The Ramsey Show - You Don't Get Ahead By Coincidence

Episode Date: April 17, 2026

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show, alongside the fabulously incomparable Jade Warshaugh. I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here for you.

AAA 825-5-2-2-25 is the phone number to jump in. AAA 8255-2-2-25. Partner, you ready to go? Let's go. She's ready. Denise is joining us in Toronto. Denise, how can we help today? Hello, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. My question, I am needing help to create financial stability when I'm starting over in life at the age of 51, and I'm in a difficult situation going through a divorce. And I feel like I don't have time to waste with taking steps forward financially. And so I need a plan. I'm guessing you need any more information than that.

So let's start with, are you employed? I am employed, yeah. How much do you make? So I make $45,000 a year, which after taxes where I live comes out to be about 2,500 a month. Okay. Can you live on 2,500 a month? I am, yes, I'm making it work. Okay. So that's a good starting point. The reason I'm stopping this momentum here, Jade's going to jump in and walk you through some really specific stuff, but let's just pause for a moment and let's take a deep breath and realize what you just told us. It's not ideal. Right.

It kind of sucks, but we can live. And I think that's really important to hold on to, Jade, as she's about ready to go into a new life. So you're going to be okay and make it. Now let's bring Jane in and let's talk about how we thrive. Sure. So give us more of your financial picture. What do we need to know that we don't know? I am renting.

I pay $1,500 a month in rent. For a 400 square foot apartment. And just to backtrack a little bit, coming out of the divorce, it's possibly going into court soon for zero transparency and dishonest disclosure of his income. So there's a lot of difficulty there, and I'm not sure I'll recover or get anything. Sure. How are you paying for lawyers? How are you paying for that?

Right now, I have $4,000. in legal fees. And my lawyer is either going to be paid after a settlement for what is owed to me is possibly recovered. But there's no guarantee on that. What is owed to you? There was a 10-year separation where he was being dishonest about his income. And so there's $237,000.

Oh, wow. it should have been paid to me but he's been very strategic and okay and so I mean there's a lot of backstory there but as soon as I went to a lawyer to get help he walked away from his job, lowered his income

so there's 237,000 at stake I don't want us to focus too much on that because the truth is you don't know if you're going to get it or not I do want to be have some thoughts about this these legal fees coming up because you might be on the hook for that Is there any other debt to speak of? Right now I've about $2,000 in credit card debt, which should be pay off by, I should pay it off by the end of this year, no problem.

Okay, I want to camp out on that because I'm seeing somebody who has $1,000 to spend on groceries, gas, and everything else in life. How are you paying off the $2K, no problem? I've just putting aside money every month. Okay. And I feel like at the end, like I'm living very small. Yeah. How much margin do you have? So after everything is said and done, my cost of living can be around $2,300 a month.

Okay, so you got $200 an extra margin, but you called because there's a sense of urgency around really your future. My future and my question, you know, I look at, and I watch the shows. I'm, you know, I have a thousand in savings now. I'm kind of looking at the steps forward, but should I be investing, you know, is retirement possible? for me. Yeah, let's talk about that. So I want to kind of dial back and put this in order of importance. So the first thing is I love the fact that you've got $200 of margin to Ken's point earlier. That should help you sleep at night knowing, hey, I'm not in the red. However, we both know it can't continue like this. And honestly, the ways forward, there's nothing else to cut out of the budget.

There's nothing else on that end. This is an income issue. Therefore, this is a career issue. And so my question for you is the type of work that you're doing now. Is that the type of work you see yourself doing in the next two to three years? Yes. So I'm currently a church office administrator, and I've always been in ministry my whole life. But I'm looking at that, and I'm looking at being self-sustainable financially, and so I'm even thinking, look, right now it's keeping me afloat. But is there a way for that, is there a trajectory for that income to increase?

over time. No. And that's, right now, yeah. That's where I'm at because if I'm just being conservative with you, if I, if I say, okay, best case scenario, she takes that $200 and she starts investing it immediately from age 51 to age 71, that's $151,000. Like, that's not going to sustain you. And so we have to have a very real conversation in reality about what it actually takes

monetarily for you to be able to retire. And the answer to that is income. How would you describe, Denise? I want you to take the ministry language out of it. You'll understand why I'm asking this in a moment. Sure. I want you to describe what you do. Right now I work in administration, and so I'm running an entire church right now because we're without a pastor.

So I do music. I do graphic design, the social media part of it, everything. Do you do operations? Yes, yeah. Okay. Here's why I asked you the question. I think this is an important exercise for you to describe what you do. Now, your situation is it's kind of a, you're doing everything right now. So we need to extrapolate, kind of pull back from that a little bit and go, okay, if there was a pastor there and the adequate staff, what would you be doing? And here's why I think this is important. I know you love ministry. I know you've been in ministry, but right now ministry is not the best financial option for you. And if you could go get a job as an office manager or maybe a project manager where we're making 55, 60. I mean, I'm just, again, I don't know the Canadian workplace. I don't know the marketplace, but I know that I'm saying things that are adjacent. You have the skill set and the experience to do those things, true or false?

True. Okay. Right now, the number one thing you need to do is you need to replace your job. And this is not, I love my church, there's no pastor. if I leave, the church is in trouble, that's not your problem. Right. There are two ships in this conversation that are taking on a lot of water. The church and you.

And I'm not worried about the church. The church will be fine. I am worried about you. So I think Jay's absolutely right. We need to juice that income by $15,000, $25,000. Yes. And now that gives me breathing room. I can pay off the lawyer debt.

I can self-sustain. and begin to move on, and then I can invest and work in the baby steps. So hang in line. We're going to give you total money makeover. That's your plan. That is your plan going forward. We're very sorry, by the way, that you're going through this. And understand, you're in a season of grief right now.

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Identity theft is everywhere. Zander is how you fight back. Zander.com. Next we go to Minneapolis where Jennifer awaits. Jennifer, how can we help? Hi. I am coming into a bunch of money through a settlement, and I just, I don't have any financial background. I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I'm going to go through the baby steps very quickly once I get that money. then I have no clue what I'm doing here. Wow.

So I can tell this money right now feels a little bit like a stressor, and I can understand that. How much money is it? So the floor is a quarter million dollars, and the ceiling is $5 million. Whoa. Wow. That's a big stretch. Can you give us some variables as to what you know, which would determine where it lands

in that massive range? basically it's whatever like there's a history of settlements with this particular company the highest one settled for 180 million dollars but it's not like that's not a hundred percent my situation when will you know um my attorneys told me it'll settle this year okay okay um but you know for a fact you know for a fact you're getting $250 at least? Minimum, yes. And you know that for a fact? For a fact, yeah. Okay. How much, so tell us to your financial situation. Give us a picture because you've said, hey, I'm not financially literate. What is that equated to? How much debt? Tell us what's going on. Okay. So my, the most I've ever made in a single year is $42,000. And like, so we just did our taxes last.

here and we did $31,000. Between the two of you? Yeah. You and your husband. Yeah. What kind of work is that? Well, initially, he was working at a foundry and then he moved across the country for a better job, which was also a foundry, but just more money. But what about you? I don't work. And you've never worked? I've worked, like, I think in my life I've worked a total of maybe three years. Why is that? It's hard to tell, like, one thing because it doesn't make sense on its own. Like, everything's kind of a snowball effect. So there's not a strong working history.

And the income that is brought in is low compared to, you know, median standards out there in the U.S. Yeah. Tell us about the debt. Tell us about what your lifestyle has looked like. Okay, so our debt combined is around $55,000 total. That's the car payment, that's credit cards, other financial obligations that we have. Like what? Another one of those snowball things, I owe federal restitution for $39,000.

Taxes? What's the plan? That's okay. Everything stops. There's a screeching tire sound here. What is the plan on the $39,000? I'm assuming you're in some type of agreement or payment plan, yes? Yes.

Yes. I have to submit, like, our financial situation once a year to the DOJ and they review it and then tell me what I have to pay monthly. they put a hold on my payments for a year because we were not doing well. Okay. Okay, so you got to hurt. So at least we have something work in there. Okay. Going back to your initial fears, yeah, the best thing for you is going to be to learn as

much information as you can and you call the right place to get that. Yeah. My fear for you going forward if you don't choose to change and learn more about is debt, okay? because it doesn't matter how much money you make, you can't out-earn financial illiteracy and you can't out-earn stupid choices with money, right? And you can't, you know, settlement out of it. None of that will work. You'll blow through it.

So the biggest thing that I want to get you connected with is before we get off the phone, I'm going to send you some resources and I want you to just full force go into them. I'm going to send you the total money makeover. We're going to get you hooked up with every dollar and inside of every dollar. There's a lot of teaching materials, but I want you to go old school. going to give you Financial Peace University because that's really, that's like the intensive version. And I want you to do that. Yeah. I watched Financial Peace University when I was 20. So that's why I was familiar with the baby stuff and everything. Good. Then I want you to go back

and refresh it because even the best of the best of us need to go back and get a refresher on that. So what's going to happen? When this money comes in, absolutely, you're going to take it and you're going to pay off the restitution. You're going to pay off the credit cards. You're going to pay off the car. But the precursor to the baby steps working is twofold. And these are the things that you've got to lock in. And if you don't lock them in, nothing I tell you is going to work. Okay? So here we go.

Number one, you have got to decide today. I don't borrow money. You have to stop borrowing money for any reason. I just don't borrow money. Because what will happen is there'll be something that you want. You'll go, well, I can put a lot down. And you'll just kind of creep over that line. So you've got to decide, I don't borrow money anymore.

That is going to keep your income yours and it's going to keep the risk off your back and it's going to keep you from sliding back into those behaviors that you're afraid you're going to slide back into. So you've just got to put a hard boundary there. Boundaries are good. Okay. That's one thing one. Thing too is you've got to become a budgeter today. Okay.

So just for some context, like we budget everything. We budget everything. We don't buy extravagantly. Like, the debt that we have on our credit cards is for necessities that we could not cover. Okay. Can I jump in? Can I jump in? Jennifer, I know you're hurting.

And Jade's right what she said, but can I tell you something? The reason you guys are hurting is because you don't have enough income. Yeah. And I absolutely believe that you believe that everything you put on that credit card was a necessity. But I have a hard time agreeing with your classification of it. What is a necessity is, is you and your husband both in the United States of America, in the Minneapolis area, should be making combined minimum $60,000. Yeah. You know it and I know it.

I don't say that in any way with a hint of judgment. So please don't feel judgment. But you called us to help you. and I'm telling you, Jade's 100% right, but when she told you the truth, your response was, well, we do budget, we just had all these things happen and we had to go to a credit card. No, what you need to do is be making more income so that when things happen, we can cover it. Okay? Right. So the baby steps get us to that place and baby step three. So I'm going to tell you, I'm going to give it back to Jade, but I wanted to jump in and say, I wouldn't wait until this settlement comes in. Thank you. I was just about to get that. I think you need to go get a job today. I don't care if it's the late shift at the local gas station. I don't care if it's stocking shelves at Walmart. I don't care if it has anything remotely close to dignity attached to it in your mind

because good, hard work is dignified. I think you guys got to change your life and take some ownership of this situation and go, we're no longer going to get in a situation like that because we do not how to budget, but your problem is not budgeting. Your problem is you don't have anything to budget. Yeah, and I want to take that a step. forward and tell you the, I'll tell you my why behind it, I'm sure Ken has one, I don't want you to think the only way you win is by coincidence. Yeah. I love that. I don't want you to think that

the only way you get ahead is something happenstance takes place and thank goodness, right? I want you to have the confidence to know that you can get out there to quote Dave Ramsey, you can kill something and drag it home, you can go out there and make it happen. And the way things are, life is kind of happening to you. Oh, he went here to do this foundry and he went here to do this foundry and then the accident happened and then the this is that. No, no, no, no, no. You've got to start taking life by the horns and you've got to start saying, okay, I'm the master of my destiny here and I've got control and I would love, love, love for that to take place before a dime of this money rolls in. Okay. You know what I'm saying? But here's the deal. On the settlement,

we're going to tell you to walk the baby steps out. Are you familiar with the baby steps? I am. Okay. So it doesn't matter if it's $250 or $5 million, the baby steps. That's a That's what you do. But you have got to take some ownership now. We're not just going to sit around and wait for the settlement. Because let me tell you about settlements. They have a sneaky way of taking way longer to get paid out than maybe that you were told. And sometimes, Jay, shockingly, they don't end up being the amount that we were told.

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And you also know that you're constantly being confronted with clickbait headlines and all kinds of data on social media and you're going, what's really true? What should I do? What does the market really like? And so we always want to be on top of the latest trends to help you understand. And if we look at median home prices, they stayed steady last month, just under $440,000. the number of homes sales, excuse me,

homes for sale hit a million for the third month in a row. And listen, there's a gluttony of homes out right now and so buyers have more options and more negotiating power. You flip that. That means sellers, well, they're facing a much stiffer market

and they may have to come off the price. To learn more about the housing market trends and if you want to get some free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, you can always go to ramsysolutions.com slash market. that's ramsysolutions.com slash market the link is in the show notes if you're on podcast or you too Josh is up next in Phoenix Josh how can we help

hey guys can you hear me okay yes loud and clear hey thanks so much um you guys help my wife and I get out of a hundred thousand dollars worth of debt uh we called last year we were in baby step two and now we're on five and six wow thanks for calling that yeah yeah jade you told me to his pay off my car and I didn't want to do it at first, but I just did the next day and here we are. Way to go. Good things happen when you listen to Jade. Okay. Just going to tell. Everybody on the listening to the show, you need to listen to Jade. Okay. All right, go ahead, Josh. Jade will do it. I'm telling you. We have two young boys and I'd like to set up a financial

future for them. I set aside right now $250 a month for each of them. It could be more. But right now, it's going into a UTMA account. But I realized that one day they're going to wake up at 18 at that rate with $60,000. And I just hand them the keys. And so I will do my best to make them as financial and literate as possible. Do I put it in a 529? They might not go to school. Do I put it in a mutual fund in my name? And then we can have a conversation. But it's, I want it to be used for school, but I can't tell them how to spend it in a UTMA. So is there something that you recommend at that rate? I, probably will put more than $250 a month for each of them. And I just don't want to give an 18-year-old.

Sure. They're still 18. So just for calling us to what you guys recommend. I agree with you. I shy back from the idea of giving a large sum of money to an 18-year-old, especially when at that point, yeah, they're on their own. The money's now in their name, and you can't really govern it the way you'd like to. I would be partial to throwing it in a $529 account instead, especially at the rate that

you're investing, I don't think that you're going to overfund, certainly not overfund college, but I don't even think you're going to overfund higher ed in general with that type of money. If they want some form of certificate, if they want to do something in the trades, I think that that's a good sum of money. And you've got to remember that it is transferable. So you're, you know, you can transfer this on to like even if you or your wife needed to use this money for furthering education in your fields. It can go on if, that child wanted to then keep that money for their kids. But just know that over time that money can be pulled out and it can transfer to an IRA

at a certain point in time. So it's not like forever lost. It's just allowing that transition to take place. But I don't think you're going to overfund it. And I also think that as time goes on, if you want to pull back that number or if you wanted to split the difference, I think you can get creative and say, okay, I'm going to put half of this in a 529 and I'm going to put half of it in a music. Fund and me and my wife's name and then you have a little bit more control over it, but then you're

getting some of the tax advantages of the 529. Okay. And you don't, what happens, I mean, in the scenario where both of them actually don't go to school and use it, you can put it in an IRA? Can you pull it out? Does it get penalized or anything? If you've been to pull that sum of money out? So at any point, you can pull the money out. If you pull it out for non-education purposes, you are going to be penalized. It's a 10% penalty. So just know that. But it does roll over over time. I can check that for you.

Keep him busy. I'm going to check when it rolls over. Yeah. Well, what I would say, Josh, is she's going to pull that over for it. But you're in a situation where don't overthink this. You know what I mean? And your kids are how old? They're four and six.

Yeah. So you do. But here's the other thing I was going to tell you, just to be thinking about as you're trying to figure out what's the right amount. Education is changing so rapidly right now in the United States. United States. I can't even imagine what higher education looks like in 12 to 14 years. I'm not kidding you. So I think it's going to be radically different. I don't see the traditional higher red format. That's just me. This is not a hot take for me, but it's a hot take for some people.

But I'm telling you, I'm paying attention to these trends. So, you know, looking at the current cost of tuition and trying to figure out, my point is pick a solid number that's going to get them where they need to be based on maybe where things are today. Don't overthink about how much it's going to cost. Because I think of anything, the cost is going to go down. I think it's going to be decentralized. So at some point we're going to hit a breaking point, and I think we're really darn close.

So that's the part I wanted to give you that I hope is some good context in choosing the amount to invest. Jade, you got what you were looking for? Yeah, there's a lot of different parts to this. So number one, the 529, it needs to have been in existence. for the current beneficiary for at least 15 years. So in the case of your children, that would be the case, right? They've had this money.

They've decided not to go to college. They've held onto it for a while. And then that's going to have to be rolled over from a 529 in a minimum of five years. So there's some nuance there. I think you can dig deeper in that to decide. But I honestly, like I said, I think if you split this out and I think that if you, like I said, do part of it, 529, part of it in a mutual fund, it gives you more control. And I don't know about you, Ken, but you kind of get to know your kids and you kind of get to see what trajectory they're on.

That's my point. It may be trade school. Yeah. You know, if the kid wants to get into technology, I think that's going to look wildly different. You know, so don't stress over this. Be wise and know that you've got a lot of options. Anything remotely related to some type of training or education is going to be able to be used. Yeah, that's right.

So talk to a smart investor. pro about this and make the best plan. Don't, but I would, I guess what I'm getting at is I wouldn't oversafe. No, I wouldn't over save. And like I said, you can check out the Secure 2.0 Act. That's the one that talks about you can move those monies to a Roth IRA. There's a $35,000 lifetime limit, $7,000 annual limit. So just kind of think through that.

Like, what would that look like to move this amount over this amount of time? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Josh. You're a good dad. You're doing great. You know, a broader issue here. I touched on this a minute ago.

I'm better revisit this for our audience. You start looking at the baby steps, okay? And so for people that are going, okay, I'm late 30s, maybe I'm early 40s, and we're just getting into the baby steps. Baby step one, $1,000 for that rainy day. Right. Kind of garden variety emergency. Boom, that's important.

Baby step two, smallest debt, all the way up to the largest debt, momentum, we're going to knock it out. Game changer, super important, right? Baby step three, three to six months of your expenses in the bank. Now we're feeling really good at night when we go to bed. Baby step four, now we're planning for the future, 15% towards retirement. And then some of you're going, I'm so far behind with my kids. Baby step five feels like a really rough emotional confrontation. Yes. All right, I'm just calling it out. Absolutely. Here's what I want to say. don't fall into the trap that your kid has to go to a super expensive school, to a name brand school, or that they have to have a student loan for any amount of professional success

because that is the cultural pressure. And if you take the cultural messaging and pressure and you put it on top of somebody who's going, we're so far behind and we're just trying to get through baby step three, and my kid's going to go to college in two years, I know what that can feel like. You talk a lot about the emotions behind money, and I wanted to call it out. I want to give you the last word on that. I want people to think about there are more ways of your kids to get the training that they need more ways than ever

and more cheap. That's all I want to say. I want to throw it out there. I'm going to tell you right now, setting expectations early and often, my parents told me from a young age, you don't have a college fund. You better be good at sports. You better be good at grades. When you set expectations like that early and often, that is more important than a college fund.

because then you go, okay, I got to get scholarships, I got to have a better GPA, I got to be willing to work, I got to choose a school that is within the right price range to actually make this work because we're not doing student loans. Expectations trumps a college fund any day of the week. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Financial stress does not just damage our bank accounts. It can also take a toll on our relationships and on our mental and emotional health. Money fights are one of the leading sources of conflict for couples. I know this personally. My wife and I have struggled over the years with money conflicts over and over again. Therapy can help even with money.

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When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com slash Ramsey. All right, Caitlin is up next in Shreveport, Louisiana. Caitlin, how can we help? I'm looking for the best way to consolidate my debt and to risk my credit score so in the future I can buy a new vehicle and a new house. Okay. Now, how familiar with our show are you? Are you new to us? Only in the last year and looking at baby steps.

I've completed a couple, but out of order. Okay, tell us. Give us the update. We have over $1,000 in savings. I'm actually edging towards $10,000. that's just because my dad raised me to always save money and make sure you always have at least six months' worth of your bills to be covered. Okay.

And then I also have the 15% that I put back monthly into retirement. Okay. Is that through a 401K? 401K and an IRA. Okay. Anything else? That's pretty much it. And what about the debt?

Because you mentioned consolidating your debt? Yes. So whenever I turned 18 and I went to college, I found out that my birth mom had used my information on a house loan, a vehicle loan, and two credit cards. Oh, Lordy. So I have the two credit cards that are on my collections, which is really the main thing that has affected my credit the most. Not the mortgage? No, because thankfully I found out after having the conversation with my dad that my dad ended up paying for the house. And somehow my name was just attached to it for the first three-ish years of my life. Like, I still get unclaimed property tax from the state of Louisiana for that house.

But it's nowhere on your report anymore? No, not at all. And the car? Not at all. Okay, so it's just these credit cards. How much is it? It's right at 1,500. And then my total debt is only 3,000 because the other 1,500 is,

medical debt, but I've paid off the other 80% of my medical debt just because of my health issue. How much was it to begin with? I've done really well as far as paying off my debt. So it was $8,000 to begin with? The medical debt? I'm closer to like 10 to 12. Here's what I don't understand.

How is it that you're being held liable if it's been proven that your birth mother used your name to fraudulently take out credit card debt? that's what I don't understand either. Have you talked to the credit? Well, first of all, have you proven this? Is there some type of legal judgment and ruling that it's been acknowledged by somebody in authority that your birth mother did this? No. I just got her to admit to it.

Did you get it recorded? No. I really don't have much to do with her anymore. Sure. Well, gee whiz. I mean, my gosh. totally understand. All I'm trying to do is to see if there's a way out for you not to have to pay a nickel of the $1,500, given that you didn't even...

And that's how I actually got the house and stuff like that off of my credit, which it still affected my credit from there, but I'm edging up to like $580 compared to the $3.30 that I started off with. Okay, so let's take a time out and talk about that four a minute because I know that you're familiar with Ramsey, but I think there's a key point of this that you're missing, and I want to talk about that. So over here, we don't really care about credit scores. And the reason that we don't care about credit scores is because credit scores are just a measurement of how you handle and deal with debt. And since we are anti-debt, there's no use for a credit score. Because if you think about it, Caitlin, credit scores, they measure how much debt you have, how

frequently you use your debt, what percentage of your debt you use, how long your debt's been around, what is the mix of debts that you have, right? It's just a, it's just a measurement of debt. And so over here, the whole point is, hey, let's get rid of debt because the borrower is slave to the lender. Let's use our income and budget our income to live within our means and pay cash for the things that we want out of life. And so when that happens and you begin to pay off your debts, when you pay off this $1,500 medical debt, when you pay off this $1,500 credit card or get it expunged, then what's going to happen? And if you decide, hey, I'm just not going to borrow money, your credit score is going to disappear. It takes about six to 12 months for a credit score to

completely disappear. If you look it up, it'll either be zero or it'll be indeterminable. That's what takes place. And when that happens, it's not a bad thing. It's actually a very positive thing. But most people will come back and say, well, wait a second. What does that mean, Ken, if I want to get an apartment. What does that mean, Ken, if I want to, you know, buy a mortgage? And so we're here all the time to explain to people. It's actually a wonderful thing when you don't have a credit score because an indeterminable credit score is just as good as a high credit score. It means the same thing. So if you go out to buy a house, the only thing that's different is the method in which they approve you for the mortgage. Instead of doing normal underwriting, they would do what's called manual

underwriting. That's the only difference. And so that's the number one thing that I want you to take away from this conversation is you don't have to spend your time, effort, and energy chasing a credit score because all that's going to do is land you in more debt. And I can tell you've got a good head on your shoulders. Your dad taught you how to be a saver. I can tell you're not a person who goes out and takes out a lot of debt. Your mom screwed you over royally. That's messed up. But I think you have a good head on your shoulders and I think you understand this. And that's, yeah, I agree. It's just the only thing from where I'm from, obviously,

is like everybody's always preach. Like, you can't do anything without a credit score. They're wrong. You can't do anything without a credit score. Yeah, but what if, what if you were hanging out in a crowd that said, it's like everybody around you said it's totally okay to eat tidepods, would you do it? No. You see my point?

Absolutely not. I know it's an extreme example, but you can't say, well, everybody around me. Now, here's the deal. we understand that. And that's why Jade just walked you through very meticulously why we don't think a credit score matters. So now you have to go, okay, and I understand your reaction. You were kind of like, okay, that's all well and good. But everyone in my life's going to go, you need to do that. So let's talk about the next step, Jade, which is how she saves up for a car. I do want to do that. But I want to take that a step further because I want you to go home and

chew on this. The reason that you're like, ah, well, all my friends are eating the tidepots. The reason is because that's what's being advertised. because there's money on the other side of that. Think about that. It makes sense. Companies want you to take out debt. Therefore, it is in their best interest to create a score around that, something that consumers want, something that feels gamified, right? There's no money on the other side of a zero credit score.

There is no financial institution that benefits from you having a zero credit score. Think about that. Therefore, there's not going to be any commercials about it, boo. It's not going to be out there. But it doesn't mean it's not real. Ken and I have nothing to gain from this. No, not at all. So we're sitting here telling you, let me tell you, until I bought my house, I went years without a credit score.

And then when it was time to buy the house, we did manual underwriting. Now I have a mortgage, so I have a credit score. But think through that. And anybody listening, I want you to think about that. Banks are attached to the end of this. Banks want you to borrow money. Banks want to be able to, do you see what I'm saying? So think through that because wherever there is a paper trail, that's where you figure out the origin.

of something. Caitlin, would you like to pay cash for a car if you had the money saved up? How would that feel? Amazing. That's actually the way that I was always raised because my dad never even had a credit score up until I was over the age of 20 and I'm now 27. Right. So this is possible.

So now the question becomes not how do I get my credit score in a place where I can buy a car? Well, if you're not going to finance the car, the credit score doesn't matter. The car I'm driving right now, I bought it from a local dealer. cash money. And I walked in literally with cash. And guess what they never asked me for? I think that my dad did with my car. They never said to me, well, Mr. Coleman, what is your credit score? Because the minute I said, I'm paying cash, and I have it in a little briefcase here, and I got an envelope, but I'm literally what I'm offering you with this car is this amount of money. The guy, first of all, was stunned, and it took him a second to make sure you heard me correctly.

And then he went, all right, sir. Yes. There was no credit score conversation. It's fast. So, Caitlin, I just, we're trying to reset your, um, true north. Yeah, you know what I'm thinking? It's like we're pulling you out of the matrix. You know, the matrix says, I got to plug in to debt to be able to live.

We're saying you don't. And so what do you want? A $12,000 car? $14,000 car. Would an $8,000 car do what it needs to do for you right now? Boom. We set a target. We save up the money.

and we go do it. Same thing with a house. What's the right down payment? And by the way, when you do that, you're setting yourself up to be wealthy for life. Think about it. What would it mean if you invested that car payment? If you're looking for a more budget-friendly way to save on medical costs and stay true to your values, Christian health care ministries is a great option to think about. CHM is not health insurance. It's a health cost-sharing ministry, a biblical, community-based way for Christians to share each other's medical bills. That means no enrollment deadlines, and you can choose any doctor or hospital you want. That kind of freedom is big, especially if you're self-employed between jobs, or you just need something that fits your budget better.

CHM has been around for decades, faithfully serving the Christian community. And many members save hundreds of dollars a month compared to traditional health insurance. And that margin gives you breathing room when you're working the baby steps and trying to steward your money well. And right now, CHM's offering new members a 50% credit towards their first month of membership. Get started at CHMinistries.org slash budgets and use promo code Ramsey. That's CHMinstries.org slash budget and promo code Ramsey. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Ken Coleman.

Jade Warshaw is alongside. We're really happy to have you with us here. We're here to help you, help you win with your money in your work and in your relationships. The phone number to jump in is AAA 825-5-2-2-25. Triple-8-8-25-5-2-25. We started out with Joelle, who joins us in Wichita, Kansas. Joelle, how can we help?

Hi. How are you guys today? We're doing well. How are you? Oh, I've been better. Oh, what's going on today? Okay, so I am in babysat three. I thought I was finished, but I think I'm going to be starting. My house flooded.

So I have a crawl space and my main waterline burst under my house. Oh, no. And it's cost, so far I'm at over $40,000 worth of damage. Oh, man. Yeah, and I have $12,000 in my emergency fund, but not enough to cover all of these damages. And this is, you don't have insurance? Well, I do, but they're arguing on whether or not they're going to pay because my house is old, so the pipes are old. So I'm just trying to figure out if insurance doesn't cover what is your guys' advice on where to go next for all of these bills.

Has the work already been done? Some of it, yeah, had to be done immediately. The plumbing had to be done. the restoration company had to come and start getting the water out, the humidity out, dry it out, to try to get, you know, to prevent it from getting ruining the sub floor and the beans and all of that good stuff. What is the specific communication been with your homeowners insurance on this? I mean, I'm sure someone's giving you the runaround on the phone, but have they been able to cite to you some type of specific line in the homeowner's policy? that says they don't have to pay?

I'm wondering if they're just trying to bully you and manipulate you versus have they proven to you that they don't have to pay. Well, so the most recent communication has been that they don't want to talk with me anymore. They want to talk to the plumber. And so I let him know and he was going to do his best, but the pipes are old. And I haven't. I mean, my house was almost 100 years old. Yeah, they're going to want to know if this was a problem.

that has been escalating over time that has never been dealt with, or if it really was a sudden, kind of like catastrophic event, or whether this was a slow leak over time? Yeah, and according, I went to, like, my local, where the, my, I pay my water bill or a local city place, and it definitely was a catastrophic event. So I am going to fight it. Yeah. But while I'm fighting it, if I have, like, when these bills come up, because I already had the H-FAC issues. there. The bill, the estimate for the issues is 30,000 because the return air vent is under my house and it was full of water. The H-FAC system outside was full of water and stuff is now short-circuiting and everything is still wet in there. I don't, it's just been a mess.

Read it back to me. And I have another guy. So the actual water damage from in the interior, like once they dry it out, obviously, There's cosmetic things that you're going to want to fix, like flooring and walls and all that stuff, drywall. But then there's the actual technical damage to the H-FAC. That's $30,000. How much is the to fix the inside of the house minus the H-FAC? Nothing. There's no damage in the house. Oh.

It's all under. It's all under. So nothing touched your living space. No, that's good. Because I caught it fast enough. Good for you. Okay. You know, I don't know what Jay's going to say about this, but I come a day.

this, so I'm going to go what I think is probably extreme and go ahead. I want your take. Joelle, if I'm in your shoes, I'm getting an affidavit, you know, a statement from the local water company where they say this was a catastrophic event. I'm getting that like instantly. I am calling the plumber and all these other people saying, I need you guys to go on the record here as to how you see this thing going down and what was going on. And I appreciate the fact that the insurance company wants to talk to your plumber, and I think that's great. But you never lose sight of it.

In fact, when the plumber calls, the plumber has you on the line. Yeah. Okay. Because I want that insurance company to know that Joel is not going into the night quietly. Because Joel's been paying her premiums on time. Because you said she had to to be insured. And now when she has an actual catastrophic event, you jerks are trying to manipulate her. So they need to know that Joelle's not going quietly. And they need to know that you would be happy to go to counsel and get counsel.

And you need to say enough things and ask for enough things where they realize Joelle is taking care of business. What provision? Show me the line in my policy that you are citing when you're questioning whether or not you guys are supposed to pay for this after I pay my deductible. And I just would be hypervigilant because once they realize that Joelle is willing to go all the way on principle, because she's not going to be messed with, I think it changes things. But I'm going to stop there because I do value Jade's wisdom on this. That's what I would do. Yes. I'm with Ken. I would 100% fight this, but I'm here

to help you deal with worst case scenarios. So I want to talk about what is your your income right now and what's what's your monthly margin look like um so like my yearly income tell me what you make a month uh probably 5,000 okay and of that 5,000 you told me you have 12,000 saved how much margin do you have every single month? I would say two okay so what my goal would be let's pretend you're on the hook for some if not all of this money and so So you're looking, oh, man, I got to shell out $30,000. You've got 12. So we got to come up with another $17,000 or $18,000 very quickly.

So my first thing that I would do is I'd be finding, I'd be looking for ways that I can cut back to where I can start to save up as much money as possible. I'm looking around. Is there anything I can offload to pick up a, you know, however much money is possible. Maybe it's $2,000. Maybe it's $800, right? So that's kind of just a practical way of looking. But what I'm also going to do is I'm going to get an HVAT guy out there and I'm going to

tell him the situation. And I'm going to say, tell me, put yourself in my shoes, I don't have $30,000. How can we phase this thing so that we're doing this in small chunks so I can pay you? Is it first we're going to dry everything out? Is there a way that we can do when we're setting up the return air? Can we do priority zones first? Like, you know, the master bedroom, that one's first and then maybe the kitchen. And is there a way that we can phase this thing out so I can pay and so that we can do things that are most important first, you know,

And that's what I'd be asking because everything happens in phases. That's right. That's right. Listen, these contractors that you're working with, they know your situation. And they've seen it a million times, I'm sure. And so adding to Jade's worst case scenario, worst case scenario, you look at them, you go, look, I don't do debt. So I'm not going to put this on a credit card. But if you can work out a cash payment plan, I will do installments.

And you treat this like you've had to go back into the baby steps. And that's what you do. But you're not actually borrowing. You're just going to go, guys, I'm going to pay this, but I'm going to pay you as I can. And I'm going to take that $2,000 in margin or where I can say, and I'm going to just, I'm going to pay you guys off. And that way you sleep at night. And that's what I want you to hear is that you don't need to go into debt to pay this stuff off. You just don't.

Okay. All right? That was what I was worried about. No, you're okay. And that's your choice. But fight, fight, fight, fight. Deductable only is our goal here. When you've worked hard to buy a car the right way, you paid cash.

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So if you want real peace of mind with the car you worked hard to own, go to CBAC.com slash Ramsey. Use the promo code Ramsey, and you'll save 10% off your visit, up to $250. $Cbac.com slash Ramsey. See store for details. All right, let's go to Beth in Rochester, New York. Beth, how can we help today? Good morning.

Our good afternoon. We have been following the Dave Ramsey plan. My husband and I for about a year now. We have baby steps number one and partial of number three laid out. We were about $40,000 in debt, not including our remainder of our $200,000 mortgage. And so we're probably sitting at around $21,000 in a credit card debt that's mostly been occurred for myself covering weddings, baby showers, and other things like that. I have about $400,000 sitting in my 401K. And I wanted some advice on whether it makes sense to pull out a loan out of there to pay back myself versus paying these high interest.

I think the credit card, it has like a 28% interest fee on it, just to get that out of the way to plug away. at the remaining, you know, getting out of debt. Well, didn't I hear you say that you had a partial of Baby Step 3 completed? And I'll put that in quotes. Yeah. So how much money is there? So we're down to one vehicle now, and we have about $6,000 in there. The tricky part of this conversation is my husband doesn't agree with credit cards at all.

And we have two children where I've kind of supported, again, helping support weddings and baby showers across the past two years. and I've successfully paid off 20,000 of it alone, and I probably could be out of debt with the other 20,000 by October of this year. We roughly make about $2.30 a year combined, but he's not willing to contribute to the debt because he didn't create that portion. Why doesn't he like credit cards? Why is he against them? For the situation we're in now of, you know,

it's an easy fix to pay for something that, you don't think you'd pay something up front and then not worry about how to pay for it later. Sure. Okay. I want to, there's many ways that this can be attacked and there's many things that I'm hearing going on. I think that I'm going to start with the 401K and I'm going to work my way backwards. So I would not borrow this money from the 401K. The reason for that is you're just putting yourself at risk.

Obviously, if you borrow this money from your 401k, now it's attached to your work. So if you choose to leave your job at any point, that money is going to become due immediately. And you'll have a calendar year in most cases to pay that money back. And if for some reason you're not able to pay that money back, then it becomes viewed as an early distribution. And so you're taxed on it at your income tax level, but then you're also paying a 10% penalty. And it's just not worth it to unplug your retirement for this purpose. So that is the reason why that's off the table. So let's check that off the list.

Ken, I want you to. lean in on this because what I'm hearing, Beth, is if my spouse says something that they disagree with and they're saying, hey, I really don't want to do this. I really don't feel good about this. My first initial point is not, okay, then I'll just go over here and do it on the side anyway. Correct. Yeah, I felt the same thing, Beth, this is not a win. This is not a win financially, right? It's not a good move. Yeah. For all the reasons, Jade's late. out, but it's really a bad move relationally. And your husband has got a real clear principle on this. And the truth of the matter is, we agree with him, right? And so, but what we want here is not about

boo bath, yay, hubs, right? That's not what this is. It's, this is a relationship issue that you need to solve now. It hasn't been solved up to this point. And now you're tempted because you don't have the same principle that he has. He's not tempted. In fact, my guess is your husband's got an an alternate plan? Is that true or false? Yes. What's his plan? Well, ultimately here that we're going to scale back even further than where we are, and that I, you know, whether I find an additional job or whatever, whatever I do,

and I turn all credit cards over to him, which I have, I have until the end of the year, because we make a decent salary to get out of this. No, not decent. You make $230,000. The median is like 80. So you're doing extremely well. Yeah. So Jade's right. You need to trust your husband on this. He's actually got your best interest. You collectively you. The two of you. He's got your best interest at mine. He's right. Don't fall prey to this kind of thinking. This is a mindset and you just got to go, all right. You know what? I'm not where I need to be. I'm going to trust Jade and Ken. I called him today. And I'm really going to trust Jade and Ken. I called him today. And I'm really going to trust. my husband. Yes. And you need to get on the same page with him on these money principles.

And it's going to be a much better journey going forward. And you're not going to get into messes. So as simple as I can say it, just run his plan out. You guys can solve this. You've got the income to be able to solve this. You don't need to take out a 401K loan. You don't need credit cards. You just don't.

And I think that's... And that's exactly what he said. Well, he's right. He's right. I hate to keep telling you that he's right, but he's right. Well, and let's put this into real numbers because if you tell me, oh my gosh, we have, you know, $15,000 a month, $14,000 a month at our disposal. Now my next question comes, okay, what's happening to that money? Because that is most people, I can guarantee you this and I'll try to shut it down, but the folks in the comments right now are like, what's going on?

If I made that much money, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I'm not saying listen to the haters because that's all they're doing is Slipping Haterade. But what I am saying is that is a reasonable amount of money to work with that don't get me wrong. Nobody should be using credit cards, but especially you shouldn't be using credit cards because you've got this wonderful income. So what I'd be wanting to do is sit down and if you guys don't have a budget, my bet is the husband has a spreadsheet somewhere. Oh, he does. Actually, I have it. You have it?

Which is the oddest part. So you might just want to look through it, Beth, and there's probably some things that can be tightened up. There might be some slush fund that needs to be given a clear. definition of what really are we using this money for because, you know, $21,000 of credit card debt. It's a lot. But I just think in the grand scheme of your income, those weddings, those baby showers, those one-off things that you were talking about, there's absolutely no reason that that should not be a line item in the budget, you know, your firstborn's baby shower. Put it on the budget. What are you going to spend? $300. You know, we're funding this and we're funding that.

I think Jade's on to something, Beth. If I could pry a little bit longer, here. What, with the income that you have and your husband's aversion to credit card debt, what is the thing that you're afraid of that is making you use the credit card for these purchases as opposed to cash flowing? I think transparency, right? Letting him know how much I'm actually providing to our grown children is probably one of the biggest things. Because he's a bit of a tight wad. Yes. It's like he, like, you know, he doesn't believe in vacations. you know, he's content if, you know, we don't eat out. Again, we make this income we're sharing one vehicle.

Understood. And these are things where he's comfortable with because he wants to, you know, he wants to. And you're saying, why do we have to be so tight? Yes. Got it. With our income and in the career I have in sales, all my coworkers are traveling the world. And I'm like, well, I think you're right. On that front, I think you're right.

I think both of you, there's a give and take here, Ken. So if I'm understanding you, Beth, thank you for being so honest. because you're an awesome person. Is this a bit of like a rebel, rebel kind of, I'm going to be a rebel and show you. I'm going to put on a credit card so that you could get a dose of reality sparky. Well, since we're being transparent, I'm the primary breadwinner, so 140 of that is my income. So part of me feels like I work really hard. I should have a say of what I'm doing with this money.

But then I, and again, I invest, his job is a little bit different, but he likes the game with a 401K. and I've been investing in mine since I'll be 49. This is a classic nerd spender behavior. Yeah, but this is actually a little bit more than this. You're so tired of him squeaking around the house because he's so tight. You're just like, this is a little bit of a middle finger, isn't it? It kind of is. I know it is.

I just wanted you to say it. You're like, you can't stop me? I'm going to do what I want to do. And Beth, you are such an awesome sport, and I hope you feel that there's no judgment coming from me. But I'm glad you... And I don't want to say that to him, right? No, but you said it to me, which is great. Oh, here we are in debt.

But this is like a therapy session. You said it to me, no judgment coming from me or J. But I wanted you to admit it is the middle finger because I think you're going to have to resolve that. You got to go, okay, that shouldn't be my response. We agree. He needs to loosen up big time. But you can solve this. You don't need the debt.

You don't need the middle finger part of it either. You guys, though, need to get. And no 401K loan. No 401K loan. You're going to hate yourself for that. Don't do it. What you need to do is have a candlelight dinner with Squeaky. And let's get on the same page finally in our marriage.

And let's tell each other how we really feel. All right. You're awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate your advice. Yeah, Beth. You're great. The home is one of the biggest financial decisions you'll ever make.

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it together out of our joint checking account. It really helps us maintain a common vision and a set of goals. And, Jade, we love that because these are real people. giving us feedback on how they're actually using it. And we'd love for you to kick the tires. And you can do that for free today in the app store or Google Play. And again, it is the entire Ramsey playing the baby steps. Even for those of you have just barely heard that phrase, you maybe listen for or watching for just a small amount of time.

It is the plan. And it's baked in there and you've got the coaching access to not just the budget functionality. Jade, I know you're the queen of every dollar. Anything you want to add to that? When you say kick the tie, That was the best thing you could have said. Give it a try. Give it a try. Nothing to be lost. Let's go to Hope now in Washington, D.C. Hope, how can we help? Hi. Thanks guys so much for having me on your show.

Sure. What's going on today? So I just want to get you guys' opinion on what to do. I'm a stay-home mom. I'm just like at a little bit of a loss for path to homeownership. So I'm like, do I need to go back to work? I mean, do I, you know, I don't know, compromise on the 15 years, a year loan, do a 30. I mean, what in the world do I do? Our rent right now is 43% of our income. We have no debt. I mean, one of the things at four.

We're doing pretty solid. We've got to go out of emergency fund. Everything's solid there. We're not, like, necessarily, like, paycheck to paycheck. I mean, we do have $250 a month we put towards our savings. But every time I, like, run the calculator, I'm like, this is going to take 15 years. So it's the income. Sorry, Ken.

You know, that's what I was asking. Go ahead. Yeah, so my husband makes 90. He's hoping to make 120, 130 in the next, you know, a few months or so. But right now he's at 90. What would have to happen for him to jump up to 120, 1.30? Good, different job. Is he looking?

He's been working on, yeah. Okay. Have you started running the numbers? on what the new take home would be if you were to get to that range? Yeah. And this is like, this is the scary part. This is why I'm like, oh, my gosh, you got to talk to you guys. So I ran this through chat, TBT.

I know that's like not the right way to do this. But, you know, the median house in our area for like starter home is $550,000. Like, that's insane. And just chaty BTI like was like use Dave Ramsey, like do the reverse math, like, tell me what we need. And, like, basically, it was, like, came back with, like, we need to make at least $250,000 to be in that under 25% of our income ratio at a 15-year mortgage, you know, and I just 20% down. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, it's going to take forever. I get it. So what we need to do is reframe, right?

Okay. So the question becomes, what is realistic as it relates to drive time, you know? And I don't know if you're actually in D.C. or you're Northern Virginia or Maryland, but I'm a Virginia and I can tell you. Yeah, Northern Virginia is like, in order to go to hell, you have to go through Northern Virginia, you know, on the interstate, you know. So, but I think you start there. What is realistic? Can we change the area that where we live or would that just make life even worse? I mean, it's a good question. I mean, we've really talked about it. The problem is is we have, um, we have. have a, well, not the problem. I guess the blessing here is that we have a really, really, really great church community. I mean, this is like, I've never had such a great community. And so it would be so. Okay. I get it. So I'm going to rapid response to you because Jade's going to get involved here, but I'm going to do some rapid response to see where we are. Okay, because then that frames the plan. All right. I bet you there's something that's a little bit smaller than you would ideally like to have that is less than 500,000, but would still be a house or some type of thing we own, true or false? Yeah, absolutely.

What's that number? What are those? What's the range? Are we now 350? Well, yeah, I mean, so 350 is what I was trying to do, but I'm not kidding. I literally, I told that to my realtor. I said, we wanted to follow the day of the MP plan. I was like, we want to find a 350 house.

Did you say house or did you say we'd be willing to do a townhouse or even a larger apart, like a larger condo? Yeah, I said a larger condo would be good. But, you know, with the HOA's and everything, our realtor literally laughed at us and then fired us. Okay, but hold on a second. I appreciate the response, but I mean, you can go on these real estate sites yourself and look for stuff. Absolutely. So my point is we've got to see what is possible. And right now, a $500,000 house is going to take a while for you. That's the real, real. Yeah. Okay, but so now we need to adjust. Okay. So now it's not like, I'd love to climb this

mountain over here. Let's say I came home and I told my wife Stacy, I've got bitten by the mountain climbing bug. First of all, she would take me the doctor. It would never happen. That's never going to happen. But let's say it did for a moment. Okay. And she goes, okay, what are we talking about? And I said Mount Everest. That's the one I'm going for first. And she goes, okay, I need to know more. And I went down the rabbit hole of what it would take to climb Mount Everest. And I would find out that it would be the emotional equivalent of what you felt when you looked at a $500,000 house. I'm just keeping it real for people out there. Yep.

All right. At which point, wouldn't you tell me, Hope, maybe I should start with, maybe you go to Hawaii and hike Diamondback. You quietly burst their bubble. But wouldn't you say to me, Hope, Ken, you should probably change your expectations. Because Mount Everest is probably a waste down the road, but you could still get the same feeling and the same accomplishment and all the other things. But maybe we should work up to that.

Would you say that to me, Hope, if you were talking to me? Probably. All right. So I think that's what I'm. I'm trying to get out here. What we've got to do is we've got to crawl before we walk. And so we hate rent, but, you know, husband's going to increase income. And I heard you say this is the start of the call.

Yes, you should go to work. Agree. Because if you can bring in 50, 60, and I'm making that up out of thin air, but that changes the game. Now all of a sudden... Well, so here's the tradeoff, right, is that we don't have family in the area. So there's no one that can watch our sons. So we'd have to go get... Not true.

I have to trade off to go do. Not true. Not true. Not true. Can I give you a solution? Yeah. You have an awesome church community. That's what you said.

Yeah. I'll bet you in a short amount of time with that awesome church community, we could find a grandmother who's bored out of her skull and she wants to get away from her husband for six, seven hours a day. And she would love to watch your son and do a little bit of laundry, maybe even some meal prep. And just before you think I'm crazy, Hope, this is what we did when Stacey was working full-time, and we had three kids. We found the sweetest, nicest lady who was still healthy and active, and she loved helping us out

until Stacey and I got home. She helped with the homework. She did some light laundry, and she was thrilled. And she was a fraction of the cost of daycare. How old are your kids, and how many are there? Just the one. I just have, I just don't want to have, you know, lots of kids. And I'm hoping a whole school.

I love, I love Kin's idea because here's the thing. Even if you weren't looking to buy today, if you just called and said, hey, my rent's 43% of my income, I'd go, oh, you got to go back to work. Because it's going to make it impossible, to your point with the $250 margin per month. It's going to make it hard to really do anything long term that you want to save up for. That's going to cost any amount of money, right? Now, let's look at it like just pragmatically here. You said you're in babysat four.

You guys are investing right now? Yeah. Okay. If you're investing 15%, that's got to be close to $1,100 a month that you're putting aside. Am I right or wrong? We are working towards it.

So I think we're at about 7% of his income right now is investing in retirement. Okay, you guys are young. We've got 25 set aside for our house right now. Okay. So what I would do, I would also, for the short term, I would either mix that and say, you know, we're only going to put, you know, 4% and so that we can put more towards this down payment,

or I would completely cut it off. I'd cut that off for up to two to three years while you save for this down payment, but I'm completely with kin. You need to be working. I'd temporarily pause retirement so that you can start saving up for this house, and I would change my expectations. It took Ken, it took Sam and I, 10 years to be able to save up for a house. And let me tell you something. To this day, I never go, oh, the one regret in life is that I had bought my house Eight years earlier, I've never said it, and you'll never hear me say it, because it's simply not true. And now they've got a great house. Our Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y-R-R-R-E-F-E-F-Lones can leave you feeling stuck and overwhelmed,

but Y-R-R-R-E-F-E-Lonesing options with a low fixed rate and a payment based on what you can actually afford. Visit Y-R-R-E-F-Y-F-R-E-F-Y. That's Y-R-E-F-Y-E-E-F-Y. It may not be available in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Vanessa in North Carolina. She says, hey, am I wrong for not helping my sister and her family financially? She's a stay-at-home mom with four kids and a husband that works whenever he feels like it, which is an often. They blow what little money they get as soon as it hits their bank account. I own a home. I have a paid-off car and I have money saved in retirement.

I have already shelled out over $5,000 to help them. Their most recent need is $1,000 to pay their electric bill because they are behind on paying it. Is it okay to say no? Now Ken, we just came from Denver, Colorado, where we had an amazing Ramsey Show Live event. And in the event, you have a wonderful bit that you do, where you bust out the powdered wig. I do. And you... Kelly, you should see that wig. We've done it. It's the giant wig. Think of the colonial judge or the British judge. Just want to paint a picture for people. He's got the gavel and the base for the gavel. And I rule and then I hand it to you and whoever else is with me that day. So if you're driving, if you're on a walk, if you're in the kitchen and this is on

YouTube, if you got it in your AirPods, I want you to imagine Ken Coleman in his beautiful shoulder length powdered George Washington wig. It is beautiful. And Ken, what would I say? I'm going to ask you, is it okay for her to say no to her sister? Yes, it is okay. Not only is it okay, it is what you should do. Absolutely. This problem is not yours, number one. Number two, this is not a problem that you or anyone else can solve. So number three, then you need to just move on. And it's the popular refrain from maybe the most popular Disney movie of all time. Let it go. Let it go. There it is, folks. Absolutely. And here's the thing, you've already shelled out 5,000. So they think that this is a dispensary that they can keep going back to for more.

And that was your bad. And it's okay for you to write that wrong and go over to them and say, you know what, I understand while you're coming to me for this money. I've given you money in the past. That was actually my mistake.

And I've decided that I'm not able to contribute any more. And that's that. Best of luck to you. Yeah, it's tough. And we say that, and I think a lot of people listening watching today that made me feel that

we're just kind of, well, it's easy for you guys to say. Yeah. It's very easy for us to say. Because we have taken so many calls on the other side of this where this has gone on and on and on and on. Yeah. And this creates, by the way, so you think if you don't help out sis that it's going to ruin the relationship. And what I'm telling you is, if you keep helping out sis, it will ruin the relationship.

So the relationship is going to be ruined one way or the other. So let's go ahead and save ourselves a little bit of money. Now, if you really want to be cold-hearted, that's about as cold-hearted as it gets. But since you got me in the stuffy, you know, Judge's robe and the wig and the gavel, I have no emotions on this because we have just, am I right? We have been on the other side of this when this thing doesn't work. Absolutely. And here's the thing.

Like I said, this is all at the hand of their choices. If you had called me up and said, uh, the kid, somebody ended up in the hospital or da, da, da, da, something that was completely out of their control. Yes, my heart softens immediately, especially if you have the money to spare, especially if they have proven to be people who are responsible, right? There are parameters that I think it's okay to step in and give a helping hand, but this is not that scenario. It is not even close, by the way.

No. And I just, Jade, have zero sympathy. I mean zero. And I don't mind being called out on this, but I'm just being real. I have zero sympathy for somebody who works whenever they want. There's just kind of when he wants to. No, that's messed up. As a man, that's not a man.

I'm sorry. Now, if you've crushed it financially and you work when you want to, to, I go, I had a boy. Everybody wants to be on that team. That's different. But this is very different. We can't even pay the electric bill because Homeboy won't get out of the lazy boy and go work. I have zero sympathy. I'm never going to help somebody who won't help themselves. I agree with that. I agree with that. I'm going to take you back to the founding of our country. I'm feeling very, very frisky on this one. Come on. Give us a four score. Here's the deal. John Smith, this is a fact. This isn't just in your fourth grade history book. Okay.

The founding of Jamestown. If you didn't work, in Jamestown, they didn't give you rations. No work, no eat. John Smith had it right. I'm going to borrow it from John. And so, you know, you don't work. What do the kids say you ate?

You just ate and left no crumbs or something. Is that a thing? That's what you just did. You ate and left no crumbs. That's what I thought I was trying to. You set it right. You put him in his place. Yeah, but it's never a good idea

to pat yourself on the back with a comment. But I was just really really... Well, you made a pun out of it, which is even better. Good job, Ken. Don't work, you don't eat. It worked in jes. Jamestown's. It'll work in your house. Chris in Austin, Texas is where we're going next. Chris, how can we help? Hey, so I've got a truck right now. It's pretty sweet truck. Love it, had it for a few years,

but I took out a loan for it. And now I'm on Baby Step 2 right now. And I'm still upside down on it. So my question is, do I sell my truck and pay the stupid tax? Or do I continue to pay it down and refinance it? Interesting. Is this your only debt? But as of right now, there's about $5,000 on top of it from credit cards and personal loans that I took throughout the years trying to pay this debt down. It initially started at about 22, and then I took a consolidation loan and got it all the way up to $35,000, almost $40,000 because I was dumb and wrapped up those credit cards again. But now I paid it down to $2,000 left on the credit cards and $3,000. I was left on the personal loan, and that was over the last year when I started listening to you guys. Got it.

Okay. Okay. Got it. Okay. So, and tell me about the truck. What do you owe on it and what's it worth? So I owe 46 and it's worth about 30. Oh, you're telling me.

Oh, man. Okay. What's your income? So I make about 96 total. Okay. Okay. So, the good news is, you know, you paid 46 for the truck. You make 96. You're kind of like right there at the

halfway point. We always say you shouldn't have more than half your income invested in things with motors, things that are going down in value. You're right on the line. If you wanted to, if you, if you said, Jade, I can have this thing paid off in two years. I love the truck. My income is only going up. I might say, yeah, I like that. But this represents something to me. that I think it represents to you, which is a time in your life where you made not smart decisions. Oh, yeah, there was a good period after I got out of the Navy where I was just broke. So I agree with that. And I think that you might be in need of a fresh start financially. And I think this could represent that. I think when you pay off the last of this credit cards and the last of this personal loans.

And when you clear out this truck, I think it gives you a fresh start. And that sounds really good, right? Yeah. I think it does. If I were in your shoes today, not for mathematical reason so much as a principled reason, I would sell this truck. And I would probably go down to a credit union. Honestly, though, I don't care how you get the loan for this difference. I'd get a loan for the difference and maybe another $5,000 on top of it so that I can have a $20,000 debt instead of a $46,000 debt. And I clear out this truck and I drive like a $5,000 beater until you. you can clear out the remainder of that debt with your $96,000 income and a few side hustles to boot. What do you think about that? Well, I definitely have the capability of doing side hustles. So I don't disagree with that at all. My kind of guy. I agree.

I can't add anything to it. But you've already touched on it, and I want to just acknowledge you and cheer for you. You've already acknowledged that you need to experience this pain. when you use the phrase the stupid text, right, you get it. You're like, I'm going to have to experience some pain to A, get out of this and B, remind myself never again. I've got scars and certain parts of my body. One I've got on my hand, I always refer to. I'm looking at it right now.

I'm touching it. One of the dumbest things I ever did doing yard work. Cut my hands so badly. I had to go to the ER stitches, everything. And it was just a boneheaded. I was moving too fast. And I promise you, Jade, from that day forward, when I'm a little bit of the end, I'm going to doing yard work, I am a lot slower, chilling out.

Yeah, because that was a very painful day. And I think, Chris, this is beautiful. I think it's going to change your life. If you do exactly what Jade does, told you to do, then what's going to happen is you're going to get out of it faster. But more importantly, you've fully experienced the pain because, let's be honest, nobody wants to drive a $5,000 truck. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio alongside Jade Warsha.

I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us today as we take your. money calls, AAA 825-2-2-25 is the phone number. Let's go to Chris in Portland, Ohio. Chris, how can we help today? Wondering, when is it appropriate to bring up finances or debt when dating? I'm divorced and getting back out there and kind of just curious what I was like. That's a good question. And I've got to tell you, my favorite question of the day. And the reason is my favorite question today is I don't think there's a firm answer to this, but I love that Jade's alongside of you, too, because this will be fun. Yeah. Okay, I'm going to take the male perspective,

colored in my philosophy. Okay. All right? Go ahead. Um, I think as a male, if I'm dating someone, when do I bring up money philosophy and money issues? I think I bring it up a couple of dates, so we'll say two dates after I feel like that I want to pursue this lady. Like this is a, this feels like I'm going to invest for the long haul because I think this is going to cash out. So once I've determined that I think there's long term potential, I'm talking marriage, then I think a couple dates later. So there's no rhyme or reason other than I'm a feel guy. I'm all feel. So I'm going, okay, I'm not going to do it right away. but maybe a couple dates later, maybe we're doing a longer date.

Maybe it's a, we spend the day somewhere and it comes out in just natural conversation, not a, you know, we've just finished the spaghetti and the tiramisu's on the way and I go, all right, I'd like to talk about money. Like I don't want it to feel like we've shifted gears and I want it to feel real natural because this is a values conversation. Now, that's what I mean by I'm trying to give the male version with my philosophy. swirled in. That's what I think. So that's, that sounds, I hope that sounds specific because it is to me. But I don't know how long that is into the relationship. But I wouldn't bring up any kind of money

thing until we know that we're interested in a long haul. Yeah. I mean, I think part of it has, I love Ken's response. I, and let me start there. So I like what Ken said. I actually might start immediately, but not in the way that you think, not in a conversational way. I might. I might. you know, because money is touching everything, you know, it affects your daily habits. I might be very intentional with some of my habits showing on the date. So for instance, if I, you know. Okay, this is great. Take me the first day.

First date is. What are you going to show that's not? You know, like let's say we go to the movies, right? And while he's doing the tickets, I say, you know, I'm going to head over here and get some concessions, right? And I start, as I'm coming back with the concessions, I'm folding the cash and putting it back in my... Nice. So it's like, oh. And what is by the, what's the concession item you're getting?

I'm getting the large popcorn because there's free refills and you can have the shareable buckets. So you're going to do the, whether it's the right hand or left hand, you've got the bucket kind of cradled and you got the cash in your fingers that he can see. And I'll be like that. Hey, hold this for a second so I can get myself and then I take it back. I don't mind that. That is subtle. It's a subtle hint. I don't know if most dudes pick up on those kind of, because we're idiots.

Yeah. We don't, guys can't find the mustard. I've been married 28 years. I can't find the mustard in my own refrigerator ever. So I don't know if that works, but I like it. In a conversation, we're talking. What are you going to say? So what do you like to do?

And I throw in, you know, I love taking a vacation. I wasn't able to go with my girlfriends this year because it wasn't on the budget. But next year, right? I just throw in a little, just sprinkle it, little seasoning tin. And tell, okay, let's continue to play this out. What are you looking? for when you drop that? At first, all I want him to do is if he's seeking to learn about me, he's picking that up. He's noticing that, right? Because on the first day, all you're doing

is observing the other person's behavior. So simultaneously, while you're dropping your hints, you're also observing, did he pay with a credit card? Did he, what are the little things he's mentioning? His truck is it brand new? Because if he's driving a brand new truck, you can assume one of the two things. He's either loaded or he's broke. That's great. That's a good. So, You're picking up on these things. And I agree with Ken, I don't think ever early on would I sit down, you know, with my glasses over my nose and it's like, okay, now we have the money talk. It's like talking about kids on the first or second date. My gosh, you're going to scare the crap out of somebody that might be the one.

Now, let's talk about if you have something to hide. Do you have something that is kind of like a bombshell or like, ooh? Oh, do it? No, no. I feel like I'm in a really good place. And so I don't want to get into a serious relationship with someone who, like you said, you know, just took out a loan for a $40,000 new car. Right.

Because that's not, that doesn't match my values. And I don't want to. Yeah. I don't want to. So you're in great shape. You're just saying, hey, I want to start getting out there and dating or I am dating and I kind of want to figure out. Yeah.

Well, I got to tell you, I really, really, this will come as a big shot. to the audience. I love my own advice here. I just, I think, I think you get to pick, you know, the time frame. I just wouldn't scare them off, but I, but I don't think you have to wait, you know, months to talk about it, but I, I like your combo. I like how you came in on, I like, I like jade's like, like, she feels like a, like a ninja over here. A little detective. She's kind of like sneaking around, a little throwing star here, a little throwing star here. Yep. Yeah. So I don't know, Chris. That's our, that's, uh. Now, Have you had a bad track record with guys? Is that what this is about?

No, so I, this is me just getting back into it after, you know, being married for over 10 years. And this is my first relationship since, or, you know, since college. Absolutely. So this is, the whole dating scene is very nice. What was it like? I have two young children. Yeah. It's two young children, and so I want to.

Yeah. Your wives. I'm curious. What was the money, what was the money situation like in your first marriage? I mean, it was joint and everything. He struggled to keep a job, honestly. And I'm nearly debt-free now. I have, you know, basically $1,500 that I owe my parents on a car that I bought from them,

and that's all I have. Good for you. So that's a couple months. Awesome. So, yeah, I'm hopeful for my future and I want a partner who values the same thing. Yeah, we are too. And I think you're going to find that. I think that you've got to, like we said, you do your detective work, but you also hold open the chance for people to change.

Yes, I agree. You know, because, and it's not to say that you get into a relationship to change someone. and I don't want you to hear that. But what I do want you to hear is, as you do start discussing these different philosophies on money, I love, and Ken's the first to say this, I love the idea of asking questions and just listening. Instead of you being the first to say,

well, here's my views on debt, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Just ask questions. And when the time pops up, you know, maybe he does go to pay with his American Express and you say, you know, we've been on a couple dinner dates. I noticed, like, you got that American Express, huh? And just like, bring it up and ask him. So what's your philosophy on that?

I've never had a credit card and just say it in such a lightweight, no judgment, just literally conversation. I love that. You know what? I just got one, Chris. This is kind of a fun one. You can use us. Do the old kind of podcast you listen to. That's very normal now. Let him go first, right? And by the way, this is a twofer on this one. You get two tests on this one. Hey, what kind of podcast you listen to? And if he tells you, and then he doesn't ask you what you listen to, what's going on? Narcissusus. Hello. But if he does ask you, you tell him and you see how that goes. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here.

Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com. All right, let's go to Jessica, who joins us now from Washington, D.C. Jessica, how can we help? Hi. I want to, I have a question about paying down my debts. My husband's not on board, and he wants to make minimum payments, and I wanted to pay it off with my

save, we don't mind me. Okay. How much money saved? Jessica, if you don't mind, because you speak a little louder, I know this may be nerve-wracking and all that, but I want to make sure we and the audience can hear you. So go ahead to answer Jay's question for her.

I have about $45,000. You have $45,000 saved, and you want to pay off the debt, and the husband's like, no, let's keep that in a chunk and just pay minimum payments. Am I understanding that? Yeah. And he didn't have access to that money because I wanted to keep it.

Do you have separate accounts? We don't, but I contribute some of my income and go to the common account. And then I have some money that I'm just putting away. Where is the $45,000? Is it in a savings account? Yes. How much is your total debt? I have around 30,000 plus 45, so it is about 58 plus 15K from my mom.

Okay. Sweetheart, you've got to speak up, Jessica. I am struggling. I know our audience is as well. I'm sorry. It's okay. And I know you're probably nervous. It's just that we want to help you.

We just don't understand you. So your total debt, is this you and your husband? The stuff is in both of your names? Is it a mix? It's between our names. And it's the total $68,000? Is that what I heard? Yes, and also $25K student loan from his side.

So $25K plus the $68? Yes. Okay. Okay. So that's 83. I want to make sure we're completely on the same face. You've got $83,000 total would take care of all of your debt. Yours, his, everybody, correct? Yes.

And you have $45,000 in a savings account that he knows about or doesn't know about? He knows? I have a saving account if he doesn't know the number. Are you concerned about what will happen? What are you more concerned about, him finding out that you have the 45 or, you? you going to bat on this idea of paying off the debt? So I don't mind him having access to it, but I just don't trust him when it comes to spending. So I feel like if he's got access to everything, we would make bad financial decisions and we don't have anything to save it.

Okay. That's the biggest, that is the biggest issue in the room right now. The debt is a big deal, but the biggest issue in the room is if you tell me, I don't trust my spouse to know about money, because they're just going to spend it. That's the thing I want to tackle first, because if you can't tackle that, no plan in the world is going to help you pay off debt or save money or build wealth, right? Would you agree with that?

Yeah, I agree. Because you won't be able to work together. So put Ken and I in the room and tell us what would happen if tonight you sit down and you say, there's something I want to share with you, but I'm just being 100% honest with you. When I consider sharing it with you,

I'm afraid because I don't know if you'll be able to handle it. And it's brought up bigger issues and the trust that I have for you and the lack of trust that I have for you. And you start to kind of run this thing out. What's his response going to be? Is he going to be able to have a conversation like an emotionally mature adult or is this going to turn into something crazy? We will have nice conversations.

I've tried it multiple times. But the problem is when it comes to implementing the plans, we don't do anything about it. I'm not talking about implementing the plan. I'm talking about what you said when you said, I don't trust him to know about this money. Yeah. Would he go in and take it? He wouldn't take it. He wouldn't force me to.

So he's actually a nice guy. This isn't like a... He's a good guy. So this is actually good news. This would have been far more complex if you were worried. about anything other than just a normal conversation. Do you handle the finances for your entire household? Do you handle it?

So I don't even think we're handling it the way it should be handled. We're just spending money and we don't know what goes in. I understand, but I'm saying who pays the bills? We pay it off our joint accounts. But who actually hits send on the payment? Who goes into the app hits send on the payment? Oh, it's usually me. I have auto pay for most of the bills. And that's what I'm getting at. Here's where I'm going with this, Jessica, and I want Jade to weigh in.

Where I'm going with this, Jade, is if he is not a jerk, and it sounds like he's not, and he's not dishonest, that's good. And they've had pleasant conversations, just nothing's changing. That's right. But he's letting her lead on the administrative part of the finances, and that's what I heard. I still think they have a conversation, but I think if this dude is kind of like hands off, and when she says, hey, I'd like to do this because she's an awesome wife, and she's being transparent, and he's kind of like, that's not how I want to roll, but he's not like fighting her on it. I think it's a meaning to go, this is what I'm going to do.

And I want you to trust me and here's why. And then see what he says. Is that too strong? No, I don't. I'll be honest with you. I'll be straight up. What I'm hearing is just some immaturity on his point. I don't think that, like to Ken's point, I don't think he's a bad guy.

I think he's a little immature when it comes to money. I think even the way you guys have the money set up where it's like there's a joint account, but we also have our personal accounts over here because he could have money to the side that you don't know anything about, right? And so I think the conversation needs to be in line with this. I think we need more transparency because I think it's breeding mistrust and I don't like that. I'm starting to feel it. I don't know if you're feeling it too.

But I don't think that we can get on the same page with our numbers until we decide that we trust each other fully with our finances. I think that's topic number one. And then I think topic number two is you expressing how holding on to debt makes you feel. Because if we go straight to the numbers, I don't think it's going to get through because he's clearly not a numbers guy. But if you can get to the heart or the emotion of the matter, that might help it. in and then if you can seek to learn a little bit about why where he stands on this, like why does the debt not bother you? Why have you distance yourself from the money? Because the more you know, that's power and the, right? That's knowledge is power.

And I think that's wise, Jessica. That's great advice because here's what I think. I think you can influence him. I think so too. To come to your page because it doesn't sound in any way like this is something that can't be solved. We've taken calls before where the husband is just like, almost abusive on something, you know, verbally or certainly financially. And I think in this case, I love Jade's advice. I think he just has one mindset on it. You've got to start talking about it. And I think you got to kind of own it. He does tell me what the mindset is. He just doesn't want to give out money to each other have it saved and then. Well, but here's a problem. It's a comfort thing for him to have that money. Well, yes. But Jessica, here's what you have to help me understand.

We're 68,000. No, it's more than 68. 83, it's $83,000. of our so-called money has got to go out. We are completely underneath of it. And I don't like the way it makes me feel. And here's how this goes if we don't pay it off. Here's how this goes if we just pay minimum payments forever. Oh, you're in forever. I think he has to be confronted with that.

And then all of a sudden he goes, oh. But, I mean, you've got to lead him on this. Unfortunately, he's not leading, so you have to lead him. Mm-hmm. And it is a math problem. at the end of the day, like I said, I don't think he's a numbers guy. But once you do tell him about this money you have saved, because I think no matter what, you do have to tell him that you have this money saved, then it is a math problem. You say, hey, you might, you may think we have

some amount of money that we don't or some amount of debt, but the truth is we have $83,000 of debt. And I've got $45,000 saved that you didn't know about. And even if we paid every dime toward that debt, we'd still owe $38,000. We're underwater and we're sinking. and I'm concerned. And it's time for you to be the man that I think you are, because I need help with this and I need your support, and I don't want to feel like I'm doing this alone. When people hear my story of paying off debt,

they say things like, dang, that must have been so hard. I can never do that. And I tell them, sure you can. It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it, never having the long-term gain,

just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it, like our every dollar budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation. And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So make the choice today.

short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the every-dollar app and start for free today. All right, Jade, I know you care about insurance. Oh my gosh. My favorite. You know, we just had this big ice apocalypse, or what do you call it, ice-pocalypse in the national area a few months ago?

I lost trees, a bunch of my neighbors lost trees, and we were all talking. Yeah. In the street, looking at the carnage about insurance. That's just something that's recently been on my right. radar. Yep, that's right. We all get it. We want to be covered. And for you, some of you are probably overcovered. In other words, maybe we can find a couple hundred bucks that goes towards the baby steps. Some of you are undercover and it could derail you for a season on the train to the baby steps,

right, or through them. And so we have the Ramsey Solutions coverage checkup. This is free. and it just allows you to plug in some numbers quickly, gives you a nice report that tells you you're either overcovered or undercovered and gives you an action plan. You can get that at ramsysolutions.com slash checkup. That's ramsysolutions.com slash checkup. Let's go to Megan, who joins us in Edmonton, Alberta. Megan, how can we help today? Hi.

I have a very odd question. Basically, am I wrong for wanting to kick up? out a family member out of a house for my own benefit. And I know how that sounds. I mean, we need to know more. What can you tell us? I'm going to try and make this really streamlined. It's a very complicated situation. So my dad died like 15 years ago and my mother recently passed away. And she has a rental property. Okay. My cousins live in the rental property. It's just it's just her and her husband.

and they were basically talking about how they were not going to stay there, they wanted to leave. And that was all fine with us because the property is owned now after inheriting it. It's an owned now by me and my two sisters. Okay. My two sisters don't want anything to do with the house. So they want me to buy them out, which is fine because our house currently, me and my husband, our house currently is too small for our friends. family. So we were actually going to move into the rental property because it's bigger and can

accommodate us. Okay. So we were like, no problem. We'll buy you out. How much would that cost? About $350,000. Okay. Keep going. So we were going to rent out our current house because we only owe $50,000 on our current house. And we could rent it up and down. It's a two, like, it's sweeted. So we could rent it for two units. Okay. And then we would have no mortgage payment. like the renters would pay the 350, technically 400, I guess, if we paid off this house, if that makes sense. Okay. I'm with you.

So where's the hang-up? Where's the bottleneck? The hang-up is my cousin doesn't want to leave yet. Are they living rent-free or are they paying rent? They are not paying rent. They are paying the cost of ownership of the property, so like the property taxes and utilities or whatever. No wonder they don't want to move out. I know, I know, but here's the thing.

It's a really long story, but short, long story short, they had an agreement with my mother. Like, I don't know if there was some, like, my mother owed them something or whatever, but they have basically like a five-year lease where they don't have to pay anything except the upkeep of the house. How long has it been? Of the five years. Two years. So technically, they could stay for three more years. Now, the problem is, we can find, like, in my life.

Fine. Like me and my sisters, yes. So me and my sisters, we like agreed that they, as long as it's not a cost to any of us, that the cousins can stay. That's fine. But the problem for me is our house is too small. It's too small. And so my husband and I want to buy another house. We want to move. But the problem is if we go and we buy a house, then let's say tomorrow, the cousin, we buy a house. The cousin say, okay. just kidding, we're going to leave now. I see the problem. Now I won't qualify to pay out my sisters. Do you know what I mean? So I'm like, do I go buy a house? What's on fire? What's on fire that you need to, like, that I know your house is not big enough, but why is that?

Did you just have babies? What happened that suddenly I have to move now? I have one baby and I have another one on the way and we have a two-bedroom house. Okay. So I'm going to say something. radical here. And the radical thing is the kids share a room. And you do that for three years. It's like the rooms are like, I'm in a very small house. How many square foot? Like 750. Okay. Yes, you are correct. That is a small. Here, let me lay out your options because if I understand and if I'm

wrong, stop me, okay, because you did give me a lot of details. The cousins have a lease. And if the shoe were on the other foot, you would want your lease to be honored. And it's in writing. I don't have a problem. I don't have a problem with an honor and a lease. What I have a problem with is the fact that they're so like, I'm going to move tomorrow. Oh, no, I'm not. Well, I don't know if I'm going to stay or if I'm going to go.

Well, they can do that for the next three years. They get to do that for the next three years because they have a lease. But then that puts us in a really hard spot for the next three years. Well, that's the part where I want to decouple. I think that you need to do. couple your plans from that. Yes. Or you have to just decide, I'm not letting them take me on an emotional roller coaster.

I'm just saying, I don't have access to this house for three years. And I'm just telling myself that. If for some reason it comes open earlier, fine, whatever. But I'm not going to let them take me on an emotional roller coaster. I do think, now this is, like I said, it's groundbreaking. But I do actually think that you would be okay in this small house with maximum three-year, you know, maximum. the maximum age for your newborn is going to be three years old and that they share a room for a while.

Because the other option, which I don't think that you would like, is to buy something else. Because you do know that this other house is on a horizon. And what this reminds me of, Ken, is just the old kind of like sacrificing to win mentality. If you really, really want to be in that house, Megan, that rental property that was your mother's, there's probably going to be an element of sacrifice involved to get there because it's going to be a sweet deal once you're in there, right? Yeah, we talk about this a lot. Would it be wrong to, like, offer them my house? Like, you guys are just two people, like, move into my small house and let us have the

full bedroom house, you know? Like... You could offer that, but that's kind of presumptuous. Is that the word? Yeah, I get... What do you think the relational reaction is to that if you were to do that? What do you mean? Well, I'm with...

it feels presumptuous, so how would that go over if you said it that way to them? How would they respond? I don't know. If you say, hey, I don't want your house. I don't want you to be able to do the lease because I'm on a timeline here. So you guys leave your house, come move into my house, pay me rent. I mean, that's... No, no, they don't even have to pay me rent.

I'll honor the same deal. We just need a bigger place. And, like, we don't want to, we just don't want to go. We've been looking at houses and we just don't want to go buy a house and then have it be like, oh, just kidding. Now you'll have to buy your sisters out. And now you can't qualify because you bought another house. Well, here's the thing.

You don't have to do anything because let's go back. You don't have to buy your sisters out. You don't, this is a deal that you've constructed in your mind that is like the perfect solution, right? In your mind, the perfect solution is I buy my sisters out. I kick the cousins out. We get into the house. We do this sooner than later. Right?

Like that's your fairy tale ending. But the truth is you don't have to move into this house. There's other houses out there possibly. The truth is the. timeline is a timeline that you've constructed because you're uncomfortable in the current house. That's just the truth. This is like bare bones truth. I'm not saying it's uncomfortable, by the way. I'm sure it sucks, but I'm just saying that's the truth. And then the truth is you're you're starting to now, because you're getting a little desperate, you're starting to construct a reality

where the cousins would be totally fine moving out of their house, moving into your house, and you're so desperate to the point that now you're like, hey, I won't even charge them rent. I just think we're getting in dangerous territory here. I understand what you're saying But it does draw me Oh, I probably left out A small, probably large detail They own another house

That they could be living in? They own a different house That would have been nice to know about eight minutes ago We're going into a break But either way, either way Either way, you're putting your future And your destiny in the hands of other people And whenever you do that

It is frustrating because they're not going to do You can't control them And they've got a five-year lease Sorry. If you want to grow, get better at communication. Until you figure that out, you're not going to move forward. I've been there. In my new book, Stop Talking, Start Communicating.

I unpack the one thing that unlocked communication for me, the disc assessment. It blew my mind, and it changed how I connect with everyone. And I'll show you how to do the same. This is a game changer. For $3499, you'll get the book and the digital. Disc Assessment. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash store. All right, our scripture of the day is from Psalm 16, verse 11. You make known to me the path of life.

In your presence is fullness of joy. At your right hand, our pleasures forever. And our quote of the day from Jordan Peterson, it's a luxury to pursue what makes you happy. It's a moral obligation to pursue what you find meaningful. That's a good word. I like that. I do like that. All right, let's go to Christine, who joins us in Orlando, Florida.

Christine, how can we help? Thanks for having me on today. I have retired parents in their late 70s. My brother, who's 45, moved in with them at the beginning of the pandemic and hasn't left since. My parents are supporting him. And they're getting older. They're starting to have health issues. And I do not want to be responsible for him after they're gone. But I'm having a hard time reconciling. I guess, you know, moral obligation versus practical obligation. Why would you be responsible for the brother? What type of, is there something wrong that he's requiring support? No, other than he just has never worked. And it's one, yeah, yeah. And it's one of those things where I'm afraid if no one takes care of.

him or supports him, he'll end up homeless and, you know, bad things happen when he's on drugs. He's not. It would be an easier conversation if he was. So I guess my question is, why are you drawing the conclusion that he's totally helpless and will end up on the streets? If he's 40, able-bodied, healthy, that would then just be his personal choice, then, wouldn't it? it you're absolutely right it and it is absolutely his choice it's it's the you know tug of he's my only he's really my only family once my parents are gone um and do you really think that rather than let's let's let's just play this out for a second let's i mean unfortunately let's pretend your your parents they're beamed up they move on let's pretend you've put your foot down and said you know what

you know you can't move in with me bobby and Do you really think Bobby will end up? Do you truly in your heart of hearts think that he will say, okay, tonight I'm sleeping in a box? Just about. The reason he moved in with my parents is because he was sleeping in his car. And my dad didn't want that for him. And you're sure there's nothing else going on with him?

I am sure. There may be some mental health issues there that have never been diagnosed. Okay. That's helpful to know. Yeah. Oh, this is tough because of what you just said there. Yeah, that's different. And it feels like you've got to get a little bit more plugged in on this, right?

Like, I think you have to get hands on and find out to the best of your ability what is going on with him. In other words, if he's just a slacker, for a lack of a better word, my response is different. If there's some legitimate, I got to be careful how I say this, like, if there's some legitimate medical diagnosis that, put him in a position where he literally cannot take care of himself, that's a wholly different conversation. And it doesn't sound like you know. You know, when I, I would suspect, and again, he's never been tested, but my suspicion is that he's somewhere on the autism spectrum. Okay. Interesting. Okay. But I know that there are very intelligent and successful people on the spectrum who, you know, still take care of themselves.

And I don't know why it is that he has taken this route. He made comments years ago to my husband when we were dating, because this was years ago, that, you know, he didn't think he had to work that much because someday my parents would die and he would inherit. But my parents aren't that type of inheritance, you know, if that makes sense. So his concept and relationship with murder, money is completely unrealistic.

Well, I'm going to go back to what I said a minute ago. I don't know that I can give great advice because I don't know much at all about what's going on because you don't know. So I think you've been detached. So I do think that this is the right time for you to dig in. I agree with that. And become completely aware of what's going on. So, you know, you have to assess the situation, at which point that allows you to make a good

decision. I think you're a good person and I think you have common sense. But I mean, you know, are you the only sibling? You are? I did. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's a big heavy weight there. So I would want to know what's really going on. I would want to talk to him, by the way. I'd get, so I would get, I'd do two things. I'd sit down with the parents and have your parents tell you what's going on and ask them what their expectations are. Not because you feel you have to do what they say, but I would just want to read the room. And I'd want to know what mom and dad said. I'd want to be looking for, are they making excuses for him? I think you'll pick up on that pretty quickly.

Have they enabled him? Okay, I'd want to know that. Then I'd want to sit with brother and get his take and go, what's your plan if mom and dad are gone? Like, let's have these conversations so that, and let's do it in a way that tries to get everything out on the table, Jade. Like, let's get all the pieces of the game board out. I'd push for evaluation too. I would. That's a great.

That's a third thing. So there's a checklist of three things. At which point you now have a lot more information than you do today. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think the challenge is, I mean, you're right, these are conversations that have to happen. My family has always been pretty close to the vest. My mom's favorite thing was, you know, we don't air our dirty laundry in public. So it's hard to kind of get them to come out of their shell. But it is reaching the point where something's going to give and it's going to give disastrously or we can be prepared for it. You're right. Yeah, I think Ken is spot on with that checklist of three items. And then from there on, you can really evaluate your options. I don't know that there is a world, because if he's getting evaluated, let's pretend it comes back and there is something there.

Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to try to get into it. But there's a lot of nuance in what you're able to, you know, do and not do and accomplish and not accomplish and what sort of care you might need or what type of therapies you might need. And so that opens a whole other world of possibilities once you get this information. and I think today you're a detective. Right. I agree. So that you can decide what's my role as a steward, you know? So the question becomes, what happens?

Let's fast forward to, because you called, what do you think? Let's assume, and Jade kind of hit you on this, but how would you react if they were again gone? What would you do today knowing what little you know? Yeah. If it were to happen today, I'm afraid. would just shut down, to be honest, with regards to that situation, because it has been so polarizing and emotional within our family. My parents, I know, are frustrated with him living there, but every time they have tried to talk to him about it, he shuts down, and

they don't really get any answers. So it's really hard to navigate, but it's something's got to give. Okay, so what does shut down mean? Meaning that you act like it doesn't exist and he's dead to you kind of a deal, shut down or what? I guess shut down in terms of maybe just, yeah, walking away from the situation, just being overwhelmed, not knowing what to do, how to handle him when he's been supported and enabled his whole life. Yeah, this is why, again, we got to go back to, I think what you would have to do was not shut down. But hopefully you do this now. So if this happens, you're ready.

You know, is he in a situation where he would be a ward of the state or some type of, you know, and that's a little. I mean, it's going to probably pass through Medicaid. Like if they play their cards, right, yeah, there should be something there for him, which is so important to do those first steps. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's what I wanted to know. I wanted to. And so that tells me that.

So the reason I asked that question is because I wanted to know where you. your head is and your heart. And it sounds to me like your head and heart are aligned that you don't think you should help him. And quite frankly, you don't want to. That still may not be an option, right? You may have to on some level. And so I think that's why you're going to have to do this digging that we talked about. And then that'll help you, you know, kind of inform your plan. But gee, is I want you to have a plan if it's anywhere close to have to. Yeah, that's the goal. So I hope that helps.

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Oh, thank you. But listen, don't. That's very helpful. Good. And here's the deal. Don't do anything out of guilt. Do everything out of values.

Big difference. Big difference. Well, folks, remember this. There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's the walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.