The Ramsey Show - Wise Money Decisions Start With Clear Priorities

Episode Date: June 25, 2026

📈 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ❓ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Have a money question? Ask Ramsey is here to help.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruze answer your questions and discuss: “How can I afford a house when I'm budgeted down to the dollar?” “We're struggling to combine finances after being married for 19 years.” “Should we refinance our house to buy an investment property?” “How much should I budget for a wedding ring while paying off debt?” “Should I pay for online courses to try to get a pay raise?” Next Steps: 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET 📩 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email Dave On-Air With Your Questions on Debt and Finance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💵 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🏠 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get organized and prepared to buy or sell a home⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🎟️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get your ticket for Investing Essentials today! ⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🦸 ⁠⁠⁠For help with investing, get connected with a SmartVestor Pro⁠⁠⁠ Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ BetterHel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠p Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Boost Mobile⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to switch today! If you want your car to keep going and going, trust ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Christian Brothers Automotive⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Find a local shop and get an exclusive Ramsey discount of 10% (up to $250) off Learn more about⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Christian Healthcare Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get started today with⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Churchill Mortgage⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get 20% off when you join ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠DeleteMe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ FAIRWINDS Credit Union⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for an exclusive account bundle! Debt collectors hassling you? Take back control of your life at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Guardian Litigation Group⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Find top health insurance plans at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Health Trust Financial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Use code RAMSEY to save 20% at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Mama Bear Legal Forms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ NetSuite⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ today to learn more. Try ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quo⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for free, plus get 20% off your first six months. Quo: no missed calls, no missed customers. Sign up for your $1.00/month trial at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shopify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Get started with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YRefy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or call 844-2-RAMSEY Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Zander Insurance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today!  Explore more from Ramsey Network: 💸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Ramsey Show Highlights⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🧠 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Dr. John Delony Show⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🍸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smart Money Happy Hour⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💰 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠George Kamel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📈 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠EntreLeadership⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one, best-selling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour.

My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at AAA 825-5-225. Phillip is in Los Angeles. Hi, Phillip. How are you? Hello, I'm okay. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm having difficulty staying away from new debt, and I'm on baby step number two, and I'm having difficulty with budgeting.

Okay, Philip. Those would go together. That makes sense. Yeah. Is it any type of, like, business debt or all consumer debt in your household that you're trying to stay away from? Consumer. Okay. Any specific type that you find yourself. in a lot? Credit cards and medical. Medical and credit cards. What's going on with the medical? Oh, my, well, just having difficulty with the co-pays and doctors and dentists and things like that.

Okay, more just routine type medical things, or is there an ongoing sickness or concern? Routine. Routine. Okay. Okay. How old are you? 49. 49. How many kids you got? Zero. Okay. Are you single? I'm married. Okay. And what's your household income? I would guess $40, $45,000 a year. What do y'all do for a living? My wife is in clerical and I work in a grocery store as a courtesy clerk. Okay. It doesn't sound like you guys are peeking out on your career. careers. Correct. Yeah.

I'm not. My wife is okay. With hers, you mean? Yes. Okay. But $45,000 in Southern California. For two people working 40 hours, that's, you're not working 40 hours. Yeah, I'm not working 40 hours a week.

That's right. I'm a part-timer. Yeah. Why? Just the way that the company does it. No, why are you working, not working 40 hours doing something? I'm looking for a 40-hour-week job, and it's hard right now for me. Have you ever had one, a different type of career?

I've done other things with cashiering and with driving. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Is there something that you are facing or that you're trying to work your way through, that we're not understanding here, that's keeping a 49-year-old man from getting a job and holding it down? Yeah, a lot of emotional stuff, a lot of baggage, a lot of, yeah, I have a long history. Okay, and so that's also playing into the medical bills, right?

Right. Okay, all right, now that makes more sense. Okay. A little more mercy then. All right. And so here's the thing. There's a connecting line here between these things, and let me kind of walk through it. So the emotional healing produces a version of Philip that allows him to work more and earn more,

which allows him to have more money to budget. And so the actual cause of some of the things you called about goes all the way back to you completing your healing journey. Is that logical to you? Yes. Yeah. And so in other words, the stronger version of Philip we have that's got the strong. scars of the past healed enough to function at full capacity. And then that version of Philip works 60 hours, two jobs, three jobs. And that version of Philip brings home a lot more money

than $45,000 in Los Angeles. Yeah. And that then, that changes the whole budget transaction. It does. But I also have Dr. John Deloney in my head, Philip, where he is, he leans into, you have to have action as well. I'm all about you healing from, you know, what it is. But there's been a pattern. It sounds like most of your adult life where you haven't gone beyond what you're doing now. And I think I would, it's a both a hands. Yes.

I agree. But you have to. Action in the healing step. Yes. And the action of getting up at 6 a.m. going to a job, getting dressed, getting out the door, being somewhere with an accountability of being on time, working hard. hard and exhausting yourself till 5 p.m. 6 p.m. for dinner and you leave and go home. There's a confidence in a rhythm. That'll double your income. That is good for you, Philip, paired with being able to, you know, unpack what you need to unpack and understand yourself and not have high levels of anxiety, all of that. But I think it's a both and so if I were, I think it's,

I think it's part of your healing journey to go and be productive because I think that's going to give you some confidence. And when you get paychecks in that are double what it is now and you, and you can sustain you and your wife and you're not behind, and you're not so stressed and bogged down and feeling like, oh my gosh, I don't know how we're going to make the next paycheck. Some of that confidence of, hey, look,

we're literally bringing in tangible money, double what we were. And that, not that money brings you confidence, but you know what I'm saying? Like, it will give you a sense of pride and dignity. Yeah.

And I think it's really good for you, Philip. That's swaggerty walk. Versus sleeping, I mean, versus being home till 11, work and a half day. or, you know what I mean? Like, I think there's a level of that busyness and productivity that's going to be really good for you, Philip.

And you have to to stay current on your bills. You have to. There's a point that, yeah, there's not going to be much of a choice or you guys are going to get behind and live off credit cards for the rest of your life. And that's going to cause more stress and anxiety. So what I would do that will help push you into that is to go back all the way to the beginning of the call and answer your actual question was, okay, I'm struggling with budgeting and I'm struggling with debt. staying away from debt. And so the way you fix both of those things is the same way we're talking about this other issue with great intentionality and action.

So the intentionality is I'm going to ask you to pretend that someone is paying you $100,000 a year to manage this couple's budget in Los Angeles. And this couple's budget has a husband named Philip. And if you were paid to do that, you could do it. And you can sit down. I talk to you. You're an intelligent guy. You can sit down and do a budget.

And we'll hook you up with every dollar, the budgeting app, and you and your wife sit down. And you say, all right, we're going to tell every dollar before it gets here what to do. And then we're going to stick to that. That's intentionality. Then when you're doing that and, you know, there's a problem. Then you've got to say, well, the reason we're doing all of this is to get out of debt and stay out of debt. So we're not going to use debt to fix our problems anymore. Or our impulses or our whatever.

But the reason debt is popping up is you don't have a good, solid, detailed plan. Because if you got a good, solid, detailed plan, it's going to point out that you need more income. Absolutely. And you're going to go get the income. Well, and I would assume your rent in Los Angeles has got to be most of your paycheck. I mean, if you're bringing home four grand a month. Not even. I mean, yeah, I mean, two grand a month.

I mean, I don't know. I just, I think that there's, when you start to look at the math and see, you guys would probably be, I mean, you're probably already cutting back, but I would cut up the credit cards and not make it an option. And that will force the math to show you that the income really is the major problem here. Exactly. Exactly. So there's two sides to the equation, folks. The income side and the outgo side. You want to win, you've got to beat both of them.

You'll be increasing your income. Constantly thinking about long term and short term. What can I do to get the income up? and what can I do long term and short term to get the out go down? Sell the stupid car. Sell the boat. I don't know. What is it?

What's in your way? What's keeping you from winning? When I'm done talking to you, you're still going to be okay and I'm still going to be okay. But what's keeping you from winning? Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz. When it comes to life insurance, most people fall into one of two camps, the ones who make a plan to protect their family, and the ones who hope everything will just work.

out. But hope isn't a financial plan. When you get married or have kids, your money decisions aren't just about you anymore. Your income helps keep the lights on, pay the mortgage, and put food on the table. And if something happens to you, will your family have protection or uncertainty? Well, at Ramsey, we recommend term life insurance that 10 to 12 times your income with a 15 to 20 year term for the years that your kids are at home and your mortgage is still being paid off. That's why Winston and I have our term life coverage through Zander insurance. They're an independent broker who works for you shopping all the top companies to find the most competitive prices on coverage you need. Get instant quotes online in just minutes at Xander.com or call 800

356-4282 to get your family protected with term life insurance. That's Xander.com or 800356 4282. So just like we told the last guy, 100% of people who win at anything do it with intentionality. They do it on purpose. No one accidentally is married for 45 years. Sharon and are getting ready to hit 44. It's not accidental. No one accidentally raises great kids.

It's a lot of work and a lot of intentionality. no one accidentally stays in shape. Donuts accidentally happen, not staying in shape. Okay? And so, you know, you've got to do everything intentionally. And when you're doing it intentionally with money, it means you're working some kind of a system, some kind of a plan to build wealth.

Ours has been proven because we get you out of debt so that you don't have any payments. And now you've got money to build wealth with and be generous with and have fun with. And the best way to do that is with the budgeting app where you lay it all out. And our budgeting app, every dollar, leads you with personalized coaching and customized plans right through the Ramsey plan. So if you want to do this stuff, download this app for free, every dollar in the app store or Google Play. Jackson, Tampa. Hi, Jack. How are you?

I'm right. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I've got a couple of questions. questions. I am fresh out of school. I just graduated from the University of Tennessee last year. Govalls. Go balls. Well done. Go balls. What's your degree in? I got a degree in supply chain management. Whoa, good for you. Keller. You landed the first big job?

I did. Well, it's actually a construction job, so not exactly what I studied, but yeah. What do you make? I got a pretty solid job. I'm making $80,000 a year. Straight out of school. That's sweet. Good for you. Yes, sir. Thank you. So I guess the main question I have is my girlfriend is still in school and she is, she does not have an income right now. She's in school to get her D.P.T.

So doctorate of physical therapy. And then at which point she will be in debt at around 70, she'll be around 70 grand in debt after getting out of school. I currently am saving for a ring. I don't have any debts at the moment. Good. I just don't have a ton in my savings, and I'm worried that once that 70 grand hits, I mean, assuming things go well with my girlfriend,

which I fully do plan on, I plan on getting engaged and all that stuff. But I'm just kind of looking at that, and it's a little nerve-wracking to have that kind of over my head. Well, you're a supply chain guy. You're looking down the field. down the line and seeing what's coming. Way to go, man. Yes, sir.

Actually, like you were trained to do. Congratulations. So are you worried that you won't be able to make the payment? Or clear it up. I'm just not, I'm worried that I won't be able to clear it up. When does she graduate? I think she'll graduate in about a year, but she won't start having a job until I think she said October. Why? Not of next, or I think it just takes a little bit of time.

They've got to pass a couple certifications outside of school. through the summer she'll do that. Okay. So she's got to pass her boards. And then when she gets a job in October of next year, what will she be making? What's a starting salary for her? 60 to 80. Yeah, it's like around 80 to 90K.

Okay. Well, why don't you just live off your, assuming you guys get married in that time period, why don't you guys, yeah, live off your income, which will probably be up a little bit more of 80 and then throw her income at her debt and you guys are out in a year? Okay. But I'm just looking at my savings. I've currently got around 3 grand in a high-yield savings account, like 200, 2 grand. But you've been working a whole month.

Okay. And she's going to have an income, Jack. She'll have an income. Right. You know, if you save like a crazy man between now and the time you get married, when would you think you get married before October of next year? No, definitely. on probably the next two to three years.

Why? He's like, whoa, whoa. I'm saving for rain. I'm just thinking of marriages, rings. Oh, my gosh. That's a lot coming down the pike. And I'm sort of, she doesn't live with me, but we do hang out a lot. I live with my brother, but we kind of, I pay for most, pretty much everything, which I'm comfortable doing.

You don't need to be paying for anything of yours until you're married. And you need to be piling up cash, buy a ring in cash, have an emergency. fund in cash and then pile up cash if you're engaged to where I think by the time you get married and you probably need to get married sooner than you're thinking. But by the time you get married, you'll probably have enough to pay it off or almost pay it off. And then the two of you'll be making $200,000 between the two of you by then. My gosh, man, you'll be able to knock it out in no time. Okay. Well, that makes me feel a little bit better. And listen to, this is not your responsibility to pay on her debt until you are married.

Exactly. Do not pay a dime up. Yeah. So if you did your way and you guys got married in three years, though, then you shouldn't be stressed about it because she... Her problem. Yeah, that's her problem, not yours at that point. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. But if you're getting married, you know, she passes her boards. She gets a job in October. You get married in October. You might not have 70 by then stored up. But you might. You really might. That's 18 months from now.

You're making 80. 90K and you don't have any expenses. So what the flipper you're going to do with all that money? Well, it's 70,000. He's making 80. He's making 18 months. Yeah. So, I mean, he's going to probably save for the wedding, safe for a ring.

Yeah, there's some stuff. But all that to say, you guys together once you were married. Yes, you'll be fine. I appreciate the caution and a little bit of that unease because if, because if I am Jack and I'm like, okay, I'm debt-free, I'm now going above my name. net worth and saving, and then I'm going to have this massive debt entering my life once I get married, that can feel weighty for sure. But that's just so emotional. It's not logical. When you look at both of the numbers of what you guys are making, you'll be fine. And, you know, I'm bragging on you,

Jack, about getting your degree in supply chain. Your decision-making paradigm that you're taught, your method of thinking that you're taught in order to get that degree can work against. you as you're planning this marriage and you can you'll get paralysis of the analysis and go we'll get married eight years no you need to you need to just old man to young man get married if she's the one yes yeah if this is if you're going to get engaged don't we don't need 73 month engagements good lord all because you overanalyze stuff so don't analyze it get done get it done man and you know you're going to be okay both of you got great careers both of your neither one of stupid degrees in left-handed puppetry or something.

You both got the ability to step out of school into 80 grand. Nope. I mean, not many degrees do that. So pretty strong. Pretty strong. You guys are going to be fine. And don't use your training and overanalyze getting married. Just do it.

Jeff is in Raleigh. Hey, Jeff, what's up? Hey, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. A long-time listener. Thanks. First time I'm calling. Mm-hmm.

Um, so I have essentially completed baby steps one, two, and three. I got rid of the stupid truck, $60,000 truck, $1,200 a month payment that's gone and out of the window. How painful was that? Oh, it still hurts. What kind of truck was it? A 3,500 silverado. Sweet.

I pulled a trailer all over the country. Oh, man. That was hard to sell. That's a great truck. good for you. You manned up did the right thing. You're acting like a grown-up. Way to go. If I could have built one, I'd have built that one. But it was the right thing to do. Yep. According to you. And it seems to be... It is the right thing, too. But I hate... I'm with you. I hate it.

How can we help, Jeff? So I'm 29. I married two kids. We have essentially eliminated our debt to this point outside of our home. and a he lock that we took out on the home to help eliminate that debt. We had almost $80,000 in credit card debt that the HELOC paid off, which took, you know, the interest down to 6% with the HELOC over 20 years versus, you know, $3,000 a month in credit card bills that we were paying. Well, you're not in Section 3 then. You didn't eliminate the debt.

You moved it. So, yeah, so that was kind of my question is, Should my next step be pay off the helot? Yes. Okay. Yes. You didn't get out of debt yet. You just moved your debt.

And you can't hide from it. It's still there. So you need drawback and punch that thing in the nose and finish it up. When I started, I had great ideas and I knew how to serve people, but I didn't have systems in place yet. At that time, I saw books out of the trunk of my car. It was a lot harder to start a business back then. Shopify makes it easier. Shopify is the business platform.

empowering millions of businesses and about 10% of all e-commerce in the United States. If you've got a product or even just an idea, Shopify makes it simple to get moving. You can build a storefront, write product descriptions, and even improve your product photos all in one place. You don't need 10 different systems duct taped together. Shopify handles everything you need to make sales from payments to marketing and analytics. Plus, that purple shop pay button is one of the best converting checkouts on the planet for fewer abandoned carts. And if you get stuck, Shopify offers 24-7 support.

So if you've been sitting on the sidelines, it's time to turn those ideas into... Sign up for your $1 per month trial at Shopify.com slash Ramsey. That's Shopify.com slash Ramsey. at shopify.com slash Ramsey. Our question of the day is brought to you by Y-R-R-FI. if missed private student loan payments are keeping you from making progress towards your goals, Y-R-R-E-F-I might be able to help explore refinancing with a lower fixed rate and a payment you can manage.

Visit Y-R-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Lewis in Connecticut. How should interest from high-yield savings accounts be handled? I've so far ignored the accumulating interest because of baby steps six and seven still feel very surreal. Should I be entering the interest as income on the every dollar app to include it into paying more on the house giving and investing? Or should I leave it in savings and let it continue to grow? I probably, it's funny.

we actually have our interests as income on the every dollar app on our high-yield savings just to be like, hey, we're making this. You don't have a mortgage. It's available. Do it? No, but I'm just saying, in general, if you have a lot of money in savings, that high yield, it's wild what it can produce year after year. So it is a real thing that you could look up up.

If you're on baby step six, you should not have a lot of money in savings. It should be going on. You should have your emergency fund. I know. But I just felt very. amount of high yield savings that that is producing should be minimal. And so what that tells me is you've got a whole big chunk of money sitting in high yield savings.

You should have thrown at the mortgage. That's what I think is going on, Lewis. Otherwise, there wouldn't be enough money to sit at. Or they could be saving for something else. Yeah. I mean, three percent on 30,000 bucks is $900 a year. That's not enough to ask this question over. Okay.

You would throw that. Yeah. But we've got more in there. that up and throw it at the mortgage. It's a no-brainer. But you got a bunch of money in there. You've been saving money over there and you've not applied your, you've got all this high-yield savings instead of putting on your mortgage. You need to take your dead-gum mortgage and get rid of it. Unless they are saving for something specific that they're going to use that money for. Again, it shouldn't be $200,000 worth of something. No. No. I mean, it should be the amount you should

have me, you're saving for Christmas or saving for replacing a car or something like that, a vacation. Okay, fair. Okay, yes. Shouldn't be that much money. I know. But when he said that, I was like, oh, my gosh. That's what you do. But you have a lot in high-yield savings because you all are doing other things with that.

Yes. And you don't have a mortgage. Yeah. Yeah. So do I. But yeah, but in that case, you would just take that interest and do exactly what you said and add it to income. Sure. Sure.

Andrew's in Little Rock. Hi, Andrew. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah.

Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a long time listener and we are fine. We are very sick and tired of being sick and tired and we are trying to figure out how to best go about, you know, getting out of death. We currently have two junk cars that we are driving. Good. We both have a lot of issues, however, and we're trying to figure out if we should fix them or if we should buy another one or in what would be a fair, safe amount to put towards them.

How much other repairs costing you guys? Well, right now they are asking me about $3,000 to fix the suspension and AC problems we're having in batteries. What is the car worth? It's worth $3,000. Well, no, you don't spend three grand on a $3,000 car. That's a net zero. So you don't fix the suspension, and the suspension is the big number there. All you want to do is fix the AC, and you've got to put a battery in it, right?

Yeah. Yeah, don't fix the suspension on a $3,000 car. It's gone. Okay. I mean, if the suspension has completely gone out to where the car is sitting on its belly on the road, which didn't happen, this is just a mechanic that looked and said, oh, your suspension's loose. Well, so what? Guess what? It's a trashy car. Of course, the suspension is loose. It's worn out. As long as the car will drive, will it drive?

It does drive. Good. It's just loosey-goosey, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it runs fine for the most quiet. It does make a lot of squeakies down. Here's what. And we just consider about safety. Yeah, I was driving a car that's probably worth $400 after I went broke. The main color of it was Bondo. okay and it had 418,000 actual miles on it it was an absolute piece of crap and I drove that car for what felt like 10 years one three month period and during that three months all I thought about was how bad I hate this car and I spent all my waking hours working to put money together to move up a little bit in car and pay cash and then move up a little bit of car and pay cash and that's why today when someone gripes about Dave Ramsey bought a nice car. Well, kiss my butt. I know what it feels like to have been there and I'm not going to drive that anymore. I don't have to. I work to my way out of that hole.

So what I want you do is get really, really mad about being here and don't call me back in four years and say, I listen to you all the time. I'm driving junk cars. You need to go get out of that junk car by getting this mess cleaned up in your finances and work your butt off. Get mad about driving something that and realistically, Andrew, it may only last you guys another four to five. months. Yeah. And then if it's save on the side, yes. Throw it away and buy another $3,000 car. But don't spend $3,000 on $3,000 car.

Yeah. Yeah. Those are throwaway cars. And let me tell you guys, if you're at that level, okay, this car that I'm talking about was loaned to me. It wasn't even my car, which is even worse. And like the cops are following me around because they're like, what are you doing driving this car and this into town?

You know, and it's like, are you here to rob something? You know, and so. I'm looking at what. I was being profiled. based on my car. Bondo is. You don't know what Bondo is? I don't think so.

Bondo is the filler you put in when you have a car wreck. Used to. They don't do it anymore. Oh, or it's, oh, okay. It's showing on hardwoods. Well, yeah, it's a filler. Okay, like if you had a dent, you would fill the dint up. I got the joke now.

Yeah. Okay. So the predominant color was dint. Was dint filler. Okay. That makes sense. I always pictured like a red door and a, oh, thank you, Google image. Yeah, there we go.

Well done. All right. Yeah, you sand that stuff in. Oh, I see. You fill it in and then you paint over it. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, lesson learned. All right.

So here's the thing, though. Guys, if you are in that market for a short period of time, it should be for a short period of time because you're so pissed off that you're willing to do anything to never drive like that again. I'm going to drive like no one else so that I never have to drive like no one else again. I'm going to pay a price to get out of this mess. And part of it is I'm going to drive a car that we have to give it a name. because it's pitiful. Old Blue, Big Bessie, whatever it is, right? And you have to have a little yacht horn going,

so go, if you want to buy one of those, here's where you get them. Garage sales. This is a $1,000, $2,000 car. Facebook Marketplace. And this is Facebook Marketplace, too. This is a dog, ugly car. No car dealer would even put this on their lot.

It's ancient, but it has not many miles and has a lot of life left in it, but you couldn't tell it cosmetically. That's what you're looking for when you're buying a two or three thousand, four thousand dollar car. It's zero sex appeal and you will get no dates if you're single based on your car. This is what you're looking for for short period of time. And you go bananas on that because a car is the thing that kills your finances. And I love cars. I've got nice cars now. but they kill your finances.

And if this is going on year after year after year after year, I'm not saying drive that kind of car for three years. I'm saying to it for three months, five months, eight months, whatever. And we're just going absolutely crazy. Be sure you take pictures of it and you can put them, you know, you can, later on you can show them to your grandchildren or your great-grandchildren and say, back in Alt-26, we drove this car. and that's why you ain't poor no more kid you can do the grandpa thing right you know we changed

our family tree back in all 26 you know and because that that's the stuff you're doing right now ander I'm proud of you now now but you're going to have to suck it up and knock it in the face you got to get after it you got to get pissed off I'm not living like this I've never been poor I've only been broke poor as a state of mind broke as I'm passing three Health insurance is confusing on purpose. You call one company, get transferred three times, sit on hold for 45 minutes, and end up more confused than when you started. That's why I recommend Health Trust Financial. They're health insurance advisors who actually get to know your situation and help you find the right coverage for your life and your budget.

Healthcare needs change as your life changes. Maybe it's a job change, the birth of a child, a new diagnosis, or you're just trying to have more margin at the end of the month. No matter your situation, Health Trust Financial shops multiple top-rated insurance carriers and helps you understand what you're actually buying. I've trusted Health Trust Financial for over 20 years because they help Ramsey fans make smart health care decisions. Go to health trustfinancial.com today and talk to a real person without pressure or confusion. That's health trustfinancial.com. Justin's in Chicago. Hey, Justin, what's up in your world?

Hi, Dave. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. How can we help? Okay, I think this is like a really good question for you and your daughter. How should you set up pay in a family business? That is my basic question. like market value.

You pay. No, like, I can, like, go into it. So I make $120,000 a year working for my dad. And I'm asked for a raise. And he just acts like I'm capped out. And there's, like, no other way to advance in a family business. And I'm wondering if you should be working towards shares or... Wait, you feel that way or that was told to you?

I feel that way. Like, I haven't had a raise in 10 years. And my dad says I'm capped out. that's as much as we can pay for your job. Okay. So the answer to your question overall is what Rachel said, and that is that what you should be paid in a family business is what the job pays.

And so if the job you're in is capped out, that's fine. But if you weren't there and your dad had to hire someone else to do that job, what would he have to pay in the market? probably now about 120,000 and what do you make about 120,000 okay then why would you make more than he would have to pay to replace you well that's kind of my question that like it's a generational family bit business and that's not how my grandpa did it he paid his kids way more so they could save and buy buy more locations it's a very large business yeah so I'm just well so what I would do in that case is not to pay you more for your job but I

would give you some percentage of profits as a family member and treat you like an owner. Okay. Whether you've got percentage of actual ownership or whether you got paid as an owner. So what you should do in this situation or in this thing is to say, all right, let me ask you this. If you went and got a job doing what you do somewhere else, what could you get paid? For the industry, it's got a little bigger. About after a couple years, probably about what I'm at right now, about 120. But I've been working for my dad 20 years.

It doesn't matter. How long you've been working there? What matters is what the job is worth. And I think we clearly have assumed established in this conversation. This job's worth what you're being paid. You're not being underpaid. Correct. Okay.

And you're not being overpaid. Now, so then we separate the being paid for the job with being an owner. So you've got employee and you've got owner and you can wear both hats, but you just don't confuse them and convoluted them. And so if your dad wanted to be like your granddad and move some dollars your way out as an ownership position, even if it wasn't an actual stock, but instead, I'm going to give you some percentage like Grandpa used to so you could buy. What is the profit of the company each year, net profit? I'm not profit about $8 to $10 million. Okay. Do you have other siblings in the business?

I do not, but I have cousins in the business. So that's where my dad has five business partners. And are the cousins paid just for their jobs as well? They're paid just for their jobs, but they're paid just as much as me. Like, it doesn't make any sense how they set up the pay structure. Okay. That's kind of, so I guess my Dave's right. Like, I can separate the job.

I know I'm not overpaid or underpaid. I know I'm getting what I gift my job. But my question more is like my dad had told me at one point, you know, give me $100,000 and I'll sell you my shares of this and I had the money to do it. Then he reneged on that and then each other. That's a different discussion. Wait until I'm dead or I just don't know how most families do it. Most families do it, but they don't reneg.

Yeah. But should a dad be willing to sell the share? Should be something gifted? I mean, for that ownership. Either one's okay. There's not an ethical construct on that. lots of the small business owners we work with sell their shares to the next generation. That's not unusual at all.

Some of them allow them to participate in profits to buy out the percentages over time quickly. Some of them gift them and just gift them. And so it's not a thing. So, you know, but there's not a, you know, your dad's not, now, the only thing he's done that I've heard so far in this whole conversation that's wrong. is reneging. Yeah. And so when was that? That was maybe about two years ago, and his reasoning was he wouldn't be able to be the president

to the corporation because he had less shares than some of his brothers and some attorney advice. I don't know. So would you be some of his shares or all of his shares when that was the deal? No, just a small port, like a $100,000, like maybe like a 1% stake of his shares just for me. You know, like, just to give your kid to have some, like, he just doesn't want to give me something, which I understand. You know, he wants to. So how many brothers are in the deal?

He has three brothers and two cousins in the deal, so. Okay. It's a lot. And you've got cousins in the deal also. Yeah, and we're all kind of trying to figure out how to get away. It's like my grandpa set up more simply because he was one person and, you know, put a cap on all the stores to get a rent check and then gave like a 10% profit sharing. So my dad was making way more than a job entailed. And then my great-grandpa actually just sold the business to his sons and allowed them to pay him with the profits over the years from the business.

So there's a bunch of different ways. And I don't. Well, here's what I think should happen for the good of the business and all the people that we're talking about, brothers and cousins and everything else. You guys do not, your dad and his generation does not have a plan. Correct. And that is going to kill y'all. It's going to run off all the family members that are talented because they're going to go do something else with their life. And it's also, you know, they're holding on so tightly.

Oh, God, I won't be the president. And there's no succession planning. There's no generational agreement on what we're going to do. There may not even be good partnership agreements between him and his brothers. I don't know. Right. But if they want to save this business generationally, they need to sit down starting next week and put together, A, a partnership agreement that they all agree to, and then B, it needs to include a succession plan of what to do with you and your generation and how to make the transition in ownership and how to make the transitions in profits. So an example would be with what you've told me about this that would be healthy from a mental health and a relational health standpoint.

I don't know if your bunch can pull it off. But a good thing would be that you guys sit down and the brothers come up with an operating agreement that says your dad is the president until such time, regardless of his ownership position. And that allows him then to begin to transfer some of the ownership position without losing the president. Because eventually he won't have it. Yeah. Yeah. And because he can't, if he can't do good succession planning, because he has to hold on to the moment because they're at such conflict, then you guys are going to die.

The business is not going to make it. You guys are going to fight with each other and the enemy is within. The enemy is in the building. It's no longer competition. It's no longer trying to serve the marketplace. You guys are all just scrambling for all the crumbs inside the building. that is not healthy. It's going to blow up relationships and it's going to end the business.

We see it all the time. We coach family businesses that do stupid butt stuff like this all the time. And so you guys have got to, your dad has to sit down if he wants to save it. And if he wants to save the relationship with his kids and his brothers, they need to sit down and develop an operating agreement for today that includes him continuing to be president, in my opinion, based on what you told me, for X period of time and begin to transfer shares into the other generation, and that generation also has an operating agreement as to how this thing's run after succession. It could be that you split the business up, and each

of you take your store and go on your way like your grandpa used to do, and that might be the healthiest thing of all. But you guys not having a plan and, you know, and then reneging on stuff to stay president is a good way to screw up the whole thing. And staying so consistent for 10 years of your income and not moving one inch is deflating, right? So he either was overpaid 10 years ago. Yeah. And it is what it is. But there's no movement in that. There's no, I don't know, there's not, um, and not that you have to move up outside of market value. I'm not saying that, but to not have a raise for 10 years. Well, that something was wrong then. Yeah. They either started too high or something's weird about this position or something. Yeah.

But again, that can be solved for sure by just saying, we're going to leave that income there because it's market value, but we're going to add some percentages of ownership over here and let you share in the profits and all of a sudden he gets a raise. Yep. Here's what nobody warns you about. You're behind on payments. You signed up with some debt settlement company. You're making your monthly payments to them. And then one morning, a process server knocks on your door. Surprise, you just got sued by a creditor. And that company you trusted? Not a law firm. They're not built to represent you if things escalate. And now you're scrambling to

figure out what to do next. And that's why I tell people about Guardian litigation group. Guardian litigation is not a call center. They're actual attorneys at a law firm. And from day one, you're assigned a real attorney who can represent you if a creditor takes you to court. No scrambling when things go sideways, just real legal protection built in from the start. And look, the best way out of debt is still the budget, the plan, the baby steps. But if you're already in default and legal threats are coming your way, Guardian has your back. Their attorneys have helped over 55,000 people settle more than $600 million in debt. So get real legal help at guardianlit.com slash Ramsey.

That's guardian-l-I-T-com slash Ramsey. Attorney advertising. Results may vary and no specific outcomes guaranteed. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Rachel Cruz is my co-host today. We're going to take an hour and do something that we haven't done in a long time. We're going to do a theme hour. And we're going to talk about real estate.

And to do that, I brought in one of my guys. good friends for many, many years. One of the top real estate mines and real estate coaches in America, Brian Bafini, flew in from his home in California to hang out with us. We've been hanging out for a couple days, having all kinds of discussions. We get to do all kinds of fun stuff together. But we thought, hey, we better get him here on the air while he's here and we better mine this mind.

He knows more about this real estate stuff than anybody moving around out there and have a really good discussion. Welcome, my friend. It is always a pleasure. and we've had a great week and I'm looking forward to it today. If you've been listening to show for a while, you've heard Brian on here a couple of different times. We're promoting his book The Immigrant Advantage, which is a bestseller years ago when that came out, three years ago? Maybe five.

Maybe five. Yeah, time gets away fast. And it's not going to be southern accents this hour either. No, no. I love listening to you. It's a southern Ireland. Just like the Irish accent. It's right.

We're big into real estate in Ireland, you know what I mean? The potato famine and all that good stuff. All right, let's get to this. The real estate market is a problem. We've talked about it a lot here on the air that the shortage of inventory and the weird blip on the radar card called COVID drove prices up unbelievably. And they've slowed down considerably. But still, we've seen a phenomenon that we've never seen before in that we're currently at the oldest. median age for a first-time home buyer, right?

Yep, yeah. 40 years of age. So median half above and half below. How old were you when you bought your first house? 22. Yeah. We drove by one of your original houses last night. That was a flipper I was doing.

Last night we're going to dinner. We drove by one of those rehabs. Oh, that's good. That's good. I was 23. Yeah. So, Brian, this is the pain point. I feel like we hear so much.

I mean, housing and buying a home is a financial goal for majority of people. as it should be. But it's just they're feeling this tension and this point. And it starts to feel hopeless, right? And we were talking about social media. Yeah, we were talking about social media earlier. But I get in that algorithm and you just see people. And it's some complaining, which I'm like, listen, I get it.

It is hard. But then also it starts to feel as people start throwing facts and figures, which is why I love that you're on because you can maybe combat some of that or affirm some of it. But it just feels like today more than ever than any time in the home buying process, it's harder with just the price of homes income and all of that. What would you say to someone that just... Well, yes, the answer is correct. But if you've talked to, you know, people from the 60s and they bought a house for eight grand, they thought their arms and legs were going to fall off and they ate spaghetti for three years. You know, everybody feels that way. Yeah. Everybody also does, oh, you see that property over there? I could have bought that in 1979 for $8 in a packet of peanuts.

And now it's worth 20 million, but I didn't buy it. So, you know, that's never going to change in real estate. What we have is what I call an anaconda's meal. Okay. You know the anaconda? Yeah. It eats like a sheep. Only from the Jennifer Lopez movie.

And it takes eight months to digest it. And that's kind of where we are with real estate right. That COVID, free money, you know, 2% loans. Everything jumped up. COVID people were living in small houses. Remember, there was the tiny house movement. Remember that day? Well, when we were all living together for 10 months locked up, nobody wanted a tiny house. I don't want to see you. I want an office. I want a school. Yeah. I want a gym. So now people got bigger houses, lower interest rates. And you had this massive jump in the market. When the Fed adjusted the rates because they overcooked it, it was the fastest rise in rates in 120 years since the Federal Reserve existed. They intentionally stall the market, like stall in an airplane. So they intentionally put the brakes on. And the brakes have kind of been on ever since. Yeah.

So to backtrack a little bit, 10 years ago, the median age of a first time home buyer was what? 30 years old. And so in 10 years, it went from 30 to 40. Yeah. And this is the highest median age since we've kept records. Since we kept records, go back to 1908. The most in a decade was two years. It changed.

That was the Great Depression. And then the next great change was, during the war, and then we had the baby boomers and, you know, America exploded in the housing after that. Yes. And so this is, so that's, it is a shock. It is a shock to the system. And what I do here is, so people don't feel crazy.

If people are feeling this, they're not crazy. No. It is, there's a reality to it. But they're losing hope, and that's the dangerous thing. You can't lose hope. That's right. You've got to dig in. We're not going to get in the loss of hope business or the sanctioning of a victim,

but there's also the reality of the numbers. Yeah. And so based on that reality, then you've got a solution. We have to come up with a solution. We'll work on that throughout this time we've got together. I want to do that. And so rates are pretty much just stayed the same for, what, three years? Yeah, I mean, look, we were heading on a nice path,

and I thought we'd be between 5-8 to 6-2 this year, and then we got a ran, you got oil, you got all that stuff, which is another blip in the screen. But I think what's going to happen is we might even have a slight rate hike before the end of the year. Eventually, rates are going to settle around six. Six percent is a healthy interest rate. It's not a bad thing. You know, we remember a lot in the business.

It was higher. I was going to say, well, then that's perspective too, right? Because you have, you know, my age group that we don't remember the Carter years, right? Or the, you know, what I mean? Like when they all were selling houses? 1989, I was in a real estate office and we had a 10% party. We were stirring the porridge. We were dancing it up.

Pizza was in. The music was playing because the rates had come down to 10%. So, yeah, historically the rates were ridiculously low. I mean, 2% and 3% mortgages are artificially governmentally created. So for a government to loan a bank money at 0% is not sustainable, especially when the government's paying 5% to the people who loaned it the money. Yes. So it's artificial.

And I saw this on one of these slides that you gave us, which I thought, was fascinating is that, yeah, the median age for the first-time home buyer is 40. But 25% of single women make up that demographic of first-time home buyers and only 10% of single men. So women are outpacing men. Yeah, two and a half to one. And buying homes. All the single ladies, all the single ladies, right? Yeah. Yes. So men are feeling the need to hit the home run is what I could see. Okay. And so they're like, I don't feel like, so this is a 25 to 35 year old. man. Yep, 2530. Well, we know that exact demographic because online gambling has gone from $5 billion a year to $150 billion a year in three years. Thank you, draft kings. Thank you,

draft kings. You want to know why men aren't buying houses? Yeah, draft kings. Yeah. And remember, you couldn't have a sports team in Vegas and you couldn't have an advertiser. And now because they all own a piece of the action, young men are buying the Lakers and the Celtics and the Sooners because they don't think, you know, saving 300 bucks a month's not going to do me anything. Let me put it all on the Lakers. And so they're hoping for the big win. And with the big win, they're hoping. The number one question of the online gambling bros is what would you do with the monies if you had a huge thing?

They'd set up by house. So it's that lack of hope. And you look, what happens is when you have a lack of hope. As soon as I get desperate, I get stupid. Yeah. And you're not swinging. You're not swinging to hit singles and doubles. you're swinging for the fence, and every time you swing for the fence, you strike out.

And that's what brought the crypto bros up to. They're looking for a deadgum easy money. Well, the ladies are saving and making wise decisions. Well, the women are just going, we're just going to put some money away. Yeah. The house is a bigger deal. Wow. Well, I can't wait to keep talking about this because there is a plan and a great way for people to be homeowners.

And so, yeah, and you're part of that. I wouldn't be here without us. It's great. Brian Bafini is with us. We're talking real estate this hour, what you guys all want to talk about, and we're going to help you with it. We're also going to talk about the realities of what you're doing out there. Hey guys, George Camel here.

Two things you should know about me. I love a good movie, and I hate overpaying for things. An angel just checked both boxes. They've got a new movie called Young Washington, the story of George Washington's early life as a soldier before he became a founding father. And whether you're a history buff or not, this was a gripping, entertaining thrill ride of a prequel

to the guy on the dollar bill. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. Now, here's where the math gets fun. A premium Angel Guild membership is normally 20 bucks a month. But as a Ramsey fan, you get 25% off. So it's just 15 bucks a month. And that membership gets you two tickets to Young Washington in theaters, along with tickets to future Angel theatrical releases

and access to their family-friendly streaming library. Two free movie tickets every month. I ran the numbers. The membership basically pays for itself before you even touch the popcorn. So get the deal and go see Young Washington in theaters this 4th of July to celebrate America's 250th birthday. Sign up at angel.com slash Ramsey. That's angel.com slash Ramsey.

We're talking real estate with Brian Bafini, one of the leading experts in real estate, one of America's greatest real estate coaches. He coaches more real estate agents, high-performing real estate agents, than anyone else in America. So he's really got his finger on the pulse of what's going on in the real estate world.

He and I've been talking offline about this because we've been friends for years. And the, the, the, the, the, One of the conclusions I've come to, Brian, is that there's not a, that the people who are feeling hopeless and are just screaming and throwing a fit on social media and yelling at boomers, you bought your house for a basket of strawberries thing, are really too simplistic at how they're looking at this. Because instead of looking for a solution, they're just laying in the floor foaming at the mouth and having a fit. Because there's a lot of different problems. So let's go back to one thing, and then I want to take this down a couple of that ways. One thing you were talking about was the number of houses sold this year.

Yeah. Four million it'll be this year. It was like 4.1 last year. Right. And the last time we got about a million houses on the market list. On the market, yeah. And that's been that way for about four years. Yeah, almost four.

And the last time we had that few homes sold was in 1995 when there were 80 million less people living in the country. So you have big population increase. All economic supply and demand. So you have 80 million more people, which is why prices are continuing to go up and will continue to go up. If you are watching YouTube, if you're watching the doom scrollers, market crash, this has fallen into the thing. It is not true. It is clickbait. It's unfortunate. That's how people make a living. The prices are going up because there's a inventory shortage. Supply and demand. Supply and demand. You've got 100 million more people chasing the same number of sales. Yep.

And so we've got a supply problem. We continue to have a supply problem. And that is due to several things. So there's a bill sitting on the president's desk for him to sign. He just pushed it aside a few minutes ago as we're recording this or broadcasting this. So I don't know when you folks are going to be listening to this, but something else may have happened by them. But for right now, he pushed it to the side of it. He's not signing it until he gets some other political favors on some other stuff he's working on.

But that bill was called the Road Act, and it was, it had good intention. You and I agree it's full of a bunch of pork and crap, but Congress can screw up Christmas. But the idea is, the idea was that they're going to limit corporate hedge fund buyers and Chinese foreign nationals and so forth from buying thousands of single family homes and starving that supply we're talking about. Yeah. Allegedly. They're going to limit the idea of limiting it is a good idea. It was your idea. It was. I proposed it to the secretary of housing. And then I said it on the air and I said President Trump, if you're listening. And apparently he was or somebody was because they put the bill out like 60 days later in January. They got the bill passed. But by the time they got it through Congress, they screwed it up, putting all this crap in it. Yeah. And they, you know, what was initially proposed was a great bill. Limited to 350 homes, single family homes that a corporation can own because they're, you know, stealing them from first-time home buyers. 100%. So her first-time buyers, and by the way, they get tax advantages. So a giant, you know, multi-billion dollar company gets all of these tax advantages that a

single family that's, you know, eating spaghetti, saving their money can't. And so that was the intent. Now it's gotten politicized and all of a sudden it's like, well, we're concerned about access to capital and things like that. You know, said Black Rock. Yeah, yes, because I also got a giant contribution to my campaign, right? Black Rock. Right. So they gave 10 million and Mary can give 10 bucks.

So look, it is the deal. It's brutal. One thing we could do is if you really did do it, and this bill really doesn't. If you really did do, limit the number of the Chinese buying 5,000 houses in Memphis, Tennessee. Or are BlackRock doing the same thing

and taking them off the market? That's thing one. The thing two you've suggested, and I like this even more, is to get the market moving, just do away with capital gains tax completely on single-family personal residences. Yeah. Or on personal residence period.

Sure. And they can do this in a periodic way. They can do it in a structured way. Right now it's 500 grand. But that's that's a 25-year-old law, isn't it? Yeah. And it's 500 grand. And 500 grand was different 25 years ago than it is today.

It was different five years ago. So if you moved that to a million. So if you went from 500 grand to a million. So that first million... You would stimulate sales like crazy. Here's what would happen. The baby boomers who are sitting on $89 trillion worth of assets, the baby boomers are willing to go, okay, you know what I might do?

You'd actually have a temporary dip in prices because they go, guess what? I'm going to make a mill on this. Maybe I'll take 50 grand off the house to sell it quick because I want to do it while the capital gains law has changed. They might take 50. They might take 70 off the price. They might take 100 off the price. You might have, oh, this guy took 50. Now they have.

So prices might take a little softening for a little supply in the market. A lot of supply in the market. Because your median seller right now is in their 60s, right? Median seller is 64 years of age. Is it capital gains or is it right to buy the next home that's stopping people? Or both? I just want to know what the motivation is. Baby boomers are sitting on.

Their houses are paid for. They're paid for. They got a bunch. That's fair. Yeah, yeah. They weren't buying then. Some, you know, some people say the greatest generation, their borderline, I'm going to create some tension here for you,

but their borderline being called the greediest generation. Well, we were. We're the 80s. Yeah. Go go, baby. Yeah. Gordon Gecko. Gordon Gecko, greased the hair back.

Exactly. The baby boom generation was the first historical generation to buy real estate, not just for a primary residence. Baby boomers bought rental properties. Baby boomers bought vacation properties. Baby boomers bought and built eight unit apartment buildings. So brilliant. They sacrificed.

They made their money. and they've done well. They've been slow to hand it over. So the two things we could do from a macro perspective, and usually you and I don't reach for Washington to do anything because they screw it up, and they have in this case too, but would be to limit corporate buying and to just do away with or raise the capital gains to a million. You can sell your home for your personal residence

for up to a million dollars profit with no taxes at all. If you just did away with it, you could increase your inventory substantially, which would increase the flow of houses, and we get back up above a 4 million transaction rate, and you'd get the inventory going. And the third thing is we've got to have some federal help probably pouncing on people like these idiots in California that have still not issued building permits two and a half years later on Palisades. My people, my people.

I'm from the People's Republic of California. Look, more homes were built in Dallas-Fort Worth last year than in the state of California. the entire state. Then the entire state, which is 40 million people. It's because of regulations and building permit costs. And all the fees, fees, fees, fees and more. They got more fees than a French poodle. Fee, fee, fee, fee, fee, fee, very good.

$167,000, the average fees for housing. Just to break ground. So the fact of the matter is there are governmental things that can happen. There are some things they're trying to do. They're trying to, they're actually, the one thing this current legislation does, does a lot of reducing requirements and restrictions. and regulations on housing. They're reducing the federal regulations on housing.

So that will help some things. They're going to expand, you know, the developed property. So like, you know, the delivered mobile home, right? So it's like you can build it to suit, which is a little more manufactured. And they're a little more structured than they used to be. So there are some things that they're doing that will help some things. Okay. So let's switch gears then.

That's stuff that we can't control if we're 35. Yeah. But we can control if we're giving all of our money to crypto or draft kings. We can control if we go into debt to Ford Motor Company for a $90,000 pickup, and so we don't have any money to save for a house. We can control if we don't let Citibank, what's in your wallet, screw me over with Samuel L. Jackson telling me to do it. We can control if we get deeply in debt with student loans.

These are controllables that the individual can do to put themselves in a position where they have disposable income to start moving towards buying. Dave Ramsey has a lot of answers to real estate business. You know, if I want to, somebody said, if I really hated a real estate agent and I wanted to just really screw them up, I'd refer them a couple of kids who wanted to buy a house and tell them to buy a truck first. If I really hated that realtor, again, here they go. And what happens is psychologically, their first major purchase is a car. And then they got a loan and now they feel like can buy a house. It's insanity and you've just, you just added three years.

You screwed up the whole thing. You screwed up the deal. Oh, and by the way, get married. Yeah, there's a good one. Cohabitating doesn't get you towards buying. a house. All the budgeting stuff you talk about is one-on-one. That's why I was a Dave Ramsey fan in my whole real estate career, because I'd have my

clients listen to your stuff so I could help them get a down payment to buy house. Yeah, opens up margin when you don't have debt. And then patience also to see some of these numbers. I got one more to add to this when we come back and then we're going to take some calls. Great. If you've had your phone two or three years, there's a chance it's unlocked. So bringing your own phone is a great way to unlock savings on your wireless bill. You can switch to Boost Mobile to get unlocked.

Bring your own device and save big. See, the big wireless companies count on you staying right where you are, paying more than you should every single month. They make it sound complicated to switch. It's not, by the way. And meanwhile, your bill keeps going up. That's not inflation. That's them taking advantage of you.

But Boost Mobile is different. They make it simple. You bring your phone, keep your number, and get unlimited wireless for just $25, month, and that price is locked in forever. No contracts, no hidden fees, no surprises. So, if you're tired of wasting money on your phone bill, this is your chance to do something about it. Go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey, get unlocked, and keep more of your hard-earned money. That's boostmobile.com slash Ramsey. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on BoostMobile Unlimited

plan. Talking with Brian Buffini. We're talking about real estate. The media, in age of the first time home buyer has gone up from 30 years old to 40 years old in the last 10 years. We have a shortage of inventory. We talked about there's three things that the government can do. One is lower regulations and get home building going again. Two is do away with capital gains and three is limit corporate buying thousands of single family homes and starving that inventory. As an individual, what can you do? Well, quit being desperate and swinging for the fence. And so stay off of draft kings and crypto. Quit buying crap you can't afford and letting these companies screw you like Lexus and you've got a car you can't afford for $1,250,

and then you whine because you can't buy a house. It's your fault. You did that. Okay. So you've got to stay out of the stupid. You've got to get the stupid student loan paid off like it's some kind of pet in your house. You've got to get that credit cards cut up and get Samuel L. Jackson out of your life. What's in your wallet?

All of your money, apparently. But yeah. So, you know, we've got to fix all of that. And then the one last thing I wanted to bring up, and I want your input on this, because you and are about the same. same age. And I've been hammered negatively on this subject because, and I was on Fox yesterday talking about it, as a matter of fact, and the anchor John on there is about our age. And he said, what did you pay for your first house, David? I went 675. What'd you pay for your

is 88,000? What'd you do that on $18,000 a year? Okay. Well, wages have not kept up with house prices because house prices shot up in the last 10 years due to inventory shortage and COVID garbage, right? And so wages have not kept up. That is real. However, the other thing we've never adjusted for in our psyche out there in the land of TikTok where you're 27 years old living in your mother's basement bitching about this is you've never adjusted your entitled viewpoint, because let me tell you what was in that $67,000 house. No stove, no refrigerator, had to go buy them used, no washer and dryer, no dishwasher. No dishwasher. no microwave, no disposal, roll out vinyl floor on the kitchen, and a fermica top, a chipped-up

sink that had little chips in the ceramic. The carpet, you had to mow it because it was seven inches tall. It was, remember shagged in the 1970s? Shaggedellie. Yeah, Shaggedellie. One bathroom. And it had one and a half baths. and it was 1,200 square feet with one car garage.

So you can't compare that house to your little McMansion that you're bitching about that you can't afford. So you don't compare that. I grew up in a 1,000 square foot house with an unfinished basement. We had no living room furniture until I was 13. And the living room wasn't as big as this desk. And so, you know, you adjust all of that before you say, well, you're a boomer. You had to be good. It was easy for you.

No, we didn't, I mean, I had one and a half cars. You guys got three, sir. You know. And so you really got to adjust for that in your expectations. And then lastly, you need to think about where you're buying. And in most markets, and you know this better than anybody, probably the urban, basic urban growth is if you go out of town away. As we say in Tennessee out in the country, it gets cheaper the further from downtown you move. Yep.

Yeah. And look, I mean, the. average home used to be 1,210 square feet. And now the average home is 2,900 square feet. And so it's much bigger. And the difference in those is not necessity. It's luxury. It's, you know, the 12 people were buying and the prices and the market and the way it went and all that kind of stuff. Here's the bottom line. You know, the first house I bought, it looked like it had been in a drive-by shooting, okay? And I was a housepanter son, you know, and I've, I fixed it up. And there's a thing called sweat equity. And everybody watches the homes and garden show.

The truth of the matter is, you know, I was out here in Tennessee there they just looking at stuff. And I was looking at the model homes and they have them all tricked out. And they're lined up out the door and everybody's buying the model homes. The money is not in the model home and the new construction. The money's in the old beater down the street without, you know, with the, it looks like it needs a coat of paint. Because it does. Because it does. You know, you make money in real estate when you solve somebody's problem.

That's how you buy, though, people. Yeah. You stay out of the traps and you set yourself up and you adjust your expectations and act like a first-time homebuyer, quit acting like you've been saving money for 25 or 30 years. You haven't. You're 27 years old. Look, how bad do you want it? Yeah. And, you know, I hear a lot of the younger folks, you know, the math isn't mathing, and I'm a lifestyle person, all this stuff. The average homeowner has 44 times the net worth of the average renter. And if you want to get on the right side of the net worth equation, the number one way people make money in America

and all over the world is housing. And so I've trained in 47 countries, and housing is the same all over the world. Food, shelter, clothing, the three necessities. And so you've got to fight and grind to do it. And again, I know, I think you're right. Get your foot in the door. People have losing hope, but people are also listening to all this garbage out there. 100%. You can do it. You can bite, fight, scratch, look, I'm an immigrant, came to America, got run out by a car. I have 250 grand in medical bills in 1986. I don't know what 250 grand is worth today. It'd be a fortune. And I bought my first house. And I fought like the dickens for it. And I, I literally didn't eat a meal that I didn't prepare for three years.

But that house I bought for 107 grand. I sold it for 164. The next one I bought was 220 and I fixed it up and I sold it for 394. And then I bought the next one and I bought it for 900. And then I bought the next one. And it was 1-8. And I bought the next one and that 1-8 now turned into 4. And the next one, 4 turned into 7.5 million.

And so here's a house painter's son with not a dime goes from in 22 years from 0 to 7. a half million. That doesn't happen by rent and that doesn't happen with crypto and it doesn't happen with draftings. Yep. Yeah, very good. Chuck is in Milwaukee. Let me get that line going. Chuck, how are you? Good. How are you doing? Great, man. Enter the conversation. How can we help? Hey, so I'm a long-time listener. I'm a baby step worker. And so my question is, So my wife and I've worked through most of the baby steps, except for the latter ones. And we are at the point now where we want, we're thinking about selling our house in order to be mortgage-free. And I'm just wondering, is that possible?

That makes you move down then, right? What's that? You would move down in-house. We downsize, yep. Okay. Other than to be mortgage-free, why would you do that? That's the only reason. I would. What's your house worth?

$447,000. And what do you owe on it? $192,000. What do you guys make a year? You're going to buy $150,000 house from a $500,000 house? Yeah. Doesn't make sense. Are you married?

Yeah. Don't do this. He just saved you $250,000 and made. marriage counseling right there, buddy. Chuck, do you want to do this? What is your wife saying? I am curious. Our goal is to, yeah, our goal was to work that baby step and be mortgage-free.

But personally, no, I like where we live. I'd rather just, you know, buckle down, pay it off. We've got eight or nine years until we could pay it off. That's what you should do. Yeah. Yeah, how much you guys make a year, Chuck? So I can tell you, I've been self-employed for 25 years. I'm a hardwood flooring contractor.

And I work alone. And do you want like the business gross income? No, I'm asking what your household income that you pay taxes on is. Okay, 100. I made 151,000. She made 6,000 and 4,000. Good, good. So 2 and a quarter, and you've got to pay off, you need to pay off 192,

and you're going to do that in four or five years. And then if you want to save up and move up, I would. but I don't know I would not sell this and move down to be debt free right I think you're going to be debt free soon enough you got a good plan um would you right well I'm a house painter son chuck so here's what we would do we do call it Saturday money so we take what was called a side job uh do a little do a little work on a side and every dollar I made on the Saturday job you used to pay down the debt and so you do that here's what you can be you could be debt free in five years not eight and you get to live in the same house and you know what your wife thinking

you're even cuter than you are right now. But no mortgage. It's amazing how people's looks changed suddenly. It's a beautiful thing. My wife thinks I'm gorgeous. Oh, my goodness. Brian Bafini is with us, real estate coach and expert.

We're going to come back in the last segment this hour and take your calls. Yeah, and I'll throw out too. There was some hope interjected there at the beginning about, hey, get in. Like, your housing is amazing. And so if you want to check out and find a great agent, go to ramsysysolutions.com.

slash agent. We'll put a link in the show notes. Yeah, we'll hook you up with a Ramsey trusted agent that knows what they're doing and they can help you really do this. It's possible, folks. Ramsey Solutions.com slash agent. If you've worked hard to keep your car running, the last thing you want is stress when you're running the kids all over to summer activities or loading up the family for a well-earned vacation. That's why I trust Christian Brothers Automotive. Listen, most people don't worry about their car just because it's older. They worry because they don't feel confident about what's happening under the hood or who's working on it. And that kind of uncertainty can turn a simple trip into a stressful one real fast. But Christian Brothers is different.

They use digital vehicle inspections so you can see what your technician sees, know what needs attention now, and what can wait, and make decisions without the pressure. That's how you protect your time, your money, and your travel plans. And Christian Brothers stands behind their work with the nice difference warranty, three years or 36,000 miles, whichever benefits you more. So before your next trip, take care of the car that's taking care of you. Go to CBAAC.com slash Ramsey to schedule your service and get 10% off your visit. That's CBAC.com slash Ramsey, 10% off up to a $250 value. See stores for details. Our guest is real estate expert and world renowned coach Brian Buffini, coaches more real estate agents than anyone else in America today, especially the high performing ones.

We're talking real estate. We're talking about it is possible. It is definitely harder. It's definitely different than it was 10 years ago. And it's definitely way different than it was 30 years ago. No question. That is not in question. But the question is you can control only the things you can control. And that's what you should control. If you control the controllables, you can put yourself in a position to bye. Carter is with us in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Carter, your question for Brian and the panel here. Hey, guys. How's it going? Great. How can we help? I just wanted to call in and just say my wife and I are expecting with our first child, and we're currently thinking that home buying is our next thing that God wants us to do. Cool. We are both in full-time ministry. So we're, we're

With that, obviously it's not like an extravagant paychecks that we get, but we're not in it for the money. I'm just wanting to know, like, how we can go from the jump. We're renting right now. How we go from the jump of we have everything budgeted with our rent to our mortgage payment, everything with bills and like that. Congratulations on the baby. How old are you guys? Thank you. 22 and 23.

Okay. And how old is, I mean, I'm sorry, what is your household income today? yearly we both combine to 60,000. Okay, you have a bunch of debt? Nope. My wife has no debt whatsoever. The only debt I have is student loans, but I'm working through a public student loan forgiveness

because I've worked for a church. Ten years is not a plan to get out of debt, honey. Yeah. Okay. Brian, what do you think? Yeah. How much is on the student loan, by the way? 21,000.

Okay. And after your bills come in and your money comes in, how much left over? You have anything left at the end of the month? So with all bills aside and Tide offering aside and everything like that, we have about 1,600 left to spend, not including food or anything like that. Okay. You got any money saved? We have $13,000, including $1,000 emergency fund.

Great. Fantastic. Wow, you're way ahead of what I thought. Yeah, 22 and 23. We got a winner here, just hope for America. Okay? What's the average sales price in Columbus, Ohio? We're looking, we got pre-approved for 228, but I was doing the math and just looking what our mortgage would be.

I just don't know how that would be possible to, we just kind of be making. Pre-approved only means that the mortgage company has brain damage. Okay. Because there's no possible way you should do that. Yeah. You know that. When you looked at the payment, you bought choke, didn't you? Yeah.

Yeah. Good for you. It's about 220, though, $220,000. Okay. All right. Just curious, what would $220 get you in Columbus, Ohio? Like bedrooms and stuff like that? About three beds, two baths.

Nice. Wow. Nice, I know. We're not living in San Diego, baby. So like 2,000 square feet, huh? Like 1,500, yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Okay. Well, Carter, I would take that 13,000 that you have, throw it at the student loans. You guys, you may want to work a part-time job for just a season. Well, when's your wife do? When's the baby coming? End of September, early October. Okay. Between now and then, Carter, if I were you, I would be stacking cash and I would go work extra, weekends and nights.

And you guys, yeah, pile up some cash, get the student loan knocked out, save some more back to that emergency fund, and then make it a big goal. goal, yeah, of, and knowing that you're on a $60,000 income, okay? So it's going to, it's going to take you guys a couple of years to stay for that down payment, but it is totally possible. So let me, let me tell you this. I have completely affirm God's call on your life to be in ministry, and I want you to keep doing that. And here's the reality that goes with that. You're not going to only get to do that for the first decade. go talk to some 65-year-old pastors and ask them how many of them, when they were 22, worked a side hustle. We work with 50,000 churches in America, and what we found is that 88% of pastors are bivocational. They have a side gig.

88%. And they call that full-time ministry. My pastor that led me to the Lord and baptized me is with the Lord today. and back in the day, he delivered bread at a bread truck, and he was a full-time pastor. And he told that story from the pulpit a thousand times to where we all could visualize the bread truck. We heard it so much. But it was perfect.

So you're 22 and 23. You're just beginning. You've got time. You don't need to buy a house today to be rich. You don't need to buy a house today. And money's not your motivator anyway, but you do need to buy a home. It's going to be good for your family. but it may be five years.

So what? Clear the student loans. You pile up some cash. You work some side hustles. And, you know, your ministry continues to grow. And maybe you move into a senior pastor role at some point where you actually can just do that and make enough money to afford a home. So if you buy a house at 27 or 28 years old and you put down a good solid down payment and you stay out of debt and you're a good dad and a good pastor, I would call you. a phenomenal success in America.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And by the way, being a pastor can also be your side hustle. I had a buddy of mine, and he was in the same spot. And again, sometimes you can be so heavenly-minded you no earthly good. I'm here to be a minister, and I'm trying to help. And so his side hustle was marry, Barry, and baptize. And so he said, I'll marry, Barry, and baptize.

And he put a little service out there. And he made enough money to go buy himself a house. So your ministry could be your side hustle too. I love it. Danielle is in Des Moines. Hi, Daniel. Your question for the panel. Where's it going? Good. How can we help? So my husband and I, we're in our mid-20s and thinking about starting a family soon. So we're looking at buying a house maybe in the next year or two. And we're just wondering what we should be prioritizing in our first house for our family,

like should it be a location, size, the cheapest thing possible. And we're trying to put down 20%. Wow, that's great. That's unusual for a first-time homebuyer. That's good, though, if you could do it. So what do you think the leading indicator of a home? You want to get in, but you're not going to live there forever. So how many kids you have again, Danielle? Well, we don't have any right now, but we're hoping it within the next year.

Well, so you plan for that. Here's the big tip I give people all the time. You'd live in the floor plan, not the square footage. People get caught up in square footage. So sometimes older houses have smaller square footage and better floor plans. You'll see this like you can see a town home or a condo has lots of square footage, but it's all cut up and chased up or it's a two-story. So you live in the floor plan, not the square footage. So start thinking about, okay, Lord willing, if we had a couple of kids,

what would that look like? So to me, you want to make sure that you got the best floor plan that's open as possible. And then, you know, I have six kids, me and my bride, which seemed like a great idea at the time. And we, we prioritize having a yard over everything else. You know, we were going to have those chrome snatchers out there catching balls and running around and we live where it was a little bit sunny. So to me, again, it's your priorities. So floor plan is key over, over square footage and typically the older houses of the better floor plans. And then a little bit of yard if you're going to have kids, those will be the first two for me. Yeah, very good. Very cool. All right. Well done, sir. So Brian Bafini has been our guest this hour. Brian, if people want to learn about Bafini and company,

the leading real estate coaching company in the world, how do they do that? Well, like I said, we have buffini and company.com. Just check us out. If they're interested in, if they're in real estate, that's our specialty. We do real well. We have thousands of clients. We really teach people to take care of their customers. That's what we're all about.

And so we help real estate agents do well. And a lot of our agents that we coach are in your program helping folks out to us. A lot of our Ramsey trusted agents are coached by Buffini and company. So that's absolutely perfect. Well, folks, we want to give you hope. And we don't want, there's a whole industry that makes a living telling you that there's a bubble and there's a crash coming and the world is coming to an end and chicken little we sell helmets. And you could never be a homeowner.

You'll never make it. America is dead. There's people make a living off of that and that's a lie. Is it different? Yes. Is it hard? Yes. Has it always been some form of hard? Yes. Yes. But can you do it? You control the controllables. You know, stay out of crypto and draft kings and get out, get yourself out of debt. and then adjust your expectations on your first home, and you can get yourself into the market. And we'll help you do it. We love you. We love you. It's right.

Brian, thanks for being here. It's so true. I love you guys. So appreciate it. Love helping people today. It was a treasure. Thank you. Check out our agents at ramsysolutions.com slash agent.

If you want a ramsay trusted agent to help you do it the way we teach you. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host today. Mary's in Dallas. Hey, Mary, how can we help? Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Well, Dave, my husband and I have been married 19 years. We're approaching retirement, and we've always managed our finances separately. We're a blended family. We don't have a will,

and we're struggling to move from talking about major financial decisions to actually making them. We cannot get on the same page. I just don't know how to get there. What's the biggest difference, Mary, if you could explain? What is kind of his mindset with things? What's yours? Where does that conflict come in? So he has a lack of trust about he kind of holds most of the liquid assets.

I have retirement assets, but he has more liquid assets. We kind of have always split bills. And I tend to carry debt and then pay it off, carry it. that kind of borrowed money against savings and paid him back. And so his concern is that if we combine finances, then he's not going to be able to protect our future. From you. From me.

From me, yes. Okay. That's valid. You keep borrowing money and paying it off with his money and then paying him back, and that scares him. Well, of course it does. It should. Well, we both work, and I have an income.

He's observing a pattern that scares him that is a valid thing. So you have to remove that, you know, that pattern in order for him to be comfortable combining finances because he's conservative. Could he, if you guys agreed on the value system of if we combine finances, debt is no longer part of our family, we are not going to use debt. Would you be okay with that? Absolutely. You would. Absolutely. I've suggested that we sit down, we sit down and go over our debts, go over our assets, look at everything together, pay off what needs to be paid off, create a household account, and hold me accountable, hold him accountable. That's healthy. I'm with you on that. But, you know, if it's so, but there's a, if someone observes a behavior.

pattern and that behavior pattern breaks trust, that's valid. So we've got to solve for that emotionally. He's got to have a reason to believe that you're not going to do this again. And you're saying, I'm, as a friend of mine said the other day, he said, I had to submit myself to the system. Yep. I have to say, the system says we don't borrow money. The system says we have a budget that we both agree on. and I had to submit myself to that. In other words, my little wants or little impulses were subject to my agreement with my spouse. And if he believes that, and okay, I will never spend another dime again that we have not both agreed on.

Oh, and by the way, neither will you. If he really believes that that's going to happen, then there's no possible way you could go in debt, right? Correct. And I think that where we haven't gotten on the same page that way is that I think he's too frugal. He thinks I'm too liberal. Well, you do need each other in that regard in general. If one of you is not over the top. But here's what I would suggest y'all do.

Let's try combining the budget, the monthly income budget. And work out of one. Yeah. First. and if we do that, then that addresses. Now, and then both of you need to hear this part, okay? The saver needs a spender in his life, so he has a life, okay? Correct.

Because the people that are like him will live in a cave, collect Lent, and only come out on triple coupon Thursday, right? And that's not, you know, and the saver, him, the spender, you, needs a saver, in his life, in your life, so you don't have to retire and eat dog food. Correct. Because you spend everything. So we've got to balance that out, and so there has to be a portion of Mary in the budget where there's some fun. In our case, that'd be Rachel.

And there's a portion of your husband, which is Rachel's husband, Winston is more like your husband, is conservative and very, but he allows for fun. and she allows for savings because we agree that both of those things are necessary to have a quality life. Yeah, absolutely. Mary, I want to follow back. When you mentioned the trust aspect at the beginning of the call, because you said he has a lot of liquid assets. Does he – did you mean trust with, like, the market or you? I think with me.

Okay, so it's a relational trust. Okay. Yeah, yeah. He has two big things. So one thing, we have a franchise and we invested a lot. of money into that and we're not going to come out whole on the other end of that. So he feels very protective of the liquid assets and retirement that he has, which is fine. And then I, at one point, because I handled separate finances, made a decision to do some cosmetic dentistry for one of our

children that was substantial. And he felt that was a major financial decision. I didn't discuss with him, which it was, but we handled our finances separately. I have substantial retirement assets, but I really don't have very much liquid at all. So what is your retirement asset base? A little over a million. Okay. And what's the, is the franchise as a business one of you are running? It is a business, and I mean, we both own it, but I'm running it and there's two years

left on the franchise. What do you make? And it's going to, you're just going to close it? I believe so. Yeah. And so you've been responsible for that. Let me say this carefully. In his mind, in his mind, does he feel like you're responsible for that failure?

I don't think so. I don't think so. We've talked about, he said we own that together. Okay, and we made the decision together, and it failed, and we did that together. Yes, sir. Yeah, so I would probably sit down, Mary, and you guys need to have a discussion for, to your point, to Dave's point earlier, that maybe some valid concerns that he may have. and what does he need to see within you to get any level of that trust back on your side?

Because you guys as a couple are going to function better when you see yourselves as a unit. You guys have been married 19 years and you've never combined this part of your life. And so that is a desire of yours. And so that question I would want to know from him, hey, what are the things that you need to see? and I am willing to make some changes when it comes to the way I handle money or communicate about money, but I do desire that we are seen as one in all of this, right? And what are those steps to get there? Because I would be curious what he'd want to see from you.

And if it's ridiculous and it's crazy and it's controlling and it is super, you know, all of this, if I don't want you to ever spend money on avocados or something just crazy, then there's going to be some of his issues that are in this as well, not just you. And so. But if you have a reasonable acceptance of his need to save, he has a reasonable acceptance of yours to enjoy money. Yes. That's a good, healthy balance inside your budget. And that should be there.

That's accurate. Rebuilding trust, Henry Cloud's book, Trust, it gives you a great way to do that. And I think a good entry point here is just first start budgeting together. If you budget together for 90 days, the amount of discussions you're going to have to get on the same page is going to be amazing. You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVester can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options.

So you never have to invest in anything you don't understand. Head to Ramsey Solutions.com slash smartvester to get connected. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at Ramsey Solutions.com slash smartvester. Alex Alexis, I'm sorry, is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, Alexis. How are you? Doing great. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

All right. So me and my husband, we've owned our home for a little over a year now, and we renovated our entire home. And now we have, we suspect like 70,000 or more in equity. And then we're expecting our first baby here in July. So we've been working really, really hard to make smart financial decisions. Our question for you is, would it be wise to refinance our home and use the equity to put it towards an investment property? Most likely it would be farmland that we could later build on. Or should we wait at least one more year and then sell the house after, like, we don't have to pay capital games. You should wait. Wait. And sell the house and not buy something unless you're going to move into it. Okay. Because you can't afford investment property.

You don't have any money. Okay. If you go into debt to buy a piece of land that's just sitting there and you're paying payments on it, that destabilizes your home where your new baby is. No, we don't do that. Okay. Yeah, I think the goal would be to continue to farm that land. Yeah, well, so what? You're not farming it now. What do you guys do for a living, Alexis?

My husband is, he works at a steel mill, and then I am a stay-at-home mom. Okay. How much do you guys make a year? We make anywhere from 5,500 to 7,000 a month. Okay, so the land is how much land? It would be eight acres. Eight acres. What would you farm on it? Corn, beans.

Okay. You can't make the payments on that amount of money with farming beans on eight acres. Okay. The numbers don't work. And so it's like he's got a dream of owning some dirt. Yeah, I'm going to ask, is that like a passion kind of thing for you guys, or what causes you to do that? Yeah, I think the goal would be right now we have a small. house that we own. And so the goal would be to eventually build on that property. There we

would like to own some property. There we go. Okay. So now here's what I would do. That makes more sense than I'm going to farm this and call it an investment on eight acres. Okay. That just doesn't. That's not enough to spit on. So no. What I would do is have your baby. You guys live your life, stack some cash and say, all right, the goal, to use your phrase, the dream. is to buy a piece of property and build a home on it and sell hours and move into the new home on the piece of property. And that piece of property and home after construction are still a reasonable part of our budget, no more than 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed.

And then if he wants to have a gentleman farm on it and have a little bit of a side hustle, that doesn't kill me, okay? and that's kind of fun for him apparently and so on, right? But that's truly gentleman farming. Yeah, and your life is about to be so different now being parents. And so I think you did say your state-home mom. So maybe you guys have other kids. But I would take this slow.

I would not be in a rush to make these big decisions. I mean, honestly, I think a few years of saving is going to be just fine. And then you guys may sell that house, go rent somewhere to be able to put down a good down payment. construction line, all of that, you know, there may be a process order. The reason you are framing this poorly as an investment idea is because you're in a hurry. And you have to borrow your primary residence. Exactly. If you slow down and make this deal your primary residence later after the baby's here

and you've got some money saved and you make a good solid purchase and you think about building a home on there and selling this home and putting all. all of the equity into the new purchase. And again, then it becomes a wise thing, but all of that slows down your excitement level that cause you to move too fast and move into a bad idea. Julian is in Baltimore. Hi, Julian. How are you?

Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Yeah, so I'm in baby step number two, and I'm working on paying off my student loans, and I have a little bit of credit card debt left. How much debt? Um, I, there's $3,800 on it, um, which I, on the credit card. How much on the student loan?

Oh, yeah, um, 70,000 on the student loans. And what do you make? The big one. Um, right now, I, uh, I just graduated college in May. So I'm doing 35 hours a week at $17 an hour. Um, so my take home is right around 500. Um, which, why'd you go to college? What do you make? I mean, what do you do? That's, that's all. Yeah, well, that was just my job. I was in college. I'm currently looking for a career, but I got an environmental science and policy. Well, he just graduated a month ago. I know, what's your degree in? Environmental science and policy. Okay, so how's the new, how's the big boy job hunt going? Well, I have my resume, started tailoring my resume. I have also applied for, to be a game more than the department of natural resources. which is my my second choice and that would be doing 80,000 a year for that. Okay.

And your degree does somewhat prepare you for that. Okay. Yes. That makes sense. All right. So, yeah. So, all right. Now I'm caught up.

Okay. But you need to be in the big boy job quick. Yes. Okay. All right. The way you presented this is like 17 hours. It's been three weeks. I know, but the $17 an hour was like success or something.

It's not success. It's no, we're not doing that. Okay, anyway, how can I help? How can we help? What's your question? Yeah, so once I get that big boy job, and like I said, I'm on baby step two. But once I get that big boy job, I want to pay off my loans, but I also want to shave up to buy a ring to propose to my girlfriend.

Yay! I love it. Thank you. We've been dating for three years, and I really want to take the next step with her. And I've talked to her family, and, um, I've talked to her family. and I just was curious how you would do that, you know, because I have such a big payment in my student loans. Should I, you know, hold off on that for me? No, no, I think you get rid of the credit card debt and then you save up some money for a ring

and then you get back on the student loans. Okay. So have you got a budget in mind on the ring? Yeah, somewhere around 2000, 2,000 to 3,000. That fits. Good, good. Yeah, and you may just be working three jobs to get there faster, too, you know? Yeah, and hopefully you get the 80,000.

If you get the 80,000, that's it. So a good rule of thumb for those listening, not for you, because I like your 2,000, okay? But a good rule of thumb is a maximum of one month's pay for your ring. Jewelry store in the mall will tell you three months, but they sell rings. It's like asking a dog if it's hungry, okay? So, of course, they're going to do that. But the, so one month, and so in your situation, that 2000 is very reasonable given that you're going to have to stop paying on your debt to do this. And that, yes.

But, and I think you're very wise, and yes, I would do all of that as soon as you possibly can. Okay. Yeah, the credit card should be paid off by the end of July. I also, I'm a lacrosse coach, so I run multiple camps and do individual lessons. So I'm kind of already doing a sidehouse on top of that. And that will stay once I get that career path. Good. But yeah, so I was, that was.

Yeah, you'll be able to attack the 70, but, and is she out of school too? Yes. And what's her career? She's a nurse. Has she got the, passed her bars and got the job? She's finishing up nursing school, so this semester will be here last semester. Good. She'll graduate in December.

Will she have debt? A little bit as well, yes. So when you combine incomes and combine those two student loan debts and you guys have a wonderful life starting off and you attack those student loans and get rid of them and then you go be millionaires, we're going to be so proud of you. All right. Thank you. Well done. Well done. Very well done.

It's great. Good stuff. Good stuff. That's cool. Well, fresh off the grad stage, Dave's like, what? What are you doing? Well, what are you? I'm working 35 hours.

I heard 35 hours a week at $17. I heard that too. And that's the definition of sucks right there. But he also was a lacrosse coach. He's killing it. Well, he didn't, that buried that lead. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade Warshaw.

Listen, summer spending adds up so fast between vacations and road trips and camp fees and events and all the extra gas and grocery runs, money can get tight before you know it. To really get your money under control and keep it that way, you're going to need a plan. And that's what you'll get with the Every Dollar Budget app. It helps you track your spending, free up cash to put toward debt and savings, and it's the simplest way to make a plan for your money before the month begins. So no more wondering where your money's going. You're telling it where to go. Download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Austin and McKenzie are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Doing pretty good. How are you? Welcome, welcome. Where do you all live? Mount Pleasant, Michigan. Ah, okay.

Where's that near? Like, in the middle. Okay, right in the middle. I love Michigan. People always put up the hand up. I caught the hand. Talk to the hand. Yeah, good.

Very cool. Well, welcome to Nashville, and you're here to do a debt-free scream. How much debt have you paid off? We paid off $117,417. Love it. And how long did that take? 19 months. Good for you.

And your range of income during that two years? We started at 100,000 and then we ended at $203,000. Well, that's a little jump. Nice. What do you all do for a living? I am a health insurance agent. I'm a broker. And I'm a stay-at-home mom.

Okay. So how'd you double your income in 18 months, dude? Well, we actually, once we had our first child, I realized we weren't sure if she was going to stay home or continue to work. And when I was holding her, I realized we have to keep her home with her mom. And that just really set a fire to pick things up for me. Yeah, so he just worked really hard to up the sales. Wow. Golly.

Baby will motivate you. Oh, yeah. Changes a lot. Yeah, you're holding that child. You're like, this just got real. Oh, my gosh. Wow, very cool. So what was the $117,000 in debt?

What kind of debt? Credit cards, two cars, student loans, personal loan, medical, and our house. Wow, you paid off your house. We sure did. So what's the house worth? It is worth $135,000. Very cool. Good for you guys.

In Mount Pleasant, Michigan. What does that buy? How many square feet is that? How many bedrooms? It's about a little over 1,000 square feet, and it's a three-bed, one bath. Wow, very cool. And how old are you two? 27.

And you have a paid-for house in Michigan. Yeah. That's pretty amazing, y'all. It feels good. It feels great. I bet. Pretty incredible. What year did you guys buy the house?

Two years ago? Yeah, two years ago. Almost two years ago? Yeah. Amazing. So we were just talking last hour about people getting in the market and doing all of this and getting out of debt and all of it. And you guys did all of it in 18 months, two years basically, got in. Not only did they buy a home in their 20s, they paid it off in their 20s.

Well done. Guess what? They bought a 1,000, what do you say? How many square feet? 1,000, about 1,000. About 1,000 square feet. Yeah. Well done, you guys. That's amazing. This is not going to be on the, you know, the land of the rich and famous, but it is a great starter house to start raising kids. But the land of the rich, because you guys are going to start. You're going to be millionaire. Yeah. I mean, hey, it's a roof over ahead. I love it.

Yeah, I love it. I'm so proud of you. Way to go. So did you sell anything like the cars or anything? No, actually, we just, we kept the cars that we currently have. And during the process, I actually called into the show to ask if I should buy a 1976 Corvette. And yeah, it was interesting.

You had told me, you know, not necessarily something that you would have done at that time, but to keep it based off the incoming where I was at during the baby steps. Uh-huh. So probably would have maybe been a little bit sooner if I hadn't done that. But you kept the car? Yeah, we kept everything. Because we told you too, that we told you could. Yes.

Yeah, Rachel, you gave me a little more trouble than Dave did, surprisingly. So, surprisingly. We were all together. Look at that. Yes. I probably was like sell it. Oh, I think I do remember this. I don't get it.

Cars are such a big deal. It wasn't, but how much money was it? It was $7,700. Yeah. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Oh, so what happened 19 months ago that you said, okay, we're going to start this journey to pay off all? I mean, that's a long list of debt. Yeah, I mean, I'm in the house.

Yeah, I don't think it was anything, one big thing in particular. I think it was just a bunch of little small things. But I think definitely our first daughter being born, we were like, yeah, we got to, you know, leading up to that. We were like, we got to get serious about this. What do you tell people the key to doing this is? I would say at least for me and the people that I talk to, the ones that don't really make it or get anywhere are the ones that say that it's impossible to do or they just can't do it. And like for us, we asked how can we do this? What do we need to do?

Exactly. So that's, that was my advice. If you're in that situation where it feels impossible, I definitely ask yourself how and start from there. Also just like being honest with yourself. and like putting the numbers in your face because it took him, I won't say nagging, but persistently being like,

hey, let's add up what you spent what on this month, you know, and all this stuff. And it took me sitting down and looking at the number that I was spending on fast food to be like, actually, you know what? I can afford to put more money towards my debts. Like there's no reason that I should only be making minimum payments on everything. Wow.

So the budget and the revealing of, hey, this is what's going on and here's what we have to change. from a lifestyle perspective even. Absolutely. Just be honest with yourself. Yes. So good. Yeah, people live in a little bit of that denial, I think, at times, right, where you're like,

it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal. And then, yeah, you add it up. You're like, oh, man, this could be going towards something great. Yeah, absolutely. Well done, you guys. So you guys are content today with an inexpensive home and some inexpensive cars so that you're 100% debt-free.

and I've often taught, and Rachel has too, that contentment is not on the same spectrum with ambition because you're very ambitious at the same time in that you leaned into this, you worked your tail off, made a bunch of sales, you cleaned up the mess, you paid it all off in 18 months, house and everything, oh my gosh. Where does that contentment come from? I would say we just have a lot of peace knowing that, you know, something were to happen to me tomorrow that the girls will be okay, that they're not going to drown in debt. We put a lot of things in place that you guys have recommended to give us that

peace. And I'll say, I know people that have much nicer cars and much nicer homes, but have a lot more stress on their shoulders. And that's just not something that I wish for myself or my family. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I mean, I'm content with food in the fridge, a roof over our head, and happy daughters, you know, and just giving it up to God, and he's provided what we need, and we don't need anything else. I guess that's where the contentment comes from. Yes. We complicate our lives so much, right?

And we do it to ourselves. Yeah, chasing after the next big thing. That's right, absolutely. And that keeps you in a broke cycle for so many people. And they don't even realize it, right? And you guys are just a beautiful example of what that looks like, because you're exactly right. I think trading the peace over the stress any day.

Yes. And people crave it. They don't know what to do. Absolutely. Yeah, we'll be saving up. We're currently saving up for our next house so we can cash. Yeah, absolutely. So it'll take some time, but that's the next goal for us. Yeah, you guys are awesome. Yeah, you're going to be able to do, I mean, if you're making a couple of hundred, you're going to be able to do whatever you want to do in very short order. Yes. Because you got the stuff in the right order. You didn't go, you know, acting like you were richer than you are. And so, and that's going to set you up to build incredible wealth and generosity. In the meantime, you've got the piece of, you've got the piece of, you know, going, hey, this house, we got no payments.

And I'll tell you something else, how long has the house been, how long has the debt been paid off? How many months ago was that? February is when we paid it off. Have you noticed yet a difference in your sales? Well, I notice there's definitely a difference in everything that I do, knowing that it's paid off. I mean, we've cash flowed three vacations since then as a little celebration.

Yeah. Including this one. This will be our last one for a while. but there's definitely a different, there's a calm in the air that we've never felt before. Yeah, I've always coached small business owners and sales teams as well that when you don't have a single debt in the world, you don't have to make a sale and people can smell it. Yeah. And you end up increasing your income.

Yeah. Because they don't think you, you don't smell needy. Yeah. You know, a needy salesperson, you know, you can smell it. The commission breath is awful. Exactly. Exactly. That's exactly what it is.

And how old are the kids? We have a, she just turned 19 months old and she just turned five months old. Okay. Did you bring them or are they home? Yeah, they're here. You want to put them in the debt-free scream? Yeah. All right, let's bring them up then.

That's perfect. And what are their names? This one's Harlan. Mm-hmm. So great. A little Harlan. Oh, cute. And the little baby is Maggie.

Oh, my gosh. So sweet. Oh, two kids. Mom and Dad changed their family tree. All right, count it down. $117,000 paid off in nine. 19 months, debt-free house and everything at 26. Let's hear a debt-free scream. One, two, three, we're debt-free!

What a Mike, you got to do the debt-free scream early. It's so good. That's awesome. So good. Oh. You should not feel uncertain about investing, and you don't have to. That's why we created investing essentials, a two-night virtual event. where George Camel and I walk you through my playbook for investing and wealth planning. We'll simplify everything from 401Ks and mutual funds to passing on wealth, so you can invest with confidence. Tickets start at $199.

Get yours today at ramsysolutions.com slash events or click the link in the show notes. Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 116, it is impossible to please God. without faith, anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him. St. Francis of Assisi said, start by doing what's necessary, then do what's possible, and suddenly you are doing the impossible. People always want to know how I handle my investments. And a couple of years ago, we decided to open Dave's investing playbook on real estate and on other things. And that includes what I don't invest in. why. And we called it investing essentials. And George Camel and I did a virtual event for two nights.

We've only done that two times. We're going to do it again. One more time. And we're going to change up a little bit of the content and get a little bit into building a lasting legacy and dealing with the issues of wealth inside your family and looking at wills and estate planning just a little bit as well. So we're going to get into all of that. It's two nights. It's a virtual. event, September 1st and 2nd, me and George Camel. Tickets start at $199. You can get them at Ramsey Solutions.com slash events. Jasmine is with us in Baltimore. Hi, Jasmine. How are you? Hey, I'm really curious how this is going to go. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I went into some debt at the time I wasn't super familiar with your baby steps, but I'm

in phase baby step number two now building a homeschool app. And I'm thinking about taking some certificates, paying to take some AI product management certificates to put me in a different tax bracket. Entry level is like 100K can be like anywhere between 100K and 200K starting pay. And I'm wondering, is it like it's such a competitive field. Is it worth me paying in to take those certificates and putting that time in to come out the other side, hoping to put that money back into my business. Are you already in the technological field?

Well, I'm the product manager for the app that I built. Like, I built this app from scratch for homeschoolers. That means you did it by yourself at your kitchen table? No, no. I hired a web development company, but, like, I chose, like, how everything's supposed to function, like, where the buttons are supposed to be, what needs to connect to what. like I designed it completely from that. And that's what a product manager does.

I know what a product manager does. I have a bunch of them works for me, okay? I'm sorry. That's okay. The, so I, but I just didn't visualize how you're doing. But you've got no software engineering experience at all. No. Okay.

All right. And what with the courses, is it the, what you're going to get and learn in those for the app or you said it's going to put you in a different tax bracket like what she just means you going to make more money how though make more money so I can move the business faster with the day job

make more money in what you're currently doing or with the app um make more money with getting the project management AI project management certificates to get a different job okay so to go into the care I make about 60 I gotcha I gotcha and the field at which

you're looking to get in. Is AI project? Yes, I know. Thank you. Yes. But I'm asking, is that, is the type of online course that you're taking, do they see that as, because it's kind of, it's all pretty new. Do they need that as a standard?

Are they looking for something else? I just want to make sure you don't get in this and get something that people are like, I don't even know what this is. And it does, it really doesn't do much for you. No, the Coursera certificates that you can get are. specialized for project management training and then there's some for AI project management training and if you pay like $300 you get access to like 10,000 different courses and I only need maybe four different certificates and

I'm really burnt out at my job that I'm at and it's it's not moving the needle fast enough for me okay okay so here yes I would spend $300 on continuing education yes I would pursue your dream where I've got a disconnect is that someone told you this guarantees and opens these doors, and I'm not sure it does. Right. That's why I'm like, should I, okay, so yes, do it, but I don't know that I'll get a job doing it, but I know that I have it in me to do that job if I were to get that job. Yes. Have you talked to people, though, that are, that the job is out there and you could apply for it and they're saying, hey, you do need these courses and then you could be in the running to get it?

Have you already got any search in project management, not counting AI? No, I don't. I just have proof that I can, like, that I can do the job because of what I've already built. The app that you did. It's proof, too. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

So I'll be, here's what's running through my mind, all right? we have 400 people of our 1,000 people that are in the technology side of things. Obviously, we're leaning heavily into AI, and obviously we have several project managers and lots of product squads working on things that are being led by different people. And I'm trying to think through if this would cause us to consider hiring you. the fact that you built an app for your homeschool thing. I don't know if that qualifies you to be a project manager, even though you actually did manage a project.

I'm not arguing that. I'm not sure we would hire you. And I'm not sure we would hire you because you had a certificate that says you're an AI project manager that cost you $300 to go through Corsair. I think we would talk to you. That's why I'm asking the companies that you're wanting to work for, Jasmine. What are they saying?

It's not a golden key. that opens the door. Yeah, but it's not Ramsey. She's asking. No, but it is. She's wanting to get a job making $100,000 a year. I know. But in technology companies, trust me, I got some friends working in those.

Plenty of money there. It's crazy. So I was wondering, like, has she talked, like when she's looking at these jobs, are they saying this is a hole that has to be filled and this is a way to fill that hole? Or is it work experience? Like, I'm trying to figure out what it is for that next step. And is it courses or is it not? Yeah.

There is plenty of money in technology companies, and we pay a lot of money. to the technology team here. That's true. All of those are true. The only question I've got is whether this actually is the golden key that opens the door. And I'm not sure it is. And so... But what would be the next step for her to get on that path?

I think I would talk to someone who's actually doing the job that she wants to do. Talk to the company she's applying for. I agree. Find someone that is doing AI project management and say, okay, what would qualify, what would make me get an interview and possibly... get hired, would this certificate help? Or is it a slam dunk if I've got their certificate? Or nobody gives a crap if I've got their certificate? And talk to somebody who's actually doing that. Right. And I think you're going to find that they're going to want some, if you want to be a project

manager and you want to be an AI, both are cutting edge situations. You probably are going to have to have something more than what I'm hearing here. But I might be wrong. So I do want you to discover all of that. I don't want you to spend $300 and then be vastly disappointed that you didn't walk into the first place. And they went, oh, we have to have you. You got a Coursaire certificate, which I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen. Okay. So, and you suddenly go make $100,000 a year. I just, no, I don't believe that's going to happen.

But I do believe that you're on the right track. And I want you to continue pursuing this. Yeah, I would use Ken Coleman's principle, the proximity principle. Go talk to people in that field, Jasmine. and again, to those companies that you're looking at to apply for, and go out to coffee with some of them, like, hey, what are the first four things I need to be doing to get myself in the running for this? Because this is a passion of yours. You're obviously somewhat educated in it because you built an app and you're like, you're actually in that world doing it. You're pressing

the buttons. You're talking to the people develop. Like, you are in this world. And so what's the next formality to actually make you in the running for it? And it may be this certificate. It may not. We don't know. But I would go talk to people in that field. Folks, the danger I want everybody out there to look for is this. Don't, when someone tells you in a trade school or a certificate program or a four-year education, that this is going to be the magic pill that makes your life all good. It's not.

You're the secret sauce, not the education piece. You're the secret sauce that gets the job, keeps the job. And so when someone says, oh, we'll put you in a higher tax bracket, that sounds like a sales pitch from a trade school to me. And so I don't want you to fall for that. I want you to have good, solid information to make these decisions. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.