underwater on a car you pay cash for.

And it's one of the best reasons to never go into debt for a car on top of many others. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Ken Coleman, George Camel, is alongside. We're here for you, AAA 825-5-2-2-25-2-25. AAA 825-5-2-2-5. All right, let's go to Ryan in Salt Lake City. Ryan, how can we help today? Hey, how's it going today?

Good, how are you? I'm looking at, I'm doing very well. I was just wanting to ask you what I would have to do at 28 years old this February to retire at 40 years old. Okay, you got George over here who does his magical computations. Yeah, we can talk about how to do it, and then I want Ken to talk about should you do it. I like that. What caused this goal? Well, I'm trying to go against the grain, and I do not want to work until I'm past 60,

and I believe I have the income in order to do that and kind of break the street and retire at 40. Okay. Well, there's a lot of variables we don't know, but let's start with what you make today. So last year I made $235,000. Awesome. And I'm projected this year. You know, that was with some bonuses last year. My pre-tax is supposed to be around 206 and 210 this year.

Great. So we'll market it a little over 200. About 147. Are you single? I'm married with two children. Okay. And that's the household income as your spouse at home? She runs our company that we opened a few years ago. She does consulting for construction companies, but that's her thing. I got out of the company when I went from 1099 to being a W2.

Okay. So does that additional income or is that part of the 235? that's not including my income okay she's part-time and doesn't uh get usually maybe get 10 hours a week or so but i'm not factoring that in all right so what is your do you have a goal in mind of how much you need to have saved in order to accomplish this to be work optional i'd like to have at least uh seven thousand dollars coming in a month seven to nine thousand uh for retirement every single month Okay. So you're probably looking at, you know, at least one and a half million bucks or something sitting in an account that's invested, you know, heavily in equities and stocks. And so do you have anything saved right now or invested? I have $5,000 in Schwab and $15,000 in savings. And my checking account usually floats around $8,000. I just got myself out of a ton of debt. So right now is my time to kind of start. the investment process in order to do the retirement.

Okay. And I had two loans that I'm still working on. Okay, so let's walk through the process that I would personally walk through if this was my goal, which would be to pay off all of my debt, and that means liquidating most of the savings to do that, to speed this up, getting a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months, which if you're saying what's your burn rate every month right now? How much do you need to get by?

Right now, $5,704. and 83 cents. Okay, so let's call it 35 grand as a six-month emergency fund for you guys. So that's your next goal. Okay. Then we need to be investing 15% for retirement because we want to take advantage of any tax-advantaged accounts we can first. And so if you've got a match, let's start there. Roth accounts, that's a great move there for tax-free growth and then traditional accounts. Then beyond that, beyond the 15%, if you wanted to put some money away in a brokerage account, like that's what you're talking about with the Schwab account? Yes. And that's the BTSX. Okay. Then if you wanted to put money there for it to grow and you put, you know,

50 grand a year, let's say, that would get you about 1.1 in 12 years. So you'd be a little off the mark. So then you, you know, let's ratchet it up to 70. Well, I could see to 1.6. The other factor here is your mortgage. Are you guys, do you guys own? Yes. My total housing is about 2828, and that's including 21-23 mortgage, Wi-Fi, water, trash, and all that. Okay. What's left on the mortgage? We're at 338. Okay. I personally would attack the mortgage first before I was doing additional into the brokerage account.

And you'll have time. What's that? What would the sort of attacking the mortgage first be rather than maybe get rid of a car payment, which is less than the mortgage? Oh, no, you need to attack the consumer debt first. Hear me say that. So we talked about knocking out the consumer debt, getting an emergency fund, investing 15%, then anything extra. We're putting some toward college, paying off the mortgage, which means we're probably going to be delaying this plan. Okay.

Once the house is paid off, now we can invest beyond the 15%, put money into the brokerage account. Because here's the thing. If you got rid of that mortgage payment, it really reduces how much you actually need in that fund, doesn't it? I have something to throw at you. Okay. So if my housing is 2,828 a month, but my vehicles is 2265 a month, I can pretty much free up the same amount if I paid off the vehicles a lot quicker than the house because it's not that big of a number. Yeah, dude, I'm telling you, follow the baby steps. Consumer debt goes first.

Did you miss that part? So the cars are going to get paid off ASAP. then the emergency fund gets stacked up, then you start investing 15% into retirement accounts, then some money to college, then we throw the money at the mortgage. So I'm not telling you to pay off the mortgage before your cars. Gotcha. And by the way, a guy who wants to retire early should not be carrying $2,200 in car loans. Right.

I agree with that. Okay. Just want to make sure, because that is flying in the face of your stated goal of financial freedom. Now, I want Ken to quickly hit on, should you do this? because I have followed the fire movement and seen what's happening over there, and it frankly worries me. Yeah. Are you a fan of the financially independent retire early?

That's the fire movement? I'm not aware of that. Yeah. Okay. Well, here's what we found, and this is all documented, the guy who started, who's credited was starting this movement. The idea was work like an absolute maniac, don't live life, don't enjoy anything until you're 40 and you stack, stack, stack, stack, stack.

and the guy who actually is considered the founder of this actually went back to work two or three years into it for a couple of reasons. Number one, he thought in his mind that he had not actually saved enough, given how the cost of college was going up. That was one of his stated concerns. Also, the guy was bored out of his skull and there's nothing wrong with retiring. And I love, by the way, whenever I say this, people always come at me in the comments and come at me because I'm not going to be in there. George will tell me. I'll fill them in. I'm not saying that there aren't certain people who can retire at any age and never work at any of the life and be as happy as a clam, fishing, hunting, whatever. But what I am saying is that we know from research that it has negative effects

on us because there is this built-in desire in our spirit, in our soul to make a contribution. So I'm not saying you've got to work 40 hours a week until the day you fall over. I am saying that it is proven that it is better for us mentally, emotionally and physically, to have some type of purpose outside of just play as we age. But I will tell you, I love that you called us and threw it out there. But I've got to tell you, after George ran those numbers out, you've got a ways to go. Based on this, after you follow everything I've told you, you still have to stack a ton of cash. You still need to stack a hundred grand away in that account

for a decade for this to even make sense. So the reason I bring that up is not to discourage you, but to encourage you to have a more realistic goal. And a healthier one. And a healthier one so that we can actually reach it. Because I think you've created a mountain in your mind that's not climable given your financial realities. But if you do what George said, you're going to be very happy man and can in fact retire much earlier than most. Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rearview and you're fired up to finally make some changes with your money. New year, new goals. We love it. But let's be honest. Old you said the exact same thing last January and the January before that. And before you know it, those money goals fizzle out faster than the fleeting flavor of La Croy. So here's the truth. New Year motivation only gets you so far. You need an actual plan. And the good news is you don't have to figure it out on your own. Every dollar builds a personal. plan based on your goals and your real life. And it actually coaches you to stick with it. Plus, the every dollar app will help you find extra money hiding in your budget. And trust me,

there's always something hiding. The average person finds $3,015 in the first 15 minutes. That's basically like giving yourself a raise and a much happier new year. So don't let future you down. Make them proud. Go download the every dollar budget app and start for free right now. All right, folks, if you have kicked your debt to the curb, you deserve to celebrate, where do they deserve to celebrate, George? Where would somebody, where would you recommend that somebody who beat all their debt? They got it out of their life. How would you think they might, you know, celebrate that?

I think somewhere warm, somewhere tropical, and somewhere with Dave Ramsey and the Ramsey personalities. How about the Caribbean? I'll go there. With Dave, you, me, and all the other Ramsey personalities. Take me there, want to go there. All right. It's called the Little.

like no one else cruise, folks, it's coming back after much popular demand. And I'm not reading from any notes here. This is a fact. Extemporaneous. Those folks loved it who went on it before. And so my, my, my, this is going to sell out way faster because now everybody knows how great it is. And I got to tell you, I'm not a cruise guy, George. Traditionally.

Well, I don't like being on the boat. I like the clothes that you would wear on a boat. The attire is what you're there for. I like the boat attire and I like the Caribbean. Well, this cruise was great. And so here we go. We're going to roll it back. I think they say run it back, not roll it back.

Run it back. It's your show, Ken. March 14th through 21. March 14 through 21, 2027. That's next year, if you're looking at your calendars. In the Bahamas, how about Jamaica, George? Do I want to take you? Was that my cue?

It was. Okay. The Grand Cayman and Cosimo. cabins are limited save up to $300 when you book by February 7 so hey those of you haven't made any plans are you kidding me next March you got cash you want to save 300 bucks you got to do it before February 7 click the link in the show notes or go to ramsysolutions.com slash events to book your cabin I am looking forward to this I did not think it was going to be as amazing as it was the ship was great the people

our fans are just amazing it was electric energy the buffets were next level and I will tell you there was in fact a pickleball court on top of the ship so if you're pickleball enthusiast

we had a lot of tournaments going on they wore you out man you were up there for like seven hours and people like no no no you're not going anywhere Ken I want to play you yeah there's a shot right there with the headband

oh my gosh and the lettuce as the kids call my hair flowing on top of the ship. It's on the top deck, George. That's a bold move to show off your legs, Ken. With those chicken legs you got down there. Well, there's nothing to be ashamed of. They're just little. That's all it is. So we'd love to see you on the cruise. And I wear, by the way, on stage, did you like my attire? I really went with a cruise ship theme last year. All of those white pants you own finally came in handy. Well, lots of linen. A lot of loafers. Yeah, a lot of loafers.

All right. Carol knows what we're talking about somewhere in sunny Florida. Carol, how can we help you today. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's going on? My husband and I are both going to be turning 65 this year, and we want to retire at the end of the year. And we're trying to decide if we should pay off our house or not. And if so, where we should pull the money from. We don't have any other debt. And we do have some savings. We have about $1.1 million in an IRA, $90,000 of that. is in a 401k, and we have about $145,000 in savings. Awesome. We owe $155,000 on the house, and the interest rate is 2.75%.

The problem is the maturity date on that loan is 2051, so we'll be about 90. Yeah, no, thank you. But I'm not sure, you know, if I pay it off, I'm not sure. exactly where to pull the money from. So you've got $145K in liquid cash. What is that earmarked for right now? Initially, to live off of when we retire, we'd like to delay drawing our Social Security, which would be about $4,400 a month if we draw now.

We'd like to wait at least a couple years and let that grow. Okay. Our monthly expenses are about $5,000. Great. So you almost have the cash to do it, but you're saying, saying you need a big chunk of this to basically live because you want to retire by the end of the year? Yes. Retirement for me is a great goal. It's going to be a really big switch mindset for me because I'm a saver, not a spender. So depleting money out of that savings makes me

incredibly uncomfortable. So that's just why I feel like I need a little bit of advice from someone who has a broader outlook. What's your household income? Our household income right now is about $160,000. Awesome. And we save about $2,500 a month, and we put about 15% into our investments with employer match. Okay. So outside of 15%, you're saying you have $2,500 extra, you can throw at the mortgage? All right. I could. That'll get you far. That's $30,000 right there. And by that point, the mortgage is down to $125,000. You'll have the money in cash, but you're going to need some of that to float you for a year or two, it sounds like. And do you have any other money outside of the 1.1 Nesteg? I have about, well, say, 45,000, no, 52,000 in a Roth. Okay. But I didn't start it until

2022, so I don't think I can withdraw from that without penalty for five years. Is that correct? Yes. Do you have a financial advisor you've used to crunch all these numbers? I have some of my investments in Schwab and I've talked to them but the rest of it I've just done on my own. Okay. My only fear is that you're riding it pretty tight if you're wanting to spend five grand of net income a year for the rest of your life off of this million dollar nest egg. And so that's the part where I can see it working, but a SmartVester Pro can run the projections out and show you all of the scenarios and what, you know, medical costs might be. and when Social Security would kick in and when you should take it. All of that will factor into when you should retire. Okay.

So I think you're on the cusp here, and I think you can pull this plan off, but I would double check it with a SmartVestor Pro to make sure that the numbers make sense. But if I'm in your shoes, I like using cash first. We want to save the retirement. If you have any taxable investment accounts, use that next. Then we move on traditional accounts. And then if you have any Roth accounts, I would wait as long as I could because those are growing tax-free for you right now. So that would be the bucket strategy, and a SmartVistre Pro can

walk you through that based on your numbers. And it might mean, hey, we got to work six months into 2027 to make this work, but I want to make sure that you're ironclad. Love it. Thanks for the call, Carol. Let's go to Michelle right here in our backyard of Nashville, Tennessee. Michelle, how can we help? Hi, how are you guys doing today? Good. What's going on? Good. Well, recently, my husband and I both have had some raises. We're still in the middle of Baby Step 2. And I'll be honest, we've been doing this for a couple years now. And so just trudging along on this Baby Step 2 feels like it's just going on forever. But since we've got these raises, I'm wondering if I can quit my side hustle and just put this extra income towards Baby Step 2.

What was your side hustle paying you? It's about $20,000 a year. What's your raise paying you? What's the net on the raise? About 6,500 a year. So it's not apples to apples, correct? Well, it's not, but my husband also got a big increase in pay, and his was about $40,000. Oh, okay. All right. So, yeah, I mean, you certainly can.

What's the timeline differences? Let's say you kept the side hustle and his raise and your raise. How fast would you get out versus if you quit the side hustle? Is it delay it by three months or are you? year? No, it's not a year. When I put it in the app, every dollar, it says it's like three or four months difference. Although, you know, like I said, I'm just tired of working, you know, the extra job, but I certainly want to get the debt paid off too. And to be quite honest, I don't like the extra three or four months either. Well, there's your answer. It's really not our answer. I mean,

we can give you our take, but there's no. right or wrong answer is really my answer, but I would lean towards, I was going to turn the question on you and you got ahead of me and you asked your own question and answered it. You're choosing between two things that kind of suck. Continuing the side hustle or continuing to stay in debt even longer and sacrificing in other ways than making the payments and paying the interest. And so if you can find a second wind here and just power through and go, I hate this side hustle so much, I'm willing to work even harder. I think that will fuel this debt-free journey. I agree. I agree. You hate the side hustle. You hate the debt. But if you work three to four months more, you get rid of both of them at the same time. That's my answer.

Bada bing. Bada boom. And I'm sticking to it. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey Solutions.com. All right, it's always fun when we have friends of Dave stop by, and Dave's got lots of friends, George, as you know, and they're interesting people, and this is a special treat for us. We're really excited to be joined in.

studio by Andy Irwin and Bart Mlard. And you're going, I think I may know those names. Well, you do. Andy Irwin, the award-winning filmmaker behind the very first film, I can only imagine. Bart Moulard is now is producing this as well. I can only imagine two is the follow-up to I can only imagine. And I've got to say to you guys, when I saw that this was coming out, I thought, this is a good sign that the first movie, we know it was a big deal, but there had to be a lot of

because I'm not a fan of sequels, George. They're hard to pull off. They're hard to pull off. Unless it's home alone too, and you're like, all right, good luck. That's one that I thought was good, but not great. And so I'm very excited about this sequel. Guys, first of all, welcome to the studio, welcome to the Ramsey show. And I think it begs the question, I'm being serious.

I mean, it seems scary to pull off a sequel because it's not done well. And you guys were telling us early that things look really good here. Why pull off the sequel? I was terrified. I said no over and over again. And so Bart and I have been really good friends since the first movie. And they kept bringing up this idea of, I think there might be more story to tell. So Cindy Bond, who was the original producer, was like, I think there's more story. And I was like, absolutely not. Because I don't want to ruin it. It was just so magic. And there's just, there's sequels that are made that worship the original and then they just mess it all up. And then there's Top Gun Maverick. And so the idea of reintroducing you to the world you love and taking it somewhere new. And so Cindy started talking to Bart and then Brent McCorkle, who did Jesus Revolution with my brother, they started talking about the story of even if, the song that so many people love every bit as much as I can only imagine. And when they started walking through that, they said, you got to hear this.

So they pulled me into the conversation. They walked me through the story. And it was just the second half of a whole, and it's the perfect end of a father-son story. And I was in tears by the end of it. And then Bart was like, I think this is kind of like the spiritual sequel to I can only imagine. And I was like, no, this is the literal sequel. I can get that made tomorrow. And we pitched to the Lionsgate 30 seconds in there, like, guys, we're obviously doing this movie.

So for us to step into it was magic, to finish the movie and test it, we were just nervous. Like, what's the audience going to think? The first, I can imagine, was our highest testing film we've ever had that scored a 96 with the audience. This one scored a 97. So it's exciting. Well, hopefully. Hopefully. Yeah.

And what you guys have done in the world of film and faith, it hasn't always been world class. You guys have brought just such a level of quality from the stories to the acting, the craftsmanship. And so I can't wait to see, you know, this one out in theaters, February 20th, for everyone to see it for themselves, especially for our audience. Yeah, your audience is in for a treat. You know, Dave and Ramsey is a part of this. The part of the movie was filmed on the Ramsey campus. I just found this out moments ago. Tell us what's going on, Bart.

How did this happen? Because you and Dave are big buddies. Yeah, he's my stunt double. Pretty much. No, man. Yeah, Dave and I've been buddies for a long time. I didn't even realize that he made the movie until I saw the last bit. So Dave Ranzi has a cameo if you listen closely.

He's got a voice over? Yeah, he's one of the... You listen for a familiar voice. You will recognize it. So you're filming on campus here. And then after I learned that, I was also disappointed to find out that George and I did not make the final cut. You were too expensive. Did they even send you my audition tapes?

That's the question. I don't think so they named your price and it just priced you out. So we're going to have to work up to your level. Yeah. Get there. Got to fill out. We actually, we emailed Dave and said, everybody's like, no, Dave never says yes to filming stuff like that here.

And so I emailed him and he was on y'all's cruise. And I just said, hey, Dave, be careful when you're friends with a filmmaker because we ask for stuff. And I was like, how would you feel about us filming the movie at your place? And he's like, yeah, man, it'd be fine. Talk to the guys and work it out. And I was like, and so. You picked him on a good day.

It was on the cruise. It was good. He was out in the sun. He had just finished the buffet. That's why he was excited. Okay, Bart, I want to pick up where Andy left off. in describing how this came about, as you were walking through more of the story, you know, as a guy who, of course, you've been nominated, won so many awards as lead singer of Mercy Me.

This is such a different space. You used to telling stories with songs. But as you were walking through this in the story that we heard, at what point do you go, I think this is a big screen story? I don't know if I was ever sure about that until I actually read the script. I mean, it's been almost 10 years since the last movie. Exactly. I had an interview yesterday, and they're like, so you're cashing in with a sequel?

I was like, you don't normally cash in 10 years later. It's like, and so I really was excited that there was a story there. But man, when Cindy Bond originally wanted to make a movie around even if, she wanted to just find any story, like fan mail, something. And it was when I met with Brent McCorkel who wrote, co-wrote, Imagine, did Jesus Revolution. And he goes, well, where did the song come from? As I told him the story, that's when he had tears in his eyes. And he was like, this is it.

And what if we literally got the band back together and put it kind of in this universe and made it a sequel? And so I was like, I was a little skeptical because, you know, you never think your life's that interesting. And it's not. He made it very interesting. But yeah, when I read the script, I was like, okay, yeah, let's do this. Well, so much of the story is about the true cost of success, the underbelly of, you know, you have this thing hit. And there's other piece of your life that you get a flat tyrant because you're so focused on. on your career. And a lot of our fans experience that. So where does this movie pick up?

Is it a direct connection? You know, I think the thing that was beautiful that I was excited about is it, you know, there was a chance to kind of take it farther. And I, you know, I love the stories in the building here, just how, you know, Dave has never shied away from that a lot of this was born out of failure and out of, you know, learning at the lowest point. And so, you know, with Bart's story, I was really, really just excited that he was willing to look at on the other side of success of what happens if happily ever after breaks. What happens if you get everything you've ever dreamed of the crowd starts, stops cheering, they go home, and then life goes back to being hard. And where's God and the hardship there? And so this new character, Tim Timmins,

kind of gets brought into the mix, played by Milo Ventimilia, that people know from This Is Us and Gilmore Girls and all that type stuff. And is, uh, is that based on Tim? Yeah, so, yeah, so yeah, Tim is, yeah, he's the guy. So he's, he's, I play pickleball with Tim, Tim. Tim, Tim. Tim Timmy? And he didn't told you. The movie's about Tim Simmons. They were filmed on Picklebone. He's been hurt.

He's been playing. So he showed up recently and the weather had been rough. But I got to tell you, I'm a little excited. Keep going. I apologize. So Tim is the cat. So Tim's one of Bart's best friends. We co-rode even if.

And so the story is how we got to write that song. We got to that point. I love that, dude. I've known him a long, long time, but didn't know that. You're about to get a lot of him. I got to text him on the way. He'll be like, dude, you're holding out on it. I'm going to embarrass him next one.

Wednesday night when we play. I love it. Please do. If you can embarrass Timmins, then you're Yeah, good luck. You're special because he's hard to embarrass. That's true. But he and he and Milo just hit it off and Milo really wanted to make the faith authentic. And so Tim is this guy that gets thrown into Bart's world and is carrying this kind of secret about his own journey. But has this idea of gratitude, living with gratitude of God, thank you that you woke me up today in this kind of tension between grief and gratitude. Yeah. And he begins to kind of, you know,

encourage Bart and this journey, and it leads to this amazing song. And ultimately is the healing of this father, son's story of Bart as a father towards his son. And we finished it at Red Rocks. We filmed the end of the movie at Red Rocks. Oh, that's epic. 8,500 people.

They showed up and it's epic. I love it. We're talking about the new movie I can only imagine, too, in theaters, February 20th. Bart, I want to give you a final word to encourage our audience, because these people, as you know well, are walking through some tough stuff. You know, our baby steps, while simple, to explain, are very difficult to do.

And I've just kind of moved, as Andy was talking about, the theme of this film. Encourage people who are in those dark days of just scrambling to maybe come up with a thousand bucks, or they're in the middle of Baby Step 2, where they're paying off debt, and it feels like an insurmountable climb. What would you say to them? And life is messy. You know, whether you're standing on stage or in the audience, This doesn't matter what's happening in your life.

Life happens. And it's learning to live with grief or stress or worry and gratitude at the same time and realizing that the cliche of God is good all the time. It's that and not God is good if X, Y, and Z happens or comes into place. And God's bigger of that. And he's in all of it. If he's not, then we're hopeless. I love it.

Well, folks, if you love the first movie and millions of you did, I can only imagine, well, I can only imagine, too, coming out in theaters, February 20th. Also a special fan event, a little kind of a sneak peek. Give us real quick, 10 seconds on this. February 14th, we've got a fan event where they'll have a one-night screening all across the country, February 14th. So you can get some early access stuff. They recorded even if at Abbey Road in London. Where do they get details from them? So they get details online. I can only imagine movie.com. There it is. I can only imagine movie.com. Did I get that right? I think I got it right. I probably got it wrong.

Date night. Valentine's date night. I can't miss it. Valentine's Day's Day. Hey guys, thanks for being with this. I appreciate you. Andy, appreciate you guys. You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVester can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options.

So you never have to invest in anything you don't understand. Head to ramsysolutions.com slash smartvester to get connected. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at ramsysysolutions.com slash smartvester. All right, our script for the day comes from Luke 1610. Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much. And whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. Our quote today from John Wooden,

do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do. Trent is joining us now in Idaho. Trent, how can I help? Hey, George, Ken. So I was calling. I had a question, so I kind of got a late start on my retirement. And I'm currently in a good position building my retirement up. But I don't really have.

I've got a wife and four kids, and we're plan on adding two more kids. But the small town we live in doesn't really offer experience or opportunity for our kids to grow. And I got a potential job opportunity in my company in a larger city where there is more opportunity for my kids. But we would sacrifice our 401k growth that we're building right now. kind of wanted some advice. What do you mean sacrifice and growth there? Because you said it's with your company? Yes.

So currently right now, my housing, we pay like $300 a month on rent. And so we had been able to put, for the last two years, we've been putting 40% of each paycheck into retirement into my 401k Roth. And so we've been able to build a lot in the last two years. And then, but in this small town, there's not a lot of opportunities for our kids to grow and learn things. So you're saying you'll have less money to put into retirement due to a higher cost of living? Correct. What's your pay now and what would it be in the new city?

So it would be, I'm currently getting paid around 74,000 a year. And it was put on the table so I don't have like a set amount that I would be getting paid in the new city. It would be either equal to or maybe a little bit more than what I'm currently making. So it would be a lateral move, but you'd have more opportunities for your family in general, a better quality of life, let's say. Yes. I'm taking that over, you know, more in the 401K. Yeah, I'm just sitting here listening and listening to the line of questioning and I'm going, this is a no-brainer to me.

What would be the doubt that you have about this? Because how, so like right now I have 165,000 in my Roth 401K. And so we've been able, that's where we're at right now. and we're saving, saving, saving, trying to build it up as fast. But why? But I understand, again, what is that the doubt? You're going to be making more money?

Well, it would be, well, yes, because we wouldn't be putting as much into retirement, but we'd also. Yeah, but you also are going to have some type of a 401K or a Roth program with that company. Can you still invest 15% in this new area? Because that's the baby steps. Until you pay off the house,

which you guys said you're renting right now? Well, currently on. Now we're just in the, yeah, we just, we rent, we don't have no debt anywhere. So a goal would be to own a home and then pay that house off one day while investing 15%. How old are you? Well, hold on, hold on. I don't, let's get to that. But, Trent, I'm not sure that we've landed for yourself.

Why you have doubt about taking this better job with better opportunities for your family. because of the opportunity that I'm currently had to build my retirement. That's not the reason. It's not for a 401K. What makes you so freaked out about this retirement account that you're shoving 40% of your money into it? I'd like to retire early. Okay, let's say there. If you take this new job, will you be making more money?

Yes or no? it will be equal to or maybe a little bit more, but it'll probably be just like a even right across. Then why are you considering it a better opportunity? A better opportunity for my kids and my family. So like there's where I currently am. Give me specifics. Specifics. So like activities as far as like sporting activities.

activities, getting them involved in extracurriculars. Okay, so better quality of life. We can say that, yes? Yes. Okay, let me come back to it. Let's call this company XYZ. And I'm not totally cutting you off, George, but I feel like we're stuck here, Trent. Does company XYZ have a retirement program so that the day you come in there, they start,

you start contributing through them, just like you are now? Well, it did. It is through my company. So they match up to 3%. And then so... Okay, this is through your current company. Correct. And it is the company I'd be going to is the same company.

It's just a different location. So he's just saying he's going to have less money because it's a higher cost of living. So he can't put as much into the 401K. That's the only thing here that you're worried. I missed that part because I thought there was an opportunity for you to grow financially in this job. And I would make the case with you. your employer that, hey, if I'm going to make this move to a higher cost living area, move my family, there needs to, I need more compensation for this to then cover the higher expenses. I think that's a

fair thing to negotiate. It's fair, but at the same time, Trent, if this is better quality of life for your family and you're still in good shape, and George, you were going to go to the numbers here to show me. Well, the key is, can you live off of $80,000 in this new city? Can you cover all of your bills? Yes, we can. My wife and I're, where... Do you have any debt? you're smart with... No, no debt at all. How much do you have in savings for an emergency fund? We have $8,000 in our emergency fund and I have around $42,000 in our savings.

So you have $50,000 in cash, essentially? Yes. Okay, and how old are you? 38. Okay, you're 38. You wanted to retire early. Can we call that $55? Is that fair?

Yeah. Okay. If you never get a raise, you invest that $1,000. thousand bucks a month, that's the money you're putting in, 15% plus some employer match, you'd have about $1.5 million at 55. From that one account, that's if you never get a raise from 38 to 55, which we can all agree is a ridiculous proposition. So what's likely to happen is you purchase a home, you pay that home off, you increase

your investing, you get raises along the way, and all of a sudden, it looks more like $2 million at $55. And that's with you cutting back to 15%. So the question I would ask is can I move to this new city while investing 15% of my income and cover all the bills? Cover this new rent, which is going to be higher than $300. And I think you're going to find the answer is yes. Is the answer yes, Trent? Yes.

Yeah, we're... He's got a good grass. My wife and I're smart. Yeah. Trent, you're such a detail guy. You're on top of it. I know you've done all this research. So again, what's the big doubt?

do we still have the doubt? Yes, he's laughing. There's some doubt. You've got four opposing goals here. I want the kids to have a better life, but I also want to put 40% into my 401K. And I also, and so you've got to just go, what is the best thing for our family right now? Yeah. And I think it's very clear.

It's moving to this new city. Yeah. And you'll be fine on retirement. I'm really not worried about that. You're in great shape. If you keep staying out of debt, you work your butt off, you're going to keep getting raises. That's right. You're going to get a home.

You're going to pay that home off in the next. 15 years, and then you'll have a paid-for home and $2 million in the bank in your 50s. Where's your wife had on this decision? She is leaning more towards the retirement, putting more into the retirement, which is why I'm hesitant. Okay, see, this is information that I was trying to dig from you earlier. I think we need to get to the root of why she's so worried about that, because you guys are on track to become multi-millionaires. And so I think there's an unhealthy fear that is not rooted in reality about that. That's right. And you're sacrificing, remember, the quality of life for your children for the foreseeable future by staying where you are.

So you've got to choose which one is going to lead to a better life. George, what's your vote? I would vote for quality of life. I would move yesterday. I would too. Quality of life. It's just something you can't measure until it happens. All right. Appreciate the call. And hey, everybody, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.