The Ramsey Show - You Can’t Outearn a Busted Budget

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

🔗⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Share the Ramsey 101 Playlist!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruze answer your questions and discuss: "I'm $60,000 in debt, I just lost my job and I have no savings. How do I get out of this mess?" "I blew through a $120,000 settlement and now I don't have anything in savings or retirement..." "Does giving up my hobbies for my kids teach them the wrong message about chasing your dreams?" "We don't know who to trust when it comes to knowing how much we can pull from our retirement accounts." "I keep blowing through several line items in our budget and now my husband is frustrated with me." "I want to sell our home but my wife doesn't. How can we come to an agreement on this?" "Is it okay for my husband to become a stay-at-home dad?" "I am $21,000 in debt and am struggling, I can't figure out how to budget." "Should I sell my purse collection to get out of debt?" "Should I short sale my home?" Next Steps: ✔️⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Help us make the show better. Please take this short survey.⁠ 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET or⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠send us an email.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  📱 Get episodes early in the free Ramsey Network app!  📈⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💵⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app!⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🏠 Find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent ⛓️‍💥 Tired of debt? Grab Breaking Free From Broke now! Connect with our Sponsors: Stop paying more and start shopping smarter at ⁠⁠⁠⁠ALDI⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get 10% off your first month of⁠⁠⁠⁠ BetterHelp⁠⁠⁠⁠ Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠Boost Mobile⁠⁠⁠⁠ to switch today! Learn more about⁠⁠⁠⁠ Christian Healthcare Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get started today with⁠⁠⁠⁠ Churchill Mortgage⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get 20% off when you join ⁠⁠⁠⁠DeleteMe⁠⁠⁠⁠ Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠ FAIRWINDS Credit Union⁠⁠⁠⁠ for an exclusive account bundle! Save 15% on your first ⁠⁠⁠⁠Field of Greens⁠⁠⁠⁠ order with code RAMSEY Find top Health Insurance Plans at ⁠⁠⁠⁠Health Trust Financial⁠⁠⁠⁠ Use code RAMSEY to save 20% at ⁠⁠⁠⁠Mama Bear Legal Forms⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠ NetSuite⁠⁠⁠⁠ today to learn more Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at ⁠⁠⁠⁠The Nokbox⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get started with ⁠⁠⁠⁠YRefy⁠⁠⁠⁠ or call 844-2-RAMSEY Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠ Zander Insurance⁠⁠⁠⁠ for your free instant quote today!  Explore more from Ramsey Network: 💸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠The Ramsey Show Highlights⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🧠 ⁠⁠⁠⁠The Dr. John Delony Show⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🍸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠Smart Money Happy Hour⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💡 ⁠⁠⁠⁠The Rachel Cruze Show⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💰 ⁠⁠⁠⁠George Kamel⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🪑 ⁠⁠⁠⁠Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📈 ⁠⁠⁠⁠EntreLeadership⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. This is the Ramsey Show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their work, and their relationships. Phone number for you to jump in, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. We'd love to hear from you. you to jump in. 828-825-5225, 828-825-5225. We'd love to hear from you. Thrilled to be alongside the ever gracious, graceful,

she's just the picture of serenity. Rachel Cruz, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, Ken Coleman. Good to be with you, friend. Always great to host with you. Always fun. Let's go to Nick. Here are some of our friends in the lobby.

We've got a great crowd, by the way. Very fun. Lots of clapping. They're making are some of our friends in the lobby. We had a great crowd, by the way. Very fun. Lots of clapping. They're making us feel very validated. Thank you very much. So fun. Can't wait to meet them during the breaks. Nick is up in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

Nick, how can we help today? All right. I'm going through a little bit of a financial low. I'm literally have like no money left, about $400. I don't know how I'm going to pay the bills for my kids and my fiance. And I just can't seem to get a job, and the one I did, I didn't get to hold it. And I need to know a solution to get out of this. Oh man. So you're really going through it right now. What was the job that you had that you lost? It was a sales job where you fundraised

for charities. Well that's a tough job because you only get paid when you raise money, correct? Pretty much, yeah. If you don't raise money they let you go and my manager, like my team, kind of collapsed like the higher-ups and so I was like go because I didn't get the training sure All right, the last job you had what was the income that you had or so it's two questions You don't have to answer one Essentially what income do you need to be bringing home whether that be a week or a month that would? Stabilize you at least in paying the basics taking care of the family stabilize you at least in paying the basics, taking care of the family? Basically, about $1,000 to $1,300 a week.

Maybe a little bit less, but that's not including taxes. Okay. Okay. So you need four to five grand is what you're looking at, Nick? Yeah. Okay. So in a dire situation like this, your most important footing is to be paying what we call your four walls. Okay, so that's food, shelter, utilities and

transportation. And so making sure that those four are covered first and foremost debt, everything else can be put off to the side. Okay, we will deal with that when you actually have money, but you have $400 to your name. And this is crunch time. Like when is, do you guys rent? Do you own a home? We rent, yeah.

Okay, when is rent due? At the first of the month. Okay, so you've paid it for July. Utilities are due within, yeah. Utilities are due very, very soon though. And we didn't pay last month because we didn't have the money. Okay.

So that's a big concern. Okay. Yeah. So staying current on these four things is your most important. Meaning Nick, if you have to go wait tables and then work at Target at night, like whatever it is, you need to be doing something. Like tomorrow, tomorrow, you need to be doing something like tomorrow tomorrow You need to go be applying and I don't care if it's below your pay grade below

What you a role you would usually take like you are in a situation that's dire and Your fiance, what does she do for work? She's a stay-at-home mom. We have two kids and our oldest has Two disabilities. So okay, we tried daycare for him and no one wants to watch him. Can she do remote work, something with the computers, customer service, where she's answering the phones? Yeah, like 15 hours a week. I mean, anything, anything.

I can try the issues. I kind of need her attention all the time. So what would you do today? What would you do today? Forget career path. Forget this. Yeah, yeah. This is like how we make money.

Like, I got to go make $2,000 between now and the next two weeks. What would you do? I was looking at selling my computer. OK, I like that. But let's talk about work for a second. What would you do for work? To go make money. To go.

So I don't live in Edmonton, right? I have no idea. So I jump up and I show up on your front door tonight and I go, Nick, I got to make $4,000 in the next 30 to 45 days. I'll do anything. I'll shovel. I'll go work on a construction crew like that. I'll do anything. Nick, tell me, where can I go make this money? What would you tell me? The oil fields. What could I do in the oil fields? Look at me, I am the ultimate city slicker. I'm wearing white pants today. How does a guy like me make money in the oil fields? Tell me, Nick, this is great. How do I, what could I do? I would either tell you to go get a sales job in a car dealership or to... No, no, no, no, no, no. I like the oil field. What would I do in the oil field? Keep going.

I don't know. Do something in construction, move pipes. Perfect. So you don't have to have any knowledge at all. You just got to be, have a pulse and do what you're told. Yes Yeah. All right. Could you think of three or four or five more of those type of jobs for me? City slicker American guy. No skill. Could you think of three or four more of those where I can go make some money? Like working in a restaurant working retail fantastic Nick Today and Nick we're gonna go work. I'm not kidding 12-hour hour days, okay? You're going to be somewhere at 7 a.m. and you're not getting home until 8 p.m.

Like it's, it is how I feel with what you just gave me. And I know you're talking, you know, on a show to two people. So I may not be getting the authentic Nick, but like I, like I would be in an absolute panic, right? Do you, do you feel that level of energy personally? Where are you at just emotionally with this? This is scary. So yeah, to be honest, I feel like I kind of failed my family a little bit and I've

been applying for job after job and retail. To me, I don't care if I'm picking up poop at a farm. I just want to get food on the table. Sure. So are you applying for these jobs, like what you're just saying? And they're not taking you? The job market here is just very poor. Let me tell you where I would go.

The exercise I did with you, Nick, the reason I did it that way is because I wanted you to stop thinking about yourself because you're scared right now. You're also down on yourself. And I wanted you to take on this out-of-body experience and say, what would I tell Ken to do? But the reality is, is everything that I just was trying to get you to tell me, here's what we're looking for right now. We're not looking for a job where I've got to go apply and wait for two weeks. Rachel's made this very clear and she's right. We don't have time for that. I'm

talking about the jobs that nobody wants. And I can promise you, I don't care what the job market is, there is always a list of jobs that nobody else wants to do. And those are perfect for you, Nick, because you show up. There is no applying. You show up on the job site and go, hey, give me a shovel. Give me some work gloves. This is where I'm at. I've got a fiance. I've got a child with disabilities.

I have to work. I'll be the hardest work you've ever had. This is the approach. This is the approach. Two things are happening there, Nick. Number one, you're showing up where nobody else wants to show up. There's a great chance that you're going to get the job. Number two, you've got a story to tell and people want to help people who are helpable. So you show up and say, I'll do whatever. I don't know what I'm doing,

but I'll do exactly what you'd tell me to do and I won't quit and I'll work 12 hours because I got to take care of my fiance and my two babies. That's a story. Rachel, final thoughts on this? Yeah. I mean, it's that, yeah. And Nick, I mean, honestly, in the next two to three, four or five weeks, as you start making this money again, I'm going to implore you, like making sure that you guys don't get behind on utilities, don't get behind on rent. Like that's going to be your number one thing. All the debt, any payments you have, we can worry about that later, but don't forfeit your family's survival needs, food, shelter, utilities, transportation, for anything else. That is your number one. We need to get those covered for the next month or

two and then we can look on beyond that. But you you've got to find that paycheck and it can be anything, anywhere, but 12 hour days. That's my challenge to you. I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and

they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance. And I'm like, I can't even imagine, or even if it was opposite, right? If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I gonna afford childcare?

How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through how am I gonna pay my bills? How am I gonna eat next week? Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible.

And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And we keep re-upping it because I'm like, I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing

that you have money if something suddenly happens. And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not gonna be here. You gotta say it out loud and you gotta say, I'm gonna say I love you to my family

by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. It costs those stinking pizza. It really is so that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family. So we've used Zander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years including of course term life insurance. To get a free quote go to 800-356-4282 that's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. All right Crystal's up next in Denver, Colorado. Crystal, how can we help today? Well, I'm at a loss here.

I guess I'm kind of struggling. So I was in a really bad car accident about, gosh, I want to say about four or five years ago. They did eventually pay out about $120,000. Now I have utilized that money to pay off my home and to follow the Dave Ramsey way, you know, pay off my car, pay off the main necessities that I needed to try to get caught up. But now I'm suffering from this realization that, you know, all these extra bills are starting to come in and I don't know what to do with them. I can barely walk at, you know, barely work. I,

I keep my part-time job, which gives me full-time payment on all my bills, but now I have an excessive like a house tax payment that I didn't realize what's supposed to be due in April. Certain little things like that. My car broke down. I'm like, what the heck is happening? I just paid everything off to try to get caught up and I feel like I'm back behind again. Oh man, okay, did you set any of that settlement aside for like three to six months of expenses?

Do you have any savings? No, I don't have no savings. I don't have no money for my retirement. I have nothing left. Okay. And you use some of this to pay off your home. So your home is paid off? Yes.

I used 80 of it to pay off my home. I used the other 10 of it to pay off my car. So that was 90 right there. Yeah. What's the total right now, Crystal, of bills that are coming in that you didn't expect? So this is above and beyond your normal living expenses. Can you give us a total? Probably about 4,000.

I was just listening to what you guys were telling that other gentleman, and I was like, Lord, I wish I could just grab a shovel and put on some stuff and go do that kind of work. So but $4,000 is- What's the disability, Crystal? You said you can only work part time. Is that because of the car wreck or is there something else health-wise going on? It's all due to the car wreck. My arm is pretty much broken.

I'm a cleaner. So I go in, I'll clean the house for three, four hours at a time, and I get paid full time. It's a blessing to be able to do that, but the more work I pick up, the more my body can carry. Sure. Okay, Crystal, let's go back for a moment. We're going to dig in here. So, I want to know the total amount of money and bills that you were sharing with Rachel

and I at the start of the call. That number is $4,000? In excess, this month. Okay, so you have the tax bill on your home. How much is that? $1,558.28. I just called them and they said they don't care. Okay. And then a car. Yep. Okay. And then something with your car, correct? What was that? $10,000. How much? $10,000. How much is it worth right now? Like if it was fixed, how much would it be worth? About

$18,000 probably. Okay. Okay. What's wrong with it? I got myself a decent car. I thought what's wrong with the car? That's gonna cost 10,000 to fix Apparently I didn't know but you know the windshield is now broken I didn't know it had a stupid front camera that they got a fix But I called the insurance they're gonna pay like five hundred dollars on that stuff Well, you don't need a camera. You don't need a camera to drive it. Is it drivable? It's drivable, but it's affecting apparently the whole system in the car. So apparently I have to get it fixed for the system to work. What system?

Which I knew nothing about. I didn't know I was purchasing such an extravagant car. Otherwise, I don't think I would purchase it. What kind of car is it? A Honda. I thought I was getting a good car. You are. Hondas will run for 500 years. You can get from point A to point B, but the system you're saying is the camera and other

things, right? But your engine works. You can turn, I mean for real, like you can literally turn the key, you can drive, there's acceleration braking. Like the basics to get you to and from somewhere is okay. Is that correct? Yes and no. So it will go, but when you push the park button, sometimes it keeps itself in drive.

And apparently it's all due to the stupid electrical that is attached to that stupid camera. Okay. And how long ago did you buy the car? Oh gosh, I probably just bought it last year. Okay. Was it, okay, and did you buy it from a dealer? No, I did not.

Okay. You bought it for private sale? Private sale because it was $10,000 less than all the cars that were available out there. Okay, gotcha. All right, so let's keep running the numbers here. So we've got a $10,000, we're being quoted $10,000 for the Honda to be fixed. We've got $1,500 for the housing tax. What else is a bill that has come up on you that you

weren't prepared for? Is there anything else? So primarily those two are the main ones that I've been stressed about. All right, if those two weren't in the picture right now, would you be, through your disability or through your part-time work, would you be able to cover all your basics? Yes, and you'd have margin. Yes. Okay, all right. Okay, good. Now we know we're working. Okay, so the real pressing issue is the $1,500. She's like that one. We need to get that one paid quickly. Yeah, so that's gonna be your number one priority and Crystal what I would I mean,

this is the hard thing about money is it flows two ways. It comes in and it goes out. There's no other way to fix that issue, meaning money flowing in for a short period of time is probably going to be your best bet. I know from a health standpoint that's really difficult. I'm not talking long term. I'm not talking five term, I'm not talking, you know, five years of doing this, but if you can pick up more time with the cleaning, because like what you're saying is great, it's physical labor, but it's for a short period of time

and you get paid really well. So I think that this is like a great lane to stick in. I would stick in that lane than first is trying to go find something else. And I also wonder, what else can you sell? Do you have things that you can sell to get at least $1,000 of the $1,500? Could you cover the whole amount by selling things that you already own? I was trying to sell a couple of appliances here that are half broken, and nobody even wants those for $100.

Well, I understand, sweetheart. I'm talking about something that... I understand, but is there anything you can sell that's not broken or half broken? No, sir. I live only by my means. Are you plugged into a local church? Yes. Okay.

Have you told the church what's going on with you? Yeah, unfortunately, my church does not help with situations like that. Okay. All right. What about our friend group? What kind of a friend community do you have around you? Oh, really, I just have family and I kind of mentioned it to them. And they kind of said, well, you better figure it out.

And I was like, wow, all righty then. Okay. All right. So we're running through the list of quick fixes. You're just going to have to grit through this, and you've done it up to this point. I think you can do it. Yeah, and I just want to encourage you that, number one, with the car, I would go get a second and third opinion.

Sometimes one mechanic at a dealership is going to quote you something. So I would go, honestly, go find somebody, in a local shop, I mean, anything, right? That get two or three opinions. And my guess is that 10,000 is gonna lower to seven. I think you can find a better deal than what you have. Usually the first opinion is mostly the most expensive. So let's just pretend that's the case, Crystal. Do you think you could make,

do you think you can make an extra $300 a week? If I try really hard, I'm hoping to pick up another house somewhere here or there. So, Crystal, that's it. You got to just back out the math and say, okay, I need to get this $1,500 in the next two months. And what I need, bare minimum. I need to get this 1500 in the next two months. And what I need bare minimum. I need to get it in three weeks. Okay. Get after it.

Okay. So then let's do it. You can do it. Yeah. Because here's the deal. It's three weeks. You can do it. You can do this.

And this gets the taxing out of your hair. Now you've paid the house off. You can cover things. You can figure the car out. You can figure the car out. You can figure the car out. I drive that car until it absolutely stopped. Yeah, and Ken, I would say for the baby step purposes, not to keep harping on Crystal's situation, but this is why we do say before you pay off your home or anything, you need

to have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, cash in the bank that's there as your emergency fund, be funding some retirement, and then the house comes later because if she had six months of expenses, three months of expenses saved, this wouldn't be as big of an issue. So remember that savings liquid cash, you guys, is really important in life so that you're not stuck in a situation like this. These days, business as usual is anything but. Tariffs make trade policy a moving target, supply chains are squeezed, and cash flow is probably tighter than ever.

So if your business can't adapt in real time, you're in a world of hurt. That's why you need NetSuite by Oracle, trusted by more than 41,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions. You need to see what's happening, what's stuck, and what's costing you, and how to fix it. And NetSuite is the number one cloud-based business management suite because it helps your business make the right decisions fast. It brings accounting, financial management, inventory,

and HR into one place so you're not left shuffling a dozen different spreadsheets. That gives you the visibility you need to make quick decisions based on actionable data. And NetSuite AI automates everyday tasks so your team can focus on strategy. It's one system for full control and no guesswork to tame the chaos. And right now if you're leading a business doing more than a million dollars in annual revenue, download NetSuite's free ebook, Navigating Global Trade, Three Insights for Leaders, at netsuite.com slash Ramsey.

That's netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Hey, if you're tired of getting to the end of the month and realizing you've been living paycheck to paycheck and you feel like you just can't get ahead stuck in the hamster wheel, I want to make sure that you're aware of our free Every Dollar trainings. These are new trainings every week this month. They're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. We'll show you how to stick to a budget, even find $9,000 of margin using EveryDollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth. So again, it's free. You can ask questions during this live Q&A.

It's all free. Sign up at everydollar.com slash webinar, everydollar.com slash webinar. Jeremy is up next in Hartford, Connecticut. Jeremy, how can we help? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So, we are, my wife and I just had a second child about a week ago. Oh, congrats. Are you alive? Thank you so much. I'm alive.

That's good. We're waking well with you. Yeah, very impressive. I wouldn't be able to put two syllables together. Good for you. Well, let's wait until the end of the call. Yeah, very impressive. I wouldn't be able to put two syllables together. Good for you. Let's wait till the end of the call. Fair point. Fair point. We bought a house in November, so about seven months ago now, and we decided that we prayed about it, my wife's gonna stay home and raise our kids the way that we think is best and the way we feel pressed to do so, which is to love Lord. What this means is, of course,

we're down to my one income. And the biggest question I have, I suppose, is I rent a garage. I'm very into cars. They're all my passion, they're my hobby. But I think what makes sense is to get rid of the garage so that I can afford to obviously raise my family. I guess my question or concern is what like am I teaching my kids that money is more valuable than good dreams singles? Like I want them to grow up and think that kids means you have to

give up things you enjoy. I think that's twisted. I think if anything it depends off. Yeah I think that's twisted. I think if anything, it depends on, yeah, I think it depends on A, how you communicate it, because they're little right now, so they don't even know what you're doing. That's one. Two, if you communicate that for a season in life, when your mom came home, I gave up this garage and these cars because I couldn't do both. And so for a season I sacrificed. So I think it teaches sacrifice, I think it teaches discipline, I think it teaches a very counter-cultural message of waiting on things, right? So I think it's all about how you teach that and how you... I don't think

in any way it's teaching them that you've given up your dreams, but my question is... No, it's me, Jeremy. It's teaching them you're an adult. And you all made an adult decision to go from two incomes to one income, so that means we don't get to do everything we like because you guys are more important in this season. I mean, do you know what I'm saying? Like we just talked to so many people and they comes that means we don't get to do everything we like because you guys are more important in this season. I mean, do you know what I'm saying? Like we just talked to so many people and they don't live in adulthood, if you will. Like, you know what I mean?

It's all of it and you're like, you can't do that. That's not how the world works. And so, no, to me, I'm like, it's the opposite. It's like, oh no, actually we're making trade-offs and still living within our means to actually make the decisions that are truly valuable, right? I mean, to you all, you're choosing, not really, but sort of the value of raising your children and your wife being a stay-at-home mom, which is the most incredible gift for cars. So if anything, it's like-

How much money does this cost? To me, I'm like, that is great. And your kids aren't even going to know it because by the time they even understand what's going on, Jeremy, they're gonna be seven, eight, nine, ten, and you guys are gonna be in a completely different financial situation. So I wouldn't, no, I would not worry about this at all. In my head, you're being an adult and that would be the lesson that my kids would learn. I don't know.

Am I a boomer? Who am I right now? No, I mean, we both, no, I mean. That's like the least Gen Z thing I feel like I don't know. Am I a boomer? Who am I right now? That's like the least Gen Z thing I feel like I could ever say. No, I think it's great. We both said the same thing, but you're retorting. I want to hear this retort. Well, part of the reason I'm slightly concerned. So this is now, I started a new career path, I guess a few weeks ago at the same job. Um,

which was the intention was to do this years ago, but they kept kind of kicking the can down the road, so to speak. So the raise we got I have now because I'm in training is very minimal. So we are, I mean, we've given up a lot in our budget already. We're past the four walls, four walls, but like not far at all. That's the four walls for the time being, supposedly only a few months. The issue, the thing that scares me, I guess, is I don't, um, no. So I rent a double deep garage bay,

four minutes from my house for $350 a month on a commercial lot. So they don't care if I run a business out of it. There's 350 a month. I surely outside of the blessing of God, will never find that again. My concern, I guess, is I don't have high prospects. I don't know that I'll be able to get something like this back. Okay. All right. So I got it. Let me dive in. Let me dive in. All right. Let me ask some questions like I'm a bad lawyer on a TV show. I think we can get to this. Perfect.

All right, because I get where you're going. You're trying to convince us, and we don't have any numbers. All right. Do you make any money on this garage? It's $350 a month expense. Do you fix cars up for other people, or are you just messing around with your own cars? It used to be like I'd run a business after work, but now with a second child and trying to improve my manage, I'm home more often.

So the last few, probably months, I haven't done work out of it. It's just been a place to keep my project now. Okay, let's go back. So when you weren't with the second kid or the new baby, how much money were you making above and beyond the $350 through this garage doing car stuff? Probably like a grand or two, just enough to keep enjoying it. And how many hours a week was that prior to baby to get to that number? A week? Probably 10.

10 hours a week? Okay, so you've cut back because of new baby and so we're now not putting the 10 hours in. So as it sits right now, it's a $350 expense, there's no income, correct? Okay, so you've cut back because of new baby, and so we're now not putting the 10 hours in. So as it sits right now, it's a $350 expense. There's no income, correct? Correct. Right. And what are you projected to make after your training period in the new job? Supposedly.

Do you not believe these people? There's got a heavy dash of cynicism on that statement. I've heard it twice. Well, the position I'm in now was supposed to happen years ago, but the key change in management and current management didn't promise me. What have you been told after the training period how much more income per month or per year will you be making? They haven't told me a number, but based on the colleagues I'd be working with, if I guessed low, it be near 90,000,

100,000, somewhere around there. 90,000 in addition? No, no, full-time. Okay, what are you making prior to this point? What's your income? Minus the wife? About 60. And how much was she making? She was making about, well, about 40. Okay, so theoretically with this raise, you would almost be back to where you were with her. Her income. Yep. Okay.

I'm not trying to tell you. And when will that happen? When will that happen, you think? Yeah, what's the timeline on this? About five months from now now. At this stage, five months from now. All right, there's all my questions. That's good.

I think it paints a different picture in that. If I'm you, now this could be great, Rachel could hate this idea and I welcome it, but I've heard what I needed to hear, Jeremy. And I think this is a conversation between you and the wife, and I think you find 10 hours, the 10 hours again, you got to give her the time. See, I knew you were going to do that, Rachel. I'm not saying that he's got to help out at home. But here's the reality.

I'm not done with my thing yet. All right, keep going, keep going. I'll be quick. Keep going. I would find the 10 hours. I would find the 10 hours and I would start making money on the garage again so that this is a completely moot point is it 10 hours a month or a week a week Okay, here's my can I cake mom of three? Realistically, okay realistically you work Jeremy. What time do you get home from work?

Typically five four thirty five beautiful I'm handing babies off. I'm like, hello, you're home here. That's fine. You can do that until nighttime. And then he goes to the garage. No! I have my husband watching a show with me, and then on Saturday, no, you're not going

to the garage from 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. and have a hobby? I said have a conversation. This doesn't feel like a conversation. This feels like a confrontation. And if that's how it's going to go. This feels like the exact conversation I have a conversation. I said have a conversation. This doesn't feel like a conversation. This feels like a confrontation. And if that's how it's gonna go. Jeremy, I could not. She's gonna react the way Rachel reacted. Let it go.

Get her to the garage. Okay, Ken, what would Sacy feel if you worked every night? If it was important to me and it made money, she'd be fine with it. Every Saturday you'd go for 12 hours. You basically. Didn't say that. I said find 10 hours spread out over seven days.

That's a lot. There's not that many hours. Oh, there's plenty. There's not that many hours. 24 in a day. Everybody gets the same amount. Not right now, Jeremy. I wouldn't.

I'd at least float it. 10 hours a month, we'd get that. You saw what I did. I floated and got smacked. Question is, are you willing to do the same? Ha ha ha. The question is, are you willing to do the same? Hey you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved

through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion of medical bills since 1981. CHM has also helped them stay true to their values

and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's a better way to take care of healthcare costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month.

So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries. Paul, Minnesota. Anna, how can we help? Thank you for taking my call. We did the baby steps. We have no debt. We're less than a month away from my husband's retirement. Now we want to use our 401k as part of our retirement plan, but we just don't know where

to go and whose advice to trust and we don't want to run out of money. Yeah, that's a good fear. How old are you guys, Anna? I am 60 and my husband's almost 67. Oh, great. Okay. How much do you guys have in your 401k? It's just a little over 450,000. Okay, 450. $450,000. And is that all the retirement you guys have?

Or do you guys have a Roth IRA or anything else? I have a little, but not very much. I didn't work very much. Okay. And any other accounts? Or is that the $450,000 which you guys will be living on? That is it. And there are Social Security and I do some jobs.

Okay, okay. Do you guys, have you guys run a budget on how much household expenses and all of that you need a month? Yes. Okay. I, between about $42,200 a month. Forty-two. And how much do you guys get from other funds like social security and all of that? I think it's $3,400 a month. Okay, great. So you're not looking at way too much to pull out just to sustain life besides like a trip

or something, but just like what you guys need month to month. I mean, it's not, yeah, it's not that much that you're looking at. So yeah, when it comes to the actual running the numbers and everything, a couple of things. One, I would sit down with a SmartVest or Pro. I would have a financial advisor in your corner just to look over, especially where you guys are age-wise and stage of life, to be looking over your whole financial picture.

So everything from estate planning, anything with taxes, these investments, your home, I mean, all of that, they really can get a good picture and help you get a really detailed plan that will make you feel, I think, really secure because you're gonna be seeing numbers and knowing exactly what's going on. So you can go to ramsysolutions.com

and check out a SmartVestor Pro. We have many in your area, Anna, so I would do that. And then also, I mean, honestly, when you're looking at the math of it, we don't know exactly what the market's going to do year to year. But kind of one of the rules with investing, if you think, if you don't touch the principle, then in this 450, it doubles every seven years is kind of like the rough math you can play.

So it'll be 900,000 in seven years and then 1.8 million. And that's really, you know, not touching that principle is going to be key in order for that math to work out, but you guys can, you can even just go on ramsysolutions.com in our investment calculator and plug in some of these numbers too and to know, okay, if the market on average is making, you know, you can do, you know, eight, nine, 10, 11% on what your money probably will make on average over the long haul, you can see how much interest is gonna be gained

and you guys living off that. Cause I think the key really with investing, if you want this to go the furthest, is not touch that principle. And it's really that interest that you guys are using to be living off of it. And the encouraging thing, you know, is that you guys, there's not gonna be,

there's not a ton that you're needing month to month. I mean, it's like not even $2,000. So I think you guys are gonna be completely fine. But I do, I think you would feel better. I would feel better if I were you is to be able to look at everything, my whole financial picture. And honestly, a SmartVest or Pro could sit down with you

and do that. And so that's what I would do. I recommend this for everyone is to get someone, a financial planner in your corner because it is so helpful to look at the bigger picture and that's really what they're going to be able to walk you through and do but just know you know on the front end that you guys know what your expenses are which is great you know what's coming in outside of investments and then to know okay we're not needing a ton

month to month that we need to live off of. So you're not even really gonna touch the principle when it comes down to it, which is great. Yeah, and I think Rachel's absolutely spot on. I would only add that when you're sitting with a SmartVestor Pro, you really wanna look at this number and you want them to help you project to where you understand what a low output would be as far as interest, medium and high.

And then I personally would go, okay, let's just do our planning on what a low number would be. Be conservative in it. To Rachel's point, to be very conservative so that we're not touching that the principle. And so then I would do whatever it takes. Part-time job, you know, cut some expenses here and there just to leave that nest egg, that alone, leave that alone if you can for as long as you can. We have money in a money market too for like our emergency or like you said if something comes up we have about sixty thousand in that. Perfect. So that's gonna keep you from most likely touching

anything for emergency. That's a pretty good amount. So again you're looking at your month-to-month expenses, what do we live comfortably with, and we're gonna make up the difference so that we try to not touch that principle. And that's the goal. But you gotta get with that SmartVest or Pro, somebody who you trust, who explains it to you in a way that you guys go, oh, totally get this,

here's what we think we oughta do, and then we make up the difference. So you guys are in good shape. You just, what's missing from this equation for you going forward is knowledge. Just really understanding the numbers. And Ramsey Solutions with Smart Vestor Pro is somebody they endorse to go talk to?

Yeah, so if you go to ramseysolutions.com and you click on Smart Vestor Pro, these are independent financial folks. It's just that we have vetted them so that they're advising people, right, within our values. But we don't give investment advice, you know, we can't do it, we don't do that. So these people are trusted in the sense that we know that they give advice that Dave has given for decades.

And then you vet them yourself as well. So you go meet with three or four, sit down with them, and you got some chemistry there. Like, you know, I'm sure you really trust the lady that does your hair, Anna? Yeah. I think it's the same process, however you came about picking her.

I know Rachel's very finicky with who touches her hair. So that's a process, whatever you want it to be. Yeah, but have somebody, and I remember that, has the heart of a teacher is what we always say, not the heart of a salesman. And these part of us should have that. But I want you to fully understand after meeting with them to the point that you can teach someone else

what you're doing, right? Like I want you to be able to know that. So ask questions. If you get a weird feeling about somebody and you don't like them, don't use them, right? Like I want you to be able to know that. So ask questions. If you get a weird feeling about somebody and you don't like them, don't use them, right? Trust your gut in it. But having someone in your corner, I think is one of the best things

that you can do long-term for you guys, just to help. And we meet with ours once a year, Ken, Winston and I do. So we do the same thing. And we look at everything and it's just, there's something about having a third person that knows every number, knows where everything is invested, and they can even make changes in a great way

to help you even more, you know what I mean? Some of this stuff could be in really low risk investments, and they could maybe up it a little bit, and you can even make more, depending on what everything's in. So, having someone in your corner in that way is smart. Yeah, and we can't underestimate enough this process. When we say, go meet with three or

four different investment professionals. We mean that. That's not just a rule of thumb. The reason is because chemistry matters, trust matters, all of that. And I joke about the person doing your hair, but I think it's the same thing. It's like you're just not going to go to somebody who you don't like or you don't think is going to do a good job or every time you make a request, they talk you out of it. We just have to apply some common sense here

and I don't think we can really accentuate that enough that to your point, do you understand what it is that your investment pro is telling you that you should do? Yes, yes. Because if you don't understand it, don't agree to it. That's right, no, the fully, and I think too, this can be an intimidating industry to kind of tap into if you're not used

to meeting with someone, because there's kind of a jargon, there's a language, there's all this stuff around it, but again, the people that we want our listeners to be sitting down with and advising is someone that's not gonna turn their nose up. They're not gonna make you feel dumb or stupid for asking questions.

They are gonna be extremely humble people that are gonna help you and be advised in the right way. They're not gonna try to sell you on a reverse mortgage or doing something so stupid that it's within the values of, yes, let's get our house paid off, let's live below our means, let's, you know, here are my financial goals.

Like Anna, like what are you guys wanting to do and how can we make this 450,000 stretch as far as we can to do the things that we wanna do with our lives. And so someone that's on your team in that corner, that's what we're looking for. Thank you for the call, Anna. You guys are in good shape and just a little bit more knowledge.

Here's what happens, I'm telling you, when we get clear on any issue in life through knowledge, we have confidence. And when we have confidence, we're willing to make good decisions and move forward. You guys are going to do great. Thanks for the call. Okay, Rachel, the internet officially knows too much about all of us. So much, George. I mean, our names, our addresses, even our relatives' names. And what's crazy is even if you opt out, data broker websites can still get your info. Don't like that. And just a year ago, get this, the average person had about 300 pieces of personal data

floating around online. Now it's over 600. It has doubled in a year. You guys, that is so concerning because that info then can be used in phishing scams, impersonation, and even harassment. That's why George and I both use and love Delete Me. Yes, Delete Me scrubs your personal info from hundreds of these data broker sites Not just once but all year long and there's real privacy experts behind the scenes doing this not bots So this is digital hygiene. We all need we all need it

and then they will send you a detailed report showing exactly where they found your data and what they removed and you can even Request custom removals if you have something specific you want them to look out for. Exactly. And this is not being paranoid. This is staying protected. And so far, Delete Me has removed my info from 240 listings and saved me 94 hours of time. It would have taken me to do it. I love it. And you guys in a world where strangers can Google your grandma and get enough info to scam her in just two clicks, Delete Me gives you peace of mind. Yes. So go to joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey for 20% off. And that discount brings their annual plans down to about nine bucks a month. So go check it out. Joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey.

This is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their work, and their relationships. The phone number for you to jump in today is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Alongside the incomparable Rachel Cruz, I am Ken Coleman, and we're here together to help you out. Luna is going to start us off in Lafayette, Louisiana. Luna, how can we help? Hey y'all.

Okay, so I get $725 a week to cover groceries, diapers, lunch out, eating out for my family of five. And I'm frustrated with myself because it seems like I can't, it's hard to make that work. I'm always asking my husband, hey, can I get an extra transfer of $100 here or $150? And I'm just really frustrated with myself. And I think he's, I know he's also frustrated and doesn't understand how $725 doesn't work. And he also doesn't understand how I'm not

saving some of that that I get every week. Yeah, I was getting ready to say when you started listing out all the things that the $725 was supposed to cover, I was like, the eating out part is not even possible after all the other things. Luna, do you think it's an issue that your husband gives you money once a week? And you don't have access to money? Except having to ask him for it? And he doesn't understand why you're not saving?

Is that what you think is going on? Is that what's happening? She's got an allowance! I don't think it's an allowance. Is it an allowance? Okay, he's never said allowance and I've never said allowance. Is that what it is though? You have a different account and he puts in $725 a week into your account Luna. Is that right?

Yes. Oh wow, good pickup. I thought this was just like a line item in the budget. Oh, so he gives you $725. And he's expecting you to save some of this money in your account. Okay, Luna, I think we got some other issues. Does that feel weird to you? You know, we've been married for 15 years in August, and he has always been the one

who's handled the money. So it doesn't feel weird. Do you guys have a budget meeting? No, we don't have a budget meeting. You have no idea what his income is? Okay, I do, I do. Well, what's your household income? Do you have access?

Can you log into his account, Luna? Yes, I can log into his account. I can all log into our Edward Jones account. He's been a broker for seven years. I think that average- A broker? A real estate broker? A real estate broker, yes. For about seven years after he got out of the Navy. And I think $400 a year would be the average income. The only debt we have is our primary residence. Our house is worth about $1.2 million and we owe $500,000. So he's making about $400,000 a year.

Yes, on average. And you know how real estate is. Sure. And he's giving you basically $3,000 a month. Yes. All right, well, I don't know what the specific thing you called about, but I'll go right in on the thing that you laid out first, because Rachel's boiling over here. I can feel a source of heat to my right. I don't like it. I get it. I don't either. But one of the things that I think might help is for his frustration, he's not dealing in reality, minus the whole weird relationship

thing that's going on with this deal. But I would show him, I'd start delivering receipts. Have you ever done that before? When he gets frustrated, go, hey look, Sparky, let me show you what I spent the $750 on this week. Yes, I've said, hey, can we go through my, yeah, use my debit card. And I have said, let's go through my checking account. I mean, it's public, Walmart, it's food and- But he's not willing to do it?

Not really, no. Okay, well there's part of it. So now we have another relationship issue. It's weird- I've even said- oh, I'm sorry to interrupt. No, go. I've even said, hey, this Monday through Wednesday, I want you to go to the grocery store and I want you, whatever meals you want, I want you to buy the food. Because it really is food and I feel like things like haircuts or buying my three children's clothes that they need.

You sold me. I know, because I'm plugged in enough to know. And sinceacey handles all that. I was frustrated with myself though. And I'm like, okay, what, 7.25 a week, why can't you make this work? And it's just been hard. Well, this is counseling. I think this is therapy. I know, Luna. I'm like, do you, I'm hearing you say all of this, and do you feel like

completely isolated and making decisions completely apart from your husband who's supposed to be your partner in life, that's supposed to be in the trenches and you guys are doing life together and he's pushed you off on an island and said, little one, stay over there. And if I decide and I grant, because I am so wonderful and apparently know everything, grant you the money then maybe I'll give that to you. Like it's so disconnected like you emotionally have zero support and the fact that he's not even interested in what you're saying makes me feel like there's like a lot of marriage stuff there Luna where I'm like it's just not loving. It's just that's just not a loving way to treat your wife.

And let's say you were, mate, let's say it was absolutely ridiculous, Luna. Let's just pretend, okay? I don't really think it is, but like, what if it was? Then, then at least like, as a husband, at least sit down and help me problem solve what's going on instead of just leaving me out on my own. Like there's just, that's not connection.

That's not doing life together. That's not, you know what I mean? It's like he's shaking his head saying, do better. And it's, and I'll tell you this Luna, and I don't like it. I don't even like saying it loud cause it's kind of weird, but all of this, we hear this a lot, husbands giving wives allowance or even wives, my wife only gives me $400. You know, it's a, it's a parental type relationship

in that way. And that is not a marriage. A marriage is two adults coming to the table and getting to make decisions together for the good of our family. All right, so what would you do? I want you to put yourself in Luna's shoes. What would you do today if you're in her shoes? I would say I want you to close your checking account.

I'm closing mine and we're going to the bank and opening up one joint account because I'm sick and tired of doing this on my own I'm sick and tired of you accusing me of something that is not realistic and not reality and not only are you accusing me? But you have zero empathy or zero interest in coming into my world and being interested and I don't feel loved I don't feel supported and that does not make me feel taken care of. What would is having a husband that sits down across the table and genuinely, genuinely wants to hear what's going on and where I'm struggling and to say, we are on the same team.

And Luna, you get to make the exact same decisions as I make because it's our money. Love it. First of all. How do you feel about that Luna? Oh yeah, it gets great because then I have another question. Luna, how's that feel? Is that too much for you? Do you even want that? I don't even know if you want that. Oh no, that would be amazing.

That would be. What if he blows her off? What if he goes pfff. Then you have a marriage issue Luna. Then what would you do? I'd go see a therapist. I'd go get a third party involved. You'd lay the law down. Yeah, because I need help in my marriage. I agree. My husband is not on the same page with me. I think she has to be prepared for that stuff. And if it's not there, Luna, the problem that we see consistently, because this is the one piece of advice.

What I'm giving you, a lot of people give us hate for. Give us so much crap for saying combine your finances. People hate this. But the problem is, when you start to isolate yourself in different parts of your marriage and to say that's yours, this is mine, that starts to become the marriage.

And that is not what we signed up for. When we stood on an altar and said, I take you as my husband, I take you as my wife, or better, for worse, rich, or poor, we are in this life together. That's what marriage is. And when you start to freaking separate everything constantly, it plays into parenting,

it plays into decisions with in-laws and holidays and sex and like name it all, that's the state of your marriage. It's just coming out as a money and control issue that he has and I would get to the root of that. I can count on one hand, James, the amount of times I've sat next to fired up Rachel and I like it. More please. Let's be real, buying your first home can feel like reading IKEA instructions upside down. It's confusing and stressful. And you

have no idea if that cam bolt is supposed to go there. And if you try and buy a home with some click and go lender, well good luck, because you're just another line on their spreadsheet. So here's the thing, when I was buying my home, I didn't want to just be a loan number. I wanted a relationship with a real person, someone who is willing to answer all of my questions along the way and understood my goal of paying off my mortgage fast. And that's why I love Churchill Mortgage. They don't rush you. They don't try to sell you more house than you need.

They listen. They walk with you step by step and offer guidance so that you understand what you can actually afford. So they teach you how to do it the right way so that you have margin and peace with the goal of becoming completely debt-free. So if you want rock solid advice on how to buy a home the right way,

connect with a Churchill loan specialist today at ChurchillMortgage.com. That's ChurchillMortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement, an MLS ID 1591, an MLS consumeraccess.org, equal housing lender. All right, Nico is up in Morgantown, West Virginia, home of the West Virginia Mountaineers. Nico, how can we help? Hey, I was hoping to get some advice on kind of setting myself up to mitigate risk in moving from a full-time job into being self-employed. Love this question. I've gotten this

hundreds and hundreds of times in my time here, so let's walk through this. What are you currently doing and how much are you making? I am an animal control officer for a county, and I make about $33,000 to $35,000 a year. We have an undetermined amount of mandatory overtime that we have to do on call weekends. Okay, do you have any debt? I just finished paying off my credit cards as of the end of June, and I have about $7,000 left on a truck loan. On a truck loan, okay.

And are you done with their credit cards? Yes. They are zero dollar balance. And you're going to cut them up and get rid of them? Yep. And we got $7,000 on a truck loan. What's the truck worth? The truck is worth probably about ten.

It's an old used Ranger. Okay and then what's the business that you want to that are you already running it on a side hustle level or is this something that you would start from scratch? Yeah, I've been running it and it kind of was an attempt at full time for a little while and I had a whole bunch of mental health stuff that I was dealing with at the time that made it not functional. What is the business? It's a custom woodworking.

Custom woodworking. Oh, nice. Okay. And how much money were you making profit before you went through the tough stuff? In that, I kind of was already going through some of the tough stuff at the moment where I transitioned into doing that, because before that I was self-employed as a professional musician. And so, doing the music stuff I was making about 25-30 as well. So have you ever made any kind of income on the woodworking? Yes, yeah, absolutely.

Give me an idea. I want to say during the most profitable stuff, probably about $10,000 or $12,000 a year, but that was with only probably working about three months out of the year or so. Got it. Okay, so here's my rule of thumb. I just three months out of the year or so. Got it. Okay, so here's my rule of thumb. I just wanted to kind of get an idea here. But my advice for someone who wants to go from day job to working for themselves is very few but very clear rules.

Rule number one, I want you to, in this case, you don't really have enough of a track record to get to step one for me, but I want someone to have six months at a minimum, 12 months ideal of the income that they pay themselves, excuse me, that they make in the day job. I want that to be in the account of their dream job. In other words, the company you own, this woodworking, let's call it Neko's Woodworks, and let's say you make, you said you make about $34,000, so I would want six months of your income currently as animal control, minimum, in Neko's Woodworks bank account. Ideally, I want 12 months. And the reason is, is when you go from this day job where you can count on a check, Rachel, and you come in, I want you to be set up for cyclical, seasonal, whatever, where you're the chief everything officer

and you got to go get the client and you got to go do the work, you got to hire the crew. And so the reason I like the six to 12 months of your current salary in the bank of your self-employment situation is it gives me some breathing room. I think the 6 to 12 months of your current salary in the bank of your self-employment situation, is it gives me some breathing room. I think the worst thing someone could do, Rachel, is put all this pressure to survive. That's it. I was going to say the urgency. It's just too much when you're trying to start something.

So that to me is the minimum. And then I will leave once I've got that 6 to 12 months in the bank and I've got a pipeline of two or three jobs waiting on me. That would be an absolute ideal scenario. Now, you're not there. So I would tell you, you're an animal control guy until we get back in this stuff and you can get half, let's just call it 17,000. 17,000 minimum in your account.

I really prefer you to get the full 35. That'd be kind of fun. And I think it would require you to be patient, which I think patience is a virtue when you're starting your own company. But that's the advice I give so that there is no interruption of income and there's not all the stress to survive

because all of a sudden the dream becomes a nightmare. And that's why I give that advice. But you're not there yet. Nika, with your woodworking, did you have to turn down jobs? Did you have a good word of mouth situation where people were coming and asking for projects and you just didn't have the bandwidth to do it? There have been ones that I haven't booked because people are coming to me and not recognizing the cost of custom work like that.

And there have been stuff that I've had to turn down, yes. But mostly it was an issue of not having the bandwidth to be able to be putting the time into it. That was sustainable. Now, have you addressed that? Sustainable. Have you addressed the mental health challenges that held you back? Yes, yes. Yeah, they're currently in the works of continuing to be addressed, but they're a lot better than they have been. Well, see, I would add that to the mix. I gave you a financial

rule of thumb. I would also add in there, you know what, I want to make sure that whatever I'm doing, if I'm working with a therapist or a professional or a medical situation, that I've got a pretty good prognosis on that recovery as well. Because you will always have that waiting for you. Don't rush this is what I'm getting at. Yeah, and this is very much like I'm aware that this is not going to be a tomorrow or next week or a month from now kind of a jump. Perfect. I'm definitely-

Here's the key. See, we don't like jumps. I love that you said the word jump. Remove the jump. Yeah. Everything I gave you was about walking just effortlessly carefree into the future. Yeah, you made a comment you had to turn down, or some people didn't do the job because of pricing.

Do you feel like you're going to have the clientele to pay for what you're doing? Because you're right, I mean, custom woodworking, you pay a pretty penny for it versus going on Amazon or something. Do you think that there's enough there, enough demand to keep? I do think there is. I think that it's going to be a continual effort to try and kind of get my way into some of those circles. Yeah, yeah. Certainly, which is another part of the stuff that I'm hoping to work with a small business

coach and stuff like that to be able to work on the marketing aspect of it. I'm going to give you a book called The Proximity Principle, which I wrote, which is basically for this. And it's very simple. The whole book can be broken down into this. The right people plus the right places equals opportunity. And a fun little book. We'll give it to you, whatever format you want.

And I want you to read it. It won't take you long, but it's going to help you identify the five people that I write about in the book that are doing what you're doing in the world that you want to be doing it, and that will bring more opportunities for you. So that'll be my gift to get you started. Fine, if you want to do a business coach down the line, I wouldn't spend any money on that yet. Let's just get out there and get our toes back in the water like you did before. You only made $12,000 over a year. That's not a lot. You can acknowledge that.

It's not a criticism. That's just a, we never really got a chance to launch. And I want you to really play this thing out. Sounds like your head is very level right now. I'm proud of you for that, Rachel. He doesn't seem like he's got all this angst. He's got some experience here. He's got a vision.

And I think you're all set up for this. Just take your time. Take your time. It's great, Nico. Thanks for the call. You know, that's the real challenge for so many entrepreneurs. You know, for so many people.

I know. We know this from new data, by the way. 70% of Americans, Rachel, identify as wanting to work for themself. Oh, wow. Seven out of ten. Fun quiz. How many, what's the percentage of people that actually do work for themselves in the United States? Take a wild guess. Small business owners. 70% want to work for themselves. How many actually do? What's the percentage? Am I going to go 20%? No, six.

Oh my gosh. So that shows you. Yeah, it's good. It's really hard, number one. Number two, No, six. Oh my gosh. So that shows you. Yeah, it's good. It's really hard, number one. Number two, it's really scary. Yes. I mean, it's one thing to sit there under the tree with a lemonade and go, I'd love to do this for myself.

And then moving forward on it. So and it can break you financially, which then breaks you emotionally. That's right. That's right. No, it can definitely be a huge risk, but stuff with our entree leadership and then your stuff can. I mean, like really, it touches on all of that, which is great. Proud of you, Nico.

You got this, man. Keep moving forward. You All right, folks, we'd love for you to help us keep growing. We're getting new people joining all the time, YouTube, podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts, of course, radio, SiriusXM, all over the place. And you can help us grow by liking, subscribing, and sharing. We appreciate that very, very much. Jason is up next in Boston, Massachusetts.

Jason, how can we help? Hi, thanks for taking my call. You bet. My wife and I, we're 42 years old. We have two boys, one six and one three. Um, we bought our house in 2021 for about 1.3 million. Uh, we locked in at 2.7, very low rate. Um, but frankly, my wife and I, we travel a lot for work in the houses.

It's a real drain on my time and energy. Uh, I moved tomorrow. Um, downsides, like a townhouse, um, more, more of a new built townhouse, um, in the area we live in now, uh, but my wife has moved because she, we've put down some roots, uh, the kids are entering public school, one is going into first grade next year and one will be going kindergarten in a couple of years. Um, townhouse, I'd like to move in, like from what I've seen around here.

A new build would cost like between 1.5, 1.8. But it's really the lifestyle issue, not so much the financial issue that I'm thinking of making the move. So would this be a good idea and how can I process with my wife more effectively? How much would you make if you sold it? Your current house? So right now I'd say it's probably worth about $2.5. We'd probably make between $1.3 and $1.5 million. And your problem, Jason, it's not the mortgage a month that's stressing you guys out.

It's the upkeep? Is that what you're saying? It's the upkeep because we both travel a lot. I like to do a lot of things myself. I'm very hands-on. I always grew up with the attitude that no one's going to take care of my house as well as I do. In the people I've had work on my house, it's been a managing process to make sure that I'm doing the right thing and stuff like that. Yeah. Can you give okay, give me a picture a little bit. Like are you on multiple acres? Is this just cutting the yard and doing landscaping, fixing, heating and air? Like what's, what

is the upkeep specifically? Is like, are you on a farm? Do you know what I'm saying? Like give me a picture of it. No, no, we're on a boat out in Eagle Island. Um, the house is about 4,000 square feet. Uh, so it's a lot of outside, a lot of upkeep, uh, cutting the lawn, um, you know, making the property look nice. It's this every day, there's something right. Um, we recently had the, we recently had the HVAC, uh, replaced, uh, they were prep days problems with that.

Um, we've had every project we've, we've done to this house that has been issues and a lot of managing, just on top of keeping track of two young children and the demand of our jobs. So the appeal to you is I go into townhouse and I don't have to do anything except for HVAC. I'd have to pay somebody to come out and do that, or I'd try to do it myself. So this is all about convenience for you, because you just feel overwhelmed with all the stuff you have to manage. Is that what I'm hearing?

Right. Okay, here's the challenge. Here's the challenge with that. And I'm dying to know what Rachel thinks, but I had to jump in and just say, simply put, to me, it makes no sense, and I think that your income's going to validate what I'm feeling, but I'm going to go ahead and jump out, then I could be wrong. I think for you to sell this house, take every nickel of what you make on it and buy a townhouse with that,

because you said the townhouse is gonna cost you one five. It makes no sense. Now, let's see if I'm right. What is your combined income? You said you both travel for it. What's your combined income? It can vary a little bit, but usually between $350 and $400 a year. Bro, pay somebody to do this crap around your house.

Get a yard guy, Jason. Stop. Put the pride down, Jason. Your wife is right. By the way, you're not going to win this with your wife, and Rachel will explain this. She has a female perspective that I don't understand, but I understand the outcome, and you won't win this with your wife and Rachel will explain this. She has a female perspective that I don't understand, but I understand the outcome, and you won't win this with your wife.

Not to mention, I don't even think it's a fight worth fighting. I think it's silly. I think you'll regret this move. That's what I think. And you gotta let it go. Listen, you need to take on the persona of somebody like me. I can barely hammer a nail, and I am fine with it.

I've come to grips with it. Winston, Rachel's husband, is a friend of And I am fine with it. I've come to grips with it. Winston, Rachel's husband's a friend of mine. He can do it all. Guy has a real tool belt with tools in it. I can't even buckle a tool belt and I'm okay with it as I pay somebody to do that stuff for me. Guys come and cut my grass every Friday. It's great.

I'm adding to the local economy. Rachel, am I wrong? With that combined income. I'm with you. You know, keep some of the stuff you want to keep doing because you enjoy it. Winston likes to tinker, so I feel like he's always like turning around. See, I pay somebody to tinker. Yeah, he's doing something.

But I'll tell you, he sold his lawnmower. We moved into our house. This was five years ago, because he was so determined to do the yard work and to mow the lawn because he wants our kids to see. yard work and to mow the lawn because he wants our kids to see. I mean it was like this whole thing and then he just really you know we talked about it and I'm like you can but also you could get your time back on a Saturday or a Sunday and hang with us as a family and everyone's gonna be okay. And can I tell you Jason it took probably five-ish months probably five or six times,

where he finally was like, this is nice. Okay, this is nice. And so I know, Jason, I'm so sorry. I'm on your wife's side. Me too. Okay. I'm just a big opportunity cost guy. Yeah, I would, you know.

Opportunity cost? Then why in the world do you think that selling this gargantuan house that's got a ton of equity in it, to put all of that into a townhome, you think that's a good opportunity cost? I have no mortgage. I understand. You could pay all this current house with that income. Well. You could.

Okay, how old are the kids, Jason? Do you say three and five? There'll be three and six this month. Three and six, okay. And one's already in school, right? Right. Your wife is going to hate this. And you like your school?

Like, are you guys happy with where you are? We love the school system. It's the best in the state. Yeah. It's the best in the state. Yeah. Okay. I think you're good, Jason. It's not worth the tradeoff. And again, if you had called Jason, I'll give you a scenario where I would say you guys

... Oh, I like this. ... is that we have people that call all the time that they bought a house in 2022 at the height of the market, and then now your wife wants to stay home and your incomes will be cut in half and your mortgage payment now is bumping up in Boston to 50% of your take home pay every month. You guys are overwhelmed. You have two car payments. You have credit card debt, still have student loans

and you're like, we just can't make any traction. I'm losing, like that scenario, we would be like, all right, we gotta make some big changes here. But Jason, everything you laid out out I hate to say it I mean you called more a primary primarily a money show and finances isn't the issue in the situation it's just convenience and then you go down the list and the convenience again well he pulled the mortgage card at the very end off but if he said yeah but that's not our big thing but the Ramseysey thing, you know, you pay it off.

A baby steps six, you're okay. I agree. And again, Jason, if you had said, we're on a 20 acre farm and I can't keep up the work and it's exhausting and our chickens are everywhere and our cattle and it's just too much and we can't, we don't have time. Like, do you know what I'm saying?

I'd be like, that's a lot. If you're traveling, I wouldn't want to deal with that either. But it's a yard, Jason. You got a yard. Pay someone to mow the yard. There's HVAC companies, man. Those dudes come out and imply that. You're sitting inside drinking an Arnold Palmer watching golf. That's what I do. Hey guys, it's right around here. Let me show you. I walk out, I show them where to go. I got the money. Pay them when it's done. Great, guys. Don't care at all whether I can turn a wrench, which I can't.

So I get some of this, but I guess what, we're having some fun with this. It's more ego, I think, Jay. I mean, honestly, it's pride. Yeah, pride in you. It's 100% pride. Which I can appreciate. Which we do. To agree. And I also think there's a little bit of fear. And I think appreciate. Which we do. To agree.

And I also think there's a little bit of fear. And I think that you're going to have to – yeah, I knew it. Of what? Your kids not – What are you afraid of? Go ahead, it's okay. You're safe. Yeah, it's just being the idea of home ownership.

Just afraid of, you know, just afraid of it being gone tomorrow. Gotcha. I gotcha. But you're not overextended. of home ownership, just afraid of, you know, just afraid of it being gone tomorrow. Gotcha. I got you. But you're not overextended. No. Yeah. And you have a big emergency fund? Yeah, we have about $100K in cash savings. Dude, you're fine. You're fine. Take a deep breath and please hear your wife on this.

Hear why she doesn't want to move and then just say, yes dear and move on. You're not saying yes dear blindly. You're using some logic. Listening to her heart. It's logistic. Yes. There's a logic side that it makes sense. Let's talk about nesting.

Okay. Hello. That's a thing I didn't realize. When your kids are in school too and you get emotionally attached, that's a hard change. Alright folks, graduation doesn't come with a GPS. We have a lot of students who have recently graduated. They're walking into the real world with no clue as to the direction they want to go professionally. That's why we launched the GetClear Career Assessment, Find the Work You're Wired to Do, Student Edition. This is an assessment and then a book that is designed to coach

you through your assessment results on what you do best, what you enjoy doing most, and the results that you want to put into the world. And that will help you build a real plan and see a path with confidence. $34.99, you can get a copy today at ramsysolutions.com slash store. Rebecca is up in Los Angeles. Rebecca, how can we help today? Hi. I was looking for some advice. So I recently moved to California from Baton Rouge, Louisiana with my husband, and I wanted to know if it would be okay if you were to become a stay-at-home dad. to know if it would be okay if you were to become a state home dad. Well, why wouldn't it be okay?

Well, I'm just, we're pondering over the thoughts. Right. But what do we, yeah, give us the, is it good, is it bad? Give us the pros, the cons that you're wrestling with. Okay, so it's good. I'm an oncologist. I make around $525,000 a year, which is about $43,000 a month. We have no debt at all. We don't even have a credit card. But we just don't know if we should do this. But what's making you have pause? Let's just take your side of it.

What makes you go, I don't know, I think I need to call the Ramsey Show? What are we wondering? Because, well, it's not the money, but it's the thought that people are going to look at. Because most people who have a statehome parent, it's the mom. I'm worried about the cultural change. And I'm worried about, let's say, he was on the PTA. Other kids saw my kid's dad there, and they started just talking.

I don't even know what they would say. Gotcha. I get it. I understand now. Does he share that same concern? He... not very much. Was this his idea? So it was my idea, but he has supported it. What was your idea? What were you thinking? Well, before I was able to start, well, before I went back to school and became an oncologist,

he was always making way more money than me and I always thought I would get to. But now I'm nearly doubling what he's making. No, I'm over doubling what he's making. And do you want to be a stay at home mom, Rebecca? I do. But that's when the money comes in. Because right now he's making about $175,000. What does he do? He is a project manager at a plant. Okay. Well, wait a second. I'm confused. You became an oncologist. That's a very specific path.

And so when did the shift happen? And I'm fine with it, but I'm just curious, when did you want to become a stay at home mom and then why are we moving to LA? So basically I was going to be a nurse practitioner. I got done with college and everything to get there. I was a nurse practitioner for a year until my mother got breast cancer. And I saw what she went through, and I really just wanted to help women who were going through what I saw my mother do. I get it. Totally. Wow. Rebecca, how old are your kids?

My kids are two and five. Okay. Okay. But why LA? Just real quick, I'm trying to get as much of this picture as I can. Why Los Angeles? Yes. So basically, in Baton Rouge, the most I was going to be able to make was around $300,000, which is great, but we're actually outside of LA. So I saw this job, and I was like, at the time I didn't have kids really. I was pregnant, but I didn't have kids yet. So I was like, let's do this.

Okay, then you have babies and you're like, oh my gosh, I wanna, yeah. Okay. Yeah, you don't have, you know, nobody. Okay, so Ken, I would love your thoughts on this. Okay, cause number one, the situation, if the dad, if your husband ends up being a stay-at-home parent and your only concern

is what people think, you gotta throw that out the window, Rebecca. That's easier said than done, but you can't live your life like that. Like, that's exhausting. People do it all the time, get some in debt with a lifestyle, I mean, like all the things. Like, just seeing other people,

thinking what they're gonna think about you. So, easier said than done, but I put the blinders on for that. My second thing is, and this is a little bit more of a bigger picture concept, but you live one life, and there's a life you want to live, and if you're able to live and do the things you want to do, the golden handcuffs of a big salary is not always the best choice. Now, is there a world, Rebecca, where maybe you say, hey, I am gonna, I don't even, I don't know.

I don't know if this is an option. I'm gonna pause and I'm gonna stay home till the kids go back to school and then maybe I'll jump back in. I don't know if it's like, hey, I'm gonna work four years. We're gonna save X amount so that way we can both basically retire and put $2 million away and call it a day and write off into the sunset and do

whatever we want. Like you know what I'm saying? Like you have a, you do have an incredible opportunity to use this money as a tool in your life to do the things that you guys want to do. But when the tool becomes the handcuffs of a life, that's where it sucks the joy out. Where I feel like in America people just applaud it. People would hear this usually Rebecca and be like, oh my gosh incredible. Go make a crap ton of money for the rest of your life and who cares about any other desire? But you're like, I want to be home with my kids too. So I'm saying use that money and that income for whatever period of time it's gonna be to magnify what you want to do. Does that make sense? It does. I have more questions and comments still. If...

How should I put this? If you could go home today, like Rachel said, press pause on being an oncologist, and money wasn't an object. Would you do that? A hundred percent. Yeah. And is it true that the only reason you're in the area that you're in outside of Los Angeles is because of the salary with that job? Yes. Okay. And if you could make that salary in Baton Rouge, how quickly would you be in the moving van? I would be dumping everything I own into a U-Haul truck.

I've asked enough questions to tell you that I think life has changed and you chased the dollar. Nothing wrong with that. No shame in your game. But I would go back to Baton Rouge and I'd be a stay at home mom if I were you. And I'd have your husband go back. He can go back and make that money. Now I know there's some planning and I'm not trying to make this sound so simplistic, but

I think Rachel's absolutely right. I could not agree more with her. And I just heard your heart on this issue. You're living a life you don't want to live right now. Now it's really good pay. I know. Rebecca, can I- That's the only good thing I heard in this entire scenario. I know. Can I tell you, there was a couple at Money & Marriage two years ago and she was a like a scientist or something. She did something just like crazy smart. She was making almost a

million a year and she stood at the microphone at Money & Marriage with just tears because all she wanted to do was just be home, but she feels like it would be so irresponsible to walk away from something that insane. Most people would never do it. I understand that. And we, John and I both coached her. They were debt free, I mean everything.

And we were like, do it, walk away. And they came back. Oh no, they went on the Ramsey cruise. I saw them on the cruise. Oh fun. And they, I was like, how are you? And the life in her eyes, Rebecca, she was like, totally different person. It was the best decision I ever made. Yeah. And so we get these golden handcuffs, Rebecca. And I know we're making it sound quick, like you're saying, but. I think

I'd make moves to go back, go back into your homeland. I can hear it in you. Change your life. Change your life. Yeah. And then we're not worried about any of this other nonsense. That was funny is what you presented is not the issue you need to take care of. So glad you called, really proud of you. You got more earning potential down the line. Go be a mama. Why is it that when warm weather hits, people start losing their common sense? They swipe credit cards left and right saying, I need a vacation. I deserve this.

But by August, they're stuck cleaning up a mess. Listen to me carefully. You don't need to spend five grand on beach trips and theme park tickets to make family memories. Here's the deal. Instead of having the summer you deserve, have the summer you can afford. That means planning ahead with the Every Dollar Budget app. It helps you track spending and give every single dollar a job. That way you make sure the essentials are covered and have some fun without making a money mess. Look, you gotta start bossing your money around

or else it'll always be the boss of you. Download every dollar today. ["The Big Game Show Theme"] This is the Ramsey Show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their work, and their relationships. The phone number for you to jump in today is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is alongside. And we're here to coach you up. Lane is going to start us off in Savannah, Georgia. Lane, how can we help? Hi, guys. I am 23 years old, and I am about $21,000 in credit card and personal loan debt.

How'd we get there? dollars in credit card and personal loan debt. How'd we get there? Like Dave says, dumb with money. He's buying stuff? What is it? Was it one purchase, multiple? Multiple purchases over, I'd say, probably the past six years, I'd say. You called us today.

Why? And you called us today, why? I have struggled with budgeting just because I have many things. I mean, I don't really know. I've never had a good way of budgeting. I've tried every dollar, but I don't know. I think I'm scared to budget my money to pay off the debt. I don't know. I just pay minimal payments. Do you come from, do you think you're living your life the way that your family live there pay off the debt. I don't know. I just pay minimal payments and I'm just...

Do you think you're living your life the way that your family lived their life with money growing up? Well, my dad was a business owner, so we never really had to worry about much. But I'm trying to match what they did when they had their money and I'm not there. Yeah. Do you think that this is... And by the way, we're not trying to come up with this big bad reason because we've all been there, but I'm just curious, is this impulsive fun stuff for you over a period of six, seven years? You're just like, this is fun and this seems like fun and I want to do this and I'm just

going to go do it and that's how we got all these loans and credit card debt? That's right. Okay. That's right. And when you say it's hard to make every dollar work for you, describe as best you can what's happening when you try to go into every dollar and use it. Well, it's really just I don't know how much to budget for, say, groceries because I don't go grocery shopping every week or every month.

Maybe sometimes I might buy enough groceries one month to supply me to the next. And I have a vehicle payment that I paid and some months it's supplied with other money that I make other places and not from my one income. Do you, okay, do you have a stable regular income? Yes, sir. What is that? How much do you take home? After taxes, it's usually around 820 a week. Okay. All right. And then how much money do you make

is additional irregular income? It just depends, usually. I mean, some weeks I'm making more money, some weeks I'm not making anything at all. What are you doing? Are you working overtime on your current job or something totally different? Yeah, just overtime. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less. Gotcha.

Okay. So you're making around, what, 45 or so a year? Yes, ma'am. Around 40, 45. What do you think's going on, Rachel? What's happening here? Well, I mean, Lane, I just don't think you're planning well. There's just a part of me that's like,

you're kind of just on a whim, like, okay, I'll find money here, put something there, and there's not really a plan in place, is what it sounds like, which is, to me, the reason why you got into all this credit card debt too, is there's not really a plan. If you don't have the money, just swipe it and pay the minimum payments and your interest rates on those credit cards.

I mean, they're probably horrible, right? 22%. That's right. Yeah. So how many cards are there? There's five cards. Okay. Elaine, do you have the opportunity to work overtime as much as you want?

Not really it's more of kind of like a weekend basis, okay, okay, and you're one weekend a month. Are you single? No, no, are you married? I'm single, not married. Okay, okay. You're single. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, Lane, here's what I would do if I were you. Number one, and I would do it right now while you're on the phone with us, I'd get out your credit cards and cut them up. Get rid of them. I already did that. Oh, you did? Good for you.

Okay. Close the accounts. I haven't paid them off yet. Yeah, you gotta pay them off. Oh, that's fair. That's right. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, what I would do is. So that's for, yeah. Yeah. No, but I, okay. So

what I would do is list out these credit cards, smallest to largest. So out of the five, do you know the, do you know the balances on each of them? Yes. Okay. What are they? Well, it's not by heart. Okay. If you, if you had to just guess, what would you say probably like one first card is what? guess what would you say probably like one first card is what? So the personal one personal loan I have is it's 5,500 right now. And okay. And then it's credit. Yeah.

The highest credit card I have is 4,100. Okay. So the other ones are probably gosh, like little ankle biters, probably like a two grand, a two grand, a three grand, like they're probably just kind of, they're probably small. And okay, so what I need you to do, because I think you can do this Lane, I really do. I think that there's a lot of hope here.

Number one, I'd be taking as much over time as possible. Like anytime it's an option, it's a yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I would also go get a second job somewhere. Go wait tables, go do something. Because here's the thing, we always say this, when you are in debt, you have to go completely scorched earth, like you have no time to yourself,

you have no expenses that are going out that are not food, shelter, utilities, transportation, that's it. Like there's nothing. You're gonna be eating turkey sandwiches for every meal at home. Like, you're gonna be eating turkey sandwiches for every meal at home. You're gonna do nothing, nothing fancy lane, nothing. And this is gonna be one of your biggest obstacles lane because you have not had to tell yourself no in six years.

You haven't had to say no, something comes up, you're just like, well, I'll just do it. This is gonna be the biggest discipline challenge for you. And so what I want you to do is I want you to make a budget and you're going to have your rent, your utilities, your food and transportation. So your car loan, how much is your car for your car loan? It is $8.69. Okay.

How much is it worth or what? What? How much do you owe on it? Uh, 43,000. You owe 43,000 and you make $40,000? Lane, Lane. Oh my gosh, I gotta feel this is a giant truck. Oh Lane, okay.

How much, if you sold it today, what would you get it for? What would you get for it? Kelly Blue Book says it's worth 38,000. Beautiful. Sell it. So great. All right, you're gonna scrape together Beautiful. Sell it. So great.

All right. You're going to scrape together $2,000, $3,000 in the next 60 days, Lane, okay? Doing whatever you can. You're going to pay off the difference of this truck. And, well, you've got to scrape together a little bit more. I don't know if a bank would give you a loan. I don't even know if I want to like have that interest. What other toys, now that we're on this track, real quick, what other toys do you have that

are associated with this credit card debt? Any toys? A girlfriend. Huh? A girlfriend. Oh, jeez. I wouldn't call her a toy. We'll just move right on. I meant like machines like bikes and motorbikes or boats and stuff like that. Is there anything else you can sell? I don't have any of that really. It's just like gaming consoles. Most of the credit cards, I'll be honest, are say vacations. And stuff like, I mean just buying gaming consoles. You know you're broke.

I'm only $20 a month. Yeah, you're broke dude. You're playing, you got to get out of this truck. Like that's the number one thing. That's going to free you up almost $1,000 a month. Yeah, you're broke, dude. You're playing, you gotta get out of this truck. That's the number one thing. That's gonna free you up almost $1,000 a month. Yeah, huge. You have to sell this thing.

You have to work. And tell your sweet girlfriend, honey, sweetie, you're gonna be watching movies. She needs a job. Why is she on a gaming console? It's not her business. I know, but they're playing games. Why are they playing games? Go sell the gaming console. Yeah, and lane like nothing, bud. You know, but they're playing games. Why are they playing games? Go sell the gaming console.

Yeah, and Lane, like nothing, bud. You gotta, you have to grow up. This is, you're 23. Like you can't be just saying yes to everything. That's what children do. I saw a commercial. They do what feels good, and you gotta go scorched earth, man.

Saw a commercial last night for Spam. Didn't even know they were allowed to sell that anymore. Lane, go get some Spam. Go get you some Spam. Get some tuna. Get ramen. PB&J. Listen, your home is your most expensive asset and now you're ready to sell. Fast and for a lot of money. But in this wackadoodle real estate market one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal, this ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner, someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and

negotiate the best deal. That's where a Ramsey trusted real estate agent comes in. To find one near you go to ramsysolutions.com slash agent. That's where a Ramsey trusted real estate agent comes in. To find one near you go to ramsysolutions.com slash agent. That's ramsysolutions.com slash agent. All right, folks, we all know that buying or selling a house is a big deal. It takes up a lot of calories in our life, and you can really mess it up. It's a big, big financial transaction, and the Ramsey Trusted program is the only way to find a top agent that you can trust that'll help make this entire process a blessing, not a burden. You can find a local Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Pro for free at ramsysolutions.com. RamseySolutions.com.

All right, Sue is up in Chicago. Sue, what is going on today? Hello, Rachel. Hello, Ken. Thank you both so very much for having me on. You bet. So my question is, should I sell my purse collection in order to pay off my debts? Oh my goodness, tell us about the purse collection. This one hurts. So I've been a collector since I was younger, and more recently in the past few years I've

gotten into purses and name brand purses, the vintage ones. And total as of now I have about 50 of them and they're maybe about ten to fifteen thousand dollars worth of purses. Wow. Tell us about your debt. Current debt is $4150, so $4,150 in credit card debt and then I I have 18,000 in student loans. Okay. And how much do you make a year? So I am my stay at home mom, but I do have a side gig. With my side gig, I bring in roughly about 1,500 a month. And currently I'm trying to put all of that towards the debt. Are you married? I am. Yeah.

What does he make? After taxes and after investments, he brings in about $75,000 to $85,000 a year. Okay. And that's the only debt you both have, is the credit cards and your student loans? Yeah, some besides our mortgage, but that's it. Yeah. And are you guys tackling this together, like using some of his income where you can?

Well, I feel guilty. I'm trying to just use all of my income because this was all of my spending. So I kind of told them, you know what, let me take care of it. And then after I'm done with this debt, then we can tackle anything else. Well, hopefully we won't have any more debt, but tackle it together. Rachel's shaking her head. No, I know Sue. I know you feel guilty, but the people that win with money the fastest, build wealth the fastest, get to their goals the fastest,

they put everything in the middle of the table and they take all past mistakes, all the things aside, and they say, okay, we are in this together moving forward. I hear you. Yeah. I mean, so that's what, so yes, when I sell the purse collection, I mean, maybe if there's one or two like sentimental ones that you want to keep, but I mean, I would do anything to get out of debt as quickly as possible.

I mean, this would be like if someone called, I just have a motorcycle that I mean, I would do anything to get out of debt as quickly as possible. I mean, this would be like if someone called and I just have a motorcycle that I love, we'd be like, get rid of it. Like, I mean, you just, you really go scorched earth when you're getting out of debt. So let's split the difference. So let's say you said their purses are between 10 to 15. So let's say it's 12.5. So you get 12.5. And you said your total debt was?

About 60 total? In total, $22,150. Yeah. Wait, I thought you said your total debt was? 60 total in total 22,150 yeah, I said 40 no no the credit card is 4,000. Oh my gosh, 40 100. Sorry. She wrote 41,000 Oh, yeah Yeah, so you've got 4100 roughly in credit cards. You got 18,000 student loans Yeah, all right. So the 12-5 you do the snowball method. You know our snowball method, correct? Do you know our snowball method? Debt snowball? I'm pretty familiar with it.

I just started listening to you guys a few months ago. So real simple, smallest debt, you list out all your debts, and in this case you have $4,100 as your smallest debt. The next debt is $18,000. Is that one loan or is that multiple student loans? It's multiple. Okay, so you would go smallest to largest. You list them out. Okay, so what is your debt situation, the student loan debt? What is that? Can you give us those amounts? So one of them is about $6,000. There's another one for $5,000.

And then the remaining balance, $100. So it holds. So you got $4,100 is your smallest debt, credit card. Then you got a $5,000 student loan. Then you got a $6,000, and then whatever's left, right? So if you sell the purses for $12,500, just a number that I'm using here, middle of the range you gave me, then you're knocking out a good chunk of this.

You'll have like 10,000 left. About 10,000 left. And then you're making, in your income, your side income, you're making about 1,500 a month, you said? Is that right? Mm-hmm, correct. Well, Rachel, so then I'm bringing it back to you. How do we get hubs involved?

Yeah, hub becomes involved. And you guys are completely debt free, Sue. And instead of 10 months, it's in five months. You cut it in half comes involved and you guys are completely debt-free Sue and instead of 10 months Yeah, it's in five months you cut it in half So then you guys can start saving for an emergency fund together. Do y'all have any cash saved at all anywhere? We do actually and so we have the thousand dollar emergency fund and then we kind of get Part two for a little bit and started saving up.. And we have about 5,000 in cash. Oh, amazing.

We're knocking this out really fast. We're throwing that there. And then in two months, three months, you guys will be completely debt free and you build back up your savings together. So the exercise too, I think of you guys, it's not just a tactical combining money and working this plan together, but

it does something when you view yourself as on the same team. I mean, honestly, like, and I know he may be frustrated that you did this spending. It was a student loan before you even met him. Yeah, okay. So that was in the past. And so I'm like, you know, I'm not a sports girl. I don't know why I'm thinking of this. But I'm like, if you're on a team, you know,

the quarterback throws, sometimes the wide receiver doesn't catch it. Bad play. It's very good. But it's a mistake and you get back up and you run the next one. And so there's just something about this team mentality. This is very exciting.

I'm so proud right now. I could burst. The Vols. I was looking at the Vols schedule, UT Vols. You used a football metaphor to coach. And I said the right positions and everything. You did it right. But yeah, I mean, see, like, there's just something about when you guys lock arms together

and you're both on each other's team, you know? And so there's something really beautiful there. It's amazing. So when we have couples that come and do the debt-free scream on the stage, majority of them say, our marriage is so much better. Not I wrestled this thing to the ground by myself And I did it all and then now we're doing it No, it was like we were all in this together and we we we won together

we lost together, but like we you have a teammate with you and so From an emotional standpoint, I would say dive in and you guys work together and I I thought you were a little kind on the purse situation. You said hold back a couple that she liked. I'd sell them all. I'd sell them all. She could start her own. Do you have like one or two from when you were a kid and you were like, oh, that was...

No, these are just recent purses. Oh, okay, I'd get rid of them. I'd like to dig a little further. Get rid of them. Sue, I'd like to dig a little further because I know collectors. They're in my family and thankfully I've broken the curse. What's your true story? I come from like... Collectors. Oh my gosh. What do you want to dig deeper on her? Why is she collecting? I bet you

she's got some more valuable stuff in the house. You got some other collectibles that you could sell? Yes, in the garage actually. What are they Sue? Tell us. I have all of my McDonald's toys and Barbies from when I was a child that were never opened. Are they worth anything? Yeah, a few thousand. There we go. And by the way, you're doing yourself a favor to get rid of all that crap. Get it out. $2,000. What did I tell you? McDonald's toys. That's impressive, Sue. Anything else, Sue? No, besides that, I think that's pretty much it. I'd like to get in your attic. I'll bet you got stuff up in the attic.

I think you got stuff in that house that you don't even know about. It is interesting that there's something that we get emotionally attached to our stuff. What is that? Well, I can tell you it's the hunt for collectors. It's all about the hunt. I got to go find the full set. It's like a game. That's what it's about. My grandmother, God bless her, died at 96. You wouldn't believe

the amount of beanie babies she had. Beanie babies! Do you remember those? Oh, we were beanie baby people, yes! Yes! Do you know what they are now? Are you ready for this? I learned this the other night. I'm out of the game. We have about 30 seconds. Jelly Cat. It's a type of stuffed animal. Went to it in New York. And apparently they are like the thing. Huge. And we got them for our kids, we got them as baby shower gifts. But we went in our local toy store here in Nashville, Brilliant Sky,

and they had to put them in the back because they said people were stealing them. Have you seen the waffle toy? They cook it for you in the toy store. What are you talking about? It's a stuffed animal. And it's Jelly Cat? One of the Jelly Cats is a waffle. So crazy. And they cook it on fake

I don't get it. I don't get it. This is the consumerism of America. This is truth This is a real thing. I know this because my wife told me that Josie likes these things Yeah, no clue. What a jelly. I thought it was a cat. I Like a jelly belly. They said like like college students are getting them. So get up in that attic. There's more stuff to sell. ["The Last Supper"] Does having more money and less stress sound nice, but feel impossible? Well, in my brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire

and exactly how I did it. You'll learn about the money traps and cultural lies out there designed to keep you brainwashed and stressed out from credit card schemes to mortgage myths to investing traps. So if you're not where you want to be financially, I can help you finally get ahead. You can get Breaking Free from Broke today at ramsysolutions.com slash store. That's ramsysolutions.com slash store. That's ramsysolutions.com slash store. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by our friends at WhyRefi. If you're ready to stop drowning in private student loan debt, WhyRefi can throw you a rope.

Talk to WhyRefi to see if refinancing your defaulted loans with a low fixed rate is an option for you. You can visit whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's y-r-e-f-y dot com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Derek in South Dakota. I'm a long-term follower, long-time follower of your principles. My wife and I are just, oh gosh, sorry, my wife is just starting her faith journey.

We're working hard to pay off our car, which is our last debt, but she's struggling to understand why we would tithe instead of using that money to go towards the loan. I feel convicted to give, but I also want to be respectful of where she's at. Do I continue tithing or would it be wise to give a smaller amount and put the rest toward the car so it feels like it's a win-win for both of us? I don't want her to feel like her opinion isn't valid if I move forward with tithing before she's on board." That's a great question. Well, the first thing that popped in my mind, Rachel, was it appears as though Derek has

been tithing all this time. So the way he says, you know, if I move forward with tithing, he's been tithing, she's new to the faith and she's also new to this plan. So she's wrestling with this, he's been tithing this entire time, or it appears as though he believes in tithing. So I would not pause tithing. I wouldn't try to split the difference. I would, if you feel convicted, you got to listen to that conviction. It's a part of your faith. And so this is where you got to get her on board and explain why you t convicted, you got to listen to that conviction. It's a part of your faith.

And so this is where you got to get her on board and explain why you tithe, what's going on there. You've been tithing this entire time. And this is, it's just like any major marital financial decision, you got to get on the same page with it. But when you try to split the difference, when it comes to tithing, and again, I don't want to go into some theological explanation of tithing here on the show, but for people who understand tithing, it is a biblical mandate and it is not just sort of a suggestion. And so in that case, if you feel convicted about it and you don't do it, then there's a

bigger issue there. And I don't think you have to sacrifice your faith and conviction in this situation. Yeah, and I would even, you know, do the math side of it and just to show her, okay, if we stopped tithing, how much faster would we really pay this off? Because sometimes when you get down to it, it's like it didn't really make that huge of a difference. And, you know, here at Ram's Doom, we do teach that giving should be a part of your character

and what you do, regardless of where you are financially. And we say that because we know as you continue to win with money and you guys get out of debt, you guys start building some wealth, the character of who you are during that time is what ends up being magnified. And when you can start as a giver, even with debt, The character of who you are during that time is what ends up being magnified. And when you can start as a giver, even with debt, there is something in that that creates

in you a person that is generous. And this money that you will build over time will become a blessing and it won't become this golden handcuffed idol kind of thing where you become all consuming. There's something about that generosity spirit, living your life with an open hand that it creates joy and it does, it creates peace. Your perspective changes when you find things that you give to, that you love and there's something about that we always want to cultivate. So it's more, for me, along those lines that I think are really important.

So yeah, I would say with it I understand your respect for her for sure But you guys are kind of new on this and and I think you know There may be some give-and-take in other areas, but this is one I would be like hey I just I do I feel I feel pretty strongly. This is what I want to be doing and it's not like you're You know going out and gambling it There's a giving component that's really beautiful, you know, like there's gambling it. Right, that's right. It's a, there's a giving component that's really beautiful, you know?

Like there's something like really beautiful about it. Yeah, good stuff. Thank you for the question. Mary's up in San Francisco. Mary, how can we help today? Yes, thank you so much for taking my call. You bet. I am, thank you.

I am calling, I'm just wondering how important it is to pay to have my credit monitored. I have a credit freeze. I do have thanks to Dave and his advice. I work minimal wage jobs and I have amassed over a million dollars and my home is paid for. Good for you Mary. Good for you Mary. Well done. Yes. Well, it's been hard earned and a lot of sacrifice. I'm not complaining but I don't want to compromise it at this point.

But I'm just wondering how important it is to have a credit monitoring system. I pay about $300 a year for it. Well- Do I need it. Here's what I would say it's such a low cost to you where you are financially 300 bucks, you're not even going to realize it's gone. So if it if it's something for you that you feel like it's nice for someone else to do it, I can pay a service to do it instead of me do it, then I'm not mad at that.

But I do want you to know though, Mary, you can check your credit report once a year for free on different websites. So you can even just pull it up. And if your credit is frozen, then really no one's going to be able to get to it like with an identity theft situation, even though we still recommend checking your credit report every single year. So you can do it for free just by logging onto a website, TransUnion or Equifax. Like there are sites out there that you can do it once a year for free.

And that's what we do. I mean, it's pretty simple, so it's not that complicated. But I would say at the same time, I don't know what company that you're talking about, but if they are reputable, 300 bucks to you may be worth it, where it's like, I'll pay for this service, so I don't have to do it. If you want to do that, then that's fine. Yeah. Good, good, good call. Thank you, Mary. Now let's go to Amber in Charleston, West

Virginia. Amber, how can we help? Hi. Yes, thank you so much for taking my call. My question is, I purchased a home two years ago and was working a great job, had a really good income, um, and divorced, had some alimony, and I was injured on the job. I injured my neck and my shoulder and had to go through surgeries and treatments for about a year and a half. I fell behind on my house payments. I put it in forbearance for six months and the bank has now finally come back to me to tell me what they want to do. And it's $30,000. And pretty much I'm going to be getting a settlement, but I don't know if I should just

short sale my house or just take the loss, you know, with my credit. Or if I should, I have travel nurses writing out right now. You have travel nurses what? Renting out right now to- Oh, the home, you're not even living in the home. I am, I'm living in here also. Oh, okay, oh, I'm sorry, okay, and you have people, okay, and you need these travel nurses to help pay the mortgage? Yes.

Okay, so it's just too much house for you, Amber, so no, I would not have the bank short sale it. I would just try to sell it. I would go to ramsaysolutions.com slash real estate and we have some real estate agents that you can look up in your area and I would get that on the market as soon as possible and I would get it, I would get it sold. I've had it on the market. I've had it on the market for three months already. Oh shoot. market. I've had it on the market for three months already. It's just lifted too high. The bank now will allow me to try to short sale.

Yeah, I don't know. Usually that's not always the best situation. I wonder from a real estate agent perspective, do you have it too high marked up? Have you marked it down at all just to be able to cut your losses? We did. We lowered it two times. And still nothing? I mean, have you run comps in the area? Is it, um, and you have? What's the problem with the house? I think it's the interest rates that are scaring people away.

I mean, could be, but also people are buying houses still. Okay, how much is it worth? It's $375,000. Okay. But I'm back $30,000 on it. Well, how much do you owe on it total? It would be like $395,000. Oh, so you are underwater on it.

Yeah. Man. I know, it's a hard one. Oh, so you are underwater on it. Yeah. Man. I know it's a hard one. I know, I know. Well, my fear is you're running out of options. Yeah, I mean, my fear is you're running out of options if you can't get this sold.

And the problem is the bank will take it and will short sale it and you'll just be in that situation. So are they giving you a timeframe at all? September 1st. September 1st, okay. Well, so through the summer and I may find another real estate agent, Amber, honestly. I would.

Because I- I'd try to sell this thing with every reckless abandon. I'd try to sell it, you know. Because you're going to probably get more out of it, what you're doing, than the short sale of the bank. So I may even change realtors and just see where you can market it in other places. But yeah, that's tough.

But that would be what I would do. And then at the end, if there's no options, there's no options. Our scripture of the day comes from Jeremiah 1 verse 19. They will fight against you, but will not overcome you, for I am with you and will rescue you, declares the Lord. Our quote today from the Iron Lady, Margaret Thatcher. You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it. Seems appropriate for the baby step process. Got to keep fighting. Tyler's

up in Raleigh, North Carolina. Tyler, how could we help today? Hey there, can you hear me? I can hear you loud and clear. What's going on? Excellent. Yeah, so thanks. I've been listening to your show for a few years. I just actually, about three months ago, finally paid off all my debt. Congratulations. Thank you. Yep, I had about $70,000 between student loans and automobile and credit cards.

Right now, where I currently stand, I have about $20,000 in the bank, I have $50,000 in 401K, and then I have about $15,000 in an HSA. Um, so besides that, no pet or anything. And I'm 33 and I just feel a little bit behind, you know, most of my friends have, have, uh, you know, houses and kids and are much further well off financially. Um, anyway, so it's just two questions. Just one kind of, you know, how do you level set and sort of get past that anxiety around that? And then two, you know, the big thing that I want to do next, I own a car too, so I'm

completely paid off there, but I want to get a house and I'm trying to figure out how much I should save for a down payment for a house for a single man who's 33. Well, let's address the, I feel like I'm behind. That's actually a myth. Because you look at most 33 year olds, the amount of debt they're carrying, you've cleared that hurdle and so now it's all multiplication. You've had to slog through this and I get that and it feels like you've wasted time but the reality is most 33 year old dudes haven't come to the realization of what you have about debt, number one.

Number two, they haven't cleared it up. So compound interest is a fabulous thing, and when it comes to compound interest, if you have life until you're 80, you're going to be very wealthy, my friend. So your catch-up is coming. That's the first thing. The second thing is let's walk through the numbers. What's your income? I make about anywhere between 130 and 150 depending on commission. Okay, 130, 150. Rachel, what do you think for a down payment for this young man who's making good money and he's debt-free?

Yeah, well our rule of thumb, Tyler, is who's making good money and he's debt free. Yeah, well, our rule of thumb, Tyler, is when you go apply for a mortgage, the lowest we want you to put down is 5%. And the payment on that mortgage should be no more than 25% of your take-home pay. And that would be on a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage. And the take-home pay is before retirement

and health insurance and all of that. It's just really after taxes is what you're looking at. And so, yeah, I mean, I would do the math. I don't have the calculator in front of me. If I did, I'd pull it up. I can do a calculator. You want to? What do you want me to do? Do ramsesolutions.com slash real estate.

Oh, I was going to just do a good old-fashioned calculator. Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah, no, cause we can type in the down payment and kind of figure out what it would be. It may take a hot second here, Tyler, but we have about five minutes left. Let me ask you this, while I'm doing this, the question is, does he need to be thinking

at 33 and single, a full house? Yeah, I mean. Or something smaller? Oh yeah, I mean, you could totally do just, you know, a townhome or something, because Oh yeah, I mean you could totally do just a townhome or something because do you think you'll be in the Raleigh area for a while? Yeah, my goal is to retire here if I can. Okay, yeah, yeah. So I mean you're at the place financially Tyler, that yes, that would be your next step is what I would do is the only thing that would throw a wrench in it, it'd be a great

wrench but if you married someone and it changed the plans, but you can always sell, and that's not in your future right now, right? You're not dating anyone that wants to move out of state or something. No, I work at a startup, so I work about 70 hours a week right now. Oh my gosh, okay. Is that sustainable for you? Are you fine with that? I've been doing it for seven years now, so it is getting a little bit unsustainable,

but I want to see this thing through until we sell the company. Okay, yeah, yeah, that's great. Well, we'll keep that in mind. So yeah, so four, did you get it? Is this the cost of living calculator? Is that what the one is that you want? No. No. It's the mortgage calculator. Oh, got calculator. I'm trying to see how much he can afford for a- Oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. But yeah, so Tyler, it would just be, and again, I would have, if you want to

just go ahead and get into the market, I think would be my goal. It's not going to be, you brought your dream home that you're going to live in forever. There we go. All right. I'm ready. Sorry. User error, what do you want me to punch in? Let's see. Home value, what is he thinking? Yeah, I don't know, let's just play around with it. Let's say 200,000, that's what's in there. Okay.

Down payment, let's pretend, Tyler, you put down, let's go 15 grand. Okay. Just for the fun of it. Okay. Let's see. Okay. And then- 15-year fixed?

Yeah, yeah. Interest rate? Interest rate right now is 5.95 on a 15-year fixed. Okay. All right. What do we have? What do I just hit enter? You got the worst person doing this.

Scroll up. I can't read that far, Ken. Oh, here. worst person doing this. Scroll up. I can't read that far, Ken. Oh, here. You got it. Okay, perfect. All right. Should just give her my lap. Sorry, that's what we should have done.

I know, so. I'm basically the senior citizen, literally, of the group. Oh my gosh. Because you're bringing home how much a month, Tyler, right now? After taxes and everything it's about 6,200. Okay if it was before health insurance and retirement how much you think it would be? Closer to maybe 8?

Yeah, yup. Probably closer to 8, okay. So yeah around 2k. Okay that's about right. Alright so we're looking at a home value around two hundred thousand actually ended up being just right $2,100 payment, which is about 25% of your take-home pay Before everything is that doable in Raleigh or the surrounding areas? Yeah, that's tough. I probably would have to go out into a surrounding area just because so many people are moving here

Yeah, I mean that could determine your down payment now. It's impossible to find a house. So that could determine your down payment though. That's what she's running numbers here on. Yeah, so if you go to ramsysolutions.com and do the mortgage calculator, that's all I'm doing right now, just plugging stuff in. So yeah, $250,000 mortgage, it'd be about $2,600, almost $2,700 payment.

Look at it, it populated it for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all right there, which is great. I was over here looking for it. So I'd run some2,600, almost $2,700 payment. Look at it. It populated it for me. All of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all right there, which is great. I was over here looking for it. I was over here looking for it. I would run some numbers, Tyler, on that and just see. Maybe you do a little bit more of a down payment, wait a little bit longer, whatever it looks

like. What are you thinking? I'm curious. What down payment size were you thinking? Because you've already thought about this as my guess. Yeah, that's the thing is I have some very fiscally responsible my aunt and uncle who are kind of my advisors here at Raleigh. They told me you should put down about $50,000 just to be safe. How long would it take you to get to that? I mean,

it would probably take a year to be able to put that much away. Oh gosh, that's a big down payment. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, 50,000. I mean, it's amazing. Yeah. So you can get around a $250,000 house. And again, running your numbers and get really clear on because you're also pulling that 6,200 was from after retirement and health insurance and everything. So I'd go back and run some numbers, Tyler, and just say, hey, if I, yeah, what's the true number

that I'm bringing home before all of those things are being taken out and what's realistic of that 25% of that take-home pay? So that's all we're doing. Do you think I'm crazy? Okay, Tyler, I'm gonna throw a scenario out here. This is what I think. I don't know what Rachel's gonna say.

She has no problem telling me I'm wrong. He's 33. He's single. Yeah Tyler We don't have any prospects on the horizon. Do we for a mate? No, are you asking that? No, I know I know you asked him but it's like is he thinking I'm just kind of all right So so if it were me in that situation, I would save as though I'm buying something in a year So if it were me in that situation, I would save as though I'm buying something in a year. But I wouldn't feel any kind of pressure. Because what if six months from now he meets this gal, and all of a sudden it might get serious? I just wouldn't be in any hurry to buy as a single guy.

I'd save. Yeah. And I know that's, I just- No, I hear you. Okay. I don't think he's throwing money away. Well, and Tyler, I think, oh well, I'm with you, Ken. I think I'd be more with you if he was 23.

He's 33, he's established, he wants to retire in Raleigh. Well, then why would you found the gal? You're 33, what are you doing? It's not a dating show, Ken. Tyler's an eligible bachelor. I think we got too many guys that are getting to mid-30s and haven't committed. All right.

Not seeing who's the guy. Ken wants a commitment with marriage and I would do a house commitment in the next two years, Howard Tyler. That'd be my next financial move. Okay, I like it. I'd get in the market. I can live with it, two years.

This is the Ramsey Show. you