The Ramsey Show - You Cant Win With Money When Your Relationships Are Messy

Starting point is 00:00:00 This episode is filled with some of our best calls and advice. But unless you take what you hear and put it to work in your own life, you'll be stuck with the same money stress in 2026. So make a change and download every dollar today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. This is The Ramsey Show. And I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw.

Starting point is 00:00:39 and we're answering your question. So give us a call at AAA 825-5-2-2-25. And we'll be talking about your life, your money, career relationships, anything and everything, we are here for you. So let's start off in Boston with Miguel. Hi, welcome to the show. Hey, how's it going? We're doing well.

Starting point is 00:01:01 How can we help today? So today I wanted to ask, so I have a business and I'm contemplating on what should be next because I'm also 147,000 in debt, and that's included in credit cards, student loans, and a car payment. Okay. So I want to know if I should sell a business for what I think I give value for, and then start fresh and use that lump sum of money to attack, like, the debt. What kind of business are you in?

Starting point is 00:01:31 It's a printing business, so merchandise. What would cause you to sell the business? versus using profit from the business to pay down the debt? I think it's just because I'll collect a lump of money and the business right now is kind of fluctuating. It's up and down. And I'm also a loan in it. So it's a lot of my time where I feel like if I could change the...

Starting point is 00:02:00 If you didn't have debt, Miguel, would you stay in this business? Or would you still want out? Yeah. You would stay in? I'll potentially stay in the business. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:11 because I look at this as, I mean, because how much would you sell it for? How much could you get out of it? Minus all of your liabilities and everything. About 30 grand. How much are you making off of it every year? How much are you bringing home? So this is actually like my first year in it. So I'd know at the end of the year, but roughly after everything, about $1,500 a month.

Starting point is 00:02:40 $1,500 a month. Is this what you do full? time or is this kind of like a side business? It's full time. Well, I don't know that I would sell it, but I would not have this being my full-time job right now because of what it's generating. It feels like it's... How are you guys living?

Starting point is 00:02:58 Is your wife work? No, I'm single. You're single. How are you living off of $1,500 a month? Just making it happen, honestly. But what's your rent, though? Like real numbers. I paid a studio.

Starting point is 00:03:16 it's about 850. Mm-hmm. What else? Car? Car, yeah, 450, and then... Ooh, 450. Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:03:26 And then utilities, I guess that's put in with the rent, and then just you're scrapping on food. No insurance. Yeah. Do you have insurance? Health insurance? My car is... No, no, no, no health insurance.

Starting point is 00:03:40 Yeah. So you're not on a living wage right now. Mm-hmm. And so while I think it's cool to have a printing business, it eats like a part-time side hustle when we look at the income that it's bringing. So I would be looking, as you're working this, I'd be looking for a full-time job. What are your skills? What have you done in the past before you did this business? I technically just hopped off school and then save money and then started this business.

Starting point is 00:04:12 Yeah. How many hours a week? I've never really. How many hours a week are you putting into this? A lot. It's probably like 50, 60. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:24 Okay, so if you did, do you have a buyer out there? Like when you say sell the business, I mean, what's that? Have you looked into that option? Is there a realistic option? Yeah, I have a few options. And that's, when I need the business, I just mean like the equipment and everything. Yeah. Oh, I hear what you're saying.

Starting point is 00:04:43 Not necessarily. Yeah. Because that's where the debt is, right? What did you invest in to do this business? Like what equipment do you have? Oh, I have like DTG printer, heat presses, and a couple other machines, laptops and stuff like that. I'll tell you, you haven't been doing the business long,

Starting point is 00:05:09 so I don't want to say that there's no future in it. But how much of this debt is business debt? Like how much of it came from the business? I'm about $8,000. Okay, that's not bad. Of the 147, that's only eight. I'm inclined for you to continue. What I want to know is what's the minimal amount of hours that you can put in it to keep the $1,500 so that you can search for something else?

Starting point is 00:05:36 Is there any feasible way to do that? Yeah, it's possible. That's also another plan I've been thinking of, because I have a location in a premier, like downtown area. was thinking of just getting rid of the space, trying to find something smaller, and then kind of just work on base of orders I get. I'm not so much like being in there. Do you have consistent clients that you're reprinting for? Or is it a one and done?

Starting point is 00:06:03 A little bit of both, but I do have, I've picked up a few clients that are picking up, you know, a month. Yeah. And is most of the hours, when you're saying I'm working 50 hours on this, is it most of it in the actual physical printing that you're having to do? or is it trying to find new clients and marketing and thinking of creative ways to get your name out there? A little bit of both, but mainly the printing process,

Starting point is 00:06:28 like printing and being in there. Okay. Yeah, so I'm with Jade. I mean, Miguel, if you have all the equipment, and it is bringing in 1,500, obviously that's not sustainable long term for you to live like that. Obviously, you know that, or you probably wouldn't be calling the show. So it's November.

Starting point is 00:06:45 A part of me would give it another six months while doing something else. Like you need to go wait tables. I mean, you could make more money doing that. I mean, something, right? You need to go be doing something. And if you can keep this on the side and actually get some clients, you could, I don't know, and if you get, yes, grow it. And then maybe that be your full time.

Starting point is 00:07:02 Or you just have these clients and you start making $3,000 a month while also still working to get out of all the credit, all the debt that you talked about at the beginning of this call. So I almost would be tempted just to hold tight for like maybe six months. Give yourself a time period. though to say, okay, I don't go into any more debt in it. But to say, can I pick up any more steam in this business in the next six to nine months? And if you can't, then sure, sell the equipment and then that will give you some money. But we just see this, Jade and I both, I think, as a great side hustle for right now,

Starting point is 00:07:38 while you go get a full-time job somewhere else. The fact that you've started generating money so quickly from it, I think is good. And you have made an investment in some equipment and it feels like worth it to try to play that out a little longer, but I like what Rachel said on putting a timeline on it. So I would do that, Miguel, or just throwing this out there, kind of the other side of the coin is if you hate it and you're not enjoying it, but I think you are liking it in some degree because you said you'd still stay in if you didn't have debt, is to, yeah, find something just full time, sell the stuff and you start a whole new life where you're not feeling like you have

Starting point is 00:08:09 to carry a business, right? Because it does, it's a lot of strain and mental calories to do that. So, I don't know, kind of two different options. But either way, you've got to get a second job either way. Agree. Agree. Right. Yeah. I hope that helps.

Starting point is 00:08:25 I know that sometimes when we just tell people, cut your expenses and get a job. I know. It feels tough, but truly, that is the remedy. You don't have expenses to cut your bare bones as it is. So the next line of defense is getting more income. That's how it works.

Starting point is 00:08:40 Yeah. And Ken Coleman has a book. Find the work you're wired to do. And we'll send that to you because there's a great, it's not a quiz. At the back, yeah, to kind of figure out. Maybe this will help kind of narrow some possible career paths for you too, Miguel, that you can just kind of brainstorm and think.

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Starting point is 00:11:00 like everything around the subject of real estate. Because again, buying and selling, it can just, it can be an overwhelming process. And the more information you have that you understand and you know, the more clarity you're going to have walking into that, which is huge. Like you want to be armed with so much information before you go and buy or sell your home. So make sure to check it out at Ramsey Solutions.com slash real estate or click the link in the description if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast. Because if you need some next steps towards your home buying or home selling process, make sure to check it out.

Starting point is 00:11:32 One of my favorite things on it is the dashboard. They have the U.S. housing market trends and they keep it updated. And it's just constantly kind of a pulse of what's going on with interest. interest rates, median house home prices in America, total days on the market, how many homes are for sale around the country. I mean, it just kind of gives you the snapshot picture of the real estate market. So again, you can go to ramsysolutions.com slash real estates. All right, we're going to the phones and we're going to Andrew in Cheyenne, Wyoming, one of my

Starting point is 00:12:01 favorite, one of my favorite country songs. Hey, Andrew, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help? Okay, so my wife and I were on baby step too and it kind of took us a little bit to get there, mostly because we've been pretty sick, both of us for the past few years, and we're seeking some medical treatment to hopefully knit this in the bud,

Starting point is 00:12:29 hopefully in a few short months, but the medical treatment that we're looking at that was recommended by our doctor is experimental, and it's not covered by insurance, and the treatment is going to be, between $10,000 to $30,000. So we're kind of in a position where we do. Oh, no. Are you there, Andrew? Oh, no. Oh, man.

Starting point is 00:12:52 Andrew, we'll give you one more second. Oh, yeah, that's a bad line, I think. We're going. Oh, there you are. Oh, you're back. Yes. Sorry. Oh, you're good.

Starting point is 00:13:02 You're good. My phone's a little weird. So, yes, I don't know if my wife and I should actually take out a loan or not. We really don't want to. especially since we're... Can I ask you, Andrew, and share as much as you feel comfortable, but what's going on health-wise? We were, so we got pretty sick from the home that we were living in.

Starting point is 00:13:28 Oh. And so... Like mold? Yeah, so it's just been a lot of stuff that's been going on where a lot of the treatments have been not either FDA-approved or treatments that have been, getting us better. We are better, but it's just been a really long process. So the last time we talked with our doctor, he said that we should try and do like a hyperbaric treatment, which seems great. You know, he's had really great success with it. But the only problem is that the

Starting point is 00:14:00 payment has to be up front. And so that's that's the only issue. And insurance. This is obviously something more like in a natural bent, I'm assuming. So insurance isn't going to cover it? No, insurance won't cover it. Tell me just health-wise, are you guys able to work? Are you able to function? Like, how are you guys? You said you're doing better. I'm just trying to get a gauge about how urgent this is for you guys.

Starting point is 00:14:22 Yeah. So we are better and we are both working right now. We make about, I want to say, close to $70,000 or $80,000 right now a year. Okay. The only problem with this is that the longer we put it off, the worst little get. Sure. And so it just... What's your margin every month? Like what are you right now putting towards debt and Baby Step 2 that you could put potentially towards saving up for this or doing one at a time? Yeah, we're able to put close to $600 or so a month into debt. And how much

Starting point is 00:15:02 debt do you guys have? Right now we have about, I want to say about $20,000 in student loan debt and then about 50,000 in a business loan. Okay. Man, this is so hard because I do feel like they're just from my own experience, but people within my close circles of friends and family, even that I know, you know, when you get something, it's like autoimmune or mold or whatever, that it can end up feeling, Andrew, like there's always something else we have to, like there's a long, line of things that are continual.

Starting point is 00:15:42 And so what I, you know, always just think about and kind of caution is I would number one, maybe get a second opinion. I'm sure you know your doctor well and trust them. But, you know, I mean, we're talking about $10,000 to $30,000, right? I mean, if it was $2,000, that's one thing. But, I mean, you're talking, you know, five figures going in with treatments. And so is that a piece or all in? That would be for us combined.

Starting point is 00:16:08 And is this ongoing or is it kind of a one time? Lord willing it would be just a one time like, you know, one to two months worth of treatment. So it would be, you know, 20 sessions is like is about $10,000 on the high end. Okay. We hope to be done in about a month. Okay. So, you know, what I would probably do, because again, I feel like this can sometimes feel like a never-ending cycle. I would, I would, and because it's not a,

Starting point is 00:16:40 and I know you guys are saying, I don't want to downplay at all the sickness, because I'm sure it's just miserable, but it's not a life or death. Like, okay, I have to save my child right now because, you know, there's a, you know, like it's not this, it's not an urgency, but it is something for the betterment of your health you want.

Starting point is 00:16:54 So what, you know, what I would probably strive to do is whatever I could to get, because 10 to 30 is a big range. So I would get as close to that 10, and I would negotiate doctors bill. I mean, I would do whatever I could to get it, down to that 10 and you guys are, you know, I would work to save a thousand a month. I would be okay right now because it is a health issue, maybe to pause the debt snowball,

Starting point is 00:17:15 stay current on your bills. But I would bump that 600 a month up to a thousand and save for 10 months. And then starting October, November, Andrews, start this treatment. And then hopefully by this time next year, you're through it, you're done and then press play on the baby steps. And maybe one of you goes out of time to see if it's helpful. Oh, that's a good point. You know, I know you're two different bodies with two different sets of, you know,

Starting point is 00:17:34 but that might be a good way to say, listen, I did it, it did nothing for me or I did it and it really, really helped. That might give you some confidence going into the next treatment. It's just a thought. Like, I don't know what you're facing. I don't know if it's headaches or every time you eat, you know, whatever it is.

Starting point is 00:17:47 If it's something that's truly debilitating, but if it's just, and again, I'm not, I don't want to downplay it either, but if it's something that's more of an annoyance that you're learning to live through, that gives you, you know, there's a little bit more timeline there to get this done. Yeah, for sure.

Starting point is 00:18:02 And the sense, too, that, you know, you don't want to prolong it too long because of what you're saying, you know, they can come back and get worse unless you have this treatment. So getting to it, right, a level of urgency, but it's also not like, we have to do this next month. The only option is alone and we're done. Like, yeah, if you can and it's not debilitating because you guys are working and all of that, I would, yeah, I would find something because I would cash flowed. And the other thing, Andrew, that's interesting is when you are working with cash, even when we're talking about, you know, health situations, it does force you. This is why I like

Starting point is 00:18:33 cash forces you to look at other options, other decisions. Like, sell something. Yeah. There's just other parts of your brain of problem solving versus with debt. It's like, here's a chunk of money. This is all we're going to do. We don't really have to pit the brain power to think through other things. It's just here.

Starting point is 00:18:50 But when you're paying with cash and you're working and saving hard, like, I don't know, it just forces other things to come to the surface of other options and choices. That's also true. But yeah, so, again, I'm so sorry. That is that stuff that is like, and that's, And that has been, I don't know, I don't know if you've, I've just had people and it's like, you go to the next thing and then it flares up again. It just feels like it's like whackamol a little bit sometimes with different things.

Starting point is 00:19:13 So I do want you guys to get that treatment. But because it's not, it's not life or death right in this moment, I would calm down. I mean, I would pause a little bit and save up for it. That's difficult. I remember when Sam and I were getting out of debt, this was before the days of Obamacare and you had to have insurance or else you're pre-neutral. penalized. We didn't have insurance. And one day he was pulling our

Starting point is 00:19:37 luggage out of the back of the Jeep and it got caught on his finger and he broke his finger. And we didn't have insurance and I was like, listen, head over to Walgreens. Tape it up. It's crooked to this day. And you know, he plays instrument.

Starting point is 00:19:54 It wasn't good. Take care of yourself. Take care of yourselves. It's insurance. This is the Ramsey show. The holidays are supposed to be joyful. But they can also be expensive. Between gifts, travel, and about a thousand limited time offers, your budget can start feeling anything but merry. And that's why I love this. Boost Mobile helps you treat yourself and your wallet. Right now, you'll pay just $10 a month for your first two months. Then only $25 a month for unlimited talk, text, and data. Forever. No price hikes, no contracts, no nonsense. Just reliable service that keeps your phone bill low and your holiday spirits high. So stop stressing over your budget. and start saving instead.

Starting point is 00:20:54 Go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey and unwrap the savings today. That's boostmobile.com slash Ramsey. Restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com slash Ramsey for details. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Up next in Boone, North Carolina, we have Sierra on the line. Hi, Sierra. Welcome to the show.

Starting point is 00:21:29 Hi, thank you. Absolutely. How can we help? So my husband and I are living paycheck to paychecks. check and I was introduced to Dave Ramsey from my grandmother. Now, I have been trying for the past six months and I'm stuck on baby step one. And we're not getting anywhere. We had half of baby step one and then everything happened with the hurricane and we're back to zero.

Starting point is 00:22:03 Oh, man. Were you guys hit hard? Were you one of the towns? Yeah, we were. So sorry. It's okay. It happens. But I'm just, I feel like we can't catch a break.

Starting point is 00:22:18 And living paycheck to paycheck is so hard for us. I am a full-time student, college student. I'm 29. And my husband works full-time, sometimes even over, like overtime shifts just so that we can get by. And I just, I don't know what to do anymore. What's he bringing in? Income wise. About 49 to 50,000 a year.

Starting point is 00:22:41 Okay. And when do you graduate? I have about five semesters left, so I'll be finishing up in 2027. Okay. Wow. Okay. Are you working at all, Sierra? I'm not, but I pick up pet sitting shifts to try and bring in some money.

Starting point is 00:23:00 I tried a full-time job and full-time college, and it didn't. destroyed me. Okay. What are you getting your degree in? Biology. And what's the goal with that? What do you want to do? I want to go work on the coast as a marine biologist. Wow. Okay. Okay. So you're, he's bringing in 49,000. You're doing pet sitting. How much do you guys see a month? Like after taxes, after everything. What does that look like monthly for you? It's about three, three thousand $500. Okay.

Starting point is 00:23:36 And how are you guys living? Are you renting? What are you paying for rent? We are renting. We pay $1,000 a month for rent. Okay. Yeah, this is tough. The solution that you're looking for, I mean, people live paycheck to paycheck for different reasons.

Starting point is 00:23:55 Sometimes it's our spending's out of control and we've got to, you know, rain the budget in and rain the spending in. And sometimes it really is an income issue. And it's, in this case, I think you're creeping up on an income. issue. I'm just wondering what is what is your husband doing for work? What kind of work does he do? He makes fiber optic cable. Okay and you said he had a side hustle too. What's that? He door dashes. Okay. So I'm wondering if both of you need to sit down and kind of figure out, okay, what do we both need to do in order to make this work?

Starting point is 00:24:36 Because to your own words, it's not sustainable. Are you guys going into debt? Like, how are you covering the overages? We are door-dashing every chance that we can get. Okay. Just so, like, I can get to class and we can get food. And sometimes his mom helps us out. Okay, so there's not, you're covering the overage then?

Starting point is 00:24:58 So there's part of this, and there may be more that you can do income-wide. but there is part of this where you've said, okay, I'm going to go to school for the next three years, and I'm going to become a marine biologist. And by me doing that, here's what we've decided. My income is limited, and he's in his career right now. And so there's part of this that you guys have decided by, you know, by choosing this path. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It's just, we've both understood that for the next three years, it's going to be extremely tight. But there's a light at the end of that tunnel because you're going to be a marine biologist. What's a marine biologists make?

Starting point is 00:25:34 It kind of depends. I'm trying to get a state job, and that can range anywhere from $50,000 to $70,000. Okay, and how are you paying for school? Right now, I am pretty set with financial aid and scholarships.

Starting point is 00:25:52 I've already finished my associates and went through that with honors, so I've been doing pretty well with scholarships. So no debt, no loans. Do you guys have any other debt or any debt at all? Yes. I have three credit cards, but it only adds up to about $1,000, maybe $1,500. And I have a car.

Starting point is 00:26:17 How much is that? The total on it's $28,000, and I pay $668. Oh, there's some money. There's a problem, Sierra. You got to sell that car. You got to sell it. And I'm trying to figure out how to sell it. So sell it?

Starting point is 00:26:36 But I'm not sure because I'm $13,000 split on this car. Ooh. Oh. Wow. So you owe $28,000 and how much? And you're saying you really can't sell it except for $15,000 is what it's worth? When I had it, because I went and had it appraised at a dealership. Okay.

Starting point is 00:26:56 And they said they can only give me $6,000 for it. Okay. So don't do the dealership route because they will all. always give you a much lower rate than what you could actually sell it private sale for. So go on Kelly, Kellybluebook.com, put in all the info and just see on the high end what you could get for it, okay? So the dealership told you how much would they pay for it?

Starting point is 00:27:18 6,000. Oh, my gosh. Wait, $6,000, and you owe $28,000? What kind of car is it? It's a 2017 Jeep Cherokee, and I have 162,000 miles on it. Okay. What is your husband drive? What's his deal? He has a motorcycle that's paid for.

Starting point is 00:27:37 Got you. And we have a, we call it a hoopy. And it's just a really old beater that's also paid for. What about the motorcycle? What's it worth? About $4,000. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I would, okay, I think, yeah, I would be selling this car, Sierra, for sure. And even if it's, even if you can only get,

Starting point is 00:28:01 get $16,000 for it, I would rather have a $16,000 loan than a $28,000 loan. Does that make sense? Like that's going to change your numbers a whole lot. And if I were you guys, do you guys have kids? We have a two year old. You have a two year old. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I might sell the motorcycle and take the $4,000 and get a beater car for you. And then sell your car. Yeah. I mean, honestly, because you can always go back and get a motorcycle again. But you guys, I mean, to your point, I mean, it's going to cut that payment down when she gets a loan for whatever it is. By half. Possibly. Yeah. I mean, it'd be, yeah, you guys would have an extra $300 a month coming in. Yeah. So there's, and there's decisions here. And I think Jade set it up really well. And it's a, it's a, it's kind of a hard pill to swallow in life. But it's understanding that, you know, as adults, we make decisions around our life. And not all of them. Yeah, not all of them are right or wrong. It's not. It's not. Yeah, not all of them are right or wrong. It's not. It's not.

Starting point is 00:28:58 this you know oh gosh you shouldn't be in school right now it's not that at all it is though we have decided to do this route and because of that we're not going to have a lot of money like we're going to be we're going to feel broke for three years until i get through school and until i get a job and all that and in three years it's going to look different but in the meantime what can we do what other decisions can we make that are going to be adult like decisions yeah that may hurt and they're not fun but it's things like getting the extra job like you guys are doing. It's selling stuff to see what you can free up. It's getting out of debt and you're freeing up income.

Starting point is 00:29:36 Cutting up those credit cards. Cutting up credit cards. Yeah. I mean, it's doing a couple of these, making some of these decisions within the big decision of the lifestyle you guys have made just to make it easier, Sierra. And that's the thing is, is we want peace. You know, we talk about financial peace is what we want for everyone.

Starting point is 00:29:52 And that piece is going to look different depending on, you know, everyone's situation and, you know, the way they view life and all of it. It's a little bit of, you know, subjective to a degree, but you don't have peace right now. And so what I would fight so hard for is in these three years, how can we get some peace? And being able to free up some money would bring some of that. And how do we do that? Well, I just listed out a couple options from jobs and selling stuff and all of it. So that's what I would do. And one of them is a long term that you've committed to. Like once she starts working, she's got a great pathway to make $70,000. And yeah, and then together with your husband,

Starting point is 00:30:26 yeah y'all will be making you know 130,000 before taxes like that's amazing so the light is coming but it's getting to the light that I think is really key and what decisions can we make in between and these are hearts here I understand like these aren't fun it's not always fun but it's getting you to a goal that you guys want together and part of that is you still being in school so I commend you for having a two-year-old and doing this and I'm so sorry about the devastation in your area we we think about you guys so much so we're praying for you Thanks for the call. I love entrepreneurs.

Starting point is 00:31:07 Don't forget, guys, I started my company on a card table myself, so I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other.

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Starting point is 00:32:54 trapped in a maze of defaulted private student loan debt, it's hard to find your way out. But Y-ReFi can offer you a lifeline with custom refinancing based on your ability to pay and a lump-sum payoff option that you could qualify for after 24 months. So go to Y-Refi- refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. Remember, it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Lauren in New Mexico. I currently own three rental properties and have 30-year mortgages on two of them. You say to have 15-year mortgages because you pay it off faster, if I am putting my profits from my rental toward my principal on a 30-year mortgage and can pay it off 15 years, is there a need to switch it to a 15-year mortgage? What's the reasoning behind the 15-year mortgage? I make more profits with a lower monthly payment,

Starting point is 00:33:50 which puts more money towards the principal. Well, Lauren, for starters, we would say not to even have rental property if you're not able to pay cash for it. So technically speaking, I mean, if you could pay it off quickly, I would probably just sell one and throw some of the equity at the other and make that a goal to sell it. But having, yeah, three rentals,

Starting point is 00:34:14 that have mortgages on them. Yeah, not the best idea, not really the Rams way to do it. But for your primary home, we do say a 15, even though people, you know, this is one of those that I feel like is a slippery slope because a lot of people still do the 30

Starting point is 00:34:30 and, you know, whatever it is. Yeah, of course. But the thing to remember is your intentions don't always line up with reality. So if you have the intention of paying a 30, like a 15, you know, stuff happens. And you're like, oh, yeah, well, we won't pay extra this month. We'll make sure to catch up next month.

Starting point is 00:34:48 And then something else happens. And you end up usually not paying it truly like a 30. You don't. Now, when you're paying off your house in the baby steps, we do find that people are paying their houses off in like nine to 11 years, which is amazing. So I think that 15-year fixed-rate mortgage that we talk about, it just locks you in to a plan to get you out of debt faster

Starting point is 00:35:11 with the guarantee that you will get it paid. off in 15 years. It makes you accountable. And let's be let's call a spade a spade. The truth is if you go with a 30 year, you're not paying as much. So you get more house. Yes. And I think truthfully, when people want that, they want more house and not when you're locked into 15, though, it's like, okay, maybe suddenly I can't afford what I thought I could get. Yes. So look at the root of the. And that's the thing, that's what's always interesting with houses is that you're going to qualify for a lot more. house and what they will give you than what you necessarily need

Starting point is 00:35:47 or even what's good for you financially. So we always talk about having at least 5% to put down for a down payment. Your payment being no more than 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate, which I always say we understand that is a very conservative formula when it comes to the housing situation.

Starting point is 00:36:04 But just like our last caller, you guys, you see people like get into housing situations and it takes half their income or maybe one spouse chooses to stay home, but you can't because you've built your life around, you know, having a dual income. And it just starts to limit your choices. The deeper you go into debt, the longer you're in debt, it just limits your life choices on what you can and can't do. Because it's telling you basically what to do. So that's it, Lauren.

Starting point is 00:36:27 All right. That's a really good advice. Let's talk to Greg. He's in Biloxi, Mississippi. What's going on, Greg? Hey, Jaden Rachel. It's so good to be talking to y'all and fan-girling a little bit right now. Glad you're here. So I have been listening for a little over a year, but the month before I started listening, I co-signed on a truck for my now ex-fiance. Oh, Greg. I'm sorry. Yeah, rough situation. So we had agreed once things ended that, hey, You know, we can keep alone as it is for a year because we needed to wait for the maturity date. Okay. And so it's coming up on that.

Starting point is 00:37:22 And just in talking to her on occasion, she most likely is not in a position to refinance it on her own. And she has said that her parents or anyone else won't help her. Good for them. So I, yeah, yeah. just from my from my perspective I'm not quite sure how I can get myself out of this have you tried persuading her to sell it and start over fresh on her own

Starting point is 00:37:51 I have she is not completely opposed to the idea but I don't think I can really rely on her actually following that through can I ask a question and I promise it does kind of relate to this. Who broke up with who? No, you're good. I ended things with her. Okay. It makes it a little stickier. It makes it stickier because this, this is a tie to you.

Starting point is 00:38:19 This is a way for you to still be in her life and I don't. You're getting pulled over, Greg? No, there's an alarm going off somewhere. Oh, okay. I was like, oh no, are you driving? You're getting pulled over? But my point is like, this is a tie to you. And if it, if things were different, I'd say you could make the argument of like, hey, you broke things off and I want a clean break and I need to, you know, be free from this. Like, you could make that argument, but in this case, it does make it a little tough. How much is the loan for? There's about 27 left on it. Okay. Man, how much is it worth, do you know? I actually did look up the Kelly Blue Book a couple weeks ago and it said that private party sale was tops like 23. Oh gosh, and it's upside down.

Starting point is 00:39:07 Yeah. Okay. Yeah, this, I think this is only going to get worse. So I would really encourage her to sell it, and I'd be strong on that. I'd say, listen, there's a reason that you can't ref- I mean, the math is, like the logical reason is there's a reason you can't refinance this, and the reason is the bank has looked at your financial situation and said, it's not stable. You cannot afford this on your own, which means they expect you to default, which means I'm here for when you default.

Starting point is 00:39:35 That's what that means. and I don't know what the hard part is I don't know if your relationship is there for you to even talk to her like that anymore but that's the truth of the matter I know because I mean if you can't you can't make her no do anything and so you really are kind of at the mercy of of her I'm like you can't go in and you know you know take your name off the loan in secret right I mean like yeah so it is so yeah you're in a yeah you're in a tough position Greg and it's kind of one of those I'm sorry that you're going to have to be one of the sad examples that we'll probably use this week to say when someone's calls, I should come, you know, my girlfriend wants me to co-side. We're going to say, talk to Greg in Biloxi. Greg would tell you don't do this because this is what happens. My family agrees, my family agrees that this is the dumbest decision. Oh, Greg. Oh, man. I mean, unless you can just convince her because you're a great salesman, but coming from an ex-fiance, she's probably not going to want to listen to her, to your advice. I mean, broke her heart. Sorry, Greg. And now you're, you're, I mean, yeah, there's nothing you can do.

Starting point is 00:40:39 So I think it's one of those stupid texts, you know, and I'm praying she doesn't default. Me too. And she just pays this and gets out of it. But you, but that's what's. She has been very consistent on the payment. Yeah, okay. What is the payment? Oh, gosh, it's almost seven.

Starting point is 00:40:56 Oh, gosh. I mean, listen, the most practical thing you can do to be ready for this storm is if she defaults. Is it if she defaults. And to be ready, if you kind of have some money pack. away on the side because if she doesn't pay it, it reflects on you. And when it's time for you to buy a house or when it's time for you to do some of the things that you want to do, if you still have a credit score laying around which you will because of this, it will make it bad. And as we've talked about on the show, having a bad credit score is very difficult. We talk about having a

Starting point is 00:41:25 zero credit score, which is wonderful, but this will keep you from having that, even if you pay off all of your other debts. So if I were in your shoes, which this is the game we like to play, I would be, which by the way, we don't know much about your financial situation. Do you have debt? The truck technically, and then I have about 22,000 in student loans I'm working on. I've already gotten rid of the credit card debt. Well, I'd go gung-ho on your debt. I'd work the baby steps on that.

Starting point is 00:41:54 And then when I was through, I would be mindful of keeping some money stacked up. Yeah, for your emergency fund, knowing this is something you may have to dip into. And I would tell her too, Greg, you don't want to emotionally be attached anymore. Right? And this keeps you guys somewhat together in a weird state for the future. So I'm sorry. Oh, I hate that that's happening to you. All right. That does it for this hour of the show. Stick around. We'll be right back with you before you know it. Don't let big grocery bills spoil your holiday plans. Shop at Aldi first. They've got USDA choice meats like beef, pork, and even your turkey, along with fresh produce, holiday desserts, and more. And you'll find all of them at the lowest.

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Starting point is 00:43:36 Hi, Donna. Welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for taking my question. I appreciate it. Yes, absolutely. Okay, so my husband has a student loan that is currently in deferment. It's been in deferment over 10 years. But prior to that, it was in default.

Starting point is 00:43:55 It ballooned from 65,000 to 340,000. What? We got, yeah, pretty scary. I know, I know. There was some fraud involved. We tried to take care of it with some attorneys. We were not able to get anywhere. We're stuck with it.

Starting point is 00:44:11 We got married four years ago. His situation is he's 66, close to retirement. He doesn't really have any assets, not really, no savings. I'm 57, probably going to work for another five years. I've got about $1.4 million in investment assets, which are own free and clear. We both have a joint account with Charles Schwab, which has about $200,000 in it, but it's fully funded by me, and then we have two other properties in both of our names. A couple of questions.

Starting point is 00:44:43 How can I navigate negotiating this balance down for him? I'm willing to pay up to $100,000 for it. And how do I protect myself? Are they private loans or federal loans? So they're federal loans. Gosh. They were, they were, well, I believe they're federal loans. See, I've had trouble with this.

Starting point is 00:45:03 They were federal loans, and then they were consolidated. Okay. So, and from what I understand, you know, I've been to so many different places, and I keep hitting a brick wall. It's like nobody can really give me the right answers. I've been told I can't negotiate. If they're federal, you can't negotiate. If they're private, you can.

Starting point is 00:45:25 But if the whole lump of them, if that whole lump is federal, you owe what you owe. So what's his best route? Does he just keep deferring it? No. I mean, he will never be able to pay these off. You know, he'll never be able to pay it. So what, tell me about the properties, because I'm going to, here, I'll tell you what Rachel and I are going to do, and then we'll explain it.

Starting point is 00:45:47 We're going to approach this as any married couple would. who is dedicated their lives to each other and has decided that they're one, meaning that they're one in life and money and all of those things. And then we can go back and trace it back if we need to. But let's talk about these properties because what I think is somewhere in the assets between the two of you is the money to pay this off. Yeah, there's definitely money. I built this.

Starting point is 00:46:13 I mean, we've only been married four years. All of those assets are mine. I mean, I've done what I needed to do. And I've built. How many marriages have you guys had in the past, Donna? He's been married once before and so have I. Okay. So it's both second marriages.

Starting point is 00:46:27 Okay. Did you do a pre-nup at all? No. We have our wills, but we didn't do a pre-nup. Okay. Can I ask a little bit about that? So I'm hearing you talk and it sounds like you very much want to protect the wealth that you built. But you didn't sign a pre-up, which makes me wonder about.

Starting point is 00:46:50 that. Like, how did you, how did you view that? I didn't realize how, you know, I don't know, what can I say? We're soulmates. Okay. Listen, that's good to know. We're soulmates and, you know, he's a wonderful man and I'm not concerned about really protecting my assets from him. I'm more concerned about protecting my assets against somebody coming in and swooping in, a lender coming in and taking it. Got it. Okay. So in that case, I loved hearing you say that because it's, sounded at first like when you said oh I'm only willing to put a hundred thousand towards this it sounded like you were trying to keep your assets from him right like you didn't want to spend too much on his debt that's the way it sounded at first but now it sounds like that's not the issue and

Starting point is 00:47:36 if that's the case can you tell us about these properties because the money might be there to get free and clear it's all real estate basically and again they're all owned free and clear right how much How much are each of the properties? How much am I into the properties? Probably, you know, five or six hundred thousand. So tell us probably around five or six hundred. Tell us property one. What's property one worth?

Starting point is 00:48:04 So I've got a condo, which is probably worth around 200,000. Okay. I've got another house, which is around 250. I've got another condo, which is probably also. around 200,000. Are they all owned free and clear? Yes. Okay.

Starting point is 00:48:26 Good for you. Way to go. Great, Donna. Did you know about his debt going into the marriage? I didn't. I knew he, what happened is his wife, his previous wife handled all the finances. She was a stay-at-home. She did some funky stuff with their finances, and he thought his student loans were paid off.

Starting point is 00:48:47 He didn't realize until so. Suddenly he didn't get a tax refund one year that he was in default. He didn't even know. So it really was like a big shock. And then, you know, he just sometimes men just ignore things. I think it was too emotionally overwhelming for him. And he pretty much just put it to the side. So I knew there was something.

Starting point is 00:49:11 I didn't realize. How many years did he put it to the side? Probably about 13 years total. Okay. So there's enough of a, that the shock has worn off and then we can address reality that he chose not to, though. Right. Right. That's got to bother you, right?

Starting point is 00:49:29 Does that bother you? Sure, of course it does. Okay. Of course it does. Yeah, yeah, sure. But right now I'm committed to the relationship. I'm committed to my husband. That's great.

Starting point is 00:49:38 And you guys are in your, what, 50, you say, 37 and 66? Yeah, yeah, he's 66. I'm 57. Okay. And he has, why does he have no? And what's he been doing? Like, like, with retirement and all that? He pretty much gave everything to her in the divorce.

Starting point is 00:49:59 They didn't have. He, it was like no contest, just give her what she wants? Give her what she wants, yeah. Yeah. Is he working? He works for me. Actually, I have a business. Okay.

Starting point is 00:50:13 He does work for me. Okay. How much is he making? We just have him making something like around 50,000. So we've been keeping it low. You know, we do sort of, you know, W-2. Is real estate your business? Is that your business?

Starting point is 00:50:32 Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So there's, I hear two things going on here. I think you're committed to this guy. You know, great. I think that you need to reach over and probably sell one of these condos. and then go into the joint funds and pay this thing off.

Starting point is 00:50:48 That's probably the choice that I would make. I think you guys, I'm worried that, and I'm going to say this ever so delicately, there's a balance of power here that is, feels off. Yeah. And I think that if you don't address certain things, it's going to cause issues down the line. And I think you need to sit with accounts.

Starting point is 00:51:15 Do you see what I'm saying? I think you need to. Yeah, I understand that completely. You need to sit with somebody and work through this because it almost feels like you're kind of just taking care of this guy. And it shouldn't feel like that. You should feel like you're in a marriage where equal people are really contributing. Whatever it is they're going to contribute. But you should feel good about it.

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Starting point is 00:53:22 That's Xander.com. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Up next, we have Brent in Cincinnati, Ohio. Hey, Brent. Welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel. Hello. How can we help?

Starting point is 00:53:51 So I'm wondering if I'm able to purchase a car for my wife. We've been leasing to own for the three years. And up come in December, we can. can purchase it for 19,000. The same car is valued at 23,000. Okay. So you've been leasing it for three years. What was it worth when you started? I'm just wondering how much it's depreciated. How much? No, how much was it worth? 28,000. Okay. Okay. And now it's worth 19, but you're saying you've seen it other places for 23. Is that what you're telling me?

Starting point is 00:54:36 Yes, with the same I. It's the same year. So it looks like a good deal. Yeah. Do you have the money? And do you like the car? We like the car, but we don't have the money. So we'd be getting a loan through my credit union.

Starting point is 00:54:52 Oh. And what's the alternative? You just give it up? Yes. Do you have any? My wife's very attached to the VIII. vehicle and doesn't really want to consider any cheaper options. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:10 Listen, I can understand that. Go ahead. Well, yeah, why is she attached to it? She just likes it a lot? She likes it a lot. Well, the fact that she's not going to be able to consider. Is she sitting there with you, Brent? Tell her hi for us.

Starting point is 00:55:24 What's her name? Elizabeth. Hey, Elizabeth. Hi, Elizabeth. So, yeah, I mean, when you, put yourself in a position when you purchase something and say, well, I'm just not, I don't want to look at anything cheaper. You've kind of already made your decision. I mean, if you guys don't have the money and you don't look anything cheaper, I mean, I guess the only thing that you guys have

Starting point is 00:55:46 decided at that point is, yeah, you're going to take a loan out and buy the car. We would advise you differently. And so you called the show, so we'll give you our advice. I don't know if you're going to want to take it. Because what you'd realize is you've been, you've been basically renting this car for three years. In the most expensive way possible. In the most expensive way, yeah. And I know you can't really tell the interest rate on a lease car, but when people, you know, actually ratio it out, it's high.

Starting point is 00:56:14 It's usually more expensive than if you went got a traditional car loan. So then you're going to take a $19,000 loan, pay interest on that. And then we're going to look up in four to five years and this $19,000 car is going to go down to probably $10,000 or $12,000 in value. So when it comes to cars, it is one of the places that financially speaking, I mean, it's kind of one of the dumbest debts you can get into from a financial perspective because, again, you're borrowing money and paying more on that borrowed money because of interest on an asset that's going down in value versus like a house, a mortgage, right? You take out a mortgage. You do pay interest on that loan, but the value of that home is going up at the same time. So the car itself is not a wise purchase. to make when you don't have cash for it. So my next question to you guys would be, do you have any cash available to you?

Starting point is 00:57:09 Do we have, no, we don't. We're still trying to get over some credit card debt. Okay. Good. How much debt do you guys have? We have $4,000 on the credit card. And then we have a few monthly payments. What are those?

Starting point is 00:57:25 We're paying off our wedding rings, which we have 7,000 left over. Okay. And then we have some, a personal loan or paying back my parents, which we owe about 2,500 left. Okay. And I'm doing 500 every paycheck. Okay.

Starting point is 00:57:48 So towards the end of January, the 500 a month will clear up. Okay. How much you guys make a year? Close to 40,000 a year. Combine. combined? Yes. Are you both working?

Starting point is 00:58:05 My wife is looking at getting a new job that could make more money soon, but we just don't have the money yet. And I don't want to make decisions on we'll have more money later. Yeah, that's right. I want to make the decision on what we have now. Absolutely, which is very wise, very, very wise. So yeah, a $40,000 income, there's no way I would take it a $19,000. loan for a car. You can't afford it. Do you guys have kids yet? No, not yet. Listen, I'm going to throw

Starting point is 00:58:35 something wild out here and roll it over in your minds and in your hearts tonight, but she's not working yet. You don't have children. When it comes time for this lease, like you let it go, but if you have to be a one car family for a couple of months while you save up, what's the harm in that? Just a thought. Yeah. I suggest that my husband and I did that while we were trying to get out of, debt. We got rid of one of our vehicles and we were upside down, but we got a small loan for it to get out of it. And then we had just our single car. We paid it off. And then we actually found that it was doable for us for quite a while and we stayed that way. And then when it was ready, time for us to have a second car, we bought it in cash. And for you guys in this season of your life, that actually

Starting point is 00:59:24 might work out better for you than a lot of other couples because she's not really working yet. And I'm going to say this, Brent, and I'm going to be very as kind and fun as Rachel is. It just comes through. But what the life you guys just described to us from a financial perspective only is so normal. You have a personal loan to the parents for, I'm not sure why. You got wedding rings. You didn't have the money. So you guys took out a loan.

Starting point is 00:59:50 You have some credit card debt. You have a car lease. You guys are, y'all are the normal Americans out there. But the problem is, Brett, normal. is broke. Normal is 78% of Americans today are living paycheck to paycheck, meaning if you miss a paycheck, you don't have enough to cover your bills. So if you guys decide that you want to continue to live normally, then what you guys have so far decided is that. And normal would be to go get, just keep the $19,000 car because you like it. That is normal. And you will have normal results

Starting point is 01:00:23 because of it. But what we encourage people is to flip all of that onto their head, and actually say, what is the weirdest thing we can do? Because if I get the results of normal, which is paycheck to paycheck living and not being able to build wealth and not be able to invest or save for the future or have any amount of money in savings, like I don't want to be normal. That's not where I want to be.

Starting point is 01:00:45 And if you guys look at each other tonight and say, we don't want to be that. We want to be people that have no debt. We have an emergency fund. We're actually funding some retirement for the future. We have a house that we can afford. It doesn't stress us out. we have margin in our budget, like this life that can be created, Brett, is possible,

Starting point is 01:01:03 totally possible. But you can't get there if you keep doing normal things. So what Jade's saying is a one car family for a couple that doesn't have kids. Is that inconvenient? Yeah. Is that weird? Yeah. But you know what? You don't have a car payment because that car payment on the $19,000 car, it's going to be $600 that you guys don't have. So you have to make different decisions if you want different results, Brett. And that's going to mean not taking out a loan for a car. For you guys, the reality is a one car family. It's saying goodbye to

Starting point is 01:01:33 my emotions, saying goodbye to what I want and what I love and all the things that got me to this place. And you put all that aside and you guys are like, we're adults. Yeah. We're adults. And we're going to make adult like decisions and we don't have the money. We can't afford this car.

Starting point is 01:01:49 You can't afford this car, Brett. At $40,000, you can't afford half of your annual income going to the value of a car. Like that, it's not good. That's not wise. And, and I would be working like crazy to get your income up. And, and I would start working to get out of debt. I mean, you guys could get all this paid off.

Starting point is 01:02:08 Your debt's not crazy. I mean, it's, you know, $2,500, $4,000. Like, you guys can get this cleaned up really fast. If you just say, we're going to be weird and we're going to work 60 hours a week because we don't have kids and we're going to take side hustles. We're going to drive Uber, right? I mean, like, here's, let me put this in perspective. if here's a couple of interesting statistics about cars,

Starting point is 01:02:27 because I want you to never go and have a car payment again. Number one, Rachel just said 78% of the people living paycheck to paycheck, right? 85% of people who buy, who get a car take out a loan or at least to get it. And I think that's a very interesting correlation. Almost everybody. Almost everybody, which is almost the same percentage of people living paycheck to paycheck. And for most people, that car payment is about $525 a month, which is very close to where you guys were at.

Starting point is 01:02:53 And if you invested that instead of give it to a car company, what would that be, Jay? Well, think about it. Most new car payments are over a term of six years. If you had listened to us and invested that money over the last six years, you'd have $85,000 instead of a car debt that's gone down in value. And so be weird, Brent. Be weird. The calendar might have flipped, but the way to one.

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Starting point is 01:04:08 Your money doesn't control you. So this year, stick to your plan, don't chase gimmicks or points, and partner with a credit union that helps you make progress in the baby steps. Visit fairwins.org slash Ramsey to take control of your money and stay weird. wins is federally insured by the NCUA. We're always thankful for the listeners of the show, the people that view it on YouTube and watch us. But one of the best ways to help spread the word is to share the show with the people

Starting point is 01:04:55 that you know, your friends, your family, even on your social media feeds, but, you know, even subscribing, leaving reviews, all of that helps because with the algorithms of today, when you're able to get this show in front of people that may not know about. about it, just like our last caller. He just said he just found us like two days ago on YouTube. I know on Facebook. Yeah, or on Facebook, is that what it was said? And yeah, and it's just, it's great because we want to be able to help people. That's our goal for the show. And the more people we can help, the better we're doing at our jobs is the way we look at it. So thank you again, you guys for subscribing and sharing. We really, really appreciate it. All right. Up next, we have

Starting point is 01:05:30 Wanda in Los Angeles. Hey, Wanda. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thank you so much. It's really a pleasure to be on the show. Thank you for taking my call. So I do apologize if I'm hyperverbal. It's the excitement and the coffee couple together. You're good, Wanda. You're great. How can we help? So I recently got a divorce and I owe my husband $50,000 and I'm not quite sure where to take the money from or borrow the money from for the $50,000. I don't have any money in my savings. I owe $25,000 on my car, $12,000 to my. 401k and my other expense is my home in my mortgage is 2470 a month. I looked into refinance and I really don't want to refinance my house because my interest rate on my house is two and a quarter.

Starting point is 01:06:25 And so I've been looking at other like HELOC, personal loans, but personal loan is like 12%. The HELOC is 10% and I just don't know. Okay. So Wanda, yeah, for sure. The $50,000 is it because? of the house? Like, are you supposed to give him the equity? Yes, I'm supposed to give him the equity out of the house. Originally, I was supposed to give him $150,000, but he knows that he didn't put any money into the house or anything like that. So he settled and said, I'll take $50,000. So I'm just trying to figure out the best course to give him the $50,000. I did take on a second job. I've been working the second job now for about three months. I haven't received any monies for it because I just haven't turned in the invoices.

Starting point is 01:07:10 Sure. Because, um, what's the time frame that you owe the 50K? Um, it's supposed to be, because we went back to court. So it's 30 days after the, um, court ruling until the, and so the, and I got the court ruling in the mail two weeks ago. So I have. Yeah. Yeah. So into basically in two to three weeks it's due? Yes. Okay. Um, so let me kind of set the stage. for this right quick. Is his name on the mortgage? Like is he on the deed or the title of the house?

Starting point is 01:07:45 It is. So typically what would happen if you're divorced, you would do a refinance to get his name off of it and you would do a cash out refinance so that you could also pull the 50K out. Give him his money and now you're free and clear from that.

Starting point is 01:08:01 But I see why you don't want to do that because of the interest rate. But I now double check this. because I'm not sure. But I feel like you can, when you refinance, you don't necessarily have to refinance the entire,

Starting point is 01:08:17 it might say, but just the amount that you're... A portion of it. Yes. Yeah. And so a portion of it would be at the old interest rate and a portion of it would be at the new interest rate. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:08:29 Have you talked to your lawyer, Wanda, about different options when it, considering it's because of the house and his name is on it, so you are going to have to. get his name off the home. Yeah. Right.

Starting point is 01:08:41 So what I was advised was, I actually talked to the accountant. And so what I was advised to do was to do a quick deed to take his name off the title. And he agrees to stay on the loan, let his name stay on the loan. Because if I asked him to take his name off the loan, they may make me refinance anyways, and then I lose the two and a quarter. And so he said he was agreeable with his name being on the loan, and he was just quick deed to home into my name. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:09:08 Yeah. A quick deed is definitely a great option when it comes to the situation. Yeah, I mean, I mean, and we never tell people to go and take on debt, but there is a point that you're going to be owed this from a legal standpoint. And so you, you have to give that money. And Wanda, you don't have it right now. And so I don't want to see you take equity out of your home and get into that mess of, of a he lock or anything like that.

Starting point is 01:09:31 So it may just have to be a personal loan. Okay. Even though the interest rate for the personal loans is just through. or roof. Well, my, I mean, from the court of law, you have to give this money. So either, Wanda, you, you, you know, do you mean, take the, take the equity and pay him what he's due, and you have to go find a new situation. Are you able to sustain the home that you're in? Oh, oh, most definitely. Most definitely. Definitely. Yeah. The house is now worth almost 700,000. When we purchased the house, it was at 391. And so I'm very hard. How much do you owe on it?

Starting point is 01:10:06 How much do you owe on it? 360. Okay. And in California, I came by another house at 391 and not in the area that I live in any way. Sure, sure. How much do you make? How much are you making? I make $188,000 a year.

Starting point is 01:10:22 Good for you, Wanda. And you're bringing, how much are you bringing home after taxes and insurance and everything per month? What's your take-home pay? A little over $6,000. Okay. Yeah, I mean, and your mortgage payment's $2,000. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so you're in.

Starting point is 01:10:39 And that's the reason why I got a second job, too, because whatever I do, I want to chop it down. With the second job, I just had received any of it. Because I don't know which way to go with that yet. 100%. Yeah, I mean, I mean, you're kind of stuck between, you know, a hard place. I don't want you to make a bad decision with your home. I think that would be unwise.

Starting point is 01:10:58 So it's not this idea that, like, you know, and it's one thing if you couldn't afford the payment on your income, but you're able to sustain that, which is wonderful and great. But yeah, I would, I would, yeah, do the quick deed. I would, again, ask the accountant again, wrap back around and just ask what Jade was talking about. And if there's a way to take a portion of it where you're able to pay him out of it. And the entire loan is not then, you know, subject to the new interest rates because that would be, that would not be smart. And it's a blessing that he dropped from 150 to 50,000.

Starting point is 01:11:34 Like, that's a big blessing. Yeah. So, Wanda, I mean, I'm looking at this. So let's just say you have you have $50,000 in debt because of the divorce. You got a $25,000 car and you got a $12,000 401k debts. 7-8. I mean, that's, yeah, that's $87,000. You make $18,000. I want you to pay this off in 18 months, Wanda. That's why I got a second job. Yeah, which I'm so proud of you. Seriously. Put all the money to it. Yeah. And that's the thing is, you know, that when you look at this high income, I'm like, man, this is, and I know you're in South. California, so it doesn't go as far as it would in Kansas City or something. I get it. But man, you have a lot on your side, Wanda, but from this point forward, I want you to draw that line in the sand and say no more. I'm not doing car payments. We're not doing credit cards. We're not, you know, borrowing our 401K. I'm living on what I make. I'm going to be, you know,

Starting point is 01:12:26 funding retirement. I mean, how old are you, Wanda? 55. 55. Yeah. So, yeah, here in five to 10 years wanting to retire, you know, and do something with your life. And you're, you're going to be able to make a lot of progress really quickly, which I'm, I'm so excited for you. So congratulations. I'm so sorry that, you know, with the divorce and everything that's kind of brought you to this point. That's always heartbreaking and grief in and of itself. That's, that's so hard. But, but you have a lot of great change ahead and a lot of things that's, yeah, that you can do and make a big, a big impact. Thank goodness that he was a good guy and was like, Like I know I didn't put any money into this house.

Starting point is 01:13:05 Right. It could have been 150. Yeah. I mean, that's, I think that's the really difficult part about one of the many difficult parts about divorces. There's all these assets. And it's like somebody gets to keep the house. But if you've been living in that house together, there's also a portion of it that goes

Starting point is 01:13:20 to the other spouse. And so how do they get their money? And so that's one of the frustrating things. And I know like during these times where interest rates, it's like, if I had it at, you know, 2.3% you don't want to refinance in order to with these rates. And so I think that's very painful. Yes, for sure. Yep. And again, it's one of these things to tackle the debt snowball method.

Starting point is 01:13:41 And even looking at the car, I mean, she's still, she can pay off her car in 12 to 18 months, which is kind of our, you know, buffer. So she can keep the car, pay it off. It's not an outrageous, you know, different amount considering her income. But she never needs to borrow from her 401K. Never again. No. Wanda, you hear me.

Starting point is 01:13:59 Thanks for calling in. This is The Ramsey Show. The last thing you need this holiday season is more stuff collecting dust or tech that keeps you glued to screens and up too late. You need better sleep. And that's what you'll get with Casper. Their mattresses are made for deep, uninterrupted rest that keep you cool and comfortable. So you wake up feeling ready, not wrecked. Because rest is not a luxury, it's an investment.

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Starting point is 01:15:28 fighting for you to get the best deal and the best price, honestly. It's probably your largest asset that you're ever going to buy or sell, so you want this to be a really smooth process. And the Ramsey Trosted program is the only way to find a top agent that you can trust who will make sure that your home is a blessing and not a burden. And it's easy because you can compare agent profiles, interview them, and choose the right one that you want to work for you. So find a local trusted real estate pro for free at RamseySolutions.com slash agent or click the link in the description if you are listening to this on podcast or watching on YouTube. We mentioned in an earlier segment, Jade, that, you know, about college and school and all of it.

Starting point is 01:16:10 And it is teacher financial literacy month or teacher appreciation. month and Financial Literacy Month. And we just appreciate teachers around here. I know Jay and I, we both have kids in school. And when you have teachers who are part of your own story from being in school, and now if you have kids that are in school, they're just such a gift. Like these teachers are just absolutely incredible. We love them.

Starting point is 01:16:33 So we do want to honor them. So make sure to enter our teacher appreciation giveaway at r. R.S.com slash teacher. Yes. And we want to celebrate you. So make sure to check that out, teacher. All right, let's go to Sarah in Philadelphia. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help? Okay. So, just really quick. So when I turned 18, I got married to a man who's about 14 years older than me.

Starting point is 01:17:05 We ended up getting a divorce. It was like a really controlling situation. But in the midst, I did get pregnant right as soon as I got married. So I have a baby now. She's going to be five months in May. And so he doesn't help financially. I did stay home after I had the baby. So I was leaning on him financially. And even when we were together, I didn't go to school. So the good part is I don't have any debt or anything.

Starting point is 01:17:33 But the bad part is, like, I don't have like a career path because I went right into being like wife and mother and everything. Sure. And now I just like need help with like. Yeah. Do you, where's your parents, your family situation through all of this from when you got married to now? So we got married and like my parents were not super happy with the idea of me getting married. Not because they didn't want me getting married young.

Starting point is 01:18:05 I can hear the circumstances. Yeah. And they probably picked up some things around town that they probably didn't like being a 34 year old, you know. Exactly. And then, um, so we ended up, um, we ended up getting a divorce time. Staying at my parents now because he took to get in our house. Okay. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. And he, it's okay. Actually, his family has been, not his family, his brother and his brother's wife have been great throughout this. Um, they let me stay in their house for two weeks without like charging me anything. They were super helpful.

Starting point is 01:18:40 when everything happened they were like listen whatever you need we're here for you like his brother will his brother's wife will call me every day his brother was always like if you need any help with the baby like we're here yeah that's great you need that community right now like if you have that to depend on I would because the truth is if you are going to get out of this it's going to require you working some hours like working a full-time job probably to support your family and child care is going to be a huge piece of this. So the question then becomes is what can you do for money, right? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:19:15 So thankfully, I'm staying home with my mom. Like, my parents are thankfully well off. So, like, it's a place that I can stay and I don't have to worry about, like, well, what about the bills? What about, you know, my parents are like, okay with all that stuff. It's just like, I just don't know where to go from here. You know, it's not like I'm in any danger right now. I just don't know.

Starting point is 01:19:36 Yeah. the next steps for you right in life yeah turning because you'll be yeah turning 20 and all of it okay so I um just because of what you've gone through Sarah from a divorce standpoints having a child and I never want to minimize someone because of their age but I am going to say because you're 19 I mean like you're a kid where you're still a teenager technically 19 right so yeah so so that all of those factors I do want to give you so much grace like you're still a teenager you're still figuring out how the world works let alone the responsibility and the events that you've walked through through a divorce already right so like just we have a lot of time here sarah there is no i do not feel like this is a rush situation

Starting point is 01:20:18 there's a lot a lot of grace here okay i just like i'm like sliding down you're not like a hill you know oh yes yeah if you feel probably out of control so i understand that yes but you're not sliding down in an unresponsible way financially or something right you're you're fine okay so i just want you to just. No, yeah, like I have, I have no debt. If I have a lot on credit cards, it's like $40. Like, I have no debt. I have money saved up. I think, don't know what to do. Yep. As the divorce final, is all of that done? Any legal bills or anything outstanding there? So that's finished. And as he have any responsibility, like from the divorce, any child support coming in, any joint. I'm sorry. Oh, okay. She has to file

Starting point is 01:20:58 for child support. So this is only, yeah, this has only been a month. I have to file still. And file for divorce or child support? Yeah. File for just divorce. Oh. Okay. So you're not, okay. Okay.

Starting point is 01:21:10 All right. And yeah. So yeah, that's why I'm like, I feel like everything is exploring. Do you have a good lawyer? Do you have someone? I don't. Legal representation. Okay.

Starting point is 01:21:19 So that would be step one. That's going to be step one. Yeah. Is to find someone in your area who's a great divorce lawyer. I mean, you're going to want somebody they're supporting you. and representing you. So I would honestly, Sarah, I would make that step one

Starting point is 01:21:37 is to find that person because when you file all, this is about to, it's about to snowball into a lot of things and you're going to probably, you or your parents will be paying for some of this too.

Starting point is 01:21:50 So that would be my first goal. Find somebody and then figure out, okay, from a money standpoint. How is this working? How, yeah, how much are we going to have to have? Because that's going to allow you to know. He hasn't helped with the baby. since she was born.

Starting point is 01:22:04 And he might, he might, even while we were married. It'll probably take a court order for him to and even still he might not. And so for you, I think. Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out like what I do without. Like I'm trying not to depend on him at all. Well, don't depend on him. Don't depend on him right now.

Starting point is 01:22:20 What Rachel says, right, first step you get the divorce lawyer. Second step, you sit down with mom and dad and say, okay, we're getting the divorce lawyer. How do we pay for this and find out what help you have and what help you don't have. And in that same conversation, that's also a good time to figure out, okay, mom and dad, like, this thing is happening. I don't live with him anymore and kind of figure out what create a plan and a vision for the future, right? It's how long can I stay here? What's that got

Starting point is 01:22:47 to look like? And guys, everybody set really clear expectations of what that means. Do I, can I stay here for a year? Can I stay here for it? And really talk this through because then when you know what the plan is, you'll feel better and then you'll know what you can actually focus on. If you know that you have 12 months and then at the 12 month point, your parents expect you to either start paying some sort of rent or I don't know what you'll decide. But then that will inform, okay, what do I need to do next? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:23:17 And I would say too, you know, because we always do talk about that expectation like what Jade's saying. And in this case, Sarah, you know, maybe that expectation is dependent upon your next step. Yeah. And how long the divorce takes. It may even be if you need to go back to school and while you're in school you can stay with them right so it's kind of mapping out

Starting point is 01:23:38 and again this is not in a rush Sarah for you I really don't feel like you have to do all of this tonight by any means but this is kind of your next big steps is finding the lawyer filing starting that process and then in the meantime because it's good for you Sarah to be thinking through what does my future look like to Jod's point so what is the next steps what does it look like and just paying a

Starting point is 01:24:00 broad stroke of like, okay, if I'm 23, what does it look like for me to self-sustain? That's right. To pay rents, all that. Do I need a college degree to do that? Do I love, you know, accounting and I probably need to go get, you know, a degree in that? I actually worked as like a secretary for several construction businesses. I like doing that. Okay.

Starting point is 01:24:19 So admin, yeah, administration is probably really a high up in your skill set. Yeah, so finding those kind of things and then backing out from there and say, okay, you know, would I be able just to plug in with one or two businesses? around to be able just to start working, you know, maybe in the next six months and that's great. Or do I need to go back to school, right? And then with your parents being that safety net for you right now, how much are they willing to be a safety net financially for you right now and from a time housing perspective, like what Jada says. But Sarah, stay on the line. I'm going to get you Ken Coleman's book, find the work you're wired to do because that'll help in that in that mindset. And I think

Starting point is 01:24:53 it could just be refreshing to you to have a level of grasp and control over your future. But I'm so sorry about all of this and we just pray that it's a smooth process for you from here on out. Thanks for the call. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with Jade Warshaw. And we're going to Gabrielle in Los Angeles, California. Hi, Gabrielle. Welcome to the show.

Starting point is 01:25:38 Hello, Jade. Hello, Rachel. It's Gabriel. Sorry. Oh, Gabriel. Gosh, I'm sorry. My bad. Thank you, Gabriel, for the fix.

Starting point is 01:25:44 How can we help? All right. I was calling on behalf of my mom. She's 72. She's a widow who never remarried. Currently, she's retired. She's active in her church and she has a home that's almost paid off. It doesn't include taxes and insurance. But lately, she's been asking me for money. It started off small, but it's starting to escalate. How can I help her protect her being independent, but also set up her finances-wise? for the future without becoming dependent on me or my siblings. Yeah, for sure. How old are you?

Starting point is 01:26:23 I'm 40. You're 40. Okay. And her house is almost paid off. Is she still working? She's not. Okay. So she's retired.

Starting point is 01:26:32 Do you know, do you have any idea of numbers of what's in her retirement? She's currently receiving, as far as her retirement savings, she does, I believe she's exhausted them. Okay. She's currently the only income coming in is Social Security. Do you know what that is? I believe it was like 1,100, 1,300, possibly. Oh, wow.

Starting point is 01:26:53 And do you know... She's looking on the bare minimum. Do you know what her mortgage is and what she has left on the mortgage in full? So the mortgage currently outstanding balances around 100K. Okay. And then the mortgage payment is around, I'd say, 1450. Oh, gosh. Okay, well, yeah.

Starting point is 01:27:12 So... How is she paying for every... Right now I have my oldest sister who's living with her and I believe they're splitting the cost of the mortgage. Okay. So they're half and half. Okay. So it's that's 700. And then everything else, I mean, is she able to pay for, is your sister splitting other bills? Do you know like electricity, water or all of that? Yeah. So from what I understand is that my other siblings, she approaches each sibling individually and asks for help. whether it's covering a bill or a few dollars here and there. Yeah. And it's for real needs.

Starting point is 01:27:49 It's not for. Yeah. Is she able-bodied to go to work? Is she able to work? She is able-bodied. However, she hasn't worked in some time. Yeah, that's so hard. I mean, the reality is she either, yeah, I mean, if she has no money and all she's

Starting point is 01:28:07 getting is Social Security, it's not enough, to your point, when taxes are due for property tax I mean when she pays off the house you know she's got to pay for property tax and all that what's the home worth I'm just curious if she were to sell it if she were to sell it what would it be worth um conservatively probably about 1.1 million um it's a five bedroom three bath um as far as her renting up a room that's also been thrown around but i hate that for her require uh me involving myself. I'm just wondering about, is there like a, go ahead, Jay. I'm just wondering, because my head is that she's 72, she's still fairly young and she's in good health. She could live till 92, right? So in my mind, I, as in my mind, I look at $1 million that she stands to take away from this. And I go, okay, we can

Starting point is 01:29:04 throw a decent amount and invest it and start that fund going. And then maybe she can buy a condo for you know, 250 or 300. I mean, you're in Los Angeles. I don't know what's there. What's possible? Can she buy something that's very small just for her? And then your sister goes and does her own thing because I'm also thinking what happens if the sister moves out and gets married or moves on in life, right?

Starting point is 01:29:29 So there's a lot of variables here. I'd love for her to get some hands on that money, get some of it invested and get some of it in a smaller, modest living space for her. Yeah, I think that's what I envisioned for her. I just don't know where to start. I think if I do get the ball rolling, I'm seeing it through start to finish. So where would I start? Well, I would start with, is everybody in Los Angeles, like your whole family,

Starting point is 01:30:01 or do you have family that lives in less expensive areas of the country? No, we're all basically based out of the Los Angeles area. Okay. Have you looked at? or would you know price ranges of, again, a very modest one-bedroom condo that she could purchase. One-bedroom, one-bath condo purchase outright. Possibly in the areas that were worrying, like around.

Starting point is 01:30:24 Oh, outskirts. Well, yeah, because she's got to be able to afford it. 400. 400, okay. Okay. So then she could invest 500, you know. Yeah. I'm not mad at that.

Starting point is 01:30:35 And get that ball rolling. And then, again, if she's able to not pull from those. investments and maybe for just three years work somewhere just to pay just the you know just mortgage i'm sorry not mortgage hopefully it's paid for yeah taxes taxes you know lights water food um and and just not touch that money as long as possible and let it grow and then live off of that because it's either going to be that or or you guys as as as grown kid adults all have to say okay mom's not going to be able to afford this long term are we going to be willing to support her in it. So that would

Starting point is 01:31:12 have to be a conversation that you guys have. Will she sell? Do you, I mean, if you imagine yourself bringing this up to her, what does that look like? The last time that I brought up the conversation to her, it was emotional. Yeah. Yeah. For me, it's pretty straightforward. I mean, the way that we're talking right now

Starting point is 01:31:28 is the way that I talk with her. And, you know, she's open to it. But again, she kind of pushes the work onto me. So And so do my siblings. Do they kind of look to you, your sisters, too, to say, like, what do you think?

Starting point is 01:31:47 No, they don't have an opinion as far as what she should do. They feel that, you know, it's our home that we grew up in and that she should hold on to it. And she's only got such and such ways to go. Listen, there's no getting around the fact that this is emotional. like I'm telling people all the time, that plays such a factor in how we manage the money. But if we look at the numbers, the math is not emotional. She doesn't have any money. She doesn't have anything.

Starting point is 01:32:20 And she's healthy. She has a lot of years ahead of her. So she's got to get to the point where the discomfort, the discomfort of staying the same is more uncomfortable than changing. Right. And that's going to, you're starting, she's going to start to feel the cracks in that when you guys stop supplying the money if that makes sense the more that you got and it's your choice but the more that you say okay we'll float it will float it will float it will float it just know that it'll float

Starting point is 01:32:45 for the yeah for the next 20 years yeah so you guys have to kind of get on the same page of saying we can talk to her about this but if she doesn't do it we have to allow her to feel it because when she feels it is when she's going to realize okay I have a difficult choice to make and just try to support her as much as you can. And it is emotional. It is tough. It's your family home. There's nothing comfortable about that. But the solution often lies outside the comfort zone.

Starting point is 01:33:12 So it sounds like my next steps might be like two part, right? It's kind of initiating that conversation with my mom about selling the home possibly. And then as far as with my siblings, it's having that conversation. If we're going to do this, we need to stop enabling her

Starting point is 01:33:28 and giving her money essentially. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, that's what I would do. And even pull some options. You can even get in touch with one of our real estate pros. Yeah, just to look for the area, like what's in the areas of where you guys are, just different options condo-wise. And, you know, there could be one a mile down so she doesn't have to move major locations, right?

Starting point is 01:33:51 Maybe it's just the actual home itself. But run some numbers and kind of get some more facts around it. But, yeah, this is difficult. Hey, George Camel here. so you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

Starting point is 01:34:17 You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

Starting point is 01:34:34 So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash real estate. That's Ramsey Solutions.com slash real estate. When it comes to debt or building wealth, people often can forget an important step when it comes to reaching their goals, and that's having insurance and having the right coverage, or too little or too much can really impact how long it takes you to build wealth. So skimping on insurance might feel like saving, but when life happens, it is not great because you may not have a safety net that you need,

Starting point is 01:35:19 and we don't want debt to be that safety net. So the right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and your wallet if disaster strikes. And in some cases, it can save you money if you're paying too much for insurance. So how do you know if you have the right coverage? Make sure to take the coverage checkup. It's an online free resource

Starting point is 01:35:38 that creates a personalized insurance action plan for you that's unique to your situation. And it makes an overly confusing topic really easy to understand. gives you the next step specifically for you and your situation. So go to ramsysolutions.com slash checkup to take the coverage, check up, or click the link in the description if you are watching on YouTube or listening on podcast. Up next we have Derek in San Jose.

Starting point is 01:36:04 Hi, Derek. Welcome to the show. Hey, Rachel. I'm a big fan. It's a real honor to speak with you. Thanks so much for taking my call. Absolutely. Thanks for calling in.

Starting point is 01:36:12 How can we help? So I recently got engaged. my fiance and I are both 36 years old. We're looking to start a Brady bunch. We've got five kids between 10 and 12 between us. Oh, wow. Between 10 and 12, is that what you said? Yeah, I have twin sons who are 11, and she has a 10-year-old, 11-year-old, and 12-year-old.

Starting point is 01:36:33 Oh, my gosh. That's going to be a houseful. That's fun. So great. Yeah, it's been really fun. Yeah. So the reason I'm calling is because we have a pretty large difference in assets. and I think based on your advice, the advice would be that we should get a pre-up.

Starting point is 01:36:52 So I have roughly $12 million, and she has roughly $50,000. And so we started the process of looking into a pre-up, and it's been an emotional one. And I totally understand why. And I think especially, like, we went through a questionnaire talking together about it, but then when we got the first draft, back from my lawyer, that's when she's really not been feeling good about it. And I understand the concern. So, I mean, she feels like I wouldn't be fully entering the marriage

Starting point is 01:37:21 in the same way that she is because it feels like I'm holding assets, like, separately off to the side. And I'm sensitive to that, and especially in some of the context of her former relationship. And so I'm just looking for maybe more clarity and, like, what you guys would recommend. Oh man, this is a hard one Because It is I think it is a wise decision to do one And I say that even more

Starting point is 01:37:51 I have a friend who's going through Not a great situation And she came in with a lot more And now he's just, I mean it's just messy It's messy messy messy and there's a level Again, you're not You're hoping and praying obviously that this is the one And that it's going to last a lifetime

Starting point is 01:38:09 but as you guys have experienced, you know, there is a reality to all of this. And whenever any of us get married, right? I think there is like this like, okay, I'm choosing you for a reason and for a lifetime. But we also don't live under a rock and know that things change in life and situations come up. And unfortunately, some really hard things happen and does cause as marriages to break up, right? to enter into divorce and we don't want that. So what were the part, I'm curious, what were the parts of it that was making her,

Starting point is 01:38:46 because you guys went through a questionnaire together and it didn't sound like the questionnaire brought up a lot of red flags, but when she was actually like reading it, does she feel like she won't be taken care of if something happens or like what, what's that underlying? That's a concern, yeah, yes.

Starting point is 01:39:00 And I think especially like, you know, her kids as well too. something that I want to address and I think we could address like in a will or like some other document or method after we get married and it's something that I want to do like I absolutely would want her and her kids to be taken care of to if something you know didn't happen to us I think it also it feels very condescending to her that like the but that either she and I don't see it being a problem for her at all like my goal in this and I think that's what your advice is is that in our case that I know is rare it would

Starting point is 01:39:40 help protect our marriage and that's what I want to do but I totally understand that she feels it's condescending like to her maybe her and her family and her friends that they might be a problem and if we would need this to like protect against them can I can I ask how how stringent this pre-nup is like how strict it is because when I've heard calls about this before My question is always, is there a way that this can be more progressive that over, maybe over time and over years, some of the restrictions fall off? Like, does that make sense to where it's like the longer we're together? And the more that this feels right, some of this starts to fall off.

Starting point is 01:40:25 And now we start to become one. And after a while, it's all gone. And we are one. Is there anything built in like that? So there's nothing currently built in like that. So other than that, it's pretty basic. So everything we enter into the marriage with is separate property, except she has a small amount of debt,

Starting point is 01:40:41 and she's been awesome about eliminating debts, especially the situation she came from. I don't want her to carry at all. Like, we would just pay it off. And then everything after the date of the marriage is shared, so income that I make or she made, we just share it. Our plan is that she would stop working. She'd be able to be home with all these kids.

Starting point is 01:41:02 Does that include interest on the $12 million? as that grows or does any growth on that 12 million remain yours? Yeah, so at least as it's currently structured, the growth in that would remain mine. I think we have talked about it's not in the document, but like if I were to stop working to also help with the kids, which would be an option, like the income that we drew from that would be considered our income. I think I would. Yeah, I'd be wondering about that if I were entering in that marriage.

Starting point is 01:41:29 Like how can we protect what you've already created? but how can I be a player and how that grows from here on out? Like how can I be a part of that? I think I might be wondering about that. That's tough, man. Yeah, and then the only other additional part is we're planning to get a house

Starting point is 01:41:48 and I was just going to buy the house. We title it in both of our names. I just consider a community property. Yeah. Yeah, well, it sounds like you're being very gracious about this, Derek. I think it's such a hard line to be wise in a situation and being, I mean, you don't sound like you're drawing these crazy hard lines

Starting point is 01:42:08 and you know what you mean? And you're pushing it. Like it's your tone feels very humble and gracious, which I, yeah, I mean, I think she probably very much appreciates. So, yeah, I'm trying to think if I were in her position, which you never can fully do for somebody, you know, there's a part of me that. I don't know. I think I would understand you're coming in with 12 million. And I understand that's not mine right now, right? Like there's, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:42:39 Yeah. This one's hard for me. I see. Are you an anti-prena? No, I'm not. I would not go that far. I think it's just, it's, it is a very tough way to start out in marriage, clearly. Yes. Because we're dividing yours versus mine. Yeah. And everything else in the marriage is out, is we say we, us our. So it is tough. And if you're a person, person let's you know I'll put myself in the shoes uh me I've always viewed oh when you end her marriage it's like this yes you don't know who you're going to fall in love with and that person happens to be loaded and now suddenly you're like oh this picture I had of it being ours is not possible that's just tough I'm not saying it's wrong it's just yeah yeah well and I think too

Starting point is 01:43:24 Derek I think it's too I think it can feel like the 12 million's off in this corner and it's never, we're never going to participate in it. But I think it comes into it's mine if something happens. But up until that point, it's ours. Like we're sharing assets. That's a good point. That is a very good point. We are living our lives together as one. But for some reason, if if something ever happened in a divorce, this part still goes back to me. Does that make sense? I wonder if framing it. That's a good way to frame it. With her. Because it can be hers, right? Like you guys can share on this. It's the only time it's not hers is if you guys legally go through a divorce. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, it totally makes sense. And that is how we want to live

Starting point is 01:44:06 going into the marriage. Yeah. And it sounds like that's, yeah, and that sounds like your attitude because you're going to take some of our money and we're going to buy a house together with this money and use this money for our family. So I think it's, it's such a fine line, Derek. I mean, it's so hard. But I think I would keep in a third party. If there's a great marriage counselor or therapist, honestly, it's something to think through and even get other opinions because, yeah, you want to be on the same page with this. Hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with money but still stuck? I was you.

Starting point is 01:44:43 In debt, running hard but taking three steps forward and two steps back. Turns out, it's not the numbers. It's the fact that changing our ways with money is emotional. That's why I wrote my brand new book, what no one tells you about money, to help you push past what's really been sabotaging your progress so you can finally win. You can pre-order now and score over $100 in free bonus items,

Starting point is 01:45:03 but only if you order by January 5th,000. 5th, go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash store today. The all new every dollar is here, and it is way more than just the incredible budgeting app that it is. It now has tons of advanced features to help you make progress with your money so much faster. And the average person is finding thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So get every dollar for free starting today.

Starting point is 01:45:46 Just get it in the app store or Google Play. All right. Let's go to Alex in Grand Rapids. again. Hey, Alex, welcome to the show. Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call. Absolutely. So I am, I'm 28 and debt-free. I'm looking to buy a tiny house to put on my parents' property. Without a credit score now, I'm in a tiny house technically not qualifying for a mortgage. How do I go about getting a loan for it? Well, let's talk about the loan process and then we'll talk about the tiny house on your parents' property. So with the loan process, if you have no credit score,

Starting point is 01:46:21 you're just going to have to find a place that does manual underwriting for that. Now, we would recommend Churchill mortgage. There are companies that do that, and you just have to check and make sure they'll do it in your area. But it's the same process. You're just going to have to show different trade lines. You're going to have to show your pay subs. You're going to have to show proof of income. If you work for yourself, you're going to have to show your tax returns, that sort of thing.

Starting point is 01:46:43 But for the most part, the process is the same. But you're saying it doesn't qualify for a mortgage because it's a tiny house? Correct, yeah. So if it's under 400 square feet, I'm looking at 15 square feet. It doesn't qualify for a mortgage. What's the cost of it? I'm looking at about 40 to 50,000. Oh, we'll save up and pay for it, Alex. I'm sorry? Save up and pay for it. It's like a car. Right now I only have about 10,000. Okay. Well, then just wait a little bit. Yeah. So just put, be putting some money aside to $3,000 a month and just work your way up and probably, you know, 12, $1,000,000. months, then you can do it. Can I ask the long-term strategy on this?

Starting point is 01:47:25 Yeah. So I have autism and I can't really live independently. So it's pseudo-independent being on my parents' property. Got you. Got you. Okay. What are you doing for work? I coordinate volunteers for hospice. Cool. Are your parents involved at all, Alex, in this process? Would they be able to help you? Not financially, no. But they've been great support. Okay. Okay, great. How long did it take you to save up the 10,000? I just finished. I got debt free in February and then saved up like $6,000 for my emergency fund. And it's so, I don't know, last six months. Okay. Yeah, I'm with Rachel. Just keep saving for this. It seems like you've thought through the best way for you to live. And I like

Starting point is 01:48:18 that you've thought through that. I don't think you need to go into debt for this. And for anybody who is listening to my zero score spiel, that's for... And mortgage, no, but that's it. Yeah. That are trying to do a full mortgage on zero credit score. But yeah, save up for it. I like the 40 to 50,000. Just understand that you, that this is yours. Like, the resale on this virtually doesn't exist because it's on your parents' property. And this is money that you'll likely never get back. So understanding that is important, I'd say. Yeah. Yeah, so running the, yeah, I mean, so it will, are you able to pick up extra work, Alex? Yeah, I'm looking for a second part-time job.

Starting point is 01:48:57 Okay, good for you. You sound incredible. I mean, the fact, I mean, you're very ambitious, you're very well-spoken, you know what you want, you've been doing the baby steps, you've been debt-free, got your fully funded emergency fund. I mean, you're literally doing it all. The only thing that's going to suck is, like, the next probably three years of saving for this, you know what I mean? You just look at it, like, you know, and people want to save up for, you know, and people want to save up for, a car. They want to save up for a college education, right? And these numbers, these are big numbers. I'm definitely not downplaying that. It's just, so it's going to just take you longer to do it.

Starting point is 01:49:27 And even though I guess technically, you know, I guess you could Ramsey, you know, go through it to say, well, but a mortgage is the one type of debt. And this is for a house. But the fact that it's, the fact that there is no resale, because the one reason we do say a mortgage, not only is because it is the most expensive thing that you're ever going to purchase as a home, but also, you're So homes go up in value over time. And this is more like a car in a sense where it's going to go down in value. And so getting into debt, even a personal loan for this, financially would not be wise. So it really would be you putting money aside.

Starting point is 01:50:04 And I mean, I don't know about the market in tiny homes. Can you can you buy or buy used ones? Can you buy a used one? Yeah, that's what I'm looking at. I'm looking at them on Facebook Marketplace. Okay, okay. So maybe you can. could even, Alex, I don't know, because for some people, they may want it off their property.

Starting point is 01:50:22 There may be some urgency to get one off. So maybe you could even negotiate with them and say, hey, if I have cash, you know, what's the lowest? You wouldn't be able to do that today because you don't have that amount. But when you're getting closer to that in, you know, three years or something, I mean, you may be able to negotiate for a lower price. Yeah. Absolutely, Alex. Yep, thanks for the call. And I, again, I think, yeah, I just wouldn't do that. I wouldn't go to debt routes. I wouldn't either. And because you never know, especially if you're already buying it used, what type of resale would be. Yeah. On maybe, you know, selling it in the future. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Let's go to Elijah in Salt Lake City. Hi, Elijah. Welcome to the show.

Starting point is 01:51:03 Hey, how's it going? I just have a question. I am 22 years old. I'm currently going to college right now. I've always been with my bachelor's degree. I have only about a year left. I'm only about 14. thousand in student loan debt. So almost done. But yeah, that's my only debt, no credit card debt, nothing, no car loan, nothing like that. And I guess my question is, well, I'm looking to go into law enforcement after I graduate. I guess my question is, is it worth it to stay for a master's degree if I get an extra like pay incentive for the rest of my career or if I should just, once I get my bachelor's degree, take that pay incentive and just start working. Well, what would it cost you to get your master's? How would you pay for it?

Starting point is 01:51:46 So that one would be, it would be loans. But it would be for a total about master's degree, I've been doing my research about 18,000 for the college that I'd be going to. And what's the difference in job that you would get if you just went into the police department with a bachelor's versus a master's? Yeah. So if I went in with a bachelor's degree, I'd be getting a 3% paying incentive for the rest of my career. If I went in with a master's degree, I'd be getting 5% pay incentives.

Starting point is 01:52:11 So I guess my question is it would take a long time to repay that, like get that money more. birth with that extra 2% every year. But I do really enjoy college. I do want to get married before I leave college and I enjoy my hobby. So I just don't know if it makes financial sense to get a master's degree. Not on debt. Not on debt, but I'm wondering if there's a way that you can cash flow. Are you working at all? And my next question is, do you have to do it right away or can you work on it later while you're in law enforcement and still get the 5% bump? Yeah, you can still get the 5% bump. I've just heard from a lot of people that, you know, it's really hard once you're starting this full-time job to go back.

Starting point is 01:52:52 Yeah, I mean, how much are you getting paid like your first year that you're working? So, yeah, first year, if with a bachelor's degree would be about 90K. Okay. And then with a master's degree, if I came in first year, it would be about 95. Okay. So that's my thing is that the percentage-wise is not big. I mean, we're talking maybe a $4,000 difference. and you could do that in two months with a side gig.

Starting point is 01:53:15 You know what I mean? So there's a part of me, and I know, I mean, we have friends in law enforcement, and they even move around, they get up to detective, or they, you know, move around within it. That can change your pay over time as well. So, yeah, I think if you had the money and you wanted to do it, I don't think, I mean, I don't think I would stop you. But also, since you don't have the money, it's kind of, that's a no-go for me personally. Okay, yeah.

Starting point is 01:53:42 So you would just, you would, okay. So you wouldn't be, okay, with, you know, taking out student loans for the master's degree. No. Okay. Yeah, I'd get this paid off. And, man, I wish we had a Ramsey dating app because I feel like we had a lot of calls of some ladies that are always single, Elish. And they're always looking for a man. And we could have pointed them your way.

Starting point is 01:54:02 I know. I know. No, I appreciate the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, proactiveness of love. I do. I do. because I do think that's great. I am for getting married young and enjoy, you know. And what he said is true.

Starting point is 01:54:17 Like, when you're in college, there's people right there to choose from. Once you get out in the world, it's like, I got to work. I got to go out after hours. It's exhausting. You know. It's absolutely exhausting. I got to go to an event, get dressed up college. It's like you got your pick right there.

Starting point is 01:54:33 Got them right there. Oh, Elijah. Yeah. I hope that helps. So, yeah, if there's not the cash, but to Jade's point, if you're able to somehow cash flow, or even if you get into a situation where they help pay for half of it, I don't know. You know, your work, that would be incredible too. So I hope that helps.

Starting point is 01:54:48 And, yeah, good luck. Everywhere you turn right now, you're being told a lie about money, that you can't get ahead, that you can't survive without debt. And those lies are keeping you broke. Don't buy into it. Yes, there's a lot of noise and chaos and confusion out there. But there's also hope. The truth is you have more control than you think. This year, it's time to take back your hard-earned money and your life.

Starting point is 01:55:35 And it starts by joining our free live stream. On January 8th, me and Jade Warshot will show you how to go from chaos to clarity with your money. Help you break free from debt and change your family tree, all by using the all-new, every dollar app. Plus 10 people who sign up will win $2,000 cash. Don't let this be another year of I Can't. Sign up for free at every dollar.com slash live stream. Our scripture of the day comes from Philippians 313 through 14.

Starting point is 01:56:21 One thing I do, forgetting what is behind and straining towards what is ahead. I press toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Jesus Christ. Booker T. Washington said, You measure the size of the accomplishments by the obstacles you have to overcome to reach. your goals. That's good. That's really good. Love it. Love it, love it. All right. Up next, we have Jacob in Grand Rapids. Hi, Jacob. Welcome to the show. You're doing. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Recently this year, I've had a change in my whole money, and it's really been having, you know, $3,000 in a checking account for emergency,

Starting point is 01:57:04 putting everything else towards a high-yield savings account or cash plus account to some banks. and then, you know, maxing out my Roth IRA as much as I can every year, as well as, you know, traditional brokerage investments. But it really got me thinking, it's like, can you live with these cash plus accounts or high-yield savings accounts, considering that they accept direct deposits and bill pay and, you know, you can deposit checks? Can you only live with using a high-yield saving account with a credit card? And if so, like, what's a disadvantage with that without going through, you know,

Starting point is 01:57:37 your traditional local bank or even your commercial bank like the bigger ones, right? Yeah, well, from a high yield perspective, usually you have a limit on how many withdrawals you can have. So you can't use it like a full checking account. Sometimes they have a limit of five is what I see most of the time. But yeah, you will get a debit card and a checkbook with that. So you can, you can, you know, take money out of it. But you can't, I mean, if you think about you know, the expense. I just think about my every dollar app. And when I open it, it's like 15 transactions, you know,

Starting point is 01:58:12 and it's like an Amazon, an Amazon, grocery, Netflix. I mean, so you're, you have a lot of transactions coming out that will not, it'll, it'll exceed the limit of most high-yield savings accounts. I see. Yep. So there really, there really isn't much as long as, you know, whatever company you go with, making sure they don't have those limits and whatnot. for a high yield at least.

Starting point is 01:58:37 Well, they do. They will. Yeah. A high yield usually does have a limit of how many withdrawals you can have per month. Yeah. So a traditional checking out. Now, I will say, Jacob, there are some, and we're actually kind of in talks with one right now, possibly for the Ramsey Show. There are now banks that are offering a higher percentage rate, maybe like a two to three percent for checking.

Starting point is 01:59:00 Just a normal checking. Yeah. Which is great versus, I think our checking is like less than one percent or something. don't think we basically get anything from it. So there may be some more on the market that are great. It wouldn't be considered a high yield savings. It would be considered a checking account. But there are some banks that are offering, usually online banks, are offering more of a higher interest rate on just a traditional checking account. So that's something you could look into if you wanted to. No, that is true. I've been saying that with a lot of banks. Like I'm looking at one,

Starting point is 01:59:28 like this vanguard. That's the one I was looking at. It is labeled a cash plus account. It might not be high yield. I guess that's where my kind of question, or to myself, was a bit confusing. But the main motivation behind it is, you know, making my money work for me, right? And making sure that it's not sitting and, you know, yeah, for sure. But I would say the account, the money you have in your checking or the way I look at it, Jacob, is that money's sitting there not to make me money, it's to keep my life afloat. I mean, that in my investments are there to make money for me, just like you're saying, my high yield savings, it's there for a little bit of that bridge mentality

Starting point is 02:00:05 of like we have a lot, you know, we had a good amount of money in our high yield because we were building a pool, so we were writing some checks out of it throughout this past year. But I'd rather it sit in a high yield savings versus a checking account, but yet I know my high yield savings

Starting point is 02:00:19 is not where I'm going to make a ton of money. That's not why it's there. It's fine to have it sit there some savings because it will make more than a checking account. But I look at, for me, my investments from real, from retirement. Winston, I have a separate mutual fund. And then we also have some real estate. So like I look at those as where my money makes money, not necessarily my high yield savings or my checking.

Starting point is 02:00:42 So I wonder if from your mentality perspective, Jacob, to kind of like loosen that a little bit and maybe maybe put some more like emotional parameters around these accounts. I think so. It's also about the habits you're forming. Like when when you tell me that, I'm thinking you're building the habit of I have a block of savings and I can pull. from that block of savings for normal every day. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. As opposed to when you're checking accounts and your checking account, I only use this for day-to-day, you know, day-to-day purchases. And my savings over here, I only touch it if it's an emergency.

Starting point is 02:01:14 And this H-YSA, I only, you do what I'm saying? So you're building those habits. And when you blur the lines like that, I think also to Rachel's point, it just, I think it causes confusion. Yeah. Yeah. Personally. But, yeah, I wouldn't do it.

Starting point is 02:01:29 There are definitely worse things you can. could do. You know what I'm saying? For sure. I wouldn't do it. Yeah. Does that help? Yeah. That's where, no, it definitely does help. And, you know, that's where I'm going eventually. I have money set aside. I mean, a little background for an investment property, a multifamily unit. And it's just been sitting in, you know, I think like a point one percent.

Starting point is 02:01:51 So I was like, you know, I got to move this. Yes, for sure. And I would say this. Yeah. And I would say this too, Jacob. If that, I love that real estate goal for you. And if it's going to be longer than five, years. You could even drop that in the SMP 500 through Vanguard if you wanted. There you go. If it's longer than five years, you could invest it. It's going to go up and down. It's not going to be as steady as just a high yield savings. But high yield savings, you're only going to get four to five percent. Now, if it's less than five years, I wouldn't probably risk it

Starting point is 02:02:17 putting in the market. But if you know it's going to be longer than five years, you could drop part of it, you know, maybe not all of it, maybe some of it, maybe all of it, into just the S&P. Yeah, that is very smart because it compounds. And it's a good performance. Yeah, for sure. So again, that answer my question. Okay. Perfect. Well, thanks for the call. Jacob. You're a sharp guy, sharp young guy. Sharp young man to be able to be thinking about all of this, which is great. So again, you guys, just to kind of like clear that up. You know, you want to have your checking. You want to have some savings. And we love a high yield or a money market account. But in that, you're going to have your emergency funds, some short-term savings that you're looking towards once you're debt-free and have your fully funded emergency fund. Maybe your down payment you're saving up for could go in the high-yield. And then beyond that, be investing. And retirement is your number one priority with investing. 15% of your income will go into that.

Starting point is 02:03:10 And that's Roth IRAs, 401Ks, 403Bs. Now, I keep my emergency for, like, Sam and I keep our emergency fund in one high yield. And then we keep another high yield for, like, renovation, like things like that. Is that what you do? I just like it over there. Yes, that's how I am. That's how I am. I'm like, don't count that.

Starting point is 02:03:31 Like, I like to forget it's even. I know. And I'm such the free spirits, even though I'm like, talk about money every day for my job. And I'm always like, hey, babe, out of all their accounts, like, well, how much is in this? And he, like, gives me the number. I'm like, that's not including the emergency fund. Is it like, no, it's not including the emergency fund. I'm like, I just can't even like emotionally, yep, go there. But, but, but yeah, those are, those are some great questions. And, you know, we were, um, the high yield savings, the returns have gone down a little bit. We saw them. They were crazy.

Starting point is 02:03:58 They were like five point. Yeah. It was wild, wild, wild. So that's always a thing to remember two in the economy when interest rates go up it's bad when you're in debt because you're having to pay that interest but when you're earning the interest uh yeah it might be might be great um all right let's go to tic talk we'll close out the show with a little tic talk we got brian and he said because of your show we're living the dream we're tired early and traveling the country in our RV and we can't stop saving and eating cheaply how can we eat steaks rips seafood without guilt i thought that's that without a grill oh i was like wait wait wait basically how do you enjoy life on baby on baby step i think they're on seven i think they're they're done they're living a dream so i'll

Starting point is 02:04:38 give you my framework for like so basically they're feeling guilty about their spending is that what they're saying okay they have the money so i love this because sam and i sometimes feel the same way like whenever you've gone through a struggle and you've sacrificed to win you do it's like oh like you're afraid you're going to mess it all up right and so here's what five pillars of personal finance go jade here we're and if you check the boxes then you're a financially responsive adult. Love it. So number one, are you living on a budget? Okay. Green check. Ding. Number two, are you a person who is living out of debt? Like you're out of debt. You don't have a debt. Ding, check that box. If you're, I carry the proper insurances. Do I have the proper insurances? Yes.

Starting point is 02:05:17 Check that box. Am I a person who's saving for the future? Am I doing, you know, my 15% to retirement? Am I doing the 529? Am I investing in my, you know, four savings account through my home? Ding. And am I prioritizing giving? If you're green checking all. all those boxes, permission to spend to use your phrase. Enjoy some life. I love it. I love it. I hope that helps Brian.

Starting point is 02:05:39 Enjoy the RV life. The retired life, that is. I love it. Oh, thanks to all the guys in the booth for helping out, Jade. Thanks for the great hour. And remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.

The Ramsey Show - You Cant Win With Money When Your Relationships Are Messy

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