The Ramsey Show - When Are You Going To Clean Up Your Financial Stupidity?

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

📱Download your Ramsey Network App for free today!   Dave Ramsey & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: "We're $500k in debt; can we afford new-to-us cars?" "My in-laws are trying to leave us a timeshare..." "How do I invest and set myself up for the future?" "How should we buy a house from family?" "Should I pass on a generous 401(k) match?" Support Our Sponsors: Churchill Mortgage: Get started at ChurchillMortgage.com The Wellness Company: urgentcarekit.com/ramsey for 15% off medical emergency kit BetterHelp: betterhelp.com/Delony to get 10% off your first month Zander Insurance: Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282 for a fast and easy quote today. Next Steps 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET or click here! ☎️ Share your thoughts on The Ramsey Show & more! ☂️ Protect yourself with the right coverage—take our coverage quiz! 🚢 The Live Like No One Else Cruise is booking fast!  🏠Find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! Listen to more from Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Campbell, number one best-selling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke, Ramsey personality, and various other things. He is co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, many other things around here. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Katie is going to start us off in Akron, Ohio this hour. Hi, Katie.

How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Good. So my husband is a physician, so he's got a really good income. But he also has almost $500,000 in student loan debt. We've been married three years, so I kind of married into his debt.

And as such, we're not sure if now is even an acceptable time to be considering buying a couple of new-to-us used cars. Right now, he works out of state and will for the foreseeable future. So he's gone 50% of the time, and I'm here with all the kids. Last week, two of our vehicles were broken down at the same time, so I had no transportation. So I was just, we're looking to spend maybe a total of $40,000 on a van and a sedan, and just don't know if we're still supposed to be driving clunkers because of that massive student loan debt. Are we attacking the massive student loan debt? Probably not as fiercely as you would like, which has, and not as fiercely as you would like, um, which has, uh, and not as seriously as I

would like either. Um, because, because this is a second marriage for both of us, we've both had to kind of adjust our, um, financial views a little bit, a little give and take. Um, and so I'm more gung ho than he is, but at the same time, we are still paying them off. We've paid off 100,000 of them in the past two years. Yeah. What's he make? He makes 400,000 gross. So we're bringing home a little over 18,000 a month. You should be bringing home more than that.

Your taxes aren't that high. It's about 19, about not a 19 000 yeah that's after taxes and insurance that's almost 50 that's almost you don't have a 50 tax of some kind of problems going here is he investing through his retirement plan yes but that's actually already been maxed out for the year so yeah i know that's why you're taking home less as well that's part of the equation yeah so if we pause investing you could get back 20 grand in your i mean the question is not really cars because based on the way you guys are currently living you're trying to wander out of debt while continuing to do investing and while you have but do this you make 400,000 you only paid off

100 grand in two years I mean and it's just awful so um you know there's no intensity at all we do also have a lot of expenses that others may not have with him working out of state he has to maintain an apartment out of state um we have three well I have three step kids that live in a different state that he has to go out there to visit on a monthly basis um and so hotel rooms and travel for that um and then yeah but truthfully katie you you told you told us you guys are not intense you guys are not working our system okay i'm not mad not mad at you, but so I don't know why, whether you buy a car matters. I mean, if you want to go buy a car, buy a car, if you're going to keep working at this way, but you're going to struggle

as long as you continue to do this. And so, um, you know, it's, um, you guys are going to have to decide if you're going to lean into this debt thing and get rid of the debt. If you're going to lean into it, then stop the 401k and buy one $10,000 car and get rid of these two pieces of crap that keep breaking down. But, you know, as long as y'all keep acting like people that make $400,000, you're going to keep spending what you're spending, and you're going to justify it and rationalize it, and you're going to stay in debt. You're going to keep spending what you're spending, and you're going to justify it and rationalize it, and you're going to stay in debt. You're not going to get out. So, you know, it doesn't matter. You know, the $10,000 car doesn't matter.

But what it does do, the question, what the question does do in your house, not with us, it doesn't affect us, but between the two of you, it causes you to say, okay, are we going to do this or not? Are we going to keep limping through this? Because at this current rate, you're going to be in debt for 10 years. And that's just, you know, that's not a plan. You know, it's not a good plan. But, and if you're going to do that, then yeah, sure, buy a car.

I mean, it's not, buy all the cars you want to buy. I don't care. I mean, it's not, it, because it doesn doesn't what you're doing is you're half butt doing everything and that's just not gonna the everything we teach anyway so um yeah you guys need to have a discussion about this okay we need to sit down and make the money we have behave better and we need to behave better and um we need to get in very, very intense because you are a broke doctor's wife. You're married to a doctor who is broke. Broke. Poor people making 400 grand. That's what you are. So you guys got to decide if that's how you want to live or not. I don't

want to live like that. Yeah, part of this is getting a line going, all right, how much can and should we be throwing at this debt? We want to be done in three years. Okay. That's 170 grand a year. We got to be throwing at this. What does that take per month? Once you make it mathematical and what must be true? Yeah. We got to cut. What has to be true of our lifestyle? What has to be true of the travel apartment? What has to be true about this and true about that and you know and what's the the way we can for a short period of time what can we sacrifice and that's what you do and regardless if you make 40 grand or you make 400 grand maybe you can repair the cars for five grand instead of spending 40 and that buys you a few years who knows yeah but i think i think what this highlights is not a car issue what it highlights

is the issue that you guys are the plan you're working you know is not not working not well and you're not on the same page and you guys probably need to talk about what the flip we're going to do going forward i mean that then that will answer your car question. And do you even have 40 grand in cash to pay for this? Yeah, probably not. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. So, George, one of the things that happens, and it happened with me, I didn't have a choice because I went broke. But you can choose to take away all your options. You can choose to take away all your rationalizations.

You can choose to do this. And you have to kind of run a mental scenario. I always tell people, like, okay, you have no money. What if you had to have $10,000 by Christmas to save the life of your child with a medical procedure and you couldn't borrow it? What would you do? You'd find it. You'd find it. And all of a sudden all this, oh, to do this i have to do that and bull crap

we're getting ten thousand dollars if you make it a priority it happens it's like it's life or death whatever you focus on so you'll see all of a sudden all that all this stuff we think we need when you are trying to save the life you know when you put it in that kind of a mental gymnastic routine then you, then you're forced into looking at your life realistically. Yeah. Because dead isn't life or death, but you kind of have to make it that way

in order to get out. No, it's not. But if you say, you know, if you act like that's how important this is, until it becomes important, you're not going to do it. That's the thing. As long as there's something else

that's more important. That's any goal in life. You're not going to do it. This is The Ramsey Show. Buying your first home is a big deal and sets the stage for your financial success. So work with a mortgage advisor you trust, not just some random website. Churchill Mortgage is Ramsey trusted because they help you avoid hidden traps and expertly guide you through every step. Learn more at churchillmortgage.com.

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Good. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? Yeah, so just a little back story. My wife and I are followers of the Baby Steps. We're on four, five, and six. We have about $65,000 left on our mortgage. Way to go. We're going to or five and six. We have about 65,000 left on our mortgage and be completely

debt free. So, um, that being said, um, uh, my in-laws, her parents are not, they don't see eye to eye with that. They kind of do their own thing. I don't agree with anything financially that they do pretty much, but that's them. That being said, they were, they redid their will and we're kind of updating it and kind of going over it with us. They want to leave us a timeshare and two rental properties and we don't want any of it. My wife and I have, we just, that's, we don't want to be landlords, ever be landlords. That's not something we want to do. And it's her parents, right?

It's her parents, yeah. Now the problem really comes in where I'm a little bit more vocal than my wife, so now I look like I'm not appreciative. You've already said all this, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. It hasn't gone very well.

I mean, I try to kind of say that, you know, it's, I mean, but basically it's like I think this is like especially the rental, not so much the timeshare, the rental stuff, I think they view as a legacy, I guess. But it's not something that i mean my even if someone were to give us a million dollars right now my wife and i would not buy a rental property it's just not something that's fine yeah that's cool want to get into so well this is how to kind of yeah i mean go around it but but be direct. Well, I think you've already been direct. Yeah.

And now you're accused of being the ungrateful son-in-law. Right. Who's spoiling the whole family, messing up the whole thing. It was all going good until you came along. Have they ever liked you, Pim? Has this always been a tumultuous relationship uh no no honestly it's it's been good but like i said it's just we've we've been we've never kind of um they they just like i said they don't do okay so you said you said to them i don't want

this and now that hurt their feelings that's where we sit today, correct? Yeah, pretty much. Okay, so what would you think the net, what, you know, I don't know what to do to solve that other than it's been said, because you don't need to say it again, right? Right. You told them, we don't want this. And then they got their little feelings hurt. Yeah, so, I mean, I don't know if we just bite the bullet and whenever that day comes, we could just tell it or. No.

I think your conclusion is correct. The only thing I would have said if you'd have called me before you talked to him about it would have just been your wife needed to tell him, not you. Gotcha. I mean, she was there. I know, but she didn't carry the weight of it you carried the weight of it it's different when it comes from their own daughter yeah dad i love you and i appreciate you we do things different i don't want to be a landlord i know it means a lot to you to have these rental properties but dad i don't want to be a landlord thank you it's very kind of you

and i don't certainly don't want dadgum timeshare it's legalized fraud i don't want anything to do with it it's the worst industry on the planet and so um i mean you know she doesn't say all that but she could just say dad i love you but no and and you sit there with your mouth shut that would have been the only thing i would have changed about this scenario but it's too late that cat's out of the bag now right right yeah no take backs any more discussions need to come from her okay if you want to have a follow-up and make sure it's that the will is changed or whatever it needs to come from her otherwise if they die die and you're still in the will with this stuff you just put the rental properties on the market and sell them and you

never take the timeshare into your name and just let it go into default okay that was going to be my next question can i because i i did some research and looks like as long as you don't kind of sign any paperwork never touch never touch anything don't even discuss the timeshare just pretend like it didn't exist and it will just it'll it will deteriorate and it will go its own way. And they can't go after, like... They can't come after me for their timeshare, and they can't come after you for their timeshare, because neither one of us did this deal. Okay.

Yeah, you can't force a contract by inheritance. Okay. You'd have to be dumb enough to sign it when they put it in front of you. Okay. Now, if you just say, no, no, you people can have that. Just take that back. Well, we'll sue you. Who are you going to sue?

The estate? Yeah, good luck with that. You know, because they're not going to. Timeshare people are just gross. They'll move on and find another victim. Yeah, they're looking for old people that they can feed off of, and they bus them in from the Walmart parking lot and sell them, pressure them with a free meal or a free hotel room. Oh, yeah.

That happened on our honeymoon. First thing, first person you interact with is the timeshare salesman when you get to the resort. And I said, no, thank you. There's nothing you could offer us that would make sitting through three hours of this hell worth it. Jeez, man. no thank you there's nothing you could offer us that would make sitting through three hours of this hell worth it it's like you know they're they're just it's the scummiest thing oh yeah anyway so dude your your wife has to talk about this you can never talk about it again to them you can only encourage her and cause her to have courage to be clear and kind and grateful and the answer is no anytime it comes up the anything you can do like that but yeah you just you can't do there's those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still and sons-in-law are not usually in a position of strength to uh

take this on our daughters-in-law you know know, you got to take care of your own blood there. It's the best possible probability of this turning out well relationally. Anyway, for the rest of you out there, if you're facing that. Billy's in Chattanooga. Hi, Billy, how are you? Billy? Billy. Hey, Dave, I'm good. How are are you better now that i found you what's up

no i have a question for you um i think you'll feel a certain type of way about it but i accidentally made a lot of money in crypto um and i'm wondering what would be smartest to do with it. I'm still riding it right now. Back in 2020, I put about $12,000 in. It turned into $800,000 in less than a year. I thought I was very smart. And I was like, well, if I wait for over a year, I'll save a bundle on taxes. So I'll just sell 10% or enough for a house and let the rest ride. And then the rest crashed down to about 16,000.

Oh my goodness. You went from 12 to 800 to 16? Yes. But now, so this is I bought a house since then with that 10% that I sold. It's coming back up quick and fast. And I'm wondering

if I should just pay off the house altogether and be done with it with that i'm going to be way more conservative than i was last time i'm not going to expect for it to get back up that high george and i would tell you to cash out any crypto today by the end of the day and then work the baby steps with it pay the consumer debts first get the emergency fund then the. Yeah. Work the baby steps with it. But, yeah. And we're not hanging on until tomorrow, doing it by the end of the day today. Too much anxiety for me.

Yeah. This is The Ramsey Show. You know my philosophy on planning and preparing. Being proactive is always better than being reactive. We have a provider we recommend that can help you stay prepared for unexpected medical situations. I have a medical emergency kit from the doctors at the wellness company. And guys, let me tell you, you really should check this out. This is not a simple first aid kit. The medical emergency kit contains doctor-prescribed medicines to treat over 30 common and serious medical conditions. Ivermectin,

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How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, one hill I will die on is that you deserve all the good you have and more for all the good that you've done. I have a question that I'll try to keep simple in a really complicated situation. I am my dad's oldest daughter. I'm helping him with his trust.

We've got a really great attorney that's helping us. We're in the formation process of that, and we're learning as we go. I am one of four children with the addition of a fifth child that my dad had with his second wife who was abducted when he was two. And now that son would be 31 and my dad's wanting to include him in the trust with conditions like that he can prove his identity and that kind of stuff. And we're just trying to try and I'm just trying to know what the best way is to, um, to do this. If that makes any sense. He's been gone for 28 years out of the family. None of us know.

My sister knew him. I didn't really know him. He doesn't, as far as I know, know we exist, but my dad's wanting to include him in the trust with contingency that he like change his name back and, and that kind of stuff. And I just, I really want to honor my dad's wishes, but I'm not sure how to handle this the best way. Wow.

Okay, so what is it you're, what is it you want to handle? I mean, you put him in the, if your dad wants to put him in the trust, you put him in the trust, you put the conditions on it, and then how do you handle it when your dad passes? Yeah, because one of the conditions my dad is considering is that if he wants to reintegrate back into the family and and but he doesn't even why don't if he wants to do all that why don't he call him right now well he's working on that he's trying to he's trying to locate him before he dies but this is kind of y'all don't even know where he is

we we might we don't know for sure he's had his name and identity changed but we think we might have found a city so we're working on that in the meantime but the trust has to go you know kind of go assuming that that maybe we don't find him before my dad passes okay well you'd have to ask your attorney for oregon law on that but I would suppose you could put a clause in there that if we can't locate him within you know x number of months then this clot then all of that all of their shares just revert revert to the other kids okay and you know your dad has to um believe that you all are really going to look for him yeah yeah because you could just not locate him you could just i mean you if you wanted to not

do your dad's wishes which you're not saying okay but you could just not try and with that clause and then the shares would all revert to you guys the rest yeah i think i think that's mostly in the attorney's hands that he would be the one that would that's part of what's happening is that the attorney would be the one to hunt him down so i don't think it would be i don't think we would have the ability to drop that ball the way that it's being written up okay all right the attorney can't find him within x number of days 180 days then um and he won't and or he won't meet if he does find him he won't meet the the guidelines that your dad's putting in place if he won't if

he won't agree to do those things like he just gives you guys the bird after you find him right which very well might happen um i mean this is going to be weird for him i know and i feel really sad for him because he was two years old when he was taken and as far as taken by his mother yes okay all right and so she just she just jet she just jetted with the kid before amber alert and is mom still around do we have contact with her no no she she changed her name she changed the the boy's name and her youngest son from a previous marriage but the her older sons their names are still true and that's how we've kind of been able to make some connections on facebook it's like a true crime podcast yeah

yeah well i think you guys from a relational standpoint, I think your dad, if he wants to go this far and be a blessing financially to this child, my advice to him would be, you guys pull out all the stops right now. You hire a private detective. You go find the guy. Uh-huh. Right now. Okay okay while your dad's alive okay that's that's just a practical piece of advice it's not legal or financial because it's going to be a whole lot easier to figure out what the flip to do once you can locate the guy and actually begin a conversation right but if you otherwise i guess

you just put in the trust you again i don't know oregon law but you'd have to and i assume most areas you could just put a clause in the trust that if the attorney if the attorney cannot find within 180 days of death cannot find him or whatever number of days then the shares revert to you guys or and or if he chooses you do find him and he chooses not to meet the the your dad put in place, the guidelines. Right. Is your dad in good health? No.

Okay. Yeah, no, that's why we're making some moves on this. I mean, he might live another decade, but he might go tomorrow. It's one of those unknown things. Is it appropriate to require possibly a DNA test as part of this brother proving his identity in the trial? Sure.

We know exactly who he is. He looks just like my dad and everything, but it would be more if there was other family who tried to contest it. His other family that tried to contest it, if that was ever an issue. they don't get to they don't have a they don't have a standing with the court to contest the will because they're not a participant the only thing they would do is just stir up trouble but i mean they're not there's nothing legally that they could do like i don't i couldn't

come in out of the blue and and jump into your all's deal you know george couldn't come in out of the blue and jump into your all's deal. You know, George couldn't and contest. Right. You can't contest something you don't have anything to do with. And all the rest of that bunch has nothing to do with this. Yeah. His other half-brothers and his mother who's nutty and all this other stuff. Right.

I'm definitely trying to keep it just about the mechanics of the trust because there's lots of different emotions involved and i really more than anything i just really want to honor what my dad what my dad's desire is for this yeah um well your dad is being unfair to the rest of you all to leave this to you to do he should go do it now i'm sorry it what find the brother find him and re-establish contact yes he's he's actively working on that okay we're we've got like plans a b and c in place and some things are still unknown so he's actively working on this a massive wealth stephanie what is the estate um it's more than he ever thought he would. He's got a couple of properties that we would sell,

and currently it would be between probably $500,000 and $900,000. Split between the five of you? Okay. Yeah, but there's a possibility that just part of it would go five ways and the rest of it would just go four ways if this brother doesn't want to participate. That's stuff we're still trying to figure out. Yeah. So yeah, I just think you're going to get the guidelines. It's, it's two, three paragraphs in this trust. It doesn't have to be rocket science. You know, here's the things that we're requiring a DNA test, um, some other proof

of identity, um, integration back into the family, changing the name. And changing the name. And we require those things. Otherwise, but it's for a hundred grand. He may not want to do it. It's a lot to ask. I mean, you're not got a lot of leverage here. This is your dad trying to make good too many years too late.

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Plus, you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit betterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.com slash Deloney. George Campbell, Ramsey Personalities, my co-host today. Tyler is in Alabama, Birmingham to be precise. Hey, Tyler, what's up? Hey, Dave, I'm good. How you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Yeah, so I'm trying to invite the ways of Dave into the house, and it seems like getting traction is kind of tough. Me and my wife, we've overcome a lot in the past five or six years, and money is kind of the next thing up for us to start handling. We've got a young family two boys six and five years old um the i want to start doing the baby steps the math is there i make enough and i have enough left over to start getting some traction but it's you know at the end of the month we're like where'd it go um we feel like we're not doing anything extravagant but obviously

we are it's just seems like fast food and gas stations and then mother's days birthdays etc you know um but whenever it seems like whenever the money conversation comes up there's just a lot of emotion tied to it and it kind of devolves into either emotions or a little bit of finger pointing and things like that so i just wanted y'all's advice on how to kind of get this thing going. That was pretty vague. You're saying you're having a discussion using the tone that you're using with us right now, or you're emotional? I get there. Probably to my own fault, I kind of wait until I'm aggravated and impatient about money,

and that's when I want to talk about it, you know that's that that is your fault you're right right um and she's emotional too uh yeah you sort of push each other's buttons when this comes up let me let me backtrack a second you said we've overcome a lot what does that mean uh so we've been sober clean and sober from drugs and alcohol for about six years. Good for you. Congratulations. How long have you been married? I appreciate it.

For the same amount of time thereabout. Got married a little bit before we got clean. Wow. And what do you do for a living? I'm a field manager for a HVAC company, a residential company here in Birmingham. And what's your household income? It's $100,000 salary right now. This is the first year that they're introducing a profit bonus at the end of the year,

but I don't really know what to expect, so I'm not really counting those chickens before they hatch. Got it. Fair enough. On the budget, I'm sticking to $100,000. So how old are you? I am 28 years old. Okay, good, good. Well, so all of that is part of this story. The budget conversation, the two of you sitting down,

includes all of your stuff from the past. Right. And all of your things out of your the thing you way you grew up it includes um uh you know the the way you have money was handled at your house when you're a kid the way money was handled at her house when she was a kid uh the getting clean and the having been uh needing to get clean uh then uh now you're making more money than you've ever made in your life all of that comes all of that adds to it so you know what what i would suggest is that you start over with the approach and you start tonight when you're calm and you sit down yeah number

one when you're calm not when you're frustrated and i think you probably start with an apology like i think we can do better with our money and i've not handled our discussions very well i've screwed this up i'm sorry because you are you should be yeah sure yeah yeah absolutely and um the first to tell you if i'm at fault in the way that i kind of had to be in charge of the stuff at first if yeah i was a couple steps ahead as far as as far as getting clean when it all first started out so there's some echoes of some fear exactly all those concerns it's control it's control issues and say okay today we're clean and have been a long time. Today, this is you talking to your wife, we make more money than we've ever made.

And we're both sober and smart. So today, if we were to start doing a budget or start talking about money, it's going to be different than it was in the past. Today, we both have a vote. Today, we would consider everything together and decide as a team what we are going to do with our money and so you get a vote i get a vote we're going to sit here and talk about it and and you know you don't you don't start talking about what to do until you talk about why to do it. Because I think if I make $100,000 a year, A, we could clean up our mess. B, we could become wealthy. And C, we could travel

or have nice cars that are paid for. We can move up in house. All of those things can happen if we can get our hands around this subject. And I think that would be exciting and kind of start dreaming together again about what a really cool, prosperous future would look like. Does that make sense? Then talk about what? But husbands typically were the worst. Sometimes wives do it, but it's usually husbands.

We talk about what to do because we're going to jump in there and fix it. And so Dave Ramsey says, you need to sell your car. Yeah. You know, and that crap, then you turn my name into a cuss word and I didn't even do anything, you know? Right. And so that's, that's, you got to sit down and talk about, let's talk about big picture. I think, you know, we've got this trash in our rear view mirror.

We've got sunshine out the windshield. We could really have an incredible life. We could change our family tree. I get excited about it and talk and get her and then shut up and let her tell you what she'd like to do. Ask her questions. Hey, what are you excited about? What are you dreaming about? If we had a million dollars, what would you want to do ask her questions hey what are you excited about what are you dreaming about if we if we had a million dollars what would you want to do yeah right okay now let's go get a

million dollars then she's excited about the plan then and she's she's not and she's not got you coming at her with finger wagging and go you know if you just quit going chick-fil-a every day we could do this you know you can't do that that that crap doesn't work man so we both are gonna we're gonna i i i think we could lay out a plan together that we both agree on and stick to and um we can do with our money smart things and have some fun along the way and become wealthy and and i think that kind of lingo, that kind of sentence structure is what's going to help you. George, what do y'all? Well, and then you go and listen, this is not going to be my harebrained plan. I've got,

I found this plan. Millions of people have done it. It's so simple and yet it's hard because it's going to take us making some sacrifices. When you look at it, see if you think it's good. Yeah. And she checks it out and give her a vote because right now a lot of the times with your excitement or passion or frustration it just comes across it brings the echo back from the days when you had firm fist on the money because she wasn't clean yet right and she feels like you're taking that control away again you're marching back into her life with muddy boots again and so you're you're bringing up now i'm going to send you rachel's book uh for both of you to read um know yourself know your money because it goes into the household you grew up in it goes into are you a scarcity person or an

abundance person it goes into all of those things enter into this discussion and all of the stuff in that book is why the budget committee meeting we call it is a difficult meeting at first because you bring all these suitcases all these suitcases full of crap into the meeting all your shame guilt baggage mistakes family trauma it comes with you yeah and you got to be the ones to change it generationally. Accusations, all these things come in there. And so you've got to go, okay, we don't do that anymore. And so, and you guys out there, it does take a little while to build trust.

It takes a little while to, Sharon at first didn't believe she had a vote. Even though you told her, Hey, you've got to vote. You've got to show her with your action. She had to, you know, she had to experience it for a while because for a long while she didn't have a vote and I just did whatever flip I want to do. And so, you know, we've been married 43 years. She said, you know, somewhere around 35 of them are awesome. That's a pretty good track record. The more the time goes on, the better percentage you have. And it's like, you know, how many years, think about, we went completely broke, lost everything. They took the water meter out of the front of the house because I kept turning it back on after they

turned it off. And they just took it away. They took it away. I didn't know you could do that. Well, they have to when you keep stealing water, and that's what I was doing. So, I mean, we were that broke. So we went from this level of terror to having an emergency fund. And how many years do you think that we had to not touch that emergency fund for her to heal? Multiple? Yeah. Three, five?

It wasn't ten minutes, baby. I can tell you that. It wasn't just because I said it it took a little time it's a process this is the Ramsey Show do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed

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Simply search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play. If you're listening on a podcast, just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke. He is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. James is in Salt Lake City. Hi, James. How are you? Really good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yeah, so we have a situation here. My wife and I got married about three months ago, and my father-in-law, I know you say there's always a little bit of crazy in the family, and I feel like he's been the crazy in our family so far. We learned a few months ago he drained his 401k to send to somebody in the Philippines because they promised him a 50% return on his investment. And he didn't tell anyone and he was so excited about it that he quit his job. And then he just sold his house. I helped him sell his house because I'm an agent.

And we also had a – he's planning on going back to the Philippines. He's wanting to move there because he just reached the 62 and a half and wants to retire. And he's so excited about this investment that he feels like he can. But he has zero savings. He just sold the house. And yesterday we closed and got the money. It's in my wife and I's account, but he wants to spend all of it in that investment in the Philippines.

Cause he wants to get more of a return. So we do have that power of attorney that gives, gives us the ability to, I guess, hold back on it. I mean, it was originally intended to give us access to his accounts while he's gone and manage things. But we feel like this is some kind of Ponzi scheme again, and he doesn't have any savings, any income. And we're kind of worried about what to do especially because with the has anybody talked to him about the fact that he got scammed we've tried to but and he doesn't believe it kind of fuels him no he doesn't believe it and it's kind of fueled him even more he's like oh i'm going to prove to

them that it's not a scam by sending more and then every time he talks to the person he sends money to with some doubts she's like oh i'll give And then every time he talks to the person he sends money to with some doubts, she's like, oh, I'll give you more. How is he communicating with this person? And how did he find them? It's been over calls. It's like a friend that he connected to some kind of friend he used to know. What's the investment supposedly in?

He said it's some kind of government project. Oh, boy. Yeah. There's a Nigerian prince involved. And he hasn't actually seen the return on this money. There's no actual results. He got like $2,000 a couple weeks ago, and that was after he sent his whole 401K over there.

So it's definitely not anything that he sent over, and it's kind of made him even more excited. Well, that's part of their scam is they give you a little bit, and they go, oh, if you give us more, and then you give them even more, and then they disappear. It's a pretty standard scam. Exactly. Okay, so this is your wife's dad.

You're a whole three months on the scene. Your wife has to tell him, Dad, I love you too much. I'm going to protect you from how dumb you are. He's not crazy. He's just dumb i mean he's naive right i mean that doesn't make him crazy people get scammed all the time that are trusting sweet kind people um yeah and i i think his daughter has to look at him and say, Dad, I am almost positive you have gotten scammed,

and you don't think you did, but because I love you, I'm going to sit on this money for you until this proves out. If you get all of the money from your 401k back, then we'll talk about doing more investing with the lady. But until you get all the money back and get a return, we're not putting any more in. $2,000 is just bait. But you can't do this. She's got to do it. But you're telling me you have control of the account. So you don't, I mean, this is not a matter of persuasion.

You're just telling him what you're going to do. He's going to be pissed. Yeah, and that's what we're worried about too. Well, you can't keep that. He's either going to be pissed or he's going to be broke. You get to choose which. There's really not a middle ground. Because, I mean, the guy you're describing to me he's got a hook

hanging out of his lip he's he's bit hook line and sinker buddy and he's about to be homeless which means he's going to be living homeless and penniless and stuck in the philipines worried about yeah yeah with the with their culture it's like if the parents can't provide for themselves the kids taking that and that's what I'm concerned about. Is he Filipino? Yeah, he's Filipino. Yeah. So I'm worried, like, oh, he's going to lose all his money, and then we're going to be married,

and then we're going to have to take her dad in and take care of him. Yep. And she needs to tell him all that. Dad, I see where this is going, and I don't like it. Yeah. needs to tell him all that dad i see where this is going and i don't like it yeah and you're not hispanic right no no yeah you really got to stay out of this just for the only chance you've got of him maintaining relationship with his daughter is if his daughter handles this. It can't be we. It's me.

She needs to say, Dad, I am not going to give you your money until this investment returns because I am almost positive you have gotten scammed. I know you don't think that, but I love you and I am going to protect you from this woman who is scamming you. And I know you're going to be angry with me, but later on we'll see how it works out. If you get all your 401K money back and I'm wrong, I'll release this money to you. But I don't think you're going to get your money back.

I think you've gotten completely taken in. And she just needs to tell him that. That's what I would do if it was my family. But she doesn't need to say, my husband and I have talked about this. She's got to bear the emotional brunt of this because it's the only person he can hear it from and come back to later. If you get saddled with the blame for this, you're just going to be the evil, evil son-in-law. Everything was okay until you came along. And you don't understand how it is in our family and all this crap right that's that's the that's the narrative that's going to come out of

this so yeah the only chance you you she has of doing this so you really have two options one is she handles it and tells him because i love you i think this is a scam and I'm going to protect you from this woman by not releasing these funds. I don't need them. They're going to be sitting here. You don't have to worry about me taking the money. And if you get all your money back and you get a 50% return on your money, I will release the funds because I was wrong about you being scammed, but you're not going to get your money back dad she stole it from you you got you got scammed dad and this is your wife talking to her dad and she doesn't need to say bring does do not bring your name into it and do not say we say me because I'm telling you her dad is going to be pissed at you for decades if you get blamed for this move.

She's got to carry the emotional weight of this and for the good of her dad. And that's what I would do if it was in my house. That's how we would handle it. Wow. I'm so sorry. That's awful. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken

are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of all that grief, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different

companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You've got to say it out loud, and you've got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of a stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282. Or go to zander.com.

George Campbell Ramsey Personality is my co-host. Keisha is with us in San Antonio. Hi, Keisha, how are you? Hi, Dave. I'm great. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

I'm calling because I need guidance. I am a great saver. However, I haven't invested at all. I'm 50 years old. I have about $300,000 in cash and I haven't invested. So my money's just sitting in the bank, not earning any income. And I need your help. I opened a Roth IRA yesterday and I put $8,000 in there because that's the max that you can put, but then I don't know where to go forward. What did you put it in? I put it in a Fidelity account.

I just funded the account. I haven't invested yet. Okay. What are you going to invest it in? I don't know. That's why I called you. Oh, okay. Okay.

I don't know. That's why I called you. Oh, okay. I don't know what to do next. I'm going to research, but I wanted your guidance as a blueprint before I started moving forward. Do you have a retirement plan as well through your employer? I do, but I haven't taken advantage of it. Do you have like a Roth 401k? Have you done some homework on that? I haven't done anything. I just started yesterday, and that's why I'm calling today so I can get some guidance. I have a little bit more money saved. So in my checking account for myself, I have $300,000 saved. I put the $8,000 in the Roth IRA yesterday.

My daughter, I've saved for her college and a CD, 5%, and she has $100,000 in there. And then I have a $25,000 that I operate. That's my operating budget out of my checking account. Okay. You are very good at saving. What do you make? Well, I'm a nurse, and my income varies. So right now it can be from, depending on how much overtime you want to do. So it can be from $150,000.

Right now it's $76,000, $75,000. That's cool. Good for you want to do. So it can be from 150. Right now it's 76, 75. That's cool. Good for you. All right. So this is not a one-time, five-minute discussion and you suddenly are an investor, okay? This is you begin the process of learning over the rest of your life about investing. And the more you learn, the more comfortable you'll be. Okay. It, it, it, like when you went to get to become a nurse and you went to nursing school you didn't go to one class and then you were a nurse you began a journey of learning and that made you competent does that make sense and your confidence and your peace of mind will increase with your competence as you learn more so what you're looking for is not just an answer from Dave on the radio or George for a few minutes here. We'll get you started, but you're going to start the process

of learning. And the more you learn, the more comfortable you'll be investing and you'll be as good an investor in a year or two as you are a saver. And you need to be, and I'll tell you why in a minute. Okay. So what you're looking for is go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pro and find the pros in San Antonio and talk to a couple of them and interview them and decide who you want to work with, what you're looking for, someone you're comfortable with, and here's what's really important,

and we try to not have any SmartVestor Pros that aren't number one, they're going to teach. If you go to our smart Mr. Pros, the people we recommend, they're going to do stuff the way we teach. So it's going to sound like we sound on the radio. The advice is not going to be the opposite of what we teach. Okay. The second thing is, is they're going to have the heart of a teacher they're more concerned about you learning a little bit before you invest because in a person who starts investing from where you are you'll freak out the next day when the news media has something to say on the channel if you if you don't know what you're doing okay so or if you just did it because dave said do it or george said do it okay so i want you to have someone with the heart of a teacher.

And that means when you meet with them, every time you meet with them, you should learn something. Okay. And so that way you're making your investing decisions. I'm not. George isn't. And the Smart Investor Pro isn't. You are making the decisions because it's your money. And you need to have your hands around it. Now said all that learning all of that that's what i was

saying i just wanted a guidance so if someone tells me something that's just too far off then i'll say no no this is my blueprint yeah okay well your blueprint is that you have to understand it or you don't do it that's number one one. We teach people, and George and I both personally invest in four types of mutual funds evenly, 25% each. So $75,000 each out of the 300, okay? And we would say growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. Mutual funds that have at least, if you're buying from a smart mr pro have at least a 10-year track record don't buy brand new funds now inside your 401k you can do exactly the same thing and max it out and as george pointed out do a roth 401 over there

and maybe they've even got a match and that'll help uh and you make enough, plenty, to load that 401k up and do a Roth with Fidelity, and you may choose to move that Fidelity or that Roth to the SmartVestor Pro from Fidelity, or they may help you do it with Fidelity. I don't care. It doesn't matter to me. Fidelity's not bad. There's nothing wrong with them. All these mutual fund companies have good funds and not so good funds.

And so you're going to look at the track record on the mutual fund and say for the last 10 years or 20 years or 30 years, it's averaged X percent. It's had so many down years, so many up years. And here's what the stock market has looked like. And we're going to measure that and look at that. And you're going to learn about all that. So four types of funds, growth, growth and income aggressive growth and and and here's why this matters okay the three hundred thousand dollars has been sitting there for how long well actually it's gone down quite a bit it was i had five hundred thousand in there but um

so it's probably been in there for five to seven years. Why has it gone down? I had a major expense that I had to pay $50,000 for that, and I paid for a funeral, and just over the years, I had a major expense, and that made me look back at my finances to see what I was doing, and then I was just... Do you have an emergency fund separate from this money? Yeah, she said she had $25,000.

Okay, you've been dipping into this over time. I would dip into it over time, yeah. Yeah, okay. So let's just pretend from an investment viewpoint that you had $300,000 sitting there for seven years and it made nothing. Okay? If it was invested at a 10% rate of return, over seven years it would have doubled. Exactly.

It would have become $600,000. So the fact that you've not learned about investing and not therefore done investing has so far cost you $300,000. Right. That's how important this is. Because here's the deal. You're 50.

When you're 57, if you invest it well, this will be $600,000. And when you're 64, that $600,000 will be $1.2 million. And that's if you never add a dime to it. And when you're 71, that $1.2 million will be $2.4 million. If you quit dipping into it and you start investing it well. That's pretty cool. Yes. I'm going to double my income this year.

I don't need your income. I just put your money to work instead of it sitting on its butt. Okay. That's all I did. And it made you worth a couple million bucks at 71 years old. That's how important this conversation is so congratulations thank you thank you for asking these questions oh thank you so starting from day zero today if i put invest this 300 by the time i'm 71 i could have potentially two million

yep okay just think every if it's invested at 10 at 10%, a lump sum will double every seven years. Okay. And by the way, that number doesn't come out of thin air. That's the actual track record of the S&P 500, the 500 largest companies on the stock market. 11.3% is what it's averaged since the stock market began. That's the average annual. And so if you only make 10, if you don't even do as good as the market, every seven years your money will double.

So get online right now and get a smart Mr. Pro in your corner. Go have a meeting or two, interview a couple of them, find somebody you like, and begin the process of learning and get this money to work. Get it up off its butt. It's sitting there.

And it's dwindling away because you haven't unplugged it from your emotions. You need to set it over there somewhere and forget it. I'm more scared of losing all that money than scared of the stock market, which has a great track record. So get on it. You'll be doing just fine. Good stuff. This is The Ramsey Show.

George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Our question of the day comes from Steve in Mississippi. Steve says, last year, my wife and I bought a home from a family member and have been living in it ever since. However, we didn't transfer the deed or title, refinance, or switch the mortgage to our names. Technically, the house still belongs to him and his wife because we wanted to keep their 3% mortgage rate instead of the 6% to 7% rate we were quoted. We paid $150,000 up front when we made the deal, and we've been making the monthly mortgage payments since last year. Recently, we've reconsidered the deal and want to legally transfer the house to our names. The bank says they can't consider

the $150,000 as a down payment because there's no contract. They suggested changing the sale price to $150,000 instead. Is this a bad idea for us? If we sell in the future, will potential buyers be confused about the low purchase price compared to the house's value? There's a lot going on here. A lot of mistakes have been made already. Yeah. Steve, what you did was unbelievably stupid. This is dangerous. Really dumb and dangerous.

Okay? Let's just pretend. Let's pretend the couple you're buying this from had a car wreck. And it was an accident. But they get sued for $500, or five hundred thousand dollars and they lose the lawsuit there's now a lien on the house that they own for five hundred thousand dollars you just lost your 150k in that scenario oh if the bank discovers you've done this, that the mortgage is with, they're going to call the loan 100%. You have to pay the whole stinking thing off in 30 days or they're going to start foreclosure.

There's a due on sale clause in paragraph 17 in the deed of trust that your relative signed, and he sold the house without the bank's knowledge under the table. And when they discover that, they'll call the whole mortgage and foreclose on him and take your house that you put $150,000 down on. Dumb. Oh, if the house burns, you got no insurance, doofus. Because you don't own the house. And their homeowner's insurance doesn't cover you as a

renter they had to transfer that to fire and ec and they didn't do that either a landlord policy so you guys have just lined up stupidity in a row and knocked it over like dominoes dangerous all so you could get a three percent mortgage that any mirrors you're killing me dude you're killing me, dude. You're killing me here. Wow. You just rented very expensively. Yeah. And you gave the landlord $150,000. What you can do is write up a contract that says, I'm going to put down $150,000. And put down $150,000 and go to the closing table and get a mortgage. And do a normal house transaction where you now own the house and you now have a six percent mortgage which is what you should have done from the very first moment

and if you don't and you want to just transfer that and just take over and you can't take over the mortgage get a new mortgage in the amount of the mortgage and what the bank is suggesting to you that's fine too i don't care get this house in your name now and shut up about your interest rate you've got a whole lot more at risk than three percent here with the level of dumbness that y'all have engaged in here gee man just unbelievable question dave you can't just make up crap like this you have no idea what the implications are so obviously he put in 150k would he have to get that back and then put it back in well you can just show it on a closing statement as a as a down payment you just show it on the closing statement because it's already been transferred to

the owner reduce the own what the owner is going to receive it can show but you have to have a contract that says this and you can't have two contracts it's called dual contracts that's fraud you can't have one you show the bank and one that's the real deal. You show them what you're doing. We'll put down 150. The money's already been transferred to them. Like it's like it was a earnest money deposit. Okay. And you can do this properly and above board, or you can just not show it. Now, if you buy it and you record the deed at the lower price to your other question, it does not affect the value of the property whatsoever. If you buy a half a million dollar house for $350,000, it does not make the half a million dollar house worth $350,000.

It makes it worth $500,000 because it was already worth $500,000. The house is not, appraisals aren't done based on what you pay for it. Appraisals are done based on what other properties in the area sold that are similar. That's how appraisals are done based on what other properties in the area sold that are similar that's how appraisals are done unless unless everyone in the neighborhood sold for 150 000 less exactly it's not going to affect exactly and so no i mean let's say you bought the house at a foreclosure or something at a bargain does that make it worth less no it's still worth what it's worth you just got a deal and so the last part of your question is not a problem at all so if the bank whoever the flip the bank is on this deal uh wants to just give you a mortgage and put the property in your name at 150 off the price and you guys go get a mortgage that's fine if you want to do a contract showing the total price and 150 000 credit you can do that too get

with a title company. They can show you how to do that. It's not rocket science, but people do not do these deals. Backwoods, Mississippi deals going on, man. It works like this is a land contract or a contract for deed. People do those as well. It's the same mess, same same exact mess and when you've got increasing interest rates or when people try to do this because they think they're taking advantage somehow that look but the the risk that you're taking is unbelievable here unbelievable um the jews ain't worth the squeeze that's what they say yeah and oh by the way if you do change the insurance into your name as if you're an owner you have to notify the mortgage company because they want proof of insurance and when you notify them that

that happened that's going to indicate that there's been a transfer and the due on sale clause is going to be activated and they're going to call the mortgage so that's how i know you didn't do the insurance because they would have already started a foreclosure on your butt so I know you don't have insurance you're screwed man go get this fixed this week as fast as you can before this thing goes sideways on you this is a disaster last year they did this deal and so this has been a long time a lot of risk you've been sitting on let's drive the car out on the thin ice and hope it doesn't fall into the pond it's gonna fall people it's gonna fall you're going in you're gonna get wet oh this just gives me a headache you pushed so scary so scary well i've watched people do and you know the problem is these dumb butt tiktok real estate scam artists people how to go buy a house and really you don't

have to take title to it that's just stupid butt stuff man because you don't have control of the asset and you you know the other party goes and gets an irs lien boom the title's clouded you're screwed the other party gets sued a half million dollar lien with a car wreck but can you tell this has happened to people I know? And I've worked in these situations trying to clean up these messes after they've happened. So, yeah, get this thing fixed. And, guys, you can't just make up real estate law while you and your buddy are drinking beer. That's not how this works.

You don't get to change the way things go down, man. I got an idea. Let's just transfer it. What does that look like? You're killing me way things go down, man. I got a deal. Let's just transfer it. We'll just act like you're killing me here. Come on, man. Wow. That does sound like how that deal came about. I guarantee you.

Man, I'll just title it. Forget the title. Just give me some money, and we'll make it yours. I'm telling you, it was at happy hour or over a serious bag of pot, one of the two. Something was going down here. It's just, oh, this is not wise. This is the Ramsey Show.

Wow. So what is the right way to do this? Let's go back in time. The right way to do it is to contract to buy the house, keep your $150,000 in your pocket, and go get you a 6% mortgage. And is this something you'd bring in an agent? You don't have to have an agent.

You just got to have a contract, and you got to go get a mortgage company to get a mortgage and you gotta you know get a title company to close the deal right and so title company can close the real estate and you can get you get title insurance and then you can get proper homeowner's insurance and uh the things you need to do when you buy a house and and this was all for the three percent spread oh a hundred percent and the guy selling it is just a he thinks he did him a favor and he said he said his relative or his friend up for a complete fall there's risk on that guy's part too he's got i guess these weird this rental

situation the biggest risk is he could get foreclosed on if he can't come. Let's say the mortgage is $300,000. And he doesn't have the money. And they call the loan, and he can't get the house sold before they, because somebody really sold to pay out, because he's got to pay off $300,000. They call that loan. If they activate that due on sale clause, and they will. This is 360 degrees of stupid.

Completely watched them do it. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're with us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Well, with undeniable research and data, George Campbell's new book, Breaking Free from Broke, exposes the most common money lies and excuses head on,

like credit card schemes, investing traps, and mortgage mythology. It's all the stuff you wish you had been taught somewhere in school but weren't. And he shares a story of how he went from a negative net worth to a millionaire in less than 10 years. And it's a number one bestseller. Cool, George. It's been fun. I love, I've been getting DMs now as people have been reading it, and they got the every dollar budget going, and they're saying,

I cut up my cards, thank you for exposing the system, especially young people. Now they're saying I'm gifting it to the young people in my life to help them avoid the mistakes that I made. So this is preventive medicine now. Because, Dave, you've been doing the emergency surgery for about 30 years plus now, and I'm trying to help the next generation avoid all of the broke mistakes. Well, there's two things in this book that are exceptional. Number one, the level of snark is fabulous. That's in there. The George quality brand snark is all through here. And the other thing is the depth of research and the

detail you go into on why these things suck. I mean, it's not just you ranting. We have, I think, 140 sources in the book, and they're all in there. Because I wanted people to know this is not my opinion anymore. This is all data-backed. Yeah, there we go. Just like that. Breaking Free from Broke, the ultimate guide to more money and less stress.

RamseySolutions.com slash store. Place to go. There you go. You can always get it at the store. Lisa's in Waco. Hi, Lisa. How are you? Hi, I'm fine.

How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay, I'll give you my question first so you'll know the direction I'm going. I want to know if we are going to have to live on beans and rice through retirement. How old are you? I am 53, and my husband is 59. And how much money do you have in your retirement accounts?

Okay, we just talked to a retirement specialist because my husband is getting close to retirement. And I looked at him. He is a postman and a pastor. So in his postal retirement, he has a TSP for 50,000 but then he gets up he will get a pension it's not very much because we just went back to work nine years ago and so but the total pension social security and TSP that he's going to be receiving as of today if he retires at 63, it's $2,068. Okay.

That's all the money you all have? Okay. So that is what he would be getting per month. Do you have any other nest egg? Right now, I've been working the baby steps since last year. We have eight children, and I stayed home to be a stay-at-home mom for their whole lives and then my last one is 14 and i went to work whenever my husband did and um he she was three when she went to school and the teachers told me i needed to go back to college

so i did so for five years i did college school full-time college full-time, college full-time, and mom full-time. And you got $50,000. Is that your total nest egg? My total nest egg, that's what it looks like. Okay. And you're 53 and he's 57. 59. 59.

And your household income is what? Is $7,700 a month. Okay. So. Okay. He does not get to retire next year. You don't have any money. Or in four years.

He's 59. Right. Yeah. You're going to be working a while. Okay. And you need to be, and you need to work the baby steps. How much debt do you guys have left? Okay.

I paid off 16 credit cards in 13 months, $47,000. Good for you. So when I went back to school... Do you have any debt now? Yes, I do. How much debt do you have now? $17,000 in a car, $21,000 in my house, and $32,000 in my school loans. Okay. We need to clean up the car and the school loans as soon as possible in baby step two, and then you need to start setting aside 15% of your household income into retirement accounts in baby step four until you get the house paid off. And when it's paid off, you load up everything. And you guys need to get with this.

It's time to clean it up right fast. Really, really fast. I've been trying. You're by yourself. Where is he? We've been living. He works as a postman. I know.

You told me that. Why is he not helping you? He is helping me. How come I've been trying? How come we aren't trying? Well, I take that back. Okay, we are trying. We are working on this good

both of you roll up your sleeves and gazelle intense get these debts cleaned up and then go from there yeah we've said for years now dave retirement is not an age it's a financial number you don't get to declare retirement just because you turn 62 you got to have money and we see too many sad stories where people go well i'm going to rely on social security and a pension to get me by and you realize we're living in poverty you got 7700 coming in now and that's 2000 coming in and your expenses are six grand in retirement you're gonna have two that's a problem it's an issue so yeah yeah we need to get the 32 cleaned up on the student loan get the car paid off um then there's only 21 left on the house that's good news so we can get that knocked out as we go along later at baby step seven or six, but then

start immediately. If you start saving $15,000, $20,000 a year and you do that for the next five to 10 years, you can build a pretty substantial nest egg and get with a good mutual or get with a good smart investor pro to help you do that, not a retirement specialist. Yeah, I don't know what that was. It worried me. Well, it's somebody they paid a fee to to help them analyze the postal pension, which is not, you know, you can analyze it all day. It's going to be what it is. So what we've got is 50K, which is not nearly enough.

So we need to be adding to that as soon as we get the debt cleaned up and get the emergency fund in place as fast as we possibly can. That's the idea. Benjamin's in Los Angeles. Hi, Benjamin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you so much. How are you today? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So I have kind of a doozy for you. I am working on breaking the family curse of poverty and, um, me and my wife are through baby step two, working on baby step three. Uh, and I have an eye on my father, um, and just kind of watching him live paycheck to paycheck. Um, and he's, he's working kind of as a handyman installing toilets in Michigan.

I live in California. And so in looking at Baby Step 3, after 4, Baby Step 5, 4, 5, and 6, the kids, I have two kids, all of that, I also am wondering if it's wise for me in looking ahead to his future, trying to be a good son, and putting an addition on my house or trying to save to put an addition on my house for when he can finally stop working or when he can't work anymore, I can have a place for him to land.

Be cheaper to rent him an apartment in Michigan. What would this addition cost? I looked at it, and it was about $60,000, $70,000 between. I got a couple bids, and so looking at it yeah about 60 to 70 what's your household income paid off 91 okay you got an awful lot of stuff to do before you start providing housing to your parents indeed i don't know how you're going to get to all of it right you know your obligation is to your children before it is to your dad yeah i just i just feel worried he'll you know be called on called on the street one day

what's one day is that 12 years from now or tomorrow he's 55 and he's able-bodied. He's 55? He's not 80. 55, yeah. Good Lord. We're worried about something that's a decade and a half away. Man, go run your life. I would not worry about this decision. In the next 15 years, go become a millionaire.

What if you're in a different house? And then you have to take care of your dad. You don't need to be getting bids on an addition to your house for a 55-year-old. Why did you even spend the calories? No. No, no, no, no, no, no. I doubt you're even in this house by the time he needs a place. You'll probably move by then.

Your whole life is going to be completely different 15 years from now, 20 years from now. It has nothing. No. No. Wow. That's thinking ahead okay go back to work in the baby steps and the best way you can serve your dad is to take really good care of your family and your kids and build wealth and then you'll have the money to write a check and if you want to have an addition and you got a couple million dollars 15 years from now won't be a big deal at all.

You can do it. But you don't have to worry about it today. Good Lord. You thought the guy was 80 or 75. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Campbell Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book

Breaking Free from Broke, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, Ramsey Network's production, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Oliver is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Oliver, what's up? Hey, how are you doing today? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Yes, so I was calling in to see if I can get some guidance.

I have been working on the baby steps for a while now, watching the videos, trying to learn as much as we can. We recently have paid about $35,000 in debt. Now we're left with about $40,000. So my question is, should I take money out of my retirement 401k to try to limit some of the debt that i have we're trying to save for a house um but we just recently found out that we are going to have to do ivs in order to start our family so we're trying to knock out the debt as quickly as possible so we can start saving for that as well so i was trying to see is it okay for me to use my retirement to

knock out as much debt as i can well you've got a lot of uh goals that are good goals having babies is a great goal the only thing better than having babies is having grandbabies if i don't know how great grandbabies are going to be i'd have been nicer to their parents so yeah having babies is a good thing right so uh and getting a house is a good thing these are good goals uh and so you're you're going at it you know the right way and of course when we start talking about IVF we're talking about something very emotional right yes I mean like like logic and everything goes out the window when you start talking about babies. They've been trying to get us to get credit cards, and we're not trying to use credit cards. We're not going to use credit cards for IVF.

Because here's the problem. Having done what I do, I want you to go do the treatment. I want you to have babies. I want to do anything I can to help you, okay? But I don't want you to be paying payments and it didn't take. You know what's more painful than not having your IVF work? Paying payments on an IVF that didn't work. With that painful reminder every single month.

Every stinking month. That's horrible. Don't set yourself up for that. That's an emotional train wreck you're asking for. Please don't do that. And I don't care what they say about how you are supposed to handle your money. They're just doctors, which means they're financial idiots usually. Okay?

So, no. What is this particular version of IVF going to cost? They're estimating $25,000. Okay. Again, endorsing the idea that you're doing this, yes, you need to go do this. Yes, we're going to help you do this. I want you, having sat here in this chair answering these questions for 30 years, this is not the first time I've had this question, okay?

I want you to go shopping because that's a high number. I think you can do this less expensively. I think there are other people that do IVF other than the one you've talked to, and you need to learn about them. Okay? So promise me you're going to get a second and a third and a fourth opinion. Anything else you were buying for $25,000, you would shop it, right? Yes, sir. Okay.

But logic goes out the window because there's so much emotion, and we pay pay whatever we got to pay because babies are important. No, no, no. We're going to actually use wisdom about an emotional process. And part of that wisdom is not touching your 401k. Yeah. And there's two reasons why. Number one, you're going to pay an exorbitant penalty for doing so. Your income tax rate plus a 10% early withdrawal penalty, which is like borrowing at 30-something percent interest, which you would never do. And on top of that, you've unplugged all this growth and compound interest that would have worked for you over the next several decades. So robbing your 401k is not a place you want to go to pay off debt or to fund the IVF. What's your household income? Roughly around $130,000. Good. And you paid off $30,000 so far.

What's the $40,000 remaining? So we have $12,000 in a car, which we tried to sell off, but it was only worth a little less than $5,000. We have $11,000 in student loans, $7,000 in credit cards, $35 cards 35 in a medical credit card and 7,500 in a personal okay all right um so here here's no i'm with george no we're not gonna cash out the 401k how old are you guys i'm about to be 30 and she is 27. Okay. All right. Um, it sounds to me like you could be debt free in around another year.

When we broke it down, we have it scheduled for next September. Okay. So a year and a couple of months. Yes, sir. Okay. And let's pretend that we found IVF that was 15.

Then if you're debt-free in September, you'd have the 15 within three or four months. Theoretically, yes. Yeah, that following December or January, we can talk about a procedure. Okay. And you'd be 31. That's probably your best plan. If logic's out the window because babies matter and you're not going to do that, then push pause and just step back from the baby steps and scratch together the money and do your IVF now

and then after that start your baby steps back that's declaring it an emergency that's what that is if you do it that way and that would be like you cover your four walls your insurance and every other penny you're going to spend saving up yeah this treatment. And then as soon as you get the IVF behind you, then you start back and you finish off the $40,000. That's not my preference. That's plan B. But none of these include cashing out a 401k, and none of these include borrowing money for IVF.

You follow me? Yes, sir. Yeah, you can do this, and you should do it. And the house is just in the distance. You're just not getting a house for a while because we're going to put this in front of the house for sure. Agreed? Definitely.

Yeah. Yes, sir. No, IVF was when we found out we had to do that. That's what we knew we were going to have to do that before the house, but it was should I cash out just to get that closer but if you're saying that let's not do that let's just attack it with that little by little then we'll do it go ahead and do that yeah i mean you'll be done by september which means you'll probably be done by july or august you might you probably make it earlier than your math is telling you most people do

because you got a real reason i would say you have aggressive goal. You have a huge why. You have a huge why. And so roughly this time next year, you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and we're going to be starting to chunk money aside for IVF in one year, give or take. And so, you know, that's what I would do if I were in your shoes. And please go shopping please please learn more about um the different pricing models and the different one's a guarantee one's in a single attempt there's all kinds of different ways they go at this and it goes from 7 500 and up when you look at it that way and you got to look through and that that's what the experience i've had with the customers we've dealt with. And I've dealt with this a bunch.

Not a medical guy, just been asked this question a bunch. This is The Ramsey Show. George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Nathan is in Seattle. Hi, Nathan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So my wife and I just got married about a month ago. We're just starting out, and together we have about $165,000

worth of debt. Ouch. So we're, yeah, really. We're getting ready to tackle that, but I'm about to be eligible for benefits at my job, and we're trying to figure out if I should go ahead and do the 401k match, given that it's extremely generous. If I contribute 6%, then the company contributes 10% on top of that. So that's a massive multiplier right there. Okay. And what kind of debt is the $165,000? It's mostly student debt.

We got about $10,000 of a car loan and pretty much all the rest of it is student loans. What's your household income? Together, we bring in about $95K before taxes, though we're looking to do side hustles, work overtime, hoping to get that more up into the $120K, $130K range, but baseline, $95K. Why so much in student loans with a sub-$100,000 income? What were the degrees in? My wife got her degree as a licensed marriage and family therapist.

So that's $135,000 of the loans. It's a very expensive program, but doesn't pay a whole lot, especially right after graduating. She's still working towards the hour requirement for her license. Okay, and what are you doing? I'm a handyman. I didn't graduate. I've got about 17,000 loans myself, but I now work as a handyman. Okay, where's the generous match? That's at my job. It's a company that takes care of developmentally disabled adults, so I basically do all of the maintenance for the 14 properties that they have.

And what do you make a year? So you're not an independent, you're not a small business owner, So I basically do all of the maintenance for the 14 properties that they have. And so, yeah. And what do you make a year? So you're not a small business owner. You work for someone as a handyman. Yes, that's correct. I see. And you make what? I make $25,000 an hour.

Okay. That's about $50,000 a year. Right about. Though I have opportunities for essentially unlimited overtime so will she be licensed uh so she'll be licensed in about two to three years it's it's an hour requirement uh washington recently got rid of the time requirement so it's just basically as fast as she can get her 3 000 hours okay and in the meantime she's making almost nothing yeah meantime she's making about 45 yeah okay all right um

okay well the answer to your question is no you do not enter into the 401k even though the generous even though it is ridiculously wonderful and generous, because it's just a temporary thing. We're how quickly are we going to be out of this debt? And of course, that has everything to do with how much income you guys generate. And so the more more you can do on your side hustles and other things, and the faster she gets through her 3000 hours, the faster you guys are going to be through this that and then you'll start your 401k you got plenty of time to build wealth and if you don't focus on this debt exclusively and you try to do three things at once you're not going to get there so i hate it because i'm a math nerd and i know what that match will do for

you but it's a temporary thing it's just for a little while like a year i mean like two years maybe three but hopefully two and some change and you guys are clear and then you know by then her income shoots up and you'll be able to take advantage of this and you'll be debt free and have an emergency fund and you'll be setting the course towards wealth building but every dollar you throw in that 401k in the meantime slows down your get out of debt and it slows down your wealth building more than the match so i i did the math on it and it was it would currently it'll take us about three years maybe a little less than three years to get out of debt and doing the 401k match would slow us down by about six months yep that's

exactly right but it'll slow you down more than that because the power of focus psychologically when you're focused exclusively on one thing that's where we find the probability of you actually making it through the plan that extra 250 bucks that you're going to get back in your paycheck by not doing the 401k is going to psychologically get you so pumped because you're adding that much more to your debt yeah and the only other thing i'll add to the discussion nathan is the great news is you know how to be a handyman dude that is your side hustle you can make bank you know you can make 90 an hour as a handyman in your neighborhood just

running your own show man do you know why because i paid that to a handyman you did yes reluctantly but that's what i paid because you don't even know how a screwdriver works exactly i was willing to pay for the privilege you're that guy but you can make 50 to 90 in any neighborhood in america doing this kind of stuff yeah i'm telling you man i'm we're talking to handy handyman that run their own business you know print up some digital business cards and hand them out by their to the around to their neighbors and in wealthy neighborhoods and boom uh you go and you fix every little stinking dishwasher leak or replace every light bulb that's out or whatever else they need done and you you do it and you're you're you know you

wear blue booties on your shoes and you go in a smile, and you charge them a lot of money. And we're talking to guys in that world right now, Nathan, that are making $200K. So would you say that it's worthwhile then to not wait until I'm out of debt to organize an LLC? You don't need an LLC. You need to go get your tools and go to work. You don't have to have an LLC.

You just go get it you you can just declare a sole proprietorship that's all you got to do you don't need an llc until you're making a million dollars or something there's no point the llc doesn't do anything you'll pay self-employment if i were you my side hustle right now would be to build a great handyman business so big that it forces you to quit your tiny little job. And then this whole thing is not nothing to do with nothing. This whole discussion about a 401k goes away because you're going to be making so stinking much money running your own deal. The generous 10%, truthfully, is five grand a year right now with your income.

That's the max. You can create that with a side hustle very quickly and invest that yourself. Yeah. So I don't want you to get hung up on that. I think your side hustle is going to out earn your if you'll go do what i'm talking about start your own business right now today start handing out let people know in wealthy neighborhoods that you'll do whatever that you need them they need you to do uh and you know you're there to serve them and you're going to charge them and you're going to be on time and you're going to do what you said you were going to do and you're not going to over you're not going to double bill

them you're not going to rip them off but you're going to charge them a lot and they don't care george paid 90 bucks good god george i know but you know what it was because the guys actually showed up and did the work and i trusted them and the other guys never showed up so you know at some point it's not a hard business. Just show up and be kind. If you know how to turn a wrench and you know which end of the screwdriver to use, it's not a hard business. You've got to show up on time. That's it.

And people, man, because they've already cross-wired their dishwasher watching a YouTube video and blew the house up. So they're glad to see you show up. And you talk to these small business owners, Dave. It's amazing. They're making money, man. I'm telling you. Because they're competent and they have integrity. That's all it takes to be successful. Show up and do the work with a smile and take a bath. And you really can't, you can't mess this up, man. I'm telling you, you're going to make so much that this whole discussion about your 401k with this $45,000 job is going to be, because you're going to quit because you're going make so much that this whole discussion about your 401k with this 45,000 dollar job is gonna be because you're gonna quit because you're gonna be running this

bone business full-time for it's over that's where this is gonna end up going i love this story i can't wait to see the end of it call us back and tell us how it turns out oh and by the way then you're out of debt in two years that's what i'm saying we need a more aggressive debt payoff plan because what i like about pausing the 401k match is it gets you a little bit angry like oh my gosh i'm missing out on the match. Good, let that fuel you to get rid of your debt faster to get back to the match faster. That's the power, really, the psychological power of pausing,

more than the math of it. You want to hear the irony of this whole thing? What's that? Three years from now, he's making $250,000 as a handyman, and with her $165,000 worth of student debt to become a marriage or family counselor, she's making $80,000. That's an interesting story about the value of education. The value of a trade in today's society. Whoa.

Mike Rowe would like that story. He would. I hope he's listening right now. He would be giving us his little Mike Rowe snicker. story. He would. I hope he's listening right now. He would be giving us his little Mike Rowe snicker. That little snicker of his. That deep voice of his. This is The Ramsey Show. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke.

He's my co-host today. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. No one wins at anything accidentally. Oops, I was married 40 years. You stay married 40 years by working at it. No one wins the Super Bowl by getting off the bus and has no idea why they're there. They spent 25 years throwing a football and becoming the best in the world at it,

and you get off the bus at the Super Bowl. You don't get off the bus and go, I don't know what happened. Where are we? I don't know what I'm doing. You don't accidentally win. Success is a series of intentional acts. Wealth building is no exception to that idea. If you're going to build wealth, you're going to do it on purpose. And if you're going to do it on purpose, the way you do it is monthly. You do a written

plan telling your money what to do, giving every dollar a name. It's called a budget. And every dollar gets a mission. Every dollar gets an assignment. Every dollar dollar a name. It's called a budget. And every dollar gets a mission. Every dollar gets an assignment. Every dollar gets a name of your income before the month begins, and you agree on it with your spouse, and you pinky swear and spit shake to stick to the stinking plan. And then you execute your plan that causes you to win. You don't wake up at the end of the month ago. I don't know where

our money went. Look, we got a tax refund. How'd that happen? You can't do it. You got to do it on purpose. And that's why we named the world's best budgeting app. Every dollar. It's the most robust flex app out there. This thing is kicking butt. Tens of millions of people are opening up their phone every day, every week with their spouse, with every dollar on it, and keeping up with their budget and telling them what to do using this particular software, EveryDollar. You can download EveryDollar for free in the App Store or on Google Play right now, and you can even go to EveryDollar.com if you want to to it's free to check it out go get started libby's in orlando hi libby how are you doing well better than i deserve good how can we

help um so i have been just going back and forth with my husband and ping-ponging in my head about my current situation so i gave birth to my first child. Yay. What'd you have? Yay. A little boy. Little boy. Awesomeness. Very cool. Yeah. We have no debt. We use the envelope system for eating out and for groceries. Those are the only two though. And we're just really, we're minimalist. Um, we've been living just on my income and saving for retirement, everything that my husband makes because he's commissioned. So we just never know what he's going to bring in. Some years is great. Some years, not so much.

And, um, I, my job is pretty demanding. I work in the ministry, so we're always understaffed. And, um, I came home a couple of weeks ago to just a screaming child and a really frustrated husband. And he's like, you have to quit your job. You have to quit it. And that was really hard for me to hear because I felt like I was letting my family down. But I also feel like, and it's my calling. Um, so I'm just really stuck right now.

I feel like if we quit, it'll, or if I quit, it'll be really hard for us to figure out a budget because his income is so sporadic. We do have savings, but it's only six months, and I just feel, I don't know. What do you make? Torn. I make $55 a year. And what does he make a year? It depends. Oh, you told me that six times. What does he make? Torn. I make $55 a year. And what does he make a year? It depends.

Oh, you told me that six times. What does he make a year? Last year, it was $70. Okay. And what was it the year before? The year before that, it was around $100. Okay. What will it be this year?

So far, it's probably looking like 50 is what he'll make so he went from 100 to 70 to 50 yeah what's he sell uh insurance why is it going down um his partner and him they just haven't that they're one of their leads that the major source of their leads, it dried up. They decided to structure their company in a different direction. In half? Yeah. Well, yeah, it's been progressive.

That's what it's looking like. So I'm really nervous, but I also know we have savings, and we're very frugal people. I don't want to quit, but i do want to honor my husband so what did you say your calling was you said i this is my calling oh her husband called her to come home that's her calling well yeah well yes i know but my purpose is also being a wife and a mom um as much as i wait a minute let's just stop a second you just said you don't want to quit. I don't. Why? It's a youth ministry.

I just love it so much. Our kids just are, they're broken in the public school. It's dark and it lights me on fire. So you have some, here's the practical options. Either you put the baby in daycare and you keep working. Was your husband keeping the child during the day uh yes because the business has been so slow well of course the business is slow he's keeping a baby if you don't work your business gets slow yeah well he's not in the sales side of it i mean he is uh he's i don't know it's how is he not in the sales side and he's on commission?

It's because of how his partner and him, they split it, how they split the commission. So his partner goes out and reels him in. I feel like it might be time to end this partnership. Okay. Well, I don't have control over that. Okay. Yeah, you do. He told you to quit.

Maybe you could tell him to quit there's an idea uh anyway um i believe in being a submissive wife though submissive wife doesn't mean you submit to misbehavior or stupidity okay and doesn't mean you go it doesn't mean you go along with things that aren't wise that's not submissive submissive doesn't mean doormat you need to do and i'm not a doormat okay well then let's let's let's talk about let's talk about a proper biblical understanding of that okay and it doesn't mean you go along with things you shouldn't go along with that's not what submissive means that is not honoring if your husband was doing That's not what submissive means. That is not honoring. If your husband was doing cocaine, you're not submissive to that.

No, but that's different. It's not different. It's still misbehavior. It's just an extreme misbehavior. Okay. And him not running his career well, causing him to keep a baby and get stressed out to yet to to demand that you quit your job that you love there's a lot of stuff wrong with that whole thing so his career is what needs work not yours yeah he he needs to rethink how he's going to go out his career and it's not because his

income is erratic it's because it's failing it's gone down 30 a year for three years in a row and he's sitting at home not working well he he works from home so he's able to like you don't work from home if you're keeping a baby babies are a full-time job they're very demanding little critters. Have you noticed? Yes. There's no multitasking while watching a baby. Yeah, so that's mythology.

I don't work from home and keep an infant. So what's wrong with putting the baby in daycare? If you want to continue working, he needs to go to work. And he needs to rethink his career. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. If you called me up and said, I hate my job, I desperately want to be a mom, a full-time mom, and I'm going to quit my job because I hate it, I would say quit your job and be a mom.

And let's figure out his career so that you guys can afford to eat, even though you're frugal and you're minimalist, okay? But you've still got to have money coming in. And so he needs to work on his career i would tell you to do that but i'm also not gonna you know if you want to work there's nothing it doesn't make you a bad wife or mother to work yeah there's no wrong answers here unless it's wrong for you both Both of my daughters work, and they have three kids each. And they're godly women, and they're great moms. I guess I just don't buy the whole you can have it all thing.

So I feel like I have to choose. I disagree. It's not have it all. It's one version of motherhood versus another version of motherhood. And you're going to get judged on both sides. Neither one are evil and both contain guilt. You can't get away from mom guilt. It chases you everywhere, apparently. So I've been told I suffer from none of that. This is the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, James 1.12,

Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial, because having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him. Thomas Edison said, When you've exhausted all possibilities, remember this, you haven't. I do like that. That's good. Lisa's in Fayayetteville north carolina hi lisa how are you hi dave i'm well thank you for taking my phone call sure what's up so i was calling to get your advice about a rental property that we have that's paid off since the tenants moved out we've put about thirty thousand dollars on credit cards to get it renovated to get it ready to either sell or to rent out again and i just wanted to give you my financials to get your advice as to what you would do if you were in my shoes

sounds like you can't afford to have a rental property i know the thirty thousand dollars in credit cards a big no-no i already know yeah well i mean it's like you're too broke to have a rental property because you can't even renovate your own property right right okay so what's the property worth what's it worth so the comparative market analysis said it's worth 152 000 um once it's all said and done and renovated. But that's our rental property. We also have a house that we live in now that we owe $169,000 on. Total debt, including the $30,000 in credit cards, is $280,000 total debt. That's a HELOC loan for 83,000, our current primary residence, which is 169, and then the 30,000 buying the apartment. What was the HELOC loan for? So the HELOC loan,

again, stupid financial decisions that I made, but the HELOC loan was to pay off the rental property. It was like 43,000 that was left, and we paid off one of our car loans. So you didn't pay it off. You moved the rental property debt onto your personal residence. Stupid, stupid. You didn't pay it off. You just moved it. You're right.

You're right. Okay. I'm not yelling at you. I'm just trying to make sure you understand. So, yeah, sell it and pay off this crap. Pay off the HELOC and pay off the credit cards. Okay. Do the baby steps.

Start with the credit card. Then go to the HELOC. And then would you put all the rest of it into the rest of the mortgage, 169, or would you invest it? Not put on the mortgage. And make sure you have an emergency fund. Have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. If you're working the baby steps, you're going to do that. You're going to be 100% debt-free except the house.

That leaves $169,000 on the house only. No HELOCs, no nothing else. But you didn't even have enough to pay off all your debt. What was the other debt? You had the HELOC and what else? Credit cards and one other thing. So you're ready to yell, all right. I'm not yelling.

No, no, no, that was it. No, I know you're not. So it was $169,000 for the mortgage, $83,000 for the HELOC,'re not so it was 169 for the mortgage 83 for the HELOC and then the 30 000 for the credit card i got that that was that's it did you ask you then is that it that's our total debt okay so if you pay off the credit cards in the HELOC with the sale of the rental you probably will have enough left over to build your emergency fund out right yeah yeah yeah definitely that's good that's great here's another way of thinking about this okay lisa there's a thing called a sunk cost analysis

which is reverse engineer the thing okay okay let's pretend we had 150 000 sitting in the middle of our kitchen table okay stacks of benjamins okay Would we go buy a rental property with it and pay cash worth $150, or would we pay off all this stupid debt? Definitely pay off the stupid debt. See, that's reverse engineering it, okay? So that tells us to sell the rental property and pay off the stupid debt. I figured you were going to say that. I'm fairly predictable.

But it's a good thing, though. I figured you were going to say that. I'm fairly predictable. But it's a good thing, though. It's always great advice, and I appreciate you taking the time for my call. Honey, we love you. We appreciate you calling in. Thank you for being a listener, okay? Hey, no problem. Have a blessed one.

You too, kiddo. It's that simple, and it's that hard. You know, but the lure of the stupidity on tic-tac telling you that you gotta have a rental property and then they say never sell it it's passive income i got your passive income thirty thousand dollars worth of renovation there's your passive and it was paid off that teaches you what there's nothing passive about owning real estate it's very active um there's things called tenants that you better be active with active headache all the time yeah it's yeah and that so she so desperately wanted to keep this rental property she just kept backing into it and backing into it if i put enough money in

it'll make sense there we go eric's in fort lauderdale what's up eric hey how are you guys doing today better than we we deserve. How can we help? Yeah, I'm just wondering, like, what the next step is after being debt-free, because I feel like I'm just throwing money into savings with really no goals. Well, let's get some goals on the table here. How much do you have in savings? $50,000. How old are you? 34.

Cool. How much have you gotten in savings? $50,000. Oh, you said that. God, I'm sorry. All right, and you're saying you don't have plans. Are you single? Yeah, I'm single.

I'm not married, no kids. I feel like I should want that stuff because everybody has that, and I feel like that's what somebody my age would want or should want, but I'm really not interested in it right now. So I don't really know what my next step is besides just throwing money into my savings. There's three things you can do with money, and you ought to do all three always, regardless. You ought to save and invest it for future goals, and you do need some goals, whatever they are. I don't care if it's family.

You need a goal. Let's say I want to be a millionaire by the time I'm 40. I don't care. Let's set it up, okay? The second thing is you need to enjoy money. Have some fun with it. Plan a vacation. Yeah, and spend some of it on good old Eric.

He's a good dude. He works hard, okay? The third thing is you need to be generous. So always be giving, always be investing, and always be enjoying at some ratio if you're ever doing only one or only two of those you are out of balance and so you need to you know what i would do is lay out a game plan and make my money behave it's very satisfying to make money behave it tastes has a bad aftertaste on the back of your tongue when it

just leaves and you don't know where it went. That's called regret. Okay. And so, you know, you need, if you lay out and say, okay, I'm going to systematically invest. And if I do that for this period of time, I'll have a million dollars in a good mutual fund. Okay. And I'm going to enjoy this percentage of my income. So do that i get a check in from the publisher on total money makeover i get a nice check every so often from them on that i think still sells like a crazy man and so i take that check and it's already divided up half of it almost goes to taxes right and the other half is divided between fun, additional generosity, and additional investing. So when the check comes in, in a sense, it's already spent.

Pre-decided. Pre-decided. Okay. And just do that, and that'll get rid of this gnawing feeling. But if you don't want to get married and have kids, that's fine. There's no, I mean, do what gives you joy. I will warn you that about the time you commit to that you will she will run over you i mean you won't be able to stop her

yeah you you won't be able to yeah it's just going to happen about the time you think you got that yeah okay anyway but anyway that might not happen but you you don't have to there's no rule that says to be happy you have to do that um just because everybody else does something doesn't mean you have to do it so that that's that's cool but yeah being you're right george get some goals and what do we you know i want to own 10 pieces of real estate i want to own you want to start a business who knows what it is yeah and what would i do if i had a million dollars i don't know let's get a million dollars and find out but i love just splitting it up.

It just helps to be logical and go, I'm going to give some, save and invest some, and enjoy some. And then you create your every dollar budget, and you actually have a line item for giving. And you actually mark things down under that category. And you actually have a spending fund money category for Eric. And you put some things in there. And then you have no guilt when you take that fund money and buy a cool car. Because you pre-decided. It's not

impulsive i'm i got my generosity over here i got my investing over here this is money for okay i'm gonna buy a cool car and you don't have to go i don't think i'm should i do something wrong buying that car you didn't do anything wrong you did it on purpose that's cool that's one of the most underrated guilty spending this much on a vacation. Why? You worked your butt off. You should only feel guilty if you have no generosity and no investing and you're broke and you went on vacation. And it was all impulsive. Yeah, that's not what, but if you've planned it out and you got this money sitting there for that purpose, ding, ding, ding.

That's the most underrated part of doing an every dollar budget is there's no guilt. You pre-decided nothing's impulsive because everything was intentional. It's kind of boring once you get it rocking. I know. That's why you got to add a little bit of fun in there. A little bit of peace. Like you have to add an impulsive fun line item in the budget. This is, I'm going to be impulsive with my $20 this month. Get crazy, Dave. Crazy. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey folks, Dave Ramsey here.

You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind. And that's EveryDollar. The EveryD dollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money start budgeting with every dollar for free right now just go to ramsey solutions dot com slash every dollar and download the app today that's ramsey solutions dot com slash every dollar