The Ramsey Show - When Money Feels Confusing, Clarity Matters Most

Episode Date: April 13, 2026

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broken. Common Sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network. In the Fairwind's Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show, Triple 8, 825. 525 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by the incomparable George Camel. No bomber jacked today, just a shacket, and he's looking.

I didn't want to do you, Ken. You're looking as dapper as ever. Thank you. We're ready to go. Let's start it off with Zay in Austin, Texas. Zay, how can we help? I was just calling in, just wanted to say I love the show, and I'm new to Ramsey, but I'm really throwing myself into, you know, everything that y'all teach. I've already completed baby step one, and I just wanted some direction on how to get through step two.

Well, welcome aboard Zay. Baptism by fire. Let's go. Proud of you. So, what's the picture? Give us the financial picture and Baby Step 2. What are we working on? We're working through about $53,000 in debt.

You said $53,000? Yes, sir, $53,000. All right, break it down for us. And it's going to be about $3,287 in by now pay later debt, $785 in personal loan debt, $39,380 in a card debt and I have five credit cards, one with K jewelers for $1,415, one with Navy Federal for $4,300, one with Capital One for $1,500, one would Discover for $1,250, and another one with Chase for $1,000. And all those are maxed out, except for the card for the ring.

I'm exhausted hearing about this. I can't imagine how you're feeling carrying it. Yeah, it's a lot At least you know your numbers That's honestly That tells me you're actually To get out of this thing Because most people have no clue

What's going on They don't want to know And Zay, you've made a bold choice To go, I'm going to stare this thing Right in the face and tackle it Love it Absolutely, yeah, it's a lot Tell us your income

So I actually just got promoted To full-time from part-time So now I make $55,000 a year And my husband's in the military And he makes $30,000 a year Okay, so we're looking at 85,000. You guys are joint finances, I hope? Yes, sir.

Okay, great. And is he on board with this Baby Step stuff and this Ramsey stuff? Is he on board or is he freaking out thinking that you got abducted by aliens? What's going on? Where's he at? Definitely abducted by aliens because I was like, hey, man, we're doing, we're doing all this stuff, man. We're paying off all these credit cards and then we're closing them. He said closing them.

I said closing them. And he was like, we'll come back to it. I was like, okay. I knew it was one or the other, right? We've just taken too many calls. So, George, that's a now an interesting wrinkle in this process. Yeah. I want to know whose car this is.

The car's in my name. It's mine. I had it before we got married. What's it worth? It's only worth $25,000. Mm-hmm. What's the payment on it? $800 a month.

Woo. Yikes. Where's my Peptobismal, George. Do you have it? I don't, I think we ran out. You used the supply last week. Little indigestion on that one, that $800 a month car payment. Hoof.

Now, did you roll over negative equity? What happened here? Yes, I rolled over negative equity. I had a Chevrolet, which I didn't know those. Obviously, all of them depreciate, but apparently those super depreciate. And the only reason I wanted a different car is because I commute to work an hour every day, and the car that I had wasn't going to suit the drive gas mileage-wise. So I got a 2025 Toyota Camry.

That's the only car that could get you an hour each way. That makes sense. Yeah, I was trying to do. It was a joke, Zay. You don't need a 20-25 car to get you anywhere, okay? Just say you wanted a brand new shiny car. Stop shouting, George. I'm just, you're getting a little fired, say.

It was a test. Let me ask a real quick question. What do you do for a living? I'm a bank teller. Okay. Is there, and I'm just asking, this is not the primary focus of your call, nor should it be our coaching. But I wonder if you could get a job in the near future doing bank telling or something similar

for the same pay that doesn't require you to drive an hour each way. I actually did try to find a job in my area. We live right next to a base. So the areas, you know, usually not the best around it. And the pay, I make $24 here. And when I started job hunting, the most they would offer was 12 to 14 over there. All right. Very good.

And why is your husband only making 30? He's pretty low rank. He's only at E3. But that still feels, I mean, that's close to minimum wage at this point. Yeah, I mean, they give us BAAH and everything, but we don't see it because we live in base housing. So our roof over our head is taken care of. Well, that means your expenses are super low. So do you have any money left over at this point to throw at the debt?

So, no. Last year I quit my job for two months. And that was not the best choice. And we've been kind of drowning, just kind of treading water ever since just trying to like make sure things get paid at the very least. So you have a thousand bucks in savings and nothing else to your name? No. Yeah, everything else is flying to build. What kind of have you done a budget to where you can answer the question of how much margin do you have that you could throw at this debt?

And what I mean by margin is after we've paid the basics, right? So you don't have housing. So I'm assuming you don't have utilities or any of that stuff. So your basic bills above and beyond that, do you know how much you could throw at this debt every month? Well, what we wanted to do is try to start using only the money I make now and then just surviving on his paycheck. It just seems kind of hard with the $800 car note. I agree. Staying in debt's going to be even harder.

So we've got a hard choice to make here. which is we're going to have to get out of this car debt, and the only way to do that is to come up with the difference that we're underwater on. So you said it's worth 25. Was that private party value, or was that a trade-in value? I looked on Kelly Blue Book. For private party?

Yes, sir. Okay. So that means you're 14 grand underwater on this thing. So that's the number we need to come up with. Now, do you have another vehicle you could use in the meantime? No, sir. We're a single vehicle family. So that's the one.

So we need to also come up with a little bit more money to get you a different car that is used in cash, probably $5,000. Okay. So once you add the $14,000 plus, let's say, the $5, that's about $20,000 that you need to come up with in order to get out of the $40. Do you see how that's a good deal? I do, yes. That's what I was saying. We want to end up, he's going to be getting moved soon, and we want to go overseas. So that's why we were really like, okay, we need to start going hard because we want to either get rid of.

the car or something like that. We want to go over there with like no debt whatsoever. What is going overseas do for you guys financially? Financially we'll be going down to a single income. So we're hoping he'll get a little bit more rank. And we just want to, you know, have a different living experience on base and stuff. I think this is a fantasy right now. You guys can't live off two incomes with the debt you have.

And so this idea of going overseas is going to have to wait until you guys are completely debt-free. Absolutely. So here's the math. You got 53 grand. Usually it takes people 18 to 24 months to pay off their consumer debt if they go hard using our plan. That means you've got to be throwing 26-5 a year at this debt. That's about 2,200 a month. So that's the real napkin math of what it's going to take. And freeing up that $800 payment is your ticket. Which means we got to save up 19, 20 grand fast by selling stuff, working extra, living on nothing. Then we can finally get some breathing room and crush the rest of our 14K in debt. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Financial stress does not just damage our bank accounts. It can also take a toll on our relationships and on our mental and emotional health. Money fights are one of the leading sources of conflict for couples. I know this personally. My wife and I have struggled over the years with money conflicts over and over again.

Therapy can help even with money. Therapy is not about giving you financial advice, but it can give you strategies to better communicate about money, help you build healthier ways of coping and help you build a plan to move forward with your mental and emotional health and your money. I want you to consider talking to my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist

based on your goals. Better Help therapists are fully licensed in the United States and they work according to a strict code of conduct. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform and if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help.

Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com slash Ramsey. All right, next is Rose. Rose is joining us in St. Louis. Rose, how can we help today? Hello, gentlemen. The reason that I'm calling is because I am,

I was the sole beneficiary of a life insurance policy, and I am completely illiterate when it comes to finances. And I've never seen this much. I've never dealt with this much money. I mean, it's not like a gazillion dollars or anything, but it's substantial. And I'm $51,000 in debt. I had a huge back surgery three years ago, and I'm still catching up from that. And it's a trust payment.

it's a personal loan, a title loan, and it's credit cards and medical bills. That's what I owe. I'm receiving $125,000, and so your steps are going to be wiped out. Well, I mean one, two, and three and four maybe, are going to be wiped out. But I don't know what to do with the rest of the money. And should I pay it all? Should I pay all of my debt at once? What should I do after I pay it?

Okay. Let's go back. Quick review. Gotcha. We got you. Let me quick review. Is the total debt, everything you listed out is the total debt equaling to $51,000 or is it $51,000 plus? That's total debt.

So your total debt is $51,000? Correct. Okay. Do you have any other money in savings? We have no savings. You have zero savings. And is the $125,000, is that net to you or is that before taxes? That's net to me.

There's no tax in Missouri or I don't know the specifics, but I know I don't pay tax on life insurance. Okay. All right. George, take over, buddy. So Baby Step 1 is $1,000 starter emergency fund. You're right. That's taken care of. Baby step two, we're going to wipe out all the consumer debt, all 51.

That's taken care of. And then you're going to have bill. your three to six months of expenses in an emergency fund. And we're going to park that in a savings account. A high yield savings account is even better because at least it'll grow a little bit and grow with inflation. So what's high yield? What's that mean? That's just a type of savings account. They're usually tied to a lot of online banks. We've got a great one with Fairwin's Credit Union, who's a sponsor of this show, and they created a bundle just for our fans like you, and they've got it.

And so you can go to fairwins.org slash Ramsey, open up one of those. And that's a great place to just sock away money and not do anything with it right now. That's what I'm encouraging you to do. Six months. So what's six months of expenses for you guys to cover all of your bills? Without your debt payments. After my debt payments. That's going to be nice, yeah.

$1,500. Wow. We bring home $8,000 a month. I work for the social service, and my husband is a truck driver, and we make decent money. But we've been Robin Peter to pay Paul when I was out of war. I lost $52,000 the year I had my back surgery, and it crippled. us. And I paid for funerals of my family. I've always taken care of everybody else in my whole life. And I've never been able to save for me because I've always felt guilt because I've had more money than other people in my family have. So I buried my parents. I buried my brothers. And I paid for all of that that goes with it. And I don't have any family left. And it's just my husband and I. And I don't want anybody to know about this because I don't want to be taking a... We won't tell a soul, Rose. It's just between you and a couple of million. listeners. Yeah. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. But I think you've been helping everyone your whole life.

It's time to help Rose. Good for you. Who was, who passed away? My ex-husband. Hmm. I'm sorry for your loss. But the legacy here is Rose is set free from the bondage of her debts. Yeah. So what do I do? What do I do with the extra income? Well, we're going to tell you. Well, let me lay out the math for you. $125,000 minus the 51 in debt. That leaves you a set. $74,000. You tracking? Okay. Let's set aside $24,000 in a high-yield savings account. That's going to be your emergency fund plus because you have been living a life of scarcity.

It's time for a little abundance. This is your never going to debt again insurance plan. You understand? I could cry. Well, it's okay. You've never had $24,000 ready to protect your oath. This is huge for you. It is emotional.

It's a restart. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Imagine that. No debt payments and $24,000 sitting in the bank. and you still have $50,000 left over. And listen to this part, Rose. This is where it gets fun. George, tell her what she's won. You've won a lifetime without stress, Rose. So that 50 grand now can be used to do a couple of things. We can invest some of it. We can max out a retirement account, a Roth IRA, for example. We can invest outside of retirement if you have, you know, near-term goals. And you can use that to give and spend. When's the last time you spent money on yourself? Well, I want to buy a house, and I've never bought a house.

So where does that go into all of that? Well, that becomes your starter down payment. So now we have 50 grand as a down payment. So what kind of house are you looking for? What's that going to cost you in your area for a reasonable home? I don't want no more than a $200,000 house. That sounds reasonable. And we want to pull a jacuzzi, a yard for our dog.

Now we're talking. That's all I want. I don't want nothing luxurious. That's all George wants. Your list is the same as his. He wants a backyard and jacuzzi and he's got two dogs. I want a jacuzzi for the dog. That'd be ideal.

You would do that. I'm sure it's a thing. So, Rose, that's going to become your down payment money then. So you got your 24K emergency fund, 50K for your down payment, and then keep adding to it. Because guess what? You make $8,000, you spend $1,500. You can sock away $6,500 a month toward that down payment fund. That's right.

And earmark it. And in fair ones, you can actually earmark the different savings accounts. So mark one for emergencies, mark the other one for down payment, and just start adding money to that every single month. Okay. And with the nice income, George, that they've got, they should be able to get right into Baby Step 4 immediately with 15% when they're on every dollar. So every month...

Now, that's where I'm going to need to reach out to somebody. I bought the $79 thing. What's the $70? Oh, every dollar. Easy money. Yes. So that is going to be the foundation of your financial world because you're going to be budgeting for every one of those dollars coming in

so that they don't slip away into the abyss because Rose found a new opportunity to do something over here. And so that's going to help you make a plan for all those $8,000. And I'm going to hook you up with a dream team. Number one is a trusted real estate pro. Okay, you need someone in your corner who can help you shop within your budget, who knows Rose's goals, who understands the Ramsey way to help you do this smart. So ramsysolutions.com is the place to go.

I know Dave said that the credit cards aren't the end-l-be-all. You shouldn't have to have a credit card to be anybody special. and where do I, do you have someone within your team that will help me navigate on that app? Because I have our income in there, but I have no, I haven't done anything with it since I bought it. I have no idea what I'm doing. So it has a coaching function in it. Yeah, click on coaching within the menu, and you can actually get a 10-minute session with someone from our team and every dollar pro who can help you get unstuck. And on top of that, there's a ton of group coaching, ongoing coaching you can jump into.

I encourage you to do that. And then on the investment side, if you're like, hey, you said, I'm a literate when it comes to investing. I don't want to screw this up. I am 100%. We got you there too. You can reach out to a SmartVester Pro on our website, and they will help you navigate this newfound wealth that you're about to be building with your husband. So exciting. Rose, have you seen the movie Titanic? I have.

When was the last time you watched it? It's a favorite. Yeah. I would queue it up after you do everything that George said, because, you know, Rose is the name. with the title character. And I think this is like you and your husband, after you clear all these steps, it's your heart will go on.

Maybe you go. Maybe you go get a boat on the nearest lake and you don't buy one. We're going to rent one just for the day. We're going to pay cash. And you're going to get out there and he's going to be behind you and you're going to do the whole,

my heart will go on and you're free. And we'll let that be the end of the movie. We're not going to continue in the plot. Yes, no more. Just that part. Just the good part. Just the free. The debt-free part, right? That's what we're talking about. That's what life is going to feel like on the other side of this. Pardon the cheesy metaphor, but it may be one of the greatest movies of all time, George. This is an amazing launchpad for you, Rose. I'm so proud of you. And you are very wise to be self-aware and a little paranoid and go, I don't trust people with this. I don't know what to do with this. I'm so glad you called us. We are here for you if you need anything else. Ramsey Solutions.com, click on SmartVestor Pro, click on Real Estate Pro. They will guide you in this.

and our every dollar team will help you out figuring out the app. Get in there on the coaching side of it. Click the coaching button. Every dollar is with you the whole way. You won't be alone. Rose, we're so proud of you. You're a blast of fresh air today. Thank you for calling us.

Hey, you guys, did you know that there are thousands of data brokers whose entire business is collecting and selling personal information, things like your home address, your phone number, and even your relatives' names? You guys, that is just crazy, but that is why I, use Delete Me because those companies that pull information from public records, social media, and all kinds of other places. Then suddenly all that information shows up on random websites. And removing it yourself means going site by site, filling out forms and hoping they actually

take it down. It takes hours and then it can even pop up somewhere else again. But delete me's team of privacy experts removes your personal information from hundreds of those data broker sites. And within a week, you'll get a report showing what they have found and what they have removed. And they keep scanning and cleaning up your data year round. So take back control of your privacy. Go to join deleteme.com slash Ramsey and get 20% off your annual plan. That's join deleteme.com slash Ramsey. Let's go to Jackie next in Philadelphia. Jackie, how can we help today? Thanks for taking my call. I have a situation.

My daughter is getting ready to graduate from high school. She has an educational IRA that grandparents have been giving her money ever since she was a baby. Do we have that? We have about $30,000 in that. She was also gifted to about $15,000 about four years ago. And I'm not exactly sure when, but her dad encouraged her. to invest some, take some of that money and invest it in silver. He is under the impression that it is going to go to $300 and out. What kind of insider knowledge does he have? I think only God himself

knows that information. Yeah, I keep asking those questions, and it's maybe in conspiracy theory type stuff. He is very confident in his assertions, and hence my struggle with trying to get her to say, well, yeah, you probably have made some money recently in silver, but it's time to pull it out and put into something less volatile, like take advantage of what you've earned and, like, put it into something that you're not going to lose on.

And he wants her to hold on to it for the big win, And I'm seeing, like, it could also be the big lose. So I'm so sad. I would be sad for her to lose any gains that she's had. And I'm not confident in, like, going up against all his knowledge and trying to advise her. I think that's a very generous word you used for his confidence. Yeah, it's a strong opinion. I may be hearing something and I may not.

Are you two married? We're in the middle of divorce. Okay. The way you were talking about it, okay, that makes sense, number one. And so that makes us trickier. because now it's a splintered situation. Who knows what she's feeling? I don't know if she's taking sides.

So this is a little trickier, George. Yeah, there's a lot of emotion and baggage behind it because if she takes his side, it feels like, oh, you're choosing now one parent over the other. Because you have different advice. And because you're not the quote unquote financial guru, you feel like you don't even have a voice in this conversation. Pretty much. Right? Yes.

Which I'm going to go out of. a limb here, part of all of this is probably why this marriage is being dissolved. Yes. And so there's some really hard conversations you're going to have with your daughter where you're not going to make him look bad, but you're going to share a different perspective and do it in a calm way that isn't conspiratorial or fear-mongering, which is probably what she's hearing right now. Yes. So how old is she, you said?

She's 18. Okay. She's 18 years old. And how much does she have total? Is it 15,000 total? and she purchased some silver out of that? Yes. Okay.

So how much silver does she actually have? I asked her that, and she's not exactly sure. Her dad told her that it may be up to $30,000 right now, but he's given her the impression that that's a static number. Like, you've got that, and it's only on paper kind of thing. Okay. So I'm not sure of her original investment. I'm not sure what her house numbers are.

And this is physical silver that was purchased? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Well, I can tell you the less stressful way to go about this is to just park that money in a tax advantage retirement account or even non-retirement account. It really doesn't matter. But the idea here is if this was working for her in the stock market from the age of 18 to, let's say, 58. All right, let's give it a 40-year run.

And let's say she did all 15,000 over there. Is that fair as well? 16, but okay. Let's call it 10? Yeah. Okay. $10,000, $18 to 58. she never adds another dollar.

Do you understand that she just parks 10K, lets it grow in the stock market? Yeah. At a 10% rate of return, which they're going to come at me, that's just the data if you look back. In fact, from 1950 to now, it's more like 11.8%.

So if you just let it ride, she'd have over half a million dollars. Yeah. And that's without her worrying about it, without her losing her physical silver, without worrying about what the economy is doing. And the truth is silver and gold have gone up in value.

times where the economy is shaky. And they go back down in value as the stock market picks back up. But over time, if you actually look at the full picture, you will see the stock market has far outperformed any of these commodities and assets. So I'm on team, Jackie. I don't know how to convince your husband in the middle of that or convince your daughter while going through all of this. But the truth is nothing is urgent. Yeah. What did you... She does have school, like she's got college to pay for. So is that... Will this pay for her school? completely? Depends on what's close she goes to.

Well, so you've given us a lot of variables. What is the, how can we help you the most now that we got a full picture? Is there something we didn't address? No, what you're saying is if we do cash it out, which is what I want her to do. So I'm in a, you know, you think that's a good idea. Take the whatever gains. And so you're saying it should be put in like another IRA or because she's going to need to take it out in a year or so.

Well, in that case, I would just cash it out and leave it in a high-eield savings account so that it's liquid for her to pay for college. Because what's going to happen is she's going to go deeply into debt for college, because I guarantee you, unless she goes to the community college down the road, 10K ain't getting you very far. That's right. Yeah, yeah. And there's no other money you're saying. No, she has $30,000 in an educational IRA. She has $30,000 educational and then this silver money is on top of it. Got it.

So that's an education savings account, ESA? Is that what you're talking about? Okay. So that might get her through one year. potentially, depending where she goes, but we got to think about the next three. And so that's where, I mean, let's keep it liquid. I don't think you're going to see a lot of growth in the next one year, two, year, three year. In fact, that money could go down. So you want to keep it more liquid because we need this for short-term goals. And I just add this, Jackie. She's 18 years old. You already

know there's very little control you have over a lot of the things she's doing now, what she will be doing when she goes to college. You've got an soon-to-be ex-husband who is going to be an ex-husband who is going to be telling her, hold it because I'm brilliant and I know this is going to pay off. And then you're given the exact opposite advice. So I'm just trying to encourage you as her mother. This is not about winning the argument. I think you just have to say, can I give you another school of thought and do what George did with you, show her how that money should be used in your opinion and then you've got to let it ride because you're just in a tough situation where you got two parents. She's the one that's the victim in this deal. And so we don't know the dynamics of who she's choosing,

what she's feeling, who does she listen to more on money? Does she listen to her dad or you? So there's so much there. I'm just trying to make what's already a very tough situation for you, hopefully as stress-free as possible, that you've got to explain it and let it go. That's all you can do. You know what I'm saying, George? Like it's just... And hearing that she's needing to go to college and pay for it, I go, let's not an argument about where to invest this money. It's we need to invest in her right now and her, and her, current education, not what could happen in the future. If she does this right and graduates dead free, we're not going to have to worry about her investing for the future. She'll be just fine.

That's exactly right. I want to stay where you were, where you just gave such a really nice little master class on what $10,000 one time, right, turns into over half a million dollars. I don't think the average family with parents are saying, you know what, I may be struggling with debt. I may be trying to get out of this, but I've got a 15-year-old or 14-year-old. And if I can start telling them this now, and they go get just a summer job at 15, 16, 17, you know, it's not as difficult as we might think for a young person to come up with 10 grand over the course of three or four summers, right? Well, investing in general has been democratized in the last even decade to where now it's easy to open a Roth IRA. And any

child is actually excited about it because they saw a TikTok about it. And so financial literacy is all around you. The problem is there's so much noise that no one ends up doing any of it. They just go, that's a cool, I'm going to save that for later. And yet no one's investing. And so if you can convince your kid that it's the old, what is it, the marshmallow test. You give a kid, hey, you can have one marshmallow now or you can have two in an hour. Most of the kids are going to go, I'll take the marshmallow right now. And what this is, it's a lesson in delayed gratification. And at 15, your brain can't fully comprehend that. You want to go to the mall with your friends. You don't want to park in a retirement account. But you use our investment calculator at ramsusolutions

dot com. They're going to go, hold on, mom, I'm confused. 10,000 turned into 500,000. Explain that to me. Now you've got an end to talk about compound growth and the power of delayed gratification. And get in that calculator at ramseseysolus.com and punch in different numbers. I did this the other day, George, you've been very happy with my son. I'm so proud of you. My son Chase and one of his buddies. We were talking about. I said, all right, let me get my laptop out. So I go downstairs, bring it back up. And I said, all right, guys, give me some numbers. I have to explain it. They were losing their mind. They thought you were a mathematical genius. No, no, no. They just saw that. And they were like, that's real versus me telling them versus showing them. It's good stuff. Calculator can't lie.

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Could you imagine having George on your phone all day long? I think I would be delightful. I think you'd turn your phone off eventually. I'm sick of this guy. I want to know if I could get you to run. record all the basic responses that Siri does for me, and it would be your voice. A little snark in there? Yeah.

Yeah. Especially before you make a purchase. I think I could talk you off a lot of ledges. That's what we need. George as your conscience. Or I'm like, hey, Google a promo code first. That's good. You know, that's a good idea.

Hey, you can start every dollar for free right now by downloading it in the app store or Google Play. Shannon's up next in Washington, D.C. Shannon, how can we help? Hello. So I'm calling because I'm... I'm new to the snowball method, so, you know, I'm just trying to gather everything and get that down on paper. I need to get a new car because currently I am pregnant, and my car that I currently have right now, it's been broken into a couple of times.

There's, like, issues with it, so I just kind of don't feel safe having a baby in that car at the moment. The issue is that my car loan still has about $15,000 on it. and I wanted to, I called the contact, the car company, and they don't refinance. So I would have to either have a new car loan with a new company for the new car in this current car loan, or I would have to find a car loan company that would take care of this current car and then also add a new car payment on top of that. And I just don't know I'm really where to start on that, or if I should just wait, until after I have the baby and, like, save and try to get, like, a car from, like, an auction or something. Well, let's play that one out.

So that's our, the other two options aren't possible and aren't something that we're going to agree to. You gave us, this solution sucks and this one sucks even more, and therefore we're going to find an option C for you that doesn't involve you going into more debt. So you, you were thinking, I could work, I could save, what does that look like? How long would it take you to save up enough money to get something to? dependable? Well, currently right now, I do work full-time. I make about 65 a year. But unfortunately, my check right now is being garnished due to the double of the credit cards. So you had a judgment against you from unpaid credit cards? Correct, yes. What other debts do you have? I have outside of the car

student loans about 12K on that and that's about it again I'm still new on finding all of my debts and pulling credit reports and stuff like that so those are like the two biggest ones that I have okay and you're married no not currently okay is the father in the picture

yes he is is he supportive time as well. Mm-hmm. Yeah, what do the finances look like for the family? Well, he works, he has two jobs. He works part-time, and then he has his own business. So the part-time, I would say probably about $3,000 to, like, $4,000 a month.

No, probably $3,000 a month. And then his other business is a transport service, so it kind of varies depending on the job that he did. So likely is that. 40 plus grand a year? Correct, probably. Okay. Are you guys planning on getting married? I'm eventually, but yeah, I was definitely surprised. We've been pregnant,

but yeah, eventually that's... Well, what is eventually... Do you have an idea if you were... We're not holding you to this, but what do you... We're trying to get to the financial facts here, and it changes it drastically if you make $100,000 versus $60. So what is eventually, you think? If he was sitting here with George and I, we're just having a fun conversation, not putting you on the spot, I mean, what's eventually look like?

When was you guys thinking that you guys were going to get married? What would he say? What would you say? I would probably say in like two years, maybe. Goodness gracious. Why? Shannon, is he the one or is he just the dad? You can be honest.

Because I'm not going to force you to get married to someone you don't want to be married to. Right. Yeah. I mean, as it stands right now, he is just the dad. We do live together, and, you know, we've been in this relationship. But as far as, like, it progressing, I mean, I'm not, I'm not, like, 100% sure if it's going to be... So you're going to continue to play married couple, but not combined finances, have zero support, and just basically do all of this on your own while being a new mom?

I mean, I never thought I'd be in a situation, but... Right. I know. I have so much empathy for you, because I'm going, this sucks so badly that if I was this person in your life, life, the father of your child. I'm going to go, well, time to put my big boy pants on and step up and provide for my wife who's in crippling debt while being pregnant, because the stress of that is not good. Not good for you mentally, physically, emotionally. So the key to get out of this, back to your question is we're not going to go into debt. We're going to save up with our income

to get a different car. Now, how much is the car actually worth if you were to sell it? It has a lot of problems with it Because again, somebody tried to steal it a couple of times So when I did like the Kelly Blue Book It probably only worked like $5,000 at the most Did you file any insurance claims? I didn't have insurance at the time Oh boy, do you have insurance now?

For that car, no Shannon, you are putting yourself at huge risk I would cut everything down to the bone loan before I went without insurance. Yeah. This is bad. You make $65,000. Is there not a dollar left at the end of the month?

No, well, I mean, there is, but I had really bad payday loans, and so that was taking a lot of my money at one time. And, I mean, there's still some of them that are due, but I'm... So we're adding... You told me you had a car loans. student loans and credit card judgment, but not payday loans. How much is on the payday loans? Well, I'd probably say in total, probably like $7,000. Okay. Let's get real clear on that credit report. Let's lay them out smallest to largest, and then you're going to make a budget

for the first time. I'm going to gift you every dollar, our premium budgeting app, so that you can make a plan on purpose with this app and then stick to it. So that if you get $4,000 or $5,000 the month, you're going to know where every single dollar is going. And all you're going to do is cover your four walls right now, food, utility, shelter transportation, and insurance. You're going to get car insurance today. You're going to go to ramsesolutions.com and our team can help you find the coverage that you need in your budget. That's your number one piece of homework. And then after that, it's that every dollar budget. Set it up. Our team will walk you through it. You can set up a free coaching call right there in the app to jump on a call with someone from our team if you get stuck.

and then it becomes a game of how much can I save, how quickly can I save, because we have some urgency here with this baby on the way. When does the baby do? In August. So we only have a couple of months to do this, which means in the meantime, the baby might need to survive in this vehicle. And the good news is you're not going to leave that baby alone in the car. The car's not getting broken into while you're in it, right? Right, yeah. And so as long as it's not dangerous, it's not overheating on the car.

the highway, you're going to have to drive this car for a season until you have enough to get a different car. Yeah. And, Shannon, listen, you're going to talk to other people that are going to tell you that we're crazy and that you need a safe, brand new car, and you'll just figure it out. But I'm going to tell you something. How would you describe your stress on a scale of 1 to 10 related to money right now? Oh, like a 12.

12. Okay. Do you think that's good for your little baby and your body? No. And do you think taking on another car payment that's even bigger is going to help in any way, shape, or form to help you get out of this, miss? No.

We might be the only people telling you the truth. That's exactly right. And you can do this, by the way. We're rooting for you. We're not trying to be harsh on you. We're trying to give you the reality so you can face the facts and then take the proper next steps. So jump on Ramsey Solutions.com.

Get that auto insurance. We'll help you get that every dollar budget set up and you will feel so much better. just being able to look at the numbers in reality. Hey guys, George Camel here. Listen, we need to talk about your phone plan because for a lot of you, it's like a bad roommate. You know the one.

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George Camel is alongside. We're here for you today. AA8255-225 is the number to jump in. Chase joins us in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Chase, how can we help today? Hi, sir. Like you already know, my name is Chase. I'm 20 years old.

I currently work as an auto body technician, which means as a flat rate employee, my income is quite variable. With that being said, I'm about $30,000 in debt spread across a $16,000 poor decision toolbox, about $11,000 a little more to my grandparents' interest free and the rest is all on credit cards and whatnot. My main question is I have a horrible issue with a spending problem whenever I'm doing good at work

and if I were to get stressed out, I just go and all my money in retail therapy. And what I can pay off in debt, by the time I end up having a slow period and work like now around spring break, nobody's getting their car fixed. I end up underwater and barely able to make my bills. Well, the first thing I want to say to you is good on you for calling us and calling out what's going on. I mean, the self-awareness is awesome, Chase. And I think that's the first step to you winning. You know, I just want to applaud you because you know there's something going on inside of you

that when something goes wrong, stress, whatever, you immediately go buy something. make yourself feel better. That's a big deal. And I encourage you to keep digging into that and come up with tools, whether that's to go see a therapist or just do some hard work to go, you know what, I'm going to create some accountability in my life. I'm going to have somebody that I can call and that can talk me off the retail therapy ledge, okay? I just wanted to encourage you on that because that's half the battle. Okay. So let's get into this debt. Let's talk about lay it out. Give us the smallest to largest.

Smallest to largest. The smallest are some payment plans like Chase Paying for and Cash App Borrow that I use on the slow weeks when I don't have enough to cover my bills. I have to tap into those to buy food. I got a great solution for that. Can you delete those apps? Well, the Chase is my Chase. banking app. Stop banking with Chase.

Stop banking with Chase. Yeah. Switch banks. Okay. And the cash app is that how I pay my grandparents. Use Venmo. Use Zell. Use Venmo.

Think about it. If this was a casino, you'd be like, well, I should probably make it really difficult for me to go into the casino again. What kind of stuff are you buying? Really, it's anything. I mean, it used to be. it used to be tools through Snap-on and all the other tool brands, but I've gotten myself away from that.

What are you buying? Give me a quick list. There's a reason I'm asking this. Yeah, close video games. I'd sell it. I think you need a behavior. George is locking in on something. He inspired me to ask that question.

You've got to make some changes. That's why I said change the bank. Delete the apps. You've got to make some changes to try to put up. some hurdles because you're just so quickly salving your wounds by spending. So I was hoping you had some tools. I was thinking a guy in your line of work had some really expensive tools that we could sell. And even if it's 80% of what you bought it for, that's real cash to create some initial momentum. And actually, I think it's ritual. I'm a big fan of rituals at times when the rituals are

tied to change in emotion. And I think you need to go sell some stuff. Even it's closed. Even you've got to go take it to a secondhand store and get 50% of what it was or whatever that is. I have no idea. There's like posh mark and all kinds of apps you can use to sell stuff. So I would only download an app if it's going to make you money, not cost you money.

That's your new filter and value. That's good. And then I'm confused, Chase, because I know we got a lot of great auto body shops around here. I can't get a car in there. They're like, hey, we got a two-week back. And so I don't buy that work is so slow that nobody's bringing their car in. I don't know what that says about the shop you're working for, but I would find one that

stays busy. Yeah, and that has been the problem, too. I actually made that decision a few months ago. The last shop I was at was slowing down because of poor management and whatnot. That's the true reason. That's why shops slow down, not because cars stop breaking down randomly during spring break. Yeah, good point. So there's problem number one.

What are you actually making per month on average? On average, about, like I said, it's so hard to know. On a good month, I'm making $6,000 on a bad month, I'm making $25 to 3. Okay. And are you living at home? No, I have my own place. Okay. What's your rent cost?

$750 a month. Okay. That's reasonable for your income, so that's not the issue. So here's what we need to do. on the good months, you need to go, that is not my money to spend. That is Chase Bank's money. That is the buy now, pay later company's money because it's really not yours. You signed something that said, I will pay you this money back when I have it, right? Right. So now it's an integrity issue. So just make it an integrity issue and then remove all of the reasons you could go spend that money.

And that means deleting the apps, adding the friction, cutting up the credit cards. Have you actually close these credit cards and close these by now pay later accounts i have not that's your next homework assignment you know how i've stayed out of debt i was 40 grand in debt when i was 23 years old chase and when i got out you know how i stayed out i didn't give myself the option to go back in i didn't have a way i froze my credit with all three credit bureaus because i know i'm able and willing to do stupid stuff with money so that's the kind of value line in the sand you need to draw for yourself because the good news is you are so young that you have so much time to make up for the stupid tax. And one day you'll look back and go, that was cute.

Remember when I was in 30 grand of debt? Never again, man. I learned my lesson. Yeah. And I'm going to tell you something. Your way out of this, Chase, is getting to a better shop or picking up a second job where there's a good run shop and they need quality hands. I just think you have way more money you're leaving on the table than you realize.

You could go detail cars in people's driveways and make $500. in a weekend. Okay. True or false? True. And Chase, we're trying to encourage you. You are not that much in debt. I mean, the kind of calls we get, I'm telling you 30 grand for somebody like you who has ability,

who has time, and I think you've got the gumption now. Again, that's why I applauded you right at the start of the call. You want to change, don't you? I really do. Okay. You know what's on the other side of this is you deciding to do what George said, but then actually go work yourself silly. and when you have a bad day instead of retail therapy, you go work somewhere.

You got me? I got you. And one more question. We don't have a time for another question. I apologize. But you got enough to work on. You got enough answers here. Go back and watch this call.

That's your homework assignment. And don't do it because Ken and George said to. Do it because Chase's future is worth it. That's the new value you have for every single time you go to spend money. When you're drowning in credit card debt and collectors start threatening lawsuits, a rep from some call center debt relief company can't protect you. A lot of so-called debt relief programs leave people wondering, am I actually protected if I get sued?

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Frank, how can we help today? This question is about my 10-year-old daughter. My household income is about double that of my ex-wives. And lately my daughter has been saying to me things like that's so. or she wants to pay for things that are my responsibility, like clothes and shoes, for money she's gotten either for birthdays or holidays or for chores. What can I do on my end to help her with what I think is just a worry about money that maybe she's getting from my ex-wife situation?

Yeah, that's really interesting. Do you talk about money around her when you were married, even just? a few years ago she's 10, so she's been picking up stuff, you know, probably even at six and seven begin to pick up anxiety around money. And I wonder if before you got divorce was that situation where she would have overheard arguments about money or do you think it's all from your ex-wife talking about money in a fearful way, always telling her, we don't have enough, we don't have enough. What do you think is driving the fear? Well, we've been divorced since she was around five. Okay. So I think maybe just that situation. So really it's your ex-wife you think is

scarcity mindset based on reality and talking about it a lot around her? Maybe. I'd ask. You know what I would do if I were you? And again, I'm a dad. I if I was in your situation, I'd sit down with and go, hey, honey, you know that dad can buy that for you. I have I have more than enough money. I have more than enough money to be able to do these things for you, but you're worried about it. Can we talk about that? What causes you to worry about it? Just real, don't put her on defense, but just real, you know how to connect to her. I would get her to talk to you about it. And what you want is her to tell you her fears and worries, but more importantly, you want to know why she's worried and what's causing it, and that you need to address. Okay. And then when you buy something before, go,

hey honey, I want to reassure you, I've got plenty of money. Dad's very smart with you. Use phrases that one day she'll understand. Like, I budget. You know what I mean? Just talk to her like she's an adult. And she'll pick up a lot of it. But what she's looking for is reassurance.

And so when you go to buy her something, she's projecting onto you what I guess she's picking up from her mother. George, am I off on? You're spot on. It reminds me. Rachel Cruz wrote a book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. walks through these different money classrooms we grow up in. And this is the anxious classroom like we're getting at here. And she's worried about there is a scarcity mindset. And the best thing you

can do is to reframe this whole thing as, hey, what I'm doing for you is a gift, which means you need to do nothing in return. This is an act of generosity. This is not a sacrifice. You're not putting me out. You're not a burden. This is something I want to do as your father who loves you. And I think that's the best thing you can do for her is realize this isn't your money. You might have financial worries one day. Today's not that day, sweetheart. Daddy's got you. And she's so young that she can't fully even understand what's going on.

And so these conversations will continue and they'll get a little more intense as she gets more age appropriate. And then teach her to give too. I think that it's one of the most freeing things you can do for someone who's anxious with money is to show them that if they give it, it will actually lower their anxiety and they're not going to run out of money all of a sudden. Okay. I think that's it. Money comes from work.

Dad works hard. Dad stays out of debt. Dad put money in savings. And now he has the ability to be generous with other people, especially those that he loves. And you are one of those people. And Frank, you're a good dad, you know? So. Thank you.

Keep taking care of your money. Are you solid financially? Yes. No debt? Finishing up a tiny bit. What's that? Finishing up a tiny bit. Okay.

Great. So, hey, that's the other thing. Get out of debt. Have a strong emergency fund. You know what I mean? And all those things are going to give you more peace. And here's what, the reason I asked that, Frank, is not to put you on the spot. It's to show, it's to tell you that everything we just said will help.

But what will help even more is if she feels zero tension coming off of you around money. And if you're debt free with a fat emergency fund and a great retirement plan, you're going to put out an ease that she will pick up one. Makes sense? Morris Coth than Tott, as we say. Yeah. Okay. That's the last piece of it.

All right? And I don't know on both sides, because there's a divorce in the mix, does it feel like you're trying to buy her love? And I know you're not doing that, but does it come across that way when mom feels small now because dad bought her all this stuff? Is that part of it? I don't, no. No, I don't think so.

Okay. Yeah. Well, take her out on a date. do what we told you to do, and then explain to her, hey, I'm in good shape. This is what I'm doing. And begin to just talk about what you're doing. I'm going to be debt-free in four months. And then this. And just talk to her and she's going to feel that. And more importantly, learn what you're doing. And we hope she learns yours because, and we're not trying to create a contrast here. But if she experiences you very differently on money than she does her mother, hopefully she's going to go,

Dad's modeling the way, and you are the model, and that's what she goes after. So thanks for the call, Frank. Anthony's up in Cincinnati. Anthony, how can we help you today? Thank you all for taking my call. A little bit of background. I turned 52 next week. I've worked for Dave's absolute favorite employer, the IRS, since 2008 and ID.

My plan and my wife were to retire in five years from the IRS. That would give me the full medical, dental, all that. that good stuff. This year I was moved out of IT with a whole bunch of other folks to reviewing business tax returns. I hate this job. You didn't sign up for that, did you? No, I signed up for IT and a whole bunch of us just got moved over. Yeah. But what I'm trying to get at is I'm looking at changing careers and studying for my SIE exam and moving to like a Charles Schwab-type place. And the point of my call is I'm just looking for permission to make that change. Yeah.

Well, it's not something that I can give, but I will tell you that you absolutely should change because just go down the rabbit hole tonight on what stress in a job that you can't stand. And it's a different kind of stress. It's a, I have no purpose in this. I can't stand it. Just go do the research on what it does to your body, what it does to your mind. And that will be, I think, the last domino that needs to fall. I don't even think you need it, but I would go do it.

I absolutely believe you should transition to something else. You're still a young guy. You still have a lot of life left and a lot you can give. And quite frankly, a whole lot more money you can make. So I absolutely would get out of there as soon as I could. I would not stay around for health, benefits and pensions. Your health is going to decline in the next five years.

I'm not going to trade five years of misery for really good eye care, dental care, and all those things. When you can afford that in a better gig. The only additional piece of information, because my wife is pushing in the same direction you all are, is I'm probably going to take about 100K pay cut per year to make this transition. What are you making now? 170k. And you're going to go down to 70, you think, if you move into the financial sector? I'll take an entry-level position just to get my foot in the door and work up from there. But, yeah, I'll take that.

Well, it's never the ideal situation. My question is, if that happened today, could you live off of 70? Absolutely. We've been listening to Dave and following him for 20 years. So we've got, we're totally debt-free, including the house. We've got the emergency fund and all that good stuff. How much do you have in the NSTEC? We should survive.

The NESTEC is 750K in the TSP and 55 cash liquid. I'm going to say yes and. I'm okay with you taking the cut if you take your IT experience and you do some freelancing for maybe six to 12 months until you get your C-legs. If possible. I know that's with an asterisk, but maybe, maybe we could get $50,000 in some freelance work with your technology skills. And maybe you go get a great IT job in the meantime and work on your licensing and then you switch over. That's right. That's a nice bridge too.

I like the bridge here, Anthony. That's what we're telling you. It makes it less. That's a cliff. I got to jump. That's right. Listen, identity theft doesn't just happen just because you're careless. You can do everything right and still become a victim, whether your information is.

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You can even protect your kids for free on their family plan. Go to zander.com or call 8003564282 to protect yourself today. Identity theft is everywhere. Zander is how you fight back. Zander.com. All right, today's question of the day is brought to by Y-Refi. If you've fallen behind on your private student loans and have stopped making payments, it can feel like every door is closed. But Y-ReFi helps borrowers explore low, fixed-rate refinancing options that fit their budget. Go to Y-refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y. R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Ryan in Montana.

I've been following the baby steps for two years, and it feels incredible to no longer be living paycheck to paycheck. I no longer use credit cards and want to close them as part of embracing a cash-only lifestyle. What is the wisest way to approach this? Do I close them all at once, or is there a smarter, more gradual approach I should take? If I close them all at once, are there any potential risks I should be aware of? Great question from Ryan. Very astute. Yes.

I rarely use that word, but this feels like the time. I was getting ready to comment. compliment you on good usage there. Sometimes the words just come to me, Ken. It does. So at the heart of the question is he wants to follow the plan. He's worried about essentially his credit score. That's really what's at risk here of the credit score going down as you close all these cards

because your credit score is partially based on how many accounts you've had open, how long they've been open. And so when you close these, you hurt the credit score gods. They're very upset that you've abandoned them and they will punish you with a lower score temporarily. Now, it's not going to tank your credit. You're not going to have an issue like renting an apartment. But in the meantime, for a couple of months, it might dip a little bit. And then what will happen if you truly close all open accounts that have to do with debt, you will have no credit score after about six to 12 months if you do it right. That's what happened

to me. It's what's happened to several people out there, millions now, that have followed this plan that are credit invisible, as we call them. So your credit score becomes indeterminable, and then you just live your life. And renting a car, every rental car company has a debit card policy. When it comes renting an apartment, they'll go, hey, are you a criminal? Nope, great. You'll have to pay a little bit more in the deposit, but sure, you can rent from us. And even with a mortgage, I went through a process called manual underwriting to get a mortgage without a credit score.

And it was all kind of a nothing, Burger Ken. They kind of made it out to seem like you cannot live without a credit score. You can't live without a credit card. and I realized very quickly it was a farce because they've never done it. Yeah, absolutely. So there you go. Just go for it. I don't think you're going to regret it on the other side. And you've got to do it all in. That means closing all accounts that have to do with debt in order to actually have no credit score. Yeah, absolutely. Good advice. Let's go to Jim next in Dallas, Texas. Jim, how can we help today?

Hey, guys. How are y'all? Good. What's going on? Hey, so I'm switching employers in two weeks. I got a better paying job, but a year ago, unfortunately, I took out a 401k loan. I've been paying on it, but I owe about $15,675 left on it. And I'm not sure what I should do about that because I don't have that money. And it's going to default, basically, if I don't pay it off within like 30 days. Yeah, did you get the actual details in the fine print? Is it 30 days from today? Yeah. Or when you, you already put in your two weeks. Yeah, it's from date of separation. So when I leave the company, 30 days later.

Okay. So what day is that? I think it's like May 22nd. May 22nd. So we've got a little over a month. How much can you save up in a given month? Is there a bonus from the employer? Is there anything like that?

No, no bonus. I'm putting about $6,000 away for the debt snowball right now. We're on baby step two, so I can, you know, I can ramp that up a little bit, but not enough to cover the gap. Do you have anything you could sell, or is there anything you could do as a side hustle? Well, we've sold everything about the kids already, but I'm not sure. Yes. Okay, spouse is working outside the home as well? Yes, indeed.

What is the, what income is going to roll through your fingers in the next 30 days? We're doing about 12,000 household income right now. I think it should go up to about 13-5 with the new role. And how much do you need to survive and pay the bills and minimum on debts? It's about 4,500. Okay. So that's $8,000 you could pay. Yep, that sounds right.

Right? And that's just if we just use that income and do nothing else. We don't find extra stuff to sell, stuff to flip, do side hustles, get the whole family involved here. So the best option is obviously to pay the balance back within the window. I would find out, generally it's a 90-day window, so I'm surprised this one is a 30. I would see if there's any leniency with that if you go, hey, can you give me 60 days? Okay. That's your best bet, because in 60 days, you've got it covered. Yeah, somebody had mentioned the idea of a QPLO and paying it back by the next tax year,

but I'd never heard of that. Yeah, I'm not familiar with the old QPLO. I'd have to look into that. But the worst thing you can do is to do nothing and let it default, because you will lose 30 to 40% of that loan balance to the IRS. So that will just absolutely destroy your wealth. So I would just act like this is my one goal in life is to pay this back. I make this like a Liam Neeson movie.

Wow, you're on fire today. I want that kind of intensity from Jim. I agree. I've taken from my 401K. Exactly. You've got 40 days to recover this money and get the IRS and this employer off your back. Thanks, Jim. Appreciate the call.

Let's go to Paige in Kansas City. Paige, how can we help today? Hi. So me and my fiance just bought a house last year, and we both have car payments, and his student debt was handed off to a collection agency. So we have a couple different loans that we're trying to pay off. And I know in the baby steps it says that, like, pay off your smallest loan first. But our smallest loan doesn't have an interest rate.

So we're trying to figure out what the best route of action is to, like, what loan to pay off first. Why don't you lay those out? Lay those out for us, smallest, the largest. So we live in a, oh, you said smallest. So our smallest is the student loan. It's $7,0.34.59. It's $162 a month with 0% interest. My fiance's car is $9,645 left on the loan.

It's a $400 a month payment, and it's at a 17% interest rate. That's the one that I would like to pay off. And then my car is $28,000. left with a $600 a month payment and a 4.66% interest. And our house is 50,000 left with a 630 around a month. We pay bi-weekly, so sometimes we pay three times a month. It's at a 10.75% interest. What do you mean by a house?

We live in a trailer house, but we also have lot rent because we rent the land that our house is on, but we own our actual house. Okay. because this trailer is going down in value, so it's more like a vehicle. It's not going to appreciate like a traditional home. So here's the truth. Interest rates are not your problem. It's financial behavior.

That's the problem. And so that's why the debt snowball works, because if we were trying to attack interest rates and doing math here, we wouldn't have gone into all this debt. So how much do you actually make per year? My fiance, it's a little bit hard to determine right now because I just switched jobs. I'm a nail tech now, so I'm making 18 an hour flat rate with 40 hours guaranteed a week. Okay, so you're making about 38 grand. And you have a $28,000 car. But I also make a lot in tips.

I average between 10 to 20 per client, and I have about 5 to 7 client today. Okay, so you're making closer to 50 or 60? Is that what you're telling me? Yeah, around. This car is still too much of your world. If you sold this car, it would really alleviate things. And the second thing is, are you guys combining finances? Are you just paying off your debts and he's paying off his?

Are you guys all pooling money together? So we're trying to, we haven't done it yet, but we need to combine our bank accounts. And we're doing 50-50 in my car I pay in his car and his student debt he pays. This is a real problem. You guys shouldn't be combining finances until you're married because you're creating a real mess. Okay. What if something happened? He leaves and you just paid off his car debt.

While you still have a bunch of... Well, I'm not paying on his car, and he's not paying on time. You guys need to focus on your own debts right now until you're married and then combine finances, and it will get a whole lot easier and less messier at that point. But you've got to start owning up and stop looking at interest rates and start looking in the mirror. Buying or selling your home is a big deal. You know that. And with all the clickbait stuff out there and the conflicting data, it's hard to know what's really happening.

We're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Meeting home prices went up a little to 4.4. $403,000 last month. Mortgage rates also dipped to 5.4.43%, excuse me, down from 6.16. We saw last February, and that gave buyers some breathing room. But you know this. Rates can be unpredictable. So if you want to learn more about housing market trends and get some free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to RamseySolutions.com slash market. That's ramsysolutions.com slash market. Or you can click the link in the show notes. Let's stay right here in Nashville where Catherine joins us. Catherine, how can we help today? Hi, thanks for taking my call. So about a year ago, my husband and I decided to put some money,

well, to put some debt into freedom debt release, which is a, I'm sure you know, a debt consolidation. I know that you guys do not, recommend? Recommend, thank you. I'm a little bit nervous. That's all good. Take your time.

You guys don't recommend those, but it was an emotional thing. My husband had one surgery and the debt was just wrapping up. And Freedom Debt released, the cell's person being the cell's person he is, like I actually said, you know, I know this isn't Dave Ramsey recommended. And he was like, oh, no, Dave Ramsey actually does recommend us. and I was like, I didn't say anything, but I knew that he didn't. But my questionnaire... You should have said, oh, he does. I'd love to see that clip or that article where he recommends that.

Oh, yeah, I should have been a good line. Well, there won't be a next time, so I can't say use it next time. Okay, so you signed up? Yes, we did about a year ago. And what my question is, we're doing a much better financial position now. My husband got a new job, and... we're just in a better financial position. And I want to start doing debt snowball.

And first get the $1,000 and, you know, all the baby steps. But I'm wondering should I take out what hasn't been paid off already in the freedom debt relief. Yes. Yes. Get out of the process because you can do what they're doing on your own without the fees and the hassle and without tanking your credit, which they've already done.

That part's... Yes. We can't undo that. My credit's tank. Yeah, but all they're doing is negotiating with your creditors after you default and coming up with a lump sum.

You do that yourself. That's right. If you couldn't pay, you just wouldn't pay. And then goes to collections and then you say, hey, would you take $4 grand for my $10 grand debt, lump sum?

If it's paid, market paid in full in writing? Great. Done. Okay. And should I, because they have, because the pursuant they were taking the freedom debt release, they, basically I was saving, like I did the math, I was basically saving off $100 or $200, which is not great. The ones that they are currently paying, though, on, should I leave those in there?

because there are two that they are currently paying on that they negotiated. How many more payments are there? One is it's a total of 36, and I think I've paid four to six. I'd have to look on the app. And the other one, it has like 24, and I think I've paid like four or five. Okay. I would read the contract to see what you can and can't do and read the cancellation clause to figure out what you have to do to get out.

But I would just tell them how I want to get completely out of this, and you might need to do a written notice. It's like a planned fitness. They get you in real easy, but to get out, it's an active Congress. So I would definitely get out because you can do this on your own. It's going to end up being cheaper for you in the long run, even if they ding you with some fees on the way out. But these programs, they overpromise, they underdeliver while ruining your financial life.

But when you're scared and overwhelmed, their Instagram ad magically pops up to save you. Yeah. So I'm sorry you fell for it, but I'm glad you're getting out. Oh, yeah, no, I'm definitely getting out. And thank you for taking my call. You bet. I hope nobody else falls for them.

There's the warning from Catherine. We love that. And it's a good reminder, Ken, just to talk about what these companies do. So the way these companies work, if you see debt relief, debt settlement, anything that promises like debt freedom without you actually doing the work, here's what they do. They tell you, hey, stop paying all of your creditors. Instead, send us those payments. What ends up happening is you default on the debts, it tanks your credit score, and then they try to negotiate a lump sum settlement, hopefully. They can't guarantee that. Sometimes it doesn't happen. And the truth is,

you can do all that yourself without all of their crazy fees and sales tactics. And it's what you should do. And try to stay current on your payments if you can, because tanking your, credit is not going to help you at all financially. Yeah, I agree. Avoid. Rachel is up next in Reading, California. Rachel, how can we help? Hi there. Can you hear me okay? Yes, loud and clear.

Okay, good. My husband and I live up in rural California, Northern California, and he has a blue-collar job, and we have four kids, eight and under, and we're just coming up on our 10-year anniversary. We are on baby step four, well, I guess five. We haven't saved for our kids' college yet, but we're thinking about it. And we're just thinking about doing an anniversary trip, and I wanted your guys' feedback on, I guess I'm feeling kind of guilty.

I'm a stay-at-home mom, so I don't make a lot. I've been door-dashing a little bit, but I kind of wanted to see what you guys thought about anniversary trip. Like, I feel guilty for what I'm thinking about saving. What do you think about spending yet? Sorry. What's the number? How much do you want to spend on this trip? We were thinking around $5,000 to $6,000.

Okay. How long is this trip? Is it like a week or two? Yeah, we were thinking maybe 10 days to two weeks. Okay. I can tell you around now, 10 days to two weeks at 5 to 6,000 is not a, you know, That's a deal. That's, that's, you're, you're, you're not going luxury, you know.

You're being smart about it. You're making the most of that money. Am I right? Yeah. Yeah, we'd be definitely staying at really cheap places and doing. You don't need to stay at a motel six. Let's make this a trip to remember and not in the wrong ways. Well, yeah, let's get to that next, but let's at least take off the guilt.

There's no guilt for you guys saving up $5,000 to $6,000 to celebrate your 10th anniversary. That's fantastic. And there's no guilt in. you being a stay-at-home mom and feeling like, well, because I don't contribute as much, I feel like I don't, you deserve it as much as anybody. How long, have you already saved up that money, or are you in the process of it? We just, this is just a plan we've had in the last couple weeks, so we're just thinking about saving and trying to put a...

Is that going to stress you guys financially? In other words, we're going to have to be really, really tight to be able to save that? Um, yes. Yeah. I don't have a problem with that. either. What does your husband make? He makes about 4,500 a month, and with my DoorDash, I've been making around 1,000 a month. Great. So when do you want to book the trip? When do you actually have to pay for it? A fall sometime. Okay. So are you willing to continue the DoorDash and use part of his income to save up this

$5 grand over the next five months? Yeah. Yeah. I think so, yeah. I mean, you got the number. If it's just your door dash money every month, sometime in the fall, you got some flexibility, you can cash flow this anniversary trip just from your work, your part-time work. You shouldn't feel guilty. You should feel proud of yourself for that. Are you setting this money aside in a separate savings account? Yeah, that would be the plan yet. Good. That helps to earmark it. Because if you just have it in checking or you have it in your emergency fund, it feels like you're doing something bad when you take that out to use it for a vacation. So instead, earmark it, 10-year anniversary, vacation. And then when you put the money in, you know exactly what it's for. And then when it comes time to book the trip or when you have the

money, pull the trigger. I wonder if you've got $1,500 to $1,500 worth of stuff around the house you could sell too. I like that plan. I love that plan. You know why? We just add a little extra money to this anniversary trip, and we didn't have to work as hard. We got rid of some crap we didn't need anyway. And then do your research. splurge where it's worth it, cut back where you're like, we don't care about this over here, and you can work with a $5,000 budget easily. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Ken Coleman George, Camel, is alongside, and we're going to go to Minneapolis where

Ella is. Ella, how can we help you? Hey, guys, thank you so much for taking my call. This is awesome. Anyway, I have a question. So I'm following the baby steps. unfortunately I'm not able to work right now. I'm on a medical leave.

I have to have surgery this next Wednesday. And I need to come up with $4,000 before I have my surgery. And if I was able to work, I forget. But right now I'm just kind of at a loss. I have been marking things up. I'm going to have a garage sale and try to sell everything that I possibly can. before Wednesday I'm kind of, kind of stuck. Is it due up front?

Yeah, they said that it's to meet my deductible, my out-of-pocket deductible, and then, and so I've been on the phone and trying to work with them to see if, you know, I can get on a payment plan or anything, and they're like, well, that would be like the last option. I'm like, well, that might be your only option because I don't. have it. Is this at a hospital? Yes, it is. Is your doctor aware of this? Yes, he is. And what did he say about going forward on this or rescheduling or how serious is a reschedule? What's going on? Give us the full picture. Okay. So, unfortunately, this is my fourth surgery in three years, but, hey, I'm a

trooper. It's okay. Like, I get through it. So sorry. I go to work. It's okay. Thank you. I appreciate it, though. And anyway, oh, sorry. I talked to my doctor about it, and he told me, he was like, if anything, he's like, we're going to do this surgery. You need to have it.

And he's like, just telling me he made a payment arrangement. We're still going through it, and then they can figure it out. And I'm like, okay. Good. So. So. Yeah. So, yeah.

That's our. that's our sleep okay at night answer. And then you do everything you can, you know. Have you called the hospital billing department? I have. Oh, my gosh. We're like best friends right now. Oh, good.

What do they say about financial assistance, charity care, that kind of stuff? I have submitted all of, you know, my pay stubs and everything to them. They're going to try to review it to see if I meet the quality. but I already make too much money. And what's your next paycheck? And when's it coming? That's the thing too. I'm not sure.

Today was the last paycheck that I'm getting until hopefully my Minnesota paid leave comes into place. And it was only like 400 bucks because I've been on leave for the past two weeks. Was it unpaid? So, yeah. So I was only able to work two days this last pay period. Otherwise, yeah, it's really frustrating. And like I said, I do follow the baby steps.

And unfortunately, like, I'm in step two. How much more debt do you have? I have 18,000 left and I've paid off 60. Way to go. What's left in the 18? So what's left in the 18 is, Some leftover surgery debt. I have two small credit cards and two small personal loans.

And guys, I'm telling you, I have brought my budget down. I know where all of my money goes thanks to you guys. Good. And I had my $1,000 and, you know, I can live very simply. It's just my body hates me. Oh, bless your heart. But you have $1,000. dollars to your name?

Nope, because I had to use that to pay my rent and everything. Oh, and then on top of that, I have to move because the house that I'm renting in, I just found out that it's in foreclosure. Oh, my goodness. My landlord hasn't been, yeah, so. It's like, it's like, okay. I know, it is. I'm so sorry.

I'm more of a punk rocker, so I'm just like, oh, come out. I like you. Well, you know, there's always, I mean, what is you, you know what you need to do? You need to find one of those punk rock songs that you really love that's kind of got like the tough, the tough times lyrics, but there's some bright side on it. And that becomes your soundtrack, you know? Oh, it is. Social distortion, reach for the sky. There it is.

Social distortion, reach for the sky. And you know what? Like, I'm not being, you know, like, kumbaya here. But that's your soundtrack. You've been through a lot. Better days are ahead. Right? Absolutely.

You're going to get through this. Don't, do you follow the advice of your doctor? So let's take that stress off the table. And get yourself healthy and then get back to work and keep walking the baby steps out. And I'm telling you, better days are ahead. Thank you. And then document everything like a mad woman. I mean, there should be an income-based discount.

If you're on medical leave, you should qualify for a significant reduction on this thing or a full write-off. And on top of that, bring proof of income loss. Say, hey, listen, I made $400. Here's what I should have made. And this is going to remain this way until I'm fully healed. Yeah. And I think if this person is your best friend, if I'm your best friend at the office, I'm going to do everything I can to go, hey, your bill suddenly disappeared.

Yeah. Oh, I like that. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, fingers crossed. Yeah, I mean, they can pull some strings over there. A human being has to deny or approve these things at some point. It's one little keystroke. I see what you're doing.

George. Yeah, it's not illegal. It's not a little... George with a little espionage. This is why these people exist. I love it. And so just you need to utilize, you need to know this stuff better than they do, to where you go, no, I actually read the fine print, and here's what it says. You need to become an expert in health care, because there's a lot of incompetent people in health care. Oh, I know that. I work in health care. Perfect. So become the expert on your situation, and when you are more, when you have all of the opportunities, when you have all of the

options, all the information, you can win this thing. And we are rooting for you to get through the surgery to heal up, to get rid of these debts, get that emergency fund. You have a bigger why than most people. That's right. What is the prognosis on the other side of the surgery? Do you know? Not 100% sure yet. Okay. So, um, but yeah. Do you have a good sense of confidence that you're going to be able to get back to work relatively soon or is that completely up in the air as well. Oh, I told them, I go, I'm going back to work on May 1st. I'm like, I don't care. No stopping you. I'm like, I, oh, there isn't. I work two jobs. I work two jobs. I have tons of side hustles and I'm just like, no, like. Oh, Ella, listen. You know what? I love the advice

George gave you. And I hope they don't charge you rent this month if they're under foreclosure. I think that should give you a little freebie. What's the story there? I feel like I'm not even going to pay them and I'm just going to try to staves and just move and put my stuff in storage. And if I have to couch surf for a little while, it's okay. Good for you. They're the ones about to get sued and going through bankruptcy. So I think they're going to have their hands full. I wouldn't be worried about that.

Bigger fish to fry than you. And Ella, you inspired me just now. I want to tell you something. Like, I love your attitude, given everything you're dealing with right now. You're unstoppable. I love that you said, I know I am. And you're going to get back going. and boy, are we cheering you on?

We're in Club Ella. When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan. They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going. Money is just happening to them

instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our every dollar budget app. Every dollar not only helps you tell your money where to go, a budget. It also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start

building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you call the show. And it's right in your pocket. So don't keep living at normal. Go download the every dollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today. Hey, George, have you heard about Ask Ramsey? Heard about it. Huh? I use it daily. Do you really? I talk to it because nobody wants to talk to me, Ken. So I go to Ask Ramsey and it's very conversational. Yes, you do.

It wants to talk nerdy like I like to talk. What is Ask Ramsey? Some of you are wondering it is the AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And we're going to break down the most asked questions from this week. We had some questions around budgeting, college funds, investing. But the most asked question, George, was around paying off the mortgage. The main question is, should I? prioritize paying off my mortgage or investing for more long-term growth. So what do you think

asked Ramsey said, George? Well, I hope it said this. First, you got to be investing 15% of your gross household income into retirement. Anything beyond that is a baby step six items. So you can throw that money at the mortgage. But it's not a it's not a this or that. It's a yes and. Yes, you should be investing. Yes, you should pay off the mortgage. You don't need to do one or the other, but you should not stop retirement investing to rush the mortgage. That's the truth. The paid-for house gives you a piece in margin. Once the house is paid off, then you can start investing even more than that 15% and increase it to your heart's delight for your wealth goals. So ask Ramsey can help you determine how much extra to throw out your mortgage each month,

what your payoff date would be. It'll help you all the nerdy stuff, do the calculations for you. So go ask any of your financial questions today at ramsysolutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Nice. Let's go to Cassandra now in our backyard here, Nashville, Tennessee. Cassandra, how can we help? Hi, thank you for taking my call. You bet. What's going on? Well, I have $9,000 in debt for my car, and it's very manageable and it's in my monthly budget to take care of that. But I have more than enough money to pay it off right now. if I wanted to. My question is, if I get rid of that payment and it affects my credit score, I'm looking to put a down payment on the home in the future. Will someone lend me that

money for a home if my credit mix isn't good if I don't have multiple lines of credit? Got it. What other accounts do you have open right now as far as debt? I have a secured credit card and I kind of use it as my budget for gas. I never spend more than 30% on it. Okay, so the car is the only debt? Yes. How much do you have in savings? 22,500. That's all the money to your name. And I also have a retirement account that counts. Okay, but as far as liquid money, 22-5, and if you paid off, you. the car loan, where does that leave you with?

9,000 less than that, so... Okay, we're talking like 13 grand or so, is what you'll have left. Yes. Well, the good news is you're not going to have to worry about purchasing a home anytime soon because you're going to have to still save up an emergency fund, then save up the down payment. So this is a far away goal, right? Yes, it is. Okay.

And your credit score is not going to tank once you pay off your car. It might go down temporarily, but it's not going to go down. to where you're not going to get a great rate on a mortgage. Okay. Thank you. So I would not worry about that. Now, if you stop making payments or miss payments, those things will negatively affect your credit score, and it'll stay like that for a much longer period of time.

But just paying off a debt is not going to go. Wait, you're going from a $700 to a $6.50. Way to go, Cassandra. It's a good thing to pay off your debt. So you're basically saying, should I stay in debt on purpose so I can qualify for more debt at that point? Yes. And so truthfully, even if,

you cut up your credit card, and this is something I did, my credit score eventually disappeared. I became credit, you know, my credit score was indeterminable, and then I went through a process called manual underwriting. I submitted just a few more documents, a real human being, looks at the documents and says, yep, we can give a loan. It was that simple. So that's just to give you, put you at ease, that even if your credit score disappeared off the face of the earth, you still could qualify for a home loan. If you have a good down payment, you'll have no debt, so you'll be very strong candidate and your income strong. All of those are much bigger factors than just a credit score. Okay, yes, sir. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for the call. Great question. Yeah, really good.

Cameron is up in Phoenix, Arizona. Cameron, how can we help today? Hi, so I'm currently a student physical therapist about to get licensed in around late October. my biggest thing is I'm about $120,000 in debt by the time I get licensed and I'm actually making $80,000 to $85,000 out of school. And I have 10K in my savings. And I was just curious, you know, I have my $1,000, of course, that is my base foundation of savings. But what else do I just throw everything else towards the snowball method and kind of what's the way to go about things? When is your last payment for education? What was that?

When is your last payment due for education? Are you already there? No, no. And so it'll technically be, I believe, September of this year. Because my goal would be to avoid going into any more debt before graduation. And so we're trying to just stop the bleeding at this point. And so I would hang on to that money to use it for the following, semester for tuition, textbooks, et cetera.

So limit the damage. And then once you graduate and you have your income, now let's start using the baby steps, the debt snowball methods to start attacking these student loans from smallest to largest. Are they in separate loans, I imagine? Yes, yeah, all separate loans, some federal, some subsidize and subsidize stuff, yeah. Awesome. Leave it that way. Don't do any kind of debt consolidation lumping it into one giant loan. It's going to be so much easier to pay it off when you can attack the little one with a vengeance, free up that payment applied to the next one. That's the debt snowball. And I have good faith and confidence that you'll be able to pay off the 120K. Now, making 80, it's going to take a little while. But hopefully you can get your income up, maybe work overtime and really go hard at this thing for two or three years and knock it out fast. Yeah. And that is an absolute huge reason why you don't want to add any more to this. Because coming out of this thing, this is what I can't stand. And this is why I don't like the student loan program. For so many people, you know, they come out.

and they're excited. They've got the great job. And then it's just a mountain they have to climb. And they can. And we've seen and we've helped a lot of people do it. But it's just... Well, the scary part is, Ken, the financial aid. When I walked in the financial aid office and you get the package from FAFSA, you're like, wow, what a gift. They're giving me four federally subsidized loans. I thought that's basically free money. And it's basically just a slightly better way of getting punched in the face. There we go. It's true. It's true. It'll heal a little faster. Let's go to Jacob real quick here in Nashville. Jacob, how can we help?

Hey, I'm trying to determine, make sure I'm doing all the right things, to be able to retire as early as 50, very comfortably. How old are you now? I'm 29 right now. Okay, we've got a little ways to go. How much you got saved for retirement? So I was fortunate enough that my father, my grandparents, my great-grandparents, my great-grandparents. grandparents put together a uniform transfer to minor account when I was very young. I'm not entirely sure what the beginning balance was. I want to say it was close to $50,000. What is it now?

It is now up to $490,000. Whoa. And about 75,000 of that is my IRA in a Vanguard account. So $490 total is your sort of nest egg you've built so far? Yeah, well, that's just associated with Vanguard. So I also have about 38,000 in a 401k, about 12,000 in a 403. So what's the total nest on? Can we go to 550? We're just crushed for time, so I'm trying to get right to it. Yeah, sure.

550, how much will you contribute monthly going forward for the next 21 years? So my only contributions is maxing out the IRA. So about 600-something bucks a month. Well, I'll tell you this, at 50, you'll likely have about $5 million. Now, that's without accounting for inflation and buying power. But $5 million, you tell me, can you live off $5 million at $50 for the rest of your life? I think so. I think you'll be work optional.

And my guess is you actually go do something that really matters to you. If he has George Camel's budget, he'll be living like a king. Live in large. Listen up, folks. If you've got a complicated tax situation and you're putting off filing your return, it's time to talk with a Ramsey trusted tax pro. Not next week, not April 15th, right freaking now. Ramsey trusted tax pros know the tax code front to back

so they can do the heavy lifting to help you file on time and explain things to you with the heart of a teacher. But they can only do that if you get on their schedule before they book up. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash tax pro to find a full-time tax advisor who serves your area with excellence. That's ramsysolutions.com slash tax pro. The right insurance should act as a shield around you and your loved ones and your wallet. Our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage

by giving you a personalized action plan. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash checkup. That's ramsysolutions.com slash checkup and you can do a coverage checkup. And boy, does George love a coverage checkout. I like playing defense. I'm telling you. Especially with your wealth. I get it.

Chris is up in Los Angeles, California. Chris, how can we help today? Hey, guys. Thank you guys so much for taking my call. Such an honor. Well, we're honored to talk to you. What's going on? Hey, so real quick, I'm 28 years old,

and I'm currently on babysat too. I have $16,000 in credit card debt left. and I just got an opportunity from my parents to buy one of their properties that they had for about 20 years now with two tenants with two tenants that are in right now and the house is valued at about 700,000 but they're going to be selling it to me for 350,000 for what they bought it for years ago. I just I'm like not too sure what I should do. I don't know if I should purchase the house or just keep going, trying to clear my debt, or I'm kind of lost, to be honest with you. Do you want the fun answer or the real answer? The real answer, to be honest. Okay, the real answer is you have no business taking on that mortgage right now and being an investment property guru.

I mean, for a lot of reasons, I don't, whenever I hear the word, I have an opportunity and then involves going into a bunch of debt when you already have a bunch of debt, it tells me it's not an opportunity. It's actually a burden disguised as an opportunity. So that's my fear. Right. You take on this. It's such a good deal. Oh, my gosh. I mean, why not just inherit it from them later on down the road? Exactly. Yeah, that's what I kind of figured. Why are they trying to get out if this is such a great opportunity? Yeah. And you're right. You're right, George. I'm not too sure why, but it makes sense. It makes sense. It makes sense. And by the way, and George is right, the financial is a no-go.

But you know what else is on the other side of this, too? Besides being a bad financial decision, you're going to end up resenting them. Because once you start feeling the stress of all this, you're going to go, they talk me into this, and now it's going to affect your relationship with your parents. So this is a no-go financially and relationally. Absolutely. No, definitely. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, thanks for calling. I mean, I've heard it all. I mean, people have already been telling me, I don't know. If you don't take it on, it's going to be a stupid decision. Well, the question is, you've got to reframe it. The question is not, is this a good deal? The question is, can I actually handle this right now without it crushing me? Right.

And a good deal at the wrong time is a bad deal. Yeah. And so I would just say, you know what? I would have loved to, but I've got some financial goals right now. I'm not in a place to be buying investment property. Exactly. But I love you guys. Good luck with the sale.

Mama. Yeah. your instincts are right. Thanks for the call. Bridget is up next in Anchorage, Alaska. Bridget, how can we help? Hi. So my husband and I are in Baby Step 4, but we're kind of in a unique situation. So I have a normal 9 to 5 corporate job, and my husband owns his own fishing business that's seasonal. We're to the point that we can invest 15% of our income while I'm working, but we're also about to have our second child. And so I'm hoping I can, quit my job and be a stay-at-home mom. But if we did that, we wouldn't be able to afford to invest

15% of our income. So what should we do? Like, should I continue working? Because with his schedule, he's gone all summer for five to six months of the year. So child care gets really complicated. And then he's our child care in the winter. So we're kind of at a loss as to how How much do you make? So I make about 75. And what is he making from this business per year on average? So it varies. He's about five years into it, and it has slowly grown.

So I think his highest year was he made over $100,000 just off of his business. But then this last year, it was closer to like 45, 50. So he has some other income, some other like side jobs and things that he does. But those are, it's also seasonal. Well, the math of the situation is you can't afford to stay home if it means you can't build wealth for the future. And we have variable income in the business, which adds a whole other layer of stress to your family. So I want Ken to speak into how he can turn this thing from a variable part-time deal into more stable, full-time income. Yeah, I mean, well, I wish I had him on the phone. How well do you know about his business? Oh, I know lots. Okay, well, what do you think is the opportunity? Do you think that how would you describe it in what stage? Is it infant stage?

Are we toddler stage? Are we teenage? Like, just is it's growth. It's seasonal. So he's a hunting and fishing guide, right? So there's only that certain season that he can be doing that, especially in Alaska. And so he's kind of limited time-wise. So he can sort, like if he gets more guides and things like that,

he could potentially be selling more trips, which he's working on. And so like this year, he's going to be making a lot more, which is great. And like we already have, for our emergency fund, we did a full year. Because of his variable income, we wanted to make sure that we have enough set aside that we would be very comfortable. So like, I guess potentially he could work more in the winter time and just kind of take on some other. job. Has to.

But I'm thinking what businesses thrive in Alaska in the wintertime that are adjacent to what he's doing now. That's right. That would be my home. That would be ideal. But the reason I ask that is it, infancy stage is that he's the only guy right now. The business is all completely on his shoulders. He's the only guide.

Correct? So he has a couple others. It just depends on how big the trips are. But he doesn't have anybody else that's full time with him. So he hires a few different contractors for the summer. That's fun. because it's seasonal. So that's what I was getting at because that's the only way to expand at a seasonal business, right? Is he's got to reproduce himself. And so I'm guessing he's

close to teenage age, right? He's not an infant. He's already moved on to hire other people, so that's good. So that lets me know where our opportunity for growth is, and it's more trips, more guide. So he's got to work on that. And that takes a little, it takes a little bit of time to grow that. So I think what's enormous is, like what George said is, what's something he can do that's in that space. And I'm using the word space very generally here, but it's in that old hunting, fishing world.

Recreational. Yeah, well, just hunting and fishing and all that. If he's in that space and he can make good money, and it kind of just dovetails in some way, creates relationships in some way, or they're willing to go, we know we got you from this time and this time, and then when we get to the summertime, you're often doing your thing. You just got to increase your income. He just cannot afford to

just be seasonal right now. You guys can't. You need more money. So it's not a no. I would just make it a, it's a not now. And if we can prove that for two years in a row, this business has profited him. He took home over $100,000, boom. He's now replaced a household income in a bad year. That's right. And that tells me, we're going to be just fine. If you never work again, he can sustain this thing. So that's where I just want some proof. Because 45, if it's another 45 year and you stay home, that's going to be tight. Yeah, for sure. One other thought on this, Bridges, to take back to your hubs on this. I think he's got to treat the seasonal business like a bonus. You know? Yeah. In the corporate world, you know, corporations, they pay bonuses, right? Kind of like a

year-end bonus. And I think he's got to treat that seasonal job as that's my bonus. We're living off of what, you know, I'm doing in this other role, and then that's our big lump sum of money. And I think if we can begin to think that way, that's going to pay off for you guys, and then that's going to get you in a position where eventually, you know, you can do that. So just a little thought there, but I do think it's important to frame it that way, you know? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And that's where you get ahead big time. You know what I mean?

So we're living off of his regular job, the seasonal gig, until it's a full time, it can fully fund what it needs to. It is our big bonus job. So thanks for the call. That's really fun. You know, you and I should go on a hunting fishing trip in Alaska. You think I'd make it? I think you could make it. I don't know that my wife would allow me to.

I don't know that she'd think I'd come back alive. I think her wives would let us. And I think it would be just rich and funny just for social media alone to see you and I attempting to go on some Alaska type trip. If you just gave me the reel ready to go, I could probably do it. Yeah. Then help me reel the fish bag. What I think would happen is you and I would be fly fishing and you would accidentally snag my ear.

That's a real possibility. Yeah. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help any time with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something. explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com

and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com. Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 1923. The fear of the Lord leads to life. Then one rests content, untouched by trouble. Our quote of they from Scotty Pippen, a Gucci wallet, and a target wallet hold the same amount of money. A $10 million house and $100,000 house, host, host, host. the same loneliness. A Ford will also drive you as far as a Bentley. All right. Thanks, Scottie. Scottie. Dropping dimes over here, as the kids like to say. Do they say that still? I don't think anybody says that. I'm getting messages from the booth. I'm getting a Ben and saying, no, no one says that. Your kids are at home cringing right now going, Dad. Well, I'm afraid I've

said something I don't even tend to say. Do we know what dropping dimes is? I don't think it's a bad thing. I don't think it is. Yeah, you're not going to get in trouble. Okay. Kelly, the producer has never heard. A resident Gen Z said no. It's she's a millennial, George. I take it back. You're a millennial. She just, she plays very young and you know fun compared to me who is an old soul curmudgeon. Yeah, yeah by the way she does have a great hat on today. The master's hat. There we go. Fantastic. There she is everybody. Look at that. All you need is a pimento cheese sandwich in your hand. Let's go to Jim in Lansing, Michigan. Jim, how can we help?

Jim, there he is. So, um, yeah. So, uh, I just had a quick question as to how to talk to my dad about credit cards in our business. So, um, I started a business with my father, um, about a year ago. And I personally, I don't do debt. I don't do credit cards. I don't do any of that. It's all scary.

Now, he loves credit cards. He doesn't have a lot of debt, um, in, you know, his personal life. But he just loves credit cards. He has them all over the place. And I voiced when he wanted to get one for the business, I voiced my concern then, but I know better than to argue with my father. And we ended up getting a business credit card. And I just figured, you know, I would take initiative to make sure that nothing bad happens. Now, this past month, something bad did happen with that.

We tried to pay it off, and the bank marked it as fraudulent. And so then we got late fees and interest on that credit card, and that terrifies me. I want to get rid of this stupid thing, but I don't know how to have that discussion. Well, this is a generational money fight. He's been living this way for so long. You're not going to change his mind as the young whippersnapper. I know that. Are you guys 50-50 partners?

Every time that I talk to him, yes. Every time that I talk to him, though, about their credit cards, his excuses, you know, I've been doing this longer than you've been alive. I've never been charged interest. But now he has been, and I don't... Well, what he really said is, I don't respect your opinion in this business. That's right. And, which means he's not going to accept your opinion.

Yeah. So now you've got a real problem, don't you? Well, yeah. He's a great businessman, so I don't like the idea of that, but I just... Well, but are you long-term in this business? Has you already made the decision or is this just something early on? You're just kind of, I'll do the family business for a while until I figure out what I want to do with my life. What's your status?

No, this is long-term for me. Okay. How old is he? Like 50. Okay. So this is a long ways away from like you inheriting the business on your own. This could be another 25 years of this. And it's not going to be the last fight you guys have.

So just know that going into business with family can be a fun. one idea and a harsh reality. So the conversation is, dad, I respect how you built things. I want to build this as well. I want to feel like an equal partner. Can we try running this thing lean, debt-free, and see how it goes? And when and if we run into a situation where it's like, dang it, we need the credit card, I will concede and we'll have that conversation.

So give him a trial instead of a debate, and that way he'll put his defenses down. Does he like a challenge? Yeah, I can give that a shot. 90 days. Maybe. I don't know. Yeah. I don't mind George's approach.

He might be a stubborn horse. I don't know. He might be. You got nothing to lose with George's approach. I have a high sense here that it's not going to go the way you wanted to go, and he's not going to change. So that means you do too. Okay. And so I like George's approach, but you need to reconcile the fact that this is the

the business I want to be in. This is my long-term play. And I philosophically disagree with my dad on debt. And the truth is you guys did not align on values for this business before you started the partnership. You didn't set the ground rules or the boundaries and said, hey, one value I have is we're going to run this business completely debt-free because it lowers our risk, lowers our stress, and increases our chances this thing survives. That's really at the heart of why you're doing. loans or anything on the, yeah, we don't have any loans or anything on the business. It's just that credit card. And running the expenses to read it. But now we don't have any points because we're paying somebody else's point. Yeah. That's where those, that's where those late fees

will go. Man. So I just think you talk to dad, you keep chirping about it if you want to, always respectful, make the challenge that George gave you. I'm all for that. But I'm also a realist to know that if he just isn't going to change his mind, you aren't going to change it for him. And so I would reconcile that and go, I'm going to do things different when I'm in charge. Until then, I'm going to focus on what I can control or, you know, what I do agree with and just learn how to deal with that. It's just a tough situation. I don't want you to have this constant tension between your dad and you over this issue, because it seems like it's a healthy business otherwise. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

thing, man. It's tough. But hey, you're not going to leave the business over it, so then you've got to make peace with it and try to over time get them on your side. But again, it's an old dog. New tricks are hard. I know. Trust me. George is always trying to teach me new tricks. Aubrey's up next in Raleigh, North Carolina. You see what I did there? Well, I would just think I just helped Ken download like an airline app for the first time, and it felt like helping my grandpa. He's really straight, he had his readers on and everything. It was fantastic. That's what it reminded me of. It's true. Was that a Starbucks and Charlotte. That was fun. How can we help you today? Hey, how are y'all? Good. What's going on? So, look, I'm just curious. Me and my wife, we've been married now going on two years. We've completely gotten out of all of our car debt, you know, everything else like that.

So we're just left with the house now. And I'm just curious, she would like to go on, she likes to travel. She was a travel nurse when we got married, and she wants to. travel to Italy. And I'm wondering if we can kind of not necessarily put a pause on the house, but maybe not pay as much extra on the house to be able to take extra fun trips. How much is the trip going to be? Trips probably going to end up being around 4,000, if I had to guess. And you have no debt?

No debt besides the house, no, sir. So this is, you're just simply saying we would slow down on our aggressive pain off of the house, to be able to just sock $4,000 away fairly quickly to take a trip to Italy. Yes, sir. Yeah. Why is that a problem? I think it's great. You live your life, man.

I mean, baby steps four through six, I mean, really through seven, is you're taking the, you're taking the, you know, foot off the pedal here and go, we don't need to be gazelle intense anymore. We just need to be intentional. So as long as you're saving up, you're paying cash for this trip, I mean, it's not going to delay your mortgage payoff by a year. We're talking a couple months at most, right? I don't know how you're going to do a trip to Italy for 4,000 is what's the most impressive part. I was like, what are you doing? Are you staying in a box? Are you guys doing hostels? No, it's a family trip, so it's kind of split cost between everybody. Oh, that's even better. Like lodging is split, so that makes it little cheaper. Got it. I wish I knew some Italian right now. I would throw it out there as an encouragement to say, do this, live a little, you know? George, you know any Italian?

Bienvenito? That might be Spanish. I have no clue. I think I failed that class. Kelly, help us out. What is happening? She did duolingo, right? Chow. That's not a good... That's not what this needs, though. But thank you. She did help us. Well, chow. We'll see you in Italy, Aubrey. That works. Okay, great. Yeah.

Aubrey, I mean, listen, you don't need permission on this from anybody. You're not doing anything wrong by doing this. It's okay to slow down your self-imposed goal. The key is you're being intentional. You're going to pay it off early, aren't you? Yeah, yeah, we definitely want to. Is this a case? It's a little bit dawning still. Yeah. Still having 200,000 left on it. Okay, really quick question.

Is one of you, you or your wife, actually leaning towards not doing this? Going on the trip? Yeah. No, we're both. I would say we're both leaning forward towards it. I'm more on the terms of paying stuff off as quick as possible. Lean hard, man. Lean into that leaning tower of Pisa.

There it is. Full circle. You worked really hard on that. I think I like Kelly's chow better. But, hey, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.