The Ramsey Show - You Cant Build Wealth While Carrying Other Peoples Problems

Starting point is 00:00:00 George Campbell here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So take what you learn today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author,

Starting point is 00:00:43 and host of the runaway hit on Ramsey Network, the Dr. John Deloney Show. He is my co-host today. Cody is in Nebraska. Hi, Cody. How are you? You know, Dave, I am better than I deserve. How are you?

Starting point is 00:00:57 Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, guys, I'm going to start off a little bit of a doozy here, so I do apologize. But my wife and I have just recently found out that her parents are asking my wife's sisters that are under 18 for money for basic bills. We don't really know, you know, I've heard in the past you guys say, like, don't say anything unless they come to you and ask for help or guidance.

Starting point is 00:01:26 We're just kind of stuck because, you know, my sister-in-laws are 10, 12, and then 17. So I'm just kind of, we're kind of confused on what to do. How much money do they have? well so my so the younger sister-in-laws they were you know working over the summer um so basically what happened was is you know my sister my 10-year-old sister-in-law told us that well mom and dad kept saying that we don't have enough money for groceries this month and blah blah so i offered him my four hundred dollars that i got from dog sitting and they took it for groceries and then um or my 17-year-old sister-in-law came over two weeks ago and said that they had quote-unquote

Starting point is 00:02:14 borrowed $1,000 from her for bills for last month to cover. Is this true? Are they struggling that bad? I would say so, yes. It's been talked about, you know, a couple months ago, my wife overheard that they're like $10,000 short a month. He, my father-in-law owns his own business and it's been, I know it's been struggling for quite a while. So I want to put things in order. I have, you hear a sale all the time.

Starting point is 00:02:46 You can't help family unless they come ask you. But before that, I'm always going to protect kids. Of course. And if you got a 10 year old that's coming to you saying, dad is saying, I don't have enough money for groceries. I need your dog sitting money. Then I would, personally, I would insert myself into that situation. Okay, okay. And that's what we were thinking because, you know, it's really hard for me to have respect for people like that, that, you know, they are in a situation where they rely on everybody else to get them out of their problems.

Starting point is 00:03:19 They blame everybody else except for themselves. A lot of this is self-cause just based off their career choices that they've had. So it's hard for me to have respect. It's hard my wife to have respect as well. How long have you been worried? It'll be two years in February. Okay. Yeah, I'm going to take back what I said.

Starting point is 00:03:43 I would have your wife call, not you. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I think she, yeah, because here's the thing, if the two of you go over there at two years into this and insert yourself in this situation, you are changing the trajectory of the next 40 years.

Starting point is 00:04:03 Of course. Yep. It's not simply the situation. Yes. what you're describing is 100% disgusting. I'm not questioning that at all. And if they were abusing the children physically, we would just turn them over to children's services.

Starting point is 00:04:21 Right, yeah, that's not happening. It'd be that simple, because we're just not going to allow that to happen. They're just abusing them financially. And so I think, but I don't think your wife, your wife's, what, 20-something years old? Yeah, she's 23. Yeah. If she sits down with her mom and dad and says y'all need to stop this,

Starting point is 00:04:41 y'all need to become responsible adults, my guess is there's about a zero percent chance that that's going to have any impact. 110 percent. And if you show up saying, I don't respect you guys, they're going to take it out of their house. That's not going to help either. Of course. That's a 40-year long discussion. I'm trying to think, in other words, what will work is more what I'm thinking about.

Starting point is 00:05:04 Dave, tell me if I'm wrong. So my thought is when I say insert myself into that, it would. would be your wife calling mom and dad and saying, can we talk. And she's got to be careful because the backlash could come down on a 10-year-old, right? Yeah. But we just heard. Sorry. Go ahead.

Starting point is 00:05:24 In my idea at first was like, you know, my wife, I told her, I was like, what if you like take your mom out to coffee and be like, you know, mom, we've heard some of this stuff from, you know, my sisters. Like, how bad is it? Is it really? Is that really happening? Are y'all really that bad? Yeah. And is there ways we can help or is there ways we can support you or is there education? They may say absolutely not.

Starting point is 00:05:47 And then it's about giving your niece or your sister-in-law, if you will, a safe place that she always knows she's loved somewhere else. But she's going to have eight years of mom and dad borrowing money. Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, that's our fear because, you know, they're setting the kids up for just a lifelong. Yeah, but dude, dude, you're 25. you're 24. I would stay out of that for right now. Yeah, that's not. That's not. Okay.

Starting point is 00:06:12 That's actually not true either. It's a bad, it's a bad on-ramp to life, but it's not an ramp that can't be corrected. A lot of us have bad on-ramps. Yeah. And then we get the opportunity to meet Jesus and change our life. Okay. So then those kids have got the same thing. They're not being physically abused. Yeah. So let me refer. When I say insert myself, I don't mean you flex and put on a sleeve of shirt and go bang on the door. I think, I think, I think your wife, taking mom out for coffee, taking dad out and saying, hey, we just happen to hear this. I'm worried about y'all. And I'm worried about my sisters.

Starting point is 00:06:47 Yeah. How bad is it? Definitely. And then y'all too have a hard conversation about could you help, will you help, and all that? Because the next question is going to be, well, can we have $500? And y'all already have that predetermined discussion before she heads into that. No, go ahead and I'll give you the answer to that. No, because they're saying they're $10,000 short.

Starting point is 00:07:06 A month. So I'm not throwing good money after. bad. So we only give, Ramsey's only give into situations where we create a sustainable story. We don't throw money at something, $5 at something that's a $100 problem. That's not, so you're not creating a sustainable story then. You've got to fix the problem. You've got to get down under it. And so that's going to involve maybe what I would pay is for them to get with the Ramsey coach. And the Ramsey coach boxes her ears and says you have to sell the three cars. you guys, you cannot afford these stupid cars.

Starting point is 00:07:38 You can't afford to live in that house. Oh, maybe you need to get a job because your life, your business is not a business. It loses money. It's called a hobby. And so, no, we're going to have to, you know, these types of things are going on under the scene because if they're $10,000 short, the $1,000 from the $17 year old or the $400 from the 10 year old doesn't fix it. Nor does $500 from you fix it. So don't do that.

Starting point is 00:07:59 But do say, I'll cheer you on. I'll help you do a budget. I'll connect you with some people and pay for it for you to get some coaching to get yourself out of this. You've struggled with this your whole life. I've watched you. I'm your daughter. And, you know, I'd love for you to be free from these demons. And you and I have talked about this before on the air, but parents don't like hearing money advice. So if she sits down and says, y'all need to start, that's not going to go well. But that idea of sitting down saying, hey, I'm worried about you. How bad is it?

Starting point is 00:08:30 Are y'all okay? And then tell them your story. That's a different avenue. Yeah, we are on a budget and it's giving us great peace. We have sold some stuff to be able to get our income in line with our outgo. And it's given us great peace. And if I could ever help you, we get with our coach, we'll show you how to do that. That kind of thing.

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Starting point is 00:09:47 vary by location, product availability, and the market. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host, Ann is with us in New Orleans. Hi, Ann, how are you? Hello, I'm fine. Thank you so much for taking my call. Our honor, how can we help? Okay, my question is, my husband and I, my ex-husband and I,

Starting point is 00:10:27 were a co-signer on my son's condo back in 2004. and since that time, my son is unable to pay his mortgage because he's unemployed. He lost his job. Since 2004? No, no, no. He purchased the condo in 2004. This past April, he lost his job and he's been unable to pay the mortgage. How many times did you pay it since 2004?

Starting point is 00:11:00 Oh, it's happened before about 10 years ago. He ran into trouble paying his mortgage, and he was able to do a forbearance. And, of course, I assisted financially at that time. And you keep using the word unable. Is he unable or is he unwilling? Now, why do you not have a job since April? One of my best friends in the world is a paraplegic. He is unable.

Starting point is 00:11:23 No, no. He's physically capable. Okay. He has not, and he has not found a job since April. He says he's looking. One of the hottest. He can't bond a job. On the hottest hiring markets in human history.

Starting point is 00:11:36 He's chosen not to work. I guess so. Okay. Let's use, I just want to be, I just want to call a spade a spade because it helps us make decisions, right? Yeah. Now, yeah, understand. You're still on the mortgage. Yes.

Starting point is 00:11:51 My ex-husband and I are co-signer, so we're responsible for paying the note if he does not. And he's not been paying it. Yes. So I have been paying. it since April. My ex-husband made about three of the mortgage payments. So now I want to know what would be the best avenue for me to convince my son to sell it, let it go for foreclosure, and I told him, or else you get a job and you pick up the payment. But I don't want it to go forclosure because I don't want it to affect my credit. My credit rating is $820. Every time it's

Starting point is 00:12:33 paid late it affects your credit. Yes, I understand. So I just don't know if there's any options for me. Is he on the note at all? Is he on the note? My son is the owner of it. Yeah, he's on the note. She's the coach signer, yeah.

Starting point is 00:12:52 You can't force him to sell it. You can just talk him into selling it. Will he sell it if you tell him to? No, he's dragging his feet about that. Yeah, no kidding. Well, he's dragging his feet because he knows you're going to pay. For 20 years, you bail them out. Yes, I understand that.

Starting point is 00:13:08 And you've probably given him some stern talking to over the last 20 years. Yes, I have. You still paid it. So, yeah, he's dragging his feet because you taught him how to. I think you have to sit on and say, I'm not paying this rent. Dave, I'll leave it to you. I mean, it's going to ruin your... Yeah, you're going to get foreclosed on if he gets foreclosed.

Starting point is 00:13:26 Yeah. That's how this works. Can you afford to buy him out? I could. but I just don't know what my best options are because if I buy, if he would sell me the condo, then it's mine, right, for me to do what I want with it. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:13:46 And then you just sell it. Then you sell it and resell it and get your money back out and at least that way you didn't lose anything. Yeah, you can just say, all right, let's give it a praise, I'm going to buy it from you and then you put it on the market and sell it. that's what's best for you. That is unbelievably aggravating, and it's not necessarily what's best for him.

Starting point is 00:14:11 What's best for him is to experience some pain. But he's not going to in this scenario unless you do. That's the problem with cosigning. You get to experience the pain with him. And he's going to play chicken with you, and you've got a lot more to lose than he does financially, right? Yes, I do. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:31 What's the condo worth? Maybe about 40,000. Worth? Forty-five. No, I would, well, he would be lucky if he could get 60 for it. Oh, my God. What do you owe on it? 30.

Starting point is 00:14:49 Okay. And he's got 11 more years. Okay. Go tell him that, you know, he can no longer screw up your life with his laziness. He needs to sell you this condo. even if you buy it for whatever have a real estate agent give you an appraisal buy it for that amount put it back on the market and resell it and he needs to move okay yeah that protects you i'm for some reason i thought this was a 600 000 condo it's a 60 000 yeah just you can you're you're you're

Starting point is 00:15:21 you may lose a couple thousand bucks here or there by moving all this gyration around but you need to get out of this trap you put yourself in and the trap is cosigning you can't get out of the trap. You're either going to be an enabler or you're not going to pay and then he's going to get foreclosed on, which means you're going to have a foreclosure on you. And then they're going to come around looking for all of you, wanting some money out of y'all because the condo won't bring enough at repo to even cover the old mortgage on it. But it's a piece of crap condo to start with. And Ann? And, Ann, will you forgive yourself for the divorce? Finally?

Starting point is 00:15:59 Yeah. Yes. You're still trying to make that right with him. Stop. It's 20 years. Yes. You're going to lose some money, but you're also going to lose your relationship with your son. It's not worth it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:16:15 I would buy it from him, have him move out, and turn around, put it right back on the market and sell it. And if you lose a little bit that way, that gets you out of this trap. And then you have a standalone relationship with your son. That's mother's son that is no longer cosigner. Because cosigner is putting a strain on every. everything. It's making you do things you don't feel good about. And it makes you resent your son. Every time that phone rings, you feel your chest tighten up because what's he going to ask? It's altered your relationship. What's he going to ask for now? Yeah. This time, because you're aggravated

Starting point is 00:16:48 with him like we are for being lazy, not working since April. My God, how much does it take to pay the condo note on 30,000 bucks? I mean, you can, you can do like do Uber one day a month and pull this off. This is about the laziest human I've run into. That's pretty rough. I mean, really. Yeah. Think about it. I mean, it's not like it's a lot of money.

Starting point is 00:17:09 I don't even know how the boy's eating. Oh, yeah, I do. Ann. Yeah, Ann's making sure he's got groceries. Yeah. So, Ann, you got to stop it. It's time. You put him on, put him out and let him figure out how to do life and just love him

Starting point is 00:17:22 from a distance that doesn't include your checkbook for the rest of his life. And that's the biggest favor you can do him and yourself. And moms and dads out there never. ever co-signed. It's not an act of love. It's not. It's the ultimate enabling and it locks you into enabling because out of self-preservation, you have to cover the stupidity of the other party.

Starting point is 00:17:49 What about this, Dave? I'm trying to think of how this situation for her could go wrong. Is there a moment when, and again, I know I'm speaking in ratios here, but $50,000 against what Ann has is not a lot of money. can she buy this thing and hand it over to him and dust her hands off walk away is that too much enabling i wouldn't do that no yeah no i think i think it's i think he's not going to move is what i'm there he's not going to sell it to his mom yeah well then i would just take the pain of being foreclosed on you would i just stop okay you either going to sell it to me or uh the days of me giving you money

Starting point is 00:18:26 are done they're over that and that's what i'm getting yeah either you're going to either you're You're going to sell this to me or you're going to have to figure it out. Okay. I'm done. Okay. Because that's, this is so bad for him. Yeah. She's stunned his emotional growth.

Starting point is 00:18:40 I mean, he's six years freaking old. Yeah. You can't get a job since April to pay condo notes on 30,000 bucks. This is lame. Yeah. This is really a lame boy. Especially when we talked to elementary school teachers trapped in a New York apartment during COVID who pay off six figures because they drive and scratch and claw and flip and do whatever

Starting point is 00:19:00 got to do. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's tough, man. It could sell enough clothing out of his closet. Plasma. Yeah, it's just, it's just not any money.

Starting point is 00:19:10 So, yeah, honey, you got it. You got to get him free of you and you got to get free of him in order to have a decent relationship with him and in order for him to ever be a real man. And it's going to cost you that precious 820 that you're really, you're really proud of. It's going to cost you that. Who cares? Let that stupid thing go. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:19:28 Oh, my gosh. Now, condo's never been late. She's paid it on time every time. It's never been late. It wouldn't be 8.20. This is the Ramsey Show. Running a business is already complicated. You don't have time to become a health insurance expert, too.

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Starting point is 00:20:32 I've worked with them for over two decades and they're the only Ramsey trusted health insurance advisors. So get clear on your options and talk to a real person who can help you make confident decisions about your health coverage. Go to health trustfinancial.com today. That's health trustfinancial.com. Dr. John Deloney-Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Judy is in Los Angeles. Hi, Judy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. I am a longtime listener. And first-time caller. Okay. I'm on baby step six, and I listen to your show all the time,

Starting point is 00:21:30 and you recommend never to co-sign for someone. Correct. But I'm in the situation. What I do want to co-sign for somebody under a certain circumstance. So my husband's cousin, first cousin, she's been on Section 8. Anyway, she lost that. Now she's in her 60s. She needs to get an apartment.

Starting point is 00:21:51 there is a special needs trust that her parents have set up for her and in order for her to get into an apartment she needs to have someone co-sign or her brother who is the trustee refused to do so and i was wondering warning warning warning why would her brother who loves her more than you do he's her brother for God's sakes, not want to co-sign. He doesn't love her. Oh, Paul. He doesn't mind if she goes home. Yes, no, that's true.

Starting point is 00:22:24 I don't believe it. It's totally true. It's from a very dysfunctional family. He's not willing. His wife is telling me he's willing to let her go homeless if they have to. There is more to this story than you are telling or believing. Well, she has a problem. She has personality disorder.

Starting point is 00:22:43 Oh, okay. Yeah, that's right. Okay. She's in her 60s. She's never worked in her life. Uh-huh. Section 8. She lost that.

Starting point is 00:22:53 Who is the custodian of this of the special needs trust? Our brother. Her brother. So will you have access to the funds for this apartment? Or does she have access to the funds? Right. So what I'm going to ask, if it's okay, if that works, if you agree, that's just the, you know, right thing for me to do.

Starting point is 00:23:11 No, it's not. So I can try to ask the brother for 14 months of pay. in an account to me and then I will transfer that to her monthly. Is that okay? If funding is available for a whole year, is it safe for me to co-sign? I wouldn't. What if she trashes the place? She won't trash the place, but she might, you know,

Starting point is 00:23:32 no, she's not like that, but she will, she might have trouble with neighbors. That's the kind of problem she has. Or it gets kicked out or has four people over or gets sweet talked into it. people over, she'll just like, she loves cats, she'll probably, you know, take care of. Break all the rules. Rules don't apply to her. Rules don't apply to her. Yeah. And Judy, we're going to tell you, no, if this money's available, then she can get the apartment under her name. You can write the checks every month for her. If she can't do that, that's fine. But you don't need a co-sign. But how do I prove to the apartment people that there's money available?

Starting point is 00:24:11 Well, you would have to have the money available. Yeah, print off a statement. Yeah. And I show, did I show them? What do I do? Because we're in California. There's a lot of these places, and I don't live in the same town as she does. So it's not easy for me to, like, take her somewhere and talk to somewhere, you know. Well, you get on the phone with the apartment manager and you say, this is what's going on.

Starting point is 00:24:31 She has a special needs trust. The brother's going to send you documentation. He's going to end the documentation, send it to the property manager and say, we'll set aside the first 14 months and go ahead and just prepay the rent for 14 months. That's fine, too. Oh, just prepay. Yeah, but you don't co-sign. And they're going to try to get you to cosign. Because you have a blind spot here, kiddo.

Starting point is 00:24:54 This lady is, she's gotten a hold of your heart, and she's sweet, and she does need someone to help her, but we need to define help very carefully. Help involves her behaving, and you're not willing to make that requirement, nor can you make that guarantee based on her 60 years of misbehavior. Right. You're going to get screwed if you do this. Please don't do it. Okay.

Starting point is 00:25:21 It's going to go up in flames. Okay. So I told the apartment that I have money, but I need to show some proof, right, with the trust. Yeah. The brother's going to have to send documentation. Yeah. And by the way, you don't have this money, Judy. You still have to go through a guy that you say doesn't even love her, doesn't care about her, doesn't care if she ends up on the street.

Starting point is 00:25:40 Right? Right. So all of this is like two hypotheticals removed from reality. And let me help you with this, okay? It's not that he doesn't love her. It's from the 16 times he tried to help her, and it burned him. And he's done being burned, so he's putting up a boundary. That's different than not loving.

Starting point is 00:25:59 And you're calling it not love in a dysfunctional family. I'm calling her a dysfunctional person who needs love and help, but has burned everything around her to the ground to the point her own brother won't help her. You can't put that on him. I'm not going to let you do it. I don't even know him. And I'm not going to let, he's not the jerk in this story. Okay?

Starting point is 00:26:22 And there's not a jerk in this story. There's a sad lady with mental illness, and you're going to get burned to the ground when her mental illness activates if you're signed on the documents. Yeah, I don't sign. I don't know an apartment complex. It won't take your check if you got it. So if they won't take your money.

Starting point is 00:26:38 So she can get her own place. Listen, I'm a landlord. If I know what's going on here, I'm not putting her in there. That's fair. Because prepaying the rent ain't half my problem. It's the 93 cats that end up in my building. Right, or all the neighbors or whatever. Or she burns the neighbor's cat live in the front yard.

Starting point is 00:26:53 I don't know what's going to happen here. I don't know. I don't know what's going on with her. No, I don't want her as a tenant under any circumstances. Co-signer, prepaid, double-paid. No, thank you. Life's too short to sign up for drama as a landlord. So that's what you're going to face, hon, more than anything else.

Starting point is 00:27:10 So please, honey, don't confuse this. And you're trying to do a nice, good, noble thing in a really naive and unwise way. That was kind. That was the best way to say it. And I think this is a bigger conversation, Dave. When you want to help somebody and you get all these scenarios in your mind and then you spend all these nights and weeks worrying about it, all of this phone call could have been already headed off. You could have already sat down with your brother.

Starting point is 00:27:39 You could have already called an apartment complex and taken all these worrying very. variables off the table so that you know, okay, here's the final step here. And you probably would have found out a long time ago. You either don't need to be a cosigner or nobody's going to let her to live there. You're going to have to come up with another option. Right. But there's always like, well, then I might do this. And then after that, I'm going to do this. You don't even know if all this is going to happen. And you're so spun up about it. Just go find out. I find out. I co-signed for stuff when I was young and foolish and I ended up paying it. One poor guy co-signed for me. I went bankrupt. He ended up paying it. I had to go back and

Starting point is 00:28:11 pay him later. His wife still don't like me. Yeah. 35 years later. So it's okay. It's valid. I mean, she got screwed. They didn't ultimately get it. But I mean, she thought she did. And so I get it. I completely get it. Proverbs 1718 says in the scripture, one lacking in sense, cosigns for another. When I co-signed, Judy, I was lacking in sense. If you co-signed this, the Bible says you're lacking in sense. I didn't say I get mad at God. Don't do it. I wasn't that was that was pretty good I mean you kind of brought the Bible out so there you go there we go brought the Bible out yeah that's the final right that's the final one that's the one open phones at triple 825 5225 Kim is in New York hi Kim how are you

Starting point is 00:28:54 hi thank you for taking my call sure what's up so I wanted to know how to save money for a mortgage down payment while you're paying the right very hard it is yeah How much debt have you got? I can go through the numbers and I can sell you. No, just how much debt have you got? Just give me the total. I want to say about $40,000. How much of that's your car? Well, to me, my husband's together, it's about, he owes, I owe 16 and he owes about $20.

Starting point is 00:29:33 Okay. How much is the car? My car total with the insurance, insurance or just the car? No, the debt on the car. How much debt is on the car? About 16. Okay. Of your 40.

Starting point is 00:29:48 Yeah, of your 40. So half of it is your car. Okay. So here's the simple answer, but it's not a simple answer, is when you don't have any debt payments, you'll have more room in your budget. So before you start worrying about saving for a down payment on a house, let's clear the debt off. That may mean selling a car. It may mean taking an extra job.

Starting point is 00:30:08 It will mean not eating out. It will mean not going on vacation so that I can get out of debt. Because if you didn't have any payments, oh, you'd have money to save for your down payment. That's where it comes from. Your most powerful wealth-building tool is your income. Don't give it to somebody else. And then you'll have it to save for a down payment. Simple but hard.

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Starting point is 00:31:20 No price hikes, no contracts, no nonsense. Just reliable service that keeps your phone bill low and your holiday spirits high. high. So stop stressing over your budget and start saving instead. Go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey and unwrap the savings today. That's boostmobile.com slash Ramsey. Restrictions apply. See Boostmobile.com slash Ramsey for details. Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at AAA 8255-225. Patrickson, Fort Worth. Hi, Patrick. How are you? I'm doing good, Dave. Good. How can I help? Hey, I've got a question. I've got a question. I've got a patent pending on.

Starting point is 00:32:21 a mobile application and I'm wanting to raise funds to get my MVP off the ground, right? And I've had a friend of mine in and offered to give me a loan to do this, but I've been listening to you since I was 12 years old. Lost everything last year in a divorce, literally everything. and I'm wanting to go back up, but I don't want to give up my entire percentage of my company and getting with a traditional investor, and I really don't have access to traditional investors. So I'm just kind of curious because it's kind of hard to crowd fund with a patent pending also. So I'm just kind of curious what you might have on that. Okay.

Starting point is 00:33:12 So remind me again what the patent is on. Okay, it's on a mobile application. A mobile application. Like a phone application. Like a phone app. Like an app for your phone. And why do you have to have a patent for a phone app? Well, it's just something new that is, well, I mean, it's a...

Starting point is 00:33:38 I mean, you're going to put it in the Apple store, and you're going to put it in the Google Play store, and people are going to download it onto their phone, right? Right. But it's a new and novel idea that nobody has ever put into play before. I mean, I literally don't need a patent for that. Is it a copyright? You don't need a patent for that. No, no, he told me I couldn't copyright it, but basically it would make it to where that somebody else couldn't redo that app. They couldn't make a, they couldn't make another, you know, because they're, you can, I've started the process to patent a process in the app. Okay, so, all right, stop. Okay, so how much are you supposed to,

Starting point is 00:34:15 pending to get the patent pending? So that's already, I've already paid that. Oh, okay, so you're done. I've already paid that. Okay, so you've got, so why do you need money to launch something in the Apple store? It doesn't cost anything. Well, well, the, in order to get the, in order to get the, um, the actual application built, the MVP, the minimum viable products, and to build that.

Starting point is 00:34:41 Oh, you've not built the app yet. No, I just have the patent pending. The idea or the technology? No, the technology is not done. It's not. Okay, are you not a programmer? You're not an engineer? I'm not.

Starting point is 00:34:57 No, no. I've been among since I was 16 years old. I bought my first business at 24. I bought and sold several different businesses. I mean, I've, but I lost everything last year and I'm just starting over. Okay, so all you need is the engineering done. Right. You need a software engineer, right?

Starting point is 00:35:19 Mm-hmm. So what's it going to cost to turn this idea into an app? The lowest quote I've got is around $24,000, $25,000. Okay. You know, we've built a bunch of apps here. We've got apps all in the store. I mean, I've put them up, taking them down. We've got a little thing called the every dollar app that we've got a lot more

Starting point is 00:35:47 than that invested in, obviously, but we've also got, you know, tens of millions of people in it and all that. But even out of the gate, we had more than that in it. So I'm just trying to think how we would do it, because I don't borrow money and I don't bring in outside of investors. You know that. You said you've been listening. I don't want to give up. I wouldn't do it. I, you know, what I would do. I mean, he even told me he would get it to me at 5%. No. No. No. Don't take money from you for you. No. What part of no? You've been listening to us. You knew I was going to tell you not to do any of this. What's your panic?

Starting point is 00:36:22 Like what's the, you feel panicked? Are you about to get beat to market or something? If you hold a patent, can't you exhale and go earn $30,000? Well, the thing is, is, yes, I have probably eight to nine months left of the status. My lawyer, he wants to do a non-provisional, which is potentially going to be 20 years protected, right? My uncle was an engineer, not in mobile stuff, but that's how he made his money. He invented like one of the largest crafts and factories in the United States. And I've run by the seat of my pants and business.

Starting point is 00:36:53 What do you, what do you, yeah, I know I can tell. What do you, do you have a job? Yeah, I'm a truck driver. So I've always, I've got my CDL and I've bought and sold three different semi-trcks, but I lost almost $400,000 income last year during the divorce. And I was paying $3,000 a month in child support. And it just ate me alive. And I did have $15,000 in debt in that, but I've...

Starting point is 00:37:21 Okay, let me stop you. All right. Here, there's something in this situation that smells to high heaven of desperation. Like, you sound so desperate. You called it an application when you're talking to us. And it's not, it's a phone app, for God's sakes. This is not rocket search. Right.

Starting point is 00:37:40 And so, and you sound so in a hurry and so chaotic and so desperate. And all of those things tell me you're getting... ready to do something really stupid because every time i get that sound in my voice like a beagle chasing a rabbit that's about the time i'm about to do something dumb and i i can hear it on you i'm just being honest with you all right so what i would tell you to do what i would tell you to do is this i would tell you to slow your butt down take a breath okay that's what i'm going to tell you to do and then if you want to proceed with this the only idea that comes to mind structurally on how to pull this off is to find a good software engineer and tell them you will pay them double their rate

Starting point is 00:38:24 out of the proceeds. And so if this thing is really a big deal, okay, you know, it's $24,000 for the stuff. I'm going to pay you $48,000, the first $48,000 that we make on this, I'm going to pay you out, and I'm going to pay you double. And then they're done. And the problem is, as soon as you get the thing up, and here's what I'll teach you about apps, they're not one and done. You can't ship it and forget it.

Starting point is 00:38:57 100% of apps that go out that are successful are constantly being worked on and iterated. The negative thing about digital is you have to constantly work on it. The great thing about digital is you get to constantly make it better. So you're not frozen. And when I print a book, it's either good or bad. I'm stuck with it. It's on the shelf for the next 40 years. It's a printed book.

Starting point is 00:39:22 When I put something out in the digital world, I can change it tomorrow, and I can change it the next day, and I can change it the next day and make it better as I go along. And I will. And so the every dollar budgeting app does not even resemble the app that was launched under the name every dollar originally. It has iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded almost every other week for years. And so your software engineering costs have just begun, my friend, if this is actually going to work and be successful. Your patent stuff is probably early and tremendous overkill. You know, the number of times that people steal something on an Apple store is just not that big.

Starting point is 00:40:09 It doesn't happen much except the Chinese steal and stuff, right, and duplicating it. But I mean, I'm talking about the number of times that someone just comes in and scarfs up an idea that because you didn't have it patented um so you know it's you know i don't i'm pretty sure none of the budgeting apps out there that are the top budgeting apps are patented just to give you an idea and of course here's the other thing as soon as you patent it you're going to iterate it and change it so then you got to update the dad gum yeah this is i don't know i i so yeah i do know i would slow down breathe. If you want to involve a software engineer and pay them 1.5 or pay them 2.0 what they're worth, but they only get paid out of the proceeds. And if there are never any proceeds, they get nothing.

Starting point is 00:40:56 If it never works, they put in their money for nothing. If they want to join the venture for some extra money, that might be a way to draw somebody in. But the other thing you could do is you just could go make some money like John said and then just write somebody a check to have the first round of software engineering done. But be prepared. As soon as you start making a little money, you're going to spend most of that back into new software engineering because you're going to upgrade and iterate. Upgrade and iterate. You do not ship it and forget it in the digital world, my friend. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. The holidays are here, which means family time and giving back and remembering what the season is all about. And let's be real,

Starting point is 00:42:10 it also means shopping. Y'all, if you're anything like me, December gets really busy and really expensive. It's harder to stay intentional with your spending. And that's why I love shopping on Amazon, especially this time of year. Named the lowest priced U.S. online retailer for nine years running by Profitero, a third-party analytics and research firm. Amazon's prices are up to 14% lower across top categories and beat competitors by up to 5% in key gift categories. Between amazing deals, stress-free shopping, and fast shipping, Amazon makes gift-giving simpler,

Starting point is 00:42:47 the holiday season a little brighter and helps me keep my budget in check. That allows me to get back to enjoying the season. What more can a busy mall mask for? So for more information about Amazon's low prices and easy affordable holiday shopping, head to Amazon today. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Dr. John Deloney, number one person, number one bestselling author. I'm the number one person, Dave.

Starting point is 00:43:26 I'll take it. take it. Yeah, you're all of that. And number one show on the Ramsey Networks, not really, but a big show on the Ramsey Networks. He's number one everywhere in his mind. So check it all out. He's here to help me this hour since my mouth is apparently not working. Open phones at AAA 825-225. Thomas is in South Dakota. Help us, Thomas. What's up? Hey, Dave. Hey, John. What's going on? I'm calling today because I'm 18 years active duty military. Thank you. Unfortunately, thank you. Unfortunately, a couple years ago, life happened, and I ended up getting divorced.

Starting point is 00:44:03 With that, before we got divorced, my ex-wife and I, we were completely debt-free, and I was able to contribute 60% of my income towards investments. Holy! 40% was going to my TSP, and another 20% was going to my kids' college funds. Wow. But now that I'm divorced, I've been divorced now for two years. I have found myself accumulating a little bit of debt. I'm back at $57,000 worth of debt.

Starting point is 00:44:30 What in the world? What did you buy in two years? So I bought a vehicle. Oh. What kind of truck is it? It's a Ford Raptor. Well, I think we found the problem, Thomas. It's definitely part of it.

Starting point is 00:44:53 No, it's the whole thing. It's all of it. Taylor Swift wrote a song about it. It's your divorce raptor truck. We know what it is. It's called I'm the problem. It's me. So I'm calling because I can pay this debt off pretty quickly.

Starting point is 00:45:07 What do you make? $78,000 a year. You make $78 a year. And you owe what on the Raptor? I owe 57. Yeah. Well, I owe 37 on the Raptor in $18,000 in credit card debt that I used to purchase furniture and stuff for the house. I got divorced.

Starting point is 00:45:25 Okay. I still contribute the 60% of my income towards my TSP. You can't afford to do that for broke. So I was thinking, so my philosophy here and what I was looking for is some guidance. I was thinking about cutting off my TSP. However, in the divorce, my ex-wife decided to go ahead, hey, your whole military pension is yours. I just want half the TSP. I've still been contributing because in my head I was like, I'd rather make a little bit more money on the back end versus stop contributing altogether.

Starting point is 00:46:02 and out of spite, just not contribute because I don't want her to get it. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, when does she get half now? 67. What? No, I meant. That's not possible. Is this divorce isn't final, is it? It is, yes, sir.

Starting point is 00:46:24 So when we went to court, there was, I had several different options that I could do. And you agreed to give her half of your TSP at age 67? Yes. Not what half of it becomes by then, but whatever's in there it has. That's not right. Something's wrong. Based off what the lawyers were saying and stuff, they said that was the better of the deal. Apparently these lawyers didn't take math class.

Starting point is 00:46:54 That's a horrible deal. All right, so you need to get clarification because I don't think you understand what really happened, or you got the worst deal in the history of divorces. I've never heard of this deal. This is what you got. It is normal for you to transfer half of your TSP to her now. That is a normal process and a divorce, and she can roll that into an IRA and have no taxes.

Starting point is 00:47:22 It is very strange for her to get anything at age 67. Like, I've never heard of this in 35 years of doing what I do. That's strange. What they wanted to do was she would get half of my military pension on top of half of the TSP. Yeah, that would be normal. But half the TSP today, not at 67. Well, now with the deal that they had worked out was she doesn't get any of the military pension, she only get the TSP.

Starting point is 00:47:53 Okay. Now, or at 67? At 67 when it matures. Okay. then it should be half what half like your half of your t s how much is in your tsp today uh 166 okay so half would be 80 84000 83 000 okay right yeah today so whatever 83 000 grows to at age 67 she should get but she shouldn't get half of everything you put in between now and then because otherwise you would put in nothing between now and then.

Starting point is 00:48:30 Right. So that was going to be my next question is if I just stop contributing altogether. You have to contribute. Listen, if you did the worst deal in divorce history and she gets half of your TSP regardless of whether you put money in or not, that's the worst deal I've ever heard of in my life. I've never even heard of you get half at 67. That's just very weird, dude. Like these lawyers are completely freaking incompetent weird.

Starting point is 00:49:00 okay but if you did do that you need to go back and clarify is it what half of it today becomes what 83,000 becomes at 67 or is it just half of whatever's in there? Because if it's half of whatever's in there, you don't put another dime in it, you're done with that. You've got to go put money in Roth IRA and you've got to put money in other stuff, but the TSP's off limits to you because she's going to take half of everything you put in there for the next You know, how old are you? I'm 36. Yeah, good God, for 30 years.

Starting point is 00:49:38 You're going to contribute to her. No, thank you. You did the worst deal ever. So, no, we're not doing that. That's dumb. That's dumber than a rock, man. I'm telling you that. I'm so pissed at your lawyer right now.

Starting point is 00:49:51 I can't see. I want to smack him. This is horrible. But you did the deal. I guess it's final. So you need to go back and get clarity. If she gets what half, what 83,000 becomes, or if she gets half of whatever's in there.

Starting point is 00:50:05 It's going to be whatever's in there. Otherwise, they would have just transferred the 83 out. They should have just transferred the 83 out. That's what they should have done. That would be normal instead of this dumb butt thing they did. Yeah, John is correct. It is whatever's in there later because I tried to fight and get the half now, but then there were like what.

Starting point is 00:50:23 Then here's what it is. She gets what that half becomes because it's not going to become anything else because you're not going to have anything else to do it. You're stupid if you do. but you are the one that signed this divorce degree also so oh my god this is a horrible man she has 30 year claim on future earnings for you jeez man you'll have kids we have two of them i've heard i've heard a few of them this is i want to get away from this woman really bad is what this is i've heard i've heard in a rightfully so a future claim on

Starting point is 00:50:55 future earnings if you've got kids through the age of 18 right so if you were making 25 grand it's something you're making 150 grand that's child support That's not this. That's child support. That's normal. That's what I'm saying. I've heard of that. That's normal.

Starting point is 00:51:06 But half the 401k is normal. Half the TSP is normal. But you transfer it now and it rolls out into an IRA and then she does whatever she does with it. Okay. Your answer is you have a truck you can't afford that you bought while you're grieving your broken heart. And your heart was broken by your wife and your idiot attorney. So you have two reasons for a broken heart. So you've got to sell this truck, honey.

Starting point is 00:51:28 And I love Raptors. I drove one over here today. I like them. but this truck is brain damage. So it's killing you. You cannot afford to drive this truck. It's more truck than you can afford with the money you make. Sell your truck, get your budget back balanced, and move into the future.

Starting point is 00:51:45 And please don't put anything else in this TSP. The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed. Living on a budget, staying out of debt, and building wealth intentionally. Now, here's the deal. Most banks make their money when you're... don't do that. They're fine if you stay broke and frustrated. And that's why I recommend Fair Wins Credit Union. They actually want you to win with money. Their smart bundle gives you a no-fee checking account, a high-yield savings account, and the new Ramsey, Be Weird debit card

Starting point is 00:52:36 that says, dead as normal, be weird, right on the front. It's not just a card, it's a statement. Because every time you use it, it says you control your money. Your money, doesn't control you. So this year, stick to your plan, don't chase gimmicks or points, and partner with a credit union that helps you make progress in the baby steps. Visit fair wins.org slash Ramsey to take control of your money and stay weird. Fair wins is federally insured by the NCUA. Guys, student loan debt is an epidemic and defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse, but our question of the day sponsor, why refi refinances defaults. halted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay.

Starting point is 00:53:46 You'll have a payment you can afford with a low fixed interest rate and you couldn't get anywhere else. So go to y-refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Abigail in West Virginia. Abigail writes, my in-laws are too much to deal with, specifically my mother-in-law. Abigail, she knows you wrote this. I don't know how mother-in-laws know, they just know. She has to stick her nose into everything. She has a key to our house, which was bought by my husband before we got married.

Starting point is 00:54:25 She's folded our laundry, cleaned our house, and moved stuff while we were not at home. Oh, man. I've asked my husband to talk to her, but he told me he. couldn't do it and told me to chill out you don't have a mother-in-law problem you have a husband you have a husband problem he's a wuss god almighty that makes me so uncomfortable to think my mom would come over to our house my mom's amazing but my mom would come over and go through our unsolicited go through our stuff without your permission and even more uncomfortable as my wife said I need this to not happen again.

Starting point is 00:55:05 And I said, I can't do it. I can't do it. I'm scared of my mommy. Oh my gosh. Abigail, you have a husband problem. He needs to run down to Walmart on aisle three and pick up a backbone. Yeah, and some pamper's while he's there. Because he might tee-tie in his pants while he talks to mommy.

Starting point is 00:55:24 Y'all, I need to have this conference. I mean, this is awful. Yeah. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. This is awful. Mother-in-law is going to do what, here's the deal. I think if, and maybe she's controlling, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt. I think mother-in-law is trying to love her little baby the best she knows how.

Starting point is 00:55:40 She's trying to be helpful and she's screwed up. Yes. And she doesn't think you're loving him the right way, but she's not going to say anything. She's just going to keep doing it. And I think your cute little hubby is a gigantic 14-year-old. And he needs to grow up real, real quick. Yeah. So if you say a thing, you start a time.

Starting point is 00:56:02 you start a 10-year feud, you can't say a thing. The only thing you can do is encourage your husband to have a backbone. And this is out of line. There's no boundaries here. This is ridiculous, and it needs to stop yesterday. Tell him you want the locks changed, and you want him to talk, call his mother, and tell her to not come in your home without clearing it with both of you first.

Starting point is 00:56:32 that you're a married couple, and this is weird, and she shouldn't be doing this. Mom, we love you. Thank you for the help. You can't do this anymore. I've changed the locks. He's not good anymore, and you don't need to come in our home anymore. It's a real short, calm conversation, and he needs to man up and do that. If he cannot do that, you do not have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem, and you'll need to sit down with a marriage counselor. Correct. And by the way, to husband listening to this, you don't call your mom and say, My wife doesn't want you coming in the house to do longer anymore. Goober. You be a grownup and you say I.

Starting point is 00:57:08 I messed up. Leave and cleave. That's right. Leave your mother and father. We need to figure out how to do these things on our own. To your spouse. Golly, dude. And mother-in-laws, don't break into your kids' homes and do their laundry for them.

Starting point is 00:57:25 Unless there's like a medical crisis or a newborn and they've asked you for your help. Don't do that. Even if there's a newborn and they ask for your help, you still ask for me. mission. Yes. Oh, of course. But I mean, that's if you've been invited in. Show up with a key that you had before they were married. So one of the best practical jokes we ever played was a key. Have you heard this one? No. I had a personal assistant 25 years ago, beautiful Christian lady, and she got engaged. So for her engagement party, all the guys, we took her to an ice hockey game in Nashville,

Starting point is 00:58:02 and the announcer at the hockey game was a friend of mine. And so one of the guys in the office that was with us was about 10 guys went all throughout the whole section and handed every guy a key. Went to the hardware store and got keys. And the announcer said, Sheree is getting married next week. Anyone that has a key to her apartment needs to bring it to her. and like 500 guys got up and started bringing keys to her.

Starting point is 00:58:30 It was so it was such a wonderful practical joke. But yeah, that's much better than this one. This just makes me sad. Yeah, this is bad. And can I tell you this one thing? So one time a friend of mine, they were having some family stuff. And it was a couple friend of me and my one. And we've known them forever and ever and ever.

Starting point is 00:58:57 And they were going through some like just somebody who passed away or something. And I said, hey, let's get them a house cleaner just to come in and clean up. And my wife looked at me and said, are you crazy? So what do you mean? She said, you know what that would feel like to me if somebody came over to see us? And then they hired someone to come clean my house. Oh, it'd be like an insult. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:59:17 It'd be insult. And so I've got to say, mom coming over to clean the house and do the laundry is a little bit of a flex. right it's a little bit of a flex and so it's like cooking the lasagna it's like the recipe you got for lasagna you're not as good as my little boy the way he deserves to be taken care of I'll come over and help it kind of feels like Ray Romano's mom

Starting point is 00:59:37 it's like it's like your underwear was folded wrong that's yeah I'm sorry honey I'll do it for you yeah and so yeah husband should grow up mother-in-law flex this whole thing makes me feel uncomfortable Dave I never feel uncomfortable this one does this is like it's got it's got a little

Starting point is 00:59:53 stalker-esque. It does, man. She's got a key and she sneaks in like Keebler's elves or something and cooks and does the laundry. No, because this kind of mother-in-law leaves a note that says, hey, I noticed things were messy, so I cleaned up and I vacuumed. You'll have a great night. And it's just like a little. It's a total flex.

Starting point is 01:00:17 But if you say anything, it's like, oh, I was just trying to help. I'm so sorry. I won't help anymore. Yeah. Yeah, martyr out. The mortar out. She'll definitely marter out. The old, oh, okay.

Starting point is 01:00:31 There's some old dairy queen napkins in the glove box. I'll just eat those. Y'all just go eat wherever you want to. I'll just eat the old Kleenexes. And I'll just sit in the car and be cold. And when y'all get done, you'll just come out. It's that. Hey, I did run into a guy that, this opening a new food truck called wherever you want to go.

Starting point is 01:00:47 That's the genius. Because when everybody asks where they want to eat, it's wherever you want to go. Where you want to go. Okay, we're heading. We'll go. Right there. There used to be a great little honky talk in Lubbock, Texas, called the library. We'd be like, where you going?

Starting point is 01:00:58 I'm going to the library. All right. The honky talk. I love it. All right, boys and girls, boundaries are necessary. And I will admit that the hardest stage of parenting for me has been parenting children who are no longer in my control. It is the hardest stage to stay out of other. people's business that are grown-ups, even if they are from my flesh and blood. And so that does

Starting point is 01:01:29 not matter. And I don't have any major issues. It's not like any of them are doing anything extremely stupid or something, but still, just not telling grown-up people what they have to do with your dad voice. It requires a little bit of discipline. Yeah. Even today, my son is studying for his first round of high school finals. He's a freshman. And I know the science of studying. I know the pedagogy of studying. I have been a high school and a college teacher for my whole career. And he's got to go through this first round of finals studying the way his, he rolls his eyes. He says, Dad, I know. Okay. And it's hard because I want to go in there and say, this is what he's got to learn this time. And then next time we'll be able to speak from a place of, all right.

Starting point is 01:02:18 I need some help. Yeah. Show me how to do this. And it's hard. It's hard when your precious little Johnny's underwear isn't folded right. Mother-in-law. It's Abigail's husband now. Abigail.

Starting point is 01:02:29 Back up. Back up. Be cool. Be cool, man. She has to stick her nose into everything. It's the move stuff while we weren't home. That one's weird. Yeah, the came back, the furniture's rearranged.

Starting point is 01:02:44 It's kind of like misery. Yeah, it's what I was like. It's got a stalker-esque thing. to it. The penguin always faces Nora. This is the Ramsey show. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential, because it protects your family,

Starting point is 01:03:29 if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid, while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be

Starting point is 01:04:13 out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price, no pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 20, five years and so is my family. Don't wait. It's fast. It's easy and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-42-82. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. John Deloney-Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

Starting point is 01:04:57 I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is The Ramsey Show. The phone number is AAA-825-5-2-2-25. Thanks for hanging out with us. We appreciate you being here. If you want to help us out, we can use the help. We really can. Follow the show on the format or the platform that you're listening or watching. Click subscribe or click follow. It really helps our numbers big time.

Starting point is 01:05:23 And because it causes the show to be pushed forward with their algorithms and other people who don't know about it, hear about it. It's the best promotion we get. And also you share the show. A lot of these apps and platforms have a share button or a share feature. and you can just send an episode to somebody and let them watch it or listen to it. I was listening to a podcast this week. A friend of mine was on Tucker Carlson.

Starting point is 01:05:45 I said, hey, man, listen to this. And I sent it to another friend of mine, just like that. And Tucker's got a great podcast that's going big, it's going to Zoom, Zoom right now. And so on. So I listen to one of Joe Rogans that was going Zoom, Zoom is really good. I sent it. You know, just share it. You know, anytime you read a good book, Jack Carr's got a new book out.

Starting point is 01:06:02 The terminal list, I read every one of his. And so, yeah, I'm telling everybody, go get the new one. it's good. It's very cool. So Falcons brought me a copy of Jack's new book. Have you seen it? I saw that he signed it. And he shot it. Oh, I didn't see that. It's got a bullet hole in it. It's fabulous. If you don't know Jack, he was a former seal. And so these are all Navy SEAL books and they're like, you know, shoot them up, spy movie type stuff and they're great books, fiction, obviously. And yeah, but it has a bullet hole in it. It's amazing. I may want to do that with my next book. I think that would be fantastic. It has absolutely nothing to do with the book.

Starting point is 01:06:37 what she just does, but I still want to do it anyway. Yeah, that's pretty cool. All right, Kathy's in Philadelphia. Hi, Kathy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello. I'm calling today with a question I can hope, or I hope you guys can help me with.

Starting point is 01:06:52 My husband and I are considering putting in a solar array to offset our utility bill. And I was, I just wanted to, like, bounce the numbers off of you and see if it was a smart move with where we're at. Okay. currently. Okay. So Hubs and I are like between baby steps five and six I guess like we have a substantial amount of money in savings but we haven't earmarked that like specifically this is child A, this is child B, there's their college fund. They're pretty young yet three and five. We feel like we've got some time to. So you would pay cash for the solar. That's what we want to do. How much is it?

Starting point is 01:07:35 for the solar. The unit's about 53,000. Okay. And what is the, what's the break even on it? They say they have it calculated out and we looked at the numbers about eight years. We'd have it all back between like the ITC and our like state credits for Pennsylvania and SREC and those things. Okay. That's borderline. I usually look for a five to a seven year break even. And most of the time that you see that you're going to get that, it's going to be in an area of the country that is a lot of sun. So, I mean, like, you know, Phoenix, Arizona type of a thing, you're, you know, that kind of thing. You're not going to, it's a little different than Philly and not Seattle, you know, that kind of

Starting point is 01:08:21 stuff. So you just think about what you got. I don't know the technical parts. What I do know from the financial side is I've been doing this for 35 years. I've watched the solar panel efficiency as far as what's the break-even meaning what do you pay for it how quickly can it convert the energy how efficiently can it convert the energy thus how fast it saves you money I've watched the technology on that it's probably five or ten times better than it was 30 years ago it's really come a long long way it used to just be total crap and now it's like I actually

Starting point is 01:08:59 endorse solar companies in a couple of cities that we have talk radio on you know and i'm fine to do that as long i don't endorse financing it obviously um but um but generally i tell folks a five to a seven uh your eight is borderline what i might do is see if they're selling you some bells and whistles you could take off that would still get you they would get you down to the 40,000 range or so and that might get you to a six or a seven year break even maybe they got you um you know, with a convertible and power windows. I don't know, right? Right, right.

Starting point is 01:09:33 But, you know, check that out, learn about that. That's what I would do if I were in this situation. I'd run one more company, too. Have one more company come over and give a bid and see what they're saying. That's a good idea. Well, we ran two companies, and we actually have gotten from $75,000 down to $52,000, $53,000, by pitting them against each other. So we feel like kind of, that's about where, I mean, I could bring in a third company,

Starting point is 01:09:56 but I feel like at this point, you know, if we've come down $25,000. thousand almost that's a good start that's a good start they got some margin in that crap huh that's cool okay so i knew they were making bank but um uh yeah i'm a fan of the technology i'm not a fan of the you're not doing this but for the rest of you out there that they really try to force a payment plan on you and go look your payment is less than the amount you're going to save on your electric bill no that's dumb but stuff because the things are attached to your house and then you're you got a mess you got a lien on your property you got all kinds of mess no do not finance them ever do not finance anything ever you're listening to Dave Freak and

Starting point is 01:10:32 Ramsey okay so but the but you're not doing that but that's for everybody else the the technology has come a long long way I will tell you this Kathy I think it's gonna go a long way further so like if you sell your house in seven years or eight years probably what's attached to your house is crap okay it'd be like you got a seven-year-old computer or a seven-year-old cell phone, you know, how much further it's come along. That's the pace of change in the technology. And so don't think this is going to enhance the sale of your house.

Starting point is 01:11:13 It's probably cluttering the sale of your house a decade from today. That's why I want you to get a quick break-even on it, because it's just, you know, what is a seven-year-old computer? A doorstop. You know, that's what it is. You know, it's like, what? It has to boot up. You know, it's like, you know, where's the DOS?

Starting point is 01:11:30 What is this strange beach ball thing? You know, it's like, you know, so. I even handed one of our audio guys, an old iPod that I found and said, hey, I want to pull the music off of it because I don't let my son have a phone out in the wild. But I said, I want you to fill it with all country songs. And this, he looked at me like I had just handed him a box of fresh dog turds. Antiques. What is this? I don't know what to do with this thing.

Starting point is 01:11:56 Fresh dog turd. Yeah, that probably could have used a better analogy on your radio show, Dave. Our radio show. Our radio show. There we go. Thank you. But, yeah, it was strange. But, hey, he took it back and figured it out, man.

Starting point is 01:12:07 There you go. Well, because he's that guy. Alex is with us. Alex is in Tallahassee. Hi, Alex. How are you? Good. About yourself, Dave, and John.

Starting point is 01:12:17 Good. How can we help? Yeah. My wife and I have a little scenario. We currently have owned seven properties. One of them is my partner. and then six investments. Three of the investment properties are paid off,

Starting point is 01:12:33 and we've been discussing about maybe selling two properties, and selling two properties would pay off the remaining of the balance that I have on the four other properties that still have a mortgage on them. You'd be 100% debt-free. Thank you, it in my primary, yes, sir. I would do that. Right now. Today?

Starting point is 01:12:53 Yes. Yeah, today. Okay. I love real estate. I love real estate, Alex. but I like being debt-free more. I agree. And we were trying to hold on to the not-sale properties

Starting point is 01:13:03 and just add more to the portfolio just for our children in the future. You'll be able to do that because you won't have any payments. I see. How much you can stack cash with no payments to be able to buy the next one debt-free and buy the next one debt-free and by the next one debt-free? That's what I started doing about 20 years ago. And I've got quite a large amount of real estate now. I can ask one more quick question.

Starting point is 01:13:27 on the topic of real estate, on the property, once they're our paid off, would you recommend I continue to keep the homeowners insurance? Yes. Because I'm in Florida, and homeowners insurance is through the group. Well, it's not homeowners. It's fire an EC. It's not technically homeowners. Homeowners is for owner-occupied only, but fire an EC.

Starting point is 01:13:44 You know, you've got to run the analysis on it. I didn't think about you being in Florida. That's super expensive. You're right. Just run an analysis on it and go, how much of this pain am I willing to absorb? What happened if they all got wiped off the face of the earth? hurricane. What would you do? I wish you had insurance?

Starting point is 01:14:03 Maybe. I don't know. I run a worst case scenario through my emotional filters and see if I end up crying or not. This is the Ramsey show. Finally, mortgage rates have dropped, and you know what that means? People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window, but you've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage.

Starting point is 01:15:00 Their Homebuyer Edge program gives you peace of mind in a wild market. You can cap your rate for 90 days, so if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically. And get this, Churchill will even back your offer with a $10,000 seller guarantee. So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus, when you shop as a Churchill certified homebuyer, it's stronger than pre-approval. It makes you look like a cash buyer, which makes your offer rise to the top.

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Starting point is 01:16:10 Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, Personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at AAA 825-5-2-2-25. Corey is with us in Washington, D.C. Hi, Corey, how are you? Hi, I'm all thanks. How are you? Better than I deserve.

Starting point is 01:16:28 What's up? I am trying to figure out how to get out of a stuck situation. I'm living. I went through a divorce, which was a really terrible relationship, and jumped into my mother's home for the time being, which has been way too long now. And in the process, I came in to her home with $50,000 in credit card debt and a car loan, which I've since paid off. You paid off all the credit card debt and the car both?

Starting point is 01:17:01 Yes. Way to go. How long have you been there? I have been here for six years. Oh. So I've paid that off and I've saved. I went back to school all in that time and got a decent job and now make three-time the amount that I was when I first started my job.

Starting point is 01:17:20 Now make 118. Why are you still there? Because this market here, I started looking in 2020 for homes. I'd been outbid several times by like $40,000. How old are you? 45. Okay. Why have you not gone and just rendered something?

Starting point is 01:17:39 You're debt-free and you make $120,000 a year. You can rent something. Yeah, the rentals around here for a three-bedroom. I have three-bedroom. I have three-bedroom. It's about $3,000 a month. So at that point, I thought I was just throwing away money. My income has gone up each year pretty substantially.

Starting point is 01:17:59 So I keep feeling like I'm chasing the carrot. I get to like a point where I could potentially make it work. and then the rents go up and the mortgage, the prices on the houses go up, and, of course, the interest rates are up. So I feel like I can never just get a grasp on something that I can actually move comfortably into. So now I'm trying to figure out, do I just put everything on hold as far as trying to buy a home? No, the secret to happiness is lower expectations.

Starting point is 01:18:31 You're trying to move into a neighborhood in an area that your income does not allow you to do. Understood. You probably won't be able to catch that carrot. And I don't want you being 55 and living with your mother. I don't want your children graduate from high school living with their grandmother. Yeah, and that's the other thing. I have nothing saved up for them to go to school. Yeah, but the point is that you have painted yourself a world where you have decided

Starting point is 01:19:00 that you are trapped by housing prices and rental prices. Okay. And you're not. With, with, um, so I get paid byweekly, um, and I get paid about $2,600. Again, this, my, my income just went up in January. Um, I was getting paid several hundred less per month last year and a year before. Um, so with that, what can I afford? Because I keep looking at all these other bills. Um, and I, if I understood you right, you're debt free and you have How much saved?

Starting point is 01:19:39 About six. It's close to 60. And you make $118,000 a year and you have three children. Mm-hmm. Did I understand all of that right? Yes. And you did all of that in six years coming out of a broken, toxic, horrible marriage.

Starting point is 01:19:52 I'm so proud of you. And you've got a degree. You're freaking amazing. Well done. Thank you. You've really accomplished a lot here. And the thing I think I'm hearing, and I might be wrong, Corey, but I think I'm hearing that probably in the marriage and definitely with mom,

Starting point is 01:20:14 the home that you're living in, or both nicer than the home that you can afford now, and you're having trouble with that? Probably, yeah. I've definitely looked at lowering, you know, some of my living, you know, what I'm used to. Yeah. The home that your mom is in now, did you grow up in that home?

Starting point is 01:20:36 No. Okay. So the home you grew up in was not as nice as the home that you're currently staying in? No. And you're not damaged because of that. Yeah. I mean, this house is okay. It's not like fantastic or anything like that.

Starting point is 01:20:51 Could you afford to buy it if it was on the market? No. Okay. That's the point. Your childhood home, though, you might, and your children will not be damaged if they move into a home that's not something off of the real estate channel on, you know, being redone by Chip and Joanna, okay? So I want you to get your toe in the water in some kind of piece of real estate

Starting point is 01:21:14 and establish sustainability of your own life, whether that's an inexpensive rental and you have a little bit too far of a commute, or it's not a stellar piece of property that lines up with all of your wants, but does cover your needs. But I think you've set your, I think the reason you're chasing the carrot is, you set the carrot pretty far out on the stick. And I'm going to pull the carrot back in and grab a hold of it and take a bite out of it. I think it's probably both and it's moved the carrot out and the housing market has gotten

Starting point is 01:21:49 tough, especially in D.C. I'm not saying it's not tough. But I'm saying the way she can enter the market, making $120,000 a year with a $60,000 down payment is probably not. I mean, D.C. is super expensive. You're going to be outside of D.C. You're not buying a place. That's, that's it. You're not buying a place in D.C. proper.

Starting point is 01:22:05 you're not buying a place in L.A. or San Francisco, you know, that used to be when you made $100,000 a year, you'd made it, but not anymore. Right. And not with housing prices being what they are. And so you're in a market where your expectations of burst on, based on your fabulous progress that you've made. I'm very proud of you. But it may mean that you go somewhere else. And I, Dave, this is like a thing that I want to be emphatic about. There's going to be things you want to give your kids. Like she even mentioned, I don't even have any college savings.

Starting point is 01:22:43 I don't have this. I don't have this. Your kids can share a room. Your kids can put themselves through college. Your kids can do so much. What her kids have that I don't think she is recognized yet is they have a mom. There's a warrior.

Starting point is 01:22:55 Who is extraordinary. Yes. The greatest gift my parents gave me was not college. They didn't have the money to pay for college. It wasn't a car. It wasn't any of those things. It was, I had two parents that always scratched and clawed, and both of them had midlife career changes,

Starting point is 01:23:11 and I watched them flourish. And lo and behold, this opportunity came up when I had a career. And I had the courage to go do something else, and I had the work ethic and all the stuff. That's what she's given her kids, and it's not something you can buy. It's something you witness. And so go get a town home if that's all you can afford, and two of your kids can share rooms, and they're going to be fine because they've got an incredible mom who loves them, and they're watching you blaze a path.

Starting point is 01:23:35 that's the greatest gift you can give your kids. It just is. All the other stuff's gravy. The number of people that shared a bedroom with a sibling that ended up in counseling because of that alone is zero. There's a lot of kids. I'm telling you right now, I just had this conversation this weekend in Utah with the Behavior Services team.

Starting point is 01:23:53 There's a lot of people in counseling because they have never shared a room. They've never had to negotiate anything other than whatever they want whenever they want it. And then they go to college or then they get married in their whole, universe explodes because somebody else has a different opinion about something. Because somebody said, oh, the axis of the world does not run through the top of your little head. Who knew? I've talked to every residence hall director on planet Earth that I've ever met. And I've always asked them, just privately.

Starting point is 01:24:19 Shared rooms or single rooms. I've never had one say the right thing to do. Developmentally for a college kid is to share a room. I can't sell it anymore because these kids are coming from their own bedrooms and their own bathrooms and their own whirlpool tub. So I have to make these single ones. but if I was a king for a day you mean there's not a skylight everybody has to to share room can we get the sushi delivered to our dorm room no yes kids can share rooms they're so resilient especially when

Starting point is 01:24:46 you have a mom like that so yeah you've given them a gift Corey they can change schools it's it's okay it's okay you've given them a gift by stepping out of a horrible situation and then um standing knee deep in that manure and flourishing yeah it's amazing and using that as fertilizer and have grown and grown and grown and grown. I'm so proud of you. You're an amazing lady. I think your real estate is just, I think your problem is unrealistic expectations with your numbers. So that's going to mean you either, that you change probably the neighborhoods you've been looking in, whether it would be for buying or for renting. And it may be a long commute. It may mean a complete move. It may mean a lot of other things. And that's not to say,

Starting point is 01:25:30 I think that Washington, D.C. real estate's cheap. It's quite the opposite. It's basically crazy. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Open phones at AAA-825-5-225. Daniel's in New York City. Hi, Daniel. How are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey, a big fan of the show. Me and my girlfriend were both young. We'd like to start dating and move it. Well, sorry, sorry, we have been dating for four years and we'd like to move in together and potentially, well, we'd like to get married. I was just curious on what you thought were.

Starting point is 01:27:15 The data is not in your favor. Yeah, I'm aware. I've heard you guys read off the statistics before. I'm actually doing some research for a new marriage project, and they actually have the cohabitation. data longitudinally just for earned income. And something as simple as household income over time is less than those who are married. Not to mention the statistics around the relationship not making it over time. How long have you all been dating? Four years.

Starting point is 01:27:47 Four years? Why not just pull the trigger? What are waiting on? I would like to do it. My parents are advising against it. They're saying that we should live together for six months to a year, prior. I would like to do it. It's just that I'm also heeding their advice. How old are you? My parents. I'm 25, 26 in a month. Okay. So if you already have your, if you're a guy who's

Starting point is 01:28:11 going to listen to their parents, even if you disagree with them, why are you calling two strangers on a podcast? I was just curious what your guys' opinions was. You already knew. Yeah, you already knew what we were going to say. I started rattling off the data and you're like, yeah, I already knew that. Right. Um, we both think we're very, like, financially, uh, found. We've saved up a bunch of money. So I'm just serious if that changes anything or no. No. John, how old were you when you got married?

Starting point is 01:28:41 Me? Yeah, 24. Okay. I was 22. Yeah. I've been married 43 years. I'm 23 and a half. I think you can respect your parents and still disagree with them.

Starting point is 01:28:55 I do all the time. I love my parents to death. They're good people. I respect John and I disagree with him sometimes. Yeah. We disagree all the time. Not really. And I'm usually right.

Starting point is 01:29:06 Not really. Not really. Let me take it this. Are you calling us because you actually want to marry this girl? Yes, sir. Okay. At some point, you're going to have to say, as for me and my household. Your mom and dad no longer get to tell you what to do when you're a man and my son.

Starting point is 01:29:28 They can only advise you. Right. So my next question would be. And neither do podcast. Just get to tell you what to do. You still have to do what you want to do. Yes, sir. Understood.

Starting point is 01:29:39 So we've got about $6,000 saved up. I understand that you guys advise one month of income for engagement ring or rings. Oh. In our area for like New York City and Long Island, it's really expensive for rent. We've traveled to a few cities. We just, we're, other than like, we figure. you guys recommend the quarter of your income for living expenses can we permit up to like 35 percent where we are we're both in the hospitality and entry level

Starting point is 01:30:12 positions we graduated together with associates degrees okay well that's a completely different set of questions separate from what you called about right yes sir okay all right so um yes one month of your income is the maximum you should spend on a ring um and yes one-fourth of your take-home pay is the most you need to put into rent, not for household expenses, but into rent because you don't create a sustainable situation. You're short on money, your house poor when your rent is 35 or 40 or 50% regardless of where you live. So if your income is going to be going up like doubling in the next year and a half or two years and you take

Starting point is 01:30:56 on a little bit higher rent, then that doesn't kill you. But if you try to sit there and prosper for four years where your rent is 35% of your take-home, you've got a bad formula. It's not, you're going to struggle with that one. Oh, but they're in New York, so all rent's going to be free from no on. That they're going to be good. Yeah. No, too soon. Too soon.

Starting point is 01:31:17 Plus or minus the rats. Oh, yeah. Okay. And I'm not talking about the rodents, but yeah. Okay. Yeah, I don't know. It's, um, no, Daniel, um, the math still has to math, even in New York. and so, yeah, you've got to decide what you guys are going to do.

Starting point is 01:31:38 It may be if you're going to be in the hospitality business, if you can't move up quickly enough with your associate's degrees into sustainable incomes in a market that's that expensive, then you may need to be doing it somewhere else. That's a possibility, too. Lots of people leave areas they can't afford to live in. That's been, since time began, people have done that until they can afford to do it. And so, you know, and New York City being one of the more expensive cities in the world to live in.

Starting point is 01:32:09 So literally, New York, Tokyo, London, San Francisco. I mean, this is the list, right? Paris, these are very uber expensive to live in. Not just because they're recognizable major metro areas, but it's just stinking expensive, period. And so try renting a flat in London. That'll get your attention. Scott's in Montana. Let's go the other direction.

Starting point is 01:32:36 What's up, Scott? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. My wife and I, we are almost done with Baby Sub 2. I'm 49 years old. I was approached today at work to purchase a long-term care policy. Nursing home care.

Starting point is 01:32:58 Yeah, it says if you become chronically ill, lifetime benefit. term. You don't need it. You don't need it. That's what I was wondering. I was a little hesitant on that. What's the main? The main deal is this. Long-term care insurance is vital when you're 60 years old and above. The percentage likelihood of you using it prior to 60 is very close to zero. So we don't recommend buying it until you're 60. And if you're 60 and you've got $10 million, don't buy it. Just self-insure. Just pay for the nursing home or pay for in-home care or whatever you're going to do. Okay. But if you're, you know, you got 500 grand to your name and you're 60 years old, the nursing home is going to be 300 grand over three years. It's going to crack and scramble the nest egg. Typically the guy dies before the lady, 75% of the time. And so Papa goes in the nursing home, uses up all the money and then dies, leaves mama broke. That's the one 60 years old that needs long-term care insurance. You don't need it at 40. 49. 49. You don't need it until you're 60. I'm 65. I got plenty of money. I didn't

Starting point is 01:34:02 didn't buy it. That's where I was, I was a little hesitant. And I have a life insurance policy, you know, a term life that's done, I guess, until I'm, yeah, at 75 it ends. I also have insurance through, through the military. Should I be purchasing any other type of life insurance? You need about 10 to 12 times your income on you to cover your family if you die and that's taking care of your wife and kids when you're 75 the kids hopefully will be grown

Starting point is 01:34:37 and gone they'll be grown hopefully they'll be gone and so that's that's the game plan and you'll be out of debt and have some money and so you you're with some financial planning you outlive the need for life insurance long term but for right now yeah you do need some life insurance buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're hand-picked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramsysolutions.com slash agent. Ramsey solutions.com slash agent. So many years ago, we came up with this great

Starting point is 01:36:06 idea. There were these new things on your phones called an app, an application. So we decided that Ramsey should have an app that would do your budget. And we worked and we worked and we worked and we worked on it. And we developed really over the last decade or so the world's best budgeting app without a doubt. It's called every dollar. Because every dollar has an assignment by you. You assign every one of your dollars a place to go, give it a name. Well, what has ended up happening then is that over the last three or four years,

Starting point is 01:36:38 we've invested a bazillion dollars in programming and in brilliant digital minds inside this building that do things I can't even spell and have managed to integrate into it the whole Ramsey plan, the Ramsey way. So like you guys call in and ask us detailed, nuanced questions about what you do at this baby step, or what do I do there, what do I do there? And we've actually got almost all of that now answered inside of every dollar. the all new every dollar, we just relaunched it the other day. And it's a complete game changer.

Starting point is 01:37:16 You can watch the premiere on our YouTube channel and see it how it works in action. What happens is when you go in, if you've been there before, do it again. If you've never been, go now and get into the every dollar app because what happens in just the first 15 minutes or so, you're going to find thousands of dollars of margin. And then we're going to start showing you. you how to apply it using the Baby Steps Framework and the Ramsey Way, so to speak. And the Ramsey Way basically is we're going to take you from debt into wealth and generosity. Change your whole family tree.

Starting point is 01:37:51 We want you to get there. And so imagine how much you could find to put towards your money goals. The all new every dollar. It's here. Check it out. Jake is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Jake. How are you?

Starting point is 01:38:07 Good, guys. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So me and my wife were 24, fresh out of college a few years ago. So we decided to build a home, our forever home. And the cost kind of got out of control. Our parents stepped in. My parents stepped in.

Starting point is 01:38:24 Me and my wife, been blessed to have our parents' buyer's side. They actually followed your financial piece back in 2000. There's a different story behind that, but they're very, they've accumulated some vault over the years. They've handed us over a lump sum of money. to help us build this house. And whatever is left over, we will pay back in a mortgage payment to them. Me and my wife make about $130,000 a year before taxes with a commission bonus for myself at the end of the year. So my question is, and we do have a good amount of savings from the past years of working,

Starting point is 01:38:59 about $120,000 in savings. Okay, I'm sorry, if you have $120,000 in savings, why the flip did your parents have to give you money? They have been working so hard their whole life to set their kids up. And so they want to help every single one of their kids out. I'm one of three brothers. Yeah, but you may sound like you got in trouble and they bailed you out. Oh, no, no, no, no, sir, no, no, no, no. So what happened with the house?

Starting point is 01:39:24 You bought too much house? What's the deal with the house? Yeah, so we're building. Oh, you're still building? Yeah, we're still building. We're in the foundation phase right now. Oh, you just started building. Yes, so the deal was with them was we can,

Starting point is 01:39:37 collaborate with them. They can help out. I mean, we have a really good relationship with our parents. I work for them actually. And they wanted to, this is what they wanted to do for us. And so we kindly accepted it. And any cost after their initial lump sum that they handed over, we would pay back to them in a mortgage. And so I guess my question is, is me and my wife are still young. We're 24. We're not thinking my kids right now. Do we give up a lot of that savings that we have straight back to them at the beginning or do we have some of that keep most of it and travel and have fun in our early 20s so do I borrow money from my parents when I'm newly married to travel that's in essence what this where this lands when I say it that way does it sound as crazy to you as it does to me yeah

Starting point is 01:40:26 a little bit okay yeah no you you you're like did grown-up stuff and went bought a house at 24 years old, pay for your stinking house and then start talking about traveling. Do you have a good relationship with your parents? Very good. The surest way, the surest way to blow it up is to have money in between you. Okay. And I know that's a weird, hard thing to say at 24, especially when you got two people who are like, no, it's no big deal, it's no big deal. Just take it from two older guys, clear the money between your relationship so that it can stay as good as it is right now. I think I heard a two-stage deal here. Like they gave you a gift of a certain amount and that even wasn't enough. And so then they loaned you more. Is that right? Yes. They loaned us the full amount of

Starting point is 01:41:13 whatever cost for the house we're paying for in cash to build. So they're not taking loan out from any. They've been completely debt-free since 2008. I know, but you now owe them a mortgage payment. Okay. So that part where they went through Financial Peace University, they flunk the class, because we tell you not to do that, ever. Don't ever loan your children money. Oh, my God. Because it puts a wedge between the relationship. Yeah, the borrower is slave to the lender. Now you have to eat dinner. Hey, eat Thanksgiving dinner with your master.

Starting point is 01:41:44 Yeah. Okay. That's going to be painful for your wife. Not going to bother you much because it's your parents, but it's going to be painful for your wife. Understood. So how much money do you owe your parents that you have to pay the mortgage on? Probably going to be around $200 to $250,000. Okay.

Starting point is 01:42:05 And how much of a gift? did they give you? About 50% of the total cost to build, so about 200 to $250,000. So you're 24 years old, you make $130, and you've got a $450,000 house? Yes. Dang, Gina. Okay. It's a lot of house, dude.

Starting point is 01:42:24 That's a lot of house. All right. Well, for sure, the answer to your question is, no, you don't need to go on vacation. Yes, you need to take the $130,000, but I'm even going to go a step further. I'm going to put the $130,000 with your mom and dad to limit the size of the mortgage, and then I'm going to go get a commercial mortgage, not from your parents. Okay. Because I don't want this mortgage.

Starting point is 01:42:48 I don't want you paying payments to your parents for any amount of money, for any amount of interest. I don't think you're going to do that because I think you guys have worked out this detailed thing in all of your heads that this all works out, to the point that you're ready to go to Europe instead of pay them back. here's here's what I would see I can see myself working really hard so I can I can bulldoze a path for my son and his new wife I get that but if my son was to hand me a check for 130 grand and say dad I've got this money saved up this is the part of the mortgage and then I want you to see here I'm giving you the rest of it I took out a commercial loan because I want to just stay your son I don't want to stay one of your like I don't I don't

Starting point is 01:43:33 I don't want you to be my banker. I would be so proud. And in a way, you're kind of not showing him up, but you're kind of saying, I'm taking the reins here. It would show a level of wisdom and maturity. I'm trying to give him as much grace as I can't dad. Because the arrangement he's put you in is madness.

Starting point is 01:43:51 It just ends in somebody wanting you to do something for Christmas and your wife doesn't want to. And it's like, well, after all, it's just a recipe for disaster. But man, if you went and did what Dave just said, go get a commercial loan for the rest of it and by the way that's a tiny mortgage it's a hundred 120 thousand dollar mortgage it's a tiny tiny tiny mortgage just go do that man you'll have that paid off in no time with as much money as you'll make if you don't go on trips yeah if you

Starting point is 01:44:15 don't go to europe and by the way you're i don't know davy trips are more fun when i when i'm older now i don't know why they just are well they're more fun because they don't follow you home um but in in essence that's what this ends up being i don't have i don't have i don't have Increase the amount we borrow from mom and dad by the amount that we spend on the trips. And so it's black borrowing from mom and dad to go on a trip. And obviously that would be ludicrous. So moms and dads, those of you that graduated from Financial Peace University, with a better grade than that mom and dad got, which was an F.

Starting point is 01:44:54 Here's the rule, okay? If you want to give your children some money and they pay cash for a house, and part of the bargain is they never borrow money again because you want your family tree to be completely changed. Great. Never make your child, your grown child, your slave. You change your relationship with your daughter-in-law, your son-in-law. You change the relationship in how you interact with each other.

Starting point is 01:45:21 It's just you're adding layers to it that you're unintended, but they're very real. And no one is the exception. Even a nice master is a man. master. Hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with money but still stuck? I was you. In debt, running hard but taking three steps forward and two steps back. Turns out it's not the numbers. It's the fact that changing our ways with money is emotional. That's why I wrote my brand new book, what no one tells you about money, to help you push past what's really been sabotaging your progress so you can finally win. You can pre-order now and score over $100 and free bonus items.

Starting point is 01:46:13 But only if you order by January 5th, go to ramsysysolutions.com. slash store today. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Dima and Rhonda are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve.

Starting point is 01:46:57 Where do you two live? We live in Durham, North Carolina. Oh, I love Durham. Great town. Welcome to Nashville. And good to have you guys. How much debt have you two paid off? We paid off $266,192.

Starting point is 01:47:12 Whoa! How long did this take? Oh, my God. Four years and eight months. Golly. All right. And your range of income during that time. Our starting salary was $138,000, and our ending salary was $28,000.

Starting point is 01:47:30 Look at you, too. What do you all do? What do you do for a living? Oh, well, I'm actually in compensation. I work for a medical tech company, so I'm a compensation in the compensation role. Okay. I don't even know what that means. That must pay really well.

Starting point is 01:47:46 Hey, I think that's why I get paid the big bucks. For real. I'm a licensed clinical mental health counselor. You ain't making $280,000. I'm also a professor as well. Okay, there's good. Very good. Good for you guys.

Starting point is 01:48:01 That's awesome, guys. Thank you. So what kind of debt was the 266? Yeah, so it was a car loan credit card. And Deemis grad school. And student loans. I'll tell you right now. Absolutely student loans.

Starting point is 01:48:14 Yes. So my student loans were 150,000 and Rhonda's were 100,000. Right, 100, yeah. That's undergraduate, graduate, and doctorate. Yeah, and so for me, I went out of state, Dave, and a private institution. And then I went on and got a master's after that. Why not? So talk about, like, following it on.

Starting point is 01:48:34 Yeah. Pallon it on. Okay, so how long have you two been married? Oh, this year, we're celebrating 10 years. So halfway through five years ago, something happened. What happened? What set you off on this stuff? He decided to go get that last degree.

Starting point is 01:48:49 And we were already, like, if you want to think about it, we were like 800 and something in student loans, just me with Dima's student loans being in forbearance. And we're like, what are we going to do when your loans come out and we have to start paying? Like, mind you, we had just had a little one in 2017 and Dima started school and we cannot take on my loans daycare and then when Dima get like his student loans we were scared like what's that going to look like yeah it just kept

Starting point is 01:49:18 stacking up until it got scary yeah it got really scared then what happened what you do I mean we're graduates of the financial police institute university so I think we were just kind of paking it baby steps baby steps but when we realize what we're going to be under with all the student we're just like we've got to use the principles and really get serious and intentional. Time to get hardcore. Yeah, absolutely. All right. So you lean in.

Starting point is 01:49:41 Yeah. And what was the first thing you did and what was the radical stuff you did? Oh, we started doing the monthly, monthly meetings talking about our finances. Hard conversations. Hard conversations. I mean, credit cars, of course, we put them in a jar in the kitchen and we were like paying with cash. And if it wasn't on our monthly, you know, things that we had talked to, about them we weren't doing it um what would you say who's the spender i could see it

Starting point is 01:50:09 i was hoping you would not say yeah dave well your shoes are shot from here your watch is blinding me let me say this he um for his birthday he um was like oh let's go let's get this car let's let's test drive it on his birthday we ended up walking away with the car so i would say dave after we got intentional that car we sold it and we were upside down so we're like but we can't and we made sure that anything else we had, we were paying cash for as far as cars. And that was really the testament that he was able to say, hey, I love the car, but I want us to get us out of debt and sold a car. Being debt-free was more important. Absolutely. So y'all have made an incredible combined salary together. Both of y'all are rolling up to places where people are seeing

Starting point is 01:50:55 y'all drive up. And y'all ain't driving a quarter million dollar cars. No, I, you know, we still own. I have a 2010 Mazda. Yeah. It runs great. It runs great. It runs great. Going to your mysterious compensation job. Yes.

Starting point is 01:51:10 Yes. Absolutely. You know, we're like, hey, we can't get rid of this. Like, you know, we're thinking about gas prices and things like that. But it's making us more intentional and saying like now that we've paid off debt, what else can we do? Definitely humbling ourselves and having faith in the process was a struggle. But, you know, I'd definitely say be persistent and resilient.

Starting point is 01:51:30 Absolutely. Because you know what, Dave, like we're all taught. to like pay off debt, but then it's like, what do you do after you pay off debt? And so we're loving these conversations because we're just been so used to paying off our student loans and paying off the- Four years. I mean, that's a habit pattern right there. Right, right, absolutely. Four years are doing nothing. Yeah, basically. But you know what? One of our happy experiences when we challenged ourselves to say, what are we going to do? And I remember our birthday, we had $100 and said, we were going to do with that. We went and we did a day trip to the beach. And that's been the most

Starting point is 01:52:00 memorable trip and it's like we packed sandwiches we we everything was free and we're like wow and i'm like i'm still talking about that birthday so it's like be humble and you'll be surprised i think even dima made me a birthday cake so it was box but you know you know it was it was good and it was humbling to us there you go and dima can i tell you being a professor being a mental health practitioner yes i've always wondered um if you want to do this this scientific study. I'll put it on the air for you. I always wondered if you're somebody in the helping profession, if you're a professor, how much do you have to curb what the research says? How much do you have to curb what you actually believe is the right thing to say? Because you're not really

Starting point is 01:52:45 supposed to say that. And I owe somebody money. And now the students that you're going to be teaching, they're going to get unfiltered you because nobody, nobody, you know, nobody's telling you what to do anymore. No knife over you. And you're going to be able to sit there and tell these, these clients of yours. Here's the truth. Because I don't know anybody anything, man. I can, I can speak from here now. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. And I think that was one of the motivators in wanting to be debt free, just the freedom, if you will. Like you mentioned, Dr. John, like that freedom that you have to kind of, you have that discretionary income, if you will. We're still working through the baby steps, but you have more freedom. And there's no, there's no, there's

Starting point is 01:53:26 There's no one, there's no loans or things of that nature that you have to pay. It's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I'm proud of you. Well done. Thank you. Excellent.

Starting point is 01:53:36 Way to go, heroes. Thank you. How does it feel? Oh, I mean, Dr. Darni said it, it just to not owe anybody anything. Like, what can we do now? It's really challenging us to say, what do we want to do with our careers and like how do we give back? It's like, it's making you just want to just pour out all of that knowledge.

Starting point is 01:53:54 And so we're just like, just, we're just, like, just, we're just, we're just, we're just, ready and fired up about it. It's refreshing. Like our budget meetings are, it's a different, it's a different vibe. Oh, yeah. You can't thank you to,

Starting point is 01:54:07 thank you to. Oh, my God. Ramsey crew. Yeah, thank you all. Way to go, y'all. We're proud of you. Thank you. This is one of the rare couples

Starting point is 01:54:15 that they both married well. You both did all right. Thank you. We won out in our marriages, but y'all both did real well. That's awesome. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Starting point is 01:54:26 That's great. Very well done, you two. Very well done. All right, it's Dima and Rhonda from Durham, North Carolina. $266,000 paid off in four years and eight months, making 138 to 284. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one. With debt free! I love it. Well done. Very well done. Very well. Yeah, I guess the number of things you can do when you have that liberty is changed dramatically, but particularly I never thought of it in a university setting. That's very interesting, that you don't have this 266 breathing down your neck so you can just kind of go, eh, here's the truth. Well, and you sit at the table and this is how we're going to teach this or this is how we're saying this,

Starting point is 01:55:29 or if you have this belief, you're stupid, and if you owe a whole bunch of money, money, you kind of got to put your head down and go into the next thing. Got to bite your tongue. And so now, Dima's been unleashed. It's going to be fun to see it happen, man. Why to go, heroes? This is the Ramsey Show. Listen up, guys, because I've got a big question for you.

Starting point is 01:56:22 Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you be better off? Worse? Or exactly the same? Believe it or not, you get to choose. Look, I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel. powerless over your money, but I want you to hear me. You're more in control than you think. You can turn your finances around, so let me help you out. Start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our

Starting point is 01:56:47 free every dollar live stream event on January 8th. We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck. So you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead. And you could even win $2,000 just for signing up. Listen, another year is going to pass anyway. So decide that this is the year you're going to take back control of your life and your money. Go sign up for the free live stream at every dollar.com slash live stream. Our scripture day, 2 Corinthians 1-4, he comforts us all in our troubles so we can comfort others. When they are troubled, we will be able to give them the same comfort. God has given us.

Starting point is 01:57:40 Jordan Peterson says, face the demands of life voluntarily, respond to a challenge instead of bracing for catastrophe. Amberly is with us in Concord, New Hampshire. Hey, Amberley, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Starting point is 01:57:58 Well, my husband and I have made a series of really bad financial mistakes, and we were just wondering if we should sell our house this year or next year. What kind of mistakes? that. Well, we were house poor. We bought a duplex that, you know, it's overwhelming. We have to, we pay about three grand a month, and we only make about 60 grand gross a year. So why would you wait a year? You're drowning. I know. We are. What is it you're waiting on? Well, I'm the main person who does the budget, and I was just, for some reason it seems like we make, we do somewhat make a little bit more money. I stay in here, but I feel like it's wrong.

Starting point is 01:59:06 Like, I feel like it would be better if we can move. I'm confused. It feels like you make more money. Math is not a feeling. Do you make more money or not? Well, we make 60 grand growth, and then we also get 2,500 a month from the other side. And so, I don't know. I know we probably should.

Starting point is 01:59:33 Do you not like being a landlord, Emberley? No. Okay. I don't. Solid. Yeah, be honest about the problem. I can hear it. This thing's a brick around your neck.

Starting point is 01:59:46 Yeah. Your sanity is not worth it. Yeah. Yeah. It's a stupid house. Yeah. It is. And we found out that our tenant has been running the water 24-7.

Starting point is 02:00:03 And so, sorry, I'm just a little overwhelming being on the air. Sorry. It's okay. You're good. We've never lost a patient. You're okay. Yeah. And I want to.

Starting point is 02:00:16 And we're in. We're in this market where I know that we could technically, you know, this house would appreciate, but. Doesn't matter. I do want to get it. It doesn't matter. It's not fun. No. Everything in this conversation says you're not having fun.

Starting point is 02:00:33 No. This house has not been a blessing. It's been a curse. Yeah. And TikTok told you that the way to wealth is to buy a duplex, rent the other side, they'll pay your mortgage and you're going to. And now it's not fun. That's not fun. You found out TikTok was wrong.

Starting point is 02:00:48 Oh, there's a shock. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, should put it on the market like next month? I mean, Friday. Yeah, Friday. Friday sounds good. Okay.

Starting point is 02:01:04 I'm not kidding. Okay. I'm not kidding. If I have something I own that I hate as bad as you hate this, even if I made a mistake and I'm ashamed to admit the mistake, I'm still going to admit the mistake. I want to kill. as soon as I can kill it. I want it in my rearview mirror as a distant memory of dumb things I've

Starting point is 02:01:21 done. Otherwise, every time you drive up the driveway, you're going, I don't feel really good about me. Yeah. And you can't be the wife you want to be. You can't be the mom you want to be. You can't be the employee. It affects every every squirrence of your life. You're not having fun. We can hear it. And it's not just you're scared to be on the air. It's your whole situation, right? Yeah. I mean, if you had a house payments you could afford, you could breathe again. You're having trouble getting a full lung full of air right now. Yeah. It's overwhelming and I'm scared. Yeah, we can hear it. And it's not being mean to you. I've been exactly where you are. That's how I can identify it. I smell it. I know what it feels like. And so the thing is that the faster you act on this, the quicker you're going

Starting point is 02:02:10 to get peace. Yeah. And peace is really our goal. here. You got plenty of time to buy a different house, plenty of time to make different real estate decisions, sell this thing, and go run an apartment or something for six months and breathe a little bit. And then slow down and make a better real estate decision the next time you move into real estate. You can do this. Okay. So go to ramsysolutions.com and click on real estate ELPs for Ramsey trusted real estate agents, people we trust that we have vetted and they'll help you get the thing on the market and help you get it sold ASAP. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes.

Starting point is 02:02:50 I like real estate, but I hate real estate. Isn't that interesting? Because I see what it does to people when you do it wrong, including me. It leaves a mark. It's not fun. Alejandro is with us in Miami. What's up, Alejandro? Oh, excuse me.

Starting point is 02:03:09 Sorry, I just drank water. No troubles. Yes, my question is, is it worth it to go to college? Now, the reason why I'm asking that is because I have, you know, my brother, he's basically studying in U.S. And he's been going to college for basically eight years now because he's getting his doctors. Now, he's a, you know, straight-A student and everything. and my worrisome is that his depth is five digits. So, no, yeah, it's five digits, basically.

Starting point is 02:03:43 So it's going from like, let's say from 9,000 to 60,000, and like the amount of debt that he's getting is ridiculous, right? And are we asking about you or him? How was that? This is more for him than it is for myself. Well, he's already made his decision. Right, right. But what I wanted to know is that.

Starting point is 02:04:06 that like from what I see in the market overall, I see employers basically asking more than what they could give off, as in like a story that he was telling me is that, oh, hey, there's a position that they like his degree, but they're only offering like $70,000 instead of the range that the college promised them. And that's kind of like, you know, what is his degree going to be in to continue the discussion? Sports medicine.

Starting point is 02:04:36 Okay. And so he's going to end up how much in debt to do sports medicine? 60,000. Okay. And this is a four-year degree? This is, it's becoming eight. He did four, then he got his master's like two years ago. Oh, so he's getting a Ph.D. in sports medicine? Yes, yeah. Well, that's not necessary. Okay, in that field.

Starting point is 02:05:01 So the answer, but the problem is you cannot extrapolate that to, is it okay to go to college because yes it's okay to go to college college is worth the expense if you pay cash and study something that's actually usable in the marketplace the problem was your brother overdid it he'd got two more degrees than he needed to function in that in that space or at least one more that he could afford and if he wants to move up then he gets his master's degree do not need a phd in sports medicine to function in the sports medicine space yeah unless maybe if you're going to go work for an team or something, they may want you to have a doctor by your name, but who knows? I don't even know the particulars of that. But the college is going to give you a range, and when they give you a

Starting point is 02:05:44 salary range, those things are skewed by, if they're taking numbers from San Francisco and New York to Nebraska, it's all over the place. And so don't blame the college. He's got to do his own research and say, what does it pay in the area that I want to live? And I wouldn't go to to school eight years for a $70,000 job. I agree with you, Alejandro. That's not worth it. Absolutely not. You can get lots of $70,000 jobs for four-year degrees and lots of $100,000 jobs going to trade school and being a welder. So if you're just looking at return on investment, the trades are awesome. There's a gap right now in the marketplace, and they pay beautifully.

Starting point is 02:06:21 But to say college is completely never worth it is an incorrect, not a factual statement. That's not a factual statement. Getting a degree in stupidity, left-handed puppetry or German polka history, and then thinking you're going to end up with being anything but a barista is ridiculous. And so that's dumb, but you can't take somebody doing something stupid like that and saying all higher ed is bad. That's just not true.

Starting point is 02:06:47 No, the data is, my kids are going to go to college. Yeah, mine too. Mine did. Yeah, there you go. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace.

Starting point is 02:07:03 Christ Jesus.

The Ramsey Show - You Cant Build Wealth While Carrying Other Peoples Problems

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