The Ramsey Show - You Don't Have to Stay Stuck

Episode Date: July 6, 2026

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broken. Common Sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. So today we're going to do a little walk-down memory lane. For those of you that have been with us for a long time, you'll recognize a lot of these things. And if not, you're about to learn some things you didn't know.

I started this show on a radio station that was in Chapter 11 bankruptcy, and I agreed to work for free. It was called The Money Game, and I told the guy, if we're really bad, you can cut our pay in half. And we were really bad. It sounded like Darrell and his other brother, Daryl, doing a radio show. Dave Ramsey, and this is WWTN. It's about how it sounded. And we started that in January, I'm sorry, June 25th. of 1994. So we're coming up, we'll be coming up on our 40 year here before we know it, or 1992,

I'm sorry, 1992. We'll be coming up on our 40 year here in just a few years. And later on, a company called Gaylord that owned Opryland and still does own Opryland hotels and a bunch of other things. They owned some radio stations at the time here in Nashville, and they bought the radio station out of bankruptcy and agreed to keep us on the air because we had good ratings. And we agreed to continue to work for free, but we owned the show. And we would begin putting it on other radio stations called syndication. And I talked, our first radio station into putting us on the air in addition to Nashville. We had really good ratings in Nashville. And it was an Oak Ridge, Tennessee, small little AM radio over there. I think you could probably hear it maybe one block away from the

radio station, but certainly in the parking lot of the radio station, you could hear it. And then? And then I picked up the phone and called Traveca Nazarene University, which is a local NAS university. And we'd had some team members that come from there that were excellent and said, hey, do you know anybody in the communications department or broadcast department that's looking a young go-getter that might be looking for a job? I'm getting ready to hire our first producer because the producers we'd had up to that point all worked for the radio station. And I needed a new one because now we were officially syndicating. And ended up hiring a young guy at 25 years old named Blake Thompson.

Blake is celebrated yesterday 30 years with Ramsey. Started as our very first producer. And told me about a year and a half ago that he was going to retire at 55 years old on exactly his 30th anniversary here at Ramsey. We've got a thousand team members. We've never had. We've had people retire here many times. We've never had anybody last 30 years.

Blake, your head? Blake's the first one to make it 30 years. And he's an integral part of the show being what it is from those early days. And so we're going to take a couple segments and go down memory lane with Blake. Congratulations on your retirement, my friend. Well, thank you. It's been a wonderful last two weeks, the way you've honored me and celebrated and all the fun things. It didn't hit me officially until yesterday when I was coming off the elevator.

about to head out to have lunch with our president, Dan Ramsey. And the whole team was on the floor clapping me out. And I just lost it. That's when it really hit and goes, this is it. Yeah, for real. Yeah. For real. Well, talk about the, let's go back to that first day.

The professor at the Nazarian University called you. Yeah. So I was in a, I graduated from Treveca in 1993 and proposed to my wife, Tanya, right after we walked the stage, we both graduated. And then life hit. It was just like college was a blast. Dayton Tanya, goofing off, did radio. I thought I'd just keep rolling right into that in life.

But I was married and had a place to live and had to support her. So I got a job setting up these copy sites all over Nashville at these law firms. And I worked my way up. I started managing a bunch of them, but I hated the job. I couldn't stand it. It wasn't a job where I felt. like I look forward to going to, and I didn't feel like my work did anything that I could see did something for someone. Well, you're working with lawyers all day. That's right. Oh, my gosh.

But anyway, I had a group of guys around me that prayed, and one of the guys that led that thing was my professor at Treveca's husband who took guys like me and said, hey, let's support each other and find the right thing for each other and support and pray for each other. And on the worst day of my job by far. First of all, Tanya used to like Friday Blake, but knew on Sunday afternoon Monday Blake was coming because it was just dreaded it. No, he was not as fun. But on the worst day of my job, I think it was on Monday. I get a pager goes off and I finally get to the phone. Two of my people didn't show up. I've been running like crazy. And it's a Treveca number. And I called it and got a hold of my professor, Lena Hage, who's still there. She celebrated 38 years

this year said, Blake, have you heard of Dave Ramsey? And I was like, I don't recall the name. She said, how about the money game? Because that's what's the name of Dave show at the time. And I said, yes, I've seen that advertisement above the urinal, my favorite sports bar I go to. And she goes, listen to me, this is what you've been wanting. This is perfect for you. It's ground floor. His stuff that he teaches, me and my husband, Steve, the guy who's been praying for you. it's changed our life. We're debt-free. It's crazy.

So you can go in there, work with him if he hires you, and you'll see what your work actually does. And this is like 1996. 1990s. Yeah. Yeah. And now our hiring process, you know, you go through different tiers, board and all that, because we want to hire thoroughbreds and not, you know, donkeys.

Back then, it was Dave. And so I met 101 Dave in his office twice. And he sold me on the vision. He told me, though. He said, hey, I'm not going to be able to pay you. what you're getting now because we do everything debt-free, but this thing is taken off and I need someone to come in here, not a board op that's smoking and getting $10 an hour every break and could care less who's on the phone. I need someone to work with me and make this money show

Main Street because money shows Wall Street and, you know, you're scared to listen because you're embarrassed you don't know the answers to the questions. But Dave was already teaching the way FPU at that level where people got it. He just wanted to now, No, he knew that Nashville wasn't the only place the phones were blowing up. This is a problem all over the nation. Yeah. So Blake took a pay cut from 26,000. I offered him 18,000. So he got paid $18,000 a year in 1996. Worked out, though. Oh, gosh, yeah. And you sold me on, yeah, I'm retiring at 55. At 55. But yeah, you sold me on the vision, and it was exactly what I was looking for at the time of of being on the ground floor, working with you and doing that.

But yeah, I don't want you to miss. I started listening naturally, not having a ton of debt, but all the calls. I would screen and run the board. And I was like going home and telling Tanya, this stuff, I think this is a real thing. We should do this. We should actually. And nowadays, we only hire crusaders and people like that. Right, right.

But then it was like, Dave was just getting people who were willing to do the work and come in here and bust it with him. but it got on me quick and Tanya quick, and she was naturally that way anyway. Yes. And I'll tell you, the reason I can go at 55 and go on to the next half of my life to do some other stuff is because what he taught, I started at 25. Yeah. It works. It really works. Yeah, and for those of you, you know, we said this to our team, I guess it was last Monday was the staff meeting. But it is true. When you look back, those of you listening and watching right now, like it would not be this show. where it is without, obviously Dave, but Blake Thompson and Laura Johnson, I'll throw you in.

They were the three at the beginning years, grinding and out, and you two, knowing each other so well and the relationship you had of how to build something like this and it continues to go because of you, Blake. So I'm excited. Well, thank you. We'll keep chatting because there's still some fun, fun memories of the early days. Thanks for having me. Hey, George Camel here. A few years ago, someone stole my identity. And let me tell you, that is not a quick fix. It takes hours on the phone, piles of paperwork, and a whole lot of stress trying to untangle the mess. And even after that, there's this nagging paranoia because your information is already out there. And the truth is, you can do all the right things and still become a victim. That's how common identity theft is.

And that's why I'm glad I had Xander's identity theft protection. When my identity was stolen, their team stepped in right away. They were monitoring by information and caught the issue, and their U.S.-based recovery specialists help handle the calls, the paperwork, the cleanup, so I didn't have to do it all on my own. Zander also includes up to $2 million in stolen funds and expense reimbursement, and with the family plan, your kids are covered for free.

You work too hard to let identity theft steal your time, your money, and your peace of mind. So go to zander.com to enroll today or call 800-356-4282. So we're taking a couple of segments to honor Blake Thompson, our senior producer, here at Ramsey. He was my first producer. We hired him in 1996. He was 25 years old. He's retired yesterday

from Ramsey after 30 years here. And we have gotten to hang out together looking across the glass at each other doing a three-hour show for, gosh, 15, 20 years. Yeah, so and then later on in, I guess it was in 2013 or something like that, we brought James in as a producer, and that was a shock to my system because I'd worked with only one guy on. the air. And James has done a great job stepping in. And then Blake has become, you know, one of our top leaders. And he runs all of Ramsey Networks. So all of the, anything that goes out of here on digital, anything or on radio anything has been under his purview for many years. So all the shows, all the Rachel Cruz show, the Smart Money Happy Hour show, the John Deloney show,

Ken Coleman had a show over here next door for a while. George. George Campbell's YouTube stuff. all the YouTube and all the podcast stuff is all under Blake's heading until yesterday. And now he's unemployed. But now he's retired officially. But back to what Rachel was saying. When you came on board, we had that one station in Nashville, and a week later we plugged in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, and that began the process. Yeah. Fast forward to today, while Blake has been sitting across the glass over those years, we grew the show.

and Laura was screening phones and was the associate producer. We grew the show from that to 640 radio stations. We're the second largest talk radio show in America today, have been for many years. We're in two Radio Hall of Fame, one of Marconi, won all of this. And, of course, we changed the name from the Money Game to the Dave Ramsey show. We were probably about 40 stations or 30 stations, and one of the bigger stations called us and said, you guys are dumb. I mean, Rush Limbaugh doesn't have the political game.

Dr. Laura doesn't have the marriage game. You need to call it the Dave Ramsey show because that's what it is. And then people understood. It really helped our branding at the time. Sure. But I think one of the funniest stories that you told last Monday was about when you guys had to call the stations that you were on, but it had to be long-distance landlines. Yeah. Nowadays, we're on a satellite, the radio part of this.

You know, YouTube and podcasts has grown so big for our brand, but radio is still so important to us. We're on the satellite 24-7. It's just going, so you can just plug in and listen. The radio stations. Back then, we had to buy these little Comracks boxes and put them in the closet at that WTN studio that we would drive 40 miles round trip. Me and him every day for like three years, so we paid cash for our own studio. But when we syndicated, you put that thing in, and it was like dialing a phone. And I had to remember to dial Oak Ridge and hang up to Oak Ridge.

At the end of it. Jackson, Tennessee, still with us. Jackson, Tennessee. They're the oldest on the, currently on the network. That's right. They were the third station. Russellville, Kentucky was the second. Mm-hmm. But as you'll start chipping away back then, which is just so funny to think about. And I remember Blake, I mean, I was eight years old. Yeah. When you started.

Yeah, my first interview, actually the official, when Dave offered me the job, was two face-to-face. And then me and Tanya went to dinner with Dave and Sharon. And in the booth behind me during my interview was a eight-to-face. eight-year-old Rachel Cruz, and a four-year-old Daniel Ramsey, who's our president, and your sister, Denise was probably 10. And she runs the whole foundation. Yeah. And we were there.

That's what makes me feel old. That's when it hits me. Weird. Yes. It's wild. But that's the wonderful part, I feel like, of when you run so closely in business, business and family overlap so much. Your family, Tanya, even your mom, Martha, was part of Martha's place back in the old. old building. If you listen to that, that started everything that you see today if you come to

Ramsey's Lucian's headquarters that all birthed out of Martha's place. The coffee and the cookies. That's right. And she still gets recognized on the street. That's Martha. Yes, yes. She's a rock star. But it is. It's been such a beautiful legacy, Blake, that you've left, not only from this show and all the work that you've put in, all the years, all the Dave Rants, all the who knows what, when lines, I'm sure were hung up on accident. Dave's, you know, I'm I can imagine the stories. Fixing its country accent. He went through that so we could get.

He hired a voice coach from a broadcast. Because we couldn't get above Kentucky. And then when he did it, he was willing to do it. Guess what? We ended up in New York. I had to learn how to say ice instead of ice. I had to learn how to say going instead of going. And, yeah, I had to learn to talk.

They were like, what garage are these guys? What are they? What double wide are these guys broadcasting from? No, but really, no. The legacy that you've left, Blake, here and your family and all. And those of you that know Blake or don't, he's one of the funniest people you will ever make. Yeah. And the cool thing is Dave gave me a book, even back when I was 25 besides his own book, Financial Peace, Half Time by Bob Ruford, about, hey, if you do this

right, you don't have to just, it's 75, but go fish, now in golf, sit around. You can actually go to a second half. Yes. What are you doing? And go through a career of 30 years. And now the second half, I'm doing a bunch of things. I'm helping bring Major League Baseball, the National Stars to Nashville. That's just for fun, but I'm still going to Pakistan freeing slaves. And I'm working with a buddy who sold his business for a lot of money. And he saw the work I've done, even through Dave, because he gives us time off paid to go do that kind of work. Hey, you've been to Africa, you've been to Haiti, all this. We want to give more internationally. We have a lot of money to give. Can I hire you now that you're retired to go give my money away? I leave in two weeks for Africa, so I'm going right

into it. So I'm not sitting around. I have to be doing something. continues on who you are. That's right. It's the same character. It almost never happened because of those Comrex boxes. Oh, that's right. So we played a prank on Blake because he's so easy to mess with. And he came in Monday morning and John was running the radio.

Blake worked for him technically in those days. And John called him into the office and he goes, and I'm sitting there too. And he said, Blake, we got a real problem. You forgot to hang up the phone on Friday on those four comrades boxes. and those are all long-distance lines. And so by the time we found that the long-distance charges are $10,000, well, we didn't have $10,000. He knew that would put us out of business.

What I say first, I said, oh, please don't let me go. I will sell your book door-to-door until it's paid off. And then Dave couldn't keep a straight face. He was gone laughing. I'm not very good at that. I can't play poker and I can't hold a straight face in a practical joke. So I started cracking up because I felt sorry for him. But for a minute there, his stomach went his throat.

it was great. He did hang him up, but we missed with him anyway. Yeah. Actually, you didn't. Somebody else found him and hung them up. Yeah, I forgot what it did. It gave us the reason to do it. But so the other thing I want to make sure we don't drive by is what Rachel was saying before we went into that last break. And that is during the time that we've been on the air, there's been a lot of talk radio people come and go. And they were going to be the next big star. And they let they flame out in two years. They were going to do this and they weren't. They say something stupid on the and lose their career, whatever. And their character just does, you know, they're hard to work with behind the scenes. They go out. Very few people hang around broadcast or of this type for this many years. It's very unusual. And what's even more unusual is that I had the same, the three of us in the booth, the two of them in the booth and me across the glass for almost 20 years before we changed

a thing. And the chemistry that was created by that consistency, the integrity of that consistency and the loyalty, I could look across the glass and look at Blake, and he knew what I was thinking, I knew what he was thinking. I'm talking to a caller and I'm, look at him, and he goes, okay, we've got to get rid of this and this is going sideways. And we could just know what the other one was doing. And the quality of Laura pulling the right calls in, Blake training her, and the comedy bits you used to build out were hilarious. And some of them just about got us in serious trouble, but they were pretty funny. And that chemistry, I'm almost positive, this is correct when I say it, that no other show in America during that 40-year period of time had the same crew the whole time, much less the same host.

That's right. But, I mean, the same crew. And that consistency, I am sure, because I know a lot about business and I know a lot about branding and marketing, I am sure that consistency is why this show is where it is today. It's because of you. So I love you, brother. It's the partnership. I'm proud of you.

I'm proud of you. I'll be the number one fan of this. No, Blake. For the rest of my life. Thank you. We love you. Thank you. We love you so much.

Thanks for the opportunity. Blake Thompson, celebrating 30 years. Y'all give him a round of applause out there. Hey guys, George Camel here. If you run a business, your phone is basically your cash register. And every missed call is money you didn't know you lost. And missed calls, slow replies, customers who moved on before you got back to them, that's not a you problem, that's a system problem.

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an assistant who never asks for a race. So try Quo free, plus get 20% off your first six months at Quo.com slash Ramsey. That's QUO.com slash Ramsey. Always say hello with Quo. Braxton is in Huntsville. Hey, Braxton, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Good afternoon. How are you guys? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Me and my wife are both 26. We just recently started following the baby steps. kind of had a few things out of order to begin with, but I wanted to call and get your guidance and opinion on, I think, our house broke, but we're not struggling, and I want to get your opinion on it. Okay. How much is your house payment? 4,600.

And what's your take-home pay? Take-home pay between me and my wife is $11,000. Okay. And is that, as 401K coming out before you get to that number or health insurance coming out or just taxes? The health insurance is coming out through my life, and then 401K is coming out for both of us, you know, through our employer. And that gets you to $11,000? Yes, sir. Okay, so you would add those back to do our calculation, because our calculation is after tax, take-home pay only, not your investments and not your insurance.

Okay. And so probably taking home in that case at least 13,000, right? I mean, if we looked at just after taxes, does that make sense? Yes, sir. Okay. I'm guessing, but it could be a little off. And so for that purposes, then your payment is, what, 40, 35 percent of your take-home pay. So it's not as bad as it sounded initially, but it's still high. The thing, the reason we tell people to be at 25% Braxton of their take-home pay is it gives you room to save and invest and be generous. When you've got a high house payment as a percentage of your take-home pay, an economist call that house poor. You called it broke, but it's house poor, is the phrase. You're not broke. You're doing great. You make a lot of money.

Congratulations. And the trick is to just make sure, super sure, that as your income, goes up that you guys don't slip into car payments and you don't slip into borrowing money for a trip and you don't, you know, an emergency comes up and you don't borrow money for a new heat and air system. So you've got a good emergency fund in place. You stay on budget. But you just, you've squeezed yourself with a higher house payment is what this means. It's not, in your case, it's not so bad, I would say sell the house. But you're got to be careful. Okay. Do you guys have a lot of consumer debt, did you say? Or you guys are debt-free? We are almost debt-free.

We've done a few things out of order. My wife had some student loans around 19,000. And we had a small, I had a small credit card from when we went to purchase our house. I didn't have enough credit. So I had it to get me started. So I've got, I think, around $3,000 on it, and it's going to be paid off the next paycheck. Good. And then we paid her student loans off. We paid cash out of yet. I paid my truck off. They bought her car and cash. Good. So you'll be free at that point.

And now the trick is, again, to be doing your every dollar budget, and the two of you be very intentional and careful with the margin that you do have because you're squeezed, and when people are squeezed, they end up, well, when the car broke and I had to buy a car, and, you know, and I wanted to go on this trip, I really wanted to go on this trip. And these are the people that call us later, and they got a mess on their hands. You know what I'm saying? Yes, sir. But Braxton, from your numbers, you guys should have around $7,000 after the mortgage is paid.

Is that right? Yes. Okay. Which up until now, recently, when we, you know, buckled down and sort of doing y'all steps in order, we wasn't kind of really tracking that. I was just kind of moving money to the savings here and there as I felt. But now we're actually keeping up with it, and that's a lot. That's real accurate what you just said.

Good. Okay. That's great. Perfect. Okay. And that should be plenty. He's on track. Plenty.

Yeah. Absolutely, for sure, for sure. And your income will continue to go up. Laurie is in St. Louis. Hey, Laurie, how are you? Doing well. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I am 61. My husband 62. We both work. My direct question would be, we had to take out a HELOC within this last year. The amount that we could charge or whatever to that is 30. We did not want to do that.

We just wanted to do the necessary things, which equals right now about 16,000. We pay, obviously, on the interest, it's 7.25, and I always pay some extra. Beside the HELOC, we have a car loan. Approximately 19,000 left. We bought the car used a year ago. That is at 6%. Since those two amounts are fairly close, I have just discovered you and your show. about a month ago, I have already paid off our small amount of credit card debt that we did have.

I told my husband, let's take our cards out of our wallet. We're not going to use them anymore. Good for you. I got the every dollar app last week. I put in all the numbers. I even wrote it on paper just to make sure I got everything in there correct. And we live very simple. We have a small, very small, 900 square foot home, and it's just him and I.

Is the house paid for? No. He just bought the house 10 years ago right before we got married. It's my second marriage. What's your household income? We bring home about 3,600 a month. That is, both of us working. We did make a little bit more, but a few years ago I was diagnosed with lupus and fibromyalgia,

and so it really limits what I can do. However, I do clean for a living now, and so I have some businesses and a couple houses that I take care of and he helps me. He works full-time at a music store, and he also plays to make extra money. So to answer your question, they're both $19,000, which debt goes first. It doesn't matter. They both need to go away. And so just pick one of them and attack it, whichever one, you know, I want to get rid of the highest interest rate or I want to get rid of the highest payment.

I'd probably want to get rid of the highest payment first because then that frees up that payment to attack the other one with. But, you know, and I'm going to sit down and go, okay, how much extra work can we both do to add to this $3,600? Because that $3,600 number is low. That's scary. Sure. And we've got to get that number up. And because we've got $38,000, we've got to clear here. And if you only do $1,000 a month, that's 38 months.

Sure. Yeah, that'd be hard to live on 26,000 or 2600. Laura, do you guys have retirement? No. No, look, if I would have discovered your show and been a lot smarter earlier in life, I got taken by my ex-husband quite a bit. It was a horrible marriage, and he didn't put me down. We had our own business, and so he really messed me up for even Social Security.

Okay, so that's exactly what we would do then. We would tell you to attack those two debts, pick one, attack it with a vengeance, increase your income any way you can that's reasonable. And then I'm going to add one more thing. Okay, you're new to all of this, all right? Sure. But the language that you used around the car purchase and the HELOC, you need to go revisit that place in your heart.

You made it sound like there was no other option except doing those two things. And I don't even know what you used the HELOC for. Unless it was to save one, unless it was to save someone's life, you over-dramatized it when you presented it. it to us. Yeah, well, the chimney was crumbling and the roof was falling apart. You're broke. You don't need a $19,000 debt. You figure it out next time. No more debt. Yep, no more debt. You got to stop. You can't have a big enough reason ever again to buy a car or fix a crumbling chimney, ever again. It's got to be with cash. I agree. The other part to this, my brother, my only brother, had died about four months ago. He did have life.

insurance, thank goodness. I took care of him and what needed to be done. And then out of that 25,000, I put in a CD. How much is that? Before 25,000. Should I pull that out? Yes, you ought to pull that out and pay off one of those. Which of the 19 are we going to pay off? The HELOC is 16 and a half and the car is 19. Okay, which one? What's the payments? The HELOC is 7.25 and I only pay on interest, but I also pay more, which interest runs around a hundred. Pay the car off. Pay the car off. Pay the car off rather than, okay. And then attack the helock and do that today.

But the big thing, Lori, is you have to rewrite your money script. Like when you said pull the cards out of the wallet, that was awesome. That's a rewriting your money script. I don't have to live credit cards. I don't have to use debt to fix a crumbling chimney next time either. We've got to fix that because otherwise you'll go right back in. Let me tell you something I see happen way too often. People fall behind on their bills and they wait.

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One of our favorite things is when someone sends us a note sharing how every dollar is working. Lady says, love this app. It makes it super easy to budget with my husband. We've implemented this practice since our wedding day, and we've had zero money fights. Oh, that's impressive. Because there's full transparency, and we're on the same page. Hey, guys, that's amazing. If the number one thing we fight about some money and we can solve that with the Every Dollar app, boom, boom, one less thing, as Forrest Gump said.

Go download the Every Dollar Budget app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Andrew is with us in Nashville. Hi, Andrew. How are you? Hey, Dave, how's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, so my question for you is I have this urge to go buy a new car.

I've listened to your show a lot. I know it would be very dumb to go, you know, really finance anything, especially something like $30,000 or whatever. When I'm driving a car that works, it gives me from A to B. I've been paying some personal loan debts off payments between family and one from the bank. The one from the bank was to clear my credit card debt to get rid of those. and I'm real close about $4,000 to paying those off. Good for you.

And my catch is, my catch is I could just go sell my car for about five, get rid of those payments, and then, you know, pay like, you know, $300, $400 for a new car, but then that's extra debt tacked on. And it's just something I've been struggling with. Yeah, how old are you? I just turned 30. Okay. And are you single?

Yes. What are you driving now? Now I drive a 2011 Accura to TSX. It was my parents' old car. Yeah. Okay, the hand-me-down car. What do you make a year, Andrew? So I'm a server.

It's hard for me to say, like, this is my salary because I just get paid every day. But I have my budget, and I'm able to at least pay all my bills and my debts. I mean, what do you typically take in in a month? About three. thousand. Okay. All right, cool. Well, I think your question is a little bit philosophical, as much as it is actual, you know, what to do type of a question. It's like, you know, I'm really tempted to buy a new car because I'm driving a hand-me-down car. I'm a server. I'm tired of driving a hand-me-down car. And I'm about to clear my debt, so I feel like, you know, I'm knocking

it out here. I feel like I'm, you know, I could knock that out by selling my old car and get out of debt faster in a sense, but then turn around and go back in 20, times more debt. So a couple of things come to mind. When I'm dealing with any kind of thing and I'm trying to learn discipline that I don't already have, discipline is a thing that you practice. You have to have some little wins and you practice it. And if you do it a long time, it becomes a habit.

And then you don't have to think about it anymore. It's autopilot then. Okay. And so one of the ways I changed because I had the same tendency when I was your age that you have was I had to start. One of the disciplines I said was, okay, one of the things I learned from wealthy people is wealthy people make decisions based on how it's going to feel 10 years from now. Poor people make decisions on how it's going to feel today. And so, you know, poor people go, thank God it's Friday. Oh, God, it's Monday.

and rich people involve themselves in a career or a business where they're thinking long term. So the way that would translate into your situation is you say, all right, I'm going to ask the 10-year from now version of myself if this is a good idea, and he's going to cuss me out and say it's not, right? The 10-year-old, 10-year, you said you're 26 or what did you say? 30. 30. You're 30.

So you're going to ask the 40-year-old Andrew. is buying a $30,000 car when you make $3,000 a month as a server a good idea, and the 40-year-old Andrew is going to cush you out, isn't he? I mean, you know it's stupid, but I just ask myself, in other words, is this a good long-term play? And if I gauge it, most money things that are smart hurt in the short term and are awesome in the long-term. and most money things that are dumb feel good in the moment but are dumb in the long term, which is buying this car.

It feel good right now to have a better car and be rid of the debt all in one fell swoop, but you got a bigger debt. And it feel good right now, but long term, it's dumb. And you know that. You said that. Okay. You're just asking how to process it in your brain. Yeah, and the car is always an interesting place for people, especially because it almost

becomes our identity. Like the thing that you drive makes you feel a certain way, makes other people think about you in a certain way. And so there's a deep level of humility more Andrew and wisdom to say, I'm going to drive the paid off 2011, Accura. Hand me down. Hand me down. Versus getting my ego boost a little bit in a nice car pulling into the parking lot and feeling good. But you would be the classic example of, you know, you'll look like you're doing great but then you actually open up the finances you're like oh you make in a year what that car what it costs and you can't and you couldn't afford it you know you don't own it's what they call in texas big hat no cattle yeah so there's a there's a part of that contentment piece Andrew that's so

big with winning with money long term and i guarantee you if you say to yourself you know what everything in me wants this and it makes sense why i totally get it but i can't afford i don't i can't afford it. I don't make that kind of money to go and buy that kind of car right now. So I'm going to say no to myself now. I'm going to make it a goal to buy something in the next five, six years. And then I would have a career conversation with yourself too, Andrew, to think, okay, the 40-year-old me, what do I want to be? What do I want to do? What do I want to do? Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do is amazing. And actually, if you hold on the line, Andrew, Christian will pick up and we'll get you a copy of that because there's an assessment in the back

of that book that really helps direct people from a career aspect. And that's what I would want for you, Andrew. I'd want you to be 40 killing it, paying yourself that car payment right now to save up cash for a car so that you can be doing other things with your money instead of giving your money away car payments and an asset that's, you know, an asset that's going down in value and paying interest on it, all the above. Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, just, you know, it kind of goes with a study that I read a long, long time ago when I first got on the air, and I've seen new versions of the researcher, but not in detail.

But in the study, they asked people what it felt like to delay pleasure. And what they found was this high correlation between people that were able to build wealth and those that are able to delay pleasure. And scripture says, Godliness with contentment is great gain. and that contentment causes great gain. Now, that could be great gain in your soul and peace. It actually could be in your wallet that being content keeps you out of debt.

Being content keeps you in the position to save. Being content allows you to be generous. These are all things that are precursors to building wealth. So contentment is actually probably the most powerful financial principles. for wealth building that there is. Yeah, because there will always be a newer, shinier, bigger, better thing out there. A hundred percent. And if you keep chasing it and keep chasing it, the finish line moves.

And that's where the money and identity piece is always fascinating. When you kind of start to pull that string, how much of our identity is wrapped up in what we, our income, what we have, what we spent. Like, there's so much in it. And when you eliminate all that and you just like press pause, it makes you actually deal with yourself. It makes you deal with yourself more than anything. And I think that's a, that's a healthy place to be because unhealthy people that build a lot of wealth. I saw you, I saw your post the other day and I loved it, was that if I buy this and no one ever sees it but

me, do I still buy it? Yes. And so in other words, who is it we're buying this for? And so I used to buy a lot of stuff for other people to see because I was a shallow little twerp. And I was all worried about the way, you know, you looked at the car I drove or the suit I wore or the watch I had on or whatever. And I have this fabulous benefit of having gone completely bankrupt and broke. And it burned with a hot fire, a refining fire, all of that out of me to the point that I really just don't care at all what you think now. And that's actually precursor to building wealth. If you've worked hard to keep your car running, the last thing you want is stress when you're

running the kids all over to summer activities or loading up the family for a well-earned vacation. That's why I trust Christian Brothers Automotive. Listen, most people don't worry about their car just because it's older. They worry because they don't feel confident about what's happening under the hood or who's working on it. And that kind of uncertainty can turn a simple trip into a stressful one real fast. But Christian Brothers is different. They use digital vehicle inspections so you can see what your technician sees, know what needs attention now, and what can wait, and make decisions without the pressure.

That's how you protect your time, your money, and your travel plans. And Christian Brothers stands behind their work with the nice difference warranty, three years or 36,000 miles, whichever benefits you more. So before your next trip, take care of the car that's taking care of you. Go to CBAAC.com slash Ramsey to schedule your service and get 10% off your visit. That's CBAAC.com slash Ramsey, 10% off, up to a $250 value. See stores for details. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Bill is with us in Birmingham.

Hey, Bill, how are you? Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? I need some advice on, um, on taxes as far as getting advice from a tax expert or a tax person. It seems like my tax bill keeps going up, and my income is staying the same. And so I didn't know if I needed a tax pro or just a financial advice.

Well, I guess it depends on where your money's coming from. What is your income coming from? Investments or from working? It's, well, I'm retired, and I draw about $26,000 a year, and then my wife draws a pension, but she also works part-time. And what does she make? Uh, she makes, uh, let's say, she makes, uh, about 60 a year. Okay. So you've got a $86,000 household income?

Yeah. And this year of pension of about 20. So our total is, is about 110,000. Okay. All right. I don't think in the last few years on that income that your taxes should have increased. they should have decreased. The changes in the income tax system under President Trump have been favorable to people in your situation. You should have been paying less taxes. Well, that's kind of what I thought. I have used just a mom-and-pop tax service for almost 15 or 20 years now, and they have just retired.

so I'm going to look. Yeah. If you want to know who we recommend, that's very easy. We've got endorsed local providers in the tax world, people that we have vetted, and we know that they're good, and they have the heart of a teacher. And when you sit down with them, I don't want you to just ask them to do your taxes. I want you to ask them to teach you what it is. Why is it that my taxes went up?

I don't think they should have. Would you all look at that with me? You may be able to go back and file some amended returns in the past and get some of your money back. Yeah, what was the increase, Bill, for you? Right now, we're paying annually about $11,000 a year in Texas. It doesn't sound that far off, but, and so if it increased, it didn't increase a lot, then. I mean, it may have increased $1,500 or $1,500 or something. Is that what you're saying?

Well, it's gone up. Well, I know I had to write off some stock loss, but even still, it's gone up at least $5,000 to $7,000. Or, no, I'm sorry, about $4,000 over the last. Well, I mean, I think you probably could get into your exact income and where your income's coming from and what write-offs you had. And there might have been some changes in your income sources that caused that. It could be that your tax people were off that weren't a little bit lazy and weren't watching. So having some new people look at it is not a bad thing. But as you're doing that, I want you to be learning. So when you sit down with your, when I sit down with my tax pro and I have one and I'm filling out the stuff.

I'm, you know, we're getting return in returns. I'm always asking, okay, how did we get this? Where did this come from? Why is this doing that? And I want to understand, I'm not going to be a tax pro. I don't want to learn it that much. I hate, I hate the stuff. It pisses me off every time I do it. Winston does that. Gets mad? No, gets into all the detail. Oh, he likes it. Yes. He thrives. He would. Yeah.

Oh. Yeah. But yeah, you need to understand it enough to know why this happened. And you go, oh, well, this, you know, we didn't have this tax write off on the stock loss. Or we did have that year and we didn't this year. And so, you know, you need to know what's going on and why you've got that situation. And it may just define why you're mad, but, you know, but at least you'll know what's really going on. And you know it's not the unknown is what kills you. So, yeah, go to ramsysolutions.com. Click on tax professionals.

And we've got a, you know, a list of professionals that will sit down with you with the heart of teacher and they're going to do stuff consistent with what you hear here on the air and interview them like you're hiring someone because you are and make sure you are actually that they don't sound like Charlie Brown's teacher to you. You know, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, it needs to make sense when you meet with them. You need to know something that you didn't know before you met with them. That's called me, that means they have the heart of a teacher. C.J. is in Tampa. Hi, C.J., how are you? Hey, Dave. Rachel, how are you? Better than we. deserve. What's up? So we are projected to finish step two in September, step three, and probably

November. But my question is about step five. We have a fifth grader and a seventh grader, and I'm curious if it's too late to start a traditional five to nine for them, or should we just start putting money into like a high-yield savings, or how should we handle that? No, I mean, the seventh grader will have still probably six years, right, that the money could be in the market for growth. So I would definitely say, no, it is not too late. Yeah, 529 is still a great option at that point because of just the tax advantage, everything that comes with it for college. And so there's still plenty of years for growth in it. The 529, the only benefit to it is that it grows tax-free. The growth is tax-free. So, I mean, if it grows, $10,000 and you get that tax-free instead of paying $3,000 in taxes on that $10,000 growth, then, you know, that's what it made you. It made you $3,000. And that's probably what we're talking about. It's not going to, it's not like it's going to save you $30,000. But it, you know,

it does grow tax-free. And if you're going to use it for college, then you're there. Yeah. So, but, and no, I would not use a high-yield savings account. I would use, even if you're not going to put it in a $5.29, I would use something like just an S&P 500 index fund. case or get a brokerage account with a smart vester pro and just start dumping some money in some good mutual funds and let's get that thing growing. The big thing is get it growing and then the 529 only answers the question is, is the growth taxed or not? That's the only benefit. Yeah, but in six years, obviously we can't predict the market. This year is not doing as great. But the last couple of years, I mean, if you get any great years of 20-something percent returns, you're going to

see that money grow. It's great. That's not a normal year. But we've had several 11 in a row. So, you know, if you had not been in the market for the last five years and instead been in a high-yield savings, the difference would be huge. Then we added up a few. Wasn't it like 100%? It's 100% growth in the last five years. Your money would have doubled in the last five years if you're in the market versus in an HSA, you would have made 4%. Or H.S. High-yield savings account.

So, yeah, yes, I would use a 529, but main thing is get it in some good mutual funds and get it growing. That's the main thing. Hey guys, George Camel here. Two things you should know about me. I love a good movie, and I hate overpaying for things. An angel just checked both boxes. They've got a new movie called Young Washington, the story of George Washington's early life as a soldier

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So it's just 15 bucks a month. And that membership gets you two tickets to Young Washington in theaters, along with tickets to future angel theatrical releases and access to their family-friendly streaming library. Two free movie tickets every month. I ran the numbers. The membership basically pays for itself before you even touch the popcorn. So get the deal and go see Young Washington in theaters this 4th of July

to celebrate America's 250th birthday. Sign up at angel.com slash Ramsey. That's angel.com slash Ramsey. Bob is in Houston. Hey, Bob. How are you? Better than I deserve, Dave. Good. What's up? So great to talk to both of you. A quick question. Newly married, we are baby step millionaires. We are debt-free, and we're getting ready to change our lifestyle. We want to buy a catamaran sailboat and move on to it and live on that. I was wondering if your house principles with 25% of your take home and a 15-year mortgage or less, we're hoping to pay it off in five years, if that still applies to even though a boat's a depreciating asset.

No, a boat's a toy, and no, I would pay cash for it. You got the money to buy, don't you? Sounds so fun, Bob. We're all going to keep the catamaran, or where would you? We're going to use the East Coast as our thermostat and be in the Florida and the Bahamas, November, through March, and then as it starts getting hot, start moving north, and then when it gets hot, We'll move further north. That's so fun.

Such a good life. That is so cool. I may stalk you and just show up. What is your net worth? Hey, Bob. What's your net worth? Our net worth is right about $3 million. Okay.

And what's the catamaran cost? 650. Okay. And what are you going to do with your present residence? Well, what I've learned with the marine mortgage industry is they will not give you more than $100,000 if you don't own a home because it's very difficult to have. That wasn't what I asked. I asked what you're going to do with your house.

We are going to keep it for like six months so we can get the loan, and then we are going to liquidate it once the mortgage company is satisfied that we don't have a house anymore. Why don't you just sell it and pay cash for the catamaran? Well, because the timing, and, you know, we want to get the boat this November, and we're going to, we have a kid in school until next June, and so we're going to have the boat in the house at the same time for about six months. How old are you? 52. 52. Oh, wow. I'm going to continue to keep working.

Could you just pump the brakes for six months, get the kid out of school, sell the house, and then I think the Bahamas is great in July, Bob. Well, no, then it's hurricane season. We've got to be further north than that. Oh, okay, sorry. I don't know my meteorology. It's about a six-month refit when you buy the boat to get to be a home,

where you've got to put solar panels on it and the water. And so that's going to take some time. That's where we can live in our house while we're working on the boat. You could live in anything when you're working on the boat. That is true. And it won't take six months either. Listen, you called Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruz. You knew we weren't going to tell you to borrow money on a boat.

So I'm just trying to figure out a way to help you live this. The dream is cool. I want you to live the dream. I just want you to pay for it. He had a legit reason, though, thinking this is going to be their primary home. It's not. So, I know, but that was... It's, I know, but it's not.

It's a boat. Okay. I mean, it's a catamaran, and it's good. I'm glad you're doing it, and I want you to go do it. But I just want you to sell your house and I want you to pay for it. You don't have liquid assets enough to pay for it other than their house, though. Is that right? We have about $250,000 saved up, so we're going to put quite a bit down.

That was not what I asked. You avoided my question. I said, liquid assets that are not in retirement, can you liquidate some stock or some stuff that you're trying to hold on to and just pay cash for it. No, it's all an IRA and 401K. Okay, and you can't get to it enough to pay for the boat unless you sell the house. Is that right? Correct.

Okay, because you're not 59.5, yeah. Hey, and I will just throw out this, Bob, not to be Debbie Downer on any of this, but because you guys are, I mean, you're 52, and maybe the catamaran life is the life for you, and that will forever be. But there is a good chance at, like, 65, you know, you're like, oh, wow, we may want to be home and have a home and all the things. So just be thinking of home ownership in the back of your mind at some point in your life. That that probably will be a reality. Yeah, no, we are fully planning on that. Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool, yeah, yeah, okay, perfect. And we're going to be

stocking cash away. Beautiful. Are you retiring? Are you going to continue to work from the catamaran? No, I'm going to continue to work. My wife can work remote, and I'm an airline pilot, so I'll be flying off the boat twice a month. What's your household income? 600,000. Yeah, very good. Well done, Bob. You know, we say not to be jealous of people, Bob.

Rachel's ready to sign up. Rachel wants to sign up for your life right now. I love an adventure. That sounds so fun. What an adventure. Way to go. I'm proud of you. You ought to do this, but I'm not going to tell you to borrow money to do it.

Yeah, sell the house. house and live in an apartment for six months. Yeah. I mean, just so you can cash flow at all. Not worrying about it. Airbnb or whatever. You've got the money. You make $600,000 a year. I think you can figure this out. But yeah. Part of the adventure is the relocation before you move on to the boat. You're selling the house and you're going to relocate for six months in the same area. And, you know, have an adventure. Go rent the penthouse at the four seasons. I don't care. I'd rather do that than borrow money. and so, you know, let's just pay cash for it, and then, yes, I would go do this deal. Thanks for the call. One thing about the Ramsey show, we're consistent. Mary is in Chicago. Hey, Mary, what's up?

Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So my husband and I just had to replace our entire HVAC system on the house we just bought in the fall. and that wiped out a little bit more than half of our emergency fund. Did you get a home inspection in the fall when you bought that house?

We did. We did expect to have to replace it. We knew they were old. Why didn't you save for it? You know, we thought we could get a couple more years out of it. Everything seemed to be working fine, but it could not keep up with the Chicago heat wave that we had. Okay. All right.

I'm just curious. Okay. All right. So you used your emergency fund to replace the heat and air that we knew that we knew was on its last leg when we bought the house last fall. Okay. But that's why the emergency fund is there. That's why it's there. So you cash load it.

It's great. Yeah. Okay. And then what? So now we're wondering if we should pause our retirement investing or part of it. How much is the emergency? How much did you deplete the emergency fund? How much money did you pull out?

About $20,000. And what's your household income? Our household income is about $2,000. So you could put that back pretty quick without stopping your retirement, couldn't you? Well, we run a really nitty-gritty budget. No, you don't. You make $250,000 a year. We do.

You can find $20,000. Well, I can find about $4,000 a month right now. Okay, so in five months, you've replenished it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you'll be fine. Yeah, I would do that, but I still think you can do more. I think you can do it faster.

This is an emergency. Okay, well, that's our question. Like, is it, right now we're maxing the 401K and doing somewhat of a mega backdoor as well. Okay, no, we tell, my age your home's not paid for. No, but we're trying to get to the 15% of our household income. Yeah. So the question was, do we just maybe pause the back door? If you want to, that's fine.

But I would rather you just cut some of your stupid lifestyle. and just put the emergency fund back rather than miss out on the investments. You guys bring home, what, probably $12,000 a month, Mary, take home after taxes? Take home after taxes is 18, takes home after investment and medical and everything is 13. It's 13, okay. So, I mean, $5,000. $5,000 a month puts this back in four months. $4,000 puts it back in five months.

I would do that for us, stop the investments in this situation. And in the future, when you had to get a home inspection and they say that the heating and air system is old and is likely to live long, go ahead and start planning for that because that's not really an emergency. That's really a lack of planning. And so, you know, if you buy a house, you've got a whole heating air unit on it, you got to get ready for that. You know that's coming. You accepted that when you accepted the house. And so in the future, when you see something like that, build a sinking fund, get rid of. ready for it so it doesn't sneak up on you because it really shouldn't sneak up on it.

Well, they probably thought they still had a couple of years is what she said. That's what she said, yeah. That's how I would feel. But they save nothing towards it. Well, they're doing their emergency fund and retirement and they got stuff moving and shaking, you know. Mary, you're either way. Put the emergency fund back as quick as you can, kiddo. Health insurance is confusing on purpose. You call one company. get transferred three times, sit on hold for 45 minutes, and end up more confused than when you started. That's why I recommend Health Trust Financial. They're health insurance advisors who actually get to know your situation and help you find the right coverage for your life and your budget.

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Go to health trustfinancial.com today and talk to a real person without pressure or confusion. That's health trustfinancial.com. Well, we wish we could get to every single call and question here on the show, and we can't. If you've got a money question or a question and you want an answer to your situation, head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that is built and trained only on Ramsey content. All the data in it that it's searching through to answer your question is all this show,

the books we've written, the articles we've written, it's all Ramsey. There's no Reddit mixed in there to screw up the answer. You'll get an answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. Ask your question for free at Ramsey Solutions.com at Ask Ramsey. Or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Austin is, whether Austin's in Cincinnati. Hey, Austin, how are you? Austin?

Did I hear me? Now I push the button. I missed it. Okay. There you are. What's up? How's it going on? Better than we deserve.

How can we help? Good. I just finished your book, Build a Business You Love yesterday. And I'm three years into a home repair and light remodeling business I started. And I think I'm chronically stuck in the treadmill operator face. Okay. I seem to have a hard time. If I can keep up with everything in the field, the business side falls back.

And then if I keep up with the business side, I can't keep up with everything in the field. So my question is, do you think it would be a good idea for me to specialize more in one specific targeted area and then what proper steps would be to move towards that if so? Man, you are in great shape. Congratulations. What a wonderful career feel. You're making money, aren't you? You're working your butt off, but you're making money, aren't you? Yeah, there's a lot of business.

Yeah, there's a lot of business. Good for you. Proud of you. Good stuff. Thank you. Well, as you read, there's five stages to business, and the first stage is the treadmill operator stage. We all start there, unless you start with venture capital or something, but most people start at the treadmill stage. And that's where you do everything.

You're the CEO, the chief everything officer. You do everything. I mean, you drive the nails, and you write the invoices, and you do the estimates, and you fix the flats, and you move the chairs, everything. You do everything because you're the whole thing. And at that point, there's no shame in it. that. It's kind of invigorating, actually, because you're really important because if you don't work, nothing happens. And so it's all up to me, and I can get it done, and you're knocking it out, and you're stacking some cash, and life's good. The problem is that if you don't work because you're

hurt or on vacation, you're unemployed. Right. Because you're the only producer of revenue and the only producer of the service that produces the revenue. And so in a very real sense, You just own your own job. And by the way, you're working your butt off too. Right. And you're exhausted. It's not sustainable. Yeah.

How many hours are you working now, Austin? I try to keep it a fairly – we've got an eight-month-old baby, so I try to keep a good work-life balance. So, like, I could be doing a lot more work, but I'm trying to keep the right things in the right order. Yeah. But, I mean, you're still working 60, aren't you? I have a lot of time on the phone and estimates. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like you're never fully off. You're putting in the time. That's the nature of the beast. And so I remember when we were at that stage, I would come home and collapse on the couch and say, what did you do today? And I said, I have no idea, but I did a lot of it. Right. It's, whoo, man.

All right. So the answer to the equation is, what do you do to level up to go to the next stage of business? The main thing, there's two areas. One is controlling your time. You're already been working on that because you've described it three different times while I was talking to you. So you're already out of the game on that. So managing your time and putting blocks of time, buckets of time where I do paperwork here, I do phone calls and estimates

here, I do the actual work here. And you bucket your time and you get very, very precise on, you know, on Friday mornings, I'm not doing anything. That's what I'm doing invoices, you know, or whatever the number, whatever the date is. Okay. The second thing is you have to make the most difficult hire that you're ever going to make in business, and that's the first one. Yeah. It's very emotional to hire the first person because you feel very responsible for them. It's kind of like that eight-month-old. Like, I'm responsible now.

I have to take care of this. I promise them a check, and I have to do what it takes so they get their check. There's a lot of extra pressure on then when you do that, and it's an emotional hire, the first one you hire. And the second reason is it's hard to find good people and you're not good at interviewing yet and getting the wrong. And you may hire the wrong person. And there's pressure on that. So it's very difficult, but you got to do it anyway. And then when you get them, if you get the right person and I'm more concerned about the quality of the person's character than I am their actual skills.

I'd like for them to have both. But if I have to choose, I'm going to choose character over skills. I can teach skills. I can't teach honesty. I can't teach customer enthusiasm. I can't teach caring, showing up for work on time, having a work ethic. Their daddy should have taught them that, but maybe didn't. Okay?

So I don't have got time for all that. But if they know I do those things, I can teach them how to fix the dishwasher. Mm-hmm. You know, I can teach them how to build a deck. Do you think it'd be smart to hone in on kind of one specific service? That way I can, because estimates are a nightmare for me because every single job is different. There's no, like, rhythm. I think if you'll do a little bit of accounting analysis, you'll probably find that 80% of your income is coming from about 20% of the categories.

Do you know that off the top of your head, Austin, if you were to guess what your gut says on that? It seems pretty right now I'm doing a lot of exterior painting. Is it profitable? You've got good margin. Uh, it's decent, yeah. Okay. Do you want more of it, in other words? Are you excited about doing more of it?

Not that specifically, no. Okay. Then don't do it. All right. I mean, this is your business. Hello. Don't build something you hate, man. That's the job you left that you hated.

Okay. So let's keep, let's build something you like. Yeah, is the other side of it exciting. Yeah. And so I want to make a lot of money and I want to enjoy doing what I'm doing. And that's the, what are those categories? And if that shaves off something else, shave off something else, that's fine. But that's not your problem.

Your problem is you've got to put somebody else out there in the field. And you begin to train them to where they finish your sentences. This is how we do the paint job. This is how we do the customer interaction. This is how we clean up on the job before we go home every single night so that the customer doesn't walk into a mess. This is how, whatever it is that you do that has caused, set you apart that's caused you to already be successful, you've got to teach them how to do that. That is not micromanaging.

That's training. And I had people in the early days ago, you're just a micromanager. I'm like, no, you just still suck at this. I've got to teach you how to do it. When you quit sucking, I'll quit micromanaging you. You know, you got to be good at it. You got to be freaking excellent. I'm going to put my name on it.

You got to bring it, man. That's what we're doing here. It's got my name on it. What do you mean? And the next time I come back, I want the customer to be going, yay, we're here. Not, oh, God, here they are again. You know, and so you've got to teach that. And you have to, all the things you're doing almost second nature that you learned from someone,

maybe your dad, maybe your first employer, but you, I can tell by talking to you, you know how to do the stuff I'm talking about. And so, but you've got to train that into somebody to where then there's work happening when you're not there. And the work is actually happening. and it's happening in a way that you're proud of. And the person's ROIing. And then they're going to RRI.

You're going to get a return on investment because they're doing the work and you've built their cost into the estimate. And now you've freed up some time. Now you've got something that's scalable. Until then, you just own your job. And so if you just narrow the categories, you're just going to own a different job. Narrowing the categories does not get you off the treadmill. It'll slow you down. It'll get your hours back in balance, maybe.

Maybe you're doing some stuff you don't want to do anymore. That's fine. Just cut that out. Just say, we don't offer that service anymore. But that doesn't get you off the treadmill operator stage and move you and level up to the next stage of business, which you've got to do the time management. And you've got to do the hiring and the training and the firing and the hiring and the training and the firing to get the right people in the seats. As my friend, Jim Collin says, get the right people on the bus, the wrong people off the bus, and the right people on the right seats on the right seats on the hiring. bus. If you run a business, you already know this. Bad information leads to bad decisions. And right now,

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Emma is in Montgomery, Alabama. Hi, Emma. How are you? I'm doing good. How are y'all? Better than we deserve. What's up? So I am 22. I've been married for two years, and my husband and I bought a house about two years ago. So that's the only debt we have. I am currently a veterinary. assistant, but I want to further my career and go to vet school, but it would require me taking out pretty much everything for it, which is about 250 to 300,000 for all eight years. And I just want to know if that's something that I should do, or if I should continue with where I'm comfortable.

Well, comfortable is not necessarily the issue. The issue is the $250,000 in debt. And I'm a huge fan. of the veterinary world. We've got a lot of veterinarians that are, that we coach in our entree leadership coaching program. We've got about 10,000 small businesses that we help. And we've got work with a lot of vets, and they do really, really well, most of them. And, but they're like anyone else, things come up in their lives. And so, you know, I was speaking to a lady the other day that's a medical doctor, and she's making $300,000 a year, and she's got $400,000 in med school debt, and so she was working her way through that, and then they had their first child in special needs, and she wants to stay home and stay with a special needs child.

Yeah. But she can't. Right, and that's part of the reason I want to try and grow in my career, because together our bond income is, like, right at less than $50,000. and I'd like to be able to have a family, but I'm a little scared to do that. And I know you're never fully prepared to have a family. You kind of miss the point. The point was she can't be a doctor anymore.

And so she can't pay off the $400,000 in debt because life happened to her plan. Okay. And so I'm not going to tell you to go $250,000 in debt, even though I'm a big fan of you becoming a veterinarian. Let's figure out another way to do it. There's a lot of corporate veterinarian out there today. and I wonder if some of them have scholarship programs. I wonder if some of the drug companies that you guys buy from all the time and that you sell to your resell to your customers all the time,

if any of them have a scholarship. I wonder if any of the medical machinery that you guys use, x-rays and so forth, if any of them have scholarships, because you're not a high schooler just starting this. you're a married woman with a mortgage. Right. And so I'm going to find a way to get into this. Is there any kind of a fellowship program, any kind of any way that we can work our way into this? And to try to scratch this itch, I'm not against you becoming a veterinarian.

I would never tell someone to go $250,000 in debt. Okay. There definitely would be some. I work for a corporate company now, and they've offered to pay for a technician degree. So basically like a certificate and a license. Okay. Start with that. Let's go get that first.

Well, and you said 250 over eight years. That's 30 grand a year. So I'm just curious what that plan could be. If there were some scholarships and things in place, is there ever a world where you cash flow some of this too? I know you guys are only making 50 as a combined couple. So that math probably wouldn't work right now today. But with everything combined,

because you don't have to have the 250 right up front, right? So the technician's degree, you, that's a certificate program. And how long does it take to get that? So typically it takes about two years. It's all self-paced, and I do internships and externships with the company I already work for, which eventually would be great. Why don't we self-pace it in a year?

That's exactly my goal, is I'd like to get it done in a year. How would that up your income? It would probably take us to usually, I'd probably add another $15,000 to the year. around 60 to 65. Okay. I'm going to continue growing in your career, and your career is taking care of animals, and the technician's a good first step,

and then that may lead you to the next step that we don't see sitting here today, and that may lead you to the next step, and it might be that you, you know, you go through this CERT program, and the company recognizes your talent and your enthusiasm, and they say, well, you know what, we're going to go ahead and let her do the self-paced thing

for the first two years of vet school and get that. There may be a way to do this, but that's how I'm going to figure it out because I don't borrow money, and I'm not going to tell someone to go $250,000 in debt for anything, especially student loans, even though this is a valid form of study. Sure, totally. And it's a form of study. There's a lot of risk, a lot of risk, because life happens to in the middle of it. And when you don't have that on your shoulders, there's a lot more freedom in your life to make

decisions. You get to decide. I'm sure glad I don't have it. that hanging over my head. You'll say that someday. And when you get through all of it, it's going to take some work and finagling, right? Your own budget and also what money you can bring in from other places, all the things. But at the end of the day, if you go through with the semi and you end up getting a degree, you're going to be making a great income with no payments. Like, that's the amazing part.

Cole is in Asheville, North Carolina. Hi, Cole. How are you? I'm well, sir. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm wondering at what point should my family and I consider establishing a trust? Probably never. Okay. Why would you want a trust? Well, we have one rental property. We have our primary, and we're about to have our fourth kid.

And so... You mean you and your wife, that family? Yes, yes, sir. Oh, okay. So you're thinking about risk? Yes. I would use LLCs, that's what I do. So I would drop your rentals into an LLC and I don't own anything.

I don't own a single thing. I don't even own my cars there in an LLC. You don't need to go to that extreme right now, but I got a target on my butt because I'm Dave Ramsey, right? But for rental property purposes, I drop those into an LLC tomorrow. And then you operate the rental completely standalone and you've got the corporate veil. called for risk. If somebody falls off the porch of your rental and decides to sue you, they have to sue the owner of the property, which is an LLC, and the only thing it owns is that property. They can't take anything else you got. Okay. So as my net worth increases,

you know, will it make it harder for my kids with probate and a will as opposed to a trust? No. A will is unless you've got a worth in excess of $100 million, you're probably not going to have any needs for trust. The will will suffice and take care of it. Why would you say that? I'm just curious. Well, because a trust doesn't do anything. Well, you can avoid probate, like what he was saying.

You know, you can, there's some ease to it. It takes a lot of work to move everything into the trust. Yeah, you move everything into the trust. Then you have to operate your life out of the trust, which is a pain in the butt. to the point that you'll wish you had never heard of this on the internet, which is where you heard of it. But the, you know, it's just, it's horrendous. So no one does it in the real world.

The only people that talk about are lawyers trying to sell trusts. But everybody out here in the real world, all of my friends that have 20 and 30 and $50 million net worth do not use, they do not operate their lives out of trust. They have LLCs and they have some S-Corps and they bifurcate the risks that way. but they don't put everything into a trust. I don't know why I didn't know this. You really don't like them. They're useless.

There's nothing for it. There's a time for a trust. I mean, we've got the Ramsey Children's Trust that owns some stuff, but that's an estate planning tool with our level of net worth. And there is some places for stuff like that. But the idea that if you got a $10 million net worth and a handful of real estate, you don't need a living trust.

You just need to operate out of an LLC much, much stronger, much stronger. And you've got the exact same risk protections. And the probate, avoiding probate is not that big a deal. Probate takes 10 minutes if you have a will and a properly structured series of LLCs. It's not a big deal. And most states, the probate taxes are not that high. I was going to say, the taxes and the fees. They're not that much.

They don't cost as much to set up the trust. Most cases, for most people. So it becomes this thing that people just talk about all the time, like it's some kind of a sophisticated instrument. It's just a method of holding property. It's all it is. And so you can hold the property there and a beneficiary and it goes straight outside of probate goes straight to the beneficiary. The problem, though, is you have to operate all your rental operations, your rental income, all your fixing of the heat and air.

You're paying the yard care and all that crap. Out of the trust. But that's harder than the LLC? Yeah, yeah, because you have the trustee has to sign off on everything. And you're not the trustee. You're the beneficiary. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Angela is in Idaho Falls. Hi, Angela. How are you? Hi, Dave. Thank you. Rachel. You both for taking my call. I'm excited to talk to you.

You too. How can we help? Well, my husband and I are about 10 years out from retiring, and we are unhappy with the growth of our investments with the person we're working with. And so we're shopping around, and we started talking to a company that my brother recommended. He says that he's been making 19% early. on his investments over the last few years with them. So my husband and I had a call with them yesterday, and I just don't understand what they're talking about when they say things like synthetic ownership of the S&P 500 with long-dated leap contracts, and they're doing hedge fund options as well, and volatility index.

Run away. Okay. I understand what they're talking about. Run away. Now, here's the other reason you run away. Okay. The financial world and investing at a level where you can make millions and millions of dollars is not that complicated. Okay. It's really not rocket science. And so your financial advisor, their job is not to impress you with their vocabulary to the point that you have no idea what they said. I think they're speaking German.

And, yeah. I mean, it's just, it sounds like it sounds like, it sounds like, Charlie Brown's teacher, right? Wow, wow, wow, wow, why, what did he just say? I have no idea, darling. Let's get off the phone. Yeah. And so that means you run away too because your financial person needs to have the heart of a teacher.

The way that people lose money faster than anything I've ever seen in the 35 years I've been doing this is they put money in something they don't understand because some goober with a big vocabulary in an enough. suit told them to do it. And that's when they lose their butt. Okay. So their job is to teach you. This person is not interested in doing that. This person was interested in showing you how smart they are. It will run from this arrogance. Okay. Okay. It's all over the financial world. That's why I'm so pissed off about it. Okay? Because it's because I've spent my whole life putting these concepts, putting the cookies on a shelf where everybody can reach them, and they're good cookies.

You know, it's, hey, they taste great. But you've got to be able to reach them, you know, I can't, and if you do this to people, what the guy did to you, it makes it feel like I'm not smart enough to be investing money, and you are smart enough to be investing money. You just hadn't found the right person to teach you yet. And to your point, it's really, I mean, you really could, Angela, if you wanted to, I wouldn't. I'd probably go to a financial advisor, but you could go on very,

Vanguard, Charles Swobb, anything, open up a brokerage account, go get an S&P 500 index fund, and you'd be making those returns just doing that over the last couple of years, or more, just the S&P 500. So, you know, you can do very simple investing. That's not that complicated. Yeah, let's try it. Let's try our theory right here right now. Do you know what the S&P 500 is?

Yes, I do. Okay. Tell me what it is. Well, it's a bunch of companies that have. have stocks, I guess it's the largest companies, but it's 500 companies that have stocks. Exactly. And the index is that is the most accurate measure. It's called the bellwether. It's the baseline of what the stock market, the New York Stock Exchange has done. Okay. So basically what the S&P has done is what the stock market did, because it's the largest 500

companies on there. And what they do is basically what the market's doing. Okay. The Dow Jones Industrial average is just a handful of companies, so it's not nearly as accurate at a measure of what the actual stock market's doing. Okay. Now, if you know that, and then you know that in 2023, the S&P went up 26 percent. In 2024, it went up 25 percent. In 2025, it went up 18 percent. And so far in 2026, it's up 10 percent.

Then you know where you could have gotten those rates of return by, like Rachel said, just falling off a log into an S&P 500 without a broker. You could have just, they call that. passive investing. It's not technically, but that's what they call it. And so you're not even bothering with anything. You just go buy the simplest type of mutual fund on the planet with no commissions. And you could have made those returns in the last few years. So your brother-in-law or whoever gave you the recommendation hasn't done anything super fancy to get those returns, as Rachel's point. Or he did something super complicated with these people and didn't need to.

And didn't need to. Yeah. One of the two. So I would not do business with them. for two reasons. One is I don't like what they're suggesting. And two is they couldn't explain it to you, so they lost the business. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and hit smartvestor. And the people that we vet in that world, they cannot be a smart vester pro. They cannot be on our recommended list unless they have the heart of a teacher. And unless they understand what we teach here, which is that basic investing is how most people get rich.

You don't have to do super sophisticated. All the synthetic. What you just said. Backflip, family limited partnership, synthetic bull crap, okay? You don't have to do that to get rich. You really don't. Most people just put money in good mutual funds in their 401k and they pay off their house. And that's how they get their first $5 million in net worth.

What's Charles net worth, Angela? $2 million. Good. Way to go. And let me guess. Let me guess that you got there without doing anything that had synthetic in the name. Correct. I can tell you 15 years ago.

And you helped me then. And you probably have more money than the guy on the other end of that call. Oh, well, that's a happy thought. Yep, it is. Well, Angela, and stay on the line. Christian will pick up. We'll get you a code to log in for investing essentials that you're doing, Dave, with George. Yeah.

Here in a couple of weeks. So, yeah, that's a great event just to watch at home just to kind of get some basics, too. But, yeah, you're doing great, Angela. Don't discount your own. intuition, insight, intelligence in the process. You are actually the secret sauce in your plan. You have freaking two million dollars. Hello. Hello. There we go. I mean, that's it. And, you know, what's interesting, Rachel, is that when we did the study of millionaires, 10,000 millionaires, 89% of them are first generation rich, meaning they did not become millionaires

because of inheritance. So 10,167 of them. So they didn't inherit their money. Where did they get their money. On average, the typical one had invested in their 401k and had a paid off house. That was the two big things that showed up every time. Okay. And here's what's interesting. They weren't really good at picking mutual funds. The mutual fund portfolio that the typical millionaire has is okay. It's average. They weren't that great at it. What they were great at was always putting money in it. Consistency. All the time. Every time the time the check came, the 401k had been deducted. They're

a long time. They just constant, steady, time and consistency, time and consistency. They put money in their mutual funds. That's what they were good at. And that's what made them rich. More than the return they got on the mutual fund because they had the

perfect double backflip, synthetic group. Jeez, man, what a bunch of car. Well, and the beauty of just compound interest. I mean, when you see that play out over time, the amount of money you actually end up having that is all interest and barely and not as much principle like it's it's wild mathematically when you start early and that's what she said 15 years ago they started so well done angela you're well done you're on the right track and just like you say yes yes you're good

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Jason's in Spokane, Washington. Hi, Jason. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I graduated or I didn't graduate.

I got some student debt and my wife just graduated here in summer. Tragically, last August, a year ago last August, my wife's mom died at 54 from an asthma attack and it sent, you know, the whole family into a spiral. Oh my gosh. She had been paying. Yeah, it was horrible. She had been paying my wife's student loans. And after she passed, her dad got a huge life insurance settlement from it. and said he would continue paying them.

Well, when my wife graduated, she graduated with $22,000 lessover on her student loans, and he is a drunk and has backed out of that. So now we have $22,000 extra dollars of debt. We were not expecting to pay, and we were planning on his honeymoon. Why did he decide not to pay it after he promised to pay it? He has no reason whatsoever. Can't come up with a reason. And he told her, I'm not paying for your student loans?

Yep. Man. Yeah. Yeah. We got married in, yeah, it's real sad. We got married in November and we're planning on taking our honeymoon. This November, when we were, when we had the money set aside for it, and we've got most of it set aside.

But now with $22,000 extra dollars of that we're questioning whether that's a good decision or not. So what does your wife, what was her degree in? Marketing. marketing degree. And what's she making? What's her income? She's working a part-time gig that's like 400 bucks a week, and then she just started another job that's about $4,000 a month. That's the marketing gig? No, the marketing gig's her side job. The marketing gig is only 10 hours a week, doing social media for an interior designer. Okay, so why has she not landed a position in marketing? You know, she's applied to, I don't remember the exact account now, somewhere close to 100.

it in just applying for jobs does not get jobs in America today you have to actually know somebody that works there that gets you an interview because people apply for 5,000 jobs and they get zero responses we had 15,000 applications come into Ramsey last year there's no possible way we'll even talk about interviewing all those people much less hiring them so applying doesn't get you there you've got to work a system to get hired in something I'm going to send you a copy of the book the proximity principle to get her some help getting into a position where she actually makes some money. What do you make? I am an insurance. I just started a new gig, helping stand up an agency again. It's a $25,000 a year salary plus commission. It's partly

owned by mortgage companies, so they're going to be sending their leads, but as of now, they haven't started. So hopefully $7,000 is what we were talking about a month, but, you know, I can't plan on that yet. Did you start? Just crossed my first month. What kind of insurance is this? I had property casualty, business. You're not going to be making $7,000 a month anytime soon, honey.

You know the business? Yeah, no, I've been in insurance. This is my third year in insurance. I currently own an insurance agency that I'm selling. Why are you selling? The independent side. I was the captive company I worked for is a shareholder owned and they don't treat their employees well so I moved over to the independent side Okay, that's a good move. I like that

Well, you know that you're you know P&C is as earned and it's it takes a while to build a book of business that brings in seven grand, right? Right, it's an established book of business that I'm stepping into. It's just the I thought you said you just stood up the agency. No, we're standing it up again, sorry. Again. Oh, so there's a book of business. business laying there that you're going to walk into?

Yes, sir. Oh, okay. That's different. Okay, I understand. All right, fun. Okay, so all of that to say that you guys have incomes and it's fair to say that in one year, your income will have come way up and she will have landed a marketing position and her income will have come way up.

And it's very sad that in the middle of all this tragedy with her mother that her father has lost his integrity. But what that means is that we're going to be very very. careful with him for the rest of our lives. We can love him, but it will not involve anything of any kind of a business transaction ever. Right. Because 100% of the time this guy cannot be trusted. Right.

You can still love him, and that's just dad. He's not a good dude in his integrity, but otherwise, and that's just sad. It's heartbreaking, but you can't make him do it. He should follow through on his word, obviously. It's trashy. but yeah, I'm with you. You just pay it and be done with it and put it in the rear of your mirror as fast as you possibly can.

How much have you guys gotten savings? We got a $1,000 buffer every month, $1,000 emergency fund, and then currently about $5,000 in savings. For your honeymoon? Yeah, initially. And not as big of a buffer now with the debt. Yeah, now it's going to go to the debt. Because this is the only debt the two of you have.

No, I have. Yeah, I have 40,000 in student loans, and she has 20,000. You have or had? Have. Have. Oh, okay. So you all got 62,000 now to be working with. Okay, yeah.

Correct. So, no, there's not going to be a big trip or no big honeymoon. We're going to be putting the $5,000 on the smallest debt, which is hers, and list your debt's smallest to largest and work like crazy people, and don't go out to eat and don't go on vacations. And this is a vacation, sadly. She needs to find three more of those accounts to help social, the side too, right?

Buff that up to a thousand bucks a month with her job. While she's waiting to land the better job, and again, Christian will pick up and send you a copy of that book, and hopefully that'll help her actually land something. So, Ken Coleman, that was with us for many years, wrote that book, and the proximity principle. What we have discovered is in the digital world that people sit at their computer looking for a job and they fill out applications and they consider that job hunting it's not because it does not work okay because again we hired last year at ramsie we hired about 150 people and we had 15,000 applications because people sit at their computer and fill out applications and so we basically have to

put an AI tool on them and go through them and throw now 98% of them in the trash without even looking at them. And so how would you get hired at a place like Ramsey if you were in marketing? We hired a bunch of marketers last year, her type of position. Well, the way it normally will happen is that you know someone that knows someone that works here and they at least get your application out of the pile in front of someone to look at. There's no guarantee after that. The application may suck.

You may not be qualified. We might not even call you. But at least you can get it looked at. And even better, would you at least talk to my friend's friend? Or this person that was a financial peace university coordinator for 20 years in Kansas City calls and says, hey, so-and-so that's a friend of mine just made up. Would you all look at that? It's who you know.

It is who you know. That's everywhere. For most places, it is such an advantage. Who you know not in a toxic sense, like you get a job because you knew something. somebody. That's not it. No, you get an interview. And then you get the job on your merit. And that's how it really happens in the real world today. If you just throw stacks and stacks and stacks and stacks of applications out there and call that job hunting, you're wasting your time. Don't bother because you're not going to get a job. No one gets a job that way in today's world. So folks, I mean, well, I've put in

500 applications and no one called me. Well, of course they didn't. That's what I was just talking about. Of course they didn't call you. So do something to set yourself apart in some way to at least get someone to at least laugh at you, if nothing else. But at least notice that you're breathing, you know, something. Do something like that. And don't, don't do the, don't get laughed at. But I mean, but, you know, but the idea being that get connected to a per, get connected to a person, not just a system. Filling out applications on the internet is not job hunting. It's a waste of time.

The proximity principle will help you with that. Hey, George Camel here. We often talk about how being normal sucks when it comes to your money. But guess what? Normal isn't so great when it comes to your job either. Normal is staying in a job you hate, dreading Mondays, and working for people you don't even like. Sounds familiar? Well, the good news is you can break free from normal because Ramsey Solutions is hiring.

and we refuse to settle for the ordinary. In fact, we are anything but normal, and we are proud of it. And right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. So head over to ramsysolutions.com slash careers and apply today. If your private student loans are in default, when you've fallen behind so far the loan is considered unpaid, well, why refi may be able to help you? They help borrowers in tough situations figure out low fixed rate refinancing options that actually fit your budget. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey.

That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey may not be in all states. Today's question comes from Chrissy in West Virginia. My husband and I have four daughters. When our oldest daughter got married eight years ago, we were able to contribute a modest amount towards her wedding because of our financial situation. Our second daughter is now engaged, and we are in much stronger financial position than we were back then.

Is it fair to contribute more toward her wedding than we did for our oldest daughter or should we give all of our daughters the same amount of money to keep things equal? I'm more on the equal side, but I would say eight years ago, there's a cost difference of what it cost eight years ago than today.

So I think you could probably factor in some level of inflation and all the things. In 2018, that was a different world. So I would kind of price out and just see what a similar value would be. So I'd be okay if it was a little bit more just because it's a different time. But I would not, I don't know if I would significantly. Oh, man.

You and your sister didn't spend the same. We didn't? Did you have more? You were raised in a household when we told our children that fair is where the tilt of world is. No, Sharon Ramsey is a communist, basically. when it comes to Christmas. My mother. My mother is.

She wants everything to be even. That's true. Wait, what? That's true. Yeah, y'all didn't have the same budget. Because of inflation. No. You didn't have the same budget.

Neither did your brother. None of the three of you did. It was situational. It's not a matter. It's not a matter which one kid we love more or anything like that. It's just a matter of that's what the situation was and this is what we did. That was the amount of money. We got married like 18 months, two years.

Yeah. Did your life change that drastically for two? No, it wasn't because of that. It was, she has a reason. I didn't have a reason. I just said, this is what we're doing. All right. Counseling on the air, people, right here.

Ramsey family, Ramsey family secrets are coming out. It's confession. I'm not confessing. You just love Denise Moore. No, I didn't say she got more. I just said it was different. What? Is it because our venues were different?

I said you didn't get the same amount. That's all I said. I didn't say who got more. Okay. Well, then you answer, answer Chrissy. Answer Chris. see. I would say I would be more inclined to be more... You're more like your mother. We want it to be more even. Yeah.

Yeah, I probably would. Okay. That's where I lean. But I don't have kids like I'm married or have been married, but apparently you have had three children. And I don't think you guys had the same amount in your mutual funds when you graduate from college either. But I didn't, you know... That would be fair. You know, so... Just because of growth. Yeah, well, in different investments and different investments and different... amounts going in at different times. Okay. So you would tell Chrissy, you give however your heart leads.

I don't think, I don't think it is an indication that you love your children differently if you, if the amount that goes to their wedding is different. Oh, you're backpedaling a little bit. I get it. I didn't say I love someone differently. I just said the money was different. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. This is so funny. I didn't know. I didn't know. I thought we were all pretty in the same ballpark, but apparently. I didn't say you weren't the same ballpark.

I just said it wasn't the same. That's all I said. Okay. And because I'm not worried about that. That's not what's the right thing to do for this kid given our situation? Yeah. And if you want, if you feel like it's, you know, okay, you give one 50,000 and the other one got 20,000 and you want to give, you want to help the first one that you gave 20,000

because it's substantially different, less than half, right? You want to give them a 10 or $15,000 gift or something? That's fine. That's fine. But I'm not going to sit and try to figure. you're out to the nth degree what the stupid shrimp cost at the dadgum reception. Yeah, sure. And we've got to make everything even.

No, I'm not saying you have to like nickel and dime every single thing, but an eight-year difference. Your mother might. She might. Apparently she didn't. No, she didn't on that. She wasn't in control of that. Communism only happens at Christmas time. We literally get a check for like.

The Ramsey Communist Christmas. It's like $9. You've got to be kidding. You're like, mom, you don't have to write us a $9. We're fun. She does that. You are good. You do get the exact stinking amount.

That's right. And that probably comes from her upbringing. But all right. Denise is in Seattle. Hi, Denise. How are you? That is the nine deserve days. Good.

How can we help? Well, where do I start? I've been in education for 20 years. My husband and I have been married for 18, and we have dreamed of having our our own business for a long time. We've been saving. We have paid off almost all of our debt. We still owe on our home, but we've paid off all of our cars, all of our student loans. And we, after taking your class about 10 years ago, we paid down all of our credit cards. So all that to say that we have very little debt and we have been saving for the business for a long time.

So we already signed a lease on a building. We want to open up a coffee shop bakery. We have partners, and so we're half and half. We build out alone, not including any of the equipment or the capital we need for employees, is going to cost us $183,000. dollars. That was almost all of what we had saved so far. And so in order to cover the equipment costs and is the capital that we need to open up, we decided to take out a he lock on our home. It was only 95,000. But that's still not enough. And we were looking into other types of loans.

It's harder to open up. I know. Oh, man. You've made a mess. I knew you say that. She said, don't call him. He's going to tell us not to do it. That's too late.

You've already done it. You're $300,000 in the hole. Oh, my God. How many cups of coffee is that? Before you actually make your money back. In Seattle. Like, nobody's had a coffee shop in Seattle before. This isn't you.

It's very loved, though. It's loved. You're not open. It's, I mean, the business in general, it's something we know. Apparently not. Apparently, you don't know what it costs to operate it. Yeah. Denise, if y'all keep going down this road, you're going to be half a million,

you're going to be half a million dollars into this business. Yeah. And the restaurant business? What's the stat on that? 80% are gone in five years. Right. I know. Yeah.

Yeah, but you don't act like you know. You don't feel strong. dressed about it. Borrowed $90,000 on your home. And $183,000 and another one. And savings. No, that was savings. No, that was.

Oh, you, I'm sorry. Oh, it's gone, though. For this dream that we've had, that we have had. Yeah, but you're turning your dream into a nightmare, kid. I didn't mention the fact that we partnered up on a restaurant about in 2022, and it did very well. we're only we were a minority

owner so we have had some success in the field and that is a stream of income for me and you told me it took $183,000

to build this out and then you came back looking for another 90 and then you came back looking for another batch I'd fire you for incompetence so you may know

what you're doing but I can't see it in this phone call Mm-mm. You didn't lay out your pro forma with a basic inventory list and a basic business pro forma of what it takes to get this thing opening and started cash flowing. Instead, you just keep spending money like you're in Congress and you're still not even open. Right. You're scaring me to death.

I mean, you guys are going to do what you're going to do. I don't know. I'm with your husband. I'm not sure why you called. I mean, you prefaced this, which we went through all your classes, Dave. We got out of debt. Why? So we could go back in debt and call it a dream.

Oh, baby girl. Oh, you're killing me. I'm so sorry. No, I would not have done any of this and no, I'm not going to tell you to do any of it more. And I'm sorry that I hope you can figure out a way to scratch around and get it open and get some of your money back and you don't lose all of this. Hey guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you.

You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash insurance. Ramsey Solutions.com slash insurance. Our scripture of the day, Habakkuk 2, 3,

Patience is not the same as indifference. Patience conveys the idea of someone who is tremendously strong and able to withstand all assaults. What version of scripture is that? Interesting. Ronald Reagan says heroes may not be braver than anyone else. They're just braver five minutes longer.

That's true. Buying or selling a home is a big deal. If you're thinking about doing that, You ought to have a high-octane person in your corner that you trust that knows what they're doing in the real estate business, not got their license three weeks ago and expect you to sell your house with your house with them. Don't do that. If you want to find out who we trust and you want to find a Ramsey trusted agent, you can do that for free. Ramsey trusted agents are the best out there.

Ramsey Solutions.com slash agent or click the link in the podcast. Gina is in Phoenix. Hi, Gina. How are you? Well, I'm doing great. Good. I have a question of what would Dave and Sharon do. My husband and I started a construction company at the beginning this year.

We're learning a lot. We still have a whole lot more to learn. He builds the homes. And I pay the bills. I am the bookkeeper. I request the draws. And my son, my oldest son, is helping us with the tech part. and he recently found out that I go through all my husband's emails to find contracts and bills that he's

paid and approved. And he wants to put a stop to that. And he says that I should not have any access to his emails or his passwords, even though we're co-owners. Your son is a tech nerd geek. He's not a relationship expert. That's ridiculous. of course you should have access to your husband's stuff Sharon Ramsey has 100% access to any of my technology

I have nothing in there that I'm ashamed of even your business emails anything she wants to see anywhere anytime and occasionally she does she would leave the laptop this was probably 10 15 years ago she would leave her laptop with your email just on the counter as the fam like we could all just go look at this email if we want to.

I don't have any secrets. Yes. I mean. I don't care. I don't have anything to hide. And here's another one. A few months ago, about a year ago, I put the Apple, find my iPhone thing. So, and so wherever my iPhone is, my wife can look at her iPhone and figure out where I am at any time.

Location sharing. Because I don't go anywhere that I'm ashamed of. And I put it on hers, too, because she loses her stinking iPhone about once a day. And I can find it that way. But I also know where she is. And because she forgets to tell me she has a Majan championship four doors down. And I get home and she's not there. And I'm like, where is Sharon?

So now I know where she is. But 100% of the passwords are shared. 100% of the bank accounts are shared. 100% transparency. There's no reason to hide unless you have something to hide. Why? Did he do it? Was he saying it like from a tech nerd?

He's a tech nerd. Perspective of security? or, no, no, I'm at, you said tech nerd. He said it's inappropriate. He just said I should not be messing with his emails. I don't delete anything. I just go through them. He just said that he doesn't give his wife any passwords.

He should. His boss would never, of course, but I'm like, this is a different relationship. It's not a boss. It's your husband. No, 100%. Yep. I would imagine you can get into any of Winston's. Oh, I know, Winston.

He's got 12. him we're not probably the best secure people but we have two passwords that we use basically for everything yeah well we do too yeah like we oh yeah that if you knew our password you could get into any hotel safe we were ever in instagram he can go through any dm i mean like yeah that's it's just it is what it is secrets there's no there's nothing i wouldn't show him wouldn't not want to show him so i'm trying to figure yeah anyways that that's that's the answer no yeah the answer is your son is who's inappropriate. All right.

Thank you so much. I win. You're good, Gina. You win. Absolutely. Oh, and by the way, my personal assistant can go through my emails to do what you do for your husband from a business perspective. She can love it.

Jenny, Jenny can go through my emails because I don't have anything in there that's a secret. There's no big dark cloud. I mean, there's no, there's no, tell you no attention to the men behind the curtain. There's no man behind the curtain. It just is, you know? And so she can go through there and go, hey, Dave. And John Deloney would say your phones, that you have every right to check your, your spouse's phone.

Yeah. I mean, it's all. I don't go on porn sites. So she's not going to discover that when she goes on my phone. So it's not a problem, you know. And I'm not doing stuff or going places that I'm worried about or ashamed of or saying things. And I quit putting things in emails about three lawsuits ago. So nothing goes into an email anymore.

you know, because it's discoverable. And then I get to answer for my mouth in the middle of a, in the middle of a dadgum. Dave has an attitude. No way. No way. Who knew? Well, the judge saw. No.

Yeah. The opposing counsel was questioning me about this. No. No. That's, um, Dave, do you, do you often say that? Yeah, I say that kind of crap all the time, but it just was in an email, you know. So, oh, well. Anyway, it's just that, that's the thing.

So, no, 100% transparency. And this is where people get into problems in marriages and in relationships. And when you have things to hide or when you feel like you have the right to a secret life to the side, these are my friend Stephen Mansfield wrote a book, 11 signs that a leader is going to crash. And one of them is extreme privacy. They're building a separate life to the side somewhere. They don't want anyone to see. And that sets them up and allows them then to fantasize. fantasize about going places they shouldn't go or doing things they shouldn't do, and then they do.

And because it's all secret. And that's one of the reasons you see these leaders. Well, so-and-so was discovered and they did this and this. Yeah, well, that's what happened. That's why that pastor hit the wall. There's a spiritual lesson, too, of bringing things into the light. When things are seen and exposed, like, it's there. It's there, right?

But when things are hidden off to the side, you can't be, you can't have access to this thing or that. thing. I'm going to keep it over here. Yep, it starts to get weird. Yeah, it's the same thing as hiding your target bags under the bed, you know, so my husband doesn't know about my spending, you know. Oh, yeah. And my wife doesn't know about this gun, you know, why? I mean, because you're ashamed. You know, you shouldn't done it. That's why. And there's, you know, accountability in the relationship. No, that's, that's an interesting question. But I will say, Gina, the reason I was making fun of your son was because the people I find in the tech world would have more of a, because of security, and they have this different view of privacy

than I do, especially in relationships. And so that's where your son's, that's why I was picking on him about being a nerd, because he fits that, he fits the stereotype. I've got guys working here that would do the exact same thing. They'd say the exact same thing, and they'd be wrong too. but um but you know because they're just they're techno and they're all worried about privacy and security and cyber security and you can't get your password out and you get your password every 14 seconds and you're driving me crazy i can't live my life for keeping up with

all your freaking passwords and your multi-factor logins you're killing me um so yeah it's just i can't get anything done for screwing around with this stuff but it's uh that it's the same bucket of thing where and and it also comes into this thing where we keep our money separate because we really have separate lives because we've never really completely put all in on the marriage. Yeah. I mean, it's the same mindset of people that say, well, I'm just going to, I'm going to keep my money here. And then I can do what I want to do. And I'm going to get to, yes. And I'm not, I'm not accountable to you. I'm married to you. I sleep with you, but I'm not accountable to you. It's just dumb. Yeah. And it's not that every person that has a separate checking account is doing something and more. I'm not saying that. But it's the, again, it's the intentionality. It's the motivation of, I get to do my own thing in this.

And you just break down a marriage when that is your primary motivation. Now, in the budget, yes, have your own line item. I have a Rachel line item. There's a Winston line item. You can go spend money on what you want, but it's agreed upon. It's talked about. And there's nothing shameful about it. Yeah.

Yeah. You know you're old. You know you're old when you have find my iPhone because she loses her iPhone. No, I lose mine all the time too. You might be old. Thank you, Jeff Foxworthy, right? More. I love it.

Or you're doing 18 things at once. Hey, happy 4th of July, America, 250 years, you big beautiful beast. We love you. We love you, America. Absolutely awesome. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace,

and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus. You know,