The Ramsey Show - You Have To Fight For Peace And Quit Living In Chaos

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter is my co-host today. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Sarah is in Newark, New Jersey. Hi Sarah, how are you? Hi, well my health is not great and I have to make some serious decisions about my estate,

but I have several problems and I don't know what to do and I'm desperate for advice. Okay, well I'm an expert on my, so I'll give it to you. Okay. In a few months, I'll be 82. Now I've always had some physical limitations, but I've been very independent and have managed to have fairly decent life and acquired a lot of stuff. have managed to have fairly decent life and acquired a lot of stuff. So, um, but now my health is, I've had a lot of problems. The doctors are still trying to figure out exactly what's wrong. And so I need to, I did go to a lawyer for a preliminary will, but it didn't finalize it yet. My problems are this, um,

I'm completely disorganized. I don't know where anything is and my house, if you've ever watched the TV shows about hoarders, my house looks like a hoarder's house. The difference is I'm not hoarding trash. I'm hoarding collectibles and antiques. So I have to deal with that as well. But what I really don't know what to do about is the fact that I owe back taxes, the state and federal taxes. And I'm afraid, because they haven't contacted me in years, maybe they think I'm dead I don't know I'm afraid if I start in that I'll stir up a hornet's nest so one of my questions is if I do die are my heirs liable for the the back state and federal taxes no but

your estate is okay so if instance, if you were leaving your home to one of your children, in order to keep that home, they would have to file those taxes and pay them. Alright, so should I go to a lawyer for more advice? No, I would just go to ramsaysolutions.com and click on ELP it stands for endorsed local provider for tax preparer. Okay. And you'll sit down with a professional tax person that does tax preparing. Typically what we see in your situation is unusual but typically what we see is is they'll go back about three years and file three years of tax returns and whatever those taxes are. And then from this point forward, you continue to file taxes on time.

Also, it's only three years. Yeah. Typically, that's what we call coming in out of the cold. Okay, because I probably owe maybe as much as 10 years of back taxes. Yeah, they typically, you typically don't do that. But again, I'll let you get professional tax advice, not some guy on a podcast. But that's what I have run into. And it is really important that you do that. Because let me tell you what it does. When you get this put to bed and you have a system and a plan, your anxiety level is gonna go down. Because this is riding right in your shoulder blades

right along the top of your neck. I'm so upset over this stuff. Yeah, well and you're scared. You don't know whether they're gonna come show up at your door and you know put some 82 year old woman in jail or something. I mean that's a, you have these things pop in your mind in the morning when you're waking up or just before you go to sleep at night and that's just stress. And so even in other words, once you know what the trouble looks like, it's still going to be stress relieving because at least it's defined the size of the monster and the sharpness of his claws. We know exactly what we're dealing with. And I think you're going to find it's a lot less than your imagination has led you

to believe. But the sooner you deal with it, the sooner you're going to get that sense of relief. Yes, Sarah, do you have family in the area? No, no. They live states away. They live states away. I do have a local guy, I know I've been paying him a little bit to come and help me try and deal with a lot of this stuff. Good.

That's what I was going to suggest too is, you know, when you start getting organized in one area of your life, we see this a lot with money when people start actually taking control of their money and getting that. And we've talked to people and it's everything from like their marriage has changed, they lose weight. I mean, like it's just wild how other parts of your life start to come in light. So the chaos that you're living in physically too,

my hope for you just for, yeah, I mean, you're 82. For the rest of the time you are alive, that there's a little bit more peace and sanity and your physical space is creating as much chaos as this financial space too, I could only imagine. And so I love that you're even working on that. You said you already have a guy that's helping you. I think that's right.

Yeah, my guess is you've probably got enough antiques you could sell and not miss them to pay off the taxes. Well, that's the other thing. I'm trying to straighten up enough so that I could take photographs of what I own. I've been doing this as a sideline for maybe 60 years, so I know what I've got. But just learning that I'm not liable for 10 years' worth,

because I don't even know my income at this point. I don't think you are. I don't think you are. I think you gotta go back and you gotta put together some kind of a tax return and file it. And it's a lot less, they're a lot less aggressive if you go to them rather than them coming and finding you. Have you been working Sarah or when did you stop working?

Um, well I, I never officially retired. I've always had my hand in something. I'm like an entrepreneur. So, you know, I still do stuff. So what is your net worth? I have no, I, well, okay. What's the house worth my house worth? The last time I looked, somebody looked for me on Zillow was about to, but that does not include, you said it was worth what you cut out. It's worth. What?

230,000. Okay. What do you think the antiques are worth? At least $20,000 to $30,000 I would think. And how much money do you have in your nest egg? Maybe around $60,000 saved up. Okay good. Well because I was going to say the other thing is my my other income comes from gas fracking. But if you ask me how much I get every year it it's a different amount all the time. Yes, you had some family land that's got some oil leases on it. Yeah, well it's where I live. Oh okay, okay. Cool. Yeah, you know you do have to sit down with somebody so jump on and,

I'll tell you what, Christian will pick up, I'm gonna hook you up with one of our coaches in the area and see if they can hold your hand through this, because you really need to take action on these things, because this buildup of stuff, of situations, is starting to weigh on you and We've got to get that I was doing it's her property tax too that they could come and take that I mean I Don't I mean we're talking about filing taxes, so that wouldn't be not necessarily that I'm just thinking about her home. Yeah I don't think property taxes would have gone ten years in New Jersey

They would already been there yeah, I'm guessing this is just income tax, state and federal. We just got to get you some relief, kiddo. You're going to have to address the situation and we're going to put someone in your life that's going to lovingly make you do it because you've got to do this. This is The Ramsey Show. George, I went my whole life avoiding being on the internet and now everything I do in my life, my professional life, my personal life, everything's on the internet. And so now identity theft protection means the world to me and my family. And I'm the resident techie millennial here. So I've been on the internet since before it existed and I've actually had my identity

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Hey, Say bye. What's up? Hi, Mr. Ramsey. I am in the need of your guidance and I appreciate that you're taking my call today. Okay. How can we help? So, to give you a background, I am 50 years old, have two adult children that lives with me, and have no intention of moving on out on your own. When my kids were little, my daughter, the youngest, was

four and I got divorced. So I shifted the blame on myself that I was responsible for the divorce. So I kind of, and I take responsibility for this, enabled both of them to be totally dependent on me. How old are they today? 27, 21. When they were little, I saved more than I am now. When my son turned 18, I had some receiving in his name, took out credit cards, or just all credit cards for him. And when he graduated high school, his credit school was 780. I did the same for my daughter when she turned 18, built her credit to 780, gave each of

them their credit cards, and until them just run with it Recently I decided to purchase a home. I've been waiting and waiting in the market. It's not getting any better So I figure well, I'll just go ahead and purchase anyway, whatever I have whatever the market has right now So I found a lending officer and I asked to have my name and my two children name on the loan. Why? And I got this shock of my life. Why would you put your two children on the loan? I figure if it's just me, I wouldn't get the amount based on the market, the housing market.

Okay. I'm a little bit confused because I thought you were calling me because you had enabled these children and you were wanting to stop doing pretty much. Pretty much. If you want to stop doing that, you don't put them on the loan. Okay. They need, they need to be on their own and you need to be on your own as standalone sustainable adults. Okay. So how are we going to cut them loose? What are we going to do?

I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, you do. You say in three months, you are moving out. Okay. In three months, you're going to have a job and you're going to be on your own. You're 27 years old, you're 21 years old. You're leaving.

And it sounds like that move, Seba, is more scary for you than it's going to be for them. You are so dependent upon them. I mean, it sounds like from an emotional standpoint and everything. I mean, you've put so much relational stock in them. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. standpoint and everything. I mean, you've put so much relational stock in them and your loneliness is going to be knocking at the door as they exit. And so you're going to have to deal with you really for the first time possibly. Because it sounds like there's been some avoiding and in a sense kind of medicating right with their relationship with

you and you're detaching that. So I think that this move is going to be harder for you than them. A little bit of both, because I did give them kind of like an ultimatum for the end of the year, because I wanted to. I could even put them on the loan because of how bad the credit has gotten. So I got a proof and I'm looking like, okay, do I get a... I don't know why that would be a shock. I mean, you taught these kids to borrow money and run their credit score up and then you're

shocked that they did that? I wouldn't be shocked. I think that's exactly what you taught them to do. There's no shock of your life. I mean, when you take a 17-year-old and you run up a FICO score by running up their credit card debt, and you teach them that that's how they're supposed to live, then they go live that way. That's what they're going to do. No, no, no, no, no. I built that credit off of that.

I know. By borrowing money and using credit cards. But I paid it off to built in built I know but you taught them the best way to have a quality life is beef so they're throwing this plastic around and then they Throw the plastic around so absolutely So yeah, I think you know end of the year is fine three months is fine Whatever you want to do But you need to put a set date on it and then you need to start asking yourself what must be true in my life For me to be okay emotionally when they leave and what must be true in their life for them to actually be able to eat

And not be in the homeless shelter. So we got to help them, you know between now and Christmas. We got to have a plan and The great news is is that everyone in this story gets to grow up Everyone here gets to have dignity, stand-alone adult dignity for the first time ever. And first time since you had a four-year-old for you, and it's first time for them because they don't have the dignity of being a stand-alone adult. They're stuck in their mother's mess. Yeah, and weirdly, you guys are kind of the same age financially as you continue to learn how to handle money. Because it sounds like, say, getting even just the basics principles,

the common sense principles that we talk about on this show implemented in your life is one of the first steps. So if you hold them in line, Christian's going to pick up and we'll just give you guys like three copies of Total Money Makeover. I think just starting from the basic and learning the baby steps and all three of you guys will be learning this at the same time. But that's a beautiful gift of the humility to say, kids, I did this really wrong. And the way I taught you and showed you how money works, we're going to do the opposite. The good news is you're getting ready to be a grown up on your own. The bad news is you're getting ready to be a grown up on your

own. And so, you know, that's, that's not a bad mom move. No, that's a good mom. Yes, exactly. So don't have the shame and the guilt around it. Good mom's going to say I made a mistake and I'm going to fix this. The bad news is I made a mistake. The good news is I'm going to not make a mistake anymore. Amy's in New York city. Hey Amy, what's up? Hi Dave. How are you Rachel? Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So, um, my husband is being relocated from New York city to Tennessee and we're

preparing for this big move in our life. We've got quite a bit of equity in our home now and we're looking at neighborhoods and I'm trying to figure out, would it be best for us to try to find a home where we could pay for it with little to no mortgage? So we would probably have to do some work and fix things or is it better to take out a smaller mortgage and get move, you know, our family very, very far.

How much equity are you coming out of New York City with? About $600,000. And where in Tennessee are you moving? We're going to be looking outside of Memphis. Okay. Well, suburbs of Memphis, you can buy a $600,000 home and that doesn't require repairs. Yeah. So we're looking at school districts. So we have three littles.

So based upon kind of school districts. Yeah. Call your ville. You can do $600,000 house. Can you now? Germantown and all that area? I don't know. I mean, those are very nice suburbs and I know you wanna get your kids, yeah. The median house price in America is $441,000.

That's the middle in America. Memphis would be sitting right in the middle. And so that's the median house price. Have you looked, Amy, at those houses? I mean, have you guys? Or have you just been looking online? So we've been looking online and we've been working with an agent because we have a trip booked out there in three weeks.

That's how you go. That'll tell you a lot. That's going to tell you a lot. That's going to get you there. I think you can make this work. You may be a little bit further out. It may be a different school district maybe than the one you thought, but you haven't even been there yet. So go there, drive around, figure out what's going on. The beautiful thing about Memphis is as you come east,

you know, it really, you know, out into the more rural areas at just an hour or 45 minutes outside Memphis, you get into some really cool areas. And I think the school districts are gonna be very solid. I don't think you're gonna have any issues here. You're far from an inner city experience there. And so, but you go look at it and figure it out. Yeah, and for you guys long-term, just to know. But I'm gonna have the goal of paying cash. But I mean, if you end up with an 800,000

and 200,000 dollar mortgage and you pay it off in two years It's not the end of the world But don't start with the assumption that I have to buy a fixer-upper. That's not it's not a fair assumption When you've been there yet So let's go and gather actual data and look at actual properties and look at actual neighborhoods and you know work the process You've got to get some market knowledge drive times school districts those kinds of things and when you get that it's gonna start to the answers are gonna start to come to the top and you're gonna be fine it's gonna end up being a great move for y'all This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Life can be chaotic, work can be stressful, and when your life outside of work and your

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Great, great. Great, honored to be here. Honored to have you. Where do y'all live? Fort Wayne, Indiana. Oh, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville. Honored to be here. Honored to have you. Where do y'all live? Fort Wayne, Indiana. Oh, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville.

Thank you. And how much debt have you two paid off? 600,000. Whoa! Oh my gosh. How long did this take? About seven years. Good for you.

And your range of income during that time? Started around 130 and up to 270. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a registered nurse. And I'm a CPA in corporate finance. Awesome. Very cool. So I'm going to guess seven years and 600k you might have paid off your house. That's correct. Wow. Look at that weird people. You got it. No

mortgage. Oh look how pretty. How old are you guys? I'm 33. Wow. It's a nice house. Thank you. And it's a paid for house at 33 years old. What's this house worth? About eight to 900. Cool. Oh my gosh. And I'm guessing that you also have investments. We do.

About what? So retirement, we're around 700,000 currently and have a couple hundred thousand in liquid brokerage. Yeah, so you're approaching $2 million net worth. All right, and you're 33 years old. That's pretty stinking incredible. That's amazing, y'all. Way to go.

I love weird people. Normal's broke. You guys are like millennials that are millionaires. This is so fun. I'm so proud of you. Way to go, Baby Steps Millionaires. Thank you. Thank you.

All right, so 600,000. How much of that was the house? It was, Baby Steps Millionaires. Thank you. Thank you. That's my job. All right, so $600,000, how much of that was the house? That was the house entirely. That was it? Okay, just straight up. Let's kill it. Let's kill it.

Let's kill it. Seven years. So almost $100,000 a year. Boom, boom, boom. While you live life. Yep. I mean, and sometimes living on not much. I mean, if you started at 130, I mean, you guys were.

Yeah, we picked up some steam as we progressed through our careers as well and started to add a bit more as we went, but we're pretty intense. So when we have a goal, we tend to go after it pretty hard. I can tell. Yeah. So six years ago, what started all of this then when you guys were like, we wanna pay off our house, which sounds insane to most people.

Right, so. I mean, you're in your mid 20s, you know? Correct. Wow. So I mentioned we're fairly intense, but we had a starter home very early in our marriage. So we really started our debt-free journey a couple of years into our marriage.

And we had a dream, we call it our five-year dream. And our dream was to not only pay off our starter home, but to build towards a strong down payment towards a larger home that we could have our growing family grow and just love a new home where we can spread out. So we have three little girls and they've really been our inspiration for so much of what we've done.

So sweet, oh my gosh. So they were born through this process. I don't think there's seven yet, right? That's right. So they were all through the paying off the house journey. They've been part of the journey all along. So how'd you get tied into the Ramsey stuff? So initially, one of our employers early out of college

offered your Smart Dollar program as part of the benefits package. And so that got us really very early in our marriage engaged in terms of how do we combine our finances, how do we get on the correct track. You know, so much of what has been part of our journey is again, making a goal and, you know, going after it, but also having that disciplined approach. You know, we were both athletes in college and goal-oriented people. She was the better athlete, I do have to add.

So I've been chasing her all along. But when we have a goal, we just go for it. And we tried to make as much of our investing journey and debt payoff journey as automatic as we can. And that's something that we started very early in our marriage. So we've really been all in on debt payoff and then investing into our retirement plan

just from the beginning and having that part of our natural rhythm of how we live. So it really has been following the baby steps from back in the Smart Dollar days when you were with the other employer. Exactly right. Yeah, that's right. And then plug into the podcast, I assume, and other stuff as you were alone.

Correct, that's right. So there's a lot of people on that four, five and six journey where they're throwing extra at the house because Baby Step 2, right? We talk about scorched earth, you do nothing, you live nothing and then once you hit Baby Steps four, five and six, you can kind of ease off. So I know you guys are intense people you said,

but was there any, what was the balance? We people ask us this a lot of like, okay, so how do we know, is it okay to go on vacation? Cause sometimes we're like, yes, enjoy your life while you're throwing extra at the house. How did you guys manage and balance that? We made sure to make sure our girls had what they needed first.

And we just, we followed the every dollar budget plan and we saw where our money was going. And if we had extra, we just kind of weighed, should we go on vacation? Should we put it at the mortgage? Should we kind of just, you know, made a plan that way and took it month by month and we're here now. That's amazing.

So what was the sport, Lindsay, that you were so good at? I was a softball player. Oh, okay. All right. He was baseball, so kind of. Oh, there you go. It just matched. In the same family, this.

Fun, fun stuff. Well, congratulations. Thank you. Okay, so goal-oriented, intense, you follow the Every Dollar Plan, you work together, obviously, a lot of communication, I can tell. Yep.

Because you're, I mean, you really are in sync on this, and we can even see it, for those of you that are listening rather than watching, after doing debt-free screams for all these years, we can sometimes see the body language, you know, how much you're in sync, and you guys are dialed in. There's no question about that. Like you said, laser-focused.

Is there anything else you would add to say, okay, if I wanna be out of debt, house and everything, in my 30s, and be approaching a two million dollar net worth, what's the key? What are the two things, five things, whatever that they oughta do? I think just knowing that you're gonna have to work hard make compromises Sacrifices along the way if you have that goal if you have that dream

make a plan to get there and just work hard and It pays off if your goal is worth having then it's worth the effort to put in I have a sense with you all that this that you have a system in place That I'll let that that kind of the system, once you stuck it in there, was intense. Yeah, because you said automatic. But it's automatic and all that. And then that also left you some room to have a good life. Yes.

And I mean, I don't have a sense you lived in a cave and collected limbs. No, no, not at all. We just made it a point to live below our means. We just, you know, didn't, we weren't really extravagant people. We didn't go out all the time. We were kind of boring in that sense, but we knew what we wanted and people make fun of you. Yeah. We've been made fun of being a little, little tight, but you know, the beauty of it is for the next, you know, that the rest of our lives together, we'll be able to grow and live and give.

And you know, so. How did it feel when the first month you didn't have a mortgage payment? And you were like, there's no money. There's no money to throw at anything. Like there's extra money here and there's no payment. We were kind of confused. We were like, what do we spend it on now?

It's an odd feeling, but it's a blessing. And we're excited about the future for sure. What's the first big thing you're gonna do? Well, we've been here in Tennessee. We were over in Pigeon Forge for a few days with the young ones and the young ones don't know this yet, but mom and dad are gonna take a little Caribbean trip here in the fall.

Oh! There we go. Yeah, that's what we needed. Now we're talking. I get to spend time with grandma, so that's fine. I love it. That's good. They'll love that.

They'll love that. That's so great. All right. And so, well, bring them up and let's introduce them. What are their names and ages? Rachel's right. They're cute as buttons. Nice.

So, we have Aubrey who's six and Hallie is three and then Natalie is 18 months. Oh my goodness. And that's a really good why right there. Why you would be intense, why you would be intentional, why you would make decisions to compromise on things. Because those kids right there can do anything they want to do the rest of their lives because their mom and dads are champions. Look at these two little ones, they've got their arms around each other, they're ready. They've been working on this. I love it. Very good. All right, Jaiman and Lindsay, Aubrey, Hallie and Natalie

Girls y'all ready to scream. I'm debt-free. They've been practicing. All right, here we go 600,000 paid off in seven years housing everything baby steps millionaires in their early 30s Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream three two one it down, let's hear a debt-free scream. Ready? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah!

Woo! Oh my gosh. Oh, guys, you have to understand that that middle one right there, when she is 30 years old, she's going to start to realize that the price her mom and dad paid has allowed them to become worth $30 million, $40 million. That's where they're headed. Those are the mom and dad have completely changed their family tree. They've completely changed their family tree.

And ultimately, with peace, complete peace, that money will never be a subject of stress and struggle. There's such a way to have that control. Never again. And that's the example they've set. It's perfect. It's amazing. It's just perfect. If you were gone tomorrow, would your family know where your important stuff is?

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Love your family well by leaving them clarity, not chaos. Go to knockbox.com slash Ramsey to get started. That's n-o-k-box dot com slash Ramsey. Buying or selling a home is a big deal and with all the clickbait headlines that are out there and the conflicting data and the drama, it's hard to know what's really happening. Let me tell you, any time you see that much drama on something, you need to go to facts, hard data Facts are your friends and we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand Median home prices stayed steady last month at about four hundred and forty one Thousand dollars that's a middle of house prices in America right now

And it's been going up about a thousand dollars a month. It's really not moving much Then but it's been going up about $1,000 a month. It's really not moving much. But it's not going down. The number of homes for sale hit over a million for the second month in a row. And this is the first time we've had that much inventory since 2019, but we still have more demand than inventory. So again, prices are not going down. Buyers have more options and they have negotiating power because sellers are facing more competition. That's good. The average 15-year fixed rate still under 6%. That's good. To learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramsesolutions.com slash market or click the show notes on your own podcast or YouTube and we'll

help you out. Brendan is in Boston. Hi Brendan, how are you? Well I'm good Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So for the last 11-12 years I have been working two jobs. One like a, let's call it my main job, 40 hours a week. The other was like a real side gig that ended up growing and makes roughly the same amount as the main job. So right now I make myself, not including my wife, I make around $2.15 a little. There's a commission in there, so this year it's looking like 215 and that's the two jobs combined correct okay and your wife makes what she makes

60 okay she have a two hundred and sixty five thousand dollar household income in Boston Massachusetts all right I'm with you correct yeah so I'm really looking to slow down. I've been waking up 4am, 3, 4am for years and it's getting to a point of like, all right, you know, I don't think I can do this for much longer. So we ended up saving about, we have been saving a little over a million dollars. Good for you. So at this point, the only debt we have, we never have credit card debt, we haven't had that in like 10 years,

the only debt we have is two car leases and they're relatively cheap for what we could technically afford. And then the house, which is around a tiny bit under 400 K left on the mortgage. We bought the house at six 50, six 45 actually. And it's saying it's worth nine 20, but I don't know what's, what's quality 50. Um, so I feel like we've been doing good. And to be honest,

like you know you guys know how long have you been making 265,000 this year's probably my best year last year is just under last year was like 190 when you men making the roughly this kind of money for ten years hmm I would say no no no no like the less the last four years okay you've done a great job of saving. You've not done a great job of buying cars. You bought your cars the most expensive possible way. So, the million dollars is just in a savings account?

Like a high yield savings account? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's spread throughout index funds, mutual funds, all sorts of things. Okay, so what would happen if you paid off the cars and paid off your house? We would have... 600k? Yeah, 600k. We thought about that and we talked ourself out of it. We have a 2.75 mortgage. Why? So... Why do you want to stay in debt?

Well, it is to, at least in our thought process. If you could borrow another $200,000 and put it into mutual funds and be further in debt on your house, would you do that? I wouldn't know. Then why not pay it off? It's the same thing. I know. I know.

It's like, but to me, I'm like, okay, if I put it in an index fund, let's say 8%. I've been doing this 30 years. I've never talked someone into paying off their home that called me back hating me. Ever. Ever. I mean, yeah, all right. And we've done, and here's the second piece, okay? We've done the largest study of millionaires ever done,

and you're a millionaire, you have a net worth of over a million dollars, way to go. But the number of people that are millionaires that told us the way I became a millionaire was, I borrowed on my home, or I didn't pay off my home so that I could do bigger investing, is really close to zero. The vast majority of the millionaires we interviewed said,

I got my home paid off and I used the extra cash flow to increase my investments. Right. And I had the peace of mind and I wasn't working like a stinking dog. Man, you work like a dog. You work like an animal. And you have been for a long time.

Yeah, I mean mean that's my second thing. So now let's say okay I built this, as I referred to it my main job I make about 115, the other one I make about a hundred. So I built this other thing up from absolutely nothing to... What is it? It's influencer marketing. So my friends own the company. Years ago they asked for help. They didn't know what to do. People wanted to work with them. They didn't know how. I had no clue how to do it, but I've been in sales my whole life. But I figured it out and six months I turned it into like millions and millions in revenue. Way to go. I'm so proud of you. Alright, hey listen, here's what I would do if I were you. I'm gonna solve for peace. Before, for the last decade, you were solving for income. And you did it very well, and you saved it very well. Congratulations, I'm very proud of you.

But now I'm gonna solve for peace. You've lived like no one else, now let's live like no one else. And here's how that sounds. If I woke up in your shoes, knowing what I know today, I would become very, very wealthy by using this formula. First thing I would do is I'd pay off my house and my cars. The second thing I would do is I'd hire someone and begin to train them in the influencer world so you don't have to work all the time. Yeah, I thought about that actually. And that's your side gig, right? That's the 100,000.

So quit and quit the day job. Would you quit the day job? Not yet. I'm going to grow this business to be 300K. I'm going to grow this business to a top line of 300K and then I'm going to quit the day job. But I'm also going to quit doing all the stinking work by myself. You have earned the margin to do that.

So train somebody. But he doesn't have time because he's got a 40-hour week job. This other one seems way more liquid. But there's no sense in giving up a hundred grand right now. We don't want to do that in this conversation. You can do that later. Right now give up 40 grand by or 50 grand by hiring a kid that knows more about this stuff than you anyway and put them in there and start training them how you turn this into money and show them and let them carry some of the weight of this and you don't work like a dog, but you don't have to give up the businesses and you them and let them carry some of the weight of this

and you don't work like a dog but you don't have to give up the businesses and you don't even have to give up the day job and two years from now if you grow it enough then you give up the day job yeah but right now you need to get off the treadmill you're tired yes solve for peace yes yeah and i would just be curious to keep kind of pushing on that Brendan that run a budget if you guys had no payments house cars nothing and What she's bringing in and then just one of these jobs right that you're at about 175 then No, you probably do the budget and just see I mean it just like at least frees you up to gosh to not wake up at Yeah, three four a.m. every definitely not gonna keep doing what you're doing if you keep doing what you're doing you're gonna

keep getting what you've been getting which is tired so you have worked like your butt off and and you've earned the right to bring someone in under your wing and start mentoring them you've earned the right to be debt-free because you know what your butt off that's. And it's always funny to me because it's the number one pushback we get when we tell people to take money out of your investments and pay off your house. They start talking about the spread,

I can get 8% right, and he started into all of it. And it's always telling to me, whenever we have our live events, whether we're with 1,500 to 3,000 to 4,000 people, and we will ask the question somewhere in the content of Okay, how many of you all have paid off your home and you've been doing this for three decades So in the crowd there's usually there's a good portion of people that are there And so people are raising their hands and then we always ask them

okay, leave your hand up if you regretted it and Never once in a sea of people that have done it Never once has someone kept their hand up and said, I so regretted paying off my house because the truth is, do it. Listen, if you pay it off and you hate it, you can go get a mortgage. That's what I said, you can go borrow back on your house

if you absolutely hate it. So trust me, Brendan. They'll help you do that. They'll help you do that by Friday. It'll take about 20 minutes to get you a new mortgage. I mean, if you hate being debt-free. I've just never, I've never experienced it in 30 some odd years of doing this. Yeah, hey, you're a good dude, man. You deserve a new mortgage. I mean, if you hate being debt free. I've just never, it's not, I've never experienced it in 30 some odd years of doing this.

Yeah, hey, you're a good dude, man. You deserve a little rest. These days, business as usual is anything but. Tariffs make trade policy a moving target, supply chains are squeezed, and cash flow is probably tighter than ever. So if your business can't adapt in real time, you're in a world of hurt. That's why you need NetSuite by Oracle, trusted by more than 42,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions.

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That's netsuite.com of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. Where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show. Ramsey personality, my daughter, she's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Shonda is in Chicago. Hey Shonda, how are you?

I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yes, I was, I called in to get some financial advice. Um, I'm a single parent. I have about a hundred and eighty five thousand in critical have about $185,000 in credit card debt, but it's from personal and business combined together. $195,000 in credit card debt? What the crap did you buy, Shonda? Okay, so I lost my brother in 2020, and so it was hard for me to go back to work. So I started, I also started a business and starting up the business, it started kind of slow and so I was using the money to basically pay for bills. Did the business become successful?

It did not, it's still slow. So it failed? Yes. Are you still doing it? Yes. And what kind of money does it make? Maybe $600 a month. $8,000 a month eight thousand dollars a month six hundred dollars six hundred dollars yet that's the other stuff and okay what what it what is the business it's pretty good pair and did what how do you spend money on credit repair and any money on it i mean you said, you were borrowing money to eat because you weren't making a living.

Yes. And not only that, I was investing in different things with the money as well. Like basically, I tried to do the flipping the homes and I was pulling my enough to cause to do that. So it was like I was losing money, trying to do different investments. What are you doing now? I work in security. And what do you make? 40,000. What's the most money you ever made in your life?

Any year? Um, 60,000. I have a degree in criminal justice. Okay. All right. Is this all the debt you have Shonda? Are there credit cards? Are there any student loans or car loans?

I have three loans and a car loan, yes, and I have a home. Okay. What do you owe on the car? The car, I owe about $25,000. Okay. And what do you owe on your student loans? $36,000. And all this is on top of the $185,000, Yes. Okay. So my thing was I was thinking about bankruptcy, but I was like, let me get some other, but I don't see no other way out and look for the job. That's not, I can't really do that because I have a younger daughter that is 10 and I have an older daughter that started college in August. So she wouldn't be able to help as much with my child if I did decide to go and get a second job.

So yeah. Okay. Well you have a car that you can't afford and student loans are not bankruptable. Oh yeah, I know that. Okay. So they're going to stay there no matter what happens. And I mean you can turn the car in in the bankruptcy and if you're gonna file bankruptcy please God turn the car in because it's it's just it's you make forty thousand you don't need a twenty five thousand dollar car period there's no planet that that works on. And so I remember being scared to death 35 years ago when Sharon and I lost everything, Shonda, and I was overwhelmed with the debt and the collectors calling and everything else.

And the only thing I did right in that period of time was I really wanted to dig in and figure out what I had done that set me up for this, what mistakes I made, what philosophies or things I believe that were lies. Okay? And you told me two or three different things that are internet Tik-tok get rich quick Even your even your credit repair thing was a get rich quick scheme. It's not it's not even a viable business We don't do it because it's not viable Can't make enough to pay somebody to do it here or I'd be doing it And the irony is you're doing credit repair. That's an irony. That's ridiculous. And so,

but you've fallen for these things trying to get ahead rather than developing a steady career path with your criminal justice degree and background that moves you up up up up up to where you start making some really good money. If during the time that you tried all these things that were get rich quick things, if instead you had taken that same amount of energy and poured it into your career, you'd probably be making a hundred K right now. Correct. And that's what I, that's, if you've got to go through this kind of hell, like, and I'm sorry you're there, for goodness sakes, learn the lessons from the hell, okay? And that's what Sharon and I said, if we're gonna go through this, we're gonna learn what was broken in Dave that set us up for this fall. And we looked at that and said, okay, okay, why did I fall for building a house of cards? What was driving inside of me? What was broken?

And it was a spiritual walk in my faith, my God walk that allowed me to repair the insides as we were restarting our lives after a bankruptcy. So if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to talk about selling my car and getting out of that, and I'm going to talk about what I can do in the criminal justice field to add to my income and move up in my career. And just don't pay the credit cards and don't pay the student loans for a while. And let's see if you could get your budget set up right, even if it doesn't look like

you can pay it all today. I don't see how you can pay it with where you are today. But where you are today is not your destiny. Your destiny is to make more. And so if you just don't pay them and they don't ever get around to suing you, and the student loans just stack up and the credit cards just stack up and go bad, cut them all up, get rid of the stupid car payment, get you a hooptie to get back and forth to work, and get out of this dadgum $600 car payment because you got ripped off on that thing too. I'm positive. And then just let your stuff just go bad. And then as you start making some money, you can start working, you know, pay off the student loan first.

And then start working. Well, and usually they'll settle, especially with the credit cards. Credit cards will settle for pennies on the dollar. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you could go through and settle these credit cards over the next five years and, you know, end up getting completely out of debt for $25,000 or $30,000. But you got to, that's a long way from where

you are right now. So hang on, we're going to sign you up for Financial Peace University and for every dollar our budgeting. We're going to pay for it to help you get started because I remember being scared. But you got to start aiming at something steady, steady growth. Be the tortoise, don't be the hare. You know what makes a summer party great? Good friends, cold drinks, and great food. But you know what can bring the party down? Spending way too much money to make it all happen. And that's why I get my summertime grocery hauls

at Aldi. They've got USDA choice meats, fresh organic produce, and all the stuff you need for an epic or low-key backyard barbecue without breaking the bank. There's no better feeling than good eats at low prices. So stop paying more and shop at Aldi, where they have the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you at aldi.us. That's A-L-D-I dot U-S. Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market. Our question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi.

If you're struggling with defaulted private student loans, WhyRefi offers a great solution to get you back on track for a low fixed rate that has more flexibility. Go to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Betsy in Oklahoma. A year ago I met the man of my dreams and we've been discussing marriage. This would have thrilled me earlier in our relationship, but it causes me anxiety now

because of his out of control spending. He filed bankruptcy and worked seven days a week at two different jobs to recover from it. Despite the experience, he is still spending close to $1,000 a month on stuff that he does not need, like clothes, music equipment, and hobbies that he hasn't taken up yet. He is also in therapy for this problem but makes no behavior changes. I am scared that all the work I've put in to my own life and career over the last two

decades could be impacted if it ever becomes our money like you recommend." What is a girl to do? What is a girl to do? What is a girl to do? I mean, Betsy, I think you're looking right down the scope of what your future could be. And if it gives you an anxiety now, not married to them, that's probably going to magnify once you guys get married. So I mean, it's one of those things that money fights and money problems are one of the leading causes of divorce in America.

And there's a reason why, because people get into a marriage and they cannot agree on their money and it causes so much conflict and strife that it's not even worth it anymore. And so if you are not in alignment and feel comfortable with him on this subject, then moving forward into marriage, I don't see a way that that's possible.

So I'm so sorry, Betsy, but I believe subject, then moving forward into marriage, I don't see a way that that's possible. So I'm so sorry, Betsy. But I believe that there are other great men out there that could be the man of your dreams. I know it's kind of a buzzkill in the romance world, but I just don't know if there's like a soulmate kind of thing. I think you can be attracted and be compatible with a lot of different people. And so this would just probably not end well, Betsy, from what we've seen and what studies show. So what you're saying is, is the man of your dreams, once you dug a little deeper,

is the man of your nightmares. And so, you know, the first few weeks or months of the romance were fun until we got to understand that the guy has basically got issues and he's immature and he's got problems and you're going to marry a little boy who just buys whatever he wants to buy whenever he wants to buy it. And that's a problem. It's a problem. I'm sorry.

Yeah. And it's been a year. What a girl to do. What's a problem. I'm sorry. Yeah. Oh, and it's been a year. What a girl to do. What's a girl to do? Don't be a girl. Be a woman. What's a woman to do? Shoot, I'm put up with that crap.

There you go. Dave's marriage advice 101. What I'm telling you. It's true. I mean, yeah. You think about powerful, confident, strong women. They don't put up with this kind of garbage. That's what you want, by the way.

And it's the immaturity to me. That's what it screams is that. And the idea that there's not going to be stability. Clothes, musical equipment, and hobbies that he hasn't actually taken up yet. Yeah, this is, that sounds like a 16 year old. Oh, I was gonna say my eight year old. Yeah. If you can't care.

No, she's way sharper than that. No, she's my spender though, that's my thing, is what I'm saying, is I'm like, she, you know, it sounds like a child, to the point. I'm like, it's with no consequences, is what it sounds like, except to the point. I'm like, it's with no consequences is what it sounds like. Except he did, he filed bankruptcy. And then filed, and then is in therapy, but unchanged behaviors.

Yeah. There we go. I've been helping people get margin back in their budget for over 30 years, and switching your phone plan is one of the easiest wins out there, especially with Boost Mobile. Boost gives you unlimited talk, text, and data for just $25 a month. And I'm not talking about some promo rate that goes up later. That $25 price is locked in forever.

No contracts, no headaches, and with their 30-day money back guarantee, there's no risk. So stop wasting money. Go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey today. Restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com slash Ramsey for details. John is with us. John is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, John, how are you? Good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Great. I'm a college football coach. I've been coaching for about 16 years. My wife and I have been on the plan since 2018. Fast forward seven years and we're in baby step

seven, also baby step millionaire. So we are fully on board. Congratulations. Way to go. Yep. We're fully on board. My question today centers around whether we should buy a home. I called you about three years ago and we were renters at that point. And really my worry was, hey, we move a lot as coaches. Should we buy a house or should we just stay renters? You told us to buy, you know, we're sitting here three and a half years later and we paid that starter home off.

But now, you know, we've got two little girls mama wants a new house and she wants a bigger house and Really to keep it simple. My worry is that you know, we are going into year four here at this this current job If we do move My worry is that we move and then we've got to move, you know, again really quickly. And her worry is that if we don't move, we look up, we're here for 10 years, we're still in the same three-bedroom townhome. So that's kind of the question is a philosophical one on what you think.

Well, you know, the current house is worth what? $460, $470. uh... what you think well you know the current house is worth what uh... for sixty four seventy and the uh... the upgrade houses worth what we're looking at right around a million have you got the six hundred she had to go into back into debt yes sir how much you guys have in savings drawn

uh... nothing all Everything we've got is, you know, other than our emergency fund, everything we've got is in the home equity and, you know, fire is in retirement. Okay. How much do you make a year? Together right around $500. Okay. So really in a short period of time you've done this with this fabulous income? Yes, sir.

Okay. All right. No, I would not move up in house right now. You don't have any money. And when you can save up and put a bunch of, at least half of the move up in cash, I would do it. And take a small mortgage maybe. That would fit, but I do not want 100% of your net worth

tied up in your house. Gotcha. And currently we're right around half and half, just like, you know, the studies always show. I'm sorry, where's the other half? We're 500, 450, 460 in house and we're 500 or so in retirement. Oh in retirement accounts okay. Yeah. Then it's not a hundred percent okay that's not as concerning then but I mean you have absolutely no cash to put towards this

this transactions which are telling me. and this this question is assuming that we would have You know our home equity plus cash to throw towards it. I mean obviously Let's say you're gonna move from 400 to 800 and you put 200 cash with it and took a 200 mortgage I'm probably up for that one Got you, but but right now you're just financing a hundred percent of a want upgrade. And it's not going to do with the stability. It's just got to do with the situa with the math ratios. That makes sense.

But you're philosophically you're saying the stability doesn't matter to you. No, because you can sell it in Raleigh, North Carolina. You can sell an 800800,000 house. Okay. If it's an $8 million house, we might be stuck in it. Right. Got it. Might not be able to move an $8 million in Raleigh real quick.

But $800,000, that's prime market right there. You can sell that thing in 30 seconds if you did change cities. So you can turn this over. But yeah, I think you just save for another year like maniacs with your great income. Yeah, and just know if you did take another job, like if you did worst case scenario and the fear happens, oh my gosh, we have to move.

You sell it. Well, you sell it and or if it doesn't sell right away, just go rent somewhere, so you don't have two mortgages until it sells. I mean, there's still ways to be able to do it and handle the situation, especially with that, yeah, with y'all's income. You would land somewhere and an $800,000 house will sell

until it does sell, you're a renter in the new city, if that scenario goes down. But I know I don't wanna finance 100% of an upgrade that's a want. Her desire with your household income is reasonable, but you guys just haven't executed on your plan long enough yet to be in a position to do that desire. Yeah, but in the next year or two, you guys could be there. I would probably save a couple hundred a year. Yeah, for sure. For sure. If you watch what you're doing, you guys could be there. You could save a couple hundred a year. Yeah, for sure.

For sure. If you watch what you're doing, you ought to be able to if you're making 500. And so let's talk about that. Let's talk about not doing big, crazy, wild, out of control vacations. Do small, inexpensive ones. Let's talk about other expenditures in the household that are, you know, some of them are reasonable and some of them are not. And let's talk about, let's talk about we want a house bad enough to not do some of

those things and limit the household budget. And not on beans and rice, but just being very intentional and saying, got this great income, we're going to focus it on. I mean, God forbid you live like, you're making 200 and you bank 300. I think we're doing pretty good, right? I think you can do that. Pretty good place. Dale is in Memphis. Hey Dale, what's up? This is great to talk to you. I'm really excited. I have an issue to decide whether to pull out of the market and put everything

in annuities. Oh no. Who would tell you to do that? Well, I've got two brokers. They're kind of doing a little bit. Uh, my IRA is the, I don't know if you want to give the name of that one company. And I've got a money market account with the second company. And I was commenting to my broker, Jared, at the second company that I need to start taking some money out.

And so he got on the ball. He wants my business basically. So he's come up with a plan to take everything out of company A and put it into annuities in a four-step plan, have one that matures in one year, Summit 2 and Summit 3 and Summit 4. The second guy is not a financial advisor He works for an insurance company. He's gonna be making a lot of commissions off you Dale That's what I

Know I don't know no second guys fired No, I mean he's an insurance guy he's's an insurance guy. He's not an investment broker. Okay. The reason he wants to put you in annuities is he can't sell mutual funds. He's not licensed to. Ah, I was not aware of that. Yeah, that's how I know why he's pushing annuities. Very few people push annuities in the financial planning world unless they're insurance people. Even variable annuities. Variable annuities are not

horrible, but that's not where you should be first and foremost. There's very little flexibility there. How old are you? 70. And how much money is this? Okay, in my IRA I've got $630,000. Money market's $146,000. I could give you a complete breakdown, but I don't know No, you're you don't need to be in annuities unless you're just Scared to death or something and you don't strike me is that you're just trying to figure out how this works Is what strikes me? So let's go back to your first guy and talk to them if you want another opinion You could go to Ramsey solutions comm and click on smart vester

Talk to one of our smart vester pros in the area and they will teach you why I'm Yelling no annuities. Okay Annuities are not evil. They're not bad. The variable annuities are mutual fund inside of an annuity It has some advantages, but it has a lot of flexibility issues. It can't you can't get to the money It's very difficult to get to it inside of seven years and you're 70 years old. And so if you're wanting to access the money, you want to move some of it into a one year, some of it, you don't need to do all that. If you just put it in mutual funds, you can just get to it whenever you want to. I'm 64. I've got total access

to everything. Now you're past 59 and a half. Yeah. So I'm saying any of it I want, I can just get. Tap into that Roth. Yep. And I can do whatever I want to do. I don't touch any of it. I don saying, any of it I want, I can just get. Tap into that Roth. Yep. And I can do whatever I want to do. I don't touch any of it. I don't need any of it.

But I mean, I've got complete flexibility. If I want to cash a bunch of it out and go buy a big piece of real estate, which it could happen, I might do that because I'm a real estate guy. But anyway, but no, I don't have it tied up in annuities. There's just very few times I'm going to put somebody into an annuity. The variable annuities have some good elements to them. We can talk about that later. But you don't need them, Dale. And I smell, and insurance persons will smell. Yeah, I have a certain hint to it.

You can smell it from here. Here's how it works. Each day this week has a new deal. This isn't just random stuff. It's the books, merch, and products that help keep you fired up for your goals. They give you the encouragement and hope you need. So if you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, now's the time to get tools that really work. Check back daily so you don't miss the deals. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash store today. ramsysolutions.com slash store. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show, Ramsey personality, my daughter is my co-host today. Ashley is in Baltimore, Maryland. Hi Ashley, how are you? I'm great. Thank you so much for taking my call. Me and my husband are big fans. Well, we're honored. How can we help today? So, me and my husband have been married for about 12 years. We have two beautiful children and we are on our third. Basically, we came to the terms that you're famous for saying is we're sick and tired of being in this place.

We've really buckled down. We got rid of everything we could possibly think of without it being the kids and I feel like I still don't know what I'm doing. He's working as much as he can. He has really changed his amount that he gets per month and per year. Over the past four years, he's currently looking for a new job. And basically my question is, what more can I do that's not all just going to bills and there's nothing left over? So what is your household income?

Our household income gross is about $79,000 a year. Our tax return last year was about 80. My husband is a shop foreman, so as far as overtime bonuses, things like that, it's no guarantee. Was 80 with some extra bonuses and things included or was that pretty much just standard last year? That was standard last year. Right now I have it at 79.8 per year. That's that 56 gross with just regular 40 hours and 1050 gross for 20 hours over time. That puts it at about 6650 gross per month.

Yeah. What's your house payment? We rent. We've always been renters. We've never been homeowners, unfortunately. Our rent is 2250. Okay. And how much is your car payment? Okay. And how much your car payment? We had two cars. We actually gave up one and we're down to one car. It's five 76. We owe a remaining balance of 11,520 and we will fully

own it on February 20, 20. And your full-time mom. I a full-time mom. I'm full-time mom. I was working. I was an optician at a vision center, but my pregnancy for my first trimester was horrible. I was literally puking on my breaks and in between patients and I had to leave my job. And our school, unfortunately, did did not offer childcare. It would have been almost $6,000 for three months while the kids were for summer. What other debt is there Ashley, besides the car? Just the car and obviously the car we gave up or waiting to hear back how much it will sell at auction for how much we will owe on it. I believe the balance when we did give it up was about $12,000.

So you voluntarily repaid it? Yes. I know it was horrible, but it was, I don't know what else to do versus- Yeah, because you felt like you guys couldn't make the payment? Was that the urgency of it? Exactly. We moved about two years ago into our house now because the kids were getting older. My son and daughter is eight and just,

my son just turned 11. They needed their own separate rooms. and where we lived to where my husband works, it was about an hour and a half commute there and back. In addition to going to and from all of their schools with both cars. And we said, you know what, let's get rid of the second car. Let's move closer. Let's cut everything in half. Mom won't need a car.

I'll just walk to the bus. You know, I'll grocery shop when we get off of work and we could just do this. And it was a decision that we felt like basically he was going to come home to go to work one day and the car wasn't going to be there anyways. So let's voluntarily give it up. Okay. And you guys bring up, what do you bring home a month? Not grow like after, what do you bring home a month? Not growth, like after tax?

Take home, it's $5,276 a month on average. And that's with the 40 hours plus the five hours over time. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less. So what's hard is almost half of your income is going to this rent. Yes. That's why there's no room in your budget. Yeah. Exactly. And basically, I've turned off

everything that I can turn off. You can't turn off enough stuff to have 50% of your income go into housing. You cannot afford to live there. I don't know what else to do either. You cannot afford to live there. I don't know what else you do. You cannot afford to live there. I don't know what else you do either, but you cannot afford to live there. You cannot have a house payment or rent that is 50% of your take-home pay and be anything but where you are right now, which is stressed. There's no amount of cutting that is going to make that work.

Even getting rid of that ridiculous car payment is not going to make that work. Even getting rid of that ridiculous car payment is not going to make that work. And so if you had no debt at all, it still doesn't work. There's no room in your budget. Your house for... Yeah, you should be having extra thousand dollars a month. So I don't know what the answer to the equation is. I don't know whether you're going to move from Baltimore to another city. I don't know whether he's going to change city. I don't know what you're, whether he's going to change jobs.

I don't know what the equation is, but what you're doing is not sustainable. Yeah. He's actually on his way to a job interview today because another kicker that's really stressing me out if he works for a small company and he has no benefits. We are 32 years old and he has a no 401k. I-year-old and he has no four one k i'm not worried about that you can't eat okay right now you know voluntary repo on a car that's a long way from where about four oh one k and so you know right now you've got to either

he's he's gonna have his income go up dramatically and or you guys got to move. Okay, last question. How can I move with our credit being as low as it is? You just did. You moved into a house you couldn't afford with your credit being as low. Well, we had somebody co-sign for us. That was the only way that we can do that. So is that something that we do again to be able?

No, I wouldn't do co-signing and say, you know, so what we're saying is you took a house you couldn't afford and now we just proved it because they wanted to co-sign her because the people that rented it to you knew you couldn't afford it. So they're counting on the co-signer because they looked at your budget and they shouldn't have rented to you. I wouldn't have rented to you because I don't want your problems if I'm the landlord and that's what you guys are going to be. You're going to be a problem before this is over. So I know you don't like this and I know you wish I wouldn't tell you the truth but I love you enough to tell you the truth

You cannot afford to live in that house unless his income goes up Substantially in the next three months like a lot almost double Okay, your house payment should be somewhere around a fourth of your take-home pay and especially when it's rent and So I don't know where you guys are gonna live. I don't know if it's Baltimore. I don't know where you guys are going to live. I don't know if it's Baltimore. I don't know if you're leaving the city. I don't know if he's coming to a completely different area of the country. I don't know what you're doing, but I do know that what you're doing will not work over

the next 10 years. You're going to crash and crash and crash and crash. And the stress that you feel right now is going to be a constant thing and it's because you took out too much house and stupid car payments. Those two things have got to go. Hey everybody, our summer Black Friday sale is here. Here's how it works. Each day this week has a new deal. This isn't just random stuff. It's the books, merch, and products that help keep you fired up for your goals.

They give you the encouragement and hope you need. So if you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, now's the time to get tools that really work. Check back daily so you don't miss the deals. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash store today. ramsysolutions.com slash store. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free Every Dollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. Tomorrow is George Campbell, by the way, and you get signed up for that.

I think there might be room on that one still. I'm but easier. Sign up for free at everydollar.com slash webinar. Josephine's in Tallahassee. Hi Josephine, how are you? I'm doing well, thank you. Thanks for taking my call. Sure, how can I help? So my husband and I are in disagreement about whether or not to gift one of our kids money and one of us feels like we have been generous to them financially and it's time for them to stand on our two feet and the other one of us says we have uh... much to be grateful for and we have uh... money and we shared

uh... get from the money if we can afford it neither either one of you are right. Both of you are wrong. You know why? Because neither one of you said, what's best for this kid over the next 20 years? One of you said, I've got some money, I'll just throw them lollipops. And the other one said, I don't care, they just stand on their own. Neither one of you asked the question, what's best for the kid?

Okay, what's best for the kid in this situation? Yeah, that's what I'm asking. Yeah, so we're retired, quite comfortable financially. We were, we are on baby step seven and So you've got the money in question. How much money are they asking for? Well, they're not asking. Okay, how much money are they asking for? Well they're not asking. Okay how much money are we proposing? I'm proposing $30,000. Why? What do they need $30,000 for that grown people can't go get on their own? Okay so my daughter married someone with considerable student loan debt and they have not been attacking it with gazelle intensity in part because they keep being hopeful like many young people are

that their loans would be forgiven. And so they've kind of not paying on it aggressively. And my son and they, they live, uh, uh, frugally I would say they live in a modest house they don't have any car payments my son-in-law has been um driving a beater for the last couple years and my daughter's car is starting to have some significant issues so they they have to replace their cars and they don't have the money in the bank to buy two different vehicles. They do make money.

Where's their money going? If it's not going to student loans, it's not going to cars, where's it going? Well they have two kids, so I don't know the income. You know what their income is? I think, yeah, I think their income is about $180,000. You've got to be kidding me. They make $180,000 and they're driving a couple of beaters and mommy's going to bail them out? Come on, Josephine, did you just hear that?

Well, he has significant student loans. I don't care. He's not paying on them. He's waiting on Biden. Oh wait, Biden's not president anymore. Yeah. He's not even paying down aggressively. He makes $180,000 a year and they're pissing their money away.

I... Yeah, I'm sorry, you lose the argument. Where do they live, Josephine? Where do they live? They live in Michigan. So they're not in that place where the cost of living is super high. No, they have significant discipline issues and spending issues. And giving them $30,000 is definitely giving a drunk a drink. Okay, all right. So, just mind my own business. It's not mind your own business.

It's okay to be a mom that loves. Yeah. But you don't want to be an enabler because the math that you just gave me is crazy. It's crazy. A young couple making $180,000 called me up just on the air here and said, we're driving a couple of hoopties and we're not going to pay off our student loan debt because we're waiting on the government to do it. I would, we would, we would put them on a Ramsey program called beans and rice, rice and beans, get on a budget, quit going out to eat, quit going on vacations you can't afford.

You go buy yourself a decent $10,000 car and pay cash for it. And then roll up your sleeves and clean up your dad gum student loan mess. Be a grown up. That's what they would, that's the speech they would get if they called here. Yeah, yeah, okay. And you know why I would give them that speech? Because I love them. And you love them too. The only difference you and I have is in how we manifest that. What I want to do is I want to create in them habits and systems and processes and character traits that create a sustainable life for them where

they become prosperous. That's what I want to create in them. Giving them money when they're misbehaving with money does not do that. Okay, all right. That makes total sense. That's where we are. I'm sorry I laughed so loud at you. Don't scare me! I thought you were going to tell me they made $30,000 a year or something and it caught me off guard. I know. I was. Wow. Wow. So yeah, let me tell you, the nicest people on the planet are enablers. They want

to help and the way they want to help is they just give somebody money in a situation that they don't need to. So it's the old, the old adage of you teach a man to fish and he's had he has fish for the rest of his life. If you give him a fish, he has a fish for a day. And that's what we're talking that's the difference in what we're talking about here. Yeah, and different, different scenario would be Let me tell you what I would do. Let me tell you what I would do, Josephine. You put them in financial peace university. I would and I would match them. And I would'd put them in Financial Peace University. I would.

Give them that. And I would match them. And I would match them. Oh, that's good. Yeah. You know, if you will go buy, if you will save up $5,000 for a car, I'll put $5,000 with it so you can get a $10,000 car. If you will pay down $10,000 on your student loan, I'll put $10,000 towards your student

loan. Yeah. Up to 30. I'm not going to do the whole stinking substantial. We didn't ever get the number of what substantial is. But I would do some matching to encourage the proper habits. Not to prop up and encourage the improper habits. But yeah, a matching plan might be.

And I'll tell you what, I'll give you, since I was so tough on you, I'm sorry, I'll give you Financial Peace University to give to them if you can if you could talk them into doing it if you could talk them into doing it yeah but if you guys will get in financial peace University and you'll start on a budget and you'll start limiting your spending and get control and get rid of the chaos and build a sustainable future for yourselves and for my grandbabies I'll put up money and help by matching your positive moves That's right to 30k because if the call was that's assuming your husband goes along with that Josephine because you've got it

You got a you got a piece of your house because y'all are still arguing about that too But totally totally but if you and your husband I would Sharon and I would do that because if she had called and said They make 50 they have been paying off debt like crazy, they're making progress, and one of their cars just died, and we want to come, we just want to help them. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's helping them on a path that's positive. That's right, exactly, exactly. That's not, that's not writing checks for misbehavior.

Yep, yep. Which is a drunk a drink. Yes, yes. You don't want to do that. So yeah, I want to, I want to, I want them fishing for life, not fish for a day. Yes, magnify the good. That is hard Josephine though, as a mom, if you do see, you know, they're struggling

and I could see if they have a lot of money, if Josephine and her husband are like, I can see how that is, it's the knee jerk reaction. What's hard is you also know in your heart that they're misbehaving. And that's hard too. Yes. That they're not paying on the debts.

They're not doing what they need to do. Yeah. And they make $180,000. Yeah. You. You. That one caught me off guard. I didn't see that one coming.

I got hit in the back of the head like a boomerang on that one. Oh, wow. You can't make this day up. I get it, Josephina. You can't make this day up. Wow. Yeah, that's what I would do. I would do matching and hang on, Christian will pick up and we'll set you up with Financial

Peace University if the kids want to do it. I got a feeling they don't want to do it, but... Maybe they will. This may be the life of a moment. If they want the $30,000 in match, maybe they will. That's assuming Josephine and her husband both agree on that. That's fair. Yeah. Listen, your home is your most expensive asset and now you're ready to sell, fast and for

a lot of money. But in this wackadoodle real estate market, one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner, someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and negotiate the best deal. That's where a Ramsey trusted real estate agent comes in. To find one near you go to ramsysolutions.com slash agent. That's ramsysolutions.com slash agent.

Music Financial Peace University coordinators are everyday heroes who share the hope and freedom that comes with Financial Peace University and that deserves to be celebrated. If you are a coordinator or you want to be, join us for the virtual 2025 coordinator rally on July 24th to celebrate the impact that you're making. We appreciate you. We want to celebrate you. Whether you've coordinated a class before or you want to learn what Financial Peace University is all about, you're invited.

You're going to hear from Jade Warshaw, George Campbell, Dr. John Deloney, and other special guests and we're going to give away $3,000 randomly. So register for your chance to win. Register for free at ramsysolutions.com slash rally or click the link in the show notes. On the debt free stage right here in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Darren and Stephanie are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Good Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. Where do y'all live? Odinson, Maryland. Oh fun.

Halfway between Baltimore and DC. Got you.cha welcome to Nashville all the way here to do a debt-free Scream how much debt have you paid off? 208,000 in the last four years good for you way to go and your range of income during that time 145 to 185 all right. There's that 180 thing again All right, there's that 180 thing again. The 200 paid off debt. Yeah, I know. I'm $200,000 in debt in four years. What kind of debt was this?

That was our house. You paid off your house. Yes, sir. Wow. And Maryland, what's that house worth? Uh, right now, anywhere from 370 to 380. Wow. Good for you, man.

Rowdy. I love it. Congratulations. What do y'all do for a living? I'm in Rowdy, I love it, congratulations. What do y'all do for a living? I'm in public safety. And I'm a social worker. Awesomeness, very cool. So great, you guys.

So what made you, four years ago, decide to pay off your house? How'd you get in touch with this Ramsey stuff? So I guess the story started a little earlier than that. Back in my early 20s, a friend of mine, during our small group meetings at the church actually put together a financial seminar for our young adults. At the end of that, he gave some notes and those notes were, hey, if you need some more biblical principles, please see DaveRamsey.com. Never went

on DaveRamsey.com at the time. However, back in 2020, something was going on in our country. Yeah. time. However, back in 2020, something was going on in our country and I was doing some cleaning around the house and I actually found those notes from that conference that was put together. I did go on that time. I started with the book and never turned back from there. Unbelievable. So Stephanie, he has a COVID obsession with this Ramsey stuff. He does. And you come home and go, what? Well, I was actually home too because I was teleworking full time.

Of course. So he brings it up and I said, what are you talking about? We're doing what? Like a budget and this and that. And he was like, yeah, we're just going to go for it. I'm tired of paying bills and I'm tired of paying this home and we're just going to do it. So I looked at him and I was like, I trust you. Go for it. Let's go. Wow. Yes. That's amazing.

Did y'all have other consumer debt during that time? So was it mostly just the house? So we got married in 2017. And in those first four years, we paid off about one hundred and seven thousand of other consumer debt. Oh, my debt. That was before knowing the Ramsey plan. So you already just didn't like that. Right. Yeah. So it wasn't hard to convince you. No it wasn't that. No it wasn't. That is so crazy. Okay and so then you guys had this lofty goal to pay off your house. Yeah. So it started with

reading the book. Then we went through FPU. I also ran some FPU courses as a coordinator. My wife pushed me to also do financial coach master training, which I wasn't going to do it because of the cost. And my wife told me I needed to do it. So since reading Total Money Makeover, it's just been all gas, no breaks, and trying to tell everybody that I can about it. Thank you. Literally, anyone and everyone. Oh, thank you.

We appreciate it. Please, come on. I know he's bothersome, but we like him. This is great. Anyone and everyone he sees, he's like, come on, we started this and you can do it too. We're young, we're 39 and 40 years old. So, it's, come on, our family, our siblings, our friends, you guys can do it too. Have you convinced people or are most people like, oh, okay, Darren, he's going on it?

We've convinced some and others have just continued to watch on the sidelines. Yeah, that's fair. Some of them are on the journey as well and they're doing their first three or four steps. Yeah, that's amazing you guys. That's good. Incredible. And it paid off house at 40. Yes, at 40.

How's that feel? Amazing. I asked the next month, I said, so can we get more fun money now that we don't have a mortgage? Yes! I need to go shopping, obviously. Yes!

Here, here. So what's the first, seriously, what's the first big thing you're gonna do to enjoy the money now that you've gotten out? So we have been traveling a lot, so I think that's, instead of thinking about paying the mortgage every month, it's kind of where are we going next. And that's kind of what it's been.

What's the coolest thing you've done travel lately? Well, we just went to the Final Four in April. Well, that's pretty cool. Yeah, that's our tradition, yearly vacation. Okay. I still owe her a Europe trip. Yes. Got canceled twice from COVID.

Oh, man. So that will be up next then as well as a new car. Yeah, good. Good for y'all. Well done. I'm so proud of you. And had two little ones during the time or were they? Yes, they were during the time. Okay. So part of it. Oh yeah, there they are. Sweet.

Our babies. So kind of in 2020 when that happened, we had actually just made a big dumb mistake, Dave, and I bought, we bought a new car, a brand new car. So three months later was after I got into the journey and then I kind of just kicked myself in the butt because I knew I shouldn't have done it at the time. But the zero percent kind of, you know, entices you and you kind of talk each other into it. So then after getting out of that car, then it was we're getting done with the house. And during that time, right after we got the car, that was when we found out that Stephanie was pregnant. Love it.

Love it. And it all happened all in what? Four years. So great, you guys. And we did pay off that car pretty quickly. It took us maybe five to six months to pay it off. Yeah. We were like, we're not doing this.

Come on now. Get rid of it. Get rid of it. Yeah. So we got rid of it pretty quickly. Yeah. Well, congratulations, you guys. Thank you. Yeah. Well congratulations you guys. Okay you're a master coach now and your life reflects that you've been successful both of you. What do you tell people the key

to getting out of debt is? Really it's cliche of course around here but the budget, the budget, the budget. Budget is definitely not a four-letter word despite what people act and like it is but I think really I was one of those doing the budget in my head and you know just we made enough we always paid the bills every single month but there wasn't that guide to really direct what we're doing before the month begins and then have a plan throughout the month every single day. Yeah so good. Stephanie? Yeah never give up. And listen to your partner.

If you do have a partner, keep the budget, stay consistent, and just keep going. And if you have a support system that's there to push you and cheerleaders, lean on to them. Yeah. Amen. Good job, you guys. Very proud of you. So proud. Very proud of you.

Good work. Thank you. Yeah. Get this lady a trip to Europe, dude. Yeah. She's ready and you guys have earned it. You've lived like no one else and you're 40 years old and you got a paid for house in freaking marijuana. That's a big deal. It's a big deal. Way to go. All right. Bring the kiddos up here. Let's introduce them. I want to know their names and ages. Have they been practicing any debt-free screams? Oh, yes. My son actually wrote his own song. Oh, wow! I like it.

This is Lucia. What do their shirts say? She's cute. It says, I'm also their wife, and his says, I'm their wife. I'm their wife, and I'm also their wife. Y'all are adorable. Oh my gosh. Yesterday was DJ's fourth birthday and today is Lucia's first birthday. Oh my gosh!

So close together! Yes, three years. That's crazy. Oh my gosh. That's wonderful. Oh, happy birthday kids. For her birthday we had to do this. Yay!

Well, these kids have had their whole family tree changed because mom and dad decided to work together towards a goal that was bigger than themselves. Way to go. All right, Darren and Stephanie, DJ and Lucia from Baltimore, Maryland area, 208,000 paid off in four years, making 145 to 185. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free! Yay! Three, two, one, we are the free! Yay! Woo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo! DJ's smiling, look at him. He's ready man, I love it. Congratulations you guys, we're proud of you. I'm going to go ahead and get started. Music Our scripture of the day is Ecclesiastes 10 10. If the axe is dull and its edge unsharpened, more strength is needed, but skill will bring success. Claude McDonald said, if hard work is the key to success most people would rather

pick the lock. Michael is in Detroit. Hey Michael, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Good afternoon Dave, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? Well my financial advisors come to me recommending structured notes for the portion of my savings that I won't be touching for five to 10 years. I'm retired 55, no debt, about $2 million in savings. Um, I've been told they have a downside protection, uh, up to 30% and upside greater than the S and P they could be laddered for, um, liquidity and possibly sold through exchanges.

So I get that they're complicated, but if I do my due diligence, where's the downside? It just seems too good to be true. Well, let me put it to you this way, okay? I'm 64. My net worth is hundreds of millions of dollars. net worth is hundreds of millions of dollars. The amount of money I have in structured notes is zero. When I meet with people that have net worths in excess of $10 million, $20 million, which I often do, the number of them that play with structured notes is really, really close to zero. This is an ultra high risk derivative product. It's set up to, you can ladder them, but the laddering only lowers some of the risk because

that just means if two rungs break off the ladder, that's all you lose. That's all that means. And so you can outperform the S&P simply by buying mutual funds that outperform the S&P. I do it all the time. It's not really rocket science. And so this is, I don't, I'm really confused why someone with a $2 million net worth, why a competent advisor would actually recommend something that has as much risk. I'm appalled, actually.

Can you explain what the risk is? So people, I've gotten both sides of the book, it's right there. It's mainly volatility. It's mainly volatility because it depends on what it is. I mean, there's all kinds of structured notes, but they're derivatives, which means they lay in the background and copy something else. And so you can buy a structured note that copies the S&P. You can buy a structured note that's mirrored after bonds.

But there's no point in doing all of that when you could just simply buy the S&P, or just buy a mutual fund that has a 20-year track record of outperforming the S&P, you know, or just buy a mutual fund that has a 20-year track record of outperforming the S&P. There's no reason to be in the direct background running a derivative product. And you know, the risk is just volatility and I mean, I don't think you're going to lose 100% of your money. It's just the, it's not worth it. The juice isn't worth the squeeze as far as I'm concerned. And I think it's highly inappropriate for an investment advisor with someone with only a $2 million net worth

to be suggesting that someone play with this. So I think he's questionable on his fiduciary responsibility personally. But I would get a different investment advisor is what I'm saying. I wouldn't stick with somebody that did that. This guy's a player. And are they pretty common?

No. I feel like, yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like it's not like a... I mean, how many times on this show have you had somebody ask you that question? Almost never, you know? And so, but the reason is, there was a thing, what was the year?

I guess it was when the mortgage-backed securities in 2008, when we had all that crash, derivatives. Everybody was talking about derivatives then. Everybody was derivatives, derivatives, derivatives, which is just simply a product that lays in the background and mirrors something else. It comes out of, derives from derivative. That's how the language works in other words.

And so, but it's not an actual product It's something that's trying to act like it's a product and so volatility is what when the market goes down you lose more I guess it doesn't it doesn't mirror it exactly it's mirrored on a leverage plane And so you're gonna it's just the volatility is gonna be no is there's no sense to just We don't need to do a master class on something you shouldn't do. So just, I wouldn't do it, Michael. You do what you want to do.

But the, I don't find it to be normative to be used by wealthy people. And so what I, one of my things I learned a long time ago when I went broke, I started interviewing millionaires. And then when I became a millionaire, I started interviewing billionaires. And I said, how did you do that? And then we did the largest study on millionaires that's ever been done in North America, and we got good data there on where wealth really comes from,

and it doesn't come from playing with crap like this. You just don't see it. And so, it's not Bitcoin, it's not that bad, but it's just not that good. It's not worth the trouble, the juice and worth the squeeze. It's, you know, there's too much risk for the, and volatility for the supposed questionable returns. And so, no, all of that babbling to say I wouldn't do it.

Kayla's with us in Minneapolis. Hi, Kayla. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hi Dave. Hi Rachel. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? All right. My question is should I sacrifice time with my kids to get a second job to pay off my debt? Um, the backstory to that is I was once debt free except for my home.

Thanks for your plan. And I went through a few traumatic things in my life, one of them being domestic assault. The second one was my older child attempting suicide. So through all of this, I plummeted and got back into debt. I currently owe $22,675.08 on my car, and I have a credit card for $15,440.18. What's your income, kiddo? My employment income as well as child support, I grow $78,000. And when was the last traumatic episode? A little over a year ago. Cause it's still catching in your throat. I can hear it.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. Um, and your single mom and the kids are how old? 15 and eight. Okay. And the 15 year old is the one that had some mental health struggles, right? Yep.

Yeah. No, I'd sell my car, but I'm going to be home for that 15-year-old. So that is one of the biggest conflicts I'm having with this other than the other job is I drive for my job about 50 to 60,000 miles a year and having that reliability of the vehicle is extremely important. I know that you can find reliable vehicles elsewhere too but with knowing that this is a good constant constant, steady job. I'm really having a hard time doing that. Well, I'm gonna find a good, reliable vehicle where I can get out of debt without having to work an extra job

so I can be there for a 15-year-old that attempted suicide 18 months ago. Okay. I'm not willing to trade a car for that. Okay. There's not a circumstance you can make me believe the car is worth that. Okay. There's not a circumstance you can make me believe the car is worth that. Okay.

Because I think you want to be there with her, don't you? Absolutely. But the way I've been listening to you guys, maybe too much. And I'm like, I've got to be so serious about this. I need to get it all paid out. Yeah, I want you to be furious, but I also want you to have proper priorities. And right now you've got some very fresh, open wounds in your life. If this was four years ago and the kid was stable, I'd put you to work. I'm game on that.

Okay? But, but I mean, you were talking last 12, 14 months, you've had hell in your life. And I want you to get, I want that further in the rear view mirror for you, for you're not home at all. Yeah. And you've got latchkey kids. Okay. Do you? I mean, I don't care if you want to go to work, you can choose that. I'm not going to be mad at you, but I'm trying to put myself in your shoes. What would I do?

Yeah. I definitely want to be there for him. I'm just trying to think. Yeah. Yeah. And just want to be there for him. I'm just trying to think. Yeah. Yeah. And just know that the- And you're going to have to just cut everything out of the budget in order for this to happen. I mean, in order for you to spend time with her, the trade-off is we don't go out to eat. The trade-off is we're not going on vacation. The trade-off is I'm whittling on- Are you able to stay current with everything, Kayla? What do you-

Yeah. I've never fallen behind- What do you do? ... any payments. I was afraid you were going to ask this. I'm a dealer services account Yeah, I've never I've never What do you do? I Was afraid you were gonna ask this I'm a dealer services account rep so I go from car dealership. Yeah I'm not gonna be mad at you for that. Just trying to figure out what you could do from home as your side gig Side hustle from home. Yeah while you're there and be present with the kiddos right now Yeah, let the family heal get some stability there before you go full on sacrifice mode

with this money. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.