The Ramsey Show - You Can’t Shortcut Your Way to Wealth

Episode Date: June 24, 2026

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Jade Washaw, Ramsey Personality Number 1, best-selling author is my co-host today.

Open phones here at AAA 825-5-225. I'm your host, Dave Ramsey. Chelsea is in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Chelsea. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, the simple question is, should we sell our house to,

which should let us completely pay off all of our debt, rent for a couple of years, save up, and then buy again. Wow. Pretty bad out there, huh? Big move. Yeah, well, we bought this house. My previous house, my husband and I married in 2021, I bought a small home on two acres that because of COVID and everything that happened, it doubled in value. And so when we sold it because it would only fit three of us and there were going to be four of us and others going to be five of us, there wasn't a lot on the market. We ended up buying something that was really at the higher end, but we were going to have about $40,000 in our savings account from the sale of that property since I basically doubled my money on it. And we put 20% down on this home as well.

Okay. So what do you owe on this home today? We owe about 240, 242.42. And what is it worth? Value should be somewhere between 270 and 285. Okay. And how much debt do you have? We have about between credit card debt and medical debt about $22,000.

And that's all your debt? That's all of our debt. How much do you owe in your car? We don't have any car payments. We tried to do pretty well. What do you pay every month for this mortgage? It's $2,200. And what do you guys take home?

We take home. It just kind of depends. I work at my church three days a week, and then I keep my niece during the week. But as I said, I'm coming up on some maternity leave, having a third, and so my income will be out of it. So my husband brings home. Now, what do you make now? Somewhere between 45 and 5,000 a month. Okay.

Combined. Depending on my hours combined. Okay. And then your hours are getting ready to go away because of maternity. So you're seeing the pinch. So it's not really the debt. It's the house mortgage. It's going to kill you. Right. It already is. It's already very high. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that $40,000 had to go that we had had to go to pay for court fees because I had to take my ex-husband back to court to protect our son. That doesn't matter. I mean, I'm sorry for that, but it doesn't matter. What matters is you have a $2,200 mortgage with a $4,000. take-home pay and that's getting ready to go down. Right. And that's going to be your house payment. It's going to be 50% of your take-home pay. Now, when you say $5,000 take-home pay, do you mean after taxes or have you taken out

401K and other stuff out of that? Correct. That's what comes into our bank account. How much is going to 401K? He has a state job, so I think we do as much as we can to match what the state puts in. Do you have an idea of what a dollar amount might be? Just an idea. I don't.

I don't. I'm so sorry. What about insurance? Do you have a dollar idea of what that might be each check? Insurance is like $700. Okay. A month? Yeah, he's covered completely for free, but it's like $700 whether you have one dependent or...

So when we say $5,000 is coming into your check, but when we're talking about the ratio to your house payment, we mean just after taxes, not. after 401k and after insurance. So we're going to add back probably $1,500, $1,500 to this in terms of running the calculation. So the $2,200 doesn't sound quite as bad then until you quit work to have a baby, and then it starts sounding bad again. Right. So what is your plans after the baby comes home and you have a normal maternity? After that, I will continue to watch my niece.

and so all of my income will come back in about six to eight weeks. Okay. Okay. All right. No, I would not sell your house to pay off the debt. I would tell your husband to get two extra jobs and work through the extra debt. That's what I would tell. And he probably needs to do that anyway just to cover for your maternity losses right now

so that you guys can stay afloat for the six to eight weeks. You get the other side of the six to eight weeks, and if you've got an extra thousand or $2,000 a month coming in from working all the time, you can knock out $20,000 worth of debt fairly quick. You can. Okay. You can. I'm going to go out on a limb.

I still think the mortgage is a problem. Even if you had, even if you're take home with $6,000, this is still high. This needs to be close. Your mortgage needs to be closer to $1,500 for what you're bringing in. And I think that if you have any other money goals, it's just going to elongate it. I think you bought too much house. What's your husband do? Yeah.

He works for the state of Texas. Okay, so he's working 30 hours. Yes, yes, he does. In order to keep this house, he's going to have to have a good, lucrative side hustle for this to make sense. That he wants to do for a long time. And that's if you had no debt. Right. Okay.

In other words, the house is the problem, not the house solves the problem. Yeah. And you call and said, do we sell the house to get out of debt? No, you might have to sell the house because you can't afford it. Yes, it's a separate problem from the debt. Yeah, but if I'm in your all shoes, I would stop his 401k today, his contribution to the state, and I would pick up two extra jobs to cover your maternity downtime. And then as soon as you're back, you guys just go into full attack mode and cut up all the credit cards and attack them in that order.

Smallest to largest. Get rid of those. And when those are gone, then you've got to assess you need to be bringing in the door, not counting insurance in 411. $10,000 to $7,000 for this to begin to make sense. Yeah, and let's talk about it from the viewpoint of the viewer. The 25% rule that we're talking about, there's a reason for that because if your mortgage starts to eat up more than that, then you're not able to do the other things that we teach.

You need to be giving 10% somewhere in generosity. At some point, you're going to need to be investing at least 15%. At some point, you're going to need to have margin to be doing that along with putting extra towards your house. And if you let your mortgage creep up to 40 and 50% of your take-home pay, all of that plus eating and just living a normal life honestly becomes impossible. Well, and you end up, the next car is debt. Yeah. Because you don't save for a car. The next vacation is debt because you don't save for a vacation. The next Christmas is dead because you don't have any room. You're pinched. It's why we call it house poor.

You become house-pore when your payment is too big a percentage of your take-home pay. Economists would say you don't have enough disposable income. Yeah. After you cover necessities. We call it margin. Yeah, exactly. And you need that margin to be able to build wealth, to be able to be generous, and to be able to build a quality life. And if you pinch yourself with a huge freaking house payment as a percentage of your take-on pay, it's very difficult to do.

You guys are right on the line. If he's going to get normal raises and does a good side hustle, you probably could keep this. But you're going to have to make that a part of your life. He's not working 40 hours and you keep this house. It doesn't work. You're getting ready to hit the road this summer. You want to feel confident your car is ready to go. But when you don't fully understand what's going on under the hood, it's easier to either ignore something important or spend money you didn't need to. Because let's be honest, you're not a mechanic. And you shouldn't have to be.

That's why we trust Christian Brothers Automotive, the official auto repair partner of the Ramsey Show. They bring clarity to car repairs and maintenance with their digital vehicle inspection. you can actually see what your technician sees, understand what needs attention now, and what can wait so you can make wise decisions without second-guessing. Listen, when you're counting on your car to get you where you need to be, you don't want uncertainty, you want confidence, and Christian Brothers stands behind their work with the nice difference warranty,

three years or 36,000 miles, whichever benefits you more. Go to C-B-A-C-D-C-com slash Ramsey to schedule your service and get 10% off your visit. That's C-B-A-C-D-com slash Ramsey. 10% off, up to a $250 value. See store for details. Skip is in Minneapolis. Hi, Skip. How are you?

You know, I'm hanging in there. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, so I've got a custody battle ahead of me. I've recently had to get a lawyer. and I've been working the baby steps. I'm engaged up too.

I've got my starter emergency fund a little more right now. I think I've got about 1,300 in that. But with my debt and with this custody battle on the horizon, I'm just really trying to look for the best way to navigate this. Obviously, I don't have all the money for a lawyer, which would put me further into debt, which is not what we want. otherwise I'm looking at either bankruptcy or selling my house. Okay.

And what do you owe on your home? I owe $193,000. And what's it worth? $100. It's worth between $299 and $324. Okay. So you've got somewhere around $100,000 in equity. And how much debt do you have?

I have roughly $60,000. Okay. All right. So simple math says if you sold the house and you paid off all your debt, you'd have $40,000 in a war chest to fight with and you'd be a renter. Yes. That's one quick solution without getting into too many details, but that's just balance sheet transfer stuff. Now, what's your income? I gross about 4,600 a month. How many children do you have?

I have three total. And how old are they? I have a 12-year-old daughter, a 8-year-old son, and then the one that I'm going into custody battle for is my 20-month-old daughter. Are you trying to get full custody or shared custody? Probably full. Why? So her mother is disabled, and then this past weekend had a mental health crisis

and ended up in a treatment facility. Okay. Okay. Are you married, remarried? No. I have, not to this. No, not to this relationship. Okay, so you have, but are you, but the two, the older two children, where are they?

So they're from a previous marriage, and I have them 50% of the time. Okay. Okay. So it's just the 20-month-old in question, and you're saying the mom is not a safe environment. As is right the second, no. Okay. It just depends on how scorched earth you want to go on this. You know, what's the nature of your $40,000 or $60,000 worth of debt?

Yeah, so I have roughly $26,000 on a parent plus loan that I agreed to take on when I, you know, was initially going to school. I've got 9,700 on my student loans. I've got 4,100 on a credit card, and then 9,200 on a roof. There's part of this, and I don't know, Dave, you could probably speak to this a little bit better, but if the judge is looking for fitness, it might look good for you to say, I've got $40,000 saved. have any debt. You're a renter and you live in a really nice place. That could look good. It looks nice and responsible if that's what you're going for. And I like that.

Well, and you have the money to fight with because right now, I don't know where you get $10,000 to hand an attorney right now. Right. And that's what you're going to need to just to get started. Yeah. I think I was quoted about $4,000 to $6,000. if there's really no battle, you know, if she decides to just be agreeable to everything. Otherwise, I'm looking at upwards of 15,000. Yeah. And it could go on and on and back and forth really continuously. Right.

Okay. So, I mean, I don't know where you're going to get $10,000 unless you do this. Okay. I mean, your income's not that high. There's nothing in this. I mean, if you quit paying all the debts, that's fine. It's not, you mean, you quit paying those student loans. You can catch up half of America's defaulted on their student loan, so you can go back and pick that up later.

But that's not a cash, that doesn't give you the cash flow to come up with 10 grand quickly. And you don't have anything else to sell that I've heard of. Do you have money in savings or investments anywhere? I mean, so my investment, I ended up pausing it. So I only got like $200 in an IRA. I've got $1,300 in my savings after this month

I'll have closer to $2,000 but that's I mean that's really about it I don't have a vehicle I'm borrowing one currently so I don't have that

I'm 34 Are you paying child support on the other two? No because you have 50% okay correct 20 months old um the only way i know how to answer questions that are super difficult like this one on this show is if i woke up in your shoes what would i do i've never been anywhere near something like this personally so i don't know what i would do but what i think

i would do is that i would prioritize my financial investments and my financial advancement my wealth building behind the good of my child. Good of my child would come first. And that would mean I'm going to sell the house and I'm going to go get custody. And if it takes $40,000 to do that, fine. But I'm going to have $40,000 in my pocket and I'm going to be 100% debt free and I'm going to get an inexpensive, clean, safe rental for the other two kids to visit you at when you have your custody time and for this 20 month old to be raised. And I'm going to be raised. And I'm going to get an inexpensive, then you're starting again to save because you're going to spend money on this 20-month-old on legal fees and to take care of this baby.

And that's what, you know, I think that's got to be the priority. The baby's got to come first. I mean, it's like all this other stuff is secondary. Of course. And I don't know. I don't see a hole in your story to reach into. and get $10,000 and it's going to take you $10.

The four to five is, that's not going to happen. It's going to take 10. It's probably going to take $20 because she's mentally ill. 100% expect a problem. If she wasn't mentally ill, then there'd still be a problem because you're trying to take her child. But she's mentally ill, and so she's crazy.

And so just expect crazy. I mean, you don't expect nothing else. So that's, you know, what we're doing here. Wow. It's tough. Skip. Sorry for you, man. I'm sorry for that baby most of all. Yeah, take care of that.

How do I say this nice? Just say it. If you're sleeping with your crazy girlfriend and you make a baby, this is what you get. There you go. Was that nice? Yes, that was. Yeah. And if you're dating a girl, guys, and she says, I'm not crazy.

100% that means she's crazy. Well, she showed you something. You just didn't want to see it. At some point, she showed you something or he showed you whoever. Got to take it. When people show you who they are. I want to love Skip and I want to help him, but I also want to say out loud for those listening that this is the result of decisions. Yeah.

Bad ones. Yeah. But now there's a baby. And it's not the baby's fault. That's right. And you want to protect them at all kinds. And so now we've got to man up and take care of the baby for the mistakes that have been made in this process. So, yeah, don't date crazy girls and for sure don't sleep with them.

Hello. And there's ways to prevent babies, I'm just saying. Don't sleep with them. That prevents it. That stops it every time. It's 100% cure. And that is 100%. It's 100% cure.

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This isn't about shortcuts. It's about dealing with the problem before it gets worse. Go to Guardianlit.com slash Ramsey today. That's Guardian, L-I-T-com.com. Bryce Ramsey today. Attorney advertising. Results may vary and no specific outcomes guaranteed. Buying or selling a home is a big deal.

We're going to be talking about real estate with the real estate expert, my buddy Brian Bafini, on tomorrow's show. So be sure you listen in on that or watch that or however it is you consume this show. And I was just on Fox a minute ago, Fox News, and we were talking about a Zillow report that's out that's absolute bull crap. Zillow threw a thing out there to get a headline that says 227 cities in America or whatever, some 220-something cities. The starting price for entry to buy a a home is a million dollars. One million, yeah. And then when you read the article carefully, they just threw that out to get attention. It's clickbait because it's absolute bull crap.

So, I mean, 120-something of the cities are in California, which means that they took seven cities that were all little villages around the edge of San Jose, and they all have a million dollars. Of course they do. You know, you're in freaking Silicon Valley. Of course, the seven cities that are around this, that are actual municipalities that surround L.A. Right. Are a million dollars. But Abilene, Texas is not Oklahoma City is not Amarillo, Texas. Nashville, Tennessee is not a million

dollar starting point. So they made it sound like that it took a million dollars for somebody to buy a house and that's absolute bullcrap. The average entry point in America is $199,000 right now. That's the average starter home. And the average home in America is $407,000 or something like that. What is it

right now? But yeah. So it's $427,000 right in there. But I mean, that's the median price. That's the middle price. That's the middle price of all homes in America, which means by definition, a million dollars is not starting. That's right. So bullcrap zello. So that's the problem with stuff like that floating around from these people looking for clicks.

If you want to know the actual thing that's going on, you can go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash market, and you'll get a great real estate page that will outline for you exactly what's going on with interest rates, exactly what's going on with pricing, and so on. and you can start to figure out whether or not you make enough to buy a home in your locality. Real estate's like politics. It's all local. So what's happening in Manhattan is completely, almost, completely irrelevant to what's happening in Kansas City. And all that matters if you're in Kansas City is what's happening in Kansas City.

That's right. And so you can't go, well, the average across America doesn't mean anything. You can say the average across the world, but you're including totally. Tokyo and London, some of the most expensive real estate in the world. And that average is absolutely useless as a measure of whether you can buy a house or not. So that's not how you figure this out, folks. So Ramsey trusted can connect you with an agent in your area that is Ramsey trusted that we have vetted for high octane, high protein. And if you're listening on the YouTube or on podcast, you can just click the link in the description.

or if you want to go online, ramsysolutions.com slash agent. We'll connect you with a real agent that really knows their stuff, not a bunch of hoopla and bullcrap clickbait from some TV show or website that's just trying to get people to click on it. And that's fear of porn is what that is. So just stay away from it. San Francisco, our Francisco is with us in Atlanta. Hi, Francisco.

How are you? Good. Are you, sir? Better than I deserve. How can we help? I just need a couple, I need some help with taking some next steps with investing in my money. I'm 20 years old right now. I'm a plumber.

And I just feel like I'm not taking advantage of my money the correct way. I feel like it's just sitting in the bank doing nothing. Cool. How much you're making, man? I mean, it's my first year by myself and my van. I just finished my apprenticeship and it's been really slow over here. I don't know if it's just the company that I'm with right now.

I am looking for other jobs because I just show up this company that I'm with right now is not, I won't get far with it. So this year I feel like I haven't even made like I don't even think I've made cross the 30, 30 grand. And that's 40. hours a week? So far this year? Yeah. So you're going to make 60 a year? I mean, completely, I don't know how much I would make. Are you making $2,500 a month, honey?

Some months, yes, some months, no. Less? That would be $30,000 in the first six months. Or that would be $30,000 a year. Yeah. It's done with this, it's been really slow. So like some weeks I work. Sounds like you need a new job. Yeah, that's what I've been hunting for recently. I've found a new job. Okay. And how much do you have piled in the bank? About $8,000.

Good for you. And how much do you have in debt? No debt. I mean, I only have credit card. I think I would like $800, probably pay it off like next month or something. And cut it up. Pay it off right now. Pay it off right now.

Tonight. You have the money in the bank. Okay. Yeah. And cut it up. Quit using it. You don't need it for any purposes. Your first goal is to be debt-free and your second goal is build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses before you start investing. And so you need to be 100% debt-free, no credit cards, be living on a budget. And we'll send you every dollar our app that will help you build your budget out and build the system out that we teach here at Ramsey. and then you build that emergency fund.

So take that $8,000, it needs to be $15 to $20,000. And you never touch that. That's just for a rainy day. It's just sitting over there. It's not an investment. Then you start investing 15% of your income. If your new company has a 401k, do the Roth version, Roth 401K. If it doesn't, then go to Ramsey Solutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pro.

That's mutual fund brokers. financial advisors that we recommend. They don't work for us, but they have the heart of a teacher, and they'll sit down and teach you about investing. And you can start your Roth IRA with them, and they'll show you how to do it, and they'll show you how it works, and you will make the decision, because they're not going to sell you something until you understand it. Yeah. And speaking of making sure you understand it, let's talk about why we told him to cut up the credit card, because what I don't want you to do, Francisco is just say, well, they told me to do it, I'm going to do it and you not understand it. We know that if you have a problem, the problem is

generally debt. The things that you're experiencing are usually symptoms of the debt that's in your life. And so you can't solve a problem while continuing to create it. So if you have credit cards and you're continuing to spend them, you're continuing to create the problem. You're just chasing your tail. So one of the primary things that you have to do when you start this system of living is you have to say, I don't borrow money anymore, and that has to be part of who you are with your money from here on forward, because you have to be able to have the fullness of your income at your disposal every single month to do the things that we're teaching, whether it's investing, whether it's paying off a house, whether it's saving for kids college, whether it's saving up cash to buy a car.

You need income to do that. And if you're pulling, you know, you're throwing all your monthly pay, all of your income onto monthly payments, you don't have the income at your disposal to do those things. So that's why we take. teach it that way. Exactly. And so personal finance is 80% behavior. It's 20% head knowledge. So the problem with my money is the guy in my mirror. If I can get him to behave, he can be skinny and rich, but he's got issues. And so I've got to get him to behave. And that's how this works. And part of that is I have to trick myself into wisdom. Tricking myself into wisdom is not having a credit card. Yeah, just cut it up. Then it's not there to tempt you. If I don't have one,

then it's not an issue. That's right. And by the way, your debit card, folks, off your checking account will do everything your credit card will do. Every single thing. Sharon and I have traveled in other countries six times in the last 12 months, 100% on a debit card. We haven't had a credit card in 36 years. No. And if you have fraud, it's the exact same protection. You call them, you say somebody spent money. Oh, they did. They stole Sharon's card the other day. Did they? Somebody started buying a whole bunch of Louis Vuitton and it wasn't her. And we had to shut the thing down. Wow.

The bank called and goes, are you buying like Louis Vuitton in six different cities? And we went, no. Yeah. Web it card. You know what it cost us? Zero. One of the biggest myths about money is that if you're winning with money, you're never supposed to spend any. That's not true.

Some of the best money you'll spend is making memories with the people you love. That's why I was excited to find out about Young Washington from Angel. This movie tells the story of George Washington before he became a general or president. It's about failure, perseverance, and leadership. And it's the kind of movie that's worth seeing on the big screen. And here's the best part. Angel has made it part of a bigger and better deal. Instead of just buying tickets at the box office, you can get a premium Angel Guild membership for just $15 a month.

You'll get two tickets to Young Washington, access to air. Angel's family-friendly streaming library and free tickets to upcoming Angel theatrical releases every month. The truth is the two tickets to Young Washington pay for the first month on their own. Celebrate America's 250th with a great movie this July 4th and a great deal. Sign up at angel.com slash Ramsey. That's angel.com slash Ramsey. Kim is with us in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Kim. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hi, my husband's job offers a $2,000 interest-free loan to all their employees yearly. We've never taken advantage of it, but we think we should. And we're not sure which way to go if we want to put that into an IRA or pay off one of our mortgages. But it's a loan. You have to give the money back. It's a loan, right? It is, but it is interest-free. So it would be taken out of the paycheck throughout the year.

So essentially for us, it feels like we wouldn't notice it so much. So, I mean, if it would be worth it or not. Let's pretend that they charged you interest on it, just for the fun of it. Okay. Okay. I mean, like, let's just make up a number. If you went to the bank and got a personal line of credit, you might get it for 10%. Mm-hmm.

On $2,000, that'd be $200. Mm-hmm. You're making $20. a month. Mm-hmm. You can't buy a biscuit with this transaction. You're burning way too many brain calories for no money here. Okay.

There's no trick. There's no hack. Okay. You're dealing with peanuts and you're not going to get anything but more peanuts. Okay. Don't screw with it for that. And it's a trap. You're going to get caught in something like he's going to get laid off or fired

and you're going to have this loan outstanding. And then it's going to convert to interest because you're no longer an employee or whatever the crap is in the fine print that you guys hadn't even thought about. No. Do not step up on the rug that's over the trap door. George says this and it's so true. Whenever the call starts with, I have an interesting opportunity. Whenever it's framed as a unique opportunity. It's like your friend who's trying to get you into a multi-level.

Yes. This is not an opportunity. Rob is in Washington, D.C. Hey, Rob, what's up? Just trying to just want to say thank you for everything that you do for people, and so glad that you took my call. Thank you. How can we help? I'm in an interesting position.

I make a very high salary, and I had an eight-year guaranteed contract. The company started going through financial issues to where I started having to cover roll out of my pocket and then credit cards started balancing. And anyways, and so... No, you didn't have to. You chose to. I chose to because I cared about people that were my employees. They're not your employees. They were their employees. They were your downline. I understand.

I just, from a Christian point of view, I just... No, that's not Christian. There's nothing Christian about that. Whose payroll did you cover? How much did you spend on this? It wasn't much. I mean, you're talking $17, $18 an hour employees and And it was every couple months. And then she started, then the company started on some my paychecks or paying me late. And are you, my main question is, go ahead. Were you board level?

Are you bought in in any way to this company? That's where the contract is very interesting. I'm a physician and I signed an eight-year contract with a 5% interest or interest in the company going up over the first four years to were out-owned 40% of the company. and the contract was guaranteed for eight years. Okay. But they went broke. No, they let me go because I couldn't afford to have me anymore.

They went broke. So now without my salary, they're breaking even. Okay. So my options are to, it's an LLC. The person that owns the company had no idea what they were doing, and they were getting, it's like a play project because their husband is very wealthy. But he is only on the SBA loan.

He's not on the LLC or the corporate documents. Oh, boy. Well, the LLC doesn't have anything. It's not got any money, right? No, it's just breaking even. It's breaking even covering expenses once I'm no longer there. The reason that she, the letter that she gave me for letting me go was because of financial strain.

It wasn't for any other type of. cause. So when you were hired and there was this eight year and after eight years it's 40%, did you have to put money and to buy into that? I did not. They searched me out because the type of physician I am, I'm getting paid for a significant higher than any other college. What kind of an income do you normally make in your field? Normally in my field, they're probably making 70 to 100. I'm making 225 to 250. As a physician's somebody makes 70? Are you like a pediatrician?

No, I'd rather not. I don't want to give away anything about that. Okay. Anyway, the answer to your question is, A, we're not lawyers. B, from a practical standpoint, if you are completely right, which you probably are, they owe you for eight years of income. They have violated a contract. That's what you're saying.

And you could probably win the lawsuit. and then you would have a judgment against a broke company that's not going to pay you a dime. Right. No, I know. So why? Why would you bother? I'll be honest. Dave, I went through a bankruptcy like you did several, let's say 10, 15 years ago. And I've had, I always feel like I'm the underdog, and I'm the type of person that'll work seven days a week for you. I'll do the blood, sweat, and tears.

And I'm having a hard time letting people get away with stuff anymore. Yeah. Well, they're going to get away. way with it? Because you can sue, again, get a lien against an LLC that has no assets. No, but could I ask you, since the husband is on the SBA, doesn't matter. He didn't sign the contract, the LLC signed the contract. You're not going to get to the husband. He did that to protect himself. That was intentional. No, but he signed the SBA, so he wouldn't be on the hook for the SBA. He's on the hook for the SBA, but he's not on the hook for you.

No, but it's still, because they're making enough right now to pay the bills, so that would allow them to pay all the loans off for the next. This doesn't feel moral, but it's completely legal. No, I know what it is. You're not going to get to him. He has what's called a corporate veil. That's why they did business in an LLC. That's why any of us do business in an LLC.

So if we get sued, the maximum thing you could get is the assets of the LLC. You can't come after his personal. That's why all my real estate is in an LLC, because a drunk guy fell off the front porch in one of the houses the other night, decided he was going to sue. And it's his fault because he was drunk. But I still got to deal with the moron. And he can't get to any of my stuff.

All he can get to is the LLC that owns that house. That's it. I can ask you a moral question. How do you get over, a moral question, how do you get over, I don't want to say it's been dictatedness, but just feeling like you're getting burned and not sticking up for yourself? No, I completely. I don't know that you do get over it.

It makes you angry and it hurts you your feelings and all you can do is distance yourself and then figure out, okay, what, I'm going to burn some energy. Am I going to burn it just trying to prove a point? Because you're going to spend $10,000, $30,000 to sue them and win. And then you're going to get nothing. And it's going to be playing in your head for the next two to three years because the court system sucks and drags everything out. So it's not justice. You're not going to get justice. And so you've got to decide, okay, what am I going to spend my time and my energy on?

I'm going to spend it on something positive going forward. Something that's helpful and hopeful. So let's pretend, let's pretend he did sue and he sued him for a million bucks. Yeah. And they're doing business out of a commercial building, maybe that they own it, maybe it's worth a million bucks. So if he sues them, the judgment wouldn't cause them to have to close down, sell the property and pay him. Well, he said the LLC has no assets. So it doesn't have a commercial building. Well, he said they were breaking even. But I kept asking about assets, no assets. They don't have any money. They just cut their doctor loose and they're a medical operation. That's true. They're going down. They don't have any money. And they might have an asset. If they've got an

asset, like a commercial building, then yeah, go after it. Go after it. You could get it. You can end up with the building. Even the, I mean, he did say no assets, but I got, there's got to be something in there that there. No, there doesn't. They could have gone and rented office space, set up a medical operation, say a clinic of some kind, right? We don't know because he didn't give us the details. It sounds like that, though. That's probably something like that. And so, you know, there's a bunch of used medical equipment in there and a bunch of broke people that aren't getting their salaries paid. Okay. Yeah. And there's, you know, and a used office desk. And, you know, I'm, you know, I'm I wouldn't screw with it. I'd move on with my life.

But it's very hard to his point. Oh, yeah. You're angry. It's unjust. It's unjust. Yeah. It's not fair and it's not right. Okay, guys, let me ask you something. What would it take for you to switch your bank? Because if you're still earning next to nothing on your savings, you need to check out Fairwin's credit union.

And I know what you're thinking. It might sound like a hassle. Moving your direct deposit, updating bills, getting a new debit card, feels like a lot. But here's what most people don't realize. staying where you are could be costing you hundreds of dollars every year. Y'all, the average savings account pays less than half a percent. So let's say, for example, you've got $20,000 saved. You might earn around $70 a year, but with a fair-wind high-yield savings account, earning 3% APY or more, that same money could earn you over $600. And that's real money that you can use

towards the baby steps. So don't let temporary comfort keep you stuck. Check out. the smart bundle from Fairwind's credit union. You get a high yield savings account, a no-feet checking account, and the Ramsey B-Weird debit card. Go to fairwins.org slash Ramsey to learn more and make the switch today. That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey, insured by the NCUA. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Justina is in Baltimore. Hi, Justina. How are you? How are you guys? Better than I deserve. What's up? My husband and I, we keep fighting, and I just want to know if he's right. We keep fighting about buying prepared foods while in Baby Step 2.

Is he right? What's a prepared food? So, like, frozen meals or, like, prepared lasagna, or in particular, I buy these chicken burrito bowls to eat while I'm at my second job. Are you guys aligned on everything else? Yes. What's the problem? the quality or the price, because that stuff is not expensive.

I don't think it's expensive at all. The chicken bowls are 1397, and he says I can make them, but I prep our lunches for during the week. What are you spending? I don't know. We spend about 200 every two weeks. Okay. So $400 a month? What's your household income?

I make $61, and he makes $58. Okay, and you're attacking debt, obviously, with intensity. Yes. And so how much debt are you attacking? We have 45 in student loans, and then 37 in credit cards, and then $195 on our house. But unfortunately, his mother passed away, so we just inherited 104. Which is going to clear all your debts? Everything but the house.

And you're not going to be in Baby Step 2 anymore. Right. And so then it doesn't matter if you buy prepared meals anymore. And by the way, it didn't matter before either. If you were spending $400, I've spent $100 a week on groceries, that's really, really good. It's really low. It's really low. Now, if he says to you, you're responsible for the meals and I don't like this food, I don't enjoy it, can we please do something else?

That's fair. But if he's saying on price alone, I would disagree with what he's saying. It feels like that, okay, let me tell you what normally happens when I've been coaching people on these situations, that we've found one thing that absolutely doesn't matter to argue about, but there's a whole lot of big things that we should have been arguing about that we're not. Right. Like he's still buying $2,000 guns or something and bitching about a $13 burrito. That's what I find a lot of times. or you know or you're buying something else that he's really frustrated about but he's pointing it over here at the burrito instead yeah am i missing something i mean is there a coach person the story that i missed

no he's just a type what you got you guys are in complete 100% agreement there's no argument about everything else in your budget and you're running a 400 dollar food budget Yeah, I guess the only thing different in our budgeting that we want to do is I want to take Rachel's suggestion and add a stupid line item for those things that just pop up and he doesn't want to do that. He's a tight ward. Well, no, he's trying to be very, very intense. But here's the problem. You end up, if you lose the wife, if you lose the spouse over a $13. burrito, you didn't win the war.

And you threw the baby out with the bathwater. Okay. Now, again, she's not trying to buy a $6,000 coach purse, okay? This is, there's no Louis Vuitton in this discussion. There's no expensive firearms in this discussion or whatever it is that we want to talk about boy toys and girl toys or whatever, okay? That's not in the discussion. So this is simply, okay, so what I'm going to coach him to do is this.

You win the argument because it does. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. $13 does not fix your all's life. Right. Okay. So you win the argument, but he needs to learn the art of letting you win some battles so that we win the war of working on this together. It's more important.

It's 99% important that both of you stay enthused and pointed at the problem. it's 1% important as to whether you buy a burrito. Right. You got me? So, you know, there might be a dollar or two technicality. And Jade's a better expert on food. She says there's not. She says it's not out of line.

But even if it was, even if it was $5 more in a $400 budget, he could win the math, but it's stupid. Don't lose your wife for $5. He's right. It's going to be cheaper for you to cook everything from scratch. But $400 is a fair budget. item. Like, that's a fair amount to spit on groceries. It's very low. Very, very low. Yeah, very low. As it is. And we don't see that hardly ever. So overall, you win the argument. But if I had him on the line, I would coach him and say, dude, more important that she's

enthused and focused on the overall plan than the $13.00 burrito. What she's asking is not so far out there. Yeah. It's like when I ask my husband to make up the bed and he makes up the bed, but he does it a little bit different than the way I do it. And if I get on to him, then you get to make it up. Shut up the bed. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. It's almost like that happened this weekend. Oh, that, oh, can we just bring up a real analogy? We did. A real metaphor. Okay. Yeah, that's exactly it. I mean, yeah.

You know, if you're going to gripe about the way I do it, you get to do it. That's right. And so you lose the battle of helping with housework over the wrinkle in the corner of the bed. That's right. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. So let's get on the same page. Let's decide what's really important here.

What's really important is we get out of debt, stay out of debt. We're generous when we build wealth and we're on a plan together. That's right. This is what causes people to be wealthy, not $13 burritos or the lack of them. You really caught up on this burrito. Either one. Well, I tell you, it's flashing through my head. So stupid bags of chicken breasts from Sam.

Yeah. We lived on those things when we were broke. And I hate those things to this day. Yep. Anytime I'm at a restaurant, fine dining or otherwise, we have a chicken breast. No, thank you. No way. Tuna fish.

The other one was tuna fish. Yeah, I remember you said that. She would make tuna fish sandwiches, and I would take them to work, and they would be in the work refrigerator, and by lunch they'd be soggy. When I smell tuna fish, my net worth goes down now. Just the smell of it reminds me of being broke. It's cat food. It's just somebody else needs to eat that health food because I'm not doing it. It's that simple.

I can't do it. It reminds me of being broke. I totally get it. It's just the smell of it. I smell it and I feel broke. I feel that. That's how I am with oatmeal. Because that's going out.

The last time I ate it, it was like soggy, sat there in their refrigerator. The bread gets, oh, God, it's so gross. And so that's the stuff he's going to remember now. They're going to remember the $13 burrito or whatever when they, they're the, the size of of this someday and they're millionaires or baby step millionaires and we had this stupid discussion over that yeah the other one that was funny was we're sharing i had this huge fight three little kids because i thought same i'm as that guy spending too much at the grocery store and she's like all right king genius you do it get your butt in the car and let's go to croaker and we go up and down the aisle

and you know what i discovered she was doing a pretty good job i love it and my level of criticism for her future be deal making on the groceries was none at all, because otherwise I get to do it and I couldn't do any better anyway. But I had this opinion from afar that I had this figured out until I got marched down the aisle of progress. Very good, Dave. If you run a business, you already know this. Bad information leads to bad decisions. And right now, AI is everywhere. But AI is only as good as the data behind you. it. The best AI is built on the best data. That's why I recommend NetSuite. NetSuite is the number one

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Now the plan is built right in. You track your progress. You get personalized recommendations. You get coaching for your situation that'll help you free up more money and work the plan out of debt into wealth even faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the app store or Google Play. Joseph is in Lansing, Michigan. Hi, Joseph.

How are you? I'm doing good, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. It's a pleasure to speak with you. You too. What's up? Sir, I'm a welder by trade, and I am looking to start my own mobile welding and fabricating business.

To get this off the ground, I'm humoring several avenues to pay for the startup cost of this. The big cost, I already have the rig, and I already have the welder. so the two main costs are taking care, but there is a substantial amount more that needs to go in to getting this thing ready if it's going to go out and do the job. The first avenue I'm humoring is selling, my wife and I both have our cars paid off, and I'm thinking about selling my 2017 Subaru Cross Trek, which Kelly Blue Book last time I checked, will get me about 13, 5 maybe, that ballpark. we are expecting our third child here at the end of July and my welding rig is not car seat friendly so we would be down to one vehicle for the kids

if we made that move. The second avenue I'm thinking about is I have about 150,000 right now put away in traditional and Roth IRAs and I'm thinking about taking some of that out to fund this. How much do you need? What's the dollar amount that you need? I'm thinking from all the quotes and everything that I've been putting together,

it's going to be maybe around $10,000 to be serious to have the right equipment on this thing. For what? You've already got the rig. Power tools, toolboxes, cylinders, gasoline tanks, business cards. For gasoline, I would just say that as long as it's it, the 1981. Chevy Customs Deluxe, so this thing drinks gas. So when welding, right, if you know anything about welding, is there is nothing cheap about it, sir.

So you're a welder now, right? Yes, sir. What do you make now? I make just shy of $73,000 a year, so $35 an hour. Okay, and so if you take this rig out as a side hustle and do some welding, is that in conflict ethically with your day job? No, sir. Okay.

Are you already doing that? No, I just got the welder back from the shop. You tuned up the welder, so I am not currently accepting job. So I understand the rig as it sits today is less than ideal, but I also understand it will weld. Yes, sir. So go weld something and get you some money from that job and use that money to upgrade your equipment

and then go weld something else as a side hustle and get you some money. I mean, crap, you can make $10,000 in your side hustle pretty quick. I know. And pour it all back into equipment and get your rig ready. And then you spend six months to a year as your side hustle making sure this is actually going to work in terms of you're going to get enough business to offset because you don't quit your job until you have this thing proven.

Of course. So go well something, man. they'll get you some business today. You can roll up, weld something, and they'll write you a check, right? It is, sir. No doubt. Okay. That's where you get the money. I understand that, Dave.

I'm just saying that, like, when I go out there and do the junk, because I do construction repair. Like, that's what I specialize in. And so I add wear plates and a bunch of other stuff to construction equipment. So, like, I need acetyling torches. Like, if I just show up with a welder, just the welder on its own, I'll be frank, sir, is not enough to do the job right and effectively. And I would be saying no to a substantial amount of work because I don't have the tools needed to go and get those.

I'm not saying this is your five-year plan. I'm saying it's your five-week plan. Listen, I started this business on a card table in my living room. It made $300 million last year. A hundred percent of the equipment in this place, and there's millions and millions and millions of dollars of it today was bought with money. we made in this place with equipment we didn't really like and then we upgraded to equipment we liked with the money we made from the equipment we didn't really like this is my seventh studio that i built that i'm sitting in the first one wasn't even soundproof we had to put up tape in the hallway crime tape that to keep you from walking down the hall and talking because it would have gone over the air that's less than ideal to say the least and that's how this show started

and it makes millions of dollars now. The show alone does. So start with what you got. Borrow your buddies Acetylene Torch. Pick up some stuff from the, you know, if you got to pick up some supplies from the vendor and tell them you'll pay them at the end of the job, they'll do that. And then get your butt down there and do some welding. If you wait until everything's perfect to start, you're going to figure out that even your

perfect plan wasn't perfect. Go make some money. and use that money organically to pour back into the business. That's what I would do. That's what I would do. I wouldn't sell the Subaru with a kid on the way, and I sure wouldn't touch my 401k, and I for sure wouldn't borrow the money to buy stuff that I'm not even positive yet exactly what I need. I think I know.

I think you do know, but I'll guarantee you you're not 100% right on your shopping list. Yeah. There's something to cut back. So. And by the way, as soon as you get a piece of equipment, you'll see another. one that looks better. Welcome to the world of being in the trades. Yeah, you have to have a version one. You have to have a V1 to start. Yeah, just start minimal functional. Minimal functional. Get going. Get going. Make the thing, make money. And that's how we start. And, you know, I've had to tell the

engineers we're wiring stuff in here. They come in with these bids to redo the studio on stuff. It's been here for six years. Okay, great. Looks okay to me, but the electronics are tired. I didn't know they'd been running. Yeah. So, okay, but yeah, okay, good. So what, and then they bring in like, we're going to build a freaking Taj Mahal of electronic. No, we're not. Minimal functional boys, go back and figure it out. This is a business.

We're trying to make a profit, not make a profit for the electronics store. What you're saying is so right. You know, it's the same thing. When Sam and I started our business, I didn't have a computer. I had my phone. And we couldn't afford for me to get a computer. So I had to do everything like this. And, you know, do what you got to do.

Yeah, but please, yeah. So first thing is go make some money to properly equip your truck, your mobile welding shop, and then once that's done, then go make enough profitable business in a short period of time as a side hustle to prove to yourself at least a minimum of six months worth to prove to yourself you can at least make more than you are making now. I actually think it's all going to work. I think you're going to go make a whole bunch of money. Absolutely. But I will tell you that we coach about. 10,000 small businesses and a lot of them are in and around the construction world. And one of the things those guys all laugh with me about, and I make fun of them all the time is you guys will

spend all your profit on tools. And trucks. Trucks and, well, too, I mean, because Chevy ran some Silverado through a mud puddle. And so you think you got to have a new silverado on a construction site so some moron can back into it with a backhoe. And that's, you know, this is, this is, it's a hilarious. Construction people, they're just boys with toys. And we just buy, and I need a backhoe and I need a skid steer and I need this and I need, yeah, you don't. You don't. Don't use up all your profit buying gadgets. And that's not what he's saying. But there's a tendency in that world to do that. Yeah, even the business card. It's like, you don't need that yet. You don't need a business card. Use your mouth. I don't have a business car. You don't need a business car. You need an email address. That's all you need. And you need a text number. Yeah, a telephone. And a phone.

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That's join deleteme.com slash Ramsey. Kayla is with us in San Francisco. Hi, Kayla. How are you? Hi, Dave. How are you? Thank you for picking my call. Sure. What's up? I have a question. Can I get my husband to be financially transparent?

bearing with me as far as bank accounts, debts, and income. So when you ask him, what's his response? You tell me what you say and then you tell me what he says. Not included in the bank account. I'm a stay-at-home mom. So when I ask him, you know, what it's in the bank account, he never gives me an exact amount. He always kind of goes around. around it and says, oh, we're okay. We're doing okay. Does he get upset with you if you continue to

ask? You know, he's for the most part, a very calm person. He just kind of takes a conversation to a different, you know, direction. He tries to avoid all that. So if you said, well, if you said, well, instead of you telling me the balance, can you just give me the login that way I can check it whenever I want? What would it be his response? I believe his, I think he told me once that he would rather be in charge of the finances so that I wouldn't have to stress about it. And you say, well, it's not stressful for me. I just want to see it. I've told him that and he avoids it at all costs.

How long have you been married? We've been married for three years. Okay. All right. Somewhere along the line, someone gave you guys a bad message about how our relationship actually works. And someone told him and someone told you that your vote doesn't count. And your vote counts. So it just depends on how crazy you want to get to make your vote count.

Because my prediction is this, that as long as you continue to build up resentment and anger inside of you, because he's treating you like a freaking doormat, the longer that goes on eventually, you're going to blow. And when you do, your marriage will be over and no one will be able to talk you into staying because you will have put up with this for 10 years or 15 years or 8 years or whatever, and you will have had it and no one will be able to dial you back in. I've sat in coaching sessions with couples and watched their marriage come to an end because they let this stuff go on and on and on and on and finally they blow up.

Now here's another take. I think Dave is right. Here's another way to consider it. I think that sometimes in these situations, when people want to prevent transparency, a lot of times it is because they have something to hide. And what's making me think that is because he's framing it in the way that you have the problem. Oh, I don't want you'll be too stressed out. You'll be too worried. You'll be the one really, right?

when really the problem is he has the problem. And he's not saying, I just don't feel comfortable. I just need to get a grip. He's making it sound like you're the person who has a problem. So that's a red flag for me. And I do think that this has to be brought to a counselor. Because whether it's what Dave said or whether it's what I said, both of those are not. You can't continue down that path that way.

He's real calm and you're real sweet until you're not. Oh, correct. But this will come to an end because you're getting. pretty frustrated. You just called a couple of strangers on a podcast with millions of people listening and told your story. You're already pretty frustrated. Yeah. And so it's starting to build. And I don't want it to blow. And so, you know, I think, you know, honey, if we can't come to an arrangement where I have the same vote you have about our money and we both know what's going on with the money and my name is on the account and I have full access, there is going to be

stress in the house, but it's going to be yours because I'm about to create some stress for you. Yeah. And another, I'll tell you what Dr. John Deloney would say. He said, you know, when you have those conversations, frame it in the story that you're telling yourself and say, you know, the way things are, the story I'm telling myself is that you're locking me out because you have something to hide. And the story I'm telling myself is that if this doesn't change pretty soon, I'm going to, I will blow and that this will cause, you know, damage to our relationship that won't be able to be repaired. That's the story I'm telling myself, I don't want to keep going down that path, right? That's another way that you can frame them. And so either we can come to an arrangement by Friday afternoon,

where my name is on the account and I have full access to everything and you and I are making financial decisions together or I'm going to go see a marriage counselor and I'm going to ask you to go with me because I don't want our marriage to end, but that's where this is heading. This does not end well. No, it never. It doesn't. Doesn't end well. And let me paint this. If you're the guy doing this, you're not taking care of the little woman. If you're telling yourself that, you're so full of crap, you can't breathe. That is an absolute lie. All it is you're a control freak. And we see the other side of it all the time. How often do people call in? They've been married forever and they've allowed this to persist. The husband passes away. The wife had no idea. No idea what's going on.

No idea. And there's debt and there's this and there's that. And by the way, she can't get on the checking account. They're going to get a court order because there's no will because Bozo hasn't really been running the stuff right. Yeah. So, Bubba, you're not taking care of the little woman. That's just bull crap. That is not what's working. So the little woman is like a full grown person and they can carry half of the emotional stress of this household with you and it should know what's going on. And by the way, the unknown is much more stressful than the known. It creates much more anxiety. when you don't know what's going on and you make up stories in your head about what's going on than when you actually know the truth. That's right.

You know, crap, I thought it was a lot worse than this. I'm glad to see that we're in this situation, you know. So, you know, the unknown is way worse than a bad known for creating anxiety. Absolutely. You're not helping someone, but that's not the truth. He's really not trying to protect her. No. No, he's hiding.

Yeah, he's hiding something. Or he's controlling. Yeah. Or both. Melissa is in Pennsylvania. Hi, Melissa. How are you? Hi, Dave and Dave.

Doing well. How are you all? Good. How can we help? Good. Okay. I'm a little nervous. So here we go.

So we are selling one of our homes and we're expected to get roughly 120 in equity. So we're on babysat number two. But should we continue following small to large or should we pay off all of my student loans because rates are expected to go up. How much do you have in debt? Consumer debt is 59,571, and student loans is 124,825. Oh, that is consumer debt. Okay.

So you've got $183,000. Okay. And you've got $120,000 coming out of the house. What are you going to do for a place to live after you pay all this down on the debt? So we actually have two homes So we're selling that one And then we're going to rent until And then we're selling our second home

Actually both are up For sale And so then we're going to rent Oh good so what's the other one going to bring Probably Maybe I think 9000 Because we've been in a less than two years

So we'll have to pay capital gains And then you'll have You won't pay capital gains on anything except the gain. So. How much did you say? How much did you buy it for? We bought it for 320.

And what will it sell for? It's on for 360. That's 40. So 15% of 40 is not 9. No, that's not, yeah. Your taxes aren't as much as you thought they were. That's what I thought. Okay, anyway, it doesn't matter.

Still didn't clear it. Okay. So what's the $59,000 in debt? Credit cards and my cost. He paid off my husband's truck. How much do you owe in your car? My car is 19,906. Okay.

Well, the credit cards are a higher interest rate than the student loans. I really don't think it's going to matter. I would do it in the normal way, smallest to largest, because you're still going to have your income to put towards cleaning up the rest of the debt. And if you go at lightning speed, like we suggest, it's going to be negligible either way. You're going to pay it off really fast either way. But clearing up all the credit cards in the car debt, that's going to clean up a bunch,

up a bunch of cash flow to be able to attack the balance of what you don't get to, you're only going to have about 60,000 left to knock out. Yeah. No, I would work through that snowball in order. Hey, I want to talk to you for a second about love and not love like in Titanic or something. I mean responsible love. The kind of love that moves you to take care of the people closest to you. And one of the most important ways to show that kind of love is by having term life insurance. If you have anyone depending on you, a spouse, kids, anyone, you need term life insurance. Term life insurance gives your family real protection if the unthinkable happens so they can spend their time grieving and not worrying about how the bills are going to get paid.

Zander is a broker who works for you, shopping the top companies to find the right coverage options for your needs and your budget. In many cases, there are options available with no medical exam and instant approval. My wife and I had term life insurance through Zander for years long before I worked at Ramsey because we trust them. Getting term life insurance is a way of saying, I love you when you can no longer say it yourself. Go to zander.com or call 1-800-356-4282 to find the coverage that fits your family. Jackie is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi, Jackie. How are you? Hi, good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I was wondering if you could help me determine a comfortable monthly payment for a house and how much I should put down. Not counting 401K and not counting health insurance, only having taxes out, whatever your take-home pay is with only taxes coming out, we recommend a fourth of it on a 15-year fixed rate. and so if you're coming home with $5,000, not counting, not counting 401K and not counting health insurance, just taxes coming out, you're coming on with $5,000, and that's the proper amount of taxes coming out of your check, then you would say a fourth of that would be $1,250.

Okay. And would you, and with my assets, I was wondering how much of it I should put down. on a house. Whatever the amount will get you to that number. As much as you can, that's not retirement. Yeah, that's a good point, yeah. Yeah, I have a substantial amount of stock, and I don't know if I could... I would cash it out and put it on the house.

Like all of it. Yeah. Can you pay cash for the house? Yeah, how much is the stock? I have about 250 in stock, and then a little over 60,000 in cash. So 310. you could buy a 310 house for cash. Okay.

Is that right? I would still have to pay cash or pay tax on the stock. So probably a little bit less. Approximately, give or take, you're going to be able to pay up to $300,000 or so and pay cash for a house. What price range home were you thinking of? I wasn't sure. I got approved for $400. I could have probably been approved for $500.

You could probably be approved for whatever. Approval doesn't matter. They'll take you up to. Approval just means the mortgage company wants to loan you money. That's like asking a dog if it's hungry. Now, Jackie, you have no debt, right? Correct. And do you have any other emergency funds, any cash sitting around?

It would just be that $60K. Okay. And what do you make? In cash. My take home is about $4,700 cash, like after. your taxes. Like I net 4,700, and then I do have child support. That's about 2,800. So about 7,500 per month. How old are the children? They're just starting elementary school. So I'm going to definitely need child care, at least for the next five or six years, which is about

$1,200 a month. Yeah, but you're going to be 10 years, you'll be getting child support, give or take. So, okay. Correct. Yeah, at least 10 more years. So here's the, thing. Here's why we're bouncing around with all these questions. What we're trying to get you to is 100% debt free as soon as possible, house and everything, because if you have zero payments on a house and you have $7,500 coming in, you could bill wealth very quickly. So in other words, your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. And when you're not giving it to the bank, whatever the bank is, in this case a mortgage company, then you have it freed up to build wealth with. And it becomes a lot of money, millions of dollars, fairly quickly, if you don't give it all

of the bank. So, you know, mathematically, and I don't live in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, so I don't know. But mathematically, if you paid cash for a $260,000 house and had $20,000 or $30,000 in an emergency fund, and you had no payments, and that would suffice for your children for the next several years. You could live there four, five, six years or whatever, and be safe. If you did that, and you took $7,500 and you started putting aside several thousand dollars a month, you're going to become a millionaire fairly quick. That's the most extreme side of what we teach. Now, if you want to back all the way down to up to, you know, the maximum we would ever tell you to do, and I'm really uncomfortable in this conversation

telling you it's even okay to do that, is a fourth of your take home pay. So about 2,500, I mean, I don't even think I would recommend that because it fits with our guidelines. It does. Fourth of your take home pay. And so we're talking about $2,000 approximately a month on a 15-year fixed with $300,000 down. You know, that's going to get you a lot more house than I was talking about a while ago, right? It is. That's going to get you in like six, seven hundred thousand dollar house. So three or four times the house that I was discussing, and you're still fairly conservative. I think I'd go some, if I were in your shoes today, Jackie, I'd probably be, if it were jade in your shoes, I'd go somewhere in the middle. I might not pay full cash, but I might say I'm willing to finance a little bit,

but what I'd be thinking about, and this is just based on some of the calls we get, I'd be thinking about what my life would look like if child support were to change in a major way. And I were no longer getting that money, I'd want to be well within affordability because we do get calls where that amount changes. And it's like, what do I do? I was dependent on this. So yeah, if I were in your shoes, I'd veer more towards the cash, but maybe I'm financing one or two, you know. Before I even did that, though, I would go investigate and say, I'm going to look at houses for $270,000 and go, I'm going to pay cash. Because I've got to tell you, you'll be really wealthy. It's pretty nice.

You'll be pretty wealthy. I mean, $270,000 house paid for, zero debt, zero stress. Yeah. All you got to do is make money and save it and be generous with it and take care of those kiddos. And that would still be somewhat of a temporary thing because you could then, I mean, gosh, you could move up in house in five years. You buy that house in five years, it'd probably double.

Man, that's nice. And then you take that 500 and put a bunch of money with it and move up. That'll get you a long, long way. That is very nice. think that way anymore. Zillow tells you you can't do that. You got to start at a million dollars. You got to start at a million dollar startup house. But except that the typical is, by the way, first time homebuyers the main price, the average home price for first time homebuyers in America, $199. Wow. Nationally. Now, again, I do not know the Harrisburg, Pennsylvania markets.

Here's the thing, though. I can't comment on it. Here's the thing, though. It really is an expectation thing because if you watch any of the shows where they go home shopping. That you're already screwed. You are. But think about it. If you're in California and you are in one of those markets where just to start, you're spending $9.50, a million, what they get is nothing. Nothing. It's nothing.

But they buy it and they make it work and they live there. So if you're Jackie and you can be, you know, in a rural suburb or, you know, a suburb of Harris, Pennsylvania, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and you can get something that's, right? You could pay a lot less for it, but it's still that size that you would, right? So it's all expectation. It's 1,000, you know, it's 1,500 square feet or 2,000 square feet. That, I'm just saying, I'm just saying the idea. John on Fox a while ago, the anchor asked me, he said, what would you pay for your first house? He said, I paid 88,000 for mine, and he's about my age.

He's a little younger than me. And I said, well, I paid 675 for mine. I was making $18,000. But get this. Here's what people don't think about. It was a one-car garage. It had no store. stove, no microwave, no refrigerator.

It was on a hill, and it was really ugly. One bathroom. It had one and a half baths, and it was 1,200 square feet. Yeah, that's tiny. One car garage, no stove. Way to go buy a stove. Yeah. No dishwasher.

No garbage disposal. For Micah top cabinets. Okay? The vinyl, the rollout vinyl floors. That's it. Yep, exactly. The rollout vinyl floors, because they were big then. Yeah. You know, and so, you know, well, it's only 67.5.

Yeah, but a lot of you people would be going, well, it doesn't look like that on television. My Instagram account doesn't show a house. Because, you know, if you walked into a house like that, now, y'all would go, we're going to have to spend a million dollars to fix it up. That's true. That's why when you look at pictures from the 80s, everybody looks poor. We thought, we bought a house. Yes.

We had a brand new baby. We bought a house. And the next house we bought was $100,000. And it was 1900 square feet, and it did have a dishwasher. Wow. And two-car garage. Moving up. Moving on up.

So you got to think about it. The house I grew up in, man, I mean, it was 1,000 square feet, one and a half baths. The little doors were holocaor doors. There were no secrets in there. this house. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio. Jade Washaw, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Susie is in Lubbock, Texas. Hi, Susie. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm under a solar contract, and I was wondering if y'all knew of a more economical way to get

out of a contract, I'd talk to an attorney and they want $8,000 to get out of the contract, and they guarantee they can do it. Oh, you got the wrong attorney. Okay. Any attorney that wants to make you a guarantee for $8,000 is not telling you the truth. There's no such thing as a guarantee. What do you owe the solar company? Well, it's a 25-year note.

Right now, I pay $209. What's the balance? What's the payoff balance today if you paid it off? I don't know. Okay. How long have you had it? Two years. Okay.

And how much is it a month? $29, and it goes up every year. Okay. And is the solar company that sold it to you? They obviously sold the note to a bank, I'm sure, right? Yes. Who's the bank? It sold twice, and I'm not sure.

It's not a bank. It's a, I don't know. I'm not sure. Okay. It's a finance company of some kind that's bought the paper. Is the solar company that sold it to you still in business, or have they bankrupted? No, they're in business. Never brought. It was the name of the company on note. Yeah. Okay. All right.

And why is it that you think you should be able to get out of it? Why did the attorney think you can get you out of it? Because they misrepresented when they... Your phone's breaking up, hon. They misrepresented what? They misrepresented the solar system to me when they installed it. In what way? I thought that he said that we could just, it was more like a lease.

And if we didn't like it or it didn't work out, we could just call them and they would come get it. Did you lease the solar? Is it a lease program? No. No, it's not. It's not. Okay. All right.

Yeah, I, I, well, I mean, anytime that there's a fraudulent misrepresentation in the process, the company that sold it to you could be sued. And there's a rule that the Federal Trade Commission has passed that says the holder of the note is liable for the same fraud that the actual solar company is. And the solar business has been so, there's been so much bad stuff go on. that the Federal Trade Commission has a regulation now that this, if fraud was proven, if they proved that they lied to get you to sign this note, and they lied about the note, and you can prove that, and you prove that, then, yeah, the contract would be canceled. Well, that'd be the hard part. I don't know how you're going to prove it, though, because it's just your word against the salesman, right?

Right. You don't have anything in writing that says that. No. What he said, I do not. I don't really just got a note that was filed, and that's all I ever got from them. Did you ever think while you're doing this that this was not a good idea, considering the way they talked about? Yes. Yes, I did. Got to go with that gut reaction, that gut feeling. I know. I think, you know, what I do want you to do, there's a lot of, there's,

No, there's not an automatic switch you can flip that the solar contracts are forgiven. There's no such thing. There's a couple of companies that went broke, and the entire company was a shell game, a fraud thing. It was an embarrassment to the Obama administration was one of them. And a couple of those companies, the loans have all been forgiven in mass, but under a class action thing and a Federal Trade Commission movement. But the several hundred companies have gone broke. Your company hadn't even gone broke. because the tax credits went away.

And when the solar tax credits went away, the solar business got really hard. And so I think you probably have been defrauded. I'm not an attorney. I have messed with attorneys enough to know that it's not easy. And any attorney that makes you a guarantee is a shyster, they're not, they don't have the ability to give you a guarantee. Our court system is not that efficient or, just. If justice was done, a judge would walk up, look at this and say these people were taking advantage of, slam the gavel down, and 30 minutes later, you'd be out of the loan. That

doesn't exist in our country. This is going to take years with an S. And it's not an $8,000 event, because it sounds like you've got tens of thousands of dollars of note here. But I would continue to investigate it because I do think you probably have been defrauded, just on a practical basis. Now, whether you can prove that in a court of law and get this done, I don't know. But I would talk to some more attorneys and interview some different ones. But please hesitate to do business with an attorney that makes a guarantee. Oh, $8,000, I got this. You're right. That's somebody that wants your $8,000. Sounds like another scam. Somebody wants your $8,000. It is going to cost you some attorney's fees. But they should be,

if someone is efficient in how they do this, they should be lower than the payoff balance on the solar. And again, you're going to have to prove, you know, you're going to have to prove the fraud. And I don't know how that's going to happen here. But I would learn more about it by talking to a few more attorneys and try to get one that's a little more professional than the last one you talked to. Linda's in Wisconsin. Hi, Linda. How are you?

Hi, I'm doing good. I'm so glad I get to talk to you. Sure. What's up? Thanks. Well, I am wondering if I should be investing in the market, given my current somewhat unusual circumstances. Tell us more. Yeah, so I'm 60, and I was diagnosed with cancer several years ago.

And I am in remission. But when I got diagnosed, it was quite advanced, stage four. I left my career of 30 years and went on full disability so I could focus 100% on my health. Good for you. And luckily, I heard of you, right, a couple years after that, I wish I had heard of you decades ago. I'd be in a different situation right now. So I do make pretty good social security disability. I do have margin.

I own my home. I own my car. I have no debt, no children, no spouse. And I have a small nest egg of about $115,000. But that's everything. You know, that's my emergency. Are you living on the Social Security disability? I am.

Okay, and you don't have another pension other than that. No. But that's enough to cover your monthly nut. Yes, and I do have about $500. dollars a month margin. Gotcha. Wow, that's amazing, given your situation. Yeah, it is. I'm impressed. Congrats on the remission.

Hang on. We'll come back after this little break and make sure you get a good solid answer instead of trying to give you a 10-second version with all you've been through. Dave Ramsey here, for more than 30 years, I've been talking to folks on the air, and I can tell you that most people are broke, not because they don't make enough money, but because they don't have a plan. You need to give every dollar you earn a job, because when you do that, something changes. You stop guessing. You stop worrying.

You stop stressing. Our every dollar budgeting app will show you how to find extra cash, pay off debt, and finally start winning with money. But most people won't do it. They'll keep living paycheck to paycheck. Keep hoping things will change without making a change. It's time to say enough is enough. It's time to take control of your money.

It's time to start your every dollar budget for, free today. Go download it in the app store or Google Play. Continuing with Linda, 60 years old recovering from stage four cancer and now in remission, paid for house, paid for car, no debt, $120,000 in the bank living on her social security disability. Is that a fair summary of what you told us so far? Yes. How long have you been in remission? Three years. Wow. Congratulations. That's awesome. Thanks.

I just stopped treatment. Yeah. So happy for you. Wow. Thanks. You feeling better? Sort of. Well, I'm still undergoing a lot of surveillance and post-monitoring things.

Yeah. The cure just about will kill you, right? Right. Wow. It's incredible. Yeah, just the stress. Yeah. And I, you know, my concern is that I'm only utilizing how.

high yield savings account right now, and I'm quite risk averse. You know, I'm very cautious. Is that where the 115 is in a high yield savings account? Yes, exactly. Yeah. If I were in your shoes, if I were in your shoes, I would learn some things about the market and about mutual funds from a smart vester pro, and I would move, I probably leave about 30,000. maybe 40,000 in a high-yield savings for your emergency, and I'd move the rest of it into some mutual funds to where you can get a lot better rate of return. So to give you an example, okay, in 2023, the market went up 26 percent, high-yield savings was three. In 2024, the market went up 25 percent, high-yield savings was three. In 2025, it went up 18 percent, high-yield savings was three.

It's up 8% year to date right now. And if so, if it continues on that pace, it'll be up 16% because we're at about halfway through the year. And high yield savings is three. So the difference for you, and it would not have been appropriate where you were. And those are unusually good years in the market. So you don't expect that. Okay. But if you make 10, let's say you've got $100,000 in there, which you're.

wouldn't quite have that much in there. But if you make 12% on it, that's $12,000. If you make 3% on it, that's $3,000. Yeah. And so that starts to add up. So I do want you to sit down with SmartVestor Pro and begin learning about a good mutual fund. It could be that all you do something simple is an index fund, which is a very calm. It does exactly what the stock market does.

Okay. Okay. And risk, so you own a home that has zero guarantees, but you are comfortable with no guarantees on your home because you were comfortable with the track record, the history of single family homes as an investment. And that was wise. That's true. Okay. That's true. But you've got no guarantee there, and you're risk averse, but that's a steady, calm investment that has a huge track record. And so if you look at a good mutual fund that's been open for 80 years or 70 years and it's got a track record and it feels like buying a home emotionally risk wise because you learn about it and over time and you're not doing it because Dave said do it.

You're doing it because Linda looked at it and Linda is wise and Linda is intelligent and Linda is going to put Linda's money in and Linda feels okay. You follow me? And you don't do it because the guy at SmartVestor Pro said to do it. You do it because you learned about it and you felt good about it. And then you're not going to perceive the risk. Yeah. And I think we should give her tickets to investing essentials just for free. Absolutely.

Good idea. Yeah, I'll be doing that September 1st and 2nd with George. It's a virtual event. You can just log online. $199 tickets. I'll give you a ticket. We'd love to have you watch. Good idea.

And we'll get you signed up or we'll get you hooked up with a smart vester pro too. Christian will pick up and help you learn how to do that on the site. But take your time, Linda, and learn. Just like you did when you're buying the house and you got comfortable with the risk. Liz is with us. Liz is in Green Bay. Hi, Liz. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up? I'm wondering how I can convince my dad to get on the same page with me about my 20-year-old daughter purchasing a home. He's trying to disfasure from doing that, I am trying to convince her that it's a good investment. Let's find out which of you is correct.

Tell us more about the 20-year-old daughter. So she currently lives with me. She does not want to go to college. She has made that very clear. She has currently, she just bought a car for $19,000 in cash, so she has no debt. She has another $20,000 in savings. She would get a $10,000 gift from me. She would get a $7,500 gift from the company that she works for.

that is totally tax-free and forgivable after three years as long as she stays with us. And then she would also be eligible for $15,000. Stays with us. Do you both work at the same company? We do. So if she moves, hold on, so if she leaves the company, she owes the $7,500 back? Correct. So let's check that one off the list.

She's 20 years old. We don't know what she's going to do. What does she do with that company? She works in the billing department. And what does she make? She makes about $45,000 a year currently. And you want her to move out and start her life because she's been very successful so far and is a great kid. Your dad doesn't want her to buy a house.

Why? He wants her to go to college, and he's afraid that if she purchases her home, she will choose not to go to college. But she's not going to go to college. You put it out as a foregone conclusion. Has she decided she's not going to go to college or you decided she wasn't going to go to college? or you decided she wouldn't go to college? No, she's decided. I've gone to college.

My other child's gone to college. She has determined she does not have any interest in going to college. Okay. What does she want to do for a long-term career? Does she know? She's not 100% certain, but our company has a very upwardly mobile track for people in her position. Billing? Upwardly mobile track out of billing?

Correct. current director of customer service started in milling. I'll tell you what, I think she's doing a great job. She's got the cash car. She's got a job. I like the idea of her moving out. I think she's ready to move out. I don't think she needs to buy a house right now.

I don't think she's ready for that. I'd love if she got an apartment and continue to rent and save because I think the $7,500 is off the table. I would not want her to take that. Yes, that's off the table. So she's got $30,000. But really, she's got less than that because she would need three to six months. months of expenses for an emergency fund. In her case, I'd say six months of expenses.

Yeah. And so for that reason, she's just not ready financially yet. And she, and let me add this, financially not quite yet. And I would love to see somebody rent for a while before they buy to just go straight from mom and dad's house to I have a place that I own. That's a major, I mean, you know what home ownership feels like. Yeah, move into a one bedroom apartment, buy your own milk for a while. Yeah. Now, she does pay rent to me. I don't care. But it's not her place. She doesn't have to worry about if moisture is building up in the crawl space.

You know what I'm saying? I want her to be out on her own and none of you telling her what to do. And let's work on that for a while and then talk about buying. The second thing is I don't want her career to be decided as a track at one company. I want her to choose a career. What does she want to be doing, making a lot of? of money at 30 years old, 10 years from today, and what must be true that's not true today about her because she probably needs some kind of continuing education. Very few people with

zero continuing education after high school do well. Now, we have a lot of, quote, high school graduates that become very successful. That's true. But they have continued their education, even if they didn't do it at a four-year college. They go to seminars, they read books, They've got a constant track. They're on a personal growth, and they're very aggressive. Dave Thomas comes to mind that started Wendy's. All right. High school graduate, okay?

The Wendy's Hamburger King. And not Burger King, Hamburger King of Wendy's, right? And so, anyway, yeah. So I want her to think about what she wants to be. And then if that company is the best place for her to be that, that's fine. But just saying, oh, she's got a great track at the company. That's not a career. job. The problem with online investing advice, you hear so many different opinions and you're left

wondering if you're even doing it right. And that's why we created investing essentials. Join me and Dave Ramsey at this two-night virtual event to learn Dave's playbook for investing and wealth planning. We'll break down 401k's mutual funds, passing on wealth, and more. So join us September 1st and 2nd. Ticket start at $199.00. You can get yours today at ramsysolutions.com slash events or just click the link in the show notes. Our question of the day is sponsored by Y. Refi. If missed private student loan payments are keeping you from making progress towards your goals, Y. Refi may be able to help you explore refinancing with a low fixed rate and a payment you can manage.

Visit yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's why refi.com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Today's question is coming from Kevin in Oregon. He says, a lady recently called in. show regarding giving up her late husband's firefighter pension to get married again. You calculated her $50,000 annual pension income as equal to a $500,000 investment. My question is, where do you get, where do you invest to get a 10% return like that? All right. So he's wondering, and I think a lot of people ask that question because we quote, you know, if you invest the way that we teach, you know, you can expect an annualized rate of return of between 10 and 11%. And that is true.

If you invest the way that we speak about, you can say that. Now, I'll start by saying, if you just look at the S&P 500, which is just baseline index, if you look at that from inception, if you look at it from 1926, you're going to see annualized rate of return of over 10%. That's what you're going to find. About 11.8. It doesn't mean that every year it's that. I mean, just the last call, Dave quoted the last three. years was in the upper 20s. So there's years where it's very high, unseasonably high, I'd say, and there's years where we have dips and there's months where we have drops. But if you

add all that together and accumulate all of that information, you're going to find an annualized rate of return of around 10 to 11 percent, 11.8, which is what Dave just said. Now, that's S&P 500. We're telling you, hey, if you do it our way, you're investing in a mix of four different types of mutual funds. Right? We say growth, growth and income, aggressive growth. and international. And when you do that, these are funds that are seeking to beat the average rate of return of the S&P 500. So you really should be doing even better than the 10 or 11 percent that we tend to quote around here. So that's where we're getting those numbers before. We're not talking about after inflation or this and that. We're just saying that's the rate of

return. That's what it is. And so that's where that comes from. Dave, do you want to add anything to that? No, that's the average annual rate of return. That's what it is. And so the stock market has averaged. The S&P 500 is the most accurate measure of the stock market has averaged 11.8% since it started. And again, in 2023, it was 26%, 2024, it was 25%. 2025 is 18%. This year it's up 8 as of today. And this is halfway through the year. So if it annualized that, that'd be 16. So all of those four years, will beat the average. But that means there are some years that don't beat the average.

That's where an average comes from. But it still beats high yield savings account of 3 or 4 percent every year, except occasionally it's down. But, I mean, if you go back and look, the number of years that it was actually down, it's almost none, okay? Three or four out of 25, that kind of thing. And so, you know, you just, that's what you're going to. you're looking at. And, well, I've always heard, well, I know what you always heard, but you heard

from people that didn't know what they were talking about. That's the actual deal. Go pull it up. Pull up the S&P 500 index and look at it for yourself. You can look at the charts. Google will pop them right up for you. And it's pretty simple to do. It's not really rocket science. So that, and so the other reason I use 10% on something like that is it's really easy for everyone listening to visualize. Yeah. 50K is 10%. of 500, you don't have to do a lot of, you know, fancy math to get there. I mean, you can do that if you got out of the third grade. And so I can, I can put that out there and someone riding in their car, I don't have a car wreck trying to calculate this, right? Exactly. And so it's just,

we throw it out there. But that's a, you know, again, some years might be eight and some years might be 28, but the average is about 11.8. And so that's where that comes from. Some, Samantha is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Samantha. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Okay, so my question is, I'm about 20K in debt, 17 of that being on a car loan. But I currently live in my mother's home. She owns it. I don't pay rent or mortgage. But she can be kind of controlling, and, you know, she has threatened for me to leave at any time. And my question is, do I pause baby step number two and paying off all this debt and leave

or do I try to pay off all this debt first? How old are you? I'm 33. And why are you at 33 years old living in your mother's home? Oh, well, I was in a domestic violence situation until my mid-20s. I got divorced with three young kids. And then I was doing with my parents where my dad was sick and dying. He passed away.

And then my mom's sister's husband also passed away. So they moved into a home together. And my mom gave me this home. But she never signed it over to me. Okay. Got it. That makes a lot more sense. Okay.

And how much do you make a year? About 45. And how old are your babies now? They are 9, 10, and 11. Okay. And you got an awfully expensive car, don't you? Yeah, I messed up on that really bad. Yeah, you did.

Well, I can't tell from, I mean, it sounds like you've gone from one toxic relationship to another to another. Yeah. And now the latest one is your mother. Yeah, why is she threatening to kick you out when you say she's controlling, what's that mean? On the day to day, she's not so bad. Like, she tells me I can do whatever I want that this is my house or whatever. But then, like, if I were to make any kind of decision that she's not in alignment with, she's like, well, then you can just leave. About the house or about your life?

Anything. Give me an example. Okay. We have a vacation coming in August that we really can't afford. Well, I can't afford to go on, but she's paid for everything. I'm afraid to even tell her I don't want to go because I'm afraid that will cause back. class. Okay, I see. Okay. Your mom has a lot of money. Does she, does she wealthy? Middle class. She's doing okay. So here's what I would do. I would leave. Yeah. Life's too short.

You know, at some point in your life have to be able to make a decision without a domestic violence partner or an abusive mother. At some point in your life, you've got to reach a point that you get some healing. And you need to get away from this. What do you take home every month? How can we find you something you can afford? Monthly, I'm about $26. Yeah, you're going to be a super cheap rental of some kind that's going to be uncomfortable.

But you've got to choose which hard thing you're going to do. Hard thing is putting up with your mother or hard things. A hard thing is putting up with a rent that's not a rental place that's not pleasant because that's where you're going. Or the other hard thing is put up with your mother. Now, what I might do is this. I might catch her in a good mood and say, Mom, we've got to change the way we interact. And after everything I have been through, I cannot sit on an unstable situation where every time you get mad, you threaten to. throw me out. And so if you're not going to deed this to me by the end of next week,

I'm going to have to move, Mom. And give her a shot at, give her a shot at deeding it to you. Right. I've previously tried that. The home needs repairs. Then leave. And I brought it up to her. Then leave. I was like, okay. Then leave. If you know, if you're not going to play through on that, Samantha, if you're not going to stand up and say, either give it to me and I'll deal with the repairs and I'll deal with the house and it'll be mine and but I can't live in a situation emotionally anymore where someone's constantly pulling the rug out from under me where every time I go to sit down somebody pulls the chair out like a like a second grade prank and I'm my life I can't I've been through too much to live like this anymore.

And if you're not going to deed it to me right now, I'm gone. Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here, and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories. But you know what else there's more of? Spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the everything.

Every Dollar Budget app because it helps you plan your money, track your spending, and find more margin in your budget so that you can put extra cash towards the goals that matter most. Enjoy your summer without the money stress. Download the Every Dollar app in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today. Our scripture of the day, James 5 and 16, therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. Les Brown said,

In the end, it is the person you become, not the things you to achieve. That is most important. Well, we wish we could get to every call here on the show and every question, but we can't. You can't get through on the lines most of the time. But, hey, we appreciate those of you that do. If you can't get through and you got a money question, you want to answer over your situation, head over to our website.

Use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on only proven Ramsey principles. It's going to give you a Ramsey only answer. You'll get an answer the same way. We'd answer it right here on the show. Ask your question today at Ramsey Solutions.com or just click the link in the description or the podcast or on YouTube. Katie is with us in Seattle. Hi, Katie.

How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? Great. Okay. So I have, my husband and I have a bit of a quarrel. So we're on Baby Step 2, and we're trying to decide how you decide what a necessary, what's a necessary expense because we're differing on something. What are the things you're differing on? It's really one thing. Most of the budget when we've gone through, gone well.

But we have someone who cleans our home once a month because we both work full-time. We both push 50, 60 hours outside of the home. We have four children, and it's just... How much is that expense? It's $320 a month. And what's your household income? 240. Okay.

How old are the kids? They might be your cleaning service. That's why I'm asking. I wish they were. Less than one, three, nine, and we have an 11-year-old. You mean you can't get less than one to do any work? Wow, shocking. I wish.

I wish. Wow. Who's taking care of less than one while you're doing 60 hours a week? We have daycare, so we just try to work our schedules so that, you know, the other one is. Okay. And is the 60, that high amount of hours, that's to pay off? debt, right? That's a temporary thing, or is that just the nature of your jobs? Right now, the nature of our jobs, mine should be easing up in the next couple months just because

it's not, I'm feeling very burned out, but my husband's will be for the foreseeable future. What's the amount of debt again, not counting the house? Oh, yeah. We have 87 in student loans and then another 40 in consumer. Eight of that's a car. And then the rest is credit cards. So just one car? We have two cars, but the other one fade off, yeah. Okay. Okay.

With your income and your hours, 325 is not the end of the world. It's not going to keep you from winning. Yeah. Okay. And the fact that you're stressing over it means you really are squeezing this budget. Trying. Okay. That means that's a good sign because it means you guys are considering everything.

Yeah. You know, you're pushing the pendulum to the other side because you make a lot of money. And if you push it away, if you really are squeezing everything else out, you're going to knock us dead out really quick, aren't you? I think we could have it done. You know, we have daycare and all that, but I think still in under a year easily. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and 325 doesn't change that.

That was my thought. Yeah. And it isn't a representation. The way you've described. Now, granted, you're making the case for the 325, so we'll have to consider that. Yeah. But even with that said, the way you're discussing it and the fact that you are discussing it tells me everything else is probably squeezed pretty good. I would like to think so.

It's really been over the last couple months, and we're just every month we tighten down more and more. Now, what you could do is you could, if you really wanted to get extreme, you could test it because I'm guessing 320. Is that somebody coming once a week? Yeah. No, it's once a month. That's once a month. You need to find a different cleaning service. That's what I'm going to tell you, because that's expensive.

But I was going to say, if you wanted to test it, you could always go back. If you test it and everything just goes crazy and your house is a mess, you could always go back. But if you wanted to test it and say, can we get through, can we make this work? You could. Not saying you have to. Because I think you have cut out eating out, right? Yes. And you have cut out vacations, right? It's probably been the most painful. You have cut out vacation. Yeah, they're not going anywhere. Okay. And so the two of you are working together and you're pushing everything through. And again, it's, does the math matter or does this represent something emotionally in the behavior that matters? And I would say no on both of those after talking to you. So that means I keep them. Let me go back to this a second, because I'm a mom too. I have two. I don't have four. But when you said once a month, it did hit me. different because when the part of the cleaning service that you want is the things that you're not

going to touch right like it's you want them to clean the blinds and you want them to you know vacuum in the couch those are things you don't have time to do but the day to day stuff of doing the dishes and sweeping the floor and vacuuming you have to do that stuff anyway so I kind of for that reason I kind of do feel like because you still have to do the laundry right like you got to wear clothes so I kind of feel like you don't need this. If you said they're coming once a week and that's what's keeping things going, that feels different than they're, because what are they doing once a month? They like deep clean, so they get like, you know, baseball boards and floors and windows.

Yeah, I don't, I don't. I actually think, I think I disagree. I think that you could let that go for a while. And if there's a little bit of dust on the blends, I think you'll, you would be okay. We're absolutely no help. We're not. Because Jade is on your husband's side and I'm on your side. So we're no good at all.

We're no help at all. I think it's good either way, truthfully. There's not a wrong answer. There's not a slap my hand on the table and go, you people are stupid. She does have an 11-year-old, though. She does have an 11-year-old who can get up on the swiffer up on the ceiling fan. That's all she needs. Wow. Send them to the salt mines. I like it.

Dave, come on now. You know the stuff you were doing at 11. I don't have to tell you what I was doing at 11. We were cleaning. We were the cleaning service. Yeah. Well, that's true. Not the one-year-old, but yeah. No, just the 11-year-old. Again, I'm always good. If somebody is smart enough to ask the question, they're probably okay. That's when they don't ask the question, the ones listening that we just gave permission accidentally. Yeah. That scares me more than Katie. I agree with that. I do agree with that. So, Katie, you and your husband talk it through. You could try it with or without.

But what's probably going to happen is you guys are going to continue to get more and more and more intense, and you're probably going to cut them for three or four months and finish off the debt. And then when they come back, you'll appreciate it. And it'll probably be something like that that you decide on. But again, I don't think there's an absolute one answers in the stupid column and ones in the smart column. I'm surprised. Usually you're the more frugal one. Yeah, I am. But I'm always looking at ratios.

Yeah, that's true. And they do, 240,000 a year. If they were bringing home $3,000 a month, maids gone. No brainer. You know, but they're making $250,000 a year. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, and she's not working 20 hours a week part time. She's working 80 hours, 60, 80 hours.

She just has a high. That's the other thing. She's not there. So, you know, but if you call me up and go, well, I have a remote work from home. Oh, shut up and clean the house. You know, really. I would have been down, you know, like that whole different thing. But I'm just listening to the whole picture and the ratios.

And that's very interesting. It's an interesting discussion. It is. Very cool. Usually we're telling people, yeah, cut back subscriptions. If you're investing, pause investing. You won't regret. regret it if you cut her.

No. And bring them back late. Bring somebody back later. You'll be okay. You'll be okay. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace,

and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus.